Speaker 1: Of the Law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 2: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 2: vicious felonies.
Speaker 3: These episodes are based.
Speaker 4: On these are our stories done done.
Speaker 3: Yay, that's messed up. An sv podcast.
Speaker 1: I'm Liza Traeger and I'm Kara Klink and it's sv recaps,
Speaker 1: true crime, deep dives, interviews, chats, the whole thing, and.
Speaker 2: We're the time machine. And yesterday the NIXT won the
Speaker 2: first game, so oh that's where we're damn yeah. And
Speaker 2: it was I had spots and stuff and I was
Speaker 2: running around, so I only caught bits and pieces, but
Speaker 2: I got to watch like the last like ten minutes
Speaker 2: of the fourth quarter, and there's nothing better than fourth
Speaker 2: quarter basketball, like anything can happen. And it was such
Speaker 2: a close game and it was electric. And then I
Speaker 2: think it was the spurs and experience in young age
Speaker 2: that led to them falling apart by the end.
Speaker 3: They couldn't keep it together. But that's just my you know, is.
Speaker 1: This like they play and each other, they do home
Speaker 1: and away, right, yeah.
Speaker 2: Then will be spurs and then so this is what
Speaker 2: I keep thinking about because Mauricia we'll see.
Speaker 3: Well by this you'll know.
Speaker 2: But like Marishka, you know, she's big Nicks and Jalen
Speaker 2: Brunson hugs her every game she's there, and Ben Stiller
Speaker 2: and all the other fans are very jealous. But she's
Speaker 2: on Broadway. What's gonna happen? But the next game is Monday,
Speaker 2: so that means she's off of Broadway. So I do
Speaker 2: wonder if Marishka on her night off is going to
Speaker 2: go to the.
Speaker 3: Next game or not.
Speaker 1: I think for I know, I know, I know, but well,
Speaker 1: I don't know. She can't scream, That's what I mean. Well,
Speaker 1: she's not singing, but yeah, like that's what I mean.
Speaker 1: Like it's like such a tough schedule, but she's when
Speaker 1: I you see, I bet he was actually equal to Broadway.
Speaker 1: When I went to see Kumail and Jinks on Oh Mary,
Speaker 1: they were both wearing buttons that said I'm on vocal
Speaker 1: rest because just I think even doing that much if
Speaker 1: I don't know, I don't know the play, I don't
Speaker 1: know if she yells at all, or I think Jinks.
Speaker 2: Didn't want to talk to everyone in the line waiting
Speaker 2: to see her. I think that's the button. I think
Speaker 2: that's why. Well, I think that's why she was wearing
Speaker 2: the button.
Speaker 1: Kumail was truly losing his voice and was like, Jinx
Speaker 1: is the one that told me about the button.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because when I got you know, I saw Jinks
Speaker 2: and the Pirates of Peasants and she had the button.
Speaker 3: Yeah. I mean, but the amount of people meet Jinx
Speaker 3: was insane.
Speaker 2: I would say, like at least fifty people waited at
Speaker 2: stage door and we hung out in her green room
Speaker 2: for like a good twenty minutes before she even went
Speaker 2: to I mean, people would wait that long. But I'm
Speaker 2: just saying tons of people were there. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: ready for her. She's the best.
Speaker 1: I'm getting the reviews from some of our listeners about
Speaker 1: every brilliant thing. Okay, most of them are saying that
Speaker 1: she's great and it's great. I mean one person was
Speaker 1: like I loved seeing her, but like they didn't.
Speaker 3: I know, I think a lot. I don't know. I
Speaker 3: think some people have a hard time seeing her outside
Speaker 3: of like Benson, I am gonna go.
Speaker 2: You know, I jumped the gun and bought the Mateo
Speaker 2: Chicago tickets, but I got a schedule of Benson.
Speaker 3: Are you going to see Matteo like.
Speaker 1: Opening night, you're like a little bit in oh, well,
Speaker 1: opening night, but I'll go again because like people started
Speaker 1: texting me immediately being like we gotta go, we gotta go,
Speaker 1: and it's like, honey, I bought tickets before it was announced, obviously,
Speaker 1: but I will probably go a few times. And I
Speaker 1: learned that because I saw Bette Midler previews for Hello Dolly,
Speaker 1: and then I went towards the end and it was
Speaker 1: like fully different performances, really one hundred percent. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I I would, you know, it's a four week run,
Speaker 1: so I would definitely go at least twice.
Speaker 3: But I gotta get my Maurshia in for sure. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: But the city was like electric. Everyone had cool outfits
Speaker 2: everyone's and knick scares. Even places like Union Hall had
Speaker 2: the projector down like places that don't aren't sports places.
Speaker 2: My coffee shop I saw this morning the TV was
Speaker 2: covered and I go, did you guys watch the next
Speaker 2: last night? And like every yeah, it's like every you know,
Speaker 2: and everyone at the counter started chatting.
Speaker 3: It's just such a fun moment to be a part of.
Speaker 1: That because yeah, they because they don't get in that often,
Speaker 1: like when it's the Yankees. I feel like people care,
Speaker 1: but it's like it happens all the time, right, Like
Speaker 1: the Knicks.
Speaker 3: Well, Casey, we're talking about this. I saw ven before
Speaker 3: you hopped on.
Speaker 2: I saw vendiagram online and it was like, you know, Giants, Jets,
Speaker 2: Yankees sets, all of those teams of the hockey teams,
Speaker 2: all of them come together for the Knicks. So it's
Speaker 2: like you get all the fandom's hardcore psychotic energy for
Speaker 2: this team that are usually splintered off between the others.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I would say Marishka is the most MVP star
Speaker 1: fan there that they like that that they pay attend.
Speaker 1: I see the Marishka Jalen coverage a lot. Well it
Speaker 1: might be your algorithm as well, but it's it's bent.
Speaker 1: But this happens to you all the time. I'm like, wow,
Speaker 1: everyone's talking about it. I'm like I follow this.
Speaker 3: No one is.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: I would say like Spike Lee is probably the most
Speaker 2: like long time right, like he's she's like forty to
Speaker 2: be a big one. Now he's la Oh, he's la.
Speaker 1: He's the like stories the part of me I just
Speaker 1: think of basketball people. But yeah, still but still her
Speaker 1: at an interview where like they're all jealous of Marishka
Speaker 1: because they they want to hug, like the players love Marishka. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so she gets there, she has a night off.
Speaker 3: I think she's got to be there.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's because I do think she has eighty grand
Speaker 2: I think they love Tracy Moore, but she's the only
Speaker 2: one that gets the hugs.
Speaker 3: Yeah. But there's an old.
Speaker 2: Interview where, like with Shack, they were like, have you
Speaker 2: ever been like starting he said halle Berry. He was
Speaker 2: trying to impress halle Berry, like he was like, give
Speaker 2: me the ball, you know, like they're trying.
Speaker 3: To pick people up. They're fucking athletes.
Speaker 2: But I had I did something I've never done before
Speaker 2: yesterday on stage. So I'm at New York Comedy Cup
Speaker 2: and I've done I've been doing this since two thousand
Speaker 2: and nine, like whatever. But about halfway through my set,
Speaker 2: I went, you know what, guys, this isn't worth my
Speaker 2: time and I don't want to make any of you laugh.
Speaker 2: I'm leaving. And I was like, can you grab the host.
Speaker 2: I'm not finishing my time. I don't have to get paid.
Speaker 2: I'm like, I don't like any of.
Speaker 3: You, bye, And so I just left.
Speaker 2: I left and then the host all the young comedians
Speaker 2: were stressed, but it was one big group. And then
Speaker 2: they left on the way out there like I've never
Speaker 2: seen such weak comedia. Like they were like one guy
Speaker 2: touched me. I was like, get the fuck off me,
Speaker 2: Like I.
Speaker 1: This is this New York comedy club still the one
Speaker 1: that's like on twenty third and second, but it's on
Speaker 1: twenty fourth.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah yeah, so what was up? What was up?
Speaker 2: They just said no respect, like, and I knew they
Speaker 2: weren't going to be good. I'm also like, I don't
Speaker 2: care if there's four people because then my next show
Speaker 2: is nine people. They think like I nothing, I've been
Speaker 2: threatening out to people numbers.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I can have fun. I could figure it out.
Speaker 2: But it's like they just they didn't like the bits,
Speaker 2: they didn't like the crowd or I couldn't get things going.
Speaker 2: And then they also were rude. So one girl goes,
Speaker 2: why don't you just start singing Pink Pony Club? That
Speaker 2: might help, Like that's psychotic to me. And then one
Speaker 2: person said they're from Phoenix, and someone's like, I'm from Phoenix,
Speaker 2: and then they started talking about Phoenix and then one
Speaker 2: young guy was like, is that a bitcoin tattoo and
Speaker 2: start talking about bitcoin in the day, and.
Speaker 3: I go, you know what, fuck all of you.
Speaker 2: I'm like more talented than any of this, and I
Speaker 2: don't need this.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I just like left, my God.
Speaker 2: So this big drunk group left that everyone hated, and
Speaker 2: then they kept whispering and talking, and then I told
Speaker 2: one woman, I'm like, you're a fucking horrible person, and
Speaker 2: someone's like, why would you say that. I'm like, well,
Speaker 2: there's clearly a woman bombing on stage, and you guys
Speaker 2: keep interrupting me and telling me to carry Okay, I
Speaker 2: don't know. Again, not the worst because when everyone's like
Speaker 2: what happened? What happened? I go, truly not nothing that
Speaker 2: much crazy, Like I just it wasn't worth my energy.
Speaker 3: I couldn't do it. I didn't want to do it.
Speaker 2: Yeah, So then everyone leaves, But then I felt bad,
Speaker 2: so I obviously overtipped the server, like I don't want
Speaker 2: to fuck everyone else over than the other comics, like
Speaker 2: people weren't there. But then that big group left and
Speaker 2: the vibes changed and the next person was having a
Speaker 2: great set. So then they're like, well, you just go
Speaker 2: back up. So I did go back up and I
Speaker 2: had fun.
Speaker 3: I had time.
Speaker 2: So then I had like a great time and it
Speaker 2: was fine that they were dry, like the vibes were better.
Speaker 2: And then I had another set at the other New
Speaker 2: York comedy club location on East fourth Street and had
Speaker 2: like the time of my life, and so then it
Speaker 2: was a great comedy night. But yeah, I just left
Speaker 2: and I apologize to the manager. I was like, you
Speaker 2: guys don't have to pay me, give it to the servers,
Speaker 2: like whatever. And then I'm like, never mind.
Speaker 3: I went back up now, I'll take my money now.
Speaker 2: But wow, I wasn't having it. And then when they
Speaker 2: were interrupting being crazy, I was like fine. And then
Speaker 2: the fourth Street location, the vibes were just so good
Speaker 2: and it was less than nine people.
Speaker 1: It was three this couple, this couple. Yeah, like eight people. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. It's like it's totally yeah. Sometimes at
Speaker 1: my show the huge crowds are sucking the small crowds
Speaker 1: of the bus.
Speaker 2: But like, but there's always that, because this happened in
Speaker 2: Sacramento once, where this guy's energy in front was so menacing.
Speaker 2: He was kind of like the classic husband who didn't
Speaker 2: want to be there, but I did I don't want
Speaker 2: to perform for you, so I said, you need to leave.
Speaker 2: I'm like, you're in the front, like I don't need
Speaker 2: your energy ruining my vibes. And then everyone was like,
Speaker 2: what did you do?
Speaker 3: What did you do?
Speaker 2: I go, nothing, this is what I do for fun,
Speaker 2: so like you're going to ruin it, Like I don't
Speaker 2: need this. I truly don't need this. But the younger
Speaker 2: like it did cause a commotion. I would say, but
Speaker 2: I didn't regret it in my soul. I'm like, I
Speaker 2: don't regret it. I don't know what to tell you,
Speaker 2: but I have never done it. So kind of wild.
Speaker 3: There's still first in comedy after all these years.
Speaker 2: But then there's like a cutie couple. They seemed so young.
Speaker 2: I couldn't believe they were together for five years. But
Speaker 2: I think they were sauced because then one of the
Speaker 2: girls went, I put a finger in his butt and
Speaker 2: he likes it. And then I was like, okay, I
Speaker 2: reveal nabe and then he turned red. It was like
Speaker 2: really cute.
Speaker 3: It was fun gee Jesus, oh my god.
Speaker 2: And then at the second show I had three I
Speaker 2: did Kurt Broneler's show. You know, I saw him and Lauren,
Speaker 2: but one girl had all these orange sower patch kids left.
Speaker 3: I go, you don't like orange, She goes no, I go,
Speaker 3: I'll take them.
Speaker 2: So then I also got orange shower patch kids.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 3: What a night, What a night, What a night? Oh
Speaker 3: my gosh. Wait.
Speaker 1: So I know you're not like watching a ton of TV,
Speaker 1: but I have simultaneously been making my way through the
Speaker 1: last season of Hacks.
Speaker 3: But also I finished the Comeback.
Speaker 1: Oh nice, the comeback was really disappointed in the third season.
Speaker 1: I was really really bummed because I fucking love the
Speaker 1: first two seasons, but this the third season is just like,
Speaker 1: it's just not that funny. And they're also tackling AI,
Speaker 1: which I think is awesome, like because I'm what I'm
Speaker 1: gonna say, Like I was gonna say, they're Then Hacks
Speaker 1: did an episode about AI that I think they nailed,
Speaker 1: and so they did this whole season about AI with Valerie,
Speaker 1: and I was like, this is great, what a great idea.
Speaker 1: And then it's just like, wasn't funny at all And
Speaker 1: you're arguing in this episode. I mean, in this season,
Speaker 1: your argument is that TV has to be written by
Speaker 1: humans or it won't be good and then this season
Speaker 1: of TV is not good. That's like that sucks, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, I was talking about it with our friend
Speaker 1: Allison and she was like, yeah, like I feel like
Speaker 1: it's like their legacy is that if that's the final season,
Speaker 1: like they don't ever do another one.
Speaker 3: That's it just was they.
Speaker 1: Had They had John Early, I had like all these
Speaker 1: funny people, and they just like weren't putting them to work.
Speaker 3: It was crazy.
Speaker 1: But Hacks had a great fucking episode about it that
Speaker 1: was like more specific also to stand up and you know,
Speaker 1: like you do you watch Hacks, right, so.
Speaker 3: You're gonna do I have it?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna definitely watch this last season. You know,
Speaker 2: I'm in an in between moment with my relationship with television.
Speaker 2: But I watched one clip of like Hannah's character going
Speaker 2: off about AI where it's like, you don't even give
Speaker 2: us a choice because you know we would say no.
Speaker 2: So stop saying it's inevitable when you're making money and
Speaker 2: forcing it and we can't even say no to it.
Speaker 3: That's what that was. I love that.
Speaker 2: Oh well, when I fought the men at the coffee shop,
Speaker 2: that's what I said to them. I'm like, but you're
Speaker 2: there's no choice, yeah, because they know we don't want it.
Speaker 3: She calls it forced inevitability.
Speaker 1: Yes, And I think that's exactly what, like the way
Speaker 1: that they're like, it's here, get on the train, fuck off,
Speaker 1: Like nobody wants to get on the goddamn train. I
Speaker 1: mean maybe a few people do, but like not everybody.
Speaker 2: And keep I mean, I call the men, but it's like, yes, losers, losers,
Speaker 2: that's who wants it.
Speaker 3: Losers, losers, nerds. People who don't like that is rude.
Speaker 2: Like I did talk to one person who's like but
Speaker 2: for Adam, and it's like, okay, but it's not worth
Speaker 2: all of the It's not worth like people having brown water. Yeah,
Speaker 2: Like it's just I don't and like it's just not
Speaker 2: worth yeah, and like getting sick.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: They basically, you know, like the episode is called quick Scribble,
Speaker 1: which is the name of the app that wants Debra,
Speaker 1: and like they want her to basically use her comedy
Speaker 1: to make people's like bridesmaid speeches and eulogies and stuff
Speaker 1: like funnier with Ai or whatever. And she's kind of
Speaker 1: like down for it, and even Hannah like can't convince
Speaker 1: her and it's not until she like has a meeting
Speaker 1: with the guy and it's Alex Moffatt from the guy
Speaker 1: who used to play the guy who just bought a
Speaker 1: boat on SNL. Like he just plays that douchey vibe.
Speaker 1: He like is doing the final like moments of the
Speaker 1: sale with her, and he basically is just like telling her, yeah,
Speaker 1: like everyone's going to be on this, like your art
Speaker 1: is She she basically has to convince him like this
Speaker 1: is art and like the part of the process of
Speaker 1: making art is the journey to making it. The point
Speaker 1: of art is not to make it easily, you know.
Speaker 1: And that's when she realizes and so it's like, really good.
Speaker 1: I recommend I recommend the whole series. But I loved
Speaker 1: this episode. Our friend Joe Mandy wrote on it. I
Speaker 1: texted him and was like, this was a really good episode.
Speaker 2: I ran into someone who's like in a room right
Speaker 2: now with Joe Mandy and someone else.
Speaker 3: Cool.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he's he's really worked on like every funny show.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's a great, great writer.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's really it's it's like I don't even know
Speaker 2: how to describe his vibe because he's not a twerp,
Speaker 2: but like it's just like it's this like Nana Nana,
Speaker 2: you know, like he is he a Bucks fan?
Speaker 3: I think he's a Bucks or Timberwolves.
Speaker 1: I don't remember Timberwolves Minnesota, and I remember he's a
Speaker 1: big NBA Midwest person, but I forgot the team. But Casey,
Speaker 1: have you listened to his albums because he did one
Speaker 1: album from me that he makes like a bunch of
Speaker 1: jokes about Minnesota and he and Minneapolis and stuff.
Speaker 5: I think.
Speaker 3: And he's I think his stand up is really really
Speaker 3: funny too. Oh yeah, No, I love Joe Mandy. He's fantastic.
Speaker 2: We were just talking about what would you describe him?
Speaker 2: What's the better word than twerp?
Speaker 1: He is?
Speaker 3: I would say he is Well, he's like one of
Speaker 3: the original, true original troll real.
Speaker 1: On Twitter, he had like he was like he did
Speaker 1: this whole thing where he was really obsessed with Lacroix
Speaker 1: and he'd be like Lacroix boys, like and this was
Speaker 1: before everybody was drinking Lacroix, and he would like constantly
Speaker 1: he got he bought a million followers too. He was
Speaker 1: like the first person to buy a million followers, and
Speaker 1: he would like proudly be like I bought a million followers,
Speaker 1: and yeah, he's just but he's like a He's not
Speaker 1: like a shitty trolls.
Speaker 2: He loves his pets. He's like, I'm obsessed.
Speaker 6: He's like an Internet professor because he'll post from the
Speaker 6: Internet where I'm like, where are you finding these things?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 6: Because truly am like disturbed by the things he like
Speaker 6: does discovers in his research on the Internet.
Speaker 3: Like I feel that way about John Hill too.
Speaker 1: Sometimes John Hill will post a carousel and I'll just
Speaker 1: write him and go, what the fuck is this stuff?
Speaker 3: Like where do you find this? Like, oh my god?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but but Joe is Yeah, we were just talking.
Speaker 1: I was just talking about one of his bits last
Speaker 1: night at my show because I was talking about Sue
Speaker 1: Plantation with someone because there's used to be a place
Speaker 1: in LA called.
Speaker 2: Soup, which in the Midwest where I'm from is called
Speaker 2: sweet Tomato. So there are ways to have a better name. Yes,
Speaker 2: But have I been to the soup plantation that recently
Speaker 2: closed in La.
Speaker 3: I've been there. I saw weird out there. Dude.
