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Speaker 1: All Zone media.

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Speaker 2: Whoa welcome back to it could happen here? A podcast

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Speaker 2: about you know it happening here, which is what we

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Speaker 2: what we all you know we know what's happening.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and the it being rebellion in the here

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Speaker 3: being a galaxy far far away, and then now being

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Speaker 3: long long ago for this episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah we are. These are our May Day episodes. And

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Speaker 2: nothing could make more sense on May Day than talking

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Speaker 2: about and or the new season of the show and

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Speaker 2: Or if you're not familiar with and Or it is

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Speaker 2: a Star Wars show, and if you don't like Star Wars,

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Speaker 2: or you just don't like the Disney Star Wars, if

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Speaker 2: you've not enjoyed a Star Wars since you were six.

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Speaker 2: This is not that kind of thing. This is a

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Speaker 2: treatise on how revolutions do, can and should work, written

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Speaker 2: by people who have a deep of knowledge, including a

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Speaker 2: degree of on the ground knowledge of what some of

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Speaker 2: this looks like. And it is an immensely important piece

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Speaker 2: of media to be getting out right now. And we'll

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Speaker 2: start by saying Disney evil, bad corporation. I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: pay them for Disney plus Torrents exist.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, raise the black flag, Raise raise the black flag

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Speaker 4: once again.

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Speaker 2: I don't care how you get this. And you know

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Speaker 2: what I'll say this, I suspect the people making and

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Speaker 2: Or don't really care how you get this. This has

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Speaker 2: been the most financially successful show and generations. Fuck it.

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Speaker 2: Get it like, don't don't pay Disney money if you

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Speaker 2: don't want to. I have no issue with that. I

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Speaker 2: don't know whose login I'm using it. I haven't for years.

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Speaker 2: Garrison can vouch for that. Just just watch it.

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Speaker 3: Be like Cassie and Or and Liberate and Or season

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Speaker 3: two from from Disney, and watch it however however you

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Speaker 3: feel comfortable doing so.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, use your.

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Speaker 4: F movie is use your here's your what? Yeah.

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Speaker 2: This is a podcast about the current season of and Or,

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Speaker 2: which is coming out in three episode blocks every Tuesday.

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Speaker 2: The second three episodes, we're now up to six episodes,

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Speaker 2: came out yesterday as we record this Tuesday of this week,

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Speaker 2: and there's two more weeks of and Or coming. So

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Speaker 2: this episode we're going to be talking about episodes one

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Speaker 2: through three. We should probably start with a little If

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Speaker 2: you haven't watched it, go watch it. Just watch season

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Speaker 2: one and then you know you can watch season two

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Speaker 2: and listen along with us if you're not, if you're

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Speaker 2: a crazy person who's not going to do that will

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Speaker 2: summarize season one for you, which is that there's this

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Speaker 2: guy who grew up on a planet that was destroyed

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Speaker 2: by the Empire. He essentially like lived as a hunter

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Speaker 2: gatherer until you know, the war came to him and

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Speaker 2: he was forced out of his home and grows up

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Speaker 2: very angry, is taken in by some people who are

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Speaker 2: kind of like petty criminals and petty almost petty rebels,

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Speaker 2: you know, but not in the rebel alliance sense, just

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Speaker 2: and that well, we're going to commit some crimes around

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Speaker 2: the edges and try to get by. And the show

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Speaker 2: is about this guy getting inducted into a revolutionary organization

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Speaker 2: run by a man named Luthan that is that is

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Speaker 2: simultaneously very centralized around him and also very decentralized, and

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Speaker 2: that it's primarily him arming and getting information and attempting

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Speaker 2: to direct cells that are themselves autonomous and often in

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Speaker 2: conflict with each other, which is very realistic to how

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Speaker 2: things like this start. On a historical level, everything that's

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Speaker 2: happening in and Or is based in real history. Tony Gilroy,

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Speaker 2: who is the showrunner has stated that the kind of

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Speaker 2: bank robbing years of Joseph Stalin were one influence behind this,

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Speaker 2: But there are a lot you can see and in

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Speaker 2: fact there's a little bit of Portland at the end

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Speaker 2: of season one. There's a number of things that have

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Speaker 2: influenced this show, a lot of moments in history the IRA.

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Speaker 2: Some of the IRA.

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Speaker 3: Like post al Qaeda, like prison and Yes, resistance rebellion, Yes,

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Speaker 3: for how terrorist cells like form underneath.

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Speaker 4: And also very explicitly he talks about this in an

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Speaker 4: interview like the Revolutions podcast by Mike Duncan. Is an

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Speaker 4: influence on how on how this one?

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Speaker 2: Yes was an influence on this Yes. So that's all

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Speaker 2: to set this up. We're now going to talk about

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Speaker 2: what happens in episodes one, two, and three of season two.

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Speaker 2: You want to summarize them, gear.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, let's start with the first episode. So undercover rebel

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Speaker 3: agent Cassian Andor steals in experimental tie Avenger, crashes it

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Speaker 3: on a jungle planet and then finds himself in a

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Speaker 3: sectarian split between this other rebel cell who just had

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Speaker 3: like a DISASTERUS operation.

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Speaker 2: Their leader got killed, so no one's really sure who

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Speaker 2: should be running things.

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Speaker 3: They capture Cassian because they think he's an Imperial pilot,

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Speaker 3: and he tries to negotiate with them as their infighting continues. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 3: Imperial intelligence agents converge to develop a plan on how

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Speaker 3: to squash potential resistance on the planet Gorman as they

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Speaker 3: plan to extract calkite minerals from the planet's core, potentially

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Speaker 3: endangering the stability of the planet.

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Speaker 4: To build a dust star. By the way, yes, to

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Speaker 4: build a dust star.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So what's happening is these minerals are necessary to

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Speaker 2: collect the system that makes the death Stars big planet

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Speaker 2: destroying gun work. But at this point basically no one

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Speaker 2: knows that, and the Imperial like intelligence Yeah, and they're

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Speaker 2: being told that it's part of an energy independence project.

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Speaker 3: Mon Mathma, the senator from Tandrella who eventually becomes a

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Speaker 3: rebel leader in the Star Wars movies, is helping to

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Speaker 3: plan the Traadcath wedding for her daughter against Mathema's own wishes,

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Speaker 3: and she runs into some difficulties with someone who helped

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Speaker 3: her clean up some of her financial blemishes to help

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Speaker 3: finance the rebellion. So this is most of what happens

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Speaker 3: in this first episode, we have some of some of

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Speaker 3: Andor's previous comrades and planet Ferriks are on this like

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Speaker 3: farming planet and they're nervous about potential inspection. So I

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Speaker 3: guess specifically, do you have anything we want to talk

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Speaker 3: about on this first episode?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I want to talk about the scene where they

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Speaker 2: talk about clearing out Gorman, because when they talk about

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Speaker 2: mining it for this mineral that's necessary to make the

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Speaker 2: Death Star, they're talking about basically doing deep fracking at

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Speaker 2: the core of the planet that is going to make

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Speaker 2: it uninhabitable, right Like, they're basically tearing out the core

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Speaker 2: of this world that produces high quality textiles, right Like,

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Speaker 2: it's famous kind of a luxury goods exporter. That's really

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Speaker 2: all they make. There's these spiders there that make a

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Speaker 2: nice kind of silk. That's what the planet does. And

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Speaker 2: it's got this population of people who are used to

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Speaker 2: being given a lot of autonomy because they make very

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Speaker 2: this nice, this like luxury product that all they're rich

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Speaker 2: people like, right so that the folks running there are

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Speaker 2: public and in the early years when there was still

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Speaker 2: more they're a public The Empire was still more on

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Speaker 2: their republican side. Still people didn't want to talk with

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Speaker 2: them too much because they make a luxury good. Right.

