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Speaker 1: Now here's a highlight from Coast to Coast AM on iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: And welcome back to Coast to Coast George Noriy with you.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Jeffrey Simon with us as we talk about terrorism.

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Speaker 2: One of his books includes The Terrorist Trap. Jeffrey, what

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Speaker 2: got into Osama Bin Laden? Here was a guy who

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Speaker 2: had family money into the millions, the mastermind, one of

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Speaker 2: the mastermind of nine to eleven, definitely the financier. Why

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Speaker 2: would a guy want to do that and ruin everything

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Speaker 2: for himself?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So the.

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Speaker 4: Mind of terrorists is so complex. In this case with

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Speaker 4: the antagonism he had first against the US in terms

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Speaker 4: of the participation in the First Gulf War using Kuwait,

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Speaker 4: and he basically had the following during the Soviet invasion

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Speaker 4: of Afghanistan and he created all these followers, and after

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Speaker 4: they won that war, he decided.

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Speaker 3: To turn it against the US.

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Speaker 4: And you know, he was among the most dangerous terrorists

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Speaker 4: we have had.

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Speaker 2: Do you think there was something mentally ill with him?

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Speaker 3: And yeah, it's always hard to say.

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Speaker 4: You know, a long time ago, many people would always say, oh, well,

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Speaker 4: terrorists have to be mentally ill. And we do have

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Speaker 4: a number of especially within lone wolves a certain percentage

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Speaker 4: that are suffering emotional disorders. But he had his plan,

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Speaker 4: he had his beliefs, and he was able to get

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Speaker 4: all these people to follow him. And so you know,

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Speaker 4: whether or not there was some mental illness there, I

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Speaker 4: really can't say, but he was just definitely a very

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Speaker 4: manipulative leader.

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Speaker 2: How does the media, in your opinion, Jeffrey, handle the

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Speaker 2: handling of terrorist stories.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, there's the relationship between media and terrorists

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Speaker 4: is what we call a symbiotic relationship. But that means

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Speaker 4: is that each need need each needs each other for

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Speaker 4: mutual benefit. For example, the media would need the drama

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Speaker 4: terrorist incidents to generate television ratings and increase circulation of newspapers,

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Speaker 4: and the terrorists would need the media to publicize their cause,

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Speaker 4: give extensive coverage to their attacks, make them seem sometimes

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Speaker 4: more formidable than they may really be. And the media

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Speaker 4: coverage can also bring in new recruits and funds for

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Speaker 4: extremist groups. But it's really been changing with the rise

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Speaker 4: of the Internet and social media. Terrorist groups now don't

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Speaker 4: need traditional media as much as they did in previous years.

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Speaker 3: They can just now post.

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Speaker 4: Themes on the Internet. They can put their websites there

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Speaker 4: and they could call for actions.

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Speaker 3: By the lone wolves.

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Speaker 4: So we're really seeing the relationship change where the social

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Speaker 4: media and the Internet has sort of overtaken traditional media

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Speaker 4: in terms of being something that terrorists strives to affect.

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Speaker 2: And you give us your definition of the lone wolf terrorists.

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Speaker 4: Well, you know, the lone wolf terrorists is really I

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Speaker 4: think the most dangerous threat we're facing today, the most

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Speaker 4: serious threat, but I also would extend it to lone

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Speaker 4: wolves who may not fit the traditional definition of terrorism.

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Speaker 3: So basically, a lone wolf terrorist.

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Speaker 4: Is an individual who who perpetrates a violent act in

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Speaker 4: the name of some ideology or religion or social cause,

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Speaker 4: but does not have any support from an organization, so

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Speaker 4: they're basically working by themselves. They can be inspired via

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Speaker 4: the Internet by these groups, but they're really you know,

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Speaker 4: their own person, their own operation. Now there are cases

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Speaker 4: where we wouldn't call somebody a terrorist if they don't

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Speaker 4: have a political or religious motivation, but that has always

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Speaker 4: sort of bothered me. So for example, the worst mass

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Speaker 4: shooting in our history was the shooting in Las.

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Speaker 3: Vegas where all those music owers.

