Speaker 1: Everyone, Welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptor Show.
Speaker 1: Today I am sitting down and joined by Corey Clipston.
Speaker 1: He has another bitcoiner he is, uh, got a pretty
Speaker 1: wide range of background, really really interesting person and I
Speaker 1: can't wait to dive in with him. Corey, welcome to
Speaker 1: the show. Mark, thanks for having me on. It's it's
Speaker 1: good to meet another so cal bitcoiner here on video anyway,
Speaker 1: and I look forward to hanging out in person at
Speaker 1: some point. Yeah. Thanks, Uh, Yeah, I love talking bitcoin.
Speaker 1: If you watched any of my shows, you know that already.
Speaker 1: But Corey, you know so just for everybody watching, want
Speaker 1: you give us a little bit of a background, just
Speaker 1: who you are, a couple of minutes on who you
Speaker 1: are and where you've been. Yeah, absolutely so. Right now today,
Speaker 1: I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Swan
Speaker 1: Bitcoin swan bitcoin dot com. Uh. Going back a few decades,
Speaker 1: I started out my career working at Microsoft. Was at
Speaker 1: Morgan Stanley for a little while doing like high net
Speaker 1: worth client marketing UM, and that was just before business school.
Speaker 1: Went to University of Chicago, got an NBA in finance
Speaker 1: and entrepreneurship. There after that was that McKenzie and Company,
Speaker 1: the management consulting company out in their New York office,
Speaker 1: did private equity consulting with my own firm out of
Speaker 1: Chicago for a couple of years before another little stint,
Speaker 1: and management consulting through the downturn like eight to eleven.
Speaker 1: It was probably about two thousand nine two ten that
Speaker 1: I really caught the the early stage tech bug and
Speaker 1: really decided I wanted to spend the rest of my
Speaker 1: career building startups, investing in startups, and being in kind
Speaker 1: of a startup ecosystem. Was kind of sick of fixing
Speaker 1: other people's problems and consulting in private equity and cleaning
Speaker 1: up their messes, and I decided I wanted to make
Speaker 1: my own mistakes and build things. So I went to
Speaker 1: Google for two years really just to kind of do
Speaker 1: b school apart to the Internet version, and learned as
Speaker 1: much as I could. Fen met something like fifteen vcs
Speaker 1: and founders, was mentoring startups, organizing tech meetups and things
Speaker 1: like that out of Chicago and l A and UH.
Speaker 1: By summer of about six months after moving my family
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles, I was confident enough that I could
Speaker 1: leave Google, jump in with two feet start advising investing
Speaker 1: and looking for startups to help operate. And that's what
Speaker 1: I've been doing for the last seven years. So you've
Speaker 1: been helping startups operator get start up, I guess, and
Speaker 1: then you finally decided to take the plunge and started
Speaker 1: up on your own. Yeah, well I did take the plunge.
Speaker 1: From late thirteen to late fifteen, I was on the
Speaker 1: senior team of an ad tech startup that did pretty
Speaker 1: well and raised a bunch of money and at a
Speaker 1: bunch of vcs and kind of went through that thing,
Speaker 1: and I came out of that kind of combining prowess
Speaker 1: and fundraising, which I've been doing, you know, off and
Speaker 1: on for sixteen years now, and strategy from all the
Speaker 1: work that I've done in consulting and uh basically worked
Speaker 1: with something like thirty CEOs over the next four years
Speaker 1: on strategy and fundraising, helped raise over a quarter billion
Speaker 1: dollars across twenty companies and thirty rounds, and and also
Speaker 1: continued to make angel investment throughout. So I built myself
Speaker 1: a nice little like a name and some experience and
Speaker 1: kind of got my uh, you know, my master's degree
Speaker 1: in in startups and got to the point where you know,
Speaker 1: I've been kicking around ideas for a while of something
Speaker 1: to start and had some fits and starts of things
Speaker 1: outside the bitcoin space, and nothing really you know, got
Speaker 1: my attention and passion to the point where this did
Speaker 1: and this, uh you know, bitcoin grabbed me, never let go.
Speaker 1: And once I had the idea for for what I'm
Speaker 1: doing in the space, now it grabbed me and never
Speaker 1: let go and it's just become a reality because I
Speaker 1: couldn't do anything else. Yeah, I know, I know what
Speaker 1: you're talking about. So, um, just for everybody that's watching,
Speaker 1: we're gonna go through a bunch of information and um,
Speaker 1: if you are new to bitcoin, um, you probably have
Speaker 1: a whole bunch of objections in your head. We're gonna
Speaker 1: run through those towards the end to make sure you
Speaker 1: stick around for that. But um, Corey, So it's interesting
Speaker 1: that you know, you've been through all these different businesses,
Speaker 1: the ins and outs of it, inside the belly of
Speaker 1: the beast almost so to speak. Right, like lit working
Speaker 1: in the financial system you had mentioned, like Mackenzie Morgan,
Speaker 1: stan Stanley. I mean, they're like as as deep as
Speaker 1: you can get kind of right. Yeah, absolutely, it was
Speaker 1: right in the thick of it. I was even spent
Speaker 1: a lot of that time at Mackenzie working in Financial
Speaker 1: Institutions group and putting together you know, financial models for
Speaker 1: new products for financial firms things like that. Yeah, so,
Speaker 1: you know, I find it interesting because you have like
Speaker 1: this very deep background in finance and then you also
Speaker 1: have a deep background in tech at the same time. So, um,
Speaker 1: you know, bitcoin is a lot of different things, and
Speaker 1: it's definitely finance and tech. Right, So when did you
Speaker 1: first hear about bitcoin and when did you decide to
Speaker 1: finally get in? I mean, even someone that knows as
Speaker 1: much as you do, like tell me how that journey
Speaker 1: worked out. Well, this is why I would say, like,
Speaker 1: if you felt like, you know, you heard about bitcoin
Speaker 1: in twenty or twenty eighteen and didn't get in or
Speaker 1: got it, you know, heard about it last year and
Speaker 1: still didn't get in, it's absolutely not too late. In fact,
Speaker 1: every day that you wait is only going to hurt
Speaker 1: you in the future, because the chances are this thing
Speaker 1: becomes ubiquitous and we all end up pricing goods and
Speaker 1: services globally in bitcoin, you know, So like the earlier
Speaker 1: you can start learning about it and understanding it. The better.
Speaker 1: So that's my first bit of imploring you to take
Speaker 1: this seriously. It's kind of like the old proverb the
Speaker 1: best time to plan a three is twenty years ago.
