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Speaker 1: The iconic actor Kelsey Grammar is my guest. We talk

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Speaker 1: about everything from the origins of the Beast to Fraser

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Speaker 1: Crane to the harrowing story of heartache and loss and

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Speaker 1: how he survived Kelsey Grammer, it's on this Arroyo Grande.

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Speaker 2: Come on, hey, everybody, go subscribe.

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Speaker 3: To the show.

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Speaker 1: Now turn those notifications on. I want you to know

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Speaker 1: what's coming. We've got such great content and amazing guests.

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Speaker 1: And if you'd like to support a royal Grande, visit

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Speaker 1: Raymondroyo dot com click donate all tax free donations there.

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Speaker 1: Kelsey Grammar is part of our lives in so many ways,

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Speaker 1: from Cheers to Fraser to The Simpsons. He spent nearly

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Speaker 1: four decades making us laugh. But behind that familiar voice

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Speaker 1: and those iconic characters is a story of unimaginable tragedy

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Speaker 1: and remarkable resilience. What you're about to hear is Kelsey

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Speaker 1: at his most vulnerable, and the origin stories of the

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Speaker 1: Blue Mutant Beast, which he plays again in the Avengers

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Speaker 1: Doomsday movie where Sideshow Bob really came from, and the

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Speaker 1: new faith filled musical he's producing Bernadette. Here is Kelsey Grammar.

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Speaker 1: Unguarded Kelsey, I have wanted to interview you for so long,

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Speaker 1: so I'm so delighted to finally do this. As I

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Speaker 1: look at your career, as I look at your life,

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Speaker 1: this is a life of many returns.

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Speaker 3: You return to things, yes.

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Speaker 1: And you get second and sometimes third chances, which very

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Speaker 1: few people get. I mean, I just read you're doing

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Speaker 1: Beast again in this Avengers.

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Speaker 3: Doomsday movie, which makes me very happy. Did you think

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Speaker 3: that was going to come around?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know what, I always thought, of all the

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Speaker 4: characters I've ever played, I liked Beast the best. Why

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Speaker 4: because of his stature, the kind of man I thought

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Speaker 4: he was. I always thought of him as the Martin

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Speaker 4: Luther King of the Mutants, and he had a nobility,

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Speaker 4: a kind of or the Frederick Douglass of the Mutants. Right,

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Speaker 4: So because he was I know, I'm just this guy

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Speaker 4: from a normal background. But I mean I always, I

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Speaker 4: always gravitated towards some of the giants of that culture.

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Speaker 4: And so, I mean, Muhammad Ali was was my hero

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Speaker 4: when I was a boy, and so I mean, I

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Speaker 4: guess I was an oddball, but uh and Martin Luther

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Speaker 4: King certainly, And so I always really, really admired the

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Speaker 4: work that those men had done, and uh, it's beast

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Speaker 4: is that guy.

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Speaker 1: It's curious that you would channel all of that into

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Speaker 1: this marvel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I just saw him as the most noble of the mutants.

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Speaker 1: Wow, did you get you mentioned that you and Pedro

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Speaker 1: Pascal shared some screen time and watch some time together

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Speaker 1: in this upcoming movie.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. Do politics ever come up? How do you negotiate?

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Speaker 4: Well, you know what, I don't know if Pedro knows

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Speaker 4: my politics, I don't really know his. But we talked

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Speaker 4: briefly about Honestly, we talked about the Me Too movement thing,

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Speaker 4: which was interesting, and he said it was a week.

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Speaker 3: Movement, a week a week.

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Speaker 4: Movement, he said, he said, because he honestly said, you know,

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Speaker 4: at the time, you know, the left is always looking

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Speaker 4: for something to be upset about, and they thought they

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Speaker 4: found something and they realized that they were kind of

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Speaker 4: eating their own and and he basically enumerated that for me,

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Speaker 4: and I thought, well, that's that's kind of interesting and

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Speaker 4: surprised me because I was aware that he was more

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Speaker 4: on the left hand side of things. But I really

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Speaker 4: like him, and so we've got along splendidly.

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Speaker 3: And I mean you know, I wish we had more

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Speaker 3: of you to get along in.

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Speaker 4: TI me too, me too, honestly. Yeah, you know, it's

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Speaker 4: like I realized that, you know, because I'm a conservative.

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Speaker 4: I've been a conservative for a long time in Hollywood,

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Speaker 4: and I've heard a lot of things said about us.

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Speaker 4: I hear a lot of things said about us that

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Speaker 4: are quite remarkable. But something I finally figured out was

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Speaker 4: when I'm called a racist, I know it's not true.

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Speaker 4: And the thing is, so do they hm hmmmm.

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Speaker 1: Well you only figure things out, and you really only

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Speaker 1: understand the other side, if you will, politically when you

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Speaker 1: come together in those moments. And I hate and deplore

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Speaker 1: that we have no place to come together.

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Speaker 4: Wow, I think we still do. It's just it just

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Speaker 4: isn't popular. That isn't you know. It's not It's not

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Speaker 4: the first it's not the go to place. I've lost

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Speaker 4: some friends, you know, through the last few years, but uh,

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Speaker 4: I've gained others. Things are okay.

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Speaker 3: Well.

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Speaker 1: I love that your work has always brought people together, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all of it always.

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Speaker 3: I was stunned to learn you were Alan Kelsey. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: I was doun to learn it too. I mean, Alan

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Speaker 4: Kelsey Grammar. My father's name was Frank Allan Grammar junior. Yeah,

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Speaker 4: his father being Frank Allen Grammer, a senior. My mother said,

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Speaker 4: I'm never calling my son the third, so she said,

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Speaker 4: we'll call him Kelsey. It'll be his middle name. Will

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Speaker 4: honor your name Alan, because they called my dad Alan.

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Speaker 4: It became the tradition in the family, which is why

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Speaker 4: we call all our sons by their middle names.

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Speaker 3: Really, yeah, my wife pulled that number with us.

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Speaker 1: I'm the fifth Raymond, my son is the sixth, but

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Speaker 1: we call them Alexander.

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Speaker 4: Oh really yeah, Oh that's typical. What's funny is my wife?

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Speaker 4: She said, what's wrong with you people? I mean, why

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Speaker 4: do you call yourself by your middle name? I said, well,

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Speaker 4: it's it's interesting, and I explained that story to her,

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Speaker 4: and of course I was always Kelsey. But then she said,

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Speaker 4: oh my god, I just found out like all my

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Speaker 4: grandparents went by their middle name.

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Speaker 3: So you see, we're carrying on the tradition exactly.

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Speaker 1: You studied theater, and I've seen you so many times

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Speaker 1: on stage, which I want to talk about because this

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Speaker 1: new production you're producing kind of ties into all of this.

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Speaker 1: You studied at Juilliard you were. You apprenticed for a

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Speaker 1: time at the Old Globe. Yeah, what did you learn

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Speaker 1: in those two places? Did you learn anything?

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Speaker 3: Oh?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean I learned everything. I mean, what was

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Speaker 4: gonna be? Juilliard was amazing. When I got to Julia,

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Speaker 4: I was eighteen years old. I had been an actor

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Speaker 4: for about a year and a half. I mean, I

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Speaker 4: was one of those kids and just so I went like, well,

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Speaker 4: I was a surfer, and then I did a play

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Speaker 4: actor in high school. And then I thought, well, that's

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Speaker 4: kind of like surfing. I could do that the rest

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Speaker 4: of my life. And I got lucky. I mean, somebody

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Speaker 4: said Julia was the best school in the country, and

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Speaker 4: I said, I'm going to audition for it. I got it,

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Speaker 4: and then they threw me out. So that was, you know,

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Speaker 4: A couple of years later they tossed me and I

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Speaker 4: kind of finished my education at the Old Globe Theater

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Speaker 4: where I mean I wrote music, I painted sets, I

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Speaker 4: did costumes. I learned a knit, I learned all sorts

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Speaker 4: of stuff that happened as a result, learned to do

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Speaker 4: a cross ditch for doing hymns. It was a terrific,

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Speaker 4: comprehensive experience about what it is to put on a show,

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Speaker 4: and I got to do I think I did twelve

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Speaker 4: Shakespeare plays, and I did a couple of Shaw plays.

