WEBVTT - The Widemans : Part 2 0:00:08.440 --> 0:00:10.159 Place your left hand on the bay of Bible and 0:00:10.480 --> 0:00:14.280 raise your right hand and repeat after me. I solemnly 0:00:14.360 --> 0:00:19.320 swear the jury trying to get defended. The process continued 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.840 this weekend in Ferguson and around the country, resisting you. 0:00:23.160 --> 0:00:25.880 It makes no sense. If it doesn't fit, you must 0:00:25.880 --> 0:00:29.360 equit judge. You are the last line of reason in 0:00:29.400 --> 0:00:32.760 this case. Every one of us took out all the 0:00:33.040 --> 0:00:37.960 office and we're scorn to uphold the Constitution. From Tenderfoot 0:00:38.000 --> 0:00:42.960 TV in Atlanta, this is sworn. I'm your host, Philip 0:00:43.000 --> 0:00:46.239 Holloway in Turner County. If somebody's got a problem with you, 0:00:46.280 --> 0:00:48.040 they're probably gonna go up and say it to you, 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:51.760 but it's not necessarily going to lead them to kill 0:00:51.800 --> 0:01:00.120 an entire family and burn their house down m M. 0:01:01.760 --> 0:01:04.720 In the last episode, I spoke to John Dawes, a 0:01:04.840 --> 0:01:07.640 cold case expert, who felt that greed and money are 0:01:07.680 --> 0:01:12.679 almost always the motivation for murder. Also, the majority of 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:16.320 murders are committed by someone or a group who knows 0:01:16.440 --> 0:01:19.720 the victims personally. He said that if this were his 0:01:19.840 --> 0:01:22.800 case in his hands, he would typically start with the 0:01:22.880 --> 0:01:27.240 family who had something to gain here. Also, because Melissa 0:01:27.360 --> 0:01:30.080 was eight months pregnant and nearly ready to give birth. 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:32.840 He said he would definitely look into the father of 0:01:32.880 --> 0:01:36.280 our child. In just a minute, Meredith goes to talk 0:01:36.319 --> 0:01:40.360 to Ben Baker at the Wiregrass newspaper in Ashburn. But 0:01:40.440 --> 0:01:43.640 before we get to that, there was a strange development 0:01:43.640 --> 0:01:47.360 in the case. Some very sensitive information came our way. 0:01:47.760 --> 0:01:50.360 We cannot share all of it with you, but we'd 0:01:50.360 --> 0:02:14.880 like to play you a short clip. M H. Why 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:20.600 am I interested in? What are the alibi that night 0:02:20.800 --> 0:02:25.200 for the prime suspect in the murder case? Do you 0:02:25.240 --> 0:02:29.000 understand what I'm telling you? They were his only alibi. 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:34.639 Early on in our investigation, we received this phone call 0:02:34.720 --> 0:02:38.720 about the Wideman murders. By all accounts, it seemed credible. 0:02:40.760 --> 0:02:42.600 The source was close enough to the case that the 0:02:42.639 --> 0:02:45.360 story made sense, but disconnected enough that there was no 0:02:45.400 --> 0:02:48.200 reason for the individual to lie. We'll get back to 0:02:48.240 --> 0:02:51.120 this later, but for now, let's go to the Wiregrass. 0:02:54.400 --> 0:02:57.840 It was firing the festival weekend. I don't remember the year, 0:02:59.120 --> 0:03:01.600 but that was, of course the whole talk of the town. 0:03:01.600 --> 0:03:03.560 The next morning, That's when I found out about it. 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.120 I was said the Wideman's were murdered and the house 0:03:06.160 --> 0:03:10.400 they were in was burned down. My impression was I 0:03:10.400 --> 0:03:12.359 didn't have one. I was just too numb to think 0:03:12.400 --> 0:03:15.040 about it. I was too stunned. This has been Baker. 0:03:15.680 --> 0:03:18.040 He's been the editor of the newspaper for twenty three years. 