WEBVTT - Esperanto with Andrew

0:00:01.720 --> 0:00:06.880
<v Speaker 1>Alz Media, Hello and welcome to It could happen here.

0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:10.640
<v Speaker 1>I want you to imagine a world where everyone shared

0:00:10.640 --> 0:00:15.040
<v Speaker 1>a second language, not because of imperial conquest, but out

0:00:15.080 --> 0:00:19.720
<v Speaker 1>of a shared desire for unity and understanding. That was

0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:23.919
<v Speaker 1>the dream behind Esperanto, a constructed language designed to be

0:00:23.960 --> 0:00:28.240
<v Speaker 1>the basis for global bilingualism. Long before I learned anything

0:00:28.240 --> 0:00:32.040
<v Speaker 1>about anarchism, I spent some time trying to learn Esperanto.

0:00:32.479 --> 0:00:34.840
<v Speaker 1>It has shown up on my dual lingo one day,

0:00:34.920 --> 0:00:37.640
<v Speaker 1>and it seems like such a fascinating and simple project

0:00:37.640 --> 0:00:41.360
<v Speaker 1>to pick up. I was enamored with the philosophy behind it,

0:00:41.440 --> 0:00:43.680
<v Speaker 1>so I generally spent a few months on and off

0:00:43.800 --> 0:00:46.680
<v Speaker 1>trying to learn it. I was probably a decade ago

0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:49.040
<v Speaker 1>at this point, so I don't remember too much about it,

0:00:49.520 --> 0:00:53.000
<v Speaker 1>but the connection was there. And it's really because I've

0:00:53.000 --> 0:00:56.160
<v Speaker 1>been exploring this topic for this episode that I ended

0:00:56.240 --> 0:00:58.120
<v Speaker 1>up going back and dabbling in some of it again.

0:00:59.040 --> 0:01:03.480
<v Speaker 1>I've learned recently actually somewhat of a connection between Esperanto

0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.560
<v Speaker 1>and anarchism, so I stayed the time to explore the

0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:11.880
<v Speaker 1>origins of Esperanto. It's anarchist connections, it's flaws, and its future.

0:01:12.640 --> 0:01:15.560
<v Speaker 1>My name is Andrew Siege and I'm here once again

0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:16.959
<v Speaker 1>with it's me.

0:01:17.040 --> 0:01:19.119
<v Speaker 2>It's James again. Very excited for this one.

0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:21.280
<v Speaker 1>Yes, you're familiar with Esperanto.

0:01:21.040 --> 0:01:24.320
<v Speaker 2>Right, yeah, very familiar I am. I wrote about it

0:01:24.319 --> 0:01:29.319
<v Speaker 2>a little bit in my first book and my PhD dissertation. Also,

0:01:29.680 --> 0:01:33.039
<v Speaker 2>the last living person to participate in the Popular Olympics,

0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:35.160
<v Speaker 2>which is what I wrote my book about, was an

0:01:35.280 --> 0:01:39.000
<v Speaker 2>Esperantis like. Part of the project of the Popular Front

0:01:39.200 --> 0:01:41.920
<v Speaker 2>in Catalonia was to bring people to diverstory sport, and

0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:44.280
<v Speaker 2>then Esperanto is going to be this thing that would,

0:01:44.560 --> 0:01:46.639
<v Speaker 2>as you mentioned, like bridge the gaps between people.

0:01:46.760 --> 0:01:50.240
<v Speaker 1>Right. Yes, it's a really inspiring project. And so I

0:01:50.280 --> 0:01:53.040
<v Speaker 1>know you're probably gonna know all this information, but I

0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:54.440
<v Speaker 1>do have to share it with the audience.

0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:59.640
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm excited. I never like really did full rundown Esperanto.

0:01:59.680 --> 0:02:01.880
<v Speaker 2>It just paid now, So howly shit that's called so

0:02:02.560 --> 0:02:03.040
<v Speaker 2>learn a lot.

0:02:03.480 --> 0:02:07.000
<v Speaker 1>Sure. So. Esperanto was first constructed in a little booklet

0:02:07.080 --> 0:02:12.200
<v Speaker 1>in eighteen eighty seven by Polish Jewish ophthalmologist el El Samonhoff.

0:02:12.760 --> 0:02:16.120
<v Speaker 1>According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the name itself comes from

0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:19.280
<v Speaker 1>the pseudonym he took on to publish the booklet. He

0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:24.680
<v Speaker 1>called himself doctorro Esperanto. Esperanto meaning one who hopes and

0:02:24.800 --> 0:02:28.440
<v Speaker 1>hope really analyzed the whole project. According to a BBC

0:02:28.600 --> 0:02:32.240
<v Speaker 1>article written by Jose Luis Benarredondo, he lived as a

0:02:32.240 --> 0:02:35.720
<v Speaker 1>Polish Jew in the multicultural Russian Empire in a time

0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:39.480
<v Speaker 1>rife with racial and national conflict. He was trying to

0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:43.080
<v Speaker 1>promote peace and understanding, and he saw an international language

0:02:43.240 --> 0:02:45.560
<v Speaker 1>as a ways to do that, with a flag of

0:02:45.639 --> 0:02:48.080
<v Speaker 1>green and white, the colors of hope and peace. For

0:02:48.160 --> 0:02:51.880
<v Speaker 1>his efforts, Zamenhoff himself was nominated fourteen times for the

0:02:51.919 --> 0:02:55.600
<v Speaker 1>Nobel Peace Prize. He genuine believed that if we all

0:02:55.720 --> 0:03:02.720
<v Speaker 1>shared a common second language quote education, ideals, convictions, aims

0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.160
<v Speaker 1>would be the same too, and all nations would be

0:03:05.240 --> 0:03:10.280
<v Speaker 1>united in a common brotherhood end quote. Esperanto was created

0:03:10.360 --> 0:03:13.320
<v Speaker 1>in a time when modernism was on the rise and

0:03:13.360 --> 0:03:16.480
<v Speaker 1>the idea of rationality and science was being used to

0:03:16.560 --> 0:03:20.280
<v Speaker 1>quote un quote optimize the world. When it was featured

0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.800
<v Speaker 1>in Paris's Exposition Universal in nineteen hundred, the language caught

0:03:24.840 --> 0:03:27.799
<v Speaker 1>on amongst the French intelligensia, who saw it as more

0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:32.040
<v Speaker 1>optimal than the messy and the logical realm of natural languages.

0:03:33.160 --> 0:03:36.400
<v Speaker 1>Because it was so easy, all words and sentences being

0:03:36.440 --> 0:03:39.160
<v Speaker 1>built from sixteen basic rules that could fit on a paper,

0:03:39.640 --> 0:03:42.880
<v Speaker 1>and the language lacked the confusing exceptions and special rules

0:03:42.960 --> 0:03:46.240
<v Speaker 1>or other languages, it was once seen as the language

0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.120
<v Speaker 1>of the future. Esperanto made its full fledged public debut

0:03:50.200 --> 0:03:54.320
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen oh five when seven Hoff published The Fundamental Esperanto,

0:03:54.720 --> 0:03:58.320
<v Speaker 1>which laid down the basic principles of languages structure and formation.