Speaker 1: I have to say, I like this is my subway
Speaker 1: take bring back restaurants that just offer ten kinds of soup.
Speaker 1: I love soup places, and they're going away, and I
Speaker 1: understand that the overhead is probably not worth the sales.
Speaker 2: If you're just sup Plantation at everything, I thought you
Speaker 2: were gonna take it, like, give.
Speaker 3: Me a buffet of every I want. Salad.
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, no, no, that's soup. Plantation had salad, pizza,
Speaker 1: They had a lot of stuff. I just liked any
Speaker 1: place that offered more than just like we have our
Speaker 1: two soups of the day.
Speaker 2: I just like a lot of varieties of soups. You
Speaker 2: got to know that Little Poland next timmer in town.
Speaker 2: I can go to Little Poland. Okay, I don't know
Speaker 2: about what their ve veg.
Speaker 5: I know.
Speaker 3: I will say.
Speaker 1: One of my meal kid services has been I've been
Speaker 1: getting this parogi soup that I've been making.
Speaker 3: I'm into Parogi's now. I really love.
Speaker 2: It's actually like a food made for you. I mean,
Speaker 2: like a potato filled noodle.
Speaker 1: I think I had a bad parogi like the first
Speaker 1: time once and was like I don't like this, And
Speaker 1: now I'm like, I think I just got a bad one,
Speaker 1: so I gotta get back. I gotta get back at
Speaker 1: a potato ravioli. I mean, come on, I love it
Speaker 1: some grilled onions.
Speaker 2: I mean, because I know The Good Place was obviously
Speaker 2: a huge success and like lasted forever. But I was
Speaker 2: on the ground floor, like I watched from episode like
Speaker 2: I loved it, and I remember that's when I met
Speaker 2: Joe Mandy and I think, and you know, everyone likes
Speaker 2: to be compl and I just was asking such specific
Speaker 2: crazy questions like knew everything, and I just.
Speaker 3: It was I was performing.
Speaker 2: This was twenty six or January twenty seventeen, because Trump
Speaker 2: had just taken office night a weekend in DC. I
Speaker 2: remember that, Yeah, because then my opener, who was an
Speaker 2: old friend of mine, started saying the most crazy racist
Speaker 2: stuff ever. And that's when our friendship ended. Oh shit, yeah,
Speaker 2: we like shared a hotel. He was like being insane,
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's like a weekend, I remember, Damn. So
Speaker 2: I was talking to a friend whose younger sister like
Speaker 2: came to visit and was like, oh my god, I
Speaker 2: want to go to my favorite restaurant I was there
Speaker 2: last time, Like could we please go to my favorite
Speaker 2: restaurant in New York And he was like yeah, of course.
Speaker 2: You know he's always planning, and he's like, Okay, we'll
Speaker 2: go wherever, and it was in Chelsea Market and he's like,
Speaker 2: you don't remember the name. She goes, I don't remember
Speaker 2: the name. He's like, but if I take you to
Speaker 2: Chelsea Market, you'll find it. She goes, yeah, I'll be
Speaker 2: able to find it. And it was like Hurth and Harty.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, you wanted to kill her. I used
Speaker 2: to go to Heurth and Hardy. Sure, but you would
Speaker 2: never visit Hardy yeah, and be like, this is my
Speaker 2: favorite restaurant.
Speaker 3: Never.
Speaker 1: But it was a place that was like multiple soups,
Speaker 1: you know, I think, honestly, we've talked about it on
Speaker 1: the podcast already. Cozy. I miss Cozy's tomato soup. I
Speaker 1: loved Cozy.
Speaker 3: I like the bread.
Speaker 2: I like the bread to be salty, gorgeous, bread, so good.
Speaker 2: I would get the Hummus veggie at Cozy. I would
Speaker 2: bring it into the movies because it was by that
Speaker 2: the Regal or AMC and Union Square. Oh, because I
Speaker 2: remember I took Megan to see Tusk and she was
Speaker 2: really upset, but we had Cozy sandwiches with us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, you gotta follow up Tusk with a cozy sand No,
Speaker 3: we brought it in. We were like eating her. Oh
Speaker 3: you brought it in.
Speaker 1: I mean, I just hearing about Tusk, I'm like terrified,
Speaker 1: just like when people describe it. I'm like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, you know, I can't believe you brought
Speaker 1: that friend for us.
Speaker 3: She was so mad. Jesus, she's so mad. You're gonna
Speaker 3: love it. I'm just the Justin Long. I don't know why.
Speaker 3: I don't know, but it was like we went at
Speaker 3: like ten o'clock, we.
Speaker 2: Got with our cozy sandwiches, and when we left and
Speaker 2: she was livid.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Justin Long like doesn't have the like for some reason.
Speaker 1: Like when he first came on the scene, I wouldn't
Speaker 1: have like assumed he was the kind of guy that
Speaker 1: has made the choices that he's made in his career.
Speaker 1: Like I think he's made cool choices. Oh, but I
Speaker 1: was always like, he's just like a guy that's gonna
Speaker 1: do like little rom coms and whatever. You know.
Speaker 3: Now he's always been horror, just long creepers.
Speaker 1: Yeah he's like, oh, well, I guess I don't watch those,
Speaker 1: So all I've seen him in is like but then
Speaker 1: he's like, now in the what's the guy's name, Zach,
Speaker 1: the guy made Zach.
Speaker 3: Yeah, now he's in all those and you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, okay, let's get started, right, that's your favorite slop.
Speaker 5: I mean.
Speaker 3: That'll be a postwart.
Speaker 2: Okay, listen listening to this, this horrific episode and at
Speaker 2: the end.
Speaker 1: Yeah about stay tuned if you want to hear Kara's
Speaker 1: favorite soup. Okay, uh. But as always, you guys, that's
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Speaker 3: Okay, we are doing devastating story. I want to be like, yay.
Speaker 1: Another Yeah, this is gonna be devastating.
Speaker 2: God, I hate waring lights. Sometimes devastating story. April First Wow,
Speaker 2: April Fool's Day twenty fifteen, Season sixteen, episode eighteen, and
Speaker 2: it's like an America's Most Wanted style show called America's
Speaker 2: Worst Crimes. This guy seems a little cheesy, but I
Speaker 2: like the real guy from the real life what's his
Speaker 2: name Walsh? Yeah, so because his kid was murdered or
Speaker 2: disappeared out and I feel like that show did a
Speaker 2: lot of good work. Yeah, I don't know if there
Speaker 2: were errors like in this. Sorry to get ahead of myself.
Speaker 2: I am curious. Oh do you talk about the show?
Speaker 3: No, this is I don't. I don't actually John Walsh,
Speaker 3: John Walsh.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm curious because to me, that show did like
Speaker 2: incredible work.
Speaker 3: But I wonder if I'm mistaken.
Speaker 2: Like I wonder if they al I wonder if it's
Speaker 2: like cops and it's like wait what But I remember
Speaker 2: like giant people getting captured because of him. So I
Speaker 2: liked the real show. But this this guy's a little cheesy.
Speaker 2: There's an American flag, there's an eagle. He's talking about
Speaker 2: college rape. We're at Hudson University obviously, Okay, so Sanctuary
Speaker 2: of the Mind they call Hudson. Now they're like, Sanctuary
Speaker 2: of the Mind is what they call themselves, but it's
Speaker 2: more of a sanctuary for rapists. Or did I say that?
Speaker 2: I honestly don't know if this was me or that
Speaker 2: the host of The America's I'm not sure who said
Speaker 2: what but whatever, there's a recreation, which you hate, right,
Speaker 2: I don't love recreations.
Speaker 1: They could be done well, like I'd like when we
Speaker 1: talked to Nancy Schwartzman, I thought the recreations in hers
Speaker 1: were done well, and in some of them they're just
Speaker 1: like really cheesy and they kind of take me.
Speaker 3: Out of it.
Speaker 1: But yeah, I do know, I don't I don't know.
Speaker 3: I don't know what I need anymore.
Speaker 2: I haven't watched like Forensic Files, and I haven't watched,
Speaker 2: but I liked this because the recreation is incredible. They're like,
Speaker 2: she's from the Midwest and so she's like in an
Speaker 2: ugly scarf and smile and what that means to them,
Speaker 2: you know, first time leaving her hometown. And then her
Speaker 2: dream turned into a nightmare. We go to old school
Speaker 2: interview vibes where it's like darkened on top of a
Speaker 2: person so you can't see who's talking. Hit an identity interview.
Speaker 2: She started chatting to a popular, you know guy boyfriend.
Speaker 2: Material thought he was one of the good guys. The
Speaker 2: host says, but you were wrong, and she and then
Speaker 2: she says yeah about everything, so you know, he was
Speaker 2: like a popular frack guy. The romantic moment turned terrifying.
Speaker 2: She suddenly there was four men. It was it's a
Speaker 2: gang rape. She was gang raped for hours. She said
Speaker 2: she could tell she wasn't even human to them. And
Speaker 2: we discussed this a lot, like it's not even it's
Speaker 2: not always even the action. It's like the core of
Speaker 2: how women are viewed by so many people, just like
Speaker 2: not human.
Speaker 3: So wildly.
Speaker 2: Benson is watching this programming as she's feeding baby Noah,
Speaker 2: which is insane.
Speaker 3: It's like your day off. It's your day off, babe,
Speaker 3: why are you watching this?
Speaker 2: Yes, but she's funny, and she turns to Know and goes,
Speaker 2: you're not going to Hudson University.
Speaker 1: And then I don't remember that joke from before, Like
Speaker 1: I don't remember that. It felt like the first time
Speaker 1: hearing that joke, and I was like, I like that
Speaker 1: the show can laugh about Hudson University being like an
Speaker 1: absolute hot bed of rape, Like it's it was good.
Speaker 3: I like that.
Speaker 1: That really gave me a nice giggle. Yeah, And then
Speaker 1: she uh so, then we go back. She would they
Speaker 1: you know, she went to the school she went and
Speaker 1: to report it. They of course are like, were you drinking?
Speaker 2: Are their witnesses So then back to Benson and Chief
Speaker 2: Dodds calls her and she she goes, I'm actually watching
Speaker 2: that right now. What are the chances? What are the chances?
Speaker 2: And guess who else is watching the program? The mayor's wife,
Speaker 2: and she wants something done about this, so Benson says,
Speaker 2: we're on it.
Speaker 3: She's also in like.
Speaker 2: A half up, half down hair situation, big swoop bangs.
Speaker 2: She looks very amazing. So we're back to the show
Speaker 2: and she's like, the nightmare just began. And then Benson
Speaker 2: breathes deep because she knows this is about to be
Speaker 2: like a hell of a case. And we go into
Speaker 2: the credits. So now we're watching the episode again, but
Speaker 2: at work, Rollin's Fen and Careasey are in there, and
Speaker 2: Creasey judges her and like, hasn't he been in this
Speaker 2: squad for a while, Like isn't he a lawyer already?
Speaker 3: Like what the fuck is his problem? But now this
Speaker 3: is funny.
Speaker 2: He goes, this is what you do on your Sundays off,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, well, me and Gracie mansion. Apparently he's
Speaker 2: not annoying right now, I got ahead of myself again.
Speaker 2: But he's very annoying, and his hair looks like shit
Speaker 2: this episode too, like I wonder if something happened, Yeah,
Speaker 2: like it's gelled back like a vampire. He truly looks
Speaker 2: like really crazy. There's a newspaper boy hat later. It's
Speaker 2: a weird part, like I wonder if he went to
Speaker 2: a beauty school for a cheap haircut and something happened,
Speaker 2: Like it is such weird combing and gelling in this episode.
Speaker 3: And they're usually very good.
Speaker 2: And one PP is pissed because they got caught looking
Speaker 2: bad on national television. But how nothing was reported? So
Speaker 2: caris he already looked into it happened in December, and
Speaker 2: NYPD got no record of a complaint from the VIC
Speaker 2: or Hudson University. So I don't know why one Pp
Speaker 2: is even like ty you know panties on a twist.
Speaker 3: Oh they always do.
Speaker 1: They're like, how did you not like like into it
Speaker 1: that this was happening, Like why didn't you see into
Speaker 1: the crystal ball?
Speaker 3: They're always mad.
Speaker 2: So Benson goes, well, she said Hudson ignored her, which
Speaker 2: obviously we've been down this road before, and then Rollins goes,
Speaker 2: of course, and this show, but the show is for ratings, like,
Speaker 2: we don't even know if any of this happened, and
Speaker 2: Cariese's like and we're too busy, okay, And Benson has
Speaker 2: to remind them this isn't lm Z okay, it's a
Speaker 2: legit national news magazine. They interviewed her, she disclosed, and
Speaker 2: she and then she got a call from Dodds, who
Speaker 2: got called from the mayor. So like, we actually don't
Speaker 2: even have a choice, and we have to investigate. But
Speaker 2: they also don't even know who this girl is. But
Speaker 2: the show does. So Finn goes, great, you're gonna make
Speaker 2: me talk to reporters. So they're with the hosts of
Speaker 2: the show, and again he seems like a passion good
Speaker 2: guy and happy to be amplifying what's going on. Rollins goes, great,
Speaker 2: so you amplify and we investigate, so give us the information,
Speaker 2: and I gey, this is where I noticed Carisey's here,
Speaker 2: I wrote, weird, It's like, I don't get it, so
Speaker 2: but obviously this reporter can't give the name up and
Speaker 2: Rollins goes get over it, like no one cares, and
Speaker 2: stop leaning on the First Amendment. Isn't that what it's
Speaker 2: for to lean on it? Like I don't understand. He's like, no, no,
Speaker 2: I'm not falling on my journalistic sword. Like, the only
Speaker 2: way she agreed to talk to me is that I
Speaker 2: promised her anonymity, and so that's what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 2: She's scared to fucking death and Cariasey threatens to get
Speaker 2: a judge to force him to do it, and he
Speaker 2: folds immediately, well not fully. He goes, I'll kick the
Speaker 2: footage request upstairs, but that's not my call, and I'll
Speaker 2: connect you to the woman who shopped the story and
Speaker 2: maybe she can convince Jane to come talk to the NYPD.
Speaker 2: So we're at Hudson, Rollins and crease He are there
Speaker 2: to meet Professor Dylan and this actress we figured out
Speaker 2: from Breaking bats while episodes, so that's exciting.
Speaker 3: And she she wants to help.
Speaker 2: They bring up American Crime Show and she's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: it's important what they did to get the story out.
Speaker 2: But when Rollin's asked to get in touch with Jane,
Speaker 2: she's like, listen, she already tried this.
Speaker 3: She went to the school, it turned out terrible. She
Speaker 3: can't do it.
Speaker 2: Krees calls Jane a victim, and the professor interrupts him
Speaker 2: and goes survivor and he's like, I'll kill you in
Speaker 2: his eyes, like he hates her, but he goes, okay,
Speaker 2: the survivor and the university that's got nothing to do
Speaker 2: with us, and she goes listen, she's very fragile. I
Speaker 2: don't know if she can like even handle the legal
Speaker 2: system right now, and Rollins goes, lady, with all due respects,
Speaker 2: if you don't want to help, that's fine, but we'll
Speaker 2: go around you, so figure out what the fuck you want.
Speaker 2: It rubs her the wrong way and she says something
Speaker 2: about fellow centric language. I didn't want to rewind, I
Speaker 2: don't care, so Rollin's so Rollins then like plays good girl.
Speaker 2: Now she's like, listen, something terrible happen and we don't
Speaker 2: want these guys to get away with it. And she
Speaker 2: does hear that, but she just doesn't think Jane wants
Speaker 2: to hear, like deal with any of this.
Speaker 3: So we're back at the office.
Speaker 2: Rollinds things up and goes like, fuck, Jane is not
Speaker 2: going to cooperate and that she will come forward when
Speaker 2: and where she wants to, and Cristy is like, what
Speaker 2: the fuck does that mean? And Rollins goes, well, she's
Speaker 2: scared to make an official complaint, and cares again. I
Speaker 2: wrote hair insane in this episode all caps. So then
Speaker 2: you know, Carees confronts Rollins and they're at the coffee area,
Speaker 2: and you know, I love when they do normal office things.
Speaker 2: So they're at the coffee station and he's like, what
Speaker 2: the fuck you threw me under the bus with that professor,
Speaker 2: And Rollins goes, come on, bro, she's a rape advocate.
Speaker 2: She has a chip on her shoulder about mail detectives.
Speaker 2: I was just working my angles and he goes, rape advocate.
Speaker 3: I don't even get what that is.
Speaker 1: There's no burglary at burglary advocate or carjacking advocate.
Speaker 3: What the fuck? Like we know her? I don't. Is
Speaker 3: this that new? Am? I like mistaken that Cares is
Speaker 3: like too young.
Speaker 2: I guess this is pre law school, but like, how
Speaker 2: are you in SVU and the Good Guy and doing this?
Speaker 3: What season is this again? Sixteen?
Speaker 2: He's new, season new. I guess he's new. You're right,
Speaker 2: he's new. He's new. He's new.
Speaker 3: Fuck.
Speaker 2: So then Rolinds goes, well, when's the last time a
Speaker 2: carjacking victim got asked? Are you sure you didn't want
Speaker 2: to get your car to get stolen. So he says, okay, fine,
Speaker 2: I get it, but she's getting in our way. And
Speaker 2: then Ronalds has to be like, yeah, welcome to SVU,
Speaker 2: you fucking idiot, get used to it.
Speaker 3: I'm sorry I was so rude to Creasy. It is his.
Speaker 2: First season and they do have to make sure there's
Speaker 2: character growth. He grabs his jacket, pissed, and he's heading
Speaker 2: back to campus. He doesn't want to tell Benson that
Speaker 2: there's nothing there, like he's new and he wants to
Speaker 2: impress the sergeant. So Benson and Barbara are walking with
Speaker 2: cute little blue NYC coffee cups love them, and she
Speaker 2: is speaking a different language, Italian. Hello, she's in a beanie.
Speaker 2: She's like grat say.
Speaker 1: She's like, the investigation is just starting now, Okay, thank
Speaker 1: you bye, Like out of the conversation feels like it's
Speaker 1: like an opportunity to showcase Marishka's Italian and not necessarily
Speaker 1: super important to the plot.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's always trying to squeeze that in. So they're
Speaker 2: they're chatting the case. You know, no one trusts cops.
Speaker 2: Barbara says, al subpoena everyone. Benson goes, there has to
Speaker 2: be an easier way. So she's like, listen, she talks
Speaker 2: to someone at the university, let's figure it out. Of
Speaker 2: course it's the president, President Roberts, and Benson goes, oh,
Speaker 2: we have history. So they're in the office and she
Speaker 2: and the old lady from what are definitely best friends,
Speaker 2: like they know each other. They're at the gallas. This
Speaker 2: is an old, mean woman. She's like under her eye
Speaker 2: eyeliner on, she's a mess. So basically her name, the
Speaker 2: actress is Kathleen Schalfant, and she's in the movie Old
Speaker 2: and she's in four episodes of SVU So to non
Speaker 2: She's in season two of an episode called non Compliance
Speaker 2: in the season eight Haystack, and then also from this
Speaker 2: season port and Stars Requiem as the same character.
Speaker 3: She is like always what.
Speaker 1: I think of when I think of the dean character
Speaker 1: at Hudson, Like we've met many different college deans of
Speaker 1: different ages and genders, and this woman, to me is
Speaker 1: like the quintessential SVU Hudson University dean, like just pointy
Speaker 1: features and like, you know, this is who I think of.
Speaker 3: Kathleen Chlfont.
Speaker 2: Yes, and then Benson sits sound slow and says that
Speaker 2: Jane said she was shut down by the new university.
Speaker 3: Who did she talk to?