0:03:18.200 --> 0:03:21.840 When do you think it's set in gradually over the 0:03:21.880 --> 0:03:24.519 course of the next few months. It took a while 0:03:24.960 --> 0:03:28.520 for me to realize that Tommy Joe was gone, the 0:03:28.560 --> 0:03:30.920 other ones were gone. I was more of a friend 0:03:30.919 --> 0:03:34.160 to Tommy Joe than his daughter and his wife. And 0:03:34.880 --> 0:03:39.400 it was firing festival weekend, and I'm the general runaround 0:03:39.400 --> 0:03:41.280 guy at the festival. Something he needs to do it, 0:03:41.280 --> 0:03:43.760 and they holler at me to do it. So I 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.520 really didn't have time to process it until the week 0:03:46.560 --> 0:03:49.480 after the festival, because when we got done with the festival, 0:03:50.280 --> 0:03:53.120 then I had to both cover the festival and cover 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:56.600 the Wideman case for the newspaper. All my energies at 0:03:56.600 --> 0:03:59.200 that time were directed to getting everything into the paper. 0:03:59.680 --> 0:04:01.800 And you've been a reporter for as long as I have, 0:04:01.920 --> 0:04:05.320 you learned to distance yourself emotionally from the subject at 0:04:05.360 --> 0:04:07.200 hand because you've got a job to do. You just 0:04:07.240 --> 0:04:09.640 get it put out and then the next week, Yeah, 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.360 that's when he hit me. He was gone, You don't. 0:04:12.320 --> 0:04:14.480 Ben's office is in the center of Ashbourne, but the 0:04:14.520 --> 0:04:17.960 streets outside aren't exactly bustling. As we said, it's a 0:04:18.040 --> 0:04:21.200 very quiet place. There's an eclectic mix of stuffed animal 0:04:21.240 --> 0:04:24.000 heads mounted on the walls and services. Inside of his office. 0:04:24.360 --> 0:04:27.520 There's also stacks and stacks of papers, periodicals and books. 0:04:28.160 --> 0:04:29.719 You can tell Ben's been in the business for a 0:04:29.720 --> 0:04:33.760 long time. When you're in my line of business, you 0:04:33.839 --> 0:04:37.719 need to know things that don't get published, and people 0:04:37.800 --> 0:04:40.240 tell me things. I'm the newspaper editor. I'm also a 0:04:40.279 --> 0:04:43.880 minister here and for some reason, people just tell me stuff. 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:47.720 And depending on how and why and when they tell me, 0:04:47.800 --> 0:04:50.279 it can be confidential or it can be passed along. 0:04:50.839 --> 0:04:53.520 And as I tell people, if you tell me something 0:04:53.560 --> 0:04:56.719 as a reporter and it's important, of eventually it's going 0:04:56.760 --> 0:04:59.520 in the paper, but it does have to be properly timed. 0:05:00.480 --> 0:05:03.800 So I need to know things so that I can 0:05:04.200 --> 0:05:07.200 look for stuff and keep some things out of the 0:05:07.240 --> 0:05:09.559 paper that simply don't need to be there. Some people 0:05:09.560 --> 0:05:12.640 are gonna say, we've got a right to know this, Yeah, 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:17.360 you do. Is your right to know outweighing the good 0:05:17.440 --> 0:05:20.400 to the community. In my eyes, been a somewhat of 0:05:20.400 --> 0:05:23.240 an expert on Turner County. Being the editor of the 0:05:23.240 --> 0:05:25.720 local newspaper, it's his business to know what's going on, 0:05:25.920 --> 0:05:28.840 and he's clearly very well connected. I asked him who 0:05:28.880 --> 0:05:31.400 he had talked to in regards the Wideman case. Talked 0:05:31.480 --> 0:05:33.279 to the e M S Director. I talked to the 0:05:33.279 --> 0:05:37.640 fire chief in the Sheriff's department. Was there anyone that 0:05:37.839 --> 0:05:40.719 wasn't very willing to talk or they shared with me 0:05:40.800 --> 0:05:43.200 on the record everything they could talk about at the time. 0:05:44.120 --> 0:05:48.719 And since then there have been many more conversations, many 0:05:48.760 --> 0:05:53.320 more conversations as in information that wasn't disclosed before or 0:05:53.400 --> 0:05:56.320 wasn't known before. Well, there's been some stuff that wasn't 0:05:56.360 --> 0:05:58.960 known that day that were talked about, and there's been 0:05:59.040 --> 0:06:02.320 some stuff that I mean, why do you need to 0:06:02.360 --> 0:06:05.719 know the caliber gun they were killed with? One? I 0:06:05.760 --> 0:06:08.160 asked Ben about the general public feelings in Turner County 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:11.279 regarding the Wideman case. There are some people that swear 0:06:11.480 --> 0:06:13.880 they know who did it. You ask them, they'll tell 0:06:13.880 --> 0:06:16.080 you the individual's name. Well, how do you know this? 