WEBVTT - Joe Dallesandro Thought Warhol Made Soup 0:00:01.840 --> 0:00:05.040 This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing, 0:00:05.680 --> 0:00:09.280 My chance to talk with artists, policy makers and performers, 0:00:09.720 --> 0:00:13.720 to hear their stories, what inspires their creations, what decisions 0:00:13.800 --> 0:00:20.760 change their careers, what relationships influenced their work. Joe Delessandro, 0:00:21.400 --> 0:00:23.840 you might not be able to place the name, but 0:00:23.920 --> 0:00:26.280 if you google it, and if you're of a certain age, 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:30.080 you'll recognize some of the most iconic images of the 0:00:30.080 --> 0:00:33.880 twentieth century. Take the cover of the Rolling Stones album 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.360 Sticky Fingers. You know the one I mean? Joe says, 0:00:37.400 --> 0:00:40.120 it's a close up of him or a certain part 0:00:40.159 --> 0:00:45.159 of him in jeans. Delessandro also starred in many of 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:49.440 Andy Warhol's films. In Flesh, he played a male hustler 0:00:49.600 --> 0:00:53.000 who Lou Reed later immortalized in his song take a 0:00:53.040 --> 0:00:56.880 Walk on the wild Side singing Little Joe never once 0:00:56.960 --> 0:01:01.440 gave it away. With his street mentality and pin up 0:01:01.480 --> 0:01:06.080 boy looks, Delessandro quickly found both a gay and straight following. 0:01:06.720 --> 0:01:08.959 As a young man. He hadn't set his sights on 0:01:09.120 --> 0:01:12.480 being an erotic art film icon. He had much more 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:16.880 humble aspirations. My dream was to own a pizza shop, 0:01:17.000 --> 0:01:19.680 and and make pizzas. And that's what I started doing 0:01:19.680 --> 0:01:21.840 when I was like fourteen, and I worked at a 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:27.000 pizza shop where This was in Queens Queen's right on 0:01:27.160 --> 0:01:31.480 Union Turnpike in Floral Park area, so it was a 0:01:31.600 --> 0:01:36.679 nice neighborhood. It was Lorenzo's pizza and I learned how 0:01:36.720 --> 0:01:40.560 to cook not just pizza, but in these big pizza ovens, 0:01:40.640 --> 0:01:43.720 and learned how to take those pants and make steaks 0:01:43.959 --> 0:01:47.120 and make all sorts of food. Who taught you to cook? 0:01:48.720 --> 0:01:52.360 This Italian? His name was, There was Lorenzo, and there 0:01:52.520 --> 0:01:59.240 was seventeen, no seventeen something like that. I can't remember. 0:01:59.280 --> 0:02:03.200 A long time ago. Was just a youngster. And when 0:02:03.200 --> 0:02:05.920 you were working with Lorenzo and Sabatino in Floral Park, 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.840 what happened? What? What? What? What detoured your pizza career? 0:02:10.320 --> 0:02:15.680 My juvenile delinquency? I uh, it was a little crooked 0:02:15.720 --> 0:02:19.480 and went off doing some bad things and I got 0:02:19.520 --> 0:02:24.320 myself sent away to h to a place school. School. 0:02:24.400 --> 0:02:26.600 You had to learn how to chop down trees. And 0:02:27.400 --> 0:02:29.799 I used to think those trees grew that way. I 0:02:29.840 --> 0:02:32.000 didn't know you had to prune them to make them. 0:02:32.040 --> 0:02:34.440 And I do it. You know, trees just grew with 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:37.840 no branches at the bottom, but now you have to cross. 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.560 So they set you up there to prune, prune trees 0:02:42.720 --> 0:02:47.440 and and make the forest look lovely. No. No, when 0:02:47.480 --> 0:02:49.600 you when you were a kid, it was tough. You 0:02:49.840 --> 0:02:53.200 you had a tough childhood, bouncing back and forth your father. Well, 0:02:53.560 --> 0:02:55.600 I had made a promise to my father if he'd 0:02:55.600 --> 0:02:57.919 finally take me home to state lived with him, that 0:02:58.000 --> 0:03:01.840 i'd behave because I grew up been uh, forced to 0:03:01.919 --> 0:03:07.200 care well, basically only two families, but the first family 0:03:07.320 --> 0:03:11.040 was the The major part of my childhood was with 0:03:11.080 --> 0:03:14.160 that family. Had a good experience with them. Yeah, it's 0:03:14.240 --> 0:03:17.200 just at a certain age you just want to be 0:03:17.320 --> 0:03:19.840 with you know, when you see your father once a month, 0:03:20.919 --> 0:03:24.239 and each each month you you go back to the 0:03:24.320 --> 0:03:28.200 to the other home, you just feel, I don't know, 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.520 I felt as a child that you know, this is 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.600 not where I need to be. I need Yeah. And 0:03:33.800 --> 0:03:36.680 that tide of calling somebody who wasn't my mommy mommy, 0:03:36.880 --> 0:03:39.760 or or daddy that weren't my father. Were they kind 0:03:39.800 --> 0:03:42.920 to you? Those two people they said they they had 0:03:42.920 --> 0:03:47.840 their own two children. Uh, the first one was I 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.200 was brought to be display mate in the second one 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:56.000 was a miracle baby, and so, uh we they used 0:03:56.040 --> 0:04:00.000 to tell me that, you know that we would treat 0:04:00.040 --> 0:04:01.960 it just like their own. You know that there was 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:07.200 they showed no partiality between us, but there was there 0:04:07.280 --> 0:04:11.080 was a great great amount of difference in the way 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:18.400 that I grew up there, and there was a little partiality. Yeah. Yeah, 0:04:18.440 --> 0:04:23.520 it's like all of her twist. Well, I was told, 0:04:23.720 --> 0:04:25.640 you know, the story is when I was a baby, 0:04:25.680 --> 0:04:28.599 how I came to be at that home. The people 0:04:28.720 --> 0:04:31.200 that wanted to take children would come to this window 0:04:31.240 --> 0:04:34.440 and look in on the kids and select from the window, 0:04:35.080 --> 0:04:38.479 like a puppy in the window. And they told me that. 0:04:38.560 --> 0:04:40.359 I went to the window and said, will you be 0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:47.800 my mommy? Yeah, And I kind of think that my 0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:51.239 kind of attitude. It was that there was a heavy 0:04:51.279 --> 0:04:54.159 set woman and I must have thought that meant food 0:04:54.920 --> 0:04:58.920 and she's eating. Well, yeah, take me with you. Why 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:01.640 about what you're You've been the puppy in the window 0:05:01.680 --> 0:05:05.919 that's been selected by people your whole life, haven't it again? 0:05:06.040 --> 0:05:09.640 And that's how it stayed. I never understood the looked 0:05:09.680 --> 0:05:13.760 thing because I didn't see it. Uh, But people took 0:05:13.800 --> 0:05:16.560 some nice pictures of me over the years, and that's 0:05:16.600 --> 0:05:20.240 not who fell. Yeah, that's not who I saw. I 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:23.640 saw something completely different. When you decided you wanted to 0:05:23.680 --> 0:05:25.480 go with your dad, where was your mom? She was 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:28.560 out of the picture. Yeah, she was completely out of 0:05:28.560 --> 0:05:30.479 the picture. And what'd your dad do for a living? 0:05:31.240 --> 0:05:35.279 He's an electronic engineer, worked in Sperry Ran it was 0:05:35.279 --> 0:05:36.880 was he working on the island or in the city 0:05:37.240 --> 0:05:41.120 in Minneola that's Long Islands, Nassau County. We moved from 0:05:41.120 --> 0:05:46.440 Brooklyn to Babylon when I was in the third grade 0:05:46.520 --> 0:05:49.080 or second grade. Was it weird to be on the 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:52.000 island coming from the city, Well, it was weird of 0:05:52.080 --> 0:05:55.720 moving back to the city, well Brooklyn. When we lived 0:05:55.720 --> 0:06:00.600 in Brooklyn, you know, that was a different different things 0:06:00.640 --> 0:06:04.080 because I was going to Catholic school there and when 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.080 we moved out to Long Island, I was going to 0:06:06.279 --> 0:06:09.880 a public school. And I didn't get hit anymore for 0:06:10.000 --> 0:06:13.919 not grossing my hands the right way, you know. So, 0:06:13.920 --> 0:06:16.000 so what were the circumstances on which the guy shot 0:06:16.040 --> 0:06:17.919 you and thought you had a piece on you? What happened? 