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Speaker 1: This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the thing,

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Speaker 1: My chance to talk with artists, policy makers and performers,

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Speaker 1: to hear their stories, what inspires their creations, what decisions

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Speaker 1: change their careers, what relationships influenced their work. Joe Delessandro,

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Speaker 1: you might not be able to place the name, but

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Speaker 1: if you google it, and if you're of a certain age,

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Speaker 1: you'll recognize some of the most iconic images of the

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Speaker 1: twentieth century. Take the cover of the Rolling Stones album

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Speaker 1: Sticky Fingers. You know the one I mean? Joe says,

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Speaker 1: it's a close up of him or a certain part

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Speaker 1: of him in jeans. Delessandro also starred in many of

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Speaker 1: Andy Warhol's films. In Flesh, he played a male hustler

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Speaker 1: who Lou Reed later immortalized in his song take a

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Speaker 1: Walk on the wild Side singing Little Joe never once

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Speaker 1: gave it away. With his street mentality and pin up

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Speaker 1: boy looks, Delessandro quickly found both a gay and straight following.

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Speaker 1: As a young man. He hadn't set his sights on

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Speaker 1: being an erotic art film icon. He had much more

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Speaker 1: humble aspirations. My dream was to own a pizza shop,

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Speaker 1: and and make pizzas. And that's what I started doing

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Speaker 1: when I was like fourteen, and I worked at a

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Speaker 1: pizza shop where This was in Queens Queen's right on

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Speaker 1: Union Turnpike in Floral Park area, so it was a

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Speaker 1: nice neighborhood. It was Lorenzo's pizza and I learned how

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Speaker 1: to cook not just pizza, but in these big pizza ovens,

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Speaker 1: and learned how to take those pants and make steaks

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Speaker 1: and make all sorts of food. Who taught you to cook?

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Speaker 1: This Italian? His name was, There was Lorenzo, and there

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Speaker 1: was seventeen, no seventeen something like that. I can't remember.

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Speaker 1: A long time ago. Was just a youngster. And when

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Speaker 1: you were working with Lorenzo and Sabatino in Floral Park,

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Speaker 1: what happened? What? What? What? What detoured your pizza career?

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Speaker 1: My juvenile delinquency? I uh, it was a little crooked

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Speaker 1: and went off doing some bad things and I got

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Speaker 1: myself sent away to h to a place school. School.

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Speaker 1: You had to learn how to chop down trees. And

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Speaker 1: I used to think those trees grew that way. I

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Speaker 1: didn't know you had to prune them to make them.

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Speaker 1: And I do it. You know, trees just grew with

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Speaker 1: no branches at the bottom, but now you have to cross.

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Speaker 1: So they set you up there to prune, prune trees

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Speaker 1: and and make the forest look lovely. No. No, when

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Speaker 1: you when you were a kid, it was tough. You

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Speaker 1: you had a tough childhood, bouncing back and forth your father. Well,

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Speaker 1: I had made a promise to my father if he'd

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Speaker 1: finally take me home to state lived with him, that

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Speaker 1: i'd behave because I grew up been uh, forced to

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Speaker 1: care well, basically only two families, but the first family

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Speaker 1: was the The major part of my childhood was with

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Speaker 1: that family. Had a good experience with them. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 1: just at a certain age you just want to be

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Speaker 1: with you know, when you see your father once a month,

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Speaker 1: and each each month you you go back to the

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Speaker 1: to the other home, you just feel, I don't know,

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Speaker 1: I felt as a child that you know, this is

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Speaker 1: not where I need to be. I need Yeah. And

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Speaker 1: that tide of calling somebody who wasn't my mommy mommy,

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Speaker 1: or or daddy that weren't my father. Were they kind

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Speaker 1: to you? Those two people they said they they had

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Speaker 1: their own two children. Uh, the first one was I

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Speaker 1: was brought to be display mate in the second one

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Speaker 1: was a miracle baby, and so, uh we they used

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Speaker 1: to tell me that, you know that we would treat

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Speaker 1: it just like their own. You know that there was

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Speaker 1: they showed no partiality between us, but there was there

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Speaker 1: was a great great amount of difference in the way

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Speaker 1: that I grew up there, and there was a little partiality. Yeah. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's like all of her twist. Well, I was told,

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Speaker 1: you know, the story is when I was a baby,

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Speaker 1: how I came to be at that home. The people

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Speaker 1: that wanted to take children would come to this window

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Speaker 1: and look in on the kids and select from the window,

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Speaker 1: like a puppy in the window. And they told me that.

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Speaker 1: I went to the window and said, will you be

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Speaker 1: my mommy? Yeah, And I kind of think that my

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Speaker 1: kind of attitude. It was that there was a heavy

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Speaker 1: set woman and I must have thought that meant food

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Speaker 1: and she's eating. Well, yeah, take me with you. Why

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Speaker 1: about what you're You've been the puppy in the window

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Speaker 1: that's been selected by people your whole life, haven't it again?

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Speaker 1: And that's how it stayed. I never understood the looked

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Speaker 1: thing because I didn't see it. Uh, But people took

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Speaker 1: some nice pictures of me over the years, and that's

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Speaker 1: not who fell. Yeah, that's not who I saw. I

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Speaker 1: saw something completely different. When you decided you wanted to

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Speaker 1: go with your dad, where was your mom? She was

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Speaker 1: out of the picture. Yeah, she was completely out of

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Speaker 1: the picture. And what'd your dad do for a living?

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Speaker 1: He's an electronic engineer, worked in Sperry Ran it was

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Speaker 1: was he working on the island or in the city

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Speaker 1: in Minneola that's Long Islands, Nassau County. We moved from

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Speaker 1: Brooklyn to Babylon when I was in the third grade

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Speaker 1: or second grade. Was it weird to be on the

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Speaker 1: island coming from the city, Well, it was weird of

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Speaker 1: moving back to the city, well Brooklyn. When we lived

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Speaker 1: in Brooklyn, you know, that was a different different things

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Speaker 1: because I was going to Catholic school there and when

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Speaker 1: we moved out to Long Island, I was going to

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Speaker 1: a public school. And I didn't get hit anymore for

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Speaker 1: not grossing my hands the right way, you know. So,

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Speaker 1: so what were the circumstances on which the guy shot

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Speaker 1: you and thought you had a piece on you? What happened?

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Speaker 1: I was in a stolen vehicle and I you stole

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Speaker 1: the vehicle. Yeah, so you were moving up in the

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Speaker 1: world in that Crook department was It wasn't like I

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Speaker 1: was selling cars areny It was just me enjoy riding

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Speaker 1: mostly and selling nice tires and bucket seats, and it

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Speaker 1: was a hobby. It wasn't a career. If the stuff

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Speaker 1: came off the car, I tried to sell it. But

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Speaker 1: you know, the people were older than me that we're

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Speaker 1: buying this ship, and they just usually took advantage of that.

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Speaker 1: And if they were mean, they were just taken and

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Speaker 1: not pay me. And another pattern in your life. You're

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Speaker 1: doing all the work and you're not getting paid. And

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Speaker 1: then so the guy would think I shot you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he's going through a tunnel and didn't pay the toll.

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Speaker 1: At one end, when I came out at the other,

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Speaker 1: they had a blocked the street with officers standing with

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Speaker 1: their guns pointed. So at one hand went down to

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Speaker 1: open the door, and when I came back up to

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Speaker 1: put them up, they thought. They said, we thought you

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Speaker 1: were coming up with a gun, and how old are you?

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Speaker 1: Then that's fifteen. You're fifteen years old getting shot with NYPD. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: my god, it doesn't matter what I did. It was

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Speaker 1: juvenile delinquency, and so it was basically, you know, me

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Speaker 1: making the decision on what place I was going to

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Speaker 1: go to. You know, they gave me a choice of

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Speaker 1: different places, and they showed me the brochures and camp

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Speaker 1: casts looked like a really lovely place. Where was that upstate? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: in the cats and near the Cats Skills. So it

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Speaker 1: wasn't it wasn't a bad place, but it was not

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Speaker 1: a fresh place that an inter city kid could get

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Speaker 1: around in very well. You know, how long were you there?

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Speaker 1: I think I was there maybe four months, and then

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Speaker 1: what happened? I decided I didn't like that place, so

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Speaker 1: they took off. How hard was that to do? Difficult

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Speaker 1: at all. It's for somebody that knew how to live

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Speaker 1: in the woods and camp and stuff like that, which

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Speaker 1: I kind of knew who who talked. I went camping

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Speaker 1: with friends when I lived in Long Island. We went out.

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Speaker 1: We had a state park near us with a lake

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Speaker 1: and everything, and it was kind of nice. You pick

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Speaker 1: up things you can use that are useful. You learn

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Speaker 1: how to camp in the woods, just in case you

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Speaker 1: need to escape from a juvenile detention centering. You don't

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Speaker 1: know that what's down the road. You know, it was

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Speaker 1: just you having fun. When you went out and stayed

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Speaker 1: out overnight. It wasn't it wasn't any planned camping trip.

