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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Rewind with Karen and Georgia.

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Speaker 2: Every Wednesday, we recap our old shows with all new commentary,

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Speaker 2: updates and insights, and you are welcome.

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Speaker 1: Today we're recapping episode sixty six, which we named the

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Speaker 1: Devil's Number, which isn't true.

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Speaker 2: It isn't true at all. Okay, we're five hundred and

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Speaker 2: forty four away forty three. This episode came out on

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Speaker 2: April twenty seventh, twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's listen to the intro of episode sixty six.

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Speaker 1: You said, what did you say, cross your.

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Speaker 2: Cross your t's, and dot your everything. That's us tightening up,

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Speaker 2: the tightening the ship.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, trying to be correct.

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Speaker 2: Trying to fucking do it right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just be a profectals, that's the goal, that's the dream.

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Speaker 1: So cross your t's and dire everything.

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Speaker 2: It's not gonna happen on this episode.

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Speaker 1: Nope.

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Speaker 2: Welcome to My Favorite Murder. That's Georgia Hartstark.

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Speaker 1: That's Karen kill Gareth.

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Speaker 2: This is the show where we talk about our favorite

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Speaker 2: true crime stories and other things.

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Speaker 1: I love that our ads, like, I'm having so much

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Speaker 1: more fun with our ads now that we're like saying

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Speaker 1: what they're saying, you know, like our tone of voice

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Speaker 1: in them being very normal.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're practicing being normal. We're practicing having professionals speaking voices.

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Speaker 1: I think it's working.

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Speaker 2: I like it. It's good practice.

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Speaker 1: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: Hi, because you've just been asked to be the voice

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Speaker 2: of McDonald's.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's me chicken McNuggets.

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Speaker 2: Can I start off with business? Yeh, way up front,

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Speaker 2: this is important. The story that I told last week

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Speaker 2: about Ronnie Chasen's murder her shooting death was taken entirely

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Speaker 2: from an article that a man named Gary Baum wrote

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Speaker 2: for The Hollywood Reporter, and I did not credit him

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Speaker 2: until the fifty minute mark, and somebody called me out

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Speaker 2: about it on Twitter, and of course at first I

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Speaker 2: was very offended and completely I texted Stephen. I was like,

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Speaker 2: this isn't possible.

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Speaker 1: Can I remember you mentioning it too? Yeah, Like it

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Speaker 1: was clear to me what you were saying.

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Speaker 2: But I think the thing, the important thing and the

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Speaker 2: reason I'm pointing it out like this is because the end,

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Speaker 2: when I went to listen back, it wasn't even full credit.

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Speaker 2: The way I said it was almost like I was

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Speaker 2: citing him for the following quote as opposed to everything

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Speaker 2: I'd been saying. So just to make that point, my

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Speaker 2: apologies to Gary Baum of the Hollywood Reporter. I did

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Speaker 2: not mean to take credit for your hard work. I

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Speaker 2: feel like the only reason that story is out there

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Speaker 2: is because of the articles he's written, based on the

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Speaker 2: research he's done on these files that Beverly Hills Police

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Speaker 2: is released, and it's all him. I was just reading

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Speaker 2: his quotes and his timeline chronology, all of it. So

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Speaker 2: I should have said that the very beginning where it belongs,

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Speaker 2: and I apologize for not doing that.

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Speaker 1: So sometimes at the very end, you know, we'll be like,

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Speaker 1: and I got a lot of help from this article

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Speaker 1: by this person, So maybe we should say that in

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Speaker 1: the beginning, even if it's not the whole thing, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, I you know, we could go through and

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Speaker 2: pull It's the thing is this we're never about Like

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Speaker 2: I went down and read these files at the you know,

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Speaker 2: police station or whatever like, But that doesn't mean people

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Speaker 2: that are listening know that, or give us the benefit

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Speaker 2: of the doubt or understand. So I think that's especially

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Speaker 2: for me as a professional writer, being accused of plagiarism

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Speaker 2: is a horrible feeling. And something that I never want

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Speaker 2: to keep the door open on. So I will always

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Speaker 2: cite from now on and just be very careful. But

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Speaker 2: I think it's also it's good to get called on something,

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Speaker 2: because that's the line that get Once it gets sloppy,

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Speaker 2: it just gets sloppier for me. Anyway. It's like I'm

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Speaker 2: always like, oh, I have to do my book report

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Speaker 2: at the last minute, and then it's you to me

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Speaker 2: that's like, oh, it's this built an excuse to like

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Speaker 2: be sloppy, and there's no excuse for that. You can't

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Speaker 2: do that.

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Speaker 1: The thing of like, well this was already said perfectly,

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Speaker 1: so I'm gonna do that, right, but you could put

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Speaker 1: your spin on it.

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Speaker 2: Well, in the past, we've always just gone, I'm totally

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Speaker 2: reading you. This article from like the I five Killer

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Speaker 2: was almost all ESPN dot com article or like most

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Speaker 2: of the timeline and most of that bulk of information.

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Speaker 2: So like that's how we do it. We're retelling you

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Speaker 2: articles that we've read. But you just have to say it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's not what we're always doing. So I don't

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Speaker 1: want that's not this podcast.

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Speaker 2: I'm sorry, That's what I'm always doing.

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Speaker 1: No, no, no, no, no, that's not what this podcast is. So

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Speaker 1: that was a dot your everything corner or across your

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Speaker 1: tea corner.

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Speaker 2: That's exactly right. But are those two different things?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Yes, no, yes or no? You know what I mean?

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Speaker 2: I do? I do?

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Speaker 1: Oh? Can I This is a good segue into my

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Speaker 1: podcasting favorites. Now, okay, can I do this? So I'm

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Speaker 1: now listening to in my fucking quest to always be

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Speaker 1: listening to a like a season long narrative true crime

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Speaker 1: podcast that I'm obsessed with and then finish in a

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Speaker 1: week and I'm fucking devastated. I love that.

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Speaker 2: That's the at the end. It's like you're throwing yourself

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Speaker 2: off a cliff on purpose for a good story.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. I need them. You've craved those things.

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Speaker 2: And then you grieve them when it's over it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I'm like, what are we doing with my

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Speaker 1: fucking life now? And then I find a new one,

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Speaker 1: thank fucking God. So please listen. Keep making them investigative journalists,

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Speaker 1: and Georgia will keep not throwing herself off a cliff

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Speaker 1: for them. It's called The Accused, and it's about this

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Speaker 1: this chick name Elizabeth Andy's in Ohio and nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: eight who got murdered and like some dude, they arrested

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Speaker 1: him and he went to trial twice and was acquitted,

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Speaker 1: and like, who fucking did it? And this chick who's

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Speaker 1: like researching it is awesome and ask the hard question

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Speaker 1: to the cops and stuff, but with like a really cute,

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Speaker 1: sweet voice, so it's not I like it. Oh and

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Speaker 1: then oh, the other thing I was going to say

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Speaker 1: is speaking of just reading articles. This is my new

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Speaker 1: sleeping podcast is called Mysteries Abound, and it's just this

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Speaker 1: dude with a most soothing British accent you've ever heard,

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Speaker 1: and he's just reading articles of mysterious things that have happened.

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Speaker 1: So it's like Mars and murder. And then like you know, uh,

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Speaker 1: people who people who have Seriously, how do I fucking

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Speaker 1: turn this alarm off my watch? I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: always done that.

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Speaker 2: Just once a day you have to think about it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, in the middle of a podcast.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, I've been falling asleep to it and that sounds awesome.

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Speaker 1: It's so soothing.

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Speaker 2: And they're real mysteries. Like he's not just making stuff up, No,

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Speaker 2: he's reading.

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Speaker 1: Them from like this is from uh, this article written

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Speaker 1: by so and so, and he'll just read it. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and so, you know, the whole podcast is I'm reading articles.

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Speaker 1: But in the beginning he's like, I found this one,

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Speaker 1: I found that one, and I'll save some of them

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Speaker 1: because I'm like, well, I want to listen to this

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Speaker 1: when I'm awake because it's really interesting.

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Speaker 2: Does it affect your dreams? Do you ever have that?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? But then I'm ready to fall asleep in the

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Speaker 1: car when I'm like listening to the episode of like

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Speaker 1: that's about you know this person who disappeared? If I

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Speaker 1: have unexplained disappearances.

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Speaker 2: And then your eyes are just suddenly getting heavy. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: you hypnotize yourself with mystery.

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Speaker 1: And then I put my sleep apma mask on. How

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Speaker 1: did this skin my car?

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Speaker 2: Hey? What the whole thing is just And then suddenly

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Speaker 2: you're in seventh grade and you have to take a test. No,

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Speaker 2: this is the worst. My thing was I always had

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Speaker 2: My dream was always I had to go back and

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Speaker 2: I'd be like thirty five and I'd have to go

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Speaker 2: back to high school and play a softball game, and

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Speaker 2: I'd be like, you, guys, this is a this isn't

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Speaker 2: fair because I'm old and b I can't, I won't

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Speaker 2: be good, Like why are you making me do this?

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Speaker 2: Trying to reason with everybody, and they're just like, come on.

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Speaker 1: When you have to do something in your dream that

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Speaker 1: you really don't want to do, you could get out

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Speaker 1: of in real life by saying you, you know, have

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Speaker 1: a headache. Yeah, fuck this, I have a high the headache.

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Speaker 2: Fuck this forward slash. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It's just like I feel like, up until you were eighteen,

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Speaker 1: you just had such a such little control over your

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Speaker 1: life and we're still getting over it. And like when

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Speaker 1: I realized when I was like, had my first job

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Speaker 1: at fifteen, and I walked into the candy out and

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Speaker 1: I was like, I don't have to ask anyone if

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Speaker 1: I could buy any fucking I could gorge myself on

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Speaker 1: candy right now.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was really freeing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I did because it was your money. It

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Speaker 2: is my money to do whatever you want.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, I was there alone because you know, my

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Speaker 1: parents neglected me.

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Speaker 2: For a second. I thought you met you worked at

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Speaker 2: that place, so you were like, you worked at the

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Speaker 2: place where you could get the thing you wanted.

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Speaker 1: I worked at a place and had money to get

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Speaker 1: the thing I wanted. Yeah, but then when I worked

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Speaker 1: in a bakery, yes, I would fucking accidentally break a

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Speaker 1: ton of cookies.

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Speaker 2: Oh man, I worked at the coffee shop once that

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Speaker 2: made the best oatmeal chocolate chip.

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Speaker 1: Cookies, or those like you know, those like Chantilly almond

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Speaker 1: cookies that are like what are those called Florentines?

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Speaker 2: Yes, the ones that are shaped like that they have

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Speaker 2: at Starbucks, that are shaped like shells circular.

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Speaker 1: No, that's a Madeline shit. I mean, I'll leave any

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Speaker 1: fucking cookie that's good to it.

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Speaker 2: But a florentine is what like?

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Speaker 1: Is it like crackly thin? Like?

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Speaker 2: Does it have sugar on the top?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 2: Does it? Does it have a face? Its own face?

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Speaker 1: No, you're thinking of one of those clown ice.

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Speaker 2: Cream Oh that's right, that's right, a clown ice cream

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Speaker 2: from baskt Rob.

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Speaker 1: Yes, there it is, Stephen. Is that what they're called quarantine?

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Speaker 2: Dude?

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Speaker 1: Yes, kind crisp thin almondy one. It's like almond and

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Speaker 1: maybe like something like caramel, says the girl who fucking

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Speaker 1: worked in baking for seven years of her life. It

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Speaker 1: must be caramel, yeah, because they're chewy or is it

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Speaker 1: like a brown sugar?

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Speaker 2: Sounds screaming now, I'm making weird salive a noise. Like

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Speaker 2: they have these Trader Josh.

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Speaker 1: And they're half dipped in chocolate, yes the bottom. So

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Speaker 1: I can't buy those because I'll fucking eat them all.

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Speaker 2: Same here my dad started buying those.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I know, Steven Stephen showing me and I'm like, honey.

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Speaker 2: Steven started to pass the pictures around. Look, honey, don't

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Speaker 2: show me a picture of the thing I've eaten one thousand.

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Speaker 1: Listen, don't show me anything. Can I introduce this this saying.

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Speaker 2: Don't show me anything?

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Speaker 1: And now this is another thing I say all the

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Speaker 1: time that nobody knows what it means except for me,

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Speaker 1: and I think it's hilarious. Is there was this j

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Speaker 1: Lo documentary quote documentary when like on VH one, when

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Speaker 1: she was like making her clothing line for the first

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Speaker 1: time and like early two thousands, and someone shows her

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Speaker 1: this gene thing and she's like, I don't like it,

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Speaker 1: and they're like, well, this is it, We've already manufactured,

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Speaker 1: and she goes, don't show me nothing. I can't change, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: show me nothing, Like why are you? And then why

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Speaker 1: are you showing this to me? And so sometimes she's like,

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Speaker 1: don't show me anything I can't change. Please, that's right.

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Speaker 1: Won't show me nothing I can't change.

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Speaker 2: That's I love her. Oh sorry, I loved Jack.

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Speaker 1: What a bitch. And you know, and you could see

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Speaker 1: the girl who was like fresh out of fucking fit,

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Speaker 1: fresh out of like fashion design college, just having an

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Speaker 1: interor meltdown.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's a serious mistake. And it's like, oh, but

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Speaker 2: we've already made fifty thousand.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but this is what you said you wanted. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she's like, but now that the cameras are rolling

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Speaker 1: it to seem like you're the boss.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well and also you got a double check and

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Speaker 2: maybe triple check that she did.

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Speaker 1: I bet you she did, think so, I think she did.

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Speaker 2: I'd love the behind the scenes.

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Speaker 1: Uh, it's like the fake behind the scenes and the

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Speaker 1: real behind the scenes would be.

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Speaker 2: Just I mean, anyways, that's the show people actually want

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Speaker 2: to see.

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Speaker 1: Uh huh. Yes, the footage of the footage that.

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Speaker 2: Wasn't the footage that explains the behavior.

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Speaker 1: That's what we'll have if we ever have it doc

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Speaker 1: You just like ram.

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Speaker 2: No holds barred, every single every single thing showed.

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Speaker 1: Karen, your hair looks great, and then be going why

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Speaker 1: does Karen's hair look better for.

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Speaker 2: Night fired fired hired. Then you hire somebody that doesn't

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Speaker 2: do hair. No, here, it's to prove a point. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: and you get them in there they do hair better

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Speaker 2: than the person I have. Then, so then I lure

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Speaker 2: your person a welling.

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Speaker 1: God, melt down. Fuck, this is good. Then I fucking

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Speaker 1: shaved my head just to be like, oh yeah.

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Speaker 2: Well, and that puts you in all the papers. You

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Speaker 2: get the most publicity.

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Speaker 1: It's just all I want in life.

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Speaker 2: God, this is Stephen. You're writing this down right, This

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Speaker 2: is the point. Oh, it's being recorded.

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Speaker 1: We don't wait for recording. Wait a second, Okay, do

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Speaker 1: you want to do you want news? I can do

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Speaker 1: news corner. I wrote some stuff down. Some of it's

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Speaker 1: not that great news corner about a crime thing.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do it?

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Speaker 1: Okay. So, uh, this was so hard for me not

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Speaker 1: to tell you at the airport when we were on

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Speaker 1: our way home from uh Austin, Oh, because I read

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Speaker 1: it and I was like, this is so in Massachusetts

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Speaker 1: a crime lab. This woman named Annie Duke can was

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Speaker 1: a restored for mishandling sixty thousand samples of it was

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Speaker 1: a drug crime lab. She like tested sixty thousand samples,

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Speaker 1: and she mishandled them for thirty four thousand defendants. One

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Speaker 1: hundred and forty of those people were inmates because of

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Speaker 1: her mishandling. Oh so they have to let twenty three

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Speaker 1: convicted people convicted got their sentences over to No.

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Speaker 2: Are they convicted of drug crimes? Yes, So that doesn't

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Speaker 2: bother me that much that.

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Speaker 1: They're convicted of drum crimes or they're they're to let go,

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Speaker 1: and I agree, And then they're keeping the people who

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Speaker 1: also had violent you know, it wasn't just a drug crime.

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Speaker 1: It was like a violent felony added onto that. They're

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Speaker 1: retrying those people. Fuck, so these twenty three thousand people,

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Speaker 1: twenty thousand o them, let's say, who were like I

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Speaker 1: had an ounce of weed in my pocket, you know

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Speaker 1: what I mean. Yeah, they're like, oh, well it wasn't weed,

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Speaker 1: it was a regano. But this chick Annie like fucked

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Speaker 1: it up purposely, really purposely. She was trying to put

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Speaker 1: people away. She was trying to be the top dog

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Speaker 1: and look how great I am at this job, and

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Speaker 1: like have the most convictions and like, but she was

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Speaker 1: just and all the people who worked with her were

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Speaker 1: like this isn't right, And the people who were her

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Speaker 1: boss were like, no, this is great. Oh so they're

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Speaker 1: trying to get an oversight on at crime Labs.

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Speaker 2: Now there's the new that's the TV movie I want

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Speaker 2: to see. But it reminds me of the story that

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Speaker 2: I told you last week of the body that was

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Speaker 2: found in the car with the Uber sticker on it.

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Speaker 2: And then a bunch of people wrote to us and

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Speaker 2: said was it because you know, Kuba Gooden Junior's father

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Speaker 2: was found dead in a car, but the guy in

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Speaker 2: the car that I read about was in his thirties

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Speaker 2: and so it's not the same. A bunch of people

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Speaker 2: were saying, what if this is what if this is the.

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Speaker 1: Thing, but COVID coatings Junior could his dad. That's what

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Speaker 1: I don't know. That happened.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it happened the same day. And that's why a

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Speaker 2: bunch of people were writing to us.

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Speaker 1: That's insane.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I have one more thing about podcasts. I'm not saying

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Speaker 1: like you're.

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Speaker 2: You're going back to podcast recommendation because.

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Speaker 1: And we both need to listen to this. This week, Fresh

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Speaker 1: Air has an interview with a woman who was a

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Speaker 1: doctor at Bellevue Hospital with mentally ill inmates for ten years.

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Speaker 2: Dude, I saw somebody tweeted that to us, and I

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Speaker 2: saw there is an amazing America Undercover, which used to

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Speaker 2: be an HBO series A Day in the Life at

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Speaker 2: Bellevue that we watched. This was in the nineties and

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Speaker 2: talked about four months afterwards because it's so disturbing, it's unbelievable,

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Speaker 2: but it's also just that life to be a doctor.

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Speaker 2: I mean, that's what my mom did for a living.

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Speaker 2: So like to also watch it and just be like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: this is your day to day.

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Speaker 1: It's so intense and you like, you know everything is wrong,

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Speaker 1: but if you leave, it's just gonna get wronger because

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Speaker 1: you're a good person trying to help, so like you

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Speaker 1: can't really take yourself out of it because you feel

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Speaker 1: like you need to try to do something to help.

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Speaker 2: Well. Yeah, and most of those people have an incredible

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Speaker 2: obviously like thick skin, but like they're not gonna quit.

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Speaker 2: That's not that's not it there. They just like get

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Speaker 2: stronger and tougher as the insanity grows around. I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's it's so intense. I would love to hear that

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Speaker 2: interview too.

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Speaker 1: It's just crazy the way mental mental illness was treated

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Speaker 1: back then in a way that is horrifying to watch

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Speaker 1: that documentary.

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Speaker 2: It's yeah, yeah, well that just made me think of

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Speaker 2: something else. Oh, I want you and I together? Can

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Speaker 2: we please promise to watch Casting Joen Benet together? Absolutely,

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Speaker 2: it's this Sunday.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Okay, can I come over because there's a wrestling

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Speaker 1: thing that Vince's girl? Yes, watching here?

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Speaker 2: We can do it from my house. Okay, so good.

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Speaker 2: Then Casting Jambrenet is on the books Real Time Feelings.

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Speaker 1: Definitely do we live tweet or is that going too far?

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Speaker 2: Sure we could live tweet it.

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Speaker 1: Let's do it? My favorite going too far?

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Speaker 2: Or have we truly crossed the line this time?

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Speaker 1: My favorite murder on Twitter? Is what we are on Twitter?

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Speaker 1: It's what we are. It's who we it's.

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Speaker 2: Who we've it's who we've lived as so long now,

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Speaker 2: it's our identity, it's our spirit.

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Speaker 1: Go ahead, Uh, I'm done.

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Speaker 2: No, No, we want to talk about those cards that

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Speaker 2: we got.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, present corner. Everything may have to be

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Speaker 1: a corner. I need to stop it.

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Speaker 2: We're recording in the daytime today and it's got a

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Speaker 2: real I feel like we're really forced to analyze ourselves

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Speaker 2: on this episode, we're really there's a lot of shoegazing,

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Speaker 2: a lot of internal uh analysis.

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Speaker 1: In the light of day, this podcast looks real different.

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Speaker 1: There's no there's no Stephen doesn't have a beer. I

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Speaker 1: don't have wine.

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Speaker 2: Everyone's pores are really big.

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Speaker 1: Oh and the reason we're not recording from yesterday and

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Speaker 1: in the evening is because one of my biggest fears

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Speaker 1: in the fucking world happened, which is that a fucking

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Speaker 1: big rig jumped the center Divideruck. Is that true came

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Speaker 1: into oncoming traffic, which is like a big fucking yeah.

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Speaker 1: Like I know when you're going like eighty in the

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Speaker 1: fast lane and the center divider is like a brick. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, any person could just jump over. I

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Speaker 1: picture it happening.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well it did happen.

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Speaker 1: Did happen out like down the street from both.

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Speaker 2: Of us, Yeah, so it basically between our houses it happened.

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Speaker 2: And then Steven texts and is like, oh no, like

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Speaker 2: all these exits are closed, I can't get anywhere near

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Speaker 2: your house. And immediately I'm like, oh, well, should we rescheduled?

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Speaker 2: Just immediately, like okay, let's reschedule. Hy bye, bye, cancel,

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Speaker 2: cancel the house today. I love to cancel. Okay, So anyway,

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Speaker 2: we uh, Georgia put this on Instagram. We got these

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Speaker 2: cards in the mail that are the most amazing greeting

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Speaker 2: cards and they are there's a hand drawn and they're

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00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:05,000
Speaker 2: like just basically illustration. You know, what do you call

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Speaker 2: those pen and ink or something?

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Speaker 1: Pen and ink?

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Speaker 2: Is that redundant? Inc I feel like pen and ink

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00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,040
Speaker 2: is a term, but I can't be wrong, But anyway, sketches. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: they're like it's a drawing. So it's like a picture

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Speaker 2: of John Wayne Gacy and then it says who ordered

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Speaker 2: the birthday clown?

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Speaker 1: Or the Stephen King? The Ted Bundy one I love,

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Speaker 1: it's you know it's and it's a portrait of an

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Speaker 1: actual photo of them that you've seen before, and it says,

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Speaker 1: does anyone want to help me carry these birthday presents

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Speaker 1: to my cards?

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Speaker 2: And then that one that Ted Bundy eyes are nuts?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, they're great. And then the one of

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00:19:40,240 --> 00:19:43,080
Speaker 1: Richard Ramirez holding his hand up in court, which usually

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Speaker 1: has a pentagram on it, but instead it what does

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Speaker 1: it say is happy birthday, which is like, okay, it's

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00:19:50,359 --> 00:19:53,159
Speaker 1: it might cross a line. Somewhere, but it's like horrifying

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Speaker 1: serial killers that you know are big in the society

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Speaker 1: and we all know. So I don't think it's like.