Speaker 2: She goes, yeah, me, so she goes, I followed all protocols,
Speaker 2: and Benson goes, uh huh, Well, we're talking about a
Speaker 2: gang rape, so that's weird that it was never officially reported,
Speaker 2: and the press is like, hmm, first I heard of
Speaker 2: any gang was on that show. When she came to me,
Speaker 2: she only mentioned one person and she will not say who,
Speaker 2: and the President calls it regrettable drunken sex. And then
Speaker 2: Benson goes, oh, okay, four men holding her down sounds
Speaker 2: like that right, and the President goes again, she only
Speaker 2: mentioned one student.
Speaker 3: She was drunk.
Speaker 2: She went willingly there with her date, and when I
Speaker 2: asked her if it was consensual, she became defensive, which duh.
Speaker 2: But also I don't understand how entering a frat hoouse
Speaker 2: on a date is saying yes to rape like or
Speaker 2: to fucking like the things that people use as consent
Speaker 2: or yes is so strange to me. Yeah, it's like, yeah,
Speaker 2: you did want to go on a date, but you
Speaker 2: didn't want to fuck, Like, why is that not an option?
Speaker 3: It's just like so strange.
Speaker 2: So she said she talked to the date too, and
Speaker 2: he seemed credible and he's well regarded. Why is he
Speaker 2: more credible than the girl? Because she wants to fuck him?
Speaker 2: Like that's what it is, Like, why is he more credible? Yeah,
Speaker 2: we meet him later, he doesn't look more trustworthy than her.
Speaker 3: She gives me snow white.
Speaker 2: He gives me lacrosse rape, you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: Like he actually looks rape. Like when they and this
Speaker 2: show in particular, when they're like upstanding, Oh, they trustworthy, trustworthy,
Speaker 2: it's like we have such different ideas of what trustworthy
Speaker 2: is because like all these guys look so shady to
Speaker 2: me when we meet them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel like basically they mistake like self assuredness
Speaker 1: for being in confidence for like trustworthiness.
Speaker 3: Like a guy probably goes in there.
Speaker 1: And goes, ma'am, here's what happened, And the girl probably
Speaker 1: comes in and goes and then like because she's traumatized.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean, And so.
Speaker 1: They're like, I don't know, he just seemed more critical
Speaker 1: credible because he was more articulate and direct about what happened.
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, because it wasn't a life ruining event
Speaker 1: for him. You know, did you consider that that is
Speaker 1: such a good point because I just know how guys that.
Speaker 1: I mean, this guy has the most punched the fucking face.
Speaker 2: And then with like this is one of our earlier
Speaker 2: like one of our first few episodes. But the colleens
Speaker 2: stamcase of like, you know, if you're too traumatized and slow,
Speaker 2: you're not trusted. But if you keep it all together,
Speaker 2: then you're not sad enough.
Speaker 3: And did it actually and you made it all up? Yeah,
Speaker 3: So it's.
Speaker 2: Like even so if she went in there and was
Speaker 2: direct and like clear, that also wouldn't have flown right.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, women can't get it right, that's for sure.
Speaker 2: So and then the president goes like, oh I was
Speaker 2: blind sided on national television, and Benson's over it and
Speaker 2: she's like I need to know the names.
Speaker 3: And that's when it hits.
Speaker 2: The president like, oh, she didn't even come to the police,
Speaker 2: so I'm not helping you.
Speaker 3: There's no criminal complaint. Fuck off.
Speaker 2: And then we hear like a protest happening outside and
Speaker 2: they're all chanting, we are all Jane, and she goes,
Speaker 2: excuse me, I have a firestorm on my hands. So
Speaker 2: then Careesy runs up to Benson in the freezing New
Speaker 2: York cold. He's wearing a newspaper boy hat that I
Speaker 2: mentioned earlier.
Speaker 3: It is they're trying to figure him out, and it's fine, and.
Speaker 2: I think, like eight more times I comment on it,
Speaker 2: I wrote rough episode for his head, like it is
Speaker 2: just a mess.
Speaker 3: So he's had no luck on campus.
Speaker 2: They walk to the protests and people are talking onto
Speaker 2: the mic explaining their journeys with sexual assault and how
Speaker 2: the school just said they would transfer her out of
Speaker 2: class to not be with her rapists, and then he
Speaker 2: graduated with honors, and the professor gets back on the
Speaker 2: mic and then she introduces Jane blue Eyes beanie full winterwear.
Speaker 2: The girl says, my name is Heather Manning and I'm
Speaker 2: the real Jane gasps depercussion music and she wants to
Speaker 2: tell her story. So now Jane and the professor Dylan,
Speaker 2: they show up at the precincts. Benson and Rollins are
Speaker 2: there to greet them, and the professor goes, we're not
Speaker 2: ready to press charges, and they respond we what. Benson goes, no,
Speaker 2: we want to talk to her without you, and then
Speaker 2: Benson and the professor of a side chin, she goes
Speaker 2: listen a ton of people in the community said that
Speaker 2: she that, like, you're the best, and if anyone's going
Speaker 2: to help, it's going to be you. But like Heather
Speaker 2: trusts me, and so I need to be there. So
Speaker 2: now the four of them are at the Circle would
Speaker 2: room Blind's table, and on December twelfth, she went on
Speaker 2: a date with an Alpha Zeta pie hockey player. Now
Speaker 2: we did not do this on purpose, but it is
Speaker 2: crazy that we are doing another hockey episode, considering you're
Speaker 2: constantly both trying to silence my heated Bible and then
Speaker 2: picking more and more hockey themed episodes.
Speaker 1: Hockey gets really big in the latter half of the catalog.
Speaker 1: I don't know what to say, we can't avoid it.
Speaker 2: And she's in a sky blue, very pretty sweater that
Speaker 2: matches her eyeshadow perfectly. So she says the date was
Speaker 2: with Brian Mackie. He's the team captain, and we meet
Speaker 2: him and it's like, there's no way that dork plays hockey.
Speaker 2: There's just no fucking way. Like they picked the least
Speaker 2: athletic looking people, like.
Speaker 3: I don't know, I guess I have a lot of issues.
Speaker 3: So that a great day.
Speaker 2: They went back to the house, and then he pulled
Speaker 2: her into his room and three guys were waiting in there.
Speaker 3: They jumped on her like a pack.
Speaker 2: She says that Brian was in charge the whole time,
Speaker 2: and that two people held her legs and two held
Speaker 2: her arms, and she doesn't know the other guy's names,
Speaker 2: but she's sure there was four men. And Benson's like,
Speaker 2: okay because the president said, you only mentioned one, and
Speaker 2: the professor is like, well, Roberts try to blame her
Speaker 2: for it. She didn't feel safe, and Benson goes, well,
Speaker 2: you're safe here and everyone needs to relax. So they
Speaker 2: took her and s raping her, sadomizing her. She starts
Speaker 2: to cry. They used an object, the handle of the
Speaker 2: hockey stick, and then they all high fived each other
Speaker 2: and left her there then and then cud it keeps
Speaker 2: going and then and then like with Porn Stars Requiem,
Speaker 2: it's very similar.
Speaker 3: That was a gang rape as well. Yeah, same season
Speaker 3: a few episodes ago, like.
Speaker 2: But okay, So she tries to leave and there's like
Speaker 2: she's running down the stairs of the frat house and
Speaker 2: there's guys all over throwing beer cans and cups at
Speaker 2: her and like telling her to go to church and
Speaker 2: apologize to her father for ruining his life, and her
Speaker 2: parents still don't know. They're fighting malaria in the Central
Speaker 2: African Republic.
Speaker 3: I don't know. I think they would fly home. I
Speaker 3: think they'd fly home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, your daughter is not to blame her, but I
Speaker 1: think she'd I think they'd fly home. For her appearance
Speaker 1: on America's Worst Crimes. Yeah, do you think probably who's
Speaker 1: watching her?
Speaker 3: No one text to them, No one text. Yeah.
Speaker 1: That is one of those things where they're like, we
Speaker 1: were over budget because of all the protest scenes, and
Speaker 1: we couldn't afford another like co star to be the
Speaker 1: the mom.
Speaker 2: She didn't go to the doctor either, And they but
Speaker 2: they need someone to corroborate. They keep saying that, and
Speaker 2: the professor tells how, But why don't the men have
Speaker 2: some Oh they all corroborate for each other.
Speaker 3: Duh.
Speaker 2: So anyways, the professor tells how, they're to show them
Speaker 2: the text. So then Brian did text her in an
Speaker 2: attempt to apologize, and it says, sorry about last night.
Speaker 2: My boys are out of control, but you deserve better
Speaker 2: than what they did. Benson goes great, any other physical
Speaker 2: evidence She goes, yeah, there's a guy that came up
Speaker 2: to me in class on Monday in front of everyone
Speaker 2: and gave me back my panties and I kept them,
Speaker 2: so that's good as well. And she wants to do
Speaker 2: this like after the rally. She wants to make sure
Speaker 2: like women know that they can do this too, So
Speaker 2: she names the other guys. They're all on the hockey team,
Speaker 2: and the detectives are on the scene. They have warrants
Speaker 2: full search. The guys are douches, obviously so confident. They're
Speaker 2: not taking any of this seriously. Like even if let's
Speaker 2: say you're innocent as fuck rich, everything's on your side,
Speaker 2: I don't know how they're like none of them are
Speaker 2: a little shaky that ten officers are searching, and like,
Speaker 2: I don't I don't get being this chill as there's
Speaker 2: a raid in your home.
Speaker 3: But if your.
Speaker 1: Daddy is like a lawyer, you're like whatever, whatever they find,
Speaker 1: it's fine, you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think they're like those kind of guys.
Speaker 2: Brian is okay, Brian's not hot, sorry to the actor,
Speaker 2: but like, I don't get it, but he and then
Speaker 2: he does call it sex to creasy. Then there's a
Speaker 2: blonde guy, and he telling Rollins that she wanted Brian
Speaker 2: since freshman year and he threw her a bone. And
Speaker 2: Blondie was actually the big brother in the episode Savant
Speaker 2: from season nine and he's also in season twenty four Debatable.
Speaker 2: So then we hear someone going eight inches of it
Speaker 2: Brah and then Brian said she wanted to stay and
Speaker 2: snuggle but he did not, and then he calls it
Speaker 2: a walk and then there's like a walk of shame discussion,
Speaker 2: but even calling it that, it's like, why is it
Speaker 2: shameful to fuck you? And if you know what I mean,
Speaker 2: like why are you punishing the people that want to
Speaker 2: fuck you? I mean, she was attacked, but like let's like,
Speaker 2: let's say she just wanted Like why are you? Like
Speaker 2: it doesn't make sense. And we talked about this where
Speaker 2: it's like hard to get. It's like why do you
Speaker 2: want people that don't want to fuck you?
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: The only time I.
Speaker 1: Really kind of feel like it's a walk of shame
Speaker 1: is when you're walking home in your Halloween costume. But
Speaker 1: I think it's because them like, wow, you really like
Speaker 1: you look crazy? But you're right, why is it ever
Speaker 1: called the walk of shame? It's like you're walking home
Speaker 1: from having sex.
Speaker 3: Like you want someone to fuck you?
Speaker 2: This is an assault, but like, let's you want someone
Speaker 2: to fuck you because it seems like they do it
Speaker 2: to all the women in their front house. Yeah, and
Speaker 2: it's like then you punish them, and then more women
Speaker 2: do it, and then your mean to that, like why
Speaker 2: not being I don't understand. I don't understand this kind
Speaker 2: of culture. It's really confusing to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and they have a name, they call it the Gauntlet.
Speaker 2: Like they're constantly just like throwing shit at women. They
Speaker 2: called her a whore and I okay, And as they're
Speaker 2: explaining it to the cops, it's like not one of
Speaker 2: them goes, wait should.
Speaker 3: We not do that?
Speaker 1: They're like this is years and years of tradition, like
Speaker 1: we have to keep doing it.
Speaker 3: You don't get it.
Speaker 2: And then they're the ones that are credible to the president.
Speaker 2: It's so confusing, and then it's like do you want
Speaker 2: people not to fuck you?
Speaker 3: Then? Like should they not? Because then they are whores?
Speaker 2: And it's just like none of it fucking makes sense then,
Speaker 2: because then I mean I hate Amber Rose obviously, like
Speaker 2: anyone that's like votes for Trump is not a friend
Speaker 2: of mine, but I saw her on one podcast and
Speaker 2: she goes, all these dudes are like, they all have
Speaker 2: this idea of who they want to marry and it's
Speaker 2: this virginal mother type figure. And then she's like, they
Speaker 2: all cheat on these people. So it's like, what do
Speaker 2: you actually want because it's not the person you married.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yep, yeah, it's the Madonna and the horror complex,
Speaker 1: all of them for sure.
Speaker 2: And she's just like, you all want, like why are
Speaker 2: you marrying? It's like again to the top of this episode,
Speaker 2: it's like she wasn't even human, and it's like so
Speaker 2: much of the discussions of this is just like women
Speaker 2: are this like full afterthought to any of this. I'm
Speaker 2: gonna fuck this and then we're gonna wait and shame them.
Speaker 2: It's like fucking insane.
Speaker 7: Ugh.
Speaker 2: Then another guy in a backwards hack goes, can't take
Speaker 2: the heat, don't be a thought, and he is hot
Speaker 2: and his name is Connor. Connor's hot, and he does
Speaker 2: deny everything, and he said he would not take Mackie's scraps,
Speaker 2: which is true because Mackie's not hot. So I see
Speaker 2: everything now. So then the boys think they're the ones
Speaker 2: being fucked over. They're the victims, but no one cares.
Speaker 2: The search war includes DNA, so they're getting it. The
Speaker 2: guy that plays Connor is like a Broadway guy.
Speaker 3: Stop.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he was recently in the Mulin Rouge and like
Speaker 1: he replaced Aaron dwit Or. I don't know how you
Speaker 1: say his same vite, like who's an SPU guy, but
Speaker 1: I just think he has so I was so shocked
Speaker 1: because I think he has such like lacrosse rapee face,
Speaker 1: like for these kind of episodes of TV. But then
Speaker 1: he's like was in the Alanis Morissett musical and like
Speaker 1: Anastasia on Broadway and stuff, and he played Fierro in Wicked,
Speaker 1: which actually tracks one.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so now Finn and Rollins come report updates to
Speaker 2: Benson in her office, but the fourth guy wasn't there
Speaker 2: whereas he he's on a culture tour of Cuba.
Speaker 3: I can't convenient Kreesy pops in.
Speaker 2: So Taru just found a video that Connor made the
Speaker 2: night of the assault, and it was like deep in
Speaker 2: the hard drive and it's when she's running down the
Speaker 2: stairs and it is horrific, just like dozens of guys
Speaker 2: throwing shit at her, and then it goes to the
Speaker 2: haughty Connor and he's like, hey, it's me.
Speaker 3: This is another slut shaming video.
Speaker 2: So Barbara goes, listen, this sucks and it is harassment,
Speaker 2: but it is not assault. And then Benson goes, but hello,
Speaker 2: we have this semen match on the underwear, so like
Speaker 2: I forgot that we even got the but the semen's matching.
Speaker 3: So there's semen on the underwear.
Speaker 2: And then he's like, what about the hockey sticks, and
Speaker 2: it's like, it's been three months. There's not going to
Speaker 2: be fucking, you know, DNA on a hockey stick, idiot.
Speaker 3: So then.
Speaker 2: Barba says, no rape kit, no initial disclosure, nothing matches.
Speaker 2: It's been three months, Like what do you want and
Speaker 2: Benson is like, please, we have to do this. So
Speaker 2: Barbara goes, fine, bring in the hockey team. So then
Speaker 2: Brian denies the gang rape and says he texted the
Speaker 2: apology because of the throwing of the cups and the screaming,
Speaker 2: and he did feel badly about it, but you still
Speaker 2: are friends with all these people and I want you
Speaker 2: in jail. So then Finn is not having it, and
Speaker 2: now it cuts to Rollin's with the hattie and he
Speaker 2: says fuck that.
Speaker 3: I am not going to be an Eskimo brother with
Speaker 3: that guy.
Speaker 2: And they're like, well, your DNA is on the panties
Speaker 2: and he goes, I don't know, I fucking live there whatever,
Speaker 2: and the lawyer goes, is there a chain of custody here?
Speaker 3: And Rollins goes, well, I don't know.
Speaker 2: He's the one who handed it back to her, and
Speaker 2: he goes exactly, and that's the DNA and Rollin goes, well,
Speaker 2: that doesn't explain the semen now, does it, you fucking idiot.
Speaker 2: So then Careese is with the blonde guy in the
Speaker 2: center office and he's playing a game too. He's like, listen,
Speaker 2: you're not in cement room.
Speaker 3: Bars.
Speaker 2: We know you're a good guy, you know, like maybe
Speaker 2: if you tell the truth, like well, things will work out,
Speaker 2: and Carisee goes, you know, you just want It's like again,
Speaker 2: what the fuck? But he says I wasn't in the room.
Speaker 2: Creasey goes, great, so tell me who was in the
Speaker 2: room and then you could walk and the whole case
Speaker 2: is done and he's thinking. And then Barba and Benson
Speaker 2: are in the spy window and she's like, hey, can
Speaker 2: you call Cuba? And he's like, I don't have like
Speaker 2: pole in Cuba and he will be arrested when he
Speaker 2: comes on American soil, and Benson goes if he ever returns,
Speaker 2: like what the fuck?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 2: So then Careesy now walks in and then whispers something
Speaker 2: into Rollin's ear in front of the backwards hat hot
Speaker 2: guy and then they laugh, and then so haw guy
Speaker 2: gets nervous, and then Carisey goes, oh, we actually don't
Speaker 2: need you to actually talk at all, because between the
Speaker 2: DNA and your buddy's testimonies, we and like statements or
Speaker 2: whatever we got you. And so then the lawyer finally
Speaker 2: starts like whispering with Connor, and then Connor starts to talk.
Speaker 2: He's like, listen, it just seemed bad. But after she
Speaker 2: was done with Brian, she moved on to me and
Speaker 2: he snaps his fingers like that, and then the lawyer
Speaker 2: jumps in and goes, see it was consensual, and he goes,
Speaker 2: I didn't you know? The goes I didn't rape her,
Speaker 2: ask Brian. So then Rollins goes, oh, so Brian was there,
Speaker 2: and that's when it's like, you shouldn't talk, like let
Speaker 2: your lawyer talk. It must be like so hard not
Speaker 2: to talk like you just implicated Brian, like it's so
Speaker 2: you also said you didn't and now you're saying it
Speaker 2: you are, And why did the lawyer stop him?
Speaker 3: And I know it's television, but.
Speaker 2: It's like they all just they all break, but it
Speaker 2: means he saw him. So then back to Brian, and
Speaker 2: Finn's like, oh, your boy, Connor admitted that he did
Speaker 2: have sex with Heather after you and that you knew
Speaker 2: about it, and that means you lied, So what else
Speaker 2: did you lie about? And the lawyer goes shut up
Speaker 2: and Brian again another one goes, no, I want to explain.
Speaker 2: He goes, I did see Connor with her, but she
Speaker 2: was and the lawyer caught him off, and the detectors
Speaker 2: are like, let him finish, and he leans in with
Speaker 2: his dumb looking glasses and he goes for her to
Speaker 2: be acting all prim and proper. Now she wants to
Speaker 2: act like a whore on Saturday and like a virgin
Speaker 2: on Sunday. And the lawyer wants to end this conversation
Speaker 2: and Rollins is trying to get him to keep talking,
Speaker 2: and you know, like what's gonna happen?
Speaker 3: I can't wait.
Speaker 2: So now it's like all hands on deck. It's full meeting.
