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Speaker 1: H Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm all this stuff I Never told you prediction by

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Speaker 2: Heart You, and for today we are bringing back a

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Speaker 2: classic on boundaries. I think it continues to be a

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Speaker 2: relevant conversation, especially in our increasingly polarized world, but also

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Speaker 2: for me personally and by extension you personally. I have

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Speaker 2: a lot of very fanish things that are happening coming up,

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Speaker 2: and it can be difficult for me to be like

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Speaker 2: you know what, I can't have like everybody I know

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Speaker 2: in my.

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Speaker 1: Life coming to this event.

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Speaker 2: So it's a time where I'm thinking about boundaries once

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Speaker 2: again and how best to pursue them. So we hope

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Speaker 2: you enjoy this classic episode.

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Speaker 3: Hey, this is Annie and Samantha.

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Speaker 2: I'm welcome to Stefan Never told you the production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 3: Okay, Annie, for today's episode, I have a pretty big

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Speaker 3: generic question, but you know, we'll see how well you do. So,

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Speaker 3: on average, how often do you think you've actually said

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Speaker 3: no or declined a request in your adult life? On average?

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Speaker 1: On average?

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Speaker 2: I think it's shifted recently because of the pandemic, but

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Speaker 2: before that often, yeah, I've been at all and even

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Speaker 2: now like during the pandemic. I'm still pretty bad, but

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Speaker 2: I have gotten better because I have a pretty good reason.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 2: I had a friend, a good friend of ours, once

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Speaker 2: told me, like, you don't have to even respond because

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Speaker 2: a non response equals no, And I was like, but

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Speaker 2: that's so rude.

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Speaker 1: So I can't even do that. I have to say

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Speaker 1: yes or no.

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Speaker 3: Oh, that's my go to is just to not respond.

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Speaker 1: Not now I know, like I'm not there.

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Speaker 3: I'm like, I don't know, I don't know what's happening.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, And then.

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Speaker 2: Like the next day you're like, oh, I'm sorry, I'm

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Speaker 2: so sorry.

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Speaker 3: I just kidding. If I if I know you well know,

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Speaker 3: and I can say no to you, like if you

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Speaker 3: can handle a note, then I say no. But if

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Speaker 3: you people, I've had people who like pressure me and

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Speaker 3: talk you into it and won't take that. So I

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Speaker 3: just don't respond sometimes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, if I say no, and then you're you trying

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Speaker 2: to convince me. Now during the pandemic, I will say,

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Speaker 2: then I just won't respond anymore.

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Speaker 1: Right, But before then I.

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Speaker 2: Could be convinced. I could be pretty easily convinced.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and you know what, You're not the only

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Speaker 3: one and we're going to talk a little bit about

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Speaker 3: all of that, including the fact that we do need

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Speaker 3: to perspect other people's knows which is sometimes hard for me.

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Speaker 3: I'm one of those people, like I really feel like

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Speaker 3: I can't read sometimes. Whether you're saying no just because

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Speaker 3: you feel like you can't do it versus you actually

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Speaker 3: don't want to do it like that, those are the

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Speaker 3: trade differences. But you know, with all the everyday stress,

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Speaker 3: there's been a lot thrown at us recently, and it

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Speaker 3: seems like so much, so much in the past few years,

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Speaker 3: and for some of us we have really grown into

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Speaker 3: setting some boundaries again, like I just may not respond

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Speaker 3: to you, and you have done really well because you've

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Speaker 3: decided that you actually like your alone time, maybe a

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Speaker 3: little too much sometimes, But for others it's actually gotten worse,

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Speaker 3: especially when it comes to people trying to change the

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Speaker 3: state of the world. There's been so much that's happening,

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Speaker 3: and there's been so much, honestly just scary moments where

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Speaker 3: we're like everything's about to be the worst. So to

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Speaker 3: that end, we feel like we have to do even

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Speaker 3: more and definitely can't slow down, but there's no denying

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Speaker 3: setting of boundaries is at an actual talent, and there's

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Speaker 3: some who are really good at it and then some

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Speaker 3: who are not, yeah, and who are still learning, right,

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Speaker 3: And of course we had to take a minute and

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Speaker 3: research if there was a difference based on gender. And again,

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Speaker 3: so just to note, a lot of the studies, though

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Speaker 3: some more recent, are typically done from a cis heteroperspective,

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Speaker 3: so it's not as intersectional when it comes to like

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Speaker 3: the queer community or any of that. So again, we

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Speaker 3: would like, we would like that to be not so

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Speaker 3: much the case, but unfortunately we can't always get that.

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Speaker 3: But again, this is information that is good to know

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Speaker 3: on a personal level, and we are going to hit

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Speaker 3: that intersectional we are going to talk about when it

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Speaker 3: comes to the bipop community as well. But just for

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Speaker 3: the perspective, this is on a very personal level, so

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Speaker 3: very individualistic, I guess.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, And I know we're going to discuss this later,

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Speaker 2: but I feel like this is one of those topics

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Speaker 2: that often gets wrapped up in sort of the like catchy,

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Speaker 2: very heteronormative magazine titles that are like here's how you

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Speaker 2: set boundaries with your men, Yes, And there's.

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Speaker 3: So many of those, like we had to weed through

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Speaker 3: all of the Cosmo articles, which is there's nothing wrong

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Speaker 3: with that if they are evidence based, you do you,

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Speaker 3: but you know to the point that like this is

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Speaker 3: not what we're looking at necessarily to better set boundaries

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Speaker 3: to catch a man.

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Speaker 2: Right, right, Yeah, A lot to say about that, but

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Speaker 2: we better get into this verse, all right, and let's

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Speaker 2: get started with the definition. According to Miriam Webster, boundaries

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Speaker 2: are defined as something that indicates or fixes a limit

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Speaker 2: or extent. But a better definition of what we're talking

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Speaker 2: about is boundaries as quote an expression of inner authority.

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Speaker 2: And that's according to Bethanywebster dot com. And it continues

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Speaker 2: saying boundaries are a function of how much you are

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Speaker 2: in tune with yourself, how much you value yourself, and

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Speaker 2: where and with whom you choose to invest your energy.

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Speaker 2: Boundaries are often a battle people choose to not take

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Speaker 2: on easier to please people rather than dealing with the

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Speaker 2: conflict of saying no. Or it could be what author

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Speaker 2: doctor Kristen Lee of Psychology Today writes, quote, it signifies

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Speaker 2: a deeper value set. If you're the type that always

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Speaker 2: wants to be there for people you care about, it's

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Speaker 2: because you value relationships. If you're the one at work.

