WEBVTT - Can Anything Move the Needle?  Lanhee Chen Talks to Armstrong & Getty

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<v Speaker 1>See Armstrong and Getty show the Governor. You were part

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<v Speaker 1>of the debate prep. What can you tell us about

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<v Speaker 1>the bubble? Were folks wearing masks? Were you wearing a mask?

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<v Speaker 1>Was Rudy Giuliani wearing a mask? When they were when

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<v Speaker 1>you were working with the president and others in the room. No, No,

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<v Speaker 1>I was wearing masks in the room. Um, when we

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<v Speaker 1>were prepping the president during that period of time. Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>and we were in the group was about five or

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<v Speaker 1>six people in total. That's Chris Christie talking about debate prep.

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<v Speaker 1>The President has tested positive for coronavirus. He tweeted that

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<v Speaker 1>out last night. You know MSNBC is making a huge

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<v Speaker 1>deal out of that and how reckless they are. No,

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<v Speaker 1>none of us are wearing masks in this room right now. No.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't feel like we're being insane either. So well, No,

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<v Speaker 1>we work in a small group of people that interacts

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<v Speaker 1>on a daily basis, and we don't get tested every

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<v Speaker 1>day like all those people around the president. View. We're

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<v Speaker 1>joined by Lonnie Chen David and Diane Stephie, fellow in

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<v Speaker 1>American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Andtitution, hosted the

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<v Speaker 1>podcast Crossing Lines. With ln Hitchen on here. How are you. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm doing fine. It's slow newsday record. So it's just

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<v Speaker 1>it's just, you know, the announcement of a CB to

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<v Speaker 1>the Supreme Court seems like it happened six months ago. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>and as I texted to a friend this morning, we're

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<v Speaker 1>texting back and forth. They said, the last thing in

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<v Speaker 1>the world I am is superstitious, but I will not

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<v Speaker 1>utter the words. This is as crazy as it can

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<v Speaker 1>get out. No, you don't want to say that. So

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<v Speaker 1>what's your reaction to the announcement of the president's COVID status. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, first of all, you you hope he's able

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<v Speaker 1>to make a quick recovery. Same thing for the first

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<v Speaker 1>lady and and for people who may have been exposed.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, that's really the big question now is you've

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<v Speaker 1>got this detective work of doing to figure out, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>exactly who may have been involved. You've played that, Chris

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<v Speaker 1>Christie clip. I mean, obviously the President has been in

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<v Speaker 1>contact with a bunch of people. My presumption is that

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<v Speaker 1>they'll test Biden as well. Even though the President and

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<v Speaker 1>him weren't all that close in the debate, you know

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<v Speaker 1>they were, they were potentially close enough indoors, So I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>they are just things that they need to track down

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<v Speaker 1>in terms of how it impacts the race. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>I've I've I've heard and thought about everything under the

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<v Speaker 1>sun from this is this is the October surprise. It's

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<v Speaker 1>going to completely un ended up end the race too.

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<v Speaker 1>It's really just not gonna have much of an impact

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<v Speaker 1>at all. My my view is the dynamics of the

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<v Speaker 1>race don't really change. Uh, you know, it is what

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<v Speaker 1>it is. It's going to change the campaign schedule over

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<v Speaker 1>the next week to two weeks, to be sure, but

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that anybody. Again, the question that I've

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<v Speaker 1>been asking all morning or since last night is does

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<v Speaker 1>this change anyone's mind about the election? And I'm just

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<v Speaker 1>not sure it does, at least until we know a

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<v Speaker 1>little bit more about the president's condition. Hey, here's a

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<v Speaker 1>good thing to ask you about, because I've I've heard

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<v Speaker 1>this a couple of times this week, and it's probably

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<v Speaker 1>gonna be true. As you just said, even after the

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<v Speaker 1>coronavirus announcement. You go back to the UH average polling

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<v Speaker 1>lead Biden had over Trump in January, and it's about

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<v Speaker 1>the same that was pre impeachment, COVID, economy, George f

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<v Speaker 1>Wait justice. All these things lead is about the same

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<v Speaker 1>same with the right track, wrong track before any of

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<v Speaker 1>that started, about the same as it was now. It

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<v Speaker 1>would seem to me that nothing can move the needle.