Speaker 1: Second best time is today exactly exactly. Yeah, um, you
Speaker 1: know so, so don't feel bad if it didn't take
Speaker 1: the first time. It's the story of of people that
Speaker 1: are heavy in the bitcoin today, the bitcoin founders, even
Speaker 1: the coders that that work on Bitcoin Corps, the people
Speaker 1: that write about it and have podcasts. Like, most of
Speaker 1: these people missed it the first time around. I was
Speaker 1: at a tech conference in uh January and uh, and
Speaker 1: somebody had a blockchain wallet and was given away fifty
Speaker 1: dollars for everybody that installed a blockchain wallet. And I
Speaker 1: got my bitcoin on my blockchain wallet, and I proceeded
Speaker 1: to not read the white paper, not go down the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole, and lose the private key. Oh and you know.
Speaker 1: And then in December, I was at a Buddies holiday
Speaker 1: party up in Santa Barbara and uh, he knew knows
Speaker 1: what I do, and he asked me to help him
Speaker 1: basically put together like a marketing deck for a series
Speaker 1: I'll see that had stakes of his that he had
Speaker 1: in in eight different startups, and one of them was
Speaker 1: Balagi's company, which is like early bitcoin mining attempt, and
Speaker 1: another one was ripple Um, which is trash but you
Speaker 1: know as a company, but you know, And so I
Speaker 1: had another opportunity. I was like reading up on bitcoin
Speaker 1: over the holidays and putting together these slides for him,
Speaker 1: and like it still didn't take. I was so busy
Speaker 1: with other things and other clients and investments and things
Speaker 1: like that, Like it just didn't didn't click. It wasn't
Speaker 1: until I'm a pretty social animal. I like to organize things.
Speaker 1: I like to recruit people, like like to throw parties.
Speaker 1: I like to you know, you know, just basically like
Speaker 1: throw conferences. Like I always organizing people. And I take
Speaker 1: my cues a lot more than I probably should from
Speaker 1: what's going on around me. And it was only the
Speaker 1: noise of the price run up in bitcoin and ethereum
Speaker 1: and then all of these people jumping over into I
Speaker 1: c O projects in spring of that really caught my attention.
Speaker 1: And it was only by luck that one of the
Speaker 1: first kindly say alt coin fund founders, Uh, this is
Speaker 1: who running a crypto fund? Uh? And I guess he
Speaker 1: liked me, and he knew what he was doing with
Speaker 1: all the I c O crap insisted that I read
Speaker 1: digital gold first and that I buy some bitcoin first.
Speaker 1: So thank goodness for that gentleman, who's another guy here
Speaker 1: in so cal forced me to at least start there,
Speaker 1: and I think that gave me just enough of like
Speaker 1: a head start on bitcoin to make what what people
Speaker 1: call your am I allowed to use off color language
Speaker 1: on this show, Mark Sure, go for it. Okay. Well,
Speaker 1: a lot of people in bitcoin refer to a shipcoin
Speaker 1: horse shoe, which is basically most people do start in
Speaker 1: the space in bitcoin, and then you basically have a
Speaker 1: shipcoin journey where you're like, go and explore everything else
Speaker 1: because why wouldn't you. You're a curious person. And eventually
Speaker 1: you finish your horse shoe journey and come back to bitcoin.
Speaker 1: Thank goodness for this guy getting me started. My my
Speaker 1: shipcoin horse shoe only took about ten or eleven months,
Speaker 1: and by then I was actually already working full time
Speaker 1: in the space. I had taken over as president and
Speaker 1: chief investment officer of a crypto fund UH in early
Speaker 1: eighteen terrible timing, but yeah, by like March or April
Speaker 1: of that year, I wanted nothing to do with any
Speaker 1: of the I c O s or the cryptos, and
Speaker 1: I saw no value in any of them. And I
Speaker 1: saw bitcoin as a money that would you know, trend
Speaker 1: toward one and the hardest money ever and all the
Speaker 1: things that you talk about in your videos. And so
Speaker 1: I basically spent about six months trying to extricate myself
Speaker 1: from the situation of having hired a dozen people and
Speaker 1: uh and having responsibilities and etcetera. And uh, yes, since
Speaker 1: I left completely by the beginning of August or late August,
Speaker 1: and basically spent the next six months trying to figure
Speaker 1: out what to do in bitcoin. I really wanted to
Speaker 1: do something in this space, and I finally figured it out.
Speaker 1: And it's the most obvious thing that you could possibly
Speaker 1: think of, the new business that you finally decided to
Speaker 1: jump into. It is the most obvious thing. It's the
Speaker 1: most obvious thing that you could possibly think of to
Speaker 1: do with bitcoin, yeah, which is selling it sell bitcoin. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's it's so funny. And this is again, this
Speaker 1: is that this is like having the wrong mental framework.
Speaker 1: You know, I got caught up with all these uh
Speaker 1: these all coins thinking that you know, maybe bitcoins my
Speaker 1: Space and Facebook is around the corner, or maybe it's
Speaker 1: like tech and there's all these other things that can
Speaker 1: kind of do different versions of the same thing, and
Speaker 1: it's like, no, actually, bitcoin's money, and tech enables it,
Speaker 1: and it's this protocol and there's some other cool things.
Speaker 1: So it's like a new kind of money. But at
Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's money. It's the hardest money,
Speaker 1: the soundest money that's ever existed, and all these other
Speaker 1: things combined may have a you know, a maximum market
Speaker 1: opportunity of something like two orders of magnitude smaller than bitcoin.
Speaker 1: So like, if you take the current crop of all
Speaker 1: all coins that exist ethereum included, you know, their upside
Speaker 1: combined is like one percent of what bitcoins upside is. Um. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean that's there's there's so many different ways to
Speaker 1: look at it. Um. I just made a tweet yesterday
Speaker 1: that is probably the biggest viral tweet I've ever put out.
Speaker 1: I can't believe it. And I basically just said I
Speaker 1: was just thinking last night and I was just like,
Speaker 1: you know, what if bitcoin never goes up in value,
Speaker 1: but it keeps my value, keeps my my store of
Speaker 1: value up within aation like I'll be fine with it.
Speaker 1: And I just tweeted that out and uh, I mean
Speaker 1: it's like like the biggest viral tweet I've ever put out,
Speaker 1: it seems like. But the point being, I'm not in
Speaker 1: it to get to the moon. And so you talk
Speaker 1: about other all, it's like, uh, they don't they don't
Speaker 1: have as much upside? Well do do we really care
Speaker 1: about the upside? Like? What is it that bitcoin feet like?
