1 00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,480 Speaker 1: Too Much Information is a production of I Heart Radio. 2 00:00:09,360 --> 00:00:12,680 Speaker 1: Hello everyone, and welcome to Too Much Information, the show 3 00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:15,560 Speaker 1: that brings you the secret histories and little known fascinating 4 00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: facts and figures behind your favorite movies, music, TV shows, 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:24,279 Speaker 1: and more. We're your two ghosts of podcast future, podcasts, future, 6 00:00:24,760 --> 00:00:28,400 Speaker 1: either way, it's good. I'm Alex Sigel and I'm Jordan 7 00:00:28,520 --> 00:00:31,000 Speaker 1: run Tug and Jordan's Today we're kicking off the holiday 8 00:00:31,080 --> 00:00:34,640 Speaker 1: season with a relatively I say relatively, but yes, we're old, 9 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 1: relatively recent entry into the Cannon, the Holiday Cannon. That 10 00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: is the movie that taught us late period Michael Caine 11 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,360 Speaker 1: could still summon some of his Get Carter era menace 12 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:47,959 Speaker 1: even while he was surrounded by felt frogs. That's right, 13 00:00:48,920 --> 00:00:51,599 Speaker 1: we're talking about The Muppet Christmas Carol, the first Muppets 14 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:53,880 Speaker 1: film to be released following the death of both Jim 15 00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: Henson and longtime muppeteer Richard Hunt, and the first directed 16 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:02,360 Speaker 1: by Henson's son Bryant. Like most American children of a 17 00:01:02,360 --> 00:01:04,880 Speaker 1: certain age, I got the Muppets through my older cousins 18 00:01:04,880 --> 00:01:07,679 Speaker 1: and parents were talking like Muppet Show some of the 19 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:11,520 Speaker 1: first movies. So Muppets Christmas Carols for me really like 20 00:01:11,680 --> 00:01:15,080 Speaker 1: the first of these movies that felt like mine, like 21 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: that I grew up with, got it on the ground 22 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:21,680 Speaker 1: floor with I agree completely as a Michael Caine devotee 23 00:01:21,840 --> 00:01:25,200 Speaker 1: and a Muppets fan. This is like, I mean, it 24 00:01:25,280 --> 00:01:27,400 Speaker 1: is like Christmas for you. But where's this movie? Where 25 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,679 Speaker 1: does this movie sit for you? Somewhere north of Citizen Kane? 26 00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 1: I mean it, it it is definitely up there for me. 27 00:01:32,959 --> 00:01:35,520 Speaker 1: I mean, I'm wary of playing the whole You know, 28 00:01:35,640 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 1: this children's movie traumatized me card too much because I 29 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:40,720 Speaker 1: get the sense that that's sort of like it or 30 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 1: not become my thing given Uh you know Fern Gully. Uh. 31 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: What else have we discussed? We had a few on 32 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:49,800 Speaker 1: the shows uPAR Almost all of them hurt you in 33 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: some way. Jordan's Yeah, I mean, but this movie truly 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 1: not for kids. It packs an adult size punched I 35 00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:02,600 Speaker 1: remember the scenes when Scrooge is revisiting his past and 36 00:02:03,120 --> 00:02:07,200 Speaker 1: they introduced me to the concept of regret as a kindergartener, which, Uh, 37 00:02:07,840 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: that's a hell of a thing, perhaps second only to 38 00:02:10,360 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 1: death as one of life's great bummers. Uh, speaking to 39 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,320 Speaker 1: much lots of death in this movie. The Ghost of 40 00:02:16,360 --> 00:02:19,120 Speaker 1: Christmas Future is basically the Grim Reaper, right, and he 41 00:02:19,160 --> 00:02:22,000 Speaker 1: takes Scrooge to his grave horrifying. They were going to 42 00:02:22,080 --> 00:02:24,560 Speaker 1: have Gonzo play that character, but they were just they 43 00:02:24,560 --> 00:02:26,440 Speaker 1: were still going to go with the same wardrobe. But 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:32,119 Speaker 1: that's pretty good. Actually, yeah, yeah they You know what's 45 00:02:32,160 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 1: the viral tweet that makes the rounds every Christmas? Yeah, 46 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 1: Michael Caine, I'm gonna play this as serious as a 47 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,480 Speaker 1: heart attack. And by god, he does. I mean, for me, 48 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:44,400 Speaker 1: the moment that I returned to if I ever needed to, 49 00:02:44,440 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: like summon tears during high school theatrical productions or whatever 50 00:02:49,440 --> 00:02:50,920 Speaker 1: was I'm gonna I don't even know if I can 51 00:02:50,960 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 1: say it the same when Beaker, as whatever Dickenzie and 52 00:02:54,200 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: character he's meant to be playing, offers Scrooge his scarf 53 00:02:57,480 --> 00:03:00,600 Speaker 1: as a gift, and Scrooge is just stun because no 54 00:03:00,639 --> 00:03:04,000 Speaker 1: one's ever given him a gift before. I I can't 55 00:03:04,000 --> 00:03:07,920 Speaker 1: continue this anecdote because of my rapidly constricting throat, but 56 00:03:08,800 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: damn a dramatic tour de force. I still hear one 57 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,120 Speaker 1: more sleep till Christmas every Christmas Eve, even though I'm 58 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,639 Speaker 1: about to be thirty five. Ah yeah, the older I 59 00:03:17,680 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: get the more I realized that Scrooge gets the best 60 00:03:20,080 --> 00:03:23,160 Speaker 1: present of all, waking up on Christmas Day and all 61 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:27,680 Speaker 1: of his poor life choices have been erased and everything 62 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:31,280 Speaker 1: is better. Well from the protracted process that it took 63 00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:34,639 Speaker 1: for I'm Muppeteer to rally and take over the role 64 00:03:34,680 --> 00:03:37,400 Speaker 1: of kerment to the character who's lot in life in 65 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 1: this movie was solely to be abused me to Michael 66 00:03:42,200 --> 00:03:47,280 Speaker 1: Caine's continuing war against blinking. Here's everything you didn't know 67 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:57,120 Speaker 1: about the Muppet Christmas Carol. Jim Henson died at the 68 00:03:57,120 --> 00:03:59,920 Speaker 1: age of fifty three in New York from strup to 69 00:04:00,040 --> 00:04:04,960 Speaker 1: cockle toxic shock syndrome on May six. He had been 70 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 1: negotiating with Michael Eisner, then the head of Disney, about 71 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:13,119 Speaker 1: selling the Muppets. Frank Oz never went to mince words. 72 00:04:13,480 --> 00:04:17,039 Speaker 1: I told the Guardian, the Disney deal is probably what 73 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:20,080 Speaker 1: killed Jim. It made him sick. Eisner was trying to 74 00:04:20,120 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: get Sesame Street to which Jim wouldn't allow. But Jim 75 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:25,480 Speaker 1: was not a dealer. He was an artist and it 76 00:04:25,520 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 1: was destroying him. It really was just always got to 77 00:04:29,200 --> 00:04:31,680 Speaker 1: get in a jab in at Disney. We got Catzenberg 78 00:04:31,720 --> 00:04:35,719 Speaker 1: coming later. Don't worry for those of you keeping a 79 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:39,839 Speaker 1: sharp Katzenberg watch Enemy of the Pod. Jeffrey Katzenberg will 80 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: surface later. Um. Brian Henson told up rocks In my 81 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 1: father died while he was making the Muppet three D 82 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,839 Speaker 1: movie Attraction for Disney, and Frank Oz finished that movie 83 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,919 Speaker 1: for my dad after my dad passed away. Gonzo and 84 00:04:53,960 --> 00:04:57,799 Speaker 1: Waldorf performer Dave Golds told The Guardian two thousand fifteen 85 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:01,240 Speaker 1: that Jim died very suddenly and we we're just flattened 86 00:05:01,240 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: by it. Brian called a meeting to see whether we 87 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,560 Speaker 1: wanted to continue without Jim, and every single one of 88 00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: us said, it just feels like our life's work and 89 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: we'd like to try and go ahead. That was about 90 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:16,320 Speaker 1: five pm on the day he died. How do we 91 00:05:16,360 --> 00:05:22,599 Speaker 1: feel about that? Imagine imagine your work calling that level 92 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 1: of meeting. Good lord anyway, But I mean I would 93 00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:31,080 Speaker 1: pray to have dumb work that people felt was so 94 00:05:31,160 --> 00:05:33,599 Speaker 1: important that need to be continued after I was gone. 95 00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:37,080 Speaker 1: So he goes both ways. Henson's son Brian told The 96 00:05:37,080 --> 00:05:39,839 Speaker 1: Guardian Jim had done three Muppet movies and I didn't 97 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,599 Speaker 1: want too much of a direct comparison between me and 98 00:05:42,640 --> 00:05:46,200 Speaker 1: my dad. So I thought, let's do something different. Our agent, 99 00:05:46,320 --> 00:05:48,880 Speaker 1: Bill Haber said to me, Christmas Carroll is the greatest 100 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: story of all time. You should do that. While I 101 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: was thinking about it, he called me back and said, 102 00:05:54,279 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 1: I've sold it to the ABC TV channel. It was 103 00:05:57,279 --> 00:05:59,840 Speaker 1: Jim Henson's body even cold. Yet when they were making 104 00:05:59,839 --> 00:06:04,720 Speaker 1: this steal got moved fast man. Brian continued to up rocks. 105 00:06:04,839 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: It was terrifying at the time, and it was a 106 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:09,680 Speaker 1: lot of pressure to take over. Just to be running 107 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:11,839 Speaker 1: the company was already a big pressure for me. And 108 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I did not want to direct them 109 00:06:14,160 --> 00:06:16,479 Speaker 1: up at Christmas Carol. I had approached a couple of 110 00:06:16,520 --> 00:06:19,159 Speaker 1: other directors who are favorites of mine and favorites of 111 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 1: my father's, and they both said, no, you should do it. 112 00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:24,480 Speaker 1: At the time, I was really quite terrified of it. 113 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:27,039 Speaker 1: I also felt like I have a lot I need 114 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:30,159 Speaker 1: to already be doing trying to run the company. Honestly, 115 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: it was like I had to direct it because that 116 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:34,960 Speaker 1: was just what everybody was saying. Everybody was saying, no, Brian, 117 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:38,159 Speaker 1: you directed, you directed. I had not directed a feature, 118 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,240 Speaker 1: and my morning the loss of my father, I feel 119 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: like it's a crucial thing that he should have in 120 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:47,039 Speaker 1: there too. Several leads in there were buried. My father 121 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,599 Speaker 1: just died, and I have never directed a movie before, 122 00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: he said. I had directed television and second units on features, 123 00:06:53,480 --> 00:06:55,320 Speaker 1: but it was definitely a big step for me. It 124 00:06:55,440 --> 00:06:57,280 Speaker 1: was scary and I didn't want to screw it up. 125 00:06:57,800 --> 00:07:01,679 Speaker 1: He acquitted himself very well, though, Goals told The Guardian 126 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: Michael Caine got halfway through the film before he found 127 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:09,240 Speaker 1: out it was Brian's first time directing. He couldn't believe it. Yeah, 128 00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,720 Speaker 1: I mean, Brian Henson has kind of become I don't 129 00:07:11,720 --> 00:07:14,520 