WEBVTT - Frida Kahlo: Painter, Icon, Genius 0:00:00.240 --> 0:00:02.960 Hey, everyone, We're coming to Salt Lake City, Utah, and Phoenix, 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:06.840 Arizona this fall. Yeah, October, we're gonna be at Salt 0:00:06.920 --> 0:00:09.959 Lake City's Grand Theater and then the next night October 0:00:10.600 --> 0:00:14.160 will be in Phoenix. And we added a second show 0:00:14.240 --> 0:00:17.200 to our Melbourne show, right, that's right, a second earlier 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:19.840 show in Melbourne. So you can get all the information 0:00:19.880 --> 0:00:22.200 for all of these shows at s y s K 0:00:22.400 --> 0:00:27.560 live dot com. Welcome to Stuff you should know from 0:00:27.560 --> 0:00:36.400 how Stuff Works dot com. Hey, and welcome to the podcast. 0:00:36.440 --> 0:00:38.960 I'm Josh Clark, and there's Charles W. Chuck Bryant, and 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:42.800 there's Jerry Rowland. This is going to be an interesting 0:00:42.840 --> 0:00:44.920 one because I don't know how to say the ladies. 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:48.400 Last ning, Jerry's over there with her spider monkey on 0:00:48.440 --> 0:00:52.519 her shoulder, a dead hummingbird hanging from her necklace, just 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:56.400 like any other day. We're here in Lakasa Azul, right, 0:00:56.480 --> 0:00:59.440 and she's gotten ahold of some eyebrow pencil and filled 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:02.080 in between the two across the bridge of our nose. 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:06.720 So I'm excited about this. A because you said frieda 0:01:06.760 --> 0:01:12.720 calo before we started recording freda Kalo, and B because 0:01:13.520 --> 0:01:17.480 you know my family's fascination with this woman in her work. No, 0:01:18.520 --> 0:01:20.560 we've talked about it before. That's okay. Though we've done 0:01:20.560 --> 0:01:24.480 a thousand episodes. We have talked about it before. Yeah, okay, 0:01:24.480 --> 0:01:27.240 well we'll get back into it. Yeah, we're way into Frieda. 0:01:27.319 --> 0:01:31.760 Emily is borderline obsessed? Is she a freedom maniac? She is? 0:01:32.720 --> 0:01:35.720 And my daughter loves her. You know, there's like Frieda 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:38.440 I hate to use the word, but kind of cults 0:01:39.160 --> 0:01:43.959 devotional groups where um they basically dress up and and 0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:49.520 are like Frieda. It's like channel Frieda Kalo. Yeah, because 0:01:50.080 --> 0:01:52.560 as one of these articles that we sourced from points 0:01:52.560 --> 0:01:55.559 out near the end um, not only does she draw 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:59.560 in people for her art, but she draws in uh 0:01:59.640 --> 0:02:04.520 femineis and she draws in women who have suffered miscarriages 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:09.680 and and disabled people who have suffered great pain and 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:13.160 chronic pain in their life. So she through her life 0:02:14.000 --> 0:02:17.520 she's able to um touch a lot of people because 0:02:17.560 --> 0:02:20.440 of her life. And I'm sure with any artist where 0:02:20.760 --> 0:02:22.640 if you know, the more you know about the artist, 0:02:22.680 --> 0:02:27.120 the more you can appreciate their art. With freed to Klo, 0:02:27.200 --> 0:02:31.680 it's almost like you gotta quit saying that Freda Calo Carlo. Carlo, 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:35.560 my whole life have been saying free to Kyla, and 0:02:35.560 --> 0:02:37.560 I like it rules off the tongue. Yeah, but you know, 0:02:37.639 --> 0:02:41.320 let's give her the due respect. Um the when did 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.680 we start doing that? I don't know. Okay, so um, 0:02:45.840 --> 0:02:50.040 you almost you just almost can't fully appreciate any piece 0:02:50.040 --> 0:02:53.280 of her work without knowing at least the basics of 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.359 her story. I think, well, yeah, and certainly once you 0:02:55.440 --> 0:02:59.000 know the basics, you're like, oh right, that's where all 0:02:59.000 --> 0:03:02.600 this comes from. It really makes sense. But she is 0:03:02.639 --> 0:03:04.960 a great artist, for sure. I was going back and 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.239 looking at some of her art. You know, I'm familiar 0:03:07.280 --> 0:03:09.600 with her, I know a little bit about her. Um, 0:03:09.720 --> 0:03:12.120 but I definitely saw some pieces that I didn't realize before. 