WEBVTT - Hell and Gone Murder Line: Gail Vaught Part 2 0:00:08.245 --> 0:00:12.925 School of Humans. 0:00:13.685 --> 0:00:17.805 On October seventeenth, nineteen eighty, just after ten am, the 0:00:17.845 --> 0:00:21.165 body of Gael Vault was found in Washington County, Arkansas, 0:00:21.445 --> 0:00:23.085 near an area called Blake Weddington. 0:00:24.125 --> 0:00:25.885 Gail was just twenty one years old. 0:00:26.045 --> 0:00:28.845 She worked with mostly male colleagues on a road crew 0:00:28.965 --> 0:00:33.045 building Highway seventy one in Fayetbule. Gail was wearing a 0:00:33.045 --> 0:00:36.685 flannel shirt and a blue Michelin jacket. I know I 0:00:36.805 --> 0:00:39.725 mentioned this last week, and I'm mentioning it again because 0:00:39.765 --> 0:00:42.525 what Gail was wearing and the order that everything happened 0:00:42.525 --> 0:00:47.285 in will become crucial in this murder investigation. Gail's legs 0:00:47.285 --> 0:00:50.205 were open. She was naked from the waist down except 0:00:50.245 --> 0:00:54.925 for a pair of torn and filthy white socks. Last week, 0:00:54.965 --> 0:00:58.845 we explored three main theories. One that Gail's murder could 0:00:58.845 --> 0:01:01.085 have been connected to drug dealing, to some kind of 0:01:01.125 --> 0:01:05.245 Ozark mafia, or possibly to a drug dealer who was 0:01:05.245 --> 0:01:08.285 trying to send a message to her boyfriend Ray Foreman 0:01:08.445 --> 0:01:11.965 by targeting Gail. The second theory was that Gail was 0:01:11.965 --> 0:01:16.005 the victim of domestic violence that on Thursday night, something 0:01:16.085 --> 0:01:20.205 happened between Gail's boyfriend Ray and Gail something that spiraled 0:01:20.245 --> 0:01:23.885 out of control and ended with her dead. The third 0:01:24.205 --> 0:01:27.885 was that someone else, someone the police overlooked, maybe even 0:01:27.925 --> 0:01:31.045 a stranger, raped and killed Gail. 0:01:31.445 --> 0:01:32.525 One of the main. 0:01:32.405 --> 0:01:35.805 Questions we talked about last week was the condom, the 0:01:35.885 --> 0:01:40.045 brand Tickled Fancy, that was found near Gail's body. A 0:01:40.085 --> 0:01:43.085 lot of people have wondered if Gail was actually sexually assaulted, 0:01:43.205 --> 0:01:45.405 or if that condom was a red herring, if it 0:01:45.445 --> 0:01:48.765 could have come from someone else, maybe some teenagers who 0:01:48.885 --> 0:01:52.685 used that area for parking. This week, we're going to 0:01:52.765 --> 0:01:55.685 do a deep dive into the Gail Vault case and 0:01:55.805 --> 0:01:58.285 see if we can answer the question of what really 0:01:58.325 --> 0:02:01.725 happened to her in those woods on October seventeenth, nineteen 0:02:01.765 --> 0:02:06.005 eighty I'm Catherine Townsend. For the past five years of 0:02:06.045 --> 0:02:09.525 working on my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned 0:02:09.525 --> 0:02:11.765 that there is no such thing as a small town 0:02:11.805 --> 0:02:15.125 where murder never happens. If you have a case you'd 0:02:15.165 --> 0:02:17.685 like me to look into, you can reach out to 0:02:17.765 --> 0:02:20.245 us at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven 0:02:20.285 --> 0:02:24.085 eight seven four four six one four five. That's six 0:02:24.165 --> 0:02:28.685 seven eight seven four four six one four five. This 0:02:28.965 --> 0:03:00.965 is Helen Gone Murder line. We've been looking at the 0:03:01.005 --> 0:03:04.525 Gael Vaux case file. We filed a Foyer request. We 0:03:04.605 --> 0:03:07.485 wanted to understand more about each of these three theories, 0:03:08.085 --> 0:03:12.125 so our research assistant Amy reached out to Gail's sister, Teresa. 