1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:03,400 Speaker 1: The views and opinions expressed in this podcast are solely 2 00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,440 Speaker 1: those of the podcast author or individuals participating in the podcast, 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:11,520 Speaker 1: and do not necessarily represent those of iHeartMedia, how Stuff Works, 4 00:00:11,720 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 1: or its employees. In earlier episodes of Monster, we've mentioned 5 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,840 Speaker 1: all the witnesses that might be able to identify the 6 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,639 Speaker 1: Zodiac killer, Michael Majeaux, the young man who survived the 7 00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:27,440 Speaker 1: attack at Blue Rock Springs, Brian Hartnell, the survivor of 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,880 Speaker 1: the knife attack at Lake Barriessa, and SFPD officer Don 9 00:00:31,920 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: Fouk that encountered the Zodiac fleeing the Paulstein murder scene. 10 00:00:35,920 --> 00:00:39,720 Speaker 1: A combination of the physical descriptions from these brief encounters 11 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: were used to create the infamous police sketch you've probably 12 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,639 Speaker 1: seen floating around the internet. But in nineteen seventy, there 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 1: was another possible witness that had the best chance yet 14 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,920 Speaker 1: of identifying the Zodiac Kathleen Johns. 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:59,440 Speaker 2: In March of nineteen seventy, a young woman claimed that 16 00:00:59,520 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: she had been driving along a freeway and a vehicle 17 00:01:02,440 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 2: pulled up alongside her, and the man inside gestured towards 18 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:07,720 Speaker 2: her vehicle as if there was something wrong. 19 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:11,360 Speaker 3: Was there any any sensation to your vehicle that there 20 00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 3: was something wrong with your vehicle while you're driving. 21 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:15,960 Speaker 4: You know, it was an old Wrangley car. Anything could 22 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:17,760 Speaker 4: have been wrong. The back of lights would have been out, 23 00:01:17,840 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 4: anything could have been wrong with it. 24 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 5: I wouldn't it was running fire. 25 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:27,200 Speaker 2: So she pulled over, and according to the story, the 26 00:01:27,240 --> 00:01:30,199 Speaker 2: man pulled over and said, hey, your tires loose. I'll 27 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:31,040 Speaker 2: tighten it for you. 28 00:01:31,440 --> 00:01:34,960 Speaker 4: So he went back and got a tire iron, came back, 29 00:01:35,040 --> 00:01:38,240 Speaker 4: went to the back, settled around, stopped again at the 30 00:01:38,280 --> 00:01:39,280 Speaker 4: window and said. 31 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 6: It's okay. 32 00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:43,600 Speaker 4: You know her, it should be okay. 33 00:01:43,680 --> 00:01:46,880 Speaker 2: What he did was actually loosen the tire and. 34 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,040 Speaker 4: I'll go too far on the year across the street, 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:51,160 Speaker 4: not even. 36 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 5: And the tire fell off. 37 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:56,200 Speaker 2: That gave him a perfect opportunity to pretend to be 38 00:01:56,240 --> 00:02:01,640 Speaker 2: the good Samaritan and offer her a ride. 39 00:02:03,280 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 3: A man in a mask robbed, tied, and stabbed them, 40 00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:07,440 Speaker 3: leaving them for dead. 41 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 7: Subjects stated, I want to report a murder, no a 42 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:13,280 Speaker 7: double murder. 43 00:02:13,919 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 6: I did it. 44 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,880 Speaker 3: A man who wore a medieval style executioner's hood, carried 45 00:02:18,880 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 3: a knife and gun and intended to use them. 46 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 8: They haven't arrested me because they can't prove a thing. 47 00:02:26,639 --> 00:02:28,160 Speaker 8: I'm not the damn Zodiac? 48 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 3: Who is the Zodiac and where is he from? 49 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:37,520 Speaker 9: iHeartRadio, Houstuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. This is Monster the 50 00:02:37,600 --> 00:02:45,200 Speaker 9: Zodiac Killer. In this episode of Monster, we're going to 51 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,040 Speaker 9: hit rewind and talk about some things you've likely never 52 00:02:48,080 --> 00:02:52,320 Speaker 9: heard before. Until the early nineteen seventies, everyone believed the 53 00:02:52,320 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 9: first Zodiac killing was in nineteen sixty eight, the murder 54 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 9: of Betty Lou Jensen and David Faraday in Benetia. But 55 00:02:59,560 --> 00:03:03,600 Speaker 9: after a while, investigators realized that the Zodiac's trail might 56 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:07,480 Speaker 9: go back a few more years. Today, as the Zodiac 57 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:11,560 Speaker 9: case passes the fifty year anniversary without any arrests, without 58 00:03:11,560 --> 00:03:14,959 Speaker 9: any answers, we're taking the opportunity to examine a few 59 00:03:15,000 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 9: earlier unsolved cases, including the case of Kathleen John's. 60 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:24,680 Speaker 1: On March twenty second, nineteen seventy, Kathleen Johns and her 61 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 1: infant daughter Jennifer had a terrifying experience on a dark 62 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:32,480 Speaker 1: and desolate highway. After more than two decades of silence, 63 00:03:32,760 --> 00:03:34,960 Speaker 1: Kathleen finally spoke of this incident. 