Speaker 1: Patriots Catch twenty two. We'll join Evan Lazar and Alex
Speaker 1: Bart every Thursday as they take a deep dive into
Speaker 1: the ex of the o's trends and latest New England
Speaker 1: Patriots roster moves.
Speaker 2: And I'm usually into the numbers. Okay, we do this.
Speaker 2: I'm into the tangible numbers.
Speaker 3: There's there's tame here. Just give me.
Speaker 2: There's the advantage fact you haven't know how to work it.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised an old man over here. I thought maybe
Speaker 2: I'd have to show you, like a pictorial or something.
Speaker 1: How am I old man? Search for Patriots Catch twenty two?
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Speaker 4: I'm Patriots Playbook where Legends are barn John Roop brings
Speaker 4: the heat, rain or storm from Brady's Throast to New Stars.
Speaker 4: Razin the playbook Soap and it's so Maya's Morazin into the.
Speaker 5: Playbook Patriots Playbook.
Speaker 4: Here's your host, John Rook, legend voice of the Patriots.
Speaker 3: First. No, it's it's bye week, which means, of course
Speaker 3: there's no game to talk about. But that doesn't mean
Speaker 3: we don't have playbook. That doesn't mean that we're not
Speaker 3: doing stuff in here today. And we are doing stuff
Speaker 3: in here today we walk you here into the program.
Speaker 3: I am John Rook that that version's growing on me. Marine,
Speaker 3: It's grown on me a little bit. Did I have
Speaker 3: a little I don't know. I don't. I'm not really
Speaker 3: good with my country in western uh stars. But does
Speaker 3: that have a little Jason Aldean to it? I don't know.
Speaker 3: Do you know, Evan? I like Johnny Cash. I guess
Speaker 3: Johnny Cash got at it. It's got a little twang.
Speaker 2: But I'm just like, I'm not a country guy either.
Speaker 2: I just bought my Kendrick Lamar tickets earlier.
Speaker 3: Did you really? Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, as soon as they went on sale. Didn't even
Speaker 2: ask the missus. I texted her. I was like, I
Speaker 2: bought tickets tickets, didn't even ask. That wasn't this is
Speaker 2: a non negotiable.
Speaker 3: Not well, at least you recognize that. Yeah, and so
Speaker 3: you earn an a for recognition in that regard.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a few artists that if they come here,
Speaker 2: it's not negotiable on the list.
Speaker 3: Well, I was that way with the Rolling Stones this summer.
Speaker 2: That's fair.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you know, I mean far be from
Speaker 3: me to want to watch you know, three eighty year
Speaker 3: Olds get up on stage in rock. But they were dynamic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, I've heard them. I've never been to one
Speaker 2: of their concerts, but we are lucky that we sometimes
Speaker 2: get to hear the sound.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And I was like, wow, these guys they still.
Speaker 3: Rockill got it, Yeah, they still so. I was really
Speaker 3: thrilled with that. I thought that was actually money will spend,
Speaker 3: especially since their quote unquote farewell tour and anybody that
Speaker 3: says it's a farewell tour I'm doing. I did Electric
Speaker 3: Live Orchestra ELO at the TD Garden in the fall
Speaker 3: back in September. It was magnificent. Yeah, magnificent. Of course.
Speaker 3: You know, now we're you know, definitely aging myself here
Speaker 3: because they were big when I was in high school
Speaker 3: back in the seventies. And but jeff Lynn, you know,
Speaker 3: traveling Willbury, you know, for those of you might be
Speaker 3: a little later generation. He was a part of that group,
Speaker 3: you know, when the nineties, but everybody started, you know,
Speaker 3: passing away. But he was fabulous, absolutely fair. I mean,
Speaker 3: first of all, they didn'tven look like he he am
Speaker 3: gray hair. I don't know if he I couldn't tell
Speaker 3: from where I was sitting if it was hair dye
Speaker 3: or he just takes care of himself well, you know,
Speaker 3: which is sort of an anomaly I think for most
Speaker 3: rock stars, unless, of course, you're Keith Richards, who clearly
Speaker 3: has a deal with the devil one or the other. Right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, my father is a really big Beg's fan, like massive,
Speaker 2: and so we went and saw Barry Gibb still performs.
Speaker 3: Oh wow, now I would have done that. I would
Speaker 3: have totally done that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so my whole family went for his birthday because
Speaker 2: he's just the biggest Beg's fan on the planet, and
Speaker 2: Barry Gibb brought the house down. I believe it too.
Speaker 3: Well, I'm not gonna lie. I think that's cool. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it is cool. It's totally cool. Besides, when the Beg's
Speaker 3: were spot were popular in the seventies, Oh man, chicks
Speaker 3: dug the Beg's, So if you know, wanted to date
Speaker 3: then other things, you had to be on the dance
Speaker 3: floor with a VJs. Am I lying to anybody here?
Speaker 2: No, I'm I. You know, I can't be my father's
Speaker 2: son and say I'm not a Beg's fan. So okay,
Speaker 2: I know a lot of their songs just from being
Speaker 2: in the car with him, you know, as a kid.
Speaker 2: So absolutely a great concert.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that's fabulous.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So anytime I get a chance to hear a group
Speaker 3: from that era seventies, eighties and even a little bit
Speaker 3: into the nineties, I gotta go. I mean I have
Speaker 3: to go. I have to admit that, you know, I
Speaker 3: know we're completely starting off, you know, the tangent here.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, it's bye week, Okay, so
Speaker 3: give us a break here for just a second. Then
Speaker 3: we'll talk into all stuff that.
Speaker 2: It's football.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know it's football. It's still football season probably now. See,
Speaker 3: now I've had a senior moment. I forgot what the
Speaker 3: hell I was gonna say something about concerts, something about concerts.
Speaker 3: What was I gonna say about concerts? Can you read
Speaker 3: my mind? Going back to Kendrick Lamar, Tell me what
Speaker 3: I'm thinking right now?
Speaker 1: Marine, Okay, you're thinking you want eminem here in twenty
Speaker 1: twenty six.
Speaker 2: No, there's people in this building, Marine, I won't name names,
Speaker 2: but every once in a while he comes in this
Speaker 2: studio and does a Madden sim with you. Every once
Speaker 2: in a while that thinks that Drake won. They're rappief
Speaker 2: between him and Kendrick Lamar, which is just that's a
Speaker 2: spicy hot take. What that's an incorrect take?
Speaker 3: Well, we work with idiots.
Speaker 2: I didn't call him that.
Speaker 3: All right, Okay, we'll move on. Hey, Patriots fans, you
Speaker 3: want to see Toyota's best offers, including those not seen
Speaker 3: on TV. Go to buy a Toyota dot Com is
Speaker 3: Toytot's official website for deals from the official vehicle of
Speaker 3: the New England Patriots, Toyota. Let's go places. Where are
Speaker 3: we gonna go today? Well, besides Evan of course being here.
Speaker 3: Russell Baxter will join us at the top of the
Speaker 3: or at the second half of the hour. Number two.
Speaker 3: Karen Grigian, who longtime Patriots writer and columnista now with
Speaker 3: Masslive dot com. She'll join us in about an hour.
Speaker 3: We're also gonna hear from Matt Saint Jean. He's one
Speaker 3: of the hosts of the Pats Nation podcast on CLNS,
Speaker 3: also a writer for Pat's Pulpit, so you've probably seen
Speaker 3: his work. I know Matt, good young kid. He's a
Speaker 3: Providence College graduate, so how bad can he be? Right?
Speaker 3: You know? But he is really up on his football.
Speaker 3: I think he's very engaging I enjoy his work, and
Speaker 3: we thought we'd also take a little bit of time
Speaker 3: here during the bye week to hear from some of
Speaker 3: the others that cover the team besides what we would
Speaker 3: call mainstream media, because I think there's a lot of
Speaker 3: good takes out there. And one of the things that
Speaker 3: I want to really ask everybody today, all right, is
Speaker 3: I want you to come up with three things at
Speaker 3: this juncture, because I know we're all disappointed. You can't
Speaker 3: not be a fan and not be disappointed. At three
Speaker 3: and ten, I thought this team was better than you know,
Speaker 3: four and thirteen a year ago. Looks like they're going
Speaker 3: to be really hard pressed to even reach four and thirteen,
Speaker 3: much less beat it. I thought this was a five
Speaker 3: or a six win team this year looks like I'm
Speaker 3: gonna miss that mark by just a little bit. So
Speaker 3: in light of not meeting even our lower end expectations. Okay,
Speaker 3: I want you, and I'll ask you about it in
Speaker 3: a second, but I want really uh listeners today to
Speaker 3: identify one good thing they're like, Okay, one good thing
Speaker 3: you like about the way this team is headed, uh,
Speaker 3: A player, a coach, whatever it might be. One good
Speaker 3: thing I want you to identify one bad thing. We're
Speaker 3: gonna go. Uh you know old Western movies here, one good,
Speaker 3: one bad, and one ugly. Okay, so I need a good'n,
Speaker 3: I need a bad un and I need an uly.
Speaker 3: Exactly what was the movie? What was the movie where
Speaker 3: the cheerleaders did the the chant, uh you g l y,
Speaker 3: you ain't gotten a la by your ugly. Your mama
Speaker 3: say you ugly? Bring it on? Yeah?
Speaker 6: Was it?
Speaker 3: Bring it on? Yeah? Is that what it was? Yeah?
Speaker 2: If I didn't get that, you know, I would have
Speaker 2: said it a second later. Yeah, you can't.
Speaker 3: We used to do that chant in high school, in college.
Speaker 3: The chance that the cheer has been around forever. But
Speaker 3: when I was watching the game all right, you know,
Speaker 3: this past weekend, and and calling the game this past weekend,
Speaker 3: and sitting there just you know, cringing because I knew,
Speaker 3: I knew when when the Colts were halfway through that
Speaker 3: nineteen play drive, I just said, I looked over at
Speaker 3: at uh Miss Robin, who spots for me in the booth,
Speaker 3: and I looked over at Coop, who was the audio
Speaker 3: two in the booth who comes in and sits with
Speaker 3: us for about the last you know, half of the
Speaker 3: last quarter before postgame gets started, and I look at
Speaker 3: both of them. I said, they're going to Scoore or aren't
Speaker 3: they touchdown? Right? Two points? Right? Yeah, they're going to
Speaker 3: school right. They both said, uh huh uh huh. We
Speaker 3: felt it coming, Yeah, we felt it coming. You just
Speaker 3: knew it was gonna happen because you had no confidence
Speaker 3: and no faith that this team would be able to
Speaker 3: find a way. And that really is why this team
Speaker 3: is three and ten. I still think there's some talent here, Okay,
Speaker 3: not enough, and I think we can all agree on that.
Speaker 3: We've been talking about that all season long. There's some
Speaker 3: talent here, but that talent is not able to break through.
Speaker 3: And there are probably a couple of significant reasons why
Speaker 3: the talent that's here is not able to get through.
Speaker 3: And frankly, it starts with coaching, and it starts with mentoring,
Speaker 3: and it starts with attention to detail, it starts with discipline.
Speaker 3: It's all that stuff that coaches are largely responsible for. Now.
Speaker 3: I don't put a lot of the blame at the
Speaker 3: coach's feet because I think, first of all, this is
Speaker 3: professional football. We should be past the teaching stage and
Speaker 3: the basic concepts of what to do and what not
Speaker 3: to do should have already be taught. And if they're
Speaker 3: not taught and they're not getting through like Vederian low
Speaker 3: holding and jumping off sides. And I mean, guys, if
Speaker 3: you can't figure it out, there's the unemployment line. We're
Speaker 3: gonna pull somebody else in here.
Speaker 2: Now.
Speaker 3: Invariably that'll likely happen to the off season for a
Speaker 3: lot of these guys. But my issue is is that
Speaker 3: it shouldn't be happening. Now. Why am I getting a
Speaker 3: call from Utah? Are you looking at me? Well? Now, now,
Speaker 3: we played somebody from Utah last night at the amp, right, Oh,
Speaker 3: I hope I didn't, like, you know, insult anybody. Did
Speaker 3: you hear what the Providence students were doing last night?
Speaker 3: Did you hear those cheers? Did you hear those chants? No?
Speaker 3: I didn't. I didn't either because I had a headset song.
Speaker 3: It didn't here. But they were not being kind to Mormons,
Speaker 3: I know. No, I mean, I'm just you know, I'm
Speaker 3: just like, first of all, consider the landscape. You're in
Speaker 3: a sold out building. Uh, you got a you know,
Speaker 3: an eight thirty start. So fans and students have had
Speaker 3: a chance to get okay, you know, lots of tall
Speaker 3: boys being sold right, so you know, hey, some people
Speaker 3: just aren't as mature as others. It's what I can
Speaker 3: tell you. I wasn't as mature when I was twenty
Speaker 3: as I am now. I wouldn't say I'm very mature
Speaker 3: at all anyway right now, to be honest with you,
Speaker 3: because I like to have fun. I just know when
Speaker 3: to have it. I would say that was largely inappropriate,
Speaker 3: and Providence Analytic director had to come out and go
Speaker 3: out on Twitter today or x and basically apologize for
Speaker 3: the entire student body. It's not a direct reflection of
Speaker 3: everybody that's in that building, but you know, hey, it's
Speaker 3: just hey, you learn to go and do and hopefully
Speaker 3: you're held responsible for your actions. I would hold the
Speaker 3: players responsible for their actions, and if they're not doing
Speaker 3: what they're supposed to be doing, then somebody else has
Speaker 3: got to. I realize you can't make wholesale changes with
Speaker 3: the fifty three man roster. So the first thing that
Speaker 3: I you know that I would, you know, like to
Speaker 3: propose for future years, especially if you know we're going
Speaker 3: to an eighteenth game, especially if you know expansion, which
Speaker 3: has been talked about as well in the NFL. In
Speaker 3: getting beyond where we are now, you got to increase
Speaker 3: roster sizes, heavan, you just have to. I think that
Speaker 3: would be a way at very least to keep healthy
Speaker 3: bodies around on the roster and be able to have
Speaker 3: some versatility for that roster. When guys do screw up
Speaker 3: or they do, you know, there's at least somebody holding
Speaker 3: their feet to the fire and say, well, if I
Speaker 3: don't do this the right way, somebody else is going
Speaker 3: to take my job.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Does that make any sense?
Speaker 2: It does, I think right now. You know, just on
Speaker 2: that point, the positions that the Patriots are currently short at,
Speaker 2: especially on the offense side of the ball. I wouldn't
Speaker 2: say so much on defense, but offensive tackle in general.
Speaker 2: Around the league, the play is down and there aren't
Speaker 2: there is not a surplus of tackles laying around. And
Speaker 2: it stands the reason that there aren't a whole lot
Speaker 2: of guys that are six six, three hundred and thirty
Speaker 2: pound that can move like ballerinas like that, just that
Speaker 2: those types of people just don't grow on trees. So
Speaker 2: there's not a lot of tackles. You know, I'll give
Speaker 2: you an example, on a good team like Kansas City
Speaker 2: right now, can't block anybody on the edge right like,
Speaker 2: they have huge tackle problems. And they're the Kansas City
Speaker 2: Chiefs the two times is defending Super Bowl champions. So
Speaker 2: it's not just the Patriots. There are teams with good
Speaker 2: offensive lines that are are good teams Detroit, Philadelphia, you know,
Speaker 2: teams like that. But for the most part right now,
Speaker 2: expanding rosters or pulling Caleb Jones off the practice squad
Speaker 2: or whatever the case may be, Like, these options are
Speaker 2: just not any better. I know, it feels like it
Speaker 2: can't be any worse, and you might as well, but
Speaker 2: they're not any better, you know. Vaderian Lowe, we we've
Speaker 2: disagreed a little bit on Vederian low I feel like
Speaker 2: all season and Miami was a debacle for him. You know,
Speaker 2: obviously with all the penalties pre snap penalties and things
Speaker 2: like that. I thought he was better in this game,
Speaker 2: you know, the in terms of that, right, no false
Speaker 2: starts for him this game, the holding. You know, Drake
Speaker 2: may left the pocket and the tackles have to learn
Speaker 2: now that Drake is going to move around back there,
Speaker 2: and so when he leaves the pocket, you can't go
Speaker 2: grabbing people because he's leaving the pocket. So that's what
Speaker 2: that hold was.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 2: You used to see this all the time with the
Speaker 2: Seahawks with Russell Wilson back in the day. They would
Speaker 2: get flagged a lot on the offensive line because Wilson's
Speaker 2: running around back there and they don't know where he is,
Speaker 2: you know there they don't have eyes in the back
Speaker 2: of their head, so they don't they don't know where
Speaker 2: he is. But I thought from a block to block basis,
Speaker 2: Vederian Lowe was okay in this game. I thought really
Speaker 2: the offensive line as a whole was okay in this game,
Speaker 2: outside of Lady Robinson, who's a rookie and you know,
Speaker 2: is in that developmental phases or rookie.
Speaker 3: Did you think though that maybe uh, releasing Michael Jordan,
Speaker 3: as they've done now from the practice squad as well,
Speaker 3: after signing him back at first day, he's starting, then
Speaker 3: he's demoted, then he's resigned with the practice squad, then
Speaker 3: he's cut out, Right, Wasn't that kind of like the
Speaker 3: on the baby out with the bath water. I mean,
Speaker 3: you know, I realized they really like Leydon Robinson, even
Speaker 3: though Robinson was one of, if not the lowest rated
Speaker 3: offensive lineman in the NFL last week by PFF. And
Speaker 3: I'm like, okay, so why did they get rid of
Speaker 3: a guy who started all these games when they could
Speaker 3: have kept him on at least for insurance for the
Speaker 3: last four weeks. Didn't make any sense to me.
Speaker 2: So I think that the biggest thing is is that
Speaker 2: they obviously want to get Leyden Robinson reps and get
Speaker 2: him experienced.