0:03:13.165 --> 0:03:15.565 As we said last week, Teresa has been working with 0:03:15.605 --> 0:03:18.685 a private investigator named Marty for the past few years, 0:03:19.205 --> 0:03:21.525 and Marty was the person who first talked to me 0:03:21.525 --> 0:03:25.245 about this case. Teresa and her sister Gail both came 0:03:25.245 --> 0:03:28.645 from the small town of mountain Berg. Even though Gail's 0:03:28.685 --> 0:03:32.085 parents have passed away, Teresa has still not given up 0:03:32.125 --> 0:03:34.885 hope she might be able to find answers and one 0:03:34.965 --> 0:03:36.885 day to understand what happened to her sister. 0:03:37.325 --> 0:03:40.125 She went to two year college and played basketball. Who 0:03:40.205 --> 0:03:43.405 is really big into sports. She didn't have a lot 0:03:43.445 --> 0:03:46.365 of boyfriends, but she had a lot of guy friends. 0:03:46.405 --> 0:03:46.605 You know. 0:03:47.005 --> 0:03:51.525 She hung out more with me guys at friends than 0:03:51.605 --> 0:03:54.885 she did girls. And I think it was Coachy was 0:03:54.925 --> 0:03:57.845 so tall, you know, she was like six foot one that. 0:03:57.885 --> 0:04:03.445 She had a very outgoing personality, made friends easily. She 0:04:03.605 --> 0:04:07.445 was a free spirit. She was kind, you know. She 0:04:07.525 --> 0:04:11.445 lived in Sayedville and I lived between Van Buren and 0:04:11.565 --> 0:04:15.845 own Cropper County, and she used to be at our 0:04:15.885 --> 0:04:18.645 house all the time that you know, she had just 0:04:18.725 --> 0:04:20.805 kind of once she moved it up here to Saydville, 0:04:21.005 --> 0:04:25.045 she found a different circle of friends. I always felt 0:04:25.085 --> 0:04:28.205 like her friends were the friends that if Gail wasn't 0:04:28.245 --> 0:04:31.885 their friends, that they wouldn't have any friends. He was 0:04:31.965 --> 0:04:34.805 just kind of everybody better. You know, most of her 0:04:34.885 --> 0:04:39.685 friends were not the most outstanding people that you know, 0:04:39.725 --> 0:04:41.365 they needed a friend and that was her. 0:04:42.845 --> 0:04:45.605 Like pretty much everyone who talked to us about Gail, 0:04:45.965 --> 0:04:48.965 Teresa told us about what a nice and wonderful person 0:04:49.005 --> 0:04:52.845 her sister was. However, she did say that because Gail 0:04:53.045 --> 0:04:56.285 was so nice, sometimes Gail would befriend people who, it 0:04:56.285 --> 0:04:58.965 seems like Teresa believed might not have been the best 0:04:59.005 --> 0:05:03.005 influences on Gail. Teresa said she didn't know Ray Forman, 0:05:03.085 --> 0:05:04.285 Gail's boyfriend, that well. 0:05:05.965 --> 0:05:08.805 She was dating a guy by the name of Ray 0:05:08.885 --> 0:05:11.645 Forman at the time. He had been at the house 0:05:11.685 --> 0:05:15.645 a couple of times, and the last time was probably 0:05:15.645 --> 0:05:19.925 about two weeks before he was murdered, and they had 0:05:19.965 --> 0:05:22.925 picked up my son, which he was three at the time, 0:05:23.365 --> 0:05:27.045 and took him to the Fort Smith's Fair. It was 0:05:27.125 --> 0:05:29.045 kind of late when they got home, and I offered 0:05:29.085 --> 0:05:31.205 them to the Saturday night you know, where he had 0:05:31.245 --> 0:05:33.885 spend the night and then go back the next morning. 0:05:33.925 --> 0:05:36.125 And it was like, oh, my race got to work, 0:05:36.245 --> 0:05:38.645 you know, this kind of stuff. But he was a 0:05:38.725 --> 0:05:41.205 nice looking man. But he was very quiet, you know, 0:05:42.085 --> 0:05:44.405 and that just made been his personality. I don't know, 0:05:45.005 --> 0:05:47.565 never any mention of any kind of issues or problems, 0:05:47.605 --> 0:05:50.205 but we didn't speak very often, you know that then 0:05:50.325 --> 0:05:51.925 we had had a seal zone. 0:05:52.365 --> 0:05:54.725 We talked last week about the fact that there have 0:05:54.885 --> 0:05:57.765 been allegations of domestic violence with Ray and his ex 0:05:57.805 --> 0:06:00.845 wife Lynn. Ray split up with Lynn a few months 0:06:00.845 --> 0:06:04.085 before he started dating Gail. Teresa said that to her knowledge, 0:06:04.165 --> 0:06:06.405 Gail and Ray were very happy and she was not 0:06:06.525 --> 0:06:09.965 aware of any problems in their relationship or any domestic violence. 