1 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: Carl Jung once said that knowing your own darkness is 2 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:10,479 Speaker 1: the best method for dealing with the darkness of other people. 3 00:00:11,039 --> 00:00:14,640 Speaker 1: But what if that other person is your father. This 4 00:00:14,720 --> 00:00:18,960 Speaker 1: story covers two lives, a father and his daughter, and 5 00:00:19,040 --> 00:00:24,960 Speaker 1: two paths, a killer and a victim. I'm Lauren Bright Pacheco, 6 00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:26,680 Speaker 1: and this is happy Face. 7 00:00:33,479 --> 00:00:35,840 Speaker 2: I got a phone call. You guys were in bed. 8 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 3: I got a phone call, and this guy gets on 9 00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 3: the phone and he says, I know where you're at. 10 00:00:42,560 --> 00:00:48,120 Speaker 3: You're in the kitchen and you're wearing this. I was petrified. 11 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,800 Speaker 3: Oh my god. So I closed the door to the 12 00:00:51,840 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 3: kid's room and I turned off all the lights because 13 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,160 Speaker 3: I didn't want him to know where I was at. 14 00:00:57,520 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 3: But whoever called me exactly where I was in the house, 15 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:04,480 Speaker 3: and he knew exactly what I was wearing, so I 16 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:07,120 Speaker 3: knew he could see me for wherever he was. So 17 00:01:07,160 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 3: I turned the lights off and I called nine one one, 18 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,839 Speaker 3: and they said, well, if they haven't broken in anything, 19 00:01:14,880 --> 00:01:15,800 Speaker 3: there's nothing we can do. 20 00:01:15,880 --> 00:01:17,520 Speaker 2: I go, oh, you're still comforting, you know. 21 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,200 Speaker 3: But the fortunate thing for me is I was babysitting 22 00:01:22,440 --> 00:01:27,319 Speaker 3: my sister's two dogs and I was sitting on the Countain, 23 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 3: and I said, oh, my god, Lord, if you take me, 24 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:31,559 Speaker 3: if he kills me. 25 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:33,639 Speaker 2: Just don't let my kids find me in the morning. 26 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 2: Please don't let them find me. 27 00:01:37,240 --> 00:01:41,480 Speaker 3: And I sat with the dogs next to me. I 28 00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:47,600 Speaker 3: can see the door handle turning and the dogs went ballistic. 29 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 3: And whoever it was left. 30 00:01:54,560 --> 00:01:57,040 Speaker 2: Do you think he got something to oh? He said 31 00:01:57,080 --> 00:02:01,000 Speaker 2: he did. Keith states that he hired someone. 32 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 4: How did you know that it was him that was 33 00:02:03,680 --> 00:02:04,280 Speaker 4: trying to put a. 34 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 2: Hit on you? Because that was the only who else 35 00:02:06,880 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 2: knew where I lived. 36 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:21,840 Speaker 5: It's been a long long Thanks God, Mesta, you stay 37 00:02:22,040 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 5: since Durren, the dream of you bell leto you be 38 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:34,120 Speaker 5: let go. 39 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:46,720 Speaker 1: Fagged Upso No, I'm on the road with Melissa Moore, 40 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,919 Speaker 1: the daughter of the happy faced serial killer Noel. Our 41 00:02:49,960 --> 00:02:52,640 Speaker 1: producer is also in the car with us, and we've 42 00:02:52,800 --> 00:02:56,200 Speaker 1: just left her mother, Rose's office. Rose told us this 43 00:02:56,360 --> 00:03:00,520 Speaker 1: terrifying story about how Keith had threatened her even from prison, 44 00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 1: he had hired somebody to possibly even murder her, and 45 00:03:04,280 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 1: Melissa's beginning to realize that none of her childhood homes 46 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: were truly ever safe. 47 00:03:11,280 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 5: Let's actually go there. 48 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 6: I want to go to the first place I stopped 49 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,240 Speaker 6: when we came to Spokane. Are you okay with that? 50 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:22,200 Speaker 6: If I take you there, it worse. I'm on Hamilton Road, 51 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,399 Speaker 6: which is the road my mom took when we got 52 00:03:25,440 --> 00:03:28,440 Speaker 6: to Spokane to head over to my grandma's house. And 53 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 6: everything was new to me. I have never seen so 54 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:34,480 Speaker 6: many buildings so close to each other. 