0:03:12.120 --> 0:03:14.800 And just from researching this, I very much came to 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.320 appreciate her even more. Like she's a great artist. Just 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.919 the technique she used, the imagery she used, the symbolism, 0:03:21.919 --> 0:03:25.639 I really dig it all. And it's like you can 0:03:25.680 --> 0:03:29.120 appreciate it because it gives you a visceral reaction, but you, 0:03:30.360 --> 0:03:33.280 the average person, can also get what she's feeling or 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:35.880 what she's saying without being like this means this, and 0:03:35.960 --> 0:03:38.840 that means that she just kind of get it visually. 0:03:39.520 --> 0:03:43.839 It's something that you can get and appreciate pretty easily. Yeah. 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.080 I mean we've we've seen her work in museums all 0:03:47.080 --> 0:03:49.680 over the world. Basically every new city we go to, 0:03:49.840 --> 0:03:53.360 we see, is there any free to color work there? 0:03:53.520 --> 0:03:56.440 Have you been to Lakasa Zul? No, But that'll that's 0:03:56.560 --> 0:03:58.440 that's gonna happen. Oh, I'm sure. I was gonna say 0:03:58.480 --> 0:04:01.080 bucket list, but it's just on the list. I'm like, 0:04:01.160 --> 0:04:02.760 I don't want to do it when I'm eighty, right 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:06.800 with with um Jack Nicholson or something. No, Morgan Freeman, 0:04:06.840 --> 0:04:09.080 No, no no, No, we're gonna go down there for sure. Alright, 0:04:09.120 --> 0:04:12.360 So let's let's start chronologically. Let's start at the beginning. 0:04:12.480 --> 0:04:16.599 That makes sense. So Freeda kalo Um she was born 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:19.320 back in nineteen o seven, although she used to being 0:04:19.320 --> 0:04:21.680 a revolutionary. She used to say that she was born 0:04:21.680 --> 0:04:24.200 in nineteen ten, which was the year of the Mexican Revolution. 0:04:24.640 --> 0:04:26.640 But she was born in a town which was very 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.440 freed to. Yeah, freed to call thing to do? Right. Um. 0:04:30.520 --> 0:04:34.040 She was born in town called the Koyoa Khan which 0:04:34.080 --> 0:04:36.680 is outside of Mexico City, and she was born in 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:40.080 that house Lacasa Zul the Blue House. Yeah, maybe maybe 0:04:40.080 --> 0:04:42.760 not there. There's a lot of um parts of her 0:04:42.800 --> 0:04:45.720 early life, like the year she was born where other 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:48.960 people say, like, man, she's actually born nearby, but she 0:04:49.040 --> 0:04:52.200 says she was born there, so uh, like her birth 0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:56.359 records indicated a different place, but it's we'll say she 0:04:56.440 --> 0:04:58.200 was born there at the very least it was her 0:04:58.200 --> 0:05:02.000 family's house, right, and she it was. It was in 0:05:02.080 --> 0:05:05.000 her life for her whole life, so much so she 0:05:05.040 --> 0:05:08.200 actually died in that house. Yeah. And it's a museum now, 0:05:08.320 --> 0:05:11.159 yes it is. It's a national museum dedicated to free 0:05:11.160 --> 0:05:15.520 to Carlo cret Cool. We can visit, right. So, um, 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.080 she was born in nineteen o seven they've figured out, 0:05:18.160 --> 0:05:20.760 apparently you figured out. And her father was he German 0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.160 or Hungarian? Because I saw both. Well, here's another little 0:05:24.200 --> 0:05:29.560 thing where he was German. He was born in Germany, 0:05:30.120 --> 0:05:33.080 but Freed always said that he was of Hungarian Jewish descent, 0:05:33.640 --> 0:05:37.000 but that just doesn't appear to be true like ancestry 0:05:37.080 --> 0:05:40.960 gen genealogy records. So was he like German Protestant or something? 