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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Penel Podcast. I'm Paul Swinge. You,

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Speaker 1: along with my co host Lisa Brahma Waits, each day

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Speaker 1: we bring you the most noteworthy and useful interviews for

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Speaker 1: you and your money. Whether at the grocery store or

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Speaker 1: the trading floor. Find a Bloomberg Penl podcast on Apple

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Speaker 1: Podcast or wherever you listen to podcasts, as well as

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com. This week we get J. Powell,

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Speaker 1: the Chair of the Federal Reserve, speaking on Wednesday and

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Speaker 1: Thursday testifying I should say, but that comes after today's

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Speaker 1: speech by President Trump at the Economic Club of New York, which,

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Speaker 1: according to our own Michael McKee may dictate what J.

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Speaker 1: Powell will talk about. Here to join us, to give

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Speaker 1: us some insight from the dept market perspective is our

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Speaker 1: own Ira Jersey. He is chief US interestrate strategist for

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg Intelligence. So, Ira, how do you think J. Powell

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Speaker 1: could potentially respond to something that President Trump says today? Hey, well,

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Speaker 1: I guess it depends on what he says. I suppose

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Speaker 1: if it's talking about trade aid um, you know, won't

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Speaker 1: be much different than what Chair Powell said before, which

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Speaker 1: is you know that trade is is something that they

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Speaker 1: look at for what's going to be the direction of

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Speaker 1: the economy and and therefore what they have to do

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Speaker 1: as far as monetary policy goes. UM. If you know

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Speaker 1: he talks about if if President Trump talks about, you know,

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Speaker 1: reducing the Fed's independence and you know, and and basically

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Speaker 1: reiterating some of his his tweets, then you know, I

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Speaker 1: think Chair Powell will want to reiterating again something that

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Speaker 1: he said at almost every press conference during his tenure,

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Speaker 1: and that's that you know, the FED is is independent

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Speaker 1: and that the FED will do what it needs to do.

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Speaker 1: That Congress gave them the the authority to conduct monetary

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Speaker 1: policy as the Committee sees fit and um, and they're

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Speaker 1: not political. Um. You know, obviously what he hears, I

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Speaker 1: think is going to give him some odditatave. But he

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Speaker 1: has to say those types of non political you know,

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Speaker 1: we're non political organization and say things like that. So

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Speaker 1: I at LEASA and I had this morning. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about that Bank of America, a fund manager, a survey

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Speaker 1: that came out and it's a you know, surprising I

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Speaker 1: think to me at least quite optimistic in terms of

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Speaker 1: the view of the markets in the economy. Do you

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Speaker 1: think the FED views the world that way or they

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Speaker 1: have maybe a higher level of caution. I think that

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Speaker 1: they tend to be a little bit more risk averse.

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Speaker 1: I think that's been one of the features of the

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Speaker 1: Federal Reserve since the end of the h since the

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Speaker 1: financial crisis. Really it's that, you know, let's use caution first,

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Speaker 1: because we don't have a lot of ammunition. We're not

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Speaker 1: we don't want to have to do some more extraordinary

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Speaker 1: measures in terms of monetary policy easing. So let's make

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Speaker 1: sure that the economy is on stable footing before we

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Speaker 1: um before we hike interest rates meaningfully. So so I

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Speaker 1: think at this environment, yeah, I agree with that kind

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Speaker 1: of sentiment you just mentioned, Paul, is that I think

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Speaker 1: the FED is a little bit more skeptical than maybe

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Speaker 1: um that maybe some market participants are at the moment.

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Speaker 1: And I think what's going on with a lot of

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Speaker 1: market participants is it's not that things are particularly good,

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Speaker 1: it's that things aren't as bad as a feared. And

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Speaker 1: I think that that's kind of the environment where you

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Speaker 1: can have equities, you know, at or near highs, and

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Speaker 1: and interest rates, you know, creeping a little bit higher.

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Speaker 1: How much is this Europe actually doing a little bit

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Speaker 1: better than it had been, Oh, quite a lot, I think.

