WEBVTT - Encore: Lori and Guy Answer Your Questions 0:00:03.400 --> 0:00:07.160 Hey, fellow travelers. I'm Lari Gottlieb. I'm the author of 0:00:07.200 --> 0:00:09.480 Maybe You Should Talk to Someone, and I write the 0:00:09.520 --> 0:00:11.760 Dear Therapist's Advice column for The Atlantic. 0:00:11.960 --> 0:00:15.280 And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid, 0:00:15.600 --> 0:00:18.079 and I write the Dear Guy Advice column for TED. 0:00:18.480 --> 0:00:20.480 And this is Dear Therapists. 0:00:21.040 --> 0:00:23.799 Each week we invite you into a session so you 0:00:23.840 --> 0:00:26.200 can learn more about yourself by hearing how we help 0:00:26.280 --> 0:00:29.240 other people come to understand themselves better and make changes 0:00:29.280 --> 0:00:29.960 in their lives. 0:00:30.200 --> 0:00:32.840 So sit back and welcome to today's session. 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:37.840 First, a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only. 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.199 It does not constitute medical or psychological advice and is 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.640 not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment. 0:00:45.200 --> 0:00:47.920 Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional, 0:00:48.040 --> 0:00:50.720 or other qualified health provider with any questions you may 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:54.800 have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter, 0:00:54.840 --> 0:00:57.240 you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part 0:00:57.360 --> 0:00:59.480 or in full, and we may edit it for length 0:00:59.480 --> 0:01:02.680 and clarity. In the sessions you'll hear. All names have 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:05.840 been changed for the privacy of our fellow travelers. 0:01:07.319 --> 0:01:10.039 Hey Guy, Hey Laurie. So today we're going to do 0:01:10.080 --> 0:01:11.520 something a little bit different. 0:01:11.920 --> 0:01:12.360 That's right. 0:01:12.480 --> 0:01:14.920 Recently we did a live event where we got to 0:01:15.000 --> 0:01:17.880 share how we do these your therapist sessions every week 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.440 and what we're really thinking when we're trying to help 0:01:20.480 --> 0:01:22.240 all of you through the issues that you bring us. 0:01:22.480 --> 0:01:25.240 We also dipped into our mailbox and gave advice to 0:01:25.280 --> 0:01:28.280 some letters you sent us. So this week here's a 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:37.240 treat Deotherapists Live. You're listening to Deotherapists from iHeartRadio. We'll 0:01:37.280 --> 0:01:38.840 be back after a quick break. 0:01:46.160 --> 0:01:47.800 I'm Lori Gottlieb and I'm. 0:01:47.680 --> 0:01:49.800 Guy Wench, and this is Deotherapists. 0:01:54.080 --> 0:01:56.960 My name is Janet Gattis. I am the owner and 0:01:57.000 --> 0:02:02.120 founder of Avid Bookshop here in Athens, Georgia. Welcome, good evening, 0:02:02.360 --> 0:02:05.160 and welcome to our very special event with Guy Wench 0:02:05.280 --> 0:02:09.520 and Laurie Gottlieb from the podcast Dear Therapists. Both of 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:14.200 these people are stellar therapists, hosts of their own podcast, 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.200 and have written multiple books. 0:02:17.720 --> 0:02:19.000 First off, I. 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:21.239 Am so excited that the new season of Dear Therapists 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.760 just launched. As of yesterday, already heard the episode twice 0:02:25.760 --> 0:02:28.959 and as with every other episode of the show that 0:02:29.000 --> 0:02:32.880 I've heard. I'm really curious to know sort of the 0:02:32.919 --> 0:02:36.720 background of how you to process the number of letters 0:02:36.720 --> 0:02:38.400 you get, how many letters you get, and how you 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:41.120 choose ultimately what gets on the show. Would you guys 0:02:41.160 --> 0:02:42.040 answer that for us? 0:02:43.120 --> 0:02:45.399 Well, first of all, just thank you for doing this 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:48.560 and having us. We were so excited to have this conversation, 0:02:49.080 --> 0:02:55.000 especially launch week. We get so many letters, and going 0:02:55.040 --> 0:02:57.919 into season two, one of the things we've always said 0:02:57.960 --> 0:03:01.640 is what made season one so great, or the quality 0:03:01.720 --> 0:03:05.239 of the letters that we got from people all over 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.679 the world. We wish we could do all of them. 0:03:07.880 --> 0:03:10.520 It would be great. We would just have a million episodes, 0:03:10.960 --> 0:03:14.040 But we really pick letters that we feel have some 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:16.800 universal quality to them. So while each letter is very 