0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:03.920
<v Speaker 1>Esperanto designed to be simple, logical, and accessible, drawn from

0:04:03.920 --> 0:04:07.560
<v Speaker 1>the influence of Romance, Germanic, and Slavic languages and its construction.

0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.600
<v Speaker 1>The orthography is phonetic, so all the words are spelled

0:04:11.640 --> 0:04:15.400
<v Speaker 1>as pronounced, and the grammar is so straightforward. There's a

0:04:15.440 --> 0:04:21.320
<v Speaker 1>consistent word ending for nouns, pluralization, adjectives, and verbs. But

0:04:21.400 --> 0:04:25.320
<v Speaker 1>although simple, it can convey complexity. There's a lot of

0:04:25.360 --> 0:04:29.279
<v Speaker 1>suffixes you can add to give degrees of meaning, and

0:04:29.320 --> 0:04:32.960
<v Speaker 1>there's room for compound words too. It's European focus to

0:04:33.080 --> 0:04:35.960
<v Speaker 1>be the target of criticism later on, but it actually

0:04:36.040 --> 0:04:39.159
<v Speaker 1>ended up being picked up in some unusual places anyway.

0:04:40.440 --> 0:04:44.679
<v Speaker 1>Zamenhoff translated literature and wrote original verse, and after years

0:04:44.720 --> 0:04:47.719
<v Speaker 1>of effort, there were speakers to be found across Europe,

0:04:47.960 --> 0:04:50.680
<v Speaker 1>the Americas, China, and Japan.

0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:51.600
<v Speaker 2>Interesting.

0:04:52.200 --> 0:04:55.960
<v Speaker 1>By nineteen oh eight, the Universala Esperanto a Socio was founded,

0:04:56.200 --> 0:05:00.320
<v Speaker 1>and it can now find members in eighty three countries worldwide. Today,

0:05:00.320 --> 0:05:05.080
<v Speaker 1>there's also fifty national Esperanto associations and twenty two international

0:05:05.120 --> 0:05:09.200
<v Speaker 1>professional associations that use Esperanto. There's an annual World Esperanto

0:05:09.279 --> 0:05:13.000
<v Speaker 1>Congress and more than one hundred periodicals published in Esperanto.

0:05:13.920 --> 0:05:17.160
<v Speaker 1>Estimates range widely in terms of how many people speak

0:05:17.240 --> 0:05:20.760
<v Speaker 1>Esperanto today. They are apparently a handful of native speakers,

0:05:20.839 --> 0:05:24.600
<v Speaker 1>folks who are raised speaking Esperanto. Oh wow, yeah, it's

0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:25.799
<v Speaker 1>really really really cool.

0:05:26.000 --> 0:05:26.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:05:26.720 --> 0:05:30.520
<v Speaker 1>But L two speakers are somewhere between thirty eight thousand

0:05:30.720 --> 0:05:33.640
<v Speaker 1>l to being you know, second language speakers are somewhere

0:05:33.680 --> 0:05:38.400
<v Speaker 1>between thirty eight thousand to two million. According to Wildfith's

0:05:38.480 --> 0:05:42.440
<v Speaker 1>article on Esperanto and anarchism, there are tens of thousands

0:05:42.440 --> 0:05:46.839
<v Speaker 1>of books in Esperanto and several hundred, mostly small periodicals

0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:51.120
<v Speaker 1>that appear regularly. Partly a day passes about international meetings,

0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.800
<v Speaker 1>such as those of specialized organizations, conferences, youth get togethers, seminars,

0:05:55.839 --> 0:05:59.719
<v Speaker 1>group holidays, and regional meetings. There are several radio stations

0:05:59.720 --> 0:06:03.760
<v Speaker 1>that podcast programs in Esperanto, and Esperanto has even been

0:06:03.839 --> 0:06:07.080
<v Speaker 1>used by couples of different origins as a family language.

0:06:07.760 --> 0:06:11.120
<v Speaker 1>It's cool, funny enough. As with every language, even an

0:06:11.120 --> 0:06:15.880
<v Speaker 1>aspiring universal language, it has since had its offshoots. I

0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.080
<v Speaker 1>saw on Wikipedia that nearly a year after Salmonhoff's creation

0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:23.080
<v Speaker 1>of Esperanto, in eighteen eighty eight, Dutch author J. Brachmann

0:06:23.120 --> 0:06:26.520
<v Speaker 1>proposed a few changes to language, like combining the end

0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:30.560
<v Speaker 1>in for the adjective and adverb, change in conjugations, introducing

0:06:30.640 --> 0:06:33.479
<v Speaker 1>more Latin roots, getting rid of the diacritics, and so on.

0:06:34.040 --> 0:06:37.440
<v Speaker 1>This language would be called Mundolinko, and it was the

0:06:37.480 --> 0:06:42.280
<v Speaker 1>first of many offshoots from Esperanto proper. Even zalmon Hooff

0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:44.200
<v Speaker 1>would try to reform the language at one point in

0:06:44.240 --> 0:06:46.760
<v Speaker 1>eighteen ninety four, but it was rejected by the Esperanto

0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.640
<v Speaker 1>community and eventually even himself. These reforms would later be

0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:53.960
<v Speaker 1>used to develop Edo, another attempt at universal language, with

0:06:54.320 --> 0:06:57.800
<v Speaker 1>far less success. I also learned view Wikipedia there was

0:06:57.839 --> 0:07:01.840
<v Speaker 1>an attempt to make Esperanto more complex by introducing Cherokee

0:07:01.880 --> 0:07:06.599
<v Speaker 1>components called policepo created by a Native American activist named

0:07:06.680 --> 0:07:11.480
<v Speaker 1>Billy ray Walden. Esperanto speakers continue to play the language

0:07:11.640 --> 0:07:14.680
<v Speaker 1>in all sorts of ways. To this day. Esperanto is

0:07:14.760 --> 0:07:18.720
<v Speaker 1>an evolved in language and Samanhoff himself is honored as

0:07:18.800 --> 0:07:23.080
<v Speaker 1>part of this global Esperanto culture. They celebrate his birthday

0:07:23.160 --> 0:07:26.440
<v Speaker 1>the fifteenth of December. There are statues and streets and

0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.360
<v Speaker 1>plaques remembering him worldwide, and even an asteroid bears his name.

0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.720
<v Speaker 1>At one point, according to the BBC article, there was

0:07:33.760 --> 0:07:37.640
<v Speaker 1>an effort to establish an Esperanto speaking land called ami Kejo,

0:07:38.080 --> 0:07:40.600
<v Speaker 1>which would have been a three point five square kilometer

0:07:40.760 --> 0:07:46.760
<v Speaker 1>territory between the Netherlands, Germany and France. Yeah. Nice, three

0:07:46.800 --> 0:07:48.320
<v Speaker 1>point five square kilometers.

0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, not huge, Yeah, it's like how big. Well, I know,

0:07:52.600 --> 0:07:55.000
<v Speaker 2>we've got a few of those, like little ones in Europe, you.

0:07:55.000 --> 0:07:57.000
<v Speaker 1>Know, Yeah, a couple of micro estates. It could have

0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.800
<v Speaker 1>been another micro state, but the idea was very squashed

0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:01.760
<v Speaker 1>follow World War One.

