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Speaker 1: This is the Meeater podcast coming at you shirtless, severely,

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Speaker 1: bug bitten, and in my case, underwear.

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Speaker 2: Listeningcast, you can't predict anything.

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Speaker 1: The meat Eater podcast is brought to you by First Light.

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Speaker 1: Whether you're checking trail cams, hanging deer stands, or scouting

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Speaker 1: for el First Light has performance apparel to support every

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Speaker 1: hunter in every environment. Check it out at first light

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Speaker 1: dot com. F I R S T L I t

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Speaker 1: e dot com. Hey guys, if you like watching the

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Speaker 1: podcasts from the meat Eater podcast Network on YouTube, you

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Speaker 1: need to get your little butt over to the meat

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Speaker 1: Eater Podcast Network, which is a whole new channel on

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Speaker 1: YouTube different from the normal me Eater YouTube channel. You

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Speaker 1: need to take action here. Go to the meat Eater

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Speaker 1: pod cast Network on YouTube and subscribe. Keep your subscription

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Speaker 1: to the other thing and you'll be subscribed to both

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Speaker 1: and you'll get all of our podcast videos there. Going forward,

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Speaker 1: they will not be where they used to live. Go

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Speaker 1: to the new place. Thank you. Like turn a machine on, Phil,

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Speaker 1: We're on, We'll start the show. Yeah, I was all

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Speaker 1: fired up, Yoanni just put one of those little magnifying

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Speaker 1: lenses in his in his thing. Yeah, because you lose

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Speaker 1: because your pins get blurry.

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Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, having two pins, well I still have

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Speaker 3: two pins about seeing four.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you're gonna want to take it right back out.

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Speaker 1: Here's what you're gonna want to do. I went down

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Speaker 1: that whole path.

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Speaker 4: Okay, and this is in the peep site.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So when you're when you start getting old man vision, okay,

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Speaker 1: and you need reading glasses, your pin when you're shooting archer,

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Speaker 1: your pin and gets blurry and so you know it

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Speaker 1: starts to affect your accuracy. So then you get go

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Speaker 1: down and get one of them little what they called.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, it's a claire no, yeah, go clarify whatever helps.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and you put it in and you can get

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Speaker 1: different magnifications, right, and you look and you're like, it's

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Speaker 1: like the heavens have opened and there's your pin and

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Speaker 1: all that's glory.

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Speaker 5: And this is my experience to a t.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and you think this is the greatest thing in

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Speaker 1: the world. I'm gonna start just you know, Robin Hood

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Speaker 1: and all my arrows. Then it's gonna happen. You're gonna

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Speaker 1: wind up in Hawaii, right, it's gonna be getting dark. Okay.

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Speaker 1: You're looking in that thick vegetation, and here comes a

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Speaker 1: black hog.

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Speaker 5: I think I was there for this.

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Speaker 1: You're gonna pull back and you're not, and you're not

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Speaker 1: even gonna be able to see the hog. The hog

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Speaker 1: will cease to exist, and you'd be like, what happened?

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Speaker 1: And you let down and you look in areas and

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Speaker 1: then you draw back. How does he keep doing that?

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Speaker 1: And you let don look, he's still there and you

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Speaker 1: draw back. That's what's gonna happen to you, my friend.

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Speaker 1: Joy Today by Muskie Fisherman Guide author someone who's devoted

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Speaker 1: his life to muskie history, Larry Ramsell Ramsell, Ramsell, What

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Speaker 1: do you like? Larry Ramsel Ramsell fresh out of Wisconsin.

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Speaker 1: We recently we had a number of episodes recently where

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Speaker 1: we brought up controversies surrounding the muscle Lunge. How do

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Speaker 1: you like to say it?

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Speaker 2: That's proper Okay, we call him Muskies, of course, but

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Speaker 2: proper name is muscle.

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Speaker 1: N A lot of controversies around Muskies. Oh boy, people

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Speaker 1: being like I caught the real world record, but they

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Speaker 1: won't accept it. And we kept saying, and I said,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna get a we should find a certified real

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Speaker 1: musky expert. A number of people wrote in saying, if

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Speaker 1: you're going to talk to the real musky expert, the

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Speaker 1: man at the end of the line.

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Speaker 6: Let's hope that's a turner phrase.

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Speaker 1: It'd be lair I just made that up. It's good.

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Speaker 1: It'd be Larry Ramsell right that down.

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Speaker 2: I may. I may not know what questions you're going

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Speaker 2: to ask, but I'll know the answer to at least

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Speaker 2: ninety five percent of them.

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Speaker 1: Here's one, I bet you know the answer to this.

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Speaker 1: How'd you wind up getting into muskies? How'd you get like?

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Speaker 1: How'd you become a muskie fanatic? You know? And are

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Speaker 1: you part of the muskie community?

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Speaker 2: Yes, I am. I'm lean it up to my ears.

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Speaker 2: My dad started with the neighbor, caught a nice fish

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Speaker 2: and then opened the door.

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Speaker 1: And where we went at what age?

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Speaker 2: Well, I was probably seven or eight when he started

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Speaker 2: catching him, but I caught my first legal one when

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Speaker 2: I was thirteen and been at it for three years.

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Speaker 1: Wow. You guys probably ate them back then, huh?

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Speaker 2: I ate every one of them.

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Speaker 1: Can I tell you like an apocryphal family story and

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Speaker 1: you can tell me if you've ever heard of this? Okay,

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Speaker 1: perhaps apocryphal family story. My maternal grandfather was a musky fishermen.

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Speaker 2: I heard that on your podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he likes to talk about They would harness rigged

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Speaker 1: chipmunk yep and put it on a board out in

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Speaker 1: the pond, and then you paddle the shore and pull

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Speaker 1: the chipmunk off the board with your ride and then

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Speaker 1: let it swim around out there. Is that a true

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Speaker 1: musky fishing technique of days gone by?

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Speaker 2: Possibly? Okay, But you can substitute squirrels, cats, cats, anything.

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Speaker 1: So you've heard these stories?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yes, have you witnessed some of these stories?

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Speaker 2: No? Not that one?

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Speaker 1: Okay, So I can't tell Like, okay, I'm gonna keep

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Speaker 1: telling that story. Where'd you grow up?

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Speaker 2: I grew up in Illinois and we faced always in Wisconsin,

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Speaker 2: Hayward area, okay, started when knee high grasshopper and still

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Speaker 2: at it. Live three miles outside of town and go

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Speaker 2: to Canada to catch muskies.

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Speaker 1: You don't fish Wisconsin much, not much.

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Speaker 2: I faced one half a day last week, but I

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Speaker 2: faced three weeks here in Canada. That's where the big

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Speaker 2: ones are.

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Speaker 1: Got it? If you had to define the musky community,

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Speaker 1: what would you say? It is? Like? Why is the

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Speaker 1: muskie community different than other fishing communities.

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Speaker 2: Well, they're a very dedicated lot and they're all very

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Speaker 2: conservation oriented, wanting to preserve the species. Got it the

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Speaker 2: way the sport has increased in the last fifty years.

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Speaker 2: Had there not been catch and release come into vogue,

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Speaker 2: there wouldn't be any left, do you think so? Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: guarantee they had to fry them all. They would have

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Speaker 2: fried them all, you think. So. It takes some five

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Speaker 2: to six years before they spawn, and they're not very

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Speaker 2: productive at that raid, and then they'll live to twenty

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Speaker 2: to thirty years old, and it takes a long plime

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Speaker 2: to for them to get there, and they're too valuable

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Speaker 2: to catch just once. There's legions of stories of the

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Speaker 2: same fish being called multiple times due to catch and release,

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Speaker 2: which takes the pressure off the fishery and shows that

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Speaker 2: catch and release does work if they're properly handled.

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Speaker 1: Well, was the last time you ate one?

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Speaker 2: Oh, it's been quite a while. I can't even remember

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Speaker 2: the taste, but I will tell you they were good.

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Speaker 5: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: What was the favorite preparation back then?

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Speaker 2: My dad liked to skin them and then have Mom

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Speaker 2: bake them in a whole piece In fact, I had

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Speaker 2: my wife do on one time I left the head

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Speaker 2: on that she put an apple in the mouth the

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Speaker 2: whole seriously. Yeah, yeah, I've got a picture. It's pretty

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Speaker 2: cool looking.

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Speaker 1: How well he been married?

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Speaker 2: Which time?

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Speaker 1: Oh, the first time?

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Speaker 2: The first time was ten years, the second time was seventeen,

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Speaker 2: the third time was I don't know three or four?

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Speaker 1: What do you think those were all too much fishing?

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Speaker 6: Probably just give it a cumulative number then just say

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Speaker 6: forty one.

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Speaker 2: I've been living with the gal I live with now

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Speaker 2: for fifteen years, but we're not married, So that whole

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Speaker 2: scene's working out better than.

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Speaker 1: Has fishing torn you apart in your relationships.

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Speaker 2: I think there was a lot more to it than

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Speaker 2: just fishing. Yeah, I probably spent money. I didn't have

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Speaker 2: to spend chasing fish, but yeah, I got you shut out.

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Speaker 2: I should say, musky is the only thing I fished for?

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Speaker 1: Well, at what point were you just all muskies all

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Speaker 1: the time?

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Speaker 2: Right off the bat?

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Speaker 1: Is that right?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? I mean when I was a kid and try

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Speaker 2: to catch a walleye off the dock, you know, for

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Speaker 2: something to do, but when it was time to get

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Speaker 2: in the boat, it was musky road only.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, how many states.

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Speaker 2: You fish muskies in twenty two states and two provinces

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Speaker 2: of Canada.

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Speaker 1: Okay, how many states are they from?

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Speaker 2: Right now? There's thirty eight states that have muskies or

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Speaker 2: tiger muskies. No, no, no, no, I mean.

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Speaker 1: Where is the fish native to and where all has

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Speaker 1: it been spread to.

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Speaker 2: The upper Midwest Wisconsin, Minnesota, Michigan, Ohio, Pennsylvania, New York,

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Speaker 2: the Ohio River system through down into Kentucky. There's muskies

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Speaker 2: in Tennessee. They did at one time range as far

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Speaker 2: as northern Alabama native, but they're not there anymore, Okay.

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Speaker 2: And then you know, people started catching them and there's

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Speaker 2: such pressure got on the fisheries that the dn R

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Speaker 2: for inst in Wisconsin had to build two of the

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Speaker 2: world's finest musky hatchers just to keep up with the

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Speaker 2: harvest of one hundred thousand muskies a year. And they

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Speaker 2: just couldn't keep up with it. So that's why catch

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Speaker 2: and release and you called it two point oh, it's

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Speaker 2: been two point oh since the late seventies'.

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Speaker 1: Oh that's when the musky that's when catch and release

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Speaker 1: took hold so way before other fisheries.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and what happened early on I analyzed it in reverse.

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Speaker 2: They did it wrong. As people got into catch and release,

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Speaker 2: they let the little ones go and kept the big ones. Well,

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Speaker 2: it should be just the opposite. And that's why now

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Speaker 2: the trophy waters. Like, for instance, in Ontario, when I

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Speaker 2: first started fishing there, the size it was twenty eight

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Speaker 2: inches a day, two fish per day.

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Speaker 1: Where was that again?

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Speaker 2: In what in Ontario?

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Speaker 1: Okay MEI limit again?

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Speaker 2: Pardon me? In Ontario it was twenty eight inches to

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Speaker 2: a day.

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Speaker 1: Okay, minimum size twenty eight inches, right, I got you.

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Speaker 2: Then after some studies were done and they found out

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Speaker 2: that there was two different strains of fish, and we'll

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Speaker 2: get into that probably a little bit too. But uh,

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Speaker 2: there are lakes that grow big fish and lakes that

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Speaker 2: never grow big fish. So Ontario picked out their trophy lakes,

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Speaker 2: the ones that had the potential to grow big fish,

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Speaker 2: and put a fifty four inch size limit on them.

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Speaker 2: Quite a change from the hell a jump, yeah, quite

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Speaker 2: a change from twenty I.

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Speaker 1: Remember everybody's worked up when when I was a kid

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Speaker 1: and they moved northern from twenty one to twenty four,

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Speaker 1: you just thought they'd you.

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Speaker 2: Know, yeah, yeah, yeah, there's you know, my dad never

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Speaker 2: released the musky's life. In fact, he netted one ones

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Speaker 2: that I released. It's because he wanted it back in

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Speaker 2: the boat. He wanted to eat it. That was just

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's that was the mode that he grew

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Speaker 2: up fish and muskies in. And uh huh, I couldn't

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Speaker 2: convince him to catch and release was a good idea.

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Speaker 5: So what's the difference between like a big fish lake

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Speaker 5: and a small fish lake? Is it forage or uh?

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Speaker 2: That's part of it, But the biggest thing is genetics.

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Speaker 1: Okay, and yeah, you think so.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, But let me also clarify that I don't know

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Speaker 2: if I buy that, Larry, there are two different fish. Okay,

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Speaker 2: Doctor Lebaux tries to say there's two different species. The

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Speaker 2: most the fishery world isn't buying that, but yet they

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Speaker 2: kind of buy it when they went to a fifty

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Speaker 2: four in size limit for the trophy lakes. Well, the

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Speaker 2: lakes here's here's how it works. The lakes that's always

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Speaker 2: had muskies but never had pike are called alapatrick. Those

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Speaker 2: populations spawn once and have no competition from pikes, so

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Speaker 2: they don't grow. Big waters like the Saint Lawrence River

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Speaker 2: and the Georgian Bay and you know Lake here On

236
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Speaker 2: like Saint Clair, those waters have always had pike in them.

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Speaker 2: That's called sympatrick. So those fish have the potential to

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Speaker 2: grow big, and they've evolved a different strategy for spawning.

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Speaker 2: They spawn in deeper water then the muskies. In the

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Speaker 2: muskies only lakes and they spawn twice. That's because they

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Speaker 2: broadcast their eggs. They don't guard them. They don't like

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Speaker 2: a northern pike. When they spawn, their eggs will stick

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Speaker 2: to weeds, keep them out of the muck in the

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Speaker 2: bottom of the lake. The muskies they just dump their

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Speaker 2: spawning then where it goes, that's where it goes. So

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Speaker 2: that's why their reproductive percentage is very, very small, and

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Speaker 2: that's why the stocking where there's any kind of pressure

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Speaker 2: at all is necessary to keep the fishers going, even

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Speaker 2: if it's a native like let alone, one that started

250
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Speaker 2: out of being a stock lake. So it's just a

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Speaker 2: matter of the fish that evolved with pike evolved to

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Speaker 2: do things different and grow bigger. For instance, most of

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Speaker 2: the early studies that are done on eggs in muskies

254
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Speaker 2: were anywhere from one hundred thousand to two hundred and

255
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Speaker 2: fifty thousand with a big mature female. Big using the

256
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Speaker 2: term loosely, But what we found was that the bigger

257
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Speaker 2: fish in the simpatric waters like Eagle Lake or Georgian

258
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Speaker 2: Bay or sing Launch River, they spawn twice, and they

259
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Speaker 2: can have up to eight hundred and fifty thousand eggs,

260
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Speaker 2: and they have to spawn twice because they can only

261
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Speaker 2: mature fifty percent of the eggs in the first go around.

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Speaker 2: And then then they dumped that, and then a week

263
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Speaker 2: to ten days two weeks later, the rest of the

264
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Speaker 2: eggs mature and they spawn a second time. And the

265
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Speaker 2: second spawn is equally as important as the first spawn.

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Speaker 3: Now, this is sorry to interrupt it. Twice annually or

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Speaker 3: twice in a lifetime, twice in the spring, okay, so

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Speaker 3: twice every spring, okay now, And they spawned till they

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Speaker 3: get right up to the end when they went. You know,

270
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Speaker 3: if they're thirty years old, they're still spawning a lot

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Speaker 3: of people think that as they get old, their eggs aren't.

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Speaker 3: You know, they don't spawn anymore. The eggs are any good,

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Speaker 3: they're not viable. But that's not true. They do very

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Speaker 3: well right up till they die.

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Speaker 1: So what I want to get into the whole record

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Speaker 1: book question. But I want to lay out a little

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Speaker 1: more biology for biology for people. First, how could someone

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Speaker 1: when you said that, someone argues it's two species, I mean,

279
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Speaker 1: how could that possibly be true?

280
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Speaker 2: Well, they're sion, I mean, but they're not.

281
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Speaker 1: Like are they saying they're genetically separate and wouldn't be

282
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Speaker 1: able to reproduce.

283
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Speaker 2: Well, here's the thing. Back in the mid nineteen hundreds,

284
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Speaker 2: biologists tentatively agree or agree to agree that there were

285
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Speaker 2: three subspecies of muskies. There was one musky, but three

286
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Speaker 2: subspecies yep. So they went with that for a long time.

287
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Speaker 2: And then when it was discovered that we had alipatric

288
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Speaker 2: fish and sympatric populations that were totally different and grew

289
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Speaker 2: differently and spawned different then they change their thinking. When

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Speaker 2: doctor LeBeau did his doctoral thesis which I worked with

291
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Speaker 2: for the whole summer of nineteen eighty six on Eagle

292
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Speaker 2: Lake and Wabblagoon Lake in northwestern Ontario, his hypothesis was

293
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Speaker 2: that there are two distinct species of muskies, one being

294
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Speaker 2: the smaller strain or the smaller population the olive patrick fish,

295
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Speaker 2: and the big ones being the sympatric populations. The big

296
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Speaker 2: water fish.

297
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Speaker 1: Yep. So when you're when guys are when moskie guys

298
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Speaker 1: are saying that some lake has some strain, what are

299
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Speaker 1: they talking about? The probably the strain.

300
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Speaker 6: But are the fisheries producing these world class hatcheries that

301
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Speaker 6: you're talking about, Rather, are they producing a particular strain

302
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Speaker 6: of muskie.

303
00:15:52,320 --> 00:15:56,920
Speaker 2: They have just graduated to that now they're they're They're

304
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Speaker 2: big thing today is genetic preservation. This lake is genetically

305
00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 2: different than this lake, then you don't mix them up.

306
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Speaker 2: For over one hundred years, Wisconsin raised fishing in their hatcheries,

307
00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:14,360
Speaker 2: stocked them wherever. In fact, in the early days they

308
00:16:14,360 --> 00:16:17,320
Speaker 2: put them on a train then every whistle stop if

309
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Speaker 2: you wanted some muskies for your lake, and meet them

310
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Speaker 2: with your horse and buggy, load them on your wagon,

311
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Speaker 2: and away you go, and nobody knows where they went.

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Speaker 2: So that's why there's no way today that they can

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Speaker 2: define which lakes were native musky lakes except the ones

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Speaker 2: that are connected to the river systems.

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Speaker 1: Gotcha, So they kind of lost track of the fish

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Speaker 1: for a while.

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Speaker 2: Well, they didn't even try to keep track. It was

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three before the wisconsinina Or even started keeping

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Speaker 2: stocking records, So everything that happened from nineteen hundred to

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Speaker 2: nineteen thirty three nobody knows. Of course, everybody's long gone now,

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Speaker 2: so there's no records anywhere what was done. And they

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Speaker 2: did that up until two thousand and six. We started

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Speaker 2: a battle with the DNR about we wanted a bigger

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Speaker 2: strain of fish. We wanted the Mississippi River strain, which

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Speaker 2: grow big, and they grow big fast. For instance, they

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Speaker 2: have been documented to grow up to fifty four inches

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Speaker 2: and thirty eight pounds in ten years. The Mississippi fish,

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Speaker 2: the Mississippi River strain, and these came out of Leech

329
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Speaker 2: Lake in Minnesota, which is connected to the Mississippi River.

330
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Speaker 2: So that's you know.

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Speaker 1: When you say we wisconsinights.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we were trying to get the DNR to quit

333
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Speaker 2: getting muskies from wherever the hell they wanted to get

334
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Speaker 2: them and mix them all up and stock them because

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Speaker 2: they didn't grow and we proved that when we started

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Speaker 2: the fight. They hired a geneticist from the University of Wisconsin.

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Speaker 2: And what they had done is over fifty years they

338
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Speaker 2: had created a lake it's called Bone Lake in western Wisconsin.

339
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Speaker 2: It was not a native musky lake. So for fifty

340
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Speaker 2: years they mixed whatever in there, and when we made

341
00:18:01,600 --> 00:18:04,520
Speaker 2: an issue of it, the geneticists said that they probably

342
00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,760
Speaker 2: have done is created a Hatchy strain of fish. In

343
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Speaker 2: other words, they'd take the eggs from there, raise them

344
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Speaker 2: in a hatter, and put them back in there, plus

345
00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:15,360
Speaker 2: stock from wherever they were getting their eggs from. And

346
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,440
Speaker 2: he proved that that's exactly what they did, so he

347
00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:20,520
Speaker 2: shut them off from ever using that lake again. For

348
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Speaker 2: Riggs got it. So if you go to the Spooner

349
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Speaker 2: Hatchy Spooner, Wisconsin, they've got an area where you walk

350
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Speaker 2: into and you look down into the hattery floor and

351
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Speaker 2: around the windows. They've got pictures. In one of the

352
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:39,119
Speaker 2: pictures they show them taking eggs from a twenty eight incher.

353
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Speaker 2: The genetics has said that's fine because you need to

354
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Speaker 2: have diversity. But what you don't know, particularly when you've

355
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Speaker 2: been mixing stocks for over one hundred years, is where

356
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Speaker 2: they came from. What are the genetics? Do they have

357
00:18:53,440 --> 00:18:57,159
Speaker 2: the capability to grow big? Which they didn't, And so

358
00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:01,520
Speaker 2: that's why we were wanting to change. Because the anglers

359
00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,560
Speaker 2: want fish to grow fast and grow big, and because

360
00:19:04,600 --> 00:19:07,800
Speaker 2: they grow fast they're very aggressive and they hit lures

361
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:11,399
Speaker 2: a lot easier than fish that are, you know, fifteen

362
00:19:11,480 --> 00:19:12,919
Speaker 2: twenty years old, and they're this big.

363
00:19:13,400 --> 00:19:17,960
Speaker 1: But are you guys Are these guys chasing? Are they

364
00:19:18,119 --> 00:19:20,320
Speaker 1: just chasing because they want big fish? Or are they

365
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:23,439
Speaker 1: chasing some thing? Like when you go back in the

366
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:25,720
Speaker 1: historic record, you go back to the late eighteen hundreds,

367
00:19:25,760 --> 00:19:28,440
Speaker 1: you go back to the early nineteen hundreds, is there

368
00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:31,800
Speaker 1: something to suggest that back then there was a bunch

369
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Speaker 1: of giant muskies running around.

370
00:19:34,160 --> 00:19:36,879
Speaker 2: No, but every time a giant musky was caught, it

371
00:19:36,920 --> 00:19:41,800
Speaker 2: made big news, okay, And so that's that's what musky

372
00:19:41,880 --> 00:19:44,399
Speaker 2: fishermen fed on. And there's you know, there's different stages.

373
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Speaker 2: The newcomers they're happy to catch a thirty incher just

374
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Speaker 2: to say they caught a musky. But as you progress

375
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,040
Speaker 2: in the sport, as you learn more, you learn how

376
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 2: to fish better. You go to lakes that have bigger

377
00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:59,000
Speaker 2: fish naturally, always wanting to catch more and more.

378
00:19:58,920 --> 00:20:00,000
Speaker 1: And more bigger, bigger, big.

379
00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:03,960
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm struggling.

380
00:20:03,480 --> 00:20:08,000
Speaker 1: To phrase a question I'm trying to ask you, be Uh,

381
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,720
Speaker 1: is it musky conservation or is it just wanting big muskies,

382
00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:14,280
Speaker 1: and no matter how you get them.

383
00:20:14,119 --> 00:20:14,840
Speaker 2: It's combination.

384
00:20:15,160 --> 00:20:15,440
Speaker 1: Okay.

385
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:20,080
Speaker 2: But here's the thing. There are some lakes that will

386
00:20:20,119 --> 00:20:24,120
Speaker 2: never produce a fish over thirty five pounds. More than

387
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,680
Speaker 2: likely it's an alapatrick lake, although I've got an example

388
00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:31,520
Speaker 2: of the sympatric lake that's in that position. But so,

389
00:20:31,880 --> 00:20:33,879
Speaker 2: for instance, I used to tell people in my seminars,

390
00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:37,280
Speaker 2: if you're lake record where you're fishing is thirty five pounds,

391
00:20:37,720 --> 00:20:40,040
Speaker 2: guess what, You're never going to catch a world record

392
00:20:40,080 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 2: there because it doesn't exist that strain of fish, that

393
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,880
Speaker 2: genetic pool doesn't have the potential to get big.