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Speaker 2: No, it's just references. It's like you've seen his picture

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Speaker 2: a thousand times now it's a birthday card.

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Speaker 1: And then okay, on top of that two things, he

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Speaker 1: wrote a note with it in the style to us

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Speaker 1: in the style of the Zodiac Killer, including saying at

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Speaker 1: the end like, hey, I hope you like these blah

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00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:15,600
Speaker 1: blah blah. I shot a man sitting in a parked

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Speaker 1: car with a thirty eight like reading at the end,

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Speaker 1: and then it says John John twelve s fpds like

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Speaker 1: it's got all the characteristics of Zodiac And then so

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00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:29,320
Speaker 1: you can go to etsy dot com slash shop and

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00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:32,640
Speaker 1: the name of his Etsy is depressive ghoule gho. You well,

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00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:37,440
Speaker 1: but it came to my house, your house house, which

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Speaker 1: is my home.

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00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 2: Just so I uh, unsettling. I brought this package to

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00:20:43,840 --> 00:20:47,280
Speaker 2: Stephen and Georgia when we were recording ads last Friday,

441
00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:53,560
Speaker 2: and I said, let's open this together. But just so

442
00:20:53,640 --> 00:20:55,120
Speaker 2: you know, this got sent to my house.

443
00:20:55,320 --> 00:20:57,960
Speaker 3: And then you know, Karen is fiercely private, so I'm

444
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:00,359
Speaker 3: just like my dog's fiercely private and so so it

445
00:21:00,440 --> 00:21:02,520
Speaker 3: was a little scary, but then they were so funny

446
00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:04,480
Speaker 3: that we weren't that scared anymore because we were just

447
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:06,600
Speaker 3: laughing and kind of like going, can I have this one?

448
00:21:06,640 --> 00:21:07,359
Speaker 2: I want this one?

449
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:09,480
Speaker 1: No one that clever. There's even a Mother's Day one

450
00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:11,919
Speaker 1: from like ed Gean, Yes, like no one that clever

451
00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:13,960
Speaker 1: can be dangerous or they are.

452
00:21:14,160 --> 00:21:16,760
Speaker 2: It's like all right, And meanwhile we're looking at pictures,

453
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:19,360
Speaker 2: all pictures of people who are that clever and that dangerous.

454
00:21:19,440 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 2: But we're so good so anyway, so Georgia puts it

455
00:21:22,320 --> 00:21:24,280
Speaker 2: we love them so much. Georgia puts it on Instagram.

456
00:21:24,280 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 2: Blah blah blah. Then two days later I get a

457
00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:31,200
Speaker 2: DM from my Twitter friend John Fryler, and he writes, Hey,

458
00:21:31,800 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 2: I'm glad you like those cards. It seems like people

459
00:21:34,359 --> 00:21:36,520
Speaker 2: on Instagram are mad at me for sending them to

460
00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:40,080
Speaker 2: your house, though, and then I realize that this I

461
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,879
Speaker 2: know this person, and he asked me. He was like,

462
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:44,720
Speaker 2: I think he tried to send them to the po

463
00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:46,560
Speaker 2: box and they got sent back. So I just gave

464
00:21:46,640 --> 00:21:49,679
Speaker 2: him my home dress. My friend John Fryler, who is

465
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,280
Speaker 2: he He's a guy I know on Twitter and basically

466
00:21:52,320 --> 00:21:54,119
Speaker 2: I've known him for It's just that where he was like,

467
00:21:54,160 --> 00:21:56,040
Speaker 2: I love your podcast, Can I send you this thing?

468
00:21:56,119 --> 00:21:59,240
Speaker 1: Did you have any idea how fucking talented this human? No?

469
00:21:59,320 --> 00:22:01,040
Speaker 2: I had no idea how talented he was, and I

470
00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:06,320
Speaker 2: had absolutely no memory of the conversation whatsoever until he

471
00:22:06,359 --> 00:22:09,840
Speaker 2: basically was scared because Murderinos were like, hey, motherfucker, leave

472
00:22:09,880 --> 00:22:13,280
Speaker 2: them alone. No, yes, and so he was basically coming

473
00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:14,159
Speaker 2: back with funny.

474
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't truly think someone was gonna come

475
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:17,840
Speaker 1: attack you.

476
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,320
Speaker 2: No, I know, but I think it's that thing of

477
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,720
Speaker 2: like they don't want to be represented that way of

478
00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,600
Speaker 2: like yeah we're not Yeah, we don't want to be

479
00:22:23,640 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 2: creeps to you, So don't be a creep to them.

480
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:29,080
Speaker 2: And he's like, hey, guess what. Everybody I wasn't like.

481
00:22:29,119 --> 00:22:30,960
Speaker 1: We tried to give him a boost to like sell

482
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,719
Speaker 1: his cards, and they're like, fuck you. It turned on him.

483
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:38,560
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, John. Everything about your package was amazing, amazing.

484
00:22:38,600 --> 00:22:41,480
Speaker 1: I was gonna give my mom what's the Mother's day?

485
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:45,880
Speaker 1: Other Mother's Day one I can't remember, edgean and then

486
00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:47,479
Speaker 1: something else, and I was like, I'm going to get

487
00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:50,480
Speaker 1: this to my mom, just to horrify her for her

488
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:54,840
Speaker 1: Mother's Day. Ed Kemper the co ed killer and staid

489
00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:56,399
Speaker 1: the thing, it's so funny, Ed.

490
00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,000
Speaker 2: Kemper, he really did not like his mother. No, So anyway,

491
00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:03,760
Speaker 2: those are amazing and hilarious and that whole story. If

492
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,000
Speaker 2: he hadn't written to me forever, I would have been

493
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:08,000
Speaker 2: just a little bit worried. In the back of my mind.

494
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:10,840
Speaker 1: You'd hear crunk leaves at night. Yeah.

495
00:23:10,880 --> 00:23:13,399
Speaker 2: But also what's funny is I was like, Oh, we

496
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,600
Speaker 2: talked about that six months ago, and then I checked

497
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:19,920
Speaker 2: it was like a month ago. Horrifying. Oh we're good, horrifying,

498
00:23:20,000 --> 00:23:24,399
Speaker 2: We're good. Also, Uh, this is just the anecdote I

499
00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,960
Speaker 2: wanted to tell you. The other day, April and I

500
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,360
Speaker 2: were at our pre where we do our show hangout

501
00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 2: and I went to the bathroom and I was standing

502
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:37,920
Speaker 2: there and there's a woman that was waiting and she's like, sorry,

503
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,760
Speaker 2: there's somebody in there, and they're taking a really long time.

504
00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:42,399
Speaker 2: And we stood there for five full minutes.

505
00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:43,520
Speaker 1: Are you a knocker? I'm a knocker.

506
00:23:43,520 --> 00:23:45,680
Speaker 2: I have a full arm knocker and a rage knocker.

507
00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:47,080
Speaker 2: So I was just like, get the fuck out of there.

508
00:23:47,240 --> 00:23:47,840
Speaker 1: Three minutes.

509
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:51,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, so that's what you have. Finally a guy comes

510
00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: out of the men's room and then the woman there,

511
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,359
Speaker 2: another girl came and was waiting behind me, and we

512
00:23:56,359 --> 00:23:58,320
Speaker 2: were both like, just he's the men's room. They're singles

513
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:00,840
Speaker 2: for sure. So she goes in there. The girl behind

514
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,240
Speaker 2: me steps up to like, wait, so now she's second

515
00:24:03,240 --> 00:24:04,800
Speaker 2: in line or whatever, and she looks and goes, oh

516
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:06,600
Speaker 2: my god, I was just listening to your podcast whatever.

517
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:08,760
Speaker 2: So we have a moment. Her name was Mia, I

518
00:24:08,800 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: believe from what I remember. We have a moment, chit

519
00:24:11,880 --> 00:24:14,200
Speaker 2: chat whatever. And then we're just and I knock again

520
00:24:14,600 --> 00:24:18,320
Speaker 2: the whole thing and does anyone respond no? And I

521
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,720
Speaker 2: was like, I was like, nice, we need to get

522
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,240
Speaker 2: a waitress over here. I go, I bet someone's passed

523
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:26,879
Speaker 2: out on the toilet. Well, finally Mia steps up and

524
00:24:26,920 --> 00:24:30,439
Speaker 2: tries the door knob and it's open. We were standing

525
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,199
Speaker 2: there for I'm not kidding, like almost ten minutes with

526
00:24:33,320 --> 00:24:36,760
Speaker 2: an empty, unlocked bathroom door, just standing there.

527
00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,440
Speaker 1: Oh my god, and like, and you got angry out

528
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: of it, you know what I mean.

529
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:41,439
Speaker 2: I was mad twice.

530
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:43,600
Speaker 1: Oh my god. When the other girl came out of

531
00:24:43,640 --> 00:24:46,360
Speaker 1: the men's room where you're like, listen, bitch.

532
00:24:46,480 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: No, that was she was like coming gone, but when

533
00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:52,480
Speaker 2: she opened it, I just yelled dude in her face

534
00:24:52,520 --> 00:24:54,720
Speaker 2: and walked it like it was the funniest moment. It

535
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 2: was really fun. It was a fun moment. Hi, Hi

536
00:24:57,680 --> 00:24:59,199
Speaker 2: to you. I hope your name was Mia, because I'm

537
00:24:59,200 --> 00:24:59,879
Speaker 2: pretty sure it was.

538
00:25:01,240 --> 00:25:05,120
Speaker 1: That's good, man. People need to We were talking about

539
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:07,879
Speaker 1: at live shows, and I'm fucking a big fan of

540
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 1: this because it's like seventy percent women that before the

541
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,119
Speaker 1: show starts and there's like Vince goes out to like

542
00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:16,840
Speaker 1: look around and he's like, there's the craziest line in

543
00:25:16,840 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: the women's restroom. And I know that in on the

544
00:25:19,359 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: weekends at the Ferry Building in San Francisco, they'll close

545
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,280
Speaker 1: one of the men's room two women only, and they're like, men,

546
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:28,919
Speaker 1: go upstairs and use the bathroom because there's five of you,

547
00:25:29,160 --> 00:25:31,120
Speaker 1: and they turn the men's room into a one's room,

548
00:25:31,119 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: which I think is so fucking forward thinking and so

549
00:25:34,480 --> 00:25:37,920
Speaker 1: fucking awesome, and I appreciate it very much, and I

550
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:39,439
Speaker 1: think we should. I think some of the places we

551
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,560
Speaker 1: do shows do that already, but I think we should

552
00:25:42,560 --> 00:25:44,560
Speaker 1: all do that you're just staring at me. Do you

553
00:25:44,600 --> 00:25:45,040
Speaker 1: not agree?

554
00:25:45,160 --> 00:25:47,320
Speaker 2: No, I don't know. I'm just thinking of all that,

555
00:25:48,080 --> 00:25:52,440
Speaker 2: the bathroom politics that people. I mean, it just immediately

556
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,480
Speaker 2: put me in that place of like, oh, all the

557
00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 2: people that are like and then the people that will

558
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: go into the room and all that shit where it's like, no,

559
00:25:58,960 --> 00:26:01,720
Speaker 2: that's not a real thing. Yeah, just pee, that's not Yeah,

560
00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:04,359
Speaker 2: it's a public place, You're fine, And yeah it should be.

561
00:26:04,760 --> 00:26:07,159
Speaker 2: It should be dictated by the numbers. Like have you

562
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:09,800
Speaker 2: ever seen there's a really funny picture of the women's

563
00:26:09,840 --> 00:26:13,920
Speaker 2: restroom line at a Rush concert. It's like no one

564
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:14,439
Speaker 2: there at all.

565
00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:17,480
Speaker 1: Oh my god. It's same question. And I'm not asking

566
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,320
Speaker 1: for myself necessarily, But if you're in a public restaurant

567
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,359
Speaker 1: it's pretty you know, sizable at the airport and you're peeing,

568
00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:26,120
Speaker 1: is a public restroom and okay place to fart?

569
00:26:27,119 --> 00:26:30,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's the only place, okay, because sometimes

570
00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:31,760
Speaker 2: I'm like societally acceptable.

571
00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:34,040
Speaker 1: I mean, it's they can still hear it just as

572
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,439
Speaker 1: loudly as if you were at the sink, but.

573
00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,280
Speaker 2: They can't see your face. That's all that matters, right, good,

574
00:26:39,560 --> 00:26:42,840
Speaker 2: it's all about shame. Yeah, just do it where you can't.

575
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:45,760
Speaker 1: I mean, especially at the airport. Jesus Christ. Everyone has

576
00:26:45,800 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: gas at the airport.

577
00:26:46,720 --> 00:26:47,440
Speaker 2: Gotta do it.

578
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:51,440
Speaker 1: Airport is fit. That's how the planes fly. They're fueled

579
00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:57,800
Speaker 1: on everyone's gas from airport food, too much alcohol, nine

580
00:26:58,160 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: bottles of water.

581
00:26:59,040 --> 00:27:01,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, nerves, nerves, fear you're gonna get dragged off the

582
00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:02,679
Speaker 2: plane for no reason.

583
00:27:02,880 --> 00:27:06,880
Speaker 1: Constipation from massive pharmaceuticals. Oh, just to get the anxiety away.

584
00:27:07,119 --> 00:27:10,119
Speaker 2: I never thought about that. There's so many more pharmaceuticals

585
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:12,680
Speaker 2: at the airport. Yeah, I just didn't think.

586
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:13,560
Speaker 1: I didn't neither.

587
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 2: That's exactly right, dude, have you ever seen that? And

588
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 2: we'll get it then we'll get onto business skippers. Have

589
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:27,240
Speaker 2: you ever seen that? I can't. It's not night vision,

590
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:30,560
Speaker 2: but it's like heat vision footage of a guy that farts.

591
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 2: Oh no, I didn't like those so funny.

592
00:27:34,359 --> 00:27:36,040
Speaker 1: You don't like it because they do it for people

593
00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:37,479
Speaker 1: walking on the street, not people who know.

594
00:27:37,720 --> 00:27:39,840
Speaker 2: Right, that's exactly right. But they don't show the person.

595
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:42,600
Speaker 2: It's just the torso down. Yeah, but they just show

596
00:27:42,760 --> 00:27:44,600
Speaker 2: so you can actually see what it looks like when

597
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 2: someone farts. This like the cloud. It's the funniest thing

598
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: I've ever seen.

599
00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:51,760
Speaker 1: I hate it. And it reminds me of when people

600
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:54,439
Speaker 1: would tell the kids that if you pee in the pool,

601
00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:56,560
Speaker 1: like there's a die and it will make it show

602
00:27:56,640 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: up green. And so it's not true, but you're terrified.

603
00:27:59,720 --> 00:28:02,119
Speaker 1: It's just reminds me of that where it's like shame

604
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:03,720
Speaker 1: right on top of you.

605
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:07,760
Speaker 2: That's right, Yeah, it's shaming you coming out of you human. Yes,

606
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:13,160
Speaker 2: although peanupool is a human Peina pool's enjoyable, it's I.

607
00:28:13,119 --> 00:28:15,480
Speaker 1: Mean, you got to expect some level of pean a pool.

608
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:19,920
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, especially with children, but also because if you're

609
00:28:19,920 --> 00:28:21,600
Speaker 2: in a warm enough pool, it's kind of like that

610
00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 2: trick where you put your hand someone's sleeping hand in

611
00:28:23,960 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: a glass to make them look the better. But you're

612
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:27,919
Speaker 2: in a pool, it's like that same feeling.

613
00:28:28,040 --> 00:28:30,879
Speaker 1: But it's so it's so hard to get yourself to

614
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,000
Speaker 1: peana pool. Like to start, you're not supposed to be

615
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,840
Speaker 1: free leaping, You're not supposed to be like this is

616
00:28:36,880 --> 00:28:39,640
Speaker 1: against societal norms. You got like train not to do

617
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: this when you were too.

618
00:28:41,200 --> 00:28:44,520
Speaker 2: Yes, that's true, do it, but if other people are

619
00:28:44,520 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: in the pool, that's gross.

620
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:49,760
Speaker 1: And then what if you had vitamins that day.

621
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:53,160
Speaker 2: People are swimming there, like this pool water tastes weird.

622
00:28:53,840 --> 00:28:56,520
Speaker 1: No, but I have that yellow I love that yellow pee.

623
00:28:56,600 --> 00:29:00,000
Speaker 1: When you take vitamins yeah, and you're just like, oh fuck.

624
00:28:59,840 --> 00:29:02,520
Speaker 2: It looks like you were in Chernobyl. And then you're like, oh, no,

625
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:03,400
Speaker 2: that's a vitamin B.

626
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:05,760
Speaker 1: Yeah. Everything beats and your pea is red.

627
00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:08,040
Speaker 2: Oh I've never had that happen. You're like, oh.

628
00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 1: God, I'm bleeding from my pee and then you're like, over,

629
00:29:10,640 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 1: oh wait, a beats yesterday seriously, Oh I went to

630
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:23,440
Speaker 1: see plantation and we are back.

631
00:29:24,720 --> 00:29:26,440
Speaker 2: Oh. We just can't talk about this enough.

632
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,800
Speaker 1: It's the citing sources issue that we learned our lesson

633
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:31,320
Speaker 1: in last episode.

634
00:29:31,680 --> 00:29:34,040
Speaker 2: Like every lesson that we've learned on this podcast, we

635
00:29:34,120 --> 00:29:36,760
Speaker 2: learn it publicly, and we learn it with a lot

636
00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,760
Speaker 2: of hostility coming from the other side. This guy wordy

637
00:29:40,160 --> 00:29:44,080
Speaker 2: fucking pissed. It was crazy. Also, it was that kind

638
00:29:44,160 --> 00:29:47,840
Speaker 2: of thing where it's an interesting way to mark time

639
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:53,040
Speaker 2: because I was using Twitter as like a comedian and

640
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:55,800
Speaker 2: a person who is just trying to post jokes, and

641
00:29:55,840 --> 00:29:57,800
Speaker 2: this is around the time I was like, I can't

642
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,440
Speaker 2: use Twitter in the same way anymore. It was mostly

643
00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:03,080
Speaker 2: because I can't. You know, my favorite joke is telling

644
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:06,560
Speaker 2: people to shut up and seeing their reaction. They didn't

645
00:30:06,600 --> 00:30:06,880
Speaker 2: like that.

646
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:10,880
Speaker 1: Do you think, like twenty seventeen, a male journalist coming

647
00:30:11,120 --> 00:30:16,240
Speaker 1: after you publicly in that way is like cool.

648
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:19,480
Speaker 2: It wasn't a cool experience. But I have to say

649
00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:22,680
Speaker 2: he was right. I mean, there's no arguing the fact

650
00:30:22,680 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 2: that the combination of things where it's like it looked

651
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,360
Speaker 2: intentional that I didn't credit Gary Bowman until the end

652
00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:33,160
Speaker 2: of the episode for just a like basically a poll quote.

653
00:30:33,680 --> 00:30:35,920
Speaker 2: So I did it wrong, and like that's that. And

654
00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,640
Speaker 2: this is kind of the risk that we are always

655
00:30:39,760 --> 00:30:43,880
Speaker 2: against because you always do stuff wrong and like that's

656
00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,920
Speaker 2: fine as long as you go oh, and I think

657
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,880
Speaker 2: this is kind of like how we did it from

658
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 2: the beginning. It's like, you know, saying prostitute because that

659
00:30:52,680 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 2: was what was in the article, and people writing in

660
00:30:54,600 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 2: and being like can you please say sex worker? Yes

661
00:30:56,920 --> 00:31:00,080
Speaker 2: we can. It's not that big of a deal to

662
00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 2: say you did something wrong totally. So it was very

663
00:31:03,560 --> 00:31:07,320
Speaker 2: jolting and alarming to have a guy like yelling at

664
00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:08,960
Speaker 2: me and then I was like, okay, I'll fix It's

665
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,040
Speaker 2: like that's not enough or whatever, where I'm just like, well,

666
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,400
Speaker 2: I'm not in a fight with you. Was aggressive, I

667
00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 2: don't know you, but happy to fix it, want to

668
00:31:16,880 --> 00:31:20,800
Speaker 2: fix it. And certainly I think it's interesting because that is,

669
00:31:20,960 --> 00:31:23,520
Speaker 2: you know, the guy that did it is basically responsible

670
00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,560
Speaker 2: for the way we now always make sure to cite

671
00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 2: sources at the top of the page.

672
00:31:28,080 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 1: Ye, because you know what I mean, we totally do.

673
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, and no one, I mean we said it before,

674
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,520
Speaker 2: but it's like, no one thinks he fucking wrote these things. No,

675
00:31:35,520 --> 00:31:36,680
Speaker 2: no one believes.

676
00:31:36,320 --> 00:31:40,160
Speaker 1: He didn't investigate now these pieces ourselves in a week.

677
00:31:40,520 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: No. But it's also great to be able to start

678
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,280
Speaker 2: naming the people who did the hard work. So it's

679
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,040
Speaker 2: like we can only talk about this because Gary Baum

680
00:31:49,120 --> 00:31:50,160
Speaker 2: went out there and did the work.

681
00:31:50,200 --> 00:31:52,640
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love that. Yeah, in a different world we

682
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:56,720
Speaker 1: would be investigative journalists. But that's too much college.

683
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, I just I don't think me as an owl

684
00:32:00,000 --> 00:32:02,360
Speaker 2: alcoholic I would have been able to do it in

685
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: a way. Yeah, but the beginning part. Couldn't do the

686
00:32:05,800 --> 00:32:07,000
Speaker 2: you know, school.

687
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: Same or work with depression and anxiety. Yeah, no, nothing,

688
00:32:10,520 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: not when my bet is calling.

689
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,520
Speaker 2: But thank you, Gary Baum did it yeah.

690
00:32:13,720 --> 00:32:18,680
Speaker 1: Oh one quick corrections corner. I refer to the host

691
00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: of the podcast that I fall asleep to. Back then

692
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:25,120
Speaker 1: it's called Mysteries Abound, And I say it was a

693
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,560
Speaker 1: British Man because back then the podcast has done something

694
00:32:28,560 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 1: for me too. Where I now can hear the difference

695
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:35,560
Speaker 1: between British, Australian and New Zealand accents? Yep, but I

696
00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,640
Speaker 1: couldn't then, and I called Jim Moon British. He's actually

697
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:42,720
Speaker 1: Australian and I missed that podcast so much. Mystery doesn't

698
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,560
Speaker 1: make so good. He doesn't do new ones anymore and

699
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:47,040
Speaker 1: ended in October twenty nineteen, but you can still hear

700
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:48,680
Speaker 1: the old episodes.

701
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: He has such a soothing ASMR voice.

702
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, he's talking about mysterious things like how quickly do

703
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:55,880
Speaker 1: you want to fall asleep?

704
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 2: When you think of that, it's great, yeah, because you

705
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,400
Speaker 2: start kind of imagining things and then suddenly your plane

706
00:33:00,480 --> 00:33:02,080
Speaker 2: rides over. You're fine, amazing.

707
00:33:02,800 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: And there's some updates in the Anni Dukean misconduct case

708
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:09,720
Speaker 1: that we talked about, which led to the largest dismissal

709
00:33:09,760 --> 00:33:13,719
Speaker 1: of wrongful convictions in US history. So by twenty nineteen,

710
00:33:13,760 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 1: more than sixty one thousand drug convictions had to be

711
00:33:17,800 --> 00:33:21,080
Speaker 1: thrown out because the evidence couldn't be trusted in sane.