64 00:03:35,440 --> 00:03:37,760 Speaker 4: I had more sense than to stop on this dark road. 65 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:39,360 Speaker 4: You know, I wanted to get where there was one 66 00:03:39,480 --> 00:03:41,440 Speaker 4: night when I could hope they hurt. But when I 67 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 4: got onto the freeway where I could see a gap 68 00:03:43,880 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 4: the enemy, I stopped on the sidelok. 69 00:03:46,280 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: Two men interviewed Kathleen at a diner in nineteen ninety eight. 70 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: We've come into possession of a rare copy of this interview. 71 00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:57,360 Speaker 1: Kathleen John's account of that evening is one of the 72 00:03:57,400 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 1: many unsolved cases that some believe to be the work 73 00:04:00,440 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 1: of the Zodiac. 74 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: Kathleen Johns was pregnant at the time, and she also 75 00:04:06,600 --> 00:04:09,760 Speaker 2: had her infant daughter with her. That's something that the 76 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,000 Speaker 2: person may not have known when he was driving alongside 77 00:04:13,040 --> 00:04:14,960 Speaker 2: that car and trying to get her to pull over, 78 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,159 Speaker 2: and he may not have realized that until the last moment, 79 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: when he had already offered her a ride and she 80 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:23,599 Speaker 2: gets out of the car with her stomach and her baby. 81 00:04:24,560 --> 00:04:28,600 Speaker 2: It's possible that at that moment the person reconsidered what 82 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:32,159 Speaker 2: they were doing and may have decided, well, I was 83 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:35,000 Speaker 2: intending to kill this person, but now I know she's 84 00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:37,560 Speaker 2: pregnant and she's got a baby with her, I'm not 85 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,120 Speaker 2: sure I really want to go through with it. 86 00:04:39,720 --> 00:04:41,520 Speaker 5: Okay, let me ask you this why did you stop 87 00:04:41,560 --> 00:04:41,840 Speaker 5: your car? 88 00:04:42,520 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 4: Well, I wanted to see what when they was wrong, 89 00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 4: but you know, I wanted to get word of it 90 00:04:46,200 --> 00:04:49,640 Speaker 4: was more night in lahaw I could see a gas station. 91 00:04:50,279 --> 00:04:52,440 Speaker 2: We don't know for sure what happened, but we do 92 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:54,680 Speaker 2: know that Kathleen John's got in the car with that 93 00:04:54,760 --> 00:04:59,680 Speaker 2: individual and that he appeared to be driving aimlessly away 94 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 2: from gas station. He promised to take her to and 95 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:06,360 Speaker 2: at a certain point she became suspicious. 96 00:05:06,920 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 7: Now you know he said to you that he was 97 00:05:09,680 --> 00:05:12,560 Speaker 7: going to kill you? Did he utter that or infer 98 00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 7: that again? 99 00:05:14,080 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 4: Many times? In this monotone, no feeling, no looking at me, 100 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:18,480 Speaker 4: driving on. 101 00:05:19,400 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 2: In her earlier statements, it indicated that he did not 102 00:05:22,920 --> 00:05:25,440 Speaker 2: threaten her, but later on she claimed that he said 103 00:05:25,440 --> 00:05:27,440 Speaker 2: that he was going to kill her and throw the 104 00:05:27,480 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 2: baby out the window. 105 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:31,880 Speaker 4: Did he change the wording or was it always you 106 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:33,760 Speaker 4: know you're gonna die. You know I'm going to kill 107 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:35,200 Speaker 4: you and throw that baby out? 108 00:05:35,400 --> 00:05:37,960 Speaker 3: How many times did he ask you to throw Jennifer off? 109 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 4: Quite a few? I mean you don't have a dozen. 110 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:43,600 Speaker 4: We were out there, seemed to go for a long time. 111 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,240 Speaker 2: Kathleen became very concerned. She asked him at a certain point, 112 00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,440 Speaker 2: do you always go around helping people like this? And 113 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,599 Speaker 2: she said that he replied by saying, when I'm through 114 00:05:55,600 --> 00:05:58,320 Speaker 2: with him, they don't need help, or something to that effect. 115 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,479 Speaker 2: This scared her enough that after I guess about two hours, 116 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: she decided that the next time he slowed down that 117 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 2: she was going to jump out. So she seized the 118 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,600 Speaker 2: first opportunity that came along. She grabbed your child, jumped out, 119 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:13,719 Speaker 2: ran away. 120 00:06:14,800 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 4: When I bailed, he got out to you like car 121 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 4: like Kemon hadn't that vineyards everywhere, because he was yelling. 122 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:22,240 Speaker 6: Come back here. 123 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:25,800 Speaker 2: According to various reports, he either screamed at her from 124 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: the car or got out of the car and tried 125 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: to find her, But then another vehicle pulled up and 126 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 2: he apparently got spooked and drove away. She got into 127 00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,040 Speaker 2: the car with that individual, and that person took her 128 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: to the nearby police department, where she was describing what happened. 