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:19.200 He's just that kind of a person. You've got some evidence, 0:06:19.279 --> 0:06:22.159 let's talk about it. You said his car was parked there, 0:06:22.400 --> 0:06:25.919 or his truck, or his motorcycle or his bicycle was 0:06:26.000 --> 0:06:28.400 parked there that night. Okay, we got something to work with. 0:06:28.520 --> 0:06:30.919 You say he was riding around that night over in 0:06:30.960 --> 0:06:34.240 that neighborhood. A little bit more tenuous. You just say 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:36.680 you just simply know, because he's that kind of a person. No, 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.080 you don't know that. Ben's right about this. Innocent until 0:06:40.120 --> 0:06:43.240 proven guilty, and without evidence, people can speculate all day 0:06:43.440 --> 0:06:47.680 bodies and then they were shot, and there was some 0:06:47.720 --> 0:06:50.239 talk about tire tracks, but there was also the issue 0:06:50.279 --> 0:06:52.440 of all the public safety there, so they weren't sure 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:55.640 because the tire tracks, you're gonna be any good. Where 0:06:55.680 --> 0:06:58.080 were the tire tracks there in the yard, up the 0:06:58.160 --> 0:07:00.880 driveway or just think in the day is right there 0:07:00.880 --> 0:07:04.440 at the property. I am not certain if there was 0:07:04.480 --> 0:07:07.400 a motive or not. Just beyond Hey, here's the house. 0:07:07.480 --> 0:07:09.880 Let's go see who's here and rob women kill him. 0:07:10.040 --> 0:07:12.679 You're gonna say that just simply doesn't happen. Oh yeah, 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.560 hell it does too. You talked to the sheriff's department, 0:07:15.560 --> 0:07:18.600 in the police department, we have smash and grab robberies frequently. 0:07:19.040 --> 0:07:22.200 Because we're on the interstate. This might sound plausible, but 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.840 to be candid, there's no evidence that this was a burglary. 0:07:25.000 --> 0:07:27.360 Local law enforcement and never suggested that they had any 0:07:27.360 --> 0:07:29.920 reason to believe that it was. We had a gentleman 0:07:30.400 --> 0:07:34.440 who went missing. They found his car. He popped up 0:07:34.440 --> 0:07:38.040 in a pond a week later. That's still a mysterious death. 0:07:38.680 --> 0:07:40.600 We asked about what the chief of fire had personally 0:07:40.640 --> 0:07:43.560 reported to pen what he described to you about the scene. 0:07:45.480 --> 0:07:47.160 He said it was bad and the house was burned 0:07:47.200 --> 0:07:50.640 completely down by the time they got there, was fully engulfed. 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.120 You look around the room in here. You see my 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:55.960 fellow dear, You see my elk on the other side. 0:07:56.000 --> 0:07:58.520 I got a bison. I got two little bucks. Over there, 0:07:58.520 --> 0:08:02.520 I kill one shot. There's the buffalo skull. I know 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.680 people that can come walk through that door right there 0:08:04.720 --> 0:08:07.080 and look at this and have a panic attack and 0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:10.240 pass out on the floor. You're not prepared to see 0:08:10.280 --> 0:08:12.040 this kind of scene. I don't care who you are. 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.440 We've got firemen who were in the military, who were 0:08:16.440 --> 0:08:19.720 in Vietnam, who were in other places, and they've seen 0:08:19.720 --> 0:08:23.440 bodies blowing the pieces you're not prepared to see that 0:08:23.520 --> 0:08:26.840 kind of thing. I don't care who you are unless 0:08:26.880 --> 0:08:31.560 you're a complete psychopath and you have no human emotion, 0:08:32.120 --> 0:08:35.640 emotional connection. You just don't have any empathy whatsoever. Then 0:08:35.640 --> 0:08:38.240 you look on it every day and say, huh, I'm 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:40.679 ready for a ham sandwich for lunch. I think we 0:08:40.760 --> 0:08:42.720 asked Ben who owned the property now that the house 0:08:42.720 --> 0:08:44.959 had been burned down. He told us that to his 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:47.360 latest knowledge, it still belonged to the remaining members of 0:08:47.360 --> 0:08:50.240 the Widman family. So we asked who that was. Charles 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:53.280 Henry is here and his sons ship I think they both. 