1 00:00:02,200 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 1: Zach Scott is here, a former MLB executive, and you 2 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: know what, Zach, I'm gonna let you do the intro 3 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:09,840 Speaker 1: because you know, I see you on TV. You've got 4 00:00:09,840 --> 00:00:12,320 Speaker 1: a lot of action going on. I love catching your 5 00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: tweets explaining more about the game. But how do you 6 00:00:15,400 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 1: introduce yourself when you're at a function these days? 7 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:22,680 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's I definitely have been pursuing a lot of 8 00:00:22,680 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: different paths, so you know, I focus right now on 9 00:00:25,720 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 2: my business for Rings, which is evolving and has a 10 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:31,520 Speaker 2: lot of different paths. So it started as something where 11 00:00:31,800 --> 00:00:36,560 Speaker 2: I consult for sports operations across all sports. I now 12 00:00:36,960 --> 00:00:42,360 Speaker 2: do leadership executive coaching with individuals, launching some group programs 13 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,599 Speaker 2: for leadership for new and emerging leaders in sports and 14 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,199 Speaker 2: out of sports. And most recently, and what's been a 15 00:00:49,200 --> 00:00:51,760 Speaker 2: lot of my focus lately has been I got into 16 00:00:51,800 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 2: the representation side. I partner with a guy named Neil 17 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:58,560 Speaker 2: Glasberg who's been representing NHL coaches and executives for fifteen 18 00:00:58,640 --> 00:01:01,760 Speaker 2: years very successfully, and he wanted to grow into the 19 00:01:01,800 --> 00:01:05,160 Speaker 2: business the baseball side of things, because you know, as 20 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:07,360 Speaker 2: I've learned from talking to people, especially in other sports, 21 00:01:07,640 --> 00:01:11,840 Speaker 2: executives and coaches are underrepresented, they don't have agents like 22 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:14,600 Speaker 2: they should in baseball, and so I think it's something 23 00:01:14,600 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 2: Baseball has been behind in and I want to help. 24 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: And I think I offer a different perspective than kind 25 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 2: of someone from the typical player agent path because I've 26 00:01:22,319 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: been in the front office. I've you know, if you're 27 00:01:24,959 --> 00:01:27,240 Speaker 2: someone that's a candidate for one of these, you know, 28 00:01:27,319 --> 00:01:30,479 Speaker 2: many managerial jobs I've I've interviewed over twenty people from 29 00:01:30,480 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 2: managerial jobs design managerial processes. So I think I'm uniquely 30 00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,360 Speaker 2: positioned to help people out to prepare for those things 31 00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 2: and hopefully get those opportunities, and similar with gms, I've 32 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,520 Speaker 2: probably helped people prepare for about a dozen interviews with 33 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,840 Speaker 2: different teams, and you know, most of the credit goes 34 00:01:46,880 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 2: to them, but most of the people I helped over 35 00:01:48,520 --> 00:01:51,280 Speaker 2: the years were either finalists or got those GM jobs. 36 00:01:51,280 --> 00:01:54,480 Speaker 2: So I wanted to I'm always trying to help people 37 00:01:55,160 --> 00:01:58,400 Speaker 2: in sports, especially, and that's one way that I think 38 00:01:58,400 --> 00:01:59,960 Speaker 2: I can do it now with where it's kind of 39 00:02:00,040 --> 00:02:02,800 Speaker 2: like a hybrid between an agent and an executive coach. 40 00:02:04,200 --> 00:02:07,040 Speaker 3: All right, Well, that leads, you know perfectly to my question. 41 00:02:07,120 --> 00:02:09,520 Speaker 3: First of all, of course, coaches and gms and everything 42 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,000 Speaker 3: are underrepresentative because Major League Baseball wants it that way 43 00:02:12,280 --> 00:02:13,800 Speaker 3: because then they don't have to pay them as much 44 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,640 Speaker 3: as they should be worse. So of course guys are like, oh, 45 00:02:16,680 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 3: I don't need an agent. If I get an agent, 46 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 3: they might not hire me. Yeah, because teams listen. I 47 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,240 Speaker 3: don't know this, but I'm assuming teams have told guys 48 00:02:23,240 --> 00:02:25,560 Speaker 3: before in the past if you hire an agent, you know, 49 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:27,680 Speaker 3: we might not do this because he's gonna ask for more. 50 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:30,040 Speaker 3: I mean, you know that firsthand. So I could be 51 00:02:30,080 --> 00:02:31,799 Speaker 3: wrong on that, but I think that's probably happened to 52 00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 3: somebody in the past. But why you mentioned all the 53 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,720 Speaker 3: openings manager opening, manager opening, manager opening. There are hardly 54 00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:41,640 Speaker 3: any GM openings. Did the owners not want to fire 55 00:02:41,680 --> 00:02:44,000 Speaker 3: their GM? And how the heck did gms always sell 56 00:02:44,040 --> 00:02:46,600 Speaker 3: their owners on oh, well, it's not my player. I 57 00:02:46,639 --> 00:02:49,240 Speaker 3: need another five years. Oh wait, oh those four years 58 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:50,800 Speaker 3: but no, no, we have a new group coming I 59 00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:52,799 Speaker 3: need to know or five more, Like how do gyms 60 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,600 Speaker 3: do it? I want to know because I know I'd 61 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 3: love to be a gym. I can just keep selling 62 00:02:56,040 --> 00:02:58,200 Speaker 3: an owner five more years, five more years, five more years, 63 00:02:58,280 --> 00:03:00,320 Speaker 3: keep giving me a raise and keep doing whatever. 64 00:03:01,120 --> 00:03:04,240 Speaker 2: Well, if you think about it, the GM is positioned 65 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,000 Speaker 2: better to have more interactions with the owner, right Like, 66 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 2: that's the person the owner talks to the most. It's 67 00:03:09,639 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: not the manager, it's not really anyone else in the organization. 68 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,640 Speaker 2: So you can that could lead to, you know, a 69 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:17,720 Speaker 2: negative relationship if you're not very good at your job 70 00:03:17,720 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 2: as a GM. But you have so many opportunities. When 71 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:21,640 Speaker 2: I was with the Mets, I talked to Steve Cohen. 72 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: Cohen almost every day, That's how he called me almost 73 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:27,240 Speaker 2: every morning before before you know, he needed to get 74 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,959 Speaker 2: to day trading on the market and so I knew 75 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:31,079 Speaker 2: that was how my day was going to start. So 76 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,720 Speaker 2: there were all these opportunities to have those conversations that 77 00:03:34,800 --> 00:03:37,880 Speaker 2: managers just don't have. And you know, I do think 78 00:03:37,880 --> 00:03:41,400 Speaker 2: though we've seen ten openings either in season or now 79 00:03:41,480 --> 00:03:43,680 Speaker 2: at the end of the season, and that's a lot. 80 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 2: I mean, that's I don't know if I can remember 81 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 2: that many at one off season. But if you look 82 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:51,080 Speaker 2: at it, it's all if you look at it individually, 83 00:03:51,080 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 2: it's like four of those guys walked away, well three 84 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:55,280 Speaker 2: of them walked away to maybe retire. One of them 85 00:03:55,320 --> 00:03:59,280 Speaker 2: had health issues, two of them were GM and manager changes, 86 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:01,840 Speaker 2: so that six right there. So I think you're the 87 00:04:01,880 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 2: ones that are really interesting are the ones that are 88 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:06,080 Speaker 2: based on performance. You know, you could say Buster Posey 89 00:04:06,160 --> 00:04:08,080 Speaker 2: knew in a job, wasn't his manager that he hired, 90 00:04:08,160 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 2: So I don't believe so it's, you know, he wants 91 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,040 Speaker 2: to have someone that's his guy and build that relationship. 