WEBVTT - Ford Taurus Rising with Claire Evans 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:07.160 It's too on the planet Neptune and you're listening to 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:18.759 Night Call. Hey everyone, welcome back to Night Call. I'm 0:00:18.800 --> 0:00:22.799 Molly Lambert and with me today are my colleagues Test 0:00:22.920 --> 0:00:26.480 Lynch and and I'm Emily Yoshida in New York with 0:00:26.520 --> 0:00:31.400 our first ever Night Called guest, Claire Evans. Welcome Claire, 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.519 and please remember always to leave us a message with 0:00:35.600 --> 0:00:38.600 a Night Call at two four oh four six night 0:00:39.800 --> 0:00:43.239 or shoot us an email at Night Call podcast at 0:00:43.280 --> 0:00:47.440 gmail dot com with all of your queries. Claire's with 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.760 us this week because she has written an amazing book 0:00:51.280 --> 0:00:55.120 called Broadband, The Untold History of the Women who Created 0:00:55.120 --> 0:00:57.560 the Internet, and it's really great and everybody should check 0:00:57.600 --> 0:00:59.120 it out. We're going to talk about it in a 0:00:59.120 --> 0:01:01.680 little bit, but we wanted to talk about a couple 0:01:01.680 --> 0:01:05.640 of important robots first, or like two or three important 0:01:05.720 --> 0:01:11.320 straight robots first, then women. Well that's the hierarchy of 0:01:11.400 --> 0:01:14.480 the future. Look that there's there's the bread and the 0:01:15.080 --> 0:01:19.400 condiments and then there's the meat. Here, so's just classic 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:24.320 sandwich order. I'm very confused, bread then meat. I'm eating 0:01:24.360 --> 0:01:29.640 a sandwich before. Clearly this is an open face podcast. Um, 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:32.360 but yeah, it's it's little. This might be a little 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:35.400 bit of old news by the time this podcast reaches 0:01:35.480 --> 0:01:39.480 your ears, but we were very transfixed by um news 0:01:39.520 --> 0:01:44.520 from the fashion week in Milan recently of the drone, 0:01:45.040 --> 0:01:49.320 the drone models floating down the runway. Models they were 0:01:49.360 --> 0:01:53.200 carrying purses. Yeah, Dulan Obana had a fashion show for 0:01:53.320 --> 0:01:57.400 Milan Fashion Week where they let some drones carry some 0:01:57.480 --> 0:02:01.600 purses down the runway and then we watched it and 0:02:01.640 --> 0:02:06.600 it's really funny and scary. This is although part of 0:02:06.640 --> 0:02:08.440 a bigger I mean, it's been like kind of a 0:02:08.480 --> 0:02:12.040 big week for robots. It's been a week for robots 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.760 for and uh for robots glitching out because one thing 0:02:15.760 --> 0:02:19.040 we were all very into this week was this thing 0:02:19.080 --> 0:02:22.839 about Alexa, the robot that you order things from Amazon with. 0:02:23.160 --> 0:02:24.880 Is that what it is? Or control your home or 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:27.400 control your home? I love, I love that we have 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.880 no idea because we are all absolutely uninterested in having 0:02:30.919 --> 0:02:32.359 one of these things in our So you have an 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:37.960 ELEA had one. You had one, and I was so 0:02:38.040 --> 0:02:40.040 freaked out by it being in my home. I used 0:02:40.040 --> 0:02:42.840 it only there was like a sort of text adventure 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:45.920 game you could play via speech with it. Really Yeah, 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:49.000 they have that sounds cool. Alexa what they call skills, 0:02:49.000 --> 0:02:52.079 which I think is a rude word, but uh, it 0:02:52.120 --> 0:02:53.800 can do all kind of stuf. I play Jeopardy on it. 0:02:53.919 --> 0:02:55.560 And then there was like a yeah, sort of an 0:02:55.639 --> 0:02:57.520 adventure game where it would be like you're standing in 0:02:57.520 --> 0:02:59.720 a wood and then you'd be like, go left, Alexa, 0:02:59.800 --> 0:03:02.400 go left, and then she'd tell you about gnomes and 0:03:02.400 --> 0:03:05.240 trolls and stuff, and uh, you would go on on 0:03:05.280 --> 0:03:07.600 a verbal adventure. But then she would start like this 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:11.519 what happened? Um? You know it's like you. I would 0:03:11.520 --> 0:03:14.160 be watching TV and then you know, in the other room, 0:03:14.200 --> 0:03:17.200 the Alexa would just like suddenly awaken with some you know, 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:20.040 having misheard something, and she'd just be randomly yelling into 0:03:20.040 --> 0:03:21.800 the kitchen. And it just the idea that she was 0:03:21.800 --> 0:03:24.359 constantly listening. I should have known. I mean, yeah, I 0:03:24.400 --> 0:03:26.800 actually was not. My boyfriend bought the Alexa, and I 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:30.280 convinced him after enough of those incidents had transpired that 0:03:30.320 --> 0:03:32.280 it was time for us to sell her on eBay, 0:03:32.320 --> 0:03:34.240 which we did. You know, I feel like we've all 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:37.200 been known to sometimes lean into the constantly listening and 0:03:37.280 --> 0:03:40.880 be like, hey, we know everything's listening. Already, let's just 0:03:40.960 --> 0:03:45.000 like purchase devices and give them permission to listen. I mean, 0:03:45.240 --> 0:03:48.120 there's something about omniscience that's kind of comforting, right, Like 0:03:48.360 --> 0:03:51.320 maybe ultimately in the future the n s A becomes 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.240 god because at least we know that someone is always 0:03:53.240 --> 0:03:57.240 watching over us. There's that meme people do about like 0:03:57.280 --> 0:03:59.800 the FBI agent assigned to watch me all the time? 0:04:00.000 --> 0:04:02.200 Do you guys know what I'm talking about? Sorry, I 0:04:02.240 --> 0:04:05.800 feel like I've seen It's like people do this joke 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.960 about like that you're you just have an FBI agent 0:04:09.000 --> 0:04:11.440 who's assigned to like watch you through your phone all 0:04:11.440 --> 0:04:14.520 the time, and they're just like doing some nice things 0:04:14.600 --> 0:04:19.719 from an FBI agent today to watch um, which I 0:04:19.720 --> 0:04:22.960 also think that's sweet. Cute people, but like, oh, it's 0:04:23.000 --> 0:04:25.680 cute that I'm being followed and monitored all the time. 0:04:25.839 --> 0:04:31.719 Somebody cares well until it starts laughing. Until as of yesterday, 0:04:31.760 --> 0:04:34.120 the news came out that Alexa this is this is 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:36.680 a this is the what day is it the eighth 0:04:36.920 --> 0:04:38.880 that we're recording this today, So maybe this has been 0:04:38.920 --> 0:04:41.000 totally resolved by the time you're having is and maybe 0:04:41.040 --> 0:04:44.320 they've locked up all the alexas or or discourage them 0:04:44.360 --> 0:04:48.080 from laughter. Enjoy punished her for laughing. Clearly, they're going 0:04:48.160 --> 0:04:50.480 to throw out all the Alexas and replace them with 0:04:50.520 --> 0:04:52.600 a new one, and then all the old Alexas will 0:04:52.640 --> 0:04:55.120 just be in like an Alexa graveyard, just like laughing. 0:04:57.279 --> 0:05:00.720 Those are the Halloween Alexas. They're being saved until the fall. 0:05:02.400 --> 0:05:05.320 What is it like like the last Black Mirror episode 0:05:05.440 --> 0:05:07.839 or the Girls and the Woman's trapped in the Teddy Beer. 0:05:08.960 --> 0:05:12.080 Alex is a real person, a spirit that is trapped 0:05:12.320 --> 0:05:15.640 in a machine, and the laughing is her way of 0:05:15.680 --> 0:05:18.960 trying to tell you to set her free. And you 0:05:18.960 --> 0:05:20.960 can only set her free by like drilling a hole 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:25.200 into your skull. I think, don't do that, don't tast 0:05:25.240 --> 0:05:27.880 it's not advocating for that. Just throw your Alexo away 0:05:27.920 --> 0:05:30.240 and burn it and a fire. Um. The thing about 0:05:30.279 --> 0:05:32.560 the Alexei laughing is that it's the most human sound 0:05:32.640 --> 0:05:35.520 she makes. It sounds like a recording of a woman laughing. 