0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:07.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I know. This SENATEAVI, the Spanish Anarchosynthicalist Union was

0:08:07.120 --> 0:08:11.440
<v Speaker 2>like in its first congress, like its foundational Congress. I

0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:13.800
<v Speaker 2>suppose they were like, and everyone has to everyone should

0:08:13.800 --> 0:08:15.960
<v Speaker 2>try and learn Esperanto, Like that was one of their

0:08:16.040 --> 0:08:20.080
<v Speaker 2>like the things that at the foundation of what became

0:08:20.160 --> 0:08:22.640
<v Speaker 2>probably the most powerful anarchist movement the world's ever seen.

0:08:22.680 --> 0:08:24.600
<v Speaker 2>They were like, also, this is a big thing.

0:08:24.960 --> 0:08:28.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yeah, Esperanto was really huge in the anarchist movement

0:08:28.360 --> 0:08:31.480
<v Speaker 1>at a certain point. Yeah, but we're going to get

0:08:31.520 --> 0:08:44.720
<v Speaker 1>to those connections soon enough. I wanted to bring up

0:08:44.760 --> 0:08:49.679
<v Speaker 1>this other interesting story. There was actually an effort by esperantists,

0:08:49.760 --> 0:08:52.960
<v Speaker 1>including a delegate from Iran, to get the language to

0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:56.480
<v Speaker 1>become the official language of the League of Nations. But

0:08:56.960 --> 0:08:59.880
<v Speaker 1>take one guess as to which country block that effort.

0:09:01.640 --> 0:09:05.200
<v Speaker 2>Was it one of the anglophone countries? No, oh, wow,

0:09:05.920 --> 0:09:06.400
<v Speaker 2>the French.

0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:07.400
<v Speaker 1>It was the French.

0:09:07.840 --> 0:09:11.480
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there is not a state more invested in its

0:09:11.559 --> 0:09:15.240
<v Speaker 2>language than France. Indeed, they have laws I think about,

0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.760
<v Speaker 2>like broadcasting music and dubbing films and things.

0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:24.600
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The French government seemingly hated Esperanto. At least according

0:09:24.640 --> 0:09:28.160
<v Speaker 1>to the article on imp of the Diverse blog site,

0:09:28.600 --> 0:09:32.480
<v Speaker 1>they blocked its study in universities and public schools, and

0:09:32.880 --> 0:09:37.240
<v Speaker 1>as the article quotes, the opponents directly quote. On September tenth,

0:09:37.360 --> 0:09:40.199
<v Speaker 1>nineteen twenty two, the New York Tribune ran a translation

0:09:40.960 --> 0:09:42.959
<v Speaker 1>of a piece by the editor in chief of the

0:09:43.080 --> 0:09:48.480
<v Speaker 1>Martin Stefan Lausanne miss Lasan spent half his editorial writing

0:09:48.520 --> 0:09:51.480
<v Speaker 1>about Esperanto. And I'm not going to do a French

0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.920
<v Speaker 1>accent for this section. But just imagine, like the most

0:09:54.960 --> 0:10:00.600
<v Speaker 1>French Frenchman reading this, that Finns or Albanians but such

0:10:00.600 --> 0:10:05.280
<v Speaker 1>a proper gander is comprehensible. Their dialect has no chance

0:10:05.320 --> 0:10:08.720
<v Speaker 1>of imposing itself on the universe. They need a second

0:10:08.800 --> 0:10:13.280
<v Speaker 1>language just as well Esperanto as any other. But that

0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:17.400
<v Speaker 1>French people or English or Germans could have let themselves

0:10:17.400 --> 0:10:22.400
<v Speaker 1>be allured by this linguistic bolsheviser that is far more extraordinary.

0:10:23.080 --> 0:10:26.400
<v Speaker 1>It is nevertheless a fact that Esperanto, which was born

0:10:26.480 --> 0:10:29.480
<v Speaker 1>twenty five years ago and ought to have died through ridicule,

0:10:30.000 --> 0:10:34.040
<v Speaker 1>continues to have disciples in Europe. Every year, in a

0:10:34.040 --> 0:10:36.960
<v Speaker 1>different capital they hold a congress at which they are

0:10:37.000 --> 0:10:39.720
<v Speaker 1>not very numerous, but where they make a great noise.

0:10:40.400 --> 0:10:43.200
<v Speaker 1>They get so excited that quite recently the Minister of

0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:46.040
<v Speaker 1>Public Instruction had to address a circular to all the

0:10:46.080 --> 0:10:50.439
<v Speaker 1>French educational resorts to warn them against the danger of Esperanto.

0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.200
<v Speaker 1>An article in the Washington Herald on that same day

0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:58.199
<v Speaker 1>explained the danger, at the least according to the Ministry

0:10:58.280 --> 0:11:02.160
<v Speaker 1>of Public Instruction. The reason for this order, according to

0:11:02.200 --> 0:11:04.840
<v Speaker 1>certain school teachers, is that teaching of a language as

0:11:04.840 --> 0:11:08.520
<v Speaker 1>easy as Esperanto endangers the existence of the French language

0:11:08.679 --> 0:11:12.160
<v Speaker 1>and thus the national solidarity of the country. They consent

0:11:12.360 --> 0:11:15.480
<v Speaker 1>that children will nationally take to an easy language is Esperanto,

0:11:15.960 --> 0:11:18.720
<v Speaker 1>and in that time French and English would perish, and

0:11:18.760 --> 0:11:22.840
<v Speaker 1>that the literary standard of the world would be debased. Furthermore,

0:11:23.240 --> 0:11:26.160
<v Speaker 1>they argue that a national language plays a predominant part

0:11:26.240 --> 0:11:29.840
<v Speaker 1>in maintaining national unity, and points to Poland and Lorraine

0:11:29.960 --> 0:11:34.200
<v Speaker 1>as examples. Esperanto is an artificial language of no real merit.

0:11:34.320 --> 0:11:37.240
<v Speaker 1>Right to one professor, it has no very definite origin,

0:11:37.640 --> 0:11:39.520
<v Speaker 1>and what it aims to draw the scattered people of

0:11:39.559 --> 0:11:43.080
<v Speaker 1>the world together? Does it doth rather tend to denationalization?

0:11:44.360 --> 0:11:44.800
<v Speaker 1>End quote.

0:11:45.920 --> 0:11:49.280
<v Speaker 2>They're not wrong, Like France is the language if you

0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.480
<v Speaker 2>read like a peasants into Frenchman is kind of the

0:11:51.480 --> 0:11:54.560
<v Speaker 2>classic work on like French nationalization, but like in order

0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.480
<v Speaker 2>to make people French, they did have to suppress like

0:11:57.600 --> 0:12:01.599
<v Speaker 2>Basque and Breton and Catalan and other languages, right, and

0:12:01.920 --> 0:12:04.160
<v Speaker 2>make people go to schools where they learned French and

0:12:04.200 --> 0:12:06.880
<v Speaker 2>conceived of themselves as French. As a result of that.

0:12:07.760 --> 0:12:12.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, their imposition of DaShan identity was perhaps among the

0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:16.040
<v Speaker 1>most successful in the world. Yeah, in terms of its

0:12:16.160 --> 0:12:18.960
<v Speaker 1>iliness and its consistent enforcement.