0:06:12.845 --> 0:06:16.525 Teresa talked about her frustration with the police investigation, and 0:06:16.565 --> 0:06:19.805 I really sympathize with us, by the way, because listeners 0:06:19.805 --> 0:06:23.005 of this podcast know that so many of the cases 0:06:23.045 --> 0:06:26.685 that we cover, we see the same pattern. The story 0:06:26.725 --> 0:06:29.565 of what happened to Gail has changed over the years. 0:06:30.405 --> 0:06:33.045 It seemed like to Teresa there was information that was 0:06:33.085 --> 0:06:36.245 being added and being taken away After a while, she 0:06:36.325 --> 0:06:38.445 said she really wasn't sure what to believe. 0:06:38.845 --> 0:06:42.165 The story changus was to please them. What time as 0:06:42.365 --> 0:06:44.245 the time serio as you're talking about. 0:06:45.285 --> 0:06:49.045 As an example of what Teresa defined as this changing story, 0:06:49.245 --> 0:06:51.845 she said that early in the investigation, one of the 0:06:51.845 --> 0:06:54.165 deputies who was at the crime scene told her they 0:06:54.165 --> 0:06:58.125 found white chipped paint near Gail's body, but there's nothing 0:06:58.165 --> 0:07:00.925 in the record about that. There's nothing about white paint ships. 0:07:01.565 --> 0:07:04.125 Later there was a rumor about orange paint ships being 0:07:04.165 --> 0:07:07.525 found near the body. That's nowhere in the official record either. 0:07:08.245 --> 0:07:10.685 Teresa also talked about Ray Foreman's alibi. 0:07:11.365 --> 0:07:14.725 The police tell us that Ray had gone to a 0:07:14.805 --> 0:07:19.605 party with about thirty people and that he had a 0:07:19.605 --> 0:07:24.205 lot of alibis that as time has gone passed from 0:07:24.245 --> 0:07:28.005 the police, who has changed to where he was out 0:07:28.085 --> 0:07:30.205 running around doing kind of dope deel. 0:07:35.605 --> 0:07:38.765 Teresa also discussed something that I mentioned in last week's episode. 0:07:38.765 --> 0:07:42.205 She talked about Ray's alibi and about that weird alarm 0:07:42.245 --> 0:07:45.365 clock story. Remember, Ray said he was out all night 0:07:45.365 --> 0:07:48.085 with his friend Jody, someone who we know Gail did 0:07:48.085 --> 0:07:51.325 not like. He claimed that he borrowed her jeep and 0:07:51.365 --> 0:07:54.365 that she just allowed him to do that. And as 0:07:54.405 --> 0:07:56.965 I said last week, I do find that unbelievable. Everyone 0:07:56.965 --> 0:07:59.525 who knew Gail said she never gave her car to anyone. 0:07:59.605 --> 0:08:02.165 She didn't want to walk. She was always the one 0:08:02.205 --> 0:08:04.765 to drive her vehicle. So the idea that she would 0:08:04.805 --> 0:08:07.925 give her vehicle to her boyfriend to allow him to 0:08:07.925 --> 0:08:09.685 go out and make drug deals and just be fine 0:08:09.725 --> 0:08:11.805 with that, knowing she had to go pick her paycheck 0:08:11.885 --> 0:08:14.645 up the next morning seems very unlikely, but that is 0:08:14.645 --> 0:08:18.645 his story. The next morning, he drove Jody home and 0:08:18.645 --> 0:08:21.125 then he drove back to the apartment that he shared 0:08:21.205 --> 0:08:24.525 with Gail, and he still had her jeep. Ray claimed 0:08:24.565 --> 0:08:27.765 that he parked the jeep, and he said that he 0:08:27.885 --> 0:08:30.525 got into his own truck. He got into his vehicle 0:08:30.685 --> 0:08:33.885 and slept there. This was very odd, and he said 0:08:33.925 --> 0:08:36.725 something else that was odd. He said that he saw 0:08:36.765 --> 0:08:39.125 an alarm clock on the dashboard of his truck and 0:08:39.165 --> 0:08:42.365 that the truck door was a little bit ajar. Teresa 0:08:42.405 --> 0:08:44.365 called out the weirdness of this story. 