1 00:00:02,160 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Hi, and welcome back to the Carol Markowitch Show on iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:09,520 Speaker 1: My guest today is Mark Gerson. Mark is an investor, entrepreneur, 3 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,880 Speaker 1: and philanthropist and has a fantastic new book out called 4 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,960 Speaker 1: God Was Right. Hi, Marks, So nice to have you. 5 00:00:15,920 --> 00:00:17,640 Speaker 2: On, Carol, great to be here, Thank you. 6 00:00:18,239 --> 00:00:19,360 Speaker 1: So what was God right about? 7 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 2: Tell us? Well, God was right about everything? And how 8 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:23,840 Speaker 2: do we know that? 9 00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:25,799 Speaker 3: Well, we know that now for the first time in 10 00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:28,600 Speaker 3: the twenty first century because the Torah, the Five Books 11 00:00:28,600 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 3: of Moses from Genesis to Deuteronomy, was written several thousand 12 00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 3: years ago. 13 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:35,160 Speaker 2: And what kind of book is the Torah. It's not a. 14 00:00:35,120 --> 00:00:37,400 Speaker 3: History book or a science book or a cookbook. It's 15 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 3: a guide book. And it offers thousands of psychological insights guidance. 16 00:00:42,320 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 3: That means the Bible should not be in the religion 17 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 3: section of bookstore. It should be in this self help 18 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:49,559 Speaker 3: section of bookstores. So the Bible offers us practical guidance, 19 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:53,520 Speaker 3: interesting guidance. I'm just about every question we have today 20 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,720 Speaker 3: and what I seek to do When God was right? 21 00:00:56,920 --> 00:00:59,640 Speaker 3: Was I line up the Biblical claims on several different 22 00:00:59,640 --> 00:01:04,200 Speaker 3: subject several dozen different subjects, ranging from diversity to anti fragility, 23 00:01:04,280 --> 00:01:07,960 Speaker 3: to routine to future orientation. And then I say, here's 24 00:01:08,000 --> 00:01:11,000 Speaker 3: what the Bible says, here's what modern social science says. 25 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:14,880 Speaker 3: And then what is fascinating is every single claim that 26 00:01:14,920 --> 00:01:17,680 Speaker 3: the Bible has made, or the Bible made three thousand 27 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:20,800 Speaker 3: years ago, is now in the twenty first century validated 28 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:24,200 Speaker 3: by modern social science. So the Bible is right about everything, 29 00:01:24,600 --> 00:01:26,440 Speaker 3: which makes it the best book ever written in a 30 00:01:26,480 --> 00:01:28,040 Speaker 3: book worthy of our study and devotion. 31 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 1: It's funny because I definitely see it a little bit 32 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:33,319 Speaker 1: as a history book, and I never thought of it 33 00:01:33,360 --> 00:01:36,120 Speaker 1: as a self help book. For example, what are some 34 00:01:36,280 --> 00:01:38,360 Speaker 1: lessons that people should pick up from it? 35 00:01:38,720 --> 00:01:39,920 Speaker 2: Oh? Yeah, very interesting. 36 00:01:40,319 --> 00:01:43,920 Speaker 3: The Bible, I mean, Moses says in Deuteronomy twenty nine 37 00:01:43,959 --> 00:01:45,800 Speaker 3: exactly what it is. He said, this book is written 38 00:01:45,840 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 3: for your benefit, and a book written for your benefit 39 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:52,560 Speaker 3: is a self help book. And the Bible addresses, in 40 00:01:52,600 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 3: the most practical terms pretty much everything we do. Let's 41 00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:57,760 Speaker 3: talk about the first thing we do in the morning, 42 00:01:57,840 --> 00:01:59,800 Speaker 3: which is what closes should we put on? What should 43 00:01:59,800 --> 00:02:03,280 Speaker 3: we Well, that's addressed in the Bible. So how is 44 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: it addressed in the Bible. Well, when God sends Adam 45 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,400 Speaker 3: out of the Garden of Eden. He sends him out 46 00:02:08,400 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 3: with one thing, garments. Now this is interesting. It would 47 00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,920 Speaker 3: be presumed that Adam would leave with garments, just like 48 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:16,760 Speaker 3: if you said I left my house this morning, or 49 00:02:16,800 --> 00:02:19,000 Speaker 3: I said I left my office. Now I wouldn't say 50 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: I left my office with garments. It could be presumed 51 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:24,200 Speaker 3: that I did so. So why is God emphasizing garments. Well, 52 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,200 Speaker 3: we don't have to go very far in the tower 53 00:02:26,280 --> 00:02:30,960 Speaker 3: to find out why, because relatively shory. Thereafter we have 54 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 3: what is quite possibly the most important twenty minutes of 55 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:34,760 Speaker 3: Jewish history. 56 00:02:35,120 --> 00:02:37,880 Speaker 2: And this is because the great. 57 00:02:37,720 --> 00:02:41,840 Speaker 3: Aged blind patriarch Isaac is about to give the birthright, 58 00:02:41,919 --> 00:02:45,359 Speaker 3: the imprometer of Jewish leadership to one of his twins. 59 00:02:45,520 --> 00:02:47,440 Speaker 3: The problem, he's giving it to the twin that he 60 00:02:47,480 --> 00:02:49,799 Speaker 3: loves the most, but who's completely unqualified to lead the 61 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:50,440 Speaker 3: Jewish people. 