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Speaker 1: Everyone, Welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptor Show.

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Speaker 1: Today I am sitting down and joined by Corey Clipston.

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Speaker 1: He has another bitcoiner he is, uh, got a pretty

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Speaker 1: wide range of background, really really interesting person and I

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Speaker 1: can't wait to dive in with him. Corey, welcome to

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Speaker 1: the show. Mark, thanks for having me on. It's it's

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Speaker 1: good to meet another so cal bitcoiner here on video anyway,

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Speaker 1: and I look forward to hanging out in person at

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Speaker 1: some point. Yeah. Thanks, Uh, Yeah, I love talking bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: If you watched any of my shows, you know that already.

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Speaker 1: But Corey, you know so just for everybody watching, want

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Speaker 1: you give us a little bit of a background, just

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Speaker 1: who you are, a couple of minutes on who you

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Speaker 1: are and where you've been. Yeah, absolutely so. Right now today,

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Speaker 1: I'm the founder and CEO of a company called Swan

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin swan bitcoin dot com. Uh. Going back a few decades,

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Speaker 1: I started out my career working at Microsoft. Was at

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Speaker 1: Morgan Stanley for a little while doing like high net

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Speaker 1: worth client marketing UM, and that was just before business school.

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Speaker 1: Went to University of Chicago, got an NBA in finance

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Speaker 1: and entrepreneurship. There after that was that McKenzie and Company,

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Speaker 1: the management consulting company out in their New York office,

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Speaker 1: did private equity consulting with my own firm out of

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Speaker 1: Chicago for a couple of years before another little stint,

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Speaker 1: and management consulting through the downturn like eight to eleven.

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Speaker 1: It was probably about two thousand nine two ten that

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Speaker 1: I really caught the the early stage tech bug and

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Speaker 1: really decided I wanted to spend the rest of my

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Speaker 1: career building startups, investing in startups, and being in kind

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Speaker 1: of a startup ecosystem. Was kind of sick of fixing

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Speaker 1: other people's problems and consulting in private equity and cleaning

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Speaker 1: up their messes, and I decided I wanted to make

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Speaker 1: my own mistakes and build things. So I went to

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Speaker 1: Google for two years really just to kind of do

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Speaker 1: b school apart to the Internet version, and learned as

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Speaker 1: much as I could. Fen met something like fifteen vcs

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Speaker 1: and founders, was mentoring startups, organizing tech meetups and things

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Speaker 1: like that out of Chicago and l A and UH.

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Speaker 1: By summer of about six months after moving my family

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Speaker 1: to Los Angeles, I was confident enough that I could

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Speaker 1: leave Google, jump in with two feet start advising investing

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Speaker 1: and looking for startups to help operate. And that's what

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Speaker 1: I've been doing for the last seven years. So you've

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Speaker 1: been helping startups operator get start up, I guess, and

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Speaker 1: then you finally decided to take the plunge and started

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Speaker 1: up on your own. Yeah, well I did take the plunge.

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Speaker 1: From late thirteen to late fifteen, I was on the

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Speaker 1: senior team of an ad tech startup that did pretty

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Speaker 1: well and raised a bunch of money and at a

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Speaker 1: bunch of vcs and kind of went through that thing,

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Speaker 1: and I came out of that kind of combining prowess

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Speaker 1: and fundraising, which I've been doing, you know, off and

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Speaker 1: on for sixteen years now, and strategy from all the

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Speaker 1: work that I've done in consulting and uh basically worked

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Speaker 1: with something like thirty CEOs over the next four years

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Speaker 1: on strategy and fundraising, helped raise over a quarter billion

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Speaker 1: dollars across twenty companies and thirty rounds, and and also

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Speaker 1: continued to make angel investment throughout. So I built myself

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Speaker 1: a nice little like a name and some experience and

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Speaker 1: kind of got my uh, you know, my master's degree

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Speaker 1: in in startups and got to the point where you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been kicking around ideas for a while of something

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Speaker 1: to start and had some fits and starts of things

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Speaker 1: outside the bitcoin space, and nothing really you know, got

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Speaker 1: my attention and passion to the point where this did

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Speaker 1: and this, uh you know, bitcoin grabbed me, never let go.

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Speaker 1: And once I had the idea for for what I'm

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Speaker 1: doing in the space, now it grabbed me and never

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Speaker 1: let go and it's just become a reality because I

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Speaker 1: couldn't do anything else. Yeah, I know, I know what

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Speaker 1: you're talking about. So, um, just for everybody that's watching,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go through a bunch of information and um,

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Speaker 1: if you are new to bitcoin, um, you probably have

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch of objections in your head. We're gonna

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Speaker 1: run through those towards the end to make sure you

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Speaker 1: stick around for that. But um, Corey, So it's interesting

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Speaker 1: that you know, you've been through all these different businesses,

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Speaker 1: the ins and outs of it, inside the belly of

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Speaker 1: the beast almost so to speak. Right, like lit working

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Speaker 1: in the financial system you had mentioned, like Mackenzie Morgan,

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Speaker 1: stan Stanley. I mean, they're like as as deep as

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Speaker 1: you can get kind of right. Yeah, absolutely, it was

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Speaker 1: right in the thick of it. I was even spent

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Speaker 1: a lot of that time at Mackenzie working in Financial

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Speaker 1: Institutions group and putting together you know, financial models for

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Speaker 1: new products for financial firms things like that. Yeah, so,

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Speaker 1: you know, I find it interesting because you have like

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Speaker 1: this very deep background in finance and then you also

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Speaker 1: have a deep background in tech at the same time. So, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, bitcoin is a lot of different things, and

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Speaker 1: it's definitely finance and tech. Right, So when did you

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Speaker 1: first hear about bitcoin and when did you decide to

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Speaker 1: finally get in? I mean, even someone that knows as

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Speaker 1: much as you do, like tell me how that journey

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Speaker 1: worked out. Well, this is why I would say, like,

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Speaker 1: if you felt like, you know, you heard about bitcoin

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Speaker 1: in twenty or twenty eighteen and didn't get in or

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Speaker 1: got it, you know, heard about it last year and

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Speaker 1: still didn't get in, it's absolutely not too late. In fact,

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Speaker 1: every day that you wait is only going to hurt

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Speaker 1: you in the future, because the chances are this thing

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Speaker 1: becomes ubiquitous and we all end up pricing goods and

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Speaker 1: services globally in bitcoin, you know, So like the earlier

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Speaker 1: you can start learning about it and understanding it. The better.

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Speaker 1: So that's my first bit of imploring you to take

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Speaker 1: this seriously. It's kind of like the old proverb the

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Speaker 1: best time to plan a three is twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: Second best time is today exactly exactly. Yeah, um, you

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Speaker 1: know so, so don't feel bad if it didn't take

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Speaker 1: the first time. It's the story of of people that

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Speaker 1: are heavy in the bitcoin today, the bitcoin founders, even

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Speaker 1: the coders that that work on Bitcoin Corps, the people

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Speaker 1: that write about it and have podcasts. Like, most of

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Speaker 1: these people missed it the first time around. I was

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Speaker 1: at a tech conference in uh January and uh, and

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Speaker 1: somebody had a blockchain wallet and was given away fifty

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Speaker 1: dollars for everybody that installed a blockchain wallet. And I

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Speaker 1: got my bitcoin on my blockchain wallet, and I proceeded

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Speaker 1: to not read the white paper, not go down the

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Speaker 1: rabbit hole, and lose the private key. Oh and you know.

