1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:04,800 Speaker 1: Anyone that comes over to Shapi Low's residents. By the way, listeners, 2 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: that's our ship name, Shapiro Low's. If you come over 3 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: to our house, there's a few cupboards you could open 4 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:12,520 Speaker 1: up if you're like looking for a wine cup or whatever. 5 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,480 Speaker 1: That just supplements are going to come poor house. 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:19,079 Speaker 2: Well, you know, eight percent of Americans use some sort 7 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: of sleep aid, according to the National Center of Sleep Statistics. 8 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 1: And Nielsen says that we spend over a billion. Yeah, baby, 9 00:00:27,440 --> 00:00:31,760 Speaker 1: that's a billion with a B dollars a year on 10 00:00:32,280 --> 00:00:33,920 Speaker 1: melatonin alone. 11 00:00:34,080 --> 00:00:34,239 Speaker 3: WHOA. 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 2: People will do just about anything to get a good 13 00:00:36,600 --> 00:00:37,280 Speaker 2: night's sleep. 14 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 4: It's the whole thing. 15 00:00:38,640 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: Hey, it's Katie Low's and I'm Adam Shapiro and this 16 00:00:42,000 --> 00:00:46,080 Speaker 1: is Chasing Sleep, a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia 17 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:48,320 Speaker 1: in partnership with Mattress Firm. 18 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:51,120 Speaker 2: On this episode, we want to talk about nutrition and 19 00:00:51,200 --> 00:00:55,000 Speaker 2: fitness and quality sleep. Let's just call it the holistic 20 00:00:55,040 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 2: health triangle. 21 00:00:56,400 --> 00:01:01,840 Speaker 1: We are busy people, actors, entrepreneurs, parents, podcast hosts, and 22 00:01:02,000 --> 00:01:05,440 Speaker 1: sleep is like really really important to us. 23 00:01:05,640 --> 00:01:08,800 Speaker 2: Yes, And because our health and our families health is 24 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 2: so important. That's why I've been looking forward to this episode. 25 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:17,240 Speaker 2: Our guests include doctor Chris Winter, a sleep neurologist and 26 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 2: scientist who has authored. 27 00:01:18,640 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 4: Two books about sleep. 28 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,360 Speaker 2: Chris is at the forefront of research and studies about 29 00:01:24,360 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 2: the science behind sleep supplements. 30 00:01:27,520 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 4: Welcome Chris. 31 00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:31,360 Speaker 3: I'm excited to be back. This is a fantastic topic. 32 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,479 Speaker 1: Chris advises a lot of athletes and professional sports teams 33 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:37,240 Speaker 1: on how quality sleep can help maximize performance. 34 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,640 Speaker 2: Yes, and I even understand that you worked with my 35 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,400 Speaker 2: hometown heroes, the Philadelphia Phillies. 36 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: And Danielle la Fata is also with us. She's director 37 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:52,160 Speaker 1: of Performance Nutrition for the Phoenix Suns. She figures out 38 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 1: what these top athletes need to be eating to be 39 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: their best and making sure that they get good quality 40 00:01:58,040 --> 00:02:00,320 Speaker 1: sleep so that they can return to the play offs 41 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:04,200 Speaker 1: again next year. Welcome Danielle, so nice to meet you. 42 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:05,960 Speaker 4: It's nice to meet you guys as well. 43 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:06,880 Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. 44 00:02:07,200 --> 00:02:10,000 Speaker 1: Thank you so much Danielle and Chris for being here 45 00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: to talk about sleep and supplements, which is a hot 46 00:02:15,120 --> 00:02:18,799 Speaker 1: button topic amongst me and all my mom friends and 47 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:20,560 Speaker 1: my mom herself included. 48 00:02:20,880 --> 00:02:24,920 Speaker 2: Chris, We're gonna get started with you, nutrition, fitness, sleep. 49 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 4: Let's talk about the holistic health triangle. 50 00:02:28,200 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 2: As I recall my high school geometry, is this an 51 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,239 Speaker 2: equilateral triangle? 52 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:34,560 Speaker 1: Hold on a second, Adam, you took high school geometry 53 00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 1: and you remember any of it? 54 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:38,400 Speaker 4: Yes? I did, Katie, Okay, I didn't say I did 55 00:02:38,440 --> 00:02:39,000 Speaker 4: well in it. 56 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: Chris, tell us about this holistic health triangle. 57 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,120 Speaker 3: I always think about it as four legs of a table, 58 00:02:45,160 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 3: so I'm more of a quad guy. I think about exercise, nutrition, mindfulness, 59 00:02:52,400 --> 00:02:56,400 Speaker 3: and then sleep. I think mindfulness really starts with trying 60 00:02:56,440 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 3: to understand not only your own sleep and maybe issues 61 00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 3: you may be having with your sleep, but also the 62 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:06,360 Speaker 3: emotion that you're bringing with it. Those are sort of 63 00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:09,400 Speaker 3: my four I think. You know, if you take one 64 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,679 Speaker 3: of those legs away, the table collapses. 65 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 1: Chris, how do you define sleep supplements? 66 00:03:15,040 --> 00:03:18,320 Speaker 3: I think the best way to define supplement is something 67 00:03:18,520 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 3: that's taking a process that's hopefully already pretty healthy and 68 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 3: making it even a little bit more healthy. So what 69 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,760 Speaker 3: we're looking at is a biochemical reaction that starts from 70 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:30,680 Speaker 3: the time we ingest food to the point we're actually 71 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 3: making chemicals in our brain that support sleep. Serotone and 72 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:36,440 Speaker 3: melatone and dopamine or rexin. There's a bunch of them, 73 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 3: and along each pathway you're taking the proteins in milk 74 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 3: and breaking them down to an amino acid. That trip 75 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,840 Speaker 3: to fan gets converted into something else, and eventually you 76 00:03:44,880 --> 00:03:48,000 Speaker 3: get melatonin. And there's all these steps and all these 77 00:03:48,040 --> 00:03:51,800 Speaker 3: cofactors and minerals that are important to support that process. 78 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:54,080 Speaker 3: And for an elite athlete like Danielle's working for, that 79 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 3: matters a tremendous amount. But if you're listening to this thinking, oh, 80 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,440 Speaker 3: how much magnism do I need to get so I 81 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:03,080 Speaker 3: can get some sleep, there's a reason why we don't 82 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 3: call them treatments. We understand very clearly how these things 83 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 3: are best used and where they're not going to be 84 00:04:09,480 --> 00:04:10,280 Speaker 3: particularly helpful. 