1
00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:09,200
Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. I'm Tom Keane, along

2
00:00:09,240 --> 00:00:13,200
Speaker 1: with Jonathan Ferrell and Lisa Brownwitz Jailey. We bring you

3
00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:18,600
Speaker 1: insight from the best and economics, finance, investment, and international relations.

4
00:00:18,960 --> 00:00:23,840
Speaker 1: Find Bloomberg Surveillance on Apple Podcast, Suncloud, Bloomberg dot Com,

5
00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:30,520
Speaker 1: and of course on the Bloomberg Terminal. Sarah House has

6
00:00:30,560 --> 00:00:32,560
Speaker 1: no idea what we're talking about. She'll save us with

7
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,320
Speaker 1: Wells Fargo, their senior economists. Sarah, this is an exceptional

8
00:00:37,479 --> 00:00:42,640
Speaker 1: statement and report for Jerome Powell. I think this is

9
00:00:42,880 --> 00:00:45,239
Speaker 1: another report for a second month in a row that

10
00:00:45,320 --> 00:00:48,280
Speaker 1: does give a lot of credence to that transitory debate.

11
00:00:48,640 --> 00:00:50,760
Speaker 1: So I think we still see some quite a bit

12
00:00:50,800 --> 00:00:52,919
Speaker 1: of pressure coming through the pipeline if you look at

13
00:00:52,960 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 1: what's happening, both in terms of supply change on the

14
00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:58,800
Speaker 1: good side, what's happening with labor and wages. But I

15
00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,680
Speaker 1: think what we're seeing is at most eye popping rate

16
00:01:01,720 --> 00:01:04,880
Speaker 1: of inflation we saw this spring is coming off the boil,

17
00:01:04,959 --> 00:01:07,040
Speaker 1: and I do think that gives the Fed a little

18
00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:09,319
Speaker 1: bit more time to wait some progress in the labor market.

19
00:01:11,440 --> 00:01:14,240
Speaker 1: I look, Sarah at the labor market and ties and

20
00:01:14,280 --> 00:01:18,720
Speaker 1: how does this inflation report tie into wage inflation? Are

21
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:22,560
Speaker 1: they linked well? I think where you're seeing some of

22
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:25,000
Speaker 1: the some of the give back in things like used

23
00:01:25,040 --> 00:01:27,399
Speaker 1: cars prices, I think that is somewhat divorced from what

24
00:01:27,440 --> 00:01:30,120
Speaker 1: we're actually seeing in the labor market. So even as

25
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:32,040
Speaker 1: we did see a little bit of soft mean in

26
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:34,720
Speaker 1: the rate of food inflation, we're still seeing quite a

27
00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:37,880
Speaker 1: bit of pressure in the restaurant sector, even in in

28
00:01:37,920 --> 00:01:39,760
Speaker 1: grocery stores. And I think if you look at the

29
00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:42,360
Speaker 1: run rate there and in terms of the monthly print,

30
00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,399
Speaker 1: you're you're still seeing strong numbers. And so I think, um,

31
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:48,040
Speaker 1: we are seeing some of that wage pressure begin to

32
00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,880
Speaker 1: filter through, and I think in many areas it's it's

33
00:01:50,920 --> 00:01:54,480
Speaker 1: just beginning to start, particularly in the service side, where

34
00:01:54,480 --> 00:01:56,720
Speaker 1: it does take longer to show up in the inflation numbers.

35
00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:58,280
Speaker 1: What kind of number do you think would make the

36
00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:00,560
Speaker 1: FED comfortable at the town of the year, Sarah, What

37
00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:02,320
Speaker 1: do you think they need to see? Does a three

38
00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:03,840
Speaker 1: handle get it down? Do they give them the comfort

39
00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:08,040
Speaker 1: to say, yes, it's transitree, let's stick with this. I

40
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:10,080
Speaker 1: think it's more about the numbers you're seeing in an

41
00:02:10,080 --> 00:02:13,799
Speaker 1: inflation expectation. So Yes, we had a very hot consumer

42
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:17,200
Speaker 1: inflation expectations number coming from the New York Siety yesterday.

43
00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:19,480
Speaker 1: But if you look at the FEDS preferred measure, that

44
00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: Common Inflation Index, it's still well within its historic range.

45
00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,440
Speaker 1: So that's taking into account what's happening in tips markets,

46
00:02:26,480 --> 00:02:29,440
Speaker 1: what's happening with the Michigan numbers, and well, you've seen

47
00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:33,560
Speaker 1: inflation expectations pick up, there's still at levels that are

48
00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:37,160
Speaker 1: overall consistent with the FEDS, with the FEDS target, and

49
00:02:37,200 --> 00:02:39,120
Speaker 1: so I think that buys them time no matter what

50
00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:41,720
Speaker 1: you're seeing in terms of the CORPC tof later even

51
00:02:42,200 --> 00:02:44,280
Speaker 1: or headline inflation at the end of the year. So

52
00:02:44,280 --> 00:02:46,480
Speaker 1: if you're just chanting to get on READYO on CVS downside,

53
00:02:46,480 --> 00:02:49,720
Speaker 1: surprise time on the inflation print team transit treat getting

54
00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:51,760
Speaker 1: a win hit scoring a girl future is positive full

