1 00:00:01,340 --> 00:00:04,320 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Missed in History Class, a production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,390 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson. 3 00:00:14,610 --> 00:00:17,250 Speaker 1: And I'm Holly Frey. This week on the show, we 4 00:00:17,290 --> 00:00:20,729 Speaker 1: took another look at Mary Mallon, which was a much 5 00:00:20,790 --> 00:00:23,490 Speaker 1: shorter episode very long ago in the past on the show. 6 00:00:24,230 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: In particular, I was trying to figure out what to 7 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,040 Speaker 1: talk about next. And I was having a hard time. 8 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,220 Speaker 1: I know you do this also, Holly. Sometimes I will 9 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:39,590 Speaker 1: look at and discard just a series of topics. Yeah. 10 00:00:39,930 --> 00:00:43,530 Speaker 1: Because they are too similar to something we just did, 11 00:00:43,690 --> 00:00:46,010 Speaker 1: or I don't have the resources right now, or I'm 12 00:00:46,090 --> 00:00:52,059 Speaker 1: just not feeling interested in that topic. And my... My 13 00:00:52,140 --> 00:00:55,900 Speaker 1: mind went on a little digression about what it must 14 00:00:55,940 --> 00:01:00,060 Speaker 1: have been like for the earlier hosts of the show 15 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,530 Speaker 1: who did not have thousands of episodes in the back 16 00:01:04,569 --> 00:01:09,630 Speaker 1: catalog already done. And then I went, wait a minute. 17 00:01:09,750 --> 00:01:13,690 Speaker 1: We talked about revisiting some of those very, very long 18 00:01:13,730 --> 00:01:17,450 Speaker 1: ago episodes. Let me go have a look. So I 19 00:01:17,560 --> 00:01:21,160 Speaker 1: immediately said, okay, typhoid Mary seems very relevant to right 20 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:24,140 Speaker 1: now for a number of reasons. Yeah. Right. I mean, 21 00:01:24,160 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 1: among them being the ongoing food safety situation we're having 22 00:01:30,980 --> 00:01:37,050 Speaker 1: in the United States with different produce having parasite problems. 23 00:01:37,709 --> 00:01:43,720 Speaker 1: And then also the weird collective revisiting of The early 24 00:01:43,780 --> 00:01:47,560 Speaker 1: years of COVID and people freaking out and acting like 25 00:01:47,640 --> 00:01:50,940 Speaker 1: we were all ordered into our homes at gunpoint, which 26 00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,490 Speaker 1: is not what happened. Correct. Oh, I'm irate about some 27 00:01:55,530 --> 00:01:59,370 Speaker 1: of that. Yeah, me too. Me too. I will say 28 00:01:59,390 --> 00:02:05,810 Speaker 1: that I didn't fully understand some of the discussion around 29 00:02:05,850 --> 00:02:09,290 Speaker 1: Mary Mallon and how she did return to cooking. how 30 00:02:09,430 --> 00:02:12,850 Speaker 1: it seems like she may not have fully understood or 31 00:02:12,930 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 1: believed what it meant to be a typhoid carrier. But 32 00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:21,820 Speaker 1: then I lived through the early years of the COVID 33 00:02:21,860 --> 00:02:27,380 Speaker 1: pandemic and also now. Where people will just steadfastly believe 34 00:02:27,440 --> 00:02:33,970 Speaker 1: things that are demonstrably false. And I was like, okay. 35 00:02:34,669 --> 00:02:36,310 Speaker 1: I get it. I don't like it, but I get 36 00:02:36,350 --> 00:02:41,440 Speaker 1: it now. Yeah. I had a weird realization while working 37 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,799 Speaker 1: on this. I went down a very long rabbit hole 38 00:02:44,900 --> 00:02:48,279 Speaker 1: looking for something that had been printed in the New 39 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:52,190 Speaker 1: York Medical Journal. And what I was looking at was 40 00:02:52,270 --> 00:02:54,770 Speaker 1: the New York State Journal of Medicine. And I had 41 00:02:54,830 --> 00:02:57,690 Speaker 1: just thought that the New York Medical Journal was what 42 00:02:57,750 --> 00:03:02,170 Speaker 1: people were colloquially calling that one. Nope. They are two 43 00:03:02,210 --> 00:03:05,690 Speaker 1: different things. So I had been trying to find this 44 00:03:05,750 --> 00:03:10,490 Speaker 1: particular article online. I was looking at scans of medical journals, 45 00:03:10,570 --> 00:03:12,950 Speaker 1: and I was like, I don't understand. This is saying 46 00:03:12,970 --> 00:03:15,890 Speaker 1: that it's on page 610, but all of these scans 47 00:03:16,090 --> 00:03:20,690 Speaker 1: are ending on page 520-something. Why? And at first, I 48 00:03:20,730 --> 00:03:24,309 Speaker 1: thought maybe everyone was working from the same scan, like 49 00:03:24,350 --> 00:03:27,510 Speaker 1: the same scan of a big volume of journals that 50 00:03:27,550 --> 00:03:30,350 Speaker 1: had been uploaded, and it just was missing the final 51 00:03:30,450 --> 00:03:34,109 Speaker 1: issue or something. And then I went, wait, it's me. 52 00:03:35,140 --> 00:03:41,640 Speaker 1: I am looking in the literal wrong place. I've been there. 53 00:03:41,740 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 1: I've been there. No judgment at all. Yeah. Random side note, 54 00:03:45,900 --> 00:03:48,970 Speaker 1: I was vaccinated for typhoid before we went to Morocco. 55 00:03:49,770 --> 00:03:54,210 Speaker 1: Because Morocco, compared to other places, not a big risk 56 00:03:54,550 --> 00:03:57,670 Speaker 1: for typhoid at this point. But it is still a 57 00:03:57,710 --> 00:04:03,360 Speaker 1: recommended vaccine for travelers going to essentially anywhere in Africa, 58 00:04:03,460 --> 00:04:06,390 Speaker 1: I think. The whole continent. So that was just a 59 00:04:06,450 --> 00:04:09,630 Speaker 1: random curious aside. I have a couple years of protection 60 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:18,060 Speaker 1: of typhoid. The outbreak at the maternity hospital, which is 61 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,700 Speaker 1: obviously unfortunate. It's unfortunate that that happened. It is unfortunate 62 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:25,680 Speaker 1: that Mary Mallon seems to have been in a situation 63 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 1: where she was like, I have to earn a living. 