85 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:15,080 Speaker 1: And Danielle, you help manage all three or even four 86 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,599 Speaker 1: of these, which Chris has mentioned the mindfulness part. The 87 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:21,480 Speaker 1: three I'm talking about are the nutrition, fitness, and sleep 88 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,479 Speaker 1: you manage. These were top athletes who compete at their 89 00:04:24,480 --> 00:04:28,039 Speaker 1: physical and mental best. Let's just like get into this. 90 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: Do you recommend supplements? 91 00:04:30,120 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 4: Yes? 92 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:30,800 Speaker 3: I do. 93 00:04:31,040 --> 00:04:35,159 Speaker 5: I am still food first, supplement second, but I always 94 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,080 Speaker 5: talk about being smart with our supplementation. Chris can talk 95 00:04:39,120 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 5: to this a little bit more, right, they're also phases 96 00:04:41,200 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 5: of sleep. Are you having a hard time falling asleep 97 00:04:43,279 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 5: or are you having time staying asleep? And so then 98 00:04:45,920 --> 00:04:50,200 Speaker 5: that's where food, nutrition, hydration at a potential supplement could 99 00:04:50,200 --> 00:04:53,240 Speaker 5: come in. So just really understanding what's going on and 100 00:04:53,279 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 5: what's needed. 101 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: What would you say are the connections between nutrition and 102 00:04:58,640 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: quality sleep. 103 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 5: Well, it's finding that sweet spot for people where you 104 00:05:03,400 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 5: can have a light snack one to two hours before 105 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 5: going to bed if needed. When I speak with my athletes, 106 00:05:09,400 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 5: whether it's my bench guys, and they didn't play very 107 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:14,520 Speaker 5: many minutes, but they still had a warm up, and 108 00:05:14,520 --> 00:05:16,479 Speaker 5: they still went in earlier in the morning, and they're 109 00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 5: still not going to bed until one or two o'clock 110 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:19,159 Speaker 5: after the game. 111 00:05:19,560 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: They still need to eat. 112 00:05:20,960 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 5: So maybe it's more of an in between meal, not 113 00:05:23,520 --> 00:05:26,400 Speaker 5: so much as a real heavy dinner, but it's not 114 00:05:26,480 --> 00:05:29,279 Speaker 5: a light snack somewhere in between for them, whereas my 115 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 5: starters or my high minutes players. 116 00:05:32,920 --> 00:05:34,800 Speaker 1: Yes, they'll need to eat post game. 117 00:05:34,880 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 5: So it's explaining to them that because they're like, oh, 118 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 5: I shouldn't eat late at night, I can't eat late 119 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 5: at night. Well, you've been active for the last five 120 00:05:42,520 --> 00:05:44,279 Speaker 5: six hours and now you're not going to go to 121 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 5: sleep for another couple hours because you're all revveed up. 122 00:05:47,240 --> 00:05:50,000 Speaker 5: So it's looking at each individual and seeing where you're 123 00:05:50,040 --> 00:05:53,279 Speaker 5: at your physical activity or non activity throughout the day, 124 00:05:53,640 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 5: and how we could adjust your meal patterning. 125 00:05:56,360 --> 00:06:00,160 Speaker 1: I'm just getting flashbacks to Adam in my honeymoon in Italy, 126 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,719 Speaker 1: where we romantically thought it was going to be amazing 127 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 1: and it was. I mean, honey, don't get me wrong, 128 00:06:05,360 --> 00:06:07,920 Speaker 1: it was amazing, but we had to sleep sitting up 129 00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:11,200 Speaker 1: for so much of it because we were eating. 130 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:14,240 Speaker 4: Red wine and red sauce and red tomatoes. 131 00:06:14,360 --> 00:06:19,360 Speaker 1: You just pasta red wine meals and like trying to 132 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 1: lay down on it. I mean, I still like it 133 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:25,200 Speaker 1: rises up into my throat when I even think about 134 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:25,960 Speaker 1: It's so grossy. 135 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:29,080 Speaker 2: Yes, we should have done those big Florentine stakes at lunch. 136 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 4: Yes, sure, Chris. 137 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,120 Speaker 1: The athletes you work with and me too, like we 138 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:38,719 Speaker 1: love to travel. In your experience flying with athletes in 139 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:41,480 Speaker 1: and out of different time zones and dealing with different 140 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:44,000 Speaker 1: types of sleep schedules to get them on the right 141 00:06:44,040 --> 00:06:46,560 Speaker 1: sleep schedule, what do you do with all of the 142 00:06:46,600 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 1: teams that are flying around and changing time zones? Constantly. 143 00:06:50,680 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 3: It depends on a couple things. The first is what 144 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 3: is your mission. If the mission is to fly to London, 145 00:06:56,680 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 3: give a lecture and go right back home, then you 146 00:06:59,480 --> 00:07:02,120 Speaker 3: may not really want to acclimate to the time zone right. 147 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,080 Speaker 3: A great example is, you know, a lot of times 148 00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:07,080 Speaker 3: a team will play a preseason game in Mumbai, India. 149 00:07:07,240 --> 00:07:09,560 Speaker 3: They want people not to get hurt, not to lose 150 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 3: a player, and just reacclimate to that time zone they've 151 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:15,400 Speaker 3: come from as quickly as possible. Or you're trying to 152 00:07:15,400 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 3: get to a place and actually enjoy it, like Italy, 153 00:07:18,080 --> 00:07:20,680 Speaker 3: you know, and the meal is so interesting. It's like, 154 00:07:21,320 --> 00:07:24,040 Speaker 3: let's all meet back here at three o'clock in the 155 00:07:24,040 --> 00:07:27,760 Speaker 3: morning on this zoom call and have like heavy alfredo 156 00:07:28,160 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 3: and see how our bodies adjust to it. It's like 157 00:07:30,680 --> 00:07:32,240 Speaker 3: we could do it if we did it every night, 158 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 3: three m alfredo, big pasta dinner, we'd eventually get used 159 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,480 Speaker 3: to it. But this is kind of what we're looking at. 160 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 3: We're trying to adjust to a different timing for our athleticism, 161 00:07:42,080 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 3: a different timing for our eating, and a different timing 162 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 3: for our