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Speaker 1: Welcome everyone to another episode of Wide Open with Ashlyn Harris.

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Speaker 1: I am so happy to introduce our guests today, Billy

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Speaker 1: Jean King.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to the show.

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Speaker 3: Billy, thank you. It's great to be here.

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Speaker 2: I said before we started.

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Speaker 1: This is probably one of the greatest moments of my life.

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Speaker 1: It is such a privilege and honor to be able

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Speaker 1: to sit here and call you a friend, to be

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Speaker 1: able to sit on the board of the Women's Sports

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Speaker 1: Foundation and represent you off the field present.

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Speaker 2: Aren't you not yet? But you keep pushing me into it.

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Speaker 3: You have to be You don't have to do whatever

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Speaker 3: you want. That's special because we do have athletes. It's

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Speaker 3: the president. Yes, I think we decided that fifty one

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Speaker 3: years ago.

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Speaker 1: It's been such a privilege to be able to learn

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Speaker 1: the business side of sport, the advocacy side of women

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Speaker 1: in sport, because you have lived it in every turn

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Speaker 1: and journey of your career, both on and off the court.

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Speaker 1: And as I said before, it is absolutely impossible in

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Speaker 1: the hour I get with you to introduce all of

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Speaker 1: the successful moments in your career because you quite frankly,

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Speaker 1: have checked every box, which is pretty special.

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Speaker 3: I don't know if I have. I don't think like that.

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Speaker 3: I think what's next, what's next?

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Speaker 2: Down Billy doesn't stop. I mean trying to get you

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Speaker 2: to sit down to like go to dinner. We're trying

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Speaker 2: to well cire that out.

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Speaker 3: You just don't.

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Speaker 2: Are you ever going to retire?

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Speaker 3: With Lana and I are always traveling and always working

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Speaker 3: on helping women's sports if we can, because we come

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Speaker 3: from a time when we had nothing. I'm pre title nine.

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Speaker 3: That's going way back. That's the sixties and it was,

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Speaker 3: you know, two jobs going to cal State. La got

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Speaker 3: to practice with the guys. It was it was rough

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Speaker 3: because you know, thirty miles away Arthur Ash has a

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Speaker 3: full scholarship to UCLA, Stan Smith who was number one

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Speaker 3: in the world as well, full scholarship to sc You know,

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Speaker 3: they're traveling. Would always see them come back from the

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Speaker 3: NCAA's in London. I always can remember standing in front

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Speaker 3: of the Westbury Hotel, like two or three years in

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Speaker 3: a row, and they were coming back and they're so

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Speaker 3: excited the collegiate championships and I was congratulating them and

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Speaker 3: then I went, we have nothing, nothing, and they don't

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Speaker 3: even and the guys don't notice it. So it's like

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Speaker 3: you're in this little cocoon that a lot of hurt,

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Speaker 3: you know, and you really but the most important thing

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Speaker 3: is how do we get it to go right? Yeah?

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Speaker 3: You know, so I was driven since I was a child.

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Speaker 3: Well that's what I want to talk about.

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Speaker 2: Where did that fight come from?

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Speaker 1: Like, what was it like for you growing up in

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Speaker 1: you know, in Long Beach, California.

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Speaker 2: What was little billy like.

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Speaker 1: That had this like fire competitive spirit to create change?

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Speaker 3: Well, first of all, I love the ball. Our ball

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Speaker 3: was my third word. And my younger brother, Randy Moffatt,

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Speaker 3: who played twelve years of professional baseball, most of them

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Speaker 3: with the San Francisco Giants. He was a relief pitcher.

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Speaker 3: But I think it's because we love to play catch

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Speaker 3: or you can roll it on the floor, kick, it

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Speaker 3: doesn't matter. We love the ball. That was a third word.

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Speaker 3: He also, that was his third word. It was so

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Speaker 3: interesting because I was five years older, so I was

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Speaker 3: just old enough to see him evolve from being born

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Speaker 3: to a baby and see how much he loved it

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Speaker 3: as well. And it comes from my dad and my mom.

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Speaker 3: Basically my dad really he loved basketball. He was really good.

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Speaker 3: In fact, my dad after World War two was asked

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Speaker 3: to go join. At that time, the NBA was just beginning,

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Speaker 3: just starting to try to find itself, and there was

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Speaker 3: another league and they merged and all that. But my

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Speaker 3: dad was asked to try out, and he decided to

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Speaker 3: come home because I'd been born and he really hadn't

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Speaker 3: spent any time with me yet. And my name I

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Speaker 3: was named after my dad because my mother wasn't sure

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Speaker 3: he come home from World War two. He may not

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Speaker 3: make it, so she always wanted a namesake and his

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Speaker 3: honor and he's Willis Jefferson, so I'm Billy Jeanie. That's

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Speaker 3: how she came up with my name. And my dad

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Speaker 3: really made a difference. So this is for all men

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Speaker 3: that are listen and women, but dads particularly can really

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Speaker 3: help their daughters. And my dad believed in me as

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Speaker 3: much as my brother.

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Speaker 1: Wow.

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Speaker 3: And I saw that and I went wow. Because when

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Speaker 3: you walk out the door and go to school or

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Speaker 3: other things, you're really second class, there's no question. And

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Speaker 3: sisters of color have it worst, people with disabilities have

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Speaker 3: it worse. But I knew even as a white girl,

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Speaker 3: I was the second classes. And by the time I

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Speaker 3: was eight, nine, ten, you just know that's the deal.

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Speaker 3: But my dad was just unbelievable how he would ask

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Speaker 3: me questions. He was a great life coach, and I

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Speaker 3: think because of that it really made a difference for me.

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Speaker 3: But I had this yearning. I mean, I played every

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Speaker 3: sport but tennis. But in fifth grade, Susan Williams asked

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Speaker 3: me to play. I went, what's tennis? Did you never

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Speaker 3: heard of tennis? I said, never? What do you do?

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Speaker 3: You had to run, jump and hit a ball. Oh,

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Speaker 3: I'm there, I'll try it. So my dad wouldn't buy

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Speaker 3: me my first racket. He said, you have to find

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Speaker 3: a way to get it. And he'd done that with

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Speaker 3: a bat too when I was three and four. And

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Speaker 3: what he was teaching me, and as you get older,

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Speaker 3: you realize he was teaching me delayed good gratification. And

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Speaker 3: I don't know if he knew he was doing that,

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Speaker 3: but he, I mean, you had I went to every

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Speaker 3: neighbor and I was so shy. I was like, could

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Speaker 3: I do a chore or something? And they say, okay,

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Speaker 3: come on in, we'll get you something. I mean, they

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Speaker 3: felt sorry for me. They give me a nickel dime

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Speaker 3: quarters and I had eight dollars and twenty nine cents

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Speaker 3: and I was so excited. I have to get my racket.

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Speaker 3: So finally you get my first racket, sleep with it.

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Speaker 3: Read all the his on tennis. I love history, and

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Speaker 3: the more you know about history, the more you know

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Speaker 3: about yourself. But more importantly and the most important reason

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Speaker 3: is it helps you shape the future. That's why I

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Speaker 3: asked you when we were talking about when you guys

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Speaker 3: got equal pay USA soccer, you know, how did you

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Speaker 3: do that and why did you do it? And did

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Speaker 3: you did you know the history at all of Julie

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Speaker 3: and what they did the ninety nine ers You probably didn't,

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Speaker 3: you see, that's why they help, so I have to

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Speaker 3: Did it help you?

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Speaker 1: Well, it gave us the courage to stand on their

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Speaker 1: shoulders and have do the brave thing.

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Speaker 3: That's why it's important, because both your generations helped shape

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Speaker 3: the future forward. And that's why I want people to

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Speaker 3: like history. I loved history. I knew everything about tennis

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Speaker 3: from the time I went out and hit with Susan

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Speaker 3: for the first time. I read the history. I got

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Speaker 3: every book I could get, and that helped me. So

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Speaker 3: we'll fast forward. I go to the park free lessons

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Speaker 3: because Susan belonged to a country club, and I'm like,

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Speaker 3: I'm not playing tennis. You know my dad, my dad's

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Speaker 3: a firefighter. There's no chance. But we also were on

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Speaker 3: a softball team together, and she told the coach, Hey, Val,

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Speaker 3: I took Billy out to play tennis. You know, Val said,

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Speaker 3: you don't know to give free instruction here, instruction in

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Speaker 3: free court, free coaching here every Tuesday at Holton Park

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Speaker 3: where we used to play softball. So I went out

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Speaker 3: and met Clyde Walker, and at the end of that session,

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Speaker 3: I knew what I wanted to do with my life.

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Speaker 3: I wanted to be the number one player in the world.

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Speaker 3: Done why I played shortstop in softball baseball? If I

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Speaker 3: played baseball, and I probably touched the ball, what six

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Speaker 3: times in the game, maybe six? Yeah, you get up

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Speaker 3: to bat, it's like once every nine times. And I'm

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Speaker 3: thinking to myself, I can hit one hundred balls in

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Speaker 3: five minutes in tennis. And it's running and it's changing direction. Well,

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Speaker 3: you played soccer. This is similar. The footwork's very similar.

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Speaker 3: So I just loved it. And of course I knew

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Speaker 3: all about tennis by then because I'd read every book.

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Speaker 3: So and then fast forward to twelve. Now I'm playing

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Speaker 3: in tournaments to get a ranking, and I was daydreaming

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Speaker 3: at the Los Angeles Tennis Club and I started to

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Speaker 3: realize everybody who played at white clothes. They played with

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Speaker 3: white ball, so everybody who played was white. I said, oh, no,

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Speaker 3: this is no good, this is not hell.