64 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,960 Speaker 1: I don't know what you want me to do. That 65 00:04:31,060 --> 00:04:37,979 Speaker 1: led to questions about vaccine efficacy. because the typhoid vaccine 66 00:04:38,240 --> 00:04:41,890 Speaker 1: had been created by that point, a significant number of 67 00:04:41,950 --> 00:04:45,989 Speaker 1: people on staff at the hospital were vaccinated. So I 68 00:04:46,050 --> 00:04:49,810 Speaker 1: read a whole paper that looked at the prevalence just 69 00:04:49,910 --> 00:04:52,950 Speaker 1: among the staff because that was easier to isolate than 70 00:04:52,990 --> 00:04:56,310 Speaker 1: like whether the patients had eaten any of the same food. 71 00:04:57,330 --> 00:05:00,560 Speaker 1: It was clearer which staff had eaten what. There were 72 00:05:00,880 --> 00:05:04,960 Speaker 1: seven cases of typhoid among 44 people who had been 73 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:07,099 Speaker 1: vaccinated or 15.9%. And then six cases among 30 people 74 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:17,130 Speaker 1: who were unvaccinated, which is about 20%. So the rate 75 00:05:17,190 --> 00:05:20,370 Speaker 1: was lower in vaccinated people, but not by that much. 76 00:05:21,370 --> 00:05:24,810 Speaker 1: Some complicating factors were that some people had only been 77 00:05:24,890 --> 00:05:29,270 Speaker 1: partially vaccinated. Some people had been vaccinated right when that 78 00:05:29,390 --> 00:05:32,430 Speaker 1: vaccine first came out. So some years had passed and 79 00:05:32,490 --> 00:05:37,930 Speaker 1: probably their protection had waned. It does seem like the 80 00:05:38,050 --> 00:05:41,170 Speaker 1: fatality rate was a whole lot lower than it would 81 00:05:41,230 --> 00:05:45,910 Speaker 1: have been if everyone was unvaccinated. And then the paper 82 00:05:45,950 --> 00:05:49,590 Speaker 1: that looked at this also looked at several other typhoid 83 00:05:49,710 --> 00:05:54,680 Speaker 1: outbreaks in which there were vaccinated people who were exposed. 84 00:05:55,380 --> 00:05:58,159 Speaker 1: And those other outbreaks, the results had been way more 85 00:05:58,260 --> 00:06:02,100 Speaker 1: consistently the vaccine prevented. There would be zero or one 86 00:06:02,220 --> 00:06:06,070 Speaker 1: vaccinated person. So I originally had this whole thing, that 87 00:06:06,330 --> 00:06:11,050 Speaker 1: whole explanation in the part that was discussing the outbreak 88 00:06:11,089 --> 00:06:14,600 Speaker 1: at the hospital, and I realized that the episode was 89 00:06:14,640 --> 00:06:17,240 Speaker 1: getting a little long, and it wasn't directly relevant to 90 00:06:17,279 --> 00:06:20,780 Speaker 1: what we were talking about. But I did find it interesting. Yeah. 91 00:06:21,779 --> 00:06:26,310 Speaker 1: I do think that the speed with which kind of 92 00:06:26,430 --> 00:06:32,260 Speaker 1: public opinion turned on her... Uh-huh. was not just... that 93 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:34,270 Speaker 1: she went back to work as a cook, it was 94 00:06:34,310 --> 00:06:37,870 Speaker 1: that it all went down at a maternity hospital. Yeah. Specifically. 95 00:06:38,070 --> 00:06:41,990 Speaker 1: And it was also the news coverage of that became 96 00:06:42,050 --> 00:06:47,130 Speaker 1: incredibly critical. Yeah. Yeah. And had been much more sympathetic 97 00:06:47,170 --> 00:06:51,090 Speaker 1: to her previously before that. The fact that it was 98 00:06:51,150 --> 00:06:57,310 Speaker 1: a maternity hospital in particular, obviously not good. Yeah. Yeah. 99 00:06:58,490 --> 00:07:00,830 Speaker 1: One of the people who died in that outbreak was 100 00:07:00,890 --> 00:07:04,710 Speaker 1: a staff member who had only been partially vaccinated, and 101 00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:06,799 Speaker 1: the other was a much older person, so they would 102 00:07:06,830 --> 00:07:10,620 Speaker 1: have been at a higher risk. But still, going to 103 00:07:10,660 --> 00:07:14,260 Speaker 1: work at a hospital was just a particular... That added 104 00:07:14,280 --> 00:07:17,900 Speaker 1: a layer to it, for sure. And I don't know 105 00:07:18,050 --> 00:07:21,590 Speaker 1: why they were calling her Typhoid Mary at the hospital. Like... 106 00:07:22,300 --> 00:07:25,100 Speaker 1: had people connected this outbreak to her? Did they just 107 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:29,260 Speaker 1: not like her? Did they think that she was not 108 00:07:29,420 --> 00:07:31,620 Speaker 1: clean enough? Like, I don't know what... Did it start 109 00:07:31,660 --> 00:07:35,180 Speaker 1: as a weird joke because that was a moniker that 110 00:07:35,220 --> 00:07:40,050 Speaker 1: was floating around at the time? Yeah. That's kooky. Yeah, 111 00:07:40,230 --> 00:07:43,890 Speaker 1: I don't know the answer. You wanted to talk about gallbladders. 112 00:07:44,370 --> 00:07:47,330 Speaker 1: I do. Before that, I'm going to talk about something 113 00:07:47,430 --> 00:07:50,050 Speaker 1: else just that is funny, which is that you had 114 00:07:50,110 --> 00:07:53,180 Speaker 1: told me you were working on this episode. And then 115 00:07:53,220 --> 00:07:56,100 Speaker 1: like a few days ago, out of nowhere, my beloved 116 00:07:56,140 --> 00:07:59,580 Speaker 1: was watching some video that had come across social media 117 00:07:59,610 --> 00:08:05,330 Speaker 1: that was talking about specifically the peach ice cream dessert. Oh, yeah. 118 00:08:05,390 --> 00:08:08,090 Speaker 1: And he was like, is this real? Is this real information? 119 00:08:08,150 --> 00:08:12,570 Speaker 1: And I was like, yeah, dude. Yep. Yep. It was 120 00:08:12,610 --> 00:08:14,770 Speaker 1: just very funny. I was like, I get you, universe. 121 00:08:14,820 --> 00:08:19,100 Speaker 1: I know we're talking about it. It's coming. It's fine. Gallbladders. Yes. 122 00:08:20,180 --> 00:08:27,030 Speaker 1: Here is the part where I'm like, No. Obviously, like, 123 00:08:27,510 --> 00:08:32,110 Speaker 1: we know taking out her gallbladder would not have helped her. But, like, 124 00:08:32,470 --> 00:08:36,319 Speaker 1: in that rumor that went around, because that's all I'm 125 00:08:36,340 --> 00:08:39,300 Speaker 1: willing to call it, that she had had this autopsy 126 00:08:39,340 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: and that her gallbladder was full of gallstones that were just, 127 00:08:43,660 --> 00:08:49,340 Speaker 1: you know, riddled with typhoid. No, because let me tell 128 00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:53,730 Speaker 1: you what happens when you have gallstones. Right. Standing up 129 00:08:53,809 --> 00:08:57,990 Speaker 1: is hard. Like, everything hurts so bad. I have never 130 00:08:58,460 --> 00:09:01,100 Speaker 1: had a child, but I have had friends that have 131 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,660 Speaker 1: given birth and had gallstones tell me they thought gallstones 132 00:09:04,700 --> 00:09:07,619 Speaker 1: were worse. Right. I don't know if that's accurate, and 133 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:09,860 Speaker 1: I'm sure it differs from person to person, but it 134 00:09:09,900 --> 00:09:14,189 Speaker 1: was one of the most horrific pains I have ever experienced. Yeah. 135 00:09:15,390 --> 00:09:19,470 Speaker 1: Doubled over, can't, like, gasping for breath. So the idea 136 00:09:19,510 --> 