Speaker 1: For me? Anyway, it's kind of like, you know, the
Speaker 1: features that bitcoin gives us being borderless, permission list, censorship resistant, immutable,
Speaker 1: that's what makes it special to me. And some people
Speaker 1: in the US don't care. But if you're in Iran
Speaker 1: or Venezuela, you probably do care. Um. And so for me,
Speaker 1: I mean I would say, maybe some alts give you
Speaker 1: better returns right now, it's like penny stocks. It's like
Speaker 1: chasing penny stocks, right, but none of them, I guess.
Speaker 1: I guess the argument I get into with with crypto
Speaker 1: crypto alts is, uh, what are the features you're trying
Speaker 1: to optimize? Force? So people tell me, oh, but this
Speaker 1: is this one's faster, and I'm like, do people want
Speaker 1: faster money? Well? I mean, I think at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, I think we're talking about the same
Speaker 1: thing on different time frames and with different strategies and
Speaker 1: different people. So if you're a professional trader and you're
Speaker 1: a short term time horizon, and I have a lot
Speaker 1: of professional trader friends, and I don't begrudge them whatsoever
Speaker 1: for increasing their net worth by trading cryptos, like this
Speaker 1: is the easiest thing that you could possibly do. To
Speaker 1: look at these inefficient markets, with these pump and dump
Speaker 1: schemes constantly going out, and like insider information makes you rich,
Speaker 1: like absolutely by all means, get on key base and
Speaker 1: discord and telegram and call your friends and Nike a
Speaker 1: Tunnelly or look at your technical analysis. But everybody else
Speaker 1: that's not a professional trader and hasn't been a professional
Speaker 1: trader for the last decade or two, You, like all
Speaker 1: other humans, are going to buy high and sell low
Speaker 1: because you're gonna find out about it and get excited
Speaker 1: about it when it's finally starting to go up and
Speaker 1: you're gonna buy you know, compound or whatever at eight
Speaker 1: and it's gonna go down the next day or whatever. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, So you just want to be accumulating the
Speaker 1: thing that's going to be around for a long time.
Speaker 1: If something in this space is going to work, it's
Speaker 1: gonna be bitcoin. And that's the only one that has
Speaker 1: an opportunity to actually be global money out of everything
Speaker 1: in this space. And really these arguments are much more
Speaker 1: of like vintage argument. And most bitcoiners that are serious,
Speaker 1: that spend a lot of time in the space, as
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know the people you talk to, but
Speaker 1: your audience would know this too, they're not actually spending
Speaker 1: any time talking about alts anymore. Our conversations are about governments.
Speaker 1: Our conversations about financial infrastructure, our conferstrates. Our conversations are
Speaker 1: about liquidity, privacy technologies, payments technologies. They're about fidelity, they're
Speaker 1: about square, They're about visa, They're about you know about
Speaker 1: non k y C bitcoin, you know, like how can
Speaker 1: you buy bitcoin without having to have it, you know,
Speaker 1: on the grid, that kind of thing. Ye. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: if anyone watching my videos, they know that's all I
Speaker 1: spend my time talking about. I'm curious. So having been
Speaker 1: in tech, in finance, UM and all these different industries
Speaker 1: and now you're building a company in this space. Now
Speaker 1: you're building you're not building on bitcoin. You're not building
Speaker 1: on the code, but you're building a business that revolves
Speaker 1: around bitcoin. And I'm curious how that is to build
Speaker 1: a business, um with someone that has kind of experienced
Speaker 1: that you do so um dealing with banks, dealing with uh,
Speaker 1: you know, fundraising, if you guys are doing fundraising, and
Speaker 1: just uh, is there this stigma that's making it difficult
Speaker 1: to grow a business around bitcoin or does it seem
Speaker 1: pretty easy? Well, there's obviously a lot more easy money
Speaker 1: slashing around when you can create your own token, and
Speaker 1: so that's why you see a lot of these legacy
Speaker 1: like raises, like still having a lot of money to
Speaker 1: slash around, and it's gonna take a while for you know,
Speaker 1: the market to swallow all of that malinvestment and all
Speaker 1: the inefficiency. So you have you know, crap like Cardano
Speaker 1: and Tron still putting out videos and marketing programs and
Speaker 1: things like that because they're raised a hundred million dollars
Speaker 1: and have this big treasure or whatever. But at the
Speaker 1: end of the day, eventually that will get spent in
Speaker 1: an old results. I'm more I'm more talking about like, uh,
Speaker 1: you know at the bank, do they say, oh, you're
Speaker 1: a bitcoin business, we can't accept your bank account. Uh no, no,
Speaker 1: there's there There are enough there are enough banks that
Speaker 1: will work with bitcoin companies that it's not really an
Speaker 1: issue anymore. I mean, you've got you've got plenty of
Speaker 1: partners to choose from at this point. Okay, So as
Speaker 1: far as building a business on a revolves around bitcoin today,
Speaker 1: a couple years ago it wasn't. But today you feel
Speaker 1: it's a kind of not too much different to building
Speaker 1: in any other type of business. So let's look at
Speaker 1: it through the lens that I know really well, which
Speaker 1: is like startups. And so you know, one of the
Speaker 1: challenges that you certainly have is in the fundraising arena.
Speaker 1: And you know, basically the problem that you have is
Speaker 1: you're looking for investors that care enough about bitcoin and
Speaker 1: know enough about bitcoin to think that your company is
Speaker 1: a good bet. But by definition they know enough about
Speaker 1: bitcoin to be judging a startup investment versus their expectations
Speaker 1: for bitcoin as an asset. Their total rate is basically
Speaker 1: their expectations of you know, what they think bitcoin is
Speaker 1: going to do over the life of your startup, and
Speaker 1: so basically that that makes it very difficult for most
Speaker 1: bitcoin startups to raise money. You know, because of my
Speaker 1: background and extensive network, it's not been an issue for us,
Speaker 1: but I do see that problem for a lot of
Speaker 1: other companies in the space, and that's why I and
Speaker 1: and three friends of mine have gotten together and we
Speaker 1: started a fund called bitcoiner Ventures earlier this year. And
Speaker 1: basically the goal there is, you know, while the percentage
Speaker 1: of people who would invest in a bitcoin start up
Speaker 1: maybe small, the denominator of people that you can pull
Speaker 1: from should be the largest of any vertical and technology
Speaker 1: because there's so many people around the world. So our
Speaker 1: our goal basically is just aggregate like a few thousand
Speaker 1: people that might raise their hand and write a small
Speaker 1: check into a bitcoin startup and do those through syndicates.