0:05:41.600 --> 0:05:49.000 Uh German? Um? Uh? What Lutheran? Lutheran? I think that's Protestant, 0:05:49.080 --> 0:05:51.280 I think I think so, but I think I think 0:05:51.279 --> 0:05:55.760 it was Lutheran. I can't remember. But his name, depending 0:05:55.800 --> 0:05:58.960 on it was Carl Wilhelm. But when he traveled to 0:05:59.000 --> 0:06:02.880 Mexico and the eight eighteen hundreds, he changed his name. 0:06:03.240 --> 0:06:07.360 He took the translation. The Spanish translation was original German name, 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:10.200 which would have been Guillermo. Apparently it's a great name, 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:15.799 will though. Yeah, and then he became a Mexican citizen 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:21.480 and married her mother, Matilda Calderon, who was um American 0:06:21.520 --> 0:06:24.720 Indian in Spanish. Yeah, and we should say Frieda. Frieda's 0:06:24.720 --> 0:06:28.280 full name is Magdalena Carmen Frieda Calo. He called her 0:06:28.279 --> 0:06:31.680 own great name. It is really there's a lot to 0:06:31.760 --> 0:06:35.760 it there. Basically gives you everything you want, right, that's right. 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.760 So um, she was born in when someone else I 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.440 came to admire from researching her. As her father, he 0:06:42.440 --> 0:06:44.520 seemed to have been a pretty cool cat. He was 0:06:44.560 --> 0:06:47.000 a really good dad. Her mom was a little bit 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:54.240 religiously hysterical, I think, and very strict, But her dad 0:06:54.279 --> 0:06:58.200 was a bit of a foil in that he raised Frieda. 0:06:58.800 --> 0:07:02.400 He noticed something in freed To It seems that she 0:07:02.520 --> 0:07:05.480 was different from her sisters, which she screamed, I mean 0:07:05.600 --> 0:07:08.040 just like she dressed in men's suits and things like that. 0:07:08.080 --> 0:07:10.640 She was definitely different than her sisters. But he saw 0:07:10.800 --> 0:07:13.120 in her something very much different than her sisters, not 0:07:13.160 --> 0:07:16.400 just in her outward behavior, and so he kind of 0:07:16.440 --> 0:07:21.080 plucked her out of the path that his sisters were on, 0:07:21.120 --> 0:07:24.440 which was, you know, go get married, or go being 0:07:24.840 --> 0:07:28.160 educated into convent, Go get married, go be a wife, 0:07:28.520 --> 0:07:31.160 and said, you you're going to go a different path. 0:07:31.680 --> 0:07:34.200 Let's get you in a different school here. Yeah. He 0:07:34.240 --> 0:07:37.720 was a photographer, so her first experiences with art were 0:07:38.600 --> 0:07:41.040 accompanying him on photo shoots and being in the studio 0:07:41.040 --> 0:07:43.440 with him. And like you said, he sent her to 0:07:43.560 --> 0:07:48.200 the German College in Mexico City, where she was introduced 0:07:48.240 --> 0:07:53.679 to European things, and um, very sadly she was sexually 0:07:53.680 --> 0:07:58.400 abused there. Uh, and then ended up going to and 0:07:58.440 --> 0:08:00.560 I think was one of the first, one of only 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:05.040 thirty five girls, young girls to go to the National 0:08:05.080 --> 0:08:08.960 Preparatory School in Mexico because that was right around the 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:11.200 time in the Mexican Revolution. He said, maybe we should 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:15.160 start letting young women in here. Yeah. And then doctor, Yeah, 0:08:15.240 --> 0:08:18.040 she excelled in in biology and some others and Moz 0:08:18.040 --> 0:08:20.560 on a path to become a doctor actually. But one 0:08:20.640 --> 0:08:24.120 of the other things that she discovered at the UM, 0:08:24.480 --> 0:08:29.160 the Preparatory Academy of Mexico City was a real zeal 0:08:29.360 --> 0:08:34.400 for the Mexican revolutionary spirit. Yeah. I mean, not only 0:08:34.880 --> 0:08:36.960 did she learn about Europe, but she got really into 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:40.480 learning about her indigenous roots. Yeah. Um, that seems to 0:08:40.480 --> 0:08:43.600 be something that fascinated her throughout her life, was her 0:08:43.800 --> 0:08:47.760 her European and her