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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you should Know, a production of five

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Speaker 1: Heart Radios How Stuff Works. Hey, and welcome to the podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Josh Clark and there's Charles w Chuck Bryan over there,

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Speaker 1: and uh, this is stuff you should know. Just the

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Speaker 1: two of us, Me and Chuck are gonna make it

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Speaker 1: if we try, just the two of us, he and I. Man, Now,

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Speaker 1: I wish we were doing a show on Bill Withers.

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Speaker 1: Is that a Bill Withers song? What I mean? I

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Speaker 1: I guess I can hear his voice now that you

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Speaker 1: say that, But that's not the song I think of

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Speaker 1: when I think Bill Withers. You know, what do you

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Speaker 1: think on? Lean On Me? No? The theme song to Annie? Oh? Sure,

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Speaker 1: song will come out tomorrow. Yeah, that's the one, right,

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Speaker 1: good song. I love that Antie soundtrack. It's so good man. Hey,

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Speaker 1: have I mentioned in Nola Holmes? Uh? You have? Well

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Speaker 1: yet I haven't seen it yet, So good dude. Did

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Speaker 1: you see the Challenger documentary? I have not seen that

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Speaker 1: and it's hard to watch. Yeah. I've been watching horror

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Speaker 1: movies because this October is kind of the month where

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Speaker 1: I get it pass to do that on my own

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Speaker 1: October more like sho October. You know what I mean, right?

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Speaker 1: I finally watched the Rob Zombie movie. Never seen any

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Speaker 1: of those before. I started at the beginning and did

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Speaker 1: House of a Thousand Corpses. What do you think? It

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Speaker 1: was good? It was just exactly what I thought it

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Speaker 1: would be, which is sort of a Texas Chainsaw masaker

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Speaker 1: like story. But you could you could feel his enthusiasm

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Speaker 1: for filmmaking. I liked it for sure. Um, when's the

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Speaker 1: last time you saw the original Texas Chainsaw Massacre? I

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Speaker 1: saw it last year for the very first time. Believe

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Speaker 1: it or not. Oh my, I think we talked about that. Fine.

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Speaker 1: Scared the pants off of me. And it's so good

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Speaker 1: if it's weird, because it keeps getting better. I remember

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Speaker 1: being a teenager and the first time I saw and

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Speaker 1: I was like, why what is this? And then the

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Speaker 1: next time I thought, I was like, oh, this is

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Speaker 1: actually pretty good, and then the last time I saw it,

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Speaker 1: I was like, I just want to sit around and

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Speaker 1: watch this all the time. Stone cold Classic. So, speaking

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Speaker 1: of stone cold classics, I got a stone Cold Classic,

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Speaker 1: which a what true crime question case for you, Chuck?

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Speaker 1: What's the question? The question is? This? Was Petty Hurst

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Speaker 1: a brainwashed hostage who carried out violent crimes for fear

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Speaker 1: of her life. Or was she a spoiled rich kid

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Speaker 1: who was basically who turned thrilled seeker to the nth degree.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I don't know. I mean part of

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Speaker 1: me thinks that she did flip and was radicalized. But

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Speaker 1: I don't know, man. I mean, I don't think it's

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Speaker 1: super clear either way. No, and I I'm in the

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Speaker 1: same boat as you. I feel like I lean a

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Speaker 1: little more towards radicalized. And there's a couple of things

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Speaker 1: that it's just like I can't get past that. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I think I know one of them. But I think

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Speaker 1: I think that she became radicalized initially out of fear

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Speaker 1: for her life. Um. And it's really hard to discount

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Speaker 1: what happened to her initially that got her absolutely And

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Speaker 1: I think Jimmy Carter has the most sensible take on

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Speaker 1: the whole thing. So we'll get into all this For

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Speaker 1: those of you who don't know what we're talking about.

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Speaker 1: We're talking about Patty Hurst. And Patty Hurst was the

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Speaker 1: granddaughter of William Randolph Hurst, whose name might sound familiar. Um,

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Speaker 1: he was the publishing magnate I think a radio guy

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Speaker 1: too write I think it was yeah radio, but you know,

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Speaker 1: very much well known for his newspaper, his string of newspapers,

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Speaker 1: and um, he was a bit of a politico, a kingmaker,

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Speaker 1: incredibly mind bogglingly wealthy. He was the model for Citizen Kane,

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Speaker 1: I believe right. Um. And he had basically established this

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Speaker 1: media empire um in the first half of the twentieth century.

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Speaker 1: And he had a son. He had a son named

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Speaker 1: Randy Hurst, no joke, Randall Hurst, not William Randolph her sorry,

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Speaker 1: Randolph Hurst. And they called him Randy. And Randy had

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Speaker 1: a daughter. He was brought up like a very wealthy guy.

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Speaker 1: But um, he was also brought up to take over

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Speaker 1: the family business. And he had by nineteen fifty four,

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Speaker 1: I think when a daughter arrived to Randy and his wife, UM, Catherine,

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Speaker 1: and they named their kid Patty or Patricia Hurst. That's right,

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Speaker 1: Patricia Campbell. And she was what you would think, she

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Speaker 1: was born into an heiress. She was born a rich kid. Uh.

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Speaker 1: It's funny to think about, like in today's terms, UM,

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Speaker 1: plenty of people to pick from, but like if you

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Speaker 1: could imagine Paris Hilton, uh robbing a bank with a

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Speaker 1: machine gun, right, that's that's kind of a good analog

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Speaker 1: to who Patricia Hurst was back then. Yeah, that's that's

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Speaker 1: actually really good. Although you you you could say she's

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Speaker 1: quite quite a bit more low key, or she was

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Speaker 1: at the time. Like by the time she was nineteen,

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Speaker 1: she was living in San Francisco or the Bay Area,

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Speaker 1: I should say, attending you see, Berkeley, So I guess

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Speaker 1: she was living in Berkeley, because that's not necessarily that

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Speaker 1: she wasn't exactly Paris Hilton, if if we're being honest,

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Speaker 1: But she was just like but as far as the

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Speaker 1: famous heiress in the United States, yeah, so yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but also living this quiet life. She was nineteen, she

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Speaker 1: was engaged to a guy named Stephen weed Um who

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Speaker 1: was like a Catholic high school teacher. I think he

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Speaker 1: was twenty six or something and um studying art history

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Speaker 1: and going to school and just kind of living life,

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Speaker 1: you know. But yeah, she really she was right, especially

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Speaker 1: in Berkeley in the stee so um she she but

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Speaker 1: she was like mind boggling wealth and she was going

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Speaker 1: to inherit all this and she was famous for being

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Speaker 1: an heiress, right, and so just a few days before

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Speaker 1: her twentieth birthday, on February fourth, I think right, mm hm,

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Speaker 1: there was a knock on her door, like nine pm.

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Speaker 1: It was a Monday night, and I actually I don't

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Speaker 1: even know if they knocked or else, if they just

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Speaker 1: came bursting in, but UM three people who turned out

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Speaker 1: to be members of what very few people had heard

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Speaker 1: of at the time, but who had become very famous,

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Speaker 1: the Symbionese Liberation Army. UM burst through their door, beat

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Speaker 1: up Stephen Weed, Catholic High School UH teacher, and UM

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Speaker 1: dragged Patty Hurst out of her apartment to their car,

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Speaker 1: where they shot off a few shots and drove off

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Speaker 1: into the night with Patty Hurst kidnapped as hostage. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they threw in the trunk bound and she was gone.

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Speaker 1: And as far as the s l A goes, like

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Speaker 1: you said, they were not very well known at the time.

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Speaker 1: They were pretty new UM in an era of sort

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Speaker 1: of I'm not gonna say they were just uh American

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Speaker 1: terrorist organizations all over the place of the United States.

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Speaker 1: But it was a time in our country where there

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Speaker 1: were a lot of bombings, a lot. And yeah, I

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Speaker 1: said about a thousand a Year's a lot. Yeah, that's

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Speaker 1: a lot of compared to now where we don't have

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Speaker 1: a lot of bombings. Uh. And we should thank Julia

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Speaker 1: Layton for helping us put this together. But um, no

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Speaker 1: one had heard of them much because, like I said,

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Speaker 1: they were new. They formed a couple of months before

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Speaker 1: her abduction. And it wasn't like there were you know,

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Speaker 1: a hundred of these people. They were you know, it

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Speaker 1: kind of varied from you know, depending on like I

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Speaker 1: guess who had the good drugs at the time, but

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Speaker 1: there were never more than a dozen. Um, it seems

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Speaker 1: like it varied between like seven and twelve at a time.

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Speaker 1: And there their ideology was basically us like anti capitalist.

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Speaker 1: Um we that's kind of just it. It wasn't super inspiring.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't well thought out. It was just, hey, we

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Speaker 1: hate we hate the rich. It was pretty ho hume.

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Speaker 1: Um And and yeah, not very inspiring. And I think

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Speaker 1: that's why they never had that many members. But they

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Speaker 1: were they were extremely militant. They were very paranoid, and

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Speaker 1: they were willing to carry out violence. Like they didn't

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Speaker 1: have many qualms with violence. They used to practice with

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Speaker 1: weapons and guns and um, they had a lot of guns,

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Speaker 1: a lot of ammunition. They knew how to make bombs.

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Speaker 1: They weren't messing around in that sense. They were just

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Speaker 1: kind of dullards when it came to political ideology. They

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Speaker 1: were just following in everybody else's wake. But um, interestingly enough,

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Speaker 1: chuck the whole. The whole. Simbionese Liberation Armies started out

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Speaker 1: of a prison tutoring program. We're a bunch of white

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Speaker 1: students from Berkeley went and tutored inmates on things like

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Speaker 1: black history and Paul political science, things like that. Um.

