1 00:00:03,120 --> 00:00:06,200 Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff mom never told you. From how Stuff 2 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:13,960 Speaker 1: Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to the podcast. I'm 3 00:00:14,040 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: Kristen and I'm Caroline. Caroline. When you moved out of 4 00:00:17,880 --> 00:00:21,759 Speaker 1: your parents house, did your mom or dad take up 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:28,920 Speaker 1: any new hobbies? Um? Hobbies? Does drinking more wine counts? 6 00:00:29,120 --> 00:00:34,480 Speaker 1: Sure than yes? More wine? He turned your parents into 7 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:38,360 Speaker 1: wine os? Just just my mother rude? Okay, Uh. One 8 00:00:38,400 --> 00:00:42,280 Speaker 1: thing I've noticed this is relatively new. Even though my 9 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,800 Speaker 1: parents have technically been empty nesters for a while now, 10 00:00:47,360 --> 00:00:51,720 Speaker 1: my mother has taken a keen interest in monarch butterflies, 11 00:00:52,920 --> 00:00:57,320 Speaker 1: like collecting them. She essentially has figured out how to 12 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: raise She will grow the milk weed that monarchs build 13 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: their cocoons on, and will I kind of protect them 14 00:01:07,760 --> 00:01:10,920 Speaker 1: until they are set free to then fly down to 15 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:15,440 Speaker 1: Mexico for their annual migration. And I was home a 16 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago and got to witness with my 17 00:01:18,400 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 1: mother a monarch emerging, and it was like she had 18 00:01:23,400 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 1: like her grandchild. I'd like lost count of how many 19 00:01:27,720 --> 00:01:30,800 Speaker 1: grandchildren she has at this point, but anyway, Yeah, she 20 00:01:30,959 --> 00:01:35,319 Speaker 1: has kind of replaced children with butterflies, which is awesome 21 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: and adorable things that you can never hug, but will 22 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,959 Speaker 1: also never require like feeding, cooking for Yeah, I mean 23 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 1: they're they're there and then they can just go pretty 24 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,760 Speaker 1: easy up keep. Um. I was asking you that because 25 00:01:48,800 --> 00:01:53,240 Speaker 1: we are talking about this thing called empty nest syndrome, 26 00:01:53,880 --> 00:01:59,639 Speaker 1: which essentially it maintains that when kids fly the coop 27 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,279 Speaker 1: and leave home, then our moms and dads get super 28 00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 1: depressed because they can't live without us. Yeah. It's basically 29 00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:10,440 Speaker 1: when maybe not just like feeling kind of lonely or 30 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,760 Speaker 1: kind of bummed, it's it's really when the loss has 31 00:02:13,760 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: a negative impact on the parents daily life, when they 32 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:21,480 Speaker 1: do get really depressed. And Brad Sachs, who's the family psychologist, 33 00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:23,800 Speaker 1: sums it up this way. He says, so you're never 34 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:26,400 Speaker 1: as necessary and as relevant in life as you are 35 00:02:26,440 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 1: when you're raising a child, So when that child no 36 00:02:28,960 --> 00:02:33,760 Speaker 1: longer needs you, you automatically feel less necessary and less relevant. 37 00:02:33,880 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: He says that it's a tremendous shift and self worth. 38 00:02:37,560 --> 00:02:40,720 Speaker 1: Time is marching on, You're moving into a new phase 39 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:44,600 Speaker 1: of life, and maybe all that changes just a little scary, yeah, 40 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: because it also radically alters household dynamics, where you know, 41 00:02:49,320 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: it intensifies probably the relationship between spouses if it's you're 42 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,800 Speaker 1: in a you know, a dual parent home, uh, and 43 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,639 Speaker 1: alters you really actionship with your with your children as well. 44 00:03:02,680 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 1: And I definitely feel like since not just in the 45 00:03:05,600 --> 00:03:10,240 Speaker 1: process of getting older, but living apart from my parents 46 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,959 Speaker 1: and becoming a more independent adult on my own, it's 47 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: changed the for the better, I would say, change the 48 00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: relationship between my parents and myself. Yeah, my parents have 49 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 1: have taken more trips