Speaker 1: Cool media.
Speaker 2: Hey everybody, Robert Evans here and I wanted to let
Speaker 2: you know this is a compilation episode. So every episode
Speaker 2: of the week that just happened is here in one
Speaker 2: convenient and with somewhat less ads package for you to
Speaker 2: listen to in a long stretch if you want. If
Speaker 2: you've been listening to the episodes every day this week,
Speaker 2: there's going to be nothing new here for you, but
Speaker 2: you can make your own decisions.
Speaker 3: Welcome it could happen here. A podcast that is in
Speaker 3: many cases about organizing. I AnGR host MEA Wong and
Speaker 3: with me is one of the most experienced organizers I know,
Speaker 3: Margaret Kiljoy.
Speaker 4: Oh no, hi, I'm a little out of practice, but
Speaker 4: I have done it a lot.
Speaker 3: You know, Margaret says this and also has been doing
Speaker 3: shit for like one bazillion years. This is and I
Speaker 3: will say this, the sign of you that you are
Speaker 3: running into a good organizer is when you talk to
Speaker 3: them about their organizing and they immediately start downplaying it.
Speaker 3: That's when you know you haven't captured a good organizer.
Speaker 3: If they started immediately going, I'm the best fucking organizer
Speaker 3: in the world. Run like hell, this is an asshole
Speaker 3: who sucks. Somebody's like, ah, like I did this a
Speaker 3: million years ago, I'm not good at it. Yeah it
Speaker 3: did matter, blah blah blah blah. Very good organizer, thank you. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I remember once I went to a thing wait that
Speaker 4: was put on and there was this, uh they were
Speaker 4: kind of turfy people who are coming through and we
Speaker 4: didn't totally know that right away, and their their pitch
Speaker 4: about why they were such a good experienced organizers, as
Speaker 4: one of them was like, and this person has been
Speaker 4: organizing for more than three years, and it was just like, Okay,
Speaker 4: every person you are giving this talk to has done
Speaker 4: this for at least three times as.
Speaker 3: Long as that.
Speaker 4: And don't get me wrong, if you're listening and you've
Speaker 4: been organizing for three years, you've learned a lot.
Speaker 3: I'm not trying to tell you you're a bad organizer.
Speaker 4: You might be a better organizer and someone's been doing
Speaker 4: it longer, but don't use that as your selling point.
Speaker 3: Oh anyway, that's very funny. Yeah, So okay, this episode,
Speaker 3: we are asking you a very very important question. Okay,
Speaker 3: you want to change something about the world. I don't
Speaker 3: know what that thing is that is up that is
Speaker 3: for you to determine the question that you need to
Speaker 3: be asking is are you organizing because you want to
Speaker 3: feel cool? Or are you organizing because you want whatever
Speaker 3: you're doing to fucking work? And if you want you're
Speaker 3: organizing to work, literally no matter what it is, you
Speaker 3: actually need to listen to this episode and you need
Speaker 3: to have some rudimental knowledge of the thing we are
Speaker 3: about to talk about, because if you do not, your
Speaker 3: organizing will fail. If you cannot do this, the thing
Speaker 3: we're going to talk about in this episode, if you
Speaker 3: cannot do this, everything else you know, all of your experience,
Speaker 3: all of your knowledge, all of your passion, all of
Speaker 3: it is fucking useless because the actual work of organizing
Speaker 3: is incredibly unglamorous. It is un sexy, a lot of
Speaker 3: it is very time consuming, a lot of it is
Speaker 3: not cool. It is you sitting there and talking to
Speaker 3: a bunch of people. Yeah, And if you want your
Speaker 3: movement to succeed, you have to be able to do
Speaker 3: this kind of like groundwork, logistical work, because if you don't,
Speaker 3: it won't work. So what we are going to teach
Speaker 3: you the very very very very basics of in this
Speaker 3: episode is a social technology that has been developed over
Speaker 3: the course of literal centuries of movements. Right, this is
Speaker 3: something that has been passed down and refined, like through
Speaker 3: generations and generations of organizers. I mean, I could do
Speaker 3: a genealogy of this. A lot of the modern stuff
Speaker 3: sort of came through the Quakers, moved through the civil
Speaker 3: rights movements, moved through the anti war movements, moved through
Speaker 3: like in Vietnam, moved to a whole bunch of other movements.
Speaker 3: Like to be passed out to you today, this is
Speaker 3: a complicated social technology. It does not sound complicated. If
Speaker 3: you do not know how to do this, it is
Speaker 3: impossible to try to replicate on the fly. And that
Speaker 3: is we are going to explain to you the very
Speaker 3: basis of how to run a meeting. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I really like this way of phrasing it, that it's
Speaker 4: a technology, Like it's a way of applying ideas to
Speaker 4: get something to happen, even if a lot of it
Speaker 4: is instead there is an art to it, but like, yeah, no,
Speaker 4: there's there's stuff you can like learn and apply and
Speaker 4: it's Yeah, technology is a good way of framing it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And it's one of these things where you know
Speaker 3: you can kind of if you don't know how to
Speaker 3: do this, and you have people you can kind of
Speaker 3: sort of maybe approximate something that is a little bit functional,
Speaker 3: and the moment it runs into a stress point, it
Speaker 3: will collapse completely. And this is a thing that like,
Speaker 3: you know, I have talked to I have done a
Speaker 3: lot of these. I have talked to a lot of
Speaker 3: people who've done this. I have like I have been
Speaker 3: in a rooms of people knew how to run meetings.
Speaker 3: I've been in rooms people didn't know how to run meetings.
Speaker 3: I have talked with a bunch of people who have
Speaker 3: been in rooms who don't know how to run meetings,
Speaker 3: and like there are rooms of people with collectively hundreds
Speaker 3: of PhDs and because nobody in the room knew how
Speaker 3: to fucking run a meeting, complete disaster there. Organizing didn't work. Yeah, right,
Speaker 3: you have to be able to do this, And it
Speaker 3: doesn't really matter. You know, we're not gonna get that
Speaker 3: much into like what mechanism are using to make decisions
Speaker 3: because this is this is like even like a layer
Speaker 3: below that and so this is not that you can
Speaker 3: use it, you know, regardless of whether you're doing consensus
Speaker 3: and like, you know, like and I think that like
Speaker 3: if you're trying to make a decision as a group, right,
Speaker 3: and you're trying to get everyone to want to do
Speaker 3: the thing and do it. I think that some version
Speaker 3: of consensus is a good idea. But this can be
Speaker 3: for a sort of just like a you know, like
Speaker 3: a majority of world democratic process, whatever process you were
Speaker 3: using to decide things. You need some kind of structure
Speaker 3: thing there. Otherwise it's just not going to function, Like
Speaker 3: none of it will. What's wild to me is that
Speaker 3: it's almost like the important thing is that there is
Speaker 3: a structure. There's so many different structures you can use.
Speaker 3: Like when we come at this, I don't actually know.
Speaker 3: I'm the podcast idiot on this episode, and me is
Speaker 3: going to explain some to me. But like there's a
Speaker 3: lot of different ways to do this, and the important way,
Speaker 3: the important thing is is that you do one of them.
Speaker 3: Like there are ways that I think are better or worse, right,
Speaker 3: but you do actually need to create a structure and
Speaker 3: move forward with that structure in order to get anything done,
Speaker 3: which is the whole secret of all organizing. Like that
Speaker 3: is what organizing is is you actually have to say,
Speaker 3: not only do I want something to get done, but
Speaker 3: I'm going to figure out the steps by which to
Speaker 3: get that done. And it also applies to meetings. Yeah yeah,
Speaker 3: and like that kind of undergirting thing of figuring out
Speaker 3: how how you're going to do it, right, like that
Speaker 3: that's the part of organizing that as you're saying, it's
Speaker 3: like nothing works without it, because it is like half
Speaker 3: of what organizing is. And otherwise you were just saying
Speaker 3: things into the wind. And admittedly my job is to
Speaker 3: say things into the wind, so I hope you do
Speaker 3: it so like, you know, I have a little bit
Speaker 3: of respect to that. But also you need to have
Speaker 3: some way of getting other people to do things.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it's like a when you sit around with your
Speaker 4: friends and like, oh, someone should do this. No one's
Speaker 4: actually named someone. Yeah you know, I mean somewhere, there's
Speaker 4: a non binary person.
Speaker 3: Somewhere, but shout outs to someone.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, if you're listening to someone, congratulations you're a
Speaker 4: master level troll.
Speaker 3: But like my friend, don't ask their name was don't ask.
Speaker 4: It's great anyway, whatever, but but someone needs to get
Speaker 4: something done. And if you leave a thing being like ah,
Speaker 4: someone should do this, you didn't organize. You have to say, yeah,
Speaker 4: this is what the following people are doing.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 4: Also shout out also to everyone who has been in
Speaker 4: meetians with me and are like Mark, I'm insufferable in meetings.
Speaker 4: I try really hard, but anyway, whatever.
Speaker 3: Oh god, okay, okay. So this largely is going to
Speaker 3: be like how to run a meeting? What a one.
Speaker 3: We're going to start at like zero zero zero, which
Speaker 3: is you need a place to meet, and that place
Speaker 3: to meet has to be accessible to everyone who's trying
Speaker 3: to go to the meeting. This is a thing that
Speaker 3: people screw up a lot. It is not that hard
Speaker 3: to find the place as accessible for everyone to go.
Speaker 3: You can do this. There are lots of places you
Speaker 3: can have meetings, depending on how sensitive the meeting is,
Speaker 3: you know, how formal and formal it is. I've done
Speaker 3: meetings and restaurants and meetings and bars of them in libraries,
Speaker 3: people use churches sometimes like queer centers, union halls, parks.
Speaker 3: I want to shit talk bars really quickly.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I don't think bars is a great idea, but.
Speaker 4: I don't think it's accessible to people who are under
Speaker 4: twenty one, and I don't think it's accessible to people
Speaker 4: who have problems being around drinking.
Speaker 3: That said they happen there.
Speaker 4: And I'm not trying to say you're bad for having
Speaker 4: had meetings there, but I just want to say that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Bars is one that like people go to a
Speaker 3: lot and like, yeah, there's definitely issues with it, right,
Speaker 3: But I don't know, like you can have them people's houses. Yeah,
Speaker 3: sometimes you can like go into like a mesa or whatever.
Speaker 3: You can go have a meeting there. You can get
Speaker 3: people to just like go out somewhere and do it.
Speaker 3: You know, I don't know, like you you are capable
Speaker 3: of thinking of lots of places where you could have meetings,
Speaker 3: but you actually do need to have a location. And
Speaker 3: this is actually again I've talked about this before, but
Speaker 3: it's like one of the organizing things is actually really important,
Speaker 3: is like knowing how to get a room for a
Speaker 3: meeting or get it room for something to happen. You
Speaker 3: have to be able to do this. This is like
Speaker 3: zero o zero, like okay, you know, okay, so you've
Speaker 3: now achieved this, and congratulations, you clowns have now achieved
Speaker 3: a location. I'm going to stick a provisional thing in here,
Speaker 3: which is this has jumping the gun a little bit,
Speaker 3: but I need to put in here. Do not use
Speaker 3: Robert rules of Order. One of the things you will
Speaker 3: be told, and if you have been in organizations before,
Speaker 3: a lot of them use the thing called Robert Tools
Speaker 3: of Orders, which is this old, like incredibly elaborate set
Speaker 3: of parliamentary procedures. Do not use them. They suck. And
Speaker 3: this gets into before we can even talk about what
Speaker 3: a meeting is right and how you do it. You
Speaker 3: really really do not want your meetings to get bogged
Speaker 3: down in everyone having to learn one million lines of
Speaker 3: parliamentary procedure. And this is a problem for any meeting
Speaker 3: technology that you use, because they all do involve a
Speaker 3: little bit of technical stuff because you have to get
Speaker 3: people to be able to do things. But one thing
Speaker 3: with Robert rules of Order is that like it's like
Speaker 3: hundreds of pages, right, and in those hundreds of pages
Speaker 3: are the recipe for one asshole to derail your entire
Speaker 3: meeting by doing a whole bunch of unhinged parliamentary shit.
Speaker 3: I have seen this happen. It sucks. This is something
Speaker 3: that you can technically do in any meeting structure, but
Speaker 3: the mora paque, the rules of the meeting are the
Speaker 3: easier the shit is to do, and the harder it
Speaker 3: is to be like please stop.
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's you have to have a certain amount of
Speaker 4: flexibility in the way that you do things. Because every system,
Speaker 4: it's the problem with law as a concept, right, is
Speaker 4: every system can you can find loopholes. And anyone who's
Speaker 4: been in a lot of meetings has seen people learn
Speaker 4: how to abuse the process in order to get their
Speaker 4: position to win by making everyone else too tired to continue,
Speaker 4: or to use up all of the space in the room,
Speaker 4: or you know whatever. But I think that, yeah, this
Speaker 4: idea that the rules that are used in your meeting,
Speaker 4: I think that a very a good facilitator, which is.
Speaker 3: Something that I tend to believe in for meetings.
Speaker 4: Is capable of explaining the process in such a way
Speaker 4: that even when a lot of people come who are
Speaker 4: not familiar with the process, they will leave familiar with
Speaker 4: the process.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, Like to that sort of end, if you
Speaker 3: need a like, okay, we need a written procedure thing,
Speaker 3: the thing I would recommend is called Rusty's Rules of Order,
Speaker 3: which is an unbelievably paired down version of Roberts Rules
Speaker 3: of Order that was like specifically developed to be used
Speaker 3: in like union circles in activist circles, and it's like
Speaker 3: the total PDF of it is twenty five pages. That
Speaker 3: makes it sound way longer than it actually is. Like
Speaker 3: several of those pages are like a glossary, and like
Speaker 3: the cover, it's very easy to read. It's easy to
Speaker 3: understand if you have to use a like this is
Speaker 3: a formalized procedure. Do rusties, don't do Roberts. This is
Speaker 3: just a I need to do this before we say
Speaker 3: anything else because a bunch of people are going to
Speaker 3: push you to use this and it sucks. So having
Speaker 3: gotten that out of the way, we can now get
Speaker 3: into okay things from meetings.
Speaker 4: I was supposed to make a joke about at the
Speaker 4: top of all this. I'm sorry everyone. Everyone has been
Speaker 4: waiting for me to make this joke. I'm certain, but Mia,
Speaker 4: which one of us is going to keep stacked during
Speaker 4: this meeting so that we know who can.
Speaker 3: Talk products and services support this podcast? Are gonna keep
Speaker 3: stack and we're gonna go to the right the funt.
Speaker 3: Now we are.
Speaker 4: Back, and I really just want to say, as timekeeper,
Speaker 4: I'm a little bit upset about how much time that
Speaker 4: those ads used during the meeting and if we can.
Speaker 3: Not fucking damn Okay, we will explain what a stack
Speaker 3: is and sorry it is in a second. However, COMMA,
Speaker 3: So things you need to do at the very short
Speaker 3: of a meeting. You need to take like two minutes
Speaker 3: to do this, but you need to explain how the
Speaker 3: meeting fucking works, and you need to assign everyone rolls.
Speaker 3: And you can't assume that everyone who is going to
Speaker 3: be in this meeting understands how the rules work, like
Speaker 3: you cannot. And this is something I've run into, is
Speaker 3: like you can't assume that everyone understands what your hand
Speaker 3: signals are or even just basic like everyone has been
Speaker 3: in a thing before and understands what a stack is, Right,
Speaker 3: you can't assume that unless you know everyone in the
Speaker 3: room and more than that, like unless you know everyone's
Speaker 3: level of experience in the room and you've been in
Speaker 3: meetings with them before, Like you can't assume the level
Speaker 3: of knowledge that everyone has. And I have watched these
Speaker 3: processes not work because people just did that and then
Speaker 3: a bunch of people in the room were like, what
Speaker 3: the fuck is going on? So you need to at
Speaker 3: the start of the meeting explain how the meeting is
Speaker 3: going to work like at least a little bit. It
Speaker 3: doesn't have to be super formal. This can be like
Speaker 3: fucking two minutes of like we're gonna have a stack
Speaker 3: blah blah blah blah blah.
Speaker 4: And for anyone just say, you know what we're saying
Speaker 4: right now, we'll explain stack more. That is the order
Speaker 4: in which people talk. It is a way of like
Speaker 4: keeping track of the line of who's gonna talk when.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm realizing this explanation is jumping around a little bit.
Speaker 3: But you need to make sure that everyone understands how
Speaker 3: the meeting is supposed to work. And you know, usually
Speaker 3: that's really quick. Sometimes someone will just not know something
Speaker 3: and then okay, you explain it to them and that's
Speaker 3: like fine and chill, and like I don't know. I
Speaker 3: remember being a little tiny baby anarchist and like not
Speaker 3: knowing anything and going to my first meeting and like
Speaker 3: people were talking about restorative justice and I was like, Hi,
Speaker 3: what's your storative justice. I'm like a little tiny child,
Speaker 3: I don't know anything. And they explained it and it
Speaker 3: was like chill and good and you can just do
Speaker 3: this and it helps people feel included and yeah, totally okay.
Speaker 3: So general meeting facilitation things you need. You need one
Speaker 3: an agenda. An agenda is what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 3: And generally speaking, secondarily, you want to try to have
Speaker 3: time planned out because one of the failure modes of
Speaker 3: a meeting is the meeting goes for fucking thirty hours
Speaker 3: and everyone's miserable. So you generally want to have an
Speaker 3: agenda that has what you're going to talk about and
Speaker 3: then kind of guidelines roughly for how long you think
Speaker 3: it'll take to talk about the thing.
Speaker 5: Mm hmm.
Speaker 3: We'll get more into that in a second. Sometimes people
Speaker 3: create the agenda of beforehand. Sometimes you start you set
Speaker 3: the agenda at the beginning of the meeting. But like
Speaker 3: you do want an agenda so people know what you're doing.
Speaker 4: And it should be similar that everyone can see a
Speaker 4: whiteboard or like I guess in a zoom meeting notes
Speaker 4: or a dock that everyone has open.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you want to make sure everyone has it. Okay,
Speaker 3: and this this is the point where we need to
Speaker 3: talk about roles. So part of the technology for this
Speaker 3: right and the stack is a big piece of technology
Speaker 3: to keep track of who's talking. But a big part
Speaker 3: of what the technology of this is is a bunch
Speaker 3: of roles that you assign people and that ideally everyone
Speaker 3: rotates through so you learn how to do all of them,
Speaker 3: and so to prevent people from sort of concentrating power
Speaker 3: by like monopolizing one role. So the first role we
Speaker 3: need to talk about, and this is I don't know
Speaker 3: if the big one is the right one, but this
Speaker 3: is the one that I think people know kind of
Speaker 3: I don't know if intuitively understand is the right word,
Speaker 3: but like this is the one that there are usually
Speaker 3: versions of in a meeting, and a lot of those
Speaker 3: versions are bad. Is a facilitator? Yeah, so okay my
Speaker 3: explanation of what a facilitator is, and Margot, I'm going
Speaker 3: to ask you for yours too, because I don't know. So,
Speaker 3: as a facilitator, your job is to like point to
Speaker 3: the agenda and go, okay, we're talking about this. Your
Speaker 3: job is to move people through discussions. Your job is
Speaker 3: to try to get people to a consensus on what
Speaker 3: you're doing, and your job is to stop people from
Speaker 3: giving speeches. And this is I'm gonna take a little
Speaker 3: digrestuona here, which is, Okay, we've been talking about Way's
Speaker 3: meetings fail right. Number One, no one can go to it.
Speaker 3: That's way meeting fails. Two, you don't have an agenda
Speaker 3: and everyone it just goes off the rails and no
Speaker 3: one has any idea what you're supposed to be meeting about. Three,
Speaker 3: and this is a huge one, is that one of
Speaker 3: the biggest ways of meetings fail. And I have seen
Speaker 3: this in every single context I've ever worked in, is
Speaker 3: that someone and it is usually a dude. It's almost
Speaker 3: always a dude. It cannot be a dude, but it's
Speaker 3: usually a dude just keeps talking and keeps talking and
Speaker 3: keeps talking and will not shut the fuck up, and
Speaker 3: nothing gets done because the entire meeting is one hour
Speaker 3: of this guy just yabbering. Yep. And one of your
Speaker 3: most important jobs as the facilitator, and this is genuinely
Speaker 3: a huge part for social technology of the structure of
Speaker 3: meetings is to make sure that your meeting is not
Speaker 3: one person talking. Yeah. This is why this exists. Yeah.
Speaker 3: And you know, if you want to get into the
Speaker 3: sort of dire part of this, right, if you do
Speaker 3: not stop all of your meetings from being one annoying
Speaker 3: guy talking, your projects will fail. You must do this.
Speaker 3: This is the one thing here that is like, you absolutely,
Speaker 3: positively must get this guy to stop talking.
Speaker 4: I think that the important thing to think about a
Speaker 4: facilitator is that most people come from a background of
Speaker 4: assumed authoritarian politics. Yeah, assumed politics where someone is in charge.
Speaker 4: Even our democracies are built around this idea that you
Speaker 4: elect someone to tell you what to do. When we
Speaker 4: talk about meetings, we are talking about building bottom up structures,
Speaker 4: and we later I think, will end up talking maybe
Speaker 4: a different episode or something about larger structures you can
Speaker 4: build up out of these sort of local assemblies or meetings.
Speaker 4: The idea is that everyone is empowered. And so because
Speaker 4: we're really used to this competitive decision making around who
Speaker 4: is in charge, we struggle a little bit adapting to
Speaker 4: egalitarian meetings and also to consensus. Isn't the only way
Speaker 4: to make decisions, but people struggle with consensus because they'll
Speaker 4: think of that at meaning one hundred percent vote where
Speaker 4: everyone votes for the same thing, and that's a mistake.
Speaker 4: And so we think of the facilitator accidentally as the leader,
Speaker 4: and they are a leader in the sense.
Speaker 3: Of a whatever.
Speaker 4: You could use the word leader in a lot of ways,
Speaker 4: and some of them are positive and not authoritarian, and
Speaker 4: so in that context they are leading people through the meeting,
Speaker 4: but they are absolutely not only not the decision maker,
Speaker 4: they are less the decision maker than everyone else. Choosing
Speaker 4: to be a facilitator of a meeting is choosing to
Speaker 4: go in and say, I'm not actually even going to
Speaker 4: push for my side unless you are in a like
Speaker 4: tight knit enough group where everyone knows each other and
Speaker 4: everyone kind of knows. Oh, in this group, Margaret's opinion
Speaker 4: is always going to be this, and so and so's
Speaker 4: opinions always gonna be this. If you know people really well,
Speaker 4: you can kind of still be both facilitator and a participant.
