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Speaker 1: Just a quick heads up. Today's episode talks about sexual violence.

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Speaker 1: We're also recording on fourth of July evening, and I

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Speaker 1: happened to live in a neighborhood that is very festive,

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Speaker 1: where folks really enjoy their illegal fireworks. So we will

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Speaker 1: do our best to have the sound not sound like

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Speaker 1: I'm recording in a place where fireworks are going off

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Speaker 1: every couple of seconds. But I am recording in a

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Speaker 1: place where fireworks are going off every few seconds, So

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Speaker 1: just keep that in mind. There are No Girls on

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Speaker 1: the Internet. As a production of My Heart Radio and

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Speaker 1: Unbossed Creative, I'm Bridget Todd, and this is there are

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Speaker 1: No Girls on the Internet. Today's episode is going to

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Speaker 1: be a little bit different. I wanted to talk to

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Speaker 1: a topic that I've been dying to cover for a

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Speaker 1: very long time. It's also a little bit controversial. You know.

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Speaker 1: I have made episodes about everything involving white supremacists, quan

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Speaker 1: O cultists, big name companies who have asked me to

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Speaker 1: cease and desist talking about them, you name it. However,

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Speaker 1: this is still one of the only topics that I've

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Speaker 1: been a little bit worried about diving into because I

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Speaker 1: know folks have really strong opinions about it. So to

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Speaker 1: help me talk through today's topic, I am joined by

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Speaker 1: There Are No Goes on the Internet producer and chief

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Speaker 1: Science Officer, Mike. Producer, Mike, thank you so much for

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Speaker 1: being here. Thank you for having me. I'm glad I

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Speaker 1: can be here to help make this episode. Me too,

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Speaker 1: Me too. Did you do anything fun for Fourth of July?

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Speaker 1: It doesn't too exciting, just hanging out in my apartment

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Speaker 1: listening to the constant fireworks outside. I feel it's like

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Speaker 1: a new thing the past couple of years that fireworks

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Speaker 1: just start around nude and then go until midnight, and uh,

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Speaker 1: and I'm here for it. It's pretty exciting. Yeah, pretty exciting.

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Speaker 1: Not the best conditions for recording a podcast, but we'll

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Speaker 1: make it work. So I know that you are a

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Speaker 1: fan of podcasts where the hosts kind of revisit a

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Speaker 1: story about a public figure, usually a woman like Mondaklinsky

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Speaker 1: or Courtney Love, and point out all of the unfair

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Speaker 1: ways that this person has been maligned by society and

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Speaker 1: the media, and we all kind of have this public

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Speaker 1: recomming about the ways that the media can be unfair

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Speaker 1: or sexist or all around harmful. I love podcasts like that,

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Speaker 1: and Mike, I know that you do as well. It's true.

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Speaker 1: I think it's a great format. I think, uh it

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Speaker 1: really works well with the classic podcast dynamic of like

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Speaker 1: one person explaining, one person listening. And I also thinks

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Speaker 1: that it's uh a format for which there's many great

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Speaker 1: examples because uh, you know, society just loves to smear

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Speaker 1: and orch a woman. So I love podcasts like that

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Speaker 1: as well. But I want to be very clear this

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Speaker 1: episode is not going to be one of those podcast episodes,

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Speaker 1: even though I am the person who's did all the

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Speaker 1: research and I will be explaining the situation to you, Mike.

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Speaker 1: So it's a little bit like those, But today we

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Speaker 1: are not trying to sort of demonstrate the way that

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Speaker 1: the media unfairly maligned somebody. We are zeroing in on

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Speaker 1: one specific misleading claim about none other than Lena Dunham.

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Speaker 1: I am in no way making a larger point about

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Speaker 1: the way that the media and society has portrayed her broadly,

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Speaker 1: but I do want to zero in on this one

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Speaker 1: specific claim and analyze how it became to be this

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Speaker 1: very sticky, persistent lie that still endures online today and

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Speaker 1: what that lie says about our culture? Yes, So why

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Speaker 1: Lena Dunham, Why this one specific thing? Great question. So

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Speaker 1: a little bit of background about how I came to

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Speaker 1: be making this episode. I used to work on the

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Speaker 1: social media team at m s NBC dot com and

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Speaker 1: one of our kind of tried and true digital engagement

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Speaker 1: tricks was to post about someone, a public figure that

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Speaker 1: we knew our audience would engage with, positive or negative.

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Speaker 1: This is back In, and our audience used to love

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Speaker 1: to hate on Putin, and so whenever we posted something

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Speaker 1: about Putin that posted that cast him in a negative light,

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Speaker 1: we could always expect that people would really engage. Without

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Speaker 1: a lot they'd be leaving like mean comments like yeah

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Speaker 1: we hate him. They they love to hate on Putin.

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Speaker 1: But hands down, no question, the public figure that got

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Speaker 1: the most hate on out all of our social media

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Speaker 1: pages was Lena Dunham. I think, if I'm recalling correctly,

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Speaker 1: I think people disliked Lena Dunham more than they disliked Putin,

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Speaker 1: which is really saying something. And I used I worked

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Speaker 1: on this podcast project where Lena Dunham was one of

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Speaker 1: our guests. And again, you know, we had posted episodes

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Speaker 1: with all different types of public figures and celebrities, but

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Speaker 1: when we posted our Lenda Dunham episode, it was instant

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Speaker 1: unanimous negative feedback. And so I noticed whenever we would

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Speaker 1: publish about her, or post about her or feature her online,

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Speaker 1: commenters would always repeat, like a laundry list of reasons

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Speaker 1: they don't like her. You know. Sometimes they would be

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Speaker 1: the garden variety of things that you would expect, like oh,

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Speaker 1: she's a spoiled brad, I hate her, or you know,

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Speaker 1: oh she's gross, which is pretty much just kind of

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Speaker 1: fat phobia. But by far the most common thing I

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Speaker 1: would see commenters say about Lenda Dunam online was this

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Speaker 1: particularly persistent claim that she's a quote sexual predator who

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Speaker 1: admitted to molesting her younger sibling. And you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: always very interested in what I referred to as sticky

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Speaker 1: pieces of disinformation or misinformation or lies, you know, things

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Speaker 1: that really just seemed to cut through and persist. You know,

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Speaker 1: I'm very interested in why these things stick and to

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Speaker 1: what end, and what their stickiness tells us about our culture.

