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Speaker 2: It's very difficult to keep the line between the past

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Speaker 2: and the press.

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Speaker 3: You believe that someone out of the past can enter

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Speaker 3: and take possession of a living We may be through

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Speaker 3: with the past, but the past is not through with us.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to the Next Picture Show. A movie that

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Speaker 1: we've podcast devoted to, a classic film and the way

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Speaker 1: it shift our thoughts on our recent release. I'm Keith

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Speaker 1: Sepps here with.

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Speaker 4: Scott Tobias, Tasha Robinson, and Genevieve Kaski.

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Speaker 1: In our last episode, we discussed Fargo, joeln Eathan Cohen's

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Speaker 1: classic crime film set in the snowiest reaches of the

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Speaker 1: Upper Midwest. This week, we're turning our attention to Normal,

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Speaker 1: a film that's in some ways Fargo's polar opposite as

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Speaker 1: I'm sure We'll get into Shortly directed by Ben Wheatley,

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Speaker 1: a British genre film specialist who've attracted attention starting in

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Speaker 1: the late aughts with films like Kill List and A

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Speaker 1: Field in England, Fargo was taken from the story conceived

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Speaker 1: by star Bob Odenkirk and screenwriter Derek Coolstad, who's best

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Speaker 1: known as a creator of John Wick. It's Coldstad's third

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Speaker 1: collaboration with Odenkirk, after Nobody and its sequel, Nobody Too.

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Speaker 1: But while Odenkirk has no shortness of action scenes, Normals

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Speaker 1: a twistier, harder to pin down sort of movie that's

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Speaker 1: in part because it keeps shifting gears. Odenkirk plays a

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Speaker 1: veteran police officer named Ulysses who's taken a temporary job

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Speaker 1: in Normal, Minnesota at the death of that town's sheriff.

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Speaker 1: As Ulysses explains to his strange wife via voicemail messages,

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Speaker 1: Normal is a nice place, and one that seems to

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Speaker 1: have avoided some of the emptying out that time and

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Speaker 1: a faltering economy has visited upon other small towns. It's

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Speaker 1: downtown is filled with quaint shops, not boarded up storefronts,

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Speaker 1: and the city's coffers seemed to be full their Uleses

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Speaker 1: has planned to do as little as possible before going

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Speaker 1: on his way. He can't help wondering why and about

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Speaker 1: what happened to his predecessor, a process catalyzed by the

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Speaker 1: arrival of some bank robbers, at which point the film

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Speaker 1: segues into a bullet ridden action film, before in its

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Speaker 1: final act, transitioning yet again, do those shifts work? We'll

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Speaker 1: talk it over after the break, Like the.

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Speaker 5: Way you, law man, Life in normal is quiet, peaceful,

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Speaker 5: predictable until it isn't.

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Speaker 2: I meant a loss, Gesus. That's not where I was aiming.

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Speaker 5: Welcome to normal.

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Speaker 1: I guess you could to start where I left off.

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Speaker 1: So this is a film basically in three parts. Each

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Speaker 1: was kind of a slightly different genre within the same film.

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Speaker 1: Did that work for you?

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Speaker 4: I mean for me? The problem isn't you know tonal whiplash?

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Speaker 4: So much as when a single movie gives you three movies,

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Speaker 4: you're gonna like one better than the other. And I

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Speaker 4: liked the first movie here by far better than the

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Speaker 4: other two.

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Speaker 5: Wait, which is the first movie? All the boring stuff

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Speaker 5: before the bank?

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Speaker 4: So basically, there are these people in a car on

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Speaker 4: their way to a fireworks factory.

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Speaker 6: Scott.

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Speaker 4: Does anybody know if Scott's been visited recently by somebody

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Speaker 4: with like a big pulsighting alien pod, because I truly

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Speaker 4: cannot believe that this is our Scott Tobias complaining of

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Speaker 4: about like the folksy slow paced introduction where we like

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Speaker 4: go deep into the mind of a character in his life,

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Speaker 4: and like it prefers the part where stuff blows up

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Speaker 4: for very little reason.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's me on this one, because I found that

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Speaker 3: beginning of the film to be really kind of sluggish

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Speaker 3: and perfunctory. Obviously, we get, you know, an opening way

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Speaker 3: across the other side of the globe, and we're intrigued.

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Speaker 5: By all that, like what's what's this all about? Yakuza?

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Speaker 3: But then once we kind of get back to Ulysses

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Speaker 3: and him kind of entering this town, I mean, there

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Speaker 3: is some intrigue as to what is actually going on here,

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Speaker 3: where this money is coming from, why this this town

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Speaker 3: is you know, it seems relatively healthy financially, where towns

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Speaker 3: of its kind are you know, at this moment in time,

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Speaker 3: are struggling. Those are all mysteries that I that have

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Speaker 3: a certain amount of intrigue. But I did feel bored

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Speaker 3: by this film until the bank robbery happened, and then

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Speaker 3: it was like, Okay, now we can actually kind of

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Speaker 3: get into what this film really is, which I think is,

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Speaker 3: you know, a sort of bloody genre film, kind of

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Speaker 3: a you know, cult movie, want to be that sort

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Speaker 3: of has kind of the feeling of kind of a

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Speaker 3: Hong Kong action movie. Also sort of evokes a film

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Speaker 3: that we could have covered on an earlier episode of

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Speaker 3: Assault on pre Stick thirteen or reminding me of that.

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Speaker 3: All that stuff is fine as far as it goes.

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Speaker 3: It's a little bit like what I used to call

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Speaker 3: some of the red meat movies that they would throw

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Speaker 3: at audiences during midnight madness at Tiff. Just something that

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Speaker 3: I think people would really respond to, even though there's

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Speaker 3: something fundamentally cheap and not terribly.

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Speaker 5: Well executed about it.

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Speaker 3: Just there's something sloppy about this film overall that sort

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Speaker 3: of annoyed me, but it certainly does the job.

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Speaker 5: I guess is maybe the best thing I could say

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Speaker 5: about it.

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Speaker 6: What did ever else think, Tasha? Do you have room

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Speaker 6: for any more hats over in your corner? Because I

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Speaker 6: would like to throw mine over there, because you.

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Speaker 4: Don't have to throw it. I'm sure your hat is

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Speaker 4: extremely nice, and I would be happy to set it

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Speaker 4: in a place of honor. I'm stacking my corner hats

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Speaker 4: pretty neatly in these days.

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Speaker 6: All right, well, well, let me describe my hat, because

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Speaker 6: I also kind of gravitated toward the first act of

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Speaker 6: this movie more and just sort of. I wish we

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Speaker 6: could have kind of sat in the mystery of this

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Speaker 6: of what was happening in this town for longer than

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Speaker 6: we did. Honestly, that opening scene with the yakuza, I

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Speaker 6: wish it wasn't there so we could kind of have

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Speaker 6: more wondering what was going on with this town. I

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Speaker 6: think it made it very clear with that opening what

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Speaker 6: the reveal was going to be. It was just a

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Speaker 6: matter of waiting to see how it was going to

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Speaker 6: be revealed. And once the bank robbery happens, it got

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Speaker 6: very boring to me. It is a complete inverse for

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Speaker 6: Scott because it was just like, all right, we're just

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Speaker 6: watching people shoot guns for the next forty five minutes,

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Speaker 6: I guess, and you know, in a post John Wick world,

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Speaker 6: I'm just not that interested in seeing like the quote

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Speaker 6: unquote creative ways you can kill someone with a gun,

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Speaker 6: especially because they've all been done before this at this point,

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Speaker 6: whereas in that first part, and I agree, it's not

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Speaker 6: like extremely well executed. I don't think this movie overall

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Speaker 6: is I could like just feel it leaking out of

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Speaker 6: my brain as I was watching it. But I remember

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Speaker 6: thinking during that first part of the movie, like, I'm

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Speaker 6: so mad we didn't pair this with Hot fuzz uh,

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Speaker 6: because that is a movie that I love that does

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Speaker 6: kind of have this sort of like what's going on

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Speaker 6: in this small town. Here is a police outsider coming

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Speaker 6: in and you know, working the case and interacting with

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Speaker 6: all these weirdos, and we get a few scenes of that,

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Speaker 6: like the knitting story lady and the hardware store guy,

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Speaker 6: and you know, we do a little circuit around the

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Speaker 6: town kind of you know, seeing all the ways in

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Speaker 6: which it's something's a little off. But then we dispense

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Speaker 6: with it and it's just a shoot them up, and

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Speaker 6: that is just not as interesting to me. I don't

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Speaker 6: want to overstate how interesting the first part of it

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Speaker 6: is either, but but it is more interesting to me

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Speaker 6: than everything that comes later.

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Speaker 3: I don't believe that any of you remember anything that

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Speaker 3: happened to this movie. This is this is an outright

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Speaker 3: I think this.

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Speaker 1: Movie is fine. It's very watchable, totally like two and

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Speaker 1: a half star movie. But I think I like the

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Speaker 1: Middle Park considerably less than the others. Like I thought

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Speaker 1: it just so glib, and like, I like, if you're

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Speaker 1: not going to outdo other action movies, you gotta have

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Speaker 1: something else going on, then just try like here's everyone shooting. Oh,

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Speaker 1: even Granny's got a gun. It's just it's just it's

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Speaker 1: wearying after a while. But then I thought it kind

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Speaker 1: of won me back with that kind of farcical final

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Speaker 1: act where everyone has to pretend that to put on

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Speaker 1: a good show for the yakuza, and friends become enemies

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Speaker 1: and enemies. It's not I guess no friends become enemies,

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Speaker 1: but definitely enemies become friends of convenience. Uh, that was

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Speaker 1: kind of clever, I mean to me, I mean overall though,

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Speaker 1: just sort of the the glibness of it is like

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Speaker 1: what bothers me with like a lot of other would

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Speaker 1: be cult just like, isn't this crazy what we're doing?

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Speaker 1: What almost rescues it or or or comes close enough

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Speaker 1: to rescuing it is I think Odin Kirk is really

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Speaker 1: good and it gets a really humane performance. He has

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Speaker 1: these really nice scenes with the character Alex played by

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Speaker 1: Jess McLeod, who's the former sheriff's non binary child who's

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Speaker 1: kind of been you know, an outcast both because they're

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Speaker 1: not participating in this conspiracy, uh and and because of

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Speaker 1: their their gender identity. And that's just really good. But

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Speaker 1: it almost kind of belongs to a different movie. But

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Speaker 1: the reason you know, we're going to this more when

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Speaker 1: we do the pairing. But like the reason I thought

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Speaker 1: of Fargo is like all I was like, can for

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Speaker 1: excuse to watch Fargo? But also like you know, this

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Speaker 1: is the opposite of BRAINERD and Fargo, right, It's it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a seemingly quaint little town where everyone's corrupted,

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Speaker 1: everyone's kind of it's a town full of of of

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Speaker 1: gears and curls. And when it seems to be a

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Speaker 1: townful of like you know, homie little nice people, which

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Speaker 1: is a funny enough joke, perhaps not funny enough to

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Speaker 1: sustain a feature film.

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Speaker 4: Well, it doesn't have to sustain a future film. It

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Speaker 4: has to sustain one act of a future film. And

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Speaker 4: it still feels overstretched. I'm not going to regift you

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Speaker 4: your own hat, Genevieve, because that would be crass, but

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Speaker 4: I will take a hat from this stack and put

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Speaker 4: it back in your corner, because what you described is

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Speaker 4: kind of exactly what I was feeling, just a sort

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Speaker 4: of sense that, you know, it just felt it felt

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Speaker 4: too samey the le and now everybody is shooting each

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Speaker 4: other sequence. The part of the setting up pins in

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Speaker 4: the early going of the film is establishing that the

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Speaker 4: police in normal have a truly ridiculous amount of like

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Speaker 4: military grade weapons and ordinance, and that the citizenry has

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Speaker 4: a lot of secret cabinets for stuff, and that the

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Speaker 4: bank vault itself is also packed with military grade weapons.

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Speaker 4: And the more of that was revealed, the more I

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Speaker 4: kind of felt like, all right, well, we're clearly setting

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Speaker 4: up a situation where it's not enough that everybody has

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Speaker 4: a gun. It's not enough that everybody has an automatic rifle.

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Speaker 4: They've got to have sea four and rocket launchers and

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Speaker 4: you know, you name what else of it in an

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Speaker 4: attempt to make it big. But then the action itself

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Speaker 4: just feels very small and very redundant to me. I'm right,

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Speaker 4: there with you and feeling like the middle act here

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Speaker 4: feels like an inferior John Wick And yeah, Scott, I mean,

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Speaker 4: I don't know. The pin setting sequence is just so mannered,

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Speaker 4: you know, it's it feels almost like Season four True

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Speaker 4: Detective to me in terms of establishing a bunch of

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Speaker 4: kind of very specific characters and a tone and a

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Speaker 4: look to the place and a way for Owenkirk's character

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Speaker 4: Ulysses to interact with people in his past and his life,

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Speaker 4: you know, complete with a weird sort of homie like

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Speaker 4: cares what's going on in his head voiceover, and then

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Speaker 4: just so much of the texture completely disappears when we

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Speaker 4: head into act two.