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Speaker 2: Who says yes to every project, it reflects how much

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Speaker 2: you value learning. But when we only say yes, we

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Speaker 2: might be missing chances to invest your time and energy

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Speaker 2: in ways that help us take our values and.

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Speaker 1: Goals to new levels.

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Speaker 2: And it can affect women and those in marginalized communities differently.

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Speaker 3: Right, And we're going to talk a little bit about

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Speaker 3: that in a minute. But first, here's some reasons why

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Speaker 3: people may not say two boundaries. And it includes perfectionism

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Speaker 3: kind of what we're talking about, not wanting to let

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Speaker 3: anyone down, or wanting to be seen as the person

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Speaker 3: who can do everything in anything. And yes, I don't

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Speaker 3: want people to see me being weak. So therefore I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 3: of course I know how to do that. What what

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Speaker 3: does that mean?

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Speaker 2: You know?

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Speaker 3: Just then there's fomo, or the fear of missing out.

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Speaker 3: Don't want to be left out or if you miss

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Speaker 3: something or you get excluded the next time around, which

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Speaker 3: was a big fear As an introvert. I'm like, oh, no,

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Speaker 3: I don't want to go out, but they're gonna not

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Speaker 3: invite me anymore. That's even worse. But on top of yes,

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Speaker 3: there I have friends who absolutely will not say no

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Speaker 3: because they're afraid they're gonna miss out on something significant,

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Speaker 3: and then they're gonna miss out on the conversations later

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Speaker 3: to come is that you do you do? You have fomo?

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Speaker 2: I do have fomo. I think we've talked about this before.

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Speaker 2: I have both fomo. But also like I'm queen at

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Speaker 2: avoidance and going out or doing something is the best

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Speaker 2: way for me, not in a good way, not in

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Speaker 2: a healthy way, but the best way for me to

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Speaker 2: continue my unhealthy habit.

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Speaker 1: Of avoiding whatever it is.

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Speaker 2: Right, So they kind of both come together in a

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Speaker 2: real unnatural way.

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Speaker 1: It's not good help.

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Speaker 3: Yes, I know a lot of people who do that

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Speaker 3: because being alone means you have to think about things. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: maybe it's based on your personality, you know what I'm

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Speaker 3: talking about. Are you an IFJ, well, maybe you have

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Speaker 3: a hard time in settling limits, or if you're an

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Speaker 3: I NFP, you are the example we need to look

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Speaker 3: toward as someone who does who is good at setting

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Speaker 3: boundaries and if they try to force you into something,

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Speaker 3: you're like, nah, I'm good, I'm good. So there's this

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Speaker 3: whole article if you want to go look at it.

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Speaker 3: It's at Personality growth dot Com titled how each personality

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Speaker 3: type handles boundaries, and yeah, if you want to know,

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Speaker 3: and if you know your Myers Brigs personality type, this

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Speaker 3: may tell you what kind of boundaries or lack of

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Speaker 3: boundaries you have, just so you know, or perhaps not

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Speaker 3: being able to differentiate between the emotion of saying no

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Speaker 3: because you feel like you're rejecting someone or turning someone

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Speaker 3: down or they're rejecting you, and the rationality of knowing

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Speaker 3: your limits. So aka, you're the people pleaser, the same

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Speaker 3: kind of perspective of being the perfectionist, but you are

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Speaker 3: scared to tell them no because that means they feel

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Speaker 3: rejected and you, of course have to spare their feelings

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Speaker 3: and you can't say no, and say no means it

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Speaker 3: hurts their feelings, which is not typically true, although sometimes

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Speaker 3: people do feel that way because I feel like that

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Speaker 3: a lot, because I have a fear of rejection. That's

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Speaker 3: a whole different conversation. Of course, there could be more

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Speaker 3: than just these reasons, and there are, but we just

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Speaker 3: wanted to give kind of a few examples of why

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Speaker 3: this could be a problem. But let's talk about the

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Speaker 3: deeper meanings.

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Speaker 2: Yes, according to one SETI, when it comes to setting boundaries. Oftentimes,

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Speaker 2: those who are perceived as less powerful have a harder

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Speaker 2: time in setting them. In a twenty nineteen article in

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Speaker 2: The Swaddle titled how Society makes it difficult for women

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Speaker 2: at minorities to set emotional boundaries, Sadaf Venda talks about

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Speaker 2: the difficulties of women in marginalized communities saying no. They

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Speaker 2: write setting boundaries as to where the self ends and

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Speaker 2: where other people begin. Navigating relationships with this bounce in

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Speaker 2: mind and saying no when necessary is a difficult task,

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Speaker 2: especially for women and people from marginalized communities. They continue

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Speaker 2: on about the difference due to culture, gender, and societal

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Speaker 2: expectations and how these differences can lead to different levels

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Speaker 2: of philosophy when it comes to individualism and collectivism and

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Speaker 2: how that can impact a person's boundaries. For example, when

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Speaker 2: it comes to family, different cultures would dictate absolute loyalty

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Speaker 2: to the detriment of an individual and would have a

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Speaker 2: harder time in setting limits because of that.

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Speaker 3: Right and related to that is a concept known as

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Speaker 3: quote differentiation of self, which was originated by family therapist

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Speaker 3: Murray Bowen. It is described as a quote. A level

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Speaker 3: of the differentiation of self refers to the degree to

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Speaker 3: which a person can think and act for self while

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Speaker 3: in contact with emotionally charged issues. It also refers to

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Speaker 3: the degree which a person can discern between thoughts and feelings,

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Speaker 3: kind of like how we were talking about the people pleaser.

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Speaker 3: At higher levels of differentiation, people maintain separate solid cells

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Speaker 3: under considerable stress and anxiety, they manage their own reactivity

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Speaker 3: and choose thoughtful actions. At lower levels of differentiation, people

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Speaker 3: depend on others to function and they develop significant symptoms

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Speaker 3: under stress. They act often destructfully based on anxious reactions

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Speaker 3: to the environment. Their intellectual reasoning uses with emotionality. Even

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Speaker 3: highly intelligent people can be poorly differentiated. So what they

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Speaker 3: are talking about is this level of having the emotions

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Speaker 3: being disconnected to the reality. And we know that women

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Speaker 3: kind of have been targeted that way, being told you

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Speaker 3: are the nurture, the caregiver, so you should care and

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Speaker 3: you should feel these ways. And we also know that

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Speaker 3: men are told don't that is not mainly feeling feelings

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Speaker 3: is not good. So it kind of has this abuse

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Speaker 3: of power and this differentiation can really impact how you

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Speaker 3: set those boundaries. And for women, well, again it's complicated.