55
00:02:51,800 --> 00:02:54,840
Speaker 1: tenth of one percent on the SMP advancing, there's seventeen

56
00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:57,600
Speaker 1: points on a SMP yields not doing much off the

57
00:02:57,639 --> 00:03:00,120
Speaker 1: back of this number. Later this comes down to oneing

58
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:02,359
Speaker 1: now reachs house sales print, then SA to the Fed

59
00:03:02,639 --> 00:03:04,359
Speaker 1: next week. Yeah, I mean, there's a couple of ways

60
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,160
Speaker 1: to read this, and one hand it could be transitory

61
00:03:06,200 --> 00:03:07,880
Speaker 1: the Fed's getting what they want. In the other hand,

62
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,680
Speaker 1: this could be that perhaps the economy is softening more

63
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:14,080
Speaker 1: than expected at a time when we have a prolonged pandemic. Sarah,

64
00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:16,400
Speaker 1: can you weigh in on what this means? If the

65
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:18,679
Speaker 1: FED is not getting what they want, if you don't

66
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:22,079
Speaker 1: see necessarily material labor market improvement like we didn't necessarily

67
00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:25,640
Speaker 1: with a disappointing previous report, what do they do? Do

68
00:03:25,720 --> 00:03:28,080
Speaker 1: they just keep printing money? I mean, do they just

69
00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:31,280
Speaker 1: keep buying bonds? Or they have to change their guidance

70
00:03:31,320 --> 00:03:35,400
Speaker 1: in an additional way. I think they you continue to

71
00:03:35,400 --> 00:03:37,960
Speaker 1: see the status quo, so I think you just get taper.

72
00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:41,280
Speaker 1: The taper gets pushed off further. Um. So I think

73
00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:44,680
Speaker 1: this print suggests that maybe tips the scales a little

74
00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: bit more in favor of December rather than a November announcement.

75
00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:52,400
Speaker 1: But I think they keep the current policy in place

76
00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:54,080
Speaker 1: for a little bit longer. You know, I think it's

77
00:03:54,120 --> 00:03:56,240
Speaker 1: important to remember that while yes, we did get a

78
00:03:56,240 --> 00:03:59,720
Speaker 1: disappointing employment report in August, we're still adding jobs. We're

79
00:03:59,720 --> 00:04:02,480
Speaker 1: still seeing the unemployment rate decline. You shall seeing at

80
00:04:02,520 --> 00:04:05,920
Speaker 1: least some movement in terms of labor force participation and

81
00:04:05,920 --> 00:04:10,000
Speaker 1: and the supply, even if it is slow, but accumulatively, accumulatively,

82
00:04:10,120 --> 00:04:12,920
Speaker 1: you're still seeing things move in the right direction. You

83
00:04:12,920 --> 00:04:16,240
Speaker 1: are getting closer to to the feds um to the

84
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,760
Speaker 1: Fed's goals. It's just maybe taken a little bit longer,

85
00:04:18,800 --> 00:04:21,320
Speaker 1: and so that's gonna have them keep policy in place longer.

86
00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,159
Speaker 1: Will we look forward to that retail sales figure later

87
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:26,960
Speaker 1: in the week, Sarah, what is the consumer able to

88
00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:29,240
Speaker 1: do at this point given the roll off of some

89
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,720
Speaker 1: of the stimulus checks and the fact that people still

90
00:04:31,760 --> 00:04:34,520
Speaker 1: are not necessarily getting back into a labor market still

91
00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:39,360
Speaker 1: hobbled in parts by COVID, Right, So I think we're

92
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,600
Speaker 1: going to see a pretty weak number. And when it

93
00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:43,640
Speaker 1: comes to the retail sales, part of that has to

94
00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,760
Speaker 1: do with the fact of what we're seeing in terms

95
00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:48,719
Speaker 1: of autos, just where how much we saw sales plummet.

96
00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:50,640
Speaker 1: But I think if you look at the overall position

97
00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:54,120
Speaker 1: of consumers, so we are seeing it weaken a little bit.

98
00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:57,040
Speaker 1: So balance sheets are still good, you shtill have access savings,

99
00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,760
Speaker 1: but given the run rate of inflation of late, even

100
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,359
Speaker 1: with today's softer number, it's woodling a way of ethose savings.

101
00:05:04,520 --> 00:05:07,880
Speaker 1: So when you factor in also the unemployment benefits rolling off,

102
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:11,000
Speaker 1: that that buying power of consumers is weakening. And so

103
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:14,680
Speaker 1: that does suggest that you are at least getting somewhat

104
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:19,520
Speaker 1: closer to the supplying demand uh imbalance coming coming better aligned.