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Speaker 4: Were killed by exactly and we don't call it terrorism

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Speaker 4: because they never were able to uncover a motive. Yet

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Speaker 4: we have to ask what's the difference. You know, there's

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Speaker 4: still the issue of you know, getting all those guns

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Speaker 4: into the hotel and being able to plant it. And

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Speaker 4: it's almost as though every time this some violent act,

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Speaker 4: we wait and see the media will call it or

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Speaker 4: you know, authorities will say that this terrorism or it's

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Speaker 4: not terrorism.

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Speaker 3: So it's really a gray area.

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Speaker 4: But we only have to look at what's happened this

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Speaker 4: past year to see how lone act or lone wolf's

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Speaker 4: active violence has really become a major threat. We had

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Speaker 4: the shooting of the healthcare insurance executive in New York

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Speaker 4: last October, and the perpetrator was protesting quote unquote corporate greed.

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Speaker 4: Then we had the driving of a truck into a

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Speaker 4: crowd in New Orleans or New Year's Day by an

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Speaker 4: ISIS inspired lone wolf. Then we had the explosion later

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Speaker 4: that day at the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas by

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Speaker 4: an active duty Green Beret who was suffering from post

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Speaker 4: traumatic stress disorder. Then we've had the arson attacks by

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Speaker 4: a lone wolf in February and March in New Mexico.

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Speaker 4: One was at a Tesla's showroom in Albuquerque. The other

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Speaker 4: was against the headquarters of the Republican Party. Then we

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Speaker 4: had the three recent attacks by pro Palestinian lone wolves,

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Speaker 4: the arson attack of the home of Pennsylvania Governor Shapiro,

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Speaker 4: with the shooting of two Israeli embassy staff members in Washington,

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Speaker 4: d C. And the fire bombing of a demonstration to

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Speaker 4: free Israeli hostages in Bouda, Colorado. And then of course

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Speaker 4: we had the shooting last week of Minnesota lawmakers by

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Speaker 4: an anti abortion lone wolf.

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Speaker 3: So we see this.

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Speaker 4: Wide range in types of lone wolves and the wide

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Speaker 4: range of tactics that they used since as shootings, car bombings,

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Speaker 4: fire bombings, truck rammings into crowd.

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Speaker 3: So this threat cuts across.

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Speaker 4: The entire political and religious spectrum. And what's really difficult, George,

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Speaker 4: is that there's no single profile of a lone wolf.

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Speaker 4: Oftentimes they'll have personal grievances, but they'll last onto an

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Speaker 4: ideology to justify their violence.

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Speaker 2: Is it true that most of the lone rlves Jeffrey

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Speaker 2: commits suicide.

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Speaker 4: No, they're about thirty percent have emotional issues or mentally ill.

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Speaker 4: Now some of them again, in terms of suicide by

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Speaker 4: you are just waiting to be shot, or they did

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Speaker 4: a suicide attack.

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Speaker 3: But there are a lot of lone wolves who have

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Speaker 3: been caught.

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Speaker 4: You know, we saw the case of Minnesota right where

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Speaker 4: the lone wolf has been captured, and there are a

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Speaker 4: number of cases where sometimes they actually do not intend

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Speaker 4: to die, but there are a certain number that do.

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Speaker 2: Truly what's their goal, what's their mission? What do they

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Speaker 2: want out of all this?

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Speaker 4: Well, the ones who aren't fully committed to the ideology,

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Speaker 4: they are having financial difficulty, or they have some personal

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Speaker 4: issue and they just have this urge and this desire

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Speaker 4: to commit violence, and they then get kind of latching

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Speaker 4: onto the ideology. Either it could be an Isis al

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Speaker 4: Qaeda ideology, it could be right wing, left wing, whatever

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Speaker 4: it might be, but it gives them a justification for

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Speaker 4: who they are.

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Speaker 3: And it's really.

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Speaker 4: Difficult to deal with the lone wolf violence. But there

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Speaker 4: are certain measures that can be taken, and the most

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Speaker 4: important are the early warning signs of retential attack. Many

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Speaker 4: loan wolves exhibit erratic behavior or say something concerning or

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Speaker 4: lobbing to family and friends about wanting to commit violence,

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Speaker 4: and that has to be reported to the authorities in

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Speaker 4: order to try.

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Speaker 3: To prevent an attack.

