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Speaker 1: See Armstrong and Getty show the Governor. You were part

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Speaker 1: of the debate prep. What can you tell us about

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Speaker 1: the bubble? Were folks wearing masks? Were you wearing a mask?

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Speaker 1: Was Rudy Giuliani wearing a mask? When they were when

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Speaker 1: you were working with the president and others in the room. No, No,

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Speaker 1: I was wearing masks in the room. Um, when we

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Speaker 1: were prepping the president during that period of time. Uh,

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Speaker 1: and we were in the group was about five or

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Speaker 1: six people in total. That's Chris Christie talking about debate prep.

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Speaker 1: The President has tested positive for coronavirus. He tweeted that

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Speaker 1: out last night. You know MSNBC is making a huge

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Speaker 1: deal out of that and how reckless they are. No,

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Speaker 1: none of us are wearing masks in this room right now. No.

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Speaker 1: I don't feel like we're being insane either. So well, No,

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Speaker 1: we work in a small group of people that interacts

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Speaker 1: on a daily basis, and we don't get tested every

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Speaker 1: day like all those people around the president. View. We're

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Speaker 1: joined by Lonnie Chen David and Diane Stephie, fellow in

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Speaker 1: American Public Policy Studies at the Hoover Andtitution, hosted the

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Speaker 1: podcast Crossing Lines. With ln Hitchen on here. How are you. Oh,

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Speaker 1: I'm doing fine. It's slow newsday record. So it's just

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Speaker 1: it's just, you know, the announcement of a CB to

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court seems like it happened six months ago. Well,

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Speaker 1: and as I texted to a friend this morning, we're

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Speaker 1: texting back and forth. They said, the last thing in

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Speaker 1: the world I am is superstitious, but I will not

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Speaker 1: utter the words. This is as crazy as it can

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Speaker 1: get out. No, you don't want to say that. So

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Speaker 1: what's your reaction to the announcement of the president's COVID status. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean, first of all, you you hope he's able

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Speaker 1: to make a quick recovery. Same thing for the first

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Speaker 1: lady and and for people who may have been exposed.

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Speaker 1: I mean, that's really the big question now is you've

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Speaker 1: got this detective work of doing to figure out, you know,

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Speaker 1: exactly who may have been involved. You've played that, Chris

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Speaker 1: Christie clip. I mean, obviously the President has been in

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Speaker 1: contact with a bunch of people. My presumption is that

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Speaker 1: they'll test Biden as well. Even though the President and

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Speaker 1: him weren't all that close in the debate, you know

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Speaker 1: they were, they were potentially close enough indoors, So I mean,

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Speaker 1: they are just things that they need to track down

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Speaker 1: in terms of how it impacts the race. You know,

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Speaker 1: I've I've I've heard and thought about everything under the

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Speaker 1: sun from this is this is the October surprise. It's

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Speaker 1: going to completely un ended up end the race too.

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Speaker 1: It's really just not gonna have much of an impact

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Speaker 1: at all. My my view is the dynamics of the

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Speaker 1: race don't really change. Uh, you know, it is what

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Speaker 1: it is. It's going to change the campaign schedule over

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Speaker 1: the next week to two weeks, to be sure, but

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Speaker 1: I don't know that anybody. Again, the question that I've

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Speaker 1: been asking all morning or since last night is does

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Speaker 1: this change anyone's mind about the election? And I'm just

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Speaker 1: not sure it does, at least until we know a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about the president's condition. Hey, here's a

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Speaker 1: good thing to ask you about, because I've I've heard

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Speaker 1: this a couple of times this week, and it's probably

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Speaker 1: gonna be true. As you just said, even after the

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Speaker 1: coronavirus announcement. You go back to the UH average polling

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Speaker 1: lead Biden had over Trump in January, and it's about

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Speaker 1: the same that was pre impeachment, COVID, economy, George f

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Speaker 1: Wait justice. All these things lead is about the same

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Speaker 1: same with the right track, wrong track before any of

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Speaker 1: that started, about the same as it was now. It

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Speaker 1: would seem to me that nothing can move the needle.

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Speaker 1: You either can stomach Trump or you can't. And that's

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Speaker 1: where we are, you know. I think that's a good observation.

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Speaker 1: People have their minds made up about President Trump. They've

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Speaker 1: had a long time to figure out what they think

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Speaker 1: of him, uh, And so as a result, what you

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Speaker 1: will see are episodic differences. Right, So occasionally something happens

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Speaker 1: and a bump goes one way or the other. But

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Speaker 1: fundamentally people know what they think of President Trump because

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Speaker 1: he is the most covered in terms of the media, uh,

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Speaker 1: most kind of out there public figure we have in

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Speaker 1: our country, perhaps in the world, And so you know

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Speaker 1: what you think of him. And that's kind of why

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm floored by the notion that they're undecided voters

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Speaker 1: still at this point. And I kind of wonder sometimes

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Speaker 1: like are they really undecided? Are they just looking for

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Speaker 1: attendent or are they stupid? Because are they really really