62 00:02:50,919 --> 00:02:51,720 Speaker 2: This is Esau. 63 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:55,200 Speaker 3: So Rebecca, the real hero of the Bible, the real 64 00:02:55,240 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 3: hero Genesis, has about twenty minutes to change all of 65 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:01,519 Speaker 3: history and to assure that our husband is tricked into 66 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:04,359 Speaker 3: not giving the birthright to Esau but instead giving it 67 00:03:04,360 --> 00:03:08,240 Speaker 3: to Jacob, who, for his deficiencies up to that point, 68 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 3: he's still a young man, is much more qualified than 69 00:03:11,040 --> 00:03:14,200 Speaker 3: Esau to lead the Jewish people. The birthright goes to Esau, Carol, 70 00:03:14,240 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 3: you and I are not here. If it goes to Jacob, 71 00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:18,440 Speaker 3: we're here. Rebecca has twenty minutes to steer in the 72 00:03:18,480 --> 00:03:21,280 Speaker 3: right direction. What does she tell Jacob to do? She 73 00:03:21,360 --> 00:03:26,080 Speaker 3: tells Jacob put on Esau's less clothes, put on his 74 00:03:26,160 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 3: best clothes. Why is best clothes? Isaac is blind, so 75 00:03:30,680 --> 00:03:32,399 Speaker 3: what does it matter what clothes he has on it all? 76 00:03:32,440 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 3: And why is best club? Just put in any clothes? 77 00:03:34,560 --> 00:03:38,480 Speaker 3: Because Rebecca has a profound psychological insight, which is they 78 00:03:38,720 --> 00:03:39,600 Speaker 3: we feel like. 79 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,680 Speaker 2: What we wear, and we perform like how we feel. 80 00:03:43,160 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 3: So in order for Jacob to convince his father that 81 00:03:47,440 --> 00:03:50,040 Speaker 3: he's Esau, he first has to convince himself. He first 82 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,800 Speaker 3: has to feel like Esau himself. How can he do that? 83 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:56,680 Speaker 3: Rebecca knew the answer, put on his best clothes. And 84 00:03:56,760 --> 00:03:59,880 Speaker 3: let's fast forward to the twenty first century, where there's 85 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 3: abundant social science on clothing, and what do we learn well? 86 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,640 Speaker 3: We see in twenty twelve there's an experiment of Northwestern 87 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,080 Speaker 3: University where one cohort of students is given a white 88 00:04:10,080 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 3: coat and told it's a doctor's coat. Another cohort is 89 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,840 Speaker 3: given the same coat and told it's a painter's coat, 90 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 3: and then they're given attention seeking tasks. Those who were 91 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 3: told it was a doctor's coat do much better. Fast 92 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 3: forward two years to twenty fourteen, there's an experiment at 93 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:27,479 Speaker 3: Yale which is a negotiation workshop with some real estate negotiation, 94 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 3: and one cohort of male students is told come in 95 00:04:31,000 --> 00:04:33,800 Speaker 3: suits and tie. The other is told come however you want. 96 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:36,120 Speaker 3: Those who come in suits and tie end up with 97 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 3: vastly more profits in the experiment than those who came 98 00:04:38,520 --> 00:04:39,000 Speaker 3: as they are. 99 00:04:39,320 --> 00:04:39,920 Speaker 2: So what do we. 100 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:43,680 Speaker 3: See time and again that we feel like how we 101 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:47,360 Speaker 3: dress and we act like how we feel. And there 102 00:04:47,360 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 3: are deeply practical implications to this as well. When people 103 00:04:50,360 --> 00:04:53,120 Speaker 3: wake up and they're they're sad or even feeling depressed, 104 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:55,160 Speaker 3: what will they normally do? They'll normally put on a 105 00:04:55,200 --> 00:04:57,440 Speaker 3: pair of sweatpants and something like a baggy sweater. What 106 00:04:57,480 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 3: does that do? It exacerbates the depression. So what we 107 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,600 Speaker 3: now call fashion psychologists tell people to do. It says, 108 00:05:04,640 --> 00:05:07,760 Speaker 3: put on a floaty dress, put on fun jewelry, put 109 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:14,120 Speaker 3: on bright colors. Why because fashion psychologists have rediscovered Rebecca's insight, 110 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:16,520 Speaker 3: which is that if you want to feel a certain way, 111 00:05:16,920 --> 00:05:18,640 Speaker 3: dress that way, and then you will feel that way, 112 00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:19,320 Speaker 3: and then you will. 113 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:19,680 Speaker 2: Be that way. 114 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,440 Speaker 1: So your wife is a rabbi, could you have missed 115 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: your calling to be a rabbi as well? 116 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:29,560 Speaker 3: I'm the rabbi's husband. I am so blessed to be 117 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:31,919 Speaker 3: married to a rabbi and to the particular rabbi to 118 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,280 Speaker 3: whom I am married. So now I love being the 119 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:38,560 Speaker 3: rabbi's husband. I'm a businessman and entrepreneur, and I love business, 120 00:05:38,600 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 3: and I love studying Tora, and I love being married 121 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:41,640 Speaker 3: to a rabbi. 