Speaker 1: And we successfully did a funding for Unchained Capital out
Speaker 1: of Austin, which does really really cool stuff in the
Speaker 1: bitcoin space, including bitcoin backed loans and and multi sig
Speaker 1: custody setups and things like that. So we cut our
Speaker 1: first check for them in in May towards late May
Speaker 1: um and we're hoping to do another deal this fall
Speaker 1: out of bitcoin Ventures. Nice. That's good. Continue to help
Speaker 1: the ecosystem grow. Oh so, um, I'm just curious. I
Speaker 1: wanted to dive back in for a second before we
Speaker 1: move on. UM, So again you had kind of talked
Speaker 1: about how, or maybe you told me before we started recording,
Speaker 1: but you were saying how you got into bitcoin but
Speaker 1: you thought it was just like a tech play, um,
Speaker 1: and you were buying it, but you didn't really understand
Speaker 1: what it was. Your eyes hadn't really been opened up.
Speaker 1: You haven't been read build whatever you wanna call it. UM,
Speaker 1: tell me about that, like what what what? What was it?
Speaker 1: What was your old view that was wrong? And then
Speaker 1: how did you come to look at it differently? I mean,
Speaker 1: I'll just come back to the you know, the my
Speaker 1: Space Facebook analogy is probably the easiest one. Like you know,
Speaker 1: you you get into something in technology and the first
Speaker 1: thing you think of is something better going to come
Speaker 1: along soon and disrupt this. So you may be an
Speaker 1: investor in Friendster and then you just get your lunch
Speaker 1: eaten by my Space and you think you have the
Speaker 1: right one because you're at my Space, But then Facebook
Speaker 1: comes along and just like destroys you. So that's actually
Speaker 1: probably the I would I would say, I mean, at
Speaker 1: least the top two. UM, you know, complain not complains,
Speaker 1: but objections that I hear, um is that but there's
Speaker 1: a thousand other cryptos and and and exactly what you said,
Speaker 1: Bitcoin is gonna be the old mice brace and um
Speaker 1: all though, so how do you look at that? Now?
Speaker 1: So let me let me use this. So there's a
Speaker 1: lot of arguments for why it can only be Bitcoin,
Speaker 1: but I'll almost even more easily say why it can't
Speaker 1: be any other one because let's say that some alt
Speaker 1: coin becomes dominant, why would you stop there? Let's say
Speaker 1: it becomes dominant because of some feature, and and people
Speaker 1: make the argument and it flippings, as they say, if
Speaker 1: it flippings bitcoin, why would you stop there? So now
Speaker 1: it's Ethereum, well why not eos? Why not some other thing?
Speaker 1: Why not you know, cosmos? Why not whatever? You know?
Speaker 1: Like there will always be people. So basically, this concept
Speaker 1: of of a shelling point, which is basically where you
Speaker 1: know the second order estimation of what you think other
Speaker 1: people will think, ends up that we all basically think
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. So it's like, you know, these
Speaker 1: things exist where you're like, uh, you know, let's meet
Speaker 1: in New York tomorrow, but you don't give any other information,
Speaker 1: like where would you meet, right, And you know, basically
Speaker 1: the shelling point is grand Central Station in the Grand
Speaker 1: Hall at noon, because that's what most people would think, right,
Speaker 1: And so it's like the point that where most people
Speaker 1: are are being concentrated around, which I which I agree with,
Speaker 1: But you know, I think Bitcoin is a little bit
Speaker 1: different even to that, because like back to the MySpace
Speaker 1: Facebook kind of analogy, I can have accounts on both,
Speaker 1: so like for example, um, on Twitter, everyone's moving to
Speaker 1: like parlor now, but like there's not that many people
Speaker 1: on parlor yet, and so like I don't really want
Speaker 1: to use it, but I can have an account on both.
Speaker 1: But with Bitcoin, it's like you only can really have
Speaker 1: your money in one place. So it's a little bit different.
Speaker 1: You know, well, you can have investments in other things
Speaker 1: like you can. I mean, there are a lot of
Speaker 1: people that own a lot more Bitcoin than I do,
Speaker 1: and even that may understand bitcoin better than I do
Speaker 1: and may still have, you know, some gambles because they
Speaker 1: have you know, a bet that like in this cycle,
Speaker 1: they think this coin is gonna you know, be higher
Speaker 1: beta and we'll go up or than bitcoin does. And
Speaker 1: that's fine. That's like they're gambling thing. But it's not
Speaker 1: your savings, right, it's not your hard money hedge against
Speaker 1: a financial system that is demonstrated it's unbelievable profligacy and
Speaker 1: lack of restraint over and over and over again, reflating
Speaker 1: the two thousand one you know dot com bust with
Speaker 1: you know, mortgages, and reflating that with the everything bubble,
Speaker 1: and now doing it again with essentially like in gold terms,
Speaker 1: we're in a depression right now. Yeah, I also like
Speaker 1: to think about it like, um it really you have
Speaker 1: to look at like what are the important characteristics of
Speaker 1: bitcoin again? Like I said, right, borderless, permission list, censorship resistant, etcetera.