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Speaker 1: And in that regard, you know, this misleading claim about

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Speaker 1: Lenda Dunham is fast it into me because I think

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Speaker 1: It tells us a lot about the ways that are

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Speaker 1: political and social climates intersect, which is particularly important in

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Speaker 1: today's climate. And I just want to make it super

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Speaker 1: super clear because I can already hear people who are

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Speaker 1: listening thinking, why are you defending Lena Dunham. She's awful?

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Speaker 1: You know, what are you doing? Let me be very clear,

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Speaker 1: there are plenty of valid reasons to not rock with

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Speaker 1: Lena Dunham, some of which will be talking about in

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Speaker 1: this episode. So this is not me trying to get

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Speaker 1: anyone to think that Lynda Dunham is good, or it

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Speaker 1: is not me saying that every single claim about her

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Speaker 1: is unfair or untrue. But the claim that she sexually

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Speaker 1: abused her sibling, I believe is a pretty nasty thing

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Speaker 1: to repeat about somebody. And I don't know that people

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Speaker 1: who repeat this particularly nasty lie know that it initially

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Speaker 1: started as a right wing attack on a prominent liberal voice,

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Speaker 1: but because of Lena Dunham's overall I guess we'll say vibe,

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Speaker 1: this claim has really taken route, not just in right

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Speaker 1: wing circles but more generally too. Like people who I

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Speaker 1: believe probably have would never read a right wing blog,

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Speaker 1: you know, for any legitimate reason should probably be aware

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Speaker 1: that they are repeating a lie that was really cooked

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Speaker 1: up in the right wing blog is sphere, And I

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Speaker 1: think that should be really concerning. I think the ways

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Speaker 1: that this claim has sort of become true, that's scare

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Speaker 1: quotes around that, and has persisted for so long, should

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Speaker 1: really be concerning for all of us. So let's talk

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Speaker 1: about how and why that happened and what it means.

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Speaker 1: So for people like me who don't really know anything

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Speaker 1: about this, who is Lena Dunham? So if you don't

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Speaker 1: know who Lena Dunham is, I will give you kind

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Speaker 1: of a quick and dirty summary of her background. Lena

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Speaker 1: Dunham is an actor, producer, and writer. She's the daughter

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Speaker 1: of visual artist Laurie Simmons, who is a very big

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Speaker 1: deal in the art world because her art is incredible.

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Speaker 1: Lena rose to fame after making a really strong film

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Speaker 1: debut called Tiny Furniture, which is basically a semi autobiographical

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Speaker 1: movie about a young woman portrayed by Lena, who disgraduated

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Speaker 1: from college and is trying to navigate adulthood. Laurie Simmons,

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Speaker 1: her real life mom, plays her mom in the movie

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Speaker 1: and in the movie, her mom is also a visual

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Speaker 1: artist and photographer who stages these uh stages or pieces

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Speaker 1: with tiny dollhouse furniture, just like her mom does in

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Speaker 1: real life. And Lena's real life sibling, Cyrus Grace, plays

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Speaker 1: Lena's character sibling in the movie too, so it's very

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Speaker 1: semi autobiographical. In twelve, she created and started HBO's Girls,

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Speaker 1: which also explores kind of similar themes young white women

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Speaker 1: trying to navigate young adulthood post college in Brooklyn, New York.

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Speaker 1: Lena was born in nine six, so she is what

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Speaker 1: you would call a millennial, and when Girls was debuting,

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Speaker 1: it was kind of peak like what are the millennials

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Speaker 1: up to content time? Right? And so Girls was this

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Speaker 1: huge success. Pretty early on, it got a lot of

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Speaker 1: criticism for how white the show was, because just like

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Speaker 1: shows like Sex in the City and Friends before it,

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Speaker 1: it's just for white people who are not really encountering

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Speaker 1: a lot of diversity that I know that you would

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Speaker 1: find in a city like Brooklyn, New York. But regardless positive, negative,

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Speaker 1: whatever you thought, it was the kind of show that

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Speaker 1: people were talking about a lot like it was in

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Speaker 1: the discourse, which I think creates a certain kind of

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Speaker 1: gravitas around anything. And just as a side note, in

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Speaker 1: case you're curious, I actually watched and enjoyed the show.

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna sit here and act like I have

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Speaker 1: not seen every episode, or I am not going to

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Speaker 1: sit here and act like I did not immediately go

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Speaker 1: to a v club to read reviews immediately after watching episodes, because,

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Speaker 1: like I said, it was part of a discourse. You know,

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Speaker 1: the show created discourse, and I will never deprive myself

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Speaker 1: of discourse. Okay, if people are talking about something, if

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Speaker 1: there's articles and reviews to be read, I'm reading them.

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Speaker 1: I'm engaging. So Girls explore themes of sexuality, gender, and

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Speaker 1: female friendship, and it's highly anticipated third season comes out

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Speaker 1: in January. Now. In September of that same year, Lena

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Speaker 1: releases a memoir essay collection calls not that kind of girl.

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Speaker 1: Lena was having a really hot moment, and so the

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Speaker 1: book was a highly anticipated one. Random House purchased the

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Speaker 1: rights in October after a big bidding war, and bidding

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Speaker 1: was reported to have risen past three point five million dollars.

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Speaker 1: So it's one of those very hot, very big deal

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Speaker 1: book publishing projects. This was all happening against the backdrop

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Speaker 1: of a particular climate politically, culturally, and socially in the

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Speaker 1: mid twenty tins uh. If I had the ability to

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Speaker 1: clear music rights on this podcast, which my producer Tari

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Speaker 1: can tell you I bug her about pretty much every day,

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Speaker 1: this is where we'd be playing, like maybe Katie Perry's

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Speaker 1: Roar or Shake It Off by Taylor Swift, you know,

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Speaker 1: some other twenty hit to really set the scene. Might

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Speaker 1: do what were some other twenty hits, like hits of

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Speaker 1: the ts Rihanna? Maybe Rihanna was in there, like came

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Speaker 1: and Paula was in there. Maybe I'm getting a little

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Speaker 1: like late twenty tens. So just imagine that some some

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Speaker 1: kind of music from that era is playing as I

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Speaker 1: paint a portrait of what it was like in the

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Speaker 1: mid twenty tens. So in popular culture, the film Twelve