together, although my dad does like sometimes, 50 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:26,639 Speaker 1: you know, just go to Switzerland by himself, as one 51 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 1: as want to do. But yeah, they really, you know, 52 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: they have dinner every night together and watch Two and 53 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 1: a half Men and they seem to be doing fine. Um. 54 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,200 Speaker 1: One thing I found interesting about Emptins syndrome is that 55 00:03:38,600 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: it's typically associated with mothers, although fathers do experience it too, 56 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: maybe just in different ways and at different times. And 57 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 1: some of these articles that we read about Emptins syndrome 58 00:03:48,480 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: point out that for a lot, for a lot of 59 00:03:50,600 --> 00:03:53,960 Speaker 1: moms out there leaving the house their kids leaving the 60 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: house coincides with menopause, so maybe there's some hormonal stuff 61 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,880 Speaker 1: going on. But did would also strike stay at home 62 00:04:01,960 --> 00:04:05,520 Speaker 1: moms more than mothers who might work outside the house. Yeah, 63 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 1: and that makes total sense if you think about it 64 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: in terms of what you had talked about, and with 65 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 1: the relevance, like you're never more relevant in your child's 66 00:04:13,560 --> 00:04:16,240 Speaker 1: life is when you are raising them. And if that 67 00:04:16,480 --> 00:04:20,479 Speaker 1: is your full time occupation. Although you know whether you 68 00:04:20,520 --> 00:04:22,160 Speaker 1: have a job outside the home or not, you could say, 69 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:23,960 Speaker 1: you know, parenting is a full time job, but you 70 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,560 Speaker 1: get what I mean. If that is your domain in 71 00:04:27,600 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: which you spend most of your time, and there's a 72 00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:34,599 Speaker 1: major shift that happens, then then sure, I can see 73 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,200 Speaker 1: how that would have a bigger impact. And let's not 74 00:04:38,279 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 1: forget the dads. It's not like the dads are totally unemotional, 75 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: not caring that their kids are leaving. Forbes and in 76 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:47,760 Speaker 1: August two thousand six article pointed out that around the 77 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:51,080 Speaker 1: time the kids leave home, also careers tend to start 78 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:55,080 Speaker 1: leveling off and quote suddenly there's an abundance of time 79 00:04:55,120 --> 00:04:58,840 Speaker 1: with the wife, which isn't always positive. So I mean, 80 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,080 Speaker 1: I guess if you're left alone with each other, it 81 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,719 Speaker 1: could go either way. Well and for men um and 82 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,640 Speaker 1: this is getting into really gendered territory, but it's still 83 00:05:09,160 --> 00:05:11,359 Speaker 1: um I think it's still pretty relevant. Like, on the 84 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:17,040 Speaker 1: one side, you have, uh, the possible intensifying effect of 85 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 1: menopause for women with emptiness being like, oh my god, 86 00:05:20,160 --> 00:05:22,479 Speaker 1: everything around me is changing and why is it so 87 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: hot in here? And then for men, while they might 88 00:05:27,520 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: not be going through something like menopause, I feel like 89 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 1: that was a two and a half men joke, like, no, 90 00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:38,640 Speaker 1: they would never have anything so clever. It's true, men 91 00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:43,400 Speaker 1: at their this late middle age, getting into older age, 92 00:05:43,480 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 1: their their careers are probably leveling off. Now. This is 93 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:50,240 Speaker 1: also that might be speaking more pre recession. It could 94 00:05:50,240 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: we have a lot of differences now, but for you know, 95 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,680 Speaker 1: you're you're you're reaching the top of your hopefully career trajectory. 