Speaker 4: But by and large, when you are the facilitator, your
Speaker 4: job is to help the decision form. It is to
Speaker 4: help take what people are saying and say, Okay, this
Speaker 4: seems like what we're saying. Is this the Is this
Speaker 4: the proposal? And not say I think this is the proposal,
Speaker 4: but say is this the proposal?
Speaker 3: And yeah?
Speaker 4: It is to keep people on track, and every meeting
Speaker 4: is going to have different I really like a strong facilitator.
Speaker 4: I really like someone who's going to shut me up.
Speaker 4: I really like someone who's like, yeah, that's not what
Speaker 4: we're talking about right now. And it's hard because your
Speaker 4: feelings get hurt, like especially, for example, someone says a
Speaker 4: joke and then someone else is a joke, and then
Speaker 4: you're the third person and you say the joke too,
Speaker 4: and the facilitator like, yeah, that's enough of that. We
Speaker 4: got to keep going. You're the third person who said
Speaker 4: the joke, and you're like, why am I getting yelled
Speaker 4: at and the other two people didn't. Yeah, And that's
Speaker 4: the wrong way to look at it. We're not yelling
Speaker 4: at anyone. We're trying to keep things moving forward. And
Speaker 4: you're absolutely right also about the people grandstanding. And you know,
Speaker 4: a particular habit that men often have, especially since men,
Speaker 4: is that they'll come in and be like they'll listen
Speaker 4: to what someone else says and then repeat it louder
Speaker 4: and then be like yeah, yeah, right, and as if
Speaker 4: it's their idea and they don't even realize they're doing it.
Speaker 4: It's kind of cute, but there's a lot of that
Speaker 4: you can learn about yourself by going into these meetings
Speaker 4: and learning about your own habits and what you've been
Speaker 4: and culturated to do. And it shouldn't be about shaming
Speaker 4: people around this as long as people are able to
Speaker 4: like kind of get called in and listen to it.
Speaker 4: And one of the things that I think when you
Speaker 4: teach the meeting, at the beginning of the meeting, you
Speaker 4: also explain some of this social stuff and you say, like,
Speaker 4: you know, we believe in a step up step back thing.
Speaker 4: If you're someone who generally feels comfortable talking in large groups,
Speaker 4: you to step back a little bit. And if you're
Speaker 4: not someone who generally feels comfortable expressing your opinion in groups,
Speaker 4: we invite you to step up. Do you know what
Speaker 4: also needs to learn to step up? Is I actually
Speaker 4: think we don't get enough advertising in our lives. I
Speaker 4: think that the people who are afraid to take up
Speaker 4: space are the people who pay a lot of money
Speaker 4: block All right, babe, isn't consensus, here's ads.
Speaker 3: We are back. I think this is also you know,
Speaker 3: as we've talked about sort of in some way in
Speaker 3: a lot of ways, like how important the role the
Speaker 3: facilitator is. This is a role you need to rotate
Speaker 3: because that is a role. It's like those are skills
Speaker 3: that everyone needs. Like if everyone knows did you just
Speaker 3: do the I did?
Speaker 4: I did I don't know whether people still do it
Speaker 4: metal hands versus twinkle fingers.
Speaker 3: Sorry, okay, this is completely unfortunately podcasting is an audio medium.
Speaker 3: So all of you just missed me losing my mind
Speaker 3: because Margaret, Margaret did one of my hand signs for agreement.
Speaker 3: It's like, shit, God damn it.
Speaker 4: Okay, we're talking about meetings that just came naturally.
Speaker 3: Well, we'll get the hand signes later, but like you know,
Speaker 3: you actually do you all of these things should be
Speaker 3: road hitting, and you should be teaching everyone to be
Speaker 3: able to do all of the facilitation roles because a okay,
Speaker 3: there's there's lots of reasons for this, right one. Facilitation
Speaker 3: in particular can be kind of dangerous because there's a
Speaker 3: real risk of someone who is facilitating deciding that they
Speaker 3: are the leader and they're going to steer how everything
Speaker 3: goes and there and they're going to make their decisions.
Speaker 3: And by rotating that around, it becomes a lot easier
Speaker 3: to not have that happen. Yeah, and also doing a
Speaker 3: role makes you a more active participant in the meeting.
Speaker 3: A lot of times it depends on the role obviously,
Speaker 3: but like it's a way to get people to keep
Speaker 3: everyone in gain the thing. That's a good point. Thank you.
Speaker 3: This is I stole this from my friend, who is
Speaker 3: going to remain nameless. But if you're out there, I
Speaker 3: love you. Your friend's name is nameless, I understand. Yeah,
Speaker 3: friend's name is the nameless child.
Speaker 4: To somewhere there's someone whose name is the whole lost
Speaker 4: kid and anyway whatever, anyway, okay.
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah. But the other thing about it, right is
Speaker 3: the more everyone knows about these skills, the more effective
Speaker 3: of a participant, and the more effective you can be
Speaker 3: making decisions in the meeting like that, the more everyone
Speaker 3: understands how the process works and knows how to do
Speaker 3: it and knows how to because like being in a
Speaker 3: meeting and being in community with other people and making
Speaker 3: decisions together is a skill and we don't have it.
Speaker 3: There's this great David Graeber, the anthropologist David Graeber, who
Speaker 3: actually spent a lot of time like writing about these
Speaker 3: meetings in a way that doesn't usually happen, as like
Speaker 3: as as an anthropologist. Yeah yeah, as an anthropologist, right,
Speaker 3: because he was both both an activist and an anthropologist.
Speaker 3: And he has this great line where he says, American
Speaker 3: they are great at communism and terrible at democracy, which
Speaker 3: is that they're really really good at like doing things
Speaker 3: each according to their need and from each according through ability.
Speaker 3: Like if you try to organize a barbecue, everyone can
Speaker 3: do the things to do the barbecue, but no one
Speaker 3: knows how to make decisions together, because that's a skill.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: And the more you're rotating through all the roles and
Speaker 3: the more you understand how everything works, the more you understand,
Speaker 3: you know, how to do the facilitation stuff of like
Speaker 3: getting everyone to figure out what the thing that they
Speaker 3: want is and how to express that and how to
Speaker 3: like how to work together. The more you understand that
Speaker 3: as like a person who's not facilitating, the more you
Speaker 3: can understand like how to actually do democracy. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: it rules.
Speaker 4: And it's also the fact that like if you are
Speaker 4: indispensable to your group, you've actually failed your group. Yeah,
Speaker 4: especially when you're talking about stuff like activism, that has
Speaker 4: a certain risk. If you are the only medic in
Speaker 4: your affinity group, that is a problem because if you
Speaker 4: get arrested, now there's no medic. If you're the only
Speaker 4: facilitator who is a very skilled facilitator. Happens when you're
Speaker 4: sick or in jail, and you all have a very
Speaker 4: intense meeting that you have to do, and you need
Speaker 4: a skilled facilitator. Not that everyone needs to be equal
Speaker 4: in all skills within in a given group, but you
Speaker 4: you need to learn to If you are very good
Speaker 4: at something, your job is to make someone else very
Speaker 4: good at it too.
Speaker 3: That's the thing both for meetings in the way it
Speaker 3: was explained to me, and this is a more kind
Speaker 3: of I don't know what term beat us for, but
Speaker 3: it was taught to me as your job is to
Speaker 3: organize yourself out of a job. Yeah, totally. Okay, So
Speaker 3: we're going to move on to the second roll, which
Speaker 3: is the stack taker. So okay, the stack this when
Speaker 3: I first started talking about this as a social technology,
Speaker 3: the thing I specifically met was the stack, and then
Speaker 3: eventually I was like, no, it's actually the whole process is.
Speaker 3: But the stack very very simple invention, but if you
Speaker 3: don't have it, it's a disaster. The stack, as we
Speaker 3: said before, is just literally a list of names of
Speaker 3: who's going to talk in what order. Someone raises their hand,
Speaker 3: they could add to the stack.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 3: That is very simple. It is also absolutely crucial to
Speaker 3: making sure a meeting runs at all. Most groups tend
Speaker 3: to use some variation of what's called a progressive stack,
Speaker 3: where you know, this is part of we were talking
Speaker 3: about earlier, like step forward and step back, But when
Speaker 3: you're compiling a stack, you want to have the people
Speaker 3: who speak less in front. And this works sort of
Speaker 3: in two ways, right. One is it's okay, so if
Speaker 3: there's someone who's not like a cis white dude and
Speaker 3: who was trying to say something, you probably want them
Speaker 3: to say something because they are less likely to be
Speaker 3: the one who says something, yeah, just because of the
Speaker 3: way that sort of whiteness is structure, because of the
Speaker 3: way that like masculinity structure, because of the way that
Speaker 3: these things work. So you want to give opportunities to
Speaker 3: speak to people who like don't usually get heard. And
Speaker 3: then also if someone just like hasn't been talking in
Speaker 3: a meeting and they want to say something, and that's
Speaker 3: also a part of the sort of facilitation. And sometimes
Speaker 3: I know this is the thing that like a role
Speaker 3: I've seen passed out between a bunch of different roles,
Speaker 3: and I guess everyone kind of has a responsibility to
Speaker 3: do this. But if there's someone in a meeting who
Speaker 3: has not been saying anything. It's generally a good idea
Speaker 3: to be like, hey are you okay? And also like
Speaker 3: more important lead to some extent than there are you okay?
Speaker 3: Of like what do you think about this?
Speaker 4: Yeah, although I do think that there's a little bit
Speaker 4: of a like some people don't want to specifically be
Speaker 4: called on in that way. Yeah, and so that's kind
Speaker 4: of a like learning to read the room skill definitely
Speaker 4: about when you want to encourage people to step up
Speaker 4: versus other people are like no, I don't have anything
Speaker 4: particular to say, and I don't want to get you know,
Speaker 4: singled out. I think that in smaller meetings sometimes the
Speaker 4: facilitator can keep stack. Larger meetings, that's a terrible plan.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's large meetings you need to you can't.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've been both to be doing it, Yeah, because
Speaker 4: you need someone keeping track of who's raising their hands
Speaker 4: when and things like that. Sometimes you're actually even writing
Speaker 4: the stack on a whiteboard so people can see.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you've like a piece of paper. Yeah.
Speaker 4: I have been in meetings that sort of self facilitate
Speaker 4: fairly effectively in smaller groups, where a thing that people
Speaker 4: can do is if they have a thing they want
Speaker 4: to say, they hold up one finger and they keep
Speaker 4: that finger up, and if someone else is something that
Speaker 4: they want to say, they put up two fingers, and
Speaker 4: then if someone else is something they want to say,
Speaker 4: they put up three fingers. And so you can have
Speaker 4: this method by which people track their own stack. But
Speaker 4: this is a small group thing. This is not a
Speaker 4: and this is a people who know each other and
Speaker 4: know how to do the balancing that we're talking about
Speaker 4: about making sure everyone gets heard.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think part of this also it's important
Speaker 3: to remember, is like this is like one oh one,
Speaker 3: oh yeah sorry, as an advanced skill kind of And
Speaker 3: I'm introducing some things that are probably more advanced than
Speaker 3: one on one, like like like they're like, okay, figuring
Speaker 3: out why someone is uncomfortable talking on a like this
Speaker 3: person wants to talk, doesn't feel comfortable to and if
Speaker 3: you ask them, they will say something. And this person
Speaker 3: doesn't feel comfortable talking because they don't want to talk.
Speaker 3: That's kind of a more advanced thing. Fair enough, I
Speaker 3: guess we should talk about hand gestures here, which is
Speaker 3: that Okay, over the course of these beings, one of
Speaker 3: over the course of like movements one of the things
Speaker 3: that is built up is hand gestured because they can
Speaker 3: be a very effective way of, you know, someone expressing
Speaker 3: something without having to talk over someone else. This is
Speaker 3: I don't know, this is the one on one I'm
Speaker 3: not going to teach hand gestures because everyone has different ones,
Speaker 3: and there are some that are pretty universal. But like
Speaker 3: the number of different gestures I've seen for like direct
Speaker 3: response and ship like it is the thing that like,
Speaker 3: like hand gestures can work and can be really Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're doing one of the head you're doing one of
Speaker 3: the make a triangle in your hands. Fuck, I forgot
Speaker 3: about point a process. Oh no, well there's all of
Speaker 3: this very very complicated stuff. It's not that complicated, but
Speaker 3: like like point up process sucks like that, she's actually complicated.
Speaker 4: I'm actually derailing again. I'm so sorry. This is an example.
Speaker 4: If there was a facilitator in this call, they would
Speaker 4: be making me shut up.
Speaker 6: That is what's happening.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, but but but this is actually like this
Speaker 3: this this is this is the one time I've ever
Speaker 3: wished there was like videos you could see the hand
Speaker 3: gestures because like the thing about this, right is, once
Speaker 3: you are good at meetings and like if you have
Speaker 3: people who do this and you talk about what the
Speaker 3: handjesters are beforehand, that's also important. You can't even if
Speaker 3: if you're very good at meetings and you're still listening
Speaker 3: to this episode for some reason. I mean, I don't
Speaker 3: know it's a good episode, but like, you can't assume
Speaker 3: that everyone knows what your hand gestures are. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: sometimes people have different hand gestures for different things. Sometimes
Speaker 3: you have contextual hand gestures for like like there are
Speaker 3: like okay, like you're if you are trying to meet
Speaker 3: in the dark. Yeah, your your hand gestures don't work right.
Speaker 3: This is also stolen from another friend, right, Like sometimes
Speaker 3: you need to use snaps for that, because so that
Speaker 3: you can hear, right, Like what all of us is
Speaker 3: to say that like the stuff with hand gestures, it
Speaker 3: can make your meetings a lot more effective. This is
Speaker 3: the thing you can do if everyone in the group
Speaker 3: understands how they work. I'm not gonna be like teaching
Speaker 3: you sets of hand gestures here because I can't guarantee
Speaker 3: that any gesture I teach you will be the one
Speaker 3: that people use. Can I can?
Speaker 4: I though, like speed run the concepts of some of them,
Speaker 4: because I think they are useful to understand. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 4: because it's hard to imagine when you amagine meetings. I
Speaker 4: think about this a lot because I write meetings into fiction,
Speaker 4: which is a very hard thing to do and make
Speaker 4: them entertaining, because they're also hard to be entertained and
Speaker 4: by when you're in them, unless they're contentious. But there
Speaker 4: are certain things that you learn derail meetings, and there
Speaker 4: are ways in which by using hand gestures you can
Speaker 4: avoid having more people speak, And the single most important
Speaker 4: and common one is a way of saying I agree,
Speaker 4: and so that way people when they really want to
Speaker 4: say something but they're not on stack and they get
Speaker 4: really frustrated, they can do that hand gesture, which you
Speaker 4: know is very easy to make fun of. You know,
Speaker 4: when I was coming up, it was twinkle fingers, where
Speaker 4: you waggle your fingers, and then we were like punk,
Speaker 4: so we did metal fingers instead, which was literally the
Speaker 4: same thing but reverse kind of like the look that
Speaker 4: you do when you really like music, and it's actually
Speaker 4: sort of like mimicking playing a guitar. And so that's
Speaker 4: a very important concept. And sometimes people use snaps, although
Speaker 4: sometimes people prefer not audio and other people prefer audio.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and that's likely and that's a that's possure.
Speaker 3: While I was talking about like like that's that's dependent
Speaker 3: on who's in the room and what the room is
Speaker 3: and like.
Speaker 4: But I think that a a I agree without needing
Speaker 4: to say anything is essential.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, that's a good one.
Speaker 4: Other ones to just know of is that there are
Speaker 4: things like people will say like please move this along.
Speaker 3: It's a way of saying, hey.
Speaker 4: Facilitator, please shut this person up usually, or can we
Speaker 4: talk about something else. There's ones that are direct response,
Speaker 4: which is saying I would like to jump stack because
Speaker 4: this person has just insulted the honor of my family
Speaker 4: or whatever, and it's like it's up to the facilitator
Speaker 4: to decide whether to do these. Another one is point
Speaker 4: of process, which is saying like, hey, I actually don't
Speaker 4: want to talk about the thing we're talking about. I
Speaker 4: want to talk about how the meeting is going. Meetings
Speaker 4: get real meta and it's real frustrating anyway, So it's
Speaker 4: worth knowing that that this is part of the technology.
Speaker 4: It seems cringey from the outside, but like, are other options.
Speaker 4: I mean, there are other technologies about decision making that
Speaker 4: people have developed. But like, actually, I mean democratic lives
Speaker 4: in which we all have a say in our decisions
Speaker 4: sometimes means that we go to meetings and uh, and
Speaker 4: we can actually kind of learn to I'm talking shit
Speaker 4: on meetings, but that's meetings are also a ways to
Speaker 4: get to know your friends and express yourself and get
Speaker 4: things done.
Speaker 3: Yeah. You know, as much as I've been talking about
Speaker 3: being boring, like, I've had things that were technically organizing
Speaker 3: meetings that were like some of the most transformational experiences
Speaker 3: in my life totally because me and a bunch of
Speaker 3: people who you know, a bunch of people really close
Speaker 3: to me, like came together and we figured out how
Speaker 3: to do something, and there is a beauty there that
Speaker 3: is and this is personal to why it's hard to
Speaker 3: talk about these things, right because like the technical process
Speaker 3: of it, like the technical description of what we're saying,
Speaker 3: is at the same time being used to do something
Speaker 3: that can only be described in stead of poetic terms. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 3: the the actual experience of like you and a bunch
Speaker 3: of other people coming together to do something and figure
Speaker 3: out how to do it and fucking doing it is
Speaker 3: it is a transit active creation. Yeah, And these are
Speaker 3: like you know, yeah, like it doesn't like the fucking
Speaker 3: hammers and shovels and like fucking slide rules that you
Speaker 3: use to construct something don't look very pretty. And then
Speaker 3: at the end of it, you've built something together and
Speaker 3: it's beautiful.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 4: No, it's it's the other side of the coin of
Speaker 4: the first time you watch the police run away from you.
Speaker 4: It is a way of coming together with other people
Speaker 4: to accomplish something and make something powerful. Is meetings, and
Speaker 4: it is also it's interesting because we talk about how
Speaker 4: men will often take up too much space in meetings.
Speaker 4: This is not a universal thing anytime we say this
Speaker 4: kind of thing, but it is actually often feminized labor
Speaker 4: because it's this invisibilized labor that happens behind the scenes
Speaker 4: that is not as sexy, right, and is about just
Speaker 4: actually hearing people out. It is like conflict resolution speed run. Anyway,
Speaker 4: I accidentally went off on the meta of meetings also.
Speaker 3: But no, it's good. Well, and I think there's a
Speaker 3: new important thing here too, because like we're talking about
Speaker 3: the politics of like meetings themselves, right of like the
Speaker 3: the you know, the actual political angle of what it
Speaker 3: means to have a democracy, where what democracy means you
Speaker 3: make decisions together. Yeah, and this is something there's there's
Speaker 3: also a very important actual procedural meeting note here, which
Speaker 3: is that one of the things you will learn over
Speaker 3: the course of doing meetings is that a lot of
Speaker 3: times people wage battles over the content of political ideology
Speaker 3: in the form of fighting over how a meeting works. Yeah, totally.
Speaker 3: And you can see this everywhere from like your fucking
Speaker 3: local organizing meeting and people yelling about who's on stack
Speaker 3: or whatever, all the way up to like, you know,
Speaker 3: when like when like the Democrats are saying that, like
Speaker 3: like in Congress that like the parliament the budget parliamentarian
Speaker 3: won't let them like raise the minimum wage. That's what
Speaker 3: they're doing. They're using an argument over procedure to like
Speaker 3: disguise the fact that what they're really arguing about is,
Speaker 3: like it is an actual political argument.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but this is also a thing where like the
Speaker 3: way you structure a meeting is political. It doesn't seem
Speaker 3: like it, right, but you can have a meeting where,
Speaker 3: you know, it's like the fucking plentipotentiary meeting of like
Speaker 3: the executive committee of I don't know, the People's Congress,
Speaker 3: the Chinese companies, party or whatever. Those are not the
Speaker 3: right words. I'm on five hours of sleep. But you
Speaker 3: can have a meeting where it's just like, yeah, the
Speaker 3: way the meeting works is one guy stands out there
Speaker 3: and he gives a speech and he tells everyone what
Speaker 3: to say and then everyone votes.
Speaker 5: Yes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's the way you can do a meeting, right,
Speaker 3: And that's political and it fucking sucks. And we're trying
Speaker 3: to teach you how to do a meeting where, you know,
Speaker 3: we do democracy, where everyone comes together and we like
Speaker 3: do a thing. Yeah, and we will get to more
Speaker 3: roles next week. This was originally planned to be one episode.
Speaker 3: It is not one episode. It is now two episodes.
Speaker 3: But the upside is that we solved a bunch of
Speaker 3: the fundamental logistical problems about how to build a free society.
Speaker 3: So stay tuned for that, stay tuned for more roles
Speaker 3: you want in your meetings. And yes, they could happen here.
Speaker 3: And thank you Mark for coming on the show. Welcome
Speaker 3: to it could happen here a podcast about organizing. I
Speaker 3: am your host, Mia Long And in a moment we
Speaker 3: will be continuing our episode about how to run a meeting,
Speaker 3: which is one of the fundamental tools of building democracy
Speaker 3: and free societies. Here we go, okay, so other roles.
Speaker 3: So we talked about that. That was a long digression
Speaker 3: about the concept of a stack taker, which is at
Speaker 3: a very simple level. You write the names down, you
Speaker 3: call the names in order. Yep. Yeah, we're gonna move
Speaker 3: on to some of the other ones. Those are like
Speaker 3: the two I don't know if most important is the
Speaker 3: right word. Funnily enough, stack takers not the one I
Speaker 3: thought that digression was going to happen on that was.
Speaker 3: I thought that was gonna be the last one we're
Speaker 3: gonna get to. But oh no taker, Oh no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 3: no, no no, this is vibes checker.
Speaker 4: Oh shit, the vibes checker is okay, okay, okay, please continue.
Speaker 3: Okay, let's do timekeeper. Timekeeper extremely important person. You want
Speaker 3: someone with like a watch or something, and the timekeeper's
Speaker 3: job is to give people reminders of like how much
Speaker 3: time things are taking. So you know a thing you
Speaker 3: can do is like, okay, so we know we have
Speaker 3: this much time allocated for something, right, so we have
Speaker 3: twenty minutes to talk about this, okay, So like ten
Speaker 3: minutes and you go, we have ten minutes left, we
Speaker 3: have five minutes left, we have like fifteen minutes left. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this is really important. And at the end of it,
Speaker 3: the timekeeper's job is to go like, hey, this is
Speaker 3: our allotted time. Do we want to keep talking about
Speaker 3: this and use more time or do we want to
Speaker 3: move on? Yeah, And that's a really important role. It's
Speaker 3: also kind of why you want to generally have like
Speaker 3: an idea of how long you want to talk about
Speaker 3: something in the agenda. It's also worth noting that like
Speaker 3: this is all guidelines, right, Like these are role.