394
00:20:49,440 --> 00:20:50,919
Speaker 1: I don't know if you're familiar with the work of

395
00:20:53,160 --> 00:20:58,560
Speaker 1: what's Kaufman's first name, Carl Kevin montif and oh Matt Coffin,

396
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:03,080
Speaker 1: Well they do. They work on mule deer, they work

397
00:21:03,119 --> 00:21:07,479
Speaker 1: on ungulates. No, I'm not from well, I don't know

398
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,879
Speaker 1: that this is applicable. But they've gone in a totally

399
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:15,000
Speaker 1: different thing, not even apples and oranges. It's farther apart

400
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:19,560
Speaker 1: than apples and oranges, maybe maybe far apart. Musquie's and

401
00:21:19,680 --> 00:21:25,639
Speaker 1: mule deer m words. So they share ms. But here's

402
00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,480
Speaker 1: the thing. They go into all these areas, like in

403
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:32,159
Speaker 1: their research, they go into these areas where it's like, oh,

404
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:35,960
Speaker 1: it's genetics, genetics, genetics. Okay, these deer don't have the

405
00:21:36,040 --> 00:21:37,800
Speaker 1: right genetics. They're never going to grow big, they don't

406
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,560
Speaker 1: have the right genetics. You can take those deer and

407
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:44,919
Speaker 1: the areas that have the no good genetics and you

408
00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:53,399
Speaker 1: move them to a new place. Guess what one genetics.

409
00:21:54,840 --> 00:21:55,199
Speaker 5: It was?

410
00:21:55,920 --> 00:22:00,960
Speaker 1: Uh, well yeah, but not just food for you. It

411
00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:05,560
Speaker 1: was food for your mother. Meaning when a when a

412
00:22:05,760 --> 00:22:08,800
Speaker 1: when a deer hits the ground, his his fate is

413
00:22:08,920 --> 00:22:13,080
Speaker 1: sealed when he hits the ground, Like you could tell

414
00:22:13,119 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 1: a lot about his potential antler growth already because it

415
00:22:16,560 --> 00:22:21,280
Speaker 1: was like what was his in uterow nutrition? Like right,

416
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:23,480
Speaker 1: But I'm not getting into that with fish. I'm just

417
00:22:23,480 --> 00:22:25,639
Speaker 1: saying like all this this, and I don't know if

418
00:22:25,640 --> 00:22:27,560
Speaker 1: this is even applicable in fish, but all this idea

419
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:32,520
Speaker 1: of like certain areas and certain counties having genetics is

420
00:22:32,920 --> 00:22:37,919
Speaker 1: is uh, it could be such a much more complex picture.

421
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,040
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely absolutely that it's.

422
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:43,359
Speaker 1: That it's all these all these hidden factors and that

423
00:22:43,480 --> 00:22:45,399
Speaker 1: you could take those fish and move them to the

424
00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,479
Speaker 1: lake that has good genetics and somehow monitor them and

425
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: make it that they can't intermingle, and all of a

426
00:22:50,640 --> 00:22:54,040
Speaker 1: sudden you might realize that it wasn't genetics, it was

427
00:22:54,720 --> 00:22:55,360
Speaker 1: whatever the hell.

428
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,439
Speaker 2: Especially one example of the sympatrick population that I have

429
00:22:59,520 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 2: on mind, I've got some friends that fish there religiously,

430
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: and they're very good fishermen, and they've caught over a

431
00:23:05,080 --> 00:23:08,879
Speaker 2: nine hundred fish, but they've never caught a fifty incher,

432
00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:12,720
Speaker 2: even though over there the population of fish that you

433
00:23:12,720 --> 00:23:16,679
Speaker 2: would think has the potential grow big. But they're in

434
00:23:16,720 --> 00:23:21,280
Speaker 2: a lake with pike. But there's so few spawning areas

435
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,120
Speaker 2: for the pike that the musks can control them quite easily.

436
00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:29,120
Speaker 2: And so it's a what we call a trout lake.

437
00:23:29,480 --> 00:23:32,480
Speaker 2: It's a deep clear and they feed mostly on trout

438
00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:37,159
Speaker 2: and probably small pike. But they just haven't evolved a

439
00:23:37,320 --> 00:23:41,399
Speaker 2: need to get any bigger because the pike don't get big.

440
00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:43,280
Speaker 2: I mean, they catch a nice one veran's while, but

441
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:47,160
Speaker 2: most of them are you know, hammer handles. So that's

442
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:53,000
Speaker 2: a sympatric situation that if they were put someplace else,

443
00:23:53,080 --> 00:23:56,119
Speaker 2: like a bigger water, if they were moved to the

444
00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,520
Speaker 2: Saint Lawrence River or Georgian Bay, they probably would continue

445
00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 2: to get bigger. They would have that potential, but because

446
00:24:05,119 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: of the situation of where they're at, the forage, the

447
00:24:08,480 --> 00:24:13,320
Speaker 2: cold water, the not having the need to get bigger. Yeah,

448
00:24:13,440 --> 00:24:16,640
Speaker 2: they just have stopped at about almost fifty in there.

449
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,919
Speaker 6: They're keeping in line with their surroundings and ecosystem needs

450
00:24:21,359 --> 00:24:25,880
Speaker 6: versus being in a bigger ecosystem. They could grow all

451
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:28,320
Speaker 6: they want and never outpace that ecosystem.

452
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:30,879
Speaker 2: Right right, So.

453
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,120
Speaker 1: Your girlfriend now, is she like to fish moskies?

454
00:24:33,400 --> 00:24:36,240
Speaker 2: No bluegills with a barber worms?

455
00:24:36,520 --> 00:24:43,960
Speaker 1: I'll go with her, Man steer your girlfriend, Larry? Where

456
00:24:44,040 --> 00:24:45,240
Speaker 1: right now are the real big ones?

457
00:24:45,320 --> 00:24:45,359
Speaker 2: Like?

458
00:24:45,400 --> 00:24:47,399
Speaker 1: Who's going to catch the next record? Or is it

459
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:48,960
Speaker 1: too late? They'll never catch a new record?

460
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:52,040
Speaker 2: Well, lack Sul has the potential. What's that since that's

461
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 2: what started this whole thing, me getting me involved Here

462
00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,960
Speaker 2: at Laxul is where that's seventy to suppose it's seventy

463
00:24:56,960 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 2: two pounder came from seventy two to two is what

464
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,600
Speaker 2: they call it officially. But that lake and you probably

465
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:08,200
Speaker 2: didn't know this is catch an immediate release only. Can't

466
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:09,200
Speaker 2: keep anything there?

467
00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,919
Speaker 1: Okay, what tells where this lake is?

468
00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,480
Speaker 2: It's in northwestern Ontario, Okay, or northern Ontario. It's it's

469
00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:18,720
Speaker 2: getting towards the northern part of the Musky Range.

470
00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:20,439
Speaker 1: And is it is it a Is it a big

471
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:25,320
Speaker 1: river chain, big reservoir, Oh, big reserv damned damned river system. Yep.

472
00:25:28,400 --> 00:25:30,240
Speaker 2: And it's got some studs in it, It's got somes,

473
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:32,280
Speaker 2: got some big face. Now, there's never been weighed that

474
00:25:32,359 --> 00:25:35,880
Speaker 2: I'm aware of of any over sixty pounds, but there's

475
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 2: been a lot of sixty inch class fish, long, long face.

476
00:25:39,440 --> 00:25:42,240
Speaker 2: In fact, I guided a friend of mine's son to

477
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 2: a fifty seven incher there. So they get they get long,

478
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,360
Speaker 2: they just don't get seventy pounds.

479
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 1: Sorry, yeah, uh, what do you think is the max

480
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,560
Speaker 1: they can get? Like I'm talking like gill Netted found

481
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,720
Speaker 1: dead on the beach whatever.

482
00:25:59,040 --> 00:26:03,440
Speaker 2: All right, there's never been one hung on a scale

483
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:08,679
Speaker 2: that weighed more than the world records, the former world records.

484
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:14,880
Speaker 2: But I'm of the belief ninety five percent that most

485
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:20,760
Speaker 2: of them are bogus. Can I read this to you? This?

486
00:26:20,760 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 2: This kind of covers a ton of stuff. This is

487
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:25,520
Speaker 2: written by Gord Pygor, who used to be the fisher's

488
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,440
Speaker 2: managers for the Lake of the Woods Area, Kenora, Ontario.

489
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:34,200
Speaker 2: And he's on my Modern Day Muskie World Record Committee,

490
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:37,760
Speaker 2: and he talks about in here doctor John Castleman, who

491
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:42,040
Speaker 2: your friend Patrick Dirkin wrote about in the thing he did.

492
00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 2: And doctor Casman is also on my committee, and he's

493
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:50,400
Speaker 2: acknowledged as the foremost musky scientist on the planet. Got it, Okay,

494
00:26:51,800 --> 00:26:54,800
Speaker 2: if we could reduce the handling mortality of big muskies

495
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:58,800
Speaker 2: by only four percent, we would increase the musky population

496
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:04,240
Speaker 2: by a stagging, earring seventy percent. Think about think about that,

497
00:27:04,520 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 2: I am. He'll explain a little more.

498
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:07,200
Speaker 1: Oh he better.

499
00:27:07,560 --> 00:27:13,800
Speaker 2: Crossman and Castleman, Crossman was Castleman's teacher, were also able

500
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,080
Speaker 2: to show that the benefits of returning large muskies unharmed

501
00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:20,160
Speaker 2: to the water resulted in an increase in the mean

502
00:27:20,280 --> 00:27:23,199
Speaker 2: length of the fish, which was precisely the news that

503
00:27:23,320 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: muskie anglers wanted to hear. But the Klethrum study, that's

504
00:27:27,240 --> 00:27:30,240
Speaker 2: this bone here. This is what they use now to

505
00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 2: age how old a musky is. Yep, they used to

506
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:36,120
Speaker 2: use scales, but after age ten the edges were off

507
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:37,080
Speaker 2: and they weren't accurate.

508
00:27:37,320 --> 00:27:37,679
Speaker 1: Got it.

509
00:27:38,080 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: So that's why they went to this The calculated mortality

510
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 2: rates musculine's mortality rates and compared them to the muscular

511
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:50,480
Speaker 2: mascimum age to see if the age of the trophy

512
00:27:50,520 --> 00:27:53,760
Speaker 2: fish had changed over time, and they found that the

513
00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,040
Speaker 2: maximum age of muskies may be in decreasing. In fact,

514
00:27:58,440 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 2: they believe that the maximum may age of the fish

515
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 2: may have decreased by two years from twenty three to

516
00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,600
Speaker 2: twenty one years of age during the study period. Now,

517
00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,640
Speaker 2: the difference of a couple of years may not sound significant,

518
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,760
Speaker 2: but remember that the fish spawn throughout their lives. The

519
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:16,399
Speaker 2: biggest musky lay of the lay more eggs in the

520
00:28:16,440 --> 00:28:20,640
Speaker 2: smaller fish, and that the mammoth muscle engineerly always result

521
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:24,000
Speaker 2: from the very largest year classes. When we viewed in

522
00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: this context, Caslin Crossman concluded that we would need a

523
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,880
Speaker 2: seventy percent increase in annual recruitment to ensure the same

524
00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:35,399
Speaker 2: number of free fish reached their maximum age and thus

525
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 2: maximum trophy size. Follow that. M Okay, now, let me

526
00:28:41,240 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 2: read your mind. I'll bet you're wondering if ninety nine

527
00:28:44,320 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 2: percent of the muskies are being released, which is about

528
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: what it runs you read my mind, at least ninety

529
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 2: five percent. Yeah, how could the age of the oldest

530
00:28:56,720 --> 00:29:01,960
Speaker 2: trophy sized fish be decreasing. Good question, right, Two likely reasons.

531
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:04,880
Speaker 2: The ranks of the musky fraternity are swelling at the

532
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:08,720
Speaker 2: same time that our knowledge base is better than ever before.

533
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:11,960
Speaker 2: There are quite simply more of us musky anglers. We're

534
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,680
Speaker 2: better skilled, better equipped, and we're catching more fish. And

535
00:29:15,760 --> 00:29:19,120
Speaker 2: while we're putting them back. Catch and release only works

536
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 2: if the fish survive, which means proper handling, and that's

537
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 2: the big thing today. Or to put it, put it

538
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:31,080
Speaker 2: the way my good friend and legendary musky angler Dick

539
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:38,960
Speaker 2: Pearson excuse me, puts it like this. Take a look

540
00:29:39,000 --> 00:29:42,600
Speaker 2: at any social media site these days, and you know

541
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 2: that the the what he means. Got to give Dick

542
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 2: credit to for walking the walk talk. He wrote The

543
00:29:50,960 --> 00:29:53,960
Speaker 2: Amazing Muskies on the Shield, one of the most comprehensive

544
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,680
Speaker 2: how to books on musky fishing. But if you recall

545
00:29:56,680 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 2: the front cover, it doesn't feature an angler holding am musky,

546
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 2: as you would suspect, but rather a beautiful eke of

547
00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:06,360
Speaker 2: the woods sunset. I know because I took the photo

548
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 2: and gave it to Dick. He has caught more big

549
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:14,000
Speaker 2: muskies than almost any angler on the planet, and yet

550
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:16,440
Speaker 2: almost every time I call him for a photo to

551
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:19,160
Speaker 2: illustrate a feature on which I am working, and have

552
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,320
Speaker 2: interviewed him, he tells me he doesn't have any Gord

553
00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,200
Speaker 2: writes for infishermen and he's on the Unfisherman TV show.

554
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:25,600
Speaker 1: Yep.

555
00:30:26,960 --> 00:30:29,800
Speaker 2: He keeps his fish in the water at all times

556
00:30:30,160 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 2: and handles them exactly like what they are, the proverbial

557
00:30:33,320 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 2: geese that lay the golden eggs. And if we all

558
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 2: did the same thing this fall for the rest or

559
00:30:39,360 --> 00:30:41,760
Speaker 2: for the rest of our musky fishing careers, and in

560
00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 2: the process reduced the handling mortality of the oldest and

561
00:30:45,360 --> 00:30:49,200
Speaker 2: biggest fish by just four percent, we would initiate the

562
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 2: same effect as if we had increased the annual recruitment

563
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:56,320
Speaker 2: of muskies by a staggering seventy percent. In other words,

564
00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:59,520
Speaker 2: the recruitment is poor. Yep. And if there's nothing he

565
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 2: left to say, spawn is really poor. Let's give Castlemen

566
00:31:04,040 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 2: and Crossman the last word on the subject. The largest

567
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,960
Speaker 2: trophy musculine in the population are usually the oldest individuals.

568
00:31:11,440 --> 00:31:15,760
Speaker 2: The largest year classes produce the greatest number of old individuals. Hence,

569
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,520
Speaker 2: extremely large year classes are required to produce the largest

570
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:23,280
Speaker 2: oldest trophy musculench. If catch and release methods can be

571
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,960
Speaker 2: improved to reduce mortality, they would have the same effect

572
00:31:26,960 --> 00:31:32,640
Speaker 2: as increasing recruitment and would help maintain year class strength, longevity, size,

573
00:31:32,640 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 2: and number of trophy fish in the population. We don't

574
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,600
Speaker 2: need any more information, studies, nothing, It's already figured out

575
00:31:39,600 --> 00:31:42,800
Speaker 2: by folks who've done the legwork. CPR is all fine

576
00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:45,520
Speaker 2: and dandy, but more fish caught equals more dead fish,

577
00:31:46,040 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 2: especially in the open deep water scenarios and with more

578
00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:53,080
Speaker 2: ill equipped anglers. Just out for the ego shots.

579
00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:55,600
Speaker 1: So what are ego shots?

580
00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:57,959
Speaker 2: Ego holding the fish picture?

581
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, just for the no, real good not to hurt

582
00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:01,120
Speaker 1: those fish.

583
00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:01,920
Speaker 2: Pardon me?

584
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:03,600
Speaker 1: You know I got a real good way not to

585
00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:04,240
Speaker 1: hurt the fish.

586
00:32:04,640 --> 00:32:05,000
Speaker 2: How's that?

587
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:06,560
Speaker 1: Don't catch it, don't cat That's true.

588
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:08,720
Speaker 2: That's the best way, which I've done a lot of.

589
00:32:09,440 --> 00:32:12,800
Speaker 2: But then, yeah.

590
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:14,920
Speaker 6: So do you think do you think that you're at

591
00:32:15,360 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 6: how much has your fishing effectiveness changed over the years.

592
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 2: I can't even calculate it. When I first started fishing,

593
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 2: it's a long time ago. Boys, sixty eight years how

594
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:33,320
Speaker 2: old are you right now? We had a wooden rowboat,

595
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,560
Speaker 2: no depth finder, no electric motor, no big motor to

596
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,960
Speaker 2: run around like a crazy man they do today and

597
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,440
Speaker 2: cast to the shoreline. That's how That's how we caught

598
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: our fish. That's what we knew. We were fishing Floyd's,

599
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,000
Speaker 2: which made shoreline fishing a little more productive. Open the big,

600
00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:54,320
Speaker 2: open clearwater lakes. You found the shoreline, you catch three

601
00:32:54,400 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 2: hundred northerns in a week. You won't catch a muskies.

602
00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:58,120
Speaker 2: Been there, done that too.

603
00:32:58,560 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 1: Explain all that again. Now you grew up casting the shoreline, right,

604
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:04,440
Speaker 1: and why would that not be effective? Now?

605
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:09,360
Speaker 2: Well, what's it's still effective on Floyd's type reservoirs where

606
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:11,400
Speaker 2: there's a lot of wood and hiding places.

607
00:33:11,480 --> 00:33:12,120
Speaker 1: What's the word you use?

608
00:33:12,120 --> 00:33:12,640
Speaker 5: The flowage?

609
00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:16,760
Speaker 2: Floydge okay, like the river's dammed up and they call

610
00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,400
Speaker 2: them Floyd's in Wisconsin. Reservoirs are the more.

611
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,000
Speaker 1: Commons is nodding knowingly over here because he uses the

612
00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:23,720
Speaker 1: term flowids.

613
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 2: That's what that means. That's his favorite lakes to Floyd is.

614
00:33:26,640 --> 00:33:28,840
Speaker 4: Yeah, we were just talking about one of them Floyidges.

615
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 1: So it's a reservoir, right, there's a flowage, same difference, gotcha.

616
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,680
Speaker 2: So reasonally called them floyd just because, as you know,

617
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 2: starting the eighteen hundreds eighteen eighties, they started logging the

618
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:46,880
Speaker 2: whole state of Wisconsin, yep, and what was left was

619
00:33:46,880 --> 00:33:49,640
Speaker 2: a mess. And a lot of that debris is in

620
00:33:49,680 --> 00:33:52,360
Speaker 2: the in the watersheds. And when they put a dam

621
00:33:52,360 --> 00:33:56,040
Speaker 2: in and made a floyage, that's what it looked like,

622
00:33:56,920 --> 00:34:01,000
Speaker 2: flowed full of stuff. So oh okay, that's why they.

623
00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:03,880
Speaker 1: Call him that debrisot right. Gotcha.

624
00:34:04,240 --> 00:34:08,319
Speaker 2: In fact, where it was almost impossible to run over

625
00:34:08,400 --> 00:34:11,359
Speaker 2: a motorboat wide open up a fairly new floidge, you're

626
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:12,520
Speaker 2: just risking death.

627
00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:18,440
Speaker 1: I see. So back now that I understand that casting

628
00:34:18,480 --> 00:34:22,040
Speaker 1: the shoreline when you were young, right, that's just how

629
00:34:22,080 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: you went out and fished. You went out and went along.

630
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,560
Speaker 1: I know the strategy you're talking about, right, go on

631
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:30,200
Speaker 1: the edge, cast up towards the shore line again again again.

632
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,240
Speaker 2: Again, and you know, if you could find an offshore

633
00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,920
Speaker 2: structure and the way we did it in those days

634
00:34:34,920 --> 00:34:37,799
Speaker 2: with a rock and a piece of rope, no depth

635
00:34:37,800 --> 00:34:41,960
Speaker 2: finders again, then you had a secret honey hole. Then

636
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,160
Speaker 2: as depth finders came on the scene, he was able

637
00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:49,080
Speaker 2: to read the lake bottom without dropping your rope and

638
00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:55,760
Speaker 2: your rock down. And so all of that increases your knowledge.

639
00:34:55,400 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: Did you guys used to use the rock and rope strategy.

640
00:34:57,680 --> 00:35:02,319
Speaker 2: Started early on? Yeah, or in the Floyd's that I

641
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:04,399
Speaker 2: was fishing. It was fairly shallow, so you could hit

642
00:35:04,440 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: the bottom of the ore in most places and feel

643
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,920
Speaker 2: around down there, right. But then in the river channels

644
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:10,920
Speaker 2: you couldn't touch anything.

645
00:35:11,360 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 1: Yep.

646
00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,480
Speaker 2: But the maximum depth is like fifteen feet except for

647
00:35:15,480 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 2: a hole by the dam that's thirty three feet deep.

648
00:35:17,680 --> 00:35:22,880
Speaker 2: But the average depth of the whole lake is seven

649
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:27,920
Speaker 2: feet okay, so you know, then from that you graduated

650
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 2: the bigger waters. We went to Canada to catch big muskies.

651
00:35:32,040 --> 00:35:34,600
Speaker 2: We used our lake. The first trip up there, we

652
00:35:34,719 --> 00:35:37,839
Speaker 2: used our lake shore casting and we caught three hundred

653
00:35:37,880 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 2: northerns and no muskies. So we learned and get the

654
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 2: hell away from shore and get out on the rock

655
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:46,520
Speaker 2: reefs and the deep weed beds and so forth.

656
00:35:46,760 --> 00:35:47,200
Speaker 1: Got it.

657
00:35:47,239 --> 00:35:50,759
Speaker 2: And that's the way all musky fishermen progressed. They learn

658
00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:52,879
Speaker 2: a little bit of time. If the ones that are

659
00:35:53,280 --> 00:35:54,920
Speaker 2: have a little money and are smart to hire a

660
00:35:54,960 --> 00:35:58,960
Speaker 2: guide and cut their learning curve in half, and then

661
00:35:59,080 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 2: you know, has more more new equipment comes out. The

662
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: big thing now is forward facing sone arts. It's going

663
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,959
Speaker 2: to kill the musky populations if it's not controlled. It's

664
00:36:08,000 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 2: just it's too easy to sharpshoot them.

665
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 1: And it becomes explain that.

666
00:36:15,080 --> 00:36:17,320
Speaker 2: I've got a friend that kind of helped pioneer it

667
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:23,120
Speaker 2: in Minnesota, run his boat sixty miles a day and

668
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,799
Speaker 2: make thirty five casts, and every cast was at a

669
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 2: fish that you could see on the screen.

670
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,000
Speaker 1: Yep. And you're talking about like live scope.

671
00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:35,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, live scope for forward facing snarts a difference.

672
00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 1: So do you have one of those setups?

673
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,799
Speaker 2: I do not, And I here's the thing. I'm madey

674
00:36:40,840 --> 00:36:42,920
Speaker 2: two years old. I've got two bad shoulders that one

675
00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,279
Speaker 2: needs replaced because of casting, because of casting. So you

676
00:36:46,320 --> 00:36:48,959
Speaker 2: would think something like that would intrigue me very much.

677
00:36:49,280 --> 00:36:51,359
Speaker 2: I don't want anything to do with it because it's

678
00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:52,480
Speaker 2: not musky fishing.

679
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,040
Speaker 1: Well, let me do a little devil's advocating.

680
00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:00,479
Speaker 6: Okay, I love it though, Okay, go ahead, thank you,

681
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:01,040
Speaker 6: you're welcome.

682
00:37:01,080 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 1: Let me do a little devil's advocating. Don't you do

683
00:37:04,719 --> 00:37:05,760
Speaker 1: you feel that.

684
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 6: On behalf of those who don't like hard work.

685
00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:09,319
Speaker 3: No, I don't.

686
00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,160
Speaker 1: I don't have one of these contraptions. Now, if you

687
00:37:11,239 --> 00:37:13,360
Speaker 1: look down across from you, and down that way you

688
00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: can see some real advocates.

689
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:16,359
Speaker 6: They're really outing them.

690
00:37:16,880 --> 00:37:18,200
Speaker 1: Yea, you see some real cheating.

691
00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:20,280
Speaker 5: We don't use musky fishing.

692
00:37:23,000 --> 00:37:25,080
Speaker 2: They're used properly. I don't have a problem with it.

693
00:37:25,239 --> 00:37:29,400
Speaker 1: Well, I'm more asking you to philosophize about the flow

694
00:37:29,480 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 1: of technology. Don't you feel that you could have said

695
00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 1: the same thing about anything, monofilament?

696
00:37:41,880 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 6: I mean like your death finder and your your You're

697
00:37:46,120 --> 00:37:48,640
Speaker 6: I'm still using a rope in a rock, by god?

698
00:37:49,000 --> 00:37:52,359
Speaker 1: Yeah, so how are you? Don't you feel? And I'm

699
00:37:52,400 --> 00:37:53,799
Speaker 1: not trying to take you to task. I'm just like

700
00:37:53,840 --> 00:37:55,440
Speaker 1: asking you to think about it, because you obviously thought

701
00:37:55,440 --> 00:38:00,000
Speaker 1: about this a great deal. Uh, you and your life,

702
00:38:00,080 --> 00:38:02,480
Speaker 1: as you laid it out, you have welcomed with open

703
00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:06,400
Speaker 1: arms all form of technological innovation to a point. Okay,

704
00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:11,280
Speaker 1: why is this the one that's going to break something?

705
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:16,759
Speaker 2: Here's here's what's gonna happen. It's gonna if if too

706
00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 2: many new people get into the game and they're not ethical,

707
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,040
Speaker 2: and they run around the lake and spotfish and cast

708
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,239
Speaker 2: him and catch him. There's one bass guy that did

709
00:38:28,239 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: a film. He caught three over fifty inches and a

710
00:38:31,239 --> 00:38:35,480
Speaker 2: half a day because he was using electronics.

