WEBVTT - Hammertime with Casey Hammer 0:00:01.880 --> 0:00:08.360 Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart radio podcast. Okay, 0:00:10.240 --> 0:00:20.400 I don't even know, Okay, okay, Army Hammer. HM. There's 0:00:20.440 --> 0:00:22.720 a thing called the House of Hammer out right now. 0:00:23.440 --> 0:00:26.960 We have Casey Hammer, who is the aunt of Army Hammer, 0:00:27.120 --> 0:00:30.280 who did the show, wrote the book. We're going to 0:00:30.360 --> 0:00:35.280 have her on and I have I know, Kristen Catherine 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:41.960 have also we've dived into the House of Hammer uh series, 0:00:43.080 --> 0:00:48.640 and it is It's wild. I mean, I texted you 0:00:48.640 --> 0:00:50.760 at when I am and I was like, you did 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.480 this to me, Kramer, because this isn't something I gravitate towards. 0:00:56.080 --> 0:00:59.920 Can I just tell you though a story about Army Hammer, please? 0:01:00.240 --> 0:01:02.880 I hope this goes where I've prayed it goes. Speaking 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:05.959 of answered, first, let's do that, because I was like, 0:01:06.040 --> 0:01:08.679 this guy is a guy we we would swipe on, 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:14.360 you would swipe on him. We're gonna get to the 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:17.880 We're gonna get tall of it. But okay, this is juicy. 0:01:18.160 --> 0:01:20.959 Well it's not really, it's not really juicy, but it's 0:01:21.000 --> 0:01:26.840 so Army and I did a movie together, like, I mean, hey, 0:01:26.959 --> 0:01:29.000 back in the day, I mean way back in the day. Actually, 0:01:29.040 --> 0:01:31.640 let me just pull it up right now, because I'm 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:33.800 gonna am. I honestly saw him and I was like, 0:01:33.840 --> 0:01:36.280 this is an available bachelor, Like I thought, this is 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:41.720 someone you would think is attractive me. Yeah, America, tell 0:01:41.760 --> 0:01:43.280 me you've done too many movies. Without telling me you've 0:01:43.319 --> 0:01:46.760 done too many movies. No, No, I'm trying. No, Hong, 0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:48.640 It's like, well, let me just go to the movie. 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:54.160 So it was called spring Breakdown and everyone a movie 0:01:55.160 --> 0:01:59.400 with Amy Poehler. I'm sorry, have we met and Kristin 0:01:59.520 --> 0:02:05.920 Cavalier uh sacer posing here which we had a conversation 0:02:05.920 --> 0:02:07.960 in which we can talk about that in our time, 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:11.160 you and Kristen. Ok, let's just let's just stay on. 0:02:11.240 --> 0:02:16.080 But it's a very We're going to get a drink. Um. Okay. 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:22.440 So Armie Hammer was Abercrombie boy in Spring Breakdown. Now 0:02:22.440 --> 0:02:27.000 I had like a real talking part in this. Um 0:02:27.240 --> 0:02:29.840 I didn't. But we're here, we're gonna break it down. 0:02:29.919 --> 0:02:31.840 This is this is just and I'm like, literally, I'm 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:34.919 I'm laughing at myself right now. I was seven, number two. 0:02:35.800 --> 0:02:38.480 I didn't even have a name either. So but we 0:02:38.480 --> 0:02:40.919 were like, but you talked and he was on a 0:02:40.960 --> 0:02:46.840 bag or what I'm and so all I remember is 0:02:46.880 --> 0:02:49.280 this but we we still had like it was like 0:02:49.360 --> 0:02:52.040 so like Kristen was Kristen was seven number three. I 0:02:52.080 --> 0:02:55.680 was seven number two, and then um Sophie Monk was 0:02:55.760 --> 0:02:58.560 like we were her like little groupies. So like I 0:02:58.560 --> 0:03:00.280 would be like like one of my life just like 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:02.680 I can't even read, like you know, Like it was 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.200 just like I was one of those girls and the 0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:08.960 award goes to ye. So but like Army was on 0:03:09.000 --> 0:03:15.480 the show and he like, yeah, there, I am right 