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:20.600 specific to a situation, like in the first episode it 0:03:20.680 --> 0:03:24.480 was about Instagram cheating, it really was about so many 0:03:24.520 --> 0:03:26.760 other things and I think you'll find that in every 0:03:26.919 --> 0:03:29.760 single episode. The one thing that's interesting about it is 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.360 that we don't actually discuss the letters. So even though 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:36.200 we will choose letters, we don't actually know before we 0:03:36.600 --> 0:03:39.640 start talking on that episode what we're going to be 0:03:39.720 --> 0:03:42.400 talking about. We don't say we think this might happen 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.800 in this episode, or let's discuss how we think about 0:03:44.800 --> 0:03:45.280 this letter. 0:03:45.400 --> 0:03:46.440 We don't do any of that. 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.240 We act like someone has just walked into our therapy 0:03:49.320 --> 0:03:51.880 room and we're hearing this for the very first time. 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:54.600 And I think that's what makes the show so dynamic 0:03:54.800 --> 0:03:57.200 is that it's not scripted. There's no agenda that we 0:03:57.280 --> 0:04:00.320 have in mind beforehand. We're just like, here's the letter. 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:02.520 We have no idea what's going to happen. The audience 0:04:02.560 --> 0:04:05.320 has no idea what's going to happen, and here we go. 0:04:05.680 --> 0:04:07.960 And by the way, that's what makes it scary also 0:04:08.080 --> 0:04:10.160 for us, you know, a therapist, because we're there, we 0:04:10.400 --> 0:04:12.640 really don't know what the other person is thinking. We 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:15.040 don't know where it's going to go. The actual session 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:16.719 might go in a very different direction. 0:04:16.839 --> 0:04:19.840 Oh my gosh, that's exciting. Had either of you done 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.280 sort of therapy with a therapeutic partner before, Like, how 0:04:23.279 --> 0:04:26.120 did you go about knowing who's going to speak when 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.960 and what kind of feedback you would give in tandem? 0:04:29.839 --> 0:04:33.880 We don't. That's what's. 0:04:34.440 --> 0:04:35.560 We don't at all. 0:04:35.640 --> 0:04:38.040 I mean, but I think that that's what's so great 0:04:38.200 --> 0:04:40.800 is that when so what a lot of people might 0:04:40.839 --> 0:04:44.679 not know is that when therapists train, often you get 0:04:44.839 --> 0:04:47.400 feedback in a certain way on your session, So some 0:04:47.440 --> 0:04:50.760 people might be behind a one way mirror, or you 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.000 tape your sessions and record them and you bring them 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.359 to your supervisor. All of this, of course with the 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.960 consent of the client, but once you're in private practice, 0:04:59.000 --> 0:05:01.640 you don't get that anyway. Really, And one of the 0:05:01.640 --> 0:05:03.880 things that's so interesting about working with Guy is to 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.920 see how he works. He makes me a better therapist. 0:05:08.040 --> 0:05:10.760 I think watching a direction he goes, or where I 0:05:10.839 --> 0:05:13.360 might get stuck somewhere, He'll jump in, and vice versa. 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:16.039 I think if he is sort of going somewhere and 0:05:16.120 --> 0:05:18.440 the person is stuck there, I'll jump in. And so 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:21.599 we really tag team really well. Even though we can't 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:23.880 read each other's minds. Even if sometimes I think where 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:26.800 is he going with this, I'm confident that wherever he's 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:28.640 going is too an important place. 0:05:29.320 --> 0:05:32.039 And I can say that I've many times over this 0:05:32.160 --> 0:05:34.200 past you know, a year and a half since we 0:05:34.279 --> 0:05:37.960 started working together, in my own sessions that I do 0:05:38.080 --> 0:05:41.160 in my own private practice, I'll get to a moment 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:43.920 where I literally say to myself in my head, I'm 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:45.640 going to do a lor here, and then I do 0:05:45.680 --> 0:05:47.280 a thing that I think Lauri would do because I 0:05:47.320 --> 0:05:49.800 was I think that's a good place, and she does 0:05:49.839 --> 0:05:52.400 that thing. Well, I'm going to do Lauri here, and 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:54.479 I have that in my head. Many times I'm like, yep, 0:05:54.560 --> 0:05:58.160 thank for a LORI right there. That's great. 