Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Overland Journal podcast. I'm your
Speaker 1: host Scott Brady, and I am here with Cyrus Scooter Anderson,
Speaker 1: longtime friend. This is awesome to have you on the
Speaker 1: podcast with me today. I mean we have known each other.
Speaker 1: It's got to be close to twenty years now.
Speaker 2: Yep, our show. He just so fortunately found a motorcycle
Speaker 2: that was identical to mine.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that's right. We had a mutual love for
Speaker 1: ktms at the time. And just for the audience, one
Speaker 1: of the things that I have always so enjoyed about
Speaker 1: you is that you have found a way to dive
Speaker 1: in professionally for a chunk of time and then you
Speaker 1: exit out of whatever it is that's of interest to
Speaker 1: you at that point in time, and then you go
Speaker 1: off and you see the world and you've done some
Speaker 1: incredible adventures. Maybe we'll just kind of kick it off
Speaker 1: with what do you think was your most ambitious of
Speaker 1: all of your of all of your trips to give
Speaker 1: the context, because you had like that seven Continent seventh
Speaker 1: Summit idea, Like, let's talk about and then let's introduce
Speaker 1: your son here.
Speaker 2: Who are you? Cyrus?
Speaker 1: Hey, Cyrus, thanks for being on the podcast. Buddy, you
Speaker 1: enjoying doing a road trip with your dad? Yeah, that's night.
Speaker 2: I ate so much that.
Speaker 3: My commute was so big. Yeah that Yeah, that's me
Speaker 3: both most days, buddy.
Speaker 2: And don't forget you wanted to just go camp in
Speaker 2: the middle of nowhere last night when you had a
Speaker 2: nice place to be. He's got you.
Speaker 3: Do you know how cool your dad is? By the way,
Speaker 3: no thumbs down. I don't know.
Speaker 1: It's pretty I get it. Man, at your age is
Speaker 1: pretty hard to know how cool your dad is. But
Speaker 1: your dad is really cool. He's done a lot of
Speaker 1: travel around the world.
Speaker 2: And that from Talladega nights. You ain't nothing but bones.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 3: We're all just a bag of bones trying to make
Speaker 3: it work.
Speaker 1: Huh. So tell me tell me about your favorite trip.
Speaker 1: Where's your favorite adventure been this one?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 1: And if I remember, you've already been to South America.
Speaker 1: Whor else have you been in the world?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 2: You lived in Taiwan, We had a Delica van.
Speaker 3: Oh, nice, in India. Nice.
Speaker 2: Well, we're about to go to Canada this summer, so
Speaker 2: it's yeah, we've got some good little runs. It's been
Speaker 2: a lot of domestic stuff. Tell them about like last
Speaker 2: summer when we went down the river in Idaho and
Speaker 2: then you you hitchhiked our way back up with a
Speaker 2: jet boat. Yeah. I was like half a million dollars.
Speaker 1: That's that is a pretty sweet jet boat. Well do
Speaker 1: you do you have some advice for people that are
Speaker 1: getting started in travel?
Speaker 3: What?
Speaker 1: What advice would you give to people about traveling? Never ever,
Speaker 1: never ever give up? That's a good one. That's a
Speaker 1: good one. There you go.
Speaker 3: Do you feel like you're chasing your dreams? Buddy? Yeah,
Speaker 3: you're going to though. I can see it in your eyes.
Speaker 2: A building.
Speaker 3: Oh that's cool. And what would you have in the building?
Speaker 3: A horse? Cars? Got it? Okay?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 3: Horses? Cars?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that makes sense. I can see you want.
Speaker 1: I mean, I think that's pretty much everybody. Most of
Speaker 1: the people that I know, their dream is to have
Speaker 1: a building with lots of cars, with lots of horsepower.
Speaker 2: He is all about horsepower. Yeah, he wants to go fast.
Speaker 2: What do you think, sy, Do you have any other
Speaker 2: adventures you want to share? How about snow cave camping?
Speaker 2: How about boats? Can I do a shout out two people?
Speaker 3: Yeah, you should do a shout out.
Speaker 2: A shout out to my dad and we go.
Speaker 3: And ever, I love you.
Speaker 2: I love you, Bud. We're proud of you.
Speaker 3: I love that. Well.
Speaker 1: I think that's I think it's pretty cool that you're
Speaker 1: on a road trip with your dad.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if my mom was.
Speaker 1: Here too, Yeah, that would be pretty'd be pretty awesome.
Speaker 1: You guys could all do it together.
Speaker 2: I'll tell you. He when he was born in Argentina,
Speaker 2: he got dual citizenship, right, so he has a tie
Speaker 2: to there. And he was on the front of a
Speaker 2: motorbike one of the first times with me, just buzzing
Speaker 2: around and about he says, keep going, keep going, very
Speaker 2: end of it. He'd already planned out a fourteen day
Speaker 2: motorbike trip with mom and dad Roe Argentina and where
Speaker 2: we're going to go. Well, anyway, you don't think so
Speaker 2: I did not plan did you plan out? Okay, never mind,
Speaker 2: I guess it was my imagination, idiot.
Speaker 3: Okay, good job, buddy, Yeah, nice work.
Speaker 2: But thanks for saying hi, and you can say ay longer.
Speaker 2: He was asking some I don't know if you know
Speaker 2: about some of the trip's dad's been on the see
Speaker 2: photos you always want to go to art adventures and
Speaker 2: there were also adventures I did before you came along.
Speaker 2: You believe that? Can you believe that Scott was asking
Speaker 2: about one of them? If you slow go faster?
Speaker 3: There you go. That's good advice.
Speaker 2: We've now watched Teldega Nights I bet fifteen times.
Speaker 3: There's some evidence to that. Does that sound pretty good?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Are you the first kid on the Journal podcast?