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Speaker 4: I did music for the Line in Winter and that

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Speaker 4: was that was really fascinating, and and for the Seagull

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Speaker 4: for chekhofs the Seagull. So it was a comprehensive, full,

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Speaker 4: full blown, like graduate school for me.

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Speaker 1: And then you end up in the workshop edition of

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Speaker 1: Sunday in the Park with much of that original Mandy

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Speaker 1: Patinkin burned it.

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Speaker 3: I mean she was there too.

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Speaker 1: What happened in there, Mandy Patinkin ends up being the

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Speaker 1: vehicle that introduces you too.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it's a very interesting thing to the to the Paramount. Basically,

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Speaker 4: Gretchen right Now was the casting director for Paramount in

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Speaker 4: New York at the Gulf Western Building which is now

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Speaker 4: one of the Trump buildings. And she called me through

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Speaker 4: my agent and said, we hear you're funny, but you're

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Speaker 4: a leading man who's funny, Mandy Patinkin told me at lunch.

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Speaker 4: So I said, yeah, I guess. So, so I went

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Speaker 4: in and met with her and I read for a

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Speaker 4: thing called Brothers, which ended up being on HBO for

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Speaker 4: a little while. I didn't get that, but she called

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Speaker 4: me in a couple of weeks later and said, there's

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Speaker 4: this new part on Cheers. Of course I was Cheers.

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Speaker 4: I have no idea. I was just a theater guy,

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Speaker 4: and they gave me sides side the first time I

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Speaker 4: ever saw sides in my life, which is you know,

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Speaker 4: bits of a scene basically.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: So I read through those and I looked at the

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Speaker 4: part and I thought, yeah, I didn't play this guy,

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Speaker 4: so I got it.

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Speaker 1: But it was only supposed to be seven episodes, and

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Speaker 1: it turned into me there for six or seven.

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Speaker 4: I think they got a kick out of you know,

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Speaker 4: how difficult it was for me to come on the show,

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Speaker 4: and the writers just thought, why not keep them around?

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Speaker 3: What happened? What happened in there?

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Speaker 1: I mean obviously yeah, they were everybody could see the

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Speaker 1: crackle when you were a part.

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Speaker 4: Of that on some Yeah, it was fun. It was fun.

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Speaker 4: We had We had a great time at first. I

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Speaker 4: mean the show originally was pitched for Shane and for

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Speaker 4: Ted to kind of be Spencer Tracy and Catherine Hepburn,

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Speaker 4: and I think I think Shelley basically fell in love

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Speaker 4: with that idea, and when they broke us up in

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Speaker 4: the second season. When they broke them up in the

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Speaker 4: second season and brought me in for the third season.

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Speaker 4: Beginning of the third season, she was a little thrown

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Speaker 4: by it, I think, and she know they made promises

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Speaker 4: to her, and she thought, well, I didn't come here

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Speaker 4: to fall in over with somebody else, and you know,

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Speaker 4: so there was a little bit of resistance, and I

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Speaker 4: think they just got such a kick out of it.

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Speaker 3: So you broke it up and ruined it.

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Speaker 4: For all of them, destroyed them beyond it.

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Speaker 1: that's always puzzled me about Frasier Crant. You have this

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Speaker 1: kind of effete, elitist, erudite psychiatrist of all things, who

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Speaker 1: resonates with Middle America. I mean, this character wasn't exactly

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Speaker 1: Archie Bunker Kelsey. What made him click? Why do you

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Speaker 1: think America was so drawn to you?

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Speaker 4: I think I think he was, Well, he's affable, right,

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Speaker 4: he's and he's full of flaws and he acknowledges them

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Speaker 4: and then gets up the next day and and keeps going.

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Speaker 4: And I think that's what people admired about him, and

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Speaker 4: he just he wasn't loved, but he kept looking for love, yeah,

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Speaker 4: you know, and he kept trying and then eventually they

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Speaker 4: got so used and when when it was on his

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Speaker 4: own show, when Frase was on its own show, people

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Speaker 4: there's a there's an old rule in theater, you know,

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Speaker 4: don't let the audience get ahead of you. But there's

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Speaker 4: a a nuanced understanding of that. Having done a character

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Speaker 4: for a long time, they're always ahead of you with

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Speaker 4: that character because they always know something's going to go wrong.

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Speaker 4: So what they decided was entertaining what became the entertainment

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Speaker 4: that was watching how wrong he would.

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Speaker 3: Go, when would he go wrong?

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Speaker 4: And then they'd go like, what's it going to be?

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Speaker 4: And then sure enough, like when James Earl Jones was

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Speaker 4: on the show, I broke the mask that he had

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Speaker 4: done and he was a blind man and they and

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Speaker 4: they were there, you can hear there just going ah goes,

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Speaker 4: that's it.

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Speaker 1: And you were You're one of the only actors, I

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Speaker 1: think it might be the only actor Kelsey who plays

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Speaker 1: the same character on three separate primetime shows, Right Wings, Cheers,

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Speaker 1: and Fraser was just a guest start.

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Speaker 3: I know, but you still it was a crossover.

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Speaker 4: Here it is a distinction of it's a dubious note.

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Speaker 1: Why did the crossover work, because, let's face it, there

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Speaker 1: were other reboots, even with actors you worked with on Cheers,

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Speaker 1: they were tried.

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Speaker 3: It didn't work.

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Speaker 4: Well. We got the greatest cast in the world. We

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Speaker 4: were I surrounded myself, not just me, but I was

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Speaker 4: supportive by a lot of people who said, this person's

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Speaker 4: good for this, this is a good idea for that.

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Speaker 4: They found wonderful people, and we all agreed on who

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Speaker 4: was going to be in the show. And then of

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Speaker 4: course the casting director's assistant came over from Jeff Jeff

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Speaker 4: Greenberg's office and said, oh, if you're looking for a

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Speaker 4: brother for Kelsey, this is the guy. And it was

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Speaker 4: David hye Feers.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 4: So they thought, well, let's let's write a brother. He's perfect, incredible.

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Speaker 1: No, the chemistry, it's always the team. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: remember I interviewed Tim Conway many years ago and said,

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Speaker 1: what was it about the Carol Bernaccio. He said, we

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Speaker 1: loved each other.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, you could tell. Yeah, that was great. That thing

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Speaker 4: with Harvey and him.

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Speaker 3: They were shameless, but it was magical shamelessness.

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Speaker 1: Tell me you, Fraser Crane has been with you through marriages,

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Speaker 1: through triumphs, addictions, comebacks, broken marriages. How did he change you?

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Speaker 1: And how did you change him?

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Speaker 4: Well, what's interesting is Frasier became my canvas. He was

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Speaker 4: like a campus. I got the paint on and I

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Speaker 4: could try anything because I was protected. I mean, he's

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Speaker 4: a nut He's really a nutty and goofy and you know,

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Speaker 4: quite mad and yet grounded in this search for goodness

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Speaker 4: and for love. He is a good guy looking for purpose,

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Speaker 4: and so I think everybody identifies with that, and I

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Speaker 4: think that's probably why they caught onto it. I mean,

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Speaker 4: we did have the unlikely father thing, which was really great,

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Speaker 4: and people would ask years ago, they'd say, well, how

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Speaker 4: did those boys come from that dad? And I said, well, interesting,

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Speaker 4: you should mention that. But their dad was in service.

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Speaker 4: They were in service. They wanted to do the world

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Speaker 4: some good and they were willing to sacrifice almost anything

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Speaker 4: to do it. And I thought he is the perfect

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Speaker 4: father for them.

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Speaker 1: Do you ever feel like Bela Lagosi or Peter Fall

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Speaker 1: trapped in a character that is so beloved.

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Speaker 3: No, you don't.