00:09:22,270 Speaker 1: that she was just tootling around about her life... doing 137 00:09:22,330 --> 00:09:25,230 Speaker 1: her regular jobs and whatnot and nobody was like wow 138 00:09:25,670 --> 00:09:28,130 Speaker 1: Mary really is like struggling she seems to be in 139 00:09:28,170 --> 00:09:30,670 Speaker 1: a lot of pain like the reason we even found 140 00:09:30,750 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 1: out that I had them was because I was having 141 00:09:34,179 --> 00:09:37,460 Speaker 1: weird I mean I was having like chest pains and 142 00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:40,070 Speaker 1: I had done a telemedicine thing because it was the 143 00:09:40,110 --> 00:09:42,470 Speaker 1: middle of the night and the doctor was like hey 144 00:09:42,490 --> 00:09:43,809 Speaker 1: I don't want to scare you but you're of a 145 00:09:43,830 --> 00:09:46,270 Speaker 1: certain age you carry some extra weight we want to 146 00:09:46,309 --> 00:09:48,130 Speaker 1: make sure you're not having a heart attack please go 147 00:09:48,150 --> 00:09:50,949 Speaker 1: to the ER right now yeah and when I went 148 00:09:51,130 --> 00:09:52,729 Speaker 1: you know those are all the words you need to 149 00:09:52,790 --> 00:09:54,910 Speaker 1: say I didn't even have my paperwork filled out and 150 00:09:54,929 --> 00:09:56,390 Speaker 1: the EKG was on me I think I've said that 151 00:09:56,410 --> 00:09:59,220 Speaker 1: before but it was because one of the ER nurses 152 00:09:59,260 --> 00:10:01,709 Speaker 1: was like, cool, your heart's fine, but you are white 153 00:10:01,730 --> 00:10:03,569 Speaker 1: knuckling that bed so hard, I think you're going to 154 00:10:03,610 --> 00:10:06,510 Speaker 1: break the frame. Clearly something's wrong. I mean, that's like 155 00:10:06,570 --> 00:10:09,600 Speaker 1: the level of pain. So the fact that she... per 156 00:10:09,620 --> 00:10:12,580 Speaker 1: this rumor, was just tootling around with a gallbladder full 157 00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:16,140 Speaker 1: of gallstones. Because you pass them. That's what happens. They 158 00:10:16,179 --> 00:10:18,980 Speaker 1: don't just build up in there forever. They move through 159 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:21,660 Speaker 1: the valve from your gallbladder into your stomach, and that's 160 00:10:22,300 --> 00:10:25,500 Speaker 1: where it hurts so bad. So that's just like, anybody 161 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:30,030 Speaker 1: that has ever had a gallstone knows that that's baloney. Yeah, yeah. 162 00:10:30,250 --> 00:10:34,650 Speaker 1: I do think, my limited, not in any way a 163 00:10:35,090 --> 00:10:40,740 Speaker 1: doctor understanding is, The gallbladder is one of the places 164 00:10:41,059 --> 00:10:45,880 Speaker 1: that the bacteria can continue to linger. But not the 165 00:10:46,020 --> 00:10:50,850 Speaker 1: only place. And removing the gallbladder, like, does not deal 166 00:10:50,890 --> 00:10:54,309 Speaker 1: with that issue. Like, it was a thing that they 167 00:10:54,350 --> 00:10:56,750 Speaker 1: tried in the 20s that was clearly not working. And 168 00:10:56,790 --> 00:11:00,010 Speaker 1: then today, people, for the most part, can get a 169 00:11:00,050 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: longer course of antibiotics to, like, clear out the bacteria 170 00:11:04,940 --> 00:11:09,830 Speaker 1: that in most people... a regular course of antibiotics deals with. 171 00:11:10,490 --> 00:11:16,090 Speaker 1: But yeah, the autopsy gallstone, or yeah, that just sounds 172 00:11:16,130 --> 00:11:19,390 Speaker 1: made up to me. No, she didn't. Unless she was 173 00:11:19,570 --> 00:11:32,370 Speaker 1: really good at hiding pain, which I... Yeah. Also, can 174 00:11:32,390 --> 00:11:34,910 Speaker 1: we just talk about, here's what struck me, and this 175 00:11:34,970 --> 00:11:40,300 Speaker 1: may just be my own hang-ups about such things. I 176 00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:42,910 Speaker 1: don't care what setting it is that you're in. I 177 00:11:43,070 --> 00:11:45,630 Speaker 1: don't care how clinical it is. I don't care how 178 00:11:46,309 --> 00:11:51,070 Speaker 1: careful and kind the staff are. If you are not 179 00:11:51,130 --> 00:11:57,060 Speaker 1: just incarcerated, but incarcerated and basically your job is essentially 180 00:11:57,100 --> 00:12:00,459 Speaker 1: to give stool samples and urine samples all the time. 181 00:12:01,250 --> 00:12:05,699 Speaker 1: That is inherently so demeaning. Yeah, yeah. In ways that, like, 182 00:12:06,020 --> 00:12:08,740 Speaker 1: I just... I could see her fighting with them about 183 00:12:08,780 --> 00:12:10,580 Speaker 1: it out of the gate, being like, you want me 184 00:12:10,620 --> 00:12:15,190 Speaker 1: to give you what? Yeah. Again, at a time when, like, 185 00:12:15,970 --> 00:12:19,530 Speaker 1: we had different... I mean, some people still do. You know, 186 00:12:19,550 --> 00:12:24,850 Speaker 1: there's just a different thinking about personal... you know, bodily 187 00:12:24,929 --> 00:12:29,910 Speaker 1: functions and like how completely rude it would seem for 188 00:12:29,950 --> 00:12:33,359 Speaker 1: someone to basically like come to the place you live 189 00:12:33,420 --> 00:12:39,460 Speaker 1: and say, hey, I need a stool sample. Yeah. What? No. Yeah. 190 00:12:40,040 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 1: I understand her fury. A hundred percent. Right. I'm surprised 191 00:12:44,960 --> 00:12:49,610 Speaker 1: she didn't bite anybody. I probably would have. She might have. Yeah. 192 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:54,420 Speaker 1: So there are a couple of books about this. neither 193 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:57,000 Speaker 1: of which I have fully read. I did sort of 194 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:04,309 Speaker 1: skim through Judith Walser-Levitt's Typhoid Mary, Captive to Public Health, 195 00:13:05,250 --> 00:13:07,910 Speaker 1: which is a really interesting book in how it looks 196 00:13:07,950 --> 00:13:10,270 Speaker 1: at this, because it's not like, it's not a biography 197 00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:13,910 Speaker 1: of her. It's not a chronology of the case. It's 198 00:13:13,990 --> 00:13:19,839 Speaker 1: more like each chapter looks at Typhoid Mary's story, like 199 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:24,430 Speaker 1: that mythology, and her as a person, through different lenses. 