0:05:58.160 --> 0:06:01.080 One thing that I find really out about it is 0:06:01.640 --> 0:06:04.760 that I was just texting a friend about this last night, 0:06:04.800 --> 0:06:08.599 about recommending episodes of season one for her, and one 0:06:08.600 --> 0:06:10.560 of the things I pointed out was that even if 0:06:10.640 --> 0:06:13.680 the name of the episode and the description sound like 0:06:13.800 --> 0:06:16.680 this person, I don't have any strange daughter, I don't 0:06:16.680 --> 0:06:18.120 have any kids at all, I'm not going to get 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:20.599 a lot out of this episode. Every single episode there 0:06:20.600 --> 0:06:25.200 are these gems and takeaways that are impacting me, a single, 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:27.480 forty one year old woman who doesn't have any kids. 0:06:27.520 --> 0:06:30.960 So it's just really interesting to me how you can 0:06:31.040 --> 0:06:33.560 tell very much that you too are hyper focused on 0:06:33.600 --> 0:06:37.440 the client in the virtual room, yet so many of 0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:40.120 the things that you share are really applicable to so 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.400 many of us. And that brings me to a question 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:47.520 about sort of how the pandemic has affected the sorts 0:06:47.560 --> 0:06:50.400 of therapy you do in dear therapists or in your 0:06:50.440 --> 0:06:53.080 private practices. I know that the show launched sort of 0:06:53.480 --> 0:06:56.479 as COVID was a thing in the world, but how 0:06:56.520 --> 0:06:59.760 have you noticed the nature of people's concerns or worries 0:07:00.240 --> 0:07:02.680 letters shift over the last year or so. 0:07:03.760 --> 0:07:05.799 Well, I just want to say before we talk about 0:07:05.800 --> 0:07:09.360 COVID that what you were saying earlier about how applicable 0:07:09.520 --> 0:07:14.520 each episode is to everyone, because relationships are relationships in 0:07:14.560 --> 0:07:17.720 the world. Whether it's relationship to self, relationship to friends, 0:07:17.760 --> 0:07:21.960 to family, to siblings, to romantic partners, to bosses to coworkers, 0:07:22.160 --> 0:07:25.280 they're all relationships. And so I remember in season one, 0:07:25.320 --> 0:07:28.080 early on, we had a couple on and this was 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.280 a married couple, they had kids, they'd been married for 0:07:30.320 --> 0:07:33.040 a while, and this young woman in her early twenties 0:07:33.040 --> 0:07:35.600 wrote in and she said, I'm not married yet, I 0:07:35.640 --> 0:07:38.880 don't have kids yet, but I use the advice with 0:07:39.040 --> 0:07:42.240 my boss at work and it was amazing. And so 0:07:42.360 --> 0:07:44.520 I think that that's the kind of response that we've 0:07:44.520 --> 0:07:46.320 been getting all through season one and we hope to 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:49.320 continue through season two. Is that even if you look 0:07:49.320 --> 0:07:51.120 at the title of the episode and you say, well, 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:54.160 that's not my situation, I would really encourage people to 0:07:54.200 --> 0:07:56.520 listen to the episodes because our goal in putting them 0:07:56.520 --> 0:08:00.840 out there is to make these sessions accessible to everyone. 0:08:00.920 --> 0:08:03.720 Not everybody can or wants to go to a therapist, 0:08:04.160 --> 0:08:06.680 but you can get so much out of one conversation 0:08:06.800 --> 0:08:10.840 if you see yourself in some element of the struggle, 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:13.800 and a lot of it is the things that you 0:08:13.840 --> 0:08:16.520 can use in your daily life, no matter who you are, 0:08:16.640 --> 0:08:19.480 how old you are, what your situation is, and that's 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:20.520 what we love about the show. 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.960 And as therapists, we're trained to ask questions such as, so, 0:08:25.120 --> 0:08:27.600 why are you doing the thing that you're doing, or 0:08:27.640 --> 0:08:30.480 what are you hoping to achieve? Or how did that 0:08:30.520 --> 0:08:32.840 get set up for you in your earlier relationships or 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:36.000 in your childhood, And then that is crafted around a 0:08:36.040 --> 0:08:38.840 specific issue perhaps, but the question is relevant in a 0:08:38.880 --> 0:08:41.440 much more general way, and people hear that and they're 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:44.280 asking ourselves that question in the context of their own lives. 