0:06:18.360 --> 0:06:21.719 I was in a stolen vehicle and I you stole 0:06:21.720 --> 0:06:24.560 the vehicle. Yeah, so you were moving up in the 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:27.640 world in that Crook department was It wasn't like I 0:06:27.680 --> 0:06:32.800 was selling cars areny It was just me enjoy riding 0:06:32.839 --> 0:06:39.000 mostly and selling nice tires and bucket seats, and it 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:41.680 was a hobby. It wasn't a career. If the stuff 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:44.440 came off the car, I tried to sell it. But 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:46.880 you know, the people were older than me that we're 0:06:46.920 --> 0:06:49.920 buying this ship, and they just usually took advantage of that. 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:52.920 And if they were mean, they were just taken and 0:06:53.000 --> 0:06:56.920 not pay me. And another pattern in your life. You're 0:06:56.920 --> 0:06:59.159 doing all the work and you're not getting paid. And 0:06:59.160 --> 0:07:01.599 then so the guy would think I shot you. Yeah, 0:07:01.600 --> 0:07:04.920 he's going through a tunnel and didn't pay the toll. 0:07:05.000 --> 0:07:07.400 At one end, when I came out at the other, 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:12.840 they had a blocked the street with officers standing with 0:07:12.920 --> 0:07:16.000 their guns pointed. So at one hand went down to 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:17.920 open the door, and when I came back up to 0:07:17.920 --> 0:07:20.760 put them up, they thought. They said, we thought you 0:07:20.800 --> 0:07:24.000 were coming up with a gun, and how old are you? 0:07:24.080 --> 0:07:30.800 Then that's fifteen. You're fifteen years old getting shot with NYPD. Yeah, 0:07:30.800 --> 0:07:33.720 my god, it doesn't matter what I did. It was 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:41.160 juvenile delinquency, and so it was basically, you know, me 0:07:41.280 --> 0:07:43.360 making the decision on what place I was going to 0:07:43.480 --> 0:07:46.480 go to. You know, they gave me a choice of 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:50.320 different places, and they showed me the brochures and camp 0:07:50.360 --> 0:07:56.160 casts looked like a really lovely place. Where was that upstate? Yeah, 0:07:56.320 --> 0:07:59.160 in the cats and near the Cats Skills. So it 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.280 wasn't it wasn't a bad place, but it was not 0:08:02.320 --> 0:08:07.000 a fresh place that an inter city kid could get 0:08:07.040 --> 0:08:09.680 around in very well. You know, how long were you there? 0:08:10.600 --> 0:08:13.600 I think I was there maybe four months, and then 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:17.000 what happened? I decided I didn't like that place, so 0:08:17.960 --> 0:08:21.920 they took off. How hard was that to do? Difficult 0:08:21.920 --> 0:08:25.160 at all. It's for somebody that knew how to live 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:27.480 in the woods and camp and stuff like that, which 0:08:27.520 --> 0:08:31.640 I kind of knew who who talked. I went camping 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:34.440 with friends when I lived in Long Island. We went out. 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:37.920 We had a state park near us with a lake 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.360 and everything, and it was kind of nice. You pick 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:42.360 up things you can use that are useful. You learn 0:08:42.400 --> 0:08:43.920 how to camp in the woods, just in case you 0:08:43.960 --> 0:08:46.600 need to escape from a juvenile detention centering. You don't 0:08:46.640 --> 0:08:48.280 know that what's down the road. You know, it was 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:50.520 just you having fun. When you went out and stayed 0:08:50.559 --> 0:08:54.480 out overnight. It wasn't it wasn't any planned camping trip. 