Speaker 1: He's one of the first. We've only we've only had
Speaker 1: a couple a couple of kids on. We need to
Speaker 1: have more, for sure, because kids know a lot more
Speaker 1: than imagination what we forgetting, you know, Yeah, I mean,
Speaker 1: like what a what a great reminder of Like to him,
Speaker 1: the trip that he's on is the best trip he's
Speaker 1: ever done, and that how many times have I screwed
Speaker 1: that up? Where either I'm thinking about a trip that
Speaker 1: I did years ago or I'm already imagining the next
Speaker 1: trip that I'm going to go on and not be
Speaker 1: in present. Yep, in the one that I'm currently enjoying,
Speaker 1: it should be enjoying. So good good reminder there, for sure,
Speaker 1: it really is.
Speaker 2: And I'm excited to see it continue rolling on. I'm
Speaker 2: curious what direction you'll send us out of here.
Speaker 3: Yeah, there's lots of places.
Speaker 2: Again, we've already done kind of the trains, planes, automobiles.
Speaker 2: Getting here right out of Seattle onto the plane. It
Speaker 2: was literally a forty four dollars ticket straight into here, right,
Speaker 2: so amazing, kind of red eyed night time. And I
Speaker 2: forgot our gaz a teer books of course, hit those up,
Speaker 2: grab what I can, and then we're we will just
Speaker 2: see right, it's it's whatever you're led to. You got
Speaker 2: a number of friends and places, and those places we
Speaker 2: don't know yet, and that's the element that I guess
Speaker 2: we're going for.
Speaker 1: Well, and it seems like it's about time together, so
Speaker 1: it really doesn't matter where you end up, so just
Speaker 1: having having a little adventure together. But well, let's dig
Speaker 1: let's dig in a little bit into you know what,
Speaker 1: what kicked you off on that kind of seven continents,
Speaker 1: seven summits idea, because that was I mean, that was
Speaker 1: I remember that being so inspiring to me of like, wow,
Speaker 1: you're right, you should dream big, you should dream as
Speaker 1: big as you can. And how far did you get
Speaker 1: into that project and what did you experience along the way.
Speaker 2: It was around the time I met you that I
Speaker 2: was a year out from conceiving the idea yeah. It
Speaker 2: was originally when i'd resigned from AG edwards and was
Speaker 2: eighty hour week into ibanking. Had a transition in life
Speaker 2: going in terms of you know, partner from Europe who'd
Speaker 2: gone back home, and I was thinking, well, what is
Speaker 2: it I want to do? And I strapped an old
Speaker 2: low backpack I'd got when I was about thirteen years old.
Speaker 2: It was already starting to get krusty on a number
Speaker 2: of different bikes, and ended up through the America's Africa,
Speaker 2: you know everything from kl rs to XR six hundred
Speaker 2: was an amazing bike that needed some valve work toward
Speaker 2: the end because of some foolish decisions on oil changes
Speaker 2: in Bolivia and then you know again like the tried
Speaker 2: and true in Africa, things like that. And along the
Speaker 2: way on that XR I ended up around the base
Speaker 2: of Acancagua. I had a killer feathered friends bag that
Speaker 2: I had gotten on a pro deal years before running
Speaker 2: this outdoor program at university. I went to and I said, hey,
Speaker 2: with a good bag, you can kind of do what
Speaker 2: you need. Right, Let's just see here, we'll make the
Speaker 2: gamble and I bet all figure this out. Because I
Speaker 2: didn't have the best tent and anyway, I make it
Speaker 2: to where I purchased half a mule of food, right
Speaker 2: like medio mula, and I'm roll into base camp first night.
Speaker 2: There's a Taiwanese guy. He's going to climb the Seven
Speaker 2: Summits for a company called Autunas that he called the
Speaker 2: Coleman of Taiwan. Okay, and he's on that journey. He
Speaker 2: starts scoffing at me, look at your equipment. How do
Speaker 2: you think you're gonna make it to the top of
Speaker 2: this mountain with good sleeping bag but three season tent
Speaker 2: and no summit jacket.
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And I looked at him, and I'm not a big guy,
Speaker 2: but he's well, actually, now I think about it, he's
Speaker 2: probably the best tall as I am. But I gave
Speaker 2: him this kind of like, okay, skinny guy, how you're
Speaker 2: getting all that gear up the mountain?
Speaker 3: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And we teamed up and I helped him get stuff
Speaker 2: up to some of the higher camps, shared resources. I
Speaker 2: found a jacket and made it to the summit of
Speaker 2: that mountain with him, and he made a really cool
Speaker 2: article in the Taiwanese climbing magazine that I met this American.
Speaker 2: He says he's going to climb this, but how's he
Speaker 2: going to make it? And I guess my response was
Speaker 2: because I'm cute, and he made that the theme of
Speaker 2: the beginning and end of his article. They came together
Speaker 2: really nice, right, Taiwanese people. Later we went when Si
Speaker 2: was nearly a year old, his the family. We went
Speaker 2: and spent the winter in Hawaiian City, Taiwan, I call
Speaker 2: it Hawaii, New Zealand, China and Japan gate birth to
Speaker 2: a baby island. Right, Wow, when you had the revolution,
Speaker 2: all these people who had there that have a very
Speaker 2: interesting philosophy on how life can be lived. I think
Speaker 2: there's a really interesting respect for autonomy for certain things
Speaker 2: that I value. And anyway, so we climbed that mountain
Speaker 2: and he told me, well, what you would come up
Speaker 2: with something fun? You love this stuff? And I said,
Speaker 2: was anybody tried to ride all dirt between the highest
Speaker 2: point of every continent and an inter year adventure? And
Speaker 2: that's where I suppose it was conceived, And you were
Speaker 2: honestly a very large inspiration and keeping it going right
Speaker 2: that you know, the budget was huge, the push to continue,
Speaker 2: but also so huge that you got to have the
Speaker 2: right sponsors and different things. So at the time, I
Speaker 2: was jumping on a lot of five twenty fives and
Speaker 2: I had gone to look into pit crewing and spending
Speaker 2: some time with friends that were rally Pan America, the
Speaker 2: only American team that was doing the car when it
Speaker 2: was what I viewed as to right like real Africa.