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:56.800 Charles Henry and No lives in Rebecca with Diane, and 0:08:56.840 --> 0:09:00.200 I think Chip lives in Rebecca or Fitzgerald all. Are 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:04.280 they still working in the community Chips an insurance salesman. 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.120 Charles Henry. I don't know if he's still working or 0:09:07.160 --> 0:09:09.760 not an insurance or if he retired. I don't remember 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.120 about how many times do you think he wrote about 0:09:12.280 --> 0:09:16.080 the Wideman case? Up to about a dozen? I believe 0:09:17.000 --> 0:09:20.160 when's the last time you personally wrote something. It's been 0:09:20.200 --> 0:09:23.720 several years since I've written about it. Christie used to 0:09:23.760 --> 0:09:25.480 work for the those Settle Star would write about it 0:09:25.520 --> 0:09:27.720 every year on the anniversary. But she was related to 0:09:27.760 --> 0:09:30.560 the family. So unless you're connected to it, you never 0:09:30.640 --> 0:09:33.600 think about it. But there's nothing else to report. What 0:09:33.640 --> 0:09:36.760 are you gonna say, well, it's still under an investigation. Yeah, 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.319 we know that. All that's gonna happen by me reporting 0:09:40.360 --> 0:09:43.800 on it now is remind the remaining family that this 0:09:43.880 --> 0:09:47.160 is unsolved and it's going to renew the pain they have. 0:09:48.200 --> 0:09:49.760 Is the public's right to know that it is not 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:54.680 solved more important than not making that family hurt anymore. 0:09:54.840 --> 0:09:57.840 It ain't been solved the minute he gets solved, the 0:09:57.840 --> 0:10:00.679 minute they arrest somebody we're talking about on her headline. 0:10:00.679 --> 0:10:02.719 In that way, it's newspaper and breaking news. I may 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:05.800 put out a special edition. Sure, its department has got 0:10:05.800 --> 0:10:07.839 a pretty high and police department got a pretty high 0:10:07.920 --> 0:10:12.400 rate on solving cases. But as our farmer, Sheriff Wesley 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:16.120 five said, a law enforcement man ain't no better than 0:10:16.160 --> 0:10:19.280 the information he gets. The only way this thing is 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:21.000 going to be solved, to my way of thinking, is 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.000 if somebody comes forward and says, hey, I know about this, 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:27.400 here's some information, or somebody's on their deathbed and they 0:10:27.440 --> 0:10:33.080 confess we've exhausted the physical evidence. Fire is an awesome 0:10:33.120 --> 0:10:37.240 way to cover your tracks. I had qualms about even 0:10:37.240 --> 0:10:40.800 talking to you guys for this podcast thing, but I 0:10:40.880 --> 0:10:46.320 have to weigh again respect for the families versus they're 0:10:46.360 --> 0:10:49.240 wanting to get some closure on this. Y'all reach a 0:10:49.400 --> 0:10:52.679 much different audience than I do. I can write about 0:10:52.679 --> 0:10:55.760 this freaking Wideman case every week for the rest of 0:10:55.760 --> 0:10:58.240 my life if it's not solved, and it's gonna be 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:01.480 going to the same people. Y'all have a very different 0:11:01.520 --> 0:11:05.480 audience than me. You might can reach somebody I can't. 0:11:05.920 --> 0:11:09.200 That's why I'm even talking to you today, because you 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:12.120 might can get somebody who knows something. If I thought 0:11:12.160 --> 0:11:18.000 you couldn't, I said, I say, you can't talk to you. 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:21.360 You got four people dead. We need some closure, hair, folks. 