105
00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,039
Speaker 1: But it's going to take some time, Sarah. Let me

106
00:05:22,200 --> 00:05:25,039
Speaker 1: talk the unspeakable here, which I believe I haven't heard

107
00:05:25,120 --> 00:05:28,160
Speaker 1: come up. What if this is a FED. I'm looking here,

108
00:05:28,200 --> 00:05:31,320
Speaker 1: folks at the wonderful f O m C function on

109
00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:35,440
Speaker 1: the Bloomberg. What if this is a FED that's not September,

110
00:05:35,720 --> 00:05:39,479
Speaker 1: not December, but has to stagger to the decision tree

111
00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:44,120
Speaker 1: of January of next year. What is its signal if

112
00:05:44,160 --> 00:05:47,720
Speaker 1: they have to wait, wait, wait, Well, I think it

113
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,640
Speaker 1: suggests that to some extent the virus is still very

114
00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,080
Speaker 1: much in control. So I don't think it's completely out

115
00:05:54,120 --> 00:05:57,160
Speaker 1: of out of the room possibility that even as we're

116
00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,719
Speaker 1: seeing delta cases level off, you get another way of

117
00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:02,359
Speaker 1: calm from the winter. And so I think it suggests

118
00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,480
Speaker 1: that this is not the necessarily the rapid immediate rebound

119
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,839
Speaker 1: a lot of folks were looking for earlier earlier this spring.

120
00:06:09,839 --> 00:06:12,240
Speaker 1: But there's still a lot to work through both in

121
00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:14,720
Speaker 1: terms of the virus. There's still a lot of frictions

122
00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:17,320
Speaker 1: in the economy, whether it's to the labor market or

123
00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,000
Speaker 1: supply chains, and those are going to take some time

124
00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,279
Speaker 1: to work out, and so the FED might might have

125
00:06:22,440 --> 00:06:26,279
Speaker 1: to to hold hold course for for someone longer. Sarah,

126
00:06:26,279 --> 00:06:28,080
Speaker 1: thank you. Always go to hit from you Santa House

127
00:06:28,120 --> 00:06:37,479
Speaker 1: West founda security senior economists also associated with US as

128
00:06:37,520 --> 00:06:42,119
Speaker 1: Barry Dholtz, Bloomerg opinion columnists D Holts Wealth Management. Barry,

129
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 1: thank you so much for joining. I love your essay

130
00:06:44,520 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 1: this weekend Housing. We need a new dishwasher. The some

131
00:06:48,839 --> 00:06:52,680
Speaker 1: pump has been used in Hurricane Ida. I love home ownership.

132
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,080
Speaker 1: Is it worth it? You've got to live somewhere a right,

133
00:06:56,360 --> 00:06:59,880
Speaker 1: And as someone who's lived in rentals and owned conda

134
00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:04,120
Speaker 1: and my own house, it's nice not to live in

135
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:11,320
Speaker 1: a off white no change to any of the living circumstances.

136
00:07:11,680 --> 00:07:14,760
Speaker 1: The old joke is no one washes a rented car,

137
00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,320
Speaker 1: nobody improves a rented apartment. So if you want an

138
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:22,760
Speaker 1: updated kitchen, if you want to paint your house a

139
00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,240
Speaker 1: different color or put in new carpet of stuff, ownership

140
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:29,200
Speaker 1: is how you manage to do that. A lot of

141
00:07:29,240 --> 00:07:31,920
Speaker 1: the metrics that show that real estate is a bad

142
00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 1: investment kind of ignore the fact that as an owner occupier,

143
00:07:37,440 --> 00:07:41,120
Speaker 1: you gotta live somewhere, and that's where homeowners came well.

144
00:07:41,360 --> 00:07:43,640
Speaker 1: But you know, I mean the home renovation A Brando said,

145
00:07:43,680 --> 00:07:45,800
Speaker 1: a renovation it was a quarter of a million dollars.

146
00:07:45,880 --> 00:07:48,040
Speaker 1: But you know, Barry, when you when you look at

147
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:52,440
Speaker 1: home ownership, what's the actual phenominal or real return of

148
00:07:52,520 --> 00:07:58,040
Speaker 1: home ownership versus owning the standard? In real terms, it's

149
00:07:58,080 --> 00:08:01,680
Speaker 1: probably flat to negative. Once you work in, you gotta

150
00:08:01,720 --> 00:08:05,360
Speaker 1: pay taxes, there's a ton of maintenance and upkeep um

151
00:08:06,520 --> 00:08:09,880
Speaker 1: net relative to inflation. You're lucky if it's a break

152
00:08:09,920 --> 00:08:13,120
Speaker 1: even if not worse, but it keeps coming back to

153
00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:16,240
Speaker 1: what you pay is a key issue. And the thing

154
00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:19,960
Speaker 1: to remember is if you're putting ten percent down and

155
00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:23,720
Speaker 1: you're not buying the property out right, um, it's a

156
00:08:24,000 --> 00:08:26,000
Speaker 1: there's a lot of leverage in that, and so those

157
00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:30,320
Speaker 1: return characteristics are different than let's say black Stone running

158
00:08:30,320 --> 00:08:34,880
Speaker 1: around and buying up multifamily units and farmland and everything else. Um.

