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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to Stephanomics, the podcast that brings the

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Speaker 1: global economy to you. You couldn't write an economic history

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Speaker 1: of the past fifty years without multiple mentions of poor Volca,

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Speaker 1: who died this week at the age of ninety two.

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Speaker 1: If you think about it, he played a key role

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Speaker 1: in not one, not two, but three of the financial

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Speaker 1: landmark events of the past half century. He advised President

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Speaker 1: Nixon on the decision to leave the gold standard, which

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Speaker 1: led to the collapse of the whole post war Breton

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Speaker 1: Wood system in one then, most famously, as Chair of

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Speaker 1: the Federal Reserve for much of the eighties, he forced

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Speaker 1: the US Central Bank to do what it took to

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Speaker 1: confront inflation, even when what it took was a deep

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Speaker 1: recession and a soaring dollar. And then he was still

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Speaker 1: around in two thousand and eight advising President Obama on

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Speaker 1: how to cope with fallout from the global financial crisis,

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Speaker 1: devising new rules for banks which remain in diluted form today.

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Speaker 1: Has a massive legacy which I'm going to discuss with

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Speaker 1: Paul Boker's co author Bloomberg's Christine Harper in a few minutes.

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Speaker 1: But first, India. Now India is a lot to get

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Speaker 1: your head round. Even for so called experts, you'll surely

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Speaker 1: know that it's got more than a billion people living

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Speaker 1: in it. But along with that, it has twenty three

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Speaker 1: major languages, eighty five political parties, and three hundred ways

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Speaker 1: of cooking potato. It also has an ambitious Prime minister

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Speaker 1: Knownrid Moody, who, like President Trump, has thrived by breaking

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Speaker 1: with traditional models of how politicians should behave. But now

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Speaker 1: the economy is hitting trouble and so is he. In

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Speaker 1: a few minutes, I'll ask our India economist Abushek Gupta

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Speaker 1: whether the Prime Minister Moody has the capacity to turn

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Speaker 1: things round. But first, Bloomberg Economy reporter Annoban Nag has

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Speaker 1: this report from the diamond mines of West central India.

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Speaker 1: Take diamonds, Hollywood, A listeners and a two billion dollar

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Speaker 1: fraud and you have all the ingredients of made for

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Speaker 1: TV scandal that had all India paying attention. So there

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Speaker 1: you have it. Now, Enforcement directed reading the offices of

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Speaker 1: need A Moody, the famous jeweler who's really at the

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Speaker 1: center of this entire scandal at the Punjab National Police

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Speaker 1: rated the officers of Diamond mogul Nero Moody to investigate

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Speaker 1: an Alex scam involving fake guarantees and sham transactions. Moody,

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Speaker 1: who's not related to Prime Minister Narrendra Modi, was once

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Speaker 1: a joweler to the stars. He had boutiques in London,

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong and Mumbai. Nero Mody has denied wrongdoing. He's

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Speaker 1: currently being held in the UK and fighting extradition to India. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 1: India's renowned precious stone dealers are still reeling from the reprocursions.

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Speaker 1: After it was first alerted of the bank loot in

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Speaker 1: the sixteenth of January, it took Punjab National Bank almost

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Speaker 1: a month to understand the extent and gravity. India's low

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Speaker 1: cost and high scale labor has turned the country into

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Speaker 1: a hub of global jewelry. India exports of the words

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Speaker 1: polish diamonds, according to the industry's Export Promotion Council, many

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Speaker 1: of which end up in engagement rings and diamond bracelets

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Speaker 1: sold a jewelers like Tiffany's. According to the government, the

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Speaker 1: sector employs nearly five million workers, accounting for almost seven

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Speaker 1: percent of GDP, but the industry has been in serious

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Speaker 1: trouble since the scandal broke, workers are losing jobs and

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Speaker 1: businesses are shutting shops. If anything is to go by

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Speaker 1: this way, Prime Minister Modi has little chance of achieving

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Speaker 1: his goal of reaching one trillion dollars in annual exports