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Speaker 1: And then in December, I was at a Buddies holiday

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Speaker 1: party up in Santa Barbara and uh, he knew knows

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Speaker 1: what I do, and he asked me to help him

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Speaker 1: basically put together like a marketing deck for a series

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Speaker 1: I'll see that had stakes of his that he had

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Speaker 1: in in eight different startups, and one of them was

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Speaker 1: Balagi's company, which is like early bitcoin mining attempt, and

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Speaker 1: another one was ripple Um, which is trash but you

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Speaker 1: know as a company, but you know, And so I

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Speaker 1: had another opportunity. I was like reading up on bitcoin

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Speaker 1: over the holidays and putting together these slides for him,

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Speaker 1: and like it still didn't take. I was so busy

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Speaker 1: with other things and other clients and investments and things

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Speaker 1: like that, Like it just didn't didn't click. It wasn't

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Speaker 1: until I'm a pretty social animal. I like to organize things.

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Speaker 1: I like to recruit people, like like to throw parties.

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Speaker 1: I like to you know, you know, just basically like

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Speaker 1: throw conferences. Like I always organizing people. And I take

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Speaker 1: my cues a lot more than I probably should from

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Speaker 1: what's going on around me. And it was only the

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Speaker 1: noise of the price run up in bitcoin and ethereum

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Speaker 1: and then all of these people jumping over into I

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Speaker 1: c O projects in spring of that really caught my attention.

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Speaker 1: And it was only by luck that one of the

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Speaker 1: first kindly say alt coin fund founders, Uh, this is

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Speaker 1: who running a crypto fund? Uh? And I guess he

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Speaker 1: liked me, and he knew what he was doing with

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Speaker 1: all the I c O crap insisted that I read

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Speaker 1: digital gold first and that I buy some bitcoin first.

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Speaker 1: So thank goodness for that gentleman, who's another guy here

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Speaker 1: in so cal forced me to at least start there,

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Speaker 1: and I think that gave me just enough of like

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Speaker 1: a head start on bitcoin to make what what people

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Speaker 1: call your am I allowed to use off color language

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Speaker 1: on this show, Mark Sure, go for it. Okay. Well,

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Speaker 1: a lot of people in bitcoin refer to a shipcoin

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Speaker 1: horse shoe, which is basically most people do start in

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Speaker 1: the space in bitcoin, and then you basically have a

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Speaker 1: shipcoin journey where you're like, go and explore everything else

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Speaker 1: because why wouldn't you. You're a curious person. And eventually

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Speaker 1: you finish your horse shoe journey and come back to bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: Thank goodness for this guy getting me started. My my

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Speaker 1: shipcoin horse shoe only took about ten or eleven months,

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Speaker 1: and by then I was actually already working full time

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Speaker 1: in the space. I had taken over as president and

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Speaker 1: chief investment officer of a crypto fund UH in early

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Speaker 1: eighteen terrible timing, but yeah, by like March or April

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Speaker 1: of that year, I wanted nothing to do with any

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Speaker 1: of the I c O s or the cryptos, and

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Speaker 1: I saw no value in any of them. And I

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Speaker 1: saw bitcoin as a money that would you know, trend

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Speaker 1: toward one and the hardest money ever and all the

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Speaker 1: things that you talk about in your videos. And so

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Speaker 1: I basically spent about six months trying to extricate myself

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Speaker 1: from the situation of having hired a dozen people and

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Speaker 1: uh and having responsibilities and etcetera. And uh, yes, since

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Speaker 1: I left completely by the beginning of August or late August,

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Speaker 1: and basically spent the next six months trying to figure

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Speaker 1: out what to do in bitcoin. I really wanted to

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Speaker 1: do something in this space, and I finally figured it out.

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Speaker 1: And it's the most obvious thing that you could possibly

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Speaker 1: think of, the new business that you finally decided to

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Speaker 1: jump into. It is the most obvious thing. It's the

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Speaker 1: most obvious thing that you could possibly think of to

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Speaker 1: do with bitcoin, yeah, which is selling it sell bitcoin. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And it's it's so funny. And this is again, this

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Speaker 1: is that this is like having the wrong mental framework.

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Speaker 1: You know, I got caught up with all these uh

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Speaker 1: these all coins thinking that you know, maybe bitcoins my

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Speaker 1: Space and Facebook is around the corner, or maybe it's

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Speaker 1: like tech and there's all these other things that can

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Speaker 1: kind of do different versions of the same thing, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, no, actually, bitcoin's money, and tech enables it,

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Speaker 1: and it's this protocol and there's some other cool things.

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Speaker 1: So it's like a new kind of money. But at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day, it's money. It's the hardest money,

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Speaker 1: the soundest money that's ever existed, and all these other

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Speaker 1: things combined may have a you know, a maximum market

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Speaker 1: opportunity of something like two orders of magnitude smaller than bitcoin.

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Speaker 1: So like, if you take the current crop of all

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Speaker 1: all coins that exist ethereum included, you know, their upside

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Speaker 1: combined is like one percent of what bitcoins upside is. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's there's there's so many different ways to

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Speaker 1: look at it. Um. I just made a tweet yesterday

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Speaker 1: that is probably the biggest viral tweet I've ever put out.

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Speaker 1: I can't believe it. And I basically just said I

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Speaker 1: was just thinking last night and I was just like,

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Speaker 1: you know, what if bitcoin never goes up in value,

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Speaker 1: but it keeps my value, keeps my my store of

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Speaker 1: value up within aation like I'll be fine with it.

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Speaker 1: And I just tweeted that out and uh, I mean

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Speaker 1: it's like like the biggest viral tweet I've ever put out,

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Speaker 1: it seems like. But the point being, I'm not in

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Speaker 1: it to get to the moon. And so you talk

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Speaker 1: about other all, it's like, uh, they don't they don't

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Speaker 1: have as much upside? Well do do we really care

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Speaker 1: about the upside? Like? What is it that bitcoin feet like?

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Speaker 1: For me? Anyway, it's kind of like, you know, the

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Speaker 1: features that bitcoin gives us being borderless, permission list, censorship resistant, immutable,

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Speaker 1: that's what makes it special to me. And some people

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Speaker 1: in the US don't care. But if you're in Iran

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Speaker 1: or Venezuela, you probably do care. Um. And so for me,

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Speaker 1: I mean I would say, maybe some alts give you

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Speaker 1: better returns right now, it's like penny stocks. It's like

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Speaker 1: chasing penny stocks, right, but none of them, I guess.

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Speaker 1: I guess the argument I get into with with crypto

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Speaker 1: crypto alts is, uh, what are the features you're trying

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Speaker 1: to optimize? Force? So people tell me, oh, but this

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Speaker 1: is this one's faster, and I'm like, do people want

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Speaker 1: faster money? Well? I mean, I think at the end

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Speaker 1: of the day, I think we're talking about the same

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Speaker 1: thing on different time frames and with different strategies and

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Speaker 1: different people. So if you're a professional trader and you're

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Speaker 1: a short term time horizon, and I have a lot

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Speaker 1: of professional trader friends, and I don't begrudge them whatsoever

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Speaker 1: for increasing their net worth by trading cryptos, like this

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Speaker 1: is the easiest thing that you could possibly do. To

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Speaker 1: look at these inefficient markets, with these pump and dump

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Speaker 1: schemes constantly going out, and like insider information makes you rich,

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Speaker 1: like absolutely by all means, get on key base and

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Speaker 1: discord and telegram and call your friends and Nike a

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Speaker 1: Tunnelly or look at your technical analysis. But everybody else

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Speaker 1: that's not a professional trader and hasn't been a professional

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Speaker 1: trader for the last decade or two, You, like all

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Speaker 1: other humans, are going to buy high and sell low

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Speaker 1: because you're gonna find out about it and get excited

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Speaker 1: about it when it's finally starting to go up and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna buy you know, compound or whatever at eight

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Speaker 1: and it's gonna go down the next day or whatever. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, So you just want to be accumulating the

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Speaker 1: thing that's going to be around for a long time.

