WEBVTT - It Could Happen Here Weekly 189 0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:03.080 Cool media. 0:00:03.320 --> 0:00:05.760 Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let 0:00:05.800 --> 0:00:09.440 you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode 0:00:09.560 --> 0:00:12.719 of the week that just happened is here in one 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:16.560 convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to 0:00:16.600 --> 0:00:19.040 listen to in a long stretch if you want. If 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:21.000 you've been listening to the episodes every day this week, 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:22.759 there's going to be nothing new here for you, but 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:24.480 you can make your own decisions. 0:00:27.520 --> 0:00:29.960 Welcome it could happen here. A podcast that is in 0:00:30.000 --> 0:00:33.279 many cases about organizing. I AnGR host MEA Wong and 0:00:33.440 --> 0:00:35.800 with me is one of the most experienced organizers I know, 0:00:35.840 --> 0:00:36.640 Margaret Kiljoy. 0:00:36.880 --> 0:00:42.479 Oh no, hi, I'm a little out of practice, but 0:00:42.560 --> 0:00:43.480 I have done it a lot. 0:00:43.920 --> 0:00:47.040 You know, Margaret says this and also has been doing 0:00:47.080 --> 0:00:50.720 shit for like one bazillion years. This is and I 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:53.440 will say this, the sign of you that you are 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:55.680 running into a good organizer is when you talk to 0:00:55.680 --> 0:00:58.560 them about their organizing and they immediately start downplaying it. 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.800 That's when you know you haven't captured a good organizer. 0:01:02.080 --> 0:01:04.679 If they started immediately going, I'm the best fucking organizer 0:01:04.720 --> 0:01:07.800 in the world. Run like hell, this is an asshole 0:01:07.920 --> 0:01:11.400 who sucks. Somebody's like, ah, like I did this a 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:13.520 million years ago, I'm not good at it. Yeah it 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:17.320 did matter, blah blah blah blah. Very good organizer, thank you. Yeah. 0:01:17.520 --> 0:01:19.280 I remember once I went to a thing wait that 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.040 was put on and there was this, uh they were 0:01:21.080 --> 0:01:23.600 kind of turfy people who are coming through and we 0:01:23.680 --> 0:01:26.640 didn't totally know that right away, and their their pitch 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:29.240 about why they were such a good experienced organizers, as 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:31.119 one of them was like, and this person has been 0:01:31.480 --> 0:01:38.360 organizing for more than three years, and it was just like, Okay, 0:01:38.920 --> 0:01:41.479 every person you are giving this talk to has done 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:43.600 this for at least three times as. 0:01:43.480 --> 0:01:44.040 Long as that. 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:47.880 And don't get me wrong, if you're listening and you've 0:01:47.880 --> 0:01:49.920 been organizing for three years, you've learned a lot. 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:51.880 I'm not trying to tell you you're a bad organizer. 0:01:51.920 --> 0:01:53.760 You might be a better organizer and someone's been doing 0:01:53.800 --> 0:01:56.520 it longer, but don't use that as your selling point. 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:01.720 Oh anyway, that's very funny. Yeah, So okay, this episode, 0:02:01.600 --> 0:02:04.800 we are asking you a very very important question. Okay, 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.280 you want to change something about the world. I don't 0:02:07.320 --> 0:02:09.160 know what that thing is that is up that is 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:11.639 for you to determine the question that you need to 0:02:11.680 --> 0:02:14.080 be asking is are you organizing because you want to 0:02:14.080 --> 0:02:16.440 feel cool? Or are you organizing because you want whatever 0:02:16.480 --> 0:02:19.000 you're doing to fucking work? And if you want you're 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.360 organizing to work, literally no matter what it is, you 0:02:22.400 --> 0:02:24.280 actually need to listen to this episode and you need 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:26.320 to have some rudimental knowledge of the thing we are 0:02:26.320 --> 0:02:29.040 about to talk about, because if you do not, your 0:02:29.160 --> 0:02:32.760 organizing will fail. If you cannot do this, the thing 0:02:32.760 --> 0:02:34.320 we're going to talk about in this episode, if you 0:02:34.320 --> 0:02:37.000 cannot do this, everything else you know, all of your experience, 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:39.000 all of your knowledge, all of your passion, all of 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:43.200 it is fucking useless because the actual work of organizing 0:02:43.800 --> 0:02:47.000 is incredibly unglamorous. It is un sexy, a lot of 0:02:47.040 --> 0:02:49.880 it is very time consuming, a lot of it is 0:02:50.000 --> 0:02:54.120 not cool. It is you sitting there and talking to 0:02:54.160 --> 0:02:56.960 a bunch of people. Yeah, And if you want your 0:02:56.960 --> 0:02:59.400 movement to succeed, you have to be able to do 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:02.960 this kind of like groundwork, logistical work, because if you don't, 0:03:03.040 --> 0:03:05.639 it won't work. So what we are going to teach 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.160 you the very very very very basics of in this 0:03:08.280 --> 0:03:12.040 episode is a social technology that has been developed over 0:03:12.080 --> 0:03:15.840 the course of literal centuries of movements. Right, this is 0:03:16.440 --> 0:03:19.920 something that has been passed down and refined, like through 0:03:19.960 --> 0:03:22.480 generations and generations of organizers. I mean, I could do 0:03:22.520 --> 0:03:25.240 a genealogy of this. A lot of the modern stuff 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:27.600 sort of came through the Quakers, moved through the civil 0:03:27.680 --> 0:03:30.200 rights movements, moved through the anti war movements, moved through 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.600 like in Vietnam, moved to a whole bunch of other movements. 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:35.640 Like to be passed out to you today, this is 0:03:35.760 --> 0:03:39.160 a complicated social technology. It does not sound complicated. If 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:42.120 you do not know how to do this, it is 0:03:42.280 --> 0:03:45.720 impossible to try to replicate on the fly. And that 0:03:45.840 --> 0:03:47.280 is we are going to explain to you the very 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:50.320 basis of how to run a meeting. Yeah. 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:53.080 I really like this way of phrasing it, that it's 0:03:52.760 --> 0:03:56.240 a technology, Like it's a way of applying ideas to 0:03:56.240 --> 0:03:59.360 get something to happen, even if a lot of it 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:03.240 is instead there is an art to it, but like, yeah, no, 0:04:03.280 --> 0:04:06.120 there's there's stuff you can like learn and apply and 0:04:06.160 --> 0:04:08.680 it's Yeah, technology is a good way of framing it. 0:04:09.040 --> 0:04:11.360 Yeah, And it's one of these things where you know 0:04:11.920 --> 0:04:14.560 you can kind of if you don't know how to 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:16.719 do this, and you have people you can kind of 0:04:17.000 --> 0:04:20.680 sort of maybe approximate something that is a little bit functional, 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:23.160 and the moment it runs into a stress point, it 0:04:23.200 --> 0:04:26.440 will collapse completely. And this is a thing that like, 0:04:27.240 --> 0:04:29.640 you know, I have talked to I have done a 0:04:29.640 --> 0:04:31.080 lot of these. I have talked to a lot of 0:04:31.120 --> 0:04:33.120 people who've done this. I have like I have been 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:34.640 in a rooms of people knew how to run meetings. 0:04:34.680 --> 0:04:36.280 I've been in rooms people didn't know how to run meetings. 0:04:36.360 --> 0:04:37.919 I have talked with a bunch of people who have 0:04:37.960 --> 0:04:39.520 been in rooms who don't know how to run meetings, 0:04:39.560 --> 0:04:43.440 and like there are rooms of people with collectively hundreds 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:45.919 of PhDs and because nobody in the room knew how 0:04:45.960 --> 0:04:49.640 to fucking run a meeting, complete disaster there. Organizing didn't work. Yeah, right, 0:04:50.400 --> 0:04:53.440 you have to be able to do this, And it 0:04:53.440 --> 0:04:55.960 doesn't really matter. You know, we're not gonna get that 0:04:56.200 --> 0:04:59.839 much into like what mechanism are using to make decisions 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:02.400 because this is this is like even like a layer 0:05:02.440 --> 0:05:04.880 below that and so this is not that you can 0:05:04.960 --> 0:05:07.200 use it, you know, regardless of whether you're doing consensus 0:05:07.279 --> 0:05:09.159 and like, you know, like and I think that like 0:05:09.200 --> 0:05:11.080 if you're trying to make a decision as a group, right, 0:05:11.440 --> 0:05:13.080 and you're trying to get everyone to want to do 0:05:13.120 --> 0:05:14.919 the thing and do it. I think that some version 0:05:14.920 --> 0:05:17.680 of consensus is a good idea. But this can be 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:19.120 for a sort of just like a you know, like 0:05:19.160 --> 0:05:22.440 a majority of world democratic process, whatever process you were 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:26.599 using to decide things. You need some kind of structure 0:05:26.640 --> 0:05:30.000 thing there. Otherwise it's just not going to function, Like 0:05:30.040 --> 0:05:32.040 none of it will. What's wild to me is that 0:05:32.080 --> 0:05:34.080 it's almost like the important thing is that there is 0:05:34.400 --> 0:05:37.560 a structure. There's so many different structures you can use. 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:39.760 Like when we come at this, I don't actually know. 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:42.040 I'm the podcast idiot on this episode, and me is 0:05:42.040 --> 0:05:44.240 going to explain some to me. But like there's a 0:05:44.240 --> 0:05:47.080 lot of different ways to do this, and the important way, 0:05:47.200 --> 0:05:49.320 the important thing is is that you do one of them. 0:05:49.720 --> 0:05:52.680 Like there are ways that I think are better or worse, right, 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:56.200 but you do actually need to create a structure and 0:05:56.279 --> 0:05:58.560 move forward with that structure in order to get anything done, 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.039 which is the whole secret of all organizing. Like that 0:06:01.160 --> 0:06:03.280 is what organizing is is you actually have to say, 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:05.359 not only do I want something to get done, but 0:06:05.400 --> 0:06:07.680 I'm going to figure out the steps by which to 0:06:07.680 --> 0:06:10.919 get that done. And it also applies to meetings. Yeah yeah, 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.920 and like that kind of undergirting thing of figuring out 0:06:13.960 --> 0:06:17.080 how how you're going to do it, right, like that 0:06:17.080 --> 0:06:19.480 that's the part of organizing that as you're saying, it's 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:22.159 like nothing works without it, because it is like half 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:24.719 of what organizing is. And otherwise you were just saying 0:06:24.800 --> 0:06:28.000 things into the wind. And admittedly my job is to 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:29.839 say things into the wind, so I hope you do 0:06:29.920 --> 0:06:31.960 it so like, you know, I have a little bit 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.560 of respect to that. But also you need to have 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:36.680 some way of getting other people to do things. 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:39.400 Yeah, it's like a when you sit around with your 0:06:39.400 --> 0:06:42.040 friends and like, oh, someone should do this. No one's 0:06:42.040 --> 0:06:44.839 actually named someone. Yeah you know, I mean somewhere, there's 0:06:44.839 --> 0:06:46.000 a non binary person. 0:06:45.920 --> 0:06:48.039 Somewhere, but shout outs to someone. 0:06:48.200 --> 0:06:51.360 Yeah yeah, if you're listening to someone, congratulations you're a 0:06:51.400 --> 0:06:52.359 master level troll. 0:06:52.680 --> 0:06:56.120 But like my friend, don't ask their name was don't ask. 0:06:56.240 --> 0:07:01.480 It's great anyway, whatever, but but someone needs to get 0:07:01.520 --> 0:07:03.880 something done. And if you leave a thing being like ah, 0:07:03.920 --> 0:07:07.320 someone should do this, you didn't organize. You have to say, yeah, 0:07:07.360 --> 0:07:09.520 this is what the following people are doing. 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:10.360 Yep. 0:07:10.520 --> 0:07:12.760 Also shout out also to everyone who has been in 0:07:12.800 --> 0:07:17.000 meetians with me and are like Mark, I'm insufferable in meetings. 0:07:17.160 --> 0:07:20.560 I try really hard, but anyway, whatever. 0:07:23.000 --> 0:07:25.920 Oh god, okay, okay. So this largely is going to 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:27.480 be like how to run a meeting? What a one. 0:07:27.960 --> 0:07:30.960 We're going to start at like zero zero zero, which 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:33.640 is you need a place to meet, and that place 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:36.720 to meet has to be accessible to everyone who's trying 0:07:36.720 --> 0:07:38.760 to go to the meeting. This is a thing that 0:07:38.800 --> 0:07:41.280 people screw up a lot. It is not that hard 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:43.120 to find the place as accessible for everyone to go. 0:07:43.920 --> 0:07:45.600 You can do this. There are lots of places you 0:07:45.640 --> 0:07:48.640 can have meetings, depending on how sensitive the meeting is, 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:52.200 you know, how formal and formal it is. I've done 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:55.440 meetings and restaurants and meetings and bars of them in libraries, 0:07:55.520 --> 0:07:59.760 people use churches sometimes like queer centers, union halls, parks. 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:01.760 I want to shit talk bars really quickly. 0:08:02.080 --> 0:08:02.280 Yeah. 0:08:02.280 --> 0:08:04.280 I don't think bars is a great idea, but. 0:08:04.600 --> 0:08:06.480 I don't think it's accessible to people who are under 0:08:06.480 --> 0:08:08.280 twenty one, and I don't think it's accessible to people 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:10.760 who have problems being around drinking. 0:08:11.040 --> 0:08:12.640 That said they happen there. 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:14.320 And I'm not trying to say you're bad for having 0:08:14.360 --> 0:08:16.680 had meetings there, but I just want to say that. 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:19.000 Yeah, Bars is one that like people go to a 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.239 lot and like, yeah, there's definitely issues with it, right, 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.520 But I don't know, like you can have them people's houses. Yeah, 0:08:24.640 --> 0:08:30.120 sometimes you can like go into like a mesa or whatever. 0:08:30.600 --> 0:08:32.640 You can go have a meeting there. You can get 0:08:32.640 --> 0:08:34.679 people to just like go out somewhere and do it. 0:08:35.360 --> 0:08:37.400 You know, I don't know, like you you are capable 0:08:37.440 --> 0:08:39.240 of thinking of lots of places where you could have meetings, 0:08:39.280 --> 0:08:41.520 but you actually do need to have a location. And 0:08:41.559 --> 0:08:43.360 this is actually again I've talked about this before, but 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:45.360 it's like one of the organizing things is actually really important, 0:08:45.440 --> 0:08:48.360 is like knowing how to get a room for a 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.640 meeting or get it room for something to happen. You 0:08:50.679 --> 0:08:52.760 have to be able to do this. This is like 0:08:52.880 --> 0:08:56.040 zero o zero, like okay, you know, okay, so you've 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:58.760 now achieved this, and congratulations, you clowns have now achieved 0:08:58.760 --> 0:09:02.600 a location. I'm going to stick a provisional thing in here, 0:09:03.320 --> 0:09:06.640 which is this has jumping the gun a little bit, 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:08.520 but I need to put in here. Do not use 0:09:08.600 --> 0:09:12.760 Robert rules of Order. One of the things you will 0:09:12.800 --> 0:09:16.440 be told, and if you have been in organizations before, 0:09:16.559 --> 0:09:18.199 a lot of them use the thing called Robert Tools 0:09:18.240 --> 0:09:22.400 of Orders, which is this old, like incredibly elaborate set 0:09:22.400 --> 0:09:26.959 of parliamentary procedures. Do not use them. They suck. And 0:09:27.320 --> 0:09:29.280 this gets into before we can even talk about what 0:09:29.360 --> 0:09:32.360 a meeting is right and how you do it. You 0:09:32.480 --> 0:09:34.960 really really do not want your meetings to get bogged 0:09:34.960 --> 0:09:38.480 down in everyone having to learn one million lines of 0:09:38.520 --> 0:09:43.600 parliamentary procedure. And this is a problem for any meeting 0:09:43.640 --> 0:09:47.320 technology that you use, because they all do involve a 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.480 little bit of technical stuff because you have to get 0:09:49.520 --> 0:09:52.360 people to be able to do things. But one thing 0:09:52.440 --> 0:09:54.920 with Robert rules of Order is that like it's like 0:09:55.040 --> 0:09:58.760 hundreds of pages, right, and in those hundreds of pages 0:09:58.840 --> 0:10:03.040 are the recipe for one asshole to derail your entire 0:10:03.120 --> 0:10:06.600 meeting by doing a whole bunch of unhinged parliamentary shit. 0:10:06.640 --> 0:10:09.520 I have seen this happen. It sucks. This is something 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:13.640 that you can technically do in any meeting structure, but 0:10:13.960 --> 0:10:16.720 the mora paque, the rules of the meeting are the 0:10:16.760 --> 0:10:19.080 easier the shit is to do, and the harder it 0:10:19.120 --> 0:10:20.640 is to be like please stop. 0:10:20.880 --> 0:10:22.640 Yeah, there's you have to have a certain amount of 0:10:22.640 --> 0:10:27.079 flexibility in the way that you do things. Because every system, 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:29.640 it's the problem with law as a concept, right, is 0:10:29.760 --> 0:10:33.880 every system can you can find loopholes. And anyone who's 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:36.920 been in a lot of meetings has seen people learn 0:10:36.960 --> 0:10:40.679 how to abuse the process in order to get their 0:10:40.679 --> 0:10:44.040 position to win by making everyone else too tired to continue, 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:46.520 or to use up all of the space in the room, 0:10:46.720 --> 0:10:50.160 or you know whatever. But I think that, yeah, this 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:53.680 idea that the rules that are used in your meeting, 0:10:54.320 --> 0:10:56.920 I think that a very a good facilitator, which is. 0:10:56.920 --> 0:10:59.800 Something that I tend to believe in for meetings. 0:11:00.440 --> 0:11:04.480 Is capable of explaining the process in such a way 0:11:05.120 --> 0:11:07.600 that even when a lot of people come who are 0:11:07.600 --> 0:11:10.720 not familiar with the process, they will leave familiar with 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:11.360 the process. 0:11:11.920 --> 0:11:14.640 Yeah. Yeah, Like to that sort of end, if you 0:11:14.760 --> 0:11:18.720 need a like, okay, we need a written procedure thing, 0:11:19.360 --> 0:11:21.720 the thing I would recommend is called Rusty's Rules of Order, 0:11:21.760 --> 0:11:26.600 which is an unbelievably paired down version of Roberts Rules 0:11:26.640 --> 0:11:28.920 of Order that was like specifically developed to be used 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.320 in like union circles in activist circles, and it's like 0:11:34.000 --> 0:11:36.560 the total PDF of it is twenty five pages. That 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:38.760 makes it sound way longer than it actually is. Like 0:11:38.800 --> 0:11:41.480 several of those pages are like a glossary, and like 0:11:41.679 --> 0:11:43.839 the cover, it's very easy to read. It's easy to 0:11:43.880 --> 0:11:47.160 understand if you have to use a like this is 0:11:47.200 --> 0:11:50.800 a formalized procedure. Do rusties, don't do Roberts. This is 0:11:50.960 --> 0:11:52.480 just a I need to do this before we say 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:53.920 anything else because a bunch of people are going to 0:11:53.960 --> 0:11:57.160 push you to use this and it sucks. So having 0:11:57.160 --> 0:11:58.640 gotten that out of the way, we can now get 0:11:58.679 --> 0:12:01.280 into okay things from meetings. 0:12:02.000 --> 0:12:03.560 I was supposed to make a joke about at the 0:12:03.600 --> 0:12:06.000 top of all this. I'm sorry everyone. Everyone has been 0:12:06.040 --> 0:12:08.440 waiting for me to make this joke. I'm certain, but Mia, 0:12:08.520 --> 0:12:10.280 which one of us is going to keep stacked during 0:12:10.320 --> 0:12:12.360 this meeting so that we know who can. 0:12:12.200 --> 0:12:15.480 Talk products and services support this podcast? Are gonna keep 0:12:15.559 --> 0:12:17.600 stack and we're gonna go to the right the funt. 0:12:17.600 --> 0:12:30.440 Now we are. 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:33.679 Back, and I really just want to say, as timekeeper, 0:12:33.760 --> 0:12:36.360 I'm a little bit upset about how much time that 0:12:36.440 --> 0:12:39.920 those ads used during the meeting and if we can. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:45.679 Not fucking damn Okay, we will explain what a stack 0:12:45.760 --> 0:12:49.280 is and sorry it is in a second. However, COMMA, 0:12:49.960 --> 0:12:52.560 So things you need to do at the very short 0:12:52.600 --> 0:12:54.840 of a meeting. You need to take like two minutes 0:12:54.880 --> 0:12:57.080 to do this, but you need to explain how the 0:12:57.120 --> 0:13:00.120 meeting fucking works, and you need to assign everyone rolls. 0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:02.920 And you can't assume that everyone who is going to 0:13:02.920 --> 0:13:06.480 be in this meeting understands how the rules work, like 0:13:06.520 --> 0:13:08.400 you cannot. And this is something I've run into, is 0:13:08.440 --> 0:13:10.559 like you can't assume that everyone understands what your hand 0:13:10.600 --> 0:13:13.640 signals are or even just basic like everyone has been 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.000 in a thing before and understands what a stack is, Right, 0:13:16.040 --> 0:13:19.160 you can't assume that unless you know everyone in the 0:13:19.240 --> 0:13:21.880 room and more than that, like unless you know everyone's 0:13:21.960 --> 0:13:23.240 level of experience in the room and you've been in 0:13:23.280 --> 0:13:26.080 meetings with them before, Like you can't assume the level 0:13:26.080 --> 0:13:28.600 of knowledge that everyone has. And I have watched these 0:13:28.640 --> 0:13:31.840 processes not work because people just did that and then 0:13:32.120 --> 0:13:33.240 a bunch of people in the room were like, what 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:35.679 the fuck is going on? So you need to at 0:13:35.679 --> 0:13:37.400 the start of the meeting explain how the meeting is 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:38.800 going to work like at least a little bit. It 0:13:38.840 --> 0:13:41.640 doesn't have to be super formal. This can be like 0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:43.560 fucking two minutes of like we're gonna have a stack 0:13:43.559 --> 0:13:44.720 blah blah blah blah blah. 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:46.199 And for anyone just say, you know what we're saying 0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:48.360 right now, we'll explain stack more. That is the order 0:13:48.400 --> 0:13:50.200 in which people talk. It is a way of like 0:13:50.280 --> 0:13:52.559 keeping track of the line of who's gonna talk when. 0:13:52.720 --> 0:13:55.560 Yeah, I'm realizing this explanation is jumping around a little bit. 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.440 But you need to make sure that everyone understands how 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:01.640 the meeting is supposed to work. And you know, usually 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:04.040 that's really quick. Sometimes someone will just not know something 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:05.840 and then okay, you explain it to them and that's 0:14:05.880 --> 0:14:08.760 like fine and chill, and like I don't know. I 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.000 remember being a little tiny baby anarchist and like not 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.320 knowing anything and going to my first meeting and like 0:14:14.040 --> 0:14:17.360 people were talking about restorative justice and I was like, Hi, 0:14:17.440 --> 0:14:20.800 what's your storative justice. I'm like a little tiny child, 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:23.200 I don't know anything. And they explained it and it 0:14:23.240 --> 0:14:24.600 was like chill and good and you can just do 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:28.360 this and it helps people feel included and yeah, totally okay. 0:14:28.880 --> 0:14:33.040 So general meeting facilitation things you need. You need one 0:14:33.520 --> 0:14:36.720 an agenda. An agenda is what the fuck are you doing? 0:14:38.200 --> 0:14:41.320 And generally speaking, secondarily, you want to try to have 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:43.600 time planned out because one of the failure modes of 0:14:43.600 --> 0:14:45.640 a meeting is the meeting goes for fucking thirty hours 0:14:45.640 --> 0:14:48.440 and everyone's miserable. So you generally want to have an 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.280 agenda that has what you're going to talk about and 0:14:50.280 --> 0:14:54.160 then kind of guidelines roughly for how long you think 0:14:54.160 --> 0:14:55.320 it'll take to talk about the thing. 0:14:55.520 --> 0:14:55.920 Mm hmm. 0:14:56.400 --> 0:14:59.200 We'll get more into that in a second. Sometimes people 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:02.360 create the agenda of beforehand. Sometimes you start you set 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:03.880 the agenda at the beginning of the meeting. But like 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:06.400 you do want an agenda so people know what you're doing. 0:15:06.360 --> 0:15:08.560 And it should be similar that everyone can see a 0:15:08.840 --> 0:15:12.720 whiteboard or like I guess in a zoom meeting notes 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:14.080 or a dock that everyone has open. 0:15:14.600 --> 0:15:17.640 Yeah, yeah, you want to make sure everyone has it. Okay, 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:19.080 and this this is the point where we need to 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:22.320 talk about roles. So part of the technology for this 0:15:22.520 --> 0:15:24.520 right and the stack is a big piece of technology 0:15:24.560 --> 0:15:26.280 to keep track of who's talking. But a big part 0:15:26.280 --> 0:15:31.200 of what the technology of this is is a bunch 0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:34.720 of roles that you assign people and that ideally everyone 0:15:34.800 --> 0:15:36.920 rotates through so you learn how to do all of them, 0:15:37.280 --> 0:15:39.640 and so to prevent people from sort of concentrating power 0:15:39.680 --> 0:15:43.800 by like monopolizing one role. So the first role we 0:15:43.840 --> 0:15:46.320 need to talk about, and this is I don't know 0:15:46.320 --> 0:15:48.120 if the big one is the right one, but this 0:15:48.200 --> 0:15:50.400 is the one that I think people know kind of 0:15:50.840 --> 0:15:53.440 I don't know if intuitively understand is the right word, 0:15:53.440 --> 0:15:55.600 but like this is the one that there are usually 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:57.800 versions of in a meeting, and a lot of those 0:15:57.840 --> 0:16:01.640 versions are bad. Is a facilitator? Yeah, so okay my 0:16:02.080 --> 0:16:04.200 explanation of what a facilitator is, and Margot, I'm going 0:16:04.240 --> 0:16:07.880 to ask you for yours too, because I don't know. So, 0:16:08.000 --> 0:16:10.520 as a facilitator, your job is to like point to 0:16:10.560 --> 0:16:13.480 the agenda and go, okay, we're talking about this. Your 0:16:13.560 --> 0:16:15.720 job is to move people through discussions. Your job is 0:16:15.720 --> 0:16:17.600 to try to get people to a consensus on what 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:20.920 you're doing, and your job is to stop people from 0:16:20.960 --> 0:16:24.240 giving speeches. And this is I'm gonna take a little 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.800 digrestuona here, which is, Okay, we've been talking about Way's 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:30.360 meetings fail right. Number One, no one can go to it. 0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:34.880 That's way meeting fails. Two, you don't have an agenda 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:37.600 and everyone it just goes off the rails and no 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:39.840 one has any idea what you're supposed to be meeting about. Three, 0:16:39.920 --> 0:16:42.640 and this is a huge one, is that one of 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:44.520 the biggest ways of meetings fail. And I have seen 0:16:44.560 --> 0:16:47.760 this in every single context I've ever worked in, is 0:16:47.760 --> 0:16:51.360 that someone and it is usually a dude. It's almost 0:16:51.360 --> 0:16:53.160 always a dude. It cannot be a dude, but it's 0:16:53.240 --> 0:16:56.520 usually a dude just keeps talking and keeps talking and 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:58.760 keeps talking and will not shut the fuck up, and 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.000 nothing gets done because the entire meeting is one hour 0:17:01.040 --> 0:17:04.400 of this guy just yabbering. Yep. And one of your 0:17:04.440 --> 0:17:08.840 most important jobs as the facilitator, and this is genuinely 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:11.919 a huge part for social technology of the structure of 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.840 meetings is to make sure that your meeting is not 0:17:13.920 --> 0:17:19.320 one person talking. Yeah. This is why this exists. Yeah. 