Speaker 1: And so for another crypto to come along and beat
Speaker 1: it at those characteristics, so okay, it's faster, whatever, it's cheaper, whatever,
Speaker 1: but like in those characteristics get mat or it's like
Speaker 1: almost impossible. And it was really like Andreas on top
Speaker 1: of us that kind of give me this argument. But
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, when bitcoin started, nobody knew about it,
Speaker 1: nobody cared about it. The government let it go by
Speaker 1: an F. A. Hyak right, uh, Nobel Pride Peace Prize
Speaker 1: winner nineteen seventy four. He said that there will never
Speaker 1: be a sound money again until we can take it
Speaker 1: out of the hands of the government. But it has
Speaker 1: to be done in a slide roundabout way, and that's
Speaker 1: exactly what bitcoin did. It was sly and uh, you
Speaker 1: know today we see like all these attacks on networks
Speaker 1: and then double spending and all that, and so now
Speaker 1: if anybody really tried to be decentralized like bitcoin, it
Speaker 1: would be attacked, it would just be shut down. It
Speaker 1: would be almost impossible to ever launch that again. It
Speaker 1: seems like to me anyway, Well, I think decentralization is
Speaker 1: actually the key wenchpin of that line of thinking, which
Speaker 1: is absolutely correct, and it's that Bitcoin was able to
Speaker 1: grow because nobody paid attention to it. It It was able
Speaker 1: to grow three or four years at the beginning completely
Speaker 1: decentralized because everybody was just working on that one. And
Speaker 1: as soon as people realize, oh my gosh, I can
Speaker 1: sucker retail investors and n vcs into giving me money
Speaker 1: from my central lives thing, and I can pre mind
Speaker 1: it and take two thirds of it from my treasury
Speaker 1: or you know, set up all these like jan key
Speaker 1: things that fund to foundation and keep me eating for
Speaker 1: a bunch of years. And buying me mansions and houses
Speaker 1: and private security forces or whatever it is. That's what
Speaker 1: people are gonna do. And not only that in a
Speaker 1: noisy space where now the cats out of the bag,
Speaker 1: the ico bubbles happened. If you have a concept for
Speaker 1: a crypto member wimble coin, or whatever the heck you
Speaker 1: want to scam people with, you better have a huge
Speaker 1: marketing budget, and you better have agencies working in Korea
Speaker 1: and China and Japan and Georgia and Estonia and the
Speaker 1: UK and the US, you know, promoting your crypto like
Speaker 1: justin Sun style, or you're gonna get your lunch eaten
Speaker 1: and and you have every incentive to to lie about
Speaker 1: it and to do all kinds of But even that,
Speaker 1: even that isn't going to save it, because they're never
Speaker 1: going to achieve the level of decentralization. That's right. That's
Speaker 1: why I often talk about the immaculate conception. Just like
Speaker 1: you know, bitcoin, bitcoin is coin came to be, it
Speaker 1: was the first one, and the advantages that it has
Speaker 1: with with its beginnings. It has the moral authority that
Speaker 1: no other coin can have. And it doesn't matter if
Speaker 1: Satoshi comes back and claims his million coins or sells
Speaker 1: them or whatever, like it actually doesn't matter at this point.
Speaker 1: He doesn't own ship because nobody owns it, just like
Speaker 1: nobody owns the Internet. And and it's important for me
Speaker 1: to understand or really even convey that point because to
Speaker 1: like you said, right to to to achieve that level
Speaker 1: of decentralization would be almost impossible today. But the the
Speaker 1: level of the centralization is what allows it to be
Speaker 1: censorship resistant. And um, on this last video I just did,
Speaker 1: I got comments, like, like over a thousand comments, a lot,
Speaker 1: and and the the most the biggest objection you know,
Speaker 1: probably people at least said, oh, but the government is
Speaker 1: just gonna come and kill it, shut it down or whatever.
Speaker 1: And so being that decentralized censorship resistant is what's so important.
Speaker 1: How do you view that? Yeah, so there's two things
Speaker 1: at work here. One is the protocol layer, and then
Speaker 1: the second one is the social layer, which is what
Speaker 1: humans are going to do and what what human incentives
Speaker 1: have been created? Right, so, you know, the protocol doesn't
Speaker 1: make somebody go and hook up you know, a bitcoin
Speaker 1: mining facility to hydroelectric power and you know, bribe a
Speaker 1: Chinese official to give you that power for free. So
Speaker 1: that you can give hash power to the bitcoin network.
Speaker 1: Those are human actions that are being taken because of
Speaker 1: incentives at the social layer, right, So, you know, the
Speaker 1: the idea that a government could go and shut down
Speaker 1: the bitcoin protocol is that ludicrous, is like shutting off
Speaker 1: electricity worldwide. And even then the ledger would survive because
Speaker 1: it lives on hard discs all over. Like the Bitcoin
Speaker 1: ledger doesn't have to be connected to the Internet at
Speaker 1: all times. You could e MP the whole globe and
Speaker 1: as soon as you're back online or as soon as
Speaker 1: you found another way through smoke signals or whatever to
Speaker 1: communicate the next block, you know, you could you could
Speaker 1: keep bitcoin alive. Um. You know, I'm mostly focused on
Speaker 1: the social layer, and that's really what you know, the
Speaker 1: mission of of Swan Bitcoin is all about, you know,
Speaker 1: basically the concept of in the U S specifically, which
Speaker 1: is where we operate, where I live, where I want
Speaker 1: to keep living, or at least want to have the
Speaker 1: option to keep living. I don't want the government to
Speaker 1: take major actions adverse to the growth and eventual success
Speaker 1: of bitcoin. I want it to be as smooth as
Speaker 1: possible for all of us that work in the space
Speaker 1: that are early early purchasers of bitcoin and that are
Speaker 1: holding onto it and helping promote it and helping evangelize
Speaker 1: and educate people and and and bring people towards you know,
Speaker 1: a bright orange future like you are. UM. So that's
Speaker 1: our goal basically is to get ten million bitcoiners to
Speaker 1: find as someone that you know owns some bit of
Speaker 1: bitcoin that's meaningful to them and is educated and passionate
Speaker 1: enough to actually argue for it, whether that me you know,
Speaker 1: calling a congressman or attending a town hall meeting, or
Speaker 1: writing a blog post or fighting it out on Twitter
Speaker 1: or whatever. It is. That combination of having some skin
Speaker 1: in the game and enough knowledge to be a little
Speaker 1: bit dangerous, those ten million people would be just over
Speaker 1: the bar of you know, witness mteleb would call the
Speaker 1: transgent minority that time and time again in a complex system,
Speaker 1: is enough to flip a society uh to doing things
Speaker 1: the way that they want it done. Like the tipping point.
Speaker 1: It's the tipping point. It's it's the same as regulatory capture. UM.
Speaker 1: It's the same as like hallal meat or or all
Speaker 1: of us eating kosher. Just about every packaged food in
Speaker 1: the US is kosher because you know, we're fine with
Speaker 1: eating kosher if you're a non Jew, but if you're Jewish,
Speaker 1: you would only eat kosher. Right, so we all eat kosher.
Speaker 1: And now we see you know, the no no no
Speaker 1: hormones at milk, or now we see free everything or whatever.