159
00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:37,560
Speaker 1: Just to be very clear, the quarter a million dollar

160
00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:40,840
Speaker 1: right and renovation really accounts for basically putting in a

161
00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:44,360
Speaker 1: new divider for my silverware. So it's not exactly the

162
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:46,440
Speaker 1: same scale. I will just say that just to set

163
00:08:46,480 --> 00:08:49,280
Speaker 1: the scale straight. Very just sort of follow on though

164
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:51,720
Speaker 1: with this idea we started talking about banks. We moved

165
00:08:51,760 --> 00:08:55,440
Speaker 1: the real estate market a pivotal moment for urban areas

166
00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:57,160
Speaker 1: as we try to get back to the office at

167
00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,120
Speaker 1: a time where the variant is really delaying a lot

168
00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,160
Speaker 1: of those plans to get back to the office. How

169
00:09:02,240 --> 00:09:04,679
Speaker 1: significant is it the longer that some of these two

170
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:09,479
Speaker 1: lays go on for property values in urban centers. So

171
00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:12,320
Speaker 1: so it's that's a really complex question. And I'll give

172
00:09:12,360 --> 00:09:17,040
Speaker 1: you like a thirty thousand foot view. When you look

173
00:09:17,080 --> 00:09:20,960
Speaker 1: around places like San Francisco, in Manhattan, there's a ton

174
00:09:21,080 --> 00:09:24,320
Speaker 1: of new office space that has gone up to meet

175
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:29,600
Speaker 1: the pre pandemic demand. Suddenly, the pandemic has taught us, hey,

176
00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:32,439
Speaker 1: we've really been inefficient in how we use our time,

177
00:09:32,920 --> 00:09:37,120
Speaker 1: both going to the office, commuting, etcetera. And so it

178
00:09:37,240 --> 00:09:41,200
Speaker 1: appears that there's now an excess of office space and

179
00:09:41,760 --> 00:09:44,119
Speaker 1: a shortage of I don't even want to say affordable

180
00:09:44,160 --> 00:09:48,480
Speaker 1: house and just reasonably priced housing in major cities and

181
00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:50,680
Speaker 1: if you remember, we we just went through the twenty

182
00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,640
Speaker 1: year anniversary of No. Eleven Post No eleven Lower Manhattan

183
00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:59,160
Speaker 1: converted to a very residential area, lots and lots of

184
00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,520
Speaker 1: office buildings converted. I wouldn't be surprised to see something

185
00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,040
Speaker 1: like that take place over the next couple of years

186
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:11,880
Speaker 1: in major urban centers to adjust that that imbalance between

187
00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,040
Speaker 1: supply and demand for both too much office space and

188
00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,480
Speaker 1: too little residential space. So going forward, are you going

189
00:10:18,520 --> 00:10:20,480
Speaker 1: back to the office And we talked a lot about

190
00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,160
Speaker 1: this back in the day, and I'm wondering, given your

191
00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,160
Speaker 1: read on the breath of Wall Street in terms of

192
00:10:25,200 --> 00:10:27,880
Speaker 1: what they're doing, where they are working for, what's the

193
00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:31,599
Speaker 1: zeitgeist right now on that front. So a handful of

194
00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:35,480
Speaker 1: companies originally had September fifteenth as their target. A bunch

195
00:10:35,520 --> 00:10:38,679
Speaker 1: has been pushed pushed back to October fift I've been

196
00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:41,960
Speaker 1: trying to get into the city at least once a week, um,

197
00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:46,520
Speaker 1: and as has all my colleagues in the office. UM. Now,

198
00:10:46,679 --> 00:10:49,480
Speaker 1: the there's a chicken and egg issue in that a

199
00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:52,360
Speaker 1: lot of mass transit has been running on weekend schedules,

200
00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:56,480
Speaker 1: not normal peak commute schedules. I think a bunch of

201
00:10:56,480 --> 00:11:00,280
Speaker 1: that along railroad Metro North. I think that return earns

202
00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:02,959
Speaker 1: back to its normal schedule, or it was scheduled to

203
00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,160
Speaker 1: September fift so once you can. I was at a

204
00:11:07,160 --> 00:11:10,040
Speaker 1: conference yesterday at the Javit Center, at the SALT Conference,

205
00:11:10,440 --> 00:11:13,160
Speaker 1: and on the way home yesterday at to thirty, it

206
00:11:13,200 --> 00:11:16,360
Speaker 1: was bumped upumper traffic in a car, and I think

207
00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,439
Speaker 1: that's because people are uncomfortable either riding the trains or

208
00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,560
Speaker 1: they're just running to and frequently. Once things get back

209
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:26,520
Speaker 1: to normal on the commuter rails and other forms of

210
00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,520
Speaker 1: mass transit, you're gonna start to see people move back

211
00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:32,200
Speaker 1: into the office a little more regularly. Very thank you.

212
00:11:32,280 --> 00:11:35,480
Speaker 1: How is the SALT conference? It was interesting. I sat

213
00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:39,960
Speaker 1: down with Steve Cohen of Points seventy two and Dmitri Blisanis,

214
00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:46,160
Speaker 1: Mike Rockefeller of um Woodbine and Alana um Gold. Seemed fascinating,

215
00:11:46,160 --> 00:11:49,520
Speaker 1: fascinating conversation. Nobody cares. What did say about the Mets.

216
00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:52,760
Speaker 1: He's having a lot of fun with the team, he's

217
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:57,160
Speaker 1: excited about upcoming changes, and he thinks they are going

218
00:11:57,200 --> 00:11:59,880
Speaker 1: to be a contender sooner rather than later. It was

219
00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:04,800
Speaker 1: really interesting discussion. What was fascinating about walking around the

220
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,120
Speaker 1: event with him, is people stopping him to talk about

221
00:12:08,120 --> 00:12:11,280
Speaker 1: the Mets. No one wants to talk about exactly. That's

222
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:15,520
Speaker 1: why they want to talk about. I mean, Barry, when

223
00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:16,920
Speaker 1: you buy the Knicks, it will be the same way,

224
00:12:16,920 --> 00:12:20,040
Speaker 1: Barry Redhold. Thank you so much, Opinion dot com. This

225
00:12:24,880 --> 00:12:28,760
Speaker 1: is a really really important conversation. Is my head your had?