96 00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,120 Speaker 1: And then it's like, oh, well, okay, well I've done 97 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: that we need to do and and and a lot 98 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: of psychologists will say that the reason why emptin no 99 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,680 Speaker 1: syndrome might not seem as a parent in father's is 100 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: because it might just have more of a delayed effect. 101 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,120 Speaker 1: They'll be like, yeah, yeah, I no, Like Susie's going 102 00:06:17,120 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: off of college. Yeah, well I'll go to Switzerland at 103 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: some point, no big deal. And then once Susie's actually 104 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:27,960 Speaker 1: gone He's like, wait, where Susie go, Susan oh nuts, nuts, 105 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 1: I'm talking to myself again, um Brad zachs We mentioned 106 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,279 Speaker 1: earlier that family psychologist told The Washington Post in June 107 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,640 Speaker 1: that it tends to hit father's more profoundly after the 108 00:06:38,680 --> 00:06:42,599 Speaker 1: kids have left because they experienced regret and remorse about 109 00:06:42,640 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 1: not being involved enough. So like Mom might experience it preemptively, like, okay, 110 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:50,200 Speaker 1: the kids are about to leave. Everything's going to be terrible. 111 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:51,839 Speaker 1: And then the kids leave and she just, like my 112 00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: mom forms a bridge club, not bridge majeen club. That's 113 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,840 Speaker 1: what she's doing. Now, that's just fantastic. They have she 114 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:02,919 Speaker 1: the ladies come over. They eat veggies and dip and 115 00:07:02,920 --> 00:07:05,960 Speaker 1: they play majong and drink wine while it's daylight. Can 116 00:07:06,000 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 1: we do that sometime? I I can't learn card games. 117 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:12,920 Speaker 1: I don't think I can learn mang. Okay, well, I 118 00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: mean we can still go and party with the ladies 119 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:16,520 Speaker 1: if you want. I'm just saying, if we start a 120 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,520 Speaker 1: maj young group, I am going to wear a fashionable 121 00:07:19,640 --> 00:07:23,560 Speaker 1: turban allah great gardens. So I just really want to 122 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:26,880 Speaker 1: be able to do that. Yes, a little eaty anyway, 123 00:07:27,480 --> 00:07:31,280 Speaker 1: But there are also people who um and research out 124 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:36,480 Speaker 1: there that is challenging the existence of emptiness syndrome because 125 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: we're talking to about how like well, this has commonly 126 00:07:39,280 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: been associated with stay at home moms. The term was 127 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:44,120 Speaker 1: coined by We should have mentioned earlier, the term was 128 00:07:44,160 --> 00:07:49,600 Speaker 1: coined by sociologists in the nineteen seventies, and certainly since then, 129 00:07:50,080 --> 00:07:54,520 Speaker 1: household dynamics have changed. We've got you know, as we 130 00:07:54,560 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: say all the time in the podcast, there are plenty 131 00:07:56,320 --> 00:07:59,720 Speaker 1: of more women working outside of the home and raising 132 00:07:59,760 --> 00:08:03,400 Speaker 1: chill droom, and father is becoming more involved in the 133 00:08:03,480 --> 00:08:06,640 Speaker 1: daily lives of their kids. On the flip side of that, 134 00:08:07,360 --> 00:08:10,559 Speaker 1: and so some psychologists are saying, you know what, really, 135 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: the data show that emptiness syndrome not so much. Yeah, 136 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,360 Speaker 1: I don't think it. It is as bad as we 137 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:20,560 Speaker 1: think it is, and it's definitely not as bad as 138 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 1: kids who have just left for college I think it is. 139 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 1: This is from the American Psychological Association in April two 140 00:08:27,040 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 1: thousand three. Psychologists Carol Karen Fingerman asks her students every 141 00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 1: year how they think their parents are coping. Every time, 142 00:08:35,679 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: students always think that their parents are doing worse than 143 00:08:38,920 --> 00:08:43,760 Speaker 1: they actually are, and a Washington post story. This is 144 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:47,040 Speaker 1: this is pretty data this is from But they posted 145 00:08:47,080 --> 00:08:51,360 Speaker 1: a survey of mothers and found that only ten of 146 00:08:51,360 