122 00:05:41,640 --> 00:05:42,719 Speaker 2: I'd recommend it to everybody. 123 00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,039 Speaker 1: Only so many rabbis to go around, but that's true. 124 00:05:45,880 --> 00:05:47,320 Speaker 2: So get one when you can, right. 125 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,839 Speaker 1: So, you have so much going on and you do 126 00:05:49,920 --> 00:05:52,880 Speaker 1: so many different things. How did you put a book 127 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:53,679 Speaker 1: in or what. 128 00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: Made you do this? Well? 129 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 3: I started studying tora every day about twenty years ago, 130 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,640 Speaker 3: and I really started it in the study of the Hagadah, 131 00:06:02,640 --> 00:06:04,760 Speaker 3: which is the guy that leads us through the passover Sator, 132 00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,599 Speaker 3: which I think is the greatest book. Word for work 133 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:12,160 Speaker 3: is very short, ever written, and then what I realized. 134 00:06:11,960 --> 00:06:14,599 Speaker 1: It doesn't feel that short at the let me tell you, 135 00:06:14,720 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's. 136 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:18,039 Speaker 3: Another discussion about about how one should use the Hagada 137 00:06:18,080 --> 00:06:18,360 Speaker 3: at the sat. 138 00:06:18,680 --> 00:06:19,400 Speaker 2: That's a good point. 139 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:23,160 Speaker 3: But I discovered what the Haggadah really was, which is 140 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 3: it's the greatest hits of the Torah. And it's the 141 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,920 Speaker 3: greatest hits of the Torah because it's the point of 142 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:31,120 Speaker 3: the Passover Sator. The Passover is our authentic juition year, 143 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:32,960 Speaker 3: not Russia Shana, It's not even in the Bible. 144 00:06:33,120 --> 00:06:33,799 Speaker 2: In Torah. 145 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:37,080 Speaker 3: Passover is what the Bible calls the head of months. 146 00:06:37,080 --> 00:06:40,279 Speaker 3: So I'm ahead of months. We're supposed to use the Hagadah, 147 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 3: the greatest hits of the Torah, to review how do 148 00:06:42,520 --> 00:06:44,679 Speaker 3: we do in the previous year, who am I now? 149 00:06:44,920 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 3: And who do I want to be in the coming year, 150 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:48,440 Speaker 3: and how do I become that person? So it was 151 00:06:48,480 --> 00:06:51,600 Speaker 3: the greatest hits of the Torah. So I found myself 152 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:54,599 Speaker 3: studying the Torah every day. And so the first thing 153 00:06:54,640 --> 00:06:58,320 Speaker 3: I do in the morning is I run for six 154 00:06:58,400 --> 00:07:00,600 Speaker 3: miles on the treadmill, and I still the tower on 155 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,520 Speaker 3: the treadmill, and then I have a harusa in Jerusalem, 156 00:07:03,560 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 3: and we study after that. 157 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:05,720 Speaker 2: And I love the Tora. 158 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 3: I study every day, and I've found it to be 159 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 3: the most interesting, endlessly rich, and entirely practical book ever written, 160 00:07:15,360 --> 00:07:19,600 Speaker 3: with lessons and guidance that is as relevant in twenty 161 00:07:19,680 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 3: twenty five as it ever was in the past and 162 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 3: will continue to be in the future. And then I 163 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 3: realized that modern social scientists, without knowing it, have been 164 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:32,200 Speaker 3: asking and answering the same questions that the biblical author did. 165 00:07:32,360 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 2: So that's what God writes about. 166 00:07:34,280 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 167 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:41,640 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Markowitch Show. What do you want 168 00:07:41,720 --> 00:07:42,920 Speaker 1: people to take away from? 169 00:07:42,920 --> 00:07:43,640 Speaker 2: God was right? 170 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:47,280 Speaker 1: What's your main kind of goal for them? 171 00:07:48,320 --> 00:07:51,720 Speaker 3: I want people to take away that the Torah is 172 00:07:51,760 --> 00:07:55,680 Speaker 3: the greatest self help book ever written, that whenever someone 173 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,640 Speaker 3: is questioning something, struggling with something, challenged by something, season 174 00:07:59,680 --> 00:08:02,840 Speaker 3: opportunity no matter how big or how small. And I 175 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 3: actually have a chapter in the book called No Small 176 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: Things about how in the Torah and modern self science, 177 00:08:06,720 --> 00:08:08,880 Speaker 3: we know there's nothing that small. But no matter what 178 00:08:09,040 --> 00:08:11,880 Speaker 3: someone's thinking about, no matter what question someone is asking, 179 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 3: whether it's what should I wear in the morning, to 180 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 3: how much should I give to charity? To how should 181 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:19,880 Speaker 3: I orient my life in the remaining thirty forty fifty years? 