Speaker 2: They don't really have anything. None of them signed waivers,
Speaker 2: like none of them did anything. Barbara doesn't care, though,
Speaker 2: and he's like, I don't care. Let's just try to
Speaker 2: arrang them. You know, the deeper they get in the system,
Speaker 2: the harder will be to pull them out. And Benson goes, well,
Speaker 2: let's just wait a half hour because Connor's hot and smug,
Speaker 2: so let's get him on the eleven PM news. So
Speaker 2: they do a whole handcuff purp walk like media circus.
Speaker 2: There's already posters, like how do people already make posters?
Speaker 2: Like they're just getting arranged, like they're not even at Rikers.
Speaker 1: And Sbu are ready with glustics and paint markers and
Speaker 1: they're ready to go.
Speaker 2: It's so crazy. People are screaming, snapping. They close the
Speaker 2: door on an arresting Van Skip Peterson. He is the
Speaker 2: American crime host. He's on AM Buzz.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: This reminds me of like the VH one programming and
Speaker 1: the School Morning Big Morning Buzz with Michelle Butte. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know it.
Speaker 2: The school has suspended the rapists, so that's COOLPD like, yeah,
Speaker 2: arrested arranged their photos are on TV.
Speaker 5: Woo.
Speaker 3: Heather's also made.
Speaker 2: Some statements on television and how they dehumanized her and
Speaker 2: called her a vat and the team is watching, like
Speaker 2: our team, not the hockey team, is watching on the
Speaker 2: precinct television and carise He goes, wait, wait did she
Speaker 2: just say six men raped her? She told us four,
Speaker 2: and Finn goes, maybe she's counting the men in the hall,
Speaker 2: and Chrisey goes, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Something's off, and it's like, Crease, shut up and go
Speaker 3: brush your hair.
Speaker 2: We also hear that the TV, like the guy on
Speaker 2: the television say that the hockey sticks came back with
Speaker 2: a positive DNA match, So what's going on? And then
Speaker 2: Benson and Barba are watching this in the office and
Speaker 2: He's like, wait, wasn't there nothing on the sticks?
Speaker 3: What's happening?
Speaker 2: It's really confusing, it's not reliable, like what like this
Speaker 2: isn't good, And she's doing all these media rounds which
Speaker 2: makes no sense, and Benson goes, well, you know, it
Speaker 2: does kind of make sense one time.
Speaker 3: Once you tell your story, it's empowering.
Speaker 2: So she feels empowered and it's like so empowered that
Speaker 2: two more vics just came to light, and Benson goes, you, no,
Speaker 2: victims have issues with memory and details and like things
Speaker 2: come back in pieces.
Speaker 3: But she's gonna go talk to her.
Speaker 2: So they meet up in the office and Rollins leans
Speaker 2: behind Benson as like the professor and Heather are on
Speaker 2: the leather couch and Benson's like, hey, babe, all these
Speaker 2: stories are really different. It's going to hurt you in
Speaker 2: the end. And the professor goes, whatever, people need to
Speaker 2: know what these boys did to her, and Roland goes, no,
Speaker 2: we understand that, but the like it needs to be
Speaker 2: clear who and what and all of that, and Heather
Speaker 2: and the professor get defensive and annoyed immediately and like
Speaker 2: this is why we didn't want to come forward in.
Speaker 3: The first place.
Speaker 2: And Benson goes, well, you said six, so if there
Speaker 2: are more, like we need to know who they are.
Speaker 2: And she's like, well, there's this guy Zach because they
Speaker 2: kept calling him Stinky his nickname, and he's like, no,
Speaker 2: call me Zach, like I remember him there and but
Speaker 2: like you know, the Cuba stuff. And Professor's like, okay,
Speaker 2: why don't we pick apart their stories not hers? And
Speaker 2: Benson goes for sure, but we need you to stop
Speaker 2: going to the press, and she goes, ooh, I don't
Speaker 2: know if I can do that because I'm going on
Speaker 2: Anderson Cooper and Rachel Mattout tonight. So then Benson goes,
Speaker 2: you need to cancel, and the goes, it's too late,
Speaker 2: and we're finally you know. The professor goes, We're finally
Speaker 2: getting the attention we need on these issues and the
Speaker 2: country is going to wake up, and Benson interrupts AND's like, wait, wait, wait, attention.
Speaker 2: I thought your goal was to bring her assailants to justice,
Speaker 2: and she goes, I do, but this is so much
Speaker 2: bigger than that. Now I'm the face of a movement
Speaker 2: dramatic music. They go to the Center precinct and Finn
Speaker 2: is like, so, what's up, and Rollin says she said
Speaker 2: that she wants to get her story out there, and
Speaker 2: Careesy chimes in which one he's pissed, he's pissed, and
Speaker 2: she's like, she's gonna go torpedo this whole fucking case.
Speaker 2: And Finn says, Zach is back and he's about to
Speaker 2: be on LMZ. So buchanans iss lawyer, that's not good news,
Speaker 2: and then like, let's see what this evidence he has
Speaker 2: to prove that he's innocent. On LMZ so, on December twelfth,
Speaker 2: the assault day, he was nine hours away in West Vista,
Speaker 2: in West Virginia, on the soccer field in a championship game. So,
Speaker 2: I guess one guy plays soccer. They're in a frack
Speaker 2: and they all play different shit. I guess, I don't know,
Speaker 2: am I schooled. The hockey guys were all in one frat,
Speaker 2: but then in some other frauds there were guys that
Speaker 2: didn't bloy sports and you know. Yeah, So he played
Speaker 2: soccer championship game and Hudson won three zero, and Barba
Speaker 2: is watching, calling Benson and he's mad as fuck, like
Speaker 2: why didn't you have this? And she's like, they said
Speaker 2: he was in cube, I didn't have the information. And Barbara,
Speaker 2: you know, pours some pills out. He's stressed and more
Speaker 2: even more dramatic loud music. What are they gonna do?
Speaker 2: So they play the video for Heather and the professor
Speaker 2: and the full squad and Barbara everyone's there, and she's like,
Speaker 2: I could have sworn he was there. Mom goes, yeah,
Speaker 2: you said you heard him respond and that they said
Speaker 2: stinky and like what the fuck? And the professor keeps
Speaker 2: like trying to talk and they're like, shut up, we
Speaker 2: need Heather to talk, and she says I'm her advocate,
Speaker 2: and they're like, we need to know exactly what happened,
Speaker 2: and we need to know exactly what was told to you.
Speaker 2: And she said we told everything to Skip Peterson and
Speaker 2: Barba goes, yeah, great, we're talking to him now too,
Speaker 2: don't worry, and Skip is annoyed as fuck because what
Speaker 2: else did skip? Skip is trending? The case is collapsing.
Speaker 2: What are we gonna do? That's such a long hashtag too?
Speaker 2: Like remember when wedding hashtags like nothing was more important.
Speaker 1: Truly, it was so like we go, you gotta find
Speaker 1: a something that's like a pun on your name's.
Speaker 3: And now no one have.
Speaker 2: A phone, not only you, no one cares. Now it's
Speaker 2: like do not have phones. We have like cameras for you.
Speaker 2: There will be a like like do not post anything.
Speaker 1: I mean we had one because I wanted to see
Speaker 1: people's pictures of it. So like if you just click
Speaker 1: on the hashtag, I could see all the pictures. But
Speaker 1: we hijacked it from a high school couple. I didn't
Speaker 1: realize until we went on and I was like, Oh,
Speaker 1: all the pictures before our wedding are like this cute
Speaker 1: high school couple being like prom.
Speaker 2: Oh, gosh, yeah, I am going to a wedding this year.
Speaker 3: I'm excited. So what are we gonna do? What are
Speaker 3: we gonna do?
Speaker 2: Like give us something to corroborate her story, he like,
Speaker 2: or prove something like there needs to be something. And
Speaker 2: he talked to the professor first, and then Heather is
Speaker 2: what we find out from Skip. So it's like, wait,
Speaker 2: the professor, like why wouldn't it be Heather. So then
Speaker 2: the detectives kind of realize what's going on. So they're
Speaker 2: also mad at him for not interviewing the men, and
Speaker 2: he's like, Heather was terrified of them, like she wouldn't
Speaker 2: have wanted that. He found Heather credible, and he has
Speaker 2: a daughter, you know her age, and he was proud
Speaker 2: to start the dialogue of campus rape, and Creasey goes, well,
Speaker 2: we wish you picked a true story, Like it's his
Speaker 2: fucking fault.
Speaker 3: Crisey. Just I hate you right right now, just for
Speaker 3: this episode. And I'm team.
Speaker 2: Skip, Like I don't think Skip did anything wrong, do
Speaker 2: you Skip was just stink. Yeah, I feel like Skip, like, yeah,
Speaker 2: these two people come tell him the story he wanted it,
Speaker 2: like I don't feel maybe there should have been more journalism.
Speaker 1: But well you'll see when I talk about the real story. Okay,
Speaker 1: So he has to go tape a retraction. So now
Speaker 1: we're back to Heather. She's retelling her stories. She went
Speaker 1: on a date with Brian. They made their way back
Speaker 1: to the She thought he liked her, but it went wrong.
Speaker 3: It was horrible.
Speaker 2: Barbara goes, stop with feelings and horrible and descriptors like facts, facts, facts.
Speaker 3: So they're practicing for court.
Speaker 2: She said the room was dark but empty at first,
Speaker 2: and so those other men were not waiting for her,
Speaker 2: so like I thought you said everyone was waiting And
Speaker 2: she's like, no, Connor came in later, but I don't
Speaker 2: even know about the other boys. It was dark, drunk, confused,
Speaker 2: Barbara Goo's confused about what and she swallows. And now
Speaker 2: it's back to the professor with Rollins, and she goes
Speaker 2: she could barely talk when she came to me, and
Speaker 2: Rollin's like, well, what exactly did she say? And she
Speaker 2: said that she was assaulted, and Rollins goes okay, But
Speaker 2: did she mention the gang rape? And she says no,
Speaker 2: but you can tell that she has gone through hell.
Speaker 2: And then it's back to Heather, and the professor told
Speaker 2: her it would take a while to process everything, and
Speaker 2: Barbara just asked, did he rape you? And she said,
Speaker 2: I was drunk and he started to have sex with me,
Speaker 2: and he moved really fast, and I did go along
Speaker 2: with it at the start, but I'm not sure if
Speaker 2: it was consensual or not.
Speaker 3: Then I passed out.
Speaker 2: When I woke up, Connor was on top of me,
Speaker 2: raping me, and I did not want that. So now
Speaker 2: Brian then came back into the room and the rest
Speaker 2: is a blur. Then the harassing with everybody else started.
Speaker 2: And the professor is the one that said that they
Speaker 2: probably all took a piece of her.
Speaker 3: So the professor told her that.
Speaker 2: So then Barbara says, give me a second, goes into
Speaker 2: Rollins and Professor's the boardroom and goes, what the fuck
Speaker 2: did you tell Heather? And she goes, I told her
Speaker 2: what she already knew. It was barbaric. They taunted her
Speaker 2: and assaulted her. Did she tell you she was raped?
Speaker 2: And by how many men? Rollins asked, and the woman goes,
Speaker 2: what difference does that make? And they have to go
Speaker 2: A huge difference girl, and Barba says, all of this matter,
Speaker 2: specifics matter. She goes, it didn't matter what happened to her.
Speaker 2: What matters is it happens every day. These frap boys
Speaker 2: walk around like their bulletproof. It's bigger than any of us,
Speaker 2: and it's we need to eliminate rape culture once and
Speaker 2: for all.
Speaker 3: Louder dramatic music roars.
Speaker 2: Were watching Skip on TV, Finn, Benson, Rollins, increase you're watching.
Speaker 3: He says, I believed Heather.
Speaker 2: That was a mistake and sucks and they start debating
Speaker 2: and Finn goes like, she lied to us.
Speaker 3: She fucking lied to us. And Heather standing behind them listening.
Speaker 2: To all of it, so they shush Finn and Rollins
Speaker 2: goes up to her and she's like, Rollins is being
Speaker 2: extra nice. They're on the couch now with Benson, and
Speaker 2: she's like, once the story was out for everybody and
Speaker 2: all the support, I couldn't take it back.
Speaker 3: People needed me.
Speaker 2: And Benson's like, well, not if it's a lie, and
Speaker 2: she goes, no, what Brian did was wrong, Like you know,
Speaker 2: we were drunk and Dylan, and Professor Dlon said that
Speaker 2: we like I was not able to consent because of
Speaker 2: how fucked up I was.
Speaker 3: And then Brian left. She was passed out naked.
Speaker 2: Connor did rape her hard and violent, and Benson looks
Speaker 2: very conflicted and upset, and Brian came in. He saw everything.
Speaker 2: And Heather says, but like, why won't Brian turn on
Speaker 2: Connor like fuck off? Because of hockey? Yeah, so Heather says,
Speaker 2: he turned around and walked away. So Benson says, I
Speaker 2: believe you had there, but a jury is gonna have
Speaker 2: a lot of doubts with this story. And Heather goes, well, fuck,
Speaker 2: like I have to go to school every day and
Speaker 2: see my rapist, and Benson goes, I'm sorry. I wish
Speaker 2: there was something I can do to change that, but
Speaker 2: there's nothing at this point. So we're at Motions Court
Speaker 2: March nineteenth, Buchanan full dismissal. And it's like looking at
Speaker 2: all these frap boys and suits is so scary. It's true,
Speaker 2: like a flock of men should just be called a
Speaker 2: gang grape, you know, like little animals have names, Like
Speaker 2: the collective noun is gang grape. Well, I usually say
Speaker 2: barrel guys. But that's like a very specific restor to
Speaker 2: season five of Dexter. You know, not everyone knows that. Yes,
Speaker 2: so the blonde guy from the earlier episode meant menacing
Speaker 2: Grin and then Connor. Yeah, he's hot and evil. He's
Speaker 2: gonna rape for years to come. And the judge frees
Speaker 2: them all. They all hug and he smiles at Barba,
Speaker 2: and Barba's stone cold. He's so fucking pissed. He doesn't
Speaker 2: want to let rapists go free. So now back to Ambuzz.
Speaker 2: They're interviewing a girl that in IMDb is goth girl
Speaker 2: and her makeup is a problem, and she says, I
Speaker 2: believe this season it's like they fired all the hair
Speaker 2: and up and got new people or something like that,
Speaker 2: like what happened this episode. She says, I believed Heather.
Speaker 2: I believe Heather. Something terrible happened to her. Rape culture
Speaker 2: sucks and nobody is safe. The students are going to
Speaker 2: file a law suit against the university and the NYPD.
Speaker 2: Of course, this is hard and it sucks. So Benson
Speaker 2: is up to Hudson. You she has apologized to the president,
Speaker 2: which sucks, but they have a good conversation. They say
Speaker 2: like we were both used and played and we both
Speaker 2: had our blinders on. Benson goes, listen, it was all
Speaker 2: a perfect story, and you know, it proved all my
Speaker 2: preconceived notions. And then the president has regrets as well
Speaker 2: and is like, well, if I had just listened to
Speaker 2: her instead of badgering her with questions, like, maybe she
Speaker 2: would have come forward and that's a good start, like
Speaker 2: why come up?
Speaker 3: Like why not be supportive?
Speaker 2: Then question it's like questioning immediately why would someone feel
Speaker 2: safe to open up when you're questioning everything? So then
Speaker 2: maybe uh yeah, And Benson has the same sentiment like
Speaker 2: maybe she would have told you the truth and that
Speaker 2: con and you know, she goes, Connor did rape her.
Speaker 2: And you do have a predator on campus who's pretty emboldened.
Speaker 2: And the press goes, he wants me that you want
Speaker 2: me to discipline him since you can't prosecute him. Benson goes,
Speaker 2: I'm just asking you to do what you can, like
Speaker 2: you know, she keep.
Speaker 3: An eye out. He doesn't seem like a good guy, right,
Speaker 3: And she.
Speaker 2: Goes, I could have done a lot more last week, honestly,
Speaker 2: And she says, we had an incident last night, and
Speaker 2: the response was she's lying, just like Heather Manning, And
Speaker 2: she says, I don't blame Heather, you know, like fuck Dylan,
Speaker 2: it's the it's the fucking the rape advocate and Skip.
Speaker 2: You know, they all pushed her to come forward to
Speaker 2: like change rape culture, but it's set rape culture back
Speaker 2: thirty years.
Speaker 1: Benson says, And that's dick wolf Baby. Oh boy, damn.
Speaker 1: It is crazy. It's a wild episode that ends so badly,
Speaker 1: like there is kind of no justice at.
Speaker 3: The end, right.
Speaker 1: I mean, there's like maybe a dean that's gonna help
Speaker 1: a little bit change her way a little bit, but
Speaker 1: that's it.
Speaker 2: And now I'm looking at your crime notes right now,
Speaker 2: and it's like I remember all this, and people that
Speaker 2: don't believe rape love to focus on these rolling stats pieces.
Speaker 3: It is like it is like.
Speaker 2: This one thing they continuously love to bring up.
Speaker 3: So first I'm going to talk about this.
Speaker 1: Case that happened in two thousand and seven, which was
Speaker 1: the Deonza rape case. This incident took place at DeAnza
Speaker 1: College in Cooper, Tino, California, a place you might remember
Speaker 1: as where your iPhone automatically sets its time to. And
Speaker 1: this happened on March fourth, two thousand and seven, three
Speaker 1: women from the Dayanza College women's soccer team were at
Speaker 1: a party off campus at the home of a baseball player.
Speaker 1: This is kind of I feel like where the sports
Speaker 1: of it all comes in that these guys were all
Speaker 1: on the baseball team and they reported these and with sports,
Speaker 1: like if you're good enough to play at colleges, like
Speaker 1: I don't know how good this college is or whatnot,
Speaker 1: Like you've been being treated special this whole time. Mm hmmm,
Speaker 1: you know you're great like they want, like if you're
Speaker 1: good at sports, you get a lot of fucking leeway.
Speaker 3: Yeah. True.
Speaker 1: I will say, like at my school when if you
Speaker 1: go to D three, you don't really cause like if
Speaker 1: you're not getting any you know, like you got to
Speaker 1: keep your grades up or you're gonna get kicked out,
Speaker 1: you know.
Speaker 2: But like wait, you mean for college for college, sure,
Speaker 2: but I mean the attitude like even in high school,
Speaker 2: Like sure, even if you're playing D three, you were
Speaker 2: good at you were.
Speaker 1: Really good and you've probably gotten away with a lot.
Speaker 1: I'm just saying, like the guys that are like D one,
Speaker 1: that are like the face of the school, that like
Speaker 1: bring money into the school like that they imagine them,
Speaker 1: you know. But this, so this took place at day Alan's.
Speaker 1: These three women from the soccer team are at this
Speaker 1: party at a bait at the baseball house, right, and
Speaker 1: they report seeing a drunk seventeen year old girl, a
Speaker 1: high school student, being sexually assaulted by two or more men,
Speaker 1: surrounded by other men who were watching and cheering it on.
Speaker 1: And the guys like told them to go away, blocked
Speaker 1: the door, but they eventually got in.
Speaker 3: They got the girl out of there.
Speaker 1: They took her to the hospital and she was covered
Speaker 1: in someone else's vomit.
Speaker 3: So that's harrowing.
Speaker 1: The soccer players reported the incident to the Santa Clara
Speaker 1: Sheriff's Office, who launched an investigation, and the victim accused
Speaker 1: nine players on the day on Za baseball team of
Speaker 1: assaulting her. But she says she doesn't remember anything, and
Speaker 1: even when she was later shown photos of her attackers,
Speaker 1: she doesn't recognize them, Like nothing jogs her memory.