Speaker 3: But to cut a guy, what if Laydon Robinson gets
Speaker 3: hurt this week?
Speaker 2: Well well, I also think that they they feel like
Speaker 2: Cold Strange is nearing a return as well. And so
Speaker 2: when you have Robinson Strange in city, so you're now
Speaker 2: talking about three guards that you've drafted recently, relatively high
Speaker 2: on all three of those guys, You're at this point
Speaker 2: in the season at three and ten, like, just play
Speaker 2: one of the kids, you know, and see what happens there.
Speaker 2: I asked Alex van Pelt last week, I want to say,
Speaker 2: you know, what, is there is there one thing with
Speaker 2: the pass protection that you point at that's that's like
Speaker 2: the biggest issue right now. Everybody loses blocks and things
Speaker 2: like that, But is there a common thread to any
Speaker 2: of the issues, and the thing that he mentioned was
Speaker 2: picking up stunts, you know, postline movement like stunts, picks
Speaker 2: that that type of stuff, And I would say that
Speaker 2: Michael Jordan was probably the biggest issue on a lot
Speaker 2: of those and so that it made sense that he
Speaker 2: was the one to go after getting that comment from
Speaker 2: Van Pelt that they feel like that's their biggest issue
Speaker 2: right now is picking up you know, those moving parts
Speaker 2: on the defensive line. And the guy that seemed to
Speaker 2: stand out as the biggest issue with that is no
Speaker 2: longer on the team. So maybe that was part of
Speaker 2: the reason for it as well, just from an actual
Speaker 2: film perspective of like why Michael Jordan was benched and
Speaker 2: eventually let go.
Speaker 3: You know, we've been told that, you know, Cole Strange
Speaker 3: is working his way back, but with very little time
Speaker 3: left to go, is he going.
Speaker 2: To expect him to be activated here before his window
Speaker 2: is up? I mean, Girod Mayo keeps saying that he's
Speaker 2: going to play this year. The question that I have
Speaker 2: is where is he going to play? Because you're not
Speaker 2: moving on WHENU that that's for certain at this point.
Speaker 2: They want to get Laden Robinson all this experience, so
Speaker 2: really the spot is center, and I said earlier in
Speaker 2: the week that I didn't feel like Ben Brown deserves
Speaker 2: to get benched, and I still believe that, but I
Speaker 2: would also I also believe that throwing Cole Strange into
Speaker 2: an NFL game at center without any real experience playing
Speaker 2: but the position isn't very fair. Yeah, snapping line calls,
Speaker 2: like all the different things that go into being a center.
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily know if that's fair to Cole to
Speaker 2: then go ahead and throw him into an NFL regular
Speaker 2: season game, you know, coming off the bye week or whatever,
Speaker 2: without really ever playing the position in a game at
Speaker 2: any level college or the NFL. I talked to him
Speaker 2: about this a couple of weeks ago, and he said
Speaker 2: that the really the only center experience that he has,
Speaker 2: other than people telling him that he looks like a center,
Speaker 2: it was at a Senior Bowl. Yeah, in a practice,
Speaker 2: you know, practicing in the Senior Bowl down in Mobile,
Speaker 2: because the NFL teams wanted to see what he looked
Speaker 2: like playing center. If you gave him OTAs a training
Speaker 2: camp a preseason to ramp up to playing center, that's
Speaker 2: a different story than giving him three weeks of practice
Speaker 2: and then asking him to go play center in a
Speaker 2: regular season game.
Speaker 3: Okay, well, all right, so good explanation at any rate.
Speaker 3: I just you know, it seems to me that you know,
Speaker 3: you you want as much depth as you can get,
Speaker 3: but at the same time, at the expense of another
Speaker 3: position where they feel like they need the help. Okay,
Speaker 3: that's fine, But now the time is at three and
Speaker 3: ten officially eliminated from whatever. And even though realistically we
Speaker 3: know there wouldn't anything to be paying for anyway, but
Speaker 3: this is when the younger guy should be playing. This
Speaker 3: is when we should find out, Okay, who's worth keeping,
Speaker 3: who's worth reupping, if they're if they've got a deal up,
Speaker 3: who's worth you know, uh, you know, bringing back or
Speaker 3: you know, not trading, or maybe we have somebody with
Speaker 3: you know that's worth a couple of trade hits on
Speaker 3: down the line. I mean, this is when you have
Speaker 3: to do your real evaluation. In other words, twenty twenty
Speaker 3: five is beginning now. If it hadn't begun already, it
Speaker 3: is now during this bye week, twenty twenty five is
Speaker 3: already here. The process of identifying who and where it
Speaker 3: begins now, and then when you get into the off
Speaker 3: season obviously it'll continue and build up until you get
Speaker 3: to the point of drafting in April and you know,
Speaker 3: mini camps and camps and things like that next May
Speaker 3: and June. So with an eye toward the future like this,
Speaker 3: that's why I'm asking the question, give me one good thing,
Speaker 3: one bad thing, and one ugly thing that you know
Speaker 3: needs to You can have a bad thing and hope
Speaker 3: that it can change or feel like he can change
Speaker 3: with more work or more time, But an ugly thing
Speaker 3: is gonna mean no hope. Yeah, okay, born ugly. Sorry kid,
Speaker 3: you ain't gonna make it. You're gonna be an unugly adult.
Speaker 3: And you know, we got a pork chop for your neck,
Speaker 3: you know, so the dog will play with you. That's ugly. Okay,
Speaker 3: do you want me to give you mine?
Speaker 6: Now?
Speaker 3: Go all right?
Speaker 2: So I would say, you know, just to put them
Speaker 2: both together in the good category, so it's not all
Speaker 2: just Drake. Drake, Drake, right, Drake's obviously a good thing.
Speaker 2: Like we we can all see it. We can all
Speaker 2: see the talent with Drake. A lot of upside there
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 3: It's kind of low hanging fruit though, you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like Drake, right, now, to me, is already playing
Speaker 2: winning football at the quarterback position, and the stats bear
Speaker 2: that out. You know, he's a winning player right now
Speaker 2: for the Patriots on Sunday in this game against the Colts.
Speaker 2: He was a winning player started earlier in the year
Speaker 2: in that game. So he's on his way. You're right,
Speaker 2: it's not a complete finished product, but but he's well
Speaker 2: on his way sure to being a franchise quarterback in
Speaker 2: this league. I would also put him together with Christian Gonzales.
Speaker 2: I think the one thing that one beacon of hope
Speaker 2: that I have for this roster right now, no coaching excluded,
Speaker 2: just from the roster perspective, is that you have pillars
Speaker 2: on both side to the football to build around. You
Speaker 2: have Drake Mayet quarterback on the offense. You have Christian
Speaker 2: Gonzales at cornerback on the defense. So now everything else
Speaker 2: can kind of be built around the fact that you
Speaker 2: already have these two blue chip guys to be the
Speaker 2: guy on those sides of the football. So that's good.
Speaker 2: That's a step one For a lot of teams. You
Speaker 2: don't get to that step right. A lot of regimes
Speaker 2: never get there. So it's good that they hit on
Speaker 2: those in back to back first rounds that they have
Speaker 2: those two guys now. So with Gonzales, it's get another
Speaker 2: outside corner on the opposite side. To your point about
Speaker 2: the last four weeks, maybe that's Alex Austin. You know,
Speaker 2: maybe he plays really good football.
Speaker 3: We've seen, we've seen improvement in play without a doubt.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he played well down the stretch last year, played well.
Speaker 2: I thought on Sunday, Let's see if it happens for
Speaker 2: four straight weeks against good teams. You know, Buffalo Chargers
Speaker 2: Arizona is a fringe playoff team. So he's gonna have
Speaker 2: some tests. He's gonna have, he's gonna be tested. So
Speaker 2: let's see what it looks like for Alex Austin. Maybe
Speaker 2: that's him. You know, obviously you need pass rush, you
Speaker 2: know that. I'll get to that in the second. But
Speaker 2: the general point is is that you have some some pillars,
Speaker 2: some building blocks in those two guys that are at
Speaker 2: premium positions, that are young rookie contract players and guys
Speaker 2: that you just drafted in the first round the last
Speaker 2: two years. And that's the name of the game, like,
Speaker 2: that's the way out. The way out is to draft well.
Speaker 2: The way out is to draft well. And we can
Speaker 2: argue about the rounds two through seven last year, and
Speaker 2: I'm not arguing like it's not been good, so there's
Speaker 2: no argument there for me. But first round the last
Speaker 2: two years, they nailed both picks. They got great players
Speaker 2: with both picks.
Speaker 3: They just need they need depth. They just they just
Speaker 3: need depth with the within the draft because of all
Speaker 3: the multiple examples of coming up short where that's concerned.
Speaker 3: All Right, so we know what the good is. Did
Speaker 3: you identify bad?
Speaker 2: So I would say the bad thing to me to
Speaker 2: just to piggyback off that, you know, the draft outside
Speaker 2: of Drake May last year wasn't good enough.
Speaker 3: And I don't roster building.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I don't necessarily think that those guys you
Speaker 2: know you said ugly is like this has got to change, right,
Speaker 2: Like something major has got to change.
Speaker 3: That can improve over time.
Speaker 2: Ugly shot right, So I'm trying to, you know, on
Speaker 2: that side of the street. I I definitely feel like
Speaker 2: I'm willing to give Elliott wolf in this personnel department another.
Speaker 3: Draft interesting but.
Speaker 2: At least is short, right, like this is this is it?
Speaker 2: You got one more draft?
Speaker 3: Basic?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I will say that you know, as somebody
Speaker 2: that that studies the draft religiously and is big into
Speaker 2: the draft for a while. Now, what one of the
Speaker 2: hardest things to do in the draft is it's easy
Speaker 2: to draft first round picks, especially at the top of
Speaker 2: the first round. I'm not trying to give them zero
Speaker 2: credit for Drake okay, like some people are saying. But
Speaker 2: at the same time, you and I John could have
Speaker 2: picked Drake May And I think Elliot Wolf would admit that.
Speaker 2: You know, he's He's.
Speaker 3: Said to me, would Daniels That's just me.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he said to me in the past in the
Speaker 2: interview last year. I think at the combine was like,
Speaker 2: that's not what separates good talent evaluators. Is not the
Speaker 2: first round with good talent evaluators or days two and three?
Speaker 2: Can you find players on days two and three in
Speaker 2: the draft? Because everybody can find players in the first.
Speaker 3: Round, of course.
Speaker 2: So when I look at the draft last year, and
Speaker 2: then I would also say, when I look at the
Speaker 2: draft in twenty three, Kean White's a good player? Is
Speaker 2: he great? I don't know, good player though?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: NFL Playalid?
Speaker 3: Yeah, an NFL caliber player, You're right, but he hasn't
Speaker 3: quite turned out to be the world beater that we
Speaker 3: thought he would be.
Speaker 2: Not quite, but I would say that he is an
Speaker 2: NFL caliber starter. You know, he's a starting NFL player
Speaker 2: in this league. So I'll give you the first two
Speaker 2: rounds in twenty three, but everything else, you know, I
Speaker 2: guess you. You know, to Mario Douglas in the sixth
Speaker 2: round was a nice pick, okay, but you had a
Speaker 2: lot of other misses in there. You know, just looking
Speaker 2: at the fourth round a couple of years ago, you
Speaker 2: know they picked Chad Ryland is not even on the team, yep, right,
Speaker 2: Like I mean it just Jake Andrews has not played
Speaker 2: a real meaningful snap for this Patriots team, either been
Speaker 2: hurt or he's been down on the depth chart. He's
Speaker 2: a fourth round pick a couple of years ago in
Speaker 2: twenty three, jay Von Baker and Jalen Polk disaster, I'm sorry,
Speaker 2: just disaster rookie season like that, that's what it is.
Speaker 2: The two of those guys have twelve combined catches. I
Speaker 2: don't know what else to call it. Like it just
Speaker 2: it has not been good. So they have to find
Speaker 2: a way to improve the Days two and three drafting
Speaker 2: because they're gonna have another top five pick, top eight pick,
Speaker 2: whatever it's gonna end up being in the draft this year.
Speaker 2: And my expectation is that that will be a good
Speaker 2: football player. It's pretty hard to miss that high up
Speaker 2: in the draft, so I would expect that to be
Speaker 2: a pretty good player. But what do you do with
Speaker 2: the rest of your draft picks? Is how you get
Speaker 2: out of this? You know, I'll look at the Commanders
Speaker 2: quickly Brandon Coleman as their starting left tackle. He was
Speaker 2: drafted in the third round last year, rookie third rounder. Okay,
Speaker 2: Mike Sanstra, local kid went to Everett High, Michigan, another
Speaker 2: day two draft pick. Right, like, those are the guys
Speaker 2: that are contributing around Jayden Daniels right now in Washington.
Speaker 2: That's how you get out of this is by drafting well,
Speaker 2: so they got to figure that out right now. It's
Speaker 2: been bad. It hasn't been ugly yet, but it's been.
Speaker 3: Bad, all right, so bad. I think I would concur
Speaker 3: with a lot of what you had to say. But
Speaker 3: what about ugly? What needs changing yesterday?
Speaker 2: I would say to again make it both sides of
Speaker 2: the ball, to spread around the blame pie here a
Speaker 2: little bit trench play, trench play, and I feel like
Speaker 2: you're the same way as me.
Speaker 3: Well, yeah, the games are one in the one and
Speaker 3: lost on the line. On the lines.
Speaker 2: Just I know everybody wants to talk about the receivers. No,
Speaker 2: I know everybody wants to talk about the quarterbacks. Nope,
Speaker 2: football is won in the trenches. The Patriots right now, offensively,
Speaker 2: according to win rate ESPN Metric, they are thirty second
Speaker 2: in pass blocking and they are thirty first in run blocking,
Speaker 2: so they have statistically the worst offensive line in the NFL,
Speaker 2: and I think all of us can just see that
Speaker 2: by the eye test. Defensively, the Patriots are twenty seventh
Speaker 2: in pressure rate on defense. They don't get after the quarterback,
Speaker 2: especially when they only use a four men rush, where
Speaker 2: they're thirty first in the league in pressure rate when
Speaker 2: they only send four guys. So they just don't get
Speaker 2: pressure on the quarterback. And as we saw on Sunday,
Speaker 2: when they play a team that can run the ball
Speaker 2: and lean on you, they don't stop to run either.
Speaker 2: So as much as I love Drake and as much
Speaker 2: as I love Gonzo, if Gonzales has to cover for
Speaker 2: four seconds every single time, because nobody's getting to the quarterback.
Speaker 2: And if Drake May is running for his life all day.
Speaker 3: Long, he's gonna get hurt.
Speaker 2: So we don't have a football team. Yeah, so something
Speaker 2: absolutely needs to change on both sides of the football.
Speaker 2: In the trenches. They have to improve the roster in
Speaker 2: those areas first and foremost. Then you can get your
Speaker 2: fancy receiver. Then you can get your you know, your
Speaker 2: Teed McMillan, your Travis Hunter, your t Higgins. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying you can't do it all at once, but you
Speaker 2: have to put real resources into pass rush and into
Speaker 2: pass blocking.
Speaker 3: Okay, that's it. Well I'm gonna go. I'll give you
Speaker 3: my good, bad, and ugly and let's sort of compare
Speaker 3: and contrast here because I'm not gonna go for the
Speaker 3: low hanging fruit on Drake May because I think we
Speaker 3: all realize he is the future of this franchise. But
Speaker 3: in terms of you know, position and players that I
Speaker 3: think have done better maybe than expected, I got to
Speaker 3: go with the tight ends. I think both. First of all,
Speaker 3: Hunter Henry is tough. Yeah, well he did. He get
Speaker 3: his nogg and knots times a couple of times this
Speaker 3: past week. And then what I've seen of Washington Hooper,
Speaker 3: I like, I think I think he's really improved over
Speaker 3: the course of this season, So I would give that
Speaker 3: a definite uppick uptick. I think that'll make you know, Claire, uh,
Speaker 3: you know, Clasi Claire very happy that we were talking
Speaker 3: about tight ends today. But I think that's a good
Speaker 3: and I'd like to see that maintained, if not eventually improved.
Speaker 3: As far as bad is concerned, I can't disagree I
Speaker 3: with your choices over the the you know, the the
Speaker 3: personnel selections, and I think I'm gonna sort of mirror it,
Speaker 3: but I'm also gonna say I'm gonna move the trench
Speaker 3: play as you talked about the line of scrimmage is
Speaker 3: how I had termed it, line of scrimmage. On both
Speaker 3: sides of the ball, that's been bad. Yeah, I don't
Speaker 3: really think you can see a lot of good out
Speaker 3: of anything from you know, you've seen blips, and you've
Speaker 3: seen you know flips, and you've seen moments of brilliance,
Speaker 3: and you've seen moments of absolute utter ineptitude, you know,
Speaker 3: and moments of absolute you know, brain cramp when the
Speaker 3: offense gets a rare big play and it's called back
Speaker 3: because of holding number seventy one. We'll get them into business,
Speaker 3: you know, doing one of those things. Right. But so
Speaker 3: I gotta put the offensive line in defensive line, both
Speaker 3: in the bad as far as ugly. I to me,
Speaker 3: I'm not gonna call necessarily for anybody to be fired, yeah,
Speaker 3: because I don't think it's gonna happen this year. I
Speaker 3: think that, you know, there probably will be some kick
Speaker 3: of the tires. I think that there will be calls
Speaker 3: made around the league. You know, hey, would you or
Speaker 3: you know, could you consider or this or that? And
Speaker 3: you know, if some things come available, you know, after
Speaker 3: Black Monday comes in the NFL, you know, when all
Speaker 3: the coaches are gone, I'm sure we're gonna have seven, eight,
Speaker 3: maybe even nine head coaching jobs open in the NFL
Speaker 3: at some point before you know, the twenty twenty four
Speaker 3: season is completed, once we get to the playoff round, right,
Speaker 3: I just think something has to happen upstairs. And I
Speaker 3: don't think the coaching staff can come back as it
Speaker 3: is presently constituted. I don't think the scouting staff can
Speaker 3: come back as presently constituted. There needs to be a change. Now.