0:08:44.280 --> 0:08:46.640 And that's why you can learn a lot from it, 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:50.040 because it's really about how to think about yourself, how 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:52.920 to think about your situation, how to think about your patterns, 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.040 how to think about the impact of earlier experiences, And 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.959 that's generalized as to everyone. 0:08:58.600 --> 0:09:02.679 Truly, So thinking keeping all that in mind, does that 0:09:02.720 --> 0:09:06.640 mean that maybe COVID era letters maybe weren't all that 0:09:06.840 --> 0:09:09.479 different at heart from what you had been getting previously. 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.280 I think they weren't that different. I mean many of 0:09:13.280 --> 0:09:17.040 them touched on how COVID was impacting these people, whether 0:09:17.080 --> 0:09:19.360 it was in a marriage, or we had a teacher 0:09:19.440 --> 0:09:21.800 who couldn't be with her students and how that was 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:26.120 impacting her. Whatever people were going through before the pandemic 0:09:26.320 --> 0:09:29.959 was amplified. So if they were, if a relationship was 0:09:30.040 --> 0:09:33.560 very strong, it got stronger. If a relationship was struggling, 0:09:33.679 --> 0:09:36.400 or things were not discussed. This really came to light 0:09:36.559 --> 0:09:39.240 during COVID. Really, what we're dealing with is just the 0:09:39.320 --> 0:09:42.240 human condition. And yes, there are going to be big 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.240 events like COVID or you know, other things that happened, 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.200 But really what we're dealing with is how do we 0:09:48.240 --> 0:09:52.880 deal with the daily stuff of life. 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:56.440 And speaking of people's personal stories, both of you in 0:09:56.480 --> 0:10:00.120 your talks and your books and occasionally in interviews I've 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:03.280 I heard you'll reveal personal things about your own lives. 0:10:03.480 --> 0:10:06.960 How do you decide what you want to reveal to 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.559 an audience where you don't know who's there, and how 0:10:09.559 --> 0:10:12.720 do you sort of ride the line of being someone 0:10:12.760 --> 0:10:15.520 like I'd never met you until today, but I trust 0:10:15.559 --> 0:10:18.160 you both very much. But until you saw my face, 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:19.760 you would never have known who I was passing you 0:10:19.800 --> 0:10:22.000 on the street. How do you balance that role of 0:10:22.240 --> 0:10:24.800 where people feel like they know you, but you really 0:10:24.800 --> 0:10:27.240 are still just a therapist to them, Like, how does 0:10:27.280 --> 0:10:29.720 that play out in your careers in different aspects. 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:33.080 It's funny because in Maybe You Should talk to Someone. 0:10:33.080 --> 0:10:35.600 In my most recent book, I follow the lives of 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:38.520 four very different patients, and then there's a fifth patient 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:41.360 in the book who is me as I go through 0:10:41.360 --> 0:10:44.240 my own therapy with my therapist, and I say at 0:10:44.280 --> 0:10:47.440 the beginning of the book that my greatest credential is 0:10:47.440 --> 0:10:50.160 that I am a card caring member of the human race. 0:10:50.240 --> 0:10:51.720 That I know what it's like to be a person 0:10:51.720 --> 0:10:53.920 in the world, and I didn't want to present myself 0:10:53.960 --> 0:10:56.080 as sort of the expert up on high. And I 0:10:56.080 --> 0:10:59.640 feel like that translates over into the podcast, because you know, 0:10:59.720 --> 0:11:02.640 we're sitting here talking about our personal lives in the podcast, 0:11:02.880 --> 0:11:07.360 but we use our personal experience to connect with people 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:10.640 on a very human level. We obviously are using our 0:11:10.679 --> 0:11:14.640 training and our expertise and everything that we have learned 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:18.199 as therapists, but we're also relating to people just human 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.000 to human, and I think that's what makes the episode 0:11:21.080 --> 0:11:24.080 so compelling, and I think that's what makes therapy so compelling. 