Speaker 1: know for any music fans like that, the Giles Martin 130 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: of the Muppets kind of the custodian of his father's legacy, 131 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: overseeing like what Giles Martin does for the Beatles. His 132 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: father was George Martin, the Beatles producer. I know he 133 00:07:23,640 --> 00:07:25,960 Speaker 1: has his detractors and he has his fans, but he's 134 00:07:26,000 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: done a hell of a lot to keep the Muppets 135 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:32,360 Speaker 1: um going in the wake of his father's death. This 136 00:07:32,440 --> 00:07:34,280 Speaker 1: is the first Muppet movie with a human in the 137 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: starring role, and initially they didn't have Gonzo in his 138 00:07:37,720 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: Charles Dickens, the writer of the Christmas Carol. In fact, 139 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:42,560 Speaker 1: they were also just aiming for a completely different tone 140 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 1: to begin with. Um in these early development stages, Henson said, 141 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,040 Speaker 1: the Muppets are famous for questioning the status quo and 142 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: anti establishment irreverence. So we took that and pointed it 143 00:07:53,960 --> 00:08:00,240 Speaker 1: at Charles Dickens. The Muppets aren't the weather underground. We 144 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 1: were going to do a parody and to that end, Uh, 145 00:08:03,560 --> 00:08:05,640 Speaker 1: they were going to have a muppet version of Charles 146 00:08:05,680 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: Dickens doing the narration, and they were going to fill 147 00:08:07,480 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 1: in all the stories roles with the Muppets, so like 148 00:08:10,080 --> 00:08:12,160 Speaker 1: they were going to have a custom made muppet being 149 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:15,160 Speaker 1: the Charles Dickens character, you mean, And they were going 150 00:08:15,200 --> 00:08:19,560 Speaker 1: to have Miss Piggy and is the Ghost of Christmas present? Uh? 151 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 1: With Gonzo said to play the Ghost of Christmas future? 152 00:08:24,680 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: And Uh, either Robin Kermit's nephew or Scooter as the 153 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,000 Speaker 1: Ghost of Christmas past. Oh yeah, didn't the actor playing 154 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,480 Speaker 1: Scooter die? And they decided to write them out just 155 00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:38,440 Speaker 1: sort of like in Tribute And that was why there's 156 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,000 Speaker 1: no Scooter in this movie. You are correct about that. 157 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:45,959 Speaker 1: Jordan's Scooter is was puppeteered by muppeteered by Richard Hunt, 158 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:48,839 Speaker 1: who died in I think he just died two. He's 159 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:50,720 Speaker 1: one of the people that the film is dedicated to. 160 00:08:51,440 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 1: So no Scooter. But what happened was that the screenwriter, 161 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:57,800 Speaker 1: guy by the name of Jerry Jewel, was so in 162 00:08:57,840 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 1: love with the book. Brian said. His feeling was, look, 163 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 1: the Dickens dialogue is absolutely fantastic, as we all know 164 00:09:03,880 --> 00:09:06,480 Speaker 1: from all the movies and stage shows, but the Dickens prose, 165 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 1: when Dickens describes a scene or describes a character, it's 166 00:09:10,040 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: so so good. He said, I want to put in 167 00:09:12,880 --> 00:09:15,560 Speaker 1: a character that is Charles Dickens, And then we thought, 168 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,240 Speaker 1: who's the least likely in order to make it funny. 169 00:09:18,640 --> 00:09:23,000 Speaker 1: Gonzo was basically the least likely choice to play Charles Dickens. 170 00:09:23,040 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: But pretty much everything that Gonzo says is straight out 171 00:09:26,360 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 1: of the book. Probably of his dialogue is Dickens pros 172 00:09:30,760 --> 00:09:33,320 Speaker 1: and maybe five percent are little sides and quips that 173 00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: we threw in there. This makes the Muppet Christmas Carol 174 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:41,200 Speaker 1: one of, if not the most faithful adaptation of the 175 00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: of the original book, and they even found ways to 176 00:09:44,280 --> 00:09:47,960 Speaker 1: sneak in nods to some of Dickens more weird turns 177 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:53,640 Speaker 1: of phrase in there. There's a he's describing Ebeneezer's sense 178 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,120 Speaker 1: of a room is a sense of darkness, and the 179 00:09:56,520 --> 00:10:00,360 Speaker 1: line is like bad lobster in a dark cell Lert 180 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:04,040 Speaker 1: and so you can as the camera pans across London, 181 00:10:04,120 --> 00:10:08,120 Speaker 1: you can see in the background a lobster hanging out 182 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,480 Speaker 1: of a basement window. So that is an incredibly deep 183 00:10:11,559 --> 00:10:14,720 Speaker 1: cut reference that they threw into their the original pros. 184 00:10:15,320 --> 00:10:17,839 Speaker 1: So you had another good line. Darkness was cheap and 185 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:24,319 Speaker 1: Scrooge liked it most from its Christmas Carol. As we 186 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,320 Speaker 1: put Gonzo in as the narrator. As it started coming together, 187 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: we were thinking, you know what, this really becomes an 188 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:32,920 Speaker 1: opportunity for a great actor to do their Ebenezer Scrooge. 189 00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:36,400 Speaker 1: Henson told up Rocks. Among the actors considered for the 190 00:10:36,480 --> 00:10:39,319 Speaker 1: lead role where David Warner, Ron Moody a k a. 191 00:10:39,440 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: Fagin from The Nite Oliver and David Hemmings from Blow Up. 192 00:10:44,640 --> 00:10:48,319 Speaker 1: And I've also seen Peter O'Toole's name floating around as 193 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:51,199 Speaker 1: it also ran. And I was not able to pin 194 00:10:51,280 --> 00:10:54,200 Speaker 1: down where this originally came from, but they apparently got 195 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: George Carlin in there as far as a screen test, 196 00:10:57,960 --> 00:10:59,720 Speaker 1: which does make sense because he would have just been 197 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,920 Speaker 1: coming off of the US conductor in the Shiningtown Station 198 00:11:03,640 --> 00:11:08,080 Speaker 1: Bill and Ted as well. Yeah, so George Carlin was 199 00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:10,880 Speaker 1: was having a moment on the screens both large and small. 200 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:14,040 Speaker 1: I thought he would have been great, honestly, and Michael 201 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: Caine is perfect, but I'm I'm actually dying to see 202 00:11:16,960 --> 00:11:20,080 Speaker 1: George Carlin play Scrooge. That would be amazing. And I 203 00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: have also read that Jack Lemon. They approached Jack Lemon 204 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: to play Scrooge, and he wanted to play Kermit, and 205 00:11:26,360 --> 00:11:30,080 Speaker 1: they were like, are you do you know how this works? Like, no, 206 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: I mean, he would be a very good Kermit. It's true, 207 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:37,439 Speaker 1: But Henson said that they only ever got as far 208 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:40,680 Speaker 1: as making an offer to Michael Caine, who was apparently 209 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 1: motivated to do this by the fact that he hadn't 210 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:45,840 Speaker 1: yet done a movie his then seven year old daughter 211 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:50,120 Speaker 1: could see him in. Is sad, also kind of nuts 212 00:11:50,160 --> 00:11:54,200 Speaker 1: that he had a seven year granddaughter. Grand daughter. I 213 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:57,800 Speaker 1: don't know he could have had a seven year old daughter. Yeah, 214 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,280 Speaker 1: I mean, hang on, it's gonna be such a bummer 215 00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: when he goes Man, Right, you're gonna cry right now. 216 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: I can't think would have actually seen him in Beyond 217 00:12:08,080 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 1: Get Carter Italian job. Oh yeah, Alfie, I'm only supposed 218 00:12:13,040 --> 00:12:15,360 Speaker 1: to blow the bloody doors off. Yeah, we gotta work 219 00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:19,480 Speaker 1: that in here. Um, yes, that's what he says. My daughter, 220 00:12:19,760 --> 00:12:22,840 Speaker 1: who was the mother of my grandchildren, was then seven 221 00:12:23,120 --> 00:12:24,920 Speaker 1: and she had never made see me in a movie. 222 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: My daughtr was the mother of my grand's. Usually how 223 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,880 Speaker 1: it works, Michael, I mean this was a recent interview. 224 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:34,440 Speaker 1: He's probably you know, okay, Yeah, I think I also 225 00:12:34,480 --> 00:12:35,960 Speaker 1: read that he was kind of pissed that he missed 226 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,400 Speaker 1: out on appearing on the original Muppet Show, which had 227 00:12:38,440 --> 00:12:41,080 Speaker 1: filmed in England back in the mid seventies. But he 228 00:12:41,120 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: was living in the US as a tax exile as 229 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: the time, and like all of his British friends like 230 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: Peter Sellers all were on the Muppet Show and said 231 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:50,920 Speaker 1: it was a blast, and he was bummed he missed out. Yeah, 232 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: and uh, in the very first meeting, this is the 233 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:58,000 Speaker 1: the most oft told part of him being in this movie, 234 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:01,800 Speaker 1: um Henson. As in the first meeting he said, Brian, 235 00:13:01,920 --> 00:13:03,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to play Scrooge like I'm acting with the 236 00:13:03,960 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: Royal Shakespeare Company. I'm never going to wink to the camera. 237 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: I'm not going to just my performance at all because 238 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: it's puppets. I'm going to pretend that this is a 239 00:13:12,200 --> 00:13:16,360 Speaker 1: very very sincere dramatic telling of the Christmas Carol, because 240 00:13:16,360 --> 00:13:19,920 Speaker 1: I think that will be the funniest choice. Not funny, 241 00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: just just just devastating. Did he also say that he 242 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: found this his most difficult and stretching role that he 243 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,040 Speaker 1: ever took. Something like that where we talked up this 244 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,160 Speaker 1: role in later years. Well, he had to contort himself 245 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:36,319 Speaker 1: because and there's some of the behind the scenes stuff 246 00:13:36,320 --> 00:13:38,320 Speaker 1: that you see. There's like a lot of you know, 247 00:13:38,360 --> 00:13:42,480 Speaker 1: because they're the muppets are controlled from below, and so 248 00:13:42,520 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 1: they had to have these like channels, yeah, channels cut 249 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 1: out of and removable panels cut out from all the flooring. 250 00:13:49,880 --> 00:13:52,319 Speaker 1: So there's he would have to almost like tightrope walk 251 00:13:52,559 --> 00:13:55,439 Speaker 1: while delivering all these lines so that the puppeteers had 252 00:13:55,480 --> 00:13:59,800 Speaker 1: space on either side of him. It's really wild. Uh oh, yeah, 253 00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:03,920 Speaker 1: he told this magazine. The list for the role, my 254 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:06,840 Speaker 1: basic role models came from watching CNN and seeing the 255 00:14:06,880 --> 00:14:10,440 Speaker 1: trials and tribulations of all the Wall Street cheats and embezzlers. 