712
00:33:21,520 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: It's one of the biggest cleanups of wrongful convictions in

713
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: US history. In twenty twenty one, the state's highest court

714
00:33:27,880 --> 00:33:30,640
Speaker 1: erase one hundred more convictions, saying it wouldn't be fair

715
00:33:30,680 --> 00:33:33,440
Speaker 1: to make people go through new trials after the huge mistakes.

716
00:33:33,800 --> 00:33:36,920
Speaker 1: Imagine those people who had been in prison because this

717
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,959
Speaker 1: woman wanted to be better at convicting than other people.

718
00:33:41,040 --> 00:33:43,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's happened a lot. I think there's for sure.

719
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:45,600
Speaker 2: She's just people caught getting into that position. Yeah.

720
00:33:45,680 --> 00:33:48,920
Speaker 1: Right. In twenty twenty four, legal experts said this case

721
00:33:49,040 --> 00:33:51,720
Speaker 1: set an important rule. If the system is broken, the

722
00:33:51,760 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: state has to fix it, not the individual people who

723
00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:55,520
Speaker 1: were harmed.

724
00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:55,880
Speaker 2: Yeah.

725
00:33:55,920 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 1: So that's great that the burden now goes to the

726
00:33:58,280 --> 00:34:02,760
Speaker 1: state to correct its mistake when systematic misconduct is uncovered.

727
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, very important. Also very important is that we talked

728
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:08,000
Speaker 2: about the casting John Ben a TV show, which is

729
00:34:08,360 --> 00:34:10,759
Speaker 2: still one of the weirdest experiences I feel like I've

730
00:34:11,120 --> 00:34:13,919
Speaker 2: ever We started watching that thinking you had this great

731
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: watch along idea, Yeah, and immediately we're just like stop

732
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:21,680
Speaker 2: the tape happening. Is this Why are you doing this? Yeah?

733
00:34:21,760 --> 00:34:26,320
Speaker 2: It was very of a time. It was of that time, totally, Yeah,

734
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,160
Speaker 2: for sure. Okay, wow, there's so much business yep, top.

735
00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: But now let's get into Georgia's story about the exorcism

736
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:41,759
Speaker 2: of Anna Lise Mitchell. Okay, I think I went first

737
00:34:41,800 --> 00:34:44,360
Speaker 2: last time, didn't I? Yes, you did, didn't I, Stephen?

738
00:34:45,080 --> 00:34:46,000
Speaker 2: I can't believe I knew.

739
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:50,520
Speaker 1: I can't either that you knew because I didn't. This

740
00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:52,280
Speaker 1: would have taken me ten minutes to remember.

741
00:34:53,360 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 2: It's probably because I was I had to go first

742
00:34:55,480 --> 00:34:57,080
Speaker 2: for some reason. See it as a negative?

743
00:34:57,440 --> 00:34:57,919
Speaker 1: Oh you do?

744
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:58,600
Speaker 2: I do?

745
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,640
Speaker 1: I wonder almost like I don't mind either way.

746
00:35:02,680 --> 00:35:04,240
Speaker 2: Like you have to break the ice or something.

747
00:35:04,640 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 1: But I feel that that if you go last, then

748
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,160
Speaker 1: you have to be like you have to close it hardy,

749
00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. So I don't like going

750
00:35:12,440 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 1: last because I don't, then I can let you close

751
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:15,640
Speaker 1: it hard Yeah.

752
00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:17,040
Speaker 2: Shit, I forgot about that part.

753
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:19,120
Speaker 1: Okay, let's just go back and forth every week.

754
00:35:19,760 --> 00:35:20,600
Speaker 2: That's a good idea.

755
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:23,480
Speaker 1: When you figured that out after how many episodes is

756
00:35:23,520 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 1: this seventy sixty seven sixty seven sixty Stephen? You should

757
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: know that Stephen sixty six sixty seven, good old Lucky

758
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,320
Speaker 1: sixty six sixty six is not lucky.

759
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:34,520
Speaker 2: This is the Devil's episode.

760
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:38,719
Speaker 1: God, do you think we'll ever get to six hundred? Yes,

761
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 1: for sure, that'd be crazy, right we.

762
00:35:40,560 --> 00:35:41,400
Speaker 2: Start tripling up.

763
00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:46,919
Speaker 1: Oh that sounds I want to go take a nap

764
00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:53,360
Speaker 1: just hearing that. Anyways, are you ready for the exorcism

765
00:35:53,640 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 1: of Annalise mckew?

766
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:55,399
Speaker 2: Fuck?

767
00:35:55,560 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: Yes, I am, Yeah, you are all right. Annalise mckow

768
00:35:59,840 --> 00:36:03,719
Speaker 1: was born on September twenty first, nineteen fifty two, in

769
00:36:04,280 --> 00:36:11,000
Speaker 1: led Flig Nope, label flying lebel Fling, lebel Fling.

770
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,320
Speaker 2: It's not lebel Fling.

771
00:36:12,440 --> 00:36:14,680
Speaker 1: I bet you went it l E I V L

772
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,880
Speaker 1: liberal libel f I n G libel thing. Anyway. She

773
00:36:19,920 --> 00:36:24,840
Speaker 1: was born in Bavaria, West Germany. Bavaria sounds a good yeah,

774
00:36:24,840 --> 00:36:28,440
Speaker 1: West Germany, which is a pretty yeah. Okay, it's a

775
00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: pretty forward thinking phase. It's not place. It's not the

776
00:36:31,160 --> 00:36:35,040
Speaker 1: fucking Styx, West Germany, you know, No Bavaria.

777
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:35,359
Speaker 2: No.

778
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:38,080
Speaker 1: Anyways. She lived with her three sisters and her parents,

779
00:36:38,719 --> 00:36:42,720
Speaker 1: and they family were devout Roman Catholics. They attended Mass

780
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,799
Speaker 1: like twice a week, and Anna, as she was known

781
00:36:46,080 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 1: she led a pretty normal wife. You know, you see

782
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,239
Speaker 1: pictures of her, there's a lot of pictures of her.

783
00:36:50,280 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: She's pretty, she looks very normal, you know. As a teenager,

784
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,879
Speaker 1: she's just a normal girl. And her classmates described her

785
00:36:57,880 --> 00:37:02,879
Speaker 1: as withdrawn and very religious. Sorry whish part with drawn

786
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:06,000
Speaker 1: or Mary any or the combination of the two is like,

787
00:37:06,040 --> 00:37:08,600
Speaker 1: you think you're better than you think God likes you

788
00:37:08,640 --> 00:37:09,080
Speaker 1: more than me.

789
00:37:09,239 --> 00:37:12,839
Speaker 2: Yeah he doesn't, but you saying them being a Roman

790
00:37:12,840 --> 00:37:14,960
Speaker 2: Catholic and going to church twice a week. I just

791
00:37:15,520 --> 00:37:20,240
Speaker 2: being a raised Catholic. There's a there's a another echelon

792
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,120
Speaker 2: of Catholicism of people that go multiple times a week

793
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:27,200
Speaker 2: that makes me feel like I'm being suffocated invisibly when

794
00:37:27,200 --> 00:37:29,000
Speaker 2: I hear about it. It's just that kind of like

795
00:37:29,840 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 2: it's such a ritualistic old.

796
00:37:35,320 --> 00:37:39,000
Speaker 1: Almost like it's all it's like it's like ancient.

797
00:37:39,520 --> 00:37:44,080
Speaker 2: It's ancient, and it's kind of like, I don't know,

798
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:45,480
Speaker 2: it just fit. It worries me.

799
00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:50,759
Speaker 1: Tell us non Catholics, like fiercely non Catholics myself, what

800
00:37:50,880 --> 00:37:54,280
Speaker 1: is mass like? Because I've been in a church three

801
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 1: times in my life.

802
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:58,799
Speaker 2: It's long, It's like an hour long and it is

803
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:02,120
Speaker 2: a series of and songs, and then in the middle

804
00:38:02,280 --> 00:38:05,600
Speaker 2: in Latin. No no no. In the fifties, and then

805
00:38:06,080 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 2: in this time they might have done it in Latin.

806
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,560
Speaker 1: Because it's definitely done it in German, that's for sure,

807
00:38:11,640 --> 00:38:13,040
Speaker 1: at least not in English.

808
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:19,359
Speaker 2: But in the late fifties early sixties, I think they

809
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:22,520
Speaker 2: passed a thing called Vatican two where they updated everything.

810
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:24,240
Speaker 2: So like when my dad was growing up, my parents

811
00:38:24,239 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 2: were growing up, the Mass was in Latin and you

812
00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,480
Speaker 2: took Latin in school and all that. So like Vatican,

813
00:38:30,560 --> 00:38:34,600
Speaker 2: the sequel Vatikan two, this electric Bogelist came.

814
00:38:34,440 --> 00:38:37,240
Speaker 1: Out this time were not Latin anymore, that's.

815
00:38:37,160 --> 00:38:40,840
Speaker 2: Right, And they kind of basically updated it so that

816
00:38:40,920 --> 00:38:44,439
Speaker 2: it was all in English, and they cut some stuff out,

817
00:38:44,520 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: and they just made it a little more maybe livable.

818
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,200
Speaker 2: I know, accessible passed a couple extra laws. I'm not

819
00:38:51,239 --> 00:38:55,040
Speaker 2: sure the details. I've been told it multiple times, so

820
00:38:55,040 --> 00:38:55,959
Speaker 2: I just don't remember anything.

821
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,160
Speaker 1: I just tried to update it from the sixteen hundreds.

822
00:38:58,280 --> 00:39:01,279
Speaker 2: I think they allowed guitars for some certain kinds of

823
00:39:01,320 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 2: hippies if they wanted to do it that way. Nobody

824
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: that I knew did it that well.

825
00:39:04,560 --> 00:39:07,359
Speaker 1: Well, analyst did not have a guitar, and she did

826
00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:11,239
Speaker 1: not go to the version two point zero.

827
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,279
Speaker 2: They did not of mass at one point, you do

828
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:16,120
Speaker 2: eat the body of Christ. That's kind of the main

829
00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: point of mass.

830
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,240
Speaker 1: You snick a snack on the body of Christ.

831
00:39:19,280 --> 00:39:19,680
Speaker 2: That's right.

832
00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 1: Like the spread afterwards is like, no, it's.

833
00:39:22,120 --> 00:39:23,640
Speaker 2: All in the middle. You drink of his blood and

834
00:39:23,680 --> 00:39:25,759
Speaker 2: you eat of his body, and then you basically are

835
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:28,759
Speaker 2: forgiven for all your sins, because as immortal, you sin

836
00:39:28,880 --> 00:39:31,920
Speaker 2: constantly and you have to constantly ask for forgiveness. So

837
00:39:32,920 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 2: it's just a little background.

838
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,600
Speaker 1: So many questions. That's that waifer, right, mm hmm. And

839
00:39:37,640 --> 00:39:38,880
Speaker 1: the blood is wine.

840
00:39:39,000 --> 00:39:42,359
Speaker 2: Yeah, but in most masses, the normal people don't drink

841
00:39:42,360 --> 00:39:44,320
Speaker 2: the wine. The priest drinks it on your behalf.

842
00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:46,279
Speaker 1: What a dick, You're like, I'm good, dude, I don't

843
00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:51,080
Speaker 1: need you to do it for me. This yeah, okay. Then,

844
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:57,520
Speaker 1: at age sixteen, she suffers an severe epileptic fit and

845
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,200
Speaker 1: is diagnosed with temporal low epilepsy and depression. That what

846
00:40:02,320 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: you have.

847
00:40:03,440 --> 00:40:07,839
Speaker 2: I don't think I have depression, although sure get lows sometimes,

848
00:40:07,880 --> 00:40:11,200
Speaker 2: but mine is petitue.

849
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,680
Speaker 1: You have petite mal No.

850
00:40:12,840 --> 00:40:15,200
Speaker 2: Grand when I have them. They're grand.

851
00:40:15,920 --> 00:40:19,160
Speaker 1: Karen doesn't do anything half assed, but they also call.

852
00:40:19,080 --> 00:40:21,320
Speaker 2: It seizure disorder. It's a different I'm sure it's.

853
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay. She's treated at a psychiatric hospital and is

854
00:40:24,680 --> 00:40:28,520
Speaker 1: put on anti convulsion meds. I'm sure the psychiatric hospital

855
00:40:28,560 --> 00:40:33,399
Speaker 1: is not chill antipsychotics and mood stabilizers as well as

856
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:37,680
Speaker 1: anti convulsion drugs. When the convulsions continued and none of

857
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 1: it alleviated the problem, she was prescribed another drug, allept

858
00:40:44,320 --> 00:40:50,120
Speaker 1: eloped nope, which is similar to chlorprasm. Why didn't I

859
00:40:50,280 --> 00:40:53,279
Speaker 1: take this part out? It's used in the treatment of

860
00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:58,000
Speaker 1: various psychosis, including schizophrenia, disturbed behavior, and delusions. And by

861
00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy three she's suffering and from depression. It starts

862
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:06,319
Speaker 1: hallucinating while praying. She complains about hearing voices telling her

863
00:41:06,400 --> 00:41:09,839
Speaker 1: that she was damned and would rotten hell, and her

864
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: treatment in a psychiatric hospital did not approve her improve

865
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,440
Speaker 1: her health and her depression got worse despite the meds.

866
00:41:16,880 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: Long term treatment did not help, and she'd grew increasingly

867
00:41:19,560 --> 00:41:22,640
Speaker 1: frustrated with a medical intervention. She'd tear her clothes off,

868
00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:25,960
Speaker 1: she'd eat coal, and she'd urinate on the floor and

869
00:41:26,000 --> 00:41:27,160
Speaker 1: then try to look it up.

870
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:31,360
Speaker 2: Huh yeah, the Okay, let's.

871
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,399
Speaker 1: Played diagnose her right now, she's got schizophrenia. Well she's

872
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: she's developing schizophrenia.

873
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: Or has it. But also I used to always be fascinated.

874
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,040
Speaker 2: There's a there's an illness called pika, which is you

875
00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:46,840
Speaker 2: the need to eat inedible things, which it sounds like

876
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:49,680
Speaker 2: she has, but that might be a symptom of a

877
00:41:49,719 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 2: bigger I think this schizophrenia.

878
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: Itself, and pika is like you're low on some necessary.

879
00:41:56,960 --> 00:41:59,839
Speaker 2: Minerals. Yes, yeah, yeah. A lot of people eat dry wall.

880
00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:03,319
Speaker 1: My friend had the incredible urge. She never did it,

881
00:42:03,320 --> 00:42:05,360
Speaker 1: as far as I know, to eat laundry detergent.

882
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:09,719
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, well that's like on my crazy obsession. There's

883
00:42:09,719 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: a show on TLC where.

884
00:42:11,239 --> 00:42:12,440
Speaker 1: People couch stuffing.

885
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:15,919
Speaker 2: Yes, the lady who ate the couch. Yeah, so nuts.

886
00:42:15,920 --> 00:42:19,319
Speaker 1: So this same friend had bought, like or stole from

887
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,960
Speaker 1: a pharmacy epicac oh, and she was like, i'mbeliemic, I'm

888
00:42:22,960 --> 00:42:24,719
Speaker 1: gonna try it, And then she did it and she

889
00:42:24,880 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: was like, that was the worst experience. And I think

890
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:29,200
Speaker 1: she's stopped being billiemic after that because it was the

891
00:42:29,239 --> 00:42:30,800
Speaker 1: worst experience of her life.

892
00:42:30,560 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 2: Because syrup of epicac just makes you vomit horrible.

893
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 1: Everything you everything you have in your stomach. It's for

894
00:42:38,160 --> 00:42:40,320
Speaker 1: children to eat poison. Yeah, so a lot of parents

895
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,360
Speaker 1: will have it on hand just in case anyways.

896
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 2: And it gives you like food poisoning, barfing.

897
00:42:45,360 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: It's it's wretching until your entire stomach contents are just gone. Anyways,

898
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:53,920
Speaker 1: that was a sidebar.

899
00:42:53,760 --> 00:42:58,080
Speaker 2: Sidebar And also what no, just I just love how

900
00:42:58,120 --> 00:43:00,680
Speaker 2: we're just like maybe it's this and maybe it's that. Anyway.

901
00:43:00,840 --> 00:43:05,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, we're really we're really doing a service to everything.

902
00:43:06,520 --> 00:43:09,720
Speaker 1: So she finished high school and when she was twenty

903
00:43:10,520 --> 00:43:13,759
Speaker 1: she started studying at the University of Wurzburg. So she

904
00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,239
Speaker 1: went to university even though she had these issues. And

905
00:43:16,280 --> 00:43:17,960
Speaker 1: I couldn't complete community college.

906
00:43:17,719 --> 00:43:21,240
Speaker 2: For more than a year, like that's I could barely

907
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 2: hold down a job.

908
00:43:22,080 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 1: Good for her, Yeah, I mean I'd walk out of

909
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:29,000
Speaker 1: jobs sometimes she's never come back. Her symptoms had significantly worse,

910
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:31,880
Speaker 1: and though oh she was studying to become a teacher,

911
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 1: but her problems got worse. She heard voices telling her

912
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,359
Speaker 1: I already said that she saw devil faces. She became suicidal,

913
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:43,240
Speaker 1: and her family believed that she was suffering from demonic possession. Oh,

914
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,160
Speaker 1: jump to demonic possession.

915
00:43:45,239 --> 00:43:46,439
Speaker 2: Yeah.

916
00:43:46,520 --> 00:43:49,640
Speaker 1: A family friend arranged a pilgrimage to a sacred spring

917
00:43:49,719 --> 00:43:54,279
Speaker 1: in San Domiano, and her friend became convinced that she

918
00:43:54,320 --> 00:43:56,960
Speaker 1: was possessed because her inability to walk past a crucifix

919
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,919
Speaker 1: and drink holy water. Do you drink holy water?

920
00:43:59,080 --> 00:43:59,160
Speaker 2: No?

921
00:44:00,040 --> 00:44:02,560
Speaker 1: And what's the inability? Everyone's hands have been in it?

922
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:04,359
Speaker 1: I wouldn't neither.

923
00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:08,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I've never heard of drinking it as a except

924
00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:12,719
Speaker 2: for in like horror movies. Okay, but what I don't know,

925
00:44:13,000 --> 00:44:15,280
Speaker 2: Maybe it's different in West Germany. I'm not sure.

926
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:18,560
Speaker 1: She became aggressive, and she took to self harming, and

927
00:44:18,600 --> 00:44:21,640
Speaker 1: she would okay, and she ate insects. She growled at

928
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:25,120
Speaker 1: religious icons and would sit under her kitchen table barking

929
00:44:25,160 --> 00:44:27,880
Speaker 1: for two days. So the family sought help from the church.

930
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 2: And then the thing that's causing the problem is where

931
00:44:32,560 --> 00:44:35,759
Speaker 2: they go for help. Yeah, I mean yeah, it's like

932
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:40,000
Speaker 2: every single solution, aside from like the psychiatric place, every

933
00:44:40,040 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 2: single solution is religious base.

934
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 1: Well, it's like when you hear of those parents who

935
00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:49,320
Speaker 1: like these days, who refuse to go to the doctor

936
00:44:49,360 --> 00:44:51,480
Speaker 1: to get help, and then they get arrested and their

937
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:54,319
Speaker 1: kid dies because it really just needed penicillin or whatever

938
00:44:54,360 --> 00:44:56,480
Speaker 1: the fuck or yeah, and the kid dies and they

939
00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,800
Speaker 1: get they get convicted and of child neglect.

940
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:01,239
Speaker 2: Yeah.

941
00:45:01,280 --> 00:45:05,360
Speaker 1: So yeah, Anyways, many of the priests they saw said

942
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:10,080
Speaker 1: Annalise needed a doctor. Even the priests were like, hey, yeah,

943
00:45:10,120 --> 00:45:14,319
Speaker 1: but one eventually said that she needed an exorcism, and

944
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: then she was granted one. You have to get granted

945
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,520
Speaker 1: next to be exercised, under the condition that would be

946
00:45:19,560 --> 00:45:22,000
Speaker 1: done in total secrecy. And her parents were like that

947
00:45:22,080 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: sounds on the level. Let's fucking do it right, Like

948
00:45:25,719 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: everyone's like no, no, no, go to a doctor, go

949
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,160
Speaker 1: to a doctor. One's like sure, just don't tell anyone. Yeah, great,

950
00:45:31,239 --> 00:45:32,480
Speaker 1: that's what we've been waiting to hear.

951
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 2: Well, maybe because they were trying to be progressive, and

952
00:45:35,239 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 2: there's exorcisms are about as like retro as you could

953
00:45:39,880 --> 00:45:40,760
Speaker 2: be in the church.

954
00:45:40,840 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 1: Definitely. So in seventy five, she and her parents stop

955
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:51,320
Speaker 1: seeking medical advice altogether. So three days after her twenty

956
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: seventh birthday twenty second birthday, and over the next ten months,

957
00:45:56,120 --> 00:46:01,040
Speaker 1: father Arnold Rents and Pastor ernst Alt for sixty seven

958
00:46:01,120 --> 00:46:08,200
Speaker 1: exorcisms on her WHOA for fucking yeah, sick ten months

959
00:46:08,320 --> 00:46:12,200
Speaker 1: and sixty seven like series of exorcisms, and it said

960
00:46:12,200 --> 00:46:14,440
Speaker 1: that every but they say that every action that they

961
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:16,880
Speaker 1: took during these times and rituals were all condoned by

962
00:46:16,880 --> 00:46:20,359
Speaker 1: analyst who's fucking mentally ill. She's like, yeah, bring it on,

963
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: this is what I need. Why are you letting she

964
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:26,640
Speaker 1: shouldn't be she shouldn't have decision making capacities anymore.

965
00:46:27,080 --> 00:46:29,960
Speaker 2: Well, also, what if nothing else is working? What else

966
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,080
Speaker 2: are you going to do? I mean, if if you've

967
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:35,239
Speaker 2: gone to hospitals and you've and nothing is changing it,

968
00:46:35,680 --> 00:46:38,279
Speaker 2: then of course you're like, yes, keep trying this other thing.

969
00:46:38,400 --> 00:46:44,719
Speaker 1: Yeah. They would attempt to drive the demons from her

970
00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,360
Speaker 1: body while she would argue with them into demonic voices,

971
00:46:48,719 --> 00:46:52,359
Speaker 1: and guess what, they fucking taped them all, audio tape

972
00:46:52,400 --> 00:46:53,719
Speaker 1: them all and videotape them.

973
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:55,160
Speaker 2: WHOA would you.

974
00:46:55,200 --> 00:46:57,239
Speaker 1: Rather watch and listen to one of those or listen

975
00:46:57,239 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: to a nine on one call? Uh?

976
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:00,319
Speaker 2: One of those? Sure?

977
00:47:00,400 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 1: Having been a Catholic? Yes, it's terrifying, is it? Yeah?

978
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:08,400
Speaker 1: I mean it's it's terrifying because it's scary and her

979
00:47:08,480 --> 00:47:11,160
Speaker 1: voice is insane. But it's also horrifying because you can

980
00:47:11,160 --> 00:47:14,439
Speaker 1: tell it's just like there's someone acting in a way

981
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,920
Speaker 1: that like they're mentally ill, and it's like it was

982
00:47:17,960 --> 00:47:21,160
Speaker 1: almost like it was like a ramping her up. Yeah,

983
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:22,719
Speaker 1: it's really fucking horrifying.

