1 00:00:08,440 --> 00:00:10,159 Speaker 1: Place your left hand on the bay of Bible and 2 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:14,280 Speaker 1: raise your right hand and repeat after me. I solemnly 3 00:00:14,360 --> 00:00:19,320 Speaker 1: swear the jury trying to get defended. The process continued 4 00:00:19,360 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: this weekend in Ferguson and around the country, resisting you. 5 00:00:23,160 --> 00:00:25,880 Speaker 1: It makes no sense. If it doesn't fit, you must 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:29,360 Speaker 1: equit judge. You are the last line of reason in 7 00:00:29,400 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: this case. Every one of us took out all the 8 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:37,960 Speaker 1: office and we're scorn to uphold the Constitution. From Tenderfoot 9 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,960 Speaker 1: TV in Atlanta, this is sworn. I'm your host, Philip 10 00:00:43,000 --> 00:00:46,239 Speaker 1: Holloway in Turner County. If somebody's got a problem with you, 11 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:48,040 Speaker 1: they're probably gonna go up and say it to you, 12 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 1: but it's not necessarily going to lead them to kill 13 00:00:51,800 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: an entire family and burn their house down m M. 14 00:01:01,760 --> 00:01:04,720 Speaker 1: In the last episode, I spoke to John Dawes, a 15 00:01:04,840 --> 00:01:07,640 Speaker 1: cold case expert, who felt that greed and money are 16 00:01:07,680 --> 00:01:12,679 Speaker 1: almost always the motivation for murder. Also, the majority of 17 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: murders are committed by someone or a group who knows 18 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:19,720 Speaker 1: the victims personally. He said that if this were his 19 00:01:19,840 --> 00:01:22,800 Speaker 1: case in his hands, he would typically start with the 20 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 1: family who had something to gain here. Also, because Melissa 21 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,080 Speaker 1: was eight months pregnant and nearly ready to give birth. 22 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:32,840 Speaker 1: He said he would definitely look into the father of 23 00:01:32,880 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 1: our child. In just a minute, Meredith goes to talk 24 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:40,360 Speaker 1: to Ben Baker at the Wiregrass newspaper in Ashburn. But 25 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,640 Speaker 1: before we get to that, there was a strange development 26 00:01:43,640 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: in the case. Some very sensitive information came our way. 27 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:50,360 Speaker 1: We cannot share all of it with you, but we'd 28 00:01:50,360 --> 00:02:14,880 Speaker 1: like to play you a short clip. M H. Why 29 00:02:15,680 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 1: am I interested in? What are the alibi that night 30 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,200 Speaker 1: for the prime suspect in the murder case? Do you 31 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: understand what I'm telling you? They were his only alibi. 32 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:34,639 Speaker 1: Early on in our investigation, we received this phone call 33 00:02:34,720 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 1: about the Wideman murders. By all accounts, it seemed credible. 34 00:02:40,760 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: The source was close enough to the case that the 35 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 1: story made sense, but disconnected enough that there was no 36 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:48,200 Speaker 1: reason for the individual to lie. We'll get back to 37 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,120 Speaker 1: this later, but for now, let's go to the Wiregrass. 38 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: It was firing the festival weekend. I don't remember the year, 39 00:02:59,120 --> 00:03:01,600 Speaker 1: but that was, of course the whole talk of the town. 40 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:03,560 Speaker 1: The next morning, That's when I found out about it. 41 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: I was said the Wideman's were murdered and the house 42 00:03:06,160 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: they were in was burned down. My impression was I 43 00:03:10,400 --> 00:03:12,359 Speaker 1: didn't have one. I was just too numb to think 44 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:15,040 Speaker 1: about it. I was too stunned. This has been Baker. 45 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,040 Speaker 1: He's been the editor of the newspaper for twenty three years. 46 00:03:18,200 --> 00:03:21,840 Speaker 1: When do you think it's set in gradually over the 47 00:03:21,880 --> 00:03:24,519 Speaker 1: course of the next few months. It took a while 48 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 1: for me to realize that Tommy Joe was gone, the 49 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:30,920 Speaker 1: other ones were gone. I was more of a friend 50 00:03:30,919 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: to Tommy Joe than his daughter and his wife. And 51 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,400 Speaker 1: it was firing festival weekend, and I'm the general runaround 52 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:41,280 Speaker 1: guy at the festival. Something he needs to do it, 53 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,760 Speaker 1: and they holler at me to do it. So I 54 00:03:43,760 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: really didn't have time to process it until the week 55 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 1: after the festival, because when we got done with the festival, 56 00:03:50,280 --> 00:03:53,120 Speaker 1: then I had to both cover the festival and cover 57 00:03:53,200 --> 00:03:56,600 Speaker 1: the Wideman case for the newspaper. All my energies at 58 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: that time were directed to getting everything into the paper. 59 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 1: And you've been a reporter for as long as I have, 60 00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:05,320 Speaker 1: you learned to distance yourself emotionally from the subject at 61 00:04:05,360 --> 00:04:07,200 Speaker 1: hand because you've got a job to do. You just 62 00:04:07,240 --> 00:04:09,640 Speaker 1: get it put out and then the next week, Yeah, 63 00:04:09,640 --> 00:04:11,360 Speaker 1: that's when he hit me. He was gone, You don't. 64 00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 1: Ben's office is in the center of Ashbourne, but the 65 00:04:14,520 --> 00:04:17,960 Speaker 1: streets outside aren't exactly bustling. As we said, it's a 66 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,200 Speaker 1: very quiet place. There's an eclectic mix of stuffed animal 67 00:04:21,240 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: heads mounted on the walls and services. Inside of his office. 68 00:04:24,360 --> 00:04:27,520 Speaker 1: There's also stacks and stacks of papers, periodicals and books. 69 00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:29,719 Speaker 1: You can tell Ben's been in the business for a 70 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,760 Speaker 1: long time. When you're in my line of business, you 71 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 1: need to know things that don't get published, and people 72 00:04:37,800 --> 00:04:40,240 Speaker 1: tell me things. I'm the newspaper editor. I'm also a 73 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:43,880 Speaker 1: minister here and for some reason, people just tell me stuff. 74 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: And depending on how and why and when they tell me, 75 00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,279 Speaker 1: it can be confidential or it can be passed along. 76 00:04:50,839 --> 00:04:53,520 Speaker 1: And as I tell people, if you tell me something 77 00:04:53,560 --> 00:04:56,719 Speaker 1: as a reporter and it's important, of eventually it's going 78 00:04:56,760 --> 00:04:59,520 Speaker 1: in the paper, but it does have to be properly timed. 79 00:05:00,480 --> 00:05:03,800 Speaker 1: So I need to know things so that I can 80 00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 1: look for stuff and keep some things out of the 81 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,559 Speaker 1: paper that simply don't need to be there. Some people 82 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:12,640 Speaker 1: are gonna say, we've got a right to know this, Yeah, 83 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:17,360 Speaker 1: you do. Is your right to know outweighing the good 84 00:05:17,440 --> 00:05:20,400 Speaker 1: to the community. In my eyes, been a somewhat of 85 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: an expert on Turner County. Being the editor of the 86 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:25,720 Speaker 1: local newspaper, it's his business to know what's going on, 87 00:05:25,920 --> 00:05:28,840 Speaker 1: and he's clearly very well connected. I asked him who 88 00:05:28,880 --> 00:05:31,400 Speaker 1: he had talked to in regards the Wideman case. Talked 89 00:05:31,480 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: to the e M S Director. I talked to the 90 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:37,640 Speaker 1: fire chief in the Sheriff's department. Was there anyone that 91 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:40,719 Speaker 1: wasn't very willing to talk or they shared with me 92 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 1: on the record everything they could talk about at the time. 93 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:48,719 Speaker 1: And since then there have been many more conversations, many 94 00:05:48,760 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 1: more conversations as in information that wasn't disclosed before or 95 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: wasn't known before. Well, there's been some stuff that wasn't 96 00:05:56,360 --> 00:05:58,960 Speaker 1: known that day that were talked about, and there's been 97 00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: some stuff that I mean, why do you need to 98 00:06:02,360 --> 00:06:05,719 Speaker 1: know the caliber gun they were killed with? One? I 99 00:06:05,760 --> 00:06:08,160 Speaker 1: asked Ben about the general public feelings in Turner County 100 00:06:08,240 --> 