200 00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:28,590 Speaker 1: So like we're looking at Mary Mallon through the lens 201 00:13:28,970 --> 00:13:32,540 Speaker 1: of public health, through the lens of gender and her 202 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:35,199 Speaker 1: class and all of that kind of stuff. So like 203 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:38,840 Speaker 1: that was really a very interesting way to explore that 204 00:13:39,540 --> 00:13:42,170 Speaker 1: to me, which is something that I just sort of 205 00:13:42,290 --> 00:13:45,939 Speaker 1: flipped through briefly. The other is a book that I 206 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,140 Speaker 1: have not read at all in any way, but it's 207 00:13:48,179 --> 00:13:52,460 Speaker 1: by Anthony Bourdain. Oh, yeah. Which I, it just did 208 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:54,980 Speaker 1: not really occur to me that that was a topic 209 00:13:55,059 --> 00:13:58,280 Speaker 1: that Anthony Bourdain would have taken on. And as I 210 00:13:58,370 --> 00:14:04,210 Speaker 1: understand it, his approach was sort of just looking at 211 00:14:04,270 --> 00:14:07,989 Speaker 1: her as a cook. And that was mostly the thing 212 00:14:08,030 --> 00:14:11,150 Speaker 1: that I think attracted him to the story. And I 213 00:14:11,200 --> 00:14:14,460 Speaker 1: read a couple of reviews of it, and it was 214 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:19,220 Speaker 1: sort of characterized as being one of the most humanizing accounts. 215 00:14:20,120 --> 00:14:23,460 Speaker 1: Even to the point of being sympathetic to her in 216 00:14:23,580 --> 00:14:27,940 Speaker 1: contexts where people don't have a lot of sympathy. Which 217 00:14:27,980 --> 00:14:31,590 Speaker 1: doesn't surprise me at all, given what I know of 218 00:14:31,670 --> 00:14:34,590 Speaker 1: Anthony Bourdain. So those are a couple of books that exist, 219 00:14:35,570 --> 00:14:38,430 Speaker 1: if people want more. I feel like I was so 220 00:14:38,490 --> 00:14:42,330 Speaker 1: slow to come around on Anthony Bourdain. Oh, yeah. Yes. 221 00:14:42,990 --> 00:14:44,810 Speaker 1: I'm almost scared to say what I'm about to say. 222 00:14:45,530 --> 00:14:51,130 Speaker 1: Don't come for me. Okay. I have always been on 223 00:14:51,150 --> 00:14:55,790 Speaker 1: the struggle bus when it comes to chef culture. Oh, sure. 224 00:14:55,820 --> 00:15:00,620 Speaker 1: And he kind of was in his earlier career a 225 00:15:00,780 --> 00:15:04,600 Speaker 1: problematic part of that. Uh-huh. Right? That there's this idea, like, 226 00:15:04,820 --> 00:15:07,400 Speaker 1: when I read Kitchen Confidential, I just remember thinking, like, 227 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:11,550 Speaker 1: this is bananas. And also, like, I did not like 228 00:15:11,650 --> 00:15:17,410 Speaker 1: that sort of hyper aggressive. There's a phrase I call 229 00:15:17,450 --> 00:15:20,090 Speaker 1: it that I can't say on this show. Just like 230 00:15:20,470 --> 00:15:27,050 Speaker 1: super very machismo kind of like not just being a leader, 231 00:15:27,130 --> 00:15:30,880 Speaker 1: but being a jerk leader. Yeah. That was part of 232 00:15:30,920 --> 00:15:33,240 Speaker 1: the package of being a chef in a high end restaurant. 233 00:15:33,980 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 1: And I actually understand how we got there, right? Because 234 00:15:37,080 --> 00:15:38,910 Speaker 1: it is high pressure, especially if you're at like a 235 00:15:38,950 --> 00:15:41,970 Speaker 1: fine dining establishment. And I just like when I see that, 236 00:15:42,010 --> 00:15:44,900 Speaker 1: when I've seen that on television shows, I hate it. 237 00:15:45,050 --> 00:15:47,220 Speaker 1: It makes food taste like poison to me. I don't 238 00:15:47,250 --> 00:15:49,859 Speaker 1: care how delicious it is. I don't like any of 239 00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:53,840 Speaker 1: that stuff. And so, you know, when he sort of 240 00:15:54,060 --> 00:15:57,470 Speaker 1: as he got older and and. We were seeing different 241 00:15:57,570 --> 00:16:00,210 Speaker 1: sides of him, and he was doing more of his 242 00:16:00,290 --> 00:16:03,250 Speaker 1: really amazing work that he did for the majority of 243 00:16:03,290 --> 00:16:06,510 Speaker 1: his career, at least his career in the wider public eye. Like, 244 00:16:06,710 --> 00:16:08,910 Speaker 1: I mean, I, like everybody else, just fell in love 245 00:16:08,930 --> 00:16:12,060 Speaker 1: with him. So I have that Typhoid Mary book, and 246 00:16:12,140 --> 00:16:14,960 Speaker 1: I have only read maybe 10 pages of it just 247 00:16:15,040 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: to think of, you know, it came at a time 248 00:16:16,940 --> 00:16:19,100 Speaker 1: when I was busy and then I never cycled back 249 00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:21,000 Speaker 1: to it. But now I want to read it because... 250 00:16:21,840 --> 00:16:25,180 Speaker 1: Because I like him heaps. And that was part of 251 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: what drew me to purchasing it when it came out 252 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:31,359 Speaker 1: was like this idea of he understands her position in 253 00:16:31,420 --> 00:16:36,850 Speaker 1: a way very few people can. And he did, you know, 254 00:16:36,930 --> 00:16:41,270 Speaker 1: have such a capability to sort of see people where 255 00:16:41,310 --> 00:16:45,750 Speaker 1: they were at. Yeah. There was an empathy. Yeah. So 256 00:16:46,770 --> 00:16:48,650 Speaker 1: that'll be the stuff you missed in a three-class book 257 00:16:48,670 --> 00:16:55,220 Speaker 1: club of one. Yeah. I feel like people are going 258 00:16:55,300 --> 00:16:58,340 Speaker 1: to immediately be like, what if there was a Stuff 259 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:00,340 Speaker 1: You Missed in History class book club? And I'm just 260 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:02,870 Speaker 1: going to say, I do not have time for a 261 00:17:02,890 --> 00:17:04,909 Speaker 1: book club. Love the idea, don't have time for it. 262 00:17:04,930 --> 00:17:07,250 Speaker 1: What a beautiful idea. There's too much to do. Sorry 263 00:17:07,290 --> 00:17:11,260 Speaker 1: I said that. I love chefs. Please don't think I 264 00:17:11,300 --> 00:17:13,379 Speaker 1: don't like chefs. I just don't like that side of 265 00:17:13,420 --> 00:17:16,310 Speaker 1: chef culture. Yeah. That I think is getting better all 266 00:17:16,350 --> 00:17:18,650 Speaker 1: the time. But for a while when chef culture really 267 00:17:18,710 --> 00:17:21,490 Speaker 1: came into the public eye via a lot of reality TV, 268 00:17:21,910 --> 00:17:24,790 Speaker 1: it was not nice and it was not cool. I 269 00:17:24,830 --> 00:17:27,090 Speaker 1: know many chefs who are wonderful and amazing. Please don't 270 00:17:27,109 --> 00:17:29,070 Speaker 1: think I'm saying that all chefs are like that. Yeah. 271 00:17:29,270 --> 00:17:32,149 Speaker 1: But I don't like that yucky. Yeah. I want my 272 00:17:32,190 --> 00:17:36,670 Speaker 1: food to be kissed into existence. I want it all 273 00:17:36,710 --> 00:17:40,340 Speaker 1: to be like Ratatouille. I don't know. Yeah. Not even. 274 00:17:40,380 --> 00:17:42,600 Speaker 1: There's a lot of bossy chef