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Speaker 3: Doctor Tamika let explains in one article in the Zoe

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Speaker 3: Report dot com quote, in my opinion, when women say

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Speaker 3: quote I need help or I need a break, we

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Speaker 3: are viewed as a weak or not as competent as

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Speaker 3: our male counterparts, despite not taking care of ourselves, which

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Speaker 3: can result in mental health issues such as anxiety or depression.

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Speaker 3: Women are also seen as liabilities. And again we know

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Speaker 3: the implications of being seen as vulnerable. This is a

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Speaker 3: feminine quality, and this is kind of how it's attributed

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Speaker 3: to weaknesses, especially when it comes to positions of authority. Again,

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Speaker 3: this whole level of that nurture nature, the gendered ideas

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Speaker 3: of emotions, and why that is so harmful at youth. Again,

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Speaker 3: this impacts how we set boundaries and whether or not

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Speaker 3: we can set those boundaries.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, for sure.

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Speaker 2: And I think the socialization aspect is very very important.

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Speaker 2: And I know for me, like because of some of

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Speaker 2: the trauma in my past, I don't even if I

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Speaker 2: want to say no, I don't say it at first,

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Speaker 2: right because it's the safety. It feels like, oh, my city,

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Speaker 2: he's going to get mad, especially as a man involved,

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Speaker 2: he's going to get to talk about Yeah, And so

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Speaker 2: for me like this kind of almost separation of emotions.

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Speaker 1: It's like I feel the emotion and then.

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Speaker 2: I shut it down and just say like O hey, yeah,

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Speaker 2: like bubbly, bubbly, yes.

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Speaker 1: Right, and then later I'm like, oh god no.

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Speaker 3: And honestly, we're going to talk later on about how

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Speaker 3: to set boundaries. But so many of these articles that

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Speaker 3: are referring to women trying to set boundaries teach them

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Speaker 3: how to do it kindly because it is dangers. But

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Speaker 3: again we'll come back to that.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, all right.

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Speaker 2: Therapist Emily Party weighs in on the same article, saying

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Speaker 2: boundary setting phrases like those mentioned above can also sometimes

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Speaker 2: be interpreted as anti feminist. In a society where women

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Speaker 2: have fought so hard to gain equality and opportunity, it

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Speaker 2: could be seen as a step in the wrong direction

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Speaker 2: when a woman acknowledges healthy boundaries and limitations. It's ironic, truly,

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Speaker 2: when the most feminist thing you can do is know

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Speaker 2: yourself well and stand up for your knees, which feels

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Speaker 2: like a damned if you do and damned if you

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Speaker 2: don't situation. And also, yeah, like we talked about in

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Speaker 2: Glennon Doyle's book, that whole idea that women have been

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Speaker 2: taught like selflessness is such a good thing, like that's

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Speaker 2: a value, right, Yeah, setting your boundaries feels like being selfish.

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Speaker 3: Right right, and being able to say no is such

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Speaker 3: a power trip. So therefore again not female enough, are

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Speaker 3: feminine enough, and so therefore all these things. But then

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Speaker 3: again you say that it can also look like it's

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Speaker 3: anti feminists not taking on everything to show that you

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Speaker 3: can take on everything, which is ironic in itself.

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Speaker 2: Yep. So now we're going to talk about masculinity and

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Speaker 2: boundaries because this whole thing could be translated as a

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Speaker 2: perception of power or supremacy and how it plays in

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Speaker 2: setting boundaries. And yes, boundaries are hard to just set

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Speaker 2: for those who are more likely to be oppressed and marginalized,

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Speaker 2: as Vidha says, And I apologize because I think I

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Speaker 2: added a superfluous in my pronunciation earlier, and I hope

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Speaker 2: I'm not butchering it in either case. Anyway, they say,

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Speaker 2: those who have more power in society, like men, build

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Speaker 2: a lot of unwritten rules around themselves, and their time

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Speaker 2: is often treated as a privilege. These powerful sections also

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Speaker 2: ensure that the time and effort of others is seen

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Speaker 2: as disposable, and thus this means these oppressed sections end

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Speaker 2: up doing more of the work, having hardly any emotional

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Speaker 2: and personal boundaries. And what happens when privilege is rejected

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Speaker 2: or limited They push back. As the Bethanywebster dot Com

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Speaker 2: article rites, male fragility has played a role and that

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Speaker 2: women quote have been conditioned to view our needs for

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Speaker 2: boundaries with distrust. Having boundaries, saying no and setting one's

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Speaker 2: own limits has long been associated with being difficult, uppity,

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Speaker 2: or a bit Women who set boundaries have been characterized

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Speaker 2: as being ugly. Femin Nazis are man hating and have

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Speaker 2: been threatened with violence and death.

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Speaker 3: Right and of course there is an actual other side

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Speaker 3: to this. Before we move on, though, we do want

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Speaker 3: to talk about the fact that, yes, this becomes dangerous,

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Speaker 3: and we've talked about this so often that when we

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Speaker 3: put limits in saying no, I'm not interested and we

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Speaker 3: get pushed back on, there is a dangerous precedent. What

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Speaker 3: can we do to make sure that we don't get

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Speaker 3: to that place? And that is oftentimes make up an excuse,

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Speaker 3: try to be kind, all of those things, and try

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Speaker 3: to get out of the situation, because when we do

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Speaker 3: set up boundaries, especially like in the dating world, it

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Speaker 3: becomes a challenge. Yeah, And on the other side, we're

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Speaker 3: gonna talk about the nice guys as in fact, we

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Speaker 3: stumbled upon some articles about how nice guys are asking

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Speaker 3: how to set boundaries with quote flirty women. And when

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Speaker 3: I say flirty, this is in a negative connotation. And

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Speaker 3: y'all we watch these advice videos, so you didn't have

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Speaker 3: to and you shouldn't. And it includes teaching men to

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Speaker 3: put limits in boundaries with quote firmness and through grounding.