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Speaker 1: If something in this space is going to work, it's

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Speaker 1: gonna be bitcoin. And that's the only one that has

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Speaker 1: an opportunity to actually be global money out of everything

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Speaker 1: in this space. And really these arguments are much more

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Speaker 1: of like vintage argument. And most bitcoiners that are serious,

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Speaker 1: that spend a lot of time in the space, as

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Speaker 1: I'm sure you know the people you talk to, but

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Speaker 1: your audience would know this too, they're not actually spending

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Speaker 1: any time talking about alts anymore. Our conversations are about governments.

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Speaker 1: Our conversations about financial infrastructure, our conferstrates. Our conversations are

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Speaker 1: about liquidity, privacy technologies, payments technologies. They're about fidelity, they're

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Speaker 1: about square, They're about visa, They're about you know about

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Speaker 1: non k y C bitcoin, you know, like how can

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Speaker 1: you buy bitcoin without having to have it, you know,

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Speaker 1: on the grid, that kind of thing. Ye. Yeah, And

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Speaker 1: if anyone watching my videos, they know that's all I

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Speaker 1: spend my time talking about. I'm curious. So having been

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Speaker 1: in tech, in finance, UM and all these different industries

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Speaker 1: and now you're building a company in this space. Now

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Speaker 1: you're building you're not building on bitcoin. You're not building

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Speaker 1: on the code, but you're building a business that revolves

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Speaker 1: around bitcoin. And I'm curious how that is to build

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Speaker 1: a business, um with someone that has kind of experienced

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Speaker 1: that you do so um dealing with banks, dealing with uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, fundraising, if you guys are doing fundraising, and

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Speaker 1: just uh, is there this stigma that's making it difficult

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Speaker 1: to grow a business around bitcoin or does it seem

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Speaker 1: pretty easy? Well, there's obviously a lot more easy money

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Speaker 1: slashing around when you can create your own token, and

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Speaker 1: so that's why you see a lot of these legacy

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Speaker 1: like raises, like still having a lot of money to

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Speaker 1: slash around, and it's gonna take a while for you know,

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Speaker 1: the market to swallow all of that malinvestment and all

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Speaker 1: the inefficiency. So you have you know, crap like Cardano

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Speaker 1: and Tron still putting out videos and marketing programs and

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Speaker 1: things like that because they're raised a hundred million dollars

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Speaker 1: and have this big treasure or whatever. But at the

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Speaker 1: end of the day, eventually that will get spent in

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Speaker 1: an old results. I'm more I'm more talking about like, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know at the bank, do they say, oh, you're

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Speaker 1: a bitcoin business, we can't accept your bank account. Uh no, no,

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Speaker 1: there's there There are enough there are enough banks that

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Speaker 1: will work with bitcoin companies that it's not really an

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Speaker 1: issue anymore. I mean, you've got you've got plenty of

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Speaker 1: partners to choose from at this point. Okay, So as

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Speaker 1: far as building a business on a revolves around bitcoin today,

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Speaker 1: a couple years ago it wasn't. But today you feel

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Speaker 1: it's a kind of not too much different to building

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Speaker 1: in any other type of business. So let's look at

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Speaker 1: it through the lens that I know really well, which

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Speaker 1: is like startups. And so you know, one of the

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Speaker 1: challenges that you certainly have is in the fundraising arena.

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Speaker 1: And you know, basically the problem that you have is

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Speaker 1: you're looking for investors that care enough about bitcoin and

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Speaker 1: know enough about bitcoin to think that your company is

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Speaker 1: a good bet. But by definition they know enough about

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Speaker 1: bitcoin to be judging a startup investment versus their expectations

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Speaker 1: for bitcoin as an asset. Their total rate is basically

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Speaker 1: their expectations of you know, what they think bitcoin is

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Speaker 1: going to do over the life of your startup, and

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Speaker 1: so basically that that makes it very difficult for most

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Speaker 1: bitcoin startups to raise money. You know, because of my

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Speaker 1: background and extensive network, it's not been an issue for us,

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Speaker 1: but I do see that problem for a lot of

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Speaker 1: other companies in the space, and that's why I and

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Speaker 1: and three friends of mine have gotten together and we

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Speaker 1: started a fund called bitcoiner Ventures earlier this year. And

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Speaker 1: basically the goal there is, you know, while the percentage

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Speaker 1: of people who would invest in a bitcoin start up

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Speaker 1: maybe small, the denominator of people that you can pull

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Speaker 1: from should be the largest of any vertical and technology

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Speaker 1: because there's so many people around the world. So our

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Speaker 1: our goal basically is just aggregate like a few thousand

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Speaker 1: people that might raise their hand and write a small

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Speaker 1: check into a bitcoin startup and do those through syndicates.

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Speaker 1: And we successfully did a funding for Unchained Capital out

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Speaker 1: of Austin, which does really really cool stuff in the

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Speaker 1: bitcoin space, including bitcoin backed loans and and multi sig

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Speaker 1: custody setups and things like that. So we cut our

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Speaker 1: first check for them in in May towards late May

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Speaker 1: um and we're hoping to do another deal this fall

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Speaker 1: out of bitcoin Ventures. Nice. That's good. Continue to help

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Speaker 1: the ecosystem grow. Oh so, um, I'm just curious. I

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Speaker 1: wanted to dive back in for a second before we

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Speaker 1: move on. UM, So again you had kind of talked

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Speaker 1: about how, or maybe you told me before we started recording,

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Speaker 1: but you were saying how you got into bitcoin but

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Speaker 1: you thought it was just like a tech play, um,

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Speaker 1: and you were buying it, but you didn't really understand

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Speaker 1: what it was. Your eyes hadn't really been opened up.

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Speaker 1: You haven't been read build whatever you wanna call it. UM,

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Speaker 1: tell me about that, like what what what? What was it?

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Speaker 1: What was your old view that was wrong? And then

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Speaker 1: how did you come to look at it differently? I mean,

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Speaker 1: I'll just come back to the you know, the my

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Speaker 1: Space Facebook analogy is probably the easiest one. Like you know,

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Speaker 1: you you get into something in technology and the first

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Speaker 1: thing you think of is something better going to come

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Speaker 1: along soon and disrupt this. So you may be an

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Speaker 1: investor in Friendster and then you just get your lunch

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Speaker 1: eaten by my Space and you think you have the

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Speaker 1: right one because you're at my Space, But then Facebook

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Speaker 1: comes along and just like destroys you. So that's actually

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Speaker 1: probably the I would I would say, I mean, at

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Speaker 1: least the top two. UM, you know, complain not complains,

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Speaker 1: but objections that I hear, um is that but there's

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Speaker 1: a thousand other cryptos and and and exactly what you said,

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Speaker 1: Bitcoin is gonna be the old mice brace and um

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Speaker 1: all though, so how do you look at that? Now?

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Speaker 1: So let me let me use this. So there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of arguments for why it can only be Bitcoin,

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Speaker 1: but I'll almost even more easily say why it can't

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Speaker 1: be any other one because let's say that some alt

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Speaker 1: coin becomes dominant, why would you stop there? Let's say

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Speaker 1: it becomes dominant because of some feature, and and people

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Speaker 1: make the argument and it flippings, as they say, if

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Speaker 1: it flippings bitcoin, why would you stop there? So now

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Speaker 1: it's Ethereum, well why not eos? Why not some other thing?

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Speaker 1: Why not you know, cosmos? Why not whatever? You know?

