Speaker 1: Welcome to the solid verbal home.
Speaker 2: That for me. I'm a man, I'm forty.
Speaker 3: I've heard so many players say, well, I want to
Speaker 3: be happy. You want to be happy for a day?
Speaker 1: Edith Steak is that woo woo? And Dan and Tye.
Speaker 4: Welcome back to the solid verbal Boys and girls. My
Speaker 4: name is ty Hildebrand, joining me as always over there
Speaker 4: in beautiful Chicago, Illinois, the one, the only Dan Rubinstein, Sir.
Speaker 1: How are you? I'm good.
Speaker 3: It actually has been pretty beautiful. It's been sunny, and
Speaker 3: in the sixties and seventies, we went over to the lake.
Speaker 3: It's hard for me to call it the beach, but
Speaker 3: we went over to the lake and little Man stomped
Speaker 3: around a bus, you know, did an Easter egg hunt,
Speaker 3: did all sorts of fun stuff outside, and I'm I'm
Speaker 3: doing pretty good. I'm very excited for this show. With
Speaker 3: the draft ahead, I always get very annoyed at the
Speaker 3: all the articles that come out that say or the
Speaker 3: tweets and people saying, ah see, stars don't matter. This
Speaker 3: this two star got drafted number eight overall, when obviously
Speaker 3: the math would indicate differently that you're far more likely
Speaker 3: to be drafted and drafted highly if you are a
Speaker 3: blue chip athlete, just because there are fewer of them
Speaker 3: and the percentages are in your favor that way. But
Speaker 3: I like to know individual stories at the same time,
Speaker 3: why guys get passed over as you know high school recruits,
Speaker 3: and what is behind the tape and the numbers and
Speaker 3: the history of these guys as recruits. I'm fascinated by
Speaker 3: all of this because, as I'm sure Brandon will point out,
Speaker 3: if NFL gms and scouts were in charge of vetting
Speaker 3: all actual important positions in life, we'd be living in
Speaker 3: a much better way.
Speaker 1: Well, they do their homework.
Speaker 4: They do their homework because it's an investment in their future,
Speaker 4: especially if you're picking high up in the draft. It
Speaker 4: really does have a domino effect. So we wanted to
Speaker 4: bring Brandon on this is Our Like Before They were
Speaker 4: Stars kind of show, because Brandon's evaluated all these kids.
Speaker 4: Perhaps he can give us a little bit of insight
Speaker 4: into their college career as we saw it as fans,
Speaker 4: what he projects forward into their NFL career. It is
Speaker 4: the month of April now, and as we forge ahead,
Speaker 4: there's going to be a lot of talk in football
Speaker 4: circles about the NFL Draft. That's just the way it is,
Speaker 4: whether you're an NFL fan or not. There is a
Speaker 4: connection into college football, and this is something that I
Speaker 4: know you and I have seen over the last couple
Speaker 4: of years, I think increasingly so as the draft has
Speaker 4: become more prominent. But there are people college football fans
Speaker 4: maybe don't have any bent towards the NFL who like
Speaker 4: to follow along, like to look at mock drafts like
Speaker 4: the enter pools, because there is that college football tie
Speaker 4: in some of our favorite players moving on getting to
Speaker 4: that next level. One of the questions I know we're
Speaker 4: going to ask him that you have for Brandon is
Speaker 4: who you're rooting for? Like, this is a fan as
Speaker 4: somebody who's rated these guys out, Who are you rooting
Speaker 4: He's been around them, he's been around them, all of them.
Speaker 4: Who are you rooting for just on a personal human
Speaker 4: level to succeed at the next level more so than
Speaker 4: maybe some others given your affiliation. So yeah, he definitely
Speaker 4: brings a unique insight that I don't think we've ever
Speaker 4: fully tapped into in all the years that we've been
Speaker 4: doing this show. We're going to bring him on here
Speaker 4: momentarily to talk about some of these prospects and the
Speaker 4: NFL Draft. Don't forget follow along on social media if
Speaker 4: you haven't already, follow along the solid verbal on your
Speaker 4: podcasting app of choice and wink wink, nudge nudge going
Speaker 4: out to verbalers dot com. That is our Patreon. That's
Speaker 4: why we're doing some bonus stuff. We've got an off
Speaker 4: topic Q and a show coming up pretty soon. I
Speaker 4: have to check the calendar exactly when that is. But
Speaker 4: that has been a big hit thus far in this
Speaker 4: year off season, some of those off topic shows that
Speaker 4: we've done. Always excited to do the next one with you.
Speaker 3: Because we had talked about doing kids sports movies from
Speaker 3: the nineties. Is that a preference? Or is kids game
Speaker 3: shows from the nineties? Oh like Nickelodeon, nick Arcade and
Speaker 3: Legend Temple. I you know what, I desperately you can
Speaker 3: make an executive decision here.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I want to.
Speaker 4: I want to take it in from the verbowler at
Speaker 4: soliverable at gmail dot com, reach out in social or
Speaker 4: through Patreon. I desperately wanted to go on where in
Speaker 4: the world is Carmen san Diego? Desperately desperately that show
Speaker 4: so much desperately, and I can speak to it first person.
Speaker 1: Going on a game show as.
Speaker 3: A kid, So a couple game shows as a kid too,
Speaker 3: as a legitimate kid. Yeah, legitimate kid, right, okay, legitimate kid.
Speaker 3: Brandon Hoffman, National recruiting editor from twenty four to seven,
Speaker 3: Sports stopping on by. Let's have a listen, all right,
Speaker 3: Dan joining us Now we have them on a couple
Speaker 3: times a year.
Speaker 4: Frankly, it's not enough. It's our friend, Brandan Hoffman from
Speaker 4: twenty four to seven and tour a high school time
Speaker 4: tour a high school. Usually we bring you on, Brandon
Speaker 4: to talk about all things recruiting. This show is isn't
Speaker 4: too far of a departure from that. But obviously with
Speaker 4: the NFL Draft coming up, there are a lot of
Speaker 4: names that you see in your mock drafts, some guys
Speaker 4: that maybe you aren't familiar with. And Dan and I
Speaker 4: had this concept, like, what were some of these guys
Speaker 4: like in high school, you know, before they were stars?
Speaker 4: What kind of I don't know, foreshadowing is out there.
Speaker 4: Maybe that you saw that some of the others out
Speaker 4: there are doing mock drafts didn't have access to so
Speaker 4: we thought we'd bring you on here again. The month
Speaker 4: of April is like all about the NFL mock drafts,
Speaker 4: and clearly there's a tie in with college football there
Speaker 4: as well. So we're excited to talk with you. How
Speaker 4: are you though, before we get any further, what are
Speaker 4: you doing with yourself in this yere early part of April.
Speaker 2: You know, it's a unique kind of year for me,
Speaker 2: as it is in a normal spring, there's a lot
Speaker 2: of camps, seven on seven tournaments, showcases to yodu, but
Speaker 2: now I get the addeds onus of having high school
Speaker 2: football games up and around the West Coast in California
Speaker 2: and Oregon and Washington in actual seasons going on. So
Speaker 2: I've had about three weekends or I've went to three
Speaker 2: or four one weekend with the five high school games
Speaker 2: over the span of three days, all while sandwiching in
Speaker 2: a Arizona for the underarmer camp. So it's kind of
Speaker 2: that unique blend of you know, the fall and the
Speaker 2: spring all happening at once.
Speaker 5: But hey, it's good. I waited a long time to
Speaker 5: watch high sea football and I'm finally geting that opportunity
Speaker 5: to do it.
Speaker 4: So one thing I wanted to always ask you as
Speaker 4: it relates to NFL mock drafts. Do people consult with
Speaker 4: you before putting their round by round things together? Or
Speaker 4: that's my point exactly, But I'm wondering, like to what
Speaker 4: end do people hit you up and be like, yo, Brandon,
Speaker 4: what do we know about this guy?
Speaker 2: To be completely frank with you, I will have talked
Speaker 2: to a number of NFL agents and mostly regional scouts,
Speaker 2: not necessarily the director of scouting, but a guy who
Speaker 2: may be the area scout for you know, an AFC
Speaker 2: Central team might reach out to me, or an area
Speaker 2: scout for an NFC team might reach out to me,
Speaker 2: and mostly just learn about the player that they're looking
Speaker 2: for and what his background was like as a high
Speaker 2: school player, what was his you know what was not
Speaker 2: his charge? But like what was the company he kept?
Speaker 2: You know who? What did his high school coaches think?