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.600 We didn't have tents or anything like that. We just 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:59.000 went out and stayed out all night. So when you 0:08:59.040 --> 0:09:01.080 get out of the space you were escape, you're on 0:09:01.120 --> 0:09:02.920 the lamb, so to speak from the pass. How long 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:08.840 you doing that? How does that last? Who finds you? Well, 0:09:08.880 --> 0:09:13.440 I decided that I was gonna go to California and 0:09:13.679 --> 0:09:20.400 uh and so I did one more small thing, barred money, 0:09:20.440 --> 0:09:25.080 basically without them knowing about it. And I went out 0:09:25.120 --> 0:09:28.560 to California with this money, doing a bus trip, and 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:32.720 I took a friend with me. So I borrowed this 0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:37.760 money kind of permanently. And it was enough to go 0:09:37.840 --> 0:09:40.640 to California and buy a pair of cowboy boots and 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:44.320 Texas and have to sell them back to the guy. 0:09:44.760 --> 0:09:47.880 How old were you when you arrived in California? So 0:09:47.880 --> 0:09:50.640 you're still fifteen years old. You're really packing a lot 0:09:50.640 --> 0:09:54.400 of excitement into this year. It was a good year. 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:58.000 That's a whole chapter in your book right there. And 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:01.040 you arrived That's when I started my mind in Korea. Well, 0:10:01.080 --> 0:10:02.840 I want to get to that, because no, now your 0:10:02.920 --> 0:10:04.960 dad is still in New York. Do you stay in 0:10:04.960 --> 0:10:06.600 touch with him or you lose contact with him while 0:10:06.600 --> 0:10:09.200 you're spread your wings out? And we didn't stay in 0:10:09.240 --> 0:10:15.000 contact you And where'd you go? What town? Eventually I 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:17.880 wound up in l A. I had done to Texas 0:10:17.960 --> 0:10:22.920 and to Mexico. I went, and I uh then came 0:10:22.920 --> 0:10:26.920 back out of Mexico and back to Texas and he hitched. 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.320 The ride was real kind of I was lucky with hitching, 0:10:30.600 --> 0:10:32.760 you know. I got it ride all the way up 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:37.199 to Los Angeles to the train station where I got 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:43.040 left off in l A. And made contact with what 0:10:43.240 --> 0:10:47.120 a nice guy who took me back to his place, 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:51.960 you know. So it's foster care all over here. Yeah. 0:10:53.200 --> 0:10:57.000 And he lived in Watts and it was I got 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:59.560 there and I, you know, i'd heard this was the 0:10:59.600 --> 0:11:03.080 slum area or the bad area. And I get there 0:11:03.120 --> 0:11:06.920 and I see these apartments with swimming pools and stuff. 0:11:06.960 --> 0:11:09.920 I say, you got a swimming pool? I said, how 0:11:09.960 --> 0:11:12.240 could you say this is the slum area? You out 0:11:12.240 --> 0:11:17.000 of your mind? This is this is incredible. So when 0:11:17.040 --> 0:11:22.160 they found this modeling job for me to do, I'm 0:11:22.160 --> 0:11:24.680 not sure, I do that. It makes some money. When 0:11:24.679 --> 0:11:27.240 did it hit you as it does? Like these little 0:11:27.280 --> 0:11:29.400 girls go to pageants, you know, they're they're like the 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:32.840 John Benet Ramsay thing where and they realize the power 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.600 they have. And when did you realize you had that 0:11:35.640 --> 0:11:38.120 power over people? Where they just they just like to 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:39.640 look at you and they didn't want to stop looking 0:11:39.679 --> 0:11:44.680 at you all day long? Well, when did that hit you? Hin? 