Mexican roots and how they combined 0:08:47.800 --> 0:08:50.880 in her and she explored them outwardly as well. She 0:08:50.960 --> 0:08:53.960 even had a painting called roots. Oh yeah, kind of 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.120 on the nose, uh and roots were growing out of 0:08:57.120 --> 0:09:01.520 her body even yeah, um we we kind of skipped 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.040 over one very important thing in her life. When she 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:09.960 was six, Um, she contracted polio and long recovery permanently 0:09:10.000 --> 0:09:12.080 damaged one of her legs. She had a very one 0:09:12.120 --> 0:09:14.600 of her legs was I think her right leg was 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:18.320 smaller and just very skinny, a little withered. Yeah, and 0:09:18.400 --> 0:09:21.760 she had a permanent limp from that age, which was 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.559 a big deal. It was just the beginning of a 0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:31.160 lifetime of pretty horrendous um physical disabilities. In pain. Yeah, 0:09:31.160 --> 0:09:33.600 she was alive on the planet for forty seven years 0:09:34.320 --> 0:09:37.920 and starting at age six. You say that's when polio, 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:41.280 She bet, that's when it began, at the at the 0:09:41.480 --> 0:09:44.600 at the latest, it started at six and continued all 0:09:44.600 --> 0:09:47.440 the way up to forty seven when she died. So 0:09:47.640 --> 0:09:51.600 at the in this kind of revolutionary group that she joined, um, 0:09:51.760 --> 0:09:56.120 the cachas, which means the caps are the hats, which 0:09:56.120 --> 0:10:02.400 apparently today is Narco slang for cops. You know, kutchukas cachuchas. 0:10:02.840 --> 0:10:06.160 It's hard to say, yeah, because of the two. Is 0:10:08.480 --> 0:10:13.520 it's like Jason's coming or something. Um. She she fell 0:10:13.559 --> 0:10:15.440 in love with kind of the leader of that group, 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.400 but really like she found herself as a revolutionary, right 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.439 and not just a Mexican revolutionary. She also became a 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:27.000 communist ideologist and was for life. That's one thing that 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.400 a lot of people don't realize is free to free 0:10:29.440 --> 0:10:33.800 to Carlo, this pop culture icon, this patron saying of 0:10:33.800 --> 0:10:39.520 of women, UM and feminists, was also very much a 0:10:39.640 --> 0:10:43.720 fervent communist. Actually, she referred to her husband later Diego Rivera, 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:47.640 who you're about to mention um as nobody's husband. He 0:10:47.720 --> 0:10:49.800 was a lousy husband, but he was a great comrade. 0:10:50.440 --> 0:10:54.160 This is a great quote. Yeah. So that's when she 0:10:54.200 --> 0:10:58.800 fell in love with Alejandro Gomez Eddias and uh they 0:10:58.840 --> 0:11:01.680 were together for about five years. And we'll get to 0:11:02.559 --> 0:11:04.240 kind of what happened toward the end of that relationship 0:11:04.280 --> 0:11:07.800 in a sec but Ino and she was just fifteen. 0:11:07.840 --> 0:11:11.480 She was at school, uh, at the preparatory school, and 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:15.000 Diego Rivera, who was very famous artist, a muralist at 0:11:15.000 --> 0:11:20.440 the time, already this giant man, um like Alfred Molina's size, 0:11:20.800 --> 0:11:23.840 that's who played him, Um, even bigger, I think. Yeah. 0:11:23.880 --> 0:11:26.560 He was huge. Uh and you know, just tall and 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:33.760 rotund and just a big personality and everything. Sure. Yeah. Um. 0:11:33.840 --> 0:11:36.640 He was painting a mural at her school called Creation 0:11:36.960 --> 0:11:38.760 when she was just fifteen, and she would go out 0:11:38.760 --> 0:11:42.600 there and just basically kind of stare at him and 0:11:42.679 --> 0:11:45.640 while he was doing his work and sort of became 0:11:45.640 --> 0:11:50.120 infatuated with him and the art. I get the picture 0:11:50.200 --> 0:11:54.040 that it was all sort of intertwined, and uh, you know, 