00:06:11,279 Speaker 1: regarding the Wideman case. There are some people that swear 101 00:06:11,480 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 1: they know who did it. You ask them, they'll tell 102 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: you the individual's name. Well, how do you know this? 103 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:19,200 Speaker 1: He's just that kind of a person. You've got some evidence, 104 00:06:19,279 --> 00:06:22,159 Speaker 1: let's talk about it. You said his car was parked there, 105 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,919 Speaker 1: or his truck, or his motorcycle or his bicycle was 106 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,400 Speaker 1: parked there that night. Okay, we got something to work with. 107 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:30,919 Speaker 1: You say he was riding around that night over in 108 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,240 Speaker 1: that neighborhood. A little bit more tenuous. You just say 109 00:06:34,279 --> 00:06:36,680 Speaker 1: you just simply know, because he's that kind of a person. No, 110 00:06:36,920 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: you don't know that. Ben's right about this. Innocent until 111 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,240 Speaker 1: proven guilty, and without evidence, people can speculate all day 112 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:47,680 Speaker 1: bodies and then they were shot, and there was some 113 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,239 Speaker 1: talk about tire tracks, but there was also the issue 114 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: of all the public safety there, so they weren't sure 115 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,640 Speaker 1: because the tire tracks, you're gonna be any good. Where 116 00:06:55,680 --> 00:06:58,080 Speaker 1: were the tire tracks there in the yard, up the 117 00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:00,880 Speaker 1: driveway or just think in the day is right there 118 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 1: at the property. I am not certain if there was 119 00:07:04,480 --> 00:07:07,400 Speaker 1: a motive or not. Just beyond Hey, here's the house. 120 00:07:07,480 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: Let's go see who's here and rob women kill him. 121 00:07:10,040 --> 00:07:12,679 Speaker 1: You're gonna say that just simply doesn't happen. Oh yeah, 122 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:15,560 Speaker 1: hell it does too. You talked to the sheriff's department, 123 00:07:15,560 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 1: in the police department, we have smash and grab robberies frequently. 124 00:07:19,040 --> 00:07:22,200 Speaker 1: Because we're on the interstate. This might sound plausible, but 125 00:07:22,240 --> 00:07:24,840 Speaker 1: to be candid, there's no evidence that this was a burglary. 126 00:07:25,000 --> 00:07:27,360 Speaker 1: Local law enforcement and never suggested that they had any 127 00:07:27,360 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: reason to believe that it was. We had a gentleman 128 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:34,440 Speaker 1: who went missing. They found his car. He popped up 129 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: in a pond a week later. That's still a mysterious death. 130 00:07:38,680 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: We asked about what the chief of fire had personally 131 00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:43,560 Speaker 1: reported to pen what he described to you about the scene. 132 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: He said it was bad and the house was burned 133 00:07:47,200 --> 00:07:50,640 Speaker 1: completely down by the time they got there, was fully engulfed. 134 00:07:50,960 --> 00:07:53,120 Speaker 1: You look around the room in here. You see my 135 00:07:53,200 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: fellow dear, You see my elk on the other side. 136 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:58,520 Speaker 1: I got a bison. I got two little bucks. Over there, 137 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:02,520 Speaker 1: I kill one shot. There's the buffalo skull. I know 138 00:08:02,600 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: people that can come walk through that door right there 139 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 1: and look at this and have a panic attack and 140 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:10,240 Speaker 1: pass out on the floor. You're not prepared to see 141 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,040 Speaker 1: this kind of scene. I don't care who you are. 142 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:16,440 Speaker 1: We've got firemen who were in the military, who were 143 00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,720 Speaker 1: in Vietnam, who were in other places, and they've seen 144 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:23,440 Speaker 1: bodies blowing the pieces you're not prepared to see that 145 00:08:23,520 --> 00:08:26,840 Speaker 1: kind of thing. I don't care who you are unless 146 00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:31,560 Speaker 1: you're a complete psychopath and you have no human emotion, 147 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:35,640 Speaker 1: emotional connection. You just don't have any empathy whatsoever. Then 148 00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:38,240 Speaker 1: you look on it every day and say, huh, I'm 149 00:08:38,280 --> 00:08:40,679 Speaker 1: ready for a ham sandwich for lunch. I think we 150 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: asked Ben who owned the property now that the house 151 00:08:42,720 --> 00:08:44,959 Speaker 1: had been burned down. He told us that to his 152 00:08:45,040 --> 00:08:47,360 Speaker 1: latest knowledge, it still belonged to the remaining members of 153 00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: the Widman family. So we asked who that was. Charles 154 00:08:50,240 --> 00:08:53,280 Speaker 1: Henry is here and his sons ship I think they both. 155 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: Charles Henry and No lives in Rebecca with Diane, and 156 00:08:56,840 --> 00:09:00,200 Speaker 1: I think Chip lives in Rebecca or Fitzgerald all. Are 157 00:09:00,400 --> 00:09:04,280 Speaker 1: they still working in the community Chips an insurance salesman. 158 00:09:04,400 --> 00:09:07,120 Speaker 1: Charles Henry. I don't know if he's still working or 159 00:09:07,160 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: not an insurance or if he retired. I don't remember 160 00:09:10,320 --> 00:09:12,120 Speaker 1: about how many times do you think he wrote about 161 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:16,080 Speaker 1: the Wideman case? Up to about a dozen? I believe 162 00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:20,160 Speaker 1: when's the last time you personally wrote something. It's been 163 00:09:20,200 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 1: several years since I've written about it. Christie used to 164 00:09:23,760 --> 00:09:25,480 Speaker 1: work for the those Settle Star would write about it 165 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 1: every year on the anniversary. But she was related to 166 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:30,560 Speaker 1: the family. So unless you're connected to it, you never 167 00:09:30,640 --> 00:09:33,600 Speaker 1: think about it. But there's nothing else to report. What 168 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,760 Speaker 1: are you gonna say, well, it's still under an investigation. Yeah, 169 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:40,319 Speaker 1: we know that. All that's gonna happen by me reporting 170 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,800 Speaker 1: on it now is remind the remaining family that this 171 00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 1: is unsolved and it's going to renew the pain they have. 172 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:49,760 Speaker 1: Is the public's right to know that it is not 173 00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 1: solved more important than not making that family hurt anymore. 174 00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:57,840 Speaker 1: It ain't been solved the minute he gets solved, the 175 00:09:57,840 --> 00:10:00,679 Speaker 1: minute they arrest somebody we're talking about on her headline. 176 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,719 Speaker 1: In that way, it's newspaper and breaking news. I may 177 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: put out a special edition. Sure, its department has got 178 00:10:05,800 --> 00:10:07,839 Speaker 1: a pretty high and police department got a pretty high 179 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:12,400 Speaker 1: rate on solving cases. But as our farmer, Sheriff Wesley 180 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:16,120 Speaker 1: five said, a law enforcement man ain't no better than 181 00:10:16,160 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: the information he gets. The only way this thing is 182 00:10:19,280 --> 00:10:21,000 Speaker 1: going to be solved, to my way of thinking, is 183 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:24,000 Speaker 1: if somebody comes forward and says, hey, I know about this, 184 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:27,400 Speaker 1: here's some information, or somebody's on their deathbed and they 185 00:10:27,440 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 1: confess we've exhausted the physical evidence. Fire is an awesome 186 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:37,240 Speaker 1: way to cover your tracks. I had qualms about even 187 00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:40,800 Speaker 1: talking to you guys for this podcast thing, but I 188 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 1: have to weigh again respect for the families versus they're 189 00:10:46,360 --> 00:10:49,240 Speaker 1: wanting to get some closure on this. Y'all reach a 190 00:10:49,400 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 1: much different audience than I do. I can write about 191 00:10:52,679 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: this freaking Wideman case every week for the rest of 192 00:10:55,760 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: my life if it's not solved, and it's gonna be 193 00:10:58,240 --> 00:11:01,480 Speaker 1: going to the same people. Y'all have a very different 194 00:11:01,520 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: audience than me. You might can reach somebody I can't. 195 00:11:05,920 --> 00:11:09,200 Speaker 1: That's why I'm even talking to you today, because you 196 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: might can get somebody who knows something. If I thought 197 00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:18,000 Speaker 1: you couldn't, I said, I say, you can't talk to you. 198 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:21,360 Speaker 1: You got four people dead. We need some closure, hair, folks. 