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Speaker 1: Like there will always be people. So basically, this concept

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Speaker 1: of of a shelling point, which is basically where you

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Speaker 1: know the second order estimation of what you think other

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Speaker 1: people will think, ends up that we all basically think

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Speaker 1: it's the same thing. So it's like, you know, these

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Speaker 1: things exist where you're like, uh, you know, let's meet

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Speaker 1: in New York tomorrow, but you don't give any other information,

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Speaker 1: like where would you meet, right, And you know, basically

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Speaker 1: the shelling point is grand Central Station in the Grand

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Speaker 1: Hall at noon, because that's what most people would think, right,

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Speaker 1: And so it's like the point that where most people

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Speaker 1: are are being concentrated around, which I which I agree with,

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Speaker 1: But you know, I think Bitcoin is a little bit

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Speaker 1: different even to that, because like back to the MySpace

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Speaker 1: Facebook kind of analogy, I can have accounts on both,

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Speaker 1: so like for example, um, on Twitter, everyone's moving to

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Speaker 1: like parlor now, but like there's not that many people

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Speaker 1: on parlor yet, and so like I don't really want

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Speaker 1: to use it, but I can have an account on both.

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Speaker 1: But with Bitcoin, it's like you only can really have

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Speaker 1: your money in one place. So it's a little bit different.

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Speaker 1: You know, well, you can have investments in other things

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Speaker 1: like you can. I mean, there are a lot of

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Speaker 1: people that own a lot more Bitcoin than I do,

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Speaker 1: and even that may understand bitcoin better than I do

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Speaker 1: and may still have, you know, some gambles because they

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Speaker 1: have you know, a bet that like in this cycle,

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Speaker 1: they think this coin is gonna you know, be higher

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Speaker 1: beta and we'll go up or than bitcoin does. And

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Speaker 1: that's fine. That's like they're gambling thing. But it's not

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Speaker 1: your savings, right, it's not your hard money hedge against

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Speaker 1: a financial system that is demonstrated it's unbelievable profligacy and

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Speaker 1: lack of restraint over and over and over again, reflating

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Speaker 1: the two thousand one you know dot com bust with

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Speaker 1: you know, mortgages, and reflating that with the everything bubble,

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Speaker 1: and now doing it again with essentially like in gold terms,

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Speaker 1: we're in a depression right now. Yeah, I also like

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Speaker 1: to think about it like, um it really you have

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Speaker 1: to look at like what are the important characteristics of

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Speaker 1: bitcoin again? Like I said, right, borderless, permission list, censorship resistant, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: And so for another crypto to come along and beat

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Speaker 1: it at those characteristics, so okay, it's faster, whatever, it's cheaper, whatever,

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Speaker 1: but like in those characteristics get mat or it's like

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Speaker 1: almost impossible. And it was really like Andreas on top

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Speaker 1: of us that kind of give me this argument. But

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Speaker 1: it's like, you know, when bitcoin started, nobody knew about it,

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Speaker 1: nobody cared about it. The government let it go by

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Speaker 1: an F. A. Hyak right, uh, Nobel Pride Peace Prize

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Speaker 1: winner nineteen seventy four. He said that there will never

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Speaker 1: be a sound money again until we can take it

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Speaker 1: out of the hands of the government. But it has

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Speaker 1: to be done in a slide roundabout way, and that's

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Speaker 1: exactly what bitcoin did. It was sly and uh, you

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Speaker 1: know today we see like all these attacks on networks

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Speaker 1: and then double spending and all that, and so now

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Speaker 1: if anybody really tried to be decentralized like bitcoin, it

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Speaker 1: would be attacked, it would just be shut down. It

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Speaker 1: would be almost impossible to ever launch that again. It

429
00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,600
Speaker 1: seems like to me anyway, Well, I think decentralization is

430
00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:40,120
Speaker 1: actually the key wenchpin of that line of thinking, which

431
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:43,280
Speaker 1: is absolutely correct, and it's that Bitcoin was able to

432
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,760
Speaker 1: grow because nobody paid attention to it. It It was able

433
00:20:46,800 --> 00:20:49,440
Speaker 1: to grow three or four years at the beginning completely

434
00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,199
Speaker 1: decentralized because everybody was just working on that one. And

435
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 1: as soon as people realize, oh my gosh, I can

436
00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 1: sucker retail investors and n vcs into giving me money

437
00:20:59,359 --> 00:21:01,440
Speaker 1: from my central lives thing, and I can pre mind

438
00:21:01,480 --> 00:21:03,760
Speaker 1: it and take two thirds of it from my treasury

439
00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:05,600
Speaker 1: or you know, set up all these like jan key

440
00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,400
Speaker 1: things that fund to foundation and keep me eating for

441
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:10,680
Speaker 1: a bunch of years. And buying me mansions and houses

442
00:21:10,720 --> 00:21:13,800
Speaker 1: and private security forces or whatever it is. That's what

443
00:21:13,800 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 1: people are gonna do. And not only that in a

444
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,240
Speaker 1: noisy space where now the cats out of the bag,

445
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: the ico bubbles happened. If you have a concept for

446
00:21:23,400 --> 00:21:25,800
Speaker 1: a crypto member wimble coin, or whatever the heck you

447
00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: want to scam people with, you better have a huge

448
00:21:28,080 --> 00:21:31,240
Speaker 1: marketing budget, and you better have agencies working in Korea

449
00:21:31,320 --> 00:21:35,879
Speaker 1: and China and Japan and Georgia and Estonia and the

450
00:21:36,000 --> 00:21:39,080
Speaker 1: UK and the US, you know, promoting your crypto like

451
00:21:39,280 --> 00:21:42,720
Speaker 1: justin Sun style, or you're gonna get your lunch eaten

452
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,760
Speaker 1: and and you have every incentive to to lie about

453
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,160
Speaker 1: it and to do all kinds of But even that,

454
00:21:48,320 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 1: even that isn't going to save it, because they're never

455
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,920
Speaker 1: going to achieve the level of decentralization. That's right. That's

456
00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,960
Speaker 1: why I often talk about the immaculate conception. Just like

457
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:01,000
Speaker 1: you know, bitcoin, bitcoin is coin came to be, it

458
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:04,040
Speaker 1: was the first one, and the advantages that it has

459
00:22:04,200 --> 00:22:08,919
Speaker 1: with with its beginnings. It has the moral authority that

460
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:11,560
Speaker 1: no other coin can have. And it doesn't matter if

461
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,399
Speaker 1: Satoshi comes back and claims his million coins or sells

462
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,720
Speaker 1: them or whatever, like it actually doesn't matter at this point.

463
00:22:16,760 --> 00:22:19,280
Speaker 1: He doesn't own ship because nobody owns it, just like

464
00:22:19,280 --> 00:22:21,600
Speaker 1: nobody owns the Internet. And and it's important for me

465
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:25,879
Speaker 1: to understand or really even convey that point because to

466
00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:28,480
Speaker 1: like you said, right to to to achieve that level

467
00:22:28,480 --> 00:22:31,639
Speaker 1: of decentralization would be almost impossible today. But the the

468
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 1: level of the centralization is what allows it to be

469
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:39,040
Speaker 1: censorship resistant. And um, on this last video I just did,

470
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,480
Speaker 1: I got comments, like, like over a thousand comments, a lot,

471
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:47,000
Speaker 1: and and the the most the biggest objection you know,

472
00:22:47,040 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: probably people at least said, oh, but the government is

473
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:54,240
Speaker 1: just gonna come and kill it, shut it down or whatever.

474
00:22:54,920 --> 00:22:59,520
Speaker 1: And so being that decentralized censorship resistant is what's so important.

475
00:23:00,119 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 1: How do you view that? Yeah, so there's two things

476
00:23:03,040 --> 00:23:06,639
Speaker 1: at work here. One is the protocol layer, and then

477
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 1: the second one is the social layer, which is what

478
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:11,000
Speaker 1: humans are going to do and what what human incentives

479
00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:15,479
Speaker 1: have been created? Right, so, you know, the protocol doesn't

480
00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:18,760
Speaker 1: make somebody go and hook up you know, a bitcoin

481
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:23,960
Speaker 1: mining facility to hydroelectric power and you know, bribe a

482
00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,080
Speaker 1: Chinese official to give you that power for free. So

483
00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:28,479
Speaker 1: that you can give hash power to the bitcoin network.