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Speaker 2: There was a massacre there kind of early on in

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Speaker 2: the Empire, when Tark and the target yeah, landed a

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Speaker 2: cruiser on a bunch of protesters, killing them. But other

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Speaker 2: than that, it's been pretty quiet for a while. There

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Speaker 2: is like a small and not super competent or armed

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Speaker 2: rebel cell starting up on the planet, and they have

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Speaker 2: this big meeting the Empire does where everybody gathers at

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Speaker 2: a castle with the guy who's in charge of building

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Speaker 2: the Death Star to talk about how to clear off

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Speaker 2: this planet. The meeting itself and this part of the

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Speaker 2: episode is based off of the Vonse Conference, which was

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Speaker 2: a conference held in nineteen forty two by Reinhart Heidrich

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Speaker 2: and kind of managed by Adolf Eichman to plan the holocaust.

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Speaker 2: This is where they actually sat down and talked about

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Speaker 2: how are we going to build death camps, how are

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Speaker 2: the death camps going to operate, how will we evacuate

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Speaker 2: people to the death camps? All of that. Right, there

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Speaker 2: was a meeting. A bunch of guys showed up. There

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Speaker 2: are minutes of the meeting. Tony has stated, if you've

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Speaker 2: watched there's a great TV movie it's like twenty years

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Speaker 2: old at this point called Conspiracy. It stars Kenneth Brannaw

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Speaker 2: as Reinhard Heydrich, who is the architect who was like

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Speaker 2: the guy running the Holocaust. Initially it's stars Stanley Tucci

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Speaker 2: as Adolph Eichman, an incredible iikman by the way, And

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Speaker 2: this scene is deeply influenced by that movie. Right. There

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Speaker 2: was another German movie also that, like the movie with Brannaw,

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Speaker 2: was based off of. But but Tony Gilroy has said

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Speaker 2: that movie was an influence and that this is based

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Speaker 2: on the Bonse conference, and there's a couple of lines

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Speaker 2: that are almost word for word. One of the big

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Speaker 2: differences is there's a point at which they bring in

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Speaker 2: a couple of PR agents who are outside of the empire.

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Speaker 2: That's like an outside PR corporation and arm. Yeah. Well,

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Speaker 2: I think they're an outside contractor who does marketing normally

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Speaker 2: and is doing propaganda if I'm remembering right.

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Speaker 4: I thinky're part of the Ministry of Enlightenment, is what

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Speaker 4: they call it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, crediful name they have. They have some of

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Speaker 3: the best bits, yes, from this meeting.

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Speaker 2: Their job is to put out propaganda that makes the

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Speaker 2: Gorman's look arrogant and unloyal and bad to everyone else,

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Speaker 2: so that when they're massacred, no one will care. Yeah.

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Speaker 4: Quote, hasn't there always been something a little arrogant about

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Speaker 4: the gour Yeah, very good.

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Speaker 2: It's it's very good.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: They're talking about how they like create false news stories

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Speaker 3: and like influence public opinion to be weaponized in favor

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Speaker 3: of the imperial project, the Ministry of Enlightenment. Stuff is

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Speaker 3: very good. The other line I really like is from Dedra,

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Speaker 3: one of the main characters from like the previous season,

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Speaker 3: who has this like female isb agent and.

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Speaker 2: She's sort of being made the aikman of the the

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Speaker 2: Gorman Project.

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Speaker 3: And like she talks with a chronic Ben Mendelssohn's character,

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Speaker 3: like about how propaganda really only gets you so far,

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Speaker 3: and instead what they will need to need to work

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Speaker 3: on is actually like controlling the Gorman resistance from the inside,

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Speaker 3: Like you need to count on rebels to do like

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Speaker 3: the wrong thing at the right time. So about like

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Speaker 3: like like astroturfing some kind of insurgency that can actually

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Speaker 3: in the end service the Empire's interests, and like this

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Speaker 3: is what she's talking about for her project being is

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Speaker 3: actually like helping to influence the way that the resistance

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Speaker 3: operates on the planet instead of just just focusing on

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Speaker 3: like public opinion and propaganda and like military might.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: What I really appreciate about this scene is the degree

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Speaker 2: to which it shows Number One, how information is siloed

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Speaker 2: in a situation like this, how people are on a

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Speaker 2: need like this room is informed at the start. Whoever,

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Speaker 2: your bosses, if they're not in the room, they don't

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Speaker 2: know about this. Yeah, and you don't tell them, Like

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Speaker 2: we do not want the tightest of closed services. We

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Speaker 2: are doing a genocide and we're not talking about it

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Speaker 2: to other people.

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Speaker 3: They report directly to the Emperor. No other people beneath

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Speaker 3: the emperor knows what's happening. Yeah, and even the Emperor

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Speaker 3: doesn't really know all of the details at this point.

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Speaker 4: Like yeah, and this is like like the people are

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Speaker 4: cutting out, like like they're cutting out, like the Rector

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Speaker 4: of Imperial of the ISP, like they're cutting out the

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Speaker 4: Director of Imperial intelligeny're cutting off, like grabbing off Tarkin,

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Speaker 4: like they're cutting out, Like the most important people in

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Speaker 4: Star Wars have no idea, Like it's not even clear

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Speaker 4: to be the Vader. I mean, Vader probably knows, but

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Speaker 4: there's no fucking mention of him at all either.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, he can read mine, so I assume he's been

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Speaker 2: able to like glean some things. But yes, he's.

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Speaker 4: Not not involved in any of this shit because he's

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Speaker 4: not a Dutch star guy.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and again, this isn't like a massive population, so

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Speaker 2: they're viewing this primarily as like a pr problem. So

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Speaker 2: both you need to get out messaging that these people

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Speaker 2: are arrogant and bad so that nobody supports them when

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Speaker 2: we start killing them, and we need a terror cell

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Speaker 2: that can be trusted to carry out attacks against the

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Speaker 2: empire that will justify what we need to do, right,

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Speaker 2: So that that's the point of this meeting. It's very

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Speaker 2: well shot, it's very well done. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: understanding of like just history in it that I appreciated

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Speaker 2: as a Holocaust nerd. That's a bad way to frame it, but.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, that is a bad way to frame it. Yeah, Nope, nope, nope.

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Speaker 2: Anyway, No, if you've watched these episodes and you loved

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Speaker 2: them and you found that scene chilling, go watch Conspiracy

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Speaker 2: with Kenneth Brannaw and Stanley Tucci. Oh, the Tuc, the Tuc,

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Speaker 2: the twoch playing Iikman Garrison.

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Speaker 5: Damn.

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Speaker 3: Alright, let's go on a break and then come back

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Speaker 3: to talk about episode two.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we're back.

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Speaker 2: Did you guys know, Uh, Stanley Tucci super pro Palestine.

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Speaker 4: That's cool.

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Speaker 2: Oh nice with an actor like that that I've really enjoyed.

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Speaker 2: I always am like white knuckling it if I when

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Speaker 2: I decided to google that, and I was pleasantly surprised

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Speaker 2: with the Tuc. All right, that's what I got here.

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Speaker 4: Let's do Episode two.

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Speaker 3: The Empire arrives on this farming planet to complete inspections

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Speaker 3: on Coruscant. Our little slimy weasel Sarril Karn keeps rising

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Speaker 3: through the the Imperial ladder at the Bureau of Standards.

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Speaker 3: Man Mathma's financial schemes to help secretly fund the rebellion

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Speaker 3: start coming undone as one of her like backers or

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Speaker 3: like the.

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Speaker 4: Guy who's moving the money around for her.

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Speaker 2: Yet he's helping her wash her money.