256 00:14:10,840 --> 00:14:13,400 Speaker 1: I thought they represented a very good picture of meanness 257 00:14:13,520 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: and greed. My Scrooge looks particularly irredeemable and is more 258 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:23,360 Speaker 1: psychotic than most. Ah. He also continued his Uh habit 259 00:14:23,400 --> 00:14:26,600 Speaker 1: of avoiding blinking in close ups. As we've covered before, 260 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: well we should. We should probably update people who maybe 261 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:32,560 Speaker 1: are just tuning in. Michael can Uh has a thing 262 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,880 Speaker 1: about not blinking. Supposedly it came from a book that 263 00:14:36,960 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: he had called Teach Yourself Film Acting, and it was 264 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: just horrible and there were a number of bullets. He 265 00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 1: it's like Daniel LaRusso learning karate out of a book. Uh. 266 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 1: There was a tip in there that said, never blink. 267 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: It weakens you, and he sent He said he spent 268 00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: the next eight years training himself not to do that. 269 00:14:55,880 --> 00:14:58,080 Speaker 1: He told the Mirror at one point, for the next 270 00:14:58,120 --> 00:15:01,040 Speaker 1: eight years, I walked around trying not to blink. People 271 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,280 Speaker 1: around me, my mother and everybody thought I had gone nuts. 272 00:15:04,600 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 1: They thought I was a psychopath. I used to frighten 273 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:10,560 Speaker 1: the life out of people. So he, I guess he 274 00:15:10,720 --> 00:15:12,600 Speaker 1: and you can I guess he still does it in 275 00:15:13,360 --> 00:15:16,520 Speaker 1: the Batman stuff. I don't know He cries a lot 276 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:20,640 Speaker 1: in The New Batman's when he's Outfred, so maybe it's softened. 277 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,880 Speaker 1: But yeah, you yeah, you have a favorite early internet 278 00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:29,400 Speaker 1: video that just loops him saying don't blink right something. 279 00:15:30,120 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: Either that or you're the man now dog. Yeah, there 280 00:15:32,360 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: was this basically how to act for dummies video tutorial 281 00:15:36,960 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 1: that Michael Caine made in the eighties that's out there 282 00:15:39,240 --> 00:15:42,760 Speaker 1: on YouTube, and it's it is just tremendous watch it. 283 00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:46,920 Speaker 1: It's so incredible just to watch this, you know, world 284 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:50,480 Speaker 1: class actor talking about just these like like how to 285 00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:52,680 Speaker 1: hit a mark and all these like really kind of 286 00:15:52,800 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: simple things about how to act camera. And yeah, he 287 00:15:55,880 --> 00:16:00,520 Speaker 1: talks at length about about about the except of not 288 00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:04,160 Speaker 1: blinking basically, which not really much of a concept. But 289 00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:08,360 Speaker 1: God love him. He very much enjoyed the experience. I mean, 290 00:16:08,400 --> 00:16:10,440 Speaker 1: he told g Q and this was this is many 291 00:16:10,480 --> 00:16:12,920 Speaker 1: years after the fact, this interview, he enjoyed the experience 292 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:15,800 Speaker 1: of making the Muppets Christmas Carol, not of not blinking. Yes, yes, 293 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,160 Speaker 1: he might have enjoyed that too. He said, acting with 294 00:16:19,240 --> 00:16:21,720 Speaker 1: Kermit was just like talking to a real actor. And 295 00:16:21,760 --> 00:16:25,000 Speaker 1: the guy is just down below, buried in the floor. Again, 296 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:28,320 Speaker 1: I love. He's like, I just imagine he's explaining this 297 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,400 Speaker 1: to the interviewer as if he thinks the interviewer has 298 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:32,600 Speaker 1: no idea how puppets wort to let you in on 299 00:16:32,680 --> 00:16:36,240 Speaker 1: a piece of movie making magic. There's a man below 300 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: Kermit controlling him anyway, he said. It's very funny when 301 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,200 Speaker 1: you see the puppeteers rehearsing because they're in the corner 302 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: and they haven't got the dolls on their arms, and 303 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:47,360 Speaker 1: they're just talking to each other with their hands. One 304 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: of the best things about puppeteers compared to actors is 305 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:54,280 Speaker 1: that they're They're much nicer, gentler, kinder people. They're really 306 00:16:54,320 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 1: the loveliest of people. I never worked with a cast 307 00:16:56,760 --> 00:16:59,280 Speaker 1: where every single person was lovely. You always get a 308 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:01,560 Speaker 1: couple of actors who think too much of themselves, but 309 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:04,720 Speaker 1: these were all kind, gentle, loving people, and I had 310 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:06,840 Speaker 1: the best time. I wish one of us could do 311 00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:09,080 Speaker 1: a Michael Caine impression, because I'm reading all of this 312 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:13,720 Speaker 1: as you say it in his head. Yeah, can you? 313 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:21,240 Speaker 1: Maybe I'm not. I haven't been drinking, so uh. There's 314 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:23,480 Speaker 1: one last connection with me and the muppets, he said. 315 00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,840 Speaker 1: I come from South London, with Charlie Chaplin, whom I 316 00:17:26,920 --> 00:17:30,240 Speaker 1: knew is from and the Muppets now have the Charlie 317 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:33,040 Speaker 1: Chaplin studio. Oh yeah, they've got a little statue of 318 00:17:33,080 --> 00:17:36,840 Speaker 1: Kermit up front, dressed as the trump real full circle moment, 319 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:39,719 Speaker 1: which is also it used to be the A and 320 00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:43,160 Speaker 1: M studios where the Carpenters recorded a lot of their 321 00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:46,840 Speaker 1: early songs, many of which were written by Paul Williams, 322 00:17:46,840 --> 00:17:48,880 Speaker 1: who will talk about later. He wrote the music for 323 00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:54,720 Speaker 1: this movie, Layers on Layers. We're going to take a 324 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: quick break, but we'll be right back with more. Too 325 00:17:57,280 --> 00:18:13,360 Speaker 1: much information in just a moment, speaking of Kermit, that's right. 326 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:19,400 Speaker 1: Casting Ebenezer Scrooge was relatively easy compared to recasting Kermit 327 00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:22,159 Speaker 1: in the wake of Jim Henson's death. Famously, Jim Henson 328 00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:25,879 Speaker 1: had been the creator and the voice of Kermit, and 329 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 1: he basically viewed Kermit as an extension of himself. So casting, 330 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: you know, you really had to kind of not only 331 00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 1: nail the voice, but really get the spirit of Jim there. 332 00:18:37,080 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: I mean, these puppeteers really treat these characters as I 333 00:18:41,080 --> 00:18:43,200 Speaker 1: don't want to say as people because that's not quite right, 334 00:18:43,240 --> 00:18:47,680 Speaker 1: but just as entities that are very deserving of respect. Uh, 335 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:52,960 Speaker 1: And the role of Kermit went to Atlanta native Steve Whitmeier, 336 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,159 Speaker 1: who got into puppetry as Little voy Age ten writing 337 00:18:56,160 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 1: to Jim Henson who wrote him back, which I love, 338 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:02,560 Speaker 1: and the two shared a birthday, which is also very cute, 339 00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:04,960 Speaker 1: and he asked Jim Henson if he had any books 340 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:11,480 Speaker 1: on puppetry, and they got into a minor penpal correspondence, 341 00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,800 Speaker 1: and after graduating high school, Steve Whitpmeyer eventually got a 342 00:19:14,880 --> 00:19:17,439 Speaker 1: job working on the Muppet Show in nine and he 343 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,000 Speaker 1: went on to perform in basically every major Jim Henson 344 00:19:21,040 --> 00:19:25,440 Speaker 1: Company project, including non Muppet projects like The Dark Crystal, Labyrinth, 345 00:19:25,600 --> 00:19:28,920 Speaker 1: and the TV show Dinosaurs. And I actually interviewed him 346 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,080 Speaker 1: for the Labyrinth episode of My David Bowie podcast about 347 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:36,760 Speaker 1: a year and a half ago, and yeah, he told 348 00:19:36,800 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: me all about the kind of crazy way that he 349 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:43,800 Speaker 1: came to find himself being Kermit for I think about 350 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,480 Speaker 1: twenty years, nineteen years, something like that, a long time. 351 00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:49,280 Speaker 1: And he said that he was at a memorial for 352 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:52,080 Speaker 1: Jim Henson, and I literally at this memorial people were 353 00:19:52,119 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: coming up to him asking him if he wanted to 354 00:19:53,920 --> 00:19:56,000 Speaker 1: be the voice of Kermit. I don't even think they 355 00:19:56,000 --> 00:19:57,720 Speaker 1: ever phrase it as be the voice of Kerman. I 356 00:19:57,720 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: think it was b Kermit. I don't think they would 357 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,520 Speaker 1: ever is so, you know, plus a as just sell 358 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:05,080 Speaker 1: you know, do Kermit's voice. Uh. And he said I 359 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,040 Speaker 1: was shocked and almost kind of offended by people saying that, 360 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 1: because it had never crossed my mind in the least. 361 00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:13,080 Speaker 1: And then he said that the subject was raised again 362 00:20:13,119 --> 00:20:15,159 Speaker 1: a short time later when they were all in Disney 363 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: World doing a tribute special to Jim Henson and all 364 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,240 Speaker 1: the you know, inner circle of the Henson crew went 365 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 1: down for that, and he said, while I was there 366 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:26,280 Speaker 1: one night, I went over and we met with Jane Henson, 367 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:29,920 Speaker 1: who's Jim Henson's widow, Brian and Frank, Jim Henson's kids, 368 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: and Brian Henson mentioned me doing the voice of Kermit. 369 00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: I was just overwhelmed by the request. It was a 370 00:20:35,920 --> 00:20:38,800 Speaker 1: huge honor, and it also just scared the daylights out 371 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:41,560 Speaker 1: of me the thought of trying it. And Heather Henson, 372 00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:44,119 Speaker 1: Jim's daughter, arranged for Kermit to be sent to me 373 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:46,560 Speaker 1: in Atlanta, so like a fiddle around with it for 374 00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:48,480 Speaker 1: a bit. I remember him telling this to me. He said, 375 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,960 Speaker 1: I remember taking the puppet out of the box and 376 00:20:51,000 --> 00:20:54,439 Speaker 1: the puppets smelled like Jim. I put Kerman on before 377 00:20:54,480 --> 00:20:56,440 Speaker 1: while fooling around in the shop, but I had never 378 00:20:56,520 --> 00:20:58,639 Speaker 1: performed him. So I put him on and I was 379 00:20:58,680 --> 00:21:00,720 Speaker 1: standing in front of a mirror and held him up 380 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:02,800 Speaker 1: and I sort of had him turned to me, and 381 00:21:02,840 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 1: I got this sense of this voice in my head 382 00:21:05,119 --> 00:21:07,679 Speaker 1: of Kermit saying, come on, I need to talk, do 383 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: a voice. But I could not do it. I just 384 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,840 Speaker 1: took the puppet off, set it on a shelf in 385 00:21:12,840 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 1: another room, and I didn't touch it for almost a month. 