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Speaker 1: And that's where the s l A originally grew from.

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Speaker 1: When one of those inmates, a guy named Donald de Freeze,

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Speaker 1: escaped from prison and showed up in San Francisco and said,

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Speaker 1: let's get this thing started. Yeah, he was. They all

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Speaker 1: adopted different names when they joined the s l A.

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Speaker 1: His name was General Field Marshal sinc Uh. Is it

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Speaker 1: matu matum? And it might be chinque oh really? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Because they were super into Shakavara and the Cuban Revolution.

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Speaker 1: So anything that looks even remotely Spanish is probably pronounced

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Speaker 1: like that. Okay, Well, I don't know Spanish, so I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna pronounce it like Spike Lee style. I think that's

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Speaker 1: his sister's name, is it? So? Yeah, sinkly. I didn't

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Speaker 1: know that ce I n q u E one of

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Speaker 1: his sisters. I got great. So, um, yeah, he was

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Speaker 1: in prison for uh, well he did a bunch of stuff.

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Speaker 1: He he was well known to possess homemade bombs. He

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Speaker 1: was arrested for kidnapping, um, possession of explosives. He was

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Speaker 1: arrested for robbing a bank. And that's finally in nine

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Speaker 1: what finally got him into prison. But and this pops

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Speaker 1: up sort of throughout the story, but it was it

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Speaker 1: was way easier to get away with crime back then,

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Speaker 1: like to escape from prison and then just say, like

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Speaker 1: I like go live in San Francisco and start a

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Speaker 1: radical organization and and kind of not get caught. Uh,

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Speaker 1: And that's what he did. And he ended up engineering

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Speaker 1: the murder of a man named Marcus Foster. He was

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Speaker 1: superintendent of the Oakland School System. And uh, he didn't

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Speaker 1: actually carry out the murder, but to s l A

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Speaker 1: members shot him and one one of their signature moves

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Speaker 1: that would turn out to be a cyanide tipped bullets,

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Speaker 1: which I didn't look into that. I don't even know

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Speaker 1: if that's a thing. I know, if that helps you

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Speaker 1: kill somebody, I think it's overkill, is what like literal

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Speaker 1: overkill or maybe just they thought it sounded intimidating or

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Speaker 1: something to put in letters. They definitely did that, but

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Speaker 1: they shot Foster to draw attention to UM something they saw,

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Speaker 1: which was anti black schooling policies. Uh, Foster was a

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Speaker 1: black man. One of the cruel irony is there. Well,

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Speaker 1: not only that, he was also a respected black community organizer.

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Speaker 1: And when they killed them, everybody else on the left

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Speaker 1: and Berkeley was like, what are you doing? Are you

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Speaker 1: guys morons? And l A was like, oh, yeah, they

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Speaker 1: were kind of morons. Yeah, yes, they were a little

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Speaker 1: bit morons as far as domestic terrorist groups go. UM.

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Speaker 1: So when they the shooters were actually in prison when

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Speaker 1: they got Patty Hurst, and the first thought from the

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Speaker 1: cops and the Feds was, here's what's gonna happen is

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Speaker 1: they've kidnapped this rich girl and they're gonna try to exchange, um,

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Speaker 1: giving her back to get these two guys out of prison.

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Speaker 1: But they're like, no, not exactly, We're actually gonna keep her. No.

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Speaker 1: But even before they they had a chance to ask,

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Speaker 1: and I guess they never did bring it up. Ronald Reagan,

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Speaker 1: who was governor at the time, said no, we're not

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Speaker 1: doing that. But they didn't go that way. Instead they said, UM,

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Speaker 1: hey Willie Hurst, UM, no sorry, Randy Hurst. Willie Randy

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Speaker 1: was dead by this time. Randy Hurst, UM, you're super rich.

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Speaker 1: We want you to take some of those riches and

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Speaker 1: we want you to feed the poor with it. That

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Speaker 1: was their first demand. UM. And they they came. They

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Speaker 1: sent this demand. First of all, they sent a communicate

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Speaker 1: to a radio station in San Francisco, UM. And I

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Speaker 1: think that's who they basically corresponded with the public and

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Speaker 1: the police through. UM was this radio station. UM. And

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Speaker 1: they would send letters and they would eventually send like

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Speaker 1: voice recordings as well. UM. But in this first one,

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Speaker 1: they sent what was basically an arrest warrant for Petty Hirst,

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Speaker 1: Patricia Campbell Hurst, daughter of Randolph A. Hirst, corporate enemy

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Speaker 1: of the people. And they sent her credit cards as

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Speaker 1: proof that they had her, UM, which, if you ask me,

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Speaker 1: shows their hand right off the bat. They didn't send

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Speaker 1: a finger, they didn't even send like a lock of hair.

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Speaker 1: They send a credit card that you could pick up

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Speaker 1: off the ground. They could have just taken it off

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Speaker 1: of her. I don't off of her nightstand. They didn't

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Speaker 1: send anything vicious. They just sent a credit card to

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Speaker 1: prove that they had her UM, but they didn't make

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Speaker 1: any ransom demand. Then six days later after that first

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Speaker 1: communicate with the arrest warrant, that's when they said, the

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Speaker 1: Hearst need to figure out how to how to feed

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Speaker 1: any single person in California that can prove prove that

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Speaker 1: they are not um beneficiaries of the corporate capitalist state

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Speaker 1: UM with at least seventy dollars worth of high quality

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Speaker 1: food per person. Yeah, and they were like, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna get it together and whatnot. We but you

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Speaker 1: need to arrange it through the grocery stores in California

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Speaker 1: to distribute this stuff. Uh. They included in an audio

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Speaker 1: tape from Patty where she says, Mom, Dad, I'm okay.

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Speaker 1: I'm with a combat unit with automatic weapons. And these

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Speaker 1: people aren't just a bunch of nuts or morons like

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Speaker 1: Josh and Chuck and will say in the future. I

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Speaker 1: want to get out of here, but the only way

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Speaker 1: I'm going to do it is if we do it

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Speaker 1: their way. And I just hope that you'll do what

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Speaker 1: they say, Dad, uh and do it quickly, and Randy

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Speaker 1: Hurst got this and he was like, these people are morons.

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Speaker 1: How do they expect me to give everyone in California

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Speaker 1: that proves there and needs seventy dollars worth of high

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Speaker 1: quality food? What is high quality food anyway? And they're like,

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Speaker 1: that's what you mean every day, sir. It's actually pretty good. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I got you, And so he said, um, you know,

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Speaker 1: I don't even think I can pull this off, which

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Speaker 1: followed another back and forth in which Patty said, hey,

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Speaker 1: stop acting like I'm dead. Um, he needs a good

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Speaker 1: faith gesture from you. And so just a few days

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Speaker 1: after that, the Hearst Foundation formed. I guess they looked

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Speaker 1: in probably the best way to get a tax benefit

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Speaker 1: out of this, informed an actual program called People in Need,

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Speaker 1: which would feed a hundred thousand people for a year,

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Speaker 1: uh two million dollars worth of food, which sounds fairly

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Speaker 1: high quality to me. Um. Yeah. And and apparently they

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Speaker 1: had a rough start at first because they didn't know

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Speaker 1: what they were doing. There were food riots at the

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Speaker 1: distribution site, and they finally managed to get it figured out.

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Speaker 1: So in that sense, and it's kind of overlooked, I

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Speaker 1: think in a lot of histories because everything they did

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Speaker 1: after that was just so stupid and terrible. Um, but

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Speaker 1: the s l A had a genuine impact right out

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Speaker 1: of the gate that they used their their hostage for,

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Speaker 1: which was to feed poor and hungry people. So clearly

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Speaker 1: they were at least partially dedicated to that. And um

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Speaker 1: chinque matto is it? Matt me Donald the frieze, the

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Speaker 1: Field Marshal General Field Marshal. Um he he had said

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Speaker 1: in a statement, he said, you know, Mr and Mrs Hurst,

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Speaker 1: I I will, I have no qualms about executing your daughter.

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Speaker 1: Uh if will save the lives of any starving poor people.

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Speaker 1: So that was like a real big initial thing. So yeah,

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Speaker 1: I was kind of surprised that they formed this program

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Speaker 1: People in Need, which obviously was going to take a

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Speaker 1: lot of work to make into sort of a legit charity,

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Speaker 1: and they were like just for one year though, like

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Speaker 1: after that, I'm surprised they didn't say, well, you know,

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Speaker 1: maybe this is worthwhile. I mean I didn't get the

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Speaker 1: impression they were those types well, and they probably it

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Speaker 1: probably wasn't a great look to be inspired by these

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Speaker 1: uh these terrorists. That's true, that's true too, Um, but

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Speaker 1: I just find it significant that that was like that,

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Speaker 1: that was their first demand was that, and then they

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Speaker 1: actually had a real effect. But yeah, that's for more

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Speaker 1: money though. I think they said two millions not enough.

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Speaker 1: We want eight million total. And the hearse said Randy said, no, go,

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Speaker 1: you gotta release Patty Hurst if you want that extra

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Speaker 1: six mill Yeah, so they um. This I think is

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Speaker 1: another kind of overlooked thing that when you look at what,

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Speaker 1: you know, the process of of changing her mind that

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Speaker 1: Patty Hurst eventually is said to have gone through. I

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Speaker 1: think that this is really where the seeds started, because

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Speaker 1: she said later on that she felt like her parents

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Speaker 1: were trying to they were debating how much I was worth,

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Speaker 1: and they were focusing on dollars and cents um, you know,

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Speaker 1: in the balance of her daughter's life. And she, you know,

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Speaker 1: like she had said before, stop acting like I'm dead.