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:20.600 And you know, if you want to get into the 0:17:21.200 --> 0:17:23.440 sort of dire part of this, right, if you do 0:17:23.520 --> 0:17:26.960 not stop all of your meetings from being one annoying 0:17:27.000 --> 0:17:30.720 guy talking, your projects will fail. You must do this. 0:17:30.720 --> 0:17:33.360 This is the one thing here that is like, you absolutely, 0:17:33.800 --> 0:17:36.760 positively must get this guy to stop talking. 0:17:37.320 --> 0:17:39.359 I think that the important thing to think about a 0:17:39.359 --> 0:17:43.520 facilitator is that most people come from a background of 0:17:43.840 --> 0:17:48.959 assumed authoritarian politics. Yeah, assumed politics where someone is in charge. 0:17:49.359 --> 0:17:53.000 Even our democracies are built around this idea that you 0:17:53.080 --> 0:17:56.360 elect someone to tell you what to do. When we 0:17:56.400 --> 0:17:59.600 talk about meetings, we are talking about building bottom up structures, 0:18:00.000 --> 0:18:01.960 and we later I think, will end up talking maybe 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.840 a different episode or something about larger structures you can 0:18:04.880 --> 0:18:07.280 build up out of these sort of local assemblies or meetings. 0:18:08.000 --> 0:18:11.560 The idea is that everyone is empowered. And so because 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.400 we're really used to this competitive decision making around who 0:18:15.520 --> 0:18:19.040 is in charge, we struggle a little bit adapting to 0:18:19.080 --> 0:18:23.600 egalitarian meetings and also to consensus. Isn't the only way 0:18:23.640 --> 0:18:26.240 to make decisions, but people struggle with consensus because they'll 0:18:26.240 --> 0:18:29.280 think of that at meaning one hundred percent vote where 0:18:29.280 --> 0:18:31.640 everyone votes for the same thing, and that's a mistake. 0:18:32.280 --> 0:18:36.679 And so we think of the facilitator accidentally as the leader, 0:18:36.960 --> 0:18:38.920 and they are a leader in the sense. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:39.720 Of a whatever. 0:18:39.760 --> 0:18:41.240 You could use the word leader in a lot of ways, 0:18:41.240 --> 0:18:43.520 and some of them are positive and not authoritarian, and 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:46.280 so in that context they are leading people through the meeting, 0:18:46.720 --> 0:18:50.600 but they are absolutely not only not the decision maker, 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:54.080 they are less the decision maker than everyone else. Choosing 0:18:54.160 --> 0:18:56.840 to be a facilitator of a meeting is choosing to 0:18:56.920 --> 0:18:59.960 go in and say, I'm not actually even going to 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:03.000 push for my side unless you are in a like 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:06.000 tight knit enough group where everyone knows each other and 0:19:06.040 --> 0:19:09.040 everyone kind of knows. Oh, in this group, Margaret's opinion 0:19:09.080 --> 0:19:10.960 is always going to be this, and so and so's 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.760 opinions always gonna be this. If you know people really well, 0:19:14.440 --> 0:19:17.040 you can kind of still be both facilitator and a participant. 0:19:17.240 --> 0:19:20.320 But by and large, when you are the facilitator, your 0:19:20.560 --> 0:19:24.840 job is to help the decision form. It is to 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:29.120 help take what people are saying and say, Okay, this 0:19:29.160 --> 0:19:32.040 seems like what we're saying. Is this the Is this 0:19:32.200 --> 0:19:35.160 the proposal? And not say I think this is the proposal, 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:37.200 but say is this the proposal? 0:19:37.600 --> 0:19:37.960 And yeah? 0:19:37.960 --> 0:19:39.800 It is to keep people on track, and every meeting 0:19:39.840 --> 0:19:42.760 is going to have different I really like a strong facilitator. 0:19:43.600 --> 0:19:45.560 I really like someone who's going to shut me up. 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:48.439 I really like someone who's like, yeah, that's not what 0:19:48.480 --> 0:19:51.479 we're talking about right now. And it's hard because your 0:19:51.480 --> 0:19:54.520 feelings get hurt, like especially, for example, someone says a 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:56.879 joke and then someone else is a joke, and then 0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.080 you're the third person and you say the joke too, 0:19:59.119 --> 0:20:00.879 and the facilitator like, yeah, that's enough of that. We 0:20:00.920 --> 0:20:03.240 got to keep going. You're the third person who said 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:05.080 the joke, and you're like, why am I getting yelled 0:20:05.080 --> 0:20:07.640 at and the other two people didn't. Yeah, And that's 0:20:07.640 --> 0:20:09.320 the wrong way to look at it. We're not yelling 0:20:09.320 --> 0:20:12.040 at anyone. We're trying to keep things moving forward. And 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:16.399 you're absolutely right also about the people grandstanding. And you know, 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:20.760 a particular habit that men often have, especially since men, 0:20:21.160 --> 0:20:23.720 is that they'll come in and be like they'll listen 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.159 to what someone else says and then repeat it louder 0:20:26.520 --> 0:20:28.719 and then be like yeah, yeah, right, and as if 0:20:28.720 --> 0:20:31.359 it's their idea and they don't even realize they're doing it. 0:20:31.359 --> 0:20:34.040 It's kind of cute, but there's a lot of that 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:36.679 you can learn about yourself by going into these meetings 0:20:36.720 --> 0:20:38.720 and learning about your own habits and what you've been 0:20:39.119 --> 0:20:42.000 and culturated to do. And it shouldn't be about shaming 0:20:42.000 --> 0:20:43.960 people around this as long as people are able to 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.640 like kind of get called in and listen to it. 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:48.480 And one of the things that I think when you 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:51.240 teach the meeting, at the beginning of the meeting, you 0:20:51.359 --> 0:20:54.119 also explain some of this social stuff and you say, like, 0:20:54.359 --> 0:20:56.400 you know, we believe in a step up step back thing. 0:20:56.440 --> 0:20:59.720 If you're someone who generally feels comfortable talking in large groups, 0:21:00.200 --> 0:21:02.240 you to step back a little bit. And if you're 0:21:02.400 --> 0:21:05.520 not someone who generally feels comfortable expressing your opinion in groups, 0:21:05.560 --> 0:21:08.359 we invite you to step up. Do you know what 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.600 also needs to learn to step up? Is I actually 0:21:11.600 --> 0:21:14.800 think we don't get enough advertising in our lives. I 0:21:14.800 --> 0:21:16.800 think that the people who are afraid to take up 0:21:16.840 --> 0:21:19.160 space are the people who pay a lot of money 0:21:19.880 --> 0:21:27.480 block All right, babe, isn't consensus, here's ads. 0:21:37.680 --> 0:21:41.760 We are back. I think this is also you know, 0:21:41.960 --> 0:21:44.159 as we've talked about sort of in some way in 0:21:44.160 --> 0:21:45.639 a lot of ways, like how important the role the 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:48.760 facilitator is. This is a role you need to rotate 0:21:49.800 --> 0:21:52.800 because that is a role. It's like those are skills 0:21:52.840 --> 0:21:56.560 that everyone needs. Like if everyone knows did you just 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:57.960 do the I did? 0:21:58.280 --> 0:22:01.159 I did I don't know whether people still do it 0:22:01.200 --> 0:22:02.840 metal hands versus twinkle fingers. 0:22:04.160 --> 0:22:08.919 Sorry, okay, this is completely unfortunately podcasting is an audio medium. 0:22:08.920 --> 0:22:11.080 So all of you just missed me losing my mind 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:14.280 because Margaret, Margaret did one of my hand signs for agreement. 0:22:14.880 --> 0:22:17.000 It's like, shit, God damn it. 0:22:17.200 --> 0:22:20.480 Okay, we're talking about meetings that just came naturally. 0:22:20.760 --> 0:22:22.760 Well, we'll get the hand signes later, but like you know, 0:22:23.080 --> 0:22:25.800 you actually do you all of these things should be 0:22:25.880 --> 0:22:28.320 road hitting, and you should be teaching everyone to be 0:22:28.359 --> 0:22:31.920 able to do all of the facilitation roles because a okay, 0:22:31.920 --> 0:22:34.720 there's there's lots of reasons for this, right one. Facilitation 0:22:34.760 --> 0:22:39.080 in particular can be kind of dangerous because there's a 0:22:39.119 --> 0:22:43.360 real risk of someone who is facilitating deciding that they 0:22:43.359 --> 0:22:45.240 are the leader and they're going to steer how everything 0:22:45.280 --> 0:22:47.480 goes and there and they're going to make their decisions. 0:22:47.720 --> 0:22:50.000 And by rotating that around, it becomes a lot easier 0:22:50.080 --> 0:22:53.560 to not have that happen. Yeah, and also doing a 0:22:53.680 --> 0:22:55.960 role makes you a more active participant in the meeting. 0:22:56.040 --> 0:22:58.000 A lot of times it depends on the role obviously, 0:22:58.040 --> 0:22:59.440 but like it's a way to get people to keep 0:22:59.480 --> 0:23:01.960 everyone in gain the thing. That's a good point. Thank you. 0:23:02.000 --> 0:23:04.720 This is I stole this from my friend, who is 0:23:04.760 --> 0:23:07.679 going to remain nameless. But if you're out there, I 0:23:07.720 --> 0:23:10.600 love you. Your friend's name is nameless, I understand. Yeah, 0:23:10.680 --> 0:23:12.520 friend's name is the nameless child. 0:23:12.720 --> 0:23:17.040 To somewhere there's someone whose name is the whole lost 0:23:17.119 --> 0:23:20.160 kid and anyway whatever, anyway, okay. 0:23:20.240 --> 0:23:24.280 Okay, yeah. But the other thing about it, right is 0:23:24.320 --> 0:23:27.000 the more everyone knows about these skills, the more effective 0:23:27.040 --> 0:23:29.000 of a participant, and the more effective you can be 0:23:29.200 --> 0:23:31.760 making decisions in the meeting like that, the more everyone 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:33.720 understands how the process works and knows how to do 0:23:33.760 --> 0:23:36.879 it and knows how to because like being in a 0:23:36.920 --> 0:23:40.359 meeting and being in community with other people and making 0:23:40.359 --> 0:23:43.040 decisions together is a skill and we don't have it. 0:23:43.680 --> 0:23:46.080 There's this great David Graeber, the anthropologist David Graeber, who 0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.200 actually spent a lot of time like writing about these 0:23:49.240 --> 0:23:51.439 meetings in a way that doesn't usually happen, as like 0:23:51.480 --> 0:23:54.679 as as an anthropologist. Yeah yeah, as an anthropologist, right, 0:23:54.680 --> 0:23:56.960 because he was both both an activist and an anthropologist. 0:23:57.160 --> 0:23:59.960 And he has this great line where he says, American 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:02.800 they are great at communism and terrible at democracy, which 0:24:02.800 --> 0:24:05.480 is that they're really really good at like doing things 0:24:05.520 --> 0:24:07.919 each according to their need and from each according through ability. 0:24:07.960 --> 0:24:10.080 Like if you try to organize a barbecue, everyone can 0:24:10.119 --> 0:24:12.280 do the things to do the barbecue, but no one 0:24:12.320 --> 0:24:14.280 knows how to make decisions together, because that's a skill. 0:24:14.480 --> 0:24:14.960 Yeah. 0:24:15.000 --> 0:24:17.080 And the more you're rotating through all the roles and 0:24:17.080 --> 0:24:19.400 the more you understand how everything works, the more you understand, 0:24:19.440 --> 0:24:21.439 you know, how to do the facilitation stuff of like 0:24:22.520 --> 0:24:25.320 getting everyone to figure out what the thing that they 0:24:25.400 --> 0:24:27.480 want is and how to express that and how to 0:24:28.200 --> 0:24:31.520 like how to work together. The more you understand that 0:24:31.560 --> 0:24:34.399 as like a person who's not facilitating, the more you 0:24:34.400 --> 0:24:38.520 can understand like how to actually do democracy. Yeah, and 0:24:38.560 --> 0:24:39.160 it rules. 0:24:39.320 --> 0:24:41.680 And it's also the fact that like if you are 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:45.320 indispensable to your group, you've actually failed your group. Yeah, 0:24:45.400 --> 0:24:48.160 especially when you're talking about stuff like activism, that has 0:24:48.200 --> 0:24:51.359 a certain risk. If you are the only medic in 0:24:51.400 --> 0:24:54.280 your affinity group, that is a problem because if you 0:24:54.280 --> 0:24:56.600 get arrested, now there's no medic. If you're the only 0:24:56.640 --> 0:25:00.760 facilitator who is a very skilled facilitator. Happens when you're 0:25:00.800 --> 0:25:03.000 sick or in jail, and you all have a very 0:25:03.520 --> 0:25:06.159 intense meeting that you have to do, and you need 0:25:06.200 --> 0:25:09.440 a skilled facilitator. Not that everyone needs to be equal 0:25:09.480 --> 0:25:13.320 in all skills within in a given group, but you 0:25:13.320 --> 0:25:16.440 you need to learn to If you are very good 0:25:16.480 --> 0:25:19.199 at something, your job is to make someone else very 0:25:19.240 --> 0:25:19.880 good at it too. 0:25:20.160 --> 0:25:21.520 That's the thing both for meetings in the way it 0:25:21.560 --> 0:25:24.320 was explained to me, and this is a more kind 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:26.879 of I don't know what term beat us for, but 0:25:27.040 --> 0:25:28.560 it was taught to me as your job is to 0:25:28.640 --> 0:25:32.560 organize yourself out of a job. Yeah, totally. Okay, So 0:25:32.720 --> 0:25:36.119 we're going to move on to the second roll, which 0:25:36.160 --> 0:25:40.600 is the stack taker. So okay, the stack this when 0:25:40.640 --> 0:25:44.240 I first started talking about this as a social technology, 0:25:44.280 --> 0:25:46.959 the thing I specifically met was the stack, and then 0:25:47.000 --> 0:25:48.760 eventually I was like, no, it's actually the whole process is. 0:25:48.760 --> 0:25:52.199 But the stack very very simple invention, but if you 0:25:52.240 --> 0:25:54.840 don't have it, it's a disaster. The stack, as we 0:25:54.920 --> 0:25:56.960 said before, is just literally a list of names of 0:25:56.960 --> 0:25:59.000 who's going to talk in what order. Someone raises their hand, 0:25:59.000 --> 0:25:59.920 they could add to the stack. 0:26:00.080 --> 0:26:00.280 Yep. 0:26:00.960 --> 0:26:04.159 That is very simple. It is also absolutely crucial to 0:26:04.200 --> 0:26:08.000 making sure a meeting runs at all. Most groups tend 0:26:08.040 --> 0:26:11.439 to use some variation of what's called a progressive stack, 0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:13.760 where you know, this is part of we were talking 0:26:13.800 --> 0:26:17.960 about earlier, like step forward and step back, But when 0:26:18.000 --> 0:26:20.080 you're compiling a stack, you want to have the people 0:26:20.080 --> 0:26:24.119 who speak less in front. And this works sort of 0:26:24.119 --> 0:26:28.080 in two ways, right. One is it's okay, so if 0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:30.960 there's someone who's not like a cis white dude and 0:26:31.000 --> 0:26:33.399 who was trying to say something, you probably want them 0:26:33.440 --> 0:26:35.280 to say something because they are less likely to be 0:26:35.320 --> 0:26:38.080 the one who says something, yeah, just because of the 0:26:38.080 --> 0:26:39.879 way that sort of whiteness is structure, because of the 0:26:39.880 --> 0:26:41.800 way that like masculinity structure, because of the way that 0:26:41.800 --> 0:26:44.359 these things work. So you want to give opportunities to 0:26:44.400 --> 0:26:47.879 speak to people who like don't usually get heard. And 0:26:47.920 --> 0:26:51.960 then also if someone just like hasn't been talking in 0:26:52.040 --> 0:26:54.400 a meeting and they want to say something, and that's 0:26:54.400 --> 0:26:57.000 also a part of the sort of facilitation. And sometimes 0:26:57.200 --> 0:26:59.840 I know this is the thing that like a role 0:27:00.119 --> 0:27:02.720 I've seen passed out between a bunch of different roles, 0:27:02.760 --> 0:27:04.760 and I guess everyone kind of has a responsibility to 0:27:04.760 --> 0:27:07.280 do this. But if there's someone in a meeting who 0:27:07.280 --> 0:27:10.520 has not been saying anything. It's generally a good idea 0:27:10.600 --> 0:27:12.439 to be like, hey are you okay? And also like 0:27:13.720 --> 0:27:16.280 more important lead to some extent than there are you okay? 0:27:16.320 --> 0:27:17.879 Of like what do you think about this? 0:27:18.359 --> 0:27:19.919 Yeah, although I do think that there's a little bit 0:27:19.960 --> 0:27:22.960 of a like some people don't want to specifically be 0:27:23.000 --> 0:27:25.399 called on in that way. Yeah, and so that's kind 0:27:25.440 --> 0:27:27.800 of a like learning to read the room skill definitely 0:27:27.880 --> 0:27:30.199 about when you want to encourage people to step up 0:27:30.240 --> 0:27:31.840 versus other people are like no, I don't have anything 0:27:31.840 --> 0:27:33.720 particular to say, and I don't want to get you know, 0:27:33.920 --> 0:27:37.720 singled out. I think that in smaller meetings sometimes the 0:27:37.760 --> 0:27:40.760 facilitator can keep stack. Larger meetings, that's a terrible plan. 0:27:41.000 --> 0:27:43.359 But yeah, it's large meetings you need to you can't. 0:27:43.640 --> 0:27:46.000 Yeah, I've been both to be doing it, Yeah, because 0:27:46.040 --> 0:27:48.080 you need someone keeping track of who's raising their hands 0:27:48.080 --> 0:27:50.119 when and things like that. Sometimes you're actually even writing 0:27:50.119 --> 0:27:52.480 the stack on a whiteboard so people can see. 0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:54.240 Yeah, yeah, you've like a piece of paper. Yeah. 0:27:54.440 --> 0:27:57.560 I have been in meetings that sort of self facilitate 0:27:57.680 --> 0:28:00.920 fairly effectively in smaller groups, where a thing that people 0:28:00.920 --> 0:28:03.440 can do is if they have a thing they want 0:28:03.480 --> 0:28:05.720 to say, they hold up one finger and they keep 0:28:05.720 --> 0:28:07.760 that finger up, and if someone else is something that 0:28:07.800 --> 0:28:09.960 they want to say, they put up two fingers, and 0:28:09.960 --> 0:28:11.359 then if someone else is something they want to say, 0:28:11.359 --> 0:28:13.600 they put up three fingers. And so you can have 0:28:13.680 --> 0:28:18.000 this method by which people track their own stack. But 0:28:18.800 --> 0:28:20.960 this is a small group thing. This is not a 0:28:21.520 --> 0:28:23.119 and this is a people who know each other and 0:28:23.200 --> 0:28:25.480 know how to do the balancing that we're talking about 0:28:25.480 --> 0:28:26.800 about making sure everyone gets heard. 0:28:27.400 --> 0:28:29.480 Yeah, And I think part of this also it's important 0:28:29.520 --> 0:28:31.560 to remember, is like this is like one oh one, 0:28:31.640 --> 0:28:34.320 oh yeah sorry, as an advanced skill kind of And 0:28:34.359 --> 0:28:36.720 I'm introducing some things that are probably more advanced than 0:28:36.720 --> 0:28:39.200 one on one, like like like they're like, okay, figuring 0:28:39.200 --> 0:28:42.320 out why someone is uncomfortable talking on a like this 0:28:42.360 --> 0:28:44.640 person wants to talk, doesn't feel comfortable to and if 0:28:44.640 --> 0:28:46.880 you ask them, they will say something. And this person 0:28:46.920 --> 0:28:48.880 doesn't feel comfortable talking because they don't want to talk. 0:28:49.000 --> 0:28:50.880 That's kind of a more advanced thing. Fair enough, I 0:28:50.920 --> 0:28:52.880 guess we should talk about hand gestures here, which is 0:28:52.880 --> 0:28:55.760 that Okay, over the course of these beings, one of 0:28:55.960 --> 0:28:57.800 over the course of like movements one of the things 0:28:57.800 --> 0:29:01.400 that is built up is hand gestured because they can 0:29:01.440 --> 0:29:05.360 be a very effective way of, you know, someone expressing 0:29:05.400 --> 0:29:08.720 something without having to talk over someone else. This is 0:29:09.280 --> 0:29:10.800 I don't know, this is the one on one I'm 0:29:11.000 --> 0:29:15.520 not going to teach hand gestures because everyone has different ones, 0:29:15.800 --> 0:29:18.880 and there are some that are pretty universal. But like 0:29:19.160 --> 0:29:21.640 the number of different gestures I've seen for like direct 0:29:21.680 --> 0:29:25.520 response and ship like it is the thing that like, 0:29:25.520 --> 0:29:28.280 like hand gestures can work and can be really Yeah, 0:29:28.440 --> 0:29:29.800 you're doing one of the head you're doing one of 0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:34.880 the make a triangle in your hands. Fuck, I forgot 0:29:34.840 --> 0:29:38.240 about point a process. Oh no, well there's all of 0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:40.920 this very very complicated stuff. It's not that complicated, but 0:29:40.960 --> 0:29:44.360 like like point up process sucks like that, she's actually complicated. 0:29:44.400 --> 0:29:47.200 I'm actually derailing again. I'm so sorry. This is an example. 0:29:47.240 --> 0:29:49.400 If there was a facilitator in this call, they would 0:29:49.400 --> 0:29:50.280 be making me shut up. 0:29:50.320 --> 0:29:50.920 That is what's happening. 0:29:50.960 --> 0:29:53.040 Yeah no, but but but this is actually like this 0:29:53.120 --> 0:29:54.640 this this is this is the one time I've ever 0:29:54.680 --> 0:29:56.760 wished there was like videos you could see the hand 0:29:56.760 --> 0:30:00.680 gestures because like the thing about this, right is, once 0:30:00.720 --> 0:30:02.880 you are good at meetings and like if you have 0:30:02.880 --> 0:30:04.480 people who do this and you talk about what the 0:30:04.520 --> 0:30:07.600 handjesters are beforehand, that's also important. You can't even if 0:30:07.680 --> 0:30:10.360 if you're very good at meetings and you're still listening 0:30:10.360 --> 0:30:11.840 to this episode for some reason. I mean, I don't 0:30:11.880 --> 0:30:14.280 know it's a good episode, but like, you can't assume 0:30:14.320 --> 0:30:16.440 that everyone knows what your hand gestures are. Yeah, and 0:30:16.480 --> 0:30:19.600 sometimes people have different hand gestures for different things. Sometimes 0:30:19.600 --> 0:30:22.760 you have contextual hand gestures for like like there are 0:30:22.800 --> 0:30:25.720 like okay, like you're if you are trying to meet 0:30:25.880 --> 0:30:30.520 in the dark. Yeah, your your hand gestures don't work right. 0:30:30.880 --> 0:30:33.760 This is also stolen from another friend, right, Like sometimes 0:30:33.760 --> 0:30:35.760 you need to use snaps for that, because so that 0:30:35.800 --> 0:30:38.760 you can hear, right, Like what all of us is 0:30:38.800 --> 0:30:41.160 to say that like the stuff with hand gestures, it 0:30:41.200 --> 0:30:43.160 can make your meetings a lot more effective. This is 0:30:43.160 --> 0:30:44.640 the thing you can do if everyone in the group 0:30:44.720 --> 0:30:48.280 understands how they work. I'm not gonna be like teaching 0:30:48.320 --> 0:30:50.640 you sets of hand gestures here because I can't guarantee 0:30:50.640 --> 0:30:52.200 that any gesture I teach you will be the one 0:30:52.200 --> 0:30:53.560 that people use. Can I can? 0:30:53.600 --> 0:30:56.520 I though, like speed run the concepts of some of them, 0:30:56.520 --> 0:30:58.360 because I think they are useful to understand. Yeah, yeah, 0:30:58.360 --> 0:31:01.000 because it's hard to imagine when you amagine meetings. I 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:02.840 think about this a lot because I write meetings into fiction, 0:31:02.880 --> 0:31:04.479 which is a very hard thing to do and make 0:31:04.480 --> 0:31:06.600 them entertaining, because they're also hard to be entertained and 0:31:06.640 --> 0:31:10.760 by when you're in them, unless they're contentious. But there 0:31:10.800 --> 0:31:14.800 are certain things that you learn derail meetings, and there 0:31:14.840 --> 0:31:17.600 are ways in which by using hand gestures you can 0:31:17.640 --> 0:31:20.960 avoid having more people speak, And the single most important 0:31:21.000 --> 0:31:24.480 and common one is a way of saying I agree, 0:31:24.840 --> 0:31:27.520 and so that way people when they really want to 0:31:27.560 --> 0:31:29.600 say something but they're not on stack and they get 0:31:29.600 --> 0:31:33.320 really frustrated, they can do that hand gesture, which you 0:31:33.320 --> 0:31:35.920 know is very easy to make fun of. You know, 0:31:36.000 --> 0:31:38.160 when I was coming up, it was twinkle fingers, where 0:31:38.160 --> 0:31:41.040 you waggle your fingers, and then we were like punk, 0:31:41.120 --> 0:31:43.680 so we did metal fingers instead, which was literally the 0:31:43.680 --> 0:31:46.160 same thing but reverse kind of like the look that 0:31:46.200 --> 0:31:48.120 you do when you really like music, and it's actually 0:31:48.160 --> 0:31:51.440 sort of like mimicking playing a guitar. And so that's 0:31:51.480 --> 0:31:54.600 a very important concept. And sometimes people use snaps, although 0:31:54.640 --> 0:31:57.560 sometimes people prefer not audio and other people prefer audio. 0:31:58.480 --> 0:32:01.480 Yeah, yeah, and that's likely and that's a that's possure. 0:32:01.520 --> 0:32:04.080 While I was talking about like like that's that's dependent 0:32:04.160 --> 0:32:06.239 on who's in the room and what the room is 0:32:06.520 --> 0:32:06.920 and like. 0:32:07.160 --> 0:32:10.040 But I think that a a I agree without needing 0:32:10.040 --> 0:32:11.680 to say anything is essential. 0:32:11.880 --> 0:32:13.280 Yeah, yeah, that's a good one. 0:32:13.640 --> 0:32:15.960 Other ones to just know of is that there are 0:32:16.000 --> 0:32:18.360 things like people will say like please move this along. 0:32:18.400 --> 0:32:19.400 It's a way of saying, hey. 0:32:19.280 --> 0:32:22.080 Facilitator, please shut this person up usually, or can we 0:32:22.120 --> 0:32:27.280 talk about something else. There's ones that are direct response, 0:32:27.320 --> 0:32:29.480 which is saying I would like to jump stack because 0:32:29.520 --> 0:32:31.760 this person has just insulted the honor of my family 0:32:31.840 --> 0:32:34.640 or whatever, and it's like it's up to the facilitator 0:32:34.680 --> 0:32:36.600 to decide whether to do these. Another one is point 0:32:36.600 --> 0:32:39.000 of process, which is saying like, hey, I actually don't 0:32:39.000 --> 0:32:40.360 want to talk about the thing we're talking about. I 0:32:40.360 --> 0:32:43.000 want to talk about how the meeting is going. Meetings 0:32:43.040 --> 0:32:46.120 get real meta and it's real frustrating anyway, So it's 0:32:46.160 --> 0:32:49.920 worth knowing that that this is part of the technology. 0:32:50.120 --> 0:32:54.760 It seems cringey from the outside, but like, are other options. 0:32:54.800 --> 0:32:57.360 I mean, there are other technologies about decision making that 0:32:57.360 --> 0:33:01.040 people have developed. But like, actually, I mean democratic lives 0:33:01.040 --> 0:33:03.160 in which we all have a say in our decisions 0:33:03.840 --> 0:33:06.200 sometimes means that we go to meetings and uh, and 0:33:06.200 --> 0:33:08.720 we can actually kind of learn to I'm talking shit 0:33:08.800 --> 0:33:12.320 on meetings, but that's meetings are also a ways to 0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:14.680 get to know your friends and express yourself and get 0:33:14.680 --> 0:33:15.160 things done. 0:33:15.560 --> 0:33:17.480 Yeah. You know, as much as I've been talking about 0:33:17.560 --> 0:33:21.160 being boring, like, I've had things that were technically organizing 0:33:21.200 --> 0:33:23.200 meetings that were like some of the most transformational experiences 0:33:23.240 --> 0:33:26.200 in my life totally because me and a bunch of 0:33:26.240 --> 0:33:28.320 people who you know, a bunch of people really close 0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:30.120 to me, like came together and we figured out how 0:33:30.120 --> 0:33:34.840 to do something, and there is a beauty there that 0:33:34.960 --> 0:33:37.360 is and this is personal to why it's hard to 0:33:37.360 --> 0:33:41.080 talk about these things, right because like the technical process 0:33:41.240 --> 0:33:44.800 of it, like the technical description of what we're saying, 0:33:45.800 --> 0:33:48.360 is at the same time being used to do something 0:33:48.360 --> 0:33:51.600 that can only be described in stead of poetic terms. Yeah, Like, 0:33:51.600 --> 0:33:54.440 the the actual experience of like you and a bunch 0:33:54.520 --> 0:33:56.880 of other people coming together to do something and figure 0:33:56.920 --> 0:33:59.000 out how to do it and fucking doing it is 0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:03.520 it is a transit active creation. Yeah, And these are 0:34:03.600 --> 0:34:06.280 like you know, yeah, like it doesn't like the fucking 0:34:06.320 --> 0:34:11.120 hammers and shovels and like fucking slide rules that you 0:34:11.280 --> 0:34:14.520 use to construct something don't look very pretty. And then 0:34:14.560 --> 0:34:16.680 at the end of it, you've built something together and 0:34:16.719 --> 0:34:17.400 it's beautiful. 0:34:17.520 --> 0:34:17.680 Yeah. 0:34:17.760 --> 0:34:20.000 No, it's it's the other side of the coin of 0:34:20.040 --> 0:34:22.080 the first time you watch the police run away from you. 0:34:22.840 --> 0:34:25.240 It is a way of coming together with other people 0:34:25.600 --> 0:34:30.160 to accomplish something and make something powerful. Is meetings, and 0:34:30.200 --> 0:34:32.600 it is also it's interesting because we talk about how 0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:35.440 men will often take up too much space in meetings. 0:34:35.480 --> 0:34:37.840 This is not a universal thing anytime we say this 0:34:37.920 --> 0:34:40.800 kind of thing, but it is actually often feminized labor 0:34:40.880 --> 0:34:44.320 because it's this invisibilized labor that happens behind the scenes 0:34:44.360 --> 0:34:48.640 that is not as sexy, right, and is about just 0:34:48.800 --> 0:34:53.560 actually hearing people out. It is like conflict resolution speed run. Anyway, 0:34:53.840 --> 0:34:56.480 I accidentally went off on the meta of meetings also. 0:34:56.400 --> 0:34:59.840 But no, it's good. Well, and I think there's a 0:34:59.880 --> 0:35:01.879 new important thing here too, because like we're talking about 0:35:01.880 --> 0:35:06.279 the politics of like meetings themselves, right of like the 0:35:06.400 --> 0:35:09.319 the you know, the actual political angle of what it 0:35:09.480 --> 0:35:13.080 means to have a democracy, where what democracy means you 0:35:13.080 --> 0:35:15.839 make decisions together. Yeah, and this is something there's there's 0:35:15.840 --> 0:35:18.520 also a very important actual procedural meeting note here, which 0:35:18.560 --> 0:35:21.000 is that one of the things you will learn over 0:35:21.040 --> 0:35:23.759 the course of doing meetings is that a lot of 0:35:23.800 --> 0:35:28.920 times people wage battles over the content of political ideology 0:35:29.000 --> 0:35:31.800 in the form of fighting over how a meeting works. Yeah, totally. 