Speaker 3: I'm not calling for Elliott Wolf to be fired. I'm
Speaker 3: not even calling for DeMarcus Covening to be fired because again,
Speaker 3: as far as the coaches are concerned, look, I think
Speaker 3: they need to be given a couple of years to
Speaker 3: see if you know, where we stand and can they
Speaker 3: improve upon it. That goes for Gerard too, And I
Speaker 3: know that people here locally are going absolutely ape bleep
Speaker 3: over Gerard and how the Patriots should think about letting
Speaker 3: him go after a year. I disagree. I totally disagree.
Speaker 3: I think that's throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
Speaker 3: Now for whatever reason, you know, mister Craft ended up
Speaker 3: hiring him. Well, that's up to mister Craft and and
Speaker 3: and up to Jonathan and and up to Gerard and
Speaker 3: those that were involved there. The proof is going to
Speaker 3: come in the pudding by this time next year, okay.
Speaker 3: And if this team struggles with four or five six
Speaker 3: wins next year, uh, he's gone. He has to be
Speaker 3: gone because this is a business. And Gerard even understands
Speaker 3: that because he's been in the media and he understands
Speaker 3: that before you know, after he you know, left the team,
Speaker 3: then he got back into coaching, and so that's gonna
Speaker 3: take care of itself. But let's see now, if personnel
Speaker 3: can do their job, strike it rich three or four
Speaker 3: draft picks, do even better within free agency to fill
Speaker 3: these gaps and give this team a not only some
Speaker 3: bonafide go to talent all around the field, but also
Speaker 3: a little bit of depth. You gotta have a modicum
Speaker 3: of depth here to be able to survive seventeen weeks.
Speaker 3: You know, the Patriots had their bye week here in
Speaker 3: week fourteen. Yeah, Gemini, Christmas man, that's late. That's almost
Speaker 3: that's almost unfair. But I heard this week from some
Speaker 3: of the players, you know, when they practiced earlier this
Speaker 3: week Monday. I guess it was that it sort of said,
Speaker 3: you know, hey, all things being able, it's great to
Speaker 3: have the week off, but I almost wish we just
Speaker 3: went ahead and played through, which tells me they got
Speaker 3: a mentality of a it's onto the next. This one
Speaker 3: ain't working out, it's we're onto the next. And I'm
Speaker 3: kind of that way too, to be honest with you,
Speaker 3: I'm like, all right, look, that's why I mentioned off
Speaker 3: the top of the program today. Look twenty twenty five begins. Now,
Speaker 3: this is it bye week. You've got you know, you know,
Speaker 3: four weeks left in the regular season, you got to
Speaker 3: play Buffalo twice, which I also think is insane not
Speaker 3: to play Buffalo before you get to the end of
Speaker 3: the year and everything's already been decided. Now, maybe that's
Speaker 3: the fault of the you know, other teams in the
Speaker 3: AFC East more than it is the Buffalo Bills. I
Speaker 3: would tell you that I think the Patriots have a
Speaker 3: chance to win at least one of those games, because
Speaker 3: I don't think Buffalo is gonna play everybody at the
Speaker 3: end of the year. They've already clenched everything that they're
Speaker 3: gonna need to clinch. So it's quite possible the Patriots
Speaker 3: to be playing the Buffalo b team, you know, and
Speaker 3: they might actually get some kind of a you know,
Speaker 3: representative appearance, have not a win out of the deal.
Speaker 2: That would not be good for the draft pick.
Speaker 3: John, No, it would not be. But I'm just saying
Speaker 3: the guys that are on this team and in this
Speaker 3: organization now, they don't care about that they're fighting for
Speaker 3: the jobs that I just talked about because they know
Speaker 3: that Hey, okay, maybe I get a pass now, but
Speaker 3: I know that my performance is under the microp the microscope,
Speaker 3: all right, so I got to play. I need player,
Speaker 3: I need to kick somebody's ass. I need to do
Speaker 3: something in order to make an impression on people. And
Speaker 3: so is that looking at the overall good of the organization.
Speaker 3: Of course not. It's very much a me, me I
Speaker 3: I I think. And even though we know the old
Speaker 3: adage there's no I in team, I would tell you, well,
Speaker 3: there ain't no me or we either.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I would never advocate.
Speaker 3: Actually there is me. I wouldn't there is me in team? Right, yeah, yes,
Speaker 3: but not we.
Speaker 2: I would never advocate for tanking or.
Speaker 3: All right, all right, alright.
Speaker 2: I would never advocate for tanking on any level, especially
Speaker 2: the player level. I would never expect any of those
Speaker 2: guys to go out there and dog it and lose games.
Speaker 2: But uh, you know, I'm glad you brought up the
Speaker 2: coaching because I probably should have included that in the
Speaker 2: draft and in the personnel side of things, because it's
Speaker 2: kind of all one. Leadership is like sort of one
Speaker 2: thing to me with this team right now, And I
Speaker 2: do think you know, from a coaching perspective, obviously you
Speaker 2: hope that Girod takes the game management experiences that have
Speaker 2: k not gone his way this year and learns from
Speaker 2: them and makes it. You know, he's not an error repeater, sure,
Speaker 2: so that they get better at the end the halves,
Speaker 2: so that they get better at closing out games. And
Speaker 2: you mentioned earlier that you know, that's the league in
Speaker 2: terms of one score games and in close games and
Speaker 2: finishing these games. I saw a stat earlier this week
Speaker 2: that three hundred and seven of three hundred and eighty
Speaker 2: one games this year have been decided by one score,
Speaker 2: which is eighty percent of the games in the NFL.
Speaker 3: So you got to find a way to get over
Speaker 3: the hump. We can't even get this team can't get
Speaker 3: over the hump to be competitive because we know they're
Speaker 3: gonna come up short in the end. Right, you got
Speaker 3: to find a way to go beyond that and then
Speaker 3: a little bit more in order to win those close games.
Speaker 2: Right, So these close games, that's the league, like these
Speaker 2: coin flip games. As I like the column where there's
Speaker 2: one score games that get come down to the wire.
Speaker 2: The teams that win those games go to the playoffs,
Speaker 2: and the teams that don't there where the Patriots are
Speaker 2: right are pick in the top ten.
Speaker 3: And you know, Evan, it's been great that the Patriots
Speaker 3: actually been somewhat competitive all the one school games that
Speaker 3: they've actually been.
Speaker 2: Involved seven of them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so okay, but they didn't win any of those.
Speaker 2: Well they're they're two and five in those seven to
Speaker 2: one score games.
Speaker 3: Doesn't seem like they want any well, I mean.
Speaker 2: That's not winning very many.
Speaker 3: Like, I'm not to your point like that left that
Speaker 3: to the other side. You got a team that's in
Speaker 3: the hunt for a playoffs spot.
Speaker 2: Right, right, And so this this not that any I'm
Speaker 2: this might be a straw man, but like this notion
Speaker 2: that there's a lot of blowouts in the NFL, there
Speaker 2: really isn't. No, there really isn't. And uh And so
Speaker 2: what you get at, you know, all of this is
Speaker 2: that a lot of these coaching decisions that people like
Speaker 2: us in the media you go over with a fine
Speaker 2: two comb Monday morning quarterback every single week, all these
Speaker 2: coaching decisions when you were in a twenty five to
Speaker 2: twenty four game are ascerbated, like these are important decisions
Speaker 2: within the course of the game. And and trust me,
Speaker 2: no one, no one hates talking game management more than me.
Speaker 2: I hate it. I cannot stand sitting here talking about
Speaker 2: time out usage and end of half and how you
Speaker 2: manage the clock and what plays you called on a
Speaker 2: dry following when intercept, I hate it. I don't have
Speaker 2: any time for it. But that being said, when you
Speaker 2: get down to a game like you did against the Colts,
Speaker 2: that decided the game. Yeah, and that's on the coaching, right,
Speaker 2: you know, it's to coaching.
Speaker 3: Has to be. Yeah, it has to be. I mean,
Speaker 3: you're sure it's on the players for execution, but hey,
Speaker 3: the players are only doing what the coaches ask them
Speaker 3: to do.
Speaker 2: Right, I mean, you know, just to go back to
Speaker 2: the to the end of the game on Sunday, you
Speaker 2: get that interception from Christian Gonzales. They call two straight
Speaker 2: runs on the next follow the following drive. The first
Speaker 2: down run is not the biggest issue.
Speaker 3: How long was that thirty second?
Speaker 2: Yeah, the first the first down run is not the issue,
Speaker 2: though the second and long run is the issue. Now
Speaker 2: there's a chance, and I don't I'm not in his
Speaker 2: head said or in his head, But Jake Drake might
Speaker 2: have checked into the second run. But it was a
Speaker 2: check situation where they were canning.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 2: They had two plays called passing a run and based
Speaker 2: off the defense, he was supposed to decide if we
Speaker 2: were going to run it or pass it, right, And
Speaker 2: all I'm saying is is that in that moment, they
Speaker 2: might need to be a little bit more pedal to
Speaker 2: the medal next time. And that's what you hope that
Speaker 2: the Mayo. Yeah, but even if you're not, like if
Speaker 2: I have to imagine that, if like you know, Buffalo
Speaker 2: was in this similar situation, then in that spot to
Speaker 2: close out the game, they're putting the ball in Josh
Speaker 2: Allen's hands and they're expecting Josh Allen to go out
Speaker 2: there and win them a ball game. And especially when
Speaker 2: you look at the fact that really all you needed
Speaker 2: was like twenty yards to kick a field goal, you know,
Speaker 2: to put that game out of reach. So these are
Speaker 2: the things that you know, like I said earlier, you
Speaker 2: hope that Gerard Mayo downloads this information, is it, and
Speaker 2: then the next time that situation comes up, they handle
Speaker 2: the situation differently, right, And if they don't, if we
Speaker 2: aren't seeing that, then that's when you start to ask questions.
Speaker 3: Matt Saint Gene covers the Patriots, hosts the Pat's Nation
Speaker 3: Pod on COLNS Media, and also is a writer for
Speaker 3: Patriots pulpit, Pat's pulpit, if you will. He's at Matt
Speaker 3: sat dream on X. We asked him to join us
Speaker 3: in the program here today to kind of give us
Speaker 3: some of his perspective. Hey, Matt, how's it going, Bud?
Speaker 7: It's going very well. How are you guys doing good?
Speaker 3: Excellent? So I just I'm sure you've heard at least
Speaker 3: a little bit of the conversation here and just kind
Speaker 3: of curious overall, what's your take on where this team
Speaker 3: stands after thirteen weeks going into the bye week, and
Speaker 3: is this sort of the beginning of the end or
Speaker 3: the start of a new beginning? I guess might be
Speaker 3: the two comparisons here.
Speaker 7: Well, I agree with your assertion that this is kind
Speaker 7: of the start of twenty twenty five. Start now, I
Speaker 7: think that's going to start on the offensive line, where
Speaker 7: hopefully Cole Strange and Caden Wallace can get out there.
Speaker 8: And your last four.
Speaker 7: Games here, I think they're all going to be very tough.
Speaker 7: You've got a road game against the team that's trying
Speaker 7: to get into the playoffs in Arizona, two games against
Speaker 7: the Bills, who they're fighting for the number one seed
Speaker 7: right now. If they win out, Kansas City loses one
Speaker 7: game there posting playoffs in the AFC, So I don't
Speaker 7: think they're going to be resting anyone. I think they're
Speaker 7: going pedal to the medal. And you got a Charger
Speaker 7: scheme coming to Foxborough that has been tough and physical
Speaker 7: and very well coached all season long, that's won a
Speaker 7: lot of games. I think winning is going to be
Speaker 7: tough in the final four games. But you want to
Speaker 7: see some competition, and you want to see some guys
Speaker 7: start to take some acclaim to jobs for next year.
Speaker 3: Sure, of course. All right, So I'm I'm going to
Speaker 3: ask you the same question that Evan and I have
Speaker 3: been talking about here for a little bit, and give
Speaker 3: me a good, give me a bad, and give me
Speaker 3: an ugly for this team, at least at this stage
Speaker 3: of the game. Good something you want to keep around, obviously,
Speaker 3: Bad something that you still want to keep around even
Speaker 3: though it has been very disappointing. Ugly you need to ditch.
Speaker 7: I mean, I think very easily. The good on this
Speaker 7: team is Drake may I think he has been excellent
Speaker 7: in basically all the things you've asked him to do.
Speaker 7: From the standards of a rookie quarterback, very excited to
Speaker 7: see what he can be. I mean, like he's he
Speaker 7: seems like the real deal. I think maybe the bad
Speaker 7: I think in some ways had been you know, parts
Speaker 7: of the secondary and you know, I think the death
Speaker 7: options in the secondary. But from what we saw from
Speaker 7: Alex Austen this week, I felt a lot better. And
Speaker 7: I think Kyle Duggar is kind of a player in
Speaker 7: the spotlight. The guy who was supposed to be, you know,
Speaker 7: a captain, a foundational player for your defense, has not
Speaker 7: played his best football this year, and as you go
Speaker 7: forward into the future, he's somebody who you want to
Speaker 7: make sure he is playing his best football and can
Speaker 7: be utilized properly. And then the ugly has been a
Speaker 7: lot of the play in the trenches. But I'm going
Speaker 7: to go specifically defensive tackle. They've been pushed around too
Speaker 7: much there this year, and I think you look at
Speaker 7: this this draft with where they're going to be picking
Speaker 7: this year, and they might have a chance to really
Speaker 7: upgrade that defensive tackle spot going into next year.
Speaker 3: Well you thought on those particular choices that he made,
Speaker 3: I actually find the defensive line choice intriguing. I mean
Speaker 3: because two three, weeks ago and maybe even some still now.
Speaker 3: To me, the top eight has still got to be
Speaker 3: an offensive tackle for this team. But that doesn't mean
Speaker 3: you can't go out and find yourself a defensive tackle.
Speaker 3: And will free agency be the better route for either
Speaker 3: offense or defensive tackle or will it be through the draft?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the draft is stronger on defense in
Speaker 2: my opinion, just from you know, especially in the early
Speaker 2: part of the first round, from what I have seen
Speaker 2: so far in my study of the draft, I am
Speaker 2: coming around to addressing the defense in the draft. I
Speaker 2: would prefer to do it in free agency, just because
Speaker 2: I feel like there's more movement in the veteran market
Speaker 2: usually on defense. Like if you have a stud receiver,
Speaker 2: you're retaining him, you're trading him, You're not usually letting
Speaker 2: him get to free agency. You know, Calvin Ridley is
Speaker 2: the best receiver in free agency last year. You know,
Speaker 2: maybe you get lucky and like T Higgins is you know,
Speaker 2: the occasional guy that will slip through the cracks like that,
Speaker 2: But even he isn't a high end number one receiver
Speaker 2: in this league. So I look at defense and think
Speaker 2: that you probably are are more likely, you know, Matt
Speaker 2: mentioned a depth at corner, like, there are some corners
Speaker 2: in free agency this year, you know, ta various war
Speaker 2: DJ Reed, you know guys at Carlton Davis like guys
Speaker 2: that play a good football in this league at corner.
Speaker 2: So maybe you can go out and pay a corner.
Speaker 2: You know, Gonzo's on his rookie contract, he's here, he's
Speaker 2: locked in. Go give a corner some money, you know,
Speaker 2: to have a tandem there with those two, I think
Speaker 2: that's more possible. But if you look at the talent
Speaker 2: in the draft, it's hard to deny that the talent
Speaker 2: is probably more on the defensive side of the ball.
Speaker 3: Okay, let me pose something to both of you as
Speaker 3: well here, because it's a subject we've touched on, but
Speaker 3: we kind of dancing around it. And maybe it's because
Speaker 3: we're all stunned because of it. Jalen Polk's lack of
Speaker 3: production this year, I mean, I find shocking. I thought
Speaker 3: he would be potentially, you know, one of the finds
Speaker 3: of the draft this last year, but for some reason
Speaker 3: or another, he has not responded to anything. In fact,
Speaker 3: I saw today a couple of reports where he's one
Speaker 3: of the lowest rated receivers in the entire NFL in
Speaker 3: terms of, you know, number of touches, in terms of
Speaker 3: what he's done with those touches. I mean, he's just
Speaker 3: he's at the bottom of the heap. And I'm like,
Speaker 3: you know, I was hesitant because again he's a rookie,
Speaker 3: but I almost threw him in the ugly category, and like, okay, look,
Speaker 3: the Patriots have had a unfortunately and inglorious history over
Speaker 3: the last copy you know, decade or almost two now
Speaker 3: of finding real stinkers at wide receiver for lack of
Speaker 3: a better phrase, and it looked like they found another one.
Speaker 3: I'm not quite ready to go bust material yet. Talk
Speaker 3: me out of that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Matt, you can go first.
Speaker 3: Matt, what do you think about Jalen?
Speaker 7: I loved him coming out because he had great hands
Speaker 7: in college. And I think the thinking was, you know,
Speaker 7: he's not the most refined route runner, but his hands
Speaker 7: are good enough. You can put him on the field
Speaker 7: and if he isn't open, you could still throw him
Speaker 7: the ball because you think that he has a chance
Speaker 7: to make the catch anyway, we just haven't seen that materialize.
Speaker 7: You know, I think he's got a chance because receivers
Speaker 7: do take time to develop. It's a highly technical role,
Speaker 7: so you know, in an offseason you can make a jump.
Speaker 7: And if his hands issues this year have been just
Speaker 7: you know, adjusting to the NFL and kind of getting
Speaker 7: the yips, that can correct at any second. But you
Speaker 7: really can't go into next year expecting anything from him,
Speaker 7: just given the production he's been. I think one of
Speaker 7: the worst receivers in the NFL by your per route run.