484
00:23:28,520 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: Those are human actions that are being taken because of

485
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:36,920
Speaker 1: incentives at the social layer, right, So, you know, the

486
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 1: the idea that a government could go and shut down

487
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,320
Speaker 1: the bitcoin protocol is that ludicrous, is like shutting off

488
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,720
Speaker 1: electricity worldwide. And even then the ledger would survive because

489
00:23:47,720 --> 00:23:49,800
Speaker 1: it lives on hard discs all over. Like the Bitcoin

490
00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:52,040
Speaker 1: ledger doesn't have to be connected to the Internet at

491
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:55,359
Speaker 1: all times. You could e MP the whole globe and

492
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,919
Speaker 1: as soon as you're back online or as soon as

493
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 1: you found another way through smoke signals or whatever to

494
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,040
Speaker 1: communicate the next block, you know, you could you could

495
00:24:04,119 --> 00:24:08,160
Speaker 1: keep bitcoin alive. Um. You know, I'm mostly focused on

496
00:24:08,280 --> 00:24:11,280
Speaker 1: the social layer, and that's really what you know, the

497
00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:15,240
Speaker 1: mission of of Swan Bitcoin is all about, you know,

498
00:24:15,320 --> 00:24:18,280
Speaker 1: basically the concept of in the U S specifically, which

499
00:24:18,320 --> 00:24:20,160
Speaker 1: is where we operate, where I live, where I want

500
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:21,760
Speaker 1: to keep living, or at least want to have the

501
00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,560
Speaker 1: option to keep living. I don't want the government to

502
00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:30,160
Speaker 1: take major actions adverse to the growth and eventual success

503
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:32,879
Speaker 1: of bitcoin. I want it to be as smooth as

504
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: possible for all of us that work in the space

505
00:24:35,119 --> 00:24:38,040
Speaker 1: that are early early purchasers of bitcoin and that are

506
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:40,439
Speaker 1: holding onto it and helping promote it and helping evangelize

507
00:24:40,440 --> 00:24:43,520
Speaker 1: and educate people and and and bring people towards you know,

508
00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:46,840
Speaker 1: a bright orange future like you are. UM. So that's

509
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:50,760
Speaker 1: our goal basically is to get ten million bitcoiners to

510
00:24:50,800 --> 00:24:53,399
Speaker 1: find as someone that you know owns some bit of

511
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 1: bitcoin that's meaningful to them and is educated and passionate

512
00:24:57,320 --> 00:25:00,439
Speaker 1: enough to actually argue for it, whether that me you know,

513
00:25:00,520 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: calling a congressman or attending a town hall meeting, or

514
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,600
Speaker 1: writing a blog post or fighting it out on Twitter

515
00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:08,120
Speaker 1: or whatever. It is. That combination of having some skin

516
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 1: in the game and enough knowledge to be a little

517
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:13,160
Speaker 1: bit dangerous, those ten million people would be just over

518
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:15,840
Speaker 1: the bar of you know, witness mteleb would call the

519
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: transgent minority that time and time again in a complex system,

520
00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,120
Speaker 1: is enough to flip a society uh to doing things

521
00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:26,480
Speaker 1: the way that they want it done. Like the tipping point.

522
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:31,520
Speaker 1: It's the tipping point. It's it's the same as regulatory capture. UM.

523
00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: It's the same as like hallal meat or or all

524
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:36,320
Speaker 1: of us eating kosher. Just about every packaged food in

525
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,280
Speaker 1: the US is kosher because you know, we're fine with

526
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:42,479
Speaker 1: eating kosher if you're a non Jew, but if you're Jewish,

527
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: you would only eat kosher. Right, so we all eat kosher.

528
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:48,000
Speaker 1: And now we see you know, the no no no

529
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: hormones at milk, or now we see free everything or whatever.

530
00:25:52,040 --> 00:25:54,280
Speaker 1: Um So, ten million users, where do you estimate we

531
00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: are right now? So that combination of both owning a

532
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 1: meaningful bit of bitcoin and actually under ending a decent

533
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: bit about it, I think that numbers around a hundred

534
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 1: thousand people in the US. We got a long way

535
00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:07,359
Speaker 1: to go. Yeah, I think we got about a hundred

536
00:26:07,440 --> 00:26:10,600
Speaker 1: cks to go, you know. Uh So Toshi said, uh,

537
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,320
Speaker 1: it might make sense to get a little bit just

538
00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: in case it catches on, and so I recommend that

539
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,159
Speaker 1: on on my video I just did on bitcoin on

540
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 1: a couple of days ago. At the end, I said, look,

541
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,639
Speaker 1: just put ten bucks in it. Just put a little

542
00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,080
Speaker 1: skin in the game, because then all of a sudden

543
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 1: it's gonna attract your interest and you're gonna start focusing

544
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,240
Speaker 1: on more. You canna start learning about it more. So

545
00:26:31,680 --> 00:26:34,119
Speaker 1: just get a little bit ten bucks. Right, So you

546
00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:36,840
Speaker 1: just dialed in on exactly what our value proposition is

547
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,640
Speaker 1: with Swan Bitcoin. So at swan bitcoin dot com what

548
00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 1: it is, it's it's a decision that you make one time,

549
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:45,840
Speaker 1: but then it's a recurring purchase. So it's an automatic

550
00:26:45,840 --> 00:26:48,959
Speaker 1: recurring purchase. So you're constantly, just like dollar cost, averaging

551
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:51,119
Speaker 1: a little bit every week or every month in the

552
00:26:51,160 --> 00:26:54,000
Speaker 1: bitcoin uh and learning about it as you go. So

553
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,080
Speaker 1: that's what we really like about it. As far as

554
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: we can tell, it looks like a little over half

555
00:26:59,720 --> 00:27:01,880
Speaker 1: of our users were the first place that they've ever

556
00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: bought bitcoin, and that's really what it's for. Yes, we're

557
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,479
Speaker 1: winning tons of people over from coin based because our

558
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: fees are six lower, but also because you know, it's

559
00:27:11,920 --> 00:27:14,119
Speaker 1: a it's a great place to experience bitcoin for the

560
00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: first time. You can do as little as five bucks

561
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:19,440
Speaker 1: a month with Swan and we have the lowest fees

562
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:22,560
Speaker 1: in the US for automatic pull from your bank account,

563
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:26,440
Speaker 1: automatic purchase a bitcoin, free automatic withdrawal to self custody

564
00:27:26,440 --> 00:27:28,520
Speaker 1: if you're ready for that. If you're not ready, we

565
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,040
Speaker 1: use the same crustodian as like Finance and bit tracks

566
00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:33,919
Speaker 1: and all these fancy big companies, and custody with us

567
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: as free as well. So that's interesting how your model

568
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,919
Speaker 1: is is kind of built around helping people get in

569
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:42,680
Speaker 1: and and uh it does like these automatic payments now

570
00:27:43,359 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 1: for people that are a little bit more advanced than investing. No,

571
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:50,320
Speaker 1: that's dollar cost averaging, um, and so dollar cost averaging

572
00:27:50,400 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: is one of the best ways to get into a position,

573
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:55,119
Speaker 1: especially a volatile position. Um. I'm sure you have some

574
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 1: numbers and stats around that you want to kind of

575
00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,440
Speaker 1: dig in and explain with that how that works. Yeah,

576
00:27:59,480 --> 00:28:02,480
Speaker 1: I mean absolut I mean at it at its basic level,

577
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: if you dollar cost average into an asset, by definition,

578
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:10,199
Speaker 1: you're committing the same amount of US d uh into

579
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 1: the purchase each period. So if you buy every week

580
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 1: and you're always putting a hunter bucks, and when the

581
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: price of bitcoin point is low, you're always buying a

582
00:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,119
Speaker 1: little bit more bitcoin. When the prices bitcoin is relatively higher,

583
00:28:21,119 --> 00:28:23,160
Speaker 1: you're buying a little bit less. So your entry point,

584
00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:25,440
Speaker 1: you know, over time is always going to be pretty

585
00:28:25,520 --> 00:28:28,640
Speaker 1: darn good. Yeah, um, you know. But I actually think

586
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:30,800
Speaker 1: the much more important thing, and this is why we

587
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:32,800
Speaker 1: don't really define the product as d c A because

588
00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:35,000
Speaker 1: d c A is kind of like a trading strategy.