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Speaker 1: We didn't have tents or anything like that. We just

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Speaker 1: went out and stayed out all night. So when you

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Speaker 1: get out of the space you were escape, you're on

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Speaker 1: the lamb, so to speak from the pass. How long

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Speaker 1: you doing that? How does that last? Who finds you? Well,

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Speaker 1: I decided that I was gonna go to California and

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Speaker 1: uh and so I did one more small thing, barred money,

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Speaker 1: basically without them knowing about it. And I went out

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Speaker 1: to California with this money, doing a bus trip, and

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Speaker 1: I took a friend with me. So I borrowed this

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Speaker 1: money kind of permanently. And it was enough to go

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Speaker 1: to California and buy a pair of cowboy boots and

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Speaker 1: Texas and have to sell them back to the guy.

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Speaker 1: How old were you when you arrived in California? So

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Speaker 1: you're still fifteen years old. You're really packing a lot

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Speaker 1: of excitement into this year. It was a good year.

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Speaker 1: That's a whole chapter in your book right there. And

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Speaker 1: you arrived That's when I started my mind in Korea. Well,

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Speaker 1: I want to get to that, because no, now your

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Speaker 1: dad is still in New York. Do you stay in

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Speaker 1: touch with him or you lose contact with him while

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Speaker 1: you're spread your wings out? And we didn't stay in

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Speaker 1: contact you And where'd you go? What town? Eventually I

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Speaker 1: wound up in l A. I had done to Texas

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Speaker 1: and to Mexico. I went, and I uh then came

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Speaker 1: back out of Mexico and back to Texas and he hitched.

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Speaker 1: The ride was real kind of I was lucky with hitching,

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Speaker 1: you know. I got it ride all the way up

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Speaker 1: to Los Angeles to the train station where I got

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Speaker 1: left off in l A. And made contact with what

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Speaker 1: a nice guy who took me back to his place,

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Speaker 1: you know. So it's foster care all over here. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And he lived in Watts and it was I got

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Speaker 1: there and I, you know, i'd heard this was the

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Speaker 1: slum area or the bad area. And I get there

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Speaker 1: and I see these apartments with swimming pools and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I say, you got a swimming pool? I said, how

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Speaker 1: could you say this is the slum area? You out

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Speaker 1: of your mind? This is this is incredible. So when

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Speaker 1: they found this modeling job for me to do, I'm

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Speaker 1: not sure, I do that. It makes some money. When

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Speaker 1: did it hit you as it does? Like these little

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Speaker 1: girls go to pageants, you know, they're they're like the

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Speaker 1: John Benet Ramsay thing where and they realize the power

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Speaker 1: they have. And when did you realize you had that

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Speaker 1: power over people? Where they just they just like to

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Speaker 1: look at you and they didn't want to stop looking

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Speaker 1: at you all day long? Well, when did that hit you? Hin?

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Speaker 1: Of I am knew that people treated me nice because

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Speaker 1: of the way I look just for showing up. Did

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Speaker 1: you did you had a few people like that in

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Speaker 1: New York that also when I went back there and

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Speaker 1: just we're happened? Had me come to dinner because I

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Speaker 1: looked nice? I was a decoration. And then when you

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Speaker 1: were in l A. Did you go with an agency

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Speaker 1: and somebody repped you this criminal type guy? This was

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Speaker 1: not any this was you know, Oh you're so strong,

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Speaker 1: who you should do this? This muscle modeling? You know,

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Speaker 1: we'll show your muscles and everything. Did you work out

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Speaker 1: a lot? No? I never worked out. You never worked

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Speaker 1: out your whole life ever? Oh come on, never, are

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Speaker 1: you kidding me? My god? It's like you would drop

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Speaker 1: down a tree, you know, a lot of trees, so

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Speaker 1: you you but with like your physical culture, if you will,

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Speaker 1: you were in a runner or a surfer or a

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Speaker 1: ball player or like what you did nothing to stay

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Speaker 1: in tree whatever worked out. I mean, your your tree

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Speaker 1: shopping career is behind you now and you're you know

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Speaker 1: when I was, when I was really young, I wanted

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Speaker 1: to play football, so I had a lot of potatists

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Speaker 1: so I could gain some weight. And you never gained

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Speaker 1: a pound. And you know, I I think I've lost

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Speaker 1: about an inch and a half since I've gotten older.

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Speaker 1: I've gotten shorter, and I keep getting shorter. It seems

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Speaker 1: like my wife tells and tells, me, well, you're very

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Speaker 1: you know, you're tall. Uh. And I used to always

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Speaker 1: a quite uh a person's age with their height. I

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Speaker 1: used to think, oh, that's an adult because they're they're tall.

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Speaker 1: And I think of myself as a kid because I'm

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Speaker 1: so short. Anyway, the criminal guy who's the modeling agency,

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Speaker 1: how did that play out? Well, he introduces me to

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Speaker 1: this person that wants to that does these uh these photographs,

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Speaker 1: and they said, you know, look, Joe rubbed this oil

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Speaker 1: on you. And it starts out real, you know, really easy,

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Speaker 1: you know, it's nothing, nothing that's too frightening to a

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Speaker 1: person that's you know, being first introduced to it. It's just,

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Speaker 1: you know, take your clothes off and stand over there

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Speaker 1: and nude. Yeah, and for you did you feel that

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Speaker 1: in that world you want to nose for people you

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Speaker 1: could trust and not trust. Yeah, So the guy says,

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Speaker 1: oil up and stand over there naked. You knew you

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Speaker 1: were cool. Nothing was gonna happen there. Yeah. Did you

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Speaker 1: find it weird? Yeah? I thought it was real weird.

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Speaker 1: But I was gonna get fifty dollars, a whole fifty dollars.

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Speaker 1: That was a lot of money back then, you know,

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Speaker 1: and I thought, wow, fifty dollars was standing So yeah,

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Speaker 1: Joe making put job up like like you're making a

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Speaker 1: muscle Joe, you know. And shortly after that, I have

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Speaker 1: a fight with the guy that introduced me to this

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Speaker 1: modeling people because he had this scam that he wanted

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Speaker 1: to do. He wanted to blackmail somebody. You wanted me

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Speaker 1: to do something and doing that and also it's a

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Speaker 1: stupid ship, you know. So I got angry and he

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Speaker 1: got he got violent. He was an ex coun that was,

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Speaker 1: you know, gonna show his toughness, not to me anyway.

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Speaker 1: He broke a bottle to come at me, and I

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Speaker 1: knocked the bottle out of his hand and went on

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Speaker 1: the ground and broke and uh he uh. He did

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Speaker 1: a little dance with him. Yeah. He fell on the

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Speaker 1: glass and got all cut up. You know. Well actually

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Speaker 1: I threw him on the glass and he got all

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Speaker 1: cut up. No, No, he fell on the glass. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and were holding him down. You were trying to help him.

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Speaker 1: He tried to press charges against you. Yeah, he tried

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Speaker 1: to do a listen on since. Anyway, we went to

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Speaker 1: court and they reached you, my father and say, you

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Speaker 1: know your your sons out here, and oh you need

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Speaker 1: to send them back, you know, put him on a

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Speaker 1: plane and I'll send you the money. Where'd you live them?

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Speaker 1: When he got to New York, I stayed with him

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Speaker 1: for a week and then went out on my own again.

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Speaker 1: It was the plan when you were back in New York. Well,

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Speaker 1: the modeling thing again, did you think this is good money?

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Speaker 1: I never thought about it, about the modeling thing, you know,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't something that I knew anybody. I had a

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Speaker 1: couple of friends in New York that introduced me to

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Speaker 1: other people. And and then one day one of these friends,

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Speaker 1: uh said, Hey, I know this person that's uh making

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Speaker 1: these Campbell soup can you know, makes the candle soup?

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Speaker 1: And I was thinking we were going to eat some soup,

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Speaker 1: which I was all for. You're gonna go to the

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Speaker 1: Campbell soup factory? Yeah, whatever, Pennsylvania. I had no idea

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Speaker 1: where it was. You could take a picture of you

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Speaker 1: oiled up, said there's somebody sitting behind a camera reading

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Speaker 1: a newspaper, so I couldn't see who it was or

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Speaker 1: what it was, you know, but they wanted to introduce

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Speaker 1: me that this Campbell soup Andy Warhole guy that I had.

