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Speaker 1: School of Humans.

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Speaker 2: On October seventeenth, nineteen eighty, just after ten am, the

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Speaker 2: body of Gael Vault was found in Washington County, Arkansas,

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Speaker 2: near an area called Blake Weddington.

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Speaker 1: Gail was just twenty one years old.

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Speaker 2: She worked with mostly male colleagues on a road crew

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Speaker 2: building Highway seventy one in Fayetbule. Gail was wearing a

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Speaker 2: flannel shirt and a blue Michelin jacket. I know I

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Speaker 2: mentioned this last week, and I'm mentioning it again because

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Speaker 2: what Gail was wearing and the order that everything happened

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Speaker 2: in will become crucial in this murder investigation. Gail's legs

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Speaker 2: were open. She was naked from the waist down except

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Speaker 2: for a pair of torn and filthy white socks. Last week,

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Speaker 2: we explored three main theories. One that Gail's murder could

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Speaker 2: have been connected to drug dealing, to some kind of

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Speaker 2: Ozark mafia, or possibly to a drug dealer who was

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Speaker 2: trying to send a message to her boyfriend Ray Foreman

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Speaker 2: by targeting Gail. The second theory was that Gail was

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Speaker 2: the victim of domestic violence that on Thursday night, something

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Speaker 2: happened between Gail's boyfriend Ray and Gail something that spiraled

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Speaker 2: out of control and ended with her dead. The third

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Speaker 2: was that someone else, someone the police overlooked, maybe even

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Speaker 2: a stranger, raped and killed Gail.

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Speaker 1: One of the main.

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Speaker 2: Questions we talked about last week was the condom, the

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Speaker 2: brand Tickled Fancy, that was found near Gail's body. A

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Speaker 2: lot of people have wondered if Gail was actually sexually assaulted,

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Speaker 2: or if that condom was a red herring, if it

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Speaker 2: could have come from someone else, maybe some teenagers who

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Speaker 2: used that area for parking. This week, we're going to

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Speaker 2: do a deep dive into the Gail Vault case and

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Speaker 2: see if we can answer the question of what really

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Speaker 2: happened to her in those woods on October seventeenth, nineteen

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Speaker 2: eighty I'm Catherine Townsend. For the past five years of

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Speaker 2: working on my true crime podcast, Helen Gone, I've learned

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Speaker 2: that there is no such thing as a small town

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Speaker 2: where murder never happens. If you have a case you'd

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Speaker 2: like me to look into, you can reach out to

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Speaker 2: us at our Helen Gone Murder line at six seven

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Speaker 2: eight seven four four six one four five. That's six

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Speaker 2: seven eight seven four four six one four five. This

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Speaker 2: is Helen Gone Murder line. We've been looking at the

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Speaker 2: Gael Vaux case file. We filed a Foyer request. We

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Speaker 2: wanted to understand more about each of these three theories,

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Speaker 2: so our research assistant Amy reached out to Gail's sister, Teresa.

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Speaker 2: As we said last week, Teresa has been working with

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Speaker 2: a private investigator named Marty for the past few years,

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Speaker 2: and Marty was the person who first talked to me

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Speaker 2: about this case. Teresa and her sister Gail both came

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Speaker 2: from the small town of mountain Berg. Even though Gail's

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Speaker 2: parents have passed away, Teresa has still not given up

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Speaker 2: hope she might be able to find answers and one

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Speaker 2: day to understand what happened to her sister.

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Speaker 3: She went to two year college and played basketball. Who

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Speaker 3: is really big into sports. She didn't have a lot

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Speaker 3: of boyfriends, but she had a lot of guy friends.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 3: She hung out more with me guys at friends than

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Speaker 3: she did girls. And I think it was Coachy was

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Speaker 3: so tall, you know, she was like six foot one that.

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Speaker 3: She had a very outgoing personality, made friends easily. She

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Speaker 3: was a free spirit. She was kind, you know. She

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Speaker 3: lived in Sayedville and I lived between Van Buren and

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Speaker 3: own Cropper County, and she used to be at our

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Speaker 3: house all the time that you know, she had just

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Speaker 3: kind of once she moved it up here to Saydville,

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Speaker 3: she found a different circle of friends. I always felt

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Speaker 3: like her friends were the friends that if Gail wasn't

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Speaker 3: their friends, that they wouldn't have any friends. He was

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Speaker 3: just kind of everybody better. You know, most of her

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Speaker 3: friends were not the most outstanding people that you know,

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Speaker 3: they needed a friend and that was her.