Speaker 4: MIA's guidelines of order. Is that what you're calling this?
Speaker 3: Oh god, no, we'll take it. We'll take you.
Speaker 5: What more?
Speaker 3: Digression digression, which is that the anarchy symbol, the A
Speaker 3: with the circle around it is from a per dawned
Speaker 3: phrase that's the circle is actually an o because the
Speaker 3: original thing was anarchy. The original saying is anarchy is
Speaker 3: the mother of order. Yeah, and that's that's where that
Speaker 3: comes from. So I was gonna make it like me
Speaker 3: a's MEA's like procedure disorder whatever joke, but it's like no, no, no,
Speaker 3: this is actually like anarchy is order. Baby.
Speaker 4: I believe in an organized society. I just believe in
Speaker 4: an organically organized society. That is from the to use
Speaker 4: the Zapatista phrase from the bottom and the left.
Speaker 3: Yep, okay, So that that's timekeeper the note taker. Sometimes
Speaker 3: you need to decide whether you want notes of your meeting. Yeah,
Speaker 3: it depends on how crime you are. Yeah. I hear
Speaker 3: this all the time from people making jokes about the
Speaker 3: scene for the Wire that I've never seen the wire,
Speaker 3: but everone's making jokes as the scene for the Wire
Speaker 3: where guy goes, are you taking notes of the criminal continency?
Speaker 3: So okay, are are you going to have a note taker?
Speaker 3: And then secondly, like, okay, the note taker takes notes
Speaker 3: on what's being talked about. I actually this is also
Speaker 3: mea going into a little bit more advance stuff. I
Speaker 3: actually like the practice of kind of rotating this throughout
Speaker 3: the meeting because the problem with being the note taker.
Speaker 3: So if you're the timekeeper, right, you can be involved
Speaker 3: in the conversation. Stack taker is also hard to but
Speaker 3: the thing about the note taker, and you know, if
Speaker 3: you get good enough at this, you can rotate all
Speaker 3: of these roles during the meeting so that everyone has
Speaker 3: a chance to participate, so you don't just have a
Speaker 3: group of people who perpetually can't be in a meeting.
Speaker 3: And so note taker is a thing that you can
Speaker 3: pretty easily just like pass to someone else and be like, hey,
Speaker 3: you're not the note taker. So the person who's being
Speaker 3: the note taker can like say.
Speaker 4: Things yeah, although okay, So there's two weird funny things
Speaker 4: about this one. Sometimes people who tend not to want
Speaker 4: to talk much in a meeting but also maybe have
Speaker 4: an attention span where they would prefer to be doing
Speaker 4: something at all times prefer to be notea yeah. But famously,
Speaker 4: the International Workingman's Association or whatever, the the First International
Speaker 4: was an organization of a lot of different stripes of leftists.
Speaker 4: And someone went to someone's friend's apartment. This anarchists went
Speaker 4: to this anarchist friends apartment and was like, Hey, I
Speaker 4: want to invite my friend to this meeting. And this
Speaker 4: guy answers the door and his name's Carl Marx, and
Speaker 4: he's like, oh, well, did so and so's not here,
Speaker 4: and he's like, all right, well you can come too.
Speaker 4: So an anarchist invites Marx to the International. I don't
Speaker 4: have my notes in front of me, don't at me.
Speaker 4: But then Marx goes and he becomes the note taker,
Speaker 4: and by means of that takes a minority position which
Speaker 4: within the group and makes it the majority position by
Speaker 4: controlling the way that a lot of the media and
Speaker 4: expression and stuff around this was because Marx was a
Speaker 4: good writer and for better or worse, I have my
Speaker 4: opinion about whether it's for better or worse, And so
Speaker 4: there's a power within note taker that it actually is
Speaker 4: a reason to rotate this task.
Speaker 3: Yeah. On the other hand, if you're like not worried.
Speaker 4: About that, you can just have a person who's like,
Speaker 4: I just really want to be the one who takes notes.
Speaker 4: It really depends on everything's going to be contextual. I
Speaker 4: just wanted to tell that story about Marx.
Speaker 3: No, like this is this is the story of how
Speaker 3: Marx became Marx by taking a note taking job and
Speaker 3: then becoming the person who could wh would write the
Speaker 3: declarations for the organization. Yeah, we should note like this
Speaker 3: is also kind of how Stalent took power was by
Speaker 3: being the person in the back of the room he
Speaker 3: didn't say anything and keeping track of what everyone was
Speaker 3: doing and saying, and you being able to manipulate like
Speaker 3: the inner workings of these sort of parliamentary procedures that
Speaker 3: the Bolsheviks reusing.
Speaker 4: That's what the Robert not of the rules of order,
Speaker 4: but of the behind the bassards was saying about, Oh,
Speaker 4: the Cambodia man, the horrible de man and killed everyone.
Speaker 4: Oh Paul Pott was that he he was the quiet
Speaker 4: guy at the back.
Speaker 3: Yep, same kind of guy can be extremely dangerous. The
Speaker 3: guy who says everything all the time can be dangerous.
Speaker 3: Quiet person also can be very dangerous and just never
Speaker 3: trust anyone. That's the answer. Wait now, oh, hold on,
Speaker 3: hopefully we're not producing pullpot in these meetings. Okay. So
Speaker 3: the last like official role that I want to talk about,
Speaker 3: and there's a lot, there's like a million other roles
Speaker 3: that people use. I want to talk about the vibes checker.
Speaker 3: So this is the one that's kind of not obvious
Speaker 3: from like the name, but the vibe checker is someone
Speaker 3: who actually has a really really important role. And your
Speaker 3: role is to figure out like, is everyone in the
Speaker 3: group okay, does this meeting feel okay?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And is just something we need to do about it?
Speaker 3: And some of this is like okay, everyone is clearly
Speaker 3: really tired, let's go get lunch. And that's like a
Speaker 3: pretty easy sort of vibe checker thing. But then also
Speaker 3: like I don't know, this is partially a facilitation job.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know, if someone says something racist in
Speaker 3: a meeting and a bunch of people are uncomfortable, it's
Speaker 3: like now you're suddenly glad you have the person whose
Speaker 3: job it is to be like, hey, what the fuck like,
Speaker 3: And that's also that's like obviously like that's a blatant
Speaker 3: enough thing that everyone can be like hold on, hold on,
Speaker 3: like don't like say a slur or whatever. But like,
Speaker 3: you know, the vibe checker's job is if there's a
Speaker 3: lot of people who are uncomfortable with something or if
Speaker 3: something like they're kind of there, if something is going wrong,
Speaker 3: or if people are checked out, or if like stuff's happening.
Speaker 3: Sometimes this is behind the scene things. Sometimes this is
Speaker 3: like explicit, like you make it, you bring it to
Speaker 3: the group to be like, hey, this is okay, we
Speaker 3: need to address this. Yeah kind of thing. I don't know.
Speaker 3: It's a hard role to sort of like explain. It's fuzzy, yeah, I.
Speaker 4: Mean, but it's it's in the name how are the
Speaker 4: vibes And vibe is a fuzzy word, and you know
Speaker 4: it's the word that people are going to interpret in
Speaker 4: different ways.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and like I as a very sort of materialist,
Speaker 3: godless atheist, I it's like, okay, this is how people
Speaker 3: are feeling.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: People also take this in sort of more new agy directions.
Speaker 3: People take it in like but like you know, like
Speaker 3: the important thing about this is right you can feel
Speaker 3: in a meeting when it's really tense or when things
Speaker 3: like just weird, everything feels off. Everyone is like kissed
Speaker 3: off or tired or like just grossed out or like
Speaker 3: you know, and that's this person's job. This is why
Speaker 3: I'm putting it in here because it's it's one of
Speaker 3: these roles that like I deally, I guess this person
Speaker 3: doesn't do anything for a whole meeting, but they're just
Speaker 3: they're sort of watching it. I mean, like it it
Speaker 3: can't be good at the interviewing, but like it's especially
Speaker 3: important if something is going wrong in ways the group
Speaker 3: isn't addressing totally.
Speaker 4: It is good to have someone who's ready to step
Speaker 4: up and say, yeah, this is this is what's going on.
Speaker 3: Can I make a pitch for another role. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I don't have a name for this role.
Speaker 4: The very first activist meeting I went to when the
Speaker 4: world was young, during the ultra globalization movement. I went
Speaker 4: into a meeting for New York City indie media and
Speaker 4: I had no idea what was happening. But it was
Speaker 4: a public, open meeting and I was a young activist
Speaker 4: anarchist or whatever. And I went to this thing and
Speaker 4: someone sat next to me, knew that I was new,
Speaker 4: and sat next to me and explain what the fuck
Speaker 4: was happening.
Speaker 3: That's a good role.
Speaker 4: And I don't know if I would have become an
Speaker 4: activist if that person hadn't done that, because I went
Speaker 4: in and it was the middle of a contentious meeting
Speaker 4: about people talking about some stuff that was pretty important,
Speaker 4: and I had no idea what was happening, and someone
Speaker 4: explained it to me. I think it is very important
Speaker 4: to have someone know who is new and help them
Speaker 4: feel comfortable. You could call it like an usher if
Speaker 4: I was going to have a word, But that's like,
Speaker 4: because I'm really into this idea that our movements don't
Speaker 4: need gatekeepers, we need ushers. We need people to help
Speaker 4: people figure out find their seats and figure out how
Speaker 4: to plug in onboarding. But then the other thing I
Speaker 4: want to say is that with roles, the larger and
Speaker 4: more formal a meeting, the more likely you need these
Speaker 4: to be formalized roles. But I also think that these
Speaker 4: as generalized skills can be dispersed through Like I think
Speaker 4: that a lot of groups, especially if they're kind of
Speaker 4: comfortable with each other, you maybe have a rotating facility.
Speaker 4: You maybe have a stack taker, and you maybe are
Speaker 4: like who's taking notes right now, But stuff like timekeeper
Speaker 4: and vibes check might be a thing that everyone feels
Speaker 4: empowered to do. I think that understanding these as roles
Speaker 4: is different than saying at the top of the meeting,
Speaker 4: this is the way it is done. You must assign
Speaker 4: these things. It is always contextual based on the meeting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, the range inside of the meeting structure of like
Speaker 3: how formal and informal it is changes a lot. And
Speaker 3: that yeah, that like changes you know, that changes the roles,
Speaker 3: That changes how all of this stuff works totally. And
Speaker 3: that's one of the most important things about this is
Speaker 3: like being flexible, because the point of a meeting is
Speaker 3: not everyone followed the exact parliamentary procedures. The point of
Speaker 3: a meeting is we did the thing we came there
Speaker 3: to do, or sometimes we did we did a different thing, right,
Speaker 3: But it's like we all did something together and that
Speaker 3: thing happened, but we figured out how to make that
Speaker 3: thing happen. And that's the actual important part. The content
Speaker 3: the meeting is what's important. Not all of the structure
Speaker 3: is to enable the content. It's not the other way
Speaker 3: around it. Yeah, totally, right, totally and like yeah, I
Speaker 3: don't know, like if you have a timekeeper and someone
Speaker 3: does sen, they're doing time stuff too, right, Like that's
Speaker 3: a significantly better result.
Speaker 5: Then.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we just kept talking, So.
Speaker 4: Okay, can I make one more pitch about the thing
Speaker 4: that's important at a meeting?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah. Food.
Speaker 4: I think that it's not always going to be appropriate
Speaker 4: in every specific situation, and there's a lot of things
Speaker 4: around dietary restrictions and all of these things, but making
Speaker 4: the meeting feel like a place that is worth going
Speaker 4: to and a thing that like I think food is
Speaker 4: basically like hosting and good hospitality and these sort of
Speaker 4: again invisibilized feminine labor things goes a really long way
Speaker 4: towards making everyone feel comfortable. It also helps people's attend
Speaker 4: spans and blood sugar, like whether every meeting's a pot
Speaker 4: luck or whether everyone just brings snacks, or whether it's
Speaker 4: at someone's house and they're like, fuck ya, I'm hosting.
Speaker 4: I'm going to make a bunch of food and you
Speaker 4: know whatever it is.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I've been theorizing this for a while that like
Speaker 3: we need because like obviously a lot of this technology
Speaker 3: has been worked out already, but also we have so
Speaker 3: much further to go in order to like be able
Speaker 3: to make decisions together in a free society, and like,
Speaker 3: I think we need to just have an initiative of
Speaker 3: like how do we make meetings fucking rip. One of
Speaker 3: my ideas has always been, like you have a meeting
Speaker 3: that's just like the standing barbecue meeting that happens like
Speaker 3: every like it's like the endless meeting, and it's like, okay,
Speaker 3: you have it at like yeah this time, and there's
Speaker 3: just like a barbecue and everyone does barbecue.
Speaker 4: Stuff and yeah, it's just a standing thing where if
Speaker 4: you want to come and like and then okay, just
Speaker 4: to keep talking about some of the stuff childcare, childcare,
Speaker 4: you think when you mentioned at the beginning being like
Speaker 4: making sure that the space is accessible to everyone. And
Speaker 4: there's a lot of stuff that gets forgotten about. In particular,
Speaker 4: I would say that single parents are often forgotten about,
Speaker 4: and I think that having or parents in general, or
Speaker 4: children in general are often forgotten about. And I think
Speaker 4: that having a plan in place for accessibility of all
Speaker 4: kinds of different people often includes childcare.
Speaker 3: I used to do this. Oh that's cool. Yeah, that's
Speaker 3: like one of the things that I did for some meetings,
Speaker 3: and like, yeah, there are like meetings that happened. They're
Speaker 3: like tens meetings that happened because like people stayed and
Speaker 3: played with everyone's kids. It was a good time.
Speaker 4: And yeah, there's also this idea where sometimes meetings people
Speaker 4: can come in and out of the society that I
Speaker 4: want to live in has neighborhood assemblies that then move
Speaker 4: up to larger structures and make decisions right. And in
Speaker 4: those there's also this thing where it's like you don't
Speaker 4: always have to go to meetings. Yeah, there's a thing
Speaker 4: that about democracy that people don't quite always get, which
Speaker 4: is that sometimes the most beautiful thing we can do
Speaker 4: for each other is give our agency freely to other
Speaker 4: people to make decisions for us that we trust. Working
Speaker 4: groups are actually a good, big part of this where
Speaker 4: I'm like, I don't actually want to have a say
Speaker 4: in every single decision that affects me. I want to
Speaker 4: be able to have a say in every single decision
Speaker 4: that affects me. Anyway, I'm again going kind of meta
Speaker 4: on this.
Speaker 3: Sorry, no, no, both this is important, right, you know.
Speaker 3: And also, like doing the childcare was part of that,
Speaker 3: because like, yeah, it meant like, you know, I was
Speaker 3: kind of I was like trusting my people in the
Speaker 3: group to like do the meeting without me while I
Speaker 3: was just sort of like taking care of like just
Speaker 3: taking care of kids. And that was a really beautiful
Speaker 3: thing and it worked really well. It fucking ripped.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you can build multi generational movements, which are
Speaker 4: the only movements that accomplish That's not true.
Speaker 3: Sudden movements also accomplish things.
Speaker 4: But when I look at some of the real high
Speaker 4: water marks from the bottom and the left organizing around
Speaker 4: the world, you're talking about people who are drawn from
Speaker 4: hundreds of years of radical legacies, or at least a
Speaker 4: couple of generations.
Speaker 3: Yeah, speaking of generations, I don't know, I don't have
Speaker 3: a good pivot into this. But okay, so we've been
Speaker 3: talking a lot of about a lot of the technology
Speaker 3: that's been used for meetings. I want to talk about
Speaker 3: a couple of other kinds of meetings that you can have.
Speaker 3: When I originally was writing this, I was like, Oh,
Speaker 3: I could fit this whole, this whole section of how
Speaker 3: to run a meeting. This will be like, this will
Speaker 3: be like twenty minutes, and I can have twenty minutes
Speaker 3: about like the spokes councils, of twenty minutes about general assemblies.
Speaker 3: And we're not like an hour. We're not This is
Speaker 3: like this episode in market On and we have not
Speaker 3: even started talking. So okay, that's going to be another
Speaker 3: The general assembly episode is going to be another episode
Speaker 3: completely in and of itself. But I do want to
Speaker 3: talk about spokes councils because this is the thing that
Speaker 3: I've been finding really really useful that I think people
Speaker 3: just don't know about anymore. And because people have lost
Speaker 3: the knowledge of this, a really valuable organizational tactic has
Speaker 3: been lost. So okay, the thing that a meeting is
Speaker 3: there to do is so a group of people can
Speaker 3: come together and make decisions. But how do you make
Speaker 3: decisions between groups or and this is also often more
Speaker 3: important less than having like because you know a lot
Speaker 3: of spokes countles are usually supposed to be like we're
Speaker 3: all making like we're all sort of like this is
Speaker 3: like a binding decision handed down by like spokes council. Right,
Speaker 3: this is also a really useful coordinating tool. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: this is what it's you know, what it's like actually
Speaker 3: designed for is how do you get groups to sort
Speaker 3: of talk to each other and work with each other
Speaker 3: in a way that also lets them continue to be
Speaker 3: like their own groups and not you know, a sort
Speaker 3: of like subservient to the larger coalition.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, the answer to this turns out
Speaker 3: as a technology that was developed. Actually don't know the
Speaker 3: history of the spokest council. I mean it's been around
Speaker 3: for like a long time. I don't either, like at
Speaker 3: least like thirty forty years in anarchist circles, but it
Speaker 3: has really made it out of them. And so spokes
Speaker 3: council is a meeting of groups, and so it's it's
Speaker 3: it's a meeting of spokespeople.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: So your group sends like one or two people to
Speaker 3: a thing. You send like a couple of people and
Speaker 3: all of the other groups send some people and you
Speaker 3: come talk about a thing. Yeah, And this is really
Speaker 3: useful for a number of reasons. One, it's a way
Speaker 3: for different kinds of groups to interface with each other
Speaker 3: in ways that they usually don't. So this can be
Speaker 3: anything from like an affinity group to like an NGO
Speaker 3: to like a union. Ye, it can scale between different
Speaker 3: kinds of things. It can theoretically you can do this
Speaker 3: with like you you're like fucking spokes council could theoretically
Speaker 3: send a person to another spokes council totally right, And
Speaker 3: this is you know, we'll get more to this a second, right,
Speaker 3: but like, like, like, this is a way for a
Speaker 3: bunch of different types of organizations to come together and
Speaker 3: do something. And it's a way for them to coordinate
Speaker 3: with each other. It's way for other share information. It's
Speaker 3: a way for them to and this is like one
Speaker 3: of the sort of secrets of organizing is that, like
Speaker 3: actual organizing is built through personal relationships with people knowing
Speaker 3: each other. And so this is a way for like
Speaker 3: people to like meet each other and get to do things.
Speaker 3: There are different kinds of these. A traditional one is like, Okay,
Speaker 3: there's like a thing happening right, Like, there is a
Speaker 3: there is a giant protest, and like a bunch of
Speaker 3: people who are going to be a bunch of the
Speaker 3: different groups and organizations in diffinity groups and whatever we're
Speaker 3: going to be at this thing come together and they're like, Okay,
Speaker 3: how what are we doing? How are we going to
Speaker 3: sort of do this and how do we coordinate this
Speaker 3: with each other?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And yeah, Mark, I assume you've been in like a
Speaker 3: million of these.
Speaker 5: You know.
Speaker 4: I have been in a lot of spokes Council meetings.
Speaker 4: I've been in a fewer of them, and I think
Speaker 4: you're right, there's been a bit of a drop off.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's funny.
Speaker 4: When we were talking earlier, I was like, oh, I
Speaker 4: haven't done this in a while. I actually do go
Speaker 4: to meetings every week, but I like, but I used
Speaker 4: to go to meetings specifically for direct action protests, and
Speaker 4: that is a thing that I used to have more
Speaker 4: direct experience with. Yeah, and so I don't want to
Speaker 4: be like all people stop doing it because I don't
Speaker 4: totally know because I'm not totally plugged in. But I
Speaker 4: do think the alder globalization movement of like nineteen ninety
Speaker 4: nine to two thousand and three or so, is where
Speaker 4: a lot of modern protest tactics and stuff were developed,
Speaker 4: or rather it came to a head. The tactics have
Speaker 4: been developed for decades by various different groups. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: actually a lot of the technologies around spokes, councils and stuff,
Speaker 4: they come from a lot of different sources, including I
Speaker 4: think anarchists and the Spanish Civil War, but I'm not
Speaker 4: one hundred percent certain about that. But a lot of
Speaker 4: the alter globalization movement stuff comes from the zappoutisas in Chiapas.
Speaker 3: I know you didn't ask for history lesson and I'll
Speaker 3: speed run it. No, no, no, no, this is good though.
Speaker 4: You know, the folks in Chiapas and the Zapatisas have
Speaker 4: developed a lot of different ideas about how to have
Speaker 4: bottom up democracy, and they've been moving through different ones.
Speaker 4: They actually moved to a more decentralized model than they
Speaker 4: were doing about two years ago, in twenty twenty three.
Speaker 4: But they went around the world and built organizations by
Speaker 4: saying everyone, send your people, We're getting together, the People's
Speaker 4: Global Alliance like all of these like you know, Global South,
Speaker 4: and were putting in air quotes. Here we're getting together
Speaker 4: and we're building direct action movements together, and that is
Speaker 4: where the ault globalization movement comes from, at least as
Speaker 4: much as anything else. And some of that is that
Speaker 4: technology of saying, send your representatives and do this thing.
Speaker 4: But it's interesting because in some ways it's actually just
Speaker 4: an upside down version of parliamentary democracy, right, where theoretically
Speaker 4: we elect a politician and they go speak for us.
Speaker 3: They don't.