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:49.640 Of I am knew that people treated me nice because 0:11:49.679 --> 0:11:52.720 of the way I look just for showing up. Did 0:11:52.720 --> 0:11:54.760 you did you had a few people like that in 0:11:54.840 --> 0:11:58.200 New York that also when I went back there and 0:11:59.200 --> 0:12:01.480 just we're happened? Had me come to dinner because I 0:12:01.600 --> 0:12:04.360 looked nice? I was a decoration. And then when you 0:12:04.400 --> 0:12:07.200 were in l A. Did you go with an agency 0:12:07.200 --> 0:12:10.880 and somebody repped you this criminal type guy? This was 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:16.480 not any this was you know, Oh you're so strong, 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.839 who you should do this? This muscle modeling? You know, 0:12:19.880 --> 0:12:22.040 we'll show your muscles and everything. Did you work out 0:12:22.040 --> 0:12:24.280 a lot? No? I never worked out. You never worked 0:12:24.280 --> 0:12:28.520 out your whole life ever? Oh come on, never, are 0:12:28.520 --> 0:12:32.760 you kidding me? My god? It's like you would drop 0:12:33.320 --> 0:12:35.760 down a tree, you know, a lot of trees, so 0:12:35.920 --> 0:12:38.720 you you but with like your physical culture, if you will, 0:12:38.960 --> 0:12:41.680 you were in a runner or a surfer or a 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.040 ball player or like what you did nothing to stay 0:12:44.040 --> 0:12:48.040 in tree whatever worked out. I mean, your your tree 0:12:48.080 --> 0:12:51.000 shopping career is behind you now and you're you know 0:12:51.080 --> 0:12:53.960 when I was, when I was really young, I wanted 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:56.079 to play football, so I had a lot of potatists 0:12:56.080 --> 0:12:57.760 so I could gain some weight. And you never gained 0:12:57.760 --> 0:13:00.959 a pound. And you know, I I think I've lost 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.160 about an inch and a half since I've gotten older. 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:06.200 I've gotten shorter, and I keep getting shorter. It seems 0:13:06.240 --> 0:13:09.240 like my wife tells and tells, me, well, you're very 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:12.800 you know, you're tall. Uh. And I used to always 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:16.560 a quite uh a person's age with their height. I 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.480 used to think, oh, that's an adult because they're they're tall. 0:13:20.320 --> 0:13:22.920 And I think of myself as a kid because I'm 0:13:22.960 --> 0:13:28.120 so short. Anyway, the criminal guy who's the modeling agency, 0:13:28.360 --> 0:13:32.200 how did that play out? Well, he introduces me to 0:13:32.280 --> 0:13:36.640 this person that wants to that does these uh these photographs, 0:13:36.679 --> 0:13:40.360 and they said, you know, look, Joe rubbed this oil 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:45.400 on you. And it starts out real, you know, really easy, 0:13:45.520 --> 0:13:48.960 you know, it's nothing, nothing that's too frightening to a 0:13:49.000 --> 0:13:52.600 person that's you know, being first introduced to it. It's just, 0:13:52.960 --> 0:13:55.320 you know, take your clothes off and stand over there 0:13:55.360 --> 0:13:58.439 and nude. Yeah, and for you did you feel that 0:13:58.480 --> 0:14:00.360 in that world you want to nose for people you 0:14:00.360 --> 0:14:04.120 could trust and not trust. Yeah, So the guy says, 0:14:04.160 --> 0:14:06.120 oil up and stand over there naked. You knew you 0:14:06.160 --> 0:14:10.760 were cool. Nothing was gonna happen there. Yeah. Did you 0:14:10.800 --> 0:14:13.480 find it weird? Yeah? I thought it was real weird. 0:14:13.520 --> 0:14:16.720 But I was gonna get fifty dollars, a whole fifty dollars. 0:14:16.760 --> 0:14:19.360 That was a lot of money back then, you know, 0:14:19.480 --> 0:14:24.800 and I thought, wow, fifty dollars was standing So yeah, 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:27.520 Joe making put job up like like you're making a 0:14:27.640 --> 0:14:32.200 muscle Joe, you know. And shortly after that, I have 0:14:32.320 --> 0:14:34.520 a fight with the guy that introduced me to this 0:14:34.920 --> 0:14:37.440 modeling people because he had this scam that he wanted 0:14:37.480 --> 0:14:41.120 to do. He wanted to blackmail somebody. You wanted me 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.640 to do something and doing that and also it's a 0:14:44.720 --> 0:14:48.360 stupid ship, you know. So I got angry and he 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:52.960 got he got violent. He was an ex coun that was, 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:59.280 you know, gonna show his toughness, not to me anyway. 