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<v Speaker 1>You either can stomach Trump or you can't. And that's

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<v Speaker 1>where we are, you know. I think that's a good observation.

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<v Speaker 1>People have their minds made up about President Trump. They've

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<v Speaker 1>had a long time to figure out what they think

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<v Speaker 1>of him, uh, And so as a result, what you

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<v Speaker 1>will see are episodic differences. Right, So occasionally something happens

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<v Speaker 1>and a bump goes one way or the other. But

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<v Speaker 1>fundamentally people know what they think of President Trump because

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<v Speaker 1>he is the most covered in terms of the media, uh,

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<v Speaker 1>most kind of out there public figure we have in

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<v Speaker 1>our country, perhaps in the world, And so you know

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<v Speaker 1>what you think of him. And that's kind of why

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<v Speaker 1>I'm I'm floored by the notion that they're undecided voters

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<v Speaker 1>still at this point. And I kind of wonder sometimes

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<v Speaker 1>like are they really undecided? Are they just looking for

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<v Speaker 1>attendent or are they stupid? Because are they really really

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<v Speaker 1>stupid people? I'd like to stand up for the voters

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<v Speaker 1>of America. But go on, Lonnie, No, I mean, I mean,

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<v Speaker 1>I just think that it's it is. It's got to

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<v Speaker 1>be the case that you have at least a gut

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<v Speaker 1>instinct about Donald Trump by this point, and you've had

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<v Speaker 1>it for some time. And this is why, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>at the end of the day. I still have a

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<v Speaker 1>tough time seeing all of these late breakers go for

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<v Speaker 1>President Trump at the end of the day, because I

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<v Speaker 1>feel like you've got an opinion and if you still

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<v Speaker 1>haven't figured out that you like him, you probably won't

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<v Speaker 1>before him when it comes to election day. See. So

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<v Speaker 1>it's it's interesting. I don't know. I think it is

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<v Speaker 1>um it's more a question of I like him on policy,

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<v Speaker 1>I can't stomach him as a human being. And people

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<v Speaker 1>are undecided which way that push and pull is going

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<v Speaker 1>to propel them. I think they're they're less undecided about

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<v Speaker 1>the candidates and more can I pull the lever for

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<v Speaker 1>Trump or pull it again? Having said that, in again,

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<v Speaker 1>it seems like it was months ago. Did you hear

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<v Speaker 1>there was a debate, Lonnie was like seventy two hours ago.

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<v Speaker 1>It seems like it almost seems irrelevant. It was seventy

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<v Speaker 1>two hours ago. I know, what's your take on that? Um,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, I called it the Black Guys for Democracy

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<v Speaker 1>right after the debate. I really thought it was one

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<v Speaker 1>of them, since well, I just can't imagine why one

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<v Speaker 1>would conclude that. No. I mean I I watched it

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<v Speaker 1>and I thought, you know, if if you wanted to

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<v Speaker 1>learn something, did you really learn anything? Probably not. What

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<v Speaker 1>you saw was, you know, really kind of petulant, childlike

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<v Speaker 1>behavior at various points during during the debate. And I

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<v Speaker 1>sort of thought after it was done, like, gosh, wouldn't

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<v Speaker 1>it be nice if we didn't have any more of these?

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<v Speaker 1>And now actually here we are on Friday, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>thinking we might not have any more peace for for

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<v Speaker 1>very different reasons than I thought before. Um the debate.

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<v Speaker 1>The problem with that debate format is when you don't

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<v Speaker 1>empower the moderator to really do a whole lot more

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<v Speaker 1>except for telling the people that are doing bad thing

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<v Speaker 1>to stop and not really giving him the authority to

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<v Speaker 1>stop them in any real way. When you have this

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<v Speaker 1>format that essentially, you know, doesn't really allow for constructive engagement,

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<v Speaker 1>That's why I do think they've got to sitting through

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<v Speaker 1>the rules as not after this cycle for future cycles.