Speaker 4: That is the concept behind a democracy, right, And so
Speaker 4: theoretically you can send a delegate, and there's two ways
Speaker 4: of doing it. There's a decision making larger body and
Speaker 4: there's a coordinating larger body. And if you want to
Speaker 4: maintain every group's autonomy, it is a coordinating body. You
Speaker 4: get together and at the spokes council you say, the
Speaker 4: ten people I represent who will remain nameless, are all
Speaker 4: willing to get arrested tomorrow, and we're all willing to
Speaker 4: lock ourselves down. And someone else will say, we don't
Speaker 4: want to get arrested. The fourteen people that I'm representing
Speaker 4: kind of want to break shit. And then other people
Speaker 4: will be like, the fifteen people that I represent kind
Speaker 4: of wish you all wouldn't break shit, and you can
Speaker 4: get together and coordinate, and then the breakshit people can
Speaker 4: be like, oh, okay, well we'll make sure we break
Speaker 4: shit somewhere else than where you are and all of
Speaker 4: this stuff. And whereas a decision making body would get
Speaker 4: together and your spoke would have a mandate from your group,
Speaker 4: they would be empowered to make decisions for everyone, knowing
Speaker 4: that the decision has to be within a certain framework.
Speaker 4: And then basically when they're done, you'd be like, Okay,
Speaker 4: you did or didn't succeed at your mandate. We're going
Speaker 4: to send someone else next time, or whatever. So there's
Speaker 4: two different ways of doing spokes council meetings. I think
Speaker 4: one of the reasons that they fell out of favor
Speaker 4: is that by and large, open organizing of direct action
Speaker 4: has diminished in the movement because it may or may
Speaker 4: not be legal to show up somewhere and say, well,
Speaker 4: the fifteen people I represent want to break shit, or
Speaker 4: even the fifteen people that I represent want to lock
Speaker 4: ourselves down into big puppets with lock boxes right and
Speaker 4: disrupt global trade. Because of the ramping up of repression,
Speaker 4: people have backed off of certain types of open organizing Yeah,
Speaker 4: I have opinions about that, but that's kind.
Speaker 3: Of I'm actually not trying to tell anyone what to
Speaker 3: do about it.
Speaker 4: But so I think that that's part of why the
Speaker 4: spokes Council has a little bit demas and I actually
Speaker 4: think that we just need to adapt the spokes Council
Speaker 4: to the modern context. And I'm sure people do still
Speaker 4: do them.
Speaker 3: So this is where we're getting this is this is
Speaker 3: what I'm calling them via technology, which is there have
Speaker 3: been spokes councils recently that are not like that are
Speaker 3: not this, that are using the idea of the spokes
Speaker 3: Council but are kind of a different thing. Okay, because
Speaker 3: there's another thing that you can do with this organizational form,
Speaker 3: right of everyone sends their delegates together or whatever, like
Speaker 3: everyone sends their like spokespeople and everyone meets each other.
Speaker 3: You can also do this for like not planning a
Speaker 3: direct action. Yeah, totally. And you can do this as
Speaker 3: a way to get all of the different organizations and
Speaker 3: like affinity groups and shit in a city talking to
Speaker 3: each other. Yeah, and this turns out to be extremely useful.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I've seen this a lot recently in sort of trans organizing,
Speaker 3: where like all the trans different groups of the city
Speaker 3: will be like, fuck it, we're showing up to a thing. Yeah,
Speaker 3: this is a different thing that we will be talking
Speaker 3: hopefully to some people who run this soon. This was
Speaker 3: originally supposedly part of this episode before I realized that
Speaker 3: it was impossible to fit this into this episode, which
Speaker 3: is had two episodes. But there's a really really cool
Speaker 3: thing in Portland that was called the Trans General Assembly,
Speaker 3: where they people were just like fuck it, were running
Speaker 3: a general assembly for like all of the trans people come.
Speaker 3: You can say things and everyone meets at the end,
Speaker 3: and that was awesome. But you can do this on
Speaker 3: a very very on a targeted level with like Okay,
Speaker 3: I know a bunch of different orgs that like, for example, okay,
Speaker 3: we need we need to coordinate a response to like
Speaker 3: the situation of trans people in the US. Yeah, So
Speaker 3: you can go through all of your networks. You can
Speaker 3: be like, okay, I know this person who is in
Speaker 3: this org that does this thing right, and you can
Speaker 3: bring all of those resources together and then you can
Speaker 3: turn that into a spokes council. That's not quite the
Speaker 3: same thing exactly as as the kind of like direct
Speaker 3: actions spokes constles that have been organized.
Speaker 4: Right, it is closer to a general assembly maybe, but
Speaker 4: maybe that's a pedantic difference or semantic difference.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it kind of is, but it's well, so okay.
Speaker 3: The way I've been conceiving of it is like, if
Speaker 3: you're specifically getting people together who are there as organizations,
Speaker 3: it's a spokes council. Yeah, totally. If they're there as themselves,
Speaker 3: it's a general assembly. Oh that makes sense, even even
Speaker 3: if they are sort of like representing a thing. But
Speaker 3: like yeah, like like the scopes and who shows up
Speaker 3: to them were very different, I think. Oh, and there's
Speaker 3: also fishballs. Well, what's a fishball? Actually, I've heard this
Speaker 3: one before.
Speaker 4: A fish bull is a spokes council where everyone can
Speaker 4: come and only the spoke can speak. Hm, so you
Speaker 4: can look in on the fish Oh that's what that's called.
Speaker 4: Interesting Okay, Yeah, anyway, which is a way to do it.
Speaker 4: It maintains transparency. It's a way to have a still
Speaker 4: open meeting, but only but if only one person from
Speaker 4: the group has empowered to speak, then it's not a
Speaker 4: nightmare of trying to have six thousand people in a
Speaker 4: room talk.
Speaker 3: The basic beating technology all these things can be used
Speaker 3: for a whole bunch of different things in a whole
Speaker 3: bunch of different ways that like we haven't thought of yet.
Speaker 4: You could arrange trash pick up in a neighborhood. You
Speaker 4: can make the government obsolete with meetings and spokes councils
Speaker 4: and general assemblies and federations and all of these levels
Speaker 4: of bottom up organizing. And there are places in the
Speaker 4: world where people have done this.
Speaker 3: Yeah. And you know, if we want to close on
Speaker 3: sort of like this is the political angle of this, right,
Speaker 3: Like a free society is one that is structured like this,
Speaker 3: where a bunch of where things happen by people coming
Speaker 3: together to do them. Yeah. Right, And you can take
Speaker 3: the sort of like I don't know, I guess you'd
Speaker 3: call it the workerri'st angle of like I don't know,
Speaker 3: we need to run a waste treatment plant, yeah right.
Speaker 3: So the way the race treatment plant is run is
Speaker 3: that the people who do waste treatment have their own
Speaker 3: like workers counselor or whatever, and they decide how they're
Speaker 3: going to do it and they go do it. Right.
Speaker 4: Almost every I would say, every real revolution and revolution
Speaker 4: utionary movement in history is doing a version of this.
Speaker 4: You can even look at the Soviet concept. The Soviet
Speaker 4: was the decision making body, it was the assembly and
Speaker 4: all power to the Soviets with this slogan that literally
Speaker 4: was inverted by the Bolsheviks, where the entire idea was
Speaker 4: a democratic but revolutionary movement. And this happens constantly even
Speaker 4: when societies break down on some level naturally and a
Speaker 4: ton not all, a ton of indigenous societies, this is
Speaker 4: the default model. And so you know in Chiapas with
Speaker 4: the Zapatistas, what happened was is that you had this
Speaker 4: like Marxist Leninist army and they were like, oh, we're
Speaker 4: going to do this thing this way, and the indigenous
Speaker 4: people who lived in Chapas were like, that's not how
Speaker 4: we do things.
Speaker 3: And they're like, this is how we do things.
Speaker 4: And then those Appatistas, who are good people, were like,
Speaker 4: you're right, that's how we do things, you know, and
Speaker 4: they like built up this model. And you have a
Speaker 4: similar thing happening with the area called Rojeva in north
Speaker 4: east Syria, where like basically people were like, actually, the
Speaker 4: indigenous Kurdish model of doing things is much more this
Speaker 4: egalitarian method and democratic method.
Speaker 3: And then okay.
Speaker 4: And the other thing is you can do it in
Speaker 4: the workers's model, but there's also people who've messed around
Speaker 4: with it and done things like you know what, maybe
Speaker 4: the school isn't run by the teachers. Maybe the school
Speaker 4: is run by the teachers, the parents and the students,
Speaker 4: you know. And maybe the food distribution center is a
Speaker 4: combination of the workers of the food distribution center and
Speaker 4: the people who make use of it. So maybe the
Speaker 4: trash pickup is both the workers and the people who
Speaker 4: need the services. But the specifics almost they do matter,
Speaker 4: and we can but we don't know. We don't know
Speaker 4: the actual formulation. But this is the core of bottom
Speaker 4: left organizing and it is a beautiful thing. And it
Speaker 4: is funny how it all comes down to meetings and
Speaker 4: making sure that there's food and childcare and not one
Speaker 4: person taking up all the time, which is really hard
Speaker 4: when you podcast for a living.
Speaker 3: I will tell you that. Yeah, but this is like,
Speaker 3: you know, I have had to learn to shut the
Speaker 3: fuck up in meetings. Yeah, me to, but doing it
Speaker 3: has made meetings better. It's great. You can learn to
Speaker 3: shut the fuck up. Someone else says the thing and
Speaker 3: you don't have to say yeah. But then also, I
Speaker 3: do want to put this out right, the things that
Speaker 3: we're describing here, Right, it's okay, like how do you
Speaker 3: do to beat or you need food, you need child care,
Speaker 3: you need structure that make sure one person isn't running
Speaker 3: the thing. This is the entire political situation of the
Speaker 3: modern United States, right. We are trying to get food,
Speaker 3: we are trying to get childcare, we are trying to
Speaker 3: have a place to do our thing, and we're trying
Speaker 3: to have to not be ruled by like a fucking king. Totally. Again,
Speaker 3: this all seems like very very basic, like shit, right,
Speaker 3: But if you don't have this, and this is a
Speaker 3: problem that the US has constantly, your protest movements, it's
Speaker 3: like most Americans don't have a democratic tradition, right, and
Speaker 3: so when shit happens and there's suddenly riots and they're
Speaker 3: suddenly like mass protest movements break out, Right, people don't
Speaker 3: know how to make democratic decisions, so they don't, right,
Speaker 3: and that means that nobody's talking to each other. That
Speaker 3: means that everyone is locked in these very small circles
Speaker 3: of extremely violent paranoia. That sucks. And we can avoid
Speaker 3: that by knowing how to do democracy. Because that's fundamentally
Speaker 3: what running and meeting is. This is what democracy looks like. Yeah,
Speaker 3: And I also want to say one more thing. This
Speaker 3: is a podcast and would that would probably could I
Speaker 3: could have used the facilitator, especially on my end right now,
Speaker 3: because unmedicated mia is a fucking trip. But like you know,
Speaker 3: when we talk about sort of are how do you
Speaker 3: apply this to your sort of broad vision of society?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: And it's like, okay, anarchists, how do you run USAID?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 3: Because like, yeah, like the destructure of USAID is going
Speaker 3: to kill an unbelievable number of people because people are
Speaker 3: getting HIV vaccines right right. And the way you run
Speaker 3: that is the way that you run a meeting.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 3: The workers who produce ye to act, who are the
Speaker 3: people who actually figure out how to make an HIV vaccine,
Speaker 3: distribute it, distribute information about it. Those people form fucking
Speaker 3: form fucking councils, and they form fucking meeting groups. They
Speaker 3: and they work in collaboration with the people who need them,
Speaker 3: and that is how you build a society, right. It's
Speaker 3: like David Gabor's thing was was like the ultimate hidden
Speaker 3: truth of this world is that it is something we
Speaker 3: make and we could just as easily make differently. And
Speaker 3: when he says something we make, he was talking about
Speaker 3: in a more abstract sense, but like we do literally
Speaker 3: make it. Like all of this stuff is the product
Speaker 3: of stuff that we did, right, Like we all physically
Speaker 3: built every aspect of this world, right, everything, Everything that
Speaker 3: you see and touch and hear right now are things
Speaker 3: that we designed and engineered and built. And we don't
Speaker 3: lose the capacity when we cease to be ruled. We
Speaker 3: can still do that. And as long as we have
Speaker 3: the ability to do democracy right and we have the
Speaker 3: ability to make decisions with each other, we can fucking
Speaker 3: do those things. And we can do them for each
Speaker 3: other and not for a king.
Speaker 4: Yeah, It's like people ask, how would you make a
Speaker 4: distributed insulin in anarchist society or an anti capitalist society
Speaker 4: or a bottom up society, And you're like, well, we
Speaker 4: know how to make and distribute insulin, and we just
Speaker 4: need to change some of the social technologies that are
Speaker 4: doing it. And I think we could probably do it
Speaker 4: better because it's currently not working great, you know. And
Speaker 4: my other like go to quote I love the graver
Speaker 4: quote is the Derudi quote anarchist general in Spanish of war.
Speaker 4: Probably didn't actually say this. It was probably a journalist
Speaker 4: put these words in his mouth, but we're not actually certain.
Speaker 4: And he says like the boot I'm paraphrasing the BOUCHOAISI
Speaker 4: can blast and ruin the world on their way out
Speaker 4: of history. That's fine. Yeah, we the workers built all
Speaker 4: of these cities. We can build, we know how to
Speaker 4: do that.
Speaker 3: The part of that always stuck with me is like,
Speaker 3: I think the exact quote that I got was we
Speaker 3: are not in the least afraid of ruins.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Ever, the ones who built this world and we'll do
Speaker 3: it again. Yeah and yeah. So I don't know.
Speaker 4: I don't know these these episodes are gonna be called.
Speaker 4: But if they're called, the answer as meetings comma, Sorry,
Speaker 4: I think.
Speaker 3: Okay, I don't know who is good end to be
Speaker 3: the provisional title right now is the most important organizing skill?
Speaker 3: You don't know, because unfortunately we do need people to
Speaker 3: click on this and they won't. If it's a meaning
Speaker 3: things as.
Speaker 4: Well, then that's the monster at the end of the book,
Speaker 4: is that, Uh, it's meetings all the way down.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Margaret, thanks for thanks for talking with me about
Speaker 3: the actual fundamental building blocks and tools of democratic life.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Thanks, thanks for having me and thanks for talking about
Speaker 3: this stuff. Yeah, and this has been It can happen here.
Speaker 3: You can go out in your community and you can
Speaker 3: do these things. You can force pos councils, you can
Speaker 3: form assemblies, you can go work with the people around
Speaker 3: you to do things, and you can use structures to
Speaker 3: do it, and you can change the world. The secret
Speaker 3: is to really begin.
Speaker 2: Hell yeah, ah, welcome back to It could happen here.
Speaker 2: A podcast that is normally about the terrors, but today
Speaker 2: today we're talking about I mean, technically still the terrors,
Speaker 2: but we're talking about a more fun part of the terrors.
Speaker 2: We're talking about the liver King. Thank God, Thank God.
Speaker 6: Gods and kings, two things we famously appreciate on this podcast.
Speaker 2: With me today is James Stout and Meil Wong. What
Speaker 2: do y'all know about the liver King? I thought you
Speaker 2: were gonna give us cool titles.
Speaker 6: Just if we could just go back and you could
Speaker 6: each give us some kind of some kind of nobility
Speaker 6: and of food stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, sure, James, you are the tea leaf salad that
Speaker 2: made you really say that one time.
Speaker 3: King's true.
Speaker 6: I think that Tea leave settle room me Atina.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good to him.
Speaker 6: It made me subject.
Speaker 3: And I you know, you and I haven'ty and a lot.
Speaker 2: Of meals together. We need to do more of that, right,
Speaker 2: we need to do more of that. You're the You're
Speaker 2: the I have not eaten many meals with me yet,
Speaker 2: but hopefully will Queen. Incredible, incredible, incredible. Now, the Liver
Speaker 2: King is the King of liver, as you're all, I'm
Speaker 2: certain well aware, and I did.
Speaker 3: We did a bastards.
Speaker 2: This was a live episode I did a couple of
Speaker 2: years ago with doctor cave Hoda. And in case you're
Speaker 2: not aware, the Liver King is a guy who like
Speaker 2: three two or three years ago started to get really
Speaker 2: famous very suddenly and obtained millions of followers I think
Speaker 2: up to like six at one point on Instagram.
Speaker 3: By getting super jacked.
Speaker 2: He was this huge, shredded guy, or he's not he's
Speaker 2: not actually very tall, but he was shredded and he
Speaker 2: would He was always perpetually shirtless, usually wearing very little
Speaker 2: and talking about his different primal rules how mainly you
Speaker 2: need to eat nothing but liver and testicles, often raw,
Speaker 2: and that's all you need to do in order to
Speaker 2: get huge. That and then you can just lift hundreds
Speaker 2: and hundreds of pounds and you'll get swollen and gigantic.
Speaker 2: Totally natty because we're just we're supposed to eat like
Speaker 2: primal cavemen who only ate testicles and livers. Enough the
Speaker 2: rest now accepting the how none of this is accurate.
Speaker 2: It came out very soon after that because the liver King,
Speaker 2: prior to becoming the liver King, had been a series
Speaker 2: of petty grifters of lower nobility and had written an
Speaker 2: email to a guy who was like an expert on
Speaker 2: performance enhancing drugs, asking like what kind of regiment he
Speaker 2: could take in order to get the size that he
Speaker 2: eventually became. Anyway, it came out that he's been spending
Speaker 2: like thirteen thousand dollars a month on steroids like that.
Speaker 2: That's how he got huge. It's not the testicles, it's
Speaker 2: not the livers. It's not these absurd videos of him
Speaker 2: eating different organ meats or making his kids eat different
Speaker 2: organ meats. It's not his his weird workout tactics. It's
Speaker 2: the fact that he's taking thirteen thousand dollars worth of
Speaker 2: gear a month.
Speaker 3: Right now.
Speaker 2: One of the first people to call him out before
Speaker 2: this came out was Joe Rogan who saw the And
Speaker 2: you know, I'll give Joe Rogan credit for one thing.
Speaker 3: He knows when someone's on steroids. Yeah, So Joe.
Speaker 2: Rogan had called him out initially, being like, there's no
Speaker 2: way this guy's natural, right, Like, he's taking fucking steroids.
Speaker 2: It's very obvious now, to be fair, everyone knew that
Speaker 2: because it's very like, I don't.
Speaker 3: Know shit about steroids. And I looked at that guy,
Speaker 3: like his belly button pushes out.
Speaker 6: Yes, isn't like Robert's not talking about an AUTI no, No,
Speaker 6: I'm talking about it's.
Speaker 3: A Gulf bowl. So it's protrusion, like the Organs are
Speaker 3: trying to escape. This man is so clearly eighty percent
Speaker 3: steroids volume. That is the highest volume of steroids to
Speaker 3: body mass that has ever existent.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nuts stuff. So he lost a shitload of
Speaker 2: his followers and he's still got like three million on Instagram,
Speaker 2: but his videos, he's lucky to get a couple of
Speaker 2: thousand like likes and share these days on an Instagram video.
Speaker 2: And you know, before that all came out, he was
Speaker 2: doing much more he had to do Ama Kolpa. He
Speaker 2: claims he's all natty now and he has just over
Speaker 2: the last couple of years, just continually degraded.
Speaker 3: Right now.
Speaker 2: This guy's business, which he made millions doing, or one
Speaker 2: of his businesses was selling different supplements. He's very expensive supplements.
Speaker 2: And he's built kind of a little cult at his
Speaker 2: compound in Texas around you know, listening to fucking dance
Speaker 2: music from the mid aunts a lot of like Mike
Speaker 2: Posnor remixes and weird shit rands about being a caveman
Speaker 2: and like pulling trapped your equipment and shit. He likes
Speaker 2: to always walk around with fucking a with a plate
Speaker 2: carrier on which he calls his exoskeleton in order to like,
Speaker 2: you know, build up muscle.
Speaker 3: Mass or whatever. And anyway, he's he's continually.
Speaker 2: Degenerated to the point where those of us who call
Speaker 2: ourselves liver king watchers have all kind of been saying
Speaker 2: for a while now, Oh, he's not just on gear anymore,
Speaker 2: like he's doing he's he he's doing other drugs and
Speaker 2: they have had they are really having a negative effect
Speaker 2: on his mental health. Yeah, he doesn't seem well, He
Speaker 2: does not seem well, so I'm gonna put a video
Speaker 2: play video on. This is a video that started at all.
Speaker 2: He started a couple of weeks ago, increasingly threatening Joe Rogan.
Speaker 2: And he doesn't live that far away from Austin. He
Speaker 2: started posting a series of videos trying to threaten Joe
Speaker 2: Rogan to a fight, and I'm gonna I'm gonna post
Speaker 2: to you the one. This is kind of like the
Speaker 2: key video that gets this series of events started. It's
Speaker 2: the video that is the inciting incident video for everything
Speaker 2: that's happening now, right, So that's that's what I'm gonna
Speaker 2: play for you guys. You see the Instagram. Okay, So
Speaker 2: in this video, listeners, you're gonna hear him talk. In
Speaker 2: this video, he's got again like music playing in the background.
Speaker 2: He's wearing a badly taxidermide wolfhead that's like a cap
Speaker 2: over his icular head.
Speaker 5: It's like.
Speaker 3: He's shirtless.
Speaker 2: He's wearing shorts and as one user noted in the comments,
Speaker 2: his pants are vibrating as he talks and he is
Speaker 2: carrying in each hand. He has a gold plated AR
Speaker 2: fifteen shirt barreled rifle with a fucking.
Speaker 3: Blast for yes, in my entire life. I have never
Speaker 3: seen a man look less intimidating well, holding a gun,
Speaker 3: wearing a wolf pelt. Two guns, Man, two guns, the
Speaker 3: second gun. Two guns. Yeah, holy ship, you blunder buds.
Speaker 2: Those are two gold plated AR fifteen SBRs.
Speaker 6: With a gold eotech on talking in case he hadn't
Speaker 6: spent enough money.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I think a gold wood on the other.
Speaker 2: So anyway, I'm gonna listen to this man, Joe Rogan,
Speaker 2: I'm calling you out.
Speaker 5: My name is Leberty Man to man, I'm picking a
Speaker 5: fight with you. Yeah, I have still training. If you
Speaker 5: just to your black belt, you should just man tell me.
Speaker 5: But I'm picking a fight with you. Fund rule. Whatever
Speaker 5: you want me to wait, I'll wait. I'll wait one night,
Speaker 5: this morning, I'll wait. I'm you whenever you're ready, whenever
Speaker 5: you're ready to go at my brains.
Speaker 2: And then he get starts dancing, So I'm on a
Speaker 2: vibration blate. By the way, that's a healthy man. That's
Speaker 2: a guy who's doing well. Right, we can all agree.
Speaker 6: It's a literally buzzy.