55 00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:36,800 Speaker 5: There's so many cars. 56 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 6: This was a site that I've never seen before, and 57 00:03:39,520 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 6: it was thrilling to me as a young girl. It 58 00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,640 Speaker 6: was absolutely exciting, despite knowing my mom had just said 59 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 6: that her and my dad were separating, which I didn't believe. 60 00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 5: It didn't feel real. 61 00:03:51,640 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 6: I felt that this was a temporary situation, that they 62 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,240 Speaker 6: would get back together, that this was just going to 63 00:03:57,320 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 6: be like a summer vacation. 64 00:04:00,480 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 1: When you moved to your grandparents' house, how did your 65 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:05,760 Speaker 1: day to day change. 66 00:04:06,680 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 5: My grandma, you. 67 00:04:07,800 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 6: Know, didn't expect to be hosting a family in her house, 68 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,440 Speaker 6: and so there's no way she could have prepared. Even 69 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,800 Speaker 6: if she could have prepared, So her basement was an 70 00:04:16,880 --> 00:04:21,719 Speaker 6: unfinished basement, was all cement, cement floors, and there was 71 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:28,040 Speaker 6: a canning cellar with this old reclaimed wood, and there 72 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 6: was no There was one bedroom that was finished in 73 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:36,039 Speaker 6: the basement with like particle board. But my area that 74 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:38,800 Speaker 6: I picked was the cellar room, and I had a 75 00:04:38,880 --> 00:04:41,599 Speaker 6: room for a cot, and then there was no room 76 00:04:41,640 --> 00:04:44,880 Speaker 6: for any furnishings. We didn't have any furniture, so I 77 00:04:45,000 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 6: used shoe boxes to organize my underwear. 78 00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:51,479 Speaker 5: And my socks my cardboard. 79 00:04:51,560 --> 00:04:54,080 Speaker 6: Yeah, cardboard shoe boxes, And that was kind of like 80 00:04:54,120 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 6: my makeshift dresser. I thought I was going to last 81 00:05:05,880 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 6: just a week or two, but it quickly turned into 82 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 6: the whole summer, and then summer quickly turned into I 83 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,280 Speaker 6: was going to fifth grade now. My mom was registering 84 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:20,320 Speaker 6: me at Evergreen Elementary here, and once she registered me 85 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,920 Speaker 6: for fifth grade here, it now felt like, oh, this 86 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,720 Speaker 6: isn't changing, and especially when my dad showed up. 87 00:05:28,160 --> 00:05:31,800 Speaker 1: But when Keith came, it was a huge disappointment for Melissa. 88 00:05:32,240 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: She suddenly realized he wasn't this superhero or this mythological 89 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:38,880 Speaker 1: figure she'd always romanticized him, as. 90 00:05:40,200 --> 00:05:42,240 Speaker 6: He had a trailer of all our belongings, and it 91 00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:45,000 Speaker 6: was like halfway through, like he didn't even having care. 92 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,039 Speaker 6: When he showed up, it was a disaster. It was 93 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,960 Speaker 6: just like tossed in there, like it was trash, our belongings. 94 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 6: I actually didn't even recognize it as my own bedroom 95 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 6: furniture because it was so broken down and so ruined 96 00:05:57,040 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 6: by the transport. 97 00:05:59,000 --> 00:06:02,960 Speaker 1: Rose remembers this well, and it's even worse from her perspective, 98 00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:08,600 Speaker 1: while Melissa focuses on her bed and her possessions. Rose's 99 00:06:08,640 --> 00:06:12,080 Speaker 1: sadness comes from losing something irreplaceable. 