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:26.600 It's an interesting thing. People will come up to me 0:11:26.679 --> 0:11:29.640 sometimes will recognize me from either Ted Talks or the 0:11:29.640 --> 0:11:32.840 podcast or writing or different things, and they will come 0:11:32.920 --> 0:11:34.679 up to me as if, as you said, is if 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.000 they know me when I don't know them, and this 0:11:37.160 --> 0:11:41.000 in essence, they don't really know me. But it's there's 0:11:41.080 --> 0:11:43.960 something that I So far in my experience, people have 0:11:44.559 --> 0:11:48.120 been very respectful. They feel a certain affinity, a certain 0:11:48.160 --> 0:11:50.800 fondness because if they heard something it might have touched 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.679 them or it might have resonated with them. We've been 0:11:53.760 --> 0:11:55.560 very fortunate in that way. At the second speak to 0:11:55.600 --> 0:11:58.360 my experience that when that does happen, when I do 0:11:58.440 --> 0:12:00.000 pass people in the street and they stop me, or 0:12:00.040 --> 0:12:04.280 in a restaurant, an airport, once in the gym in 0:12:04.320 --> 0:12:05.800 the shadow but that's a different one, and. 0:12:08.880 --> 0:12:15.120 In the broad department of a department store just like why. 0:12:15.400 --> 0:12:17.600 But thankfully it's been friendly and so those are okay, 0:12:18.440 --> 0:12:19.680 Oh my gosh, it's funny. 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:21.440 Yeah, and maybe you should talk to someone. 0:12:21.520 --> 0:12:24.680 I say that therapists are like Dalist celebrities, you know, 0:12:24.760 --> 0:12:28.079 it's kind of like the only people to whom they are, they're. 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:29.440 Like, oh my gosh, you know who that is? Who 0:12:29.480 --> 0:12:30.560 I just saw in the restaurant. 0:12:30.840 --> 0:12:33.360 Is the people who have come to see us, right, 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.320 or the people who maybe read our books or listen 0:12:36.360 --> 0:12:37.079 to podcast. 0:12:37.520 --> 0:12:38.080 I don't you know. 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.720 Obviously from the podcast you don't see us, so you 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:44.559 only hear our voices. But I've actually had people recognize 0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.000 my voice from across a restaurant. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:47.960 Maybe I'm just a loud talker. I don't know. 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:50.839 But like guys said, I think people, I think they 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.960 feel a connection because they've been moved very personally in 0:12:55.000 --> 0:12:59.240 these very intimate conversations by something that we've put out there. 0:12:59.320 --> 0:13:01.440 And so that's I think incredibly meaningful to us. 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:04.360 We appreciate the fact that we have touched somebody's life 0:13:04.360 --> 0:13:04.880 in that way. 0:13:05.080 --> 0:13:05.840 That's beautiful. 0:13:06.000 --> 0:13:11.120 And speaking of that again, writing the line between really 0:13:11.120 --> 0:13:14.280 knowing someone versus only interacting with them. On this one episode, 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:18.800 I've been really curious about the letter writers who end 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:22.280 up being featured on the show. What is that the 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:24.800 vetting process like in order to figure out if yes, 0:13:24.840 --> 0:13:27.280 this is the letter writer we want, and then what 0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.840 kind of conversations and things do they need to keep 0:13:29.840 --> 0:13:32.760 in mind when they are putting their voices out there, 0:13:32.800 --> 0:13:36.199 even if they are kind of masking identifying details. 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:39.480 What people need to know, especially people who are writing 0:13:39.520 --> 0:13:43.439 in is that, as in a therapy session, you can 0:13:43.480 --> 0:13:45.720 come with issue A, but everything has to be on 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:48.160 the table because if we think issue A is related 0:13:48.200 --> 0:13:50.000 to other things, we want to be able to explore 0:13:50.040 --> 0:13:51.679 those things and we want to be able to ask 0:13:52.440 --> 0:13:55.840 questions about those things. And therapy is a very non 0:13:55.880 --> 0:13:59.080 linear process. Its zigzags all over the place because connections 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:02.959 are made in patents identified by doing that, and that's 0:14:03.120 --> 0:14:07.400 kind of what we do within the podcast, And so 0:14:07.760 --> 0:14:11.640 we edit out any identifying information, So people use pseudonyms 0:14:12.040 --> 0:14:15.400 in that way. I think people can remain anonymous, but 0:14:15.600 --> 0:14:18.199 they have to be able to truly open their hearts 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:20.320 as you do when you go to therapy. 