sleep. So there's all kinds of interventions you 163 00:07:47,680 --> 00:07:51,400 Speaker 3: can use to speed that process up. But it's different 164 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:54,960 Speaker 3: for every athlete. But there's all kinds of interventions that 165 00:07:55,040 --> 00:07:57,640 Speaker 3: can adjust our circadian rhythm a little bit faster than 166 00:07:57,640 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 3: it would typically if we did nothing in the direction 167 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,160 Speaker 3: of travel matters. It's easier for us to stay a 168 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,520 Speaker 3: little bit later than to go to bed early right 169 00:08:05,560 --> 00:08:07,600 Speaker 3: before we're ready, so that that kind of plays a 170 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 3: role in it as well too. 171 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: This is like an example. We love our whole families 172 00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: on the East Coast. We live on the West Coast, 173 00:08:14,080 --> 00:08:16,560 Speaker 1: so I always say, bring your kids to New York. 174 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,000 Speaker 1: Instead of giving them dinner at five o'clock, which is 175 00:08:19,080 --> 00:08:21,400 Speaker 1: what we do here, you know, let them eat at 176 00:08:21,400 --> 00:08:24,920 Speaker 1: eight pm with the whole family and then they sleep 177 00:08:25,040 --> 00:08:25,640 Speaker 1: later too. 178 00:08:25,760 --> 00:08:27,040 Speaker 4: We love an East coast trip. 179 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:31,080 Speaker 1: What would be some examples of ways that you could 180 00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,120 Speaker 1: supplement if you were going to intervene and try to 181 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:36,840 Speaker 1: change someone's sleep schedule for a different time. 182 00:08:37,040 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think there's lots of ways to do it. 183 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:39,120 Speaker 4: Now. 184 00:08:39,160 --> 00:08:41,120 Speaker 3: I like to be thoughtful. What are you giving your 185 00:08:41,200 --> 00:08:43,320 Speaker 3: child right before they get on the plane. I love 186 00:08:43,360 --> 00:08:46,800 Speaker 3: there's little hummus bowls with the little pretzel chips. Hummus 187 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 3: is a ton of trip to fan in it. So 188 00:08:48,200 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 3: we always talk about trip to fan and the Thanksgiving turkey. 189 00:08:51,120 --> 00:08:54,240 Speaker 3: There's way more trip to fan in chickpeas and hummus 190 00:08:54,240 --> 00:08:57,480 Speaker 3: than there is in a traditional store bought turkey. So 191 00:08:57,920 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 3: I like cam and meal tea. Like you got to 192 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:01,320 Speaker 3: be careful, you know, want to give the kids, you know, 193 00:09:01,360 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 3: green tea or caffeinated tea, but maybe you make a 194 00:09:04,280 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 3: little thing of you know, camimeal tea or ice it 195 00:09:07,320 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 3: and you have that in their sippy cups. And Okay, 196 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 3: we're gonna drink our relaxing teas before we get on there. 197 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 3: I mean, none of those things are going to hurt. 198 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 3: And again, might you know, create a little bit more relaxation, 199 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 3: a little bit more sedation that this sort of helps 200 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:22,360 Speaker 3: the plane flight a little bit. 201 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,400 Speaker 5: So one easy thing is not even a supplement, but 202 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 5: a juice. Right, tart cherry juice is blown up all 203 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:31,199 Speaker 5: over the place. I've been using it for about ten 204 00:09:31,320 --> 00:09:33,360 Speaker 5: years with my athletes. 205 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:35,120 Speaker 1: What I've never heard of this? 206 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,080 Speaker 4: Did you say tart cherry juice? 207 00:09:37,120 --> 00:09:40,600 Speaker 5: Tart cherry juice, not the sweet bing cherries. It has 208 00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 5: to be the tart Montmorency cherries. 209 00:09:43,200 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 4: Wow. 210 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:47,760 Speaker 5: Yes, the science shows us that it's fifty cherries, whether 211 00:09:47,800 --> 00:09:52,439 Speaker 5: they're frozen, dried, or squeezed into an eight ounced juice. 212 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,760 Speaker 5: There's naturally occurring melatonin in the cherries, and it's kind 213 00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,080 Speaker 5: of like a time release, and then there's also some 214 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:00,839 Speaker 5: extra antioxidant, so that could really help. I do want 215 00:10:00,880 --> 00:10:03,000 Speaker 5: to say, if you're having issues with your sugars and 216 00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:05,760 Speaker 5: there's some pre diabetes or anything, you're definitely going to 217 00:10:05,840 --> 00:10:09,240 Speaker 5: want to figure out how to blend that with you know, 218 00:10:09,280 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 5: some proteins and some fats and fibers so that sugar 219 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 5: doesn't dump right into your system. 220 00:10:14,160 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: But yes, that's a really easy thing to do. 221 00:10:16,920 --> 00:10:20,559 Speaker 5: And a lot of my athletes and non athletes, they 222 00:10:20,559 --> 00:10:21,160 Speaker 5: swear by it. 223 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:23,400 Speaker 1: I swear by it. It works really well. 224 00:10:23,480 --> 00:10:24,960 Speaker 2: Whow Yes. 225 00:10:25,160 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 5: Yeah, you can take it anytime to day. You can 226 00:10:27,080 --> 00:10:28,720 Speaker 5: take it at night, you can take it in the morning. 227 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:32,160 Speaker 1: Where do you buy it? Any grocery store, any grocery store. 228 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:34,400 Speaker 5: And you know, I worked with the US men's national 229 00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 5: soccer team and I introduced it to them as well. 230 00:10:37,320 --> 00:10:39,280 Speaker 5: So there were a few of us with soccer. We 231 00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,240 Speaker 5: would come together in different cities or countries, and so 232 00:10:42,280 --> 00:10:45,319 Speaker 5: we would do a nightcap and we would do little 233 00:10:45,320 --> 00:10:47,080 Speaker 5: shots of tar cherry juice. 234 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:50,640 Speaker 1: So that was our way of getting it, very different 235 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:54,439 Speaker 1: than what I've ever done experienced. I'm interested that was 236 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,319 Speaker 1: our nightcap in this on this same subject. And please 237 00:10:58,360 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: both of you feel free to answer. What are the minerals, vitamins, 238 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:06,000 Speaker 1: nutrients that people could try or that you suggest before 239 00:11:06,240 --> 00:11:10,600 Speaker 1: resorting to a sleep supplement. This tart cherry juice is 240 00:11:10,640 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 1: one of them. Yes, what are other things on the list? 241 00:11:13,240 --> 00:11:17,480 Speaker 5: Yes, I'd recommend camin meal tea would be fantastic. High 242 00:11:17,559 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 5: magnesium foods, so your nuts, in your seeds, magnesiums. 243 00:11:22,360 --> 00:11:26,720 Speaker 1: Are great, just overall relaxing. And then Chris, when we're 244 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 1: resorting to the supplements, what is that? Are we talking 245 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 1: like natural like magnesium powder, magnesium pills? What are people doing? 