0:15:00.000 --> 0:15:01.800 He broke a bottle to come at me, and I 0:15:01.880 --> 0:15:03.600 knocked the bottle out of his hand and went on 0:15:03.680 --> 0:15:09.400 the ground and broke and uh he uh. He did 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:11.760 a little dance with him. Yeah. He fell on the 0:15:11.800 --> 0:15:14.760 glass and got all cut up. You know. Well actually 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.840 I threw him on the glass and he got all 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.040 cut up. No, No, he fell on the glass. Yeah, 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.200 and were holding him down. You were trying to help him. 0:15:22.600 --> 0:15:24.840 He tried to press charges against you. Yeah, he tried 0:15:24.880 --> 0:15:26.680 to do a listen on since. Anyway, we went to 0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:31.000 court and they reached you, my father and say, you 0:15:31.040 --> 0:15:34.120 know your your sons out here, and oh you need 0:15:34.160 --> 0:15:36.280 to send them back, you know, put him on a 0:15:36.360 --> 0:15:39.920 plane and I'll send you the money. Where'd you live them? 0:15:39.920 --> 0:15:42.360 When he got to New York, I stayed with him 0:15:42.360 --> 0:15:45.040 for a week and then went out on my own again. 0:15:46.680 --> 0:15:48.680 It was the plan when you were back in New York. Well, 0:15:49.080 --> 0:15:51.280 the modeling thing again, did you think this is good money? 0:15:51.320 --> 0:15:54.880 I never thought about it, about the modeling thing, you know, 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.760 it wasn't something that I knew anybody. I had a 0:15:57.800 --> 0:16:01.080 couple of friends in New York that introduced me to 0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.920 other people. And and then one day one of these friends, 0:16:05.280 --> 0:16:10.000 uh said, Hey, I know this person that's uh making 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.680 these Campbell soup can you know, makes the candle soup? 0:16:13.040 --> 0:16:15.640 And I was thinking we were going to eat some soup, 0:16:16.440 --> 0:16:18.640 which I was all for. You're gonna go to the 0:16:18.680 --> 0:16:22.920 Campbell soup factory? Yeah, whatever, Pennsylvania. I had no idea 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:24.760 where it was. You could take a picture of you 0:16:24.800 --> 0:16:29.320 oiled up, said there's somebody sitting behind a camera reading 0:16:29.360 --> 0:16:32.360 a newspaper, so I couldn't see who it was or 0:16:32.440 --> 0:16:34.920 what it was, you know, but they wanted to introduce 0:16:34.960 --> 0:16:38.760 me that this Campbell soup Andy Warhole guy that I had. 0:16:38.920 --> 0:16:41.600 You know, I didn't know who Andy Warho was or 0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:45.520 you know, before I met them. Mine I had married 0:16:47.480 --> 0:16:54.440 young lady, my first my first wife. Ah no, I 0:16:54.440 --> 0:16:58.400 had to be eighteen then. So but it was why 0:16:58.400 --> 0:17:01.240 did you get married when you're right there was a 0:17:01.280 --> 0:17:03.120 premium for you. Why did you get married? My father 0:17:03.280 --> 0:17:08.639 was dating her mother, and my father wanted to she 0:17:08.800 --> 0:17:12.400 got herself pregnant. My father said, you know, you should 0:17:12.480 --> 0:17:16.520 take we should take this person, and he should own 0:17:16.600 --> 0:17:19.160 up to his responsibility of his kids were the father 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:23.720 I was also got pregnant with somebody else. My father said, 0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.399 we'll take him to court, you know, And and I 0:17:27.480 --> 0:17:29.720 kept telling my father, you shouldn't do that, and you 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:32.400 shouldn't push her to do that, because he's gonna come 