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Speaker 2: You knew this port early.

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Speaker 3: Oh, at twelve, I had epiphany. I knew that tennis

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Speaker 3: was global, which is huge for me because I like

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Speaker 3: to travel and I think about the world. I don't

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Speaker 3: just think about hometown everything. And then that was important.

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Speaker 3: So I love tennis because of that. Get to hit

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Speaker 3: a thousand balls, Oh god, it's so much fun. And run.

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Speaker 3: I love to run. And then I thought, you know,

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Speaker 3: maybe if I can become number one, maybe, but they'll

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Speaker 3: listen to me a little bit. People will listen. I thought,

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Speaker 3: you know, I'm going to fight for equality the rest

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Speaker 3: of my life. And we probably should talk about equity.

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Speaker 3: But equity is much more difficult to explain. Equality everybody

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Speaker 3: gets it, gets it. So that's why I still use equality.

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Speaker 3: I think sports this amazing way to change the world

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Speaker 3: and to make it a better way world. You know,

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Speaker 3: the ways to about art and music. Well, they should

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Speaker 3: always always include sports because we build bridges. Absolutely, we

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Speaker 3: absolutely build bridges, and people tend to forget sports. We're

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Speaker 3: kind of left out, and we're now starting to be

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Speaker 3: included a little.

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Speaker 1: It's the universal language everyone speaks, the language of sport

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Speaker 1: that unifies everyone, and it is such a source of belonging,

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Speaker 1: you know, Like I feel like so much of life

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Speaker 1: is lived through so much isolation and loneliness, especially nowadays,

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Speaker 1: and I really do feel that sport will always be

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Speaker 1: there to save us and make us feel a part

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Speaker 1: of something much bigger than our circumstance. So I do

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Speaker 1: think it's special, special, and that's what made me love

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Speaker 1: it from the beginning as a as a young kid.

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Speaker 3: Who how did you take up soccer?

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Speaker 1: Very similar to your your story. I had a brother

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Speaker 1: and we played everything together. I played basketball, I played baseball.

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Speaker 2: Weirdly enough, I wanted to be just like him.

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Speaker 3: So we's older.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he's older.

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Speaker 3: How much older?

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Speaker 1: He's a year and a half old. It's just a

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Speaker 1: little older than I am. And if he went to

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Speaker 1: the pool in baggies, I went to the pool and baggies.

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Speaker 2: I never wanted to wear a top.

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Speaker 1: I just didn't understand because if my brother didn't have

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Speaker 1: to do it, why why did I have to wear

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Speaker 1: this little triangle thing that falls off every time I

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Speaker 1: canon ball in the pool. So, I mean, I wouldn't

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Speaker 1: wear top till I was like six or seven. My

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Speaker 1: Mom's like it's time. Then I I played on all

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Speaker 1: of his team. So I was on like the all

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Speaker 1: Star baseball team with my brother and I.

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Speaker 3: I was a.

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Speaker 2: Shortstop catcher, shortstop catcher and pitcher.

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Speaker 1: So like I was in it, and I never wanted

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Speaker 1: to wear my hair up.

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Speaker 2: Everyone always made fun of me. I mean, I was.

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Speaker 1: So bullied as a child because people looked at me

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Speaker 1: because I wasn't feminine enough. I wasn't pretty enough. I

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Speaker 1: wasn't I didn't look the part. But man, I was

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Speaker 1: a competitor like I. When people made fun of me

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Speaker 1: or thought, you know, oh you have a girl on

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Speaker 1: your team, I was like, oh watch.

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Speaker 2: I just used it as fuel my whole life.

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Speaker 1: I used it as fuel, and I was the competitive

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Speaker 1: fire in me. It never leaves us. But I just

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Speaker 1: wanted to be with my brother and I had to

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Speaker 1: be good enough to be picked first.

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Speaker 2: That that was my mindset.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want to be the last I didn't. I

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Speaker 1: didn't want to be just like, oh, well, that's my sister,

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Speaker 1: she has to come. Like I was an asset to him.

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Speaker 1: He picked me first for everything because.

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Speaker 2: I was damn good at it.

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Speaker 3: I love it.

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Speaker 1: And in high school I played softball, I played baseball,

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Speaker 1: I played basketball, I played soccer.

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Speaker 2: I surfed, I skated.

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Speaker 1: I was reckless and I thought I could take on

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Speaker 1: the world and good.

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Speaker 3: You know they've done studies now, because you know a

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Speaker 3: lot of times parents will want their child to specialize

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Speaker 3: very early. Yes, but they've done research now and they

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Speaker 3: know that if you've played a lot of different sports

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Speaker 3: up to when you have to make the decision, maybe

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Speaker 3: at twelve ish, that you're going to have to do

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Speaker 3: this full time if you're going to make it. But

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Speaker 3: if you've played other sports, they've proven that you do

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Speaker 3: better and you actually will be better at the sport

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Speaker 3: you specialize in because you did all these other sports,

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Speaker 3: because you have to really develop different parts of your body.

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Speaker 3: Like when you're young, it's kick, run and throw. It's

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Speaker 3: a big bustle groups and then you go to more

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Speaker 3: fine night groups. But so it's like what was your

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Speaker 3: best shot, like where were you best at? Like, let's

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Speaker 3: take soccer, since that's what you're known for, but you know, honestly,

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Speaker 3: what made you a great soccer player? You know?

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Speaker 2: People, I love that you asked.

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Speaker 1: I don't usually have people ask me questions on the show,

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Speaker 1: but I'm right.

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Speaker 3: It's good.

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Speaker 1: It is so simple for me, and it shocks people

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Speaker 1: when I say this. I was willing to do the

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Speaker 1: ship other people weren't willing to do.

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Speaker 2: Like I didn't cut corners. I was very dedicated to

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Speaker 2: my craft.

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Speaker 1: My father was a big part of my story, and

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Speaker 1: he was one of those dads who, just like your father,

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Speaker 1: if you want it bad enough, you'll find a way.

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Speaker 1: I can't want it more than you. I want to

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Speaker 1: wake up and see you outside kicking that ball against

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Speaker 1: the fence, or throwing doing this or doing that in

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Speaker 1: the streets, playing five hundred with the boys. If you

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Speaker 1: want to be the best, it is an act and

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Speaker 1: in a commitment every single day.

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Speaker 2: I am not going to do it for you.

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Speaker 1: If you want to go to training, I will drive you,

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Speaker 1: And sure enough I was.

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Speaker 2: He had me.

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Speaker 1: He was driving me all over the damn place, and

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Speaker 1: he I don't think he really loved it.

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Speaker 3: Too much.

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Speaker 1: But it the mindset that he taught me is no

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Speaker 1: one will save you. I think at the top, Billy,

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Speaker 1: especially where where we have lived, where the air is

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Speaker 1: so thin, everyone is good, everyone ever great.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely you're talking about it's such a minor difference.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about the most.

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Speaker 1: It's the smallest percentage that when you're at that elite

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Speaker 1: level that changes an outcome. It could be one two

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Speaker 1: percent of a difference that will make you a champion

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Speaker 1: or not. And for me, I just was willing to

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Speaker 1: do it all to dedicate my time, my life to

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Speaker 1: my craft.

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Speaker 2: And then when I.

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Speaker 1: Started to go to school, I realized, like I have

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Speaker 1: to be I have to be a student athlete to

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Speaker 1: be able to go to the places I wanted to go.

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Speaker 1: And school was hard for me because I was an athlete.

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Speaker 1: I identified as an athlete through and through. If it wasn't.

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Speaker 2: Sports, I didn't want.

302
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Speaker 3: To do it.

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Speaker 1: So I had to refocus my mindset that if I

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Speaker 1: wanted to make a career for myself, and I'm you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm lucky enough to be a product of Title nine,

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Speaker 1: I would have never been able to go to college

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Speaker 1: without title Title nine.

308
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Speaker 3: And where'd you go?

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Speaker 1: And weirdly, I'll share a story University of North Carolina,

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Speaker 1: Chapel Hill.

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Speaker 3: Oh I know about that, Yes, Starhill.

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Speaker 1: I was about thirteen years old, and you know, we talked.

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Speaker 1: We spoke about being like this bullish person with this

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Speaker 1: big ego, and I thought I could take on the world,

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Speaker 1: and I thought I could really do incredible things.

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Speaker 2: Like I believed in myself.

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Speaker 1: More than anyone, like anyone believed in me. I didn't

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Speaker 1: need affirmation. I really believed in my core that I

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Speaker 1: was going to be great. So I got my phone

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Speaker 1: and I had the you know, we still had plug

321
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Speaker 1: in phones, and I got the cord one, yep, I

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Speaker 1: got the court I had the cool little clear phone, and.

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Speaker 2: I crawled into my closet.

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Speaker 1: I didn't want my parents to hear me have this conversation.

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Speaker 1: I was thirteen years old and I got antson Drance's

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Speaker 1: phone number and I called him and I knew I

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Speaker 1: was going to get in trouble because it was a

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Speaker 1: long distance call and I was very quiet, and you know,

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00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,960
Speaker 1: he picked up the phone. I said, Hi, I'm Ashelyn Harris.

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Speaker 1: You don't know me, but you will, and I've heard

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Speaker 1: you don't give full scholarships to women and unless they

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Speaker 1: play for the US women's national team. I said, I

333
00:17:03,880 --> 00:17:05,960
Speaker 1: promise I will be there. I'm just not there yet.