129 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,480 Speaker 2: And while she was in the course of giving her 130 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:50,160 Speaker 2: story to police, she saw a composite sketch of the 131 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:54,359 Speaker 2: Zodiac killer and said, that's the guy who did this. 132 00:06:56,160 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: Shortly after that, which I believe four months later, another 133 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:00,760 Speaker 2: Zodiac let her arrived. 134 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:06,560 Speaker 10: This is the Zodiac speaking. I am rather unhappy because 135 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:10,240 Speaker 10: you people will not wear some Zodiac buttons. So I 136 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:13,080 Speaker 10: now have a little list, starting with a woman and 137 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 10: her baby that I gave a rather interesting ride for 138 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 10: a couple hours one evening a few months back that 139 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:21,320 Speaker 10: ended in my burning her car where I found them 140 00:07:21,560 --> 00:07:23,440 Speaker 10: signed Zodiac. 141 00:07:24,560 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 2: Kathleen John's station wagon was burned. We don't know whether 142 00:07:28,360 --> 00:07:30,440 Speaker 2: or not the killer did that. We don't know whether 143 00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,680 Speaker 2: or not the person who abducted her was actually the Zodiac. 144 00:07:33,680 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 2: And maybe the Zodiac was just taking credit for it 145 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 2: because that's what the media was saying. It's possible that 146 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 2: the Zodiac liked to create confusion and thought he would 147 00:07:44,000 --> 00:07:47,880 Speaker 2: benefit from that. So if he did abduct Kathleen John's 148 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:51,360 Speaker 2: and he took the credit for it, then he was 149 00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:56,160 Speaker 2: just acknowledging his involvement as already reported by the media. 150 00:07:56,680 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 2: If he wasn't involved and he decided to take credit 151 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,760 Speaker 2: for it because people were already accusing him of that, 152 00:08:02,760 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: that tells you something about him too, that he thought, well, 153 00:08:06,240 --> 00:08:08,360 Speaker 2: this just adds to my image. It makes me look 154 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,240 Speaker 2: all the more scary. And at the same time, if 155 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: it wasn't him, what happens. When Kathleen Johns identifies the 156 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 2: person or describes that person, it's not him, right, So 157 00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:23,720 Speaker 2: that just creates more confusion. If the Zodiac was not 158 00:08:23,840 --> 00:08:27,960 Speaker 2: responsible for that crime, he certainly enjoyed exploiting it because 159 00:08:27,960 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 2: it added and it patted his resume. So in the end, 160 00:08:32,880 --> 00:08:36,960 Speaker 2: Kathleen Johns is listed as a suspected Zodiac victim. But 161 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 2: since she's also passed away and there was no solid evidence, 162 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 2: I don't think we'll ever be able to answer that question. 163 00:08:48,720 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: Her interview was recorded in nineteen ninety eight, nearly twenty 164 00:08:52,280 --> 00:08:56,520 Speaker 1: eight years after her encounter. By this time, Kathleen's name 165 00:08:56,559 --> 00:08:57,920 Speaker 1: had changed to Smith. 166 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:04,680 Speaker 7: On January one, nineteen ninety eight, meeting with Kathy Smith, 167 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:06,720 Speaker 7: Howard Davis is also here present. 168 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:09,880 Speaker 5: I hope, Kathy, that this comes out with all. 169 00:09:09,800 --> 00:09:11,719 Speaker 8: Of the background noise and everything. 170 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:12,480 Speaker 4: But I'm going to ask. 171 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 5: You to kind of speak up a little bit, if 172 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:14,440 Speaker 5: you would. 173 00:09:18,240 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: Even after so much time had passed, Kathleen still remembered 174 00:09:22,200 --> 00:09:23,400 Speaker 1: the incident vividly. 175 00:09:23,960 --> 00:09:26,760 Speaker 2: Did you have any sense at all that views behind you? 176 00:09:27,160 --> 00:09:28,480 Speaker 4: There was the car behind me and. 177 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,720 Speaker 5: Kept watching his light. I had always hoped to be 178 00:09:33,760 --> 00:09:36,680 Speaker 5: able to talk to Kathleen and we were fortune to 179 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:38,200 Speaker 5: talk from before she passed away. 180 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,640 Speaker 1: This is Howard Davis, one of the men who interviewed Kathleen. 181 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:48,319 Speaker 5: He had secured an interview with Kathleen at a local Dennis. 182 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 5: When we interviewed Kathleen for a while and then John, 183 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:56,640 Speaker 5: a reporter went out for battery. We really just got 184 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 5: the basics from her. We just went through the interview. 185 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 5: He really didn't get much, but we did get some 186 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,120 Speaker 5: information that no one had heard about before. I don't 187 00:10:07,160 --> 00:10:09,480 Speaker 5: think there were any other interviews after that. 188 00:10:10,400 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: Howard Davis wholeheartedly believes that Kathleen encountered the Zodiac that day. 189 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: Kathleen's description of her abductor closely resembled other eyewitness descriptions 190 00:10:21,320 --> 00:10:22,120 Speaker 1: of the Zodiac. 