589
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,720
Speaker 1: It's actually much more about the psychological trick of making

590
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:43,040
Speaker 1: a decision once and therefore having it happen automatically from

591
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,480
Speaker 1: then on. Because the basically for the last fifty years,

592
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 1: call it since nine when we went off the gold standard,

593
00:28:48,160 --> 00:28:51,440
Speaker 1: there's really been only two assets that most Americans have

594
00:28:51,520 --> 00:28:53,760
Speaker 1: been any good at accumulating value in. One is a

595
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,160
Speaker 1: four O n K because it's automatically taken out your paycheck,

596
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,720
Speaker 1: and the other is a mortgage, which is for almost everybody,

597
00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: the only way that the Americans for the most part,

598
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 1: have any value, and that's because you sign up for mortgage,

599
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:06,400
Speaker 1: sign the contract, you lose your house. If you don't

600
00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 1: make the payment, you usually find a way to make

601
00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:10,800
Speaker 1: the payment. So those are basically the big buckets of wealth.

602
00:29:11,120 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: We think bitcoin is important enough to do that in

603
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:17,320
Speaker 1: the same way, even if it's only like one percent

604
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,800
Speaker 1: of your monthly earnings or five percent or whatever it is,

605
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 1: you should be thinking about building that position in the

606
00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: same way. Yeah, you wise. Yeah, of people, I just

607
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: gotta I'm so passionate about this, man. But ahead they've

608
00:29:32,520 --> 00:29:35,800
Speaker 1: studied this over and over and over again with people

609
00:29:35,880 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: that trade in assets that they, you know, don't really

610
00:29:39,040 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 1: know much about. And this is true for me too.

611
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,959
Speaker 1: I will always before this existed, and I don't buy

612
00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,640
Speaker 1: a bitcoin anymore outside of my my swan plan. Uh,

613
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: you're always going to throw down when the price catches

614
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 1: your attention, and so of people. It's basically everybody that

615
00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:56,160
Speaker 1: hasn't had twenty years of conquering their emotions in the

616
00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:58,640
Speaker 1: market and really knowing you as that they're investing in.

617
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,960
Speaker 1: People in on average will buy high and solo. Yeah,

618
00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,080
Speaker 1: because as humans were horrible investors because we run towards

619
00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:08,560
Speaker 1: pleasure and we run away from pain. And so when

620
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:10,440
Speaker 1: the price goes up, we want pleasure, we jump in,

621
00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:12,000
Speaker 1: and when it goes down, we want to get away

622
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:14,280
Speaker 1: from pains that we get out were horrible. I made

623
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: a video a while ago now it was shoot might

624
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:21,320
Speaker 1: have been a year ago, uh, and it was should

625
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:23,440
Speaker 1: I buy bitcoin now? Or wait? I think was the

626
00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: title of it. And basically the concept of that video was,

627
00:30:27,760 --> 00:30:30,480
Speaker 1: you know, because I get asked all the time, should

628
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:32,320
Speaker 1: I buy bitcoin now? Or is it gonna drop in

629
00:30:32,360 --> 00:30:34,280
Speaker 1: the future? Right? Like what's it gonna do? And so

630
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:35,880
Speaker 1: the title of videos should I buy it now? Weight?

631
00:30:35,920 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: And what? I basically what the point of the video was,

632
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:40,360
Speaker 1: and I I demonstrated through math. Is that even if

633
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:42,600
Speaker 1: you would have bought at the very peak of two thousand,

634
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:44,560
Speaker 1: seventeen and twenty thousand or whatever, right, and you would

635
00:30:44,560 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 1: have bought every single week until the mota, you know,

636
00:30:47,400 --> 00:30:49,640
Speaker 1: until mid two thousand eighteen, whenever I did the video,

637
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:52,960
Speaker 1: you would have been in profit. Yeah. And so instead

638
00:30:52,960 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: of trying to time the market, which nobody can do.

639
00:30:55,120 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: And so you said it's like a trading strategy, I

640
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:00,520
Speaker 1: think it's a long term accumulation strategy. But either way, um,

641
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,040
Speaker 1: but instead of trying to time the market, I don't

642
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: know if it's gonna go upro down. So what I

643
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: do is I just buy consistently and then I don't

644
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,200
Speaker 1: have to worry about it anymore. For the average person,

645
00:31:09,240 --> 00:31:12,440
Speaker 1: as you said, it's the best opportunity, not only because

646
00:31:12,520 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 1: you beat that volatility so you don't have to worry

647
00:31:14,440 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: about it the fluctuations, but also the point that you

648
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:18,720
Speaker 1: brought up is perfect. And I teach this in my

649
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 1: investing classes, is it has to be automatic systems. Right, yeah,

650
00:31:23,360 --> 00:31:26,120
Speaker 1: and so h you you put both you give them

651
00:31:26,120 --> 00:31:29,880
Speaker 1: an automatic way and dollar cost averaging together. I mean

652
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,239
Speaker 1: it's it's a perfect system. Yeah. It seems. I mean,

653
00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:37,400
Speaker 1: we have insane devotion from our users, and you know,

654
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,800
Speaker 1: most of our new users come from referrals, as much

655
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 1: as I'd love it to be from appearances on awesome

656
00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: shows like yours, like, the majority comes from people that

657
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:48,800
Speaker 1: use it and recommend it to their friends. And that's

658
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:50,640
Speaker 1: always our north star. Our goal is to always be

659
00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,920
Speaker 1: the top recommendation of bit cooinners when their friends ask

660
00:31:53,960 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 1: them where should they buy? Yeah, well, I've definitely been

661
00:31:56,760 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: thrown it out quite a bit, and I will continue

662
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,400
Speaker 1: to um where where are people able to buy from?

663
00:32:02,560 --> 00:32:04,959
Speaker 1: Is it only in the US or all over the

664
00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 1: world or what? Yeah? So it's US only, US only

665
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,000
Speaker 1: including Puerto Rico? Is that going to change sometimes? Soon?