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Speaker 1: Years of Slave won Best Picture at the Oscars, in

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Speaker 1: which was hosted by openly gay Ellen DeGeneres and was

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Speaker 1: the most watched Oscars since the year two thousand. Waves

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Speaker 1: of states are passing marriage equality legislation. The Supreme Court

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Speaker 1: decides not to hear cases on marriage equality appeals, thus

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Speaker 1: immediately legalizing marriage equality in Virginia, Utah, Indiana, Oklahoma, and

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Speaker 1: Wisconsin before it sent back to the courts and ultimately

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Speaker 1: legalized nationwide. A year later, the Black Lives Matter movement

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Speaker 1: started and was really picking up. You have the shooting

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Speaker 1: deaths of Trayvon Martin and Florida, Mike Brown in Missouri,

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Speaker 1: and Eric Garner in New York, and the subsequent uprisings

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Speaker 1: all over the country shows that this movement has real

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Speaker 1: momentum and really it creates a national conversation that is

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Speaker 1: basically impossible to ignore. You'll remember that when President Obama

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Speaker 1: was asked about Trayvon Martin, he answered, if I had

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Speaker 1: a son, he would look a lot like Trayvon Martin.

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Speaker 1: Obama gave a televised speech announcing his plans to use

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Speaker 1: executive action to grant citizenship to about four point four

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Speaker 1: million immigrants. So I have my own feelings about Obama's

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Speaker 1: immigration policies, which is a podcast for another day. But

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Speaker 1: the point is Republicans and right wingers absolutely fucking hated this.

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Speaker 1: We also get Obamacare in two ten, and for the

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Speaker 1: next few years Republicans were fighting it tooth and nail,

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Speaker 1: including Obamacare's birth control coverage. Mandate. Mike, do you remember

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Speaker 1: that Georgetown law student and feminist activist Sandra Fluke? Had forgotten?

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Speaker 1: But now it's coming back to me. What was the

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Speaker 1: deal with Sandra Fluke? What do we know her name?

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Speaker 1: So in twelve, Sandra Fluke was barred from testifying about

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Speaker 1: birth can control during a hearing, and instead the only

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Speaker 1: people who testified about birth control was an all male

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Speaker 1: planel of clergy, and then Rush Limball called Sandra Fluke

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Speaker 1: these were the times where the phrase we were using,

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Speaker 1: the phrase quote war on women a lot like that

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Speaker 1: was a phrase that we were using, which I think

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Speaker 1: captured something about what it was like to live through

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Speaker 1: that era in but in a way kind of almost

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Speaker 1: seems quaint. Now when you look at everything else that

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Speaker 1: this would have going on, it does seem quaint. Now.

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Speaker 1: I remember that war on women phrase and boys, uh,

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Speaker 1: we thought that was a war on women. Buck. It's

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Speaker 1: funny because I wanted to do this episode because I

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Speaker 1: thought it was like a little bit of a departure

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Speaker 1: from everything happening in the news. But it's so funny

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Speaker 1: how it all. It always comes back to this. You know,

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Speaker 1: I feel like every time I look backwards to the

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Speaker 1: period like five fifteen years ago, I'm confronted with how

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Speaker 1: quaint my concerns felt, and how the things I was

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Speaker 1: alarmed about it seems so much smaller than the things

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Speaker 1: that are just like normal ship in the news today.

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Speaker 1: Oh my God, tell me about it. Let's say a

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Speaker 1: quick break out are back, so we're talking about this

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Speaker 1: war on women, but back in you also have Beyonce

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Speaker 1: performing in front of the word feminist in giant letters

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Speaker 1: like decked out in life at the MTV v M

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Speaker 1: as paired with a sample of Chimamanda and good speech

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Speaker 1: on feminism and expectations for women and girls. We'd seech

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Speaker 1: ghosts themselves to make themselves smaller. We see some girls

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Speaker 1: you can have ambition, but not so much. And this

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Speaker 1: I remember this. I remember coming into work the next

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Speaker 1: day after this aired, and it felt like a big

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Speaker 1: cultural moment for women and feminism. You know, I think

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Speaker 1: I've been a f I've identified like vocally as a

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Speaker 1: feminist for most of my life since I was a child.

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Speaker 1: But I think for a lot of people, when you

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Speaker 1: were asked like are you a feminist? It was something

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Speaker 1: you had to be a little bit wishy washy about it.

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Speaker 1: I feel like this moment with Beyonce, it felt like

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Speaker 1: a cultural moment where people wanted to say it with

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Speaker 1: their whole chests. Country pop sensation Taylor Swift famously came

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Speaker 1: out as a feminist in fourteen in an interview with

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Speaker 1: The Guardian where she credits her friend none other than

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Speaker 1: Lena Dunham with her feminist awakening. And I guess my

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Speaker 1: point is this, this era really feels like a time

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Speaker 1: where things like progressivism and diversity and feminism are coming

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Speaker 1: increasingly mainstream, and that they're becoming attached with a kind

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Speaker 1: of social currency. You know, it's not cool to be

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Speaker 1: aligned with old men dragging their feet and blocking marriage equality,

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Speaker 1: or calling college girls sluts for wanting to be on

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Speaker 1: birth control. None of that is cool. But what is

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Speaker 1: cool is being a feminist. It's cool to be a feminist,

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Speaker 1: it's cool to be an ally and in Lena Dunham

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Speaker 1: was a huge part of this climate. So culturally, Lena

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Speaker 1: Dunham's hit show Girls and her writing explores, you know,

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Speaker 1: themes of sexuality and gender and these really frank ways.

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Speaker 1: So that alone you know, creating work deposits that young

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Speaker 1: women have an interiority that is worthy of serious exploration

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Speaker 1: and respect is the thing that is really taking off

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Speaker 1: in the culture. You know, Lena Dunham is not a

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Speaker 1: size four and yet she is nude on screen and

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Speaker 1: has these sex scenes. She doesn't really great job of

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Speaker 1: highlighting that sort of humor and awkwardness, that kind of

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Speaker 1: company exploring your sexuality when you're young. You know what

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Speaker 1: she's doing on screen. It feels a little bit daring.