0:35:32.320 --> 0:35:35.880 And you can see this everywhere from like your fucking 0:35:35.920 --> 0:35:38.840 local organizing meeting and people yelling about who's on stack 0:35:38.920 --> 0:35:41.400 or whatever, all the way up to like, you know, 0:35:41.440 --> 0:35:43.920 when like when like the Democrats are saying that, like 0:35:43.920 --> 0:35:48.080 like in Congress that like the parliament the budget parliamentarian 0:35:48.160 --> 0:35:50.880 won't let them like raise the minimum wage. That's what 0:35:50.920 --> 0:35:54.520 they're doing. They're using an argument over procedure to like 0:35:55.080 --> 0:35:57.279 disguise the fact that what they're really arguing about is, 0:35:57.320 --> 0:35:59.200 like it is an actual political argument. 0:35:59.719 --> 0:36:00.000 Yeah. 0:36:00.080 --> 0:36:02.880 Yeah, but this is also a thing where like the 0:36:02.920 --> 0:36:06.160 way you structure a meeting is political. It doesn't seem 0:36:06.239 --> 0:36:09.120 like it, right, but you can have a meeting where, 0:36:09.480 --> 0:36:12.319 you know, it's like the fucking plentipotentiary meeting of like 0:36:12.360 --> 0:36:16.800 the executive committee of I don't know, the People's Congress, 0:36:16.800 --> 0:36:18.680 the Chinese companies, party or whatever. Those are not the 0:36:18.719 --> 0:36:21.160 right words. I'm on five hours of sleep. But you 0:36:21.160 --> 0:36:22.400 can have a meeting where it's just like, yeah, the 0:36:22.440 --> 0:36:24.279 way the meeting works is one guy stands out there 0:36:24.760 --> 0:36:26.600 and he gives a speech and he tells everyone what 0:36:26.640 --> 0:36:27.600 to say and then everyone votes. 0:36:27.680 --> 0:36:27.839 Yes. 0:36:27.920 --> 0:36:29.520 Yeah, that's the way you can do a meeting, right, 0:36:29.560 --> 0:36:31.640 And that's political and it fucking sucks. And we're trying 0:36:31.640 --> 0:36:34.359 to teach you how to do a meeting where, you know, 0:36:34.640 --> 0:36:36.840 we do democracy, where everyone comes together and we like 0:36:36.960 --> 0:36:40.719 do a thing. Yeah, and we will get to more 0:36:40.800 --> 0:36:43.719 roles next week. This was originally planned to be one episode. 0:36:44.080 --> 0:36:46.560 It is not one episode. It is now two episodes. 0:36:46.960 --> 0:36:49.839 But the upside is that we solved a bunch of 0:36:49.880 --> 0:36:54.160 the fundamental logistical problems about how to build a free society. 0:36:54.280 --> 0:36:57.760 So stay tuned for that, stay tuned for more roles 0:36:57.760 --> 0:37:00.719 you want in your meetings. And yes, they could happen here. 0:37:00.760 --> 0:37:24.040 And thank you Mark for coming on the show. Welcome 0:37:24.480 --> 0:37:28.200 to it could happen here a podcast about organizing. I 0:37:28.239 --> 0:37:30.560 am your host, Mia Long And in a moment we 0:37:30.600 --> 0:37:33.759 will be continuing our episode about how to run a meeting, 0:37:33.840 --> 0:37:37.319 which is one of the fundamental tools of building democracy 0:37:37.360 --> 0:37:41.600 and free societies. Here we go, okay, so other roles. 0:37:41.640 --> 0:37:43.800 So we talked about that. That was a long digression 0:37:43.840 --> 0:37:46.600 about the concept of a stack taker, which is at 0:37:46.640 --> 0:37:49.279 a very simple level. You write the names down, you 0:37:49.360 --> 0:37:53.879 call the names in order. Yep. Yeah, we're gonna move 0:37:53.920 --> 0:37:56.359 on to some of the other ones. Those are like 0:37:56.400 --> 0:37:59.560 the two I don't know if most important is the 0:37:59.640 --> 0:38:02.400 right word. Funnily enough, stack takers not the one I 0:38:02.440 --> 0:38:04.080 thought that digression was going to happen on that was. 0:38:04.080 --> 0:38:05.919 I thought that was gonna be the last one we're 0:38:05.920 --> 0:38:08.640 gonna get to. But oh no taker, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no, 0:38:08.640 --> 0:38:10.280 no, no no, this is vibes checker. 0:38:10.360 --> 0:38:15.640 Oh shit, the vibes checker is okay, okay, okay, please continue. 0:38:15.360 --> 0:38:19.040 Okay, let's do timekeeper. Timekeeper extremely important person. You want 0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:22.279 someone with like a watch or something, and the timekeeper's 0:38:22.320 --> 0:38:24.680 job is to give people reminders of like how much 0:38:24.680 --> 0:38:27.719 time things are taking. So you know a thing you 0:38:27.760 --> 0:38:30.239 can do is like, okay, so we know we have 0:38:30.280 --> 0:38:32.920 this much time allocated for something, right, so we have 0:38:32.920 --> 0:38:35.120 twenty minutes to talk about this, okay, So like ten 0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:36.560 minutes and you go, we have ten minutes left, we 0:38:36.560 --> 0:38:38.960 have five minutes left, we have like fifteen minutes left. Yeah, 0:38:39.000 --> 0:38:40.520 this is really important. And at the end of it, 0:38:40.520 --> 0:38:42.200 the timekeeper's job is to go like, hey, this is 0:38:42.200 --> 0:38:45.080 our allotted time. Do we want to keep talking about 0:38:45.080 --> 0:38:47.960 this and use more time or do we want to 0:38:48.000 --> 0:38:51.640 move on? Yeah, And that's a really important role. It's 0:38:51.640 --> 0:38:53.759 also kind of why you want to generally have like 0:38:53.840 --> 0:38:55.319 an idea of how long you want to talk about 0:38:55.320 --> 0:38:58.000 something in the agenda. It's also worth noting that like 0:38:58.080 --> 0:39:00.560 this is all guidelines, right, Like these are role. 0:39:00.560 --> 0:39:02.600 MIA's guidelines of order. Is that what you're calling this? 0:39:02.760 --> 0:39:04.520 Oh god, no, we'll take it. We'll take you. 0:39:04.520 --> 0:39:04.799 What more? 0:39:04.840 --> 0:39:08.680 Digression digression, which is that the anarchy symbol, the A 0:39:08.840 --> 0:39:10.959 with the circle around it is from a per dawned 0:39:11.040 --> 0:39:14.719 phrase that's the circle is actually an o because the 0:39:14.800 --> 0:39:17.239 original thing was anarchy. The original saying is anarchy is 0:39:17.239 --> 0:39:20.040 the mother of order. Yeah, and that's that's where that 0:39:20.080 --> 0:39:23.120 comes from. So I was gonna make it like me 0:39:23.239 --> 0:39:26.560 a's MEA's like procedure disorder whatever joke, but it's like no, no, no, 0:39:26.600 --> 0:39:29.759 this is actually like anarchy is order. Baby. 0:39:29.920 --> 0:39:31.880 I believe in an organized society. I just believe in 0:39:31.920 --> 0:39:35.080 an organically organized society. That is from the to use 0:39:35.080 --> 0:39:37.480 the Zapatista phrase from the bottom and the left. 0:39:37.320 --> 0:39:41.480 Yep, okay, So that that's timekeeper the note taker. Sometimes 0:39:41.520 --> 0:39:44.080 you need to decide whether you want notes of your meeting. Yeah, 0:39:44.120 --> 0:39:46.719 it depends on how crime you are. Yeah. I hear 0:39:46.760 --> 0:39:49.160 this all the time from people making jokes about the 0:39:49.200 --> 0:39:50.960 scene for the Wire that I've never seen the wire, 0:39:51.000 --> 0:39:52.680 but everone's making jokes as the scene for the Wire 0:39:52.719 --> 0:39:55.120 where guy goes, are you taking notes of the criminal continency? 0:39:58.640 --> 0:40:01.480 So okay, are are you going to have a note taker? 0:40:01.920 --> 0:40:04.959 And then secondly, like, okay, the note taker takes notes 0:40:05.040 --> 0:40:08.160 on what's being talked about. I actually this is also 0:40:08.239 --> 0:40:09.880 mea going into a little bit more advance stuff. I 0:40:09.880 --> 0:40:12.560 actually like the practice of kind of rotating this throughout 0:40:12.600 --> 0:40:15.240 the meeting because the problem with being the note taker. 0:40:15.280 --> 0:40:17.400 So if you're the timekeeper, right, you can be involved 0:40:17.400 --> 0:40:21.920 in the conversation. Stack taker is also hard to but 0:40:21.960 --> 0:40:25.160 the thing about the note taker, and you know, if 0:40:25.200 --> 0:40:27.799 you get good enough at this, you can rotate all 0:40:27.880 --> 0:40:31.239 of these roles during the meeting so that everyone has 0:40:31.239 --> 0:40:33.400 a chance to participate, so you don't just have a 0:40:33.400 --> 0:40:36.400 group of people who perpetually can't be in a meeting. 0:40:37.320 --> 0:40:38.640 And so note taker is a thing that you can 0:40:38.680 --> 0:40:41.799 pretty easily just like pass to someone else and be like, hey, 0:40:41.840 --> 0:40:43.759 you're not the note taker. So the person who's being 0:40:43.800 --> 0:40:45.480 the note taker can like say. 0:40:45.280 --> 0:40:48.440 Things yeah, although okay, So there's two weird funny things 0:40:48.440 --> 0:40:51.960 about this one. Sometimes people who tend not to want 0:40:51.960 --> 0:40:54.480 to talk much in a meeting but also maybe have 0:40:54.520 --> 0:40:56.839 an attention span where they would prefer to be doing 0:40:56.880 --> 0:41:02.200 something at all times prefer to be notea yeah. But famously, 0:41:02.600 --> 0:41:08.000 the International Workingman's Association or whatever, the the First International 0:41:08.400 --> 0:41:11.520 was an organization of a lot of different stripes of leftists. 0:41:12.040 --> 0:41:15.440 And someone went to someone's friend's apartment. This anarchists went 0:41:15.440 --> 0:41:18.000 to this anarchist friends apartment and was like, Hey, I 0:41:18.000 --> 0:41:20.279 want to invite my friend to this meeting. And this 0:41:20.320 --> 0:41:22.839 guy answers the door and his name's Carl Marx, and 0:41:22.880 --> 0:41:25.600 he's like, oh, well, did so and so's not here, 0:41:25.800 --> 0:41:27.200 and he's like, all right, well you can come too. 0:41:27.840 --> 0:41:30.600 So an anarchist invites Marx to the International. I don't 0:41:30.600 --> 0:41:32.799 have my notes in front of me, don't at me. 0:41:33.239 --> 0:41:36.880 But then Marx goes and he becomes the note taker, 0:41:37.280 --> 0:41:42.000 and by means of that takes a minority position which 0:41:42.120 --> 0:41:45.719 within the group and makes it the majority position by 0:41:45.840 --> 0:41:47.920 controlling the way that a lot of the media and 0:41:47.960 --> 0:41:51.319 expression and stuff around this was because Marx was a 0:41:51.320 --> 0:41:54.719 good writer and for better or worse, I have my 0:41:54.800 --> 0:41:57.600 opinion about whether it's for better or worse, And so 0:41:57.680 --> 0:42:01.000 there's a power within note taker that it actually is 0:42:01.040 --> 0:42:02.960 a reason to rotate this task. 0:42:03.080 --> 0:42:05.799 Yeah. On the other hand, if you're like not worried. 0:42:05.560 --> 0:42:07.440 About that, you can just have a person who's like, 0:42:07.480 --> 0:42:09.040 I just really want to be the one who takes notes. 0:42:09.080 --> 0:42:11.200 It really depends on everything's going to be contextual. I 0:42:11.239 --> 0:42:13.080 just wanted to tell that story about Marx. 0:42:13.760 --> 0:42:15.640 No, like this is this is the story of how 0:42:15.719 --> 0:42:18.840 Marx became Marx by taking a note taking job and 0:42:18.840 --> 0:42:20.640 then becoming the person who could wh would write the 0:42:20.680 --> 0:42:23.880 declarations for the organization. Yeah, we should note like this 0:42:24.000 --> 0:42:26.120 is also kind of how Stalent took power was by 0:42:26.200 --> 0:42:27.520 being the person in the back of the room he 0:42:27.560 --> 0:42:29.840 didn't say anything and keeping track of what everyone was 0:42:29.880 --> 0:42:32.719 doing and saying, and you being able to manipulate like 0:42:32.760 --> 0:42:36.560 the inner workings of these sort of parliamentary procedures that 0:42:36.640 --> 0:42:37.720 the Bolsheviks reusing. 0:42:37.960 --> 0:42:40.960 That's what the Robert not of the rules of order, 0:42:40.960 --> 0:42:43.319 but of the behind the bassards was saying about, Oh, 0:42:43.360 --> 0:42:45.480 the Cambodia man, the horrible de man and killed everyone. 0:42:45.560 --> 0:42:49.040 Oh Paul Pott was that he he was the quiet 0:42:49.040 --> 0:42:49.680 guy at the back. 0:42:51.200 --> 0:42:53.440 Yep, same kind of guy can be extremely dangerous. The 0:42:53.800 --> 0:42:55.880 guy who says everything all the time can be dangerous. 0:42:55.920 --> 0:42:58.160 Quiet person also can be very dangerous and just never 0:42:58.239 --> 0:43:00.400 trust anyone. That's the answer. Wait now, oh, hold on, 0:43:01.000 --> 0:43:05.320 hopefully we're not producing pullpot in these meetings. Okay. So 0:43:05.640 --> 0:43:08.839 the last like official role that I want to talk about, 0:43:08.840 --> 0:43:10.800 and there's a lot, there's like a million other roles 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:14.400 that people use. I want to talk about the vibes checker. 0:43:15.080 --> 0:43:17.880 So this is the one that's kind of not obvious 0:43:17.960 --> 0:43:20.799 from like the name, but the vibe checker is someone 0:43:20.840 --> 0:43:23.920 who actually has a really really important role. And your 0:43:24.000 --> 0:43:27.040 role is to figure out like, is everyone in the 0:43:27.080 --> 0:43:29.960 group okay, does this meeting feel okay? 0:43:30.440 --> 0:43:30.640 Yeah? 0:43:30.880 --> 0:43:32.239 And is just something we need to do about it? 0:43:32.320 --> 0:43:34.320 And some of this is like okay, everyone is clearly 0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:36.800 really tired, let's go get lunch. And that's like a 0:43:36.840 --> 0:43:39.319 pretty easy sort of vibe checker thing. But then also 0:43:39.640 --> 0:43:42.560 like I don't know, this is partially a facilitation job. 0:43:42.719 --> 0:43:44.279 Like I don't know, if someone says something racist in 0:43:44.320 --> 0:43:46.040 a meeting and a bunch of people are uncomfortable, it's 0:43:46.120 --> 0:43:48.759 like now you're suddenly glad you have the person whose 0:43:48.840 --> 0:43:51.640 job it is to be like, hey, what the fuck like, 0:43:51.840 --> 0:43:54.200 And that's also that's like obviously like that's a blatant 0:43:54.280 --> 0:43:56.239 enough thing that everyone can be like hold on, hold on, 0:43:56.920 --> 0:44:01.120 like don't like say a slur or whatever. But like, 0:44:01.400 --> 0:44:03.640 you know, the vibe checker's job is if there's a 0:44:03.680 --> 0:44:06.200 lot of people who are uncomfortable with something or if 0:44:06.239 --> 0:44:09.520 something like they're kind of there, if something is going wrong, 0:44:09.800 --> 0:44:13.400 or if people are checked out, or if like stuff's happening. 0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:15.279 Sometimes this is behind the scene things. Sometimes this is 0:44:15.840 --> 0:44:19.080 like explicit, like you make it, you bring it to 0:44:19.200 --> 0:44:21.160 the group to be like, hey, this is okay, we 0:44:21.239 --> 0:44:25.440 need to address this. Yeah kind of thing. I don't know. 0:44:25.800 --> 0:44:31.120 It's a hard role to sort of like explain. It's fuzzy, yeah, I. 0:44:31.160 --> 0:44:33.520 Mean, but it's it's in the name how are the 0:44:33.600 --> 0:44:36.360 vibes And vibe is a fuzzy word, and you know 0:44:36.560 --> 0:44:38.840 it's the word that people are going to interpret in 0:44:38.880 --> 0:44:39.439 different ways. 0:44:39.960 --> 0:44:43.360 Yeah, and like I as a very sort of materialist, 0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:46.239 godless atheist, I it's like, okay, this is how people 0:44:46.239 --> 0:44:46.680 are feeling. 0:44:47.120 --> 0:44:47.279 Right. 0:44:47.600 --> 0:44:50.320 People also take this in sort of more new agy directions. 0:44:50.360 --> 0:44:53.360 People take it in like but like you know, like 0:44:53.520 --> 0:44:56.120 the important thing about this is right you can feel 0:44:56.360 --> 0:44:59.839 in a meeting when it's really tense or when things 0:45:00.280 --> 0:45:05.680 like just weird, everything feels off. Everyone is like kissed 0:45:05.719 --> 0:45:09.480 off or tired or like just grossed out or like 0:45:09.760 --> 0:45:12.279 you know, and that's this person's job. This is why 0:45:12.320 --> 0:45:14.759 I'm putting it in here because it's it's one of 0:45:14.840 --> 0:45:19.600 these roles that like I deally, I guess this person 0:45:19.640 --> 0:45:21.960 doesn't do anything for a whole meeting, but they're just 0:45:22.040 --> 0:45:23.719 they're sort of watching it. I mean, like it it 0:45:23.960 --> 0:45:26.200 can't be good at the interviewing, but like it's especially 0:45:26.320 --> 0:45:29.080 important if something is going wrong in ways the group 0:45:29.400 --> 0:45:30.960 isn't addressing totally. 0:45:31.960 --> 0:45:33.680 It is good to have someone who's ready to step 0:45:33.760 --> 0:45:36.360 up and say, yeah, this is this is what's going on. 0:45:36.719 --> 0:45:39.560 Can I make a pitch for another role. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:45:39.880 --> 0:45:41.120 I don't have a name for this role. 0:45:41.400 --> 0:45:44.000 The very first activist meeting I went to when the 0:45:44.040 --> 0:45:47.560 world was young, during the ultra globalization movement. I went 0:45:47.640 --> 0:45:50.520 into a meeting for New York City indie media and 0:45:50.640 --> 0:45:52.239 I had no idea what was happening. But it was 0:45:52.280 --> 0:45:55.080 a public, open meeting and I was a young activist 0:45:55.160 --> 0:45:57.480 anarchist or whatever. And I went to this thing and 0:45:58.320 --> 0:46:01.319 someone sat next to me, knew that I was new, 0:46:01.920 --> 0:46:04.160 and sat next to me and explain what the fuck 0:46:04.239 --> 0:46:04.640 was happening. 0:46:05.320 --> 0:46:06.080 That's a good role. 0:46:06.320 --> 0:46:08.680 And I don't know if I would have become an 0:46:08.760 --> 0:46:12.839 activist if that person hadn't done that, because I went 0:46:12.920 --> 0:46:15.440 in and it was the middle of a contentious meeting 0:46:16.280 --> 0:46:19.719 about people talking about some stuff that was pretty important, 0:46:20.160 --> 0:46:21.759 and I had no idea what was happening, and someone 0:46:21.800 --> 0:46:24.040 explained it to me. I think it is very important 0:46:24.200 --> 0:46:27.719 to have someone know who is new and help them 0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:30.200 feel comfortable. You could call it like an usher if 0:46:30.200 --> 0:46:31.279 I was going to have a word, But that's like, 0:46:31.560 --> 0:46:33.480 because I'm really into this idea that our movements don't 0:46:33.480 --> 0:46:35.839 need gatekeepers, we need ushers. We need people to help 0:46:36.160 --> 0:46:38.359 people figure out find their seats and figure out how 0:46:38.360 --> 0:46:41.239 to plug in onboarding. But then the other thing I 0:46:41.280 --> 0:46:44.040 want to say is that with roles, the larger and 0:46:44.160 --> 0:46:46.359 more formal a meeting, the more likely you need these 0:46:46.400 --> 0:46:49.080 to be formalized roles. But I also think that these 0:46:49.120 --> 0:46:54.319 as generalized skills can be dispersed through Like I think 0:46:54.360 --> 0:46:57.120 that a lot of groups, especially if they're kind of 0:46:57.120 --> 0:46:59.960 comfortable with each other, you maybe have a rotating facility. 0:47:00.480 --> 0:47:02.920 You maybe have a stack taker, and you maybe are 0:47:03.000 --> 0:47:05.680 like who's taking notes right now, But stuff like timekeeper 0:47:05.760 --> 0:47:08.440 and vibes check might be a thing that everyone feels 0:47:08.440 --> 0:47:11.840 empowered to do. I think that understanding these as roles 0:47:12.080 --> 0:47:14.879 is different than saying at the top of the meeting, 0:47:15.000 --> 0:47:16.960 this is the way it is done. You must assign 0:47:17.080 --> 0:47:19.480 these things. It is always contextual based on the meeting. 0:47:20.040 --> 0:47:23.320 Yeah, the range inside of the meeting structure of like 0:47:23.400 --> 0:47:25.880 how formal and informal it is changes a lot. And 0:47:25.920 --> 0:47:28.279 that yeah, that like changes you know, that changes the roles, 0:47:28.320 --> 0:47:31.960 That changes how all of this stuff works totally. And 0:47:32.120 --> 0:47:34.279 that's one of the most important things about this is 0:47:34.400 --> 0:47:38.880 like being flexible, because the point of a meeting is 0:47:39.120 --> 0:47:45.200 not everyone followed the exact parliamentary procedures. The point of 0:47:45.280 --> 0:47:47.799 a meeting is we did the thing we came there 0:47:47.880 --> 0:47:50.239 to do, or sometimes we did we did a different thing, right, 0:47:50.320 --> 0:47:53.960 But it's like we all did something together and that 0:47:54.120 --> 0:47:56.759 thing happened, but we figured out how to make that 0:47:56.840 --> 0:47:59.880 thing happen. And that's the actual important part. The content 0:48:00.080 --> 0:48:02.960 the meeting is what's important. Not all of the structure 0:48:03.120 --> 0:48:05.480 is to enable the content. It's not the other way 0:48:05.520 --> 0:48:08.239 around it. Yeah, totally, right, totally and like yeah, I 0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:10.160 don't know, like if you have a timekeeper and someone 0:48:10.200 --> 0:48:12.879 does sen, they're doing time stuff too, right, Like that's 0:48:12.920 --> 0:48:14.520 a significantly better result. 0:48:14.880 --> 0:48:15.040 Then. 0:48:15.800 --> 0:48:17.880 Yeah, we just kept talking, So. 0:48:29.719 --> 0:48:31.160 Okay, can I make one more pitch about the thing 0:48:31.160 --> 0:48:32.040 that's important at a meeting? 0:48:32.440 --> 0:48:32.680 Yeah? 0:48:32.719 --> 0:48:33.840 Yeah. Food. 0:48:34.200 --> 0:48:36.440 I think that it's not always going to be appropriate 0:48:36.440 --> 0:48:38.359 in every specific situation, and there's a lot of things 0:48:38.360 --> 0:48:41.080 around dietary restrictions and all of these things, but making 0:48:41.200 --> 0:48:43.600 the meeting feel like a place that is worth going 0:48:43.719 --> 0:48:46.160 to and a thing that like I think food is 0:48:46.440 --> 0:48:50.080 basically like hosting and good hospitality and these sort of 0:48:50.520 --> 0:48:56.439 again invisibilized feminine labor things goes a really long way 0:48:57.200 --> 0:48:59.959 towards making everyone feel comfortable. It also helps people's attend 0:49:00.320 --> 0:49:03.960 spans and blood sugar, like whether every meeting's a pot 0:49:04.040 --> 0:49:06.560 luck or whether everyone just brings snacks, or whether it's 0:49:06.600 --> 0:49:08.320 at someone's house and they're like, fuck ya, I'm hosting. 0:49:08.400 --> 0:49:10.279 I'm going to make a bunch of food and you 0:49:10.360 --> 0:49:11.080 know whatever it is. 0:49:11.719 --> 0:49:14.759 Yeah, I've been theorizing this for a while that like 0:49:14.920 --> 0:49:17.240 we need because like obviously a lot of this technology 0:49:17.280 --> 0:49:20.040 has been worked out already, but also we have so 0:49:20.200 --> 0:49:22.960 much further to go in order to like be able 0:49:23.040 --> 0:49:25.920 to make decisions together in a free society, and like, 0:49:26.239 --> 0:49:28.080 I think we need to just have an initiative of 0:49:28.239 --> 0:49:31.000 like how do we make meetings fucking rip. One of 0:49:31.080 --> 0:49:34.359 my ideas has always been, like you have a meeting 0:49:34.440 --> 0:49:38.120 that's just like the standing barbecue meeting that happens like 0:49:38.280 --> 0:49:40.800 every like it's like the endless meeting, and it's like, okay, 0:49:40.840 --> 0:49:43.239 you have it at like yeah this time, and there's 0:49:43.280 --> 0:49:45.760 just like a barbecue and everyone does barbecue. 0:49:45.280 --> 0:49:47.480 Stuff and yeah, it's just a standing thing where if 0:49:47.480 --> 0:49:49.680 you want to come and like and then okay, just 0:49:49.719 --> 0:49:52.480 to keep talking about some of the stuff childcare, childcare, 0:49:52.560 --> 0:49:54.320 you think when you mentioned at the beginning being like 0:49:54.480 --> 0:49:56.719 making sure that the space is accessible to everyone. And 0:49:56.760 --> 0:49:59.239 there's a lot of stuff that gets forgotten about. In particular, 0:50:00.280 --> 0:50:03.840 I would say that single parents are often forgotten about, 0:50:04.280 --> 0:50:07.600 and I think that having or parents in general, or 0:50:07.840 --> 0:50:10.640 children in general are often forgotten about. And I think 0:50:10.719 --> 0:50:14.560 that having a plan in place for accessibility of all 0:50:14.640 --> 0:50:17.320 kinds of different people often includes childcare. 0:50:17.560 --> 0:50:20.279 I used to do this. Oh that's cool. Yeah, that's 0:50:20.320 --> 0:50:22.360 like one of the things that I did for some meetings, 0:50:22.440 --> 0:50:24.239 and like, yeah, there are like meetings that happened. They're 0:50:24.239 --> 0:50:26.960 like tens meetings that happened because like people stayed and 0:50:27.000 --> 0:50:29.040 played with everyone's kids. It was a good time. 0:50:29.880 --> 0:50:34.080 And yeah, there's also this idea where sometimes meetings people 0:50:34.160 --> 0:50:35.759 can come in and out of the society that I 0:50:35.840 --> 0:50:38.359 want to live in has neighborhood assemblies that then move 0:50:38.440 --> 0:50:40.759 up to larger structures and make decisions right. And in 0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:43.319 those there's also this thing where it's like you don't 0:50:43.360 --> 0:50:45.120 always have to go to meetings. Yeah, there's a thing 0:50:45.320 --> 0:50:48.279 that about democracy that people don't quite always get, which 0:50:48.320 --> 0:50:50.080 is that sometimes the most beautiful thing we can do 0:50:50.200 --> 0:50:54.799 for each other is give our agency freely to other 0:50:54.880 --> 0:50:57.560 people to make decisions for us that we trust. Working 0:50:57.560 --> 0:50:59.200 groups are actually a good, big part of this where 0:50:59.239 --> 0:51:00.680 I'm like, I don't actually want to have a say 0:51:00.719 --> 0:51:03.120 in every single decision that affects me. I want to 0:51:03.200 --> 0:51:06.160 be able to have a say in every single decision 0:51:06.200 --> 0:51:09.239 that affects me. Anyway, I'm again going kind of meta 0:51:09.280 --> 0:51:09.440 on this. 0:51:09.480 --> 0:51:13.279 Sorry, no, no, both this is important, right, you know. 0:51:13.480 --> 0:51:15.120 And also, like doing the childcare was part of that, 0:51:15.200 --> 0:51:18.080 because like, yeah, it meant like, you know, I was 0:51:18.400 --> 0:51:20.200 kind of I was like trusting my people in the 0:51:20.239 --> 0:51:22.759 group to like do the meeting without me while I 0:51:22.920 --> 0:51:25.400 was just sort of like taking care of like just 0:51:25.480 --> 0:51:29.440 taking care of kids. And that was a really beautiful 0:51:29.560 --> 0:51:33.680 thing and it worked really well. It fucking ripped. 0:51:34.040 --> 0:51:36.920 Yeah, and you can build multi generational movements, which are 0:51:36.960 --> 0:51:39.000 the only movements that accomplish That's not true. 0:51:40.120 --> 0:51:41.759 Sudden movements also accomplish things. 0:51:41.800 --> 0:51:43.040 But when I look at some of the real high 0:51:43.040 --> 0:51:46.400 water marks from the bottom and the left organizing around 0:51:46.400 --> 0:51:49.920 the world, you're talking about people who are drawn from 0:51:50.040 --> 0:51:52.680 hundreds of years of radical legacies, or at least a 0:51:52.719 --> 0:51:53.600 couple of generations. 0:51:54.160 --> 0:51:57.600 Yeah, speaking of generations, I don't know, I don't have 0:51:57.600 --> 0:52:00.680 a good pivot into this. But okay, so we've been 0:52:00.719 --> 0:52:02.800 talking a lot of about a lot of the technology 0:52:02.840 --> 0:52:05.560 that's been used for meetings. I want to talk about 0:52:05.600 --> 0:52:09.120 a couple of other kinds of meetings that you can have. 0:52:10.200 --> 0:52:11.719 When I originally was writing this, I was like, Oh, 0:52:11.760 --> 0:52:13.799 I could fit this whole, this whole section of how 0:52:13.840 --> 0:52:15.120 to run a meeting. This will be like, this will 0:52:15.160 --> 0:52:16.840 be like twenty minutes, and I can have twenty minutes 0:52:16.880 --> 0:52:19.720 about like the spokes councils, of twenty minutes about general assemblies. 0:52:19.719 --> 0:52:21.040 And we're not like an hour. We're not This is 0:52:21.080 --> 0:52:23.880 like this episode in market On and we have not 0:52:24.000 --> 0:52:27.240 even started talking. So okay, that's going to be another 0:52:27.360 --> 0:52:29.760 The general assembly episode is going to be another episode 0:52:30.320 --> 0:52:32.200 completely in and of itself. But I do want to 0:52:32.280 --> 0:52:34.480 talk about spokes councils because this is the thing that 0:52:34.520 --> 0:52:37.799 I've been finding really really useful that I think people 0:52:37.880 --> 0:52:40.560 just don't know about anymore. And because people have lost 0:52:40.680 --> 0:52:43.960 the knowledge of this, a really valuable organizational tactic has 0:52:44.000 --> 0:52:47.840 been lost. So okay, the thing that a meeting is 0:52:48.040 --> 0:52:50.160 there to do is so a group of people can 0:52:50.200 --> 0:52:52.239 come together and make decisions. But how do you make 0:52:52.280 --> 0:52:56.080 decisions between groups or and this is also often more 0:52:56.120 --> 0:52:58.359 important less than having like because you know a lot 0:52:58.400 --> 0:53:02.160 of spokes countles are usually supposed to be like we're 0:53:02.160 --> 0:53:04.239 all making like we're all sort of like this is 0:53:04.280 --> 0:53:06.960 like a binding decision handed down by like spokes council. Right, 0:53:07.400 --> 0:53:11.040 this is also a really useful coordinating tool. Yeah, and 0:53:11.160 --> 0:53:12.560 this is what it's you know, what it's like actually 0:53:12.600 --> 0:53:15.359 designed for is how do you get groups to sort 0:53:15.400 --> 0:53:17.399 of talk to each other and work with each other 0:53:18.600 --> 0:53:21.000 in a way that also lets them continue to be 0:53:21.239 --> 0:53:24.080 like their own groups and not you know, a sort 0:53:24.120 --> 0:53:26.440 of like subservient to the larger coalition. 0:53:26.760 --> 0:53:26.920 Yeah. 0:53:26.960 --> 0:53:29.799 Yeah, and you know, the answer to this turns out 0:53:29.800 --> 0:53:31.880 as a technology that was developed. Actually don't know the 0:53:31.920 --> 0:53:33.600 history of the spokest council. I mean it's been around 0:53:33.640 --> 0:53:36.000 for like a long time. I don't either, like at 0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:39.640 least like thirty forty years in anarchist circles, but it 0:53:39.840 --> 0:53:41.760 has really made it out of them. And so spokes 0:53:41.800 --> 0:53:45.200 council is a meeting of groups, and so it's it's 0:53:45.280 --> 0:53:46.480 it's a meeting of spokespeople. 0:53:46.640 --> 0:53:46.759 Right. 0:53:46.960 --> 0:53:49.640 So your group sends like one or two people to 0:53:49.760 --> 0:53:51.840 a thing. You send like a couple of people and 0:53:52.239 --> 0:53:55.080 all of the other groups send some people and you 0:53:55.200 --> 0:53:58.160 come talk about a thing. Yeah, And this is really 0:53:58.280 --> 0:54:01.200 useful for a number of reasons. One, it's a way 0:54:01.320 --> 0:54:04.040 for different kinds of groups to interface with each other 0:54:04.200 --> 0:54:06.920 in ways that they usually don't. So this can be 0:54:07.000 --> 0:54:11.239 anything from like an affinity group to like an NGO 0:54:11.520 --> 0:54:14.960 to like a union. Ye, it can scale between different 0:54:15.080 --> 0:54:16.880 kinds of things. It can theoretically you can do this 0:54:17.000 --> 0:54:21.799 with like you you're like fucking spokes council could theoretically 0:54:21.880 --> 0:54:25.239 send a person to another spokes council totally right, And 0:54:25.360 --> 0:54:27.319 this is you know, we'll get more to this a second, right, 0:54:27.360 --> 0:54:29.800 but like, like, like, this is a way for a 0:54:29.960 --> 0:54:32.239 bunch of different types of organizations to come together and 0:54:32.320 --> 0:54:34.440 do something. And it's a way for them to coordinate 0:54:34.480 --> 0:54:36.359 with each other. It's way for other share information. It's 0:54:36.360 --> 0:54:38.000 a way for them to and this is like one 0:54:38.000 --> 0:54:39.600 of the sort of secrets of organizing is that, like 0:54:40.719 --> 0:54:43.719 actual organizing is built through personal relationships with people knowing 0:54:43.760 --> 0:54:45.920 each other. And so this is a way for like 0:54:46.160 --> 0:54:49.439 people to like meet each other and get to do things. 