WEBVTT - Sleep and Supplements 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:04.800 Anyone that comes over to Shapi Low's residents. By the way, listeners, 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:08.039 that's our ship name, Shapiro Low's. If you come over 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:10.000 to our house, there's a few cupboards you could open 0:00:10.080 --> 0:00:12.520 up if you're like looking for a wine cup or whatever. 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:16.480 That just supplements are going to come poor house. 0:00:16.640 --> 0:00:19.079 Well, you know, eight percent of Americans use some sort 0:00:19.079 --> 0:00:23.840 of sleep aid, according to the National Center of Sleep Statistics. 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:27.320 And Nielsen says that we spend over a billion. Yeah, baby, 0:00:27.440 --> 0:00:31.760 that's a billion with a B dollars a year on 0:00:32.280 --> 0:00:33.920 melatonin alone. 0:00:34.080 --> 0:00:34.239 WHOA. 0:00:34.400 --> 0:00:36.520 People will do just about anything to get a good 0:00:36.600 --> 0:00:37.280 night's sleep. 0:00:37.600 --> 0:00:38.400 It's the whole thing. 0:00:38.640 --> 0:00:41.680 Hey, it's Katie Low's and I'm Adam Shapiro and this 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:46.080 is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia 0:00:46.159 --> 0:00:48.320 in partnership with Mattress Firm. 0:00:48.840 --> 0:00:51.120 On this episode, we want to talk about nutrition and 0:00:51.200 --> 0:00:55.000 fitness and quality sleep. Let's just call it the holistic 0:00:55.040 --> 0:00:55.960 health triangle. 0:00:56.400 --> 0:01:01.840 We are busy people, actors, entrepreneurs, parents, podcast hosts, and 0:01:02.000 --> 0:01:05.440 sleep is like really really important to us. 0:01:05.640 --> 0:01:08.800 Yes, And because our health and our families health is 0:01:08.880 --> 0:01:12.560 so important. That's why I've been looking forward to this episode. 0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:17.240 Our guests include doctor Chris Winter, a sleep neurologist and 0:01:17.319 --> 0:01:18.959 scientist who has authored. 0:01:18.640 --> 0:01:20.440 Two books about sleep. 0:01:20.800 --> 0:01:24.360 Chris is at the forefront of research and studies about 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:27.080 the science behind sleep supplements. 0:01:27.520 --> 0:01:28.480 Welcome Chris. 0:01:28.840 --> 0:01:31.360 I'm excited to be back. This is a fantastic topic. 0:01:31.440 --> 0:01:34.479 Chris advises a lot of athletes and professional sports teams 0:01:34.480 --> 0:01:37.240 on how quality sleep can help maximize performance. 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:39.640 Yes, and I even understand that you worked with my 0:01:39.760 --> 0:01:42.400 hometown heroes, the Philadelphia Phillies. 0:01:42.680 --> 0:01:46.600 And Danielle la Fata is also with us. She's director 0:01:46.720 --> 0:01:52.160 of Performance Nutrition for the Phoenix Suns. She figures out 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.160 what these top athletes need to be eating to be 0:01:55.240 --> 0:01:57.960 their best and making sure that they get good quality 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:00.320 sleep so that they can return to the play offs 0:02:00.400 --> 0:02:04.200 again next year. Welcome Danielle, so nice to meet you. 0:02:04.520 --> 0:02:05.960 It's nice to meet you guys as well. 0:02:05.960 --> 0:02:06.880 Thank you for having me. 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.000 Thank you so much Danielle and Chris for being here 0:02:10.080 --> 0:02:14.880 to talk about sleep and supplements, which is a hot 0:02:15.120 --> 0:02:18.799 button topic amongst me and all my mom friends and 0:02:18.880 --> 0:02:20.560 my mom herself included. 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.920 Chris, We're gonna get started with you, nutrition, fitness, sleep. 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:28.000 Let's talk about the holistic health triangle. 0:02:28.200 --> 0:02:30.680 As I recall my high school geometry, is this an 0:02:30.760 --> 0:02:32.239 equilateral triangle? 