0:11:21.360 --> 0:11:24.720 Somebody needs to be held accountable for this. The person 0:11:24.760 --> 0:11:26.839 who did this keeps her mouth shut and takes it 0:11:26.920 --> 0:11:30.400 to the grave, never be solved in this life. Person 0:11:30.440 --> 0:11:47.320 who did it talks about it sold of course. In 0:11:47.360 --> 0:11:50.440 addition to the local newspaper, the case caught the eye 0:11:50.640 --> 0:11:54.800 of larger media outlets such as local television stations. Even 0:11:54.800 --> 0:11:57.840 though this was a small town crime. It really was 0:11:58.240 --> 0:12:02.640 a bone chilling trip homicide, and so it got coverage. 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:07.240 As it turns out, Rebecca is not really far from Albany, Georgia. Albany, 0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:10.200 Georgia has a larger media market and it includes a 0:12:10.240 --> 0:12:13.959 television station known as w A LB TV. I've got 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:16.760 a friend w A l B KD. Fowler is an 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:19.920 anchor and reporter, and as it turns out, my friend 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.719 Cade has covered the Wideman case very closely and has 0:12:23.760 --> 0:12:29.760 reported on it many times. I was actually looking on 0:12:29.880 --> 0:12:32.960 the g B i's website and they had a list 0:12:33.040 --> 0:12:36.000 of cold cases on there, and uh, scrolling through and 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:38.839 and on there it will list the location where the 0:12:38.880 --> 0:12:42.960 crime occurred. And I saw Rebecca pop up and I said, Rebecca, 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:46.199 Rebecca that so that's in that's in Turner County. And 0:12:47.240 --> 0:12:50.040 this was like in twenty twelve, I believe when I 0:12:50.120 --> 0:12:55.199 when I did this story U and I was like, 0:12:55.559 --> 0:12:58.079 how did I not know about this? And it has 0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.680 sort of, you know, not hit my radar. I guess 0:13:01.720 --> 0:13:02.920 I just didn't know about it, and I heard a 0:13:02.960 --> 0:13:04.839 lot of talk about it, and so that's when I 0:13:04.880 --> 0:13:07.360 started looking into and started making some phone calls and 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:09.319 try to, you know, pick back up on it and 0:13:09.360 --> 0:13:11.360 see if there was any new leads we could track 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:13.240 down on on our end in terms of trying to 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.600 get some people to talk. My name is Kate Fowler. 0:13:15.920 --> 0:13:18.920 I'm a reporter an anchor at w A l B. 0:13:19.120 --> 0:13:22.079 I started there and in two thousand and seven covered 0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.599 a lot of crime and uh, you know, specialized in 0:13:24.679 --> 0:13:27.439 reporting on on cold cases and stuff because there's a 0:13:27.520 --> 0:13:30.400 number of them in South Georgia. Is there still a 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.960 lot of public interest this what fifteen years later? Actually 0:13:35.440 --> 0:13:38.200 there is. And you know, I'll give I'll give credit 0:13:38.280 --> 0:13:41.760 there too to the Sheriff Andy Hester. I mean he is. 0:13:42.679 --> 0:13:44.800 He has kept this out in the in the public's eye, 0:13:45.200 --> 0:13:48.480 you know, more so than than anyone else that's served 0:13:48.520 --> 0:13:51.520 in that office. And I think there's been since this happened. 0:13:51.559 --> 0:13:55.200 There were two sheriffs in office prior to Sheriff Hester. 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:58.760 He's made a couple of sell a couple of press 0:13:58.800 --> 0:14:02.480 conferences just in the past year or so asking for 0:14:02.600 --> 0:14:06.600 more tips on this case. You have three people who 0:14:06.640 --> 0:14:09.559 are dead. You know, by all accounts, these were just 0:14:09.679 --> 0:14:12.280 people who were you know, good small town folks who 0:14:12.320 --> 0:14:14.920 minded their own business. They didn't deserve to die. I 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:16.840 mean this young lady, she was pregnant at the time. 