0:14:21.400 --> 0:14:25.200 I really appreciate how in the shows we can't see 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.080 you two or the person you're speaking with, but you 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.560 both do a really good job of saying like, I 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.040 see your eyes are filling with tears, or you looked 0:14:33.040 --> 0:14:35.160 away from us just then. But yeah, I just really 0:14:35.240 --> 0:14:36.880 love those moments where you kind of let us have 0:14:36.920 --> 0:14:39.720 a peek into what's going on for that client. 0:14:40.680 --> 0:14:43.440 We say that as much for the audience as we 0:14:43.480 --> 0:14:46.280 do for the person that we're talking to. So sometimes 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.000 people don't even realize that they're tearing up, so we 0:14:49.080 --> 0:14:51.440 want to have them slow down in that moment. Say 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.000 I notice that you're tearing up. What are you feeling 0:14:54.080 --> 0:14:57.280 right now? What just came up for you? Because people 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:00.480 will just go right over that because they don't want 0:15:00.520 --> 0:15:03.800 they don't want to notice that, and we want to 0:15:03.840 --> 0:15:05.560 slow them down so that they do notice it. So 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:09.400 because something important just happened there. If they smile, sometimes 0:15:09.440 --> 0:15:12.200 people don't even notice that they experienced joy or that something, 0:15:12.320 --> 0:15:14.240 you know, something really resonated with them. So say, I 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.600 noticed you smiling there, so I think that that resonated 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.640 with you. So it's for both. It's actually what we 0:15:19.680 --> 0:15:21.600 would do in a regular therapy session too. 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:22.760 I like that a lot. 0:15:22.840 --> 0:15:25.200 I know, even in I won't spoil it for anyone 0:15:25.240 --> 0:15:27.760 who's not already heard the first episode of season two 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:30.560 there's a moment there where I was surprised by what 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.200 you observed in the letter writer, and I hadn't expected 0:15:34.200 --> 0:15:36.680 you to say you saw on her face what you saw, 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.960 And that was kind of a fascinating moment to hear 0:15:39.000 --> 0:15:41.400 her saying, kind of reflect on what you're bringing up. 0:15:41.440 --> 0:15:42.840 I really appreciated that. 0:15:43.160 --> 0:15:45.440 My mom is here at this event too, and she 0:15:45.480 --> 0:15:49.720 and I listened to on season one, Jeff's critical parents 0:15:50.280 --> 0:15:53.480 on the way back from a road trip, and I 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:56.600 very am, very thankful I have great parents who are 0:15:56.600 --> 0:15:59.040 not critical of me and are positive. But it was 0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.320 fascinating to listen into that with her. And then afterward 0:16:02.560 --> 0:16:07.480 I realized that that storyline echoed in several loved ones 0:16:07.520 --> 0:16:08.880 in my life, so I was able to send that 0:16:08.960 --> 0:16:11.359 episode to them. But I think that one in particular, 0:16:11.760 --> 0:16:14.360 I remember hearing the moments where you're pointing out how 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:17.920 he's reacting in the moment. I think you also do 0:16:17.960 --> 0:16:20.320 such a great job for the audience. I know it's 0:16:20.320 --> 0:16:22.400 for the client, but it helps us a lot when 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:26.000 you kind of catch like the tone someone's using with himself, 0:16:26.160 --> 0:16:29.240 or the way that he's speaking about a certain scenario, 0:16:29.320 --> 0:16:31.240 and how the roles are changing. I just find it 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.840 so fascinating. So a lot of all of us are 0:16:34.880 --> 0:16:37.600 made up of stories. And Guy and I were talking 0:16:37.640 --> 0:16:40.720 a little bit before we started recording about how he 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:45.200 worked as a bookseller. I think as an adolescent. Laurie 0:16:45.280 --> 0:16:47.160 has done a thing that we linked to on our 0:16:47.200 --> 0:16:50.600 Instagram a couple weeks ago written an article on bibliotherapy, 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.360 which is the process of using books and the written 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.600 word to help people get better in touch with themselves 0:16:56.600 --> 0:16:59.440 and their emotions. Can you talk a little bit about 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:03.440 some books that you have recommended for particular clients and 0:17:03.560 --> 0:17:04.920 why it's. 0:17:04.800 --> 0:17:08.679 Really wonderful When you have a book in mind that 0:17:08.760 --> 0:17:11.879 you think would be really useful for a specific