Speaker 2: What did you think him as a high schooler? What
Speaker 2: were the people that were around him? Like? And I
Speaker 2: mean when people say that NFL front offices do their
Speaker 2: homework on potential drafts draft they're lying. I mean it
Speaker 2: is if you're going to call a slappy like me
Speaker 2: who hasn't deublet some of these guys in five six years.
Speaker 2: You know, they really do want to make sure that
Speaker 2: no stone is left unturned. And I'll talk to another
Speaker 2: of them after a pro day. You know, there's been
Speaker 2: a couple of proteins I've gone to in years past
Speaker 2: and I'll have an area of Scots constany and say, hey,
Speaker 2: here's I never get be called after. I want to
Speaker 2: talk about those sort of guys, plus the four guys
Speaker 2: at this school. So it happens all the time, but
Speaker 2: it's mostly just kind of a union before where they
Speaker 2: became a college process.
Speaker 5: What'd you think of them then? Well, you know, how
Speaker 5: were their parents.
Speaker 2: How were their coaches, how were their trainers? Blah blah blah,
Speaker 2: Just to give them any kind of insight that they
Speaker 2: think they can take back to the war room and
Speaker 2: make the right pickoff.
Speaker 4: The follow up question then, is based on that advice
Speaker 4: that you've given out in the past, as you've seen
Speaker 4: some of these guys go on into the league and
Speaker 4: try to make their mark. How accurate do you feel
Speaker 4: your advice has been.
Speaker 5: I see my advice is always accurate.
Speaker 2: The NFL team it up all the time.
Speaker 1: Correct, good answer, good answer.
Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you. But you know, but I will
Speaker 2: say that it is the one time of year where
Speaker 2: when people say stars don't matter and this and that,
Speaker 2: and you know, this guy was a two star at
Speaker 2: every lect. So the past progressive tweets about, oh well.
Speaker 5: JJ Watt was a two star warll.
Speaker 2: Jj Watt was also a walk on and one hundred
Speaker 2: and fifteen schools missed out on him when he was
Speaker 2: a high schooler. And the same thing with Aaron Rodgers.
Speaker 2: General managers screw up the NFL dress all the time.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm a Cleveland Browns. I watched it happen
Speaker 2: for about thirty seven straight years. And it's amazing how
Speaker 2: the mons draft analysts can get a free pass, but
Speaker 2: the folks that are in charge of stars and ratings don't.
Speaker 2: When NFL games are screwing this thing up. Some of
Speaker 2: these NFL games can screw up a glass of water.
Speaker 2: And so it's fascinating that all the intel that they have,
Speaker 2: all the information they have, they still can make bad
Speaker 2: decisions in bad and drafting.
Speaker 3: One of the fascinating things because we do get those stories.
Speaker 3: We do get those stories where you know, JJ Watt
Speaker 3: was a two star tight end at Central Michigan and
Speaker 3: you know, became what he became at Wisconsin when he
Speaker 3: moved over to defense. And usually there's context to why
Speaker 3: a recruit is rated the way they are be it
Speaker 3: like they have a very late weight gain, or they
Speaker 3: shoot up their growth spurt, happened super late in high
Speaker 3: school or junior college, or they're hurt this year.
Speaker 1: What is the.
Speaker 3: Percentage of time that you would say you and the
Speaker 3: twenty four to seven whatever ESPN rival community just full on,
Speaker 3: flat out miss on a guy. And how much of
Speaker 3: it it is like circumstantial, Like we didn't think he
Speaker 3: would qualify. He was five seven as a junior, and
Speaker 3: then he was six too as a senior. Like how
Speaker 3: much is it? How much is explained away with easy context.
Speaker 2: I mean, I would say that more and more, we're
Speaker 2: becoming much more accurate. We're having much better hits and
Speaker 2: what we're seeing as high schoolers and then projecting three
Speaker 2: or four years down the line. But you're gonna have
Speaker 2: guys that through the cracks. You're gonna have situations, you know,
Speaker 2: and I've talked about this one over the last year.
Speaker 5: You know, Justin Herbert is a great example.
Speaker 2: You know, when I was on lead his senior year
Speaker 2: in high school, dealing with my daughter's illness, So I
Speaker 2: never got.
Speaker 5: To see him play his senior year.
Speaker 2: And you know, some of the biggest ls that I
Speaker 2: took in rankings happened in that twenty and sixteen recruiting
Speaker 2: class with Taylor rep with Justin Herbert, with you know,
Speaker 2: guys like Evan Weaver, and you know, there's situations like that,
Speaker 2: you just don't get eyes on these guys. You don't
Speaker 2: see him at anyth In the case of Herbert, you know,
Speaker 2: he broke his leadi as a junior, he didn't do
Speaker 2: a lot of camps, he didn't do seven on seven,
Speaker 2: So it was just kind of one of those hues,
Speaker 2: out of side, out of mind, and then nobody had
Speaker 2: a chance to see him play his senior year at
Speaker 2: Sheldon High School. And you know, four years later he
Speaker 2: ends up a top five pick and an NFL Rookie
Speaker 2: of the Year and all anybody wanted to talk about
Speaker 2: out West that year.
Speaker 5: Was Jacob Meson.
Speaker 2: So there are still cases like that through the cracks
Speaker 2: and they needing the big school will land guys that
Speaker 2: nobody's trying to do, or they'll land a guy like
Speaker 2: a Matt Jones, who was essentially a throw in, a
Speaker 2: guy who's bet on himself realizing hey, I'm going there
Speaker 2: at the same time too is and I could go
Speaker 2: to Kentucky and everything will be great. And you still
Speaker 2: just think the kid's going to see the field and
Speaker 2: now he's a potential first round pick. I mean even
Speaker 2: the big schools have those guys that kind of surprise everybody,
Speaker 2: including the school that landed him.
Speaker 3: So who are the big crack slippers for lack of
Speaker 3: a better term, and this year's draft, when you look
Speaker 3: at the guy who's projects to go first night or
Speaker 3: the first couple of days, who are those guys where
Speaker 3: you're like, not nobody could see this coming because a
Speaker 3: college coach and a college program or programs obviously saw
Speaker 3: something coming, saw some sort of glimmer. But who who
Speaker 3: seems to be the furthest away from the recruiting community's
Speaker 3: radar that is now considered a blue chip NFL prospect.
Speaker 2: I mean Jack Wilson, there's probably no better player here,
Speaker 2: and he can make a case too that you know,
Speaker 2: there's a guy like Trey Lance, who I think is
Speaker 2: now probably cemented the fact that every North Dakota State
Speaker 2: quarterback moving forward will end up being rated highly because
Speaker 2: of him, because of uh oh gosh, what's our guy
Speaker 2: in Philadelphia's.
Speaker 1: Name, Carson Wentz Carson.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yes, so there may be you know, a closer
Speaker 2: love given in North Dakota State quarterback. But you know
Speaker 2: it's not like Jack Wilson was a No Namer at
Speaker 2: the time. He was committed to Boise State and he
Speaker 2: ended up putting the BYU late wanted to go to Utah,
Speaker 2: and I mean think about Utah for a second. His dad, mom,
Speaker 2: welcomes to Utah, the kid Juna playing for Utah, and
Speaker 2: Utah would all in on Jack Tuttle. Meanwhile, Zach Wilson
Speaker 2: ends up at Boise State, cal decides to bring in
Speaker 2: jay Z Shroud over him, and Jake Shout ends up
Speaker 2: decommitting going to test. In fact, I ran into Zach
Speaker 2: Wilson's dad last weekend at the under Our camp in
Speaker 2: Phoenix and we had a good lass. And by saying we,
Speaker 2: I mean he had a good laugh at how Zach's
Speaker 2: recruitment was so boring early on and how it's all
Speaker 2: turned out. It was the day after his pro day
Speaker 2: and you know he's on thirds of Cal basically saying, hey,
Speaker 2: we got a quarterback, you don't need to ring the
Speaker 2: Camp Boise skate, then essentially driving to Boise to try
Speaker 2: to get seen by the coaches, and then BYU gives
Speaker 2: a late offer to Zach Wilson and the rest is history.