92 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 2: So that makes some sense. But Pittsburgh, Baltimore, Minnesota, obviously 93 00:04:17,480 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 2: it's because they haven't performed, and I would think that, 94 00:04:21,560 --> 00:04:24,640 Speaker 2: you know, it's probably not a good sign for some 95 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 2: of those gms that it's typically the first domino to 96 00:04:27,800 --> 00:04:30,400 Speaker 2: fall can be the manager. And I'll take Pittsburgh for example, 97 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:32,400 Speaker 2: because I worked with Ben Sherrington in the past, both 98 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,240 Speaker 2: in Boston and with Consulting in Pittsburgh, and you know, 99 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 2: Ben someone that doesn't pass the buck generally. So I'm 100 00:04:38,440 --> 00:04:40,239 Speaker 2: sure he did not want to make a change because 101 00:04:40,240 --> 00:04:44,440 Speaker 2: he believes that, you know, he's very accountable and believes that, 102 00:04:44,560 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: you know, if it doesn't work, then that's a big 103 00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:48,400 Speaker 2: part of it is a failure on him, right that 104 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:50,760 Speaker 2: he hired this person and it's not working out. But 105 00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:53,280 Speaker 2: he also recognizes sometimes it is time for a new voice. 106 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 2: But then you see the president of the club come 107 00:04:56,360 --> 00:04:58,320 Speaker 2: out and say, we got to make the playoffs next year. 108 00:04:58,360 --> 00:05:00,839 Speaker 2: I mean, it almost came off as an ultimatum. So 109 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,960 Speaker 2: you know, unfortunately, like Ben maybe in the in the 110 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 2: in the sites right, he may have a target on 111 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,560 Speaker 2: his back now that the manager's changing. So you know, 112 00:05:08,640 --> 00:05:11,280 Speaker 2: I think it's all circumstantial. But yeah, you're right, it's 113 00:05:11,320 --> 00:05:14,800 Speaker 2: a lot easier to put it on the manager, and 114 00:05:14,800 --> 00:05:17,560 Speaker 2: I think oftentimes we see it that it's the manager first, 115 00:05:17,680 --> 00:05:20,120 Speaker 2: and if you hire another person doesn't work out, all 116 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:22,880 Speaker 2: of a sudden, it becomes that bullseye on the GM's back. 117 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 4: All right, all these managerial interviews, how are they differing 118 00:05:28,400 --> 00:05:33,000 Speaker 4: from organization organization? You just said some teams underperformed, some 119 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:35,839 Speaker 4: teams are in a winning window. Now some teams probably 120 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:38,719 Speaker 4: don't really care if they ever win. From an ownership standpoint, 121 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 4: how do these managerial openings, how do the interviews go 122 00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:45,720 Speaker 4: and how do they differ? 123 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:49,279 Speaker 2: Well, you know, obviously I'm not inside the walls of 124 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:52,039 Speaker 2: all these interviews that go on, but I've been on 125 00:05:52,040 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 2: the other side of them with not just it's been 126 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:56,520 Speaker 2: one organization that I was with with the Red Sox 127 00:05:56,520 --> 00:05:58,800 Speaker 2: that we did all these different managerial hirings, but it 128 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 2: was different. Gms often switch gms every four years, it 129 00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 2: seemed like, so I did get slightly different processes where 130 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: they're valuing certain things, but it's a very intense process 131 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: where there's a lot of questions. You typically have, you know, 132 00:06:13,200 --> 00:06:16,040 Speaker 2: a lot a long script of questions that you want 133 00:06:16,080 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 2: to ask in different areas and you just want to see, 134 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 2: like what are their views, what is their vision for 135 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 2: how they do things in certain ways, how do they 136 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 2: want to build a staff, what kind of culture are 137 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 2: they going to create in the clubhouse? How are they 138 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 2: how do they think through things tactically? How do they 139 00:06:29,240 --> 00:06:32,040 Speaker 2: use information in their process when they're making decisions, when 140 00:06:32,040 --> 00:06:33,960 Speaker 2: they're making out the lineup? What tools do they want 141 00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:36,200 Speaker 2: to help them make those decisions? What people do they want? 142 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 2: In that conversation, you're really trying to gauge how this 143 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:41,680 Speaker 2: person would be in this role. It's just like any 144 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,440 Speaker 2: other job. What's their vision and how prepared are they 145 00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 2: are they showing you those traits that you want your 146 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:49,240 Speaker 2: managers and preparations a big one. I've done interviews where 147 00:06:49,400 --> 00:06:52,080 Speaker 2: I was shocked at how unprepared certain candidates were for 148 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:55,000 Speaker 2: managerial interviews and clearly knew, like, this isn't going to 149 00:06:55,080 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 2: go very far. You've got to be ready to have 150 00:06:57,839 --> 00:06:59,599 Speaker 2: put a lot of thought into how you would be 151 00:06:59,720 --> 00:07:03,760 Speaker 2: in that role, and how you'd run the clubhouse, how 152 00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 2: you'd want to do things, and what kind of support 153 00:07:05,480 --> 00:07:09,400 Speaker 2: would you be looking for, and you know, what level 154 00:07:09,440 --> 00:07:12,040 Speaker 2: of interaction is helpful to you from the front office, 155 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 2: from your other coaches. I think it's a lot of 156 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,320 Speaker 2: those things that you want. I'm sure some gems go 157 00:07:16,360 --> 00:07:20,040 Speaker 2: into it with, you know, preconceived notions about what they 158 00:07:20,080 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 2: want out of their manager, and a lot of times 159 00:07:23,240 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 2: I would recommend people just be themselves and do what 160 00:07:25,200 --> 00:07:28,360 Speaker 2: they truly believe in. Is the candidate because and it 161 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,080 Speaker 2: may not be a fit and it's not a necessary, 162 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:32,720 Speaker 2: necessarily a personal thing with that candidate. It just might 163 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,920 Speaker 2: be we're not matching up, we're not aligned on kind 164 00:07:34,960 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 2: of how we're viewing this role and how it would 165 00:07:36,760 --> 00:07:37,960 Speaker 2: work on a day to day basis. 