0:12:20.000 --> 0:12:24.000
<v Speaker 2>It shows like nations are always projects of the bourgeoisie, right, Like,

0:12:24.080 --> 0:12:26.280
<v Speaker 2>at least I would argue that, and so a lot

0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:30.079
<v Speaker 2>of other people. But like the French example is one

0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.480
<v Speaker 2>where we can see it more clearly than others. Like

0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.360
<v Speaker 2>it's a state and specifically like a certain class within

0:12:35.400 --> 0:12:40.280
<v Speaker 2>the state's project to enforce and continue to perpetuate this

0:12:40.400 --> 0:12:41.240
<v Speaker 2>narrative of nation.

0:12:42.640 --> 0:12:46.439
<v Speaker 1>And you know, they weren't the only enemies of Esperanto.

0:12:46.880 --> 0:12:49.800
<v Speaker 1>And do you know that's saying judge me by my enemies.

0:12:51.200 --> 0:12:52.360
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, who else have we got?

0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:58.120
<v Speaker 1>Nazi Germany, Francoist Spain and the Soviet Union also heated.

0:12:58.400 --> 0:13:00.760
<v Speaker 2>Esperanto gets cooler with every the.

0:13:00.760 --> 0:13:05.400
<v Speaker 1>Nazis, they were nationalists and the Zawonhoff was Jewish, so

0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:08.880
<v Speaker 1>his family was actually targeted and the language was banned

0:13:09.200 --> 0:13:12.240
<v Speaker 1>and Esperantists were targeted and put in camps during the Holocaust,

0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:14.680
<v Speaker 1>which is really tragic.

0:13:14.720 --> 0:13:15.520
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, pretty fucked.

0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:20.280
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, his whole family was heavily targeted by Nazi Germany.

0:13:20.800 --> 0:13:26.880
<v Speaker 1>Franco associated Esperanto with anti nationalism and anarchism, which true. Yeah,

0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:31.400
<v Speaker 1>he wasn't wrong, So it was targeted for a while. Yeah,

0:13:31.559 --> 0:13:36.760
<v Speaker 1>and the Soviets, while originally recognizing Esperantists, eventually reversed that

0:13:36.840 --> 0:13:40.920
<v Speaker 1>policy under Stalin during the Great Purge and executed exiled

0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.840
<v Speaker 1>or guvagh Esperantists. And as you can imagine, all that

0:13:45.920 --> 0:13:51.880
<v Speaker 1>repression all at once kind of killed Esperanto's momentum. Today,

0:13:51.960 --> 0:13:55.360
<v Speaker 1>despite its goal of being a truly international language, Esperanto's

0:13:55.400 --> 0:13:59.200
<v Speaker 1>global reatremain's une fun well. It has made some strides

0:13:59.240 --> 0:14:02.640
<v Speaker 1>in recent years, it's still underrepresented in many parts of

0:14:02.679 --> 0:14:06.320
<v Speaker 1>Africa and Asia. The majority of Esperanto speakers today are

0:14:06.360 --> 0:14:09.640
<v Speaker 1>in Europe. Those development outside of Europe deserves some attention,

0:14:10.160 --> 0:14:14.080
<v Speaker 1>as Esperanto manage to levermarque in China, Iran, Togo, and

0:14:14.120 --> 0:14:17.679
<v Speaker 1>the Democratic Republic of Congo. But the response to Esperanto

0:14:17.760 --> 0:14:20.440
<v Speaker 1>historically should give you an indication as to how anarchists

0:14:20.560 --> 0:14:25.080
<v Speaker 1>must have felt about Esperanto as an internationalist or anti

0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:29.040
<v Speaker 1>nationalist movement. Anarchism was very supportive of the Esperanto project.

0:14:29.600 --> 0:14:32.800
<v Speaker 1>When running through the timeline could to see Wilfirth's Esperanto

0:14:32.880 --> 0:14:36.480
<v Speaker 1>and Anarchism. One of the earliest anarchist Esperanto groups was

0:14:36.520 --> 0:14:39.440
<v Speaker 1>founded in Stockholm in nineteen oh five. The same year,

0:14:39.720 --> 0:14:42.120
<v Speaker 1>the anarchist Pull Up with a Lot founded the monthly

0:14:42.200 --> 0:14:47.240
<v Speaker 1>magazine Esperanto. Similar groups suonnimmersed in Bulgaria, China and other countries.

0:14:47.800 --> 0:14:52.200
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen oh six, anarchists anarchist Synicolis founded an international association,

0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:57.840
<v Speaker 1>Paco Libreco Peace Freedom, which published the Internacia Socia Review.

0:14:58.960 --> 0:15:02.920
<v Speaker 1>By nineteen ten, Paco Libireco merged with Esperantista Lawari Staro

0:15:03.240 --> 0:15:08.600
<v Speaker 1>to form Liberiga Stello star Liberation, strengthening anarchist Esperanto networks.

0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:12.720
<v Speaker 1>The nineteen oh seven International Anarchist Congress in Amsterdam formally

0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:17.400
<v Speaker 1>addressed their role of Esperanto in international communication. Subsequent anarchist

0:15:17.480 --> 0:15:21.040
<v Speaker 1>congresses continue to pass resolutions advocating for Esperanto's use within

0:15:21.080 --> 0:15:25.400
<v Speaker 1>the movement. By nineteen fourteen, these anarchists esperantist organizations had

0:15:25.400 --> 0:15:30.920
<v Speaker 1>published extensive revolutionary literature, including anarchist texts in Esperanto. Around

0:15:30.960 --> 0:15:35.320
<v Speaker 1>this time, correspondence between European and Japanese anarchists became more active,

0:15:35.800 --> 0:15:40.960
<v Speaker 1>facilitated by Esperanto. In Prague, Eugene Adam proposed the formation

0:15:41.120 --> 0:15:45.280
<v Speaker 1>of Sena Sisa Associo Tutmunda the SAT or the World

0:15:45.360 --> 0:15:51.800
<v Speaker 1>in National Association. Unlike other Esperanto associations, SAT rejected nationalism

0:15:52.040 --> 0:15:57.240
<v Speaker 1>wholesale and sought to create a transnational class conscious workers movement.

0:15:58.360 --> 0:16:01.040
<v Speaker 1>To quote why is there an Esperanto Workers Movement by

0:16:01.120 --> 0:16:04.880
<v Speaker 1>Gary Michel, SAT was not meant to usurp the role

0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.280
<v Speaker 1>of political parties by engaging in political struggles directly, but

0:16:08.480 --> 0:16:11.960
<v Speaker 1>was to be a cultural association engaged in workers education,

0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:14.880
<v Speaker 1>one that would help to break down national and ethnic

0:16:14.880 --> 0:16:18.920
<v Speaker 1>barriers between workers by involving them in practical collective activity,

0:16:19.640 --> 0:16:23.840
<v Speaker 1>bringing workers into contact, freeing them from the shackles of nationalism.