100 00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:16,120 Speaker 3: When we had left, he had given everything away from 101 00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 3: our house, like I wanted to keep, like you guys's 102 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,279 Speaker 3: baby pictures and her She had a cute little gown 103 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,599 Speaker 3: at Little Rose Buzzle that your grandma had bought for you, 104 00:06:28,320 --> 00:06:30,400 Speaker 3: and in a quilt that was made for you. 105 00:06:30,560 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 2: And he chucked that all up, gave it away. 106 00:06:43,320 --> 00:06:48,360 Speaker 7: Phil Stanford The Oregonian, May twenty sixth, nineteen ninety four. 107 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:53,920 Speaker 7: One day about November ninety two, he says he picked 108 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:58,279 Speaker 7: up a girl named Claudia in California on the way 109 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,919 Speaker 7: out of la My mind went with the thought of 110 00:07:00,960 --> 00:07:03,919 Speaker 7: a sex slave, and when I stopped at a rest area, 111 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:07,040 Speaker 7: I took her. I taped her up and raped her 112 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:11,160 Speaker 7: again and again. I kept her for four days alive. 113 00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:15,480 Speaker 7: Then I killed her and dumped her body about seven 114 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:17,480 Speaker 7: miles north of blyth On ninety five. 115 00:07:25,080 --> 00:07:28,480 Speaker 6: I was still happy to see him because I thought 116 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 6: that every time my dad came, I could persuade him 117 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:34,040 Speaker 6: to get back together with my mom, and like everything 118 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:38,680 Speaker 6: would go back to normal and I could have my 119 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,800 Speaker 6: life back. I thought, if I could just manipulate and 120 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 6: convince my father, I would try every tactic possible. And 121 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:47,680 Speaker 6: maybe you know other kids when they go through a divorce, 122 00:07:47,760 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 6: go through the same thing. That's what I did with 123 00:07:50,400 --> 00:07:52,560 Speaker 6: my dad. I wanted him back. I wanted him to 124 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:54,400 Speaker 6: fix the situation, you know. 125 00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:55,720 Speaker 5: But she registered that. 126 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:00,760 Speaker 8: Like he wasn't treating your things with respect, that there 127 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:02,720 Speaker 8: was sort of a coldness there. 128 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:03,520 Speaker 5: You registered that. 129 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 6: I registered that, but I thought it was because of 130 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 6: his anger situation. 131 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:09,680 Speaker 5: I didn't take it personal. I thought it was. 132 00:08:09,640 --> 00:08:10,560 Speaker 2: Would you blame your mom? 133 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,280 Speaker 6: Yeah? Yeah, I blamed my mom. That's what I regret 134 00:08:15,480 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 6: is I blamed her. 135 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:18,560 Speaker 5: She shouldn't deserve that at all. 136 00:08:31,640 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 2: How did you meet him again? How did you guys 137 00:08:33,480 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 2: start dating? 138 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 5: Oh? 139 00:08:34,800 --> 00:08:37,319 Speaker 9: I know the sorry You were working at a burger 140 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:42,040 Speaker 9: place and you were doing the takeout window and then 141 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:45,880 Speaker 9: my dad drove through the takeout and then you didn't 142 00:08:45,920 --> 00:08:47,319 Speaker 9: put the meat in his hack. 143 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:53,079 Speaker 4: On the grill on the left, and then he circled 144 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 4: back because he didn't have meat in his hamburgers. 145 00:08:56,679 --> 00:09:01,600 Speaker 2: Two buns, right, yeah, he goes up. I did order 146 00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,240 Speaker 2: a hamberger, there. 147 00:09:03,280 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 5: Was no meat in it. 148 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:05,720 Speaker 2: I go, oh, okay. 149 00:09:05,720 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 5: He still sitting on the grill. 150 00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,559 Speaker 2: So he asked me out and I said no. 151 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:20,439 Speaker 3: Every time he come in he'd ask me, and Macfin goes, 152 00:09:20,480 --> 00:09:21,839 Speaker 3: I'll just go out with him once. 153 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,160 Speaker 2: Why didn't you want to do him? 154 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:26,960 Speaker 3: I was not really attractive to him, you know, the 155 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:29,400 Speaker 3: whole thing. I don't even know I even married him. 156 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:30,200 Speaker 5: To be honest with. 157 00:09:30,440 --> 00:09:37,320 Speaker 1: You, seemingly inappropriate laughter seems to be a trait of 158 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: the Jesperson women. It's almost gallows humored. 