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Speaker 4: The monitoring of the Internet and social media while not

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Speaker 4: violating civil liberties and privacy rights is another important strategy

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Speaker 4: that needs to be pursued to reduce these incidents of

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Speaker 4: lone wolf terrorism. Many loan wolves do there talking online

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Speaker 4: by posting manifestos and other things. And also important strategies

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Speaker 4: are the continued use of detection devices in post offices

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Speaker 4: and other places for explosives and chemical agents that may

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Speaker 4: be being sent through the mail. We've had attacks like

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Speaker 4: that in the past by lone wolf and we may have.

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Speaker 3: More in the future.

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Speaker 4: We also need, of course, the expansion of closed circuit

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Speaker 4: television cameras in public places because lone wolves do often

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Speaker 4: pre incident surveillance and hopefully we can catch some of

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Speaker 4: them before they commit that act. And finally, the really

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Speaker 4: important thing for everybody to remember is increase public awareness.

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Speaker 4: You know, we have to be alert for unattended packages

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Speaker 4: and bags in crowded areas and that old slogan.

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Speaker 3: See something, say something.

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Speaker 4: That's the role we all can play in trying to

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Speaker 4: prevent this type of violence.

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Speaker 2: Jeffrey, would you say that the young kid who goes

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Speaker 2: into a school and shoots up his schoolmates. Is a

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Speaker 2: lone wolf terrorist?

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Speaker 4: Definitely a lone wolf now I would, you know, I'll

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Speaker 4: use the broad definition of terrorism in terms of the political, social,

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Speaker 4: religious motive, but we can't call them a terrorist because

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Speaker 4: without that motive, it doesn't fit into our understanding what

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Speaker 4: terrorism is. They definitely call terror and they cause you know, problems,

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Speaker 4: you know, to have this whatever made them commit that act.

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Speaker 4: But the effect is the same as if they say

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Speaker 4: if they said they did it because they had a

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Speaker 4: political reason.

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Speaker 3: To do it.

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Speaker 4: But yeah, I would view them as terrorists. But we

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Speaker 4: sometimes have to have these distinctions because otherwise, you know,

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Speaker 4: somebody who goes into just a convenience store and takes

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Speaker 4: a few hostages there, we don't necessarily always call that terrorism.

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Speaker 2: What do you expect to happen next year?

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Speaker 4: We're going to have more, unfortunately, lone wolf terrorism. I mean,

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Speaker 4: that's really what I see. And the reason because, as

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Speaker 4: I had mentioned, is such a diverse phenomenon and anybody

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Speaker 4: can be inspired to be doing these acts. And you

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Speaker 4: know you mentioned before the role of you know, Iranian

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Speaker 4: sleeper cells. Well, most terrorists don't even need sleeper cells anymore.

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Speaker 4: Because we've seen with ISIS and al Qaeda they just

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Speaker 4: post on their message boards or they have the their

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Speaker 4: website to trying to inspire people to do certain violent

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Speaker 4: acts in their homeland. So unfortunately, we were going to

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Speaker 4: have to be prepared for more of these kinds of attacks.

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Speaker 4: But at the same point, at same time, take some

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Speaker 4: of those measures I mentioned just before to try to

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Speaker 4: reduce the number of attacks.

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Speaker 2: The nine to eleven tourists, of course, all knew that

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Speaker 2: they were going to die on the plane crashes. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it was a suicide mission. What makes that mindset.

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Speaker 3: The religious fanaticism.

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Speaker 4: And actually there was a guidebook or I forgot it

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Speaker 4: called the maybe a manifesto that was found among some

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Speaker 4: of the hijackers before they boarded the plane, and they

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Speaker 4: had all these procedures where they were to stay together

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Speaker 4: and not lose their nerve, not lose you know, their mission,

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Speaker 4: and they just believed they were, you know, on a

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Speaker 4: mission to God and that was you know, they looked

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Speaker 4: upon their suicide as something that they were welcoming.

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Speaker 2: Were they take it since they were kids?

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Speaker 4: You think they sometimes we're surprised that who turns out

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Speaker 4: to be, you know, a terrorist and it's not always

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Speaker 4: anything that you could see early on, you know, in

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Speaker 4: their childhood. So I think some of the nine to

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Speaker 4: eleven terrorists for a long time were very committed to

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Speaker 4: their cause.