166 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:40,840 Speaker 3: Zach, I got to go back to what you said 167 00:07:40,840 --> 00:07:43,880 Speaker 3: about the Pirates. Yes, they said they have to make 168 00:07:43,880 --> 00:07:46,280 Speaker 3: the playoffs this year, but Ben Sherrington's been there for 169 00:07:46,400 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 3: quite a while now, and he's been through different managers, 170 00:07:49,440 --> 00:07:52,960 Speaker 3: and he's been through different waves of guys coming through, 171 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:56,800 Speaker 3: and I just wonder, you know, is he next like 172 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,400 Speaker 3: you said, I mean, because he he did have Shelton 173 00:07:59,400 --> 00:08:02,440 Speaker 3: and now he's a Kelly, and I think he hired 174 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 3: I don't know if he hired Shelton or whoever was 175 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:06,720 Speaker 3: before Shelton. He had too, so you know at what 176 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:09,320 Speaker 3: point And I'm not I'm just using ben Cherington because 177 00:08:09,360 --> 00:08:11,680 Speaker 3: you brought him up, But how many managers do most 178 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:15,320 Speaker 3: gms and executives get before Hey, maybe you're the wrong 179 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,760 Speaker 3: person to choose this next guy in line? 180 00:08:19,760 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I don't think there's a fact, you know, 181 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 2: a hard and fast rule to that, but I think 182 00:08:24,160 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 2: it's it's dependent on those conversations. You know what, what 183 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 2: have you articulated that you believe will work both in 184 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 2: the short and long term for your organization. And they're 185 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,520 Speaker 2: a team. Sure, they have financial constraints. I do think 186 00:08:36,600 --> 00:08:40,040 Speaker 2: every team you know has constraints that they can embrace 187 00:08:40,840 --> 00:08:42,800 Speaker 2: and realize. Okay, if we're going to have you know, 188 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:45,240 Speaker 2: if you're Tampa and Cleveland, you have the similar constraints 189 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:47,240 Speaker 2: where we're going to be really aggressive and churning our 190 00:08:47,320 --> 00:08:50,160 Speaker 2: roster as the approach that like Tampa takes, for example. 191 00:08:50,559 --> 00:08:54,760 Speaker 2: But there's different approaches to handling that navigating that world 192 00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:58,120 Speaker 2: given those constraints. So I think it's up to you know, 193 00:08:58,559 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 2: what you set is kind of how we're gonna do things, 194 00:09:01,440 --> 00:09:04,000 Speaker 2: and then how you execute that in those conversations you're 195 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,160 Speaker 2: having with the owner for them to say I still 196 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:08,000 Speaker 2: believe in this person, that they're gonna come through, that 197 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:10,000 Speaker 2: they're learning from the things that worked and didn't work, 198 00:09:10,200 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 2: that they're adaptable in trying to take a different approach 199 00:09:13,280 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: to get to where we want to be. And so 200 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of that. It's really about, 201 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:20,040 Speaker 2: you know, how things are going. Obviously we're a results 202 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,079 Speaker 2: driven world, and from our seats we're looking at from 203 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:25,360 Speaker 2: the outside looking in, you know, that's all we can judge. 204 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:28,560 Speaker 2: We don't know what conversations are going on, how someone 205 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,080 Speaker 2: goes about their work, and that's really for the people inside, 206 00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:34,440 Speaker 2: like the owner, to judge is this gonna work? Do 207 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:37,120 Speaker 2: I believe in this person anymore going forward? And that's 208 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:39,360 Speaker 2: any GM. It's not specific to Ben. We're just using 209 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 2: them as an example, but I think, yeah, they're not 210 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:43,920 Speaker 2: getting results. Why are they not getting results? Is it 211 00:09:43,960 --> 00:09:47,840 Speaker 2: because decision makings poor? Is it because other things factoring in? 212 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: Is it? Do they need more time? 213 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:49,280 Speaker 1: You know? 214 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:51,600 Speaker 2: They for the They've obviously produced a lot of really 215 00:09:51,640 --> 00:09:54,520 Speaker 2: good pitching talent. I think for the first time in 216 00:09:54,559 --> 00:09:56,480 Speaker 2: a while, they have really good position players in their 217 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:58,680 Speaker 2: minor leagues. But at some point you've got to see 218 00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 2: that turn into major league result. And you know, at 219 00:10:02,200 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 2: this point for them, it's probably do well. Do we 220 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 2: believe that we're positioned better to get those position players 221 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:09,640 Speaker 2: in the big leagues, have a more well rounded team 222 00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 2: and start really competing in that division. 223 00:10:13,160 --> 00:10:16,640 Speaker 1: That's it. This week's Arena club Slam pack pull. We 224 00:10:16,720 --> 00:10:19,679 Speaker 1: opened a Ruby. We went big. They're doing hundred fifty 225 00:10:19,720 --> 00:10:20,320 Speaker 1: dollars pack. 226 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 5: That was you know what the nerves got me. I 227 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:25,720 Speaker 5: think it was so exciting because the motion and waits 228 00:10:25,760 --> 00:10:27,760 Speaker 5: about four or five seconds for the card to come up. 229 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 5: Card that I got was over three hundred dollars a 230 00:10:30,840 --> 00:10:35,720 Speaker 5: prospect from the Mariners, and for me, I love the card. 231 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:38,760 Speaker 5: I thought it was great. Guess what I sold it back? Yeah, 232 00:10:38,760 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 5: and I got a little more money, and now I 233 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:42,000 Speaker 5: can go buy another one. You have to wait a 234 00:10:42,040 --> 00:10:44,760 Speaker 5: couple of minutes afterwards. And this is the excitement, the 235 00:10:44,840 --> 00:10:46,960 Speaker 5: whole thing. Put your money where your mouth is and 236 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:48,120 Speaker 5: have fun with Arena Club. 237 00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,400 Speaker 1: You can see that big smile on todd Father's face. 238 00:10:50,679 --> 00:10:53,559 Speaker 1: Lazarero Montes, who's supposed to be good. He's Baseball America 239 00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,839 Speaker 1: top three, he's in the Mariners organization. But Todd Father 240 00:10:57,920 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: sometimes thinks prospects or suspects going back to the well 241 00:11:01,559 --> 00:11:04,000 Speaker 1: and we'll see what he gets next time. Use the 242 00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: code foul foul at arenaclub dot com slash foul if 243 00:11:07,360 --> 00:11:08,839 Speaker 1: you want to get in on the first slap pack 244 00:11:08,920 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: experience and get twenty percent off or twenty percent off 245 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:12,840 Speaker 1: your first card purchase. 