Speaker 3: I saw a video one time where someone was reacting
Speaker 3: to a Drake video and his response was those are
Speaker 3: the least intimidating goons I've ever seen in my entire life.
Speaker 3: And that is the entire vibe of watching him trying
Speaker 3: to like brain a place. It's something else, it's it's
Speaker 3: it is special. Uh, it is special.
Speaker 2: And if you couldn't quite make out the audio over whatever,
Speaker 2: the fuck that music was what he says, and that
Speaker 2: is Joe Rogan. I'm calling you out. My name's Liver King,
Speaker 2: man the man. I'm picking a fight with you. I
Speaker 2: have no training in jiu jitsu. You're a black belt.
Speaker 2: You should just dismantle me. But I'm picking a fight
Speaker 2: with you.
Speaker 3: Your rules. I'll come to you whenever you're ready.
Speaker 6: Holding the AARs does give that a slightly slightly more
Speaker 6: terroristic threatn vibe?
Speaker 3: Right, why are the ars?
Speaker 2: Because he goes on to say at another post, you
Speaker 2: never come across something like this willing to die, hoping
Speaker 2: that you'll choke me out, because that's a dream come true,
Speaker 2: which makes it sound.
Speaker 3: Like a sex thing. Right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes
Speaker 3: it sound like a sex thing.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: He closed out Pride months so.
Speaker 2: This video comes out and then Liver King starts making
Speaker 2: a series of videos in Austin, Right, he drives to Austin.
Speaker 2: He's making videos on the way. He makes videos when
Speaker 2: he gets there, and he keeps saying he wants to
Speaker 2: fight Joe Rogan. Now he's just saying he wants to
Speaker 2: fight him.
Speaker 3: Right, He's not.
Speaker 2: Saying I'm going to kill you. He's not saying like
Speaker 2: I'm going to assault you. He's like he's asking for
Speaker 2: a consensual fight. But he's also posing with weapons, and
Speaker 2: he has now traveled to Austin and he's clearly unwell.
Speaker 2: So Joe Rogan has a security team. He's got a
Speaker 2: bunch of like former operators and shit that he pays
Speaker 2: to watch over his security and whatnot and sometimes go
Speaker 2: on his podcast if I'm not mistaken, And they do
Speaker 2: their job, which is, oh, there's a guy threatening our boss,
Speaker 2: holding guns and photos and he's traveled to Austin.
Speaker 3: We'll probably call the cops, which probably do something about this.
Speaker 3: So they give.
Speaker 2: A call to the police and they're like, hey, we
Speaker 2: consider this to be like numerous threats, right, he's traveled
Speaker 2: to Austin, Like this seems like a guy who might
Speaker 2: actually act seriously on his threats.
Speaker 3: We're concerned about this.
Speaker 2: So the police wind up talking to Joe Rogan himself,
Speaker 2: and Rogan says, yeah, I was, you know, my security
Speaker 2: team told me about this. I consider these to be threats, like,
Speaker 2: and I'm willing to file a police report.
Speaker 6: Right.
Speaker 2: He tells the police that Brian Johnson has a drug issue,
Speaker 2: which is, again it's weird to be like, yeah, Joe
Speaker 2: Rogan so far not wrong about an AFIS, And he's like,
Speaker 2: he's unstable, he probably needs help, which again probably accurate. Right,
Speaker 2: I don't think I don't think there's much to argue
Speaker 2: with here. So the police side these crossed the line
Speaker 2: into terroristic threats and they file charges. The Liver King
Speaker 2: is arrested. He's not in jail long. He's released within
Speaker 2: a day on twenty thousand dollars bond. There's a restraining order.
Speaker 2: He's not allowed to have guns anymore for a while.
Speaker 2: He's got to stay two hundred yards away from Rogan.
Speaker 2: So the Liver King does exactly what a guy like
Speaker 2: the you'd expect a guy like the Liver King to do,
Speaker 2: right in the wake of something like this happening, which is,
Speaker 2: he immediately gets out of jail and starts making more videos.
Speaker 2: Right of course, Yeah, from his hotel room in Austin.
Speaker 2: And again, these are just the videos of a really
Speaker 2: healthy guy who's doing well, whose brain is not has
Speaker 2: not liquefied, and isn't coming out of his ears, just
Speaker 2: a man who seems healthy.
Speaker 5: Thank you for all the prayers.
Speaker 8: By the way, people praying for me, you should also
Speaker 8: pray for yourself.
Speaker 5: Pray for your family.
Speaker 9: Lock that down, fifth bump pound, lock it down.
Speaker 3: You should do all that.
Speaker 8: I am going to the Capitol. I'm already in the Capital,
Speaker 8: but We're going to like capital capital, the location, and
Speaker 8: I've been given the gift of a restraining order just recently.
Speaker 5: And so if.
Speaker 8: Anybody knows, if someone else whose first name rhymes with blow,
Speaker 8: whose last name is Rogan, I'm not.
Speaker 9: Allowed to say it for a copyright, I might sue
Speaker 9: you about it. I'm not allowed to laugh. I'll see
Speaker 9: you have put you in Joe on that one too.
Speaker 2: Okay, So first off, he starts this, he admits in
Speaker 2: another video he falls a little earlier, that he hasn't
Speaker 2: slept in days, and he hasn't been eating, and he
Speaker 2: is slurring his words.
Speaker 3: At the start of this. He is not well.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's sober but it could just be
Speaker 2: sleep deprivation and the fact that something else is awry
Speaker 2: and he's like going to the capitol. He says, he
Speaker 2: wants to go to the capital to like start a
Speaker 2: legal precedent. He says, Liver King v. Joe Rogan is
Speaker 2: going to be like one of the great legal battles
Speaker 2: of our centurion terms of setting press, what kind of
Speaker 2: resident it's gonna be the new dread Scott. I gotta
Speaker 2: play you guys another video from right after his arrest
Speaker 2: in terms of like seeing how well this man is doing.
Speaker 2: This is the one where he talks about having not
Speaker 2: slept the days. It's gonna zoom it on his eyes
Speaker 2: and I need you to look at his pupils, Okay,
Speaker 2: because this is this seems like a man who's had
Speaker 2: a serious head injury to me because his his one
Speaker 2: of his pupils is a very different size from the others.
Speaker 5: Good born in prime.
Speaker 10: Oh wow, from the Vibration play that the greatest home
Speaker 10: state in the world.
Speaker 8: Often Texas.
Speaker 5: Texas is the state.
Speaker 8: Just to be clear, bags under my eyes haven't slept
Speaker 8: a whole lot and it's been an amazing gift.
Speaker 3: Uh what do you what do you see there people
Speaker 3: with medical training.
Speaker 6: Yeah, the human I shouldn't do that. That is like, yeah,
Speaker 6: then I'm supposed to look like that.
Speaker 3: That's one of the bad side, like twenty times bigger
Speaker 3: than the other people. It's bad.
Speaker 2: Like it's if I cared about this man, I would
Speaker 2: get him to a hospital immediately.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And to be clear, I don't.
Speaker 6: I kind of wonder the liver a filtering organ, right,
Speaker 6: it takes the bad stuff out.
Speaker 3: I feel like if that's all you eat, you're going
Speaker 3: to concentrate the bad You're going to poisoning. She almost
Speaker 3: certainly did do someone like slip him a bear liver
Speaker 3: or something polar bear liver, Like what's going on here? Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, he went up the food chain until he
Speaker 6: ate that wolf's liver and then put it on his head.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's very unclear to me. Is he actually eating that
Speaker 2: much liver? Like there's videos where he does, but like
Speaker 2: on a daily basis. He's also taking gear, so maybe
Speaker 2: he has a normal diet in order to like, you know,
Speaker 2: outside of it and this is just for show. There's
Speaker 2: been a lot of feorizing about that and we just
Speaker 2: don't know. But either way, I think it's safe to
Speaker 2: say this is a sick man, right, this is not
Speaker 2: a well person.
Speaker 5: Yea.
Speaker 6: His Instagram comments are not helping. Just give this man
Speaker 6: a gun immediately. Keep trying to fight Joe Rogan. But
Speaker 6: I believe you can do it right now.
Speaker 3: If someone is putting out a casting call for deranged
Speaker 3: man and like profit in the desert, he looks exactly
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: Absolutely the incredible added before we went completely looks amazing.
Speaker 3: He looks incredible.
Speaker 6: Yeah, he's got like two fun his haism can like.
Speaker 3: He looks like if you know the.
Speaker 6: Mural of John Brown, John Brown is like joke, That's
Speaker 6: what he looks like.
Speaker 3: He does.
Speaker 6: Different vibes.
Speaker 2: Speaking of different vibes, let's change off the vibes and
Speaker 2: play some hands.
Speaker 3: And we're back.
Speaker 2: So, friends, I got to play you this next video,
Speaker 2: which is after he gets out of jail, he goes
Speaker 2: to the Capitol, And this is him going through security
Speaker 2: at the Capitol as.
Speaker 3: Best I can tell, and he is.
Speaker 2: He's wearing like fucking waiting length pants, like pants that
Speaker 2: cut off just below your knee, so like they're high
Speaker 2: water smoke pants. He's wearing like a sleeveless green hoodie.
Speaker 2: And he has the hood up over his head, and
Speaker 2: then he's wearing a plate carrier and he's trying to
Speaker 2: It's just it's just really funny. It's just two ladies
Speaker 2: and like security informs. They're letting him try to go through.
Speaker 2: And I think this proves that he's If he was
Speaker 2: wearing ceramic plates, I don't think it would set off
Speaker 2: the metal detective. He's got be wearing those cheap AR
Speaker 2: five hundred metal plates. While yeah, yeah, I mean it's possible.
Speaker 2: This doesn't look like just a weight vest. That looks
Speaker 2: like just a normal plate carrier, although it'syeah, it's a.
Speaker 6: Five eleven TAC Tech.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it looks like yeah, Carr, So I think
Speaker 2: you just got AAR five hundred plates in there.
Speaker 6: Of course, I mean they're probably just white plates. They
Speaker 6: may it may not even be a five.
Speaker 2: They may may not even be dying. He tells them
Speaker 2: it's his exoskeleton, so he has to keep it on.
Speaker 2: I don't think he gets in wearing this. Oh man,
Speaker 2: I love I love the liver cake.
Speaker 3: I was really not expecting him to turn into a lobster.
Speaker 3: But apparently that's where we're at.
Speaker 6: Now, that's where we're at Yeah, you're right, given his radness.
Speaker 2: So there's one more video from his time in Austin
Speaker 2: before we'll get back to the Liver King compound and
Speaker 2: see the liver Queen a little little oh no that
Speaker 2: that person is.
Speaker 6: Going through like the mental health equipment of the Q
Speaker 6: course right now, watching their one source of income.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2: I have to hope if you're the liver queen, you
Speaker 2: have pretty good like insurance for the liver King.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you hope.
Speaker 6: So I don't know how long they've been living monarch together,
Speaker 6: whether she was with him before he went completely fucking bongers, or.
Speaker 3: I don't know how much time there was before that happened,
Speaker 3: to be honest. Was it an arranged marriage like previous monarchies.
Speaker 6: Yeah, she's actually from the Lung family, but they had
Speaker 6: to marry her off to forge alliance. I'm gonna have
Speaker 6: to demand that we watch is Lk's back vulnerable if
Speaker 6: he only stands to strike, because I need to see that.
Speaker 2: There's a lot of Liver King fighting videos, and okay,
Speaker 2: none of them are are all that impressive.
Speaker 6: So one way, he fights like a horse sized duck
Speaker 6: or one hundred duck sized horses.
Speaker 2: There's a video where he goes hunting with his kid
Speaker 2: and he's talking about how it's like a prival experience.
Speaker 2: But all that happens is he pays a guy to
Speaker 2: take him into the woods. It's like forty feet away
Speaker 2: from a deer, and then they just shoot the deer
Speaker 2: outside where his Native American guy is like, okay, you
Speaker 2: can shoot it now.
Speaker 3: It's really funny. It's pretty good. Okay what.
Speaker 2: He's just cram walking like a gorilla down like the
Speaker 2: hull of his hotel.
Speaker 3: It's beautiful stuff. It's good.
Speaker 4: Somebody.
Speaker 2: Now he's doing fake martial ice booths and it comes
Speaker 2: out of the duor straight.
Speaker 11: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's just turned his girl and crab walk that
Speaker 2: he does is like fist pump. He has like a
Speaker 2: little chant that he makes people say, lock it down.
Speaker 2: He pays to me wearing an ankle monitor. Yeah, he
Speaker 2: is wearing an ankle monitor. Yes, that's my favorite part
Speaker 2: of the video. He does have to wear an ankle monitor.
Speaker 3: Now someone's coming.
Speaker 6: To it's not an ancestral ankle monitor.
Speaker 3: That is not a normal crowd walk. I don't know
Speaker 3: how to describe what that is. It genuinely defies description.
Speaker 3: It is the weird, weird forms a bush. I've ever
Speaker 3: seen the cube of undertake imagine if Rita was drunk.
Speaker 3: So we're gonna go back.
Speaker 2: To ads real quick, and then when we come back,
Speaker 2: we're going to finally see the Liver Queen and him
Speaker 2: back in his compound talking to his fellow friends about
Speaker 2: how how things are really good, how he wanted to
Speaker 2: get arrested for threatening Joe Rogan, how it's blessing to
Speaker 2: have a restraining order against him and to not be
Speaker 2: able to be in possession of his guns anymore. And
Speaker 2: we're back, and I'm gonna play that video for you
Speaker 2: guys once again. So he is standing in the yard
Speaker 2: of the Liver King compound. His wife is drinking a
Speaker 2: glass of wine next to him, and Appointed this kind
Speaker 2: of reluctantly takes his hand. They are listening to a
Speaker 2: like I think it's a I think you'd call it
Speaker 2: a trance remix of Mike Posner's I Took a Bill
Speaker 2: in a Pisa, So I don't know what it's just
Speaker 2: blasting over the yard. As he talks, he rants about
Speaker 2: his arrest.
Speaker 5: There's zero race, there's zero I really understand. I really
Speaker 5: get it, really and I'm not asking for it. I
Speaker 5: don't need it. But it's it's hard.
Speaker 10: It's the hardest parts over, the hardest parts over, that's great,
Speaker 10: that's really good.
Speaker 2: The hardest parts over getting arrested. His wife really doesn't
Speaker 2: want to take his hand.
Speaker 5: He has a.
Speaker 6: Caffea draped around his shoulders, a tactical caffa.
Speaker 2: He's where a tactical cafea. He loves his tactical kafea. Okay,
Speaker 2: it's good stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's he's just doing he's just doing really really healthy.
Speaker 8: Yeah.
Speaker 6: He seems to have like added mag pouches for this one,
Speaker 6: which he suggests that he removed them his trip to
Speaker 6: the capital.
Speaker 3: He to remove the mag pouches to go to the capitol.
Speaker 6: So he already throwed it through And so I bet
Speaker 6: I could wear it if I take the mag pouches off.
Speaker 3: Yeahinating fish, it's incredible fish.
Speaker 6: It looks like he's taken so many steroids and he
Speaker 6: is literally inflated and they are trying to get out.
Speaker 12: Yeah.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So in this last video that we're going to play,
Speaker 2: he's sitting on a throne. He's got a throat, he
Speaker 2: talks about how he thinks the throne is silly now
Speaker 2: and how he wouldn't have liked past liver King, and
Speaker 2: how people talk about how he's lost it and he
Speaker 2: thinks that's a compliment because I think he's making a
Speaker 2: point about ego death here, but it's not very coherent.
Speaker 2: So here's the liver King talking about how it's good
Speaker 2: to lose your mind.
Speaker 9: Walking through the foyer and I saw these old thrones
Speaker 9: and I just kind of laughed, and I was like,
Speaker 9: oh god, you know, kind of a little bit embarrassed.
Speaker 9: And I thought, oh, you know what, I don't think
Speaker 9: I made a video today. I said I was going to,
Speaker 9: so I better, I better deliver on it. But it
Speaker 9: was Sunday, Family Day, God's Day, Capital g Day, and
Speaker 9: we did that then, Man, it was that was good.
Speaker 9: And so I'm walking by this one, this throne, old throne,
Speaker 9: and I thought.
Speaker 8: Buffalo is real.
Speaker 9: That's that's legit. That's gonna stay. But I thought, oh
Speaker 9: my god, you know the predecessor me, I would have
Speaker 9: hated me too. I read some comments today or yesterday,
Speaker 9: and I saw he's losing it a lot. And this
Speaker 9: is says it on my desk, lose yourself.
Speaker 8: That is like when you actually lose yourself though, and
Speaker 8: you lose the ego, you can't really tell people, you know,
Speaker 8: because then it's like, hey, yeah, I actually shed my
Speaker 8: ego and now I'm better.
Speaker 5: You know, that's the ego talking.
Speaker 8: So if other people are seeing it, whoa thank you,
Speaker 8: thank you, or I can also go back to the egomaniac.
Speaker 2: So here's the thing, folks, the new DSM that's coming out,
Speaker 2: I think they're going to increase the age at which
Speaker 2: you could be diagnosed as a schizophrenic for the male
Speaker 2: up to like forty or something like that.
Speaker 3: And boy, howdy, no, real, truly like real Ross putin
Speaker 3: vibes from this one. He's got like a hood on.
Speaker 2: He really is obsessed with because he's his hair. He's
Speaker 2: got less and less of it every day.
Speaker 6: That'll happen if you put the testosterone, would you're taking
Speaker 6: nothing but pure test yes?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Yeah, when you pour a testosterone on your Syrian the morning.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So anyway, that's that's my update for everyone on the
Speaker 2: liver King. He's doing well. I'll be shocked if he's
Speaker 2: alive at a year.
Speaker 6: What a fantastic man.
Speaker 2: He's got kids, but he also makes the meat raw testicle,
Speaker 2: so I don't know if they're going to be worse off.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that he's probably one of
Speaker 6: those rare station intervene moments.
Speaker 3: Yeah, something should have something should be done here.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah it is. It doesn't seem like a healthy guy.
Speaker 6: I know, if you should eat just organ meats.
Speaker 3: No, Apparently, like eating a diet that is entirely consists
Speaker 3: of raw organs, random pharmaceuticals and gear makes you like
Speaker 3: talk exactly the same as like a nineteen year old
Speaker 3: art student. Yeah, like another enough kennemine to like traquilize
Speaker 3: a horse. These are apparently equivalent states of being.
Speaker 5: This is what I've learned from this. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think kenymine is one possible explanation because some
Speaker 2: of his some of his behavior is definitely like ketamine goaded.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But I also think there's a good chance that this
Speaker 2: is just like he's been abusing drugs for such a
Speaker 2: long period of time that he's just suffering permanent brain
Speaker 2: damage now at this point, right like he's he's not
Speaker 2: able to like he's not very cogent anymore. And I
Speaker 2: don't know, I feel like the people who are still
Speaker 2: around him are largely taking advantage of him for money,
Speaker 2: Like he was good at making money at one point,
Speaker 2: they're still cash flooding in and that's that's kind of
Speaker 2: what's happening here. But on the other hand, like this
Speaker 2: is this guy made his own hell, he made his
Speaker 2: own bed. He's getting exactly what he wants. Yeah, he
Speaker 2: liked people about the health, which is a pretty fucked
Speaker 2: up thing to do. Like, yeah, I didn't have a
Speaker 2: lot of sympathy for the living King. No, I don't
Speaker 2: have a lot of sympathy for the liver King anyway,
Speaker 2: any questions about the Liver King before we roll out?
Speaker 6: I mean so many, Robert, more than you can ever imagine.
Speaker 3: But okay, on on a scale of like point oh
Speaker 3: one to one, Godafi, how or is golden rs?
Speaker 2: I mean they're golden ars. Like they're fine, like they are,
Speaker 2: like they're definitely like dictator great ars.
Speaker 3: I'll give them that.
Speaker 2: Like if if you if you saw that and like
Speaker 2: some fucking junta leader, you know, carrying it around and
Speaker 2: screaming about executing his enemies, you'd be like, yeah, that
Speaker 2: fits that said, I do think if you are going
Speaker 2: to be carrying a gold plated weapon. An AR is
Speaker 2: just inherently less impressive than an AK forty seven, like
Speaker 2: a golden a golden a AK forty seven says something
Speaker 2: about you, and a golden AR just says that you
Speaker 2: have like fifteen thousand dollars to light on fire for
Speaker 2: no good reason, whereas a gold plate at AK forty
Speaker 2: seven says you've probably mixed cocaine and gunpowder, you know. Yeah, well, yeah,
Speaker 2: that's some advice for LIVI king for free. Yeah, you
Speaker 2: have to you have to be sending positive messages out
Speaker 2: into the world with your apparel, exactly, exactly.
Speaker 6: Yeah's just why I'm wearing the duppiest wolf. You guys
Speaker 6: have to just find the fucking wolf. Like the indignity
Speaker 6: of it being killed is not it's final indignity, as
Speaker 6: it turns out.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, that's that's as bad as it can go
Speaker 3: for a wolf.
Speaker 6: Yeah, pretty much. You go from the top of the
Speaker 6: food chain to this guy's bolding hu crania. Yeah, I know,
Speaker 6: have a fucking vegetable everyone, That's what I have for you.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I have have vegetables. Eat more vegetables. We haven't
Speaker 3: talked about how he squawks.
Speaker 6: He doesn't squat with the body, squats with the ragh.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Now we forgot to mention that that is very funny.
Speaker 6: Yeah, God, everyone go on this. It's a terrible fucking
Speaker 6: time to be I've gone into Instagram.
Speaker 3: It's funny. Yeah, it's really funny.
Speaker 2: Have some fun, enjoy the liver Kings Instagram while he's
Speaker 2: still alive for another like four to six months.
Speaker 3: I'm not taking any pleasure in this. I don't want
Speaker 3: him to die.
Speaker 2: I'm just looking at a man and being like, well,
Speaker 2: that's not gonna last much longer.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: It is like watching a car without breaks. Yeah, traveling
Speaker 6: down hill.
Speaker 3: Let's speed. Yeah, all right, everyone, have a good night.
Speaker 5: Trim.
Speaker 13: This is it could Happen here Executive Disorder, our weekly
Speaker 13: newscast covering what's happening in the White House, the crumbling world,
Speaker 13: and what it means for you. I'm Garson Davis. Today
Speaker 13: I am joined by Mia Wong, James Stout, and later
Speaker 13: a special report by Robert Evans. This episode, we are
Speaker 13: covering the week of June twenty fifth to July second.
Speaker 13: It is the end of Pride month. It was Canada Day.
Speaker 13: Fourth of July is coming up. I will say no
Speaker 13: one in our team wished me a happy Canada Day,
Speaker 13: not that I noticed.