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Speaker 1: She apparently felt very um, if not left behind, definitely

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Speaker 1: gambled with her life, was gambled with by her parents

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Speaker 1: who were basically publicly negotiating the cost down for the

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Speaker 1: release of their daughter. And I think that that really

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Speaker 1: may have set up a nineteen year old um to

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Speaker 1: to be more open to whatever the opposite of their

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Speaker 1: parents thought processes and ideology might be. Yeah, there's another um,

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Speaker 1: really good movie about the j Paul Getty Kidney happen

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Speaker 1: called All the Money in the World, directed by Ridley Scott,

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Speaker 1: And that's sort of one of the uh threads in

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Speaker 1: that movie is you know, it's the granddad trying to

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Speaker 1: like negotiate down this money, like somebody that's like one

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Speaker 1: of the richest human beings on the planet trying to

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Speaker 1: bargain with the life of a family member, like no, genie,

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Speaker 1: no money. Really really interesting, Um, nice far ago rough

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Speaker 1: by the way, thank you. Should we take a break? Yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: why not? All right, we'll take a break and we're

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Speaker 1: gonna come back right for this and talk about what

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Speaker 1: happens on April three. So, Chuck, you mentioned April three,

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Speaker 1: and here is about the time when things really start

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Speaker 1: to turn as far as the public's perception of what

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Speaker 1: exactly is going on. Because fifty nine days earlier, Um,

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Speaker 1: Patty Hurst, poor little Patty Hurst, never harm to flee,

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Speaker 1: just you know, wanted to study art history and be

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Speaker 1: super amazingly rich Um was abducted from her house and

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Speaker 1: then forced into the public spotlight as a hostage who

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Speaker 1: was used to negotiate um between the s l A

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Speaker 1: and her parents, the hearsts Um. But then that changed.

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Speaker 1: On April three, Yeah, she sent a another tape that said,

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Speaker 1: I have been given the choice of one being released

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Speaker 1: in a safe area or two joining forces, joining the

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Speaker 1: forces of the Symbionese Liberation Army and fighting for my

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Speaker 1: freedom and the freedom of all oppressed people. I have

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Speaker 1: chosen to stay and fight. And then she revealed that

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Speaker 1: she had taken on an s l A name, Uh,

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Speaker 1: Tania or is it Taniya? I think I don't know.

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Speaker 1: Let's go with Tanya, okay, Tania t A and I A.

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Speaker 1: And they sent a little visual a too, and this

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Speaker 1: was this became very very famous picture. One of the

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Speaker 1: most famous pictures of the nineteen seventies was this photo,

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Speaker 1: this polaroid of Patty Uh, we've all seen it, holding

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Speaker 1: that machine gun, wearing the beret in front of the

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Speaker 1: s l A flag in their emblem, which was a

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Speaker 1: seven headed cobra. Very famous picture, extremely famous, and that

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Speaker 1: beret was significant, and that she adopted the nom de

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Speaker 1: guerre Tanya Um from another woman who adopted the nom

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Speaker 1: de gear of Tanya Um back in the sixties, about

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Speaker 1: a decade earlier, when she was fighting alongside Sha Gavara

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Speaker 1: and Bolivia. Her name was uh Tamera bun Que. I

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Speaker 1: believe um. She was Argentinean uh and she was a revolutionary.

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Speaker 1: And I guess Petty Hurst admired her and adopted that name.

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Speaker 1: But imagine, like put it yourself in the in the

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Speaker 1: in the position is just the average public who you know,

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Speaker 1: person in the public who's following this story. It's like,

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Speaker 1: poor little Patty Hurst, Poor little little Patty Hurst. And

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Speaker 1: then oh my god, what is this. There's a picture

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Speaker 1: of Petty Hurst looking like a total b a holding

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Speaker 1: a machine gun in a beret. Yeah, that's little ba Bakas. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And she said, I they said that they would let

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Speaker 1: me go and I could go free or I could

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Speaker 1: stay and fight. And I'm choosing to fight. And not

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Speaker 1: only that, I have a new name of war. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think this started a lot of confusion. I don't

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Speaker 1: think it was immediately everyone was like, oh my god, uh,

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Speaker 1: the future Paris Hilton of our times is now radicalized

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Speaker 1: and wants to kill people. That's true, I think it.

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Speaker 1: I think it just really confused a lot of people

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Speaker 1: that are like wait a minute, what's going on here?

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Speaker 1: I thought she was kidnapped, and now she says she's not,

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Speaker 1: and uh, it really gripped the nation. I mean, obviously

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Speaker 1: I was just a wee toddler when this is going on,

375
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Speaker 1: But I remember when I was a little kid, this

376
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: sort of still reverberating in the public sphere a little bit,

377
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Speaker 1: Like I remember hearing the name Patty Hurst when I

378
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Speaker 1: was like six or seven. Well, she also, I mean,

379
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Speaker 1: she came out with her memoirs, you know, and about

380
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Speaker 1: when you were probably ten, So I'm sure that that

381
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Speaker 1: really brought her to your attention as well. But I'm

382
00:22:29,040 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: sure that was we read that in uh whatever, fifth grade, right,

383
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Speaker 1: So um, so, yeah, you're right. You're right, that wasn't

384
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Speaker 1: the necessarily the turning point because a picture like that,

385
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Speaker 1: you know, if you're somebody's hostage, your captors can dress

386
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Speaker 1: you up however they want and take a picture of

387
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,000
Speaker 1: you and put it said, put it out there. There

388
00:22:46,080 --> 00:22:48,600
Speaker 1: was It was still shocking, but it was confusing, like

389
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,800
Speaker 1: you said, too, and then people generally knew like if

390
00:22:51,800 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: you somebody had a gun to your head, you could

391
00:22:53,720 --> 00:22:56,120
Speaker 1: say like, yeah, I'm gonna stay and fight and here's

392
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Speaker 1: my new name. The turning point, the real turning point,

393
00:22:59,440 --> 00:23:03,120
Speaker 1: that came about two weeks after that, almost two weeks

394
00:23:03,160 --> 00:23:06,720
Speaker 1: after that, and that is when Tanya made her real

395
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:11,639
Speaker 1: world debut. And at this point there was there was

396
00:23:11,840 --> 00:23:18,119
Speaker 1: very little, um question about whether she was actually involved

397
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:20,040
Speaker 1: in the s l A or just a hostage in

398
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:22,000
Speaker 1: a lot of people's mind. This is where that turning

399
00:23:22,000 --> 00:23:26,040
Speaker 1: point came. Yeah. So, um, the High Bernia Bank in

400
00:23:26,080 --> 00:23:30,879
Speaker 1: San Francisco was robbed by the s l A, including Tania,

401
00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:34,440
Speaker 1: and they shot two people. Um, Like we said earlier,

402
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,280
Speaker 1: you know, it wasn't one of these things where they

403
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: were just espousing radicalism and threatening violence. They killed people. Um,

404
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:45,040
Speaker 1: they didn't kill these two people, but they did shoot them. Um.

405
00:23:45,080 --> 00:23:47,359
Speaker 1: They made off with about tin grand to help fund

406
00:23:47,359 --> 00:23:51,800
Speaker 1: their group. On the surveillance surveillance footed, you see Patty

407
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,160
Speaker 1: right there pointing an assault rifle machine gun and screaming

408
00:23:55,160 --> 00:23:58,440
Speaker 1: at people to get down the floor, um, announcing her

409
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 1: I am Tania. And the footage played on the news

410
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,080
Speaker 1: and this is when he said. Everyone was like, man,

411
00:24:05,160 --> 00:24:09,040
Speaker 1: this is getting really really interesting. Uh. I think the

412
00:24:09,119 --> 00:24:15,520
Speaker 1: FBI wasn't fully convinced. She still wasn't being um forced

413
00:24:15,520 --> 00:24:17,440
Speaker 1: to do this though, because it's not like they didn't

414
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:20,000
Speaker 1: and they didn't issue a warrant for her arrest for

415
00:24:20,119 --> 00:24:22,800
Speaker 1: robbing a bank. She was wanted as a material witness

416
00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 1: at this point. Still yeah, still, I mean, don't forget

417
00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 1: she's white and she's rich, so you know, you can't

418
00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,560
Speaker 1: just go around saying that she's a bank robber just

419
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:32,280
Speaker 1: because she robbed a bank and plain view of everybody

420
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,879
Speaker 1: on security footage that's on TV, you know, so she

421
00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,719
Speaker 1: has a material witness. Another tape comes along, and this

422
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,480
Speaker 1: time she called her family the pig Hursts, and she said,

423
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:46,040
Speaker 1: I mean, this is sort of the ideas like has

424
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:48,119
Speaker 1: she been brainwasht or not? And she said, in no

425
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,720
Speaker 1: uncertain terms as for being brainwashed, the idea is ridiculous,

426
00:24:51,800 --> 00:24:54,880
Speaker 1: beyond belief. I am a soldier in the people's army, UM.

427
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 1: And see, this is one of those things where people

428
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:59,080
Speaker 1: are like, if you had a time machine, what's something

429
00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 1: you would do. I would go back to the beginning

430
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,200
Speaker 1: of nineteen seventy five so that I could watch this

431
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:08,359
Speaker 1: whole thing unfold in real time, like on the nightly

432
00:25:08,440 --> 00:25:10,920
Speaker 1: news and in the newspaper. It must have just been

433
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 1: totally mind blowing, because everything I have ever known about

434
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:16,960
Speaker 1: Patty Hurst was all in retrospect, and I knew the

435
00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,720
Speaker 1: whole story from beginning to end all at once. To

436
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:24,040
Speaker 1: watch the sunfold must have just been just nuts, you know.