226
00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,240
Speaker 1: Everybody else has had swirls on the pandemic. Amish Adalgia

227
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:38,480
Speaker 1: has been extremely competent in engaging the debate worldwide over

228
00:12:38,559 --> 00:12:43,000
Speaker 1: a perfect solution to pandemic to virology. He is with

229
00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,280
Speaker 1: Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security and joins US right now.

230
00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:51,040
Speaker 1: Dr Delja I was thunderstruck that Auckland looks for perfection.

231
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,160
Speaker 1: They have thirty three new cases one point seven million people.

232
00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:58,720
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm gonna dazzle you. Now, Amish two

233
00:12:58,760 --> 00:13:03,320
Speaker 1: times ten to the minor six scientific notation. We got

234
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,000
Speaker 1: to go to folks. It's a tenC weed see amount

235
00:13:06,080 --> 00:13:09,320
Speaker 1: that's ill. How do you respond to their attempt to

236
00:13:09,480 --> 00:13:12,880
Speaker 1: be perfect? I don't think it's the right approach. I

237
00:13:12,920 --> 00:13:15,120
Speaker 1: think that this is something that's popular in New Zealand,

238
00:13:15,160 --> 00:13:17,440
Speaker 1: but it doesn't really justify what they do. Their level

239
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:21,560
Speaker 1: three and level four lockdowns are really borrowing from the

240
00:13:21,640 --> 00:13:25,200
Speaker 1: Chinese playbook. And I don't think that they're the way

241
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:28,000
Speaker 1: that they're so blanket they they pick up so many

242
00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:31,240
Speaker 1: activities that aren't leading to spread, that don't allow people

243
00:13:31,280 --> 00:13:33,520
Speaker 1: to do things and a safer manner, for example, go

244
00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:35,920
Speaker 1: outside or not have to wear a mask when they're outside,

245
00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:37,880
Speaker 1: or even be able to get take out dining when

246
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:41,040
Speaker 1: they're under level for lockdown. So I don't necessarily think

247
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,000
Speaker 1: what they've done is correct, but they are vociferous defenders

248
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,920
Speaker 1: of it, as I found out when you criticize them.

249
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,240
Speaker 1: But it is something that I think really needs to

250
00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:51,800
Speaker 1: be examined because it's not sustainable. And they have about

251
00:13:51,840 --> 00:13:54,640
Speaker 1: thirty percent of their population fully vaccinated. That's that's not

252
00:13:54,679 --> 00:13:57,040
Speaker 1: a lot, and that their rates are going up, but

253
00:13:57,240 --> 00:13:58,600
Speaker 1: they don't think we need to do this in the

254
00:13:58,640 --> 00:14:01,520
Speaker 1: in the post vaccine era. And also we've got rapid tests,

255
00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:03,600
Speaker 1: we've got so much technology to allow people to do

256
00:14:03,679 --> 00:14:07,040
Speaker 1: things safely that this absinence only approach, even if it's popular,

257
00:14:07,600 --> 00:14:10,480
Speaker 1: shouldn't be what's done and definitely shouldn't be enforced with

258
00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:12,920
Speaker 1: with police the way they do in New Zealand. I

259
00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:16,520
Speaker 1: don't sense it in America, but maybe I'm uninformed. Do

260
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:20,400
Speaker 1: we have elements of New Zealand from sea to Shining Sea.

261
00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:24,920
Speaker 1: We don't. We've had some aspects of it, For example,

262
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:27,480
Speaker 1: when you look at California, which had a very strict

263
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,120
Speaker 1: restriction on indoor dining or an outdoor dining as well,

264
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,640
Speaker 1: and you still saw cases really going up in California

265
00:14:33,680 --> 00:14:35,920
Speaker 1: because what that was doing, that absence only approach in

266
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,560
Speaker 1: California was driving behavior underground where it was more risky.

267
00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:41,560
Speaker 1: And I think the lesson from this pandemic is that

268
00:14:41,640 --> 00:14:44,560
Speaker 1: harm reduction something that we do with HIV was sexually

269
00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:47,200
Speaker 1: transmitted infections. That's the way we want to approach public

270
00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:50,280
Speaker 1: health with voluntary means, trying to give people tools to

271
00:14:50,280 --> 00:14:52,280
Speaker 1: make better risk calculations. No one we're never going to

272
00:14:52,360 --> 00:14:53,840
Speaker 1: get cases to ze or that there's going to be

273
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:56,920
Speaker 1: a baseline number of cases hospitalizations invest but just trying

274
00:14:56,920 --> 00:14:59,360
Speaker 1: to keep our hospitals from going into crisis. And I

275
00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,960
Speaker 1: think we should have of doing that back from January.