Speaker 3: That's correct. I hate the Trump administration because I can't
Speaker 3: do my death the Canada jokes anymore.
Speaker 13: It sucks terrible Canada. Welcome to the Resistance. I'm gonna
Speaker 13: start with a brief news round up because there's been
Speaker 13: so many news stories this past week that we cannot
Speaker 13: do big sections on all of them. We already have
Speaker 13: three main stories, but there's some mini stories that I
Speaker 13: didn't want to get forgotten. I'm gonna start by talking
Speaker 13: about the Supreme Court, which has now limited the ability
Speaker 13: of lower court judges to use nationwide injunctions. So now
Speaker 13: Trump's order to end a birthright citizenship can be enforced,
Speaker 13: if even temporarily, for those who are not affiliated with
Speaker 13: the actual court cases on the constitutionality of ending birthright citizenship.
Speaker 13: What this means on a broader scale is that Trump's
Speaker 13: very obviously illegal executive orders can now be enforced in
Speaker 13: a lot of states because the injunctions that judges are
Speaker 13: putting on only apply to the people in those specific cases,
Speaker 13: so enforcement of the orders can start before the final
Speaker 13: order on if it's legal or not gets gets issued.
Speaker 13: So this is really bad because it will cause some intense,
Speaker 13: if temporary, like short term headaches for many people who's
Speaker 13: now citizenship is in a big question mark. But this
Speaker 13: also affects many other cases regarding judge's ability to actually
Speaker 13: issue injunctions that affect things across the whole country.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is some sort of like weird hack shit
Speaker 3: you can do where like there's been some stuff the
Speaker 3: judges have been trying to do and to be like
Speaker 3: everyone in the country is a plaintive or whatever the fuck. Yeah,
Speaker 3: and I don't know how long that's gonna hold up,
Speaker 3: and and like the fuck thing about this is again
Speaker 3: it's just like what this means is shroup administration can
Speaker 3: kind of do whatever the fuck they want and it's
Speaker 3: just legal until this free court like looks at it,
Speaker 3: and that's completely unhinged.
Speaker 13: Yeah, Agreediously, illegal orders can now be enforced for a
Speaker 13: period of months to years, as the court cases eventually
Speaker 13: will churn their way up to the Supreme Court.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and this is a particularly egregious one too, because
Speaker 3: the birthday citizenship is so obviously it's just literally in
Speaker 3: the constitution. It's literally the Constitution just says, if you're
Speaker 3: born here, you're a citizen.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well it says that section of the Amendment that
Speaker 6: is under question is subject to the authority thereof which
Speaker 6: is what is being litigated here. There is a section
Speaker 6: there that I guess is perceived by some people to
Speaker 6: be debateable. It doesn't seem very debatable to me, right, No,
Speaker 6: it's completely insane. It's like unhinged shit. Like it's like,
Speaker 6: it's like stuff you wouldn't have seen even from like
Speaker 6: unhinged conservative legal cranks fifteen years ago. You absolutely would
Speaker 6: have seen this particular case.
Speaker 3: Unfortunately, well I guess the absolute most unhinged baby, but
Speaker 3: like you wouldn't have seen even like, I don't know,
Speaker 3: the normal person on Fox News kind of unhinged arguing
Speaker 3: this even like fifteen years ago.
Speaker 6: And now this was like on the blogs that have,
Speaker 6: you know, the GeoCities era web design.
Speaker 5: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 13: Trying to restrict and quantify citizenship is going to be
Speaker 13: probably the main theme of this episode, as we will
Speaker 13: get to in the future, and if even temporarily, trying
Speaker 13: to strip the citizenship of already thousands, one hundred thousands
Speaker 13: of people who are who live in this country is
Speaker 13: incredibly worrying considering the massive amount of increased funding that
Speaker 13: ICE is about to receive. Speaking of ICE, second little
Speaker 13: mini story in explosive ICE raid in Huntington Park, California. Yeah,
Speaker 13: or attack and ICE agents used explosives to breach and
Speaker 13: raid the home of US citizens. A drone was sent
Speaker 13: into the home after explosives shattered the windows, sending glass
Speaker 13: yards flying into the home occupied by a mother and
Speaker 13: two young children. The target of the raid was not
Speaker 13: in the home. Border Patrol was looking for a man
Speaker 13: that got into a car accident during a previous ICE raid,
Speaker 13: who was questioned at the scene and was allowed to leave.
Speaker 13: But now the DHS alleges the man was obstructing the
Speaker 13: actions of ICE when he rammed his car into a
Speaker 13: vehicle carrying CBP agents, though witnesses at the scene say
Speaker 13: that the FEDS break checked, leading to a rear ending.
Speaker 13: The man turned himself in on Friday after the raid.
Speaker 13: So what actually happened here is that ICE caused a
Speaker 13: car accident and in response, they blew up the home
Speaker 13: of US citizens.
Speaker 6: Yeah, well, they dynamically breached, Yeah, at home with a
Speaker 6: little child in right, like you see in the video.
Speaker 13: Two young kids. I think, like a six year old
Speaker 13: and a two year old.
Speaker 6: Yeah, you see them presumably the mother of the two mother, Yeah,
Speaker 6: with the child in her arms leaving.
Speaker 13: They sent a fucking drone in there. They're acting the
Speaker 13: house full of like active combatants. You have like dozens
Speaker 13: dozens of people in military fatigues raiding this home.
Speaker 6: Yeah, except that they didn't do it in such a
Speaker 6: fashion as you would if you if you were actually worried, right,
Speaker 6: Like they didn't. There wasn't a flashbang, right that they breached,
Speaker 6: stood around for a while, sent a drone in. They
Speaker 6: didn't dynamically breach in a dynamic way right like they
Speaker 6: would if they were expecting a real threat.
Speaker 3: No, they just wanted to blow up this person's fucking
Speaker 3: house because they were pissed off that they that that
Speaker 3: they caused a car accident. Yes, these are These are
Speaker 3: the tiniest fucking baby secret police I have ever seen
Speaker 3: in my entire goddamn life. Fucking Christ.
Speaker 13: It runs me of that one like picture of like
Speaker 13: a police raid in the nineties that conservatives used to
Speaker 13: use in terms of like like the government's taking over
Speaker 13: of this, of this of this, like you know, retro
Speaker 13: nineties swat cop like pointing a gun at like a family.
Speaker 13: It's like hiding in like a closet. And the Elian
Speaker 13: Gonzales ray, do you mean yeah? And how much this
Speaker 13: was used as like fear of like federal overreach, like
Speaker 13: used by conservatives and now this is like their entire
Speaker 13: platform is raiding the home of US citizens.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's pretty worth noting.
Speaker 6: I believe Huntington part that mayor has directed their police
Speaker 6: to enforce the California law which requires law enforcement offices
Speaker 6: to identify themselves.
Speaker 11: Right.
Speaker 6: It's been very common to the ICE agents refuse to
Speaker 6: identify themselves and wear masks, right, And I believe this
Speaker 6: was passed by their count and then their mayor, whose
Speaker 6: name is Arturo Flores, released statement calling the ICE abductions
Speaker 6: mass abductions and directing his police to intervene if what
Speaker 6: was happening was unlawful or unauthorized. And I can't help
Speaker 6: but think that that is why we saw this happen here, right,
Speaker 6: I think it may not be so m sicar crash
Speaker 6: as a chance to do something in this city, which
Speaker 6: has yeah, been one of the very few that has
Speaker 6: taken meaningful action to prevent.
Speaker 13: This absolutely because people don't like ice. There's new ice
Speaker 13: approval ratings that came out by Quinnipiac on a June
Speaker 13: twenty fourth, twenty five net approval of ice negative seventeen percent,
Speaker 13: Democrats negative eighty Independence negative thirty two. This is this
Speaker 13: centrist position, independence negative thirty two percent.
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, you've got like bushadmin staff as saying abolish eyes.
Speaker 6: It's a win for me.
Speaker 13: Oh yeah, GOP is up sixty but that's it. This
Speaker 13: is like the centrist position now. And also sixty percent
Speaker 13: is nearly just half the GOP. Like, people don't like ice.
Speaker 13: The majority of people in this country don't like ice
Speaker 13: negative seventeen percent. Yeah, candidates that need to run on
Speaker 13: abolishing ice. This is like one of the most important
Speaker 13: issues facing the country right now, and they are wildly unpopular,
Speaker 13: including for independence. For this is this set abolishing ice
Speaker 13: should be the centrist position.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well but this but this is this is sort
Speaker 3: of the problem, right, which is that the Democrats did this, like, well,
Speaker 3: a least some of them, at least AOC did so
Speaker 3: some of that. A Democratic wave ran on that in
Speaker 3: twenty eighteen, and then the Democrats were just like each
Speaker 3: shit we're never going to do that again. And like
Speaker 3: AOC never fucking mentioned it again. Like they all came
Speaker 3: into power and we're like, Okay, we got to deal
Speaker 3: with super border crackdown. Shit. It's like they need to
Speaker 3: they fucking need to do this.
Speaker 13: Yeah, but people should bring it back. I think that
Speaker 13: the data here is in support. Yeah, and like ICE
Speaker 13: is younger than I am. ICE is younger than all
Speaker 13: of us, Like yeah, ICE is a is a fucking
Speaker 13: fake agency.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and DHS is younger than most of us.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 13: I like the ICE as an agency should be like
Speaker 13: disappear and we should like try to be forgiven for
Speaker 13: it over the course of hundreds of years.
Speaker 6: Like yeah, Yeah, people want to learn more about the
Speaker 6: history of DHS. I did a series about title forty
Speaker 6: two where I talk about it a whole lot.
Speaker 13: Speaking of agencies that shouldn't exist. The BBC cut the
Speaker 13: feed of the glass Frey Music Festival during Kneecap's performance
Speaker 13: to block pro Palestinian messaging, but they failed to stop
Speaker 13: Bob Villain from leading a death to the idf chant.
Speaker 3: Bob Dylan.
Speaker 13: Villain what.
Speaker 3: Bob Dylan based on Villain.
Speaker 13: They are a punk rap group and they were leading
Speaker 13: death to the IDF chance broadcast live on the stage.
Speaker 13: Both of these music groups, Kneecap and Bob Villain, are
Speaker 13: now an investigation by the British police from their political
Speaker 13: comments at this music festival, and the US State Department
Speaker 13: has revoked Bob Villain's work visa ahead of an upcoming
Speaker 13: US tour as punishment for criticizing the military of a
Speaker 13: foreign country. The Party of Free Speed each strikes once again.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I do want to say that, like as as
Speaker 6: a consumer of Glastonbrie music festival content, right, I guess
Speaker 6: as a British process Yeah, and at the target like
Speaker 6: age demographic, I guess what this has overshadowed is the
Speaker 6: massive amount of support for the Palestinian cause that you saw. Like,
Speaker 6: go watch a glaston Bree video and you will not
Speaker 6: not see Palestinian flagged in the crowd most of them.
Speaker 6: You will hear the artists acknowledging that there is a
Speaker 6: genocide in Palestine.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 6: I don't know if anyone at the BBC is familiar
Speaker 6: with Bob Villain, Like, I'm sure they've played their music,
Speaker 6: but whoever made the choice to stream them and not
Speaker 6: stream Kneecap clearly had not done like a fucking like
Speaker 6: a Wikipedia level research, because you know what you're getting
Speaker 6: into with these guys, Like both the people in the
Speaker 6: band are called Bobby Villain, right, No, that's sirs, staging
Speaker 6: that they use in order to have a little bit
Speaker 6: of privacy. But there's an interview with him a while
Speaker 6: ago where he's like, Yeah, I just like pisching people
Speaker 6: off because it's the only thing that brings me joy
Speaker 6: in this miserable fucking country.
Speaker 8: Ah. Incredible.
Speaker 6: Yeah, they've been very aspoken about a large number of
Speaker 6: things that the.
Speaker 3: British police have been going completely unhinged with this too.
Speaker 3: The Parliament's currently I don't know what the result. I
Speaker 3: think they may have voted to do it already. They've
Speaker 3: been trying to vote to make it illegal for like
Speaker 3: Palestinian action to exist after they did it after they
Speaker 3: did a pretty big action at a Britis Din action year. Yeah,
Speaker 3: after Parson Action did a pretty big like action at
Speaker 3: a like fucking British arms manufacturer that's also Israel. So
Speaker 3: they're going so unhinged on all of this shit.
Speaker 13: And they've been going after Kneecap for years. There's multiple
Speaker 13: investigations into Kneecap. Now you should check out Neecaps new movie.
Speaker 13: It's pretty good for our first main story. I guess
Speaker 13: I'll throw to James to discuss denaturalization.
Speaker 6: Yeah so yeah, a less exciting than Glassery music festival.
Speaker 6: So the naturalization if you're not familiar, rate the movement
Speaker 6: of US citizenship from people who became US citizeners at
Speaker 6: some point in their life. The DOJ has issued instructions
Speaker 6: to its Civil Division employees to pursue denaturalization proceedings against
Speaker 6: naturalized US citizens quote in all cases permitted by law
Speaker 6: and supported by the evidence.
Speaker 3: It goes on to lists some categories.
Speaker 6: These include some of the things you might expect, including
Speaker 6: being in access to terrorism and organized crime, people who
Speaker 6: engaged in war crimes, people who committed violent crimes or
Speaker 6: failed to disclose felonies on their application for naturalization. But
Speaker 6: they also include fraud both against private individuals and against Medicaid, Medicare,
Speaker 6: and the pay Check Protection Plan maybe program, the PPP
Speaker 6: COVID era government bailout right. The last one, however, is
Speaker 6: the most concerning. Quote any cases referred to the Civil
Speaker 6: Division that the Division considers officially important to pursue.
Speaker 13: Any cases that area found to be sufficient sufficiently important.
Speaker 6: Just people aren't familiar rates. Civil and criminal law are distinct. Right,
Speaker 6: civil law has a lower burden of proof and crucially,
Speaker 6: the accused person is not entitled to legal representation. In addition,
Speaker 6: this could have trickle down effects. Right, children of naturalized
Speaker 6: citizens are also citizens, so their citizenship derives from their
Speaker 6: parent citizenship. So it's possible that children who are not
Speaker 6: even accused of doing anything wrong could be the natural
Speaker 6: or not naturalized, de citizenized and left stateless. Right, many
Speaker 6: of these children will not be dual nationals. This is
Speaker 6: another big problem with like ending birthright citizenship. Yeah, so
Speaker 6: it will lead people so like this is something that
Speaker 6: I do feel like, much like I feel like in
Speaker 6: the UK people should have pushed back against the government
Speaker 6: prosecuting people for saying shit that was fucking hateful and
Speaker 6: disgusting about migrants when there was a stabbing attack last year.
Speaker 6: I still feel people should have pushed back because it's
Speaker 6: not a good situation when the government gets to decide
Speaker 6: what you can and can't think. Likewise, in this instance,
Speaker 6: nations in the global North have been leaving people who
Speaker 6: fought for the or people who are accused of fighting
Speaker 6: for the Islamic state or joining the Islamic state. Stateless
Speaker 6: for a long time, and I think that was a
Speaker 6: bad precedent and they were able to As we'll get
Speaker 6: into they will always use an odious person as the
Speaker 6: first example, right to set the precedent and then go
Speaker 6: from there.
Speaker 5: Yep.
Speaker 6: So in the odious person example in this case is
Speaker 6: someone called Elliott Duke. They have been denaturalized. Duke was
Speaker 6: a UK citizen served in the United States military. While
Speaker 6: serving in Germany, they received and distributed child sex abuse material,
Speaker 6: according to the DOJ. They were later contacted by the
Speaker 6: FBI about this and prosecuted. The DOJ stated that their
Speaker 6: case was identified as part of Operation Prison Lookout, which
Speaker 6: aims to identify sex offenders who have naturalized. I haven't
Speaker 6: seen any reporting on Prison Lookout. It's in the press release,
Speaker 6: but I think maybe people don't read to the bottom.
Speaker 6: But it appears that the DOJ this case has been
Speaker 6: going on for months. The Duke case, right, and so
Speaker 6: the DOJ as early as February this year was looking
Speaker 6: through prosecution records to find and find naturalized citizens who
Speaker 6: have been convicted of sex crimes. Duke was not able
Speaker 6: to get an attorney to represent them. They also it
Speaker 6: appears to renounce a UK citizenship, and it's not very
Speaker 6: clear what happens now, right, like in another stateless person cases,
Speaker 6: where does this person go? Denaturalization has been used before,
Speaker 6: right that The time when the United States did the
Speaker 6: most denaturalization was during the Second Red Scare second rates
Speaker 6: gay kay and McCarthyism.
Speaker 13: Right, and oh boy, are they trying to bring it back.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yep, twenty thousand cases a year in the McCarthy era.
Speaker 6: For references, stats I could find suggest about twenty five
Speaker 6: million naturalized citizens in the United States both Obama. Obama
Speaker 6: had something called Operation Janus identified people who were eligible
Speaker 6: for denaturalization, and Trump one also at higher rates of denaturalization,
Speaker 6: but nothing on this McCarthy eras scale. Right, people will
Speaker 6: be familiar with the naturalization also before that, that happened.
Speaker 3: To Emma Goldman for example.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 13: One other story from this week that's kind of related
Speaker 13: is it was announced that whol to check the citizenship
Speaker 13: status of all Americans. This is the first time we've
Speaker 13: had a centralized tool like this, or we've attempted to
Speaker 13: the US has for a while has resisted creating like
Speaker 13: a dossier of like official citizens because this is like
Speaker 13: a kind of problematic thing to have. There's a lot
Speaker 13: of issues with this concept. Actually verifying that this list
Speaker 13: is accurate is very tricky. You have to add people
Speaker 13: who have been naturalized how they've been naturalized. There's other
Speaker 13: people who acquire citizenship through other means than the standard
Speaker 13: like naturalization process, like including like through through your parents.
Speaker 13: There's the Child Citizenship Act of two thousand where if
Speaker 13: one of your parents is a US citizen and you
Speaker 13: are not a US citizen, but you live with your
Speaker 13: US citizen parent while being a legal permanent resident, that
Speaker 13: then gives you automatic citizenship. But you don't need to
Speaker 13: apply for the naturalization process. So this is like a
Speaker 13: really weird thing to prove. You have to apply for
Speaker 13: a certificate or apply for a passport as proof of citizenship.
Speaker 13: How would those cases be added to this list? This
Speaker 13: is an incredibly problematic thing to have, and it's going
Speaker 13: to be used mainly just to hunt people down and
Speaker 13: try to deport them.
Speaker 6: Yeah, massive information security risk.
Speaker 13: It's really problematic and tied in with these other denaturalization programs.
Speaker 13: It's a really worrying sign of where things are going
Speaker 13: to be going.
Speaker 6: Yeah, talking of worrying signs, this is a worrying sign
Speaker 6: that we have to pivot to advertisements.
Speaker 13: All right, we are back, James. You do have one
Speaker 13: piece of good news in the immigration front, Well, I
Speaker 13: do you, Garson. I've gotta hate you some bad news first, buddy.
Speaker 13: That's the way this show works.
Speaker 6: That's how we do it here. Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 3: It can happen here.
Speaker 6: Special Immigrant Defenders Law Center i llegal nonprofit says one
Speaker 6: of their clients, Julie Calderon, was abducted by armed men
Speaker 6: in Los Angeles and taken to Santy Cedro. People are
Speaker 6: not familiar. Santit Caedro is the border that you might
Speaker 6: call San Diego border, right, the town that actually has
Speaker 6: the physical excess of Tijuana. Santi Suedro. The city of
Speaker 6: San Diego also has some land down there. She was
Speaker 6: told at Santi Sudro that she was to sign voluntary
Speaker 6: deportation papers. She very reasonably refused to ask to see
Speaker 6: a Laura and a judge, and at this point she
Speaker 6: was taken and returned to the armed men. And it's
Speaker 6: now being detained in a warehouse with no beds, blankets,
Speaker 6: or food. She was able to make a call to
Speaker 6: her family from a blocked number. She described the people
Speaker 6: as bounty hunters, and at this point she said she
Speaker 6: has not seen any uniformed offices in her detention right.
Speaker 6: She's being detained in an area where men and women
Speaker 6: are mixed, which is not usual in border patrol attention,
Speaker 6: and according to Deaf. According to im Deaf, she has
Speaker 6: not been able to shower and the only water source
Speaker 6: is a sink. The Mexican Consulate has been informed and
Speaker 6: thinks that she might now be in the O Ti
Speaker 6: Meca Dettention Center, but because she's not showing up on
Speaker 6: the ice detainee locator, they don't know that for sure,
Speaker 6: and they are therefore still a little bit unclear on
Speaker 6: where this lady has gone. I have seen reports of
Speaker 6: bounty hunters, many of you have sent them to me.
Speaker 6: I have seen none that I find to be credible
Speaker 6: before this. IM Deaf are an established group. They are
Speaker 6: not people who I've found to be prone to making
Speaker 6: things up or exaggerating like I trust.
Speaker 3: Them as a source. And this is deeply, deeply worrying.
Speaker 6: I don't know why it's not getting more coverage other
Speaker 6: than most people on the migration and border beat perhaps
Speaker 6: don't speak Spanish or have actually just turned up on
Speaker 6: this beat a few weeks ago and have have no
Speaker 6: notion of like who the actors and these groups are,
Speaker 6: and they tend to go off government press releases. This
Speaker 6: is like shit that we haven't seen in the United
Speaker 6: States since I know, the Fugitive Slave Act.
Speaker 3: Like it's appalling. Yeah, this is like the most just actual,
Speaker 3: straight up nineteen thirty is Nazi shit that we've seen
Speaker 3: from them.
Speaker 6: Like, yes, it's hideous, Yeah, it's happening here in San Diego,
Speaker 6: but it's also of course like as Californian as we
Speaker 6: are entering this time with the most cowardly and like
Speaker 6: pathetic governor that we've had in a long time, like
Speaker 6: Arnolds Tortenego is a Republican, But I bad you'd have
Speaker 6: handled this better than Nuisance, who is just a slime ball.
Speaker 3: Yeah, but the fact that Newsom isn't like like, if
Speaker 3: this was happening in fucking Illinois, Pritscrew would have swat
Speaker 3: teams like these, these these people would be like dead
Speaker 3: right now, but like this is this is completely fucking unhinged.
Speaker 13: Yeah, no, this is the fuck. Yeah, James, I was,
Speaker 13: I was muster good news after the break.
Speaker 3: You're right, Garrison and I do have some lucky you.
Speaker 6: Finally, a judge has ordered that Trump's sweeping asylum ban
Speaker 6: exceeds his authority as president and granted broad class protection.