159 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,559 Speaker 2: Years later, I was like, what did you even see 160 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:46,960 Speaker 2: in this guy that you married him? 161 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,360 Speaker 3: I guess I just I road it for the underdog, 162 00:09:49,440 --> 00:09:50,640 Speaker 3: so long I married it. 163 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:51,760 Speaker 5: I don't know. 164 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 2: He wasn't exactly a faithful husband, oh, absolutely not from 165 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:10,960 Speaker 2: day one. From day one, actually literally day one. Yeah, 166 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 2: tell me about your wedding day. 167 00:10:14,760 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 3: Got ready for the wedding, we got married, and they 168 00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 3: were doing pictures of me and I guess he was 169 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:26,920 Speaker 3: outside kissing the bridesmaids my best friend, Pam, Pam, how can. 170 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,960 Speaker 2: You find out about that? She told me? Maybe years later? 171 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:31,880 Speaker 2: She goes, I felt so bad. I wanted to tell you, 172 00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:34,360 Speaker 2: but Dad didn't tell you. 173 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:40,200 Speaker 4: Oh when when you were married and we were living 174 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,080 Speaker 4: in Yakima, did you ever since say he was unfaithful? 175 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,880 Speaker 2: I knew it. I knew it. I was getting phone 176 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,840 Speaker 2: calls every day. Hi, is Keith here? 177 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,440 Speaker 3: I said, no, who is this? She goes, oh, I 178 00:10:52,480 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 3: can't remember what her name was, And she goes, oh, 179 00:10:56,120 --> 00:10:58,480 Speaker 3: would you tell Keith that I called? 180 00:10:58,880 --> 00:11:03,280 Speaker 2: She goes, oh, who are you his wife? Oh? And 181 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:06,480 Speaker 2: then she'd hung up. So they were phoning the house. 182 00:11:06,520 --> 00:11:08,959 Speaker 2: They were phoning the house. Did you ever confront Dad 183 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:10,360 Speaker 2: on these women calling? 184 00:11:11,400 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 5: I did. 185 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:17,720 Speaker 3: He would say things like, if you only knew, like 186 00:11:17,760 --> 00:11:19,680 Speaker 3: we'd be driving down the road, because if you only knew, 187 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:20,960 Speaker 3: And I go, if I only knew? 188 00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,920 Speaker 2: What? Because if only you knew. 189 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 7: After the second murder, the happy Face killer says he 190 00:11:33,640 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 7: realized he liked what he was doing. This triggered something 191 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:42,360 Speaker 7: in me. He says, it was getting easy, real easy. 192 00:11:44,000 --> 00:11:46,800 Speaker 7: A week or two later, I stopped in Turlock, California, 193 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:50,640 Speaker 7: at a rest area a hooker became my next victim. 194 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 7: This time I just strangled her right there without sucks. 195 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 7: She was in my truck only five minutes. I dropped 196 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,439 Speaker 7: her body off behind the Blueberry Hill Cafe a ten 197 00:12:00,480 --> 00:12:04,560 Speaker 7: miles south on ninety nine. I placed her body in 198 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 7: the dirt and stepped on her throat to make sure 199 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:09,160 Speaker 7: she was dead. 200 00:12:28,240 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 6: I just couldn't understand why we kind of get together, 201 00:12:31,240 --> 00:12:35,240 Speaker 6: Like I couldn't understand because our car came from my dad. 202 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,760 Speaker 6: When we needed anything, my mom would ask my dad, 203 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 6: and my dad would buy us a new car, or 204 00:12:39,920 --> 00:12:41,760 Speaker 6: my dad would provide the things that we needed. 205 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 5: So it felt like we just weren't competent on our. 206 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 6: Own without him, Like somehow he was competent and knew 207 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:54,840 Speaker 6: how to make things happen, and he got money so 208 00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,679 Speaker 6: fast and so effortlessly. 209 00:12:57,800 --> 00:13:00,280 Speaker 5: It looked like, you know, but our dad. 210 00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:05,680 Speaker 1: Was that now looking back, you know, as a mom 211 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,239 Speaker 1: now looking at he'd. 212 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:11,280 Speaker 6: Have to pay anything, like all his resources, his full 213 00:13:11,280 --> 00:13:13,320 Speaker 6: time job, didn't go to supporting a family and went 214 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 6: to himself and his lifestyle. 