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Speaker 3: One of her collaborators, take Kola, starts to kind of

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Speaker 3: back out or ask for ask for some assistance, and

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Speaker 3: is getting a erratic in his behavior as he's going

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Speaker 3: through a divorce.

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Speaker 2: And is making kind of vague threats about well, maybe

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Speaker 2: I'll talk to someone about what I know, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, if I if I don't get something out of

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Speaker 3: this relationship, I might be forced to do something else

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Speaker 3: to ensure like my safety and financial security. Meanwhile, Cassian

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Speaker 3: is still on this jungle planet, held captive by these

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Speaker 3: by these sectarian leftists, start firing at each other and

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Speaker 3: totally totally break down.

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Speaker 2: Literal circular firing squad. It's beautiful.

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Speaker 4: They go full, they go full Red.

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Speaker 2: Army, Japanese Red Army, thank you very much.

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Speaker 3: Japanese Red Army, and Cassie and barely barely escapes over

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Speaker 3: the course of this like multi day like conflict with

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Speaker 3: the U, with the remnants of this rebellion cell, let's

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Speaker 3: talk a little bit about this uh leftist infighting plot point.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, this is something something I've never actually really seemed

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Speaker 4: to pick it in you kind of like mainstream media thing,

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Speaker 4: which is something that that happens in real movements, which

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Speaker 4: is that when when movements suffer serious setbacks or when

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Speaker 4: you know, and we see this more commonly in real life,

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Speaker 4: when sort of like you know, the tide of a

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Speaker 4: movement falls and everything starts falling apart. And these are

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Speaker 4: people who just got absolutely obliterated in a battle, of

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Speaker 4: their leaders dead, a bunch of their comrades died. One

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Speaker 4: of the things that happens is in this is that

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Speaker 4: this is when the this is when social movements evolve

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Speaker 4: into infighting, you know. And this, this is what was

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Speaker 4: happening inside of like the American Left roughly from twenty

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Speaker 4: twenty one to twenty twenty four was you got you

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Speaker 4: got this giant, really vicious cycle of infighting. Because this

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Speaker 4: is this what happens when there's no longer a threat

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Speaker 4: to hold. They've one together, and people have this tendency

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Speaker 4: to because they've just lost. Right, everyone's trying to process

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Speaker 4: the emotions of their defeat, of like the really serious

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Speaker 4: psychological damage that they've suffered. Like in these battles, people

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Speaker 4: lash out at each other because it's easier than trying

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Speaker 4: to fight an enemy that has just defeated you. And

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Speaker 4: you know, there's a complicating factor in this, which is that,

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Speaker 4: like you know, these are also the periods when like

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Speaker 4: rapists tend to get rean out right and when like

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Speaker 4: abusers in the scene tend to get ran out. But

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Speaker 4: on the other hand, Yeah, it turns into these really

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Speaker 4: really nasty sort of sometimes just sectarians. Sometimes they're just

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Speaker 4: sort of like, you know.

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Speaker 2: I never liked this guy. People are getting in trouble

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Speaker 2: for being bad. I'm going to just accuse this guy

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Speaker 2: of some.

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Speaker 4: Shit personality conflicts stuff.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah yeah.

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Speaker 4: And this is something that happens like every time there's

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Speaker 4: a cycle. I mean I remember this God like, I

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Speaker 4: mean you see this shit and scenes are like from

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Speaker 4: like like two thousand, like thirteen fourteen, there was like

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Speaker 4: a huge cycle of this. We're kind of cycles of

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Speaker 4: this like twenty nineteen when things were kind of falling apart.

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Speaker 4: As Occupy isis, this is just like something that's a

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Speaker 4: reality of social movements that you don't ever really see

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Speaker 4: to pick it. And the everything I think is fascinating

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Speaker 4: about it is because and Or is the person who's

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Speaker 4: watching it right, Andor has no idea what the fuck

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Speaker 4: is going on with the Chulton Amax of this group.

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Speaker 2: No, no, my pay is famous.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, he knows who like the leader is because Luthern's

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Speaker 3: team has been like supplying them with weapons. Yeah, but

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Speaker 3: they don't know about like the internal structures of these

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Speaker 3: groups for like OPSEC reason no.

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Speaker 2: And the leader's dead, like the leader got killed in

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Speaker 2: this ambush rights. You hear about her. She's named in

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Speaker 2: the first season my Pay. She's one of when when

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Speaker 2: Forrest Whitaker in season one gives that very famous rant

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Speaker 2: where he's talking about all because he's the anarchist militant

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Speaker 2: leader and he's talking about all the different groups set

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Speaker 2: Separati galaxy, they're lost, all of them, clarity of purpose.

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Speaker 2: He talks. He names my Pay along with the other

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Speaker 2: different So she's clearly a fairly well known I think

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Speaker 2: she's a republic restorationist kind of person, So basically a

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Speaker 2: social democrat militant leader and her group's just gotten fucked

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Speaker 2: and she is dead, so he knows of them, but

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Speaker 2: he doesn't know them.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and because of that, you get you get, you

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Speaker 4: get you get two things at the same time that

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Speaker 4: I think are both really important. One is that you

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Speaker 4: get to see what this kind of like infighting looks like,

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Speaker 4: right like like actually depicting television. You get to see

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Speaker 4: what happens when when movements fail and when people start

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Speaker 4: to invite. In two, you get to see what it

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Speaker 4: looks like from the outside from Andrew's perspective where he's

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Speaker 4: looking at these people, He's like, what the fuck is

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Speaker 4: wrong with you people? All of you guys are clowns.

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Speaker 3: These are fucking children, Like I'm doing a serious job.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, And this is also a thing that you get.

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Speaker 4: This is a real movement dynamic where it's like, you know,

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Speaker 4: you're watching people who after twenty twenty or something, you know,

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Speaker 4: you've been through your first movement and you're in your

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Speaker 4: first movement psycho collapse, right, you've been doing this, and

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Speaker 4: I'm like, you know, if you're doing this for like

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Speaker 4: a fucking decade and you're watching all of these people

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Speaker 4: do this shit again, and it's just like, oh god,

360
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Speaker 4: fucking damn it. Like the kids are like, you know,

361
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Speaker 4: they haven't been to this before. It's really traumatic, and

362
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Speaker 4: they're doing all this like completely incomprehensible bullshit, which is

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Speaker 4: also like on the outside, if you look into this

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Speaker 4: as someone who's not part of one of these scenes

365
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:11,280
Speaker 4: and you're seeing all this drama, it's just like, what

366
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Speaker 4: the fuck is wrong with you people? Like why are

367
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Speaker 4: you doing this? And the fact that you're getting all

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Speaker 4: of this like you know, fucking Disney Show is fascinating.

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Speaker 2: It's why I mean, and it shows the depth of

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Speaker 2: knowledge and the ya the sheer amount of understanding that

371
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Speaker 2: the people writing this have of how movements go. Again,

372
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Speaker 2: it's granular, and it's to a degree like based in

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Speaker 2: some real experiences that some people on this team have had,

374
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Speaker 2: Like you don't understand stuff like this otherwise.

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Speaker 3: And as this group is like interrogating Cassie and try

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Speaker 3: to trying to figure out who he is, Like they

377
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Speaker 3: keep trying to dig into like what rebel group Cassiine

378
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Speaker 3: is like a part of, and like who he's working with,

379
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Speaker 3: and he's like refusing to give them this information because

380
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Speaker 3: that's good security culture. And they're like, but you know

381
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Speaker 3: who we work with and he's like, yeah, you shouldn't

382
00:19:00,720 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 3: have told me yet, shouldn't have said that that was bad,

383
00:19:05,320 --> 00:19:06,440
Speaker 3: very very good stuff.