334
00:17:06,040 --> 00:17:07,679
Speaker 1: But if you want me to go to your school,

335
00:17:08,320 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 1: you have to give me a full ride because my

336
00:17:11,080 --> 00:17:13,720
Speaker 1: parents can't afford it and I don't want to put

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Speaker 1: them through that and I don't want to go anywhere

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Speaker 1: else but Carolina. And I think Anson's never shocked. I

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00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:26,000
Speaker 1: think that is probably one of the most shocking things

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Speaker 1: he's ever experienced. And and I ended up getting a

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Speaker 1: full a full scholarship to North Carolina.

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Speaker 3: Was he pretty impressed with what you said? I think?

343
00:17:35,160 --> 00:17:38,720
Speaker 2: I think so, sounds like he said, yes, right, Yeah, he.

344
00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:42,480
Speaker 1: Was absolutely shocked. He was like, we will gladly come

345
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 1: watch you play. And I was like, I'm I'm going

346
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,520
Speaker 1: to go to I'm going to be a tar heel.

347
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Speaker 2: It is not me and go there. And that was

348
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Speaker 2: a really and yeah I went.

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Speaker 1: I was the first to graduate college from my entire family,

350
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Speaker 1: and it was really really important to my grandmother, who

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Speaker 1: is no longer here. But she didn't have access to sports,

352
00:18:09,119 --> 00:18:12,000
Speaker 1: she didn't have access to go get a college education.

353
00:18:13,400 --> 00:18:19,440
Speaker 1: She met my grandfather picking cotton on a farm and

354
00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:23,000
Speaker 1: at Sunday School, they you know, thirteen years old, they

355
00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,160
Speaker 1: started dating. They got married at sixteen and went into

356
00:18:26,280 --> 00:18:31,679
Speaker 1: the Air Force, so her life was very different. And

357
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,320
Speaker 1: every letter that always would come in from a college coach,

358
00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 1: she would always hang it on the refrigerator.

359
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:38,800
Speaker 3: Oh that's so sweet.

360
00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:40,919
Speaker 2: It was so sweet. So I knew it meant so

361
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Speaker 2: much to her.

362
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Speaker 1: And when I graduated, I was drafted into the professional league.

363
00:18:46,359 --> 00:18:48,040
Speaker 2: I didn't end up walking.

364
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,119
Speaker 1: But when I got my diploma, I sent it to

365
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Speaker 1: her because I knew how important it was.

366
00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:55,280
Speaker 2: And then I.

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Speaker 1: Just recently got it back when she passed away that

368
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,680
Speaker 1: she framed it and had it in her her office,

369
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,560
Speaker 1: and it was a really proud moment for both of

370
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:06,200
Speaker 1: us because I was the first of the family to.

371
00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,960
Speaker 2: Go to school on a full ride. And that is.

372
00:19:10,920 --> 00:19:11,840
Speaker 3: Because you're an athlete.

373
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Speaker 2: Title nine go girl, Yeah so I do.

374
00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:18,879
Speaker 1: I always ask this question, and it's really important to me.

375
00:19:18,960 --> 00:19:22,040
Speaker 1: This show is really important to me because I think

376
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,200
Speaker 1: so often when you make it to the top, people

377
00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:30,879
Speaker 1: only want to hear about the successful stories and how

378
00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:33,960
Speaker 1: you got there, and there's so much to who we

379
00:19:34,040 --> 00:19:35,840
Speaker 1: are behind what we do.

380
00:19:35,960 --> 00:19:38,520
Speaker 3: We don't get there alone, and I think people don't

381
00:19:38,520 --> 00:19:42,160
Speaker 3: relist at something. Now it's like family. It's always if

382
00:19:42,160 --> 00:19:45,640
Speaker 3: you talk to anybody in the world that really achieves greatness,

383
00:19:46,840 --> 00:19:50,000
Speaker 3: they'll tell you all the different people that made the difference.

384
00:19:50,040 --> 00:19:53,119
Speaker 3: And for me with so many obviously with my parents,

385
00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:54,800
Speaker 3: I mean they work three jobs. So my brother and

386
00:19:54,840 --> 00:19:59,119
Speaker 3: I get players are sports and getting him to a

387
00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,679
Speaker 3: you know, a baseball field and getting me to a

388
00:20:01,680 --> 00:20:03,720
Speaker 3: tennis court. We're going different places. Now we're not going

389
00:20:03,720 --> 00:20:07,560
Speaker 3: to the same sport. It was rough. And then then

390
00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:09,840
Speaker 3: they have to get other parents organized. So they do

391
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 3: a carpool, you know, and you're playing every day in tennis,

392
00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:14,960
Speaker 3: you're going. If you win, you go the next day.

393
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,439
Speaker 3: If you win, you go the next day. You just

394
00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,000
Speaker 3: keep going. So you've got to be ready for seven

395
00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:24,399
Speaker 3: days if your child wins. They never asked my brother

396
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,520
Speaker 3: because my brother at ten years old, I'm five years older.

397
00:20:27,720 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 3: I'm the opposite of you at the I remember at

398
00:20:31,520 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 3: the dining room table, I knew he's going to do

399
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,639
Speaker 3: this here he told me we're really tight, and he goes.

400
00:20:37,200 --> 00:20:39,480
Speaker 3: I just wanted to tell everybody, mom and dad, I

401
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:41,800
Speaker 3: want to be a major League baseball player and my

402
00:20:41,880 --> 00:20:46,720
Speaker 3: parents just will are you kidding me? You too want

403
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:51,800
Speaker 3: to be? I love? Oh my my parents are going okay, no.

404
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:54,119
Speaker 3: I could just see them scrambling and thinking, how are

405
00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:55,960
Speaker 3: we going to do this? We got one that's killing us.

406
00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:58,320
Speaker 3: Now we're gonna have two that we're going to have

407
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:00,840
Speaker 3: to figure this out. But they never asked my brother

408
00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:04,359
Speaker 3: and me if we won. M they didn't say. And

409
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,040
Speaker 3: this is what parents do to children All the time.

410
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:08,560
Speaker 3: I see it. I watch did you win? Did you win?

411
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,399
Speaker 3: Did you win? The kid is so upset, especially if

412
00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:14,480
Speaker 3: he or she or they or whatever gender they may be,

413
00:21:14,560 --> 00:21:18,360
Speaker 3: that they lost, and it's just why do you do that?

414
00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,520
Speaker 3: If it's so much just heaving is pressure? And I

415
00:21:22,560 --> 00:21:24,800
Speaker 3: think one of the big reasons that my brother and

416
00:21:24,880 --> 00:21:30,280
Speaker 3: I made it to the top is that we love pressure.

417
00:21:30,520 --> 00:21:34,080
Speaker 3: We thrive on it. He's a relief pitcher. He should

418
00:21:34,240 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 3: he was going to be a third base or a fielder.

419
00:21:37,160 --> 00:21:39,640
Speaker 3: But in the Kawanas T shirt Ley, they're so cute,

420
00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:44,240
Speaker 3: the little green little T shirts on Kwanas the sun's setting,

421
00:21:44,600 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 3: nobody can hit, nobody can pitch. Oh my gosh, no

422
00:21:47,400 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 3: tea ball yet. So my brother was the only kid

423
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:52,320
Speaker 3: on the team. They got the you know when he pitched,

424
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 3: got the ball with an eight feet of home plate,

425
00:21:55,280 --> 00:21:57,440
Speaker 3: so we could have a game and if someone actually

426
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:00,800
Speaker 3: someone pitch it, hit it, some would feel it. And

427
00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:03,560
Speaker 3: if they threw it to the first base, everybody stand

428
00:22:03,600 --> 00:22:06,480
Speaker 3: up and go yo. Because that happened about once a game.

429
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:10,480
Speaker 3: It took forever because it was hard. They really needed

430
00:22:10,480 --> 00:22:13,760
Speaker 3: t ball then. So but my parents are great. We'd

431
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:17,120
Speaker 3: come home or i'd walk in from a tournament, maybe

432
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:20,200
Speaker 3: somebody else took me to LA or just some other place,

433
00:22:20,880 --> 00:22:23,080
Speaker 3: and they never said did you win? They always gate, well,

434
00:22:23,280 --> 00:22:24,880
Speaker 3: did you have a good day? What kind of day

435
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:26,320
Speaker 3: did you have? And I go, are you kidding? I

436
00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:30,639
Speaker 3: lost it. I hate losing. I hate it. And my

437
00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 3: dad would say, okay, let me go on and on

438
00:22:32,560 --> 00:22:35,119
Speaker 3: and finally say, okay, let me just ask you one question.

439
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 3: Did you try your best? I said, of course, I'd

440
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:41,720
Speaker 3: tried my best. He goes, it's good enough. Start over.

441
00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:44,679
Speaker 3: And I think because they were that way with my

442
00:22:44,760 --> 00:22:49,080
Speaker 3: brother Randy and me, I think that's why we really

443
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,480
Speaker 3: thrived on pressure. We do thrive on it. We like it,

444
00:22:52,600 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 3: you know, we loved it. I'm talking about sports now,

445
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:57,720
Speaker 3: about real life.

446
00:22:56,240 --> 00:22:58,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're gonna get to that.

447
00:22:58,800 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 3: That's a whole nother discussion.

448
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,800
Speaker 2: But that's incredible.