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Speaker 4: Know, No, No, Fraser is too interesting. I mean, you couldn't

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Speaker 4: if you thought you were going to be trapped. I

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Speaker 4: guess you could. I guess you could think Jackie Gleason

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Speaker 4: was trapped. I mean, you know, I mean, and he

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Speaker 4: did something what you know, all that stuff to the

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Speaker 4: Moon and all that. He had some sort of really

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Speaker 4: signature lines and things, you know, like well, like his

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Speaker 4: wife would say, you know, Ralph, you know what I mean, it.

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Speaker 3: Was one of these days, Yeah, right to the moon,

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they were wonderful handles. But he he broke out.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he did what was it. He did a

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Speaker 4: film called Jigo, but he didn't talk at all, which

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Speaker 4: is fantastic. And then he did that wonderful thing with

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Speaker 4: Lawrence Olivier and pretty much blew Olivier off the screen.

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Speaker 4: And then did the Hustler. And of course you know

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Speaker 4: why they called him, you know why they called him

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Speaker 4: a great one. It was not because he was a

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Speaker 4: great editor, because he was a great, great stick, great

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Speaker 4: pool player. He was as good as that character was.

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Speaker 3: Wow.

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Speaker 1: Okay, I have to ask you about the nineteen nineties.

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Speaker 1: In the nineteen nineties, you have a rough patch. You're

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Speaker 1: being arrested for drug possession, you crash up your car.

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Speaker 3: Even your cast members.

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Speaker 1: Some of whom I've talked to, said, Kelsey Grammar would

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Speaker 1: come in collapsed and the lights would go on and

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Speaker 1: it was rolling time, and you transformed into Frasier. How

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Speaker 1: did you do that with all that happening in your

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Speaker 1: background in your personal life.

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Speaker 4: Well, it's interesting you asked what I learned? In San Diego.

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Speaker 4: I worked with an actor named Eric Christmas who said

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Speaker 4: he was actually descended from William Shakespeare. If you remember

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Speaker 4: the film All of the Steve Martin, Lily Thomlins, the

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Speaker 4: father of the girl that's hustling, the guy that ran

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Speaker 4: the stables is him, is Eric Christmas. But Eric Christmas

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Speaker 4: and I shared a dressing room. We were doing Hamlet.

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Speaker 4: I was playing Layerties. He would walk in about two

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Speaker 4: minutes before he was supposed to go on, looking kind

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Speaker 4: of you know, sandals shorts, and go like this with

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Speaker 4: his eyes. He put a little white on his eyes

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Speaker 4: like this, and two black lines like that because he

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Speaker 4: knew he's going to be killed later as polonious, and

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Speaker 4: he would just close his eyes and looked like his

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Speaker 4: eyes were open. He was a genius. He also taught

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Speaker 4: me great stories about when he'd go to breakfast during

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Speaker 4: World War Two. Rif guys weren't at breakfast the next day,

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Speaker 4: that's how you knew they died on a bombing mission.

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Speaker 4: But it's a great attrition and a very sad thing.

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Speaker 4: But he also just said, this is what we were

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Speaker 4: meant to do, is what we were given to do

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Speaker 4: in our lives. But from Eric, I learned that trick

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Speaker 4: of just like throw it all away, get it done,

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Speaker 4: get on, put on the mask, whatever. So I had that.

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Speaker 4: There is another trick that I learned a long time

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Speaker 4: ago that I've rarely shared you. The first person I

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Speaker 4: shared it with, I was going to actually write it

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Speaker 4: in the next book. I read Ian Flemings on Her

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Speaker 4: Majesty's Secret Service when I was around eight years old.

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Speaker 4: In the very beginning of the book, there's a section

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Speaker 4: where he talks about what a spy does, what a

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Speaker 4: spy needs to be able to do. A spine needs

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Speaker 4: to be able to go to sleep for one minute,

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Speaker 4: for three minutes however long, and have it truly refreshing.

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Speaker 4: And so I always learned that trick.

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Speaker 3: You have your little rest at a moment and hit it.

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Speaker 4: I'm out, and so I thought, I've got to learn

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Speaker 4: how to do that. So these are some of the

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Speaker 4: things I did during my more dissipated days. I was chasing,

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Speaker 4: not necessarily a high, but I didn't want to feel

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Speaker 4: and it helped me in a lot of ways. I

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Speaker 4: wanted to step away from what was still kind of

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Speaker 4: an overwhelming emotion.

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Speaker 1: And I want to get to that because I mean

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Speaker 1: the tragedy in your life, which I did not. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I had no idea. I have to say, as somebody

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Speaker 1: who watched you from the time you were in Cheers

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Speaker 1: and knew you from the theater before that, I never

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Speaker 1: got a glimpse of any of that on the screen.

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Speaker 3: Or in your performances. And even when I watched them.

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Speaker 1: Now you know there are some performers I had friends

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Speaker 1: who were comedians, and now if you watch them again,

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Speaker 1: you can see the darkness. You don't have that somehow

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Speaker 1: Frazier Gray, now, yeah he's not dark. No, he's not

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Speaker 1: a dark character. Where did toss salads and scrambled eggs

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Speaker 1: come from?

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Speaker 4: Just off the top of somebody's head. The producers put

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Speaker 4: the pilot episode out with a scratch track of Jonny

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Speaker 4: Mitchell's my end list told me that I was run

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Speaker 4: out of my head. I described it, and we thought

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Speaker 4: that suited it. And then as we were getting into production,

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Speaker 4: I announced that I had always wanted to sing a

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Speaker 4: theme song for a television show. I said, this is

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Speaker 4: probably the best chap.

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Speaker 3: Mark move Kelsey, I hope those residual chairs.

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Speaker 4: Still it's okay. So they came up with this idea,

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Speaker 4: Well what is it? And some lyricist actually said toss

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Speaker 4: salads something, and I don't know who that was. But

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Speaker 4: we got in the studio and I missed around a

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Speaker 4: little while I was singing a little bit and singing

391
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Speaker 4: it kind of straight, and I thought, now it kind

392
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Speaker 4: of needs to kind of a character, little bluesy kind,

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Speaker 4: this jazzy character. And that's when it came to life.

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Speaker 1: And the toss salad and scrambled eggs are the callers

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Speaker 1: calling doctor Grenfield. Yeah, they're the kind of toss salads

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Speaker 1: and out of control. And what do I want to

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Speaker 1: do with these toss out I want to get back

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Speaker 1: to these tragedies which I have to tell you when

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Speaker 1: I read your book about your sister Karen, which is

400
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Speaker 1: the remembrance of a sister, your father is killed in

401
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Speaker 1: a home invasion where people surround the house and shoot him.

402
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Speaker 3: He's murdered. A few years later, in nineteen seventy five,

403
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Speaker 3: year sister Karen.

404
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Speaker 1: Is at a red lobster waiting for her boyfriend to

405
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Speaker 1: come out, and this pack of thugs come. They kidnap her,

406
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Speaker 1: they rape and murder her. And you blame yourself, you

407
00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: say in that book, Oh, big brothers, do I know

408
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Speaker 1: you weren't in Colorado?

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Speaker 4: So what that's what we do? You know you can't

410
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Speaker 4: help it. And I always looked after her because once

411
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Speaker 4: when Gordon died, our granddad died, the male figure in

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Speaker 4: our home was me you and so I had a

413
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Speaker 4: job to do, and I blew it.

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Speaker 3: Have you forgiven yourself? Well?

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Speaker 4: I have. Writing a book helped me with that fifty

416
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Speaker 4: years later. It's something I spent three years writing it,

417
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Speaker 4: and I wrote every word. I'm very proud of it.

418
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Speaker 4: It was a very emotional experience. It does. It is

419
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Speaker 4: a real indication of the kind of kid I was.