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: empty nesters reported feeling acute loneliness or having a major 147 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,640 Speaker 1: trouble adjusting to the change. Yeah, and there was there 148 00:08:58,679 --> 00:09:01,079 Speaker 1: was a thing that was pointed out by Michael Schermer, 149 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: who is communist for Scientific American and publisher of Skeptic 150 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 1: magazine and a colma. He was writing about emptiness syndrome 151 00:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,240 Speaker 1: and he he said that, yeah, it had a very 152 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,040 Speaker 1: acute effect on him when his daughter went off to college, 153 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:17,520 Speaker 1: but also brought up in fact that it didn't last 154 00:09:17,559 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: as long and wasn't as horrible as he thought it 155 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: was gonna be when it initially happened. And this has 156 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:27,120 Speaker 1: to do with something called the durability bias, And it's 157 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: essentially like a common fallacy in human thinking that when 158 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:35,760 Speaker 1: we anticipate a terrible event, we think it's gonna be 159 00:09:36,000 --> 00:09:40,080 Speaker 1: terrible for a lot longer than it really is. Like 160 00:09:40,120 --> 00:09:43,439 Speaker 1: they've done experiments with um like asking people, uh, say, 161 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,720 Speaker 1: like who were in relationships saying, now, imagine breaking up 162 00:09:46,720 --> 00:09:49,439 Speaker 1: with someone with this person, how would you cope with it? 163 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,200 Speaker 1: Be Like it'd be horrible, I couldn't get out of 164 00:09:51,240 --> 00:09:53,240 Speaker 1: bed and blah blah blah, it's gonna last forever. My 165 00:09:53,240 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 1: heart will always be broken. And then going back and 166 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: asking them after the breakup, like how did you fare? 167 00:09:57,880 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: And they were like, yeah, it was bad, but I 168 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 1: got on with And it's that same durability bias that 169 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:09,400 Speaker 1: leads us to maybe overblow the impact of emptiness syndrome. Yeah. 170 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:13,360 Speaker 1: And Karen Rubinstein, who's a social psychologist, same thing. Most 171 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 1: moms that she talked to, especially those who didn't work 172 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 1: outside the home in particular, they were sad and lonely 173 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: in their first few you know, days or weeks that 174 00:10:21,880 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 1: the kids were gone, But it really didn't take long 175 00:10:24,320 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 1: to rediscover all of those opportunities that you have in 176 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: life without having kids at home every day. Yeah, And 177 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: speaking of opportunities, one of the upsides that's often sided 178 00:10:34,280 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: with the kids leaving home, and I think that my 179 00:10:37,120 --> 00:10:41,679 Speaker 1: parents was seeing them experience this as well, is it 180 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: gives a new uh and it's a new chapter in 181 00:10:45,000 --> 00:10:47,599 Speaker 1: a relationship, which can be I mean it can be 182 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: a deal breaker because the divorce rates do tend to 183 00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 1: go up once the kids leave the home. But for 184 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:55,520 Speaker 1: a lot of couples as well. It's um, it's a 185 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,160 Speaker 1: it's spices things up in a way, right, And in 186 00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,840 Speaker 1: a psychological science are Goal two thousand and eight, most 187 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,359 Speaker 1: couples they found experienced a higher rate of marital satisfaction 188 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,120 Speaker 1: because they had more time together. But it wasn't just 189 00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 1: that extra time together. It was really quality over quantity, 190 00:11:11,679 --> 00:11:14,240 Speaker 1: because not only did you have more time with each 191 00:11:14,280 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: other without the kids, but you could do more things 192 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: that were just about each other. So when they say that, 193 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 1: you know, women were less taxed with housework and taking 194 00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: care of the kids