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Speaker 2: Like pretty much everyone who talked to us about Gail,

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Speaker 2: Teresa told us about what a nice and wonderful person

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Speaker 2: her sister was. However, she did say that because Gail

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Speaker 2: was so nice, sometimes Gail would befriend people who, it

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Speaker 2: seems like Teresa believed might not have been the best

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Speaker 2: influences on Gail. Teresa said she didn't know Ray Forman,

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Speaker 2: Gail's boyfriend, that well.

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Speaker 3: She was dating a guy by the name of Ray

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Speaker 3: Forman at the time. He had been at the house

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Speaker 3: a couple of times, and the last time was probably

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Speaker 3: about two weeks before he was murdered, and they had

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Speaker 3: picked up my son, which he was three at the time,

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Speaker 3: and took him to the Fort Smith's Fair. It was

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Speaker 3: kind of late when they got home, and I offered

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Speaker 3: them to the Saturday night you know, where he had

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Speaker 3: spend the night and then go back the next morning.

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Speaker 3: And it was like, oh, my race got to work,

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Speaker 3: you know, this kind of stuff. But he was a

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Speaker 3: nice looking man. But he was very quiet, you know,

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Speaker 3: and that just made been his personality. I don't know,

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Speaker 3: never any mention of any kind of issues or problems,

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Speaker 3: but we didn't speak very often, you know that then

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Speaker 3: we had had a seal zone.

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Speaker 2: We talked last week about the fact that there have

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Speaker 2: been allegations of domestic violence with Ray and his ex

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Speaker 2: wife Lynn. Ray split up with Lynn a few months

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Speaker 2: before he started dating Gail. Teresa said that to her knowledge,

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Speaker 2: Gail and Ray were very happy and she was not

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Speaker 2: aware of any problems in their relationship or any domestic violence.

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Speaker 2: Teresa talked about her frustration with the police investigation, and

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Speaker 2: I really sympathize with us, by the way, because listeners

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Speaker 2: of this podcast know that so many of the cases

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Speaker 2: that we cover, we see the same pattern. The story

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Speaker 2: of what happened to Gail has changed over the years.

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Speaker 2: It seemed like to Teresa there was information that was

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Speaker 2: being added and being taken away After a while, she

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Speaker 2: said she really wasn't sure what to believe.

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Speaker 3: The story changus was to please them. What time as

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Speaker 3: the time serio as you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: As an example of what Teresa defined as this changing story,

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Speaker 2: she said that early in the investigation, one of the

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Speaker 2: deputies who was at the crime scene told her they

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Speaker 2: found white chipped paint near Gail's body, but there's nothing

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Speaker 2: in the record about that. There's nothing about white paint ships.

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Speaker 2: Later there was a rumor about orange paint ships being

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Speaker 2: found near the body. That's nowhere in the official record either.

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Speaker 2: Teresa also talked about Ray Foreman's alibi.

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Speaker 3: The police tell us that Ray had gone to a

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Speaker 3: party with about thirty people and that he had a

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Speaker 3: lot of alibis that as time has gone passed from

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Speaker 3: the police, who has changed to where he was out

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Speaker 3: running around doing kind of dope deel.

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Speaker 2: Teresa also discussed something that I mentioned in last week's episode.

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Speaker 2: She talked about Ray's alibi and about that weird alarm

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Speaker 2: clock story. Remember, Ray said he was out all night

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Speaker 2: with his friend Jody, someone who we know Gail did

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Speaker 2: not like. He claimed that he borrowed her jeep and

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Speaker 2: that she just allowed him to do that. And as

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Speaker 2: I said last week, I do find that unbelievable. Everyone

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Speaker 2: who knew Gail said she never gave her car to anyone.

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Speaker 2: She didn't want to walk. She was always the one

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Speaker 2: to drive her vehicle. So the idea that she would

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Speaker 2: give her vehicle to her boyfriend to allow him to

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Speaker 2: go out and make drug deals and just be fine

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Speaker 2: with that, knowing she had to go pick her paycheck

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Speaker 2: up the next morning seems very unlikely, but that is

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Speaker 2: his story. The next morning, he drove Jody home and

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Speaker 2: then he drove back to the apartment that he shared

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Speaker 2: with Gail, and he still had her jeep. Ray claimed

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Speaker 2: that he parked the jeep, and he said that he

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Speaker 2: got into his own truck. He got into his vehicle

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Speaker 2: and slept there. This was very odd, and he said

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Speaker 2: something else that was odd. He said that he saw

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Speaker 2: an alarm clock on the dashboard of his truck and

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Speaker 2: that the truck door was a little bit ajar. Teresa

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Speaker 2: called out the weirdness of this story.