199 00:11:21,360 --> 00:11:24,720 Speaker 1: Somebody needs to be held accountable for this. The person 200 00:11:24,760 --> 00:11:26,839 Speaker 1: who did this keeps her mouth shut and takes it 201 00:11:26,920 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: to the grave, never be solved in this life. Person 202 00:11:30,440 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: who did it talks about it sold of course. In 203 00:11:47,360 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 1: addition to the local newspaper, the case caught the eye 204 00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:54,800 Speaker 1: of larger media outlets such as local television stations. Even 205 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:57,840 Speaker 1: though this was a small town crime. It really was 206 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:02,640 Speaker 1: a bone chilling trip homicide, and so it got coverage. 207 00:12:02,920 --> 00:12:07,240 Speaker 1: As it turns out, Rebecca is not really far from Albany, Georgia. Albany, 208 00:12:07,280 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: Georgia has a larger media market and it includes a 209 00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,959 Speaker 1: television station known as w A LB TV. I've got 210 00:12:13,960 --> 00:12:16,760 Speaker 1: a friend w A l B KD. Fowler is an 211 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,920 Speaker 1: anchor and reporter, and as it turns out, my friend 212 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:23,719 Speaker 1: Cade has covered the Wideman case very closely and has 213 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:29,760 Speaker 1: reported on it many times. I was actually looking on 214 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:32,960 Speaker 1: the g B i's website and they had a list 215 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:36,000 Speaker 1: of cold cases on there, and uh, scrolling through and 216 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,839 Speaker 1: and on there it will list the location where the 217 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,960 Speaker 1: crime occurred. And I saw Rebecca pop up and I said, Rebecca, 218 00:12:43,040 --> 00:12:46,199 Speaker 1: Rebecca that so that's in that's in Turner County. And 219 00:12:47,240 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 1: this was like in twenty twelve, I believe when I 220 00:12:50,120 --> 00:12:55,199 Speaker 1: when I did this story U and I was like, 221 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:58,079 Speaker 1: how did I not know about this? And it has 222 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,680 Speaker 1: sort of, you know, not hit my radar. I guess 223 00:13:01,720 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: I just didn't know about it, and I heard a 224 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:04,839 Speaker 1: lot of talk about it, and so that's when I 225 00:13:04,880 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 1: started looking into and started making some phone calls and 226 00:13:07,480 --> 00:13:09,319 Speaker 1: try to, you know, pick back up on it and 227 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:11,360 Speaker 1: see if there was any new leads we could track 228 00:13:11,440 --> 00:13:13,240 Speaker 1: down on on our end in terms of trying to 229 00:13:13,280 --> 00:13:15,600 Speaker 1: get some people to talk. My name is Kate Fowler. 230 00:13:15,920 --> 00:13:18,920 Speaker 1: I'm a reporter an anchor at w A l B. 231 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,079 Speaker 1: I started there and in two thousand and seven covered 232 00:13:22,080 --> 00:13:24,599 Speaker 1: a lot of crime and uh, you know, specialized in 233 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:27,439 Speaker 1: reporting on on cold cases and stuff because there's a 234 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:30,400 Speaker 1: number of them in South Georgia. Is there still a 235 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: lot of public interest this what fifteen years later? Actually 236 00:13:35,440 --> 00:13:38,200 Speaker 1: there is. And you know, I'll give I'll give credit 237 00:13:38,280 --> 00:13:41,760 Speaker 1: there too to the Sheriff Andy Hester. I mean he is. 238 00:13:42,679 --> 00:13:44,800 Speaker 1: He has kept this out in the in the public's eye, 239 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 1: you know, more so than than anyone else that's served 240 00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: in that office. And I think there's been since this happened. 241 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 1: There were two sheriffs in office prior to Sheriff Hester. 242 00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:58,760 Speaker 1: He's made a couple of sell a couple of press 243 00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,480 Speaker 1: conferences just in the past year or so asking for 244 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,600 Speaker 1: more tips on this case. You have three people who 245 00:14:06,640 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 1: are dead. You know, by all accounts, these were just 246 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 1: people who were you know, good small town folks who 247 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:14,920 Speaker 1: minded their own business. They didn't deserve to die. I 248 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:16,840 Speaker 1: mean this young lady, she was pregnant at the time. 249 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:20,760 Speaker 1: So basically you have four, four lives essentially, you know, 250 00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:24,480 Speaker 1: that were lost in this case, and that they shouldn't 251 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:28,560 Speaker 1: be forgotten. So what do we know publicly? If you 252 00:14:28,640 --> 00:14:32,000 Speaker 1: can summarize that and give us background on the case 253 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,200 Speaker 1: and what we do know, and then what we don't 254 00:14:34,280 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: know and what we still need to know. Rebecca, you know, 255 00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:40,160 Speaker 1: it's a small town, probably only a few hundred people 256 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:44,040 Speaker 1: that lived there, squiet people keeping themselves in this house 257 00:14:44,120 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: where the wide Emans live was off of Highway Win twelve, 258 00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:50,000 Speaker 1: and it's pretty much one of those locations where you 259 00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,960 Speaker 1: you gotta be going through it to go through it. 260 00:14:53,040 --> 00:14:56,160 Speaker 1: You know, it's just out there in farmland. And so 261 00:14:56,440 --> 00:14:58,960 Speaker 1: there was a truck driver that was driving down the 262 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,680 Speaker 1: road in the middle of the night. He ends up seeing, 263 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:02,640 Speaker 1: you know, flames coming off the side of the road, 264 00:15:02,680 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 1: calls an on one one. They respond to it. It's 265 00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: a it's a house fire. So their homes engulfed in 266 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: flames and they finally, you know, put out the fire 267 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,520 Speaker 1: and then you know, when the firefighters are going through 268 00:15:12,520 --> 00:15:14,800 Speaker 1: and they're digging through the ashes, they realized that, you know, 269 00:15:14,840 --> 00:15:16,760 Speaker 1: they're not dealing with just a you know, a house 270 00:15:16,800 --> 00:15:19,880 Speaker 1: fire here, They're dealing with the homicide. They found all 271 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:26,160 Speaker 1: three victims inside Tommy, Joe, Deborah, Melissa, and very soon 272 00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:29,280 Speaker 1: after determined that they had been shot to them, and 273 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:33,160 Speaker 1: then someone torched the house to destroy the evidence. Did 274 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: they find evidence of any accelerate I've asked that question. 275 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,880 Speaker 1: I don't think they really went into detail about what 276 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:43,560 Speaker 1: was actually used to start the fire. I think that's 277 00:15:43,560 --> 00:15:46,320 Speaker 1: probably something that there they're going to keep to themselves, 278 00:15:46,440 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 1: at least, I know I asked that question, but you know, 279 00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:50,680 Speaker 1: it's been a few years, but I don't think that 280 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:55,000 Speaker 1: they specifically explained what was used to start the fire. 281 00:15:56,560 --> 00:16:00,240 Speaker 1: What else have they kept to themselves? I don't know. 282 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:02,680 Speaker 1: I mean, at this point, you know, I'm not sure 283 00:16:02,720 --> 00:16:06,000 Speaker 1: they've been you know, fairly open, you know about getting 284 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,720 Speaker 1: some information out. I mean, we do know that they 285 00:16:08,760 --> 00:16:11,240 Speaker 1: were all, you know, executed there in the home, that 286 00:16:11,320 --> 00:16:14,080 Speaker 1: they were shot, and they have told us that much. 287 00:16:14,760 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: And the other thing that they didn't and I will 288 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:19,800 Speaker 1: say this is, you know, despite the fact that so 289 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:23,080 Speaker 1: much was destroyed in that fire, there was really no 290 00:16:23,360 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: evidence to suggest that anything was taken from the home. 291 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: I think they were able to gather enough evidence to determined, 292 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 1: you know, this wasn't probably just some random home invasion. 