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Speaker 1: over the next five years. It's also weighing on the

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Speaker 1: broader economy. So what went wrong? For answers, we went

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Speaker 1: to the diamond hub of Surat. The city is a

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Speaker 1: three and a half hour train journey north from India's

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Speaker 1: financial capital Mumbai. It's home to over a million people

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Speaker 1: employed in the sector, including the skilled artisans that polished

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Speaker 1: their diamonds. Many of them migrate from elsewhere in India,

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Speaker 1: attracted by the prospects of higher income bubble by Criteria

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Speaker 1: started off as one such artisan about four decades ago,

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Speaker 1: and he now has the Seut Diamond Association. He wears

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Speaker 1: a yellow and red thread around his right hand, an

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Speaker 1: amulet worn by many of India's Hindus to protect someone

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Speaker 1: from trouble. It's a protection that his industry really needs

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Speaker 1: right now. I have seen many slowdowns in my more

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Speaker 1: than forty year career in the diamond industry. The last

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Speaker 1: time it was severe was in two thousand eight. But

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Speaker 1: conditions had normalized after a couple of months. But this

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Speaker 1: time the slowdowns has dragged on for seven eight months

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Speaker 1: now and has hurt a business immensely. How with the

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Speaker 1: Sponde is a skilled artisan with nearly two decades of experience.

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Speaker 1: Five months ago, he reported to work at one of

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Speaker 1: the thousands of diamond polishing factories, only to find the

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Speaker 1: doors locked. The owner of the company had pulled down

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Speaker 1: the shut ors overnight and fled without telling any of

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Speaker 1: his forty workers. We were unable to track down the

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Speaker 1: owner for comment. Ponde, who's thirty three, moved to Suos

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Speaker 1: from across the country following the footsteps of his elder brother.

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Speaker 1: Before losing his job, used to own the equivalent of

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Speaker 1: around three d and fifteen dollars a month, roughly double

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Speaker 1: the country's per capita income. But Ponde is now boring

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Speaker 1: money from friends to pay the rent on his one

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Speaker 1: room house and the tuition for his two kids. The

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Speaker 1: owners shut shop without paying us our monthly salary. I

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Speaker 1: have been roaming the streets in the past month and

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Speaker 1: more trying to get another job. They leave in the

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Speaker 1: morning and come back home in the evening, but no luck.

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Speaker 1: Some factories say they don't have demand. Some say they

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Speaker 1: don't have rough diamonds. The outcry following the near of

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Speaker 1: Mody scandal has created an atmosphere of distrust between banks

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Speaker 1: and jeweler's. Rob Vrani is a second generation director and

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Speaker 1: be Vranian Company, a diamond cutting and polishing firm in Sura.

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Speaker 1: He talked to us in his Glass World office about

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Speaker 1: the factory floor. Behind him hangs his NBA diploma from

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Speaker 1: Canada's Ryerson University. So liquidity crunches is one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest problem. That is that kind of has you know,

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Speaker 1: made this crisis even worse so because of these certain

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Speaker 1: companies that do want ethical practices, right bank have I

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Speaker 1: think all of a sudden they've said that we don't

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Speaker 1: want to give credit to the diamond industry because there

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Speaker 1: are there are many cases you know that. In addition,

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Speaker 1: the trade war between China and the US has put

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Speaker 1: a dampener on sales. Vrani said. While the US is

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Speaker 1: the biggest consumer of Indian diamonds, a lot of stones

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Speaker 1: transit through China for jewelry manufacturing or wholesale trading, with

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Speaker 1: the U s cutting its purchases of Chinese goods. The

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Speaker 1: Indian gem industry has felt the impact. So although India

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Speaker 1: is not part of any global supply chain, exports have

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Speaker 1: been hit, dragging down overall economic growth to four point

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Speaker 1: five percent in the third quarter. It's lowest in six

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Speaker 1: years back in sorl It's hard times as employment in

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Speaker 1: the industry has fallen and incomes for skilled artisans has

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Speaker 1: been reduced by more than sev in the past few months.