191 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,679 Speaker 5: He was wearing the bell bottom pants, the naval appearance, 192 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 5: military dress shoes, military dress shoes. Footprints were found at 193 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 5: the base scene where her car was That a part 194 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,400 Speaker 5: she was a Zodiac victim. She's the only one to 195 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 5: escape the Zodiac, not only with her life but unharmed, 196 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:45,200 Speaker 5: even right next to the Zodiac. 197 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 2: The Kathleen John's abduction does not fit the Zodiac's previously 198 00:11:06,840 --> 00:11:09,319 Speaker 2: established pattern, but also at the same time, he also 199 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:12,760 Speaker 2: deviated from his pattern, going from couples to a cab driver. 200 00:11:13,520 --> 00:11:15,120 Speaker 2: Then he said that he was no longer going to 201 00:11:15,160 --> 00:11:17,000 Speaker 2: announce his murders and they were going to look like 202 00:11:17,080 --> 00:11:21,400 Speaker 2: fake accidents and routine robberies and killings of anger. So 203 00:11:21,440 --> 00:11:24,640 Speaker 2: maybe he had some plan for what he wanted to do, 204 00:11:24,720 --> 00:11:27,280 Speaker 2: but it did involve a drastic change in his mo 205 00:11:28,160 --> 00:11:31,400 Speaker 2: Maybe he was going to murder her and make it 206 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 2: look like an accident. Maybe he was going to come 207 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 2: back and wreck her car or do something. I don't know, 208 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:39,560 Speaker 2: but there's some people who believe that if he was 209 00:11:39,640 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 2: responsible for that crime, that he burned the car to 210 00:11:43,120 --> 00:11:46,439 Speaker 2: cover up evidence, because he may have touched the car 211 00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 2: when he was loosening the lugnuts on the wheel. There's 212 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,360 Speaker 2: also the possibility that he had intended to kill John's 213 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: and then decided not to go through with it because 214 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 2: she was pregnant and had a kid, and then was 215 00:11:58,200 --> 00:12:01,080 Speaker 2: frustrated and needed to do something, so he drove back 216 00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,880 Speaker 2: to where the car was and set fire to it. 217 00:12:03,880 --> 00:12:06,920 Speaker 2: It also possibly had nothing to do with it, and 218 00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 2: Kathleen Johns was wrong in her identification. But then you 219 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 2: come to the fact that During that same period of time, 220 00:12:14,320 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 2: there was also speculation that the Zodiac may have been 221 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,840 Speaker 2: involved in another murder in nineteen sixty six at Riverside 222 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:26,480 Speaker 2: City College. After the Zodiac murders were being reported in 223 00:12:26,559 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 2: the media, investigators in Riverside were watching and saying, this 224 00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: looks kind of familiar and maybe these crimes are connected. 225 00:12:35,120 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 2: So they contacted the Zodiac investigators and reported their suspicions, 226 00:12:41,040 --> 00:12:43,680 Speaker 2: and after investigators looked at this, they thought it was 227 00:12:43,760 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 2: very possible that the Zodiac had committed the crime in Riverside. 228 00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 2: You had a young woman who was apparently visiting the 229 00:12:51,520 --> 00:12:57,200 Speaker 2: college library, and while she was inside, someone disabled her car, 230 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,960 Speaker 2: and when she came out and her car was start 231 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,720 Speaker 2: this person allegedly offered her a ride, and then when 232 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: she went with him, he took her off into a 233 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:11,960 Speaker 2: darkened area and stabbed her to death. So if the 234 00:13:12,040 --> 00:13:15,920 Speaker 2: Zodiac was responsible for the murdered Riverside, then that does 235 00:13:15,960 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 2: provide some indication that he may have been responsible for 236 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:23,600 Speaker 2: the Johns event, because there's a similarity of selecting a 237 00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:27,920 Speaker 2: single woman, disabling her car and such. Then later on 238 00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:32,920 Speaker 2: San Francisco Chronicle reporter Paul Avery learned of this possible 239 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,040 Speaker 2: connection and reported it in the media in what was 240 00:13:36,080 --> 00:13:37,559 Speaker 2: called the Riverside Connection. 241 00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:42,560 Speaker 1: Was the Riverside killing of Sherry Joe Bates somehow connected 242 00:13:42,559 --> 00:13:47,320 Speaker 1: to the midnight abduction of Kathleen John's and were both 243 00:13:47,360 --> 00:13:50,680 Speaker 1: of these crimes three and a half years apart committed 244 00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:53,800 Speaker 1: by the Zodiac. We learned there was a possibility of 245 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,720 Speaker 1: finding some unprocessed film footage of Paul Avery just after 246 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: he made the Riverside connection. There was only one place 247 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,319 Speaker 1: to go in search of a rare piece of film 248 00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: like that, the Bay Area Television Archive in San Francisco. 249 00:14:12,840 --> 00:14:15,839 Speaker 8: My name is Alex Cherrian. I'm the film archivist at 250 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:19,680 Speaker 8: San Francisco State University's John Paul Nnard Library. The Bay 251 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 8: Area Television Archive is in our Department of Special Collections. 