711
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:37,279
Speaker 1: Right, He's like, I see what the big deal is?

712
00:38:37,360 --> 00:38:40,040
Speaker 2: Right, So, but he had no concern in fact that

713
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 2: you know what he was actually doing.

714
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:43,600
Speaker 1: But he wasn't throwing him out a stringer.

715
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 2: And the thing of it is, we don't know if

716
00:38:45,520 --> 00:38:47,920
Speaker 2: he knew how to handle him. He's a bash fishermen.

717
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:50,320
Speaker 2: They hold him by the lip. Right, try holding the

718
00:38:50,400 --> 00:38:52,239
Speaker 2: musky by the lip. You have a sore thumb, and

719
00:38:52,320 --> 00:38:54,879
Speaker 2: see what happens You get to the throwing up through

720
00:38:54,920 --> 00:39:01,080
Speaker 2: your thumb. So it's making experts out of rookies, Yeah,

721
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 2: almost instantly, And that's wrong.

722
00:39:04,719 --> 00:39:08,880
Speaker 3: They say the same thing about turkey decoys.

723
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:07,279
Speaker 1: The.

724
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:12,640
Speaker 2: Motion decoys, same thing.

725
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:17,160
Speaker 4: But you know the the that's a hot topic, isn't it.

726
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:21,080
Speaker 2: The Yeah, the thing of it is is that, yes,

727
00:39:21,160 --> 00:39:23,799
Speaker 2: you can control to an extent with size limits and

728
00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:27,800
Speaker 2: bag limits. But since the muskie world is already ninety

729
00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:31,640
Speaker 2: nine percent catch and release anyway, all we're doing is

730
00:39:31,680 --> 00:39:33,320
Speaker 2: going to handle a hell of a lot more fish

731
00:39:33,360 --> 00:39:35,839
Speaker 2: with a lot of new people that don't know how

732
00:39:35,880 --> 00:39:39,279
Speaker 2: to handle them, which, as I just read, their mortality

733
00:39:39,400 --> 00:39:44,239
Speaker 2: is the ultimate goal to eliminate it. So how do

734
00:39:44,280 --> 00:39:47,720
Speaker 2: you educate one hundred thousand new musky fishermen to handle

735
00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:50,319
Speaker 2: of fifty inch or properly in the first place is

736
00:39:50,440 --> 00:39:52,320
Speaker 2: first time it flaps its jaws that we're going to

737
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:53,759
Speaker 2: drop it in the bottom of the boat and it's

738
00:39:53,800 --> 00:39:56,520
Speaker 2: going to flop around and tip tackle box over and

739
00:39:56,560 --> 00:39:57,200
Speaker 2: whatever fish.

740
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:01,920
Speaker 5: Is the proper way to handle a muskie?

741
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,040
Speaker 2: Well, the best way is like was mentioned here about

742
00:40:06,080 --> 00:40:08,879
Speaker 2: dick Pearsons, leave them in the water boat side. There's

743
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:11,400
Speaker 2: floating rulers that you can get to lay alongside and

744
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:15,120
Speaker 2: see how long they are. Nobody agrees with weighing them.

745
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:18,560
Speaker 2: If they're not a record class fish or your person

746
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:19,319
Speaker 2: seems like.

747
00:40:19,239 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: The last one, you'd wind away because those are the

748
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:25,080
Speaker 1: big ones of the big breeding females right right.

749
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:29,640
Speaker 6: It's like in Florida where you cannot get a grip

750
00:40:29,719 --> 00:40:32,640
Speaker 6: and green with the tarpin cannot unless you buy a

751
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:33,799
Speaker 6: tag and you want to kill it.

752
00:40:35,000 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: Then it's legal. Groups you can, Oh, it's against the

753
00:40:38,120 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: law to take a grip with a tarpin. Yeah, so

754
00:40:41,040 --> 00:40:43,800
Speaker 1: getting in the water with them and taking pictures.

755
00:40:44,040 --> 00:40:46,560
Speaker 6: But you gotta you have to have the intent. You

756
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:49,360
Speaker 6: have to purchase the tag and have the intent to

757
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:52,880
Speaker 6: weigh it for a record, and then everybody's okay. So

758
00:40:53,000 --> 00:40:55,600
Speaker 6: that's tarpin conservation.

759
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:59,600
Speaker 2: Which means it's almost a totally limiting handling mortality.

760
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:01,479
Speaker 6: Unless I want to just buy a tag and bank

761
00:41:01,480 --> 00:41:02,360
Speaker 6: of fish, right.

762
00:41:02,440 --> 00:41:04,760
Speaker 2: And how money they're gonna kill doing that? Not that many?

763
00:41:04,920 --> 00:41:10,360
Speaker 1: Well do you do? You routinely see uh, poor handling

764
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:14,760
Speaker 1: methods among newer muskie fishermen, and then good handling methods

765
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,280
Speaker 1: among older muskie fishermen.

766
00:41:16,680 --> 00:41:18,759
Speaker 2: Some older musky fishermen that don't catch a lot of

767
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 2: muskies do not handle them either.

768
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:21,280
Speaker 1: They don't get the practice.

769
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,400
Speaker 2: I mean there are there are not an easy fish

770
00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,120
Speaker 2: to handle. Yeah, particularly when you're talking to thirty five

771
00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,080
Speaker 2: thirty forty forty five fifty pounds. That was a forty

772
00:41:29,440 --> 00:41:30,399
Speaker 2: forty pounder right there.

773
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:31,920
Speaker 1: That's a forty that I'm gonna just hold this up.

774
00:41:31,960 --> 00:41:33,719
Speaker 1: Some people can see that you're gonna shred your thumb.

775
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: Yeah. Now, what you have to consider there is is

776
00:41:36,160 --> 00:41:38,920
Speaker 2: even though they're sharp and long, there's a lot of

777
00:41:38,920 --> 00:41:40,759
Speaker 2: meat on the on the base of the teeth. So

778
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:42,359
Speaker 2: you're not going to see that much when you see

779
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:44,960
Speaker 2: the fish, but maybe that much. Yeah, you'll see and

780
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:46,880
Speaker 2: that'll go through your finger. In fact, a friend of

781
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 2: mine running fifty six inches tooths all the way through

782
00:41:49,120 --> 00:41:53,000
Speaker 2: his thumb out through the thumbnail. These teeth are razor

783
00:41:53,040 --> 00:41:55,239
Speaker 2: sharp on one side and they're dull on the other side,

784
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:57,759
Speaker 2: and that's for a purpose. That's when they grab a

785
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 2: bait fish. The sharp helps penetrate quickly, but the round

786
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:08,040
Speaker 2: sides keep it from ripping and making the holes bigger

787
00:42:08,040 --> 00:42:10,800
Speaker 2: and bigger, and the forage can get away.

788
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:13,440
Speaker 1: When we were in high school, we were having bbygun wars,

789
00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,600
Speaker 1: and this dude named Tristan out the slabs at Cedar Creek,

790
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 1: he caught a baby that went through his finger and

791
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:21,839
Speaker 1: out the fingernail. That's excruciating pain.

792
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:23,200
Speaker 2: I can imagine.

793
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,600
Speaker 4: Back to like though, if you are Larry gonna catch

794
00:42:28,600 --> 00:42:30,880
Speaker 4: a musky and you do want to get a picture

795
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:35,239
Speaker 4: with it, you gotta make sure you keep it in

796
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:39,480
Speaker 4: the net, like with the face up. A lot of

797
00:42:39,520 --> 00:42:42,319
Speaker 4: the times muskies will get in the net and thrash too,

798
00:42:42,480 --> 00:42:45,160
Speaker 4: so those hooks will get caught on the higher side

799
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 4: of the net and kind of hang the fish up

800
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:50,560
Speaker 4: higher seat. That's a very common thing. You gotta make

801
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,000
Speaker 4: sure you get that hook off keep the fish's head

802
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:53,760
Speaker 4: in the water.

803
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 2: Right. A lot of the musk nets, if today, have

804
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 2: a real deep bag and like a ranger boat's fairly

805
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,880
Speaker 2: high shot but not ridiculous. But these deep bag nets

806
00:43:02,880 --> 00:43:04,839
Speaker 2: can keep the fish down in the water with the

807
00:43:04,920 --> 00:43:06,759
Speaker 2: with the rim of the net on the gun of

808
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:07,200
Speaker 2: the boat.

809
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 1: You guys using barbleous No.

810
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 2: But there's a lot of guys that are saying that's

811
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:12,840
Speaker 2: what should be used.

812
00:43:13,280 --> 00:43:16,120
Speaker 1: Do you use live bait there's I used.

813
00:43:15,960 --> 00:43:19,000
Speaker 2: To, I don't, I don't anymore. But if you use

814
00:43:19,200 --> 00:43:22,080
Speaker 2: what we call quickset rigs, I have no problem with it.

815
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,239
Speaker 2: But problem so far I've seen is some of the

816
00:43:25,320 --> 00:43:30,000
Speaker 2: guides are not using quickset rigs to set quick There's

817
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:33,560
Speaker 2: a destroying the whole thought process of what do you

818
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:37,239
Speaker 2: want the musk You do is grab your sucker. There's

819
00:43:37,280 --> 00:43:41,240
Speaker 2: two trouble hooks on the sucker, and you said immediately

820
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:42,839
Speaker 2: and you should hook the fish just like if they

821
00:43:43,040 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 2: grab one of these lures there, yep.

822
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:49,480
Speaker 4: Whereas the harness rig they kind of have a little

823
00:43:49,520 --> 00:43:51,640
Speaker 4: thing that or a hook that you can put through

824
00:43:51,680 --> 00:43:53,200
Speaker 4: the nose of the sucker.

825
00:43:53,680 --> 00:43:55,719
Speaker 2: Goes through the nostrils to hold it on the on

826
00:43:55,760 --> 00:43:56,080
Speaker 2: the rig.

827
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:56,560
Speaker 1: Yep.

828
00:43:57,040 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 2: But I gf a forens. If you use a sucker

829
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:04,719
Speaker 2: for muskies, you won't accept it though. Yeah, if just

830
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:08,560
Speaker 2: the legal method in Wisconsin, which it is in all

831
00:44:08,560 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 2: of Wisconsin, IGFA wouldn't accept it if you called a

832
00:44:11,200 --> 00:44:15,480
Speaker 2: seventy five pounder. That's just their rules.

833
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,160
Speaker 5: They don't want people to use live bait.

834
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:18,120
Speaker 2: They don't want light bait.

835
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:24,440
Speaker 1: Here's a question about the IGFA. Uh, you're familiar with

836
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:28,040
Speaker 1: the Boone and Crocket Club. Yes, okay, Boone and Crockett

837
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:35,279
Speaker 1: Club has different categories, so as you'll find. Oftentimes the

838
00:44:35,320 --> 00:44:40,800
Speaker 1: biggest specimen known to man was not killed by a hunter. Okay,

839
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,520
Speaker 1: the biggest big horn, right, the world record, the biggest

840
00:44:43,560 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 1: big horn ever recorded was found dead. The biggest black

841
00:44:47,480 --> 00:44:52,080
Speaker 1: bear found dead. I think the biggest white tail found dead. Right.

842
00:44:52,440 --> 00:44:54,000
Speaker 1: It's just kind of weird that it always winds up

843
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:58,000
Speaker 1: being that the really big ones are found dead. Is

844
00:44:58,040 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: the IGFA interested in and how big do they get?

845
00:45:02,719 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 1: Are they only looking at fish that conformed to their

846
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:06,640
Speaker 1: own little.

847
00:45:06,480 --> 00:45:12,160
Speaker 2: Rous pretty much? It IJFA started in nineteen thirty nine.

848
00:45:12,480 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 2: It was pretty much a rich man's game at that point.

849
00:45:16,880 --> 00:45:20,880
Speaker 2: Big offshore yachts and you know money people.

850
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like Billfish and all that got.

851
00:45:23,160 --> 00:45:27,480
Speaker 2: It right, and they were totally salt water until nineteen

852
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 2: seventy nine. I started the Freshwater Fishing Hall of Fame

853
00:45:32,320 --> 00:45:36,080
Speaker 2: World record program in the early seventies, and Field and

854
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,200
Speaker 2: Stream at that time was the other record keeper in

855
00:45:39,280 --> 00:45:43,200
Speaker 2: fresh water, and they got upset with us, and they

856
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:45,760
Speaker 2: tried to get us to cease and desist and whatever,

857
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,680
Speaker 2: claiming that those records were theirs. And our attorney told

858
00:45:48,719 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 2: them to go fly a kite. Those records belonged to

859
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:53,200
Speaker 2: the people who caught the fish, and they're in the

860
00:45:53,239 --> 00:45:55,200
Speaker 2: public domain. We can use them if we want to,

861
00:45:55,239 --> 00:45:57,600
Speaker 2: and we did, and then they backed off, So they

862
00:45:57,640 --> 00:46:02,359
Speaker 2: eventually turned their freshwater program were to IGFA. Until that time,

863
00:46:02,400 --> 00:46:07,760
Speaker 2: IJFA had no use for fresh water whatsoever. So somewhere

864
00:46:07,760 --> 00:46:11,280
Speaker 2: along the late seventies we decided to try to merge

865
00:46:11,280 --> 00:46:14,960
Speaker 2: the two programs IJFA in the Hall of Fame. So

866
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,279
Speaker 2: I flew to Fort Lauderdale, where they were headquartered at

867
00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:21,040
Speaker 2: the time, and we had a meeting with Elwood Ka Harry,

868
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,959
Speaker 2: who was the president at the time, and they.

869
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:26,520
Speaker 1: Got that big it's a big marlin out front, right, Yeah,

870
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:27,200
Speaker 1: a big silver.

871
00:46:27,360 --> 00:46:29,400
Speaker 2: I don't remember if they did it in the Fort Lauderdale.

872
00:46:29,440 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 2: They probably did Fort Daney a beach where they're at now,

873
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,960
Speaker 2: Rondini Beach. But anyway, it was going to work out

874
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 2: where there'd just be one record keeping program. Well, the

875
00:46:41,120 --> 00:46:44,080
Speaker 2: one stipulation that the Hall of Fame wanted is they

876
00:46:44,080 --> 00:46:47,360
Speaker 2: wanted the IGFA to allow them to print the records

877
00:46:47,360 --> 00:46:53,359
Speaker 2: in their publications, and IJFA wouldn't allow it until after

878
00:46:53,400 --> 00:46:55,960
Speaker 2: they'd published it. Well, that didn't set well with the

879
00:46:56,000 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 2: founder and the director of the Hall of Fame. So

880
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,000
Speaker 2: he he was smart when he turned over the record

881
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,759
Speaker 2: He made copies of everything. So he just reconstituted the

882
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: program and back again, back again. We came with two programs.

883
00:47:08,440 --> 00:47:13,640
Speaker 2: Hell uh, I was a representative for IJFA for sixteen years,

884
00:47:14,000 --> 00:47:18,680
Speaker 2: and when the Musky War started, I got crossways with

885
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:22,760
Speaker 2: the worst Musky War the world records. The Musky Wars

886
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,200
Speaker 2: started ninety two, and what.

887
00:47:26,480 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: You have to explain that?

888
00:47:27,719 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: But when you're ready, okay, let's let's jump horses hair

889
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:35,359
Speaker 2: for a second. Let's go back to the seventy two

890
00:47:35,400 --> 00:47:39,280
Speaker 2: pounders and work backwards. Okay, that seems to be a logical,

891
00:47:40,040 --> 00:47:40,960
Speaker 2: logical way to do it.

892
00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:42,279
Speaker 1: I want to hear about the musky war.

893
00:47:42,960 --> 00:47:43,440
Speaker 2: We'll get to that.

894
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:44,040
Speaker 1: We're going to get there.

895
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:45,959
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's a big thing. Oh, by the way,

896
00:47:46,280 --> 00:47:48,960
Speaker 2: Musky's Canada they even put release that's the name of

897
00:47:48,960 --> 00:47:54,600
Speaker 2: their magazine, Release Journal, the Release Journal. Yeah, that's how

898
00:47:55,080 --> 00:47:57,680
Speaker 2: gung ho Musky fishermenar for catching.

899
00:47:57,440 --> 00:47:59,200
Speaker 1: Right, man, those guys wud probably have to ship fit

900
00:47:59,239 --> 00:48:00,920
Speaker 1: if you went spear fish and muskies.

901
00:48:00,920 --> 00:48:01,160
Speaker 2: Man.

902
00:48:03,400 --> 00:48:06,879
Speaker 3: Since you've brought up again the release thing, I want

903
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:10,640
Speaker 3: to know what makes the fish so fragile that this

904
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 3: improper handling can cause such high mortality.

905
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:21,480
Speaker 2: Most musky fishermen net them and then you people do

906
00:48:21,640 --> 00:48:23,879
Speaker 2: not to handle them. Well, bring them in the boat.

907
00:48:24,719 --> 00:48:27,440
Speaker 2: They're strong, and the fish are flopping all over the

908
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,680
Speaker 2: bottom of the boat beating himself all the hell. So

909
00:48:30,760 --> 00:48:33,440
Speaker 2: then they get them unhooked. If they ever get them unhooked,

910
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 2: then the muskie jumps out of the net and he's

911
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 2: flopping around the bottom of the boat and trying to

912
00:48:37,960 --> 00:48:41,719
Speaker 2: bite somebody on the leg. Anyway, the fish pretty much

913
00:48:41,760 --> 00:48:44,760
Speaker 2: beat himself up. So if you release them in the water,

914
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 2: obviously the only thing you're gonna have to do is

915
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:50,000
Speaker 2: reach down with the flyers back the hooks outlay a

916
00:48:50,080 --> 00:48:52,160
Speaker 2: measuring stick alongside them to get an idea.

917
00:48:52,360 --> 00:48:55,440
Speaker 6: I mean, well, isn't there an idea here? And it

918
00:48:55,480 --> 00:48:57,360
Speaker 6: goes the same for like big pike too, but a

919
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:00,719
Speaker 6: muskie and a pike or ambus predators.

920
00:49:00,760 --> 00:49:02,480
Speaker 5: They're not the first cousins.

921
00:49:02,600 --> 00:49:06,960
Speaker 6: They're not designed to go on these big, long marathon runs.

922
00:49:07,239 --> 00:49:08,600
Speaker 5: They're like a mountain lion.

923
00:49:10,000 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 6: Dive bomb out of the tree, fight real hard for

924
00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:16,960
Speaker 6: hopefully a very limited amount of time sprinters versus marathon runners,

925
00:49:17,160 --> 00:49:19,359
Speaker 6: so that they're not going to be able to deal

926
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,400
Speaker 6: with this big build up of lactic acid, so it

927
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:26,560
Speaker 6: takes them way longer to recover, and during that recovery

928
00:49:26,600 --> 00:49:33,400
Speaker 6: period they're susceptible to predation as well, or in the

929
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,640
Speaker 6: case of your older fish, they may just not be

930
00:49:35,680 --> 00:49:36,799
Speaker 6: able to recover from it.

931
00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:43,279
Speaker 2: Yeah, they are terrific speed demons for short distance. They

932
00:49:43,280 --> 00:49:45,760
Speaker 2: can go sixty miles an hour for a short burst.

933
00:49:46,560 --> 00:49:49,120
Speaker 2: That's why all the major fins are at the back

934
00:49:49,160 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 2: of the fish. When they wind up, they wind up

935
00:49:52,680 --> 00:49:55,520
Speaker 2: into an S shape and it's just like shooting a

936
00:49:55,560 --> 00:49:56,479
Speaker 2: bow out of an arrow.

937
00:49:56,560 --> 00:49:57,000
Speaker 1: How fast.

938
00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:00,399
Speaker 2: Can they hit sixty miles an hour for a short distance? Oh, kid,

939
00:50:01,920 --> 00:50:04,839
Speaker 2: if you're in a twenty foot boat, they can go

940
00:50:04,880 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 2: from one end of that boat to the editor of

941
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,680
Speaker 2: the boat before you can blink. That's how fast they are.

942
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 2: But they can't keep it up. In other words, if

943
00:50:13,520 --> 00:50:15,879
Speaker 2: you if I've got a friend that likes to play

944
00:50:15,920 --> 00:50:20,560
Speaker 2: them before we land them, we always have getting on

945
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:23,319
Speaker 2: his case saying you're gonna get in the snag and

946
00:50:23,360 --> 00:50:25,160
Speaker 2: lose the fish, just so you hurry up and get

947
00:50:25,200 --> 00:50:26,400
Speaker 2: it till we can get it and let it go.

948
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:28,919
Speaker 2: Because if you if you play them for a half

949
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:32,439
Speaker 2: like you're just there's stories in the older if there's

950
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:35,320
Speaker 2: stories in the old days of an hour fight or

951
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:38,120
Speaker 2: a half hour fight or forty five minute fight. If

952
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:40,800
Speaker 2: anybody takes more than five minutes to land the fish,

953
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:44,120
Speaker 2: unless it's a really big one, they're messing around with it,

954
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:46,560
Speaker 2: or they don't have have enough equipment to handle the fish,

955
00:50:46,600 --> 00:50:48,400
Speaker 2: and they shouldn't be fishing for him in the first place.

956
00:50:48,560 --> 00:50:51,400
Speaker 4: Now, you'll hear when somebody hooks a muskie, you know,

957
00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:57,440
Speaker 4: oftentimes keep rerailing, keep reeling, keep reeling. You know a

958
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,160
Speaker 4: lot of guides, you know you can get the fish

959
00:50:59,160 --> 00:50:59,560
Speaker 4: of the boat.

960
00:50:59,640 --> 00:51:02,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, because if you keep realing, you're keeping tension on

961
00:51:03,000 --> 00:51:05,919
Speaker 2: the fish. The minute you give them a split suck

962
00:51:05,960 --> 00:51:07,320
Speaker 2: and of slack, they're gone.

963
00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,399
Speaker 4: A lot of the times they eat that bait so hard, Yeah,

964
00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,320
Speaker 4: that they just have they're clamped on the bait. You

965
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,239
Speaker 4: never really got a hook set in there.

966
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:18,680
Speaker 2: When I was working on the track instead of Eagle

967
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 2: Lake in eighty six, we would put them in the

968
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 2: tank of anesthetic and put them to sleep so that

969
00:51:26,520 --> 00:51:28,840
Speaker 2: we could put a transmitter in them so we could

970
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:32,160
Speaker 2: pump their stomach to see what they've been eating. We

971
00:51:32,280 --> 00:51:34,919
Speaker 2: had one big fish, it was probably a thirty five

972
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:39,080
Speaker 2: pound fish, and we put a mouth spreader. You know

973
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:41,160
Speaker 2: what the mouth spreader is. Put a mouth spreader in

974
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:43,040
Speaker 2: the fish to hold it over till we could put

975
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:45,799
Speaker 2: the tube in to flush the stomach. The fish is

976
00:51:45,800 --> 00:51:52,799
Speaker 2: dead asleep, just squashed that mouth spreader completely closed, just

977
00:51:52,880 --> 00:51:55,640
Speaker 2: that fast, and it's a sleep. That's the power they

978
00:51:55,719 --> 00:51:57,680
Speaker 2: got in those jaws. So a lot of times they'll

979
00:51:57,680 --> 00:51:59,879
Speaker 2: grab that bait. They might be hooked or you think

980
00:52:00,080 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 2: hook for three four, five minutes, and all of a

981
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:03,959
Speaker 2: sudden they look at you and they opened the mouth

982
00:52:04,040 --> 00:52:06,600
Speaker 2: or they shake their head and poof. They never had

983
00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:06,960
Speaker 2: a hook in.

984
00:52:07,000 --> 00:52:10,080
Speaker 4: Them that bait, particularly that bulldog right there. If you

985
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,640
Speaker 4: look at that bait, there's teeth marks on it. That

986
00:52:12,719 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 4: fish that I caught on that bait did not have

987
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:16,839
Speaker 4: a single hook on it. As soon as it hit

988
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:21,359
Speaker 4: the net, opened its mouth lure Chester, Yeah, as soon

989
00:52:21,360 --> 00:52:23,399
Speaker 4: as it hit the net and opened his mouth.

990
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:28,160
Speaker 2: In the fall, particularly when I used to do a

991
00:52:28,160 --> 00:52:30,480
Speaker 2: lot of sucker fishing, they would grab the sucker and

992
00:52:30,560 --> 00:52:33,560
Speaker 2: my dad would always raise them up to see how

993
00:52:33,560 --> 00:52:35,279
Speaker 2: big you are, because we didn't want to catch a

994
00:52:35,280 --> 00:52:39,040
Speaker 2: small one. And a lot of times as they get

995
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:40,880
Speaker 2: up to where you can see him, they let it go.

996
00:52:41,719 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 2: But if you drop it back down, they'll come right

997
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:44,160
Speaker 2: back and hit it again.

998
00:52:44,200 --> 00:52:45,200
Speaker 1: Because he never got hooked.

999
00:52:45,440 --> 00:52:47,839
Speaker 2: He never got hooked, but he never got stung either.

1000
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:51,000
Speaker 2: And he's hungry. He once had he once said, sucker,

1001
00:52:51,000 --> 00:52:52,480
Speaker 2: but he ain't gonna let you get a look at him.