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Speaker 3: But I don't know whether or not.

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Speaker 4: You know, as children, they had any experiences or things

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Speaker 4: that were different from other people.

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Speaker 2: You tied a course on terrorism at UCLA for what

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Speaker 2: twenty years, George.

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Speaker 4: It was so fascinating, And the reason is that the

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Speaker 4: students in my class came from all parts of the world,

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Speaker 4: and so they had experiences. Some had experiences with terrorism

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Speaker 4: and their families in their villages, and so when we

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Speaker 4: would get into discussions, it would really really be interesting

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Speaker 4: to see the interactions among you know, all the students,

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Speaker 4: and so I really enjoyed teaching the class. But what

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Speaker 4: I learned as you get older, you have to be

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Speaker 4: careful with some of the jokes you say, because sometimes

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Speaker 4: they just won't get it because of the age difference.

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Speaker 4: You know, MEA's instructor and these as the young students.

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Speaker 4: I would always say before the fourth of July holiday,

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Speaker 4: because you know, you have that hot hot dog eating

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Speaker 4: contest in Coney Island with the hot dogs. I said, okay,

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Speaker 4: have a, yeah, Nathan's hot dogs have a great, great

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Speaker 4: Fourth of July, but don't need too many hot dogs

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Speaker 4: because it's not good for your cholesterol. So they look

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Speaker 4: at me with the blank face like, you know, what's cholesterol?

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Speaker 3: You know they don't have to be worried about that.

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Speaker 4: And then totally but one joke always works no matter

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Speaker 4: how older I got, and that was I would tell

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Speaker 4: the students on the first day of class that basically

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Speaker 4: I want you to get out of this class an

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Speaker 4: understanding of what terrorism is all about, and that ten

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Speaker 4: or twenty years from now you still be able to

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Speaker 4: hope we talk about it intelligently, because we're still going

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Speaker 4: to have terrorism. But if any of you should take

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Speaker 4: the wrong path in life and become a terrorist, please

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Speaker 4: don't cite this class as your inspiration.

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Speaker 3: So that one always.

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Speaker 2: Got the last Well, doctor Jeffrey Simon, we're talking about

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Speaker 2: his work on terrorism. One of his books includes America's

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Speaker 2: Forgotten Terrorists. Where do we get your books?

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Speaker 1: Jeff?

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Speaker 4: They're on Amazon and bonson Lobil, Bondanobyl, and.

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Speaker 3: You go to bookstores.

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Speaker 4: I'm sure the bookstore there could order it, but Bondanobyl

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Speaker 4: and Amazon are easy ways to get them.

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Speaker 2: Have we quit a crippled Al kada An Isis No.

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Speaker 4: I mean we've made great strides against them, and the

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Speaker 4: possibility of another nine to eleven is very remote because

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Speaker 4: of all the security now that we have and how

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Speaker 4: we have weakened them.

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Speaker 3: But they're not totally weak.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they are still active in the Middle East,

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Speaker 4: North Africa, Southeast Asia, and they have worldwide networks, followers

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Speaker 4: and sub routes that can attack in many places. And

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Speaker 4: here in the US. The threat for US in terms

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Speaker 4: of Al Kayder and Isis is when they make these

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Speaker 4: calls for lone wolves to take any action they can,

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Speaker 4: ramming cars into crowds, shooting and whatever for the cause.

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Speaker 3: So that's that's why they still.

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Speaker 4: Remain a former of enemy.

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Speaker 2: And there are a lot of sick people on this planet, Jeffrey, unfortunately,

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Speaker 2: jud and they know I have access to guns and

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Speaker 2: all the other weaponry.

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Speaker 3: I guess they do.

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Speaker 2: Do you think what we're doing with Israel and Iran

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Speaker 2: is the right thing?

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Speaker 4: I have to say, you know right now, I mean

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Speaker 4: time Hotel, everybody would like to see the capability of

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Speaker 4: Iran with the nuclear weapons to you know, be totally eliminated.

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Speaker 4: And President Trump has given a two week kind of

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Speaker 4: rest it now in terms of seeing if there could

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Speaker 4: be a diplomatic solution. But I don't think anybody he

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Speaker 4: has a crystal ball in terms of what is going

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Speaker 4: to happen down the road with this situation.

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