0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:28.080
<v Speaker 1>SAT's ideas, and especially the ideas of its a nationalist faction,

0:16:28.640 --> 0:16:30.880
<v Speaker 1>were an early statement of an idea that has more

0:16:30.920 --> 0:16:35.080
<v Speaker 1>recently come to be known as globalization from below. So

0:16:35.120 --> 0:16:38.280
<v Speaker 1>in August nineteen twenty one, seventy nine workers from fifteen

0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:42.880
<v Speaker 1>countries gathered in Prague to formally established SAT. By nineteen

0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 1>twenty nine to nineteen thirty, SAT had grown to six

0:16:46.480 --> 0:16:49.400
<v Speaker 1>five hundred and twenty four members across forty two countries,

0:16:49.760 --> 0:16:54.360
<v Speaker 1>reaching its peak influence. The use of Esperanto flourished in

0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:58.000
<v Speaker 1>German workers' movements between nineteen twenty and nineteen thirty three.

0:16:58.320 --> 0:17:01.480
<v Speaker 1>By nineteen thirty two, the Workers Esperanto League had four

0:17:01.560 --> 0:17:05.719
<v Speaker 1>thousand members, leading to Esperanto being called the Workers Latin.

0:17:06.560 --> 0:17:08.960
<v Speaker 1>But as you can imagine, this was not to last.

0:17:09.000 --> 0:17:12.840
<v Speaker 1>By the time Hitler came into power. The Scientific Anarchist

0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:16.159
<v Speaker 1>Library of the International Language or ISAB, was founded in

0:17:16.200 --> 0:17:19.760
<v Speaker 1>the USSR in nineteen twenty three, publishing anarchist works by

0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:23.840
<v Speaker 1>Kropotkin and a. Borivoi in Esperanto. This also would not

0:17:23.960 --> 0:17:27.960
<v Speaker 1>last the Great Purge. The Berlin group of anarchistyniclist Esperantis

0:17:28.080 --> 0:17:30.960
<v Speaker 1>creeated the second Congress of the International Workers Association in

0:17:31.000 --> 0:17:34.239
<v Speaker 1>Amsterdam in nineteen twenty five and reported that Esperanto had

0:17:34.240 --> 0:17:37.720
<v Speaker 1>become so integrated into their movement that an international libertarian

0:17:37.840 --> 0:17:42.359
<v Speaker 1>Esperantist organization had formed. This likely referred to the TLEs

0:17:42.880 --> 0:17:46.639
<v Speaker 1>the World League of Titless Esperantists, which later merged with SAT.

0:17:47.640 --> 0:17:52.159
<v Speaker 1>Esperanto was also popping off amongst anarchists and socialists in Korea, China,

0:17:52.200 --> 0:17:56.919
<v Speaker 1>and Japan. Liushifu, a key figure in Chinese anarchism, began

0:17:56.960 --> 0:18:00.800
<v Speaker 1>publishing La Vocho de la Popolo The Voice of the

0:18:00.800 --> 0:18:04.560
<v Speaker 1>People in nineteen thirteen, the first anarchist periodical in China.

0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:08.920
<v Speaker 1>His work relied heavily on information from Internacia Socier Review

0:18:09.400 --> 0:18:13.800
<v Speaker 1>and helped popularize esperanto in China. Japanese anarchists and socialists,

0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.920
<v Speaker 1>as I mentioned, were among the earliest esperantists in the country,

0:18:17.359 --> 0:18:22.960
<v Speaker 1>but faced heavy persecution and sadly between imperial Japan, Francoist Spain,

0:18:23.119 --> 0:18:26.640
<v Speaker 1>Nazi Germany, and Stalinist Russia. The rise of tatalitarian regimes

0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:30.679
<v Speaker 1>lead into World War II largely suppressed the anarchist esperanto movement.

0:18:31.520 --> 0:18:34.320
<v Speaker 1>After the war, the Paras Anarchist Esperanto group was the

0:18:34.359 --> 0:18:38.640
<v Speaker 1>first to resume organized work, launching the publication Sen Santano

0:18:38.800 --> 0:18:43.439
<v Speaker 1>in nineteen forty six. Most anarchist esperantists have since been

0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.600
<v Speaker 1>organized within SAT, with an anarchist faction maintaining its autonomy.

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.200
<v Speaker 1>In nineteen sixty nine, this faction began publishing the Liberal

0:18:51.520 --> 0:18:55.240
<v Speaker 1>Sana Bultano, later a day in the Liberate Sana Ligillo.

0:18:55.960 --> 0:18:59.359
<v Speaker 1>By nineteen ninety seven, SAT membership had dwindled to fewer

0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.879
<v Speaker 1>than fifteen one hundred members. The initial radical vision of

0:19:02.960 --> 0:19:06.280
<v Speaker 1>SAT was weakened by political shifts and the growing dominance

0:19:06.320 --> 0:19:09.600
<v Speaker 1>of English as a global lingua franca. The only separation

0:19:09.640 --> 0:19:13.159
<v Speaker 1>between SAT and mainstream Esperanto organizations was a response to

0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 1>bourgeois political neutrality, but it also contributed to its marginalization,

0:19:17.760 --> 0:19:20.879
<v Speaker 1>and today the anarchist Esperanto movement exists largely as a

0:19:20.960 --> 0:19:34.439
<v Speaker 1>niche within SAT. So what can we say about the

0:19:34.520 --> 0:19:38.760
<v Speaker 1>role of Esperanto today. Well, one of the more interesting

0:19:38.800 --> 0:19:41.520
<v Speaker 1>currents I found in the Esperanto community mentioned by Firth

0:19:41.960 --> 0:19:46.360
<v Speaker 1>is Raumismo, a philosophy named after the Finnish city of Rauma,

0:19:46.880 --> 0:19:51.320
<v Speaker 1>where a youth congress in nineteen eighty helped define this approach.

0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:56.600
<v Speaker 1>Braumismo views Esperanto speakers as a kind of linguistic diaspora,

0:19:57.080 --> 0:19:59.760
<v Speaker 1>a cultural group bound together by a shared language rather

0:19:59.800 --> 0:20:03.120
<v Speaker 1>than an national identity. Instead of focusing on making Esperanto

0:20:03.119 --> 0:20:07.080
<v Speaker 1>a universal second language, browingy storage embrace it as just

0:20:07.160 --> 0:20:11.640
<v Speaker 1>one language among many, valuing its use in literature, culture

0:20:11.840 --> 0:20:17.520
<v Speaker 1>and everyday communication without any grand ideological ambitions. But it's possible, Esperanto,

0:20:17.480 --> 0:20:19.720
<v Speaker 1>who can still play a role in facilities in exchange

0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:23.520
<v Speaker 1>and collaboration between people of different linguistic backgrounds. A German

0:20:23.560 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 1>anarchist once lamented the barriers international understanding, quoted in Food's article,

0:20:28.920 --> 0:20:31.600
<v Speaker 1>more or less in isolation from one another, we work

0:20:31.680 --> 0:20:35.200
<v Speaker 1>and fight without engaging in exchange about our victories and defeats,

0:20:35.359 --> 0:20:39.000
<v Speaker 1>and with thoughts supporting and encouraging one another. Intensifying contact

0:20:39.000 --> 0:20:41.399
<v Speaker 1>above the regional level with people having similar ideas and

0:20:41.440 --> 0:20:44.399
<v Speaker 1>aims should be an important component of our work in

0:20:44.480 --> 0:20:49.520
<v Speaker 1>order to make effective, active solidarity possible. And that's the trouble.