666
00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:15,800
Speaker 1: Not this year? There's just so much rodehe here in

667
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:17,880
Speaker 1: the States. And I think, you know, again, with the

668
00:32:17,880 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: company's mission being to head off government intervention by recruiting

669
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:24,760
Speaker 1: this many bitcoiners, like any other government coming out against

670
00:32:24,800 --> 00:32:29,640
Speaker 1: bitcoin doesn't really matter. It'll just set that little government back,

671
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,680
Speaker 1: the hedgemon, the one with the military and you know,

672
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:38,000
Speaker 1: the global system depending on their currency crank cracking down

673
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,560
Speaker 1: and turning on or turning off on ramps or you know,

674
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:44,080
Speaker 1: otherwise penalizing bitcoiners or trying to tax bitcoiners and give

675
00:32:44,080 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 1: it to boomers as they're spending the retirement money or

676
00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,760
Speaker 1: whatever they're trying to do. Uh, that's what we want

677
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 1: to head off. And it doesn't it's not binary. There's

678
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:54,680
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that could be done that we're

679
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 1: just going to try to get out in front of

680
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,000
Speaker 1: and and be actively involved in thwarting that would be

681
00:32:59,080 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: adversarial to bit point in the coinners. I mean, it's

682
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:03,880
Speaker 1: a great mission statement and I love it, and uh

683
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:06,240
Speaker 1: that's that's why I do what I do. And and

684
00:33:06,280 --> 00:33:08,160
Speaker 1: we're all on the same page right, which is trying

685
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:10,680
Speaker 1: to as you said earlier, like evangelize about it right,

686
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:14,800
Speaker 1: tell people about it, um, and uh, encourage people. Maybe

687
00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 1: it makes sense just to get a little bit right. Yeah, Well,

688
00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 1: if you want to, if you want to get your

689
00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:20,720
Speaker 1: friends involved, and we got to set this up for you. Um,

690
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:22,440
Speaker 1: if you're sold on Swan and I gotta get you,

691
00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:25,040
Speaker 1: uh trying to plan. But you can go to swan

692
00:33:25,080 --> 00:33:28,440
Speaker 1: bitcoin dot com slash in list and this is basically

693
00:33:28,440 --> 00:33:30,120
Speaker 1: where you sign up to get your own custom u

694
00:33:30,280 --> 00:33:32,200
Speaker 1: r L and your own custom landing page where your

695
00:33:32,200 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: friends can come and see your smiling face and something

696
00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:36,000
Speaker 1: that you say about bitcoin and why you why you

697
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:38,280
Speaker 1: think Swan is a good place to buy um. We

698
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:40,960
Speaker 1: have great people like Max Kaiser and Preston Tish and

699
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: you know, hundreds of people, hundreds of normal people that

700
00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 1: are non media people as well, just using that that

701
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,320
Speaker 1: ref link and and letting people come and experience Swan

702
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,560
Speaker 1: on their recommendation and you can either you know, pocket

703
00:33:53,640 --> 00:33:56,840
Speaker 1: those those stats, pocket that bitcoin. We do a quarter

704
00:33:56,880 --> 00:33:59,640
Speaker 1: point for three years for everybody that you bring um

705
00:33:59,760 --> 00:34:01,440
Speaker 1: or or you can donate it and you know, if

706
00:34:01,440 --> 00:34:03,200
Speaker 1: you're not comfortable and you just kind of like wanna

707
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: have people show up. We also have a couple of

708
00:34:06,440 --> 00:34:09,120
Speaker 1: organizations that we that we donate to for people that

709
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: don't wanna you know, earn money from their network and

710
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:14,799
Speaker 1: just want to get people using Swan. You can you

711
00:34:14,800 --> 00:34:17,319
Speaker 1: can donate to either BTC pay Server which is Swan

712
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,120
Speaker 1: bit cooin dot com slash BTC pay spread that around,

713
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: or Human Rights Foundation, which is Alex C. Gladstein in

714
00:34:23,480 --> 00:34:25,800
Speaker 1: their career doing great work and very very pro bitcoin

715
00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: that Swan Bitcoin dot com slash HRF and and anybody

716
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:31,640
Speaker 1: that signs up through those links or any of these

717
00:34:31,680 --> 00:34:34,160
Speaker 1: rough codes. Um, you know gets ten dollars a free

718
00:34:34,160 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 1: bitcoin when they become a member, which is nice too. Yeah.

719
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,719
Speaker 1: I do like both of those uh nonprofits as you're

720
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:43,640
Speaker 1: talking about alex and BTC pay Both both could causes

721
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:47,000
Speaker 1: for sure, definitely both doing especially what hr E is doing.

722
00:34:47,040 --> 00:34:50,320
Speaker 1: Man such good work and and uh that is exactly

723
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,839
Speaker 1: why bitcoin, what HRH is doing, right, It's like that's

724
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:57,319
Speaker 1: why we Yeah, you're right, Yeah, I mean, you know,

725
00:34:57,400 --> 00:34:59,839
Speaker 1: Human Rights Foundation is always speaking out about you know,

726
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: rights of the individual and the importance of separation of

727
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: money and state, and you know, really coming out hard

728
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: against you know, surveillance technologies and all this spying stuff

729
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: that's going on with different governments, including our own. Um,

730
00:35:13,960 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 1: so yeah, I can't can't speak more highly of those guys.

731
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah cool. So, um you gave out the name was

732
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,400
Speaker 1: a swan bitcoin dot com m hm and uh cool?

733
00:35:23,440 --> 00:35:25,200
Speaker 1: Where would people go to find out more about you

734
00:35:25,239 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: and follow along on your journey? Yeah? Sure, I think

735
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:31,080
Speaker 1: you know, Swan Bitcoin on Twitter is probably the most

736
00:35:31,160 --> 00:35:33,319
Speaker 1: active channel that we use, but we also have two

737
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:37,719
Speaker 1: shows that we produce on on YouTube and and have podcasts.

738
00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:40,440
Speaker 1: So Swan Signal Live is every Wednesday. You can go

739
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash swan signal um and in that

740
00:35:43,760 --> 00:35:47,440
Speaker 1: one every week we pair two people to come on

741
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:51,680
Speaker 1: and talk about bitcoin, macro tech, etcetera. Uh, I believe

742
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: that we're having a guy, this Mark Moss guy. I

743
00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:57,960
Speaker 1: think it's coming on on next Wednesday. So if you

744
00:35:58,040 --> 00:36:00,960
Speaker 1: give this episode up, if get this episode up in

745
00:36:01,000 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 1: the in the next couple of days, Uh, Mark, I

746
00:36:03,680 --> 00:36:06,720
Speaker 1: believe you're on on the So I think it's eleven

747
00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:08,799
Speaker 1: am Pacific on the fifteenth, and you can watch live

748
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:12,120
Speaker 1: on Twitter YouTube or just catch it later on our

749
00:36:12,239 --> 00:36:15,280
Speaker 1: our YouTube channel. And then you know, you do something

750
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: that I think is probably more important, frankly than a

751
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:20,960
Speaker 1: lot of the bitcoin podcasts that I often know on,

752
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,839
Speaker 1: which is reaching out to people that are in adjacent

753
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,839
Speaker 1: areas of interest. Because you have a broad audience that's

754
00:36:26,880 --> 00:36:29,160
Speaker 1: interested in finance and you talk to them about bitcoin.

755
00:36:29,520 --> 00:36:30,920
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna see a lot more of that

756
00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:33,759
Speaker 1: over time. We're trying an experiment in that we just

757
00:36:33,800 --> 00:36:36,200
Speaker 1: started a show called sounds like a nineties Man. It's

758
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,879
Speaker 1: called Ugly Duckling in the Bright Orange Future. So yeah,

759
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:43,279
Speaker 1: so that one is actually about gen x music and

760
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:47,040
Speaker 1: bitcoin and uh so that's that's another playlist on on

761
00:36:47,320 --> 00:36:50,160
Speaker 1: YouTube dot com slash Swan Signal. We just posted our

762
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:53,000
Speaker 1: third episode today. But it's me and my real life

763
00:36:53,000 --> 00:36:55,960
Speaker 1: brother who's a longtime musician and former local rock star

764
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: and Seattle with a bunch of musician friends, and you know,

765
00:36:58,880 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 1: we'll get people like you to come on and talk

766
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:03,400
Speaker 1: about a little bit of music, a little bit of

767
00:37:03,400 --> 00:37:05,400
Speaker 1: like eighties and nineties culture and how it sort of

768
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:07,879
Speaker 1: threads through and sets the table for bitcoin and what's

769
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 1: going on today, and then we'll hit a little bitcoin

770
00:37:09,680 --> 00:37:12,759
Speaker 1: towards the end of the show. Yeah, that's interesting. I