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Speaker 1: After the success of Girls, Lena starts Lenny Letter, a

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Speaker 1: feminist newsletter where you know, you have celebrities getting really

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Speaker 1: really raw but also talking about feminist issues. You know,

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Speaker 1: you have Jennifer Lawrence writing about the gender pay gap

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Speaker 1: in Hollywood and Kesha writing about her abuse at the

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Speaker 1: hands of her producer Dr Luke. This also translates politically.

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Speaker 1: Lena positions herself as a vocal feminist and a champion

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Speaker 1: for feminist causes. Another familiar trip down memory lane. Back around,

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Speaker 1: Planned Parenthood was facing a lot of b S political attacks.

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Speaker 1: Mike Pence was not just someone who was being threatened

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Speaker 1: with hanging and a gallows by his own constituents. Back

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Speaker 1: then he was the governor of Indiana, and he made

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Speaker 1: attacking planned parenthood and threatening to defund planned parenthood part

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Speaker 1: a big part of his whole overall thing. And we

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Speaker 1: also had these deceptively edited sting videos from anti abortion extremists.

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Speaker 1: You know, they would do things like have somebody dress

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Speaker 1: up like a pimp and then go in with women

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Speaker 1: to a planned parenthood and try to get services. Basically,

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Speaker 1: right wing types were really trying to make planned parenthood

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Speaker 1: and abortion and the kinds of exploration of sexuality and

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Speaker 1: gender that Lee never really does in her work. They

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Speaker 1: were really trying to brand that as something toxic that

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Speaker 1: nobody would want to be affiliated with. Only it wasn't

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Speaker 1: really working. Isn't it funny how Mike Penn's built his

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Speaker 1: whole career on like attacking people and making people seem

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Speaker 1: like evil villains, and then he arguably rode out his

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Speaker 1: career with members of his own party chanting to hang him. Uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, isn't that funny that you reap what you sow?

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Speaker 1: You know, you live by the stord, you die by

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Speaker 1: the sword. What can I say? Yeah, exactly, You live

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Speaker 1: by the jinn up outrage. You die by the Gallows.

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Speaker 1: So in the wake of all these attacks on planned parenthood,

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Speaker 1: Lena becomes the face of a campaign to fight back

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Speaker 1: called Women Are Watching. She designs a hot pink shirt

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Speaker 1: that says Lena loves planned parenthood in supported planned Parenthood,

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Speaker 1: and she gets other a list celebrities like America Vera

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Speaker 1: and Gabrielle Union to join in. Lena made this kind

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Speaker 1: of cheeky, kind of wink wink ad for the DNC

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Speaker 1: in supportive Obama. In your first time shouldn't be with

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Speaker 1: just anybody. You want to do it with a great guy.

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Speaker 1: It should be with a guy with beautiful someone who

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Speaker 1: really cares about and understands women, a guy who cares

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Speaker 1: whether you get health insurance and specifically whether you get

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Speaker 1: birth control. It was funny, Yeah, so it's playful. It's

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Speaker 1: kind of funny. It's a little edgy. Uh so. Probably unsurprisingly,

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Speaker 1: right wing types did not like this ad. Ben Shapiro,

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Speaker 1: who remember that name because he will be important, later

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Speaker 1: said that the ad mocked versions. His whole screed about

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Speaker 1: the ad is pretty amazing, so he writes in bright

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Speaker 1: bart So Lena chose to do it for the first

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Speaker 1: time with Barack Obama since he quote cares about and

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Speaker 1: understands women. In fact, he understands them so well that

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Speaker 1: he exploits them for insane commercials, comparing losing your virginity

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Speaker 1: with voting. Obama has a young daughter's, but that didn't

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Speaker 1: stop him from releasing this commercial because this is what

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Speaker 1: Obama thinks of your daughters. This is Obama's official campaign ad,

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Speaker 1: paid for with his campaign money distributed by his campaign.

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Speaker 1: If this ad were any more demeaning to women who

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Speaker 1: apparently care only about having sex, if you listen to

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Speaker 1: Lena you wanna do it, done him? It should be

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Speaker 1: produced by Bill Maher and star Bill Clinton. Oh wait,

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Speaker 1: that's Obama's actual campaign. According to Barack Obama, this campaign

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Speaker 1: isn't about the economy or foreign policy. It's about three

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Speaker 1: birth control as advocated by unbelievably wealthy celebrities. If Obama

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Speaker 1: goes any smaller in this campaign, we're gonna need a

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Speaker 1: microscope to find him. It's so in the top. I

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Speaker 1: just need a minute to choke down this moment. It

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Speaker 1: comes up at any time. Ben Shapiro's words up here,

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Speaker 1: it's you mentioned that he's going to be important later.

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Speaker 1: When is that? Like, when will he be important. We're

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Speaker 1: still waiting. I'm sure he's still waiting. I'm sure he's

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Speaker 1: been waiting his whole life to feel important. So they

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Speaker 1: did not like Lena's Obama at And actually I find

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Speaker 1: it so interesting how Shapiro uses Lena's involvement to really

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Speaker 1: shrink the issue of birth control coverage, like it is

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Speaker 1: simultaneously a small issue that is so small that it's

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Speaker 1: unbecoming of Obama to align himself with, and it is

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Speaker 1: also an issue that the right wing was actively exploding at,

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Speaker 1: elting down over, you know, holding hearings about it and

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Speaker 1: making it a huge deal. So you know, the math

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Speaker 1: isn't really math thing on that one, Like which one

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Speaker 1: is it? Is it so inconsequential that nobody should ever

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Speaker 1: care about it? Or is it this huge issue that

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Speaker 1: you need to hold a million hearings about, you know

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Speaker 1: which one? That's such a good observation. I ever thought

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Speaker 1: about it like that. But you're absolutely right. It's like

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Speaker 1: so consistent with their whole hypocrisy thing around the one hand,

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Speaker 1: when they're on the attack, like, oh, it's so inconsequential,

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Speaker 1: it's insulting to even bring up the concept of birth control.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, flip the screen and the only

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Speaker 1: thing that matters is abortion restrictions and preventing women from

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Speaker 1: having abortions. It's like two sides of the same coin,

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Speaker 1: but like one side is life or death for society,

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Speaker 1: on the other side is like trivial and brass. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's almost like some of these folks are not genuine actors.