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Speaker 1: You know, I didn't know who Andy Warho was or

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Speaker 1: you know, before I met them. Mine I had married

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Speaker 1: young lady, my first my first wife. Ah no, I

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Speaker 1: had to be eighteen then. So but it was why

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Speaker 1: did you get married when you're right there was a

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Speaker 1: premium for you. Why did you get married? My father

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Speaker 1: was dating her mother, and my father wanted to she

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Speaker 1: got herself pregnant. My father said, you know, you should

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Speaker 1: take we should take this person, and he should own

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Speaker 1: up to his responsibility of his kids were the father

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Speaker 1: I was also got pregnant with somebody else. My father said,

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Speaker 1: we'll take him to court, you know, And and I

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Speaker 1: kept telling my father, you shouldn't do that, and you

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Speaker 1: shouldn't push her to do that, because he's gonna come

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Speaker 1: in with a bunch. This is Brooklyn, you know, and

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Speaker 1: he can come a bunch of guys saying we all

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Speaker 1: slept with her and nothing's going to ever come from

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Speaker 1: which one of us as the father. Yeah, that's back

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Speaker 1: before DNA and all that other ship. Thank god for DNA. Yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: so you decided to marry her. I decided to marry

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Speaker 1: her and give the kid my name. You know what

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Speaker 1: kind of work did you do that? I was a

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Speaker 1: book binder, went to Actually I was assembly line and

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Speaker 1: didn't do anything except in the city, Ye, Manhattan. Who

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Speaker 1: know why that job? Because my uncle ran the ran

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Speaker 1: the show was his business. Yeah, well I don't know

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Speaker 1: if it was his business, but he ran the shop.

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Speaker 1: So was there a part of you when you're in

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Speaker 1: Jersey and your book binding? And he got a sixteen

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Speaker 1: year old bride has got a kid, and we're not

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Speaker 1: quite sure who in the Brooklyn gang is really the father.

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Speaker 1: Do you sit there and go I missed standing they're

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Speaker 1: oiled up in a room naked getting the fifty bucks

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Speaker 1: from these guys. I don't know, did you miss that? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: And then you and then you go meet the guy

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Speaker 1: who's behind the newspaper, who makes the soup, who's gonna

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Speaker 1: make you soup for lunch? What happened there? He drops

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Speaker 1: the newspaper. What happens? Obviously he became very fond of you,

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Speaker 1: very quickly. Well, it wasn't him. It was the guy

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Speaker 1: that was standing to decide of the camera and giving

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Speaker 1: all the instructions to everybody. That was Paul Morrissy. So

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Speaker 1: he's the one that suggested that I'd be in the film,

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Speaker 1: because you know, he was this character that asked everything

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Speaker 1: about your life, and I had told him, you know,

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Speaker 1: and junior high had played on the wrestling team. He says, Oh,

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Speaker 1: that's a good idea. We'll have you do that with Undine.

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Speaker 1: You'll you'll teach him wrestling. So let's film that. We'll

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Speaker 1: film that. What do you describe Morrissey? Then Marcy real smart,

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Speaker 1: real educated, he had He was a Fordham graduate. He

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Speaker 1: was a social worker before in New York City where

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Speaker 1: he really saw these uh strange people that he had,

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Speaker 1: you know, work with. Uh. So he had plenty of

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Speaker 1: great stories and he he shot these films that was shot.

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Speaker 1: There were silent films I saw. I watched a couple

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Speaker 1: of them. They were pretty good films. Your movie goer them,

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Speaker 1: you're luck, Yeah, oh I was. I loved the movies.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to be in them. I just liked

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Speaker 1: watching them. But when you watch the movies at Morrissey

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Speaker 1: and or a warhol Man, they weren't like movies you

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Speaker 1: saw in the theater. When I yeah, I thought they

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Speaker 1: were a joke. I thought that. Well, when we were

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Speaker 1: shooting this one thing the soup day they were shifting,

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Speaker 1: they asked me to be in the thing and I

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Speaker 1: shot this most scene and they came over to me

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Speaker 1: after we were done, and uh they asked me to

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Speaker 1: sign a release. I said, you're not gonna this is

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Speaker 1: just for fun. Nobody's gonna ever see this. This is

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Speaker 1: it's just I thought, just like a whole movie. I

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Speaker 1: didn't think they were gonna, you know, ever show this anywhere.

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Speaker 1: And thought it was a joke because what was happening

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Speaker 1: there was you know, pretty silly, you know, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: you know, anything I ever saw in the theater. It

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Speaker 1: was unfamiliar. Yeah. Really, I signed the release thinking it

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Speaker 1: would never be released. And and then later on they

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Speaker 1: called me and uh, if I would them to photograph

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Speaker 1: me for the advertising of this film that they you know,

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Speaker 1: they shot with me first, before this movie that was

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Speaker 1: supposed to be a twenty four hour movie that turned

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Speaker 1: into Loves of Undine. They cut it into a smooth

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Speaker 1: that was your first movie, and that was my first

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Speaker 1: movie with him. But before that was ever released, they

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Speaker 1: had called me up and he did to ask me

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Speaker 1: to be in another movie. And then he put Paul

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Speaker 1: on the phone, Who's told me, Yeah, Joe, we're going

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Speaker 1: out to Arizona to shoot a western. Would you like

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Speaker 1: to be in the West end? I said, sure, that'd

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Speaker 1: be great, but you gotta pay me what I would

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Speaker 1: I make at the book binding place, because I can't

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Speaker 1: take off. I'm married now. I got to take care

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Speaker 1: of my all this bullshit, Yeah about what I was making?

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Speaker 1: Paid you exactly what you made? Probably they would. They

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00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,520
Speaker 1: were always cheap. They didn't want to pay somebody too much.

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Speaker 1: And then somebody else asked for the same thing. You know,

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Speaker 1: isn't amazing you sit in a room back in nineteen

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Speaker 1: sixty seven with a bunch of people who later on

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Speaker 1: the soup Can guy would sell his paintings for tens

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Speaker 1: of millions of dollars. Yeah, he becomes one of the

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Speaker 1: richest artists in history. Did you have an artistic sensibility

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Speaker 1: but you thought that these guys were or you just

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Speaker 1: as you said, it was just unfamiliar and silly. Well

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Speaker 1: in the beginning, and you know it all it wasn't

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00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,679
Speaker 1: for me and and and He's art. You know, we

388
00:22:36,760 --> 00:22:42,080
Speaker 1: all participated in making the Andy art. They had said,

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Speaker 1: you know, after we had shot the Cowboy movie and

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00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,600
Speaker 1: we came back, I thought that was it. Go back

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Speaker 1: to book binding. And you know I called Paul asking

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Speaker 1: about the Western and uh. He had told me that

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Speaker 1: he had a job for me at the factory. And

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Speaker 1: he said, okay, you know, be happy to give up

395
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Speaker 1: what I was doing, you know, do something there. And

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00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:08,920
Speaker 1: I went down to the factory and that was the

397
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Speaker 1: day then, and he was shot when I showed up

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Speaker 1: to the factory to work there. Coming up more on

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Speaker 1: Joe Delessandro's relationship with Andy Warhol and why he eventually

400
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:27,159
Speaker 1: stopped working with him, Explore the Here's the Thing Archives.

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Speaker 1: I talked to Eric Scheiner, director of the Andy Warhol Museum,

402
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Speaker 1: on how the shooting affected Andy and his work. It

403
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:37,240
Speaker 1: was a huge wake up call and he really did

404
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:42,359
Speaker 1: start to think about business in a much more serious way. Mortality, immortality.

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Speaker 1: Take a listen that Here's the Thing Dot Org. This

406
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Speaker 1: is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the Thing.

407
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Speaker 1: The Pole Morrissey Trilogy has made up of three films, Flesh, Trash,

408
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Speaker 1: and Heat, directed by Morrissey and produced by Andy Warhol.

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Speaker 1: They depict the semi side of the late sixties and

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Speaker 1: early seventies. My guest today, Joe Delessandro, start in all

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Speaker 1: of them. Today Joe lives in Los Angeles with his

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Speaker 1: wife Kim, and manages an apartment building. Back then, Joe

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00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,280
Speaker 1: was quick to anger, but also had a Devil may

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Speaker 1: care attitude. He needed someone to look out for him.

415
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 1: Paul took on that role. Me and Paul were real

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Speaker 1: close and and Paul became like my mentor. He was

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Speaker 1: well educated, and he he knew the movie industry. He

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00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,400
Speaker 1: knew the movies and the actors and the and the directors,

419
00:24:45,480 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 1: and he knew all about the business. And and you know,

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00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 1: there was a big part of the making of these

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Speaker 1: silly little films that was business. They were you know,

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Speaker 1: there were all these uh the films that we had

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00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,280
Speaker 1: to ship off to universities because we had a They

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00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:07,080
Speaker 1: had a big following throughout the world. The films themselves,

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00:25:07,080 --> 00:25:11,080
Speaker 1: I guess they were thought of as you know art

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Speaker 1: or the introduction of uh of underground filmmaking to the people.

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Speaker 1: You know, they they had that kind of thing. I

428
00:25:20,960 --> 00:25:25,240
Speaker 1: would think over in Paris and in France and Italy

429
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,320
Speaker 1: where they made these kind of film one type of things,

430
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: and they made these uh I haven't God type movies.