Speaker 2: You know, he was a mid the solid three star
Speaker 2: tip guy. Wasn't the biggest guy, wasn't the biggest arm
Speaker 2: and I would say that because of what Zach Wilson
Speaker 2: did at BYU. And then you look at the season
Speaker 2: that Jackson Dark had at the same Eyes school at
Speaker 2: Corner Canyon up in draper Uta, who again, he too
Speaker 2: was a late bloomer, and he had the benefit of
Speaker 2: having a senior season when a lot of the West
Speaker 2: Coast teams weren't. He was the hottest quarterback recruit in
Speaker 2: the country by the fall, and part of that was
Speaker 2: because of Look what Zach Wilson did at YU. So
Speaker 2: there's nobody in this question. You look at the Trevor
Speaker 2: Lawrence as, the Jamar Chases, the Canay Seols, the Justin Fields,
Speaker 2: Michael Parsons, all those guys were consensus top ten, top
Speaker 2: fifteen all American type guys. And then Zach Wilson's kind
Speaker 2: of the old Destiny Street. You know, one of these
Speaker 2: guys is not like the other.
Speaker 3: One of the things are maybe the thing that makes
Speaker 3: quarterback or projecting quarterback success as a high schooler to
Speaker 3: college and then college to the pros is you only
Speaker 3: have one quarterback on the field at a time. So
Speaker 3: that means there's only opportunity for so many guys to
Speaker 3: prove themselves and to prove themselves in the right situation
Speaker 3: and to have injury luck and to you know, have
Speaker 3: receiver injury luck, offensive line injury luck, a coordinator sticking
Speaker 3: around or having the right coordinator. There's so many different
Speaker 3: factors that go into the cocktail of quarterback success, and
Speaker 3: so it's it's understandable why that position is so difficult
Speaker 3: to evaluate. What is the next most difficult position? I mean,
Speaker 3: you see you mentioned Pine Sewel, he was a clear
Speaker 3: high blue chip, elite recruit. And then it's Rashaun Slater
Speaker 3: at Northwestern, who I don't think anybody saw coming when
Speaker 3: you look at his offer list in the schools that
Speaker 3: he was down to was Northwestern in Illinois and Kansas
Speaker 3: and some G five schools. Is it offensive line? Is
Speaker 3: there a different position that's hard that's just as hard
Speaker 3: to project his quarterback. What position group stands out as
Speaker 3: just being kind of a crap shoot?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I would say with that question, it's
Speaker 2: offensive line, and it always has it, because where the
Speaker 2: danger starts to lie is that you see a guy
Speaker 2: who is dominant in high school and dominant maybe in college,
Speaker 2: but then doesn't necessarily have the projectable traits to the NFL.
Speaker 2: Then the flip said, you might see a guy who's
Speaker 2: two forty playing left tackle out of necessity for his
Speaker 2: high school team. He gets to college and now he's
Speaker 2: playing at two sixty to seventy eighty. Then by the
Speaker 2: time the carline comes around, he's two ninety, but he's
Speaker 2: still moving like the two hundred and forty times tight
Speaker 2: end he.
Speaker 5: Used to be.
Speaker 2: There's just so much development. It's funny, though, because if
Speaker 2: I look back at someone like my best hit, they
Speaker 2: were offensive linement, and I look back my biggest Smiths
Speaker 2: ever was a running back, and all three of those
Speaker 2: guys in the same draft class are in the same
Speaker 2: recruiting boss. Who was yere GARYL. Scott number one out
Speaker 2: West and I actually had the lowest of any recruiting site,
Speaker 2: but he was another one running back, but then two
Speaker 2: and three went Tyron Smith and Nat will who both
Speaker 2: ended up being the first half of picks and consecutive drafts.
Speaker 2: So there's easy to kind of maybe see the elite guys,
Speaker 2: but you know, you have in.
Speaker 5: Recent years there's been this real shift.
Speaker 2: Toward finding the guys that are a little bit on
Speaker 2: the center side as high schoolers that maybe aren't the
Speaker 2: no doubt, no brainers the day they get on campus,
Speaker 2: they developed into that, and you know, you look at it,
Speaker 2: it's like a Mitch Hyatt. Mitch Higat started with four years.
Speaker 2: It comes in on two national championship teams and three
Speaker 2: that played a national championship games and probably some of
Speaker 2: the best offenses of the last decade and didn't get drafted.
Speaker 2: And you know, he was the elite offensive lineman coming
Speaker 2: out of high school. But then you see that there's
Speaker 2: the other guys, like those Seawan Platers that kind of
Speaker 2: just develop and they put on the good weight. And
Speaker 2: there's been some some.
Speaker 5: Analytics done over the last few years.
Speaker 2: I think there's a four year gap in the NFL
Speaker 2: draft where not one offensive lineman was drafted in the
Speaker 2: first round who weighs over three hundred pounds as a
Speaker 2: high schooler, and I mean you think about offensive lineman.
Speaker 2: You look at the three hundred plus pounders in high school,
Speaker 2: they look like they got the bodies that are ready
Speaker 2: to withstand the collegiate grind. And now you're seeing this
Speaker 2: shift and more and more players are, you know, center
Speaker 2: as high schoolers, and coaches want to put the good
Speaker 2: weight on them, they want to develop them in the
Speaker 2: size that they want. Then you've got a guy that today, Sewell,
Speaker 2: who's the opposite. It took Organ taking the bad weight
Speaker 2: off of him and now he's a potential top two,
Speaker 2: top three pick.
Speaker 3: So who are some names when you look back at
Speaker 3: their recruitment that you think it was a particularly fascinating
Speaker 3: trajectory that they had as recruits and as college players
Speaker 3: now seeing the sort of end of their evaluation period
Speaker 3: as NFL draft prospects. What are the names that stand
Speaker 3: out that you'll always remember their recruitment and story.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, you know, there's there's a couple of guys.
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go kind of West Coast as strong on this,
Speaker 2: but it makes sense. One was whyatt David And part
Speaker 2: of that was because you know why it's older brother, David,
Speaker 2: played at Peninsular Palis Bridi's high school, was lightly recruited,
Speaker 2: played at Washington State, was at cal and I remember
Speaker 2: talking to his dad and dad said, hey, you've always
Speaker 2: been so helpful. There's anything you can you know, do
Speaker 2: you ever need for me let me know? I said, well,
Speaker 2: I already know the answer this question. But asked, were
Speaker 2: you Alvin Max in the program?
Speaker 5: And he said, yeah, I used to do a.
Speaker 2: Little action back in the day. And like he was
Speaker 2: the greatest college football player in the history of the
Speaker 2: cinema by far, Like you will never find a more
Speaker 2: dominant college football player. He was Monte's birthday before there
Speaker 2: was Vontes birthday, you know, And it was so funny,
Speaker 2: you know, by the time why it was a senior
Speaker 2: he was so tired of that story that why it
Speaker 2: started to say, dude, I was bury in Pancake al
Speaker 2: Thannack every single play.
Speaker 5: Well did you watch what Why it does in Ohio State?
Speaker 2: And you're like, you know, what, he might have been right,
Speaker 2: he might have done exactly what twelfth grade Why David Day.
Speaker 2: But you know, the fun fact that people very few
Speaker 2: people know about Why Davis is that his grandfather is
Speaker 2: an NFL Hall of Famer. You know, we think about
Speaker 2: his dad being this college football star on the movies
Speaker 2: and all the different athletes he play, but you know,
Speaker 2: he comes from a good bloodline in terms of an
Speaker 2: NFL Hall of Famers. So it's been fun to watch
Speaker 2: why I kind of come into his own. I would say,
Speaker 2: here's the one. And I tweeted about this a bunch
Speaker 2: during the season.
Speaker 5: It wasn't like the guy wasn't a known name.
Speaker 2: I mean, DeVonta Smith was a five star coming out
Speaker 2: of high school. He was part of arguably the best
Speaker 2: three headed monster receiver class that that you know, college
Speaker 2: football has ever seen. Or we'll see what the Ohio
Speaker 2: state class in the next couple of years out to be.
Speaker 2: But the Jerry Judy, Henry Ruggs Devonte Smith three headed
Speaker 2: monster was pretty impressive. And you know, the last time
Speaker 2: we saw Devontae Smith as a high schooler, he was
Speaker 2: on a viral cliff at the Army All American Bowl
Speaker 2: and it was an East West scrimmage one day. And
Speaker 2: the one doctor Vante Smith still is dealing with right
Speaker 2: now is what.
Speaker 1: Size skinny skinny?
Speaker 2: Okay, So you know that's been something he's been dealing
Speaker 2: with for four or five years. And Richard, look who
Speaker 2: went to Georgia, basically drove him a good twenty five
Speaker 2: thirty yards off the field. It was kind of like
Speaker 2: watching the blind style of Michael Ower drove the kid
Speaker 2: off the field. So this really happened, and it happened
Speaker 2: in a day and age where everybody had their cameras
Speaker 2: out and the cliff probably had over.