action in Ratatouille, too, 275 00:17:42,640 --> 00:17:54,790 Speaker 1: but we can't all be Alfredo Linguini. No. We talked 276 00:17:54,830 --> 00:17:58,670 Speaker 1: about Beulah Henry this week. That we did. I love 277 00:17:58,690 --> 00:18:00,510 Speaker 1: the name Beulah, and I don't know why. I just do. 278 00:18:00,770 --> 00:18:02,170 Speaker 1: It's a good name. It's just one of those names 279 00:18:02,230 --> 00:18:06,330 Speaker 1: I love. I just love it. I said that we 280 00:18:06,350 --> 00:18:08,810 Speaker 1: would talk about flag code, and we're gonna. Oh, yeah, 281 00:18:08,830 --> 00:18:12,510 Speaker 1: let's do it. I have feelings. Yeah, I mean, one 282 00:18:12,530 --> 00:18:15,629 Speaker 1: of them is actually, though, kind of lovely, which is that, 283 00:18:16,350 --> 00:18:19,470 Speaker 1: you know, her, we mentioned that Beulah's first invention, and 284 00:18:19,520 --> 00:18:21,639 Speaker 1: we're using that word loosely, her first idea for an 285 00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:24,040 Speaker 1: invention came when she was six years old because she 286 00:18:24,100 --> 00:18:27,100 Speaker 1: saw a flag graze the ground as it was being 287 00:18:27,140 --> 00:18:30,070 Speaker 1: taken down from the flagpole. And I will just say, 288 00:18:30,630 --> 00:18:32,859 Speaker 1: according to the American Legion, like, we were always taught, 289 00:18:33,060 --> 00:18:36,360 Speaker 1: probably you, I know I certainly was, as kids, like, 290 00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,379 Speaker 1: if the flag touches the ground, you've got to burn it. 291 00:18:38,780 --> 00:18:42,440 Speaker 1: It has to be destroyed. The American Legion says not so. 292 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,109 Speaker 1: They're like, no, unless it is soiled or damaged, you 293 00:18:47,130 --> 00:18:51,230 Speaker 1: can wash it. It's fine. Yeah. I also, when I 294 00:18:51,270 --> 00:18:54,470 Speaker 1: was a child, had heard slash been told, if the 295 00:18:54,510 --> 00:18:57,570 Speaker 1: flag touches the ground, you have to burn it. But 296 00:18:57,609 --> 00:19:01,350 Speaker 1: then I had also heard that that was not true. 297 00:19:02,869 --> 00:19:05,710 Speaker 1: What does kind of drive me up a wall is 298 00:19:05,730 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: the combination of overly over-the-top patriotism combined with articles of 299 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:26,179 Speaker 1: clothing and whatnot that straightforwardly are In defiance of the 300 00:19:26,220 --> 00:19:30,520 Speaker 1: flag code. Yes. I mean, I have the flag code 301 00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: here ready if you would like to hear it. Oh, 302 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:35,200 Speaker 1: I would love it. Section D states the flag should 303 00:19:35,240 --> 00:19:38,649 Speaker 1: never be used as wearing apparel, bedding, or drapery. It 304 00:19:39,050 --> 00:19:42,270 Speaker 1: should never be festooned, drawn back, nor up in folds, 305 00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:46,110 Speaker 1: but always allowed to fall free. Bunting of blue, white, 306 00:19:46,150 --> 00:19:48,770 Speaker 1: and red, always arranged with the blue above, the white 307 00:19:48,810 --> 00:19:50,310 Speaker 1: in the middle, and the red below. should be used 308 00:19:50,330 --> 00:19:52,470 Speaker 1: for covering a speaker's desk, and for covering a speaker's desk. 309 00:19:52,910 --> 00:19:56,359 Speaker 1: draping the front of a platform and for decoration in general. Uh-huh. 310 00:19:56,580 --> 00:19:59,540 Speaker 1: The flag should never be used for advertising purposes in 311 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:01,980 Speaker 1: any manner whatsoever. You can think of a lot of 312 00:20:02,020 --> 00:20:04,760 Speaker 1: businesses that are falling afoul of this one. Uh-huh. It 313 00:20:04,780 --> 00:20:07,520 Speaker 1: should not be embroidered on such articles as cushions or 314 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:11,410 Speaker 1: handkerchiefs and the like, printed or otherwise impressed on paper 315 00:20:11,470 --> 00:20:15,190 Speaker 1: napkins or boxes or anything that is designed for temporary 316 00:20:15,350 --> 00:20:19,910 Speaker 1: use and discard. Uh-huh. No part of the flag should 317 00:20:19,950 --> 00:20:23,830 Speaker 1: ever be used as a costume or athletic uniform. We 318 00:20:23,869 --> 00:20:25,909 Speaker 1: have a lot of problems. And this is kind of 319 00:20:25,930 --> 00:20:28,770 Speaker 1: my thing, right? People get really wadded up about how 320 00:20:28,810 --> 00:20:31,350 Speaker 1: a flag should be treated, but we've been discarding the 321 00:20:31,369 --> 00:20:36,690 Speaker 1: flag code forever. I'm getting ready to work on an 322 00:20:36,780 --> 00:20:39,359 Speaker 1: episode that's probably going to happen that one of the 323 00:20:39,420 --> 00:20:42,179 Speaker 1: things that we're going to talk about is how it 324 00:20:42,220 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: is a constitutional right not to salute the flag when 325 00:20:46,859 --> 00:20:50,490 Speaker 1: you're in school. So I feel a little weird defending 326 00:20:50,690 --> 00:20:54,580 Speaker 1: the idea of treating the flag respectfully. But it annoys 327 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:58,480 Speaker 1: me when people have garments that are basically like they're 328 00:20:58,500 --> 00:21:00,220 Speaker 1: just going to sit on the flag all day. Yeah, 329 00:21:00,780 --> 00:21:03,899 Speaker 1: it's weird. The other thing that was interesting in the 330 00:21:03,920 --> 00:21:06,639 Speaker 1: American Legion article about it is that, I mean, the 331 00:21:06,660 --> 00:21:11,480 Speaker 1: flag code does say if a flag is damaged or, 332 00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,119 Speaker 1: you know, soiled beyond use. that it should be destroyed. 333 00:21:15,140 --> 00:21:19,980 Speaker 1: And it does recommend burning as like a primary option, 334 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:25,560 Speaker 1: but everybody recognizes, particularly today, the flags are not always 335 00:21:25,619 --> 00:21:28,830 Speaker 1: made of things that should be burned. That's true. Will 336 00:21:28,930 --> 00:21:31,109 Speaker 1: release gross things into the air if you try to 337 00:21:31,150 --> 00:21:33,830 Speaker 1: burn them, or they will just melt and create a hazard. 338 00:21:33,950 --> 00:21:35,830 Speaker 1: So you don't have to do that. They're like, just 339 00:21:36,450 --> 00:21:38,710 Speaker 1: dispose of it in a respectful manner. That's all they want. 340 00:21:39,630 --> 00:21:43,050 Speaker 1: There was a note in the EBSCO write-up about Beulah 341 00:21:43,090 --> 00:21:45,350 Speaker 1: that said she had a brother who was a songwriter. 342 00:21:45,770 --> 00:21:47,620 Speaker 1: But I don't know anything about that, but I find 343 00:21:47,650 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: it fascinating. Their family sounds very interesting. One thing that 344 00:21:51,340 --> 00:21:53,320 Speaker 1: came up a lot, and I couldn't find anything that 345 00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,200 Speaker 1: really substantiated it or, like, talked about it from the 346 00:21:57,080 --> 00:21:59,200 Speaker 1: point of view of, like, a personal letter or anything 347 00:21:59,700 --> 00:22:02,210 Speaker 1: that would give it gravity, was that her parents were 348 00:22:02,590 --> 00:22:06,270 Speaker 1: really supportive of her being an inventor, which is unique, 349 00:22:06,570 --> 00:22:08,730 Speaker 1: you know, at a time when most girls were kind of... 350 00:22:09,510 --> 00:22:11,390 Speaker 1: brought up with the idea that they should be nice 351 00:22:11,430 --> 00:22:14,230 Speaker 1: young ladies who then get married and become wives and mothers. 352 00:22:14,560 --> 00:22:16,190 Speaker 1: I mean, they were willing to move to New York 353 00:22:16,230 --> 00:22:18,300 Speaker 1: with her so that she could follow her dream, which 354 00:22:18,380 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: is pretty terrific. There is a story about her that 355 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: I didn't put in it because I love the story, 356 00:22:25,920 --> 00:22:28,899 Speaker 1: but I couldn't... It was written about in, like, a 357 00:22:28,940 --> 00:22:33,120 Speaker 1: third-hand account, and I couldn't find the newspaper article that 358 00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:37,220 Speaker 1: it was referring to. Which is that as Beulah got famous, 359 00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:40,889 Speaker 1: she was often asked to give... like to come and 360 00:22:40,950 --> 00:22:45,180 Speaker 1: speak to various groups. And allegedly, during one of these talks, 361 00:22:45,240 --> 00:22:49,379 Speaker 1: she just kind of stopped talking and started scribbling on 362 00:22:49,420 --> 00:22:52,880 Speaker 1: a notepad that she had at the podium. And then 363 00:22:52,920 --> 00:22:55,480 Speaker 1: she was like, I'm so sorry, I just had, I 364 00:22:55,530 --> 00:22:58,630 Speaker 1: just thought of the solution to a problem of an 365 00:22:58,670 --> 00:23:00,850 Speaker 1: invention that I've been working on, and I just had 366 00:23:00,890 --> 00:23:03,010 Speaker 1: to get it down. And I, to this day, I 367 00:23:03,050 --> 00:23:06,230 Speaker 1: don't know if this evidences what a naturally suspicious person 368 00:23:06,470 --> 00:23:12,909 Speaker 1: I am, that I'm like, Beulah, Was that for show? Yeah. 369 00:23:13,530 --> 00:23:16,730 Speaker 1: Or maybe that really was what was going on with her. Yeah. 370 00:23:17,330 --> 00:23:19,430 Speaker 1: I mean, I want to have grace and not discount 371 00:23:19,470 --> 00:23:22,630 Speaker 1: people in what they say they are experiencing or doing, 372 00:23:23,070 --> 00:23:25,320 Speaker 1: but I was just like, Beulah, because there are a 373 00:23:25,340 --> 00:23:29,740 Speaker 1: few things that made me go, Beulah. Parts of her 374 00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:33,920 Speaker 1: story also remind me of other inventors that we've talked 375 00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:37,500 Speaker 1: about on the show and not. Many, many years ago, 376 00:23:38,470 --> 00:23:42,390 Speaker 1: I think I was at a job fair. I'm pretty 377 00:23:42,430 --> 00:23:44,330 Speaker 1: sure it was a job fair, but there was a 378 00:23:44,410 --> 00:23:47,250 Speaker 1: speaker at the job fair, and the speaker was the 379 00:23:47,310 --> 00:23:52,510 Speaker 1: founder of Spanx. And she told the story of how 380 00:23:52,590 --> 00:23:59,170 Speaker 1: she invented Spanx, specifically the footless pantyhose. And it was 381 00:23:59,290 --> 00:24:03,940 Speaker 1: so similar in the I want to make footless pantyhose. 382 00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,639 Speaker 1: And speaking to like the men at the factory who 383 00:24:09,680 --> 00:24:11,609 Speaker 1: would need to figure out how to make this work. 384 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,070 Speaker 1: And she clearly not having any concept of what it 385 00:24:16,109 --> 00:24:19,570 Speaker 1: would take to make pantyhose and also to make them footless. 386 00:24:20,310 --> 00:24:23,830 Speaker 1: And having kind of a similar encounter with the people 387 00:24:23,850 --> 00:24:26,149 Speaker 1: who were going to have to figure out how to 388 00:24:26,210 --> 00:24:30,510 Speaker 1: make it work. And that reminded me of I was 389 00:24:30,570 --> 00:24:34,209 Speaker 1: reminded of that in some of the stories of Beulah 390 00:24:34,230 --> 00:24:38,230 Speaker 1: trying to work things out with the fabricators. I made 391 00:24:38,290 --> 00:24:40,030 Speaker 1: a weird face while you were telling that story because 392 00:24:40,090 --> 00:24:43,030 Speaker 1: I think... I don't know if she still does, but 393 00:24:43,050 --> 00:24:45,859 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure the founder of Spanx lived here in Atlanta. Yeah. 394 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,440 Speaker 1: And she gave a lot of talks. And I think 395 00:24:49,480 --> 00:24:53,300 Speaker 1: I heard her tell that story at one point. Yeah. 396 00:24:53,359 --> 00:24:55,560 Speaker 1: This was at a job there in Atlanta. If a 397 00:24:55,619 --> 00:24:59,140 Speaker 1: job there is where it happened, it was definitely in Atlanta. Yeah, 398 00:24:59,180 --> 00:25:02,720 Speaker 1: I mean, listen... I do get the idea of like, 399 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,900 Speaker 1: I'm just going to make it myself if you don't 400 00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:07,520 Speaker 1: think it can happen. And a lot of times that 401 00:25:07,580 --> 00:25:10,550 Speaker 1: is how innovation comes about. But it is also very 402 00:25:10,609 --> 00:25:12,869 Speaker 1: funny to me. And I also have weird feelings about 403 00:25:12,910 --> 00:25:18,050 Speaker 1: the whole like, Beulah is an inventor. She's not not 404 00:25:18,090 --> 00:25:23,390 Speaker 1: an inventor, but she's more of like an envisioner. Oh, right. Yeah. 405 00:25:23,510 --> 00:25:25,770 Speaker 1: Because so many other people really had to step in 406 00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:29,590 Speaker 1: and be like, okay, you have this concept. Yeah. Like, 407 00:25:29,650 --> 00:25:31,690 Speaker 1: if it were something artistic, I would call her an 408 00:25:31,790 --> 00:25:34,600 Speaker 1: art director rather than an artist. You know what I mean? 409 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:37,659 Speaker 1: But I don't... I don't... I don't know. She had 410 00:25:37,680 --> 00:25:41,580 Speaker 1: a lot of patents. And she did maintain very long 411 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:44,970 