246 00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:41,199 Speaker 3: I would say that magnesium is important for the support 247 00:11:41,240 --> 00:11:43,640 Speaker 3: of good sleep. Neurologists that used to work with said, 248 00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:47,920 Speaker 3: you know what, brains love magnesium. So to me, what 249 00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,000 Speaker 3: I would say to a patient who may be struggling 250 00:11:50,040 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 3: with sleep is have you had your magnesium checked. I've 251 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,960 Speaker 3: been educated by a lot of dieticians and nutritions out 252 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:57,920 Speaker 3: there that say, you'd be surprised how many elite level 253 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:02,680 Speaker 3: basketball players show up at training camp and they're magnesium deficient. 254 00:12:02,800 --> 00:12:05,080 Speaker 3: So I would say this is a great thing to 255 00:12:05,160 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 3: test for, and the people who are deficient, maybe magnesium 256 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:10,440 Speaker 3: supplementation could be helpful or you're not going to get 257 00:12:10,480 --> 00:12:13,080 Speaker 3: into a lot of trouble just taking a reasonable supplement 258 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:15,439 Speaker 3: of magnesium yourself. To me, it's all about expectation. 259 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:16,720 Speaker 4: I think where we run. 260 00:12:16,600 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 3: Into trouble is I have been struggling with sleep for years. 261 00:12:20,120 --> 00:12:22,120 Speaker 3: I am lucky if I get two hours of sleep. 262 00:12:22,200 --> 00:12:27,840 Speaker 3: I have this terrible, anxiety fraught relationship with sleep. How 263 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:31,360 Speaker 3: about magnesium. I don't think magnesium is going to touch that. 264 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:34,240 Speaker 5: I think Chris brings up a great point, right, you 265 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,440 Speaker 5: want to get to the root of what it is 266 00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 5: and where in your sleep what's happening, and then that 267 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 5: way you can start little things and maybe a supplement 268 00:12:42,960 --> 00:12:46,200 Speaker 5: is or is not part of your program, but it's 269 00:12:46,320 --> 00:12:47,080 Speaker 5: just a band aid. 270 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: Really, Okay, I went on a huge melatonin kick. I've 271 00:12:51,040 --> 00:12:54,600 Speaker 1: been on the magnesium powder kick. I've been on the 272 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 1: CBD kick. I'm trying to think. I think that might 273 00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: be Adam, you think that's it. I feel like those 274 00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:01,760 Speaker 1: are my three. 275 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:06,520 Speaker 4: Well, what's the sleepy tea. Is that a high magnesium. 276 00:13:05,920 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 3: Tea Cammeo passion flower, Valerian. 277 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:10,199 Speaker 1: Usually, Oh yeah, Valerian Root. 278 00:13:10,360 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 4: There's another one, yeah, Valerian Root. But how are those 279 00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:13,360 Speaker 4: things working? 280 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:16,079 Speaker 2: I mean, what about nighttime rituals, something that you can 281 00:13:16,120 --> 00:13:18,720 Speaker 2: put into your routine that may help with your sleep. 282 00:13:18,920 --> 00:13:20,199 Speaker 4: Are you a tea person? 283 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:23,440 Speaker 3: Oh yeah, My wife's a big tea person. In fact, 284 00:13:23,480 --> 00:13:25,640 Speaker 3: I grow camrameal. I think it's fun to grow it 285 00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,440 Speaker 3: and dry it out and grind it up and stick. 286 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 4: It a little thing. 287 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:30,839 Speaker 3: So I think that's great. I mean, I think when 288 00:13:30,840 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 3: you're looking at well, Chris, I'd like to know more 289 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:37,080 Speaker 3: about supplements and figure out ways to integrate them into 290 00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 3: a healthier sleep lifestyle. I think bedtime routine is a 291 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,480 Speaker 3: huge place for it. So there's the tea Camimeo passion Flower, 292 00:13:44,559 --> 00:13:48,760 Speaker 3: Valerian Root. I think nothing's better than every evening you're 293 00:13:48,840 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 3: settling down to watch your episode of whatever or read 294 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,080 Speaker 3: your chapter of whatever, and you enjoy your camerameal tea. 295 00:13:56,240 --> 00:13:57,800 Speaker 3: We used to do that with our kids, like we 296 00:13:57,840 --> 00:13:59,760 Speaker 3: would make you tea and kind of deliver it to 297 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:02,800 Speaker 3: their bedrooms when they were doing homework and calculus just 298 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 3: kind of Okay, let's dim some lights here, let's get 299 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:09,240 Speaker 3: the phones hooked up downstairs. Here's your tea. Just this 300 00:14:09,400 --> 00:14:11,679 Speaker 3: kind of it kind of creates this rhythm ah when 301 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:13,559 Speaker 3: you smell the tea and you feel the warmth and 302 00:14:13,640 --> 00:14:16,360 Speaker 3: you taste the cammeal. Maybe the cammeal has some sort 303 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,880 Speaker 3: of relaxing property improves your sleep, but it does always 304 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,280 Speaker 3: serve as that queue to oh, tasting the cam meal, 305 00:14:23,360 --> 00:14:25,000 Speaker 3: it's about time to go to bed. It's like the 306 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,440 Speaker 3: lavender spray on your pillow. I love lattes and I 307 00:14:28,440 --> 00:14:30,720 Speaker 3: would drink a latte every night if it didn't screw 308 00:14:30,800 --> 00:14:33,120 Speaker 3: up my sleep. So my newest one is it's got 309 00:14:33,120 --> 00:14:36,680 Speaker 3: all kinds of different eshwagandha and all these different alfhienine 310 00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:40,120 Speaker 3: I think in mushroom optogens and all these things that 311 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 3: sort of support sleep no caffeine. So I think that's 312 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 3: where you can really find a solid hook into the 313 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 3: supplement world. Is trying to kind of build these things 314 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 3: into a routine to support not only better sleep, it's 315 00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:53,400 Speaker 3: better health. 316 00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:56,520 Speaker 2: I think this is a fascinating discussion, and we are 317 00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:57,600 Speaker 2: not done more to come. 318 00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:03,880 Speaker 1: Welcome back to Chasing Sleep. In this episode, we are 319 00:15:03,920 --> 00:15:08,240 Speaker 1: aiming for peak performance. We're talking about sleep and supplements 320 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:11,280 Speaker 1: with Danielle Lafata, who helps the Phoenix suns eat well 321 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:15,040 Speaker 1: and get good sleep, and sleep specialist doctor Chris Winter, 322 00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:18,080 Speaker 1: who works with lots of pro athletes too along with 323 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:21,880 Speaker 1: regular people like us. What do you think, Chris, what 324 00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: should our listeners consider when looking at supplements. 