420
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Speaker 4: At the same time, the childhood we had, I ended

421
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Speaker 4: up being extremely grateful for what our grandparents did give

422
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Speaker 4: us the first decade of our lives, which was a

423
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Speaker 4: marvelous life, or we were adored and it was just

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Speaker 4: something else.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's a beautiful commemoration of her, your affection for her,

426
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Speaker 1: and I could feel the Catharsis as you're working your

427
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Speaker 1: way through you. I just recently read it and it

428
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Speaker 1: was very moving.

429
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Speaker 4: Thank you. And let me share something me that's really funny.

430
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Speaker 4: My son, Gabriel. I mentioned him in the book a bit.

431
00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:15,119
Speaker 4: He's a bit of a comic. So he said, this

432
00:22:15,160 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 4: is about a month ago. I said, Dad, I want

433
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Speaker 4: to show you what you look like when you're writing.

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Speaker 4: Thank you, Gabriel. He's a very funny guy.

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Speaker 3: But you know you could feel that. I have to

436
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:32,160
Speaker 3: say you could feel it. It's we're all in motion on.

437
00:22:32,160 --> 00:22:34,600
Speaker 1: The page as you work your way through it. It

438
00:22:34,640 --> 00:22:36,360
Speaker 1: is it's very close to you and to your heart.

439
00:22:36,400 --> 00:22:38,199
Speaker 1: And I know what that feels like when you're writing

440
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:41,240
Speaker 1: in that zone. It's different, it's different.

441
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 3: Why did you want to do that publicly and not

442
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:44,840
Speaker 3: just leave a memoir for the first.

443
00:22:44,640 --> 00:22:47,800
Speaker 4: Because I wanted people to know Karen. I wanted her

444
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 4: to be known, to be remembered, as I say in the.

445
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 3: Book, and you confronted her killer Freddy Glenn.

446
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:57,320
Speaker 4: At one point I just had pearl hearing you.

447
00:22:57,040 --> 00:23:00,439
Speaker 1: You said it, that parole hearing. I forgive you, but

448
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,400
Speaker 1: you don't deserve freedom.

449
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:02,879
Speaker 3: Why not?

450
00:23:05,680 --> 00:23:08,199
Speaker 4: Because he murdered more than one person, and he did

451
00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 4: it knowing what he was doing. There has to be

452
00:23:12,080 --> 00:23:15,720
Speaker 4: There have to be consequences. Accountability has to be something

453
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:17,520
Speaker 4: we still have in this country.

454
00:23:17,600 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 3: Yeah.

455
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:20,399
Speaker 4: I mean, that's probably why I'm conservative in a lot

456
00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:22,959
Speaker 4: of ways. But no, No, the idea that you can

457
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:28,040
Speaker 4: actually dust several people and somehow think you've done it

458
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 4: enough or oh, you know, I've been punished enough.

459
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, No, he's wont He was wanted on several murders

460
00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,919
Speaker 1: before he before he encountered your sister, which is just

461
00:23:37,080 --> 00:23:39,679
Speaker 1: awful because that means people didn't do their job the

462
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:41,480
Speaker 1: first two times exactly.

463
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, And honestly, the cops got lucky. I mean, one

464
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:47,480
Speaker 4: of the guys that turned state's evidence was caught in

465
00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,399
Speaker 4: New Orleans on a different thing, and he said, I

466
00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,040
Speaker 4: know what happened to that girl in Colorado? Until then

467
00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:54,919
Speaker 4: they were there coming.

468
00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:58,560
Speaker 3: Up dry h Do you support the death penalty?

469
00:23:59,320 --> 00:23:59,760
Speaker 4: I don't.

470
00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,160
Speaker 3: You don't even in the case of your sister's killer.

471
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:09,320
Speaker 4: Well, I'm a pro life guy. H I think it's

472
00:24:10,520 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 4: you know, I mean, I can see if I've stood

473
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:15,800
Speaker 4: on a threshold and someone's trying to take my life,

474
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:19,560
Speaker 4: I'd probably do my best to kill them. But that's

475
00:24:19,640 --> 00:24:20,760
Speaker 4: in that moment.

476
00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,119
Speaker 3: Even if it's done cold and clinically by the state.

477
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,520
Speaker 3: You don't support that. I don't know, wow, because of

478
00:24:27,520 --> 00:24:28,760
Speaker 3: your faith, I.

479
00:24:28,640 --> 00:24:34,760
Speaker 4: Think partially, yeah. I just think a life lived having

480
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 4: become a murderer and then have to be accountable for

481
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:41,040
Speaker 4: it for the rest of your life probably a pretty

482
00:24:41,080 --> 00:24:41,480
Speaker 4: good thing.

483
00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:46,320
Speaker 1: After reading Karen and then watching so much of your

484
00:24:46,320 --> 00:24:50,280
Speaker 1: work in the past couple of weeks, I was struck

485
00:24:50,320 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 1: by the tragedies that you carried with you obsessive wives,

486
00:24:55,000 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: breaking glass over your head, beating you quite literally.

487
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:00,000
Speaker 4: I had some fun.

488
00:25:00,359 --> 00:25:03,360
Speaker 3: How do you find humor? Though? On the other side of.

489
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,760
Speaker 4: That, well, you know, if you don't have If you

490
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,960
Speaker 4: don't have humor, you're just gonna drift into dismay. I mean,

491
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 4: I'm an optimist. I was born an optimist. I mean,

492
00:25:14,600 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 4: I do think there are you know, characteristics were born with,

493
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:19,120
Speaker 4: and that was one of mine. I mean, I said,

494
00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:20,560
Speaker 4: we're gonna get through this, you know, one foot in

495
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:23,199
Speaker 4: front of the other. We're going to soldier on. Some

496
00:25:23,240 --> 00:25:26,000
Speaker 4: people don't soldier on. I get that, and I feel

497
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:28,800
Speaker 4: sorry for them actually, because I mean I do have faith,

498
00:25:28,840 --> 00:25:31,639
Speaker 4: and I do it's been challenged and and i'm you know,

499
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:33,880
Speaker 4: I'm shouted at God in my time and said I've

500
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 4: had it with you, I'm done. And then of course

501
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 4: he wasn't done with me.

502
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:40,840
Speaker 1: So okay, how what world did faith have in bringing

503
00:25:40,880 --> 00:25:42,520
Speaker 1: you to where you are now?

504
00:25:42,600 --> 00:25:43,159
Speaker 4: Yeah?

505
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 3: And when was he furthest from you?

506
00:25:44,680 --> 00:25:47,400
Speaker 4: Do you think? Well, right after Karen died. Yeah, Yeah,

507
00:25:47,680 --> 00:25:50,760
Speaker 4: those years when I would sort of angle, want the

508
00:25:50,800 --> 00:25:53,119
Speaker 4: streets and you know, look for a fight, you know,

509
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:57,400
Speaker 4: I mean I was. I was upset that thankfully kind

510
00:25:57,400 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 4: of yielded to a profession. I mean I started actually work,

511
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,600
Speaker 4: which which helped. I mean, I was paying for my

512
00:26:04,119 --> 00:26:06,720
Speaker 4: life by waiting tables and doing that sort of stuff

513
00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:10,080
Speaker 4: and the carpentry, little carpentry and working in an office space,

514
00:26:10,160 --> 00:26:14,359
Speaker 4: that kind of thing. And somebody finally saw me and said, say,

515
00:26:15,119 --> 00:26:18,359
Speaker 4: you're an actor, are you as well? Yeah? I don't

516
00:26:18,359 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 4: know what was going on exactly, but I was standing

517
00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,440
Speaker 4: on a ladder and wearing some shorts and somebody looked

518
00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:27,120
Speaker 4: up and said, would you like to audition? Okay, yeah,

519
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:27,760
Speaker 4: I would.

520
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,000
Speaker 3: Actually so is that how it happened?

521
00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 4: Whatever the blessing is, it does, it does.

522
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:38,800
Speaker 1: And there was a scene I read somewhere where you

523
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:42,640
Speaker 1: were in a baseball field and you asked God, where

524
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:43,760
Speaker 1: where was he?