0:54:49.880 --> 0:54:53.960 There are different kinds of these. A traditional one is like, Okay, 0:54:54.080 --> 0:54:55.759 there's like a thing happening right, Like, there is a 0:54:55.880 --> 0:54:58.520 there is a giant protest, and like a bunch of 0:54:58.560 --> 0:54:59.920 people who are going to be a bunch of the 0:55:00.000 --> 0:55:02.399 different groups and organizations in diffinity groups and whatever we're 0:55:02.400 --> 0:55:04.279 going to be at this thing come together and they're like, Okay, 0:55:04.320 --> 0:55:06.680 how what are we doing? How are we going to 0:55:06.719 --> 0:55:09.400 sort of do this and how do we coordinate this 0:55:09.600 --> 0:55:10.080 with each other? 0:55:10.600 --> 0:55:10.799 Yeah? 0:55:11.160 --> 0:55:13.200 And yeah, Mark, I assume you've been in like a 0:55:13.280 --> 0:55:14.160 million of these. 0:55:14.800 --> 0:55:14.960 You know. 0:55:15.520 --> 0:55:17.440 I have been in a lot of spokes Council meetings. 0:55:18.000 --> 0:55:19.719 I've been in a fewer of them, and I think 0:55:19.880 --> 0:55:21.680 you're right, there's been a bit of a drop off. 0:55:21.920 --> 0:55:22.920 Yeah, it's funny. 0:55:22.960 --> 0:55:24.320 When we were talking earlier, I was like, oh, I 0:55:24.400 --> 0:55:25.759 haven't done this in a while. I actually do go 0:55:25.840 --> 0:55:30.399 to meetings every week, but I like, but I used 0:55:30.440 --> 0:55:33.480 to go to meetings specifically for direct action protests, and 0:55:33.560 --> 0:55:35.520 that is a thing that I used to have more 0:55:35.680 --> 0:55:37.800 direct experience with. Yeah, and so I don't want to 0:55:37.840 --> 0:55:40.160 be like all people stop doing it because I don't 0:55:40.280 --> 0:55:43.040 totally know because I'm not totally plugged in. But I 0:55:43.160 --> 0:55:46.080 do think the alder globalization movement of like nineteen ninety 0:55:46.120 --> 0:55:48.120 nine to two thousand and three or so, is where 0:55:48.320 --> 0:55:51.960 a lot of modern protest tactics and stuff were developed, 0:55:52.000 --> 0:55:54.480 or rather it came to a head. The tactics have 0:55:54.520 --> 0:55:57.320 been developed for decades by various different groups. Yeah, and 0:55:57.960 --> 0:56:02.200 actually a lot of the technologies around spokes, councils and stuff, 0:56:02.880 --> 0:56:05.080 they come from a lot of different sources, including I 0:56:05.120 --> 0:56:06.719 think anarchists and the Spanish Civil War, but I'm not 0:56:06.719 --> 0:56:08.520 one hundred percent certain about that. But a lot of 0:56:08.560 --> 0:56:12.000 the alter globalization movement stuff comes from the zappoutisas in Chiapas. 0:56:12.000 --> 0:56:13.440 I know you didn't ask for history lesson and I'll 0:56:13.440 --> 0:56:15.200 speed run it. No, no, no, no, this is good though. 0:56:15.400 --> 0:56:18.920 You know, the folks in Chiapas and the Zapatisas have 0:56:19.080 --> 0:56:22.600 developed a lot of different ideas about how to have 0:56:22.960 --> 0:56:25.520 bottom up democracy, and they've been moving through different ones. 0:56:25.560 --> 0:56:27.880 They actually moved to a more decentralized model than they 0:56:28.239 --> 0:56:30.799 were doing about two years ago, in twenty twenty three. 0:56:32.000 --> 0:56:36.239 But they went around the world and built organizations by 0:56:36.320 --> 0:56:40.080 saying everyone, send your people, We're getting together, the People's 0:56:40.080 --> 0:56:42.960 Global Alliance like all of these like you know, Global South, 0:56:43.000 --> 0:56:45.640 and were putting in air quotes. Here we're getting together 0:56:45.719 --> 0:56:48.600 and we're building direct action movements together, and that is 0:56:48.600 --> 0:56:50.880 where the ault globalization movement comes from, at least as 0:56:50.960 --> 0:56:54.320 much as anything else. And some of that is that 0:56:54.520 --> 0:56:58.080 technology of saying, send your representatives and do this thing. 0:56:58.360 --> 0:57:00.560 But it's interesting because in some ways it's actually just 0:57:00.640 --> 0:57:06.279 an upside down version of parliamentary democracy, right, where theoretically 0:57:07.239 --> 0:57:11.160 we elect a politician and they go speak for us. 0:57:11.560 --> 0:57:12.040 They don't. 0:57:12.760 --> 0:57:16.080 That is the concept behind a democracy, right, And so 0:57:16.320 --> 0:57:19.680 theoretically you can send a delegate, and there's two ways 0:57:19.680 --> 0:57:22.480 of doing it. There's a decision making larger body and 0:57:22.600 --> 0:57:25.440 there's a coordinating larger body. And if you want to 0:57:25.520 --> 0:57:28.720 maintain every group's autonomy, it is a coordinating body. You 0:57:28.840 --> 0:57:31.720 get together and at the spokes council you say, the 0:57:31.840 --> 0:57:35.080 ten people I represent who will remain nameless, are all 0:57:35.160 --> 0:57:37.720 willing to get arrested tomorrow, and we're all willing to 0:57:37.800 --> 0:57:40.760 lock ourselves down. And someone else will say, we don't 0:57:40.760 --> 0:57:43.160 want to get arrested. The fourteen people that I'm representing 0:57:43.680 --> 0:57:45.919 kind of want to break shit. And then other people 0:57:45.960 --> 0:57:48.800 will be like, the fifteen people that I represent kind 0:57:48.800 --> 0:57:51.000 of wish you all wouldn't break shit, and you can 0:57:51.080 --> 0:57:54.040 get together and coordinate, and then the breakshit people can 0:57:54.120 --> 0:57:55.880 be like, oh, okay, well we'll make sure we break 0:57:55.880 --> 0:57:58.960 shit somewhere else than where you are and all of 0:57:59.040 --> 0:58:02.200 this stuff. And whereas a decision making body would get 0:58:02.240 --> 0:58:06.880 together and your spoke would have a mandate from your group, 0:58:06.960 --> 0:58:10.600 they would be empowered to make decisions for everyone, knowing 0:58:10.880 --> 0:58:13.720 that the decision has to be within a certain framework. 0:58:14.320 --> 0:58:16.360 And then basically when they're done, you'd be like, Okay, 0:58:16.480 --> 0:58:18.200 you did or didn't succeed at your mandate. We're going 0:58:18.240 --> 0:58:20.240 to send someone else next time, or whatever. So there's 0:58:20.240 --> 0:58:22.720 two different ways of doing spokes council meetings. I think 0:58:22.800 --> 0:58:24.600 one of the reasons that they fell out of favor 0:58:25.080 --> 0:58:28.640 is that by and large, open organizing of direct action 0:58:28.880 --> 0:58:33.760 has diminished in the movement because it may or may 0:58:33.840 --> 0:58:36.440 not be legal to show up somewhere and say, well, 0:58:36.480 --> 0:58:39.280 the fifteen people I represent want to break shit, or 0:58:39.360 --> 0:58:41.680 even the fifteen people that I represent want to lock 0:58:41.760 --> 0:58:45.200 ourselves down into big puppets with lock boxes right and 0:58:45.320 --> 0:58:49.120 disrupt global trade. Because of the ramping up of repression, 0:58:49.480 --> 0:58:52.560 people have backed off of certain types of open organizing Yeah, 0:58:52.680 --> 0:58:54.520 I have opinions about that, but that's kind. 0:58:54.440 --> 0:58:56.040 Of I'm actually not trying to tell anyone what to 0:58:56.080 --> 0:58:56.480 do about it. 0:58:56.760 --> 0:58:58.200 But so I think that that's part of why the 0:58:58.240 --> 0:59:00.760 spokes Council has a little bit demas and I actually 0:59:00.800 --> 0:59:02.840 think that we just need to adapt the spokes Council 0:59:02.920 --> 0:59:05.080 to the modern context. And I'm sure people do still 0:59:05.120 --> 0:59:05.400 do them. 0:59:05.720 --> 0:59:08.280 So this is where we're getting this is this is 0:59:08.320 --> 0:59:11.760 what I'm calling them via technology, which is there have 0:59:12.000 --> 0:59:15.240 been spokes councils recently that are not like that are 0:59:15.320 --> 0:59:19.000 not this, that are using the idea of the spokes 0:59:19.080 --> 0:59:22.920 Council but are kind of a different thing. Okay, because 0:59:23.000 --> 0:59:26.560 there's another thing that you can do with this organizational form, 0:59:27.240 --> 0:59:30.000 right of everyone sends their delegates together or whatever, like 0:59:30.680 --> 0:59:33.480 everyone sends their like spokespeople and everyone meets each other. 0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:37.200 You can also do this for like not planning a 0:59:37.280 --> 0:59:39.880 direct action. Yeah, totally. And you can do this as 0:59:39.960 --> 0:59:42.400 a way to get all of the different organizations and 0:59:42.480 --> 0:59:44.280 like affinity groups and shit in a city talking to 0:59:44.320 --> 0:59:48.600 each other. Yeah, and this turns out to be extremely useful. 0:59:48.840 --> 0:59:49.040 Yeah. 0:59:49.920 --> 0:59:52.560 I've seen this a lot recently in sort of trans organizing, 0:59:52.600 --> 0:59:54.600 where like all the trans different groups of the city 0:59:54.640 --> 0:59:57.040 will be like, fuck it, we're showing up to a thing. Yeah, 0:59:57.360 --> 0:59:59.640 this is a different thing that we will be talking 1:00:00.000 --> 1:00:03.720 hopefully to some people who run this soon. This was 1:00:03.720 --> 1:00:05.720 originally supposedly part of this episode before I realized that 1:00:05.760 --> 1:00:08.160 it was impossible to fit this into this episode, which 1:00:08.200 --> 1:00:10.840 is had two episodes. But there's a really really cool 1:00:10.880 --> 1:00:13.080 thing in Portland that was called the Trans General Assembly, 1:00:13.680 --> 1:00:15.959 where they people were just like fuck it, were running 1:00:15.960 --> 1:00:18.240 a general assembly for like all of the trans people come. 1:00:18.320 --> 1:00:20.120 You can say things and everyone meets at the end, 1:00:20.160 --> 1:00:22.840 and that was awesome. But you can do this on 1:00:22.920 --> 1:00:26.240 a very very on a targeted level with like Okay, 1:00:26.360 --> 1:00:28.760 I know a bunch of different orgs that like, for example, okay, 1:00:28.760 --> 1:00:30.840 we need we need to coordinate a response to like 1:00:31.440 --> 1:00:34.400 the situation of trans people in the US. Yeah, So 1:00:34.760 --> 1:00:37.040 you can go through all of your networks. You can 1:00:37.080 --> 1:00:38.960 be like, okay, I know this person who is in 1:00:39.080 --> 1:00:40.920 this org that does this thing right, and you can 1:00:40.960 --> 1:00:44.320 bring all of those resources together and then you can 1:00:44.760 --> 1:00:47.600 turn that into a spokes council. That's not quite the 1:00:47.680 --> 1:00:50.919 same thing exactly as as the kind of like direct 1:00:50.960 --> 1:00:53.000 actions spokes constles that have been organized. 1:00:52.760 --> 1:00:55.280 Right, it is closer to a general assembly maybe, but 1:00:55.360 --> 1:00:58.040 maybe that's a pedantic difference or semantic difference. 1:00:58.200 --> 1:01:01.040 Yeah, it kind of is, but it's well, so okay. 1:01:01.040 --> 1:01:03.440 The way I've been conceiving of it is like, if 1:01:03.480 --> 1:01:07.280 you're specifically getting people together who are there as organizations, 1:01:07.320 --> 1:01:09.920 it's a spokes council. Yeah, totally. If they're there as themselves, 1:01:09.960 --> 1:01:12.240 it's a general assembly. Oh that makes sense, even even 1:01:12.280 --> 1:01:13.800 if they are sort of like representing a thing. But 1:01:13.920 --> 1:01:17.520 like yeah, like like the scopes and who shows up 1:01:17.560 --> 1:01:20.080 to them were very different, I think. Oh, and there's 1:01:20.080 --> 1:01:22.800 also fishballs. Well, what's a fishball? Actually, I've heard this 1:01:22.800 --> 1:01:23.160 one before. 1:01:23.520 --> 1:01:25.720 A fish bull is a spokes council where everyone can 1:01:25.840 --> 1:01:29.120 come and only the spoke can speak. Hm, so you 1:01:29.160 --> 1:01:31.919 can look in on the fish Oh that's what that's called. 1:01:32.040 --> 1:01:35.400 Interesting Okay, Yeah, anyway, which is a way to do it. 1:01:35.440 --> 1:01:38.600 It maintains transparency. It's a way to have a still 1:01:38.640 --> 1:01:41.360 open meeting, but only but if only one person from 1:01:41.400 --> 1:01:43.200 the group has empowered to speak, then it's not a 1:01:43.440 --> 1:01:46.320 nightmare of trying to have six thousand people in a 1:01:46.400 --> 1:01:47.200 room talk. 1:01:58.240 --> 1:02:01.120 The basic beating technology all these things can be used 1:02:01.240 --> 1:02:02.720 for a whole bunch of different things in a whole 1:02:02.720 --> 1:02:04.800 bunch of different ways that like we haven't thought of yet. 1:02:05.520 --> 1:02:07.720 You could arrange trash pick up in a neighborhood. You 1:02:07.840 --> 1:02:12.040 can make the government obsolete with meetings and spokes councils 1:02:12.120 --> 1:02:15.960 and general assemblies and federations and all of these levels 1:02:15.960 --> 1:02:18.480 of bottom up organizing. And there are places in the 1:02:18.480 --> 1:02:19.440 world where people have done this. 1:02:19.800 --> 1:02:21.880 Yeah. And you know, if we want to close on 1:02:22.000 --> 1:02:25.360 sort of like this is the political angle of this, right, 1:02:25.520 --> 1:02:29.920 Like a free society is one that is structured like this, 1:02:30.760 --> 1:02:33.640 where a bunch of where things happen by people coming 1:02:33.680 --> 1:02:36.160 together to do them. Yeah. Right, And you can take 1:02:36.240 --> 1:02:38.440 the sort of like I don't know, I guess you'd 1:02:38.440 --> 1:02:41.000 call it the workerri'st angle of like I don't know, 1:02:41.200 --> 1:02:44.280 we need to run a waste treatment plant, yeah right. 1:02:44.760 --> 1:02:46.520 So the way the race treatment plant is run is 1:02:46.560 --> 1:02:49.560 that the people who do waste treatment have their own 1:02:49.680 --> 1:02:53.120 like workers counselor or whatever, and they decide how they're 1:02:53.120 --> 1:02:55.080 going to do it and they go do it. Right. 1:02:55.640 --> 1:02:59.960 Almost every I would say, every real revolution and revolution 1:03:00.040 --> 1:03:03.960 utionary movement in history is doing a version of this. 1:03:04.480 --> 1:03:09.040 You can even look at the Soviet concept. The Soviet 1:03:09.280 --> 1:03:12.000 was the decision making body, it was the assembly and 1:03:12.640 --> 1:03:15.800 all power to the Soviets with this slogan that literally 1:03:15.920 --> 1:03:20.080 was inverted by the Bolsheviks, where the entire idea was 1:03:20.520 --> 1:03:25.840 a democratic but revolutionary movement. And this happens constantly even 1:03:25.880 --> 1:03:29.320 when societies break down on some level naturally and a 1:03:29.560 --> 1:03:33.800 ton not all, a ton of indigenous societies, this is 1:03:33.920 --> 1:03:36.800 the default model. And so you know in Chiapas with 1:03:36.880 --> 1:03:39.440 the Zapatistas, what happened was is that you had this 1:03:39.560 --> 1:03:41.600 like Marxist Leninist army and they were like, oh, we're 1:03:41.600 --> 1:03:43.120 going to do this thing this way, and the indigenous 1:03:43.120 --> 1:03:44.600 people who lived in Chapas were like, that's not how 1:03:44.640 --> 1:03:45.080 we do things. 1:03:45.400 --> 1:03:46.680 And they're like, this is how we do things. 1:03:46.720 --> 1:03:49.360 And then those Appatistas, who are good people, were like, 1:03:49.560 --> 1:03:51.800 you're right, that's how we do things, you know, and 1:03:51.880 --> 1:03:53.600 they like built up this model. And you have a 1:03:53.640 --> 1:03:57.040 similar thing happening with the area called Rojeva in north 1:03:57.080 --> 1:03:59.560 east Syria, where like basically people were like, actually, the 1:03:59.600 --> 1:04:02.560 indigenous Kurdish model of doing things is much more this 1:04:02.760 --> 1:04:05.120 egalitarian method and democratic method. 1:04:05.280 --> 1:04:05.760 And then okay. 1:04:05.800 --> 1:04:06.920 And the other thing is you can do it in 1:04:06.960 --> 1:04:09.480 the workers's model, but there's also people who've messed around 1:04:09.520 --> 1:04:11.520 with it and done things like you know what, maybe 1:04:11.600 --> 1:04:14.800 the school isn't run by the teachers. Maybe the school 1:04:14.880 --> 1:04:16.720 is run by the teachers, the parents and the students, 1:04:17.120 --> 1:04:20.680 you know. And maybe the food distribution center is a 1:04:20.840 --> 1:04:24.600 combination of the workers of the food distribution center and 1:04:24.800 --> 1:04:26.680 the people who make use of it. So maybe the 1:04:26.800 --> 1:04:30.360 trash pickup is both the workers and the people who 1:04:30.480 --> 1:04:34.040 need the services. But the specifics almost they do matter, 1:04:34.120 --> 1:04:36.440 and we can but we don't know. We don't know 1:04:36.520 --> 1:04:40.800 the actual formulation. But this is the core of bottom 1:04:41.120 --> 1:04:45.240 left organizing and it is a beautiful thing. And it 1:04:45.320 --> 1:04:46.880 is funny how it all comes down to meetings and 1:04:46.960 --> 1:04:50.320 making sure that there's food and childcare and not one 1:04:50.360 --> 1:04:52.520 person taking up all the time, which is really hard 1:04:52.520 --> 1:04:53.520 when you podcast for a living. 1:04:53.600 --> 1:04:55.960 I will tell you that. Yeah, but this is like, 1:04:56.000 --> 1:04:57.320 you know, I have had to learn to shut the 1:04:57.320 --> 1:04:59.800 fuck up in meetings. Yeah, me to, but doing it 1:05:00.000 --> 1:05:02.360 has made meetings better. It's great. You can learn to 1:05:02.400 --> 1:05:04.200 shut the fuck up. Someone else says the thing and 1:05:04.280 --> 1:05:06.480 you don't have to say yeah. But then also, I 1:05:06.520 --> 1:05:08.120 do want to put this out right, the things that 1:05:08.200 --> 1:05:11.000 we're describing here, Right, it's okay, like how do you 1:05:11.080 --> 1:05:13.280 do to beat or you need food, you need child care, 1:05:13.360 --> 1:05:15.640 you need structure that make sure one person isn't running 1:05:15.680 --> 1:05:18.600 the thing. This is the entire political situation of the 1:05:18.640 --> 1:05:21.360 modern United States, right. We are trying to get food, 1:05:21.400 --> 1:05:23.480 we are trying to get childcare, we are trying to 1:05:23.520 --> 1:05:25.320 have a place to do our thing, and we're trying 1:05:25.360 --> 1:05:29.720 to have to not be ruled by like a fucking king. Totally. Again, 1:05:29.840 --> 1:05:32.520 this all seems like very very basic, like shit, right, 1:05:32.880 --> 1:05:35.160 But if you don't have this, and this is a 1:05:35.200 --> 1:05:37.880 problem that the US has constantly, your protest movements, it's 1:05:37.920 --> 1:05:42.800 like most Americans don't have a democratic tradition, right, and 1:05:42.960 --> 1:05:46.360 so when shit happens and there's suddenly riots and they're 1:05:46.360 --> 1:05:49.280 suddenly like mass protest movements break out, Right, people don't 1:05:49.360 --> 1:05:51.680 know how to make democratic decisions, so they don't, right, 1:05:52.000 --> 1:05:53.960 and that means that nobody's talking to each other. That 1:05:54.040 --> 1:05:57.640 means that everyone is locked in these very small circles 1:05:57.680 --> 1:06:02.920 of extremely violent paranoia. That sucks. And we can avoid 1:06:03.000 --> 1:06:07.640 that by knowing how to do democracy. Because that's fundamentally 1:06:08.640 --> 1:06:13.160 what running and meeting is. This is what democracy looks like. Yeah, 1:06:13.320 --> 1:06:15.880 And I also want to say one more thing. This 1:06:16.040 --> 1:06:18.200 is a podcast and would that would probably could I 1:06:18.280 --> 1:06:20.760 could have used the facilitator, especially on my end right now, 1:06:20.880 --> 1:06:24.200 because unmedicated mia is a fucking trip. But like you know, 1:06:24.520 --> 1:06:26.600 when we talk about sort of are how do you 1:06:26.640 --> 1:06:28.880 apply this to your sort of broad vision of society? 1:06:28.960 --> 1:06:29.080 Right? 1:06:29.080 --> 1:06:31.560 And it's like, okay, anarchists, how do you run USAID? 1:06:32.280 --> 1:06:32.400 Right? 1:06:32.520 --> 1:06:34.680 Because like, yeah, like the destructure of USAID is going 1:06:34.680 --> 1:06:36.560 to kill an unbelievable number of people because people are 1:06:36.680 --> 1:06:40.880 getting HIV vaccines right right. And the way you run 1:06:41.000 --> 1:06:42.600 that is the way that you run a meeting. 1:06:42.880 --> 1:06:43.000 Right. 1:06:43.160 --> 1:06:46.960 The workers who produce ye to act, who are the 1:06:47.000 --> 1:06:51.560 people who actually figure out how to make an HIV vaccine, 1:06:52.240 --> 1:06:56.080 distribute it, distribute information about it. Those people form fucking 1:06:56.320 --> 1:06:59.600 form fucking councils, and they form fucking meeting groups. They 1:06:59.720 --> 1:07:02.640 and they work in collaboration with the people who need them, 1:07:03.200 --> 1:07:05.640 and that is how you build a society, right. It's 1:07:05.640 --> 1:07:07.840 like David Gabor's thing was was like the ultimate hidden 1:07:07.880 --> 1:07:09.440 truth of this world is that it is something we 1:07:09.600 --> 1:07:12.240 make and we could just as easily make differently. And 1:07:12.400 --> 1:07:15.080 when he says something we make, he was talking about 1:07:15.160 --> 1:07:17.240 in a more abstract sense, but like we do literally 1:07:17.360 --> 1:07:20.160 make it. Like all of this stuff is the product 1:07:20.200 --> 1:07:23.080 of stuff that we did, right, Like we all physically 1:07:23.400 --> 1:07:27.480 built every aspect of this world, right, everything, Everything that 1:07:27.560 --> 1:07:30.200 you see and touch and hear right now are things 1:07:30.280 --> 1:07:33.640 that we designed and engineered and built. And we don't 1:07:33.680 --> 1:07:37.080 lose the capacity when we cease to be ruled. We 1:07:37.160 --> 1:07:38.720 can still do that. And as long as we have 1:07:39.600 --> 1:07:42.160 the ability to do democracy right and we have the 1:07:42.200 --> 1:07:45.160 ability to make decisions with each other, we can fucking 1:07:45.280 --> 1:07:47.160 do those things. And we can do them for each 1:07:47.200 --> 1:07:49.040 other and not for a king. 1:07:49.560 --> 1:07:51.880 Yeah, It's like people ask, how would you make a 1:07:51.920 --> 1:07:56.000 distributed insulin in anarchist society or an anti capitalist society 1:07:56.120 --> 1:07:58.960 or a bottom up society, And you're like, well, we 1:07:59.160 --> 1:08:01.400 know how to make and distribute insulin, and we just 1:08:01.520 --> 1:08:04.840 need to change some of the social technologies that are 1:08:04.920 --> 1:08:06.840 doing it. And I think we could probably do it 1:08:06.920 --> 1:08:11.480 better because it's currently not working great, you know. And 1:08:12.600 --> 1:08:14.160 my other like go to quote I love the graver 1:08:14.280 --> 1:08:17.280 quote is the Derudi quote anarchist general in Spanish of war. 1:08:17.720 --> 1:08:20.719 Probably didn't actually say this. It was probably a journalist 1:08:20.800 --> 1:08:23.120 put these words in his mouth, but we're not actually certain. 1:08:23.560 --> 1:08:26.040 And he says like the boot I'm paraphrasing the BOUCHOAISI 1:08:26.120 --> 1:08:29.000 can blast and ruin the world on their way out 1:08:29.040 --> 1:08:32.920 of history. That's fine. Yeah, we the workers built all 1:08:33.000 --> 1:08:36.680 of these cities. We can build, we know how to 1:08:36.840 --> 1:08:37.160 do that. 1:08:37.640 --> 1:08:39.080 The part of that always stuck with me is like, 1:08:39.120 --> 1:08:41.640 I think the exact quote that I got was we 1:08:41.720 --> 1:08:43.479 are not in the least afraid of ruins. 1:08:43.680 --> 1:08:43.880 Yeah. 1:08:44.080 --> 1:08:48.000 Ever, the ones who built this world and we'll do 1:08:48.080 --> 1:08:51.600 it again. Yeah and yeah. So I don't know. 1:08:51.760 --> 1:08:53.679 I don't know these these episodes are gonna be called. 1:08:53.720 --> 1:08:57.479 But if they're called, the answer as meetings comma, Sorry, 1:08:57.840 --> 1:08:58.360 I think. 1:08:59.400 --> 1:09:00.840 Okay, I don't know who is good end to be 1:09:00.960 --> 1:09:04.280 the provisional title right now is the most important organizing skill? 1:09:04.320 --> 1:09:07.080 You don't know, because unfortunately we do need people to 1:09:07.120 --> 1:09:09.120 click on this and they won't. If it's a meaning 1:09:09.240 --> 1:09:10.400 things as. 1:09:12.240 --> 1:09:14.240 Well, then that's the monster at the end of the book, 1:09:14.360 --> 1:09:16.439 is that, Uh, it's meetings all the way down. 1:09:17.800 --> 1:09:21.120 Yeah, Margaret, thanks for thanks for talking with me about 1:09:21.640 --> 1:09:26.720 the actual fundamental building blocks and tools of democratic life. 1:09:27.400 --> 1:09:27.639 Yeah. 1:09:28.080 --> 1:09:29.800 Thanks, thanks for having me and thanks for talking about 1:09:29.800 --> 1:09:32.240 this stuff. Yeah, and this has been It can happen here. 1:09:32.640 --> 1:09:34.519 You can go out in your community and you can 1:09:34.880 --> 1:09:36.880 do these things. You can force pos councils, you can 1:09:36.960 --> 1:09:41.240 form assemblies, you can go work with the people around 1:09:41.280 --> 1:09:43.000 you to do things, and you can use structures to 1:09:43.080 --> 1:09:46.559 do it, and you can change the world. The secret 1:09:46.640 --> 1:09:47.240 is to really begin. 1:09:47.880 --> 1:10:13.479 Hell yeah, ah, welcome back to It could happen here. 1:10:13.800 --> 1:10:18.599 A podcast that is normally about the terrors, but today 1:10:19.080 --> 1:10:22.400 today we're talking about I mean, technically still the terrors, 1:10:22.680 --> 1:10:25.080 but we're talking about a more fun part of the terrors. 1:10:25.240 --> 1:10:28.599 We're talking about the liver King. Thank God, Thank God. 1:10:30.400 --> 1:10:33.960 Gods and kings, two things we famously appreciate on this podcast. 1:10:34.680 --> 1:10:38.240 With me today is James Stout and Meil Wong. What 1:10:38.360 --> 1:10:41.080 do y'all know about the liver King? I thought you 1:10:41.120 --> 1:10:42.439 were gonna give us cool titles. 1:10:42.520 --> 1:10:44.360 Just if we could just go back and you could 1:10:44.400 --> 1:10:47.600 each give us some kind of some kind of nobility 1:10:47.840 --> 1:10:48.920 and of food stuff. 1:10:49.360 --> 1:10:55.000 Yeah, sure, James, you are the tea leaf salad that 1:10:55.120 --> 1:10:56.559 made you really say that one time. 1:10:56.680 --> 1:10:58.680 King's true. 1:11:00.240 --> 1:11:02.360 I think that Tea leave settle room me Atina. 1:11:02.720 --> 1:11:04.280 Yeah, it's good to him. 1:11:04.320 --> 1:11:05.840 It made me subject. 1:11:08.280 --> 1:11:10.200 And I you know, you and I haven'ty and a lot. 1:11:10.160 --> 1:11:12.160 Of meals together. We need to do more of that, right, 1:11:12.200 --> 1:11:13.760 we need to do more of that. You're the You're 1:11:13.800 --> 1:11:16.000 the I have not eaten many meals with me yet, 1:11:16.160 --> 1:11:21.040 but hopefully will Queen. Incredible, incredible, incredible. Now, the Liver 1:11:21.240 --> 1:11:23.559 King is the King of liver, as you're all, I'm 1:11:23.640 --> 1:11:26.160 certain well aware, and I did. 1:11:26.200 --> 1:11:27.000 We did a bastards. 1:11:27.080 --> 1:11:29.400 This was a live episode I did a couple of 1:11:29.520 --> 1:11:32.960 years ago with doctor cave Hoda. And in case you're 1:11:33.000 --> 1:11:34.920 not aware, the Liver King is a guy who like 1:11:35.040 --> 1:11:37.559 three two or three years ago started to get really 1:11:37.600 --> 1:11:41.280 famous very suddenly and obtained millions of followers I think 1:11:41.360 --> 1:11:44.160 up to like six at one point on Instagram. 1:11:44.400 --> 1:11:45.960 By getting super jacked. 1:11:46.000 --> 1:11:48.519 He was this huge, shredded guy, or he's not he's 1:11:48.520 --> 1:11:50.760 not actually very tall, but he was shredded and he 1:11:50.800 --> 1:11:54.559 would He was always perpetually shirtless, usually wearing very little 1:11:54.960 --> 1:11:58.240 and talking about his different primal rules how mainly you 1:11:58.360 --> 1:12:02.080 need to eat nothing but liver and testicles, often raw, 1:12:02.640 --> 1:12:04.320 and that's all you need to do in order to 1:12:04.400 --> 1:12:07.080 get huge. That and then you can just lift hundreds 1:12:07.080 --> 1:12:10.600 and hundreds of pounds and you'll get swollen and gigantic. 1:12:11.000 --> 1:12:14.120 Totally natty because we're just we're supposed to eat like 1:12:14.280 --> 1:12:18.080 primal cavemen who only ate testicles and livers. Enough the 1:12:18.160 --> 1:12:21.559 rest now accepting the how none of this is accurate. 1:12:21.680 --> 1:12:24.680 It came out very soon after that because the liver King, 1:12:24.800 --> 1:12:27.800 prior to becoming the liver King, had been a series 1:12:27.880 --> 1:12:30.519 of petty grifters of lower nobility and had written an 1:12:30.560 --> 1:12:32.519 email to a guy who was like an expert on 1:12:33.160 --> 1:12:37.040 performance enhancing drugs, asking like what kind of regiment he 1:12:37.120 --> 1:12:38.880 could take in order to get the size that he 1:12:38.920 --> 1:12:41.360 eventually became. Anyway, it came out that he's been spending 1:12:41.400 --> 1:12:43.840 like thirteen thousand dollars a month on steroids like that. 1:12:44.000 --> 1:12:46.280 That's how he got huge. It's not the testicles, it's 1:12:46.320 --> 1:12:48.960 not the livers. It's not these absurd videos of him 1:12:49.040 --> 1:12:51.840 eating different organ meats or making his kids eat different 1:12:51.960 --> 1:12:56.200 organ meats. It's not his his weird workout tactics. It's 1:12:56.240 --> 1:12:59.040 the fact that he's taking thirteen thousand dollars worth of 1:12:59.080 --> 1:12:59.639 gear a month. 1:12:59.760 --> 1:13:00.640 Right now. 1:13:00.680 --> 1:13:02.400 One of the first people to call him out before 1:13:02.479 --> 1:13:05.200 this came out was Joe Rogan who saw the And 1:13:05.439 --> 1:13:07.360 you know, I'll give Joe Rogan credit for one thing. 1:13:07.400 --> 1:13:13.439 He knows when someone's on steroids. Yeah, So Joe. 1:13:13.320 --> 1:13:15.360 Rogan had called him out initially, being like, there's no 1:13:15.439 --> 1:13:18.280 way this guy's natural, right, Like, he's taking fucking steroids. 1:13:18.320 --> 1:13:21.200 It's very obvious now, to be fair, everyone knew that 1:13:21.400 --> 1:13:23.839 because it's very like, I don't. 1:13:23.680 --> 1:13:26.040 Know shit about steroids. And I looked at that guy, 1:13:26.400 --> 1:13:28.479 like his belly button pushes out. 1:13:29.520 --> 1:13:33.960 Yes, isn't like Robert's not talking about an AUTI no, No, 1:13:34.200 --> 1:13:36.040 I'm talking about it's. 1:13:35.920 --> 1:13:38.920 A Gulf bowl. So it's protrusion, like the Organs are 1:13:38.960 --> 1:13:42.479 trying to escape. This man is so clearly eighty percent 1:13:42.560 --> 1:13:47.400 steroids volume. That is the highest volume of steroids to 1:13:47.479 --> 1:13:49.200 body mass that has ever existent. 1:13:49.439 --> 1:13:53.280 Yeah, it's nuts stuff. So he lost a shitload of 1:13:53.360 --> 1:13:56.000 his followers and he's still got like three million on Instagram, 1:13:56.080 --> 1:13:57.840 but his videos, he's lucky to get a couple of 1:13:57.920 --> 1:14:01.800 thousand like likes and share these days on an Instagram video. 1:14:01.960 --> 1:14:04.080 And you know, before that all came out, he was 1:14:04.120 --> 1:14:06.120 doing much more he had to do Ama Kolpa. He 1:14:06.200 --> 1:14:08.800 claims he's all natty now and he has just over 1:14:08.800 --> 1:14:11.160 the last couple of years, just continually degraded. 1:14:11.320 --> 1:14:11.640 Right now. 1:14:11.720 --> 1:14:13.920 This guy's business, which he made millions doing, or one 1:14:13.960 --> 1:14:18.200 of his businesses was selling different supplements. He's very expensive supplements. 