0:08:44.925 --> 0:08:47.925 There's something in there about an alarm clock that he 0:08:48.045 --> 0:08:51.285 decided gale up maddenning and put it in his truck. 0:08:51.365 --> 0:08:53.445 But the bottom line is, you know, on a Thursday 0:08:53.525 --> 0:08:57.045 night where all of this SAT's happened, I can't feel 0:08:57.085 --> 0:08:58.325 like that was a coincidence. 0:08:59.325 --> 0:09:01.765 Again, this is another question we need to answer. We 0:09:01.805 --> 0:09:04.245 need to figure out exactly what Ray was talking about. 0:09:05.485 --> 0:09:07.365 We need to know if he meant that it was 0:09:07.405 --> 0:09:09.285 a some kind of a clock that was in the 0:09:09.325 --> 0:09:11.445 truck or it was an actual alarm clock that got 0:09:11.445 --> 0:09:11.965 put out. 0:09:11.845 --> 0:09:13.285 There, because that was bizarre. 0:09:14.125 --> 0:09:17.645 What if Ray slept in the truck, not just because 0:09:17.645 --> 0:09:19.605 he was hungover, but because he did not want to 0:09:19.605 --> 0:09:22.485 go in that house and face Gail. What if while 0:09:22.485 --> 0:09:24.605 he was sleeping, she walked out of the house and 0:09:24.645 --> 0:09:28.045 that's why she had no shoes on, she approached him 0:09:28.045 --> 0:09:30.525 in the truck, and they got into a knockdown, drag 0:09:30.565 --> 0:09:33.325 out argument right there. I'm going to come back to 0:09:33.365 --> 0:09:36.525 that later. For now, let's go through the rest of 0:09:36.605 --> 0:09:40.765 Ray's albi Amy and I discussed the fact that right 0:09:40.885 --> 0:09:45.485 before Gail left home, she was preparing dinner. According to Teresa, 0:09:45.565 --> 0:09:47.325 Gail was cooking beans and cornbread. 0:09:47.525 --> 0:09:51.445 He had started cooking beans and corn bread and stuff, 0:09:51.605 --> 0:09:54.965 and then somebody turned the stoves off and there weren't 0:09:54.965 --> 0:09:55.805 com points to Cook. 0:09:56.285 --> 0:09:59.485 We looked at the autopsy report and there weren't any 0:09:59.565 --> 0:10:02.845 stomach contents listed. I don't know if that's because of 0:10:02.845 --> 0:10:06.325 Gail's injuries or if it was something that just wasn't noted, 0:10:06.365 --> 0:10:08.525 but it would have been great to know if any 0:10:08.525 --> 0:10:13.245 food was in her stomach at that time. Teresa said 0:10:13.405 --> 0:10:16.845 that she believed Ray had something to do with Gail's murder. 0:10:17.525 --> 0:10:20.245 She said that she believed that something started that night 0:10:20.525 --> 0:10:24.725 before Ray left the house, something that potentially set him off, 0:10:25.125 --> 0:10:28.245 Which brings us to another mystery in the case, because remember, 0:10:28.325 --> 0:10:31.405 Gail was found wearing only a pair of socks. The 0:10:31.485 --> 0:10:34.445 socks were dirty on the bottom and they had holes 0:10:34.485 --> 0:10:36.805 in them, and police. 0:10:36.405 --> 0:10:38.485 Said they never did find Gail's shoes. 0:10:39.605 --> 0:10:43.085 Now, Teresa believes that that means Gail was kidnapped from 0:10:43.085 --> 0:10:44.725 her apartment, possibly at gunpoint. 0:10:46.045 --> 0:10:48.805 You know, I'm just surmising from every little bit of 0:10:48.845 --> 0:10:51.885 piece of God. I can't say for sure that I 0:10:51.925 --> 0:10:57.045 feel like it he right killed her, that I feel 0:10:57.085 --> 0:10:59.845 in my heart that he knew that it was going 0:10:59.925 --> 0:11:03.245 to happen and that he didn't do anything to stop it. 0:11:03.405 --> 0:11:06.325 But you know, he may have been part of it. 0:11:06.445 --> 0:11:08.605 I don't know, but I do know I do have 0:11:08.685 --> 0:11:11.325 that feeling that he knew what was going on and 0:11:11.405 --> 0:11:15.205 he tracked her in her apartment. You know, if he 0:11:15.245 --> 0:11:18.925 didn't do it, then he helped set her up and 0:11:19.005 --> 0:11:22.525 where it happened. I'm sorry, I know there