984
00:47:23,440 --> 00:47:25,640
Speaker 2: Wait, so when you listen to it, you didn't believe

985
00:47:25,680 --> 00:47:28,560
Speaker 2: she was possessed. You believed that she was mentally ill

986
00:47:28,600 --> 00:47:31,200
Speaker 2: and well basically answering the call that they.

987
00:47:31,080 --> 00:47:34,520
Speaker 1: Were and having fits of like moments of mental illness.

988
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:36,360
Speaker 1: And I don't believe in Like, it's not like I

989
00:47:36,360 --> 00:47:39,240
Speaker 1: would have believed that because I don't believe in God

990
00:47:39,280 --> 00:47:42,560
Speaker 1: and the devil and all this, okay, But so all

991
00:47:42,600 --> 00:47:44,239
Speaker 1: I could see it was from a mental illness point

992
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,560
Speaker 1: of view, because that's all I have to hold me

993
00:47:47,600 --> 00:47:55,960
Speaker 1: together and explain myself. Then me, she stopped eating altogether.

994
00:47:56,120 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: She believed it would lessen the evils control over her,

995
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: and she got so weak with her parents had to

996
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:03,120
Speaker 1: hold her up when she got too weak to do

997
00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 1: it herself, so they would like hold her up, take

998
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:06,760
Speaker 1: her to bed, carry her around.

999
00:48:06,840 --> 00:48:07,080
Speaker 2: Shit.

1000
00:48:07,400 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 1: And there's these fucking photos, man, So she was this normal,

1001
00:48:10,360 --> 00:48:15,000
Speaker 1: pretty regular young woman and the photos look like they're

1002
00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: from a horror movie. Oh no, I mean her like

1003
00:48:17,800 --> 00:48:20,960
Speaker 1: she has these like blisters on her mouth. She ends

1004
00:48:21,040 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 1: up being sixty pounds.

1005
00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:25,000
Speaker 2: Oh no, she looks.

1006
00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:26,719
Speaker 1: Like And do you ever see the photo of the

1007
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,439
Speaker 1: like when they found someone's sister in the back room

1008
00:48:29,440 --> 00:48:31,640
Speaker 1: who had scoliosis and they just left her back there

1009
00:48:31,640 --> 00:48:34,239
Speaker 1: and stars like starved her. And they found her in

1010
00:48:34,280 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: like the seventies back there and took photos of her,

1011
00:48:36,200 --> 00:48:39,080
Speaker 1: and she was alive, which is also terrifying. She looked

1012
00:48:39,080 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: like that. She look like an old woman. Oh no,

1013
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,279
Speaker 1: it's really horrible, but you can tell it's her.

1014
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,080
Speaker 2: I've never heard of that Scoliosa's story.

1015
00:48:50,239 --> 00:48:51,240
Speaker 1: It's really sad.

1016
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 2: It was making me think of a part in pet

1017
00:48:53,400 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 2: Cemetery where the sister sits up in bed.

1018
00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:56,239
Speaker 1: It might be that.

1019
00:48:57,840 --> 00:48:59,719
Speaker 2: Well, I mean, you know what, do you think that's

1020
00:48:59,760 --> 00:49:00,080
Speaker 2: what it is?

1021
00:49:00,200 --> 00:49:02,359
Speaker 1: That's what that scary thing where she sits up at

1022
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 1: least last her. Okay, that, but it looks like that. Yes,

1023
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:06,880
Speaker 1: so what I was talking about was fiction.

1024
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 2: No no, no, because then it also please it's like

1025
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:12,839
Speaker 2: people haven't been fucking abandoned and locked into back rooms

1026
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,120
Speaker 2: or whatever. No, but it just like the way you

1027
00:49:15,200 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 2: just described that. I was like, oh wait, that's the

1028
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,239
Speaker 2: best part of that fucking movie. Best worst part of that.

1029
00:49:20,200 --> 00:49:22,279
Speaker 1: Movie, it is. I forgot all about that part because

1030
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:26,440
Speaker 1: I thought it was real. But that's what she looked like, Okay,

1031
00:49:26,520 --> 00:49:32,560
Speaker 1: essentially horrifying, unkempt, way too thin, like clearly to go from.

1032
00:49:32,800 --> 00:49:34,480
Speaker 1: And you look at her and there's no way. She's

1033
00:49:34,520 --> 00:49:37,680
Speaker 1: twenty two in your mind to go to that level.

1034
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:39,919
Speaker 1: Is just like the fact that they could keep doing

1035
00:49:39,960 --> 00:49:45,839
Speaker 1: that to her despite this is unconscionable. So she died

1036
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,080
Speaker 1: in her sleep on July first, nineteen seventy six. She

1037
00:49:49,120 --> 00:49:52,560
Speaker 1: weighed sixty six pounds. Her knees were broken due to

1038
00:49:52,600 --> 00:49:55,000
Speaker 1: prolonged and repetitive geniflections.

1039
00:49:55,360 --> 00:49:57,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that was kneeling down as.

1040
00:49:57,160 --> 00:50:00,520
Speaker 1: Part of the exorcisms, and she was immobile and had ammonia.

1041
00:50:01,280 --> 00:50:04,919
Speaker 2: She broke her knees from kneeling over and over. Broke

1042
00:50:04,960 --> 00:50:07,480
Speaker 2: her knees. That's fucking insane.

1043
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:13,399
Speaker 1: The knees are hard to break. Oh, I know, man.

1044
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,120
Speaker 1: The autopsy reports to say that her death resulted from

1045
00:50:19,120 --> 00:50:22,680
Speaker 1: malnutrition and dehydration due to almost a year of semi

1046
00:50:22,680 --> 00:50:26,880
Speaker 1: starvation during the exorcisms. The death was investigated, and the

1047
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:31,239
Speaker 1: state prosecutor found that Anna's death was preventable. Even as

1048
00:50:31,280 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: late as one week prior to her death, they could

1049
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,279
Speaker 1: have saved her. Her parents and the two priests were

1050
00:50:36,360 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: charged with negligent homicide, and the trial began on March thirtieth,

1051
00:50:39,560 --> 00:50:42,560
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy eight. The priests were defended by church paid

1052
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,919
Speaker 1: lawyers and the parents were defended by a dude who

1053
00:50:45,920 --> 00:50:48,680
Speaker 1: claimed that the exorcism was legal, and then the German

1054
00:50:48,760 --> 00:50:53,880
Speaker 1: constitution protected citizens in the unrestricted exercise of their religious beliefs.

1055
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,200
Speaker 1: So it's like, if you believe it, just do it. Yeah,

1056
00:50:57,239 --> 00:51:01,719
Speaker 1: you know, it's like nike it. They played.

1057
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,000
Speaker 2: It seems like you made yourself sad on that one.

1058
00:51:06,120 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 1: I did, because well, person, I was like, that's not

1059
00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,239
Speaker 1: a good exorcism, just to do it, you know what

1060
00:51:10,320 --> 00:51:11,479
Speaker 1: I mean. It's like, that's not.

1061
00:51:11,640 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 2: That's not a good attitude about exorcism. No.

1062
00:51:14,640 --> 00:51:18,319
Speaker 1: They played the court the audio tapes from the exorcisms,

1063
00:51:18,320 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 1: which they maintained proved that she was possessed due to

1064
00:51:21,080 --> 00:51:24,640
Speaker 1: the appearance of demonic voices on the tapes. The priest

1065
00:51:24,719 --> 00:51:27,760
Speaker 1: tested by the Anna was possessed by several demons, claiming

1066
00:51:27,760 --> 00:51:31,800
Speaker 1: to be Lucifer Cain, Judas Scariot.

1067
00:51:32,120 --> 00:51:34,800
Speaker 2: Judas is Scariot. He's the one that turned on Jesus.

1068
00:51:34,960 --> 00:51:38,320
Speaker 2: Thank you, you're welcome. It's in there for a reason,

1069
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:39,480
Speaker 2: and now I know why.

1070
00:51:39,760 --> 00:51:44,520
Speaker 1: That's amazing. Look at you. Who's Hitler? Now, which one

1071
00:51:44,520 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 1: of the saints is Hitler? Hitler came out of her Yeah,

1072
00:51:48,000 --> 00:51:52,400
Speaker 1: they said, also Hitler and Nero, Jesus is Jesus.

1073
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,200
Speaker 2: It's all star villain. No Jesus. Jesus wasn't there are

1074
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:59,320
Speaker 2: clearly no Jesus is against them. He was nowhere to

1075
00:51:59,360 --> 00:52:00,440
Speaker 2: be found in this situation.

1076
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:04,800
Speaker 1: Nope, he didn't come to visit Hitler. Fuck, guess who's

1077
00:52:04,840 --> 00:52:06,560
Speaker 1: coming to dinner? Not Jesus.

1078
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:10,200
Speaker 2: He took a pass on this dinner party.

1079
00:52:10,239 --> 00:52:11,640
Speaker 1: He latered right out of there.

1080
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 2: Nero, my god, Nero's that the Roman what do you

1081
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:20,879
Speaker 2: call it, Caesar or Augusta whatever, the guy that, oh,

1082
00:52:20,920 --> 00:52:25,120
Speaker 2: my god, I cadd He's the guy that that fiddled well,

1083
00:52:25,239 --> 00:52:27,839
Speaker 2: Rome burned. He was the last emperor of Rome.

1084
00:52:27,960 --> 00:52:36,480
Speaker 1: Okay, history and math and science not my thing and anything. Really.

1085
00:52:37,239 --> 00:52:42,719
Speaker 1: They also noted that the exorcisms apparently finally worked. They

1086
00:52:42,719 --> 00:52:45,719
Speaker 1: said it worked immediately prior to her death. So oh well,

1087
00:52:45,840 --> 00:52:49,400
Speaker 1: so it worked, so unfortunate. Yeah. They also noted that

1088
00:52:49,440 --> 00:52:52,960
Speaker 1: the uh they okay, they were found guilty of a manslaughter,

1089
00:52:53,120 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 1: sentenced to six months imprisonment which was later suspended, and

1090
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,120
Speaker 1: three years of probation. And there's a photo of her

1091
00:53:00,120 --> 00:53:04,080
Speaker 1: mont at the funeral, open casket like prone next to

1092
00:53:04,160 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: her daughter's corpse that she effectively killed. Her story is

1093
00:53:09,800 --> 00:53:13,879
Speaker 1: dramatized in the films The Exorcism, Emily Rose Requiem, which

1094
00:53:13,920 --> 00:53:17,560
Speaker 1: I watched, and Analise the Exorcist tapes, So like, this

1095
00:53:17,640 --> 00:53:19,719
Speaker 1: is where they all came from. Is pretty much the

1096
00:53:19,880 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: chicks fucking experiences. Yeah, despite the fact that in nineteen

1097
00:53:23,120 --> 00:53:26,239
Speaker 1: eighty four the bishops declared Annalise mentally ill. So even

1098
00:53:26,239 --> 00:53:30,120
Speaker 1: the bishops were like, remember what we said, they said,

1099
00:53:30,160 --> 00:53:33,640
Speaker 1: she's not possessed, but still her grave became a pilgrimage

1100
00:53:33,680 --> 00:53:37,319
Speaker 1: center for fringe believers of course, okay. And then this

1101
00:53:37,400 --> 00:53:39,600
Speaker 1: made me think of this book I recently read called

1102
00:53:39,640 --> 00:53:43,640
Speaker 1: Brain on Fire by Susan Callahan. Have you heard of it? No,

1103
00:53:43,760 --> 00:53:46,239
Speaker 1: It's really good, And then I looked it up to

1104
00:53:46,280 --> 00:53:48,479
Speaker 1: find out details of it because in it she talks

1105
00:53:48,520 --> 00:53:53,680
Speaker 1: about how this disease that she had, they now think

1106
00:53:54,160 --> 00:53:56,920
Speaker 1: is linked to a lot of what they thought was

1107
00:53:56,960 --> 00:54:01,399
Speaker 1: the exorcism signs. And so I look this up. It's

1108
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: not my I'm not fucking this has already been talked

1109
00:54:05,080 --> 00:54:07,480
Speaker 1: about a lot on the internet as far as Brain

1110
00:54:07,520 --> 00:54:09,400
Speaker 1: on Fire is concerned. So it's not me being like,

1111
00:54:09,640 --> 00:54:11,399
Speaker 1: oh my god, I just put it together like everyone

1112
00:54:11,480 --> 00:54:14,600
Speaker 1: put it together. Yeah, So Susannah and book Brain on

1113
00:54:14,640 --> 00:54:16,640
Speaker 1: Fire is really fucking good. She's twenty four, she's a

1114
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,520
Speaker 1: writer at the New York Post, and she starts going

1115
00:54:18,560 --> 00:54:21,480
Speaker 1: fucking crazy. She comes fixated on the idea that her

1116
00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 1: home was infested with bedbugs. She like calls a bedbug

1117
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: guy in to like clean out her, like what the fuck,

1118
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:30,080
Speaker 1: and he's like, there's no bed bugs in here. She's paranoid, irrational,

1119
00:54:30,440 --> 00:54:32,839
Speaker 1: laughing and crying all the time. Her family thought she's

1120
00:54:32,840 --> 00:54:35,160
Speaker 1: having a nervous breakdown, and they like kind of blow

1121
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:37,800
Speaker 1: her off and give her antipsychotics and then anti seizure

1122
00:54:37,840 --> 00:54:40,560
Speaker 1: meds when she starts having seizures, so along the same lines,

1123
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: and she is eventually finally diagnosed with anti m NMDA

1124
00:54:46,160 --> 00:54:49,760
Speaker 1: receptor encephalitis, which is caused when the body's immune system

1125
00:54:50,160 --> 00:54:53,160
Speaker 1: goes haywire and attacks of protein in the brain that

1126
00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:54,759
Speaker 1: helps neurons communicate.

1127
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:58,080
Speaker 2: Fuck yeah, which sounds a lot like Alzheimer's.

1128
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:01,560
Speaker 1: Yes, they're linking it to the that too, And it

1129
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:04,680
Speaker 1: was like there was one doctor who was able to

1130
00:55:04,719 --> 00:55:06,440
Speaker 1: finally figure it out. And the way he figured it

1131
00:55:06,480 --> 00:55:09,600
Speaker 1: out is when he had her draw a clock and

1132
00:55:09,640 --> 00:55:12,080
Speaker 1: she drew the circle and wrote all of the numbers

1133
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:16,120
Speaker 1: tightly on the right hand side, so the brain wasn't computing,

1134
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:18,680
Speaker 1: it wasn't even seeing in the other side, and she

1135
00:55:18,719 --> 00:55:20,560
Speaker 1: thought it was normal, you know what I mean.

1136
00:55:20,640 --> 00:55:24,040
Speaker 2: Yes, so, because I feel like I've seen that picture, right, Yeah,

1137
00:55:24,520 --> 00:55:25,040
Speaker 2: so she was.

1138
00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:30,520
Speaker 1: So it's the same receptor that's blocked by PCP or ketamine,

1139
00:55:30,560 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: and both drugs can make a normal person act like

1140
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:36,560
Speaker 1: someone with schizophrenia, so, which I didn't know. That sounds terrifying.

1141
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:38,080
Speaker 1: Why would you take those drugs.

1142
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 2: The seventies, I think most people accidentally smoked PCP. Yeah,

1143
00:55:42,160 --> 00:55:46,080
Speaker 2: there was a lot of like because that's angel dust, right, Yeah, yeah.

1144
00:55:46,040 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: We're accidentally on purpose because the drug wars were fucking

1145
00:55:50,760 --> 00:55:52,080
Speaker 1: racist and horrible.

1146
00:55:52,200 --> 00:55:52,840
Speaker 2: That's true.

1147
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:55,319
Speaker 1: Uh, look it up, look up nero.

1148
00:55:55,520 --> 00:55:57,799
Speaker 2: Whether dare you look it up?

1149
00:55:57,880 --> 00:56:00,400
Speaker 1: No, I didn't mean it like that. I'm like you better. Yeah,

1150
00:56:00,440 --> 00:56:02,799
Speaker 1: I'm right. No, I didn't mean like, I don't know

1151
00:56:03,080 --> 00:56:04,839
Speaker 1: you look it up. I don't care not, I want

1152
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:06,640
Speaker 1: like you know what I mean. I just want to

1153
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:13,799
Speaker 1: make clear. Yes, the diseases the disease Stephen make me

1154
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:17,200
Speaker 1: sound like I can breathe, we can do this. The

1155
00:56:17,239 --> 00:56:22,280
Speaker 1: disease typically strikes young women, and symptoms worsen and include agitation, paranoia, delusions,

1156
00:56:22,280 --> 00:56:24,960
Speaker 1: hallucinations and seizures, and psychosis.

1157
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:28,920
Speaker 2: Fuck. Yeah, I'm not literally thinking back in the nineties

1158
00:56:28,920 --> 00:56:31,719
Speaker 2: of like did I have paranoia? Did I have was

1159
00:56:31,760 --> 00:56:32,480
Speaker 2: I hallucinating?

1160
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,279
Speaker 1: But I did you think? Do you remember? Because like

1161
00:56:34,360 --> 00:56:38,480
Speaker 1: schizophrenia hits younger women, it seems like really that's really

1162
00:56:38,520 --> 00:56:42,279
Speaker 1: the main demographic. Yeah, and so did you ever be like, shit, man,

1163
00:56:42,320 --> 00:56:43,680
Speaker 1: if I'm going to hit it, this is going to

1164
00:56:43,760 --> 00:56:45,799
Speaker 1: be like a twenty four I was like, get out

1165
00:56:45,800 --> 00:56:49,799
Speaker 1: of this. Yes, without schizophrenia, Well yes, because the uh so,

1166
00:56:49,840 --> 00:56:52,239
Speaker 1: the brain grows like a certain way every seven years,

1167
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:53,760
Speaker 1: a certain amount every seven years.

1168
00:56:53,760 --> 00:56:56,839
Speaker 2: That's like this. So that's why they say it's when

1169
00:56:56,880 --> 00:57:01,360
Speaker 2: you're you know, twenty one whatever. It goes in sevens

1170
00:57:01,400 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 2: of when they think when they most commonly diagnose it,

1171
00:57:05,440 --> 00:57:08,200
Speaker 2: So they say, and when I was at the end,

1172
00:57:08,239 --> 00:57:10,239
Speaker 2: it was I was twenty eight and it was my

1173
00:57:10,719 --> 00:57:12,319
Speaker 2: fourth one or whatever.

1174
00:57:12,040 --> 00:57:14,400
Speaker 1: A few Yeah, your fourth seizure.

1175
00:57:15,200 --> 00:57:17,280
Speaker 2: I was like the cycle or whatever where I was

1176
00:57:17,360 --> 00:57:19,360
Speaker 2: when I read that thing about the brain growing. And

1177
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:22,280
Speaker 2: that's why sometimes people have seizures, and sometimes they have

1178
00:57:22,360 --> 00:57:23,360
Speaker 2: them and never have them again.

1179
00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:25,920
Speaker 1: I had one at fourteen, No, twelve, Yeah, I had

1180
00:57:25,960 --> 00:57:26,520
Speaker 1: one at twelve.

1181
00:57:26,560 --> 00:57:27,440
Speaker 2: Your brain is little.

1182
00:57:27,520 --> 00:57:30,480
Speaker 1: My brother had one too, Yeah, and pretty commers that

1183
00:57:30,560 --> 00:57:34,920
Speaker 1: because it's just complicated. Well, yeah, then it makes sense

1184
00:57:35,160 --> 00:57:37,760
Speaker 1: why a young woman comes in with fucking symptoms that

1185
00:57:37,800 --> 00:57:40,680
Speaker 1: look like schizophrenia, who's like twenty three or four, And

1186
00:57:40,720 --> 00:57:44,160
Speaker 1: of course it's just an obvious diagnosis. But then when

1187
00:57:44,160 --> 00:57:46,400
Speaker 1: the brain the drugs don't work, you know that's a

1188
00:57:46,440 --> 00:57:50,760
Speaker 1: sign it's not. But you know, they didn't doctors a

1189
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,000
Speaker 1: lot didn't want to look into that more and would

1190
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:54,080
Speaker 1: just send you to someone else.

1191
00:57:54,160 --> 00:57:56,240
Speaker 2: And well, it's like when they're supposed to be the

1192
00:57:56,240 --> 00:57:57,960
Speaker 2: final word, and if they don't know what to do,

1193
00:57:58,760 --> 00:57:59,840
Speaker 2: then what do you do.

1194
00:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,560
Speaker 1: She's spent, she said, She's spent one hundred thousand, No, no, no,

1195
00:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: she said a million dollars on different drugs to try

1196
00:58:06,720 --> 00:58:10,080
Speaker 1: to tackle this, Jesus, and none of it worked. And

1197
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,600
Speaker 1: then finally this guy's like, draw a clock and she's

1198
00:58:12,640 --> 00:58:15,560
Speaker 1: like what and draws it and it didn't cost anything

1199
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:17,160
Speaker 1: to draw the clock and for him to be like

1200
00:58:17,440 --> 00:58:17,880
Speaker 1: you have this?

1201
00:58:18,360 --> 00:58:18,680
Speaker 2: Wow?

1202
00:58:18,760 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: Okay, So anyways, that's not this isn't about her. Uh So,

1203
00:58:22,520 --> 00:58:26,840
Speaker 1: it's now speculated that anti NMDA receptor and cephalitis could

1204
00:58:26,840 --> 00:58:29,120
Speaker 1: be behind historical descriptions of what was believed to be

1205
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:34,080
Speaker 1: demonic possession, including in The Exorcist when she walks on

1206
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:36,280
Speaker 1: her walk. How do you explain that?

1207
00:58:36,720 --> 00:58:38,080
Speaker 2: Is she backwards crab walks?

1208
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:41,600
Speaker 1: Yes, that's like your bones get stiff, your body like

1209
00:58:41,680 --> 00:58:44,360
Speaker 1: turns into these crazy folds and stuff like that, and

1210
00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:46,160
Speaker 1: that's one of the fucking things that happened.

1211
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:48,760
Speaker 2: Really, Yeah, that's crazy.

1212
00:58:48,800 --> 00:58:53,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, So that exact symptom of demonic possession is actually

1213
00:58:53,080 --> 00:58:58,160
Speaker 1: a symptom of this. Wow. So appropriate diagnosis and treatment

1214
00:58:58,200 --> 00:59:00,560
Speaker 1: more than eighty percent of patients have a good outcome.

1215
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:03,440
Speaker 1: And then I wrote the worst line I've ever written

1216
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:05,680
Speaker 1: to end a story because I didn't allow how else

1217
00:59:05,720 --> 00:59:09,080
Speaker 1: to do it? Susan Callahan got better, but unfortunately Anna

1218
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 1: Lisee Michelle didn't have the chance.

1219
00:59:12,000 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 2: I know.

1220
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:17,040
Speaker 1: I mean, listen, I think they're making a movie out

1221
00:59:17,040 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: of it. Brain on Fire really fucking interesting.

1222
00:59:19,520 --> 00:59:21,520
Speaker 2: I would love to see that or rehab It, you

1223
00:59:21,520 --> 00:59:23,960
Speaker 2: can have it. I do want to read that. Uh

1224
00:59:24,680 --> 00:59:26,919
Speaker 2: I saw I think Requiem is that the one that's

1225
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:31,200
Speaker 2: in Germany. That movie is so upsetting. I saw the

1226
00:59:31,240 --> 00:59:34,240
Speaker 2: first I would say two thirds of it, and then

1227
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:36,800
Speaker 2: when she started having seizures, when it started getting into

1228
00:59:36,840 --> 00:59:37,920
Speaker 2: that thing, I was like, oh, I don't want to

1229
00:59:37,920 --> 00:59:38,920
Speaker 2: watch a girl have seizure.