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Speaker 1: That's another snowy story season four of a True Detective.

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Speaker 4: Keith brought up the sheriff's non binary child Alex, who

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Speaker 4: I think is presented in a way that suggests they

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Speaker 4: might become a really cool character. And then I would

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Speaker 4: also shout out Rina Jolly and Brendan Fletcher as Laurie

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Speaker 4: and Keith are would be bank robbers who are kind

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Speaker 4: of presented as a little bit of a mystery in

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Speaker 4: terms of their backstory and like what's driven them to

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Speaker 4: this desperate place like, why did they come to normal?

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Speaker 4: How did all of this come together? And I just

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Speaker 4: kind of feel like Acts two and three almost completely

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Speaker 4: lose interest in all three of those characters. Alex gets

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Speaker 4: to remain around, but we stop exploring anything having to

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Speaker 4: do with them as a person. Laurie and Keith just

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Speaker 4: kind of faf off into the night at the end

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Speaker 4: of Act two with this kind of like big mystery

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Speaker 4: about what exactly they think they're going to do next

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Speaker 4: given where they've gotten, and the movie's just completely and

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Speaker 4: curious about that. I just I feel like it really

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Speaker 4: does feel like the three acts of this movie were

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Speaker 4: written by three different people who only got the slightest

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Speaker 4: bit of reportage about like what the other parts of

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Speaker 4: the movie were like, and sort of half heartedly picked

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Speaker 4: them up, but were kind of just interested in doing

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Speaker 4: their own things.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, Alex is a kind of squirreled away into a

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Speaker 6: holding cell to be deployed as the most obviously foreshadowed

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Speaker 6: dale sex machina during the scene that I maybe hated

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Speaker 6: the most in this entire movie with Lena Hetty, who

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Speaker 6: is a performer that I generally like, but this character

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Speaker 6: Moira the Bar, I think she calls herself the barkeeper,

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Speaker 6: which is like not say that I that I think

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Speaker 6: is said anywhere in Minnesota. I could be wrong, but yeah,

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Speaker 6: sort of the whole showdown that she and Ulysses have

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Speaker 6: involving his traumatic backstory, which I know we also probably

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Speaker 6: want to pick at a little bit, but it's so

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Speaker 6: clear that like, what is going to happen this as

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Speaker 6: Moira is sitting next to this holding cell that we

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Speaker 6: saw Ulysses put Alex in twenty minutes ago, but the

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Speaker 6: film just like kind of assumes that we'll have forgotten

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Speaker 6: I don't know, did Yeah.

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Speaker 4: No, I didn't think that. I honestly felt that that

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Speaker 4: scene is maybe a little overstretched because we are waiting

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Speaker 4: for the fire X factory, like we know what's going

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Speaker 4: to happen. We're just like when is the shoe going

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Speaker 4: to drop? Like when we know something's going to happen,

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Speaker 4: when is it going to happen? So, I, you know,

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Speaker 4: I was fine with that. I did definitely did not

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Speaker 4: think that the filmmakers thought we had forgotten about Alex

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Speaker 4: in that cell.

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Speaker 6: Well fair enough, I'm maybe projecting my overall annoyance with

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Speaker 6: the scene onto them. But because the Alex element was

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Speaker 6: not what annoyed me about it so much as the

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Speaker 6: weighted nature of this conversation in the midst of everything

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Speaker 6: that preceded it being in to use Keep's term, pretty glib.

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Speaker 6: And then it kind of like shifting and I guess

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Speaker 6: shifting into another gear, you know, at least sort of

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Speaker 6: on an emotional level. And you know, Odin Kirk, he

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Speaker 6: does his best, you know, with a character reveal that

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Speaker 6: is confusing to say the least, But yeah, I don't know.

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Speaker 6: It just felt like a weird attempt, like last minute

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Speaker 6: attempt to like put some soul back into this movie.

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Speaker 4: It does have a little bit of you know, Phoebe

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Speaker 4: Kate's talking about her dead Santa Dad in Gremlins to

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Speaker 4: it in terms of both the effort to take it

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Speaker 4: very seriously in terms of like the writing and performing,

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Speaker 4: and the degree in which it just does not fit

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Speaker 4: into this movie.

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Speaker 5: Oh boy, how do you want to get into that scene?

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Speaker 1: I also like the President's Day scene in Gremlins too,

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Speaker 1: which I just watched in the theater the other night,

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Speaker 1: which is so fun.

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Speaker 6: But what did you think of this scene?

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Speaker 1: Oh, the the tragic backstory, Yeah, don't get the word,

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Speaker 1: get the name grimlins out of your mouth. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about the scene.

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Speaker 4: Don't slap me.

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Speaker 6: Don't slap me.

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Speaker 1: At that point, like you know, you just said a

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Speaker 1: chance to put some soul back in, like sort of

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Speaker 1: you know, belated chance puts some soul back in, but

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Speaker 1: also it it I just kept thinking about Geene Water

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Speaker 1: and Blatant Saddles and his story about his tragic backstory,

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Speaker 1: and this is kind of way too close to that

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Speaker 1: very funny parody of Western trauma to actually work. But

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Speaker 1: I also was as we were talking to Slacker, I

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Speaker 1: was kind of confused as to what the actual outcome

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Speaker 1: was because I won't remember all the details. But like

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Speaker 1: he tells initially the story that he killed a girl.

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Speaker 4: I remember the details.

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Speaker 1: I brought this up because I.

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Speaker 4: Was convinced I'd missed something. Effectively, the public version of

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Speaker 4: the story is that this girl complained that her father

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Speaker 4: was molesting her. He, as Sheriff Bob Odenkirk's character Ulysses,

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Speaker 4: didn't believe her. Then he was called Dudo domestic disturbance

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Speaker 4: where he found her with a gun facing down her father,

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Speaker 4: and he told her to put down the gun, and

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Speaker 4: instead she shot her father and then turned the gun

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Speaker 4: on him and he was forced to shoot her, and

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Speaker 4: he's traumatized because you know, he had to shoot a

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Speaker 4: youngish girl. But we find out when Eddie is you know,

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Speaker 4: standing over him saying, now tell the real version of

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Speaker 4: the story for a dramatic effect character, which is about

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Speaker 4: how it comes out that Ulysses was the one that

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Speaker 4: shot the dad kind of unrighteous outrage because he had

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Speaker 4: been molesting his daughter, but you know, also just kind

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Speaker 4: of in a way to sort of avenge himself for

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Speaker 4: having let it go on. However, the physical staging of

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Speaker 4: that scene as we see it like play out the

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Speaker 4: second time, makes no sense. Watley makes a whole point

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Speaker 4: of putting it in this black box theater space with

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Speaker 4: nothing around it and zooming out so we can physically

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Speaker 4: see the positions of everybody in the room. And then

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Speaker 4: he has Ulysses shoot the kneeling father right in the forehead,

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Speaker 4: like right between the eyes, even though he's kind of

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Speaker 4: he's standing behind him, like there's there's no way that

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Speaker 4: shot makes sense with the staging we've seen. And then

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Speaker 4: in that version of the story, we don't happen find

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Speaker 4: out what happened to the girl and my theory, having

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Speaker 4: done no research on this, is that ulysses continued story

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Speaker 4: is either you know, the girl in a panic did

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Speaker 4: point the gun at him, or tried to avenge her

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Speaker 4: father and he shot her as well, or that he

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Speaker 4: shot her to cover up his uh, you know, his

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Speaker 4: his cold blood and murder. Either way, the girl has

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Speaker 4: to have ended up dead.

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Speaker 6: Right.

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Speaker 1: This is intradition though, because we don't see it and

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Speaker 1: then like.

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Speaker 4: Suddenly he's telling the story that match up with the

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Speaker 4: official facts the first time.

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Speaker 6: Well, I mean the official facts as we see them

359
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Speaker 6: are again the story as he's telling it the first time,

360
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Speaker 6: you know, and as you say, it's in this black

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Speaker 6: box theater, so it's stiles. I don't think we should,

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Speaker 6: you know, put too much stock into you know, people's

363
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Speaker 6: placements or bullet trajectories, you know, in the way it's

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Speaker 6: presented to us here. I'm not in any way like

365
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Speaker 6: defending this, like the execution of this, but how I

366
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Speaker 6: took it, and I think it's very telling that we've

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Speaker 6: all taken it differently, and I'm eager to hear how

368
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Speaker 6: Scott took it as well. But my interpretation was that

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Speaker 6: Ulysses killed the father and the girl was upset that

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Speaker 6: he took that away from her turned the gun on

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Speaker 6: Ulysses because we do kind of get this repeated flashback

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Speaker 6: of her shooting at him and he says, like, you know, she'

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Speaker 6: at me. I shot back or I shot faster or

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Speaker 6: something like that. You know, So I think the shootout

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Speaker 6: between them still happened, and I do think he still

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Speaker 6: killed this girl and that is still the thing that

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Speaker 6: haunts him. Her motivation for turning the gun on him,

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Speaker 6: I think could be a million things. My head canon

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Speaker 6: is that, like I said, she was enraged that he

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Speaker 6: had taken that from her.

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Speaker 4: But you know, my head canon is that this movie

382
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Speaker 4: had a version of that, some version of that, and

383
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Speaker 4: they decided somebody decided it needed to be cut because

384
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Speaker 4: it made Ulysses two unsympathetic regardless of why he shot

385
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Speaker 4: this girl.

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Speaker 1: Well, someone should have realized that a podcast somewhere is

387
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Speaker 1: going to spend twenty minutes trying to figure this out.

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Speaker 5: What's I know what I mean, Scott?

389
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Speaker 6: Are you going to ask us to explain headcanon to you? Again?

390
00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:51,200
Speaker 1: Well?

391
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Speaker 3: As head canon and there's also still the thing about

392
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Speaker 3: hats being in corners. We're just I think we're coming

393
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Speaker 3: up with phrases that that don't exist.

394
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Speaker 5: Like these are these are a proprietary homeless.

395
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Speaker 1: Canons out there. It is widely.

396
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Speaker 4: It's a big, a big thing.

397
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Speaker 5: Is that a Jen Alpha thing? Because I know some

398
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Speaker 5: of those phrases.

399
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Speaker 4: I first came into head cannon through fan scenes, which

400
00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:21,520
Speaker 4: has been around forever.

401
00:21:21,560 --> 00:21:22,800
Speaker 6: God Skimitty.

402
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Speaker 1: Italian brain.

403
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Speaker 4: Is the point is this guy had a head and

404
00:21:31,880 --> 00:21:34,199
Speaker 4: he got shot between the eyes with a cannon and

405
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Speaker 4: we can't figure out how that happened.

406
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Speaker 5: That is wild.

407
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Speaker 3: I will just say generally, I mean, would it surprise

408
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Speaker 3: you to learn that that once upon a time Ben

409
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Speaker 3: Wheatley was in it was a well thought of filmmaker.

410
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Speaker 3: Has he has become something else over over a stretch?

411
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Speaker 3: I mean, this was a guy who started his career

412
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Speaker 3: with with kill lists and with a field that in

413
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Speaker 3: England and these are films I didn't like. But their

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Speaker 3: film is that that earned quite a bit of respect.

415
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Speaker 3: And who who my friend in a very a very

416
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Speaker 3: respected critic, Adam Nahman, wrote a book about Ben Wheatley

417
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Speaker 3: and he was a thing. And now he is Ben Wheatley,

418
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Speaker 3: the director of the Meg two and of this movie.

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Speaker 3: And there's like it's just a career that's gone completely

420
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Speaker 3: off the rails. And I think you see a certain

421
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Speaker 3: inattention to detail. I mean, just the amount of time

422
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Speaker 3: you will have spent trying to unpack this one piece

423
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Speaker 3: of the movie kind of speaks to a kind of

424
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Speaker 3: an overall sloppiness to the film, which is which is

425
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Speaker 3: kind of why I basically kind of prefer the last

426
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Speaker 3: couple of thirds of the film because they because they're

427
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Speaker 3: slopping in a way that I find recognizable. I mean,

428
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Speaker 3: it's almost kind of cynical for me to favor those

429
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Speaker 3: parts of it just because you know that they kind

430
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Speaker 3: of push those little familiar action buttons in kind of

431
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Speaker 3: a you know, competent but not spectacular way, or semi

432
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Speaker 3: competent not spectacular way.

433
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Speaker 5: I feel like there's not.

434
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Speaker 3: A lot of follow through and enough you know, meat

435
00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:05,360
Speaker 3: to put on the bone for these for this other

436
00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,119
Speaker 3: stuff in the movie, the substant of parts of the

437
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:10,920
Speaker 3: movie to really you know, get you know, get the

438
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Speaker 3: attention they needed to work for me, which is why

439
00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:18,040
Speaker 3: that first third that set up didn't really stick with

440
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,359
Speaker 3: me as it did with you all, and why and

441
00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,399
Speaker 3: why I kind of thought, like, Okay, if it's if

442
00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,520
Speaker 3: I want to watch kind of a second rate assaulted

443
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:29,600
Speaker 3: pre six thirteen slash Real Bravo here, that's fine, you know,

444
00:23:30,119 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 3: it's okay. It's why that's watchable, and you know, and

445
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:35,680
Speaker 3: and the fact that you do get this nice little

446
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 3: pivot in the final third where where they're now united

447
00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:42,760
Speaker 3: to try to keep uh keep.