has to 0:11:22.605 --> 0:11:26.645 be difficult to hear. Well, you know, I lived with 0:11:26.725 --> 0:11:31.845 it for you know, decades, and you know it's kind 0:11:31.885 --> 0:11:35.245 of like you get numbed and stuff. That's right. Criminals 0:11:35.325 --> 0:11:37.845 can be so evil is because they're so used to 0:11:37.885 --> 0:11:40.525 seeing it. And I was the nurse, so you know, 0:11:40.565 --> 0:11:43.525 I've kind of hardened to a lot of that. So 0:11:43.565 --> 0:11:46.565 it's fine. You know, if this is going to find closure, 0:11:47.845 --> 0:11:48.765 it's not a big deal. 0:11:56.925 --> 0:11:58.925 One of the theories work exploring is the idea this 0:11:58.965 --> 0:12:01.045 could have been connected to drug dealing. So we need 0:12:01.085 --> 0:12:04.565 to know how big, how serious a drug user was 0:12:04.645 --> 0:12:08.925 Gail and how big a drug dealer was her boyfriend Ray. 0:12:09.685 --> 0:12:12.725 Teresa clarified that she said her sister did smoke pot 0:12:12.805 --> 0:12:15.605 quite a bit. She said she did marijuana and did 0:12:15.605 --> 0:12:18.485 ask it occasionally. This was pretty much the same thing 0:12:18.525 --> 0:12:21.645 that we heard from Gail's friends. Gail was not involved 0:12:21.645 --> 0:12:24.965 in heavy drugs or heavy drug dealing. The sheriff of 0:12:25.125 --> 0:12:27.845 Washington County at the time of Gail's murder was a 0:12:27.885 --> 0:12:31.525 man named Herb Marshall. Even though Herb left office shortly 0:12:31.565 --> 0:12:34.565 after Gail's body was found, he has always said this 0:12:34.605 --> 0:12:36.765 is a case that has stayed with him and that 0:12:36.845 --> 0:12:39.205 he wishes he could have gotten justice for Gail and 0:12:39.245 --> 0:12:47.405 for her family. A few years ago, Sheriff Marshall told Marty, 0:12:47.485 --> 0:12:50.525 the private investigator who first brought us the case, that 0:12:50.605 --> 0:12:53.365 he Herb believed that Gail was kidnapped from her home. 0:12:54.405 --> 0:12:56.325 I wanted to know if he still felt that way. 0:12:56.845 --> 0:12:59.085 Herb is now in his eighties. He admits that his 0:12:59.165 --> 0:13:01.405 memory is not what it once was, and on top 0:13:01.405 --> 0:13:04.765 of that, he's been having some serious health issues. But 0:13:05.045 --> 0:13:07.045 he's still wants to help us in any way that 0:13:07.085 --> 0:13:09.885 he can. He wants to figure out what happened to 0:13:09.885 --> 0:13:13.125 Gayle Vaught. It's clear that the idea of this unsolved 0:13:13.205 --> 0:13:16.365 murder in his county has tormented him over the years. 0:13:16.885 --> 0:13:20.205 I just got out of a pill a week ago, 0:13:20.325 --> 0:13:23.365 and mainly I'm not in that great in shape, but 0:13:23.445 --> 0:13:25.525 I'll do what I can for you. 0:13:26.605 --> 0:13:30.085 Herb said he believed in his gut that Ray had 0:13:30.125 --> 0:13:33.005 something to do with Gail's death. He also said he 0:13:33.085 --> 0:13:35.805 believed she had been forced out of her home, possibly 0:13:35.845 --> 0:13:38.605 at gunpoint. Herb said he believed this based on the 0:13:38.605 --> 0:13:40.605 fact there was the food on the stove that Theresa 0:13:40.645 --> 0:13:44.285 mentioned and that there was food in the oven. This 0:13:44.405 --> 0:13:48.405 made police believe that Gayle's time of death happened sometime 0:13:48.525 --> 0:13:53.285 late on Thursday night. The former sheriff, Herb Marshall explained 0:13:53.445 --> 0:13:56.605 what actually killed Gail and we weren't wrong. 0:13:56.765 --> 0:13:58.205 Her death was horrific. 0:14:02.645 --> 0:14:06.325 They made it try to look like from which she 0:14:06.605 --> 0:14:11.645 wasn't at the grime and saying had actually what killed her. 0:14:12.245 --> 0:14:15.565 And she had a bullet hole right behind her right 0:14:15.645 --> 0:14:19.725 at ere. I believe it's a twenty two caliper which 0:14:19.765 --> 0:14:25.525 she hid, that bullingncked her unconscious, but whoever shot herself 0:14:25.605 --> 0:14:26.245 that killer. 