0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:34.560 Hold on a second, Adam, you took high school geometry 0:02:34.560 --> 0:02:35.919 and you remember any of it? 0:02:36.040 --> 0:02:38.400 Yes? I did, Katie, Okay, I didn't say I did 0:02:38.440 --> 0:02:39.000 well in it. 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:41.960 Chris, tell us about this holistic health triangle. 0:02:42.280 --> 0:02:45.120 I always think about it as four legs of a table, 0:02:45.160 --> 0:02:51.639 so I'm more of a quad guy. I think about exercise, nutrition, mindfulness, 0:02:52.400 --> 0:02:56.400 and then sleep. I think mindfulness really starts with trying 0:02:56.440 --> 0:03:00.480 to understand not only your own sleep and maybe issues 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:03.160 you may be having with your sleep, but also the 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:06.360 emotion that you're bringing with it. Those are sort of 0:03:06.400 --> 0:03:09.400 my four I think. You know, if you take one 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:11.679 of those legs away, the table collapses. 0:03:12.200 --> 0:03:14.760 Chris, how do you define sleep supplements? 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.320 I think the best way to define supplement is something 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:22.320 that's taking a process that's hopefully already pretty healthy and 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:24.840 making it even a little bit more healthy. So what 0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.760 we're looking at is a biochemical reaction that starts from 0:03:27.760 --> 0:03:30.680 the time we ingest food to the point we're actually 0:03:30.720 --> 0:03:33.639 making chemicals in our brain that support sleep. Serotone and 0:03:33.680 --> 0:03:36.440 melatone and dopamine or rexin. There's a bunch of them, 0:03:37.000 --> 0:03:40.120 and along each pathway you're taking the proteins in milk 0:03:40.160 --> 0:03:42.240 and breaking them down to an amino acid. That trip 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:44.840 to fan gets converted into something else, and eventually you 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:48.000 get melatonin. And there's all these steps and all these 0:03:48.040 --> 0:03:51.800 cofactors and minerals that are important to support that process. 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:54.080 And for an elite athlete like Danielle's working for, that 0:03:54.600 --> 0:03:58.680 matters a tremendous amount. But if you're listening to this thinking, oh, 0:03:58.760 --> 0:04:00.440 how much magnism do I need to get so I 0:04:00.440 --> 0:04:03.080 can get some sleep, there's a reason why we don't 0:04:03.080 --> 0:04:07.240 call them treatments. We understand very clearly how these things 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.480 are best used and where they're not going to be 0:04:09.480 --> 0:04:10.280 particularly helpful. 0:04:10.440 --> 0:04:15.080 And Danielle, you help manage all three or even four 0:04:15.120 --> 0:04:18.599 of these, which Chris has mentioned the mindfulness part. The 0:04:18.640 --> 0:04:21.480 three I'm talking about are the nutrition, fitness, and sleep 0:04:21.760 --> 0:04:24.479 you manage. These were top athletes who compete at their 0:04:24.480 --> 0:04:28.039 physical and mental best. Let's just like get into this. 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:29.800 Do you recommend supplements? 0:04:30.120 --> 0:04:30.400 Yes? 0:04:30.480 --> 0:04:30.800 I do. 0:04:31.040 --> 0:04:35.159 I am still food first, supplement second, but I always 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:39.080 talk about being smart with our supplementation. Chris can talk 0:04:39.120 --> 0:04:41.160 to this a little bit more, right, they're also phases 0:04:41.200 --> 0:04:43.200 of sleep. Are you having a hard time falling asleep 0:04:43.279 --> 0:04:45.880 or are you having time staying asleep? And so then 0:04:45.920 --> 0:04:50.200 that's where food, nutrition, hydration at a potential supplement could 0:04:50.200 --> 0:04:53.240 come in. So just really understanding what's going on and 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:54.000 what's needed. 