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Speaker 1: It sounds like some of them are completely disingenuous. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it does. She almost like that. I mean, like that

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Speaker 1: can't be it. There's gotta be something more. I'll keep

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Speaker 1: thinking about it, keep thinking about it more. After a

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Speaker 1: quick break, let's get right back into it. Anyway. So

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Speaker 1: at this point, Lena is really proving herself to be

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Speaker 1: somebody with a certain kind of cultural cachet with millennial

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Speaker 1: young women, and somebody who seems to really know how

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Speaker 1: to leverage it for you know, big d democratic causes

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Speaker 1: in a way that actually cuts through. Like even though

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Speaker 1: right wingers did not like that ad, people talked about it,

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Speaker 1: people wrote about it. So lover her or hater, Lena

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Speaker 1: Dunham knows how to wield her own specific kind of political, social,

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Speaker 1: and cultural power. And the vibe around that is that

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Speaker 1: it's cool to care about politics, and it's cool to

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Speaker 1: care about feminism. Importantly, this is actually largely a phenomenon

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Speaker 1: on the left. There aren't really a lot of cool, young,

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Speaker 1: culturally relevant political celebrities on the right in the same

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Speaker 1: kind of way. Not to go on too much of

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Speaker 1: a tangent, but for a long time, people myself included,

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Speaker 1: assumed that Taylor Swift was a silent right winger because

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Speaker 1: she pretty much never spoke up about politics in interviews.

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Speaker 1: When she was asked if she was a feminist, she

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Speaker 1: would say things like, oh, I don't call myself a

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Speaker 1: feminist because I never believed in men versus women. But

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Speaker 1: her friendship with Lena Dunham gets Taylor to be this

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Speaker 1: loud and proud feminist who actually speaks up about politics

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Speaker 1: after a decade of staying quiet. And it's basically almost

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Speaker 1: like a right wing bogeyman come to life. You know,

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Speaker 1: you're sweet, blonde, conservative, country loving young woman will become

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Speaker 1: corrupted by a tattooed feminist with green hair and will

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Speaker 1: be pulled into identifying as a liberal feminist, So you know,

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Speaker 1: say what you will about Lena Dunham. That is a

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Speaker 1: certain type of cultural power and homegirld knows how to

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Speaker 1: use it. And you know, when it comes to the culture,

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Speaker 1: it was people like Lena Dunham who had the relevance.

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Speaker 1: And I can see how this would be really threatening

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Speaker 1: to right wing types who historically have had a lot

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Speaker 1: of political power. But they aren't cool, They're not young

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Speaker 1: or hip, and that is a problem for them. So

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Speaker 1: all of this is the backdrop on which a website

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Speaker 1: called Truth Revolt comes to exist. And to understand this

429
00:25:36,680 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 1: misleading claim that Lena Dunham sexually abused her sibling and

430
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: where it comes from, we have to first start by

431
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:46,320
Speaker 1: talking about Truth Revolt. Wait, so I was following along

432
00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 1: the whole way, but all of a sudden, now we're

433
00:25:48,359 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 1: talking about a website called truth Revolt. What is truth Rebolt?

434
00:25:52,520 --> 00:25:54,960
Speaker 1: Truth Revolt is a right wing website that was launched

435
00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:58,919
Speaker 1: on October seven. According to c SPAN, Truth Revolt is

436
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,000
Speaker 1: a politically concerned bit of media watchdog and activist group

437
00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:06,680
Speaker 1: founded by conservative commentators Ben Shapiro and David Horowitz of

438
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:09,879
Speaker 1: the David Horowitz Freedom Center as a counterpoint to the

439
00:26:09,920 --> 00:26:14,720
Speaker 1: politically progressive media Matters for America. Yes, Ben Shapiro is

440
00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:18,640
Speaker 1: the same person who wrote that breathless piece about lena'welve

441
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 1: ad for Obama, and so I note a lot of

442
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,320
Speaker 1: y'all probably know Ben Shapiro. He is pretty famous for

443
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,160
Speaker 1: being you know, he's young, I think he's thirty eight now.

444
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:31,200
Speaker 1: He's pretty famous for being this right wing media figure,

445
00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: and he's been at it since he was seventeen. I

446
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,360
Speaker 1: personally just find him awful. Like the fact that I'm

447
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:40,240
Speaker 1: even talking about him on this show is slightly annoying

448
00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:43,200
Speaker 1: to me, because I just don't like talking about him.

449
00:26:43,440 --> 00:26:45,000
Speaker 1: You know. I think one of the reasons why I

450
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 1: dislike him so much is because his whole thing is

451
00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:51,840
Speaker 1: culture war stuff, right, And so he's the guy with

452
00:26:51,960 --> 00:26:56,720
Speaker 1: a huge platform complaining about Disney making a woke remake

453
00:26:56,840 --> 00:27:00,200
Speaker 1: or something like that, or you know, he is the

454
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:06,359
Speaker 1: person who's always complaining about culture because culture tends to

455
00:27:06,400 --> 00:27:09,600
Speaker 1: be a space where, you know, people who are traditionally

456
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:12,840
Speaker 1: marginalized can have a little power and have a little

457
00:27:12,880 --> 00:27:15,840
Speaker 1: bit of a voice, and so he's constantly complaining about culture.

458
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:18,639
Speaker 1: The thing that always comes to mind when I think

459
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 1: about Ben Shapiro, I will always associate him with trying

460
00:27:22,640 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 1: to lead a moral crusade against Megan the Stallion and

461
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 1: Cardi Bi's song of the Summer Wet as Pussy and

462
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: kind of self owning himself by saying that the only

463
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,439
Speaker 1: reason so he says, oh, I I'm married to a doctor.

464
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: I talked to my doctor wife and she assures me

465
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,040
Speaker 1: that the only reason that a woman would have a

466
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:44,800
Speaker 1: w A P is if she had a vaginal infection,

467
00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: which is just hysterical. I think about it all the

468
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,440
Speaker 1: time and laugh. Yeah, it's the funniest thing about him,

469
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 1: is the only thing I think about when I think

470
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:57,840
Speaker 1: about him. It's like perfectly summarizes his whole culture war

471
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 1: thing where there was like a video I don't even

472
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:06,560
Speaker 1: think it was really edited of him like doing spoken

473
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:10,720
Speaker 1: word of the lyrics of that w AP song. Uh,

474
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:15,400
Speaker 1: and then him like commenting about yeah, exactly who said

475
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:19,280
Speaker 1: his wife, who apparently is a medical doctor, saying that

476
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,000
Speaker 1: the only reason it might happen is because of an affection.