386 00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: He was afraid of it. Basically, Heavy lies the Crown, 387 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:21,359 Speaker 1: and he ultimately performed Kermit for the first time for 388 00:21:21,400 --> 00:21:24,879 Speaker 1: a televised special celebrating Jim Henson. But he told Muppet 389 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: Central dot Com that Christmas Carol is what he considers 390 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,560 Speaker 1: to be the first real performance of Kermit. He says, quote, 391 00:21:30,560 --> 00:21:32,679 Speaker 1: I went to London for the start of Christmas Carol 392 00:21:32,920 --> 00:21:34,840 Speaker 1: and they had already started working on the music a 393 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:37,479 Speaker 1: couple of days before I got there. We prerecorded all 394 00:21:37,520 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: the songs before we did the movie. So the first 395 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 1: thing I was gonna have to do was go in 396 00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,960 Speaker 1: and record Kermit's voice, which I was super nervous about 397 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:46,879 Speaker 1: because I didn't have the puppet to rely on. There 398 00:21:46,960 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: was something about seeing the puppet as one was hearing 399 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:52,160 Speaker 1: my voice at that stage that made it more believable, 400 00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 1: and I got other people into it too. But if 401 00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:56,879 Speaker 1: I just walked in and did Kermit's voice, they didn't 402 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 1: buy it necessarily, they were still hearing Jim. If I 403 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 1: had the puppet on, it was more believable and true 404 00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: to the spirit of Christmas. Carol Whitmire's nerves on the 405 00:22:06,800 --> 00:22:09,919 Speaker 1: whole subject were eased in a journey to another plane 406 00:22:09,920 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 1: of existence. Wow, yeah, wow, I think to think of that, 407 00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,439 Speaker 1: he said. Uh the same interview, he said, I got 408 00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,800 Speaker 1: to London early in the morning after an overnight flight, 409 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:19,679 Speaker 1: and they gave me a day to relax before I 410 00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,359 Speaker 1: had to go in the next day and record, so 411 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:23,320 Speaker 1: I was just trying to catch up on sleep. I 412 00:22:23,359 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 1: went to the hotel and checked in, got up to 413 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:27,359 Speaker 1: the room and closed all the blinds to get it 414 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 1: as dark as I could to try and go to sleep. 415 00:22:30,080 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: I was just so nervous knowing I had to go 416 00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,119 Speaker 1: and record the next day. I laid down and I 417 00:22:34,160 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 1: was drifting off to sleep. I was thinking that this 418 00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,119 Speaker 1: was the kind of thing that if this were a 419 00:22:38,119 --> 00:22:39,960 Speaker 1: new character that Jim assigned me to do, and I 420 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: was feeling this nervous about it, I would go to 421 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,760 Speaker 1: him and say, Jim, I'm really nervous about this. I 422 00:22:44,800 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 1: need some kind of direction on it, some help. So 423 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,520 Speaker 1: I was thinking those kinds of thoughts, and I drifted 424 00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:52,399 Speaker 1: off to sleep. I had this dream that I was 425 00:22:52,440 --> 00:22:55,080 Speaker 1: in the lobby of a hotel and outside the windows 426 00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 1: everything was white. There was nothing outside these glass windows, 427 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,639 Speaker 1: and it was kind of a dark, dimly lit hotel lobby. 428 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,639 Speaker 1: I walked into this lobby and look over and there 429 00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:05,959 Speaker 1: were lots of people around, you know, hustle and bustle, 430 00:23:06,480 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: and Jim's at the desk. I go over to the 431 00:23:09,119 --> 00:23:11,040 Speaker 1: desk and I say, oh God, it is great to 432 00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 1: see you. And he said yeah, thanks, and he was 433 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,480 Speaker 1: kind of distracted. I said, listen, I have to tell 434 00:23:16,520 --> 00:23:19,320 Speaker 1: you I'm really nervous about doing Kermit tomorrow. I've got 435 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,199 Speaker 1: to do his voice for the first time, really, and 436 00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,320 Speaker 1: I'm real nervous. He stopped, and there was a thoughtful 437 00:23:24,400 --> 00:23:26,240 Speaker 1: gesture Jim would do where he would take both of 438 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,720 Speaker 1: his index fingers and put them under his chin. And 439 00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 1: he did that and thought, and he said it will pass, 440 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:35,320 Speaker 1: which is exactly what Jim would have said. Then he 441 00:23:35,359 --> 00:23:37,800 Speaker 1: turned and he said, I've really got a run, and 442 00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:40,199 Speaker 1: he took off out the door. I woke up and 443 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,840 Speaker 1: I felt great. I remembered this dream and I went 444 00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:44,679 Speaker 1: in the next day, I did the work and it 445 00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:49,439 Speaker 1: was smooth. It worked fine, and I felt great. Jim 446 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:54,800 Speaker 1: Jim Hempson's Jim Henson's charity of Spirit transcended death sounds 447 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:57,080 Speaker 1: about right. I mean, you could say that transcended death 448 00:23:57,080 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 1: for the last thirty years. I know, Oh, I know. 449 00:24:01,680 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: Steve Whitmeyer, in addition to taking over the mantle of Kerman, 450 00:24:05,359 --> 00:24:08,399 Speaker 1: also voiced Rizzo, the rat who I think he created. 451 00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:12,160 Speaker 1: And Rizzo in The Muppets Christmas Carol becomes the Gonzo 452 00:24:12,320 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: as dickens Foil throughout the film, which is something that 453 00:24:15,880 --> 00:24:18,480 Speaker 1: was screenwriter Jerry Jewel's idea, and he's talking to the 454 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,240 Speaker 1: muppet Zene. The Gonzo and Rizzo team was one of 455 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:23,399 Speaker 1: the best things to come out of The Muppets Christmas Carol. 456 00:24:23,640 --> 00:24:25,600 Speaker 1: As soon as I put them together, they started acting 457 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,919 Speaker 1: like they were brothers like they've never been apart. I 458 00:24:27,960 --> 00:24:30,080 Speaker 1: can't imagine why it took us so long to see this. 459 00:24:30,480 --> 00:24:32,679 Speaker 1: You've seen a lot of them recently, probably because all 460 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:34,520 Speaker 1: the writers have been so excited to have a new 461 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: comedy team to work with. And for example, when Gonzo 462 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:40,840 Speaker 1: tells Rizzo that he's such an idiot for climbing over 463 00:24:40,880 --> 00:24:43,480 Speaker 1: a gate instead of walking through it, that was apparently 464 00:24:43,520 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: a verbatim reference to a ribbing that Gonzo puppeteer Dave 465 00:24:47,320 --> 00:24:50,879 Speaker 1: Goltz delivered to Rizzo's voice and operator Steve Whittmeier. So 466 00:24:50,920 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: I mean it's basically the two puppeteers ratzing on each 467 00:24:53,560 --> 00:24:55,960 Speaker 1: other in real life. They just wrote that into the script, 468 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: apparently constantly, like it was a repeating thing. He would 469 00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,560 Speaker 1: just keep you like you're such an idiot. I love 470 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:05,520 Speaker 1: that scene. That seed has made me laugh uproariously as 471 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:09,040 Speaker 1: a child when he goes, God save my little broken body. 472 00:25:12,359 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: Uh perfect Uh. Speaking of suffering, Brian Henson said in 473 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:19,720 Speaker 1: the commentary track to the film, right through this movie, 474 00:25:20,119 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: Jerry Jewel had such wonderful ideas for different ways to 475 00:25:22,920 --> 00:25:26,399 Speaker 1: make Rizzo suffer, and we all threw in more ideas 476 00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: so right through the movie, Rizzo's suffering all the time 477 00:25:29,600 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 1: and it just made us laugh. But speaking of suffering, 478 00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 1: Whitmier's new role meant that he had to abandon one 479 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:40,679 Speaker 1: of his previous muppets, Bean Bunny, who quickly found his 480 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: new lot in life, which was also to suffer. Uh. 481 00:25:44,920 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 1: This is a funny bit of Muppets apocrypha. This character 482 00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:52,680 Speaker 1: had originally created in a one off short inspired by 483 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,879 Speaker 1: Henson's daughter seeing some rabbits I guess Heather on a 484 00:25:56,960 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: walk and she was like, Dad, puts some we gotta 485 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,280 Speaker 1: do something. He's like, I'll do some of the rabbits. 486 00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,600 Speaker 1: So that's where bean Bunny comes from. And then when 487 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: they had the Jim Henson Hour, they poured the character over. 488 00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 1: That was that like a post Muppet show show, I 489 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,879 Speaker 1: imagine short lived. Yes, um, they only aired nine episodes 490 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,760 Speaker 1: and canceled it. But yes, the Muppets always hated cuteness, 491 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,560 Speaker 1: Frank Oz told seven two thousand twelve. As a matter 492 00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,639 Speaker 1: of fact, Jim built a character called bean Bunny so 493 00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:33,720 Speaker 1: the audience could think he's cute and take the onus 494 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,800 Speaker 1: off the others. And in fact, when Kermit introduces him 495 00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:39,440 Speaker 1: on the Jim Henson hour, he says, we hired being 496 00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 1: to be cute so the rest of us don't have 497 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 1: to bother. I love crouchy and like cynical and over 498 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 1: it all these you know, obstensively children's characters are. Yeah. Unfortunately, 499 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: that show struggled with its ratings, and one of the 500 00:26:57,240 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: last episodes that aired confronted this problem head on, and uh, 501 00:27:01,840 --> 00:27:04,480 Speaker 1: they made the discovery that ratings were at their highest 502 00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: whenever the show featured sex, violence, or bean Bunny or 503 00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,960 Speaker 1: a combination of the three, And so that cute see 504 00:27:12,040 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: character began getting shoehorned into as many sketches going forward 505 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,720 Speaker 1: as possible, and uh obviously didn't take. The show was canceled, 506 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 1: and once Whitmier took over Kermit, Bean Bunny fulfilled the 507 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:30,160 Speaker 1: role of whipping boy in all Muppets productions, essentially, Brian 508 00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,560 Speaker 1: said Henson said in the Christmas Carol DVD commentary track, 509 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:35,879 Speaker 1: The idea was that he was so cute and sweet 510 00:27:35,920 --> 00:27:38,720 Speaker 1: and sappy that we would never do that in the Muppets. 