0:04:54.279 --> 0:04:58.320 What would you say are the connections between nutrition and 0:04:58.640 --> 0:04:59.320 quality sleep. 0:05:00.040 --> 0:05:03.400 Well, it's finding that sweet spot for people where you 0:05:03.400 --> 0:05:06.159 can have a light snack one to two hours before 0:05:06.200 --> 0:05:09.200 going to bed if needed. When I speak with my athletes, 0:05:09.400 --> 0:05:11.640 whether it's my bench guys, and they didn't play very 0:05:11.680 --> 0:05:14.520 many minutes, but they still had a warm up, and 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.479 they still went in earlier in the morning, and they're 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:18.479 still not going to bed until one or two o'clock 0:05:18.520 --> 0:05:19.159 after the game. 0:05:19.560 --> 0:05:20.760 They still need to eat. 0:05:20.960 --> 0:05:23.320 So maybe it's more of an in between meal, not 0:05:23.520 --> 0:05:26.400 so much as a real heavy dinner, but it's not 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.279 a light snack somewhere in between for them, whereas my 0:05:29.360 --> 0:05:32.320 starters or my high minutes players. 0:05:32.920 --> 0:05:34.800 Yes, they'll need to eat post game. 0:05:34.880 --> 0:05:37.320 So it's explaining to them that because they're like, oh, 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.480 I shouldn't eat late at night, I can't eat late 0:05:39.520 --> 0:05:42.400 at night. Well, you've been active for the last five 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:44.279 six hours and now you're not going to go to 0:05:44.360 --> 0:05:47.160 sleep for another couple hours because you're all revveed up. 0:05:47.240 --> 0:05:50.000 So it's looking at each individual and seeing where you're 0:05:50.040 --> 0:05:53.279 at your physical activity or non activity throughout the day, 0:05:53.640 --> 0:05:56.160 and how we could adjust your meal patterning. 0:05:56.360 --> 0:06:00.160 I'm just getting flashbacks to Adam in my honeymoon in Italy, 0:06:00.800 --> 0:06:03.719 where we romantically thought it was going to be amazing 0:06:03.760 --> 0:06:05.360 and it was. I mean, honey, don't get me wrong, 0:06:05.360 --> 0:06:07.920 it was amazing, but we had to sleep sitting up 0:06:08.360 --> 0:06:11.200 for so much of it because we were eating. 0:06:11.800 --> 0:06:14.240 Red wine and red sauce and red tomatoes. 0:06:14.360 --> 0:06:19.360 You just pasta red wine meals and like trying to 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.880 lay down on it. I mean, I still like it 0:06:23.040 --> 0:06:25.200 rises up into my throat when I even think about 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:25.960 It's so grossy. 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:29.080 Yes, we should have done those big Florentine stakes at lunch. 0:06:29.520 --> 0:06:31.400 Yes, sure, Chris. 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.120 The athletes you work with and me too, like we 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:38.719 love to travel. In your experience flying with athletes in 0:06:38.720 --> 0:06:41.480 and out of different time zones and dealing with different 0:06:41.560 --> 0:06:44.000 types of sleep schedules to get them on the right 0:06:44.040 --> 0:06:46.560 sleep schedule, what do you do with all of the 0:06:46.600 --> 0:06:50.120 teams that are flying around and changing time zones? Constantly. 0:06:50.680 --> 0:06:53.240 It depends on a couple things. The first is what 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.560 is your mission. If the mission is to fly to London, 0:06:56.680 --> 0:06:59.440 give a lecture and go right back home, then you 0:06:59.480 --> 0:07:02.120 may not really want to acclimate to the time zone right. 0:07:02.240 --> 0:07:04.080 A great example is, you know, a lot of times 0:07:04.080 --> 0:07:07.080 a team will play a preseason game in Mumbai, India. 