Speaker 2: And I built that bike out where it had more
Speaker 2: sustainability for long term travel.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I remember you up the oil volume and stuff
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and that actually was the five to seventy. So
Speaker 2: I stepped then next to this five seventy motor that
Speaker 2: of course now we know it's legendary in terms of
Speaker 2: one thousand hours. Don't even check the valves. And with
Speaker 2: the oil capacity thing you mentioned, it doubled the oil
Speaker 2: capacity I believe nearly through the frame rails. And I
Speaker 2: consulted with a lubrication SPA consultant who did things for
Speaker 2: Honda and KTM out of California, and I was curious
Speaker 2: about some of the how the loop of oil was
Speaker 2: actually circulating appropriately, but it did help. And it also
Speaker 2: it's one of those things with any vehicle, why not
Speaker 2: tap an area that you could dump three four leaders
Speaker 2: of oil in if something goes down and you could
Speaker 2: always drain it late. It gives you options. But yeah,
Speaker 2: so I started building that bike out and had access
Speaker 2: to a pretty good machine shop at a friend's Telemart
Speaker 2: binding company, C and CE machine and leads, and I
Speaker 2: modified some things, integrated it, and a lot of it
Speaker 2: came into that article that I'd love to make accessible again.
Speaker 2: One day that I thought to get came together really well.
Speaker 3: It was a great one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was wonderful. And I had gone up to
Speaker 2: alask actually on four wheels and kind of a combo
Speaker 2: of four wheels and two wheels, an over built seven
Speaker 2: to three powerstroke van that like fifteen fourteen thousand, A
Speaker 2: lot of them do Oh my god, it's burn and rubber.
Speaker 2: But that thing was fun. It had the front and
Speaker 2: rear wenches front. She was great, and I anyway ended
Speaker 2: up trying to integrate that part of the trip is
Speaker 2: like the beginning of then heading south and back to
Speaker 2: South America. And around that time, it was the fall
Speaker 2: after I met you. I also had a head on
Speaker 2: collision with a I won't name the company, but a
Speaker 2: major carrier, their big vehicle on the highway. They weren't watching,
Speaker 2: and I tore some rhomboids in my back and it
Speaker 2: took me about a year to get back on board
Speaker 2: with certain adventures and later guided a friend up awk
Speaker 2: in Cogwa. We got stuck in a storm for a
Speaker 2: number of days and so I was doing different sections
Speaker 2: of that trip, one of which I took the Husaberg
Speaker 2: five seventies. Safari had hooked me up with some big
Speaker 2: tank systems was at like eight point one gallons on
Speaker 2: four separate tanks. Wow, the integrated oil system. You know,
Speaker 2: some some really cool things. And I went south that
Speaker 2: trip only into the center of Central America and had
Speaker 2: a very interesting trip back up in that My timing
Speaker 2: was that okay, go home on this trip come back
Speaker 2: and I wasn't permitted to leave what became international space
Speaker 2: for five days with Mike as I had some very
Speaker 2: interesting extortion occurring with abugados, the attorneys, the order that
Speaker 2: wanted some payouts and anyway, Yeah, that trip over time,
Speaker 2: it fizzled, but the ambition was there. Yeah, and it's
Speaker 2: not to say it couldn't be completed.
Speaker 1: But the one of the one of the most incredible
Speaker 1: mountains in the world. I did not climb at Concogwa,
Speaker 1: but I do remember driving over the Andes and there's
Speaker 1: that one road that you can take between Argentina and
Speaker 1: Chile where you can see the summit if the if
Speaker 1: the conditions are right, and I just remember seeing that,
Speaker 1: and I'm like, that has got to be one of
Speaker 1: the most beautiful mountains on the planet. And it is
Speaker 1: known to be one of the most beautiful of the
Speaker 1: seven Summits.
Speaker 3: Just you know, it's like that perfectly shaped peak.
Speaker 2: It is. And imagine being up even spending days acclimatizing
Speaker 2: at say eighteen thousand feet roughly where Summits roughly right
Speaker 2: under twenty three, right, and you're looking down at the
Speaker 2: globe at the level, and those sunsets are something that's
Speaker 2: such magic. Yeah, And I've never witnessed something like what
Speaker 2: is up there at the right day, the right time.
Speaker 2: They're just in the biggest puffiest jacket yea. And yeah,
Speaker 2: those mountains are magical and just that combination of things.
Speaker 2: And I don't know if you had seen it was
Speaker 2: actually around the time I had gone for the second
Speaker 2: trip on Auchencogua, they did take the Husaberg five seventy,
Speaker 2: the highest point that a motorcycle was made on a
Speaker 2: little expedition. I've spoken with a number of them, and
Speaker 2: we were talking about trying to get some fuel injected
Speaker 2: bikes higher than the.
Speaker 3: Current world right of course, and they did.
Speaker 1: They go high on there's those volcanoes in somewhere in
Speaker 1: South America that they used to do those high altitude they.
Speaker 2: Did actually one of the peaks very close to auc
Speaker 2: and Cogua. But those volcanoes you're talking about. When I
Speaker 2: came through on the XR six hundred, I definitely had
Speaker 2: some vinegar in me. I was twenty six, twenty seven, overworked,
Speaker 2: passionate about you know, transition in life and where you
Speaker 2: are right and I took that XR as far as
Speaker 2: that jet would permit the higher altitude get and my
Speaker 2: guess is it was close to eighteen and a half.
Speaker 3: I don't know, that's very high.
Speaker 2: And that became a really painful experience in the sense
Speaker 2: that I ate alpaca meat in the nearby village. They
Speaker 2: it was off season and they permitted me to go
Speaker 2: with a radio and actually rent the hard boots I
Speaker 2: needed in the crampons alone, but there was one check
Speaker 2: in with the radio and at the time my Spanish
Speaker 2: had not advanced as it has in recent years, and
Speaker 2: I didn't want to make them worried, but I that
Speaker 2: brought now pack of me gave me some serious squirts.