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Speaker 3: There's something in there about an alarm clock that he

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Speaker 3: decided gale up maddenning and put it in his truck.

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Speaker 3: But the bottom line is, you know, on a Thursday

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Speaker 3: night where all of this SAT's happened, I can't feel

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Speaker 3: like that was a coincidence.

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Speaker 2: Again, this is another question we need to answer. We

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Speaker 2: need to figure out exactly what Ray was talking about.

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Speaker 2: We need to know if he meant that it was

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Speaker 2: a some kind of a clock that was in the

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Speaker 2: truck or it was an actual alarm clock that got

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Speaker 2: put out.

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Speaker 1: There, because that was bizarre.

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Speaker 2: What if Ray slept in the truck, not just because

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Speaker 2: he was hungover, but because he did not want to

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Speaker 2: go in that house and face Gail. What if while

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Speaker 2: he was sleeping, she walked out of the house and

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Speaker 2: that's why she had no shoes on, she approached him

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Speaker 2: in the truck, and they got into a knockdown, drag

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Speaker 2: out argument right there. I'm going to come back to

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Speaker 2: that later. For now, let's go through the rest of

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Speaker 2: Ray's albi Amy and I discussed the fact that right

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Speaker 2: before Gail left home, she was preparing dinner. According to Teresa,

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Speaker 2: Gail was cooking beans and cornbread.

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Speaker 3: He had started cooking beans and corn bread and stuff,

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Speaker 3: and then somebody turned the stoves off and there weren't

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Speaker 3: com points to Cook.

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Speaker 2: We looked at the autopsy report and there weren't any

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Speaker 2: stomach contents listed. I don't know if that's because of

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Speaker 2: Gail's injuries or if it was something that just wasn't noted,

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Speaker 2: but it would have been great to know if any

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Speaker 2: food was in her stomach at that time. Teresa said

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Speaker 2: that she believed Ray had something to do with Gail's murder.

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Speaker 2: She said that she believed that something started that night

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Speaker 2: before Ray left the house, something that potentially set him off,

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Speaker 2: Which brings us to another mystery in the case, because remember,

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Speaker 2: Gail was found wearing only a pair of socks. The

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Speaker 2: socks were dirty on the bottom and they had holes

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Speaker 2: in them, and police.

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Speaker 1: Said they never did find Gail's shoes.

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Speaker 2: Now, Teresa believes that that means Gail was kidnapped from

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Speaker 2: her apartment, possibly at gunpoint.

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Speaker 3: You know, I'm just surmising from every little bit of

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Speaker 3: piece of God. I can't say for sure that I

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Speaker 3: feel like it he right killed her, that I feel

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Speaker 3: in my heart that he knew that it was going

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Speaker 3: to happen and that he didn't do anything to stop it.

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Speaker 3: But you know, he may have been part of it.

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Speaker 3: I don't know, but I do know I do have

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Speaker 3: that feeling that he knew what was going on and

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Speaker 3: he tracked her in her apartment. You know, if he

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Speaker 3: didn't do it, then he helped set her up and

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Speaker 3: where it happened. I'm sorry, I know there has to

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Speaker 3: be difficult to hear. Well, you know, I lived with

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Speaker 3: it for you know, decades, and you know it's kind

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Speaker 3: of like you get numbed and stuff. That's right. Criminals

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Speaker 3: can be so evil is because they're so used to

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Speaker 3: seeing it. And I was the nurse, so you know,

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Speaker 3: I've kind of hardened to a lot of that. So

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Speaker 3: it's fine. You know, if this is going to find closure,

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Speaker 3: it's not a big deal.

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Speaker 2: One of the theories work exploring is the idea this

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Speaker 2: could have been connected to drug dealing. So we need

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Speaker 2: to know how big, how serious a drug user was

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Speaker 2: Gail and how big a drug dealer was her boyfriend Ray.