437
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,280
Speaker 1: So you wouldn't go back and kill Hitler in his cradle? Fine,

438
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,280
Speaker 1: that's fine, Now, that's fine to see what happens with

439
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:32,679
Speaker 1: Petty Hurst. Yeah, I want to sit on a couch

440
00:25:33,119 --> 00:25:37,959
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy five, So what can I say? Okay,

441
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,000
Speaker 1: we could kill Hitler too, That's fine, all right, we can.

442
00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:43,960
Speaker 1: Can we do that first and then go watch the

443
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:45,760
Speaker 1: Petty Hurst thing and go to woods Well, I think

444
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,800
Speaker 1: the order of operation is would kill Hitler. We go

445
00:25:47,880 --> 00:25:52,639
Speaker 1: to Woodstock together, we avoid the purple acid, is brown acid,

446
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:55,520
Speaker 1: brown acid, and then we we wind up in nineteen

447
00:25:55,520 --> 00:25:58,159
Speaker 1: seventy and TV dinners watching this on TV. Okay, that

448
00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: sounds pretty nice, actually, like let's do um so so

449
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,120
Speaker 1: Patty Her sister Recap, has said that she is a

450
00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,320
Speaker 1: member of the s l A by choice, that she

451
00:26:09,359 --> 00:26:12,960
Speaker 1: has a new war name, that she is not brainwashed,

452
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:15,800
Speaker 1: and now she's been out in public on foot on

453
00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: video caught on camera shout holding a machine gun during

454
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: a bank robbery, shouting at people to get on the floor,

455
00:26:22,400 --> 00:26:25,680
Speaker 1: and witnesses are saying like she shouted, I am Tanya,

456
00:26:26,240 --> 00:26:29,840
Speaker 1: And apparently on her way out of the bank, she

457
00:26:30,040 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: dropped the clip out of her submachine gun and m

458
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:37,879
Speaker 1: wine M one carbine submachine gun like an assault rifle UM,

459
00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:39,600
Speaker 1: and the clip dropped out and it fell to the

460
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:43,359
Speaker 1: floor and two bullets UM were knocked out of the clip.

461
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:45,399
Speaker 1: She stopped and picked him up, put him back in

462
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: the clip, and then jammed the clip back in her

463
00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:50,880
Speaker 1: machine gun and strodeed out the door. Like from from

464
00:26:50,960 --> 00:26:56,080
Speaker 1: witnesses accounts, like she sounds like she was not some meek,

465
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,600
Speaker 1: timid thing who was taking orders. That she seemed to

466
00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:03,080
Speaker 1: be like a warrior, a princess. Yeah, and you gotta

467
00:27:03,119 --> 00:27:08,080
Speaker 1: go back in time to nineteen seventy five and seventy four,

468
00:27:08,119 --> 00:27:10,600
Speaker 1: when you know, we did a great episode on brainwashing.

469
00:27:10,600 --> 00:27:12,280
Speaker 1: I encourage you to go back and listen to that.

470
00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:16,640
Speaker 1: But um, briefly, we should just say that in nineteen four,

471
00:27:17,359 --> 00:27:22,480
Speaker 1: Stockholm syndrome and brainwashing, this stuff wasn't as part of

472
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: the you know, just regular conversation like it is today.

473
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:30,080
Speaker 1: The banks from stock that created the Stockholm syndrome idea

474
00:27:30,240 --> 00:27:34,639
Speaker 1: had just taken place like a year or less before this. Yeah.

475
00:27:34,680 --> 00:27:37,160
Speaker 1: So if you if someone would have said Stockholm syndrome

476
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 1: on the news, um, yeah, people might not even know

477
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:42,359
Speaker 1: what they were talking about it. So it would have

478
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,159
Speaker 1: been not out of the realm for people to not

479
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,919
Speaker 1: even understand that someone could be brainwashed like this as

480
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:50,800
Speaker 1: far as just you know, an average American goes. Yeah.

481
00:27:50,880 --> 00:27:53,400
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I mean, there there had

482
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:58,639
Speaker 1: been a real, um, a real newsworthy and like celebrated

483
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:01,520
Speaker 1: case of po dubbed views taken in the Korean War,

484
00:28:01,760 --> 00:28:05,359
Speaker 1: you know, twenty years before this that had said, you know,

485
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:08,360
Speaker 1: they signed confessions that they had engaged in germ warfare

486
00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:11,440
Speaker 1: when they hadn't. Um, there was evidence that they colluded

487
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,960
Speaker 1: with the enemy. Um, some of them, twenty one Air

488
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,600
Speaker 1: Force officers that have been captured refused to return home

489
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: when they had the ability to be returned home. And

490
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: so the idea of brainwashing was out there, but it

491
00:28:26,240 --> 00:28:29,359
Speaker 1: was still very it was nothing like our conception of

492
00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 1: it now, and it was still very much in the

493
00:28:31,640 --> 00:28:37,800
Speaker 1: beginnings of being studied and understood. Yeah. So nineteen seventy

494
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 1: four May sixteenth is when things really really change. And

495
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:43,960
Speaker 1: this was the incident. I don't know if you were

496
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:46,960
Speaker 1: referring to, but this is the one that really made

497
00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:50,240
Speaker 1: me go, Okay, I'm really I'm not so sure about

498
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:53,680
Speaker 1: this um being brainwashed or trying to just save her

499
00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:58,280
Speaker 1: own bacon thing. Uh. They were. It was Patty and

500
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:00,760
Speaker 1: then Bill and Emily Harris a couple of other s

501
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:03,920
Speaker 1: l A members. Um went to Bill and Emily went

502
00:29:03,920 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 1: into a sporting goods store for some supplies. Bill shoplifted bullets,

503
00:29:08,680 --> 00:29:11,000
Speaker 1: got caught and then tried to bolt out of there,

504
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:14,000
Speaker 1: and an employee tackled him as he was leaving. They

505
00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:17,280
Speaker 1: got Emily and captured her and then patties across the

506
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: street sort of waiting in the getaway car. She jumps out.

507
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:25,160
Speaker 1: She points that submachine gun at the store and empties

508
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:28,160
Speaker 1: the clip and then gets another rifle and keep shooting.

509
00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: She fires about thirty shots total on a public street

510
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: into a store. By the grace of God, didn't hit anybody,

511
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:38,959
Speaker 1: which is just yeah, I mean that's the most remarkable

512
00:29:38,960 --> 00:29:41,960
Speaker 1: part of this whole thing. Uh. And the Harrises got

513
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:43,440
Speaker 1: out of it, I mean it worked. They got out

514
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 1: of there, jumped in the van and they all got away.

515
00:29:46,120 --> 00:29:48,160
Speaker 1: And this is the point, and this is the one

516
00:29:48,160 --> 00:29:50,280
Speaker 1: that would really haunt her in court later on, which

517
00:29:50,280 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 1: we'll get to. But it's like it's really hard to believe.

518
00:29:55,240 --> 00:29:56,800
Speaker 1: I mean, she could have left. She was out there

519
00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:01,240
Speaker 1: by herself. Um, she could have once the s went down,

520
00:30:01,280 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 1: she could have left. But now she jumped out and

521
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:07,120
Speaker 1: she just she fired thirty shots trying to help them

522
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,040
Speaker 1: get out of there. She was left alone in the

523
00:30:09,120 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: van with the keys, reading a newspaper while they were there.

524
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: And and like, you don't even have to be a hostage.

525
00:30:14,760 --> 00:30:16,880
Speaker 1: You could just be an accomplice. And there's a good

526
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,560
Speaker 1: chance that if somebody's getting busted inside, you might just

527
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: drive off and save your own bacon. Um, like you said,

528
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,920
Speaker 1: just such a great term. Um, But yeah, she did

529
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: the opposite. She went and fought to free her comrades.

530
00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: So that, yes, that's definitely one of the things that I,

531
00:30:34,800 --> 00:30:37,840
Speaker 1: I and basically anybody else familiar with the case points to,

532
00:30:38,000 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: is like this makes basically everything else questionable. Yea, this

533
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:46,720
Speaker 1: is just not nice. So here's the thing. Um that

534
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 1: was I think May sixteenth, you said, Um, so Patty's

535
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,720
Speaker 1: been kidnapped for you know, just a few months from

536
00:30:54,760 --> 00:30:58,880
Speaker 1: February four to May um and she's already engaged in

537
00:30:58,920 --> 00:31:01,440
Speaker 1: a bank robbery and shot up in a Los Angeles

538
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,600
Speaker 1: street in storefront um and just the very next day,

539
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:09,320
Speaker 1: like the s l A is all over the news,

540
00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: like the cops are looking for him. They started out

541
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 1: in Berkeley, and they moved their way down to l

542
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:17,200
Speaker 1: A at some point. But they are again more ronic,

543
00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: uh in A lot of their actions and a lot

544
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: of their um judgment is just really insensible. But one

545
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 1: of the things they did was they, I guess, identified

546
00:31:26,840 --> 00:31:29,960
Speaker 1: somebody's house in Compton. I don't know if somebody knew

547
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:31,840
Speaker 1: them or not, or if it just looked like a

548
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: good place to hide out in sell central Los Angeles.