Speaker 2: And it's like we know about the Giselle Pellico case,
Speaker 2: so like we're not and we've been doing this podcast
Speaker 2: a while, but it's like that not one guy is
Speaker 2: like swaye, this doesn't seem right. Yee, dude is like wait, guys,
Speaker 2: like are we puking on her? Like this doesn't look good,
Speaker 2: Like I don't know, like that not one. It's like
Speaker 2: so crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like the mob mentality shit, that's like really
Speaker 1: And she went to the party planning to drink, you know,
Speaker 1: and she remembers drinking a few beers, having some vodka shots,
Speaker 1: and then like the last thing she remembers is sitting
Speaker 1: down in the living room of the party, and that's
Speaker 1: her last memory before she woke.
Speaker 3: Up in the hospital.
Speaker 1: Now, the guys say it was consensual, that she wasn't
Speaker 1: as drunk as she says she was, and she like
Speaker 1: went into the back room and demanded sex and was
Speaker 1: like giving lap dances and like making them was like,
Speaker 1: have sex with me. Now, the investigation yielded basically nothing,
Speaker 1: no arrests, even after another woman came forward to say
Speaker 1: she'd been assaulted by baseball players from Danza.
Speaker 3: Also. But also, and I do a bit about this.
Speaker 2: I don't I think it's in my uh Netflix, it's
Speaker 2: in something, but it is this thing of like if
Speaker 2: men are so scared of false acus. Yeah, it's in
Speaker 2: the especial if men are like so scared about false
Speaker 2: accusations and everything that can happen, and men are the
Speaker 2: victims of all this, Like, why aren't they more careful?
Speaker 2: Like if a drunk pilled out lune tune, blackout drunk
Speaker 2: girl is running going fuck me, fuck me, fuck like
Speaker 2: it's your like you should be careful, right, Why are
Speaker 2: you so? Why am Why aren't you more concerned with
Speaker 2: your future? You seem to say you care about right
Speaker 2: right right? Like why are you why is that not
Speaker 2: a red flag to you?
Speaker 1: Fucking yeah, if women are so diabolical that they're trying
Speaker 1: to ruin your lives with these charges, you better have
Speaker 1: you better have your head on a swivel at those
Speaker 1: prop parties.
Speaker 2: And I don't mean to try and I wasn't trying
Speaker 2: to like promote my special during a rape case.
Speaker 3: Nobody nobody thought that.
Speaker 1: You're like night owl streaming now No, but uh so,
Speaker 1: essentially this investigation is bullshit.
Speaker 3: There's no arrest. Another woman comes forward.
Speaker 1: The cops didn't even check the crime scene until twenty
Speaker 1: three hours after the victim was take into the hospital,
Speaker 1: so plenty of cleanup time for these guys. A few
Speaker 1: months later, District Attorney Delores Carr said she wouldn't charge
Speaker 1: anyone due to the lack of evidence, and that to
Speaker 1: reveal the details of the case that led her to
Speaker 1: this decision would have a chilling effect on other rape claims.
Speaker 1: And she said, quote she told the San Francisco Chronicle quote,
Speaker 1: the bottom line is, it's not about what we believe
Speaker 1: happened or think happened. It's about what we can prove happened.
Speaker 1: And the decision not to prosecute was wild widely questioned,
Speaker 1: people publicly protested. The da CAR invited Jerry Brown, who
Speaker 1: was the California Attorney General, to conduct an independent assessment
Speaker 1: of the evidence. He did and his offices report determined
Speaker 1: that there was evidence that a crime had occurred, but
Speaker 1: there was also insufficient evidence to identify those responsible.
Speaker 2: Like thesation, should there be a charge that's like sitting
Speaker 2: in a room while someone's getting raped.
Speaker 1: How about everyone gets charged? Miss that reccessory? I mean, yeah,
Speaker 1: at the very least, why is that not a crime?
Speaker 1: So oh so so someone got raped and all of
Speaker 1: you were in the room. That should be a sentence.
Speaker 3: Why not? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Well, the investigation noted that the physical descriptions of the
Speaker 1: attackers varied so widely and so they could not be
Speaker 1: accurately identified. The victim had no memory of the incident
Speaker 1: after her arrival at the party, so the independent report
Speaker 1: from the California Attorney General also said that everyone at
Speaker 1: the party being very drunk really hurt the accuracy and
Speaker 1: reliability of their memories. In June of twenty and nine,
Speaker 1: a twenty twenty episode about this case aired, and the
Speaker 1: three soccer players were interviewed. April GroEL, Lauren chief Elk
Speaker 1: and Lauren Brian's sorry if I'm butchering that last name,
Speaker 1: and they were basically like, if three witnesses aren't enough,
Speaker 1: Like why is rape even a crime? Like we saw it,
Speaker 1: Like maybe they got these girls separately and they all
Speaker 1: kind of identified these guys differently, but they saw it happening,
Speaker 1: and just nothing happened, like no one was punished at all.
Speaker 1: The victim filed a civil suit against her nine alleged attackers.
Speaker 1: A judge throughout the allegations against two of them. During
Speaker 1: the trial, her attorneys got dismissed allegations against two others
Speaker 1: because I don't know why, and they reached settlements with
Speaker 1: three of the most serious accusations of rape. So hopefully
Speaker 1: she got some, you know, financial compensation, even though she
Speaker 1: even said in an interview later she was like, people
Speaker 1: are like, well, at least you got some money, and
Speaker 1: she's like, yeah, but I know where the money came from,
Speaker 1: Like I know what I endured to get the money,
Speaker 1: and that's terrible. Like so, but there were two left
Speaker 1: that went to trial, and the two guys claimed that
Speaker 1: the sex was consensual, and their names were not and
Speaker 1: Chadwick their last names, and they claimed that the sex
Speaker 1: was consentual, and then.
Speaker 3: They obviously got off.
Speaker 1: There were two left who went to trial, and those
Speaker 1: two guys claimed obviously that the sex was consensual. And
Speaker 1: during the civil trial, another woman who was identified as
Speaker 1: Jane Doe two, indicated that she wanted to testify about
Speaker 1: her own rape by one of the defendants in Jane
Speaker 1: Doe's case, which took place ten weeks before the two
Speaker 1: thousand and seven party, which is clearly like a pattern
Speaker 1: of behavior. But later Jane do two settled her case,
Speaker 1: but a witness came forward placing one of the guys
Speaker 1: in the room during her rape. So but unfortunately Jane
Speaker 1: Do two's case was excluded from trial from the civil
Speaker 1: trial of Jane Doe so and the court found that
Speaker 1: there was not enough evidence and that there was no
Speaker 1: evidence that these guys had.
Speaker 3: Planned the attack.
Speaker 1: And guess who the judge was in the civil trial.
Speaker 1: Take a fucking guess. Does the judge Aaron Persky ring
Speaker 1: any dumb fuck bells? The guy who sentenced Brock Turner
Speaker 1: to five minutes in jail, So that he is the
Speaker 1: judge who presided over the civil trial in the Dianza
Speaker 1: rape case. And he he is the yeah, the first
Speaker 1: judge to ever get recalled in California in the last
Speaker 1: eighty years.
Speaker 3: That is Persky.
Speaker 1: So the guy we talked about, and what he did
Speaker 1: in the Danza trial was he allowed photos of Jane
Speaker 1: do the victim, to be take that were taken a
Speaker 1: year after the attack, to be entered into evidence as
Speaker 1: to refute the defense that she was suffering from PTSD.
Speaker 1: They showed photos of her like partying and having fun
Speaker 1: a year after the attack.
Speaker 2: And it's weird because it's like they care so much
Speaker 2: about men's futures and act like rape doesn't affect you know,
Speaker 2: those effects don't matter. But yet if you're not sad
Speaker 2: after the rape, I guess, but it was consensual, so
Speaker 2: why would she have pts? I can't even believe, Like,
Speaker 2: why would those even be let in? And basically the
Speaker 2: guy Zampenski or P Persky, p E.
Speaker 1: R Sky, Aaron Persky, And when he was getting all
Speaker 1: of his shit for the Stanford trial, her lawyers were like, oh,
Speaker 1: and by the way, he was really fucked up in
Speaker 1: the Dayanza case as well, letting in these photos and
Speaker 1: doing other stuff that fucked up their case and undermined
Speaker 1: the victim's case. So, of course, on April seventh of
Speaker 1: twenty eleven, the jury in the civil case found the
Speaker 1: two guys not liable for the allegations against them, so
Speaker 1: no damages were awarded.
Speaker 3: So nobody pays.
Speaker 1: I mean, I guess there were three of them had
Speaker 1: to pay out of court settlements, but no actual legal
Speaker 1: ramifications came to any of these guys. So that's a
Speaker 1: nightmare thing that happens in two thousand and seven. And
Speaker 1: I love god. I googled the guy and I love
Speaker 1: when it says former judge. Yes, yeah, former judge, motherfucker.
Speaker 1: I want to write him a letter. We got to
Speaker 1: get his address. I'm going to get his address. We'll
Speaker 1: keep you guys posted. So obviously this case, this case
Speaker 1: is pretty well known Daon's I guess I hadn't heard
Speaker 1: of it, but it was at this point in time,
Speaker 1: like there are movies about gang rapes. There is like
Speaker 1: all kinds of college stuff that's happened. This show has
Speaker 1: done many episodes about things like this. And then obviously
Speaker 1: this episode is based on this famous Rolling Stone article.
Speaker 1: And what Lisa mentioned earlier was that it's interesting that
Speaker 1: porn Star's Requiem, which is episode five of this season,
Speaker 1: also stemmed from a Rolling Stone article about like a
Speaker 1: porn star going to duke. So it's just it's interesting
Speaker 1: that in the same season two big episodes, like two
Speaker 1: episodes are from.
Speaker 3: Rolling Stone articles basically based on them.
Speaker 1: But there is this massive article that comes out in November,
Speaker 1: November nineteenth of twenty fourteen that's called a Rape on
Speaker 1: Campus and it's written by Sabrina Early and it's about
Speaker 1: an alleged gang rape of a student who's called Jackie
Speaker 1: in the article, who was a student at UVA.
Speaker 3: And that's a pseudonym, of course.
Speaker 1: And what you were just pointing out before is that
Speaker 1: there earlier in this season there it was the episode
Speaker 1: porn Star's Requiem, same kind of deal because it's the
Speaker 1: same dean. We were talking about, the same mean dean lady,
Speaker 1: and it's the same it's episode five. And basically earlier
Speaker 1: that year, Belle Knox, the porn star who came forward,
Speaker 1: you know, about being assaulted. She gave her story to
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone, and I can only assume that Rolling Stone
Speaker 1: was kind of like, Yeah, it's our job to sort
Speaker 1: of take on this kind of investigative reporting and try
Speaker 1: to like end rape culture, try to you know, call
Speaker 1: it out at least, and that's why this kind of
Speaker 1: story got greenlit. Right, So, but a lot of problems
Speaker 1: with this, A lot of problems with this story.
Speaker 3: Okay, So similar to the Danza case.
Speaker 1: She was at a party Jackie in twenty twelve, and
Speaker 1: this time it was at a frat house Phi Kapa PSI,
Speaker 1: and she said her date, a guy named Drew, not
Speaker 1: a real name, led her to a bedroom where at
Speaker 1: her at the frat, where she was gang raped for
Speaker 1: three hours by several members of his fraternity.
Speaker 3: As part of their initiation ritual.
Speaker 1: She said seven guys sexually assaulted her while her date
Speaker 1: and another guy shouted instructions and they dehumanized her by
Speaker 1: calling her it like grab its leg and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: So that's where the episode got this kind of that
Speaker 1: whole language.
Speaker 3: And the final guy.
Speaker 1: In the article, she says that the final guy who
Speaker 1: like got on top of her looked like he was
Speaker 1: going to throw up, Like he looked nervous, like he
Speaker 1: didn't want to do it, and she recognized him from
Speaker 1: like anthropology class, and like in the article, she says,
Speaker 1: she was like staring in his eyes to like silently
Speaker 1: be like, please, don't do this. Then the guys were
Speaker 1: all hazing him and calling him a pussy and and
Speaker 1: he eventually one of them handed him a bottle, and
Speaker 1: so he assaulted her with a bottle. And I'm wondering
Speaker 1: if that's where I got my confusion in the brock
Speaker 1: Turner case, because I always remember I said that on
Speaker 1: that episode, I had this like memory that he had
Speaker 1: assaulted her with a bottle, And I think it comes
Speaker 1: from this case because this happened. I was living in
Speaker 1: New York when this article came out. I didn't like
Speaker 1: subscribe to Rolling Stone, but I read every second of
Speaker 1: this article, like I remember reading it and being like horrified.
Speaker 1: So Jackie leaves the party at three am, blood on
Speaker 1: her bruised. She tells her three best friends, who the
Speaker 1: article calls Andy, Randall, and Cindy. According to the article,
Speaker 1: these friends convinced her not to go to the hospital
Speaker 1: because Andy and Randall wanted to join the frat and
Speaker 1: they were like, it's going to look bad because you're
Speaker 1: our friend for us to get if you go.
Speaker 3: And they were I kind.
Speaker 1: Of like like shrugging it off, being like, why didn't
Speaker 1: you just have fun with it a bunch of hot
Speaker 1: guys from this frat, Like come on. But then the
Speaker 1: article reports on the usual aftermath of an attack like
Speaker 1: this Jeff Jackie suffered academically, she withdrew socially, she was traumatized, depressed.
Speaker 3: It further alleges that when she.
Speaker 1: Reported the attack in May of twenty thirteen, so that's
Speaker 1: about six or seven months later, the dean and head
Speaker 1: of UVa's sexual misconduct board, whose name was Nicole Eramo,
Speaker 1: she was she offered three options. She said, you can
Speaker 1: file a complain with the police, you can file a
Speaker 1: complain with the school, or you can face your attackers
Speaker 1: the in my presence, like I would be there to
Speaker 1: mediate and tell them how you feel.
Speaker 3: So these are the three options they give her.
Speaker 1: UVA would not take any action unless Jackie gave up
Speaker 1: the names of the attackers or the name of the frat,
Speaker 1: And later that year, the dean connected Jackie with m
Speaker 1: Only Renda, who was a UVA a lum and a
Speaker 1: recent graduate and a staff member now and leader of
Speaker 1: the college's sexual assault support group called One Less and
Speaker 1: Renda is probably who they were basing the character on
Speaker 1: in the SVU episode, although she did not have the
Speaker 1: same coercive according to this my research, like she did
Speaker 1: not have the same kind of like coercive behavior towards
Speaker 1: the victim. She basically is just the one who suggested
Speaker 1: Jackie to the Rolling Stone reporter. Like when the Rolling
Speaker 1: Stone reporter came to her, she was like, Oh, let
Speaker 1: me see if I can connect you with Jackie. So
Speaker 1: after the article was published, the UVA president Teresa Sullivan
Speaker 1: is shocked. She sat with the reporter for a forty
Speaker 1: four minute interview, during which time the reporter never brought
Speaker 1: up Jackie or any of the allegations that she wrote
Speaker 1: about in the article. Phi Kapa Si the frat voluntarily
Speaker 1: suspended their chapter activities at UVA for the duration of
Speaker 1: the investigation. Their frat was graffitied with phrases like suspend
Speaker 1: us UVA Center for Rape Studies and stop raping people,
Speaker 1: and UVa's student newspaper, The Cavalier Daily, wrote, quote, For some,
Speaker 1: the piece is an unfounded attack on our school. For others,
Speaker 1: it is a recognition of a harsh reality. And for
Speaker 1: what I suspect is a large majority of us, it
Speaker 1: falls somewhere in between. But people marched, people protested, And
Speaker 1: then the criticisms of the article started to emerge, and
Speaker 1: they kind of started with other journalists who argued that
Speaker 1: Early seemed to be selectively presenting information, like using confirmation bias.
Speaker 3: To write the article.
Speaker 1: She didn't speak to any of the alleged assailants, nor
Speaker 1: did she speak to any of the three friends who
Speaker 1: Jackie disclosed to following the attack. It was also discovered
Speaker 1: that there was no party on the night that Jackie
Speaker 1: says this happened. Nobody in the frat matched the description
Speaker 1: of the guy who orchestrated the whole thing. This guy
Speaker 1: drew Jackie's accounts of the layout of the house were incorrect,
Speaker 1: the fraternity officials disputed. The authors claim in the article
Speaker 1: that this was like an initiation ritual for the pledges
Speaker 1: because this happened in the fall, and pledges at UVA.
Speaker 1: Pledging at Uva happens in the spring, so that doesn't
Speaker 1: make sense. The Washington Posts did a report later where
Speaker 1: they interviewed Jackie and two of the friends that she
Speaker 1: met that night, and Jackie told the Posts that she
Speaker 1: felt manipulated by the author of the article Early, and
Speaker 1: that she claimed she asked early not to quote her
Speaker 1: in the article, and that her assailants not be contacted.
Speaker 1: The second thing, obviously she abided by, but not the first.
Speaker 1: She's like the whole point of the article. The two
Speaker 1: friends confirmed to the Posts that they remembered meeting Jackie
Speaker 1: on the night of the incident, but that she was distraught,
Speaker 1: but not visibly injured or bloody, like not bruised and
Speaker 1: bloodied the way that the article describes. They also said
Speaker 1: the story she told them didn't match what was in
Speaker 1: the Rolling Stone article, Like I guess, I mean, they're.
Speaker 3: Still bad people. Those friends are terrible people.
Speaker 2: And I was thinking, like that's the number one lesson
Speaker 2: you parents should be teaching their kids. Like you don't
Speaker 2: know these people you're meeting all these new people, you
Speaker 2: don't know them.
Speaker 3: You don't know where they've come from, like who raised them?
Speaker 2: Nothing, Like they want to be in a frat with
Speaker 2: people that just fucking raped you, Yeah and telling you
Speaker 2: not to go to the cops.
Speaker 3: Those are the worst friends ever.
Speaker 1: Like I can't well, the other thing is okay, but
Speaker 1: basically what they were.
Speaker 2: Told because even if nothing, even if she just looks
Speaker 2: kind of described be like let's go tell the ta,
Speaker 2: like let's go do something.
Speaker 1: Yes, their friend's reaction was not good at all, but
Speaker 1: they all.
Speaker 3: Get an a detest, like no encouragement. Yeah she said,
Speaker 3: they said.
Speaker 1: Oh, she told us that she was forced to give
Speaker 1: blowjobs to a bunch of guys, not like what was
Speaker 1: described in the article. Like not that that's better, but
Speaker 1: like it's it's also still assault. But Ryan Duffin is
Speaker 1: the guy who was described as Randall in the article.
Speaker 1: So his real name is Ryan Duffin, and he told
Speaker 1: the Washington Posts that he never spoken to any reporter
Speaker 1: from Rolling Stone, even though Erdaly had claimed him as
Speaker 1: a source. Allegedly, other students who spoke with Early said
Speaker 1: they were uncomfortable talking to her because it was clear
Speaker 1: she had an agenda. And then there's Drew, who was
Speaker 1: this UVA junior who took Jackie to the fraternity and
Speaker 1: basically orchestrated this entire rape. Jackie's friends in the story
Speaker 1: provided evidence that they were introduced electronically to Drew, like
Speaker 1: over email and texts as a student named Haven Monahan,
Speaker 1: and Jackie forwarded messages from this guy Monahan, and he
Speaker 1: exchanged messages with Jackie's friends, including sending a picture of
Speaker 1: himself directly to Ryan Duffin. But then it was revealed
Speaker 1: that there was no student by the name Haven Monahan
Speaker 1: at UVA, and that the picture that he sent was
Speaker 1: actually a picture of someone Jackie went to high school with,
Speaker 1: and that the different phone numbers that Monahan, I'm using
Speaker 1: air quotes now used to contact Jackie and her friends
Speaker 1: were Internet numbers, like they can be easily, you know,
Speaker 1: anyone can use them to make it seem like they're
Speaker 1: coming from a phone. And then there were love letters
Speaker 1: that Jackie had written to Haven Monahan, and then Haven
Speaker 1: Monahan had forwarded them to Ryan Duffin, and they're plagiarized
Speaker 1: from scripts from Dawson's Creek and scrubs.