and everything, they could maybe actually 195 00:11:27,120 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 1: enjoy their spouse time together. Yeah. So, and I could 196 00:11:30,640 --> 00:11:32,760 Speaker 1: see how that could be a scary prospect as well, 197 00:11:32,760 --> 00:11:35,440 Speaker 1: because it's like, oh, what do we talk about since 198 00:11:35,480 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: the kids aren't here? Well, yeah, speaking of talking. Kevin Kerber, 199 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,320 Speaker 1: a clinical psychologist, says that during this period, communication is 200 00:11:42,400 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: crucial because, just like Kristen said, the divorce rates do 201 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 1: tend to rise when kids leave the home, so couples 202 00:11:49,360 --> 00:11:53,079 Speaker 1: sometimes have to renegotiate their marriage and find new patterns, 203 00:11:53,120 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 1: new things to do, whether that's watching Terrible Terrible sitcoms 204 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,160 Speaker 1: or not. And Ma's young, I think my young sounds 205 00:12:01,200 --> 00:12:04,600 Speaker 1: like a wonderful coping mechanism. Indeed, that's just me also 206 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,920 Speaker 1: because it includes snacks. Um so, there are also some 207 00:12:09,120 --> 00:12:12,200 Speaker 1: tips out there because, like we've said that, the feeling 208 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:16,840 Speaker 1: of loss when the kids leave the home, that's probably inevitable, 209 00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:20,280 Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a it's a parenting milestone. But 210 00:12:20,360 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: there are some ways to or some things to keep 211 00:12:23,840 --> 00:12:26,440 Speaker 1: in mind as it approaches to help you make that 212 00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,240 Speaker 1: transition perhaps a little more smoothly. And this is coming 213 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: from Brad Stacks, who we've sited earlier. He wrote the 214 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: book Emptying the Nest Launching your Young Adult towards Success 215 00:12:38,000 --> 00:12:41,880 Speaker 1: and Self Reliance. That's that's a nice title, yea. And 216 00:12:41,880 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 1: what an accomplishment that must be. Just like yes, um so, yeah, 217 00:12:47,880 --> 00:12:50,960 Speaker 1: he says, prepare yourself to experience a range of sometimes 218 00:12:51,000 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 1: contradictory emotions. It is a better sweet experience. On the 219 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,959 Speaker 1: one hand, your kid is leaving. On the other hand, whoa, 220 00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,120 Speaker 1: your kid is leaving. Yeah, I'm sure my mom is 221 00:13:01,160 --> 00:13:04,480 Speaker 1: not miss doing my laundry. You know what, my mother 222 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:06,679 Speaker 1: still I am twenty eight years old, I have my 223 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,720 Speaker 1: an apartment, I have my own washing and dryer. She 224 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,719 Speaker 1: still says things like, oh, um, well, if you want 225 00:13:11,720 --> 00:13:13,439 Speaker 1: to bring your laundry home, I'll do it. I'm like, Mom, 226 00:13:13,440 --> 00:13:16,000 Speaker 1: I'm coming home for dinner for two hours. Oh yeah. 227 00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:19,760 Speaker 1: I'm not saying I don't bring my laundry home, because 228 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:21,959 Speaker 1: I do. But I'm just saying she brought into it 229 00:13:22,360 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: doing it as often because yes, my mom to the 230 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,240 Speaker 1: laundry in my home. Yeah, sid of mine does mine, 231 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: mine does still currently. Uh So. In addition to the 232 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:37,040 Speaker 1: mixed emotions, also um, being respectful and patient with you know, 233 00:13:37,080 --> 00:13:40,760 Speaker 1: the kid who's leaving homes feelings, because I remember when 234 00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,560 Speaker 1: I was going off to college and buy off. I 235 00:13:43,600 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: mean like it was literally a few miles down the road, 236 00:13:46,720 --> 00:13:50,560 Speaker 1: brave soul that I was. Um, but I was I 237 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:52,880 Speaker 1: couldn't wait. You know, it was no big deal to me. 238 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:56,320 Speaker 1: They were super close by. I didn't, you know, I 239 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:58,800 Speaker 1: really could kind of care less of the time. I 240 00:13:58,840 --> 00:14:01,800 Speaker 1: was just like, oh yeah, lives that would be so cool, 241 00:14:01,920 --> 00:14:04,360 Speaker 1: like a movie that takes place at college. You were 242 00:14:04,400 --> 00:14:09,840 Speaker 1: a surfer dude when you were eight. Um yeah. Sax 243 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,760 