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:20.760 So basically you have four, four lives essentially, you know, 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:24.480 that were lost in this case, and that they shouldn't 0:14:24.480 --> 0:14:28.560 be forgotten. So what do we know publicly? If you 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.000 can summarize that and give us background on the case 0:14:32.120 --> 0:14:34.200 and what we do know, and then what we don't 0:14:34.280 --> 0:14:37.440 know and what we still need to know. Rebecca, you know, 0:14:37.520 --> 0:14:40.160 it's a small town, probably only a few hundred people 0:14:40.240 --> 0:14:44.040 that lived there, squiet people keeping themselves in this house 0:14:44.120 --> 0:14:47.480 where the wide Emans live was off of Highway Win twelve, 0:14:47.960 --> 0:14:50.000 and it's pretty much one of those locations where you 0:14:50.600 --> 0:14:52.960 you gotta be going through it to go through it. 0:14:53.040 --> 0:14:56.160 You know, it's just out there in farmland. And so 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:58.960 there was a truck driver that was driving down the 0:14:59.000 --> 0:15:00.680 road in the middle of the night. He ends up seeing, 0:15:00.960 --> 0:15:02.640 you know, flames coming off the side of the road, 0:15:02.680 --> 0:15:05.120 calls an on one one. They respond to it. It's 0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:07.960 a it's a house fire. So their homes engulfed in 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.200 flames and they finally, you know, put out the fire 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.520 and then you know, when the firefighters are going through 0:15:12.520 --> 0:15:14.800 and they're digging through the ashes, they realized that, you know, 0:15:14.840 --> 0:15:16.760 they're not dealing with just a you know, a house 0:15:16.800 --> 0:15:19.880 fire here, They're dealing with the homicide. They found all 0:15:20.000 --> 0:15:26.160 three victims inside Tommy, Joe, Deborah, Melissa, and very soon 0:15:26.240 --> 0:15:29.280 after determined that they had been shot to them, and 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.160 then someone torched the house to destroy the evidence. Did 0:15:33.200 --> 0:15:36.960 they find evidence of any accelerate I've asked that question. 0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.880 I don't think they really went into detail about what 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.560 was actually used to start the fire. I think that's 0:15:43.560 --> 0:15:46.320 probably something that there they're going to keep to themselves, 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:48.960 at least, I know I asked that question, but you know, 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:50.680 it's been a few years, but I don't think that 0:15:50.800 --> 0:15:55.000 they specifically explained what was used to start the fire. 0:15:56.560 --> 0:16:00.240 What else have they kept to themselves? I don't know. 0:16:00.520 --> 0:16:02.680 I mean, at this point, you know, I'm not sure 0:16:02.720 --> 0:16:06.000 they've been you know, fairly open, you know about getting 0:16:06.080 --> 0:16:08.720 some information out. I mean, we do know that they 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:11.240 were all, you know, executed there in the home, that 0:16:11.320 --> 0:16:14.080 they were shot, and they have told us that much. 0:16:14.760 --> 0:16:16.760 And the other thing that they didn't and I will 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:19.800 say this is, you know, despite the fact that so 0:16:20.000 --> 0:16:23.080 much was destroyed in that fire, there was really no 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:27.240 evidence to suggest that anything was taken from the home. 0:16:27.640 --> 0:16:30.120 I think they were able to gather enough evidence to determined, 0:16:30.160 --> 0:16:33.800 you know, this wasn't probably just some random home invasion. 0:16:34.560 --> 0:16:37.320 Was there any neighbors nearby that might have seen something? 