448
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:44,840
Speaker 5: The wool pulled over the yakuza's eyes.

449
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:46,600
Speaker 3: I mean, that's kind of a clever little twist and

450
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:49,040
Speaker 3: something that a movie like this could do and get

451
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:49,480
Speaker 3: away with.

452
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 5: You know, I thought that was fine.

453
00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:55,280
Speaker 1: Morbid, Fine, you left out Ben Wheatley's Rebecca, starring Lily

454
00:23:55,400 --> 00:24:00,240
Speaker 1: James and m Right. I've always seen the bad I

455
00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:01,680
Speaker 1: need to see one of the ones that people like.

456
00:24:01,760 --> 00:24:04,320
Speaker 1: But I've seen I've seen this. They kill, This is

457
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:06,680
Speaker 1: kill thisss is good for the first I've seen. I've

458
00:24:06,680 --> 00:24:08,840
Speaker 1: seen high Rise and I've seen Rebecca.

459
00:24:09,040 --> 00:24:12,960
Speaker 4: I feel like high Rise, Like high Rise kind of

460
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 4: goes off the rails in some in some wild ways,

461
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:18,520
Speaker 4: but it feels ambitious and like the first half of

462
00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,959
Speaker 4: it or so feels like coldly formalistic in a way

463
00:24:23,520 --> 00:24:26,920
Speaker 4: like even Even in the Earth from just a few

464
00:24:27,000 --> 00:24:30,800
Speaker 4: years ago. As a horror movie, feels like it's got

465
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 4: kind of a like a chili formalism going on. And

466
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:37,639
Speaker 4: even you know, Free Fire, which is a kind of

467
00:24:37,640 --> 00:24:43,000
Speaker 4: a chaotic like crime semi comedy, kind of has more

468
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:46,800
Speaker 4: energy than this. I just I have no way of

469
00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:51,760
Speaker 4: putting together the various Ben Wheelies into one single comprehensible

470
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 4: Ben Wheeley, I just I find it astonishing that the

471
00:24:54,920 --> 00:24:56,959
Speaker 4: same person that directed High Rise directed this.

472
00:24:57,640 --> 00:24:59,240
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, other than I think there's just this

473
00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:01,600
Speaker 3: has always been with him. I think he really know

474
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:04,320
Speaker 3: a film. I mean, there's a certain film literacy that

475
00:25:04,400 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 3: you expect from him, and along with that comes of versatility,

476
00:25:08,800 --> 00:25:12,720
Speaker 3: which maybe you know, connects him up with the Cowens

477
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,240
Speaker 3: in a way too, because the Collens are a better

478
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:19,879
Speaker 3: version of that of people who are super sinilliterate and

479
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:23,160
Speaker 3: can kind of work that into their films and kind

480
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,600
Speaker 3: of explore different genres in different tones. In a way,

481
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:30,040
Speaker 3: it's if you feel like they've seen a lot of

482
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,120
Speaker 3: movies and you can kind of echo them in their

483
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 3: own stuff. I mean, I think that's something that Ben

484
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:37,440
Speaker 3: Wheatley does. But it's very strange. It's an amazing thing

485
00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 3: to go from somebody as esteemed as Ben Wheatley was

486
00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:45,800
Speaker 3: to making the sequel to The Meg That is an

487
00:25:45,800 --> 00:25:46,640
Speaker 3: amazing journey.

488
00:25:46,760 --> 00:25:50,040
Speaker 4: Part of the cinematic literacy here is just sort of

489
00:25:50,080 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 4: a sense with all the yacos of stuff that he's

490
00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 4: maybe seen a lot of like eighties you brought up

491
00:25:56,280 --> 00:25:59,960
Speaker 4: Hong Kong cinema, like a lot of eighties or Japanese

492
00:26:00,000 --> 00:26:04,840
Speaker 4: these kind of like chaotic crime movies, and I feel

493
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 4: a little uncomfortable with the way the like literally every

494
00:26:08,440 --> 00:26:12,560
Speaker 4: Japanese character here is played as a stereotype, as a

495
00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 4: somewhat comic, somewhat inscrutable foreigner comes to town and doesn't

496
00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,560
Speaker 4: understand what's going on, but boy, they share are good

497
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 4: with guns. Kind of stereotype. Like there's just no sense

498
00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:28,680
Speaker 4: whatsoever that any of these people are people at all.

499
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,640
Speaker 4: And you know, you can make the argument that the

500
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,639
Speaker 4: the Midwesterners are similarly like broad and stereotyped, but a

501
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,560
Speaker 4: like at least I do have some sort of a

502
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,560
Speaker 4: sense of what they're going for as people, They're not

503
00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:45,800
Speaker 4: othered in the same way. They may be comedic types,

504
00:26:45,920 --> 00:26:48,600
Speaker 4: you know, the woman who runs her yarn store, or

505
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 4: the Kapho who loses an ear at one point, or

506
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,040
Speaker 4: Henry Winkler, who's a blast as the corrupt mayor and

507
00:26:57,080 --> 00:27:02,359
Speaker 4: disappears from the film far far too little, also entirely meant.

508
00:27:03,440 --> 00:27:05,600
Speaker 5: So yeah, well, I mean, I will say I will

509
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:06,840
Speaker 5: say I kind of like that.

510
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:10,680
Speaker 3: The yakuza who are sent to deal with this situation

511
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 3: are what I always I always like to think about

512
00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:18,120
Speaker 3: henchmen and movies and how disposable they are, because that's

513
00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 3: always kind of a fun aspect of any of these

514
00:27:20,000 --> 00:27:22,360
Speaker 3: types of movies, where it's just like, you know, these

515
00:27:22,359 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 3: are the these are these guys show up to work

516
00:27:24,000 --> 00:27:26,560
Speaker 3: every day and they're not sure if their impulsive boss

517
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,280
Speaker 3: is just going to shoot them dead for just to

518
00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 3: make a point. I just I always find the life

519
00:27:30,640 --> 00:27:32,800
Speaker 3: of a henchman kind of interesting and and I think

520
00:27:32,880 --> 00:27:36,919
Speaker 3: they're kind of sent on this mission with great reluctance

521
00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,040
Speaker 3: and and kind of just you know, have to drag

522
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:42,679
Speaker 3: themselves into this situation that turns out to be an

523
00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 3: absolute nightmare. So in that sense, they're you know, they're

524
00:27:45,760 --> 00:27:49,040
Speaker 3: a little bit humanized but at the same time highly

525
00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:52,760
Speaker 3: underdeveloped in in cartoony, which is kind of the style

526
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 3: of the movie.

527
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:55,680
Speaker 4: Anyway, Well, they sure don't like the Minnesota winters.

528
00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,600
Speaker 1: Got did you see the athleteed Austin Powers seeing about

529
00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,040
Speaker 1: the henchmen to fight? Didn't send it to you, But

530
00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,720
Speaker 1: but there's a there's a leader scene from the first

531
00:28:02,760 --> 00:28:04,680
Speaker 1: Austin Powers movie that I can see what they cut it.

532
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:07,440
Speaker 1: It's long and it was sidetracked the movie. It's basically

533
00:28:07,840 --> 00:28:10,360
Speaker 1: a henchman dies and there's just like this long sequence

534
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: of them taking the news to his family about his

535
00:28:13,680 --> 00:28:15,199
Speaker 1: death and how upset they are.

536
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 5: I love that.

537
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,760
Speaker 3: The other the other, the other great henchman moment for

538
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:22,920
Speaker 3: me is is one of my favorite joke in the

539
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 3: movie Black Dynamite, when when he's he's sparring with all

540
00:28:28,000 --> 00:28:30,360
Speaker 3: of these with all of these poor guys and either

541
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:32,840
Speaker 3: just get their butts kicked in that Cameron just focuses

542
00:28:32,960 --> 00:28:36,720
Speaker 3: on one and one of these henchmen who just getting

543
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:38,800
Speaker 3: kicked in the face and falling to the mat. It's

544
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,640
Speaker 3: just like suddenly the shift to the type of side

545
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:44,600
Speaker 3: character that that never gets any attention. That's what I

546
00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:47,320
Speaker 3: love that because it's something I think about all the time,

547
00:28:47,400 --> 00:28:50,200
Speaker 3: and at least this movie give you just that little

548
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,160
Speaker 3: bit of thought, uh, to these poor poor suckers who

549
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,680
Speaker 3: have to take care of the situation at their boss's.

550
00:28:56,320 --> 00:28:58,040
Speaker 6: Behest after a ten hour flight.

551
00:28:58,440 --> 00:29:00,440
Speaker 5: That's true, yeah's flight.

552
00:29:01,640 --> 00:29:03,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, Well, it feels like perhaps we have we have

553
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:07,280
Speaker 1: exhausted what we had to say about Normal as a

554
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: movie onto itself, but as a kind of a dark mirror,

555
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,040
Speaker 1: if you will. To to Fario, I think there's more

556
00:29:13,160 --> 00:29:16,520
Speaker 1: choice left in this in this uh fruit berry something

557
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 1: or other. Okay, well we'll figure it out after we

558
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:28,040
Speaker 1: take a short break. The Next Picture Show always presented

559
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,000
Speaker 1: by Legal Unlimited, the all you can watch movie subscription,

560
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:33,920
Speaker 1: past pace for itself in just two visits. You know,

561
00:29:34,040 --> 00:29:36,720
Speaker 1: at some point we realized that the very concept of

562
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,560
Speaker 1: the Next Picture Show might have a high barrier of

563
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: entry for some listeners to watch. Everything we discuss as

564
00:29:43,000 --> 00:29:46,080
Speaker 1: new episodes appear involves, you know, two trips to the

565
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:49,400
Speaker 1: movie theater. That's a sizeable chunk of time and money.

566
00:29:49,960 --> 00:29:52,120
Speaker 1: We can't help you with time management. That's you're on

567
00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:54,640
Speaker 1: your own there, but we can help you save some money.

568
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:57,880
Speaker 1: Right now, Rigal is offering Next Picture Show listeners a

569
00:29:58,040 --> 00:30:00,800
Speaker 1: chance to see not just the two movies we cover

570
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:05,080
Speaker 1: each month, but much much more. When you sign up

571
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:09,480
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572
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573
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574
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Speaker 1: all non alcoholic concessions. Again, that pays for itself with

575
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,960
Speaker 1: just two trips to the movies at least. When it

576
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 1: comes to ticket prices, your concession budget is a problem

577
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:28,640
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578
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579
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Speaker 1: app or follow the link in this episode subscription and

580
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581
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582
00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:45,320
Speaker 6: Sorry, look, let's just wait for some more back.

583
00:30:45,400 --> 00:30:48,240
Speaker 7: You don't play this right, We're gonna have massacre in there,

584
00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:55,480
Speaker 7: you guys. Okay, Yeah, calm down. This is messy.

585
00:30:57,240 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 4: What do we get a do about it?

586
00:30:58,880 --> 00:30:59,000
Speaker 6: Now?

587
00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:00,960
Speaker 1: It's time for connection, where we bring these two films

588
00:31:00,960 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: together and talk about all the things they have in common.

589
00:31:03,400 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 1: I've kind of already thrown this out a little where

590
00:31:05,400 --> 00:31:11,320
Speaker 1: where to me, normal is the anti Fargo? But does

591
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,800
Speaker 1: that make it interesting? Like sort of like I don't

592
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,240
Speaker 1: know that it justly had Fargo in mind, but it

593
00:31:17,280 --> 00:31:20,240
Speaker 1: certainly kind of turns the whole you know, nice town

594
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: full of nice people notion on its head. But I

595
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 1: also found that joke worth in very quickly. How about

596
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 1: everybody else?

597
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:34,080
Speaker 6: I mean, I think Normal has to make its entire

598
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 6: town unsympathetic so that it can kill them off unceremoniously

599
00:31:39,040 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 6: without us feeling bad about it. You know, Like the

600
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 6: thing that the film is like built to do more

601
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,320
Speaker 6: than anything else is just kill a bunch of people,

602
00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:51,080
Speaker 6: So you need to provide a bunch of targets. And

603
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 6: in Fargo, like, yeah, a lot of people die, but

604
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 6: they're all people that we know, and they're not all

605
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 6: necessarily good people. But you know, we spoke about Gene,

606
00:32:03,640 --> 00:32:07,200
Speaker 6: you know, that hitting really hard, you know, especially in

607
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,560
Speaker 6: the context of how her ordeal had been treated up

608
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:15,400
Speaker 6: until that point. And you know that the deaths don't

609
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 6: feel meaningless in Fargo, because even if they aren't all

610
00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:25,920
Speaker 6: good people, like the world they're in feels populated by

611
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:30,520
Speaker 6: real people, and like their deaths have real consequence, I

612
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,560
Speaker 6: guess because of that. Whereas all the people in the

613
00:32:34,640 --> 00:32:36,520
Speaker 6: town of Normal and the film of Normal, you know,

614
00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,960
Speaker 6: as we've said, are kind of cardboard cutouts, cartoon characters.