Speaker 5: A million views.
Speaker 2: And what I remember the most vividly about the play
Speaker 2: is in this day, they's a lot of kids was sold.
Speaker 2: If they get did dirty, they'll go on Twitter, they'll
Speaker 2: get combative. Devonte Smith to go down after the practice
Speaker 2: to talk to do some interviews, and he looked at
Speaker 2: John Garcias, who I worked at the time, and he said,
Speaker 2: first me, he says, how bad is it? And John goes,
Speaker 2: it's pretty bad. He's like, is it viral yet? And
Speaker 2: John goes, it's really viral and DeVante just goes, damn
Speaker 2: and he laughed. He says, all right, let's see the interview,
Speaker 2: like he just took the lot. Well. A year later,
Speaker 2: Devonte Smith is going to torture Richard's account and his
Speaker 2: dreams for the rest of his life because he gets
Speaker 2: the walk off touchdown to be Jordia to win the
Speaker 2: national championship three years later as arguably, you know, the
Speaker 2: greatest season, if not one of the greatest careers ever
Speaker 2: for a collegiate receiver. And to think about, like the
Speaker 2: last time we saw this guy as a high schooler
Speaker 2: was him getting thrown over the side of a bench
Speaker 2: on the sidelines to winning a Heisman trophy, winning a
Speaker 2: national championship. You know, it's been fun to watch it
Speaker 2: because of the way he handled it. He handled it
Speaker 2: so graciously. So those are two guys that I've always
Speaker 2: and that twenty seventeen class, you know, he also have
Speaker 2: Jaln Phillips and the roller coaster his career.
Speaker 1: You're stealing my thunder. That was my next question.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I'll let you ask the question. But he's
Speaker 2: another one that twenty seventeen class. Quite some stories that
Speaker 2: interesting recruitment, interesting roller coaster of a career that all time.
Speaker 2: Then that's still with the likes that they're going to
Speaker 2: be gone on Thursday night.
Speaker 4: So you bring up Jalen Phillips right now, I'm looking
Speaker 4: at one of the mock drafts. He's a first round pick.
Speaker 4: I think according to is this CBS, yeh, CBS, they've
Speaker 4: got him going in the twenties. I think to the
Speaker 4: Saints maybe. But Jalen Phillips, like you said, loaded class
Speaker 4: a few years back, I believe, was the number one
Speaker 4: overall recruit per the twenty four to seven historical rankings.
Speaker 4: He's one of the top fifty best recruits of all time.
Speaker 4: So clearly a que who came in with a lot
Speaker 4: of acclaim but had a bit of a journey to
Speaker 4: get to this state, right signed with UCLA, eventually catches
Speaker 4: on with Miami, has a pretty good year. You know,
Speaker 4: I hate to ask the talk about question, but talk
Speaker 4: about Jalen Phillips and the journey that he's been on
Speaker 4: that brought him to Where is that now where I
Speaker 4: guess he's realizing that full potential.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you know, one of the most fascinating side
Speaker 2: notes about Jalen Phillips is I believe he is the
Speaker 2: only player in the twenty four seven Sports compositive history
Speaker 2: who was not named the number one player by any
Speaker 2: of the media outlets that covered recruiting. And that's what's
Speaker 2: interesting is you look at the guys who had been
Speaker 2: the number one composite player in the years before the
Speaker 2: years after, they were all ranked number one by at
Speaker 2: least one of the four. At the time when Jalen
Speaker 2: Filos was named the composite number one, there were four
Speaker 2: recruiting sites Scalps, which is where I was at the time,
Speaker 2: twenty four to seven from that now, ESPN and Rivals,
Speaker 2: and neither of those for sites had him as their
Speaker 2: number one player, but all force sites had him up
Speaker 2: high enough. And there was such a difference in who
Speaker 2: was ranked number one at the Xagia Hair was number
Speaker 2: one at Scout. I want to say cam Akers might
Speaker 2: have been number one at ESPN, and so there was
Speaker 2: this wise kind of opinion on who the actual number
Speaker 2: one player was by all four sites. To get Jalen
Speaker 2: Phillips ends up the number one composite players. So fast
Speaker 2: forward him get into the UCLA. He starts in their
Speaker 2: season opener against Texas A and m has a couple
Speaker 2: of players. I think he had a couple tackles for loss,
Speaker 2: a couple of hurries and shows some splashes really early
Speaker 2: on that he was going to be a special player.
Speaker 2: Then I want to say about least three or four
Speaker 2: he sprained his ankle and was never really the stain.
Speaker 2: Jim Morrig gets fired at the end of the year.
Speaker 2: Chip Kelly comes in. Jalen Phillison's having another injury. He
Speaker 2: suffers and I want to say, like a scooter kind
Speaker 2: of accident at UCLA that destroys his wrist. He leaves
Speaker 2: Ucla on basically he was retired from football. The talk
Speaker 2: at the time that he was retiring from football may
Speaker 2: stay at UCLA. Ultimately decided to pursue a career in music,
Speaker 2: ended up at Miami and completely was re vitalized in
Speaker 2: Nanny as a defense to the point where he's now
Speaker 2: going to be a first rounder most likely. Still, yeah,
Speaker 2: he won't be the number one overall pick, but he's
Speaker 2: essentially a hit, a five star going in the first round.
Speaker 2: And all it took was a change of scenery, you know.
Speaker 2: And I remember when he picked Ucla. At the time,
Speaker 2: he seemed like a lot for Stanford. That was the
Speaker 2: spring of his junior year and his recruitment was picking out.
Speaker 2: Stanford was just coming off the Christian McCaffrey Rose Bowl
Speaker 2: win over Iowa. You know, they were once again the
Speaker 2: hot team out in the Pac twelve.
Speaker 5: They had won.
Speaker 2: Gosh what, their third Pac twelve title in about four years.
Speaker 2: At that point he was a four point zero student
Speaker 2: and he still didn't beat Stanford for those kind of guys. Ever,
Speaker 2: with Jim Mora and David Shot and Glen Phillis decided
Speaker 2: pretty early on he wanted to.
Speaker 5: Go to UCLA for his dad went. So he was
Speaker 5: a legacy to some extent.
Speaker 2: But you know, for him to come around full circle
Speaker 2: after it looked like he was walking away from the
Speaker 2: game of football to then being the dominant player that
Speaker 2: we all saw in high school. This guy then he
Speaker 2: played linebackers, He's put out wide play receiver, he could
Speaker 2: play outside of the end, he put his hands down
Speaker 2: play a three second. He played just about everywhere. I
Speaker 2: think he had like a five or six bag game
Speaker 2: at one point at Redland Sally. And now you know,
Speaker 2: he ends up revitalizing under many dias and you know
Speaker 2: he's a success story. But it's not like he's a
Speaker 2: guy who outplayed his ranking. He more than I guess,
Speaker 2: more than anything, lived up to the ranking. It just
Speaker 2: took a hell of a journey to get there.
Speaker 4: You know who the nub well, I know you know
Speaker 4: the answer. The number two player in the twenty seventeen class.
Speaker 2: I want to say it was Nagie Harris.
Speaker 1: It was Naji Harris.
Speaker 4: Naji Harris also on our list here of guys to
Speaker 4: ask about, because look, he's obviously been a fixture, he's
Speaker 4: been a standout performer at Alabama, was the number two
Speaker 4: overall recruit in that twenty seventeen class. And weirdly, I
Speaker 4: don't know if it's because running backs often get devalued
Speaker 4: a bit as we go into the NFL Draft. I
Speaker 4: don't know if it's because he played on just such
Speaker 4: a cast of all stars at Alabama. I don't know
Speaker 4: what it is, but Naji Harris has fallen into like
Speaker 4: the second round here per some of these mock drafts.
Speaker 4: I don't feel like I've heard a lot of him
Speaker 4: over the last couple months, really, not any of the
Speaker 4: running backs, because so much has been focused on quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: And wide receivers.
Speaker 4: But I remember talking to you shortly after Naji Harris
Speaker 4: was signed on at Alabama, and you were gung ho
Speaker 4: on Naji, gung ho on him. And it wasn't until
Speaker 4: last year, maybe this year, when we saw more of
Speaker 4: him that we got to see as college football fans
Speaker 4: that dynamic of having incredible moves and elusiveness with the power,
Speaker 4: and I guess maybe like the closest analog to an
Speaker 4: Alabama running back in the NFL having crazy success at
Speaker 4: least currently is someone like a Derreck Henry. This is
Speaker 4: a guy who's a different back. He's maybe not as
Speaker 4: powerful as Henry, but he probably has better moves.