549
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,040
Speaker 1: And they said, hey, you, um, can we give you

550
00:31:38,040 --> 00:31:40,480
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars? I think there's just some middle aged

551
00:31:40,480 --> 00:31:42,360
Speaker 1: woman who is running a house. If we give you

552
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,880
Speaker 1: a hundred dollars, can we all stay here? And she

553
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 1: said okay, And they said, great, let's go get all

554
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:51,000
Speaker 1: of our guns, like like several dozen guns, six thousand

555
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:53,480
Speaker 1: rounds of ammunition, a few bombs and move them in.

556
00:31:54,040 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 1: And that lady started to get freaked out, and apparently

557
00:31:56,520 --> 00:31:59,400
Speaker 1: her daughter said went and flagged down a traffic cop

558
00:31:59,440 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 1: and said, hey, are you looking for a bunch of

559
00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:03,240
Speaker 1: white people who have a bunch of guns that seemed

560
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: to be hiding out, And that led to this convergence

561
00:32:06,960 --> 00:32:09,080
Speaker 1: of the l A p D on this house and

562
00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:13,920
Speaker 1: and comped him and a firefight, a shootout with most

563
00:32:14,040 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 1: of the members of the s l A in this house. Yeah,

564
00:32:17,240 --> 00:32:21,480
Speaker 1: so there is a firefight that goes down. Um, they

565
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,320
Speaker 1: lobbs some tear gas in there, that starts a fire

566
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: and it burns the house to the ground and kills

567
00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 1: all six of the s l A members inside. Um,

568
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,160
Speaker 1: Patty and the Harrises are not there. They were on

569
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 1: the lamb at this point, waiting it out in a

570
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 1: hotel room after the shoplifting thing. And then three weeks

571
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:43,760
Speaker 1: after this, the few remaining. I mean, you gotta think

572
00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,360
Speaker 1: if they killed six, there were another three hiding out,

573
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: and there were never more than twelve. There could only

574
00:32:50,040 --> 00:32:53,880
Speaker 1: be just a few more remaining. But the remaining members

575
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:58,440
Speaker 1: released another message that Patty had a real hard time

576
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:02,120
Speaker 1: with at the trial, um explaining it away because she

577
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 1: uh it was clearly upset about these deaths. She talked

578
00:33:06,320 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: about the fascist pig media and her brothers and sisters dying,

579
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 1: and then talked about remember Willie wolf in particular as

580
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:17,080
Speaker 1: the gentlest, most beautiful man I've ever known, and said

581
00:33:17,120 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 1: that neither she nor wolf had ever loved an individual

582
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:22,160
Speaker 1: the way we loved each other. I read a UM

583
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:25,840
Speaker 1: interview with Willie Wolfe's father, who was a doctor back yeast.

584
00:33:26,320 --> 00:33:28,920
Speaker 1: Willie wolf was just raised this like upper middle class

585
00:33:28,920 --> 00:33:31,520
Speaker 1: son of a doctor, you know, pretty privileged, but also

586
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:36,120
Speaker 1: not um spoiled Brady that kind of thing. I loved

587
00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:41,400
Speaker 1: the outdoors and he Um apparently just his father still

588
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 1: was just like I. I don't I don't get it

589
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 1: at all. Like that guy. He really was just super

590
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,680
Speaker 1: gentle and sweet and kind and not very political. But

591
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: something happened to him out in Berkeley, and and he

592
00:33:52,160 --> 00:33:56,320
Speaker 1: became extremely concerned. I think, a natural propensity toward caring

593
00:33:56,320 --> 00:34:00,440
Speaker 1: about what happened to other people became radicalized by in

594
00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:02,600
Speaker 1: the you know, by the s l A. He was

595
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:03,960
Speaker 1: a founding member of the s l A. It's not

596
00:34:04,080 --> 00:34:05,920
Speaker 1: like he was some lamb led to the slaughter like.

597
00:34:06,320 --> 00:34:08,160
Speaker 1: He was one of the guys who founded the s

598
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,919
Speaker 1: l A with um Donald the freeze and I think

599
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:16,799
Speaker 1: the um the couple that were shoplifting the Harrises Um.

600
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:20,480
Speaker 1: But his father really really struggled to explain it. But

601
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 1: what was remarkable to me about the interviews his father

602
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,920
Speaker 1: wasn't like over explaining. It wasn't like, uh me thinks

603
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:29,480
Speaker 1: he he doth protest too much kind of thing. Like

604
00:34:29,560 --> 00:34:32,720
Speaker 1: he just seemed genuinely baffled and like he just didn't

605
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,560
Speaker 1: understand it. And I was reading an article UM in

606
00:34:36,600 --> 00:34:39,400
Speaker 1: the l A Times and like the twentieth anniversary of

607
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:45,000
Speaker 1: that that shootout in Compton Um and the owner of

608
00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:47,160
Speaker 1: the house that had been burned down that the s

609
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:51,480
Speaker 1: l A was in, he said that every year Willie

610
00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: Wolf's mother would come and on the anniversary of of

611
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:57,880
Speaker 1: her son's death and leave this wreath UM on a

612
00:34:57,920 --> 00:35:00,399
Speaker 1: palm tree at the vacant lot where the burned out

613
00:35:00,440 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: house had been. It would just stand there in silence

614
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:05,120
Speaker 1: for hours, just once here. He said. She was the

615
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:09,600
Speaker 1: only person who ever came. Yeah, very sad. Uh And

616
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:13,120
Speaker 1: I'm sure yeah, the parents of these kids were just yeah,

617
00:35:13,520 --> 00:35:17,440
Speaker 1: like it's sort of like being the um parents of

618
00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 1: like one of the Manson family or something, Right, Yeah,

619
00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:21,960
Speaker 1: and then here's the other thing too, Like this is

620
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,920
Speaker 1: a really complicated thing. Like Donald DeFries who was an

621
00:35:25,040 --> 00:35:27,880
Speaker 1: escaped convict from prison, but I also read that his

622
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,600
Speaker 1: stepfather on three different occasions broke both of his arms

623
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 1: um to punish him. So I mean, like there's there there,

624
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,080
Speaker 1: and then um, Willie wolf it was accused of raping

625
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,879
Speaker 1: Patty Hurst too, So just how general and sweet could

626
00:35:42,880 --> 00:35:46,120
Speaker 1: he be? Like It's it's a really murky, messy case,

627
00:35:46,440 --> 00:35:49,880
Speaker 1: and appropriately so because even still today we're, you know,

628
00:35:50,000 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: in we're trying to suss out exactly what happened with

629
00:35:53,560 --> 00:35:58,799
Speaker 1: Patty Hurst in her mind back in Yeah, it's really

630
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,000
Speaker 1: I mean it's hard to figure out, um. And I

631
00:36:01,040 --> 00:36:03,680
Speaker 1: think that's what makes this such an enduring case, you know.

632
00:36:04,920 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: So the that eulogy tape was released while she was

633
00:36:08,480 --> 00:36:10,960
Speaker 1: on the run with the Harrises, and they stayed on

634
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: the run, driving across the country sort of uh bad

635
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:17,319
Speaker 1: Land style. I don't think they were killing people, that

636
00:36:17,360 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 1: they were committing crimes. They were stealing stuff and they

637
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:24,160
Speaker 1: did this for eighteen months, which is another example of

638
00:36:24,160 --> 00:36:25,719
Speaker 1: like it was just a lot easier to get away

639
00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:29,000
Speaker 1: with crimes back then, before there were cameras everywhere, and

640
00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:33,440
Speaker 1: obviously camera phones everywhere and the internet. Uh. They remained

641
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,239
Speaker 1: on the LAMB for eighteen months. About a year into that,

642
00:36:38,000 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: they robbed another bank in San Francisco and actually killed

643
00:36:40,960 --> 00:36:46,000
Speaker 1: a customer in the process. Yeah. And and you know

644
00:36:46,239 --> 00:36:47,960
Speaker 1: this would come up later at the trial. Patty Hurst

645
00:36:48,080 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: was not the trigger person, but she was involved. She

646
00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:53,719
Speaker 1: was one of the three, and a person lost their life.

647
00:36:53,760 --> 00:36:56,400
Speaker 1: You know, it's very sad. Yeah. Um, she was apparently

648
00:36:56,400 --> 00:36:59,040
Speaker 1: a church lady who was there depositing like that week's

649
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,080
Speaker 1: collection into the bank, the church's bank account, and she

650
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 1: was in the wrong place at the wrong time, and

651
00:37:03,480 --> 00:37:07,800
Speaker 1: apparently um made a fast move because she was freaked

652
00:37:07,840 --> 00:37:10,440
Speaker 1: out and got shot and died pretty quickly from what

653
00:37:10,480 --> 00:37:14,000
Speaker 1: I understand. Right, should we take another break? Yeah? Sure,

654
00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:16,239
Speaker 1: all right, this is our last break, and then we'll

655
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:19,560
Speaker 1: talk about the arrest and the trial of Patty Hurst

656
00:37:19,640 --> 00:37:55,080
Speaker 1: right after this. Alright, So she gets arrested. Um, and

657
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:58,400
Speaker 1: you know this is where things get really weird, because

658
00:37:58,920 --> 00:38:03,520
Speaker 1: you've got to stories playing out in court. Uh. One

659
00:38:03,680 --> 00:38:08,800
Speaker 1: is that I'm Patty Hurst and I was brainwashed. I

660
00:38:08,840 --> 00:38:11,120
Speaker 1: was kept in a closet for fifty seven days when

661
00:38:11,160 --> 00:38:14,319
Speaker 1: they abducted me, I was blindfolded and bound. I was

662
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,359
Speaker 1: raped by Donald DeFreeze and Willie Wolf. I was abused

663
00:38:18,800 --> 00:38:21,759
Speaker 1: and lectured about how righteous they were. And then after

664
00:38:21,840 --> 00:38:25,120
Speaker 1: fifty seven days, I was told, hey, you can either

665
00:38:25,200 --> 00:38:28,399
Speaker 1: join up with us or we can kill you, and

666
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: she said I joined up. So story number one is that.