0:03:15.520 --> 0:03:19.600 there and there wow. So Army like tried to hit 0:03:19.639 --> 0:03:22.360 on me, and I was like in my mind, I 0:03:22.400 --> 0:03:25.160 was like he's, you know, like ever cramby boy and 0:03:25.160 --> 0:03:27.440 he's ever crampy boy like you know, and I was 0:03:27.480 --> 0:03:30.519 just like not there with it. So then my friend 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:34.000 Caitlin Crosby was like this is like a couple of 0:03:34.040 --> 0:03:38.160 years later, she's like Army. It was just like she's 0:03:38.160 --> 0:03:40.280 the most beautiful woman I ever saw, Like, oh my god, 0:03:40.280 --> 0:03:42.400 I had the biggest crush on her, Like I tried 0:03:42.440 --> 0:03:46.120 to ask her out and so I was like, well 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:53.680 like oh no, oh no no, because honestly, as I 0:03:53.720 --> 0:03:56.000 was watching it, I was thinking, and I'm not joking 0:03:56.160 --> 0:03:58.160 a I was like this is someone you would be 0:03:58.160 --> 0:04:02.280 attracted to and A. And then also I thought he 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.839 would be so attracted to you because the women on here, 0:04:04.920 --> 0:04:08.040 I mean, the women he's attracted to our stunning. Well 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:10.440 you're very sweet. But I was like, grammar would fit 0:04:10.480 --> 0:04:12.720 in this quite well. Well, so I was like, well, yeah, 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:16.360 I'm like like, okay, hook it up right. Well he 0:04:16.400 --> 0:04:19.680 had just started dating his wife or whatever, so I 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.720 was just like, Okay, he's dating someone. But I was 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:29.159 always like, damn it, the one that got away. Okay, 0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:31.839 so let me you're the one that got away. But 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:33.920 here's where I want to break it down. Okay, so 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:36.880 and I will say too. So I watched the documentary 0:04:37.000 --> 0:04:39.560 and I actually ended up speaking. I'm not going to 0:04:39.680 --> 0:04:41.880 name her name. She was one of the girls on 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:43.640 the documentary, and I reached out to her. I d 0:04:43.800 --> 0:04:48.120 m her and I said to her because there was 0:04:48.240 --> 0:04:53.040 I know that she's gotten some hate and because he 0:04:53.080 --> 0:04:56.279 was technically married at the time, But I'm like, what 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.680 these men tell these women that they pray on. Like again, 0:04:59.720 --> 0:05:03.280 I am remember calling one of the multiple affair girls 0:05:03.360 --> 0:05:05.440 and they're like, wait, your husband was married, and I'm 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:09.000 like yeah, and I've got a kid so like these 0:05:09.040 --> 0:05:12.680 girls don't know Like when she's like he called me 0:05:13.000 --> 0:05:15.000 in the thing, She's like he called me all the time. 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:17.520 He was texting all the time. Like it's like and 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:19.800 I want you to know that, Like I get it. 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.120 And like also like I understand like the being like 0:05:22.320 --> 0:05:25.440 prayed and like the you know, he's army hammer and 0:05:25.440 --> 0:05:28.440 you're like wanting to be you know, this is like 0:05:28.520 --> 0:05:31.479 wild and you're in this world and like you're you're 0:05:31.520 --> 0:05:35.359 like I could tell that her testimony was very authentic, 0:05:35.520 --> 0:05:37.719 and I just wanted to like for as many probably 0:05:37.720 --> 0:05:39.520 hateful things as she was, Like I wanted to just 0:05:39.560 --> 0:05:42.320 be like someone that's just like hey, I I like 0:05:42.720 --> 0:05:44.560 I saw you, I heard you, and like you know, 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:47.800 get off the blocks, you know what I mean, don't read, 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:52.679 don't read. But