477
00:28:22,720 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: It was sad and shocking, and I almost feel like

478
00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:30,040
Speaker 1: like he was setting us up, but like it's just

479
00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: too much humility. I think it's it just truly is

480
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:37,320
Speaker 1: that embarrassing for him? Yeah? I if folks have not

481
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 1: seen so the video that you're talking about. I definitely

482
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:42,280
Speaker 1: watched it a hundred of times. He is reading the

483
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:46,120
Speaker 1: lyrics on his show in disgust and so he's reading

484
00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:49,360
Speaker 1: the lyrics to Wet s Pussy. But then somebody and

485
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:52,080
Speaker 1: I think he's trying to demonstrate like this song is

486
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:54,479
Speaker 1: so immoral and like this is what our girls are

487
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:57,240
Speaker 1: listening to, and YadA, YadA, YadA. But then somebody to

488
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 1: a beat. Somebody puts it to the w A p

489
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:05,920
Speaker 1: bet and it kind of slaps not gonna It's hilarious,

490
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,360
Speaker 1: Like look it up. I I'll link it. I'll link

491
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 1: it in the show notes because I I watch it,

492
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 1: It's given me great joy. I'll put it that way. Yeah,

493
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,200
Speaker 1: And I think it's the best way to really understand

494
00:29:15,240 --> 00:29:19,960
Speaker 1: Benjapiro as a person and as a man exactly. And

495
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 1: obviously this is it sounds so silly, and it is silly,

496
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:27,160
Speaker 1: but it's also really important to this particular story because

497
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 1: turning culture into a political battleground is a big part

498
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,600
Speaker 1: of how we got here with this one persistent claim

499
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 1: about Lena Dunham, so Truth Revots mission page states that

500
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:40,960
Speaker 1: its goals are to quote unmasked leftist in the media

501
00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,680
Speaker 1: for who they are, destroy their credibility with the American public,

502
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,440
Speaker 1: and devastate their funding basis. So essentially, truth Revote was

503
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,560
Speaker 1: created per the co creator David Horbitt's own mission statement,

504
00:29:52,240 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: to manipulate media for political means. Here's what he wrote

505
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,040
Speaker 1: on the site. The media win elections for the left.

506
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,000
Speaker 1: It's not the competence in office. Leftists have demonstrated none.

507
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 1: It's not the left ideas. Leftist ideas have failed everywhere

508
00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 1: they've been tried. The left winds for one simple reason.

509
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,680
Speaker 1: Leftists control the information distribution system in the United States,

510
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:18,280
Speaker 1: and they use that system to pillary conservatives, heartless bigots

511
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:22,200
Speaker 1: intent on harming the poor and targeting minorities. The media

512
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 1: must be destroyed where they stand. That is our mission

513
00:30:24,960 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 1: at truth Revolt. The goal of truth Revolt is simple.

514
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,000
Speaker 1: Unmasked leftists in the media for who they are, destroy

515
00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 1: their credibility with the American public, and devastate their funding basis.

516
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:38,400
Speaker 1: Truth Revolt focuses on high profile media members and holding

517
00:30:38,400 --> 00:30:42,000
Speaker 1: them accountable. Truth Revolt also steaks to stop the left

518
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 1: dead in its tracks when it comes to training the

519
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 1: next generation on our college campuses. Truth Revolt works to

520
00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,840
Speaker 1: make advertisers and funders aware of the leftist propaganda they

521
00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,800
Speaker 1: sponsor and bringing social consequences to bear to create pressure

522
00:30:55,800 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 1: on such advertisers and funders. So pretty obviously from their

523
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,959
Speaker 1: own state meant Truth Revolt specifically is looking to quote

524
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 1: unmasked leftist and target specific leftist public figures in the

525
00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:10,520
Speaker 1: media to make them toxic for brands and funders to

526
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,480
Speaker 1: be associated with. And they're kind of modeling themselves after

527
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,840
Speaker 1: places like Media Matters for America, who monitor disinformers and

528
00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,960
Speaker 1: bad actors and extremists like Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon

529
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,560
Speaker 1: to pressure advertisers to drop them. Um. They're also specifically

530
00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:28,920
Speaker 1: focused around winning over young people like college students, who

531
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:33,040
Speaker 1: we know are Lena Dunham's biggest audience demographic. So obviously,

532
00:31:33,040 --> 00:31:35,480
Speaker 1: I think it goes without saying that Truth Revolt is

533
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 1: not just some you know, run of the mill media

534
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:42,840
Speaker 1: outlet reporting the facts from their own statement, they are

535
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,880
Speaker 1: a right wing outlet with a political acts to grind.

536
00:31:46,080 --> 00:31:49,800
Speaker 1: They are out for vengeance, they are out to dismantle

537
00:31:49,880 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 1: people take them down. By their own admission, this idea

538
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,400
Speaker 1: that like leftists are supported by is great funding. HAP

539
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 1: reads I know so many broke gass leftists she's talking

540
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:10,160
Speaker 1: about me separating from their funding is like not even

541
00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 1: the thing, like so many of them are broke, you know,

542
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:16,880
Speaker 1: Like where what is this like big leftist funding the

543
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 1: media that they're talking about. I mean, nothing that they

544
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:25,000
Speaker 1: say is accurate, you know, they say that like, oh,

545
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,200
Speaker 1: the media is a tool. Like the media like that

546
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,000
Speaker 1: the idea that that that the that mainstream media is

547
00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 1: a tool propping up leftist agendas. It's just I mean,

548
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:39,120
Speaker 1: it's such an un serious claim. I don't find it

549
00:32:39,160 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 1: worth they have a retort. It's just it's just like

550
00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:45,560
Speaker 1: you can just read the newspaper in the wake of

551
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,640
Speaker 1: the fall of Row, read the newspaper in the New

552
00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:50,720
Speaker 1: York Times today they I mean, I don't even want

553
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:53,200
Speaker 1: to get into it. But yes, it's it's such an

554
00:32:53,240 --> 00:32:57,480
Speaker 1: un serious claim that it's not even worthy of a response. Yeah,

555
00:32:57,520 --> 00:33:01,040
Speaker 1: it's it's like ludicrous. It's like who who owns the media?