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Speaker 3: And according to one video, this is the idea of

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Speaker 3: taking from the bottom half of yourself. And I'm assuming

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Speaker 3: he's talking literally because he talks about don't take it

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Speaker 3: from the trust, pick from a bottom es like what,

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Speaker 3: maybe he's talking about his feet. I'm gonna go with

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Speaker 3: that and really being planted or fill yourself being planted

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Speaker 3: and not quote overreact because if a nice guy overreacts,

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Speaker 3: women will continue to quote poke Adam, which was the phrase.

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Speaker 3: I was really like, what to get a reaction and

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Speaker 3: continually test those boundaries. Now, it may sound like we're

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Speaker 3: being sarcastic. The language of this video and articles, especially

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Speaker 3: when it comes to the pickup artists, who use this

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Speaker 3: keith reinforcing the idea that women are mere property to conquer.

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Speaker 3: Some of the videos we see, I think we're on

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Speaker 3: religious based sites, so talking about being a man and

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Speaker 3: fearlessly conquering your fears, all of these things. It was interesting,

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Speaker 3: and they do talk about why they may be rejected

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Speaker 3: a little bit. And this article that popped up was

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Speaker 3: specifically to the idea of how to deal with women

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Speaker 3: who are degrading towards men or when flirting. I will

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Speaker 3: say again, this article did try to differentiate with the

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Speaker 3: person who was asking the question on whether he was

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Speaker 3: upset about being rejected or the woman was actually being degrading,

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Speaker 3: So at least he questions this. But let's be honest,

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Speaker 3: when it comes to these conversations continue to place a

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Speaker 3: woman at a level of being a prize instead of

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Speaker 3: being a human. So it doesn't really have the connotation

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Speaker 3: that this is a conversation with another person, but about

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Speaker 3: how to kind of control them in this narrative or

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Speaker 3: control the narrative in itself. But there is a whole

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Speaker 3: other point to these types of articles. Misogyny in itself

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Speaker 3: teaches men that setting boundaries, respecting boundaries are a part

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Speaker 3: of a power play. Respecting boundaries is not manly and

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Speaker 3: that women want manly men, of course, and that only

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Speaker 3: men can set these boundaries because once again it's based

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Speaker 3: on privilege and power. When we see it in this context,

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Speaker 3: we know not all men, Okay, we know, but the

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Speaker 3: fact teachings like this are still prevalent. We can't underestimate

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Speaker 3: the level of the need for perceived masculinity, and to

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Speaker 3: do so can be detrimental for all of the marginalized community.

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Speaker 3: And this is why continue to talk about it and

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Speaker 3: why we, yeah, are somewhat dismissive of the not all

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Speaker 3: men because it just takes one man. It just takes

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Speaker 3: that one time for us to underestimate what these conversations

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Speaker 3: can push to.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and continuing the conversation of power and privilege

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Speaker 2: and boundaries, there are many examples of why women continue

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Speaker 2: to be unable to set limits and boundaries. One of

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Speaker 2: the biggest examples is the backlash of saying no. As

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Speaker 2: we talked about earlier, just by rejecting someone, a woman

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Speaker 2: maybe putting themselves in danger, and many have learned throughout

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Speaker 2: their lives our self worth is based on the way

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Speaker 2: we can sacrifice ourselves, meaning in order to show our value,

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Speaker 2: we have to give up ourselves our happiness for the

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Speaker 2: betterment of others. Another great quote. We learned to unconsciously

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Speaker 2: and automatically oppress ourselves and other women as a means

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Speaker 2: of survival. We had to self fragment, disabling our own

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Speaker 2: connection with ourselves to some degree and prioritizing external approval

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Speaker 2: in a world that favors rich white men over everybody else,

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Speaker 2: right and.

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Speaker 3: Daniel Litl Daeper. When it comes to the bipod community,

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Speaker 3: the dangers in past trauma is even greater. Black women

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Speaker 3: have been on the outskirts throughout the centuries when it

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Speaker 3: comes to having their boundaries respected, but have been the

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Speaker 3: ones to fight the hardest to establish it for the

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Speaker 3: sake of the entire community. When the term intersectionality was

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Speaker 3: coined by Kimberly Crenshaw, many pushed back because it meant

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Speaker 3: that those in the hierarchy aka white women, had to

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Speaker 3: admit that their cause was not about equality but more

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Speaker 3: about power for themselves. Not too long ago, black women

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Speaker 3: drew a line in the sand after being continually sidelined

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Speaker 3: or made the token by those who wanted to be

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Speaker 3: considered quote allies.

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Speaker 2: In a twenty nineteen year article written in an injusticemac

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Speaker 2: dot org, one writer says, quote that overfamiliarity was acceptable

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Speaker 2: for white women to display toward black women, and we

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Speaker 2: were meant to simply accept the faux familial connection while

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Speaker 2: simultaneously remembering our place. And they continue in the article,

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Speaker 2: given the history we have slavery and white women's active,

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Speaker 2: yes active role in subjugating, abusing, and dehumanizing Black women

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Speaker 2: during that time, and after we do not feel comfortable,

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Speaker 2: and once we state we don't feel comfortable and they

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Speaker 2: proceed to make it about their emotional distress, it is

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Speaker 2: clear why we feel that way. Even friendships nourished over

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Speaker 2: years have boundaries. Adhering to boundaries shows value and respect

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Speaker 2: for the individual and the relationship. How are we united

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Speaker 2: when our attempts to establish boundaries are disregarded? How can

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Speaker 2: there be respect?

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Speaker 3: Right? And I'm just going to put this out there, true,

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Speaker 3: allyship is not us non black and indigenous women and

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Speaker 3: non binary folks stating that we are allies as this

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Speaker 3: is not a title we can give ourselves. Just a

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Speaker 3: reminder just because you call yourself that does not mean

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Speaker 3: that that's what you are. I know you want to be,

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Speaker 3: but if you truly are an ally you wouldn't have

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Speaker 3: to say that for yourself. And honestly, that term has

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Speaker 3: begun to fade as many people cannot understand the true

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Speaker 3: respont responsibilities of allyship. But about all of this is

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Speaker 3: accepting the boundaries that have been set for us. So

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Speaker 3: when we talked about earlier, yes, we want to learn

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Speaker 3: how to set boundaries for ourselves. A part of this

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Speaker 3: learning is to respect boundaries as well. From that same article,

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Speaker 3: they say if they are fighting for women, that must

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Speaker 3: include all of us, which means combating all aspects of

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Speaker 3: marginalization that women outside of whiteness are subjected to. Because

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Speaker 3: just like your whiteness can often child you from the

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Speaker 3: aspects of sexism, a black woman, a black trans woman

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Speaker 3: will often see the worst because they like the protection

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Speaker 3: of whiteness and they have to contend with anti blackness,

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Speaker 3: misogyn noir and or transphobia. And to add our own

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Speaker 3: trauma to other trauma, proceeds to cross the boundary lines

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Speaker 3: as allies and honestly, as decent humans. This is something

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Speaker 3: that is important that we talk about, especially in a

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Speaker 3: time where everybody is trying to come together for a

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Speaker 3: greater purpose. But the fact of the matter is this

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Speaker 3: intersectional level. Until everyone has equality, then no one has it.