252 00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:27,680 Speaker 8: This is where we preserve and remaster local news film, 253 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 8: documentary broadcast video tape from the nineteen fifties through to 254 00:14:32,600 --> 00:14:35,760 Speaker 8: about two thousand. Before we work on it, it's just 255 00:14:35,840 --> 00:14:38,360 Speaker 8: old film and tape. By the time we finished with it. 256 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:41,160 Speaker 8: What you're looking at is a screener which is viewable 257 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:47,120 Speaker 8: online for free. I enjoy local, specific regional history a lot. 258 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:50,840 Speaker 8: I like being able to relate to it, to look 259 00:14:50,880 --> 00:14:53,880 Speaker 8: at a building and know what happened there fifty years ago. 260 00:14:53,960 --> 00:14:55,960 Speaker 8: I also like being on the cutting edge of finding 261 00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 8: stuff and making it available. If someone comes up with 262 00:14:59,240 --> 00:15:02,440 Speaker 8: some kind of kookie idea which is patently ridiculous, I 263 00:15:02,480 --> 00:15:04,920 Speaker 8: don't care. It needs to be explored in order to 264 00:15:05,000 --> 00:15:08,400 Speaker 8: rule it out. And making all of our stuff available online, 265 00:15:08,440 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 8: I enjoyed doing that. I get an excitement from doing it. 266 00:15:11,840 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 8: It could be the Zodiac, it could be a chess tournament, 267 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 8: it could be something to do with Jerry Brown, who 268 00:15:18,160 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 8: features in our collections way back to the early seventies. 269 00:15:21,160 --> 00:15:24,320 Speaker 8: I don't mind. You either enjoy that or you don't, 270 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 8: and I love it. So this is the raw news film. 271 00:15:33,480 --> 00:15:35,280 Speaker 8: This is how it was put into cans before it 272 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:39,320 Speaker 8: came to us in the early nineteen eighties. So what 273 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:42,920 Speaker 8: you're looking at there is a reel of sixteen milimeter 274 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:48,480 Speaker 8: film from the early nineteen seventies. It doesn't even have 275 00:15:48,560 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 8: a plastic core on it, which means you can't even 276 00:15:50,720 --> 00:15:53,480 Speaker 8: project it. This is just coming raw from the lab. 277 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 8: I guarantee you no one's touched that for over forty years. 278 00:15:57,120 --> 00:15:59,440 Speaker 8: It may have been covered in a similar fashion by 279 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,040 Speaker 8: a different tea v station. But the sound of the 280 00:16:02,080 --> 00:16:05,800 Speaker 8: reporter or the eyewitness or the detective talking about a 281 00:16:05,840 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 8: zodiac in nineteen seventy two, no one's ever heard that, 282 00:16:08,880 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 8: and it will be decent quality because no one's been 283 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:12,840 Speaker 8: messing around with it. 284 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,320 Speaker 3: What things in this evidence you've got from the Riverside 285 00:16:22,320 --> 00:16:24,920 Speaker 3: police actually lead you to believe that there could be 286 00:16:25,040 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 3: or is some connection. 287 00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:31,640 Speaker 6: Oh there's police lineage, the motors OPERANDU of the killer, 288 00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 6: the Cherry bas space and river Side and zodioacil. Are 289 00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 6: there many eagle media wanting to get recognition for the 290 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,560 Speaker 6: killer writing to a new State the fact that in 291 00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 6: no cases, including the Sharrybase, has there ever been sexual molestation. 292 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,680 Speaker 6: Usually in a killing of a coat, it's usually a 293 00:16:57,760 --> 00:17:02,320 Speaker 6: sex herely just for the shares Ler phone, I received 294 00:17:02,320 --> 00:17:07,440 Speaker 6: the letter individual in southern California pointing outre similarity was 295 00:17:08,600 --> 00:17:12,639 Speaker 6: actually it was an anonymous letter, and I felt that 296 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,960 Speaker 6: there might be something for it, so I contacted the 297 00:17:15,040 --> 00:17:19,520 Speaker 6: Riverside Police. Were very cooperative to computer and gave me 298 00:17:20,040 --> 00:17:23,200 Speaker 6: information on the phone and then sent me some information 299 00:17:23,359 --> 00:17:28,360 Speaker 6: zerox copies of thirsty documents. This is the first one 300 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 6: of the first two letters that was received by the 301 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:35,720 Speaker 6: newspaper in Riverside and by the police department. The inside 302 00:17:35,800 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 6: was a typewritten confession, and this is known to be 303 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,560 Speaker 6: from the murder sary base because of details in the 304 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:45,800 Speaker 6: unsigned profession. This was received exactly one month of the 305 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,479 Speaker 6: day after she was killed. 306 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,440 Speaker 9: You're about to hear the letter that Paul Avery just described. 307 00:17:52,119 --> 00:17:56,320 Speaker 9: This letter contains graphic details. Listener discretion is advised. 