215 00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:23,960 Speaker 1: Did you at one point try to go on the 216 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:24,600 Speaker 1: road with him. 217 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:29,200 Speaker 3: There's some story he told, Yeah, so so you guys, 218 00:13:29,240 --> 00:13:30,440 Speaker 3: stay with your grandparents. 219 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,360 Speaker 2: We go to Arizona. 220 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:36,959 Speaker 3: So we're in near Aza, semi truck in a semi truck. 221 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 3: It was a blazing hot day, so we were gonna 222 00:13:39,920 --> 00:13:41,080 Speaker 3: stop at a restaurant and neat. 223 00:13:41,679 --> 00:13:47,000 Speaker 2: So he parks the vehicle. We walk and there was. 224 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 3: I call him Pimps, but they had a huge black 225 00:13:51,120 --> 00:13:56,400 Speaker 3: lemmo and they were washing it. He physically picked me 226 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 3: up and put me in the arms of that man. 227 00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 2: He said, you can have her and walked away. And 228 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,439 Speaker 2: that was the end of our marriage. That was it. 229 00:14:05,679 --> 00:14:06,440 Speaker 2: That's when I left. 230 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:09,880 Speaker 3: I don't I don't even know why. I got back 231 00:14:09,920 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 3: in the truck with him and went back home. 232 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: Mentally for you, at that moment, that was it. I 233 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 2: was totally done. So basically told. 234 00:14:18,440 --> 00:14:21,000 Speaker 3: Pemps that you can have my wife pick me up, 235 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 3: physically pick me up and put me in the arms 236 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,560 Speaker 3: of a guy like what like? 237 00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,680 Speaker 2: I couldn't think. I was in so much shock, I 238 00:14:30,720 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 2: couldn't figure out. 239 00:14:33,840 --> 00:14:36,160 Speaker 3: We never talked, by the way the whole way back, 240 00:14:36,920 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 3: never said a word to each. 241 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 5: Other, smelled too this world was fall Your nas been clean, 242 00:14:57,480 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 5: our s dream. 243 00:14:58,880 --> 00:14:59,840 Speaker 6: Of fire. 244 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:06,960 Speaker 5: Un released, spent. 245 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:09,920 Speaker 3: Oh you. 246 00:15:12,640 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 2: Brid how did he feel about being a dad? 247 00:15:19,920 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 3: Well, he said he really was happy, and I mean 248 00:15:23,520 --> 00:15:26,120 Speaker 3: he held you and stuff, but he was never home. 249 00:15:27,640 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 2: So what he said when he did was two different things. Yeah, 250 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 2: that makes sense. 251 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:32,600 Speaker 5: It's always been the case. 252 00:15:33,080 --> 00:15:35,440 Speaker 3: I think I spent the first year it was like, 253 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:36,800 Speaker 3: I don't know how to explain it. 254 00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:39,640 Speaker 2: The first year she was born, I was like, there 255 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 2: was some dark force that was trying to kill us. 256 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 2: I don't know how to explain it to you. I 257 00:15:45,320 --> 00:15:49,480 Speaker 2: went the first year with Melissa, had went through two fires. 258 00:15:50,520 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 2: Didn't I save the family by waking up? Yeah? Like 259 00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:54,480 Speaker 2: I was. 260 00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:58,640 Speaker 3: I was sleeping and she was playing in her crib. 261 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:00,200 Speaker 2: I go, what the heck? 262 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:02,400 Speaker 3: And I looked over, Oh, she's playing in a crib. 263 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:05,720 Speaker 3: I heard her audible voice tell me Rose, it's three 264 00:16:05,720 --> 00:16:07,920 Speaker 3: o'clock in the morning. Why can't you see your child 265 00:16:08,080 --> 00:16:12,200 Speaker 3: playing in the crib? I shot straight up. The whole 266 00:16:12,240 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 3: bathroom was on fire. I grabbed her, ran out, I 267 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 3: nudged Keith, ran out the door with her, and. 268 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,400 Speaker 9: The whole mobile home belt burned down