0:20:49.560 --> 0:20:55.040
<v Speaker 1>Even today. Linguistic barriers hinder international cooperation. Groups struggle to

0:20:55.080 --> 0:21:01.199
<v Speaker 1>maintain foreign language correspondence, organize multilingual meetings, or find interpreters. Instead,

0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:04.320
<v Speaker 1>communication tends to rely on chance. You know someone in

0:21:04.359 --> 0:21:07.440
<v Speaker 1>a group happens to speak a certain language that determines

0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:10.720
<v Speaker 1>who they can connect with. But when those key individuals

0:21:10.800 --> 0:21:14.480
<v Speaker 1>move on, those connections can have fallen apart. So I

0:21:14.480 --> 0:21:17.199
<v Speaker 1>get the appeal, I mean, wouldn't it be beneficial for

0:21:17.240 --> 0:21:20.200
<v Speaker 1>these movements and for any interest group working across language

0:21:20.240 --> 0:21:23.440
<v Speaker 1>barriers to have a relatively easy to learn, politically neutral

0:21:23.520 --> 0:21:27.600
<v Speaker 1>means of communication. Major languages like English, Spanish or French

0:21:27.640 --> 0:21:30.919
<v Speaker 1>don't fully solve the problem, as they come with historical

0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:35.760
<v Speaker 1>baggage and imbalances influency levels. Esperanto, on the other hand,

0:21:35.920 --> 0:21:39.639
<v Speaker 1>provides a more equitable solution because everybody is from this

0:21:39.760 --> 0:21:42.440
<v Speaker 1>starts and from the same point. Since it isn't tied

0:21:42.480 --> 0:21:45.719
<v Speaker 1>to any one nation, it avoids the poodynamics that arise

0:21:45.760 --> 0:21:48.679
<v Speaker 1>when non native speakers must conform to the linguistic norms

0:21:48.680 --> 0:21:53.119
<v Speaker 1>of dominant cultures. Unlike English, which often privileges native speakers

0:21:53.160 --> 0:21:57.120
<v Speaker 1>and places others as perpetual learners, Esperanto fosters a more

0:21:57.240 --> 0:22:02.000
<v Speaker 1>level playin field English like a global linguid franca right now,

0:22:02.480 --> 0:22:04.959
<v Speaker 1>but a lot of people leave school without ever developing

0:22:04.960 --> 0:22:09.000
<v Speaker 1>an effluency to navigate an English dominated world, and English

0:22:09.200 --> 0:22:14.359
<v Speaker 1>is not the easiest language to learn. Esperanto, regardless of

0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:18.920
<v Speaker 1>weather ever, becomes a global standard, offers an alternative path.

0:22:19.680 --> 0:22:23.480
<v Speaker 1>It can help people overcome language learning anxieties, as particularly

0:22:23.560 --> 0:22:27.240
<v Speaker 1>those who feel disempowered by additional educational systems, and it

0:22:27.280 --> 0:22:30.880
<v Speaker 1>can inspire an interest in language itself. If you've ever

0:22:30.920 --> 0:22:33.280
<v Speaker 1>met an Esperanto speaker, you know that they are very

0:22:33.800 --> 0:22:38.480
<v Speaker 1>passionate about linguistics. More often than not, many of the

0:22:38.560 --> 0:22:42.160
<v Speaker 1>speakers go on to study linguistics, language politics, or even

0:22:42.240 --> 0:22:45.600
<v Speaker 1>lesser known languages. It's also a great way to develop

0:22:45.640 --> 0:22:51.200
<v Speaker 1>translation skills in a friendly, cooperative environment. For monolingual English speakers,

0:22:51.760 --> 0:22:55.440
<v Speaker 1>using Esperanto can be an eye opening experience. It puts

0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:57.400
<v Speaker 1>them the shoes of those who never got to rely

0:22:57.480 --> 0:23:01.199
<v Speaker 1>on their native language in international settings. Rather than view

0:23:01.200 --> 0:23:04.480
<v Speaker 1>an Esperanto as a competitor to other languages, perhaps a

0:23:04.480 --> 0:23:06.800
<v Speaker 1>more productive approach is to see it as a tool

0:23:06.880 --> 0:23:11.920
<v Speaker 1>for promoting multilingualism, cultural exchange, and a more cosmopolitan mindset

0:23:12.359 --> 0:23:15.720
<v Speaker 1>within the Esperanto speaking The community. Opinions and its future

0:23:15.840 --> 0:23:19.240
<v Speaker 1>vary widely, but one thing is clear. The question of

0:23:19.280 --> 0:23:22.480
<v Speaker 1>how we communicate a cross linguistic divides is still very

0:23:22.520 --> 0:23:27.640
<v Speaker 1>much alive, and Esperanto offers but one possible answer. However,

0:23:27.720 --> 0:23:31.640
<v Speaker 1>as I alluded to Ilier, Esperanto is not without its critiques,

0:23:31.840 --> 0:23:34.520
<v Speaker 1>as covered by Firth, Let's start with one of the

0:23:34.560 --> 0:23:39.240
<v Speaker 1>most frequent critiques, Esperanto is an artificial language. Unlike the

0:23:39.240 --> 0:23:43.160
<v Speaker 1>so called natural languages, which evolved organically over time, Esperanto

0:23:43.240 --> 0:23:47.359
<v Speaker 1>is deliberately constructed. But here's the thing. Since the rise

0:23:47.400 --> 0:23:50.760
<v Speaker 1>of the nation state, the line between natural and artificial

0:23:50.800 --> 0:23:56.160
<v Speaker 1>languages has become increasingly blurry. Many national languages, like standard

0:23:56.160 --> 0:24:00.440
<v Speaker 1>German or Standard French, have been shaped by deliberate standardization,

0:24:01.080 --> 0:24:06.040
<v Speaker 1>legal regulations, and media influence. In that sense, every language

0:24:06.080 --> 0:24:10.840
<v Speaker 1>is to some degree engineered. Authors, storytellers, and ordinary speakers

0:24:10.880 --> 0:24:15.240
<v Speaker 1>continuously influenced language development, meaning that Esperanto is not as different.

0:24:15.359 --> 0:24:19.280
<v Speaker 1>After all, it does continue to evolve. And here's where

0:24:19.320 --> 0:24:22.920
<v Speaker 1>I think. James Scott had a rather negative characterization of

0:24:23.040 --> 0:24:26.760
<v Speaker 1>Esperanto as a purely high modernist endeavor, as though all

0:24:26.880 --> 0:24:31.040
<v Speaker 1>esperandos sought to make Esperanto the official international language in

0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:33.520
<v Speaker 1>se Meca State. He claims that Esperanto was created to

0:24:33.560 --> 0:24:37.159
<v Speaker 1>replace the dialects and vernaculars of Europe. But such was

0:24:37.200 --> 0:24:39.840
<v Speaker 1>never the case. It was always meant to be a

0:24:39.920 --> 0:24:43.640
<v Speaker 1>language used to facilitate communication. There was more than one

0:24:43.680 --> 0:24:46.800
<v Speaker 1>motivation of Esperando's use, and boil in such an exercise

0:24:46.840 --> 0:24:49.399
<v Speaker 1>and human creativity, and attempted a connection down to just

0:24:49.680 --> 0:24:54.760
<v Speaker 1>that status focus to me seems needlessly reductive. He also

0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:57.800
<v Speaker 1>calls it quote an exceptionally thin language without any of

0:24:57.840 --> 0:25:02.199
<v Speaker 1>the resonances, connotations ready metaphor literatures, oral histories, idioms, and

0:25:02.200 --> 0:25:05.600
<v Speaker 1>traditions of practical use that any social embedded language already

0:25:05.640 --> 0:25:09.119
<v Speaker 1>had end quote, which may be true when I began,

0:25:09.840 --> 0:25:12.440
<v Speaker 1>but it's certainly not true now was over a century

0:25:12.520 --> 0:25:13.800
<v Speaker 1>of use and evolution.