615
00:32:40,040 --> 00:32:43,240
Speaker 6: They're just being set up to be knocked down, you know,

616
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 6: like carnival shooting game kind of so you know, Ulysses

617
00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 6: and to extend, the bank robbers are kind of our

618
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 6: only you know, I guess sympathetic characters or like characters

619
00:32:54,760 --> 00:32:56,760
Speaker 6: that we would care about getting out of this, I

620
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 6: guess and Alex.

621
00:32:58,240 --> 00:33:01,440
Speaker 1: But yeah, as far as like the backgrounder dog, let's

622
00:33:01,480 --> 00:33:02,240
Speaker 1: not forget.

623
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 6: Oh of course, of course who was in the car

624
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,800
Speaker 6: the whole time and totally fine, fine because.

625
00:33:06,680 --> 00:33:08,880
Speaker 1: He was on We're told by a lot of dialogue

626
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:09,680
Speaker 1: that had to be included.

627
00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:10,600
Speaker 5: One thing.

628
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:12,960
Speaker 3: But both movies have me thinking about and I want

629
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:16,200
Speaker 3: to ask you all about this. Is this the notion

630
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,560
Speaker 3: of Minnesota and Ice? Because it's something you hear a

631
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 3: lot about, and it was always a phrase that I

632
00:33:21,360 --> 00:33:25,680
Speaker 3: had associated with a false niceness, of a surface niceness

633
00:33:25,720 --> 00:33:28,480
Speaker 3: that in fact, when you pick away at it, you know,

634
00:33:28,600 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 3: you get something a little bit more complicated and potentially

635
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,120
Speaker 3: sinister under the surface. But when I've been up to

636
00:33:34,160 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: Minnesota recently on college visits, I've heard that phrase applied

637
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:42,080
Speaker 3: without any of that dark stuff at all, of Minnesota

638
00:33:42,080 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 3: and Ice as being something where just people from Minnesota

639
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 3: or I just an or a bunch of nice people,

640
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 3: and so I was kind of curious about how that

641
00:33:48,880 --> 00:33:51,240
Speaker 3: is manifested, how well, first of all, would you think

642
00:33:51,280 --> 00:33:53,080
Speaker 3: when you hear the phrase Minnesota and ice, but also

643
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,000
Speaker 3: how that concept is sort of manifests itself in both

644
00:33:56,040 --> 00:33:56,719
Speaker 3: of these movies.

645
00:33:57,120 --> 00:33:58,840
Speaker 4: I mean, when I hear the phrase, I think of Fargo.

646
00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,640
Speaker 4: I don't have a lot of experience with this, like

647
00:34:01,800 --> 00:34:06,840
Speaker 4: personally up close. Keith had a question in the script

648
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,080
Speaker 4: that was like, you know, we're we're all from the Midwest,

649
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 4: how do you relate to Minnesota and ice? And I'm like,

650
00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:14,400
Speaker 4: there's no such thing as Chicago ice. Nobody says that.

651
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:16,880
Speaker 4: I don't know. I don't know how to relate to that.

652
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:20,839
Speaker 4: I do think in both of these movies, though, there's

653
00:34:20,920 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 4: maybe a sense of community that I associate with the

654
00:34:25,200 --> 00:34:28,560
Speaker 4: phrase that has nothing to do with whether people are

655
00:34:28,960 --> 00:34:31,560
Speaker 4: lying when they say things, whether people have, you know,

656
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:36,000
Speaker 4: darker motives. There's a sort of sense like one of

657
00:34:36,040 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 4: the reasons Jerry comes across as a villain is because

658
00:34:39,960 --> 00:34:43,080
Speaker 4: he kind of breaks the compact, like he's lying to

659
00:34:43,360 --> 00:34:48,480
Speaker 4: the people who are closest to him, and he's turning

660
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:52,200
Speaker 4: on somebody who depends on him. And loves him and

661
00:34:52,320 --> 00:34:55,719
Speaker 4: trusts him, so you know, it may be it may

662
00:34:55,760 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 4: be surfacy.

663
00:34:56,920 --> 00:34:58,560
Speaker 2: It may be the gag that.

664
00:34:58,680 --> 00:35:02,520
Speaker 4: Were you know, verting this in a very blue velvet,

665
00:35:02,800 --> 00:35:05,440
Speaker 4: you know, the suburbs of full and nastiness kind of way.

666
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,879
Speaker 4: Like the joke here, rather than aiming at any sort

667
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:12,759
Speaker 4: of truth, may just be like, look how cheery and

668
00:35:12,920 --> 00:35:16,920
Speaker 4: chipper no, no wood chipper puns intended. These people are.

669
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 4: Of course, there's got to be darkness under it somewhere.

670
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:22,239
Speaker 4: If anything, it feels like a certain amount of cynicism

671
00:35:22,960 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 4: is just built into the assumption that if people are nice,

672
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:28,279
Speaker 4: they've got to be hiding something.

673
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,879
Speaker 6: Right for me, Minnesota, nice is not about character. It's

674
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 6: about communication and how you talk to people and interact

675
00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:40,960
Speaker 6: with people. And Fargo is like really good at encapsulating

676
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:44,000
Speaker 6: that just in the way its characters speak. One of

677
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 6: the things I grocked on this viewing was Jerry's vocal

678
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 6: tick up, Okay, real good. Then like every phone call

679
00:35:52,160 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 6: ends with okay, real good. But then no matter what

680
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:57,800
Speaker 6: has preceded it, you know, like, no matter how stressful

681
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:01,799
Speaker 6: this situation, okay, real good. How like he signs off,

682
00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:08,080
Speaker 6: you know, and just sort of This reflexive politeness, regardless

683
00:36:08,239 --> 00:36:10,920
Speaker 6: of what you're actually thinking or feeling in that moment,

684
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:14,800
Speaker 6: is kind of how I interpret Minnesota and Ice, certainly

685
00:36:14,880 --> 00:36:18,720
Speaker 6: in Fargo's execution of it. I think Normal leans pretty

686
00:36:18,760 --> 00:36:23,360
Speaker 6: heavily on our familiarity with Fargo and its execution of

687
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:25,960
Speaker 6: Minnesota and Ice. I don't think it like puts a

688
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,600
Speaker 6: whole lot of effort into it, outside of maybe the

689
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:32,840
Speaker 6: whole pot luck thing, you know, and the feeding people that, like,

690
00:36:33,320 --> 00:36:37,360
Speaker 6: you know, just the idea that a gathering involves sharing

691
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:39,440
Speaker 6: food and that like kind of what you were going

692
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,120
Speaker 6: or what you were saying about community, Tasha, you know,

693
00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:46,839
Speaker 6: and it's kind of disconnected from what these who these

694
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:50,200
Speaker 6: characters actually are inside or what they're feeling or thinking,

695
00:36:50,640 --> 00:36:53,360
Speaker 6: and it's just what they do because it's what we

696
00:36:53,520 --> 00:36:56,000
Speaker 6: do here, you know. This is how we talk to

697
00:36:56,120 --> 00:36:59,880
Speaker 6: each other, This is how we treat each other in public,

698
00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:05,239
Speaker 6: this is how we sign off our phone conversations. And

699
00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:10,360
Speaker 6: it's sort of, you know, culturally codified, but it doesn't

700
00:37:10,560 --> 00:37:15,120
Speaker 6: actually reflect anything about the people who are communicating in

701
00:37:15,239 --> 00:37:19,120
Speaker 6: this fashion who they really are, because both movies, you know,

702
00:37:19,239 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 6: make very clear that these are for the most part

703
00:37:21,440 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 6: not nice people.

704
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think there was a code of behavior more

705
00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:28,040
Speaker 1: than not as something necessarily morally neutral. But but it's

706
00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:30,120
Speaker 1: certainly you know, it's a folk way. It's it's the

707
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,680
Speaker 1: way people behave in this part of the world. And

708
00:37:33,440 --> 00:37:35,360
Speaker 1: I think part of what makes Pargo work is you

709
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:40,120
Speaker 1: actually see you know, Margins in body is both Minnesota

710
00:37:40,120 --> 00:37:44,040
Speaker 1: and nice, but also we see goodness in her as well,

711
00:37:44,920 --> 00:37:45,960
Speaker 1: and they're two different things.

712
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,960
Speaker 3: I think also both films that have an interesting insolarity.

713
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 3: I think they're these communities that that manifests themselves in

714
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:58,600
Speaker 3: different ways. In Fargo and in a town like Brainerd,

715
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,840
Speaker 3: there's a war and and uh, you know, people know

716
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:03,640
Speaker 3: each other and they bring each other coffee and are

717
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:05,480
Speaker 3: nice about it, even though the coffee may not be

718
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,719
Speaker 3: very good. Uh. They talk about the frickasy and and uh,

719
00:38:08,920 --> 00:38:12,440
Speaker 3: and there's definitely a a good feeling coming from that

720
00:38:12,760 --> 00:38:16,800
Speaker 3: that group and also an acute awareness of outsiders that

721
00:38:17,000 --> 00:38:20,320
Speaker 3: are not welcome there. Of of when when Carl shows

722
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,600
Speaker 3: up and and and his buddy show up in town,

723
00:38:22,760 --> 00:38:25,239
Speaker 3: like people remember them because they're not they're out of place,

724
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:26,799
Speaker 3: that it's the funny looking guy.

725
00:38:27,320 --> 00:38:31,160
Speaker 5: But in in uh normal uh, there's that there's the

726
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:32,359
Speaker 5: insularity of that community too.

727
00:38:32,440 --> 00:38:36,319
Speaker 3: But but it is about the maintenance of a conspiracy,

728
00:38:36,440 --> 00:38:39,600
Speaker 3: of a criminal conspiracy, uh that they have come together

729
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,359
Speaker 3: on and they've they have all collectively as a as

730
00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,960
Speaker 3: a town become corrupted, uh by the presence of this

731
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:49,800
Speaker 3: money and by the influence of the who's uh you

732
00:38:49,880 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 3: know into into you know, becoming you.

733
00:38:52,680 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 5: Know, some perverse version of what they might have been before.

734
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:55,520
Speaker 4: You know.

735
00:38:55,600 --> 00:38:57,360
Speaker 5: So you do get that veneer of.

736
00:38:57,600 --> 00:39:01,200
Speaker 3: Minnesota and ice uh where where they present themselves as

737
00:39:02,280 --> 00:39:04,200
Speaker 3: the types of people you would expect if you were

738
00:39:04,320 --> 00:39:07,719
Speaker 3: to go into a town called normal Minnesota. But they

739
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 3: turn out to be anything but the sort of people

740
00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:10,800
Speaker 3: you'd expect.

741
00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,000
Speaker 4: One thing we just really didn't discuss and talking about

742
00:39:14,080 --> 00:39:17,000
Speaker 4: normal is I don't know that the inciting incident makes

743
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,640
Speaker 4: any sense whatsoever in terms of how it's staged, how

744
00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:22,280
Speaker 4: it happens, how it's planned.

745
00:39:22,719 --> 00:39:24,520
Speaker 6: So are do you want the bank robbery or the

746
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:25,440
Speaker 6: yoya kuza?

747
00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 4: No specifically the like, let's kill Ulysses while he's still

748
00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:32,360
Speaker 4: outside the bank?

749
00:39:32,680 --> 00:39:34,120
Speaker 6: Okay, yes, like that.

750
00:39:34,600 --> 00:39:36,640
Speaker 4: The way it's staged and the way it goes about

751
00:39:36,760 --> 00:39:39,360
Speaker 4: just doesn't make any sense. And like one of the

752
00:39:39,440 --> 00:39:42,320
Speaker 4: things we were talking about, like we disagree about different

753
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:44,680
Speaker 4: pieces of Fargo and what they say and how they

754
00:39:44,719 --> 00:39:46,760
Speaker 4: fit together, but we all agree that they fit together.

755
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,600
Speaker 4: And there's just too much Normal that doesn't seem to

756
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 4: fit together, that just doesn't make a whole lot of

757
00:39:53,120 --> 00:39:57,840
Speaker 4: sense when it comes to human behavior. So like, I

758
00:39:57,880 --> 00:40:01,080
Speaker 4: don't know anything that normal says about actually human behavior,

759
00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:03,239
Speaker 4: whether it's you know, the codes of community or the

760
00:40:03,360 --> 00:40:06,360
Speaker 4: codes of nice. I just don't know that I believe

761
00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,960
Speaker 4: it's particularly like thought through or in intentional. I will

762
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:13,440
Speaker 4: say as the being the opposite of Fargo goes, one

763
00:40:13,480 --> 00:40:15,680
Speaker 4: of the things that really stands out for me is

764
00:40:15,800 --> 00:40:19,800
Speaker 4: the difference between you know, we talked a bit about Fargo,

765
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:22,040
Speaker 4: all of the information that we don't have and don't know.