And it didn't 269 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:25,120 Speaker 9: burn down. 270 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:27,280 Speaker 2: But it caught the whole roof on fire, wasn't it 271 00:16:27,360 --> 00:16:27,920 Speaker 2: the vent? 272 00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:33,320 Speaker 3: Keith taped the vent. It got so hot that the 273 00:16:33,360 --> 00:16:37,680 Speaker 3: fan the melt. It melt, plastic melted, and I had 274 00:16:37,840 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 3: a little toilet cover, a shag covered, and it caught 275 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,200 Speaker 3: it on fire. And the whole bathroom was in golf 276 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 3: before the smoke detectors went off. I was already out 277 00:16:47,320 --> 00:16:48,960 Speaker 3: the door before the smoke dectors went off. 278 00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:03,880 Speaker 1: When did you remember having the first feeling like, oh 279 00:17:03,920 --> 00:17:06,960 Speaker 1: my god, I made a mistake in terms of marrying him. 280 00:17:07,359 --> 00:17:12,199 Speaker 3: I think when I went through the second fire. It 281 00:17:12,320 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 3: was like three months after that. Your dad had a 282 00:17:17,119 --> 00:17:22,199 Speaker 3: contract with tobacco to do irrigation pipes for a huge 283 00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 3: orchard up in Winneanchi. 284 00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:27,920 Speaker 2: So we borrowed. 285 00:17:27,560 --> 00:17:31,520 Speaker 3: Your grandparents' brand new travel trailer and we parked it 286 00:17:31,920 --> 00:17:35,840 Speaker 3: under the hill and there was just dry grass all 287 00:17:35,880 --> 00:17:38,359 Speaker 3: the way up the hill, and then there was a 288 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:43,760 Speaker 3: beach and then a lake, and I remember looking up 289 00:17:43,960 --> 00:17:47,240 Speaker 3: and the hill was on fire and it was all 290 00:17:47,359 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 3: dry grass between me and that trailer. 291 00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:54,840 Speaker 2: It was tall, dry grass. Do you know that he 292 00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 2: was an arsonist? He set fires? He didn't think of that. 293 00:17:59,760 --> 00:18:01,600 Speaker 2: He did it through childhood. 294 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 4: Do you think he set the trailer off? 295 00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:09,840 Speaker 2: But that's after that that's kind of coincidence to fire. 296 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,920 Speaker 4: Exactly do you think guys having second thoughts of being 297 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:15,720 Speaker 4: a dad who was trying to kill kill us? 298 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 3: I have no idea, but I think about it, like 299 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,800 Speaker 3: I told you, a dark force was trying to get 300 00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:23,400 Speaker 3: rid of us. 301 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:31,879 Speaker 2: So Dad was gone. You didn't see him. And there 302 00:18:32,080 --> 00:18:34,840 Speaker 2: this fire happens on the hill and it's coming straight 303 00:18:34,920 --> 00:18:38,000 Speaker 2: down for us. And then what do you do? 304 00:18:38,040 --> 00:18:41,240 Speaker 3: You have me in the lake, and I grabbed the 305 00:18:41,280 --> 00:18:46,640 Speaker 3: hose from behind the camper and saturated the grass as 306 00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:47,160 Speaker 3: much as I. 307 00:18:47,080 --> 00:18:50,520 Speaker 2: Could with the water from the hose. I mean, it 308 00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 2: was gonna be our life. 309 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:54,959 Speaker 3: So and I had a visual point that if the 310 00:18:55,040 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 3: fire broke past that line, I was gonna just leave 311 00:18:59,080 --> 00:19:00,040 Speaker 3: the hose there and as. 312 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:02,160 Speaker 2: I run the lake and I was gonna go deeper 313 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:04,720 Speaker 2: with you in it. And then did it ever reach 314 00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:06,800 Speaker 2: that point? They did not. I saw the fire truck 315 00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 2: come down, WoT it out. When did Keith come back, Oh, 316 00:19:11,720 --> 00:19:15,679 Speaker 2: maybe fifteen minutes after that? How did he know? I 317 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 2: have no idea. 318 00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 1: It was an incredible moment just watching them come together. 319 00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,360 Speaker 1: It was as if they were putting together the pieces 320 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,240 Speaker 1: of a puzzle that they'd been trying to solve for years. 321 00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:53,360 Speaker 2: Then you said that was the moment when you regretted 322 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,560 Speaker 2: marrying him. Why because it was. 323 00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 3: This is the second fire, like within three and I 324 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 3: felt like this dark, oppressive force was after me, and 325 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 3: I felt that that force was your dad. 326 00:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 2: Then shortly after that, like a month. 