Speaker 3: So what the fuck? That's like a whole piece of this.
Speaker 1: I feel like I never and SVU doesn't do get
Speaker 1: into all of this, and I think for good reason.
Speaker 3: And so.
Speaker 1: The reporting from the Washington Post uncovered that Haven Monahan
Speaker 1: was basically an amalgamation of people that Jackie had gone
Speaker 1: to high school with who were completely unconnected to UVA.
Speaker 1: So allegedly she made up this guy, Haven Monahan in
Speaker 1: an attempt to catfish Ryan duff It, who had not
Speaker 1: reciprocated Jackie's romantic feelings towards him.
Speaker 3: So then I don't know what, Like it's hard.
Speaker 1: To say, like if an assault happened at all, because
Speaker 1: she made up this whole person, and then did she
Speaker 1: sort of make up this assault to garner sympathy. And
Speaker 1: then she spoke to Rolling Stone thinking that it was
Speaker 1: going to be totally anonymous and that it was just
Speaker 1: a story about advocacy and support of rape survivors. She
Speaker 1: had no idea this was going to be like telling
Speaker 1: her story or like anything like that.
Speaker 3: She really didn't think that was what was going to happen.
Speaker 1: So it is possible, but it's also completely possible that
Speaker 1: something happened and that her you know, she has PTSD
Speaker 1: and fucked up all the details. But the guy who
Speaker 1: she said brought her to this party doesn't exist.
Speaker 3: So yeah.
Speaker 1: So a few weeks after the story was published, Rolling
Speaker 1: Stone publish an apology admitting to discrepancies in the article.
Speaker 1: The deputy managing editor tried to resign, but Rolling Stone's
Speaker 1: owner Jan Wenner would not accept it. Whenner later went
Speaker 1: on to describe Jackie as quote a really expert, fabulous storyteller,
Speaker 1: the media was not into any of Rolling Stone's apologies.
Speaker 1: They were really not taking responsibility for like how damaging
Speaker 1: the article could potentially be to several people in the article,
Speaker 1: mostly Nicole Aramo the dean, because she's the only one
Speaker 1: that's like, you know, the frat is I don't, I
Speaker 1: can't remember if the frat is named. They are the
Speaker 1: frat is named, so it damages the frat. But the
Speaker 1: only person specifically is the dean who it looks in
Speaker 1: the article like has completely mishandled this. So the article
Speaker 1: was completely retracted in April of twenty fifteen, so it's
Speaker 1: been published published for about five months, and then in
Speaker 1: May of twenty fifteen, Nicole Aramo, the Dean, filed a
Speaker 1: seven point five million dollar defamations lost in Charlottesville Circuit
Speaker 1: Court against Rolling Stone and Early and the company that
Speaker 1: owns Rolling Stone, claiming damage to her reputation and emotional distress.
Speaker 1: She was awarded three million dollars, one million from rolling
Speaker 1: Stone and two million from the author. I don't know
Speaker 1: how a random Rolling Stone author has two million dollars
Speaker 1: to even give, but sometimes these civil suits are like symbolic.
Speaker 3: In November of twenty.
Speaker 1: Fifteen, Phi Kapa PSI filed a twenty five million dollar
Speaker 1: lawsuit against Rolling Stone, and that was settled for one
Speaker 1: point sixty five million, okay. So, in the course of
Speaker 1: the civil suit, Jackie sat for a three hour taped deposition,
Speaker 1: and while she told Early in twenty fourteen, quote I
Speaker 1: was sexually assaulted by a lot of guys at that frat,
Speaker 1: and that afterwards she said, quote I remember I felt
Speaker 1: so sick all the time end quote, And then in
Speaker 1: the twenty sixteen deposition she said so two years later,
Speaker 1: she says in this deposition, even the so she has
Speaker 1: told the magazine.
Speaker 3: I was actually assaulted. I felt so sick about it.
Speaker 1: Now in this deposition, she's saying, oh, my memory was
Speaker 1: quote unquote foggy, and I'm suffering from PTSD. So she
Speaker 1: testified to this these like in this lawyer deposition, quote,
Speaker 1: I stand by the account I gave Rolling Stone.
Speaker 3: I believed it to be true at the time.
Speaker 1: And then when she was asked about Eramo the Dean,
Speaker 1: she said, quote, she did everything right.
Speaker 3: She did what an advocate was supposed to do. And
Speaker 3: then she you.
Speaker 1: Know, basically reiterated I thought the article was going to
Speaker 1: be about survivor's advocacy and support. But when I found
Speaker 1: out that I was the focus of the article, I
Speaker 1: remember feeling upset, she says, quote, I remember feeling upset.
Speaker 1: I remember feeling scared and overwhelmed and unsure of what
Speaker 1: to do. And she told them that she was feeling
Speaker 1: a lot of pressure from different angles, so like it
Speaker 1: could be something happened and she made it into a
Speaker 1: bigger thing, or could be nothing happened, and that once
Speaker 1: she said it, the story got away from her. And
Speaker 1: I don't know, but she said about the author of
Speaker 1: the article, she said, quote, my interpretation was different than
Speaker 1: what was written. But she also said her intention was good.
Speaker 1: She did her best to reflect what I told.
Speaker 5: Her, So.
Speaker 3: It's really listed, it's twisted. Yeah, so this is like crazy, yeah,
Speaker 3: And it's like.
Speaker 1: We've seen that like infographic right where there's like a
Speaker 1: hundred bodies and then there's like half of one body
Speaker 1: that's colored that like these that are colored white, and
Speaker 1: there's like half of one that's colored black. And it's
Speaker 1: like this represents the number of people who falsely report
Speaker 1: rape allegations, you know, Like of course everyone likes to
Speaker 1: bring up this article, and the author of the article
Speaker 1: did not do her due diligence, like she did not check,
Speaker 1: Like you didn't check there was a party that night,
Speaker 1: Like you didn't check for some of this shit like
Speaker 1: Rolling Stone, drop the Ball, Like you guys have fact checkers.
Speaker 3: You guys didn't check.
Speaker 1: On this stuff, like this was a big thing to
Speaker 1: publish when you didn't have the fact straight.
Speaker 2: And but it's kind of like the episode for me
Speaker 2: where it's like something bad happened and I don't you know, yeah,
Speaker 2: I don't know, but that the guy didn't exist.
Speaker 1: It's like that the guy didn't exist. But I know,
Speaker 1: people lie all the time, like an SVU. It happens
Speaker 1: all the time.
Speaker 2: Like you don't want to say who it was, Like,
Speaker 2: I just feel like through the show, we see so
Speaker 2: many people lie that have been victimized. Yeah, and totally
Speaker 2: Amanda ceiphered. Remember that episode she lied the whole time,
Speaker 2: but at the end of the day she was raped. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: I hope she wasn't raped. I hope, you know, I
Speaker 2: hope it was a I don't know, a PCP thing,
Speaker 2: like I don't know, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I hope it wasn't just like, yeah,
Speaker 1: something she made up to.
Speaker 3: Get sympathy from some friends.
Speaker 1: I mean, the story was different, and then when she
Speaker 1: got connected to a Rolling Stone reporter, she changed the
Speaker 1: details to make it more.
Speaker 3: Didn't think that she I don't know. This is also
Speaker 3: a person who's.
Speaker 1: Making up a person to get the attention of someone
Speaker 1: she's romantically interested in, and that's going to a lot
Speaker 1: of lengths like copying scripts and setting up Internet numbers
Speaker 1: and posing as someone like a full catfish operation. Something
Speaker 1: is going on psychologically with her where she needs attention,
Speaker 1: and so I don't but I totally am open to
Speaker 1: the fact that something could have absolutely happened to her.
Speaker 3: But you're thinking more she this isn't mentally a woman.
Speaker 1: I'm thinking that she was having some issues and that yeah,
Speaker 1: and that she possibly fabricated this. And then when she
Speaker 1: spoke to a reporter, she thought, oh, this is just
Speaker 1: gonna be about rape survivors and advocates and I'll just
Speaker 1: talk about I mean, the number of women that have
Speaker 1: been sexually assaulted in some form is so massive, Like, definitely,
Speaker 1: I believe that Jackie, at some point in her life,
Speaker 1: maybe she was assaulted and it caused this crazy catfishing
Speaker 1: psychosis thing to develop where she was like, I'm not
Speaker 1: worthy of love if I don't. You know who knows,
Speaker 1: Like I'm not a psychiatrist, but yes, or a psychologist,
Speaker 1: stop lying, but like.
Speaker 3: Tell them the truth.
Speaker 2: I absolutely believe you've been moonlighting all this time.
Speaker 1: Something could fully have happened to her years before, and
Speaker 1: maybe when she wasn't even a uva that like she's repressed.
Speaker 3: I mean, who knows, but.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but she definitely yeah.
Speaker 2: Set it back thirty years. It's like crazy, one false accusation.
Speaker 2: All women are liars. Every guy can rape, and it's like,
Speaker 2: well not not all of us.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so crazy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, double standards are wild to witness.
Speaker 3: You know, yeah, totally in the world.
Speaker 1: Yeah, there's just as long as there's one little exception
Speaker 1: they can point to of, you know something, they're like,
Speaker 1: you know, so, yeah, a obviously disturbing episode, disturbing, real
Speaker 1: true life crime, the article all that, all of it is.
Speaker 1: Grape culture is real, and I do hope things are
Speaker 1: changing somewhat on college campuses. But let's move on because
Speaker 1: we have a great guest who's going to cleanse the
Speaker 1: palette right now. Our guest today is an actor who
Speaker 1: is best known for her roles on shows like Parenthood
Speaker 1: and Into the Badlands, but today you know her as
Speaker 1: victim Heather Manning. Please enjoy our conbo with the talented
Speaker 1: Ali Ayanitez. So you were like a child actor and
Speaker 1: how old were you when you got this SVU? Were
Speaker 1: you like seventeen or eighteen?
Speaker 7: You guys, I was sixteen? Whoa, which is crazy? Like
Speaker 7: I went back and watched the episode and like the
Speaker 7: way that I love compared to all the guys in
Speaker 7: the episode, like it's so stark to.
Speaker 5: Me, I look so young.
Speaker 3: I wonder if they did that on.
Speaker 7: Her playing an eighteen year old maybe yeah, yeah, yeah, maybe, I.
Speaker 1: Mean, well, because normally it's like a normally it's like
Speaker 1: a twenty five year old playing a seventeen.
Speaker 3: Year old or in eighteen right exactly what for?
Speaker 2: Yeah, for the Ryan Murphy Monica Lewinsky, I heard they
Speaker 2: cast her really young to make it like obvious how
Speaker 2: much younger she really was than all of these people.
Speaker 2: She was twenty two, So I wonder if they did
Speaker 2: it on purpose or not or yeah, but the guys
Speaker 2: like standing in court, it's menacing. It's like just six
Speaker 2: sprat guys in a row. It is like, obviously danger
Speaker 2: is afoot. So wait, you're sixteen years old?
Speaker 3: Would you get this? Have you been like have did
Speaker 3: you watch jes Be You?
Speaker 7: Or like I was you? Guys, I was obsessed with
Speaker 7: svuh yes as as a kid, I watched it. I
Speaker 7: watched every episode like I would just I watch it
Speaker 7: for like twelve hours a day.
Speaker 5: It's it's it's probably.
Speaker 7: Like the number one thing that I've done where I
Speaker 7: was starstruck wow, because it was especially like at the time,
Speaker 7: and I'd auditioned for it before I sent in a
Speaker 7: tape because it's obviously in New York and.
Speaker 5: I didn't get that episode, and I.
Speaker 7: Was really bummed, And then I got another audition for
Speaker 7: this episode and I booked it. I booked it off
Speaker 7: of a tape.
Speaker 1: To and like, when you saw the script was Hudson University,
Speaker 1: were you like, oh.
Speaker 2: No, I can't yeah as a fan.
Speaker 3: To be at Hudson University.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, like nothing good as ever, They're never like
Speaker 1: we're going to We're actually going to a talk at
Speaker 1: Hudson University. It's always bad. It's always bad at Hudson University.
Speaker 1: Where did you film all the exterior shots? And it
Speaker 1: looked cool?
Speaker 5: It was fucking freezing. Sorry I shouldn't be.
Speaker 7: Okay, great, amazing, Yeah, it was really really cool. Is
Speaker 7: that Columbia?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I was wondering because you know, I think this episode
Speaker 1: is more based on sort of like the Rolling Stone
Speaker 1: article that came out that was youater, like sort of
Speaker 1: debunked and then like but at the same time, that
Speaker 1: huge thing was happening at Columbia with this girl that
Speaker 1: made her senior thesis project, like carrying her mattress. So
Speaker 1: it's interesting that in the light in the wake of
Speaker 1: all that, SBU would be like, hey, Columbia, can we
Speaker 1: shoot there?
Speaker 3: And Columbia would be like, no problem.
Speaker 5: True, I guess money. I mean yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because they they go around to a lot of
Speaker 1: different colleges.
Speaker 3: When we've talked to people, like and.
Speaker 1: That's interesting because I actually went to a college that
Speaker 1: was in the midst of a rape scandal.
Speaker 3: I know that is really interesting, you know, But so okay, cold?
Speaker 3: And how was it shooting on the streets of New York?
Speaker 7: It was, I mean, it was amazing. It was like
Speaker 7: everything that you want from that.
Speaker 5: I love.
Speaker 7: I love shooting in New York because you're so raw,
Speaker 7: like you're just out there, You're just on the street
Speaker 7: and anyone can just walk up.
Speaker 1: Did you have a parent with on set with You're sick?
Speaker 3: Yeah? Which one?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 3: My mom?
Speaker 5: Okay, mom my mom came with me, Yeah, and was chill.
Speaker 3: What's her behavior? Did she watch us VI with you?
Speaker 7: She?
Speaker 5: I don't remember. I think it was mostly me and
Speaker 5: my sister.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 5: But she was always great.
Speaker 7: She was always really supportive and like gave me my space.
Speaker 5: I was such like a hard word.
Speaker 7: I mean, I still am, just like I always really
Speaker 7: want to do a really good job. It's definitely like
Speaker 7: the child actor and me being like I need to
Speaker 7: do a good job.
Speaker 5: But I remember I woke up at like four.
Speaker 7: Am in the hotel and I went downstairs and I'm
Speaker 7: journaling for my character. And she was always just really
Speaker 7: supportive in Chill. She wasn't like a crazy stage mom,
Speaker 7: which is a blessing.
Speaker 2: For Yeah, and it seems like you were self motivated.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 5: I was extremely self motivated.
Speaker 2: It was extremely self journaling as a mere character is
Speaker 2: like so theater kid.
Speaker 5: I know, no, I know, I know, I mean I was.
Speaker 5: I was a theater kid.
Speaker 7: I did so many musicals when I was younger, and
Speaker 7: then like moved into film and TV.
Speaker 5: But yeah, I was so like I just really wanted
Speaker 5: to do a good.
Speaker 7: Job because it was like I was like, this is
Speaker 7: my favorite show, Like I'm working with all these actors.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's such a hard storyline, especially when you
Speaker 2: watches the show, because then it's like you never want it,
Speaker 2: you never you know, false accusations are so rare, and
Speaker 2: the perception of so any there.
Speaker 3: Those episodes definitely stand out.
Speaker 2: And then you were victimized and then this woman was
Speaker 2: supposed to help you and didn't you know it's.
Speaker 1: Very woman like used you as like the political tough episode.
Speaker 5: You know, it's a super tough episode. They wouldn't.
Speaker 7: I don't think they would make an episode like that now,
Speaker 7: Like maybe I'm wrong.
Speaker 1: With all the with like the recanting and stuff like that,
Speaker 1: with like changing your story and this and that.
Speaker 5: I mean it's an I mean it is interesting.
Speaker 7: It makes you think, but it's heavy, Like the end
Speaker 7: is the the end is heavy.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 3: When she's like I couldn't believe how it ended.
Speaker 1: When she's just like, there's kind of nothing we can do,
Speaker 1: I was like, that's never how sbu ends.
Speaker 3: There's always something she can do.
Speaker 5: And I'm like, don't they have the DNA? Yeah, what
Speaker 5: do you mean? I don't know, but yeah, I was so.
Speaker 7: I was so excited also to work with Laura Frasier
Speaker 7: because who played like my professor.
Speaker 5: Because I love Breaking Bad. I mean I love Breaking Bad.
Speaker 3: Why did I not recognize her?
Speaker 7: She plays the okay, she plays like the really art
Speaker 7: tight girl who's like yeah, yeah, who's always like tweaking out,
Speaker 7: and then I think he kills her with Splenda is
Speaker 7: the Breaking Bad spoiler, But I feel like I can
Speaker 7: spoil it.
Speaker 5: It's better.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's been a long time.
Speaker 5: But yeah, she was she's amazing.
Speaker 7: And then Michael Slavis, who directed the episode like a
Speaker 7: bunch of breaking bad. I think she directed some of
Speaker 7: it too, So I was like, just really excited to
Speaker 7: work with all these people.
Speaker 2: Is this is she the one where she's like rich
Speaker 2: and they come in like Mike, Mike comes into her
Speaker 2: house like she works within the chemicals.
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: I did not really did not know who you were
Speaker 1: talking about until I saw that her name is Lydia
Speaker 1: Rodarte Quail and I was like, yes, I know exactly
Speaker 1: who this is.
Speaker 2: And then I don't think you had scenes with her,
Speaker 2: but I loved the woman who played the dean or like,
Speaker 2: it's like such a classic type of woman.
Speaker 1: She's a classic dean. That's like I actually am not
Speaker 1: going to help the police with this. It will look bad.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Wait, So tell us how you went from starstruck to
Speaker 2: like having to do your job.
Speaker 3: I guess.
Speaker 7: I mean, I I think I just really locked it.
Speaker 5: And that's like not a good answer.
Speaker 7: I think, I you know, I just I I so
Speaker 7: even when I was young, I really cared about being
Speaker 7: truthful as an actor, and I just I just love it,
Speaker 7: like I love playing off someone and like getting into
Speaker 7: someone else's head and I love the psychology of all
Speaker 7: of it. So I think I was really into that
Speaker 7: as well, and that was almost like equally as important
Speaker 7: to me as like as like the starstruckness, you know.
Speaker 7: I think I was really focused on her and like
Speaker 7: creating the character and just acting.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 7: I also, I mean everyone was really really nice, Like
Speaker 7: Marishka was wonderful. I remember even thinking like I was like, girl,
Speaker 7: you've been doing this for sixteen seasons and you are
Speaker 7: locked in with me. Like I remember I was doing
Speaker 7: a scene with her and she was so she was
Speaker 7: so locked into me, and I remember her being like
Speaker 7: thank you for like giving me so much, on giving
Speaker 7: me so much on my coverage, like like she she
Speaker 7: was not going through the motions, which I like, how
Speaker 7: are you not doing that? After doing this for sixteen.
Speaker 1: Years and like it's honestly been another ten And everybody
Speaker 1: says like she's kind of the same, like she's still
Speaker 1: really like good and so like dialed into her care
Speaker 1: like the scene and like yeah, everybody just says that
Speaker 1: she's so I think that's like why.
Speaker 7: So yeah, I remember. Also I have this memory of
Speaker 7: like when I went in for my fitting. They were like, oh,
Speaker 7: like for the scenes where you're talking about the assault,
Speaker 7: will give you like a big sweater.