766
00:40:22,680 --> 00:40:25,680
Speaker 4: Normal is in a weird place where it's also missing

767
00:40:25,760 --> 00:40:29,319
Speaker 4: information that seems key, and at the same time it's

768
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 4: just it's too talky. There's just too much explanation, Like

769
00:40:33,719 --> 00:40:36,200
Speaker 4: we don't know why the bank robbers do what they

770
00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:39,120
Speaker 4: do where they come from. But boy, we sure do

771
00:40:39,280 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 4: get a lot of like lecturing about who Ulysses is

772
00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:44,440
Speaker 4: and where he's from and what that means and how

773
00:40:44,520 --> 00:40:48,239
Speaker 4: he feels about it, and we have no idea how

774
00:40:49,480 --> 00:40:55,200
Speaker 4: this particular community came to hold like clearly many millions

775
00:40:55,239 --> 00:40:58,080
Speaker 4: of dollars for the Akuza, but we sure do get

776
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 4: a whole bunch of like wordy explain nation of like

777
00:41:00,560 --> 00:41:03,000
Speaker 4: what it's done for the community. I just feel like

778
00:41:03,040 --> 00:41:08,719
Speaker 4: there's a really weird imbalance in Normal between too much

779
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:13,399
Speaker 4: information and not enough information, Whereas you know, Fargo kind

780
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:15,880
Speaker 4: of gives us what we need to know, lets us

781
00:41:15,920 --> 00:41:18,200
Speaker 4: into it a lot of the rest. As we talked about,

782
00:41:18,239 --> 00:41:21,680
Speaker 4: like individual lines are so efficient. I cannot point to

783
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 4: a single thing in Normal.

784
00:41:22,719 --> 00:41:23,719
Speaker 6: It's like that Normal.

785
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:25,480
Speaker 1: I felt like the user just kind of chose a

786
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:28,239
Speaker 1: community on the map, like port the map. That didn't

787
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:30,840
Speaker 1: bother me as much as we're do I was. I

788
00:41:30,960 --> 00:41:33,520
Speaker 1: was frond Myselff more thinking about the job market for

789
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: temporary sheriffs, which you know, which seems to be a

790
00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: viable career path for this apparently you know, presumably disgraced

791
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:44,880
Speaker 1: Sreff who left, who left his job in shame, and

792
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,879
Speaker 1: yet he's got this job. At the end of the film,

793
00:41:46,880 --> 00:41:49,239
Speaker 1: he's lined up another job. It's sort of like a

794
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: high plane drifter kind of there's a new sheriff in

795
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,480
Speaker 1: town for two weeks that I'm out of here? You

796
00:41:54,880 --> 00:41:55,680
Speaker 1: are you are you saying?

797
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:59,520
Speaker 3: Are you saying that in America the people people with

798
00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:02,280
Speaker 3: those of the these types of jobs are not terribly

799
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,000
Speaker 3: well vetted. They could just think you just just any

800
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:11,640
Speaker 3: common uh lawless scumbag can get a job as a

801
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:12,640
Speaker 3: as a.

802
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,120
Speaker 5: Person of authority on question.

803
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,359
Speaker 4: You know, if I thought there was an actual commentary

804
00:42:18,560 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 4: on that in the movie, I would be impressed, much

805
00:42:20,680 --> 00:42:23,560
Speaker 4: as you know, if I thought the militarization of the

806
00:42:23,680 --> 00:42:26,759
Speaker 4: police in Normal is meant to be a comment on

807
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:28,799
Speaker 4: like the militarization of the police kind of.

808
00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:30,839
Speaker 5: Thought it was. I thought it was well.

809
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 6: I thought the initial excuse she gives for the sorry

810
00:42:36,680 --> 00:42:42,600
Speaker 6: the police like administrative woman. I don't recall her character's name,

811
00:42:42,680 --> 00:42:45,600
Speaker 6: but she the explanation she gives is that the sheriff

812
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:48,719
Speaker 6: like after nine to eleven, they were just like kind

813
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,680
Speaker 6: of giving away the stuff, you know, and like that

814
00:42:52,880 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 6: did feel like there was like a little bit of

815
00:42:55,320 --> 00:43:00,239
Speaker 6: commentary happening there. Then once the Yakuza reveals such it

816
00:43:00,400 --> 00:43:03,719
Speaker 6: is happens, it's like, oh no, it's just that, you know,

817
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:06,440
Speaker 6: like like there there is no commentary there.

818
00:43:06,880 --> 00:43:09,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt like we were getting into satirical territory

819
00:43:09,800 --> 00:43:12,400
Speaker 1: at first too. But then but then we just did

820
00:43:12,480 --> 00:43:13,799
Speaker 1: not You.

821
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:16,479
Speaker 3: Just the film wants to kind of like back away

822
00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:19,040
Speaker 3: from anything interesting that it brings up. It just wait

823
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:21,600
Speaker 3: a minute, while we're almost getting we're getting into something

824
00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:23,680
Speaker 3: here we got I got a tiptoe away and.

825
00:43:24,080 --> 00:43:26,880
Speaker 6: You know, just a real quick return to something Tasha

826
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,360
Speaker 6: was saying about, just like they're not being a memorable

827
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:32,600
Speaker 6: line in uh Normal. I do want to give credit

828
00:43:32,640 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 6: for at least one line that I did like and

829
00:43:34,600 --> 00:43:39,600
Speaker 6: think was fairly sticky, which was Ulysses somewhat repeated refrain

830
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:43,680
Speaker 6: of calm Kleen's messy sort of a character defining catchphrase,

831
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:47,480
Speaker 6: I think, and you know, I guess it fits with

832
00:43:47,680 --> 00:43:50,200
Speaker 6: the character of Ulysses sort of this, you know, his

833
00:43:50,360 --> 00:43:53,880
Speaker 6: calmness is his defining trait. And it was just like

834
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,399
Speaker 6: it was a nice little phrase. So I'll give I'll

835
00:43:56,400 --> 00:43:56,799
Speaker 6: give Normal.

836
00:43:56,920 --> 00:43:57,560
Speaker 5: I watch another.

837
00:43:57,719 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: I wouldn't mind another movie with that character, just a

838
00:44:00,400 --> 00:44:02,000
Speaker 1: very different sort of movie.

839
00:44:02,480 --> 00:44:04,160
Speaker 6: Well, one thing we should a different scenario.

840
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:06,440
Speaker 1: One thing we should talk about is the violence in

841
00:44:06,520 --> 00:44:09,840
Speaker 1: each of these. The editorial writer from the from the

842
00:44:09,920 --> 00:44:13,600
Speaker 1: better newspaper. I quote it in their previous episode objected

843
00:44:13,640 --> 00:44:16,840
Speaker 1: to all the violence in Fargo. Clearly there's a lot more,

844
00:44:17,719 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 1: you know, just the volume of violence in Normal is

845
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: much higher than Fargo. But they're very different types of violence.

846
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:28,360
Speaker 1: I feel, you know, I I think feel like the

847
00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,680
Speaker 1: every act of violence in Fargo hits a lot harder

848
00:44:33,360 --> 00:44:39,960
Speaker 1: than any death in Normal. Did anyone else have that experience? Yeah,

849
00:44:42,920 --> 00:44:43,960
Speaker 1: there's a lot of no's.

850
00:44:45,760 --> 00:44:47,359
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I mean, what do you But I don't.

851
00:44:47,440 --> 00:44:50,440
Speaker 3: I also don't. I also think, you know, there's to

852
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:54,440
Speaker 3: give some defensive Normal. I don't think really the intent

853
00:44:54,640 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 3: is for is for death to hit you with that heart,

854
00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:00,760
Speaker 3: it's this is for fun. Yeah, you know, I in Fargo,

855
00:45:00,880 --> 00:45:03,439
Speaker 3: this there's the there's an intentionality there. There's a weight

856
00:45:03,880 --> 00:45:08,080
Speaker 3: to the loss losses in that movie, though, I will

857
00:45:08,120 --> 00:45:12,080
Speaker 3: say also there's there there's a variety to Fargo to

858
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,920
Speaker 3: in terms of how how we how some of the

859
00:45:15,080 --> 00:45:17,239
Speaker 3: certain dusts are stage because we do you know, we

860
00:45:17,400 --> 00:45:20,560
Speaker 3: may be chilled by discovering what has happened to Jeane,

861
00:45:21,120 --> 00:45:23,480
Speaker 3: but then you know the way that her father ends

862
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:25,880
Speaker 3: up ends up getting shot. There's there's a sort of

863
00:45:25,880 --> 00:45:28,480
Speaker 3: a there's a comedy to that, and there's quite a

864
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:33,240
Speaker 3: bit of comedy to what happens to uh, poor Carl

865
00:45:33,560 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 3: getting fed into the wood chipper.

866
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:39,959
Speaker 6: Just that that image of the when Marge is coming

867
00:45:40,080 --> 00:45:42,520
Speaker 6: up on him with the gun and just the image

868
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,160
Speaker 6: of the foot sticking out of the top of the

869
00:45:45,440 --> 00:45:48,040
Speaker 6: wood chipper. You know, it's just like it's such.

870
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 4: A huge, wide blood spray.

871
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:51,920
Speaker 1: It's not a great plan for disposing of body, I

872
00:45:51,960 --> 00:45:56,280
Speaker 1: gotta say. But then we know, you know, genius plans

873
00:45:56,320 --> 00:45:56,719
Speaker 1: from care.

874
00:45:57,239 --> 00:46:01,399
Speaker 6: Yeah, but like the way both of these movies communify

875
00:46:01,800 --> 00:46:04,840
Speaker 6: their violence, you know, one is doing it better than

876
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,960
Speaker 6: the other. I think we're gonna be dwelling on that point.

877
00:46:08,040 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 6: But there was one part in Nowhere that just drove

878
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:17,080
Speaker 6: me crazy, which, you know, normal. My god, I can't

879
00:46:17,120 --> 00:46:21,279
Speaker 6: stop calling this movie Nowhere. We can leave this in

880
00:46:21,760 --> 00:46:25,239
Speaker 6: because I feel like my inability to remember that this

881
00:46:25,400 --> 00:46:27,800
Speaker 6: movie is called Normal and not Nowhere.

882
00:46:27,680 --> 00:46:33,680
Speaker 1: Says you know, yeah, it's just too you know, it's

883
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:34,200
Speaker 1: too close.

884
00:46:35,239 --> 00:46:37,840
Speaker 6: But there's the scene in Normal, or there was a

885
00:46:37,880 --> 00:46:40,520
Speaker 6: bit of Normal that drove me a little crazy, you know,

886
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:43,960
Speaker 6: speaking about sort of the variety of kills. One of

887
00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,480
Speaker 6: Normal's rare non gun kills involved like a big piece

888
00:46:48,560 --> 00:46:53,040
Speaker 6: of signage like falling on someone, followed by Lorie the

889
00:46:53,120 --> 00:46:57,400
Speaker 6: bank robber exclaiming joyfully, Yeah, physics, bitch, And it's like,

890
00:46:57,719 --> 00:47:01,480
Speaker 6: why would that character say that, that's not really physics.

891
00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:05,120
Speaker 6: There's nothing like setting up that line, like that character

892
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:07,120
Speaker 6: saying that line. It just felt like such a punch

893
00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:09,880
Speaker 6: up based comedic beat, you know, not part of the

894
00:47:09,960 --> 00:47:13,120
Speaker 6: fabric of the movie at all or the character, whereas

895
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 6: feeding your annoying coworker into a wood chipper is a

896
00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:22,600
Speaker 6: very specific and character based, you know, type of comedic violence.

897
00:47:23,160 --> 00:47:26,319
Speaker 4: You know, you did have me actually curious about whether

898
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:28,759
Speaker 4: a wood chipper could dispose of a human body. So

899
00:47:29,239 --> 00:47:32,200
Speaker 4: I went to my second screen and asked, and what

900
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,800
Speaker 4: came up was it's just the most ai written piece

901
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:40,719
Speaker 4: of bs Internet content ever, is probably ten thousand words long,

902
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:46,640
Speaker 4: and it goes into things like understanding wood chippers, safety precautions,

903
00:47:47,000 --> 00:47:51,440
Speaker 4: alternatives to wood chippers, understanding wood chippers, different types of

904
00:47:51,520 --> 00:47:55,759
Speaker 4: wood chippers, wood chippers mechanisms. Is like, where's the person

905
00:47:55,800 --> 00:47:59,799
Speaker 4: who just asked a scientist what happens if you feed

906
00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:02,840
Speaker 4: Steve Buscemi specifically into a wood chipper?

907
00:48:04,320 --> 00:48:06,240
Speaker 5: There's only one way to find out, Tasha.

908
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 4: That's I don't know.

909
00:48:08,360 --> 00:48:11,240
Speaker 6: I mean, I'm surprised when you search for that, Tasha,

910
00:48:11,560 --> 00:48:13,560
Speaker 6: the screen didn't come up and just say physics, bitch.

911
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:19,520
Speaker 4: I would object to feeding Steve Bushemi into a wood

912
00:48:19,600 --> 00:48:22,800
Speaker 4: chipper for science first, because he's our only Steve Buscemi.

913
00:48:23,320 --> 00:48:27,279
Speaker 4: He's irreplaceable. There's nobody else who looks quite weird like that,

914
00:48:27,719 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 4: and he does yeh, funny looking. But also he is

915
00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:33,800
Speaker 4: much older than he was in Fargo, and he is

916
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:35,839
Speaker 4: probably a lot more brittle, so it wouldn't really tell

917
00:48:35,920 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 4: us anything scientifically. And also the violence in Normal is

918
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 4: repetitive and boring.