Speaker 1: Um So, ten million users, where do you estimate we
Speaker 1: are right now? So that combination of both owning a
Speaker 1: meaningful bit of bitcoin and actually under ending a decent
Speaker 1: bit about it, I think that numbers around a hundred
Speaker 1: thousand people in the US. We got a long way
Speaker 1: to go. Yeah, I think we got about a hundred
Speaker 1: cks to go, you know. Uh So Toshi said, uh,
Speaker 1: it might make sense to get a little bit just
Speaker 1: in case it catches on, and so I recommend that
Speaker 1: on on my video I just did on bitcoin on
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago. At the end, I said, look,
Speaker 1: just put ten bucks in it. Just put a little
Speaker 1: skin in the game, because then all of a sudden
Speaker 1: it's gonna attract your interest and you're gonna start focusing
Speaker 1: on more. You canna start learning about it more. So
Speaker 1: just get a little bit ten bucks. Right, So you
Speaker 1: just dialed in on exactly what our value proposition is
Speaker 1: with Swan Bitcoin. So at swan bitcoin dot com what
Speaker 1: it is, it's it's a decision that you make one time,
Speaker 1: but then it's a recurring purchase. So it's an automatic
Speaker 1: recurring purchase. So you're constantly, just like dollar cost, averaging
Speaker 1: a little bit every week or every month in the
Speaker 1: bitcoin uh and learning about it as you go. So
Speaker 1: that's what we really like about it. As far as
Speaker 1: we can tell, it looks like a little over half
Speaker 1: of our users were the first place that they've ever
Speaker 1: bought bitcoin, and that's really what it's for. Yes, we're
Speaker 1: winning tons of people over from coin based because our
Speaker 1: fees are six lower, but also because you know, it's
Speaker 1: a it's a great place to experience bitcoin for the
Speaker 1: first time. You can do as little as five bucks
Speaker 1: a month with Swan and we have the lowest fees
Speaker 1: in the US for automatic pull from your bank account,
Speaker 1: automatic purchase a bitcoin, free automatic withdrawal to self custody
Speaker 1: if you're ready for that. If you're not ready, we
Speaker 1: use the same crustodian as like Finance and bit tracks
Speaker 1: and all these fancy big companies, and custody with us
Speaker 1: as free as well. So that's interesting how your model
Speaker 1: is is kind of built around helping people get in
Speaker 1: and and uh it does like these automatic payments now
Speaker 1: for people that are a little bit more advanced than investing. No,
Speaker 1: that's dollar cost averaging, um, and so dollar cost averaging
Speaker 1: is one of the best ways to get into a position,
Speaker 1: especially a volatile position. Um. I'm sure you have some
Speaker 1: numbers and stats around that you want to kind of
Speaker 1: dig in and explain with that how that works. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean absolut I mean at it at its basic level,
Speaker 1: if you dollar cost average into an asset, by definition,
Speaker 1: you're committing the same amount of US d uh into
Speaker 1: the purchase each period. So if you buy every week
Speaker 1: and you're always putting a hunter bucks, and when the
Speaker 1: price of bitcoin point is low, you're always buying a
Speaker 1: little bit more bitcoin. When the prices bitcoin is relatively higher,
Speaker 1: you're buying a little bit less. So your entry point,
Speaker 1: you know, over time is always going to be pretty
Speaker 1: darn good. Yeah, um, you know. But I actually think
Speaker 1: the much more important thing, and this is why we
Speaker 1: don't really define the product as d c A because
Speaker 1: d c A is kind of like a trading strategy.
Speaker 1: It's actually much more about the psychological trick of making
Speaker 1: a decision once and therefore having it happen automatically from
Speaker 1: then on. Because the basically for the last fifty years,
Speaker 1: call it since nine when we went off the gold standard,
Speaker 1: there's really been only two assets that most Americans have
Speaker 1: been any good at accumulating value in. One is a
Speaker 1: four O n K because it's automatically taken out your paycheck,
Speaker 1: and the other is a mortgage, which is for almost everybody,
Speaker 1: the only way that the Americans for the most part,
Speaker 1: have any value, and that's because you sign up for mortgage,
Speaker 1: sign the contract, you lose your house. If you don't
Speaker 1: make the payment, you usually find a way to make
Speaker 1: the payment. So those are basically the big buckets of wealth.
Speaker 1: We think bitcoin is important enough to do that in
Speaker 1: the same way, even if it's only like one percent
Speaker 1: of your monthly earnings or five percent or whatever it is,
Speaker 1: you should be thinking about building that position in the
Speaker 1: same way. Yeah, you wise. Yeah, of people, I just
Speaker 1: gotta I'm so passionate about this, man. But ahead they've
Speaker 1: studied this over and over and over again with people
Speaker 1: that trade in assets that they, you know, don't really
Speaker 1: know much about. And this is true for me too.
Speaker 1: I will always before this existed, and I don't buy
Speaker 1: a bitcoin anymore outside of my my swan plan. Uh,
Speaker 1: you're always going to throw down when the price catches
Speaker 1: your attention, and so of people. It's basically everybody that
Speaker 1: hasn't had twenty years of conquering their emotions in the
Speaker 1: market and really knowing you as that they're investing in.
Speaker 1: People in on average will buy high and solo. Yeah,
Speaker 1: because as humans were horrible investors because we run towards
Speaker 1: pleasure and we run away from pain. And so when
Speaker 1: the price goes up, we want pleasure, we jump in,
Speaker 1: and when it goes down, we want to get away
Speaker 1: from pains that we get out were horrible. I made
Speaker 1: a video a while ago now it was shoot might
Speaker 1: have been a year ago, uh, and it was should
Speaker 1: I buy bitcoin now? Or wait? I think was the
Speaker 1: title of it. And basically the concept of that video was,
Speaker 1: you know, because I get asked all the time, should
Speaker 1: I buy bitcoin now? Or is it gonna drop in
Speaker 1: the future? Right? Like what's it gonna do? And so
Speaker 1: the title of videos should I buy it now? Weight?
Speaker 1: And what? I basically what the point of the video was,
Speaker 1: and I I demonstrated through math. Is that even if
Speaker 1: you would have bought at the very peak of two thousand,
Speaker 1: seventeen and twenty thousand or whatever, right, and you would
Speaker 1: have bought every single week until the mota, you know,
Speaker 1: until mid two thousand eighteen, whenever I did the video,
Speaker 1: you would have been in profit. Yeah. And so instead
Speaker 1: of trying to time the market, which nobody can do.