771
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 1: like that. You know, you talked about um, you know,

772
00:37:15,480 --> 00:37:18,360
Speaker 1: your mission swan bitcoin and really to to to market,

773
00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:20,520
Speaker 1: to evangelize, get you know, get people aware of it

774
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:23,160
Speaker 1: or whatever. I'm a marketing guy, always have been, I

775
00:37:23,239 --> 00:37:26,239
Speaker 1: still am, and I love it. I I eat, sleep

776
00:37:26,239 --> 00:37:28,440
Speaker 1: and breathe marketing and business and all that stuff. But anyway,

777
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 1: it's important to understand, like in marketing, like you have

778
00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,800
Speaker 1: like this customer journey, and so you have to understand

779
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:35,920
Speaker 1: where customers are in their journey, and so at the

780
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:38,360
Speaker 1: top of the funnel, they're not even aware they have

781
00:37:38,400 --> 00:37:41,280
Speaker 1: a problem yet, and then they have awareness of a problem,

782
00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:43,680
Speaker 1: but they don't have a solution. Then they have a solution,

783
00:37:43,680 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 1: but they haven't figured out which one is the best one,

784
00:37:45,480 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 1: and then they choose a solution. Right, So, like I

785
00:37:48,680 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: think exactly kind of what you said with my channel

786
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: is really about like people don't even know they have

787
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: a problem yet, and so it's really about like, hey,

788
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,640
Speaker 1: we have a problem here, and then like hey, here's

789
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:00,160
Speaker 1: a potential solution, and just trying to to work well

790
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: down that. But but I think anyway what you said,

791
00:38:03,520 --> 00:38:05,200
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a fan. I've watched a bunch of

792
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,960
Speaker 1: your videos, and I think of your podcast is, uh,

793
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:10,920
Speaker 1: it's getting people to think about like what is money

794
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:13,200
Speaker 1: a lot, which I think it's not a coincidence that,

795
00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:15,960
Speaker 1: you know, probably the last five good bitcoin books that

796
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: have come out, you know, the first few chapters are

797
00:38:17,920 --> 00:38:21,280
Speaker 1: always just about getting people to recognize like what is money?

798
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,880
Speaker 1: And have you really thought about money? Right? And why

799
00:38:24,960 --> 00:38:28,160
Speaker 1: why do we have this unsound money for the first

800
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 1: time in human history? Like this is the longest it's lasted,

801
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,879
Speaker 1: It's or a hundred years into this fiad experiment since

802
00:38:33,880 --> 00:38:38,680
Speaker 1: the creation of the fed. Everybody needs the message right now, right, Like,

803
00:38:38,719 --> 00:38:40,600
Speaker 1: I mean, if there was ever a time in history

804
00:38:40,640 --> 00:38:43,839
Speaker 1: we have people marching burning cities down. They're piste off,

805
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 1: but like they don't really understand why. They don't understand

806
00:38:48,040 --> 00:38:50,640
Speaker 1: why they're so like, why is there such a divide?

807
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,120
Speaker 1: Why is there such inequality? It all comes down to

808
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: the money. Yeah, and it's also you know, you can't

809
00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,920
Speaker 1: un see it once you see it, like the matrix. Right,

810
00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: you also recognize that whether it's happening consciously or subconsciously,

811
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:07,560
Speaker 1: and I guarantee for some of these people pulling strings

812
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,160
Speaker 1: for the Fiat system that it's happening consciously. But regardless,

813
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:15,160
Speaker 1: the incentive exists to get people that don't have their

814
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: hands in the honeypot, that aren't close to the money printer,

815
00:39:18,680 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: that aren't close to d C in New York and

816
00:39:20,840 --> 00:39:25,600
Speaker 1: the government financial complex. They don't realize it's in those

817
00:39:25,640 --> 00:39:30,280
Speaker 1: people's incentive to create strife and get people to fight

818
00:39:30,320 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 1: amongst each other over other issues unrelated to their theft

819
00:39:34,760 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: of our savings. Of course, it's like a magician, Hey

820
00:39:37,040 --> 00:39:38,960
Speaker 1: look over here, and then I'm doing this over here

821
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:43,600
Speaker 1: right exactly. Well, recognize that you're being played understand money,

822
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:46,120
Speaker 1: and you might just find out that Mark has been

823
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,520
Speaker 1: right this whole time, and you should be buying some bitcoin. Well,

824
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,400
Speaker 1: I love your mission statement. I'm I'm I'm on the

825
00:39:51,440 --> 00:39:54,040
Speaker 1: same same mission, and I want to I want to

826
00:39:54,080 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: help push it as much as I can, and we'll

827
00:39:56,040 --> 00:39:58,479
Speaker 1: be a lined up on that, you know, just real quick,

828
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:01,319
Speaker 1: you know for me, I I told you, But you know,

829
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:03,799
Speaker 1: in in two thousand and eight, I had made a

830
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:06,760
Speaker 1: bunch of money. I was started buying bank owned repos

831
00:40:06,800 --> 00:40:09,040
Speaker 1: in southern California and flipping them and done tons of

832
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:12,359
Speaker 1: them and businesses fortune exit. But in two thousand and eight,

833
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:15,879
Speaker 1: I got completely wiped out, and uh, I was like,

834
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:18,360
Speaker 1: what the heck, Like I gotta figure this whole system out.

835
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 1: And the more I started to learn, the more disillusioned,

836
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: if you will, I became like this system is just

837
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,759
Speaker 1: completely screwed. And and uh I saw that what was

838
00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: coming was like there was gonna be this war. And

839
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,799
Speaker 1: I remember telling my wife, like I don't want to

840
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,759
Speaker 1: be a freedom fighter, Like I'm out, Like I'll be

841
00:40:35,800 --> 00:40:37,920
Speaker 1: on a beach in Nicaragua in a hammock, surfing and

842
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:39,800
Speaker 1: fishing all day, Like I'm not gonna be a freedom fighter.

843
00:40:39,880 --> 00:40:43,200
Speaker 1: And it was when I found out about bitcoin. I

844
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:46,879
Speaker 1: was like, we finally have a tool we can use.

845
00:40:47,160 --> 00:40:50,240
Speaker 1: I can support bitcoin if I can tell the world

846
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 1: about bitcoin, and everybody used bitcoin, that's how we win.

847
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: And I don't have to be a freedom fighter. It's

848
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: a peaceful, peaceful opt out. And so it was ever

849
00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,600
Speaker 1: since I recognized that I was a switch. And so anyway,

850
00:41:00,640 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 1: that's my mission to tell as many people as I

851
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,200
Speaker 1: can to become sovereign and become free. And so we're

852
00:41:06,239 --> 00:41:10,280
Speaker 1: we're on the same team's exit the system without exiting physically,

853
00:41:10,760 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: but not just exit the system as in like um

854
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:15,480
Speaker 1: bailing out of the system. What we do is we're

855
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: taking their power. We're starving them. We're starving and and

856
00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:22,680
Speaker 1: it's because it's fractional reserve. It's exponential, right, So one

857
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:25,400
Speaker 1: dollar in the bank creates ten or a hundred or

858
00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars, but one dollar out takes hundreds or

859
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:33,560
Speaker 1: thousands or tens of thousands out. And so anyway, yeah,

860
00:41:34,160 --> 00:41:38,280
Speaker 1: so cool, Well we'll keep we'll keep pushing and we'll

861
00:41:38,280 --> 00:41:41,000
Speaker 1: do more content together. And I appreciate you coming on. No,

862
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:43,080
Speaker 1: it's it's really my pleasure. This is a super fun

863
00:41:43,080 --> 00:41:46,520
Speaker 1: conversation and you made fort some minutes go by real fast.

864
00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:51,120
Speaker 1: Yeah cool, all right, we'll talk again soon. Sounds by