Speaker 3: Oh no, I was leaving what.
Speaker 2: Looked like there was some sort of calev.
Speaker 3: They would have found you, They would have.
Speaker 2: Found me exactly. I never thought of it that way. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they would have. And that summit was right at twenty two.
Speaker 2: And I remember hitting twenty one and I was getting
Speaker 2: a mix of cerebral and pulmon area demon which I'd
Speaker 2: had minor versions of at different times, and ones helped
Speaker 2: off of the Grand Teeton because I was a little
Speaker 2: too ambitious leaving sea level. Yeah, I had friends that weren't.
Speaker 2: You know. The most painful of the two is cerebral,
Speaker 2: of course, because your skull is expanding and you can
Speaker 2: hear crackling. Anyway, I got down lower and it felt
Speaker 2: like did you ever see the movie Touching the Void?
Speaker 1: Oh?
Speaker 2: Yeah, Yeah, it was a little like that in the tent.
Speaker 2: Because I got back, energy was low, somehow loaded the
Speaker 2: motorbike and got down and out of there. And yeah
Speaker 2: the village, though returning there still wasn't good meat. Yeah,
Speaker 2: they're good food in general, and I had to load
Speaker 2: up again. And yeah, Bolivia at that time was one
Speaker 2: of the more chaotic countries I'd spent time in.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's still fairly chaotic. Difficult to get fuel and
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff. Maybe not so bad on a bike.
Speaker 1: They probably take some you know, some care of motorcyclists
Speaker 1: that come through, but people that are driving through in
Speaker 1: a truck, you can it could be hard to get
Speaker 1: fuel in that country, yes.
Speaker 2: And good quality products. Like I said, that's where the
Speaker 2: oil change. I thought, change oil. And remember, you know
Speaker 2: you're putting you could be putting in something that doesn't
Speaker 2: have the right tolerances and additives, and who knows, you know,
Speaker 2: if it's what led to in southern Argentinea. I mean
Speaker 2: I had to sell it for close to nothing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but got something out of it, and we had a
Speaker 2: rental car and jetted back north again. And you know
Speaker 2: you start out in Africa next on something new amazing.
Speaker 1: Well, let we'll take a little pause on that story
Speaker 1: because we're going to continue with Africa in a minute.
Speaker 1: But one of the things I think is that people
Speaker 1: would find interesting and can learn from is, you know,
Speaker 1: talk a little bit about how you set yourself up
Speaker 1: professionally because you did M and A work mergers and acquisitions,
Speaker 1: you were helping family offices with acquisitions, you were working
Speaker 1: in banking. I mean, I'm probably got some of that wrong,
Speaker 1: but let's talk through a little bit about how did
Speaker 1: you set things up? Like how did you first realize like, oh,
Speaker 1: that could work for me? And then how did you
Speaker 1: set things up to be able to work for a
Speaker 1: couple of years and then literally go travel.
Speaker 3: The world for a few more years.
Speaker 2: How did you set that up at some level, I'd
Speaker 2: say spreadsheets, Yeah, as a geek, right, you can make
Speaker 2: great projections on many things. Numbers don't lie, right, And
Speaker 2: I'd say, though, one of the bigger takeaways from being
Speaker 2: someone who studied economics is the key term marginal propensity
Speaker 2: to consume. I always looked at it like, I'm not
Speaker 2: in this to break even. How am I going to
Speaker 2: create time and freedom? And I've experimented very broadly with
Speaker 2: it in terms of in recent years, I was able
Speaker 2: to find a very interesting, inaccessible piece of land that
Speaker 2: taxation is almost nothing. Those sorts of things sell for
Speaker 2: pennies on the dollar, and I just look at everything
Speaker 2: in terms of the arbitrage opportunity and getting positioned. Though
Speaker 2: I'd say for what my life ultimately has been able
Speaker 2: to become took keeping that low marginal propensity to consume
Speaker 2: and to have the diligence to see through your opportunity
Speaker 2: cost of is it by this burger when you know
Speaker 2: I can very easily And I mean in recent years
Speaker 2: I got a little tired of it, but hey, roadkilled deer.
Speaker 3: Even yeah, sure.
Speaker 2: Learn you learn what's there That often is even better. Right.
Speaker 2: It's about letting things find you as opposed to finding
Speaker 2: them yourself. And I find that in the chaos of
Speaker 2: the modern world, with as much as we make things
Speaker 2: really rapid fire, you don't have the ability, like most
Speaker 2: people are inefficiently entering spaces where they're not allowing for
Speaker 2: the WU way let's just call it, where those opportunities
Speaker 2: are sitting there in front of you. And every day
Speaker 2: you can almost reset your life if you allow yourself
Speaker 2: to take one browniean motion move, one random move that
Speaker 2: leads to that day having that intersection. And I'd say
Speaker 2: intersectionality except for it almost becomes politically using the term now,
Speaker 2: but like where you're going to have that intersection, it's
Speaker 2: going to lead to new things every day, and I'd
Speaker 2: say that, really, yeah, it just comes down to having
Speaker 2: the diligence to be around you. You look around yourself
Speaker 2: and say, what do I care about? And how can
Speaker 2: I allocate every ounce of resource into something that's going
Speaker 2: to bring me the greatest joy. I suppose, right, is
Speaker 2: the geeky economist element and.
Speaker 1: Again, and I watched you do that. I mean, I
Speaker 1: you know, I remember you know to your point. You know,
Speaker 1: I'm not going to spend money at this restaurant because
Speaker 1: that could be two days of travel. Yeah, legit, I'm
Speaker 1: going to ride a motorcycle that I bought, used and
Speaker 1: I did minimal modifications. Maybe I got some sponsorship because
Speaker 1: by not spending eighty grand on a full drive, I
Speaker 1: can travel for two years. And I watched you you
Speaker 1: do that time and time again where you're you were.