1230
00:59:39,040 --> 00:59:43,000
Speaker 1: It looks so horrifying when she has a seizure. Yeah,

1231
00:59:43,200 --> 00:59:43,600
Speaker 1: I mean.

1232
00:59:43,480 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 2: It's just well, it is really. I mean you picture

1233
00:59:47,080 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 2: back when demonic possession was conceived and when it was

1234
00:59:50,600 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 2: people who like, if you had a brain disorder in

1235
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 2: you know, medieval times or the Dark Ages, you were

1236
00:59:55,960 --> 00:59:58,760
Speaker 2: just fucked because there was no treatment. There was nothing

1237
00:59:58,800 --> 00:59:59,640
Speaker 2: to be done.

1238
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,800
Speaker 1: In the Dark Ages and the fucking nineties at Belheu Hospital,

1239
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:06,360
Speaker 1: like a seizure you were you know, if they couldn't

1240
01:00:06,360 --> 01:00:07,440
Speaker 1: control it right.

1241
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:09,840
Speaker 2: Well, they can control it, they just don't know why

1242
01:00:09,840 --> 01:00:12,520
Speaker 2: you're having it unless they go in and they go

1243
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:14,840
Speaker 2: have brain surgery and they look to find if there's

1244
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:18,040
Speaker 2: scars on your brain, but like, if there's no, if

1245
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,080
Speaker 2: you don't have like, oh, I've gotten a car accent

1246
01:00:20,120 --> 01:00:21,920
Speaker 2: and this is what's happening. If you don't have a

1247
01:00:22,000 --> 01:00:24,320
Speaker 2: story that they can put a storyline to, then they're

1248
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:26,880
Speaker 2: just like, we don't know. And that's in the beginning

1249
01:00:26,920 --> 01:00:30,560
Speaker 2: of my seizure disorder journey. In the beginning, they were

1250
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:32,960
Speaker 2: just like, Oh, this is just alcohol withdrawal. This is

1251
01:00:33,000 --> 01:00:36,800
Speaker 2: what happens to alcoholics. I, of course, then with absolutely

1252
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,200
Speaker 2: no shame whatsoever, was like, but I've never stopped drinking,

1253
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:43,960
Speaker 2: so how could i have withdrawal, no withdrawal situation happening?

1254
01:00:44,320 --> 01:00:46,800
Speaker 2: But you know, and then it turned out that that

1255
01:00:47,200 --> 01:00:49,120
Speaker 2: wasn't what it was because I still have seizures to

1256
01:00:49,160 --> 01:00:52,240
Speaker 2: this day. I knew things were happening, and I had injuries,

1257
01:00:52,400 --> 01:00:55,240
Speaker 2: and I'd weird you know, I'd weird eye because of

1258
01:00:55,280 --> 01:00:57,760
Speaker 2: the aura of my seizure is my eyes flick around.

1259
01:00:58,240 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 2: And so when that first started, I would driving and

1260
01:01:00,640 --> 01:01:02,400
Speaker 2: it felt to me like I was looking at the

1261
01:01:02,440 --> 01:01:05,080
Speaker 2: other cars coming like I have a very specifical memory

1262
01:01:05,080 --> 01:01:07,160
Speaker 2: of driving down fountain and just check. I felt like

1263
01:01:07,160 --> 01:01:09,600
Speaker 2: I was checking the other cars, and so I was like, oh,

1264
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:12,240
Speaker 2: am I crazy now that I'm like OCD checking cars.

1265
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,240
Speaker 2: But it turned out it was my eyes just going

1266
01:01:14,280 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 2: eh uh, because that's the aura.

1267
01:01:16,520 --> 01:01:18,280
Speaker 1: And then you seem paranoid a little because you can't

1268
01:01:18,280 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 1: stop looking at the cars.

1269
01:01:20,400 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I didn't think that, okay, but you could

1270
01:01:22,240 --> 01:01:24,280
Speaker 2: put that together if you were a doctor trying to

1271
01:01:24,280 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 2: figure out what the hell was going on. All of

1272
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,880
Speaker 2: that stuff fits totally. But the idea that they just

1273
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:32,680
Speaker 2: keep going back to the church or to Catholicism to

1274
01:01:32,760 --> 01:01:37,000
Speaker 2: fix it is just like, oh, it's heartbreaking. Yeah, I know,

1275
01:01:38,480 --> 01:01:40,080
Speaker 2: broken knee caps is not cool.

1276
01:01:40,160 --> 01:01:43,919
Speaker 1: Oh that's such a specific thing of like, okay, this

1277
01:01:43,920 --> 01:01:47,160
Speaker 1: is the thing you can point to of excessive what

1278
01:01:47,240 --> 01:01:50,200
Speaker 1: she went through, that specific thing of her knees being

1279
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:51,480
Speaker 1: broken from fucking.

1280
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:54,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, someone should have said stop way fucking earlier than

1281
01:01:54,800 --> 01:01:58,360
Speaker 2: when she weighed sixty six pounds. It's insanity. It doesn't

1282
01:01:58,360 --> 01:01:58,680
Speaker 2: make sense.

1283
01:01:58,680 --> 01:02:00,400
Speaker 1: And the whole time she was on board with it.

1284
01:02:00,440 --> 01:02:02,920
Speaker 1: So they were probably like, because they're priests, these people

1285
01:02:02,960 --> 01:02:04,800
Speaker 1: haven't know she was because she was.

1286
01:02:05,520 --> 01:02:07,520
Speaker 2: No, I'm saying because priests are doing it to her.

1287
01:02:07,600 --> 01:02:08,800
Speaker 2: She's a devout Catholic.

1288
01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:11,400
Speaker 1: Those they drink the blood of Christ.

1289
01:02:11,560 --> 01:02:15,000
Speaker 2: They know better than doctors. Their like final word. It

1290
01:02:15,040 --> 01:02:17,560
Speaker 2: makes me think too of did you watch Taboo, the

1291
01:02:17,560 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 2: Tom Hardy series on FX.

1292
01:02:19,080 --> 01:02:20,760
Speaker 1: Oh wait, we watched a couple episodes.

1293
01:02:20,880 --> 01:02:25,800
Speaker 2: There was just one near the end his sister who's married,

1294
01:02:25,960 --> 01:02:27,880
Speaker 2: and she's just like a rebel. She's just like a

1295
01:02:27,920 --> 01:02:31,360
Speaker 2: fuck you rebel for lots of different reasons. Her husband

1296
01:02:31,400 --> 01:02:34,120
Speaker 2: finally decides that she's possessed by the devil and has

1297
01:02:34,160 --> 01:02:37,200
Speaker 2: someone come to exercise the demons inside her, and she

1298
01:02:37,280 --> 01:02:41,640
Speaker 2: basically just get gets molested by this priest. And it's

1299
01:02:41,760 --> 01:02:44,439
Speaker 2: that thing too of women in society over the years,

1300
01:02:44,480 --> 01:02:47,080
Speaker 2: where it's like when you did have these people and

1301
01:02:47,120 --> 01:02:49,800
Speaker 2: it's not you know, it's not the exact same thing

1302
01:02:49,840 --> 01:02:52,240
Speaker 2: every time, obviously, but that it's such a good example

1303
01:02:52,280 --> 01:02:56,720
Speaker 2: of like women having no you know, own rights or

1304
01:02:56,760 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 2: ownership over their own fucking bodies. So then it was like,

1305
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 2: if you're Sassin back and saying fuck and all this stuff,

1306
01:03:02,640 --> 01:03:04,919
Speaker 2: then you're possessed by the devil. And then two men

1307
01:03:05,040 --> 01:03:07,880
Speaker 2: come in and get to just do what they want

1308
01:03:07,920 --> 01:03:10,240
Speaker 2: to quote unquote get rid of the devil inside you,

1309
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,640
Speaker 2: and you are just tied down and you know you

1310
01:03:13,720 --> 01:03:14,360
Speaker 2: have to take it.

1311
01:03:14,440 --> 01:03:16,240
Speaker 1: Well, it's the same thing as far as in like

1312
01:03:16,280 --> 01:03:18,440
Speaker 1: the fifties and sixties and seventies, where it's like my

1313
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,080
Speaker 1: wife is being rebellious and or depressed and it's like

1314
01:03:23,280 --> 01:03:28,880
Speaker 1: we'll give her a fucking pill lobotomy. Oh shit, yeah,

1315
01:03:28,960 --> 01:03:33,439
Speaker 1: the lovotomy situation. Oh man, I'm like, she doesn't want

1316
01:03:33,480 --> 01:03:36,760
Speaker 1: to be a fucking housewife anymore. She's going crazy.

1317
01:03:40,240 --> 01:03:42,520
Speaker 2: Okay, we're back. Do you have any updates on this case?

1318
01:03:42,840 --> 01:03:46,000
Speaker 1: No updates on this case. But the book I mentioned,

1319
01:03:46,240 --> 01:03:50,040
Speaker 1: Brain on Fire by Susannah Kahalan, which I still highly

1320
01:03:50,080 --> 01:03:53,080
Speaker 1: recommend in relation to this case, was turned into a

1321
01:03:53,120 --> 01:03:56,720
Speaker 1: film by the same name for Netflix, and Chloe Grace

1322
01:03:56,800 --> 01:03:59,800
Speaker 1: Moretz was the woman who played the author who wrote

1323
01:03:59,800 --> 01:04:04,760
Speaker 1: about this incredible experience she had that just I think

1324
01:04:04,800 --> 01:04:07,160
Speaker 1: about it all the time when you hear about extracisms

1325
01:04:07,200 --> 01:04:09,880
Speaker 1: and how freaking just dark it is.

1326
01:04:10,080 --> 01:04:14,000
Speaker 2: Wild. Yeah, yeah, Okay.

1327
01:04:15,360 --> 01:04:18,000
Speaker 1: Let's keep going with the bad yes, and get into

1328
01:04:18,040 --> 01:04:22,080
Speaker 1: Karen's story about Jack Hunterwager, the Vienna Strangler.

1329
01:04:28,240 --> 01:04:33,160
Speaker 2: Okay, we're going back to We're going back to the

1330
01:04:33,240 --> 01:04:35,840
Speaker 2: area that you were just in from mine. What are

1331
01:04:35,880 --> 01:04:41,040
Speaker 2: the odds? So we were talking to somebody yesterday who said,

1332
01:04:41,080 --> 01:04:43,800
Speaker 2: do you guys take requests? And we were kind of like,

1333
01:04:44,440 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 2: but then he said, do you know about this guy?

1334
01:04:47,560 --> 01:04:49,400
Speaker 2: And the second he started talking, I knew who he

1335
01:04:49,440 --> 01:04:51,160
Speaker 2: was talking about, and I got that thing that I

1336
01:04:51,160 --> 01:04:54,040
Speaker 2: always get when people talk to me about cases, where

1337
01:04:54,080 --> 01:04:56,640
Speaker 2: if I know I just want to interrupt them immediately

1338
01:04:56,760 --> 01:04:58,400
Speaker 2: and be like, it's this, this, this, and this.

1339
01:04:58,480 --> 01:05:00,640
Speaker 1: But well, that's what I did, and you we're quiet,

1340
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:04,400
Speaker 1: so you're probably like writing it down.

1341
01:05:04,120 --> 01:05:07,080
Speaker 2: I was just mentally noting. But that's what I wanted

1342
01:05:07,120 --> 01:05:09,000
Speaker 2: to do, was just be like and I think at

1343
01:05:09,040 --> 01:05:11,919
Speaker 2: some point I did say something. But it is so

1344
01:05:12,200 --> 01:05:15,000
Speaker 2: hilariously frustrating when it's somebody's going like, have you ever

1345
01:05:15,000 --> 01:05:16,240
Speaker 2: heard of this thing? And then they tell you the

1346
01:05:16,280 --> 01:05:19,440
Speaker 2: whole story and you can't. You can't immediately just be

1347
01:05:19,520 --> 01:05:23,080
Speaker 2: like yes or correct them. So I knew if I

1348
01:05:23,120 --> 01:05:25,360
Speaker 2: had such strong feelings, I should tell that story.

1349
01:05:25,440 --> 01:05:28,080
Speaker 1: So awesome. I love it. That's like such a quick turnaround.

1350
01:05:28,080 --> 01:05:30,280
Speaker 1: I know I heard about it yesterday. Yeah, and look

1351
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:30,720
Speaker 1: at me now.

1352
01:05:30,960 --> 01:05:35,480
Speaker 2: So this is the story of Jack Unterwigger, the Vienna Strangler,

1353
01:05:36,000 --> 01:05:41,920
Speaker 2: and it's so crazy. This should be much more well

1354
01:05:41,960 --> 01:05:46,160
Speaker 2: known and talked about. It's so crazy. Okay, So essentially

1355
01:05:46,640 --> 01:05:48,920
Speaker 2: just to give you a little background on Vienna, Austria,

1356
01:05:49,120 --> 01:05:51,400
Speaker 2: which I can't tell you how many times I got

1357
01:05:51,400 --> 01:05:55,280
Speaker 2: confused while I was writing this, forgetting that Vienna is

1358
01:05:55,280 --> 01:05:59,400
Speaker 2: the city within Austria and not Austria as a city itself.

1359
01:06:00,440 --> 01:06:04,040
Speaker 2: So much to learn, so much, so many ways to grow.

1360
01:06:04,120 --> 01:06:06,400
Speaker 1: I feel like we're learning so much this episode. I

1361
01:06:06,400 --> 01:06:07,160
Speaker 1: mean growing.

1362
01:06:07,680 --> 01:06:10,000
Speaker 2: It's kind of like being in school. It's school time,

1363
01:06:11,480 --> 01:06:12,720
Speaker 2: it's school time of day.

1364
01:06:13,240 --> 01:06:15,800
Speaker 1: We're dotting our Everything's all right.

1365
01:06:15,880 --> 01:06:18,959
Speaker 2: So in two thousand and five, there was a study

1366
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:24,320
Speaker 2: of one hundred and twenty world cities and Vienna ranked

1367
01:06:25,240 --> 01:06:28,080
Speaker 2: a tied with Vancouver and San Francisco as the world's

1368
01:06:28,120 --> 01:06:33,160
Speaker 2: most livable city, and then in twenty eleven and twenty

1369
01:06:33,160 --> 01:06:39,680
Speaker 2: fifteen it was ranked second behind Melbourne, Australia, and it

1370
01:06:39,720 --> 01:06:45,760
Speaker 2: is It is classified by the United Nations Human Settlements

1371
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:49,360
Speaker 2: Program as the most prosperous city in the world. Wow,

1372
01:06:49,400 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 2: twenty twelve, twenty thirteen.

1373
01:06:50,760 --> 01:06:51,439
Speaker 1: Let's move there.

1374
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:56,360
Speaker 2: So it's fancy pansy. They don't they barely have that

1375
01:06:56,520 --> 01:06:59,959
Speaker 2: meant much crime? They have very little murder, very little.

1376
01:07:00,000 --> 01:07:03,200
Speaker 2: So on New Year's Eve nineteen ninety, a woman's body

1377
01:07:03,240 --> 01:07:06,160
Speaker 2: is found by hikers in the forest in western Austria.

1378
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:09,080
Speaker 2: Her name was Heidi Hammern. She was a thirty one

1379
01:07:09,240 --> 01:07:12,800
Speaker 2: year old sex worker. She was nude, face down, posed

1380
01:07:13,160 --> 01:07:15,280
Speaker 2: and had been strangled with her own stockings that were

1381
01:07:15,320 --> 01:07:17,080
Speaker 2: tied in a complex slip knot.

1382
01:07:17,280 --> 01:07:20,000
Speaker 1: Oh never wears. I'm never wearing stockings because that's all

1383
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:22,760
Speaker 1: they're used for, you know what I mean.

1384
01:07:24,360 --> 01:07:28,720
Speaker 2: In these stories? Absolutely? Yeah. So five lays days later,

1385
01:07:28,720 --> 01:07:31,640
Speaker 2: in the city of Grouts, hikers find the body of

1386
01:07:31,720 --> 01:07:36,400
Speaker 2: Brunhilda Masa in a forest. She's partially buried. She's been

1387
01:07:36,440 --> 01:07:38,680
Speaker 2: posed in the same manner as Heidi was. She was

1388
01:07:38,720 --> 01:07:41,160
Speaker 2: strangled with her own bra that was tied in a

1389
01:07:41,200 --> 01:07:42,080
Speaker 2: complex slipknot.

1390
01:07:42,120 --> 01:07:44,720
Speaker 1: I don't wear bras. I'm just taking off all my

1391
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 1: clothes for this episode.

1392
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:50,560
Speaker 2: There's all these solutions, solutions, no bras. Okay. So the

1393
01:07:50,600 --> 01:07:54,480
Speaker 2: police can't find any usable evidence on either of the bodies,

1394
01:07:54,800 --> 01:07:57,360
Speaker 2: except that Heidi had a bunch of red fibers all

1395
01:07:57,400 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 2: over her that didn't match anything that she was wearing.

1396
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:02,680
Speaker 2: They took those fibers put in a bag for later.

1397
01:08:05,680 --> 01:08:11,600
Speaker 2: But it was so uncommon that anything like this would

1398
01:08:11,600 --> 01:08:15,000
Speaker 2: happening would be happening, that these murders hit the papers

1399
01:08:15,040 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 2: and everybody in Austria is freaking out. So they have

1400
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:23,760
Speaker 2: a crime reporter named Jack Unterweger who takes to the

1401
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:27,200
Speaker 2: streets to talk to police and sex workers about these

1402
01:08:27,240 --> 01:08:35,200
Speaker 2: crimes for Austrian National Radio. Like it is, I was

1403
01:08:35,200 --> 01:08:37,240
Speaker 2: trying to say it fast, so you've noticed that, but

1404
01:08:38,400 --> 01:08:41,599
Speaker 2: he refused nothing on the streets. He interviews sex workers

1405
01:08:41,680 --> 01:08:44,240
Speaker 2: about the fear that they're feeling, and he goes to

1406
01:08:44,360 --> 01:08:50,040
Speaker 2: the police and talks to the investigators about whether or

1407
01:08:50,080 --> 01:08:51,840
Speaker 2: not they have any idea of who they're looking for,

1408
01:08:51,880 --> 01:08:53,759
Speaker 2: and the police tell him they have no idea.

1409
01:08:53,840 --> 01:08:55,040
Speaker 1: What a great ruse.

1410
01:08:56,520 --> 01:09:01,519
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, in Los Angeles, California, that's where we live, a

1411
01:09:01,600 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 2: thirty five year old sex worker named Shannon Exley is

1412
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:07,959
Speaker 2: found underneath an eighteen wheeler in Boyle Heights. She's posed,

1413
01:09:08,040 --> 01:09:11,720
Speaker 2: she's naked. She's been strangled with her own bra that's

1414
01:09:11,760 --> 01:09:13,439
Speaker 2: been tied with a complex slip knot.

1415
01:09:13,600 --> 01:09:15,599
Speaker 1: Boyle Heights is closed to us.

1416
01:09:15,840 --> 01:09:17,080
Speaker 2: Uh huh, very close.

1417
01:09:17,160 --> 01:09:17,639
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1418
01:09:19,439 --> 01:09:21,720
Speaker 2: Then so the police when they find they see this,

1419
01:09:21,760 --> 01:09:25,719
Speaker 2: there's no clues, there's nothing. So, uh, they look into

1420
01:09:26,040 --> 01:09:29,200
Speaker 2: any other unsolved murders with the same mo and they

1421
01:09:29,240 --> 01:09:33,880
Speaker 2: find two others. Uh. Both Irene Rodriguez who was found

1422
01:09:33,920 --> 01:09:36,479
Speaker 2: in Boyle Heights as well and a woman named Peggy

1423
01:09:36,520 --> 01:09:39,240
Speaker 2: Booth who is found in Malibu, Caanan, had both been

1424
01:09:39,240 --> 01:09:41,680
Speaker 2: strangled to death with their own clothing left out in

1425
01:09:41,720 --> 01:09:45,080
Speaker 2: the open. They were all sex workers. They had all

1426
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:51,519
Speaker 2: three been assaulted with tree branches. So immediately, yeah, immediately,

1427
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,120
Speaker 2: the LA detectives know that they've got a serial killer.

1428
01:09:54,439 --> 01:09:57,080
Speaker 2: That's three murders in fifteen days. So they're like, we

1429
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:00,599
Speaker 2: have a fucking cereal in the emergency. But then nothing

1430
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:03,640
Speaker 2: else happens in the case goes cold. Now let's go

1431
01:10:03,680 --> 01:10:07,439
Speaker 2: back to Vienna. Uh, there's two more sex workers' bodies

1432
01:10:07,439 --> 01:10:11,320
Speaker 2: that have been found, Karen Arra Glue and Sabine Motesi.

1433
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,920
Speaker 2: They were both also found in the forest, both strangled

1434
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,719
Speaker 2: with their own clothing that was tied in slip knots.

1435
01:10:19,400 --> 01:10:22,639
Speaker 2: So these every time it happens, it hits the paper

1436
01:10:22,640 --> 01:10:25,680
Speaker 2: and people freaking out. The pressure and the panic is

1437
01:10:25,720 --> 01:10:29,280
Speaker 2: building because this is just something that does not happen there.

1438
01:10:29,880 --> 01:10:34,040
Speaker 2: Uh So, finally, a retired detective named August Schenner from

1439
01:10:34,080 --> 01:10:37,840
Speaker 2: Salzburg is reading about these murders and he contacts the

1440
01:10:37,840 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 2: Austrian police, the Viennese police, I should say, and uh

1441
01:10:42,479 --> 01:10:47,720
Speaker 2: he tells them that Jack Unterweger, the crime reporter and

1442
01:10:47,760 --> 01:10:50,599
Speaker 2: the famous, the famous crime reporter, and he's a well

1443
01:10:50,640 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 2: known guy around Austria that he he reminds the police

1444
01:10:56,360 --> 01:11:00,360
Speaker 2: that Unterweger was is famous because he was conveyd of

1445
01:11:00,439 --> 01:11:08,280
Speaker 2: murder in nineteen seventy four. He August Schenner tells police,

1446
01:11:08,400 --> 01:11:11,160
Speaker 2: it's the same momo as the nineteen seventy four murder

1447
01:11:11,200 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 2: of these women that are being killed now. Except for

1448
01:11:14,400 --> 01:11:17,360
Speaker 2: the seventy four murder. He knew the woman personally, she

1449
01:11:17,400 --> 01:11:18,760
Speaker 2: was not a sex worker.

1450
01:11:19,240 --> 01:11:20,400
Speaker 1: But is he had of prison.

1451
01:11:20,720 --> 01:11:22,320
Speaker 2: But it's the same. Well, I'm going to tell you

1452
01:11:23,080 --> 01:11:29,960
Speaker 2: it's the same mo same not same everything. And Schenner says,

1453
01:11:30,800 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 2: I know you don't have any you're saying you don't

1454
01:11:32,439 --> 01:11:34,400
Speaker 2: have any suspects right now, you should at least take

1455
01:11:34,400 --> 01:11:37,280
Speaker 2: a look at his movements and see where he was

1456
01:11:37,640 --> 01:11:40,439
Speaker 2: all these different times in these different locations where these

1457
01:11:40,479 --> 01:11:44,160
Speaker 2: women's bodies were found totally, so the police start to

1458
01:11:44,200 --> 01:11:49,040
Speaker 2: look into Underwagger and and that trial. So basically he

1459
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:52,040
Speaker 2: as I said, he was tried and convicted in nineteen

1460
01:11:52,080 --> 01:11:57,479
Speaker 2: seventy fourth for the murder of this Let's see, her

1461
01:11:57,560 --> 01:12:02,080
Speaker 2: name was Margaret Schaeffer. He was he went to his

1462
01:12:02,280 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 2: the girl he was dating at the time. He went

1463
01:12:04,160 --> 01:12:08,120
Speaker 2: to her hometown to so she could visit her family

1464
01:12:08,680 --> 01:12:12,080
Speaker 2: in Germany, and they see as they drive into town,

1465
01:12:12,200 --> 01:12:16,320
Speaker 2: they see her school friend, Margaret Schaeffer, walking along the street.

1466
01:12:16,600 --> 01:12:20,880
Speaker 2: So at that moment, Jack Unterweger decides that they're going

1467
01:12:20,960 --> 01:12:26,800
Speaker 2: to rob her and her parents. So he ends up

1468
01:12:28,040 --> 01:12:31,200
Speaker 2: taking her out to the forest, murdering, attacking her, raping her,

1469
01:12:31,280 --> 01:12:34,720
Speaker 2: murdering her, strangling her with her un clothes, and he

1470
01:12:35,160 --> 01:12:40,200
Speaker 2: and uh, his girlfriend spills the beans on the whole murder,

1471
01:12:40,200 --> 01:12:42,800
Speaker 2: and he ends up going to jail. So while he's

1472
01:12:42,800 --> 01:12:45,760
Speaker 2: in jail, he goes into jail and he can't read

1473
01:12:45,800 --> 01:12:50,200
Speaker 2: or write. He's had a horrible childhood his mother. He

1474
01:12:50,320 --> 01:12:53,519
Speaker 2: alleges his mother was a prostitute or a sex worker. Sorry,

1475
01:12:54,240 --> 01:12:56,639
Speaker 2: the word prostitute is used a lot in this case,

1476
01:12:56,720 --> 01:13:01,360
Speaker 2: so uh but uh. He says that she was a prostitute.

1477
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:06,200
Speaker 2: She gave him up to his alcoholic, horrible grandfather when

1478
01:13:06,240 --> 01:13:08,479
Speaker 2: he was little and she took off. He never knew

1479
01:13:08,520 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 2: his father. They think his father was an American soldier,

1480
01:13:13,280 --> 01:13:17,760
Speaker 2: and he has to live as a child, live with

1481
01:13:17,840 --> 01:13:21,840
Speaker 2: this alcoholic grandfather in a cabin in the woods, a

1482
01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:25,679
Speaker 2: one room cabin where he is constantly bringing girlfriends and

1483
01:13:25,720 --> 01:13:28,760
Speaker 2: sex workers back to the cabin to have sex while

1484
01:13:28,760 --> 01:13:33,800
Speaker 2: he's in the room. That's his childhood when he gets older.

1485
01:13:34,200 --> 01:13:37,599
Speaker 2: So then finally the state takes him out of that situation.

1486
01:13:37,680 --> 01:13:40,280
Speaker 2: He goes from foster Home to Foster home, then he

1487
01:13:42,080 --> 01:13:45,920
Speaker 2: goes to juvie for a little while. He finally gets out,

1488
01:13:47,160 --> 01:13:51,519
Speaker 2: and between nineteen sixty six and nineteen seventy nine, he's

1489
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:56,479
Speaker 2: convicted sixteen times of sexual assaults and he spends most

1490
01:13:56,520 --> 01:14:00,000
Speaker 2: of that period of time, it was like nine years

1491
01:14:00,240 --> 01:14:03,719
Speaker 2: in jail. So when he finally gets out of jail,

1492
01:14:04,040 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 2: that's when he finds the girlfriend, starts traveling all over

1493
01:14:08,160 --> 01:14:11,880
Speaker 2: and that's when he ends up killing Margaret Schaeffer. So

1494
01:14:11,960 --> 01:14:17,439
Speaker 2: he goes to jail illiterate, but he while there teaches himself.

1495
01:14:17,960 --> 01:14:22,080
Speaker 2: He's he's convicted and given a life sentence, and in

1496
01:14:22,200 --> 01:14:26,160
Speaker 2: that sorry in that trial, he's declared insane by a

1497
01:14:26,160 --> 01:14:29,719
Speaker 2: psychologist who describes him as being sexually a sexually sadistic

1498
01:14:29,760 --> 01:14:34,519
Speaker 2: psychopath with narcissistic and histrionic tendencies, prone to fits of

1499
01:14:34,640 --> 01:14:40,280
Speaker 2: rage and anger. And that psychologist said he's an incorrigible perpetrator.

1500
01:14:40,920 --> 01:14:44,080
Speaker 2: So he goes to jail. And when he's in jail,

1501
01:14:44,120 --> 01:14:46,280
Speaker 2: I've said this now three times, he can't read or write.

1502
01:14:46,320 --> 01:14:48,920
Speaker 2: So he teaches himself to read and write in jail,

1503
01:14:49,800 --> 01:14:53,960
Speaker 2: and he starts writing plays, he starts writing poems, and

1504
01:14:54,000 --> 01:14:57,439
Speaker 2: he starts writing children's stories. And at the same time,

1505
01:14:57,560 --> 01:15:01,120
Speaker 2: there was this movement in Austria for prison form and

1506
01:15:01,200 --> 01:15:04,240
Speaker 2: one of the like the approach of their prison reform

1507
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:09,280
Speaker 2: was called resocialization. So it's the idea that if somebody

1508
01:15:09,320 --> 01:15:12,000
Speaker 2: is in jail, they understand what they've done, that they've

1509
01:15:12,000 --> 01:15:14,519
Speaker 2: done wrong, that they should have a chance to make

1510
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:19,640
Speaker 2: good on that, and and.

1511
01:15:17,680 --> 01:15:20,880
Speaker 1: So that's what jail is. Prison is for right, So

1512
01:15:20,960 --> 01:15:22,000
Speaker 1: don't get to do that.

1513
01:15:22,720 --> 01:15:27,240
Speaker 2: So they're basically it's this kind of it's very the

1514
01:15:27,280 --> 01:15:30,880
Speaker 2: intell you know, the intellectuals of the country were kind

1515
01:15:30,920 --> 01:15:32,880
Speaker 2: of like, this is what needs to happen. We need

1516
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:36,200
Speaker 2: to give people a chance, and and through the arts

1517
01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:41,000
Speaker 2: and through self expression they can basically reform themselves. And

1518
01:15:41,080 --> 01:15:43,840
Speaker 2: so but Jack, they don't.

1519
01:15:43,960 --> 01:15:47,360
Speaker 1: But that doesn't matter because they still committed this crime.

1520
01:15:49,120 --> 01:15:51,639
Speaker 2: Stress. Sorry, go on, no, no, no, you're you're exactly

1521
01:15:51,760 --> 01:15:55,160
Speaker 2: right off. But it's that old I think it's back

1522
01:15:55,320 --> 01:15:59,600
Speaker 2: before they understood serial killers. They understood these these personalities

1523
01:15:59,800 --> 01:16:03,320
Speaker 2: and and what that actually means, how somebody can be

1524
01:16:03,439 --> 01:16:07,280
Speaker 2: actually totally unrepentant and have no conscience, so they don't

1525
01:16:07,320 --> 01:16:09,840
Speaker 2: of course they're not sitting there going I shouldn't have

1526
01:16:09,920 --> 01:16:11,880
Speaker 2: done that. I promise I'm not going to do it again,

1527
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:12,840
Speaker 2: Like that's not happened.

1528
01:16:13,200 --> 01:16:16,000
Speaker 1: I think that mindset that that people had back then,

1529
01:16:16,040 --> 01:16:19,160
Speaker 1: where it's like anyone could commit these crimes not thinking that. No,

1530
01:16:19,200 --> 01:16:22,080
Speaker 1: it's this you know, those people who were saying that

1531
01:16:22,520 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 1: don't understand the urge to kill or to sexually assault

1532
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,080
Speaker 1: someone because you know, they don't have that.

1533
01:16:30,240 --> 01:16:32,519
Speaker 2: So they're they're grouping all criminals together, yeah, or they're

1534
01:16:32,520 --> 01:16:36,280
Speaker 2: griving all humans together and mental you know, capacities and

1535
01:16:36,400 --> 01:16:42,200
Speaker 2: fucking see psychopaths. So there's Uh, there's a lot of

1536
01:16:42,240 --> 01:16:44,760
Speaker 2: people who theorize that when he knew that this was

1537
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:47,200
Speaker 2: the reform, because the reform started before he went to jail,

1538
01:16:47,240 --> 01:16:50,320
Speaker 2: before any of that happen, so he knew that was

1539
01:16:50,320 --> 01:16:53,000
Speaker 2: something they were looking towards. So he gets into jail

1540
01:16:53,040 --> 01:16:55,280
Speaker 2: and is basically like, this is the this is the

1541
01:16:55,320 --> 01:16:57,680
Speaker 2: prisoner I'm going to be, and so instead of being

1542
01:16:57,760 --> 01:17:00,000
Speaker 2: here for a life sentence, I'm going to get myself

1543
01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:03,800
Speaker 2: out by playing straight into the need for this program

1544
01:17:03,840 --> 01:17:05,880
Speaker 2: and people's need for this program to be real and

1545
01:17:05,960 --> 01:17:10,240
Speaker 2: to work. So while he's in jail, he writes an

1546
01:17:10,280 --> 01:17:14,720
Speaker 2: autobiography called Purgatory. I can't say the German version of

1547
01:17:14,760 --> 01:17:19,840
Speaker 2: that word because it's also crazy, And that autobiography becomes

1548
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:24,040
Speaker 2: a hit, and a director even makes a movie of it.

1549
01:17:24,040 --> 01:17:28,439
Speaker 2: It's basically his life story, and there's this ground swell

1550
01:17:28,479 --> 01:17:31,200
Speaker 2: of support for him and his art and his expression

1551
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:33,920
Speaker 2: and the proof that he can be resocialized and that

1552
01:17:33,960 --> 01:17:38,080
Speaker 2: this can work. In nineteen eighty five, they start up

1553
01:17:38,160 --> 01:17:40,200
Speaker 2: the certain group of people start up a demand for

1554
01:17:40,240 --> 01:17:44,920
Speaker 2: his early release. So it's all actually, one could say,

1555
01:17:45,200 --> 01:17:48,760
Speaker 2: if that was the plan, it's going perfectly for him,

1556
01:17:49,840 --> 01:17:53,679
Speaker 2: and he basically, in May of nineteen ninety, he gets

1557
01:17:53,720 --> 01:17:56,879
Speaker 2: released from prison after serving fifteen years of a life sentence.

1558
01:17:58,120 --> 01:18:02,240
Speaker 2: Uh huh. Immediately he gets released in prison and he

1559
01:18:02,320 --> 01:18:06,400
Speaker 2: becomes a fixture on television talk shows. He poses as

1560
01:18:06,439 --> 01:18:11,040
Speaker 2: the model of prison prison rehabilitation. He gets invited to

1561
01:18:11,080 --> 01:18:16,120
Speaker 2: high society cocktail parties. His autobiography is taught in schools.

1562
01:18:16,240 --> 01:18:18,960
Speaker 2: His stories for children are performed on the radio.

1563
01:18:19,200 --> 01:18:22,040
Speaker 1: What in the fuck? Uh huh. The woman who got

1564
01:18:22,120 --> 01:18:26,000
Speaker 1: killed by him is like, hey, I would be still

1565
01:18:26,040 --> 01:18:27,720
Speaker 1: alive if this guy.

1566
01:18:27,400 --> 01:18:32,519
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, So he he actually was there. There's clips

1567
01:18:32,520 --> 01:18:36,280
Speaker 2: of him on I think it was called Cafe two

1568
01:18:36,600 --> 01:18:38,360
Speaker 2: now I can't remember what the name of the show is.

1569
01:18:38,360 --> 01:18:42,640
Speaker 2: But it's literally a circle of men in like turtlenecks

1570
01:18:42,720 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 2: and it's like, you know, sit jacket and turtleneck, the

1571
01:18:45,680 --> 01:18:48,519
Speaker 2: very clearly like the intelligencia, and they're just talking about

1572
01:18:48,560 --> 01:18:51,639
Speaker 2: prison reform. And he's there in an all white silk suit.

1573
01:18:53,600 --> 01:18:57,000
Speaker 2: He looks like Steve Martin doing a character in a movie.

1574
01:18:57,439 --> 01:19:00,280
Speaker 2: And he's there to give his first hand account of

1575
01:19:00,320 --> 01:19:03,240
Speaker 2: the reality of prison reform to school them. Yeah, to

1576
01:19:03,280 --> 01:19:06,360
Speaker 2: tell them how it really is. And this made this

1577
01:19:06,400 --> 01:19:09,080
Speaker 2: is what everybody wanted, and he was doing it, and

1578
01:19:09,120 --> 01:19:12,360
Speaker 2: it was all like, this is how society should truly be.

1579
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:14,519
Speaker 1: Diabolical man.

1580
01:19:15,040 --> 01:19:19,559
Speaker 2: He also he made a lot of money because of

1581
01:19:19,600 --> 01:19:23,679
Speaker 2: all of these successes. He wore designer clothes, the white

1582
01:19:23,720 --> 01:19:26,559
Speaker 2: silk suit, which I enjoyed. He's wearing it in a

1583
01:19:26,560 --> 01:19:28,720
Speaker 2: lot of clips. He also drove a Ford Mustang with

1584
01:19:28,760 --> 01:19:31,200
Speaker 2: the license plate jack one, which I don't know why.

1585
01:19:31,200 --> 01:19:34,840
Speaker 2: I think that's so hilarious is the number one.

1586
01:19:35,880 --> 01:19:37,439
Speaker 1: I think it's like he fucking won.

1587
01:19:37,600 --> 01:19:41,559
Speaker 2: Well, you're exactly right, because he did. He gets He

1588
01:19:41,600 --> 01:19:44,840
Speaker 2: gets an eighteen year old girlfriend. So in September of

1589
01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:47,160
Speaker 2: the same year, he's released in May. In September of

1590
01:19:47,160 --> 01:19:50,599
Speaker 2: that year, some people walking along the Vitava River near

1591
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:54,960
Speaker 2: Prague find the body of Blanca Bakhova. She's not a

1592
01:19:55,000 --> 01:19:59,439
Speaker 2: sex worker, she was just nearby meeting friends for a drink.

1593
01:20:00,760 --> 01:20:02,880
Speaker 2: And this is four months after he has been released

1594
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:07,280
Speaker 2: from prison and is living this life. So on the

1595
01:20:07,360 --> 01:20:11,920
Speaker 2: advice of the man from Salzburg, sorry turn the page.

1596
01:20:14,280 --> 01:20:19,679
Speaker 2: On the advice of our August Schenner, right, the police

1597
01:20:19,720 --> 01:20:22,559
Speaker 2: get a search warrant and an arrest warrant. They start

1598
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:29,200
Speaker 2: looking at jack hunger. Now I've lost every jack hunger

1599
01:20:29,240 --> 01:20:34,599
Speaker 2: watchers movements. And they see that he coincidentally has been

1600
01:20:34,760 --> 01:20:37,320
Speaker 2: in all of the towns where these women have been

1601
01:20:37,400 --> 01:20:40,519
Speaker 2: murdered when they disappear. So they're starting to track it

1602
01:20:40,600 --> 01:20:43,000
Speaker 2: and they're like, oh, this guy is exactly right, Like

1603
01:20:43,080 --> 01:20:46,280
Speaker 2: this is serious. So they get a warrant to search

1604
01:20:46,320 --> 01:20:48,439
Speaker 2: his home and his an arrest warrant, but when they

1605
01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:51,519
Speaker 2: get to his house, he's not there. So they start

1606
01:20:52,320 --> 01:20:54,639
Speaker 2: looking through his house. They find evidence that he had

1607
01:20:54,640 --> 01:20:57,679
Speaker 2: gone to Prague at the same time as Bokhova's death

1608
01:20:58,120 --> 01:21:02,240
Speaker 2: to do research on an article about prostitution, and he

1609
01:21:02,360 --> 01:21:05,200
Speaker 2: was placed at a cafe five hundred meters away from

1610
01:21:05,200 --> 01:21:08,120
Speaker 2: where she was last seen the night she disappeared. They

1611
01:21:08,160 --> 01:21:11,479
Speaker 2: also find a red scarf and they bag that shit up.

1612
01:21:12,520 --> 01:21:14,800
Speaker 2: So one detective that's looking around his house sees that

1613
01:21:14,840 --> 01:21:18,439
Speaker 2: he has keepsakes from a recent trip to La and

1614
01:21:18,520 --> 01:21:21,240
Speaker 2: so they're like, what was he doing in La? So

1615
01:21:21,280 --> 01:21:24,000
Speaker 2: they call the LAPD and they ask if they have

1616
01:21:24,040 --> 01:21:29,040
Speaker 2: any unsolved strangling sex worker homicides and LAPD's like, we

1617
01:21:29,160 --> 01:21:30,000
Speaker 2: got fucking three.

1618
01:21:30,400 --> 01:21:34,360
Speaker 1: Fuck so but here's this sorry ninety ish, what's that?

1619
01:21:34,520 --> 01:21:35,760
Speaker 1: What ears this ninety one.

1620
01:21:35,800 --> 01:21:39,280
Speaker 2: Okay, So it turns out that Jack had been hired

1621
01:21:39,280 --> 01:21:42,600
Speaker 2: by an Austrian magazine to write an article on prostitution

1622
01:21:42,720 --> 01:21:47,639
Speaker 2: in America. So he went to la and he called

1623
01:21:47,680 --> 01:21:50,519
Speaker 2: up the LAPD. They found in his apartment, They found

1624
01:21:50,520 --> 01:21:53,799
Speaker 2: a visitors pass for the LAPD headquarters, and they found

1625
01:21:54,520 --> 01:21:57,200
Speaker 2: he had gone on a ride along with some officers

1626
01:21:57,240 --> 01:21:59,920
Speaker 2: downtown and on that ride along, he asked them where

1627
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,599
Speaker 2: the sex worker, where the prostitutes work and are and

1628
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:08,400
Speaker 2: they drove him by the spot where they all stood around,

1629
01:22:08,479 --> 01:22:11,760
Speaker 2: so they basically pointed out his targets.

1630
01:22:11,960 --> 01:22:12,920
Speaker 1: Oh my god.

1631
01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:15,920
Speaker 2: And that article was published in an Austrian magazine in

1632
01:22:15,960 --> 01:22:18,800
Speaker 2: December of nineteen ninety one. So he actually really was

1633
01:22:18,920 --> 01:22:23,040
Speaker 2: a calumnist, but he was reporting on the murders he

1634
01:22:23,240 --> 01:22:23,799
Speaker 2: was doing.

1635
01:22:24,080 --> 01:22:27,120
Speaker 1: Can we please get an original copy of.

1636
01:22:27,000 --> 01:22:29,599
Speaker 2: That article of you want it in German?

1637
01:22:30,200 --> 01:22:31,439
Speaker 1: Oh? No, I guess not.

1638
01:22:32,240 --> 01:22:34,519
Speaker 2: Yes, I thought that's what he meant, like, can we

1639
01:22:34,680 --> 01:22:35,200
Speaker 2: just see it?

1640
01:22:35,600 --> 01:22:37,880
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was you know what, Yes, I'm gonna go.

1641
01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:39,599
Speaker 2: Okay, yes, we'll go all the way there.

1642
01:22:39,720 --> 01:22:40,439
Speaker 1: I'm going there.

1643
01:22:40,720 --> 01:22:43,720
Speaker 2: He also stayed at the Cecil Hotel. That's where he

1644
01:22:43,840 --> 01:22:45,200
Speaker 2: was staying the whole time.

1645
01:22:45,439 --> 01:22:47,880
Speaker 1: I just gear the shit out of me because I oh,

1646
01:22:47,960 --> 01:22:51,080
Speaker 1: my god, The Cecil, Yeah, a good friend, The Cecil.

1647
01:22:51,000 --> 01:22:55,040
Speaker 2: The Cecil Hotel where everything bad happens, where islam Elisa

1648
01:22:55,120 --> 01:22:57,519
Speaker 2: Lamb was found dead in the water tank, but also

1649
01:22:57,600 --> 01:22:59,800
Speaker 2: Richard Ramirez stayed there while he was doing a little

1650
01:22:59,840 --> 01:23:04,800
Speaker 2: kill in Los Angeles. It's so hilariously terrible, but it

1651
01:23:04,880 --> 01:23:08,439
Speaker 2: is right down there in the worst of, yes, the

1652
01:23:08,479 --> 01:23:11,720
Speaker 2: worst things that are happening in Los Angeles. The Cecil

1653
01:23:11,800 --> 01:23:13,479
Speaker 2: Hotel is like centrally located.

1654
01:23:13,560 --> 01:23:16,720
Speaker 1: I love trying to rebrand themselves by calling themselves like

1655
01:23:17,040 --> 01:23:19,439
Speaker 1: stay on Maine, Stay on Maine. Yeah, no, honey.

1656
01:23:19,439 --> 01:23:21,600
Speaker 2: But the funniest thing is that sign is still up

1657
01:23:21,640 --> 01:23:25,080
Speaker 2: that says Hotel Cecil. It reads Hotel Cecil down like that,

1658
01:23:25,240 --> 01:23:28,559
Speaker 2: and the like vintage painting on the side that says

1659
01:23:29,160 --> 01:23:32,880
Speaker 2: Cecil Hotel or whatever. They can't I think they can't change.

1660
01:23:33,320 --> 01:23:35,840
Speaker 2: I mean that's my guess because there. We just drove

1661
01:23:35,880 --> 01:23:37,599
Speaker 2: by there the other night and we looked at it

1662
01:23:37,640 --> 01:23:38,680
Speaker 2: and that's all still up.

1663
01:23:38,840 --> 01:23:41,240
Speaker 1: Yes or no. We do a special episode from a

1664
01:23:41,320 --> 01:23:45,240
Speaker 1: room in the Cecil Hotel. Lisa Lamb, Stayton or Richard

1665
01:23:45,240 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 1: Emer Staateen or the Sky State. Yes, Stephen, can you

1666
01:23:49,200 --> 01:23:49,519
Speaker 1: write that.

1667
01:23:49,520 --> 01:23:54,360
Speaker 2: Down Stephen ideas and then we write in the dark

1668
01:23:54,400 --> 01:24:00,360
Speaker 2: German articles, listen for Austrian magazines, send them a we

1669
01:24:00,439 --> 01:24:02,360
Speaker 2: just do Google Translate and send him over.

1670
01:24:02,479 --> 01:24:05,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I want it in my hand like paper. Okay,

1671
01:24:05,960 --> 01:24:10,880
Speaker 1: good right, we know what you want to Let's move on. Well,

1672
01:24:10,960 --> 01:24:15,400
Speaker 1: so okay, so he so they put all of it together,

1673
01:24:15,680 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 1: and they put all of it. It's circumstantial evidence, but

1674
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:20,240
Speaker 1: they're putting all of it together. And there's that there's

1675
01:24:20,240 --> 01:24:22,400
Speaker 1: that guy that you see in every special that was

1676
01:24:22,439 --> 01:24:23,719
Speaker 1: in the I I watched.