293 00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:37,320 Speaker 1: Was there any neighbors nearby that might have seen something? 294 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,200 Speaker 1: Not that I know. I mean I think this house 295 00:16:39,320 --> 00:16:42,080 Speaker 1: was was really just kind of off the road. I mean, 296 00:16:42,160 --> 00:16:44,920 Speaker 1: you you know South Georgia well filled. I mean you've 297 00:16:44,920 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: you've been through there. You drive them along those country 298 00:16:47,240 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: roads and Highway went twelve, you know, going through Turner 299 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,680 Speaker 1: Counties about his country as it gets, I mean you 300 00:16:51,760 --> 00:16:55,480 Speaker 1: go farmland, farmland, trees, and then occasionally you see a 301 00:16:55,560 --> 00:16:57,720 Speaker 1: house off to the side and the house, of course 302 00:16:57,800 --> 00:16:59,400 Speaker 1: you know it was destroyed, has been raised since then, 303 00:16:59,480 --> 00:17:02,160 Speaker 1: there's nothing there, but not a lot of neighbors. I mean, 304 00:17:02,200 --> 00:17:05,160 Speaker 1: I think you had to actually go up a driveway 305 00:17:05,200 --> 00:17:08,879 Speaker 1: to get there. The big question that everyone is asking is, uh, 306 00:17:09,320 --> 00:17:12,760 Speaker 1: whether they think that it was someone local that did this. 307 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:15,800 Speaker 1: Isn't someone in the community. Is it's someone who you 308 00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:18,399 Speaker 1: know knew the family? Tommy Joe he was the he 309 00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: was the tax assessor in Turner County, and Deborah owned 310 00:17:22,760 --> 00:17:26,480 Speaker 1: a bridle shot in Ashbourne. So these are people that 311 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,639 Speaker 1: you know, we're you know, fairly well known and fairly 312 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:31,679 Speaker 1: well liked in the community. To my knowledge, they had 313 00:17:31,760 --> 00:17:34,200 Speaker 1: they had no enemies and and I mean a tax 314 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,000 Speaker 1: assessor is probably not gonna win a popularity contest, you 315 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,600 Speaker 1: know when it comes to you know, elected officials or 316 00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: county officials or whatnot. But no one that I that 317 00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: I've talked to, you know, over the years of just 318 00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:47,600 Speaker 1: talking to people back and forth and even covering this story, 319 00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: everyone said, you know, he was he was a good guy. 320 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,680 Speaker 1: I honestly believe that he didn't have any enemies. And 321 00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:59,160 Speaker 1: even so in Turner County, if somebody's got a problem 322 00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:00,840 Speaker 1: with either, they're probably going to go up and say 323 00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,640 Speaker 1: it to you, but it's not necessarily going to lead 324 00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:06,640 Speaker 1: them to kill an entire family and burn their house down. 325 00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:10,879 Speaker 1: When's the last time you spoke to Sheriff Fester about 326 00:18:10,960 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 1: this case? I talked to Sheriff Ester, you know, a 327 00:18:13,880 --> 00:18:15,919 Speaker 1: couple of days ago. What did he have to say 328 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:19,800 Speaker 1: about it? He has really done a good job in 329 00:18:20,040 --> 00:18:24,200 Speaker 1: terms of I think keeping this case in the public eye. 330 00:18:24,640 --> 00:18:27,760 Speaker 1: I will say that about him. He is um. You know, Phil, 331 00:18:27,840 --> 00:18:31,399 Speaker 1: you've lived in South Georgia. I mean, you know, you 332 00:18:31,480 --> 00:18:33,000 Speaker 1: know how it is down here. There's a lot of 333 00:18:33,040 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: red tape, and there's a lot of bureaucracy, but he 334 00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:38,119 Speaker 1: is really one of those sheriffs that I think you 335 00:18:38,200 --> 00:18:40,720 Speaker 1: can go and sit down and talk to. And I'm 336 00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: not just being a cheerleader here for Sheriff Fester, but 337 00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: anytime I've ever needed to reach out to him, he's 338 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,320 Speaker 1: been available. In fact, when I set up this story, 339 00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: I think he had just gotten in office, and he 340 00:18:53,960 --> 00:18:58,440 Speaker 1: actually came into office after another the previous sheriff was 341 00:18:58,880 --> 00:19:03,760 Speaker 1: arrested for stealing marijuana from the evidence locker and given 342 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:07,919 Speaker 1: it to a church member that he knew had cancer. 343 00:19:08,600 --> 00:19:12,200 Speaker 1: So that's how the sheriff before him ended up getting 344 00:19:12,200 --> 00:19:14,840 Speaker 1: out of office. So I didn't have any contact with 345 00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: that guy. So Sheriff Ester comes in and you know, 346 00:19:17,920 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: when I called him and talked to him, he opened 347 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:22,400 Speaker 1: his office to me. We were able to sit down 348 00:19:22,520 --> 00:19:24,720 Speaker 1: and have a one on one about this case. And 349 00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:28,439 Speaker 1: he also brought in Asan Collins, the case agent at 350 00:19:28,440 --> 00:19:30,040 Speaker 1: the time, who was you know, on top of this 351 00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:32,800 Speaker 1: case for you know, for several years. And you know, 352 00:19:32,840 --> 00:19:36,240 Speaker 1: we sat down and talked about this at length, and 353 00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:39,560 Speaker 1: you know, you don't always get that from a lot 354 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,399 Speaker 1: of sheriffs, based on some folks I've worked with. I 355 00:19:43,440 --> 00:19:47,440 Speaker 1: applaud him for his efforts, I really do. Did he 356 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:49,320 Speaker 1: offer to show you any of the evidence that they 357 00:19:49,359 --> 00:19:54,560 Speaker 1: did have. They actually gave me more information that than 358 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 1: I thought they would. You know, I think that there's 359 00:19:57,119 --> 00:19:59,399 Speaker 1: certain boundaries they don't want to cross. I get it, 360 00:19:59,480 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: I underst stand that. But to the point of telling 361 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:07,560 Speaker 1: me everything that they possibly could without jeopardizing any sort 362 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,359 Speaker 1: of sensitive evidence that you know, could mess up their case, 363 00:20:10,920 --> 00:20:13,159 Speaker 1: they gave me as much as as I could have 364 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:16,680 Speaker 1: asked for. At that point. It's pretty well known, you know, 365 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,000 Speaker 1: around Turner County that somebody there knows something. This is 366 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:23,720 Speaker 1: a small town in South Georgia. Triple homicides just don't 367 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: happen every day. They do sometimes, but it is very 368 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: very rare to say that triple homicide's gonna happen in 369 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:34,800 Speaker 1: the middle of the night in Rebecca, where probably the 370 00:20:34,920 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: only nine one one call they get at three o'clock 371 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:40,159 Speaker 1: in the morning might be a cow loose in the 372 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,560 Speaker 1: road or car hitting the deer. To say that someone 373 00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:48,520 Speaker 1: just randomly stopped at this house probably not likely. Someone 374 00:20:48,840 --> 00:20:53,480 Speaker 1: in Turner County probably knows who did this. I'm reading 375 00:20:53,520 --> 00:20:58,400 Speaker 1: from in August two thousand five item on the website 376 00:20:58,440 --> 00:21:02,040 Speaker 1: for w a LB TV, and it says ex Ashburn 377 00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:06,560 Speaker 1: cop KINMA deputy arrested in East Georgia. And it goes 378 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,760 Speaker 1: on to say a suspect in an unsolved Turner County 379 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:14,159 Speaker 1: triple homicide is arrested for rape near Savannah, and that 380 00:21:14,359 --> 00:21:18,520 Speaker 1: is referencing then thirty one year old Jason Walker. What 381 00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 1: do we know about Jason Walker? The answer that I 382 00:21:23,760 --> 00:21:26,440 Speaker 1: got when I was looking into this, you know, several 383 00:21:26,560 --> 00:21:30,320 Speaker 1: years ago, was that they didn't find any evidence to 384 00:21:30,359 --> 00:21:34,040 Speaker 1: indicate that he had anything to do with it. You know, 385 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:36,680 Speaker 1: I know that that he was one of the individuals 386 00:21:36,920 --> 00:21:40,760 Speaker 1: that that they looked at. And I do recall that 387 00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:44,879 Speaker 1: story now that you mentioned it, but I think you know, 388 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 1: at least to this point, he had been ruled out. 389 00:21:49,080 --> 00:21:52,320 Speaker 1: How far along in her pregnancy was Melissa Wideman at 390 00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 1: the time she was murdered, You know, she was eight 391 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,520 Speaker 1: months pregnant, so I mean she was she was due 392 00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:02,359 Speaker 1: to have that child very soon weeks after this happened. 