Speaker 2: Not only that, I think Nagie Harris is one of
Speaker 2: the best pass catching running backs that I've seen in
Speaker 2: the last five to seven years, And that was something
Speaker 2: about him that I always really appreciated that when you're
Speaker 2: an elite player, when you're even an elite back, seven
Speaker 2: on seven is not necessarily a great avenue for inside
Speaker 2: linebackers and running backs to show what they do their
Speaker 2: bet You know, linebackers are inside guys. They're the ones
Speaker 2: that shut down running games. They're the ones that get
Speaker 2: into the backfield, and maybe they're not as good in
Speaker 2: pass cotvergs with running backs. Hey, I'm the guy that
Speaker 2: takes the hand off and runs over people, you know,
Speaker 2: but I'm not used to the ball being thrown to me.
Speaker 2: I'm used to being put in my bread basket and
Speaker 2: then I run but now he did a ton of
Speaker 2: seven on seven just so he can improve as a
Speaker 2: pass catcher, can really be a weapon as a receiver.
Speaker 2: But when you watched him run the ball, I mean
Speaker 2: it was a treat. Guys just could not bring him
Speaker 2: down in the open field. I mean, if you were
Speaker 2: an elite open field tack where he'd make you look
Speaker 2: like an average field tack where because he would either
Speaker 2: run over you, run around you, run through you, or
Speaker 2: might do a way of finding doing all three at
Speaker 2: the same time. And I was convinced early on. I mean,
Speaker 2: I think he might have been when at the old
Speaker 2: scout dot Com rankings day, if he might have been
Speaker 2: on wire to wire number one. When we saw him
Speaker 2: as a freshman, you could just tell he was special.
Speaker 2: And what I think kind of helped open the doors
Speaker 2: of why we thought he was going to be silly
Speaker 2: lead is you know he was coming out his freshman
Speaker 2: year was Joe Mixon's senior year. Joe Mixon was one
Speaker 2: of the top backs out West. Leonard Fournette was also
Speaker 2: in that class, and you looked at it, he was
Speaker 2: kind of a combination of Fournette and Nixon in terms
Speaker 2: of just the all around game that he had, and
Speaker 2: then he doesn't put up video game members at a
Speaker 2: pretty high level in northern California, commits surly to Alabama.
Speaker 2: There were other schools that kept trying, but he doubled
Speaker 2: down and stuck with Alabama. Then, you know, his senior year,
Speaker 2: his junior year as Derrick Henry Heiland Trophy when he
Speaker 2: sees and then at senior year he comes out and
Speaker 2: puts up more big numbers. And there was a big
Speaker 2: debate at that time who would better gamer camp makers
Speaker 2: even out west, Who's better Cam or Steed of car
Speaker 2: And you know, I think Cam Lakers was criminally underused
Speaker 2: at Florida State. But I think Nage his career played
Speaker 2: out exactly as he thought it.
Speaker 5: Was going to be.
Speaker 2: He knew going to Alabama that unless you were at
Speaker 2: Mika Fitzpatrick or even a Joan and Williams, there was
Speaker 2: a hard chance that it was going to be hard
Speaker 2: for a true freshman to come in and be the starter,
Speaker 2: especially with so many established players. And you know, Josh
Speaker 2: Jacobs was there. I want to say both Scarborough may
Speaker 2: have come back four year or maybe he left before that,
Speaker 2: but there was you know, a little bit of a blood
Speaker 2: of backs in Alabama's back of Damien Harris is there
Speaker 2: as well, and it just took him time. He stayed
Speaker 2: the course, and you know he's going to go down
Speaker 2: historically as one of the most productive backs in that
Speaker 2: SEC history.
Speaker 5: But like you said, the running back position has been so.
Speaker 2: Devalued over the years that he may not be fully appreciated.
Speaker 2: Comes the draft, he's probably going to be, you know,
Speaker 2: one of the top two or three backs pick, but
Speaker 2: it might not be until they too. But I don't
Speaker 2: think that say away from the fact that he was
Speaker 2: every bit elite running back and the elite player we
Speaker 2: thought he would be, and I think Nick Samon got
Speaker 2: exactly what we thought. And hey, Derek Henry went the
Speaker 2: second round. I think there are a lot of NFL
Speaker 2: gms that would have loved and had that one.
Speaker 3: That it's a good transition because you mentioned both Najia
Speaker 3: Harris and before DeVante Smith, guys who really have shown
Speaker 3: themselves to be impressive, not just on the field, but
Speaker 3: you hear them speak, you see there you learn more
Speaker 3: about their stories. Najia Harris, I think has become more
Speaker 3: outspoken these past few months, and DeVante Smith has certainly
Speaker 3: carried himself really impressively. Who are the guys at or
Speaker 3: near the top of the draft just from interacting with
Speaker 3: them as humans that you're rooting for because you firmly
Speaker 3: believe they have a strong head on their shoulders and
Speaker 3: that you know they end up in the right situation
Speaker 3: that they're you know, their maturity will shine through with
Speaker 3: It's a very difficult thing to be an NFL player sometimes.
Speaker 3: Who are you rooting for as humans that's being talked
Speaker 3: about at or near the top?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean this be a little bit of a
Speaker 2: cop out because he's going to be the number one
Speaker 2: pick in the draft and lets something crazy happened. But
Speaker 2: you know the attention that was thrust on Trevor Lawrence,
Speaker 2: it wasn't one of those where you know, he was
Speaker 2: the golden child, you know at a young age like
Speaker 2: Lebron when he's on the cover of magazines. But I
Speaker 2: mean he was pretty quickly identified as the number one
Speaker 2: player in that class, and you know, Scott we had
Speaker 2: him as our number one player. Twenty four seven did
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 5: There was a little bit of a dip after the opening.
Speaker 2: Where twenty four seven, who we hadn't merged with at
Speaker 2: the time put Justin Fields at number one before ultimately
Speaker 2: studying on Trevor Lawrence. But I mean between the long hair,
Speaker 2: the just kind of the sunshine label that he was given,
Speaker 2: but just the expectations of what Trevor Lawrence was able
Speaker 2: to do, and you know, to really see what he
Speaker 2: became symbolic of college football over the last year and
Speaker 2: being so adamant about getting these guys to play, and
Speaker 2: Justin Fields too. I mean, it's almost a cost out
Speaker 2: to say those are the two that you really root for,
Speaker 2: But the reality is those two.
Speaker 5: Are going to be intertwined forever.
Speaker 2: And you look at what both those guys meant to
Speaker 2: the game of college football the last two three years,
Speaker 2: and you know, each of them played for a national championship. Uh,
Speaker 2: you know, won one a national championship. They're both just
Speaker 2: the special players that they were one and two and
Speaker 2: you know there's a chance they can go one and
Speaker 2: two now. But it's more than what they did on
Speaker 2: the field. It's what they did off the field and
Speaker 2: the attention that they brought to the game and for
Speaker 2: their peers and for their teammates. Those are two guys
Speaker 2: that just really root for and you know, they're going
Speaker 2: to be successful because like Kirk kerb Street, I mean,
Speaker 2: the whispers, it happens every year. There's always some agents
Speaker 2: in those rogues and tries to start, you know, knocking
Speaker 2: off one of the quarterbacks or a scout does it.
Speaker 2: But the whispers about Justin Field's and the work effic
Speaker 2: that's not at all anything that I've ever heard coming
Speaker 2: out of high school, coming out of college, either of
Speaker 2: his collegiate stops, and you know Trevor Lawrence too. I mean,
Speaker 2: just both those guys. They meant so much to the game.
Speaker 2: Those are guys that are easy to root for, and
Speaker 2: they're super talented players on top of it. And you know,
Speaker 2: give me a chance to talk to Trevor Lawrence at
Speaker 2: the Opening I remember he at the time when he
Speaker 2: had come to the Opening Finals, he had just committed
Speaker 2: the clumbs in a couple of weeks before, and I
Speaker 2: just kind of did a sidebar review. I was a
Speaker 2: guy who wasn't a familiar face because I was covering
Speaker 2: just the webs of the time, and you know, just
Speaker 2: talking to him, you realize the kid just loved football.
Speaker 2: He just wanted to be there, and he didn't care
Speaker 2: that he was a number one player. He didn't feel
Speaker 2: like he needed every rep and every throw, and he
Speaker 2: was fine sharing the duty on his seven on seventeen
Speaker 2: And even at that event, Justin Field went just nuts.