1677
01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:25,960
Speaker 2: Oh shit, I've done it again. I didn't quote this

1678
01:24:26,000 --> 01:24:28,240
Speaker 2: at the top, but I got all of this from

1679
01:24:28,520 --> 01:24:32,960
Speaker 2: the Biography Channel. But this is different. It's all. It's all.

1680
01:24:33,000 --> 01:24:35,519
Speaker 1: They've got information from a place, and then you put it.

1681
01:24:35,400 --> 01:24:38,400
Speaker 2: In several places your story me too. I mean, you're

1682
01:24:38,400 --> 01:24:41,519
Speaker 2: gonna fucking make it up. You know, this is all

1683
01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 2: from the internet. The Biography Channel. Uh is the first

1684
01:24:46,240 --> 01:24:48,200
Speaker 2: special I watched on this and it's that thing in

1685
01:24:48,400 --> 01:24:51,160
Speaker 2: it reminded me when it when the title comes up,

1686
01:24:51,280 --> 01:24:54,720
Speaker 2: it starts Biography Channel. So you're just watching and then

1687
01:24:54,800 --> 01:25:00,000
Speaker 2: it's Jack Unterweger, and I remembered normally watching like when

1688
01:25:00,000 --> 01:25:02,120
Speaker 2: and the biography channel specials would come up. I'd be

1689
01:25:02,160 --> 01:25:04,759
Speaker 2: like sitting there and then it would be like Riba

1690
01:25:04,880 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 2: Macintel or maybe like that, I don't want to watch this.

1691
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:09,519
Speaker 2: But then it's like if one of those came up

1692
01:25:09,680 --> 01:25:12,479
Speaker 2: in real time, naturally, it was the most exciting thing

1693
01:25:12,520 --> 01:25:15,880
Speaker 2: in the world. Yes, when it was before specialized true

1694
01:25:15,920 --> 01:25:18,240
Speaker 2: crime television was really as popular as it is now.

1695
01:25:18,160 --> 01:25:19,920
Speaker 1: And before DVR, so you kind of didn't know what

1696
01:25:20,040 --> 01:25:21,720
Speaker 1: was going to be on. Yes, just kind of like

1697
01:25:21,920 --> 01:25:24,400
Speaker 1: catch it, catch you had to be there listen.

1698
01:25:24,760 --> 01:25:28,320
Speaker 2: So he he goes on to Whego, goes on the

1699
01:25:28,400 --> 01:25:30,360
Speaker 2: Lamb with his eighteen year old girlfriend. They end up

1700
01:25:30,400 --> 01:25:30,959
Speaker 2: in Miami.

1701
01:25:32,320 --> 01:25:33,280
Speaker 1: No, I'm kidding Miami.

1702
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:38,840
Speaker 2: Uh to do a show there now? And he also

1703
01:25:38,960 --> 01:25:40,880
Speaker 2: he starts calling into the radio station that he used

1704
01:25:40,880 --> 01:25:43,800
Speaker 2: to work for, explaining to them that he's innocent. He's

1705
01:25:43,800 --> 01:25:47,880
Speaker 2: being framed by the cops. You know, he's just the

1706
01:25:47,920 --> 01:25:51,040
Speaker 2: most you know, he looks bad because of that old murder,

1707
01:25:51,040 --> 01:25:53,559
Speaker 2: but blah blah blah. He's like calling in and trying

1708
01:25:53,600 --> 01:25:57,320
Speaker 2: to make a case for himself. And there actually are

1709
01:25:57,439 --> 01:26:00,200
Speaker 2: people that are on his side because there's because they've

1710
01:26:00,479 --> 01:26:02,960
Speaker 2: bought into the celebrity of him so hard that like

1711
01:26:03,160 --> 01:26:04,519
Speaker 2: they can't turn around now.

1712
01:26:04,400 --> 01:26:07,720
Speaker 1: Sure they can't admit that, loopsie. Yeah, and because then

1713
01:26:07,760 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 1: you're also kind of responsible for those women getting murdered

1714
01:26:11,120 --> 01:26:12,719
Speaker 1: in a like weird roundabout way.

1715
01:26:12,880 --> 01:26:16,040
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, there's definitely guilt. Yeah, there's definitely guilt. You are,

1716
01:26:16,160 --> 01:26:18,360
Speaker 2: but you would think you are, you would, yeah, you'd

1717
01:26:18,439 --> 01:26:20,800
Speaker 2: have you'd feel fucking terrible for that.

1718
01:26:21,040 --> 01:26:21,280
Speaker 1: Yes.

1719
01:26:22,439 --> 01:26:25,880
Speaker 2: So this guy from the FBI helps Vienna develop what

1720
01:26:25,920 --> 01:26:29,120
Speaker 2: they call a crime signature, and his crime signature is

1721
01:26:30,280 --> 01:26:36,680
Speaker 2: murdering strangulation with ligature made of clothing tied with complex

1722
01:26:36,840 --> 01:26:44,639
Speaker 2: slip knots, and so they, uh, they go to trial.

1723
01:26:44,840 --> 01:26:46,920
Speaker 2: Oh when he gets arrested, he gets put in jail,

1724
01:26:47,080 --> 01:26:50,080
Speaker 2: he slits his wrists, and there's even more support for

1725
01:26:50,160 --> 01:26:53,439
Speaker 2: him and more empathy for him. So he finally goes

1726
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:58,280
Speaker 2: to trial ding dongs, and uh it's two months later

1727
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:01,000
Speaker 2: after his arrest and his defense says, why would I

1728
01:27:01,080 --> 01:27:03,800
Speaker 2: kill women? I have a very healthy sex life. I've

1729
01:27:04,000 --> 01:27:06,600
Speaker 2: slept with over one hundred and fifty women, which is

1730
01:27:06,680 --> 01:27:09,439
Speaker 2: exactly the number that Alex Jones said when he was

1731
01:27:09,479 --> 01:27:11,880
Speaker 2: talking about how many women he slept with really, which

1732
01:27:11,920 --> 01:27:14,240
Speaker 2: I think is kind of funny. One hundred and fifty

1733
01:27:14,400 --> 01:27:19,920
Speaker 2: is like just ridiculous. Enough, Yeah, and as if it

1734
01:27:19,920 --> 01:27:21,560
Speaker 2: has any one has anything to do with you.

1735
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:22,120
Speaker 1: Totally.

1736
01:27:22,160 --> 01:27:23,840
Speaker 2: I love women. Why would I kill women?

1737
01:27:23,960 --> 01:27:26,600
Speaker 1: Right? We know I don't need to have sex, yes, right,

1738
01:27:26,600 --> 01:27:28,720
Speaker 1: I don't need to sexually assault one women they give

1739
01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:30,680
Speaker 1: it to me. He's like, oh, yeah, that's all it

1740
01:27:30,760 --> 01:27:32,920
Speaker 1: is about, is yeah, sexual gratification?

1741
01:27:33,160 --> 01:27:33,320
Speaker 3: Right?

1742
01:27:33,479 --> 01:27:39,360
Speaker 2: No, no, you fucking lunatic. So up until they say

1743
01:27:39,479 --> 01:27:42,599
Speaker 2: up until kind of like this turning point, he did

1744
01:27:42,640 --> 01:27:46,559
Speaker 2: have those supporters weren't relenting until the guy from the

1745
01:27:46,680 --> 01:27:49,920
Speaker 2: FBI came and pointed out the crime signature. And they

1746
01:27:50,000 --> 01:27:52,759
Speaker 2: had all these pieces of clothing from all the murders,

1747
01:27:52,960 --> 01:27:54,680
Speaker 2: and he just held them up one after the other

1748
01:27:54,720 --> 01:27:58,800
Speaker 2: and was like complex slipknot complex slipnot on every single one.

1749
01:27:58,920 --> 01:28:01,960
Speaker 2: And that's when the room turned and it all went

1750
01:28:03,400 --> 01:28:08,120
Speaker 2: different for him. He was convicted of nine of eleven

1751
01:28:08,200 --> 01:28:14,479
Speaker 2: murders of sex workers in La La Prague, and Vienna,

1752
01:28:16,000 --> 01:28:18,080
Speaker 2: and in June of nineteen ninety four, he was sentenced

1753
01:28:18,120 --> 01:28:21,080
Speaker 2: to life without the possibility of parole. And that night

1754
01:28:21,160 --> 01:28:27,120
Speaker 2: he committed suicide in jail. And the interesting thing is

1755
01:28:27,160 --> 01:28:31,640
Speaker 2: that he hung himself with shoelaces and the band, the

1756
01:28:31,760 --> 01:28:35,120
Speaker 2: rope band from his sweatpants and he used a complex

1757
01:28:35,160 --> 01:28:38,320
Speaker 2: slipknot to tie tuck. Uh huh oh.

1758
01:28:38,360 --> 01:28:40,799
Speaker 1: I was holding my breath for that one. Yeah, oh

1759
01:28:40,840 --> 01:28:41,360
Speaker 1: my god.

1760
01:28:41,600 --> 01:28:45,960
Speaker 2: Yes. They also matched the red fibers on highdi right,

1761
01:28:46,120 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 2: matched the scarf that they got out of his apartment.

1762
01:28:48,600 --> 01:28:53,240
Speaker 2: Like everything was was adding up, but it's all circumstantial, circumstantial, circumstantial.

1763
01:28:53,320 --> 01:28:57,519
Speaker 2: So when they's that's why LA didn't try to prosecute

1764
01:28:57,520 --> 01:28:59,240
Speaker 2: it is because there was nothing. They were like, you've

1765
01:28:59,240 --> 01:29:03,080
Speaker 2: got ms or eight murders over there. We're not going

1766
01:29:03,160 --> 01:29:05,320
Speaker 2: to be able to get him because everything over here

1767
01:29:05,439 --> 01:29:09,000
Speaker 2: is circumstantial and not there's nothing solid. It's all just

1768
01:29:09,120 --> 01:29:13,120
Speaker 2: like basically, these three horrible murders that match exactly while

1769
01:29:13,160 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 2: he was there and visiting as I am.

1770
01:29:16,479 --> 01:29:20,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, fuck man, how have I never fucking heard of him?

1771
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:22,519
Speaker 2: It's such a fascinating case. There's way more to read,

1772
01:29:22,560 --> 01:29:26,960
Speaker 2: but like the idea that while he was murdering sex

1773
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:30,800
Speaker 2: workers and then writing columns about the murderer and the

1774
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:33,439
Speaker 2: murders and asking people how they felt, and.

1775
01:29:33,400 --> 01:29:36,240
Speaker 1: He was asking everything about like acknowledging and writing about

1776
01:29:36,280 --> 01:29:36,880
Speaker 1: the murder.

1777
01:29:37,000 --> 01:29:42,400
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, he was basically and foe investigating his own crime.

1778
01:29:43,200 --> 01:29:45,760
Speaker 2: It's amazing and oh that was the thing.

1779
01:29:45,840 --> 01:29:46,680
Speaker 1: That's stupid.

1780
01:29:46,840 --> 01:29:49,080
Speaker 2: I was trying to find this. But one of the

1781
01:29:49,120 --> 01:29:55,720
Speaker 2: experts talking about him said, the thing about the psychopaths,

1782
01:29:55,800 --> 01:29:58,719
Speaker 2: the kind of psychopath that he is, is you stop

1783
01:29:58,760 --> 01:30:01,880
Speaker 2: focusing on what they do, and they make you focus

1784
01:30:02,000 --> 01:30:05,560
Speaker 2: on them. And that's how that like it's cult of personality.

1785
01:30:05,720 --> 01:30:10,240
Speaker 2: So when he was in jail, the fact that he

1786
01:30:10,360 --> 01:30:14,439
Speaker 2: had strangled a young woman faded away and it all

1787
01:30:14,479 --> 01:30:16,840
Speaker 2: became about me and my life and how hard it's

1788
01:30:16,880 --> 01:30:18,880
Speaker 2: been for me. And read my autobiography and this is

1789
01:30:18,880 --> 01:30:19,400
Speaker 2: so sad.

1790
01:30:19,520 --> 01:30:22,040
Speaker 1: He never said like I made a mistake and killed

1791
01:30:22,040 --> 01:30:23,840
Speaker 1: the no, no, no thing. It was like, don't even

1792
01:30:23,880 --> 01:30:24,439
Speaker 1: point that out.

1793
01:30:24,640 --> 01:30:28,639
Speaker 2: No, it was all about him and then and he

1794
01:30:28,760 --> 01:30:33,280
Speaker 2: was he was smart enough and manipulate enough, manipulative enough

1795
01:30:33,320 --> 01:30:35,800
Speaker 2: to play the part of the person they were looking for,

1796
01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:38,679
Speaker 2: you know, to really kind of like be the face

1797
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:42,680
Speaker 2: of and spearhead this resocialization plan. He was just like,

1798
01:30:42,840 --> 01:30:43,840
Speaker 2: I'm going to be that guy.

1799
01:30:44,120 --> 01:30:47,280
Speaker 1: Do you think that when you know, when when people

1800
01:30:47,360 --> 01:30:49,920
Speaker 1: get convicted of murder and then they get to read

1801
01:30:49,920 --> 01:30:51,880
Speaker 1: a letter to the judge or to the family and

1802
01:30:51,960 --> 01:30:54,800
Speaker 1: they just talk about themselves. That's the same kind of

1803
01:30:54,880 --> 01:30:57,920
Speaker 1: thing instead of like apologizing to the family, yeah, or

1804
01:30:58,040 --> 01:31:01,240
Speaker 1: saying I made a mistake or whatever. Yes, and that's

1805
01:31:01,320 --> 01:31:03,880
Speaker 1: like I had a hard childhood I was. That's the

1806
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:06,400
Speaker 1: same thing. Wy, I've always pissed me off whenever I

1807
01:31:06,439 --> 01:31:07,080
Speaker 1: hear those.

1808
01:31:07,080 --> 01:31:11,240
Speaker 2: No, Yeah, that's the because it's the narcissist it's is

1809
01:31:11,280 --> 01:31:15,479
Speaker 2: it some you know, a bunch of those traits go

1810
01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:17,400
Speaker 2: across the board and like if you're this, you're this,

1811
01:31:17,479 --> 01:31:19,720
Speaker 2: you're this. But it's like narcissism for sure. But then

1812
01:31:19,800 --> 01:31:24,160
Speaker 2: also the psychopaths, where it's just like it's their world

1813
01:31:24,280 --> 01:31:26,720
Speaker 2: and everyone is just an ant in that world and

1814
01:31:26,760 --> 01:31:29,519
Speaker 2: they get to do what they want and everything is

1815
01:31:29,600 --> 01:31:32,200
Speaker 2: too power, everything is too you know what I mean,

1816
01:31:32,280 --> 01:31:34,200
Speaker 2: Like it's to feed their ego.

1817
01:31:34,160 --> 01:31:36,240
Speaker 1: And things are done to them and like they have

1818
01:31:36,360 --> 01:31:38,439
Speaker 1: unfair things are unfair to them.

1819
01:31:39,080 --> 01:31:41,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, and if they're like I don't even want to talk.

1820
01:31:41,880 --> 01:31:43,800
Speaker 2: Like when he was finally arrested, they tried to get

1821
01:31:43,840 --> 01:31:46,360
Speaker 2: him to talk about the nineteen seventy four murder, and

1822
01:31:46,439 --> 01:31:47,840
Speaker 2: he was like, I have no memory. I don't know

1823
01:31:47,880 --> 01:31:50,559
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, and just like it says if

1824
01:31:50,880 --> 01:31:53,839
Speaker 2: in his mind, since he doesn't acknowledge it, it didn't happen.

1825
01:31:54,439 --> 01:31:56,800
Speaker 1: Wow. I always wish there's a way to get them

1826
01:31:56,840 --> 01:32:01,160
Speaker 1: to like fucking feel bad about it, you know. Yeah,

1827
01:32:01,200 --> 01:32:04,439
Speaker 1: But that's the h there's no such things. They don't

1828
01:32:04,439 --> 01:32:06,960
Speaker 1: have a conscience that they need they can be reabilitated,

1829
01:32:07,000 --> 01:32:07,719
Speaker 1: which they can't.

1830
01:32:07,800 --> 01:32:11,599
Speaker 2: It's you thinking, they're like you, yes, it's that. And

1831
01:32:11,640 --> 01:32:14,160
Speaker 2: actually that's part of the fascination of all of this

1832
01:32:14,240 --> 01:32:17,440
Speaker 2: shit is there's these people that are built totally differently.

1833
01:32:17,439 --> 01:32:19,759
Speaker 1: Or because of their circumstances of how they were raised,

1834
01:32:19,800 --> 01:32:23,720
Speaker 1: which is like alcoholics, grandfather who did these things. It's like,

1835
01:32:23,760 --> 01:32:25,960
Speaker 1: there's no way your brain can then go to where

1836
01:32:26,000 --> 01:32:30,759
Speaker 1: you and I are and Steven and hopefully and.

1837
01:32:33,400 --> 01:32:35,719
Speaker 2: But also I think you have to have that because

1838
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:38,200
Speaker 2: lots of people get beaten up by horrible grandfathers and

1839
01:32:38,200 --> 01:32:40,559
Speaker 2: all that stuff you have. Then it's that extra piece

1840
01:32:40,640 --> 01:32:44,439
Speaker 2: sure being a sociopath or being a psychopath where it

1841
01:32:44,600 --> 01:32:48,040
Speaker 2: turns because this guy was just like on fire with

1842
01:32:48,160 --> 01:32:51,120
Speaker 2: the lord since fucking day one where he's like sixteen

1843
01:32:51,640 --> 01:32:54,479
Speaker 2: assaults out of you know, when he's like in his

1844
01:32:54,600 --> 01:32:59,639
Speaker 2: teens and early twenties, he had huge problems from jump

1845
01:32:59,720 --> 01:33:02,799
Speaker 2: and ever stopped doing it. Yeah, and then just tricked

1846
01:33:02,880 --> 01:33:06,200
Speaker 2: everybody in this insane way because you know, he was

1847
01:33:06,240 --> 01:33:08,200
Speaker 2: getting off on the idea of like, I'm gonna go

1848
01:33:08,200 --> 01:33:11,720
Speaker 2: interview the head of this investigation and ask them if

1849
01:33:11,720 --> 01:33:14,000
Speaker 2: they have any idea who's doing this and the answer

1850
01:33:14,040 --> 01:33:15,679
Speaker 2: is no, and he gets together.

1851
01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:18,000
Speaker 1: They were like, none of them were like, that's weird

1852
01:33:18,040 --> 01:33:20,040
Speaker 1: that he's putting himself, you know, because that's one of

1853
01:33:20,040 --> 01:33:23,040
Speaker 1: the things is that they put the murderers put themselves

1854
01:33:23,120 --> 01:33:25,880
Speaker 1: in the middle of the investigation or just a little

1855
01:33:25,880 --> 01:33:28,240
Speaker 1: too interested in it. Yeah, I guess they didn't know

1856
01:33:28,280 --> 01:33:28,799
Speaker 1: that then.

1857
01:33:28,720 --> 01:33:31,160
Speaker 2: They didn't know it. It's so funny too, because it's

1858
01:33:31,200 --> 01:33:34,120
Speaker 2: not that long ago. It's the nice but it's still

1859
01:33:34,600 --> 01:33:36,759
Speaker 2: police procedurally, it's long ago.

1860
01:33:36,880 --> 01:33:38,760
Speaker 1: Well, that just explains to me a thing that I

1861
01:33:38,880 --> 01:33:42,519
Speaker 1: haven't really ever understood, which is why Anne Rule never

1862
01:33:43,400 --> 01:33:47,600
Speaker 1: suspected or even took a while after Ted Bundy was

1863
01:33:47,720 --> 01:33:50,080
Speaker 1: arrested to be like, yeah, it was him, So she

1864
01:33:51,080 --> 01:33:52,719
Speaker 1: was under that same fucking spell.

1865
01:33:52,960 --> 01:33:55,040
Speaker 2: Yes, Okay, it's like they never understood.

1866
01:33:55,080 --> 01:33:56,720
Speaker 1: It was like, how did you fucking not know?

1867
01:33:57,200 --> 01:33:59,280
Speaker 2: Because you know, haven't you ever met a person like that?

1868
01:33:59,320 --> 01:34:02,599
Speaker 2: Like I've definitely I met one person in particular where

1869
01:34:03,400 --> 01:34:07,200
Speaker 2: the charisma is such they make you think that they

1870
01:34:07,280 --> 01:34:10,160
Speaker 2: think you're the only person in the world, and that

1871
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:14,800
Speaker 2: most people never get that unless you're like exceedingly beautiful

1872
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:16,160
Speaker 2: or special in some way.

1873
01:34:16,320 --> 01:34:20,200
Speaker 1: It's this actual specific relationship you're having that's because of

1874
01:34:20,240 --> 01:34:22,800
Speaker 1: the two of you, right, But there makes me feel

1875
01:34:22,800 --> 01:34:23,960
Speaker 1: that way, and I don't want to make.

1876
01:34:23,840 --> 01:34:28,240
Speaker 2: It well, but that's because that's that's it's you make

1877
01:34:28,320 --> 01:34:30,599
Speaker 2: him feel that way too, right, But when you meet

1878
01:34:30,640 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 2: those people like when it it In my opinion, I

1879
01:34:34,479 --> 01:34:36,160
Speaker 2: think a lot of love at first sight is like

1880
01:34:36,240 --> 01:34:38,960
Speaker 2: the first time you made a sociopath because they know

1881
01:34:39,360 --> 01:34:42,479
Speaker 2: how do they know how to manipulate you? And they

1882
01:34:42,520 --> 01:34:45,160
Speaker 2: have their reasons for it, even if it doesn't make

1883
01:34:45,160 --> 01:34:47,120
Speaker 2: sense to you or in your mind it's like why

1884
01:34:47,120 --> 01:34:49,439
Speaker 2: would you do that? Yeah, we had this magical thing, and.

1885
01:34:49,400 --> 01:34:51,160
Speaker 1: It's like trying to get what are you getting out

1886
01:34:51,200 --> 01:34:52,040
Speaker 1: of this? Nothing?

1887
01:34:52,280 --> 01:34:55,439
Speaker 2: Well, having young women be in love with you everywhere

1888
01:34:55,479 --> 01:34:57,200
Speaker 2: you go you know, as part of it.

1889
01:34:57,360 --> 01:34:59,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, because we don't need that, so we don't understand

1890
01:34:59,320 --> 01:35:00,720
Speaker 1: why other people would need that too.

1891
01:35:00,920 --> 01:35:03,960
Speaker 2: Write or if you need it, you can then go yeah,

1892
01:35:03,960 --> 01:35:05,519
Speaker 2: but that would be mean to do to a person

1893
01:35:05,560 --> 01:35:08,920
Speaker 2: who I didn't love back, like you can bring an actual,

1894
01:35:09,760 --> 01:35:12,760
Speaker 2: you know, conscience into it.

1895
01:35:12,920 --> 01:35:15,680
Speaker 1: I saw a relationship like that of two people I know,

1896
01:35:15,840 --> 01:35:19,000
Speaker 1: and it was like everyone was like, how the fuck

1897
01:35:19,080 --> 01:35:24,440
Speaker 1: do you not see this person doesn't think like you? Yeah,

1898
01:35:24,479 --> 01:35:27,080
Speaker 1: And it's like so surprising to see that from a

1899
01:35:27,120 --> 01:35:31,000
Speaker 1: smart person not understanding these like really obvious to everyone else.

1900
01:35:31,360 --> 01:35:34,320
Speaker 2: Don't you think smart people are almost more susceptible because

1901
01:35:34,320 --> 01:35:36,719
Speaker 2: it's like I never think I'm going to fall for anything.