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Speaker 1: According to industry groups pour of A, the Sponde, the

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Speaker 1: Skilled Artisan it's a bleak and hard struggle, mirroring much

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Speaker 1: of the slowdown in the economy when they had. I

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Speaker 1: am so stressed right now. If this environment continues, then

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Speaker 1: I have to consider leaving the industry and go back

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Speaker 1: to the village and work in the field for a

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Speaker 1: much less money. For Bloomberg News, I'm on near one now.

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Speaker 1: So Abushek Gupta is Bloomberg's India economist. He's got a

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Speaker 1: bit famous in the Indian market circles for disagreeing with

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Speaker 1: other economists in Mumbai over what the Central Bank of

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Speaker 1: India is going to do next, and I should say

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Speaker 1: he's more often right than wrong. Abishek, thank you very

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. Thanks a lot, Stephanie for having

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Speaker 1: me on the show. It's a pleasure. So those of

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Speaker 1: us who are not necessarily following every twist and turn

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Speaker 1: of the Central banks policies or indeed the Government of

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Speaker 1: India's policies, you know, we hear that story there from

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Speaker 1: Annaba Nag about how the diamond industry has been affected

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Speaker 1: by trade wars and by the slowing of the Indian economy.

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Speaker 1: If we step back from the day to day of

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Speaker 1: central bank policy and what's going on a month to

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Speaker 1: month with the economy, you know, most people will have noticed.

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Speaker 1: I think when No Injury Moody came to office in

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Speaker 1: India in fourteen he got reelected again um this year,

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Speaker 1: there was a lot of talk about major reform and

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Speaker 1: putting the economy on a completely different trajectory. We have

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Speaker 1: seen reforms, but if you look at the state of

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Speaker 1: the economy, it doesn't look that great. What's happened, Stephanie,

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Speaker 1: I think that that's that's a great question. And indeed,

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Speaker 1: if you look at No into more these drag record

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Speaker 1: over the last few years, he has certainly delivered on

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Speaker 1: a lot of significant structional reforms, I'll say, but the

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Speaker 1: way I think about these reforms is that they aren't

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Speaker 1: necessarily growth in anything at least in the short run.

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Speaker 1: They prove efficiency and productivity over the medium term, but

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Speaker 1: what's exactly happening in the near term. For instance, let's

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Speaker 1: just pick up one of the reforms, like Marin Smoothie

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Speaker 1: delivered on a new bankruptcy law for India, and under

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Speaker 1: this law, what's happening is that, or instance, bad assets

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Speaker 1: would now be changing hands, so from an old promoter

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Speaker 1: to a new promoter, and that and sometimes things get

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Speaker 1: delayed in the legal process and stuff like this would

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Speaker 1: negatively impact the economic activity of that secution it in

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Speaker 1: the short run, and similarly for other reforms as well,

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Speaker 1: in the short run, in the initial years of these reforms,

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Speaker 1: uh this that's uh, there's a transition phase which kind

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Speaker 1: of slows things down. Having said that, my sense would

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Speaker 1: have been that over the past few years, things should

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Speaker 1: have already started looking up by now, but that has

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Speaker 1: not been the case, And I kind of put the

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Speaker 1: blame more on not sufficient monitor easy rather than not

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Speaker 1: more reforms. So clearly, I think Monkey policy could have

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Speaker 1: done a lot more to support government structural reforms. Barallelly,

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Speaker 1: but that hasn't been the case so far. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: it's true you've had you you were very critical and

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Speaker 1: particularly of the previous head of the Reserve Bank of India.