325 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a tough thing. And I'll say right off 326 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 3: the bat, you know, I tend to be pretty much 327 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 3: a stickler for research, but you know, in terms of 328 00:15:31,960 --> 00:15:35,760 Speaker 3: great research behind sleep, I would say that's a little lacking. 329 00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,200 Speaker 3: I think it's important to understand that just because there 330 00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:42,000 Speaker 3: isn't research behind something doesn't mean it's not true. It 331 00:15:42,040 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 3: just means we can't say with a lot of authority 332 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,680 Speaker 3: about that. You know, certain ingredients maybe in my non 333 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:50,280 Speaker 3: latte latte may kind of fall into that category of 334 00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,680 Speaker 3: maybe in five years we're talking about, Wow, the adaptogens 335 00:15:53,720 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 3: were so important. I think this is where consumer technology 336 00:15:57,160 --> 00:16:00,000 Speaker 3: sort of comes in and really works at its best 337 00:16:00,120 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 3: when you're asking it a question. So why he says, us, 338 00:16:02,440 --> 00:16:04,280 Speaker 3: sleep's terrible? So I bought this thing. I'll put it 339 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,880 Speaker 3: on my wrist, do the experiment. Hey, Okay, take the supplement, 340 00:16:07,920 --> 00:16:10,000 Speaker 3: the magnesium. I like to change one variable to time, 341 00:16:10,040 --> 00:16:12,400 Speaker 3: So pick some weeks that things are pretty steady at work, 342 00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,920 Speaker 3: and for this two weeks you're going to take magnesium, 343 00:16:14,920 --> 00:16:17,280 Speaker 3: and for these two weeks you're not, And see what 344 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,200 Speaker 3: happens with your sleep. 345 00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:23,160 Speaker 4: Tracker, Daniel. Are these supplements safe to take? 346 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,680 Speaker 5: The supplement industry is wild. It's the wild wild West. 347 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:31,000 Speaker 5: So anything you pull off the shelf, don't think that 348 00:16:31,040 --> 00:16:33,160 Speaker 5: what it says on the bottle is actually what is 349 00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:35,560 Speaker 5: on the bottle. And I've been preaching this for over 350 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:39,440 Speaker 5: fifteen years now. In the sports world, we have NSF 351 00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 5: Certified for Sport or Informed Choice or Informed Sport certified, 352 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:49,040 Speaker 5: so they're a third party company and they make sure 353 00:16:49,040 --> 00:16:51,840 Speaker 5: that what it says on the label is actually in 354 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 5: the bottle, and then they test it against all of 355 00:16:54,680 --> 00:16:58,480 Speaker 5: the two hundred band substances on the World Anti Doping 356 00:16:58,520 --> 00:17:04,840 Speaker 5: Agency list. I only recommend those supplements to my athletes, 357 00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:07,720 Speaker 5: and the FDA doesn't have enough manpower and they don't 358 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 5: have them enough money to regulate this industry. So you 359 00:17:11,320 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 5: have to be the sleuth or find the professionals that 360 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:15,560 Speaker 5: will do that for you. 361 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,119 Speaker 3: Not to get too far off. There's a great study 362 00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 3: that just came out that supplemented another study from twenty 363 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:23,399 Speaker 3: seventeen in Canada. So basically, if you're taking melaton, you 364 00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 3: have no idea what's in it. They took thirty commercial 365 00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:30,040 Speaker 3: brands and actually looked at them, and the variance was comical. 366 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:33,120 Speaker 3: In fact, one had no melatonin. It just had CBD 367 00:17:33,240 --> 00:17:33,479 Speaker 3: in it. 368 00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:36,119 Speaker 1: Okay, I think we have to ask what's the story 369 00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:36,760 Speaker 1: with CBD? 370 00:17:37,119 --> 00:17:37,399 Speaker 4: Okay? 371 00:17:37,480 --> 00:17:40,240 Speaker 1: It is everywhere, literally everywhere I look. Is there any 372 00:17:40,320 --> 00:17:43,200 Speaker 1: research on this? What is CBD all about? 373 00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:45,879 Speaker 3: Yeah? So I did a deep dive on this, you know, 374 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:48,840 Speaker 3: right before I went to Major League Baseball training camp, 375 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 3: to have that ready for every baseball player that asked 376 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:56,440 Speaker 3: about it. You know, CBD, cambinoids, THCHCCBN. You know. My 377 00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 3: takeaway is this, we can't really say a lot about 378 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:02,080 Speaker 3: it right now because it's just known in relationship to sleep. 379 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:06,800 Speaker 3: I actually feel like in certain chronic pain sort of situations, 380 00:18:07,359 --> 00:18:12,480 Speaker 3: even something like generalized anxiety, I think there's some promise there. 381 00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:14,679 Speaker 3: And I think that when we are in any one 382 00:18:14,720 --> 00:18:16,639 Speaker 3: of those subjects, I feel like I'm a little bit 383 00:18:16,640 --> 00:18:19,760 Speaker 3: out of my expertise. Realm if I'm talking about general 384 00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,879 Speaker 3: as anxiety as where I'm a sleep specialist tenurologist, I 385 00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 3: think we can say pretty definitively at this point there's 386 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,680 Speaker 3: not any real great data support chronic use of any 387 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,440 Speaker 3: of these products as something that would relate to better sleep. Now, 388 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,399 Speaker 3: where you get into the weeds a little bit is 389 00:18:36,760 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 3: as we've talked about before on the show, great sleep 390 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:44,320 Speaker 3: kind of relies on mindfulness. I think for individuals who 391 00:18:44,359 --> 00:18:46,879 Speaker 3: have struggled for a very long time with their sleep, 392 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:51,639 Speaker 3: there's an inevitable anxiety about sleep, and so it's hard 393 00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:56,119 Speaker 3: sometimes to separate out. If you can control anxiety, specifically 394 00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,640 Speaker 3: anxiety around the process of sleeping, you'll often and either 395 00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:05,239 Speaker 3: facilitate maybe a marginally better sleep, but almost always a 396 00:19:05,280 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 3: better perception of the sleep. 397 00:19:07,119 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: Obviously, falling asleep is so much different, I guess than 398 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:14,080 Speaker 1: staying asleep, because I have tons of friends that can 399 00:19:14,119 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: fall asleep right away, but they can't get connective sleep. 