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:56.880 years later they would meet and marry and then remarry, 0:11:56.880 --> 0:11:59.560 which we'll get into the ins and outs of their 0:11:59.600 --> 0:12:03.440 relation chip, but it was it was an interesting love 0:12:03.520 --> 0:12:07.360 story of sorts. Artists. You know, yeah, should we take 0:12:07.400 --> 0:12:10.000 a break? All right, let's take a break, and we 0:12:10.040 --> 0:12:14.200 will talk about the tragic events that befel her at 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:36.960 the age of eighteen. Okay, Chuck, So, like you said, 0:12:37.000 --> 0:12:39.960 something really bad is about to happen to Frida. She's eighteen. 0:12:40.440 --> 0:12:42.240 She's on a bus with a boyfriend who was the 0:12:42.320 --> 0:12:48.160 leader of the Yeah, and um, the the bus was 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.240 struck by a trolley, or vice versa. She was on 0:12:51.280 --> 0:12:54.160 a trolley struck by a bus, one of the two 0:12:54.520 --> 0:12:58.760 in either way. It was a bad, bad scene for her. Yeah, 0:12:59.000 --> 0:13:02.120 she was impaled by one of the handlebars. It went 0:13:02.120 --> 0:13:04.640 through pelvis into her womb, That's how I saw it. 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:09.440 Put broke her spine. Um, she was in a bad way. 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:14.080 And supposedly her boyfriend walked away unharmed, which just makes 0:13:14.080 --> 0:13:16.480 it even worse, you know, Yeah, I mean the way 0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:18.559 I got it was that, you know, everyone was shaken 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.600 up pretty bad. But it was this sort of freak 0:13:21.720 --> 0:13:26.959 thing that this rail impaled her hip that that she 0:13:27.080 --> 0:13:29.000 got the worst of it. Now, this would go on 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:32.920 to be, in my opinion, the most significant event of 0:13:32.960 --> 0:13:37.520 her entire life, because it would it changed everything. It 0:13:37.640 --> 0:13:40.400 changed the course of everything. Remember, up to this point, 0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:44.320 she's planning on becoming a doctor. Um, and she was 0:13:44.480 --> 0:13:47.600 so laid up for so long and so immobilized that 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:50.760 she basically said, well, there goes my chance of being 0:13:50.760 --> 0:13:52.800 a doctor. I'm not going to be able to catch up. 0:13:52.840 --> 0:13:54.280 I'm not gonna be able to move. Who knows if 0:13:54.280 --> 0:13:58.200 I'll be able to walk again. Um, And it just 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.679 shifted direction. Plus that whole womb thing is going to 0:14:01.800 --> 0:14:04.679 come into play later on and that will definitely influence 0:14:04.679 --> 0:14:08.839 her art for sure too. Yeah. So she's um, she's 0:14:08.960 --> 0:14:12.800 bedridden for months. I think she had something like thirteen 0:14:12.880 --> 0:14:15.920 or fifteen surgeries from that point on for the next 0:14:15.920 --> 0:14:21.160 like thirty years. Um. And it turns out that she 0:14:21.360 --> 0:14:24.680 was a great painter, which must have been something to 0:14:25.040 --> 0:14:28.680 be like, well, I'm in this hospital bed that they're 0:14:28.720 --> 0:14:32.080 equipping me with this special easel that I can use 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:35.040 in my full body cast lying down. They're gonna put 0:14:35.040 --> 0:14:38.960 a mirror on on the ceiling above me so I 0:14:38.960 --> 0:14:41.840 can be my own model. And she was very much 0:14:41.880 --> 0:14:46.120 known for her self portraits. And she starts painting and 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:50.600 is amazingly talented. Yeah. And at first she she was saying, Okay, 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.440 well I can't be a doctor, and apparently I have 0:14:52.520 --> 0:14:55.520 this knack for painting. Maybe I'll be a medical illustrator. 