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Speaker 1: I think at least that that's a very good point,

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Speaker 1: because you know, Europe, Europe has really kind of been,

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Speaker 1: um uh been a big big issue I think for

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Speaker 1: developed markets in in in general, and the fact that

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Speaker 1: that they're basically exporting a lot of deflation and disinflationary

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Speaker 1: kind of impulses to the rest of the world has

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Speaker 1: been an issue. So the fact that you might have

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Speaker 1: some stabilization and some of their their survey measures, their

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Speaker 1: manufacturing seems to be lower. You're now getting some fiscal

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Speaker 1: policy out of France, for example, that might actually help

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Speaker 1: their economy a little bit. So when you get this incrementally,

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Speaker 1: you know, kind of good news on the economic front,

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Speaker 1: that's going to lift yields, you know, you know, you know,

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Speaker 1: look at German tenure yields. They're still negative and there's

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Speaker 1: still you know, negative twenty five basis points, but they're

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Speaker 1: significantly off their loads of negative seventy basis points, right,

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Speaker 1: So that's a that's a pretty subsential move. I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's as big a move in uh in German and yields,

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Speaker 1: as you've seen in US yields over the past couple

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Speaker 1: of weeks. I want to talk about a a research

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Speaker 1: note you put out this morning. I thought it was

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Speaker 1: pretty interesting. It talks about treasury auctions and actually how

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Speaker 1: they occur. My understanding when I was back on the

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Speaker 1: street was the dealers, treasury dealers on the street bought

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Speaker 1: the US bonds and notes when they came out at auction.

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Speaker 1: Has that changed or how has that changed? Yeah? So,

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Speaker 1: so prior to the crisis, you know, dealers bought a

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Speaker 1: bulk of of debt and then wound up reselling it

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Speaker 1: to UH to other investors. So you know, dealers didn't

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Speaker 1: necessarily hold a lot of their debt. They just wind

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Speaker 1: up having to buy it auction. So since the crisis,

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Speaker 1: that shifted quite a lot. And actually, investment funds tend

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Speaker 1: to participate in treasury auctions much more than they used to.

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Speaker 1: In fact, you know, if we're just looking at tenure

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Speaker 1: treasuries for example, investment funds take between fifty and six

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Speaker 1: of most treasure of most ten year treasury auctions. These days,

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Speaker 1: dealers take the next most which is only about and

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Speaker 1: then um and and then direct bidder so these people

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Speaker 1: who uh so foreigners say, uh, they only take about

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Speaker 1: ten percent. So so there's this idea I think in

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Speaker 1: the world that even though um uh, even though foreign

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Speaker 1: holders of treasuries are still very large and about treasury

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Speaker 1: debt right now is held by them, um, really auctions

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Speaker 1: are being driven more by domestic investment funds. So these

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Speaker 1: are you know, pension funds, annuities, uh, mutual funds and

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Speaker 1: and the like. So it's really, you know, domestic investors

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Speaker 1: really have a lot of um demand for for U

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Speaker 1: S treasuries. Um. Just going back to the Bank of

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Speaker 1: America Marylynch Fund Managers Survey, another notable sort of shift

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Speaker 1: that we saw was the expectation for yield curve steepening.

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Speaker 1: And right now I'm looking at the gap between tenure

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Speaker 1: and two year treasury yields reaching the highest since to

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Speaker 1: lie nearly towards the highs of the year, just in

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Speaker 1: about thirty seconds here, Ira, do you expect this to

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Speaker 1: continue or do you think that the consensus has gotten

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Speaker 1: ahead of itself. Well, I think we's only eight basis

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Speaker 1: points was the high of the year back in June,

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Speaker 1: and I think you break that and and we'll keep

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Speaker 1: on steepening a little bit. That's not that far of

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Speaker 1: a call, right, yeah, exactually yeah exactly so. UM, but

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Speaker 1: if you if you break above that, then I do

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Speaker 1: think you can reach thirty five and kind of new

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Speaker 1: new highs. I think the reason for this is just

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Speaker 1: the idea that, um, that the economy is not as

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Speaker 1: bad as it was, and the Federal Reserve is not

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Speaker 1: going to be hiking monetary policy anytime soon, so you're

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Speaker 1: able to see the yield curve. Stepen just a little

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Speaker 1: bit more from here our Jersey, Thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Ira is the chief US interest rate strategist for Bloomberg Intelligence.