431
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: And Paul would say, you know, whenever I had something

432
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:40,240
Speaker 1: against the movies, he would say, you know, these movies

433
00:25:40,280 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: will one day be in the museums, so don't be

434
00:25:44,280 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: upset with this scene. You know, they're they're not They're

435
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,479
Speaker 1: not the same as something you know, sleazy or anything

436
00:25:50,480 --> 00:25:53,439
Speaker 1: like that. This is this is art, you know, And

437
00:25:53,480 --> 00:25:55,800
Speaker 1: he would you and you needed to be sold on

438
00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: that again and again. Yeah, he would do it for

439
00:25:58,480 --> 00:26:00,840
Speaker 1: every time he would ask me to of a piece

440
00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: of clothing in the film. Was he after you? No, No,

441
00:26:05,880 --> 00:26:11,760
Speaker 1: Paul is strictly an a sexual type guy. I never

442
00:26:11,840 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: knew him to have never read anybody. I mean, not

443
00:26:14,320 --> 00:26:16,000
Speaker 1: that that matters, but I mean I'm just curious because

444
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:19,200
Speaker 1: the people that came on to me, you know, over

445
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:22,760
Speaker 1: the years, I would imagine it was a nonstopping it was.

446
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:25,120
Speaker 1: It was not not he was never one of them.

447
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,639
Speaker 1: But when you're there in that world, I mean, where's

448
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:29,720
Speaker 1: the love in your life when you're working with them?

449
00:26:29,880 --> 00:26:32,239
Speaker 1: Was it just the love of being counted as one

450
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:34,880
Speaker 1: of them? Is an important part of this family? Could

451
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,400
Speaker 1: you fall in love with people that you met? Did

452
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: you fall in love with men and women that you met?

453
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 1: Or like, where where do you become emotionally mature during

454
00:26:42,560 --> 00:26:45,240
Speaker 1: this because I would imagine you must have had hundreds

455
00:26:45,240 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: and hundreds of opportunity. Imagine every woman in Hollywood came

456
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,520
Speaker 1: in there and said, here's my phone number. They at

457
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:53,399
Speaker 1: least want to have dinner with you. Yeah, it was

458
00:26:53,520 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: kind of nice. Whatever, could you fall in love them? No?

459
00:26:57,880 --> 00:27:04,360
Speaker 1: What happened was they take like, no, no, they take

460
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:06,600
Speaker 1: they take me to the parties and the dinner parties.

461
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: They would be drinking going on, and of course I'd

462
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:12,800
Speaker 1: want to drink and Paul would later on tell me

463
00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:17,680
Speaker 1: that he noticed that I drank, you know, too much,

464
00:27:18,520 --> 00:27:20,879
Speaker 1: and I didn't stop. He was your coach, Yeah, and

465
00:27:20,880 --> 00:27:23,520
Speaker 1: he said, uh when I when we go out to

466
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 1: these events, you can't drink, you drink. I can't have

467
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:32,200
Speaker 1: your puffy tomorrow. He didn't care about puffy. But he

468
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,159
Speaker 1: would also try to control what I ate ship you know,

469
00:27:35,840 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 1: I said, but Paul, you eat peanut butter and jelly sandwiches.

470
00:27:39,040 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: I'm not going to eat the crap that you eat.

471
00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:43,760
Speaker 1: You know. He had a lot of instructions for me

472
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:48,200
Speaker 1: to be a better person. He he was a little

473
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,960
Speaker 1: pig million in the relations He would he would upset me,

474
00:27:53,040 --> 00:27:55,000
Speaker 1: and then when I get upset and want to knock

475
00:27:55,080 --> 00:27:59,879
Speaker 1: his teeth out, he would, uh, yeah, pretty much, I

476
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,080
Speaker 1: would every everything with Morrisey. Sounds like it was an

477
00:28:02,080 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 1: effect for filmmaking pretty much. He would make me upset

478
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:08,960
Speaker 1: to just make me get past that where I wouldn't.

479
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:10,920
Speaker 1: He was always afraid I was going to hit a

480
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,080
Speaker 1: reporter or something like that. So he did this stuff

481
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:17,080
Speaker 1: to push my buttons, and he would run and hide

482
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,320
Speaker 1: behind the door, and I would crash through the door

483
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,040
Speaker 1: and you'd go behind another one, and I get to

484
00:28:22,119 --> 00:28:23,639
Speaker 1: that one, and by the time I got to the

485
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 1: second door, I realized that, you know, I have to

486
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,159
Speaker 1: fix these fucking doors. You know, so this is not

487
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:32,720
Speaker 1: a not a smart thing to do. Better to just talk.

488
00:28:33,200 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: And so I calmed down and say, okay, I understand, now,

489
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:40,000
Speaker 1: let's let's talk about this. He was like a manager. Yeah,

490
00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:44,240
Speaker 1: mainly I worked for them. I did these after when

491
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:47,760
Speaker 1: Andy got shot. Paul decided that we had all this

492
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: row stock of film there and that we were going

493
00:28:49,960 --> 00:28:53,040
Speaker 1: to go out and and he was gonna do a

494
00:28:53,040 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 1: film without Andy there, you know, which Morrissey made many

495
00:28:56,040 --> 00:28:59,280
Speaker 1: films and right, yeah, and he would come and visit,

496
00:28:59,560 --> 00:29:03,720
Speaker 1: but he isn't you know, he was busy doing lithos. Yeah, yeah,

497
00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:08,120
Speaker 1: he's are At some point, you're not just in the

498
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,480
Speaker 1: family there with Paul and Andy and the photography and

499
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: the films. You become a celebrity in your own right,

500
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:17,840
Speaker 1: and your photographed for Rolling Stone, and you're photographed by Scuboolo.

501
00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 1: And when you step outside that home and other people

502
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:23,360
Speaker 1: want to kind of get into the whole iconography business

503
00:29:23,400 --> 00:29:26,240
Speaker 1: with you and photograph you. Were you just as comfortable

504
00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 1: with them? Did you feel as protected as you with them.

505
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:31,640
Speaker 1: Whenever I do these shoots with School or any of

506
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:35,120
Speaker 1: the other people, Paul was there or Andy was there,

507
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,240
Speaker 1: they were doing a shoot too. It wasn't I went

508
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,440
Speaker 1: down there on my own, you know. I was introduced

509
00:29:40,440 --> 00:29:43,720
Speaker 1: to these people and then it was everywhere. Yeah, it was.

510
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 1: It was a session that was connected with the the

511
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:50,400
Speaker 1: Andy Woho films, so they were either they were doing

512
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:53,000
Speaker 1: a story on Andy promote their product. Yeah, and I

513
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: just happened to be a pretty boy that they did

514
00:29:56,840 --> 00:30:00,920
Speaker 1: a couple of extra shots with, you know, because I

515
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:05,160
Speaker 1: photographed well, I don't know, uh, you photographed very well.

516
00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: Your photographed quite well. Well pulled back then he used

517
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,200
Speaker 1: to he used to get photographed to and he he

518
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: had this his one side that he would always do.

519
00:30:16,240 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: And he said, that's just the only side I can

520
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,000
Speaker 1: be photographed by, you know, Okay, Paul. Yeah, Now, now

521
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:27,160
Speaker 1: what about what about drugs and alcohol in your life? Then? None? None? Well,

522
00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,440
Speaker 1: I see, you know, if I couldn't drink socially with

523
00:30:29,480 --> 00:30:32,200
Speaker 1: these people out there, because Paul said I drank too much,

524
00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,000
Speaker 1: I wasn't a person that was going to go home

525
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,840
Speaker 1: and drink by myself and or in my house. I

526
00:30:36,880 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 1: was never a guy that you know, came back after

527
00:30:39,920 --> 00:30:42,479
Speaker 1: work and and said again, I gotta have a drink

528
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:46,000
Speaker 1: or or you know, got off from the job for

529
00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:48,160
Speaker 1: the weekend and said let me get a six pack

530
00:30:48,240 --> 00:30:51,240
Speaker 1: or a twelve pack. You know, I didn't do that.

531
00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:54,520
Speaker 1: It wasn't that kind of drinking. So when I when

532
00:30:54,520 --> 00:30:59,240
Speaker 1: I got done with my Warhole days, uh, and we

533
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 1: did our last two films together here it's got to

534
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:08,280
Speaker 1: be seventies seventy one. That was I guess the end.

535
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:12,000
Speaker 1: You know, at the end, I didn't want to work

536
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: with them anymore because now I came to understand that,

537
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,640
Speaker 1: you know, I did these movies with them, and they

538
00:31:19,720 --> 00:31:22,840
Speaker 1: were getting a lot of play, and people were recognizing

539
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: Paul always as my men to told me, you can't

540
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 1: fall into this thing with the reporters of you know,

541
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: what they say good about you, because then you gotta

542
00:31:31,520 --> 00:31:33,680
Speaker 1: believe what they say bad about you, and you don't

543
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:36,480
Speaker 1: want to be in the Mickey Mouse Club. Yeah. So

544
00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 1: I didn't go around and saying I'm a superstar. You know,

545
00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:42,640
Speaker 1: I didn't believe in any of that. It was all nonsense.

546
00:31:42,680 --> 00:31:45,840
Speaker 1: Still to me, Uh, it was fun doing the movies

547
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:49,080
Speaker 1: and we had a good time with it, and Paul

548
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:51,960
Speaker 1: would push me, you know, to do you know a

549
00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:55,160
Speaker 1: little more than I would want to do felt comfortable with.