0:14:55.680 --> 0:14:57.640 And once you hear that, when you see some of 0:14:57.680 --> 0:15:00.280 her work, you're like, oh, yeah, she basically he was 0:15:00.360 --> 0:15:07.360 a medical illustrator. Yeah, but in a exploring anatomy as 0:15:07.400 --> 0:15:11.400 a metaphor for emotion. Yes, from what I understand, right, Yeah, 0:15:11.400 --> 0:15:15.480 I mean, I don't know. I mean, this might be 0:15:15.600 --> 0:15:17.800 hyperbolic to say this, but I don't know if any 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:23.000 artists that poured herself out on the canvas as much 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.760 as she did. Certainly not up to the point, especially 0:15:26.840 --> 0:15:30.560 female artists. Yeah, absolutely, up to this point when when 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:35.960 Frieda Kello came along, like women were if you were emotional, 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:39.600 you were hysterical one. But you certainly weren't if you 0:15:39.640 --> 0:15:42.920 were a woman artist, you certainly weren't expected to explore 0:15:43.360 --> 0:15:48.880 emotions and grief and personhood and the self, and you 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.520 certainly weren't expected to do it in your paintings. And 0:15:51.600 --> 0:15:55.520 she said her works showed that that was not the case. 0:15:55.720 --> 0:15:58.000 It wasn't even like you shouldn't do this, it was 0:15:58.040 --> 0:16:00.960 women can't do this. She him along and said, and 0:16:01.000 --> 0:16:03.720 actually we can, because I'm living proof. Yeah. And if 0:16:03.720 --> 0:16:07.360 you're a man, you're just a brooding artist. Yeah. If 0:16:07.400 --> 0:16:11.240 you're a woman, you're hysterical. Um, you're depressed. And she 0:16:11.400 --> 0:16:15.200 just man, she laid it out there as raw as 0:16:15.240 --> 0:16:18.560 you can imagine, and especially for the time, it was 0:16:18.600 --> 0:16:21.920 just off the charts, how radical it was so so 0:16:22.040 --> 0:16:24.160 And she's able to do this because her family set 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:27.120 up a special easel in a mirror for her to 0:16:27.280 --> 0:16:30.720 be her own model. Yes, right, yes, so this is that, 0:16:30.840 --> 0:16:32.440 this is a big thing, like this is starting to 0:16:32.520 --> 0:16:36.080 come along and she she um passes the time while 0:16:36.120 --> 0:16:39.040 she's recuperating doing this, and she recovers enough that she 0:16:39.120 --> 0:16:41.120 goes back to school and starts hanging out with her 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:45.440 old friends again. And from that re entry back into 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.920 the revolutionary slash communist world in Mexico at the time, 0:16:50.600 --> 0:16:54.520 she ended up in the orbit of Diego Rivera again. Actually, 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.320 they ran across each other at a party. Yeah, and 0:16:57.360 --> 0:16:59.840 this was it. Man. From that point forward, they would 0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.760 be um. They would be tied to one another through 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:08.320 their work and through their multiple marriages to one another. Uh. 0:17:08.480 --> 0:17:12.719 She was twenty two, he was twenty years older than her. Uh, 0:17:13.119 --> 0:17:16.000 and he very much Um, he may he very much 0:17:16.080 --> 0:17:20.840 encouraged her early on and champion her and was her 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.320 mentors and artists. Was She went up to him at 0:17:23.480 --> 0:17:25.720 at this party and said, I want you to look 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.280 at my work and tell me should I pursue this? 0:17:28.359 --> 0:17:31.120 To see this? Am I an artist? Or is this 0:17:31.400 --> 0:17:34.600 just nothing? And he looked at her work and he said, 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:38.600 you were an artist. This is astounding, Like do you 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.240 have what it takes? And you should keep pursuing being 0:17:41.240 --> 0:17:44.200 an artist in as a matter of fact, let's get married. Yeah. 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:46.399 I mean he was attracted to her, but um, I 0:17:46.400 --> 0:17:49.199 haven't seen anything that that led me to believe that 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.800 any of his support of her work was not genuine 0:17:52.880 --> 0:17:55.359 and because he wanted to like get her in the sack. No, no, no, 0:17:55.560 --> 0:17:57.600 he wasn't that kind of guy. He would get anybody 0:17:57.640 --> 0:17:59.480 in the sack. He certainly didn't have to marry you. 