556
00:33:01,160 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 1: We've got you know, NBC, you know, Jeff Bezos owns

557
00:33:07,160 --> 00:33:12,160
Speaker 1: the Washington Post. Like these are not leftist people, No,

558
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: it's it's horship. Okay, so you might be wondering this

559
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,120
Speaker 1: website sounds sketchy as hell. But what does it have

560
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 1: to do with Lena Dunham. Well, the claim that Lena

561
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: Dunham admitting to molesting her younger sibling was initially started

562
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:31,040
Speaker 1: on Truth Revolt. Oh shit, so that's the connection here.

563
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:37,280
Speaker 1: This truth ruble started this claim about Lena Dunham. I

564
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:41,120
Speaker 1: should have seen it coming, but somehow they snuck it

565
00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 1: in on me. It's true, and I should probably say

566
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:48,320
Speaker 1: that something that we know about disinformation and the way

567
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,840
Speaker 1: that it spreads oftentimes it contains some element or nugget

568
00:33:52,880 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 1: of truth that can be easily manipulated or taken out

569
00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: of context, and that is definitely what's happening here. So

570
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:03,120
Speaker 1: let's look at the facts. In September, Lena Dunham released

571
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 1: her memoir Not That Kind of Girl. Now, I have

572
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 1: read the memoir a couple of times, so, like, I'm

573
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:09,400
Speaker 1: pretty well versed on what it says and what it

574
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: doesn't say. And it does include passages of Lena describing

575
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:19,200
Speaker 1: sexual situations around her younger sibling. I should say right now,

576
00:34:19,480 --> 00:34:23,359
Speaker 1: Lena's sibling is called Cyrus Grace Dunham and uses they

577
00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:26,640
Speaker 1: them pronouns. But that was not the case when this

578
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 1: memoir was published, but as I read some quotes from

579
00:34:29,160 --> 00:34:31,680
Speaker 1: the memoir, I'm going to amend the quotes to reflect that.

580
00:34:32,560 --> 00:34:35,200
Speaker 1: So Lena writes about trying to get her younger sibling

581
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 1: to kiss her on the mouth and lay on top

582
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,280
Speaker 1: of her. As Cyrus Grace grew, I took to bribing

583
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,360
Speaker 1: them for time and affection. One dollar in quarters, if

584
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 1: I could do their makeup like a motorcycle check, three

585
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:47,480
Speaker 1: pieces of candy. If I could kiss them on the

586
00:34:47,480 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: lips for five seconds, whatever they wanted to watch on TV.

587
00:34:50,640 --> 00:34:53,840
Speaker 1: If they would just relax on me, basically anything a

588
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 1: sexual predator might do to woo a small suburban girl

589
00:34:57,239 --> 00:35:00,799
Speaker 1: I was trying. The memoir also includes this passage Do

590
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: we all have uterus? Is? I asked my mother when

591
00:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,000
Speaker 1: I was seven. Yes, she told me. We're born with

592
00:35:06,080 --> 00:35:08,600
Speaker 1: them and with all of our eggs, but they start

593
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: out very small, and they aren't ready to make babies

594
00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:13,680
Speaker 1: until we're older. I look at I look at my

595
00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,600
Speaker 1: Cyrus Grace, now a slim, tough one year old, and

596
00:35:16,680 --> 00:35:19,920
Speaker 1: at their tiny belly. I imagine eggs inside of them,

597
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:22,480
Speaker 1: like the sack of spider eggs in Charlotte's Web, and

598
00:35:22,520 --> 00:35:25,640
Speaker 1: their uterus the size of a thimble. Does their vagina

599
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:29,160
Speaker 1: look like mine? I guess so, my mother said, just smaller.

600
00:35:29,480 --> 00:35:31,360
Speaker 1: One day, as I sat out on our driveway in

601
00:35:31,400 --> 00:35:34,680
Speaker 1: Long Island, playing with blocks and buckets, my curiosity got

602
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:38,040
Speaker 1: the best of me. Cyrus Grace was sitting up, babbling

603
00:35:38,040 --> 00:35:40,920
Speaker 1: and smiling, and I leaned down between them. And I

604
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 1: leaned down between their legs and carefully spread open their vagina.

605
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,960
Speaker 1: They didn't resist, and when I saw what was inside,

606
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:51,360
Speaker 1: I shrieked. My mother came running, Mama, Mama, Cyrus Grace

607
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,799
Speaker 1: has something in there. My mother didn't bother asking why

608
00:35:54,840 --> 00:35:58,000
Speaker 1: I had opened cyrus graces vagina. This was within the

609
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,680
Speaker 1: spectrum of things that I did. She just got on

610
00:36:00,680 --> 00:36:03,760
Speaker 1: her knees and looked for herself. It quickly became apparent

611
00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:06,680
Speaker 1: that Cyrus Grace had stopped six or seven pebbles in there.

612
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:11,040
Speaker 1: My mother removed them patiently, while Cyrus Grace cackled, thrilled

613
00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,360
Speaker 1: that their prank had been a success. So the book

614
00:36:14,520 --> 00:36:20,280
Speaker 1: actually does contain content that involves her describing these sexual

615
00:36:20,320 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 1: situations with their with their sibling. That is true, but

616
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,440
Speaker 1: she writes about doing this at age seven with her

617
00:36:27,480 --> 00:36:32,319
Speaker 1: sibling who was aged one. On October, about a month

618
00:36:32,360 --> 00:36:35,319
Speaker 1: after her book could come out, Truth Revolt published the

619
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:37,840
Speaker 1: passage that I just read about the Pebbles and the

620
00:36:37,880 --> 00:36:43,000
Speaker 1: Vagina under the headline Lena Dunham described sexually abusing her

621
00:36:43,040 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 1: little sibling. Now, as Box points out, Truth Revolt did

622
00:36:46,880 --> 00:36:50,279
Speaker 1: two very misleading things in their post, calling Donham a

623
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,360
Speaker 1: sexual abuser. One, they really keyed in on this phrase

624
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,520
Speaker 1: they didn't resist, which obviously becomes a lot more loaded

625
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:02,439
Speaker 1: when paired with the headline about sexually abusing her sibling. Two,

626
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: and this is really important. Truth Revolt article originally stated

627
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:10,800
Speaker 1: that Dunham was seventeen at the time, when Dunham and

628
00:37:10,920 --> 00:37:14,560
Speaker 1: Actuality said that she was seven. So obviously, if you