511 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,040 Speaker 1: And he was so obnoxiously sweet that everybody didn't like 512 00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,240 Speaker 1: him inside the Muppet Company. We love to hate being 513 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,000 Speaker 1: Bunny and That is why in the film he is 514 00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:52,520 Speaker 1: constantly living in Dickenzie and Squalor were being physically abused. 515 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,760 Speaker 1: I see the Muppets Christmas Carol was how I first 516 00:27:56,000 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 1: met being Bunny, and I had no idea as much 517 00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:01,600 Speaker 1: sadder when you know the back story at all, And 518 00:28:01,640 --> 00:28:05,159 Speaker 1: I just remember that, like Scrooge tosses him off his doorstep, 519 00:28:05,280 --> 00:28:08,360 Speaker 1: and then after I think it's one more sleep till Christmas. 520 00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:12,679 Speaker 1: The camera pans off of Kermits and shivering under like 521 00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:15,920 Speaker 1: a newspaper or something in like a snow band. It's 522 00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,160 Speaker 1: the one of the saddest things I can conjure up. 523 00:28:19,240 --> 00:28:21,320 Speaker 1: It's but does it make you feel better knowing that 524 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:27,280 Speaker 1: they hated him? No, it doesn't. It somehow makes it worse. Uh. 525 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:30,439 Speaker 1: Muppet movie magic. Just a quick rundown of some of 526 00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: the Yes, that's that was my segue from that. Uh, 527 00:28:34,760 --> 00:28:36,720 Speaker 1: here's a quick rundown of some of the special effects, 528 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 1: behind the scenes stuff that went into the movie. Pulled 529 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 1: it from a variety of sources, including the DVD commentary 530 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,320 Speaker 1: Brian Henson does, which he does alongside Rizzo and Gonzo 531 00:28:45,960 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 1: and Kermit and ms Piggy. It's medium funny. UM. The 532 00:28:50,400 --> 00:28:54,640 Speaker 1: London rooftops and the opening credits are all models. Obviously, 533 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: they but they've stood three ft tall. They were built 534 00:28:57,160 --> 00:29:00,880 Speaker 1: at Shepperton in London, and Henson explained to up Rocks 535 00:29:01,040 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: the first shot is actually pretty extraordinary and took an 536 00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:06,840 Speaker 1: enormous amount of work. The models were only about three 537 00:29:06,840 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: foot tall, and the camera is moving back through the buildings, 538 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,479 Speaker 1: and it's actually moving at a very very slow speed, 539 00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: which is why you can see in the sky if 540 00:29:15,200 --> 00:29:18,400 Speaker 1: you look closely, a little jumps because it's smoke creating 541 00:29:18,440 --> 00:29:20,960 Speaker 1: these clouds, and the smoke level never really stays the same. 542 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:23,880 Speaker 1: So the camera was rolling very slowly, maybe one or 543 00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:26,400 Speaker 1: two frames a second, so it gave time for the 544 00:29:26,440 --> 00:29:28,680 Speaker 1: crew to push the buildings in front of the camera. 545 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,840 Speaker 1: So there were thirty people pushing around these three foot 546 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 1: building models to get them into place just before the 547 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,240 Speaker 1: camera reached them to get them into the shot. That 548 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,160 Speaker 1: same models also in the It Feels Like Christmas song 549 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:42,680 Speaker 1: with the Ghost of Christmas Present singing. That ends with 550 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: a rising crane shot out of the set and you 551 00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,000 Speaker 1: can see the little short buildings in the background. Kind 552 00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:50,760 Speaker 1: of throws off the sense of scale of it, and 553 00:29:50,840 --> 00:29:53,880 Speaker 1: Henson was like, yeah, I knew that was gonna be 554 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,040 Speaker 1: a problem, but we wanted to get that crane shot 555 00:29:56,080 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 1: in there, and I didn't think people would notice movie 556 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,360 Speaker 1: magic and muppet magic. We touched on this earlier, but 557 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:08,040 Speaker 1: shooting muppets alongside humans is always a challenge because, as 558 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,479 Speaker 1: you said, muppets are operated from below, so floors had 559 00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:15,160 Speaker 1: to be removed and replaced as muppets positioning dictated, and 560 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: Michael Caine had to walk across narrow planks between the 561 00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:20,880 Speaker 1: muppets and their operators. So what do you think is 562 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: like a full street scene or like a full floor 563 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:27,040 Speaker 1: scene is actually probably like a foot of plywood or 564 00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:29,240 Speaker 1: a foot of the whatever they're using as a floor 565 00:30:29,320 --> 00:30:34,760 Speaker 1: that he has to like shimmy across. Yeah, it really is, 566 00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:37,479 Speaker 1: I mean, and that's I mean, it's incredible for the actors, 567 00:30:37,480 --> 00:30:41,080 Speaker 1: but for the puppeteers, it's even more amazing just to see, 568 00:30:41,080 --> 00:30:43,880 Speaker 1: like how they operate. The mean, most muppets you'll notice 569 00:30:43,880 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 1: are left handed, because most puppeteers are right handed, and 570 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 1: they have their right hand as the mouth in most cases. 571 00:30:51,360 --> 00:30:53,840 Speaker 1: I think stuff like Big Bird and whatever is a 572 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:56,800 Speaker 1: bit different, but they'll operate the mouth and then they 573 00:30:56,960 --> 00:30:59,720 Speaker 1: use their left hand to operate the left arm with 574 00:30:59,800 --> 00:31:02,280 Speaker 1: a owl, so you'll notice their right arm is just 575 00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,120 Speaker 1: kind of like hanging loose unless they have a second 576 00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:07,560 Speaker 1: puppeteer to help operate it, which is usually rare for 577 00:31:07,600 --> 00:31:10,880 Speaker 1: the smaller muppets like Kermit Dude. The dark crystal ones 578 00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:14,440 Speaker 1: that they put them in are like medieval torture devices. 579 00:31:14,520 --> 00:31:17,480 Speaker 1: They have to like, oh my god, just go look 580 00:31:17,520 --> 00:31:19,400 Speaker 1: google some of the behind the scenes of that. How 581 00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:25,520 Speaker 1: they had to like trudge through these yeah yeah nuts. 582 00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:30,680 Speaker 1: And being that their puppets ordinary actions like blowing out 583 00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: of candle are hard because there's no breath coming from 584 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:36,600 Speaker 1: their mouth. So for the scene where Kermit blows out 585 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:39,440 Speaker 1: of candle, they had the time the firing of an 586 00:31:39,440 --> 00:31:43,280 Speaker 1: air gun at the flame to the moment that Kermit 587 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,280 Speaker 1: pucker's lips to make the blowing motion. I love that. 588 00:31:46,800 --> 00:31:49,520 Speaker 1: And similarly, Hanson said that the most difficult shot in 589 00:31:49,560 --> 00:31:52,120 Speaker 1: the entire film was the close up of Kermit locking 590 00:31:52,160 --> 00:31:55,560 Speaker 1: the door at Scroogees office. Why is that you get 591 00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:57,680 Speaker 1: those How do you get those little felt hands to 592 00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,120 Speaker 1: have enough torque and grip to hold it he lock 593 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:06,280 Speaker 1: of working door and fire a gun? Um c g 594 00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:08,520 Speaker 1: I was in its infancy when this film was made, 595 00:32:08,520 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 1: so the shot of the penguins ice skating had to 596 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: be achieved by they just matted the ice optically. Matt 597 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:17,120 Speaker 1: at it more of an old school technique. Uh. There's 598 00:32:17,160 --> 00:32:19,960 Speaker 1: another big show off the set piece where Kermitt is 599 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,080 Speaker 1: walking down the street and he's singing. He has robbing 600 00:32:22,120 --> 00:32:28,360 Speaker 1: on his shoulder, ten season to and joy us. Yeah 601 00:32:28,360 --> 00:32:30,960 Speaker 1: he's got the little Yeah. You kind of kicked into 602 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:32,880 Speaker 1: a pretty decent kermit there. If he gave me like 603 00:32:32,920 --> 00:32:36,120 Speaker 1: twenty minutes, I could get a good Kermit gone. Okay, okay, 604 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,360 Speaker 1: I'm looking up some of the lines in the background here. Uh, 605 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,400 Speaker 1: some of the better lines from the movie. Anyways, I 606 00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:46,960 Speaker 1: am Karmitt. I mean, let's let's be real here. That's true. Um, 607 00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:52,040 Speaker 1: what was there? It's all right, children, meetings and partings. 608 00:32:52,520 --> 00:32:54,760 Speaker 1: That was the way of it. I'm sure that we 609 00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 1: shall never forget tiny tim or this first parting that 610 00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:03,560 Speaker 1: was there among us. I love all of all these 611 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,280 Speaker 1: lines are so good. Tomorrow you will become a man 612 00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:11,560 Speaker 1: of business, Sammy Eagle is good. You will love business. 613 00:33:11,680 --> 00:33:17,880 Speaker 1: It is the American way. Sam. Story takes place in England, Oh, 614 00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 1: it's just the British way. So good, it's very good. 615 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: Uh where was I? Oh? Yeah, So that shot of 616 00:33:30,120 --> 00:33:32,440 Speaker 1: Kermit carrying his nephew down the street on his shoulder. 617 00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:36,719 Speaker 1: Ten puppeteers. Um. They shot that against the blue screen 618 00:33:36,760 --> 00:33:38,120 Speaker 1: because there was no way that they were going to 619 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:39,600 Speaker 1: be able to do it live. But what it is 620 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:42,760 Speaker 1: is Kermit is walking on a rotating drum that is 621 00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 1: patterned with the street. So they have ten puppeteers making 622 00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:49,720 Speaker 1: him move and sing and everything on a drum that's 623 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,240 Speaker 1: rotating under him, and then they can posit that in. 624 00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: Henson said that this was the film's money shot, to 625 00:33:55,440 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: which I say, I don't think you're using that word correctly. 