246 00:11:13,720 --> 00:11:15,000 Speaker 4: All right, I want to go to one of your 247 00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:20,240 Speaker 4: tweets about Pete Alonzo. Very creative word word soup you 248 00:11:20,280 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 4: gave us, but word salad. But you said, looks like 249 00:11:24,440 --> 00:11:26,199 Speaker 4: it may be back with the Mets on a short 250 00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,560 Speaker 4: term deal after he once again overplaced his hand in 251 00:11:29,640 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 4: the market. Rinse and repeat, Alonzo, why do you think 252 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:41,240 Speaker 4: this will happened again? Because history says Boris has these 253 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:44,679 Speaker 4: guys that have done this, Blake Snow, Matt Chapman, and 254 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,079 Speaker 4: it's turned into a big deal, kind of a weird 255 00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 4: bigger deal, but eventually they get their cash. Why do 256 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 4: you feel like it would be different for Pete? 257 00:11:54,280 --> 00:11:57,120 Speaker 2: You know, obviously that's tongue in cheek with that whole tweet, 258 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,640 Speaker 2: but I do think there's a real risk mostly Scott Boris' 259 00:12:00,679 --> 00:12:06,360 Speaker 2: clients of overplaying your hand because the formula with Scott 260 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:08,680 Speaker 2: is kind of always the same, right, It's it's asked 261 00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 2: for the moon, So you get people kind of off 262 00:12:11,240 --> 00:12:14,240 Speaker 2: their maybe low ball vision of a player before they 263 00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 2: start really negotiating, and it works a lot at the 264 00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:21,240 Speaker 2: aggregate level, right, the portfolio level portfolio of his players, right. 265 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,600 Speaker 2: So that's a good business model for me. He's been 266 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:27,440 Speaker 2: very successful, but in individual cases sometimes it doesn't fit. 267 00:12:27,559 --> 00:12:30,400 Speaker 2: And I think with Pete in particular, he's in a 268 00:12:30,440 --> 00:12:31,960 Speaker 2: better spot than he was a year ago in a 269 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,679 Speaker 2: lot of ways. Right, He had a much better year 270 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:35,920 Speaker 2: after showing two years of decline and people wondering is 271 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,960 Speaker 2: this going to be continuing? So he breaks that narrative, 272 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,959 Speaker 2: which is huge. He's you know, got a great career numbers, 273 00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:47,600 Speaker 2: but he is a year older, he is in a 274 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:51,560 Speaker 2: position that, you know, for whatever reason, whether you agree 275 00:12:51,559 --> 00:12:54,760 Speaker 2: with it or not, is valued differently. There. There isn't 276 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 2: this long history, you know, Vla Guerrero just maybe changed that. 277 00:12:58,160 --> 00:12:59,679 Speaker 2: I don't know. I think that that was a lot 278 00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:02,360 Speaker 2: of you known circumstances that worked in his favor, especially 279 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:05,800 Speaker 2: with Toronto really struggling to get people to take their 280 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:08,920 Speaker 2: money and so probably to result it in an overpay 281 00:13:08,960 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 2: for a great player but not aligned with any other 282 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:16,600 Speaker 2: comparable players in market. So I think, you know, it's 283 00:13:16,640 --> 00:13:18,640 Speaker 2: a good market for him because there's not a lot 284 00:13:18,679 --> 00:13:20,600 Speaker 2: of talent on the market. There are some high end guys, 285 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:22,680 Speaker 2: but it thins out pretty quickly. But on the other 286 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:25,559 Speaker 2: side of that coin is that means there aren't a 287 00:13:25,559 --> 00:13:27,040 Speaker 2: lot of teams that have as many holes if their 288 00:13:27,040 --> 00:13:30,040 Speaker 2: players aren't becoming free agents. So it only takes two 289 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: or three, you know, it doesn't take much to get 290 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,840 Speaker 2: the bidding up there. I just think that there's a 291 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,800 Speaker 2: real risk that if there's not an adjustment made based 292 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:40,600 Speaker 2: on the last time you did it, and then you 293 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:44,440 Speaker 2: risk having the same outcome now, like you pointed out, 294 00:13:44,520 --> 00:13:48,480 Speaker 2: sometimes Scott has made that adjustment. So I think you know, 295 00:13:48,559 --> 00:13:50,400 Speaker 2: part of it was that's what they're saying, what's out 296 00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,320 Speaker 2: their public It doesn't necessarily reflect how they're approaching it 297 00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:57,400 Speaker 2: internally on Scott's side, so it could change. But I 298 00:13:57,440 --> 00:14:00,600 Speaker 2: do think he's the type of player that fits into 299 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 2: this demographic of he's probably a DH for the future 300 00:14:03,960 --> 00:14:07,040 Speaker 2: because he's not getting any younger and he's already you know, 301 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:09,280 Speaker 2: people look at metrics today and they see that he's 302 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 2: at the bottom of you know, first base metrics. He 303 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 2: does some things well, but he's not that mobile. There's 304 00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 2: other things he doesn't do well, and I think that 305 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:18,559 Speaker 2: there's a real risk that he's limited. And we've never really, 306 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:21,880 Speaker 2: we rarely see a great market for dhs. But you know, 307 00:14:21,960 --> 00:14:24,280 Speaker 2: maybe he is that exception. Maybe he is that JD. 308 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 2: Martinez that we signed to a large deal back, you know, 309 00:14:27,280 --> 00:14:28,480 Speaker 2: several years ago in Boston. 310 00:14:28,600 --> 00:14:33,560 Speaker 3: So well, you mentioned Pete, but Alex Bragman did the 311 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 3: same thing, right, Cody Bellinger has done the same thing 312 00:14:35,600 --> 00:14:37,560 Speaker 3: for a couple of years as a GM and a 313 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 3: front office person. Do you just say, man, if we 314 00:14:39,880 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 3: can just keep signing these guys to one year deals, 315 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 3: it's great for us. I know every agent wants multi 316 00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:47,840 Speaker 3: year deals. But man, they're you know, just front office. 317 00:14:47,880 --> 00:14:50,080 Speaker 3: You're just thinking, oh, we'll just keep doing this one 318 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:51,720 Speaker 3: year at a time, and if they keep opting they 319 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,000 Speaker 3: have a great year, good they opt out. We try again. 320 00:14:54,240 --> 00:14:55,880 Speaker 3: If they don't have a great year, we'll keep them. 321 00:14:55,960 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 3: Maybe we'll get a better year of the second year. 322 00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:00,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, a lot of the you know, today's gms are 323 00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:03,600 Speaker 2: very risk averse, and that is a you know, the 324 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:06,200 Speaker 2: biggest way to kind of paralyze your club is to 325 00:15:06,200 --> 00:15:08,840 Speaker 2: give out too many long term, big, you know, top 326 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 2: of the market deals. It is an auction in free agency. 