919
00:48:42,040 --> 00:48:44,960
Speaker 6: Well, I'm going to use this to segue us into

920
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:49,600
Speaker 6: another connection, speaking of bloodied snow, and I want to

921
00:48:50,160 --> 00:48:52,839
Speaker 6: just raise the connection of you know, these are both

922
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:58,200
Speaker 6: snowy settings, and they are filmed in a variety of ways,

923
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 6: and they both involved of storms, you know, like white

924
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:07,520
Speaker 6: out storms, you know, and Fargo. Those opening shots of

925
00:49:07,640 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 6: Fargo of the car driving through the white you know,

926
00:49:11,760 --> 00:49:15,319
Speaker 6: and just like becoming very very very slowly visible as

927
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:19,480
Speaker 6: that score builds, you know, and kind of like pushing

928
00:49:19,960 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 6: through the dense fog of whiteness is just so beautifully executed,

929
00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,759
Speaker 6: and it gets kind of echoed again at the end

930
00:49:29,840 --> 00:49:33,040
Speaker 6: of the film, and of course the blood on the

931
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:37,239
Speaker 6: snow is a very memorable image. Do you feel like

932
00:49:37,360 --> 00:49:43,239
Speaker 6: normal does anything interesting with the setting or the specifically

933
00:49:43,440 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 6: like the nighttime storm that where a lot of the

934
00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:52,080
Speaker 6: shootout takes place, which you know nighttime action can be tricky,

935
00:49:52,360 --> 00:49:56,320
Speaker 6: you know, to film those scenes felt very visually muddy

936
00:49:56,360 --> 00:50:00,840
Speaker 6: to me and kind of felt like the storm was

937
00:50:01,160 --> 00:50:04,279
Speaker 6: being used as a way to kind of cheat on

938
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,320
Speaker 6: the meson scene a bit, you know, being able to

939
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:09,800
Speaker 6: it just felt like we were in a little box,

940
00:50:10,160 --> 00:50:13,719
Speaker 6: you know, on this supposed main street that I don't

941
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:17,080
Speaker 6: believe was actually being filmed on anything other than a

942
00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:20,239
Speaker 6: lot at that point. But do you guys disagree there?

943
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:21,680
Speaker 1: Well, before we get to that, I can tell you

944
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:24,920
Speaker 1: that the opening scene and the nighttime scenes in Fargo

945
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:26,920
Speaker 1: were very difficult to shoot, and you can read all

946
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:31,040
Speaker 1: about it in Roger Deacon's books Reflections, which is an

947
00:50:31,040 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 1: excellent book and full of full of stories about making

948
00:50:34,440 --> 00:50:36,799
Speaker 1: a Fargo. They kept having to go further and further

949
00:50:36,920 --> 00:50:39,440
Speaker 1: north because they need it more snow. But yet no,

950
00:50:39,520 --> 00:50:42,800
Speaker 1: I think you make a really good point about about Normal,

951
00:50:43,280 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 1: not to just rag on it compared to Fargo. But yeah,

952
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,960
Speaker 1: it does not make great use of the snow or

953
00:50:49,239 --> 00:50:51,960
Speaker 1: the location. It's claustrophobic, but not in a way that

954
00:50:52,080 --> 00:50:55,640
Speaker 1: feels like, you know, that serves serves the film.

955
00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,480
Speaker 4: I kind of like the idea of being able to

956
00:51:00,120 --> 00:51:05,319
Speaker 4: escape the scene on a giant, like mega industrial sized snowplow,

957
00:51:05,800 --> 00:51:08,439
Speaker 4: both because it's the only thing that could get through

958
00:51:09,080 --> 00:51:12,400
Speaker 4: such a storm and you know, because it just it

959
00:51:12,520 --> 00:51:16,440
Speaker 4: completely foils pursuit, while also kind of ironically creating a

960
00:51:16,640 --> 00:51:19,759
Speaker 4: lane for pursuit by plombing the snow. But the movie

961
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 4: doesn't do anything with that at all besides having people

962
00:51:23,440 --> 00:51:25,239
Speaker 4: knowed it go by and kind of say, oh, they're

963
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 4: escaping in a snowplow. I will say I found the

964
00:51:29,239 --> 00:51:33,600
Speaker 4: fakeness of the snow in Normal really really distracting at times.

965
00:51:34,239 --> 00:51:36,960
Speaker 4: During act too, there's just a lot of you know,

966
00:51:37,120 --> 00:51:39,600
Speaker 4: people get get knocked down in the street and fall

967
00:51:39,719 --> 00:51:43,680
Speaker 4: down amid you know, this very fake looking flocking basically,

968
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:47,200
Speaker 4: and you have scenes of like people scrabbling around and

969
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,120
Speaker 4: it's getting in their fingers, it's getting in their hair,

970
00:51:50,239 --> 00:51:53,840
Speaker 4: and it just doesn't behave anything like snow. There's no slush,

971
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:57,080
Speaker 4: there's no sense of viscerality or cold that it literally

972
00:51:57,200 --> 00:52:00,480
Speaker 4: looks like, I don't know, shredded pom pom or or something.

973
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,680
Speaker 4: And I was pretty bored during the second act, so

974
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:04,240
Speaker 4: I had a lot of time to ruminate on stuff

975
00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:04,480
Speaker 4: like that.

976
00:52:05,880 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 3: With regard to this snow, I do want to take

977
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:12,120
Speaker 3: this opportunity to to take one of the hats from

978
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:17,720
Speaker 3: Tasha's corner and tip it towards Fargo and Roger Deacons,

979
00:52:17,760 --> 00:52:22,400
Speaker 3: because I do think, uh, the film's utilization of the

980
00:52:22,480 --> 00:52:26,160
Speaker 3: setting and the snow is so intentional and so artful.

981
00:52:26,960 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 3: I mean, for one, you do have a film noir,

982
00:52:29,680 --> 00:52:32,960
Speaker 3: at a genre that is associated with darkness and black

983
00:52:33,360 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 3: white it out uh treated you know with this with

984
00:52:36,640 --> 00:52:39,760
Speaker 3: this snowbound setting. But I think you also have moments

985
00:52:39,800 --> 00:52:44,839
Speaker 3: where the where the futility of what is occurring. Uh,

986
00:52:45,239 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 3: you know that the bleakness of this landscape is emphasized

987
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:53,320
Speaker 3: in extraordinarily dramatic and comedic ways. Like you think to

988
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,760
Speaker 3: two moments in particular, the one the scene where Jerry

989
00:52:57,880 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 3: dejectively returns to the parking after after his beating goes

990
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:06,440
Speaker 3: poorly and and as frustrated as we all have been

991
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:09,319
Speaker 3: scraping his car with scraping the ice off his car

992
00:53:09,400 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 3: with a little scraper and uh and then throwing a fit.

993
00:53:13,040 --> 00:53:13,120
Speaker 4: Uh.

994
00:53:13,200 --> 00:53:15,360
Speaker 3: And then you have the scene later on where Carl

995
00:53:15,480 --> 00:53:18,719
Speaker 3: is trying to bury the money in the snow and

996
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:22,800
Speaker 3: and then it looks around to find some way of

997
00:53:23,080 --> 00:53:25,560
Speaker 3: marking of knowing where he kept the money, and he

998
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:27,880
Speaker 3: looks both directions and it looked at the landscape is

999
00:53:27,960 --> 00:53:31,680
Speaker 3: exactly the same. Again, very pointed about about.

1000
00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:34,560
Speaker 6: Where we're at and how does he end up marking

1001
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:35,239
Speaker 6: where it is?

1002
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 5: Right bye bye.

1003
00:53:36,160 --> 00:53:38,920
Speaker 3: Of course, bringing us right back to that scene with

1004
00:53:39,080 --> 00:53:41,560
Speaker 3: Jerry in the parking lot by putting putting the snowscraper

1005
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:42,439
Speaker 3: right in the ground.

1006
00:53:42,520 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 4: Fargo snowscrapers ranked go, I mean, Jerry, Jerry's got like

1007
00:53:48,360 --> 00:53:51,879
Speaker 4: a local snowscraper. It's like several feet long and has

1008
00:53:51,960 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 4: like the brush attachment is something you can really get

1009
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,560
Speaker 4: your elbow behind. One of my favorite things about that

1010
00:53:57,719 --> 00:54:00,319
Speaker 4: sequence is the fact that you know he he has

1011
00:54:00,360 --> 00:54:03,239
Speaker 4: to doggedly sit down to chip a obviously a very

1012
00:54:03,360 --> 00:54:06,279
Speaker 4: thick layer of ice off of his windshield, and then

1013
00:54:06,320 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 4: he throws his temper tantrum like he just he expresses

1014
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:14,080
Speaker 4: like all of his like little yappy dog fury and frustration.

1015
00:54:14,400 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 4: And then he's just got to pick the ice scraper

1016
00:54:15,960 --> 00:54:17,520
Speaker 4: up and go back to it because he's not going

1017
00:54:17,560 --> 00:54:21,400
Speaker 4: anywhere until that ice is gone. And the resignation of

1018
00:54:21,560 --> 00:54:25,440
Speaker 4: having to return to that moment in that banal activity

1019
00:54:25,560 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 4: is just so great.

1020
00:54:26,880 --> 00:54:28,120
Speaker 6: But also that ice looked real.

1021
00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:29,680
Speaker 4: I believed in that ice.

1022
00:54:30,280 --> 00:54:31,360
Speaker 5: When Carl is.

1023
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 4: Halfheartedly burying his ill gotten gains under like half an

1024
00:54:37,480 --> 00:54:40,959
Speaker 4: inch of snow, it behaves like actual snow. I felt

1025
00:54:41,040 --> 00:54:43,560
Speaker 4: sorry for his cold little hands in that moment. I

1026
00:54:43,680 --> 00:54:46,120
Speaker 4: just I really really believed in that snow in that movie.

1027
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:47,320
Speaker 4: Thank you, Roger Deakins.

1028
00:54:48,200 --> 00:54:51,279
Speaker 1: I have a point here where I think normal is

1029
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:54,840
Speaker 1: actually more interesting when you compare it to Fargo, not

1030
00:54:55,120 --> 00:54:57,719
Speaker 1: worse than that. Fargo becomes interesting when you compare it

1031
00:54:57,760 --> 00:55:00,080
Speaker 1: to Fargo. Or to bring everyone bind a CRT. We

1032
00:55:00,320 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: have like a list of connections we create before this,

1033
00:55:03,400 --> 00:55:05,799
Speaker 1: and often Genevieve is doing the line share of them

1034
00:55:05,920 --> 00:55:09,960
Speaker 1: and very well. But here she's at all for what

1035
00:55:10,120 --> 00:55:12,800
Speaker 1: a little bit of money we have. In Fargo, we

1036
00:55:12,840 --> 00:55:15,560
Speaker 1: have characters who are motivated by greed, kind of like

1037
00:55:15,680 --> 00:55:18,600
Speaker 1: your greed to desperation. We don't really know exactly why

1038
00:55:18,760 --> 00:55:21,440
Speaker 1: Jerry wants it, but you can assume it's greed that's

1039
00:55:21,520 --> 00:55:24,800
Speaker 1: led to desperation that's led to more greed. But the

1040
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:30,840
Speaker 1: town of Normal, you could argue, has a legitimate reason

1041
00:55:31,560 --> 00:55:36,200
Speaker 1: for buying into this this scheme, because their way of

1042
00:55:36,239 --> 00:55:38,919
Speaker 1: life will disappear if they don't have money, they'll become

1043
00:55:39,080 --> 00:55:41,680
Speaker 1: just like as as Ulyss these points out, there's lots

1044
00:55:41,680 --> 00:55:44,600
Speaker 1: of small towns where you know, things are just kind

1045
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: of dispersed and they're dying. And this is not Because

1046
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:51,759
Speaker 1: they've struck this deal with the accusa, they're able to

1047
00:55:51,840 --> 00:55:55,800
Speaker 1: keep Normal, you know, into something like it was, and

1048
00:55:55,920 --> 00:55:59,279
Speaker 1: it's something like a real community. So I mean, in

1049
00:55:59,360 --> 00:56:01,839
Speaker 1: a way, it's you could can you argue that they've

1050
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:03,800
Speaker 1: made a moral choice in the way that all the

1051
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:08,480
Speaker 1: all the crime in uh Fargo is purely amoral or immoral.

1052
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 4: I mean, you could make an argument that they're doing

1053
00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:15,600
Speaker 4: what everybody's doing under late stage capitalism, which is compromising

1054
00:56:15,640 --> 00:56:19,920
Speaker 4: their morals to survive and not just survive but thrive.

1055
00:56:20,000 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 4: In this case, like I honestly feel like if they again,

1056
00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 4: the plot makes no sense the inciting incident makes no sense.

1057
00:56:27,520 --> 00:56:32,680
Speaker 4: Hiring an outsider, specifically in law enforcement, for a mere

1058
00:56:32,800 --> 00:56:35,520
Speaker 4: two months makes no sense. They couldn't just you know,

1059
00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:37,920
Speaker 4: coast by and let the existing cops who are in

1060
00:56:38,040 --> 00:56:40,400
Speaker 4: on the deal write the tickets and.