Speaker 1: relationships with the people that she worked with. So... Clearly, 412 00:25:45,410 --> 00:25:48,250 Speaker 1: they were happy working for her. It seemed like they 413 00:25:48,270 --> 00:25:51,649 Speaker 1: would also sometimes be included in write-ups with the press, 414 00:25:51,690 --> 00:25:55,720 Speaker 1: and they would always give really lovely quotes about working 415 00:25:55,740 --> 00:25:58,060 Speaker 1: with her. I mean, granted, you can't always trust those, 416 00:25:58,140 --> 00:26:00,520 Speaker 1: but one of the men that worked with her for 417 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: more than 15 years had said he just loved it 418 00:26:03,859 --> 00:26:05,740 Speaker 1: because she would just show up and be like, here's 419 00:26:05,760 --> 00:26:08,440 Speaker 1: what I need. And he would be like, I don't know, 420 00:26:08,520 --> 00:26:11,940 Speaker 1: but okay, let's try it. And how that was actually 421 00:26:11,980 --> 00:26:16,490 Speaker 1: kind of a fun... kind of job to have. I 422 00:26:16,530 --> 00:26:19,690 Speaker 1: have a sad part of her story that I didn't 423 00:26:19,730 --> 00:26:23,160 Speaker 1: put in the episode because it's not really important, but 424 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: it just touched my heart. Hopefully I won't cry. But 425 00:26:27,580 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 1: when we were talking about her pets and you said 426 00:26:29,540 --> 00:26:32,920 Speaker 1: that's probably not great with birds, she didn't have pets 427 00:26:32,980 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: all at the same time. And one of the reasons, 428 00:26:35,820 --> 00:26:37,960 Speaker 1: to the best of my knowledge, she only ever had 429 00:26:38,140 --> 00:26:42,250 Speaker 1: one cat. But she loved that cat so deeply. Yeah. 430 00:26:42,750 --> 00:26:45,960 Speaker 1: Her cat's name was Chickadee. And when Chickadee died, she 431 00:26:46,020 --> 00:26:49,600 Speaker 1: described to a reporter that she was in such a 432 00:26:49,660 --> 00:26:52,980 Speaker 1: state of grief that she went into like a fugue 433 00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:55,420 Speaker 1: state and she just got on a bus and didn't 434 00:26:55,460 --> 00:26:58,550 Speaker 1: really know what happened and kind of came to in 435 00:26:58,590 --> 00:27:03,690 Speaker 1: Kansas City. Wow. That she had just been so stricken 436 00:27:03,710 --> 00:27:08,220 Speaker 1: with grief over her fluffy baby that she just didn't 437 00:27:08,260 --> 00:27:11,159 Speaker 1: function for a while. And who knows? She surely had 438 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:14,240 Speaker 1: a bus transfer at some point, but she was not there. 439 00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:16,540 Speaker 1: She kind of checked out for a little while and 440 00:27:16,580 --> 00:27:21,410 Speaker 1: then presumably got home. The story ends at, I realized 441 00:27:21,450 --> 00:27:24,369 Speaker 1: I was in Kansas City, so I'm assuming. Again, she 442 00:27:24,410 --> 00:27:26,649 Speaker 1: was a woman with cash, so she could easily have 443 00:27:26,690 --> 00:27:29,790 Speaker 1: been like, I will pay for ways to get home. 444 00:27:30,190 --> 00:27:32,770 Speaker 1: But it's very sweet and it's very sad. But I 445 00:27:32,810 --> 00:27:34,629 Speaker 1: don't think, my point was that I don't think she 446 00:27:34,670 --> 00:27:37,510 Speaker 1: actually had cats at the same time she had the birds. 447 00:27:38,350 --> 00:27:40,750 Speaker 1: I think the birds came later. But it's sort of 448 00:27:40,810 --> 00:27:43,970 Speaker 1: a sweet story. Yeah. Beulah, thank you for the chain 449 00:27:43,990 --> 00:27:46,010 Speaker 1: stitch machine. I said we would talk about the chain 450 00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:51,720 Speaker 1: stitch machine. Because lately I have seen chain stitch embroidery 451 00:27:51,740 --> 00:27:55,730 Speaker 1: machines popping up everywhere in my social media feed. Like, 452 00:27:55,790 --> 00:28:01,150 Speaker 1: do you remember after the NBA finals, did you see ever, 453 00:28:01,170 --> 00:28:04,100 Speaker 1: there was a guy that had a handheld chain stitch 454 00:28:04,130 --> 00:28:07,040 Speaker 1: machine and he was going out... you know, in the 455 00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:09,500 Speaker 1: streets of New York where everybody was partying. And he 456 00:28:09,540 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: would chain stitch, like, onto their regalia, like, there in 457 00:28:14,380 --> 00:28:16,850 Speaker 1: the street. Like, he would customize it for them. And 458 00:28:16,910 --> 00:28:19,090 Speaker 1: it's just a cool thing. And it's something a lot 459 00:28:19,109 --> 00:28:23,150 Speaker 1: of chain stitch embroidery specialists have done in many cases. Like, 460 00:28:23,470 --> 00:28:25,910 Speaker 1: I've seen them do stuff like that at Wren fairs, etc. 461 00:28:26,050 --> 00:28:28,520 Speaker 1: But I just loved it. And they've been in my 462 00:28:28,580 --> 00:28:30,760 Speaker 1: feed a lot lately because I'm sure I've engaged with 463 00:28:30,859 --> 00:28:34,290 Speaker 1: every chain-stitching embroidery machine post, and so they just keep 464 00:28:34,310 --> 00:28:37,889 Speaker 1: feeding me more. Great, bring it on. Thank you, algorithm. 465 00:28:38,010 --> 00:28:40,110 Speaker 1: But I just love it. And now when I think 466 00:28:40,170 --> 00:28:42,410 Speaker 1: about it, I'm like, oh, this is kind of Beulah's legacy, 467 00:28:42,510 --> 00:28:45,710 Speaker 1: is it? People can do these cool things. The other 468 00:28:45,760 --> 00:28:47,940 Speaker 1: thing that I thought about while working on this, and 469 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:52,260 Speaker 1: I did not indulge myself, was the toy that I 470 00:28:52,340 --> 00:28:55,800 Speaker 1: never got but wanted desperately as a kid. Which now 471 00:28:55,860 --> 00:28:57,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, what a gross toy. Why would I want that? 472 00:28:57,980 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: I might as well have udders and dispense milk. Did 473 00:29:01,660 --> 00:29:04,600 Speaker 1: you have a baby alive? I don't think I had 474 00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,780 Speaker 1: a baby alive. I remember the ads for them. I 475 00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,940 Speaker 1: wanted a baby alive so bad. The part that was 476 00:29:11,020 --> 00:29:14,760 Speaker 1: about the plush toys with springs in them, that was 477 00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:18,300 Speaker 1: my first thought, was that they would be kind of wiggly, 478 00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: not that they would be poseable and spring back to 479 00:29:21,840 --> 00:29:26,260 Speaker 1: their original position. Yeah. Well, baby alive, as you may 480 00:29:26,280 --> 