276
00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,440
Speaker 1: And I don't think that the US is a good

277
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:06,200
Speaker 1: example here. I think they're both false alternatives New Zealand

278
00:15:06,240 --> 00:15:07,800
Speaker 1: And in the United States and there is a better

279
00:15:07,800 --> 00:15:11,400
Speaker 1: way away like countries like Taiwan, followed Dr ADLTA. In

280
00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,520
Speaker 1: the meantime, the debate over booster shots continues to heat up,

281
00:15:14,520 --> 00:15:17,240
Speaker 1: and just on a Arrival Network, Dr Fauci has been

282
00:15:17,280 --> 00:15:19,400
Speaker 1: speaking and he's saying that he does expect the FDA

283
00:15:19,680 --> 00:15:24,680
Speaker 1: to decide to give boosters. Meanwhile, several FDA members have resigned,

284
00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,240
Speaker 1: saying that it's unnecessary or perhaps scientifically unpacked. Where do

285
00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:30,960
Speaker 1: you fit into this in terms of the need or

286
00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:34,800
Speaker 1: lack there of of boosters? To meet the threshold for

287
00:15:34,800 --> 00:15:37,720
Speaker 1: needing a booster would have be someone that's fully vaccinated

288
00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,120
Speaker 1: getting a breakthrough infection that lands them in the hospital.

289
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,360
Speaker 1: That's just not happening. There's definitely probably going to be

290
00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:46,120
Speaker 1: some need for boosters down the road, but I don't

291
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,160
Speaker 1: think it's going to be on September twenty or six

292
00:15:48,160 --> 00:15:50,120
Speaker 1: months or eight months post to your second does. It's

293
00:15:50,120 --> 00:15:52,000
Speaker 1: something we need to be proactive about, but I don't

294
00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:54,000
Speaker 1: think we're ready to pull the trigger for healthy people.

295
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,280
Speaker 1: There may be an argument to be made for the

296
00:15:56,320 --> 00:15:59,160
Speaker 1: elderly people in nursing homes, but that also needs to

297
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 1: be driven by clinical data, not just looking at antibody

298
00:16:01,680 --> 00:16:05,080
Speaker 1: levels coming down, but actually seeing do people get severe

299
00:16:05,160 --> 00:16:08,280
Speaker 1: infections this this many months out from their vaccination, and

300
00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:10,960
Speaker 1: does a third dose not only boost their antibodies but

301
00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,480
Speaker 1: doesn't actually protect them against that. So we want clinical data.

302
00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,880
Speaker 1: We want this to be driven by the usual process

303
00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,760
Speaker 1: of the CDC, the f d A and all that

304
00:16:18,880 --> 00:16:21,200
Speaker 1: data being published so that people can actually look through

305
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 1: it and sift through it. Not something that's get that's

306
00:16:23,200 --> 00:16:25,920
Speaker 1: primarily being announced by the White House. That's that's triggering

307
00:16:26,080 --> 00:16:28,880
Speaker 1: people at the FDA to announce their retirement into writing

308
00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,760
Speaker 1: medical journals opposing it. Dr Adlgia. What's the potential concern

309
00:16:32,880 --> 00:16:35,960
Speaker 1: here about giving boosters? Is there any scientific evidence of

310
00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 1: harm or that it doesn't really affect things at all,

311
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,880
Speaker 1: or is it simply a matter of distribution of vaccine

312
00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,960
Speaker 1: and trying to get unvaccinated vaccinated throughout the world as

313
00:16:45,000 --> 00:16:49,160
Speaker 1: quickly as possible. There's probably not a major harm signal.

314
00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,760
Speaker 1: But again, if you read what the FDA, the departing

315
00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:54,920
Speaker 1: FDA members wrote, they're worried about side effects that might

316
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:56,800
Speaker 1: occur if that third dose is too close to the

317
00:16:56,840 --> 00:16:59,040
Speaker 1: second dose, or or what that might do to the

318
00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,520
Speaker 1: reacting genicity of the vaccine. But again, this is something

319
00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:03,640
Speaker 1: that can be solved and answered with clinical data, just

320
00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:05,359
Speaker 1: to look and see what happens to people who get

321
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:07,480
Speaker 1: a third dose. And that's what's really missing, or at

322
00:17:07,520 --> 00:17:09,720
Speaker 1: least hasn't been presented publicly, and and that's why I

323
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:13,080
Speaker 1: think you've seen such a backlash against this plan from

324
00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:16,080
Speaker 1: the infectious disease community. With a few few notable exceptions,

325
00:17:16,080 --> 00:17:18,480
Speaker 1: but in general, most of us don't think, for healthy

326
00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:21,880
Speaker 1: people that we're ready to recommend boosters in the absence

327
00:17:21,880 --> 00:17:24,240
Speaker 1: of data. And it's important to remember what's happening in

328
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:27,000
Speaker 1: the United States with with the number of hospitalizations and

329
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,000
Speaker 1: worries about crisis and places like Idaho and Kentucky. That's

330
00:17:30,040 --> 00:17:32,320
Speaker 1: not going to be solved by third doses. It's first

331
00:17:32,359 --> 00:17:34,080
Speaker 1: and second doses that solved that. And I think that's

332
00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:36,240
Speaker 1: where the focus needs to be. And I think that

333
00:17:36,680 --> 00:17:38,520
Speaker 1: we can prepare for boosters, get ready, but make sure

334
00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,360
Speaker 1: that we do this right so that people have confidence

335
00:17:40,359 --> 00:17:43,879
Speaker 1: that the process actually was scientifically driven and not driven

336
00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:47,200
Speaker 1: by any other considerations. Don't to thank you for it's

337
00:17:47,240 --> 00:17:48,840
Speaker 1: on this small and I guess O wise, don't hamish

338
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,760
Speaker 1: it down to that of Jones Hopkin's sense of house security.