1002
00:52:55,120 --> 00:52:58,279
Speaker 2: We've had him drop it and pick it up three two, three,

1003
00:52:58,320 --> 00:53:02,080
Speaker 2: four times. And sometimes you get them, and sometimes you don't.

1004
00:53:01,880 --> 00:53:04,480
Speaker 6: Tell us about this seventy two pounder. The start of

1005
00:53:04,480 --> 00:53:05,720
Speaker 6: the muskue wars Well.

1006
00:53:06,400 --> 00:53:09,960
Speaker 2: Actually this didn't start the Muskue Wars, but it's reignited

1007
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:10,839
Speaker 2: them a little bit.

1008
00:53:11,440 --> 00:53:12,759
Speaker 1: Are these these? Are these?

1009
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,120
Speaker 2: Is this the crew you told you about the manifesto?

1010
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:16,680
Speaker 2: I've got the manifesto right here?

1011
00:53:16,760 --> 00:53:17,400
Speaker 1: How'd you get it?

1012
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:22,200
Speaker 2: Who do you think you're dealing with?

1013
00:53:24,080 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 1: Okay, let's talk about that.

1014
00:53:25,680 --> 00:53:27,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, right here, I'll tell you how I got it.

1015
00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:33,320
Speaker 2: Observer number five sent it to me. Oh, after several

1016
00:53:33,360 --> 00:53:37,080
Speaker 2: months on the internet talking about it. They didn't know

1017
00:53:37,120 --> 00:53:39,640
Speaker 2: anything about it was on the internet. They found out

1018
00:53:40,400 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 2: and he sent me this.

1019
00:53:41,840 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 1: But he said, I think he sent it to me.

1020
00:53:44,000 --> 00:53:46,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, he sent it to you. And then after he

1021
00:53:46,520 --> 00:53:49,319
Speaker 2: after I found out about it and put more about

1022
00:53:49,400 --> 00:53:51,440
Speaker 2: it on the internet, then he sent me a copy

1023
00:53:51,719 --> 00:53:53,439
Speaker 2: and then I called him the next day. We talked

1024
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:55,560
Speaker 2: for forty minutes and okay.

1025
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:58,960
Speaker 1: Can we refresh people's memory? We were what started this

1026
00:53:59,080 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 1: whole thing of Larry being here was showed up. We

1027
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:06,360
Speaker 1: got it showed in the mail. Yeah, and you know whatever.

1028
00:54:06,440 --> 00:54:08,440
Speaker 1: No that I was like, go through mail on my

1029
00:54:08,560 --> 00:54:12,040
Speaker 1: desk and there's this big thing called the Musky Manifesto,

1030
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:18,080
Speaker 1: and it's photographs, documentation, all kinds of stuff and basically

1031
00:54:18,080 --> 00:54:20,600
Speaker 1: it's a story about how some guys got boned by

1032
00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: the ig F A. They caught a giant. Everybody knows

1033
00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 1: it was a giant, it was a world record, and

1034
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:31,320
Speaker 1: they got the fish got thrown out on a stupid technicality.

1035
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:34,800
Speaker 3: That's what they claim.

1036
00:54:35,000 --> 00:54:37,960
Speaker 1: I'm paraphrasing, but I don't think i'm being I'm.

1037
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:40,040
Speaker 6: Not that that's really the meat of the deal.

1038
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: Yeah, that was the meat of the deal. That's what

1039
00:54:41,880 --> 00:54:45,279
Speaker 1: hard started this whole conversation, and I started talking about

1040
00:54:45,680 --> 00:54:49,880
Speaker 1: my understanding of the muskie community and how they're touchy fellers.

1041
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:50,840
Speaker 2: There's a picture.

1042
00:54:51,000 --> 00:54:52,160
Speaker 1: That's the picture I know.

1043
00:54:53,000 --> 00:54:55,000
Speaker 2: When it appeared on the internet on a post that

1044
00:54:55,040 --> 00:54:58,960
Speaker 2: I have started, somebody sent it in with the heads

1045
00:54:58,960 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 2: cut off.

1046
00:54:59,520 --> 00:55:02,880
Speaker 1: Of the This is what started this conversation is this

1047
00:55:02,920 --> 00:55:07,000
Speaker 1: guy saying that they had a seventy two pounder. Everybody

1048
00:55:07,000 --> 00:55:10,160
Speaker 1: knows it's a seventy two pounder, but they weighed on

1049
00:55:10,280 --> 00:55:13,040
Speaker 1: a boat and IGFA threw it out because you can't

1050
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 1: weigh fish on boats.

1051
00:55:16,520 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 2: Now, that's not the only rule that they both broke

1052
00:55:19,520 --> 00:55:25,399
Speaker 2: for IJFA tell me more the case, the scale must

1053
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:29,320
Speaker 2: be recertified after weighing. They said they had it checked,

1054
00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:31,200
Speaker 2: but they didn't tell me how they had it checked

1055
00:55:31,239 --> 00:55:34,919
Speaker 2: after after and it was weighing light actually, which means

1056
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,360
Speaker 2: a fish weighed seventy three pounds.

1057
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, he talked, He said that in the manifesto. Turns

1058
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:42,800
Speaker 1: out it's even bigger.

1059
00:55:43,480 --> 00:55:48,080
Speaker 2: The Lynx measurement must be done on an IGFA bumpboard

1060
00:55:48,880 --> 00:55:51,360
Speaker 2: other words, of a measuring board on a flat surface.

1061
00:55:53,320 --> 00:55:56,280
Speaker 2: They didn't have that, so they couldn't comply with that rule.

1062
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:58,799
Speaker 2: You had to have a picture of the rod reel

1063
00:55:58,840 --> 00:56:00,440
Speaker 2: and scale and photo of the f show on the

1064
00:56:00,480 --> 00:56:04,440
Speaker 2: scale showing the weight. Didn't have that. In fact, the

1065
00:56:04,440 --> 00:56:08,000
Speaker 2: guy who wrote the manifesto was one of the five

1066
00:56:08,360 --> 00:56:12,280
Speaker 2: the three cousins and two uncles okay, dads of the cousins,

1067
00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,360
Speaker 2: And supposedly after the guy stood on the seat of

1068
00:56:16,400 --> 00:56:18,279
Speaker 2: the boat and lifted the fish up high enough for

1069
00:56:18,320 --> 00:56:20,839
Speaker 2: the scale to register, only two of the five guys

1070
00:56:20,880 --> 00:56:24,600
Speaker 2: could see the scale reading. This guy that worked the

1071
00:56:24,640 --> 00:56:28,360
Speaker 2: manifesto did not see it. So he's he's hanging his

1072
00:56:28,440 --> 00:56:30,319
Speaker 2: hat on it. That's the biggest musk he ever caught.

1073
00:56:30,320 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 2: But he he didn't even see it. Weighed himself as

1074
00:56:33,640 --> 00:56:34,239
Speaker 2: far as the.

1075
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:37,400
Speaker 1: Measurement, Oh did you do some phone calls, Larry, pardon

1076
00:56:37,520 --> 00:56:38,759
Speaker 1: you did some phone calls about this?

1077
00:56:39,000 --> 00:56:50,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, track anything big you do? Yeah, the final fly

1078
00:56:50,960 --> 00:56:55,760
Speaker 2: on the ointment and IJFA told me personally that had

1079
00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,320
Speaker 2: not been weighed in the boat, that there were several

1080
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,640
Speaker 2: other things that they would have pursued before they would

1081
00:57:01,760 --> 00:57:05,200
Speaker 2: ever recognize it linked measurement. As I told you, it

1082
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,680
Speaker 2: has to be done on their bump board. Here's how

1083
00:57:07,719 --> 00:57:09,919
Speaker 2: they did it, on the inside of the gunwale of the boat,

1084
00:57:09,920 --> 00:57:12,680
Speaker 2: about halfway between the gunnell and the floor. It was

1085
00:57:12,719 --> 00:57:15,279
Speaker 2: a fifty inch ruler stuck to the boat.

1086
00:57:15,719 --> 00:57:17,760
Speaker 1: Okay, I've been in those boats.

1087
00:57:18,080 --> 00:57:19,000
Speaker 5: I got one of my own.

1088
00:57:19,320 --> 00:57:22,120
Speaker 2: It took all five of them to hold the fish

1089
00:57:22,200 --> 00:57:25,200
Speaker 2: against that tape and then they had a three foot

1090
00:57:25,480 --> 00:57:29,479
Speaker 2: bump measurement that they measured the other the distance past

1091
00:57:29,600 --> 00:57:32,680
Speaker 2: that tape were one of the guys marked the spot

1092
00:57:32,680 --> 00:57:34,320
Speaker 2: and then they measured and they thought it was six

1093
00:57:34,360 --> 00:57:38,200
Speaker 2: and a half inches. Well, IJFA would never accept that

1094
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:43,680
Speaker 2: the world came to an end. So I understand that

1095
00:57:43,720 --> 00:57:45,800
Speaker 2: he wants his uncle to be a world record holder,

1096
00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,280
Speaker 2: but it's never going to happen, and it couldn't have

1097
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 2: happened in those circumstances. And here's the kicker, because lack

1098
00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:57,400
Speaker 2: SUL is total catching, immediate release, keyword immediate. And the

1099
00:57:57,400 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 2: conservation officers, I think are a little bit leaning to

1100
00:58:00,320 --> 00:58:03,520
Speaker 2: let you take a picture, hu quick one. But had

1101
00:58:03,560 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 2: the seal came by, well they were monking around like this,

1102
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:11,160
Speaker 2: they would have gotten a fine immediately, you think. So, yeah,

1103
00:58:11,360 --> 00:58:12,400
Speaker 2: no question about it.

1104
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,080
Speaker 1: So that rules out having a new world record in

1105
00:58:15,160 --> 00:58:17,200
Speaker 1: lock school, that's what you said it's going to come

1106
00:58:17,200 --> 00:58:17,440
Speaker 1: out of.

1107
00:58:18,000 --> 00:58:19,880
Speaker 2: But I know I said it had the potential.

1108
00:58:20,240 --> 00:58:23,440
Speaker 6: I have ga out the window. When you look at

1109
00:58:23,440 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 6: that picture, what do you see?

1110
00:58:25,520 --> 00:58:25,880
Speaker 2: Okay?

1111
00:58:26,080 --> 00:58:28,880
Speaker 6: Is it like even in the right class of Compare.

1112
00:58:28,680 --> 00:58:29,720
Speaker 2: Those two pictures.

1113
00:58:30,120 --> 00:58:31,480
Speaker 1: I ain't Larry's jealous.

1114
00:58:33,080 --> 00:58:37,560
Speaker 2: Just fish make you jealous, Larry, that one don't because

1115
00:58:37,600 --> 00:58:38,200
Speaker 2: I caught it.

1116
00:58:42,240 --> 00:58:44,240
Speaker 1: Okay, I see what you're saying here, So I'm supposed to.

1117
00:58:44,600 --> 00:58:48,200
Speaker 1: I'm looking at these two fish pretty close and just.

1118
00:58:48,120 --> 00:58:50,480
Speaker 2: Going by the Yeah, but you see they look like

1119
00:58:50,520 --> 00:58:52,120
Speaker 2: they're pretty close to the same side.

1120
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,240
Speaker 1: Because they're both being held up by two people standing

1121
00:58:54,320 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: side by side. Yeah, you I would superficially be like, yeah,

1122
00:58:58,000 --> 00:59:01,200
Speaker 1: those are in the ballpark. Rough these same size fishes.

1123
00:59:00,960 --> 00:59:04,400
Speaker 2: Okay, my fish was fifty seven and a quarter inches,

1124
00:59:04,840 --> 00:59:09,120
Speaker 2: which is slightly longer, and they claimed for their fish,

1125
00:59:09,840 --> 00:59:14,440
Speaker 2: we weighed on a certified scale, State certified scale. It

1126
00:59:14,480 --> 00:59:17,400
Speaker 2: weighed fifty four pounds four and a half ounces.

1127
00:59:18,880 --> 00:59:22,720
Speaker 1: So do I see twenty pounds of blubber on that fish?

1128
00:59:23,040 --> 00:59:25,760
Speaker 1: The other fish doesn't have exactly twenty pounds is a

1129
00:59:25,760 --> 00:59:26,680
Speaker 1: pile of blobbers.

1130
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:30,160
Speaker 2: And on my thread on muskie first that ran for

1131
00:59:30,240 --> 00:59:33,800
Speaker 2: over three months, in fact, it's still up. There was

1132
00:59:33,840 --> 00:59:37,200
Speaker 2: not a single person that said it weighed sixty pounds,

1133
00:59:37,280 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 2: let alone seventy, including Dick Pearson that was referenced to

1134
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 2: a well ago when we were talking. It just is

1135
00:59:44,440 --> 00:59:49,840
Speaker 2: it's not there. It's not there. And in the manifest

1136
00:59:49,720 --> 00:59:55,240
Speaker 2: a manifesto there's eleven more pictures besides that one, and

1137
00:59:55,320 --> 00:59:59,200
Speaker 2: there's several pictures of it in the guy's laps, and

1138
00:59:59,320 --> 01:00:02,040
Speaker 2: none of the pictures except one doesn't even have a

1139
01:00:02,080 --> 01:00:05,000
Speaker 2: little bit of belly. So there's just no way that

1140
01:00:05,240 --> 01:00:07,800
Speaker 2: fish we eight eighteen pounds more than my fish.

1141
01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:09,960
Speaker 1: Way, Yeah, you if it had a socker in it.

1142
01:00:10,120 --> 01:00:12,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean a couple, it would have had more

1143
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,680
Speaker 2: than a It would have had had a ten pound

1144
01:00:15,000 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 2: whitefish or something in it to.

1145
01:00:17,360 --> 01:00:20,600
Speaker 4: Get weight party some lead weights.

1146
01:00:21,600 --> 01:00:24,720
Speaker 3: Most people, it sounds like most people out there fishing,

1147
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,080
Speaker 3: And maybe I'm wrong about this. I like to fish

1148
01:00:27,480 --> 01:00:29,360
Speaker 3: as much as a lot of fellows in this room,

1149
01:00:30,080 --> 01:00:35,720
Speaker 3: but that you wouldn't be prepared to officially have a

1150
01:00:36,040 --> 01:00:37,640
Speaker 3: record fish in your boat.

1151
01:00:37,480 --> 01:00:40,880
Speaker 2: And obviously they weren't. Yeah, and it's a shame and

1152
01:00:41,160 --> 01:00:41,960
Speaker 2: one of the things.

1153
01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:43,400
Speaker 1: When you go fishing, are you prepared?

1154
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:48,120
Speaker 2: Yes, absolutely, carry my certified scale right in the boat.

1155
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:49,480
Speaker 1: You can't weigh in the boat.

1156
01:00:49,800 --> 01:00:51,560
Speaker 2: Well, we can pull right up the shore and get out.

1157
01:00:51,880 --> 01:00:53,080
Speaker 1: That's not immediate release.

1158
01:00:53,440 --> 01:01:02,440
Speaker 2: But fish and black soul either, Amos Saint Lawrence River. Oh,

1159
01:01:02,560 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 2: here's the thing. There might be a way you could

1160
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,320
Speaker 2: do it on locked soil if they relax that rule

1161
01:01:08,360 --> 01:01:10,160
Speaker 2: a little bit and they're working on it.

1162
01:01:10,480 --> 01:01:11,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, I could imagine if.

1163
01:01:11,600 --> 01:01:14,400
Speaker 2: You pulled the boat to shore, if you had a cradle.

1164
01:01:14,640 --> 01:01:17,280
Speaker 2: You know what a cradle is, instead of a dip nut.

1165
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:20,200
Speaker 2: You put the fish in the cradle, You ease the

1166
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:23,880
Speaker 2: boat to shore. Somebody gets out of the boat, lifts

1167
01:01:23,880 --> 01:01:26,040
Speaker 2: the scale, lifts the cradle up and hooks it to

1168
01:01:26,080 --> 01:01:29,840
Speaker 2: the scale. You should be able to get it above

1169
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:33,360
Speaker 2: the water. If you're on solid.

1170
01:01:33,120 --> 01:01:35,320
Speaker 1: Grounds, well it's obviously feasibooks. I mean they're doing it on.

1171
01:01:35,760 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: They'll do it on like great white sharks are an

1172
01:01:38,000 --> 01:01:40,400
Speaker 1: e s a species, and they'll get weights off great

1173
01:01:40,400 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 1: whites and cradles. I mean, there's a way to do

1174
01:01:42,160 --> 01:01:43,960
Speaker 1: it right if you got the right expertise.

1175
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,040
Speaker 2: So that's the only way that they could have come

1176
01:01:47,200 --> 01:01:50,600
Speaker 2: even close to complying with ISJFA rules if they'd been prepared.

1177
01:01:50,600 --> 01:01:52,760
Speaker 2: And what I've been trying to beat into people's mind

1178
01:01:52,880 --> 01:01:55,600
Speaker 2: is if you have any idea that you want to

1179
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:57,760
Speaker 2: catch the world record muskie, or if you're fishing where

1180
01:01:57,800 --> 01:02:01,919
Speaker 2: the potential exists, whichever place that's got muskies it's not there,

1181
01:02:02,720 --> 01:02:06,479
Speaker 2: then you should have a copy of the rules, whether

1182
01:02:06,520 --> 01:02:08,760
Speaker 2: it's IGFA, whether it's a Fishing Hall of Fame, or

1183
01:02:08,800 --> 01:02:11,200
Speaker 2: whether it's a modern day muskie world record program that

1184
01:02:11,240 --> 01:02:15,680
Speaker 2: I've started, and have the equipment that you need to

1185
01:02:15,800 --> 01:02:19,800
Speaker 2: follow those rules. And here's the kicker that you might like,

1186
01:02:20,480 --> 01:02:23,800
Speaker 2: since you're a meat eater, is for my program, it

1187
01:02:23,880 --> 01:02:25,400
Speaker 2: has to be a dead fish. They have to keep

1188
01:02:25,440 --> 01:02:30,120
Speaker 2: the fish. Why is that Because here's the thing, and

1189
01:02:30,160 --> 01:02:32,160
Speaker 2: if you read my book, you'll find what happened in

1190
01:02:32,360 --> 01:02:35,959
Speaker 2: the past history is a different wet sand put in fish.

1191
01:02:36,040 --> 01:02:39,960
Speaker 2: Coke bottles full of sand in fish to addway, oh.

1192
01:02:39,440 --> 01:02:41,000
Speaker 1: Because you want to get a look inside there.

1193
01:02:41,120 --> 01:02:44,640
Speaker 2: My program is we have to have a representative at

1194
01:02:44,680 --> 01:02:47,840
Speaker 2: the time the fish is opened, and we have to

1195
01:02:47,920 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 2: check the summit contents. We'll check it for water, we'll

1196
01:02:51,000 --> 01:02:54,040
Speaker 2: check it for bait, fish, we'll check it for sand

1197
01:02:54,040 --> 01:02:54,439
Speaker 2: and rocks.

1198
01:02:54,720 --> 01:02:54,919
Speaker 1: Fish.

1199
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:58,560
Speaker 2: Fine, yeah, if they weren't stuffed in there by the angler,

1200
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:02,320
Speaker 2: that's a that's gonna be a tough call if it

1201
01:03:02,320 --> 01:03:06,520
Speaker 2: ever happens. But depending on the size of the forage,

1202
01:03:06,720 --> 01:03:08,840
Speaker 2: you should be able to tell whether the musky grabbed

1203
01:03:08,880 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 2: the fish or whether it didn't.

1204
01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:11,720
Speaker 1: Something fish is going on.

1205
01:03:12,920 --> 01:03:18,920
Speaker 2: So you like that cow and people fitticizes some for saying,

1206
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,880
Speaker 2: you know, we have to kill the fish, but that's

1207
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 2: one fish out of zillion.

1208
01:03:23,120 --> 01:03:24,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, how often is that gonna happen?

1209
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:26,520
Speaker 2: The last big musky?

1210
01:03:27,400 --> 01:03:31,000
Speaker 6: Educate your anglers and say you're gonna kill this fish

1211
01:03:31,000 --> 01:03:33,040
Speaker 6: because you're positive it's a new record.

1212
01:03:33,280 --> 01:03:35,360
Speaker 2: Well right, and if you're smart, you got to scale

1213
01:03:35,400 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 2: on the boat to find out before you kill it.

1214
01:03:37,720 --> 01:03:38,760
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, there you go.

1215
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I've got.

1216
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:42,360
Speaker 1: What you're saying. So this should be like a once

1217
01:03:42,400 --> 01:03:46,600
Speaker 1: in a once in a generation activity, right.

1218
01:03:46,960 --> 01:03:49,919
Speaker 2: I mean, I've got some pictures here of I won't

1219
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,280
Speaker 2: take them out, but uh, there's been a couple of

1220
01:03:52,280 --> 01:03:54,160
Speaker 2: really big fish caught out of the Saint Lawrence River

1221
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:56,480
Speaker 2: in the last couple of years, and they had scales

1222
01:03:56,520 --> 01:03:59,760
Speaker 2: on the boat, They had lots of witnesses. Yes, they

1223
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:01,960
Speaker 2: weigh on the boat, but they weren't going for a

1224
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 2: record anyway, so they just wondered how big it was.

1225
01:04:04,400 --> 01:04:06,200
Speaker 2: It was almost sixty pounds.

1226
01:04:06,520 --> 01:04:08,720
Speaker 1: What I'm getting worried about here is I want to

1227
01:04:08,720 --> 01:04:11,000
Speaker 1: make sure we talk that you explain what the muskie

1228
01:04:11,040 --> 01:04:14,680
Speaker 1: wars were. But when you when you call a person

1229
01:04:14,720 --> 01:04:17,959
Speaker 1: up when you're investigating a fish, well, how many fish

1230
01:04:17,960 --> 01:04:19,440
Speaker 1: have you investigated in your career?

1231
01:04:19,880 --> 01:04:20,439
Speaker 2: Quite a few?

1232
01:04:21,320 --> 01:04:23,200
Speaker 1: I mean have you do? You have you made your

1233
01:04:23,240 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: living writing and fishing and guiding.

1234
01:04:25,960 --> 01:04:29,240
Speaker 2: Pretty not not completely, but a good portion of it.

1235
01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: So yet yet points you've had a day job.

1236
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 2: Yeah?

1237
01:04:31,640 --> 01:04:32,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, what line of words.

1238
01:04:33,040 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 2: For instance, our modern day muski modern day muskie world

1239
01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:39,040
Speaker 2: record is fifty eight pounds. That's the modern record. Okay,

1240
01:04:39,680 --> 01:04:42,560
Speaker 2: it was Cotton, Michigan, who was putt in a frazer

1241
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,000
Speaker 2: that was in the bell Air chain, the Torch River chain.

1242
01:04:47,080 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 2: Oh yep, okay, and uh you took it to a

1243
01:04:50,600 --> 01:04:54,000
Speaker 2: tax germist. One of our committee members went to the

1244
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,440
Speaker 2: tax deermists, remeasured to fish, rewighed the fish, and then

1245
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:00,800
Speaker 2: was stayed in the fraser for four four months, and

1246
01:05:00,840 --> 01:05:04,439
Speaker 2: they shipped it to Minnesota to have a replica, made

1247
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,840
Speaker 2: a mold for a replica, and so I made a

1248
01:05:07,920 --> 01:05:10,680
Speaker 2: rainments to be there when they got the fish they

1249
01:05:10,720 --> 01:05:13,120
Speaker 2: thawed to fish out. I was there when it was opened.

1250
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,560
Speaker 2: I reweighed first to make sure it weighs close to

1251
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:18,760
Speaker 2: what it was claimed to be in It was actually

1252
01:05:18,760 --> 01:05:21,720
Speaker 2: over because it absorbed a little bit of the water

1253
01:05:21,760 --> 01:05:28,840
Speaker 2: from thawing overnight. But so then I weighed the fish again.

1254
01:05:29,520 --> 01:05:32,840
Speaker 2: It was okay. And then when they opened the stomach

1255
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:34,680
Speaker 2: it had. All it had was a skeleton of a

1256
01:05:34,720 --> 01:05:39,440
Speaker 2: thirteen inch small mouth. They had almost completely gone and

1257
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 2: obsousally no weight there.

1258
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:43,440
Speaker 1: He had a keeper small mouth and.

1259
01:05:43,360 --> 01:05:46,360
Speaker 2: At two and a third pounds of eggs is all

1260
01:05:46,400 --> 01:05:49,600
Speaker 2: it had in it. So it had just started getting eggs.

1261
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:53,120
Speaker 2: Got it for the fall, and this was in October,

1262
01:05:53,200 --> 01:05:56,880
Speaker 2: so it was it was not starting real early, probably

1263
01:05:57,000 --> 01:06:00,320
Speaker 2: into December before they really start building up eggs. Do

1264
01:06:00,360 --> 01:06:01,080
Speaker 2: it through the winner, and.

1265
01:06:01,440 --> 01:06:03,400
Speaker 1: You got to personally handle the world.

1266
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:05,600
Speaker 2: Record, the modern day record.

1267
01:06:05,960 --> 01:06:08,600
Speaker 1: Uh, how many fish have you investigated?