Speaker 1: And so you said it's like a trading strategy, I
Speaker 1: think it's a long term accumulation strategy. But either way, um,
Speaker 1: but instead of trying to time the market, I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's gonna go upro down. So what I
Speaker 1: do is I just buy consistently and then I don't
Speaker 1: have to worry about it anymore. For the average person,
Speaker 1: as you said, it's the best opportunity, not only because
Speaker 1: you beat that volatility so you don't have to worry
Speaker 1: about it the fluctuations, but also the point that you
Speaker 1: brought up is perfect. And I teach this in my
Speaker 1: investing classes, is it has to be automatic systems. Right, yeah,
Speaker 1: and so h you you put both you give them
Speaker 1: an automatic way and dollar cost averaging together. I mean
Speaker 1: it's it's a perfect system. Yeah. It seems. I mean,
Speaker 1: we have insane devotion from our users, and you know,
Speaker 1: most of our new users come from referrals, as much
Speaker 1: as I'd love it to be from appearances on awesome
Speaker 1: shows like yours, like, the majority comes from people that
Speaker 1: use it and recommend it to their friends. And that's
Speaker 1: always our north star. Our goal is to always be
Speaker 1: the top recommendation of bit cooinners when their friends ask
Speaker 1: them where should they buy? Yeah, well, I've definitely been
Speaker 1: thrown it out quite a bit, and I will continue
Speaker 1: to um where where are people able to buy from?
Speaker 1: Is it only in the US or all over the
Speaker 1: world or what? Yeah? So it's US only, US only
Speaker 1: including Puerto Rico? Is that going to change sometimes? Soon?
Speaker 1: Not this year? There's just so much rodehe here in
Speaker 1: the States. And I think, you know, again, with the
Speaker 1: company's mission being to head off government intervention by recruiting
Speaker 1: this many bitcoiners, like any other government coming out against
Speaker 1: bitcoin doesn't really matter. It'll just set that little government back,
Speaker 1: the hedgemon, the one with the military and you know,
Speaker 1: the global system depending on their currency crank cracking down
Speaker 1: and turning on or turning off on ramps or you know,
Speaker 1: otherwise penalizing bitcoiners or trying to tax bitcoiners and give
Speaker 1: it to boomers as they're spending the retirement money or
Speaker 1: whatever they're trying to do. Uh, that's what we want
Speaker 1: to head off. And it doesn't it's not binary. There's
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that could be done that we're
Speaker 1: just going to try to get out in front of
Speaker 1: and and be actively involved in thwarting that would be
Speaker 1: adversarial to bit point in the coinners. I mean, it's
Speaker 1: a great mission statement and I love it, and uh
Speaker 1: that's that's why I do what I do. And and
Speaker 1: we're all on the same page right, which is trying
Speaker 1: to as you said earlier, like evangelize about it right,
Speaker 1: tell people about it, um, and uh, encourage people. Maybe
Speaker 1: it makes sense just to get a little bit right. Yeah, Well,
Speaker 1: if you want to, if you want to get your
Speaker 1: friends involved, and we got to set this up for you. Um,
Speaker 1: if you're sold on Swan and I gotta get you,
Speaker 1: uh trying to plan. But you can go to swan
Speaker 1: bitcoin dot com slash in list and this is basically
Speaker 1: where you sign up to get your own custom u
Speaker 1: r L and your own custom landing page where your
Speaker 1: friends can come and see your smiling face and something
Speaker 1: that you say about bitcoin and why you why you
Speaker 1: think Swan is a good place to buy um. We
Speaker 1: have great people like Max Kaiser and Preston Tish and
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of people, hundreds of normal people that
Speaker 1: are non media people as well, just using that that
Speaker 1: ref link and and letting people come and experience Swan
Speaker 1: on their recommendation and you can either you know, pocket
Speaker 1: those those stats, pocket that bitcoin. We do a quarter
Speaker 1: point for three years for everybody that you bring um
Speaker 1: or or you can donate it and you know, if
Speaker 1: you're not comfortable and you just kind of like wanna
Speaker 1: have people show up. We also have a couple of
Speaker 1: organizations that we that we donate to for people that
Speaker 1: don't wanna you know, earn money from their network and
Speaker 1: just want to get people using Swan. You can you
Speaker 1: can donate to either BTC pay Server which is Swan
Speaker 1: bit cooin dot com slash BTC pay spread that around,
Speaker 1: or Human Rights Foundation, which is Alex C. Gladstein in
Speaker 1: their career doing great work and very very pro bitcoin
Speaker 1: that Swan Bitcoin dot com slash HRF and and anybody
Speaker 1: that signs up through those links or any of these
Speaker 1: rough codes. Um, you know gets ten dollars a free
Speaker 1: bitcoin when they become a member, which is nice too. Yeah.
Speaker 1: I do like both of those uh nonprofits as you're
Speaker 1: talking about alex and BTC pay Both both could causes
Speaker 1: for sure, definitely both doing especially what hr E is doing.
Speaker 1: Man such good work and and uh that is exactly
Speaker 1: why bitcoin, what HRH is doing, right, It's like that's
Speaker 1: why we Yeah, you're right, Yeah, I mean, you know,
Speaker 1: Human Rights Foundation is always speaking out about you know,
Speaker 1: rights of the individual and the importance of separation of
Speaker 1: money and state, and you know, really coming out hard
Speaker 1: against you know, surveillance technologies and all this spying stuff
Speaker 1: that's going on with different governments, including our own. Um,
Speaker 1: so yeah, I can't can't speak more highly of those guys.
Speaker 1: Yeah cool. So, um you gave out the name was
Speaker 1: a swan bitcoin dot com m hm and uh cool?
Speaker 1: Where would people go to find out more about you
Speaker 1: and follow along on your journey? Yeah? Sure, I think
Speaker 1: you know, Swan Bitcoin on Twitter is probably the most
Speaker 1: active channel that we use, but we also have two
Speaker 1: shows that we produce on on YouTube and and have podcasts.
Speaker 1: So Swan Signal Live is every Wednesday. You can go
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash swan signal um and in that
Speaker 1: one every week we pair two people to come on
Speaker 1: and talk about bitcoin, macro tech, etcetera. Uh, I believe
Speaker 1: that we're having a guy, this Mark Moss guy. I
Speaker 1: think it's coming on on next Wednesday. So if you
Speaker 1: give this episode up, if get this episode up in
Speaker 1: the in the next couple of days, Uh, Mark, I
Speaker 1: believe you're on on the So I think it's eleven
Speaker 1: am Pacific on the fifteenth, and you can watch live
Speaker 1: on Twitter YouTube or just catch it later on our
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel. And then you know, you do something
Speaker 1: that I think is probably more important, frankly than a
Speaker 1: lot of the bitcoin podcasts that I often know on,
Speaker 1: which is reaching out to people that are in adjacent
Speaker 1: areas of interest. Because you have a broad audience that's
Speaker 1: interested in finance and you talk to them about bitcoin.