182 00:08:19,920 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 3: Whatever it is, the answer is asked, anticipated, and answered 183 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 3: in the Torah. And what God was right seeks to 184 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: do is to extract the entirely practical meaning from hot hundreds, 185 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,560 Speaker 3: maybe thousands of passages that are really there to guide 186 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,360 Speaker 3: us through our daily lives. 187 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:44,880 Speaker 1: What do you think people misunderstand about the Bible in 188 00:08:44,920 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: our modern world? It seems like we don't spend that 189 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:50,000 Speaker 1: much time on it. Most people are not reading it 190 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: or listening to it on the treadmill. What do we 191 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:53,320 Speaker 1: not get? 192 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:56,720 Speaker 3: I think people get the genre wrong. And the first 193 00:08:56,720 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 3: step in understanding any book is to get the genre right. 194 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:02,679 Speaker 3: So if you read a book of science fiction and conclude, oh, 195 00:09:02,720 --> 00:09:05,040 Speaker 3: it's ridiculous. People can't take a spaceship to Venus, the 196 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 3: answer is you got the GENRENG. 197 00:09:06,800 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 2: It's not a science book. 198 00:09:07,600 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 3: It's a science fiction book, and people get the GENRENG 199 00:09:10,280 --> 00:09:10,840 Speaker 3: with the Tora. 200 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:12,640 Speaker 2: All too often. 201 00:09:12,640 --> 00:09:15,360 Speaker 3: People think it's a history book, and they say, well, 202 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:17,800 Speaker 3: this couldn't have happened before that. It's not a history book. 203 00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 3: The Bible tells us it's not a history book. Vegetation 204 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:23,960 Speaker 3: is created before the sun early in Genesis, saying this 205 00:09:24,080 --> 00:09:26,000 Speaker 3: is not a history book, it's not a science book. 206 00:09:26,040 --> 00:09:28,920 Speaker 3: That's another example why it's not a science book. It's 207 00:09:28,960 --> 00:09:31,200 Speaker 3: not a cookbook. It's a guide book. So we have 208 00:09:31,240 --> 00:09:33,480 Speaker 3: to read the Torah as a guide book, and the 209 00:09:33,520 --> 00:09:36,559 Speaker 3: stories in the Torah, the laws in the Torah. Everything 210 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,839 Speaker 3: in the Torah exists, sure to telecoherent narrative, but that's 211 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 3: not the main purpose. The main purpose of the Torah 212 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 3: is to help each of us live happier, better and 213 00:09:46,880 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 3: more meaningful lives today. 214 00:09:48,360 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 2: And that's true whenever today. 215 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:55,280 Speaker 3: Is what do you worry about with regards to the 216 00:09:55,320 --> 00:09:58,480 Speaker 3: Tora anything, what keeps you up? 217 00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 2: Well, there is a. 218 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:03,719 Speaker 3: Chapter in the book on fear and uh and so 219 00:10:05,000 --> 00:10:07,079 Speaker 3: the what the Torah teaches us about fear. So the 220 00:10:07,080 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 3: Bible tells us eighty five times more than tells us 221 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 3: anything else. 222 00:10:10,640 --> 00:10:13,160 Speaker 2: Do not fear afraid, Yeah, yeah, eighty. 223 00:10:12,960 --> 00:10:15,679 Speaker 3: Five times, which is interesting because the Bible never tells 224 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:18,040 Speaker 3: us to do things we would do in the absence 225 00:10:18,080 --> 00:10:20,000 Speaker 3: of guidance. So the Bible never says, for instance, you 226 00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,880 Speaker 3: shall love your children, because we all do. We know 227 00:10:22,960 --> 00:10:24,240 Speaker 3: no one needs to tell us to do it. So 228 00:10:24,280 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 3: it tells us to do things that are unnatural, and uh, 229 00:10:27,880 --> 00:10:30,600 Speaker 3: and and that and and so what is it so fear? 230 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:32,680 Speaker 3: It tells us do not fear eighty five times because 231 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:35,320 Speaker 3: we'll naturally fear. The Bible tells us do not fear. 232 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,920 Speaker 3: So in the book. What I extract from this biblical instruction, 233 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:42,120 Speaker 3: which is really throughout all the books of the Bible, 234 00:10:42,720 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 3: is only fear immediate thing. So if Allian's charging at you, 235 00:10:47,600 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 3: that's a good time to be afraid. It's an It's 236 00:10:50,559 --> 00:10:53,959 Speaker 3: a quite proper evolutionary response is to be afraid. Everything 237 00:10:53,960 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 3: else demote to a concern. And when something is demoted 238 00:10:57,240 --> 00:10:58,880 Speaker 3: from a fear to a concern, what does. 239 00:10:58,720 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 2: That enable us to do? 240 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:02,800 Speaker 3: It enables us to think rationally about it and to 241 00:11:02,880 --> 00:11:05,560 Speaker 3: decide intelligently. So I think, as Lionel Trilling put it, 242 00:11:05,559 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 3: we all have a moral obligation to be intelligent and 243 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:11,600 Speaker 3: governing our fears is probably the first step in that process. 