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Speaker 1: stupid people? I'd like to stand up for the voters

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Speaker 1: of America. But go on, Lonnie, No, I mean, I mean,

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Speaker 1: I just think that it's it is. It's got to

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Speaker 1: be the case that you have at least a gut

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Speaker 1: instinct about Donald Trump by this point, and you've had

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Speaker 1: it for some time. And this is why, you know,

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day. I still have a

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Speaker 1: tough time seeing all of these late breakers go for

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Speaker 1: President Trump at the end of the day, because I

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Speaker 1: feel like you've got an opinion and if you still

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Speaker 1: haven't figured out that you like him, you probably won't

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Speaker 1: before him when it comes to election day. See. So

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Speaker 1: it's it's interesting. I don't know. I think it is

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Speaker 1: um it's more a question of I like him on policy,

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Speaker 1: I can't stomach him as a human being. And people

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Speaker 1: are undecided which way that push and pull is going

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Speaker 1: to propel them. I think they're they're less undecided about

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Speaker 1: the candidates and more can I pull the lever for

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Speaker 1: Trump or pull it again? Having said that, in again,

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Speaker 1: it seems like it was months ago. Did you hear

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Speaker 1: there was a debate, Lonnie was like seventy two hours ago.

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Speaker 1: It seems like it almost seems irrelevant. It was seventy

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Speaker 1: two hours ago. I know, what's your take on that? Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, I called it the Black Guys for Democracy

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Speaker 1: right after the debate. I really thought it was one

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Speaker 1: of them, since well, I just can't imagine why one

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Speaker 1: would conclude that. No. I mean I I watched it

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Speaker 1: and I thought, you know, if if you wanted to

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Speaker 1: learn something, did you really learn anything? Probably not. What

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Speaker 1: you saw was, you know, really kind of petulant, childlike

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Speaker 1: behavior at various points during during the debate. And I

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Speaker 1: sort of thought after it was done, like, gosh, wouldn't

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Speaker 1: it be nice if we didn't have any more of these?

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Speaker 1: And now actually here we are on Friday, and I'm

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Speaker 1: thinking we might not have any more peace for for

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Speaker 1: very different reasons than I thought before. Um the debate.

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Speaker 1: The problem with that debate format is when you don't

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Speaker 1: empower the moderator to really do a whole lot more

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Speaker 1: except for telling the people that are doing bad thing

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Speaker 1: to stop and not really giving him the authority to

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Speaker 1: stop them in any real way. When you have this

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Speaker 1: format that essentially, you know, doesn't really allow for constructive engagement,

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Speaker 1: That's why I do think they've got to sitting through

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Speaker 1: the rules as not after this cycle for future cycles.

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Speaker 1: But I, UM, I didn't get a whole lot out

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Speaker 1: of it, and I'm pretty sure most American didn't either. Well,

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Speaker 1: now that I've watched parts of it, uh, you know,

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Speaker 1: after it happened, so I don't have any of the

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Speaker 1: the emotion or excitement or the newness or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: Trump made some really good points. He got in the way,

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Speaker 1: you know, he thought he was being aggressive. His aggressiveness

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Speaker 1: worked against him in several instances in which he should

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Speaker 1: have just let Biden lay out for a for two

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Speaker 1: full minutes why he's not going to answer the question

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Speaker 1: on packing the Supreme Court, for instance. Yeah. I thought

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Speaker 1: the strongest part of the debas of Trump was actually

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Speaker 1: opening when he talked about the Supreme Court and he

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Speaker 1: talked about why it was that he had chosen Amy

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Speaker 1: Coney Barrett, why it was that that that he was,

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Speaker 1: you know, essentially constitutally entitled to make that ways. I

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Speaker 1: thought that was the best part of the debate. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: I thought he made his points clearly. Um. I actually

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Speaker 1: didn't think the healthcare exchange was all that bad for

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Speaker 1: the president either. I think he was able to make

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Speaker 1: a couple of good points there. Um, I do think

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Speaker 1: the debate. You're right. I think as things went on,

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Speaker 1: he would have been better off just kind of standing

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Speaker 1: back and trying to let Biden make some coherent points,

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Speaker 1: because there are a couple of times where frankly, he

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Speaker 1: bailed him out. Absolutely he bailed he bailed Biden out.

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Speaker 1: I hope he realizes that. Um, I don't know. I

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Speaker 1: mean it's it's hard, right, Like people have asked me

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Speaker 1: after the debate, what would you what would you tell

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Speaker 1: Trump to do differently? How would you prepped him differently?

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Speaker 1: And it's like that's the premise of that question assumes

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Speaker 1: that you can prepped him at all, or that he's

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Speaker 1: willing to be prepped. I mean, he's got his own

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Speaker 1: way of doing things and it's his style. And yes,

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Speaker 1: with he a little hot, I think he was a

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Speaker 1: little hot. So I think he could calibrate that if

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Speaker 1: there is another debate, probably if he wanted to. But

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Speaker 1: that's really all you can kind of tell the guy,

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Speaker 1: you know, And and and overall the pressure points he

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Speaker 1: put on Biden, whether the law and order stuff or

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Speaker 1: you know, the stuff about Green New Deal, I thought

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Speaker 1: I thought those were the right pressure points to apply.