like the like he wanted to cook 0:05:52.760 --> 0:05:56.080 these one girl's ribs, Like he wanted to take out 0:05:56.160 --> 0:05:59.800 these girls ribs and cook them. Like it goes me 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:04.840 on like fantasy stuff, right, like it goes like past 0:06:04.960 --> 0:06:08.640 like this, I don't even know the BDS, Like I 0:06:08.720 --> 0:06:12.200 was b it's b D S M sex. But like 0:06:12.200 --> 0:06:14.200 what that girl was even saying, you know, they had 0:06:14.200 --> 0:06:16.080 like the psychiatrist on there like, yeah, that that goes 0:06:16.160 --> 0:06:19.800 like even beyond like what this is, Like they had 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:23.240 an expert come on, and she was like that's a 0:06:23.279 --> 0:06:26.279 consensual thing, Like that's something both people are agreeing to. 0:06:27.200 --> 0:06:31.599 She was like, this is a person abusing essentially under 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:35.479 this like disguise of it being B D S M right. 0:06:35.920 --> 0:06:38.400 And I had this I'm not going to obviously name 0:06:38.440 --> 0:06:40.320 his name, but when I was I had this guy 0:06:40.360 --> 0:06:42.880 that I dated that was like way older than me 0:06:42.920 --> 0:06:47.120 and I was younger. And it's scary when you know, 0:06:47.160 --> 0:06:49.560 when when the younger girls and the older guys, because 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.159 a lot of these girls were super young. Like I 0:06:51.200 --> 0:06:53.480 remember this dude that I was with, he was like, 0:06:54.360 --> 0:06:56.320 this is my fantasy in my mind. I'm like, well, 0:06:56.360 --> 0:06:58.200 I don't want this to be the fantasy, Like I 0:06:58.240 --> 0:07:01.000 don't want to do this, you know what. I want 0:07:01.000 --> 0:07:05.120 to please this person, you know, because he loves me 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.120 and I love them, and like but then I remember 0:07:08.120 --> 0:07:11.400 one day we had showed up at one of his 0:07:11.560 --> 0:07:15.080 fantasies and I was like, oh my god, like this 0:07:15.160 --> 0:07:17.920 isn't actually what. I just played along with it, thinking 0:07:18.000 --> 0:07:20.280 like it wasn't going to actually happen. You didn't actually 0:07:20.280 --> 0:07:22.120 want to eat my ribs is what I thought, right, 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:24.600 And I'm like, so I'm at this like I'm not 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:26.360 gonna I'm not gonna go into like told detail, but 0:07:26.400 --> 0:07:28.840 I just started crying and he got so angry with me, 0:07:28.840 --> 0:07:30.360 and I'm like, but I didn't think this was like 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:32.560 a real and these like girls, it's like I'm like 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:34.240 watching them, like, oh my god, it's like they're just 0:07:34.760 --> 0:07:37.000 you know, they're again they're playing along with this like 0:07:37.080 --> 0:07:39.080 fantasy and like, yeah, okay, it's kind of like cute 0:07:39.120 --> 0:07:41.600 and kinky whatever, but then he just takes it to 0:07:41.680 --> 0:07:46.960 like this, it was abusive, so abusive, and then also 0:07:47.080 --> 0:07:49.880 like that's which is so scary because I'm like, but 0:07:50.000 --> 0:07:52.960 like that kind of like like that one with that one, 0:07:53.600 --> 0:07:55.480 like I want to eat you and she's like, you know, 0:07:55.560 --> 0:07:58.680 she's like at first it's like okay, that's kind of 0:07:59.000 --> 0:08:01.520 kind of cute, but then not knowing like I I 0:08:01.600 --> 0:08:03.280 want to bite you. It was like I wanna want 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:07.440 to bite you. I'm gonna and like, you know, I 0:08:07.440 --> 0:08:09.400 don't know how kinky people get. But then when you 0:08:09.480 --> 0:08:12.400 keep going, it's like but the slate I mean now nowadays, 0:08:12.480 --> 0:08:14.400 but in my twenties, I would have been like, okay, 0:08:14.400 --> 0:08:17.200 like I don't know. Well, I also just think it's 0:08:17.200 --> 0:08:19.400 such a slow chip away. I think people are very 0:08:19.440 --> 0:08:22.560 easy to judge. Yes, women, but like that. It's not 0:08:22.640 --> 