327 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:14,720 Speaker 2: So generally by definition you're you're usually the highest bidder, 328 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:17,320 Speaker 2: which means relative to the rest of the industry, you're 329 00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,600 Speaker 2: overvaluing the player, right, So if you do too many 330 00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:21,840 Speaker 2: of those and really hurt your flexibility, that's really the 331 00:15:21,880 --> 00:15:24,840 Speaker 2: only way a big market team can can paralyze themselves 332 00:15:24,840 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 2: and put themselves in a bad position long term. So 333 00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of fear of that that 334 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:31,840 Speaker 2: a lot of general managers have. But the but the 335 00:15:31,880 --> 00:15:33,880 Speaker 2: other side of it is if you don't bring in 336 00:15:34,200 --> 00:15:39,280 Speaker 2: proven impact talent, you have another kind of risk. It 337 00:15:39,360 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: maybe is more you know, something you can navigate more 338 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,040 Speaker 2: because it doesn't totally tye up your payroll, but it's 339 00:15:44,040 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 2: still a risk that you're not good enough. So I 340 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:48,960 Speaker 2: could see teams taking a hybrid approach, like if I'm 341 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:51,600 Speaker 2: if I'm in you know, David Sterns's shoes, I'm looking 342 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:53,600 Speaker 2: at it as you know, maybe I go out and 343 00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:56,160 Speaker 2: try to get you know, be aggressive early in the 344 00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:58,400 Speaker 2: market and go get a first baseman that's a little 345 00:15:58,440 --> 00:16:00,720 Speaker 2: better defender, a little bit more of a well rounded player, 346 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,840 Speaker 2: not the impact of Peter Alonzo offensively, and then I 347 00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 2: wait out Peed Alonzo and maybe he's in the mixed 348 00:16:06,160 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 2: first base DH if the market comes back to us. 349 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,600 Speaker 2: Because that's the other thing with Scott is there's a 350 00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,400 Speaker 2: timing issue a lot of the times. Unless it's like 351 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 2: the Won Soto's of the world, the absolute top market 352 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:18,760 Speaker 2: that everyone's in, sometimes you have to wait a long time. 353 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 2: We had to do that with Jad Martinez. We got 354 00:16:20,440 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 2: aggressive with Mitch Moreland early on a good value deal 355 00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,640 Speaker 2: and then focused our energy on Jad Martinez, which is 356 00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:28,520 Speaker 2: risky that we put all our eggs in that one basket, 357 00:16:28,520 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 2: but it ended up working out. We waited it out 358 00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:31,040 Speaker 2: and we got it done. 359 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:35,600 Speaker 4: How our GM's going to handle this offseason knowing that 360 00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:40,200 Speaker 4: most likely the lockout's coming. The lockout is looming, and 361 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 4: teams don't know what contract statuses will look like. Are 362 00:16:45,560 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 4: we going to see something on either end of the 363 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:50,360 Speaker 4: spectrum that's crazy because of this looming. 364 00:16:51,720 --> 00:16:53,720 Speaker 2: Yeah? I think that you see, you know, the way 365 00:16:53,760 --> 00:16:56,320 Speaker 2: most teams and whenever I've been involved with the team 366 00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:01,040 Speaker 2: during a time of financial uncertainty, which is been COVID, 367 00:17:01,440 --> 00:17:05,639 Speaker 2: which has been the economy of eight nine kind of 368 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:08,600 Speaker 2: taking a hit in you know, the overall economy and 369 00:17:08,760 --> 00:17:11,320 Speaker 2: owners getting cautious, they almost always go to a place 370 00:17:11,359 --> 00:17:13,160 Speaker 2: of caution, even a big market team like the Red 371 00:17:13,160 --> 00:17:15,879 Speaker 2: Sox where it was we don't know are people going 372 00:17:15,920 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 2: to go to baseball games now that the economy is 373 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: so tough that we're going to bounce back from this? 374 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,480 Speaker 2: Are we going to bounce back from COVID or people 375 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:23,959 Speaker 2: are going to be comfortable when it's time to come back. 376 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:26,520 Speaker 2: Are we going to bounce back from a lockout? I 377 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,400 Speaker 2: think those are real questions. So they may be fine 378 00:17:29,440 --> 00:17:32,840 Speaker 2: giving out one two year deals, but hard to project 379 00:17:32,880 --> 00:17:35,640 Speaker 2: what a contract, how a contract that's longer than that's 380 00:17:35,640 --> 00:17:38,560 Speaker 2: going to impact them financially when they don't know the financials. 381 00:17:38,680 --> 00:17:40,040 Speaker 2: We see the same thing with the teams that are 382 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:42,919 Speaker 2: affected by the uncertainty of where their local TV revenues 383 00:17:42,960 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 2: are coming from from the RSN, you know, bankruptcy issue 384 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 2: that happened, those teams tend to pull back on spending. 385 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:51,719 Speaker 2: I think other teams should look at it as an 386 00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,840 Speaker 2: opportunity if you have money that it's like, Okay, maybe 387 00:17:53,880 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 2: the market's going to be a little suppressed and there's 388 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,520 Speaker 2: an opportunity for us to get some deals because we 389 00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,240 Speaker 2: have the ability to take a little bit more financial risk. 390 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,119 Speaker 2: So I think that that's the way I would always 391 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:05,359 Speaker 2: look at it from a big market team. Was you know, 392 00:18:06,119 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 2: eight or nine is a good example because in Boston, 393 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:10,679 Speaker 2: we just tightened up. We didn't want to spend. We 394 00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: were afraid of not knowing how the economy was going 395 00:18:13,680 --> 00:18:17,920 Speaker 2: to respond. Once it bounced back, we overcorrected, but over 396 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 2: spending on guys like Carl Crawford, Data and Gonzales, and 397 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:22,439 Speaker 2: then we put on ourselves in a bad spot. But 398 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,080 Speaker 2: that was because well, we haven't spent money in a 399 00:18:24,119 --> 00:18:26,200 Speaker 2: couple of years. Now, let's be aggressive. If we instead 400 00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:28,359 Speaker 2: had been more aggressive during that when the rest of 401 00:18:28,359 --> 00:18:30,920 Speaker 2: the league was cautious. We may have gotten some good 402 00:18:30,960 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 2: deals and then not been in a market where everyone 403 00:18:33,880 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 2: was ready to spend their money because the economy did 404 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:36,200 Speaker 2: bounce back. 405 00:18:37,200 --> 00:18:39,840 Speaker 1: It's funny players are gonna be like, I'll backload my 406 00:18:40,040 --> 00:18:44,240 Speaker 1: contract if it's a seven year deal right now, no problem. 407 00:18:44,760 --> 00:18:47,440 Speaker 1: Last one for you, Zach, So, I wanted to ask 408 00:18:47,520 --> 00:18:51,080 Speaker 1: you about a question that revolves around postseason trends and 409 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: specifically on the NLCS. It's a two parter, but it 410 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:56,560 Speaker 1: revolves around the Dodgers and the Brewers. One is your 411 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,880 Speaker 1: take on if the Dodgers beating the Brewers and maybe 412 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: and winning the World Series actually affects how small market 413 00:19:04,880 --> 00:19:08,280 Speaker 1: owners are pissed off and fight even more maybe for 414 00:19:08,359 --> 00:19:11,400 Speaker 1: a salary cap, which is quite obvious that they want one. 415 00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,480 Speaker 1: The second part is how big market teams take this postseason, 416 00:19:15,640 --> 00:19:17,879 Speaker 1: and I'll use the Mets as an example. They have 417 00:19:18,160 --> 00:19:20,720 Speaker 1: somewhat publicly stated they don't want to go after these 418 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:24,440 Speaker 1: big horse long term contracts for starters, and then, oh, 419 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,040 Speaker 1: look at what the Dodgers are doing. The Mets could 420 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 1: have bought up a rotation quite like that. So your 421 00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,639 Speaker 1: take on that series and how it permeates through the 422 00:19:32,680 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: rest of the industry. 