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Speaker 2: Teresa clarified that she said her sister did smoke pot

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Speaker 2: quite a bit. She said she did marijuana and did

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Speaker 2: ask it occasionally. This was pretty much the same thing

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Speaker 2: that we heard from Gail's friends. Gail was not involved

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Speaker 2: in heavy drugs or heavy drug dealing. The sheriff of

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Speaker 2: Washington County at the time of Gail's murder was a

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Speaker 2: man named Herb Marshall. Even though Herb left office shortly

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Speaker 2: after Gail's body was found, he has always said this

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Speaker 2: is a case that has stayed with him and that

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Speaker 2: he wishes he could have gotten justice for Gail and

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Speaker 2: for her family. A few years ago, Sheriff Marshall told Marty,

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Speaker 2: the private investigator who first brought us the case, that

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Speaker 2: he Herb believed that Gail was kidnapped from her home.

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Speaker 2: I wanted to know if he still felt that way.

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Speaker 2: Herb is now in his eighties. He admits that his

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Speaker 2: memory is not what it once was, and on top

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Speaker 2: of that, he's been having some serious health issues. But

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Speaker 2: he's still wants to help us in any way that

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Speaker 2: he can. He wants to figure out what happened to

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Speaker 2: Gayle Vaught. It's clear that the idea of this unsolved

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Speaker 2: murder in his county has tormented him over the years.

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Speaker 4: I just got out of a pill a week ago,

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Speaker 4: and mainly I'm not in that great in shape, but

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Speaker 4: I'll do what I can for you.

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Speaker 2: Herb said he believed in his gut that Ray had

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Speaker 2: something to do with Gail's death. He also said he

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Speaker 2: believed she had been forced out of her home, possibly

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Speaker 2: at gunpoint. Herb said he believed this based on the

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Speaker 2: fact there was the food on the stove that Theresa

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Speaker 2: mentioned and that there was food in the oven. This

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Speaker 2: made police believe that Gayle's time of death happened sometime

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Speaker 2: late on Thursday night. The former sheriff, Herb Marshall explained

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Speaker 2: what actually killed Gail and we weren't wrong.

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Speaker 1: Her death was horrific.

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Speaker 4: They made it try to look like from which she

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Speaker 4: wasn't at the grime and saying had actually what killed her.

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Speaker 4: And she had a bullet hole right behind her right

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Speaker 4: at ere. I believe it's a twenty two caliper which

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Speaker 4: she hid, that bullingncked her unconscious, but whoever shot herself

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Speaker 4: that killer.

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Speaker 2: Gail had been shot in the head with a twenty

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Speaker 2: two caliber bullet, but the bullet fragmented in her skull

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Speaker 2: and so it did not penetrate her brain, so this

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Speaker 2: was not a fatal wound. Sometime during all this, Gail's

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Speaker 2: killer took off her jeans and underwear. We know based

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Speaker 2: on the fecal matter that was in her underwear that

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Speaker 2: she was dead or dying when this was done. And

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Speaker 2: then at some point during this horrific sexual assault, her

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Speaker 2: killer realized that Gail was not dead.

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Speaker 4: She apparently was a fading in the back behind the cheek.

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Speaker 4: When the cheap backed over her, said Kilder was a

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Speaker 4: She bled to death and eternally from her splain the

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Speaker 4: splain or some portion in her she actually bled to

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Speaker 4: death internally.

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Speaker 2: So the killer got in his vehicle and backed over her.

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Speaker 2: When the vehicle backed over her, it caused catastrophic injuries

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Speaker 2: to her pelvis, a lot of her internal organs. Basically,

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Speaker 2: the car tore apart the bottom half of her body

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Speaker 2: and led to her bleeding to.

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Speaker 1: Death in the woods alone.

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Speaker 2: It's one of the most horrific murders I've ever read

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Speaker 2: about herb said he was focused on Ray because mainly

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Speaker 2: of the drug dealing and the bad associations he had

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Speaker 2: with him. He said he believed that when he talked

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Speaker 2: to Ray, Ray was on the cusp of confessing to something.

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Speaker 4: In my mind, I had him at one time.

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Speaker 1: He couldn't answer the question of what the motive would

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Speaker 1: have been.

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure of picking event I have a dozen things.

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Speaker 4: He could have been drugs because he had her on

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Speaker 4: some drugs. He's Rudi him sale.