Speaker 1: So maybe purity is a part of it. And I
Speaker 1: think that that human beings can do that. They can
Speaker 1: stay they can stay very pure to a value or
Speaker 1: to a goal if they just get over the ego
Speaker 1: a little bit where it's like I don't have to
Speaker 1: have that fancy thing, or I don't have to spend
Speaker 1: that extra money on something that might signal something to
Speaker 1: the world, but it actually stands directly in the way
Speaker 1: of me achieving what I really want to experience in life.
Speaker 1: You know, you talked about that intersection of values that
Speaker 1: you experienced when you were in Taiwan. Why don't we
Speaker 1: dig into that a little bit. What are you finding
Speaker 1: after so many years of I wouldn't call you an ascetic,
Speaker 1: but you're definitely you're willing to be minimalist. You're willing
Speaker 1: to dig into some roadkill deer in order to provide
Speaker 1: the protein that you need to save yourself a ton
Speaker 1: of money. So talk a little bit about those intersections
Speaker 1: of values, how your experience has reinforced those values, and
Speaker 1: how you implement them in your life today.
Speaker 2: Sure the adventure that has come from I think that
Speaker 2: in answering your question, i'd bring up that in the
Speaker 2: middle of many travels, I started having some very interesting
Speaker 2: phenomena in terms of autoimmunity that resulted in, you know,
Speaker 2: at times being fully on cripple crutches where don't want
Speaker 2: to move. Inflammation from the insides like a little nuclear bomb. Right.
Speaker 2: That slowed me down to a level that I could
Speaker 2: appreciate things even at the next level that at times,
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. I keep my cripple crutches
Speaker 2: pretty handy. Sometimes I'm great, sometimes I'm not. And I'd
Speaker 2: say that there has been an interesting walk into being
Speaker 2: someone who, you know, I had an interesting upbringing in
Speaker 2: Jackson Hole, where my mother came from a good family
Speaker 2: but was orphaned called good family and met my dad
Speaker 2: in the early twenties to buy one thing that was meaningful,
Speaker 2: which was a place to raise children in a beautiful
Speaker 2: place where they had a little farm. And I witnessed
Speaker 2: my mother's health drop off. And I was always very
Speaker 2: motivated to hustle and you know, work hard. And I
Speaker 2: sort of witnessed my dad that guy who did whatever
Speaker 2: he had to do, and I saw the trade off.
Speaker 2: One of the harder things was being a thirteen fourteen
Speaker 2: year old kid who'd been working for years for his
Speaker 2: black belt in taekwondo night that the testing was coming
Speaker 2: through with one hundred bucks for the testing, you know
Speaker 2: you're going to get it, or a hundred bucks is
Speaker 2: actually going to lead to some cool things our family
Speaker 2: can use. Yeah, And I made that decision, and I
Speaker 2: think it's if you fast forward into life I've at
Speaker 2: times I try never to have any regret. The worst
Speaker 2: thing you can do is carry regret. But I try
Speaker 2: to end up in a position that if I can
Speaker 2: look forward, what's going to give me the most utility?
Speaker 2: Like I mentioned, So, yeah, those trade offs like what
Speaker 2: do you value and what is your greatest dream? So
Speaker 2: if in the case of two ill seven summits, it
Speaker 2: was a huge dream, or was it simply that I
Speaker 2: allowed myself by the time that I'd been working hard
Speaker 2: for a while to say a year, twenty grand whatever
Speaker 2: comes first. And I wasn't that efficient at the time,
Speaker 2: But I mean I was certainly so damn cheap that
Speaker 2: I remember being in Mendoza, Argentina, and I you shaving
Speaker 2: cream and I was shaving my face without cream and
Speaker 2: turning it, you know, because I'm I'm just trying to
Speaker 2: cut every corner that I stink and can and in retrospect,
Speaker 2: you know, like what are you doing? But I've had
Speaker 2: a really fun process of having a chunk of land
Speaker 2: that I had to cut my way into that has
Speaker 2: gravity feed springs, and that you're having all of your
Speaker 2: adventures and your experiences, but you're removing yourself from let's say,
Speaker 2: even though there's a big power line in some proximity,
Speaker 2: how about a minor solar system. And let's see the
Speaker 2: way we can integrate an old arb fridge with no battery,
Speaker 2: a ton of old sleeping bags around it, and you're
Speaker 2: going to have it oscillaid up and down slightly but
Speaker 2: stay right on frozen all the time with no battery,
Speaker 2: just tinkering it. Yeah, And you find that really it's
Speaker 2: nearly an illusion that we need certain things. And this is,
Speaker 2: of course my take, but the story always is that
Speaker 2: we need big Brother to do something for us. And
Speaker 2: I personally sort of see this world where the more
Speaker 2: we have agency, which is a word that you added
Speaker 2: earlier that I love that really describes what I think
Speaker 2: is going to keep humanity on a plane that will
Speaker 2: have a better outcome in the long term.
Speaker 3: And it seems like it's done that for you.
Speaker 1: It seems like the agency that you've employed in your life,
Speaker 1: the fact that you're like, all right, I'm going to
Speaker 1: dig in. I remember one of the times you and
Speaker 1: I were catching up. You were on a private jet
Speaker 1: probably what you were You were on a private jet
Speaker 1: and you were going off to do some big deal,
Speaker 1: and you were crushing it. You were in full consultant
Speaker 1: mode and you were working for someone on a big deal,
Speaker 1: and then the next time I talked to you, you
Speaker 1: were heading off to someplace crazy in the world on
Speaker 1: a four thousand dollars motorcycle. To me was it's been
Speaker 1: very evident that you've chosen to have agency over the
Speaker 1: experiences that you have in life and how they change you.