525
00:26:44,000 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 4: Right right? This was this was after I did Jesus Revolution. Oh,

526
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 4: Greg Glory invited me to come to what he calls

527
00:26:55,640 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 4: the Harvest thing that they do, which is a big

528
00:26:58,359 --> 00:27:04,840
Speaker 4: just in the Angel Stadium. It's kind of ironic, but yeah,

529
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 4: And I thought to myself it was Faith, my daughter Faith,

530
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,440
Speaker 4: who said let's go down, you know, when he did

531
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:12,040
Speaker 4: the call to come down and declare.

532
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,120
Speaker 3: You know, I like you in my life, the call

533
00:27:14,200 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 3: of the ultra cale and so and I've.

534
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:19,560
Speaker 4: You know, i've and i've I've called it my limping faith.

535
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 4: I always had a limping faith. I always did. It

536
00:27:21,560 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 4: was still there. It was always there or whatever it

537
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 4: was it I first heard in my voice when it

538
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:27,600
Speaker 4: was I was a child whatever, I was going to

539
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,919
Speaker 4: Sunday school. Uh, And I just said, so where were you?

540
00:27:32,560 --> 00:27:39,240
Speaker 4: What was going on? And after a few minutes I

541
00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:42,119
Speaker 4: just hurt a little, you know, I was right there,

542
00:27:43,840 --> 00:27:46,720
Speaker 4: and that is what I didn't understand. And then it

543
00:27:46,760 --> 00:27:48,760
Speaker 4: happened a couple more times as I was writing the book,

544
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:53,040
Speaker 4: and when I returned from Karen's college, when I felt

545
00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:57,280
Speaker 4: Karen h on this. I walked up this banister, I

546
00:27:57,280 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 4: said that. They said, this is the hall where she

547
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,679
Speaker 4: used to live, and I thought, I sauldn't feel like

548
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:03,320
Speaker 4: she's quite here. And then we walked up some backstairs

549
00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 4: there was an old, old manister. I put my hand

550
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,479
Speaker 4: on the banister, and I'd heard from Karen. Basically I

551
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:15,919
Speaker 4: was here. M that was. That was really nice. But

552
00:28:15,960 --> 00:28:19,240
Speaker 4: then on the return trip from that was when I

553
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:23,119
Speaker 4: really had a sort of the epiphany with a like

554
00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:27,880
Speaker 4: a conversation sitting on a plane, and the voice basically said,

555
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,840
Speaker 4: don't you think it's time for you to give it up?

556
00:28:32,560 --> 00:28:34,240
Speaker 3: Karen's voice of God's.

557
00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:38,760
Speaker 4: God, Jesus, Jesus. And I said, no, but it's okay.

558
00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:40,959
Speaker 4: I've carried it this long. I can still handle it.

559
00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:44,640
Speaker 4: It's it's mine And I said, no, it's mine. That's

560
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 4: why I came beautiful.

561
00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:50,640
Speaker 3: So he had you. I mean, you feel that in

562
00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 3: the book. When you're reading the book, you feel it's

563
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,480
Speaker 3: a it's a redemptive It's a painful ready, but it's

564
00:28:57,480 --> 00:28:58,240
Speaker 3: a redemptive one.

565
00:28:58,320 --> 00:28:59,960
Speaker 4: And I want I want you know people who have

566
00:29:00,040 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 4: suffered a similar consequence, and there are many, sadly, I

567
00:29:04,720 --> 00:29:07,480
Speaker 4: wanted them to know that I had a credential, there

568
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,680
Speaker 4: was genuine that whatever pain they have felt, mine was

569
00:29:11,720 --> 00:29:15,040
Speaker 4: the same, and that we can share that in the misery,

570
00:29:15,080 --> 00:29:17,160
Speaker 4: in the misery of it, the things we wouldn't want

571
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:19,480
Speaker 4: to share, but we get to share the fact that

572
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 4: we had a joyous time with them in whatever short

573
00:29:22,880 --> 00:29:26,400
Speaker 4: amount it was or even long. If you've lost somebody

574
00:29:26,480 --> 00:29:29,000
Speaker 4: love like that and you love them with your whole heart,

575
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:33,600
Speaker 4: to lose them is never an easy thing, and to

576
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:37,560
Speaker 4: cherish them and remember them.

577
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:39,800
Speaker 1: And that was not just waiting for you. Yeah, and

578
00:29:39,840 --> 00:29:42,320
Speaker 1: he will take that pain from you. Oh, hold it

579
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:43,320
Speaker 1: with you right.

580
00:29:43,400 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 4: Well, that that was really it. Yeah, sort of abide

581
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 4: with me, Yeah, yeah.

582
00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:49,000
Speaker 3: Yeah, abide with me. Yeah.

583
00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 1: You produced, just to bring all of this full circle,

584
00:29:53,120 --> 00:29:54,880
Speaker 1: you produced the color purple.

585
00:29:54,680 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 3: One, Tony.

586
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:58,480
Speaker 1: I know you're one of the one of the many

587
00:29:58,600 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: esteemed people who produce that purple, but you do have

588
00:30:01,840 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: credentials in the producing space. You recently saw this musical Bernadette.

589
00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 3: What did you think when you saw?

590
00:30:12,160 --> 00:30:15,400
Speaker 4: It's an extraordinary thing. It's like a visit with Saint Bernadette.

591
00:30:15,520 --> 00:30:19,080
Speaker 4: I mean, for whatever reason they found this magnificent young woman,

592
00:30:19,640 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 4: but so did Saint Bernadette. Like they are walking along

593
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 4: together and it's remarkable and you feel like you're looking

594
00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,240
Speaker 4: right into her eyes from you know, the back of

595
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:34,600
Speaker 4: the house. I mean, it's it's something.

596
00:30:35,520 --> 00:30:38,280
Speaker 3: So did you feel, Karen when you watched it the

597
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:41,640
Speaker 3: first time? Because that's what occurred to me.

598
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:47,120
Speaker 4: Is interesting, that's an interesting thought. Not necessarily, I mean

599
00:30:48,840 --> 00:30:53,600
Speaker 4: this was a specific unto itself. This this, this Saint

600
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 4: is She's remarkable and still remarkable. I mean she's on

601
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,120
Speaker 4: whatever I guess, I don't know what they call all

602
00:31:00,160 --> 00:31:03,880
Speaker 4: that when the corpse doesn't rot, incorruptible and correct, she's

603
00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:04,560
Speaker 4: that's still in.

604
00:31:05,880 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, have you seen the body?

605
00:31:08,240 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 4: I haven't, but I've seen pictures. You gotta be kidding.

606
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:14,360
Speaker 4: I mean, so there is Yeah, I mean the lures

607
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,320
Speaker 4: of Saint Lennon's tomb. This is the real deal.

608
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: This isn't the This isn't the wax works. Did you

609
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:20,920
Speaker 1: have you been to lords?

610
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,720
Speaker 4: I have not. Wow, I've only been in France twice

611
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,920
Speaker 4: and you know for you know film stuff.

612
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,120
Speaker 3: Well now you being a producers to go to lords.

613
00:31:30,120 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: But for those who don't know, of those who might

614
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,960
Speaker 1: be unaware, this is a fourteen year old girl receives

615
00:31:35,040 --> 00:31:41,400
Speaker 1: this message from this lady, the Virgin Mary, and she's

616
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:44,680
Speaker 1: tortured over this truth that she has to witness to.

617
00:31:45,840 --> 00:31:48,760
Speaker 1: How and why did that resonate with you, Kelsey at

618
00:31:48,760 --> 00:31:49,360
Speaker 1: this point.