1061
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:44,719
Speaker 6: The guy who clearly want I guess they have to vote.

1062
00:56:44,800 --> 00:56:47,320
Speaker 4: You have to vote, yeah, I mean so yeah, But

1063
00:56:47,760 --> 00:56:50,440
Speaker 4: you know, the mayor could certainly appoint that guy or

1064
00:56:50,520 --> 00:56:54,239
Speaker 4: a better guy, assuming they had one, you know, sheriff

1065
00:56:54,400 --> 00:56:57,359
Speaker 4: pro tem. There's just there's there's no reason to bring

1066
00:56:57,440 --> 00:57:00,279
Speaker 4: in an outsider, except, as a ROGERI wrote, all put

1067
00:57:00,320 --> 00:57:02,839
Speaker 4: it when you explaining the idiot plot. The plot won't

1068
00:57:02,880 --> 00:57:03,440
Speaker 4: work without it.

1069
00:57:03,760 --> 00:57:05,839
Speaker 3: Huh wait, maybe I'm thinking what I'm thinking the Next

1070
00:57:05,880 --> 00:57:07,759
Speaker 3: Picture Show? We should what's our what's our own version

1071
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:10,480
Speaker 3: of late capitalism? Should we should we get a meme

1072
00:57:10,600 --> 00:57:12,880
Speaker 3: coin going? Did that something happening?

1073
00:57:14,400 --> 00:57:17,680
Speaker 4: I mean, like literally ask the people listening to this

1074
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:18,800
Speaker 4: to send us money.

1075
00:57:18,760 --> 00:57:21,920
Speaker 6: Like like every week it's Patreon dot com slash Next

1076
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 6: Picture Show.

1077
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,480
Speaker 4: But I mean in the end, like obviously this is

1078
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:31,720
Speaker 4: ill gotten money from criminal activities. Uh, presumably very violent

1079
00:57:31,800 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 4: and oppressive criminal activities. But apart from that, like the

1080
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,439
Speaker 4: people in normal aren't. Actually, this is going to sound

1081
00:57:40,520 --> 00:57:43,720
Speaker 4: like I'm excusing profiting from crime as long as you

1082
00:57:43,800 --> 00:57:47,720
Speaker 4: aren't doing crime, and I'm not. I'm just saying, within

1083
00:57:47,920 --> 00:57:51,760
Speaker 4: the world of this film, they're pretty low down on

1084
00:57:51,920 --> 00:57:56,200
Speaker 4: the the being immoral stakes until they, you know, start

1085
00:57:56,720 --> 00:58:00,120
Speaker 4: murdering people, and the incompetence that they bring to it

1086
00:58:00,680 --> 00:58:02,680
Speaker 4: suggests that they have not had to do it before,

1087
00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,760
Speaker 4: So I don't know, it just kind of seems like

1088
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:08,720
Speaker 4: it was not necessary to upset this particular apple.

1089
00:58:08,480 --> 00:58:11,240
Speaker 1: Cart RuSHA aren't we all profiting from crime even if

1090
00:58:11,280 --> 00:58:12,480
Speaker 1: we're doing crime?

1091
00:58:12,840 --> 00:58:13,040
Speaker 6: Man?

1092
00:58:14,440 --> 00:58:17,240
Speaker 4: Yeah, and most of us are not getting a perfectly

1093
00:58:17,360 --> 00:58:21,560
Speaker 4: nice and still somehow functional and present yarn store to

1094
00:58:22,120 --> 00:58:22,960
Speaker 4: compensate for it.

1095
00:58:24,160 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 6: As with sort of the heavily armed police department kind

1096
00:58:28,520 --> 00:58:32,280
Speaker 6: of fainting toward some sort of commentary or satire that

1097
00:58:32,520 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 6: is then completely deflated once it survealed that it's the yakuza. Similarly,

1098
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:43,440
Speaker 6: the idea of this town's desperation forcing them into this

1099
00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 6: situation and late stage capitalism and all that, again sort

1100
00:58:46,720 --> 00:58:50,560
Speaker 6: of gesturing toward an interesting idea that is again completely

1101
00:58:50,640 --> 00:58:54,040
Speaker 6: deflated by it's the yakuza, Like, you know, like if

1102
00:58:54,120 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 6: this had been some all powerful mega corporation that was

1103
00:58:58,120 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 6: pulling the strings, you know, I could see that idea

1104
00:59:02,800 --> 00:59:05,880
Speaker 6: having a little more meat on the bone. But it

1105
00:59:06,360 --> 00:59:09,960
Speaker 6: just goes in this like full genre tilt, you know

1106
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,400
Speaker 6: that I think undermines any sort of chance it might

1107
00:59:14,520 --> 00:59:19,200
Speaker 6: have at making a statement about you know, it's set up,

1108
00:59:20,440 --> 00:59:21,960
Speaker 6: or these elements of it set up.

1109
00:59:22,360 --> 00:59:24,920
Speaker 4: I think it's meant to be comic. I think that

1110
00:59:25,360 --> 00:59:29,040
Speaker 4: just including the akaza in the first place is meant

1111
00:59:29,120 --> 00:59:32,520
Speaker 4: to be kind of like, what could be more outsidery

1112
00:59:32,840 --> 00:59:37,520
Speaker 4: and wacky and alien to this little Minnesota community than

1113
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:41,840
Speaker 4: these like far off foreign crime guys with their weird

1114
00:59:41,920 --> 00:59:45,080
Speaker 4: codes of honor which we start the movie with, and

1115
00:59:45,160 --> 00:59:48,240
Speaker 4: their inability to speak English ho ho ho. You know

1116
00:59:49,560 --> 00:59:51,280
Speaker 4: that the whole movie just kind of feels like it's

1117
00:59:51,320 --> 00:59:56,200
Speaker 4: coming again from a very eighties place of understanding of

1118
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:01,880
Speaker 4: other cultures as something other than like a wacky comedy

1119
01:00:02,040 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 4: about how they're not like us. Honestly, all that's missing

1120
01:00:05,320 --> 01:00:07,960
Speaker 4: is for them to all pull out katanas for the

1121
01:00:08,040 --> 01:00:10,840
Speaker 4: final fight. And I'm really kind of surprised they didn't

1122
01:00:10,880 --> 01:00:11,520
Speaker 4: go in that direction.

1123
01:00:11,960 --> 01:00:14,600
Speaker 1: Better or worse movie if they did, I.

1124
01:00:14,640 --> 01:00:18,640
Speaker 4: Mean, less by the book's gunplay that we've already seen

1125
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:21,400
Speaker 4: earlier in the film. Much much harder to run a

1126
01:00:21,480 --> 01:00:24,840
Speaker 4: katana through like three different booths in a diner and

1127
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:26,200
Speaker 4: kill three people.

1128
01:00:26,960 --> 01:00:31,240
Speaker 1: All right, So I think in conclusion Fargo's influences it

1129
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:34,800
Speaker 1: can be felt in many places, including the film Normal,

1130
01:00:35,120 --> 01:00:38,880
Speaker 1: and we can say you could do a lot worse

1131
01:00:38,880 --> 01:00:42,160
Speaker 1: than Normal, But Farmers probably the better of the two films.

1132
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:46,360
Speaker 1: You can watch it probably probably probably you know, right

1133
01:00:46,400 --> 01:00:50,240
Speaker 1: into tobaccos up or object to our opinion on this issue.

1134
01:00:50,440 --> 01:00:52,120
Speaker 4: Or just tell me what kind of hat you want

1135
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,320
Speaker 4: to put on my Twitter too.

1136
01:00:54,120 --> 01:00:57,439
Speaker 1: Fargo is currently streaming on HBO, Max and Prime Video,

1137
01:00:57,600 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: addition to being rentable from the usual places and being

1138
01:01:00,560 --> 01:01:04,360
Speaker 1: available on four K, Blu ray and DVD, although they

1139
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:06,560
Speaker 1: don't package it with the fun snow globe that used

1140
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,800
Speaker 1: to package it with Normal is now playing loudly in theaters.

1141
01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:24,640
Speaker 1: We'll be right back with your Next Picture Show. Finally,

1142
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,040
Speaker 1: it's kind of recommended film or fimilated item that complements

1143
01:01:28,120 --> 01:01:30,280
Speaker 1: this set of episodes. We call it your Next Picture

1144
01:01:30,320 --> 01:01:32,240
Speaker 1: Show in the hopes it will put some interesting choices

1145
01:01:32,360 --> 01:01:35,280
Speaker 1: on your radar. I mean, I kind of want to

1146
01:01:35,320 --> 01:01:37,360
Speaker 1: talk about We didn't talk about it when you talked

1147
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:40,000
Speaker 1: about Fargo the film. We should talk about Fargo the

1148
01:01:40,080 --> 01:01:43,480
Speaker 1: TV series, which I find a comp very compelling show.

1149
01:01:43,720 --> 01:01:46,480
Speaker 1: Most seasons, some seasons are better than others. I think

1150
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,600
Speaker 1: are kind of a you know, at the heart of it,

1151
01:01:49,200 --> 01:01:54,080
Speaker 1: it's always going to be derivative, right, Noah Holly created

1152
01:01:54,120 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 1: show that isn't so much a continuation of Fargo or

1153
01:01:58,040 --> 01:02:02,440
Speaker 1: restaging of Fargo as sort of a each season's kind

1154
01:02:02,480 --> 01:02:07,400
Speaker 1: of like broadly riffing on Cohen Brothers inspired themes uh

1155
01:02:08,000 --> 01:02:12,080
Speaker 1: from Fargo, but also other Cohen projects. But I don't know.

1156
01:02:12,200 --> 01:02:14,480
Speaker 1: I I do like it. You know, we can rank

1157
01:02:14,560 --> 01:02:17,040
Speaker 1: the seasons, and I think someone would like, as I said,

1158
01:02:17,040 --> 01:02:19,840
Speaker 1: would rank higher than others. Well to everyone else's impressions

1159
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:23,920
Speaker 1: of Fargo, I think we've all We've Jenner, even Scott

1160
01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:25,920
Speaker 1: and I at least I've all. I've all watched it.

1161
01:02:26,560 --> 01:02:26,760
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1162
01:02:26,800 --> 01:02:30,880
Speaker 5: I recapped every season I think for New York Times, UH.

1163
01:02:31,040 --> 01:02:33,760
Speaker 6: And Keith you recapped several for last two years.

1164
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:35,240
Speaker 1: For Vulture, and I'll do the next one if they

1165
01:02:35,280 --> 01:02:37,040
Speaker 1: ever make it too, if you'll have me.

1166
01:02:37,160 --> 01:02:38,760
Speaker 5: I like the fifth one more than the.

1167
01:02:38,920 --> 01:02:41,800
Speaker 6: Four yeah, I was gonna say the most recent season

1168
01:02:42,080 --> 01:02:46,000
Speaker 6: is was to my mind the strongest since I think

1169
01:02:46,120 --> 01:02:49,880
Speaker 6: the second that was the one with with Kristen Kristen Dunston, Justin,

1170
01:02:50,040 --> 01:02:51,200
Speaker 6: Jesse Plemons.

1171
01:02:50,840 --> 01:02:54,880
Speaker 3: Right correct, and Gene Smart yeaheah, I think that's I

1172
01:02:54,920 --> 01:02:57,600
Speaker 3: think the second is still the strongest of the of.

1173
01:02:57,680 --> 01:03:00,000
Speaker 1: The first one's good. I don't think I've seen Alice

1174
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:01,520
Speaker 1: and told me before and that kind of introduced me

1175
01:03:01,560 --> 01:03:04,840
Speaker 1: to her. She's excellent. Yeah, it's sort of a Marge surrogate,

1176
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:06,080
Speaker 1: but not quite.

1177
01:03:06,240 --> 01:03:09,120
Speaker 3: I mean it's the referentiality of the show can be

1178
01:03:09,200 --> 01:03:12,600
Speaker 3: a little bit irksome and glib and shallow, I think

1179
01:03:12,720 --> 01:03:16,440
Speaker 3: is my issue with the Fargo project overall, and feels

1180
01:03:16,440 --> 01:03:19,320
Speaker 3: a little bit out of step. And I don't know,

1181
01:03:20,360 --> 01:03:22,760
Speaker 3: there are elements of the show that are very frustratingly,

1182
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,440
Speaker 3: you know, like I said, sort of shallow, but it's

1183
01:03:25,440 --> 01:03:28,520
Speaker 3: always compelling as an actors showcase and as a stylistic showcase.

1184
01:03:28,560 --> 01:03:33,360
Speaker 3: And when it's really hitting, like in the second season

1185
01:03:33,520 --> 01:03:35,880
Speaker 3: or the first and fifth I guess would be the ones.

1186
01:03:36,080 --> 01:03:38,480
Speaker 3: You know, it's quite a compelling piece of like you know,

1187
01:03:39,200 --> 01:03:43,960
Speaker 3: short form or like serial storytelling. It it works pretty well.