449
00:23:02,920 --> 00:23:05,400
Speaker 3: But I think that, I really think that ingredient there

450
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:08,760
Speaker 3: that they did not and Evon Guligan, who was number

451
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:14,200
Speaker 3: one in the world Indigenous Australian, her mother used to

452
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:17,000
Speaker 3: say to her, have a lovely day, and she would

453
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,800
Speaker 3: come home and she said, well, did you have a

454
00:23:19,840 --> 00:23:22,640
Speaker 3: lovely day? And she was also number one, And if

455
00:23:22,640 --> 00:23:26,800
Speaker 3: you listened to a lot of these number ones, there's

456
00:23:26,840 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 3: a theme there that they just wanted their child and

457
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 3: the child wanted it so bad anyway. I mean I

458
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,159
Speaker 3: wanted I wanted to be number one. I was not

459
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,840
Speaker 3: interested in anything else. Yeah, and I came from team

460
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 3: sports too, so it's like I always thought of us

461
00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 3: were all a team together trying to make our sport

462
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,480
Speaker 3: better because I you know, I started as an amateur

463
00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 3: and I hated it because we were the best players

464
00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,200
Speaker 3: in the world, and yet we're called amateurs. I said, well,

465
00:23:51,240 --> 00:23:54,320
Speaker 3: amateurs should be a hobby and you're a pro if

466
00:23:54,359 --> 00:23:56,800
Speaker 3: you're the best, and said, we're pros. And I used

467
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,600
Speaker 3: to tell her and we used to make fourteen dollars

468
00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:00,960
Speaker 3: a day. I said, we got a you know, change

469
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:03,560
Speaker 3: it got to change it. So we changed it. But

470
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:08,640
Speaker 3: my generation changed tennis from amateur to pro and that's

471
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:14,399
Speaker 3: I call this the transition generation for doing that. And

472
00:24:15,200 --> 00:24:18,240
Speaker 3: but boy, it was hard. It was so difficult. And

473
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:21,359
Speaker 3: I mean I never got any sleep for years, just trying.

474
00:24:21,119 --> 00:24:22,520
Speaker 2: To We still haven't stopped.

475
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:23,960
Speaker 3: Well, I still get sleep though.

476
00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:29,400
Speaker 1: Now this is Wide Open, and I'm your host, Ashland Harris.

477
00:24:29,480 --> 00:24:30,359
Speaker 2: We'll be right back.

478
00:24:43,480 --> 00:24:45,520
Speaker 1: I have to ask you this question because it is

479
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: a question I ask every guest on the show.

480
00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:51,560
Speaker 2: This This show is called wide.

481
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:55,120
Speaker 1: Open for a reason, and it's you know, seizing the moment.

482
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,200
Speaker 2: Thank you very much, Billy. That means a lot.

483
00:24:59,400 --> 00:25:02,480
Speaker 1: But it's really like separating yourself from the pack. It's

484
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,800
Speaker 1: seizing the moment and the opportunity. But also wide open

485
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:09,639
Speaker 1: is peeling back the layers and being open and vulnerable

486
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:15,080
Speaker 1: and living a life authentic to who you are. I'm

487
00:25:15,119 --> 00:25:21,240
Speaker 1: curious of what moment in your life, whether professionally or personally,

488
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,040
Speaker 1: really split you wide open that changed changed it all

489
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 1: for you, your your path, your mindset. What was that moment

490
00:25:30,359 --> 00:25:31,280
Speaker 1: that changed.

491
00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,240
Speaker 3: It's obvious when Susan asked me to play tennis, I

492
00:25:33,920 --> 00:25:36,560
Speaker 3: still see Susan, and she lives in Philly, and every

493
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 3: time I see it's all I go, it's all your

494
00:25:38,480 --> 00:25:41,200
Speaker 3: fault and it's all her fault. But she's on my

495
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:43,640
Speaker 3: blessing list every day too. I do a blessing list

496
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:46,720
Speaker 3: in my head every morning. I'm waking up to be

497
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:50,920
Speaker 3: thankful for people and whatever. Susan's always on my list

498
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,520
Speaker 3: because look at the life I've had. Because she said,

499
00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:56,440
Speaker 3: do you want to play tennis? I mean, I never

500
00:25:56,480 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 3: heard it. So I'm always thankful to her. And then

501
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,680
Speaker 3: I got married in sixty five, totally in love with him.

502
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,879
Speaker 3: Met him at calcay La. I saw him across the

503
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:05,680
Speaker 3: room and went, who's he?

504
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:06,400
Speaker 1: Hmm?

505
00:26:06,960 --> 00:26:11,200
Speaker 3: Great love, got married and then I start to realize

506
00:26:11,320 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 3: that maybe I like women and men. But during the seventies,

507
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:19,119
Speaker 3: when we started women's professional tennis, I was told by

508
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:23,199
Speaker 3: sponsors if I say anything about what I'm feeling that

509
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,439
Speaker 3: they wouldn't have a tour. So that was really easy.

510
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:30,440
Speaker 3: That's all. Keep my mouth shut. And at the same time,

511
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:32,439
Speaker 3: I'm trying to figure out who I am, and I

512
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:34,679
Speaker 3: asked Larry for a divorce because I didn't think I

513
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,560
Speaker 3: was being fair to him. I couldn't. I just could

514
00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:38,840
Speaker 3: not figure out who I am.

515
00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,960
Speaker 2: How When did that start for you, though? Did you feel?

516
00:26:42,119 --> 00:26:46,800
Speaker 3: Probably after we're married, for sure, So not as a child.

517
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 3: You didn't know. In college one girl came and kissed me. Yeah,

518
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:54,320
Speaker 3: I don't felt liked it or not, but I was shocked.

519
00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:59,159
Speaker 3: But no, no, I always dated guys and love guys,

520
00:26:59,240 --> 00:27:02,040
Speaker 3: and yeah, had no understanding. I thought it was straight.

521
00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:06,399
Speaker 1: How because it's it's so important, because your visibility and

522
00:27:07,359 --> 00:27:10,639
Speaker 1: who you are and how you show up is so

523
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,560
Speaker 1: important for our community, as you know, because it is

524
00:27:15,680 --> 00:27:16,879
Speaker 1: tough and it is.

525
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,879
Speaker 3: Well in those days, you couldn't do it. You can today.

526
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 3: Now we're celebrated, which is great, great, But then we

527
00:27:22,480 --> 00:27:25,359
Speaker 3: were not celebrated. I did have an affair with Marilyn

528
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:27,680
Speaker 3: Barnett and she outed me at eighty one.

529
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:29,360
Speaker 2: What was that like for you, Billy?

530
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,880
Speaker 3: It was terrible because of being outed, You're not doing

531
00:27:31,880 --> 00:27:35,080
Speaker 3: anything on your own terms. You're reacting, dear. Yeah, and

532
00:27:35,119 --> 00:27:37,639
Speaker 3: by then, by any one, I'd met Ilana, who I'm

533
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:40,240
Speaker 3: married to now, and I knew she was the one.

534
00:27:40,440 --> 00:27:44,920
Speaker 3: She's incredible, and we were still being quiet. She wanted

535
00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:47,159
Speaker 3: to stay quiet too, she's from South Africa didn't want

536
00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,879
Speaker 3: her family to know. And when I was out it,

537
00:27:48,920 --> 00:27:54,480
Speaker 3: I lost all my endorsements immediately except for one company,

538
00:27:54,520 --> 00:27:57,400
Speaker 3: but they dropped the price on me really low, which

539
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:00,400
Speaker 3: was worse actually in some ways so basic. I didn't

540
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:02,359
Speaker 3: have any endorsements and I was at the end of

541
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,320
Speaker 3: my career, so I was just now going to start

542
00:28:05,359 --> 00:28:07,200
Speaker 3: to make some real money because they were going to

543
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,679
Speaker 3: give me lifetime endorsements, and I lost all this, so

544
00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 3: I basically had to start over. But in a way

545
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:17,360
Speaker 3: it was a blessing because I did start to live

546
00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 3: an authentic life to your point, but it was excruciating.

547
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:26,479
Speaker 2: How did you separate it, Billy? When you were playing?

548
00:28:26,640 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 3: How did you The tennis court was my sanctuary.

549
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:31,320
Speaker 2: That was your place to feel safe.

550
00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:34,439
Speaker 3: Nobody can ask me for an autograph. Nobody can ask

551
00:28:34,520 --> 00:28:38,240
Speaker 3: me anything except the umpire maybe. Yeah, No, I was

552
00:28:38,400 --> 00:28:40,800
Speaker 3: like then, I was even more thankful that I had

553
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 3: this this stage because to me, a tennis court's my

554
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:47,000
Speaker 3: stage anyway, or our stage if it's doubles or whatever.

555
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 3: So I love every time I see a tennis court

556
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:52,680
Speaker 3: any place I can see in a cornfield, see a

557
00:28:52,720 --> 00:28:55,160
Speaker 3: tennis court, and I go ah right, it's a stage.

558
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:59,240
Speaker 3: It's I just love it. It's math, it's science, it's art.

559
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,480
Speaker 3: It's you know, you shape time and space. I mean

560
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 3: you do that when you played soccer. I don't think

561
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:07,520
Speaker 3: people used to say, what's tennis. I used to say

562
00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 3: it's art and science to me because there's so much

563
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,560
Speaker 3: math in it. I remember geometry and going, ah god,

564
00:29:13,640 --> 00:29:16,560
Speaker 3: I don't know. Then I went to went out to

565
00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,600
Speaker 3: play and I went, are you kidding? This is geometry, dummy.

566
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:22,440
Speaker 3: And so then I had a great time in class.

567
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:24,960
Speaker 3: I couldn't wait to go to geometry, and I'd relate

568
00:29:25,000 --> 00:29:27,240
Speaker 3: everything to my tennis. It's like, oh, this is great.