619
00:31:49,160 --> 00:31:51,800
Speaker 4: In your life? What resonated with me for this particular

620
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:56,320
Speaker 4: show is this young woman's performance is extraordinary. But also

621
00:31:56,400 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 4: the the resolve and the innocence and the simple beauty

622
00:32:00,640 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 4: of just claiming who you are and stating clearly I'm

623
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:09,719
Speaker 4: not lying. Yeah, you can tell me I am, but

624
00:32:10,040 --> 00:32:11,880
Speaker 4: I'm not. I'm not going to change my story based

625
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:15,840
Speaker 4: upon whatever you throw at me. I'm steadfast, as I've

626
00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,840
Speaker 4: been reminded by some of my co producers of a

627
00:32:18,880 --> 00:32:22,880
Speaker 4: word I said about her some time ago, steadfast in

628
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,080
Speaker 4: her belief, in her faith, and in herself, in her

629
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:30,680
Speaker 4: own stature. This barely young woman stands in the face

630
00:32:30,720 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 4: of all kinds of things and doesn't even resist, really

631
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,200
Speaker 4: just says this is the truth. Yeah, that's remarkable.

632
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:39,560
Speaker 3: What a season for you.

633
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:45,000
Speaker 1: I mean, you brought back your most beloved TV character

634
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,240
Speaker 1: recently with Frasier on Paramount.

635
00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 3: I hope you're going to find another home for that.

636
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 4: Well, I hope so too. You know what, It's funny,

637
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,800
Speaker 4: Well we have looked, we have a couple of ideas.

638
00:32:53,000 --> 00:32:55,480
Speaker 4: There's all kinds of fun stuff going on behind the

639
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:57,160
Speaker 4: scenes in terms of what we might end up taking.

640
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:59,400
Speaker 3: Okay, come on, but no, I can't a little bit.

641
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 4: They're going to get mad at me, so I can't

642
00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:01,800
Speaker 4: do it.

643
00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 3: Come I whisper it.

644
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,960
Speaker 4: But the relationship with with Alan, with Nicholas Lindhurst, of course,

645
00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 4: that that's a lift directly from our We met doing

646
00:33:12,360 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 4: Man of Flamonta together, that's right, and became friends basically

647
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,000
Speaker 4: fell in love and and our wives fell in love

648
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 4: with each other. And it's just it was just remarkable,

649
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 4: like it was all meant to happen. And so you know,

650
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 4: six years later, five years later, whatever it was, I've said,

651
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:31,360
Speaker 4: you know, I want you to do this. It just

652
00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 4: made my day. I mean, okay, and it's wonderful. And

653
00:33:35,240 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 4: it was my wife who actually said Fraser never had

654
00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:37,720
Speaker 4: a friend.

655
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:39,600
Speaker 3: That's exactly right.

656
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:42,720
Speaker 4: She had not he had Niles, but it was different. Yeah,

657
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:45,400
Speaker 4: you know, that's that's different. And we even we've watched

658
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,040
Speaker 4: some of the reruns lately, but my wife and I

659
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,800
Speaker 4: and there is an episode when they say this is

660
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:52,719
Speaker 4: you know, we're getting tired of being seen together. I mean,

661
00:33:53,560 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 4: you know those two weird ones. Oh you were so

662
00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:56,200
Speaker 4: that other one.

663
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 1: It's like it was the second season of the new boot.

664
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:01,480
Speaker 1: It was better than the first season.

665
00:34:01,480 --> 00:34:01,959
Speaker 4: I think so too.

666
00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:02,920
Speaker 3: It was so great.

667
00:34:03,400 --> 00:34:05,800
Speaker 4: Well it was really it's twenty shows. Yeah, it was

668
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:09,200
Speaker 4: really one season. Yeah, yeah, that's right. We just got started.

669
00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:10,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, you know, so, well it needs to go.

670
00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:12,359
Speaker 4: Maybe somebody with some.

671
00:34:12,640 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 3: And then you've recently become a father.

672
00:34:14,760 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: Yes, now, your first child was born in nineteen eighty three,

673
00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:21,839
Speaker 1: if I'm getting this right, my daughter, Spencers and Christopher

674
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: was just born this year.

675
00:34:24,080 --> 00:34:26,800
Speaker 3: Now, if there ever was a redo, aren't you tired?

676
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:31,839
Speaker 4: No? I find these lives in my life absolutely invigorating

677
00:34:32,360 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 4: and renewing. They ren knew me, they really do. I

678
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,400
Speaker 4: love these new people, these people coming into the world

679
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:41,400
Speaker 4: to be their father, to be to father them, to

680
00:34:41,440 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 4: be part of their life. Watson grow up. They teach

681
00:34:44,040 --> 00:34:44,480
Speaker 4: me so much.

682
00:34:44,600 --> 00:34:45,680
Speaker 3: How is this time different.

683
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,520
Speaker 4: Well, they're all different, they're all there, they are their

684
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,160
Speaker 4: own people. Yeah, I mean they're remarkable. I mean, how

685
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 4: are you having Oh well, I'm more available, you know.

686
00:34:57,080 --> 00:34:59,040
Speaker 4: I mean, I'm actually more in the room, I guess.

687
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 4: And I'm still out, you know, trying to do I'm

688
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,960
Speaker 4: doing this. For instance, I'm in Chicago today, I was

689
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:06,279
Speaker 4: in New York yesterday. There's a lot of stuff going on.

690
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:08,120
Speaker 4: I'm working on this whole two fifty for two to

691
00:35:08,120 --> 00:35:11,200
Speaker 4: fifty thing that we're doing for the Declaration of Independence,

692
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:13,840
Speaker 4: which I'm really excited about.

693
00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 3: But what is that.

694
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:18,040
Speaker 4: Well, it's an app and it's gonna be a book

695
00:35:18,080 --> 00:35:20,400
Speaker 4: and I'm doing videos for it. It's two hundred and

696
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:24,479
Speaker 4: fifty days for two hundred and fifty years. Oh wow,

697
00:35:24,680 --> 00:35:27,839
Speaker 4: so you celebrate each year. There's five days per week

698
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:31,560
Speaker 4: we celebrate. It's fifty states. It's two hundred and fifty there,

699
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 4: and each state gets a week. It's a really really interesting,

700
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 4: thought out book, a thought out app. People are going

701
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 4: to participate, it's educational, it's free. We're really excited about it,

702
00:35:42,680 --> 00:35:46,319
Speaker 4: and I think it could really My hope for it

703
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 4: is that it can boost our sense of Americanism. You

704
00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:52,640
Speaker 4: know of loving each other again, like maybe there is

705
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,120
Speaker 4: a room for all of us to go. Hey, this

706
00:35:55,200 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 4: is a pretty special place. Let's work on that.

707
00:35:57,840 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 3: Let's belong.

708
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:02,800
Speaker 4: Yeah, let's do that together. And yeah, drop some of

709
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:03,640
Speaker 4: the charades.

710
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:06,560
Speaker 1: So what have you learned from fatherhood the second or

711
00:36:06,640 --> 00:36:07,480
Speaker 1: third time around?

712
00:36:07,480 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 3: Well?

713
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,560
Speaker 4: I just learned. You know. There's this great saying that

714
00:36:11,640 --> 00:36:13,960
Speaker 4: the warriors have, you know, stand in the gap. M

715
00:36:15,239 --> 00:36:17,839
Speaker 4: you know that's my job, stand in the gap. Keep

716
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,319
Speaker 4: me safe. Yep, keep me safe. There's an onslaught, there

717
00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:25,120
Speaker 4: is something coming, and I'm Dad, and so Dad's supposed

718
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 4: to walk one way and the kids are supposed to

719
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,160
Speaker 4: follow it for a while, you know, And but those

720
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:34,239
Speaker 4: footsteps have to be firm and focused on something good.

721
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,440
Speaker 4: And so so I'm saying, you know, follow me.

722
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:41,279
Speaker 1: I love that from the sacred to the profane. I

723
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:43,360
Speaker 1: have to ask you because my children won't let me

724
00:36:43,480 --> 00:36:44,240
Speaker 1: leave if I don't.

725
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:45,839
Speaker 3: Side show Bob.

726
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:49,360
Speaker 1: How did side show Bob from the Simpsons come to you? A?

727
00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,239
Speaker 1: First of all, where did that come from? And tell

728
00:36:52,280 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: me how an actor that you worked with informed your playing?