Speaker 7: And you know, you hope that he can get better.
Speaker 7: He's not a bust yet, but you can't plan around
Speaker 7: that improvement happening.
Speaker 3: And if you can't plan on improvement happening, what's the
Speaker 3: point in you know, keeping them around.
Speaker 2: Yeah, well it was the second round pick, so I
Speaker 2: don't think they're going to give up on them, and
Speaker 2: I'm not advocating for them to do that quite yet.
Speaker 2: I always give guys a chance, you know, to pull
Speaker 2: out of it, and I think a lot of what's
Speaker 2: happened with him has to be noted is confidence related.
Speaker 2: You know, once you start to have struggles like that,
Speaker 2: it gets in your head, and I think he has
Speaker 2: struggled at times with that confidence out there. But with
Speaker 2: that being said, I wasn't the hugest fan of his
Speaker 2: in the draft, mainly just you know, a flavor thing
Speaker 2: with receivers. For me, yeah, you know, I'm a big
Speaker 2: separation guy at that position. I think that's the skill
Speaker 2: that translates best from college to the NFL as guys
Speaker 2: that can really separate at the top of the route
Speaker 2: or run by people, and when you have a guy
Speaker 2: that is predicated on when in traffic, winning contested catches.
Speaker 2: Those types of things are one very role specific, like
Speaker 2: you have to scheme those guys into your offense and
Speaker 2: find ways to put them in those positions. But I
Speaker 2: would also say too that the level of physicality from
Speaker 2: the college game to the pros is a big jump.
Speaker 2: And so when you're dealing with a guy that's going
Speaker 2: to be in crowds a lot and a guy that's
Speaker 2: going to have coverage on him a lot and has
Speaker 2: to box out or finish through contact or high point
Speaker 2: a ball or whatever the case may be. When you
Speaker 2: get that jump up in physicality, that skill doesn't always
Speaker 2: translate for every guy from college to the pros. So
Speaker 2: my concerns with Polk were speed, dynamic route running ability,
Speaker 2: separation ability, whatever you want to call it, and I
Speaker 2: was a little worried that he was going to have
Speaker 2: to be super reliant on the ability to finish through
Speaker 2: contact on contested targets, and that skill does not always translate.
Speaker 2: It does for some guys for a lot, and so
Speaker 2: that that would be my number one thing when you
Speaker 2: look at you know, what can the Patriots do to
Speaker 2: change the way they evaluate receivers moving forward? I think
Speaker 2: that's a major major thing. It's not drafting another Taekwon
Speaker 2: Thorton just because he's fast, right, It's not. I'm not
Speaker 2: saying just draft fast guys. That's not what it is.
Speaker 2: It's watching these guys on film and the guys that
Speaker 2: can get open at the top of the route and
Speaker 2: can create separation consistently. Those guys, more times than not,
Speaker 2: are the ones that translate to the league.
Speaker 3: I'm getting also some mixed signals as well on what
Speaker 3: maybe the biggest need for this team is right now,
Speaker 3: because I think we see some good in both sides
Speaker 3: of the ball, and I'm talking about on the ovisive
Speaker 3: line and in the defensive line. But even though I
Speaker 3: think we're all in agreement here, the trench area for
Speaker 3: this franchise has to change. That's that's a that's a
Speaker 3: part of the ugly that we're talking about here today,
Speaker 3: you know, with the subject matter. But what comes first
Speaker 3: tackle or defensive tackle? Nose card? I mean, what's more
Speaker 3: important guarding Drake, defending Drake, or you know, collapsing a
Speaker 3: pocket and stopping a run.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I definitely think, you know, pass rusher in general
Speaker 2: is what I would call it. Like I don't, I
Speaker 2: don't necessarily look at it as needing to be defensive tackle,
Speaker 2: because I do think you're gonna get bar More back
Speaker 2: at a fuller capacity next year, which should really help
Speaker 2: the interior you know, edge rusher, I think is a
Speaker 2: concern because everyone Jays is a really great run defender,
Speaker 2: but he's not a great pass rusher, so he's a
Speaker 2: situational player. Ideally, Keon White is not somebody that you
Speaker 2: know is a great stand up pass rusher, but he's
Speaker 2: a really good interior pass rusher. So he's kind of
Speaker 2: the one of these tweeters you know that has to
Speaker 2: play a role specific to the down and distance and
Speaker 2: things like that. So finding a guy on the edge,
Speaker 2: in my opinion, that can be a three down edge
Speaker 2: defender that all situation type of pass rusher which are
Speaker 2: hard to find. Like those guys are premium players. So
Speaker 2: we're talking about paying one in free agency at the
Speaker 2: top of the market or drafting one high in the draft.
Speaker 2: I understand that, but it's a really good edge class.
Speaker 2: It's probably the best edge out of all the positions.
Speaker 2: I would say edge is probably the best besides maybe
Speaker 2: running back. Running back is loaded. There's running backs all
Speaker 2: throughout this draft, but pass rushers, edge rushers really really good.
Speaker 2: I'll give you two names that I like. First round.
Speaker 2: You gotta watch abdul Cotter if you haven't already from
Speaker 2: Penn State. That guy is a problem. He's going to
Speaker 2: be a top ten pick. He's excellent. Had a huge
Speaker 2: game last week against Maryland, killed Ohio State, killed Minnesota.
Speaker 2: Who has a draft eligible guard or tackle? Excuse me,
Speaker 2: that's gonna go high. He's a very very unique talent.
Speaker 2: I really like Jack Sawyer too from Ohio State. He's
Speaker 2: a very good pass rusher. To one of these guys
Speaker 2: that we've heard for a couple of years now is
Speaker 2: going to be a very good NFL player, but he
Speaker 2: just hasn't been eligible yet. So I look at those
Speaker 2: two guys maybe a first round, second round for you
Speaker 2: as two guys that can play all three downs on
Speaker 2: the edge. That way there, you know, third down you
Speaker 2: have an Abdual Carter off the edge, you have Kean
Speaker 2: White and Christian Barmore up the middle, and now all
Speaker 2: of a sudden you've got a third down pass rush.
Speaker 2: You know, that's that's the hope, at least if you
Speaker 2: draft guys like that.
Speaker 3: Matt, what do you think offense or defense? Where would
Speaker 3: you lean in terms of most important as far as
Speaker 3: a need?
Speaker 8: Well, in some.
Speaker 7: Ways I kind of feel like that's not the right
Speaker 7: way to look at it. We have to look at
Speaker 7: it as what comes FIRSUS free agency. You have to
Speaker 7: see who the players are that are available. I think
Speaker 7: that's going to kind of dictate where you go from there.
Speaker 7: We talked about, you know, not always being able to
Speaker 7: find offensive lineman in free agency. That may not be
Speaker 7: the case this year. Cam Robinson, a left tackle who's
Speaker 7: been you know, but an average left tackle in the NFL,
Speaker 7: i'd say, might be available. You might get Ronnie Stanley
Speaker 7: available at left tackle. You might get Morgan Moses available
Speaker 7: at right tackle. You might get Tray Smith available who
Speaker 7: can play guard. I think the trend are one of
Speaker 7: your biggest areas of weakness, that something you might be
Speaker 7: able to address quickly in free agency. If you know
Speaker 7: these guys do hit the market, you have the money
Speaker 7: to do it. I do think that defense is in
Speaker 7: some ways the higher priority, though we've seen Drake May
Speaker 7: as a rookie with a poor supporting cast, already be
Speaker 7: pretty productive as a quarterback. I feel like, you know,
Speaker 7: if you can get that offensive line from thirty first
Speaker 7: or thirty second in the NFL, lots of twentieth there,
Speaker 7: Drake May can shine there. This defense clearly needs, you know,
Speaker 7: a lot of talent. I like the names that Evans
Speaker 7: threw out. I'm also going to throw two more out
Speaker 7: there for you in the draft. MIKEL Williams from Georgia.
Speaker 7: He is not polished as a pass rusher yet, but
Speaker 7: he's long, he's strong, quite defensive end. He can kick
Speaker 7: inside for you, really really talented players still figuring things out.
Speaker 7: And then Nick s Gorton, He's an edge from Texas
Speaker 7: A and m you played it Purdue to one of
Speaker 7: the youngest players in the draft. He's pretty mobile for
Speaker 7: a guy his size, and you know Abdel Carter. I like,
Speaker 7: I don't know if he's gonna fit what this front
Speaker 7: office is looking for, if they want someone with a
Speaker 7: little bit more size in that position to scort and
Speaker 7: maybe their kind of player.
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, Michael Williams a good shout. You know, he's
Speaker 2: probably the other top ten projected edge rusher in this class,
Speaker 2: or fringe top ten. If that, I would assume that
Speaker 2: Carter's pass rush ability is going to put him over
Speaker 2: the top in terms of being the top edge in
Speaker 2: this class. But Williams a really good player, and he's
Speaker 2: a little bit longer and like stouter on the edge too.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, this at least gives us a basis.
Speaker 3: I did say, Hey, this is the start of the
Speaker 3: new season, right, so we should at least begin to
Speaker 3: take an eye. We're going to go a.
Speaker 2: Little draft talk. If you have me on you know that.
Speaker 3: I always know that, and I know that I know
Speaker 3: we'll get that at you to catch twenty two stuff too.
Speaker 3: But I mean we're getting ready here. We're on the
Speaker 3: verge of you know, the college football Playoff, the first
Speaker 3: twelve team playoff we have have ever had in history,
Speaker 3: which I'm really looking forward to. I have to admit
Speaker 3: I'm a total old school about college football, and I
Speaker 3: love the bowl games and I love the bowl game system.
Speaker 3: I think there's something to the tradition that makes it special.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I'm actually kind of excited
Speaker 3: about combining that tradition of the bowl games with a
Speaker 3: little bit of March madness for football, you know, with
Speaker 3: the way that it's going, and I'm intrigued by it,
Speaker 3: and I think these are names that we should all
Speaker 3: be watching during the cfped where we see how these
Speaker 3: guys stand out against the big time competition.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I really like it for draft purposes. I'm
Speaker 2: not a big college football guy, like in terms of
Speaker 2: rooting interest, but in terms of yes, I know, I know.
Speaker 2: That's why I said it laughing because I knew the
Speaker 2: horns were coming. I knew that no horns down horns
Speaker 2: up here. Yeah, but I was. I like it a
Speaker 2: lot because it shows you what these players do in
Speaker 2: the brightest stages, you know, like the big lights are on.
Speaker 2: It's not everything, you know, it's not everything Like Michael
Speaker 2: Pennick's in the semi final last year has an unbelievable performance. Yeah,
Speaker 2: he did in the semi final, he was amazing and
Speaker 2: Jalen bulk Wot's too for that matter. That's what that's
Speaker 2: why I'm so disappointed he trashed my guys last year
Speaker 2: in the semi final. Yes, totally so both sides right,
Speaker 2: But with Penix, you know, does he does? Is penis
Speaker 2: a top ten pick without that semi final game? Probably not?
Speaker 3: Probably not?
Speaker 2: So like those are the big games that you watch now.
Speaker 2: You know, Abdul Carter at Penn State, he'll play in
Speaker 2: one of these games, might maybe multiple of these games.
Speaker 2: You know, they that's how you go and you look
Speaker 2: at these guys in those big stages.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Matt, thank.
Speaker 6: You for Yeah, go ahead, that's the games.
Speaker 7: Yeah, left tackle Josh Connery at UH at Oregon. He
Speaker 7: is someone that may slip into the first round.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you're left tacks Well, Kelvin Banks. I know he
Speaker 3: got banged up a little bit against A and M
Speaker 3: last week, but I mean he's certainly a name, uh
Speaker 3: that's worth watching. Uh. I know Cam Williams isn't we've
Speaker 3: talked about from LSU and he won't be in the playoffs.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, that's a guy I know
Speaker 3: that he actually declin playered physically for the draft this week. Yeah,
Speaker 3: so Williams is going to be a candidate for you know,
Speaker 3: one of the tackles lots as well. Kelvin Banks seems
Speaker 3: to have size, agility, He's got good footwork and good
Speaker 3: foot speed for a big guy. I still think he's
Speaker 3: a little unpolished, if that's if that's a phrase. And
Speaker 3: and of course he's uh, this is just his third
Speaker 3: year of college football and he's gonna come out maybe
Speaker 3: a year early. He's a guy that most definitely could
Speaker 3: benefit from a fourth year. But the problem is is that,
Speaker 3: you know, if he's ready, now, get him into a
Speaker 3: pro system and let him adapt to the pro system,
Speaker 3: which is the way most of the thinking goes with
Speaker 3: players who were any good, right, Yeah, you.
Speaker 2: Know Will Campbell, you know at LSU two in early
Speaker 2: declare and both both those guys.
Speaker 3: Will Campbell, That's who I meant. Why did I say
Speaker 3: cam Williams, I met Will Campbell? Yeah, I know, I
Speaker 3: just flip flopped the name, right, Yeah.
Speaker 2: So yeah, well Will Campbell, you know, is an early
Speaker 2: declared guy too. And they've they've had good luck, you know,
Speaker 2: with Gonzo and Drake May like both or early declared
Speaker 2: guys as well. So usually when you're you're that good,
Speaker 2: that talent comes out right away and you don't have
Speaker 2: to stay in college football for four or five years
Speaker 2: to show that you're that good. So Banks I like
Speaker 2: a little bit. You know, we're gonna talk about these
Speaker 2: guys a lot on Catch twenty two tomorrow. This is
Speaker 2: our first like draft preview show of the of the
Speaker 2: year is going to be tomorrow on the bye week.
Speaker 3: Wait, what weren't we just talking a couple of weeks
Speaker 3: ago about you know, no draft talk until the season's over,
Speaker 3: but the seasons.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so we're going to the bye week and I
Speaker 2: you know, since I'm not you know, thinking about another
Speaker 2: opponent on Sunday, I did some draft research this week,
Speaker 2: and you know, can't Banks? I? I like, I think
Speaker 2: that you can obviously see that he can move the
Speaker 2: line of scrimmage. A powerful kid, you know, big body, big,
Speaker 2: big play, strained type of guy. You can see that
Speaker 2: generate the movement in the in the in the run game,
Speaker 2: and uh footwork and stuff like that to angle blocks
Speaker 2: and get a you know, they'll write leverage and all
Speaker 2: that fancy you know, detailed stuff is all there for him.
Speaker 2: The one thing that I had a little bit of
Speaker 2: concern with on his tape was, you know, getting out
Speaker 2: to speed rushers and things like that. It's it's it's
Speaker 2: right on the line, right, some of those you talk
Speaker 2: about getting guys to ten yards, right, that's usually the landmark.
Speaker 2: Like he's usually like right at ten you know, when
Speaker 2: he's trying to deal with those speed guys coming off
Speaker 2: the edge. Campbell has a little bit of a different,
Speaker 2: you know, sort of weakness. But I think Campbell's outstanding.
Speaker 2: You know, his his body control a.
Speaker 3: Little bit more compact really, I mean he's not quite
Speaker 3: quite then. He has shorter arms.
Speaker 2: He's still six six, three thirty, so I wouldn't call
Speaker 2: him compact, but he's got shorter arms, which is you
Speaker 2: know what I was going to get to, which is
Speaker 2: sort of the concern with him. But in terms of
Speaker 2: movement skill, body control, balance, anchor, you know, power, just
Speaker 2: stout you're not going to go through him. That he's
Speaker 2: got it all. He's excellent. I think he's going to
Speaker 2: be a really good NFL offensive lineman, whether it's inside
Speaker 2: or outside. But you talk about the length issues, and
Speaker 2: that is a concern. You know, longer, longer armed pass
Speaker 2: rushers can get into his body, get into his chest
Speaker 2: plate and then push him, you know, and that that
Speaker 2: does not bode well for him playing outside at tackle
Speaker 2: in the NFL. But I do like your boy a
Speaker 2: little bit. They're at Texas, you know, I think that
Speaker 2: he's going to be a good player. Neither one of
Speaker 2: them is really Joelt like, They're not really in that category,
Speaker 2: but certainly they would have been in the mix with
Speaker 2: you know, Fashanu and Tulsa Fugawa and like that next
Speaker 2: wave of tackles last year after Joelt.
Speaker 3: All right, man, before I let you go, who do
Speaker 3: you like in the SEC title game this week?
Speaker 7: Oh boy, you know what, give me give me Texas.
Speaker 7: I'm not going to pitch against the host.
Speaker 3: Or host either. Right, you're a good man, hey man,
Speaker 3: Thank you for the time today. Body, appreciate you.
Speaker 2: Thanks for having me on that good chat.
Speaker 3: You got you got it. That's Matt Saint Jane, who
Speaker 3: covers the Patriots for CLNS Media, does one of their
Speaker 3: podcasts there on c ln S it's the Appatch Nation Pod,
Speaker 3: and also writes for Pats Pulpits.
Speaker 2: Two places that I used to work at as.
Speaker 3: Well, I was just gonna say, you know, Evan worked
Speaker 3: his way into this realm, and its right. And if
Speaker 3: the network come and take you away like they took
Speaker 3: Mike Reese away once upon a time, it to be
Speaker 3: a guy like Matt Saint Jean coming in here and
Speaker 3: sitting in where Evan is, you never know, You just
Speaker 3: never know. It seems to be a proving ground for
Speaker 3: guys coming in.
Speaker 2: Yes, as Fred like has to called clinics because you know,
Speaker 2: Selon s Is doesn't really roll off the tongue, which
Speaker 2: I tried to tell them multiple times, love you all,
Speaker 2: I mean it. I'm I'm just messing. But yes, look
Speaker 2: I Matt is a good example of it too. And
Speaker 2: my boy Taylor Kyle's another example. You know, a lot
Speaker 2: of the traditional people told me to like go to
Speaker 2: work from some small town paper covering high school football.