629
00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 1: have a seventeen year old describing these kinds of interactions

630
00:37:17,760 --> 00:37:20,360
Speaker 1: with a one year old, it is a very different

631
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,560
Speaker 1: situation than if you have a seven year old, which

632
00:37:23,560 --> 00:37:26,720
Speaker 1: she actually says was her age doing them with someone

633
00:37:26,800 --> 00:37:31,359
Speaker 1: who is one. Yes, and seven are pretty different there,

634
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:35,719
Speaker 1: pretty different. So Truth Revolt eventually does say that it

635
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: was a typo. I guess that that's fine. Uh. The

636
00:37:40,840 --> 00:37:43,279
Speaker 1: story is then linked to by the Drudge Report, which

637
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:44,759
Speaker 1: if you don't know what that is because you're not

638
00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: older like myself. Uh. It's basically a right wing news

639
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,759
Speaker 1: aggregator that can really blow up stories. It was the

640
00:37:51,760 --> 00:37:54,760
Speaker 1: first place to publish the Bill Clinton scandal involving intern

641
00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:58,880
Speaker 1: Monica Lewinsky. Back. Once it's picked up by the Drudge Report,

642
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 1: the story gets a one more traction. It makes the

643
00:38:01,920 --> 00:38:04,239
Speaker 1: rounds on you know, truth for both it's kind of

644
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 1: a niche site. It makes the rounds on the wider

645
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: right wing blog and info sphere, and much bigger right

646
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,440
Speaker 1: wing outlets begin to pick it up. The National Reviews

647
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 1: Kevin Williamston, for instance, declared there is no non horrific

648
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:21,600
Speaker 1: interpretation of this episode, and The Daily Caller, another conservative outlet,

649
00:38:21,680 --> 00:38:25,840
Speaker 1: rites Dunham had admitted to the quote gleeful sexual abuse

650
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:30,080
Speaker 1: of her infant sibling. Now that is initially really what

651
00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:35,560
Speaker 1: seated the whole Lena Dunham sexually abused her sibling narrative.

652
00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:40,960
Speaker 1: And now it's out in the wider right wing blogosphere infosphere,

653
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,239
Speaker 1: and now it is a thing. It's so selacious it

654
00:38:46,239 --> 00:38:50,600
Speaker 1: almost feels like Taylor made for these kind of right

655
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 1: wing outrage aggregators. I mean, that is such a commonality

656
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 1: of disinformation, and it's something that I have to remember

657
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 1: myself quite a it. It's not just folks on the right.

658
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:06,080
Speaker 1: I'm speaking about everybody. Myself very much included that when

659
00:39:06,120 --> 00:39:11,120
Speaker 1: you have these stories that seem almost tailor made to

660
00:39:11,239 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 1: trigger certain things inside you or or outrage you in

661
00:39:13,960 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 1: a certain kind of way, those are always stories that

662
00:39:16,280 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 1: you should be a little bit wary of because it's

663
00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:21,279
Speaker 1: no not a coincidence that they are hitting you in

664
00:39:21,280 --> 00:39:25,360
Speaker 1: this particular way. Yeah, right, And you've mentioned that, guests

665
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:28,160
Speaker 1: have mentioned that on the show, talking about ways that

666
00:39:28,239 --> 00:39:33,400
Speaker 1: combat is information, Like when you're feeling that emotional reaction,

667
00:39:33,520 --> 00:39:36,960
Speaker 1: that should almost be a signal to like step back

668
00:39:38,160 --> 00:39:41,759
Speaker 1: and evaluate, like who is writing this? Where am I

669
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:45,480
Speaker 1: reading this? Is this something that I want to share exactly?

670
00:39:45,520 --> 00:39:47,120
Speaker 1: And that's one of the elements about this that I

671
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:51,120
Speaker 1: find so fascinating is how obviously, if you are Ben

672
00:39:51,160 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 1: Shapiro or a right winger who has endured the last

673
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,560
Speaker 1: few years where it seems like progressivism and diversity and

674
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,960
Speaker 1: feminism and sexuality, you're all things that are becoming more

675
00:40:02,000 --> 00:40:04,840
Speaker 1: and more salient, and you're feeling less and less in

676
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:07,239
Speaker 1: control and less and less relevant and these things are

677
00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:10,080
Speaker 1: becoming more and more relevant. I can see why that

678
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,560
Speaker 1: would prime somebody who is a right winger who feels

679
00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:16,800
Speaker 1: kind of threatened by this. I could see how that

680
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: would prime them to believe and amplify and spread this

681
00:40:20,680 --> 00:40:25,200
Speaker 1: particularly damaging lie about Lena Dunham. However, what I find

682
00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:28,319
Speaker 1: so fascinating about this is the way that didn't just

683
00:40:28,360 --> 00:40:32,080
Speaker 1: stay in right wing circles. It made the rounds and

684
00:40:32,440 --> 00:40:35,480
Speaker 1: it's still persists today. And so I think, you know,

685
00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: this might be a good place to take a little

686
00:40:37,600 --> 00:40:41,200
Speaker 1: break and will continue this conversation in the next episode.

687
00:40:41,400 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 1: So next week we'll get into lena inter siblings response

688
00:40:44,719 --> 00:40:48,000
Speaker 1: and why this particular claim got such traction and was

689
00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:50,920
Speaker 1: so sticky with so many people, not just the right

690
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:58,719
Speaker 1: wing online spaces where it started. Got a story about

691
00:40:58,719 --> 00:41:00,719
Speaker 1: an interesting thing in tech. Just want to say Hi.

692
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 1: You can reach us at Hello at tang godi dot com.

693
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: You can also find transcripts for today's episode at tang

694
00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:07,880
Speaker 1: godi dot com. There Are No Girls on the Internet

695
00:41:07,960 --> 00:41:10,319
Speaker 1: was created by me Bridget tod It's a production of

696
00:41:10,360 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and Unboss creative Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer.

697
00:41:14,440 --> 00:41:17,640
Speaker 1: Terry Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almato

698
00:41:17,719 --> 00:41:21,239
Speaker 1: is our contributing producer. I'm your host, bridget Todd. If

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00:41:21,239 --> 00:41:22,960
Speaker 1: you want to help us grow, rate and review us

700
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:26,200
Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts. For more podcast from My Heart Radio,

701
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 1: check out the iHeart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever

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00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:29,600
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts