1
00:00:05,840 --> 00:00:10,520
Speaker 1: Leadership is an extraordinary task. If you ask ten people

2
00:00:10,560 --> 00:00:15,120
Speaker 1: what leadership means, you'll probably get ten different answers. And

3
00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:21,640
Speaker 1: to lead people in any situation takes a lot of things. Courage, humility, tenacity, conviction, wisdom.

4
00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:28,240
Speaker 1: The list goes on and on. Sometimes leadership means charging

5
00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:30,800
Speaker 1: a hill through a volley of enemy fire and rallying

6
00:00:30,840 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 1: your troops to follow. It means allowing your troops to

7
00:00:34,720 --> 00:00:39,560
Speaker 1: eat first and you eat last. It means making hard decisions,

8
00:00:39,640 --> 00:00:44,640
Speaker 1: even unpopular decisions. If you're not pissing someone off every

9
00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:47,000
Speaker 1: now and again as a leader, you're just not doing

10
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:52,000
Speaker 1: your job. More often than not, the greatest leader is

11
00:00:52,040 --> 00:00:57,080
Speaker 1: the one who's failed the most, who's made mistakes, learned

12
00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:01,279
Speaker 1: from them, and got back on their feet asked for advice.

13
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:05,320
Speaker 1: Great leaders tell you of their failures in the lessons

14
00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:10,280
Speaker 1: they learned more often than their triumphs, and through it all.

15
00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:15,000
Speaker 1: It's a fighting mentality that pushes the greatest leaders through

16
00:01:15,080 --> 00:01:20,280
Speaker 1: struggle and into greatness. My guest today is that type

17
00:01:20,360 --> 00:01:24,560
Speaker 1: of leader. Dave McCormick is one of the most impressive

18
00:01:24,560 --> 00:01:28,080
Speaker 1: people I've ever met. He's born and raised in Pennsylvania.

19
00:01:28,840 --> 00:01:32,000
Speaker 1: He's a West Point graduate, he's an Army officer. Dave

20
00:01:32,280 --> 00:01:36,120
Speaker 1: is also a business leader who's grown companies and worked

21
00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,800
Speaker 1: at one of the largest hedge funds in the entire

22
00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:43,480
Speaker 1: world before being fired, only to return and become CEO.

23
00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:48,520
Speaker 1: He served in the Trump White House. He narrowly lost

24
00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,360
Speaker 1: the nomination for Pennsylvania Senate seat in twenty twenty two,

25
00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:56,080
Speaker 1: and even then he stayed in the fight. Dave is

26
00:01:56,400 --> 00:01:59,720
Speaker 1: a leader and a fighter by nature. His new book,

27
00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:03,680
Speaker 1: Superpower in Peril, A Battle Plan to for New America,

28
00:02:04,280 --> 00:02:07,880
Speaker 1: is a bold and thoughtful vision for how to move

29
00:02:07,920 --> 00:02:13,120
Speaker 1: America forward and win the fight for our nation. Ladies

30
00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:17,120
Speaker 1: and gentlemen. Without further ado, I give you my discussion

31
00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:18,440
Speaker 1: with Dave McCormick.

32
00:02:18,480 --> 00:02:19,440
Speaker 2: I hope you enjoyed it.

33
00:02:23,639 --> 00:02:28,240
Speaker 1: Hey, Dave McCormick, welcome to battleground. You are fresh off

34
00:02:28,240 --> 00:02:31,600
Speaker 1: of Senate race and now you've got this amazing book out.

35
00:02:31,840 --> 00:02:36,720
Speaker 1: It's called Superpower in Peril, and man, I read it

36
00:02:36,760 --> 00:02:41,320
Speaker 1: cover to cover. I think it's phenomenal. So fill me in.

37
00:02:41,440 --> 00:02:44,680
Speaker 1: How how has life been post Senate run?

38
00:02:45,360 --> 00:02:47,320
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well that hey Sean, thanks for having me. It's

39
00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:49,640
Speaker 2: great to see you and thanks for thanks for all

40
00:02:49,680 --> 00:02:52,440
Speaker 2: your supports. During the campaign. You know, listen, it's been

41
00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:55,760
Speaker 2: a whole new world for me because I haven't I

42
00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,480
Speaker 2: haven't not had a job since it was ad, you know,

43
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:01,400
Speaker 2: And so my wife is say, Okay, I think it's time.

44
00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:04,200
Speaker 2: I think it's time to get back to work. But

45
00:03:05,160 --> 00:03:08,160
Speaker 2: the book has offered me an opportunity to really step

46
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,960
Speaker 2: back and think a bit. And you know, I started

47
00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:13,680
Speaker 2: the book a couple of years ago, long before I

48
00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,080
Speaker 2: decided to run for the Senate, and the book was

49
00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:18,040
Speaker 2: based on my belief that the country was headed in

50
00:03:18,080 --> 00:03:21,520
Speaker 2: the wrong direction and that we needed a positive vision

51
00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,320
Speaker 2: to take the Republican Party forward, to take the country forward.

52
00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:27,320
Speaker 2: And that was honestly the same reason I ran for

53
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:30,000
Speaker 2: the Senate. So the book came before the Senate race,

54
00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:34,440
Speaker 2: and the Senate race just reaffirmed everything that I was thinking.

55
00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,560
Speaker 2: But it made it more tangible because I saw people

56
00:03:37,560 --> 00:03:39,960
Speaker 2: on the ground that were reinforcing what Ventanyl's doing, or

57
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,160
Speaker 2: inflation's doing, or you know, these terrible policies that are

58
00:03:44,160 --> 00:03:47,400
Speaker 2: taking our country in their wrong direction. And so in essence,

59
00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:51,160
Speaker 2: the books is a plan for how to renew America.

60
00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:56,200
Speaker 2: And you know, there's no doubt we're in decline. Economically, spiritually,

61
00:03:56,280 --> 00:03:58,360
Speaker 2: from a national security perspective. But the client is not

62
00:03:58,400 --> 00:04:02,040
Speaker 2: inevitable either is renewal. It depends on what we do.

63
00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:04,880
Speaker 2: And this book is about what we do by educating

64
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,560
Speaker 2: our children. It's about confronting China, it's about securing America.

65
00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:12,839
Speaker 2: And it's been a great, great opportunity to really put

66
00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:13,640
Speaker 2: everything on paper.

67
00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:17,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, like I said, I I loved it. And you know,

68
00:04:17,800 --> 00:04:20,799
Speaker 1: anyone that knows me knows that I'm a closet policy wonk.

69
00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:25,160
Speaker 1: I do love and appreciate somebody that understands policy and

70
00:04:25,240 --> 00:04:28,159
Speaker 1: so much about people you know. So much about running

71
00:04:28,160 --> 00:04:30,880
Speaker 1: for office is you know, being inspired to do it

72
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,719
Speaker 1: for the right reasons, representing your constituents or your state.

73
00:04:34,160 --> 00:04:37,440
Speaker 1: And what I loved about Superpower and Peril is that

74
00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:42,479
Speaker 1: it blends your life's story and things that influenced you

75
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,120
Speaker 1: with the policy policy positions that you hold now. And

76
00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:48,440
Speaker 1: I think you're gonna be. I think we're gonna you're

77
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 1: gonna you're gonna end up being in Washington someday, Dave,

78
00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,160
Speaker 1: and you're gonna be. I know that you're gonna have

79
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,120
Speaker 1: a bold legislative agenda when you get there. But so

80
00:04:56,279 --> 00:04:58,480
Speaker 1: much about it What I like about this is You're

81
00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:01,080
Speaker 1: not just a guy that's going down there, that wants

82
00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:03,800
Speaker 1: to go down there to lay on the railroad tracks

83
00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:07,520
Speaker 1: and block productive legislation, especially if it's good for America.

84
00:05:08,279 --> 00:05:12,440
Speaker 1: This book it's it is a it is a blueprint,

85
00:05:12,839 --> 00:05:16,560
Speaker 1: a pathway forward for this country to get us back

86
00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,520
Speaker 1: on the right path. And you say something in this book,

87
00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:20,240
Speaker 1: and I'm going to read a direct quote, Dave, because

88
00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,120
Speaker 1: this is something that resonated with me deeply. We need

89
00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:27,880
Speaker 1: a rebirth of leadership across government, institutions and society, and

90
00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:31,080
Speaker 1: that is the central focus of this book. And so

91
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:34,720
Speaker 1: I guess there's so much that I want to talk

92
00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:38,919
Speaker 1: to you about, Dave, but this this quote. How do

93
00:05:39,000 --> 00:05:42,599
Speaker 1: we get there when, like in a state in Pennsylvania,

94
00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,719
Speaker 1: we elect a guy like John Fetterman, who I mean,

95
00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,200
Speaker 1: I'll say this, He's been a trust fund baby his

96
00:05:48,320 --> 00:05:51,200
Speaker 1: entire life, never really worked a day in his life,

97
00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,520
Speaker 1: and has done nothing in the private sector and worked

98
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:56,400
Speaker 1: almost his entire career in government. So how do we

99
00:05:56,600 --> 00:05:58,960
Speaker 1: how do we shift the culture, Dave, and get in

100
00:06:00,160 --> 00:06:02,240
Speaker 1: get to a place where there's a rebirth of leadership

101
00:06:02,240 --> 00:06:04,000
Speaker 1: across our institutions and in government.

102
00:06:05,040 --> 00:06:07,960
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, thanks for saying that. I you know, you

103
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,840
Speaker 2: are a great example of someone who also has served

104
00:06:10,880 --> 00:06:13,600
Speaker 2: and been a patriot and you know, thought about something

105
00:06:13,640 --> 00:06:15,720
Speaker 2: bigger than yourself. And that's the first part of leadership.

106
00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,760
Speaker 2: Is leadership is not about you, right, It's about others.

107
00:06:18,839 --> 00:06:22,200
Speaker 2: It's about servant leadership and helping your platoon or your

108
00:06:22,240 --> 00:06:25,280
Speaker 2: company or your country get on the right path. And

109
00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:28,160
Speaker 2: you know, I'm optimistic. The book's optimistic. If you look

110
00:06:28,160 --> 00:06:31,039
Speaker 2: at the cover. The cover is pretty daunting. It's like

111
00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,640
Speaker 2: red and blue and it's like, you know, America, superpower

112
00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,720
Speaker 2: in peril, But which is what I believe. I believe

113
00:06:38,200 --> 00:06:41,599
Speaker 2: we are in peril. But I also believe that we

114
00:06:41,640 --> 00:06:44,400
Speaker 2: can renew ourselves because that's the American story. You know,

115
00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:46,600
Speaker 2: We've done it over and over again, and I talk

116
00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:48,080
Speaker 2: about it in the book. I won't spend too much

117
00:06:48,120 --> 00:06:52,039
Speaker 2: time on it. But I'm confident about our future because

118
00:06:52,080 --> 00:06:54,400
Speaker 2: I've been there before. I you know, I'm older than you.

119
00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:58,120
Speaker 2: I was. I was fourteen fifteen during the final days

120
00:06:58,120 --> 00:07:01,240
Speaker 2: of Carter and it felt a lot like today. Inflation

121
00:07:01,440 --> 00:07:03,840
Speaker 2: was going through the roof and gas prices we used

122
00:07:03,880 --> 00:07:06,000
Speaker 2: to we used to have to wait in line. It

123
00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:08,839
Speaker 2: was odd days and even days to buy gasoline. And

124
00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,240
Speaker 2: my dad had this huge station wagon was the country

125
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,119
Speaker 2: square with like wood on the sides, and we wait.

126
00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:16,080
Speaker 2: We had to wait for forty five minutes to fill

127
00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,880
Speaker 2: the gas tank. And we had desert one where we

128
00:07:17,960 --> 00:07:21,360
Speaker 2: lost a bunch of servicemen trying to rescue our hostages

129
00:07:21,360 --> 00:07:24,080
Speaker 2: from Iran. It was it was a travesty, and most

130
00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:27,080
Speaker 2: Americans thought that the country was head in the wrong direction,

131
00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:30,520
Speaker 2: just like now most Americans eighty percent of Americans think

132
00:07:30,560 --> 00:07:32,960
Speaker 2: the countries head in the wrong direction. Economically, thirty one

133
00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 2: trillion dollars of debt, forty or high in inflation, set

134
00:07:35,960 --> 00:07:40,280
Speaker 2: in all crisis, open borders, China challenging us. And so

135
00:07:40,640 --> 00:07:42,920
Speaker 2: just like we did it then with the with the

136
00:07:42,960 --> 00:07:46,560
Speaker 2: rebirth of America under Ronald Reagan, we can do it now.

137
00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:51,120
Speaker 2: Different problems, different problems, different solutions, but the same issue.

138
00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,400
Speaker 2: We need. We need leadership. And if you think about Pennsylvania,

139
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,400
Speaker 2: but you think about twenty twenty two, you know, listen,

140
00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,480
Speaker 2: we had two problems in my opinion, but they answer

141
00:08:01,480 --> 00:08:04,600
Speaker 2: your broader question. The first problem is we need candidates

142
00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:07,720
Speaker 2: who can win primaries and win general elections, right, it's

143
00:08:07,840 --> 00:08:12,080
Speaker 2: about It's about building a coalition of people who want

144
00:08:12,120 --> 00:08:13,640
Speaker 2: to change the direction of the country. But you can't

145
00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:16,520
Speaker 2: change the direction of the country without ideas. So we

146
00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,320
Speaker 2: need ideas, and we need leaders who can win, and

147
00:08:20,320 --> 00:08:23,440
Speaker 2: then we need leadership when they get there. And that's

148
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:26,400
Speaker 2: what this book is about. Here's an agenda, but an

149
00:08:26,440 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 2: agenda of ideas doesn't mean any think. If you can't

150
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,320
Speaker 2: get people, you can't get people to lead. And I

151
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:34,280
Speaker 2: try to talk about that, as you say in the book,

152
00:08:34,320 --> 00:08:36,520
Speaker 2: but I don't talk about someone who is like mister leadership,

153
00:08:36,520 --> 00:08:39,240
Speaker 2: I got all the answers. I talk about someone who's

154
00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:43,040
Speaker 2: been in lots of leadership positions and failed. So you know,

155
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:44,360
Speaker 2: you and I have talked about this, but I talk

156
00:08:44,360 --> 00:08:47,480
Speaker 2: about being fired as the CEO of Bridgewater. That was

157
00:08:47,480 --> 00:08:50,800
Speaker 2: pretty hard, you know. I talk about struggling in the army,

158
00:08:51,080 --> 00:08:55,439
Speaker 2: and then I talk about of succeeding, but succeeding because

159
00:08:55,480 --> 00:08:59,400
Speaker 2: of the experiences, the humility, the lessons that come with failure.

160
00:08:59,440 --> 00:09:02,439
Speaker 2: And so I try it's kind of an open discussion

161
00:09:02,480 --> 00:09:05,000
Speaker 2: about what it takes to win and to leave.

162
00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,240
Speaker 1: Well, so Dave to talk to me about that, because

163
00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:12,160
Speaker 1: that was something that that struck me as very very compelling,

164
00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:14,120
Speaker 1: just in your book, but also in your bio. I

165
00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:15,520
Speaker 1: think I read a piece in the post is that

166
00:09:15,559 --> 00:09:18,880
Speaker 1: about you that talked about being fired from Bridgewater? I

167
00:09:18,960 --> 00:09:22,080
Speaker 1: think you you were, You were promoted the CEO, and

168
00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:24,120
Speaker 1: then you were fired, and then you eventually you rose

169
00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:25,400
Speaker 1: to CEO again. Right?

170
00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:26,360
Speaker 2: Yeah?

171
00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:30,160
Speaker 1: How I mean, give give me a window into your

172
00:09:30,160 --> 00:09:33,760
Speaker 1: mind in that moment, like you're told to step down

173
00:09:34,160 --> 00:09:36,840
Speaker 1: or they're firing you from being CEO. You could have

174
00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,760
Speaker 1: taken your ball and went home. In fact, I bet

175
00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:43,040
Speaker 1: you there's a lot of Americans that would have said

176
00:09:43,040 --> 00:09:46,800
Speaker 1: the heck with this and done just that. But what

177
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:49,880
Speaker 1: where were you on that? How did you how did

178
00:09:49,880 --> 00:09:52,760
Speaker 1: you process that, how did you talk about it with

179
00:09:52,840 --> 00:09:56,480
Speaker 1: your family? And ultimately how did you end up staying

180
00:09:56,480 --> 00:09:58,600
Speaker 1: the course to rise back up to become CEO of

181
00:09:58,640 --> 00:09:59,439
Speaker 1: that company again?

182
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:02,720
Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, it's uh, you know, it's I think the

183
00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:05,839
Speaker 2: context is you people described my career and they go, oh,

184
00:10:05,880 --> 00:10:08,640
Speaker 2: you know, this success and that success, and they describe

185
00:10:08,679 --> 00:10:12,240
Speaker 2: it like this straight line where things just always went up.

186
00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:15,040
Speaker 2: And what wasn't true. There was lots of struggles along

187
00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:17,000
Speaker 2: the way. So I talked. You know, I was a

188
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:19,040
Speaker 2: you know, I was ended up being an All state

189
00:10:19,120 --> 00:10:21,920
Speaker 2: linebacker and I got recrud to play football West. But

190
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,520
Speaker 2: but I but I started as a benchwarmer. Uh and uh,

191
00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:28,880
Speaker 2: you know I struggled. Uh. I failed some things in

192
00:10:28,920 --> 00:10:31,720
Speaker 2: the army, and yet I was a very successful army officer.

193
00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:34,640
Speaker 2: So and there was lots of years that you know,

194
00:10:34,679 --> 00:10:36,200
Speaker 2: my dad and my brother used to get on the

195
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,440
Speaker 2: phone Sunday nights, and you know, I left the army.

196
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:40,640
Speaker 2: My dad was like, well, you're gonna lose your retirement.

197
00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,439
Speaker 2: What do you doing fifteen more years? You every retirement?

198
00:10:43,480 --> 00:10:45,240
Speaker 2: And then I went to graduate school and I was

199
00:10:45,240 --> 00:10:48,400
Speaker 2: going to be a professor, and I I decided not

200
00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:49,920
Speaker 2: to be a professor. So my dad will get it

201
00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:51,960
Speaker 2: on a phone Sunday night with my brother and say

202
00:10:53,120 --> 00:10:55,200
Speaker 2: what I'm gonna do about date? He doesn't, you know,

203
00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,480
Speaker 2: he doesn't. He's not clear on his future. You know

204
00:10:58,520 --> 00:11:01,240
Speaker 2: what it was. It wasn't util I was like thirty

205
00:11:01,240 --> 00:11:03,079
Speaker 2: five or maybe forty. My dad said, I think it's

206
00:11:03,080 --> 00:11:06,360
Speaker 2: going to be okay. So so it was it wasn't

207
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:08,160
Speaker 2: like I had come into it, Ranger school, all these

208
00:11:08,160 --> 00:11:10,760
Speaker 2: things I'd come into it knowing that the path of

209
00:11:10,880 --> 00:11:14,520
Speaker 2: success is often through failure. But then when it happens

210
00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:18,079
Speaker 2: to you, you have to have this fight with yourself,

211
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:21,760
Speaker 2: the emotion of saying, oh, you know, so unfair. You

212
00:11:21,760 --> 00:11:24,319
Speaker 2: know I didn't you know, it's I don't want to

213
00:11:24,320 --> 00:11:27,240
Speaker 2: be treated that way, and your mind that says, okay,

214
00:11:27,360 --> 00:11:30,880
Speaker 2: there's probably something to be learned from this. And that's

215
00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,760
Speaker 2: what happened with me where the guy who ran the firm,

216
00:11:33,840 --> 00:11:36,840
Speaker 2: Ray Dalio, put me in the CEO job and he said,

217
00:11:37,440 --> 00:11:39,880
Speaker 2: you know, listen, eighteen months in because you're not making

218
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:43,679
Speaker 2: change happen fast enough. And my first reaction was to

219
00:11:43,679 --> 00:11:45,319
Speaker 2: do just as you said, which is okay, well I'll

220
00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:48,040
Speaker 2: go I'll take my talent somewhere else. And I thought

221
00:11:48,040 --> 00:11:50,360
Speaker 2: about that, thought hard about it. We had some family

222
00:11:50,360 --> 00:11:52,000
Speaker 2: issues going on that I didn't want to move my kids,

223
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:53,760
Speaker 2: and I said, you know, I'm going to stick it out.

224
00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,360
Speaker 2: And I stuck it out for a year and then

225
00:11:56,400 --> 00:11:58,320
Speaker 2: things started to go well. And some of the feedback

226
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,280
Speaker 2: I had received was I was and changing things quickly enough,

227
00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,400
Speaker 2: you know, I wasn't balancing all the advice from different people.

228
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:08,000
Speaker 2: And I started to really get my groove and I

229
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:10,520
Speaker 2: started to really succeed and I became the president of

230
00:12:10,559 --> 00:12:13,199
Speaker 2: the firm and I was really, you know, helping our

231
00:12:13,280 --> 00:12:15,680
Speaker 2: firm grow and be successful. And then about five years

232
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,000
Speaker 2: later I was happy and Ray came to me and said,

233
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,520
Speaker 2: I'd like you, you know. And by the way, he still

234
00:12:20,520 --> 00:12:22,360
Speaker 2: didn't agree with him firing me. I thought the way

235
00:12:22,400 --> 00:12:24,680
Speaker 2: he handled it, the way he handled it wasn't right,

236
00:12:24,760 --> 00:12:28,360
Speaker 2: but there was definitely lessons for me in it, and

237
00:12:28,520 --> 00:12:30,000
Speaker 2: he asked me to be CEO again. I said, ye,

238
00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,679
Speaker 2: I don't think so. You know, it's I'm doing fine

239
00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:35,760
Speaker 2: and things are going well. And he said, what would

240
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,240
Speaker 2: it take. And we talked about what it would take

241
00:12:38,280 --> 00:12:41,160
Speaker 2: in terms of him stepping back, giving me the freedom

242
00:12:41,200 --> 00:12:43,600
Speaker 2: to make the decisions I needed, the lessons I had learned,

243
00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:45,760
Speaker 2: and we went forward on it, and I became CEO

244
00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:47,880
Speaker 2: for the next six years and it worked out really,

245
00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:52,440
Speaker 2: really well. But honestly, in retrospect, it was a gift

246
00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:55,800
Speaker 2: because I was a better leader because of it, the

247
00:12:55,840 --> 00:12:57,280
Speaker 2: things he was pointing out, So I didn't think he

248
00:12:57,280 --> 00:12:59,599
Speaker 2: should have fired me, but they were right. There was

249
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:01,880
Speaker 2: lessons there, and you know what has happened shot, I

250
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,680
Speaker 2: am so much better dealing with people that are struggling now,

251
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:09,079
Speaker 2: even the people I've had to fire myself since then,

252
00:13:09,120 --> 00:13:11,199
Speaker 2: I've had to fire people that weren't succeeding. That's part

253
00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,559
Speaker 2: of being a good leader, is helping people move out

254
00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 2: of jobs where they can't succeed. I'm so much better

255
00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:20,120
Speaker 2: at doing that now. So I wouldn't trade it. But man,

256
00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:22,000
Speaker 2: did it hurt At the time. Was in the newspaper,

257
00:13:22,000 --> 00:13:25,640
Speaker 2: front page of the Wall Street Journal. This isn't fun.

258
00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:29,360
Speaker 2: So Selena Zito asked me this the other day. She said, so, so,

259
00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:30,839
Speaker 2: you know, when you're on the front page of the

260
00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:32,920
Speaker 2: Wall Street Journal or the New York Times about losing

261
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:35,880
Speaker 2: the Senate race, does that bring back some parallels? And

262
00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:39,120
Speaker 2: you know it does in the following sense. When one

263
00:13:39,160 --> 00:13:42,680
Speaker 2: door closes, another door opens, and you know, failure is

264
00:13:42,720 --> 00:13:44,920
Speaker 2: part of life and failure is part of succeeding.

265
00:13:45,320 --> 00:13:48,440
Speaker 1: I mean, when did you learn that lesson, Dave? Because

266
00:13:48,480 --> 00:13:51,160
Speaker 1: it seems like, as you talk about your path and

267
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,280
Speaker 1: where you are today and really living and realizing the

268
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,200
Speaker 1: American dream, that it wasn't a straight path at all.

269
00:13:57,280 --> 00:13:59,760
Speaker 1: On the way, there were pit palls and there were failures,

270
00:14:00,080 --> 00:14:01,640
Speaker 1: and it seems like what I'm hearing from you is

271
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,120
Speaker 1: that you know your life is and the same is

272
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:06,720
Speaker 1: true for me. Really is it's filled with failures. But

273
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,480
Speaker 1: I think what it boils down to is are you

274
00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:12,079
Speaker 1: learning lessons from those things when you fall down? Are

275
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,200
Speaker 1: you picking something up when you stand back up and

276
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 1: move out and you know, move out and draw fire,

277
00:14:18,840 --> 00:14:21,000
Speaker 1: Like you went to West Point when you in nineteen

278
00:14:21,040 --> 00:14:23,680
Speaker 1: eighty three, right, do I have that right? In nineteen

279
00:14:23,680 --> 00:14:27,200
Speaker 1: eighty three, that's right. I was two.

280
00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:29,920
Speaker 2: I knew you were going to bring that up.

281
00:14:30,240 --> 00:14:32,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I had to. I had to. I had to.

282
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:36,160
Speaker 1: I was too. But like I've toured West Point since,

283
00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:38,840
Speaker 1: you know, I was an r OTC guy, and I'll

284
00:14:38,840 --> 00:14:41,800
Speaker 1: tell you I having you know, out alputuna as they

285
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:43,640
Speaker 1: think on the curriculum now at West Point, which is

286
00:14:43,680 --> 00:14:45,400
Speaker 1: just an honor of a lifetime. But I will go

287
00:14:45,440 --> 00:14:47,640
Speaker 1: there and talk to the cadets and do leadership seminars

288
00:14:47,680 --> 00:14:49,720
Speaker 1: small groups with them. And one of the things that

289
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:53,040
Speaker 1: I realized very quickly was that there is there's no

290
00:14:53,120 --> 00:14:56,160
Speaker 1: way I could do it. Those kids are up at

291
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:58,520
Speaker 1: like four in the morning. Their whole day is structured,

292
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:01,520
Speaker 1: you know, structured stuff time all the way into the night,

293
00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:04,080
Speaker 1: and I think to myself like, not only is there

294
00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:05,920
Speaker 1: no way that I could do it, but these kids

295
00:15:05,920 --> 00:15:10,280
Speaker 1: are are special but also seemed to be gluttons for

296
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,200
Speaker 1: punishment like you were. You were a wrestler prior to that,

297
00:15:13,280 --> 00:15:15,320
Speaker 1: and I and and to wrestle, you have to be

298
00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,720
Speaker 1: a glutton for punishment as well. Because I wrestled it

299
00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:23,000
Speaker 1: and it was really, really, really difficult. But was there

300
00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,600
Speaker 1: a moment when you got to West Point? Well, I guess,

301
00:15:25,600 --> 00:15:27,320
Speaker 1: first of all, how did you make the decision to

302
00:15:27,360 --> 00:15:30,400
Speaker 1: go there? And a number one? And the second part

303
00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,920
Speaker 1: of the question was was there a moment, like maybe

304
00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,280
Speaker 1: it's on your first or second day where you thought

305
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:37,720
Speaker 1: to yourself, I immediately regret this decision.

306
00:15:38,680 --> 00:15:41,440
Speaker 2: Oh, lots of regrets, lots of regrets. And still to

307
00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:43,880
Speaker 2: this moment, I say, the best the best view of

308
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:46,520
Speaker 2: West Point is in the rear view mirror when you're

309
00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,800
Speaker 2: going up over the mountain on lead for the weekend

310
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:50,880
Speaker 2: and back and saying who I got from Friday till

311
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:54,720
Speaker 2: Sunday morning or Sunday afternoon? Yeah, listen, I it was

312
00:15:54,760 --> 00:15:57,440
Speaker 2: the greatest decision I ever made, and I almost didn't

313
00:15:57,440 --> 00:16:00,560
Speaker 2: make it. And the way it happened was you know,

314
00:16:00,600 --> 00:16:03,480
Speaker 2: I'm like every Pennsylvania kid. I wanted to play football

315
00:16:03,480 --> 00:16:07,720
Speaker 2: Penn State. Yeah, I had. I had visions of playing

316
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:09,920
Speaker 2: football Penn State and uh and if I was going

317
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,520
Speaker 2: to wrestle, I wanted to wrestle Lehigh. So the two

318
00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:14,320
Speaker 2: places I have, and Lehigh at the time was.

319
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:17,120
Speaker 1: A dominant absolutely right, yeah, actually.

320
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,080
Speaker 2: Top five in the country and so, uh so I

321
00:16:20,160 --> 00:16:21,600
Speaker 2: was that was what I was hoping for. And I

322
00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,880
Speaker 2: was applying to both places, and I got recruited to

323
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:28,200
Speaker 2: wrestle and play football west Point, and uh so I

324
00:16:28,240 --> 00:16:29,920
Speaker 2: went up for a visit, and you know, I just

325
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:31,440
Speaker 2: saw the same thing you said. You know, I said,

326
00:16:31,480 --> 00:16:33,800
Speaker 2: I just don't think this is for me. You know,

327
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:38,840
Speaker 2: I was looking for a little less monastic uh four years.

328
00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:40,040
Speaker 2: I wanted to have more of it.

329
00:16:40,240 --> 00:16:41,960
Speaker 1: That's what That's what it's like. I mean, that's what

330
00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:42,520
Speaker 1: it's like.

331
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:47,360
Speaker 2: Well, there's actually, uh there's actually across the across the river,

332
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:53,840
Speaker 2: there's a there's a uh An institution where they trained monks,

333
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:56,080
Speaker 2: and so, you know, we used to say there's a

334
00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,320
Speaker 2: lot of similarities because once you went to West Point,

335
00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:00,360
Speaker 2: you were locked up there for for for years for

336
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,320
Speaker 2: the most part. And the joke was, you know, they

337
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:06,840
Speaker 2: give you your privileges back, you know, a day at

338
00:17:06,840 --> 00:17:08,480
Speaker 2: a time, a week at a time, and by the

339
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:11,560
Speaker 2: time you graduate, you have the privileges of any freshman

340
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:15,240
Speaker 2: in any other college in the country. But I started,

341
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:18,080
Speaker 2: my dad said, and you know, I really thank him

342
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:19,600
Speaker 2: for this. My dad said, you know, you have to

343
00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:22,040
Speaker 2: make a choice which is best for you. The only

344
00:17:22,080 --> 00:17:24,760
Speaker 2: thing I insist on is that you apply to West Point.

345
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:27,160
Speaker 2: And I said, okay, I'll apply. And so I applied.

346
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:30,160
Speaker 2: And I had no one in my family that had

347
00:17:30,160 --> 00:17:31,920
Speaker 2: military experience. I had an uncle that had been in

348
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:36,119
Speaker 2: World War One, so I had no connection. And I

349
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:39,480
Speaker 2: got in. To my shock, I got in amazing and

350
00:17:39,840 --> 00:17:42,320
Speaker 2: U and Sean. It took on a life of its own.

351
00:17:42,480 --> 00:17:44,600
Speaker 2: Someone sent me a newspaper art. It was in the

352
00:17:44,640 --> 00:17:47,080
Speaker 2: new It was in the local newspaper. You know, local

353
00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:48,800
Speaker 2: kid gets accepted at West Point. It was the first

354
00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,520
Speaker 2: time anybody had gone to an academy in decades. My

355
00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,560
Speaker 2: town was probably eight thousand people, and it took on

356
00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:56,320
Speaker 2: a life of his own. No one ever asked me,

357
00:17:56,359 --> 00:17:58,520
Speaker 2: are you going to go? It was like, of course,

358
00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:01,160
Speaker 2: you're going to go. This was you know, and it's

359
00:18:01,160 --> 00:18:03,560
Speaker 2: sort of just I just sort of settled into it

360
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:05,240
Speaker 2: and said, Okay, I'm going to do this. This is

361
00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,000
Speaker 2: a privilege and an honor. And I you know, I

362
00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,920
Speaker 2: did fine. I didn't love it most days, but uh,

363
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:13,880
Speaker 2: it taught me so much and I feel so blessed.

364
00:18:14,200 --> 00:18:16,480
Speaker 2: And then it opened up my life to you know,

365
00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:18,439
Speaker 2: a career that I would have never had otherwise. So

366
00:18:18,880 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 2: but that's how that's how it happened. And the military,

367
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:23,760
Speaker 2: and you know this, Sean, I admire you so much

368
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:26,879
Speaker 2: for it. But the thing is when you you know,

369
00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:30,760
Speaker 2: are in business and we're even government, and you're in

370
00:18:30,880 --> 00:18:33,280
Speaker 2: you know, you're in Washington or you're in you know,

371
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:36,320
Speaker 2: these business circles and you ask how many people in

372
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,919
Speaker 2: that room have served in the military. Very few people,

373
00:18:39,800 --> 00:18:44,040
Speaker 2: very few people in the accel a corridor between Washington

374
00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:46,560
Speaker 2: and New York have ever served in or even know

375
00:18:46,680 --> 00:18:49,000
Speaker 2: someone who has served in the military. And when I'm

376
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:50,439
Speaker 2: you know, where I grew up, or if I'm on

377
00:18:50,440 --> 00:18:53,400
Speaker 2: the campaign trail in Pennsylvania, everywhere I go, I said,

378
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,399
Speaker 2: who's been in the military, who hasn't It's you know,

379
00:18:56,480 --> 00:19:00,760
Speaker 2: this is a big part of connecting, uh, and understanding

380
00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,080
Speaker 2: what it is to be an American, and so I

381
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,440
Speaker 2: feel so blessed with it. And you know, I was

382
00:19:05,480 --> 00:19:09,560
Speaker 2: a small town kid from Pennsylvania. My first platoon had

383
00:19:09,600 --> 00:19:13,840
Speaker 2: a you know, a white kid from from rural Alabama.

384
00:19:13,960 --> 00:19:17,080
Speaker 2: It had an African American kid from Nork. It had

385
00:19:17,119 --> 00:19:19,680
Speaker 2: a my platoon sergeant, as you know, for a new lieutenant,

386
00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,520
Speaker 2: producerdant is everything. He was a Puerto Rican guy who

387
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,879
Speaker 2: you know, was thirty five and he seemed like a

388
00:19:25,960 --> 00:19:26,720
Speaker 2: hundred years.

389
00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:27,200
Speaker 1: Old at the time.

390
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 2: You know, I was twenty two, and you know, you

391
00:19:30,119 --> 00:19:31,960
Speaker 2: know what, and this is the I'll end on this

392
00:19:31,960 --> 00:19:34,680
Speaker 2: point because I know I'm riffing, But no, I don't

393
00:19:34,720 --> 00:19:36,800
Speaker 2: remember in my five years in the Army, my four

394
00:19:36,880 --> 00:19:38,960
Speaker 2: years of West Point, I don't remember. I don't even

395
00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:40,800
Speaker 2: think I knew who was a Republican or who was

396
00:19:40,840 --> 00:19:43,600
Speaker 2: a Democrat, or who was a conservative. You know, it

397
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,160
Speaker 2: was just about our country and being part of a team.

398
00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,080
Speaker 2: And by the end, you would have you know, you

399
00:19:48,119 --> 00:19:51,439
Speaker 2: would have gone into and did go into fire to

400
00:19:51,560 --> 00:19:53,720
Speaker 2: protect that kid in your right or your left. You didn't.

401
00:19:53,760 --> 00:19:55,600
Speaker 2: You didn't know anything about him other than they were

402
00:19:55,640 --> 00:19:57,480
Speaker 2: part of that team and we were all committed to

403
00:19:58,119 --> 00:20:00,639
Speaker 2: the mission and one another. And that that's the thing

404
00:20:00,680 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 2: that I got out of West Point in the military,

405
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:05,760
Speaker 2: that is the It's the gift of a lifetime, and

406
00:20:05,800 --> 00:20:06,879
Speaker 2: I would would never trade.

407
00:20:07,119 --> 00:20:09,040
Speaker 1: I mean, I think you're I think it's so powerful

408
00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:11,160
Speaker 1: because that's what I took as well from my experience

409
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,399
Speaker 1: in the military, Dave, and that and I think, you know,

410
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:17,400
Speaker 1: we talk about the virtues of diversity, and I mean

411
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,720
Speaker 1: every business in the world talks about it now and

412
00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:22,200
Speaker 1: how that's one of our greatest strengths as a country.

413
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,439
Speaker 1: And I agree, but I also say that that's just

414
00:20:25,520 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 1: part of the answer. I think what makes America truly exceptional,

415
00:20:29,280 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 1: and I saw that exceptional nature reflected in the eyes

416
00:20:32,160 --> 00:20:35,239
Speaker 1: of my troops on the battlefield, is that it was

417
00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,479
Speaker 1: really not just how diverse Michaeltoon was, because we had

418
00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:40,600
Speaker 1: guys from everywhere. As you said, it sounds like you

419
00:20:40,640 --> 00:20:44,199
Speaker 1: had a similar experience, but it was the fact that

420
00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,960
Speaker 1: we were able to, as Americans, look past all of

421
00:20:48,000 --> 00:20:52,360
Speaker 1: our many differences and unite behind a common mission. And

422
00:20:53,320 --> 00:20:56,320
Speaker 1: that has been I think for me anyway, Dave, has

423
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,360
Speaker 1: been I mean, really the foundation of what it means

424
00:20:59,440 --> 00:21:01,800
Speaker 1: to be a servant leader, and that leaders focus on

425
00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:05,760
Speaker 1: first last and always doing everything that we can to

426
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:08,000
Speaker 1: bring people together, regardless of where we come from. It

427
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 1: doesn't mean we always get it right.

428
00:21:10,520 --> 00:21:12,080
Speaker 2: Yeah, I agree with that.

429
00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:15,240
Speaker 1: But do you think that that because clearly that's shaped

430
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:18,040
Speaker 1: who you've become, Dave, and and so much about your

431
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,800
Speaker 1: experience at West Point, and then leading men in combat,

432
00:21:20,840 --> 00:21:23,560
Speaker 1: and and and being a platoon leader. And you found

433
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,160
Speaker 1: you find yourself the CEO of one of the largest

434
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,800
Speaker 1: firmed hedge funds in the world, but you also founded

435
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 1: companies here in western Pennsylvania and Pittsburgh free Markets, right,

436
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:35,360
Speaker 1: And I didn't.

437
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:36,840
Speaker 2: Found it, but I was. I was one of their Yeah,

438
00:21:36,840 --> 00:21:37,920
Speaker 2: I was the CEO of it. Yeah.

439
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, so one of you were. You were the

440
00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 1: leader of that company essentially and eventually Yeah. I mean,

441
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:47,520
Speaker 1: how does do you how does the perspective that you

442
00:21:47,640 --> 00:21:51,560
Speaker 1: had from the military, from from West Point, from your

443
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,800
Speaker 1: time in the army, how did that shape your perspective

444
00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:56,399
Speaker 1: as as a business leader?

445
00:21:57,560 --> 00:22:00,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, listen, I mean it was it was that

446
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:03,919
Speaker 2: it was the foundation because you learn the basic things

447
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:07,520
Speaker 2: about caring for people. But then I learned those various

448
00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:09,919
Speaker 2: lessons over and over again and in the book I

449
00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:12,280
Speaker 2: talk about, you know, there's so many things written on leadership,

450
00:22:12,280 --> 00:22:14,359
Speaker 2: and I said, you know, there's despite all this written

451
00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,000
Speaker 2: about leadership, it's kind of ambiguous. If you ask ten

452
00:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 2: people what leadership is, they'd have different definitions, you know.

453
00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:25,000
Speaker 2: And so I talked about four things that for me

454
00:22:25,760 --> 00:22:29,040
Speaker 2: have defined the leaders I've most admired and I think

455
00:22:29,080 --> 00:22:31,600
Speaker 2: are core to the being the kind of leader I

456
00:22:31,640 --> 00:22:35,159
Speaker 2: think American needs, but but we need in general. And

457
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:37,760
Speaker 2: the one was visioned. You know, you need to know

458
00:22:37,800 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 2: where your leaders need to be able to take people

459
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:42,440
Speaker 2: where where they need to go. So in other words,

460
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:43,960
Speaker 2: you have you need to have a sense, whether it's

461
00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:46,960
Speaker 2: your patun into a mission, or whether it's a company

462
00:22:47,720 --> 00:22:51,280
Speaker 2: into a changing marketplace, or whether it's America into you know,

463
00:22:51,320 --> 00:22:55,560
Speaker 2: a very dynamic, chaotic world. So that's obvious. But you

464
00:22:55,600 --> 00:22:58,480
Speaker 2: need courage too. And courage isn't the kind of courage

465
00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 2: that you particularly demonstrate on the battlefield and your patuone,

466
00:23:02,560 --> 00:23:05,040
Speaker 2: I mean that is the courage when we think of courage.

467
00:23:05,040 --> 00:23:08,040
Speaker 2: But there's courage to make hard choices. There's courage to

468
00:23:08,080 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 2: be true to yourself, there's courage to speak truth to power,

469
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,760
Speaker 2: even though that may in some instances result in and

470
00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,760
Speaker 2: you losing losing an election, or losing your job or

471
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,680
Speaker 2: whatever it is. So courage is I think a second part,

472
00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,880
Speaker 2: and in the end, people want to know that their

473
00:23:26,960 --> 00:23:30,600
Speaker 2: leaders are going to stand and put themselves in personal peril.

474
00:23:31,320 --> 00:23:35,080
Speaker 2: The third thing we sort of talked about was the

475
00:23:35,880 --> 00:23:41,119
Speaker 2: notion of humility. So the leadership I think requires you

476
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:42,719
Speaker 2: to know that you don't have all the answers and

477
00:23:42,760 --> 00:23:46,879
Speaker 2: you're drawing on others. But humility also gives the capacity

478
00:23:46,920 --> 00:23:50,320
Speaker 2: to fail and learn from it and then evolve and grow,

479
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,239
Speaker 2: because if you have humility, you know you're fallible and

480
00:23:54,280 --> 00:23:56,240
Speaker 2: you know you're going to make mistakes, and being mistakes

481
00:23:56,280 --> 00:23:57,560
Speaker 2: is part of being good leader, as long as you

482
00:23:57,600 --> 00:24:00,560
Speaker 2: own the mistakes, confront them, and learn as result of it.

483
00:24:01,280 --> 00:24:02,760
Speaker 2: And then the fourth thing, which is the one I

484
00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:07,240
Speaker 2: think we learned in the military, is about servant leadership, caring.

485
00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,639
Speaker 2: You got to care about people. Leadership is not about you.

486
00:24:10,720 --> 00:24:13,360
Speaker 2: And I tell that story which is for any military

487
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:16,760
Speaker 2: person is such an obvious story, but for for lots

488
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,639
Speaker 2: of people it's not. Which is, when you're done with

489
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,959
Speaker 2: a long road march, you know and you're out in

490
00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,920
Speaker 2: the field, you stop and everybody's you check everace feet

491
00:24:24,920 --> 00:24:27,960
Speaker 2: for blisters, because if you get a blister, it gets infected.

492
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,960
Speaker 2: As you know, you're you're stuck. And I just told

493
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 2: the story of how my platoon sergeant and I would

494
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:36,880
Speaker 2: always do that for everybody in the platoon or the

495
00:24:36,920 --> 00:24:39,080
Speaker 2: squad leaders would do that and we would double check

496
00:24:39,119 --> 00:24:42,120
Speaker 2: it before we would sit down and have take off

497
00:24:42,119 --> 00:24:44,360
Speaker 2: our boots and change our socks and check for blisters.

498
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,920
Speaker 2: Or you know in the mess hall, you know who

499
00:24:47,960 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 2: goes first. The platoon leader doesn't go first. It's the

500
00:24:51,320 --> 00:24:53,000
Speaker 2: troops that go first, and then the patuon leader in

501
00:24:53,000 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 2: the start come less Those things seem so basic to

502
00:24:56,040 --> 00:24:59,040
Speaker 2: you and to me, but they're not basic. They're not

503
00:24:59,160 --> 00:25:03,400
Speaker 2: basic in in much of society, leaders eat last. It's

504
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:06,000
Speaker 2: not about you, it's about others. And that's you know,

505
00:25:06,119 --> 00:25:09,119
Speaker 2: to answer your question in aroundabout way, that's the lesson

506
00:25:09,119 --> 00:25:12,000
Speaker 2: from the military that I took most to heart, and

507
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,840
Speaker 2: I've tried to not not perfectly, but I've tried to

508
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:17,840
Speaker 2: always be an example of that in my leadership.

509
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:20,879
Speaker 1: Well you know what's fascinating about that, Dave, And by

510
00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:24,879
Speaker 1: the way, I completely agree, but boy, you got your

511
00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:26,679
Speaker 1: work cut out for in you in Washington when you

512
00:25:26,720 --> 00:25:31,720
Speaker 1: get there, because there are a lot of people, a

513
00:25:31,720 --> 00:25:35,639
Speaker 1: lot of people that don't think that that that that

514
00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,160
Speaker 1: put themselves first. And by the way, like when you're campaigning,

515
00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,399
Speaker 1: like of course, like you're the guy that's on the ticket.

516
00:25:40,560 --> 00:25:42,800
Speaker 1: You know, you're telling your story, you're trying to sell

517
00:25:42,840 --> 00:25:46,679
Speaker 1: yourself and sway voters. So I understand that, but it

518
00:25:46,720 --> 00:25:48,520
Speaker 1: is it's a tough time to be in and be

519
00:25:48,640 --> 00:25:52,280
Speaker 1: and be a servant leader. Are you afraid that when

520
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,159
Speaker 1: you get down there? Because I believe it's just a

521
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,920
Speaker 1: matter of when, Dave, But when when you get down there,

522
00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:00,639
Speaker 1: you think you're gonna be able to hold on to that,

523
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:02,719
Speaker 1: you think you'll let that town change you.

524
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,680
Speaker 2: Well, you know, listen, I I I hope that if

525
00:26:07,680 --> 00:26:12,119
Speaker 2: I ever go to Washington in some whatever capacity it is,

526
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,879
Speaker 2: I hope that I'm far enough along in my life

527
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 2: to be able to lean on the lessons and the

528
00:26:18,600 --> 00:26:21,320
Speaker 2: principles and the values they kind of got me here.

529
00:26:21,359 --> 00:26:26,040
Speaker 2: And you know it, it comes with motivation, like what

530
00:26:26,040 --> 00:26:29,520
Speaker 2: what what is this all about? So in my last

531
00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,320
Speaker 2: you know, in my Senate run, I didn't wake up

532
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:34,919
Speaker 2: one morning and say, God, I'm never gonna I'm not

533
00:26:34,920 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 2: going to be fulfilled as a human if I don't,

534
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 2: if I don't become the Junior Center for Pennsylvania. I

535
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,200
Speaker 2: never occurred to me. I never had that as my goal,

536
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,119
Speaker 2: like being you know, that's in some ways it's it's

537
00:26:48,160 --> 00:26:52,000
Speaker 2: it's it's a tough job, as you're saying. It was

538
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:56,280
Speaker 2: never a goal. The goal was, Hey, the country is

539
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:59,840
Speaker 2: headed in the wrong direction, you know, And and I've

540
00:26:59,880 --> 00:27:02,960
Speaker 2: been blessed, you know, I've been privileged to have these

541
00:27:03,000 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: great experiences and to have lived a really blessed life.

542
00:27:07,240 --> 00:27:09,720
Speaker 2: Hey can I do something about that? So if your

543
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:12,600
Speaker 2: motivation is to do something about it, then I think

544
00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 2: it's hard to get captured by the whatever because you're

545
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 2: not going to be part of the whatever. You're going

546
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,520
Speaker 2: to change things. And if you can't change things, you

547
00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:23,040
Speaker 2: don't want to be there. And so that's how I

548
00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,800
Speaker 2: honestly believe it. And whether I could change things if

549
00:27:25,840 --> 00:27:28,879
Speaker 2: I got to Washington, would you know, I guess you

550
00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,960
Speaker 2: know what we'd have to see in any again, in

551
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,479
Speaker 2: any capacy, elected or appointed or whatever. But if you

552
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,640
Speaker 2: start with the idea that you know, America is special

553
00:27:38,000 --> 00:27:39,680
Speaker 2: and that we all have an obligation. You know, there's

554
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:42,240
Speaker 2: this great quote I talked in the book about William F. Buckley,

555
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,040
Speaker 2: who you and I both admire as a great conservative,

556
00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 2: but he talks about citizenship. Citizenship is a privilege. We

557
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:50,920
Speaker 2: all are blessed to be in part of this country.

558
00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,040
Speaker 2: But it's a responsibility. So like it's like the you know,

559
00:27:54,080 --> 00:27:57,919
Speaker 2: you run to the guns when when the country needs you,

560
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,520
Speaker 2: you try to do your part. And you know when

561
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:03,680
Speaker 2: I when I decide to run, and you've you've experienced

562
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,760
Speaker 2: this with your your own run. People say, why the

563
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,960
Speaker 2: hell would you ever put yourself in that? It's so

564
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:14,919
Speaker 2: nasty it is, And I I asked the simple question.

565
00:28:15,040 --> 00:28:18,040
Speaker 2: I said, well, if not us, not me, then that whom.

566
00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 2: If people that have been blessed and don't need the job,

567
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 2: you know, and and aren't looking at a is A

568
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,639
Speaker 2: is an opportunity for self or grandization. If people like

569
00:28:26,920 --> 00:28:30,160
Speaker 2: us don't consider it and do it, then who will.

570
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,520
Speaker 2: And so that's that's how I thought about it.

571
00:28:32,720 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 1: If good people don't run, bad people fill the vacuum,

572
00:28:35,359 --> 00:28:38,000
Speaker 1: and it's just about it, and we can't have that.

573
00:28:38,000 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: That's not good for the country. You talk about Dave,

574
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:45,200
Speaker 1: you know, courage being an important principle for leadership that

575
00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:49,880
Speaker 1: you've learned, and I totally agree with you. You know,

576
00:28:50,120 --> 00:28:52,720
Speaker 1: you know what else requires an immense amount of courage,

577
00:28:52,920 --> 00:28:57,200
Speaker 1: being married with all the daughters that you have. I saw,

578
00:28:57,440 --> 00:29:00,840
Speaker 1: like this was something that I think is remarkable. Is

579
00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: I saw this like Adina, who by the way, is

580
00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,480
Speaker 1: a force of nature, is your amazing wife. She I

581
00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: saw this thing on Instagram that she posted of you,

582
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:11,520
Speaker 1: like you all went to like a Harry Styles concert

583
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,920
Speaker 1: by the way, Like my kid, my girls love Harry

584
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,760
Speaker 1: Styles too. I don't really know who he is, but whatever,

585
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,520
Speaker 1: but she's posted this story on Instagram and it's just

586
00:29:20,560 --> 00:29:22,560
Speaker 1: her with a camera going from one girl to the

587
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:24,520
Speaker 1: next and how many how many girls you have? And

588
00:29:24,600 --> 00:29:28,520
Speaker 1: your yeah, okay, so yeah, a lot of courage required there.

589
00:29:28,680 --> 00:29:30,600
Speaker 1: But she's just going right down the line of all

590
00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: your daughters who are clearly having the times of their lives,

591
00:29:33,600 --> 00:29:36,440
Speaker 1: dancing like crazy, and it ends on you, and I'm

592
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:42,280
Speaker 1: like that that requires some real courage. You're just you're

593
00:29:42,320 --> 00:29:44,240
Speaker 1: just You're just standing there like a dad, just like.

594
00:29:45,160 --> 00:29:48,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, it reminds me we we had we got

595
00:29:48,880 --> 00:29:52,720
Speaker 2: a we get an initial puppy during COVID and then

596
00:29:52,920 --> 00:29:55,880
Speaker 2: like two years later, at its like craziness, we decided

597
00:29:55,880 --> 00:29:58,120
Speaker 2: to get a second puppy. And the look at my

598
00:29:58,280 --> 00:30:02,640
Speaker 2: faith with in that confer in that concert is like

599
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 2: the look of the of the first puppy when we

600
00:30:04,520 --> 00:30:08,280
Speaker 2: showed up with the second puppy, Like what are you thinking?

601
00:30:08,640 --> 00:30:09,920
Speaker 2: What do you think? Yeah?

602
00:30:10,040 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: I mean is that part of Is that part of it? Dave?

603
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,200
Speaker 1: You've got you've got six daughters, They're going to grow

604
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:16,120
Speaker 1: up in this country.

605
00:30:16,440 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

606
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:18,520
Speaker 1: Are you afraid for their future?

607
00:30:18,960 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 2: Yeah? Absolutely? And I'm afraid for their future. I'm afraid

608
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:27,880
Speaker 2: that we're headed down a dangerous path. And I'm afraid that,

609
00:30:28,160 --> 00:30:31,080
Speaker 2: you know, people who should be called to serve or

610
00:30:31,120 --> 00:30:34,560
Speaker 2: not are not serving for the reasons we've talked about.

611
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,360
Speaker 2: I understand the logic of people not doing it, but

612
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:39,640
Speaker 2: the way people asking what was it like? And again

613
00:30:39,640 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 2: I feel like I've talked to somebody who knows this.

614
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 2: But if you remember the movie Gladiator where Russell Crowe

615
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,560
Speaker 2: is in the middle of the arena and there's all

616
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,840
Speaker 2: these people, you know, cheering him, but there's also there's

617
00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:52,920
Speaker 2: people throwing things at him, and like, you know, so

618
00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:55,440
Speaker 2: you're in the arena, you're by yourself, and then you've

619
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 2: got your sword, and then all of a sudden the

620
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: trap door is up and there's a tiger, and so

621
00:30:59,480 --> 00:31:01,600
Speaker 2: they got to kill the tiger. Then the next thing,

622
00:31:01,600 --> 00:31:05,000
Speaker 2: you know, there's a chariot. And that's the way politics is.

623
00:31:05,120 --> 00:31:08,480
Speaker 2: You are in the arena, and you know it's it's

624
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 2: a privilege to me in the arena, but it's not.

625
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,520
Speaker 2: It's not for the fainter heart. And so I know

626
00:31:13,520 --> 00:31:15,680
Speaker 2: there's a burden, and I try to do everything I

627
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 2: can to make sure there's no burden on my family

628
00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:20,760
Speaker 2: or anything by making this choice. But I honestly think

629
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:23,160
Speaker 2: it's an honor to It was an honor in my

630
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 2: case to run, and I have no regrets about it

631
00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,280
Speaker 2: because I think good people need to do all they can.

632
00:31:30,080 --> 00:31:32,760
Speaker 1: Well, you know, you talk, I mean so much about

633
00:31:32,840 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: and then this book, like I told you, as like

634
00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:36,720
Speaker 1: as a blueprint, it's a way ahead for America, and

635
00:31:37,120 --> 00:31:41,840
Speaker 1: you talk about like a lot of very important, you know,

636
00:31:41,960 --> 00:31:45,200
Speaker 1: policy issues that are some of the greatest debates of

637
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,360
Speaker 1: our of our time, Dave, and in one of which

638
00:31:47,440 --> 00:31:51,400
Speaker 1: is the idea of you know, bringing jobs back to America.

639
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:55,720
Speaker 1: And keeping jobs here in America, building backer manufacturing base,

640
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:58,880
Speaker 1: in our industrial base, and that is very that is

641
00:31:58,920 --> 00:32:02,800
Speaker 1: a top issue in pencil, as you know. But the

642
00:32:02,880 --> 00:32:06,720
Speaker 1: idea that like free trade comes with a a lot

643
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:10,320
Speaker 1: of pretty amazing things like obviously we experience in this

644
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 1: country and economic boom because of free trade. I think

645
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:16,800
Speaker 1: it's made some fairly strong alliances with other nations geopolitically

646
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:20,360
Speaker 1: all across the world. But you talk in this book

647
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:23,600
Speaker 1: about walking the fine line and the importance of free trade,

648
00:32:23,600 --> 00:32:27,200
Speaker 1: but not at the expense of the American working man

649
00:32:27,280 --> 00:32:31,240
Speaker 1: and women. And that is so important that we embrace,

650
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:36,880
Speaker 1: I think, embrace free trade but also fair trade. How

651
00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,760
Speaker 1: how do you plan on taking that fight to Washington

652
00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: when you get there?

653
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:44,680
Speaker 2: Well, I think, you know, this is where I give

654
00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:47,720
Speaker 2: President Trump a lot of credit. I think he put

655
00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 2: his finger on that challenge, which is that the promise

656
00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:56,400
Speaker 2: of globalization or free trade hadn't you know, hadn't delivered

657
00:32:56,440 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 2: for a number of Americans. And I'm not talking a

658
00:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 2: small number. I'm talking half of America, right, yeah, yeah,

659
00:33:02,440 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 2: and so and then I think a similar cousin of

660
00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:11,600
Speaker 2: the problem of globalization is China. And you know, listen,

661
00:33:11,640 --> 00:33:13,640
Speaker 2: You could start with some basic things, which is there

662
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 2: was a there was a free trade ideology orthodoxy that

663
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:22,560
Speaker 2: was to an extreme and it missed some basic concepts.

664
00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,880
Speaker 2: So if anyone's questioning that, just ask yourself the question,

665
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:28,640
Speaker 2: how is it possible? We all saw this front and

666
00:33:28,680 --> 00:33:32,080
Speaker 2: center during COVID. How is it possible that the entire

667
00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 2: semiconductor industry is offshore and that ninety percent of the

668
00:33:35,760 --> 00:33:39,040
Speaker 2: semi conductors we need our manufactured ninety miles from may Man, China.

669
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 2: It's does anybody think that makes sense? Right on national security? Terms,

670
00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:50,120
Speaker 2: on economic you know, vitality for America, it makes no sense.

671
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,480
Speaker 2: Same with pharmaceuticals. I'd have to confess to you I

672
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:58,400
Speaker 2: did not know or understand until COVID happened how dependent

673
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 2: we were on China for pharmaceuticals. So you just have

674
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:05,840
Speaker 2: to pick examples like that, those aren't small examples to

675
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 2: just show how ridiculous the free trade orthodoxy had pushed

676
00:34:11,239 --> 00:34:13,759
Speaker 2: us down a path where we were making decisions as

677
00:34:13,760 --> 00:34:17,200
Speaker 2: a country that made absolutely no sense strategically. So that's

678
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:20,239
Speaker 2: the starting point. The second principle, which I think is

679
00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:24,440
Speaker 2: really critical. And again Bob Blitheiser, who was President Trump's

680
00:34:24,440 --> 00:34:28,120
Speaker 2: trade representative, I think is a notion of reciprocity. And

681
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: with the wto accession of China and our trade relations

682
00:34:32,400 --> 00:34:35,080
Speaker 2: that notion of reciprocity. You hear that we're thrown around,

683
00:34:35,080 --> 00:34:37,880
Speaker 2: but it's not happening in many of our trade relationships.

684
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:41,359
Speaker 2: Certainly with China, there's not reciprocity. And so if we're

685
00:34:41,360 --> 00:34:45,160
Speaker 2: going to give access to US Marcus in our trade relationships,

686
00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: we need to have fair opportunity in their market. So

687
00:34:47,440 --> 00:34:50,960
Speaker 2: that's the fade, and that's not happening. And then the

688
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,080
Speaker 2: third piece of the trade orthodoxy, which I think is

689
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:57,040
Speaker 2: called into questions. Listen, I'm not a fan. I'm not

690
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:01,080
Speaker 2: in favor of tariffs is a general rule, but I

691
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 2: think there are instances, and I think China in the

692
00:35:04,360 --> 00:35:06,680
Speaker 2: Trump administration was an example of where we can use

693
00:35:07,239 --> 00:35:10,239
Speaker 2: tariffs to sort of write the ship and rebalance trade

694
00:35:10,239 --> 00:35:15,040
Speaker 2: relations as a way to get geopolitical and negotiating advantage.

695
00:35:15,160 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 2: So those three things I just said are basic premises

696
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:22,640
Speaker 2: that are different than what the free trade orthodoxy has been.

697
00:35:22,680 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 2: And if we do those things differently and begin to

698
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,480
Speaker 2: strategically decouple from China and elsewhere, that's going to have

699
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:31,439
Speaker 2: a huge impact for manufacturing jobs in America. We can't

700
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 2: be non competitive, by the way. We have to still

701
00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:37,720
Speaker 2: be efficient, market driven businesses. So we can't subsidize things

702
00:35:37,760 --> 00:35:40,520
Speaker 2: like unfortunately the Biden administration is doing in so many ways.

703
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:43,719
Speaker 2: But we can ensure that the America worker gets a

704
00:35:43,719 --> 00:35:45,879
Speaker 2: fair shot. And if the America worker gets a fair shot,

705
00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:48,280
Speaker 2: they're going to win a lot more than they lose.

706
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 2: And that hasn't happened in the decades preceding twenty sixteen.

707
00:35:52,280 --> 00:35:54,279
Speaker 2: I think we're on a reset now, but it took

708
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,480
Speaker 2: a big took a big redirection that I think President

709
00:35:58,520 --> 00:36:00,720
Speaker 2: Trump tapped into very wisely.

710
00:36:01,080 --> 00:36:02,840
Speaker 1: I mean, I totally agree, and I mean there's so

711
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:06,440
Speaker 1: many aspects of this book that just dovetail perfectly from

712
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:10,040
Speaker 1: an economic and national security standpoint with Trump populism, Dave,

713
00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:15,320
Speaker 1: and really the blending of the blending of more traditional

714
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,000
Speaker 1: conservative positions with Trump populism. To plot a way ahead.

715
00:36:19,440 --> 00:36:21,600
Speaker 1: You talk about COVID, and you talk about all of

716
00:36:21,640 --> 00:36:24,719
Speaker 1: these things that COVID revealed and the risks that I

717
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:28,760
Speaker 1: think you know that our country was exposed to in China.

718
00:36:29,000 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: Talk about the economic implications of free trade arrangements, with China,

719
00:36:34,400 --> 00:36:37,520
Speaker 1: and maybe the fact that China is exploiting, definitely exploiting

720
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: that relationship. But from a national security standpoint, we have

721
00:36:41,640 --> 00:36:45,080
Speaker 1: critical aspects of our supply chain almost exclusively made in China.

722
00:36:45,120 --> 00:36:48,520
Speaker 1: You've got Apple computers making iPhones in China. You've got

723
00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:51,160
Speaker 1: rare earth metals and rare earth minerals being mined in

724
00:36:51,239 --> 00:36:55,400
Speaker 1: China by and large that are mostly through child slave labor.

725
00:36:55,640 --> 00:36:58,680
Speaker 1: In order for us to embrace the green energy, renewable

726
00:36:58,760 --> 00:37:02,880
Speaker 1: energy that the Bible administrations pushing so much, it almost

727
00:37:02,920 --> 00:37:05,719
Speaker 1: empowers China, what does empower China? Because most of that

728
00:37:05,760 --> 00:37:08,960
Speaker 1: stuff is mind over there. So from a national security standpoint, Dave,

729
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:14,160
Speaker 1: how how do we decouple from from China in that way?

730
00:37:14,239 --> 00:37:16,759
Speaker 1: Because I do think and you address it some in

731
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,000
Speaker 1: this book, but I do think that that has profound

732
00:37:19,160 --> 00:37:21,799
Speaker 1: national security implications for our country, not just now but

733
00:37:21,880 --> 00:37:22,959
Speaker 1: moving forward as well.

734
00:37:23,760 --> 00:37:25,960
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's a great question. I think it

735
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:27,920
Speaker 2: starts with the point I try to make in the

736
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:30,000
Speaker 2: in the in the book, and there's a chapter about

737
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:35,399
Speaker 2: technology leadership, and when you read What's going on with technology,

738
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:41,440
Speaker 2: it should scare you to death because technology and innovation

739
00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 2: have been what has made America the superpower in the world.

740
00:37:45,680 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 2: We've always been on the forefront of that. And our

741
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:52,879
Speaker 2: economic model is failing is failing us. And the best

742
00:37:52,880 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: example of how it's failing us is there's just a

743
00:37:55,680 --> 00:37:57,000
Speaker 2: report that came out I was in the Wall Street

744
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,719
Speaker 2: Journal a couple of weeks ago from an Australian thing,

745
00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:04,200
Speaker 2: and it identified forty four technologies that are critical to

746
00:38:04,280 --> 00:38:08,120
Speaker 2: the economic vitality but also the national security of a

747
00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,480
Speaker 2: country today. And of those forty four technologies, China is

748
00:38:12,480 --> 00:38:16,880
Speaker 2: in the league in thirty seven. This is satellite, artificial intelligence,

749
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 2: quantum science. And that's unacceptable. It is and the reason

750
00:38:23,200 --> 00:38:26,240
Speaker 2: is that we have not had a dedicated strategy. China

751
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:32,160
Speaker 2: has a plan for global dominance and for perpetuating a

752
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,160
Speaker 2: techno authoritarian model. They're very explicit in their plans. All

753
00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,320
Speaker 2: go back to the various congresses. You'll see technology leadership

754
00:38:40,320 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 2: and the East. And what's different now, Sean, is that

755
00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:49,080
Speaker 2: convergence of technology, economic wellbeing and national security is at

756
00:38:49,080 --> 00:38:52,040
Speaker 2: all new levels. Five G. You can't think of five

757
00:38:52,080 --> 00:38:55,640
Speaker 2: G without thinking about economic growth and national security at

758
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,759
Speaker 2: the same time. These technologies are one and the same

759
00:38:58,840 --> 00:39:02,759
Speaker 2: for economic success. And then mostly zero sum, so once

760
00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,920
Speaker 2: you get a predominant position, it's hard for other countries

761
00:39:05,920 --> 00:39:09,320
Speaker 2: to break in. So we need a plan for promoting

762
00:39:09,360 --> 00:39:12,600
Speaker 2: those technologies in a way that's not the Chinese model,

763
00:39:12,920 --> 00:39:16,480
Speaker 2: which is state owned enterprises. It's not the Democrats model,

764
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:20,200
Speaker 2: which is industrial policy with a bunch of of of

765
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:25,480
Speaker 2: directives around social engineering and PEG. Right, it's a it's

766
00:39:25,480 --> 00:39:30,800
Speaker 2: a it's an approach for innovation policy that that's driven

767
00:39:30,800 --> 00:39:35,319
Speaker 2: by free markets principles but helps direct capital to those

768
00:39:35,360 --> 00:39:37,879
Speaker 2: areas where we need to have big investment to win

769
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:39,920
Speaker 2: and uh, and we don't have a plan for that.

770
00:39:39,960 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 2: And that's what one of the things the book tries

771
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:44,560
Speaker 2: to do. And in it, you know, to your point

772
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 2: about traditional conservatism and and UH and populism, I'm trying

773
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:52,400
Speaker 2: to say, stop saying this or that. That's not the

774
00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:54,160
Speaker 2: way to think about it. You know, we're we're in

775
00:39:54,200 --> 00:39:56,800
Speaker 2: a new world where there's a set of realities we

776
00:39:56,880 --> 00:39:59,880
Speaker 2: have to embrace. And the anger people feel with the

777
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:03,279
Speaker 2: system leaving them behind, that's driving populism. Hey, by the way,

778
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,799
Speaker 2: they have a point, they have a right to be angry. Right,

779
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:08,200
Speaker 2: So there's that one sex you may recall, which says

780
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,359
Speaker 2: what would Milton Freeman think? And I talk about how

781
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,960
Speaker 2: Milton Freeman, who as you know, is the is the

782
00:40:14,239 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 2: is the dean of free market conservatism. Amazing, What would

783
00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:20,800
Speaker 2: Milton Freeman think about what I'm saying about these technology busses?

784
00:40:20,880 --> 00:40:22,520
Speaker 2: And I don't really know what Milton Freeman is say

785
00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 2: but my question of Milton Freeman is, when you're behind

786
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,880
Speaker 2: in thirty seven of forty four technologies, is going to

787
00:40:27,960 --> 00:40:30,839
Speaker 2: determine leadership in the world? What do you do? Right?

788
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:35,359
Speaker 2: So anyway, that's sorry, a long winded approach, but that's

789
00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 2: what I'm trying to do with the book.

790
00:40:36,760 --> 00:40:39,160
Speaker 1: Well, I mean as clear as day, and you talk

791
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: about speaking of technology, the idea of data, right, the

792
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:47,120
Speaker 1: data is almost like a currency today that's largely unregulated

793
00:40:47,120 --> 00:40:49,600
Speaker 1: here and untapped in our country. We don't really know

794
00:40:49,640 --> 00:40:52,000
Speaker 1: what to do with it. But China seems to have

795
00:40:52,040 --> 00:40:55,799
Speaker 1: a goal, at least a large scale global goal of

796
00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: sucking up as much as much American data as possible.

797
00:40:58,880 --> 00:41:01,200
Speaker 1: And I'm sure you saw the spy bay that basically

798
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:03,840
Speaker 1: floated from the West coast to the east coast and

799
00:41:03,920 --> 00:41:06,280
Speaker 1: wasn't shot down until it was over the Carolina somewhere

800
00:41:06,320 --> 00:41:09,440
Speaker 1: in the Atlantic Ocean. But the idea that that spy

801
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:11,640
Speaker 1: of the Chinese spy balloon was sucking up as much

802
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,359
Speaker 1: American data as humanly possible. The debate right now if

803
00:41:15,360 --> 00:41:18,160
Speaker 1: you turn on Fox News is and I think there's

804
00:41:18,160 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: a bill on the Senate floor about this day of

805
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:22,400
Speaker 1: about the should we ban TikTok or not? And I

806
00:41:22,400 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 1: think the Chinese spy balloon was pretty bad. But you

807
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:28,000
Speaker 1: got TikTok on your phone. It's basically like having a

808
00:41:28,040 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: spy balloon on every American phone of the entire country.

809
00:41:31,200 --> 00:41:34,919
Speaker 1: So how do we how do we? I mean, my god,

810
00:41:35,080 --> 00:41:37,400
Speaker 1: it just feels like we're, like you mentioned it, like

811
00:41:37,760 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 1: being behind the power curve here to China, and China

812
00:41:40,040 --> 00:41:41,560
Speaker 1: has a plan we don't.

813
00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:44,480
Speaker 2: Right, Well, listen, I said, there's a couple of different

814
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:48,640
Speaker 2: dimensions of this data. Data is so important because data

815
00:41:48,719 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 2: gives insight to others, and you make yourself vulnerable the

816
00:41:53,360 --> 00:41:55,840
Speaker 2: more your data is available. So if you know a

817
00:41:55,880 --> 00:42:00,759
Speaker 2: bunch of soldiers are under fitbits in Afghanistan and uh,

818
00:42:00,880 --> 00:42:05,160
Speaker 2: the Chinese have access to that data, that's that's important information, right,

819
00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:08,960
Speaker 2: So so and and if and if if it gives

820
00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,440
Speaker 2: you a little bit of an eerie feeling when you

821
00:42:11,600 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: google something like, uh, you know, you want to buy

822
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:16,680
Speaker 2: a new set of sneakers, and then every feed you

823
00:42:16,719 --> 00:42:20,000
Speaker 2: get in your email and your your social media for

824
00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: that point forward includes an advertisement for sneakers. Right. So,

825
00:42:24,680 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 2: so this data is it's it makes us all vulnerable

826
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 2: and there's no controls what sort of there's no privacy.

827
00:42:32,040 --> 00:42:35,560
Speaker 2: The social media companies have access. TikTok has access. What's interesting,

828
00:42:35,760 --> 00:42:40,280
Speaker 2: uh to this is TikTok has no restrictions on how

829
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:42,719
Speaker 2: children access it in the United States. There's all sorts

830
00:42:42,760 --> 00:42:46,279
Speaker 2: of restrictions on how children access TikTok in China. Right,

831
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:50,440
Speaker 2: So one thing is is personal privacy and vulnerability. The

832
00:42:50,520 --> 00:42:55,840
Speaker 2: second is that data is a strategic asset. You know,

833
00:42:55,880 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 2: the economists had this article recently that said data is

834
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,200
Speaker 2: a new oil. It's not new oil. It's strategic like oil,

835
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,640
Speaker 2: but oil, once you use it as gone, data can

836
00:43:06,680 --> 00:43:09,320
Speaker 2: be used over and over again. And the best example

837
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 2: of the power of data is the collaboration that happened

838
00:43:12,760 --> 00:43:16,600
Speaker 2: with the COVID vaccines. So all the pharmaceutical companies came

839
00:43:16,600 --> 00:43:19,760
Speaker 2: together and they share their data and we made huge

840
00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:23,319
Speaker 2: strides under warp speed that would have never happened if

841
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:25,879
Speaker 2: without that data sharing. And incidentally, the Chinese didn't share

842
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,760
Speaker 2: their data, and China has complete control over its data

843
00:43:29,760 --> 00:43:33,200
Speaker 2: of its citizens, which is terrible from a human liberty perspective,

844
00:43:33,560 --> 00:43:36,359
Speaker 2: but very valuable from an innovation perspective. So that's the

845
00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:38,360
Speaker 2: second thing that we have to have a framework for

846
00:43:38,440 --> 00:43:40,759
Speaker 2: dealing with the third thing. And I know you feel

847
00:43:40,800 --> 00:43:44,000
Speaker 2: this is a guy with kids and as someone who's

848
00:43:44,920 --> 00:43:47,680
Speaker 2: focused on ensuring that we have a marketplace of ideas.

849
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:53,239
Speaker 2: Social media has completely hijacked our ability to have an objective,

850
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:58,680
Speaker 2: fact based discourse in our country. The liberal media combined

851
00:43:58,719 --> 00:44:03,919
Speaker 2: with the social media leaning to the left, allows things

852
00:44:03,920 --> 00:44:06,200
Speaker 2: to happen like we can't have a meaningful discussion till

853
00:44:06,280 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 2: right now about the origins of COVID. This breaks through

854
00:44:10,640 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 2: thinking that COVID, which originated in Wuhan, might be connected

855
00:44:14,840 --> 00:44:17,719
Speaker 2: to the lab that does experiments that Wuhan. The fact

856
00:44:17,760 --> 00:44:21,560
Speaker 2: that that was suppressed is madness. The same with the

857
00:44:21,640 --> 00:44:24,439
Speaker 2: hunter byen laptop, all these things. So we don't have

858
00:44:25,239 --> 00:44:29,239
Speaker 2: a meaningful exchange of ideas anymore when so many of

859
00:44:29,320 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 2: us are dependent on social media. So this is one

860
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,440
Speaker 2: of those cases where you say, the blending of populism

861
00:44:36,440 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 2: and traditional conservatism. I try to call out my book. Listen,

862
00:44:39,560 --> 00:44:42,399
Speaker 2: I'm going to say something right now that's different from

863
00:44:42,960 --> 00:44:47,920
Speaker 2: traditional conservatism. Traditional conservatism hands off, government does get involved.

864
00:44:48,280 --> 00:44:52,479
Speaker 2: I mostly agree with that more government is bad, less

865
00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 2: government good most of the time, like in the fracking industry,

866
00:44:56,239 --> 00:45:00,920
Speaker 2: less government is better. But on big tech, this is

867
00:45:00,920 --> 00:45:03,200
Speaker 2: where I think we need more government involvement to make

868
00:45:03,239 --> 00:45:07,319
Speaker 2: sure that that social media companies are held accountable for

869
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,520
Speaker 2: the bias that exists across those platforms. And that's a

870
00:45:10,560 --> 00:45:13,319
Speaker 2: sense of issue, but that in technology policy the two

871
00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:15,560
Speaker 2: areas where I think the government needs to play a

872
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 2: more aggressive role to protect our interest.

873
00:45:19,000 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 1: I mean, I totally agree, especially with regard. I mean, yes,

874
00:45:21,800 --> 00:45:24,320
Speaker 1: generally speaking, I want the government out of every aspect

875
00:45:24,320 --> 00:45:27,200
Speaker 1: of our lives. But you've got these huge companies, like

876
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: global companies, And this is the thing that bothers me

877
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:31,520
Speaker 1: about to Dave, and you have I don't want to

878
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,520
Speaker 1: even call out like like somebody like Google, because Google

879
00:45:34,560 --> 00:45:37,040
Speaker 1: does lots of great things, but they're but they're here,

880
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:39,680
Speaker 1: They're founded here in America, yet they have interest all

881
00:45:39,719 --> 00:45:42,319
Speaker 1: over the world and a huge market in China. And

882
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,520
Speaker 1: half the time I wonder with some of their global

883
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:46,799
Speaker 1: policies that come out, do they even recognize that they're

884
00:45:46,800 --> 00:45:49,680
Speaker 1: a country that is based and founded in America that

885
00:45:49,760 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: should be focused on American primacy. And so some of

886
00:45:53,880 --> 00:45:57,920
Speaker 1: these companies has gotten so big the monopolistic tendencies therein

887
00:45:58,640 --> 00:45:59,400
Speaker 1: are harmful.

888
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:02,600
Speaker 2: Eric, I agree with you, and listen, this is I

889
00:46:02,640 --> 00:46:05,440
Speaker 2: think an area. Like the thing about a campaign is

890
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:08,520
Speaker 2: you get thirty seconds. The thing about a book is

891
00:46:08,520 --> 00:46:10,920
Speaker 2: you get to talk about this. But I think you're right,

892
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:14,239
Speaker 2: and take Google as an example. You know, I agree

893
00:46:14,280 --> 00:46:16,600
Speaker 2: with you. Google's created lots of jobs. But two things

894
00:46:16,600 --> 00:46:19,359
Speaker 2: that I would say are really problematic. One is, if

895
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,799
Speaker 2: you remember Project Mabon was.

896
00:46:22,080 --> 00:46:23,520
Speaker 1: That's exactly what I was thinking about.

897
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,320
Speaker 2: Yes, so tech, most of these tech companies, Microsoft's an example,

898
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:31,239
Speaker 2: is a example the other way. But most of these

899
00:46:31,280 --> 00:46:35,399
Speaker 2: big tech companies do not collaborate with the Pentagon. That's

900
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:37,520
Speaker 2: changing a little bit, but they've had and the reason

901
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:40,680
Speaker 2: is that they're workers. The tech workers don't want to

902
00:46:40,680 --> 00:46:44,960
Speaker 2: be associated with the work and defense. I think that's unacceptable. Right.

903
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:46,960
Speaker 2: If you look at our success in the Cold War,

904
00:46:47,640 --> 00:46:53,800
Speaker 2: the merger of America, American industry with defense spending was

905
00:46:53,840 --> 00:46:57,200
Speaker 2: how we had the success we had. And these companies

906
00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:59,320
Speaker 2: are American companies first, and I think the idea that

907
00:46:59,360 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 2: they're not collaborating or willing to collaborate with the US

908
00:47:02,239 --> 00:47:05,880
Speaker 2: military and pursuit of military that's a problem. And uh

909
00:47:06,040 --> 00:47:08,759
Speaker 2: and is something that should be you know, should be

910
00:47:08,840 --> 00:47:11,480
Speaker 2: recognized and called out. And the benefits of being an

911
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:14,920
Speaker 2: American company maybe should go to companies that won't support America. Right,

912
00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: That's one, right. The second is and you know, I'm

913
00:47:18,560 --> 00:47:21,080
Speaker 2: I've done business around the globe and in the case

914
00:47:21,120 --> 00:47:24,719
Speaker 2: of China, you know, I think we do need and

915
00:47:24,760 --> 00:47:26,760
Speaker 2: I lay out a whole chapter in the book around

916
00:47:26,800 --> 00:47:31,880
Speaker 2: a holistic plan, whole of nation strategy for dealing with China,

917
00:47:32,239 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: strategic decoupling, holy China accountable for everything from the Wuhan

918
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:41,600
Speaker 2: virus to its feevery to human rights abuses, coordinating with

919
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,480
Speaker 2: our allies in a very thoughtful way about how we

920
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,560
Speaker 2: pursue US interests by pardoning with them. Some of those

921
00:47:48,600 --> 00:47:51,680
Speaker 2: allies have our most significant intel. So but I also

922
00:47:51,760 --> 00:47:56,960
Speaker 2: say we need an outbound investment process to review investments.