569
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 3: So I loved it. But to get back to the

570
00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:36,480
Speaker 3: tough times is like the court really was the sanctuary.

571
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:38,800
Speaker 3: But I was basically finished by the time I was

572
00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,800
Speaker 3: out it. I was old, and I retired in eighty three,

573
00:29:42,840 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 3: I was forty. But I love to play.

574
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:50,840
Speaker 1: It's that that moment that is so special, that was forced,

575
00:29:51,040 --> 00:29:55,760
Speaker 1: and the moment was taken by someone else.

576
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:59,720
Speaker 2: But what I noticed most, Billy, is your entire career.

577
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,600
Speaker 1: Everyone had an opinion of you, the way you look,

578
00:30:05,720 --> 00:30:13,520
Speaker 1: the way you moved, You wear glasses like Oh, that's.

579
00:30:13,360 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 3: Another good thing. Every kid, you know that what everybody

580
00:30:16,080 --> 00:30:18,000
Speaker 3: used to tell me, it's a kid when I wear glasses.

581
00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:21,360
Speaker 3: There's never been a number one player that wears glasses.

582
00:30:22,200 --> 00:30:24,360
Speaker 2: How did you not let it penetrate?

583
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 3: Though I penetrated. I want, I said, I'll show them

584
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,000
Speaker 3: I'm going to be number one. And so every child

585
00:30:30,080 --> 00:30:33,520
Speaker 3: that has to wear glasses and every person you just

586
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,320
Speaker 3: do whatever you want. Let's go. And I see babies,

587
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,040
Speaker 3: you know, with little glasses, and you know a lot

588
00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 3: of kids have challenges with their eyes, and I always

589
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,400
Speaker 3: make a comment I love their frames. Oh my god,

590
00:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,320
Speaker 3: look at those glasses. Are so cute. Because I want

591
00:30:47,360 --> 00:30:50,960
Speaker 3: them to feel that it's special. Yeah.

592
00:30:51,640 --> 00:30:55,040
Speaker 1: I read a story that when you were in junior's

593
00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,239
Speaker 1: your mom made you a pair of tennis shorts and

594
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:01,040
Speaker 1: you were removed, moved from a picture.

595
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:03,560
Speaker 3: That's the very first time I played in a sanctioned

596
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:06,280
Speaker 3: tournament to get a ranking, and we looked up what

597
00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:09,280
Speaker 3: are you supposed to wear? What's the uniform? Because I

598
00:31:09,320 --> 00:31:12,800
Speaker 3: played softball, basketball, volleyball, did track and feel, I did

599
00:31:12,840 --> 00:31:16,880
Speaker 3: all these other sports. And like it says you have

600
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:18,600
Speaker 3: to wear a white soul, I'll make you some shorts,

601
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 3: and then I wear a white blouse and it was impeccable.

602
00:31:21,480 --> 00:31:24,800
Speaker 3: You know it means clean whistle and tennis shoes. I

603
00:31:24,840 --> 00:31:27,920
Speaker 3: used to polish my shoes with white polish to make

604
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 3: them absolutely be perfect, but they didn't. I'd never seen

605
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: a tennis dress or a skirt until that day. I

606
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:40,240
Speaker 3: went to watch some matches and I go, oh, what

607
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,040
Speaker 3: are those? What do they call those? Well then I said,

608
00:31:43,040 --> 00:31:45,000
Speaker 3: well they have a skirt. What do you call those

609
00:31:45,000 --> 00:31:47,280
Speaker 3: other things? What do you call them? Their tennis dress?

610
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 3: And I didn't know that until that day. But he said,

611
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 3: little girl, you can't be in the photo because you're

612
00:31:52,640 --> 00:31:54,480
Speaker 3: not wearing a skirt or a dress. Well, we've never

613
00:31:54,520 --> 00:31:58,440
Speaker 3: seen one. And I was furious with him, Perry T. Jones,

614
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:03,000
Speaker 3: because you cannot do that to children. Should always accept them.

615
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:07,160
Speaker 3: And I remember my mother being mortified and so embarrassed,

616
00:32:07,680 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 3: and I went over and I whispered in her. I go, Mommy,

617
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,120
Speaker 3: don't you worry. I'll show him one day.

618
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:14,160
Speaker 2: Oh I love it.

619
00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 3: And so I wasn't in the photo because I was

620
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,880
Speaker 3: wearing shorts. I said, don't worry. And I said, but

621
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:24,920
Speaker 3: I whispered to her because she was just so embarrassed

622
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:26,680
Speaker 3: for her child and her you know, she had made

623
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,160
Speaker 3: a mistake, and I said, you didn't. It's not about you, mommy,

624
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:31,840
Speaker 3: it's about him. So anyway, I was furious with him.

625
00:32:31,840 --> 00:32:36,120
Speaker 3: But my mother immediately went home that night and sewed

626
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,080
Speaker 3: me a tenistra, and my brother brought it up the

627
00:32:39,120 --> 00:32:41,480
Speaker 3: other day, you know, remembering my mother on the floor

628
00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,240
Speaker 3: with a with a cup making the scallops for around

629
00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:48,040
Speaker 3: the trim. And I love that dress to this day

630
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:50,480
Speaker 3: because my mother made it, and I know the circumstances

631
00:32:51,320 --> 00:32:53,920
Speaker 3: that that caused her to sew it, because we didn't

632
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,160
Speaker 3: have the money to buy things, so she was so

633
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:57,560
Speaker 3: we didn't have the money to go out to eat.

634
00:32:58,280 --> 00:32:59,840
Speaker 3: Oh my god. We finally got to go out to eat,

635
00:32:59,840 --> 00:33:01,880
Speaker 3: to get a hamburg or something, and my mom would say,

636
00:33:02,040 --> 00:33:04,680
Speaker 3: you can't have both a coke and a milkshake. You

637
00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 3: I have to want of it or French fries or whatever.

638
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:09,840
Speaker 3: Of course I shouldn't be eating that anyway, And they'll say,

639
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:13,320
Speaker 3: we didn't know better. That's back in the fifties.

640
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:19,240
Speaker 1: So you have been very open with how things looked

641
00:33:19,360 --> 00:33:23,680
Speaker 1: and felt for you, and the scrutiny that everyone placed

642
00:33:23,720 --> 00:33:28,240
Speaker 1: on you through your career and you have been open

643
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,880
Speaker 1: about having a eating disorder during that process.

644
00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 3: And no, I still I'm always every morning I wake

645
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 3: up and go, I have an eating disorder, just like

646
00:33:36,560 --> 00:33:38,840
Speaker 3: if you're an alcoholic or anything else, do you admit

647
00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:41,720
Speaker 3: it every day. I went to Renfrew and Philadelphia for

648
00:33:41,760 --> 00:33:44,840
Speaker 3: six weeks lived there. I still have therapy every week

649
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:48,120
Speaker 3: from the therapist from Renfrew, which is great because I

650
00:33:48,120 --> 00:33:51,160
Speaker 3: don't have to go, well, here's my family history. She

651
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 3: knows everything. One of my dreams, one of my wants

652
00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:00,320
Speaker 3: is to make the definitive docu on eating disorders. Being

653
00:34:00,320 --> 00:34:03,800
Speaker 3: at Renfrew for six weeks, living with all these different people,

654
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 3: girls that they don't have women there that have eating disorders,

655
00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:14,239
Speaker 3: it really taught me so much about why we have them,

656
00:34:14,520 --> 00:34:19,120
Speaker 3: what do we do about it, and how can we

657
00:34:19,600 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 3: get through this and be healthy. So it's been a

658
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:28,359
Speaker 3: really unbelievable journey just in that area. I really want

659
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:30,160
Speaker 3: to make this film and I've started to talk a

660
00:34:30,160 --> 00:34:35,239
Speaker 3: lot to different people to get this done because I

661
00:34:35,280 --> 00:34:37,520
Speaker 3: want it to be about all the eating disorders. But

662
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:40,480
Speaker 3: how can I really help? How can we really help

663
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 3: someone that has an eating disorder?

664
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,319
Speaker 1: One in every two women drop out of sports at

665
00:34:48,360 --> 00:34:50,440
Speaker 1: an early age because of body issues.

666
00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:52,400
Speaker 3: Right, I did something for Dove the other day at

667
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,719
Speaker 3: in New Orleans. It's about they tell them they have

668
00:34:56,760 --> 00:34:59,399
Speaker 3: the wrong body type. Yeah, I think it's forty five percent.

669
00:34:59,600 --> 00:35:00,840
Speaker 3: Since can you believe that?

670
00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:01,040
Speaker 1: Kid?

671
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:02,680
Speaker 3: Well, what did I talk to you? What did I

672
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:06,400
Speaker 3: say at the beginning, near the beginning about socialization? We're socialized.

673
00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,280
Speaker 3: We have to be perfect, perfect, and girls always feel

674
00:35:09,320 --> 00:35:13,279
Speaker 3: this little nudge inside. I'll talk about myself because God,

675
00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 3: it can't judge you or somebody else, but it's this

676
00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:17,880
Speaker 3: little nudge that we're not quite good enough.

677
00:35:18,320 --> 00:35:22,560
Speaker 1: Even in twenty twenty five, we still in terms of

678
00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: media coverage.

679
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:24,600
Speaker 3: Oh look at it.

680
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:29,279
Speaker 2: It's still about physical attributes. These women are showing up.

681
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:29,960
Speaker 2: You know.