393 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 1: She would have had a child in Tommy, Joe and 394 00:22:04,840 --> 00:22:07,879 Speaker 1: Deva would have been grandparents. Do we know or has 395 00:22:07,920 --> 00:22:10,040 Speaker 1: it ever been released who the father of the baby 396 00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:15,800 Speaker 1: was That I don't know. The news article references him 397 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:20,120 Speaker 1: as a person of interest. Quote in a March two 398 00:22:20,160 --> 00:22:23,840 Speaker 1: thousand two Triple Hannaside and Turner County. He's a former 399 00:22:23,920 --> 00:22:29,880 Speaker 1: Ashburn policeman and Turner County sheriff's deputy. It says Walker's 400 00:22:29,960 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: former girlfriend Melissa Whiderman, who was pregnant and her parents, 401 00:22:33,880 --> 00:22:37,800 Speaker 1: Tommy Joe and Deborah, were murdered in their home. There's 402 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:40,760 Speaker 1: been some persons of interest that have come up, but 403 00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:45,680 Speaker 1: that's just in terms of investigators interviewing these individuals who 404 00:22:46,040 --> 00:22:49,479 Speaker 1: either knew the Widerman's or you know, in some way 405 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:54,720 Speaker 1: connected to them. I reached out to both sides of 406 00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:57,520 Speaker 1: the family. I called. I tried to reach out to 407 00:22:58,000 --> 00:23:01,240 Speaker 1: the Whiteman's side, Tommy Joe's family. I didn't hear anything 408 00:23:01,280 --> 00:23:04,720 Speaker 1: back from them. The only family member that I have 409 00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,240 Speaker 1: been able to contact and you know, speak to me 410 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: on this was we had to censor this name for 411 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,200 Speaker 1: privacy reasons. It will be mentioned just like this a 412 00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: few more times in the series, but we'll explain more later. 413 00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 1: In the fifteen years since the Widemand murders occurred. There's 414 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: been lots of things that have been discussed in the media, 415 00:23:26,760 --> 00:23:30,320 Speaker 1: lots of interviews, but the Wideman side of the family 416 00:23:30,680 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: has for the most part stayed silent. However, one name 417 00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 1: from the other side of the family has come up, 418 00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,680 Speaker 1: and it's come up several times based on what I 419 00:23:40,720 --> 00:23:43,360 Speaker 1: could find in the mainstream media. There's only been one 420 00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:46,520 Speaker 1: widely suggested person of interest in this case, and that 421 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 1: is Jason Walker. But after fifteen years, law enforcement hasn't 422 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,119 Speaker 1: been able to find anything linking Jason Walker to the 423 00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,800 Speaker 1: Widemand murders. So the question is, did Jason Walker have 424 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,680 Speaker 1: something to do with this and cover his track or 425 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:04,240 Speaker 1: could there be someone else out there that is responsible 426 00:24:04,520 --> 00:24:09,840 Speaker 1: for the Wideman's murders other than the Georgia Bureau of 427 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,560 Speaker 1: Investigation or the g b I. The Turner County Sheriff's 428 00:24:13,600 --> 00:24:18,600 Speaker 1: Office is the law enforcement agency otherwise responsible for investigating 429 00:24:18,760 --> 00:24:21,600 Speaker 1: the Wideman case. But here's the thing about the Turner 430 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:25,800 Speaker 1: County Sheriff's Office. Since the Wideman's were murdered, there's been 431 00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 1: four different sheriffs holding office in that county, and that's 432 00:24:30,640 --> 00:24:35,200 Speaker 1: really unusual because especially in South Georgia. Once an incumbent 433 00:24:35,320 --> 00:24:40,760 Speaker 1: sheriff takes office, they generally don't lose elections unless something happens. 434 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:42,880 Speaker 1: So I want to give you a rundown of who 435 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 1: the four sheriffs were and then go back and give 436 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: you some details that I found to be fascinating. In 437 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:52,040 Speaker 1: two thousand and two, when the Wideman's were murdered, the 438 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:55,880 Speaker 1: sheriff was a man named Randy Kendrick. Sheriff Kendrick held 439 00:24:55,920 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 1: office until two thousand and eight, when he lost his 440 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: re election bid to a man named Roy Wiley. Roy 441 00:25:02,960 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: Wiley was at that time the chief of police in 442 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:10,080 Speaker 1: a small town called Sycamore, Georgia. Sheriff Wiley took office 443 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: on January one, two thousand nine. Barely halfway through his term, 444 00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:20,240 Speaker 1: Sheriff Wiley resigned from office and later pled guilty to 445 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:23,879 Speaker 1: the felony criminal offense of violating his oath of office. 446 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:27,639 Speaker 1: This had to do with tampering with evidence, specifically about 447 00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:31,080 Speaker 1: marijuana that he removed from the evidence locker and gave 448 00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:33,480 Speaker 1: a way to somebody that brings us to the third 449 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:37,240 Speaker 1: sheriff since two thousand and two. That person's name was 450 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:40,960 Speaker 1: Charles Dean. He had been Sheriff Wiley's chief deputy. He 451 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,879 Speaker 1: was appointed by the probate judge to be the acting 452 00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:48,720 Speaker 1: sheriff until current Sheriff Andy Hester could be re elected 453 00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,520 Speaker 1: in a special election to fill the remaining term of 454 00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:55,160 Speaker 1: Sheriff Wiley. So I wanted to go back and take 455 00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: a closer look at the campaign where Sheriff Kendrick lost 456 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:04,240 Speaker 1: to Sheriff Wiley. In a July thirty one, two thousand 457 00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:08,320 Speaker 1: and eight media report from w a LB News in Albany, Georgia, 458 00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,320 Speaker 1: Roy Wiley says he's unhappy with the way the Sheriff's 459 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,160 Speaker 1: department has been handled, specifically referencing their budget. And here's 460 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,480 Speaker 1: the thing. He says he wants to reopen unsolved death cases. 461 00:26:21,880 --> 00:26:26,680 Speaker 1: So did Sheriff Kendrick lose his office because the Wideman 462 00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:29,840 Speaker 1: murders hadn't been solved? It sure looks that way, because 463 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 1: to my knowledge, there weren't any other unsolved death cases 464 00:26:33,720 --> 00:26:37,240 Speaker 1: pending in July of two thousand and eight, certainly none 465 00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:40,480 Speaker 1: as high profile or well known as the Wideman murders. 466 00:26:40,760 --> 00:26:43,960 Speaker 1: And according to the Tifton Gazette in December of two 467 00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:48,480 Speaker 1: thousand five, Sheriff Kendrick said that officials had recently met 468 00:26:48,920 --> 00:26:52,159 Speaker 1: at the gb I office in Perry to take another 469 00:26:52,359 --> 00:26:55,639 Speaker 1: cohesive look at the murders of the Wideman family. But 470 00:26:55,800 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: listen to this very interesting direct quote. Sheriff Kendrick said, 471 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,280 Speaker 1: as the investigation has never stopped, but I want them 472 00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:05,600 Speaker 1: to concentrate on it more than they have been doing. 473 00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:08,359 Speaker 1: They can take the case and look into it some 474 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: more and follow up on some things. So it appears 475 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: that Sheriff Kendrick is being somewhat critical himself of the 476 00:27:14,560 --> 00:27:17,959 Speaker 1: g b I. There were two more very interesting quotes 477 00:27:18,040 --> 00:27:21,200 Speaker 1: by Sheriff Kendrick. Quote. They agreed that even though the 478 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,760 Speaker 1: case is still being worked, an increased concentration is needed. 