Speaker 1: And that's to me, I found it very inspiring, Absolutely
Speaker 1: found it inspiring to see that, Like to watch you
Speaker 1: operate at really are two extremes, but your heart was
Speaker 1: really only in one of them, which is experiences. But
Speaker 1: you're willing to be like, all right, I'm gonna go
Speaker 1: I'm gonna dig really deep into the professional space to
Speaker 1: make enough money to.
Speaker 3: Go screw off.
Speaker 1: For two years, not a week goes by that someone
Speaker 1: doesn't reach out to ask how they can help support
Speaker 1: the podcast. We are supported entirely by Overland Journal the magazine.
Speaker 1: So when you become a subscriber to the Overland Journal
Speaker 1: print magazine, you get this beautiful book that comes in
Speaker 1: five times a year. It also gives you access to
Speaker 1: our digital archive, and it's well over one hundred pages
Speaker 1: of gorgeous images and detailed testing and adventures from around
Speaker 1: the globe. So if you go to Overland Journal dot
Speaker 1: com and you subscribe to the magazine, use the code
Speaker 1: overland Podcast and that'll get you twenty percent off. It's
Speaker 1: only available to our podcast listeners. We don't advertising anywhere else,
Speaker 1: and then you help us to maintain that independent, employee
Speaker 1: owned journalism that we have been famous for, so it
Speaker 1: allows us to conduct those tests without any advertorial Another
Speaker 1: way you can help out too. I produced a book
Speaker 1: last year with Simon and Schuster called Overlanding one oh one.
Speaker 1: You could find it on Amazon or Barnes and Noble
Speaker 1: or even your local bookstore, and that encompasses my decades
Speaker 1: of travel around the world, all my mistakes and failures
Speaker 1: and the lessons that I've learned in traveling around the globe.
Speaker 1: Many of those that you hear on the podcast have
Speaker 1: been distilled down into print form with great lists and
Speaker 1: beautiful imagery. So you can find that at your local bookstore.
Speaker 1: Overlanding one on one And thank you all for listening
Speaker 1: and for supporting us so much throughout these years.
Speaker 2: It's been one of the greatest liberties. Yeah to have
Speaker 2: that and at times, you know, you wish that you
Speaker 2: dove deeper. You know, we just had a wonderful experience
Speaker 2: with for a couple of nights, they had us over
Speaker 2: by Arizona and or by Phoenix, And at times you
Speaker 2: want those creature comforts more, right, And it's that sacrifice, though,
Speaker 2: that wakes you up, makes you appreciate what you do
Speaker 2: have around you. In contrast, I think contrast is such
Speaker 2: a beautiful element. And I'm glad I've been able to
Speaker 2: do what I've been able to. And you know, in
Speaker 2: whatever way even the next generation chooses, is that or not,
Speaker 2: we'll see. God. We just are sitting where the paradigm
Speaker 2: is changing so rapidly ai and degrades its way in
Speaker 2: our face for our lives.
Speaker 3: People, Yeah, you are.
Speaker 1: You are the next generation buddies, you are, which is
Speaker 1: a good thing we need, we need that. I think
Speaker 1: about my nephews and I'm like, these kids are awesome.
Speaker 1: Like they're way more awesome than I was. They're way
Speaker 1: more kind of aware of life and thoughtful of others.
Speaker 1: And there's like it, there's a depth to them, maybe
Speaker 1: because they've been able to learn so rapidly, because the
Speaker 1: availability of information and probably the versity of the people
Speaker 1: that they exchange time with. But the kids are just awesome, like,
Speaker 1: way more cool than I ever was.
Speaker 2: I'll take it all day long being around a kid.
Speaker 2: I keep reminding my dad, who will hear this, you know,
Speaker 2: let the kids be loud, to let them knock around,
Speaker 2: have their fun. And like, I think there's some sort
Speaker 2: of quote that may have religious context as just the
Speaker 2: closer you can be to a child at the end
Speaker 2: of your life, the closer you will be to some
Speaker 2: sort of a heaven or bliss. Sure, and I strive
Speaker 2: for that. I Thineah, it's a very important element.
Speaker 1: Well, we talked earlier today an interesting confluence of both
Speaker 1: of our lives that we only just found out this
Speaker 1: morning when we were catching up. But you know, your
Speaker 1: dad is struggling with some health concerns and my dad is.
Speaker 1: In fact, they both had sounds like strokes about the
Speaker 1: same time, about a year and.
Speaker 3: A half ago. How do you process that.
Speaker 1: Change the fact the reality that you know, you have
Speaker 1: your son that's coming into life, and we have our parents.
Speaker 1: You know, I lost my mom years ago, and how
Speaker 1: has that informed.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's it really hard of your one thing
Speaker 2: I'm very happy that I did. In twenty fifteen, I
Speaker 2: was doing a lot of Asia six months of the
Speaker 2: year whatever it was, Himalaya is Southeast Asia, islands wherever.
Speaker 2: And I was notified that two friends passed in the year.
Speaker 2: A man who was a very inspirational element and mentor
Speaker 2: in my life, who had been the CEO of Columbia
Speaker 2: Star Pictures and Fox in the seventies. Very I worked
Speaker 2: at a restaurant he had in Jackson Hole when I
Speaker 2: was a teenager, and he opened amazing doors for me
Speaker 2: and I the respect I hold for that man, it's immense,
Speaker 2: just the perspective and a friend and a paraglider the
Speaker 2: same week. My only reaction was call Dad, Dad, getting
Speaker 2: I'm meeting you in North Vietnam. The man had never
Speaker 2: left the country in his life.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 2: And for him to show up on the plane and
Speaker 2: just be jazzed ready to go, and he was still
Speaker 2: healthy enough. It was that one moment that he had
Speaker 2: to get him on something big like that, for never
Speaker 2: knowing where life went. And of course he shows up
Speaker 2: with a city and knives and he's like, check out
Speaker 2: what I snuff. So proud of him. He went hard
Speaker 2: for about three four days with me. We've got great photos.