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Speaker 2: I know that smoking pot was a much bigger deal,

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Speaker 2: especially in Arkansas in nineteen eighty, but so far I

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Speaker 2: haven't seen anything other than some bragging that happened years

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Speaker 2: later by a couple of guys who were in jail

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Speaker 2: and might have had their own reasons for wanting to

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Speaker 2: seem like dangerous drug dealers. I haven't seen any evidence

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Speaker 2: of any type of drug dealing connected to Gale's death,

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Speaker 2: but police did think the murder might have something to

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Speaker 2: do with drugs, so let's explore that again. Was Ray

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Speaker 2: really this big time drug dealer. Amy did some research

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Speaker 2: into pills because we were wondering why were there seventeen

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Speaker 2: thousand pills being confiscated from these guys. It turns out

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Speaker 2: that back in the day, these pills, these very strong

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Speaker 2: caffeine pills, were kind of the equivalent of selling adderall

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Speaker 2: and sometimes dealers would come up with more creative ways

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Speaker 2: to get people high, including sometimes melting the pills down

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Speaker 2: into liquid and injecting them into the bloodstream. I don't

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Speaker 2: actually know if injecting speed with an IV would make

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00:17:27,765 --> 00:17:29,845
Speaker 2: it hit your bloodstream faster. I don't know what kind

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00:17:29,845 --> 00:17:33,285
Speaker 2: of effects that would have, but I can imagine those

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Speaker 2: caffeine pills and those quantities would.

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Speaker 1: Make people act crazy.

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Speaker 2: But at the same time, even in those quantities, this

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Speaker 2: doesn't point to Ray or his cohorts being these big

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Speaker 2: time drug dealers. Caffeine pills in marijuana are both legal today,

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Speaker 2: and even though this was a long time ago. Again,

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Speaker 2: I'm not really buying into the drug dealer theory, at

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Speaker 2: least not with the evidence that we've seen so far.

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Speaker 2: We asked her if there was anyone left alive since

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Speaker 2: Ray and Randy have both passed away. He said, we

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Speaker 2: should talk to Joy Ray's friend.

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Speaker 4: I'll tell you there's one to living and hers and

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Speaker 4: that knows for sure, and that person won't tell it

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Speaker 4: to hey 'all. Jardy is still alive. He should be

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Speaker 4: in the late seventies. For the last time I heard

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Speaker 4: he was still alive.

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Speaker 1: We need to find Jody.

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Speaker 2: So, if Ray did kill Gail, why did he do it.

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Speaker 2: We were trying to find out if there had been

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Speaker 2: anyone else in Gail's life who might have seen signs

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Speaker 2: of domestic violence. Let's go back to the evidence, even

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Speaker 2: though a lot of the caseball pages are missing.

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Speaker 1: We know where Gail's worksite was.

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Speaker 2: We know where she lived in the trailer court in

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Speaker 2: the basement apartment she shared with Ray that was owned

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Speaker 2: by Ray's friend Barry Frizell. We know that at eight

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Speaker 2: pm on October seventeenth, Gail talked to one of her

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Speaker 2: supervisors at work. We know that she confirmed that they

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Speaker 2: were not going to work the next day because of

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Speaker 2: all the heavy rain they'd been having, but she told

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Speaker 2: Joe she planned on coming up to pick up her

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00:19:17,845 --> 00:19:22,405
Speaker 2: paycheck on Friday morning. That conversation with Joe was the

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Speaker 2: last known conversation that Gail ever had with anyone except

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Speaker 2: her killer. Amy talked to Barry Frizell's brother. His name

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Speaker 2: is Ted, and he said he knew Gail well. He

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00:19:33,165 --> 00:19:36,085
Speaker 2: said he hung around Gail and Ray during their relationship,

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Speaker 2: and he insists there was no violence in their relationship.

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Speaker 1: He said that Ray adored Gail.

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Speaker 2: Ted said he didn't mind sharing information, but he said

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Speaker 2: he prefers not to be on the podcast, which obviously

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Speaker 2: is fine, but he did want to share his theory

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00:19:52,365 --> 00:19:55,525
Speaker 2: about what may have happened to Gail Vaught. He said

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Speaker 2: he has a suspect in mine. He believes Ray's ex wife, Lynn,

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00:19:59,845 --> 00:20:04,525
Speaker 2: may have played a role in Gail's death. Gail never

348
00:20:04,645 --> 00:20:08,085
Speaker 2: told anyone that Ray abused her, but we do know

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Speaker 2: from the case file that Gail did make a comment

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Speaker 2: at one point about being afraid of Ray because of

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Speaker 2: what Ray had allegedly done to his ex wife. And

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Speaker 2: to figure out what happened to her, we need to

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Speaker 2: figure out the actual time of death. So again we

354
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Speaker 2: come back to the crime scene and back to the evidence,

355
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Speaker 2: and it strikes me that this case, more than anyone

356
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Speaker 2: I've seen in a long time, has so much evidence

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Speaker 2: that appears to be contradictory. So we really have to

358
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Speaker 2: zero in and look at Gail's pattern of life. One

359
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Speaker 2: of what I consider the biggest breakthroughs of this case

360
00:20:43,885 --> 00:20:46,445
Speaker 2: is when we looked at the autopsy report and we

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00:20:46,525 --> 00:20:49,885
Speaker 2: figured out that the time of death is almost certainly wrong.