Speaker 1: also recommends talking not only with your kid about the 244 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:14,560 Speaker 1: kind of contact you want to have while he or 245 00:14:14,559 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 1: she is away, but also talking with your spouse about 246 00:14:17,600 --> 00:14:20,480 Speaker 1: how the two of you should reconnect and move forward 247 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: because things are gonna be different. Well yeah, and I 248 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 1: felt like to one giant gap in this research was 249 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: not taking too into account how this impacts like single 250 00:14:32,920 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 1: parent homes. I can imagine that, you know, if if 251 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:40,360 Speaker 1: you don't have um like a spouse or a partner 252 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:44,480 Speaker 1: who's in the house, maybe emptiness syndrome is even even 253 00:14:44,520 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: harder to deal with. It makes me think about the 254 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,720 Speaker 1: Gilmore Girls. Not to just reference television constantly in this episode, 255 00:14:50,800 --> 00:14:54,040 Speaker 1: but you know, like there were pals and then one 256 00:14:54,160 --> 00:14:56,680 Speaker 1: goes and what's we're allowed to do? I don't know. 257 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,800 Speaker 1: It doesn't doesn't she get with the guy who owns 258 00:14:58,840 --> 00:15:02,480 Speaker 1: the store or the restaurant. Maybe that's what happens. It 259 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,720 Speaker 1: launches you into a romantic plotline. You lose your daughter, 260 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 1: but you get a very handsome man who wears a 261 00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 1: ball cap all the time. There we go. There's the 262 00:15:09,720 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: upside um. But we mentioned the recession earlier, and I 263 00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 1: think that in the age that we are in now, 264 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,920 Speaker 1: where the economy for these kids who are leaving home, 265 00:15:22,960 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 1: the job prospects have become a lot more uncertain. Perhaps 266 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: emptiness syndrome is not as much of a threat because 267 00:15:31,760 --> 00:15:36,000 Speaker 1: so many kids are flying the coop only to flit 268 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,840 Speaker 1: back home. Yeah, the CENSUSPIA found that between two thousand 269 00:15:40,960 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: seven and the number of adult children living with parents 270 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:49,000 Speaker 1: rose by one point two million, up to fifteen point 271 00:15:49,120 --> 00:15:52,480 Speaker 1: eight million. That's a lot of kids. It is a 272 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 1: lot of kids. And that that report also found that 273 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,440 Speaker 1: thirty point one percent of Americans aged eighteen and over 274 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:01,720 Speaker 1: lived in in a shared household, and that's with family 275 00:16:01,760 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: members were worth unrelated roommates. And even that number is 276 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:10,720 Speaker 1: up from twenty seven point seven percent in two thousand seven. 277 00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:13,120 Speaker 1: Lots of sevens. Yeah, I well, I was one of 278 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:15,960 Speaker 1: those kids who came back. I moved back home after 279 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:17,800 Speaker 1: college for a couple of months before I got my 280 00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:21,480 Speaker 1: newspaper job in Augusta. So I went there for several 281 00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:26,520 Speaker 1: dart period dart period in my life of years. Um 282 00:16:26,640 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 1: and I actually after I quit that job, I moved 283 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:30,480 Speaker 1: home because I just quit with nothing lined up like 284 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,960 Speaker 1: a like a smarty pants that I am loot with 285 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: my parents for like seven months. And so when I 286 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:40,680 Speaker 1: moved out again after I got this job, my mom 287 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,840 Speaker 1: had empty Neugh syndrome all over again. Yeah, I can imagine. 