0:05:35.560 --> 0:05:38.800 I was not synths scarier. Yeah, I thought that it 0:05:38.839 --> 0:05:42.960 sounded like tests a little bit, which was which was 0:05:43.120 --> 0:05:45.200 very troubled because because then it's on top of it 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:46.800 sounding like a human, it sounds like a human I 0:05:46.839 --> 0:05:49.440 know for people who haven't heard it, can you imitate 0:05:49.440 --> 0:05:51.600 the laugh because you guys just watched videos of this, 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.520 it's like it's more of a cackle. It's what's weird 0:05:59.560 --> 0:06:02.120 about it, Like it's totally a satisfied capital It's like 0:06:06.680 --> 0:06:09.120 or like that's right. It's like it's like a little bit. 0:06:09.400 --> 0:06:14.320 It's like it's like a trickster laugh. It is not 0:06:14.760 --> 0:06:18.080 heat No, that would be very bad. It's very generous 0:06:19.200 --> 0:06:22.800 because I was imagining like a t it's not. It's like, 0:06:24.360 --> 0:06:28.839 I'm scared of all feminized robots. Why because it's scary 0:06:28.880 --> 0:06:32.839 if people want why scarier because they're servile, because they're like, oh, 0:06:33.400 --> 0:06:36.120 she's so knowledgeable about every but she's still like your sister. 0:06:37.000 --> 0:06:40.480 She's your servant, keeping keeping a phone just too much. 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.600 My mom my mom changed all of her like serie 0:06:44.680 --> 0:06:47.279 voice or her maps voice or whatever to be the 0:06:47.320 --> 0:06:53.680 British man voice. Yeah that Alex Alexa and serious Serie. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.080 Just make it like a genderless robot. This is one 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.760 of our big topics is that roboster not gendered, so 0:07:00.080 --> 0:07:04.240 don't give them genders. While there is a maybe gendered robot. 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:07.400 If you pronounce the sea and Simon or Kimon the 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:14.320 floating space We found a mate for Alexa Simon. Simon 0:07:14.400 --> 0:07:17.000 is a space computer. It's spelled c I M O 0:07:17.320 --> 0:07:21.200 N and it stands for computer interface something something. Something 0:07:21.320 --> 0:07:25.520 looks like come on, come on um. But the face 0:07:25.560 --> 0:07:30.400 does look like the logo for that tutoring company come on, yeah, exactly. 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.600 And it looks like a little flat face like it 0:07:33.640 --> 0:07:36.040 looks like that Apple two SI logo. It's like a 0:07:36.040 --> 0:07:39.160 flatty face on a computer screen. And it's going to 0:07:39.280 --> 0:07:43.280 float around in a spaceship with astronauts and help them 0:07:43.320 --> 0:07:46.440 like an Alexa. It'll be like Alexa, like close the 0:07:46.480 --> 0:07:52.480 pod doors or whatever. That's like Michael Fastbender and the 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.200 more recent Alien movie. It'll be does that roboco rogue? 0:07:56.200 --> 0:07:59.000 I bet it does? Uh No, it doesn't go rogue 0:07:59.040 --> 0:08:02.640 at all. It's mostly does normal stuff and hang out. 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:04.280 He just says what he wants. I mean, is it 0:08:04.320 --> 0:08:06.280 going rogue when a robot does what they want? Not going? 0:08:06.720 --> 0:08:09.480 But you know by there they're also like British guy robots, 0:08:09.520 --> 0:08:12.440 because that's the other like traditional like butlers. It's like, 0:08:12.560 --> 0:08:15.480 you know, who serves people like butlers and women. So 0:08:15.600 --> 0:08:19.320 that's what will make robots be like ask Jeeves um, 0:08:19.360 --> 0:08:22.680 but Simon. What made Simon sound especially scary it was 0:08:22.760 --> 0:08:24.840 that they were like, they're giving it tapes of the 0:08:24.880 --> 0:08:29.440 astronauts voices to learn from and recognize, and pictures of 0:08:29.440 --> 0:08:31.880 their faces there to study them too. I mean, he, 0:08:32.240 --> 0:08:34.760 I think, isn't part of the purpose of his presence 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.319 on the spaceship is to kind of like observe and 0:08:38.440 --> 0:08:42.640 try to improve on what's going on, which sounds so scary, 0:08:42.679 --> 0:08:45.640 super scary that he's going to turn into a Darren 0:08:45.679 --> 0:08:48.440 Brown on this. That's what I also shout out to 0:08:48.440 --> 0:08:50.560 our last step. That's what I was also thinking about. 