667
00:38:31,760 --> 00:38:34,920
Speaker 1: Story number two is the other. Yeah, Story number two is,

668
00:38:34,960 --> 00:38:38,440
Speaker 1: we have video evidence of you robbing a bank. Witnesses

669
00:38:38,480 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: say that you were involved in another bank robber, a

670
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 1: woman was killed. We have you on tape talking about

671
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,839
Speaker 1: how you're not brainwashed, and how you joined this by

672
00:38:47,880 --> 00:38:50,799
Speaker 1: your own free will and your parents are pigs. So

673
00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,359
Speaker 1: it was it was a pretty airtight case as far

674
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,600
Speaker 1: as the prosecution goes for it not for one thing,

675
00:38:58,160 --> 00:39:00,680
Speaker 1: and that is that she was initially kidney apped. She

676
00:39:00,719 --> 00:39:03,200
Speaker 1: didn't run off and do this like, she didn't get

677
00:39:03,239 --> 00:39:05,319
Speaker 1: bored and like go to a community center and end

678
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:07,520
Speaker 1: up falling in with the s l A like she

679
00:39:07,880 --> 00:39:14,600
Speaker 1: was kidnapped. And our understanding of um of psychology was

680
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:17,480
Speaker 1: still kind of jelling around the idea of brainwashing, but

681
00:39:17,520 --> 00:39:20,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't just completely unheard of. The thing is it

682
00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,120
Speaker 1: had never been tried in a criminal case before Um

683
00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:26,960
Speaker 1: and the Hursts hired the very famous I think already

684
00:39:27,040 --> 00:39:29,799
Speaker 1: he was a very famous attorney, eff Lee Bailey UM

685
00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,480
Speaker 1: who defended the Boston Strangler. He was also on O

686
00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 1: J's team. Um. He was just a super famous lawyer. UM.

687
00:39:37,719 --> 00:39:41,080
Speaker 1: And he tried it, and I think in retrospect that's

688
00:39:41,120 --> 00:39:44,040
Speaker 1: the only thing he possibly could have tried was to

689
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: say she was brainwashed, like you said, yeah, And they

690
00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: had psychiatrists that came in to back that up and say,

691
00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,520
Speaker 1: this is very possible. That brought up the stuff about

692
00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:58,160
Speaker 1: the p POW's Um. They had multiple psychiatrists come in

693
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:00,640
Speaker 1: and kind of take their side. Then as far as

694
00:40:00,640 --> 00:40:02,680
Speaker 1: the tapes go, Patty said, you know what, those were

695
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: scripted and I had no choice. I had to read

696
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:08,560
Speaker 1: them as they said. And if you think they're believable,

697
00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:12,319
Speaker 1: it's because I believe that my life depended on how

698
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:15,560
Speaker 1: well of a job I did reading these things. Uh,

699
00:40:15,600 --> 00:40:18,120
Speaker 1: and that those tapes were I mean, that was the

700
00:40:18,160 --> 00:40:22,480
Speaker 1: big big evidence in in the trial was how passionate

701
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:26,040
Speaker 1: she was and how she talked about her love of

702
00:40:26,040 --> 00:40:30,400
Speaker 1: Willie Wolf and you know, other psych psychiatrists for the

703
00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,960
Speaker 1: prosecution came in and they were like, you know what,

704
00:40:33,080 --> 00:40:35,520
Speaker 1: I've listened to these things over and over, and I

705
00:40:35,520 --> 00:40:37,560
Speaker 1: don't know an actress on earth who could pull this

706
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,840
Speaker 1: off like she was. If she was reading scripted stuff,

707
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:42,719
Speaker 1: it surely doesn't sound that way to me, right, And

708
00:40:42,760 --> 00:40:46,439
Speaker 1: she also did not she literally did not help her case. Um.

709
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:49,080
Speaker 1: When she was arrested, she put down as her occupation

710
00:40:49,239 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: urban guerrilla. Um. She was you know, Um, she was like,

711
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:57,560
Speaker 1: uh throwing like fight the power fists. Anytime somebody took

712
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,400
Speaker 1: a picture of her. Um, she was very which like

713
00:41:01,200 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: not the oh my god, I'm glad to be freed

714
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: kind of thing that you would expect, and I think

715
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:08,919
Speaker 1: that the public wanted to see. And then also when

716
00:41:08,960 --> 00:41:13,240
Speaker 1: she took the stand, Um, I can't believe. I cannot

717
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: believe it either. Um, but she took the stand. On

718
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:20,319
Speaker 1: cross examination, she played the fifth forty two times, which

719
00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:23,240
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, the public does not really trust people

720
00:41:23,239 --> 00:41:25,840
Speaker 1: who plead the fifth, especially forty two times, especially if

721
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:29,200
Speaker 1: they're supposed to be a kidnapped victim. So there's a

722
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:31,600
Speaker 1: there's a there was a lot that the prosecution had

723
00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,400
Speaker 1: going for them in that sense. And then the defense

724
00:41:34,440 --> 00:41:37,200
Speaker 1: has basically had brainwashed. He's brainwashed. One of the things

725
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:39,840
Speaker 1: they said was like she was raped. She was raped

726
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:44,920
Speaker 1: by these men, so um, of course, like she feared them. Uh,

727
00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:47,319
Speaker 1: they threatened her life. Of course she feared him. And

728
00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:50,719
Speaker 1: apparently I guess the prosecution got her to say that, no,

729
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,960
Speaker 1: she didn't love Willie wolf By the way, she never

730
00:41:53,000 --> 00:41:55,000
Speaker 1: saw Stephen Weed again as far as I could tell.

731
00:41:55,239 --> 00:41:56,880
Speaker 1: She didn't want to see him. She didn't get back

732
00:41:56,920 --> 00:42:00,279
Speaker 1: together with them, um, And I don't think they ever

733
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,680
Speaker 1: saw each other again, even though he was, you know,

734
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:05,280
Speaker 1: speaking to the press the whole time and being very supportive.

735
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,440
Speaker 1: But she was like, now I'm moving on. Um. But

736
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:11,719
Speaker 1: the prosecution got her to say, uh, you know you

737
00:42:11,719 --> 00:42:14,040
Speaker 1: said you love Willy wolf Did you love him? She said, no,

738
00:42:14,080 --> 00:42:16,840
Speaker 1: I hated him. And then they produced this thing that

739
00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 1: is another I think another uh mark that that really

740
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:24,760
Speaker 1: stands against her in the mind of a lot of people,

741
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:28,919
Speaker 1: which is little statue that she had gotten from Willy Wolfe. Right, Yeah,

742
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:31,439
Speaker 1: they pull this out and they're like, then what is this?

743
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,200
Speaker 1: Is this not, in fact a gift from your supposed

744
00:42:36,280 --> 00:42:39,680
Speaker 1: captor and supposed rapist, Willie Wolfe, Why would you keep

745
00:42:39,719 --> 00:42:44,040
Speaker 1: this gift still in her reply was the opposite of

746
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:48,800
Speaker 1: my famous saying. She said, I like art, yeah, instead

747
00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:51,880
Speaker 1: of I hate art yeah. And uh she said, you know,

748
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,959
Speaker 1: I'm an art history student and I like art. And

749
00:42:55,360 --> 00:42:57,360
Speaker 1: you know, if you're trying to move the needle for

750
00:42:57,400 --> 00:43:00,600
Speaker 1: a jury, that's that's not the way to well. One

751
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,439
Speaker 1: of the women jurors um on the case said, like,

752
00:43:04,600 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 1: no woman would carry around a love trinket from a

753
00:43:07,520 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: man who raped her, and that that really ruined her credibility. UM.

754
00:43:12,200 --> 00:43:15,680
Speaker 1: At the same time, though, Jeffrey Tuban, who wrote a

755
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:19,839
Speaker 1: book on this um American heiress. Yes, but he still

756
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:22,919
Speaker 1: had a legitimate book despite what he's done since then,

757
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:27,680
Speaker 1: I just started to I know, I know, um he

758
00:43:27,680 --> 00:43:29,480
Speaker 1: He made a really good point though that I think

759
00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:33,480
Speaker 1: it is worth repeating here, and that is that regardless

760
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,560
Speaker 1: of um, you know, maybe how she ended up feeling

761
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:40,360
Speaker 1: about Willie Woolf, for anybody that that were her captors,

762
00:43:41,520 --> 00:43:43,800
Speaker 1: she was kept in a closet for fifty seven days,

763
00:43:43,880 --> 00:43:45,800
Speaker 1: and anyone who had sex with her in that closet

764
00:43:45,840 --> 00:43:48,960
Speaker 1: raped her. That there's no chance for that to have

765
00:43:49,040 --> 00:43:52,279
Speaker 1: been consensual, no matter how she behaved during that was

766
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:55,279
Speaker 1: that was rape and then then she was raped, and

767
00:43:55,320 --> 00:43:57,719
Speaker 1: that should be you know, it shouldn't be brushed aside

768
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:00,239
Speaker 1: no matter. You know, how she came to feel about

769
00:44:00,239 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: Willie Wolf, and I think that's that's definitely a good

770
00:44:03,080 --> 00:44:08,080
Speaker 1: point to remember. Yeah, I mean, if that entire story

771
00:44:08,160 --> 00:44:11,640
Speaker 1: is true about being kept in the closet, and you know,

772
00:44:12,239 --> 00:44:15,839
Speaker 1: most of this testimony comes from her, uh, and there

773
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,799
Speaker 1: are still people that think she cooked up this entire thing. Um,

774
00:44:20,880 --> 00:44:22,440
Speaker 1: and you know what, she just wanted to get out

775
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:25,799
Speaker 1: of her engagement to Steve Weed to begin with. And

776
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:29,000
Speaker 1: that's why that's such a conspiracy theory or people saying that.