1188
01:03:44,160 --> 01:03:46,560
Speaker 6: Yeah, yeah, I mean it may just be Recncy biased,

1189
01:03:46,640 --> 01:03:51,320
Speaker 6: but I do think season five feels the most settled

1190
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:55,160
Speaker 6: into that referentiality, And there's a lot of parts of

1191
01:03:55,240 --> 01:03:57,920
Speaker 6: it that feel like have a little bit more direct

1192
01:03:58,000 --> 01:04:01,480
Speaker 6: of a connection to the film Fargo than than other seasons,

1193
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:05,240
Speaker 6: which all kind of like play in this comedic crime space,

1194
01:04:05,920 --> 01:04:10,440
Speaker 6: you know, Midwest based, uh, and you know there are

1195
01:04:10,680 --> 01:04:15,240
Speaker 6: familiar plot elements, but Fargo five specifically remembery like the

1196
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:19,200
Speaker 6: home invasion sequence, which feels like a very direct directly

1197
01:04:19,320 --> 01:04:24,240
Speaker 6: pointing to the film while also doing something different with it,

1198
01:04:25,080 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 6: involving Jeno Temple's character, and just John Hamm's being the

1199
01:04:31,200 --> 01:04:34,440
Speaker 6: sheriff figure being such an inverse of Marge in so

1200
01:04:34,600 --> 01:04:35,200
Speaker 6: many ways.

1201
01:04:36,040 --> 01:04:39,200
Speaker 3: Also also No Country for Old Men, I mean yeah, yeah,

1202
01:04:39,440 --> 01:04:41,680
Speaker 3: I mean there's it's so much in the Cohen verse

1203
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,560
Speaker 3: at a certain point. Yeah, there's an entire season that's

1204
01:04:44,640 --> 01:04:48,320
Speaker 3: basically it's much more that felt more Miller's crossing than than.

1205
01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:51,280
Speaker 1: Far season four. Yeah, I can stump for season four though.

1206
01:04:51,280 --> 01:04:53,840
Speaker 1: It's it's got some really good stuff and Jesse Buckley

1207
01:04:54,360 --> 01:04:58,200
Speaker 1: is is terrific in it. Yeah, I mean, no of

1208
01:04:58,280 --> 01:05:00,280
Speaker 1: the strongest I don't think it's a total rite off there.

1209
01:05:00,440 --> 01:05:03,600
Speaker 6: Season five also has ol Munch, who again is maybe

1210
01:05:04,320 --> 01:05:08,480
Speaker 6: more of a No Country for old men, uh you know, analog,

1211
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:12,800
Speaker 6: but also just a really great character. I thought, like

1212
01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:16,280
Speaker 6: I loved ol Munch and played by Sam Sprule in

1213
01:05:16,800 --> 01:05:19,320
Speaker 6: Fargo five, so I've always.

1214
01:05:19,040 --> 01:05:24,080
Speaker 1: Got reliably great character names too, like Danish graves. Danish graves.

1215
01:05:24,320 --> 01:05:27,080
Speaker 1: How about that? All right? Well? So so yes, if

1216
01:05:27,360 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 1: if you're curious about Fargo the TV series, I would

1217
01:05:29,960 --> 01:05:33,919
Speaker 1: recommend probably maybe start trying there. Each season is self contained.

1218
01:05:33,800 --> 01:05:35,800
Speaker 6: Anology season, so they also.

1219
01:05:35,640 --> 01:05:39,560
Speaker 1: Season two maybe and and go from there.

1220
01:05:40,000 --> 01:05:43,840
Speaker 5: I'd say, maybe what's what's good, what's what's got job?

1221
01:05:44,400 --> 01:05:47,120
Speaker 1: That's true? If you just want to sample the strongest one, though,

1222
01:05:47,160 --> 01:05:48,520
Speaker 1: maybe do that two is.

1223
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:50,560
Speaker 5: I think two is still the best. That's the season

1224
01:05:50,640 --> 01:05:51,600
Speaker 5: I like the most.

1225
01:05:56,920 --> 01:05:59,360
Speaker 1: That's in the next picture show, Tasha, can you talk

1226
01:05:59,360 --> 01:05:59,920
Speaker 1: about our next?

1227
01:06:00,680 --> 01:06:03,600
Speaker 4: Kyle Balder's new murder mystery, The Sheep Detectives, based on

1228
01:06:03,680 --> 01:06:06,840
Speaker 4: a German novel called Three Bags Full, presents Hugh Jackman

1229
01:06:06,880 --> 01:06:09,280
Speaker 4: as a kind shepherd living on a rural farm next

1230
01:06:09,320 --> 01:06:12,040
Speaker 4: to a quaint village full of colorful characters, all of

1231
01:06:12,080 --> 01:06:15,080
Speaker 4: whom becomes suspects. When he's murdered, it falls to his

1232
01:06:15,200 --> 01:06:18,720
Speaker 4: beloved sheep, a collection of CG constructs voiced by familiar

1233
01:06:18,800 --> 01:06:22,000
Speaker 4: celebrities to solve his murder. It's a mystery comedy with

1234
01:06:22,080 --> 01:06:25,440
Speaker 4: a mighty odd tone and an equally odd execution that

1235
01:06:25,600 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 4: might just think of George Miller's Babe Paying the City,

1236
01:06:28,440 --> 01:06:32,000
Speaker 4: the weirdly dark sequel to the feel good family movie Babe. Also,

1237
01:06:32,120 --> 01:06:35,360
Speaker 4: both films feature adorable animals trying to navigate the human world,

1238
01:06:35,480 --> 01:06:38,120
Speaker 4: which doesn't understand them and generally discounts them.

1239
01:06:38,280 --> 01:06:41,160
Speaker 1: For now, we're walking your feedback on Fargo, Normal and

1240
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:43,560
Speaker 1: anything else I'm related you like to talk about, Email

1241
01:06:43,640 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 1: us at comments at Next Picture Show dot Net or

1242
01:06:45,840 --> 01:06:48,400
Speaker 1: leave us a voicemail at seven seven three two three

1243
01:06:48,520 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: four nine seven three zero before we close up this

1244
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,920
Speaker 1: week's episode. Where can you find everyone these days? Genevieve,

1245
01:06:54,000 --> 01:06:54,560
Speaker 1: Let's start with you.

1246
01:06:55,440 --> 01:06:58,320
Speaker 6: You can find my work mainly behind the scenes as

1247
01:06:58,400 --> 01:07:02,600
Speaker 6: a TV editor at Vulture. I'm parking on various social

1248
01:07:02,720 --> 01:07:06,640
Speaker 6: media platforms, mainly Blue Sky and Instagram at Geneviev Kaski.

1249
01:07:07,080 --> 01:07:10,000
Speaker 6: And you know it's warming up the gardens in blooms

1250
01:07:10,000 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 6: so I might start posting some flower pictures again soon.

1251
01:07:12,800 --> 01:07:16,000
Speaker 6: So now's the time to follow me on Instagram, Guys,

1252
01:07:16,560 --> 01:07:17,160
Speaker 6: lots of herbs.

1253
01:07:17,200 --> 01:07:20,160
Speaker 4: You got some herbs going, Maybe some dogs, dogs among

1254
01:07:20,240 --> 01:07:20,640
Speaker 4: the flowers?

1255
01:07:20,720 --> 01:07:26,400
Speaker 6: Oh oh yeah, oh definitely, definitely all of that and more. Tasha, Tasha,

1256
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:26,880
Speaker 6: how about you?

1257
01:07:27,720 --> 01:07:30,440
Speaker 4: I am Tasha Robinson on Blue Sky. That's really the

1258
01:07:30,520 --> 01:07:34,000
Speaker 4: only place I'm remotely active on social I do have

1259
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,000
Speaker 4: an Instagram where I plan to not post any pictures

1260
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:40,240
Speaker 4: of dogs or flowers or Genevieva anytime soon.

1261
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:43,640
Speaker 6: I am about my hats. We put a picture of

1262
01:07:43,680 --> 01:07:45,160
Speaker 6: the hats I threw throw you over there.

1263
01:07:45,280 --> 01:07:48,200
Speaker 4: I am really If I had an actual corner full

1264
01:07:48,240 --> 01:07:51,520
Speaker 4: of literal hats, that would be my entire Instagram. It's

1265
01:07:51,640 --> 01:07:55,040
Speaker 4: just here's me rearranging the hats in entertaining ways. Here's

1266
01:07:55,120 --> 01:07:59,120
Speaker 4: me putting the hats on different people and creatures around

1267
01:07:59,120 --> 01:08:03,000
Speaker 4: my house. Me hats is what I'm telling you. Everybody

1268
01:08:03,000 --> 01:08:06,720
Speaker 4: who's listening, stop unsubscribed from our Patreon, stop sending his money,

1269
01:08:06,880 --> 01:08:15,560
Speaker 4: start sending me specifically hats. My address is. I think

1270
01:08:15,600 --> 01:08:17,240
Speaker 4: I haven't had a little internet glitch there.

1271
01:08:17,439 --> 01:08:17,799
Speaker 2: Genevieve.

1272
01:08:17,800 --> 01:08:18,800
Speaker 6: You can fix that in post.

1273
01:08:19,240 --> 01:08:22,080
Speaker 4: I'm the entertainment editor over at Polygon dot com, where

1274
01:08:22,160 --> 01:08:24,880
Speaker 4: you can find my writing Keith, what about you?

1275
01:08:25,400 --> 01:08:28,800
Speaker 1: Various social media not doing doing a little bit kfif

1276
01:08:28,840 --> 01:08:31,559
Speaker 1: three thousand, mostly on Blue Sky. I am a freelance writer.

1277
01:08:31,880 --> 01:08:35,120
Speaker 1: You can find my writing sometimes places like Vulture, sometimes

1278
01:08:35,479 --> 01:08:38,760
Speaker 1: places like GQ once in a while, some you know,

1279
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,760
Speaker 1: TV Guide fairly frequently, but mostly you can find me

1280
01:08:41,840 --> 01:08:44,519
Speaker 1: at the Reveal that's Thereveal dot Film, which is the

1281
01:08:44,720 --> 01:08:48,280
Speaker 1: film newsletter that I co write with our own Scott Tobias.

1282
01:08:48,800 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: You can actually are for paid subscribers. You can listen

1283
01:08:51,240 --> 01:08:54,040
Speaker 1: to us talk about Fargo as an audio commentary for

1284
01:08:54,120 --> 01:08:56,400
Speaker 1: the future length of the film. And we're doing one

1285
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:58,840
Speaker 1: on Normal too, write Scott, No, we're not doing one

1286
01:08:58,880 --> 01:08:59,240
Speaker 1: on Normal.

1287
01:09:02,040 --> 01:09:04,519
Speaker 4: Would it just be Scott snoring for the first.

1288
01:09:06,120 --> 01:09:06,600
Speaker 1: How about you?

1289
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:09,439
Speaker 3: Yeah, So you can find us, of course at the

1290
01:09:09,560 --> 01:09:15,240
Speaker 3: Reveal dot Film. We're recording another commentary tomorrow on Minority

1291
01:09:15,560 --> 01:09:16,799
Speaker 3: Our readers chose.

1292
01:09:16,600 --> 01:09:17,120
Speaker 1: It for us.

1293
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:21,080
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know, we're trying out democracy for the first time,

1294
01:09:21,439 --> 01:09:24,720
Speaker 3: and they ended up. I love Minority Report, but they

1295
01:09:24,800 --> 01:09:27,679
Speaker 3: chose the film of the four that I at least

1296
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:30,160
Speaker 3: wanted to During track on because it's.

1297
01:09:30,080 --> 01:09:32,600
Speaker 5: A very long movie. But we we'll see how it

1298
01:09:32,720 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 5: turns out.

1299
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:36,559
Speaker 3: Oh yeah, with it crunching, you'll want to hear nice

1300
01:09:36,600 --> 01:09:38,679
Speaker 3: crunch during your commentary track.

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01:09:39,040 --> 01:09:41,599
Speaker 5: Uh so you find us find us on there.

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Speaker 3: You can find me also The Vulture, New York Times,

1303
01:09:45,120 --> 01:09:48,400
Speaker 3: The Guardian, other fine publications, and you can find me

1304
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:51,200
Speaker 3: on on Blue Sky at Scott Tobias.

1305
01:09:51,439 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: You can stay updated on the Next Picture Show at

1306
01:09:53,400 --> 01:09:55,880
Speaker 1: Next Picture Show dot Net and on Blue Sky at

1307
01:09:56,080 --> 01:09:58,560
Speaker 1: the Next Picture Show. You can get bonus content and

1308
01:09:58,640 --> 01:10:02,320
Speaker 1: open discussion at Patreon slash Next Picture Show. And as always,

1309
01:10:02,360 --> 01:10:05,240
Speaker 1: we appreciate your reading and reviews on Apple podcast or

1310
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:08,560
Speaker 1: Spotify or wherever you listen to the show. Thanks to

1311
01:10:08,720 --> 01:10:11,479
Speaker 1: Dan the Bake Jakes for his assistance producing this podcast.

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Speaker 1: The Next Picture Show is proud to be part of

1313
01:10:13,439 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 1: the Film Spotting family of podcasts. Please tune in next time.

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Speaker 2: That was a good movie. Yeah seen here before once