1268
01:06:10,960 --> 01:06:13,960
Speaker 2: Oh, not a lot, because there's not been a lot

1269
01:06:14,040 --> 01:06:19,280
Speaker 2: of records caught. But I've investigated other fish then, you know,

1270
01:06:19,440 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 2: just just a modern day record.

1271
01:06:21,000 --> 01:06:23,880
Speaker 1: But when you invested, like I would say, you investigated

1272
01:06:23,880 --> 01:06:25,640
Speaker 1: this fish, the Musky Manifest.

1273
01:06:26,040 --> 01:06:29,080
Speaker 2: My investigation the world records took up the whole book.

1274
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:33,720
Speaker 2: That's that's all just world records right there, And that

1275
01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,880
Speaker 2: whole thing is about the past world records.

1276
01:06:36,480 --> 01:06:41,720
Speaker 1: A compendion of musky angling history, muscle lunge, World Records,

1277
01:06:41,760 --> 01:06:46,920
Speaker 1: the History, the Truth, the Truth eighteen seventy seventy, two

1278
01:06:46,960 --> 01:06:47,640
Speaker 1: thousand and six.

1279
01:06:47,920 --> 01:06:50,960
Speaker 6: Right, But you've investigated far more fish than that, because

1280
01:06:50,960 --> 01:06:53,120
Speaker 6: you obviously debunked a few along the way.

1281
01:06:53,200 --> 01:06:54,680
Speaker 1: Right, But he puts them in there, don't you.

1282
01:06:54,920 --> 01:06:56,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, they're in all. Yeah.

1283
01:06:56,720 --> 01:06:58,960
Speaker 1: Dot Adversary and that books.

1284
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:01,160
Speaker 2: Available on Amazon, by the way, and also Kindle if

1285
01:07:01,160 --> 01:07:03,560
Speaker 2: you just want to get it on your iPod, got it?

1286
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:05,480
Speaker 1: Does it get adversarial?

1287
01:07:07,320 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 2: It can bet it didn't because I've not.

1288
01:07:10,080 --> 01:07:12,919
Speaker 1: With this kid. Were you guys getting We've got along fine.

1289
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 2: We had a nice conversation. I understood where he was

1290
01:07:16,040 --> 01:07:18,080
Speaker 2: coming from. He was thrilled to death for his uncle

1291
01:07:18,080 --> 01:07:20,720
Speaker 2: to catch the fish. Yep, and they all thought they

1292
01:07:20,760 --> 01:07:25,760
Speaker 2: had a world record. But from what I understand is

1293
01:07:25,760 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 2: what I was told, not from this kid, but from

1294
01:07:29,080 --> 01:07:32,919
Speaker 2: the resort people or people associated with the resort people.

1295
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:36,640
Speaker 2: The scale they used was a twenty dollars Amazon scale.

1296
01:07:37,600 --> 01:07:41,240
Speaker 2: Can't be real repeatable. That's what you need for a

1297
01:07:41,280 --> 01:07:44,640
Speaker 2: good scale. It's got to be repeatable. So who knows.

1298
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:48,560
Speaker 2: Maybe because he jumped up on the seat and tried

1299
01:07:48,600 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 2: to get the fish up, it took him two lifts

1300
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,600
Speaker 2: to get a tail off the ground or off the

1301
01:07:52,640 --> 01:07:54,960
Speaker 2: floor of the boat, and so it had to be

1302
01:07:55,080 --> 01:07:57,480
Speaker 2: You know, you're standing there with all that weight supposedly

1303
01:07:57,520 --> 01:08:00,480
Speaker 2: seventy two pounds. I mean he lifted weights a little bit,

1304
01:08:00,520 --> 01:08:04,240
Speaker 2: but try it sometime. It's not easy to lift forty pounds.

1305
01:08:04,280 --> 01:08:08,360
Speaker 2: It'll oone seventy. So whether the scale jiggled or whether

1306
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:13,040
Speaker 2: the boat rocked, who knows what. Nobody believes it weighed

1307
01:08:13,040 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 2: seventy two pounds. If they want to believe it. That's fine.

1308
01:08:15,560 --> 01:08:18,120
Speaker 2: More power to them that. If that's what they want,

1309
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 2: that to be their family goal, go for it. But

1310
01:08:22,320 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 2: I'm not buying it.

1311
01:08:24,360 --> 01:08:25,360
Speaker 1: I ain't going in the butt.

1312
01:08:27,040 --> 01:08:32,880
Speaker 2: I probably won't do any more revisions, getting too old.

1313
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,240
Speaker 1: Okay, tell me about what the why was the muskie?

1314
01:08:34,240 --> 01:08:36,400
Speaker 1: Why did the Muskie War start the year I finished

1315
01:08:36,439 --> 01:08:38,240
Speaker 1: high school? And is there a correlation?

1316
01:08:40,560 --> 01:08:44,800
Speaker 2: I never thought about that? Okay? In nineteen ninety.

1317
01:08:44,560 --> 01:08:46,479
Speaker 1: One, Oh sorry, I finished ninety three.

1318
01:08:46,560 --> 01:08:51,640
Speaker 2: John Delloff, who's a amateur historian in my hometown or

1319
01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:53,360
Speaker 2: where I live now, Hayward.

1320
01:08:53,080 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: Was called a muskie historian or historian pretty much.

1321
01:08:56,400 --> 01:08:59,000
Speaker 2: He's a historian, but heavy into musky.

1322
01:08:59,240 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: Okay.

1323
01:09:01,200 --> 01:09:04,160
Speaker 2: Well, he decided that he was going to investigate it,

1324
01:09:05,160 --> 01:09:09,679
Speaker 2: and so he used his amateur photo analysis to try

1325
01:09:09,720 --> 01:09:14,280
Speaker 2: to debunk Arthur Lawton's sixty nine pounds fifteen ounce muskie

1326
01:09:14,320 --> 01:09:17,200
Speaker 2: from the Saint Lee Trevor six sixty nine to fifteen

1327
01:09:17,320 --> 01:09:21,519
Speaker 2: from say One Trevor, nineteen fifty seven. The thing of

1328
01:09:21,560 --> 01:09:24,599
Speaker 2: it is, it could have all stopped right there, had

1329
01:09:25,320 --> 01:09:26,960
Speaker 2: if I had had my head on straight, or if

1330
01:09:27,000 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 2: anybody else would have thought about it. The pictures that

1331
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:34,240
Speaker 2: he used to analyze. Okay, there is no way to

1332
01:09:34,439 --> 01:09:38,880
Speaker 2: prove that the scales that Field and Stream are, the

1333
01:09:39,200 --> 01:09:44,959
Speaker 2: pictures that Field and Stream published were the actual pictures

1334
01:09:44,960 --> 01:09:50,080
Speaker 2: of the fish. Igfa's reason for setting the record aside,

1335
01:09:50,120 --> 01:09:56,519
Speaker 2: and they never did do a complete disqualification. It's still

1336
01:09:56,560 --> 01:10:01,920
Speaker 2: instead aside status. But at that time in fifty seven,

1337
01:10:01,960 --> 01:10:08,040
Speaker 2: Field Stream did not require a photograph even but IGFA did,

1338
01:10:08,080 --> 01:10:10,760
Speaker 2: so they weren't sure that the pictures that they had

1339
01:10:10,800 --> 01:10:12,880
Speaker 2: were the right face, so they put it in set

1340
01:10:12,880 --> 01:10:16,080
Speaker 2: aside status until another picture could be found. Well, I'd

1341
01:10:16,080 --> 01:10:18,600
Speaker 2: found it and produced it and had a meeting with

1342
01:10:18,680 --> 01:10:21,559
Speaker 2: him in two thousand and seven, but they still rejected it.

1343
01:10:22,200 --> 01:10:27,120
Speaker 2: But that was all boloney because when the World Record

1344
01:10:27,160 --> 01:10:33,439
Speaker 2: Musky Alliance challenged Cal Johnson's nineteen fifty seven or nineteen

1345
01:10:33,479 --> 01:10:39,599
Speaker 2: forty nine sixty seven pounder, lost my chain of thought.

1346
01:10:40,880 --> 01:10:43,959
Speaker 1: You were talking about you were talking about the amateur historian.

1347
01:10:44,680 --> 01:10:48,120
Speaker 2: Okay, we're off of him for a minute. Yep, the WRIM,

1348
01:10:48,320 --> 01:10:51,599
Speaker 2: which is a world record Musky Alliance. They were trying

1349
01:10:51,640 --> 01:10:55,040
Speaker 2: to prove which world record muskies were indeed legitimate.

1350
01:10:55,080 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: Yeap, which these guys actually had it right.

1351
01:10:57,040 --> 01:11:01,639
Speaker 2: And so they had a professional photograph interest. Now analyze

1352
01:11:01,680 --> 01:11:04,840
Speaker 2: the photographs as the same thing they did for spraysfish,

1353
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,679
Speaker 2: which was sixty nine to eleven, the one that Latin

1354
01:11:08,720 --> 01:11:17,479
Speaker 2: beat and when they denied the Wrimes protest and also

1355
01:11:18,200 --> 01:11:23,160
Speaker 2: Louis Spray's protests for the hull. Anyway, IJFA said that

1356
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:26,080
Speaker 2: they decided that you can't prove the weight of a

1357
01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:29,400
Speaker 2: fish from a two dimensional photograph, which I agree with.

1358
01:11:30,320 --> 01:11:34,200
Speaker 2: But what you can prove from photogrammetry is, for instance,

1359
01:11:34,200 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 2: in the case of the Johnson fish, it was actually

1360
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:41,679
Speaker 2: twenty five percent smaller than what they claimed by photo

1361
01:11:41,760 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 2: analysis of both the fresh fish and the mount after

1362
01:11:45,160 --> 01:11:50,080
Speaker 2: it was mounted. If you'll overlay the outline of both

1363
01:11:50,120 --> 01:11:52,559
Speaker 2: the mounted fish and the fresh fish is the same

1364
01:11:52,560 --> 01:11:55,200
Speaker 2: thing they did with sprayfish. One is way shorter than

1365
01:11:55,200 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 2: the other one ten inches in Spray's case, maybe more

1366
01:11:58,400 --> 01:12:01,599
Speaker 2: than that and seven and a half in Johnson's fish.

1367
01:12:01,960 --> 01:12:03,760
Speaker 2: And if you come to Hayward, I'll buy you you

1368
01:12:03,760 --> 01:12:05,600
Speaker 2: can buy me a beer. I'll take you to the

1369
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:07,720
Speaker 2: mox and Bar and show you Johnson's Mountain. I'll show

1370
01:12:07,720 --> 01:12:13,120
Speaker 2: you exactly how they did it. I've had quite a

1371
01:12:13,160 --> 01:12:14,760
Speaker 2: few beers over that fire.

1372
01:12:17,240 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 4: At what bar?

1373
01:12:18,600 --> 01:12:20,960
Speaker 2: Mox and bar hanging the mox and bar in the

1374
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:22,880
Speaker 2: glass case? Still there now, still there now?

1375
01:12:23,400 --> 01:12:25,120
Speaker 1: And uh and what's it say underneath it?

1376
01:12:25,840 --> 01:12:30,160
Speaker 2: Well, Cal Johnson's world record muskie because they didn't want

1377
01:12:30,200 --> 01:12:33,640
Speaker 2: to claim world record musky because supposedly Spray's face beat it.

1378
01:12:33,680 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 2: But Spray's face was a lie anyway, So anyway, that's

1379
01:12:38,640 --> 01:12:39,320
Speaker 2: that's that.

1380
01:12:39,280 --> 01:12:41,200
Speaker 1: It was a lie or a mistake.

1381
01:12:41,560 --> 01:12:44,800
Speaker 2: It was a lie. Lily the liar I call him.

1382
01:12:46,160 --> 01:12:47,720
Speaker 5: Does he have a history of line.

1383
01:12:48,920 --> 01:12:51,719
Speaker 2: It started in nineteen thirty nine, because he's still alive.

1384
01:12:51,880 --> 01:12:56,200
Speaker 2: Everything was pretty kosher up till nineteen thirty nine. Lake

1385
01:12:56,240 --> 01:12:58,519
Speaker 2: of the Woods in nineteen twenty nine, nineteen thirty one,

1386
01:12:58,640 --> 01:13:03,000
Speaker 2: nineteen thirty two produced world record muskies. The biggest one

1387
01:13:03,040 --> 01:13:05,799
Speaker 2: of all of them was fifty eight pounds and four ounces.

1388
01:13:05,880 --> 01:13:07,000
Speaker 2: That was nineteen thirty two.

1389
01:13:07,080 --> 01:13:09,880
Speaker 1: And this is like the heyday, right heyday of.

1390
01:13:09,920 --> 01:13:12,439
Speaker 2: Lake of the Woods. But it's still to this day

1391
01:13:12,479 --> 01:13:17,400
Speaker 2: never produced a sixty pound fish. So in nineteen thirty nine,

1392
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:22,519
Speaker 2: there was a gentleman named Percy have in Detroit, Michigan,

1393
01:13:23,280 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 2: making lures and wanting to become a big deal. So

1394
01:13:27,160 --> 01:13:29,600
Speaker 2: he supposedly caught a world record.

1395
01:13:29,760 --> 01:13:31,040
Speaker 1: He wants to play the game.

1396
01:13:30,960 --> 01:13:34,120
Speaker 2: And that was in June. Well, in July, Lewis Spray

1397
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,640
Speaker 2: came up with one just a little bit bigger, and

1398
01:13:38,680 --> 01:13:41,280
Speaker 2: so he had the world record. But before the year

1399
01:13:41,400 --> 01:13:43,960
Speaker 2: was out, a guy who had never fished muskus before

1400
01:13:44,000 --> 01:13:46,559
Speaker 2: and borrowed a rod and reel, skipped work and went

1401
01:13:46,600 --> 01:13:48,559
Speaker 2: fishing with his buddies on Eagle Lake. By noon the

1402
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:53,519
Speaker 2: first day had a sixty pound, eight ounce legitimate fish. Legit, legit.

1403
01:13:54,479 --> 01:13:58,040
Speaker 2: In fact, John delle office has not challenged that fish

1404
01:13:58,520 --> 01:14:03,720
Speaker 2: to this day. Oh anyway, that was nineteen thirty nine. Well,

1405
01:14:03,760 --> 01:14:06,040
Speaker 2: Spray wasn't happy about having the record for just a

1406
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 2: short period of time. And I think the reason that

1407
01:14:08,960 --> 01:14:11,720
Speaker 2: he did it in the first place was coming out

1408
01:14:11,720 --> 01:14:14,799
Speaker 2: of the depression, the war's getting ready to go crazy,

1409
01:14:15,520 --> 01:14:17,599
Speaker 2: and tourism was at a low ebb and he owned

1410
01:14:17,600 --> 01:14:20,920
Speaker 2: a tavern. So what better way to get business than

1411
01:14:20,920 --> 01:14:25,200
Speaker 2: a world record muskie. Yeah, but yeah, when he got

1412
01:14:25,240 --> 01:14:27,240
Speaker 2: the first one, he put it on Ice s Indey's bar,

1413
01:14:27,800 --> 01:14:30,120
Speaker 2: had everybody write in a book what they guessed that

1414
01:14:30,200 --> 01:14:33,200
Speaker 2: it weighed before they ever told it. And excuse me, anybody,

1415
01:14:33,280 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 2: how much it weighed, and then in nineteen forty he

1416
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:43,760
Speaker 2: decided to do it again, but Haybard already beat him

1417
01:14:43,960 --> 01:14:46,800
Speaker 2: with a bigger one in nineteen forty, So this is

1418
01:14:46,840 --> 01:14:49,120
Speaker 2: two years in row Har's got a world record and

1419
01:14:49,120 --> 01:14:51,280
Speaker 2: two years in a row. Sprays thought he had a

1420
01:14:51,280 --> 01:14:53,320
Speaker 2: world record, but he was already beat before it was caught.

1421
01:14:53,720 --> 01:14:56,760
Speaker 2: But yet he still claimed on his even on his

1422
01:14:56,880 --> 01:15:01,639
Speaker 2: tombstone today he relies, this remains of Lewis right, three

1423
01:15:01,680 --> 01:15:07,599
Speaker 2: world record muskies in his day. So he had the Hayward,

1424
01:15:07,640 --> 01:15:08,720
Speaker 2: Wisconsin graveyard.

1425
01:15:09,160 --> 01:15:10,240
Speaker 1: Is that a picture in your book?

1426
01:15:10,840 --> 01:15:12,960
Speaker 2: I don't have a picture of the tombstone, but it's

1427
01:15:13,360 --> 01:15:16,160
Speaker 2: in Chester's going to get one. It's in a book.

1428
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:18,360
Speaker 1: So it was all said and done. That's what he

1429
01:15:18,439 --> 01:15:23,000
Speaker 1: wanted on there, right, not like loving father right right.

1430
01:15:23,040 --> 01:15:27,720
Speaker 2: So three times and that was that was his supposed

1431
01:15:27,800 --> 01:15:30,320
Speaker 2: second world record, but it wasn't. And then that same

1432
01:15:30,400 --> 01:15:33,240
Speaker 2: year another eagle, a fish big fish was caught sixty

1433
01:15:33,240 --> 01:15:36,120
Speaker 2: one pounds nine ounces, but it had already been beaten twice.

1434
01:15:36,880 --> 01:15:40,599
Speaker 2: So there was six record potential fish caught in two years,

1435
01:15:41,160 --> 01:15:45,160
Speaker 2: and four of them by the two guys with two each.

1436
01:15:46,640 --> 01:15:51,439
Speaker 2: So things went quiet for a while Louis moved out

1437
01:15:51,439 --> 01:15:53,559
Speaker 2: of Hayward, he sold his tavern. He moved to Rice

1438
01:15:53,640 --> 01:15:56,840
Speaker 2: Lake and bought another tavern. Kind of got out of

1439
01:15:56,840 --> 01:16:01,679
Speaker 2: the muskie game. And nineteen forty seven of sixty four

1440
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:04,480
Speaker 2: and a half pound fish was caught in Vadas County, Wisconsin,

1441
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:07,400
Speaker 2: and of course right away the rumors start and the game.

1442
01:16:07,520 --> 01:16:10,160
Speaker 2: Orden said he had a pen fattening it up, and

1443
01:16:10,360 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 2: you know the usual.

1444
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,040
Speaker 6: Rumors, throwing kittens in a little baby pool.

1445
01:16:15,760 --> 01:16:17,599
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, So.

1446
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:19,679
Speaker 5: That off.

1447
01:16:20,600 --> 01:16:23,479
Speaker 2: He was trying to disprove every big musky that was caught,

1448
01:16:23,479 --> 01:16:26,080
Speaker 2: except those were caught in Hayward, with the exception of

1449
01:16:26,080 --> 01:16:27,479
Speaker 2: the eagle leg fish, and I don't know why he

1450
01:16:27,520 --> 01:16:30,360
Speaker 2: skipped those two. So anyway, he tried to discredit the

1451
01:16:30,360 --> 01:16:33,280
Speaker 2: hands for fishing, and he never did dispute the fact

1452
01:16:33,320 --> 01:16:36,640
Speaker 2: that it was fifty eight inches long. But when the

1453
01:16:36,640 --> 01:16:38,719
Speaker 2: picture was taken of hands or hole in the fish,

1454
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,759
Speaker 2: he had already gutted the fish and taken twelve pounds

1455
01:16:41,760 --> 01:16:44,600
Speaker 2: of spawn out of it, so it looked like it,

1456
01:16:44,920 --> 01:16:48,639
Speaker 2: you know, a tube that was fifty eight inches long,

1457
01:16:48,680 --> 01:16:51,000
Speaker 2: and it couldn't possibly weighed sixty four a half pounds,

1458
01:16:51,000 --> 01:16:53,439
Speaker 2: But he had certified scale, he had all the affiday

1459
01:16:53,479 --> 01:16:57,080
Speaker 2: it's necessary and everything. So it kind of died down. Then.

1460
01:16:57,360 --> 01:16:59,680
Speaker 1: Can I tell you something. I signed up for a

1461
01:16:59,720 --> 01:17:04,360
Speaker 1: turk you derby one time and Elroy Wisconsin at the bar,

1462
01:17:05,800 --> 01:17:07,519
Speaker 1: and I got it my turkey and brought it down

1463
01:17:07,520 --> 01:17:11,519
Speaker 1: there and everybody had a big laugh about how I

1464
01:17:11,560 --> 01:17:14,160
Speaker 1: got it. The next day we stopped back down there

1465
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:15,800
Speaker 1: and we come in. They're still in there.

1466
01:17:16,000 --> 01:17:20,479
Speaker 2: He got it, he got it?

1467
01:17:21,439 --> 01:17:22,040
Speaker 5: What did go by?

1468
01:17:22,120 --> 01:17:22,240
Speaker 7: Way?

1469
01:17:23,680 --> 01:17:25,360
Speaker 1: What kind of idiot.

1470
01:17:26,520 --> 01:17:27,840
Speaker 2: Cost yourself there? Did you?

1471
01:17:29,000 --> 01:17:29,080
Speaker 1: So?

1472
01:17:29,120 --> 01:17:35,679
Speaker 2: Anyway? Nineteen forty nine, Cal Johnson caught a supposed sixty

1473
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:38,439
Speaker 2: seven and a half pounder. Nice, I'd like you to

1474
01:17:38,479 --> 01:17:43,679
Speaker 2: do a little photo analysis, if you would. There's three

1475
01:17:43,760 --> 01:17:46,839
Speaker 2: pictures of his supposed sixty seven and a half pounder

1476
01:17:47,360 --> 01:17:53,439
Speaker 2: and one picture of a forty four pounder and they

1477
01:17:53,439 --> 01:17:54,519
Speaker 2: don't look much different.

1478
01:17:56,040 --> 01:17:58,719
Speaker 1: And well, bottom right is a real stut.

1479
01:17:59,640 --> 01:18:02,120
Speaker 6: We think before we would start this, don't you think

1480
01:18:02,120 --> 01:18:04,639
Speaker 6: we would say, mister Ranella, we'd like you to perform

1481
01:18:04,680 --> 01:18:07,040
Speaker 6: a photo analysis for the group. But before you do that,

1482
01:18:07,040 --> 01:18:10,840
Speaker 6: could you please tell us your background, Like how are

1483
01:18:10,880 --> 01:18:12,879
Speaker 6: you qualified to judge these photos?

1484
01:18:13,160 --> 01:18:13,840
Speaker 1: Uh?

1485
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:14,840
Speaker 2: Just eyeballing?

1486
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:21,120
Speaker 1: I have caught a tiger musky. Wow, and many, many,

1487
01:18:21,200 --> 01:18:27,320
Speaker 1: many twenty four twenty two inch northerns. Yeah, and uh,

1488
01:18:27,439 --> 01:18:30,040
Speaker 1: these are all whoppers.

1489
01:18:30,640 --> 01:18:31,640
Speaker 2: Well one of the things that was.

1490
01:18:31,920 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: But I gotta say this in all seriousness, I'm not,

1491
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:39,240
Speaker 1: as you know, not a seasoned muskie fisherman. I mean,

1492
01:18:39,960 --> 01:18:42,479
Speaker 1: maybe you can help explain it, but come on, how

1493
01:18:42,520 --> 01:18:44,320
Speaker 1: much can you What can you tell from any of

1494
01:18:44,360 --> 01:18:45,000
Speaker 1: these photos?

1495
01:18:47,680 --> 01:18:50,760
Speaker 2: Not a lot actually, unless they unless they're done professionally

1496
01:18:50,760 --> 01:18:54,840
Speaker 2: by a photograph intrist. But the thing that struck me

1497
01:18:55,000 --> 01:18:57,640
Speaker 2: was I bought this magazine at a flea market and

1498
01:18:57,720 --> 01:19:01,479
Speaker 2: it was written Cal Johnson article written the year before

1499
01:19:02,000 --> 01:19:04,760
Speaker 2: he got his record out of same lake where he

1500
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,920
Speaker 2: supposedly got his record, and that that's the picture right there.

1501
01:19:09,720 --> 01:19:13,160
Speaker 2: And strangely, and a year later he catches a fish

1502
01:19:13,240 --> 01:19:16,160
Speaker 2: that looks a lot like that fish. He claims it

1503
01:19:16,200 --> 01:19:18,160
Speaker 2: to weigh sixty seven and a half pounds and claims

1504
01:19:18,160 --> 01:19:21,760
Speaker 2: a new world record and won an automobile. What so,

1505
01:19:22,560 --> 01:19:25,240
Speaker 2: this may be totally legitimate, This may be you know,

1506
01:19:25,320 --> 01:19:27,719
Speaker 2: it may not be that fish. It may be that fish.

1507
01:19:27,840 --> 01:19:31,639
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't really care. But here's how

1508
01:19:31,720 --> 01:19:36,040
Speaker 2: wax record keeping was even then nineteen forty nine. This

1509
01:19:36,200 --> 01:19:38,519
Speaker 2: is a letter from Field and Stream, who were the

1510
01:19:38,520 --> 01:19:40,080
Speaker 2: world record keepers at the time.

1511
01:19:40,280 --> 01:19:42,160
Speaker 1: Now at that point in time was Field and Stream.

1512
01:19:42,160 --> 01:19:44,320
Speaker 1: Field and Stream, because they've sold off the rights of

1513
01:19:44,360 --> 01:19:46,160
Speaker 1: that name and all kinds. Yeah, they were, they were,

1514
01:19:46,200 --> 01:19:50,240
Speaker 1: So it was affiliate with the magazine back then, right, Yeah.