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:09.560 They want people not to get hurt, not to lose 0:07:09.600 --> 0:07:12.320 a player, and just reacclimate to that time zone they've 0:07:12.320 --> 0:07:15.400 come from as quickly as possible. Or you're trying to 0:07:15.400 --> 0:07:17.880 get to a place and actually enjoy it, like Italy, 0:07:18.080 --> 0:07:20.680 you know, and the meal is so interesting. It's like, 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:24.040 let's all meet back here at three o'clock in the 0:07:24.040 --> 0:07:27.760 morning on this zoom call and have like heavy alfredo 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:30.120 and see how our bodies adjust to it. It's like 0:07:30.680 --> 0:07:32.240 we could do it if we did it every night, 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:36.160 three m alfredo, big pasta dinner, we'd eventually get used 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.480 to it. But this is kind of what we're looking at. 0:07:38.480 --> 0:07:41.680 We're trying to adjust to a different timing for our athleticism, 0:07:42.080 --> 0:07:44.360 a different timing for our eating, and a different timing 0:07:44.360 --> 0:07:47.640 for our sleep. So there's all kinds of interventions you 0:07:47.680 --> 0:07:51.400 can use to speed that process up. But it's different 0:07:51.440 --> 0:07:54.960 for every athlete. But there's all kinds of interventions that 0:07:55.040 --> 0:07:57.640 can adjust our circadian rhythm a little bit faster than 0:07:57.640 --> 0:08:00.680 it would typically if we did nothing in the direction 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.160 of travel matters. It's easier for us to stay a 0:08:03.240 --> 0:08:05.520 little bit later than to go to bed early right 0:08:05.560 --> 0:08:07.600 before we're ready, so that that kind of plays a 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:08.560 role in it as well too. 0:08:08.960 --> 0:08:12.240 This is like an example. We love our whole families 0:08:12.240 --> 0:08:13.920 on the East Coast. We live on the West Coast, 0:08:14.080 --> 0:08:16.560 so I always say, bring your kids to New York. 0:08:16.680 --> 0:08:19.000 Instead of giving them dinner at five o'clock, which is 0:08:19.080 --> 0:08:21.400 what we do here, you know, let them eat at 0:08:21.400 --> 0:08:24.920 eight pm with the whole family and then they sleep 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:25.640 later too. 0:08:25.760 --> 0:08:27.040 We love an East coast trip. 0:08:27.160 --> 0:08:31.080 What would be some examples of ways that you could 0:08:31.160 --> 0:08:34.120 supplement if you were going to intervene and try to 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:36.840 change someone's sleep schedule for a different time. 0:08:37.040 --> 0:08:38.840 Yeah, I think there's lots of ways to do it. 0:08:39.040 --> 0:08:39.120 Now. 0:08:39.160 --> 0:08:41.120 I like to be thoughtful. What are you giving your 0:08:41.200 --> 0:08:43.320 child right before they get on the plane. I love 0:08:43.360 --> 0:08:46.800 there's little hummus bowls with the little pretzel chips. Hummus 0:08:46.960 --> 0:08:48.200 is a ton of trip to fan in it. So 0:08:48.200 --> 0:08:51.120 we always talk about trip to fan and the Thanksgiving turkey. 0:08:51.120 --> 0:08:54.240 There's way more trip to fan in chickpeas and hummus 0:08:54.240 --> 0:08:57.480 than there is in a traditional store bought turkey. So 0:08:57.920 --> 0:08:59.640 I like cam and meal tea. Like you got to 0:08:59.640 --> 0:09:01.320 be careful, you know, want to give the kids, you know, 0:09:01.360 --> 0:09:04.280 green tea or caffeinated tea, but maybe you make a 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:07.200 little thing of you know, camimeal tea or ice it 0:09:07.320 --> 0:09:09.120 and you have that in their sippy cups. And Okay, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.280 we're gonna drink our relaxing teas before we get on there. 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:14.160 I mean, none of those things are going to hurt. 0:09:14.200 --> 0:09:18.199 And again, might you know, create a little bit more relaxation, 0:09:18.320 --> 0:09:21.080 a little bit more sedation that this sort of helps 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:22.360 the plane flight a little bit. 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.400 So one easy thing is not even a supplement, but 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:29.360 a juice. Right, tart cherry juice is blown up all 0:09:29.400 --> 0:09:31.199 over the place. I've been using it for about ten 0:09:31.320 --> 0:09:33.360 years with my athletes. 