Speaker 2: I mean, he was by far the best player after
Speaker 2: the opening that particular event and won the Elite eleven,
Speaker 2: won the ninety seven on, and you know, both of them,
Speaker 2: they were competitors, but Trevor Lawrence wasn't the guy that
Speaker 2: said I need to take every rest, screw this other
Speaker 2: kid on my team. I don't know who the other
Speaker 2: kid he was, but it was kind of like, hey,
Speaker 2: we both earned our spot here, we both should have
Speaker 2: the opportunity to play, and just you know, you see
Speaker 2: things like that and you realize that these guys are
Speaker 2: good teammates, These are guys you want to go to
Speaker 2: battle with. And I think both those guys are players
Speaker 2: that you really root for. I mean, I already talked
Speaker 2: about Devonte Smith and just the way he handled the
Speaker 2: whole Richard Accounty always earned him bonus points. But I
Speaker 2: just think the expectations of what Justin Field and Trevor
Speaker 2: Lawrence were supposed to do in college and what they
Speaker 2: were supposed to do now going to the NFL, you
Speaker 2: can't help but root for those guys.
Speaker 4: I wanted to get your take. You mentioned justin fields.
Speaker 4: One of the bits of criticism that I've seen floating
Speaker 4: around now as we get closer to the draft is
Speaker 4: that he locks onto his primary receivers too much. I
Speaker 4: forget what the stat was and who did it. I'm
Speaker 4: probably batching this, but something like seventy percent of the
Speaker 4: time he is zeroed in on his primary receiver. And
Speaker 4: some have pointed out that they think that's that's important
Speaker 4: to note because you go to the NFL need to
Speaker 4: be better with your progressions. When someone like you hears that,
Speaker 4: how do you react to it?
Speaker 2: You know, I think it's a classic case of what
Speaker 2: every Scot deals with. You got to find something. You
Speaker 2: got to find a knock on everybody. Everybody. There's no
Speaker 2: p player, there's no perfect prospect. You have to find
Speaker 2: what their inability is, or what their area of weaknesses,
Speaker 2: or what the area they need to improve is.
Speaker 5: And I think that's the one that e'sn given.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, that's not necessarily one you want to have a
Speaker 2: quarterback begin it. Maybe you want to say out, well,
Speaker 2: he takes too many risks. You know, maybe he throws
Speaker 2: a few too many interceptions because you've got such a
Speaker 2: strong arm that he tries to force these at times
Speaker 2: because you know that's the only speed he knows how
Speaker 2: to throw at. But the whole progressions things, I think
Speaker 2: that is something that ends up becoming your red flag
Speaker 2: for some people. But I think it's unfair. I think
Speaker 2: when you have a receiver lack, a Crystal Lave or
Speaker 2: a Garrett Wilson at Ohio State, you lost the end
Speaker 2: of those primary receivers because you know you've got a
Speaker 2: mismatch on offense every single time. If I've got Chris Olave,
Speaker 2: who's going to blow by every defensive back just about
Speaker 2: that he lines up again, I'm going to find it.
Speaker 2: Yet maybe he is the primary siver. You know, people
Speaker 2: didn't have a lot of those same knocks without Sam
Speaker 2: Darnold at USC being a guy that locked on the
Speaker 2: February receiver. When you look at USC's office going back
Speaker 2: to when Clay Helson was there, they always had one
Speaker 2: receiver who was kind of the guy who got the
Speaker 2: majority of the touching. And I think if you look
Speaker 2: at the Alabama and the LSUS in the last few years,
Speaker 2: where you have four or five elite pass catchers and
Speaker 2: tied ends, then maybe Burrow and Tua aren't getting that
Speaker 2: as much because they're able to spread the field a
Speaker 2: little bit more that they have weapons. Ohio State's got
Speaker 2: a fantastic receiver room, but it was pretty top heavy
Speaker 2: this year with the Lave and with Garrett Wilson. They
Speaker 2: have a lot of really good young talent. But you know,
Speaker 2: Jackson Giba, Julian Fleming, Gee, Scott Junior, none of those
Speaker 2: guys really emerged his true freshmen. You know, Jeremy Rutger
Speaker 2: didn't seem to get utilized much until the the ballgames,
Speaker 2: until the National Championship game. But a lot of it
Speaker 2: it's not so much he lost his premiary receivers. I've
Speaker 2: got the best receiver on the field. I've got a mismatch.
Speaker 2: I'm going for him and I'm gonna throw him open.
Speaker 2: I think that's something, you know, It's funny when I
Speaker 2: talk to some of the NFL scouts and I know
Speaker 2: that say that they see the back gets overplayed a lot,
Speaker 2: that it's something that some people are just looking for
Speaker 2: a reason, you know, And how are you determining the
Speaker 2: eyes when you're watching the All twenty two from five
Speaker 2: hundred feet away, How are you able to determine who
Speaker 2: his eyes are on? I mean, the eyes aren't that
Speaker 2: crystal clear. It's one of those where it kind of
Speaker 2: becomes the Every year we hear the buzzwords of the
Speaker 2: draft are different. Oh, I watched the tape taste the
Speaker 2: one thing. It's like the fax machine at letter of Intent.
Speaker 2: Nobody's watching tape anymore. Okay, we're all watching digital video.
Speaker 2: But it becomes the cool buzzword, and so that becomes
Speaker 2: the cool buzzword. Knock is Oh, he watched on to Well,
Speaker 2: if you have mismatches, you're going to exploit them. And
Speaker 2: I think that's what he did more than any thing,
Speaker 2: is he's found his primary receiver. And I watched enough
Speaker 2: adjustment fields as a high schooler in the last couple
Speaker 2: of years of Ohio State to see when he needed
Speaker 2: to spread the field. He spread the field just fun.
Speaker 2: But when Chris Delator was blowing by an eb that's
Speaker 2: who he walked into and looked at the success that
Speaker 2: brought him.
Speaker 5: It brought up six points almost every time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's and that's the thing, right, Like,
Speaker 4: did he have to go to a different receiver or
Speaker 4: with primary guys open.
Speaker 1: It's also what he's asked to do too.
Speaker 5: Write Well, it's.
Speaker 2: Funny you bring that up, because I remembered talking to
Speaker 2: a Fact twelve head coach one time, and they were
Speaker 2: talking about the grading system that some media outlets will
Speaker 2: do the day after the game, and they'll say, oh, well,
Speaker 2: you know he was the leading you know, the leading
Speaker 2: defensive end of the country because he graded out of
Speaker 2: a ninety eight percent and the coach is saying, well,
Speaker 2: we did our internal grade. He rted out as like
Speaker 2: a seventy six percent. He missed so many blocks or
Speaker 2: he missed you know this play and that It's like
Speaker 2: they're just looking at the end result. We're looking down
Speaker 2: at what player assignment was, what was he whether he
Speaker 2: askin to do, what do we need him to do?
Speaker 2: What is he expected to do? And he did not
Speaker 2: do the play right at all? What the end results
Speaker 2: ended up being that he fell backwards on to defensive
Speaker 2: end or you know, the running back trip and the
Speaker 2: look like the outside linebacker made the tackle for locks
Speaker 2: in the backfield when he did everything wrong. Leaning up
Speaker 2: to that place remind me of you know, a teammate
Speaker 2: in high school who had I think like nine or
Speaker 2: ten interceptions one year. And normally you have your coach audience,
Speaker 2: and that's a lot of the receptions our coaches sweet
Speaker 2: of your nine interceptions. One time you actually did the
Speaker 2: right seat. And that's what people don't understand is what
Speaker 2: the coaches are asking and what the fans and the
Speaker 2: scouts as seem often are that's the different.
Speaker 3: One thing that you slipped into an earlier answer was
Speaker 3: that you had I think it was Darrell Scott the
Speaker 3: lowest ranked of any of the recruiting analysts or services
Speaker 3: when he was the number one running back.
Speaker 1: And I love that.
Speaker 3: I love throwing in your own personal take. So when
Speaker 3: you look at this year's class, is there a player,
Speaker 3: so this is this year's draft class, is there a
Speaker 3: player that you remember, you know, standing on the table
Speaker 3: for saying there's no way this guy is a three star,
Speaker 3: this guy is going to have a great career that
Speaker 3: you can now say I told you so. As he
Speaker 3: appears to be a you know, a top fifty sixty prospect.
Speaker 3: Who is your I told you so from this year's class?
Speaker 3: That maybe you you didn't win that argument when you
Speaker 3: were evaluating well.