1515
01:19:49,320 --> 01:19:53,919
Speaker 2: So letter to Cal Johnson. We recently received a clipping

1516
01:19:54,040 --> 01:19:56,719
Speaker 2: covering your sixty seven and a half pound musculin's catch.

1517
01:19:56,960 --> 01:20:00,000
Speaker 2: Congratulations on a fine catch and setting a new world record.

1518
01:20:00,800 --> 01:20:03,400
Speaker 2: We'd like very much to have an entry from you

1519
01:20:03,479 --> 01:20:07,080
Speaker 2: in our annual fishing contest, and an entry blank is

1520
01:20:07,200 --> 01:20:12,080
Speaker 2: enclosed herewith for that program they actually chased the record, okay.

1521
01:20:13,520 --> 01:20:17,440
Speaker 2: Also in the case of the world records, if possible,

1522
01:20:17,600 --> 01:20:22,440
Speaker 2: If possible, we would like to have an affidavit attesting

1523
01:20:22,479 --> 01:20:24,920
Speaker 2: to the accuracy of the scales on which the fish

1524
01:20:25,040 --> 01:20:28,479
Speaker 2: was weighed. To this day, there's never been any proof

1525
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:31,160
Speaker 2: the scales were certified, and it was weighed on two

1526
01:20:31,160 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 2: different scales, as well as two or three additional witnesses

1527
01:20:35,640 --> 01:20:38,240
Speaker 2: to the weighing and measuring. This is not because we

1528
01:20:38,360 --> 01:20:41,639
Speaker 2: have any doubt as to the weight, but merely serves

1529
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:44,519
Speaker 2: as a protection to both ourselves and to the angler.

1530
01:20:46,040 --> 01:20:48,639
Speaker 2: If you have one or two good pictures to spare,

1531
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:53,920
Speaker 2: we would appreciate receiving those also. That's how lacks World

1532
01:20:53,960 --> 01:20:57,320
Speaker 2: Records certification was in those days. Yep.

1533
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:01,599
Speaker 1: So when you go into looking at a fish, when

1534
01:21:01,640 --> 01:21:06,040
Speaker 1: you go into investigating a fish, are you hoping? And

1535
01:21:06,080 --> 01:21:08,760
Speaker 1: you gotta be honest? Okay, I'm trying. I want to

1536
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:11,360
Speaker 1: tap into your deepest, most honest thought.

1537
01:21:11,720 --> 01:21:12,479
Speaker 2: I'm ready for you.

1538
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:15,639
Speaker 1: Are you hoping it's a phony? Or are you hoping

1539
01:21:15,680 --> 01:21:16,719
Speaker 1: it's a new world record.

1540
01:21:16,720 --> 01:21:19,160
Speaker 2: I'm glad you asked that question. When I wrote the

1541
01:21:19,160 --> 01:21:23,840
Speaker 2: first edition on the Compendium nineteen eighty one, I did

1542
01:21:23,960 --> 01:21:28,520
Speaker 2: everything I could to prove that the records were legitimate.

1543
01:21:29,080 --> 01:21:31,720
Speaker 2: I did not go looking for any negatives got it.

1544
01:21:31,800 --> 01:21:33,719
Speaker 2: If one would have popped up, I uld have jumped

1545
01:21:33,720 --> 01:21:37,120
Speaker 2: all over it. But my goal was to record history.

1546
01:21:37,160 --> 01:21:41,080
Speaker 2: That was it, and so I was trying to find

1547
01:21:41,160 --> 01:21:44,280
Speaker 2: every bit of information I could that would substantiate the fish.

1548
01:21:44,560 --> 01:21:44,960
Speaker 1: Got it.

1549
01:21:45,479 --> 01:21:48,000
Speaker 2: That was in nineteen eighty one. Nineteen ninety seven, I

1550
01:21:48,040 --> 01:21:51,120
Speaker 2: did an update, kind of screwed it up a little bit,

1551
01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:54,400
Speaker 2: but I was back on the track of these fish

1552
01:21:54,400 --> 01:21:57,400
Speaker 2: were bogus and then I did this third edition in

1553
01:21:57,400 --> 01:22:04,200
Speaker 2: two thousand and seven, and uh, that's a very very

1554
01:22:04,240 --> 01:22:07,599
Speaker 2: hard read volume one, because it gets so much into

1555
01:22:07,640 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 2: depth and of how we determined this, and how we

1556
01:22:11,240 --> 01:22:15,800
Speaker 2: determine that, and what have you. But UH, when when

1557
01:22:15,880 --> 01:22:22,840
Speaker 2: dell Off first made his proposals to get Lawton's fish disqualified,

1558
01:22:23,600 --> 01:22:26,559
Speaker 2: I was working a lot of hours as traveling, I

1559
01:22:26,600 --> 01:22:28,600
Speaker 2: was moving from one town to another, and so I

1560
01:22:28,600 --> 01:22:30,640
Speaker 2: didn't really scrutinize it like I should have, And I

1561
01:22:30,720 --> 01:22:33,880
Speaker 2: regret that ever since. In fact, it keeps me awake nights.

1562
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:37,160
Speaker 1: But because you wish what would have happened.

1563
01:22:37,320 --> 01:22:39,240
Speaker 2: I wish I would have looked at it closer, because

1564
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:43,000
Speaker 2: as you will see if you read this, I've spent

1565
01:22:43,160 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 2: probably a fifth of that book debunking his protest, his.

1566
01:22:49,680 --> 01:22:52,680
Speaker 1: His like he wasn't being fair.

1567
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:58,240
Speaker 2: Right, and he proved that out on his own self.

1568
01:22:58,439 --> 01:23:04,759
Speaker 2: By Uh, when the Wrima protested the sprayfish, the sixty

1569
01:23:04,840 --> 01:23:09,720
Speaker 2: nine to eleven fish that replaced the sixty nineteen fifteen blottonfish,

1570
01:23:11,320 --> 01:23:13,680
Speaker 2: he I was at that time. I was on the

1571
01:23:13,720 --> 01:23:19,559
Speaker 2: hall board, I was the world record advisor, and WA

1572
01:23:19,680 --> 01:23:22,040
Speaker 2: made the protest. It was a ninety some page this

1573
01:23:22,160 --> 01:23:26,520
Speaker 2: big black notebook here of all the things that they found,

1574
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:28,320
Speaker 2: louis a no good son.

1575
01:23:28,200 --> 01:23:30,200
Speaker 1: Of a bitch and a ninety page takedown.

1576
01:23:33,040 --> 01:23:34,920
Speaker 2: They would not allow me to sit in on the

1577
01:23:34,960 --> 01:23:38,719
Speaker 2: meeting to review this protest, even though I'm the world

1578
01:23:38,720 --> 01:23:41,000
Speaker 2: record advisor for the Hall and I built that program

1579
01:23:41,040 --> 01:23:44,200
Speaker 2: from scratch. So I asked John Dellof, who at the

1580
01:23:44,200 --> 01:23:46,600
Speaker 2: time was the director of the Hall of Fame, for

1581
01:23:46,760 --> 01:23:50,719
Speaker 2: the president president of the Board. I says, why can't

1582
01:23:50,720 --> 01:23:52,840
Speaker 2: I sit in on this meeting? He says, because that's

1583
01:23:52,840 --> 01:23:55,960
Speaker 2: the way I want it, because he knew if I

1584
01:23:56,080 --> 01:23:58,320
Speaker 2: was there he couldn't control the narrative.

1585
01:23:58,800 --> 01:23:59,000
Speaker 1: Yep.

1586
01:24:00,000 --> 01:24:03,240
Speaker 2: In fact, he allowed me fifteen minutes to make a

1587
01:24:03,280 --> 01:24:06,200
Speaker 2: presentation of the board and that was it. And they

1588
01:24:06,240 --> 01:24:08,559
Speaker 2: had blow ups of the affidavits as big as that

1589
01:24:08,720 --> 01:24:11,360
Speaker 2: plane picture behind you there as well. One of the

1590
01:24:11,400 --> 01:24:14,080
Speaker 2: board members asked me, he says, how can you contest

1591
01:24:14,120 --> 01:24:17,479
Speaker 2: these affai Davids, I said, ask that gentleman there, because

1592
01:24:18,000 --> 01:24:25,680
Speaker 2: Lawton had five legitimate affidavids to the weight of his fish.

1593
01:24:26,200 --> 01:24:31,120
Speaker 2: And when Detlof did his protest and they disqualified it,

1594
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:35,719
Speaker 2: four of those witnesses came forward and re signed another

1595
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:39,160
Speaker 2: alpha David the fish was legitimate, and he found three

1596
01:24:39,240 --> 01:24:43,480
Speaker 2: new witnesses. Three new witnesses found two of them made affidavids,

1597
01:24:43,479 --> 01:24:45,759
Speaker 2: and one of them was the next door neighbor to Lawtons,

1598
01:24:45,760 --> 01:24:49,600
Speaker 2: and he verified Detloff made up his own Affidavid for

1599
01:24:49,640 --> 01:24:52,720
Speaker 2: the kid to sign, so he didn't really understand what

1600
01:24:52,800 --> 01:24:55,240
Speaker 2: he was signing. But what he did say in there

1601
01:24:55,479 --> 01:25:00,679
Speaker 2: was that on subsequent weekends that Lawton's brought home one

1602
01:25:00,720 --> 01:25:03,960
Speaker 2: weekend nine big fish, the biggest one was forty nine pounds,

1603
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:06,519
Speaker 2: and the next week ends when he got the sixty

1604
01:25:06,600 --> 01:25:11,240
Speaker 2: nine to fifteen, and he was witnessed to both of them,

1605
01:25:11,280 --> 01:25:14,720
Speaker 2: where Deloff was trying to say that because the photographs

1606
01:25:14,720 --> 01:25:17,160
Speaker 2: that appeared in Field and Stream were of the forty

1607
01:25:17,240 --> 01:25:21,080
Speaker 2: nine pounder, that that's the one Lawton was claiming to

1608
01:25:21,120 --> 01:25:22,920
Speaker 2: be the sixty nine pounder yep.

1609
01:25:23,680 --> 01:25:23,960
Speaker 1: And so.

1610
01:25:25,400 --> 01:25:31,200
Speaker 2: Then IGFA, after the wim protests, said that you can't

1611
01:25:31,240 --> 01:25:33,760
Speaker 2: tell from a two dimensional photograph the weight of a

1612
01:25:33,800 --> 01:25:38,120
Speaker 2: fish you but Mike come back to them was but

1613
01:25:38,240 --> 01:25:41,479
Speaker 2: you can tell if it was phonied up enough, because

1614
01:25:41,520 --> 01:25:45,040
Speaker 2: the photographmetry proves that it was twenty five percent smaller

1615
01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:49,200
Speaker 2: than it actually claimed to be and plus you got

1616
01:25:49,240 --> 01:25:52,639
Speaker 2: the witnesses, the weight witness and he said the president,

1617
01:25:52,640 --> 01:25:57,680
Speaker 2: the current president of the IJFA, said that IGFA recognizes

1618
01:25:57,720 --> 01:26:04,479
Speaker 2: all tackle records by scale weight only period. Well, we

1619
01:26:04,560 --> 01:26:08,240
Speaker 2: had what ten alfi, David's or so of Lawton's fish,

1620
01:26:08,520 --> 01:26:11,360
Speaker 2: and they won't reinstate it. I want to know why

1621
01:26:11,920 --> 01:26:17,240
Speaker 2: they won't answer me. But if if it's by witnessed

1622
01:26:17,280 --> 01:26:19,479
Speaker 2: weight on a certified scale, which it.

1623
01:26:19,479 --> 01:26:20,519
Speaker 1: Was, what's the argument.

1624
01:26:22,600 --> 01:26:25,320
Speaker 2: They won't tell me. They won't talk to me. They'll

1625
01:26:25,320 --> 01:26:27,439
Speaker 2: talk The other guys will talk to me. The record

1626
01:26:27,520 --> 01:26:29,439
Speaker 2: keeper now will talk to me, but the president won't

1627
01:26:29,479 --> 01:26:31,320
Speaker 2: talk to me. I've sent him two letters and he's

1628
01:26:31,360 --> 01:26:32,400
Speaker 2: not answered either one of them.

1629
01:26:33,640 --> 01:26:36,559
Speaker 1: So you've lost I've lost friendships over this time.

1630
01:26:36,600 --> 01:26:41,200
Speaker 2: Well absolutely, I told him you're a hypocrite. IJFA is hypocritical.

1631
01:26:41,880 --> 01:26:44,400
Speaker 2: You first set Lawton aside because of the photograph, but

1632
01:26:44,439 --> 01:26:47,400
Speaker 2: that wasn't it at all, because when it comes to

1633
01:26:47,479 --> 01:26:51,200
Speaker 2: Johnson's fish, it can't go by photographs, so we're gonna

1634
01:26:51,200 --> 01:26:55,400
Speaker 2: go by scale weight, certified Scalewaight. Well, Lawton had all that,

1635
01:26:55,760 --> 01:26:57,920
Speaker 2: so he said, have never been disqualified in the first place.

1636
01:26:58,720 --> 01:27:00,679
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, I've lost a lot of friends I lost.

1637
01:27:00,760 --> 01:27:05,040
Speaker 2: You know, the guy that did the protest, the current

1638
01:27:05,080 --> 01:27:06,800
Speaker 2: director of the Hall of Fame was my best friend

1639
01:27:06,840 --> 01:27:10,200
Speaker 2: at the time, and that went by the wayside. In fact,

1640
01:27:10,240 --> 01:27:12,600
Speaker 2: we were supposed to go to Texas duck hunt and

1641
01:27:12,680 --> 01:27:14,360
Speaker 2: he had to cancel the trips so we could stay

1642
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:18,920
Speaker 2: there and help build their bullshit case against the WWME protests.

1643
01:27:19,720 --> 01:27:21,000
Speaker 1: So when was that?

1644
01:27:21,000 --> 01:27:24,679
Speaker 2: That was in two thousand and six.

1645
01:27:25,560 --> 01:27:28,080
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen guys come to blows over muskies?

1646
01:27:30,280 --> 01:27:32,559
Speaker 2: I don't think so. I mean, there's a lot of

1647
01:27:32,560 --> 01:27:35,680
Speaker 2: bad blood in the muskie world, but there's a lot

1648
01:27:35,720 --> 01:27:38,760
Speaker 2: of good blood and musky world too, I mean the

1649
01:27:39,280 --> 01:27:43,679
Speaker 2: serious I know all the top names in the game.

1650
01:27:43,880 --> 01:27:44,160
Speaker 1: Yep.

1651
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:47,080
Speaker 2: Fished with a lot of them, friends with a lot

1652
01:27:47,080 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 2: of them. My personal guide on the Saint Lawrence River

1653
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,560
Speaker 2: is probably the best on the planet. I'm piassed a

1654
01:27:52,560 --> 01:27:55,720
Speaker 2: little bit, but he's caught over fifty to fifty pounders.

1655
01:27:55,840 --> 01:27:59,240
Speaker 2: You know, Wow, there's nobody in history, I mean very

1656
01:27:59,240 --> 01:28:01,439
Speaker 2: few muskerfish and I ever catch a thirty pounder, let

1657
01:28:01,479 --> 01:28:04,120
Speaker 2: alone a fifty pound He's caught two fifty eight and

1658
01:28:04,120 --> 01:28:06,200
Speaker 2: a half pounders. His clients have called him, but he

1659
01:28:06,280 --> 01:28:09,160
Speaker 2: was the guide to mean, in my mind that fish

1660
01:28:09,160 --> 01:28:11,040
Speaker 2: that I showed you that I called it was his fish.

1661
01:28:11,080 --> 01:28:13,000
Speaker 2: He was He put us on the fish. I just

1662
01:28:13,040 --> 01:28:13,479
Speaker 2: reeled it in.

1663
01:28:15,080 --> 01:28:17,880
Speaker 1: But what do you think about like a what do

1664
01:28:17,880 --> 01:28:22,360
Speaker 1: you think about a world, a subset of fishing, hunting,

1665
01:28:22,400 --> 01:28:28,960
Speaker 1: subset whatever that gets to where everything, you know, it

1666
01:28:29,000 --> 01:28:31,479
Speaker 1: just winds up being that every picture is is like,

1667
01:28:32,320 --> 01:28:36,080
Speaker 1: how what an idiot someone is? They did that wrong.

1668
01:28:36,840 --> 01:28:39,680
Speaker 1: They caught a big one, but they were lucky. They

1669
01:28:39,720 --> 01:28:43,639
Speaker 1: didn't deserve it. They must have been lying.

1670
01:28:43,800 --> 01:28:46,840
Speaker 2: That's jealousy at most of it. Yeah, there's a lot

1671
01:28:46,840 --> 01:28:49,479
Speaker 2: of that goes on. But you know, the guys that

1672
01:28:49,520 --> 01:28:56,439
Speaker 2: are consistent, they're respected. They're respected most of them. I mean,

1673
01:28:56,479 --> 01:29:02,800
Speaker 2: there's there's always some screwballs that make fun or deny anything, yep,

1674
01:29:03,200 --> 01:29:07,680
Speaker 2: But for the most part, like this fish, let's say

1675
01:29:07,680 --> 01:29:11,200
Speaker 2: I did weigh seventy two pounds. If it had been

1676
01:29:11,880 --> 01:29:16,160
Speaker 2: properly documented, we would be celebrating it. The one thing

1677
01:29:16,200 --> 01:29:18,320
Speaker 2: that blew me away and I kind of got that

1678
01:29:18,400 --> 01:29:21,519
Speaker 2: explained to me when I talked to Observing number five

1679
01:29:22,360 --> 01:29:26,559
Speaker 2: that anybody in the musky world that I know, if

1680
01:29:26,560 --> 01:29:28,639
Speaker 2: they catch the world record, they're gonna be screaming from

1681
01:29:28,640 --> 01:29:32,479
Speaker 2: the rooftops. Yeah, I mean, and some guys would be

1682
01:29:32,520 --> 01:29:36,920
Speaker 2: looking for sponsorships and whatever and free taxidermy the whole

1683
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:39,960
Speaker 2: nine yards. But not a peep out of these guys.

1684
01:29:40,720 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 2: And so I put a challenge on the post that

1685
01:29:42,720 --> 01:29:45,240
Speaker 2: I made a muskie first and not a peep. And

1686
01:29:45,280 --> 01:29:47,519
Speaker 2: I thought the guy that published the picture without the

1687
01:29:47,560 --> 01:29:49,960
Speaker 2: heads was one of the group. Well it turns out

1688
01:29:50,040 --> 01:29:52,200
Speaker 2: that when I talked to observing number five, he said

1689
01:29:52,240 --> 01:29:56,400
Speaker 2: that it's obviously one of our our inner circle, but

1690
01:29:56,479 --> 01:29:58,960
Speaker 2: we don't know who it was. It wasn't one of

1691
01:29:58,960 --> 01:30:03,240
Speaker 2: the five. So that's that's one thing that had thrown me,

1692
01:30:03,360 --> 01:30:06,160
Speaker 2: is why we weren't hearing from him back, like, well,

1693
01:30:06,200 --> 01:30:08,040
Speaker 2: show you a picture and won't tell you nothing else.

1694
01:30:08,880 --> 01:30:11,600
Speaker 2: And you know, I emailed this guy private email a

1695
01:30:11,640 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 2: couple of times and never got any response because he

1696
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:15,920
Speaker 2: wasn't burt of the group. He didn't know anything.

1697
01:30:16,800 --> 01:30:19,360
Speaker 1: Was there a time when you how bad did you

1698
01:30:19,400 --> 01:30:21,759
Speaker 1: want to be a world record holder?

1699
01:30:23,040 --> 01:30:26,439
Speaker 2: Since nineteen fifty seven you were hoping for that to happen.

1700
01:30:27,000 --> 01:30:28,880
Speaker 1: I mean that have you given up or you think

1701
01:30:28,880 --> 01:30:29,760
Speaker 1: you still got a chance.

1702
01:30:29,800 --> 01:30:32,760
Speaker 2: I still got a shot But here's the thing. You've

1703
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:36,360
Speaker 2: got a fish where they are. And I always tell people,

1704
01:30:37,200 --> 01:30:39,120
Speaker 2: if you want to catch a big musky, you've got

1705
01:30:39,120 --> 01:30:40,400
Speaker 2: to go where big muskies live.

1706
01:30:40,520 --> 01:30:40,880
Speaker 1: Amen.

1707
01:30:41,560 --> 01:30:45,799
Speaker 2: And if you don't, your odds are zero. And that's

1708
01:30:46,320 --> 01:30:49,040
Speaker 2: that's one of the things about you know, we promote

1709
01:30:49,040 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 2: catch and release for everybody of water because all of

1710
01:30:52,160 --> 01:30:54,000
Speaker 2: them can be hurt with too much pressure and too

1711
01:30:54,040 --> 01:31:00,519
Speaker 2: much harvests, as I've proven, I think based on mortality,

1712
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:03,360
Speaker 2: and the more newros, newcomers that come to the game

1713
01:31:03,640 --> 01:31:05,800
Speaker 2: and don't not handle these fish, it's gonna get worse.

1714
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:09,760
Speaker 2: So we need to start a bigger education program on

1715
01:31:09,880 --> 01:31:13,559
Speaker 2: how to handle these fish. But you know, experience tops everything.

1716
01:31:13,560 --> 01:31:15,080
Speaker 2: You've got to handle a few of them to learn

1717
01:31:15,120 --> 01:31:18,040
Speaker 2: how to handle them. So it's a double edged sword.

1718
01:31:18,120 --> 01:31:20,840
Speaker 2: But if we get too many at one thrust in

1719
01:31:20,920 --> 01:31:22,599
Speaker 2: the game and they don't want to handle them, they're

1720
01:31:22,600 --> 01:31:24,920
Speaker 2: gonna kill everything to catch and we'll be back to

1721
01:31:24,960 --> 01:31:29,240
Speaker 2: the mid nineteen fifties and one hundred thousand fish go

1722
01:31:30,000 --> 01:31:31,080
Speaker 2: to the grave every tear.

1723
01:31:32,439 --> 01:31:36,599
Speaker 1: You know what this guy's actual name is, Musky Chat,

1724
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:39,800
Speaker 1: Musky Chet. This guy's coming hot on your hot on

1725
01:31:39,840 --> 01:31:40,640
Speaker 1: your heels.

1726
01:31:40,360 --> 01:31:44,479
Speaker 2: Dude, welcome. In fact, I've been trying to find somebody

1727
01:31:44,479 --> 01:31:46,559
Speaker 2: to take over for me because I'm not gonna live forever.

1728
01:31:46,760 --> 01:31:49,320
Speaker 4: There we go, I'll be the next musky.

1729
01:31:49,560 --> 01:31:50,400
Speaker 5: You got a spare room?

1730
01:31:51,920 --> 01:31:54,800
Speaker 2: Unfortunately no, but I need somebody to move in for

1731
01:31:54,840 --> 01:31:58,880
Speaker 2: a while. The problem I've got And I was talking

1732
01:31:58,920 --> 01:32:02,840
Speaker 2: to Krint Carimat at lunch today, I said, if you

1733
01:32:02,880 --> 01:32:05,200
Speaker 2: were to saw the top of my head off, got

1734
01:32:05,280 --> 01:32:09,040
Speaker 2: you a bunch of little musky swim around.

1735
01:32:10,560 --> 01:32:12,320
Speaker 1: If it wasn't muskies, what would have what do you

1736
01:32:12,320 --> 01:32:15,200
Speaker 1: think it would have been? Because you know what, oh

1737
01:32:15,680 --> 01:32:16,599
Speaker 1: you already I.

1738
01:32:16,560 --> 01:32:20,040
Speaker 2: Was a big time duck hunter for a long time. Yeah, yeah, do.

1739
01:32:20,000 --> 01:32:21,639
Speaker 1: You feel like he got a little bit of a

1740
01:32:23,320 --> 01:32:24,519
Speaker 1: do you got? Do you feel like you got like

1741
01:32:24,520 --> 01:32:27,280
Speaker 1: some like a O C D or like uh or

1742
01:32:27,360 --> 01:32:30,240
Speaker 1: like like do you feel that if it was for muskies,

1743
01:32:30,240 --> 01:32:32,280
Speaker 1: you would have been into something that you can count,

1744
01:32:32,560 --> 01:32:34,240
Speaker 1: probably something that you could qualify.

1745
01:32:34,400 --> 01:32:34,879
Speaker 2: Probably.

1746
01:32:35,120 --> 01:32:37,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. We met a guy he passed away recently that

1747
01:32:37,880 --> 01:32:42,200
Speaker 1: was an antler collector. Okay, right, And if God had

1748
01:32:42,240 --> 01:32:44,920
Speaker 1: never put antlers on deer, that's some bit would been

1749
01:32:44,960 --> 01:32:47,400
Speaker 1: collecting something. I don't know what it would have been.

1750
01:32:47,439 --> 01:32:49,679
Speaker 1: It would have been petrified rocks. It would have been

1751
01:32:50,640 --> 01:32:52,880
Speaker 1: like something he.

1752
01:32:52,840 --> 01:32:55,560
Speaker 2: Was born to collect to collect.