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:00.960 And he's said, we didn't have to tell you you 0:18:01.000 --> 0:18:03.880 were a great artist. That is below him. I saw 0:18:03.920 --> 0:18:06.879 a thing. Yeah, they both had multiple affairs. We'll talk 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.440 about that throughout their marriage. And you know, maybe or 0:18:10.480 --> 0:18:14.119 maybe not so understanding of each other doing so. Um, 0:18:14.160 --> 0:18:17.480 but I saw one point that he supposedly got his 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.040 doctor to write a note that said that he was 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:26.439 physically incapable of being faithful. Really, I don't know if 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:28.920 that's true or not. So he had I just want 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:30.920 to get this quote, and he had a great quote 0:18:30.960 --> 0:18:34.520 about her um as an artist. He said that she 0:18:34.720 --> 0:18:38.159 was a realist as far as her arts concerned. She 0:18:38.320 --> 0:18:40.639 was quote the first woman in the history of art 0:18:40.720 --> 0:18:44.680 to treat with absolute and uncompromising honesty. One might even 0:18:44.680 --> 0:18:50.200 say cruelty those general and specific themes which exclusively affect women. Yeah, 0:18:50.359 --> 0:18:53.000 like that's those are pretty strong words from a renowned 0:18:53.080 --> 0:18:55.679 artist who I mean, Diego Rivera was well renowned by 0:18:55.720 --> 0:18:58.239 this time already, So when he looked at her art 0:18:58.320 --> 0:19:00.159 and had things like that to say about it, it 0:19:00.200 --> 0:19:02.680 really meant something. She was. If she ever was an 0:19:02.680 --> 0:19:06.760 outsider artist, she wasn't anymore. She was a genuine artist. 0:19:07.040 --> 0:19:10.880 She'd been decreed as such by the cream of the crop. Yeah, 0:19:10.960 --> 0:19:13.960 and she um. I think the article on her own 0:19:14.000 --> 0:19:18.200 website down plays a little bit her successes during her life. 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:21.800 It's certainly nothing compared to what she got many many 0:19:21.880 --> 0:19:25.080 years later, decades later after her death. Um. They weren't 0:19:25.119 --> 0:19:28.800 freedom maniacs back then, but she wasn't she also was 0:19:28.840 --> 0:19:33.119 not just completely unknown as an artist. I mean she 0:19:33.240 --> 0:19:36.879 got some notoriety during her life. She got to know Picasso, 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:38.960 she got to know I mean, these were the circles 0:19:38.960 --> 0:19:43.120 she traveled in, partially because of Diego Rivera. But um, 0:19:43.160 --> 0:19:47.119 they started moving around, you know, starting in the nineteen thirties. Uh, 0:19:47.160 --> 0:19:49.240 they didn't stay in Mexico. They lived in San Francisco 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.879 for a little while, Uh, depending on where the work was. 0:19:51.920 --> 0:19:54.119 Because he was a muralist, right, so he had to 0:19:54.160 --> 0:19:56.399 go to the place where he was doing that. Yeah, exactly. 0:19:56.400 --> 0:19:58.520 He can't say I'm gonna send you a mural, just 0:19:58.680 --> 0:20:01.720 tape tape it up. S me a wall. And he 0:20:01.880 --> 0:20:05.600 had her in tow which I get the impression like 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:08.480 sometimes she was a willing accomplice and other times she 0:20:08.720 --> 0:20:12.200 was very much homesick for Mexico. Yeah, she for sure 0:20:12.280 --> 0:20:16.480 miss Mexico. I know she did enjoy her time in 0:20:16.520 --> 0:20:17.919 like in New York and said, I don't know if 0:20:17.960 --> 0:20:21.719 she loved Detroit. I don't know if he didn't. They 0:20:21.760 --> 0:20:24.080 moved to Detroit while he worked for the Detroit Institute 0:20:24.080 --> 0:20:27.320 for the Arts, but very famously in the nineteen thirties 0:20:27.320 --> 0:20:29.840 they lived in New York City when Diego Rivero was 0:20:29.840 --> 0:20:32.880 commissioned by Nelson Rockefeller, who in the movie The Great 0:20:32.880 --> 0:20:37.680 Movie by Julie Taymore and Samahayak was played by Edward Norton. 