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Speaker 2: Doctor Fawmi Malak, the medical examiner, did his forensic testing

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Speaker 2: at eleven thirty am on October seventeenth, nineteen eighty. Now, initially,

364
00:20:58,285 --> 00:21:01,765
Speaker 2: he said he believed that based on the forensics, that

365
00:21:01,805 --> 00:21:04,965
Speaker 2: Gail had been dead between six and ten hours. That

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Speaker 2: would put the time of death sometime between one thirty

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Speaker 2: and five thirty am, But elsewhere in the autopsy report,

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00:21:12,405 --> 00:21:15,725
Speaker 2: doctor Malik indicated the time of death had been before midnight.

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Speaker 2: This more closely aligns to what the police believed. They

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Speaker 2: believed that Gail was killed that night, that she had

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Speaker 2: been making dinner at home, and that she was either

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Speaker 2: kidnapped from her home or something bad happened to her,

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Speaker 2: something started in the home and went out to the woods.

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Speaker 2: But the evidence contradicts this because first there's the fact that,

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Speaker 2: according to the autopsy report, rigor mortis had just started

376
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Speaker 2: in Gaile's face, it had not yet moved down her body,

377
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Speaker 2: which would indicate that she had only been dead for

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Speaker 2: a few hours. Let's go back to the tire tracks.

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Speaker 2: Remember it rained really hard the night before. It was

380
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Speaker 2: actually pouring torrentially at two am. But according to the

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00:22:02,965 --> 00:22:07,445
Speaker 2: autopsy report, Gail's hair and her clothes were described as

382
00:22:07,485 --> 00:22:11,005
Speaker 2: wet but not saturated. And then there were the fresh

383
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Speaker 2: tire tracks. They had a lot of detail in them.

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Speaker 2: If Gail had been killed prior to this torrential rain,

385
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Speaker 2: the tire tracks would have been obliterated in all that mud.

386
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Speaker 2: Every single factor we look at points to the fact

387
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Speaker 2: that Gail's time of death was much later than the

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Speaker 2: police believe.

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Speaker 1: I believe that it was.

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Speaker 2: On Friday morning. Then we go back again to the condom.

391
00:22:34,325 --> 00:22:36,445
Speaker 2: One of the biggest questions we've had in this case

392
00:22:36,645 --> 00:22:39,325
Speaker 2: was was the condom a red herring? Was it left

393
00:22:39,325 --> 00:22:42,245
Speaker 2: over from another couple hooking up in the woods, or

394
00:22:42,485 --> 00:22:45,445
Speaker 2: could Gail's killer have planted it there? Did they want

395
00:22:45,485 --> 00:22:47,365
Speaker 2: to make it look like this was a rape and

396
00:22:47,445 --> 00:22:50,245
Speaker 2: murder and that that had been the motive. As we

397
00:22:50,285 --> 00:22:53,285
Speaker 2: said last week, forensic testing on Gail's body revealed the

398
00:22:53,325 --> 00:22:56,845
Speaker 2: possible presence of seamen in Gaal's vagina, but when swabs

399
00:22:56,885 --> 00:23:00,245
Speaker 2: from Gayale's vagina were tested, they tested negative for sperm.

400
00:23:01,205 --> 00:23:02,605
Speaker 1: We explained the discrepancy.

401
00:23:02,645 --> 00:23:05,485
Speaker 2: We said that the semen could have been from consensual

402
00:23:05,685 --> 00:23:09,045
Speaker 2: sex she had with Ray on Wednesday night. The fact

403
00:23:09,085 --> 00:23:12,525
Speaker 2: that Gayle's genes and underwear were removed make it, in

404
00:23:12,605 --> 00:23:17,045
Speaker 2: my opinion, less likely that the condom was completely irrelevant.

405
00:23:17,045 --> 00:23:18,565
Speaker 1: That seems like a big coincidence.