1753
01:32:56,600 --> 01:32:59,080
Speaker 1: It's just like a freak chance sort of that he

1754
01:32:59,200 --> 01:33:00,000
Speaker 1: got onto antlers.

1755
01:33:00,439 --> 01:33:04,120
Speaker 2: I've got all kinds of collections, Musky pins, musky buttons,

1756
01:33:04,200 --> 01:33:10,559
Speaker 2: musky patches, musky bottles, musky wineglasses, musky beer cans, you

1757
01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:13,000
Speaker 2: name it, musky, I got it.

1758
01:33:13,000 --> 01:33:16,720
Speaker 1: It's just do you feel like, are you glad about it?

1759
01:33:18,920 --> 01:33:21,640
Speaker 1: Are you ever afraid you'd someday be like, God, damn it?

1760
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:23,639
Speaker 1: Really muskies, no whole life.

1761
01:33:23,760 --> 01:33:26,080
Speaker 2: No, I wouldn't trade it for anything. I wouldn't go

1762
01:33:26,120 --> 01:33:29,760
Speaker 2: back and start something different. I'm happy with where I've

1763
01:33:29,800 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 2: been and still going.

1764
01:33:32,200 --> 01:33:34,200
Speaker 6: So how do you feel about the fate of the fishery.

1765
01:33:35,000 --> 01:33:42,000
Speaker 2: I'm worried about the new handling explosion, new anglers, and

1766
01:33:42,000 --> 01:33:45,400
Speaker 2: I'm worried about Ford facing sonar. If the guys use

1767
01:33:45,439 --> 01:33:47,280
Speaker 2: it ethically, I got no problem with it.

1768
01:33:47,880 --> 01:33:51,160
Speaker 6: What's an ethical way versus a not ethical way?

1769
01:33:51,360 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 2: Okay? Muskies, Big Muskies spend a lot of time in

1770
01:33:54,120 --> 01:33:56,400
Speaker 2: deep water bear trauma.

1771
01:33:56,840 --> 01:33:58,840
Speaker 1: Is that same with the same with northerns.

1772
01:33:58,920 --> 01:34:02,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, big, the big, Northern, small, Northern stay shallow yep

1773
01:34:02,520 --> 01:34:06,240
Speaker 2: So if in the summertime, when the water surface temperature

1774
01:34:06,280 --> 01:34:09,920
Speaker 2: seventy five, seventy eight, even eighty degrees and you're pulling

1775
01:34:09,920 --> 01:34:12,160
Speaker 2: a fish out of forty feet of water that's probably

1776
01:34:12,760 --> 01:34:16,600
Speaker 2: sixty eight degrees down there, you're gonna kill it fish

1777
01:34:16,600 --> 01:34:19,120
Speaker 2: pretty much. That's where the ethics come in.

1778
01:34:19,360 --> 01:34:22,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, but you're gonna use this technology. They're gonna handle

1779
01:34:22,400 --> 01:34:25,000
Speaker 1: more fish, They're gonna be catching more fish in their

1780
01:34:25,040 --> 01:34:27,880
Speaker 1: own places. They're gonna be maybe not so educated on

1781
01:34:27,920 --> 01:34:29,840
Speaker 1: how to deal with them once they do catch them.

1782
01:34:30,479 --> 01:34:32,720
Speaker 1: And it's just each fish is gonna be more exposed

1783
01:34:32,720 --> 01:34:35,040
Speaker 1: to more higher likelihood of getting handled.

1784
01:34:35,080 --> 01:34:38,759
Speaker 4: Hearing this, Yeah, so I've got this is like I said,

1785
01:34:38,800 --> 01:34:43,599
Speaker 4: this topic is opening up a can of worms. There

1786
01:34:43,680 --> 01:34:50,000
Speaker 4: are some spot faced sonars there. There's absolutely no doubt

1787
01:34:50,240 --> 01:34:51,599
Speaker 4: that it helps you catch fish.

1788
01:34:52,120 --> 01:34:55,280
Speaker 2: Oh absolutely, there's that badfish. Guides are loving it.

1789
01:34:55,439 --> 01:34:57,200
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's that's not propies are.

1790
01:34:57,080 --> 01:34:59,840
Speaker 2: Going to put the first one to suffer the things that.

1791
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:03,720
Speaker 4: Oh that this has to be very self governing, which

1792
01:35:03,760 --> 01:35:07,200
Speaker 4: is very hard to do. Exactly if people are just

1793
01:35:07,240 --> 01:35:11,240
Speaker 4: catching fish and not handling correctly, Yeah, that's a problem. However,

1794
01:35:11,320 --> 01:35:15,280
Speaker 4: there are arguments to be had how forward facing sonar

1795
01:35:15,400 --> 01:35:18,800
Speaker 4: can educate you if learned how to use it property

1796
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:22,240
Speaker 4: Like if you are fishing, for example, on a break

1797
01:35:22,280 --> 01:35:26,080
Speaker 4: line right that is in ten feet of water, but

1798
01:35:26,200 --> 01:35:29,200
Speaker 4: it's close to forty feet of water, and you can't

1799
01:35:29,240 --> 01:35:33,360
Speaker 4: see down in some deep weeds or something where muskies

1800
01:35:33,400 --> 01:35:36,800
Speaker 4: could be, you know, being caught, and you're casting this

1801
01:35:36,920 --> 01:35:42,000
Speaker 4: break line. The water temperature is pushing eighty degrees and

1802
01:35:42,200 --> 01:35:44,000
Speaker 4: all of a sudden you see a muskie shoot up

1803
01:35:44,000 --> 01:35:46,559
Speaker 4: out of that forty feet of water into the ten

1804
01:35:46,600 --> 01:35:50,240
Speaker 4: feet of water and you catch them. That's probably not

1805
01:35:50,360 --> 01:35:53,280
Speaker 4: a good thing, but you just learned something there with

1806
01:35:53,439 --> 01:35:56,000
Speaker 4: live sonar that would be really hard to learn if

1807
01:35:56,040 --> 01:35:56,880
Speaker 4: you didn't have it.

1808
01:35:57,120 --> 01:36:01,120
Speaker 1: Oh well, yeah, I'm very simpathetic to what you're saying

1809
01:36:01,160 --> 01:36:08,480
Speaker 1: right now, is that, uh, it educates, and all this technology,

1810
01:36:08,920 --> 01:36:13,200
Speaker 1: not all that much of the technology educates. We used

1811
01:36:13,200 --> 01:36:16,040
Speaker 1: to like at our area where we are in southeast Alaska.

1812
01:36:16,479 --> 01:36:18,160
Speaker 1: If you to I'm not kidding. If you'd come to

1813
01:36:18,160 --> 01:36:22,240
Speaker 1: me ten years ago, not even ten years ago, eight

1814
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:23,960
Speaker 1: years ago, seven years ago, you'd come to me, I

1815
01:36:23,960 --> 01:36:26,680
Speaker 1: would have said, for some weird reason, we don't have

1816
01:36:26,800 --> 01:36:34,000
Speaker 1: link cod where we're at. I would have said that

1817
01:36:34,160 --> 01:36:36,559
Speaker 1: up until a very like definable moment. I would have

1818
01:36:36,560 --> 01:36:39,320
Speaker 1: said that until I got my hands on navionics. Once

1819
01:36:39,360 --> 01:36:41,519
Speaker 1: I got my hands on navionics, I'm like, oh shit,

1820
01:36:41,640 --> 01:36:46,040
Speaker 1: was linkoind all over place? I just never knew. I

1821
01:36:46,120 --> 01:36:49,559
Speaker 1: never understood the contours. We used to fish off marine

1822
01:36:49,600 --> 01:36:55,120
Speaker 1: charts with like like handfuls of uh fathom readings on

1823
01:36:55,200 --> 01:36:58,200
Speaker 1: marine charts, paper marine charts. Once I knew, like, oh

1824
01:36:58,240 --> 01:37:02,120
Speaker 1: my god, this's like that down there, and there's specific

1825
01:37:03,439 --> 01:37:08,559
Speaker 1: ridgelines and specific pinnacle tops and like that one doesn't,

1826
01:37:08,680 --> 01:37:15,160
Speaker 1: this one does, that one doesn't. It's hugely educational. I've

1827
01:37:15,280 --> 01:37:17,880
Speaker 1: learned so much about Lincott I'll tell you an art thing.

1828
01:37:18,600 --> 01:37:20,760
Speaker 1: We've cleaned a lot of Lincott off a lot of hilltops.

1829
01:37:22,120 --> 01:37:25,160
Speaker 1: It's like they go, you know, so the the new,

1830
01:37:25,360 --> 01:37:28,640
Speaker 1: the all the knowledge and information is great, it's beautiful,

1831
01:37:30,560 --> 01:37:34,280
Speaker 1: but you can hurt of fisher. Well, we never scratched

1832
01:37:34,280 --> 01:37:38,639
Speaker 1: those fish. We never ever scratched those fish, but you could.

1833
01:37:38,760 --> 01:37:39,599
Speaker 1: I know where they're at now.

1834
01:37:41,120 --> 01:37:44,720
Speaker 2: The first thing to like coming into ethics as far

1835
01:37:44,760 --> 01:37:49,160
Speaker 2: as you're hunting, when you fly into do go hunting

1836
01:37:49,160 --> 01:37:52,719
Speaker 2: in Alaska, Canada, you can't hunt the same day, right, correct,

1837
01:37:53,240 --> 01:37:56,840
Speaker 2: that's that's ethics. That's the same thing. I look at

1838
01:37:56,920 --> 01:37:59,280
Speaker 2: the forward fishing Somar. If you're going to run.

1839
01:37:59,680 --> 01:38:02,160
Speaker 1: I would argue ethics would be that you could, but

1840
01:38:02,280 --> 01:38:02,880
Speaker 1: choose not to.

1841
01:38:04,040 --> 01:38:05,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the law is the law.

1842
01:38:05,600 --> 01:38:06,759
Speaker 1: Well, the law is the law.

1843
01:38:07,720 --> 01:38:09,880
Speaker 2: The law is but it's the law for a reason.

1844
01:38:12,840 --> 01:38:14,559
Speaker 1: Yeah, we're getting a little bit chicken under the egg here,

1845
01:38:14,560 --> 01:38:17,519
Speaker 1: but yeah, you're right. Yeah, we we codify ethics, like

1846
01:38:17,560 --> 01:38:19,639
Speaker 1: we have laws that are meant to like lay down

1847
01:38:19,720 --> 01:38:23,240
Speaker 1: ethical understandings, right, Like we don't murder is not illegal

1848
01:38:23,280 --> 01:38:26,599
Speaker 1: because you know, you create a lot of like yeah,

1849
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:29,720
Speaker 1: you create a lot of paperwork and big messes. It's

1850
01:38:29,760 --> 01:38:34,160
Speaker 1: like illegal because they've ethically decided that fracture side is bad. Yeah,

1851
01:38:34,160 --> 01:38:35,800
Speaker 1: you're right. Like a lot of a lot of law

1852
01:38:35,880 --> 01:38:39,519
Speaker 1: springs from ethics. A lot of method to take law

1853
01:38:39,600 --> 01:38:43,040
Speaker 1: and Baglin's and all that also spring from how would

1854
01:38:43,040 --> 01:38:46,719
Speaker 1: you put it resource management.

1855
01:38:46,880 --> 01:38:51,080
Speaker 2: There's one Canadian bologists been on the forums that where

1856
01:38:51,120 --> 01:38:55,840
Speaker 2: he is. He's in Manitoba. They have a none overrule

1857
01:38:58,360 --> 01:39:02,720
Speaker 2: red river big and catfit. Ye, well, you can keep

1858
01:39:02,760 --> 01:39:04,720
Speaker 2: them up to a certain size, but you can't keep

1859
01:39:04,760 --> 01:39:08,559
Speaker 2: any over that size because it's your breeders, and that's

1860
01:39:08,600 --> 01:39:10,920
Speaker 2: what he'd like to see happened to muskies, which would

1861
01:39:10,960 --> 01:39:13,479
Speaker 2: eliminate any possible future rural record obviously.

1862
01:39:14,240 --> 01:39:16,759
Speaker 1: But yeah, but you see what he's got a point

1863
01:39:17,000 --> 01:39:18,559
Speaker 1: that's pretty common in fisheries, right.

1864
01:39:18,520 --> 01:39:22,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, there's a lot of slot limits to maintain

1865
01:39:24,040 --> 01:39:26,920
Speaker 2: enough fish in the fishery to keep it going. So

1866
01:39:27,040 --> 01:39:31,600
Speaker 2: you control by side limits of controlled by by bag limits. Uh,

1867
01:39:32,200 --> 01:39:34,280
Speaker 2: one of the lakes and Hayward there, they just went

1868
01:39:34,320 --> 01:39:37,080
Speaker 2: to a five bag panfish limit this year of any

1869
01:39:37,160 --> 01:39:40,880
Speaker 2: species of panfish. Five can't keep more than five because

1870
01:39:40,880 --> 01:39:43,880
Speaker 2: they were slaughtered them. They can't. They can't take that

1871
01:39:44,000 --> 01:39:44,679
Speaker 2: kind of pressure.

1872
01:39:44,880 --> 01:39:47,280
Speaker 1: They couldn't settle on something like a little more compromin

1873
01:39:48,439 --> 01:39:54,280
Speaker 1: five five. Yeah, I said, how about.

1874
01:39:54,360 --> 01:39:55,840
Speaker 2: I'm not a pan fisherman, so I don't care.

1875
01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:59,320
Speaker 6: But you're like, I got this barrel scaler I'm real

1876
01:39:59,400 --> 01:40:02,799
Speaker 6: fond of and it doesn't start spinning until there's thirty

1877
01:40:02,800 --> 01:40:03,800
Speaker 6: fishing muzz.

1878
01:40:03,840 --> 01:40:06,519
Speaker 1: Well, sell the bucket scaler. Now what lake was that?

1879
01:40:06,920 --> 01:40:10,519
Speaker 2: It's most lake Okay, it's east of Hayward twenty five miles.

1880
01:40:10,800 --> 01:40:11,160
Speaker 1: Got it.

1881
01:40:11,760 --> 01:40:14,880
Speaker 4: If you find the panfish sometimes you find the muskies.

1882
01:40:14,520 --> 01:40:15,719
Speaker 5: Though Chester.

1883
01:40:15,800 --> 01:40:18,920
Speaker 3: Do you have aspirations of being a world record holder?

1884
01:40:20,560 --> 01:40:24,960
Speaker 4: Uh? I mean if I got got a big fish, like,

1885
01:40:25,120 --> 01:40:27,880
Speaker 4: for instance, Cal and I. One time we're out on

1886
01:40:28,200 --> 01:40:31,719
Speaker 4: a lake recent a couple of years ago around here,

1887
01:40:32,240 --> 01:40:35,880
Speaker 4: we caught a giant fish. We were not prepared. Do

1888
01:40:35,960 --> 01:40:40,120
Speaker 4: I really care that I would? You know? Could you know?

1889
01:40:40,439 --> 01:40:43,559
Speaker 4: It probably wasn't. I don't think could.

1890
01:40:43,600 --> 01:40:45,160
Speaker 5: I think it was, though, but go ahead?

1891
01:40:46,040 --> 01:40:50,640
Speaker 4: Could have like a state record. I don't necessarily think it.

1892
01:40:51,000 --> 01:40:53,759
Speaker 4: I care about having my name number one, but it'd

1893
01:40:53,800 --> 01:40:56,360
Speaker 4: just be nice to kind of know when my heart

1894
01:40:56,400 --> 01:40:59,599
Speaker 4: how big that fish was, you know. So like next

1895
01:40:59,600 --> 01:41:02,160
Speaker 4: time I I'm out in Wisconsin, you know, on a

1896
01:41:02,200 --> 01:41:06,320
Speaker 4: big fish water, I will I will be equipped with

1897
01:41:06,360 --> 01:41:09,599
Speaker 4: the right tools to actually know how big that fish is.

1898
01:41:09,840 --> 01:41:11,920
Speaker 1: Oh, if someone said to me, would you like a

1899
01:41:11,960 --> 01:41:15,519
Speaker 1: state record fish? I would say emphatically yes.

1900
01:41:15,400 --> 01:41:17,679
Speaker 4: Yes, right, yeah, I mean they.

1901
01:41:17,600 --> 01:41:20,360
Speaker 1: Said why, I'd be like, I'm not sure, but I

1902
01:41:20,439 --> 01:41:21,120
Speaker 1: know that I do.

1903
01:41:22,040 --> 01:41:22,840
Speaker 5: Fish is great.

1904
01:41:22,840 --> 01:41:25,000
Speaker 2: It's just a normal progression of mine. You want more

1905
01:41:25,000 --> 01:41:27,280
Speaker 2: and more and more better, better, better, bigger, bigger, bigger.

1906
01:41:27,400 --> 01:41:29,880
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's pretty fun. I was talking to a friend

1907
01:41:29,880 --> 01:41:34,320
Speaker 6: of mine yesterday and he was talking about how like

1908
01:41:34,439 --> 01:41:39,200
Speaker 6: trophy l hunts are bad for recruitment. I was like, well,

1909
01:41:39,240 --> 01:41:43,280
Speaker 6: why is that. He's like, have you ever ever run

1910
01:41:43,280 --> 01:41:46,640
Speaker 6: into some dude who paid twenty five thousand dollars to

1911
01:41:46,680 --> 01:41:49,559
Speaker 6: go on this super exclusive, big time el hunt and

1912
01:41:49,640 --> 01:41:51,519
Speaker 6: was like, and by the way, my six year old

1913
01:41:51,600 --> 01:41:52,920
Speaker 6: kid's going to be with us, He's going to be

1914
01:41:52,920 --> 01:41:56,439
Speaker 6: screwing everything up. And I was like, no, I guess

1915
01:41:56,439 --> 01:41:59,400
Speaker 6: I haven't.

1916
01:41:58,439 --> 01:42:00,200
Speaker 1: Unless I'm that following saying.

1917
01:42:00,080 --> 01:42:07,320
Speaker 6: He's like, he's like big time hunts don't propagate hunting

1918
01:42:07,880 --> 01:42:11,679
Speaker 6: because it's like he's like that the group of folks,

1919
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:13,040
Speaker 6: they're not bringing the kids along.

1920
01:42:13,160 --> 01:42:15,560
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I'm with you. Yeah, I'm with you. I

1921
01:42:15,560 --> 01:42:19,200
Speaker 1: don't know that entirely, but I should get what you're saying. Yeah, yeah,

1922
01:42:21,120 --> 01:42:22,760
Speaker 1: I could see something like that happened to me and

1923
01:42:22,800 --> 01:42:25,880
Speaker 1: being right away in my head being like, I'm not

1924
01:42:25,960 --> 01:42:27,680
Speaker 1: bringing all my freaking kids.

1925
01:42:27,760 --> 01:42:33,000
Speaker 4: Right, I'm the how much time.

1926
01:42:32,880 --> 01:42:33,360
Speaker 2: Are we at?

1927
01:42:33,479 --> 01:42:34,720
Speaker 1: We're at time to wrap it out?

1928
01:42:35,600 --> 01:42:38,280
Speaker 4: I wanted to talk go ahead, hit worry about fishing

1929
01:42:38,360 --> 01:42:40,120
Speaker 4: more actually fishing muskies.

1930
01:42:41,040 --> 01:42:42,040
Speaker 6: Yeah, give him the big one.

1931
01:42:42,439 --> 01:42:45,840
Speaker 4: There's there's one that I know the answer to this,

1932
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:47,920
Speaker 4: and I know what you're going to say, But the

1933
01:42:48,640 --> 01:42:51,840
Speaker 4: fish of a ten thousand casts, you know, that's what

1934
01:42:52,040 --> 01:42:57,920
Speaker 4: everyone calls the muskie. Yeah, we could talk about fishing.

1935
01:42:57,560 --> 01:42:59,920
Speaker 1: For Have you calculated it out? How many casts?

1936
01:43:00,120 --> 01:43:01,280
Speaker 2: That's not quite that many.

1937
01:43:02,000 --> 01:43:07,640
Speaker 4: I mean that would be one cast every minute for

1938
01:43:07,800 --> 01:43:09,400
Speaker 4: roughly seven days straight.

1939
01:43:11,479 --> 01:43:15,720
Speaker 2: And that was born a fact. Then in the mid

1940
01:43:15,840 --> 01:43:18,559
Speaker 2: nineteen hundreds, when they were killing one hundred thousand muskies

1941
01:43:18,560 --> 01:43:23,960
Speaker 2: a year, it probably took that many. But today, if

1942
01:43:23,960 --> 01:43:25,880
Speaker 2: you take more than a thousand casts, you're in the

1943
01:43:25,960 --> 01:43:31,599
Speaker 2: wrong spot. You're not doing something right. In fact, if.

1944
01:43:31,479 --> 01:43:35,320
Speaker 6: You had to catch a big musky, are you throwing

1945
01:43:36,080 --> 01:43:37,920
Speaker 6: baits or you're using a live.

1946
01:43:37,760 --> 01:43:42,040
Speaker 2: Bait throwing baits almost exclusively just.

1947
01:43:42,040 --> 01:43:43,360
Speaker 6: Because you're covering water.

1948
01:43:43,320 --> 01:43:48,280
Speaker 2: Covering water, and you're going to get in front of

1949
01:43:48,280 --> 01:43:51,240
Speaker 2: a big fish if you're on big fish water. For instance,

1950
01:43:51,240 --> 01:43:55,080
Speaker 2: when I first started going out yeast, we fished five

1951
01:43:55,160 --> 01:43:58,400
Speaker 2: days in July. We were there for five days. We

1952
01:43:58,520 --> 01:44:02,639
Speaker 2: catch twenty four fish, three of us yeah, and six

1953
01:44:02,680 --> 01:44:06,400
Speaker 2: of those would be fifty inches. Go back in August

1954
01:44:06,479 --> 01:44:11,400
Speaker 2: for another five days freezer fillers and catch forty in

1955
01:44:11,479 --> 01:44:15,599
Speaker 2: five days, and six of them over fifty inches hotter water,

1956
01:44:15,680 --> 01:44:18,040
Speaker 2: the fish are more active, metabolism is high, and they're

1957
01:44:18,160 --> 01:44:22,360
Speaker 2: going crazy, and they're stupid fish. It's not quite that

1958
01:44:22,439 --> 01:44:24,240
Speaker 2: good now because we've beat the hell out of them

1959
01:44:24,240 --> 01:44:27,000
Speaker 2: for twenty eight years, so in fact more than that.

1960
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:32,120
Speaker 2: But they're getting they're getting a little educated, harder to

1961
01:44:32,240 --> 01:44:36,200
Speaker 2: catch up. But we're still Last year was not a

1962
01:44:36,240 --> 01:44:39,439
Speaker 2: normal year. But on a normal year, three of us

1963
01:44:40,040 --> 01:44:43,840
Speaker 2: in the two weeks we should catch six or eight

1964
01:44:43,880 --> 01:44:47,160
Speaker 2: fifty inch fish or bigger, up to fifty seven fifty eight.

1965
01:44:47,240 --> 01:44:50,960
Speaker 2: My buddy who was nine weeks in a coma with COVID,

1966
01:44:51,880 --> 01:44:55,479
Speaker 2: got out of COVID, got a little bit healthy that

1967
01:44:55,720 --> 01:44:58,160
Speaker 2: when the Canadian border was closed with got a word

1968
01:44:58,160 --> 01:45:00,960
Speaker 2: they were going to open it up. At midnight on

1969
01:45:01,000 --> 01:45:03,080
Speaker 2: the night of opening, we were sitting at the border

1970
01:45:03,160 --> 01:45:07,920
Speaker 2: station in New York ready to go. And two days later,

1971
01:45:08,200 --> 01:45:11,479
Speaker 2: three days later, Saturday Sundays, two days later, you got

1972
01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:14,599
Speaker 2: a fifty eight and a half incher with a fourteen

1973
01:45:14,640 --> 01:45:17,880
Speaker 2: inch head. Imagine there's a fourteen inch fourteen and a

1974
01:45:17,920 --> 01:45:21,200
Speaker 2: half inch head. It's just incredible. It's incredible.

1975
01:45:21,560 --> 01:45:21,880
Speaker 3: What are you?

1976
01:45:22,200 --> 01:45:24,479
Speaker 5: Two last questions for me, how many musky baits?

1977
01:45:24,479 --> 01:45:27,240
Speaker 2: Do you have, Well, I don't have as many as

1978
01:45:27,240 --> 01:45:30,160
Speaker 2: I used to have, but I've probably still got several hundred.

1979
01:45:30,600 --> 01:45:32,840
Speaker 5: It seems like musky guys like their base.

1980
01:45:32,920 --> 01:45:34,840
Speaker 2: Here's the thing that drives me crazy being an author.

1981
01:45:35,960 --> 01:45:39,720
Speaker 2: These guys that are the nutcases would rather spend one

1982
01:45:39,840 --> 01:45:43,840
Speaker 2: hundred dollars on their seven hundred musky lure than to

1983
01:45:43,920 --> 01:45:47,519
Speaker 2: spend thirty five bucks for a book that explains the

1984
01:45:47,560 --> 01:45:49,839
Speaker 2: history of their part. It makes me crazy.

1985
01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:52,559
Speaker 5: Another question, what boat you fishing out of?