308 00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,800 Speaker 10: Miss Bates was stupid. She went to the slaughter like 309 00:18:01,840 --> 00:18:05,159 Speaker 10: a lamb. She did not put up a struggle, but 310 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:08,840 Speaker 10: I did. It was a ball. I first pulled the 311 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,800 Speaker 10: middle wire from the distributor. Then I waited for in 312 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:15,560 Speaker 10: the library and followed her out. After two minutes, the 313 00:18:15,600 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 10: battery must have been about dead by then. I then 314 00:18:18,640 --> 00:18:21,800 Speaker 10: offered to help. She was then very willing to talk 315 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 10: to me. I told her that my car was down 316 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 10: the street and I would give her a lift home. 317 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:31,040 Speaker 10: When we were away from the library walking, I said 318 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,560 Speaker 10: it was about time. She asked me about time. For 319 00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:38,360 Speaker 10: what I said, it was about time for her to die. 320 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 10: I grabbed her around the neck with my hand over 321 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:42,639 Speaker 10: her mouth and my other hand with a small knife 322 00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 10: at her throat. She went very willingly. Her breast felt 323 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,640 Speaker 10: very warm and firm under my hands, but only one 324 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,480 Speaker 10: thing was on my mind, making her pay for the 325 00:18:53,520 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 10: brush offs that she had given me during the years prior. 326 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 10: She died hard. She squirmed and shook as I choked her, 327 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 10: and her lips twitched. She let out a scream once, 328 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:08,080 Speaker 10: and I kicked her head to shut her up. I 329 00:19:08,160 --> 00:19:11,680 Speaker 10: plunged the knife into her and it broke. I didn't 330 00:19:11,680 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 10: finish the job by cutting her throat. I'm not sick, 331 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 10: I am insane, but that will not stop the game. 332 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 10: This letter should be published for all to read it. 333 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,600 Speaker 10: It just might save that girl in the alley, but 334 00:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,680 Speaker 10: that's up to you. It will be on your conscious, 335 00:19:30,520 --> 00:19:34,800 Speaker 10: not mine. Yes, I did make that call to you also, 336 00:19:35,119 --> 00:19:39,240 Speaker 10: it was just a warning, beware, I am stalking your 337 00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:41,320 Speaker 10: girls now. 338 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: Now, some of that information appears to have been available 339 00:19:49,480 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 2: in the public media at the time, but it's still 340 00:19:52,320 --> 00:19:55,000 Speaker 2: possible that it was the actual killer who wrote it, 341 00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,360 Speaker 2: or someone who was trying to misdirect the investigation. I'm 342 00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:01,520 Speaker 2: sure that if things did go down the way that 343 00:20:01,560 --> 00:20:04,600 Speaker 2: it's described in that letter, she thought that man was 344 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:07,840 Speaker 2: going to help her, and just like a lake Barry Essa, 345 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: that person took advantage of her and forced her to 346 00:20:10,640 --> 00:20:13,280 Speaker 2: participate in her own murder, and in the letter, he 347 00:20:13,400 --> 00:20:15,800 Speaker 2: said she went to the slaughter like a lamb. 348 00:20:16,760 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: So the police potentially had a Zodiac letter as early 349 00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: as nineteen sixty six, just one month after the Bates murder. 350 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:27,679 Speaker 1: At the time, police thought the note was written by 351 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 1: the actual killer because the information included in the letter 352 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:35,120 Speaker 1: was highly detailed, specifically the manner in which the attacker 353 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:38,960 Speaker 1: disabled the victim's car. I can't help but wonder why 354 00:20:38,960 --> 00:20:42,159 Speaker 1: didn't the Sherry Joe Bates case get more attention prior 355 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: to the nineteen sixty eight killings, but there was even 356 00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:49,920 Speaker 1: more madness to come. Presumably the same person also sent 357 00:20:50,040 --> 00:20:54,560 Speaker 1: another series of letters, this time to police, the newspaper, 358 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:58,120 Speaker 1: and even to the father of Sherry Joe Bates. Paul 359 00:20:58,160 --> 00:20:59,679 Speaker 1: Avery explains. 360 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:06,240 Speaker 6: Six months later, after her murder, the Riverside Place, the 361 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:09,040 Speaker 6: local newspaper, the Press, enter Prize, and the girl's father 362 00:21:10,600 --> 00:21:14,520 Speaker 6: each received a letter. And this is where Ibole he writing, 363 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:18,160 Speaker 6: you're very very similar to zodiacs. You are other things 364 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 6: that make me think that it's quite possibly human. And 365 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 6: inside of these onlined pre whole notebook paper. It said 366 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 6: Bates had to die, there will be more, and right 367 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:37,560 Speaker 6: at the bottom, this is a Z. 368 00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: The stylized Z at the bottom of the nineteen sixty 369 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: six letter is undeniable, but it's also unlike the Zodiac's 370 00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:49,159 Speaker 1: other signed letters, the ones that he ended with his 371 00:21:49,280 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: circle cross signature. But even nineteen sixty six may not 372 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: be the start of the Zodiac's reign of terror. His 373 00:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,600 Speaker 1: work may go back even further. Investigators on the Sherry 374 00:22:00,680 --> 00:22:04,320 Speaker 1: Joe Bates case connected her murder to another fatal incident 375 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:07,280 Speaker 1: in the area. This time it was a young couple 376 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: on the beach three years earlier in nineteen sixty three. 