Speaker 2: And I'm not like looking down at the people that
Speaker 2: did it that way either, But I took you know,
Speaker 2: the the internet path, the blogger path, if you want
Speaker 2: to call it that, and we all got to the
Speaker 2: same destination.
Speaker 3: Can be done. It can be done. It just depends
Speaker 3: on your own perseverance and your own ability connect. Really,
Speaker 3: I teach this to my college kids all the time.
Speaker 3: You know, it's really about you know, not who you know,
Speaker 3: but who knows you. Yeah right, yeah, you know. I
Speaker 3: think that's a big thing. Like nowadays, you can be
Speaker 3: a brand, Like you can build yourself a brand even
Speaker 3: without the platform of patriots dot com or whatever. You know,
Speaker 3: I had it.
Speaker 2: I started on Twitter in two thousand, I don't know,
Speaker 2: eleven twelve something like that, and you know that's a platform.
Speaker 2: Like just just do the job, like just write podcast, tweet, like,
Speaker 2: do it all. And as you go, you know, people
Speaker 2: will start to recognize you and start to oh, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know that guy.
Speaker 3: That'll be consistent with whatever it is that you do.
Speaker 2: Right, yeah, yeah, I mean that was That's what it was.
Speaker 2: Taylor is another great example. He's doing a great job,
Speaker 2: and you know that's he did the same sort of
Speaker 2: thing that I did. Just you know, keep putting your
Speaker 2: head down and keep working at it. I think unfortunately nowadays,
Speaker 2: the old school journalism way of going to cover some
Speaker 2: small town high school paper thing like those jobs don't
Speaker 2: exist anymore, you know, so it's it's.
Speaker 3: You have to dig really to find him. To be
Speaker 3: honest with you, Yeah, you know. The story that I
Speaker 3: tell is a former student that I had when I
Speaker 3: was at Emerson a little over a decade ago and
Speaker 3: he was a year out of graduating. He called me
Speaker 3: up and he basically said, I'm having a hard time
Speaker 3: getting a job, you know. And he was an okay student, Yeah,
Speaker 3: you know, good looking kid. He wanted to be a
Speaker 3: sports anchor. You know, I wanted to be an ESPN
Speaker 3: guy that kind of stuff. And so, you know, we
Speaker 3: went out to lunch one day and he wanted to
Speaker 3: pick my brain. I said, well, what do you really
Speaker 3: enjoy doing? And he says, I enjoyed reporting. You know,
Speaker 3: I liked it on the desk, but I was reporting.
Speaker 3: I said, so basically, you're telling me you want to
Speaker 3: tell stories. Yeah, and he said, yeah, I want to
Speaker 3: tell stories. I said, I told him exactly. I said,
Speaker 3: go find a small place that will lull you tell stories.
Speaker 3: So he ended up finding a weekly newspaper which obviously
Speaker 3: has a website in central Pennsylvania in and around Harrisburg, Pennsylvania,
Speaker 3: and ended up starting a podcast and an online interview
Speaker 3: with the high school football coaches every week. Grew their readership,
Speaker 3: you know, over the course of six to eight months,
Speaker 3: ended up getting his first TV job from that job
Speaker 3: in the smallest market in America and Alpena, Michigan, which
Speaker 3: is the Upper Peninsula, right, that's where you know it's winter,
Speaker 3: you know, ten months out of the year basically. And
Speaker 3: then he took that and Alpina, Michigan, came back home
Speaker 3: to work as a freelancer for a station in Providence.
Speaker 3: Decided he didn't like the freelancer out because it didn't
Speaker 3: pay all the bills, so he took a full time
Speaker 3: job in Tulsa, Oklahoma, which, by the way, is a
Speaker 3: sneaky good sports market.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Tulsa's because they cover everything college as you would imagine
Speaker 3: between Goldman, Arkansas because it's right there in eastern Oklahoma.
Speaker 3: But they also cover a lot of pro sports in
Speaker 3: the area as well. And then he went from Tulsa
Speaker 3: to Dallas. Yeah, and he's now the weekend anchor at KATFW,
Speaker 3: the Fox Affilitate in Dallas. So he's gone from market
Speaker 3: two hundred and seventy five whatever el Pina, Michigan is
Speaker 3: to market five.
Speaker 2: That's incredible. Yeah, that's incredible.
Speaker 3: But he started because he found a small place to
Speaker 3: tell stories.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I said that that would be my one piece
Speaker 2: of advice to anybody that wanted to listen is just
Speaker 2: just start. Just just find a place to put your writing,
Speaker 2: to put your podcasts that you don't even need like
Speaker 2: a podcast host anymore. Like he just posted right post.
Speaker 3: Didn't put it up there and get you know, friends
Speaker 3: and family to jump in on it. And frankly, I
Speaker 3: know that a lot of people who listen here that
Speaker 3: do Patriots later podcasts because Marine and I have actually
Speaker 3: had some of them on Yeah, and we'll probably do
Speaker 3: that again in the off season. We'll do a couple
Speaker 3: of shows in our off season programming here, which we
Speaker 3: do monthly rather than weekly, but we invite some of
Speaker 3: the these podcasts hosts from Patriots podcasts that have caught
Speaker 3: our attention and that we know people will listen to
Speaker 3: to kind of come in here and we all exchange
Speaker 3: thoughts and ideas, because you know, covering a football team
Speaker 3: isn't just restricted to people like you and me and
Speaker 3: even the mainstream media. Everybody's got a thought, everybody's got
Speaker 3: an opinion. It's how you package that thought and how
Speaker 3: you package that opinion that will attract potential readers or
Speaker 3: listeners that really counts, and if you do it in
Speaker 3: an attractive, interesting way that people will go, ah, you
Speaker 3: know what, that's not bad. I'm going to listen to that,
Speaker 3: or I'm going to read that again. Now you're cooking.
Speaker 3: Now you're on the right track. It can be done.
Speaker 3: And that's why I like, you know, hearing from all
Speaker 3: kinds of people. You know, we ask people all the
Speaker 3: time to call this show, and we get our regulars
Speaker 3: to call in, which is fabulous. I'd like to hear
Speaker 3: more indifferent opinions, regardless of whether you agree or disagree,
Speaker 3: because it causes me and people like yourself, people like
Speaker 3: Fred and Paul anybody else that around here deuce. It
Speaker 3: causes us to stop and think and to see another
Speaker 3: side and another point of view. Sometimes we do get
Speaker 3: so close to the forest we can't see the trees
Speaker 3: all the time, and so it's always good to get
Speaker 3: a fresh perspective. And this is why I also like
Speaker 3: to do things like we've done today, which is asked
Speaker 3: people about you know, good, bad, and ugly, because it
Speaker 3: gives us perspective. Is where people are coming from. I'm
Speaker 3: not totally surprised for the answers thus far, and I'm
Speaker 3: hoping we get a chance to ask a few you
Speaker 3: know listeners about it as well today. But at the
Speaker 3: same time, perspective is really everything here because I think
Speaker 3: it helps us really attack what we need to attack
Speaker 3: in terms of figuring out what's right and what's wrong
Speaker 3: with the football team in the franchise.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, well said, thank you buddy anytime, appreciate time.
Speaker 3: Karen the only, the one and only Evan Lazar and
Speaker 3: he did say hi to Karen. We're gonna get right
Speaker 3: to her. Hey, this reminder, bud Light is easy to drink,
Speaker 3: easy to enjoy. Bud Light the official beer sponsor of
Speaker 3: the New England Patriots, and don't forget, Bridgestone is the
Speaker 3: official tire of the New England Patriots. I'm proud to
Speaker 3: partner with Sullivan Tire, New England's headquarters for quality Bridgestone tires.
Speaker 3: Visit Sullivantire dot com to find a location near you.
Speaker 3: Eight five five Pats five hundred. That's the TPX toll
Speaker 3: free hotline eight five five Pats five hundred. You can
Speaker 3: also find us, you know via email if you'd like
Speaker 3: to send a note, don't have time to pick up
Speaker 3: the phone and call podcasts plural podcasts at Patriots dot com,
Speaker 3: or you can hit me up on x at JR Broadcaster,
Speaker 3: because I usually have that up looking at everybody else's feed.
Speaker 3: But if you hit my feed as well, I'm happy
Speaker 3: to answer a question that way. All right, So what
Speaker 3: Evan just did as he said hello to our friend
Speaker 3: Karen Krigian, who has covered the Patriots as a columnist
Speaker 3: and as a writer to beat writer for a number
Speaker 3: of years, several decades. In fact, I don't want to
Speaker 3: date you, Karen, in terms of how old you are
Speaker 3: or anything else like that. That's not my point here.
Speaker 3: My point here is that you're an experienced journalist and
Speaker 3: she's a good friend of the show, and we appreciate
Speaker 3: her taking some time today. Karen Grigan joined us.
Speaker 9: Hi, Karen road John, how are you?
Speaker 3: Everything's good? Yeah, you know, as good as it can
Speaker 3: be for a three and ten football team.
Speaker 10: Right well, And for the record, I am old, but.
Speaker 3: That's okay, No, no, no, I.
Speaker 10: Think I equate that with Wyse.
Speaker 6: You know.
Speaker 3: Well, let's see, I've learned how to do that too,
Speaker 3: because I think I have you beat in that department.
Speaker 3: In fact, I'm pretty sure of it. And yeah, I
Speaker 3: try to think of wisdom. Yeah, I try to think
Speaker 3: of wisdom. You know. That's that's the that's the main
Speaker 3: thing I kind of, you know, rely upon. And so
Speaker 3: I want you to use a little of your wisdom
Speaker 3: in this regard because one of the questions that I'm
Speaker 3: asking today has to do with kind of taking a
Speaker 3: you know, that beginning look ahead with the bye week
Speaker 3: now being so late this year and only four weeks
Speaker 3: left of the regular season, to me, this really is
Speaker 3: this is the start of twenty twenty five for the Patriots,
Speaker 3: for this team, this franchise. And you know, Jerrod Mayo
Speaker 3: I think has even sort of, you know, alluded to
Speaker 3: that as well when you met with the media earlier today,
Speaker 3: earlier this week as well, and postgame anter the Colts
Speaker 3: game this past week. And I think we all know that,
Speaker 3: you know, because you're now mathematically eliminated, guys are gonna
Speaker 3: start playing for their next deals or guys are going
Speaker 3: to try to impress upon coaches or decision makers whoever
Speaker 3: may be in those spots with an eye toward next year.
Speaker 3: You know, you're gonna be kept around, We're gonna move
Speaker 3: you around, You're gonna make you expendable. You know, what's
Speaker 3: it gonna be. They've already done that with an offensive
Speaker 3: lineman and Michael Jordan, and who could be next? We
Speaker 3: also have the decision makers, you know, whether it's a
Speaker 3: coach or somebody in player personnel that could also be
Speaker 3: moving around, because we just don't know, and you shouldn't
Speaker 3: know rightfully, so you shouldn't have, you know, absolutes down
Speaker 3: when your team is three and ten. So I'm gonna
Speaker 3: ask you for something good about this team that you've
Speaker 3: seen this year. I'm gonna ask you for something bad
Speaker 3: that you've seen about this team this year. And I'm
Speaker 3: gonna ask you for something ugly, And by ugly that
Speaker 3: means it's just not fixable. You've got to change it.
Speaker 3: So you want to which one do you want to
Speaker 3: start with? You want to start with good?
Speaker 10: Sure, go, well, the good is obvious.
Speaker 3: Yes, well, we that we know. But I'm kind of
Speaker 3: curious to know whether or not you I'm kind of
Speaker 3: curious whether or not to know if you have something
Speaker 3: that might be hidden that you've seen, that you've noticed
Speaker 3: that you think is Hey, that's pretty good.
Speaker 10: From from Drake.
Speaker 2: Drake.
Speaker 10: The sure it's necessarily hidden, but a couple of things.
Speaker 10: I mean, I think we've seen growth over the course
Speaker 10: of his eight starts. I think we're seeing I want
Speaker 10: to say, advanced skills, but skills that you know, lead
Speaker 10: to him being a better, a really good quarterback. You know,
Speaker 10: his ability to throw and lead throw guys open. Not
Speaker 10: everyone can do that, but he can or throw it
Speaker 10: to a spot where only receivers can get it. I
Speaker 10: had a conversation with Austin Hooper recently about a ball
Speaker 10: that Drake threw to him, and he was just raving.
Speaker 10: I mean, it was like there were three defenders around
Speaker 10: and there was Austin and Drake, with Austin telling me
Speaker 10: the story. Although I did see it, he just marveled
Speaker 10: at how Drake put it in a spot where only
Speaker 10: he could get it. And you know, he's telling me
Speaker 10: he's played with a ton of quarterbacks, he's a veteran
Speaker 10: tight end, and he hasn't seen that ability a lot
Speaker 10: where the quarterback just instinctually puts it in a place
Speaker 10: in a crowd where his guy, only his guy, can
Speaker 10: get it. So you know, those things, those you know,
Speaker 10: they might not be obvious to the eye, but you know,
Speaker 10: subtle things like that. You know, I love, I wouldn't
Speaker 10: advocate quarterbacks throwing across the body, but boy does he
Speaker 10: do it really well.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I have to admit that that reminds
Speaker 3: me of you know, some real you know, gun slinger
Speaker 3: quarterbacks type of that I've seen, you know, in the past,
Speaker 3: who sling it that way, And yeah, that's you know,
Speaker 3: it's it's.
Speaker 11: I mean, we have mag Jones attempt that and it
Speaker 11: was gross, didn't go well, no, I mean didn't go well.
Speaker 10: But but he does it. It just amazes me how
Speaker 10: accurate he is doing it. And you know, I I think,
Speaker 10: you know, another thing, subtle thing, John instincts that he
Speaker 10: has instincts knowing when to run, when to roll out
Speaker 10: and throw.
Speaker 11: You know.
Speaker 10: Again, it might not seem like a big deal, but
Speaker 10: it is. This kid's twenty two years old, and he
Speaker 10: just seems to have a natural feel for the game.
Speaker 10: I think he's done a really good job seeing the defense,
Speaker 10: reading the defenses, not hesitating. Again, these are kind of
Speaker 10: these intangible qualities that might not be obvious off the screen,
Speaker 10: but they're obvious when you watch plays back, when you
Speaker 10: go over the tape. As all of us beat writers do,
Speaker 10: and you gain even more of an appreciation for how
Speaker 10: good he is.
Speaker 3: You know, I have to admit that his ability to
Speaker 3: sort of you know, as my coaches used to call it,
Speaker 3: you know, hey, rook, how come you can't just penny
Speaker 3: years back and let it go? You know? And because
Speaker 3: I was always too afraid of making a mistake, that's
Speaker 3: what kept me from being really good. I think that
Speaker 3: and talent, you know, usually has something to do with it.
Speaker 3: But he is willing to do that, and I like
Speaker 3: that attitude. So he's not afraid to make a mistake,
Speaker 3: and I'm actually impressed by that. I'm you know, okay,
Speaker 3: yeah I messed up here, but I know where I
Speaker 3: messed up. I'm going to try not to make that
Speaker 3: mistake again. And I think we've seen that sort of
Speaker 3: improvement from him this year, which is most encouraging, which
Speaker 3: is really why everybody should be, you know, happy with
Speaker 3: what they've seen this far. You can't be happy with
Speaker 3: the overall product, but man, get this guy some dudes
Speaker 3: to get the ball to and you might have something
Speaker 3: here in the next year or two.
Speaker 10: Oh well, that's the whole thing.
Speaker 11: John.
Speaker 10: It's almost like you want to fast forward the narrative,
Speaker 10: you know, and it's like god like, you can't wait
Speaker 10: to see him when he actually has a team around him,
Speaker 10: you know.
Speaker 11: Yeah, yeah, but again along the subtle lines, what he's
Speaker 11: able to do.
Speaker 10: With nobody around him.
Speaker 3: Yeah, honest to.
Speaker 10: Goodness, you know how he can.
Speaker 8: You know, I'm not.
Speaker 10: Gonna I'm not gonna put him into the same category
Speaker 10: as some of the earliite quarterback but make people around
Speaker 10: him better.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 10: I think he's made the offensive line uh not seen
Speaker 10: quite as god awful because of his ability to move.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 10: I think he's helped some receiverslong and his ability to
Speaker 10: you know, put the ball in good spots for them
Speaker 10: since they can't gain separation. His accuracy is help these
Speaker 10: guys who really don't create separation. The only issue here
Speaker 10: is he hasn't been able to produce wins.
Speaker 3: No, he does need some help where that's concerned. I
Speaker 3: do like his His is zeroing in on the Patriots
Speaker 3: tight ends in particular, which is one of those underlying
Speaker 3: good things that I thought of, because I think the
Speaker 3: performance by the tight ends, all things being equal, they've
Speaker 3: helped with blocking. They've got shown us that they have
Speaker 3: pretty good hands you know, Austin Hooper I think has
Speaker 3: been a fine so I give him credit where that's concerned.
Speaker 3: So I would kind of put that in the good
Speaker 3: category as well. What about bad? What about bad? And
Speaker 3: by bad, I mean, okay, right now, it's not good,
Speaker 3: but it's worth saving, it's worth keeping around, it's hopeful
Speaker 3: of improvement. What do you think, Well, I.
Speaker 10: Have to look to the defense, okay, and it's kind
Speaker 10: of all encompassing, with the exception of maybe Christian Gonzalez,
Speaker 10: who's another BLUs.
Speaker 6: God.
Speaker 10: The play of the defensive line has been startlingly poor,
Speaker 10: getting blown off the line of scrimmage, not being able
Speaker 10: to stop running games, not being able to stop quarterbacks
Speaker 10: you know, you know, the linebacker play, the confusion in
Speaker 10: the in the secondary and backfield, I mean, and opposing
Speaker 10: teams have picked up on the fact that you get
Speaker 10: down in the red zone, stick a play in there,
Speaker 10: no huddle, and the Patriots are lost trying to figure
Speaker 10: out who to cover, what to do. Motion is another
Speaker 10: killer has been another thing that they haven't been able
Speaker 10: to figure out or get again get their their ducks
Speaker 10: in a row. And I don't know if again they
Speaker 10: obviously they've lost some good players. John Bentley was kind
Speaker 10: of the quarterback back there. The linebacker Kyle Duger, I
Speaker 10: believe he has been playing on one leg with a bad ankle.
Speaker 10: They didn't have Jabrill Peppers until recently. They didn't have
Speaker 10: Christian Barmore until recently. But I think perhaps we were
Speaker 10: spoiled when coach Belichick was here of his ability to
Speaker 10: kind of hide his weak spots yep, or still be
Speaker 10: able to confuse quarterbacks. You know, we just haven't seen
Speaker 10: that type of mystique, that type of you know, doing
Speaker 10: things with the defense that confuses quarterbacks because the way
Speaker 10: it looks, the defense is the one that's confused, ye,
Speaker 10: not the offense.
Speaker 3: It does. So let me ask you then the tough
Speaker 3: question here, should there be Will there be changes in
Speaker 3: the coaching staff on that side of the foot?
Speaker 9: Well?
Speaker 10: I think I really think Girod has to sit back
Speaker 10: and take an honest look at the coaching staff on
Speaker 10: both sides of the ball. And you know, I don't
Speaker 10: know if that means firing people, but perhaps it means
Speaker 10: bringing in co coach type of people that can help
Speaker 10: straighten out and fix some of the difficulties. Of course,
Speaker 10: talent will help talent helps any coach, but it's just
Speaker 10: the problems we've been seeing John fundamental where to line up?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, yeah, I don't know how that happens.
Speaker 3: I just I mean it's inexplicable for this time of
Speaker 3: year for guys not to know how to line up
Speaker 3: in order to be legal, or guys to know that
Speaker 3: you can't jump the signal or you know it just
Speaker 3: I do. It's a head scratcher that I've never seen
Speaker 3: before in covering this team for nearly forty years as
Speaker 3: I have, I've never seen this of a team this
Speaker 3: late in the season. So it can't be anything but
Speaker 3: coaching or how they're being instructed how to do things.
Speaker 10: Right right, And again it's mystifying to me, you know,
Speaker 10: just again the dumb things that they do, and it just.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, and it just ruins everything, which leads me
Speaker 3: then into the real winner here, the ugly what needs
Speaker 3: to be changed, what has no hope of improvement, what
Speaker 3: should be thrown out, you know with you know Tomorrow's trash,
Speaker 3: that kind of thing.
Speaker 10: I mean, it goes right to the offensive line. Yeah,
Speaker 10: I mean they've ignored they've ignored left tackle, and it's
Speaker 10: stunning that they did so, bringing in having a rookie quarterback.
Speaker 10: And again I think Viderian Law has done as well
Speaker 10: as he humanly possibly can with his ability. But and
Speaker 10: but you know, whether they were or drafting tackles, they
Speaker 10: drafted people to play the right right tackle and expected
Speaker 10: them to move to the left.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 10: They signed in free agency a predominant right tackle, expecting
Speaker 10: him to play left. I mean, are you willing to
Speaker 10: take that kind of chance that whoever can make that
Speaker 10: change without really knowing? I mean that to me is
Speaker 10: that's ugly. That's an ugly assessment or an ugly way
Speaker 10: to go about your offensive line. It's just and it again,
Speaker 10: it's trumbling, it's you know where you know that doesn't
Speaker 10: seem to be high on the right, which is offensive
Speaker 10: line is the that's that's where the offensive that's where
Speaker 10: the offense stems from.
Speaker 3: Of course it is. And why wouldn't you want to
Speaker 3: protect your best asset? I just that one blows me away,
Speaker 3: and it just tells me. I mean, the only thing
Speaker 3: I'm left really together is that they tried to do
Speaker 3: it on the cheap and they failed.
Speaker 10: Well, well, if they continue to do it that way,
Speaker 10: shame on them.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, they can't afford to and they.
Speaker 10: And they deserve all the criticism that's coming their way.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Along the whole lines of ugly, the performance of
Speaker 3: rookie second round draft pick Jalen Polk has almost been inexplicable.
Speaker 3: He's not the same player that I saw, you know
Speaker 3: in the you know, national semifinals and finals last year.
Speaker 3: He not even closed. He was explosive, he had great hands,
Speaker 3: good speed, I mean, and we've seen nothing of that.
Speaker 3: And so I'm going to ask you a very simple question. Why.
Speaker 10: Yeah, well something Well, let's even go back to training camp. John,
Speaker 10: he looked like that player. Sure, at least he started out.
Speaker 10: You know, it looked like you know, watching him in
Speaker 10: training camp. But again you have to put training camp
Speaker 10: into context. These aren't padded. Practice is basically people running
Speaker 10: free and you know, with little you know defense, let's say,
Speaker 10: you know, with little opposition. But he again, he stood
Speaker 10: out in kind of the early going in training camp,
Speaker 10: and he seemed to have a chemistry with Drake May
Speaker 10: and that kind of has all disappeared in It's funny
Speaker 10: I talked to him yesterday, so I wrote something about
Speaker 10: him today. A series of drops, uh, bad penalties, lining
Speaker 10: up in the wrong place. I mean, it's like it's
Speaker 10: like when he gets on the field during games, he
Speaker 10: loses his mind, which is weird.
Speaker 3: So why are we going back to football? One oh one?
Speaker 3: That's what That's what I don't understand. What's causing him
Speaker 3: to do?
Speaker 10: You know, perhaps again perhaps uh you know you look
Speaker 10: at the coaching staff, the wide receivers coach or again
Speaker 10: something is missing, you know with Jalen Polk and to
Speaker 10: a degree to Von Baker because they put him out
Speaker 10: there and then they have to take him out because
Speaker 10: he's in the wrong place or he doesn't do the
Speaker 10: right thing. And it's like, is anyone teaching these guys?
Speaker 3: Well, if they're teaching them and they're failing, then they're
Speaker 3: not really holding them accountable, now, were they.
Speaker 10: Well that opens up a whole nother can of worms there,
Speaker 10: because when you I'll just go back to our friend
Speaker 10: Viderian Lowe, when you commit when you false start three
Speaker 10: times in the same game and don't get benched, and
Speaker 10: he didn't. But here's well, here's the other issue. Well,
Speaker 10: who the heck are they going to put in there?
Speaker 3: Well, that's the problem. You know, we've been talking about
Speaker 3: We talk about a little of that almost every week,
Speaker 3: and they're just not there's just not enough. That's the
Speaker 3: ultimate failure of this roster in the way it was constructed.
Speaker 10: The coach can't even bench players because there's such a
Speaker 10: huge drop off. And again, when you're talking about left
Speaker 10: tackle or even right tackle and you're in the in
Speaker 10: the franchise you're trying to protect, are you going to
Speaker 10: bench the guy to send a message and thanks getting
Speaker 10: the franchise hurt.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, you can't do that, can't.
Speaker 10: So again, So in some ways I think Gerrod Mao's
Speaker 10: hands have been tied by the roster that he's competing with.
Speaker 3: Yeah, somewhat. We'll find out if that changes soon enough. Hey,
Speaker 3: I appreciate you spending a little time with us, Karen.
Speaker 3: As always, it's it's good to talk to you. I
Speaker 3: hope you had a good Thanksgiving and good lord, Christmas
Speaker 3: is three weeks from today. I'm stunned by that.
Speaker 10: I know it to get As always, John, thanks for
Speaker 10: having me on.
Speaker 3: I enjoy our chat, so do I, And believe it
Speaker 3: or not, Karen, there's a lot of people who listen
Speaker 3: that also enjoy it. So I appreciate your making time
Speaker 3: for us.
Speaker 10: Thank you anytime. I have a great holiday. If I
Speaker 10: don't see you or talk to you before, then.
Speaker 3: Same to you. Hopefully we'll run into each other at
Speaker 3: the stadium here very very shortly, with a couple of
Speaker 3: games left to play. The One and only Karen Greggian
Speaker 3: from masslive dot com at Griggy and g U R
Speaker 3: E g I A n on X is where you
Speaker 3: can find her. Her stuff is always good. It's always
Speaker 3: spot on. The One thing that I've always loved about Karen.
Speaker 3: This isn't necessarily mutual admiration society here, but one thing
Speaker 3: I always love reading about Karen is that she reads
Speaker 3: and she writes about the stuff that I think about.
Speaker 3: She's spot on, and that comes from covering the team
Speaker 3: for thirty plus years as she has. And so that's
Speaker 3: where experience really pays off, because she knows what you expect.
Speaker 3: She knows what I expect. She knows what she expects,
Speaker 3: she knows how to go to it, and she's been
Speaker 3: around and the players know her. I mean, heck, she
Speaker 3: was one of TV twelve's favorites. You know. For those
Speaker 3: that don't know, you know, he would always you know,
Speaker 3: kind of like you know, in front of the White
Speaker 3: House press scops, I always call on you know one
Speaker 3: reporter first because you know him best, and think that's
Speaker 3: what Tom Brady did when he was here. He'd always
Speaker 3: call on Karen first anyway, because he respected and her
Speaker 3: ability to recognize, her ability to write, and her ability
Speaker 3: to be fair. That's what I like most about Karen.
Speaker 3: So you gotta make sure that she's a follow if
Speaker 3: you're if you're following along, and that's why we love
Speaker 3: having her on the show every now and then. Okay,
Speaker 3: so I got to hit the TPX hotline here pretty
Speaker 3: quickly because Patty and Aguam has been hanging on like
Speaker 3: for flipping ever. Patty, you're still there.
Speaker 8: I'm still here, John, hold on one, all right.
Speaker 3: No, it's good. Hey. I kept you on hole, so
Speaker 3: you can keep me on hold for a second or two. Anyway.
Speaker 3: It doesn't make for great radio, Patty, but it's all right.
Speaker 9: Hey. As I was listening to Peu earlier today, I
Speaker 9: guess I don't make for great radio for some callers,
Speaker 9: So that's all right. I don't mind. I don't mind
Speaker 9: being the bad guy.
Speaker 6: If I have to be.
Speaker 3: Well, but see, I like bad guys. I like foils.
Speaker 3: I like you know, people who come in to sort
Speaker 3: of stir the drink or shake the tree, or however
Speaker 3: you want to term it. Because you know, even if
Speaker 3: I don't even if I don't agree with it, I
Speaker 3: like to hear other opinions because it gets me to
Speaker 3: stop and think and consider the other side and hopefully
Speaker 3: making a better educated opinion in my own right. Does
Speaker 3: that make sense?
Speaker 9: Makes sense?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 9: He kind of serves it up to me, you know,
Speaker 9: because wait to you hear the three answers I have
Speaker 9: to the question today?
Speaker 3: All right, baby, go what's good?
Speaker 6: My good?
Speaker 9: Aside from the obvious Ndalas and May, I wanted to
Speaker 9: stand out and be a little different. So I'm taking
Speaker 9: Alex van Pelp because if you look at the difference
Speaker 9: between Drake May when he first got here, you know,
Speaker 9: in rookie camp and minie camp and training camp to
Speaker 9: where he is now. Yes, May had a lot to
Speaker 9: do with it, but I think as far as his
Speaker 9: development goes, you got to give your you got to
Speaker 9: take your hats off to Alex van Pelp for what
Speaker 9: he's done with the kid. And we're starting to finally
Speaker 9: see a little bit more creativity within the offense too.
Speaker 3: Well, you know that that's a fresh take. I'm going
Speaker 3: to give you credit for that one. And let's also
Speaker 3: go back to you know, even though didn't win the
Speaker 3: game this past weekend, it was their most balanced offensive
Speaker 3: effort of the year. They outgained the Colts. They had
Speaker 3: over four hundred yards at total offense.
Speaker 9: Yeah, I know, it's I mean, it's just last week
Speaker 9: was one of those games where I just when it happened, John,
Speaker 9: when the Colts scored, I'm like, they're going for two
Speaker 9: years and I'm watching the game with my friend next Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 9: I'm like, how how could you not go for it
Speaker 9: right here? When your playoff lives are on the line,
Speaker 9: you're playing a team with three wins at their house,
Speaker 9: you go for the win. But yeah, I mean they
Speaker 9: outgained them almost two to one, won the turnover battle,
Speaker 9: and still lost. And I was left there like, what
Speaker 9: the hell, man, oh boy, we got to do to
Speaker 9: pull out a win?
Speaker 3: You know? Yeah, yeah, I don't think this team is
Speaker 3: capable of that. That's the problem. It's just a prise.
Speaker 9: I think they're still very you know, for as much
Speaker 9: crap as the coordinators, the coaches, Elliott Wolf. Everyone takes
Speaker 9: this is I've said this on a previous call to John,
Speaker 9: this is a rookie year for everybody minus the Craft,
Speaker 9: you know, everyone else in a big position this year
Speaker 9: is it's the rookie year. So I wish people would
Speaker 9: be more patient and cut them some slack.
Speaker 3: All right, so you hit how about the bad?
Speaker 9: Yeah, my bad? And I'm only putting a one year
Speaker 9: label on this bad because if we're at the bye
Speaker 9: week next year, I might I might be saying this
Speaker 9: guy is ugly. I'm going to go jail and polk
Speaker 9: because I think there is something there. I think there's
Speaker 9: a reason why, you know, wide receiver coach. Notwithstanding, I
Speaker 9: think I think the organization likes them. I think eventually,
Speaker 9: like you know, I listened to Evan a lot. I
Speaker 9: listened to Alex a lot, listen to p I listened
Speaker 9: to Patriots Doc Amla.
Speaker 3: You know that.
Speaker 9: But when Mao made the comment about him kind of
Speaker 9: like being in his own head, I'm paraphrasing there. You know,
Speaker 9: Evan came on the air and said, you know, the
Speaker 9: one thing we were worried about with him getting open,
Speaker 9: he's doing He's just not catching the ball, and I
Speaker 9: mean I think it's I think it's sort of stacked
Speaker 9: against him over the last few weeks, and I think
Speaker 9: he just needs to settle it down. I'm hoping this
Speaker 9: by a week does does him some good. And I
Speaker 9: said it a few weeks ago to I don't care
Speaker 9: which one of these rookie wide receivers it is, Baker
Speaker 9: or Polk. I just want to see one of these
Speaker 9: guys be a player. Doesn't matter who, doesn't matter, how,
Speaker 9: it just doesn't matter. I want to see it happen.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I agree, so many needs to all right,
Speaker 3: ugly what what is? What is the proverbial lugly baby
Speaker 3: that needs to pork chopper hanging around its neck so
Speaker 3: the dog will play with it?
Speaker 6: All right?
Speaker 9: I went back and forth on this, and I know
Speaker 9: this is probably going to be very unpopular with some people.
Speaker 9: I was gonna throw out de Marcus Covington, but again,
Speaker 9: like he's in his first year, let's give the guy
Speaker 9: another year. As bad as the defense has been, I'm
Speaker 9: gonna go Kyle Dugger. And I think if you look
Speaker 9: at since you know, the last couple of years, the
Speaker 9: last two years, especially even with Bill Belichick as head coach.
Speaker 9: You know, I think he's he's pretty good playing at
Speaker 9: the line of scrimmage, but as far as like the second,
Speaker 9: you know, second and third levels coverage, covering tight ends,
Speaker 9: you know, covering the deep middle of the field, he's
Speaker 9: he hasn't been good and I don't think he's been
Speaker 9: He hasn't been worth the money that they gave him,
Speaker 9: and I think it's it might be time to move
Speaker 9: on from him. As much as I mean, I like
Speaker 9: the guy, I thought he was, you know, he was
Speaker 9: emerging a couple of years ago, but even before they
Speaker 9: paid him, like I just thought, like, well, he didn't
Speaker 9: he really didn't look that good last year, you know,
Speaker 9: he didn't look good. I thought down the end of
Speaker 9: the stretch at twenty twenty two as well. But many
Speaker 9: had that big pick in Arizona, the Pick six, or
Speaker 9: maybe it was Raiders game. I can't remember one.
Speaker 6: Of those games.
Speaker 9: But ever since then, he's he's fallen off, and I
Speaker 9: don't know, maybe another team can get something out of him,
Speaker 9: Maybe we can get something out of him as far
Speaker 9: as draft capital. And like I said, I like the guy.
Speaker 9: It's nothing personal, but I mean, we at this point,
Speaker 9: we got to kind of be what we can cut
Speaker 9: out for dead weight, you.
Speaker 3: Know, yeah, well that is going to come with a team.
Speaker 3: You know, it's going to be three and ten, or
Speaker 3: is three and ten and could be you know, three
Speaker 3: and fourteen. We don't know. I mean, we don't know
Speaker 3: what will happen over the last four weeks, but it's
Speaker 3: certainly not going to be I don't think it'll be
Speaker 3: better than what we saw last year. And like I
Speaker 3: said at the top of the show today, Patty, I'm like,
Speaker 3: I really thought this was a five or a six
Speaker 3: win team this year and maybe with a break or two,
Speaker 3: you know, they might be in playoff contention to about
Speaker 3: this time early to mid December before they ultimately succumbed,
Speaker 3: because I didn't think they'd have enough depth overall. Certainly
Speaker 3: they don't have the depth. The problem is they don't
Speaker 3: have the starters, So that's part of the issue overall.
Speaker 3: But we were wrong, and they just they don't have
Speaker 3: the depth that you know, they've got to create depth.