244 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 1: Is there a way to reorient society back towards God 245 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,400 Speaker 1: or towards religion in a way that doesn't involve, say, 246 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:21,880 Speaker 1: the government. Do you think that there is any any 247 00:11:21,920 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: move that we can make as a people to get 248 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:26,600 Speaker 1: us back to where we're supposed to be. 249 00:11:27,559 --> 00:11:28,559 Speaker 2: What a great, great question. 250 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 3: Well, there was this kind of awesome thing that happened 251 00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 3: last year, there was an authentic religious revival in Kentucky 252 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 3: and uh, and I think it's a beautiful moment. I 253 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 3: think America needs a religious revival. Yeah, And I think 254 00:11:41,320 --> 00:11:45,640 Speaker 3: that religious revival can come with a discovery or a 255 00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:49,720 Speaker 3: rediscovery of the Torah. And h and about how entirely 256 00:11:49,840 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 3: practical the Tower is. So I think if people realize 257 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,840 Speaker 3: just how practical the Tower is, that it's not anachronistic 258 00:11:56,400 --> 00:12:01,360 Speaker 3: work of history or ancient anything, but it's entirely earned, contemporary, 259 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:03,960 Speaker 3: and totally relevant, people will fall in love with the 260 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 3: Torah and they'll seek its guidance. And when they seek 261 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:12,720 Speaker 3: its guidance, they'll want to understand its passages and ultimately 262 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:13,840 Speaker 3: follow its guidance. 263 00:12:13,880 --> 00:12:15,520 Speaker 2: And the towra is clear. 264 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,720 Speaker 3: There's this fascinating passage where it talks about the God 265 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:20,360 Speaker 3: of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, 266 00:12:20,640 --> 00:12:22,480 Speaker 3: leading us to ask, why isn't just say the God 267 00:12:22,480 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 3: of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob and skip the other two ovs? 268 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 3: Because what the Tower is telling us, is there are 269 00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:30,680 Speaker 3: different ways to approach God. Abraham had one way, Isaac 270 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,760 Speaker 3: had another, Jacob had another. And what do we learn 271 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 3: from that? 272 00:12:33,240 --> 00:12:34,040 Speaker 2: That there are. 273 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:36,160 Speaker 3: Different ways to approach God within a faith, and there 274 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 3: are different ways in which faiths can approach God. So 275 00:12:39,360 --> 00:12:43,080 Speaker 3: no matter what faith, someone has, approach God through that faith. 276 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:45,920 Speaker 3: And I think it would be great to have an 277 00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:48,400 Speaker 3: American religious revival. I think America is right for it. 278 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,360 Speaker 3: America is totally suited for it. 279 00:12:50,280 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 2: And I'm all for it. 280 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: Make America Christian again, make. 281 00:12:54,240 --> 00:12:55,320 Speaker 2: America religious again. 282 00:12:55,880 --> 00:13:00,120 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and and and let let people discover the the 283 00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:04,560 Speaker 3: beauty and the truth and the eternal and contemporary relevance 284 00:13:04,600 --> 00:13:06,560 Speaker 3: of the Torah. And when people whether people come to 285 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:10,120 Speaker 3: the Torah through Judaism or Christianity, it's all good. Yeah. 286 00:13:10,160 --> 00:13:14,160 Speaker 1: Absolutely. I usually ask people what their plan B would 287 00:13:14,200 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 1: have been in life, like when they are, you know, 288 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,480 Speaker 1: an economist or something. I say, you know, what else 289 00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 1: would you might have done? But you seem to have 290 00:13:20,480 --> 00:13:23,800 Speaker 1: done Plans A, B and C. Is there a path 291 00:13:23,920 --> 00:13:26,960 Speaker 1: you haven't taken that you would maybe regret not taking. 292 00:13:28,040 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 2: Well, that's such a good question. 293 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:33,880 Speaker 3: Well, America is such a great country for so many reasons, 294 00:13:33,920 --> 00:13:36,120 Speaker 3: and one of the reasons is the amount of opportunities 295 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,319 Speaker 3: that create. So I feel very blessed with the opportunities 296 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 3: that America has given me, particularly the opportunity to meet 297 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,720 Speaker 3: and marry my wife, but other things as well, for instance, 298 00:13:46,760 --> 00:13:50,439 Speaker 3: to study the Torah and write about it, to launch 299 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:55,000 Speaker 3: businesses and start to co found United Houtsalid Israel and 300 00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:58,360 Speaker 3: African Mission Healthcare. And I've just been so blessed with 301 00:13:58,440 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 3: these opportunities and just so grateful for the opportunity to 302 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 3: have written. 