423 00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:37,000 Speaker 2: Well, I definitely think the people that, you know, the 424 00:19:37,040 --> 00:19:41,600 Speaker 2: owners of teams that already aren't happy with the way 425 00:19:41,640 --> 00:19:44,320 Speaker 2: it works, this system and that's currently in place, and 426 00:19:44,359 --> 00:19:47,040 Speaker 2: they tend to be mid low market teams. Of course 427 00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:48,720 Speaker 2: they're going to use it. Right. If the Dodgers winn 428 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:51,360 Speaker 2: is like, see this is not sustainable, no one else 429 00:19:51,359 --> 00:19:54,000 Speaker 2: has a chance. But meanwhile we see a lot of 430 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:57,080 Speaker 2: other teams that normally aren't there in these final four teams. 431 00:19:57,119 --> 00:20:01,600 Speaker 2: So I definitely think that's a possibility that that's kind 432 00:20:01,600 --> 00:20:03,680 Speaker 2: of making them feel stronger in their argument and they 433 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:07,359 Speaker 2: dig in further. But the Dodters, to me, the lesson 434 00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,600 Speaker 2: is that they do a lot of things really well, 435 00:20:10,720 --> 00:20:13,119 Speaker 2: and so like you could go out and just outspend everybody, 436 00:20:13,480 --> 00:20:16,400 Speaker 2: but then the puzzle pieces don't fit well together. They 437 00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 2: do a good job like they do. You know, they 438 00:20:18,160 --> 00:20:20,680 Speaker 2: sign someone like Mookie Bets, who's a very selfless guy 439 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:22,239 Speaker 2: who was very fortunate to get to be around him 440 00:20:22,240 --> 00:20:24,840 Speaker 2: and hear him talk to other players about hitting, and 441 00:20:24,880 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 2: he's someone that most superstars aren't willing to go back 442 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:29,840 Speaker 2: to a position that quite honestly, he moved off of 443 00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 2: because he had the yips and the minors, So that's 444 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:34,640 Speaker 2: pretty amazing that he could go back all these years 445 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,080 Speaker 2: later and start playing shortstop. And that kind of selflessness 446 00:20:38,080 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 2: and team first mentality is what they have. And they're 447 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 2: usually more fundamentally sound than a lot of other teams, 448 00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:46,479 Speaker 2: so I think that's part of the lesson. Sure they 449 00:20:46,480 --> 00:20:48,080 Speaker 2: spend a lot, but before they spend a lot, they 450 00:20:48,080 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 2: were always contending for world championship teams. They do a 451 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:54,040 Speaker 2: lot of things well, that's why they're a model organization, 452 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,800 Speaker 2: and I think in the case of the Mets, yeah, 453 00:20:56,840 --> 00:20:58,440 Speaker 2: they got to be careful the Mets. If they go 454 00:20:58,560 --> 00:21:01,080 Speaker 2: crazy spending this offseason or not, they're still going to 455 00:21:01,119 --> 00:21:03,000 Speaker 2: have a huge payroll next year. It's just you know, 456 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:06,440 Speaker 2: obviously the Sodo signing and Lindor contract and other things, 457 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,719 Speaker 2: so they're already before you sign anybody, pretty high up 458 00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:12,680 Speaker 2: there and spending. So I don't think they'll ever be 459 00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:15,680 Speaker 2: accused of not spending a lot. But you know, once 460 00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 2: you start, like I said, before, you start adding big 461 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,400 Speaker 2: contracts like a Wan Soto on top of the lind 462 00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:23,600 Speaker 2: Or contract. As he's getting deeper into his thirties, you 463 00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,840 Speaker 2: start compounding your risk. And so I'm sure, you know, 464 00:21:26,880 --> 00:21:29,720 Speaker 2: David Strains, coming from a small mid market, small market team, 465 00:21:29,720 --> 00:21:33,359 Speaker 2: really is very aware of that that there is some risk. 466 00:21:33,520 --> 00:21:35,439 Speaker 2: It is how METS teams of the past got in 467 00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:39,480 Speaker 2: trouble by, you know, spending high dollars in the day. 468 00:21:39,480 --> 00:21:41,000 Speaker 2: You know, obviously Bobby Bunia is the one that was 469 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,120 Speaker 2: always brot up because he's still getting paid and then 470 00:21:43,160 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 2: getting paralyzed and unable to kind of get out of 471 00:21:45,240 --> 00:21:47,320 Speaker 2: that and then having a long cycle of losing, and 472 00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,000 Speaker 2: that's what they want to avoid. They want to, you know, 473 00:21:50,280 --> 00:21:53,160 Speaker 2: have sustainable success like everyone does and compete year after year. 474 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,240 Speaker 2: So it's a sweet spot that they're going to try 475 00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:57,080 Speaker 2: to find. But they're going to spend money no matter what, 476 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:58,680 Speaker 2: because they're already there. 477 00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,360 Speaker 1: This episode of Foul Territory is brought to you by 478 00:22:03,680 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: Fox One. Fox one is now live stream all of 479 00:22:06,960 --> 00:22:11,800 Speaker 1: your Fox favorites together in one place, from MLB postseason 480 00:22:11,840 --> 00:22:15,680 Speaker 1: games to the NFL on Fox to Big Noon Saturdays 481 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,040 Speaker 1: with Fox One. You get it all live. Start your 482 00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,760 Speaker 1: seven day free trial today. Offers are subject to change. 483 00:22:22,040 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: Go to Fox one for complete terms and conditions. We 484 00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:30,040 Speaker 1: have the website in the description of this episode, it's 485 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:34,480 Speaker 1: Fox one. It's streaming now for the baseball fans here 486 00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:37,439 Speaker 1: on fteen. We know you love baseball. If you're listening 487 00:22:37,520 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 1: to the show, you get LCS games right, and the 488 00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:48,000 Speaker 1: entire World Series every year is on Fox. So if 489 00:22:48,040 --> 00:22:51,520 Speaker 1: you don't have normal cable or you can't get the channel, 490 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,840 Speaker 1: Fox one is the solution for you. Now, the app 491 00:22:54,880 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: that solves it all again. Go to Fox one and 492 00:22:58,840 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 1: start a seven day free trial to see for yourself 493 00:23:02,240 --> 00:23:03,000 Speaker 1: how money it is. 494 00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:07,080 Speaker 3: All right, So what I've heard you say, Zach is 495 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:11,440 Speaker 3: owners are averse to risk, okay. And by the way, 496 00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:13,560 Speaker 3: I if the Dodgers win, I think it's more of 497 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,439 Speaker 3: an indictment on the other teams that you need to 498 00:23:15,440 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 3: spend to win. So I totally disagree with people saying, oh, 499 00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:20,639 Speaker 3: c the end of baseball if the Dodgers win. No, 500 00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,800 Speaker 3: the owners that don't want to spend they're going to 501 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:24,840 Speaker 3: use it because they don't want to spend their money 502 00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:27,280 Speaker 3: and they're happy making the revenue sharing and the Pittsburgh's 503 00:23:27,280 --> 00:23:28,879 Speaker 3: and we know the teams we don't need to go 504 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,199 Speaker 3: through in the Rays and those teams, Okay, But What 505 00:23:31,240 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 3: I don't understand is, and you've been in the front office, 506 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 3: why do owners talk themselves out of signing good players. 