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Speaker 3: And the people who have been fighting the longest and

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00:24:07,760 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 3: the hardest are the ones that we should be listening to,

437
00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,119
Speaker 3: and oftentimes are the ones that are ignored. And just

438
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,520
Speaker 3: because we have good intentions, those good intentions are not

439
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:17,960
Speaker 3: always good.

440
00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:24,000
Speaker 2: And for the bipod community, it has only been more

441
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: clear in the last few years the importance in setting boundaries.

442
00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:30,720
Speaker 2: The pandemic and quarantine has made it clear that so

443
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,800
Speaker 2: often boundaries are pushed past the limits to the detriment

444
00:24:33,960 --> 00:24:38,879
Speaker 2: of marginalized communities. According to another twenty twenty one article, Ethakahinde,

445
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,159
Speaker 2: a licensed therapist, talks about the impact of working from

446
00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,200
Speaker 2: home during the pandemic. With many working from home over

447
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 2: the last year, it has become harder to escape toxic

448
00:24:48,320 --> 00:24:51,359
Speaker 2: workplace culture, which has been particularly hard on black women.

449
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:54,240
Speaker 2: According to a twenty eighteen Women in the Workplace study,

450
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:57,199
Speaker 2: forty percent of black women said they had their judgment

451
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,600
Speaker 2: questioned in their area of expertise while earning all sixty

452
00:25:00,680 --> 00:25:03,480
Speaker 2: seven cents on the dollar compared to what men earned.

453
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,359
Speaker 2: These factors. In other instances of workplace discrimination can cause

454
00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,320
Speaker 2: a major impact on mental health and create a demand

455
00:25:10,359 --> 00:25:14,040
Speaker 2: to separate work from other areas of one's life. Unfortunately,

456
00:25:14,119 --> 00:25:19,919
Speaker 2: quarantine made that much harder, and they continue writing. Coupled

457
00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 2: with everything that's been going on and more awareness around

458
00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,200
Speaker 2: police brutality and racial and systemic injustice, I think it's

459
00:25:26,240 --> 00:25:29,119
Speaker 2: become really important for people to navigate what their limits

460
00:25:29,119 --> 00:25:31,879
Speaker 2: are and how they can help really maintain their identity

461
00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:34,080
Speaker 2: and engage the world around them.

462
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:36,879
Speaker 3: Right and another therapist, Rita Walker, was quoted in the

463
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:41,119
Speaker 3: same article saying these communities disproportionately carry high levels of

464
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,879
Speaker 3: burden with less access to education, housing, economic and political opportunities,

465
00:25:46,119 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 3: while shouldering more violence and disparities in health and well being.

466
00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 3: These communities are resilient, but even resilience has its limits.

467
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,679
Speaker 3: We often get overwhelmed before we know it. When that happens,

468
00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:58,640
Speaker 3: we feel as if we cannot take any more mentally,

469
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 3: because we need our minds to accomplish everything in life.

470
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 3: Is a good idea to protect them before feeling overwhelmed,

471
00:26:04,880 --> 00:26:08,320
Speaker 3: And even if we think we can handle anything, everyone

472
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:11,480
Speaker 3: has a limit. Yeah, and there is a barrier when

473
00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 3: it comes to Black and Indigenous women being able to

474
00:26:14,119 --> 00:26:17,439
Speaker 3: set boundaries, many are criticized for taking a break. A

475
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 3: couple of examples include Naomi Osaka and Simon Biles, who

476
00:26:20,880 --> 00:26:24,040
Speaker 3: are both criticized for stepping back due to their mental health.

477
00:26:24,440 --> 00:26:28,360
Speaker 3: Many accuse them of betraying their country for not willingly

478
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:32,200
Speaker 3: sacrificing their own health for a metal, and many Black

479
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 3: women are characterized as being angry or too sensitive when

480
00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 3: asking simple requests, like using belittling language or appropriating terms

481
00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:41,640
Speaker 3: like sis, which we're going to kind of talk about

482
00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 3: in a minute. But doctor let from the Zoe Report

483
00:26:43,800 --> 00:26:46,320
Speaker 3: that we mentioned earlier, I actually talked of the very

484
00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,000
Speaker 3: situation concerning Oscca and Bials. She says they have both

485
00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:52,879
Speaker 3: put a spotlight on the idea that health is holistic

486
00:26:52,920 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 3: and includes mind, body, and spirit. They've also exposed that

487
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,680
Speaker 3: black women have to work harder at demonstrating their worth

488
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 3: and abilities, which makes them more susceptible to mental health

489
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 3: concerns that are not often addressed due to stigmas surrounding

490
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 3: women and the black and brown communities. And yeah, I

491
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 3: think we need to kind of have that big conversation

492
00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:20,359
Speaker 3: about why we want to demonize someone for our self worth. Again,

493
00:27:20,480 --> 00:27:22,960
Speaker 3: that's the whole different thing. And as we were talking

494
00:27:23,000 --> 00:27:26,000
Speaker 3: about the term CIS last year, there was a black

495
00:27:26,040 --> 00:27:29,640
Speaker 3: TikTok creator who requested white women to not call her

496
00:27:29,760 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 3: CIS and she was met with a lot of angry

497
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,800
Speaker 3: white women who immediately violated that request and went after

498
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,840
Speaker 3: her for that small, simple request. And though we aren't

499
00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,880
Speaker 3: going to talk about the incident too deeply, it's interesting

500
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 3: to look at how quickly allies turned when told they

501
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,959
Speaker 3: do not have the privilege of saying something. And again,

502
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,800
Speaker 3: this has a lot to do with the African American