339
00:17:52,000 --> 00:18:00,880
Speaker 1: They seen the Escala on the equity market. Christopher Gercanti

340
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,280
Speaker 1: joins us right now with m Ai Capital a droid.

341
00:18:04,600 --> 00:18:07,040
Speaker 1: US usually start with a general phrase, Chris, but I

342
00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:08,880
Speaker 1: know you're gonna be hanging on every word at one

343
00:18:08,920 --> 00:18:12,199
Speaker 1: pm on Apple? Can you own Apple here? You've been

344
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:16,160
Speaker 1: a long term affiliate of Apple. Can you go long

345
00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:19,480
Speaker 1: Apple right now? Sure? Tom, I think if you're a

346
00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:22,160
Speaker 1: long term investor, you know there's there's hardly a better

347
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,720
Speaker 1: run company, hardly better company with market position. Having said that,

348
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:30,399
Speaker 1: we don't currently own Apple. We prefer some of the

349
00:18:30,440 --> 00:18:35,920
Speaker 1: other fang stocks, mostly because it's, uh, it's a combination evaluation.

350
00:18:36,040 --> 00:18:39,439
Speaker 1: Plus they've almost outdone themselves. I mean, the iPhone is

351
00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,399
Speaker 1: so good that we're not expecting much from today's launch.

352
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,240
Speaker 1: I think a few incremental changes, a better camera. So

353
00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,399
Speaker 1: you know, I'm a little afraid that at this lofty

354
00:18:48,480 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 1: valuation of thirty times, that's gonna that's gonna disappoint. Can

355
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,639
Speaker 1: we get to the story over Amazon, Chris, it's not

356
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,600
Speaker 1: a stokey hold it is. Can you tell me why

357
00:18:57,600 --> 00:18:59,119
Speaker 1: in a world where they might have to pay up

358
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:00,959
Speaker 1: a lot more for light. But this is a big

359
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:05,800
Speaker 1: employer in America. Now, sure, well, Jonathan, there are so

360
00:19:05,840 --> 00:19:09,080
Speaker 1: many ways to win. I mean, clearly this is old news.

361
00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:11,960
Speaker 1: But but just point to a WS a Amazon Web

362
00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,480
Speaker 1: Services where they created, you know, a multi billion dollar

363
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:18,359
Speaker 1: company out of nothing, and that that we estimate is

364
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,880
Speaker 1: now worth about four hundred billion dollars. So there's that,

365
00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,160
Speaker 1: there's prime um, there's the international growth. So sure, just

366
00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:28,639
Speaker 1: like every other corporation in America, they're going to have

367
00:19:28,680 --> 00:19:31,679
Speaker 1: to pay more for labor. That doesn't uh mess up

368
00:19:31,680 --> 00:19:34,000
Speaker 1: our investment thesis. Maybe it cuts the margin of per

369
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,440
Speaker 1: cent or two, but I think long term, I'm pleased

370
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,439
Speaker 1: to be a holder of Amazon. Chris, So, you've been

371
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,760
Speaker 1: a bull, and you've been an unapologetic bull, and you're

372
00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,840
Speaker 1: saying that all of the pessimists right now want to

373
00:19:43,000 --> 00:19:45,960
Speaker 1: sound smart. However, that has not been a good way

374
00:19:46,080 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: to make money. When you talk about making money, why

375
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:50,840
Speaker 1: do you like Boeing? Why do you like some of

376
00:19:50,880 --> 00:19:54,360
Speaker 1: the outliers that frankly continued to be souring in many

377
00:19:54,359 --> 00:19:56,800
Speaker 1: people's fears are well, as Tom always teases me, you know,

378
00:19:56,840 --> 00:20:01,480
Speaker 1: I'm a contrarian. So it's very hard. Buying stocks today

379
00:20:01,520 --> 00:20:04,119
Speaker 1: is like going to the produce department in the market

380
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:07,120
Speaker 1: at six o'clock at night. Everything is picked over. It's

381
00:20:07,320 --> 00:20:10,280
Speaker 1: really hard to find something good. So Bowing has a

382
00:20:10,280 --> 00:20:12,320
Speaker 1: lot of hair on it. But believe me, okay, it's

383
00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:16,080
Speaker 1: sasquatch basically. But if you look three to five years

384
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 1: out from now, when COVID is a grim memory, where

385
00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:21,879
Speaker 1: the middle class all over the world is looking for

386
00:20:21,920 --> 00:20:24,440
Speaker 1: more airline seats and there's only two companies that can

387
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:28,240
Speaker 1: satisfy them, I think Bowing, which is selling for half

388
00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:31,119
Speaker 1: the price it was two years ago, is one of

389
00:20:31,119 --> 00:20:33,880
Speaker 1: the few attractive things in the market today. Well, let's