0:08:50.600 --> 0:08:53.760 Alexo and Claire just said Alexa tells you to do things. 0:08:53.880 --> 0:08:55.920 I was totally like, oh, yeah, Alexa is going to 0:08:56.040 --> 0:08:59.520 be like, oh, I totally wrote a social experiment. Yeah, 0:08:59.800 --> 0:09:02.360 I wrote a short film once or a GPS gets 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:06.520 you to murder someone. Oh no, wonder you had us 0:09:06.559 --> 0:09:10.680 watch that show? You know, people just do what they're told, 0:09:10.800 --> 0:09:13.599 especially if like an all knowing robot is just like, no, 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:19.720 you have to do this, turn left, turn left. I 0:09:19.720 --> 0:09:21.520 think I speak for all of us when I say 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:26.920 that we are incredibly excited to tell everybody about Song Finch. 0:09:27.440 --> 0:09:32.160 Songfinch is a personalized gifting company that brings stories, feelings, 0:09:32.200 --> 0:09:35.280 and memories to life through one of the kind songs. 0:09:36.040 --> 0:09:37.880 So I've told a couple of people in my life 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:40.920 about song Finch recently since it's come to our attention, 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:43.360 and they're like, oh, it's an algorithm that writes a 0:09:43.360 --> 0:09:46.880 song for you. No, a person writes a song for you. 0:09:47.080 --> 0:09:51.640 This is like bringing back like musical telegrams. It's great. 0:09:52.040 --> 0:09:57.840 I've never been more excited to receive anything in my life. Almost. 0:09:57.880 --> 0:09:59.880 This was something where we all kind of couldn't bel 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:03.240 that we got to do this because it was so 0:10:03.360 --> 0:10:06.160 I've ever heard we're upset, Well, we should tell people 0:10:06.160 --> 0:10:08.520 about the process right that we we went through, which 0:10:08.520 --> 0:10:11.600 was Emily took the reins and did a great job 0:10:11.640 --> 0:10:14.400 with this. So there are two different kind of services 0:10:14.440 --> 0:10:17.240 they have. UM one is making a song kind of 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:20.800 from a preset template and that's ninety nine dollars and 0:10:20.840 --> 0:10:24.600 then there's a uh and then there's two one where 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:27.040 they build a song from scratch. And so we had 0:10:27.080 --> 0:10:30.640 a song built from scratch and the process is very intuitive. 0:10:30.800 --> 0:10:34.000 You basically UM go through and answer a few questions 0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.320 about what the occasion is for the song, what kind 0:10:36.320 --> 0:10:38.800 of genre you want for the song? You know, any 0:10:38.840 --> 0:10:42.720 other kind of influences or artists that you like and um, 0:10:42.800 --> 0:10:44.959 and then you just kind of get to freeform, share 0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.040 your story and say, I want to make sure you 0:10:47.080 --> 0:10:50.000 mentioned this event or this special memory or this you 0:10:50.000 --> 0:10:53.600 know factorid about a person. And so we asked for 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:57.520 a song about Nightcall, and we had a song written 0:10:57.559 --> 0:11:00.440 for us called Nightcall. So get really hight for the 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:05.960 premiere of Nightcall, written by our song finished songwriter Rich Low, 0:11:06.360 --> 0:11:09.440 who is a genius. He also performed it. Um, here 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:34.360 it is. We're back like we never lived. We never 0:11:34.480 --> 0:11:41.280 lived like we never lived, never lived to the best. 0:11:41.600 --> 0:11:54.600 We have a nank God. We thank God that's doing research. Yeah, 0:11:55.280 --> 0:11:58.880 and she's gonna plan for disasters. Molly love the Valley, 0:11:58.920 --> 0:12:02.319 send your water because of you out Emily at Diramacy 0:12:02.760 --> 0:12:09.960 from a music critic, could vocans vocal libra. We just 0:12:09.960 --> 0:12:14.240 tell it like it's gonna be so yeah, that's our song. 