626 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:04,280 Speaker 1: I don't think that word into what you think it means. Uh. 627 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:07,560 Speaker 1: I'm just I want to do different quotes that I keep. 628 00:34:07,960 --> 00:34:13,080 Speaker 1: Mother always taught me never eat singing food. Originally, the 629 00:34:13,080 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: Ghost of Christmas Present was supposed to be huge throughout 630 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:20,759 Speaker 1: his every scene that he was in. That realized man 631 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,960 Speaker 1: Henson realized that would be a logistical nightmare, so they 632 00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,880 Speaker 1: achieved the shrinking effect by shooting him against a blue 633 00:34:27,880 --> 00:34:31,719 Speaker 1: screen and then tracking backwards with the camera. It's a 634 00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,440 Speaker 1: neat all these little old school you can you can 635 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 1: find like really the history of filmmaking special effects in 636 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:40,200 Speaker 1: all the Muppet movies because the way that they got 637 00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,600 Speaker 1: around this they were, uh you know, just something as 638 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 1: simple as a reverse pool and then they would mat 639 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,440 Speaker 1: it in. Uh, this is gross. The Ghost of the 640 00:34:50,440 --> 00:34:52,640 Speaker 1: Ghost of what what ghost is she? The baby ghost 641 00:34:52,800 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: that's been Baby Ghost Past? Yeah, Ghost of Christmas Past 642 00:34:58,120 --> 00:35:01,040 Speaker 1: was a rod puppet that was submer into a tank 643 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: filled with baby oil because um, you know she has 644 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,920 Speaker 1: the floating robes and so to get that look all 645 00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 1: ethereal right, Yeah, I'm just trying to remember exactly what 646 00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 1: she looks like. It looks like an American girl doll 647 00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:18,560 Speaker 1: in like I hate that, Yeah, I mean those Titanic 648 00:35:18,640 --> 00:35:25,160 Speaker 1: victim But apparently, uh, the cigar chomping executive, uh saw 649 00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:30,000 Speaker 1: some of the line budget for this, and why did 650 00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:32,239 Speaker 1: they ate so much baby oil for this? Is in 651 00:35:32,320 --> 00:35:38,200 Speaker 1: a Wallace Beery wrestling pick. So they moved those scenes 652 00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: over to a water tank, which achieved the same flowing 653 00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,399 Speaker 1: effect on the robes, but then started wreaking havoc with 654 00:35:44,480 --> 00:35:47,720 Speaker 1: the rod system and the paint on the on the muppet, 655 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:51,719 Speaker 1: so they had to finish that under duress. I mean 656 00:35:51,719 --> 00:35:54,000 Speaker 1: I always come away with any time I look at 657 00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,400 Speaker 1: the background of any kind of Muppet production with just 658 00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:00,160 Speaker 1: so much respect for how much of a gigantic and 659 00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:03,160 Speaker 1: in the acid is to do all this, you know, 660 00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,320 Speaker 1: the simplest things like blowing out a candle or locking 661 00:36:06,320 --> 00:36:11,040 Speaker 1: a door or walking down a street. But they went 662 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:14,520 Speaker 1: old school for the stat Lord Waldorf number Marley and Marley. 663 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: Of course there's only one Marley in the Christmas Carol. 664 00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:19,200 Speaker 1: But it's too good not to, you know, you can't 665 00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:22,160 Speaker 1: break up the team. You gotta have Statler and Waldorf. Uh. 666 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,040 Speaker 1: These muppets were powdered down to make them very white, 667 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,279 Speaker 1: and then they were shot against black velvet with the 668 00:36:27,280 --> 00:36:30,400 Speaker 1: puppet teos wearing black, which is the classic Muppets technique, 669 00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: and then superimposed on the film image. And yeah, this 670 00:36:34,200 --> 00:36:36,839 Speaker 1: was the most common Muppet compositing technique that was used 671 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:39,080 Speaker 1: way back in the Muppet Show days in the seventies, 672 00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:41,440 Speaker 1: rather than you know, green screen shots or c g 673 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: I stuff that they would use today. We're always heckling you. 674 00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,440 Speaker 1: It's good to be heckling again. It's good to be 675 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:52,560 Speaker 1: doing anything again. And then they turned into then they 676 00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:59,960 Speaker 1: their their laughter turns into moans. We're Molly and Molly. 677 00:37:00,280 --> 00:37:04,640 Speaker 1: The Cratchett Daughters were created specifically for puppeteers Steve Whitmire 678 00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:06,440 Speaker 1: and Dave Golds to make fun of the way that 679 00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:13,000 Speaker 1: Frank Oz performed ms on each other. The production Brian 680 00:37:13,080 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: Henson added, so we had no idea what would happen 681 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,799 Speaker 1: when Piggy and Kermit decided to have kids. So in 682 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:19,879 Speaker 1: this movie we decided to throw logic to the wind 683 00:37:19,920 --> 00:37:23,200 Speaker 1: and say, okay, so miss Piggy and Kermit have had kids. 684 00:37:23,600 --> 00:37:25,760 Speaker 1: So all the girls are pigs and all the boys 685 00:37:25,760 --> 00:37:28,080 Speaker 1: are frogs. There's no rhyme or reason to it, and 686 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,359 Speaker 1: we get a punnet square and trying to figure that out. 687 00:37:31,239 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: I want to see they rejected draft for that where 688 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,399 Speaker 1: it's some kind of cronin Burgee and like like John 689 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 1: Carpenter's the thing, Like they got Rob Boutine to come 690 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,680 Speaker 1: in and do really elaborate, like latex prosthetics work of 691 00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:47,640 Speaker 1: like a horrible half pig half frog thing, and they 692 00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:53,160 Speaker 1: were like, yeah, no, only marginally more traumatizing than some 693 00:37:53,200 --> 00:37:56,879 Speaker 1: of the other things in this movie. I just want 694 00:37:56,880 --> 00:38:00,319 Speaker 1: to add that the role of Clara who's scrooges few. 695 00:38:00,480 --> 00:38:04,400 Speaker 1: Fred's wife is played by Robin Weaver, who is famous 696 00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,200 Speaker 1: to any brick con fans out there as Simon's mom 697 00:38:07,400 --> 00:38:11,640 Speaker 1: on The in between Ers, one of my favorite British comedies. Huh, 698 00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 1: you really gotta watch that. I really think you'd love that. 699 00:38:15,960 --> 00:38:18,320 Speaker 1: And in the scene at the end of the movie, 700 00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:20,960 Speaker 1: you can see a shop called Michael Whites, which of 701 00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,240 Speaker 1: course is a tribute to Michael Caine's birth name Mars 702 00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:29,120 Speaker 1: Joseph Michael White Jr. Which is arguably as strong as 703 00:38:29,440 --> 00:38:32,239 Speaker 1: his screen name Michael Caine. I'd say uh. In this 704 00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:34,760 Speaker 1: movie's first scene, there's also a shop sign that reads 705 00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,120 Speaker 1: Duncan and Kenworthy. Producer Duncan ken Worthy was one of 706 00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:42,000 Speaker 1: the creators of Jim Henson's Fraggle Rocks No Jim Henson's 707 00:38:42,040 --> 00:38:45,960 Speaker 1: Fraggle Songs. And there's yet another street sign that reads 708 00:38:45,960 --> 00:38:49,080 Speaker 1: Statler and Waldorf's, but that's obscured in a key shot. 709 00:38:49,200 --> 00:38:50,879 Speaker 1: But you know, we all know what that comes from. 710 00:38:50,920 --> 00:38:53,400 Speaker 1: I forgot out the scene where he uses Rizzo to 711 00:38:53,560 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: wipe the window and just because thank you for making 712 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:03,640 Speaker 1: me a part of this. Oh and the song one 713 00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,680 Speaker 1: More Sleep Till Christmas ends with Kermit staring at the 714 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,560 Speaker 1: sky as a shooting star streaks by, and in the 715 00:39:09,640 --> 00:39:12,440 Speaker 1: DVD audio commentary, Brian Hansen said that this was a 716 00:39:12,480 --> 00:39:15,560 Speaker 1: nod to the Muppet Movie where our shooting star flies 717 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,000 Speaker 1: over Kermit, and in the years since, it's become kind 718 00:39:19,000 --> 00:39:23,360 Speaker 1: of a recurring tribute to Uh. Jim Henson, Kermit watching 719 00:39:23,360 --> 00:39:27,440 Speaker 1: a shooting star pass overhead. Just you give you a 720 00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: lot of feelings. Yeah, as you meditate on that, We'll 721 00:39:33,560 --> 00:39:36,840 Speaker 1: be right back with more too much information after these messages, 722 00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:48,720 Speaker 1: and now the eyes and ears of the world turns, 723 00:39:48,960 --> 00:39:51,440 Speaker 1: as it so often does when we're in control of it. 724 00:39:52,000 --> 00:39:57,080 Speaker 1: To Paul Williams, Yes, one of my favorite songwriters, people, 725 00:39:57,480 --> 00:40:04,000 Speaker 1: uh daft punk, guest loocalists, president, one of probably my 726 00:40:04,080 --> 00:40:08,080 Speaker 1: favorite president of as CAP. You know, if I'm really 727 00:40:08,160 --> 00:40:12,120 Speaker 1: prepared to make a bold statement. Paul Williams had written 728 00:40:12,120 --> 00:40:14,360 Speaker 1: classics like Rainy Days and Mondays and We've only just 729 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:17,200 Speaker 1: Begun for the Carpenters, an old fashioned love song for 730 00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,960 Speaker 1: three Dog Night, and Evergreen for Barbara Streisen from Stars 731 00:40:20,960 --> 00:40:23,560 Speaker 1: Born All By the time he guessed on The Muppet 732 00:40:23,600 --> 00:40:27,080 Speaker 1: Show in nineteen seventy six, on that shoot he fell 733 00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:29,239 Speaker 1: in love with the Muppets world and also hit it 734 00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,080 Speaker 1: off with Jim Henson, who asked Williams to write songs 735 00:40:32,160 --> 00:40:35,839 Speaker 1: for his Christmas themed TV movie Emmett Honters Jug Band 736 00:40:35,920 --> 00:40:39,320 Speaker 1: Christmas in ninety seven and The Muppet Movie in nineteen 737 00:40:39,360 --> 00:40:41,799 Speaker 1: seventy nine. Jordan's you know anything about Emmett Hotters Jug 738 00:40:41,840 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 1: Band Christmas? It sounds really familiar, But I no, no, nope, 739 00:40:46,120 --> 00:40:48,440 Speaker 1: I don't know about it. I originally thought there was 740 00:40:48,440 --> 00:40:50,279 Speaker 1: gonna be a much better story. I one of the 741 00:40:50,320 --> 00:40:51,880 Speaker 1: things that I first looked up for this was that 742 00:40:52,000 --> 00:40:56,600 Speaker 1: John Denver Muppets album. Nothing has been written about that, 743 00:40:56,760 --> 00:40:59,080 Speaker 1: not a word. It's got a bunch of Wrecking Crew 744 00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 1: guys on it. Like I'm pretty sure how Blaine plays 745 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:04,359 Speaker 1: drums on it. But like not a drop of ink 746 00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,240 Speaker 1: has been spilled over that record. I know very little. Yeah, Anyway, 747 00:41:09,280 --> 00:41:12,880 Speaker 1: the Muppet Movie has some of williams most indelible creations 748 00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,279 Speaker 1: for the Muppets and elsewhere. Moving right along, I hope 749 00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,560 Speaker 1: that something better comes along. I'm going to go back 750 00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:22,759 Speaker 1: there someday. And of course, Rainbow Connection, one of the 751 00:41:22,760 --> 00:41:25,520 Speaker 1: greatest songs of all time, which earned Williams and co 752 00:41:25,640 --> 00:41:29,680 Speaker 1: writer Kenny Asher an Oscar nom and uh Williams was 753 00:41:29,760 --> 00:41:33,719 Speaker 1: also nominated for an Oscar for the film's score. But 754 00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,200 Speaker 1: Williams lost the better part of the next decade to 755 00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:41,000 Speaker 1: a combination of vodka and cocaine, going Mrs Him talking 