1986
01:45:53,120 --> 01:45:53,439
Speaker 1: Ranger?

1987
01:45:53,520 --> 01:45:56,559
Speaker 2: Normally nice?

1988
01:45:57,400 --> 01:45:58,800
Speaker 1: You know when you're talking about the fish of ten

1989
01:45:58,840 --> 01:46:01,920
Speaker 1: thousand casts and you calculate it out, how long you

1990
01:46:01,920 --> 01:46:04,120
Speaker 1: have to do that? Yeah? Kind of One of the

1991
01:46:04,160 --> 01:46:06,920
Speaker 1: highlights of my dad's life is a guy wrote an

1992
01:46:06,960 --> 01:46:09,280
Speaker 1: article about his still hunting method, and you put down

1993
01:46:09,320 --> 01:46:11,280
Speaker 1: how many steps and how long he waits, and my

1994
01:46:11,400 --> 01:46:15,200
Speaker 1: dad wrote a letter to the editor saying that he'd

1995
01:46:15,240 --> 01:46:17,040
Speaker 1: still be forty yards from his truck at the end.

1996
01:46:17,000 --> 01:46:17,759
Speaker 5: Of the day or something.

1997
01:46:19,720 --> 01:46:21,840
Speaker 1: Highlight of his life got to publish.

1998
01:46:23,360 --> 01:46:24,640
Speaker 4: That is hilarious.

1999
01:46:24,920 --> 01:46:28,080
Speaker 6: Yeah, none of the couple hundred lures that you have

2000
01:46:28,439 --> 01:46:31,080
Speaker 6: larry a couple hundred baits that you have. If you

2001
01:46:31,120 --> 01:46:34,320
Speaker 6: had to be like you can only take five across

2002
01:46:34,360 --> 01:46:35,320
Speaker 6: the border to Canada.

2003
01:46:36,000 --> 01:46:37,000
Speaker 5: What would those five be?

2004
01:46:38,439 --> 01:46:41,200
Speaker 2: Four of the five would be bucktails in one surface bait.

2005
01:46:42,479 --> 01:46:44,200
Speaker 1: I got a question for you. You think Chester is an

2006
01:46:44,240 --> 01:46:45,599
Speaker 1: idiot for using those lures.

2007
01:46:45,640 --> 01:46:47,719
Speaker 2: Those are two of the deadlish lures on the planet.

2008
01:46:47,760 --> 01:46:49,000
Speaker 1: Good for Chester, job?

2009
01:46:49,479 --> 01:46:53,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, this thing is catching so many giant fish. The

2010
01:46:53,640 --> 01:46:55,720
Speaker 2: only problem I got with this bait is if you're

2011
01:46:55,720 --> 01:46:59,920
Speaker 2: not properly tooled up. The fish swallow these things practically

2012
01:47:00,040 --> 01:47:01,960
Speaker 2: and they'll get hooked back deep in the gills.

2013
01:47:02,040 --> 01:47:05,080
Speaker 1: They want to eat that thing, Their lips hit it

2014
01:47:05,080 --> 01:47:05,960
Speaker 1: and they think it's real.

2015
01:47:06,080 --> 01:47:07,760
Speaker 2: So you got to have a tool. It's called a

2016
01:47:07,800 --> 01:47:11,680
Speaker 2: hook pick. It'll reach in there and like if they

2017
01:47:11,720 --> 01:47:15,160
Speaker 2: get hook over the gill raker, you can actually lift

2018
01:47:15,160 --> 01:47:17,719
Speaker 2: that hook up, push it backwards a little bit, lift

2019
01:47:17,720 --> 01:47:19,840
Speaker 2: it up and pull it out without ripping the gill

2020
01:47:19,880 --> 01:47:20,479
Speaker 2: out of the fish.

2021
01:47:21,000 --> 01:47:22,599
Speaker 1: How much money got sunk into this lure?

2022
01:47:22,680 --> 01:47:24,080
Speaker 5: Chester? That lure?

2023
01:47:24,600 --> 01:47:25,720
Speaker 3: Uh?

2024
01:47:26,160 --> 01:47:33,720
Speaker 4: I want to say, I can't quite remember. I'd say

2025
01:47:34,120 --> 01:47:35,400
Speaker 4: that's this.

2026
01:47:35,400 --> 01:47:37,760
Speaker 2: This is a Suey was developed in the thirties by

2027
01:47:37,760 --> 01:47:39,880
Speaker 2: a guy named Frank Suey. He caught a musky day

2028
01:47:39,920 --> 01:47:44,519
Speaker 2: for thirty days out of Pelican Lake. The lake owners

2029
01:47:44,560 --> 01:47:46,960
Speaker 2: had a petition to the governor to get him banned

2030
01:47:46,960 --> 01:47:47,679
Speaker 2: from fishing.

2031
01:47:47,760 --> 01:47:52,000
Speaker 8: And back in the day when you'd write the governor,

2032
01:47:53,280 --> 01:47:58,040
Speaker 8: they wanted him to stop because he's going to clean

2033
01:47:58,080 --> 01:47:58,519
Speaker 8: the lake out.

2034
01:47:58,600 --> 01:48:01,320
Speaker 2: Yeah, because you kept every one of them that was

2035
01:48:01,320 --> 01:48:06,920
Speaker 2: in a key. What years did your grandfather fish man?

2036
01:48:07,200 --> 01:48:13,960
Speaker 1: So he died, Get bear with me minute. He died

2037
01:48:14,080 --> 01:48:17,040
Speaker 1: in around eighty four, at eighty.

2038
01:48:18,400 --> 01:48:20,960
Speaker 2: Okay, help me out here.

2039
01:48:21,560 --> 01:48:23,960
Speaker 1: He was not much so by when I was born,

2040
01:48:24,000 --> 01:48:27,559
Speaker 1: when I was a little kid, he was not that active.

2041
01:48:28,320 --> 01:48:31,599
Speaker 1: So I would say fifties and sixties. He's a big muscard.

2042
01:48:31,600 --> 01:48:34,960
Speaker 2: That's everybody kept him and a one hundred thousand a

2043
01:48:35,000 --> 01:48:38,480
Speaker 2: year died and d n R tried like hell to

2044
01:48:38,520 --> 01:48:42,599
Speaker 2: make enough babies just replace them, and fishing was tough

2045
01:48:42,680 --> 01:48:43,040
Speaker 2: enough day.

2046
01:48:43,120 --> 01:48:46,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was from a farm and what is now Naperville, Illinois.

2047
01:48:47,120 --> 01:48:48,960
Speaker 1: She'd never guess you could be from a farm there.

2048
01:48:49,560 --> 01:48:52,840
Speaker 1: It was orchards and stuff. He was from a farm there.

2049
01:48:52,960 --> 01:48:56,000
Speaker 1: And when on when they went on vacations, they would

2050
01:48:56,040 --> 01:49:00,640
Speaker 1: go up into Wisconsin to fish muskiees like that was

2051
01:49:00,680 --> 01:49:01,160
Speaker 1: what he did.

2052
01:49:01,360 --> 01:49:04,439
Speaker 2: I mean, Wisconsin was the muskie mecca of North America

2053
01:49:05,200 --> 01:49:09,080
Speaker 2: for a long time, actually formal muskie fish. He started

2054
01:49:09,080 --> 01:49:12,880
Speaker 2: on the Saint Lawrence River in eighteen eighties in both

2055
01:49:12,960 --> 01:49:18,200
Speaker 2: Quebec and Ontario, New York, and then it graduated inland

2056
01:49:18,240 --> 01:49:23,360
Speaker 2: to Chautauqua Lake, New York, which small body water produces

2057
01:49:23,400 --> 01:49:27,639
Speaker 2: a lot of fish thousands, but they stocked a hell

2058
01:49:27,680 --> 01:49:30,320
Speaker 2: of it. They stuck like thirteen thousand a year there.

2059
01:49:30,360 --> 01:49:30,559
Speaker 5: Two.

2060
01:49:30,840 --> 01:49:32,479
Speaker 1: Yep. You want to know something that chaps my ass,

2061
01:49:32,560 --> 01:49:35,120
Speaker 1: Larry in Wisconsin?

2062
01:49:35,479 --> 01:49:35,880
Speaker 2: What But.

2063
01:49:38,880 --> 01:49:41,280
Speaker 1: In Wisconsin they've been trying to push to get pike

2064
01:49:41,360 --> 01:49:44,200
Speaker 1: spearing through the ice, and you know who blocks it,

2065
01:49:45,400 --> 01:49:49,360
Speaker 1: the musky community. The muskie community feels like an American

2066
01:49:49,400 --> 01:49:54,840
Speaker 1: angler can't distinguish between the northern and a muskie. So

2067
01:49:54,960 --> 01:49:56,840
Speaker 1: the minu, you let them spear pike through the ice,

2068
01:49:56,880 --> 01:50:00,000
Speaker 1: they're gonna start killing muskies. Friend of mine pointing out

2069
01:50:00,040 --> 01:50:03,080
Speaker 1: out you can count on people to tell one kind

2070
01:50:03,080 --> 01:50:05,640
Speaker 1: of duck from another. You can count on them to

2071
01:50:05,680 --> 01:50:08,439
Speaker 1: tell whether a spike antler is three inches or three

2072
01:50:08,439 --> 01:50:11,280
Speaker 1: and a quarter inches. You can count on them to

2073
01:50:11,400 --> 01:50:14,720
Speaker 1: I could go on no, no, no, which I can't

2074
01:50:14,800 --> 01:50:16,439
Speaker 1: count on them to tell a muskie from a pike.

2075
01:50:16,520 --> 01:50:17,439
Speaker 1: What do you think about that?

2076
01:50:18,160 --> 01:50:20,080
Speaker 2: Uh, it's possible.

2077
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:24,839
Speaker 1: Would you support did you stand strong with pike spears?

2078
01:50:25,200 --> 01:50:31,800
Speaker 2: I to stand against any spirit? What about surgeon spir

2079
01:50:31,920 --> 01:50:35,080
Speaker 2: Now I understand him. Like in Michigan you can steal

2080
01:50:35,120 --> 01:50:38,080
Speaker 2: spear muskies in Michigan you can't. Only one a year

2081
01:50:38,160 --> 01:50:41,120
Speaker 2: now used to be carte blanche, but now it's only

2082
01:50:41,120 --> 01:50:41,599
Speaker 2: one a year.

2083
01:50:42,560 --> 01:50:45,040
Speaker 1: But you don't like any through the ice spearing.

2084
01:50:45,280 --> 01:50:47,439
Speaker 2: I don't like any through the ice catching either. Fact.

2085
01:50:49,040 --> 01:50:54,639
Speaker 2: To give you an example where I where I fish

2086
01:50:55,479 --> 01:50:58,479
Speaker 2: to wrap it up? Where I fish on the Saint

2087
01:50:58,560 --> 01:50:59,080
Speaker 2: Lawrence River.

2088
01:50:59,280 --> 01:50:59,519
Speaker 1: Huh.

2089
01:51:00,240 --> 01:51:03,840
Speaker 2: Until this year, the season for muskies didn't close until

2090
01:51:03,840 --> 01:51:08,439
Speaker 2: March thirty. First, well from sometimes mid December at least

2091
01:51:08,600 --> 01:51:11,160
Speaker 2: late December to the end of March. It's froze up.

2092
01:51:11,840 --> 01:51:16,559
Speaker 2: Not a big deal, but you could actually fish for

2093
01:51:16,600 --> 01:51:19,599
Speaker 2: them legitimately with rod and reel until the end of March,

2094
01:51:19,800 --> 01:51:23,760
Speaker 2: which means you're catching an egg laden fom. But the

2095
01:51:23,800 --> 01:51:26,599
Speaker 2: reason that they're cutting it back to December nineteenth will

2096
01:51:26,640 --> 01:51:29,320
Speaker 2: be the date next year is because in the last

2097
01:51:29,400 --> 01:51:31,799
Speaker 2: few years have been killing so many really big muskies

2098
01:51:31,800 --> 01:51:33,000
Speaker 2: through the ice ice fishing.

2099
01:51:33,240 --> 01:51:36,360
Speaker 1: Oh, like, are you ever calling through the ice.

2100
01:51:36,600 --> 01:51:40,839
Speaker 2: No, I only tried once. I'm not an ice fisherman.

2101
01:51:41,400 --> 01:51:44,120
Speaker 4: Last year it stayed Lake State open, so guys were

2102
01:51:44,160 --> 01:51:45,879
Speaker 4: fishing open water into.

2103
01:51:45,680 --> 01:51:47,000
Speaker 2: This opened up early this year.

2104
01:51:47,000 --> 01:51:47,120
Speaker 1: Too.

2105
01:51:47,160 --> 01:51:48,040
Speaker 2: It's crazy.

2106
01:51:48,439 --> 01:51:52,759
Speaker 4: One last question, how big are you on the following

2107
01:51:53,000 --> 01:51:54,639
Speaker 4: moon phases and musky fishing?

2108
01:51:54,760 --> 01:51:56,360
Speaker 2: You know, I kept track of that for years, and

2109
01:51:56,400 --> 01:51:58,439
Speaker 2: I tried to be faithful to them, and I found

2110
01:51:58,520 --> 01:52:01,840
Speaker 2: I catched just as many in between simler periods as

2111
01:52:01,840 --> 01:52:04,320
Speaker 2: I did on them, So I just quit worrying about it. Now.

2112
01:52:04,360 --> 01:52:08,080
Speaker 2: My guide he's religious about we're getting close to a period,

2113
01:52:08,120 --> 01:52:10,519
Speaker 2: we're going to be on a good spot, and sometimes

2114
01:52:10,600 --> 01:52:13,479
Speaker 2: it paid off and sometimes don't. Sometimes we catch big

2115
01:52:13,520 --> 01:52:16,280
Speaker 2: fishings nowhere near a period, so he can believe if

2116
01:52:16,320 --> 01:52:17,240
Speaker 2: he wants. I don't believe.

2117
01:52:17,560 --> 01:52:20,759
Speaker 4: And what we're talking about there is like moon rise

2118
01:52:20,920 --> 01:52:23,160
Speaker 4: as soon as the moon's coming out, moon set or

2119
01:52:23,240 --> 01:52:25,800
Speaker 4: moon moon overhead are like.

2120
01:52:26,400 --> 01:52:29,920
Speaker 2: My opinion is that because people believe that that's when

2121
01:52:29,920 --> 01:52:34,200
Speaker 2: they're fishing. They're not off periods, they're not off onny

2122
01:52:34,320 --> 01:52:37,760
Speaker 2: out there on the off hours, but when it's moon

2123
01:52:37,840 --> 01:52:40,280
Speaker 2: up time or moonset and time, they're out there.

2124
01:52:40,360 --> 01:52:42,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like we're getting them on shar troops. What

2125
01:52:42,920 --> 01:52:46,519
Speaker 1: you been using for a long time?

2126
01:52:46,640 --> 01:52:50,240
Speaker 2: Black bucktail with a silver spinner blade, that was they're

2127
01:52:50,280 --> 01:52:54,840
Speaker 2: probably up until say nineteen seventy. There's probably more musk

2128
01:52:54,880 --> 01:52:58,599
Speaker 2: he's caught on that one color combination bucktail then all

2129
01:52:58,600 --> 01:53:01,800
Speaker 2: the other musky baites put together there. That's just because

2130
01:53:01,800 --> 01:53:03,400
Speaker 2: that's whatever Foddy was throwing.

2131
01:53:03,920 --> 01:53:08,000
Speaker 1: H guess what I got know one for you? Do

2132
01:53:08,000 --> 01:53:10,880
Speaker 1: you get excited about catching a tiger muskie? You know?

2133
01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:14,040
Speaker 2: I for years said I'll killing mount the first tiger

2134
01:53:14,160 --> 01:53:16,120
Speaker 2: musky ever catch. It took me quite a few years,

2135
01:53:16,200 --> 01:53:17,760
Speaker 2: and I caught it out of a place. I didn't

2136
01:53:17,760 --> 01:53:19,680
Speaker 2: ever dream to catch a tiger musky. But it's on

2137
01:53:19,760 --> 01:53:23,479
Speaker 2: my wall. But I love tigers, in fact, almost more

2138
01:53:23,520 --> 01:53:26,439
Speaker 2: than muskies. No way, I love tigers.

2139
01:53:26,479 --> 01:53:30,439
Speaker 1: Did you fry it up? Yeah?

2140
01:53:30,880 --> 01:53:32,800
Speaker 2: But I've caught bigger one sincing and put them.

2141
01:53:32,760 --> 01:53:39,040
Speaker 1: Back all right, Larry, thanks for coming on, man, I

2142
01:53:39,080 --> 01:53:41,200
Speaker 1: love it. People buy your book.

2143
01:53:41,200 --> 01:53:43,120
Speaker 2: Well, I don't care if they do. They don't. They

2144
01:53:43,120 --> 01:53:44,360
Speaker 2: don't want to know what's going on.

2145
01:53:46,439 --> 01:53:49,840
Speaker 6: It's called look a gift horse in the mouth.

2146
01:53:50,160 --> 01:53:53,200
Speaker 1: If you want to know what's going on, If you

2147
01:53:53,240 --> 01:53:55,360
Speaker 1: want to know everything you want everyone to know about

2148
01:53:55,479 --> 01:54:00,880
Speaker 1: past world record muskies. Larry, Why why is an asterisk

2149
01:54:01,040 --> 01:54:01,719
Speaker 1: in the title?

2150
01:54:02,560 --> 01:54:05,160
Speaker 2: Where's the that's not an asterisk. That's an explanation of

2151
01:54:05,200 --> 01:54:06,240
Speaker 2: the word compendium.

2152
01:54:06,920 --> 01:54:10,320
Speaker 6: Oh yeah, And then you go to where go down below.

2153
01:54:10,120 --> 01:54:11,720
Speaker 2: And explains what a compendium is?

2154
01:54:11,760 --> 01:54:12,080
Speaker 5: Okay?

2155
01:54:12,160 --> 01:54:17,480
Speaker 1: So a Compendium of Musky Angling History Revised, Updated and expanded,

2156
01:54:17,520 --> 01:54:22,040
Speaker 1: third edition, Volume one, Muscle Lunge World Records, the History

2157
01:54:22,880 --> 01:54:23,599
Speaker 1: the truth.

2158
01:54:23,840 --> 01:54:25,240
Speaker 2: There's the keyword right there.

2159
01:54:26,400 --> 01:54:34,160
Speaker 1: Circa nineteen eighteen seventy seventy, two thousand and six. A compendium,

2160
01:54:34,160 --> 01:54:36,680
Speaker 1: If you want what the hell that means? A compendium

2161
01:54:36,720 --> 01:54:41,240
Speaker 1: gathers together and presents, in a concise or outlined form,

2162
01:54:41,600 --> 01:54:46,640
Speaker 1: all the essential facts and details of a subject. Bingle

2163
01:54:47,320 --> 01:54:48,400
Speaker 1: by Larry Ramsell.

2164
01:54:49,960 --> 01:54:52,640
Speaker 6: You may want to get volume two. There's a real

2165
01:54:52,720 --> 01:54:54,840
Speaker 6: important quote here at the back. You know, on the

2166
01:54:54,880 --> 01:54:58,440
Speaker 6: back of books how they put quotes from other authors

2167
01:54:58,640 --> 01:55:03,640
Speaker 6: or historians are scientific journals and stuff. This one at

2168
01:55:03,640 --> 01:55:08,400
Speaker 6: the bottom says, who's that buy me my best work?

2169
01:55:08,480 --> 01:55:13,080
Speaker 9: Yeah, Larry, I'm gonna put an asterisk next to this,

2170
01:55:13,120 --> 01:55:15,000
Speaker 9: and you're gonna there's gonna be two asterisks next to

2171
01:55:15,080 --> 01:55:17,320
Speaker 9: your name and you're gonna go down to that second

2172
01:55:17,400 --> 01:55:21,640
Speaker 9: asterisk and it's gonna say a man obsessed pretty much.

2173
01:55:21,720 --> 01:55:25,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, Larry Ramsey, that's great.

2174
01:55:25,680 --> 01:55:27,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, man pretty much.

2175
01:55:26,920 --> 01:55:29,160
Speaker 1: Heavy girlfriend, give me a ring. Next memorial, Man, we're

2176
01:55:29,160 --> 01:55:32,280
Speaker 1: gonna mop up on spawning bluegills. Okay, I know about

2177
01:55:32,320 --> 01:55:36,680
Speaker 1: a hot bobber bite that we just hit it pretty good.

2178
01:55:36,800 --> 01:55:40,360
Speaker 2: She has bowed with muskies. I had to do most

2179
01:55:40,360 --> 01:55:40,600
Speaker 2: of the.

2180
01:55:40,560 --> 01:55:44,960
Speaker 1: Work, all right, Larry, thanks for coming on. Good luck

2181
01:55:44,960 --> 01:55:48,680
Speaker 1: with your continued good luck with your book. And if

2182
01:55:48,720 --> 01:55:51,840
Speaker 1: I catch a world record muskie while you're still on Earth,

2183
01:55:51,880 --> 01:55:53,040
Speaker 1: I'm just gonna keep my mouth.

2184
01:55:52,840 --> 01:55:56,320
Speaker 2: Shut or call me before you speak.

2185
01:55:58,920 --> 01:55:59,920
Speaker 1: Thank you very much, Larry.

2186
01:56:00,080 --> 01:56:00,720
Speaker 2: Okay, thank you.

2187
01:56:00,760 --> 01:56:01,240
Speaker 5: Next word.

2188
01:56:06,320 --> 01:56:11,800
Speaker 7: I love fishing loures. I love to cast them while

2189
01:56:11,960 --> 01:56:16,560
Speaker 7: I'm drinking a course for while on the rocks, I'm

2190
01:56:16,640 --> 01:56:28,080
Speaker 7: drinking adures. Clever, little mechanic, cold words of odd. I

2191
01:56:28,160 --> 01:56:30,280
Speaker 7: love fishing lures.

2192
01:56:30,360 --> 01:56:32,080
Speaker 2: Got a hot tackle.

2193
01:56:31,720 --> 01:56:36,200
Speaker 1: Box of them, with't want any fewer. I bet I'm

2194
01:56:36,240 --> 01:56:37,160
Speaker 1: a better.

2195
01:56:36,920 --> 01:56:38,680
Speaker 6: Fisher man than you are.

2196
01:56:39,240 --> 01:56:43,240
Speaker 7: When I'm at this morning good store, I love loading.

2197
01:56:42,800 --> 01:56:47,400
Speaker 2: Up my car.

2198
01:56:47,880 --> 01:56:53,320
Speaker 7: Some are striped summer pall and dotted big treble hook.

2199
01:56:53,400 --> 01:56:58,040
Speaker 7: Sometimes your line gets noted. Some dive deep, some skinter

2200
01:56:58,160 --> 01:56:59,680
Speaker 7: on top of the water.

2201
01:57:00,400 --> 01:57:04,120
Speaker 1: Look at that big bass. I'm glad that I caught her.

2202
01:57:04,600 --> 01:57:10,400
Speaker 7: Some are monkeys, Some are articulated, some are simple, some

2203
01:57:10,640 --> 01:57:16,480
Speaker 7: are complicated. Some of them spin, some of them rattle.

2204
01:57:17,120 --> 01:57:20,720
Speaker 10: All kinds of exotic cops as your voting paddle.

2205
01:57:30,320 --> 01:57:32,919
Speaker 7: I love fishing, lose.

2206
01:57:33,600 --> 01:57:35,640
Speaker 3: Without them in my life.

2207
01:57:35,520 --> 01:57:36,960
Speaker 1: I would be poor.

2208
01:57:37,640 --> 01:57:40,720
Speaker 7: Some are so effective I think I could catch fishing

2209
01:57:40,880 --> 01:57:47,760
Speaker 7: a sewer. Lots of well designed little hats.

2210
01:57:49,320 --> 01:57:57,000
Speaker 11: Oh love fishing. LuSE something of joining that professional bass

2211
01:57:57,080 --> 01:58:02,160
Speaker 11: fishing tour. Some hundred year old lax, others are newer.

2212
01:58:02,800 --> 01:58:05,640
Speaker 11: I love the way.

2213
01:58:05,640 --> 01:58:06,520
Speaker 2: They dive in.

2214
01:58:11,360 --> 01:58:16,360
Speaker 7: Some are completed, others are spotted. You think I'm missing

2215
01:58:16,400 --> 01:58:20,720
Speaker 7: a lure, I've probably got it. Some going back and

2216
01:58:20,760 --> 01:58:23,160
Speaker 7: forth like a tea or totter.

2217
01:58:23,680 --> 01:58:25,240
Speaker 6: My dog brings me good luck.

2218
01:58:25,720 --> 01:58:27,520
Speaker 1: I'm glad I brought her.

2219
01:58:28,040 --> 01:58:32,520
Speaker 7: Some are pretty light, others ardwaighted. I want to keep

2220
01:58:32,640 --> 01:58:40,040
Speaker 7: casting fishing mores on upbeited fish arlurking in the shadows.

2221
01:58:40,560 --> 01:59:29,880
Speaker 10: Gotta lure the mount before my mind gets at Oh.

2222
01:59:30,840 --> 01:59:33,280
Speaker 7: I love fishing.

2223
01:59:33,600 --> 01:59:34,680
Speaker 1: Loes