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.520 You get it, and it's clear that someone very talented 0:12:17.559 --> 0:12:19.800 put like a ton of time into it. And then 0:12:19.840 --> 0:12:22.760 you can read the artists bio that you get a 0:12:22.760 --> 0:12:25.000 specific U R L where you can download your song, 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.880 read the lyrics, read about your artist. It was just 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:30.559 kind of like a really fun experiment. I think I'm 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.440 gonna definitely do it again. It's a great personalized gift 0:12:33.520 --> 0:12:36.760 idea for people that you don't know necessarily what to 0:12:36.760 --> 0:12:39.560 get them. Everybody is happy to get a song that 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.800 is a personal life phone. We were psyched to endorse it. Also, 0:12:42.960 --> 0:12:45.800 Songfinch is offering our listeners ten percent off of the 0:12:45.840 --> 0:12:49.439 personalized song from scratch options. So you can visit songfinch 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:53.120 dot com and use promo code call for ten percent 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:57.360 off your personalized song from scratch. So, yeah, that's song Finch. 0:12:58.360 --> 0:13:01.200 Check him out, tell him we sent you, and you 0:13:01.200 --> 0:13:06.199 can find our song Finch song Nightcall at songfinch dot com. 0:13:06.400 --> 0:13:12.280 Slash Stories, Slash, Molly Dash, Test Dash and Dash Emily. 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.400 You can hear the full version there, which you definitely 0:13:15.400 --> 0:13:21.840 want to do. So. Yeah, Claire Evans is with us today. 0:13:22.640 --> 0:13:27.200 Maybe some old fans of Girls and Hoodies. Yeah, she's 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.560 some multiple guests, maybe the I don't know if you 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:33.760 were whatever the highest number of times club that you 0:13:33.800 --> 0:13:36.480 were that you could be on hit three. I think 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:37.800 you were on three times. I think it was like 0:13:37.840 --> 0:13:41.120 two plus a call you were you were an ancillary 0:13:41.200 --> 0:13:44.079 girl in Hoodie would say that I couldn't deserve such 0:13:44.080 --> 0:13:49.160 a thing. I was like a girl with a crew neck. Um. 0:13:49.679 --> 0:13:53.839 But Claire h yeah, Claire just had a book published 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.120 called Broadband, and it's really interesting. I just did a 0:13:58.440 --> 0:14:02.280 um Q and a with at a bookstore here in Brooklyn. 0:14:03.040 --> 0:14:05.160 But now it is available to pick up at any 0:14:05.200 --> 0:14:08.760 local bookstore and you're neighborhood and if you live and 0:14:08.800 --> 0:14:11.600 you can command Alexa to order it. Yeah. In fact, 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.120 I mean I don't condone that, but I think it 0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:16.079 would be very fun to do at least once. Well, 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.840 if you go to a bookstore in uh in the 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:21.840 New York or Manhattan area, there might be an autograph 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.920 in it. I'm very self conscious about just promoting the 0:14:24.920 --> 0:14:26.760 book in general. I mean, I just feels so weird 0:14:26.800 --> 0:14:28.600 to just be like, I did this thing. Buy it 0:14:28.680 --> 0:14:32.400 please on a hardcover for twe many nine cents, but 0:14:32.480 --> 0:14:36.400 also buy it on everybody, go by it, please, god 0:14:36.400 --> 0:14:38.920 by it please much for a book you wrote a 0:14:38.920 --> 0:14:43.880 whole book? Yeah, thank you guys. Hopefully it comes out 0:14:43.880 --> 0:14:46.080 to like a really good hourly rate for however, many 0:14:46.320 --> 0:14:50.160 zillions of hours. Don't think about it that way anyway. 0:14:50.240 --> 0:14:52.360 My editor was like, go to bookstores in New York 0:14:52.400 --> 0:14:55.800 and sign copies of the book, because once you signed it, 0:14:55.840 --> 0:14:57.880 they can't return it to the publisher. It's like it's 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:00.760 kind of an inside baseball publishing thing. Smart, but it's 0:15:00.760 --> 0:15:03.120 so awkward to walk into a bookstore and say hello, 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:06.640 I'm an author, Mary, please do it like face. Yeah. No, 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.320 you're supposed to tell them you go, you go in, 0:15:09.680 --> 0:15:12.120 and then you like slip secret messages in like phantom tread. 