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Speaker 1: Um and when when the when Moody effectively got rid

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Speaker 1: of him. You know, often when when governments interfere with

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Speaker 1: who's going to run the central bank, there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of concern in the markets about the independence of the

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Speaker 1: central bank being violated. But it was striking that there

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Speaker 1: was not that kind of reaction from the markets when

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Speaker 1: that happened, perhaps because investors agree with you that that

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Speaker 1: the bank had been too tight. Yes, certainly that has

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Speaker 1: been the case. In fact, one of the key even

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Speaker 1: holding back India's economy is the weak state of uh

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Speaker 1: India's shadow banking sector. There are these non bank finance

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Speaker 1: companies in India which essentially are extending credit to consumers

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Speaker 1: and housing finance companies, and these companies were quite negatively

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Speaker 1: impacted due to a liquidly crunch which was created in

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Speaker 1: the economy in late twenty eighteen under the earlier RB governorate.

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Speaker 1: Over the last year, the new Central Bank governor has

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Speaker 1: reversed some of those politty mistakes and we have seen

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Speaker 1: credit spreads come down for the better rated companies, but

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Speaker 1: some of the weak created companies, the credit spreads are

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Speaker 1: still widening. And and that is financial financial shock that

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Speaker 1: needs to be eased. I mean, we we've we had

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Speaker 1: a bit in that piece about the pain that some

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Speaker 1: of that the financial squeeze is causing in the diamond

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Speaker 1: sector and for some for some in that region. But

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Speaker 1: obviously this is an enormously diverse economy. Um, the rural

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Speaker 1: sectors particularly important, not just economically but politically. If you're

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Speaker 1: sitting in a rural area, how have how have you

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Speaker 1: really felt the impact of Prime Minister Moodi or maybe

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Speaker 1: you haven't felt that much different that's a separate discussion altogether.

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Speaker 1: So I mean, if you look at Prime Minister Marrieds

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Speaker 1: Moodies policies, he has also reinvented himself in the in

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Speaker 1: his political party, the b JP, in terms of delivering

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Speaker 1: more welfare oriented policies of the rural pool. In fact,

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Speaker 1: if you sort of talk about giving free gas cylinder

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Speaker 1: than gas connections, that that's being a very popular policy.

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Speaker 1: Constructing toilets that has been another major campaign of his.

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Speaker 1: And besides that, he's also increased electrification in rural villages

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Speaker 1: and opened bank accounts for for the rural poor. And

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Speaker 1: just this year he had announced an income support package

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Speaker 1: for farmers. So I think he has done a lot

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Speaker 1: for the rural poor. However, the impact of that has

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Speaker 1: been missing in terms of consumption. But probably the rural

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Speaker 1: economy has benefited from American movies policies. And if you

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Speaker 1: speak to taxi drivers in India who kind of come

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Speaker 1: from some of these rural villages in smaller towns, they

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Speaker 1: do confirmed that either they themselves and their families or

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Speaker 1: the extended families people have benefited from reading the movies policies.

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Speaker 1: So so he is popular in rural India as well. Hm,

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Speaker 1: that's interesting. I mean, I I guess people from a

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Speaker 1: distance will be wondering. I mean, he's a He's a

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Speaker 1: prime minister who has been controversial often outside of India

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Speaker 1: for his treatment of people in Kashmir. He's violated the

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Speaker 1: human rights in some ways or has been criticized for that.

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Speaker 1: He's also um not always been a fan of of

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Speaker 1: of press freedom. I think investors have sort of weighed

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Speaker 1: that against his ability to get the economy going. But

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Speaker 1: how important is it for his future to really change

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Speaker 1: the performance of the economy, or is he in a

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Speaker 1: is he in a strong enough now position politically that

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Speaker 1: he just needs to avoid a big recession. I think

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Speaker 1: that that's that's a very important question that that hits

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Speaker 1: said the point in terms of what will drive his

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Speaker 1: re election in two um. If you look at the

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Speaker 1: first year of a second term, he has had great

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Speaker 1: success in terms of delivering policies and legislation that appeals

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Speaker 1: to his majority in the water base. Be it as

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Speaker 1: you said, the application of Article three seventeen englishmir on

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Speaker 1: the Supreme Court ruling in favor of a temple um

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Speaker 1: or the current sort of ship amendment will which is

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Speaker 1: uh we just got past yesterday in the Parliament, which

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Speaker 1: discriminates against Muslims. So all of these kinds of things