1:14:18.720 --> 1:14:20.519 And he's built kind of a little cult at his 1:14:20.640 --> 1:14:25.439 compound in Texas around you know, listening to fucking dance 1:14:25.560 --> 1:14:28.080 music from the mid aunts a lot of like Mike 1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:33.240 Posnor remixes and weird shit rands about being a caveman 1:14:33.880 --> 1:14:39.000 and like pulling trapped your equipment and shit. He likes 1:14:39.080 --> 1:14:41.519 to always walk around with fucking a with a plate 1:14:41.600 --> 1:14:45.000 carrier on which he calls his exoskeleton in order to like, 1:14:45.240 --> 1:14:47.160 you know, build up muscle. 1:14:46.920 --> 1:14:51.439 Mass or whatever. And anyway, he's he's continually. 1:14:51.040 --> 1:14:53.240 Degenerated to the point where those of us who call 1:14:53.280 --> 1:14:56.080 ourselves liver king watchers have all kind of been saying 1:14:56.120 --> 1:14:58.559 for a while now, Oh, he's not just on gear anymore, 1:14:58.760 --> 1:15:01.080 like he's doing he's he he's doing other drugs and 1:15:01.160 --> 1:15:03.400 they have had they are really having a negative effect 1:15:03.479 --> 1:15:06.080 on his mental health. Yeah, he doesn't seem well, He 1:15:06.200 --> 1:15:08.200 does not seem well, so I'm gonna put a video 1:15:08.280 --> 1:15:10.200 play video on. This is a video that started at all. 1:15:10.280 --> 1:15:14.639 He started a couple of weeks ago, increasingly threatening Joe Rogan. 1:15:14.920 --> 1:15:17.160 And he doesn't live that far away from Austin. He 1:15:17.280 --> 1:15:19.360 started posting a series of videos trying to threaten Joe 1:15:19.439 --> 1:15:21.000 Rogan to a fight, and I'm gonna I'm gonna post 1:15:21.040 --> 1:15:22.600 to you the one. This is kind of like the 1:15:22.680 --> 1:15:25.519 key video that gets this series of events started. It's 1:15:25.560 --> 1:15:28.479 the video that is the inciting incident video for everything 1:15:28.520 --> 1:15:30.800 that's happening now, right, So that's that's what I'm gonna 1:15:30.800 --> 1:15:34.479 play for you guys. You see the Instagram. Okay, So 1:15:34.880 --> 1:15:37.560 in this video, listeners, you're gonna hear him talk. In 1:15:37.640 --> 1:15:41.639 this video, he's got again like music playing in the background. 1:15:41.680 --> 1:15:45.800 He's wearing a badly taxidermide wolfhead that's like a cap 1:15:46.200 --> 1:15:47.599 over his icular head. 1:15:49.680 --> 1:15:49.960 It's like. 1:15:53.520 --> 1:15:54.280 He's shirtless. 1:15:54.360 --> 1:15:57.559 He's wearing shorts and as one user noted in the comments, 1:15:57.640 --> 1:16:00.160 his pants are vibrating as he talks and he is 1:16:00.200 --> 1:16:03.240 carrying in each hand. He has a gold plated AR 1:16:03.360 --> 1:16:06.560 fifteen shirt barreled rifle with a fucking. 1:16:06.320 --> 1:16:09.920 Blast for yes, in my entire life. I have never 1:16:10.040 --> 1:16:13.599 seen a man look less intimidating well, holding a gun, 1:16:13.800 --> 1:16:17.200 wearing a wolf pelt. Two guns, Man, two guns, the 1:16:17.280 --> 1:16:21.160 second gun. Two guns. Yeah, holy ship, you blunder buds. 1:16:21.320 --> 1:16:25.760 Those are two gold plated AR fifteen SBRs. 1:16:25.479 --> 1:16:28.320 With a gold eotech on talking in case he hadn't 1:16:28.320 --> 1:16:29.120 spent enough money. 1:16:29.240 --> 1:16:31.680 Yeah, yeah, and I think a gold wood on the other. 1:16:31.840 --> 1:16:35.240 So anyway, I'm gonna listen to this man, Joe Rogan, 1:16:35.280 --> 1:16:36.280 I'm calling you out. 1:16:36.560 --> 1:16:40.400 My name is Leberty Man to man, I'm picking a 1:16:40.479 --> 1:16:45.519 fight with you. Yeah, I have still training. If you 1:16:45.680 --> 1:16:48.920 just to your black belt, you should just man tell me. 1:16:50.240 --> 1:16:54.040 But I'm picking a fight with you. Fund rule. Whatever 1:16:54.080 --> 1:16:57.439 you want me to wait, I'll wait. I'll wait one night, 1:16:57.760 --> 1:17:03.280 this morning, I'll wait. I'm you whenever you're ready, whenever 1:17:03.320 --> 1:17:05.360 you're ready to go at my brains. 1:17:10.960 --> 1:17:19.120 And then he get starts dancing, So I'm on a 1:17:19.280 --> 1:17:23.280 vibration blate. By the way, that's a healthy man. That's 1:17:23.280 --> 1:17:25.280 a guy who's doing well. Right, we can all agree. 1:17:25.360 --> 1:17:26.439 It's a literally buzzy. 1:17:27.600 --> 1:17:30.880 I saw a video one time where someone was reacting 1:17:30.920 --> 1:17:33.680 to a Drake video and his response was those are 1:17:33.720 --> 1:17:36.320 the least intimidating goons I've ever seen in my entire life. 1:17:36.560 --> 1:17:39.120 And that is the entire vibe of watching him trying 1:17:39.200 --> 1:17:43.840 to like brain a place. It's something else, it's it's 1:17:44.000 --> 1:17:46.479 it is special. Uh, it is special. 1:17:46.560 --> 1:17:49.200 And if you couldn't quite make out the audio over whatever, 1:17:49.240 --> 1:17:51.280 the fuck that music was what he says, and that 1:17:51.400 --> 1:17:53.640 is Joe Rogan. I'm calling you out. My name's Liver King, 1:17:53.760 --> 1:17:55.360 man the man. I'm picking a fight with you. I 1:17:55.439 --> 1:17:57.519 have no training in jiu jitsu. You're a black belt. 1:17:57.520 --> 1:17:59.599 You should just dismantle me. But I'm picking a fight 1:17:59.680 --> 1:17:59.840 with you. 1:18:00.040 --> 1:18:01.960 Your rules. I'll come to you whenever you're ready. 1:18:02.920 --> 1:18:06.720 Holding the AARs does give that a slightly slightly more 1:18:06.840 --> 1:18:08.000 terroristic threatn vibe? 1:18:08.120 --> 1:18:10.519 Right, why are the ars? 1:18:10.800 --> 1:18:12.680 Because he goes on to say at another post, you 1:18:12.800 --> 1:18:15.120 never come across something like this willing to die, hoping 1:18:15.160 --> 1:18:17.639 that you'll choke me out, because that's a dream come true, 1:18:17.880 --> 1:18:19.000 which makes it sound. 1:18:18.880 --> 1:18:23.360 Like a sex thing. Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes 1:18:23.400 --> 1:18:24.599 it sound like a sex thing. 1:18:25.439 --> 1:18:25.639 Yeah. 1:18:26.760 --> 1:18:28.479 He closed out Pride months so. 1:18:28.920 --> 1:18:31.160 This video comes out and then Liver King starts making 1:18:31.200 --> 1:18:34.719 a series of videos in Austin, Right, he drives to Austin. 1:18:34.760 --> 1:18:36.680 He's making videos on the way. He makes videos when 1:18:36.680 --> 1:18:38.519 he gets there, and he keeps saying he wants to 1:18:38.560 --> 1:18:41.840 fight Joe Rogan. Now he's just saying he wants to 1:18:41.960 --> 1:18:42.439 fight him. 1:18:42.680 --> 1:18:43.200 Right, He's not. 1:18:43.280 --> 1:18:45.160 Saying I'm going to kill you. He's not saying like 1:18:45.200 --> 1:18:47.519 I'm going to assault you. He's like he's asking for 1:18:47.600 --> 1:18:50.439 a consensual fight. But he's also posing with weapons, and 1:18:50.479 --> 1:18:53.200 he has now traveled to Austin and he's clearly unwell. 1:18:53.680 --> 1:18:56.120 So Joe Rogan has a security team. He's got a 1:18:56.160 --> 1:18:58.679 bunch of like former operators and shit that he pays 1:18:59.000 --> 1:19:02.360 to watch over his security and whatnot and sometimes go 1:19:02.479 --> 1:19:05.760 on his podcast if I'm not mistaken, And they do 1:19:05.920 --> 1:19:08.400 their job, which is, oh, there's a guy threatening our boss, 1:19:08.840 --> 1:19:11.280 holding guns and photos and he's traveled to Austin. 1:19:11.560 --> 1:19:14.400 We'll probably call the cops, which probably do something about this. 1:19:16.200 --> 1:19:17.240 So they give. 1:19:17.120 --> 1:19:19.280 A call to the police and they're like, hey, we 1:19:19.439 --> 1:19:22.799 consider this to be like numerous threats, right, he's traveled 1:19:22.800 --> 1:19:25.320 to Austin, Like this seems like a guy who might 1:19:25.439 --> 1:19:27.519 actually act seriously on his threats. 1:19:27.960 --> 1:19:28.920 We're concerned about this. 1:19:29.040 --> 1:19:31.160 So the police wind up talking to Joe Rogan himself, 1:19:31.280 --> 1:19:34.919 and Rogan says, yeah, I was, you know, my security 1:19:34.960 --> 1:19:38.280 team told me about this. I consider these to be threats, like, 1:19:39.040 --> 1:19:40.880 and I'm willing to file a police report. 1:19:41.040 --> 1:19:41.120 Right. 1:19:41.640 --> 1:19:44.360 He tells the police that Brian Johnson has a drug issue, 1:19:44.439 --> 1:19:47.920 which is, again it's weird to be like, yeah, Joe 1:19:48.000 --> 1:19:51.479 Rogan so far not wrong about an AFIS, And he's like, 1:19:51.560 --> 1:19:55.200 he's unstable, he probably needs help, which again probably accurate. Right, 1:19:55.360 --> 1:19:58.040 I don't think I don't think there's much to argue 1:19:58.120 --> 1:20:01.599 with here. So the police side these crossed the line 1:20:01.640 --> 1:20:04.880 into terroristic threats and they file charges. The Liver King 1:20:05.160 --> 1:20:09.320 is arrested. He's not in jail long. He's released within 1:20:09.360 --> 1:20:12.519 a day on twenty thousand dollars bond. There's a restraining order. 1:20:12.560 --> 1:20:15.160 He's not allowed to have guns anymore for a while. 1:20:15.439 --> 1:20:18.559 He's got to stay two hundred yards away from Rogan. 1:20:19.400 --> 1:20:21.760 So the Liver King does exactly what a guy like 1:20:21.840 --> 1:20:23.640 the you'd expect a guy like the Liver King to do, 1:20:23.880 --> 1:20:27.280 right in the wake of something like this happening, which is, 1:20:27.800 --> 1:20:30.960 he immediately gets out of jail and starts making more videos. 1:20:31.200 --> 1:20:34.519 Right of course, Yeah, from his hotel room in Austin. 1:20:35.040 --> 1:20:37.360 And again, these are just the videos of a really 1:20:37.439 --> 1:20:41.479 healthy guy who's doing well, whose brain is not has 1:20:41.560 --> 1:20:44.880 not liquefied, and isn't coming out of his ears, just 1:20:44.960 --> 1:20:46.040 a man who seems healthy. 1:20:47.200 --> 1:20:48.240 Thank you for all the prayers. 1:20:48.280 --> 1:20:51.040 By the way, people praying for me, you should also 1:20:51.080 --> 1:20:51.799 pray for yourself. 1:20:51.880 --> 1:20:52.679 Pray for your family. 1:20:52.840 --> 1:20:54.920 Lock that down, fifth bump pound, lock it down. 1:20:54.920 --> 1:20:55.560 You should do all that. 1:20:56.320 --> 1:21:00.559 I am going to the Capitol. I'm already in the Capital, 1:21:00.680 --> 1:21:04.280 but We're going to like capital capital, the location, and 1:21:04.920 --> 1:21:08.320 I've been given the gift of a restraining order just recently. 1:21:09.360 --> 1:21:10.400 And so if. 1:21:10.280 --> 1:21:17.000 Anybody knows, if someone else whose first name rhymes with blow, 1:21:17.720 --> 1:21:19.439 whose last name is Rogan, I'm not. 1:21:19.520 --> 1:21:22.519 Allowed to say it for a copyright, I might sue 1:21:22.600 --> 1:21:26.040 you about it. I'm not allowed to laugh. I'll see 1:21:26.040 --> 1:21:27.479 you have put you in Joe on that one too. 1:21:27.920 --> 1:21:31.519 Okay, So first off, he starts this, he admits in 1:21:31.560 --> 1:21:33.880 another video he falls a little earlier, that he hasn't 1:21:33.880 --> 1:21:39.160 slept in days, and he hasn't been eating, and he 1:21:39.640 --> 1:21:40.920 is slurring his words. 1:21:40.960 --> 1:21:42.800 At the start of this. He is not well. 1:21:43.280 --> 1:21:45.280 I don't think he's sober but it could just be 1:21:45.400 --> 1:21:48.200 sleep deprivation and the fact that something else is awry 1:21:48.560 --> 1:21:50.400 and he's like going to the capitol. He says, he 1:21:50.439 --> 1:21:52.640 wants to go to the capital to like start a 1:21:52.760 --> 1:21:55.439 legal precedent. He says, Liver King v. Joe Rogan is 1:21:55.479 --> 1:21:57.439 going to be like one of the great legal battles 1:21:57.600 --> 1:22:02.840 of our centurion terms of setting press, what kind of 1:22:03.000 --> 1:22:06.920 resident it's gonna be the new dread Scott. I gotta 1:22:06.920 --> 1:22:10.160 play you guys another video from right after his arrest 1:22:10.280 --> 1:22:13.120 in terms of like seeing how well this man is doing. 1:22:13.760 --> 1:22:15.080 This is the one where he talks about having not 1:22:15.160 --> 1:22:17.679 slept the days. It's gonna zoom it on his eyes 1:22:18.040 --> 1:22:20.280 and I need you to look at his pupils, Okay, 1:22:20.840 --> 1:22:23.880 because this is this seems like a man who's had 1:22:23.920 --> 1:22:27.040 a serious head injury to me because his his one 1:22:27.080 --> 1:22:30.360 of his pupils is a very different size from the others. 1:22:31.640 --> 1:22:33.400 Good born in prime. 1:22:33.520 --> 1:22:38.120 Oh wow, from the Vibration play that the greatest home 1:22:38.320 --> 1:22:39.600 state in the world. 1:22:41.080 --> 1:22:42.639 Often Texas. 1:22:43.960 --> 1:22:44.880 Texas is the state. 1:22:45.000 --> 1:22:48.599 Just to be clear, bags under my eyes haven't slept 1:22:48.640 --> 1:22:53.080 a whole lot and it's been an amazing gift. 1:22:53.560 --> 1:22:57.000 Uh what do you what do you see there people 1:22:57.080 --> 1:22:58.040 with medical training. 1:22:58.320 --> 1:23:01.439 Yeah, the human I shouldn't do that. That is like, yeah, 1:23:01.439 --> 1:23:02.840 then I'm supposed to look like that. 1:23:03.000 --> 1:23:10.360 That's one of the bad side, like twenty times bigger 1:23:10.439 --> 1:23:12.360 than the other people. It's bad. 1:23:12.960 --> 1:23:15.920 Like it's if I cared about this man, I would 1:23:16.000 --> 1:23:18.080 get him to a hospital immediately. 1:23:18.560 --> 1:23:20.639 Yeah, And to be clear, I don't. 1:23:23.439 --> 1:23:26.559 I kind of wonder the liver a filtering organ, right, 1:23:26.960 --> 1:23:28.200 it takes the bad stuff out. 1:23:28.280 --> 1:23:30.439 I feel like if that's all you eat, you're going 1:23:30.520 --> 1:23:34.320 to concentrate the bad You're going to poisoning. She almost 1:23:34.360 --> 1:23:37.240 certainly did do someone like slip him a bear liver 1:23:37.439 --> 1:23:40.880 or something polar bear liver, Like what's going on here? Yeah? 1:23:41.040 --> 1:23:43.560 Yeah, yeah, he went up the food chain until he 1:23:43.920 --> 1:23:46.120 ate that wolf's liver and then put it on his head. 1:23:46.280 --> 1:23:46.479 Yeah. 1:23:47.040 --> 1:23:49.519 It's very unclear to me. Is he actually eating that 1:23:49.680 --> 1:23:52.240 much liver? Like there's videos where he does, but like 1:23:52.360 --> 1:23:55.000 on a daily basis. He's also taking gear, so maybe 1:23:55.040 --> 1:23:57.519 he has a normal diet in order to like, you know, 1:23:58.120 --> 1:24:00.720 outside of it and this is just for show. There's 1:24:00.760 --> 1:24:02.640 been a lot of feorizing about that and we just 1:24:02.760 --> 1:24:04.840 don't know. But either way, I think it's safe to 1:24:04.880 --> 1:24:07.800 say this is a sick man, right, this is not 1:24:07.960 --> 1:24:08.879 a well person. 1:24:09.800 --> 1:24:09.920 Yea. 1:24:10.040 --> 1:24:15.120 His Instagram comments are not helping. Just give this man 1:24:15.240 --> 1:24:20.240 a gun immediately. Keep trying to fight Joe Rogan. But 1:24:20.439 --> 1:24:22.599 I believe you can do it right now. 1:24:22.880 --> 1:24:25.640 If someone is putting out a casting call for deranged 1:24:25.720 --> 1:24:29.000 man and like profit in the desert, he looks exactly 1:24:29.160 --> 1:24:29.360 like that. 1:24:29.560 --> 1:24:33.160 Absolutely the incredible added before we went completely looks amazing. 1:24:33.320 --> 1:24:34.320 He looks incredible. 1:24:34.520 --> 1:24:38.920 Yeah, he's got like two fun his haism can like. 1:24:39.840 --> 1:24:40.920 He looks like if you know the. 1:24:40.960 --> 1:24:45.280 Mural of John Brown, John Brown is like joke, That's 1:24:45.400 --> 1:24:46.040 what he looks like. 1:24:46.360 --> 1:24:47.000 He does. 1:24:48.479 --> 1:24:49.240 Different vibes. 1:24:49.360 --> 1:24:53.400 Speaking of different vibes, let's change off the vibes and 1:24:53.479 --> 1:24:54.480 play some hands. 1:25:05.160 --> 1:25:05.880 And we're back. 1:25:06.080 --> 1:25:08.040 So, friends, I got to play you this next video, 1:25:08.200 --> 1:25:10.679 which is after he gets out of jail, he goes 1:25:10.720 --> 1:25:12.879 to the Capitol, And this is him going through security 1:25:12.960 --> 1:25:13.920 at the Capitol as. 1:25:13.880 --> 1:25:15.519 Best I can tell, and he is. 1:25:16.120 --> 1:25:20.680 He's wearing like fucking waiting length pants, like pants that 1:25:20.800 --> 1:25:22.880 cut off just below your knee, so like they're high 1:25:22.960 --> 1:25:26.400 water smoke pants. He's wearing like a sleeveless green hoodie. 1:25:26.400 --> 1:25:28.040 And he has the hood up over his head, and 1:25:28.160 --> 1:25:31.280 then he's wearing a plate carrier and he's trying to 1:25:35.000 --> 1:25:49.240 It's just it's just really funny. It's just two ladies 1:25:49.320 --> 1:25:52.000 and like security informs. They're letting him try to go through. 1:25:54.400 --> 1:25:55.960 And I think this proves that he's If he was 1:25:56.000 --> 1:25:58.160 wearing ceramic plates, I don't think it would set off 1:25:58.200 --> 1:26:01.240 the metal detective. He's got be wearing those cheap AR 1:26:01.360 --> 1:26:06.160 five hundred metal plates. While yeah, yeah, I mean it's possible. 1:26:06.280 --> 1:26:08.320 This doesn't look like just a weight vest. That looks 1:26:08.360 --> 1:26:10.720 like just a normal plate carrier, although it'syeah, it's a. 1:26:10.760 --> 1:26:11.800 Five eleven TAC Tech. 1:26:12.080 --> 1:26:14.479 Yeah, yeah, it looks like yeah, Carr, So I think 1:26:14.520 --> 1:26:16.559 you just got AAR five hundred plates in there. 1:26:17.160 --> 1:26:19.240 Of course, I mean they're probably just white plates. They 1:26:19.280 --> 1:26:20.519 may it may not even be a five. 1:26:20.720 --> 1:26:23.200 They may may not even be dying. He tells them 1:26:23.240 --> 1:26:25.280 it's his exoskeleton, so he has to keep it on. 1:26:25.520 --> 1:26:33.920 I don't think he gets in wearing this. Oh man, 1:26:34.120 --> 1:26:35.599 I love I love the liver cake. 1:26:36.200 --> 1:26:38.479 I was really not expecting him to turn into a lobster. 1:26:38.640 --> 1:26:40.080 But apparently that's where we're at. 1:26:40.200 --> 1:26:44.160 Now, that's where we're at Yeah, you're right, given his radness. 1:26:44.439 --> 1:26:47.320 So there's one more video from his time in Austin 1:26:47.400 --> 1:26:49.519 before we'll get back to the Liver King compound and 1:26:49.600 --> 1:26:52.760 see the liver Queen a little little oh no that 1:26:53.000 --> 1:26:53.760 that person is. 1:26:53.800 --> 1:26:55.880 Going through like the mental health equipment of the Q 1:26:56.120 --> 1:26:58.519 course right now, watching their one source of income. 1:27:01.280 --> 1:27:02.080 Yeah, I don't know. 1:27:03.200 --> 1:27:04.960 I have to hope if you're the liver queen, you 1:27:05.040 --> 1:27:07.920 have pretty good like insurance for the liver King. 1:27:08.800 --> 1:27:09.439 Yeah, you hope. 1:27:09.520 --> 1:27:12.439 So I don't know how long they've been living monarch together, 1:27:12.520 --> 1:27:15.400 whether she was with him before he went completely fucking bongers, or. 1:27:15.760 --> 1:27:18.519 I don't know how much time there was before that happened, 1:27:18.600 --> 1:27:22.840 to be honest. Was it an arranged marriage like previous monarchies. 1:27:24.000 --> 1:27:27.280 Yeah, she's actually from the Lung family, but they had 1:27:27.360 --> 1:27:31.680 to marry her off to forge alliance. I'm gonna have 1:27:31.760 --> 1:27:34.920 to demand that we watch is Lk's back vulnerable if 1:27:34.920 --> 1:27:39.560 he only stands to strike, because I need to see that. 1:27:40.360 --> 1:27:43.160 There's a lot of Liver King fighting videos, and okay, 1:27:43.720 --> 1:27:45.680 none of them are are all that impressive. 1:27:48.040 --> 1:27:50.200 So one way, he fights like a horse sized duck 1:27:50.360 --> 1:27:51.839 or one hundred duck sized horses. 1:27:51.960 --> 1:27:54.320 There's a video where he goes hunting with his kid 1:27:54.880 --> 1:27:57.280 and he's talking about how it's like a prival experience. 1:27:57.840 --> 1:28:00.200 But all that happens is he pays a guy to 1:28:00.200 --> 1:28:02.479 take him into the woods. It's like forty feet away 1:28:02.520 --> 1:28:04.760 from a deer, and then they just shoot the deer 1:28:05.760 --> 1:28:08.680 outside where his Native American guy is like, okay, you 1:28:08.760 --> 1:28:09.599 can shoot it now. 1:28:12.600 --> 1:28:17.000 It's really funny. It's pretty good. Okay what. 1:28:19.000 --> 1:28:22.400 He's just cram walking like a gorilla down like the 1:28:22.479 --> 1:28:23.519 hull of his hotel. 1:28:26.560 --> 1:28:28.360 It's beautiful stuff. It's good. 1:28:30.200 --> 1:28:30.519 Somebody. 1:28:30.640 --> 1:28:34.320 Now he's doing fake martial ice booths and it comes 1:28:34.360 --> 1:28:35.160 out of the duor straight. 1:28:35.240 --> 1:28:35.439 Yeah. 1:28:36.520 --> 1:28:38.519 Yeah, he's just turned his girl and crab walk that 1:28:38.600 --> 1:28:41.120 he does is like fist pump. He has like a 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:46.479 little chant that he makes people say, lock it down. 1:28:48.880 --> 1:28:51.000 He pays to me wearing an ankle monitor. Yeah, he 1:28:51.160 --> 1:28:53.680 is wearing an ankle monitor. Yes, that's my favorite part 1:28:53.680 --> 1:28:55.679 of the video. He does have to wear an ankle monitor. 1:28:55.760 --> 1:28:57.080 Now someone's coming. 1:28:56.920 --> 1:28:59.160 To it's not an ancestral ankle monitor. 1:29:03.680 --> 1:29:05.840 That is not a normal crowd walk. I don't know 1:29:05.920 --> 1:29:11.639 how to describe what that is. It genuinely defies description. 1:29:11.800 --> 1:29:14.320 It is the weird, weird forms a bush. I've ever 1:29:14.400 --> 1:29:18.200 seen the cube of undertake imagine if Rita was drunk. 1:29:20.840 --> 1:29:23.439 So we're gonna go back. 1:29:23.280 --> 1:29:25.280 To ads real quick, and then when we come back, 1:29:25.360 --> 1:29:28.559 we're going to finally see the Liver Queen and him 1:29:28.640 --> 1:29:32.840 back in his compound talking to his fellow friends about 1:29:32.920 --> 1:29:34.960 how how things are really good, how he wanted to 1:29:35.040 --> 1:29:38.200 get arrested for threatening Joe Rogan, how it's blessing to 1:29:38.280 --> 1:29:40.320 have a restraining order against him and to not be 1:29:40.400 --> 1:29:54.160 able to be in possession of his guns anymore. And 1:29:54.360 --> 1:29:56.720 we're back, and I'm gonna play that video for you 1:29:56.800 --> 1:29:59.880 guys once again. So he is standing in the yard 1:30:00.040 --> 1:30:02.320 of the Liver King compound. His wife is drinking a 1:30:02.800 --> 1:30:06.439 glass of wine next to him, and Appointed this kind 1:30:06.439 --> 1:30:09.240 of reluctantly takes his hand. They are listening to a 1:30:10.080 --> 1:30:11.680 like I think it's a I think you'd call it 1:30:11.720 --> 1:30:14.280 a trance remix of Mike Posner's I Took a Bill 1:30:14.320 --> 1:30:17.680 in a Pisa, So I don't know what it's just 1:30:18.000 --> 1:30:22.160 blasting over the yard. As he talks, he rants about 1:30:22.160 --> 1:30:22.679 his arrest. 1:30:24.439 --> 1:30:30.280 There's zero race, there's zero I really understand. I really 1:30:30.640 --> 1:30:34.000 get it, really and I'm not asking for it. I 1:30:34.040 --> 1:30:37.120 don't need it. But it's it's hard. 1:30:37.880 --> 1:30:43.240 It's the hardest parts over, the hardest parts over, that's great, 1:30:44.160 --> 1:30:45.080 that's really good. 1:30:46.840 --> 1:30:52.679 The hardest parts over getting arrested. His wife really doesn't 1:30:52.720 --> 1:30:53.679 want to take his hand. 1:30:54.400 --> 1:30:54.840 He has a. 1:30:54.920 --> 1:30:59.120 Caffea draped around his shoulders, a tactical caffa. 1:30:59.600 --> 1:31:03.599 He's where a tactical cafea. He loves his tactical kafea. Okay, 1:31:04.080 --> 1:31:04.880 it's good stuff. 1:31:05.800 --> 1:31:08.759 Yeah, he's he's just doing he's just doing really really healthy. 1:31:09.000 --> 1:31:09.160 Yeah. 1:31:09.720 --> 1:31:12.639 He seems to have like added mag pouches for this one, 1:31:12.760 --> 1:31:15.240 which he suggests that he removed them his trip to 1:31:15.320 --> 1:31:15.839 the capital. 1:31:16.000 --> 1:31:18.839 He to remove the mag pouches to go to the capitol. 1:31:19.240 --> 1:31:21.040 So he already throwed it through And so I bet 1:31:21.080 --> 1:31:23.519 I could wear it if I take the mag pouches off. 1:31:24.760 --> 1:31:29.200 Yeahinating fish, it's incredible fish. 1:31:30.680 --> 1:31:32.479 It looks like he's taken so many steroids and he 1:31:32.640 --> 1:31:35.080 is literally inflated and they are trying to get out. 1:31:35.479 --> 1:31:35.679 Yeah. 1:31:35.760 --> 1:31:35.960 Yeah. 1:31:36.960 --> 1:31:38.880 So in this last video that we're going to play, 1:31:38.920 --> 1:31:42.439 he's sitting on a throne. He's got a throat, he 1:31:42.560 --> 1:31:44.640 talks about how he thinks the throne is silly now 1:31:44.760 --> 1:31:47.240 and how he wouldn't have liked past liver King, and 1:31:47.360 --> 1:31:49.360 how people talk about how he's lost it and he 1:31:49.439 --> 1:31:52.560 thinks that's a compliment because I think he's making a 1:31:52.600 --> 1:31:55.320 point about ego death here, but it's not very coherent. 1:31:55.520 --> 1:31:58.080 So here's the liver King talking about how it's good 1:31:58.160 --> 1:31:58.920 to lose your mind. 1:31:59.360 --> 1:32:03.719 Walking through the foyer and I saw these old thrones 1:32:03.800 --> 1:32:05.519 and I just kind of laughed, and I was like, 1:32:05.680 --> 1:32:08.960 oh god, you know, kind of a little bit embarrassed. 1:32:09.880 --> 1:32:12.479 And I thought, oh, you know what, I don't think 1:32:12.520 --> 1:32:15.680 I made a video today. I said I was going to, 1:32:15.880 --> 1:32:18.400 so I better, I better deliver on it. But it 1:32:18.640 --> 1:32:23.600 was Sunday, Family Day, God's Day, Capital g Day, and 1:32:23.720 --> 1:32:26.400 we did that then, Man, it was that was good. 1:32:26.800 --> 1:32:30.679 And so I'm walking by this one, this throne, old throne, 1:32:30.680 --> 1:32:31.320 and I thought. 1:32:31.160 --> 1:32:31.960 Buffalo is real. 1:32:32.040 --> 1:32:35.160 That's that's legit. That's gonna stay. But I thought, oh 1:32:35.280 --> 1:32:40.560 my god, you know the predecessor me, I would have 1:32:40.640 --> 1:32:49.160 hated me too. I read some comments today or yesterday, 1:32:49.960 --> 1:32:54.240 and I saw he's losing it a lot. And this 1:32:54.439 --> 1:32:58.360 is says it on my desk, lose yourself. 1:32:59.680 --> 1:33:03.800 That is like when you actually lose yourself though, and 1:33:03.960 --> 1:33:07.880 you lose the ego, you can't really tell people, you know, 1:33:08.000 --> 1:33:10.760 because then it's like, hey, yeah, I actually shed my 1:33:10.920 --> 1:33:13.760 ego and now I'm better. 1:33:14.240 --> 1:33:16.679 You know, that's the ego talking. 1:33:16.880 --> 1:33:21.040 So if other people are seeing it, whoa thank you, 1:33:21.240 --> 1:33:24.160 thank you, or I can also go back to the egomaniac. 1:33:25.800 --> 1:33:30.320 So here's the thing, folks, the new DSM that's coming out, 1:33:30.360 --> 1:33:32.240 I think they're going to increase the age at which 1:33:32.280 --> 1:33:34.760 you could be diagnosed as a schizophrenic for the male 1:33:35.200 --> 1:33:36.840 up to like forty or something like that. 1:33:37.120 --> 1:33:43.120 And boy, howdy, no, real, truly like real Ross putin 1:33:43.240 --> 1:33:45.840 vibes from this one. He's got like a hood on. 1:33:47.040 --> 1:33:49.760 He really is obsessed with because he's his hair. He's 1:33:49.800 --> 1:33:51.240 got less and less of it every day. 1:33:52.000 --> 1:33:55.439 That'll happen if you put the testosterone, would you're taking 1:33:55.520 --> 1:33:56.840 nothing but pure test yes? 1:33:56.920 --> 1:33:57.120 Yeah? 1:33:57.360 --> 1:34:00.439 Yeah, when you pour a testosterone on your Syrian the morning. 1:34:00.680 --> 1:34:00.920 Yeah. 1:34:01.560 --> 1:34:04.320 So anyway, that's that's my update for everyone on the 1:34:04.360 --> 1:34:07.360 liver King. He's doing well. I'll be shocked if he's 1:34:07.360 --> 1:34:08.000 alive at a year. 1:34:08.040 --> 1:34:09.200 What a fantastic man. 1:34:09.680 --> 1:34:12.280 He's got kids, but he also makes the meat raw testicle, 1:34:12.360 --> 1:34:13.840 so I don't know if they're going to be worse off. 1:34:15.000 --> 1:34:17.360 Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that he's probably one of 1:34:17.400 --> 1:34:19.120 those rare station intervene moments. 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:22.040 Yeah, something should have something should be done here. 1:34:22.560 --> 1:34:25.720 Yeah, yeah it is. It doesn't seem like a healthy guy. 1:34:26.080 --> 1:34:28.040 I know, if you should eat just organ meats. 1:34:28.280 --> 1:34:31.559 No, Apparently, like eating a diet that is entirely consists 1:34:31.600 --> 1:34:36.080 of raw organs, random pharmaceuticals and gear makes you like 1:34:36.240 --> 1:34:39.479 talk exactly the same as like a nineteen year old 1:34:39.640 --> 1:34:46.200 art student. Yeah, like another enough kennemine to like traquilize 1:34:46.240 --> 1:34:49.240 a horse. These are apparently equivalent states of being. 1:34:49.520 --> 1:34:50.920 This is what I've learned from this. Yeah. 1:34:51.240 --> 1:34:54.320 Yeah, I think kenymine is one possible explanation because some 1:34:54.439 --> 1:34:57.759 of his some of his behavior is definitely like ketamine goaded. 1:34:58.439 --> 1:34:58.639 Yeah. 1:35:01.439 --> 1:35:03.160 But I also think there's a good chance that this 1:35:03.280 --> 1:35:06.280 is just like he's been abusing drugs for such a 1:35:06.439 --> 1:35:10.519 long period of time that he's just suffering permanent brain 1:35:10.600 --> 1:35:13.320 damage now at this point, right like he's he's not 1:35:13.560 --> 1:35:17.519 able to like he's not very cogent anymore. And I 1:35:17.560 --> 1:35:19.920 don't know, I feel like the people who are still 1:35:19.960 --> 1:35:23.439 around him are largely taking advantage of him for money, 1:35:23.560 --> 1:35:25.240 Like he was good at making money at one point, 1:35:25.280 --> 1:35:28.720 they're still cash flooding in and that's that's kind of 1:35:28.760 --> 1:35:30.519 what's happening here. But on the other hand, like this 1:35:30.680 --> 1:35:32.400 is this guy made his own hell, he made his 1:35:32.479 --> 1:35:34.800 own bed. He's getting exactly what he wants. Yeah, he 1:35:35.080 --> 1:35:37.040 liked people about the health, which is a pretty fucked 1:35:37.120 --> 1:35:40.080 up thing to do. Like, yeah, I didn't have a 1:35:40.160 --> 1:35:42.599 lot of sympathy for the living King. No, I don't 1:35:42.600 --> 1:35:44.479 have a lot of sympathy for the liver King anyway, 1:35:45.040 --> 1:35:47.240 any questions about the Liver King before we roll out? 1:35:48.400 --> 1:35:53.080 I mean so many, Robert, more than you can ever imagine. 1:35:53.120 --> 1:35:57.080 But okay, on on a scale of like point oh 1:35:57.360 --> 1:36:01.000 one to one, Godafi, how or is golden rs? 1:36:03.120 --> 1:36:06.680 I mean they're golden ars. Like they're fine, like they are, 1:36:07.000 --> 1:36:09.120 like they're definitely like dictator great ars. 1:36:09.240 --> 1:36:09.800 I'll give them that. 1:36:10.040 --> 1:36:12.040 Like if if you if you saw that and like 1:36:12.280 --> 1:36:16.120 some fucking junta leader, you know, carrying it around and 1:36:16.200 --> 1:36:18.640 screaming about executing his enemies, you'd be like, yeah, that 1:36:18.720 --> 1:36:21.320 fits that said, I do think if you are going 1:36:21.439 --> 1:36:24.200 to be carrying a gold plated weapon. An AR is 1:36:24.320 --> 1:36:27.800 just inherently less impressive than an AK forty seven, like 1:36:27.880 --> 1:36:31.280 a golden a golden a AK forty seven says something 1:36:31.360 --> 1:36:34.160 about you, and a golden AR just says that you 1:36:34.280 --> 1:36:36.960 have like fifteen thousand dollars to light on fire for 1:36:37.080 --> 1:36:39.439 no good reason, whereas a gold plate at AK forty 1:36:39.520 --> 1:36:45.439 seven says you've probably mixed cocaine and gunpowder, you know. Yeah, well, yeah, 1:36:46.360 --> 1:36:49.160 that's some advice for LIVI king for free. Yeah, you 1:36:49.240 --> 1:36:51.360 have to you have to be sending positive messages out 1:36:51.360 --> 1:36:53.400 into the world with your apparel, exactly, exactly. 