777
00:44:29,080 --> 00:44:31,759
Speaker 1: I'm sure they are, but really, you came out Okay, No,

778
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 1: I was literally making a joke. If you see, if

779
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:36,759
Speaker 1: you see the like footage of Steve Weed, He's the

780
00:44:36,840 --> 00:44:38,799
Speaker 1: kind that somebody would do that to get out of

781
00:44:38,880 --> 00:44:44,880
Speaker 1: relationship with him. I'm sorry Steve and Weed, but yeah,

782
00:44:45,560 --> 00:44:50,960
Speaker 1: just to just to get out of just because he's

783
00:44:51,600 --> 00:44:55,120
Speaker 1: a guy. It'll only take a few years, right, one

784
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 1: person has to die. I'm sorry, but oh boy, so

785
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,880
Speaker 1: um she on March twenty two years old. By the way,

786
00:45:02,880 --> 00:45:05,440
Speaker 1: I don't think that has really you know, may have

787
00:45:05,520 --> 00:45:07,480
Speaker 1: hit home to our listeners, she's still just a kid.

788
00:45:08,360 --> 00:45:10,640
Speaker 1: She was sentenced to seven years in prison for robbing

789
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:15,239
Speaker 1: that bank. She served twenty two months of that near

790
00:45:15,280 --> 00:45:18,840
Speaker 1: San Francisco at pleasant in prison. And you mentioned Jimmy

791
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:20,840
Speaker 1: Carter earlier, and we put a pin in that, and

792
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: I'm sure people are like, what does Jimmy Carter have

793
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: to do with any of this? He commuted her sentence.

794
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:28,439
Speaker 1: It was very controversial at the time. He said that

795
00:45:28,520 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 1: he um, he fully believed her, that she was a

796
00:45:32,880 --> 00:45:35,799
Speaker 1: victim and would not have done any of this had

797
00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:39,120
Speaker 1: she not been brainwashed and kidnapped and brainwashed. And they

798
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:40,920
Speaker 1: said what about steviewed and he was like, I don't

799
00:45:40,960 --> 00:45:44,880
Speaker 1: know who that is, and uh. He was just a

800
00:45:44,880 --> 00:45:48,160
Speaker 1: big supporter of her, and he eventually um actually helped

801
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:50,600
Speaker 1: persuade Bill Clinton to pardon her. In two thousand one.

802
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,960
Speaker 1: He did, um, he granted her. He commuted her sentence,

803
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,200
Speaker 1: so she was let let out after twenty two months.

804
00:45:56,239 --> 00:45:59,319
Speaker 1: But it was Clinton who pardoned her. And I said

805
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:02,680
Speaker 1: earlier that you know, Carter, I think had the most

806
00:46:02,719 --> 00:46:05,520
Speaker 1: sensible opinion of the whole thing, and it was simply

807
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:10,880
Speaker 1: that had she not been kidnapped, um By the s

808
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: l A and forced into these, you know, a life

809
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 1: of crime. Basically, she otherwise would never have engaged in

810
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:20,680
Speaker 1: any of those criminal acts like she was. Her life

811
00:46:20,719 --> 00:46:23,000
Speaker 1: was not in any way, shape or form on a

812
00:46:23,040 --> 00:46:26,359
Speaker 1: trajectory to robbing banks. She was just going to end

813
00:46:26,400 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 1: up being kind of a a a art history a

814
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:34,680
Speaker 1: rich art history person. Yeah, you've got a collected by

815
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,719
Speaker 1: expensive art probably, yeah, basically, which you know, like that

816
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:39,680
Speaker 1: was gonna be your contribution to the world. Had some

817
00:46:39,760 --> 00:46:42,520
Speaker 1: kids and and um be very very wealthy. She was

818
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:44,480
Speaker 1: not going to go rob banks. And the s l

819
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,560
Speaker 1: A forced her to do there, forced her into that life,

820
00:46:47,600 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 1: even if they didn't force her to rob banks. The

821
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:53,319
Speaker 1: thing is, though, is that still leaves dangling. There's a

822
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:56,279
Speaker 1: big blank space after that sentence, and that is but

823
00:46:56,400 --> 00:46:59,839
Speaker 1: she still robbed the banks. And it does seem like

824
00:47:00,000 --> 00:47:02,480
Speaker 1: you did it from her own volition. And I mean,

825
00:47:02,520 --> 00:47:06,279
Speaker 1: anybody who was nineteen can imagine what it must have

826
00:47:06,360 --> 00:47:09,640
Speaker 1: been like to be a nineteen or early twenty year

827
00:47:09,680 --> 00:47:14,360
Speaker 1: old shooting up a storefront to free a couple of friends.

828
00:47:15,440 --> 00:47:20,040
Speaker 1: You know, as reckless, as dangerous, as murderous, as unjustifiable

829
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:22,520
Speaker 1: and indefensible as that is. It also must have been

830
00:47:22,920 --> 00:47:26,880
Speaker 1: probably the most thrilling moment of Patty Hurst's entire life

831
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:31,400
Speaker 1: to this day. Well, of course it was, because shockingly

832
00:47:32,360 --> 00:47:35,600
Speaker 1: she led a pretty low key life for many many

833
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:40,120
Speaker 1: years after this. She got out of prison, she married

834
00:47:40,160 --> 00:47:43,520
Speaker 1: a former cop. His name was Bernard Shaw, not the composer,

835
00:47:43,600 --> 00:47:47,319
Speaker 1: but um, he was her bodyguard. He was moonlighting once

836
00:47:47,360 --> 00:47:49,680
Speaker 1: she was out on bail as a bodyguard, had a

837
00:47:49,719 --> 00:47:53,520
Speaker 1: couple of kids, raised their kids in Connecticut, and lived

838
00:47:53,560 --> 00:47:57,360
Speaker 1: a really quiet life until nineteen one. A couple of

839
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,719
Speaker 1: years after that, she published her memoir Like Said, which

840
00:48:00,719 --> 00:48:03,919
Speaker 1: we read in our our fifth grade reading class, Every

841
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:09,680
Speaker 1: Secret Thing, and Um. Then she kind of was very public,

842
00:48:09,719 --> 00:48:12,520
Speaker 1: but not Uh. She was public in the way that

843
00:48:14,280 --> 00:48:17,240
Speaker 1: I'm not saying she should have had shame, but shamelessly public,

844
00:48:17,560 --> 00:48:21,759
Speaker 1: going on TV shows plugging her book, talking about her memoirs,

845
00:48:21,840 --> 00:48:25,240
Speaker 1: talking about what happened, buddying up with maybe the weirdest

846
00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:27,800
Speaker 1: thing in this whole story, budding up with John Waters

847
00:48:27,840 --> 00:48:31,839
Speaker 1: and starring in four of his movies. Yeah, I mean

848
00:48:31,960 --> 00:48:34,919
Speaker 1: she she was in a bunch of them. Mom, Yeah,

849
00:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,880
Speaker 1: I remember when I saw her in these movies, thinking,

850
00:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 1: is that Patty Hurst Patty Hirst, and it totally was that.

851
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,200
Speaker 1: I think this is before the internet when I saw

852
00:48:42,239 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: these and um, so like I read a newspaper article

853
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,560
Speaker 1: or something confirming that. I was like, all right, I

854
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:50,719
Speaker 1: guess that's what she's doing. Now. Were you in a

855
00:48:50,800 --> 00:48:54,960
Speaker 1: van waiting for your accomplices while you read that newspaper article. No,

856
00:48:55,080 --> 00:48:57,560
Speaker 1: it was a very strange time though. Um. And then

857
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:00,680
Speaker 1: there were a couple of more cases in the late nineties. Uh,

858
00:49:00,719 --> 00:49:03,320
Speaker 1: the FBI captured this woman. She was an s L

859
00:49:03,360 --> 00:49:09,000
Speaker 1: a fugitive named Kathleen Solia. She was living. She managed

860
00:49:09,040 --> 00:49:10,840
Speaker 1: to get out and live a very quiet life as

861
00:49:10,880 --> 00:49:15,200
Speaker 1: Sarah Jane Olsen. She's basically like Homer Simpsons mom. Yeah,

862
00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 1: also a wife and mother in Connecticut. And she was

863
00:49:18,719 --> 00:49:23,960
Speaker 1: arrested for a car bombing carried out in seventy five. Actually,

864
00:49:23,960 --> 00:49:26,520
Speaker 1: I think the weirdest part of the story is is

865
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:29,960
Speaker 1: that her daughter ended up being a contestant on American Idol.

866
00:49:30,560 --> 00:49:33,600
Speaker 1: Is that right? That's a little weird. I don't know

867
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:36,719
Speaker 1: if that's starring in John Waters movies level weird, but

868
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:40,680
Speaker 1: it's definitely that's a great little It's a nice little tidbit.