Speaker 5: We call them victim sweaters. I don't know if anyone else.
Speaker 3: Wow, like so happy.
Speaker 2: We've actually intel modeled one of our merch sweatshirts over
Speaker 2: a victim sweatshirt, but they didn't know there was.
Speaker 3: An official name to them. I like that it's victim sweater.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's victim sweater.
Speaker 7: I thought that was really like kind of like fucked
Speaker 7: up and funny.
Speaker 2: I was like, well, I have a question about it.
Speaker 2: I Oh, I love your baby blue sweater. I haven't written.
Speaker 2: I also loved your eyeshadow and lips.
Speaker 1: It like your wardrobe and makeup were really great for
Speaker 1: this character.
Speaker 3: I did love it. I noticed.
Speaker 5: I agree. They they definitely, I mean I had no
Speaker 5: saying that.
Speaker 7: They definitely made her really like to me, she's very
Speaker 7: like midwestern.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I mean it makes sense that I guess
Speaker 1: like after someone's gone through something very traumatic that they
Speaker 1: would sort of like want to hide themselves a little bit,
Speaker 1: or like hide their body, and that's why you're wearing
Speaker 1: this like like just with your sleeves or something.
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, they said that. They were like, so so
Speaker 7: you can, so you can do this.
Speaker 1: It's like John really has a joke about Sweater acting right,
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, you know.
Speaker 5: I love Yeah, it's amazing.
Speaker 3: We need we need him and Kate on SVU immediately.
Speaker 5: Yes we do, we do, we really do.
Speaker 2: What else do you remember or like, did anything bring
Speaker 2: you back while watching it as well?
Speaker 7: I remember, hmmm, I remember in that in that last
Speaker 7: scene I had with Marishka, I remember I was having
Speaker 7: a hard time and I remember the director of Michael
Speaker 7: Slavis pulled me aside and he was like, this happens
Speaker 7: to people, Like this is real, this happens to girls.
Speaker 5: And then I was just like I lost it. I
Speaker 5: was so emotional.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 7: Yeah, that was a really intense moment. That was such
Speaker 7: such good direction. It's it's a moment that I'll always
Speaker 7: remember because I don't think directors always have to do this.
Speaker 7: But he was feeling with me, like he was in
Speaker 7: there with me, and that's what I needed, Like I
Speaker 7: needed someone to let me know how important.
Speaker 5: It was, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, that like someone could see this sound like
Speaker 1: really resonate with your characters.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, yeah, I'm looking through the IMDb cast right now,
Speaker 2: and there is one girl in her is goth girl.
Speaker 3: I love that.
Speaker 5: See okay, yes she is actually the director's daughter.
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, yeah, I just yeah, Oh my god.
Speaker 5: That's something that I remembered when I was watching it back.
Speaker 5: I was like, oh, yeah, that was his that was
Speaker 5: his daughter.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, that's so fun fun.
Speaker 2: What is this show? Into the bad Lands? Action packed?
Speaker 5: Yes, martial art show?
Speaker 3: Cool?
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, it was that.
Speaker 7: I mean that was like a huge part of my
Speaker 7: life because I was on that show for four years.
Speaker 5: It was amazing. It was Yeah.
Speaker 7: We literally did before the first season a six week
Speaker 7: training camp and then the next like three we did
Speaker 7: a three week training camp, and I would train in
Speaker 7: between with people from like stuntings from Beijing. There are
Speaker 7: people that worked on the Matrix and like Crouching Tiger,
Speaker 7: Hit and Dragon like.
Speaker 5: Oh, it was an incredible experience.
Speaker 2: Now, did you have any background in that? What was
Speaker 2: the auditioning for that?
Speaker 7: No, they wanted a dance sir, and I did dance
Speaker 7: when I was a kid, like, but I didn't compete
Speaker 7: and I wasn't good. But I think my agents told
Speaker 7: them that I was a dancer. Which is which is true.
Speaker 7: And then they just trained us. I mean they, I
Speaker 7: mean you know, we had like the best people in
Speaker 7: the world to train you, and we all worked really
Speaker 7: hard and just learned a lot.
Speaker 5: And now when I do stunts, like, if I ever
Speaker 5: have to do stunts, I'm.
Speaker 7: Amazed by how I hand at them, just because I
Speaker 7: did it for so many years and I'm so comfortable
Speaker 7: with it, like and I and I loved it.
Speaker 5: I actually really really loved doing stunts.
Speaker 2: It's yeah, really in my dream and you were fighting.
Speaker 2: And then where was the training camps?
Speaker 5: The first time was in New Orleans because we shot
Speaker 5: the first season in New Orleans, and then the rest
Speaker 5: were in Ireland because we shot in Ireland. We shot
Speaker 5: in Dublin School.
Speaker 3: Same.
Speaker 5: I loved it there so much.
Speaker 3: I really enjoyed it there.
Speaker 5: It's the best, the people, the it's.
Speaker 1: The And then you just did this like short that's
Speaker 1: part of like the Jason universe.
Speaker 3: Right, Yeah? I did Is that Friday the thirteenth? Yes? Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1: My husband recently told my four year old son the
Speaker 1: entire story of Jason.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I was like, wow, that's amazing.
Speaker 1: It's like I'm scared and I was like, can I
Speaker 1: talk to you in the other room please?
Speaker 5: But that's so funny?
Speaker 1: Is this like so are you like, are you like
Speaker 1: into being like a scream queen or like what kind
Speaker 1: of was this?
Speaker 3: Like yeah, freaky, like.
Speaker 5: This kind of thing I do.
Speaker 1: I do.
Speaker 5: I like it a lot.
Speaker 7: I find it, like, I find it really cathartic actually
Speaker 7: to be in a really uncomfortable, like life threatening, horrible position,
Speaker 7: but like know that you're obviously fine, like you know,
Speaker 7: like you're going through the worst possible thing, like imagining it,
Speaker 7: and then you go home and you're just on the
Speaker 7: couch and you're cozy and you're fine. I mean, it's
Speaker 7: sort of like the experience of watching a horror film,
Speaker 7: where like you go and you watch it and you're horrified,
Speaker 7: but you're fine.
Speaker 2: It's famous, some ruined my life forever.
Speaker 5: That's true.
Speaker 7: That's true.
Speaker 3: Truly. I don't know about that. And it doesn't need
Speaker 3: to be horror.
Speaker 2: My one of my best friends always says that like
Speaker 2: HOLOCAUSTUS movies should be considered horror, and like advertise the
Speaker 2: way because she's like those haunt me, like the Pianist
Speaker 2: haunts me all the time.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, I get seen from that.
Speaker 2: There's one in particular scene I think about all the
Speaker 2: time and I wish I don't not that I wish
Speaker 2: I hadn't seen it, but it fucked me up a lot.
Speaker 5: Yeah, that's so true.
Speaker 3: And it follows fucked me up.
Speaker 2: I mean it follows like I can't even rewatch it
Speaker 2: all the way.
Speaker 3: I really scares me.
Speaker 2: Wait, what stunts have you done since Into the bad Lands?
Speaker 2: Are people like, whoa are the others stunt people? Like
Speaker 2: they could tell?
Speaker 7: Yeah?
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think I think they can probably tell. And
Speaker 5: I also will just tell them.
Speaker 7: Like I think a big thing with actors is some
Speaker 7: people will be like, hey, like we have to do this,
Speaker 7: and the actor is like a kind of like that
Speaker 7: sounds great, like let's do it.
Speaker 5: Yeah I did.
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 7: I did some stunts for that Friday thirteenth thing I
Speaker 7: I get like like pulls me into the water. I
Speaker 7: mean I literally had to be in that lake at night.
Speaker 7: Where did you shoot it in Wisconsin?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 5: That was very cold.
Speaker 7: And a lot of there was there was a lot
Speaker 7: of fighting in that. There was like, yeah, I don't
Speaker 7: remember like specific stunts that I did, but.
Speaker 5: Yeah, what else did I do? Stunts in I mean
Speaker 5: really like every.
Speaker 7: Horror I've done, and I've done, and I've done like
Speaker 7: quite a bit of horror since then. There's definitely stunts
Speaker 7: with that. There's always stuns with horror. But I love
Speaker 7: a horror stump. It's so fun. And I love like
Speaker 7: a blood gag like I had to cough up my
Speaker 7: lungs for one movie.
Speaker 5: I love doing that.
Speaker 3: Oh my god.
Speaker 5: Yeah, so fun.
Speaker 3: You wrote in direct Saco Bhones, I did, Yes, I am.
Speaker 5: I'm very excited about this. It's a short.
Speaker 7: It's my first short that I've directed and written, and
Speaker 7: I'm also in it and I'm just finishing it up now,
Speaker 7: so we'll be submitting it.
Speaker 5: To festivals and tell me more.
Speaker 7: It's about this girl who gets obsessed with a crow,
Speaker 7: and I have liked this could be about.
Speaker 5: Every time I tell people about it, they're like, yep,
Speaker 5: my aunt.
Speaker 1: My friends have been leaving presents for the crows to
Speaker 1: try to get them to become friends with that and
Speaker 1: it's working.
Speaker 3: So is that as this the Saca Bones character, she's.
Speaker 7: Kind of Yeah, she's like a weird girl who gets
Speaker 7: obsessed with a crow, and she lives with her mom,
Speaker 7: and her mom just does not understand and then there's
Speaker 7: like some conflicts that sparks out of that damning. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 7: I'm I'm getting more into writing and directing, which has
Speaker 7: been awesome.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that is awesome. That's great.
Speaker 2: If you were to come back to SVU as a
Speaker 2: full on adult, what would you like to?
Speaker 5: I love to.
Speaker 7: I would love I You know what I I'm so
Speaker 7: mad that I didn't get to do, actually is be
Speaker 7: in court.
Speaker 3: You weren't on the stand.
Speaker 7: That's right, that that actually I actually do remember reading
Speaker 7: the episode and being like, damn, yeah, and I think
Speaker 7: I would want to be a lawyer one hundred, like.
Speaker 1: A DA or a defensive like like are you are
Speaker 1: you a cutthroat?
Speaker 5: I feel like it'd be fun to be a prosecutor.
Speaker 5: I feel like it'd be fun to do that.
Speaker 7: Yeah, prose, but you can can you unless you play
Speaker 7: the same.
Speaker 1: Unless they like they'll get like sometimes somebody is like
Speaker 1: a prosecutor in New Jersey or like you know, a
Speaker 1: queen's prosecutor or something like that.
Speaker 3: You can't worry. Coraesi is on family vacation. Yeah totally, man.
Speaker 5: So how how long have you guys been watching? Like
Speaker 5: when did you first start.
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't want to say, well, you you
Speaker 2: watched the premiere because on your birthday, premiered on my birthday.
Speaker 2: I've been watching it since it came out, but I
Speaker 2: wouldn't say like it came out when I was in college,
Speaker 2: like my college years, like I wasn't like home watching
Speaker 2: appointment television. So I caught like through having USA Network
Speaker 2: through the two thousands, is like how I when I
Speaker 2: was living in New York, is like how I became
Speaker 2: more of like a dialed in fan and I was
Speaker 2: watching it like every week plus marathons, but also like
Speaker 2: being a comedian on the road for like the past,
Speaker 2: I would say, like full time over a decade, it's
Speaker 2: like the best hotel watch.
Speaker 3: It's just always there for you.
Speaker 2: And that that was and then when when Kara had
Speaker 2: this idea, But yeah, I guess. And now we've been
Speaker 2: doing this podcast for close to three hundred episodes, what
Speaker 2: it's like been six years.
Speaker 5: That's amazing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it doesn't. It's amazing, and we're always inspired.
Speaker 2: I mean, we get to talk to such cool people.
Speaker 2: It's really it started out as like we're going to
Speaker 2: research crime and that interview people, and then the interviews
Speaker 2: have become like, well, you know, a joyful.
Speaker 5: Part of this for us, oh, because.
Speaker 2: We're inspired and then everyone loves Marishka unprompted, and that's
Speaker 2: been a cool journey. One day we'll have to like
Speaker 2: splice all of this together and send it to her
Speaker 2: as a gift, because the way people gush about her
Speaker 2: without even us asking a question is really cool.
Speaker 5: I mean I agree, like I felt the same way.
Speaker 5: I was blown away, Yeah.
Speaker 7: Because like I mean, when you do, I mean, I
Speaker 7: guess it was kind of the first like procedural I did,
Speaker 7: but then I went on to do more of them,
Speaker 7: and then you do realize like, oh, it's a really
Speaker 7: hard job to do the same character for so long,
Speaker 7: and it's natural to get a little like you know,
Speaker 7: distracted or just you know, it's like it's hard to
Speaker 7: be in the moment.
Speaker 3: All the time.
Speaker 5: I don't know, how has it.
Speaker 1: I think also because she just like knows that her
Speaker 1: character and the show is also like helping people in
Speaker 1: a way. It's like what the directors said to you,
Speaker 1: It's like, yeah, she's actually like started all this advocacy
Speaker 1: that's changed legislation, Like she really you know, and like
Speaker 1: kids are getting kidnapped and going, well, I actually knew
Speaker 1: to do this because I watch SPU with my mom, Like,
Speaker 1: you know, so I think that she's probably and I think.
Speaker 2: When we've talked to other cast members, like they know
Speaker 2: that the guest stars on the show are doing the
Speaker 2: heavy emotional lifting, and they're also they know that it's
Speaker 2: like a big deal for actors to book like these parts.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's victims, it's flip out, it's really emotional,
Speaker 2: and I think they want people to have good experiences
Speaker 2: and do a good job.
Speaker 5: Yeah, I definitely, I totally agree with that.
Speaker 7: I actually, now that you're saying this, I feel like
Speaker 7: I learned so much from her because then when I've
Speaker 7: been serior with regular on my show I on bad Lands,
Speaker 7: I was like, I need to treat these guest stars
Speaker 7: like I've been treated so many times.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because it is.
Speaker 7: It's like it's not your set and you do usually
Speaker 7: have like.
Speaker 5: Something more emotional.
Speaker 7: Or and you're not in your environment and you're meeting
Speaker 7: all the people and the crew, and it's like it
Speaker 7: goes a long way. If someone is like I'm here
Speaker 7: for you, I see you, like I got you. If
Speaker 7: you need anything, you know, yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, I can't wait to watch this bad
Speaker 3: lunch show.
Speaker 5: I hope you like it.
Speaker 3: I do.
Speaker 5: It's a fun show.
Speaker 2: I mean, well because, yeah, Kara's been surprised at my
Speaker 2: descent into Mortal Kombat.
Speaker 3: But I need this.
Speaker 5: I actually combat like what in what form? Where you
Speaker 5: consume it?
Speaker 2: So the new movie came out, and I was like
Speaker 2: doing a gig in Vegas and I was just like
Speaker 2: alone in a strip mall, and I was like, I'll
Speaker 2: go see it?
Speaker 3: Why not? And then I was like this was fucking fun.
Speaker 2: And so then I came home and watched the other
Speaker 2: Mortal Kombat movies, started listening to the soundtrack, and now
Speaker 2: I didn't know what my.
Speaker 3: Next step was, but now I found it.
Speaker 7: Okay, So actually something that is really good for you
Speaker 7: to know. The movie that came up before this one
Speaker 7: came out a few years ago. The lead of it,
Speaker 7: Lewis tan Is in bad Lands.
Speaker 3: Okay, all right, fantastic, Okay.
Speaker 7: He's in the I think he's only in the Maybe
Speaker 7: he's in the third and fourth.
Speaker 5: Maybe he's only in the fourth season.
Speaker 3: I see him now, I see him, Okay, I see
Speaker 3: him now.
Speaker 7: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I had to scroll a little bit okay, fuck yeah,
Speaker 3: fuck yeah.
Speaker 2: And then now I have a fantasy of wanting to
Speaker 2: do that, like I want to do Mortal Kombat.
Speaker 3: You know what I mean.
Speaker 5: It seems so I want that for you.
Speaker 7: You should honestly take like you should like go do
Speaker 7: some martial arts.
Speaker 2: I would rather do boxing, like I have the gloves. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I feel like I but I'm about to start.
Speaker 1: That again because I do really having a good time.
Speaker 1: I'm just addicted to Soul Cycle in a way I can't.
Speaker 5: I love Soul Cycle too. Soul Cycle's great.
Speaker 1: Do you have stuff coming up ally that you want
Speaker 1: us to like promote or anything or not.
Speaker 7: At the moment, I think I just like the stuff
Speaker 7: that I'm directing and writing.
Speaker 5: Yeah, my shorts. Yea sacaphone when it comes out, Yeah, sacophone.
Speaker 3: And then you got to put it into like all
Speaker 3: the fests. Such a good name. Thank you, it's a
Speaker 3: good name.
Speaker 5: Second, thanks guys.
Speaker 2: She was really cool, and you know, she might be
Speaker 2: in my new favorite show, Into the bad Lands.
Speaker 3: We never know. We never know.
Speaker 1: You're gonna like learn fight choreography from her. But I
Speaker 1: want to be able to see her horror movie.
Speaker 2: I hope it's like a fast or something that I
Speaker 2: find actually Nico Carney. I mean again, we're in the
Speaker 2: time machine, but he's in a movie that I just
Speaker 2: bought a ticket to. I've been taking some random weekend
Speaker 2: nights off and the events reveal themselves to me.
Speaker 1: Okay, So like lasten the door and a window open. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like last week, I took the night off, not knowing
Speaker 1: what's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: I got invited to a fun dinner like by a chef,
Speaker 2: so then I got you know, special, and then karaoke
Speaker 2: all night. And then this Friday, I took off and
Speaker 2: some Nico posted that his movie's premiering at IFC, so
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go see it.
Speaker 3: Amazing. Yeah, it's called Oh my God, I have C needs.
Speaker 2: You also cannot buy uh movie ticket for a IFC
Speaker 2: center without like registering like I, and the password has
Speaker 2: to be twelve characters, like I f C, what are
Speaker 2: we running here? Like I can't just buy a ticket
Speaker 2: and now I can't.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: So it's called She's the He and Misha Ashvich is
Speaker 2: in it, and they were in Survival of the Thickest
Speaker 2: so I had met them, so I'm kind of excited.
Speaker 3: Whatever. So I'm gonna go to a movie and there's
Speaker 3: a Q and A and every single person in this
Speaker 3: cast looks so young and hot. Yeah, I'm going to
Speaker 3: a young car is in it? Oh my god. Cool.
Speaker 2: So yeah, I'm gonna see that in the time machine.
Speaker 2: And maybe when we're back, i'll let you know. I'm excited.
Speaker 2: She's the heat. Now that I've been in the independent
Speaker 2: movie world, I'm gonna go see you've got a support
Speaker 2: Yeah what a nightmare? Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah. Making movies is insane.
Speaker 2: It's just so many Like that's why I stand ups
Speaker 2: the best, Like you really don't need anything, I guess
Speaker 2: an audience, but like you don't need nothing with a movie.
Speaker 3: It's just like I can't. It's so many fucking people.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of miss it's a lot of moving parts.
Speaker 3: It really is. Yeah, but I'm gonna see She's the heat. Amazing.
Speaker 3: That's fun.
Speaker 2: The soups, this noup, and I want your favorite soaps
Speaker 2: as well.
Speaker 1: My favorite soap okay, my favorite soup okay. So I
Speaker 1: will say, first thing that comes to mind is like
Speaker 1: a tomato, but it had it's like specific, like it
Speaker 1: has to be like a specific, sort of like creamy
Speaker 1: tomato and that's why I loved the one at Cozy.
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's a place I love in the city. But
Speaker 2: their tomato soup is chunky, and I'm like, I don't
Speaker 2: actually need a vegetable in here.