Speaker 6: So we're going to see, like literally this happened maybe
Speaker 6: thirty minutes before before we started recording. I'm going to
Speaker 6: read over the court documents I've linked them in the
Speaker 6: notes here until what this means. But it suggests that
Speaker 6: Trump's authority under the Immigration Naturalization Act doesn't allow him
Speaker 6: to just say we're not doing asylum anymore, and therefore
Speaker 6: that could mean that it's possible for people to once
Speaker 6: again apply for asylum in the United States. I don't
Speaker 6: know how that will look. The Biden administration had great
Speaker 6: success dating asylum through CBP one right and making it
Speaker 6: practically impossible for many people, people who have darker skin,
Speaker 6: people who don't have fancy as cell phone, people don't
Speaker 6: have access to Wi Fi et cetera, et cetera, to
Speaker 6: apply for asylum. That was a Biden administration. The people
Speaker 6: who we're supposed to think of good they were terrible
Speaker 6: for migrants, but they did they got that, they got
Speaker 6: that through, right. So what we'll see from the Trump administration,
Speaker 6: I don't imagine we will see a return to like
Speaker 6: regular title light asylum processing as we saw like the
Speaker 6: last time we saw it, I guess within the Obama area,
Speaker 6: and that was pretty bad.
Speaker 3: So yeah, I don't know what we'll see.
Speaker 13: Yeah, all right, now I'm going to throw two Robert
Speaker 13: Evans for a special report on the Diddy trial.
Speaker 2: Hey, everybody, Robert here. I guess I'm a resident p
Speaker 2: Didy expert because I did the Bastards episodes on him.
Speaker 2: Just felt like it was appropriate to give y'all a
Speaker 2: brief update. So on the day that we record this,
Speaker 2: which is Wednesday, the second of July, Sean Diddy Combs
Speaker 2: was found guilty on two of the five charges in
Speaker 2: his trial. He was being charged with racketeering, conspiracy and
Speaker 2: sex trafficking, and he was not found guilty of racketeering,
Speaker 2: conspiracy or of both sex trafficking accounts, each of which
Speaker 2: carried fifty near mandatory minimums, but he was found guilty
Speaker 2: on two counts of transportation to engage in prostitution. These
Speaker 2: were for one for a woman who was pudent into Jane,
Speaker 2: and one for his former partner, Cassie Ventura. So you know,
Speaker 2: this is not what people who understand the case had
Speaker 2: hoped entirely, right, Like, this is not ideal, It's not nothing,
Speaker 2: but it's not ideal.
Speaker 3: Now, if you can't like why did this happen? Right?
Speaker 2: Why didn't he get convicted on these higher charges he
Speaker 2: was absolutely guilty of? And it's because the prosecutors focked up, Right,
Speaker 2: there were a number of different felony charges they could
Speaker 2: have gone after him for that were less difficult to
Speaker 2: prove than racketeering and sex trafficking and did he had
Speaker 2: good lawyers?
Speaker 5: Right?
Speaker 2: And there's a lot of weirdness about, like, well, they
Speaker 2: didn't go after him for the guns and drugs that
Speaker 2: he had both at his properties, or for a number
Speaker 2: of the other things that they could have done after him.
Speaker 2: You know, this is because prosecutors have to make choices
Speaker 2: as to like what to charge someone with, and they
Speaker 2: tried for some of the harder stuff that was always
Speaker 2: going to be a little more difficult to prove. Now,
Speaker 2: the two charge he's been convicted on, he could do
Speaker 2: up to twenty years each shows up to a maximum
Speaker 2: ten year sentence, so he could get sentenced to do
Speaker 2: ten years for each. Prosecutors have said that they're looking
Speaker 2: for a four to five year prison sentence, which I
Speaker 2: think is much too light. Twenty years would be I
Speaker 2: would say, like, okay, that's that's a serious punishment.
Speaker 3: Anything over it. You know, ten years are over.
Speaker 2: I would say, that's still at least you know, we
Speaker 2: can say it's not all the things he should have
Speaker 2: been convicted on, but that's not You can't know. No
Speaker 2: one's going to spit it ten years in prison, especially
Speaker 2: at his age. He's in his mid fifties right now.
Speaker 2: But four or five years, you know, I wouldn't quite
Speaker 2: say that's a slap on the wrist, but it's not
Speaker 2: nearly what is deserved here right now. You do with
Speaker 2: federal sentences like this, tend to serve a lot more
Speaker 2: of this. This is not a hope and he'll be
Speaker 2: out in a year kind of situation. One of the
Speaker 2: things that's kind of worth noting here is that he
Speaker 2: and his team did ask for bail while he waited
Speaker 2: for because next week he's going to they're going to
Speaker 2: like set up when he's going to get sentenced. Right,
Speaker 2: So that doesn't mean he'll be sentenced next week, but
Speaker 2: they'll be scheduling as sentencing next week.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 2: The legal system moves pretty slow. And his team asked
Speaker 2: for bail. There's evidence that he had people like setting
Speaker 2: up getting extra security up around his primary home and
Speaker 2: they were kind of expecting him to be able to
Speaker 2: go home today. That's not going to happen. The judge
Speaker 2: has denied his bail. This is after one of his
Speaker 2: accusers basically said, hey, I think this guy is really dangerous.
Speaker 2: He has a history of going after his accusers. I
Speaker 2: don't feel safe with him out, you know, before sentencing,
Speaker 2: and that's maybe a good sign that maybe the judge
Speaker 2: will go further than the prosecutors. So though I don't
Speaker 2: know if that's likely. Again, I'll be like, Okay, well,
Speaker 2: at least this is serious. If he gets ten years
Speaker 2: or something like that. If it is four or five,
Speaker 2: I'm going to be pretty frustrated. But you know that's
Speaker 2: the case. This is we are talking about a billionaire
Speaker 2: going to core here, so any serious prison sentence is
Speaker 2: more than you usually would expect. And this is a
Speaker 2: guy who's been used to living with kind of impunity
Speaker 2: for a while, and if he spends years in prison,
Speaker 2: either way, it's not totally impunity. But yeah, not ideal.
Speaker 2: That's the situation as it stands right now with P Diddy.
Speaker 2: You know, we'll see again next week. They're going to
Speaker 2: schedule his sentencing, so yeah, we'll see how things shake out.
Speaker 13: Now we'll pass over to me to discuss our second
Speaker 13: main story this episode, the formerly named One Big Beautiful Bill.
Speaker 3: Oh God. So actually reading through this, I refuse to
Speaker 3: call this anything over in the genocide budget because this
Speaker 3: budget what is designed to do is a genocide and
Speaker 3: that's not an exaggeration.
Speaker 13: Well, there's multiple types of killing included in this bill,
Speaker 13: not just genocide. Yeah, the medicare cuts, I think that's true.
Speaker 13: Aren't aren't technically genocide, but they but they could lead
Speaker 13: to mass death, So we should be we should be inclusive.
Speaker 13: We should be inclusive of all the types of death.
Speaker 13: I think we'll get into the medicaid shit later. We
Speaker 13: need to start with the mass deportation. We want to
Speaker 13: do an ethnic cleansing. We want you to just simply
Speaker 13: wipe out entire people as you'll live in the US
Speaker 13: and like fucking dig depots them from this country. Right,
Speaker 13: And by we you mean the bill, not you Mia
Speaker 13: Wong or US school zone media.
Speaker 3: Yeah no, by yeah, by bye bye, We I mean
Speaker 3: the Republican Party who fucking wrote this bill?
Speaker 6: Okay, just checking.
Speaker 3: So, okay, what is actually in this So there's a
Speaker 3: very good writeup of this from the American Immigration Council
Speaker 3: and a lot of the stuff is from there. Okay.
Speaker 3: So across homeland security and government affairs, the judiciary, and
Speaker 3: the military. The version of the budget that just passed
Speaker 3: the Senate allocates one hundred and seventy billion dollars to
Speaker 3: their fucking unhinged deportation ship. This would be the third
Speaker 3: largest military budget in the world. It is thirty percent
Speaker 3: larger than the military budget of Russia, which is currently
Speaker 3: fighting an active, full scale ground war. Right. This is
Speaker 3: a genocide budget. They are trying to get one hundred
Speaker 3: and seventy billion dollars for all of their board enforcement
Speaker 3: shit because they want to do a genocide. They're trying
Speaker 3: to remove entire peoples from the United States, and to
Speaker 3: do that they need this kind of money. Yeah, so
Speaker 3: let's let's let's break down a little bit of where
Speaker 3: this money's fucking going We're gonna do a longer thing.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna do a longer episode about this thing, probably Tuesday,
Speaker 3: like everything else in this budget, but this needs to
Speaker 3: be understood. They're running forty five billion dollars specifically for
Speaker 3: immigration detention, and, as the American Immigration Council points out,
Speaker 3: that is at minimum five and a half billion more
Speaker 3: dollars per year than the entire budget of the entire
Speaker 3: federal prison system. Yeah, what the shit? That's again at minimum,
Speaker 3: that's it's like fourteen it's like fourteen and a half
Speaker 3: billion at minimum for detention, just just framgration attention. Again, significantly,
Speaker 3: like over fifty percent larger than the budget for the
Speaker 3: fucking entire federal prison system. They want to put into this.
Speaker 3: They're also giving out three point five billion dollars to
Speaker 3: state and local government spent on working with ICE. The
Speaker 3: American Immgration Council estimates this could be one hundred and
Speaker 3: twenty five thousand holding beds for people, which is and
Speaker 3: I quote, only just a bit below the current population
Speaker 3: of the entire federal prison system.
Speaker 13: They basically want to create a whole new prison system
Speaker 13: just for immigrants.
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, and again and again, and I cannot emphasize
Speaker 3: this enough. The United States has one of the largest
Speaker 3: prison systems on Earth, and they want to the the largest.
Speaker 3: I think it's I think it's technically smaller than the Chinese. Actually,
Speaker 3: let let let me actually pull the numbers up. Yeah,
Speaker 3: I think it's technically for America per capita. Yeah, it's
Speaker 3: like it's like there's like no contest. Yeah. Well, the
Speaker 3: statistics are weird because there's countries that have like a
Speaker 3: really really small number of people, sure like in terms
Speaker 3: of like large countries or major countries for major companies,
Speaker 3: not even close. Yeah, not even close. And then now
Speaker 3: obviously that's also kind of like state prisons, but like
Speaker 3: still with the far federal prison systm is still like
Speaker 3: unfathomably massive. Yeah, and they basically want to double the
Speaker 3: size of its specifically just to fucking do this, just
Speaker 3: just to do these deportations. There's thirty billion dollars in
Speaker 3: this for direct deportations and just like the higher ten
Speaker 3: thousands more ICE agents.
Speaker 13: Which Trump's also been calling for in executive orders.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there is forty eight billion dollars for building the
Speaker 3: wall and like border inflict physical border enforcement infrastructure. There's
Speaker 3: an additional five billion dollars for checkpoints and like border patrol,
Speaker 3: like facilities, not posts, and shit. There's also about fifteen
Speaker 3: billion dollars for states to do deportation.
Speaker 5: Shit.
Speaker 3: There's so much unhinged anti immigrant shit in this bill
Speaker 3: that like, again, I can't, we don't have time to
Speaker 3: get into it.
Speaker 5: Yere.
Speaker 3: This is going to be a full episode on fucking Tuesday.
Speaker 13: This is why you have people like Steven Miller trying
Speaker 13: to rally the whole party in support of this bill,
Speaker 13: which massively raises the deficit, something that Elon's been complaining
Speaker 13: about quite famously.
Speaker 3: Yeah, five trillion dollar hole in the budget. It doesn't matter.
Speaker 13: Now there's all these Republican congressmen who constantly complain about
Speaker 13: the federal debt, who are totally fine increasing the federal
Speaker 13: debt massively, people compromising their fiscal conservatism yep, in support
Speaker 13: of a bill that furthers the United States as a
Speaker 13: white supremacist penal colony. And at the end of there's
Speaker 13: the congressmen vote against it, then that will be used
Speaker 13: against them in future elections. Being flanked from further on
Speaker 13: the right with attack ads claiming that these senators failed
Speaker 13: to round up the illegals in not voting for the
Speaker 13: big beautiful budget bill.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I want to point this out, like they're
Speaker 3: not gonna stop at immigrants. I need to make this
Speaker 3: incredibly clear.
Speaker 13: Once you have this infrastructure, you have to use it.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Okay, Look like the people on the on like the
Speaker 3: furthest left of the US have talked about for a
Speaker 3: long time, but this is a country that is built
Speaker 3: on genocide, right. This is an apparatus that is designed
Speaker 3: to turn the US specifically into a machine to and again,
Speaker 3: and I need to point this out. The definition of
Speaker 3: genocide includes like like removing people from a place, right, Like,
Speaker 3: that is a genocide. If you force a bunch of
Speaker 3: people to if you fucking round them up, put them
Speaker 3: into camps, and then fucking send them somewhere else, that's
Speaker 3: a genocide. That is what they are trying to do.
Speaker 3: Like Laura Lumer has been talking today about like the
Speaker 3: numbers she was citing with sixty five million people, which
Speaker 3: is just every Latino person in the entire US. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's Latino people.
Speaker 6: That's what she's talking about.
Speaker 13: Specifically talking about how she wants to feed them to alligators,
Speaker 13: which we'll talk about later.
Speaker 6: Yes, the context of the number was feeding them to allegates.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, right, So, like Trump has been joking for
Speaker 3: a long time about how if Stephen Miller got his way,
Speaker 3: there would be like one hundred and fifteen million people
Speaker 3: in this cushion and they would all look like Stephen Miller,
Speaker 3: like that's where they're going. And that's not like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is blah blah blah. You're like, this is the
Speaker 3: infrastructure for them to be able to do this. And
Speaker 3: so like, killing this fucking bill is unbelievably important. We're
Speaker 3: going to get into more of the fucking unhinshit in here.
Speaker 3: But like they only passed it by one vote in
Speaker 3: the House last time. Yeah, and because of the way
Speaker 3: that that reconciliation works, right, if anything changes in the
Speaker 3: House version of the bill, it has to go back
Speaker 3: to the Senate, where they also only barely passed it
Speaker 3: by like buying off Susan Collins.
Speaker 13: It was a fifty to fifty split.
Speaker 6: Yeah, in this Senate. Yeah, with like Makowski voting for it,
Speaker 6: for example.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So, like you know, on the one hand, being
Speaker 3: able to pass this bill is precarious. On the other hand,
Speaker 3: if they do it. That limits the window for which
Speaker 3: we have to like make ice nonfunctional a lot because
Speaker 3: as they ramp up this capacity. It's going to take
Speaker 3: them a while to ramp up this capacity, right, even
Speaker 3: if this passes, But like they haven't had the capacity
Speaker 3: to do the genocide they've been trying to do, right,
Speaker 3: this will give it to them with this, with this
Speaker 3: amount of resources. Yeah, with the third largest military budget
Speaker 3: in the world, they can do this kind of shit,
Speaker 3: and we have to stop them before they get there.
Speaker 6: Yeah, Like this is one of those call everyone you
Speaker 6: can in Congress situations, like not always a big call
Speaker 6: your ramp person.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to get to at the end of this,
Speaker 3: like how we've actually met. We've gotten provisions killed from
Speaker 3: this bill already. We're going to get to that later.
Speaker 3: We also need to talk about the Medicaid shit, because Garrison,
Speaker 3: you were saying, Oh, I don't think this can be
Speaker 3: considered the genocide, but it's so killing. I actually disagree
Speaker 3: with that, because, Okay, let's explain what's going on with Medicaid.
Speaker 3: They want to do a brillion dollars of cuts. I
Speaker 3: think it's like just slightly under a trillion or maybe
Speaker 3: it's actually a trillion dollars of cuts over the next
Speaker 3: ten years to Medicaid. They want to put an eighty
Speaker 3: hour a month work requirement from Medicaid and food stamps. Now,
Speaker 3: if you are disabled, right, this is just like a
Speaker 3: fuck you die proposal because there are a lot of
Speaker 3: people who fucking can't work eighty hours in a month,
Speaker 3: and this is just like literally each hit and die.
Speaker 5: Right.
Speaker 3: They're also expanding this shit the work requirements to They
Speaker 3: want these work requirements to apply to people who have
Speaker 3: children ages thirteen and older. So if you are trying
Speaker 3: to like raise a child, fuck you eat shit and die.
Speaker 3: And again also like this is both Medicaid and SNAP,
Speaker 3: so this is a targeted The estimates by the CBO,
Speaker 3: this is per PBS, the Correctional Bunchet Office estimates that
Speaker 3: it will by twenty to thirty four, eighteen point eight
Speaker 3: million people will be uninsured from this. It will get
Speaker 3: three million people off of food stamps at a lot
Speaker 3: of those people are just going to be disabled and
Speaker 3: unbelievable numbers people of those people are going to fucking die,
Speaker 3: And that's the point of this, right. Also, it's going
Speaker 3: to be just hideous for trans people who use Medicaid
Speaker 3: and SNAP at enormous rates because disabled and trans people
Speaker 3: are like the two poorest populations in the US. It's
Speaker 3: fucking hideous.
Speaker 13: These systems are already so hard to get in on
Speaker 13: and stay on, like both, like both SNAP and Medicaid,
Speaker 13: requires substantial revisions and reforms to make them easier to access.
Speaker 13: To strengthen the infrastructure capacity of these things to get
Speaker 13: more people on them, they need more funding. This is
Speaker 13: basically trying to take an already kind of dying system
Speaker 13: and just take it out of back and shoot it
Speaker 13: in the head.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Well, and they intentionally just want it to be
Speaker 3: like harder and more frustrating and shitty to use, Like
Speaker 3: they literally rolled back that part of this bill is
Speaker 3: rolling back a bunch of reforms that Biden made to
Speaker 3: make it like slightly easier to get on. Yeah, and
Speaker 3: this is just going like, yeah, fuck you. This is
Speaker 3: going to be an absolute fucking catastrophe, not just because
Speaker 3: of the people that it immediately affects, although it is
Speaker 3: again going to kill unbelievable numbers of people. The other
Speaker 3: thing with this is that this is going to fucking
Speaker 3: annihilate rural hospitals, because rural hospitals get a huge amount
Speaker 3: of their money for Medicaid. And you know, there's a
Speaker 3: very good Kaiser Family Foundation report where they talk about
Speaker 3: how like, yeah, one in four people in rural areas
Speaker 3: get their health insurance from Medicaid, and it's estimated one
Speaker 3: hundred and fifty five billion dollars decrease in in money
Speaker 3: to hospitals and rural regions over the course of a decade.
Speaker 3: Those hospitals are already closing. Those hospitals are fucking gone.
Speaker 3: Like the this if this fucking passes as is and
Speaker 3: there is a provision in there, I that's like, oh,
Speaker 3: we're gonna spend fifty billion dollars on like to give
Speaker 3: money to royal hospitals. That's not enough. That's like that's
Speaker 3: a third of the amount that they're getting cut by, right,
Speaker 3: like and even and even if those hospitals are open,
Speaker 3: how the fuck are people going to pay for the
Speaker 3: treatments because they're now kickoff Medicaid. But this is going
Speaker 3: to fucking just absolutely eviscerate like the tiny remains of
Speaker 3: our rural healthcare system, which is a complete fucking shymbolic mess.
Speaker 3: This is just going to fucking liquidate it. It is
Speaker 3: going to cause mass suffering and death on a scale
Speaker 3: that like we are going to look back at the
Speaker 3: height of the opioid crisis and like in fucking nostalgia
Speaker 3: because we're going to have the opioid crisis and this
Speaker 3: at the same time. So it's real, real, fucking bad.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna mention a couple of other things that are
Speaker 3: in It's like, there's two points to this bill, right.
Speaker 3: One of the two points of it is to do
Speaker 3: is to again just like technically cleanse every non much
Speaker 3: person from the US. The second point of this bill
Speaker 3: is to give corporations four point five trillion dollars in
Speaker 3: tax cuts. It's mostly for rich people. That shit sucks.
Speaker 3: That's like the buy in for like the business people
Speaker 3: is you get these tax cuts. They also want to
Speaker 3: end the tax credit for electric cars because their response
Speaker 3: to climate change is fuck you die now again. As
Speaker 3: I mentioned, this only passed in the House by one
Speaker 3: vote last time, and that was actually a less extreme
Speaker 3: version of the Well, okay, there were some there's some
Speaker 3: more union shit in it that we'll talk about in
Speaker 3: the other episode in the House version of it, but
Speaker 3: this only passed in the House by one vote, and
Speaker 3: it only passed by one vote because three Democrats died
Speaker 3: in office. Great system's great, So things going great. However, Comma,
Speaker 3: it is possible to like, like, it is possible to
Speaker 3: beat these people. It is possible to get shit cut
Speaker 3: from this fucking bill. To end on a positive note
Speaker 3: on this, we talked a bit last we.
Speaker 13: Maybe last week, two weeks ago, one recent executive disorder.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, we're talked about I think it's on two
Speaker 3: different months now about how we beat the fucking ban
Speaker 3: on using Medicaid for trans healthcare. And by we, I
Speaker 3: mean a combination of trans journalists like Maddie Castigan, Bia Levine,
Speaker 3: David Forbes, or like resident trans policy analyst Kurvin Green.
Speaker 3: I did some work on it, not like a huge amount,
Speaker 3: but like, I don't know, like it a little bit.
Speaker 3: A lot of like local queer orgs did a bunch
Speaker 3: of really good work on this, and like quite frankly,
Speaker 3: like the other people who killed this as every single
Speaker 3: one of you who like fucking called and emailed and
Speaker 3: harasser senator like Ron Whiten, there was like there was
Speaker 3: there was there was queer orgs like lobbying directly, and
Speaker 3: then also his office got fucking flooded by shit from
Speaker 3: like you who went and like screamed at them until
Speaker 3: they stopped doing this. And because of that, we got
Speaker 3: this thing killed from the fucking bill, and the Republicans
Speaker 3: are so mad about it that like they could theoretically
Speaker 3: re add it to the House one and there is
Speaker 3: a chance where they get so mad that they readd
Speaker 3: this to the House bill, and then that causes the
Speaker 3: House bill to fail in the Senate because if they
Speaker 3: readd this into the House build then reconciliation fails and
Speaker 3: they had to go back to the Senate again. So
Speaker 3: you know, it is possible to fucking beat these people.
Speaker 3: And it's also important to understand that this was not
Speaker 3: done by like the giant national like gating, like huge
Speaker 3: nonprofit like Human Rights Commission, bullshit council stuff. They did
Speaker 3: a little bit of stuff on the fucking trailing end.