0:14:27.045 --> 0:14:29.005 Gail had been shot in the head with a twenty 0:14:29.085 --> 0:14:32.965 two caliber bullet, but the bullet fragmented in her skull 0:14:33.365 --> 0:14:36.365 and so it did not penetrate her brain, so this 0:14:36.525 --> 0:14:41.165 was not a fatal wound. Sometime during all this, Gail's 0:14:41.245 --> 0:14:45.645 killer took off her jeans and underwear. We know based 0:14:45.685 --> 0:14:48.605 on the fecal matter that was in her underwear that 0:14:48.845 --> 0:14:52.365 she was dead or dying when this was done. And 0:14:52.405 --> 0:14:55.325 then at some point during this horrific sexual assault, her 0:14:55.405 --> 0:14:57.885 killer realized that Gail was not dead. 0:14:59.685 --> 0:15:03.365 She apparently was a fading in the back behind the cheek. 0:15:04.445 --> 0:15:08.645 When the cheap backed over her, said Kilder was a 0:15:09.445 --> 0:15:14.045 She bled to death and eternally from her splain the 0:15:14.125 --> 0:15:19.485 splain or some portion in her she actually bled to 0:15:19.525 --> 0:15:21.045 death internally. 0:15:21.965 --> 0:15:26.125 So the killer got in his vehicle and backed over her. 0:15:26.725 --> 0:15:30.125 When the vehicle backed over her, it caused catastrophic injuries 0:15:30.125 --> 0:15:34.365 to her pelvis, a lot of her internal organs. Basically, 0:15:34.805 --> 0:15:37.965 the car tore apart the bottom half of her body 0:15:38.045 --> 0:15:39.325 and led to her bleeding to. 0:15:39.285 --> 0:15:40.765 Death in the woods alone. 0:15:41.725 --> 0:15:44.165 It's one of the most horrific murders I've ever read 0:15:44.205 --> 0:15:49.685 about herb said he was focused on Ray because mainly 0:15:49.725 --> 0:15:52.165 of the drug dealing and the bad associations he had 0:15:52.165 --> 0:15:54.805 with him. He said he believed that when he talked 0:15:54.805 --> 0:15:57.365 to Ray, Ray was on the cusp of confessing to something. 0:15:57.805 --> 0:16:01.765 In my mind, I had him at one time. 0:16:02.485 --> 0:16:04.925 He couldn't answer the question of what the motive would 0:16:04.965 --> 0:16:05.245 have been. 0:16:05.805 --> 0:16:09.645 I'm not sure of picking event I have a dozen things. 0:16:10.125 --> 0:16:13.285 He could have been drugs because he had her on 0:16:13.325 --> 0:16:18.045 some drugs. He's Rudi him sale. 0:16:21.405 --> 0:16:24.525 I know that smoking pot was a much bigger deal, 0:16:24.605 --> 0:16:28.045 especially in Arkansas in nineteen eighty, but so far I 0:16:28.085 --> 0:16:32.005 haven't seen anything other than some bragging that happened years 0:16:32.085 --> 0:16:34.765 later by a couple of guys who were in jail 0:16:35.405 --> 0:16:38.245 and might have had their own reasons for wanting to 0:16:38.285 --> 0:16:42.005 seem like dangerous drug dealers. I haven't seen any evidence 0:16:42.045 --> 0:16:45.325 of any type of drug dealing connected to Gale's death, 0:16:46.325 --> 0:16:48.885 but police did think the murder might have something to 0:16:48.885 --> 0:16:52.605 do with drugs, so let's explore that again. Was Ray 0:16:52.725 --> 0:16:56.205 really this big time drug dealer. Amy did some research 0:16:56.285 --> 0:17:00.045 into pills because we were wondering why were there seventeen 0:17:00.205 --> 0:17:04.285 thousand pills being confiscated from these guys. It turns out 0:17:04.325 --> 0:17:07.125 that back in the day, these pills, these very strong 0:17:07.205 --> 0:17:10.005 caffeine pills, were kind of the equivalent of selling adderall 0:17:10.485 --> 0:17:14.165 and sometimes dealers would come up with more creative ways 0:17:14.245 --> 0:17:19.005 to get people high, including sometimes melting the pills down 0:17:19.005 --> 0:17:22.565 into liquid and injecting them into the bloodstream. I don't 0:17:22.565 --> 0:17:27.725 actually know if injecting speed with an IV would make 0:17:27.765 --> 0:17:29.845 it hit your bloodstream faster. I don't know what kind 0:17:29.845 --> 0:17:33.285 of effects that would have, but I can imagine those 0:17:33.325 --> 0:17:35.245 caffeine pills and those quantities would. 