0:08:24.320 like this guy slid into the d m S and 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:26.480 was like, Hey, I want to eat your face off 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.320 or hey I want to take your ribs out, or 0:08:29.480 --> 0:08:31.800 I want to smash you to the ground. Like it's 0:08:31.800 --> 0:08:37.040 a very sneaky slow and listen, you're in it at 0:08:37.080 --> 0:08:39.600 that point. So then when you go thirty thousand feet 0:08:39.600 --> 0:08:41.319 it starts to you start to go like how did 0:08:41.360 --> 0:08:43.120 I even do that? Or how did I entertain that? 0:08:43.200 --> 0:08:44.840 Or how did we even get here? But you're already 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:46.360 there at this point where he was like you know 0:08:46.760 --> 0:08:49.320 so love bombing love bombing love bombing that you're like, 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.120 it's hard to get out of that situation, right, and 0:08:52.160 --> 0:08:54.720 you actually don't even know you're in it. So I think, well, 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:56.840 I think that's like because I'm like, I remember like 0:08:57.120 --> 0:08:59.559 this one dude that wanted to have this like fantasy 0:08:59.600 --> 0:09:01.920 that I'm my mind. I'm like I don't want those, 0:09:01.960 --> 0:09:03.720 but like I'm gonna go for because it's just a fantasy. 0:09:03.720 --> 0:09:06.120 It's not gonna actually happen. But then when it does happen, 0:09:06.200 --> 0:09:07.679 you're like, oh my god, this is not what I 0:09:07.720 --> 0:09:12.880 actually wanted, like a board, because you're like, ropes aren't hot. Yeah, 0:09:13.520 --> 0:09:15.840 but even if it was a healthy relationship and you 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.360 went along with it and then you were like, wait 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.200 a minute, this isn't what I want, that person then 0:09:21.200 --> 0:09:24.440 should go oh my gosh, okay, so sorry you're not 0:09:24.480 --> 0:09:29.000 comfortable with that, let's back off. That's where this connection 0:09:29.080 --> 0:09:32.959 is missing. So that's where it's like the fantasy versus reality. 0:09:32.960 --> 0:09:34.720 And it sounds like, you know, with him, like his 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:39.559 fantasy has turned into this like dark seated reality. And honestly, 0:09:39.559 --> 0:09:42.959 when I was watching it, like it's so sad to see, 0:09:42.960 --> 0:09:49.040 like someone who's that um charismatic. Well, no, it's sick, 0:09:50.600 --> 0:09:53.600 you know, Like it's like it's really like it's it 0:09:53.720 --> 0:09:56.360 was sad to see because I'm like man like, but again, 0:09:56.360 --> 0:09:58.640 and I don't know, And this is one another person 0:09:58.720 --> 0:10:03.120 that like kind of someone that I had, I will say, uh, 0:10:03.160 --> 0:10:05.439 someone that I went on a date with was really 0:10:05.480 --> 0:10:08.560 into like fantasy playing, and like I was immediately like nope, 0:10:08.679 --> 0:10:11.439 like I like again, I can't be kinky. I can 0:10:11.480 --> 0:10:14.400 be like whatever, but when you're when there are things 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:15.720 that are not lining up and you want me to 0:10:15.720 --> 0:10:17.840 do X, Y and Z, and your fantasies ain't happening 0:10:17.880 --> 0:10:21.160 because your fantasy is. But I'm saying this because I 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:24.040 think he is similar to the Army situation, where it's 0:10:24.080 --> 0:10:26.520 like this guy could be with anyone he wants to 0:10:26.520 --> 0:10:30.240 be with at any point at any time. Army. He 0:10:30.320 --> 0:10:35.520 came from a multi multi, multimillion dollar family. I mean 0:10:35.559 --> 0:10:38.000 they were like his grandfather didn't want to be the 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.160 great grandfather didn't want to be the president because it 0:10:40.200 --> 0:10:43.320 wasn't powerful enough like he could have been. And that's 0:10:43.320 --> 0:10:44.680 like what was one of the quotes in there, And 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:47.320 it's like, so it's like, I think people that just 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:51.120 