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Speaker 1: Joining us on the phone. In a little bit more

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Speaker 1: than an hour, President Trump taking the podium at the

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Speaker 1: Economic Club of New York, expected to talk about the

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Speaker 1: US economy and how well it's doing. He'll also potentially

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Speaker 1: answer questions about China trade. Then tomorrow J Powell testifying,

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Speaker 1: we'll be taking that live. You can listen to it.

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Speaker 1: But all of this uh coming at a tenuous time,

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Speaker 1: a lot of uncertainty about whether the economy is about

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Speaker 1: to take off or whether perhaps people are over their

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Speaker 1: skis joining us now, Kevin Cummings. He is economist at

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Speaker 1: net West Markets Securities, So, Kevin Cummins, I'd love to

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Speaker 1: get your perspective on this sentiment shift that we've seen,

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Speaker 1: which is somewhat dramatic now people being much more bullish

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Speaker 1: rather than bearish. What data have we gotten to actually

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Speaker 1: edify that view. Yeah, well, there's certainly good morning first off,

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Speaker 1: but there's certainly optimism growing over a reduction and uncertainty

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Speaker 1: should the U. S. And China sign some sort of

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Speaker 1: phase one trade agreement. UM. In our own view here

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Speaker 1: in UTS markets were a little bit reluctant to kind

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Speaker 1: of uh think that everything's going to turn out all

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Speaker 1: of positive in two thousand and twenty if there is

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Speaker 1: some sort of agreement reached UM, which seems that it's

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Speaker 1: things seem to be moving in that direction, and perhaps

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Speaker 1: you know, the market could potentially be UM if if

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Speaker 1: Trump this afternoon uh does talk a little bit more

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Speaker 1: hawk is shot on the outlook there, then UM markets

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Speaker 1: potentially could disappoint here. But UM, you know, as far

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Speaker 1: as UM the overall economy, I think you know the

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Speaker 1: data themselves that have been better obviously was the employment

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Speaker 1: report at the start of the month. Um, you know,

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Speaker 1: the thousand jobs that were announced. There's nothing to necessarily

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Speaker 1: write home about, but there were some positive signs of

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Speaker 1: the trend is rising at a better pace than what

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Speaker 1: was initially anticipated because it was a big upward revision

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Speaker 1: to the prior months, and some of the other data

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Speaker 1: within the report were fairly positive. So, Kevin, are you

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Speaker 1: of the opinion that it's really really just talking about

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Speaker 1: the consumer here in this economy? We know the consumer economy,

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Speaker 1: but it seems like the other thirty percent is is

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Speaker 1: pretty weak, maybe even manufacturing recession. Is the consumer strong

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Speaker 1: enough to keep this economy growing? Yeah, I mean, consumers

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Speaker 1: spending certainly has been driving the growth in the economy lately.

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Speaker 1: UM and as you mentioned, manufacturing, which is pretty much

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Speaker 1: at the epicenter of the UH the trade war. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: we've seen business investment and exports slow down as well,

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Speaker 1: so it's not only confined to the manufacturing sector. But

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Speaker 1: you know, the consumer, as you mentioned, correctly, UH is

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Speaker 1: definitely leading the charge with growth. But I think it's

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Speaker 1: pretty obvious that the economy is in a slowing phase.

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Speaker 1: And you know, at the start of the year where

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Speaker 1: a three percent and the last couple of quarters we've

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Speaker 1: been around two percent UM, which seems like a reasonable

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Speaker 1: estimate for the fourth quarter as well. We don't have

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Speaker 1: too much data that go directly into adding up g

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Speaker 1: DP just yet, but later this week we will get

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Speaker 1: retail sales, which, um, you know, allow us to get

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Speaker 1: some sense of least UH spending heading into the all

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Speaker 1: important holiday shopping season. A lot of people, including President Trump,

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Speaker 1: seemed to be increasingly conflating the performance of equity markets

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Speaker 1: with the US economy. Uh. And I guess you know,

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Speaker 1: even if we do have a slowing US economy, can

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Speaker 1: that support new record highs on the SMP. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean it's a little bit out of my purview,

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Speaker 1: and I'm not necessarily an equity strategy, but I do

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Speaker 1: think that the equity market is a good, um at

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Speaker 1: least um indicator of how things are currently UM. So

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Speaker 1: it's more of a coincident indicator. There's very little economic

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Speaker 1: data that actually do that good of a forward looking

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Speaker 1: gauge about growth, But I do think the equity market

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Speaker 1: obviously is a very important one. So I definitely don't

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Speaker 1: want to dismiss the positive tone in the equity market, uh,

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Speaker 1: with regard to you know, the future growth in the

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Speaker 1: US economy. UM, but I do think that some of

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Speaker 1: the earlier strength we've seen in the consumer is probably exaggerated.