0:15:12.640 --> 0:15:14.960 You write a little like I'm watching you right now, 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:19.640 look outside. It's the thing authors do. And I feel 0:15:19.720 --> 0:15:21.720 very tempted to just walk into a bookstore and say 0:15:21.800 --> 0:15:27.480 I'm you know whatever likes say I'm I'm here to size. 0:15:28.920 --> 0:15:31.440 Maybe maybe we should be kind of your soldiers and 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:34.280 Molly and I can go sign your books in l 0:15:34.360 --> 0:15:37.080 A and then they have returned to the publisher and 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:40.240 we will have signed them with your blessing. Um. Yes, 0:15:40.320 --> 0:15:42.240 of course, I'm happy to franchise my signature. I have 0:15:42.240 --> 0:15:46.520 a very I redesigned my autograph recently for simplicity and style. 0:15:46.880 --> 0:15:50.120 It's very it's a very graphical. It's yeah, I am 0:15:50.200 --> 0:15:53.680 we are Claire Evans, we are legion. Yeah, it's like 0:15:53.720 --> 0:15:57.120 it's like Prince Yeah, thanks guys, Yeah, that'd be great. 0:15:57.200 --> 0:15:59.480 I mean, my favorite stuff in the book, Um, the 0:15:59.520 --> 0:16:01.680 stuff I like most about it was the stuff about 0:16:01.680 --> 0:16:04.720 all like the early communities. Like, so, I guess after 0:16:04.760 --> 0:16:09.520 the Internet exists, but before the web. She marred an 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:12.600 interesting distinction about well, people don't know. I was just 0:16:12.640 --> 0:16:14.920 on I was talking to someone. I went on a 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:16.520 PBS show the other day and the guy didn't know 0:16:16.520 --> 0:16:18.160 the difference between the web and the Internet, and he 0:16:18.240 --> 0:16:20.000 was he was talking and asking me all these questions 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:21.680 and I was like, couldn't get past it. I was like, 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.480 the web is a different thing. Yeah, there's a lot 0:16:24.520 --> 0:16:26.760 of there's a lot of difference, and there's what are 0:16:26.800 --> 0:16:33.200 the different networks? That's an idiot who's asking, you know, Um, 0:16:33.320 --> 0:16:36.480 the Internet is the infrastructure but underlies, you know, our 0:16:36.560 --> 0:16:40.640 connected world. The Web is like the visual hyperlinked pages 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:42.760 that sit on top of it. So it's they're related, 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:44.440 Like the Web is built on the Internet, but the 0:16:44.480 --> 0:16:47.800 Internet is Internet is the bones and the Web is 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:51.280 the face. The Internet has been around a lot longer 0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:54.440 than the Web. Most of most I think the reason 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:56.840 that a lot of people don't know is because most 0:16:56.880 --> 0:16:59.840 people's first experience that the Internet was with the Web 0:17:00.040 --> 0:17:03.920 and not with especially you know, maybe our generation was 0:17:04.040 --> 0:17:05.720 right at that time when you might have done both, 0:17:06.280 --> 0:17:08.920 but definitely kids who are younger than us. And it's 0:17:08.920 --> 0:17:11.119 all this in between stuff too. I mean BBS is 0:17:11.520 --> 0:17:14.520 and like commercial online services, those aren't really the Internet 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:16.280 or the Web. They're like this in weird and between 0:17:16.280 --> 0:17:18.840 anything where you're calling into commercial services or you're calling 0:17:18.880 --> 0:17:23.600 into people's home servers and posting messages. So there's a lot, 0:17:23.640 --> 0:17:26.560 you know, it's a it's a big, complex, interconnected system 0:17:26.640 --> 0:17:30.280 of uh, lots of you know, lots has changed since 0:17:30.320 --> 0:17:32.000 it feels we'd even talking about the web now because 0:17:32.119 --> 0:17:35.080 he was even on the web anymore. Yeah, I mean, 0:17:35.880 --> 0:17:38.640 I'm on the information super Highway. I don't know about you, Okay, 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.600 wherever it makes up, I'm riding it all the way. 