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Speaker 1: do appeal to those database and have maintained his popularity

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Speaker 1: with the masters. But my sense is that this is

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Speaker 1: not what is going to count in four And I

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Speaker 1: think even he understands the importance of reviving the economy

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Speaker 1: because he had initially in twenty fourteen run on the

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Speaker 1: end of development and he needs to bring economic prosperity

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Speaker 1: and bring jobs for the junk demographic force, which is

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Speaker 1: coming into the job market, and that is why he

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Speaker 1: has been focusing a lot on this dollar five brillion economy. Well,

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Speaker 1: we will watch and wait, bishek Upta, thank you very much. Thanks.

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Speaker 1: I said something about Paul Volca at the beginning of

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Speaker 1: the program. Who's died this week, But someone who got

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Speaker 1: to spend a lot of time with him in the

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Speaker 1: last few years is Bloomberg's own Christine Harper, whose editor

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Speaker 1: of Markets magazine but also wrote with Paul Vocer a

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Speaker 1: memoir keeping at It, The Quest for Sound Money and

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Speaker 1: Good Government, which only came out a year ago. Christine,

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Speaker 1: I know you've you've written and had conversations with people

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Speaker 1: in the last few days since Paul Voker died. I

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Speaker 1: guess one question to ask you is about the difference

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Speaker 1: between the legend of Paul Volca, who I certainly found

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Speaker 1: quite scary the few times that I interviewed him, not

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Speaker 1: least because he was so tall, and the man that

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Speaker 1: that you got to know in writing this book because

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Speaker 1: it didn't quite work out the way you thought it

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Speaker 1: was going to go. Yes, I would say that's true.

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Speaker 1: And my understanding is that most people who have had

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Speaker 1: some personal dealings with him have come away with the

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Speaker 1: same conclusion, which is that he has this very forbidding

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Speaker 1: public persona. I mean, if you look at the you know,

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Speaker 1: the photography UM taken while he was fed chairman, or

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Speaker 1: the or the caricatures that were drawn of him, he

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Speaker 1: was always as a sort of Olympian godlike figure glowering

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Speaker 1: down at the mere mortals, who were you know, screwing

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Speaker 1: up the planet um. And so he did have this

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Speaker 1: He had this kind of Old Testament quality to him.

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Speaker 1: But once you met him in person, he was absolutely

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Speaker 1: a sweetie pie. He was one of those people who

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Speaker 1: seem like rough and could use that fearsome persona to

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Speaker 1: sort of achieve outcomes he wanted and take on, you know,

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Speaker 1: people or institutions he felt weren't living up to their requirements.

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Speaker 1: But he loved people and he was. He was actually

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Speaker 1: quite shy, and he was very humorous, and he was

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Speaker 1: unbelievable the kind. So when I first met him, I was,

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Speaker 1: I think, like anybody, quite nervous, and he instantly won

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Speaker 1: me over. He was very funny, love telling stories, chuckled

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Speaker 1: a lot, and was always smiling, nothing like what I expected,

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Speaker 1: And as I got to know him more, part of

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Speaker 1: what I really enjoyed talking to him was, of course

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Speaker 1: he had amazing stories about knowing everybody from you know,

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Speaker 1: the leaders of basically every country. He served under six presidents.

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Speaker 1: You know, he's he's had this kind of incredible career.

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Speaker 1: But but he also loved to talk about the crossword

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Speaker 1: puzzle or he was a passionate home cook, and he

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Speaker 1: would talk about the recipes in the New York Times.

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Speaker 1: And you know, when he found an editing error, he

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Speaker 1: would he would relish that he'd found something like that. Um.