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Speaker 1: And and uh, you know, even just last week, the

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Speaker 1: your guys measure the Bloomberg Consumer Comfort and the index

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Speaker 1: fell to a seven month low. So you know, it

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Speaker 1: is only one week's worth of data, but I do

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Speaker 1: think we're at UM. You know, we are starting to

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Speaker 1: see a downshift in in consumer spending, which kind of

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Speaker 1: is aligns with the slowdown that we've seen in peril growth.

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Speaker 1: Now at the top, we did mention that the employment

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Speaker 1: report was very strong, UM, and all the upward visions

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Speaker 1: to earlier months were positive. But I do think we're

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Speaker 1: starting to see some cracks in the consumer um. Not

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Speaker 1: only consumer comfort index with the Bloomberg number coming down,

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Speaker 1: but auto sales for October fell over three and a

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Speaker 1: half percent or just about three and a half percent UM,

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Speaker 1: which is likely to hold back over all retail sales

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Speaker 1: on for day. UM. You know, these data are clearly

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Speaker 1: aren't weak enough for the FED to reconsider any recent

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Speaker 1: signal on rates, But in our view, the data don't

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Speaker 1: necessarily support the high degree of confidence that the Fed

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Speaker 1: um and what Powell is likely to emphasize tomorrow. UM

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Speaker 1: with regard to the consumer and the outlook, Kevin Hell,

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Speaker 1: what's your view of the European economy. Some people are

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Speaker 1: suggesting that perhaps it's kind of bottoming out. Do you

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Speaker 1: share that you? Um, Well, the data there with regard

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Speaker 1: to like the purchasing managers surveys have been um, definitely

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Speaker 1: less weak than they were. I mean, they were collapsing

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Speaker 1: for a while, and they at least showed signs of

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Speaker 1: stability there. Um. And obviously economies like Germany is is

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Speaker 1: really getting bearing a lot of the bront from the

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Speaker 1: China trade war, so you know, they are much more

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Speaker 1: open and exposed to global situations than the US uh

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Speaker 1: is directly, so you know, I focus more on the US,

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Speaker 1: but we've we've seen less weakness. I think they're relative

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Speaker 1: to the earlier really significant downward aumentum that we saw earlier.

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Speaker 1: Kevin Cummins, thank you so much for being with us.

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Speaker 1: Kevin Cummins, economist with nat West Markets Securities. Today is

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Speaker 1: a big day for the Walt Disney Company. They launched

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Speaker 1: Disney Plus, their streaming service that is slated to go

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Speaker 1: head to head with Netflix. Stock US up one point

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Speaker 1: five percent today to walk us through kind of what

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Speaker 1: it means for the company. We welcome Githa Rungan often

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Speaker 1: she is senior media annalys for Bloomberg Intelligence, joining us

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Speaker 1: on the phone. So, Keith, this is a big day

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Speaker 1: for Disney. Tell us kind of what their strategy is

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Speaker 1: here with Disney Plus. Yeah. So absolutely, Paulso there's been

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Speaker 1: a lot of excitement and anticipation building up for this service,

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Speaker 1: which will really be the core of Disney's uh director

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Speaker 1: consumer strategy. Um. So, they've been really building for this

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Speaker 1: service for many many years now, acquiring the technology and

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Speaker 1: then really making that transformative acquisition with Fox just to

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Speaker 1: get that extensive catalog of content. But really this is uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is going to be the core of

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Speaker 1: the company I think for for for the foreseeable future.

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Speaker 1: Management has staked especially Bob Iger, has kind of staked

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Speaker 1: his legacy on this on on the success of this product.