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Speaker 2: And it's God it starts, you know, we didn't say

385
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Speaker 2: this with with episode one. Episode one starts with another

386
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Speaker 2: beautiful Cassian speech when he's because he's he's infiltrating as

387
00:19:14,800 --> 00:19:17,159
Speaker 2: a tie fighter pilot this base where he's stealing an

388
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Speaker 2: experimental craft and there's a young woman there who's like

389
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,679
Speaker 2: a technician who is his in right and who's clearly

390
00:19:23,880 --> 00:19:27,119
Speaker 2: just made her break with the Empire, and she like

391
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,000
Speaker 2: meets him briefly. She's like, sorry, I know, I'm not

392
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Speaker 2: supposed to look at you. I'm not supposed to talk

393
00:19:30,640 --> 00:19:32,200
Speaker 2: to you, and he like grabs me. He's like, no,

394
00:19:32,560 --> 00:19:34,720
Speaker 2: this is what it's all about, is the moment of

395
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,320
Speaker 2: connection between us where we both after all of like

396
00:19:38,359 --> 00:19:41,240
Speaker 2: this being frightened and alone in the dark, were together

397
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Speaker 2: and we know that we're doing something. This is what

398
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Speaker 2: every this is, this is everything, and this is the

399
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Speaker 2: moment you find yourself.

400
00:19:48,480 --> 00:19:51,000
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, from yourself and this is an everything that

401
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:52,919
Speaker 4: that That was the moment in this season where I

402
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:54,720
Speaker 4: was like, oh, okay, so the people are it's still

403
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:56,840
Speaker 4: the same people. It's like these are people who are

404
00:19:56,880 --> 00:19:59,200
Speaker 4: just of the left in a way that you don't

405
00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:01,840
Speaker 4: really ever see even with like old communists who are

406
00:20:01,840 --> 00:20:06,240
Speaker 4: writing stuff. It's like I have given this speech to people, yeah,

407
00:20:06,280 --> 00:20:08,760
Speaker 4: like dozens and dozens of times, like this is the

408
00:20:08,800 --> 00:20:10,560
Speaker 4: thing that if you do this work, like you have

409
00:20:10,680 --> 00:20:14,040
Speaker 4: literally given this speech to a new person about like yeah, yeah,

410
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,800
Speaker 4: like this is the reason where and like it's just

411
00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:18,919
Speaker 4: fucking I'm just like my mind is blown that this

412
00:20:18,960 --> 00:20:22,280
Speaker 4: shit is just like appearing in mass media where people

413
00:20:22,320 --> 00:20:24,919
Speaker 4: who aren't from these movements are just like encountering this.

414
00:20:25,560 --> 00:20:27,879
Speaker 2: And the reason why again when I say and Or

415
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:33,240
Speaker 2: is like historically profitable. After the first season, every year afterwards,

416
00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:36,399
Speaker 2: for a couple of years, the number of people watching

417
00:20:36,440 --> 00:20:39,400
Speaker 2: it increased, which by which I mean each year after

418
00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,359
Speaker 2: it came out, more people watched it than had watched

419
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Speaker 2: it in the year it came out. And that doesn't

420
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Speaker 2: happen to TV. Yeah, it simply is not how television works,

421
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Speaker 2: which is why Disney was like, here is a quarter

422
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Speaker 2: of a billion dollars make and Or season two.

423
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Speaker 3: Man, this is the first time Star Wars has like

424
00:20:57,119 --> 00:20:59,320
Speaker 3: visually looked good in like a decade.

425
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Speaker 2: Yeah, oh my god, and it looks incredible.

426
00:21:02,560 --> 00:21:05,280
Speaker 4: It looks gorgeous, gorgeous.

427
00:21:06,240 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 3: There's so many super long like tracking shots this season

428
00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:12,240
Speaker 3: where they're going through like massive sets. Yeah, with all

429
00:21:12,320 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 3: like like singular like one takes, and like you know,

430
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,160
Speaker 3: all the previous Star Wars shows are filmed on these

431
00:21:17,160 --> 00:21:20,719
Speaker 3: like digital sound stages with like you know, led screen backgrounds,

432
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:23,959
Speaker 3: but like you cannot achieve this level of like in

433
00:21:24,119 --> 00:21:27,240
Speaker 3: real life like fidelity on like a digital background screen.

434
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Speaker 3: Like these are huge sets, Like specifically the Chandrilla set

435
00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:34,440
Speaker 3: is like massive as you walk around like modern Mathma's

436
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:37,320
Speaker 3: like senate estate or whatever for this for this tradcath

437
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:39,359
Speaker 3: wedding that we'll talk more about in the next episode. Yeah,

438
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 3: just like really really like excellent craftsmanship going into this.

439
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, just beautiful. Okay, speaking of beautiful set design. All right,

440
00:21:58,640 --> 00:21:59,120
Speaker 2: we're back.

441
00:21:59,480 --> 00:22:04,000
Speaker 3: Let's talk about the finale of this little three episode arc.

442
00:22:04,760 --> 00:22:09,320
Speaker 3: Cassian's trying to contact Lutheran and learns that his friends

443
00:22:09,359 --> 00:22:12,199
Speaker 3: on the farming planet are actually being subject to some

444
00:22:12,359 --> 00:22:15,520
Speaker 3: kind of imperial inspection. He's advised to not go there,

445
00:22:15,560 --> 00:22:17,520
Speaker 3: but of course he does anyway to check on his

446
00:22:17,560 --> 00:22:21,160
Speaker 3: friends as his Star Wars tradition a lah Luke skywalker.

447
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,840
Speaker 3: In episode five, people on this planet are trying to

448
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 3: evade this inspection by forging emergency work orders, but their

449
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,520
Speaker 3: scheme falls apart. They might have been rated out by

450
00:22:33,600 --> 00:22:37,520
Speaker 3: one of the top guys running the silo, and imperial

451
00:22:37,560 --> 00:22:39,959
Speaker 3: officers arrest and interrogate.

452
00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,560
Speaker 4: People for not having proper work visas.

453
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:45,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, and the people on this planet are Cassian's friends

454
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,640
Speaker 2: from season one who he lived with, like the guy

455
00:22:47,680 --> 00:22:49,359
Speaker 2: who was effectively his big brother.

456
00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:49,880
Speaker 4: Brasso.

457
00:22:50,119 --> 00:22:52,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, Brasso, the guy who hits the cop with the

458
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:54,119
Speaker 3: brick in the finale season one.

459
00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,400
Speaker 2: Your goddamn righty Brick's a cop. And then Bicks, who

460
00:22:57,440 --> 00:23:00,520
Speaker 2: is his girlfriend partner type person kind of off and on,

461
00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 2: and then because of her connections to him, gets horribly

462
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:04,560
Speaker 2: tortured in season one.

463
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,720
Speaker 3: Yeah, and as well as young terrorist Willem, who throws

464
00:23:08,760 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 3: a pipe bomb into a crowd of stormtroopers in the

465
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,800
Speaker 3: finale of season one. So these three are in hiding

466
00:23:13,880 --> 00:23:16,800
Speaker 3: on this farm planet and are now in trouble because

467
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:22,560
Speaker 3: these Imperial Inspections and immigration officers are are on their tail.

468
00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:27,399
Speaker 3: On Triandrilla, Man Mathma talks to Luthen, who's there for

469
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 3: for work because he's like he's like an he's like

470
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,240
Speaker 3: an artifact, like a dealer. But she tells Luthen that

471
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,560
Speaker 3: the guy that that they were working with to to

472
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,520
Speaker 3: help Man Mathma secretly fund the rebellion is showing some

473
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 3: erratic behavior and and and may and may need to

474
00:23:42,840 --> 00:23:46,960
Speaker 3: be like, you know, bribed to keep quiet. Luthen, being

475
00:23:47,320 --> 00:23:50,600
Speaker 3: smart and serious, knows that no, no, no, no no,

476
00:23:50,880 --> 00:23:53,640
Speaker 3: you cannot simply bribe this man into silence. This man

477
00:23:53,680 --> 00:23:56,439
Speaker 3: needs to get taken out right now. You need to

478
00:23:56,520 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 3: close this.