288 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: I've I've had at certain times, I've had conversations with 289 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 1: my parents of like, you know, they say like, if 290 00:16:50,120 --> 00:16:52,280 Speaker 1: you ever need to move home, if you you know, 291 00:16:52,320 --> 00:16:55,760 Speaker 1: if something doesn't work out, and I feel like there, 292 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,440 Speaker 1: you know, a tiny speck in the back of their 293 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 1: mind is like it would be that we've still got 294 00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: your room. My room is still intact. We'll get you 295 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:09,199 Speaker 1: another ferret. I don't know if I can handle another ferret, 296 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: but then that means that I would probably be raising 297 00:17:12,119 --> 00:17:16,719 Speaker 1: butterflies with my mom. So great gardens indeed take up 298 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:21,920 Speaker 1: Jean and monarchs. Uh, just accelerating my my life path. 299 00:17:22,119 --> 00:17:25,159 Speaker 1: So um so empty nesters out there. I know that 300 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,960 Speaker 1: we have um some older listeners. I'll be curious to 301 00:17:29,040 --> 00:17:31,719 Speaker 1: hear from any folks who have who have seen those 302 00:17:32,080 --> 00:17:36,480 Speaker 1: those little robins fly the nest into the great beyond 303 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,439 Speaker 1: um and how how that affects on the on the 304 00:17:39,480 --> 00:17:41,720 Speaker 1: parental side. Like obviously you and I can speak to 305 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:43,880 Speaker 1: what goes on on the kid's side of leaving and 306 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: negotiating that end of the relationship, but we'd like to 307 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,240 Speaker 1: hear from parents as well. And parents of kids who 308 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:55,960 Speaker 1: like anticipating having an emptiness? What is that like? Because 309 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure for some people it must be daunting. Are 310 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,320 Speaker 1: you are you excited or are you bummed? Or it's 311 00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:04,920 Speaker 1: a little bit of both. Well, let us know, mom. 312 00:18:05,040 --> 00:18:07,800 Speaker 1: Stuff at Discovery dot com is where you can send 313 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:09,879 Speaker 1: your letters, and of course you can also leave a 314 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,199 Speaker 1: comment on Facebook as well. And before we get to 315 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:17,919 Speaker 1: your letters, got a quick message here from this episode's sponsor, 316 00:18:18,040 --> 00:18:24,959 Speaker 1: which is Jack Threads dot com. And speaking of kids, 317 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 1: if there is a young or older man in your 318 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:32,600 Speaker 1: household in new need of a wardrobe refresh, perhaps we 319 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:38,160 Speaker 1: recommend heading over to www dot Jack Threads dot com 320 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:43,880 Speaker 1: slash mom to check out their killer contemporary and street apparel, 321 00:18:43,920 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: accessories and gadgets from brands like Penguin, Ben Sherman and Converse. 322 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,720 Speaker 1: And you want to head over there because everything on 323 00:18:51,760 --> 00:18:54,479 Speaker 1: the site is up to eight percent off, because, as 324 00:18:54,560 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 1: Jack Threads likes to say, full price is for suckers. 325 00:18:58,560 --> 00:19:01,560 Speaker 1: So you want to head over to accreds dot com 326 00:19:01,800 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 1: slash mom and get you some new duds. Now back 327 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:14,160 Speaker 1: to our letters, Well, Kristen, I have a ghost story 328 00:19:14,160 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 1: email here from Nicole. She She references both the sleep 329 00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:21,359 Speaker 1: paralysis and the ghosts that we touched on in that episode. 330 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,960 Speaker 1: So she says, first off, I used to have bouts 331 00:19:24,960 --> 00:19:27,720 Speaker 1: of sleep paralysis when I was a teen. I specifically 332 00:19:27,720 --> 00:19:29,760 Speaker 1: remember waking up twice in the middle of the night, 333 00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: once with the feeling I couldn't move, and I tried 334 00:19:31,760 --> 00:19:34,919 Speaker 1: to call out to my parents without success. Strangely, I 335 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,280 Speaker 1: fell back to sleep after realizing I couldn't do anything. 