400 00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:18,040 Speaker 1: You know, if they wake up the middle of the night, 401 00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:20,239 Speaker 1: their mind starts racing it's over and then they're up 402 00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 1: from you know, two am to seven am, Versus my 403 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:25,200 Speaker 1: friends who lay there for one hundred hours can't turn 404 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:29,600 Speaker 1: it off. Are there supplements that are helpful for one 405 00:19:29,880 --> 00:19:33,200 Speaker 1: problem versus the other? Which supplements and if any would 406 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: be needed? 407 00:19:33,840 --> 00:19:36,440 Speaker 3: Again, this is not That's probably not a process or 408 00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 3: a problem that I would look to, Oh, you have 409 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,720 Speaker 3: trouble staying asleep with then you should take this supplement 410 00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 3: versus that. I mean to me, that problem starts with 411 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:46,680 Speaker 3: the conversation of how long has this been going on? 412 00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:48,800 Speaker 3: What is it that wakes you up? How many times 413 00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:51,359 Speaker 3: are you waking up? How do you feel the next day. So, 414 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:55,199 Speaker 3: in that sort of flow chart of working through that problem, 415 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,600 Speaker 3: if supplement is in this flow chart, it is very 416 00:19:58,720 --> 00:20:01,760 Speaker 3: very near the bottom. It's not the initial thing that 417 00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:03,880 Speaker 3: I would try. So it's like we were always taught 418 00:20:03,920 --> 00:20:07,639 Speaker 3: as a neurologist about headaches. A new onset headache or 419 00:20:07,640 --> 00:20:11,880 Speaker 3: a change in headache character needs to be evaluated immediately. 420 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,840 Speaker 3: I would kind of say the same thing about sleep 421 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:16,800 Speaker 3: versus well, I'm not going to get any evaluation. I'll 422 00:20:16,840 --> 00:20:20,359 Speaker 3: just try to find a supplement that sedates me through 423 00:20:20,440 --> 00:20:22,080 Speaker 3: this issue. I mean a lot of times, you know, 424 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 3: going right to some sort of treatment like that obscures 425 00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,480 Speaker 3: the actual problem. And that's the reason why probably the 426 00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:30,880 Speaker 3: average personal sleep out and is taken three to five 427 00:20:30,960 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 3: years to get treatment because they're not going right to 428 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 3: the source. They're like, well, I started taking melatonin and 429 00:20:37,400 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 3: that seemed to work for a while, or I was 430 00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 3: taking more sedating drug that I used in the past 431 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,639 Speaker 3: for anxiety. Well what are you doing? So to me, 432 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,880 Speaker 3: anybody who's in that position of struggling to fall asleep, 433 00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,560 Speaker 3: struggling and stay sleep o, you know, getting some professional 434 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,440 Speaker 3: help for the problem first might actually eventually involve a supplement, 435 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 3: but that's not what I would jump straight to. 436 00:20:57,880 --> 00:21:00,199 Speaker 1: Also, because I was curious, like do I need this 437 00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:03,560 Speaker 1: because it's actually helping, or do I need this because 438 00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,440 Speaker 1: now I'm so stressed? So I do understand this cyclical problem. 439 00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:10,200 Speaker 4: What about the prescription drugs? 440 00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:12,640 Speaker 1: Though I've mom, this one's for you and every woman 441 00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:16,200 Speaker 1: who's ever gone through menopause. Honestly, yes, Like my mom 442 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: gets on a soapbox saying, if you are a woman 443 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,040 Speaker 1: of a certain age and you have dealt with hot 444 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:24,720 Speaker 1: flashes for fifteen years, you have tried every supplement and 445 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,600 Speaker 1: done prescriptive drugs. Because I shouldn't be driving behind the 446 00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: wheel of a car. That's how little sleep I've gotten 447 00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,760 Speaker 1: because I'm so hot and my hormones are so messed up. 448 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:36,080 Speaker 1: You're welcome. 449 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:36,280 Speaker 3: Mom. 450 00:21:36,359 --> 00:21:37,680 Speaker 1: She really wanted you all to know that. 451 00:21:39,359 --> 00:21:40,840 Speaker 4: She did. She left us note this morning. 452 00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:44,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean that's a massive it's a massive topic, 453 00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:48,880 Speaker 3: and you throw menopause in there. It's its own separate issue. 454 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:52,600 Speaker 3: It's a very very meaningful and problematic thing to people. 455 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,520 Speaker 3: And we give terrible advice to individuals who are struggling 456 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:58,320 Speaker 3: with sleep with menopause, and the advice usually becomes some 457 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:00,360 Speaker 3: sort of sleeping pill. And when you start can get 458 00:22:00,359 --> 00:22:04,720 Speaker 3: sleeping pills, they don't really change sleep that much. You're 459 00:22:04,720 --> 00:22:06,880 Speaker 3: gonna fall asleep, what five minutes faster sleep in additional 460 00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 3: seven minutes Like that's the data. But more importantly is this, 461 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:13,199 Speaker 3: There's never been a sleeping pill that shows improve performance. 462 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:15,080 Speaker 3: So when patients come to see me, well, listen, Chris, 463 00:22:15,119 --> 00:22:16,720 Speaker 3: I don't want to take the ambient, but I've got 464 00:22:16,720 --> 00:22:19,600 Speaker 3: to perform at my best or terrible things happen. Well, 465 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,720 Speaker 3: while you're looking for that study that shows that the 466 00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,680 Speaker 3: pill you're taking, whatever it is, makes you perform better, 467 00:22:25,000 --> 00:22:27,439 Speaker 3: I'll finding twenty studies to show it doesn't. So this 468 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 3: idea that we needed to perform our best. 469 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:30,320 Speaker 2: No. 470 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,840 Speaker 3: And this is a terrible sort of thought pervasive thing 471 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,800 Speaker 3: that's in medicine in general about sleeping pills, because so 472 00:22:38,960 --> 00:22:42,359 Speaker 3: many clinicians have no real training in sleep. Even though 473 00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,880 Speaker 3: of the top seven complaints you will find in a clinic, 474 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:48,640 Speaker 3: one is I can't sleep and two as I'm too 475 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,840 Speaker 3: tired during the day. So again, that perception can be 476 00:22:51,960 --> 00:22:54,679 Speaker 3: really problematic if we don't ask some questions, if we 477 00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 3: just assume, oh, well, she doesn't sleep, so let's give 478 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,240 Speaker 3: her a pillar a supplement, that can be the beginning 479 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 3: of bad things. Sleep is a skill we're trying to 480 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,920 Speaker 3: build that there's no shortcut to it. 481 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: And Danielle, how would you rate some of these supplements 482 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:17,320 Speaker 1: or let's say, do you personally suggest meditation versus a prescription? 