1:36:54.320 --> 1:36:59.160 Yeah's just why I'm wearing the duppiest wolf. You guys 1:36:59.240 --> 1:37:02.520 have to just find the fucking wolf. Like the indignity 1:37:02.920 --> 1:37:07.120 of it being killed is not it's final indignity, as 1:37:07.160 --> 1:37:07.800 it turns out. 1:37:08.360 --> 1:37:11.200 Yeah, no, that's that's as bad as it can go 1:37:11.360 --> 1:37:11.920 for a wolf. 1:37:12.640 --> 1:37:14.200 Yeah, pretty much. You go from the top of the 1:37:14.200 --> 1:37:21.080 food chain to this guy's bolding hu crania. Yeah, I know, 1:37:21.280 --> 1:37:23.560 have a fucking vegetable everyone, That's what I have for you. 1:37:24.040 --> 1:37:27.120 Yeah, I have have vegetables. Eat more vegetables. We haven't 1:37:27.120 --> 1:37:28.240 talked about how he squawks. 1:37:28.600 --> 1:37:35.920 He doesn't squat with the body, squats with the ragh. 1:37:36.160 --> 1:37:36.400 Yeah. 1:37:36.560 --> 1:37:38.840 Now we forgot to mention that that is very funny. 1:37:39.520 --> 1:37:42.840 Yeah, God, everyone go on this. It's a terrible fucking 1:37:42.880 --> 1:37:44.280 time to be I've gone into Instagram. 1:37:44.360 --> 1:37:46.280 It's funny. Yeah, it's really funny. 1:37:46.680 --> 1:37:50.200 Have some fun, enjoy the liver Kings Instagram while he's 1:37:50.200 --> 1:37:52.639 still alive for another like four to six months. 1:37:52.880 --> 1:37:54.800 I'm not taking any pleasure in this. I don't want 1:37:54.880 --> 1:37:55.240 him to die. 1:37:55.320 --> 1:37:57.160 I'm just looking at a man and being like, well, 1:37:57.200 --> 1:37:58.559 that's not gonna last much longer. 1:37:58.760 --> 1:37:58.960 Yeah. 1:37:59.280 --> 1:38:02.360 It is like watching a car without breaks. Yeah, traveling 1:38:02.400 --> 1:38:02.760 down hill. 1:38:02.800 --> 1:38:06.760 Let's speed. Yeah, all right, everyone, have a good night. 1:38:07.479 --> 1:38:07.719 Trim. 1:38:30.400 --> 1:38:34.040 This is it could Happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly 1:38:34.120 --> 1:38:37.040 newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world, 1:38:37.120 --> 1:38:39.400 and what it means for you. I'm Garson Davis. Today 1:38:39.439 --> 1:38:42.400 I am joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, and later 1:38:42.479 --> 1:38:45.559 a special report by Robert Evans. This episode, we are 1:38:45.640 --> 1:38:49.280 covering the week of June twenty fifth to July second. 1:38:49.840 --> 1:38:52.840 It is the end of Pride month. It was Canada Day. 1:38:53.000 --> 1:38:54.920 Fourth of July is coming up. I will say no 1:38:55.000 --> 1:38:57.160 one in our team wished me a happy Canada Day, 1:38:57.560 --> 1:38:58.839 not that I noticed. 1:38:59.680 --> 1:39:02.639 That's correct. I hate the Trump administration because I can't 1:39:02.680 --> 1:39:04.400 do my death the Canada jokes anymore. 1:39:04.479 --> 1:39:10.479 It sucks terrible Canada. Welcome to the Resistance. I'm gonna 1:39:10.600 --> 1:39:14.000 start with a brief news round up because there's been 1:39:14.080 --> 1:39:16.240 so many news stories this past week that we cannot 1:39:16.320 --> 1:39:19.479 do big sections on all of them. We already have 1:39:19.520 --> 1:39:22.400 three main stories, but there's some mini stories that I 1:39:22.439 --> 1:39:24.880 didn't want to get forgotten. I'm gonna start by talking 1:39:24.880 --> 1:39:28.120 about the Supreme Court, which has now limited the ability 1:39:28.160 --> 1:39:32.760 of lower court judges to use nationwide injunctions. So now 1:39:32.880 --> 1:39:36.720 Trump's order to end a birthright citizenship can be enforced, 1:39:36.920 --> 1:39:40.880 if even temporarily, for those who are not affiliated with 1:39:40.960 --> 1:39:45.720 the actual court cases on the constitutionality of ending birthright citizenship. 1:39:46.479 --> 1:39:49.000 What this means on a broader scale is that Trump's 1:39:49.320 --> 1:39:52.400 very obviously illegal executive orders can now be enforced in 1:39:52.479 --> 1:39:56.080 a lot of states because the injunctions that judges are 1:39:56.120 --> 1:39:59.880 putting on only apply to the people in those specific cases, 1:40:00.200 --> 1:40:03.599 so enforcement of the orders can start before the final 1:40:03.720 --> 1:40:06.920 order on if it's legal or not gets gets issued. 1:40:07.280 --> 1:40:12.280 So this is really bad because it will cause some intense, 1:40:12.479 --> 1:40:16.320 if temporary, like short term headaches for many people who's 1:40:16.360 --> 1:40:21.720 now citizenship is in a big question mark. But this 1:40:21.800 --> 1:40:25.439 also affects many other cases regarding judge's ability to actually 1:40:25.520 --> 1:40:28.960 issue injunctions that affect things across the whole country. 1:40:29.760 --> 1:40:32.519 Yeah, there is some sort of like weird hack shit 1:40:32.640 --> 1:40:36.439 you can do where like there's been some stuff the 1:40:36.520 --> 1:40:38.200 judges have been trying to do and to be like 1:40:38.280 --> 1:40:40.840 everyone in the country is a plaintive or whatever the fuck. Yeah, 1:40:40.920 --> 1:40:44.000 and I don't know how long that's gonna hold up, 1:40:44.680 --> 1:40:46.760 and and like the fuck thing about this is again 1:40:46.920 --> 1:40:50.880 it's just like what this means is shroup administration can 1:40:51.479 --> 1:40:54.400 kind of do whatever the fuck they want and it's 1:40:54.439 --> 1:40:57.280 just legal until this free court like looks at it, 1:40:57.560 --> 1:40:59.200 and that's completely unhinged. 1:40:59.600 --> 1:41:03.640 Yeah, Agreediously, illegal orders can now be enforced for a 1:41:03.720 --> 1:41:07.240 period of months to years, as the court cases eventually 1:41:07.320 --> 1:41:09.240 will churn their way up to the Supreme Court. 1:41:09.680 --> 1:41:11.599 Yeah, and this is a particularly egregious one too, because 1:41:11.600 --> 1:41:14.800 the birthday citizenship is so obviously it's just literally in 1:41:14.880 --> 1:41:17.479 the constitution. It's literally the Constitution just says, if you're 1:41:17.479 --> 1:41:18.400 born here, you're a citizen. 1:41:19.000 --> 1:41:21.640 Yeah, well it says that section of the Amendment that 1:41:21.840 --> 1:41:25.679 is under question is subject to the authority thereof which 1:41:25.960 --> 1:41:29.040 is what is being litigated here. There is a section 1:41:29.160 --> 1:41:32.000 there that I guess is perceived by some people to 1:41:32.040 --> 1:41:34.240 be debateable. It doesn't seem very debatable to me, right, No, 1:41:34.360 --> 1:41:37.800 it's completely insane. It's like unhinged shit. Like it's like, 1:41:38.240 --> 1:41:40.600 it's like stuff you wouldn't have seen even from like 1:41:41.040 --> 1:41:45.559 unhinged conservative legal cranks fifteen years ago. You absolutely would 1:41:45.600 --> 1:41:47.080 have seen this particular case. 1:41:47.160 --> 1:41:50.960 Unfortunately, well I guess the absolute most unhinged baby, but 1:41:51.040 --> 1:41:53.560 like you wouldn't have seen even like, I don't know, 1:41:54.479 --> 1:41:58.240 the normal person on Fox News kind of unhinged arguing 1:41:58.320 --> 1:41:59.559 this even like fifteen years ago. 1:41:59.600 --> 1:42:02.160 And now this was like on the blogs that have, 1:42:02.439 --> 1:42:05.439 you know, the GeoCities era web design. 1:42:05.720 --> 1:42:06.840 Yeah. Yeah. 1:42:07.160 --> 1:42:10.000 Trying to restrict and quantify citizenship is going to be 1:42:10.080 --> 1:42:12.559 probably the main theme of this episode, as we will 1:42:12.680 --> 1:42:16.200 get to in the future, and if even temporarily, trying 1:42:16.200 --> 1:42:19.160 to strip the citizenship of already thousands, one hundred thousands 1:42:19.160 --> 1:42:21.240 of people who are who live in this country is 1:42:21.439 --> 1:42:25.200 incredibly worrying considering the massive amount of increased funding that 1:42:25.280 --> 1:42:28.320 ICE is about to receive. Speaking of ICE, second little 1:42:28.360 --> 1:42:33.240 mini story in explosive ICE raid in Huntington Park, California. Yeah, 1:42:33.320 --> 1:42:35.720 or attack and ICE agents used explosives to breach and 1:42:35.880 --> 1:42:38.720 raid the home of US citizens. A drone was sent 1:42:38.800 --> 1:42:41.639 into the home after explosives shattered the windows, sending glass 1:42:41.680 --> 1:42:44.000 yards flying into the home occupied by a mother and 1:42:44.120 --> 1:42:46.880 two young children. The target of the raid was not 1:42:47.160 --> 1:42:50.160 in the home. Border Patrol was looking for a man 1:42:50.240 --> 1:42:53.200 that got into a car accident during a previous ICE raid, 1:42:53.280 --> 1:42:55.280 who was questioned at the scene and was allowed to leave. 1:42:55.640 --> 1:42:58.519 But now the DHS alleges the man was obstructing the 1:42:58.640 --> 1:43:01.120 actions of ICE when he rammed his car into a 1:43:01.200 --> 1:43:05.280 vehicle carrying CBP agents, though witnesses at the scene say 1:43:05.360 --> 1:43:09.280 that the FEDS break checked, leading to a rear ending. 1:43:10.040 --> 1:43:12.800 The man turned himself in on Friday after the raid. 1:43:13.439 --> 1:43:15.960 So what actually happened here is that ICE caused a 1:43:16.120 --> 1:43:19.240 car accident and in response, they blew up the home 1:43:19.360 --> 1:43:20.360 of US citizens. 1:43:20.720 --> 1:43:23.120 Yeah, well, they dynamically breached, Yeah, at home with a 1:43:23.120 --> 1:43:26.160 little child in right, like you see in the video. 1:43:26.680 --> 1:43:29.080 Two young kids. I think, like a six year old 1:43:29.080 --> 1:43:29.680 and a two year old. 1:43:29.840 --> 1:43:32.920 Yeah, you see them presumably the mother of the two mother, Yeah, 1:43:32.960 --> 1:43:34.519 with the child in her arms leaving. 1:43:34.800 --> 1:43:37.120 They sent a fucking drone in there. They're acting the 1:43:37.200 --> 1:43:40.400 house full of like active combatants. You have like dozens 1:43:40.520 --> 1:43:43.599 dozens of people in military fatigues raiding this home. 1:43:43.760 --> 1:43:45.360 Yeah, except that they didn't do it in such a 1:43:45.439 --> 1:43:48.000 fashion as you would if you if you were actually worried, right, 1:43:48.080 --> 1:43:50.559 Like they didn't. There wasn't a flashbang, right that they breached, 1:43:50.840 --> 1:43:52.760 stood around for a while, sent a drone in. They 1:43:52.800 --> 1:43:55.920 didn't dynamically breach in a dynamic way right like they 1:43:55.960 --> 1:43:58.000 would if they were expecting a real threat. 1:43:58.200 --> 1:43:59.960 No, they just wanted to blow up this person's fucking 1:44:00.000 --> 1:44:01.800 house because they were pissed off that they that that 1:44:01.880 --> 1:44:04.720 they caused a car accident. Yes, these are These are 1:44:04.760 --> 1:44:08.120 the tiniest fucking baby secret police I have ever seen 1:44:08.160 --> 1:44:12.080 in my entire goddamn life. Fucking Christ. 1:44:12.960 --> 1:44:15.880 It runs me of that one like picture of like 1:44:15.960 --> 1:44:18.439 a police raid in the nineties that conservatives used to 1:44:18.520 --> 1:44:20.800 use in terms of like like the government's taking over 1:44:21.280 --> 1:44:23.320 of this, of this of this, like you know, retro 1:44:23.920 --> 1:44:27.400 nineties swat cop like pointing a gun at like a family. 1:44:27.479 --> 1:44:29.519 It's like hiding in like a closet. And the Elian 1:44:29.600 --> 1:44:32.840 Gonzales ray, do you mean yeah? And how much this 1:44:33.040 --> 1:44:35.560 was used as like fear of like federal overreach, like 1:44:36.160 --> 1:44:39.360 used by conservatives and now this is like their entire 1:44:39.439 --> 1:44:41.840 platform is raiding the home of US citizens. 1:44:42.280 --> 1:44:43.599 Yeah, it's pretty worth noting. 1:44:43.600 --> 1:44:46.960 I believe Huntington part that mayor has directed their police 1:44:47.479 --> 1:44:51.400 to enforce the California law which requires law enforcement offices 1:44:51.439 --> 1:44:52.560 to identify themselves. 1:44:52.960 --> 1:44:53.080 Right. 1:44:53.400 --> 1:44:55.360 It's been very common to the ICE agents refuse to 1:44:55.400 --> 1:44:58.680 identify themselves and wear masks, right, And I believe this 1:44:58.840 --> 1:45:01.519 was passed by their count and then their mayor, whose 1:45:01.600 --> 1:45:06.640 name is Arturo Flores, released statement calling the ICE abductions 1:45:07.040 --> 1:45:11.560 mass abductions and directing his police to intervene if what 1:45:11.720 --> 1:45:15.160 was happening was unlawful or unauthorized. And I can't help 1:45:15.200 --> 1:45:19.000 but think that that is why we saw this happen here, right, 1:45:19.400 --> 1:45:21.360 I think it may not be so m sicar crash 1:45:21.400 --> 1:45:23.639 as a chance to do something in this city, which 1:45:23.720 --> 1:45:26.200 has yeah, been one of the very few that has 1:45:26.240 --> 1:45:28.200 taken meaningful action to prevent. 1:45:28.040 --> 1:45:32.080 This absolutely because people don't like ice. There's new ice 1:45:32.080 --> 1:45:35.400 approval ratings that came out by Quinnipiac on a June 1:45:35.479 --> 1:45:40.400 twenty fourth, twenty five net approval of ice negative seventeen percent, 1:45:40.840 --> 1:45:44.920 Democrats negative eighty Independence negative thirty two. This is this 1:45:45.040 --> 1:45:47.759 centrist position, independence negative thirty two percent. 1:45:47.840 --> 1:45:50.720 Oh yeah, you've got like bushadmin staff as saying abolish eyes. 1:45:50.760 --> 1:45:51.439 It's a win for me. 1:45:51.760 --> 1:45:54.439 Oh yeah, GOP is up sixty but that's it. This 1:45:54.600 --> 1:45:57.280 is like the centrist position now. And also sixty percent 1:45:57.360 --> 1:46:00.639 is nearly just half the GOP. Like, people don't like ice. 1:46:00.680 --> 1:46:02.160 The majority of people in this country don't like ice 1:46:02.200 --> 1:46:05.200 negative seventeen percent. Yeah, candidates that need to run on 1:46:05.320 --> 1:46:07.519 abolishing ice. This is like one of the most important 1:46:07.560 --> 1:46:11.440 issues facing the country right now, and they are wildly unpopular, 1:46:11.640 --> 1:46:14.760 including for independence. For this is this set abolishing ice 1:46:14.800 --> 1:46:16.160 should be the centrist position. 1:46:16.560 --> 1:46:18.479 Yeah, well but this but this is this is sort 1:46:18.479 --> 1:46:21.000 of the problem, right, which is that the Democrats did this, like, well, 1:46:21.000 --> 1:46:22.960 a least some of them, at least AOC did so 1:46:23.320 --> 1:46:24.880 some of that. A Democratic wave ran on that in 1:46:24.960 --> 1:46:27.800 twenty eighteen, and then the Democrats were just like each 1:46:27.840 --> 1:46:29.760 shit we're never going to do that again. And like 1:46:29.840 --> 1:46:32.479 AOC never fucking mentioned it again. Like they all came 1:46:32.520 --> 1:46:33.880 into power and we're like, Okay, we got to deal 1:46:33.920 --> 1:46:36.080 with super border crackdown. Shit. It's like they need to 1:46:36.560 --> 1:46:37.560 they fucking need to do this. 1:46:37.840 --> 1:46:39.880 Yeah, but people should bring it back. I think that 1:46:40.240 --> 1:46:42.800 the data here is in support. Yeah, and like ICE 1:46:42.920 --> 1:46:44.680 is younger than I am. ICE is younger than all 1:46:44.720 --> 1:46:47.040 of us, Like yeah, ICE is a is a fucking 1:46:47.280 --> 1:46:48.120 fake agency. 1:46:48.280 --> 1:46:50.439 Yeah, and DHS is younger than most of us. 1:46:50.560 --> 1:46:50.720 Yeah. 1:46:50.960 --> 1:46:52.600 I like the ICE as an agency should be like 1:46:52.680 --> 1:46:54.880 disappear and we should like try to be forgiven for 1:46:55.000 --> 1:46:56.599 it over the course of hundreds of years. 1:46:56.760 --> 1:46:59.200 Like yeah, Yeah, people want to learn more about the 1:46:59.200 --> 1:47:01.639 history of DHS. I did a series about title forty 1:47:01.680 --> 1:47:04.080 two where I talk about it a whole lot. 1:47:04.880 --> 1:47:09.120 Speaking of agencies that shouldn't exist. The BBC cut the 1:47:09.160 --> 1:47:12.799 feed of the glass Frey Music Festival during Kneecap's performance 1:47:13.120 --> 1:47:17.360 to block pro Palestinian messaging, but they failed to stop 1:47:17.479 --> 1:47:21.759 Bob Villain from leading a death to the idf chant. 1:47:22.800 --> 1:47:23.840 Bob Dylan. 1:47:25.280 --> 1:47:27.920 Villain what. 1:47:29.920 --> 1:47:31.799 Bob Dylan based on Villain. 1:47:32.880 --> 1:47:35.439 They are a punk rap group and they were leading 1:47:35.520 --> 1:47:39.599 death to the IDF chance broadcast live on the stage. 1:47:40.080 --> 1:47:42.720 Both of these music groups, Kneecap and Bob Villain, are 1:47:42.760 --> 1:47:46.479 now an investigation by the British police from their political 1:47:46.600 --> 1:47:50.479 comments at this music festival, and the US State Department 1:47:50.640 --> 1:47:54.439 has revoked Bob Villain's work visa ahead of an upcoming 1:47:54.600 --> 1:47:57.960 US tour as punishment for criticizing the military of a 1:47:58.120 --> 1:48:01.240 foreign country. The Party of Free Speed each strikes once again. 1:48:01.400 --> 1:48:04.040 Yeah, I do want to say that, like as as 1:48:04.080 --> 1:48:07.000 a consumer of Glastonbrie music festival content, right, I guess 1:48:07.200 --> 1:48:09.360 as a British process Yeah, and at the target like 1:48:09.479 --> 1:48:13.080 age demographic, I guess what this has overshadowed is the 1:48:13.400 --> 1:48:17.160 massive amount of support for the Palestinian cause that you saw. Like, 1:48:17.560 --> 1:48:19.680 go watch a glaston Bree video and you will not 1:48:20.080 --> 1:48:22.880 not see Palestinian flagged in the crowd most of them. 1:48:22.920 --> 1:48:25.960 You will hear the artists acknowledging that there is a 1:48:26.040 --> 1:48:27.160 genocide in Palestine. 1:48:27.240 --> 1:48:27.360 Right. 1:48:28.120 --> 1:48:31.200 I don't know if anyone at the BBC is familiar 1:48:31.280 --> 1:48:33.320 with Bob Villain, Like, I'm sure they've played their music, 1:48:33.439 --> 1:48:35.519 but whoever made the choice to stream them and not 1:48:35.640 --> 1:48:38.880 stream Kneecap clearly had not done like a fucking like 1:48:38.920 --> 1:48:43.240 a Wikipedia level research, because you know what you're getting 1:48:43.280 --> 1:48:45.360 into with these guys, Like both the people in the 1:48:45.400 --> 1:48:47.839 band are called Bobby Villain, right, No, that's sirs, staging 1:48:47.920 --> 1:48:50.080 that they use in order to have a little bit 1:48:50.120 --> 1:48:53.040 of privacy. But there's an interview with him a while 1:48:53.040 --> 1:48:55.000 ago where he's like, Yeah, I just like pisching people 1:48:55.040 --> 1:48:56.680 off because it's the only thing that brings me joy 1:48:56.720 --> 1:48:58.040 in this miserable fucking country. 1:49:00.400 --> 1:49:01.880 Ah. Incredible. 1:49:02.200 --> 1:49:04.560 Yeah, they've been very aspoken about a large number of 1:49:04.640 --> 1:49:05.320 things that the. 1:49:05.320 --> 1:49:07.439 British police have been going completely unhinged with this too. 1:49:07.600 --> 1:49:10.280 The Parliament's currently I don't know what the result. I 1:49:10.320 --> 1:49:12.120 think they may have voted to do it already. They've 1:49:12.120 --> 1:49:14.400 been trying to vote to make it illegal for like 1:49:14.520 --> 1:49:17.000 Palestinian action to exist after they did it after they 1:49:17.040 --> 1:49:20.479 did a pretty big action at a Britis Din action year. Yeah, 1:49:20.520 --> 1:49:22.800 after Parson Action did a pretty big like action at 1:49:22.840 --> 1:49:26.600 a like fucking British arms manufacturer that's also Israel. So 1:49:27.000 --> 1:49:30.160 they're going so unhinged on all of this shit. 1:49:30.600 --> 1:49:33.799 And they've been going after Kneecap for years. There's multiple 1:49:33.880 --> 1:49:37.719 investigations into Kneecap. Now you should check out Neecaps new movie. 1:49:37.760 --> 1:49:41.280 It's pretty good for our first main story. I guess 1:49:41.320 --> 1:49:44.519 I'll throw to James to discuss denaturalization. 1:49:44.760 --> 1:49:49.240 Yeah so yeah, a less exciting than Glassery music festival. 1:49:49.920 --> 1:49:52.679 So the naturalization if you're not familiar, rate the movement 1:49:52.680 --> 1:49:55.320 of US citizenship from people who became US citizeners at 1:49:55.360 --> 1:49:59.240 some point in their life. The DOJ has issued instructions 1:49:59.320 --> 1:50:03.439 to its Civil Division employees to pursue denaturalization proceedings against 1:50:03.479 --> 1:50:06.640 naturalized US citizens quote in all cases permitted by law 1:50:06.680 --> 1:50:07.879 and supported by the evidence. 1:50:09.120 --> 1:50:10.880 It goes on to lists some categories. 1:50:11.160 --> 1:50:13.960 These include some of the things you might expect, including 1:50:14.200 --> 1:50:17.280 being in access to terrorism and organized crime, people who 1:50:17.360 --> 1:50:20.720 engaged in war crimes, people who committed violent crimes or 1:50:20.720 --> 1:50:24.640 failed to disclose felonies on their application for naturalization. But 1:50:24.680 --> 1:50:29.320 they also include fraud both against private individuals and against Medicaid, Medicare, 1:50:29.560 --> 1:50:34.599 and the pay Check Protection Plan maybe program, the PPP 1:50:35.720 --> 1:50:39.800 COVID era government bailout right. The last one, however, is 1:50:39.840 --> 1:50:42.880 the most concerning. Quote any cases referred to the Civil 1:50:42.920 --> 1:50:46.520 Division that the Division considers officially important to pursue. 1:50:46.960 --> 1:50:52.280 Any cases that area found to be sufficient sufficiently important. 1:50:52.760 --> 1:50:58.519 Just people aren't familiar rates. Civil and criminal law are distinct. Right, 1:50:58.760 --> 1:51:02.200 civil law has a lower burden of proof and crucially, 1:51:02.600 --> 1:51:07.000 the accused person is not entitled to legal representation. In addition, 1:51:07.240 --> 1:51:10.280 this could have trickle down effects. Right, children of naturalized 1:51:10.280 --> 1:51:14.800 citizens are also citizens, so their citizenship derives from their 1:51:14.920 --> 1:51:17.400 parent citizenship. So it's possible that children who are not 1:51:17.479 --> 1:51:21.719 even accused of doing anything wrong could be the natural 1:51:21.880 --> 1:51:26.639 or not naturalized, de citizenized and left stateless. Right, many 1:51:26.720 --> 1:51:30.000 of these children will not be dual nationals. This is 1:51:30.040 --> 1:51:33.120 another big problem with like ending birthright citizenship. Yeah, so 1:51:33.160 --> 1:51:35.680 it will lead people so like this is something that 1:51:35.800 --> 1:51:38.360 I do feel like, much like I feel like in 1:51:38.439 --> 1:51:41.280 the UK people should have pushed back against the government 1:51:42.080 --> 1:51:44.760 prosecuting people for saying shit that was fucking hateful and 1:51:44.880 --> 1:51:48.519 disgusting about migrants when there was a stabbing attack last year. 1:51:49.080 --> 1:51:51.120 I still feel people should have pushed back because it's 1:51:51.120 --> 1:51:53.000 not a good situation when the government gets to decide 1:51:53.040 --> 1:51:56.400 what you can and can't think. Likewise, in this instance, 1:51:57.120 --> 1:52:00.160 nations in the global North have been leaving people who 1:52:00.200 --> 1:52:02.360 fought for the or people who are accused of fighting 1:52:02.400 --> 1:52:04.519 for the Islamic state or joining the Islamic state. Stateless 1:52:04.560 --> 1:52:06.280 for a long time, and I think that was a 1:52:06.400 --> 1:52:09.320 bad precedent and they were able to As we'll get 1:52:09.360 --> 1:52:13.920 into they will always use an odious person as the 1:52:14.080 --> 1:52:16.360 first example, right to set the precedent and then go 1:52:16.479 --> 1:52:16.840 from there. 1:52:16.920 --> 1:52:17.080 Yep. 1:52:17.280 --> 1:52:20.560 So in the odious person example in this case is 1:52:20.600 --> 1:52:24.280 someone called Elliott Duke. They have been denaturalized. Duke was 1:52:24.280 --> 1:52:27.080 a UK citizen served in the United States military. While 1:52:27.200 --> 1:52:33.000 serving in Germany, they received and distributed child sex abuse material, 1:52:33.360 --> 1:52:37.960 according to the DOJ. They were later contacted by the 1:52:38.120 --> 1:52:41.599 FBI about this and prosecuted. The DOJ stated that their 1:52:41.680 --> 1:52:45.960 case was identified as part of Operation Prison Lookout, which 1:52:46.000 --> 1:52:49.479 aims to identify sex offenders who have naturalized. I haven't 1:52:49.479 --> 1:52:51.840 seen any reporting on Prison Lookout. It's in the press release, 1:52:51.880 --> 1:52:53.599 but I think maybe people don't read to the bottom. 1:52:53.960 --> 1:52:56.479 But it appears that the DOJ this case has been 1:52:56.560 --> 1:52:58.680 going on for months. The Duke case, right, and so 1:52:58.840 --> 1:53:02.280 the DOJ as early as February this year was looking 1:53:02.680 --> 1:53:06.200 through prosecution records to find and find naturalized citizens who 1:53:06.240 --> 1:53:10.439 have been convicted of sex crimes. Duke was not able 1:53:10.520 --> 1:53:13.519 to get an attorney to represent them. They also it 1:53:13.560 --> 1:53:17.400 appears to renounce a UK citizenship, and it's not very 1:53:17.479 --> 1:53:21.280 clear what happens now, right, like in another stateless person cases, 1:53:21.320 --> 1:53:26.080 where does this person go? Denaturalization has been used before, 1:53:26.280 --> 1:53:28.120 right that The time when the United States did the 1:53:28.200 --> 1:53:32.080 most denaturalization was during the Second Red Scare second rates 1:53:32.120 --> 1:53:33.280 gay kay and McCarthyism. 1:53:33.360 --> 1:53:35.559 Right, and oh boy, are they trying to bring it back. 1:53:36.080 --> 1:53:40.439 Yeah, yep, twenty thousand cases a year in the McCarthy era. 1:53:41.400 --> 1:53:44.320 For references, stats I could find suggest about twenty five 1:53:44.479 --> 1:53:49.280 million naturalized citizens in the United States both Obama. Obama 1:53:49.320 --> 1:53:53.120 had something called Operation Janus identified people who were eligible 1:53:53.200 --> 1:53:57.880 for denaturalization, and Trump one also at higher rates of denaturalization, 1:53:58.080 --> 1:54:01.120 but nothing on this McCarthy eras scale. Right, people will 1:54:01.120 --> 1:54:04.559 be familiar with the naturalization also before that, that happened. 1:54:04.360 --> 1:54:06.000 To Emma Goldman for example. 1:54:06.360 --> 1:54:06.559 Yeah. 1:54:06.920 --> 1:54:08.679 One other story from this week that's kind of related 1:54:08.840 --> 1:54:12.320 is it was announced that whol to check the citizenship 1:54:12.400 --> 1:54:16.960 status of all Americans. This is the first time we've 1:54:17.200 --> 1:54:20.479 had a centralized tool like this, or we've attempted to 1:54:21.080 --> 1:54:23.400 the US has for a while has resisted creating like 1:54:23.520 --> 1:54:26.439 a dossier of like official citizens because this is like 1:54:26.760 --> 1:54:29.280 a kind of problematic thing to have. There's a lot 1:54:29.280 --> 1:54:32.600 of issues with this concept. Actually verifying that this list 1:54:32.760 --> 1:54:35.280 is accurate is very tricky. You have to add people 1:54:35.320 --> 1:54:37.440 who have been naturalized how they've been naturalized. There's other 1:54:37.520 --> 1:54:41.879 people who acquire citizenship through other means than the standard 1:54:41.960 --> 1:54:45.360 like naturalization process, like including like through through your parents. 1:54:45.840 --> 1:54:48.560 There's the Child Citizenship Act of two thousand where if 1:54:48.640 --> 1:54:50.880 one of your parents is a US citizen and you 1:54:51.280 --> 1:54:53.640 are not a US citizen, but you live with your 1:54:53.800 --> 1:54:57.080 US citizen parent while being a legal permanent resident, that 1:54:57.280 --> 1:55:00.920 then gives you automatic citizenship. But you don't need to 1:55:00.920 --> 1:55:02.960 apply for the naturalization process. So this is like a 1:55:03.160 --> 1:55:05.520 really weird thing to prove. You have to apply for 1:55:05.840 --> 1:55:08.720 a certificate or apply for a passport as proof of citizenship. 1:55:09.400 --> 1:55:12.320 How would those cases be added to this list? This 1:55:12.520 --> 1:55:15.240 is an incredibly problematic thing to have, and it's going 1:55:15.320 --> 1:55:17.760 to be used mainly just to hunt people down and 1:55:17.960 --> 1:55:18.960 try to deport them. 1:55:19.200 --> 1:55:21.600 Yeah, massive information security risk. 1:55:22.000 --> 1:55:26.520 It's really problematic and tied in with these other denaturalization programs. 1:55:27.040 --> 1:55:29.720 It's a really worrying sign of where things are going 1:55:29.800 --> 1:55:30.160 to be going. 1:55:30.480 --> 1:55:33.720 Yeah, talking of worrying signs, this is a worrying sign 1:55:33.760 --> 1:55:35.480 that we have to pivot to advertisements. 1:55:48.120 --> 1:55:51.200 All right, we are back, James. You do have one 1:55:51.600 --> 1:55:55.280 piece of good news in the immigration front, Well, I 1:55:55.360 --> 1:55:57.760 do you, Garson. I've gotta hate you some bad news first, buddy. 1:55:57.880 --> 1:55:58.960 That's the way this show works. 1:55:59.000 --> 1:56:01.040 That's how we do it here. Cool Zone Media. 1:56:01.360 --> 1:56:02.080 It can happen here. 1:56:02.200 --> 1:56:06.920 Special Immigrant Defenders Law Center i llegal nonprofit says one 1:56:07.000 --> 1:56:11.160 of their clients, Julie Calderon, was abducted by armed men 1:56:11.240 --> 1:56:13.720 in Los Angeles and taken to Santy Cedro. People are 1:56:13.720 --> 1:56:16.080 not familiar. Santit Caedro is the border that you might 1:56:16.160 --> 1:56:19.840 call San Diego border, right, the town that actually has 1:56:19.960 --> 1:56:23.160 the physical excess of Tijuana. Santi Suedro. The city of 1:56:23.200 --> 1:56:25.840 San Diego also has some land down there. She was 1:56:25.920 --> 1:56:28.720 told at Santi Sudro that she was to sign voluntary 1:56:28.760 --> 1:56:33.200 deportation papers. She very reasonably refused to ask to see 1:56:33.200 --> 1:56:34.760 a Laura and a judge, and at this point she 1:56:34.960 --> 1:56:37.720 was taken and returned to the armed men. And it's 1:56:37.800 --> 1:56:40.640 now being detained in a warehouse with no beds, blankets, 1:56:40.720 --> 1:56:43.360 or food. She was able to make a call to 1:56:43.520 --> 1:56:46.760 her family from a blocked number. She described the people 1:56:46.800 --> 1:56:50.360 as bounty hunters, and at this point she said she 1:56:50.440 --> 1:56:54.920 has not seen any uniformed offices in her detention right. 1:56:55.000 --> 1:56:57.000 She's being detained in an area where men and women 1:56:57.040 --> 1:56:59.280 are mixed, which is not usual in border patrol attention, 1:56:59.360 --> 1:57:02.320 and according to Deaf. According to im Deaf, she has 1:57:02.360 --> 1:57:04.240 not been able to shower and the only water source 1:57:04.400 --> 1:57:08.840 is a sink. The Mexican Consulate has been informed and 1:57:09.080 --> 1:57:11.120 thinks that she might now be in the O Ti 1:57:11.240 --> 1:57:14.920 Meca Dettention Center, but because she's not showing up on 1:57:15.000 --> 1:57:17.600 the ice detainee locator, they don't know that for sure, 1:57:18.200 --> 1:57:21.280 and they are therefore still a little bit unclear on 1:57:21.360 --> 1:57:23.840 where this lady has gone. I have seen reports of 1:57:23.880 --> 1:57:26.440 bounty hunters, many of you have sent them to me. 1:57:26.920 --> 1:57:29.000 I have seen none that I find to be credible 1:57:29.080 --> 1:57:34.400 before this. IM Deaf are an established group. They are 1:57:35.520 --> 1:57:38.760 not people who I've found to be prone to making 1:57:38.800 --> 1:57:41.040 things up or exaggerating like I trust. 1:57:40.880 --> 1:57:45.440 Them as a source. And this is deeply, deeply worrying. 