479 00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:29,040 Speaker 1: I wanted to regroup everybody and put a good, steady 480 00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: pace to it and to look at things from a 481 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,600 Speaker 1: different angle. So this makes it clear to me that 482 00:27:34,720 --> 00:27:38,400 Speaker 1: in two thousand and five, Sheriff Kendrick really did want 483 00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:42,000 Speaker 1: this investigation to move forward. He really did want the 484 00:27:42,080 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: g b I to work harder. He was pushing for 485 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: the Wideman case to be solved. I've been in law 486 00:27:48,720 --> 00:27:51,879 Speaker 1: enforcement for thirty nine years. I've been the elected chaff 487 00:27:51,960 --> 00:27:55,560 Speaker 1: for almost twenty five. I've been very fortunate to have 488 00:27:55,640 --> 00:27:58,760 Speaker 1: a career centered here in northeast Georgia. I reached out 489 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:02,240 Speaker 1: to my friend share Scott Berry be elected sheriff of 490 00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:06,960 Speaker 1: o'coney County, Georgia, just outside of Athens, Georgia. Sheriff is 491 00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,920 Speaker 1: a constitutional officer that's elected in each of the counties 492 00:28:10,960 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: in Georgia. The sheriff is the chief law enforce from 493 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,280 Speaker 1: Officer Beach Lives counties. Even though there are counties that 494 00:28:19,119 --> 00:28:23,200 Speaker 1: chose to fund a county police department and give that 495 00:28:23,320 --> 00:28:27,560 Speaker 1: agency the primary investigative jurisdiction, and there's about a dozen 496 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:30,520 Speaker 1: in the state of Georgia, mostly in metro areas. There's 497 00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:34,040 Speaker 1: very few in rural Georgia anymore. If you're the perpetator 498 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:36,879 Speaker 1: of crime, I think they view arson as a destruction 499 00:28:37,359 --> 00:28:40,640 Speaker 1: of any trace evidence or any or maybe even a body, 500 00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:44,760 Speaker 1: or maybe even a gun or whatever weapon was used 501 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:49,040 Speaker 1: in the murder case. They think it may destroy blood 502 00:28:49,080 --> 00:28:52,200 Speaker 1: evidence and things like that that maybe stains in the floor, 503 00:28:52,440 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: stains in a carpet, So fires can be used to 504 00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: destroy those things. It doesn't work all the time, that's 505 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,800 Speaker 1: the thing. A lot of times, a lot of that 506 00:29:01,920 --> 00:29:04,880 Speaker 1: tracing evidence is still there. It may be hard to find. 507 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: You may have to dig to fund it. You may 508 00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: have to move a lot of burnwood and furniture out 509 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:14,240 Speaker 1: and really dig down to the four boards to get 510 00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: what you need. But to destroy evidence is a good 511 00:29:18,000 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 1: reason for an arson. Burning is rarely, rarely, rarely complete 512 00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,800 Speaker 1: as people think it is. It is very unusual for 513 00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:31,040 Speaker 1: particularly a body, for instance, to be burned completely where 514 00:29:31,120 --> 00:29:34,680 Speaker 1: there's nothing left. That fire has to be hot, and 515 00:29:34,680 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 1: it has to be hot for a long time, and 516 00:29:36,760 --> 00:29:39,400 Speaker 1: you're not going to find that in a typical house fight. 517 00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: You have to have additional accelerance, additional fuel to destroy 518 00:29:45,040 --> 00:29:49,160 Speaker 1: a body for instance. Now, can it destroy some bloodstains 519 00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:51,840 Speaker 1: on a wall, Sure, of course it can. But is 520 00:29:51,880 --> 00:29:53,760 Speaker 1: it going to get rid of all the evidence in 521 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:56,840 Speaker 1: a murder case. People might think it will, But fire 522 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,920 Speaker 1: is not that good at doing that. No, it can 523 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,640 Speaker 1: be successful in making it difficult or impossible, or to 524 00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:08,240 Speaker 1: destroy evidence that in and of itself won't stop law 525 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:12,600 Speaker 1: enforcements from solving a crime. Hopefully you've got other leads, 526 00:30:12,680 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 1: other informants in the community, other ways you can follow 527 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 1: to help you still solve the crime. But will it 528 00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:22,480 Speaker 1: destroy physical evidence? Of course it will. You've got to 529 00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: get people out to talk to everyone that knows your victim. 530 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:29,000 Speaker 1: You've got to do a complete victimology. You've got to 531 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,240 Speaker 1: go back into the victim's background. Who are their friends, 532 00:30:32,320 --> 00:30:34,880 Speaker 1: who are their enemies, who are their cousins, who just 533 00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:37,920 Speaker 1: got out of prison. You've got to start with a 534 00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:43,160 Speaker 1: real big circle and work that circle inward, and usually 535 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: statistics will bear out that usually a murder victim knows 536 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,160 Speaker 1: the murder. So you've got to look first off at 537 00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:54,920 Speaker 1: everyone that knows knows your victims. Once you get your 538 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: victims identified, you've got to start looking at everyone they 539 00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,360 Speaker 1: have contact with, everyone that may have a reason or 540 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:05,800 Speaker 1: may have fabricated a reason to commit a murder case, 541 00:31:06,600 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: and you work outwards from there. You've got to start somewhere. 542 00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:14,080 Speaker 1: Those first few hours of talking to people, when you 543 00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 1: can get them when they're emotional, when you can get 544 00:31:16,160 --> 00:31:18,440 Speaker 1: them when they're willing to talk to you, are so 545 00:31:18,720 --> 00:31:21,840 Speaker 1: vitally important in a case like that. I asked him 546 00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:24,840 Speaker 1: about how important it was to establish a motive in 547 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,720 Speaker 1: a crime like this. Ultimately, you want that motive to 548 00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:32,840 Speaker 1: show a jury why this person was murdered. A jury 549 00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:37,280 Speaker 1: of ordinary people sitting there in a jury box hearing 550 00:31:37,400 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: only what evidence they're allowed to hear. They want to 551 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:43,120 Speaker 1: know why this happened. They want to know the under 552 00:31:43,560 --> 00:31:47,520 Speaker 1: underlying reason for that crime. And ultimately, although it is 553 00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:49,960 Speaker 1: not an element of the crime, and you're right, we 554 00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,520 Speaker 1: don't have to prove motive, it is good when we 555 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:56,840 Speaker 1: can prove motive. Not only does it help you work 556 00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:01,520 Speaker 1: towards suspects, but a jury he wants that information. The 557 00:32:01,640 --> 00:32:04,200 Speaker 1: jury that doesn't have a motive is gonna sit back 558 00:32:04,240 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: in that jury room and you're gonna have a hard 559 00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:08,480 Speaker 1: time getting a conviction. You want to be able to 560 00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:10,959 Speaker 1: put your suspect in the area of the victim at 561 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,400 Speaker 1: the time of the crime. There's so many different ways 562 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,200 Speaker 1: to do that. Now with technology. You can do it 563 00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:17,840 Speaker 1: with the phone, you can do it with surveillance cameras, 564 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:21,600 Speaker 1: and you do with our witnesses. In a small town 565 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,400 Speaker 1: like the town I live in, people know each other. 566 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:29,560 Speaker 1: People will recognize somebody's truck, somebody's car, particularly when you 567 00:32:29,640 --> 00:32:31,920 Speaker 1: live in a rural area. I mean, everybody knows what 568 00:32:32,040 --> 00:32:35,320 Speaker 1: everybody else drives. They know when a car doesn't belong 569 00:32:35,440 --> 00:32:38,960 Speaker 1: down there. So but you've got to get that information early. 570 00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:41,400 Speaker 1: If you can't wait ten years to get that information, 571 00:32:41,520 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: you want that information while it's fresh, while it's actionable, 572 00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: and while there's something you can do with it. I 573 00:32:48,120 --> 00:32:51,000 Speaker 1: asked him how he felt about dealing with outside agencies 574 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: during his investigations. Was it helpful or was it more 575 00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,800 Speaker 1: detrimental to the case. I've got a lot of feelings 576 00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:00,600 Speaker 1: about bringing in outside agencies. Sometimes you really do need 577 00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:03,360 Speaker 1: to bring in an outside agency. But if you're gonna 578 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:06,400 Speaker 1: bring in an outside agency, in my opinion, in my 579 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:10,960 Speaker 1: agency where I work in my sheriff's office, you've got 580 00:33:11,080 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 1: to have a very specific mission for them bringing in 581 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,480 Speaker 1: an outside agency, so you have more people drinking coffee 582 00:33:18,560 --> 00:33:21,840 Speaker 1: saying now what we do isn't going to help anybody. 