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Speaker 1: I don't know that I changed too much about the

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Speaker 1: substance of it if I were him, except for one thing.

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Speaker 1: I do think he needs to say more about what

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Speaker 1: he's going to do in the next four years. I think,

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Speaker 1: here to your point earlier about some people being not

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Speaker 1: sure if they can pull the lever form, at this point,

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Speaker 1: I think hearing more from him having some reassurance like, look,

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Speaker 1: here's what I'm going to do in the next four years.

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Speaker 1: I think that would help that dynamic tremendously. There is

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Speaker 1: so much that Biden said that it is worthy of

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Speaker 1: criticism politically, as an American, constitutionally the rest of it.

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Speaker 1: I hate to hammer on Trump, but I would love

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Speaker 1: to hear have I don't know, Mark Meadows and Ted

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Speaker 1: Cruz and Lindsey Graham get in his ear, presuming you know,

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Speaker 1: he recovers his health and tell him, next time Joe

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Speaker 1: Biden says they're going to take away your health care,

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Speaker 1: say these words, we will protect people with pre existing conditions.

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Speaker 1: Just say that. Make it explod is sit because people

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Speaker 1: are afraid as hell of that. And when Biden brought

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Speaker 1: that up, there was a weird rambling, kind of non

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Speaker 1: specific answer just I get that he wants to argue

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Speaker 1: in his own way, but it seemed like he did

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Speaker 1: not have those core five talking points ready and it

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Speaker 1: just frustrated the hell out of me. But you know,

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Speaker 1: at this point, probably enough has been said on that

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Speaker 1: long Hea Chen's got his own podcast. We understand you

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Speaker 1: had a good guest on your most recent Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: we we did an episode on Monday with a woman

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Speaker 1: named Elaine Kihano CBS News. She actually moderated the vice

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Speaker 1: presidential debate four years ago, the debate between Pence and

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Speaker 1: Tim Kane, and so I just wanted to ask, you know, hey,

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Speaker 1: what the light to moderate one of these things, you know,

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Speaker 1: and and in in light of all of the conversation

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Speaker 1: about the role of the moderator and what Chris Wallace did, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it's actually kind of a fun episode to listen to,

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Speaker 1: you know, in terms of talking about she talked about

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Speaker 1: how she got picked and what it was like to

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Speaker 1: prepare and whether she was nervous or not having to

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Speaker 1: do that, and what it was like during the debate

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Speaker 1: and what the debates mean. So, yeah, go go have

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Speaker 1: a listen. It was a fun interview. Yeah, I'll check

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Speaker 1: that out. Yes, sounds really I wonder if the moderators

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Speaker 1: should should start by saying, look, for both of you,

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Speaker 1: I want you to commit right now to follow in

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Speaker 1: the rules that your campaigns agreed to before we get started.

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Speaker 1: Just right now, do you commit to this? And I

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Speaker 1: don't know if that would help, but and if you don't,

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Speaker 1: I will beat the hell out of you, maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: a physical threat. I've got the Proud Boys here and

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Speaker 1: they're gonna rush the stage. Lani Chen is the David

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Speaker 1: and Diane Stephy Fellow in American Public Policy Studies at

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Speaker 1: the Hoover Institution, host of the podcast Crossing Lines with

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Speaker 1: Lani Chen. Lani, thank you so much for the conversation.

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Speaker 1: We'll talk soon. Thank you so yeah. I have. I've

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Speaker 1: heard that a couple of times this week, and that

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Speaker 1: is astounding. Sean has I almost said inadvertently, but that'd

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Speaker 1: be cruel. There's no reason to say that Sean has

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Speaker 1: nailed this whole thing from the beginning. Everybody, our producer, Sean,

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Speaker 1: Everybody's meter is completely stuck. If you go back to

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Speaker 1: January and the poll numbers are roughly the same, and

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Speaker 1: the right track wrong track is roughly the same. Given

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Speaker 1: the craziest year in in the world history outside of

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Speaker 1: maybe you know when the dinosaur has got obliterated or POMPEII.

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Speaker 1: Seventeen seventy six was pretty nutty. But nothing changed through

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Speaker 1: all of that. Well, maybe maybe the things just by

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Speaker 1: coincidence equalled each other. Half of it would have pushed people, right,

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Speaker 1: half of it would have pushed people and didn't neutralize

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Speaker 1: If I'm a stand up comedian, I want a bunch

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Speaker 1: of him in the crowd. It might be because he

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Speaker 1: does all serious interviews, like all day long, well, and

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Speaker 1: he's got a really good sense of here and any

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Speaker 1: levity whatsoever. It's just going to see what right, So

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Speaker 1: What happens next? Suck well next? Well, I don't know.

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Speaker 1: If it'll shock depends how easily shocked people are.