1:57:45.680 --> 1:57:48.680 I don't know why it's not getting more coverage other 1:57:48.720 --> 1:57:51.720 than most people on the migration and border beat perhaps 1:57:51.760 --> 1:57:55.520 don't speak Spanish or have actually just turned up on 1:57:55.600 --> 1:57:57.200 this beat a few weeks ago and have have no 1:57:57.360 --> 1:58:00.800 notion of like who the actors and these groups are, 1:58:01.520 --> 1:58:04.880 and they tend to go off government press releases. This 1:58:05.120 --> 1:58:07.880 is like shit that we haven't seen in the United 1:58:07.920 --> 1:58:09.800 States since I know, the Fugitive Slave Act. 1:58:10.440 --> 1:58:14.920 Like it's appalling. Yeah, this is like the most just actual, 1:58:15.120 --> 1:58:17.360 straight up nineteen thirty is Nazi shit that we've seen 1:58:17.880 --> 1:58:18.320 from them. 1:58:18.640 --> 1:58:25.320 Like, yes, it's hideous, Yeah, it's happening here in San Diego, 1:58:25.480 --> 1:58:29.200 but it's also of course like as Californian as we 1:58:29.240 --> 1:58:33.720 are entering this time with the most cowardly and like 1:58:33.920 --> 1:58:36.440 pathetic governor that we've had in a long time, like 1:58:36.600 --> 1:58:38.640 Arnolds Tortenego is a Republican, But I bad you'd have 1:58:38.680 --> 1:58:41.880 handled this better than Nuisance, who is just a slime ball. 1:58:42.560 --> 1:58:44.640 Yeah, but the fact that Newsom isn't like like, if 1:58:44.680 --> 1:58:47.280 this was happening in fucking Illinois, Pritscrew would have swat 1:58:47.400 --> 1:58:50.840 teams like these, these these people would be like dead 1:58:50.960 --> 1:58:55.879 right now, but like this is this is completely fucking unhinged. 1:58:56.320 --> 1:58:59.440 Yeah, no, this is the fuck. Yeah, James, I was, 1:58:59.560 --> 1:59:01.560 I was muster good news after the break. 1:59:01.600 --> 1:59:05.200 You're right, Garrison and I do have some lucky you. 1:59:06.040 --> 1:59:10.440 Finally, a judge has ordered that Trump's sweeping asylum ban 1:59:11.080 --> 1:59:15.480 exceeds his authority as president and granted broad class protection. 1:59:15.840 --> 1:59:18.160 So we're going to see, like literally this happened maybe 1:59:18.240 --> 1:59:21.520 thirty minutes before before we started recording. I'm going to 1:59:21.600 --> 1:59:24.320 read over the court documents I've linked them in the 1:59:24.400 --> 1:59:27.520 notes here until what this means. But it suggests that 1:59:27.960 --> 1:59:31.480 Trump's authority under the Immigration Naturalization Act doesn't allow him 1:59:31.520 --> 1:59:34.520 to just say we're not doing asylum anymore, and therefore 1:59:34.680 --> 1:59:36.680 that could mean that it's possible for people to once 1:59:36.680 --> 1:59:40.960 again apply for asylum in the United States. I don't 1:59:41.000 --> 1:59:44.120 know how that will look. The Biden administration had great 1:59:44.240 --> 1:59:48.800 success dating asylum through CBP one right and making it 1:59:49.040 --> 1:59:52.240 practically impossible for many people, people who have darker skin, 1:59:52.360 --> 1:59:55.200 people who don't have fancy as cell phone, people don't 1:59:55.200 --> 1:59:56.960 have access to Wi Fi et cetera, et cetera, to 1:59:57.000 --> 1:59:59.760 apply for asylum. That was a Biden administration. The people 1:59:59.800 --> 2:00:03.160 who we're supposed to think of good they were terrible 2:00:03.400 --> 2:00:06.600 for migrants, but they did they got that, they got 2:00:06.640 --> 2:00:10.600 that through, right. So what we'll see from the Trump administration, 2:00:10.720 --> 2:00:12.640 I don't imagine we will see a return to like 2:00:12.800 --> 2:00:17.200 regular title light asylum processing as we saw like the 2:00:17.320 --> 2:00:19.560 last time we saw it, I guess within the Obama area, 2:00:19.640 --> 2:00:20.480 and that was pretty bad. 2:00:21.200 --> 2:00:23.600 So yeah, I don't know what we'll see. 2:00:23.800 --> 2:00:25.840 Yeah, all right, now I'm going to throw two Robert 2:00:25.880 --> 2:00:28.960 Evans for a special report on the Diddy trial. 2:00:29.680 --> 2:00:32.200 Hey, everybody, Robert here. I guess I'm a resident p 2:00:32.360 --> 2:00:34.920 Didy expert because I did the Bastards episodes on him. 2:00:35.360 --> 2:00:37.040 Just felt like it was appropriate to give y'all a 2:00:37.120 --> 2:00:40.440 brief update. So on the day that we record this, 2:00:40.800 --> 2:00:46.080 which is Wednesday, the second of July, Sean Diddy Combs 2:00:46.200 --> 2:00:48.880 was found guilty on two of the five charges in 2:00:49.040 --> 2:00:52.440 his trial. He was being charged with racketeering, conspiracy and 2:00:52.600 --> 2:00:55.880 sex trafficking, and he was not found guilty of racketeering, 2:00:55.880 --> 2:00:59.360 conspiracy or of both sex trafficking accounts, each of which 2:00:59.400 --> 2:01:02.800 carried fifty near mandatory minimums, but he was found guilty 2:01:02.880 --> 2:01:06.240 on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. These 2:01:06.280 --> 2:01:08.520 were for one for a woman who was pudent into Jane, 2:01:08.600 --> 2:01:12.880 and one for his former partner, Cassie Ventura. So you know, 2:01:13.840 --> 2:01:16.960 this is not what people who understand the case had 2:01:17.080 --> 2:01:21.680 hoped entirely, right, Like, this is not ideal, It's not nothing, 2:01:21.880 --> 2:01:23.400 but it's not ideal. 2:01:23.440 --> 2:01:25.920 Now, if you can't like why did this happen? Right? 2:01:26.400 --> 2:01:29.000 Why didn't he get convicted on these higher charges he 2:01:29.040 --> 2:01:32.160 was absolutely guilty of? And it's because the prosecutors focked up, Right, 2:01:32.880 --> 2:01:35.720 there were a number of different felony charges they could 2:01:35.720 --> 2:01:38.240 have gone after him for that were less difficult to 2:01:38.280 --> 2:01:40.600 prove than racketeering and sex trafficking and did he had 2:01:40.640 --> 2:01:41.240 good lawyers? 2:01:41.360 --> 2:01:41.480 Right? 2:01:41.600 --> 2:01:43.440 And there's a lot of weirdness about, like, well, they 2:01:43.480 --> 2:01:45.440 didn't go after him for the guns and drugs that 2:01:45.520 --> 2:01:47.800 he had both at his properties, or for a number 2:01:47.800 --> 2:01:49.720 of the other things that they could have done after him. 2:01:49.960 --> 2:01:52.160 You know, this is because prosecutors have to make choices 2:01:52.200 --> 2:01:55.120 as to like what to charge someone with, and they 2:01:55.240 --> 2:01:56.920 tried for some of the harder stuff that was always 2:01:56.920 --> 2:01:59.240 going to be a little more difficult to prove. Now, 2:01:59.440 --> 2:02:01.320 the two charge he's been convicted on, he could do 2:02:01.440 --> 2:02:03.200 up to twenty years each shows up to a maximum 2:02:03.240 --> 2:02:05.280 ten year sentence, so he could get sentenced to do 2:02:05.440 --> 2:02:08.360 ten years for each. Prosecutors have said that they're looking 2:02:08.400 --> 2:02:10.320 for a four to five year prison sentence, which I 2:02:10.400 --> 2:02:13.760 think is much too light. Twenty years would be I 2:02:13.800 --> 2:02:17.200 would say, like, okay, that's that's a serious punishment. 2:02:17.280 --> 2:02:18.720 Anything over it. You know, ten years are over. 2:02:18.760 --> 2:02:20.680 I would say, that's still at least you know, we 2:02:20.760 --> 2:02:22.280 can say it's not all the things he should have 2:02:22.320 --> 2:02:24.280 been convicted on, but that's not You can't know. No 2:02:24.280 --> 2:02:26.320 one's going to spit it ten years in prison, especially 2:02:26.360 --> 2:02:28.240 at his age. He's in his mid fifties right now. 2:02:28.800 --> 2:02:31.960 But four or five years, you know, I wouldn't quite 2:02:32.000 --> 2:02:33.560 say that's a slap on the wrist, but it's not 2:02:33.760 --> 2:02:37.160 nearly what is deserved here right now. You do with 2:02:37.480 --> 2:02:39.640 federal sentences like this, tend to serve a lot more 2:02:39.680 --> 2:02:41.200 of this. This is not a hope and he'll be 2:02:41.240 --> 2:02:43.840 out in a year kind of situation. One of the 2:02:43.880 --> 2:02:46.200 things that's kind of worth noting here is that he 2:02:46.360 --> 2:02:48.920 and his team did ask for bail while he waited 2:02:49.000 --> 2:02:51.840 for because next week he's going to they're going to 2:02:52.000 --> 2:02:54.200 like set up when he's going to get sentenced. Right, 2:02:54.840 --> 2:02:56.840 So that doesn't mean he'll be sentenced next week, but 2:02:56.920 --> 2:02:58.640 they'll be scheduling as sentencing next week. 2:02:58.760 --> 2:02:58.840 Right. 2:02:58.880 --> 2:03:02.200 The legal system moves pretty slow. And his team asked 2:03:02.240 --> 2:03:04.400 for bail. There's evidence that he had people like setting 2:03:04.480 --> 2:03:08.480 up getting extra security up around his primary home and 2:03:08.560 --> 2:03:10.200 they were kind of expecting him to be able to 2:03:10.280 --> 2:03:13.120 go home today. That's not going to happen. The judge 2:03:13.280 --> 2:03:15.680 has denied his bail. This is after one of his 2:03:15.800 --> 2:03:19.480 accusers basically said, hey, I think this guy is really dangerous. 2:03:19.480 --> 2:03:22.560 He has a history of going after his accusers. I 2:03:22.600 --> 2:03:24.919 don't feel safe with him out, you know, before sentencing, 2:03:25.480 --> 2:03:27.880 and that's maybe a good sign that maybe the judge 2:03:27.920 --> 2:03:30.040 will go further than the prosecutors. So though I don't 2:03:30.080 --> 2:03:33.040 know if that's likely. Again, I'll be like, Okay, well, 2:03:33.040 --> 2:03:35.760 at least this is serious. If he gets ten years 2:03:35.960 --> 2:03:38.320 or something like that. If it is four or five, 2:03:38.440 --> 2:03:41.280 I'm going to be pretty frustrated. But you know that's 2:03:41.360 --> 2:03:43.879 the case. This is we are talking about a billionaire 2:03:44.000 --> 2:03:47.480 going to core here, so any serious prison sentence is 2:03:48.240 --> 2:03:50.080 more than you usually would expect. And this is a 2:03:50.120 --> 2:03:52.360 guy who's been used to living with kind of impunity 2:03:52.560 --> 2:03:55.800 for a while, and if he spends years in prison, 2:03:55.920 --> 2:03:59.600 either way, it's not totally impunity. But yeah, not ideal. 2:04:00.120 --> 2:04:02.720 That's the situation as it stands right now with P Diddy. 2:04:02.920 --> 2:04:05.360 You know, we'll see again next week. They're going to 2:04:05.400 --> 2:04:09.400 schedule his sentencing, so yeah, we'll see how things shake out. 2:04:10.360 --> 2:04:12.880 Now we'll pass over to me to discuss our second 2:04:12.960 --> 2:04:18.520 main story this episode, the formerly named One Big Beautiful Bill. 2:04:19.080 --> 2:04:23.480 Oh God. So actually reading through this, I refuse to 2:04:23.520 --> 2:04:25.800 call this anything over in the genocide budget because this 2:04:26.200 --> 2:04:29.720 budget what is designed to do is a genocide and 2:04:29.960 --> 2:04:32.320 that's not an exaggeration. 2:04:32.760 --> 2:04:35.280 Well, there's multiple types of killing included in this bill, 2:04:35.400 --> 2:04:38.480 not just genocide. Yeah, the medicare cuts, I think that's true. 2:04:38.480 --> 2:04:40.840 Aren't aren't technically genocide, but they but they could lead 2:04:40.920 --> 2:04:43.720 to mass death, So we should be we should be inclusive. 2:04:44.160 --> 2:04:45.760 We should be inclusive of all the types of death. 2:04:45.840 --> 2:04:48.200 I think we'll get into the medicaid shit later. We 2:04:48.360 --> 2:04:51.520 need to start with the mass deportation. We want to 2:04:51.560 --> 2:04:53.240 do an ethnic cleansing. We want you to just simply 2:04:53.280 --> 2:04:55.200 wipe out entire people as you'll live in the US 2:04:56.120 --> 2:04:59.360 and like fucking dig depots them from this country. Right, 2:04:59.520 --> 2:05:02.040 And by we you mean the bill, not you Mia 2:05:02.160 --> 2:05:03.680 Wong or US school zone media. 2:05:03.800 --> 2:05:05.480 Yeah no, by yeah, by bye bye, We I mean 2:05:05.480 --> 2:05:07.520 the Republican Party who fucking wrote this bill? 2:05:07.600 --> 2:05:08.520 Okay, just checking. 2:05:08.720 --> 2:05:10.720 So, okay, what is actually in this So there's a 2:05:10.840 --> 2:05:13.880 very good writeup of this from the American Immigration Council 2:05:14.240 --> 2:05:17.160 and a lot of the stuff is from there. Okay. 2:05:17.440 --> 2:05:20.640 So across homeland security and government affairs, the judiciary, and 2:05:20.760 --> 2:05:24.080 the military. The version of the budget that just passed 2:05:24.120 --> 2:05:29.640 the Senate allocates one hundred and seventy billion dollars to 2:05:29.800 --> 2:05:32.760 their fucking unhinged deportation ship. This would be the third 2:05:32.880 --> 2:05:36.400 largest military budget in the world. It is thirty percent 2:05:36.600 --> 2:05:39.760 larger than the military budget of Russia, which is currently 2:05:39.840 --> 2:05:43.680 fighting an active, full scale ground war. Right. This is 2:05:43.720 --> 2:05:45.800 a genocide budget. They are trying to get one hundred 2:05:45.840 --> 2:05:48.600 and seventy billion dollars for all of their board enforcement 2:05:48.640 --> 2:05:51.440 shit because they want to do a genocide. They're trying 2:05:51.520 --> 2:05:54.000 to remove entire peoples from the United States, and to 2:05:54.120 --> 2:05:56.840 do that they need this kind of money. Yeah, so 2:05:57.040 --> 2:05:58.560 let's let's let's break down a little bit of where 2:05:58.600 --> 2:06:00.720 this money's fucking going We're gonna do a longer thing. 2:06:00.760 --> 2:06:03.640 I'm gonna do a longer episode about this thing, probably Tuesday, 2:06:04.480 --> 2:06:07.040 like everything else in this budget, but this needs to 2:06:07.160 --> 2:06:12.120 be understood. They're running forty five billion dollars specifically for 2:06:12.240 --> 2:06:16.160 immigration detention, and, as the American Immigration Council points out, 2:06:16.760 --> 2:06:20.760 that is at minimum five and a half billion more 2:06:20.880 --> 2:06:24.960 dollars per year than the entire budget of the entire 2:06:25.080 --> 2:06:31.920 federal prison system. Yeah, what the shit? That's again at minimum, 2:06:31.960 --> 2:06:33.800 that's it's like fourteen it's like fourteen and a half 2:06:33.800 --> 2:06:40.600 billion at minimum for detention, just just framgration attention. Again, significantly, 2:06:41.000 --> 2:06:44.400 like over fifty percent larger than the budget for the 2:06:44.640 --> 2:06:47.040 fucking entire federal prison system. They want to put into this. 2:06:47.600 --> 2:06:49.960 They're also giving out three point five billion dollars to 2:06:50.000 --> 2:06:52.640 state and local government spent on working with ICE. The 2:06:52.720 --> 2:06:55.320 American Immgration Council estimates this could be one hundred and 2:06:55.320 --> 2:06:58.720 twenty five thousand holding beds for people, which is and 2:06:58.880 --> 2:07:02.040 I quote, only just a bit below the current population 2:07:02.160 --> 2:07:03.840 of the entire federal prison system. 2:07:03.920 --> 2:07:05.960 They basically want to create a whole new prison system 2:07:06.120 --> 2:07:07.280 just for immigrants. 2:07:07.400 --> 2:07:09.520 Yes, yeah, and again and again, and I cannot emphasize 2:07:09.520 --> 2:07:12.080 this enough. The United States has one of the largest 2:07:12.080 --> 2:07:16.240 prison systems on Earth, and they want to the the largest. 2:07:16.800 --> 2:07:21.040 I think it's I think it's technically smaller than the Chinese. Actually, 2:07:21.080 --> 2:07:22.640 let let let me actually pull the numbers up. Yeah, 2:07:22.880 --> 2:07:26.240 I think it's technically for America per capita. Yeah, it's 2:07:26.280 --> 2:07:28.640 like it's like there's like no contest. Yeah. Well, the 2:07:28.640 --> 2:07:31.160 statistics are weird because there's countries that have like a 2:07:31.240 --> 2:07:33.720 really really small number of people, sure like in terms 2:07:33.760 --> 2:07:36.520 of like large countries or major countries for major companies, 2:07:36.640 --> 2:07:38.800 not even close. Yeah, not even close. And then now 2:07:38.840 --> 2:07:41.120 obviously that's also kind of like state prisons, but like 2:07:41.200 --> 2:07:43.120 still with the far federal prison systm is still like 2:07:44.200 --> 2:07:47.240 unfathomably massive. Yeah, and they basically want to double the 2:07:47.280 --> 2:07:50.840 size of its specifically just to fucking do this, just 2:07:51.040 --> 2:07:54.160 just to do these deportations. There's thirty billion dollars in 2:07:54.280 --> 2:07:58.280 this for direct deportations and just like the higher ten 2:07:58.360 --> 2:08:00.000 thousands more ICE agents. 2:07:59.720 --> 2:08:02.480 Which Trump's also been calling for in executive orders. 2:08:02.600 --> 2:08:05.760 Yeah, there is forty eight billion dollars for building the 2:08:05.880 --> 2:08:09.520 wall and like border inflict physical border enforcement infrastructure. There's 2:08:09.520 --> 2:08:14.280 an additional five billion dollars for checkpoints and like border patrol, 2:08:14.640 --> 2:08:18.000 like facilities, not posts, and shit. There's also about fifteen 2:08:18.080 --> 2:08:21.320 billion dollars for states to do deportation. 2:08:21.400 --> 2:08:21.600 Shit. 2:08:21.840 --> 2:08:24.960 There's so much unhinged anti immigrant shit in this bill 2:08:25.000 --> 2:08:26.520 that like, again, I can't, we don't have time to 2:08:26.520 --> 2:08:26.920 get into it. 2:08:27.000 --> 2:08:27.160 Yere. 2:08:27.440 --> 2:08:29.440 This is going to be a full episode on fucking Tuesday. 2:08:29.920 --> 2:08:32.160 This is why you have people like Steven Miller trying 2:08:32.200 --> 2:08:35.120 to rally the whole party in support of this bill, 2:08:35.160 --> 2:08:39.040 which massively raises the deficit, something that Elon's been complaining 2:08:39.080 --> 2:08:40.480 about quite famously. 2:08:40.680 --> 2:08:42.800 Yeah, five trillion dollar hole in the budget. It doesn't matter. 2:08:43.200 --> 2:08:46.240 Now there's all these Republican congressmen who constantly complain about 2:08:46.720 --> 2:08:50.520 the federal debt, who are totally fine increasing the federal 2:08:50.640 --> 2:08:56.120 debt massively, people compromising their fiscal conservatism yep, in support 2:08:56.160 --> 2:08:58.120 of a bill that furthers the United States as a 2:08:58.160 --> 2:09:01.160 white supremacist penal colony. And at the end of there's 2:09:01.160 --> 2:09:03.080 the congressmen vote against it, then that will be used 2:09:03.120 --> 2:09:06.440 against them in future elections. Being flanked from further on 2:09:06.480 --> 2:09:09.480 the right with attack ads claiming that these senators failed 2:09:09.560 --> 2:09:12.840 to round up the illegals in not voting for the 2:09:12.920 --> 2:09:14.120 big beautiful budget bill. 2:09:14.480 --> 2:09:16.640 Yeah, and I want to point this out, like they're 2:09:16.720 --> 2:09:20.000 not gonna stop at immigrants. I need to make this 2:09:20.160 --> 2:09:21.080 incredibly clear. 2:09:21.320 --> 2:09:23.240 Once you have this infrastructure, you have to use it. 2:09:23.440 --> 2:09:23.640 Yeah. 2:09:24.040 --> 2:09:26.240 Okay, Look like the people on the on like the 2:09:26.360 --> 2:09:28.520 furthest left of the US have talked about for a 2:09:28.560 --> 2:09:30.000 long time, but this is a country that is built 2:09:30.040 --> 2:09:34.880 on genocide, right. This is an apparatus that is designed 2:09:35.080 --> 2:09:41.240 to turn the US specifically into a machine to and again, 2:09:41.680 --> 2:09:42.920 and I need to point this out. The definition of 2:09:42.960 --> 2:09:46.320 genocide includes like like removing people from a place, right, Like, 2:09:46.440 --> 2:09:48.920 that is a genocide. If you force a bunch of 2:09:49.000 --> 2:09:51.480 people to if you fucking round them up, put them 2:09:51.520 --> 2:09:54.440 into camps, and then fucking send them somewhere else, that's 2:09:54.440 --> 2:09:55.960 a genocide. That is what they are trying to do. 2:09:56.480 --> 2:09:59.560 Like Laura Lumer has been talking today about like the 2:09:59.680 --> 2:10:01.960 numbers she was citing with sixty five million people, which 2:10:01.960 --> 2:10:04.040 is just every Latino person in the entire US. Yeah, 2:10:04.080 --> 2:10:05.000 that's Latino people. 2:10:05.040 --> 2:10:06.160 That's what she's talking about. 2:10:06.080 --> 2:10:09.080 Specifically talking about how she wants to feed them to alligators, 2:10:09.120 --> 2:10:10.080 which we'll talk about later. 2:10:10.200 --> 2:10:12.880 Yes, the context of the number was feeding them to allegates. 2:10:13.000 --> 2:10:15.120 Yeah, yeah, right, So, like Trump has been joking for 2:10:15.160 --> 2:10:17.840 a long time about how if Stephen Miller got his way, 2:10:17.840 --> 2:10:19.520 there would be like one hundred and fifteen million people 2:10:19.520 --> 2:10:21.320 in this cushion and they would all look like Stephen Miller, 2:10:21.760 --> 2:10:24.720 like that's where they're going. And that's not like, oh, 2:10:24.880 --> 2:10:26.920 this is blah blah blah. You're like, this is the 2:10:27.000 --> 2:10:29.000 infrastructure for them to be able to do this. And 2:10:29.160 --> 2:10:33.640 so like, killing this fucking bill is unbelievably important. We're 2:10:33.640 --> 2:10:35.840 going to get into more of the fucking unhinshit in here. 2:10:35.920 --> 2:10:38.120 But like they only passed it by one vote in 2:10:38.200 --> 2:10:40.840 the House last time. Yeah, and because of the way 2:10:40.960 --> 2:10:45.120 that that reconciliation works, right, if anything changes in the 2:10:45.160 --> 2:10:46.720 House version of the bill, it has to go back 2:10:46.760 --> 2:10:49.280 to the Senate, where they also only barely passed it 2:10:49.720 --> 2:10:51.800 by like buying off Susan Collins. 2:10:51.920 --> 2:10:53.480 It was a fifty to fifty split. 2:10:53.800 --> 2:10:57.920 Yeah, in this Senate. Yeah, with like Makowski voting for it, 2:10:58.040 --> 2:10:58.680 for example. 2:10:59.120 --> 2:11:02.360 Yeah, So, like you know, on the one hand, being 2:11:02.400 --> 2:11:05.440 able to pass this bill is precarious. On the other hand, 2:11:05.680 --> 2:11:09.160 if they do it. That limits the window for which 2:11:09.200 --> 2:11:12.280 we have to like make ice nonfunctional a lot because 2:11:12.280 --> 2:11:13.920 as they ramp up this capacity. It's going to take 2:11:13.920 --> 2:11:15.280 them a while to ramp up this capacity, right, even 2:11:15.280 --> 2:11:17.960 if this passes, But like they haven't had the capacity 2:11:18.000 --> 2:11:19.680 to do the genocide they've been trying to do, right, 2:11:20.520 --> 2:11:22.520 this will give it to them with this, with this 2:11:22.640 --> 2:11:25.800 amount of resources. Yeah, with the third largest military budget 2:11:25.840 --> 2:11:27.960 in the world, they can do this kind of shit, 2:11:28.720 --> 2:11:30.400 and we have to stop them before they get there. 2:11:30.680 --> 2:11:33.640 Yeah, Like this is one of those call everyone you 2:11:33.760 --> 2:11:37.640 can in Congress situations, like not always a big call 2:11:37.640 --> 2:11:38.360 your ramp person. 2:11:38.800 --> 2:11:41.480 Yeah, we're going to get to at the end of this, 2:11:41.840 --> 2:11:45.880 like how we've actually met. We've gotten provisions killed from 2:11:45.920 --> 2:11:47.360 this bill already. We're going to get to that later. 2:11:47.680 --> 2:11:51.040 We also need to talk about the Medicaid shit, because Garrison, 2:11:51.080 --> 2:11:52.320 you were saying, Oh, I don't think this can be 2:11:52.360 --> 2:11:54.919 considered the genocide, but it's so killing. I actually disagree 2:11:54.960 --> 2:11:59.040 with that, because, Okay, let's explain what's going on with Medicaid. 2:11:59.120 --> 2:12:01.280 They want to do a brillion dollars of cuts. I 2:12:01.320 --> 2:12:03.960 think it's like just slightly under a trillion or maybe 2:12:04.000 --> 2:12:06.480 it's actually a trillion dollars of cuts over the next 2:12:06.520 --> 2:12:09.560 ten years to Medicaid. They want to put an eighty 2:12:09.600 --> 2:12:13.120 hour a month work requirement from Medicaid and food stamps. Now, 2:12:13.360 --> 2:12:16.680 if you are disabled, right, this is just like a 2:12:16.880 --> 2:12:19.960 fuck you die proposal because there are a lot of 2:12:20.000 --> 2:12:21.920 people who fucking can't work eighty hours in a month, 2:12:22.000 --> 2:12:24.240 and this is just like literally each hit and die. 2:12:24.920 --> 2:12:25.040 Right. 2:12:25.640 --> 2:12:28.880 They're also expanding this shit the work requirements to They 2:12:28.920 --> 2:12:31.400 want these work requirements to apply to people who have 2:12:31.920 --> 2:12:35.280 children ages thirteen and older. So if you are trying 2:12:35.280 --> 2:12:37.760 to like raise a child, fuck you eat shit and die. 2:12:38.320 --> 2:12:41.640 And again also like this is both Medicaid and SNAP, 2:12:42.240 --> 2:12:45.760 so this is a targeted The estimates by the CBO, 2:12:46.040 --> 2:12:48.720 this is per PBS, the Correctional Bunchet Office estimates that 2:12:48.800 --> 2:12:52.680 it will by twenty to thirty four, eighteen point eight 2:12:52.880 --> 2:12:56.840 million people will be uninsured from this. It will get 2:12:56.920 --> 2:13:00.160 three million people off of food stamps at a lot 2:13:00.160 --> 2:13:01.720 of those people are just going to be disabled and 2:13:02.080 --> 2:13:04.560 unbelievable numbers people of those people are going to fucking die, 2:13:04.800 --> 2:13:07.840 And that's the point of this, right. Also, it's going 2:13:07.920 --> 2:13:10.280 to be just hideous for trans people who use Medicaid 2:13:10.320 --> 2:13:13.320 and SNAP at enormous rates because disabled and trans people 2:13:13.360 --> 2:13:16.480 are like the two poorest populations in the US. It's 2:13:16.880 --> 2:13:17.720 fucking hideous. 2:13:18.320 --> 2:13:21.680 These systems are already so hard to get in on 2:13:21.880 --> 2:13:24.800 and stay on, like both, like both SNAP and Medicaid, 2:13:25.120 --> 2:13:30.040 requires substantial revisions and reforms to make them easier to access. 2:13:30.360 --> 2:13:33.000 To strengthen the infrastructure capacity of these things to get 2:13:33.040 --> 2:13:35.520 more people on them, they need more funding. This is 2:13:36.240 --> 2:13:39.320 basically trying to take an already kind of dying system 2:13:39.400 --> 2:13:41.000 and just take it out of back and shoot it 2:13:41.040 --> 2:13:41.440 in the head. 2:13:41.600 --> 2:13:41.800 Yeah. 2:13:42.040 --> 2:13:44.440 Yeah, Well, and they intentionally just want it to be 2:13:44.640 --> 2:13:46.800 like harder and more frustrating and shitty to use, Like 2:13:47.000 --> 2:13:49.040 they literally rolled back that part of this bill is 2:13:49.120 --> 2:13:51.000 rolling back a bunch of reforms that Biden made to 2:13:51.040 --> 2:13:53.480 make it like slightly easier to get on. Yeah, and 2:13:53.600 --> 2:13:55.320 this is just going like, yeah, fuck you. This is 2:13:55.360 --> 2:13:59.680 going to be an absolute fucking catastrophe, not just because 2:14:00.120 --> 2:14:02.440 of the people that it immediately affects, although it is 2:14:02.520 --> 2:14:05.280 again going to kill unbelievable numbers of people. The other 2:14:05.400 --> 2:14:07.360 thing with this is that this is going to fucking 2:14:07.400 --> 2:14:11.240 annihilate rural hospitals, because rural hospitals get a huge amount 2:14:11.360 --> 2:14:15.160 of their money for Medicaid. And you know, there's a 2:14:15.240 --> 2:14:17.360 very good Kaiser Family Foundation report where they talk about 2:14:17.360 --> 2:14:19.560 how like, yeah, one in four people in rural areas 2:14:19.680 --> 2:14:23.880 get their health insurance from Medicaid, and it's estimated one 2:14:24.000 --> 2:14:28.080 hundred and fifty five billion dollars decrease in in money 2:14:28.120 --> 2:14:30.160 to hospitals and rural regions over the course of a decade. 2:14:30.520 --> 2:14:33.760 Those hospitals are already closing. Those hospitals are fucking gone. 2:14:33.880 --> 2:14:37.040 Like the this if this fucking passes as is and 2:14:37.280 --> 2:14:38.640 there is a provision in there, I that's like, oh, 2:14:38.680 --> 2:14:41.560 we're gonna spend fifty billion dollars on like to give 2:14:41.600 --> 2:14:43.720 money to royal hospitals. That's not enough. That's like that's 2:14:43.720 --> 2:14:45.760 a third of the amount that they're getting cut by, right, 2:14:46.160 --> 2:14:48.240 like and even and even if those hospitals are open, 2:14:48.360 --> 2:14:49.560 how the fuck are people going to pay for the 2:14:49.600 --> 2:14:52.480 treatments because they're now kickoff Medicaid. But this is going 2:14:52.520 --> 2:14:57.080 to fucking just absolutely eviscerate like the tiny remains of 2:14:57.160 --> 2:14:59.840 our rural healthcare system, which is a complete fucking shymbolic mess. 2:15:00.480 --> 2:15:02.720 This is just going to fucking liquidate it. It is 2:15:02.800 --> 2:15:05.560 going to cause mass suffering and death on a scale 2:15:05.680 --> 2:15:07.840 that like we are going to look back at the 2:15:07.880 --> 2:15:11.240 height of the opioid crisis and like in fucking nostalgia 2:15:11.560 --> 2:15:13.880 because we're going to have the opioid crisis and this 2:15:14.120 --> 2:15:18.400 at the same time. So it's real, real, fucking bad. 2:15:18.400 --> 2:15:20.000 I'm gonna mention a couple of other things that are 2:15:20.040 --> 2:15:23.160 in It's like, there's two points to this bill, right. 2:15:23.480 --> 2:15:25.360 One of the two points of it is to do 2:15:25.720 --> 2:15:28.360 is to again just like technically cleanse every non much 2:15:28.400 --> 2:15:30.600 person from the US. The second point of this bill 2:15:30.720 --> 2:15:33.040 is to give corporations four point five trillion dollars in 2:15:33.120 --> 2:15:36.720 tax cuts. It's mostly for rich people. That shit sucks. 2:15:37.600 --> 2:15:40.600 That's like the buy in for like the business people 2:15:40.800 --> 2:15:43.080 is you get these tax cuts. They also want to 2:15:43.200 --> 2:15:45.640 end the tax credit for electric cars because their response 2:15:45.680 --> 2:15:48.760 to climate change is fuck you die now again. As 2:15:49.000 --> 2:15:51.400 I mentioned, this only passed in the House by one 2:15:51.520 --> 2:15:53.480 vote last time, and that was actually a less extreme 2:15:53.600 --> 2:15:56.080 version of the Well, okay, there were some there's some 2:15:56.120 --> 2:15:57.520 more union shit in it that we'll talk about in 2:15:57.560 --> 2:16:00.200 the other episode in the House version of it, but 2:16:00.280 --> 2:16:03.200 this only passed in the House by one vote, and 2:16:03.280 --> 2:16:05.600 it only passed by one vote because three Democrats died 2:16:05.600 --> 2:16:09.880 in office. Great system's great, So things going great. However, Comma, 2:16:10.000 --> 2:16:12.920 it is possible to like, like, it is possible to 2:16:13.000 --> 2:16:15.320 beat these people. It is possible to get shit cut 2:16:15.400 --> 2:16:18.680 from this fucking bill. To end on a positive note 2:16:18.720 --> 2:16:21.080 on this, we talked a bit last we. 2:16:22.600 --> 2:16:26.240 Maybe last week, two weeks ago, one recent executive disorder. 2:16:26.640 --> 2:16:28.120 Yeah, yeah, we're talked about I think it's on two 2:16:28.120 --> 2:16:30.440 different months now about how we beat the fucking ban 2:16:30.600 --> 2:16:32.640 on using Medicaid for trans healthcare. And by we, I 2:16:32.760 --> 2:16:36.080 mean a combination of trans journalists like Maddie Castigan, Bia Levine, 2:16:36.240 --> 2:16:39.560 David Forbes, or like resident trans policy analyst Kurvin Green. 