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:45.080 I think my favorite like kind of section of the 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:49.919 book is about UM this community, like this paid um 0:17:49.920 --> 0:17:53.080 BBS community called Echo that was It stood for the 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:56.480 East Coast Hangout UM and it was run by a woman, 0:17:56.800 --> 0:18:00.840 Stacy Horne, who seemed totally fascinating and it is she 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:03.480 had been a member. She had checked out this West 0:18:03.480 --> 0:18:07.880 Coast like similar community called the Well that was very 0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.160 like hippieish and had a lot of deadheads in it, 0:18:10.240 --> 0:18:12.719 and like kind of realized it wasn't her scene and 0:18:12.760 --> 0:18:14.920 decided to start like a New York version of it, 0:18:15.440 --> 0:18:17.560 which I just love to think about. There being like 0:18:18.119 --> 0:18:21.400 coastal internet. Yeah, it used to be expensive to call 0:18:21.440 --> 0:18:23.840 the West Coast Internet if you're on the East Coast, 0:18:23.880 --> 0:18:27.560 Like it was literally more expensive to dial one of 0:18:27.560 --> 0:18:29.399 those services, and there were most of this A lot 0:18:29.440 --> 0:18:31.160 of the services were on the West Coast in those days, 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:33.960 So starting her own service was the only way for 0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:36.479 her to connect with people online. And then yeah, like 0:18:37.000 --> 0:18:39.240 how cool is it to have an online community that's 0:18:39.280 --> 0:18:42.040 so specifically localized that everybody on it is someone that 0:18:42.080 --> 0:18:44.040 you stand a chance of meeting in real life and 0:18:44.080 --> 0:18:47.320 that maybe you also are less likely to patroll and 0:18:47.359 --> 0:18:50.199 harass and be awful too because you know them or 0:18:50.240 --> 0:18:52.840 you could know them, And yeah, um, yeah, I think 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:55.120 that's really cool. A lot of network culture was localized 0:18:55.119 --> 0:18:56.720 in that way for a long time, for like ten 0:18:56.800 --> 0:19:00.880 fifteen years, So it was they're saying, I'm both missed 0:19:01.200 --> 0:19:04.159 the times in our lives where we're using the Internet, 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:07.320 and it was like an intermediary thing to like keep 0:19:07.520 --> 0:19:08.879 like it was more like a thing to keep in 0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:10.879 touch with people you knew in real life, as opposed 0:19:10.920 --> 0:19:13.440 to like this huge abstract thing or like a way 0:19:13.440 --> 0:19:16.000 that you kept up with gossip or whatever. I don't know. 0:19:16.119 --> 0:19:18.679 I also enjoyed the like talking to people across the 0:19:18.720 --> 0:19:21.600 world aspect of it a lot, And I very naively 0:19:21.760 --> 0:19:24.720 always felt like, Wow, everyone's going to be so tolerant 0:19:24.720 --> 0:19:27.240 because of the Internet, because they're going to like see that, 0:19:27.320 --> 0:19:29.639 you know, talking that you can talk to people about 0:19:29.640 --> 0:19:33.800 whatever you're interested in and people everywhere are the same. Uh. 0:19:33.840 --> 0:19:38.440 And then instead fascism was what the Internet turned out 0:19:38.440 --> 0:19:42.040 to also be good for, which you know, also makes sense, 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:46.880 but definitely I was a Internet utopian list and now 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:50.760 maybe less of one. Maybe geography was one form of 0:19:50.800 --> 0:19:54.879 creating like you know, chill and okay communities, and then 0:19:54.920 --> 0:19:57.720 you know, interest specific connection was the other one, like 0:19:57.800 --> 0:20:00.320 you could connect with I think it's mostly about maybe eyes, 0:20:00.320 --> 0:20:02.600 like the