682
00:35:30,040 --> 00:35:33,960
Speaker 1: You talk about Alona mar at the Olympics, the rugby player,

683
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:38,720
Speaker 1: and she was in tears saying, I need this body

684
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:44,120
Speaker 1: to do great things, to be powerful, and it's worth

685
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,959
Speaker 1: educating exactly. It's we still are told every single day

686
00:35:50,680 --> 00:35:52,839
Speaker 1: we don't look the right way, where we don't fit

687
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:53,880
Speaker 1: the right sizes.

688
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:55,279
Speaker 2: It's it's exhausting.

689
00:35:55,719 --> 00:35:58,439
Speaker 3: Well, when we started women's professional tennis, there was nine

690
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:06,839
Speaker 3: of us tournament in Houston, Texas. Gladys Hellman helped us

691
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:09,879
Speaker 3: get it done. She was the publisher of World Tennis magazine,

692
00:36:10,280 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 3: and there were nine of us. Were called the original

693
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:15,799
Speaker 3: nine because the tournament in Houston is the birth of

694
00:36:15,840 --> 00:36:18,799
Speaker 3: women's professional tennis the way you know it today. That's

695
00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 3: where it started. That is the beginning, okay, And here

696
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,640
Speaker 3: are the three things that we came up with that

697
00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:29,280
Speaker 3: if any girl born in this world is good enough,

698
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:34,200
Speaker 3: she'll have a place to compete. Number two, to be

699
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:39,680
Speaker 3: appreciated for our accomplishments, not only only our looks.

700
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:40,840
Speaker 2: Yes.

701
00:36:41,080 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 3: And number three to be able to make a living

702
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:45,239
Speaker 3: playing tennis, this sport we love. But the number two

703
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:52,520
Speaker 3: was to be appreciated for accomplishments. Like guys are they

704
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,120
Speaker 3: appreciate for their compeishtions. It's not always about their looks,

705
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 3: is it? But Nils? For instance, in college, the girls

706
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:02,640
Speaker 3: who are sexualizing themselves most make the most money. So

707
00:37:03,120 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 3: what are we encouraged to do. We're encouraged if it's

708
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,000
Speaker 3: more money. We're encouraged to sexualize ourselves. But we're never

709
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:14,640
Speaker 3: quite perfect, you know, we're always itchy. I don't know,

710
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:17,520
Speaker 3: there's that little itch like we're never quite good enough.

711
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:25,120
Speaker 1: You are one of the most famous athletes of all time,

712
00:37:25,920 --> 00:37:29,240
Speaker 1: and all of this scrutiny and all of this.

713
00:37:29,360 --> 00:37:34,640
Speaker 2: Access people have to you to watch you. Ninety million

714
00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:39,440
Speaker 2: people watched you win the Battle of the Sexes.

715
00:37:39,640 --> 00:37:45,080
Speaker 1: I am curious how other people's expectation of you, Billy,

716
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:53,040
Speaker 1: has impacted your self worth and your career. How do

717
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:56,800
Speaker 1: you move in the world with that on your shoulder.

718
00:37:58,320 --> 00:37:59,359
Speaker 3: I don't mind that at all.

719
00:37:59,480 --> 00:38:00,080
Speaker 2: You don't know.

720
00:38:00,200 --> 00:38:04,440
Speaker 3: And also I knew when I played Bobby Riggs back

721
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:07,560
Speaker 3: in nineteen seventy three, and he's a former number one player,

722
00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,560
Speaker 3: and I knew all about him. I love my history,

723
00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:13,520
Speaker 3: and I'd seen little tapes of him they only used

724
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 3: in the old days, maybe get two shots or three shots.

725
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:19,120
Speaker 3: I read all his books, so I knew a lot

726
00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 3: about him. He knew nothing about me, which is normal anyway,

727
00:38:22,960 --> 00:38:26,840
Speaker 3: that's a whole another discussion you want. But I knew

728
00:38:27,480 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 3: that I would be remembered for this match. If I

729
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 3: lost the match, they'd always say the rest of my life,

730
00:38:32,920 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 3: oh there goes that girl. She lost to that guy.

731
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,520
Speaker 3: And so I thought to myself, that's ridiculous. But I

732
00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,440
Speaker 3: also knew it was an opportunity would have a lot

733
00:38:40,480 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 3: of people watching. It was a title nine had been

734
00:38:43,640 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 3: passed the year before. We'd had our women's professional Tour,

735
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,520
Speaker 3: which started really in seventy one, and this is September

736
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:58,000
Speaker 3: seventy three. We just formed our Tennis Association June twenty one,

737
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:02,960
Speaker 3: seventy three before Wimbledon, and Wimbledon was the big one

738
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 3: to win. It still probably is. And seventy three was

739
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,920
Speaker 3: an amazing year. I mean difficult, a lot of pressures

740
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,839
Speaker 3: that I actually liked. I knew this match could help.

741
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,680
Speaker 3: If it could help Title nine, could help women's sports,

742
00:39:17,680 --> 00:39:20,920
Speaker 3: if it could help women and men, because we kind

743
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 3: of keep learning about each other. We couldn't get a

744
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,719
Speaker 3: credit card on our own in nineteen seventy three. Can

745
00:39:28,760 --> 00:39:32,000
Speaker 3: you imagine Larry went to law school in the late sixties,

746
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:34,680
Speaker 3: my former husband, And every time you get all these

747
00:39:34,719 --> 00:39:37,960
Speaker 3: forms for credit cards, he go, you see this, they

748
00:39:38,000 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 3: should be coming to you. You're the famous one. You're

749
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 3: the one that's making money right now. I'm just a student.

750
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:46,399
Speaker 3: But they think I'm a lot of student and I'll

751
00:39:46,400 --> 00:39:49,399
Speaker 3: eventually have money. Is the reason I'm getting these, he said,

752
00:39:49,440 --> 00:39:53,280
Speaker 3: It's ridiculous. Larry's such a feminist. He's great. He just

753
00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:55,880
Speaker 3: used to get crazed about that because he was correct.

754
00:39:56,440 --> 00:39:59,200
Speaker 3: Most guys probably didn't think about it, and most women

755
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:01,600
Speaker 3: probably not either. But the point was, I knew this

756
00:40:02,040 --> 00:40:05,520
Speaker 3: time in history, this could make or break where we

757
00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 3: go left or right, or forward or backwards or whatever.

758
00:40:09,080 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 3: So I knew it was really crucial to give you

759
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,200
Speaker 3: an idea. The super Bowl that year got fifty three million.

760
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:16,759
Speaker 3: Now it gets one hundred and twenty six or seven million,

761
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,480
Speaker 3: but that gives you and we're ninety million, so that

762
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:23,120
Speaker 3: gives you an idea. The how many people watch it,

763
00:40:23,160 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: and it was worldwide, it wasn't just the US. But

764
00:40:26,560 --> 00:40:30,520
Speaker 3: I knew for me personally that I thought it could

765
00:40:30,560 --> 00:40:35,799
Speaker 3: help change things for the future. President Obama was twelve

766
00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:38,840
Speaker 3: years old. He told me how much that match affected

767
00:40:38,880 --> 00:40:42,680
Speaker 3: him as a child. He raised two young girls, and

768
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:45,400
Speaker 3: he made him think for the first time about it.

769
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,719
Speaker 3: And I got all this feedback from people, so I

770
00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,680
Speaker 3: knew it was vital that I win for all these

771
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 3: various reasons. So and I knew people would remember me

772
00:40:57,760 --> 00:41:01,279
Speaker 3: for that. Unfortunately, I think all these other things, but

773
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 3: I knew that's what people and they do. I mean

774
00:41:04,600 --> 00:41:10,920
Speaker 3: especially older people now remember it. Grandchildren every grandchildren still

775
00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:11,840
Speaker 3: do interviews with me.

776
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:18,920
Speaker 1: Yes, But Billy, all you have done is advocated and advocated.

777
00:41:19,080 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 2: You are such a giver.

778
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,040
Speaker 1: You dedicated you honestly, you've dedicated and you're still doing it. Billy,

779
00:41:25,160 --> 00:41:30,600
Speaker 1: you have dedicated your whole entire life to make it

780
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 1: better for people like me.

781
00:41:32,000 --> 00:41:32,839
Speaker 2: What do you do?

782
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:33,960
Speaker 1: Just like that?

783
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: It is a beautiful That's for me too.

784
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:36,719
Speaker 3: I love it.

785
00:41:36,800 --> 00:41:37,960
Speaker 2: This is what you do.

786
00:41:38,120 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 3: Know, it's great to get your cup. It does still

787
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:44,759
Speaker 3: my cup. And okay, I'll tell you what I'm doing

788
00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,160
Speaker 3: for Billy. For me is I'm going back to college.

789
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:49,440
Speaker 2: I love that.

790
00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:55,640
Speaker 3: I had three years at calcay La and I dropped

791
00:41:55,640 --> 00:41:57,279
Speaker 3: out to be number one in the world because I

792
00:41:57,320 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 3: had to get going. I mean just going back to school.

793
00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:03,080
Speaker 3: I mean I was. I was a history major. And

794
00:42:03,280 --> 00:42:06,920
Speaker 3: the whole office is so excited for me, helping me.