583 00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:25,320 Speaker 1: They've got to have a very specific mission. As a 584 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,520 Speaker 1: law enforcement leader, as the sheriff, I want them to 585 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:34,480 Speaker 1: have a very specific mission. Don't turn over anything to them. 586 00:33:34,720 --> 00:33:38,800 Speaker 1: We have something for them to do. We don't turn 587 00:33:38,920 --> 00:33:42,200 Speaker 1: over the responsibility for actively work in that case to 588 00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 1: another agency. Another agency comes in to assist us, if 589 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:49,760 Speaker 1: there's nothing for them to assist us doing, then we 590 00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:53,600 Speaker 1: don't need them there. We take responsibility for our cases 591 00:33:53,720 --> 00:33:56,680 Speaker 1: I'm the sheriff of Olconi County. I was elected to 592 00:33:56,720 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 1: work these cases. I was elected to keep the people safe. 593 00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,800 Speaker 1: It's my constitutional duty, it's my responsibility, and I don't 594 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,120 Speaker 1: delegate that to any other agency. I never turn a 595 00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,480 Speaker 1: case over to another agency. I never will, never have, 596 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,719 Speaker 1: and that's just not gonna happen. I have a hard 597 00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:19,239 Speaker 1: time even thinking of a reason why somebody would do that. Obviously, 598 00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:22,319 Speaker 1: if you have a case, if a sheriff is given 599 00:34:22,360 --> 00:34:26,239 Speaker 1: a case that involves a county commissioner or someone they 600 00:34:26,280 --> 00:34:29,640 Speaker 1: have to do business with a regular basis, they may 601 00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,040 Speaker 1: turn that over to another agency. There may be some 602 00:34:33,200 --> 00:34:36,200 Speaker 1: other political reason why you want to turn a case over. 603 00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,239 Speaker 1: If you don't think it's solvable, or and you want 604 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,160 Speaker 1: to have somebody to shift the blame to. You can 605 00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 1: all say listen, I call the g b I. They 606 00:34:44,200 --> 00:34:47,560 Speaker 1: can't solve a case either, and that gives a chief 607 00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:51,600 Speaker 1: or share of some political cover. I can see circumstances 608 00:34:51,680 --> 00:34:54,320 Speaker 1: where you'd have a parallel investigation with the g B. 609 00:34:54,480 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: I I'd have to be faced with that circumstance, but 610 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:00,360 Speaker 1: I would take the lead in that investigation, would be 611 00:35:00,480 --> 00:35:03,600 Speaker 1: responsible for that investigation. I might with the g b 612 00:35:03,719 --> 00:35:06,640 Speaker 1: I come in and help me with that. But again, 613 00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:09,920 Speaker 1: a case like that in my county, I think that 614 00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: we would be more likely to solve it than the 615 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,360 Speaker 1: g b I would because we know the people that 616 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:17,120 Speaker 1: live here. I have ninety five employees. At least one 617 00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,040 Speaker 1: of them knows the victim. It would be impossible for 618 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,279 Speaker 1: me to have a case like that where no one 619 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:25,640 Speaker 1: that worked for me didn't know any of the victims 620 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:27,920 Speaker 1: or their family. You bring the g b I in 621 00:35:28,080 --> 00:35:32,319 Speaker 1: for a very specific reason, and not to hand them 622 00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,279 Speaker 1: the case file. Traditionally, a lot of people that are 623 00:35:35,320 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 1: talked to a deputy shaff or to the sheriff someone 624 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:41,520 Speaker 1: they know, won't talk to somebody they don't know. Won't 625 00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:44,560 Speaker 1: talk to somebody that flashes the state badge or a 626 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:47,480 Speaker 1: federal badge. Some people are just funny about who they 627 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:49,840 Speaker 1: talked to, and they want to talk to their sheriff. 628 00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,560 Speaker 1: They know the sheriff, They elected the sheriff, maybe they 629 00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:56,319 Speaker 1: ran against them, maybe they voted against him, but they 630 00:35:56,400 --> 00:35:58,920 Speaker 1: still know him, and they're gonna talk to one of 631 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,279 Speaker 1: these local deputies as from one of these local peace 632 00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:04,640 Speaker 1: officers who live in that county who they see at church. 633 00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:07,920 Speaker 1: Who they see at the grocery store, they're gonna want 634 00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:11,080 Speaker 1: to talk to them, not an employee from somewhere else. 635 00:36:11,840 --> 00:36:14,239 Speaker 1: I have ninety five total employees, and I think the 636 00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:18,240 Speaker 1: gb I has about a hundred and fifty hundred, sixty 637 00:36:18,680 --> 00:36:22,479 Speaker 1: hundred seventy agents that are working statewide. Now that doesn't 638 00:36:22,520 --> 00:36:27,440 Speaker 1: include support staff, their g c I s, their computer people, 639 00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: doesn't include a lot of things. But that includes agents. 640 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: I don't think they have any more than that. If 641 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:35,040 Speaker 1: they have any more than that, and it's just not 642 00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:37,800 Speaker 1: a big agency, they don't have a lot of people 643 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,600 Speaker 1: to throw it a problem. Okay, So if you're a 644 00:36:41,160 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: local sheriff and you don't have a especially trained arson 645 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,640 Speaker 1: investigator either in your office or in your local fire department, 646 00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:53,279 Speaker 1: you'd bring in the fire marshal for that service. Correct, Yes, 647 00:36:53,719 --> 00:36:56,200 Speaker 1: we bring in the state fire marshal for that. Why 648 00:36:56,280 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 1: wouldn't you bring in the gb I to do an 649 00:36:58,080 --> 00:37:02,480 Speaker 1: arson investigation? The state Fire Marshal is equipped and trained 650 00:37:02,560 --> 00:37:05,040 Speaker 1: to do this. He can come to the scene and 651 00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:07,960 Speaker 1: you know rather instantly whether or not you've got an 652 00:37:08,080 --> 00:37:10,759 Speaker 1: arson or not. They're good at it. The work they've 653 00:37:10,800 --> 00:37:14,759 Speaker 1: done for us is phenomenal. It's quick, it's efficient, they 654 00:37:14,880 --> 00:37:17,360 Speaker 1: show up, they do what they need to do, and 655 00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,680 Speaker 1: we've been really pleased with the services we get from 656 00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:23,319 Speaker 1: the state Fire Marshal. Again, there aren't many of them either, 657 00:37:23,840 --> 00:37:26,960 Speaker 1: but we're lucky to be able to get one pretty quickly. Now, 658 00:37:27,719 --> 00:37:30,160 Speaker 1: if we determine we have an arsen, we would make 659 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,239 Speaker 1: the decision at that point whether we want the gb 660 00:37:33,360 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: I crime scene people to come collect evidence to prove 661 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,120 Speaker 1: the arson. Again, we're talking about a very specific mission 662 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,760 Speaker 1: for the g b I. I'm not picked just picking 663 00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 1: up this is any kind of outside agency. Again, I 664 00:37:46,840 --> 00:37:49,719 Speaker 1: accepted the responsibility when I put my name on the 665 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:52,520 Speaker 1: ballot to be the sheriff of Oakony, Kim and with 666 00:37:52,760 --> 00:37:56,280 Speaker 1: that came the duty and the authority and the responsibility 667 00:37:57,000 --> 00:38:00,880 Speaker 1: for me to take these cases to their life coal conclusion. 668 00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:04,280 Speaker 1: I can ask for help for the FBI, the GBI, 669 00:38:04,480 --> 00:38:08,440 Speaker 1: the state Patrol, the game Warden, the fire Marshal, the 670 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:13,120 Speaker 1: corner the medical examiner, the Department Corrections. I could ask 671 00:38:13,160 --> 00:38:16,120 Speaker 1: for help from any number of our state partners, but 672 00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 1: I never relinquish a case that belongs to the old 673 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:25,120 Speaker 1: County County Sheriff's office. I would definitely need the assistance 674 00:38:25,160 --> 00:38:28,160 Speaker 1: to work a crime scene where you have a homicide, 675 00:38:28,280 --> 00:38:30,960 Speaker 1: There's no question in my mind, I would definitely need 676 00:38:31,120 --> 00:38:34,240 Speaker 1: somebody to come in and help me work that crime scene. 677 00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:37,520 Speaker 1: I'm fortunate now that I have my own crime scene tech. 678 00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,279 Speaker 1: But the g b I has always done a great 679 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,120 Speaker 1: job working crime scenes, and they've done it all over 680 00:38:44,200 --> 00:38:45,719 Speaker 1: the state of Georgia, and they've done it for me 681 00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:49,319 Speaker 1: many times. That's the value of working the crime scene. 682 00:38:49,360 --> 00:38:51,960 Speaker 1: You only get one chance to do it right, and 683 00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:53,719 Speaker 1: you want to make sure when you do it, you 684 00:38:53,840 --> 00:38:57,200 Speaker 1: do it right. The local agency, the local deputies of 685 00:38:57,280 --> 00:39:00,600 Speaker 1: local police, they know their community. They most of them 686 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,440 Speaker 1: probably grew up there. They know somebody that knows the victims, 687 00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: they know somebody that may know the suspect. And people 688 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:10,960 Speaker 1: are willing to talk to people they know and trust, 689 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:16,520 Speaker 1: where they're just not gonna talk to outsiders that come in. 690 00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:18,800 Speaker 1: You know they're gonna stay for a few days and 691 00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,799 Speaker 1: then drive off and wave again onto their next big case. 692 00:39:22,360 --> 00:39:24,719 Speaker 1: There's a lot of different ways you can work that case, 693 00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:27,719 Speaker 1: but you don't quit. That's what you don't do. You 694 00:39:27,840 --> 00:39:30,680 Speaker 1: don't quit. You want to get that case. You get 695 00:39:30,719 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: it back out. You look at it and get a 696 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,080 Speaker 1: fresh settlevi eyes on it, look at that evidence, all 697 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,160 Speaker 1: that evidence in a new light, and go back and 698 00:39:39,200 --> 00:39:42,799 Speaker 1: do those interviews again. Go back and find out, Hey, 699 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,839 Speaker 1: you know, we tried to talk to this guy three 700 00:39:44,960 --> 00:39:47,719 Speaker 1: tons and know what ever actually talked to him. Well, 701 00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,360 Speaker 1: let's go talk to him. There's gonna be something in 702 00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:53,200 Speaker 1: that case file that's been missed, and you've got to 703 00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 1: go back and follow up on that, because they might 704 00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:57,960 Speaker 1: not call you with what they were told a year ago, 705 00:39:58,360 --> 00:40:00,520 Speaker 1: but if you go and ask them, they might tell 706 00:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,239 Speaker 1: you they heard something at the beauty parlor in a 707 00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:23,720 Speaker 1: year ago that might help you solve that cutty thank 708 00:40:23,760 --> 00:40:40,600 Speaker 1: you wearing which table? Okay? Walker's Barbecue Pet is a long, 709 00:40:40,760 --> 00:40:44,680 Speaker 1: narrow barbecue joint in Sycamore, Georgia, right off the railroad tracks. 710 00:40:46,080 --> 00:40:48,600 Speaker 1: We visited after lunchtime. There was no one inside, but 711 00:40:48,680 --> 00:40:50,320 Speaker 1: the TV in the corner played an old black and 712 00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:54,120 Speaker 1: white film. A man named Frosty greeted us, I don't 713 00:40:54,160 --> 00:40:57,480 Speaker 1: know what I'm Earlier in the week, I'd called Frosty 714 00:40:57,600 --> 00:41:00,359 Speaker 1: to ask if we could speak to him. Been told 715 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: he was a local and a family friend that might 716 00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:05,279 Speaker 1: be willing to talk to us about the case I 717 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:09,480 Speaker 1: might happen if there were none Once frosting, this is 718 00:41:09,560 --> 00:41:14,840 Speaker 1: what was barbeque was sitting more Georgian and I was 719 00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:19,520 Speaker 1: born raised him. I've been knowing he's a new devil 720 00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: of all her life. She drew up. We lived next ord. 721 00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:26,040 Speaker 1: These little they've been knowing Tom Joe since he's part 722 00:41:26,040 --> 00:41:32,040 Speaker 1: of six team, and I knew what's the understand the 723 00:41:32,160 --> 00:41:37,160 Speaker 1: daughter Melissa, Melissa all her life we had a place 724 00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,880 Speaker 1: in Firdam that they had a place of Firndon. She 725 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,000 Speaker 1: always come over and see was we've been knowing. We're 726 00:41:45,080 --> 00:41:47,839 Speaker 1: really good friends. And that's base. I want to tell 727 00:41:47,880 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: you that was well, h I mean, they were real 728 00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,320 Speaker 1: friend they'd like to go out and eat and go 729 00:41:56,440 --> 00:42:00,040 Speaker 1: to parties and stuff like that. That was while on 730 00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:05,560 Speaker 1: means and to go to Ferndon. Fernandina Beach is in 731 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,359 Speaker 1: Florida where Tommy Joe Wideman's mother had a house. That's 732 00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:11,360 Speaker 1: where she was the night they were killed. Was that 733 00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:14,640 Speaker 1: inside cooking that part of four or five o'clock in 734 00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:17,760 Speaker 1: the morning. And my wife was real with their friends 735 00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:21,239 Speaker 1: with Tommy Joe. She's passed away and she called me 736 00:42:22,280 --> 00:42:24,959 Speaker 1: and she would really, I said, I think I said 737 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:29,920 Speaker 1: the whole everybody and then not finding night who done it? 738 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:33,839 Speaker 1: Why It's hard to believe somebody was just coming by 739 00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 1: and done that. Whoever done it had it planning and 740 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:40,640 Speaker 1: for some reason, I do not know. People told about 741 00:42:40,680 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: all the time. They ain't went away at all. I 742 00:42:44,760 --> 00:42:46,680 Speaker 1: mean he might go a month from not hearing it. 743 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:51,239 Speaker 1: You hit it's more but Frost, he said, conflicted with 744 00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:53,800 Speaker 1: what we've been told at the Wiregrass. It seemed that 745 00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:55,520 Speaker 1: some portion of the town may have wanted to move 746 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,279 Speaker 1: on from the tragedy, but others simply couldn't let it go. 747 00:42:58,600 --> 00:43:01,520 Speaker 1: We talked to the sriff, all three sure about it. 748 00:43:02,239 --> 00:43:05,279 Speaker 1: They've been three sure since it's happened. They don't say much, 749 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,200 Speaker 1: they said, I don't know, We're weren't on. We all 750 00:43:08,280 --> 00:43:13,560 Speaker 1: know no more than what we do. Devil's family has 751 00:43:13,640 --> 00:43:18,319 Speaker 1: been trying hard to find out. There's no telling how 752 00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:25,319 Speaker 1: much money it's been, trying to find hard vasticators, going 753 00:43:25,400 --> 00:43:28,960 Speaker 1: around talking to people like Yah, Horror, that's a person 754 00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:32,920 Speaker 1: you need to talk to. He told us that he's 755 00:43:32,920 --> 00:43:37,320 Speaker 1: still alive and last he knew living in Fitzgerald. He 756 00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,479 Speaker 1: has tried hard, he can tell he part of sitting 757 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,960 Speaker 1: and talking to you for two of their hours. We 758 00:43:44,080 --> 00:43:46,360 Speaker 1: then asked Frosty about the family members alive on the 759 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:53,319 Speaker 1: Wyman's side. His problem. His wife Dan Wyman seesusly were 760 00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:56,480 Speaker 1: opened random mine. I don't know charge him? Were that good? 761 00:43:57,280 --> 00:44:00,840 Speaker 1: And there's a nephew and now few he's referring to 762 00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:05,200 Speaker 1: is Charles Henry Wideman, also known as Chip. His father 763 00:44:05,280 --> 00:44:09,840 Speaker 1: was Tommy Joe's brother. Somebody somebody done it. One person, 764 00:44:10,560 --> 00:44:16,320 Speaker 1: three people pour. We tried reaching out to Chip but 765 00:44:16,400 --> 00:44:23,200 Speaker 1: got no answer. Next time, Solar players in other one 766 00:44:23,280 --> 00:44:25,960 Speaker 1: county get bowled off in turn of County get killed off. 767 00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,440 Speaker 1: We've learned a lot about how this case appeared in 768 00:44:36,480 --> 00:44:39,400 Speaker 1: the public eye, and we've learned a little bit about 769 00:44:39,440 --> 00:44:41,839 Speaker 1: how it was handled. And more than one person has 770 00:44:41,880 --> 00:44:44,760 Speaker 1: told us that the scene seemed to have been cleared 771 00:44:45,080 --> 00:44:49,200 Speaker 1: very quickly. We'll continue our investigation by getting to the 772 00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:54,160 Speaker 1: center of local Turner County law enforcement. We'll also talk 773 00:44:54,239 --> 00:44:56,759 Speaker 1: to someone that, besides the g B, I may know 774 00:44:56,960 --> 00:45:00,560 Speaker 1: this case the best. Next time on Soorn