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:35.120 What I've never heard of this? 0:09:35.360 --> 0:09:37.080 Did you say tart cherry juice? 0:09:37.120 --> 0:09:40.600 Tart cherry juice, not the sweet bing cherries. It has 0:09:40.640 --> 0:09:42.840 to be the tart Montmorency cherries. 0:09:43.200 --> 0:09:43.760 Wow. 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:47.760 Yes, the science shows us that it's fifty cherries, whether 0:09:47.800 --> 0:09:52.439 they're frozen, dried, or squeezed into an eight ounced juice. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.760 There's naturally occurring melatonin in the cherries, and it's kind 0:09:55.760 --> 0:09:58.080 of like a time release, and then there's also some 0:09:58.120 --> 0:10:00.839 extra antioxidant, so that could really help. I do want 0:10:00.880 --> 0:10:03.000 to say, if you're having issues with your sugars and 0:10:03.040 --> 0:10:05.760 there's some pre diabetes or anything, you're definitely going to 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.240 want to figure out how to blend that with you know, 0:10:09.280 --> 0:10:12.360 some proteins and some fats and fibers so that sugar 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:14.160 doesn't dump right into your system. 0:10:14.160 --> 0:10:16.640 But yes, that's a really easy thing to do. 0:10:16.920 --> 0:10:20.559 And a lot of my athletes and non athletes, they 0:10:20.559 --> 0:10:21.160 swear by it. 0:10:21.200 --> 0:10:23.400 I swear by it. It works really well. 0:10:23.480 --> 0:10:24.960 Whow Yes. 0:10:25.160 --> 0:10:27.040 Yeah, you can take it anytime to day. You can 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:28.720 take it at night, you can take it in the morning. 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.160 Where do you buy it? Any grocery store, any grocery store. 0:10:32.200 --> 0:10:34.400 And you know, I worked with the US men's national 0:10:34.480 --> 0:10:37.240 soccer team and I introduced it to them as well. 0:10:37.320 --> 0:10:39.280 So there were a few of us with soccer. We 0:10:39.320 --> 0:10:42.240 would come together in different cities or countries, and so 0:10:42.280 --> 0:10:45.319 we would do a nightcap and we would do little 0:10:45.320 --> 0:10:47.080 shots of tar cherry juice. 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.640 So that was our way of getting it, very different 0:10:50.720 --> 0:10:54.439 than what I've ever done experienced. I'm interested that was 0:10:54.480 --> 0:10:58.319 our nightcap in this on this same subject. And please 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:02.160 both of you feel free to answer. What are the minerals, vitamins, 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:06.000 nutrients that people could try or that you suggest before 0:11:06.240 --> 0:11:10.600 resorting to a sleep supplement. This tart cherry juice is 0:11:10.640 --> 0:11:13.040 one of them. Yes, what are other things on the list? 0:11:13.240 --> 0:11:17.480 Yes, I'd recommend camin meal tea would be fantastic. High 0:11:17.559 --> 0:11:23.040 magnesium foods, so your nuts, in your seeds, magnesiums. 0:11:22.360 --> 0:11:26.720 Are great, just overall relaxing. And then Chris, when we're 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:30.720 resorting to the supplements, what is that? Are we talking 0:11:30.800 --> 0:11:36.160 like natural like magnesium powder, magnesium pills? What are people doing? 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:41.199 I would say that magnesium is important for the support 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:43.640 of good sleep. Neurologists that used to work with said, 0:11:43.679 --> 0:11:47.920 you know what, brains love magnesium. So to me, what 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:50.000 I would say to a patient who may be struggling 0:11:50.040 --> 0:11:52.400 with sleep is have you had your magnesium checked. I've 0:11:52.400 --> 0:11:54.960 been educated by a lot of dieticians and nutritions out 0:11:55.000 --> 0:11:57.920 there that say, you'd be surprised how many elite level 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:02.680 basketball players show up at training camp and they're magnesium deficient. 