550
00:31:55,280 --> 00:31:58,120
Speaker 1: And I tried to get comfortable with it all because,

551
00:31:59,720 --> 00:32:02,240
Speaker 1: you know, he said it was necessary for the film

552
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:05,360
Speaker 1: and telling the story. And a lot of the stories

553
00:32:05,440 --> 00:32:08,240
Speaker 1: that we were told were you know, things that I

554
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:12,880
Speaker 1: shared about my life, you know, from the hustling with Flesh,

555
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: you know, you know what do you mean? You know, yeah,

556
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,160
Speaker 1: you were how much I participated in in the story

557
00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 1: with with you know, making other films. Well, the thing is,

558
00:32:25,600 --> 00:32:28,920
Speaker 1: I told, you know, Paul was interested in knowing all

559
00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,400
Speaker 1: about me, So I told him parts of my life,

560
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:38,960
Speaker 1: you know, um in a kind of way. But no,

561
00:32:39,880 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 1: not the kind that you know everybody says, not the

562
00:32:42,160 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: kind of portrayed in in the movie. I knew when

563
00:32:45,400 --> 00:32:49,640
Speaker 1: people you know were interested in me, and and and

564
00:32:50,280 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: I get people to do more for me if I

565
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:55,360
Speaker 1: just you know, show up and yeah, leading them on

566
00:32:55,800 --> 00:33:00,320
Speaker 1: to believing there was setting down the road. And uh,

567
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:02,160
Speaker 1: of course, and you said I gotta go make a

568
00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:06,720
Speaker 1: phone call. You were going, yeah, pretty much. But that

569
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:09,400
Speaker 1: whole thing, you know, got me in trouble a couple

570
00:33:09,440 --> 00:33:12,280
Speaker 1: of times, you know. So it was and stuff that

571
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:15,000
Speaker 1: I felt comfortable with. So I was real happy when

572
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: I admit the whole people who was on my own?

573
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:24,000
Speaker 1: What's the first movie you make? It's a thing over

574
00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: in Puerto Rico. We shoot called The Gardener. Paul wanted

575
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 1: me to do a real movie. Uh, work with a

576
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 1: real crew and and you know, so that I would

577
00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 1: know the difference between you know who that guy named

578
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,640
Speaker 1: Jim Kay. I'm pretty sure that's his name, Jim ka Um.

579
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: What kind of part of your part? Well? I played

580
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:52,080
Speaker 1: the gardener, the lead role, and there was the actress

581
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,000
Speaker 1: was the girl who was in the guests Who's Coming

582
00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:01,160
Speaker 1: to Dinner Partier's wife. Yeah, she was, Uh, she makes

583
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:04,600
Speaker 1: a lot of films, but she was in this and uh,

584
00:34:05,720 --> 00:34:10,239
Speaker 1: I was this gardener that basically controlled the plants and

585
00:34:10,320 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: I turned into a tree at the end. Yeah, you're

586
00:34:14,360 --> 00:34:21,440
Speaker 1: familiar territory. Yeah, and it was you know, it was

587
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,120
Speaker 1: a fun film to make. What was it like for

588
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:26,759
Speaker 1: you to make a film like you show up on

589
00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,520
Speaker 1: a set and they go, we gotta shoot five or

590
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:31,920
Speaker 1: six pages today It's just everything that we did always

591
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,480
Speaker 1: felt felt so natural to me, you know, it was

592
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:39,759
Speaker 1: really easy came to me. It wasn't something that I

593
00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 1: felt I had to be taught, you know. Anyway, So

594
00:34:43,200 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 1: we we shot this film down on Puerto Rico. I

595
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: think it took a month. But what I came to

596
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: understand is I got I think I got paid thirty thousand,

597
00:34:54,800 --> 00:34:57,600
Speaker 1: eight or twenty nine thousand dollars for this film. Now

598
00:34:57,840 --> 00:35:02,440
Speaker 1: I'd never been paid you're a b yeah from from Andy,

599
00:35:02,520 --> 00:35:05,359
Speaker 1: never made nothing moving Paris. Now now I made these

600
00:35:05,560 --> 00:35:08,560
Speaker 1: att this money, and I just felt like, did that

601
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,960
Speaker 1: make you more funk? You to Andy and those guys

602
00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 1: pretty much, because the next thing I had to do

603
00:35:13,840 --> 00:35:17,000
Speaker 1: after I did this film, When I finished this film

604
00:35:17,120 --> 00:35:19,000
Speaker 1: and I had my wife with me, I had my

605
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,239
Speaker 1: mother in law, the first wife. This is my second wife. Okay,

606
00:35:23,280 --> 00:35:25,600
Speaker 1: we skipped over the fun Where did you meet her

607
00:35:26,480 --> 00:35:28,680
Speaker 1: in New York? And man and while you were in

608
00:35:28,719 --> 00:35:34,080
Speaker 1: the warhole and you fell in love with her? Well,

609
00:35:34,640 --> 00:35:36,759
Speaker 1: it was one of those things Paul said, you got

610
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,360
Speaker 1: to do the right thing. She was Mommy, yeah, okay,

611
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:46,359
Speaker 1: your old school, he's a shop. Marry the girl. You're

612
00:35:46,400 --> 00:35:48,440
Speaker 1: like out of a Springsteen song. And she knew I

613
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:50,919
Speaker 1: was going through this thing with my first wife, where

614
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:55,000
Speaker 1: I was trying to, you know, get a certain amount

615
00:35:55,000 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: of visitation with my son. And so she she knew

616
00:36:01,239 --> 00:36:02,759
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go out and have any more

617
00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,120
Speaker 1: you know kids, because I already had you know, a

618
00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:11,360
Speaker 1: tough situation yeah going on. And she said it was

619
00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: an accident, but it just seemed like it was too

620
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: contrived to be an accident. You know, I want to

621
00:36:18,280 --> 00:36:20,920
Speaker 1: you know, she she would come and stay with me

622
00:36:20,960 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: and go out and buy you know, curtains for the

623
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:27,879
Speaker 1: windows and stuff, and you know, making an eyelid, which

624
00:36:27,920 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 1: I didn't give a shit about, but you know, she

625
00:36:31,440 --> 00:36:34,719
Speaker 1: was making my little apartment there into a home. How

626
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:39,360
Speaker 1: did Surge gains profid Remember now, now I'm living in Italy.

627
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: I've been making movies for a while. I made three

628
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:45,600
Speaker 1: films a year for close to ten years over there.

629
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,160
Speaker 1: I went over there and made the Frankenstein and Dracula

630
00:36:49,320 --> 00:36:52,040
Speaker 1: and and the last two films I made with Woho

631
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: because after I finished The Gardener, I had these two

632
00:36:56,680 --> 00:37:00,480
Speaker 1: films signed to do with the Paul over In. What

633
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,200
Speaker 1: they did is they made a contract up with Ponti

634
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:11,040
Speaker 1: to have these films made. Car Yeah, in Andy Brownsburg,

635
00:37:11,160 --> 00:37:15,480
Speaker 1: they were the producers, and they wanted Andy to be

636
00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:19,400
Speaker 1: you know, his name to be connected to the films,

637
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:23,040
Speaker 1: and Paul as the director, and they wanted me to

638
00:37:23,080 --> 00:37:27,640
Speaker 1: be there and the star. Uh that's how it read,

639
00:37:28,680 --> 00:37:30,839
Speaker 1: because you know, they saw that we had made these

640
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:34,080
Speaker 1: other films, the trilogy had been made, and they were

641
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:37,680
Speaker 1: doing really well. I mean, people aren't stupid me with

642
00:37:37,920 --> 00:37:39,719
Speaker 1: Me and Paul were going over to Europe for a

643
00:37:39,719 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: while now every year to sell one of these films.

644
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,360
Speaker 1: And what they would do is they would sell flesh

645
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:49,040
Speaker 1: and they would package with that movie bike Boy, and

646
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:52,880
Speaker 1: I Amn, so Andy would sell these other films, you know,

647
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:58,879
Speaker 1: with my one movie that they wanted package. Yeah, package deal.