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Speaker 1: He was really fun to be around and really pleasant

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Speaker 1: and kind and uh and I think in some ways,

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Speaker 1: you know, he he stood for for the people in

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Speaker 1: what he tried to do publicly, he always put himself

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Speaker 1: as somebody who wanted to take on corrupt influences and

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Speaker 1: and make the government better and make the economy better

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Speaker 1: for for the for the people. But he really did

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Speaker 1: love people. He you know, he took the regular city

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Speaker 1: bus to and from his office until he was ninety

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Speaker 1: years old. He didn't put himself apart. He he really

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Speaker 1: saw himself as a public servant. I thought I was

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Speaker 1: smiling at one of the comments in the Bitteries about

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Speaker 1: him often having shiny suits. You could imagine the Wall

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Speaker 1: Street people being a bit sniffy about him not having

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Speaker 1: spent money on his suits when he was FED chairman,

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Speaker 1: you know, famously, he sort of got a little studio

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Speaker 1: apartment in a building close to the FED that was

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Speaker 1: basically all you know, college students living there. And he

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Speaker 1: had I think a table, a chair, a bed, and

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Speaker 1: some milk crates. And he would take his laundry to

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Speaker 1: his daughters who lived nearby, to get it done every week.

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Speaker 1: And you know that's because his wife was stayed up

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Speaker 1: in New York and was was quite ill, and she

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Speaker 1: was taking care of their son, who had some disabilities,

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Speaker 1: and she didn't want to move. So he just lived

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Speaker 1: like this bachelor and flew back home every weekend. He

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Speaker 1: really didn't care about things. I mean, I remember him

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Speaker 1: once telling me he thought all of the furniture in

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Speaker 1: his apartment, which was quite a nice apartment in New

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Speaker 1: York that he bought at the bottom of the real

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Speaker 1: estate market in nineteen seventy three or something, all of

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Speaker 1: that furniture was probably you know, fifty years old or something.

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Speaker 1: He didn't he didn't really care um. He cared about people.

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Speaker 1: He cared about UM principles, UM. He cared that society

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Speaker 1: do right by people. But he wasn't he was a materialistic,

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Speaker 1: He wasn't selfish. I was. I was appalled that was

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Speaker 1: an event a few years ago that I was speaking

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Speaker 1: at was a sort of private thing of people thinking

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Speaker 1: about the global economy. And I was a pulled when

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Speaker 1: I saw the program that I was supposed to be

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Speaker 1: co presenting with Paul Volka. And then I rapidly realized

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Speaker 1: that it was actually quite liberating because it wouldn't matter

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Speaker 1: at all what I said, because people would really just

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Speaker 1: what he said. But what did you find? I mean,

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Speaker 1: did you find that he was actually quite cheerful? And

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Speaker 1: it was also increasingly he had and we've spoken about

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Speaker 1: this in the past. I mean that he was getting

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Speaker 1: on and he certainly and he had his voice was definitely,

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Speaker 1: you know, reflected his age. So sometimes when you're interviewing him,

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Speaker 1: at least the first time I interviewed him, I found

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Speaker 1: it sort of disconcerting that I was I was expecting

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Speaker 1: this person to play a crucial role in whatever piece

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Speaker 1: I was doing and deliver this great interview, and yet

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Speaker 1: he seemed, you know, he was in his late eighties

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Speaker 1: and would he possibly deliver. But then, of course you

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Speaker 1: the moment he started talking, you realized that he had

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Speaker 1: not only really prepared for the interview, but had incredibly

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Speaker 1: wise and sharp things to say that you wouldn't have

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Speaker 1: got from anyone out. So I always I did found

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Speaker 1: it a pleasure of that you had to, as you say,

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Speaker 1: you have to get past that rather intimidating demeanor, where

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Speaker 1: he did often seem to be sort of scowling when

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Speaker 1: I don't. I don't think he was. But we've talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about the personal stuff, which I think is

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Speaker 1: is always important to remember and a nice thing to

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Speaker 1: remember this week. But I'm of course people will also

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Speaker 1: be interested, particularly since you got to know him in

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Speaker 1: the last few years, of what his attitude was to

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Speaker 1: the current members of the American administration and particularly Donald Trump. Yes, well, um,

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Speaker 1: that was a constant source of frustration, because I think

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Speaker 1: one of the things about him that made him really