795
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:10,239
Speaker 3: Let's get you the books whatever. And I'm reading, of course,

796
00:42:10,239 --> 00:42:11,960
Speaker 3: I'm trying to read. Plus I've got work. I'm like,

797
00:42:12,080 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 3: oh my god, and I love to underline everything with

798
00:42:15,560 --> 00:42:18,120
Speaker 3: my pencil. I'm so bad. I just had, you know,

799
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:20,960
Speaker 3: like five new books arrive because I think I want

800
00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,960
Speaker 3: to talk about Title nine actually in my final paper,

801
00:42:24,520 --> 00:42:27,080
Speaker 3: because I lived it, and I've already been reading books

802
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 3: that don't have things right, and I'm like, oh god,

803
00:42:29,000 --> 00:42:31,080
Speaker 3: I don't know what to do. No, I was there.

804
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:35,480
Speaker 1: It's physically, you.

805
00:42:33,840 --> 00:42:35,680
Speaker 3: Know, and change, and they don't have it right. And

806
00:42:35,719 --> 00:42:37,600
Speaker 3: I'm like, but I lived in this. I need to

807
00:42:37,640 --> 00:42:40,480
Speaker 3: make it right. So I've got a chance to do

808
00:42:41,840 --> 00:42:43,719
Speaker 3: a great thing. Just but I want to finish. I

809
00:42:43,800 --> 00:42:45,239
Speaker 3: like finishing. It's like when you go to net and

810
00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:47,080
Speaker 3: you shake hands, or like when you finish your soccer

811
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:50,879
Speaker 3: game or whatever. There's something about sports. It starts. There's

812
00:42:50,920 --> 00:42:54,520
Speaker 3: that beginning, middle, and end. I don't know. It's fascinating.

813
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,120
Speaker 3: But i feel the same way with graduating. So I'm

814
00:42:57,120 --> 00:43:00,759
Speaker 3: calling it the road to graduation. Good for you, you

815
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:03,239
Speaker 3: try not. I mean, I had three years already, which

816
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,600
Speaker 3: I thought i'd had two years. I had three. So

817
00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 3: by next year I'll be able to graduate, I hope.

818
00:43:09,520 --> 00:43:12,640
Speaker 3: And maybe it'll encourage others to finish it. I don't know.

819
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:15,719
Speaker 3: And whatever your life work is, whatever you want to do,

820
00:43:15,760 --> 00:43:19,279
Speaker 3: the way you want to look at something. But I

821
00:43:19,320 --> 00:43:21,760
Speaker 3: think people underestimate themselves a lot of times.

822
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,040
Speaker 1: I'll be back in just a moment after this brief

823
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:40,960
Speaker 1: message from our sponsors. Well, you are definitely the epitome

824
00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: of showing everyone what is possible, and we are in

825
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:51,560
Speaker 1: such a unique spot in women's sports because you will.

826
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:55,080
Speaker 1: You have allowed us to stand on your shoulders. Right now,

827
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,960
Speaker 1: we're having a very very big splash in women's sports.

828
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:04,240
Speaker 3: Don't get, don't get this is what it's not where

829
00:44:04,320 --> 00:44:05,640
Speaker 3: you want to always stay humble.

830
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:07,560
Speaker 2: Though, yes, it's not where you want to stay.

831
00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:10,320
Speaker 3: Humble, keep because you never you can lose it overnight

832
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,800
Speaker 3: and it takes years. You can build it, and people

833
00:44:13,880 --> 00:44:16,360
Speaker 3: have to remember that it takes years to build it.

834
00:44:16,360 --> 00:44:17,520
Speaker 3: It can go away overnight.

835
00:44:18,040 --> 00:44:19,640
Speaker 2: You said something really.

836
00:44:21,000 --> 00:44:21,920
Speaker 3: Important to me.

837
00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:25,000
Speaker 1: You said, we're clearly not where we want to be,

838
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:28,480
Speaker 1: but we are at a tipping point. And for me,

839
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,640
Speaker 1: I've lived my whole life to see this start happening.

840
00:44:33,920 --> 00:44:39,000
Speaker 1: I know if I had died tomorrow, it's just starting.

841
00:44:39,760 --> 00:44:42,000
Speaker 1: But this is what I've worked for my whole life.

842
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:47,000
Speaker 1: That's true, to help us have.

843
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,560
Speaker 2: More in women's sports.

844
00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:55,040
Speaker 1: Right you have laid the groundwork for this moment and

845
00:44:55,120 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 1: for you to be able to see full stadiums for

846
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:03,120
Speaker 1: you to see pay equity and equality, and it's not

847
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,160
Speaker 1: where we want it to be, but we are making

848
00:45:05,239 --> 00:45:08,879
Speaker 1: a big leap for you to see your life's work.

849
00:45:10,760 --> 00:45:14,760
Speaker 2: In this moment. How does that make you feel?

850
00:45:17,320 --> 00:45:18,960
Speaker 3: I don't really stop and think about it that much

851
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 3: because we got to we have to keep going. I know,

852
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:28,200
Speaker 3: I'm very blessed, but I'm enjoying this because I still

853
00:45:28,239 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 3: have enough energy to keep trying to help it. But

854
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,239
Speaker 3: more importantly, I know it's on its way if we

855
00:45:33,280 --> 00:45:36,000
Speaker 3: don't blow it. But you can blow it, you know

856
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:38,520
Speaker 3: how that is? Yep, you can be in a position

857
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,799
Speaker 3: of winning and you can blow it quickly. So you

858
00:45:43,160 --> 00:45:46,520
Speaker 3: and that's what we learn in sports and for everyday life,

859
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 3: is that we have to and every generation has to

860
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:54,440
Speaker 3: continue it, you know. And what players will come up

861
00:45:54,480 --> 00:45:56,520
Speaker 3: to me, Well, I'll talk about tennis because I know that,

862
00:45:56,560 --> 00:45:58,680
Speaker 3: But they'll come up to me and they'll go, what

863
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:03,160
Speaker 3: should I do? I said, learn the business? For instance,

864
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:05,200
Speaker 3: I say, did you get paid it the last tournament

865
00:46:05,200 --> 00:46:08,640
Speaker 3: you paid played in? Of course I got paid. I said,

866
00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:11,320
Speaker 3: did you go ask the owner of that tournament or

867
00:46:11,400 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 3: promoter of that tournament how he or she or they

868
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 3: did they get this biggest blank on their face, like

869
00:46:17,640 --> 00:46:20,759
Speaker 3: what I said, do you realize they worked the whole

870
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 3: year so you can have this one week tournament and

871
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,080
Speaker 3: they may have lost money, but you got your check.

872
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:33,160
Speaker 3: And they look at me like I never thought of that.

873
00:46:33,520 --> 00:46:35,359
Speaker 3: I said, well, I'd like you to think about it,

874
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:38,080
Speaker 3: because maybe someday you will own a tournament. You don't know.

875
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:41,399
Speaker 3: Larry and I own tournaments. We started in nineteen sixty eight.

876
00:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,040
Speaker 3: We did an eight person tournament Oakland Coliseum. We made money.

877
00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:49,360
Speaker 3: Larry's in law school. Everything. Larry thought everything was great.

878
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:52,759
Speaker 3: Second time we'd do the same thing, it rained, it

879
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 3: was horrible. We lost money. He woke up and said,

880
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,560
Speaker 3: I don't know anything, instead of thinking you know everything

881
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 3: when you're young. It was hysterical. But the different the

882
00:47:02,680 --> 00:47:05,520
Speaker 3: reason I was able. I had this vision anyway as

883
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:10,280
Speaker 3: a young girl to change things. But owning tournaments taught

884
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:13,399
Speaker 3: me so much. I'll give you a perfect example. First,

885
00:47:13,440 --> 00:47:16,480
Speaker 3: I'll say three things. Ed Woollard who used to be

886
00:47:16,560 --> 00:47:19,440
Speaker 3: CEO of DuPont he's passed on now, but he and

887
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:24,880
Speaker 3: I spent three years trying to figure out what the

888
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,520
Speaker 3: people that have inner success, happiness and outer do well.

889
00:47:29,840 --> 00:47:32,640
Speaker 3: What do they have. So we ended up with these

890
00:47:32,640 --> 00:47:34,479
Speaker 3: three things, and they don't have to be in this order.

891
00:47:35,280 --> 00:47:41,280
Speaker 3: Relationships are everything. Number two to learn and to keep learning,

892
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:45,160
Speaker 3: how to learn, keep learning and keep learning how to learn.

893
00:47:45,680 --> 00:47:49,200
Speaker 3: And number three, to be a problem solver. And then

894
00:47:49,239 --> 00:47:50,560
Speaker 3: I had an innovator.

895
00:47:50,160 --> 00:47:52,279
Speaker 2: Because yes, of course you did.

896
00:47:52,520 --> 00:47:53,960
Speaker 3: Those are the three things, and they can be in

897
00:47:54,000 --> 00:47:56,000
Speaker 3: any order you want. But I will guarantee you if

898
00:47:56,000 --> 00:48:01,040
Speaker 3: you go through your day, you'll touch those things every

899
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:02,880
Speaker 3: single day of your life in some way or another.

900
00:48:03,719 --> 00:48:06,600
Speaker 3: Let's go to nineteen seventy two. I won the US Open.

901
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 3: I'm in the media and I said to the media,

902
00:48:14,719 --> 00:48:17,120
Speaker 3: I was so angry. I made ten thousand dollars this

903
00:48:17,200 --> 00:48:20,480
Speaker 3: winning and Nastasi won twenty five thousand. I was furious

904
00:48:20,480 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 3: we had the same amount of people watching us. I said,

905
00:48:24,800 --> 00:48:26,840
Speaker 3: you know what, I don't think the girls, the women

906
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:28,880
Speaker 3: are going to come. We're not going to We're not

907
00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,960
Speaker 3: going to come back next year unless we get equal money.