0:25:14.760 --> 0:25:16.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:25:16.359 --> 0:25:20.200
<v Speaker 1>His analogies between Esperanto and plant cities also missed the

0:25:20.240 --> 0:25:23.280
<v Speaker 1>mark for me, as Esperanto has clearly operated as a

0:25:23.280 --> 0:25:26.679
<v Speaker 1>self organized and grassroots movement for most of its history

0:25:27.440 --> 0:25:30.000
<v Speaker 1>and has never really received the back end of states

0:25:30.160 --> 0:25:31.040
<v Speaker 1>or their enforcement.

0:25:31.560 --> 0:25:34.400
<v Speaker 2>It's a weird angle from Scott because normally he'd advocate

0:25:34.440 --> 0:25:37.040
<v Speaker 2>for like what he calls like the anarchist squint right

0:25:37.280 --> 0:25:41.679
<v Speaker 2>like in seeing history through a perspective of anarchism, I

0:25:41.720 --> 0:25:44.480
<v Speaker 2>guess like an anarchist lens, and I feel like, exactly

0:25:44.560 --> 0:25:48.920
<v Speaker 2>this is very applicable with Esperanto, the only language which

0:25:48.960 --> 0:25:53.120
<v Speaker 2>isn't inherently tied to any state or nation or ethnicity.

0:25:53.800 --> 0:25:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Exactly when I saw that, I remember reading seeing like

0:25:57.520 --> 0:26:00.199
<v Speaker 1>the States some years ago and I've already lost to that,

0:26:00.640 --> 0:26:02.440
<v Speaker 1>But in doing the research for this, I ended up

0:26:02.920 --> 0:26:06.800
<v Speaker 1>stumbling upon it again and I was like, h after

0:26:06.840 --> 0:26:08.840
<v Speaker 1>reading the history, it's like this wasn't quite accurate.

0:26:09.400 --> 0:26:12.880
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, yeah, that's about it. Yeah, generally like Scott.

0:26:12.720 --> 0:26:13.280
<v Speaker 1>Me as well.

0:26:13.960 --> 0:26:18.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, recently some listeners very kindly. James Scott passed away

0:26:18.720 --> 0:26:20.960
<v Speaker 2>out of this year, as I'm sure you know, I do, yes,

0:26:21.440 --> 0:26:24.719
<v Speaker 2>But his library was donated to a local second hand

0:26:24.800 --> 0:26:27.879
<v Speaker 2>bookshop and some folks that I asked online and they

0:26:27.920 --> 0:26:30.040
<v Speaker 2>went and got me some books and sent them, which

0:26:30.080 --> 0:26:32.040
<v Speaker 2>was really kind. So I have some of his books now.

0:26:32.200 --> 0:26:32.960
<v Speaker 1>Oh that's nice.

0:26:33.280 --> 0:26:34.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:26:34.200 --> 0:26:38.119
<v Speaker 1>There's another common claim about Esperanto, which is that it's Eurocentric,

0:26:38.359 --> 0:26:43.480
<v Speaker 1>right and linguistically, there's some truth to this. Esperanto originated

0:26:43.560 --> 0:26:47.480
<v Speaker 1>in Eastern Europe, and it still carries structural elements to example,

0:26:47.560 --> 0:26:51.920
<v Speaker 1>Indo European languages. The majority of Esperanto speakers today are European,

0:26:52.320 --> 0:26:56.600
<v Speaker 1>and its vocabulary is largely drawn from European languages. Whoever,

0:26:56.960 --> 0:27:00.840
<v Speaker 1>critics who make this argument often suggest alternatives like English

0:27:00.960 --> 0:27:04.320
<v Speaker 1>or Spanish languages that are just as if not more

0:27:04.359 --> 0:27:08.639
<v Speaker 1>e're centric in the historical and political reach. Esperanto, in contrast,

0:27:08.640 --> 0:27:11.720
<v Speaker 1>has evolved through influence from non European languages as well,

0:27:12.080 --> 0:27:15.200
<v Speaker 1>particularly through its development in China and Japan. It's a

0:27:15.240 --> 0:27:18.399
<v Speaker 1>glassative word formation, a feature more common in languages like

0:27:18.400 --> 0:27:22.240
<v Speaker 1>Turkish or Japanese, and what some call the Hungarian period

0:27:22.320 --> 0:27:27.119
<v Speaker 1>of Esperanto's history. So while Esperanto has European roots, its

0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:30.359
<v Speaker 1>global evolution challenges the idea that it is exclusively European

0:27:30.560 --> 0:27:36.320
<v Speaker 1>in character. Another critique is that Esperanto is sexist. The

0:27:36.440 --> 0:27:39.479
<v Speaker 1>argument goes that because feminine forms are typically created by

0:27:39.480 --> 0:27:43.800
<v Speaker 1>adding in to a base form like laboristo worker becoming

0:27:43.880 --> 0:27:48.720
<v Speaker 1>Labrestino female worker, the language assumes masculinity as a default,

0:27:49.280 --> 0:27:52.239
<v Speaker 1>and while this is a valid concern, Esperanto differs from

0:27:52.240 --> 0:27:55.200
<v Speaker 1>any European languages in a key way. It is not

0:27:55.359 --> 0:27:59.880
<v Speaker 1>assigned grammatical gender to inanimate objects. A chair isn't arbitrarily

0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:03.600
<v Speaker 1>feminine like in French or masculine like in German. However,

0:28:03.760 --> 0:28:07.240
<v Speaker 1>in practice, gender bias can still creep in the basic

0:28:07.280 --> 0:28:10.359
<v Speaker 1>form of noun is often assumed to be masculine, even

0:28:10.359 --> 0:28:14.359
<v Speaker 1>though Esperanto allows for explicitly male forms as well, like

0:28:14.400 --> 0:28:18.720
<v Speaker 1>in any language, reducing linguistic sexism in Esperanto requires conscious

0:28:18.760 --> 0:28:20.840
<v Speaker 1>effort in how people actually use it.

0:28:21.400 --> 0:28:24.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, that's an interesting one. Like we see this in

0:28:24.280 --> 0:28:27.119
<v Speaker 2>Spanish too, write like with attempts to create like gender

0:28:27.160 --> 0:28:31.520
<v Speaker 2>neutral forms, they presumptive masculine or if you're addressing a

0:28:31.560 --> 0:28:35.320
<v Speaker 2>mixed gender group then you would use the masculine. But

0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:38.400
<v Speaker 2>like people who are first language Spanish speakers can correct me.