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.200 in with a bunch. This is Brooklyn, you know, and 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.480 he can come a bunch of guys saying we all 0:17:36.480 --> 0:17:39.120 slept with her and nothing's going to ever come from 0:17:39.160 --> 0:17:41.880 which one of us as the father. Yeah, that's back 0:17:41.920 --> 0:17:49.840 before DNA and all that other ship. Thank god for DNA. Yeah, anyway, 0:17:49.960 --> 0:17:52.800 so you decided to marry her. I decided to marry 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:55.919 her and give the kid my name. You know what 0:17:56.000 --> 0:17:58.879 kind of work did you do that? I was a 0:17:58.920 --> 0:18:03.040 book binder, went to Actually I was assembly line and 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:08.320 didn't do anything except in the city, Ye, Manhattan. Who 0:18:08.800 --> 0:18:11.800 know why that job? Because my uncle ran the ran 0:18:11.880 --> 0:18:13.800 the show was his business. Yeah, well I don't know 0:18:13.840 --> 0:18:16.080 if it was his business, but he ran the shop. 0:18:16.960 --> 0:18:18.919 So was there a part of you when you're in 0:18:19.119 --> 0:18:22.960 Jersey and your book binding? And he got a sixteen 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:25.000 year old bride has got a kid, and we're not 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:27.879 quite sure who in the Brooklyn gang is really the father. 0:18:28.280 --> 0:18:30.240 Do you sit there and go I missed standing they're 0:18:30.280 --> 0:18:32.880 oiled up in a room naked getting the fifty bucks 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.160 from these guys. I don't know, did you miss that? Yeah? 0:18:36.280 --> 0:18:37.520 And then you and then you go meet the guy 0:18:37.600 --> 0:18:40.040 who's behind the newspaper, who makes the soup, who's gonna 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.280 make you soup for lunch? What happened there? He drops 0:18:43.320 --> 0:18:46.439 the newspaper. What happens? Obviously he became very fond of you, 0:18:46.520 --> 0:18:49.120 very quickly. Well, it wasn't him. It was the guy 0:18:49.200 --> 0:18:51.760 that was standing to decide of the camera and giving 0:18:51.800 --> 0:18:56.080 all the instructions to everybody. That was Paul Morrissy. So 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:00.240 he's the one that suggested that I'd be in the film, 0:19:00.240 --> 0:19:04.800 because you know, he was this character that asked everything 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.040 about your life, and I had told him, you know, 0:19:08.200 --> 0:19:13.280 and junior high had played on the wrestling team. He says, Oh, 0:19:13.320 --> 0:19:16.160 that's a good idea. We'll have you do that with Undine. 0:19:16.240 --> 0:19:19.680 You'll you'll teach him wrestling. So let's film that. We'll 0:19:19.720 --> 0:19:24.840 film that. What do you describe Morrissey? Then Marcy real smart, 0:19:24.920 --> 0:19:30.960 real educated, he had He was a Fordham graduate. He 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:36.040 was a social worker before in New York City where 0:19:37.280 --> 0:19:41.000 he really saw these uh strange people that he had, 0:19:41.320 --> 0:19:46.439 you know, work with. Uh. So he had plenty of 0:19:46.520 --> 0:19:52.680 great stories and he he shot these films that was shot. 0:19:52.720 --> 0:19:55.240 There were silent films I saw. I watched a couple 0:19:55.280 --> 0:19:59.080 of them. They were pretty good films. Your movie goer them, 0:19:59.080 --> 0:20:02.240 you're luck, Yeah, oh I was. I loved the movies. 0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:05.200 I didn't want to be in them. I just liked 0:20:05.240 --> 0:20:07.760 watching them. But when you watch the movies at Morrissey 0:20:07.920 --> 0:20:10.080 and or a warhol Man, they weren't like movies you 0:20:10.119 --> 0:20:12.640 saw in the theater. When I yeah, I thought they 0:20:12.640 --> 0:20:15.239 were a joke. I thought that. Well, when we were 0:20:15.240 --> 0:20:18.439 shooting this one thing the soup day they were shifting, 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:19.800 they asked me to be in the thing and I 0:20:19.880 --> 0:20:22.640 shot this most scene and they came over to me 0:20:22.680 --> 0:20:27.240 after we were done, and uh they asked me to 0:20:27.280 --> 0:20:31.560 sign a release. I said, you're not gonna this is 0:20:31.640 --> 0:20:34.520 just for fun. Nobody's gonna ever see this. This is 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:37.639 it's just I thought, just like a whole movie. I 0:20:37.640 --> 0:20:40.640 didn't think they were gonna, you know, ever show this anywhere. 