2:16:39.800 --> 2:16:41.880 I did some work on it, not like a huge amount, 2:16:41.959 --> 2:16:43.840 but like, I don't know, like it a little bit. 2:16:44.480 --> 2:16:46.440 A lot of like local queer orgs did a bunch 2:16:46.480 --> 2:16:50.279 of really good work on this, and like quite frankly, 2:16:50.400 --> 2:16:52.400 like the other people who killed this as every single 2:16:52.440 --> 2:16:54.400 one of you who like fucking called and emailed and 2:16:54.400 --> 2:16:58.080 harasser senator like Ron Whiten, there was like there was 2:16:58.160 --> 2:17:00.520 there was there was queer orgs like lobbying directly, and 2:17:00.560 --> 2:17:03.680 then also his office got fucking flooded by shit from 2:17:03.879 --> 2:17:07.920 like you who went and like screamed at them until 2:17:07.920 --> 2:17:11.280 they stopped doing this. And because of that, we got 2:17:11.320 --> 2:17:13.240 this thing killed from the fucking bill, and the Republicans 2:17:13.280 --> 2:17:16.200 are so mad about it that like they could theoretically 2:17:16.320 --> 2:17:17.800 re add it to the House one and there is 2:17:17.840 --> 2:17:19.720 a chance where they get so mad that they readd 2:17:19.760 --> 2:17:21.760 this to the House bill, and then that causes the 2:17:21.800 --> 2:17:23.640 House bill to fail in the Senate because if they 2:17:23.760 --> 2:17:26.440 readd this into the House build then reconciliation fails and 2:17:26.440 --> 2:17:28.280 they had to go back to the Senate again. So 2:17:28.560 --> 2:17:30.440 you know, it is possible to fucking beat these people. 2:17:31.040 --> 2:17:33.280 And it's also important to understand that this was not 2:17:33.440 --> 2:17:37.680 done by like the giant national like gating, like huge 2:17:37.800 --> 2:17:42.360 nonprofit like Human Rights Commission, bullshit council stuff. They did 2:17:42.400 --> 2:17:44.400 a little bit of stuff on the fucking trailing end. 2:17:44.520 --> 2:17:49.080 This was accomplished almost entirely by a combination of non 2:17:49.200 --> 2:17:52.000 white and working class trans journalists and organizers and just 2:17:52.160 --> 2:17:54.640 like a bunch of random fucking people who were like, 2:17:54.760 --> 2:17:58.880 each shit, fuck you get this out, and you know 2:17:59.320 --> 2:18:01.880 on a thing that would have killed unbelievab numbers of transpeople. 2:18:01.879 --> 2:18:04.240 We fought the Republican Party and we beat them, So 2:18:04.920 --> 2:18:08.400 this can be done. And this bill is not guaranteed 2:18:08.680 --> 2:18:12.000 to fucking pass. The bill can still be it can 2:18:12.040 --> 2:18:14.520 still be killed. Yeah, yeah, like it is. 2:18:14.640 --> 2:18:14.880 It is. 2:18:15.320 --> 2:18:18.800 It is devastating enough to like rural healthcare that even 2:18:18.920 --> 2:18:22.199 Republican senators are talking about not wanting to cut Medicaid. 2:18:22.680 --> 2:18:25.640 So it's a very unpopular bill. And when you tell 2:18:26.200 --> 2:18:28.920 just regular Republicans about the details of the bill, they 2:18:29.320 --> 2:18:31.640 don't like it. You can hey, they're being like the 2:18:31.720 --> 2:18:35.120 Republican media machine is being so selective and how they're 2:18:35.120 --> 2:18:38.000 talking about the bill, because if you discuss the way 2:18:38.120 --> 2:18:41.560 that it just rips the heart out of Medicaid, that's 2:18:41.840 --> 2:18:46.000 not what most older Republicans want because they actually also 2:18:46.080 --> 2:18:48.520 rely on Medicaid. So it's it's a it is a 2:18:48.560 --> 2:18:51.400 pretty unpopular bill, and the more people learn about the bill, 2:18:51.680 --> 2:18:53.640 the more they dislike it. And you can you can 2:18:53.680 --> 2:18:54.480 see stats on this. 2:18:54.800 --> 2:18:57.400 Yeah, and and the the unhinge thing about this right 2:18:57.520 --> 2:18:59.880 is that even with limited information most Republicans have about this, 2:19:00.200 --> 2:19:02.760 it still has like a twenty to thirty percent approval 2:19:02.840 --> 2:19:06.720 rating it's so unpopular even in the low information environment 2:19:06.760 --> 2:19:08.959 we're currently in. It it's like a twenty to thirty 2:19:08.959 --> 2:19:11.279 percent of proof rating. I think if everyone actually understood 2:19:11.280 --> 2:19:12.600 what was in the bill, I think it's roof rating 2:19:12.600 --> 2:19:15.560 would fucking drop even further. Yeah, nobody wants this, except 2:19:15.720 --> 2:19:18.240 except for like the overt genocide people. 2:19:18.760 --> 2:19:22.120 So most people, if they're not personally harmed, will know 2:19:22.200 --> 2:19:23.600 someone who's being personally harmed. 2:19:24.000 --> 2:19:24.200 Yeah. 2:19:24.959 --> 2:19:28.440 Do you know what is popular, James Uh? I can 2:19:28.520 --> 2:19:32.240 guess the products and services that support this podcast beautiful. 2:19:32.640 --> 2:19:48.440 Ooh you know what else is extremely popular? It is 2:19:48.680 --> 2:19:51.280 my hit theme song about tariffs. Let's fucking go. 2:19:52.080 --> 2:20:01.840 Sarry Ropy jazz rocky jazz Bart Sorry lacking. 2:20:03.560 --> 2:20:06.840 Rocking jazz rocking jazz bo. 2:20:08.360 --> 2:20:08.600 Mia. 2:20:09.080 --> 2:20:10.680 What do we have for tariff talk this week? 2:20:10.879 --> 2:20:13.760 So this is an important week for tariffs. Next week 2:20:13.800 --> 2:20:17.800 will be the really really critical one. So next allegedly, allegedly, 2:20:17.840 --> 2:20:20.240 we'll see he's skeptical. So so next week, all of 2:20:20.320 --> 2:20:22.720 the tariffs on every other country in the world from 2:20:22.840 --> 2:20:25.600 the Liberation Day tarif tariffs are supposed to like come off. 2:20:25.760 --> 2:20:26.760 We're gonna see what happens. 2:20:26.879 --> 2:20:29.760 I've i've i've become, it could happen. Here's biggest tariff denier. 2:20:29.959 --> 2:20:32.560 I'm I'm the tariff denier conspiracy theorist. 2:20:32.760 --> 2:20:35.720 Well, so here's the Okay, So, so the Trump Minstration 2:20:36.280 --> 2:20:38.760 is claiming that they cut a deal with Vietnam again 2:20:38.800 --> 2:20:40.600 as a kind of recording on Wednesday. I haven't actually 2:20:40.600 --> 2:20:44.000 seen anything from like Vietnam confirming this. It's just worry about. 2:20:44.000 --> 2:20:48.040 It's totally real. Who fucking knows. So the deal that 2:20:48.160 --> 2:20:51.320 he's saying is that Vietnam is going to levy or 2:20:51.600 --> 2:20:53.560 you actually going to levey a twenty percent tariff on 2:20:53.600 --> 2:20:56.000 all goods from Vietnam and a forty percent tariff on 2:20:56.080 --> 2:20:58.840 goods that are produced elsewhere and moved through Vietnam. Now, 2:20:59.400 --> 2:21:01.480 I know we're used to like looking at like one 2:21:01.600 --> 2:21:04.800 hundred and thirty percent tariffs, but I cannot emphasize enough 2:21:04.840 --> 2:21:06.680 that a like a twenty percent teriffs on good on 2:21:06.720 --> 2:21:09.920 goods from Vietnam is also just fucking ruinous. Most terriiff 2:21:09.959 --> 2:21:12.359 coverage on Vietnam focuses on the fact that like companies 2:21:12.400 --> 2:21:15.480 like Nintendo, for example, deliberately move production to Vietnam to 2:21:15.520 --> 2:21:18.800 avoid tariffs on China. Now coverage is like this because 2:21:18.800 --> 2:21:23.640 all of these people fucking learned about Vietnam producing things 2:21:23.879 --> 2:21:27.000 like a week ago, they missed a decade of capital 2:21:27.080 --> 2:21:29.400 flight along. I mean it's a decade and a half 2:21:29.480 --> 2:21:31.480 released like twenty and eleven. A bunch of Trainese capital 2:21:31.520 --> 2:21:33.600 has been flowing into Vietnam, like down to the maycount delta. 2:21:34.200 --> 2:21:36.400 So these tariffs are not just affecting the ability of 2:21:36.600 --> 2:21:39.560 China to evade the terariffs on it by like moving 2:21:40.080 --> 2:21:41.800 products to other countries, which has been a lot of 2:21:41.879 --> 2:21:44.720 what's been keeping the inflation from just fucking exploding has 2:21:44.800 --> 2:21:47.640 been the ability of producers to rout goods through places 2:21:47.680 --> 2:21:50.360 like Vietnam. This is also hitting one of the world's 2:21:50.400 --> 2:21:53.200 largest manufacturing hubs right and at developing manufacturing hub that 2:21:53.240 --> 2:21:55.320 has very good infrastructure, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera 2:21:55.560 --> 2:21:58.080 that capital from China had been moving to. This is 2:21:58.520 --> 2:22:02.160 still even this twenty percent terariff on Vietnam is like catastrophic. Yeah, 2:22:02.520 --> 2:22:05.240 So we'll see what happens next week if the rest 2:22:05.280 --> 2:22:07.720 of the turf tariffs kick in. I don't know what's 2:22:07.760 --> 2:22:10.039 going to happen. Who fucking knows. I've been leaning towards 2:22:10.080 --> 2:22:13.760 I think they will. But yeah, even even this stuff 2:22:13.959 --> 2:22:16.800 is really fucking bad and we're gonna start seeing the 2:22:16.840 --> 2:22:19.480 impacts of it. But yeah, this has been tariff talk. 2:22:19.800 --> 2:22:23.120 There's there's enough skepticism in the market about the tariffs 2:22:23.160 --> 2:22:26.600 in general that so far, not not not all, but 2:22:26.760 --> 2:22:29.680 but most corporations have been eating the tariffs in this 2:22:29.800 --> 2:22:33.440 short term. Not all like famously, like like like Walmart 2:22:33.520 --> 2:22:36.360 like has been has been raising some prices, but a 2:22:36.400 --> 2:22:40.000 bunch of corporations have been eating the eating the costs 2:22:40.440 --> 2:22:42.640 because they do not think these will these will be 2:22:43.120 --> 2:22:45.959 largely effective like long term, and I mean this will 2:22:46.000 --> 2:22:49.040 slowly change, especially as as more of these start like 2:22:49.520 --> 2:22:51.840 being taken into effect on like a rolling basis. We'll 2:22:51.879 --> 2:22:54.200 probably see corporations adjust to this, and we'll see the 2:22:54.320 --> 2:22:56.520 market adjust to this. Yeah, but I think that's that's 2:22:56.560 --> 2:23:00.879 part of why maybe people haven't been seeing the massive 2:23:01.000 --> 2:23:04.720 price hikes that were expected back, you know, like two 2:23:04.800 --> 2:23:05.240 months ago. 2:23:05.720 --> 2:23:05.920 Yeah. 2:23:06.120 --> 2:23:08.280 Well, and I think also again the important thing here 2:23:08.480 --> 2:23:10.480 is what this is going to do to logistics firms, 2:23:10.600 --> 2:23:15.040 which have very very low margins, and right now they've 2:23:15.080 --> 2:23:19.240 been surviving by just running shit through other places. But like, again, 2:23:19.280 --> 2:23:22.360 if this is if twenty percent is the rate on Vietnam, 2:23:22.560 --> 2:23:24.760 plus there's now a massive vicent of not to run 2:23:24.800 --> 2:23:30.439 goods through Vietnam. That's really bad because that like kneecaps 2:23:30.560 --> 2:23:34.160 the evasion tools people have been using. Yeah, so we'll 2:23:34.200 --> 2:23:34.800 see what happens. 2:23:34.920 --> 2:23:36.880 Yeah, wait for me and come into place. 2:23:37.160 --> 2:23:41.280 Yeah yeah, let's talk about Alligator Alcatraz. 2:23:42.600 --> 2:23:43.920 So fucking god. 2:23:44.480 --> 2:23:47.920 Florida's new immigration detention center has opened this Wednesday. It's 2:23:47.920 --> 2:23:50.960 built on a remote airport with aircraft hangars outfitted with 2:23:51.040 --> 2:23:54.400 cages and bunk beds to incarcerate between three to five 2:23:54.520 --> 2:23:57.520 thousand people. The facility is surrounded by a mote of 2:23:57.879 --> 2:24:03.560 alligators and pythons. They're calling it to Alligator Alcatraz. It 2:24:03.720 --> 2:24:05.920 was designed to be the most efficient deportation machine in 2:24:05.959 --> 2:24:09.800 the country. National Guard members will act as immigration judges 2:24:10.000 --> 2:24:13.880 on site to speed up deportation proceedings. I'm going to 2:24:13.920 --> 2:24:18.520 play a short clip here apologize for hearing DeSantis. 2:24:18.920 --> 2:24:21.160 I mean this is going to be Illegals will come in, 2:24:21.240 --> 2:24:25.000 they'll be processed, There'll be places for them to be housed. 2:24:25.520 --> 2:24:28.760 You'll have an ability for food, you'll be an ability 2:24:28.840 --> 2:24:32.680 for them to consult legal rights. If they have that 2:24:33.120 --> 2:24:34.599 because there is a process. 2:24:34.240 --> 2:24:35.000 That's involved with this. 2:24:35.440 --> 2:24:38.040 So the Florida Attorney General has called this a quote 2:24:38.320 --> 2:24:43.800 one stop shop for immigration enforcement. Come in, get your process, 2:24:43.959 --> 2:24:48.760 and fly out unquote Jesus. So immigrants will be flown here. 2:24:48.959 --> 2:24:52.200 They will have some degree of due process here, not 2:24:52.520 --> 2:24:56.720 really real due process, but enough nope to fast track 2:24:56.840 --> 2:25:01.640 their deportation. Stay basically at this facilit like less than 2:25:01.680 --> 2:25:03.760 a week, and get deported from it. It has a 2:25:03.840 --> 2:25:06.760 working airports. They want to start running thousands of people 2:25:07.280 --> 2:25:10.960 through his facility basically every week. Trump toured the facility 2:25:11.000 --> 2:25:15.120 on Tuesday and he said, quote Biden wanted me in here. Okay, 2:25:15.520 --> 2:25:18.080 he wanted me didn't work out that way, but he 2:25:18.160 --> 2:25:20.840 wanted me in here, that son of a bitch unquote, 2:25:21.360 --> 2:25:23.520 which is an insane thing to say, and but it 2:25:23.600 --> 2:25:28.240 gives you an actual look into why the current Trump 2:25:28.480 --> 2:25:32.039 administration and like like why Trump term two point zero 2:25:32.640 --> 2:25:34.720 is kind of different from one point no, because it's 2:25:34.800 --> 2:25:38.920 purely built on this like this like animosity. It's built 2:25:38.959 --> 2:25:42.080 on this idea that Trump thinks that the entire like 2:25:42.600 --> 2:25:45.400 entire world conspired against him to lock him up, and 2:25:45.520 --> 2:25:48.160 somehow he beat them and now he's getting his revenge 2:25:48.200 --> 2:25:51.039 on the entire world, right, This is what's that. That's 2:25:51.080 --> 2:25:54.400 how he's governing. It's because Biden wanted to send him 2:25:54.440 --> 2:25:56.800 to the alligator Alcatraz, but he was able to beat him, 2:25:57.320 --> 2:26:00.600 and now he's going to get revenge on everyone who's 2:26:00.640 --> 2:26:02.640 tried to stop him. And that's how he's running the 2:26:02.680 --> 2:26:04.720 country because that's the thing that he's obsessed with. He 2:26:04.800 --> 2:26:07.000 can't stop talking about Biden. He brings up Biden fucking 2:26:07.080 --> 2:26:11.080 every day because it's not about what Biden actually did. 2:26:11.160 --> 2:26:15.000 It's this like symbol of like everyone who's tried to 2:26:15.120 --> 2:26:17.560 like tried to beat me, everyone who's tried to like 2:26:17.640 --> 2:26:20.760 lock me up. Now I get to take my revenge 2:26:20.760 --> 2:26:22.720 out on them. They wanted to disappear me to this 2:26:22.760 --> 2:26:26.240 alligator concentration camp, which no they didn't because this thing 2:26:26.280 --> 2:26:29.000 fucking didn't exist a week ago. Like this, this facility 2:26:29.080 --> 2:26:31.160 was built in the last eight days. It's going to 2:26:31.240 --> 2:26:35.520 cost four hundred and fifty million dollars annually to operate. 2:26:36.040 --> 2:26:38.280 I remember when I went to the Charlie Kirk event 2:26:38.520 --> 2:26:40.920 in Atlanta, they're talking about like how much money we're 2:26:40.920 --> 2:26:43.960 spending to give immigrants like free cell phones and to 2:26:44.560 --> 2:26:47.600 give them housing. Meanwhile, you have not only this this 2:26:47.760 --> 2:26:51.879 bill that massively massively increases the deficit in ways we've 2:26:51.920 --> 2:26:54.520 never seen before. Plus on the local level, you have 2:26:54.560 --> 2:26:58.120 four hundred million dollars a year for these deportation facilities. 2:26:58.520 --> 2:27:01.320 And this facility specifically built on the Florida Everglades. It's 2:27:01.400 --> 2:27:04.359 not hurricane proof, of course, after one day of operating, 2:27:04.400 --> 2:27:07.960 they've already had flooding issues. This is an incredibly dangerous facility. 2:27:08.400 --> 2:27:11.560 It could lead to a natural disaster, could kill thousands 2:27:11.600 --> 2:27:14.160 of people here. And currently the state of Florida is 2:27:14.320 --> 2:27:18.280 selling alligator Alcatraz merchandise on their website. 2:27:18.400 --> 2:27:20.440 So always a grift as well, so you. 2:27:20.560 --> 2:27:24.440 Can get deportation merchandise, you can get concentration camp merchandise. 2:27:25.000 --> 2:27:27.120 This is the this is the soul of the of 2:27:27.200 --> 2:27:32.959 the Republican Party. For our last main story tonight, let's 2:27:33.000 --> 2:27:35.360 talk about how Trump and the Democrats are trying to 2:27:35.440 --> 2:27:39.800 stop the domentum. Because ranked choice voting has now been completed. 2:27:39.920 --> 2:27:44.360 Zoron has defeated Cuomo fifty six to forty four, twelve 2:27:44.440 --> 2:27:47.640 points which were talied in just the third round of 2:27:47.840 --> 2:27:51.040 ranked choice voting. The other tallies will come out like eventually, 2:27:51.160 --> 2:27:53.480 but this is like the last like legitimate tally because 2:27:53.520 --> 2:27:56.760 of like the elimination rules. Zoron got one hundred and 2:27:56.959 --> 2:27:59.280 fifty thousand more votes than Eric Adams one with in 2:27:59.360 --> 2:28:04.680 twenty twenty one, like phenomenal sweeps. It's wild, like we've 2:28:04.680 --> 2:28:09.480 never seen anything like this. Commy summer, Baby, let's go so. 2:28:10.360 --> 2:28:13.800 Republican Representative Andy Ogles of Tennessee sent a letter to 2:28:13.840 --> 2:28:18.560 Attorney General Pam Bondi asking to investigate Mamdani for denaturalization 2:28:18.840 --> 2:28:22.560 on the grounds that he obtained citizenship through misrepresentation or 2:28:22.680 --> 2:28:27.040 concealing material support for terrorism. I'm going to read this 2:28:27.200 --> 2:28:31.400 disgusting quote from Ogles because I think people should hear it. Quote, Zoron, 2:28:31.720 --> 2:28:36.119 little Mohammed Dani is an anti Semitic, socialist communist will 2:28:36.120 --> 2:28:38.080 destroy the great City of New York. He needs to 2:28:38.120 --> 2:28:40.320 be deported, which is why I'm calling for him to 2:28:40.320 --> 2:28:43.240 be the subject to denaturalization proceedings. 2:28:43.640 --> 2:28:46.480 This is a guy who who would be petrified if 2:28:46.520 --> 2:28:48.400 he ever had to walk around New York because seeing 2:28:48.440 --> 2:28:51.280 brown people is very scary when you know this kind 2:28:51.320 --> 2:28:51.680 of person. 2:28:52.560 --> 2:28:56.920 Zoron's been facing this huge wave of egregious like islamophobic attacks, 2:28:56.959 --> 2:29:00.440 including from the gimies of his own party. On a 2:29:00.560 --> 2:29:04.560 radio show, Democrat New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand falsely claimed 2:29:04.600 --> 2:29:07.400 that Mam Donnie had made references in support of quote 2:29:07.440 --> 2:29:10.880 unquote global Jihad. Outrageous stuff. 2:29:11.000 --> 2:29:11.200 Yeah. 2:29:11.480 --> 2:29:14.920 On Monday, she apologized for these comments in a private 2:29:15.000 --> 2:29:18.600 call to Mamdani and expressed that she believes that Zorn 2:29:18.760 --> 2:29:21.400 is sincere when he says he wants to protect all 2:29:21.480 --> 2:29:26.520 New Yorkers and combat anti Semitism, but fucking, fucking gross stuff. 2:29:26.840 --> 2:29:30.400 Yeah, it's it was so hideous, it's like two thousand 2:29:30.440 --> 2:29:31.200 and three level. 2:29:31.320 --> 2:29:32.960 It's. Yeah, it's really bad. 2:29:33.160 --> 2:29:35.240 Wait, you know, it's considerably worse than that. 2:29:35.440 --> 2:29:38.480 Like Bush gave the islamis the Fabric of America speech 2:29:38.520 --> 2:29:41.440 in two thousand and one. Yeah, Like we now have 2:29:41.800 --> 2:29:45.879 Democrats just knee jerking to fuck them all their terrorists. 2:29:45.600 --> 2:29:47.800 Like in their own party, and like many top New 2:29:47.879 --> 2:29:50.640 York Democrats have still refused to endorse the now like 2:29:50.800 --> 2:29:56.080 Democratic nominee, including Governor Kathy Hochel, House Minority Leader Hakim Jeffries, 2:29:56.080 --> 2:29:57.120 and Sonather Chuck Schumer. 2:29:57.320 --> 2:30:00.600 Jeffries posted in support of him today, some of them. 2:30:00.520 --> 2:30:03.560 Have expressed like support of him, specifically support against Islama 2:30:03.600 --> 2:30:07.879 public attacks, but have explicitly refused to endorse him as 2:30:07.920 --> 2:30:11.240 a nominee, which is like it's vote blue no matter 2:30:11.320 --> 2:30:14.920 who until you have like a Muslim democratic socialist and 2:30:15.040 --> 2:30:17.440 it's like we have to discuss, Like, you know, there's 2:30:17.480 --> 2:30:21.080 some we have some skeptical things about his candidacy and 2:30:21.440 --> 2:30:23.080 his ability to keep New Yorker safe. 2:30:23.160 --> 2:30:26.960 You're like, oh boy, yeah, yeah, you voted for the 2:30:27.040 --> 2:30:29.080 three people who die. You endorsed the three people who 2:30:29.200 --> 2:30:31.800 died in office. I guess like since the last election 2:30:31.959 --> 2:30:38.119 in the House, like now, the attacks have continued. On Monday, 2:30:38.200 --> 2:30:41.800 Fox News supporter Peter Doucy asked White House pre Secretary 2:30:41.879 --> 2:30:48.279 Caroline Levitt about deporting Zoran. Let's play the clip, Peter thak. 2:30:48.200 --> 2:30:52.640 Caroline, does President Trump want Zoran Mamdani deported? 2:30:53.840 --> 2:30:55.800 I haven't heard him say that. I haven't heard him 2:30:55.840 --> 2:30:58.360 call for that, but certainly he does not want this 2:30:58.879 --> 2:31:01.440 individual to be a I was just speaking to him 2:31:01.520 --> 2:31:06.080 about it and his radical policies that will completely crush 2:31:06.240 --> 2:31:08.400 New York City, which is obviously a city that the 2:31:08.440 --> 2:31:10.000 President holds near and dear to his heart. 2:31:10.160 --> 2:31:12.720 There's this Congressman Annie Ogles. He wants the Attorney General 2:31:12.760 --> 2:31:17.160 Bondi to explore denaturalization proceedings because he thinks Mom Donnie 2:31:18.080 --> 2:31:23.119 could have misrepresented or concealed material support for terrorism based 2:31:23.160 --> 2:31:26.760 on rap lyrics. He wrote in twenty seventeen. Does President 2:31:26.800 --> 2:31:29.520 Trump think this is a worthwhile use of the Attorney 2:31:29.560 --> 2:31:30.160 General's time? 2:31:30.560 --> 2:31:32.440 Well, I'll let the President speak to that. I have 2:31:32.560 --> 2:31:34.959 not seen those claims, but surely if they are true, 2:31:35.040 --> 2:31:36.760 it's something that should be investigated. 2:31:37.120 --> 2:31:37.160 It. 2:31:37.200 --> 2:31:40.240 It's ridiculous to suggest that you could wrap your material 2:31:40.280 --> 2:31:42.680 support for terrorism. That they have to prove that you 2:31:43.360 --> 2:31:47.160 materially supportated group which he is listed to FTO. 2:31:47.840 --> 2:31:48.040 Yeah. 2:31:48.800 --> 2:31:53.199 Then on Tuesday day later, Trump himself attacked Zoran, threatening 2:31:53.320 --> 2:31:56.320 to arrest him if he interferes with ICE. 2:31:57.520 --> 2:31:59.560 Your beloved New York City may well be led by 2:31:59.600 --> 2:32:05.160 a commmunists soon, Zorhan Mundami, who in his nomination speech 2:32:05.280 --> 2:32:08.200 said he will defy ICE and will not allow ICE 2:32:08.280 --> 2:32:10.520 to arrest criminal aliens in New York City. 2:32:10.840 --> 2:32:13.759 Your message to communist Zorhan Mundami. 2:32:13.480 --> 2:32:16.880 Well, then we'll have to arrest him. Look, we don't 2:32:16.879 --> 2:32:19.120 need a communist in this country. But if we have one, 2:32:19.120 --> 2:32:21.160 I'm going to be watching over them very carefully on 2:32:21.280 --> 2:32:22.160 behalf of the nation. 2:32:23.360 --> 2:32:26.959 Later, Trump suggested that Zoron quote unquote may be here 2:32:27.240 --> 2:32:31.200 illegally and that the Trump administration would be looking into that, 2:32:31.640 --> 2:32:36.840 while in the same clip praising the now independent nominee 2:32:37.040 --> 2:32:39.279 and current mayor Eric Adams. 2:32:39.480 --> 2:32:43.200 Independent running mayor Adams, who's a very good person. I 2:32:43.320 --> 2:32:45.040 helped him out a little bit. He had a problem 2:32:45.120 --> 2:32:47.520 and he was unfairly hurt. 2:32:47.440 --> 2:32:48.160 Over this question. 2:32:48.400 --> 2:32:51.240 He made a statement to the effect that this is 2:32:51.360 --> 2:32:54.160 terrible New York City can have all these immigrants come in, 2:32:54.879 --> 2:32:57.160 and like he was indicted the following day. 2:32:57.640 --> 2:33:02.280 Just clearly admitting to corruption. He had a little problem, 2:33:02.400 --> 2:33:03.360 and I helped him out. 2:33:03.560 --> 2:33:08.400 Yeah, yeah, just a little problem with accepting massive payments 2:33:08.440 --> 2:33:11.320 from Turkey to fucking corrupt his whole city. 2:33:12.280 --> 2:33:14.640 And I want to say here too, like I was 2:33:14.760 --> 2:33:18.360 watching just like Trump openly targeting Tom Donnie, like all 2:33:18.440 --> 2:33:20.960 of the Democrats who are attacking him are just on 2:33:21.120 --> 2:33:22.600 the side of Trump here. And this has been a 2:33:22.600 --> 2:33:25.400 significant problem the entire administration is that one of Trump's 2:33:25.440 --> 2:33:30.119 like core basis of support is like sitting democratic fucking legislatures. 2:33:30.160 --> 2:33:33.280 It's like fucking Chuck Schumer. Yeah, like all of these people. 2:33:33.520 --> 2:33:35.720 Yeah, they're working with Trump rhetorically on all. 2:33:35.640 --> 2:33:37.960 Of this and sometimes literally with like Schumer voting for 2:33:38.040 --> 2:33:43.080 the original like budget resolution shit. Like they're just they're 2:33:43.160 --> 2:33:44.440 just actively collaborating. 2:33:45.000 --> 2:33:49.000 On Tuesday, is or unreleased a statement regarding Trump's comments, saying, quote, 2:33:49.120 --> 2:33:51.040 the President of the United States just threatened to have 2:33:51.160 --> 2:33:53.720 me arrested, stripped of my citizenship, and put in a 2:33:53.800 --> 2:33:56.240 detention camp, and deport it. Not because they have broken 2:33:56.240 --> 2:33:58.560 any law, but because I will refuse to let ice 2:33:58.680 --> 2:34:01.959 terrorize our city. Don't just represent an attack on our democracy, 2:34:01.959 --> 2:34:03.520 but an attempt to send a message to every New 2:34:03.600 --> 2:34:05.800 Yorker who refuses to hide in the shadows. If you 2:34:05.879 --> 2:34:07.880 speak up, they will come for you. We will not 2:34:08.000 --> 2:34:11.680 accept this intimidation. That Trump included praise for Eric Adams 2:34:11.760 --> 2:34:15.039 and his authoritarian threats is unsurprising but highlights the urgency 2:34:15.080 --> 2:34:17.600 of bringing an end to this mayor's time in City 2:34:17.640 --> 2:34:20.400 Hall at the very moment when mega Republicans are attempting 2:34:20.440 --> 2:34:22.600 to destroy the social safety net, take millions of New 2:34:22.640 --> 2:34:26.000 Yorkers off healthcare, and enrich their billionaire donors. At the 2:34:26.040 --> 2:34:28.400 expense of working families. It is a scandal that Eric 2:34:28.400 --> 2:34:32.920 Adams echoes this president's division, distraction and hate. Voters will 2:34:33.000 --> 2:34:36.720 resoundingly reject it. In November, unquote and former mayor of 2:34:36.720 --> 2:34:40.440 Build a Blasio came out in support of Zoran, saying, quote, 2:34:40.520 --> 2:34:42.600 Donald Trump will have to go through a lot of 2:34:42.720 --> 2:34:45.240 us first. If he wants to arrest a Zor Mamdani, 2:34:45.520 --> 2:34:47.880 We New Yorkers will put a human shield around him 2:34:47.920 --> 2:34:50.840 if we need to. No one gets to intimidate us. 2:34:51.120 --> 2:34:54.080 Build a Blasio. If you get arrested doing the human shield, 2:34:54.720 --> 2:34:57.240 we will forgive you for one of your many crimes. 2:34:59.240 --> 2:34:59.440 Yeah. 2:35:00.000 --> 2:35:01.480 I w off for rest Bill. 2:35:01.680 --> 2:35:04.160 Good for Bill, But no, everyone needs to do this, 2:35:04.600 --> 2:35:06.840 Like everyone needs to get behind him right now. If 2:35:06.840 --> 2:35:09.320 he's gonna be the target of this like denaturalization, push 2:35:09.640 --> 2:35:12.360 for this. Yeah, if he becomes like the symbol of 2:35:12.440 --> 2:35:15.840 everything that Trump hates, Like Democrats need to fall in 2:35:15.959 --> 2:35:19.400 line fucking right now. And you can't be attacking this 2:35:19.520 --> 2:35:23.199 guy for like innate isamophobia. Yeah, it's it's it's outrageous. 2:35:23.720 --> 2:35:23.879 Yeah. 2:35:23.959 --> 2:35:26.680 He also has made one of the funniest music videos 2:35:26.720 --> 2:35:29.720 I have ever seen. There's some good stuff it's video 2:35:29.720 --> 2:35:31.920 about how much he loves his grandmother with Mada Jeoffrey, 2:35:31.959 --> 2:35:32.880 and it is outstanding. 2:35:33.320 --> 2:35:35.400 Now we do have some good news to close this 2:35:35.480 --> 2:35:38.480 episode on, including the return of the Stinky Musk segment. 2:35:38.959 --> 2:35:43.000 In Pennsylvania, Tesla turned into train tracks and drove into 2:35:43.040 --> 2:35:47.280 an un drove into an oncoming train. It's okay, people 2:35:47.360 --> 2:35:49.200 were able to exit the car before the grass. But 2:35:49.720 --> 2:35:52.160 great stuff, great stuff in the self driving car department. 2:35:52.360 --> 2:35:54.320 Oh good, and Trump. 2:35:54.320 --> 2:35:58.600 Truthed on Monday, quote Elon might get more subsidy than 2:35:58.680 --> 2:36:04.360 any human being in histree by far. And without subsidies, 2:36:04.400 --> 2:36:06.800 Elon would probably have to close up shop and head 2:36:06.879 --> 2:36:10.600 back home to South Africa. No more rocket lunches, satellites 2:36:10.600 --> 2:36:13.720 are electric car production, and our country would save a fortune. 2:36:14.000 --> 2:36:16.560 Perhaps we should have Doge take a good, hard look 2:36:16.600 --> 2:36:19.520 at this big money to be saved. And then on 2:36:19.600 --> 2:36:21.920 July first, on his way to Alligator Alcatraz, Trump was 2:36:22.000 --> 2:36:24.200 questioned again about Elon and said, quote, We'll have to 2:36:24.240 --> 2:36:27.400 take a look. We might have to put Doge on Elon. 2:36:27.760 --> 2:36:30.720 You know what that Doge is, that monster that might 2:36:30.840 --> 2:36:33.920 have to go back and eat Elon. Wouldn't that be terrible? 2:36:34.080 --> 2:36:36.960 He gets a lot of subsidies. Elon responded to this 2:36:37.160 --> 2:36:40.920 on X the Everything app quote so tempting to escalate 2:36:41.000 --> 2:36:44.520 this so so tempting, but I will refrain for now. 2:36:45.040 --> 2:36:47.160 I will say Musk has also been talking about four 2:36:47.240 --> 2:36:48.959 by a new party if this budget bill. 2:36:48.879 --> 2:36:51.720 Passes, so god, I hope so would be the funniest thing. 2:36:53.520 --> 2:36:55.240 What other good news do we have to end on here? 2:36:55.680 --> 2:36:58.720 I think the other good news was the the Asylum 2:36:58.840 --> 2:37:01.120 van getting Star up to the coach. Oh we already 2:37:01.120 --> 2:37:01.680 did that, good news. 2:37:01.760 --> 2:37:02.600 Yeah, we already did that. 2:37:03.040 --> 2:37:04.200 Oh that that's it? 2:37:04.320 --> 2:37:04.480 Then? 2:37:04.560 --> 2:37:09.520 Yeah, mm hmmm, all right. Well, people like ED being 2:37:09.600 --> 2:37:12.720 an hour long. I've been the longer, the better. 2:37:12.920 --> 2:37:14.160 It's one thing they say about ED. 2:37:14.600 --> 2:37:18.199 It goes without saying James, we reported the news. 2:37:19.400 --> 2:37:20.360 We reported the news. 2:37:26.360 --> 2:37:29.520 Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week 2:37:29.600 --> 2:37:31.480 from now until the heat death of the universe. 2:37:32.240 --> 2:37:32.840 It could happen. 2:37:32.879 --> 2:37:34.720 Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 2:37:34.959 --> 2:37:37.960 For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 2:37:38.080 --> 2:37:42.000 fool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio. 2:37:41.360 --> 2:37:43.640 App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever. 2:37:43.440 --> 2:37:46.200 You listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for 2:37:46.280 --> 2:37:49.400 it could happen here, listed directly in episode descriptions. Thanks 2:37:49.440 --> 2:37:49.960 for listening,