377 00:22:11,520 --> 00:22:16,399 Speaker 1: On a tip, we reached out to k EYTTV in Sacramento, California, 378 00:22:16,440 --> 00:22:20,040 Speaker 1: regarding a feature from twenty ten that revealed the only 379 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: known footage of the crime scene. It's a seventeen second 380 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,960 Speaker 1: look at an old shack on the beach where the 381 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:30,200 Speaker 1: bodies of two murdered teenagers were dragged and then burned. 382 00:22:30,680 --> 00:22:34,040 Speaker 7: If Sherry Joe Bates was not the first, who was. 383 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,399 Speaker 7: The answer may be buried in these forty three year 384 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:40,640 Speaker 7: old files in the Santa Barbara County Sheriff's. 385 00:22:40,359 --> 00:22:41,320 Speaker 1: Cold Case Unit. 386 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:46,399 Speaker 7: On June fourth, nineteen sixty three, Lompo teenagers Lynda Edwards 387 00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:50,119 Speaker 7: and Robert Domingo's celebrated senior Ditch Day by going to 388 00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,399 Speaker 7: a secluded beach shack twenty five miles west of Santa Barbara. 389 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:57,320 Speaker 7: They planned to graduate in two days then get married, 390 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:01,560 Speaker 7: but the next night a CHPI officer discovered their bodies 391 00:23:01,640 --> 00:23:06,320 Speaker 7: inside the shack. Robert had been shot eleven times, Linda 392 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,320 Speaker 7: eight times. This is the remote beach where Edwards and 393 00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:10,720 Speaker 7: Domingos were gone down. 394 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,600 Speaker 3: As you can see, the old beach shack is long gone, 395 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,000 Speaker 3: just like the killer and any evidence that might identify it. 396 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 3: This old newsreel, just discovered in the. 397 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:24,639 Speaker 7: KYT archives, is the only known film footage of the 398 00:23:24,640 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 7: crime scene. It shows the area around the beach shack 399 00:23:28,200 --> 00:23:31,439 Speaker 7: where the killers shot the teens, and inside where he 400 00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:33,800 Speaker 7: dragged their bodies and tried to burn it down to 401 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:37,159 Speaker 7: hide the evidence. The last time this footage aired publicly 402 00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,359 Speaker 7: was forty two years ago, when no one could have 403 00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 7: known its significance. It's only seventeen seconds long, but even 404 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 7: Sheriff's investigators who worked on the case more than thirty 405 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:52,080 Speaker 7: years ago didn't know the film existed. They're also convinced 406 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:56,880 Speaker 7: a young, inexperienced Zodiac murdered Edwards and Domingos more than 407 00:23:56,960 --> 00:24:00,240 Speaker 7: five years before his reign of terror in San Francis. 408 00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 1: But there was more to the story. This case had 409 00:24:05,560 --> 00:24:09,400 Speaker 1: several similarities to other known Zodiac crimes, especially the Lake 410 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:13,400 Speaker 1: Berriessa attack in nineteen sixty nine that left Cecilia Shepherd 411 00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:17,560 Speaker 1: dead and Brian Hartnell fighting for his life. The attacker 412 00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:20,480 Speaker 1: approached the teens while they were sunbathing and relaxing on 413 00:24:20,520 --> 00:24:24,920 Speaker 1: the beach at gunpoint. One of the teens, Robert Domingos, 414 00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,080 Speaker 1: was bound using rope the attacker brought to the scene. 415 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: The weapon used to kill the couple was a twenty 416 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,560 Speaker 1: two caliber semi automatic, possibly a rifle, again with the 417 00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:40,040 Speaker 1: Winchester Western Super ex ammunition, the same rounds used by 418 00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,960 Speaker 1: the Zodiac during the nineteen sixty eight murders on Lake 419 00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,280 Speaker 1: Herman Road. There were no witnesses and there was no 420 00:24:46,359 --> 00:24:51,320 Speaker 1: evidence of robbery or sexual assault. Attempting to hide then 421 00:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,800 Speaker 1: burn the bodies of his victims was unique to this case. 422 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:58,200 Speaker 1: That could have been due to the attacker's lack of experience. 423 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:02,119 Speaker 1: Either way, with little evidence and no witnesses. The case 424 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,320 Speaker 1: had no leads for many years, and it remained open 425 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:11,359 Speaker 1: nine years later. In nineteen seventy two, the Santa Barbara 426 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:14,800 Speaker 1: Sheriff's Department issued a press release connecting the Domingos and 427 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:19,080 Speaker 1: Edwards murders to the Zodiac Killer, but that connection was 428 00:25:19,160 --> 00:25:33,159 Speaker 1: never officially confirmed. The Zodiac Killer had taken notice of 429 00:25:33,240 --> 00:25:36,919 Speaker 1: Paul Avery's detective work back in nineteen seventy connecting the 430 00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 1: killing of Sherry Joe Bates and the abduction of Kathleen John's, 431 00:25:40,720 --> 00:25:44,359 Speaker 1: a link that Avery called the Riverside Connection. The killer 432 00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,160 Speaker 1: even acknowledged Avery's efforts within a letter to the La 433 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,080 Speaker 1: Times on March thirteenth, nineteen seventy one. 434 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:55,640 Speaker 10: This is the Zodiac speaking like I have always said. 435 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:01,040 Speaker 10: I'm crapproof. If the Blumeni's they're ever going to catch me, 436 00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:04,359 Speaker 10: they had best get off their fat asses and do something, 437 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:08,800 Speaker 10: because the longer they fiddle and fart around, the more 438 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,600 Speaker 10: slaves I will collect from my afterlife. I do have 439 00:26:12,640 --> 00:26:15,440 Speaker 10: to give them credit for stumbling across my riverside activity, 440 00:26:16,440 --> 00:26:19,560 Speaker 10: but they are only finding the easy ones. There are 441 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,960 Speaker 10: a hell of a lot more down there. The reason 442 00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 10: I'm writing to the Times is this. They don't bury 443 00:26:25,960 --> 00:26:27,840 Speaker 10: me on the back pages like some of the others. 