1902
01:35:36,840 --> 01:35:41,639
Speaker 1: Yeah, And they're almost more like they can intellectualize away

1903
01:35:42,120 --> 01:35:47,120
Speaker 1: these things because they're not just ding dongs going along

1904
01:35:47,160 --> 01:35:49,080
Speaker 1: with it. They're like, well, I'm really smart, so I

1905
01:35:49,080 --> 01:35:51,000
Speaker 1: would clearly know this well.

1906
01:35:51,000 --> 01:35:54,599
Speaker 2: And also I think that brain based people ignore their

1907
01:35:54,640 --> 01:35:55,200
Speaker 2: gut more.

1908
01:35:55,320 --> 01:35:55,920
Speaker 1: Oh yeah.

1909
01:35:56,000 --> 01:35:58,439
Speaker 2: So it's like I've met plenty of people who aren't,

1910
01:35:58,479 --> 01:36:00,760
Speaker 2: say BookSmart, which I also didn't mean to just say

1911
01:36:00,800 --> 01:36:03,519
Speaker 2: I'm so smart because I'm true. I've proven here time

1912
01:36:03,520 --> 01:36:04,920
Speaker 2: and again that I'm not listen.

1913
01:36:04,960 --> 01:36:07,000
Speaker 1: If this is your first episode, you know that we

1914
01:36:07,000 --> 01:36:07,840
Speaker 1: don't even have to say that.

1915
01:36:08,040 --> 01:36:12,200
Speaker 2: Please know this. But there are people who don't get

1916
01:36:12,240 --> 01:36:15,320
Speaker 2: bogged down in thinking and just go, oh, give goodbye.

1917
01:36:15,360 --> 01:36:18,519
Speaker 2: This feels awful for whatever reason, Whereas if you're a

1918
01:36:18,520 --> 01:36:22,120
Speaker 2: big thinker and a big analyzer, then it's like, you know,

1919
01:36:22,320 --> 01:36:25,360
Speaker 2: this never happens, and this is I'm I'm magically being

1920
01:36:25,439 --> 01:36:30,120
Speaker 2: chosen by this amazing, magical person who is so charismatic

1921
01:36:30,240 --> 01:36:32,760
Speaker 2: and so you know what I mean, like does a

1922
01:36:32,800 --> 01:36:36,880
Speaker 2: thing that you're like, what, this doesn't happen? This is uncommon.

1923
01:36:37,000 --> 01:36:39,000
Speaker 1: Well, I want to say it's also because of self esteem,

1924
01:36:39,040 --> 01:36:40,559
Speaker 1: but or no, no, I was going to say, it's also

1925
01:36:40,600 --> 01:36:41,920
Speaker 1: because you and I have been through a lot of

1926
01:36:41,960 --> 01:36:44,000
Speaker 1: experiences where that has happened to us, and we have,

1927
01:36:44,640 --> 01:36:46,559
Speaker 1: you know, since we were very young and went through

1928
01:36:46,560 --> 01:36:49,760
Speaker 1: some shit. But it's also so we're like skeptical and

1929
01:36:49,840 --> 01:36:51,880
Speaker 1: thinking that way. But also when that happened to me

1930
01:36:52,240 --> 01:36:55,280
Speaker 1: when I was younger, I had really low self esteem. Yes,

1931
01:36:55,400 --> 01:36:57,479
Speaker 1: so you know, it's not just that I didn't know,

1932
01:36:57,640 --> 01:36:59,679
Speaker 1: it's that that they were like that or what people

1933
01:36:59,680 --> 01:37:02,680
Speaker 1: were like. It's that I when someone treats you that.

1934
01:37:02,680 --> 01:37:04,840
Speaker 1: It's almost like they find that people with low self esteem,

1935
01:37:04,920 --> 01:37:07,800
Speaker 1: and yeah, they can see you at a bar that

1936
01:37:07,880 --> 01:37:10,920
Speaker 1: you are that person. In the moment they say a

1937
01:37:10,920 --> 01:37:12,320
Speaker 1: word to you, they can tell if you are or not.

1938
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:15,360
Speaker 2: That's right, That's exactly right, because you know, it's funny

1939
01:37:15,760 --> 01:37:18,040
Speaker 2: the person I'm thinking of that I had this experience

1940
01:37:18,080 --> 01:37:21,360
Speaker 2: with where I was like the things I was thinking

1941
01:37:21,520 --> 01:37:23,800
Speaker 2: that it was, and the reality of what it was.

1942
01:37:24,040 --> 01:37:26,559
Speaker 2: I learned terribly about a year later when I watched

1943
01:37:26,600 --> 01:37:29,559
Speaker 2: him do the exact same thing to my friend who

1944
01:37:29,600 --> 01:37:32,360
Speaker 2: does not have low self esteem. When I introduced them,

1945
01:37:32,400 --> 01:37:34,840
Speaker 2: I was standing there and I watched the look. It

1946
01:37:34,920 --> 01:37:37,400
Speaker 2: was like watching a look come over. So it's like

1947
01:37:37,439 --> 01:37:41,799
Speaker 2: watching a predator like see you know, like.

1948
01:37:41,080 --> 01:37:44,400
Speaker 1: Like like a thing changed colors to fit the environment.

1949
01:37:44,880 --> 01:37:47,080
Speaker 2: And when I saw the look on his face and

1950
01:37:47,160 --> 01:37:49,599
Speaker 2: my heart just dropped of like, oh no, that's it

1951
01:37:49,680 --> 01:37:51,439
Speaker 2: wasn't love at first sight. That's the thing he does

1952
01:37:51,479 --> 01:37:54,439
Speaker 2: to everybody. My friend was just like, hey, what's like,

1953
01:37:54,640 --> 01:37:57,080
Speaker 2: nice to meet you and moved on, didn't give a shit,

1954
01:37:57,200 --> 01:38:00,479
Speaker 2: and I was just like, oh man, this is all

1955
01:38:00,600 --> 01:38:01,360
Speaker 2: so awful.

1956
01:38:01,479 --> 01:38:04,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, but I don't think it can happen to

1957
01:38:04,400 --> 01:38:06,719
Speaker 1: us again, or if it does, we'll be more aware

1958
01:38:06,760 --> 01:38:09,719
Speaker 1: of it. And you know, listen, they're our fucking friends.

1959
01:38:09,880 --> 01:38:13,519
Speaker 2: It'll never happen again because I'm an emotional lighthouse on

1960
01:38:13,560 --> 01:38:17,960
Speaker 2: the very tip of Maine, and I'll be there forever. Goodbye.

1961
01:38:20,280 --> 01:38:22,320
Speaker 1: Well, at least you're gonna have lighthouse cats.

1962
01:38:22,800 --> 01:38:23,439
Speaker 2: That's fun.

1963
01:38:23,760 --> 01:38:25,800
Speaker 1: It's really the only like positive I can think of that.

1964
01:38:26,080 --> 01:38:28,320
Speaker 2: At least you always get free clamm chowder at a lighthouse.

1965
01:38:28,360 --> 01:38:31,080
Speaker 1: Oh my god, with the oyster crackers on top of him.

1966
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:32,439
Speaker 2: The big sweater and I'll play the cello.

1967
01:38:32,479 --> 01:38:34,680
Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, this is gonna be great for me.

1968
01:38:34,960 --> 01:38:36,919
Speaker 1: Me me go live with Karen in her lighthouse.

1969
01:38:37,240 --> 01:38:42,040
Speaker 2: I should get Mimi. I'm her number one fan, all right. Anyway,

1970
01:38:42,160 --> 01:38:44,400
Speaker 2: that's that's the story.

1971
01:38:44,479 --> 01:38:47,479
Speaker 1: That's how it is, and we're sticking to on it.

1972
01:38:47,680 --> 01:38:54,040
Speaker 1: Tease and ie, okay, we're back, Karen.

1973
01:38:54,800 --> 01:38:58,200
Speaker 2: Any updates, No updates. This is an old case. It's

1974
01:38:58,240 --> 01:39:00,719
Speaker 2: been around for a long time. It was fee on

1975
01:39:00,840 --> 01:39:04,960
Speaker 2: The Peacock Show, The World's Most Notorious Killers, and they

1976
01:39:05,120 --> 01:39:10,080
Speaker 2: called Underwagger the first Transatlantic serial killer. Wow, but you

1977
01:39:10,120 --> 01:39:12,000
Speaker 2: know that feels to me like they're just trying to

1978
01:39:12,160 --> 01:39:15,160
Speaker 2: milk it. Yeah, you know headline yeah stuff.

1979
01:39:15,400 --> 01:39:17,400
Speaker 1: All right, well, speaking of headlines, let's get back to

1980
01:39:17,479 --> 01:39:23,840
Speaker 1: twenty seventeen and listen to our good things of the week. Hey,

1981
01:39:23,920 --> 01:39:26,000
Speaker 1: what happened this week that you're happy or like? Any

1982
01:39:26,080 --> 01:39:26,880
Speaker 1: you know? What do you like?

1983
01:39:27,760 --> 01:39:30,800
Speaker 2: Oh? You know what, I'll tell you I like and

1984
01:39:30,840 --> 01:39:35,640
Speaker 2: it is it is another present. But because we do

1985
01:39:35,720 --> 01:39:37,840
Speaker 2: get tons of presents, we do. Thank you for all

1986
01:39:37,840 --> 01:39:38,480
Speaker 2: your presents.

1987
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:41,400
Speaker 1: We love them, we do. We talk about them a lot.

1988
01:39:41,439 --> 01:39:43,320
Speaker 1: And did you see the thing that someone gave us.

1989
01:39:43,320 --> 01:39:46,559
Speaker 1: It's this thing. Ye. We really fucking lose our minds,

1990
01:39:46,680 --> 01:39:47,360
Speaker 1: we really do it.

1991
01:39:47,840 --> 01:39:50,360
Speaker 2: So we did get a present last week and it

1992
01:39:50,479 --> 01:39:53,280
Speaker 2: was from another person that I know from Twitter, Andrew,

1993
01:39:53,760 --> 01:39:55,599
Speaker 2: and he tried to send this thing twice.

1994
01:39:55,880 --> 01:39:57,479
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I don't pick up my po box. And

1995
01:39:57,720 --> 01:39:59,160
Speaker 1: I think they fucking hate me there.

1996
01:39:58,960 --> 01:40:00,759
Speaker 2: Too, because you get so much stuff.

1997
01:40:00,800 --> 01:40:02,320
Speaker 1: Now, yes, they fucking hate me.

1998
01:40:02,520 --> 01:40:07,040
Speaker 2: Lots of presents. Well he sent us he's a woodworker,

1999
01:40:07,680 --> 01:40:12,200
Speaker 2: and we got oh yeah, these gorgeous pens in hand

2000
01:40:12,320 --> 01:40:18,040
Speaker 2: carved pen holders, pen pass boxes, yeah, whatever they were.

2001
01:40:18,360 --> 01:40:21,800
Speaker 2: And then he carved Stephen a mustache for his I

2002
01:40:21,840 --> 01:40:23,280
Speaker 2: mean a comb for his mustache.

2003
01:40:23,439 --> 01:40:26,479
Speaker 1: Giant wooden comb for his mustache. Steven, have you been

2004
01:40:26,560 --> 01:40:29,160
Speaker 1: using it? I mean every day my mustache. I feel

2005
01:40:29,160 --> 01:40:31,960
Speaker 1: like it sounds look good. It's like it looks good.

2006
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:34,240
Speaker 1: I got to, you know, keep it, keep it tight.

2007
01:40:34,400 --> 01:40:35,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

2008
01:40:35,080 --> 01:40:37,280
Speaker 1: It's part of your persona now high and tight.

2009
01:40:37,760 --> 01:40:41,400
Speaker 2: So Andrew, it's Andrew Hess that I know from Twitter,

2010
01:40:41,439 --> 01:40:43,800
Speaker 2: and he's a great woodworker, And thank you so much

2011
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:45,639
Speaker 2: for sending those and we finally got them and we

2012
01:40:45,640 --> 01:40:47,920
Speaker 2: were blown away, blown away by that.

2013
01:40:48,080 --> 01:40:51,559
Speaker 1: It was so thoughtful. Yeah. I was always trying to

2014
01:40:51,560 --> 01:40:53,760
Speaker 1: think of things that make me happier, things that I loved,

2015
01:40:53,760 --> 01:40:58,120
Speaker 1: and so I just put up this hummingbird feeder right outside,

2016
01:40:58,200 --> 01:41:01,360
Speaker 1: and like, I love hummingbirds. And there's been like fucking

2017
01:41:01,640 --> 01:41:04,200
Speaker 1: it's been like a swarm of hummingbirds. And every time

2018
01:41:04,240 --> 01:41:06,599
Speaker 1: I see when I yell, even if I'm alone, have abord,

2019
01:41:07,000 --> 01:41:09,800
Speaker 1: Like I just can't not yell heavybird, even though they're

2020
01:41:09,840 --> 01:41:12,200
Speaker 1: like it's like every ten minutes. But the thing I

2021
01:41:12,280 --> 01:41:14,879
Speaker 1: love is that it made me realize that they're fucking

2022
01:41:14,960 --> 01:41:16,080
Speaker 1: assholes to each other.

2023
01:41:16,400 --> 01:41:17,120
Speaker 2: Hummingbirds aren't.

2024
01:41:17,160 --> 01:41:20,519
Speaker 1: Yeah, they're really aggressive and territorial and they keep fighting

2025
01:41:20,600 --> 01:41:22,599
Speaker 1: against it, and it made me so happy because it's

2026
01:41:22,640 --> 01:41:26,080
Speaker 1: like everyone's like humming birds are so beautiful and they

2027
01:41:26,080 --> 01:41:29,360
Speaker 1: get tattoos of them and they love them, and it's like, well,

2028
01:41:29,760 --> 01:41:32,040
Speaker 1: they can be fucking dicks too, and it's just just

2029
01:41:32,160 --> 01:41:35,960
Speaker 1: like a positive light to me of like, don't don't

2030
01:41:35,960 --> 01:41:40,519
Speaker 1: compare yourself, don't don't put yourself up to standards of hummingbirds, no,

2031
01:41:40,640 --> 01:41:44,080
Speaker 1: because they're actually assholes. Yeah and there, and they're sugar freaks.

2032
01:41:44,560 --> 01:41:47,720
Speaker 2: They're they're addicted to sugar and they just got to

2033
01:41:47,760 --> 01:41:49,760
Speaker 2: get theirs just like everybody else.

2034
01:41:50,040 --> 01:41:52,360
Speaker 1: They are mean to each other. It's very funny.

2035
01:41:52,439 --> 01:41:56,320
Speaker 2: It's funny because I face the sliding glass door where

2036
01:41:56,360 --> 01:41:59,920
Speaker 2: the hummingbird feeders are, and so the whole time is,

2037
01:42:00,040 --> 01:42:02,920
Speaker 2: especially today, I can see them and there's a lot.

2038
01:42:03,040 --> 01:42:06,280
Speaker 2: It's like three at a time every four minutes, so

2039
01:42:06,320 --> 01:42:09,280
Speaker 2: it's really hard to concentrate. Like every I keep wanting

2040
01:42:09,320 --> 01:42:10,920
Speaker 2: to go, but then it's.

2041
01:42:10,800 --> 01:42:14,559
Speaker 1: Like sad and it's so yeah, it's so distracting, but

2042
01:42:14,600 --> 01:42:16,720
Speaker 1: it's this peaceful thing of staring at a hommybird is

2043
01:42:16,760 --> 01:42:19,040
Speaker 1: so nice. But then they fucking dive bomb each other

2044
01:42:19,080 --> 01:42:22,360
Speaker 1: and chirp like yell at each other and then you

2045
01:42:22,439 --> 01:42:25,439
Speaker 1: hear their wings are this is like, it's just really fun.

2046
01:42:25,520 --> 01:42:28,360
Speaker 2: They're cool. Yeah, they're super cool. There's actually a video

2047
01:42:28,920 --> 01:42:31,040
Speaker 2: my friend sent me once. Uh, there's a guy who

2048
01:42:31,120 --> 01:42:33,280
Speaker 2: put a GoPro on his face and then put a

2049
01:42:33,320 --> 01:42:37,400
Speaker 2: hummingbird feeder like near under the go pro, so that

2050
01:42:37,479 --> 01:42:41,639
Speaker 2: it was basically hummingbirds flying up to his face drinking

2051
01:42:41,640 --> 01:42:44,120
Speaker 2: their stuff, but so he could get these first person

2052
01:42:44,200 --> 01:42:47,879
Speaker 2: view like slop of hummingbirds. Dude, the best video.

2053
01:42:47,680 --> 01:42:50,080
Speaker 1: People are the best hommybirds are fucking dicks, So don't

2054
01:42:50,080 --> 01:42:53,880
Speaker 1: worry about your life. Right, people are the best, yeap,

2055
01:42:54,640 --> 01:42:57,600
Speaker 1: especially when they have a go pro strapped list. What

2056
01:42:57,640 --> 01:42:58,840
Speaker 1: we're trying to teach you.

2057
01:43:00,880 --> 01:43:03,479
Speaker 2: Might be unclear now, but it's going to become clear

2058
01:43:03,640 --> 01:43:08,080
Speaker 2: very soon. Within the next ten years. It'll be so obvious.

2059
01:43:07,720 --> 01:43:09,519
Speaker 1: And you'll be like, oh my god, they were right,

2060
01:43:09,840 --> 01:43:11,760
Speaker 1: And now they live on a tiny island in Maine.

2061
01:43:11,880 --> 01:43:15,320
Speaker 2: We can't tell them Clamchowder Town. I'm the mayor of

2062
01:43:15,360 --> 01:43:16,400
Speaker 2: clam Chowder Town.

2063
01:43:17,800 --> 01:43:22,240
Speaker 1: Mimi is the mascot, and you guys are the listeners,

2064
01:43:22,240 --> 01:43:24,759
Speaker 1: and you're the ocean. Thank you guys for being our ocean.

2065
01:43:24,840 --> 01:43:27,280
Speaker 1: Our waves are everything. Yeah, our see, you guys go

2066
01:43:27,320 --> 01:43:29,520
Speaker 1: deeper than we ever believe possible.

2067
01:43:29,640 --> 01:43:32,479
Speaker 2: Thank you for being the monster underneath the rock deep

2068
01:43:32,520 --> 01:43:34,880
Speaker 2: down in the sea that's going to save us from

2069
01:43:35,600 --> 01:43:36,599
Speaker 2: the end of the world.

2070
01:43:36,439 --> 01:43:38,880
Speaker 1: That changes colors to match the environment. You guys are

2071
01:43:38,920 --> 01:43:40,200
Speaker 1: always evolving with us.

2072
01:43:40,320 --> 01:43:42,600
Speaker 2: That's right. You're the cuddlefish of this podcast, and we

2073
01:43:42,640 --> 01:43:43,599
Speaker 2: appreciate we want.

2074
01:43:43,439 --> 01:43:44,040
Speaker 1: To cuddle with you.

2075
01:43:48,479 --> 01:43:52,040
Speaker 2: Okay, we are back, I mean us saying that it

2076
01:43:52,120 --> 01:43:54,240
Speaker 2: might be unclear what we're teaching people, but it'll be

2077
01:43:54,280 --> 01:43:56,479
Speaker 2: clear in ten years. We've got about a year to

2078
01:43:56,520 --> 01:43:59,880
Speaker 2: figure figure it out. Shit, yeah, shit, I know.

2079
01:44:00,479 --> 01:44:02,320
Speaker 1: And I want to stand by the fact that honeybirds

2080
01:44:02,320 --> 01:44:05,800
Speaker 1: are assholes tucking. All these years later, I'm still trying

2081
01:44:05,800 --> 01:44:08,760
Speaker 1: to get them to come to my hummingbird feeder. I

2082
01:44:08,800 --> 01:44:11,599
Speaker 1: get the goods sugar and the good water. I use

2083
01:44:11,640 --> 01:44:13,280
Speaker 1: fucking what's it called water?

2084
01:44:13,439 --> 01:44:16,200
Speaker 2: Ogave whatever gave hippy water.

2085
01:44:16,400 --> 01:44:18,400
Speaker 1: I use good water and good sugar to try to

2086
01:44:18,400 --> 01:44:19,360
Speaker 1: get those little fuckers.

2087
01:44:19,479 --> 01:44:21,639
Speaker 2: And then my friend and they say no, thank you.

2088
01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:23,599
Speaker 1: They say yes, and then they fight each other over it.

2089
01:44:23,680 --> 01:44:25,240
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's just kind of cute, a lot of

2090
01:44:25,320 --> 01:44:26,160
Speaker 1: a lot of energy.

2091
01:44:26,240 --> 01:44:28,960
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, So this episode was originally titled The

2092
01:44:29,000 --> 01:44:30,240
Speaker 2: Devil's Number, but.

2093
01:44:30,680 --> 01:44:32,840
Speaker 1: It's not so if we were naming it today, maybe

2094
01:44:32,840 --> 01:44:33,559
Speaker 1: we would call.

2095
01:44:33,439 --> 01:44:36,280
Speaker 2: It its own face, which is when we were talking

2096
01:44:36,280 --> 01:44:41,240
Speaker 2: about we went off on a cookie tangent what a

2097
01:44:41,320 --> 01:44:42,800
Speaker 2: Florentine cookie looks like.

2098
01:44:43,120 --> 01:44:45,960
Speaker 1: And then we could also call it nothing I can't change.

2099
01:44:46,560 --> 01:44:49,280
Speaker 1: Don't show me nothing I can't change. Oh my god,

2100
01:44:49,360 --> 01:44:50,200
Speaker 1: jay Loo, I love you.

2101
01:44:51,200 --> 01:44:53,200
Speaker 2: Then there's also, of course, this is the episode where

2102
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:55,000
Speaker 2: I talked about being an emotional lighthouse.

2103
01:44:55,160 --> 01:44:55,760
Speaker 1: That's the one.

2104
01:44:55,920 --> 01:44:56,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

2105
01:44:56,200 --> 01:44:58,000
Speaker 1: I think everyone loved that so much.

2106
01:44:58,160 --> 01:45:02,400
Speaker 2: And I think people relatesolutely yeah to this day, to

2107
01:45:02,520 --> 01:45:03,320
Speaker 2: this very moment.

2108
01:45:03,400 --> 01:45:05,960
Speaker 1: So thanks you guys for listening to another episode of rewind.

2109
01:45:06,200 --> 01:45:08,320
Speaker 1: And we're gonna go back to twenty seventeen and let

2110
01:45:08,400 --> 01:45:12,080
Speaker 1: Elvis say goodbye. He's kind of unprofessional this time, but

2111
01:45:12,400 --> 01:45:14,400
Speaker 1: not a surprise. We're gonna let him do it anyways.

2112
01:45:14,479 --> 01:45:15,160
Speaker 1: He's a diva.

2113
01:45:15,400 --> 01:45:22,040
Speaker 2: We love him for it. Stay sexy and don't get murdered.

2114
01:45:22,280 --> 01:45:27,559
Speaker 1: Bye bye, bye, Elvis, get your ass out here. He's

2115
01:45:27,640 --> 01:45:33,640
Speaker 1: keeping Vin's company. And then Elvis, Elvis, Elvis, do you

2116
01:45:33,680 --> 01:45:38,960
Speaker 1: want to cook key? Wait? Elvis, you want to cook key?

2117
01:45:40,600 --> 01:45:44,000
Speaker 2: Yeah? Gobbles yes, bye bye,