483 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,360 Speaker 1: I start with have you done a breathing exercise? 484 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:21,240 Speaker 4: Have you journaled? 485 00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 5: I start with all the sleep hygiene. Again, I'm not 486 00:23:23,920 --> 00:23:25,960 Speaker 5: on Chris's level. I'm more of like a look at 487 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,359 Speaker 5: me as like I try to screen for these things 488 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:31,520 Speaker 5: and I know the basics. So you breathing technique or 489 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,879 Speaker 5: a yoga or a meditation huge for me. Calming things 490 00:23:34,880 --> 00:23:37,480 Speaker 5: like althenine, that's why teas are great, you know, doing 491 00:23:37,520 --> 00:23:39,919 Speaker 5: a couple of green teas in the morning or you know, 492 00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:43,320 Speaker 5: camo meal at night because of this protein or amino 493 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,200 Speaker 5: acid called althenine, which helps us to get in two 494 00:23:46,280 --> 00:23:49,679 Speaker 5: hour rest and digest or parasympathetic nervous system. 495 00:23:50,080 --> 00:23:51,920 Speaker 1: So I'll kind of start there with something light. 496 00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,719 Speaker 5: Magnesium is always good, especially if you're deficient in magnesium. 497 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:59,200 Speaker 5: It will really you'll really feel that relaxing, and I 498 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 5: think that's why after a couple of weeks it kind 499 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,120 Speaker 5: of stops, because you might have your stores all all 500 00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:07,440 Speaker 5: bound up with with that, I don't go right to melatonin. 501 00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:10,240 Speaker 5: There are a lot of sleep products for us on 502 00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:14,520 Speaker 5: NSF and that Informed Sport certified, but everything has melatonin 503 00:24:14,560 --> 00:24:17,080 Speaker 5: in it, and I don't think everybody needs melatonin. And 504 00:24:17,560 --> 00:24:19,879 Speaker 5: a lot of times my clients that I see the 505 00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 5: bet their wits end and they've been doing so much 506 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,160 Speaker 5: and they are stressed out and the mind is going, 507 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,640 Speaker 5: so they're looking at every they want a little bit 508 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:30,800 Speaker 5: of the brain and the body relaxation, you know, to help. 509 00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,960 Speaker 5: They'll do the meditation and they'll do everything, and they 510 00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:35,600 Speaker 5: know that it's just for a short period of the 511 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:38,879 Speaker 5: time until they can get going back again. It's not 512 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,080 Speaker 5: something that they hang on and that they need to 513 00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:42,000 Speaker 5: do every night. 514 00:24:42,200 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 1: Right right, everything that we just talked about. 515 00:24:45,359 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 5: It works just the same for us as it does 516 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 5: for my elite athletes. Also, it's what they're willing to 517 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,119 Speaker 5: work on, right. Are they willing to meditate? Are they 518 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:56,399 Speaker 5: willing to journal? Are they willing to get in some yoga? 519 00:24:56,400 --> 00:24:58,679 Speaker 5: Are they willing to just do exercise in general? So 520 00:24:59,359 --> 00:25:02,600 Speaker 5: just helping them create a behavior, picking one thing to 521 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:04,800 Speaker 5: work on to start working towards that. And of course 522 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 5: it's also working with people that want to look at 523 00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:09,520 Speaker 5: the root cause or want to find what the problem 524 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,359 Speaker 5: is and then want to make those gradual steps to 525 00:25:12,920 --> 00:25:15,080 Speaker 5: get to a place where they don't need these crutches. 526 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 4: What do you see down the pipe? 527 00:25:17,800 --> 00:25:20,440 Speaker 1: What's in the supplement future, Chris? 528 00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:23,080 Speaker 4: What are you seeing? What does the future of supplements 529 00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 4: look like? 530 00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,680 Speaker 3: That's a great question in terms of I always think 531 00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:29,199 Speaker 3: that you can answer any question about what does the 532 00:25:29,240 --> 00:25:33,840 Speaker 3: future of X look like by evaluating the past. And 533 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:36,480 Speaker 3: so you know, in the time that I've been in 534 00:25:36,520 --> 00:25:40,000 Speaker 3: this space since the early nineties, is there a supplement 535 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 3: that has come along that has changed everything? Like for 536 00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 3: the positive. Now that's different from you know, MELTONA came 537 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 3: along and everybody's on it. Is it truly meaningfully changing 538 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,119 Speaker 3: things for the positive or is it just sort of 539 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,119 Speaker 3: a distraction until the next thing comes along? You know? 540 00:25:56,160 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 3: I think that magnesium could certainly be in there for 541 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 3: some people. I think that generally, when you eat well 542 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 3: and you eat a relatively normal diet, you get what 543 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,760 Speaker 3: you need. Science has a way of surprising people. But 544 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,000 Speaker 3: as of right now, I think it'll just be sort 545 00:26:11,000 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 3: of or more. 546 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 1: What it is right Is the supplement future just looking boisterous. 547 00:26:18,880 --> 00:26:21,600 Speaker 5: I think supplements there just there's always going to be something. 548 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:26,040 Speaker 5: The CBD is really huge, but still in its infancy. 549 00:26:26,440 --> 00:26:28,560 Speaker 5: I thought years ago I got a handle on there's 550 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:31,680 Speaker 5: always something new coming out. We do talk about these 551 00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 5: supplements that are out there, the ones that are a 552 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 5: combo products of magnesium and alpenine and another compound GABBA, 553 00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:40,720 Speaker 5: which is a brain transmitter. 