Speaker 2: I ultimately won the argument, but it was kind of
Speaker 2: a kind of a risk at first. And this is
Speaker 2: one that I think you'll like, Dan. It's Javon Hollands.
Speaker 2: You know, Javon Holland. At Scout. We were the first
Speaker 2: ones to make him a four star. Everybody else had
Speaker 2: him as a three star. He got invited to the
Speaker 2: Opening Finals, didn't get invited to the Army All American Bowls,
Speaker 2: didn't get invited to the under Arma All American Game,
Speaker 2: gets invited to Polynesian Bowl, And it was probably our
Speaker 2: MVP throughout that full weekend. He was a player that
Speaker 2: as a sophomore, as a junior, you know, he could
Speaker 2: have been a wide receiver at the next level. And
Speaker 2: it was actually at about a two day event in
Speaker 2: Las Vegas that I saw him. At the Adidas Regionals
Speaker 2: or Addis National seven on seven, he had a touchdown
Speaker 2: catch playing receiver. In fact that it was Carson Straw,
Speaker 2: who's now the quarterback in Nevada, was the quarterback of
Speaker 2: that team, and it took Javan about four strides to
Speaker 2: get himself open on this post for a touchdown. And
Speaker 2: it came a play after his team got the ball
Speaker 2: back where he was lined up on the right side
Speaker 2: of the field, went to go provide safety help to
Speaker 2: the left side, flipped his hips, did a clear strength
Speaker 2: back to the left side of the field to pick
Speaker 2: off a pass in that same game. Then he comes
Speaker 2: out in the roads like a forty five yard post
Speaker 2: for a touchdown, and we already had it as a
Speaker 2: four star, but nobody else did. And I just kept thinking, like,
Speaker 2: I don't care what side of the ball this kid plays.
Speaker 2: This kid's going to be a special player in college.
Speaker 2: And he ended up starting I want to say it
Speaker 2: started pretty quickly into his freshman year at Oregon. Obviously
Speaker 2: was a huge part of their Roosevelt team as a sophomore.
Speaker 2: I didn't play the last year, but he was a
Speaker 2: player that I remember going early on and thinking that,
Speaker 2: you know, man, this kid is just a special football player.
Speaker 2: I just need to figure out what the heck he's
Speaker 2: going to play. I think we originally rate him as
Speaker 2: a receiver, then we said athlete before we finally settled
Speaker 2: on dB and see what he did at Oregon was
Speaker 2: never really a surprise us because we thought early and
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, you know, after the week he had
Speaker 2: fallen Agenbolle and you know, Jaban the nicest kid. But
Speaker 2: he even said to beginning fall an Asian Bowl League,
Speaker 2: you know, I want to make the other AFSCAR games,
Speaker 2: regret that they didn't invite me, and then he goes
Speaker 2: out and back to up the entire week. So he's
Speaker 2: a player that.
Speaker 5: I still think too.
Speaker 2: You know, his best football may still be ahead of him. Uh,
Speaker 2: just a versatile defensive back that could play really if
Speaker 2: he even played corner, he could, if he could play
Speaker 2: a free, he could play a strong, he could play
Speaker 2: you know, just about any spot in the secondary. And
Speaker 2: I think he's going to have a hell of a career.
Speaker 3: Is there anybody that you were worried about that they
Speaker 3: were going to get lost in the shuffle? And it's
Speaker 3: sort of been a pleasant surprise that they were able
Speaker 3: to pop in college. You know, maybe it was you know,
Speaker 3: injury concerns in high school. Maybe it was you know,
Speaker 3: transferring a bunch or grades that like they just had
Speaker 3: a tough seeming road to success going from high school
Speaker 3: to college. Who is now considered to be a top
Speaker 3: level talent. That just a pleasant surprise for you.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't say he's so much as
Speaker 2: a surprise as the kid just run every ounce ability
Speaker 2: out of his body. And again, I'm gonna go back
Speaker 2: to the state of Oregon this time, but I'm going
Speaker 2: to go back to Elijah Molden. You know, Elijah Moulding
Speaker 2: was a phenomenal high school football player. I mean as
Speaker 2: good of a high school football player as you did
Speaker 2: ever imagine. I remember see him as a sophomore at
Speaker 2: West Lynne going to watch him play as a running back,
Speaker 2: and you know, he wasn't the biggest guy, wasn't necessarily
Speaker 2: the fastest kid out there. His dad a trainer half
Speaker 2: the ax abilities as a former first round or played
Speaker 2: at Oregon, played in the NFL. But with Elijah, you know,
Speaker 2: he was a great player, but he wasn't considered one
Speaker 2: of the elite players nationally. And even if you look
Speaker 2: at the co owners that were in that class out West,
Speaker 2: you know you had Darnay Holmes, who started a couple
Speaker 2: of games for the New York Giants this year. You
Speaker 2: had uh Jaylon Johnson, who was probably the best corner
Speaker 2: in that class in terms of what he did a
Speaker 2: U T. I C. He was either late first round
Speaker 2: or early second rounder by the Bears. You know, you
Speaker 2: also had Diamere lean Or at Oregon that same class,
Speaker 2: so there were some really good dvs. Jeff Kudah Sean
Speaker 2: Wade were also in that class. So there's a lot
Speaker 2: of good natural vs. A lot of good West Coast TVs.
Speaker 2: And I remember this thing with Elijah Molden is it
Speaker 2: was always a three team race in his recruitment. It
Speaker 2: was Stanford, Washington, and Oregon, and obviously Oregon had all
Speaker 2: the family ties. Stanford again, just like with Jale and Philip,
Speaker 2: if you look at that Stanford class, they really reaped
Speaker 2: the benefits of that twenty sixteen rose Bow win over Iowa.
Speaker 5: And I remember going to the.
Speaker 2: Game the night before the Oregon Washington game when that
Speaker 2: week Elijah had been admitted into Stanford and Jimmy Lake
Speaker 2: was at the Wash or at the the West Wind
Speaker 2: Tiger game. And about a week or two later, I
Speaker 2: think Elijah committed to Washington and it was kind of
Speaker 2: a surprise. It was like, if he doesn't go to Oregon,
Speaker 2: he's going to stamfyf doesn't go to Stampley, He's going
Speaker 2: to Oregon. And he picked Washington ended up really being
Speaker 2: h you know, probably their defensive NDP in the last
Speaker 2: couple of years. And a guy that I think you
Speaker 2: could sneak into the second round. It's not higher, but
Speaker 2: was just a phenomenal player and a player that was
Speaker 2: a good really I would say, a great high school player,
Speaker 2: a good prospect who just made himself that much better
Speaker 2: of a player. And again, one of the great families
Speaker 2: that you'll ever meet. I think he's one of eight
Speaker 2: kids and just the most tight knit close to the family,
Speaker 2: just wonderful people. And then you watch Elijah Mobile on
Speaker 2: the field, and I mean, the kid is out there
Speaker 2: just destroying people, and he really just outplays kind of
Speaker 2: what his body does because he's just he works his
Speaker 2: ass off. As a lack of a better term about
Speaker 2: to say that.
Speaker 4: Governed by the FCC here, Brandon, even if it's not true,
Speaker 4: you can say it. Final question, as I look up
Speaker 4: and down the draft board, here there are two notable cornerbacks,
Speaker 4: Patrick Sirtan Santi Samuel. I'm not so much asking a
Speaker 4: question as I am for advice. I remember both of
Speaker 4: their fathers playing in the NFL, Brandon, and I wonder,
Speaker 4: in your particular line of work, how you avoid just
Speaker 4: this perennial feeling that we're really getting old seeing these
Speaker 4: names out there the intense march of time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, especially when these guys that are
Speaker 2: the dads are younger than I am. You know, it's
Speaker 2: one thing that there are guys that were.
Speaker 5: Like my age, when these dads.
Speaker 2: Are a couple of years you know, the man, I'm like, wait,
Speaker 2: you know, wasn't I watching Antline Winfield playing college when
Speaker 2: I was in college and now I'm watching his son
Speaker 2: Fred Taylor and I were the same graduating year, and
Speaker 2: I think, I tell then, well, I'm my oldest and
Speaker 2: the junior in high school, you know, than Taylor I
Speaker 2: think was eight nine classes ago. Ray Lewis is another
Speaker 2: one that was my age. I run into that all
Speaker 2: the time now, Like there's guys I'm sing, how in
Speaker 2: the world do you have a college aged kid or
Speaker 2: you know, a recruit or a kid that is going
Speaker 2: to be in the NFL like I saw were you
Speaker 2: just playing like two weeks ago? And it's just it's fascinating.