479
00:23:57,760 --> 00:24:02,159
Speaker 2: He brought in the cops like he brought him the

480
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,840
Speaker 2: fucking cops like he brought He has to die. That's

481
00:24:05,840 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 2: the way these.

482
00:24:06,359 --> 00:24:09,200
Speaker 3: Threatening to snitch. He This guy needs to get dealt

483
00:24:09,240 --> 00:24:13,080
Speaker 3: with immediately. The other plot point that I don't think

484
00:24:13,080 --> 00:24:16,240
Speaker 3: we'll have much talk about but is very excellent. Our

485
00:24:16,320 --> 00:24:21,080
Speaker 3: slimy weasel Cyril Carn and his new abusive girlfriend Dedra

486
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:28,280
Speaker 3: have have Cyril's wonderful mother over for dinner in just

487
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 3: a fantastic, fantastically uncomfortable seed. In less happy occurrences, as

488
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,840
Speaker 3: the Imperial officers investigate and search this farming planet, one

489
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,520
Speaker 3: of them tries to sexually assault Bix inside their little

490
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:46,879
Speaker 3: r V home. Bix kills him, and eventually and Or

491
00:24:47,040 --> 00:24:50,480
Speaker 3: arrives with a tie. Avenger takes out this this Imperial

492
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 3: battalion and Bix and and Or and the Kid are

493
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:59,520
Speaker 3: able to escape, and Brasso unfortunately dies in a high

494
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 3: speed speeder chase.

495
00:25:01,480 --> 00:25:03,800
Speaker 2: He dies. It's it's it's an under It's like a

496
00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,480
Speaker 2: believable move. Someone would make it under fire, But like man,

497
00:25:07,520 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 2: there's tall fucking grass. Just drop go to the ground.

498
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,560
Speaker 2: Don't get on a motorbike while you're above the fucking crops,

499
00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:15,520
Speaker 2: like get on the ground.

500
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,320
Speaker 4: High stressful environment.

501
00:25:19,280 --> 00:25:19,639
Speaker 2: Rights.

502
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:21,720
Speaker 4: It sucks, but it's but it's really people.

503
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 2: Do stuff like that all the time in gunfights. Yes,

504
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,120
Speaker 2: So it's it's one of those where I was like no,

505
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,840
Speaker 2: but also like, yep, that that's what happens. Yeah.

506
00:25:30,920 --> 00:25:33,600
Speaker 4: One of the things that isn't really being talked about

507
00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:35,199
Speaker 4: with the show, but I think it is actually is

508
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:39,840
Speaker 4: very important, is that it is absolutely unflinching in his

509
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:42,400
Speaker 4: depiction of patriarchy, Like I mean there's you know, there's

510
00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:46,920
Speaker 4: this sort of obvious, horrifying scene of like this ice guy.

511
00:25:47,280 --> 00:25:49,960
Speaker 4: I mean increasingly over over the course of this thing,

512
00:25:50,040 --> 00:25:53,680
Speaker 4: like just going from like hey, if you like date me,

513
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,440
Speaker 4: you can not get deported because we have to maintain

514
00:25:57,600 --> 00:25:59,840
Speaker 4: the I know you're illegal, and that's.

515
00:25:59,680 --> 00:26:01,639
Speaker 2: Fine, and we know we need a bunch of you.

516
00:26:01,720 --> 00:26:04,400
Speaker 2: We're not here to arrest everyone, right because we need

517
00:26:04,440 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 2: the crops from this planet. But I am going to

518
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:09,439
Speaker 2: arrest some people, and I can make sure it's not

519
00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:12,600
Speaker 2: you if you go on a quote unquote date.

520
00:26:12,480 --> 00:26:14,399
Speaker 4: With me, yeah, and then you know, and it's just

521
00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:17,280
Speaker 4: an escortates from there is just straight up like sexual assault, right,

522
00:26:17,680 --> 00:26:19,760
Speaker 4: and this is really really I mean obviously it's jarring

523
00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 4: because it's you know, like it's an on screenscript depiction

524
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:24,400
Speaker 4: of a tempto sexual assault and then she like does

525
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:26,520
Speaker 4: a fight and she kills them, right. But this was

526
00:26:26,520 --> 00:26:28,520
Speaker 4: also very very jarring to a lot of people because

527
00:26:28,560 --> 00:26:30,640
Speaker 4: people are very and this is a Star Wars thing too,

528
00:26:30,680 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 4: they are very used to seeing fascism depicted through its

529
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:34,920
Speaker 4: own self perception.

530
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:35,400
Speaker 2: Right.

531
00:26:35,840 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 4: People are very very used to seeing fascism as something

532
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:41,800
Speaker 4: that is strong, that is ordered, as discipline that is dangerous.

533
00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:45,479
Speaker 4: And the problem is the reality of fascism is that,

534
00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:47,879
Speaker 4: like a lot of it is just a bunch of

535
00:26:47,920 --> 00:26:51,640
Speaker 4: tipshit rapists who are like pretending to be those guys. Yeah,

536
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:53,200
Speaker 4: and you know, and this is one of the things

537
00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,720
Speaker 4: Andrew has always been very very good at is you

538
00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 4: saw this last season right with Withddra who is her

539
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,760
Speaker 4: thing is that she is, you know, of the very

540
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:02,800
Speaker 4: common American archetype of the cop who breaks all the

541
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:05,040
Speaker 4: rules to get the job done. And then you know,

542
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,240
Speaker 4: and then like that that's how she first is first introduced,

543
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,080
Speaker 4: and then you see what that actually looks like in public,

544
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:12,359
Speaker 4: which is you know, she is just straight up torturing

545
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,720
Speaker 4: bis with like the screams of an entire the desk

546
00:27:15,840 --> 00:27:19,720
Speaker 4: room of an entire species. And that's in season one. Yeah, yeah,

547
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,720
Speaker 4: that's the season one. And and what's powerful about this

548
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,480
Speaker 4: is something and Er also does int of the prison

549
00:27:24,520 --> 00:27:28,960
Speaker 4: break episodes, is like this this fascist self perception, right

550
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:31,879
Speaker 4: of this sort of strong ordered, discipline, unified thing that

551
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:34,520
Speaker 4: is just propaganda. They are not actually like that behind

552
00:27:34,520 --> 00:27:38,840
Speaker 4: the scenes, right, It's just these fucking incredibly violent, like

553
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:42,320
Speaker 4: petty losers doing this fucking shit. And then you know,

554
00:27:42,359 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 4: I mean the other thing about about the sort of

555
00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:45,440
Speaker 4: patriarchy side is that you see this on the other

556
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:47,840
Speaker 4: side with with mon Mathma's like, you know, her sort

557
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 4: of like money cleaner, who's who's what her old friends

558
00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:53,959
Speaker 4: take Coleman like like literally is is demanding that like

559
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 4: mo Mathma have sex with him in order for him

560
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,159
Speaker 4: to keep keep doing this money washing shit. And this

561
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:02,160
Speaker 4: is also something you see in movements all the time,

562
00:28:02,200 --> 00:28:05,439
Speaker 4: which is like guys with resources using their access to

563
00:28:05,480 --> 00:28:08,400
Speaker 4: resources to force themselves on women, like in the movements

564
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:10,000
Speaker 4: and this, and you know, and there's there's like A

565
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,040
Speaker 4: third dynamic here with with take homa, which is like

566
00:28:13,160 --> 00:28:15,359
Speaker 4: another thing you see all the time in movements is

567
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:18,480
Speaker 4: guy going through a divorce who goes completely off the

568
00:28:18,520 --> 00:28:22,520
Speaker 4: fucking rails and starts doing shit that dangers everyone and

569
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:24,880
Speaker 4: you know, starts doing sort of like weird predatory shit,

570
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 4: and I think, I don't know, there just hasn't been

571
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,880
Speaker 4: much analysis of like, yeah, this is these are all

572
00:28:30,840 --> 00:28:33,919
Speaker 4: ways things like if you have been in movements, you

573
00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:36,359
Speaker 4: have experienced patriarchy and all of these ways. You have

574
00:28:36,440 --> 00:28:40,400
Speaker 4: experienced cops doing shit to you, you have experienced stuff

575
00:28:40,400 --> 00:28:41,120
Speaker 4: from inside the movement.