Speaker 2: We were out having you know, how was it. He
Speaker 2: was seventy two, maybe seventy and we're in there he's
Speaker 2: eighty two now and you know, having their local drinks
Speaker 2: and foods, and he almost biffs it so hard, a
Speaker 2: silly move, but his athleticism as if he's kind of
Speaker 2: a pioneer of freestyle skiing, and he did this perfect
Speaker 2: move on the bike.
Speaker 3: I witnessed that.
Speaker 2: I was like, no way would anyone else pulled that off.
Speaker 2: Riding for forty years, right, he just jumps on. And
Speaker 2: now to have the end of that and him tell
Speaker 2: me that was about my favorite experience I've ever had.
Speaker 2: Even though I got to revisit with him after his stroke,
Speaker 2: I think he's rewired some thoughts a little, but he
Speaker 2: didn't lose his memories and he didn't lose his awareness.
Speaker 2: He's just now slow and struggles to speak at times.
Speaker 2: And I'm just really happy that we were able to
Speaker 2: do that, that that experience happened. And now in the
Speaker 2: midst of this energy, that's a child in his imagination
Speaker 2: and his lust for life that reinvigorates in myself through
Speaker 2: his proximity and vice versa. I'm sure that is what
Speaker 2: life is about. I look at it. I say, we
Speaker 2: have our relationships and our memories, and there are so
Speaker 2: many things that simply are not worth our energy to
Speaker 2: not partake in that have a darkness about them, and
Speaker 2: there are things that possess a light that is so
Speaker 2: bright and lovely. I'd rather take that path.
Speaker 3: Why do you think people keep taking the other path?
Speaker 3: Why do you think people keep doing the things that
Speaker 3: they're not that they shouldn't. They know even they know
Speaker 3: they shouldn't.
Speaker 2: There's a little bit around that hurt people, hurt people.
Speaker 2: You just can't help yourself because you're caught in the
Speaker 2: thought that somehow them having fun will restrict your ability
Speaker 2: to enjoy. And man, the more I can I mean,
Speaker 2: I know, being me, I've at times been a very
Speaker 2: bold element and it doesn't help me, and it times
Speaker 2: it does. But I would say that over time, most
Speaker 2: of the most of those people that are choosing that
Speaker 2: path of like I go as far back to being
Speaker 2: a sixth grader and the kid that would go tattletale
Speaker 2: on all the fun you were having when it's a subteacher, right, like,
Speaker 2: why were they doing that? And usually I think there's
Speaker 2: something that is in themselves that they're I think there's
Speaker 2: probably jealousy at times when you act in a way
Speaker 2: that you want to harm others, And I thought that's
Speaker 2: what SI was actually brings up. There was something I
Speaker 2: said that I don't know how it resonated with him,
Speaker 2: but it was being people in the fast lane going slow,
Speaker 2: and I said, I don't like being held up. And
Speaker 2: the last thing in this world I would ever want
Speaker 2: to do is hold another person up for like achieving
Speaker 2: their ambitions and finding the joy and growth that is
Speaker 2: in their life. And one thing that I think I
Speaker 2: can say about those people who choose that is that
Speaker 2: I can almost thank them for creating a tangent which
Speaker 2: led to my own growth that maybe I never would
Speaker 2: have experienced in the path of life that I'm in,
Speaker 2: because we're all on a different page here, and we
Speaker 2: all have different obstacles that we either create for ourselves,
Speaker 2: others create for us, or it's something bigger than we
Speaker 2: could ever explain.
Speaker 1: But yeah, we learn a lot from each one of
Speaker 1: those things if we allow ourselves. I mean, recently, I've
Speaker 1: been thinking a lot about that, you know, because so
Speaker 1: much has changed in my life in the last couple
Speaker 1: of years. And you know, I was just thinking about
Speaker 1: the other day. You know, it's like, we got to
Speaker 1: have we got to have some purpose. We really do
Speaker 1: need to have something to chase a little bit. We
Speaker 1: got to have something that that gets us up in
Speaker 1: the morning, gives little puts a little fire in the belly.
Speaker 1: So I do realize like that I know that I
Speaker 1: need that. I'm not saying that everybody needs that, but
Speaker 1: I know that I need that.
Speaker 3: I need that that I need to.
Speaker 1: Do hard things that gives me a lot of joy.
Speaker 1: And then I think the one thing that I've really
Speaker 1: screwed up on in my life is I just haven't
Speaker 1: had enough play. From the outside it would I've traveled
Speaker 1: so much and I've done I've had so many experiences,
Speaker 1: but they've always been like in the pursuit of the purpose, goal,
Speaker 1: the goal. Like I'm very driven, but I did not
Speaker 1: stop and smell the roses much or at all in
Speaker 1: my life. You know, when I think about talking with
Speaker 1: others that are maybe starting off on the journey similar
Speaker 1: to what I started off on twenty thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: you know, there's that it's such a cliche cliche to say,
Speaker 1: you know, like stop and smell the roses, but holy cow,
Speaker 1: there's some truth to that, like you know, finding like
Speaker 1: you talked about earlier about being at you know, at
Speaker 1: the top of at Congagua and actually remembering that sunset
Speaker 1: that was happening, and that's because you were intentional in
Speaker 1: that moment to stop and watch that unfold. So I
Speaker 1: don't I know that I haven't had enough play and
Speaker 1: I haven't had enough of those that kind of joy
Speaker 1: in my life. And then I absolutely agree with you
Speaker 1: about connection. It's about the people that we know. And
Speaker 1: it's so funny when you look back at that, like
Speaker 1: purpose and doing hard things and play and having fun
Speaker 1: and joy and connecting with others. None of that requires
Speaker 1: a lot of money. And that's why you can see,
Speaker 1: you know, someone in a village in Malawi that's just
Speaker 1: got limitless joy. They're super happy because they're you know,
Speaker 1: they're challenged, and they're they're purpose in their life and
Speaker 1: their family, and they're connected with others and you know,
Speaker 1: they're having fun. They're playing in the lake and throwing
Speaker 1: a playing soccer or whatever. It's like it's really not
Speaker 1: that difficult, but boy, do we make it difficult sometimes.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's nine reaction. I was reminded of what you
Speaker 2: just said the flowers about two and a half months
Speaker 2: ago by very lovely woman in my life I love
Speaker 2: so much, and she actually was the one ironically in
Speaker 2: thinking this that she said, are you ever stopping to
Speaker 2: smell the flowers? And that end goal thing is actually
Speaker 2: a large component if I'll ever get online for you.