0:20:38.240 --> 0:20:41.280 Oh really, yeah, have you not seen that movie? Man? 0:20:41.320 --> 0:20:45.679 It's good and once you hear the h especially with 0:20:45.720 --> 0:20:48.840 the backstory now with the Weinstein stuff coming out. I mean, 0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:52.439 this was her passion, Samahaiaks, passion project for her life, 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:57.280 and uh, he put her through a living hell. It's horrifying. 0:20:57.280 --> 0:20:58.639 I think it was. It might have been in New 0:20:58.680 --> 0:21:00.600 York or New York Times had a great iCal about it. 0:21:00.640 --> 0:21:04.000 But um or that she wrote, I think, But um, 0:21:04.040 --> 0:21:05.800 I think what got me on that was Edward Norton 0:21:06.400 --> 0:21:10.280 was he rewrote the script for like for free because 0:21:10.280 --> 0:21:13.239 basically one of the Harvey's pick things was like, I'm 0:21:13.240 --> 0:21:15.480 not gonna give you any money for this, Like you 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:18.320 gotta do it for almost nothing. Everyone's gonna have to 0:21:18.320 --> 0:21:20.679 work for free. So she got everyone to work for 0:21:20.680 --> 0:21:24.040 free or you know scale Uh from Edward Norton to 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:28.000 Julie Taymore, the Great director, and um he he demanded 0:21:28.040 --> 0:21:33.760 a lesbian sex scene like literally was like, I'm not 0:21:33.800 --> 0:21:37.080 doing this unless you do that. And uh, she was bisexual, 0:21:37.160 --> 0:21:39.600 so it wasn't like he created this out of thin air. 0:21:40.400 --> 0:21:42.880 But he's like, I want to see this on screen. Um. 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:46.439 She supposedly had affairs with George O'Keefe and Josephine Baker 0:21:47.080 --> 0:21:50.920 and all these famous female performers and artists, but she 0:21:51.240 --> 0:21:53.280 did not do that. I think she. I think she 0:21:53.320 --> 0:21:55.480 had a kissing scene with Ashley Judd at a party. 0:21:55.640 --> 0:21:58.159 Who is actually Judd supposed to be? I can't remember. 0:21:59.560 --> 0:22:02.000 I wou'd see it in a minute. Emily's mad that 0:22:02.040 --> 0:22:04.240 she's not here right now. I told her about this 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:05.800 last night. She's like, why am I not on? It's 0:22:05.840 --> 0:22:09.800 like we don't have guests. She's like, I'm a guest 0:22:09.800 --> 0:22:11.480 on Movie Crush. I was like, well that's a different 0:22:11.800 --> 0:22:16.240 podcast altogether. Yeah. Um, she will pick this apart, trust me. 0:22:16.680 --> 0:22:18.560 But anyway, she had a devil of a time getting 0:22:18.560 --> 0:22:20.480 that movie made. Uh, and it went on to great 0:22:20.480 --> 0:22:24.200 success and I think still is the highest grossing art 0:22:24.240 --> 0:22:26.560 based movie of all time. Yeah, that's what I saw. 0:22:27.720 --> 0:22:30.200 So anyway, they were in New York City because Nelson 0:22:30.280 --> 0:22:34.720 Rockefeller displayed Byward. Norton had commissioned Diego Rivera to paint 0:22:35.320 --> 0:22:38.800 a mural at Rockefeller Center called Man at the Crossroads, 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:43.119 and in it it was one of these big um 0:22:43.400 --> 0:22:46.600 almost looked like a Sergeant Pepper's cover, you know, people 0:22:46.640 --> 0:22:50.600 all over the place. And Um, he snuck in Vladimir 0:22:50.680 --> 0:22:53.720 Lenin in the painting. So I have a question about that. 0:22:53.800 --> 0:22:55.720 Did he sneak it in and was caught or was 0:22:55.800 --> 0:22:58.119 he like And also, by the way, I've included this 0:22:58.160 --> 0:23:03.040 great man Lenin, he snuck it in um as a response. Uh, 0:23:03.520 --> 0:23:07.040 it's a very pointed response to something. And I can't 0:23:07.040 --> 0:23:10.320 remember exactly what it was, but it wasn't originally in 0:23:10.359 --> 0:23:11.600 the plan and I don't know if it was in 0:23:11.600 --> 0:23:14.240 the original sketch. I might be getting this slightly wrong, 0:23:14.440 --> 0:23:17.359 but at any rate, he got linen in there, and 0:23:17.640 --> 0:23:20.960 um Rockefeller was not happy. I mean, I think it 0:23:21.000 --> 0:23:23.679 was more of his family, like he he stayed, his 0:23:23.760 --> 0:23:26.440 friend wasn't like. He was like, I hate you your 0:23:26.480 --> 0:23:31.360