Speaker 1: A chunky tomato soup that kind of tastes like I'm
Speaker 1: eating hot marinera.
Speaker 3: That's not for me.
Speaker 1: Like I like a creamy I guess maybe a bisk is.
Speaker 1: Like I don't really know what makes a bisk a bisk.
Speaker 1: But speaking of bisks, I love a fucking lobster bisk.
Speaker 1: I love a corn bisk. I mean, I love a
Speaker 1: corn chowder. I love a broccoli cheddar. So you mostly
Speaker 1: like a cream yeah, creamy anything with cream so corn. Also,
Speaker 1: I also like a French onions. I mean French onion
Speaker 1: is one of those soups where I'm like, don't tell
Speaker 1: me that you made it with a beef broth, you
Speaker 1: know what I mean? Like, if if you can, if
Speaker 1: I can find one with like a vegetable broth, amazing,
Speaker 1: But I love it so much I can kind of
Speaker 1: look past.
Speaker 3: But I do like a brothy soup.
Speaker 1: It's just so few of them are made with like
Speaker 1: a vegetable broth, you know what I mean, Like I
Speaker 1: like a.
Speaker 2: Vegetable soup the issue, yeah, because I like overall my
Speaker 2: mom makes the best chicken noodle, like chicken like yeah,
Speaker 2: like she gets those bones and she's making these soups
Speaker 2: and like I love a chicken noodle a matza boat
Speaker 2: like that for sure is culturally inside of me. But like, no,
Speaker 2: I want a fucking creamy clam chowder or a baby
Speaker 2: like I can't.
Speaker 1: Believe I forgot New England clam chowder. I was waiting
Speaker 1: for you to finish about your mom, and I was like,
Speaker 1: I actually am.
Speaker 3: I love that clam child.
Speaker 2: The texture of a clam I like in this chowder,
Speaker 2: but I didn't know about okay, Like I worked at
Speaker 2: Chicago Joe's in Chicago obviously so yes for a long
Speaker 2: time and that's where I learned a lot about soups
Speaker 2: and like Fridays I think was clam chowder and it
Speaker 2: changed my life.
Speaker 3: Did they have clemchowder in a bread bowl at Chicago Joe's.
Speaker 2: No, it was like a real restaurant, but we did
Speaker 2: have always on our specials.
Speaker 3: That feels so shady. Well, I used to go to
Speaker 3: this place called Joe's American Bar and Grill, and there
Speaker 3: was still one. Oh, I've been there.
Speaker 1: I went with you, Yeah, on Newberry Street, and there
Speaker 1: was one in the town, the mall near my college,
Speaker 1: and we would like splurge and go have clam chowder
Speaker 1: in a bread bowl C C and a BB we
Speaker 1: would call it.
Speaker 3: And I but that was a real.
Speaker 2: Restaurant, so it was, and I went and I loved it.
Speaker 2: To me, it's just so Panera. I've never seen it
Speaker 2: outside of Panera except you're right, that makes sense, that
Speaker 2: makes sense. But I think bread bulls should be everywhere
Speaker 2: at all times, and if it was an option, I
Speaker 2: would be getting them. But no, we just had little,
Speaker 2: tiny bowls and like I just loved I loved it
Speaker 2: so fucking much.
Speaker 3: But yeah, and a bread ball.
Speaker 1: It feels like the most sustainable thing you can do.
Speaker 1: Just eat your whole bowl, Like just get rid of
Speaker 1: the whole thing, you know, Like it feels like you're
Speaker 1: lowering your carbon footprint every time.
Speaker 3: You eat clym ches.
Speaker 2: Well, I think I've mentioned this at least twenty times
Speaker 2: on this podcast. But my niece when she was younger,
Speaker 2: but not that young, because.
Speaker 3: It's not that old of a thing.
Speaker 2: But she would put the Panera mac and cheese in
Speaker 2: the bread bowl. Oh, really taking it, taking it to
Speaker 2: the max, taking it to the extra, taking it.
Speaker 3: To the extreme.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I love a creamy soup so much, tomato soup.
Speaker 2: I need a girl cheese like I don't think I
Speaker 2: would ever. And then I love the little mandols. I
Speaker 2: love these soup croutons. I would drink them as a child.
Speaker 3: Ooh, I actually have a tomato soup and girl cheese
Speaker 3: recipe to make tonight for dinner.
Speaker 1: That's what I'm gonna have. You just reminded me that
Speaker 1: was in my fridge. It feels weird now to get
Speaker 1: into like a post mortem. No, but I also hate
Speaker 1: campus rape. But I we're talking about soup.
Speaker 2: But when people like and we just made this long
Speaker 2: soup discussion, but I hate when people are like, soups
Speaker 2: are my favorite food and all any actually it's Julia's
Speaker 2: fair food. Like people that are always making soups for
Speaker 2: the week and eating little soups with lentils in it.
Speaker 2: I don't trust them, and I don't like it kidney beans,
Speaker 2: you know what I mean?
Speaker 3: Like, I don't like that pre batching soup Nah, you're
Speaker 3: not down for them.
Speaker 2: No, I don't like. I don't like I don't like
Speaker 2: beans in a soup. I think that's my It took
Speaker 2: me a second.
Speaker 3: To get there. I don't like bees.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I don't like that. Whereas I
Speaker 1: like that, I'm down.
Speaker 2: But yeah, if you ever order like a tortilla soup
Speaker 2: and then it's just like hunks of black beans and
Speaker 2: it's disgusting.
Speaker 1: I don't think I've ever had tortilla soup though, to
Speaker 1: be honest, maybe.
Speaker 3: I should try.
Speaker 2: Oh you have you been? Have you had the soup
Speaker 2: at Olive Garden with those little they have little puffy
Speaker 2: things in it, Like I've never been to an Olive Garden.
Speaker 3: Really? No, Oh, I think you would love it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it would be your favorite restaurant.
Speaker 3: I mean I think like when I was growing up, there.
Speaker 1: Was a place called tu Cheese that was kind of
Speaker 1: like Connecticut and Massachusetts that's very similar to Olive Garden,
Speaker 1: and I loved Bertue Cheese, So I probably would love
Speaker 1: Olive Garden.
Speaker 2: It's the zupa toscano and it just has little pillows,
Speaker 2: but it's not like chunks of bread. Honestly, I can't
Speaker 2: believe how hard. No, it's not chunks of bread, it's
Speaker 2: little Ravioli's. I can't believe this is so hard for me.
Speaker 2: Oh like, where is the fuck like for me? I
Speaker 2: think Google punishes me because I do minus ai wow,
Speaker 2: because I'm trying to look at a restaurant menu.
Speaker 3: I have to put in a zip code for what?
Speaker 3: For what? Oh wow?
Speaker 1: If you actually, if you look this up, A lot
Speaker 1: of places have ways to make it. The recipe is
Speaker 1: like all over different kick like websites of how to
Speaker 1: make zupa Tuscana.
Speaker 2: That's not what I thought. Maybe it's the yeah, Italian dumplings.
Speaker 2: Dumplings is the word. I was like, okay, yeah, so
Speaker 2: it's the chicken and theoki. So you can't have it
Speaker 2: a creamy soup with roasted chicken, Italian dumplings and spinach.
Speaker 3: I love it, but like, I.
Speaker 1: Don't know, maybe your your palate has grown because it's
Speaker 1: so much nostalgia.
Speaker 2: I don't think I would even like Olivar. But it's
Speaker 2: like I just loved Trimp Scamp. I liked, I loved it,
Speaker 2: I loved I loved being there. And then when I
Speaker 2: opened for Nikki on the Road, like a long long
Speaker 2: time ago, we would go for lunch and she would
Speaker 2: just we would get the like soup, salad, breadstick lunch.
Speaker 1: Yeah, no, I just and then like when I lived
Speaker 1: in New York for eleven years, like it was in
Speaker 1: Times Square, you know, like I wasn't really like going
Speaker 1: to Times Square to eat, and then now I live here,
Speaker 1: I don't even know where you know where one is,
Speaker 1: so it's just been like not around me.
Speaker 2: I don't have anything against it. It feels weird to
Speaker 2: try to encourage you to go. It's just like funny
Speaker 2: because I do think like you would love it.
Speaker 1: Well, I'm about to drive cross country and maybe I'll
Speaker 1: take my kids to Olive Garden because Rosie does fucking
Speaker 1: love pasta, so I'm sure. And she loves breadsticks like
Speaker 1: any place.
Speaker 3: That has big breadsticks. She goes bread sticks like she'll
Speaker 3: eat like.
Speaker 2: They come in a bag and then they kind of
Speaker 2: souv them in the bag and boiling water.
Speaker 3: Like it's not real food.
Speaker 2: But like that's what I wrote a request for my
Speaker 2: birthday for years until I realized I can get more
Speaker 2: expensive things, but i'llive go like the raspberry swirl cheese. Hey,
Speaker 2: like I requested Alive Garden every year for my birthday
Speaker 2: for at least like six years. Damn, I loved it.
Speaker 2: And the red lobster was in the same parking lot,
Speaker 2: like and I met that wasn't he didn't even cross
Speaker 2: my mind to go, yeah, I loved.
Speaker 3: I loved Bertucci.
Speaker 1: I wonder if I don't know if Bertuccies is still around,
Speaker 1: but okay, I guess. Basically though, to wrap up this episode,
Speaker 1: it's it's don't go to We had a big we
Speaker 1: kind of had a big talk about it at the
Speaker 1: end of the recap, like it is just frustrating because
Speaker 1: people don't false report a lot, and then if there
Speaker 1: is any story that is not like perfect, it's like
Speaker 1: see you know, and I think that.
Speaker 2: Well, it's just like if that's fine, do the sea,
Speaker 2: but then admit that you're all rapists, Like it's not fair,
Speaker 2: Like we like a false accusation represents everyone, but a
Speaker 2: rapist doesn't represent everyone. Yeah, so it's like if you
Speaker 2: think we're all lying bitches, then at least admit you're
Speaker 2: all rapists. Like I'm fine to play that game if
Speaker 2: you want, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: And then why are we even why is anybody even
Speaker 1: messing with any on the other side, if everybody's rapist
Speaker 1: and everybody's lying.
Speaker 3: Like just leave each other alone. Yeah, they just can't.
Speaker 2: It's like it's really Oh wait, did I tell you
Speaker 2: about the strip club thing? So I was hanging out
Speaker 2: with someone from Canada, and I've been thinking about this
Speaker 2: a long time because they're loonies into like they're one.
Speaker 3: And two dollars or coins.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, So I've just been thinking, how does
Speaker 2: strip clubs work with the coins? So I finally was like, wait, dude,
Speaker 2: you're in Canada. How do people go to strip clubs
Speaker 2: with the coins? So he says, you slide them, and
Speaker 2: it's kind of a thing, and so like people just
Speaker 2: slide the coins, but I go even picking them up
Speaker 2: as hard, like how do you pick up the coin?
Speaker 3: Like do you have like a crumber? Like it's just
Speaker 3: like just kind of a thing.
Speaker 2: And then he was saying that like sometimes the girls
Speaker 2: will grab posters of themselves and then make it into
Speaker 2: a funnel and then put it in their pussy and
Speaker 2: then everyone's throw like throws coins. But then he says
Speaker 2: some people will heat the coin up with a lighter
Speaker 2: to try to burn the girls.
Speaker 3: Okay, well that person should be on a list.
Speaker 2: No they get I go, do they get kicked out?
Speaker 2: He goes, no, of course, and I go, but who
Speaker 2: would even do that? He goes, yeah, men just can't
Speaker 2: have nice things. And it's just like what the fuck?
Speaker 2: But this is what I'm talking about. It's just like
Speaker 2: you're at a strip club. You get to throw it
Speaker 2: like in a funnel, in a pussy, and you then
Speaker 2: have to burn her.
Speaker 3: Like I don't understand.
Speaker 2: It's like it's never a no, crazy, it's never so
Speaker 2: ugh yeah, because this happens in like porn too, where
Speaker 2: like you'll read like the girls like these are my limits,
Speaker 2: and then everyone knows the limits, and then someone will
Speaker 2: try to break the limits and it's like, but there's
Speaker 2: all these things you could do, like why are you
Speaker 2: trying to do the thing that's a no? Like it
Speaker 2: just doesn't make sense to me. But I was like,
Speaker 2: it's horrified by the bird because that hurt, Like what
Speaker 2: the fuck?
Speaker 3: It's crazy to me. There shouldn't be coins like Canada
Speaker 3: so can.
Speaker 1: I mean, Like it's like we just read Yesteryear where
Speaker 1: they're like when she comes to the realization, she's like
Speaker 1: this country hates women and it's like, but Canada. I
Speaker 1: didn't think Canadians, but you know, it's all It's everywhere.
Speaker 1: Jaselle Pellicot was in France. I mean, come on, it's everywhere.
Speaker 2: Also, listen to rape Advisor, like try to tell the truth, yeah,
Speaker 2: and it's the matter, details don't matter, and it's like
Speaker 2: and you're the rape out of it, like you should
Speaker 2: be fired.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think also this like a big, a big
Speaker 1: takeaway for me from this episode, from my research too,
Speaker 1: is like we really need good journalism is important, and
Speaker 1: like journalism that is like fully vetted and like everyone's
Speaker 1: asking the right questions and doing the right and when
Speaker 1: there's like takeovers at CBS and there's agendas and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, I just feel like we're gonna get even
Speaker 1: more and more like weird reporting and misreporting and slanted reporting.
Speaker 3: So it sucks.
Speaker 2: But I Fuckberry Wise, like fuck that bit witch, Fuck
Speaker 2: that bitch, and fuck anyone that like allowed it to
Speaker 2: get this far with her, you know, like I mean
Speaker 2: with all of them, but it's like, at least with
Speaker 2: the rest of them, they like they know that they're bad.
Speaker 2: But like I felt with her, it was like she's cool,
Speaker 2: she's small, you know, like there was just this defense
Speaker 2: in like something about her.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: I mean the fact of the matter is, like, thinking
Speaker 2: about this bitch that did such a bad job at
Speaker 2: her article, it's like we do we we do more
Speaker 2: due diligence than her.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I at least make sure a few different sources
Speaker 1: say the same thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah, or if it's a bad source, I go listen.
Speaker 3: This is the New York Persons from a blog. This
Speaker 3: is from something weird.
Speaker 2: I don't know, Like I don't like us as a
Speaker 2: podcast should not have more integrity and research than like
Speaker 2: full journalists.
Speaker 3: Like we're not.
Speaker 1: Gonna be just like it's just like the way the
Speaker 1: cops will go into something going, I know this is
Speaker 1: the truth, and I'm gonna make my whole investigation slant
Speaker 1: towards this truth.
Speaker 3: That's kind of what she did with this article.
Speaker 1: Even though absolutely there are probably rapes happening on that campus,
Speaker 1: and there's absolutely victims and something probably did maybe happen
Speaker 1: to this girl, But like, you can't build an entire
Speaker 1: story based on a witness that you like did not
Speaker 1: vet and like you did not check out her story,
Speaker 1: and there were some easy easy mistakes that you could
Speaker 1: have grabbed, you know.
Speaker 3: But whatever.
Speaker 2: But like I remember taking journalism in high school, and
Speaker 2: I would say, all those lessons are no longer relevant. Really, Yeah,
Speaker 2: we talked about it like it used to be like
Speaker 2: the inverted pyramid, right, Like you would do the most important.
Speaker 2: You would get all the details out as soon as
Speaker 2: possible because you're reading the news and you want to
Speaker 2: give people the info. And then it'd go tinier and
Speaker 2: tinier details all because they have like click economy and stuff.
Speaker 3: It's like bah bah bah and you're like what and
Speaker 3: then you're like trying to find.
Speaker 2: A fact, and it's like where is the true where
Speaker 2: is the news? Why are you not giving me the
Speaker 2: details of the fire?
Speaker 3: Like why? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Like there you're It's like the article will start out
Speaker 1: it was a cold day in September.
Speaker 3: You're like no, no, no, no, no, this is a
Speaker 3: news article, not.
Speaker 1: Like a Vanity Fair profile, Like I just tell me
Speaker 1: where the fire happened.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I guess when I say everything is irrelevant, it's
Speaker 2: just this one thing.
Speaker 3: I remember.
Speaker 1: I was like, what's wrong? Like the lead like writing
Speaker 1: a good headline, subheads?
Speaker 3: What do you mean? Well, just neverted pyramid.
Speaker 1: I took journalism all through high school because if you
Speaker 1: wanted to work on the student newspaper, you had to
Speaker 1: take news publication every every quarter a semester. Yeah, so
Speaker 1: I was like always taking it. But you know, and
Speaker 1: I worked on my college newspaper too. God, I really
Speaker 1: thought I was going to be a journalist at some point.
Speaker 1: Maybe I am. I'm a podcaster now.
Speaker 2: I mean investigative journalism is fucking cool, Like it's an admira,
Speaker 2: Like I love reading these long ass pieces that take
Speaker 2: so much time. I like watching movies about newspaper stuff.
Speaker 2: I still haven't seen Spotlight. I gotta do that.
Speaker 3: But Spotlight's so good. But like I I admire it.
Speaker 2: I don't know, it's like cool, and it's patients, which
Speaker 2: is something I don't really have, and so that's like
Speaker 2: and like secrets, I don't know.
Speaker 3: Yeah, totally, I would love it.
Speaker 1: Okay, so let's get into our what would Sister Peg do?
Speaker 1: This is our weekly segment where we direct you to
Speaker 1: an organization, an article, a documentary, something to give you
Speaker 1: more information about what we talked about in today's episode.
Speaker 1: And we recommended this organization after we did porn Star's Requiem,
Speaker 1: but that was like episode eleven of the podcast, so
Speaker 1: we're bringing it back. It's called end Rape on Campus,
Speaker 1: as the name clearly indicates. They're working to end campus
Speaker 1: sexual violence through direct support for survivors and their communities,
Speaker 1: prevention through education, and policy reform at the campus, local, state,
Speaker 1: and federal levels. Trona Burke is on their board of directors,
Speaker 1: who is one of the founders of the Me Too movement.
Speaker 3: So I think this is a great organization.
Speaker 1: So for more information about that or to donate, you
Speaker 1: can head over to end Rape on Campus dot org.
Speaker 1: And we to that in our show notes as usual,
Speaker 1: and we post it in a story the day this
Speaker 1: episode comes out, and all of our stories are on
Speaker 1: our Instagram, which is that's messed Up pod, and we
Speaker 1: save all of our dot what would Sister PEG's peg?
Speaker 1: We save all of our what would Sister peg dos
Speaker 1: in our WWSPD highlights.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for that, and next week we'll
Speaker 2: be doing Murdered at a Bad Address, Season twenty one,
Speaker 2: episode six. Thank you so much, Tommy's and we'll see
Speaker 2: you next week.
Speaker 3: Bye.
Speaker 2: That's messed Up as an exactly right production.
Speaker 1: If you have compliments you'd like to give us or
Speaker 1: episodes you'd like us to cover, Shoot us an email
Speaker 1: it That's Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
Speaker 1: wherever you get your podcasts.
Speaker 2: Follow the podcast on Instagram at That's Messed Up Pod,
Speaker 2: and follow us personally at Kara Klank and glitter Cheese.
Speaker 1: As always, please see our show notes for sources and
Speaker 1: more information.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much to our senior producer Casey O'Brien
Speaker 2: and our associate producer Christina Chamberlain, and to.
Speaker 1: Our mixer John Bradley and our guest booker Patrick Cottner,
Speaker 1: and to Henry Kaperski for our theme song, and Carly
Speaker 1: Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank you to our executive
Speaker 1: producers Georgia Hardstart, Karen Kilgarriff, Daniel Kramer, and everybody at
Speaker 1: Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Dun Dun