908
00:48:33,120 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 3: And then I go to myself inside. I go, oh, Billy,

909
00:48:35,680 --> 00:48:37,600
Speaker 3: you've just blown it. You haven't talked to the women

910
00:48:37,640 --> 00:48:41,080
Speaker 3: about this. What are you doing. You've made the biggest mistake.

911
00:48:41,640 --> 00:48:45,080
Speaker 3: But because Larry and I own tournaments, and because I

912
00:48:45,200 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 3: had good relationships with different people and different sponsors, I

913
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,960
Speaker 3: went to the different potential sponsors and said, would you

914
00:48:54,160 --> 00:48:58,440
Speaker 3: together individually or would you put up the difference in

915
00:48:58,480 --> 00:49:00,880
Speaker 3: the prize money so women can have equal prizeman in

916
00:49:00,960 --> 00:49:04,640
Speaker 3: next year at the U's Open, and Bristol Myers came

917
00:49:04,719 --> 00:49:07,000
Speaker 3: up to me and said, yes, we'll do the whole thing.

918
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:08,840
Speaker 3: In those days, it wasn't very much. It was like

919
00:49:08,880 --> 00:49:11,160
Speaker 3: fifty five thousand dollars and seventy three That was a

920
00:49:11,200 --> 00:49:14,200
Speaker 3: lot of money. And I said, are you really? But

921
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:17,040
Speaker 3: why did that happen? Because we had the relationship. Yes,

922
00:49:17,360 --> 00:49:20,400
Speaker 3: Marvin Coslow was a great guy from Bristol Myers. I

923
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 3: know he helped make it happen. And because I had

924
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:26,279
Speaker 3: said in the media, oh, it stinks that we don't

925
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,719
Speaker 3: get equal money, they said, you know what you said,

926
00:49:28,719 --> 00:49:31,280
Speaker 3: it stinks. It's about money. I keep trying to explain

927
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:34,200
Speaker 3: to the players and Jared, you, guys, it's about money.

928
00:49:34,239 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 3: You have to you have to find a way to

929
00:49:36,719 --> 00:49:40,200
Speaker 3: get the money. And so because of these relationships, I

930
00:49:40,280 --> 00:49:43,160
Speaker 3: was able. That's the reason that happened. We had we

931
00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:48,640
Speaker 3: were like almost friends, and I don't think most athletes

932
00:49:48,760 --> 00:49:53,000
Speaker 3: understand it. Understand the business, understand what a sponsor wants. Yes,

933
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 3: understands what the people that are coming to watch want.

934
00:49:57,280 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 3: You know. It is another thing. It gets me crazy,

935
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,400
Speaker 3: Hennis particularly. You know how we all have our headsets on,

936
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,400
Speaker 3: which I understand they're making money. I want them to

937
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:08,320
Speaker 3: have them on. But when you get to the court,

938
00:50:08,360 --> 00:50:10,640
Speaker 3: to the outside of the court, and you can keep

939
00:50:10,640 --> 00:50:13,040
Speaker 3: them on for a little bit to stand there. But

940
00:50:13,560 --> 00:50:16,920
Speaker 3: remember we are there for the audience and the players

941
00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 3: today the athletes today think the audience is there for them. No,

942
00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:26,760
Speaker 3: we're the entertainers. Our job is to make them happy,

943
00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:29,919
Speaker 3: not for them to make us happy. And I think

944
00:50:29,960 --> 00:50:32,200
Speaker 3: players today they're always saying, yeah, I want to hear it,

945
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:34,400
Speaker 3: I want to hear it here. You know, they're with

946
00:50:34,520 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 3: their hands and I'm like, you know what, you guys

947
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,439
Speaker 3: were there for them. Our greatness is to give back,

948
00:50:40,600 --> 00:50:42,880
Speaker 3: to give to the audience and make it. You know,

949
00:50:42,920 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 3: we're entertainers to give to the entertainers should get back

950
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:50,040
Speaker 3: all the time. Absolutely how much we get when we're playing.

951
00:50:50,680 --> 00:50:52,319
Speaker 3: Can you hear the audience going on? That's when you

952
00:50:52,760 --> 00:50:55,600
Speaker 3: kick the ball for an hour ninety minutes. That is

953
00:50:55,719 --> 00:50:58,160
Speaker 3: a privilege to be a pro athlete. It's about we

954
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:01,960
Speaker 3: instead of I. When you listen to interviews, see how

955
00:51:01,960 --> 00:51:05,360
Speaker 3: many times you hear word I we us the team.

956
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,600
Speaker 3: Every player's taught to say the team. That's they go, oh,

957
00:51:08,760 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 3: the team, you know, and thanks and thanks for coming

958
00:51:10,640 --> 00:51:13,239
Speaker 3: out to watch me. Every player it's taught that. Every

959
00:51:13,280 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 3: athlete's taught to say that. But the sincerity of it,

960
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 3: do you really understand the ramifications? Do you understand how

961
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:22,560
Speaker 3: you can take the world forward and make it a

962
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,000
Speaker 3: better place? And you know those are the things to

963
00:51:25,080 --> 00:51:28,800
Speaker 3: get me crazy. No, it's like talk about the other players,

964
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,640
Speaker 3: talk about your owners, talk about them, you know, they

965
00:51:32,680 --> 00:51:34,480
Speaker 3: talk about the fans. They always include the fans, but

966
00:51:34,520 --> 00:51:37,520
Speaker 3: they don't really I always wanted to do something special.

967
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:39,719
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think it's important to talk about

968
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:43,080
Speaker 3: other athletes, not yourself all the time. Leadership with empathy

969
00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:45,040
Speaker 3: is the greatest leadership.

970
00:51:45,120 --> 00:51:46,360
Speaker 2: I think that's heavy.

971
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:49,840
Speaker 1: I love that for someone who has done so much

972
00:51:51,640 --> 00:51:55,279
Speaker 1: and pave the way for so many What is the

973
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:59,719
Speaker 1: legacy you want to leave behind, Billy? Like, what do

974
00:51:59,760 --> 00:52:01,359
Speaker 1: you do you want to be known for?

975
00:52:03,200 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 3: I don't think about that. I think legacy is what

976
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:08,800
Speaker 3: other people think about you, But it's really the contributions

977
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 3: you make as you live on this earth that really,

978
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 3: I think define you. I think that's the accomplishments and

979
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:20,279
Speaker 3: what you give is really what defines you. But I

980
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:24,279
Speaker 3: think legacy, I never think about legacy like that. I

981
00:52:24,320 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 3: think legacy is really what people decide about you. I think,

982
00:52:27,920 --> 00:52:28,560
Speaker 3: don't you think that?

983
00:52:28,560 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 2: That's very fair?

984
00:52:29,320 --> 00:52:33,080
Speaker 1: And I've never heard anyone frame it that way.

985
00:52:33,520 --> 00:52:36,400
Speaker 3: I think it's the contributions. Really, that's the what we

986
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:39,959
Speaker 3: contribute to make this world a better place, and.

987
00:52:39,880 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 1: You've dedicated your entire life to that, and I am

988
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:45,120
Speaker 1: so grateful.

989
00:52:45,360 --> 00:52:47,080
Speaker 3: It's been fun to sit.

990
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:52,360
Speaker 1: And be able to have this beautiful conversation with you.

991
00:52:52,560 --> 00:52:55,160
Speaker 1: I am grateful I get to sit on your board

992
00:52:55,200 --> 00:52:58,840
Speaker 1: and represent you and continue to carry the torch to

993
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:03,360
Speaker 1: lead the way in building a better future for women

994
00:53:03,440 --> 00:53:05,600
Speaker 1: in sports and specially queer women.

995
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:09,560
Speaker 2: Thank you, Billy, Thanks.

996
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,160
Speaker 3: For being Thanks, Yeah, thanks for earning on. I love

997
00:53:12,160 --> 00:53:14,839
Speaker 3: your show. I'm glad you have it. This will help too.

998
00:53:15,320 --> 00:53:17,399
Speaker 3: Every time a woman athlete has the show, it makes

999
00:53:17,440 --> 00:53:19,800
Speaker 3: a difference, and you're going to make a huge difference.

1000
00:53:19,840 --> 00:53:22,799
Speaker 3: You already have. Thank you, but anyway, I know we're

1001
00:53:22,800 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 3: in good shape if we have people like you.

1002
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:26,120
Speaker 2: Thanks Billy, that means a lot.

1003
00:53:26,560 --> 00:53:29,839
Speaker 1: Thanks, Thanks everyone for tuning in, and we will see

1004
00:53:29,840 --> 00:53:31,839
Speaker 1: you next week on Wide Open.

1005
00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 2: With Ashlin Harris.

1006
00:53:34,000 --> 00:53:37,920
Speaker 1: Wide Open with Ashlin Harris is an iHeart women's sports production.

1007
00:53:38,520 --> 00:53:39,520
Speaker 2: You can find us on.

1008
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:44,000
Speaker 1: The iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

1009
00:53:44,360 --> 00:53:50,360
Speaker 1: Our producers are Carmen Borca, Coreo, Emily Maronov, and Lucy Jones.

1010
00:53:50,680 --> 00:53:57,000
Speaker 1: Production assistants from Malia Aguidello. Our executive producers are Jesse Katz,

1011
00:53:57,320 --> 00:53:59,200
Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder.

1012
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:00,560
Speaker 2: Are at are

1013
00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,600
Speaker 1: Jenny Kaplan and Emily Rudder, and I'm your host, Ashlyn

1014
00:54:04,640 --> 00:54:05,080
Speaker 1: Harris