303 00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:04,239 Speaker 2: God was right to share. 304 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 3: The wisdom and the truly contemporary relevance of the Torah. 305 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:10,920 Speaker 3: And I just hope people understand that the Tora is 306 00:14:11,440 --> 00:14:14,240 Speaker 3: it's the best ever self help book, and it asks 307 00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:17,240 Speaker 3: and answers all the questions that anyone anyone has about anything. 308 00:14:18,040 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 1: What advice would you give your sixteen year old self? 309 00:14:21,520 --> 00:14:24,040 Speaker 2: Very good question. I'll give a very practical answer. 310 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 3: And there's actually a chapter in the book on education 311 00:14:28,280 --> 00:14:32,320 Speaker 3: and another chapter on the limits of education, so it's 312 00:14:32,320 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 3: really only the answer is only tangentially related to the book. 313 00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:38,720 Speaker 3: But the advice I would give to my sixteen year 314 00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 3: old self would be there are only four things you 315 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 3: get out of a college experience. Those four things are 316 00:14:45,960 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 3: the professor who inspires you, the subject that captivates you, 317 00:14:49,960 --> 00:14:51,880 Speaker 3: the friends you make, and. 318 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:53,080 Speaker 2: The girl or boy you fall in love with. 319 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 3: Okay, those are the only four things you can get 320 00:14:55,360 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: of a college experience, and those four things exist at 321 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:03,360 Speaker 3: hundreds and undreds of colleges and universities. So I just 322 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:05,880 Speaker 3: I think it's so sad when I see young people, 323 00:15:05,960 --> 00:15:09,440 Speaker 3: and even sadder when I see their parents fixated on 324 00:15:09,520 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 3: the supposed or alleged importance of their child going to 325 00:15:13,960 --> 00:15:16,920 Speaker 3: one school, when in fact, those are the only four 326 00:15:16,960 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 3: things that someone can get out of the college experience. 327 00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:24,720 Speaker 3: Each four is amazing, and each four is offered at 328 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:27,760 Speaker 3: hundreds and hundreds of places. So I would tell my 329 00:15:27,920 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 3: sixteen year old self and sixteen year old now that 330 00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 3: it's really important to work hard. It's really important to 331 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:37,640 Speaker 3: have an ethical core and a moral center. And if 332 00:15:37,680 --> 00:15:40,720 Speaker 3: you take that the ethic of hard work, and that 333 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 3: moral core and that developing sense of mission, you can 334 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,200 Speaker 3: take it anywhere. And if you get rejected from this 335 00:15:47,320 --> 00:15:50,000 Speaker 3: college and that college and ten others, it doesn't matter. 336 00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,720 Speaker 3: It will not affect your life chances. So go to college. 337 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,880 Speaker 3: Seek a professor that'll inspire you, a subject that castivates you, 338 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:01,280 Speaker 3: make ten to fifteen good friends, and fall in love 339 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 3: with a terrific. 340 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:04,600 Speaker 2: Boy or girl, and you'll have a great experience. 341 00:16:05,040 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: It's funny because I don't even count on two of those. 342 00:16:07,560 --> 00:16:10,280 Speaker 1: I would really I just root for my kids to 343 00:16:10,320 --> 00:16:12,760 Speaker 1: go to college, to make a lot of friends, and 344 00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:16,400 Speaker 1: fall in love with somebody, hopefully get married shortly after college. 345 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:18,800 Speaker 1: That's sort of the goal for me with the whole 346 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:19,760 Speaker 1: college experience. 347 00:16:19,800 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 2: If they happen to. 348 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: Have an inspiring professor or to learn something along the way, 349 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:26,160 Speaker 1: that will be like complete bonus. 350 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:28,920 Speaker 3: Well, I mean, if you look at the course catalogs 351 00:16:28,920 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 3: of these colleges. Now, of course there's a lot of 352 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 3: nonsense in these course callogs, but there's a lot of 353 00:16:32,360 --> 00:16:36,760 Speaker 3: really good stuff too, and so students can learn and 354 00:16:36,840 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 3: they're I mean, what a great opportunity to be given 355 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,680 Speaker 3: these years when all thats expected of you is to 356 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:44,440 Speaker 3: learn to make friends and to grow. 357 00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:46,400 Speaker 2: It's just an incredible opportunity exactly. 