Speaker 2: A couple of those episodes of the Why did You
Speaker 2: come to Japan Japanese show, one of their more bigger things,
Speaker 2: that's a theme. It's a very well thought out show
Speaker 2: has to do with why did you say? For example,
Speaker 2: I was peddling a bicycle through Japan that I picked
Speaker 2: up hitchhiking. I called it a mom bike. This thing
Speaker 2: had three years of basket on. I had the economist
Speaker 2: in the front and a big jacket sleeping bag. The
Speaker 2: jacket I got at some used store. Bicycle was given
Speaker 2: to me by a Peruvian Japanese.
Speaker 3: Guy, which is great, race, amazing, and.
Speaker 2: They're like, you didn't achieve your goal? Was the whole
Speaker 2: thing because I was just going home. I was tired
Speaker 2: of at the time. It was the rain and communicate
Speaker 2: and I just kind of wanted to go home and
Speaker 2: they're at the airport and they're like, why are you
Speaker 2: doing this? And it was that same like, because I
Speaker 2: want to enjoy the journey right now, it may not
Speaker 2: be that like I guess you got to know. It's
Speaker 2: almost it's similar to climbing a mountain. At what point
Speaker 2: do you actually stop and see what the crystal ball
Speaker 2: says and is it worth continuing? And it depends upon
Speaker 2: what your goals are at that juncture. Michael was I
Speaker 2: kind of want to go back home to Jackson Hole
Speaker 2: and see some friends jump into hot spring even though
Speaker 2: it's hot springs there. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you wanted to change change the scenery. Yeah, absolutely so, Yeah,
Speaker 3: I know that's such an important one.
Speaker 1: Well, let's talk a little bit about travel ethos and
Speaker 1: kind of how you prep for trips. You've done a
Speaker 1: lot most of your trips have been on lightweight motorcycles.
Speaker 1: Why do you choose lightweight motorcycles and kind of how
Speaker 1: do you tend to set them up?
Speaker 2: Yes, so I'm a horsepower junkie. I like power to wait, KTM,
Speaker 2: who's the burg, Who's Kavarna? Just they nothing really competes.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they dominate.
Speaker 2: They dominate, and I got on that train at a
Speaker 2: point in time, and there's this motor that you know,
Speaker 2: the article I wrote for you guys later. You know,
Speaker 2: people see pretty clearly thousand hours don't even check the valves.
Speaker 2: So going with something first that I look for what
Speaker 2: makes a sexy bike first power and maybe equally longevity.
Speaker 2: But you know, KLR is that that sexy? I don't
Speaker 2: think so, So you need the balance. It's that that
Speaker 2: hybrid component of both. And I like something that I
Speaker 2: feel I could slide under a barbed wire fence. I
Speaker 2: could probably push it through a river after I throw
Speaker 2: a plastic bag around the intake and have some help
Speaker 2: somewhere pushing it. You know, even nearby here the ver
Speaker 2: Day River multiple times right where you're gonna have to
Speaker 2: turn back one hundred miles or you could continue and
Speaker 2: hit some insane desert from here. Something that feels agile,
Speaker 2: like it's a rat dape under you and it is terran.
Speaker 2: That is something to me that it keeps your limp flowing. Yeah,
Speaker 2: so yeah, I'd say that that kind of bike is
Speaker 2: huge in my world to have.
Speaker 1: Well, maybe we'll just wrap it up with like, how
Speaker 1: do you normally pack your gear on the bike.
Speaker 2: Okay, these days, I'm still using bags that Pate always
Speaker 2: was offering me bags with his Moscow motos that I
Speaker 2: think he's done great bags. Yeah, the best thing, and
Speaker 2: talk about nine fifties before he can as he was
Speaker 2: conceiving the ideas for the company. I met him at
Speaker 2: a gas station randomly in Mexico and we camp for
Speaker 2: a night. Started telling me all about what he's gonna do. Yeah, Like,
Speaker 2: this guy seems like he's on.
Speaker 1: It and he has been. Man, he's a good had
Speaker 1: a good run. I just got a bunch of his Uh,
Speaker 1: I'm going to go test the new Prillia rally Okay,
Speaker 1: Toreg Rally in Utah and next week.
Speaker 3: Awesome.
Speaker 1: So he sent me all of his Moscow his new
Speaker 1: Adventure motorcycle gear. So I've got one of his little
Speaker 1: Peico tank bags and I got all of his jacket
Speaker 1: and pants and stuff like that. Man, it's really great
Speaker 1: to see you. I'm glad to see that you're doing well.
Speaker 1: And we got to stay in touch more than texting
Speaker 1: each other every three.
Speaker 3: Years or so.
Speaker 1: We're always in some random cool spot in the world,
Speaker 1: usually at the same time. You know, different parts of
Speaker 1: the world, but we're always doing something fun together and
Speaker 1: I've always wanted to have you on the podcast, and
Speaker 1: when you reached out that you were coming through Prescott,
Speaker 1: I'm like, I got to make that work because I'm
Speaker 1: around for one day and we were able to pull
Speaker 1: it off. So, man, thank you so much for being
Speaker 1: on the podcast. Yeah, we'll do it again. We thank
Speaker 1: you all for listening. We'll talk to you next time.
Speaker 2: Awesome, great,