648
00:37:59,160 --> 00:38:04,920
Speaker 1: So they always said that, you know, the film that

649
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:08,799
Speaker 1: they really promoted when it was opening over there was

650
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:12,279
Speaker 1: the film that I was in. They weren't promoting in

651
00:38:12,360 --> 00:38:15,080
Speaker 1: the same the same way Bike Boy or I am in,

652
00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,080
Speaker 1: you know, and I just kind of felt like, you know,

653
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,439
Speaker 1: Paul had made this deal with me that I would

654
00:38:22,440 --> 00:38:27,680
Speaker 1: get a percentage of of the producers of their share,

655
00:38:27,719 --> 00:38:30,560
Speaker 1: Andy and Paul's share, two and a half percent from

656
00:38:30,640 --> 00:38:32,839
Speaker 1: Paul and to an half percent from Andy, which later

657
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,400
Speaker 1: on when Paul was given all the films that became

658
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 1: five percent I was supposed to get from Paul and

659
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,719
Speaker 1: over the years, I you know, I never saw any

660
00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: of it. Who's the best director you ever worked? I

661
00:38:46,560 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: mean I always say the best, but who's one that

662
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:50,800
Speaker 1: you sat there and go, man, I really dig do

663
00:38:50,880 --> 00:38:53,000
Speaker 1: with us. I like shooting scenes with the sky or

664
00:38:53,040 --> 00:39:02,359
Speaker 1: this woman surge again, which describe that God. Well, there

665
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:06,600
Speaker 1: was a small role that Gerard the Padre played in

666
00:39:06,640 --> 00:39:08,920
Speaker 1: the film. He was doing a Mocko Ferrari film in

667
00:39:09,000 --> 00:39:12,200
Speaker 1: Italy and he would fight up from Italy to be

668
00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 1: in this Uh this is your tim would surge. And

669
00:39:16,880 --> 00:39:19,719
Speaker 1: we were all drinkers back then. We drink all day

670
00:39:19,840 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: and Searche was a big drinker. But it didn't interfere

671
00:39:23,239 --> 00:39:29,440
Speaker 1: with our work. Uh. We all worked real hard. I

672
00:39:29,520 --> 00:39:32,560
Speaker 1: would always ask, you know, search if he wanted me

673
00:39:32,600 --> 00:39:35,960
Speaker 1: to do some of the lines in French, and he

674
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:38,640
Speaker 1: would say no, no, no, no, no, Joe. When you

675
00:39:39,080 --> 00:39:42,480
Speaker 1: when you try to speak French, your whole face contorts.

676
00:39:42,520 --> 00:39:47,719
Speaker 1: I don't want that. Yeah, yeah, just do English. And

677
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:54,240
Speaker 1: uh so this was a real treat to be working

678
00:39:55,400 --> 00:39:59,960
Speaker 1: in a film where my my, my co star Jane

679
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:05,279
Speaker 1: is uh, married to my director and they have a

680
00:40:05,280 --> 00:40:09,759
Speaker 1: beautiful marriage. And and I and I gotta pretend that

681
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:12,440
Speaker 1: this is my you know, that I'm attracted and this

682
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,040
Speaker 1: is my lover. It's supposed to be a real sexy movie,

683
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:19,360
Speaker 1: and it turns out that way. It's kind of real bizarre.

684
00:40:20,560 --> 00:40:22,920
Speaker 1: If you liked the film when it came out, yeah,

685
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:27,000
Speaker 1: I liked what I did. Yeah, Yeah, What was happening

686
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:29,280
Speaker 1: to your own sexuality when you were doing these films

687
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 1: by that time? I I just I just thought I

688
00:40:37,920 --> 00:40:43,080
Speaker 1: was marvelous. You know, here's how I heres how I

689
00:40:43,239 --> 00:40:46,479
Speaker 1: rate my sexuality. You know, my me and my brother

690
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 1: lived together and we had we had beds that was

691
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:53,240
Speaker 1: side by side. And one day my brother is having

692
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,840
Speaker 1: sex while I'm in the upper bed pretending to be asleep,

693
00:40:57,280 --> 00:41:02,000
Speaker 1: and he's going on for on none and about forty

694
00:41:02,120 --> 00:41:05,680
Speaker 1: five fifty minutes later he finishes up. So the next

695
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:09,520
Speaker 1: morning when we really get up and they go, you know, Bobby,

696
00:41:09,640 --> 00:41:11,680
Speaker 1: you're doing it. If it if it takes more than

697
00:41:11,800 --> 00:41:15,440
Speaker 1: fifteen seconds, you're doing it a little wrong. Because I

698
00:41:15,560 --> 00:41:19,279
Speaker 1: was the fifteen second man. And I came to find

699
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:22,080
Speaker 1: out many years later that my brother was doing all

700
00:41:22,120 --> 00:41:25,799
Speaker 1: my early girlfriend to see you in you know, when

701
00:41:26,080 --> 00:41:30,120
Speaker 1: he said you were the wrong tella song. He said,

702
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: you know my brother maybe then, the one that's got

703
00:41:32,719 --> 00:41:35,600
Speaker 1: the career in the movies that you're trying to to

704
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,640
Speaker 1: be with. But we can put his poster on the

705
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:41,440
Speaker 1: wall while you bang me, if that's what you prefer

706
00:41:41,920 --> 00:41:44,400
Speaker 1: now now and at the same time, because this is

707
00:41:44,400 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 1: a weird, non secret, but I've always this kind of

708
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: stuff is always so weird to me because I mean

709
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: I love music, and I even love, you know, the

710
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,840
Speaker 1: rock and roll music of my generation. You know, uh,

711
00:41:54,960 --> 00:41:56,640
Speaker 1: when I was young. I don't listen to much popular

712
00:41:56,680 --> 00:41:59,399
Speaker 1: music now actually kind of puts me off. But but

713
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,000
Speaker 1: so watch you on the cover of Sticky Fingers. They say,

714
00:42:02,040 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 1: is that correct? That is you? So wasn't it funny

715
00:42:05,200 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: to me? I mean, this is a this is an

716
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,479
Speaker 1: admittedly really dumb thing to say, but I can't help it.

717
00:42:09,680 --> 00:42:13,560
Speaker 1: You got the most famous crotch shot in history and

718
00:42:13,680 --> 00:42:16,960
Speaker 1: cultural history. Did they give you any money for that? No,

719
00:42:17,080 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: it had nothing to do with me. Then. What it

720
00:42:20,160 --> 00:42:23,239
Speaker 1: was was Andy was asked to give it, but it

721
00:42:23,280 --> 00:42:27,680
Speaker 1: didn't hadn't from Andy. Yeah, and and he just you know,

722
00:42:27,760 --> 00:42:30,000
Speaker 1: gave him a bunch of them, and they selected the

723
00:42:30,040 --> 00:42:32,960
Speaker 1: one that I recognize as my belt and my you know,

724
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:38,320
Speaker 1: your personality. It is me, and and yeah that rolling

725
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 1: Stone finally admits that it's me. So that's kind of cool. Yeah,

726
00:42:43,400 --> 00:42:45,440
Speaker 1: you know, he took I don't know a hundred years,

727
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 1: but I'm glad we could set the recursitor on National

728
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 1: Public Radio. That's your uh, that's your Florida peninsula down. Now.

729
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: The other thing is that, um uh, how did coppel

730
00:42:58,080 --> 00:43:01,880
Speaker 1: to find you? We'll see that said. That's you know,

731
00:43:04,640 --> 00:43:08,080
Speaker 1: back when I had done this trilogy with Paul Um,

732
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:10,719
Speaker 1: people were interested in working with me, you know, and

733
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:15,640
Speaker 1: they thought he's pretty interesting character. Let's see, let's see

734
00:43:15,640 --> 00:43:19,160
Speaker 1: what he can do. But and he would say to people,

735
00:43:19,480 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: you know, I think he does drugs. And Paul would

736
00:43:23,480 --> 00:43:27,000
Speaker 1: tell people that would ask about me, I don't think

737
00:43:27,000 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 1: he can do a script. I don't think he can.

738
00:43:29,440 --> 00:43:32,560
Speaker 1: And I thought, how fucking insane this is. You know,

739
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:35,880
Speaker 1: these are the people that are you know, supposed to

740
00:43:36,239 --> 00:43:40,719
Speaker 1: be in my corner, and they're not saying anything wonderful

741
00:43:40,719 --> 00:43:43,239
Speaker 1: about me. They're saying a bunch of crap, you know.

742
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:47,960
Speaker 1: So this is this is basically before we went off

743
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: to Italy to do the film. So when that came

744
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:55,120
Speaker 1: back to me, I said, you know, these people aren't

745
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:56,640
Speaker 1: in my corner. I don't I don't want to do

746
00:43:56,680 --> 00:44:01,439
Speaker 1: any more work with them. I'm through. But Cobra came

747
00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 1: around when he was getting ready to do The Godfather

748
00:44:04,760 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 1: for the first time. You know, Uh, there was mentioned,

749
00:44:08,760 --> 00:44:12,640
Speaker 1: you know, maybe we should see this new underground person.

750
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 1: But like I said, you know, nobody wanted to get

751
00:44:16,680 --> 00:44:20,240
Speaker 1: involved with somebody who has no you know, no training

752
00:44:20,480 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: or anything like that. And it's it's told by the

753
00:44:25,040 --> 00:44:27,839
Speaker 1: person that's made the films with him that they don't

754
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:30,759
Speaker 1: believe that he could do a script. So when we

755
00:44:30,800 --> 00:44:34,880
Speaker 1: went to do Frankenstein and Dracula, when I finally agree

756
00:44:34,920 --> 00:44:37,439
Speaker 1: that you know, yeah, I'll do these things if you

757
00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 1: you pay me right and give me that percentage that

758
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: I asked for. And there must be any line that

759
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,040
Speaker 1: I say in your film has to be written for me.

760
00:44:46,120 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 1: I'm not going to do one bit of improvisation, you know.