503
00:27:53,880 --> 00:27:56,359
Speaker 3: vernacular that we have talked about previously, that has been

504
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,439
Speaker 3: addressed previously by other hosts, and why it's important that

505
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,560
Speaker 3: we under stand appreciation versus appropriation. When we had a

506
00:28:03,560 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 3: book club with our guests talking about language and the

507
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,800
Speaker 3: basis and the history of language and a lot of

508
00:28:08,840 --> 00:28:12,200
Speaker 3: it was stolen from black culture, which Black culture has

509
00:28:12,240 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 3: been villainized for and being told they're angry or inappropriate

510
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,760
Speaker 3: or unprofessional. But yet we're taking their language. And this

511
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:21,720
Speaker 3: is one of those moments like you have not earned

512
00:28:21,720 --> 00:28:25,199
Speaker 3: the right to call me sis and appropriately so, and

513
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:28,119
Speaker 3: yet white women coming out of the woodward going. But

514
00:28:28,240 --> 00:28:30,000
Speaker 3: but but why can't.

515
00:28:29,760 --> 00:28:34,480
Speaker 2: I M yeah, I mean I think that whole respecting

516
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 2: of boundaries, like if you want to set your own boundaries,

517
00:28:39,360 --> 00:28:42,400
Speaker 2: you mean to respect other people's boundaries right as well.

518
00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 2: And I think that's so important to remember and even

519
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 2: see that with the pronouns and pronouns right now, and

520
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:57,320
Speaker 2: it feels very It does feel like very weaponized and

521
00:28:57,360 --> 00:29:00,200
Speaker 2: privileged of like where you can't tell me no, do

522
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 2: you know.

523
00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:05,080
Speaker 3: Right, but like happiness, but you can't deny me of

524
00:29:05,120 --> 00:29:08,240
Speaker 3: mine of making you miserable, which yeah, and you know

525
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,320
Speaker 3: this has kind of moved on that TikToker. I believe

526
00:29:10,400 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 3: she erased her content because she was getting so much

527
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 3: flack and even being told that she was too angry

528
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 3: it was so absurd.

529
00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: M m mm hmmm. But yes, as we have said before,

530
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 2: angers is not a bad thing, and therapists can hinde agrees.

531
00:29:27,520 --> 00:29:30,120
Speaker 2: They write, I think that when people experience a black

532
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: woman being angry, it is not random. Oftentimes anger is

533
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 2: a healthy response to someone violating your boundary or being dismissive,

534
00:29:37,720 --> 00:29:40,360
Speaker 2: because we're all entitled to be heard. And I do

535
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: think it really impacts black women and how they engage,

536
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,520
Speaker 2: especially in work. I think in social environments where black

537
00:29:46,560 --> 00:29:50,760
Speaker 2: women and black female identifying individuals engage with others like them,

538
00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 2: there's less of this fear of being angry because they're

539
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,200
Speaker 2: being heard and understood, right.

540
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 3: And Yeah, that's just such a big open conversation of

541
00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:03,959
Speaker 3: what we've been seeing recently of like, Okay, how do

542
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 3: we do better. Let's do better. That's I feel like

543
00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:08,760
Speaker 3: since Annie, you and I have come on to the show,

544
00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,760
Speaker 3: that's kind of been that perspective, like we want to

545
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 3: do better. Let us know when we're doing something that

546
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:17,320
Speaker 3: is inappropriate and or going against our own mission. But

547
00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:20,520
Speaker 3: of course there comes the outrage because you are being

548
00:30:20,600 --> 00:30:22,920
Speaker 3: taken away from something, and these boundaries that we've had

549
00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 3: to set for ourselves, even when it comes to the show,

550
00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 3: like yes, if we've responded to you maybe because yeah,

551
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,360
Speaker 3: thank you so much for clarifying and let it get

552
00:30:31,440 --> 00:30:35,600
Speaker 3: us know, versus you feeling offended because we're calling you in.

553
00:30:36,040 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 3: That's a whole different conversation and setting that boundary of

554
00:30:38,720 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 3: like we're not going to engage in toxicity for the

555
00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 3: sake of your entertainment. And that's kind of where we

556
00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,120
Speaker 3: are seeing these the boundary is we all want our

557
00:30:48,120 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 3: boundaries to be met and or respected. That means we

558
00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,240
Speaker 3: also have to respect others, even if it makes you

559
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:58,720
Speaker 3: uncomfortable or makes you feel like, oh, you did something wrong,

560
00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:01,160
Speaker 3: Because there are moments it is again a call in,

561
00:31:01,320 --> 00:31:03,680
Speaker 3: and you need to consider about why that feels like

562
00:31:03,680 --> 00:31:04,160
Speaker 3: a call in.

563
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,720
Speaker 1: Mm hmm, yeah.

564
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:22,400
Speaker 5: Yeah.

565
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 3: So we've gone through some of the reasons why boundaries

566
00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 3: are important and how setting boundaries or respecting boundaries again

567
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:33,280
Speaker 3: can be difficult. So let's talk about how to set boundaries.

568
00:31:33,280 --> 00:31:35,640
Speaker 3: And we're not going to go completely into it. We're

569
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:37,240
Speaker 3: just going to give you a few things that we

570
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 3: have read from different articles and may be helpful.

571
00:31:40,720 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: One big thing is figuring out what is important to you?

572
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 2: Is it something that is of value to you? And

573
00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,959
Speaker 2: just kind of I feel like I've talked a lot

574
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: about mindfulness since the pandemic, but it's kind of that

575
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:56,120
Speaker 2: it's like sitting there and thinking, Okay, what, why am

576
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 2: I saying yes when maybe I didn't want to say yes?

577
00:31:58,480 --> 00:31:59,080
Speaker 1: What is important?

578
00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 2: Where do I really want to lay down this boundary?

579
00:32:01,800 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: And why is that?

580
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 3: Yeah? Is it not a big deal? Okay? Cool? Is

581
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 3: it going to set a precedent. Okay. Also, you could

582
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,920
Speaker 3: start learning some new phrases to say no or no

583
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 3: thing or maybe not today type of way, and here

584
00:32:14,920 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 3: are some examples from the Zoe Report and Psychology Today. Annie,

585
00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:20,920
Speaker 3: We're going to practice you ready, Okay, So I'm gonna

586
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,640
Speaker 3: start so ready, I'm going to say it. I'll get

587
00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:24,360
Speaker 3: back to you.

588
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: That won't work for me.