576
00:28:41,480 --> 00:28:46,000
Speaker 2: Fuck. A big part of how the major Greens organizations

577
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 2: that were dismantling the Green Scare were taken down was

578
00:28:48,280 --> 00:28:50,800
Speaker 2: through members of these different groups who had been doing

579
00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:52,800
Speaker 2: direct action who were misogynists.

580
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 5: Right.

581
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:56,719
Speaker 2: That is always an easy, easy way to break into

582
00:28:56,920 --> 00:28:59,840
Speaker 2: and shatter a movement is find the guy who's got

583
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 2: that going on about him and turn him.

584
00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:03,160
Speaker 4: Yeah, and you know, and you have that on one hand.

585
00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 4: On the other hand, with like the cops, this is

586
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:08,200
Speaker 4: like a very very common like cops just like sexually

587
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:10,080
Speaker 4: assaulting people for fun. It's like a thing that they

588
00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:12,040
Speaker 4: do all the fucking time. And same thing with ice,

589
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 4: because I mean this is obviously like o't think you

590
00:29:14,280 --> 00:29:16,080
Speaker 4: say like this is this is just literally one to

591
00:29:16,160 --> 00:29:18,840
Speaker 4: one they're doing ice raids and Star Wars. Yeah, and

592
00:29:18,920 --> 00:29:22,040
Speaker 4: the heroes are the people who like and or coming

593
00:29:22,080 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 4: back with a tie fighter blowing them up right, like

594
00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 4: you know.

595
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah.

596
00:29:26,120 --> 00:29:28,240
Speaker 4: Also I do want to on someone landa know, I

597
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:30,680
Speaker 4: do want to point out that like this show also

598
00:29:30,760 --> 00:29:33,720
Speaker 4: quietly has had like the most realistic lesbian relationship in

599
00:29:33,760 --> 00:29:38,280
Speaker 4: all of Star Wars, and this season is like, oh,

600
00:29:38,560 --> 00:29:40,920
Speaker 4: someone on this crew is a lesbian because they have

601
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:44,760
Speaker 4: depicted my culture perfectly, which is h the you know, Okay,

602
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:47,680
Speaker 4: so like the rich girl lesbian and the like broke

603
00:29:47,840 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 4: non white like gorilla lesbian who came from nothing, his

604
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 4: family was killed by the Empire, get together as an

605
00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 4: intense item dread in operation and then the moment the

606
00:29:56,440 --> 00:29:59,160
Speaker 4: operation is over there broke girl was like, fuck, this

607
00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,920
Speaker 4: was a bad idea. And now they keep running into

608
00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:05,560
Speaker 4: each other in movement things that are like they're sort

609
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 4: of avoiding each other, and one of them is still

610
00:30:08,560 --> 00:30:11,760
Speaker 4: the perfect in fiction to lesbian culture. Incredible. No notes

611
00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 4: loved the lesbian rebels. I'm happy for them.

612
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 2: Oh incredible, Yeah, it's it's it's beautiful stuff. The quality

613
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:23,680
Speaker 2: of the writing, like everyone was worried who loved and

614
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,680
Speaker 2: or season one? Like well fuck, how could it? How

615
00:30:26,680 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: could they possibly? How can they possibly compare with Season one?

616
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:35,960
Speaker 2: And uh, it's just getting better. It's just they did

617
00:30:36,000 --> 00:30:39,080
Speaker 2: it again somehow, you crazy bastards. You did it again.

618
00:30:40,840 --> 00:30:43,520
Speaker 4: The thing I want to close on was with this wedding,

619
00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,800
Speaker 4: which is there's a bunch of really fascinating things about it.

620
00:30:46,840 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 4: One is that okay, so on the very nonsubtle level,

621
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,280
Speaker 4: like they are cutting back and forth between everyone dancing

622
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:54,840
Speaker 4: to this like sort of tech upbeat techno thing, Like

623
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 4: they're cutting back and forth between like mon Mathma dancing

624
00:30:57,560 --> 00:30:59,760
Speaker 4: at this wedding, and like the ice raid that's happening,

625
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 4: which is like, you know, this is the level of

626
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:04,400
Speaker 4: political subtlety that you need to be working on with

627
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 4: the American people. You have to just be like I'm

628
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 4: hammering you over the head with the point which is

629
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:11,640
Speaker 4: like all of you motherfuckers are going to brunch and like, yeah,

630
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:12,880
Speaker 4: the ice rays are happening.

631
00:31:13,120 --> 00:31:16,080
Speaker 3: Well, that is an aspect. I think it also proves

632
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:19,080
Speaker 3: there you can operate in that zone because men Mouthma

633
00:31:19,080 --> 00:31:20,200
Speaker 3: is still a very important figure.

634
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:25,120
Speaker 2: Yes, starting is not just a useless lib, right, she's critical.

635
00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:27,280
Speaker 3: And you have someone like like Lucian who can put

636
00:31:27,280 --> 00:31:30,520
Speaker 3: on nice clothes, can can do this persona and extract

637
00:31:30,680 --> 00:31:32,480
Speaker 3: intel at this party In one in one of the

638
00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 3: previous episodes, he's like talking with this guy who introduces

639
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:37,560
Speaker 3: his son who is in the Imperial Navy, and he

640
00:31:37,640 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 3: was talking about like like like a like a recent

641
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:42,720
Speaker 3: operation on a planet, and Luten was like, oh, really

642
00:31:42,920 --> 00:31:45,239
Speaker 3: tell me more, and like it's like you can, you can.

643
00:31:45,280 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 3: You can still extract information at these like places where

644
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,400
Speaker 3: power is like flaunted and exchanged. Yes they are still bad,

645
00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 3: but if you are like an aspiring rebel, yeah you

646
00:31:55,320 --> 00:31:57,960
Speaker 3: can use these places to your advantage. But no, there

647
00:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: absolutely still is this is this juxta position of yeah,

648
00:32:01,400 --> 00:32:05,400
Speaker 3: this like you know riotous party with with like this

649
00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,479
Speaker 3: horrific ice raid and yeah, the material conditions in these

650
00:32:09,600 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 3: people's lives is very different. Even even if mont Mathma's

651
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,000
Speaker 3: doing good stuff still as like an Imperial senator, her

652
00:32:16,040 --> 00:32:18,760
Speaker 3: everyday life is very different to complete someone who's having

653
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 3: to hide from like ice agents.

654
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 4: Now.

655
00:32:21,000 --> 00:32:23,080
Speaker 2: The other thing though, that is going on in this scene.

656
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:26,600
Speaker 2: It's not purely these are the wealthy partying as these

657
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: nightmare raids go down. The other thing that's going on

658
00:32:29,240 --> 00:32:32,600
Speaker 2: is mon Mathma is emotionally accepting this guy who was

659
00:32:32,600 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: was my lover for a long time and who is

660
00:32:35,680 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 2: a dear friend of mine is going to be killed.