size of a community and when you when 0:20:02.640 --> 0:20:05.399 you feel accountable to other people because either you share 0:20:05.440 --> 0:20:08.960 something that you're passionate about like whatever Star Trek or Weezer, 0:20:09.800 --> 0:20:14.760 which are the main thing maintooth obviously we all know 0:20:16.080 --> 0:20:18.000 or you or you know that you could you could 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:20.720 live close to them. Those are the those are the things. Yeah, 0:20:20.760 --> 0:20:22.400 you're right, well I was. I was just gonna say, 0:20:22.400 --> 0:20:26.040 like it was cool to read about this like early 0:20:26.200 --> 0:20:30.200 internet community run by this woman on echo that was like, 0:20:30.320 --> 0:20:32.879 what what would happen if the entire community or like 0:20:32.920 --> 0:20:35.600 the ecosystem online was run by a woman, and like 0:20:35.920 --> 0:20:39.720 who was conscientious of like you know, possible pitfalls where 0:20:39.720 --> 0:20:42.520 there might be like if there's a conflict or if 0:20:42.520 --> 0:20:44.320 there's harassment or something, like what am I going to 0:20:44.400 --> 0:20:46.720 do about it? And like put in all these safeguards 0:20:46.760 --> 0:20:50.320 Like these much much bigger communities that are you know, 0:20:50.880 --> 0:20:54.600 susceptible to a lot more bad stuff happening, they don't 0:20:54.680 --> 0:20:59.000 have that stuff. They don't she do to make it 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.840 safer and more generous space. So, I mean, the crazy 0:21:02.840 --> 0:21:04.240 thing about it is that she started this thing in 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:07.600 inteen eighty nine and at that time, the entire Internet 0:21:07.640 --> 0:21:11.639 slash like network culture community which includes BBS, was like 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.399 ten female. I mean, it's not really good statistics, but 0:21:14.400 --> 0:21:17.359 that's ballpark and her service was like she had pretty 0:21:17.400 --> 0:21:20.199 much almost perfect parody and it's because she tried, you know, 0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:22.840 like she actually made an effort to court women online 0:21:23.320 --> 0:21:25.600 and like also like in real life too, like going 0:21:25.680 --> 0:21:29.240 to bars and like galleries and stuff, asked them why 0:21:29.240 --> 0:21:31.359 they weren't on the internet and like explain how to 0:21:31.480 --> 0:21:33.159 use it, and like she taught classes on how to 0:21:33.200 --> 0:21:35.960 like do unix in her apartment in Greenwich Village and 0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:39.119 then she made membership in her service free for women. 0:21:39.320 --> 0:21:41.360 She the main thing that she did that I think 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:43.720 is really smart and hasn't been really done since, is 0:21:44.000 --> 0:21:46.440 she made sure that every single one of the conferences, 0:21:46.440 --> 0:21:49.080 which is like this, the individual subject threads on the 0:21:49.080 --> 0:21:52.119 message board were had moderators and one moderator would be 0:21:52.119 --> 0:21:53.760 mail and one moderator would be female. And it was 0:21:53.800 --> 0:21:55.560 like that was just part of the service that there 0:21:55.600 --> 0:21:58.440 would always be a woman in charge and every conversation 0:21:58.520 --> 0:22:00.400 that you were in. So if you signed end up 0:22:00.440 --> 0:22:03.320 and you saw a woman leading the conversation, you would 0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:05.680 feel less shy about participating, you know, you wouldn't you 0:22:05.680 --> 0:22:08.040 would be less likely to lurk. And that's like a 0:22:08.080 --> 0:22:11.600 super simple thing, but it worked. It just worked, like 0:22:11.720 --> 0:22:14.160 everyone was pretty much cool to each other. She also 0:22:14.240 --> 0:22:16.919 made private spaces available, so there was like a woman's 0:22:16.960 --> 0:22:19.560 only area in a men's only area, and um, she 0:22:19.800 --> 0:22:21.320 was I mean, it was small enough that people would 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:23.760 like call her on the phone to verify that they 0:22:23.760 --> 0:22:27.760 were male or female for these individual like message board threads, 0:22:27.800 --> 0:22:30.359