00:29:30,180 Speaker 1: or may not recall, you would feed... And then you 481 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,950 Speaker 1: would have to change Baby Alive's diaper because it would 482 00:29:34,490 --> 00:29:37,670 Speaker 1: use the bathroom. I think I'm thinking of a different doll. 483 00:29:37,710 --> 00:29:40,500 Speaker 1: Was Baby Alive kind of wiggly? Like, sort of a 484 00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:45,780 Speaker 1: gelatinous i don't remember so okay now i gotta look 485 00:29:45,820 --> 00:29:48,340 Speaker 1: it up i said i wasn't gonna because my fear 486 00:29:48,420 --> 00:29:50,180 Speaker 1: is that if i start looking it up i'm gonna 487 00:29:50,300 --> 00:29:55,300 Speaker 1: find one on some you know yeah vintage right doll 488 00:29:55,360 --> 00:29:57,380 Speaker 1: thing and i won't Be able to resist it even 489 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,060 Speaker 1: though I don't really want a baby alive. They still 490 00:30:00,100 --> 00:30:04,900 Speaker 1: make baby alive? Oh, no. I thought she was a 491 00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:10,500 Speaker 1: one-shot wonder. They still make baby alive. And people apparently 492 00:30:10,580 --> 00:30:14,810 Speaker 1: pack diaper bags for them? Oh, dear. Yeah, baby alive. Yeah, 493 00:30:14,850 --> 00:30:19,850 Speaker 1: not wiggly. Okay. But she would go potty. Yeah. Why 494 00:30:19,890 --> 00:30:24,940 Speaker 1: would I want that? Yeah. Yeah. I did have a 495 00:30:24,980 --> 00:30:27,780 Speaker 1: doll that you could feed a bottle and then there 496 00:30:27,800 --> 00:30:30,340 Speaker 1: would be liquid. And I also had a doll where 497 00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:32,870 Speaker 1: that was fake. It was that there was the liquid 498 00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:36,890 Speaker 1: that would disappear into... I had that one. And then 499 00:30:36,930 --> 00:30:39,750 Speaker 1: there was a doll that I don't remember what the 500 00:30:39,790 --> 00:30:45,570 Speaker 1: name of it was that, like, just the physical makeup 501 00:30:45,670 --> 00:30:49,470 Speaker 1: of the doll made it so that it was kind 502 00:30:49,510 --> 00:30:51,750 Speaker 1: of wobbly, and that was what I was imagining with 503 00:30:51,770 --> 00:30:53,630 Speaker 1: the springs until I got to the part of the 504 00:30:53,650 --> 00:30:55,570 Speaker 1: paragraph that was like, so you could pose them and 505 00:30:55,590 --> 00:31:00,170 Speaker 1: put them back. Yeah, the first baby alive was 1973. Listen, 506 00:31:00,190 --> 00:31:03,030 Speaker 1: it was made by Kenner, who got a lot of 507 00:31:03,090 --> 00:31:08,580 Speaker 1: my money anyway, because, hello, Star Wars action figures. And 508 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:12,660 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure Kenner made the strawberry shortcake line, right? 509 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:15,500 Speaker 1: I don't remember. Boy, I bought a lot of that 510 00:31:15,520 --> 00:31:19,700 Speaker 1: with my allowance. Yeah. I loved, I loved, I lived 511 00:31:19,800 --> 00:31:24,540 Speaker 1: for the strawberry shortcake snail cart. Uh-huh. Oh, maybe I 512 00:31:24,600 --> 00:31:27,060 Speaker 1: need to find one of those. Baby alive, get out 513 00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:30,710 Speaker 1: of here. But strawberry shortcake snail cart. Uh-huh. Surely I 514 00:31:30,750 --> 00:31:34,290 Speaker 1: can find a use for that. Yeah. I'm trying not 515 00:31:34,330 --> 00:31:37,870 Speaker 1: to buy as much superfluous stuff because my house is 516 00:31:37,930 --> 00:31:40,940 Speaker 1: stuffed with superfluous stuff. And I really have been clearing 517 00:31:41,020 --> 00:31:45,200 Speaker 1: out a lot. But I also still love nostalgia and 518 00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:48,880 Speaker 1: I love toys. So, you know. But Kenner got so 519 00:31:48,900 --> 00:31:51,100 Speaker 1: much money from me. They didn't need my Baby Alive dollars. 520 00:31:51,160 --> 00:31:58,110 Speaker 1: They got it all in Greedo action figures. Oh, play sets. Yeah. 521 00:31:58,550 --> 00:32:01,310 Speaker 1: Which we still have. This is the best part of 522 00:32:01,350 --> 00:32:03,310 Speaker 1: being an adult is that you can keep all your 523 00:32:03,330 --> 00:32:05,290 Speaker 1: toys if you want. Play with them. Yeah. It's great. 524 00:32:06,510 --> 00:32:08,290 Speaker 1: If you have time off this weekend and you have 525 00:32:08,330 --> 00:32:09,959 Speaker 1: toys that you love, I hope you play with them. 526 00:32:10,660 --> 00:32:12,100 Speaker 1: Take them out of the boxes. Give them a kiss. 527 00:32:12,580 --> 00:32:16,590 Speaker 1: take them on adventures. They can, you know, get as 528 00:32:16,650 --> 00:32:19,570 Speaker 1: creative as you want. Although I was a very, I 529 00:32:19,610 --> 00:32:21,880 Speaker 1: have always been a very creative person, but when it 530 00:32:21,930 --> 00:32:24,560 Speaker 1: came to things like playtime, I was very rigid about 531 00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,670 Speaker 1: like not crossing the streams ever, you know? Characters from 532 00:32:28,710 --> 00:32:30,910 Speaker 1: Tatooine would not show up on Hoth even. Like I 533 00:32:30,950 --> 00:32:35,630 Speaker 1: was very, very. Anyway, however you play, I hope you 534 00:32:35,650 --> 00:32:37,820 Speaker 1: have a blast and you can get crazy with it. 535 00:32:38,110 --> 00:32:40,050 Speaker 1: I don't care if you take Baby Alive to Hoth. 536 00:32:40,110 --> 00:32:42,250 Speaker 1: Do it if you want this weekend, if that's what 537 00:32:42,290 --> 00:32:44,510 Speaker 1: makes you happy. Whatever makes you happy, I hope you 538 00:32:44,550 --> 00:32:47,229 Speaker 1: get to do it. I hope that nobody bothers you 539 00:32:47,250 --> 00:32:48,850 Speaker 1: while you're doing it and you get to have a 540 00:32:48,890 --> 00:32:51,810 Speaker 1: very relaxed time of it. Or if it's something you 541 00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:55,350 Speaker 1: do with people, I hope it's wonderful and everybody helps 542 00:32:55,650 --> 00:32:57,970 Speaker 1: bring each other joy. We all need more of it. 543 00:32:58,410 --> 00:33:00,170 Speaker 1: We will be right back here on Monday with a 544 00:33:00,190 --> 00:33:03,090 Speaker 1: brand new episode. We will also be back here tomorrow 545 00:33:03,250 --> 00:33:05,830 Speaker 1: with a classic that you can listen to while you 546 00:33:05,850 --> 00:33:13,410 Speaker 1: play with your toys. Stuff You Missed in History Class 547 00:33:13,450 --> 00:33:17,600 Speaker 1: is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 548 00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:21,300 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 549 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:22,240 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.