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna see a lot more of that
Speaker 1: over time. We're trying an experiment in that we just
Speaker 1: started a show called sounds like a nineties Man. It's
Speaker 1: called Ugly Duckling in the Bright Orange Future. So yeah,
Speaker 1: so that one is actually about gen x music and
Speaker 1: bitcoin and uh so that's that's another playlist on on
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash Swan Signal. We just posted our
Speaker 1: third episode today. But it's me and my real life
Speaker 1: brother who's a longtime musician and former local rock star
Speaker 1: and Seattle with a bunch of musician friends, and you know,
Speaker 1: we'll get people like you to come on and talk
Speaker 1: about a little bit of music, a little bit of
Speaker 1: like eighties and nineties culture and how it sort of
Speaker 1: threads through and sets the table for bitcoin and what's
Speaker 1: going on today, and then we'll hit a little bitcoin
Speaker 1: towards the end of the show. Yeah, that's interesting. I
Speaker 1: like that. You know, you talked about um, you know,
Speaker 1: your mission swan bitcoin and really to to to market,
Speaker 1: to evangelize, get you know, get people aware of it
Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm a marketing guy, always have been, I
Speaker 1: still am, and I love it. I I eat, sleep
Speaker 1: and breathe marketing and business and all that stuff. But anyway,
Speaker 1: it's important to understand, like in marketing, like you have
Speaker 1: like this customer journey, and so you have to understand
Speaker 1: where customers are in their journey, and so at the
Speaker 1: top of the funnel, they're not even aware they have
Speaker 1: a problem yet, and then they have awareness of a problem,
Speaker 1: but they don't have a solution. Then they have a solution,
Speaker 1: but they haven't figured out which one is the best one,
Speaker 1: and then they choose a solution. Right, So, like I
Speaker 1: think exactly kind of what you said with my channel
Speaker 1: is really about like people don't even know they have
Speaker 1: a problem yet, and so it's really about like, hey,
Speaker 1: we have a problem here, and then like hey, here's
Speaker 1: a potential solution, and just trying to to work well
Speaker 1: down that. But but I think anyway what you said,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a fan. I've watched a bunch of
Speaker 1: your videos, and I think of your podcast is, uh,
Speaker 1: it's getting people to think about like what is money
Speaker 1: a lot, which I think it's not a coincidence that,
Speaker 1: you know, probably the last five good bitcoin books that
Speaker 1: have come out, you know, the first few chapters are
Speaker 1: always just about getting people to recognize like what is money?
Speaker 1: And have you really thought about money? Right? And why
Speaker 1: why do we have this unsound money for the first
Speaker 1: time in human history? Like this is the longest it's lasted,
Speaker 1: It's or a hundred years into this fiad experiment since
Speaker 1: the creation of the fed. Everybody needs the message right now, right, Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, if there was ever a time in history
Speaker 1: we have people marching burning cities down. They're piste off,
Speaker 1: but like they don't really understand why. They don't understand
Speaker 1: why they're so like, why is there such a divide?
Speaker 1: Why is there such inequality? It all comes down to
Speaker 1: the money. Yeah, and it's also you know, you can't
Speaker 1: un see it once you see it, like the matrix. Right,
Speaker 1: you also recognize that whether it's happening consciously or subconsciously,
Speaker 1: and I guarantee for some of these people pulling strings
Speaker 1: for the Fiat system that it's happening consciously. But regardless,
Speaker 1: the incentive exists to get people that don't have their
Speaker 1: hands in the honeypot, that aren't close to the money printer,
Speaker 1: that aren't close to d C in New York and
Speaker 1: the government financial complex. They don't realize it's in those
Speaker 1: people's incentive to create strife and get people to fight
Speaker 1: amongst each other over other issues unrelated to their theft
Speaker 1: of our savings. Of course, it's like a magician, Hey
Speaker 1: look over here, and then I'm doing this over here
Speaker 1: right exactly. Well, recognize that you're being played understand money,
Speaker 1: and you might just find out that Mark has been
Speaker 1: right this whole time, and you should be buying some bitcoin. Well,
Speaker 1: I love your mission statement. I'm I'm I'm on the
Speaker 1: same same mission, and I want to I want to
Speaker 1: help push it as much as I can, and we'll
Speaker 1: be a lined up on that, you know, just real quick,
Speaker 1: you know for me, I I told you, But you know,
Speaker 1: in in two thousand and eight, I had made a
Speaker 1: bunch of money. I was started buying bank owned repos
Speaker 1: in southern California and flipping them and done tons of
Speaker 1: them and businesses fortune exit. But in two thousand and eight,
Speaker 1: I got completely wiped out, and uh, I was like,
Speaker 1: what the heck, Like I gotta figure this whole system out.
Speaker 1: And the more I started to learn, the more disillusioned,
Speaker 1: if you will, I became like this system is just
Speaker 1: completely screwed. And and uh I saw that what was
Speaker 1: coming was like there was gonna be this war. And
Speaker 1: I remember telling my wife, like I don't want to
Speaker 1: be a freedom fighter, Like I'm out, Like I'll be
Speaker 1: on a beach in Nicaragua in a hammock, surfing and
Speaker 1: fishing all day, Like I'm not gonna be a freedom fighter.
Speaker 1: And it was when I found out about bitcoin. I
Speaker 1: was like, we finally have a tool we can use.
Speaker 1: I can support bitcoin if I can tell the world
Speaker 1: about bitcoin, and everybody used bitcoin, that's how we win.
Speaker 1: And I don't have to be a freedom fighter. It's
Speaker 1: a peaceful, peaceful opt out. And so it was ever
Speaker 1: since I recognized that I was a switch. And so anyway,
Speaker 1: that's my mission to tell as many people as I
Speaker 1: can to become sovereign and become free. And so we're
Speaker 1: we're on the same team's exit the system without exiting physically,
Speaker 1: but not just exit the system as in like um
Speaker 1: bailing out of the system. What we do is we're
Speaker 1: taking their power. We're starving them. We're starving and and
Speaker 1: it's because it's fractional reserve. It's exponential, right, So one
Speaker 1: dollar in the bank creates ten or a hundred or
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars, but one dollar out takes hundreds or
Speaker 1: thousands or tens of thousands out. And so anyway, yeah,
Speaker 1: so cool, Well we'll keep we'll keep pushing and we'll
Speaker 1: do more content together. And I appreciate you coming on. No,
Speaker 1: it's it's really my pleasure. This is a super fun
Speaker 1: conversation and you made fort some minutes go by real fast.
Speaker 1: Yeah cool, all right, we'll talk again soon. Sounds by