589
00:32:27,080 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 3: I'm not going to take that on right now.

590
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:30,080
Speaker 1: Thank you for asking.

591
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 3: But no, well, I will need help with this.

592
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:33,959
Speaker 1: I need a break.

593
00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've changed my mind.

594
00:32:36,280 --> 00:32:38,520
Speaker 2: I'm not comfortable with that.

595
00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 3: That sounds like a great opportunity and I want to help,

596
00:32:41,720 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 3: but is it okay if I think about it for

597
00:32:44,040 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: a while.

598
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 2: I'd love to, but I know I'm over committed and

599
00:32:47,160 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 2: won't be able to give this the time it deserves.

600
00:32:51,560 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 3: So obviously we're very specific, but yeah, there are ways. Again,

601
00:32:54,960 --> 00:32:57,040
Speaker 3: this is kind of again that whole like being polite,

602
00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:01,160
Speaker 3: and there's nothing wrong with being polite, but again I

603
00:33:01,200 --> 00:33:03,960
Speaker 3: am interested to know who was being polite and who

604
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 3: was just being blunt.

605
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,320
Speaker 1: Right, And I'm also curious.

606
00:33:07,440 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 2: This is kind of reminding me of the conversation we

607
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:17,720
Speaker 2: had around strategic incompetence when people are like not being

608
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,160
Speaker 2: honest and genuine when they say things like this, or

609
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 2: because it kind of it's again that flip side the corn.

610
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: It's very complicated. But it's also like my mom. I

611
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: have talked about this before, but it's kind of interesting

612
00:33:30,880 --> 00:33:34,880
Speaker 2: because there are some things that because of when, when

613
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:37,719
Speaker 2: and how she was raised, she's learning after me and

614
00:33:37,760 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 2: this is kind of one. And she struggles really hard

615
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,440
Speaker 2: with saying no, and I learned from her, but I

616
00:33:44,440 --> 00:33:46,400
Speaker 2: think I've like kind of surpassed her. And I was

617
00:33:46,440 --> 00:33:49,680
Speaker 2: telling her sometimes if I know a conversation and I

618
00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:52,480
Speaker 2: it's going to involve that, and I'm worried that I'm

619
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:54,000
Speaker 2: going to give in and I really don't want to,

620
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,880
Speaker 2: I'll like write out a freakin script. I will write

621
00:33:56,920 --> 00:33:59,800
Speaker 2: something out. I will have bullet points on my hand

622
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:04,440
Speaker 2: like it's kind of it sounds silly like reading these things,

623
00:34:04,480 --> 00:34:06,520
Speaker 2: it's like you can't just do that right.

624
00:34:06,560 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 1: Sometimes you need it right.

625
00:34:08,680 --> 00:34:12,719
Speaker 3: I have definitely practiced beforehand of what more do you

626
00:34:12,760 --> 00:34:15,040
Speaker 3: say in the car as I'm driving having a full

627
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,320
Speaker 3: long conversation with myself.

628
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 2: Oh meat, all right, So back to some other smother

629
00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:27,000
Speaker 2: tips that we found taking a look at the big picture.

630
00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:31,719
Speaker 2: Is it something you need to do right now? Can

631
00:34:31,760 --> 00:34:34,520
Speaker 2: you kind of push it down the line, deal with it?

632
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 3: Does it help you, does it help anyone? Or is

633
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 3: it just something that people are using you for. Be honest,

634
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:44,160
Speaker 3: let people know when you need a break, don't ignore

635
00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:45,880
Speaker 3: when you feel overwhelmed. And I think that's one of

636
00:34:45,920 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 3: the things is we're not honest when with ourselves when

637
00:34:48,520 --> 00:34:51,200
Speaker 3: we come to that breaking point until it's too late.

638
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 3: And again that's the same thing of being mindful. Just

639
00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:57,640
Speaker 3: really listen to that. Oh yeah, I'm hitting that wall.

640
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 3: I'm gonna need before I lose it, and friends, I'm

641
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:02,320
Speaker 3: going to need to take a step back.

642
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:03,200
Speaker 5: Yeah.

643
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: I mean that's a great way to look at it

644
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:08,000
Speaker 2: is you don't want to have a meltdown and then

645
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 2: hurt somebody. And I think one of the things we

646
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 2: haven't really touched on in this episode but is sort

647
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 2: of on the outskirts. I think a lot of acid

648
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:18,759
Speaker 2: to do with self esteem, at least when it comes

649
00:35:18,800 --> 00:35:20,320
Speaker 2: to women. So for me, I don't have the A

650
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 2: lot of times I don't have the self esteem.

651
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,359
Speaker 1: I'm not worth saying no.

652
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:27,360
Speaker 2: They want to do it, and they I want to

653
00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,439
Speaker 2: make them happy because they're better than me. So kind

654
00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 2: of like telling yourself, now, if you want to stay

655
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:35,040
Speaker 2: in read that fan fiction, then do it.

656
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,040
Speaker 1: Then do it. I say.

657
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,360
Speaker 2: Also find where you need to set boundaries. Is it

658
00:35:41,360 --> 00:35:44,480
Speaker 2: in your work life, your love life, Many aspects of

659
00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:46,160
Speaker 2: your life could.

660
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:50,279
Speaker 3: Be Yeah, and if you can get connected, whether it's

661
00:35:50,320 --> 00:35:54,239
Speaker 3: through therapy or a support group. And there's a lot

662
00:35:54,280 --> 00:35:56,560
Speaker 3: of bad friends out there, but there's a lot of

663
00:35:56,600 --> 00:35:58,919
Speaker 3: great friends out there too, and hopefully you are able

664
00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,839
Speaker 3: to connect with those people who will also tell you, hey,

665
00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,720
Speaker 3: you're you sure you want to do all these things.

666
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:07,319
Speaker 3: It's just kind of running yourself tooth and you might

667
00:36:07,360 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 3: not want to do this. Those are the friends you need.

668
00:36:10,239 --> 00:36:13,040
Speaker 3: And sometimes it's nice to have someone as a sounding

669
00:36:13,080 --> 00:36:15,040
Speaker 3: board of like is this too much or is this

670
00:36:15,120 --> 00:36:17,040
Speaker 3: not enough? Type of conversation.

671
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:22,080
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, And again remember we need to learn to

672
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:26,040
Speaker 2: respect people's boundaries, listen when they are letting you in.

673
00:36:26,280 --> 00:36:28,040
Speaker 2: If you want to be an advocate, make sure you

674
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:30,520
Speaker 2: are listening and not putting words into other people's mouths

675
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,680
Speaker 2: and adding more work for others. Google is an amazing

676
00:36:33,719 --> 00:36:36,840
Speaker 2: tool for learning and there are so many great resources

677
00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:39,960
Speaker 2: out there for that. Sometimes it does feel really funny

678
00:36:40,080 --> 00:36:42,440
Speaker 2: again kind of looking up these sort of basic keep

679
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 2: and truths, but it makes sense, Like you know, people

680
00:36:46,040 --> 00:36:47,600
Speaker 2: are complicated.

681
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,799
Speaker 3: All right, And honestly, when it comes to when we

682
00:36:49,840 --> 00:36:52,439
Speaker 3: talk about social justice work and we were talking about

683
00:36:52,440 --> 00:36:55,719
Speaker 3: wanting to be good people and good advocates, there is

684
00:36:55,760 --> 00:36:59,160
Speaker 3: work out there. We have read several books and if

685
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:01,359
Speaker 3: you want to go through our book club list, there

686
00:37:01,360 --> 00:37:05,600
Speaker 3: are amazing books out there, resources that already exist, yep,

687
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:09,480
Speaker 3: where you don't have to tax other people to do

688
00:37:09,520 --> 00:37:11,719
Speaker 3: the same work when you can do it yourself.

689
00:37:12,600 --> 00:37:18,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, definitely, definitely, Yeah, all of this, all of this

690
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:21,080
Speaker 2: can be healthy if you're doing it in a productive manner.

691
00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:24,200
Speaker 2: And by the way, there are toxic boundary settings that

692
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 2: happen as well. Again refer back to boundaries and bipoc

693
00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:32,759
Speaker 2: community and toxic masculinity and yes, strategic and competence. Perhaps yes,

694
00:37:32,880 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 2: and boundaries can help you avoid burnout and have a

695
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:40,880
Speaker 2: better sense of identity and yeah, even build better self esteem.

696
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:46,319
Speaker 3: Right, and boundaries are different for different people. From Better

697
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:50,440
Speaker 3: a Humans Dot pub article titled how to Set Healthy

698
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:55,400
Speaker 3: Boundaries A Compassionate Guide for Women, writer Julia Horvath writes, quote,

699
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:58,360
Speaker 3: boundaries exist on a skill for each person, and we

700
00:37:58,440 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 3: all have to find our own middle ground. And I

701
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,759
Speaker 3: think that's a good conversation to have. Not everyone has

702
00:38:04,800 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 3: the same level or limits and it looks differently for them.

703
00:38:08,440 --> 00:38:11,480
Speaker 3: And continue to ask questions for yourself, learn about your

704
00:38:11,520 --> 00:38:14,720
Speaker 3: own limits and how to best set them, but also

705
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:18,040
Speaker 3: understand that, yeah, community is a good thing. There is

706
00:38:18,080 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 3: a healthy boundary, there's a healthy middle ground that we

707
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 3: need to find when seeking help. Again, don't use your

708
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:29,720
Speaker 3: friends necessarily to the point that you're pushing them away.

709
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 5: Yeah.

710
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:32,920
Speaker 3: You know, when I would mention that I was a

711
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 3: social worker, I got a lot of interesting reactions and

712
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,440
Speaker 3: I would have to set boundaries to be like, maybe

713
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:41,319
Speaker 3: you should talk to your therapists about that. And not

714
00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:43,319
Speaker 3: that I didn't have many friends who did that, but

715
00:38:43,520 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 3: I had strangers roommates that I wasn't closer that would

716
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:50,080
Speaker 3: do things like does this sound normal? Does this sound like? Okay?

717
00:38:50,160 --> 00:38:53,360
Speaker 3: I don't get me wrong, I love analyzing, but being

718
00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:58,400
Speaker 3: constantly on just taxing and yeah, that's that same level

719
00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 3: as understanding middle ground for yourself. I know, sometimes it's

720
00:39:02,400 --> 00:39:04,760
Speaker 3: really hard because you want to be a helpful person

721
00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 3: and you feel like you owe that to someone, but

722
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 3: you know, yeah, there's a certain point that you need

723
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:12,840
Speaker 3: to have a moment for yourself.

724
00:39:12,960 --> 00:39:13,760
Speaker 1: Yeah.

725
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, this is, like many of our conversations, is very

726
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,480
Speaker 2: nuanced because it's also like who are you actually trying

727
00:39:20,480 --> 00:39:20,839
Speaker 2: to help?

728
00:39:21,120 --> 00:39:22,000
Speaker 3: Are you like me?

729
00:39:22,160 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 2: Are you trying to avoid something and you're pouring that

730
00:39:24,680 --> 00:39:26,600
Speaker 2: into helping someone who doesn't want your help?

731
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:30,759
Speaker 1: You know, just good questions.

732
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:34,520
Speaker 2: Yes, And I know in a lot of past episodes

733
00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:36,279
Speaker 2: we didn't talk about it too much in this, but

734
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 2: a lot of you have written in about setting boundaries

735
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 2: with family, so I know that is a a big

736
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:45,000
Speaker 2: piece of this too. And yeah, taking that time to

737
00:39:45,080 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 2: learn your boundaries and how to set them in a

738
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:48,160
Speaker 2: healthy way is so important.

739
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: And if you have any tips you'd like to share.

740
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,280
Speaker 2: Again, not everything works the same for everybody'd be different,

741
00:39:55,560 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 2: but if you have anything you'd like to share, any

742
00:39:57,560 --> 00:39:59,800
Speaker 2: resources you'd like to share, you know, we love the

743
00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 2: You can email us at Stephanie and Momsteph at iHeartMedia

744
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:04,480
Speaker 2: dot com. You can find us on Twitter at mom

745
00:40:04,480 --> 00:40:06,719
Speaker 2: Stuff Podcast or on Instagram at Stuff Whenever Told You.

746
00:40:06,960 --> 00:40:09,719
Speaker 2: Thanks as always to our super producer, Christina, Thank you,

747
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,040
Speaker 2: and thanks to you for listening stefan Ertel's protection of iHeartRadio.

748
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 2: For more podcast on iHeartRadio, visit the iHeart Radio app,

749
00:40:15,360 --> 00:40:17,560
Speaker 2: Apple podcast or where you listen to your favorite shows,