336 00:19:37,640 --> 00:19:40,000 Speaker 1: The second time this happened, I remember feeling like someone 337 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 1: was in the room with me, and my eyes immediately 338 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,639 Speaker 1: went to a chair I had in my bedroom. Again, 339 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: I tried to call out to my parents, only to 340 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:51,240 Speaker 1: fall back asleep. Secondly, as for ghost stories, I have 341 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: a few, but I'll share my favorite. When I was 342 00:19:53,520 --> 00:19:56,399 Speaker 1: a teen, my brother had passed away unexpectedly during the 343 00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,119 Speaker 1: fall season. I didn't think much of ghost or anything 344 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,320 Speaker 1: of that matter, but of course our entire family was 345 00:20:01,320 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: grieving at the loss. Yet I remember times of suddenly 346 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:06,920 Speaker 1: smelling a strong scent of vanilla in a room, which 347 00:20:06,960 --> 00:20:09,959 Speaker 1: was the scent always associated with my brother. It wouldn't 348 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,040 Speaker 1: be from walking into a room, but actually being in 349 00:20:12,040 --> 00:20:14,040 Speaker 1: a room for a period of time, and suddenly the 350 00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 1: smell overwhelmed you. While this was going on, I began 351 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:19,240 Speaker 1: to hear my name being called. I would sit in 352 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:21,840 Speaker 1: my bedroom doing homework or doodling, and I would hear 353 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:23,800 Speaker 1: someone say my name, as if they were calling me 354 00:20:23,800 --> 00:20:26,520 Speaker 1: into the other room. I would open my bedroom door, 355 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 1: walk into the living room and ask my mom and 356 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,840 Speaker 1: dad what they needed. She and my father both would 357 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:32,919 Speaker 1: deny that they had called me. And this continued on 358 00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: and on. I started to think maybe it was my brother, 359 00:20:35,720 --> 00:20:38,159 Speaker 1: So when I would have these two specific things happened, 360 00:20:38,400 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: I would say hello to him and let him know 361 00:20:40,440 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 1: I knew he was there, whether this was me dealing 362 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: with my grief or actually my brother contacting me from 363 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,639 Speaker 1: the beyond. It helped me deal with this loss and 364 00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 1: realized that he was always there as he promised to be. 365 00:20:50,840 --> 00:20:54,360 Speaker 1: Thank you, Jennifer, and I've got an email here from Sarah, 366 00:20:54,359 --> 00:20:58,160 Speaker 1: a quick one about sleep walking. She writes, your episode 367 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,280 Speaker 1: on sleepwalking just freaked the mom's side of me out. 368 00:21:01,280 --> 00:21:05,159 Speaker 1: Oh no, My daughter, currently sixteen months, has night terrors 369 00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:08,280 Speaker 1: every couple of months. I wish I knew why it happened, 370 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:10,679 Speaker 1: but I'm beginning to wonder if it's linked to my 371 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: husband's sleepwalking. He's been doing it since he was a kid. 372 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:16,639 Speaker 1: After your podcast, I'm now worried she's going to do 373 00:21:16,680 --> 00:21:19,720 Speaker 1: the same. She suffers from all allergies and her dad 374 00:21:19,840 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 1: is a sleepwalker. Oh boy son, oh dear, Just don't 375 00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: get any fare. I was about to say, yeah, I mean, 376 00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 1: it's yeah, it's no big deal, and maybe it's kind 377 00:21:30,119 --> 00:21:33,439 Speaker 1: of funny. So that's something perhaps to look forward to. 378 00:21:33,560 --> 00:21:36,159 Speaker 1: And then you can look forward to her leaving the 379 00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:39,800 Speaker 1: house and not sleepwalking anymore to temper the possibility of 380 00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,760 Speaker 1: emptiness syndrome. Here we go. We just solved every possible problem. Bam. 381 00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 1: You are welcome. So for that, why don't you head 382 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: over to Facebook and like us and follow us on 383 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 1: Twitter at Mom's Stuff podcast, And also, because that's not enough, 384 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: follow us on Tumbler as well. It's stuff Mom Never 385 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:58,960 Speaker 1: told you dot tumbler dot com, where we post a 386 00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: lot of cool stuff. And speaking of cool stuff, you 387 00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:03,560 Speaker 1: can find a lot of that on our website, It's 388 00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:09,119 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com for more on this and 389 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 1: thousands of other topics. Is it how stuff Works dot com.