756 00:41:41,040 --> 00:41:44,800 Speaker 1: to Vulture in seen from Johnny Carson's couch to peeking 757 00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:47,480 Speaker 1: out the windows through the Venetian blinds looking for the 758 00:41:47,520 --> 00:41:51,280 Speaker 1: tree Police. It was a dark, dark period of my life. 759 00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:54,920 Speaker 1: And talking to the l a times, he said, I 760 00:41:55,040 --> 00:41:58,840 Speaker 1: hit absolute physical bottom in eighty nine. I wasn't crawling 761 00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:01,760 Speaker 1: the streets, and I wasn't war, but I was spiritually bankrupt, 762 00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:03,600 Speaker 1: and I got to the point where I was having 763 00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,920 Speaker 1: full blown psychotic episodes from the combination of drugs and 764 00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,560 Speaker 1: alcohol in my system. So I finally had to get 765 00:42:09,600 --> 00:42:12,040 Speaker 1: down on my knees and ask for help, and at 766 00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:14,879 Speaker 1: the age of forty nine, Paul Williams entered rehab and 767 00:42:15,400 --> 00:42:20,279 Speaker 1: emerged in March of basically has changed as Scrooge the 768 00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:22,400 Speaker 1: day that he wakes up on Christmas. In a sense, 769 00:42:22,440 --> 00:42:24,839 Speaker 1: he said, once I was detoxed, once I had been 770 00:42:24,920 --> 00:42:27,840 Speaker 1: chemically relieved of the substances, the cravings were gone. This 771 00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:30,200 Speaker 1: is him talking to Vulture. I thought that was an 772 00:42:30,239 --> 00:42:33,560 Speaker 1: absolute miracle because I could not, in fact imagine going 773 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:36,640 Speaker 1: a day without the drugs. The relief I felt was huge, 774 00:42:36,760 --> 00:42:38,839 Speaker 1: and that I no longer woke up desperate to find 775 00:42:38,920 --> 00:42:41,279 Speaker 1: what I needed. But the contentedness that I felt with 776 00:42:41,320 --> 00:42:44,160 Speaker 1: the world around me was remarkable. All of a sudden, 777 00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,880 Speaker 1: you have that feeling of being cared for, you have 778 00:42:47,000 --> 00:42:50,360 Speaker 1: that feeling of belonging. And he also told the l 779 00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,200 Speaker 1: a Times that he was dealing with a new problem now, unfortunately, 780 00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:55,960 Speaker 1: writer's block. I just couldn't write, couldn't do it for 781 00:42:55,960 --> 00:42:58,520 Speaker 1: a couple of years. I was terrified. So when the 782 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:01,799 Speaker 1: Muppet Christmas Carol came along, it became especially important for 783 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,480 Speaker 1: me because it's the first song score that I've done sober. 784 00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,279 Speaker 1: You find a lot of creative people who have been 785 00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,680 Speaker 1: to rehab, either going on stage or creating for the 786 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:12,800 Speaker 1: first time, since they think they can't do it. They 787 00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:16,160 Speaker 1: so used to relying on whatever that crutch was, whatever 788 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,720 Speaker 1: drugs or alcohol, whatever it is. That yeah, it's usually 789 00:43:18,760 --> 00:43:22,040 Speaker 1: a big hurdle, he continued. When I got sober, the 790 00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:24,880 Speaker 1: career I thought I had was pretty much gone. I 791 00:43:24,920 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: just fell in love with recovery. I felt like that's 792 00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:28,920 Speaker 1: all I wanted to do, and I didn't know if 793 00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 1: I was ever going to write music again. And then 794 00:43:31,239 --> 00:43:33,600 Speaker 1: I was asked to write songs for the Muppet Christmas Carol. 795 00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:36,000 Speaker 1: Every now and then, the universe will line up to 796 00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,360 Speaker 1: do something at the right time in your life. And 797 00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 1: later in the interview with Vulture, he says, simply, Muppet 798 00:43:41,120 --> 00:43:44,719 Speaker 1: Christmas Carol became a bridge back to songwriting. That's beautiful, 799 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:46,880 Speaker 1: and the themes of the film wound up is the 800 00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,440 Speaker 1: perfect way for Paul Williams to process his new life. 801 00:43:49,440 --> 00:43:51,759 Speaker 1: He said, I was longing to live life in a 802 00:43:51,760 --> 00:43:54,680 Speaker 1: totally new way, one day at a time, trusting that 803 00:43:54,719 --> 00:43:56,960 Speaker 1: what I needed was within me to get things done. 804 00:43:57,360 --> 00:43:59,359 Speaker 1: And I'm sitting down to write these songs, and I'm 805 00:43:59,360 --> 00:44:01,919 Speaker 1: writing about Scrooge, a man who's learning to live life 806 00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:04,759 Speaker 1: in a whole new way, who's having a spiritual awakening. 807 00:44:05,400 --> 00:44:08,880 Speaker 1: So some of Williams songs for the film, Scrooge's introduction 808 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,040 Speaker 1: song Marley and Marley One More Sleep Till Christmas it 809 00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:15,239 Speaker 1: Feels like Christmas, are among his best bar none. And 810 00:44:15,320 --> 00:44:19,320 Speaker 1: it was Michael Caine's first ever time singing in a film, 811 00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:22,759 Speaker 1: and so he turned in a song called Thankful Heart, 812 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,479 Speaker 1: which he said was a look inside his own heart 813 00:44:25,560 --> 00:44:28,240 Speaker 1: after getting sober. I just love how much this film 814 00:44:28,360 --> 00:44:31,760 Speaker 1: ended up meaning. To Paul Williams, sobriety journey. It's really 815 00:44:32,480 --> 00:44:35,800 Speaker 1: that's really incredible. But you can't always escape your past. 816 00:44:35,960 --> 00:44:38,520 Speaker 1: And when he started working with Kane, they were pre 817 00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,520 Speaker 1: recording their songs at London CTS Studios a few months 818 00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:46,279 Speaker 1: before production, which began in June. Williams was there. He 819 00:44:46,680 --> 00:44:49,440 Speaker 1: told Vulture. I walked up to Michael Caine and introduced myself. 820 00:44:49,600 --> 00:44:51,719 Speaker 1: I said, wonderful to meet you. I'm so excited to 821 00:44:51,760 --> 00:44:53,759 Speaker 1: be working with you. He said, are you out of 822 00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 1: your mind? We spent an entire weekend together in London. 823 00:44:56,680 --> 00:44:59,759 Speaker 1: We were at the White Elephant gambling. Paul Williams did 824 00:44:59,760 --> 00:45:05,640 Speaker 1: not remember um. The music for the film, though, has 825 00:45:05,920 --> 00:45:10,040 Speaker 1: famously had one glaring omission thanks to Enemy of the 826 00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:15,759 Speaker 1: Pod Jeffrey Katzenberg. Uh. There's a ballad called when Love 827 00:45:15,880 --> 00:45:22,400 Speaker 1: Is Gone that scrooges fiance sings to him, knowing essentially 828 00:45:22,440 --> 00:45:26,040 Speaker 1: that he doesn't love her anymore, and Michael Caine, in 829 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:29,600 Speaker 1: the vision, starts dueting with her Uh, it's actually quite 830 00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,520 Speaker 1: a hardfelt scene because he's like singing with her seeing 831 00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,600 Speaker 1: this scene in the past of her being like, I 832 00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:39,719 Speaker 1: I know you don't love me anymore. Uh. Jeffrey Katzenberg 833 00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:43,400 Speaker 1: thought that it slowed things down a little too much 834 00:45:43,960 --> 00:45:47,959 Speaker 1: in a movie aimed at children. Williams says, he says, 835 00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,000 Speaker 1: it's one of the most touching moments I think in 836 00:45:50,080 --> 00:45:53,320 Speaker 1: his career, he says to Michael Caine's acting in that scene, 837 00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:55,120 Speaker 1: and then he said, it's also one of my favorite 838 00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:57,400 Speaker 1: things that I've ever written in my life. The song. 839 00:45:57,920 --> 00:46:01,120 Speaker 1: So Meredith Braun, who land to the role of scrooges 840 00:46:01,239 --> 00:46:04,040 Speaker 1: soon to be ex fiance while performing in Lame Miss 841 00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:08,000 Speaker 1: on the West End, she sang her portion beautifully. Brian 842 00:46:08,000 --> 00:46:10,719 Speaker 1: Henson told e W there was never a reason to 843 00:46:10,760 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 1: even do a second take with her, and then he added, 844 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:16,520 Speaker 1: perhaps unnecessarily, Paul and I just sort of melted and 845 00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:18,640 Speaker 1: fell in love with her. We call that the Kate 846 00:46:18,640 --> 00:46:22,160 Speaker 1: Bush syndrome. Kane, who as we mentioned, had never sung 847 00:46:22,239 --> 00:46:24,440 Speaker 1: in a movie before, had a somewhat harder row to 848 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,720 Speaker 1: ho Henson said, Michael did need to do lots of takes, 849 00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:31,799 Speaker 1: and it's tough because Michael can put himself into such 850 00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:36,080 Speaker 1: an emotionally vulnerable state that he starts sobbing. He's genuinely 851 00:46:36,120 --> 00:46:38,720 Speaker 1: there emotionally, so it's tough to stay in the studio 852 00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:40,840 Speaker 1: and keep going for a line over and over. But 853 00:46:40,920 --> 00:46:43,200 Speaker 1: we had to just to try to tweet the melody. 854 00:46:43,239 --> 00:46:45,400 Speaker 1: But Meredith sat in the recording studio with him and 855 00:46:45,480 --> 00:46:49,880 Speaker 1: was extremely supportive. Meredith Braun said Kane just wanted to 856 00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:52,799 Speaker 1: play everything for real. He was joking that he had 857 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:55,440 Speaker 1: to feel it rather than sing it, and he was lovely. 858 00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,360 Speaker 1: He just wanted to do a good job. Williams agreed. 859 00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:02,239 Speaker 1: He said Michael doesn't perform the song, he experiences the song, 860 00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,359 Speaker 1: and great voices don't impress me nearly as much as 861 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:08,480 Speaker 1: that honesty in a performance. I'd rather have somebody whisper 862 00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:10,839 Speaker 1: a song and feel it than sing it like Pavarotti 863 00:47:10,960 --> 00:47:14,840 Speaker 1: and not connect with the feelings. Well, said Paul Williams. 864 00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:18,880 Speaker 1: But all that said, Brian Henson told w Katzenberg never 865 00:47:18,960 --> 00:47:21,200 Speaker 1: forced me to do anything. But he said, do you 866 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,919 Speaker 1: see how Auntie those kids are getting. He's like, it's 867 00:47:23,920 --> 00:47:28,399 Speaker 1: a little too adult emotional for little kids to stay connected. Ah, 868 00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:30,640 Speaker 1: He said the movie does play well without the song, 869 00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,879 Speaker 1: but I obviously preferred having the song in. I think 870 00:47:33,920 --> 00:47:36,600 Speaker 1: it's good for kids to be pulled into deeply emotional moments, 871 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:39,200 Speaker 1: even if they feel slightly awkward about it when they're 872 00:47:39,239 --> 00:47:44,280 Speaker 1: in a movie theater. Katzenberg part of his track record 873 00:47:44,440 --> 00:47:47,919 Speaker 1: also includes wanting to cut part of Your World one 874 00:47:47,960 --> 00:47:52,839 Speaker 1: of the greatest Ashman Mankan, I want songs of all 875 00:47:52,920 --> 00:47:57,640 Speaker 1: time from Little Mermaid, and also passing on an American 876 00:47:57,680 --> 00:48:00,840 Speaker 1: tale full stop. What did he say something about no 877 00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:02,560 Speaker 1: one wants to see Jewish mice or was that just 878 00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:05,600 Speaker 1: us riffing. No, that was him. That's a direct quote 879 00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:10,359 Speaker 1: from him. Yeah, for the exact same reason. He said 880 00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:13,560 Speaker 1: he observed children getting antsy at a test screening a 881 00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,560 Speaker 1: Little Mermaid and wanted part of your World cut Ashman 882 00:48:16,680 --> 00:48:20,400 Speaker 1: Mankin Finest Hour nearly cut because of enemy of the 883 