Speaker 3: They've got to bring in starters, they've got to bring
Speaker 3: in more NFL ready more NFL capable performers surrounding you know,
Speaker 3: hopefully the offensive anchor and the defensive anchor that they have,
Speaker 3: you know, and that's really where we stand. So to me,
Speaker 3: I'm kind of I tend to agree with you. I mean, look,
Speaker 3: DeMarcus Covington has had a rough ride over the last
Speaker 3: few weeks as the defensive coordinator because we've seen regression here,
Speaker 3: and I do think there's an issue here. But at
Speaker 3: the same time, because it's the first year for everybody
Speaker 3: in terms of the head coach, the OC, the DC,
Speaker 3: I'm certainly I'm kind of more in your camp, Patty.
Speaker 3: I really think that yeah, they probably should get another
Speaker 3: year to be entirely fair, but the one that the
Speaker 3: owner really has to go down upon and that we
Speaker 3: really need to come through otherwise he needs to, you know,
Speaker 3: rethink his employment status is Elliott Wolf. I mean, yeah,
Speaker 3: you got to bring in the personnel for these coaches
Speaker 3: to coach up. I just don't know that it's fair
Speaker 3: one hundred percent. And we know it's not a fair business. Okay,
Speaker 3: it's professional sports. It's not a fair business. It's not
Speaker 3: gonna be. It's a what have you done for me now? Business.
Speaker 3: It is all about you know, the Benjamins. It's about
Speaker 3: nothing else other than that you gotta make money. This
Speaker 3: is a professional business, but you got to give you know,
Speaker 3: it's kind of like Bill Parcells once said, right, if
Speaker 3: they're gonna want you to coach the players, they got
Speaker 3: to let you shop for some of the groceries. And
Speaker 3: I totally agree with that assessment. So when you bring
Speaker 3: in the groceries, don't go buy rotten eggs, don't don't
Speaker 3: don't buy it quickly. Yeah, don't buy stale bread. Don't
Speaker 3: do any of that stuff real quickly.
Speaker 9: Before I get off, you can get some other people on.
Speaker 9: I mean, he got the biggest chip, the artist piece
Speaker 9: to get. You know, we have the quarterback. Now it's
Speaker 9: up to him, you know what, Like I want to
Speaker 9: see them build up the defense. But while he is
Speaker 9: on his rookie contract, you have to do him justice. Sure,
Speaker 9: you start building the offense around here so we can compete,
Speaker 9: because it's not it's not your father's NFL. It's not
Speaker 9: my father's NFL. Games are one on offense more often
Speaker 9: than not nowadays. You got to build it up. That's
Speaker 9: all I got.
Speaker 6: Johnny.
Speaker 3: You're a good man, Patty, Thank you, buddy, Appreciate you all. Right,
Speaker 3: Before we get to mister Baxter here, Aldred. What's happening brother.
Speaker 6: Hey, mister legend, how you doing today?
Speaker 3: All good today? How about you?
Speaker 6: Uh, let's tired, but it's worth.
Speaker 3: Wait do we do? We have a tough hall, tough haul.
Speaker 6: Today, a long ones.
Speaker 3: Oh where were you coming from? Where are you headed?
Speaker 3: All right? Now?
Speaker 6: Coming from Columbia going back to Charlotte. Right now it's
Speaker 6: traffic time. And the other day we've got a little snow,
Speaker 6: the flurries.
Speaker 3: Oh you know how long a drive is that? How
Speaker 3: long are driving from from Columbia to Charlotte? How longer
Speaker 3: drive is that?
Speaker 6: A good day is an hour? Almost two hours? Okay,
Speaker 6: bad day two and a half three?
Speaker 3: Traffic on the traffic are we? Hey? When are we
Speaker 3: putting together Eldridge Rules of the road. We have to
Speaker 3: do that, you know, all right, that's that's for marine.
Speaker 3: That's for marine. That marine's got to get together on that.
Speaker 3: We want to put together Aldridge Rules of the Road
Speaker 3: and that way we you know, have some little reminders
Speaker 3: for people who are sitting in traffic listening to the
Speaker 3: pod or you know, whatever they're doing. Marine, We we
Speaker 3: definitely have to get to Eldridge Rules of the Road.
Speaker 3: At some point, right, like you don't have enough to do.
Speaker 3: I understand that, but I'm just saying it's on my list.
Speaker 3: I will get to you, Eldred. See it's gonna happen.
Speaker 3: It's gonna happen, all right, So Eldred, give me good,
Speaker 3: bad and ugly about this team because I know you've
Speaker 3: got some definitive choices here.
Speaker 6: Yeah. Good, I'm I'm going with everybody else. Drake may
Speaker 6: you know, he's do a little bit better. It's getting
Speaker 6: better what I thought he would do. Ye I had him,
Speaker 6: I didn't. I wouldn't want to drive him, but I
Speaker 6: got to give it. Give Hi his problems.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you told me you're gonna go buy his jersey.
Speaker 3: You bought his jersey, right.
Speaker 6: I already got it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you showed. Remember you sent me a picture? Yeah,
Speaker 3: you sent me a picture?
Speaker 6: Did you show?
Speaker 3: Did ye? Okay?
Speaker 6: Man of my word?
Speaker 2: You know?
Speaker 6: Yes? Sir?
Speaker 3: All right? Bad? What's bad?
Speaker 6: What's bad? Well, it's it's you go a lot of
Speaker 6: ways with that. I want to go the line and
Speaker 6: I want to go defense. That's time. I'm gonna go
Speaker 6: with both. What's ugly, it's the talent level on that
Speaker 6: team with Ian Wolf. That's what's damn right ugly.
Speaker 3: You would have said, you would have said that for
Speaker 3: GM Bill Belichick too though, right.
Speaker 6: I think they're the same people, you know.
Speaker 3: It wasn't the version of yeah, he'll probably take that
Speaker 3: as a contown. Right.
Speaker 6: He shouldn't the way where he drafts. He shouldn't. That's
Speaker 6: why I feel ain't got a job. You ain't got no,
Speaker 6: you ain't got no, you ain't got no groceries in
Speaker 6: in uh in the cabinets, you know. And then uh,
Speaker 6: I'm like everybody else. You gonna have all this cap space,
Speaker 6: you have cap money, you know, cap money you have,
Speaker 6: you have this top of the draft whatever. He won't
Speaker 6: get it right. I don't think he. I think he.
Speaker 6: I think he drafts like Bill, or he learned from Bill,
Speaker 6: and I think he drafts the same way, you know,
Speaker 6: because you got the same guys and coaching wise, you know,
Speaker 6: ugly on defense office I thought was ugly at first,
Speaker 6: but it's getting better, you know. And then I'm like
Speaker 6: Marcus Covenant, I can't understand you, even in high school
Speaker 6: when I was coaching in high school. If a guy
Speaker 6: go in most motion, if you go a man and
Speaker 6: you want to double him the far stats on the
Speaker 6: other side, double the guy that goes with him. That's
Speaker 6: that's elementary. That's elementary. The other the other states to
Speaker 6: cover up the deep end. That's elementary. It's a side,
Speaker 6: you know. And then if you're dropping, you just drop
Speaker 6: back in the zone or whatever. But you just don't
Speaker 6: have nobody confused or whatever. But they pro they get paid,
Speaker 6: so they should. They should know that rule too, because
Speaker 6: they had to start from high school to leave him
Speaker 6: and to learn the same thing. I just can. It's
Speaker 6: just a talent level. And another thing I'm mad about is, Okay,
Speaker 6: you got some guys on the scout team. I hear
Speaker 6: some people right about him or whatever, you know, and like,
Speaker 6: you got a six y three wide receiver right there already.
Speaker 6: You know you got speed. He might be whatever, but
Speaker 6: right now you three and ten. Why not try everybody?
Speaker 6: You got some some some corners with some speed and
Speaker 6: some size. Why not try to see what you got
Speaker 6: instead of just looking at practice squad and said, well,
Speaker 6: they just run the scout team and that's that, you know.
Speaker 6: Why not give them a shot somewhere else because you're
Speaker 6: hurting the secondary. Who knows you might have a second
Speaker 6: guy right there might have a receiver right there, Jalen Polk.
Speaker 6: I gave it from from Jump Street because I said,
Speaker 6: I want a d Mitchell, I.
Speaker 3: Know, although although I mean, I don't think ad Mitchell
Speaker 3: had the best game of this last week either for
Speaker 3: the Colts.
Speaker 6: Right, No, he hasn't little little what you call. Matter
Speaker 6: of fact, my brother in law he's a Colt saying
Speaker 6: he told me that, Hey, I tell you what if
Speaker 6: I was them, I trade you a d Mitchell for
Speaker 6: Robinson to guard. I said, no, I ain't giving you
Speaker 6: the guard I give you. I'll give you somebody else
Speaker 6: for him. I won't give you the guard Lennon Robinson.
Speaker 3: Rob Yeah, that's one of the reasons.
Speaker 6: Pretty good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's one of the reasons why they want to
Speaker 3: play him, because they want to see more of him.
Speaker 3: They want him to get on the job training, kind
Speaker 3: of like what they did with with Drake earlier this
Speaker 3: year when they decided to move him into the lineup.
Speaker 3: It's on the job training, and there's no better way
Speaker 3: to learn than on the job.
Speaker 6: Yep. And what else is ugly you only got only
Speaker 6: hit on one draft pick, which I know that's the
Speaker 6: major one, but that ain't the only one. At least
Speaker 6: you got leash hit three out of how many people
Speaker 6: getting eleven? Least hit three. You ain't hit but one.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, you gotta you gotta, you gotta
Speaker 3: have a three hundred batting average minimum, right minimum? Minimum?
Speaker 6: Yeah, minimum, you know. And right now he got zero
Speaker 6: with me. He got zero from another year, and he
Speaker 6: got zero for this year, you know. And then uh defense,
Speaker 6: like you said, you got some free age of corners.
Speaker 6: You know, that can help help out a gun zone
Speaker 6: on that side over there. But it's a linebacker crew
Speaker 6: and the front line, you decent line differ. I'm like,
Speaker 6: kind of trade. I'll pay somebody for that back to
Speaker 6: do that and then keep trying to draft whatever. But
Speaker 6: like I said, the other thing is the GM and
Speaker 6: the talent level. And you saw this when Bill was
Speaker 6: there and you got your chances to do something different,
Speaker 6: you did the same thing your predecessor did.
Speaker 3: Correct.
Speaker 6: I think that's dumb.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I listen. It's hard to argue that. It's hard
Speaker 3: to argue that you're willing to get them another shot
Speaker 3: next year. You're willing to give the coaching staff another shot.
Speaker 6: I get a coaching Shaft coaching staff another shot. But
Speaker 6: like I told you a while ago, mister Kraft, let
Speaker 6: me draft for you one year. I guarantee you let
Speaker 6: me draft rest of the time. You ain't gotta pay me.
Speaker 3: Well, we're gonna, we're gonna go to GM. We're gonna
Speaker 3: we're gonna give you a chance to make that draft Eldred.
Speaker 3: All right, you're gonna we're gonna work on that for
Speaker 3: April and May next year, and we're gonna let you, uh,
Speaker 3: you know conduct you know, Eldridge draft, and we're gonna
Speaker 3: see how it compares to what the Patriots do and
Speaker 3: go from that point. All right, So start boning up
Speaker 3: on these guys. I want you to find me some
Speaker 3: you know, third, fourth and fifth round gems, right, guys,
Speaker 3: guys that are lumps of klo, Guys that are lumps
Speaker 3: of coal right now that you can mold into diamonds.
Speaker 6: All right, don't do that, okay, But I like you.
Speaker 6: I like moving at the top of the draft to
Speaker 6: get some of those guys they're around those special team guys. Yeah, totally, yes, yes,
Speaker 6: But okay, you have a good one, mister Landa.
Speaker 3: I was good talking to always good to talk to you, Eldred,
Speaker 3: Love you all right, Eldred once again from North Carolina,
Speaker 3: just fresh off the road. And now it's what week
Speaker 3: fourteen in the NFL.
Speaker 6: It's a real woman could stop you from drinking, a
Speaker 6: real big woman.
Speaker 5: It's time to go around the NFL with football guru
Speaker 5: Russell Baxter.
Speaker 3: Now on.
Speaker 11: The name is Flounder.
Speaker 3: On Patriots playbook hung And this reminder, Massachusetts is made
Speaker 3: for everyone. For the leaf peepers, corn maze strollers, for
Speaker 3: gando lovers, pumpkin pickers, and anyone else you could think of.
Speaker 3: Come to where there's something for everyone this fall and winter,
Speaker 3: Massa Choosets, where everything is made possible. Plan your trip
Speaker 3: at visit MA dot com. Good afternoon, mister Baxter. How
Speaker 3: are you sir?
Speaker 8: Hello there, sir. Are you recovered from Thanksgiving?
Speaker 3: Or yeah, yeah, listen. I don't have any complaints. I mean,
Speaker 3: I had it good last week. I was in eighty
Speaker 3: degrees in sunshine every day, just you knowall wasn't so great.
Speaker 3: But at the same time, I had no problems with
Speaker 3: my office every day, so that part was really good.
Speaker 3: That part was really good, and of course the day
Speaker 3: itself was nice to be with friends and family, and
Speaker 3: that part worked out, and I hope that you had
Speaker 3: a similar day yourself.
Speaker 8: Very much. My standard line for twenty three years if
Speaker 8: you had the turkey and me bet the over and
Speaker 8: you won. No, it was relaxing.
Speaker 6: We saw.
Speaker 8: Some entertaining football for the most part.
Speaker 3: We did, didn't we.
Speaker 8: You know, I think the Lions, I think we're headed
Speaker 8: for dinner. And then realized that the Bears weren't finished yet.
Speaker 8: Although the Bears found a way to finish themselves.
Speaker 3: They did, they did.
Speaker 8: Now they have an interim head coach. Hey, the Cowboys
Speaker 8: Giants game was competitive. The disappointment was was the Thursday
Speaker 8: night game of Green Bay in Miami. Miami just they
Speaker 8: were kind of a no show. I mean, and I
Speaker 8: know a lot gets made about the weather and different
Speaker 8: things like that and so on, but you know, they
Speaker 8: they for a team that had won three games in
Speaker 8: a row, they were very very flat, especially with what
Speaker 8: they have on the line, you know, with the AFC
Speaker 8: playoff picture and so on. So but you know, I
Speaker 8: know the Bills were happy because then they beat San
Speaker 8: Francisco and they won the East fifth year in a row.
Speaker 8: So that's a you know, you know, you're having a
Speaker 8: good year in Buffalo when you know you have won
Speaker 8: ten games and the rest of your division is one eleven.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no fooling right. I got a couple of specific
Speaker 3: things I wanted to ask you today. First one starts
Speaker 3: with the Lions, as you mentioned them. Of course winning
Speaker 3: you know, on Thanksgiving Day, because they're usually tough on
Speaker 3: that day. But now they're going to turn around and
Speaker 3: they got the early game this week and playing Thursday
Speaker 3: against the Packers. Are the Lions the best team in
Speaker 3: Pro football? If they are, why and if they are not,
Speaker 3: why not?
Speaker 8: Well, I'm ten in a row. They have the highest
Speaker 8: scoring they're the highest scoring team in the league. John,
Speaker 8: But they've also given up the second fewest points in
Speaker 8: the league, which is that's I wouldn't say that's common, okay.
Speaker 8: I mean we see a lot of high scoring teams
Speaker 8: definitely give up their share of points, but only the
Speaker 8: Chargers are given up more points per game than the Lions.
Speaker 8: I think the Lions defense got a little banged up
Speaker 8: the other day, and I think that was part of
Speaker 8: the reason the Bears were able to they got This
Speaker 8: is not an overpowering defense, but I'd give them credit
Speaker 8: losing Aiden Hutchinson, you know, in the middle of the season,
Speaker 8: and they've still found ways to be just more solid.
Speaker 8: Aaron Glenn deserves a lot of credit. But this is
Speaker 8: a team that runs the ball, stops the run, they
Speaker 8: have a court, I mean. And the thing you have
Speaker 8: to think about, John, is the resiliency that you know
Speaker 8: that Sunday night game at Houston when Jared Goff threw
Speaker 8: the ball to everybody but you and me, and they
Speaker 8: still came back and won that game on the road.
Speaker 8: So this is a team that's like supreme. Think about this, okay,
Speaker 8: And I'm just going to go back to last season.
Speaker 8: In the regular season, Okay, the Detroit Lions are twenty
Speaker 8: three and six in their last twenty nine games.
Speaker 3: That's amazing.
Speaker 8: I mean, yeah, if you've include the playoffs, they're actually
Speaker 8: twenty five and seven.
Speaker 3: Yep.
Speaker 6: Okay.
Speaker 8: Now, for those of us who've been who watched the Lions,
Speaker 8: obviously you have a team that hasn't won a championship
Speaker 8: since nineteen fifty seven, the only team in the NFC
Speaker 8: has never been to the Super Bowl. These are pretty
Speaker 8: remarkable numbers. And listen, they had some good teams in
Speaker 8: the nineties when they got to the NFC title game
Speaker 8: in ninety one, that was kind of Barry Sanders. It
Speaker 8: was actually if you remember that year, that was Wayne
Speaker 8: and a very emotional moment at the sober Dome with
Speaker 8: Mike Gutley yep, as you remember, and a lot of
Speaker 8: people talked about that and so on. And you know,
Speaker 8: I had some teams in the mid nineties with Scott
Speaker 8: Visualist the quarterback, exciting teams, but never what we're seeing
Speaker 8: now this dominance at times and again as we are
Speaker 8: finding out and this is not a shock. You know,
Speaker 8: while teams and I've went right off the top of
Speaker 8: my head, I want to say, there's been fourteen rematches
Speaker 8: so far this year. As far as teams playing each
Speaker 8: other in the Vision, I think, sweet, it's sweets ten
Speaker 8: to four.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 8: Okay, kidding, but that's not a shock. Usually happened. But
Speaker 8: that doesn't mean that these games aren't close. And we
Speaker 8: have seen this all year with these divisional games that
Speaker 8: are nail bikers. Okay, even think about Pittsburgh and Cincinnati. Okay,
Speaker 8: Pittsburgh scored their most points of the season and gave
Speaker 8: up their most points in the season and still managed
Speaker 8: to win the game, but it's a six point game.