444 00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:48,200 Speaker 10: San Francisco Police Department zero Zodiac seventeen plus. 445 00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:52,119 Speaker 1: The Zodiac was now further mocking police by claiming to 446 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: have taken the lives of as many as seventeen or 447 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,080 Speaker 1: more victims. However, the official body count remained at five 448 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,240 Speaker 1: after the murder of cab driver Paul Stein. Michael Butterfield 449 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:07,080 Speaker 1: remains unconvinced that Kathleen Johns was truly abducted by the 450 00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,639 Speaker 1: Zodiac Killer in March of nineteen seventy. He believes it 451 00:27:10,640 --> 00:27:15,520 Speaker 1: could have easily been someone else. Others, including Kathleen Johns herself, 452 00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:19,480 Speaker 1: continued to believe it was the Zodiac Killer, Yet the 453 00:27:19,560 --> 00:27:22,720 Speaker 1: details and the facts surrounding that evening are still a 454 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:27,200 Speaker 1: little loose. Also, what was the Zodiac's motivation for abducting 455 00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:29,639 Speaker 1: her and her infant daughter that evening? Was it to 456 00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:32,880 Speaker 1: keep up with the recent media attention Charles Manson was receiving, 457 00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: or had the Zodiac been doing this kind of thing 458 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,760 Speaker 1: all along and had just stopped providing details in his letters. 459 00:27:40,920 --> 00:27:44,880 Speaker 1: Whatever the situation, this was exactly the break investigators were 460 00:27:44,880 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: looking for. If Kathleen Johns truly did spend two hours 461 00:27:49,560 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: in a car sitting right next to the Zodiac Killer, 462 00:27:53,320 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: would she be able to identify the right man. 463 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 9: Time time on Monster the Zodiac Killer. 464 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 6: This is the Ballejo man many investigators considered to be 465 00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,160 Speaker 6: the notorious Zodiac Killer, and this is the first time 466 00:28:11,240 --> 00:28:12,960 Speaker 6: his picture has been revealed. 467 00:28:13,320 --> 00:28:14,760 Speaker 10: Are you the Zodiac Killer? 468 00:28:14,840 --> 00:28:19,800 Speaker 8: There would be nothing farther from my mind. No, I'm 469 00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,080 Speaker 8: most certainly not the Zodiac Killer. 470 00:28:25,160 --> 00:28:27,200 Speaker 3: We're pretty certain we know who he was, and he 471 00:28:27,280 --> 00:28:30,480 Speaker 3: died with bombs in his basement and the Zodiac bomb 472 00:28:30,640 --> 00:28:33,480 Speaker 3: formula disc in his computer that said Zodiac. 473 00:28:34,320 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 2: I'm pretty sure that the case is solved. 474 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:40,400 Speaker 11: The suspect that was focused on and highlighted in the 475 00:28:40,440 --> 00:28:43,680 Speaker 11: film and in Grace Smith's book, and to a certain 476 00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:48,640 Speaker 11: extent even for Tusking Armstrong, Arthur Lee Allen, was what 477 00:28:48,680 --> 00:28:50,480 Speaker 11: they call a good suspect. 478 00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,440 Speaker 10: The suspect's brother and sister in law say that Allan 479 00:28:55,640 --> 00:28:59,000 Speaker 10: often spoke of man as the most dangerous game. 480 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:02,960 Speaker 3: I enjoy oh a good tussle that hey killing just 481 00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:04,440 Speaker 3: for the pleasure of it. 482 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:13,040 Speaker 9: Monster the Zodiac Killer is a fifteen episode podcast produced 483 00:29:13,040 --> 00:29:17,880 Speaker 9: by iHeartRadio, House stuff Works and Tenderfoot TV. Donald Albright 484 00:29:17,920 --> 00:29:20,840 Speaker 9: and I are executive producers on behalf of Tenderfoot TV, 485 00:29:21,280 --> 00:29:26,120 Speaker 9: alongside producers Meredith Steedman, Mason Lindsay, and Christina Dana. Jason 486 00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:28,920 Speaker 9: Hope is executive producer on behalf of hou stuff Works, 487 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:33,120 Speaker 9: along with producers Trevor Young, Miranda Hawkins, ben Keebrick, and 488 00:29:33,240 --> 00:29:38,360 Speaker 9: josh Than Scott. Benjamin provides additional voice talent. Matt Frederick 489 00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:42,240 Speaker 9: is our host. Original music is by Makeup and Vanity Set. 490 00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,280 Speaker 9: If you haven't already, make sure to check out the 491 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:48,440 Speaker 9: first season of Monster called Atlanta Monster, about the Atlanta 492 00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:51,320 Speaker 9: child murders from the late seventies to the early eighties. 493 00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:55,520 Speaker 9: Download the ten episode season right now. Have questions or comments, 494 00:29:55,800 --> 00:29:59,840 Speaker 9: email us at Monster at houstuffworks dot com, or you 495 00:29:59,840 --> 00:30:03,080 Speaker 9: can call us at one eight three, three, two eight 496 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,360 Speaker 9: five six six sixty seven. Thanks for listening.