Speaker 2: But again that that's something that you know, it speaks
Speaker 2: to kind of a larger thing too. One thing that
Speaker 2: I would say we sometimes get lulled into It's not
Speaker 2: so much that we're old. It's sometimes like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: he's the offspring of so and so he's going to
Speaker 2: be really good. And I've said, I've told this story
Speaker 2: for years and it's one of the biggest bells that
Speaker 2: I've ever taken. And I remember saying on a local
Speaker 2: radio stition on signing day, I'm really going to regret
Speaker 2: naming Nick, making Nick Montana a four star and making
Speaker 2: Sean mann In a three star. I probably should have
Speaker 2: put those two.
Speaker 5: But I did.
Speaker 2: And boy, the next four years become prophetic to me.
Speaker 2: As Sean Mannin threw for over ten thousand yards in Fontana.
Speaker 2: Last we saw with throwing like eighty seven pick sixes
Speaker 2: for Tulane, you know, and we're seeing it now too.
Speaker 2: Where you've got a lot of legacies, a lot of
Speaker 2: guys that are the son of former NFL players, some
Speaker 2: are former NFL stars, and you think they're going to
Speaker 2: be every bit as good as their dad who were stars,
Speaker 2: and maybe they're just average football players. They're just good,
Speaker 2: solid football players, not the elite. Then you have the
Speaker 2: occasional kids where like a Patrick Sustent, where the younger
Speaker 2: one might be better than dad, you know, where there
Speaker 2: are cases where the youngster is even better.
Speaker 1: The ultimate backup is better than the starter.
Speaker 5: Exactly exactly.
Speaker 2: And so that's why it's so important to ignore the
Speaker 2: name and really just dive into who the player is
Speaker 2: and what kind of player he is and making sure
Speaker 2: that's what you're evaluating on, rather than just because they
Speaker 2: have the elite bloodline.
Speaker 5: And I think, you know.
Speaker 2: Maggie Johnston and Michael Jordan's kids probably weren't that great
Speaker 2: and now we're you know, thank god, I don't have
Speaker 2: to do basketball rankings, and I'm going to evaluate Browny
Speaker 2: James over the next couple of years because I can
Speaker 2: only imagine how polarizing that's going to be.
Speaker 5: But hey, Archie Manning, we.
Speaker 2: Got the nephew and the son of a Manning and
Speaker 2: the grandson of the Manning, and we got three years
Speaker 2: of m So we'll see if he's you know, Eli
Speaker 2: or Peyton, or if he's you know, Nick Montana or
Speaker 2: Jack Olway. With all due respect to Nick Montana and
Speaker 2: Jack Olway.
Speaker 3: So I think, ty, if what I'm hearing, if there's
Speaker 3: subtext to what Brandon is saying, is if you would
Speaker 3: like to have superstar athletes for children. It's cool if
Speaker 3: you at one point were, but maybe try to convince
Speaker 3: a strong athletic woman to have children.
Speaker 1: That's true.
Speaker 3: Yeah, if that's I mean, isn't Steph Curry's mom was
Speaker 3: like a terrific athlete?
Speaker 2: Right?
Speaker 3: Does it? It helps if not? Is the most important thing.
Speaker 2: He was in a who was our guy at LSU
Speaker 2: a couple of years ago whose mom was a OBJ
Speaker 2: I should know that.
Speaker 5: Yeah, world class sprinter.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes moms the one carrying all the athleticism
Speaker 2: and dad's just carrying the last name, or you know,
Speaker 2: it's the dad's Like most dads, they're taking all the
Speaker 2: credit in the world when the reality is mom really
Speaker 2: did a good job of doing everything. That's right.
Speaker 4: It works, all right.
Speaker 1: It's a good way to go out, ty, good way
Speaker 1: to go out.
Speaker 4: Brandon Hoffman check him out, National recruiting editor for twenty
Speaker 4: four to seven Sports. Also the founder and executive director
Speaker 4: of the Avery Huffman DIPG Foundation. Go and check that
Speaker 4: out at every strong DIPG. Longtime friend, Brandon, always great
Speaker 4: to have you on. We'll talk soon, all.
Speaker 2: Right, thanks. Bella has always enjoyed talking Shot down memory lane.
Speaker 4: All right, Daniel, that is Brandon Huffman again, longtime friend
Speaker 4: of the show. Always gracious with this time. You texted
Speaker 4: him mere minutes before he came on the air with us,
Speaker 4: so always want to come on and share his insight.
Speaker 4: And we're glad he did.
Speaker 1: The best, the absolute best.
Speaker 3: And I will say this, and I was thinking about
Speaker 3: this a couple of days ago as I was reading
Speaker 3: a bunch of draft stuff, just because I'm always curious.
Speaker 3: It's not what we do. We are not draft analysts,
Speaker 3: we are not NFL people, but there's a certain amount
Speaker 3: of curiosity I'm sure with college football fans about how
Speaker 3: the NFL values certain players and guys that we've been
Speaker 3: fans of for a long time where they're going to
Speaker 3: go in the draft. But the draft broadcast itself is fascinating, oh,
Speaker 3: because you think about love it the number. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: last year's was particularly fascinating because it was all remote,
Speaker 3: but just in terms of the number of clips that
Speaker 3: have to be available at any given moment based on
Speaker 3: who is drafted. And you know, every analyst has to
Speaker 3: have thorough opinions and evaluations and projections for every guy
Speaker 3: that's taken and how do they fit in with the team,
Speaker 3: What were they like in college? What do they you know,
Speaker 3: do they change position? Like every single minute detail has
Speaker 3: to be covered and covered quickly. So I think what
Speaker 3: we need to do is come up with some sort
Speaker 3: of fantasy things for the draft that we just love.
Speaker 1: We'll come up with.
Speaker 3: The fantasy things for the draft, and you can draft
Speaker 3: your own squad of like, you know, five things depending
Speaker 3: on you know, when they happen, how they happen. Something
Speaker 3: I love that is absolutely going to make its way
Speaker 3: in there is the Endomicansu played soccer memorial clip where
Speaker 3: it's a it's a it's a clearly very old clip
Speaker 3: of a prospect playing another sport athleticism absolutely to show
Speaker 3: his athleticism. Or remember there was a I think he
Speaker 3: was a nose tackle I forget his name. His name
Speaker 3: escapes me at Wisconsin who was there was like a
Speaker 3: viral clip of him doing a backflip on the.
Speaker 1: Beach like that.
Speaker 3: The non highlight video roles that happened during the draft,
Speaker 3: not a lot of like improv guys, here's here's this
Speaker 3: nose tackle in an improv class, but playing another sport
Speaker 3: or doing something freakishly athletic. I do live for that,
Speaker 3: because then it kind of throws off the host and
Speaker 3: analysts saying like, oh, I mean that's pretty cool. It
Speaker 3: throws them off a little bit in their talking points.
Speaker 3: So any any clip of you know, a shot put
Speaker 3: or track and field or swimming or basketball. You know, oh,
Speaker 3: a big one is an offensive lineman dunking, dunking.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they got the ups. They love that.
Speaker 4: Yeah. The other one, the other flip side of that,
Speaker 4: is the Miles Garrett Honorary Concert Pianist Award, where.
Speaker 1: Oh, I mean, I think that's Joey Harrington time.
Speaker 4: Well, right, whoever it is, you've always got, like the
Speaker 4: guy who can speak six languages, or somebody who's really
Speaker 4: good at chess, or you know John Erschall.
Speaker 3: They make the guys fluent in other languages, say something
Speaker 3: about like welcome to the twenty twenty one NFL draft.
Speaker 1: In you know, Farcia or Mandarin. Always good.
Speaker 4: Well, we'll get to that. We appreciate everyone stopping on.
Speaker 4: I none more so though, than Brandon Huffman, our guest
Speaker 4: of honor on this Yere's show. Solid Verbal dot Com
Speaker 4: is the website going out there yellow boxes where you
Speaker 4: can put your email address. We'll start sending emails as
Speaker 4: we get a little bit closer to the year, keep
Speaker 4: you up to date with what's going on. Also, verballers
Speaker 4: dot com is a Patreon where we're posting some fun
Speaker 4: bonus stuff here throughout the offseason. Dan so I got
Speaker 4: tame for that guy there, my good friend Dan Rubinstein,
Speaker 4: for myself, Tie hillde Brand. Thank you so much for downloading,
Speaker 4: for listening, for supporting. We will touch base again on Thursday.
Speaker 4: In the meantime, stay solid, peace,