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<v Speaker 1>But I, UM, I didn't get a whole lot out

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<v Speaker 1>of it, and I'm pretty sure most American didn't either. Well,

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<v Speaker 1>now that I've watched parts of it, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>after it happened, so I don't have any of the

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<v Speaker 1>the emotion or excitement or the newness or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>Trump made some really good points. He got in the way,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, he thought he was being aggressive. His aggressiveness

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<v Speaker 1>worked against him in several instances in which he should

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<v Speaker 1>have just let Biden lay out for a for two

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<v Speaker 1>full minutes why he's not going to answer the question

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<v Speaker 1>on packing the Supreme Court, for instance. Yeah. I thought

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<v Speaker 1>the strongest part of the debas of Trump was actually

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<v Speaker 1>opening when he talked about the Supreme Court and he

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<v Speaker 1>talked about why it was that he had chosen Amy

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<v Speaker 1>Coney Barrett, why it was that that that he was,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, essentially constitutally entitled to make that ways. I

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<v Speaker 1>thought that was the best part of the debate. Honestly,

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<v Speaker 1>I thought he made his points clearly. Um. I actually

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<v Speaker 1>didn't think the healthcare exchange was all that bad for

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<v Speaker 1>the president either. I think he was able to make

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<v Speaker 1>a couple of good points there. Um, I do think

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<v Speaker 1>the debate. You're right. I think as things went on,

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<v Speaker 1>he would have been better off just kind of standing

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<v Speaker 1>back and trying to let Biden make some coherent points,

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<v Speaker 1>because there are a couple of times where frankly, he

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<v Speaker 1>bailed him out. Absolutely he bailed he bailed Biden out.

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<v Speaker 1>I hope he realizes that. Um, I don't know. I

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<v Speaker 1>mean it's it's hard, right, Like people have asked me

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<v Speaker 1>after the debate, what would you what would you tell

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<v Speaker 1>Trump to do differently? How would you prepped him differently?

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<v Speaker 1>And it's like that's the premise of that question assumes

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<v Speaker 1>that you can prepped him at all, or that he's

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<v Speaker 1>willing to be prepped. I mean, he's got his own

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<v Speaker 1>way of doing things and it's his style. And yes,

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<v Speaker 1>with he a little hot, I think he was a

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<v Speaker 1>little hot. So I think he could calibrate that if

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<v Speaker 1>there is another debate, probably if he wanted to. But

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<v Speaker 1>that's really all you can kind of tell the guy,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, And and and overall the pressure points he

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<v Speaker 1>put on Biden, whether the law and order stuff or

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<v Speaker 1>you know, the stuff about Green New Deal, I thought

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<v Speaker 1>I thought those were the right pressure points to apply.

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<v Speaker 1>I don't know that I changed too much about the

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<v Speaker 1>substance of it if I were him, except for one thing.

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<v Speaker 1>I do think he needs to say more about what

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<v Speaker 1>he's going to do in the next four years. I think,

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<v Speaker 1>here to your point earlier about some people being not

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<v Speaker 1>sure if they can pull the lever form, at this point,

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<v Speaker 1>I think hearing more from him having some reassurance like, look,

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<v Speaker 1>here's what I'm going to do in the next four years.

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<v Speaker 1>I think that would help that dynamic tremendously. There is

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<v Speaker 1>so much that Biden said that it is worthy of

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<v Speaker 1>criticism politically, as an American, constitutionally the rest of it.

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<v Speaker 1>I hate to hammer on Trump, but I would love

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<v Speaker 1>to hear have I don't know, Mark Meadows and Ted

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<v Speaker 1>Cruz and Lindsey Graham get in his ear, presuming you know,

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<v Speaker 1>he recovers his health and tell him, next time Joe

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<v Speaker 1>Biden says they're going to take away your health care,

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<v Speaker 1>say these words, we will protect people with pre existing conditions.