358 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 3: And I lovely you said, Carol about getting married young, 359 00:16:49,440 --> 00:16:52,480 Speaker 3: because I have a chapter in the book on the 360 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 3: Biblical formula for love and marriage and what they said 361 00:16:56,440 --> 00:16:58,960 Speaker 3: from this, yeah, direction, the story of Isaac and Rebecca, 362 00:16:59,440 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 3: how they just decided to marry each other, and the 363 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:04,800 Speaker 3: logic of how they decided to marry each other and 364 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,919 Speaker 3: how they came to have the happiest marriage in the Bible. 365 00:17:07,960 --> 00:17:10,040 Speaker 2: That logic leads to early marriage. 366 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,520 Speaker 1: So what is it? Give us the hint? 367 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:12,920 Speaker 2: Yeah? 368 00:17:12,960 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 3: Okay, So Eliezer, who's so Abraham sends his servant, Eliezer 369 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:20,399 Speaker 3: to go find a wife for Isaac, and he says 370 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:22,440 Speaker 3: to Eliezer, go to Haran. 371 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 2: Why Haran because Abraham. 372 00:17:24,080 --> 00:17:26,439 Speaker 3: Years before had made souls in Haran, so it was 373 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 3: a place where whatever making souls means, it was a 374 00:17:28,440 --> 00:17:31,000 Speaker 3: place where souls could be cultivated. So he says, go 375 00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 3: to Haran. Eliezer goes to Haran, and she's a young 376 00:17:35,000 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 3: woman approaching, and he says she was very The text 377 00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 3: tells us she was very fair to look upon. And 378 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:43,920 Speaker 3: we know one other thing about her, which is she's 379 00:17:44,040 --> 00:17:47,719 Speaker 3: exceedingly generous. She brings water for Eliezer and all of 380 00:17:47,760 --> 00:17:50,879 Speaker 3: his camels, and estimated like dozens and dozens of trips 381 00:17:50,920 --> 00:17:54,360 Speaker 3: of water. So Eliezer knows three and only three things 382 00:17:54,359 --> 00:17:57,120 Speaker 3: about this woman who is Rebecca. One is that she's 383 00:17:57,160 --> 00:18:00,640 Speaker 3: from Haran. Two she's very fair to look upon, and 384 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,400 Speaker 3: three she's ridiculously generous. On the basis of those three 385 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,920 Speaker 3: and only three characteristics, he says she's the woman for 386 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:12,240 Speaker 3: my man, Isaac. And then Rebecca is given the opportunity herself, 387 00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 3: do you want to go with Eliezer and marry Isaac? 388 00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:17,240 Speaker 3: And by the way, people who say the Bible is sexist, 389 00:18:17,960 --> 00:18:19,120 Speaker 3: they don't understand the Bible. 390 00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:20,879 Speaker 2: They don't know what they're reading. This is one of 391 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:22,080 Speaker 2: many examples. 392 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,639 Speaker 3: Several which I cover in the book of How the 393 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 3: Bible is the great work of female empowerment. Rebecca is 394 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:28,720 Speaker 3: given the choice herself, do I marry the guy or 395 00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:30,600 Speaker 3: do I not marry the guy. She only knows two 396 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:33,320 Speaker 3: things about the guy. One is that Isaac is rich, 397 00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,200 Speaker 3: so he's a good provider, and two. 398 00:18:35,440 --> 00:18:37,040 Speaker 2: They loves God. Oh. 399 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,720 Speaker 3: She says, yes, I will marry him. And then the 400 00:18:39,760 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: text tells us in Genesis twenty four sixty seven, he 401 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 3: married her. She became his wife, and he loved her. 402 00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:49,479 Speaker 3: And the order of things in the Bible is always important. 403 00:18:49,520 --> 00:18:53,240 Speaker 3: So what does the Bible tell us? First identify two 404 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,359 Speaker 3: or maybe three characteristics in the other person, and whether 405 00:18:56,440 --> 00:18:58,879 Speaker 3: she likes warmer cold weather vacations, whether his friends are 406 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:01,600 Speaker 3: funny or not two of them. Identify two or three 407 00:19:01,720 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 3: genuinely important characteristics. Then just get married. Don't think too 408 00:19:05,040 --> 00:19:07,000 Speaker 3: much about it. Just get married. Once it's two or 409 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 3: three boxes have checked, then start doing spouse like things. 