729
00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:57,960
Speaker 4: Yeah? Okay, so you know about it? Okay, So yeah,

730
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:02,240
Speaker 4: Ellis rap Ellis rap a. Oh, it's just the greatest story.

731
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 4: I'll put this in the new book. I will Ellis Ellis,

732
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 4: Uh wanted his apartment done. He lived in one of

733
00:37:10,120 --> 00:37:12,239
Speaker 4: those one of the apartment buildings right across from Lincoln Center,

734
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 4: one Lincoln whatever applause or whatever. So he was on, Yeah,

735
00:37:16,560 --> 00:37:20,040
Speaker 4: there was those buildings, and uh, he wanted some penny done.

736
00:37:20,040 --> 00:37:22,640
Speaker 4: So I say, okay, cool, I'll do that. Yeah. And uh,

737
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:25,879
Speaker 4: but he come home after going to work and I'd

738
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:28,200
Speaker 4: be there, you know, finishing up with the job whatever,

739
00:37:28,239 --> 00:37:30,719
Speaker 4: and he'd say, oh, Casey, have a drink with me.

740
00:37:31,320 --> 00:37:36,480
Speaker 4: So it's a sure sure Elie Martini. You know, this

741
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:39,839
Speaker 4: is the way the conversation would go. And he would

742
00:37:39,880 --> 00:37:41,640
Speaker 4: regale me with the tales of what he'd done in

743
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:44,120
Speaker 4: the theater. And he was a magnificent theatrical actory. It's

744
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,560
Speaker 4: a fantastic performance. He'd been married to Rosemary Harris, I mean,

745
00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,200
Speaker 4: and he was gay, so I mean, you know, I

746
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:52,200
Speaker 4: guess it was part of that whole world where they

747
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:54,920
Speaker 4: thought we're gonna just do this and make children and

748
00:37:54,960 --> 00:37:56,920
Speaker 4: do all sorts of things. We'll do every whatever, you know,

749
00:37:58,080 --> 00:38:01,240
Speaker 4: and that didn't work out so well. Rosemary finally decided

750
00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,839
Speaker 4: she wanted to go another way. So it was post

751
00:38:05,280 --> 00:38:08,640
Speaker 4: uh the divorce, and uh there was an invitation to

752
00:38:08,880 --> 00:38:15,640
Speaker 4: the inauguration, the it was fraid the coronation. I was gone, Wow,

753
00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:20,200
Speaker 4: this guy has been in some big, big circus. But

754
00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:22,080
Speaker 4: he would say, he said to me, so they've been

755
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,200
Speaker 4: divorced a couple of years and Rosemarie had a child.

756
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:29,400
Speaker 4: And this is what Ellis would say about it. Oh, Kilsey,

757
00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:38,400
Speaker 4: that baby should have been mine. Well, you know clearly

758
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 4: that wasn't the way the story was going to work.

759
00:38:40,360 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 4: But I thought then, I thought, I'm stealing this. I'm

760
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 4: gonna use this. One day and Sam Simon called me.

761
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 4: I was on the set of Cheers at the time.

762
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,440
Speaker 4: I said, somebody, Sam Simon's on the phone for you.

763
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 4: I said, oh, Sam all great because he used to

764
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:58,799
Speaker 4: work for Cheers and on staff and we were great

765
00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 4: pals and I really loved him. And he said, hey,

766
00:39:01,480 --> 00:39:03,440
Speaker 4: are you still singing? And he knew I sang always

767
00:39:03,440 --> 00:39:06,320
Speaker 4: walked into I'd always walk into chairs going oh the

768
00:39:06,440 --> 00:39:08,840
Speaker 4: good life. And so he said, could you do like

769
00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,520
Speaker 4: a cold Porter song? I said, of course I can.

770
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,560
Speaker 4: And so he said, do you know this song to

771
00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:15,600
Speaker 4: say that they sign over the copies. Every time we

772
00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:20,040
Speaker 4: say goodbye, I cry every time. So I said, yeah,

773
00:39:20,040 --> 00:39:23,279
Speaker 4: I can do that, and I went and read the

774
00:39:23,320 --> 00:39:26,120
Speaker 4: show and we recorded it, and then we went and

775
00:39:26,120 --> 00:39:29,400
Speaker 4: did another recording of the song elsewhere at a different studio.

776
00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:32,479
Speaker 4: But as I started to do the recording, I thought

777
00:39:32,480 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 4: to myself, there he is Alice. This is Alice. This

778
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 4: is Alice, and so you know all this stuff. Oh

779
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:46,400
Speaker 4: Bot you know Die bought it.

780
00:39:46,560 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: Just it just became we wanted Primetime Emmy for this

781
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: provide did it?

782
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:55,040
Speaker 3: And I mean it's now iconic. Okay, I have.

783
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,920
Speaker 1: To get to a list of questions. This is my

784
00:39:57,160 --> 00:39:59,680
Speaker 1: Royal Grande questionnaire. These are just rapid fire.

785
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,080
Speaker 4: Well, I suck at rapid fire, though, because I always

786
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:03,240
Speaker 4: think you start thinking no, no.

787
00:40:03,000 --> 00:40:04,680
Speaker 3: No, no no, you can't suck at this.

788
00:40:04,760 --> 00:40:07,319
Speaker 1: I have There's no way you can suck at this,

789
00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 1: and you don't need one word responses. Who's the person

790
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,239
Speaker 1: you most admire.

791
00:40:11,080 --> 00:40:15,080
Speaker 4: My grandfather Gordon? Why uh? He was an honest man

792
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:17,760
Speaker 4: in a difficult time. He served in World War Two.

793
00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,440
Speaker 3: Who's the person you most despise. I don't despise anybody,

794
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:24,400
Speaker 3: nobody at all, not even.

795
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 4: It's not worth it because it destroys.

796
00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,600
Speaker 3: Me, uh, destroys us all.

797
00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:31,920
Speaker 4: Yeah, Hatred destroys. Hatred is the road that paves the

798
00:40:31,920 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 4: way to one's own destruction. And if you want to

799
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:36,360
Speaker 4: do that, that's fine. But sure enough, you're going to

800
00:40:36,440 --> 00:40:38,000
Speaker 4: run into it somewhere. It's going to feel good for

801
00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,600
Speaker 4: a while. It's going to be you know, oh yeah,

802
00:40:40,640 --> 00:40:42,759
Speaker 4: this is feeling pretty good. Yeah, we got him, and

803
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:44,960
Speaker 4: then you go, oh, hell, I got myself.

804
00:40:45,280 --> 00:40:46,400
Speaker 3: Die bought die.

805
00:40:47,320 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: Okay, what do you know, Kelsey Grammar that no one

806
00:40:51,200 --> 00:40:52,279
Speaker 1: else knows?

807
00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:59,719
Speaker 4: Gee? I think everybody knows everything. I know, if they look,

808
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:03,480
Speaker 4: if they listen hard enough, everything. Yeah.

809
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:06,080
Speaker 3: What do you know that people miss?

810
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,960
Speaker 4: The absolute, the unbearable likeness of being? I mean, that's

811
00:41:13,000 --> 00:41:14,560
Speaker 4: I mean, that's a great book title, but it is

812
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:15,080
Speaker 4: how I feel.

813
00:41:15,960 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 3: What's your favorite book and the last book you read?

814
00:41:19,239 --> 00:41:20,799
Speaker 4: The last book I read was I think it was

815
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 4: called Kabanche Moon or Summer Summer of the Commanche Moon

816
00:41:25,000 --> 00:41:29,960
Speaker 4: history book about Quanta Parker and h and his relationship

817
00:41:29,960 --> 00:41:31,680
Speaker 4: with Teddy Roosevelt came into it as well, But which

818
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,600
Speaker 4: is fascinating. You know, his the last of the commanche

819
00:41:34,640 --> 00:41:37,920
Speaker 4: chiefs really, and they were loosely knit so that he

820
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:42,120
Speaker 4: wasn't really a chief. He was like the representative of

821
00:41:42,160 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 4: that particular nation, kind of wandering tribe a bit, but wonderful,

822
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 4: wonderful book, wonderful insights about that part of our history.