390
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,840
Speaker 1: talk about Bowing. Is it a cyclical? You know, it

391
00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:39,560
Speaker 1: didn't used to be. Tom. It's funny if you do

392
00:20:39,600 --> 00:20:42,600
Speaker 1: a regression analysis, and you'll love this, your stat guy,

393
00:20:42,720 --> 00:20:44,800
Speaker 1: If you do a regression analysis against Bowing in the

394
00:20:44,880 --> 00:20:47,640
Speaker 1: last two years, it correlates very closely with the airlines,

395
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 1: But for the five or six years before that it

396
00:20:50,440 --> 00:20:53,680
Speaker 1: does not. And in other words, in good times when

397
00:20:53,720 --> 00:20:57,000
Speaker 1: we don't have a worldwide pandemic, Bowing is not a cyclical.

398
00:20:57,080 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 1: It's a worldwide It's a world leading manufacturing company that

399
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:03,960
Speaker 1: has terrific margins and terrific returns on equity. So it

400
00:21:04,119 --> 00:21:06,520
Speaker 1: is it. I think it's a chance to buy a

401
00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,200
Speaker 1: great company that's being labeled today as a cycle. Take

402
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,520
Speaker 1: me step back, Chris, when you talk about being a

403
00:21:12,560 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: bull in this environment, it really does come down to

404
00:21:15,440 --> 00:21:19,320
Speaker 1: relative valuations in addition to a fundamental story. But how

405
00:21:19,359 --> 00:21:22,400
Speaker 1: comparable is the relative value story at a time when

406
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 1: people think that bond deals are going to go up,

407
00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:28,080
Speaker 1: at a time when frankly, there is so much economic

408
00:21:28,160 --> 00:21:31,480
Speaker 1: uncertainty and such varying views on the path of inflation

409
00:21:31,520 --> 00:21:34,560
Speaker 1: going forward. Well, you know, at least I think it's

410
00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,359
Speaker 1: somewhat ironic that people seem more scared now than they

411
00:21:37,400 --> 00:21:39,960
Speaker 1: were nine months ago, even though the market nine months

412
00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:42,919
Speaker 1: ago was selling it twenty seven times forward earnings and

413
00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,560
Speaker 1: now is it twenty one times. I'm not making an

414
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,040
Speaker 1: argument that that's cheap, but I am making an argument

415
00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,200
Speaker 1: that it's cheaper now than it was nine months ago

416
00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 1: because of strong earnings growth. And I think that trend

417
00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:56,560
Speaker 1: over the next six to twelve months will continue. There's

418
00:21:56,600 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 1: a lot of cross currents, inflation being the number on

419
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:02,280
Speaker 1: one that I'm afraid of the more next year than

420
00:22:02,280 --> 00:22:05,320
Speaker 1: this um you know, in the delta variant and the

421
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,199
Speaker 1: crummy August jobs report, But you know those are the

422
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 1: things that create opportunities. So some faith that we really multiples,

423
00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:19,000
Speaker 1: Chris school, As you indicate earnings have grown really quickly.

424
00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:20,760
Speaker 1: Do you think it could be a threat to multiples

425
00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:22,879
Speaker 1: though in a world where the Federal Reserve might be

426
00:22:22,880 --> 00:22:25,760
Speaker 1: forced to pull back a little bit earlier than anticipated.

427
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,960
Speaker 1: In that world, yes, but I don't think we're living

428
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:32,920
Speaker 1: in that world, Jonathan. I I think we The Fed

429
00:22:33,040 --> 00:22:36,639
Speaker 1: again and again and again has said, um, you know,

430
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:39,400
Speaker 1: damn the torpedo full speed ahead. They don't care about

431
00:22:39,480 --> 00:22:42,600
Speaker 1: five percent inflation, at least not right now. Their sole

432
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,400
Speaker 1: goal is to get us out of the COVID pandemic.

433
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:49,480
Speaker 1: And look, next year is a different world. And I

434
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,600
Speaker 1: don't I don't doubt that we're you and I are

435
00:22:51,640 --> 00:22:54,359
Speaker 1: gonna be sitting here talking about wage inflation and other things.

436
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:56,920
Speaker 1: But the backdrop right now is a FED that has

437
00:22:56,960 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: the pedal to the metal. And and you know, inflations

438
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:02,760
Speaker 1: is down the list of words. Chris gotta leave you

439
00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:04,959
Speaker 1: that smart as always gonna catch up with the Chris

440
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,320
Speaker 1: Kers Suncy, that m Ai Capital equity strategist in sitia

441
00:23:08,359 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: port folio manager. This is the Bloomberg Surveillance Podcast. Thanks

442
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,920
Speaker 1: for listening. Join us live weekdays from seven to ten

443
00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,440
Speaker 1: am Eastern on Bloomberg Radio and on Bloomberg Television each

444
00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:24,280
Speaker 1: day from six to nine am for insight from the

445
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:29,520
Speaker 1: best in economics, finance, investment, and international relations. And subscribe

446
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:34,480
Speaker 1: to the Surveillance podcast on Apple podcast, SoundCloud, Bloomberg dot com,

447
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,800
Speaker 1: and of course on the terminal. I'm Tom Keene, and

448
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,800
Speaker 1: this is Bloomberg