Speaker 3: This was accomplished almost entirely by a combination of non
Speaker 3: white and working class trans journalists and organizers and just
Speaker 3: like a bunch of random fucking people who were like,
Speaker 3: each shit, fuck you get this out, and you know
Speaker 3: on a thing that would have killed unbelievab numbers of transpeople.
Speaker 3: We fought the Republican Party and we beat them, So
Speaker 3: this can be done. And this bill is not guaranteed
Speaker 3: to fucking pass. The bill can still be it can
Speaker 3: still be killed. Yeah, yeah, like it is.
Speaker 5: It is.
Speaker 3: It is devastating enough to like rural healthcare that even
Speaker 3: Republican senators are talking about not wanting to cut Medicaid.
Speaker 13: So it's a very unpopular bill. And when you tell
Speaker 13: just regular Republicans about the details of the bill, they
Speaker 13: don't like it. You can hey, they're being like the
Speaker 13: Republican media machine is being so selective and how they're
Speaker 13: talking about the bill, because if you discuss the way
Speaker 13: that it just rips the heart out of Medicaid, that's
Speaker 13: not what most older Republicans want because they actually also
Speaker 13: rely on Medicaid. So it's it's a it is a
Speaker 13: pretty unpopular bill, and the more people learn about the bill,
Speaker 13: the more they dislike it. And you can you can
Speaker 13: see stats on this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and and the the unhinge thing about this right
Speaker 3: is that even with limited information most Republicans have about this,
Speaker 3: it still has like a twenty to thirty percent approval
Speaker 3: rating it's so unpopular even in the low information environment
Speaker 3: we're currently in. It it's like a twenty to thirty
Speaker 3: percent of proof rating. I think if everyone actually understood
Speaker 3: what was in the bill, I think it's roof rating
Speaker 3: would fucking drop even further. Yeah, nobody wants this, except
Speaker 3: except for like the overt genocide people.
Speaker 6: So most people, if they're not personally harmed, will know
Speaker 6: someone who's being personally harmed.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 13: Do you know what is popular, James Uh? I can
Speaker 13: guess the products and services that support this podcast beautiful.
Speaker 3: Ooh you know what else is extremely popular? It is
Speaker 3: my hit theme song about tariffs. Let's fucking go.
Speaker 6: Sarry Ropy jazz rocky jazz Bart Sorry lacking.
Speaker 3: Rocking jazz rocking jazz bo.
Speaker 5: Mia.
Speaker 13: What do we have for tariff talk this week?
Speaker 3: So this is an important week for tariffs. Next week
Speaker 3: will be the really really critical one. So next allegedly, allegedly,
Speaker 3: we'll see he's skeptical. So so next week, all of
Speaker 3: the tariffs on every other country in the world from
Speaker 3: the Liberation Day tarif tariffs are supposed to like come off.
Speaker 3: We're gonna see what happens.
Speaker 13: I've i've i've become, it could happen. Here's biggest tariff denier.
Speaker 13: I'm I'm the tariff denier conspiracy theorist.
Speaker 3: Well, so here's the Okay, So, so the Trump Minstration
Speaker 3: is claiming that they cut a deal with Vietnam again
Speaker 3: as a kind of recording on Wednesday. I haven't actually
Speaker 3: seen anything from like Vietnam confirming this. It's just worry about.
Speaker 3: It's totally real. Who fucking knows. So the deal that
Speaker 3: he's saying is that Vietnam is going to levy or
Speaker 3: you actually going to levey a twenty percent tariff on
Speaker 3: all goods from Vietnam and a forty percent tariff on
Speaker 3: goods that are produced elsewhere and moved through Vietnam. Now,
Speaker 3: I know we're used to like looking at like one
Speaker 3: hundred and thirty percent tariffs, but I cannot emphasize enough
Speaker 3: that a like a twenty percent teriffs on good on
Speaker 3: goods from Vietnam is also just fucking ruinous. Most terriiff
Speaker 3: coverage on Vietnam focuses on the fact that like companies
Speaker 3: like Nintendo, for example, deliberately move production to Vietnam to
Speaker 3: avoid tariffs on China. Now coverage is like this because
Speaker 3: all of these people fucking learned about Vietnam producing things
Speaker 3: like a week ago, they missed a decade of capital
Speaker 3: flight along. I mean it's a decade and a half
Speaker 3: released like twenty and eleven. A bunch of Trainese capital
Speaker 3: has been flowing into Vietnam, like down to the maycount delta.
Speaker 3: So these tariffs are not just affecting the ability of
Speaker 3: China to evade the terariffs on it by like moving
Speaker 3: products to other countries, which has been a lot of
Speaker 3: what's been keeping the inflation from just fucking exploding has
Speaker 3: been the ability of producers to rout goods through places
Speaker 3: like Vietnam. This is also hitting one of the world's
Speaker 3: largest manufacturing hubs right and at developing manufacturing hub that
Speaker 3: has very good infrastructure, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera
Speaker 3: that capital from China had been moving to. This is
Speaker 3: still even this twenty percent terariff on Vietnam is like catastrophic. Yeah,
Speaker 3: So we'll see what happens next week if the rest
Speaker 3: of the turf tariffs kick in. I don't know what's
Speaker 3: going to happen. Who fucking knows. I've been leaning towards
Speaker 3: I think they will. But yeah, even even this stuff
Speaker 3: is really fucking bad and we're gonna start seeing the
Speaker 3: impacts of it. But yeah, this has been tariff talk.
Speaker 13: There's there's enough skepticism in the market about the tariffs
Speaker 13: in general that so far, not not not all, but
Speaker 13: but most corporations have been eating the tariffs in this
Speaker 13: short term. Not all like famously, like like like Walmart
Speaker 13: like has been has been raising some prices, but a
Speaker 13: bunch of corporations have been eating the eating the costs
Speaker 13: because they do not think these will these will be
Speaker 13: largely effective like long term, and I mean this will
Speaker 13: slowly change, especially as as more of these start like
Speaker 13: being taken into effect on like a rolling basis. We'll
Speaker 13: probably see corporations adjust to this, and we'll see the
Speaker 13: market adjust to this. Yeah, but I think that's that's
Speaker 13: part of why maybe people haven't been seeing the massive
Speaker 13: price hikes that were expected back, you know, like two
Speaker 13: months ago.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, and I think also again the important thing here
Speaker 3: is what this is going to do to logistics firms,
Speaker 3: which have very very low margins, and right now they've
Speaker 3: been surviving by just running shit through other places. But like, again,
Speaker 3: if this is if twenty percent is the rate on Vietnam,
Speaker 3: plus there's now a massive vicent of not to run
Speaker 3: goods through Vietnam. That's really bad because that like kneecaps
Speaker 3: the evasion tools people have been using. Yeah, so we'll
Speaker 3: see what happens.
Speaker 6: Yeah, wait for me and come into place.
Speaker 13: Yeah yeah, let's talk about Alligator Alcatraz.
Speaker 3: So fucking god.
Speaker 13: Florida's new immigration detention center has opened this Wednesday. It's
Speaker 13: built on a remote airport with aircraft hangars outfitted with
Speaker 13: cages and bunk beds to incarcerate between three to five
Speaker 13: thousand people. The facility is surrounded by a mote of
Speaker 13: alligators and pythons. They're calling it to Alligator Alcatraz. It
Speaker 13: was designed to be the most efficient deportation machine in
Speaker 13: the country. National Guard members will act as immigration judges
Speaker 13: on site to speed up deportation proceedings. I'm going to
Speaker 13: play a short clip here apologize for hearing DeSantis.
Speaker 11: I mean this is going to be Illegals will come in,
Speaker 11: they'll be processed, There'll be places for them to be housed.
Speaker 11: You'll have an ability for food, you'll be an ability
Speaker 11: for them to consult legal rights. If they have that
Speaker 11: because there is a process.
Speaker 3: That's involved with this.
Speaker 13: So the Florida Attorney General has called this a quote
Speaker 13: one stop shop for immigration enforcement. Come in, get your process,
Speaker 13: and fly out unquote Jesus. So immigrants will be flown here.
Speaker 13: They will have some degree of due process here, not
Speaker 13: really real due process, but enough nope to fast track
Speaker 13: their deportation. Stay basically at this facilit like less than
Speaker 13: a week, and get deported from it. It has a
Speaker 13: working airports. They want to start running thousands of people
Speaker 13: through his facility basically every week. Trump toured the facility
Speaker 13: on Tuesday and he said, quote Biden wanted me in here. Okay,
Speaker 13: he wanted me didn't work out that way, but he
Speaker 13: wanted me in here, that son of a bitch unquote,
Speaker 13: which is an insane thing to say, and but it
Speaker 13: gives you an actual look into why the current Trump
Speaker 13: administration and like like why Trump term two point zero
Speaker 13: is kind of different from one point no, because it's
Speaker 13: purely built on this like this like animosity. It's built
Speaker 13: on this idea that Trump thinks that the entire like
Speaker 13: entire world conspired against him to lock him up, and
Speaker 13: somehow he beat them and now he's getting his revenge
Speaker 13: on the entire world, right, This is what's that. That's
Speaker 13: how he's governing. It's because Biden wanted to send him
Speaker 13: to the alligator Alcatraz, but he was able to beat him,
Speaker 13: and now he's going to get revenge on everyone who's
Speaker 13: tried to stop him. And that's how he's running the
Speaker 13: country because that's the thing that he's obsessed with. He
Speaker 13: can't stop talking about Biden. He brings up Biden fucking
Speaker 13: every day because it's not about what Biden actually did.
Speaker 13: It's this like symbol of like everyone who's tried to
Speaker 13: like tried to beat me, everyone who's tried to like
Speaker 13: lock me up. Now I get to take my revenge
Speaker 13: out on them. They wanted to disappear me to this
Speaker 13: alligator concentration camp, which no they didn't because this thing
Speaker 13: fucking didn't exist a week ago. Like this, this facility
Speaker 13: was built in the last eight days. It's going to
Speaker 13: cost four hundred and fifty million dollars annually to operate.
Speaker 13: I remember when I went to the Charlie Kirk event
Speaker 13: in Atlanta, they're talking about like how much money we're
Speaker 13: spending to give immigrants like free cell phones and to
Speaker 13: give them housing. Meanwhile, you have not only this this
Speaker 13: bill that massively massively increases the deficit in ways we've
Speaker 13: never seen before. Plus on the local level, you have
Speaker 13: four hundred million dollars a year for these deportation facilities.
Speaker 13: And this facility specifically built on the Florida Everglades. It's
Speaker 13: not hurricane proof, of course, after one day of operating,
Speaker 13: they've already had flooding issues. This is an incredibly dangerous facility.
Speaker 13: It could lead to a natural disaster, could kill thousands
Speaker 13: of people here. And currently the state of Florida is
Speaker 13: selling alligator Alcatraz merchandise on their website.
Speaker 3: So always a grift as well, so you.
Speaker 13: Can get deportation merchandise, you can get concentration camp merchandise.
Speaker 13: This is the this is the soul of the of
Speaker 13: the Republican Party. For our last main story tonight, let's
Speaker 13: talk about how Trump and the Democrats are trying to
Speaker 13: stop the domentum. Because ranked choice voting has now been completed.
Speaker 13: Zoron has defeated Cuomo fifty six to forty four, twelve
Speaker 13: points which were talied in just the third round of
Speaker 13: ranked choice voting. The other tallies will come out like eventually,
Speaker 13: but this is like the last like legitimate tally because
Speaker 13: of like the elimination rules. Zoron got one hundred and
Speaker 13: fifty thousand more votes than Eric Adams one with in
Speaker 13: twenty twenty one, like phenomenal sweeps. It's wild, like we've
Speaker 13: never seen anything like this. Commy summer, Baby, let's go so.
Speaker 13: Republican Representative Andy Ogles of Tennessee sent a letter to
Speaker 13: Attorney General Pam Bondi asking to investigate Mamdani for denaturalization
Speaker 13: on the grounds that he obtained citizenship through misrepresentation or
Speaker 13: concealing material support for terrorism. I'm going to read this
Speaker 13: disgusting quote from Ogles because I think people should hear it. Quote, Zoron,
Speaker 13: little Mohammed Dani is an anti Semitic, socialist communist will
Speaker 13: destroy the great City of New York. He needs to
Speaker 13: be deported, which is why I'm calling for him to
Speaker 13: be the subject to denaturalization proceedings.
Speaker 6: This is a guy who who would be petrified if
Speaker 6: he ever had to walk around New York because seeing
Speaker 6: brown people is very scary when you know this kind
Speaker 6: of person.
Speaker 13: Zoron's been facing this huge wave of egregious like islamophobic attacks,
Speaker 13: including from the gimies of his own party. On a
Speaker 13: radio show, Democrat New York Senator Kirsten Gillibrand falsely claimed
Speaker 13: that Mam Donnie had made references in support of quote
Speaker 13: unquote global Jihad. Outrageous stuff.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 13: On Monday, she apologized for these comments in a private
Speaker 13: call to Mamdani and expressed that she believes that Zorn
Speaker 13: is sincere when he says he wants to protect all
Speaker 13: New Yorkers and combat anti Semitism, but fucking, fucking gross stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's it was so hideous, it's like two thousand
Speaker 3: and three level.
Speaker 13: It's. Yeah, it's really bad.
Speaker 3: Wait, you know, it's considerably worse than that.
Speaker 6: Like Bush gave the islamis the Fabric of America speech
Speaker 6: in two thousand and one. Yeah, Like we now have
Speaker 6: Democrats just knee jerking to fuck them all their terrorists.
Speaker 13: Like in their own party, and like many top New
Speaker 13: York Democrats have still refused to endorse the now like
Speaker 13: Democratic nominee, including Governor Kathy Hochel, House Minority Leader Hakim Jeffries,
Speaker 13: and Sonather Chuck Schumer.
Speaker 6: Jeffries posted in support of him today, some of them.
Speaker 13: Have expressed like support of him, specifically support against Islama
Speaker 13: public attacks, but have explicitly refused to endorse him as
Speaker 13: a nominee, which is like it's vote blue no matter
Speaker 13: who until you have like a Muslim democratic socialist and
Speaker 13: it's like we have to discuss, Like, you know, there's
Speaker 13: some we have some skeptical things about his candidacy and
Speaker 13: his ability to keep New Yorker safe.
Speaker 6: You're like, oh boy, yeah, yeah, you voted for the
Speaker 6: three people who die. You endorsed the three people who
Speaker 6: died in office. I guess like since the last election
Speaker 6: in the House, like now, the attacks have continued. On Monday,
Speaker 6: Fox News supporter Peter Doucy asked White House pre Secretary
Speaker 6: Caroline Levitt about deporting Zoran. Let's play the clip, Peter thak.
Speaker 10: Caroline, does President Trump want Zoran Mamdani deported?
Speaker 14: I haven't heard him say that. I haven't heard him
Speaker 14: call for that, but certainly he does not want this
Speaker 14: individual to be a I was just speaking to him
Speaker 14: about it and his radical policies that will completely crush
Speaker 14: New York City, which is obviously a city that the
Speaker 14: President holds near and dear to his heart.
Speaker 10: There's this Congressman Annie Ogles. He wants the Attorney General
Speaker 10: Bondi to explore denaturalization proceedings because he thinks Mom Donnie
Speaker 10: could have misrepresented or concealed material support for terrorism based
Speaker 10: on rap lyrics. He wrote in twenty seventeen. Does President
Speaker 10: Trump think this is a worthwhile use of the Attorney
Speaker 10: General's time?
Speaker 14: Well, I'll let the President speak to that. I have
Speaker 14: not seen those claims, but surely if they are true,
Speaker 14: it's something that should be investigated.
Speaker 10: It.
Speaker 6: It's ridiculous to suggest that you could wrap your material
Speaker 6: support for terrorism. That they have to prove that you
Speaker 6: materially supportated group which he is listed to FTO.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 13: Then on Tuesday day later, Trump himself attacked Zoran, threatening
Speaker 13: to arrest him if he interferes with ICE.
Speaker 12: Your beloved New York City may well be led by
Speaker 12: a commmunists soon, Zorhan Mundami, who in his nomination speech
Speaker 12: said he will defy ICE and will not allow ICE
Speaker 12: to arrest criminal aliens in New York City.
Speaker 3: Your message to communist Zorhan Mundami.
Speaker 7: Well, then we'll have to arrest him. Look, we don't
Speaker 7: need a communist in this country. But if we have one,
Speaker 7: I'm going to be watching over them very carefully on
Speaker 7: behalf of the nation.
Speaker 13: Later, Trump suggested that Zoron quote unquote may be here
Speaker 13: illegally and that the Trump administration would be looking into that,
Speaker 13: while in the same clip praising the now independent nominee
Speaker 13: and current mayor Eric Adams.
Speaker 7: Independent running mayor Adams, who's a very good person. I
Speaker 7: helped him out a little bit. He had a problem
Speaker 7: and he was unfairly hurt.
Speaker 5: Over this question.
Speaker 7: He made a statement to the effect that this is
Speaker 7: terrible New York City can have all these immigrants come in,
Speaker 7: and like he was indicted the following day.
Speaker 3: Just clearly admitting to corruption. He had a little problem,
Speaker 3: and I helped him out.
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, just a little problem with accepting massive payments
Speaker 6: from Turkey to fucking corrupt his whole city.
Speaker 3: And I want to say here too, like I was
Speaker 3: watching just like Trump openly targeting Tom Donnie, like all
Speaker 3: of the Democrats who are attacking him are just on
Speaker 3: the side of Trump here. And this has been a
Speaker 3: significant problem the entire administration is that one of Trump's
Speaker 3: like core basis of support is like sitting democratic fucking legislatures.
Speaker 3: It's like fucking Chuck Schumer. Yeah, like all of these people.
Speaker 13: Yeah, they're working with Trump rhetorically on all.
Speaker 3: Of this and sometimes literally with like Schumer voting for
Speaker 3: the original like budget resolution shit. Like they're just they're
Speaker 3: just actively collaborating.
Speaker 13: On Tuesday, is or unreleased a statement regarding Trump's comments, saying, quote,
Speaker 13: the President of the United States just threatened to have
Speaker 13: me arrested, stripped of my citizenship, and put in a
Speaker 13: detention camp, and deport it. Not because they have broken
Speaker 13: any law, but because I will refuse to let ice
Speaker 13: terrorize our city. Don't just represent an attack on our democracy,
Speaker 13: but an attempt to send a message to every New
Speaker 13: Yorker who refuses to hide in the shadows. If you
Speaker 13: speak up, they will come for you. We will not
Speaker 13: accept this intimidation. That Trump included praise for Eric Adams
Speaker 13: and his authoritarian threats is unsurprising but highlights the urgency
Speaker 13: of bringing an end to this mayor's time in City
Speaker 13: Hall at the very moment when mega Republicans are attempting
Speaker 13: to destroy the social safety net, take millions of New
Speaker 13: Yorkers off healthcare, and enrich their billionaire donors. At the
Speaker 13: expense of working families. It is a scandal that Eric
Speaker 13: Adams echoes this president's division, distraction and hate. Voters will
Speaker 13: resoundingly reject it. In November, unquote and former mayor of
Speaker 13: Build a Blasio came out in support of Zoran, saying, quote,
Speaker 13: Donald Trump will have to go through a lot of
Speaker 13: us first. If he wants to arrest a Zor Mamdani,
Speaker 13: We New Yorkers will put a human shield around him
Speaker 13: if we need to. No one gets to intimidate us.
Speaker 3: Build a Blasio. If you get arrested doing the human shield,
Speaker 3: we will forgive you for one of your many crimes.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I w off for rest Bill.
Speaker 13: Good for Bill, But no, everyone needs to do this,
Speaker 13: Like everyone needs to get behind him right now. If
Speaker 13: he's gonna be the target of this like denaturalization, push
Speaker 13: for this. Yeah, if he becomes like the symbol of
Speaker 13: everything that Trump hates, Like Democrats need to fall in
Speaker 13: line fucking right now. And you can't be attacking this
Speaker 13: guy for like innate isamophobia. Yeah, it's it's it's outrageous.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 6: He also has made one of the funniest music videos
Speaker 6: I have ever seen. There's some good stuff it's video
Speaker 6: about how much he loves his grandmother with Mada Jeoffrey,
Speaker 6: and it is outstanding.
Speaker 13: Now we do have some good news to close this
Speaker 13: episode on, including the return of the Stinky Musk segment.
Speaker 13: In Pennsylvania, Tesla turned into train tracks and drove into
Speaker 13: an un drove into an oncoming train. It's okay, people
Speaker 13: were able to exit the car before the grass. But
Speaker 13: great stuff, great stuff in the self driving car department.
Speaker 6: Oh good, and Trump.
Speaker 13: Truthed on Monday, quote Elon might get more subsidy than
Speaker 13: any human being in histree by far. And without subsidies,
Speaker 13: Elon would probably have to close up shop and head
Speaker 13: back home to South Africa. No more rocket lunches, satellites
Speaker 13: are electric car production, and our country would save a fortune.
Speaker 13: Perhaps we should have Doge take a good, hard look
Speaker 13: at this big money to be saved. And then on
Speaker 13: July first, on his way to Alligator Alcatraz, Trump was
Speaker 13: questioned again about Elon and said, quote, We'll have to
Speaker 13: take a look. We might have to put Doge on Elon.
Speaker 13: You know what that Doge is, that monster that might
Speaker 13: have to go back and eat Elon. Wouldn't that be terrible?
Speaker 13: He gets a lot of subsidies. Elon responded to this
Speaker 13: on X the Everything app quote so tempting to escalate
Speaker 13: this so so tempting, but I will refrain for now.
Speaker 3: I will say Musk has also been talking about four
Speaker 3: by a new party if this budget bill.
Speaker 13: Passes, so god, I hope so would be the funniest thing.
Speaker 13: What other good news do we have to end on here?
Speaker 13: I think the other good news was the the Asylum
Speaker 13: van getting Star up to the coach. Oh we already
Speaker 13: did that, good news.
Speaker 6: Yeah, we already did that.
Speaker 3: Oh that that's it?
Speaker 5: Then?
Speaker 13: Yeah, mm hmmm, all right. Well, people like ED being
Speaker 13: an hour long. I've been the longer, the better.
Speaker 6: It's one thing they say about ED.
Speaker 13: It goes without saying James, we reported the news.
Speaker 3: We reported the news.
Speaker 2: Hey, We'll be back Monday with more episodes every week
Speaker 2: from now until the heat death of the universe.
Speaker 3: It could happen.
Speaker 13: Here is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website
Speaker 1: fool zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio.
Speaker 3: App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever.
Speaker 1: You listen to podcasts. You can now find sources for
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Speaker 1: for listening,