661
00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,080
Speaker 2: And I have accepted the necessity. And the only thing

662
00:32:42,120 --> 00:32:43,600
Speaker 2: for me to do right now is to get so

663
00:32:43,680 --> 00:32:44,840
Speaker 2: drunk that I can't feel it.

664
00:32:45,640 --> 00:32:47,960
Speaker 4: Yeah, is to do drugs, wreck drink.

665
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:53,080
Speaker 3: And that's how you exist under like the horrific conditions

666
00:32:53,080 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 3: that the Empire forces you to live under.

667
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:54,960
Speaker 5: Yeah.

668
00:32:55,200 --> 00:32:56,000
Speaker 2: Yeah.

669
00:32:56,200 --> 00:32:59,200
Speaker 4: And there's this fascinating thing. And I know this especially

670
00:32:59,200 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 4: watching back season one. If you look at it, if

671
00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:03,080
Speaker 4: you go back and watch those scenes and you look

672
00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:04,640
Speaker 4: at the way it's lit. You look at the way

673
00:33:04,640 --> 00:33:08,200
Speaker 4: that there's just the stark like white light coming through

674
00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:10,400
Speaker 4: the windows. This is not how it's lit in season one, right,

675
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 4: This is a very deliberate choice. Almost everyone else who

676
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 4: does this scene would do this sort of like warm, rich,

677
00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,160
Speaker 4: like golden lighting, because that's like that's how you do

678
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 4: these sort of like fancy wedding things. And this the

679
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:23,360
Speaker 4: way that it is lit is the same way that

680
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 4: they're lighting all of the like like the stark white

681
00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,360
Speaker 4: imperial corridors, and there's this very you know, and so

682
00:33:28,480 --> 00:33:30,280
Speaker 4: like like it's working on like all of these sort

683
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,600
Speaker 4: of like levels of like like visual metaphor of of

684
00:33:34,640 --> 00:33:36,760
Speaker 4: all of this just like oh yeah, this is also

685
00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:41,040
Speaker 4: imperial space, right, and everyone here is operating either like

686
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,520
Speaker 4: regardless of what side they're on, they're operating like in

687
00:33:43,640 --> 00:33:47,200
Speaker 4: imperial terrain in this sort of like thing. As Asma

688
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:49,560
Speaker 4: Motha also was just dealing with like her kid becoming

689
00:33:49,600 --> 00:33:51,760
Speaker 4: a tradcath and like trying to talk her kid out

690
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,760
Speaker 4: of being a tradcat or a kid. FU share at

691
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 4: her for being like, hey, maybe you shouldn't do this

692
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 4: like weird marriage thing when you're like a child, like

693
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:03,520
Speaker 4: twelve year old marriage. Yea, yeah, yeah, I think I

694
00:34:03,560 --> 00:34:05,000
Speaker 4: think the place I want to end on is there

695
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,880
Speaker 4: was a really interesting thing where like the Disney account

696
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 4: like just posted a video like I think it was

697
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:13,319
Speaker 4: on Twitter that was just one the like one hour

698
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:16,680
Speaker 4: of monthmaed dancing. Yeah, And there was like a fascinating

699
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,640
Speaker 4: reaction to this of like like cause on the one hand,

700
00:34:19,680 --> 00:34:22,239
Speaker 4: there's like always people like who I know, Victoria Zeller,

701
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:25,279
Speaker 4: who's a trans writer who I follow, who probably we're

702
00:34:25,320 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 4: talking to on the show at some point soon I

703
00:34:27,200 --> 00:34:28,440
Speaker 4: had this thing, but like, oh yeah, like there are

704
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,040
Speaker 4: also there's just gonna be weddings that are like based

705
00:34:31,080 --> 00:34:33,000
Speaker 4: on this chenduline wedding thing, and like in like two

706
00:34:33,160 --> 00:34:35,440
Speaker 4: or three years, we're gonna be seeing this And there's

707
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 4: just interesting dynamic where like on the one hand you

708
00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,000
Speaker 4: have the people who were just completely focused on the aesthetic,

709
00:34:40,719 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 4: and then the other hand you have the people who

710
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 4: were like, oh yeah, I like this is this is

711
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:47,759
Speaker 4: fucking me getting just absolutely fucked up as like all

712
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,000
Speaker 4: of the fucking horrors play out around us and having

713
00:34:51,040 --> 00:34:53,360
Speaker 4: to like deal with and fight all the fucking horrors

714
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 4: while like all of the people around me are just

715
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 4: like kind of just completely checked out. And I thought

716
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:01,680
Speaker 4: it was just like fascinating watching that sort of play

717
00:35:01,680 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 4: out on social media and on in real life like this,

718
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 4: you know, they're being very very literal about how it works,

719
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,920
Speaker 4: and it's working. I'm seeing people do it.

720
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:12,239
Speaker 5: Yeah.

721
00:35:13,440 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 3: The last thing I do want to mention is just

722
00:35:15,960 --> 00:35:19,080
Speaker 3: a big shout out to Cyril. To Cyril Karn's Italian

723
00:35:19,160 --> 00:35:19,719
Speaker 3: Jewish mother.

724
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:25,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, oh yeah, the best, the best villain in Star Wars.

725
00:35:25,520 --> 00:35:28,080
Speaker 2: Darth Vader ain't got shit.

726
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:30,400
Speaker 4: Not nearly as scary as Cerrel Krn's mother.

727
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:32,799
Speaker 2: No, I would take him in a fight over her

728
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:33,439
Speaker 2: any day.

729
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,360
Speaker 3: How However, one of the interesting parts about this little

730
00:35:37,360 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 3: like like dinner party is how Cyril Krn's like FBI

731
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,520
Speaker 3: agent abusive girlfriend. The moment Cyril is out of the room,

732
00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,399
Speaker 3: she like takes control of this mother, using like all

733
00:35:48,440 --> 00:35:53,600
Speaker 3: of her like imperial interrogation and like intimidation tactics, and

734
00:35:53,600 --> 00:35:55,600
Speaker 3: it's like, no, no, no, you don't understand how this

735
00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:57,879
Speaker 3: relationship is going to go. I am in charge here.

736
00:35:57,960 --> 00:36:01,399
Speaker 3: I will dictate when Cyril can see how. I will

737
00:36:01,480 --> 00:36:04,719
Speaker 3: dictate how your relationship with your son is going to go,

738
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 3: because like Cyril is like my pet, like I run

739
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:11,520
Speaker 3: everything and things will go according to my wishes.

740
00:36:11,760 --> 00:36:14,600
Speaker 2: See. I had a very different interpretation of that really,

741
00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 2: because number one, she is not on board she's going

742
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:21,280
Speaker 2: to be doing part of the Gorman genocide. She doesn't

743
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,800
Speaker 2: like the plan, she doesn't like that she's involved. This

744
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 2: is not what she wants to be doing. She wants

745
00:36:25,320 --> 00:36:27,560
Speaker 2: to be hunting Luth yes, I agreed, And I think

746
00:36:27,560 --> 00:36:30,000
Speaker 2: part of it is that she doesn't like and I

747
00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:33,120
Speaker 2: think this will become increasingly clear she's not thrilled that

748
00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:35,680
Speaker 2: Cyril's going to get involved in this shit because it's

749
00:36:35,760 --> 00:36:38,719
Speaker 2: dangerous what I thought they were kind of showing. We've

750
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:41,319
Speaker 2: been seeing her like abuse him. I don't think we've

751
00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 2: seen her be mean to him other than like initially

752
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,399
Speaker 2: when that before they were dating, she didn't take him

753
00:36:46,400 --> 00:36:48,000
Speaker 2: seriously until she saved her life.