923
00:47:57,000 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: So a good example of this, which I can't belie

924
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 2: need This is still the Kesehan, but it is after

925
00:48:02,680 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 2: all this talk about China, after all that we know

926
00:48:05,600 --> 00:48:10,320
Speaker 2: there are still investment companies in the United States, Silicon

927
00:48:10,400 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 2: Valley companies that are investing in companies in China that

928
00:48:15,760 --> 00:48:19,960
Speaker 2: are part of or work with the Chinese military. The PLA. Right,

929
00:48:20,040 --> 00:48:23,440
Speaker 2: so artificial intelligence companies are investing in China their main

930
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:26,799
Speaker 2: customer is a PLA. That's unacceptable. It is it should

931
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:29,360
Speaker 2: be obvious to a US company that we should do,

932
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:31,400
Speaker 2: but we should make it more obvious by restricting it.

933
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:34,719
Speaker 2: And we should have an outbound I don't know if

934
00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:37,320
Speaker 2: I'm sure you're familiar with Scipius, which is the review

935
00:48:37,520 --> 00:48:40,239
Speaker 2: we do of investment in the country. I think we

936
00:48:40,280 --> 00:48:43,400
Speaker 2: should have a similar review of investments that go outside

937
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:46,920
Speaker 2: the country, to places like China and probably some other

938
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 2: countries where it poses any risk to US interests.

939
00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,560
Speaker 1: Why don't we? I mean that is I'm flabbergasted by that, And.

940
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:57,960
Speaker 2: That is obvious. It's an obvious thing, and there's some

941
00:48:58,239 --> 00:49:00,399
Speaker 2: on Capitol Hill talking about it. But you know, this

942
00:49:00,440 --> 00:49:03,359
Speaker 2: is where when I ran for the Senate twenty joint two,

943
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: I was excited because I think I is as someone

944
00:49:06,239 --> 00:49:09,399
Speaker 2: who's been in the military, served at the highest levels

945
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:12,720
Speaker 2: of business, and been a government. You know, to tackle

946
00:49:12,719 --> 00:49:17,480
Speaker 2: these issues, you need confidence, and confidence comes from being

947
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:19,360
Speaker 2: able to see all the different dimensions of a problem

948
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 2: and then shooting a you know, shooting a direction that

949
00:49:22,200 --> 00:49:25,439
Speaker 2: that makes sense. And you know, I didn't sadly wasn't

950
00:49:25,440 --> 00:49:27,759
Speaker 2: able to do that is because I lost the race.

951
00:49:28,160 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: But I'm trying to do that with this book. And

952
00:49:30,040 --> 00:49:32,239
Speaker 2: if you know, if the book was wildly successful, in

953
00:49:32,239 --> 00:49:34,399
Speaker 2: my mind, what that would mean is that people talk

954
00:49:34,440 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 2: about it and and this forces people to sort of

955
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,040
Speaker 2: engage on a possible agenda. Maybe it's this agenda, maybe

956
00:49:40,080 --> 00:49:42,719
Speaker 2: it's another one. But the thing I'm convinced about, and

957
00:49:42,719 --> 00:49:46,279
Speaker 2: I'm not a political pundit, I don't. I'm convinced we're

958
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:50,160
Speaker 2: not going to change the country as Republicans unless we

959
00:49:50,200 --> 00:49:53,600
Speaker 2: win elections. And we're not gonna win elections unless we

960
00:49:53,680 --> 00:49:55,120
Speaker 2: have a vision and plan for the future. We're not

961
00:49:55,160 --> 00:49:58,640
Speaker 2: gonna want elections looking backwards. We're gonna win elections looking forwards.

962
00:49:58,640 --> 00:50:00,560
Speaker 2: And that's what I'm I'm trying to do with the book.

963
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, I mean, look, leadership. One on one, we

964
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:04,600
Speaker 1: talked about it a little bit during this interview. Leaders

965
00:50:04,680 --> 00:50:07,359
Speaker 1: project a vision on the horizon and they bring people

966
00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:10,759
Speaker 1: with him and support that vision. And so, I mean,

967
00:50:11,320 --> 00:50:13,239
Speaker 1: I got to ask before I let you go. And

968
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:15,080
Speaker 1: I want to be respectful of your time because you've

969
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:17,479
Speaker 1: given me a lot of it. What's next for you, Dave?

970
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: I mean, and give us a sense of what the

971
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:22,560
Speaker 1: heck is going on in Pennsylvania, Like if Fetterman, where

972
00:50:22,640 --> 00:50:26,160
Speaker 1: is he? What's the process? I mean, like, and where's

973
00:50:26,200 --> 00:50:27,919
Speaker 1: your head at with the next cycle? Yeah?

974
00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 2: Well, you know it's uh. You and I have talked

975
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:33,520
Speaker 2: about this. You can't commit. You know, you can't do

976
00:50:33,560 --> 00:50:37,560
Speaker 2: what I've done, which is quit your job, you know,

977
00:50:37,880 --> 00:50:40,400
Speaker 2: throw yourself into a Senate race because you think the

978
00:50:40,440 --> 00:50:42,279
Speaker 2: country's going in the wrong direction. And if you fall

979
00:50:42,400 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 2: nine hundred votes short, say oh, I was just kidding, right,

980
00:50:45,160 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 2: So the motivation to serve, the motivation to help our

981
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 2: country is strong, and I feel more strong, honestly, more

982
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,600
Speaker 2: strong now than I did when I ran. How did

983
00:50:56,640 --> 00:51:00,400
Speaker 2: best serve? I'm not sure. I'm honestly not sure. As family,

984
00:51:00,440 --> 00:51:02,279
Speaker 2: we haven't decided. One way would be to run for

985
00:51:02,320 --> 00:51:08,000
Speaker 2: the Senate for Senator Casey's seat, which is which he

986
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:11,080
Speaker 2: currently holds, which would be twenty four. I don't know

987
00:51:12,040 --> 00:51:16,080
Speaker 2: about Senator Fetterman. You know, no one can watch what's

988
00:51:16,120 --> 00:51:19,239
Speaker 2: happening with him and not feel, you know, like in

989
00:51:19,280 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 2: your heart, like prayed for that family. He's obviously very sick.

990
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,040
Speaker 2: At the same time, you know, I think is a

991
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 2: practical matter, it raises legitimate questions that did we know

992
00:51:29,320 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 2: everything as voters, yeah, in November? And you know it

993
00:51:33,600 --> 00:51:36,200
Speaker 2: also just is emblematic. This is the first time in

994
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:40,600
Speaker 2: seventy six years we've had two Democratic senators for Pennsylvania.

995
00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:43,440
Speaker 2: That's that's Pennsylvania's deserve better in that in my opinion.

996
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:47,600
Speaker 2: And so you know, we're thinking about that, but when

997
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:49,600
Speaker 2: we're praying about it, but we're not going to make

998
00:51:49,640 --> 00:51:51,840
Speaker 2: any decisions anytime soon, and we're trying to, you know,

999
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:54,000
Speaker 2: hopefully make this a successful book. And that would be

1000
00:51:54,120 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 2: for me a service if I could do that and do.

1001
00:51:56,040 --> 00:51:59,359
Speaker 1: It well well. Phase one of the operation before Dave

1002
00:51:59,400 --> 00:52:02,480
Speaker 1: decides to be he's gonna run is go get this book.

1003
00:52:02,560 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: Superpower and Peril is a great But if you're a

1004
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:08,040
Speaker 1: Republican that's interested in the future of the country and

1005
00:52:08,080 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: a roadmap to take us to take us there get

1006
00:52:11,120 --> 00:52:13,160
Speaker 1: the book. It's great. I'm sure you can get it

1007
00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:16,480
Speaker 1: wherever books are sold and we'll be following you, Dave.

1008
00:52:16,640 --> 00:52:20,440
Speaker 1: I mean, you ran a great, a great campaign, and

1009
00:52:20,520 --> 00:52:22,799
Speaker 1: thank you for coming on the on on the battleground man.

1010
00:52:22,880 --> 00:52:26,799
Speaker 2: Thank you, I appreciate. You can buy the book if

1011
00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:31,040
Speaker 2: you just go to Dave mccormickbook dot com and that'll

1012
00:52:31,040 --> 00:52:34,520
Speaker 2: take it right to the Amazon link and listen. It's

1013
00:52:34,280 --> 00:52:36,080
Speaker 2: a it's a it was a labor of love in

1014
00:52:36,080 --> 00:52:38,680
Speaker 2: the sense that it's all about trying to you know,

1015
00:52:38,719 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 2: get the country moving in the right direction. And really

1016
00:52:41,239 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 2: grateful to you. Excited about this podcast. I've listened to

1017
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:47,799
Speaker 2: a number of them and they're great and uh and

1018
00:52:47,840 --> 00:52:51,359
Speaker 2: you're a great person to do it. Thanks. As I said,

1019
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,279
Speaker 2: you're a great patriot and you know this stuff. But

1020
00:52:53,280 --> 00:52:55,920
Speaker 2: more than that, you really are. You are focused on

1021
00:52:56,040 --> 00:52:59,400
Speaker 2: solutions to make our country better and uh, you know,

1022
00:52:59,480 --> 00:53:02,799
Speaker 2: rhetorics great, but we need solutions. And so thanks for

1023
00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:03,399
Speaker 2: what you're doing.

1024
00:53:03,840 --> 00:53:07,560
Speaker 1: Oh, you're welcome. Good luck man, and you know, anytime

1025
00:53:07,600 --> 00:53:09,719
Speaker 1: you need anything, you know where to find me. All right,

1026
00:53:10,440 --> 00:53:13,160
Speaker 1: thank you, see you, Dave. All Right, everybody that is

1027
00:53:13,280 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: a rap. Thank you for joining the Battleground podcast. Dave

1028
00:53:17,560 --> 00:53:20,920
Speaker 1: McCormick's an oppressive guy, right. You know, you heard a

1029
00:53:20,960 --> 00:53:24,200
Speaker 1: lot about him on the Senate trail, right, lots of

1030
00:53:24,280 --> 00:53:27,319
Speaker 1: television ad I think over three hundred million dollars of ads.

1031
00:53:27,400 --> 00:53:29,400
Speaker 1: We're running that race, so you hear lots of things.

1032
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,720
Speaker 1: But it's sort of great to cut through that noise

1033
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:36,040
Speaker 1: and learn about who the guy really is. He's impressive

1034
00:53:36,360 --> 00:53:39,799
Speaker 1: in this book, Superpower and Peril. It really really is

1035
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:42,319
Speaker 1: a good book. I've read it cover to cover. If

1036
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:45,719
Speaker 1: you're interested, you know, not just in Dave's story, but

1037
00:53:45,880 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: in substantive ideas in a plan to really take this

1038
00:53:50,719 --> 00:53:53,760
Speaker 1: country to the next level. You got to read this book.

1039
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:59,320
Speaker 1: In the meantime, continue to recommend this podcast to other people.

1040
00:53:59,600 --> 00:54:01,799
Speaker 1: You're the reason why we're doing this. I've got a

1041
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:05,040
Speaker 1: brand new website Upofficial Sean Parnell dot com. I've got

1042
00:54:05,120 --> 00:54:10,160
Speaker 1: Battleground apparel on that website. I've got exclusive content on

1043
00:54:10,200 --> 00:54:13,239
Speaker 1: my YouTube channel and now on my Rumble channel, which

1044
00:54:13,239 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 1: are both growing like gangbusters. We love having you there

1045
00:54:17,160 --> 00:54:20,640
Speaker 1: and subscribe to the podcast again wherever you listen to podcasts,

1046
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:24,520
Speaker 1: and as always, thank you so much. For listening. God

1047
00:54:24,560 --> 00:54:29,480
Speaker 1: bless you all, and God bless this amazing country that

1048
00:54:29,560 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 1: we call home. Take care