0:20:40.680 --> 0:20:43.640 And thought it was a joke because what was happening 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:46.480 there was you know, pretty silly, you know, it wasn't 0:20:46.600 --> 0:20:49.439 you know, anything I ever saw in the theater. It 0:20:49.520 --> 0:20:54.600 was unfamiliar. Yeah. Really, I signed the release thinking it 0:20:54.600 --> 0:20:57.960 would never be released. And and then later on they 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:04.320 called me and uh, if I would them to photograph 0:21:04.440 --> 0:21:08.080 me for the advertising of this film that they you know, 0:21:08.119 --> 0:21:12.359 they shot with me first, before this movie that was 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:14.679 supposed to be a twenty four hour movie that turned 0:21:14.680 --> 0:21:17.040 into Loves of Undine. They cut it into a smooth 0:21:18.119 --> 0:21:19.960 that was your first movie, and that was my first 0:21:20.000 --> 0:21:23.240 movie with him. But before that was ever released, they 0:21:23.240 --> 0:21:27.040 had called me up and he did to ask me 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:31.119 to be in another movie. And then he put Paul 0:21:31.160 --> 0:21:34.960 on the phone, Who's told me, Yeah, Joe, we're going 0:21:35.000 --> 0:21:38.560 out to Arizona to shoot a western. Would you like 0:21:38.640 --> 0:21:41.600 to be in the West end? I said, sure, that'd 0:21:41.640 --> 0:21:44.400 be great, but you gotta pay me what I would 0:21:44.400 --> 0:21:46.600 I make at the book binding place, because I can't 0:21:46.600 --> 0:21:49.119 take off. I'm married now. I got to take care 0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:54.800 of my all this bullshit, Yeah about what I was making? 0:21:55.200 --> 0:22:00.560 Paid you exactly what you made? Probably they would. They 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:03.520 were always cheap. They didn't want to pay somebody too much. 0:22:03.560 --> 0:22:06.239 And then somebody else asked for the same thing. You know, 0:22:06.600 --> 0:22:10.560 isn't amazing you sit in a room back in nineteen 0:22:10.640 --> 0:22:13.720 sixty seven with a bunch of people who later on 0:22:14.480 --> 0:22:17.200 the soup Can guy would sell his paintings for tens 0:22:17.320 --> 0:22:20.720 of millions of dollars. Yeah, he becomes one of the 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:25.920 richest artists in history. Did you have an artistic sensibility 0:22:25.960 --> 0:22:27.560 but you thought that these guys were or you just 0:22:27.640 --> 0:22:30.360 as you said, it was just unfamiliar and silly. Well 0:22:30.400 --> 0:22:34.600 in the beginning, and you know it all it wasn't 0:22:34.640 --> 0:22:36.679 for me and and and He's art. You know, we 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:42.080 all participated in making the Andy art. They had said, 0:22:42.080 --> 0:22:44.199 you know, after we had shot the Cowboy movie and 0:22:44.280 --> 0:22:46.600 we came back, I thought that was it. Go back 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:51.879 to book binding. And you know I called Paul asking 0:22:51.960 --> 0:22:56.440 about the Western and uh. He had told me that 0:22:56.480 --> 0:22:59.520 he had a job for me at the factory. And 0:22:59.520 --> 0:23:02.359 he said, okay, you know, be happy to give up 0:23:02.560 --> 0:23:07.200 what I was doing, you know, do something there. And 0:23:07.200 --> 0:23:08.920 I went down to the factory and that was the 0:23:09.040 --> 0:23:11.439 day then, and he was shot when I showed up 0:23:11.440 --> 0:23:16.960 to the factory to work there. Coming up more on 0:23:17.080 --> 0:23:21.720 Joe Delessandro's relationship with Andy Warhol and why he eventually 0:23:21.800 --> 0:23:27.159 stopped working with him, Explore the Here's the Thing Archives. 0:23:27.600 --> 0:23:31.600