0:17:35.045 --> 0:17:36.165 Make people act crazy. 0:17:36.605 --> 0:17:40.485 But at the same time, even in those quantities, this 0:17:40.565 --> 0:17:44.045 doesn't point to Ray or his cohorts being these big 0:17:44.085 --> 0:17:47.765 time drug dealers. Caffeine pills in marijuana are both legal today, 0:17:47.805 --> 0:17:50.845 and even though this was a long time ago. Again, 0:17:51.085 --> 0:17:53.605 I'm not really buying into the drug dealer theory, at 0:17:53.685 --> 0:17:55.885 least not with the evidence that we've seen so far. 0:17:59.045 --> 0:18:01.765 We asked her if there was anyone left alive since 0:18:01.885 --> 0:18:04.885 Ray and Randy have both passed away. He said, we 0:18:04.925 --> 0:18:06.645 should talk to Joy Ray's friend. 0:18:07.845 --> 0:18:11.645 I'll tell you there's one to living and hers and 0:18:11.725 --> 0:18:15.645 that knows for sure, and that person won't tell it 0:18:15.725 --> 0:18:20.045 to hey 'all. Jardy is still alive. He should be 0:18:21.045 --> 0:18:24.605 in the late seventies. For the last time I heard 0:18:24.645 --> 0:18:25.645 he was still alive. 0:18:27.245 --> 0:18:36.845 We need to find Jody. 0:18:37.005 --> 0:18:40.085 So, if Ray did kill Gail, why did he do it. 0:18:41.045 --> 0:18:43.205 We were trying to find out if there had been 0:18:43.245 --> 0:18:46.205 anyone else in Gail's life who might have seen signs 0:18:46.245 --> 0:18:50.965 of domestic violence. Let's go back to the evidence, even 0:18:51.005 --> 0:18:53.045 though a lot of the caseball pages are missing. 0:18:53.605 --> 0:18:55.205 We know where Gail's worksite was. 0:18:55.685 --> 0:18:57.725 We know where she lived in the trailer court in 0:18:57.765 --> 0:19:00.805 the basement apartment she shared with Ray that was owned 0:19:00.885 --> 0:19:04.525 by Ray's friend Barry Frizell. We know that at eight 0:19:04.565 --> 0:19:07.205 pm on October seventeenth, Gail talked to one of her 0:19:07.205 --> 0:19:11.045 supervisors at work. We know that she confirmed that they 0:19:11.045 --> 0:19:12.605 were not going to work the next day because of 0:19:12.605 --> 0:19:15.325 all the heavy rain they'd been having, but she told 0:19:15.405 --> 0:19:17.845 Joe she planned on coming up to pick up her 0:19:17.845 --> 0:19:22.405 paycheck on Friday morning. That conversation with Joe was the 0:19:22.525 --> 0:19:25.765 last known conversation that Gail ever had with anyone except 0:19:25.805 --> 0:19:30.605 her killer. Amy talked to Barry Frizell's brother. His name 0:19:30.645 --> 0:19:33.165 is Ted, and he said he knew Gail well. He 0:19:33.165 --> 0:19:36.085 said he hung around Gail and Ray during their relationship, 0:19:36.165 --> 0:19:39.565 and he insists there was no violence in their relationship. 0:19:40.045 --> 0:19:42.165 He said that Ray adored Gail. 0:19:43.205 --> 0:19:46.245 Ted said he didn't mind sharing information, but he said 0:19:46.245 --> 0:19:49.285 he prefers not to be on the podcast, which obviously 0:19:49.325 --> 0:19:52.285 is fine, but he did want to share his theory 0:19:52.365 --> 0:19:55.525 about what may have happened to Gail Vaught. He said 0:19:55.605 --> 0:19:59.605 he has a suspect in mine. He believes Ray's ex wife, Lynn, 0:19:59.845 --> 0:20:04.525 may have played a role in Gail's death. Gail never 0:20:04.645 --> 0:20:08.085 told anyone that Ray abused her, but we do know 0:20:08.125 --> 0:20:11.005 from the case file that Gail did make a comment 0:20:11.085 --> 0:20:14.005 at one point about being afraid of Ray because of 0:20:14.005 --> 0:20:16.925 what Ray had allegedly done to his ex wife. And 0:20:17.005 --> 0:20:19.005 to figure out what happened to her, we need