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<v Speaker 1>Just say that. Make it explod is sit because people

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<v Speaker 1>are afraid as hell of that. And when Biden brought

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<v Speaker 1>that up, there was a weird rambling, kind of non

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<v Speaker 1>specific answer just I get that he wants to argue

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<v Speaker 1>in his own way, but it seemed like he did

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<v Speaker 1>not have those core five talking points ready and it

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<v Speaker 1>just frustrated the hell out of me. But you know,

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<v Speaker 1>at this point, probably enough has been said on that

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<v Speaker 1>long Hea Chen's got his own podcast. We understand you

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<v Speaker 1>had a good guest on your most recent Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 1>we we did an episode on Monday with a woman

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<v Speaker 1>named Elaine Kihano CBS News. She actually moderated the vice

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<v Speaker 1>presidential debate four years ago, the debate between Pence and

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<v Speaker 1>Tim Kane, and so I just wanted to ask, you know, hey,

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<v Speaker 1>what the light to moderate one of these things, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>and and in in light of all of the conversation

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<v Speaker 1>about the role of the moderator and what Chris Wallace did, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>it's actually kind of a fun episode to listen to,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, in terms of talking about she talked about

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<v Speaker 1>how she got picked and what it was like to

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<v Speaker 1>prepare and whether she was nervous or not having to

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<v Speaker 1>do that, and what it was like during the debate

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<v Speaker 1>and what the debates mean. So, yeah, go go have

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<v Speaker 1>a listen. It was a fun interview. Yeah, I'll check

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<v Speaker 1>that out. Yes, sounds really I wonder if the moderators

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<v Speaker 1>should should start by saying, look, for both of you,

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<v Speaker 1>I want you to commit right now to follow in

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<v Speaker 1>the rules that your campaigns agreed to before we get started.

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<v Speaker 1>Just right now, do you commit to this? And I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if that would help, but and if you don't,

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<v Speaker 1>I will beat the hell out of you, maybe maybe

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<v Speaker 1>a physical threat. I've got the Proud Boys here and

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<v Speaker 1>they're gonna rush the stage. Lani Chen is the David

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<v Speaker 1>and Diane Stephy Fellow in American Public Policy Studies at

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<v Speaker 1>the Hoover Institution, host of the podcast Crossing Lines with

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<v Speaker 1>Lani Chen. Lani, thank you so much for the conversation.

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<v Speaker 1>We'll talk soon. Thank you so yeah. I have. I've

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<v Speaker 1>heard that a couple of times this week, and that

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<v Speaker 1>is astounding. Sean has I almost said inadvertently, but that'd

0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.440
<v Speaker 1>be cruel. There's no reason to say that Sean has

0:10:49.600 --> 0:10:54.960
<v Speaker 1>nailed this whole thing from the beginning. Everybody, our producer, Sean,

0:10:55.480 --> 0:10:59.079
<v Speaker 1>Everybody's meter is completely stuck. If you go back to

0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:01.920
<v Speaker 1>January and the poll numbers are roughly the same, and

0:11:01.960 --> 0:11:05.760
<v Speaker 1>the right track wrong track is roughly the same. Given

0:11:06.080 --> 0:11:09.959
<v Speaker 1>the craziest year in in the world history outside of

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<v Speaker 1>maybe you know when the dinosaur has got obliterated or POMPEII.

0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.800
<v Speaker 1>Seventeen seventy six was pretty nutty. But nothing changed through

0:11:18.880 --> 0:11:22.800
<v Speaker 1>all of that. Well, maybe maybe the things just by

0:11:22.920 --> 0:11:28.400
<v Speaker 1>coincidence equalled each other. Half of it would have pushed people, right,

0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.760
<v Speaker 1>half of it would have pushed people and didn't neutralize

0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:33.600
<v Speaker 1>every It's just amazing. A quick note from our friends

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<v Speaker 1>If I'm a stand up comedian, I want a bunch

0:12:29.840 --> 0:12:31.480
<v Speaker 1>of him in the crowd. It might be because he

0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.880
<v Speaker 1>does all serious interviews, like all day long, well, and

0:12:34.960 --> 0:12:36.840
<v Speaker 1>he's got a really good sense of here and any

0:12:36.960 --> 0:12:41.360
<v Speaker 1>levity whatsoever. It's just going to see what right, So

0:12:41.600 --> 0:12:46.719
<v Speaker 1>outside the bounds, the president has the COVID, that's right.

0:12:47.080 --> 0:12:51.280
<v Speaker 1>What happens next? Suck well next? Well, I don't know.

0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:53.320
<v Speaker 1>If it'll shock depends how easily shocked people are.