507 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:38,840 Speaker 3: There are plenty of good players that can help you win, 508 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:41,439 Speaker 3: and I feel like we hear more about, well, we 509 00:23:41,480 --> 00:23:44,280 Speaker 3: don't want to do this because the fifth year might 510 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,760 Speaker 3: hurt us. Yeah, but we might win two World Series 511 00:23:46,760 --> 00:23:49,119 Speaker 3: in those first four years. That's what the That's the 512 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 3: way I think the Dodgers look at it, and even 513 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,199 Speaker 3: the Phillies, even though they haven't won. Certain teams they 514 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,200 Speaker 3: look at it and say, we could win. Some owners 515 00:23:55,240 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 3: are more positive, like we can do this, and some 516 00:23:57,480 --> 00:23:59,399 Speaker 3: owners are more, oh, well, man, I don't want to 517 00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:01,600 Speaker 3: have to spend that money we might not win. Is 518 00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:03,840 Speaker 3: there a different mindset for different owners and how they 519 00:24:03,880 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 3: go about just saying like, screw it, I'm going for 520 00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:07,680 Speaker 3: like the I'll use Washington. 521 00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 2: Right. 522 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:10,359 Speaker 3: The Learners were like, screw We're going all in, and 523 00:24:10,359 --> 00:24:12,000 Speaker 3: they won and it made it all worth And now 524 00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:13,920 Speaker 3: it suck because it was during COVID and they didn't 525 00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:15,399 Speaker 3: get to celebrate and do a lot of the stuff. 526 00:24:15,400 --> 00:24:17,800 Speaker 3: But they've said, oh, screw it, we're gonna win. Right. 527 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:19,800 Speaker 3: The Illa just tried in Detroit and it didn't work out. 528 00:24:19,840 --> 00:24:21,679 Speaker 3: They got to the World Series, never won. But are 529 00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,399 Speaker 3: there different owners that are just more like looking for 530 00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 3: reasons not the signed players. 531 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:30,280 Speaker 2: I think, like any human being, we tend to be 532 00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:33,040 Speaker 2: wired towards the negative, thinking of the negative, what's the 533 00:24:33,040 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 2: downside risk without giving enough weight on the upside, right, 534 00:24:37,040 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: And so I think sometimes what you mentioned Detroit, you know, 535 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 2: similar person and situation in Boston when we won in 536 00:24:43,040 --> 00:24:45,240 Speaker 2: twenty eighteen, right Like, we had a great young core, 537 00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,040 Speaker 2: so we decided to be really aggressive and spending to 538 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:50,359 Speaker 2: support that core so we could go for it. And 539 00:24:50,440 --> 00:24:52,679 Speaker 2: on the other end of that, yeah, there's risk that 540 00:24:52,760 --> 00:24:55,040 Speaker 2: you you know, maybe you go too far and you 541 00:24:55,080 --> 00:24:57,120 Speaker 2: have to kind of wear it for a few years 542 00:24:57,119 --> 00:24:59,719 Speaker 2: before you're back to where you want to be. It 543 00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 2: is art to sustain success beyond a five year window, 544 00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:04,840 Speaker 2: it really is. So I think there's that part of 545 00:25:04,840 --> 00:25:07,360 Speaker 2: it where you get reactionary depending on where you're at, 546 00:25:07,560 --> 00:25:10,000 Speaker 2: and you get a little emotional. These guys you know, 547 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:12,159 Speaker 2: been around them, they can be emotional, even when some 548 00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:13,960 Speaker 2: of them seem like they're not those types of people. 549 00:25:14,640 --> 00:25:16,120 Speaker 2: So I think that's part of it. But I also 550 00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:19,800 Speaker 2: think the changes to you know the rules that playoff, 551 00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,040 Speaker 2: it's easier to get in the playoffs, like you can 552 00:25:22,119 --> 00:25:24,200 Speaker 2: be close to a five hundred team and get in 553 00:25:24,240 --> 00:25:27,560 Speaker 2: the playoffs. It almost creates, you know, with with parity 554 00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:32,920 Speaker 2: or more opportunity, creates less urgency for people to go 555 00:25:33,000 --> 00:25:35,479 Speaker 2: for it, whatever that may mean to different clubs, because 556 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,600 Speaker 2: we may be able to sneak in and then get 557 00:25:37,640 --> 00:25:40,280 Speaker 2: hot and win a World Series. They almost some of 558 00:25:40,320 --> 00:25:43,480 Speaker 2: these guys think it's almost very arbitrary who's winning. I 559 00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 2: think it's actually good for a team like the Dodgers 560 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:49,200 Speaker 2: to win. To say, no, it's not like you can 561 00:25:49,240 --> 00:25:52,200 Speaker 2: build a better team if you start convincing yourself like, oh, 562 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,120 Speaker 2: it doesn't really matter. It's all kind of random, which 563 00:25:54,119 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 2: I've heard on the record. Some owners say that John 564 00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,399 Speaker 2: Henry said that not that long ago, and to me, 565 00:25:59,480 --> 00:26:02,199 Speaker 2: it's like, well, that's that's not accurate, and that's not 566 00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:05,679 Speaker 2: how we operated when we did win in Boston. So 567 00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,240 Speaker 2: I do think when you start trying to water things 568 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:10,840 Speaker 2: down a little bit, you don't have kind of the 569 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 2: super teams that that you may have had in the 570 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: past during like Yankee Dynasties and other teams that were 571 00:26:15,560 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 2: like really separating themselves from other other clubs. That's kind 572 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,000 Speaker 2: of what happens, is you get if you look at 573 00:26:22,040 --> 00:26:24,640 Speaker 2: it's like, besides the Dodgers, there's you know, Toronto, Seattle 574 00:26:24,680 --> 00:26:27,760 Speaker 2: teams we don't usually see. You know, Milwaukee's going deeper 575 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,320 Speaker 2: than they often do. So I think it's easy to 576 00:26:31,359 --> 00:26:33,120 Speaker 2: look at that and say, look at those three teams 577 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:34,359 Speaker 2: and focus on and be like, oh, you know, we 578 00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,959 Speaker 2: don't need to we don't need to to you know, 579 00:26:37,040 --> 00:26:39,280 Speaker 2: go crazy. It's just kind of going to change all 580 00:26:39,320 --> 00:26:41,280 Speaker 2: the time. Who's in there. So, you know, Texas and 581 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:43,879 Speaker 2: our Arizona being in the World Series a few years ago, 582 00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 2: a couple of years ago. I think that's. Unfortunately, what 583 00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:50,280 Speaker 2: happens is it starts disincentivizing people being more aggressive. 