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Speaker 1: So it is a make or break attempt by Disney

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Speaker 1: to reposition the company for growth. I love how it's

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Speaker 1: being assessed right now. The rollout, yes, there were technical

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Speaker 1: glitches and crashes for some users, but social media people

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Speaker 1: seem to like it. Uh, you know how do we

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Speaker 1: decide whether this was successful or not. So I think

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Speaker 1: first day launch issues are typical in streaming. I mean,

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Speaker 1: they did expect this. They had a test pilot whi

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Speaker 1: uh they carried out in the Netherlands a few weeks ago. Um.

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Speaker 1: Disney management said last week at the earnings called that

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Speaker 1: that pilot actually was pretty successful. The glitches are scattered.

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Speaker 1: I think it resolves itself in the course of the

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Speaker 1: next few hours or by the end of the day. Um.

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Speaker 1: They did actually put a tweet out just a few

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Speaker 1: minutes ago saying that consumer demand has exceeded expectations. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And so at that point, yeah, absolutely positive. And um,

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Speaker 1: come on, do we expect anything other than that. This

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Speaker 1: is from Disney, right were they're gonna put a tweet

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Speaker 1: up being like, guys, guys, where are you? I don't

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Speaker 1: know why you're not signing up faster? I mean, there

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Speaker 1: were some Um, so there were some reports yesterday which

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Speaker 1: just just to kind of give you a sense of

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Speaker 1: the demand out there. So there were some reports suggesting

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Speaker 1: that they were almost more than two million pre orders.

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Speaker 1: But really, I mean, I think Disney's secret weapon here

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Speaker 1: will be it's it's marketing advantage. Right. They have millions

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Speaker 1: and millions of touch points across the company, spanning their channels,

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Speaker 1: their parks, their cruises, their their hotels, retail stores, so

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Speaker 1: that that's an area that they're really going to have

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Speaker 1: significant advantage. So Keita talked to us about the financials here,

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Speaker 1: the economics of this business. It's not a cheap business.

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Speaker 1: We see the you know, Netflix spending a good jillion

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Speaker 1: dollars every year on programming. What's how's Disney they do it? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's it's really the same story for Disney as well. Um.

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Speaker 1: The only I guess the main difference there is they

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Speaker 1: own a lot of their library content. So at launch

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Speaker 1: they have five hundred films, seven thousand, five hundred uh

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Speaker 1: episodes TV episodes. They own all of that. Of course,

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Speaker 1: it's still going to cost them because they are putting

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Speaker 1: originals on their service as well. So they at launch

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Speaker 1: they have ten originals. By the fifth year, they're going

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Speaker 1: to have almost sixty of those originals, and just with

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Speaker 1: the cost of the originals, uh, as well as the

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Speaker 1: last licensing revenue, they're gonna lose probably anywhere from about

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Speaker 1: two to two and a half billion over the next

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Speaker 1: few years. In each of the next few years, So

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Speaker 1: the service is not going to be profitable till at

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Speaker 1: least fourth. Do you have cable, I do? Yeah, what

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Speaker 1: what what would it take for you to cut the cord?

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Speaker 1: So so I think the thing that's really keeping me

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Speaker 1: glued to to cable right now, like everybody else, is sports.

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Speaker 1: Um you know your um, well I have lots of them.

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Speaker 1: Um yeah, but but you know, just just sports in general.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's what's keeping people really glued to

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Speaker 1: to to to their bundle right now. This this Disney

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Speaker 1: plus thing. One could argue that maybe Disney and all

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Speaker 1: these other folks are are late to the game. Um.

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Speaker 1: I mean there's a lot of competition in the streaming business.

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Speaker 1: Talked to us about the competitive landscape. Yeah, I think that,

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Speaker 1: you know, most people are really kind of expecting more

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Speaker 1: of this two horse race between Netflix and Disney. Um.

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Speaker 1: We do have some of the other services as well.