327 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:24,280 Speaker 3: After, we go camping to you and I and we're 328 00:20:24,320 --> 00:20:27,840 Speaker 3: at a church camp and so he decides to sleep 329 00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:30,720 Speaker 3: in the car, but you and I sleep in the cabin. 330 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,720 Speaker 2: And then I heard a. 331 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,680 Speaker 3: Bear and it's going around and around our cabin, and 332 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,639 Speaker 3: I was like, oh my god. I mean I wanted 333 00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:43,000 Speaker 3: to grab you put it in my bed, but I 334 00:20:43,000 --> 00:20:46,320 Speaker 3: didn't dare stir you. And then the bear stood up 335 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:49,600 Speaker 3: on the door and was pushing on the door and 336 00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:53,840 Speaker 3: there was only a leather latch between that bear and us, 337 00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 3: and so I laid there and I said, oh God, 338 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 3: please don't let Melissa make one sound. Please don't make 339 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:05,080 Speaker 3: your one sound. And then I heard another bear going 340 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:06,360 Speaker 3: around and around. 341 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 2: That's not an accident. 342 00:21:08,160 --> 00:21:09,639 Speaker 4: He must have planted fish. 343 00:21:09,960 --> 00:21:11,720 Speaker 5: He did. He did. 344 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,280 Speaker 2: He cleaned fish in front of the cabin. 345 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,800 Speaker 3: You can see paws all over the place. And he 346 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:23,160 Speaker 3: was sleeping in the car, and this bear was pushing 347 00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:26,959 Speaker 3: on this door and was pushing on this door, and 348 00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,120 Speaker 3: I just thought, oh my god, if that latch on hooks, 349 00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 3: we're dinner. 350 00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:38,640 Speaker 2: I know that dad knows not to clean fish. It's 351 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 2: one on one. It's one on one. 352 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 4: You don't prepare your food in your camp base, right, 353 00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:45,119 Speaker 4: or clean fish. 354 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,199 Speaker 2: You're supposed to even put your trash up a tree. Yeah, 355 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 2: he knew, he knew that. 356 00:21:49,520 --> 00:21:53,080 Speaker 3: I mean, he packed horses with his dad. They've they've 357 00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:55,919 Speaker 3: been camping since they were little. They know the bush 358 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 3: better than anything. 359 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,199 Speaker 4: It's apparent to me three incidents, he's conveniently in a 360 00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:03,000 Speaker 4: different location. 361 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,639 Speaker 2: This is definitely him trying to make it look like 362 00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 2: an accident. 363 00:22:08,160 --> 00:22:12,199 Speaker 3: I think after that point that I really believe you 364 00:22:12,240 --> 00:22:16,359 Speaker 3: and I were protected, really spiritually protected you. And I 365 00:22:17,200 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 3: felt that from the very beginning with all the kids. 366 00:22:25,200 --> 00:22:27,879 Speaker 7: The happy face killer, if that's how he wants us 367 00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:30,919 Speaker 7: to think of him, says he left his next victim 368 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:35,199 Speaker 7: in Salem Moregan. My next victim was a hooker I 369 00:22:35,200 --> 00:22:38,680 Speaker 7: had used weeks earlier. I summoned her on the CB. 370 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:43,320 Speaker 7: She had a raincoat on. We went through the normal procedure. 371 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:47,240 Speaker 7: I felt so much power. I then told her she 372 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:50,760 Speaker 7: was going to die and slowly strangled her and dropped 373 00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:54,120 Speaker 7: her off behind g I, Joe's and Salem. I put 374 00:22:54,119 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 7: her against the fence under the BlackBerry vines and covered 375 00:22:57,680 --> 00:22:58,480 Speaker 7: her with leaves. 