to 0:20:19.005 --> 0:20:24.165 figure out the actual time of death. So again we 0:20:24.245 --> 0:20:26.605 come back to the crime scene and back to the evidence, 0:20:27.045 --> 0:20:29.565 and it strikes me that this case, more than anyone 0:20:29.605 --> 0:20:32.725 I've seen in a long time, has so much evidence 0:20:32.725 --> 0:20:36.605 that appears to be contradictory. So we really have to 0:20:36.685 --> 0:20:40.085 zero in and look at Gail's pattern of life. One 0:20:40.125 --> 0:20:43.205 of what I consider the biggest breakthroughs of this case 0:20:43.885 --> 0:20:46.445 is when we looked at the autopsy report and we 0:20:46.525 --> 0:20:49.885 figured out that the time of death is almost certainly wrong. 0:20:50.805 --> 0:20:53.925 Doctor Fawmi Malak, the medical examiner, did his forensic testing 0:20:53.965 --> 0:20:58.245 at eleven thirty am on October seventeenth, nineteen eighty. Now, initially, 0:20:58.285 --> 0:21:01.765 he said he believed that based on the forensics, that 0:21:01.805 --> 0:21:04.965 Gail had been dead between six and ten hours. That 0:21:05.005 --> 0:21:07.965 would put the time of death sometime between one thirty 0:21:08.005 --> 0:21:12.045 and five thirty am, But elsewhere in the autopsy report, 0:21:12.405 --> 0:21:15.725 doctor Malik indicated the time of death had been before midnight. 0:21:16.965 --> 0:21:21.805 This more closely aligns to what the police believed. They 0:21:21.885 --> 0:21:25.165 believed that Gail was killed that night, that she had 0:21:25.165 --> 0:21:27.005 been making dinner at home, and that she was either 0:21:27.085 --> 0:21:29.805 kidnapped from her home or something bad happened to her, 0:21:29.885 --> 0:21:32.245 something started in the home and went out to the woods. 0:21:32.605 --> 0:21:37.205 But the evidence contradicts this because first there's the fact that, 0:21:37.325 --> 0:21:40.965 according to the autopsy report, rigor mortis had just started 0:21:41.005 --> 0:21:44.285 in Gaile's face, it had not yet moved down her body, 0:21:44.765 --> 0:21:47.765 which would indicate that she had only been dead for 0:21:47.805 --> 0:21:55.005 a few hours. Let's go back to the tire tracks. 0:21:55.525 --> 0:21:58.765 Remember it rained really hard the night before. It was 0:21:58.805 --> 0:22:02.885 actually pouring torrentially at two am. But according to the 0:22:02.965 --> 0:22:07.445 autopsy report, Gail's hair and her clothes were described as 0:22:07.485 --> 0:22:11.005 wet but not saturated. And then there were the fresh 0:22:11.045 --> 0:22:14.325 tire tracks. They had a lot of detail in them. 0:22:14.645 --> 0:22:17.245 If Gail had been killed prior to this torrential rain, 0:22:17.805 --> 0:22:20.365 the tire tracks would have been obliterated in all that mud. 0:22:21.085 --> 0:22:24.445 Every single factor we look at points to the fact 0:22:24.485 --> 0:22:26.965 that Gail's time of death was much later than the 0:22:26.965 --> 0:22:27.765 police believe. 0:22:28.205 --> 0:22:29.165 I believe that it was. 0:22:29.165 --> 0:22:33.725 On Friday morning. Then we go back again to the condom. 0:22:34.325 --> 0:22:36.445 One of the biggest questions we've had in this case 0:22:36.645 --> 0:22:39.325 was was the condom a red herring? Was it left 0:22:39.325 --> 0:22:42.245 over from another couple hooking up in the woods, or 0:22:42.485 --> 0:22:45.445 could Gail's killer have planted it there? Did they want 0:22:45.485 --> 0:22:47.365 to make it look like this was a rape and 0:22:47.445 --> 0:22:50.245 murder and that that had been the motive. As we 0:22:50.285 --> 0:22:53.285 said last week, forensic testing on Gail's body revealed the 0:22:53.325 --> 0:22:56.845 possible presence of seamen in Gaal's vagina, but when swabs 0:22:56.885 --> 0:23:00.245 from Gayale's vagina were tested, they tested negative for sperm. 0:23:01.205 --> 0:23:02.605 We explained the discrepancy. 0:23:02.645 --> 0:23:05.485