869
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,239
Speaker 1: Her daughters though, when they were questioned about this, We're like,

870
00:49:44,760 --> 00:49:46,920
Speaker 1: you know, this was Berkeley in the seventies, Like it

871
00:49:47,000 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: was kind of not everybody up they were. That was

872
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:54,640
Speaker 1: kind of their attitude. It was interesting. It is interesting. Um,

873
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: I've got a little detail I turned up that I

874
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 1: hadn't seen anywhere else, but it was from the recollections

875
00:49:59,560 --> 00:50:02,680
Speaker 1: of an the one of the FBI agents who arrested

876
00:50:03,280 --> 00:50:07,040
Speaker 1: Patty Hurst finally, and they said, get this man. She

877
00:50:07,160 --> 00:50:10,440
Speaker 1: was on the run with another s l A member,

878
00:50:10,480 --> 00:50:16,000
Speaker 1: Wendy Yoshimura, And when the agents came up these backstairs

879
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:18,640
Speaker 1: to this house where she and Wendy were hiding out,

880
00:50:19,160 --> 00:50:22,320
Speaker 1: they were sitting at the kitchen table, and the agents

881
00:50:22,320 --> 00:50:25,040
Speaker 1: came in with their guns drawn, and Wendy Yoshimura had

882
00:50:25,080 --> 00:50:27,760
Speaker 1: both hands on the table and did everything those FBI

883
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: agents said. Patty Hurst jumped up and ran to the

884
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:35,400
Speaker 1: front room, and apparently the FBI agents said, you know,

885
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,920
Speaker 1: get back here, We're gonna shoot Wendy or something like that.

886
00:50:37,920 --> 00:50:41,960
Speaker 1: They said that they couldn't guarantee Wendy's safety unless, um,

887
00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:44,600
Speaker 1: Patty came back. So Patty reluctantly came back into the

888
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,440
Speaker 1: kitchen where she was arrested, but when they went back

889
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: and searched the house in the front room, they found

890
00:50:50,600 --> 00:50:55,040
Speaker 1: her M one carbine and a twelve gage shotgun, which

891
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:58,759
Speaker 1: really it's very difficult not to imagine that she was

892
00:50:58,840 --> 00:51:01,160
Speaker 1: jumping up to go get her gone to engage in

893
00:51:01,200 --> 00:51:08,120
Speaker 1: a gun battle. Interesting. That's nuts, man. Wow. Well, Celia

894
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:11,479
Speaker 1: gets uh found out as Sarah Jane Wilson. Like I said,

895
00:51:11,560 --> 00:51:15,000
Speaker 1: that trial and then another one. Remember that bank robbery

896
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:16,880
Speaker 1: that we mentioned earlier when they were on the lamb

897
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:20,520
Speaker 1: Uh that comes back to haunt her as well. And

898
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,200
Speaker 1: there are these two kind of trials popping up where

899
00:51:23,280 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: she has immunity. If she's going to come in and

900
00:51:26,080 --> 00:51:28,720
Speaker 1: testify and say who the shooter was, she was gonna

901
00:51:28,719 --> 00:51:31,080
Speaker 1: say it was Emily Harris. She was all prepared to

902
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:35,200
Speaker 1: testify against them, and they both everyone ended up leading

903
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:37,720
Speaker 1: guilty and so she didn't have to go to court

904
00:51:37,880 --> 00:51:40,520
Speaker 1: again and she kind of just went back to her

905
00:51:40,920 --> 00:51:45,000
Speaker 1: Her life is as Patty Hurst, the mom in Connecticut.

906
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,880
Speaker 1: That's right, very interesting story. And like we said, we

907
00:51:48,960 --> 00:51:52,120
Speaker 1: look back now and I don't think anyone has the

908
00:51:52,160 --> 00:51:56,160
Speaker 1: clearest picture still of exactly what happened. My guess is

909
00:51:56,280 --> 00:51:58,959
Speaker 1: it might have been a little bit of both. Yeah,

910
00:51:59,040 --> 00:52:03,360
Speaker 1: I think there was an initial brainwashing hostage thing, but um,

911
00:52:03,400 --> 00:52:07,440
Speaker 1: you know, William Harris later said we inadvertently kidnapped a

912
00:52:07,520 --> 00:52:11,200
Speaker 1: revolutionary freak like she was, just she had a real

913
00:52:11,239 --> 00:52:14,200
Speaker 1: propensity for it. Yeah, and that they were still they

914
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:17,239
Speaker 1: were astounded by how how eagerly she took it on.

915
00:52:17,520 --> 00:52:19,120
Speaker 1: So well, and this is coming you know, you gotta

916
00:52:19,120 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: remember too, this is a nineteen year old coming off

917
00:52:22,160 --> 00:52:25,879
Speaker 1: the heels of being a middle schooler in the late

918
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: sixties when all of that's going on, and you know,

919
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:32,600
Speaker 1: so that was in the public sphere as in her

920
00:52:32,600 --> 00:52:36,160
Speaker 1: whole life growing up really this radical revolutionary kind of thing,

921
00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:40,359
Speaker 1: growing up in northern California near San Francisco. So yes,

922
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,280
Speaker 1: she may have been like, hey, this is my chance. Yeah,

923
00:52:44,480 --> 00:52:48,320
Speaker 1: and she took it. Uh. Well, that's Petty Hurst, everybody.

924
00:52:48,520 --> 00:52:49,960
Speaker 1: If you want to know more about it, there's a

925
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 1: lot of ink that's been spilled on her story, and

926
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,600
Speaker 1: just go down that rabbit hole as deep as you like.

927
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:58,839
Speaker 1: And since I said that, it's time for a listener, ma'am.

928
00:53:01,600 --> 00:53:04,160
Speaker 1: I'm curious to read her or I guess reread her

929
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:12,080
Speaker 1: memoir years Yeah, it's been many years. Uh, let me

930
00:53:12,120 --> 00:53:16,040
Speaker 1: see here. I'm gonna call this Bavarian Beavers. Hey, guys,

931
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:18,560
Speaker 1: want to take the opportunity to talk about your recent

932
00:53:18,600 --> 00:53:21,920
Speaker 1: show on beavers. To tell you what I have been

933
00:53:21,960 --> 00:53:26,200
Speaker 1: doing for a few years now. Um, between finishing school

934
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:28,560
Speaker 1: and starting university, I did nine months of civil service

935
00:53:28,920 --> 00:53:32,000
Speaker 1: and my regional environmental authority. My main focus, besides cleaning

936
00:53:32,040 --> 00:53:35,840
Speaker 1: up local forest was taking care of beavers. I basically

937
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:39,160
Speaker 1: had to maintain live traps and had to perform sabotage

938
00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:41,760
Speaker 1: on dams of beavers which flooded fields of local farmers.

939
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,960
Speaker 1: Now I did so on a daily basis, since overnight

940
00:53:46,320 --> 00:53:50,279
Speaker 1: the dams were of course restored by their respective constructors. Uh.

941
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:53,320
Speaker 1: This was done in order to softly, softly forced the

942
00:53:53,360 --> 00:53:56,840
Speaker 1: beavers to find a new place to live, which mostly

943
00:53:56,880 --> 00:54:00,000
Speaker 1: worked after a few months. Also, two beavers were called

944
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:02,680
Speaker 1: alive during my period of service, and we're moved to

945
00:54:02,719 --> 00:54:05,160
Speaker 1: the UK as far as I know, in order to

946
00:54:05,200 --> 00:54:07,880
Speaker 1: reintroduce them there. As far as I know, they went

947
00:54:08,040 --> 00:54:12,000
Speaker 1: to go live on a farm in England. I learned

948
00:54:12,000 --> 00:54:13,920
Speaker 1: a lot about these animals during this time and I

949
00:54:13,960 --> 00:54:16,400
Speaker 1: was stoked when I saw this episode title pop up

950
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,320
Speaker 1: as usual. You did a great job gathering and summarizing

951
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,759
Speaker 1: all the facts and interesting good to knows, including the

952
00:54:21,800 --> 00:54:26,120
Speaker 1: weird classification as fish for religious reasons. Keep up the

953
00:54:26,160 --> 00:54:29,320
Speaker 1: great work. This is from Bavaria, Germany, and that is

954
00:54:29,360 --> 00:54:33,279
Speaker 1: from Nico. Nico says, uh, Chuck, hats off to you

955
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:36,240
Speaker 1: and your German skills. To Nico's being very kind, Yeah,

956
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,160
Speaker 1: what about me, Nko? What about Josh? Well, you you

957
00:54:40,239 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 1: own Japanese and Spanish, all right, But Nico didn't say

958
00:54:43,160 --> 00:54:47,359
Speaker 1: anything about it, No, she did. That was the pss. Okay, Okay,

959
00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:51,640
Speaker 1: there you go. So thanks a lot Nico for complimenting

960
00:54:51,640 --> 00:54:54,279
Speaker 1: both of us. I appreciate you finally getting to it.

961
00:54:54,560 --> 00:54:56,360
Speaker 1: And if you want to be like Nico and compliment

962
00:54:56,440 --> 00:54:58,480
Speaker 1: both of us, we love that kind of thing. You

963
00:54:58,520 --> 00:55:01,320
Speaker 1: can send us an email to Stuff podcast at iHeart

964
00:55:01,400 --> 00:55:06,720
Speaker 1: radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a production

965
00:55:06,719 --> 00:55:09,480
Speaker 1: of iHeart Radio's How Stuff Works. For more podcasts for

966
00:55:09,520 --> 00:55:12,320
Speaker 1: my heart Radio, visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

967
00:55:12,360 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. H