761
00:44:50,520 --> 00:44:52,920
Speaker 1: And it all has to be written of scripted, yea

762
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,399
Speaker 1: scripted and given to me. And so every day they

763
00:44:55,400 --> 00:45:00,160
Speaker 1: wrote my role, uh, and pretty much everybody that was

764
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,640
Speaker 1: in the film there, their stuff was written, you know, Um,

765
00:45:04,880 --> 00:45:07,000
Speaker 1: because a couple of the swings around later for you

766
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:09,680
Speaker 1: to do Cotton Club. Yeah, it was just the kind

767
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:13,120
Speaker 1: of afterthought, let's put you know, let's meet I think

768
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: Fred Rouse, who was you know, his producer. Yeah, he

769
00:45:17,880 --> 00:45:21,799
Speaker 1: they called me and just meet with me, and and

770
00:45:21,880 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: he said, when have you read it? A couple of

771
00:45:25,239 --> 00:45:29,000
Speaker 1: lines first, you know, And I didn't even meet Frances

772
00:45:29,080 --> 00:45:32,560
Speaker 1: that they or he might have been there. Now you

773
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:34,920
Speaker 1: go on and you make other films, and you do TV,

774
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,399
Speaker 1: and you're working with Richard Pryor, and you're working with

775
00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:42,120
Speaker 1: uh yeah, Solderberg. You know, Bruce Willis had done a

776
00:45:42,200 --> 00:45:44,719
Speaker 1: die Hard and I hoped, you know, yeah, I get

777
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:48,759
Speaker 1: to work with Blake Edwards and Richard Sunset bruns It

778
00:45:49,120 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: and Jim Ghanner and and I thought, there's gotta be

779
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,080
Speaker 1: a success, you know because all that you know, all

780
00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,240
Speaker 1: it takes is you're hitting in a in a film

781
00:45:56,280 --> 00:45:59,040
Speaker 1: that's a success. And then you just keep moving on

782
00:45:59,120 --> 00:46:01,520
Speaker 1: to those type of holmes. You know, they don't they

783
00:46:01,560 --> 00:46:04,200
Speaker 1: don't make you, you know, it helps go beg for

784
00:46:04,239 --> 00:46:08,680
Speaker 1: the Pennies anyway, never turned out for me, you know.

785
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:15,600
Speaker 1: Now recently, um, you got this Teddy Award from in

786
00:46:15,600 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: two thousand nine for LGBT. Is that something that's a

787
00:46:18,800 --> 00:46:24,719
Speaker 1: cause that's important to you? Nothing's ever important to me.

788
00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 1: It's just why do you think they chose you? I

789
00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:31,160
Speaker 1: don't know. I never figured. I guess because I have

790
00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,239
Speaker 1: a body of work that you know, they see that

791
00:46:33,560 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 1: sexual liberation and I've done a lot of things and

792
00:46:36,320 --> 00:46:40,560
Speaker 1: I was one of the first, you know, I was

793
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:47,319
Speaker 1: there before a lot of toll that. Uh. And you

794
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:50,920
Speaker 1: know the fact that me and Kim, we we get

795
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:53,879
Speaker 1: ourselves involved. You know, maybe I don't have a lot

796
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,000
Speaker 1: of money, but we get ourselves involved with taking care

797
00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,360
Speaker 1: of the homes right now. Um, you know we do.

798
00:47:01,440 --> 00:47:05,160
Speaker 1: We do all of this with my with my fans

799
00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:08,799
Speaker 1: participating in it too. And but Kim is the one

800
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:12,799
Speaker 1: that does the going out in the street and interacting

801
00:47:12,880 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 1: with them. She's pretty tough. Yeah, yeah, I can't tell her.

802
00:47:18,280 --> 00:47:21,920
Speaker 1: It can be dangerous, but she does some crazy. She's

803
00:47:21,960 --> 00:47:26,400
Speaker 1: a good partner. Yeah, she's mean. She's mean in fact,

804
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:28,680
Speaker 1: the way the reason I chose her in my life,

805
00:47:28,680 --> 00:47:31,480
Speaker 1: we we used to go to this program together and

806
00:47:32,560 --> 00:47:34,960
Speaker 1: she walked into the meeting and she had these lips

807
00:47:35,000 --> 00:47:38,120
Speaker 1: that went all the way down here touch in and

808
00:47:38,200 --> 00:47:41,720
Speaker 1: I said, nobody can be that angry. She just can't

809
00:47:41,719 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: be that angry. And I said, but she's the girl

810
00:47:44,280 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: for me, and we me the angriest girl in the

811
00:47:47,640 --> 00:47:53,080
Speaker 1: sp Where are your sons now? H Ones in Brooklyn

812
00:47:53,280 --> 00:48:01,200
Speaker 1: and doing um the Brooklyn one. H. I think he's

813
00:48:01,360 --> 00:48:06,680
Speaker 1: got an army for a family. Uh, Mikey, he's um.

814
00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,399
Speaker 1: He's always done hard labor. He's he's a tough man.

815
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: And and your other son, uh, Joe Jr. Please tell

816
00:48:19,480 --> 00:48:22,960
Speaker 1: me he has a pizza place, but he has a

817
00:48:23,000 --> 00:48:27,920
Speaker 1: lovely home in Pennsylvania, Pennsylvania. Did she shake your head Jack, Pennsylvania? Yeah,

818
00:48:28,040 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 1: she's shaking, yes, Okay, yeah, Pennsylvania. Has a house and

819
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,680
Speaker 1: he's he's separated from his wife, and he has a

820
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: son from the marriage that he's kept and he's raised.

821
00:48:41,440 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: My hat's off to him because he's done something that

822
00:48:43,960 --> 00:48:48,200
Speaker 1: his own father was incapable of doing, and he's doing

823
00:48:48,239 --> 00:48:50,480
Speaker 1: a real good job of it. You know, have you

824
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: found love in your life? Ah mm hmm as much

825
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: as you can love the The angriest woman the meeting

826
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:02,200
Speaker 1: with the mouth turned down. You know, she's been so

827
00:49:02,280 --> 00:49:05,040
Speaker 1: long in my life. Then, you know, I've always loved

828
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 1: and cared about her, you know, but she can be

829
00:49:08,200 --> 00:49:10,759
Speaker 1: He's so mean. I mean this morning she was ready

830
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:14,160
Speaker 1: to kill me again. She she came in to do

831
00:49:14,320 --> 00:49:17,160
Speaker 1: the paper work for me because I had to. I

832
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,799
Speaker 1: had to take a bath and a shave for this.

833
00:49:20,000 --> 00:49:23,160
Speaker 1: Uh sitting down even though there's no camera here's uh.

834
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: I don't know why I had to shave or get

835
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:28,040
Speaker 1: cleaned up. Could have came in her dirty good you

836
00:49:28,040 --> 00:49:32,879
Speaker 1: look pretty good anyway. So I got ready for this

837
00:49:33,000 --> 00:49:35,480
Speaker 1: and and she did my paper work this morning and

838
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:38,680
Speaker 1: got mad because it didn't you know, there was money missing.

839
00:49:38,760 --> 00:49:42,960
Speaker 1: And you know, you are this icon. I mean you

840
00:49:43,000 --> 00:49:46,160
Speaker 1: are like you are a piece of art. You are

841
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,040
Speaker 1: a work of art, and you and and and all

842
00:49:49,040 --> 00:49:50,839
Speaker 1: these people made money off you, and you're this work

843
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:55,759
Speaker 1: of art and you're like, you're like this male sexual ideal,

844
00:49:56,719 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: beyond James Dean, beyond Brad Pitt, beyond any of these

845
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:01,320
Speaker 1: but all the the god thing. But you're the greatest

846
00:50:01,520 --> 00:50:04,439
Speaker 1: guy that ever lived because you chopped the trees down

847
00:50:04,480 --> 00:50:07,000
Speaker 1: at the fucking detention center and then escaped and lived

848
00:50:07,000 --> 00:50:09,719
Speaker 1: in the woods. That's the guy in that picture. Did that.

849
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,840
Speaker 1: You are such a strange bird. You're a really odd bird.

850
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:18,200
Speaker 1: And I'm so grateful for you for doing the show.

851
00:50:18,239 --> 00:50:20,319
Speaker 1: I'm very very grateful for for doing this man, Thank

852
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:28,200
Speaker 1: you for taking the time. Director John Waters says Joe

853
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:35,080
Speaker 1: Delessandro quote forever changed male sexuality in cinema unquote knowing Delessandro,

854
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:37,759
Speaker 1: he didn't have to try that hard to do it.