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Speaker 1: different was that even though he could he could have

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Speaker 1: a quite harsh judgment uncertain things if he felt they

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Speaker 1: were clearly wrong, Like he had no tolerance for sort

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Speaker 1: of people he felt were overpaid and you know, enriched themselves,

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Speaker 1: at the expense of their customers or the public, or

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Speaker 1: or you know who corrupted institutions. But he he was

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Speaker 1: he was an other in many other respects, this incredibly

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Speaker 1: pragmatic and this incredible sort of tolerant person. So he

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Speaker 1: wanted to give everybody the benefit of the doubt. So

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Speaker 1: as much as you know, I and I know other

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Speaker 1: people were trying to kind of get him to come

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Speaker 1: out and you know, cast strong views on the situation,

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Speaker 1: I think you know, he served under six presidents, he

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Speaker 1: served under Nixon, he served under you know, LBJ and Kennedy.

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Speaker 1: He'd seen a lot of things, and so he was

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Speaker 1: patient in a way that not many people are. Um.

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Speaker 1: I do know that at the end Um and you know,

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Speaker 1: he worked with me on a afterward for the paperback

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Speaker 1: version of his book. He he expressed more concerned about

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Speaker 1: the state of the world because in his book, in

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Speaker 1: the book he um he talked about how you know,

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Speaker 1: his mother had admonished him that things can look bad,

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Speaker 1: but this country has gotten through a lot and will

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Speaker 1: continue to be okay. But he wasn't so sure he

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Speaker 1: believed that anymore. He was very concerned about those sort

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Speaker 1: of forces of you know that we're just sort of

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Speaker 1: out there fighting facts, fighting science, you know, um, just

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Speaker 1: you know, it would seemingly no scorn about the good

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Speaker 1: of the country and of humanity. And so you know,

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Speaker 1: he didn't like to name names, um, but he I

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Speaker 1: think he was very, very displeased at at what he

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Speaker 1: sees going on in the country. And I'll also say,

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Speaker 1: you know, he was he was quite a fan of

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Speaker 1: of the FED, but he was very disappointed and how

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Speaker 1: they watered down the Vulkar rule in the last couple

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Speaker 1: of months. He had sent up a letter to J.

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Speaker 1: Powell warning him not to do that, and they went

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Speaker 1: ahead and did that, and he was not happy about that.

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Speaker 1: He thought that was a big mistake. The rule, the

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Speaker 1: rule that had been the response to the global financial

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Speaker 1: christ kind of constrain strain banks from taking excessive risks. Well, Christine,

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Speaker 1: thank you very much. I mean, I think that the

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Speaker 1: overriding conclusion, and when you read all these obituaries is

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Speaker 1: what a consummate public servant he was. And I certainly

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Speaker 1: hope that one of these days those kind of public

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Speaker 1: servants will will come back into favor. Yes, I think

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Speaker 1: that's more than anything what he wanted. His legacy to

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Speaker 1: be as an example for other people to follow into

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Speaker 1: public service and into really believing that it was a

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Speaker 1: noble calling, because he certainly felt it was. Where you'll

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Speaker 1: see Christine, thank you very much, Thank you, thanks for

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Speaker 1: listening to Stephanomics. We'll be back next week. In the meantime,

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Speaker 1: you can find us on the Bloomberg Terminal, website, app

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00:27:23,840 --> 00:27:26,359
Speaker 1: or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more news

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00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 1: and analysis through the week from Bloomberg Economics, follow at

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Speaker 1: Economics on Twitter. You can also find me on at

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Speaker 1: my Stephanomics. The story in this episode was written and

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Speaker 1: reported by Swansea Afonso and Anniban nag. It was edited

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Speaker 1: by Bruce Douglas and produced by Magnus Hendrickson. Special thanks

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Speaker 1: to a Bushek Gupta, Christine Harper, and Nesserene Syria. Scott

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Speaker 1: Lammon is the executive producer of Stephanomics and the head

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Speaker 1: of Bloomberg Podcast is Francesca Levi bym By