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:05.080 So I would say this is a great thing to 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:07.920 test for, and the people who are deficient, maybe magnesium 0:12:07.920 --> 0:12:10.440 supplementation could be helpful or you're not going to get 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:13.080 into a lot of trouble just taking a reasonable supplement 0:12:13.200 --> 0:12:15.439 of magnesium yourself. To me, it's all about expectation. 0:12:15.800 --> 0:12:16.720 I think where we run. 0:12:16.600 --> 0:12:19.520 Into trouble is I have been struggling with sleep for years. 0:12:20.120 --> 0:12:22.120 I am lucky if I get two hours of sleep. 0:12:22.200 --> 0:12:27.840 I have this terrible, anxiety fraught relationship with sleep. How 0:12:27.840 --> 0:12:31.360 about magnesium. I don't think magnesium is going to touch that. 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.240 I think Chris brings up a great point, right, you 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.440 want to get to the root of what it is 0:12:36.480 --> 0:12:39.679 and where in your sleep what's happening, and then that 0:12:39.720 --> 0:12:42.880 way you can start little things and maybe a supplement 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:46.200 is or is not part of your program, but it's 0:12:46.320 --> 0:12:47.080 just a band aid. 0:12:47.120 --> 0:12:51.000 Really, Okay, I went on a huge melatonin kick. I've 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:54.600 been on the magnesium powder kick. I've been on the 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.160 CBD kick. I'm trying to think. I think that might 0:12:58.760 --> 0:13:01.000 be Adam, you think that's it. I feel like those 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:01.760 are my three. 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:06.520 Well, what's the sleepy tea. Is that a high magnesium. 0:13:05.920 --> 0:13:08.880 Tea Cammeo passion flower, Valerian. 0:13:08.520 --> 0:13:10.199 Usually, Oh yeah, Valerian Root. 0:13:10.360 --> 0:13:12.800 There's another one, yeah, Valerian Root. But how are those 0:13:12.840 --> 0:13:13.360 things working? 0:13:13.400 --> 0:13:16.079 I mean, what about nighttime rituals, something that you can 0:13:16.120 --> 0:13:18.720 put into your routine that may help with your sleep. 0:13:18.920 --> 0:13:20.199 Are you a tea person? 0:13:20.400 --> 0:13:23.440 Oh yeah, My wife's a big tea person. In fact, 0:13:23.480 --> 0:13:25.640 I grow camrameal. I think it's fun to grow it 0:13:25.720 --> 0:13:28.440 and dry it out and grind it up and stick. 0:13:28.200 --> 0:13:28.960 It a little thing. 0:13:29.160 --> 0:13:30.839 So I think that's great. I mean, I think when 0:13:30.840 --> 0:13:33.320 you're looking at well, Chris, I'd like to know more 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:37.080 about supplements and figure out ways to integrate them into 0:13:37.120 --> 0:13:40.600 a healthier sleep lifestyle. I think bedtime routine is a 0:13:40.679 --> 0:13:44.480 huge place for it. So there's the tea Camimeo passion Flower, 0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:48.760 Valerian Root. I think nothing's better than every evening you're 0:13:48.840 --> 0:13:52.240 settling down to watch your episode of whatever or read 0:13:52.320 --> 0:13:56.080 your chapter of whatever, and you enjoy your camerameal tea. 0:13:56.240 --> 0:13:57.800 We used to do that with our kids, like we 0:13:57.840 --> 0:13:59.760 would make you tea and kind of deliver it to 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.800 their bedrooms when they were doing homework and calculus just 0:14:03.240 --> 0:14:05.800 kind of Okay, let's dim some lights here, let's get 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:09.240 the phones hooked up downstairs. Here's your tea. Just this 0:14:09.400 --> 0:14:11.679 kind of it kind of creates this rhythm ah when 0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:13.559 you smell the tea and you feel the warmth and 0:14:13.640 --> 0:14:16.360 you taste the cammeal. Maybe the cammeal has some sort 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:19.880 of relaxing property improves your sleep, but it does always 0:14:20.000 --> 0:14:23.280 serve as that queue to oh, tasting