554 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:41,879 Speaker 1: Is that a pill? 555 00:26:42,359 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 2: Uh? 556 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 5: Yeah, you could take it as a pill, And that's 557 00:26:44,880 --> 00:26:48,520 Speaker 5: controversial because it's this big molecule that whether we take 558 00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 5: it through supplements or you can't really get it in food. 559 00:26:51,840 --> 00:26:54,480 Speaker 5: It's what the body makes inside by a bunch of 560 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,000 Speaker 5: different vitamins and amino acids and whatnot. 561 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,359 Speaker 1: Wait, what brain transmitter? Okay, Chris, can you break this 562 00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:01,960 Speaker 1: down for us? 563 00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:06,200 Speaker 3: Gabba compounds. That's a tricky one. Gabba is an intermediate 564 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:11,280 Speaker 3: in the synthesis of things like serotonin and melotonin. Problem is, 565 00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,720 Speaker 3: it's also not entirely clear if the preparation that you're 566 00:27:14,720 --> 00:27:18,000 Speaker 3: consuming is able to cross the blood brain barrier. These 567 00:27:18,000 --> 00:27:20,480 Speaker 3: are real chemicals and they're important in that sort of 568 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:24,680 Speaker 3: biochemical cascade. The real issue is are you consuming enough 569 00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 3: to make a difference? And number two, is it really 570 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:32,240 Speaker 3: even bioavailable getting absorbed into your bloodstream making it to 571 00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:34,080 Speaker 3: your brain to make any kind of difference. Those are 572 00:27:34,119 --> 00:27:36,800 Speaker 3: the questions more for a chemist, I think I. 573 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:39,240 Speaker 5: Would say keep coming back to are you doing it 574 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:41,639 Speaker 5: safely and smartly and using something that you know is 575 00:27:42,440 --> 00:27:45,400 Speaker 5: real and not just a bunch of you know, rice 576 00:27:45,440 --> 00:27:46,560 Speaker 5: powder and pixie. 577 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 4: Dust, snake oil, snake oil. 578 00:27:48,760 --> 00:27:54,840 Speaker 1: Yes, love this, look at them. We could live like 579 00:27:54,880 --> 00:27:59,320 Speaker 1: an athlete tonight, Honey, Danielle and Chris. This is massive. 580 00:27:59,400 --> 00:28:02,800 Speaker 1: I mean, every single person I know is struggling with 581 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,800 Speaker 1: anxiety around sleep, getting sleep, the quality of sleep. What 582 00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: should they be taking. Is it supplemental? Is it natural? 583 00:28:08,720 --> 00:28:11,240 Speaker 1: It's a lot. So thank you for being on Chasing 584 00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,880 Speaker 1: Sleep and for spending time with us and getting into 585 00:28:14,920 --> 00:28:15,560 Speaker 1: it same. 586 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,240 Speaker 3: It's a lot of fun, my pleasure. 587 00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:23,960 Speaker 1: Huge takeaway from today's episode four legs holding up the 588 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:26,119 Speaker 1: table that is you. One of those legs is nutrition, 589 00:28:26,440 --> 00:28:29,560 Speaker 1: one is fitness, one is mindfulness, and one is sleep. 590 00:28:30,080 --> 00:28:33,199 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the holy grail, is it not. 591 00:28:33,680 --> 00:28:37,600 Speaker 2: It is really important to take a step back and 592 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:41,680 Speaker 2: really think about what we're saying here. We're saying supplements 593 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:44,120 Speaker 2: are supplemental things. 594 00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 3: Right. 595 00:28:44,880 --> 00:28:49,600 Speaker 1: The words that Danielle used were like crutch band aid. 596 00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 3: Right. 597 00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 2: We need to think about what is the root problem 598 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 2: and if the root problem is not a super easy 599 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,200 Speaker 2: thing to take care of, then yeah, there are supplements 600 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,120 Speaker 2: that can help while we're trying to figure out the 601 00:29:01,160 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 2: root problem. 602 00:29:01,840 --> 00:29:04,680 Speaker 4: So for example, when we're traveling. 603 00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 1: That's a great time to supplement our needs. And sleep 604 00:29:09,880 --> 00:29:10,880 Speaker 1: is a skill. 605 00:29:10,760 --> 00:29:11,880 Speaker 4: That we can actually work on. 606 00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 1: We have to develop it like any other skill. 607 00:29:15,120 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 4: It takes work, it takes time. That's right. 608 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 2: We hope that this podcast has become a supplement to 609 00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:22,719 Speaker 2: your other podcast listening. 610 00:29:22,720 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 4: See what I did there gain. 611 00:29:23,720 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: Eight, Adam, sometimes your jokes could be classified sleep supplements. 612 00:29:28,280 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 4: Whatever I can do to help people sleep better. 613 00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,480 Speaker 1: We hope you'll go into your podcast player, rate and 614 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:34,880 Speaker 1: review the show and tell us what you think. 615 00:29:34,960 --> 00:29:35,160 Speaker 3: You know. 616 00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,560 Speaker 1: You can always find me on the instagrams at ktq. 617 00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,320 Speaker 2: Low's and you can find me at Shabby Shafts, and 618 00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:43,600 Speaker 2: don't forget to follow or subscribe to make sure that 619 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 2: you get our next episode. 620 00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,680 Speaker 4: When we commune with nature. 621 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,000 Speaker 1: Yes, or like, we live in Los Angeles and maybe 622 00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:54,360 Speaker 1: we should be playing ocean sounds when we're sleeping instead 623 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: of hearing city sounds or birds chirping. I think nature 624 00:29:58,360 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: has a huge effect on quality of s. 625 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:00,880 Speaker 4: I'd like it. 626 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: Next time it's sleep and Nature on Chasing Sleep. Until 627 00:30:06,160 --> 00:30:09,240 Speaker 1: next time, hope you are living your best while sleeping 628 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:10,200 Speaker 1: your best. 629 00:30:10,680 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 2: Chasing Sleep is a production of Ruby Studios from iHeartMedia 630 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,520 Speaker 2: in partnership with Mattress Firm. Our executive producer is Molly Soshia. 631 00:30:18,680 --> 00:30:21,320 Speaker 1: This show was written and produced by sal Matt Brands, 632 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:24,240 Speaker 1: Dave be Sing, Jason Jackson, and Michelle Rice. 633 00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,560 Speaker 2: Chasing Sleep is hosted by Katie Lows and Adam Shapiro. 634 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 1: That's Us thank you to our partners at Mattress Firm,