can have anything they want, they don't have the capacity, 0:10:51.200 --> 0:10:53.319 like they need more, They need more of a fix 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:55.400 they like because everything else is like, oh, just to 0:10:55.440 --> 0:10:57.960 have sex with a random girl, like how boring? Is up? 0:10:58.679 --> 0:11:00.800 Another hot girl, another hot girl, but let me let 0:11:00.840 --> 0:11:02.880 me throw in this fantasy of what I really want 0:11:02.920 --> 0:11:05.360 to do. It's because they're so numb and the need 0:11:05.400 --> 0:11:09.040 for dominance is underlying in all of those fantasies well 0:11:09.080 --> 0:11:12.160 and in the generation too, which is like wild from 0:11:12.200 --> 0:11:16.520 like the great grandfather to his dad, like and oh god, 0:11:16.600 --> 0:11:18.120 we have this aunt in the waiting room, so let's 0:11:18.120 --> 0:11:36.840 just get her on. Hi. Oh my goodness, it's so 0:11:37.040 --> 0:11:39.560 good just to see. I've I've been watching you. I 0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:41.960 mean I was knee deep in the screeners and watch 0:11:42.000 --> 0:11:44.080 all the episodes and I just and like to have 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:46.720 you here. I'm just thank you so much for joining 0:11:46.720 --> 0:11:49.400 Wine Down and and being a part of the show. 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:53.040 Oh my god, it's my pleasure. I was so honored 0:11:53.040 --> 0:11:56.120 when you wanted me to be on. I was like, yeah, okay. 0:11:57.760 --> 0:12:01.199 I first just want to, um say, you know, you 0:12:01.280 --> 0:12:05.920 shared a lot of hard truth on on you know, 0:12:05.960 --> 0:12:10.040 House of Hammer, and UM, I'm sure you're going to 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:12.360 be helping so many people too from the things that 0:12:12.440 --> 0:12:16.439 you've said, you know, just about sexual abuse that you encountered, 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.280 and you know, just all the things that you've gone 0:12:19.280 --> 0:12:20.800 through in your life. And I just just thank you 0:12:20.840 --> 0:12:23.160 for being open, vulnerable, and I just I just want 0:12:23.160 --> 0:12:25.120 to kind of affirm you for that because I can't 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:30.120 imagine how hard that was for you to do. Thanks it, Um, 0:12:30.160 --> 0:12:32.680 it continues to be hard. It's it's a struggle, it's 0:12:32.720 --> 0:12:37.040 it's one thing to UM live it because it's my normal. 0:12:37.160 --> 0:12:39.400 So it's what I experienced, so I'm used to it, right, 0:12:39.480 --> 0:12:42.640 everything I grew up. But again it's it's UM shining 0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:47.520 a light on multigenerational abuse in my family and holding 0:12:47.559 --> 0:12:51.080 them accountable. It's kind of sixty two years later, I 0:12:51.320 --> 0:12:54.320 sit here before you and it's like, all right, it's 0:12:54.400 --> 0:12:59.880 finally coming to the spotlight. And UM, it's been an 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:03.440 interesting journey because again, seven eight years ago, I self 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:07.880 published Surviving My Birthright, which was, as you probably know, 0:13:08.000 --> 0:13:10.480 it's a healing journal in a sense where you're writing 0:13:10.559 --> 0:13:13.760 and you're affirming what's happening to you, and and then 0:13:13.800 --> 0:13:16.480 when you're able to actually hold the book right, it 0:13:16.600 --> 0:13:21.560 was UM validating to know that it was real right, 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:24.160 And again I controlled the narrative, and so then I 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:26.360 was living a very quiet life down in San Diego. 0:13:26.520 --> 0:13:29.000 And last year I was a kitchen designer at the 0:13:29.000 --> 0:13:32.120 Home Depot and one of my co workers were like, Casey, 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:34.640 you better get on social media. Someone by the name 0:13:34.679 --> 0:13:37.400 of this in Blonde is blowing up your life. And 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:41.760 I just remember you, guys, I was watching it live 0:13:41.840 --> 0:13:45.840 as she Li've read my book, UM found it live 0:13:45.880 --> 0:13:48.840 read it and I was like, my life has completely changed, 0:13:48.880 --> 0:13:51.200 just like it's so out of control, like being on 0:13:51.200 --> 0:13:54.040 a roller coaster and you're doing the death drop right 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.640 and you throw your hands up, thinking hopefully I stand 0:13:56.640 --> 0:14:00.079 in the car right. And so then, um, there the 0:14:00.200 --> 0:14:04.239 moment where I think the universe says, here's a situation. 0:14:04.520 --> 0:14:06.200 How are you going to deal with it? Because at 0:14:06.240 --> 0:14:09.800 that time, to Army was all over social media and 0:14:10.360 --> 0:14:12.800 people were reaching out to me wanting a SoundBite once 0:14:12.840 --> 0:14:15.600 they found out he had an aunt, right, and so 0:14:16.240 --> 0:14:20.160 I could have taken that route and participated. And it 0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:22.400 was like, now, if people are going to talk to me, 0:14:23.120 --> 0:14:24.640 I want them to listen, and I want to be 0:14:24.680 --> 0:14:27.480 an advocate for victims and survivors. And it was kind 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:32.000 of how can I turn this into something greater in 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.400 a sense of shining a light on abuse, because it's 0:14:34.440 --> 0:14:38.520 not just physical abuse that you see. There's mental abuse. 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:43.080 There's emotional abuse, and it's so deep rooted that you 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.200 get triggered all the time and you don't know what's 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:48.800 happening and you know you're meant to be isolated and 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.600 self blame and self hatred and all those things. And 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:55.280 what I'm finding is if people say to me, I 0:14:55.320 --> 0:14:58.960 can see a part of my story in your story, 0:14:59.400 --> 0:15:02.280 because again and a lot of people will say my 0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:07.080 family wasn't as wealthy as yours or dysfunctional. But when 0:15:07.080 --> 0:15:11.840 there's a butt, it's very important to spend a moment 0:15:11.920 --> 0:15:15.200 and really listen because that's people need to be heard. 0:15:15.240 --> 0:15:19.360 And I'm hoping that this long winded version of how 0:15:19.480 --> 0:15:21.640 it all kind of happened. And that's how the producers 0:15:21.640 --> 0:15:24.560 found me. They they had read my book and said 0:15:24.600 --> 0:15:28.360 they wanted to tell my story. Um, and I really 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.480 believe they were going to take care of it. And 0:15:30.560 --> 0:15:34.000 then seeing the House of Hammer and the end result, 0:15:34.560 --> 0:15:37.880 I mean again spotlighting those brave women who came forward 0:15:37.920 --> 0:15:42.800 because nowadays with social media, it's so hard and hateful 0:15:42.920 --> 0:15:46.840 and and just I take my hat off to them 0:15:46.960 --> 0:15:49.640 and everyone else that coroborated my story because I've been 0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.960 telling this story for a very long time, but now 0:15:53.360 --> 0:15:56.320 people are starting to pay attention. You said too in 0:15:56.320 --> 0:16:02.640 the docuseries. Really they're going to kill me? Sorry I laugh? No, 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:12.600 No I didn't. I um, but like where was it, 0:16:12.680 --> 0:16:15.360 like what was it in you to be like okay, 0:16:15.640 --> 0:16:17.960 like I have to do whether whether they kill me 0:16:18.040 --> 0:16:19.920 or not. Like it's just like, what was your kind 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:22.280 of like final like breaking point to be able to 0:16:22.320 --> 0:16:25.080 share and not have that like obviously you still I 0:16:25.080 --> 0:16:26.760 don't know, do you still have fear or that they're 0:16:26.920 --> 0:16:29.000 you know, like have you talked to Michael or any 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:31.920 of those people. I mean, you see in the House 0:16:31.960 --> 0:16:34.200 of Hammer the third episode. It kind of answers a 0:16:34.200 --> 0:16:38.320 lot of the questions. Um, my whole life, I was threatened, 0:16:38.440 --> 0:16:42.000 and you know, again behind closed doors it was awful, 0:16:42.200 --> 0:16:45.000 and yet once you stepped out the front door, you 0:16:45.080 --> 0:16:47.600 had an image, and my grandfather controlled the narrative, so 0:16:47.600 --> 0:16:49.840 we were threatened all the time, and like, yeah, your 0:16:49.840 --> 0:16:52.440 grandfather was like watching people like that you would like 0:16:52.520 --> 0:16:55.920 date or talked to. I was like, whoa, there were 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.680 pictures of the inside of my apartments that there was 0:16:58.720 --> 0:17:00.440 no way they ever came to. So it was just 0:17:00.560 --> 0:17:03.320 very creepy. But again it was my normal. You know, 0:17:03.440 --> 0:17:05.000 if you're going to be my friend or I'm gonna 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:08.360 date you, you're gonna be under surveillance and be recorded, 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:10.280 and you know, you pick up the phone and you'd 0:17:10.320 --> 0:17:12.760 hear a click and you and I just became such 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:15.639 a smarter you know, it's like high Grandpa, are you listening, 0:17:15.640 --> 0:17:17.879 you know, because it's kind of you have to find 0:17:17.960 --> 0:17:20.160 humor and a way to deal with it because back 0:17:20.160 --> 0:17:23.639 then there was no social media, so you couldn't necessarily 0:17:23.680 --> 0:17:27.200 google how to rich people behave right, you just thought, 0:17:27.520 --> 0:17:31.320 it's my home, it's my parents. They're gonna keep me safe, 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.440 no one's gonna hurt me. And yet in my book, 0:17:34.520 --> 0:17:37.720 I go into a lot more detail about, you know, 0:17:38.000 --> 0:17:41.520 how I was abused or how I was treated it. 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:45.320 And what's interesting is people see in the house of hammer, 0:17:45.520 --> 0:17:47.120 you know, in a eleven year old holding a phone 0:17:47.160 --> 0:17:51.760 book while their father shot at them. It's that there 0:17:51.880 --> 0:17:55.880 was normal activity in my house. So again it's horrific 0:17:55.920 --> 0:17:58.520 to a lot of people. But I just thought he 0:17:58.520 --> 0:18:01.000 would never hurt me, or my mom would never hurt me. 0:18:01.040 --> 0:18:05.159 And and it's just one of those things where again 0:18:05.280 --> 0:18:07.840 I didn't choose this, like I didn't go looking for 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:10.280 this to happen. Um, I was kind of at peace 0:18:10.320 --> 0:18:14.040 with where my life was in San Diego and kind 0:18:14.080 --> 0:18:18.639 of accepted it. So again I knew there's a reason 0:18:18.720 --> 0:18:21.159 I'm still here, like I shouldn't be right. There were 0:18:21.200 --> 0:18:23.000 so many times I didn't want to be here, and 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:27.040 I self medicated and did bad things. But I'm a 0:18:27.119 --> 0:18:30.320 year and a half no medication and sitting in my 0:18:30.400 --> 0:18:33.320 emotions and like, it's a journey, it's a wild ride. 0:18:33.320 --> 0:18:36.639 And I'm here to also tell people that you know, 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:40.000 you can't do it alone and you can find people 0:18:40.000 --> 0:18:42.480 that will help you. I mean, I learned about therapists 0:18:42.480 --> 0:18:45.920 and sliding scales. As crazy as that sounds, it's like, oh, 0:18:45.480 --> 0:18:48.919 you know, but again, people will accept they won't to 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.960 help you. And and it's so weird for me to 0:18:52.640 --> 0:18:55.639 be able to say, okay, right, it's kind of like, no, no, 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:59.160 I'm sorry. It's just it's it's the whole. Yeah, it's 0:18:59.280 --> 0:19:03.560 weird right now, but it's good. I mean, I'm still breathing. 0:19:03.560 --> 0:19:05.760 I do a lot of yoga, I do I meditate 0:19:05.840 --> 0:19:08.640 a lot. Um do you still do you still talk 0:19:08.720 --> 0:19:13.240 to any of the family members? UM? Up until about 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.719 fifteen years ago when my mom passed away, UM, she 0:19:15.800 --> 0:19:18.919 kind of kept the fake family glue together and we 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:22.440 all spent a week on her deathbed and we all 0:19:22.480 --> 0:19:24.600 had to kind of be in the same room and exists. 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:28.240 So after that we all went our separate ways and 0:19:28.560 --> 0:19:33.120 um again, I was pretty much erased from the family, 0:19:33.440 --> 0:19:38.000 and it's um something I've dealt with, you know, to 0:19:38.200 --> 0:19:40.480 be part of the Army to Hammer family and yet 0:19:40.600 --> 0:19:43.920 not have the benefits of the perks in a sense 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:46.240 and kind of come to grips with what's my bigger 0:19:46.320 --> 0:19:49.440 purpose for being here? Why am I here? And literally, 0:19:49.600 --> 0:19:52.159 you know last year when the zen Blonde did that, 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.240 I had that Aha moment where I can really do 0:19:55.359 --> 0:19:58.080 some good and if nothing else, shine a light on 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:01.560 starting a conversation for a safe space for people to 0:20:01.600 --> 0:20:07.040 come forward, for consent, for accountability, and for advocating for 0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.760 victims and survivors. And that's kind of what I don't 0:20:11.800 --> 0:20:13.760 know what tomorrow is going to bring, but right now 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:17.720 it's like, even if it's talking on podcasts or Ted 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:22.920 Talks or writing another book, at least it's it's out 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.800 there now and I'm not going to stop. I'm curious 0:20:26.840 --> 0:20:29.280 like knowing and watching to like knowing the men in 0:20:29.320 --> 0:20:34.520 your family. Obviously Army is in believe he's done some rehabs. 0:20:34.520 --> 0:20:39.480 Whatever do you do you think that like he can change? 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:43.480 I mean just knowing again, like the history of of 0:20:43.640 --> 0:20:48.600 the men in your family. Speaking from experience and how 0:20:48.680 --> 0:20:50.760 I grew up. My father was in and out of 0:20:50.760 --> 0:20:54.520 mental institutions my whole life and went to you know, 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.480 rehab a million times at my grandfather's requests, so it 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.560 was never his choice and he never got well, ever healed. 0:21:00.680 --> 0:21:06.960 So for me, I believe that until a person takes 0:21:06.960 --> 0:21:11.280 accountability and makes amends for what they've done and chooses 0:21:11.400 --> 0:21:15.440 to heal, it's just for image. And again, my family, 0:21:15.640 --> 0:21:18.080 it was all about image. So when my mom left 0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:21.360 the house, her cigarettes were died to match her clothes. 0:21:21.359 --> 0:21:23.879 I mean, that's how perfect we had to be. It 0:21:23.960 --> 0:21:26.840 was crazy. It was really messed up, but again that's 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:29.520 that's what I'm used to. So I was told, I mean, 0:21:29.560 --> 0:21:32.680 women in the Hammer family were disposable. We were ornaments 0:21:32.760 --> 0:21:35.520 in the sense. And I was told, as long as 0:21:35.680 --> 0:21:38.000 you know, Casey, you look pretty and you say the 0:21:38.080 --> 0:21:40.240 right thing and don't embarrass us, you'll be taking care 0:21:40.240 --> 0:21:42.680 of the rest of your life. And that's pretty much. 0:21:42.920 --> 0:21:45.919 The men ruled the and my father was an only child, 0:21:45.960 --> 0:21:48.440 so it wasn't like it's a big family. I mean, 0:21:48.480 --> 0:21:52.119 there's my brother who's still alive, and then Army and 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:54.359 his brother Victor, who were still alive and that's it. 0:21:54.520 --> 0:21:58.880