person, 0:17:11.920 --> 0:17:13.840 it always feels like, oh, I have the perfect thing 0:17:13.880 --> 0:17:16.679 for you. One book that I recommend a lot to 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.280 expecting parents who are expecting for the first time is 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.840 a book called Welcome to the Club one hundred Parenting 0:17:24.880 --> 0:17:29.240 Milestones You Never saw coming. It's by a comic called 0:17:29.320 --> 0:17:34.520 Rakeldia Piece. She's actually an Emmy Award winning writer. But 0:17:34.640 --> 0:17:38.600 it's a wonderful book because it's hilarious, but it's about 0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:42.800 everything that goes wrong, and the idea there is that 0:17:43.400 --> 0:17:48.280 parents are so terrified to bring home this baby for 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.199 the first time, and they think that anytime they do 0:17:51.240 --> 0:17:54.480 something wrong, it's terrible, and they don't realize that everyone 0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.080 goes through it, and all parents make all these mistakes, 0:17:57.320 --> 0:18:01.800 and in the humor it normalizes, it humanizes, and I 0:18:01.800 --> 0:18:04.399 find that people when they read that, it just lows 0:18:04.440 --> 0:18:07.920 their anxiety tremendously by the humor of it. So that's 0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:09.679 one book I love recommending. 0:18:11.720 --> 0:18:15.679 I actually never thought I would become a therapist growing up, 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:19.000 but I was an avid reader. And how this relates 0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:22.600 to your question is that I always found that novels 0:18:23.400 --> 0:18:25.720 were the really good ones, the ones that I would 0:18:25.720 --> 0:18:27.960 think about, the ones I would reread at different stages 0:18:28.000 --> 0:18:32.480 of my life, really had these deep psychological truths embedded 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:34.960 in them. And that's what made for the kinds of 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:39.120 characters that really lived inside of you. And I think 0:18:39.160 --> 0:18:41.200 when you're reading a novel and you have those moments 0:18:41.200 --> 0:18:44.840 of that's me, I see myself. I'm not alone, and 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:46.880 you think you were the only person who felt that, 0:18:46.960 --> 0:18:50.760 did that, thought that, and this character does things, says 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:51.680 the same things. 0:18:52.440 --> 0:18:54.479 It's such an amazing moment of connection. 0:18:54.560 --> 0:18:56.399 And that's what books have always been for me, and 0:18:56.440 --> 0:18:59.200 so later when I became a therapist, I was always 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:01.840 recommending books. Even in my training when they said, oh, 0:19:01.880 --> 0:19:04.639 don't recommend books. You can't do that because you're supposed 0:19:04.640 --> 0:19:07.560 to be very neutral, and I was always like, are 0:19:07.640 --> 0:19:11.280 you crazy, Like you know, books are therapy, and that's 0:19:11.280 --> 0:19:13.680 why I wrote that New York Times piece about bibliotherapy. 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:18.280 So I really tailor my book suggestions to the particular person. 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.080 It's something that comes up in the moment where. 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:22.959 You know, I'm like an encyclopedia with books, and so 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:25.200 someone says the thing, I'm like, wait a minute, stop, 0:19:25.240 --> 0:19:27.280 if there's this book you have to read. So for me, 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:31.399 it's less nonfiction than it is great novels. But I 0:19:31.440 --> 0:19:35.840 will recommend nonfiction if there's something particular, like someone's struggling with, 0:19:36.080 --> 0:19:37.480 you know, some of the themes even that we see 0:19:37.520 --> 0:19:40.199 on the podcast, but also in the therapy room, estrangement 0:19:40.840 --> 0:19:45.040 partners who maybe have some characteristics of personality disorders, or 0:19:45.080 --> 0:19:47.800 family members who do books about In fact, guy just 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:50.480 recommended a great book on We just taped an episode 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:54.400 for season two where he recommended a book on anxiety 0:19:54.800 --> 0:19:57.920 to the person and she found it so useful even 0:19:58.200 --> 0:20:01.479 just starting the book that first week. So books can 0:20:01.560 --> 0:20:05.520 be incredibly healing and informative at the same time. 0:20:06.160 --> 0:20:07.919 By the way, the book the Loid just Reference is 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:12.400