855
00:50:38,480 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: After I talked with Joe in Los Angeles, I called

856
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: him up. He wanted to talk more about his relationship

857
00:50:44,920 --> 00:50:49,560
Speaker 1: with the LGBT community, and your relationship with that community

858
00:50:49,640 --> 00:50:52,440
Speaker 1: began where and how? I mean, I mean, the obvious

859
00:50:52,560 --> 00:50:58,120
Speaker 1: question is are you l g B or T well,

860
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: And I'm not any of those things. I don't think. No, Uh,

861
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:09,160
Speaker 1: you're a little Joe. I'm a little Joe basically. You know,

862
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:12,239
Speaker 1: I'm a kind of blank canvas, which you know, at

863
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:16,799
Speaker 1: least all my fans and people to project their fantasies

864
00:51:16,840 --> 00:51:21,960
Speaker 1: and desires on, you know. Like I had had a

865
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:26,319
Speaker 1: friend here that I watched TV with, you know, on

866
00:51:26,320 --> 00:51:30,600
Speaker 1: a regular basis, you know, on the the Game of Thrones,

867
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,760
Speaker 1: we were involved in watching that series, and he would

868
00:51:33,760 --> 00:51:36,800
Speaker 1: come over on a Sunday night he's a gay friend

869
00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:41,040
Speaker 1: for you know, many years. And and then one day, oh,

870
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, about six months ago, he decided that

871
00:51:45,560 --> 00:51:47,840
Speaker 1: I shouldn't be married to my wife, that I'm that

872
00:51:47,960 --> 00:51:54,759
Speaker 1: I'm gay, and that that we should live together. The

873
00:51:54,800 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 1: other thing is, you know, I've never made any kind

874
00:51:59,880 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: of declaration. Yeah, that he that I'm open for or

875
00:52:07,560 --> 00:52:11,160
Speaker 1: looking for a relationship with somebody other than my wife.

876
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,320
Speaker 1: And uh, well, I must say my brief encounter watching

877
00:52:14,400 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: TV into let's move in together is like so weird. Well,

878
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:20,960
Speaker 1: my my, I must say, my brief encounter with your

879
00:52:21,000 --> 00:52:22,920
Speaker 1: wife leads me to think that when he says you

880
00:52:22,920 --> 00:52:25,520
Speaker 1: should leave your wife and go living with him and

881
00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:28,280
Speaker 1: go marry him, that Kim might say, he's all yours.

882
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:32,480
Speaker 1: You can have him. Yeah, exactly, Yeah, I gotta I

883
00:52:32,480 --> 00:52:34,160
Speaker 1: gotta take the mail from the mail and hold on

884
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: one second. We can't. You can't stage that. That's perfect, Joe,

885
00:52:45,760 --> 00:52:47,239
Speaker 1: It's okay, while you just grabbed the mail, could you

886
00:52:47,280 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: hold on a second. I gotta go walk my dog.

887
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:53,759
Speaker 1: Can you hold on? Well, I mean, obviously you've had

888
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,399
Speaker 1: a sensitivity and you've had an openness to this from

889
00:52:56,480 --> 00:52:59,520
Speaker 1: day one when you first started working with all those

890
00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:01,879
Speaker 1: guys that are Arcy and and Andy and people you've

891
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:03,680
Speaker 1: made films worth because that was a very kind of

892
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:09,080
Speaker 1: sexually uh open minded crowd. And are there any groups

893
00:53:09,080 --> 00:53:11,400
Speaker 1: in particular that you have you know, when I was

894
00:53:11,520 --> 00:53:14,960
Speaker 1: when I was a real young kid, when I was

895
00:53:15,000 --> 00:53:18,040
Speaker 1: doing the car eating stuff and part of myself as

896
00:53:18,040 --> 00:53:21,520
Speaker 1: a tough guy, I would have wound up in prison

897
00:53:22,239 --> 00:53:25,120
Speaker 1: or or you know, for the rest of my life,

898
00:53:25,160 --> 00:53:27,799
Speaker 1: probably because I would have wound up killing somebody because

899
00:53:27,840 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 1: I was just so violent. And when I met the

900
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 1: wall people they brought me, you know, and a few

901
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:39,719
Speaker 1: gay friends, they calmed me down. They made me realize

902
00:53:39,760 --> 00:53:41,960
Speaker 1: that I didn't have to beat people up when I

903
00:53:42,080 --> 00:53:45,000
Speaker 1: saw them all the time, you know, I didn't have

904
00:53:45,040 --> 00:53:47,799
Speaker 1: to go off on something that somebody says to me.

905
00:53:48,680 --> 00:53:51,320
Speaker 1: And it took a little while, but you know it,

906
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:56,839
Speaker 1: finally I finally understood it. Are there any organizations in

907
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: particular that you've worked with closely or that you well

908
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: for many years? I was involved with a from many

909
00:54:05,280 --> 00:54:08,040
Speaker 1: many years. What about LGBT groups have you been involved

910
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,359
Speaker 1: with glad or I don't. I don't go out there

911
00:54:13,880 --> 00:54:16,879
Speaker 1: anything to do with sexuality. I don't you know right

912
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:21,640
Speaker 1: now there's nothing sexual about me, you know, so I

913
00:54:21,640 --> 00:54:26,200
Speaker 1: don't have a problem with my sexuality. You know, you

914
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:28,279
Speaker 1: get to a certain age, you know. I always used

915
00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:31,640
Speaker 1: to think when I was a younger man and I

916
00:54:31,680 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 1: couldn't get the thought of sex out of my head,

917
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: that that would never that obsession would never go away.

918
00:54:38,040 --> 00:54:40,480
Speaker 1: And uh, we used to have a meeting with my

919
00:54:40,560 --> 00:54:43,520
Speaker 1: sponsor once a week and we had a one of

920
00:54:43,520 --> 00:54:47,600
Speaker 1: our members he didn't have that obsession of mine, and

921
00:54:48,440 --> 00:54:51,000
Speaker 1: the other members that will come into the meeting, we

922
00:54:51,080 --> 00:54:54,160
Speaker 1: all we all kind of wondered why, why, why, And

923
00:54:54,160 --> 00:54:56,040
Speaker 1: then we come to find out, of course that he's

924
00:54:56,320 --> 00:54:58,919
Speaker 1: HIV positive and that's pretty much why he was able

925
00:54:58,960 --> 00:55:04,359
Speaker 1: to give it up. But I never thought the obsessive,

926
00:55:04,960 --> 00:55:08,759
Speaker 1: you know, obsessiveness about sex would ever go away. And

927
00:55:08,840 --> 00:55:12,040
Speaker 1: when it when one day it did, I was just

928
00:55:12,280 --> 00:55:16,360
Speaker 1: you know, so happy, you know that my mind didn't

929
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,520
Speaker 1: have to have to think about sex, you know, every

930
00:55:20,600 --> 00:55:24,959
Speaker 1: fifteen or thirty seconds. So that was you know, gave

931
00:55:25,040 --> 00:55:29,000
Speaker 1: freed me up for cartoons. You know, it kind of

932
00:55:29,520 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: bores bores me when I when I see because you know,

933
00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: I did all the sexual things in the in the

934
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: films and stuff. So when I see other people doing it,

935
00:55:38,080 --> 00:55:41,040
Speaker 1: it's nothing that turns me on in anyway. So you know,

936
00:55:41,080 --> 00:55:43,920
Speaker 1: I'd rather watch something else. I wouldn't rather watch the

937
00:55:43,960 --> 00:55:48,000
Speaker 1: cowboy on a horse, or or the spaceman flying with

938
00:55:48,080 --> 00:55:52,320
Speaker 1: his space shoes or something, you know, something that's total fantasy.

939
00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:54,400
Speaker 1: You know, you are someone who just is such a

940
00:55:54,520 --> 00:55:59,160
Speaker 1: striking presence. You know, your physical power, your masculinity, your

941
00:55:59,200 --> 00:56:01,600
Speaker 1: good looks and if of thing. And when you look back,

942
00:56:01,760 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: do you like that guy? Do you look at that

943
00:56:03,520 --> 00:56:05,600
Speaker 1: guy and go, yeah, he was. I don't see the

944
00:56:05,640 --> 00:56:08,239
Speaker 1: guy as me. That's what's so cool about it. When

945
00:56:08,280 --> 00:56:11,640
Speaker 1: I see that guy that that could be. You know,

946
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,240
Speaker 1: I think the guy that I see is very cool,

947
00:56:14,400 --> 00:56:16,400
Speaker 1: but I don't see it as me. The way I

948
00:56:16,480 --> 00:56:21,239
Speaker 1: live my life and everything, I never actually talked about uh,

949
00:56:22,080 --> 00:56:25,719
Speaker 1: acting or films with anybody here where you know, now

950
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:30,240
Speaker 1: reside and and do my little life thing here. Uh

951
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:34,319
Speaker 1: it's it's you know, it's cool that I had a

952
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:38,120
Speaker 1: chance to do do film and and I love I

953
00:56:38,200 --> 00:56:41,080
Speaker 1: love working at it. It's a real fun thing. But

954
00:56:41,719 --> 00:56:44,759
Speaker 1: the guy that is in front of the camera is

955
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:47,040
Speaker 1: not the same guy that I walk around with every

956
00:56:47,120 --> 00:56:49,919
Speaker 1: day he's somebody else. I don't know how I how

957
00:56:50,000 --> 00:56:55,759
Speaker 1: I do it, it's just um. Then the person that

958
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:58,359
Speaker 1: photographed me either has a different eye than I do,

959
00:56:58,440 --> 00:57:00,239
Speaker 1: because when I look in the mirror, I don't see

960
00:57:00,239 --> 00:57:08,160
Speaker 1: that same person. This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening

961
00:57:08,360 --> 00:57:15,520
Speaker 1: to here's the thing O