406
00:23:20,445 --> 00:23:24,525
Speaker 2: However, tragically, somewhere between the Arkansas State Crime Lab in

407
00:23:24,685 --> 00:23:28,605
Speaker 2: Washington County, the condom was lost years ago, so there's

408
00:23:28,645 --> 00:23:34,965
Speaker 2: no way to test it for DNA. Now, so did

409
00:23:35,045 --> 00:23:38,165
Speaker 2: gailes killer stage a crime scene? Did he try to

410
00:23:38,245 --> 00:23:43,485
Speaker 2: frame someone? I think the framing theory is becoming more

411
00:23:43,485 --> 00:23:46,645
Speaker 2: and more unlikely. People who are discussing that and making

412
00:23:46,645 --> 00:23:49,925
Speaker 2: comments online about it are for the most part, looking

413
00:23:49,965 --> 00:23:52,645
Speaker 2: at this case with a modern day CSI Dick Wolf

414
00:23:52,685 --> 00:23:55,925
Speaker 2: savvy lens. And we have to remember that this was

415
00:23:56,005 --> 00:23:59,245
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty. CSI did not exist. People were not watching

416
00:23:59,245 --> 00:24:02,805
Speaker 2: Dick Wolf shows. DNA was not even a remote possibility.

417
00:24:02,885 --> 00:24:05,325
Speaker 2: No one had ever heard of it. And we have

418
00:24:05,365 --> 00:24:08,005
Speaker 2: to also ask ourselves who was using condoms in the

419
00:24:08,085 --> 00:24:12,165
Speaker 2: Arkansas Ozarks Back then? This was also pre AIDS, so

420
00:24:12,965 --> 00:24:15,765
Speaker 2: men who were past their teenage years, in their mid

421
00:24:15,805 --> 00:24:18,845
Speaker 2: and late twenties. In that age group, those guys who

422
00:24:18,885 --> 00:24:21,965
Speaker 2: were in relationships tended not to use condoms that much.

423
00:24:22,845 --> 00:24:25,405
Speaker 2: There were some exceptions. There are a few groups of

424
00:24:25,445 --> 00:24:28,965
Speaker 2: people who, in my investigative experience on cold cases, and

425
00:24:29,085 --> 00:24:31,365
Speaker 2: as a PI who's done a lot of marital surveillance,

426
00:24:31,645 --> 00:24:35,325
Speaker 2: men who cheat carry condoms. Those are the guys who

427
00:24:35,365 --> 00:24:37,765
Speaker 2: carry boxes of condoms in their car, often in the

428
00:24:37,765 --> 00:24:45,325
Speaker 2: glove compartment. So now we need to take a look

429
00:24:45,405 --> 00:24:48,765
Speaker 2: at the third theory. We've talked about domestic violence, We've

430
00:24:48,765 --> 00:24:51,885
Speaker 2: talked about drug dealing. What about the possibility that a

431
00:24:51,965 --> 00:24:56,285
Speaker 2: stranger sexually assaulted and murdered Gale, Which brings us back

432
00:24:56,325 --> 00:24:58,885
Speaker 2: to the man who said that he saw Gail hitchhiking.

433
00:24:59,685 --> 00:25:02,565
Speaker 2: Laith Lane, a twenty nine year old who was driving

434
00:25:02,605 --> 00:25:04,765
Speaker 2: his wife to work at around six fifteen am on

435
00:25:04,805 --> 00:25:08,565
Speaker 2: the morning of a Osober seventeenth. The officer who interviewed

436
00:25:08,645 --> 00:25:13,285
Speaker 2: laith Lane noted that he was acting strangely during the interview,

437
00:25:14,045 --> 00:25:18,485
Speaker 2: acting nervous and in fact, the officer wrote that Laith's

438
00:25:18,525 --> 00:25:22,245
Speaker 2: behavior was so unusual that he said he wanted to

439
00:25:22,325 --> 00:25:26,445
Speaker 2: check the FBI background details on this person. Remember that

440
00:25:26,565 --> 00:25:29,765
Speaker 2: laith said that on the morning of October seventeenth, he

441
00:25:29,885 --> 00:25:31,845
Speaker 2: was on the road driving his wife to work by

442
00:25:31,925 --> 00:25:36,525
Speaker 2: six fifteen am. Later, though in another interview, he told

443
00:25:36,565 --> 00:25:38,925
Speaker 2: a slightly different story. He said that he dropped his

444
00:25:39,045 --> 00:25:41,965
Speaker 2: children off at daycare. He said he saw Gail on

445
00:25:42,005 --> 00:25:45,645
Speaker 2: the hill by the Fayetteville Mall. And then when we

446
00:25:45,725 --> 00:25:49,365
Speaker 2: talked to Teresa, she dropped another bombshell. She said that

447
00:25:49,445 --> 00:25:52,325
Speaker 2: around midnight or a little after in the early morning

448
00:25:52,365 --> 00:25:56,205
Speaker 2: hours of October seventeenth, that someone else had supposedly seen

449
00:25:56,205 --> 00:25:59,805
Speaker 2: Gail hitchhiking. This person was a police officer.