0:16:37.720 --> 0:16:39.200 Not that I know. I mean I think this house 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:42.080 was was really just kind of off the road. I mean, 0:16:42.160 --> 0:16:44.920 you you know South Georgia well filled. I mean you've 0:16:44.920 --> 0:16:47.160 you've been through there. You drive them along those country 0:16:47.240 --> 0:16:49.960 roads and Highway went twelve, you know, going through Turner 0:16:50.000 --> 0:16:51.680 Counties about his country as it gets, I mean you 0:16:51.760 --> 0:16:55.480 go farmland, farmland, trees, and then occasionally you see a 0:16:55.560 --> 0:16:57.720 house off to the side and the house, of course 0:16:57.800 --> 0:16:59.400 you know it was destroyed, has been raised since then, 0:16:59.480 --> 0:17:02.160 there's nothing there, but not a lot of neighbors. I mean, 0:17:02.200 --> 0:17:05.160 I think you had to actually go up a driveway 0:17:05.200 --> 0:17:08.879 to get there. The big question that everyone is asking is, uh, 0:17:09.320 --> 0:17:12.760 whether they think that it was someone local that did this. 0:17:12.920 --> 0:17:15.800 Isn't someone in the community. Is it's someone who you 0:17:15.840 --> 0:17:18.399 know knew the family? Tommy Joe he was the he 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:22.560 was the tax assessor in Turner County, and Deborah owned 0:17:22.760 --> 0:17:26.480 a bridle shot in Ashbourne. So these are people that 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:29.639 you know, we're you know, fairly well known and fairly 0:17:29.720 --> 0:17:31.679 well liked in the community. To my knowledge, they had 0:17:31.760 --> 0:17:34.200 they had no enemies and and I mean a tax 0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.000 assessor is probably not gonna win a popularity contest, you 0:17:37.040 --> 0:17:39.600 know when it comes to you know, elected officials or 0:17:39.640 --> 0:17:42.520 county officials or whatnot. But no one that I that 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:44.760 I've talked to, you know, over the years of just 0:17:44.960 --> 0:17:47.600 talking to people back and forth and even covering this story, 0:17:47.800 --> 0:17:50.080 everyone said, you know, he was he was a good guy. 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:55.680 I honestly believe that he didn't have any enemies. And 0:17:56.359 --> 0:17:59.160 even so in Turner County, if somebody's got a problem 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:00.840 with either, they're probably going to go up and say 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:03.640 it to you, but it's not necessarily going to lead 0:18:03.720 --> 0:18:06.640 them to kill an entire family and burn their house down. 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.879 When's the last time you spoke to Sheriff Fester about 0:18:10.960 --> 0:18:13.840 this case? I talked to Sheriff Ester, you know, a 0:18:13.880 --> 0:18:15.919 couple of days ago. What did he have to say 0:18:15.960 --> 0:18:19.800 about it? He has really done a good job in 0:18:20.040 --> 0:18:24.200 terms of I think keeping this case in the public eye. 0:18:24.640 --> 0:18:27.760 I will say that about him. He is um. You know, Phil, 0:18:27.840 --> 0:18:31.399 you've lived in South Georgia. I mean, you know, you 0:18:31.480 --> 0:18:33.000 know how it is down here. There's a lot of 0:18:33.040 --> 0:18:36.000 red tape, and there's a lot of bureaucracy, but he 0:18:36.200 --> 0:18:38.119 is really one of those sheriffs that I think you 0:18:38.200 --> 0:18:40.720 can go and sit down and talk to. And I'm 0:18:40.760 --> 0:18:43.600 not just being a cheerleader here for Sheriff Fester, but 0:18:44.320 --> 0:18:47.440 anytime I've ever needed to reach out to him, he's 0:18:47.480 --> 0:18:50.320 been available. In fact, when I set up this story, 0:18:51.040 --> 0:18:53.840 I think he had just gotten in office, and he 0:18:53.960 --> 0:18:58.440 actually came into office after another the previous sheriff was 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:03.760 arrested for stealing marijuana from the evidence locker and given 0:19:03.800 --> 0:19:07.919 it to a church member that he knew had cancer. 0:19:08.600 --> 0:19:12.200 So that's how the sheriff before him ended up getting 0:19:12.200 --> 0:19:14.840 out of office. So I didn't have any contact with 0:19:14.920 --> 0:19:17.879 that guy. So Sheriff Ester comes in and you know, 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:20.560 when I called him and talked to him, he opened 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.400 his office to me. We were able to sit down 0:19:22.520 --> 0:19:24.720 and have a one on one about this case. And 0:19:25.040 --> 0:19:28.439 he also brought in Asan Collins, the case agent at 0:19:28.440 --> 0:19:30.040 the time, who was you know, on top of this 0:19:30.160 --> 0:19:32.800 case for you know, for several years. And you know, 0:19:32.840 --> 0:19:36.240 we sat down and talked about this at length, and 0:19:37.000 --> 0:19:39.560 you know, you don't always get that from a lot 0:19:39.640 --> 0:19:43.399 of sheriffs, based on some folks I've worked with. I 0:19:43.440 --> 0:19:47.440 applaud him for his efforts, I really do. Did he 0:19:47.560 --> 0:19:49.320 offer to show you any of the evidence that they 0:19:49.359 --> 0:19:54.560 did have. They actually gave me more information that than 0:19:54.600 --> 0:19:57.080 I thought they would. You know, I think that there's 0:19:57.119 --> 0:19:59.399 certain boundaries they don't want to cross. I get it, 0:19:59.480 --> 0:20:04.000 I underst stand that. But to the point of telling 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.560 me everything that they possibly could without jeopardizing any sort 0:20:07.600 --> 0:20:10.359 of sensitive evidence that you know, could mess up their case, 0:20:10.920 --> 0:20:13.159 they gave me as much as as I could have 0:20:13.200 --> 0:20:16.680 asked for. At that point. It's pretty well known, you know, 0:20:16.880 --> 0:20:21.000 around Turner County that somebody there knows something. This is 0:20:21.040 --> 0:20:23.720 a small town in South Georgia. Triple homicides just don't 0:20:23.760 --> 0:20:26.920 happen every day. They do sometimes, but it is very 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:31.520 very rare to say that triple homicide's gonna happen in 0:20:31.600 --> 0:20:34.800 the middle of the night in Rebecca, where probably the 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:37.399 only nine one one call they get at three o'clock 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:40.159 in the morning might be a cow loose in the 0:20:40.320 --> 0:20:43.560 road or car hitting the deer. To say that someone 0:20:43.680 --> 0:20:48.520 just randomly stopped at this house probably not likely. Someone 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:53.480 in Turner County probably knows who did this. I'm reading 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:58.400 from in August two thousand five item on the website 0:20:58.440 --> 0:21:02.040 for w a LB TV, and it says ex Ashburn 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:06.560 cop KINMA deputy arrested in East Georgia. And it goes 0:21:06.600 --> 0:21:09.760 on to say a suspect in an unsolved Turner County 0:21:09.800 --> 0:21:14.159 triple homicide is arrested for rape near Savannah, and that 0:21:14.359 --> 0:21:18.520 is referencing then thirty one year old Jason Walker. What 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:23.600 do we know about Jason Walker? The answer that I 0:21:23.760 --> 0:21:26.440 got when I was looking into this, you know, several 0:21:26.560 --> 0:21:30.320 years ago, was that they didn't find any evidence to 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:34.040 indicate that he had anything to do with it. You know, 0:21:34.320 --> 0:21:36.680 I know that that he was one of the individuals 0:21:36.920 --> 0:21:40.760 that that they looked at. And I do recall that 0:21:40.840 --> 0:21:44.879 story now that you mentioned it, but I think you know, 0:21:45.000 --> 0:21:47.440 at least to this point, he had been ruled out. 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.320 How far along in her pregnancy was Melissa Wideman at 0:21:52.320 --> 0:21:55.000 the time she was murdered, You know, she was eight 0:21:55.080 --> 0:21:57.520 months pregnant, so I mean she was she was due 0:21:57.560 --> 0:22:02.359 to have that child very soon weeks after this happened. 0:22:02.400 --> 0:22:04.800 She would have had a child in Tommy, Joe and 0:22:04.840 --> 0:22:07.879 Deva would have been grandparents. Do we know or has 0:22:07.920 --> 0:22:10.040 it ever been released who the father of the baby 0:22:10.200 --> 0:22:15.800 was That I don't know. The news article references him 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:20.120 as a person of interest. Quote in a March two 0:22:20.160 --> 0:22:23.840 thousand two Triple Hannaside and Turner County. He's a former 0:22:23.920 --> 0:22:29.880 Ashburn policeman and Turner County sheriff's deputy. It says Walker's 0:22:29.960 --> 0:22:33.800 former girlfriend Melissa Whiderman, who was pregnant and her parents, 0:22:33.880 --> 0:22:37.800