754
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,080
Speaker 3: Well, I know he's like a weird stalker beforehand, he is.

755
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:53,319
Speaker 2: A little bit of a stock and.

756
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 3: She is, like I think you can absolutely interpret some

757
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:58,719
Speaker 3: of some of her behavior as like a degree of

758
00:36:58,760 --> 00:36:59,680
Speaker 3: like emotionally.

759
00:36:59,280 --> 00:37:02,440
Speaker 2: Abu says fascist couple before their dating.

760
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:05,080
Speaker 4: Yeah, maybe I don't know fascist for fascist couple.

761
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,560
Speaker 3: I think there's elements and including like the earlier scene

762
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:10,960
Speaker 3: of them in the apartment, where like both of them

763
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:13,040
Speaker 3: are like very uncomfortable around each other.

764
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:17,680
Speaker 2: They're awkward people, but like they're I one of the

765
00:37:17,719 --> 00:37:20,560
Speaker 2: things I appreciated about this is that like she is

766
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:24,399
Speaker 2: a monster. We see her doing exclusively evil things, and

767
00:37:24,440 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 2: then Cyril, because his mom is so cruel to him,

768
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,680
Speaker 2: does the most relatable thing anyone does in this show

769
00:37:30,760 --> 00:37:32,719
Speaker 2: and goes and lies down on his bed and has

770
00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 2: a panic attack in the middle of their dinner. And

771
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 2: that's when she and that's when she says, look, bitch,

772
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,600
Speaker 2: this is how shit's and she's being a good girlfriend

773
00:37:41,600 --> 00:37:43,399
Speaker 2: in that moment, she's getting his mom off his back.

774
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,640
Speaker 4: I definitely interpret this scene differently. She did also threaten

775
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:48,320
Speaker 4: to arrest his uncle, like.

776
00:37:51,719 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 3: She does threaten to send his uncle to forever jail. Yeah, no,

777
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,200
Speaker 3: I can see how you would read it that way.

778
00:37:57,400 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: I think I definitely do interpret this scene a little

779
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,359
Speaker 3: bit differ. Yeah, And I think the beauty of good

780
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 3: writing is this ability to look at this relationship in

781
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:05,400
Speaker 3: multiple ways.

782
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 2: What I like about the way The Empire is written

783
00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,080
Speaker 2: is that they're not caricatures, but not in a way

784
00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:13,400
Speaker 2: where they're being like, well, the Empire's got a point,

785
00:38:13,440 --> 00:38:16,000
Speaker 2: but in the way that like, yeah, these are people,

786
00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: and I understand how folks, why folks would want to

787
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,239
Speaker 2: be a part of this system outside of just like

788
00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 2: the cruelty that it does. Like Partigaz, who is like

789
00:38:25,960 --> 00:38:29,239
Speaker 2: the leader of the ISB section that we're watching, is

790
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:32,960
Speaker 2: a really good boss. He listens to his subordinates. He

791
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:35,400
Speaker 2: tells them when their ideas suck. He does not spare

792
00:38:35,480 --> 00:38:40,120
Speaker 2: their feelings, but he's he rewards initiative and he's willing

793
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:43,799
Speaker 2: to like be proven wrong or argued with, Like when

794
00:38:43,840 --> 00:38:46,319
Speaker 2: people are forceful against him and make a good point,

795
00:38:46,320 --> 00:38:48,400
Speaker 2: He's like, all right, well let's try it. And I

796
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:50,759
Speaker 2: love showcasing that in the same way that like, if

797
00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:53,160
Speaker 2: you talk to people who worked for, like work for

798
00:38:53,200 --> 00:38:55,799
Speaker 2: companies like Raytheon, they'll be like, yeah, it was a

799
00:38:55,880 --> 00:38:58,439
Speaker 2: nightmare evil that we were making, and like a very

800
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 2: healthy working environment. And that is often the case with

801
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:05,480
Speaker 2: some of the most evil organizations on the planet, Like

802
00:39:05,600 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 2: people who are very good at managing people often wind

803
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:13,399
Speaker 2: up Like That's what makes fascist systems so dangerous. It's

804
00:39:13,440 --> 00:39:15,879
Speaker 2: not that everyone in this is incompetent. It's that there

805
00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:19,359
Speaker 2: are sometimes people who are very good organizers and very

806
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:23,239
Speaker 2: competent leaders who wind up in these systems, and that's

807
00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:25,200
Speaker 2: part of what allows the evil to happen.

808
00:39:25,440 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 4: The point of Android, the point of Star Wars is

809
00:39:27,239 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 4: that also you could out organize them and beat them.

810
00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:35,040
Speaker 2: So message of hope, yes, yes, I mean fundamentally the

811
00:39:35,080 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: show is very hopeful because the empire. Number one, we

812
00:39:38,040 --> 00:39:41,160
Speaker 2: know the empire falls, but number two we're seeing we're

813
00:39:41,160 --> 00:39:45,320
Speaker 2: seeing like why right, which is this attempt to control

814
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:49,600
Speaker 2: everything that inevitably creates more fires than you can put out.

815
00:39:49,960 --> 00:39:50,240
Speaker 4: Yeah.

816
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,200
Speaker 3: The tighter they hold their grip, the more systems will

817
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,280
Speaker 3: slip through their fingers. Yeah, yep, which is the line

818
00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,120
Speaker 3: from the theory twin in season one.

819
00:39:58,320 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 5: Yeah.

820
00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 3: And I think what makes androwsist is this, This does

821
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,160
Speaker 3: fill in this gap of like when we jump into

822
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 3: like a new hope, you have this fully like complete

823
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:08,680
Speaker 3: like rebel alliance, right. It is It is an alliance

824
00:40:08,719 --> 00:40:10,920
Speaker 3: of different rebel cells that have come together to do

825
00:40:11,000 --> 00:40:14,120
Speaker 3: like like a large scale military action. It takes a

826
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:16,600
Speaker 3: lot of build up to get an alliance of rebel cells,

827
00:40:17,040 --> 00:40:19,760
Speaker 3: a whole bunch of like individual like rebel terrorist cells

828
00:40:20,040 --> 00:40:22,800
Speaker 3: have usually have a very hard time working with each other. Yes,

829
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:25,360
Speaker 3: and it's very hard forget them to coordinate and and

830
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:28,960
Speaker 3: or is the story of watching these like many different

831
00:40:29,040 --> 00:40:32,279
Speaker 3: cells slowly start to figure out that maybe it would

832
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:34,799
Speaker 3: make more sense if we work together instead of just

833
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:38,320
Speaker 3: doing random small crimes and like hits on individual planets

834
00:40:38,400 --> 00:40:42,400
Speaker 3: or imperial processing plants. The ability to see these cells

835
00:40:42,440 --> 00:40:45,720
Speaker 3: come together is what makes I think and Or so special.

836
00:40:45,960 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 3: And and for the rest of the season, we're going

837
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,239
Speaker 3: to move forward a year at a time, all the

838
00:40:50,239 --> 00:40:52,960
Speaker 3: way up to the beginning of Rogue. More than we

839
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:56,319
Speaker 3: do have the like the completed Rebel Alliance. So I

840
00:40:56,360 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 3: am I'm excited to watch that that development.

841
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,680
Speaker 2: Yep, all right, well, see you next week.

842
00:41:04,440 --> 00:41:06,960
Speaker 1: It Could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

843
00:41:07,120 --> 00:41:10,200
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

844
00:41:10,280 --> 00:41:13,839
Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

845
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,480
Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts. You can

846
00:41:17,520 --> 00:41:19,880
Speaker 1: now find sources for it Could Happen here, listed directly

847
00:41:19,880 --> 00:41:22,120
Speaker 1: in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.