410 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 3: So he married her, she became his wife. Must be 411 00:19:13,280 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 3: two different things, because I listened separately. So he married her, 412 00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:18,280 Speaker 3: Then she became his wife. What does it mean to 413 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,760 Speaker 3: become a wife or a husband? Probably iterant acts of 414 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 3: giving right and then love follows. In modern culture, we 415 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:29,240 Speaker 3: have it the other way around. We have this absolutely yeah, yeah, 416 00:19:29,280 --> 00:19:31,159 Speaker 3: we have this ridiculous notion of falling in love. You 417 00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 3: don't fall in love. You might fall on your face 418 00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:35,000 Speaker 3: or fall on the ground, but you cultivate love. 419 00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 2: You don't fall into it. 420 00:19:36,520 --> 00:19:39,040 Speaker 3: You cultivate. It's quite the opposite. That's what the Bible 421 00:19:39,040 --> 00:19:42,000 Speaker 3: tells us. Identify two or three characteristics, get married, start 422 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:44,359 Speaker 3: doing spouse like things, and then you will experience a 423 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 3: love that will last forever. 424 00:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,840 Speaker 1: I hope that teens listening can can take these lessons, 425 00:19:49,880 --> 00:19:51,639 Speaker 1: but I think that might be a hard sell for 426 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:52,200 Speaker 1: some of them. 427 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,800 Speaker 3: Well, it's it's you know, the so the Bible says it, 428 00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:00,439 Speaker 3: but then modern social science totally validates it. Is that 429 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:04,480 Speaker 3: every alternative to that very simple and clear biblical formula has. 430 00:20:04,400 --> 00:20:05,520 Speaker 2: Proven to be a catastrophe. 431 00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:07,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, and I have the data in the book on 432 00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:10,800 Speaker 3: how all of the alternatives have failed. In the data, 433 00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:18,480 Speaker 3: living together bad idea. Serial dating one boyfriend girlfriend after 434 00:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 3: the next into one's thirties or even later leads to 435 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:25,680 Speaker 3: unhappiness in all kinds of very specific ways. 436 00:20:25,680 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 2: And I have a whole chapter in the book on that. 437 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:29,560 Speaker 1: We're going to take a quick break and be right 438 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 1: back on the Carol Marcowitch show. Well, I love this conversation, 439 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,280 Speaker 1: and I think your book is just fantastic. You are 440 00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: just such an interesting person. Leave us here with your 441 00:20:43,640 --> 00:20:46,359 Speaker 1: best tip for my listeners on how they can improve 442 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:47,080 Speaker 1: their lives. 443 00:20:48,400 --> 00:20:49,440 Speaker 2: What a great point. 444 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:53,359 Speaker 3: I think the best tip on how you can improve 445 00:20:53,359 --> 00:20:57,360 Speaker 3: your life it's right there in the Bible. It's identify 446 00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,760 Speaker 3: a characteristic that you want to add to your personality 447 00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:02,960 Speaker 3: or your character, So identify it right now. So let's 448 00:21:02,960 --> 00:21:05,679 Speaker 3: say someone says, I wish I was more giving, I 449 00:21:05,680 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 3: wish I was more generous, I wish I was kinder, 450 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,159 Speaker 3: whatever it is, identify one characteristic of growth and of change. 451 00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,200 Speaker 3: Then the Bible tells us, again totally validated by modern 452 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 3: social science, how to develop that characteristic. Just start doing 453 00:21:18,880 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 3: the thing. In other words, fake it till you make it. 454 00:21:22,520 --> 00:21:24,399 Speaker 3: So if you say I wish I was more giving, 455 00:21:24,640 --> 00:21:26,360 Speaker 3: you don't have to plunge the depths of your soul 456 00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:28,000 Speaker 3: to figure out why you're not giving as much charity 457 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:31,160 Speaker 3: as you want. Give a little more tomorrow today, give 458 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,679 Speaker 3: a little more Wednesday than Tuesday, and keep going. And 459 00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 3: what the Bible tells us, and modern social science confirms, 460 00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 3: it takes about three months before that characteristic becomes a 461 00:21:39,520 --> 00:21:42,840 Speaker 3: part of you. So I would say, just identify that 462 00:21:42,960 --> 00:21:45,760 Speaker 3: characteristic that you want to become part of you, that 463 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 3: you want to grow into and grow with, and then 464 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:52,159 Speaker 3: just start doing the thing. And then whatever that thing is, 465 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:54,760 Speaker 3: whatever that characteristic is, it will become part of who 466 00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:55,560 Speaker 3: you are. Yeah. 467 00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: I love that. Do the thing. He is Mark Gerson, 468 00:21:58,359 --> 00:22:01,480 Speaker 1: His book Is God was right up anywhere books are sold. 469 00:22:01,560 --> 00:22:02,880 Speaker 1: Thank you so much, Mark. 470 00:22:03,119 --> 00:22:05,439 Speaker 2: Thank you Carol, so such a great conversation. Really appreciate it.