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Speaker 1: You know, CBS, for instance, has the all access in

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Speaker 1: the showtime service. But I think a lot of those

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Speaker 1: are are going to really see tremendous competitive pressure. I

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Speaker 1: think when all is said and done, over the next

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Speaker 1: three to four years, we're really going to see Netflix, Um,

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Speaker 1: kind of consolidate its position, and Disney with its three

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Speaker 1: services at Disney plus, Hulu and UM and ESPN plus

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Speaker 1: have at least over well over a hundred million subscribers

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Speaker 1: in the United States. Get the wrong enough and thank

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Speaker 1: you so much. Well. The first major cold snap for

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Speaker 1: the Northeast is coming this week. That usually gets the

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Speaker 1: attention of energy traders to get a sense of what's

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Speaker 1: going on in the global energy markets. We welcome our

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Speaker 1: good friends Stephen Short uh Short Group President Stephen, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for joining us so give us a sense

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Speaker 1: of just kind of what we're seeing in the natural

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Speaker 1: gas and maybe even other energy spaces as we get

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Speaker 1: this cold blast of air coming across the U S. Well.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely in the natural gas market, which we are we

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Speaker 1: are and continue to be in a structural long term

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Speaker 1: bear market. We've had a significant rally over the last

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Speaker 1: two weeks. This was created by in the oversold condition.

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Speaker 1: That is to say, speculators on Wall Street had greatly

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Speaker 1: oversold this market when we UH judge their risk ratio

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Speaker 1: relative to the CFTC data. So you juxtapose that oversouled

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Speaker 1: condition with the first major blast of cold air, and

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Speaker 1: that was quickly priced into the futures markets. So we've

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Speaker 1: had a significant rally in the gas market leading up

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Speaker 1: into the close of last week. We just got the

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Speaker 1: new CFTC data out on this past Friday. The bears

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Speaker 1: have been squeezed out of the market. The risk ratio

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Speaker 1: is lower, so this the the bullish short squeeze in

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Speaker 1: the market is now over. So you take that short

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Speaker 1: squeeze out of the market. And yes, we're getting hit

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Speaker 1: with the cold right now, but keep in mind these

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Speaker 1: are futures markets, so we're looking at, okay, what is

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Speaker 1: the next shoot a drop. And although we're seeing very

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Speaker 1: cold or about to see very cold attempts in some

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Speaker 1: key gas fuel market areas over the next week, the

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Speaker 1: forecast beyond one week out is much more moderate. So

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Speaker 1: we had a significant sell off or a correction, that

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Speaker 1: is to say, in the oil markets to start off

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Speaker 1: this week. Got it. And so in other words, it

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Speaker 1: sounds like unless there's another cold spat uh, you think

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Speaker 1: that probably things are going to go down or flat

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Speaker 1: from here for that gas, absolutely, Lisa, I think we're

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Speaker 1: sending up to the same scenario we saw last winter.

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Speaker 1: Last winter when you you got some cold in in

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Speaker 1: the forecast you got some cold winter, we saw a

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Speaker 1: twenty cent rally in the market. You take that cold

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Speaker 1: out of the market, then we saw correction and we

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Speaker 1: yow yowed all of last winter. And it wasn't until

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Speaker 1: we got into the spring of last UH last year

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Speaker 1: when the floor from underneath the market fell out and

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Speaker 1: natural gas prices crashed. We're now going into the peak

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Speaker 1: demand season, So yes, this is going to be a

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Speaker 1: market that lives and dies with the weather forecast. All right,

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Speaker 1: So that's natural gas. Let's turn to crude, and I've

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Speaker 1: been seeing a number of stories about how shale producers

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Speaker 1: are planning to reduce their spending next year UH, planning

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Speaker 1: a cut production. Further, we're hearing some about even the

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Speaker 1: deep water drillers planning to potentially do the same. Do

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Speaker 1: you think that this will change the dynamic with respect

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Speaker 1: to what people had been talking about the oversupply within crude. Yeah. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: I think the market is is far too focused on demand.

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Speaker 1: That is to say about the ongoing offgoing talks with

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Speaker 1: China and the tariffs. No one's really the narrative really

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Speaker 1: hasn't been on to supply, and I think that will

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Speaker 1: change in the new year. Lisa. As we go in

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Speaker 1: and we look at for instance, uh rid counts, red

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Speaker 1: counts are now at two plus year lows. But the

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Speaker 1: problem there is we're much more efficient, We're better at

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Speaker 1: producing with less, so we're still getting oil onto the market.