0:28:38.520 --> 0:28:41.400
<v Speaker 2>I'm sure you will on the subreddit if you want to. So,

0:28:41.600 --> 0:28:44.360
<v Speaker 2>like when I hear in English language media it's referred

0:28:44.400 --> 0:28:47.880
<v Speaker 2>to as latinx. But like that's kind of a word

0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:50.280
<v Speaker 2>that I struggle to say in Spanish, like Latin eki

0:28:50.520 --> 0:28:53.160
<v Speaker 2>or like is it latiniques, And so there's this very

0:28:53.280 --> 0:28:58.760
<v Speaker 2>kind of clumsy gender neutral form which seems to be

0:28:59.080 --> 0:29:00.680
<v Speaker 2>easier to say in English. Spanish.

0:29:00.880 --> 0:29:06.640
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I've seen Latin used in some circles. Yeah, Latine, latine.

0:29:07.040 --> 0:29:10.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, when I speak to non binary people in Spanish,

0:29:10.280 --> 0:29:14.440
<v Speaker 2>that's what they prefer to use. Of this relatively small

0:29:14.440 --> 0:29:17.240
<v Speaker 2>sample size, given that there are probably millions of non

0:29:17.280 --> 0:29:20.000
<v Speaker 2>binary Spanish speaking people, I haven't obviously spoken to all

0:29:20.080 --> 0:29:23.120
<v Speaker 2>or most of them, but like it's very interesting to

0:29:23.160 --> 0:29:25.440
<v Speaker 2>see this like outside critique of the language, which seems

0:29:25.440 --> 0:29:28.760
<v Speaker 2>to also ignore an inside movement within people who are

0:29:28.760 --> 0:29:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Spanish first language speakers to create a organic, like gender

0:29:33.400 --> 0:29:36.480
<v Speaker 2>neutral form, which could also happen in any language. Right Like,

0:29:37.400 --> 0:29:40.280
<v Speaker 2>just because Esperanto has a certain form doesn't mean that

0:29:40.320 --> 0:29:43.440
<v Speaker 2>people within that language who don't feel represented by them

0:29:43.440 --> 0:29:47.600
<v Speaker 2>couldn't create forms within that language that better represent them exactly.

0:29:47.640 --> 0:29:49.800
<v Speaker 2>And it's easier because you don't have like a government

0:29:49.920 --> 0:29:53.240
<v Speaker 2>telling you you can't use it or whatever exactly exactly.

0:29:53.360 --> 0:29:56.959
<v Speaker 1>Esperanto is and continues to be a grassroots movement, and

0:29:57.440 --> 0:29:59.440
<v Speaker 1>that has actually been a subject of critique for some.

0:30:00.160 --> 0:30:02.280
<v Speaker 1>You know, perhaps one of the biggest critiques for Esperando

0:30:02.440 --> 0:30:04.840
<v Speaker 1>is that it never achieved its original goal of becoming

0:30:04.880 --> 0:30:09.400
<v Speaker 1>a universal second language. Zamenhoffit's creator, envisioned a world where

0:30:09.480 --> 0:30:14.440
<v Speaker 1>Esperanto would bridge linguistic divides, but for many learnar language

0:30:14.480 --> 0:30:18.960
<v Speaker 1>that relatively few people spoke simply wasn't practical. But the

0:30:19.040 --> 0:30:22.680
<v Speaker 1>rise of the Internet changed the game for Esperanto. What

0:30:22.880 --> 0:30:25.200
<v Speaker 1>was once difficult to learn and use daily has become

0:30:25.320 --> 0:30:28.600
<v Speaker 1>far more accessible. For example, Esperanto is actually one of

0:30:28.600 --> 0:30:33.240
<v Speaker 1>the most overrepresented languages on the Internet. The Esperanto Wikipedia

0:30:33.400 --> 0:30:36.640
<v Speaker 1>has around two hundred and forty thousand articles, putting it

0:30:36.680 --> 0:30:38.960
<v Speaker 1>in the same league as languages spoken by tens of

0:30:39.000 --> 0:30:43.560
<v Speaker 1>millions of people, like Turkish and Korean. Google and Facebook

0:30:43.600 --> 0:30:46.640
<v Speaker 1>have offered Esperanto versions of their platforms for years, and

0:30:46.720 --> 0:30:49.680
<v Speaker 1>language learning services like due Lingo have helped introduce it

0:30:49.680 --> 0:30:53.360
<v Speaker 1>to a new generation of learners like myself. In fact,

0:30:53.440 --> 0:30:55.880
<v Speaker 1>the people who developed Esperanto courses for du Lingo did

0:30:55.960 --> 0:30:59.640
<v Speaker 1>so voluntarily, simply because they believed in the languages potential.

0:31:00.840 --> 0:31:04.400
<v Speaker 1>Esperanto has fostered a unique online community, and there's even

0:31:04.400 --> 0:31:08.720
<v Speaker 1>a free hospitality network called passporta Servo where Esperanto speakers

0:31:08.760 --> 0:31:12.120
<v Speaker 1>can stay with each other around the world, no money required,

0:31:12.680 --> 0:31:16.000
<v Speaker 1>just a shared language and a common philosophy of global connection.

0:31:17.040 --> 0:31:21.000
<v Speaker 1>Not everyone learns Esperanto for the same reasons. Some people

0:31:21.040 --> 0:31:24.600
<v Speaker 1>seek intellectual challenge, some want a sense of unique community,

0:31:24.920 --> 0:31:28.640
<v Speaker 1>and others are drawn to its political neutrality. As communications

0:31:28.680 --> 0:31:32.280
<v Speaker 1>lecturer Sara Marino points out in the BBC article, people

0:31:32.280 --> 0:31:36.680
<v Speaker 1>engage in Esperanto for many different motivations, whether it's personal fulfillment,

0:31:37.040 --> 0:31:40.880
<v Speaker 1>social inclusion, civic engagement, or just the simple joy of

0:31:40.960 --> 0:31:44.120
<v Speaker 1>learning a new language. It's important and not to reduce

0:31:44.240 --> 0:31:48.120
<v Speaker 1>Esperanto learners to stereotype. Their reasons for participating are as

0:31:48.160 --> 0:31:54.200
<v Speaker 1>diverse as the language itself. So where does Esperanto stand today?

0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:57.360
<v Speaker 1>It may never replace English as the global lingua franca,

0:31:58.080 --> 0:32:01.360
<v Speaker 1>but perhaps there was never the point. Instead, it serves

0:32:01.440 --> 0:32:06.040
<v Speaker 1>us a tool for promoting bilingualism, foster and cross cultural connections,

0:32:06.080 --> 0:32:11.080
<v Speaker 1>and encouraging people to think differently about language itself. And

0:32:11.120 --> 0:32:15.440
<v Speaker 1>I think that is worthy of Atoinner Award. That's what

0:32:15.480 --> 0:32:19.200
<v Speaker 1>I have for today. All power to all the people. Peace.

0:32:22.200 --> 0:32:24.680
<v Speaker 2>It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media.

0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:27.920
<v Speaker 1>For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

0:32:28.000 --> 0:32:31.600
<v Speaker 1>Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app,

0:32:31.680 --> 0:32:35.240
<v Speaker 1>Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can

0:32:35.280 --> 0:32:36.920
<v Speaker 1>now find sources for it could Happen Here.

0:32:36.920 --> 0:32:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Listened directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.