584 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:55,560 Speaker 1: Spot on, great answer, really really on the same page 585 00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:57,520 Speaker 1: on that one, Zach, Yeah, Oh it's a crap shot. 586 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:58,040 Speaker 5: Everything's crap. 587 00:26:58,440 --> 00:27:00,359 Speaker 1: No, it's not. Come on, if you want the game 588 00:27:00,400 --> 00:27:02,240 Speaker 1: every day, you know that's not true at all. And 589 00:27:02,320 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: you can build for the regular season, build a little 590 00:27:04,320 --> 00:27:06,879 Speaker 1: bit differently for the postseason with your plans, which I 591 00:27:06,880 --> 00:27:09,240 Speaker 1: think the Dodgers do well. We can talk for hours. 592 00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: I know, you gotta jump we gotta jump, but great 593 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,480 Speaker 1: to have you on. We always enjoy this. Give Zach 594 00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,040 Speaker 1: follow at Zack Scott Sports to see everything going on 595 00:27:17,080 --> 00:27:19,560 Speaker 1: in his world. And I hope you get those salaries 596 00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:21,719 Speaker 1: raised for the coaches and the gyms. I'm all about it. 597 00:27:21,760 --> 00:27:22,360 Speaker 1: Thank you, Zach. 598 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,399 Speaker 2: That's right. Thanks guys, appreciate it. 599 00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,280 Speaker 1: Hey, look at this tweet from Barry Bloom over at Sportco. 600 00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: He said, every team in baseball can afford to do this. Hell, 601 00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,920 Speaker 1: the A's and Rays pockets seventy million in revenue sharing 602 00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,200 Speaker 1: every season. He's talking about big signings. Most owners don't 603 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:36,920 Speaker 1: want to be competitive. 604 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:37,159 Speaker 3: Some do. 605 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: When fans try to hold their feet to the fire 606 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,960 Speaker 1: and boycott games, they lose the team. Like Oakland, he's 607 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,840 Speaker 1: a senior writer over Asportico. They know what teams are 608 00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,439 Speaker 1: making and they are holding them accountable. But it's not 609 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,000 Speaker 1: like anything necessarily happens. I know we talk about this 610 00:27:53,119 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 1: a lot in the offseason, but it is a real thing. 611 00:27:57,840 --> 00:27:59,800 Speaker 3: Let me ask you all this, when a team makes 612 00:27:59,840 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 3: the playoffs, how much money do you think a team 613 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:06,080 Speaker 3: makes for a home game. I don't know. I've asked this, 614 00:28:06,119 --> 00:28:09,760 Speaker 3: and it's not publicly. It's not given out to the public, right, 615 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:12,000 Speaker 3: which I don't understand. Why can't we find out We 616 00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,080 Speaker 3: can find out how much revenue a team generates, but 617 00:28:14,119 --> 00:28:16,440 Speaker 3: how can we not find out per game how much 618 00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 3: a team in the Major League Baseball max? I mean, 619 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:22,240 Speaker 3: I'm thinking it's got to be five to ten million 620 00:28:22,359 --> 00:28:24,320 Speaker 3: at least, if not more. I mean, I'm just looking 621 00:28:24,359 --> 00:28:27,120 Speaker 3: at ticket sales. I know what tickets cost, parking concessions. 622 00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,600 Speaker 3: I mean, I'm just going low here. Let's say they 623 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,800 Speaker 3: make twenty million per playoff home game, So that means 624 00:28:32,840 --> 00:28:34,959 Speaker 3: the Mariners this year have made they're going to make 625 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:38,520 Speaker 3: at least one hundred and fifty to one hundred million 626 00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,640 Speaker 3: extra dollars because they made it to the second round. 627 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:44,320 Speaker 1: I'm just ty has a safe number, and we're going 628 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:46,400 Speaker 1: to go with that since they won't make it public. 629 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:48,840 Speaker 1: Twenty is a safe number. Just keep in mind that 630 00:28:48,920 --> 00:28:51,560 Speaker 1: some of that goes to players, a chunk of that 631 00:28:51,600 --> 00:28:53,680 Speaker 1: goes to the league and other owners and all that, Right, 632 00:28:53,720 --> 00:28:55,760 Speaker 1: So there's some splitting that goes on. So let's say 633 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 1: even that they pocket ten per playoff game. Because also 634 00:28:58,960 --> 00:29:01,040 Speaker 1: there's merch that you can count. There's all kinds of things. 635 00:29:01,080 --> 00:29:03,600 Speaker 1: Let's say it's ten per playoff game. It's a lot, 636 00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: a lot of money. Hey, Jed Hoyer spoke as he 637 00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:11,640 Speaker 1: addressed the rest of the Cubs twenty twenty five, I'm 638 00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,080 Speaker 1: confident we're gonna have enough money to field a good team. 639 00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:16,960 Speaker 1: Talking about twenty twenty six. According to spot Track, Cubs 640 00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,560 Speaker 1: total payroll allegation this season allocation was two eleven mil, 641 00:29:20,920 --> 00:29:25,800 Speaker 1: tenth in baseball. We obviously get some fans aj that 642 00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: say we're a Cub hater show because you love them 643 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,960 Speaker 1: so much, and that is fair on your side. I 644 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,200 Speaker 1: actually think I give them a good chunk of credit, 645 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:35,280 Speaker 1: and I give Jed Hoyer credit this year for working 646 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:38,000 Speaker 1: with what he was given. But they're not operating like 647 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,600 Speaker 1: a big market team. They operate more like a bigger 648 00:29:41,880 --> 00:29:42,840 Speaker 1: mid market team. 649 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,280 Speaker 3: No, they operate like a team that isn't the Cubs 650 00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:49,400 Speaker 3: is what they operate like. And by the way, Han Perdido, 651 00:29:49,480 --> 00:29:52,320 Speaker 3: Cub fans, Han Perdido, Okay, that's my new sling every 652 00:29:52,360 --> 00:29:55,440 Speaker 3: time anyone pisses me off on Perdido. But here's my thing. 653 00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:59,160 Speaker 3: You're the Cubs. You sell out every single game, you 654 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,680 Speaker 3: have your own TV network, you have the whole area 655 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 3: around Wrigley that you own. You are making so much 656 00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 3: damn money, and then your GM has to come out 657 00:30:07,240 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 3: and say, we hope we have the money to field 658 00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:14,200 Speaker 3: a good team. What are you talking about? Well, this 659 00:30:14,240 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 3: shouldn't even be a thing. Again, this goes back to 660 00:30:16,320 --> 00:30:18,440 Speaker 3: my point. There's owners that want to win and there's 661 00:30:18,440 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 3: owners that just want to cash checks. Right, the Rickets 662 00:30:20,720 --> 00:30:24,400 Speaker 3: won twenty sixteen EMUs CATOOLI. Okay, if you don't know 663 00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 3: what that means, look it up cup fans because it 664 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,120 Speaker 3: because they had to take the sign down because it 665 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:29,280 Speaker 3: hurts your feelings too bad. 666 00:30:29,360 --> 00:30:31,360 Speaker 4: Okay, but listen, they're. 667 00:30:31,160 --> 00:30:33,360 Speaker 3: Making enough money they can spend whatever they want. They 668 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:35,480 Speaker 3: just don't want to because the Rickets they want to 669 00:30:35,480 --> 00:30:36,960 Speaker 3: make money and they're making a killing