00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:24,560 Speaker 1: Pod Jeffrey Catzenburg. Well, the agreement was Brian Henson told 884 00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,080 Speaker 1: the BBC in that we would remove it from the 885 00:48:27,080 --> 00:48:29,799 Speaker 1: theatrical release, but then put it back in for all 886 00:48:29,840 --> 00:48:32,400 Speaker 1: of the television and video releases from then on in 887 00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:34,560 Speaker 1: And I remember this being a part of the movie 888 00:48:34,560 --> 00:48:37,080 Speaker 1: because I had it on VHS also went out on 889 00:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,600 Speaker 1: laser disc, but when it came time for them to 890 00:48:40,680 --> 00:48:42,520 Speaker 1: clean it up and put it back out on DVD 891 00:48:42,600 --> 00:48:46,719 Speaker 1: and streaming, Disney had just lost the footage. And so 892 00:48:46,800 --> 00:48:49,919 Speaker 1: that scene has been absent for years on DVDs, blue 893 00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,080 Speaker 1: rays and and where, and I guess on Disney Plus 894 00:48:53,080 --> 00:48:56,120 Speaker 1: where it's streaming. But there is a happy code here 895 00:48:56,320 --> 00:48:59,680 Speaker 1: in the only good thing to happen. In Gary. Up 896 00:48:59,719 --> 00:49:02,040 Speaker 1: for a four K release of The Muppets Christmas, Carol 897 00:49:02,120 --> 00:49:05,600 Speaker 1: Disney found the missing section the Love is Found and 898 00:49:05,719 --> 00:49:08,960 Speaker 1: surprised Henson with it when he visited the studio, and 899 00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:13,600 Speaker 1: in September, during the d Twente Expo panels celebrating the film, 900 00:49:13,880 --> 00:49:16,040 Speaker 1: it was announced that When Love Is Gone will be 901 00:49:16,120 --> 00:49:19,560 Speaker 1: reinstated to the film and available on Disney Plus on December, 902 00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:26,080 Speaker 1: exactly thirty years after the film's initial release. I have 903 00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,600 Speaker 1: I have thought go on. They removed this slow song 904 00:49:30,680 --> 00:49:33,440 Speaker 1: from the theatrical release because kids were getting antsy, but 905 00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:36,919 Speaker 1: they left it in for home movie and TV. Kids 906 00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:39,640 Speaker 1: are in kids are in movie theaters, they're getting nancy. 907 00:49:39,680 --> 00:49:42,040 Speaker 1: They can't go anywhere, so it'll be you know, they'll 908 00:49:42,040 --> 00:49:44,480 Speaker 1: they will pass. But if it's on TV or at home. 909 00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:47,040 Speaker 1: They can change the channel, they can shut the thing off, 910 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:48,719 Speaker 1: they can go, So it almost seems like it should 911 00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:51,400 Speaker 1: have been other way around. It probably had to do 912 00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:55,399 Speaker 1: with money on Paul Williams thing, you know, like something 913 00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:57,000 Speaker 1: in his contract where you like you got to use 914 00:49:57,040 --> 00:50:02,480 Speaker 1: the songs that I that I wrote. Um Dizzy pushed 915 00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:05,360 Speaker 1: Muppet Christmas Carol they made. It was their widest released 916 00:50:05,360 --> 00:50:07,080 Speaker 1: film of the holiday season, which means it was in 917 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:10,080 Speaker 1: the most theaters uh and the second widest release under 918 00:50:10,120 --> 00:50:13,520 Speaker 1: the Disney band or that year, preempted only slightly by 919 00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:15,480 Speaker 1: the film you may have heard of once or twice 920 00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:19,560 Speaker 1: in your life, Aladdin. But it opened in sixth place, 921 00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,520 Speaker 1: perhaps on surprising given that it was going up against 922 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,400 Speaker 1: Home alone to Aladdin, a Few Good Men and the Bodyguard. 923 00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:29,160 Speaker 1: But still it went on to pool a very respectable 924 00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:35,120 Speaker 1: million globally on a twelve million dollar budget, so pretty 925 00:50:35,160 --> 00:50:38,520 Speaker 1: pretty good for Brian's first time out, uh, and its 926 00:50:38,560 --> 00:50:40,680 Speaker 1: success helped pave the way for the next Muppet movie 927 00:50:40,719 --> 00:50:44,520 Speaker 1: being another classic literature adaptation. But Treasure Island. I have 928 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,160 Speaker 1: no memory of this being in theaters. I always kind 929 00:50:47,160 --> 00:50:49,920 Speaker 1: of thought, even to this day that it was like 930 00:50:50,120 --> 00:50:53,480 Speaker 1: either a direct to VHS release or a TV special 931 00:50:53,560 --> 00:50:55,600 Speaker 1: or something. I had no idea that it was released 932 00:50:55,640 --> 00:50:58,799 Speaker 1: on that scale and made that much money. Well, they 933 00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,200 Speaker 1: initially had pitched it as a as a TV movie, 934 00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:06,399 Speaker 1: that's what you know. Yeah, but then at some point 935 00:51:06,440 --> 00:51:08,680 Speaker 1: as the script got together, Disney was like, no, we'll 936 00:51:08,680 --> 00:51:10,920 Speaker 1: make it a feature. I didn't see it in theaters. 937 00:51:10,960 --> 00:51:13,440 Speaker 1: I definitely saw it on UM. I saw him up 938 00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:19,920 Speaker 1: at Treasure Island in theaters, which was disappointing. James V. Hart, 939 00:51:19,960 --> 00:51:25,359 Speaker 1: who wrote hook if I recall that's one with Tim Curry, Yeah, yeah, yeah. 940 00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,080 Speaker 1: Critics were not exactly bowled over by Muppet Christmas, Carol 941 00:51:29,480 --> 00:51:32,839 Speaker 1: Janet Maslin and Roger Ebert being somewhat restrained in still 942 00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:36,200 Speaker 1: mostly positive reviews, but nobody really gushed over it. Gene 943 00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:39,239 Speaker 1: Siskel gave it a thumbs down while praising Michael Caine 944 00:51:39,280 --> 00:51:45,439 Speaker 1: in a role him. I'm from Rotten Tomatoes. The film 945 00:51:45,480 --> 00:51:49,360 Speaker 1: currently has a based on fifty one reviews, while on 946 00:51:49,480 --> 00:51:54,520 Speaker 1: Metacritic it's got a sixty four out of a hundred. Yeah, 947 00:51:54,560 --> 00:51:57,200 Speaker 1: there really is no accounting for tastes. What are the 948 00:51:57,280 --> 00:52:01,160 Speaker 1: possible complaints for this? She would Asland said, I thought 949 00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,799 Speaker 1: about pulling her. I didn't want to give, you know, 950 00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,200 Speaker 1: give them space. But let's see what Maslin and Ebert said. 951 00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,960 Speaker 1: Janet Maslin, reviewing it for The New York Times, summarize 952 00:52:11,000 --> 00:52:14,280 Speaker 1: the film as not a great show of wit or tunefulness, 953 00:52:15,239 --> 00:52:19,160 Speaker 1: and the ingenious cross generational touches are fairly rare, but 954 00:52:19,239 --> 00:52:21,600 Speaker 1: there is a lively kitty version of the Dickens tale, 955 00:52:21,640 --> 00:52:25,120 Speaker 1: one that very young viewers ought to understand. Roger Ebert 956 00:52:25,360 --> 00:52:27,480 Speaker 1: gave the film three out of four stars, praising its 957 00:52:27,520 --> 00:52:30,279 Speaker 1: technical achievements, but said it could have done with a 958 00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:33,160 Speaker 1: few more songs than it has, and the merrymaking at 959 00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,839 Speaker 1: the end might have carried on a little longer, just 960 00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 1: to offset the gloom of most of scrooges tour through 961 00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:45,000 Speaker 1: his lifetime spent spreading misery. Dave care at the Chicago 962 00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:48,920 Speaker 1: Tribune reviewed the film as a talkie plotting film that 963 00:52:49,000 --> 00:52:52,400 Speaker 1: seems likely to bore children and adults in equal measure. 964 00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,120 Speaker 1: Ah Variety wrote that Muppets Christmas Caroll is not as 965 00:52:57,200 --> 00:52:59,960 Speaker 1: enchanting or as amusing as the previous entries in the 966 00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:04,480 Speaker 1: Muppet series. Well sure, but nothing can really diminish the 967 00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:11,480 Speaker 1: late Jim Henson's irresistibly appealing characters. What a scatter shot Like, 968 00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:16,440 Speaker 1: I feel like everybody's praising and criticizing wildly different things. Well, 969 00:53:17,160 --> 00:53:22,120 Speaker 1: there is no accounting for taste. Uh. Here was Dave Galtz, 970 00:53:22,160 --> 00:53:25,439 Speaker 1: who was responsible for Gonza and Waldorf. He said, I've 971 00:53:25,480 --> 00:53:28,080 Speaker 1: never been able to watch Christmas Carol dry eye. This 972 00:53:28,120 --> 00:53:31,560 Speaker 1: is him talking to the Guardian. The comedy deepens the emotion. Yeah, 973 00:53:31,560 --> 00:53:35,000 Speaker 1: well said it ambushes you. It remains my favorite film 974 00:53:35,040 --> 00:53:37,480 Speaker 1: we've done by a good margin. And I wouldn't leave 975 00:53:37,520 --> 00:53:40,320 Speaker 1: the final words here to Brian Henson, which just feels 976 00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:44,360 Speaker 1: appropriate considering what he was going through. Uh. To Midwife, 977 00:53:44,400 --> 00:53:46,719 Speaker 1: this wonderful film that we all love so much into being, 978 00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:49,360 Speaker 1: This is to op Rocks. It was a really wonderful 979 00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:52,960 Speaker 1: atmosphere on set, very very supportive environment, and we all 980 00:53:53,080 --> 00:53:55,640 Speaker 1: knew it was working as soon as we started shooting. 981 00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:58,640 Speaker 1: We were like, Wow, this is really working. It's a 982 00:53:58,640 --> 00:54:02,520 Speaker 1: whole new direction and it fun but it's poignant. Maybe 983 00:54:02,560 --> 00:54:04,959 Speaker 1: it's a little more poignant than people were used to 984 00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:07,800 Speaker 1: from the Muppets being but at that time it felt 985 00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:10,200 Speaker 1: right in that it was the first big production after 986 00:54:10,320 --> 00:54:13,680 Speaker 1: Jim's death. It is a more touching and heartfelt story 987 00:54:13,760 --> 00:54:17,760 Speaker 1: than the Muppets had done up until then. I agree, 988 00:54:18,160 --> 00:54:20,440 Speaker 1: I think that. Yeah, I mean just knowing what went 989 00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:24,480 Speaker 1: into this movie and what everyone was reeling with, and 990 00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:26,960 Speaker 1: you can look at this movie just as people overcoming 991 00:54:27,520 --> 00:54:30,120 Speaker 1: a tragedy and pulling together to make a great piece 992 00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:32,960 Speaker 1: of art. And yeah, I have nothing but nice things 993 00:54:33,000 --> 00:54:35,760 Speaker 1: to say about this movie. Yes, the movie that introduced 994 00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:39,040 Speaker 1: me to the Muppets. Really you should have lived with that. 995 00:54:39,719 --> 00:54:45,880 Speaker 1: Oh well, close them with it? Uh yeah, well everyone 996 00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:49,320 Speaker 1: que up on December eleven, que up the restored version 997 00:54:49,719 --> 00:54:53,440 Speaker 1: of the Muppet Christmas Carol on Disney Plus or uh, 998 00:54:53,680 --> 00:54:56,880 Speaker 1: you know, don't do that, don't give them your money. Um, 999 00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:59,239 Speaker 1: I don't know. Just watch the movie. Fill the joy 1000 00:54:59,280 --> 00:55:02,880 Speaker 1: that you felt as a ch Thank you, folks for listening. 1001 00:55:03,040 --> 00:55:05,640 Speaker 1: This has been too much information. I'm Alex Hegel and 1002 00:55:05,680 --> 00:55:13,279 Speaker 1: I'm Jordan runt Talk. We'll catch you next time. Too 1003 00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,960 Speaker 1: Much Information was a production of I Heart Radio. The 1004 00:55:16,000 --> 00:55:19,120 Speaker 1: show's executive producers are Noel Brown and Jordan run Talk. 1005 00:55:19,320 --> 00:55:22,800 Speaker 1: The show's supervising producer is Michael Alder June. The show 1006 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:25,680 Speaker 1: was researched, written and hosted by Jordan run Talk, and 1007 00:55:25,719 --> 00:55:28,680 Speaker 1: Alex Hegel with original music by Seth Applebaum and the 1008 00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,319 Speaker 1: Ghost Funk Orchestra. If you like what you heard, please 1009 00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,880 Speaker 1: subscribe and leave us a review. For more podcasts on 1010 00:55:33,960 --> 00:55:37,160 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio, visit the i heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 1011 00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:39,160 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows,