1 00:00:01,880 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 1: Wind Down with Janet Kramer and I Heart radio podcast. Okay, 2 00:00:10,240 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: I don't even know, Okay, okay, Army Hammer. HM. There's 3 00:00:20,440 --> 00:00:22,720 Speaker 1: a thing called the House of Hammer out right now. 4 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,960 Speaker 1: We have Casey Hammer, who is the aunt of Army Hammer, 5 00:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,280 Speaker 1: who did the show, wrote the book. We're going to 6 00:00:30,360 --> 00:00:35,280 Speaker 1: have her on and I have I know, Kristen Catherine 7 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 1: have also we've dived into the House of Hammer uh series, 8 00:00:43,080 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 1: and it is It's wild. I mean, I texted you 9 00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,760 Speaker 1: at when I am and I was like, you did 10 00:00:50,760 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: this to me, Kramer, because this isn't something I gravitate towards. 11 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: Can I just tell you though a story about Army Hammer, please? 12 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,880 Speaker 1: I hope this goes where I've prayed it goes. Speaking 13 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 1: of answered, first, let's do that, because I was like, 14 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,679 Speaker 1: this guy is a guy we we would swipe on, 15 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:14,360 Speaker 1: you would swipe on him. We're gonna get to the 16 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,880 Speaker 1: We're gonna get tall of it. But okay, this is juicy. 17 00:01:18,160 --> 00:01:20,959 Speaker 1: Well it's not really, it's not really juicy, but it's 18 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:26,840 Speaker 1: so Army and I did a movie together, like, I mean, hey, 19 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:29,000 Speaker 1: back in the day, I mean way back in the day. Actually, 20 00:01:29,040 --> 00:01:31,640 Speaker 1: let me just pull it up right now, because I'm 21 00:01:31,640 --> 00:01:33,800 Speaker 1: gonna am. I honestly saw him and I was like, 22 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: this is an available bachelor, Like I thought, this is 23 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:41,720 Speaker 1: someone you would think is attractive me. Yeah, America, tell 24 00:01:41,760 --> 00:01:43,280 Speaker 1: me you've done too many movies. Without telling me you've 25 00:01:43,319 --> 00:01:46,760 Speaker 1: done too many movies. No, No, I'm trying. No, Hong, 26 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 1: It's like, well, let me just go to the movie. 27 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:54,160 Speaker 1: So it was called spring Breakdown and everyone a movie 28 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: with Amy Poehler. I'm sorry, have we met and Kristin 29 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 1: Cavalier uh sacer posing here which we had a conversation 30 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: in which we can talk about that in our time, 31 00:02:08,200 --> 00:02:11,160 Speaker 1: you and Kristen. Ok, let's just let's just stay on. 32 00:02:11,240 --> 00:02:16,080 Speaker 1: But it's a very We're going to get a drink. Um. Okay. 33 00:02:16,280 --> 00:02:22,440 Speaker 1: So Armie Hammer was Abercrombie boy in Spring Breakdown. Now 34 00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:27,000 Speaker 1: I had like a real talking part in this. Um 35 00:02:27,240 --> 00:02:29,840 Speaker 1: I didn't. But we're here, we're gonna break it down. 36 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:31,840 Speaker 1: This is this is just and I'm like, literally, I'm 37 00:02:32,000 --> 00:02:34,919 Speaker 1: I'm laughing at myself right now. I was seven, number two. 38 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: I didn't even have a name either. So but we 39 00:02:38,480 --> 00:02:40,919 Speaker 1: were like, but you talked and he was on a 40 00:02:40,960 --> 00:02:46,840 Speaker 1: bag or what I'm and so all I remember is 41 00:02:46,880 --> 00:02:49,280 Speaker 1: this but we we still had like it was like 42 00:02:49,360 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: so like Kristen was Kristen was seven number three. I 43 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: was seven number two, and then um Sophie Monk was 44 00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 1: like we were her like little groupies. So like I 45 00:02:58,560 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: would be like like one of my life just like 46 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: I can't even read, like you know, Like it was 47 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,200 Speaker 1: just like I was one of those girls and the 48 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:08,960 Speaker 1: award goes to ye. So but like Army was on 49 00:03:09,000 --> 00:03:15,480 Speaker 1: the show and he like, yeah, there, I am right 50 00:03:15,520 --> 00:03:19,600 Speaker 1: there and there wow. So Army like tried to hit 51 00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: on me, and I was like in my mind, I 52 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,160 Speaker 1: was like he's, you know, like ever cramby boy and 53 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:27,440 Speaker 1: he's ever crampy boy like you know, and I was 54 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:30,519 Speaker 1: just like not there with it. So then my friend 55 00:03:30,560 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 1: Caitlin Crosby was like this is like a couple of 56 00:03:34,040 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: years later, she's like Army. It was just like she's 57 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:40,280 Speaker 1: the most beautiful woman I ever saw, Like, oh my god, 58 00:03:40,280 --> 00:03:42,400 Speaker 1: I had the biggest crush on her, Like I tried 59 00:03:42,440 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: to ask her out and so I was like, well 60 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: like oh no, oh no no, because honestly, as I 61 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 1: was watching it, I was thinking, and I'm not joking 62 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: a I was like this is someone you would be 63 00:03:58,160 --> 00:04:02,280 Speaker 1: attracted to and A. And then also I thought he 64 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:04,839 Speaker 1: would be so attracted to you because the women on here, 65 00:04:04,920 --> 00:04:08,040 Speaker 1: I mean, the women he's attracted to our stunning. Well 66 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,440 Speaker 1: you're very sweet. But I was like, grammar would fit 67 00:04:10,480 --> 00:04:12,720 Speaker 1: in this quite well. Well, so I was like, well, yeah, 68 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:16,360 Speaker 1: I'm like like, okay, hook it up right. Well he 69 00:04:16,400 --> 00:04:19,680 Speaker 1: had just started dating his wife or whatever, so I 70 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:22,720 Speaker 1: was just like, Okay, he's dating someone. But I was 71 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: always like, damn it, the one that got away. Okay, 72 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,839 Speaker 1: so let me you're the one that got away. But 73 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:33,920 Speaker 1: here's where I want to break it down. Okay, so 74 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:36,880 Speaker 1: and I will say too. So I watched the documentary 75 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: and I actually ended up speaking. I'm not going to 76 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:41,880 Speaker 1: name her name. She was one of the girls on 77 00:04:41,920 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 1: the documentary, and I reached out to her. I d 78 00:04:43,800 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: m her and I said to her because there was 79 00:04:48,240 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: I know that she's gotten some hate and because he 80 00:04:53,080 --> 00:04:56,279 Speaker 1: was technically married at the time, But I'm like, what 81 00:04:56,520 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 1: these men tell these women that they pray on. Like again, 82 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:03,280 Speaker 1: I am remember calling one of the multiple affair girls 83 00:05:03,360 --> 00:05:05,440 Speaker 1: and they're like, wait, your husband was married, and I'm 84 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 1: like yeah, and I've got a kid so like these 85 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: girls don't know Like when she's like he called me 86 00:05:13,000 --> 00:05:15,000 Speaker 1: in the thing, She's like he called me all the time. 87 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:17,520 Speaker 1: He was texting all the time. Like it's like and 88 00:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 1: I want you to know that, Like I get it. 89 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,120 Speaker 1: And like also like I understand like the being like 90 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 1: prayed and like the you know, he's army hammer and 91 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 1: you're like wanting to be you know, this is like 92 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,479 Speaker 1: wild and you're in this world and like you're you're 93 00:05:31,520 --> 00:05:35,359 Speaker 1: like I could tell that her testimony was very authentic, 94 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:37,719 Speaker 1: and I just wanted to like for as many probably 95 00:05:37,720 --> 00:05:39,520 Speaker 1: hateful things as she was, Like I wanted to just 96 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: be like someone that's just like hey, I I like 97 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:44,560 Speaker 1: I saw you, I heard you, and like you know, 98 00:05:45,120 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: get off the blocks, you know what I mean, don't read, 99 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:52,679 Speaker 1: don't read. But like the like he wanted to cook 100 00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: these one girl's ribs, Like he wanted to take out 101 00:05:56,160 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: these girls ribs and cook them. Like it goes me 102 00:06:00,040 --> 00:06:04,840 Speaker 1: on like fantasy stuff, right, like it goes like past 103 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:08,640 Speaker 1: like this, I don't even know the BDS, Like I 104 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,200 Speaker 1: was b it's b D S M sex. But like 105 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:14,200 Speaker 1: what that girl was even saying, you know, they had 106 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: like the psychiatrist on there like, yeah, that that goes 107 00:06:16,160 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 1: like even beyond like what this is, Like they had 108 00:06:19,839 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: an expert come on, and she was like that's a 109 00:06:23,279 --> 00:06:26,279 Speaker 1: consensual thing, Like that's something both people are agreeing to. 110 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,599 Speaker 1: She was like, this is a person abusing essentially under 111 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,479 Speaker 1: this like disguise of it being B D S M right. 112 00:06:35,920 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 1: And I had this I'm not going to obviously name 113 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: his name, but when I was I had this guy 114 00:06:40,360 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: that I dated that was like way older than me 115 00:06:42,920 --> 00:06:47,120 Speaker 1: and I was younger. And it's scary when you know, 116 00:06:47,160 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: when when the younger girls and the older guys, because 117 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,159 Speaker 1: a lot of these girls were super young. Like I 118 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,480 Speaker 1: remember this dude that I was with, he was like, 119 00:06:54,360 --> 00:06:56,320 Speaker 1: this is my fantasy in my mind. I'm like, well, 120 00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:58,200 Speaker 1: I don't want this to be the fantasy, Like I 121 00:06:58,240 --> 00:07:01,000 Speaker 1: don't want to do this, you know what. I want 122 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: to please this person, you know, because he loves me 123 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:08,120 Speaker 1: and I love them, and like but then I remember 124 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,400 Speaker 1: one day we had showed up at one of his 125 00:07:11,560 --> 00:07:15,080 Speaker 1: fantasies and I was like, oh my god, like this 126 00:07:15,160 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 1: isn't actually what. I just played along with it, thinking 127 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:20,280 Speaker 1: like it wasn't going to actually happen. You didn't actually 128 00:07:20,280 --> 00:07:22,120 Speaker 1: want to eat my ribs is what I thought, right, 129 00:07:22,720 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: And I'm like, so I'm at this like I'm not 130 00:07:24,640 --> 00:07:26,360 Speaker 1: gonna I'm not gonna go into like told detail, but 131 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,840 Speaker 1: I just started crying and he got so angry with me, 132 00:07:28,840 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: and I'm like, but I didn't think this was like 133 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,560 Speaker 1: a real and these like girls, it's like I'm like 134 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: watching them, like, oh my god, it's like they're just 135 00:07:34,760 --> 00:07:37,000 Speaker 1: you know, they're again they're playing along with this like 136 00:07:37,080 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 1: fantasy and like, yeah, okay, it's kind of like cute 137 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:41,600 Speaker 1: and kinky whatever, but then he just takes it to 138 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: like this, it was abusive, so abusive, and then also 139 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:49,880 Speaker 1: like that's which is so scary because I'm like, but 140 00:07:50,000 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 1: like that kind of like like that one with that one, 141 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,480 Speaker 1: like I want to eat you and she's like, you know, 142 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,680 Speaker 1: she's like at first it's like okay, that's kind of 143 00:07:59,000 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 1: kind of cute, but then not knowing like I I 144 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 1: want to bite you. It was like I wanna want 145 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,440 Speaker 1: to bite you. I'm gonna and like, you know, I 146 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 1: don't know how kinky people get. But then when you 147 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: keep going, it's like but the slate I mean now nowadays, 148 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:14,400 Speaker 1: but in my twenties, I would have been like, okay, 149 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: like I don't know. Well, I also just think it's 150 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:19,400 Speaker 1: such a slow chip away. I think people are very 151 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 1: easy to judge. Yes, women, but like that. It's not 152 00:08:22,640 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: like this guy slid into the d m S and 153 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:26,480 Speaker 1: was like, Hey, I want to eat your face off 154 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,320 Speaker 1: or hey I want to take your ribs out, or 155 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: I want to smash you to the ground. Like it's 156 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:37,040 Speaker 1: a very sneaky slow and listen, you're in it at 157 00:08:37,080 --> 00:08:39,600 Speaker 1: that point. So then when you go thirty thousand feet 158 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:41,319 Speaker 1: it starts to you start to go like how did 159 00:08:41,360 --> 00:08:43,120 Speaker 1: I even do that? Or how did I entertain that? 160 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:44,840 Speaker 1: Or how did we even get here? But you're already 161 00:08:44,880 --> 00:08:46,360 Speaker 1: there at this point where he was like you know 162 00:08:46,760 --> 00:08:49,320 Speaker 1: so love bombing love bombing love bombing that you're like, 163 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 1: it's hard to get out of that situation, right, and 164 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:54,720 Speaker 1: you actually don't even know you're in it. So I think, well, 165 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 1: I think that's like because I'm like, I remember like 166 00:08:57,120 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: this one dude that wanted to have this like fantasy 167 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: that I'm my mind. I'm like I don't want those, 168 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,720 Speaker 1: but like I'm gonna go for because it's just a fantasy. 169 00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,120 Speaker 1: It's not gonna actually happen. But then when it does happen, 170 00:09:06,200 --> 00:09:07,679 Speaker 1: you're like, oh my god, this is not what I 171 00:09:07,720 --> 00:09:12,880 Speaker 1: actually wanted, like a board, because you're like, ropes aren't hot. Yeah, 172 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,840 Speaker 1: but even if it was a healthy relationship and you 173 00:09:15,880 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: went along with it and then you were like, wait 174 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,200 Speaker 1: a minute, this isn't what I want, that person then 175 00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,440 Speaker 1: should go oh my gosh, okay, so sorry you're not 176 00:09:24,480 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 1: comfortable with that, let's back off. That's where this connection 177 00:09:29,080 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 1: is missing. So that's where it's like the fantasy versus reality. 178 00:09:32,960 --> 00:09:34,720 Speaker 1: And it sounds like, you know, with him, like his 179 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:39,559 Speaker 1: fantasy has turned into this like dark seated reality. And honestly, 180 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: when I was watching it, like it's so sad to see, 181 00:09:42,960 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 1: like someone who's that um charismatic. Well, no, it's sick, 182 00:09:50,600 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: you know, Like it's like it's really like it's it 183 00:09:53,720 --> 00:09:56,360 Speaker 1: was sad to see because I'm like man like, but again, 184 00:09:56,360 --> 00:09:58,640 Speaker 1: and I don't know, And this is one another person 185 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:03,120 Speaker 1: that like kind of someone that I had, I will say, uh, 186 00:10:03,160 --> 00:10:05,439 Speaker 1: someone that I went on a date with was really 187 00:10:05,480 --> 00:10:08,560 Speaker 1: into like fantasy playing, and like I was immediately like nope, 188 00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:11,439 Speaker 1: like I like again, I can't be kinky. I can 189 00:10:11,480 --> 00:10:14,400 Speaker 1: be like whatever, but when you're when there are things 190 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:15,720 Speaker 1: that are not lining up and you want me to 191 00:10:15,720 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 1: do X, Y and Z, and your fantasies ain't happening 192 00:10:17,880 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 1: because your fantasy is. But I'm saying this because I 193 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:24,040 Speaker 1: think he is similar to the Army situation, where it's 194 00:10:24,080 --> 00:10:26,520 Speaker 1: like this guy could be with anyone he wants to 195 00:10:26,520 --> 00:10:30,240 Speaker 1: be with at any point at any time. Army. He 196 00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:35,520 Speaker 1: came from a multi multi, multimillion dollar family. I mean 197 00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,000 Speaker 1: they were like his grandfather didn't want to be the 198 00:10:38,040 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: great grandfather didn't want to be the president because it 199 00:10:40,200 --> 00:10:43,320 Speaker 1: wasn't powerful enough like he could have been. And that's 200 00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: like what was one of the quotes in there, And 201 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 1: it's like, so it's like, I think people that just 202 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: can have anything they want, they don't have the capacity, 203 00:10:51,200 --> 00:10:53,319 Speaker 1: like they need more, They need more of a fix 204 00:10:53,360 --> 00:10:55,400 Speaker 1: they like because everything else is like, oh, just to 205 00:10:55,440 --> 00:10:57,960 Speaker 1: have sex with a random girl, like how boring? Is up? 206 00:10:58,679 --> 00:11:00,800 Speaker 1: Another hot girl, another hot girl, but let me let 207 00:11:00,840 --> 00:11:02,880 Speaker 1: me throw in this fantasy of what I really want 208 00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:05,360 Speaker 1: to do. It's because they're so numb and the need 209 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:09,040 Speaker 1: for dominance is underlying in all of those fantasies well 210 00:11:09,080 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: and in the generation too, which is like wild from 211 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:16,520 Speaker 1: like the great grandfather to his dad, like and oh god, 212 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,120 Speaker 1: we have this aunt in the waiting room, so let's 213 00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:36,840 Speaker 1: just get her on. Hi. Oh my goodness, it's so 214 00:11:37,040 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 1: good just to see. I've I've been watching you. I 215 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:41,960 Speaker 1: mean I was knee deep in the screeners and watch 216 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:44,080 Speaker 1: all the episodes and I just and like to have 217 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: you here. I'm just thank you so much for joining 218 00:11:46,720 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: Wine Down and and being a part of the show. 219 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:53,040 Speaker 1: Oh my god, it's my pleasure. I was so honored 220 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:56,120 Speaker 1: when you wanted me to be on. I was like, yeah, okay. 221 00:11:57,760 --> 00:12:01,199 Speaker 1: I first just want to, um say, you know, you 222 00:12:01,280 --> 00:12:05,920 Speaker 1: shared a lot of hard truth on on you know, 223 00:12:05,960 --> 00:12:10,040 Speaker 1: House of Hammer, and UM, I'm sure you're going to 224 00:12:10,080 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: be helping so many people too from the things that 225 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,439 Speaker 1: you've said, you know, just about sexual abuse that you encountered, 226 00:12:16,480 --> 00:12:19,280 Speaker 1: and you know, just all the things that you've gone 227 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:20,800 Speaker 1: through in your life. And I just just thank you 228 00:12:20,840 --> 00:12:23,160 Speaker 1: for being open, vulnerable, and I just I just want 229 00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:25,120 Speaker 1: to kind of affirm you for that because I can't 230 00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 1: imagine how hard that was for you to do. Thanks it, Um, 231 00:12:30,160 --> 00:12:32,680 Speaker 1: it continues to be hard. It's it's a struggle, it's 232 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: it's one thing to UM live it because it's my normal. 233 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:39,400 Speaker 1: So it's what I experienced, so I'm used to it, right, 234 00:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: everything I grew up. But again it's it's UM shining 235 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: a light on multigenerational abuse in my family and holding 236 00:12:47,559 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: them accountable. It's kind of sixty two years later, I 237 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:54,320 Speaker 1: sit here before you and it's like, all right, it's 238 00:12:54,400 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: finally coming to the spotlight. And UM, it's been an 239 00:13:00,040 --> 00:13:03,440 Speaker 1: interesting journey because again, seven eight years ago, I self 240 00:13:03,480 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: published Surviving My Birthright, which was, as you probably know, 241 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,480 Speaker 1: it's a healing journal in a sense where you're writing 242 00:13:10,559 --> 00:13:13,760 Speaker 1: and you're affirming what's happening to you, and and then 243 00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,480 Speaker 1: when you're able to actually hold the book right, it 244 00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:21,560 Speaker 1: was UM validating to know that it was real right, 245 00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:24,160 Speaker 1: And again I controlled the narrative, and so then I 246 00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: was living a very quiet life down in San Diego. 247 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:29,000 Speaker 1: And last year I was a kitchen designer at the 248 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: Home Depot and one of my co workers were like, Casey, 249 00:13:32,160 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: you better get on social media. Someone by the name 250 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 1: of this in Blonde is blowing up your life. And 251 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: I just remember you, guys, I was watching it live 252 00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: as she Li've read my book, UM found it live 253 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,840 Speaker 1: read it and I was like, my life has completely changed, 254 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,200 Speaker 1: just like it's so out of control, like being on 255 00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: a roller coaster and you're doing the death drop right 256 00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:56,640 Speaker 1: and you throw your hands up, thinking hopefully I stand 257 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,079 Speaker 1: in the car right. And so then, um, there the 258 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:04,239 Speaker 1: moment where I think the universe says, here's a situation. 259 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,200 Speaker 1: How are you going to deal with it? Because at 260 00:14:06,240 --> 00:14:09,800 Speaker 1: that time, to Army was all over social media and 261 00:14:10,360 --> 00:14:12,800 Speaker 1: people were reaching out to me wanting a SoundBite once 262 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 1: they found out he had an aunt, right, and so 263 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,160 Speaker 1: I could have taken that route and participated. And it 264 00:14:20,240 --> 00:14:22,400 Speaker 1: was like, now, if people are going to talk to me, 265 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:24,640 Speaker 1: I want them to listen, and I want to be 266 00:14:24,680 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 1: an advocate for victims and survivors. And it was kind 267 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: of how can I turn this into something greater in 268 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,400 Speaker 1: a sense of shining a light on abuse, because it's 269 00:14:34,440 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 1: not just physical abuse that you see. There's mental abuse. 270 00:14:38,560 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: There's emotional abuse, and it's so deep rooted that you 271 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: get triggered all the time and you don't know what's 272 00:14:45,240 --> 00:14:48,800 Speaker 1: happening and you know you're meant to be isolated and 273 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:52,600 Speaker 1: self blame and self hatred and all those things. And 274 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,280 Speaker 1: what I'm finding is if people say to me, I 275 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: can see a part of my story in your story, 276 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,280 Speaker 1: because again and a lot of people will say my 277 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:07,080 Speaker 1: family wasn't as wealthy as yours or dysfunctional. But when 278 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: there's a butt, it's very important to spend a moment 279 00:15:11,920 --> 00:15:15,200 Speaker 1: and really listen because that's people need to be heard. 280 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:19,360 Speaker 1: And I'm hoping that this long winded version of how 281 00:15:19,480 --> 00:15:21,640 Speaker 1: it all kind of happened. And that's how the producers 282 00:15:21,640 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: found me. They they had read my book and said 283 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,360 Speaker 1: they wanted to tell my story. Um, and I really 284 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,480 Speaker 1: believe they were going to take care of it. And 285 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: then seeing the House of Hammer and the end result, 286 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: I mean again spotlighting those brave women who came forward 287 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:42,800 Speaker 1: because nowadays with social media, it's so hard and hateful 288 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,840 Speaker 1: and and just I take my hat off to them 289 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: and everyone else that coroborated my story because I've been 290 00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:52,960 Speaker 1: telling this story for a very long time, but now 291 00:15:53,360 --> 00:15:56,320 Speaker 1: people are starting to pay attention. You said too in 292 00:15:56,320 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 1: the docuseries. Really they're going to kill me? Sorry I laugh? No, 293 00:16:02,640 --> 00:16:12,600 Speaker 1: No I didn't. I um, but like where was it, 294 00:16:12,680 --> 00:16:15,360 Speaker 1: like what was it in you to be like okay, 295 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:17,960 Speaker 1: like I have to do whether whether they kill me 296 00:16:18,040 --> 00:16:19,920 Speaker 1: or not. Like it's just like, what was your kind 297 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:22,280 Speaker 1: of like final like breaking point to be able to 298 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:25,080 Speaker 1: share and not have that like obviously you still I 299 00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,760 Speaker 1: don't know, do you still have fear or that they're 300 00:16:26,920 --> 00:16:29,000 Speaker 1: you know, like have you talked to Michael or any 301 00:16:29,040 --> 00:16:31,920 Speaker 1: of those people. I mean, you see in the House 302 00:16:31,960 --> 00:16:34,200 Speaker 1: of Hammer the third episode. It kind of answers a 303 00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:38,320 Speaker 1: lot of the questions. Um, my whole life, I was threatened, 304 00:16:38,440 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: and you know, again behind closed doors it was awful, 305 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,000 Speaker 1: and yet once you stepped out the front door, you 306 00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:47,600 Speaker 1: had an image, and my grandfather controlled the narrative, so 307 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:49,840 Speaker 1: we were threatened all the time, and like, yeah, your 308 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,440 Speaker 1: grandfather was like watching people like that you would like 309 00:16:52,520 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 1: date or talked to. I was like, whoa, there were 310 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,680 Speaker 1: pictures of the inside of my apartments that there was 311 00:16:58,720 --> 00:17:00,440 Speaker 1: no way they ever came to. So it was just 312 00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:03,320 Speaker 1: very creepy. But again it was my normal. You know, 313 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:05,000 Speaker 1: if you're going to be my friend or I'm gonna 314 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:08,360 Speaker 1: date you, you're gonna be under surveillance and be recorded, 315 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:10,280 Speaker 1: and you know, you pick up the phone and you'd 316 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: hear a click and you and I just became such 317 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 1: a smarter you know, it's like high Grandpa, are you listening, 318 00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: you know, because it's kind of you have to find 319 00:17:17,960 --> 00:17:20,160 Speaker 1: humor and a way to deal with it because back 320 00:17:20,160 --> 00:17:23,639 Speaker 1: then there was no social media, so you couldn't necessarily 321 00:17:23,680 --> 00:17:27,200 Speaker 1: google how to rich people behave right, you just thought, 322 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,320 Speaker 1: it's my home, it's my parents. They're gonna keep me safe, 323 00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,440 Speaker 1: no one's gonna hurt me. And yet in my book, 324 00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: I go into a lot more detail about, you know, 325 00:17:38,000 --> 00:17:41,520 Speaker 1: how I was abused or how I was treated it. 326 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: And what's interesting is people see in the house of hammer, 327 00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: you know, in a eleven year old holding a phone 328 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: book while their father shot at them. It's that there 329 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,880 Speaker 1: was normal activity in my house. So again it's horrific 330 00:17:55,920 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 1: to a lot of people. But I just thought he 331 00:17:58,520 --> 00:18:01,000 Speaker 1: would never hurt me, or my mom would never hurt me. 332 00:18:01,040 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 1: And and it's just one of those things where again 333 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:07,840 Speaker 1: I didn't choose this, like I didn't go looking for 334 00:18:07,880 --> 00:18:10,280 Speaker 1: this to happen. Um, I was kind of at peace 335 00:18:10,320 --> 00:18:14,040 Speaker 1: with where my life was in San Diego and kind 336 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:18,639 Speaker 1: of accepted it. So again I knew there's a reason 337 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,159 Speaker 1: I'm still here, like I shouldn't be right. There were 338 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: so many times I didn't want to be here, and 339 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:27,040 Speaker 1: I self medicated and did bad things. But I'm a 340 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,320 Speaker 1: year and a half no medication and sitting in my 341 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 1: emotions and like, it's a journey, it's a wild ride. 342 00:18:33,320 --> 00:18:36,639 Speaker 1: And I'm here to also tell people that you know, 343 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,000 Speaker 1: you can't do it alone and you can find people 344 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,480 Speaker 1: that will help you. I mean, I learned about therapists 345 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:45,920 Speaker 1: and sliding scales. As crazy as that sounds, it's like, oh, 346 00:18:45,480 --> 00:18:48,919 Speaker 1: you know, but again, people will accept they won't to 347 00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:51,960 Speaker 1: help you. And and it's so weird for me to 348 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,639 Speaker 1: be able to say, okay, right, it's kind of like, no, no, 349 00:18:55,680 --> 00:18:59,160 Speaker 1: I'm sorry. It's just it's it's the whole. Yeah, it's 350 00:18:59,280 --> 00:19:03,560 Speaker 1: weird right now, but it's good. I mean, I'm still breathing. 351 00:19:03,560 --> 00:19:05,760 Speaker 1: I do a lot of yoga, I do I meditate 352 00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: a lot. Um do you still do you still talk 353 00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:13,240 Speaker 1: to any of the family members? UM? Up until about 354 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:15,719 Speaker 1: fifteen years ago when my mom passed away, UM, she 355 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:18,919 Speaker 1: kind of kept the fake family glue together and we 356 00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:22,440 Speaker 1: all spent a week on her deathbed and we all 357 00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 1: had to kind of be in the same room and exists. 358 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: So after that we all went our separate ways and 359 00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: um again, I was pretty much erased from the family, 360 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:38,000 Speaker 1: and it's um something I've dealt with, you know, to 361 00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:40,480 Speaker 1: be part of the Army to Hammer family and yet 362 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:43,920 Speaker 1: not have the benefits of the perks in a sense 363 00:19:43,960 --> 00:19:46,240 Speaker 1: and kind of come to grips with what's my bigger 364 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,440 Speaker 1: purpose for being here? Why am I here? And literally, 365 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,159 Speaker 1: you know last year when the zen Blonde did that, 366 00:19:52,240 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: I had that Aha moment where I can really do 367 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,080 Speaker 1: some good and if nothing else, shine a light on 368 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,560 Speaker 1: starting a conversation for a safe space for people to 369 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 1: come forward, for consent, for accountability, and for advocating for 370 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,760 Speaker 1: victims and survivors. And that's kind of what I don't 371 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:13,760 Speaker 1: know what tomorrow is going to bring, but right now 372 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,720 Speaker 1: it's like, even if it's talking on podcasts or Ted 373 00:20:17,800 --> 00:20:22,920 Speaker 1: Talks or writing another book, at least it's it's out 374 00:20:22,960 --> 00:20:26,800 Speaker 1: there now and I'm not going to stop. I'm curious 375 00:20:26,840 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 1: like knowing and watching to like knowing the men in 376 00:20:29,320 --> 00:20:34,520 Speaker 1: your family. Obviously Army is in believe he's done some rehabs. 377 00:20:34,520 --> 00:20:39,480 Speaker 1: Whatever do you do you think that like he can change? 378 00:20:40,359 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: I mean just knowing again, like the history of of 379 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:48,600 Speaker 1: the men in your family. Speaking from experience and how 380 00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,760 Speaker 1: I grew up. My father was in and out of 381 00:20:50,760 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: mental institutions my whole life and went to you know, 382 00:20:54,600 --> 00:20:57,480 Speaker 1: rehab a million times at my grandfather's requests, so it 383 00:20:57,560 --> 00:21:00,560 Speaker 1: was never his choice and he never got well, ever healed. 384 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:06,960 Speaker 1: So for me, I believe that until a person takes 385 00:21:06,960 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: accountability and makes amends for what they've done and chooses 386 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,440 Speaker 1: to heal, it's just for image. And again, my family, 387 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,080 Speaker 1: it was all about image. So when my mom left 388 00:21:18,080 --> 00:21:21,360 Speaker 1: the house, her cigarettes were died to match her clothes. 389 00:21:21,359 --> 00:21:23,879 Speaker 1: I mean, that's how perfect we had to be. It 390 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 1: was crazy. It was really messed up, but again that's 391 00:21:26,920 --> 00:21:29,520 Speaker 1: that's what I'm used to. So I was told, I mean, 392 00:21:29,560 --> 00:21:32,680 Speaker 1: women in the Hammer family were disposable. We were ornaments 393 00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:35,520 Speaker 1: in the sense. And I was told, as long as 394 00:21:35,680 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: you know, Casey, you look pretty and you say the 395 00:21:38,080 --> 00:21:40,240 Speaker 1: right thing and don't embarrass us, you'll be taking care 396 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:42,680 Speaker 1: of the rest of your life. And that's pretty much. 397 00:21:42,920 --> 00:21:45,919 Speaker 1: The men ruled the and my father was an only child, 398 00:21:45,960 --> 00:21:48,440 Speaker 1: so it wasn't like it's a big family. I mean, 399 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:52,119 Speaker 1: there's my brother who's still alive, and then Army and 400 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:54,359 Speaker 1: his brother Victor, who were still alive and that's it. 401 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,880 Speaker 1: That's all that's slept. I don't remember hearing anything about Victor. 402 00:21:59,359 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: Is he still, like was he involved in that? Because 403 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 1: I'm like Victor and Melissa, we didn't hear anything of 404 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,399 Speaker 1: her From Melissa, I don't UM. I haven't been in 405 00:22:09,480 --> 00:22:13,360 Speaker 1: contact with them since my mom passed. UM, And I'm 406 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:18,280 Speaker 1: not sure where he's at and what's happening right now. Um. 407 00:22:18,320 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 1: You know, last I heard the people were in l 408 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: A or the Cayman Islands. It's it's still I kind 409 00:22:23,840 --> 00:22:27,000 Speaker 1: of get my info probably how you guys do on 410 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,280 Speaker 1: you know, social media and and things like that. But yeah, 411 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,000 Speaker 1: we kind of keep our distance right now because too, 412 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: if I live my life afraid, I'm not stupid either 413 00:22:38,240 --> 00:22:40,679 Speaker 1: because I go outside and I know they're you know, 414 00:22:40,960 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 1: I need to be careful. But again, if I let 415 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:48,240 Speaker 1: fear control me, then they take my power. And I 416 00:22:48,240 --> 00:22:51,159 Speaker 1: won't give up my power ever again. So if I 417 00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 1: can make it through today and maybe change and help 418 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,680 Speaker 1: a few people right with my story, and it's good, 419 00:22:56,760 --> 00:22:59,320 Speaker 1: it's it's a good day. So one of the things 420 00:22:59,359 --> 00:23:01,800 Speaker 1: you said in an interview that it really resonated with 421 00:23:01,840 --> 00:23:04,479 Speaker 1: me was it was part of a longer quote, but 422 00:23:04,560 --> 00:23:08,800 Speaker 1: you said something that just really it just sat inside 423 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:11,240 Speaker 1: of me for a minute. Was power is the drug 424 00:23:11,800 --> 00:23:15,440 Speaker 1: M And I was like, well, I just I mean, 425 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,280 Speaker 1: I couldn't even digest that enough. It was just so 426 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: short inside of that sentence, but it made it just 427 00:23:21,560 --> 00:23:26,120 Speaker 1: fit for them, especially in house of camera. It's kind 428 00:23:26,119 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: of like, how how whatever reason you guys tune in 429 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:33,240 Speaker 1: to watch, or people watch, either for army or entertainment 430 00:23:33,440 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 1: or just curiosity, by the time you're finished, you're gonna 431 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:41,720 Speaker 1: see a darker, multi generational abuse of power. And I 432 00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:45,760 Speaker 1: think that's starting. I think it started before my grandfather, 433 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:48,600 Speaker 1: but unfortunately we only had three hours to tell this story, 434 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,400 Speaker 1: and there's so much more that can be told. Um, 435 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:55,359 Speaker 1: but my grandfather you saw, you know, President Kennedy on 436 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:58,399 Speaker 1: the phone, all the President's royalty, I mean, you know, 437 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:00,920 Speaker 1: now King Charles. I mean, there was like all these 438 00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 1: people that were in our circle all the time, and 439 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,960 Speaker 1: it was interesting to watch him control everybody. He recorded people, 440 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:12,159 Speaker 1: he blackmailed people, and that's how he ran the family also, 441 00:24:12,240 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 1: and so did my father and brother. I mean, they 442 00:24:14,359 --> 00:24:18,240 Speaker 1: all participated and that's how they saw it. And it's 443 00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: funny too because like my father, you know, killed someone, um, 444 00:24:21,960 --> 00:24:25,119 Speaker 1: and my grandfather covered it up and said it was 445 00:24:25,640 --> 00:24:28,159 Speaker 1: self defense, and my mother was like, no, he did 446 00:24:28,240 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: it in front of me, pulled out a gun and 447 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,000 Speaker 1: shop the guy. You know. So it's like you saw 448 00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,960 Speaker 1: not only a crime committed, but you saw them make 449 00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:38,200 Speaker 1: it go away. I mean, everybody could be bought, Everyone 450 00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,200 Speaker 1: had a price, so you didn't want to screw up, 451 00:24:41,400 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: like because you saw the ramifications of what my grandfather 452 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 1: picking up the phone could do. And again, it's it's 453 00:24:48,640 --> 00:24:51,560 Speaker 1: it's really scary and frightening when you think about it, 454 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,159 Speaker 1: especially like you know, when you think about, like again, 455 00:24:55,200 --> 00:24:57,360 Speaker 1: people in power, and it's like, yeah, you know, I'm 456 00:24:57,359 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 1: like I wonder how many people this person is killed 457 00:24:59,840 --> 00:25:02,359 Speaker 1: or this, you know, because they have that position of power. 458 00:25:02,400 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: And it's like, oh, one thing that I thought that 459 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:21,399 Speaker 1: this that they did really well. And I want to 460 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:23,320 Speaker 1: know if you kind of agree, is I feel like 461 00:25:23,359 --> 00:25:26,760 Speaker 1: a lot of times in our world, when we dive 462 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,600 Speaker 1: into a story of one person, we stop at one 463 00:25:29,640 --> 00:25:32,960 Speaker 1: person and so like or we maybe go like one 464 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:37,080 Speaker 1: generation over or whatever. But like to see this and 465 00:25:37,119 --> 00:25:39,399 Speaker 1: I thought like even the way that they did, the 466 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:41,719 Speaker 1: visual of just showing us the family tree back and 467 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,080 Speaker 1: forth and from Army all the way back to your 468 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:50,359 Speaker 1: great grandfather, right, no, your grandfather. Yeah. Um. I just 469 00:25:50,400 --> 00:25:53,719 Speaker 1: thought what was really eye opening and what people need 470 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: to see more of is that cycle breakers like yourself 471 00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:01,520 Speaker 1: are rare, brave, rare, powerful humans. That's what you are, 472 00:26:01,760 --> 00:26:06,440 Speaker 1: a brave, rare, powerful human. But we don't see how 473 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:08,879 Speaker 1: it just keeps getting passed down, Like we just we 474 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:10,800 Speaker 1: keep dealing with what's in front of us. But what's 475 00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:12,680 Speaker 1: in front of us isn't the whole truth, And what's 476 00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:16,880 Speaker 1: in front of us isn't generational usually is it's there's 477 00:26:16,920 --> 00:26:19,640 Speaker 1: so much generational behind everything that we're not even giving 478 00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:22,880 Speaker 1: the attention or power love to to try to even 479 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,439 Speaker 1: figure out where this came from. Like Army came from 480 00:26:25,520 --> 00:26:30,160 Speaker 1: somewhere he saw too much. Right, It's not something that 481 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:32,720 Speaker 1: you wake up and become a monster. It's something it's 482 00:26:32,720 --> 00:26:36,919 Speaker 1: a learned behavior. So it's kind of this control um 483 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,640 Speaker 1: and again, the power to be able to not only 484 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:41,960 Speaker 1: commit a crime, but to make it go away and disappear. 485 00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:46,200 Speaker 1: I mean that's huge, right um. And it's it's something 486 00:26:46,240 --> 00:26:50,000 Speaker 1: that you know, again, when I used to talk about 487 00:26:50,080 --> 00:26:54,919 Speaker 1: this about my family, people would automatically assume, oh, you 488 00:26:55,000 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 1: must have done something wrong because your family is like 489 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: wonderful on the outside. Well, yeah, it's all about image. 490 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:04,240 Speaker 1: I mean my brother, my father, my even my grandfather, 491 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,560 Speaker 1: even Army would walk into a room and they're this, 492 00:27:06,720 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: you know, six foot two three four, good looking, personable. 493 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: Like I used to always make a joke that they 494 00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,800 Speaker 1: could all be politicians because you really buy into their image. 495 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,920 Speaker 1: So people love them. So if if something's not sitting right, 496 00:27:21,640 --> 00:27:26,200 Speaker 1: it was your fault. So a lot of the response 497 00:27:26,240 --> 00:27:29,840 Speaker 1: I've gotten from the docuseries, from my friends or people 498 00:27:29,880 --> 00:27:32,639 Speaker 1: I've grown up with is I had no idea, and 499 00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: it's kind of like I tried to tell you, but 500 00:27:34,840 --> 00:27:38,639 Speaker 1: you wouldn't listen. So now I think what opened up 501 00:27:38,640 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: the door and all honesty is the me too movement 502 00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:46,439 Speaker 1: right brought attention on workplace environment, So I say there 503 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,679 Speaker 1: should be me too about home too, Because just because 504 00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,720 Speaker 1: your parents give birth to you right and say they 505 00:27:52,760 --> 00:27:55,360 Speaker 1: love you, it doesn't mean they can do anything they 506 00:27:55,400 --> 00:27:57,640 Speaker 1: want to you or put you in harm's way. It's 507 00:27:57,760 --> 00:28:01,280 Speaker 1: just it's not okay and it needs to stop. Um 508 00:28:01,320 --> 00:28:04,359 Speaker 1: And again, it's one person talking another person talking and 509 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:08,199 Speaker 1: another person and letting them know it's okay to come forward. 510 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,600 Speaker 1: I mean, in the Doctor series, you seek consent is 511 00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:14,000 Speaker 1: a huge topic because it's such a gray area. It's like, 512 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,000 Speaker 1: I'm not here to judge what you enjoy or what 513 00:28:17,040 --> 00:28:19,920 Speaker 1: you don't enjoy. But the minute you say no, I'm 514 00:28:19,960 --> 00:28:23,919 Speaker 1: not comfortable. Person needs to stop otherwise it's criminal. I 515 00:28:23,920 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: mean there's a line that's crossed. So again, you can't 516 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:29,280 Speaker 1: just say, oh, well, she was really into it, and 517 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:32,280 Speaker 1: you know it's her fault. She didn't live no, and 518 00:28:32,359 --> 00:28:36,080 Speaker 1: that's where we need to really talk about it. I 519 00:28:36,119 --> 00:28:39,440 Speaker 1: thought that too. There was a couple of the the 520 00:28:39,480 --> 00:28:42,720 Speaker 1: women that he I'm gonna say, I'm gonna just say victims. 521 00:28:42,760 --> 00:28:46,920 Speaker 1: So when they spoke, they you could almost tell like 522 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:48,920 Speaker 1: they had been shamed into this place of like why 523 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:51,280 Speaker 1: didn't say no? And they even said it, well I 524 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,000 Speaker 1: didn't say no, but I was like, okay, but when 525 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:57,000 Speaker 1: you're running away or you're being dragged down a hallway 526 00:28:57,520 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: and being sexually abused, that's what that is sexual abuse 527 00:29:01,680 --> 00:29:04,040 Speaker 1: at that point, and you could just I hated it 528 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:06,600 Speaker 1: because I watched them both say, two of them, at 529 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: least that I can remember say, well, you know, I 530 00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:11,040 Speaker 1: didn't say no. It was like as if as if 531 00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,480 Speaker 1: it's it's it's okay, or it's you're their fault, or 532 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,480 Speaker 1: you know that's not the truth, so it's and it's 533 00:29:18,520 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: not okay. And and and again it needs to Um, 534 00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,640 Speaker 1: the people need to be held accountable. And it's the 535 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:27,280 Speaker 1: people with money and power and fame that get away 536 00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:30,560 Speaker 1: with all of it or most of it because they 537 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:33,440 Speaker 1: can cover it up or silence you. I mean, it's 538 00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:38,400 Speaker 1: it's fearful that you know you might be followed or threatened. 539 00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:41,200 Speaker 1: And we all know that that's going on in a 540 00:29:41,240 --> 00:29:44,000 Speaker 1: sense of when you are going to speak out about someone, 541 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:49,080 Speaker 1: especially someone famous, there's probably threats all the time. And 542 00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:51,720 Speaker 1: and and again, I really take my hat off to 543 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:56,560 Speaker 1: the victims that came forward because that they still deal with. 544 00:29:57,040 --> 00:30:02,480 Speaker 1: I'm sure a lot of hate on social media. I mean, fortunately, Um, 545 00:30:02,520 --> 00:30:05,800 Speaker 1: I think the zen blonde who outed me, who were 546 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 1: dear friends now because she realized that she should have 547 00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:12,920 Speaker 1: halfway through maybe asked me like, didn't realize what she 548 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,480 Speaker 1: was doing right, Um, But again back then in TikTok, 549 00:30:16,560 --> 00:30:19,160 Speaker 1: you had sixty seconds. So I laugh at her and 550 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: I was like Lauren, you were you know, like caffeinated wrong. 551 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,360 Speaker 1: She goes, No, you don't understand. I only had sixty 552 00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:26,640 Speaker 1: seconds where now you know you can talk for a while. 553 00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,240 Speaker 1: I guess, but you know, again there are She went 554 00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:32,200 Speaker 1: and blocked a lot of the haters on my DMS 555 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:35,200 Speaker 1: because I take it personally. I mean, I read everything 556 00:30:35,240 --> 00:30:37,800 Speaker 1: and it means the world to me when people tell 557 00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:41,480 Speaker 1: me their story or they share an experience or even 558 00:30:41,520 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 1: just say thank you. I mean, but then you see 559 00:30:44,440 --> 00:30:48,200 Speaker 1: that one person um that maybe says bad things, and 560 00:30:48,280 --> 00:30:51,640 Speaker 1: it just triggers all that you're working so hard to 561 00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,360 Speaker 1: get through in your life and deal with. I get triggered, 562 00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:57,720 Speaker 1: and it's like you go into this death spiral I 563 00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: call it, you know, down the rabbit hole of just 564 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 1: like going back to being thirteen years old or eleven 565 00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:05,680 Speaker 1: years old or twelve years old, and it's like, I 566 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: feel like such a failure that I didn't protect little Casey. Right. 567 00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:13,080 Speaker 1: It's like, so you work really hard to try and 568 00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,280 Speaker 1: go back visually and take her hand and you know, 569 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 1: let's go on a walk or go to the ocean 570 00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:20,360 Speaker 1: or something, goofy. I mean literally, it's like there's so 571 00:31:20,400 --> 00:31:23,240 Speaker 1: many ways to to try and heal, but it's it's 572 00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 1: a constant struggle and people need to know it's not easy. No, 573 00:31:28,120 --> 00:31:31,680 Speaker 1: it's it's it's not. But also I want to say 574 00:31:31,720 --> 00:31:33,600 Speaker 1: to you too in the you know, thirteen year old Casey, 575 00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:35,760 Speaker 1: is you know when your mom was getting hit and 576 00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:38,160 Speaker 1: you saw the blood from what your father just did 577 00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,040 Speaker 1: to her. You know that's something too where it's like 578 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:45,760 Speaker 1: she still brought you in and there's no blame placing 579 00:31:45,760 --> 00:31:47,479 Speaker 1: blame on your mom, but it's also like you know 580 00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: there was you maybe grew up and I'm not trying 581 00:31:50,720 --> 00:31:52,680 Speaker 1: to project this just like I'm thinking of like my 582 00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:55,000 Speaker 1: past is like then you're thinking like, oh, that's how 583 00:31:55,040 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: it's supposed to be, and that's my worth and that's 584 00:31:57,920 --> 00:31:59,880 Speaker 1: what a man should be doing to you, and like 585 00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:02,920 Speaker 1: you know, and it's like I'm sure your mom would 586 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:04,880 Speaker 1: probably want to go back and take you out and 587 00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:07,480 Speaker 1: never bring you back, you know, but you know, I 588 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,000 Speaker 1: don't know how then she was raised her. So it's 589 00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:14,240 Speaker 1: like I also know that you know it's um you 590 00:32:14,360 --> 00:32:16,520 Speaker 1: you're only thirteen, You didn't know that you you know 591 00:32:16,720 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: how to leave? Could you couldn't leave? The sad thing too, 592 00:32:20,800 --> 00:32:24,200 Speaker 1: is that you know That's what I believed in my mind, 593 00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,600 Speaker 1: that my mom would keep me safe and coming to 594 00:32:27,760 --> 00:32:30,800 Speaker 1: grips with on her deathbed, because again, there was all 595 00:32:30,840 --> 00:32:33,000 Speaker 1: this abuse going on in the house. And when I 596 00:32:33,040 --> 00:32:35,440 Speaker 1: first wrote my book, I had her read it along 597 00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,920 Speaker 1: with everybody else in the family. Um, when I got triggered, 598 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,640 Speaker 1: I think it was in my thirties. I was doing 599 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:44,719 Speaker 1: a b role for victim No More right. It's in 600 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,440 Speaker 1: the House of Hammer docuseries and they were like, okay, Ca, 601 00:32:48,560 --> 00:32:50,760 Speaker 1: so you're gonna pretend like you're getting you know, raped 602 00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,000 Speaker 1: in the car or whatever. I was like, okay, cool, 603 00:32:53,120 --> 00:32:55,480 Speaker 1: you know, I want to be an actor. So when 604 00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:58,800 Speaker 1: that when they started and my hands got held over 605 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:02,360 Speaker 1: my head, all of a sudden something kicked in of 606 00:33:02,640 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: like I'm gonna die, like this is very familiar, and 607 00:33:06,440 --> 00:33:08,960 Speaker 1: my body went crazy and I almost killed this guy, 608 00:33:09,040 --> 00:33:12,680 Speaker 1: this poor actor, and it was like I was shaking, 609 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:14,760 Speaker 1: and I was and all of a sudden, the floodgates 610 00:33:14,840 --> 00:33:18,800 Speaker 1: open and I'm in my thirties and I'm remembering all this, 611 00:33:18,920 --> 00:33:20,800 Speaker 1: and I go right to my mom and I'm like, 612 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,080 Speaker 1: I must be crazy, right, like I'm remember and she 613 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:27,040 Speaker 1: admitted she knew everything that was happening. So then again 614 00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,240 Speaker 1: you go, okay, so why didn't you save me? Why 615 00:33:30,240 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 1: didn't you protect me? And then on her deathbed, and 616 00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:38,160 Speaker 1: this is where you can't change people. You cannot. It's 617 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,800 Speaker 1: almost like I tried for all these years. I just 618 00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,640 Speaker 1: wanted her to say I love you, I'm sorry, I 619 00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:45,680 Speaker 1: should have protected you, and you know what, that never 620 00:33:45,720 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: came out. So it's that moment where you just feel 621 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,959 Speaker 1: broken that no one loves you, and it's but again, 622 00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 1: it's that void, and then all of a sudden it 623 00:33:56,080 --> 00:33:58,640 Speaker 1: makes sense. It's like, Okay, this is what I'm chasing. 624 00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:01,800 Speaker 1: If this is what I need to work on going back, 625 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: and you know it's not my fault adublet cases that 626 00:34:05,080 --> 00:34:08,160 Speaker 1: I didn't protect little Casey. But it's really hard if 627 00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,440 Speaker 1: you guys have gone through any abuse, which you know 628 00:34:11,440 --> 00:34:16,160 Speaker 1: I'm not, but you know, it's so hard to rewrite 629 00:34:16,160 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: that script and and and kind of love yourself. So 630 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:23,279 Speaker 1: that's what I struggle with. But I'm getting so much better. 631 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 1: But again, it's it's a it's a process. But if 632 00:34:26,120 --> 00:34:29,479 Speaker 1: people here that you know, even someone like me raised 633 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,200 Speaker 1: in the family like mine, thinking that you know, everything 634 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 1: is perfect and wonderful, I'm really I'm just as messed 635 00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,319 Speaker 1: up and I struggle, you know, every day. But again, 636 00:34:39,360 --> 00:34:42,080 Speaker 1: if I wake up and I have my cats and 637 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:45,200 Speaker 1: you know I can write, it's just yeah, you just 638 00:34:46,239 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: it's it's um, it's a have you been able to 639 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,760 Speaker 1: give your heart to someone and be you know, how's 640 00:34:53,800 --> 00:34:58,719 Speaker 1: your relationship coming from that? It's Wait, you don't and 641 00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: you don't super trust me, and that's fascinating to me. 642 00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:07,719 Speaker 1: I love you. I mean, now I can look back 643 00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:10,160 Speaker 1: at all the men I dated or married, right, and 644 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:14,080 Speaker 1: they're all the epitome of my father and my brother. 645 00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,759 Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, what what was I thinking? So 646 00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:20,480 Speaker 1: I'm the type I'd rather be alone and I don't 647 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:23,680 Speaker 1: do apps or any so yeah, it's like, but I 648 00:35:23,719 --> 00:35:26,320 Speaker 1: still believe in the fairytale, you guys, I'm a hopeful romantic. 649 00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,839 Speaker 1: So one day, but he doesn't need to come and 650 00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: rescue me anymore because I did that myself. He just 651 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: needs to come and and you know, contribute to my 652 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,840 Speaker 1: life exactly, be a partner, and and we can travel 653 00:35:38,880 --> 00:35:41,120 Speaker 1: and I'm not gonna have kids, so that's out of 654 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:45,000 Speaker 1: the you know, the story. But again, hopefully I I 655 00:35:45,040 --> 00:35:47,800 Speaker 1: don't give up. I think that one day that truly 656 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,040 Speaker 1: will happen. I believe the universe is going to send 657 00:35:50,080 --> 00:35:53,840 Speaker 1: me someone after I get better and stronger on my 658 00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,440 Speaker 1: own and know that it's me that's that's strong, right, 659 00:35:58,360 --> 00:36:01,400 Speaker 1: Casey Yeah, I mean thank you for just your words 660 00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:06,399 Speaker 1: and sharing everything and um, wow, you're an incredible human being. Yeah, 661 00:36:06,760 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: these guys are wonderful. Where can I Where can our 662 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,240 Speaker 1: listeners you know, find you and and you know reach out. 663 00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,960 Speaker 1: I'm on Instagram, so Casey Hammer twenty one and then um, 664 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 1: I'm on TikTok Casey Hammer zero, I think, um, and 665 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:28,919 Speaker 1: I'm on Facebook and also um, yeah, like again I 666 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:31,759 Speaker 1: read the d M s Um, I appreciate all the 667 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:39,120 Speaker 1: love and support. Um, it's still yeah, it's it's it's 668 00:36:39,239 --> 00:36:42,120 Speaker 1: it's it's hard to put in rewards how grateful I am. 669 00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,840 Speaker 1: But again it's it's. Um, it's just embracing the journey. 670 00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,080 Speaker 1: And and I don't know where it's going to lead, 671 00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,839 Speaker 1: but I'm hoping that I can continue to, you know, 672 00:36:50,880 --> 00:36:55,120 Speaker 1: speak out for victims and survivors and really open up 673 00:36:55,120 --> 00:36:58,200 Speaker 1: the conversation. So you guys have helped this because I 674 00:36:58,239 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: know that your podcast reaches a lot to people and 675 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: I appreciate you for inviting me on. Well, we go 676 00:37:05,120 --> 00:37:06,920 Speaker 1: back with thirteen year old Casey and we bring her 677 00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:09,400 Speaker 1: straight up to and tell her love her and she's 678 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,759 Speaker 1: brilliant and beautiful. She's so honored to amend that it's 679 00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:16,000 Speaker 1: a part of your story. Um, Casey, thank you so 680 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:17,760 Speaker 1: much for coming on. We'd love to have you on again, 681 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:21,239 Speaker 1: so hopefully we can chat in the future. Okay, and 682 00:37:21,280 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: thank you so much, you guys. I so appreciate you. 683 00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:31,719 Speaker 1: Appreciate thank you. By oh man, that's just like she's beautiful. 684 00:37:31,840 --> 00:37:36,640 Speaker 1: She's so beautiful, and it's just I'm just I'm glad 685 00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:40,080 Speaker 1: that she freed herself from the trap and from the 686 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,239 Speaker 1: you know, like she's allowing herself to still feel love. 687 00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,680 Speaker 1: Like what a beautiful thing like that. She's like I still, 688 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:49,720 Speaker 1: you know, still a hopeless romantic, even after the freaking 689 00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:55,000 Speaker 1: history and the pain and the abuse and like that, 690 00:37:55,120 --> 00:37:57,960 Speaker 1: she's still like she's still kicking it, you know, and 691 00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,359 Speaker 1: like I know, it's very to me. I'm like, man, 692 00:38:01,480 --> 00:38:03,279 Speaker 1: like you could be like on the I'm going to 693 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:05,160 Speaker 1: remind you what she said if you ever go into 694 00:38:05,160 --> 00:38:08,319 Speaker 1: a dark hole again. But yeah, I mean she's just 695 00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,000 Speaker 1: like everybody else, though she's still triggered by the mean 696 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 1: d m s, you know, as brave as she's been. 697 00:38:13,360 --> 00:38:16,240 Speaker 1: You know, I think everyone needs to know that people 698 00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:18,359 Speaker 1: get triggered by that, you know. I mean, people need 699 00:38:18,440 --> 00:38:22,000 Speaker 1: to know that we're people. I mean, like, her story 700 00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: is crazy and people are still just going to give 701 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:26,880 Speaker 1: her hate. You know. I hate that for her because 702 00:38:26,960 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 1: she's been so brave and stood up for so many people. 703 00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:32,600 Speaker 1: The hate thing just drives me crazy. And that's like again, 704 00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:34,600 Speaker 1: when I reached out to the one girl in the docuseries, 705 00:38:34,640 --> 00:38:37,200 Speaker 1: I was like, the most hate comes from women, and 706 00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:39,920 Speaker 1: that part will always forever blow my mind. Why we 707 00:38:40,000 --> 00:38:43,799 Speaker 1: can't just like support other women and why hate? Why 708 00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,560 Speaker 1: why are we hating on other women? You don't know 709 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:49,839 Speaker 1: what someone's been through, what they're going through, um, what 710 00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:53,600 Speaker 1: they went through. And it's like that part just like 711 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:58,040 Speaker 1: really just like makes me sad that, like people are 712 00:38:58,120 --> 00:39:01,359 Speaker 1: just so hurtful and so mean and just like either 713 00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,160 Speaker 1: want to compare or want to be nasty, you want 714 00:39:03,160 --> 00:39:04,640 Speaker 1: to be like why would like how could you do? Why? 715 00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:09,400 Speaker 1: It's like you don't know someone's you know, history, someone's 716 00:39:09,560 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: just just don't know. It's like yourself right to yourself 717 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:17,400 Speaker 1: because it's just projecting. Yes, it's it's do the work 718 00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:20,480 Speaker 1: join the rest of us, right, but I can. I'll 719 00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:22,239 Speaker 1: give you a code. She's got a therapist code to 720 00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,480 Speaker 1: but really, do you know what I posted something? Darn man, 721 00:39:28,520 --> 00:39:31,600 Speaker 1: I posted like something about therapy. Just again, I like 722 00:39:31,719 --> 00:39:34,719 Speaker 1: to just try to help other people, you know, after 723 00:39:34,800 --> 00:39:37,399 Speaker 1: I sit with it for a little bit, help someone 724 00:39:37,440 --> 00:39:39,680 Speaker 1: else know that. Like people were all just in seasons 725 00:39:39,719 --> 00:39:43,000 Speaker 1: and like they're just like, oh, her therapist went back 726 00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:45,600 Speaker 1: to elementary school with the chalk because she's just thrown 727 00:39:45,640 --> 00:39:47,160 Speaker 1: up her hands not to do, not sure what to 728 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:48,759 Speaker 1: do with Joanna, And I'm like, man's like all in 729 00:39:48,840 --> 00:39:55,520 Speaker 1: her child you had. I'm sorry, but it's fine. They'll 730 00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,440 Speaker 1: bleep it. But it's like it's just like man, like 731 00:40:00,040 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 1: I find something, It's like it's I just it just 732 00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:05,080 Speaker 1: makes me so now I'm like I just want to 733 00:40:05,120 --> 00:40:07,399 Speaker 1: like now I'm just going to rand people's d ms 734 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:11,800 Speaker 1: and just saying just niceness, like like just being kind 735 00:40:11,920 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: because as I'm like, why should get their address and 736 00:40:13,760 --> 00:40:19,440 Speaker 1: Amazon Primum some sidewalk chalk they hide behind their computers. 737 00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:22,640 Speaker 1: But anyways, I um casey is very strong all like that. 738 00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,440 Speaker 1: The whole documentary. Um Watch, it's on Believe, it's on 739 00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:32,799 Speaker 1: Discovery plus House of Hammer, and it's it's sad to say. 740 00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,600 Speaker 1: And you know, and I hope, I hope Army can 741 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:39,600 Speaker 1: get the Helpy he you know, is is I hope? 742 00:40:39,600 --> 00:40:42,120 Speaker 1: I mean, I do believe people can change. I I 743 00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:46,359 Speaker 1: do do personally. Um, that is going to be a 744 00:40:46,360 --> 00:40:50,200 Speaker 1: lot of I mean, that is some dark, deep, deep stuff, 745 00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,440 Speaker 1: But I mean I do believe people can change, and 746 00:40:52,440 --> 00:40:54,799 Speaker 1: I do believe, you know, and I kind of love 747 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:57,879 Speaker 1: the fact that Robert Downey is you know, I think 748 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:00,759 Speaker 1: he'd either paid for his rehab or something, because it's like, 749 00:41:00,760 --> 00:41:02,320 Speaker 1: you know, he knows what it's like to be canceled 750 00:41:02,360 --> 00:41:04,479 Speaker 1: and written off as a human. And I don't think 751 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,839 Speaker 1: I personally just don't think people should be written off 752 00:41:08,120 --> 00:41:10,279 Speaker 1: as humans. And it's like it's in church, like you 753 00:41:10,320 --> 00:41:13,360 Speaker 1: know our pastor does you know, um it was in bars? 754 00:41:13,520 --> 00:41:18,360 Speaker 1: Uh yeah, church and bars or whatever. It's like, you know, 755 00:41:18,480 --> 00:41:20,799 Speaker 1: people can do some awful, terrible things, but like I 756 00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:25,280 Speaker 1: still believe people deserve a chance to change and do better. 757 00:41:25,719 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 1: Absolutely I agree, and a little grace along the way. 758 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:32,200 Speaker 1: That's a lot of grace sometimes. Well, I mean, so 759 00:41:32,640 --> 00:41:34,680 Speaker 1: you know, it's hard like someone that I'm less a child. 760 00:41:34,800 --> 00:41:37,440 Speaker 1: I don't think like you you could, you're dead to me. 761 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:42,279 Speaker 1: So there's certain things where I'm like, you know, how 762 00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:44,960 Speaker 1: much of a hypocritem I then to say that they 763 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: who I don't know, his his past, you know what 764 00:41:47,440 --> 00:41:49,839 Speaker 1: that person might have done to who? You know, it's 765 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,880 Speaker 1: a bit like, well, that's why I think it's people 766 00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,560 Speaker 1: like he's great for somebody like Casey, because it's you're 767 00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:57,960 Speaker 1: so easily canceled now. I mean, I know what it 768 00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:00,799 Speaker 1: feels like. Even I've had my own podcast and I've 769 00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:02,879 Speaker 1: been afraid to even talk on there sometimes because I'm like, well, 770 00:42:02,920 --> 00:42:04,480 Speaker 1: if I say the wrong thing, it doesn't just affect 771 00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:07,319 Speaker 1: my career, affects my husband's career. I don't want to 772 00:42:07,320 --> 00:42:10,120 Speaker 1: have to get canceled. Yeah, it's like, but then we're 773 00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:12,839 Speaker 1: supposed to all connect. That's why God put us here. 774 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,799 Speaker 1: We're supposed to commune and connect and share stories and 775 00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:19,320 Speaker 1: be with each other and be in the valleys and 776 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,680 Speaker 1: the mountaintops with each other. So it feels like we 777 00:42:22,760 --> 00:42:27,359 Speaker 1: are just so quick to just end everything. Yeah, well, 778 00:42:28,080 --> 00:42:30,759 Speaker 1: let's be nice slide into someone's dams and say something nice. 779 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,719 Speaker 1: To be nice to my best friend, you put whatever 780 00:42:34,760 --> 00:42:40,960 Speaker 1: you're the means of them all they say anything. All right, guys, 781 00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:42,160 Speaker 1: we'll see you next week and bye.