823
00:41:50,680 --> 00:41:53,040
Speaker 4: And I'm connected to some of that because you know

824
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:56,960
Speaker 4: my family great migration went west. There's tales about that.

825
00:41:57,239 --> 00:41:59,760
Speaker 3: Ah. What do you fear most?

826
00:42:00,960 --> 00:42:06,200
Speaker 4: Purposelessness? You know, being not having a reason to be here.

827
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,400
Speaker 4: I like I like being. I like doing. I'm a

828
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:13,319
Speaker 4: I would like to work. I work hard, and it's

829
00:42:13,320 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 4: at any number of things, but I mean, I just

830
00:42:16,600 --> 00:42:17,480
Speaker 4: I like being busy.

831
00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:19,760
Speaker 1: One of the things I thought of as we were talking.

832
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,880
Speaker 1: I've seen you in Sweeney Todd. I've seen you in

833
00:42:23,040 --> 00:42:27,279
Speaker 1: Finding Neverland. You're delightful as Captain Hook, and that was

834
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:31,600
Speaker 1: in the alternative character you were in Mane la Mantra.

835
00:42:32,560 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: Is there anything theatrically that you still want to do?

836
00:42:35,160 --> 00:42:37,240
Speaker 4: Sure, there's a couple of Shakespeare. I want to do Champions,

837
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,719
Speaker 4: and I want to do lear when it's appropriate. I mean,

838
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,800
Speaker 4: I mean I chronologically, I'm a certain age at this

839
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 4: point where most people think what's what's he going to

840
00:42:45,640 --> 00:42:48,879
Speaker 4: do now? But honestly, I feel like I'm eighteen and

841
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:53,480
Speaker 4: I have energy that's it's more than when I was forty.

842
00:42:53,520 --> 00:42:56,600
Speaker 4: So it's a it's a pretty interesting thing that's going

843
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 4: on with me, and I'm just driven and I really

844
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:01,200
Speaker 4: like it, and I'm I'm gonna play different roles. I'm

845
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:02,920
Speaker 4: not gonna play the same role over and over unless

846
00:43:02,920 --> 00:43:05,759
Speaker 4: it's frasier because he's different every day.

847
00:43:05,640 --> 00:43:07,680
Speaker 3: All the time. What's your greatest regret?

848
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,680
Speaker 4: That's interesting, That too passes pretty easily for me, And

849
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 4: just because it's not it's not something I really hang

850
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:20,440
Speaker 4: on to. I don't have any specific real regrets. I

851
00:43:20,800 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 4: don't I don't traffic within me very well. There have

852
00:43:24,239 --> 00:43:25,799
Speaker 4: been a couple of a couple of careers that I've thought,

853
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,239
Speaker 4: you know, oh gosh, I wish I'd maybe done that role,

854
00:43:28,600 --> 00:43:31,640
Speaker 4: or I wish I'd gotten that you know that's happened.

855
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:39,120
Speaker 4: But there's not many. Ah, greatest regret? Yeah, you know,

856
00:43:39,320 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 4: I really don't.

857
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 3: Okay, I won't force you on that. I'm not.

858
00:43:42,640 --> 00:43:44,239
Speaker 4: I haven't known as much music as I wanted to.

859
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:50,360
Speaker 3: Ah, Well, there's still time. What's the best advice you

860
00:43:50,440 --> 00:43:51,160
Speaker 3: ever received?

861
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:59,520
Speaker 4: The best advice I ever received was in acting, Uh,

862
00:44:01,840 --> 00:44:04,680
Speaker 4: the problem that your character is having, it's probably the

863
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,359
Speaker 4: same one you're having, which I thought that was pretty

864
00:44:07,360 --> 00:44:08,840
Speaker 4: interesting because there were times I think, what am I

865
00:44:08,880 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 4: going to do about this character? What a well you're

866
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 4: having that problem, he's probably having it. I thought the

867
00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:18,440
Speaker 4: same things in terms of what I think is the

868
00:44:18,440 --> 00:44:22,880
Speaker 4: best advice I've ever given myself. Don't lie. Don't lie.

869
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,279
Speaker 4: It's a hard one. That's really hard. Well, because you

870
00:44:26,320 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 4: know you can be diplomatic, you can, you know you

871
00:44:30,280 --> 00:44:32,600
Speaker 4: can shy away from coming down hard on the truth.

872
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:35,480
Speaker 4: You know you can always nuance it. But don't out

873
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:39,920
Speaker 4: don't because you'll never remember what you told them before

874
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:46,200
Speaker 4: exactly if it comes up again, somebody is going to say, no,

875
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:47,279
Speaker 4: you said.

876
00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:50,200
Speaker 3: I remember when you said, here's the video.

877
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:51,200
Speaker 4: I'm not doing that.

878
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:53,239
Speaker 3: What happens when this is over?

879
00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:57,920
Speaker 4: Kelsey, this thing, this place is time.

880
00:44:58,960 --> 00:45:01,920
Speaker 3: I let you interpret it as you will.

881
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:04,120
Speaker 4: Well, I think I'm going to go off and sail.

882
00:45:07,239 --> 00:45:09,080
Speaker 3: Where what's the destination?

883
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:14,640
Speaker 4: Heaven? And it's probably on board the water Angel, my

884
00:45:14,840 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 4: single handed sloop.

885
00:45:16,200 --> 00:45:19,279
Speaker 1: I love that, Kelsey Grammer, what a joy, what an honor.

886
00:45:19,360 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thanks Okay, here's the hall. Nothing hits like

887
00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:25,920
Speaker 1: those origin stories. Who knew that the beast in the

888
00:45:25,920 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 1: Marvel universe was Kelsey Grammer's favorite. I would have lost

889
00:45:29,600 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 1: that game and the backstory of Sideshow Bob. That's how

890
00:45:33,760 --> 00:45:36,680
Speaker 1: you win an Emmy, Folks copy the people around you.

891
00:45:37,239 --> 00:45:39,319
Speaker 1: But the line that jumped out at me, aside from

892
00:45:39,400 --> 00:45:43,160
Speaker 1: Kelsey's grace when it came to his sister's murder, is

893
00:45:43,320 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: probably the thing that informed it, which he mentioned near

894
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:47,720
Speaker 1: the end of the interview.

895
00:45:48,160 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 3: Hatred destroys.

896
00:45:50,239 --> 00:45:52,800
Speaker 1: Hatred is the road that paves the way to one's

897
00:45:52,840 --> 00:45:53,719
Speaker 1: own destruction.

898
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,680
Speaker 3: Boy, that was a great line. I won't forget it.

899
00:45:57,320 --> 00:46:00,880
Speaker 1: Bernadette the musical is playing now in Chicago. It tours

900
00:46:00,920 --> 00:46:05,279
Speaker 1: America soon. Visit Bernadette Musical dot com for tickets in

901
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:05,960
Speaker 1: your area.

902
00:46:06,280 --> 00:46:08,319
Speaker 3: I hope you'll come back to Arroyo Grande soon.

903
00:46:08,480 --> 00:46:11,279
Speaker 1: Why settle for a dry, constricted life when if you

904
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:13,319
Speaker 1: fill it with the good, beautiful and true, it can

905
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:14,359
Speaker 1: flow into a.

906
00:46:14,320 --> 00:46:17,399
Speaker 3: Broad, thriving Arroyo Grande. I'm Raymond Arroyo.

907
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 1: Make sure you subscribe like this episode and thank you

908
00:46:21,080 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 1: for diving in.

909
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:22,720
Speaker 3: We'll see you next time.

910
00:46:23,640 --> 00:46:26,880
Speaker 1: Arroyo Grande is produced in partnership with iHeart Podcasts and

911
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:31,080
Speaker 1: DP Studios. It's available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever

912
00:46:31,120 --> 00:46:44,400
Speaker 1: you get your podcasts.