Speaker 8: Jacksonville has been dreadful this year and they've taken the
Speaker 8: Texans to the wire twice. Jackson the Texans swept Colts
Speaker 8: this year. The Colts took them to the wire twice.
Speaker 8: About the Dallas Giants games were closed, so we haven't
Speaker 8: necessarily seen, you know, but what about Baltimore and Cincinnati?
Speaker 8: A forty one thirty eight and what a thirty five
Speaker 8: thirty four?
Speaker 3: I thought it was pretty entertaining.
Speaker 8: Well yeah, yeah, exactly, so you're seeing click again, Baltimore swept,
Speaker 8: Dallas swept, but Houston swept twice and so on. But
Speaker 8: it doesn't mean that these games aren't competitive. And here's
Speaker 8: a funny thing. I just thought about Houston with their
Speaker 8: two suites, and a couple of weeks ago they got
Speaker 8: beat at home by the Titans, who won three games.
Speaker 8: So the difference between games during the regular season between
Speaker 8: teams that don't play each other on a regular basis
Speaker 8: per se and these divisional matchups, I mean, it's very, very,
Speaker 8: very evident, which is why it's so smart that the
Speaker 8: final week of the season features sixteen games, and all
Speaker 8: sixteen or within the division.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Interesting. The other couple of games I don't wanted
Speaker 3: to kind of glance at I have to do with,
Speaker 3: you know, contenders certainly to whatever supremacy you know, the
Speaker 3: Lions end up with. And you and I have talked
Speaker 3: about this before, but I mean I kind of tend
Speaker 3: to want to root for the teams that haven't had
Speaker 3: that opportunity to get to that big game or win
Speaker 3: the big game, and along those lines, while I'm going
Speaker 3: to kind of pull if I'm going to be a
Speaker 3: fan from it, and I'm going to kind of pull
Speaker 3: for what the Lions are doing. In the AFC, well,
Speaker 3: you've got potential for history again with the Kansas City Chiefs,
Speaker 3: and you've got the potential for history with the Buffalo Bills,
Speaker 3: maybe getting back to the ball and maybe actually winning
Speaker 3: one for the first time in five attempts. They appear
Speaker 3: to me to be the cream of the crop and
Speaker 3: the AFC, with all due respect to the Steelers and
Speaker 3: maybe another, but the Bills will go on the road
Speaker 3: to the Rams this week, and the Chiefs are at
Speaker 3: home against the Chargers what may be the sneaky best
Speaker 3: game of the entire weekend on Sunday night.
Speaker 8: Well, I mean, listen even though they survived a wild
Speaker 8: Sunday night game against the Bengals. As I was pointing out,
Speaker 8: food for Thought will be out tomorrow. Think about we're
Speaker 8: twelve games into the season for just about every team,
Speaker 8: six six teams that have played thirteen, the Chargers still
Speaker 8: haven't given up two hundred points.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 8: They're the only team in the league that can claim
Speaker 8: that pretty good d okay, And that's a big turnaround
Speaker 8: for that team, you know. And I didn't go back
Speaker 8: to the AFL, but I was looking today and I
Speaker 8: noted that since the merger nineteen seventy, the Chargers have
Speaker 8: never led the league and viewers point allowed.
Speaker 3: Wow, how about that?
Speaker 8: As we know with the Dan Fouts teams and the
Speaker 8: Philip Rivers, and you know the big year of by
Speaker 8: La Damian Tomlinson in two thousand six, they've led the
Speaker 8: league in scoring okay, quite a few times. But as
Speaker 8: far as points allowed, that's a different story for this franchise.
Speaker 8: And their defense really really gets after you. And in
Speaker 8: the way Kansas City has played offense this year. And
Speaker 8: I know the game's in Arrowhead and right off the
Speaker 8: top of my head, I think the Chiefs have beaten
Speaker 8: him six times in a row. Okay, But there's something
Speaker 8: about the Chiefs. I think people keep waiting for them
Speaker 8: to stub their toes and it's the other team that
Speaker 8: stubbed their toes, is it?
Speaker 3: They kind of like people kept waiting for Tom Brady
Speaker 3: and the papers to fall off a cliff.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, absolutely, And that's why. You know, that's why when
Speaker 8: you hear about former players talk about the Patriots and
Speaker 8: they talk about the different things. Bill belichicked it. He
Speaker 8: left no stone unturned, okay, in terms of preparation, and
Speaker 8: that's one of the Patriots. When these weird things happened
Speaker 8: and they were put in situations, they were not surprised. Okay,
Speaker 8: the defense and Malcolm Butler was not surprised when Russell
Speaker 8: Wilson dropped back to pass. Okay, let's I know. People
Speaker 8: want to blame Russell Wilson and they want to blame
Speaker 8: Pete Carroll. And you certainly could considering the way marsh
Speaker 8: Hunt Lynch likes to run through people. Okay, but you
Speaker 8: can't say that New England was surprised by that decision.
Speaker 8: Patriots got beaten Super Bowl. Sure, the Giants did the twice.
Speaker 8: The Eagles obviously, you know, but preparation is why, and
Speaker 8: that's why Tom Brady was as good. The thing I'd
Speaker 8: admire the most about Tom Brady was the fact that
Speaker 8: he understood and at least and this is from afar,
Speaker 8: he understood that he was it was not all about him. Okay,
Speaker 8: he was part of the team. Now, I'm not saying
Speaker 8: that Bill Belichick didn't drill the dis into his head.
Speaker 8: I'm sure he certainly did. Okay, but we saw that
Speaker 8: many instances where Brady didn't have to play well and
Speaker 8: they won. And yet Brady throws her five hundred and
Speaker 8: five yards in the Super Bowl against the Eagles and loses. Okay. Now,
Speaker 8: there was the critical fumbled lake in the game, but
Speaker 8: that didn't take away from the fact that the Eagles
Speaker 8: moved the ball will against them in Super Bowl fifty two.
Speaker 8: So that was the thing I always admired about. Plus
Speaker 8: even the year they didn't win the Super Bowl, I
Speaker 8: still think this is one of the three greatest clutch
Speaker 8: plays in the history of the NFL, and I've been
Speaker 8: watching for fifty years. When he converts that fourth down
Speaker 8: at Denver with Rob Gronkowski in the AFC title game,
Speaker 8: that was Yeah, that's like standing ovation.
Speaker 3: No, sure, yeah, absolutely, standing ovation. Absolutely.
Speaker 8: I don't know if I answered your last two.
Speaker 3: Questions, but no, no, that's fine. Listen, you know, sitting
Speaker 3: here and listen to you go on about that at all.
Speaker 3: I just the bottom line is is that you know,
Speaker 3: the Chiefs continue to defy whatever our expectations are. They
Speaker 3: get another challenge against the Charges this week, I just wonder,
Speaker 3: and the Bills will get tested going out on the road.
Speaker 3: I think to play the Rams this week. But I'm
Speaker 3: just I for some reason another I still have that
Speaker 3: little bit of doubt in my head in the back
Speaker 3: of my head about Buffalo. And maybe it's because of
Speaker 3: the I don't know, the apparent recklessness of a guy
Speaker 3: like you know, you know their quarterback, or or you know,
Speaker 3: some of the questionable play calling of their coach or
Speaker 3: whatever it may be. They're just a doubt. And maybe
Speaker 3: it's because these guys are going for you just feel
Speaker 3: like if they get into the big opportunity, they're going
Speaker 3: to blow it again. I don't know. It might not
Speaker 3: be anything more complicated than that. Well, but I'm rooting
Speaker 3: for that game to where either Detroit or Buffalo has
Speaker 3: to finally win it.
Speaker 8: Well, I will say this, Josh Allen has been a
Speaker 8: lot less recknand yeah, yeah, okay, is ball security and
Speaker 8: so on. I don't think there's any question he's having
Speaker 8: his best cheer. The trepidation for me with Buffalo might
Speaker 8: be their defense. Okay, and that's not the saying their
Speaker 8: defense isn't playing very well. It is, but I think
Speaker 8: it's a defense that also can you can move the
Speaker 8: ball against?
Speaker 3: Sure they do.
Speaker 8: They're a team that certainly relies on takeaways. There are
Speaker 8: I'm just looking at the tide perspective in the league
Speaker 8: with twenty four takeaways. But by the way, John, just
Speaker 8: in case you don't get your wish and I agree
Speaker 8: with I agree with you because I think a lot
Speaker 8: of people would like to see the Lions and the Bills,
Speaker 8: just from what you read around on social media and
Speaker 8: you know, other shows and different things like that. There
Speaker 8: is a fascination with two franchises that have never won
Speaker 8: a Super Bowl facing each other, and of course one
Speaker 8: franchise has never been there. Do you know who the Bills?
Speaker 3: I believe they would play? Uh, well, hold on, can
Speaker 3: I cheat?
Speaker 8: Of course you can?
Speaker 3: Well, I think let's see on the I know that
Speaker 3: They've got the Patriots twice in their last three games.
Speaker 3: So so after they played the Rams, Uh, where are
Speaker 3: they hold it? Where is it? I had it here
Speaker 3: a second ago. Oh they got the Lions. Duh, right,
Speaker 3: yeah you did, you did? They got the Lions. So
Speaker 3: we get the we get what what I hope and
Speaker 3: what I know a lot of people hope is the
Speaker 3: Super Bowl preview? Right, and they're playing at Detroit. So hey, listen,
Speaker 3: uh if the Patriots, I mean, look, I realized the Patriots,
Speaker 3: you know, the way that the schedule popped out, they
Speaker 3: got to play him twice in the last three weeks.
Speaker 3: But you know, Buffalo has already clenched everything. So I'm wondering,
Speaker 3: you know, A, are they going to be focused on
Speaker 3: Detroit and b that last game of the year. Shoot,
Speaker 3: there won't be anything to play for. I would imagine
Speaker 3: to see the team.
Speaker 8: They haven't clinched everything. They do not have home field. Okay,
Speaker 8: you don't know if the Kansas City. Kansas City has
Speaker 8: the better record than they do.
Speaker 3: That's true, which is why I don't know that the
Speaker 3: Bills are going to get home field like that.
Speaker 8: Well I don't know either. And by the way, to
Speaker 8: remind people the Bills had home field against the Chief
Speaker 8: last year in the divisional playoffs. Couldn't get it, couldn't
Speaker 8: get it done, and so but just off the top
Speaker 8: of my head, and I'm trying to remember what year
Speaker 8: it was, there was Thanksgiving, I think two years ago
Speaker 8: when the Bills and Lions played, and the Lions were
Speaker 8: starting to feel you could see them coming, okay, and
Speaker 8: they and I think Buffalo wound up eating them, either
Speaker 8: late and overtime or something like that. And I assume
Speaker 8: I also recalled that Buffalo has had to play other
Speaker 8: teams at Ford Field because the snow condition.
Speaker 6: Near that was.
Speaker 3: By the way, I never I never get tired of
Speaker 3: snow games. I don't. I mean, and even even when
Speaker 3: we have to play them, I just think it's it's
Speaker 3: so great and so fun to watch on television.
Speaker 8: Well it's it's it's it's what people grew up on. Okay,
Speaker 8: this is not baseball, and that's not a knock on baseball. Okay,
Speaker 8: the elements play what let me ask you this, what
Speaker 8: the hell would the ice boal be without any ice?
Speaker 3: I know exactly it wouldn't be without a frozen field.
Speaker 3: And by the way, you mentioned baseball. If we get
Speaker 3: golden at bat, I'm out. I'm out. I'm not watching
Speaker 3: that garbage.
Speaker 8: I'm not watching Look at Chris Berman just dropped popped
Speaker 8: in my head. And when you think that, you know
Speaker 8: the oh, it's not frozen anymore.
Speaker 3: Uh, the the tundra yield the frozen.
Speaker 8: But I mean, you know, we've seen the great snow Game.
Speaker 8: I remember Lashawn McCoy a couple of years ago running
Speaker 8: through the Lions and Buccaneers, Packers, and you know watching
Speaker 8: you know, team games almost getting canceled because of that.
Speaker 8: And it's not because they're afraid that the players playing
Speaker 8: and there they want the fans to be able. You
Speaker 8: think the Bills fans are anxious to see the forty
Speaker 8: nine ers. What was it twenty bucks an hour and
Speaker 8: the Neil Shovel. By the way, for those who are
Speaker 8: not aware of how bad San Francisco has been the
Speaker 8: last couple of weeks, seventy three to twenty.
Speaker 3: Wow, I would never have guessed that.
Speaker 8: Certainly, yea with many three to twenty Packers. And you
Speaker 8: know what's really ironic, John, The last time the forty
Speaker 8: nine Ers went to the Super Bowl before last year
Speaker 8: was in twenty nineteen when they lost to the Chiefs
Speaker 8: the first time. The year afterwards, they didn't make the playoffs.
Speaker 3: Boy, so they've been up and down like a thermometer.
Speaker 8: Yeah, well, listen, it's not like the rest of the
Speaker 8: NFC West has given them a chance.
Speaker 3: That's true.
Speaker 8: The division is monkey. But yeah, you know, the Niners
Speaker 8: are one in three in the division. Last year they
Speaker 8: were five and one.
Speaker 3: Wow. And now at the other end of the spectrum again, Russell,
Speaker 3: thank you, my man. I appreciate you as always. Talk
Speaker 3: to you next week.
Speaker 8: I'd say, so, okay, and next next, Now, in some
Speaker 8: ways I'm looking forward to the last four weeks for
Speaker 8: this reason then, as well as many others.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no more buys, No more buys. Number one and
Speaker 3: number two, hey, for the Patriots is to start a
Speaker 3: twenty twenty five here already. So here we go. The
Speaker 3: evaluation process. If it hasn't already begun, it certainly has
Speaker 3: by now.
Speaker 8: We have seen more than one instances, even in this
Speaker 8: free agency era, that teams that play late one year
Speaker 8: can carry that over to the following year, depending on
Speaker 8: coaching changes, in personnel incidents like that. And so that's
Speaker 8: why you know, no tank you. Yep, I'll just leave
Speaker 8: it at that.
Speaker 3: No, thank you. Let's see who wants to play. Thank you, sir,
Speaker 3: talk to you soon week. Yes, sir, you got it.
Speaker 3: The one and only at Backs Football Guru on x
Speaker 3: Hey attention, Pat's Nation. The most nail binding action film
Speaker 3: of the season, Carry On, Starting tarn Edgerton, Sophia Carson,
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Speaker 3: and of course, our program brought to you by bud Light,
Speaker 3: Easy to Drake, Easy to Enjoy, bud Light, the official
Speaker 3: beer sponsor of the New England Patriots. Two quick emails
Speaker 3: to share. Our friend Klasy Claire says her good Drake
Speaker 3: may is obvious, but also the tight end duo, which
Speaker 3: I mentioned earlier in the show The Bad. Some of
Speaker 3: the coaching and coaching decisions pretty obvious. There ugly drops
Speaker 3: by the wide receivers. Yeah, I totally understand that. And
Speaker 3: our friend Aiden in California, right, John Man. All the
Speaker 3: negativity in this town sucks, says Ripe Patino right. I
Speaker 3: believe people are not seeing the forest through the trees.
Speaker 3: We knew this team had no talent. We're in the
Speaker 3: midst of a rebuild. I believe this was a year
Speaker 3: to see who the players they are only going to
Speaker 3: build with, but go to Warwick next year. I have
Speaker 3: faith that this team will do right and sign and
Speaker 3: draft players for next offseason. We're seeing the disparity and talent.
Speaker 3: Now we get address the needs and coaching staff to
Speaker 3: be able to put the players in the best position.
Speaker 3: And now that I'm done with my little rant, I'm
Speaker 3: visiting Boston next week. Any recommendations of dinner places or
Speaker 3: breakfast places in Boston be greatly appreciated. Well, look, dude,
Speaker 3: if you don't go to the North End and get
Speaker 3: some of the best Italian on the planet, certainly outside
Speaker 3: of Federal Hill in Providence, then you are sadly misdirected.
Speaker 3: And I'll just start with a Seaport's also a really
Speaker 3: nice area to go to in Boston. But you know,
Speaker 3: I listen me, I do the Italian thing. I've to
Speaker 3: admit I was in the Bahamas this last week because
Speaker 3: we talked about That's why we missed the show last week,
Speaker 3: I found a Carmines at Atlantis. They have a Carmines restaurant,
Speaker 3: Italian restaurant, you know where they serve it old family style.
Speaker 3: Check it out. Yes, I went. I know, I know,
Speaker 3: I'm in the Bahamas. What I'm gonna do. I'm eating
Speaker 3: Italian food, right. It was. It was good, it was spectacular.
Speaker 3: Same thing. I mean, come on, yeah, I mean, you
Speaker 3: can't mess up a good chicken or a good veal parm.
Speaker 3: You can't. That's a staple of life up here.
Speaker 1: So hungry, I'm literally looking my let's thinking about vill parp.
Speaker 3: I know, I know, uh, I'm totally with you on
Speaker 3: that one. Hey. Thanks to of course, you know, Evan
Speaker 3: Lazar and Karen Grigian and Matt Saint Jean for joining
Speaker 3: us here on the program today. Thanks for taking the
Speaker 3: time here to be with us and listen to our
Speaker 3: stuff here for today. Thanks to the Marine for putting
Speaker 3: all together as he always does. So the bye week
Speaker 3: we get by this week. Next week we'll be back.
Speaker 3: We'll actually have a game to talk about with the Patriots,
Speaker 3: you know, we'll start their last four week stretch here
Speaker 3: playing the Arizona Cardinals. We'll come back same Patch time,
Speaker 3: same patch channel next Wednesday. For more right here in
Speaker 3: Patriots Playbook. See you then.
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Speaker 2: He's a red shirt rookie at that point, so it's
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