450
00:26:00,045 --> 00:26:02,645
Speaker 3: He was seen now on one of the highways by

451
00:26:03,205 --> 00:26:07,845
Speaker 3: some Farmington police officer, but about midnight. But and it

452
00:26:07,965 --> 00:26:10,685
Speaker 3: was raining, and he should have sought and he didn't.

453
00:26:16,925 --> 00:26:21,125
Speaker 3: I have been talking to different like state police, different

454
00:26:21,405 --> 00:26:25,925
Speaker 3: deputies from Zaydville, you know, whoever Marty could find me

455
00:26:26,005 --> 00:26:29,205
Speaker 3: to talk to, and nobody ever told me that case

456
00:26:29,325 --> 00:26:34,365
Speaker 3: was closed until about maybe a year ago. And I've

457
00:26:34,365 --> 00:26:37,725
Speaker 3: been talking to him since twenty thirteen, and then all

458
00:26:37,725 --> 00:26:41,525
Speaker 3: of a sudden the case closed. They said if new

459
00:26:41,565 --> 00:26:45,725
Speaker 3: evidence came, then they reopened it. Well, what they have

460
00:26:45,805 --> 00:26:48,805
Speaker 3: said is that they believe Brakforman did it, and there's

461
00:26:48,845 --> 00:26:51,405
Speaker 3: just no way to prove it. So in their minds,

462
00:26:51,445 --> 00:26:54,485
Speaker 3: they've already solved it, you know, with no evidence.

463
00:26:57,645 --> 00:27:00,685
Speaker 2: There are so many more questions we still need answered.

464
00:27:01,645 --> 00:27:03,405
Speaker 2: We need to know more about who was involved in

465
00:27:03,445 --> 00:27:06,045
Speaker 2: the drug scene in that friend group, need to know

466
00:27:06,165 --> 00:27:10,805
Speaker 2: more about the relationship between Ray and Gail. We need

467
00:27:10,845 --> 00:27:13,485
Speaker 2: to figure out what happened on the morning of October seventeenth,

468
00:27:13,645 --> 00:27:18,645
Speaker 2: nineteen eighty, because that's the crucial time period. What happened

469
00:27:18,885 --> 00:27:22,405
Speaker 2: at Gale and Ray's apartment after he came home that morning,

470
00:27:23,005 --> 00:27:26,485
Speaker 2: And what if anything set her out on that path

471
00:27:26,565 --> 00:27:30,005
Speaker 2: walking along the highway, and who might have picked her

472
00:27:30,085 --> 00:27:34,485
Speaker 2: up along that dark highway. To get the answers, I

473
00:27:34,605 --> 00:27:37,005
Speaker 2: may have to go back into those woods.

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Speaker 1: I'm Catherine Townsend.

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00:27:39,645 --> 00:27:45,925
Speaker 2: This is Helen Gone Murder Line. Helen Gone Murder Line

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00:27:45,965 --> 00:27:48,405
Speaker 2: is a production of School of Humans and iHeart Podcasts.

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00:27:48,725 --> 00:27:51,565
Speaker 2: It's written and narrated by me Catherine Townsend and produced

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00:27:51,565 --> 00:27:56,005
Speaker 2: by Gabby Watts. Music contributed by Ben Sale. Executive producers

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00:27:56,005 --> 00:27:59,965
Speaker 2: are Virginia Prescott, Brandon Barr, and Elsie Curley. If you

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00:28:00,085 --> 00:28:02,645
Speaker 2: have a case you'd like me to look into, you

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00:28:02,685 --> 00:28:04,965
Speaker 2: can reach out to us at our Helen Gone Murder

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00:28:04,965 --> 00:28:08,565
Speaker 2: Line six seven eight seven four four six one four five.

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Speaker 2: That's six seven eight seven four four six one four five.

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Speaker 1: School of Humans