the cam meal, 0:14:23.360 --> 0:14:25.000 it's about time to go to bed. It's like the 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:28.440 lavender spray on your pillow. I love lattes and I 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:30.720 would drink a latte every night if it didn't screw 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:33.120 up my sleep. So my newest one is it's got 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:36.680 all kinds of different eshwagandha and all these different alfhienine 0:14:36.680 --> 0:14:40.120 I think in mushroom optogens and all these things that 0:14:40.200 --> 0:14:43.080 sort of support sleep no caffeine. So I think that's 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:46.480 where you can really find a solid hook into the 0:14:46.520 --> 0:14:50.080 supplement world. Is trying to kind of build these things 0:14:50.120 --> 0:14:52.920 into a routine to support not only better sleep, it's 0:14:52.960 --> 0:14:53.400 better health. 0:14:53.400 --> 0:14:56.520 I think this is a fascinating discussion, and we are 0:14:56.560 --> 0:14:57.600 not done more to come. 0:15:01.080 --> 0:15:03.880 Welcome back to Chasing Sleep. In this episode, we are 0:15:03.920 --> 0:15:08.240 aiming for peak performance. We're talking about sleep and supplements 0:15:08.280 --> 0:15:11.280 with Danielle Lafata, who helps the Phoenix suns eat well 0:15:11.320 --> 0:15:15.040 and get good sleep, and sleep specialist doctor Chris Winter, 0:15:15.280 --> 0:15:18.080 who works with lots of pro athletes too along with 0:15:18.160 --> 0:15:21.880 regular people like us. What do you think, Chris, what 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.680 should our listeners consider when looking at supplements. 0:15:24.960 --> 0:15:27.000 Yeah, it's a tough thing. And I'll say right off 0:15:27.000 --> 0:15:29.120 the bat, you know, I tend to be pretty much 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.840 a stickler for research, but you know, in terms of 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:35.760 great research behind sleep, I would say that's a little lacking. 0:15:36.040 --> 0:15:38.200 I think it's important to understand that just because there 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:42.000 isn't research behind something doesn't mean it's not true. It 0:15:42.040 --> 0:15:44.800 just means we can't say with a lot of authority 0:15:44.840 --> 0:15:47.680 about that. You know, certain ingredients maybe in my non 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.280 latte latte may kind of fall into that category of 0:15:50.680 --> 0:15:53.680 maybe in five years we're talking about, Wow, the adaptogens 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.080 were so important. I think this is where consumer technology 0:15:57.160 --> 0:16:00.000 sort of comes in and really works at its best 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:02.440 when you're asking it a question. So why he says, us, 0:16:02.440 --> 0:16:04.280 sleep's terrible? So I bought this thing. I'll put it 0:16:04.280 --> 0:16:07.880 on my wrist, do the experiment. Hey, Okay, take the supplement, 0:16:07.920 --> 0:16:10.000 the magnesium. I like to change one variable to time, 0:16:10.040 --> 0:16:12.400 So pick some weeks that things are pretty steady at work, 0:16:12.480 --> 0:16:14.920 and for this two weeks you're going to take magnesium, 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.280 and for these two weeks you're not, And see what 0:16:17.400 --> 0:16:20.200 happens with your sleep. 0:16:19.960 --> 0:16:23.160 Tracker, Daniel. Are these supplements safe to take? 0:16:23.440 --> 0:16:27.680 The supplement industry is wild. It's the wild wild West. 0:16:27.680 --> 0:16:31.000 So anything you pull off the shelf, don't think that 0:16:31.040 --> 0:16:33.160 what it says on the bottle is actually what is 0:16:33.200 --> 0:16:35.560 on the bottle. And I've been preaching this for over 0:16:35.760 --> 0:16:39.440 fifteen years now. In the sports world, we have NSF 0:16:39.680 --> 0:16:45.160 Certified for Sport or Informed Choice or Informed Sport certified, 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:49.040 so they're a third party company and they make sure 0:16:49.040 --> 0:16:51.840 that what it says on the label is actually in 0:16:51.960 --> 0:16:54.640 the bottle, and then they test it against all of 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:58.480 the two hundred band substances on the World Anti Doping 0:16:58.520 --> 0:17:04.840 Agency list. I only recommend those supplements to my athletes, 0:17:05.160 --> 0:17:07.720 and the FDA doesn't have enough manpower and they don't 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:11.199 have them enough money to regulate this industry. So you 0:17:11.320 --> 0:17:14.720 have to be the sleuth or find the professionals that 0:17:14.760 --> 0:17:15.560 will do that for you. 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.119 Not to get too far off. There's a great study 0:17:18.119 --> 0:17:20.520 that just came out that supplemented another study from twenty 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:23.399 seventeen in Canada. So basically, if you're taking melaton, you 0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:26.200 have no idea what's in it. They took thirty commercial 0:17:26.240 --> 0:17:30.040 brands and actually looked at them, and the variance was comical. 0:17:30.080 --> 0:17:33.120 In fact, one had no melatonin. It just had CBD 0:17:33.240 --> 0:17:33.479 in it. 0:17:33.560 --> 0:17:36.119 Okay, I think we have to ask what's the story 0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:36.760 with CBD? 0:17:37.119 --> 0:17:37.399 Okay? 0:17:37.480 --> 0:17:40.240 It is everywhere, literally everywhere I look. Is there any 0:17:40.320 --> 0:17:43.200 research on this? What is CBD all about? 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:45.879 Yeah? So I did a deep dive on this, you know, 0:17:45.960 --> 0:17:48.840 right before I went to Major League Baseball training camp, 0:17:49.000 --> 0:17:51.359 to have that ready for every baseball player that asked 0:17:51.359 --> 0:17:56.440 about it. You know, CBD, cambinoids, THCHCCBN. You know. My 0:17:56.560 --> 0:17:59.200 takeaway is this, we can't really say a lot about 0:17:59.240 --> 0:18:02.080 it right now because it's just known in relationship to sleep. 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:06.800 I actually feel like in certain chronic pain sort of situations, 0:18:07.359 --> 0:18:12.480 even something like generalized anxiety, I think there's some promise there. 0:18:12.920 --> 0:18:14.679 And I think that when we are in any one 0:18:14.720 --> 0:18:16.639 of those subjects, I feel like I'm a little bit 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.760 out of my expertise. Realm if I'm talking about general 0:18:19.760 --> 0:18:22.879 as anxiety as where I'm a sleep specialist tenurologist, I 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:26.400 think we can say pretty definitively at this point there's 0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:30.680 not any real great data support chronic use of any 0:18:30.720 --> 0:18:34.440 of these products as something that would relate to better sleep. Now, 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.399 where you get into the weeds a little bit is 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:40.040 as we've talked about before on the show, great sleep 0:18:40.359 --> 0:18:44.320 kind of relies on mindfulness. I think for individuals who 0:18:44.359 --> 0:18:46.879 have struggled for a very long time with their sleep, 0:18:47.119 --> 0:18:51.639 there's an inevitable anxiety about sleep, and so it's hard 0:18:51.720 --> 0:18:56.119 sometimes to separate out. If you can control anxiety, specifically 0:18:56.200 --> 0:19:00.640 anxiety around the process of sleeping, you'll often and either 0:19:00.760 --> 0:19:05.239 facilitate maybe a marginally better sleep, but almost always a 0:19:05.280 --> 0:19:07.000 better perception of the sleep. 0:19:07.119 --> 0:19:11.040 Obviously, falling asleep is so much different, I guess than 0:19:11.080 --> 0:19:14.080 staying asleep, because I have tons of friends that can 0:19:14.119 --> 0:19:16.600 fall asleep right away, but they can't get connective sleep. 0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:18.040 You know, if they wake up the middle of the night, 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.239