376 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:03,280 Speaker 5: Do you believe her. 377 00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,000 Speaker 8: When she says, your dad never abused her? 378 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:10,840 Speaker 6: I do, and I believe in the physical sense because 379 00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 6: he didn't physically abuse her. Was he abusive man, Yes, 380 00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:14,720 Speaker 6: in a different way. 381 00:23:15,400 --> 00:23:16,240 Speaker 5: He was abusive. 382 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:22,320 Speaker 6: Emotionally he was abusive, like controlling the money and controlling her. 383 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 8: How did it make you feel hearing kind of putting 384 00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 8: the pieces together about those stories your mom told you 385 00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 8: about the fires because you obviously knew about it. 386 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 6: You knew about the fires. 387 00:23:32,040 --> 00:23:33,119 Speaker 5: He knew about one fire. 388 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:35,760 Speaker 6: I did not know about the bears or about the 389 00:23:35,800 --> 00:23:39,520 Speaker 6: other fire. I didn't put the pieces together like this 390 00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:43,240 Speaker 6: is like I've had these fragments, these little stories of 391 00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 6: just paint a picture of one particular thing. Now I 392 00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:49,800 Speaker 6: feel like the pieces are coming together. 393 00:23:49,520 --> 00:23:50,840 Speaker 5: And painting a bigger picture. 394 00:23:57,800 --> 00:24:01,159 Speaker 6: I had assumed when he had thoughts of killing us 395 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:05,040 Speaker 6: kids that it was towards the latter years. Never would 396 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,679 Speaker 6: I have ever thought that it happened as I was 397 00:24:07,720 --> 00:24:09,040 Speaker 6: a toddler. 398 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 5: You know, I didn't go that far back. 399 00:24:13,480 --> 00:24:15,800 Speaker 1: When you look at Keith's history as a serial killer, 400 00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: you have to understand that his murders that we know 401 00:24:18,960 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 1: of took place in a five year period. He started 402 00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:25,080 Speaker 1: killing in nineteen ninety when Melissa was ten, and he 403 00:24:25,160 --> 00:24:28,680 Speaker 1: stopped in ninety five when she was fifteen, And that 404 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,919 Speaker 1: history she shared with her father before he became a 405 00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,000 Speaker 1: serial killer is something that's very difficult for her to process. 406 00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 6: You know, I guess I had put somewhat my dad 407 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:43,720 Speaker 6: in a box too, like he was the monster for 408 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 6: five years. Now I'm seeing he was the monster for 409 00:24:48,720 --> 00:24:51,960 Speaker 6: many years, decades, Like this is not all life. 410 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:54,919 Speaker 5: Yeah, the five years is not an isolated event. It 411 00:24:54,960 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 5: was an escalation. 412 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,520 Speaker 2: Were you ever afraid of him? Was I afraid of 413 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:09,680 Speaker 2: your dad? No? 414 00:25:11,840 --> 00:25:15,040 Speaker 3: Was I afraid of the person that picked me up 415 00:25:15,080 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 3: and put me in the arms like another guy? 416 00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:18,919 Speaker 2: Absolutely? I was afraid of that. 417 00:25:20,640 --> 00:25:23,680 Speaker 1: Do you think he was born that way? 418 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:27,520 Speaker 2: I think he was groomed to be who he is. 419 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:30,840 Speaker 2: From less. 420 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 10: So you last out, It's been long long, Thanks the 421 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:53,439 Speaker 10: best of. 422 00:25:55,880 --> 00:26:02,399 Speaker 5: You stayed since The dream Lafer. 423 00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 8: Happy Face is a production of how stuff works Executive 424 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 8: producers are Melissa Moore, Lauren Bright, Pacheco, mangesh A Tikedur 425 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 8: and Will Pearson. Supervising producer is Noel Brown. Music by 426 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 8: Claire Campbell, Paige Campbell and Hope for a Golden Summer. 427 00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,920 Speaker 8: Story editor is Matt Riddle, Audio editing by Chandler Mays 428 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,640 Speaker 8: and Noel Brown. Assistant editor is Taylor Chaicoigne. Special thanks 429 00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:30,919 Speaker 8: to Phil Stanford, the publishers of the Oregonian Newspaper and 430 00:26:31,040 --> 00:26:32,919 Speaker 8: KATU News in Portland, Oregon.