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Speaker 1: The biggest, biggest concern for this market in twenties twenty

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Speaker 1: is the in some odd forty billion dollars of debts

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Speaker 1: that is now coming due in the oil patch. Remember

401
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Speaker 1: oil prices crashed at the end of Wall Street allowed

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Speaker 1: the shell patch to kick the can down the road

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Speaker 1: five years out with increased in the revolvers and their

404
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Speaker 1: credit lines. Wall Street is no longer willing to do that.

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Speaker 1: Wall Street wants to see the money. So you've got

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Speaker 1: a hundred and forty billion dollars there and about coming

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Speaker 1: do over the next two years twenty twenty throw two.

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Speaker 1: So you're about to see, or we are on the

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Speaker 1: customer see a major contraction in the industry. That is

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Speaker 1: to say, you're going to see a lot of small

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Speaker 1: producers with a lot of debt on their books about

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Speaker 1: to be gobbled up. And there's are only going to

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Speaker 1: be producers with good acreage are gonna be gobbled up

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Speaker 1: with the big guys with clean balance sheets. So we've

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Speaker 1: got a little energy I p O deal coming down

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Speaker 1: the pike, Saudi Aramco. So how does the market the

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Speaker 1: energy markets, do you think? How did they perceive Saudi Aramco? Uh?

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Speaker 1: You know what, Saudia ramcoes ten years too late with

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Speaker 1: this I p O. You have every major Western oil company,

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Speaker 1: they're not even oil companies. They've rebranded themselves their natural

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Speaker 1: gas companies, their power companies, their energy companies. They've taken

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Speaker 1: the word oil out because clearly out to the future

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Speaker 1: growth of oil the demand decay is there. The most

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Speaker 1: optimistic UH forecast but by another researcher says demand decay

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Speaker 1: or demand um what will peak in and and then

426
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Speaker 1: what will will get to be pulled back? I'm not

427
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Speaker 1: as optimistic. I think the genie is out of the bottle.

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Speaker 1: So with regard to that two trillion dollar valuation for

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Speaker 1: for the small piece of that pie, A Ramco is

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Speaker 1: willing or the the Saudis are willing to give up,

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Speaker 1: I'm not. I'm not hopeful. I'm that given about the

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Speaker 1: whole structural change in the market away from an oil

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Speaker 1: based a ectomy to at least a natural gas based

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Speaker 1: economy in some other alternative fuel if certain presidential candidates

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Speaker 1: have their way twelve months Hence, all right, Stephen, just

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Speaker 1: we are looking ahead right now, looking at crew traded

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Speaker 1: on the IMAX fifty six dollars and sixty seven dollars,

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Speaker 1: sixty fifty six dollars, seventies cents. I'm just wondering what

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Speaker 1: you think it's going to be next year, what's the

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Speaker 1: peak and the right right now, I think we're in

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Speaker 1: that area where oil peaking in that low sixty two

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Speaker 1: mid six dollar range. Once once we roll into the

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Speaker 1: spring and we get ready for next summer, we demand

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Speaker 1: peaks in We're we're we're pretty much I think in

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Speaker 1: that range. And this is non mix w T. I.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about right now where oil is fifty fifty

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Speaker 1: six dollars a barrel. For the industry to remain healthy,

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Speaker 1: oil cannot go any lower than where we are right now.

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Speaker 1: So in a healthy oil economy or market, we're looking

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Speaker 1: at oil in that mid fifty to mid sixty dollar range.

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Speaker 1: Through of course, if we see anything any pullback below

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Speaker 1: that mid fifty to low fifty dollar range, that is

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Speaker 1: a telltale of severe economic contraction. It's something to keep

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Speaker 1: an eye on. But I'm not that concerned with regard

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Speaker 1: to the quote unquote the R word, the recession word.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we're headed there. So I think oil

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Speaker 1: in that in the market area, in the area where

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Speaker 1: we are now in the NOMEX mid to low fifties,

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Speaker 1: but not much higher than than the high sixties, going

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Speaker 1: volts are relatively stable markets when we look in the aggregate.

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Speaker 1: Stephen Short of the Short group, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for being with us. Thanks for listening to the Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: PENL podcast. You can subscribe and listen to interviews at

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Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer. I'm Paul Sweeney.

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Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney and Lisa bramwo It's

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Speaker 1: I'm on Twitter at Lisa bramw wits one before the podcast,

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Speaker 1: you can always catch us worldwide. I'm Bloomberg Radio