1 00:00:01,720 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Alz Media, Hello and welcome to It could happen here. 2 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,640 Speaker 1: I want you to imagine a world where everyone shared 3 00:00:10,640 --> 00:00:15,040 Speaker 1: a second language, not because of imperial conquest, but out 4 00:00:15,080 --> 00:00:19,720 Speaker 1: of a shared desire for unity and understanding. That was 5 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,919 Speaker 1: the dream behind Esperanto, a constructed language designed to be 6 00:00:23,960 --> 00:00:28,240 Speaker 1: the basis for global bilingualism. Long before I learned anything 7 00:00:28,240 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: about anarchism, I spent some time trying to learn Esperanto. 8 00:00:32,479 --> 00:00:34,840 Speaker 1: It has shown up on my dual lingo one day, 9 00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:37,640 Speaker 1: and it seems like such a fascinating and simple project 10 00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:41,360 Speaker 1: to pick up. I was enamored with the philosophy behind it, 11 00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:43,680 Speaker 1: so I generally spent a few months on and off 12 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:46,680 Speaker 1: trying to learn it. I was probably a decade ago 13 00:00:46,720 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: at this point, so I don't remember too much about it, 14 00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:53,000 Speaker 1: but the connection was there. And it's really because I've 15 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:56,160 Speaker 1: been exploring this topic for this episode that I ended 16 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: up going back and dabbling in some of it again. 17 00:00:59,040 --> 00:01:03,480 Speaker 1: I've learned recently actually somewhat of a connection between Esperanto 18 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,560 Speaker 1: and anarchism, so I stayed the time to explore the 19 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:11,880 Speaker 1: origins of Esperanto. It's anarchist connections, it's flaws, and its future. 20 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,560 Speaker 1: My name is Andrew Siege and I'm here once again 21 00:01:15,959 --> 00:01:16,959 Speaker 1: with it's me. 22 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:19,119 Speaker 2: It's James again. Very excited for this one. 23 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:21,280 Speaker 1: Yes, you're familiar with Esperanto. 24 00:01:21,040 --> 00:01:24,320 Speaker 2: Right, yeah, very familiar I am. I wrote about it 25 00:01:24,319 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: a little bit in my first book and my PhD dissertation. Also, 26 00:01:29,680 --> 00:01:33,039 Speaker 2: the last living person to participate in the Popular Olympics, 27 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,160 Speaker 2: which is what I wrote my book about, was an 28 00:01:35,280 --> 00:01:39,000 Speaker 2: Esperantis like. Part of the project of the Popular Front 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:41,920 Speaker 2: in Catalonia was to bring people to diverstory sport, and 30 00:01:41,959 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 2: then Esperanto is going to be this thing that would, 31 00:01:44,560 --> 00:01:46,639 Speaker 2: as you mentioned, like bridge the gaps between people. 32 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: Right. Yes, it's a really inspiring project. And so I 33 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,040 Speaker 1: know you're probably gonna know all this information, but I 34 00:01:53,080 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: do have to share it with the audience. 35 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:59,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm excited. I never like really did full rundown Esperanto. 36 00:01:59,680 --> 00:02:01,880 Speaker 2: It just paid now, So howly shit that's called so 37 00:02:02,560 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: learn a lot. 38 00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 1: Sure. So. Esperanto was first constructed in a little booklet 39 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:12,200 Speaker 1: in eighteen eighty seven by Polish Jewish ophthalmologist el El Samonhoff. 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:16,120 Speaker 1: According to the Encyclopedia Britannica, the name itself comes from 41 00:02:16,120 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 1: the pseudonym he took on to publish the booklet. He 42 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 1: called himself doctorro Esperanto. Esperanto meaning one who hopes and 43 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: hope really analyzed the whole project. According to a BBC 44 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:32,240 Speaker 1: article written by Jose Luis Benarredondo, he lived as a 45 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,720 Speaker 1: Polish Jew in the multicultural Russian Empire in a time 46 00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,480 Speaker 1: rife with racial and national conflict. He was trying to 47 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 1: promote peace and understanding, and he saw an international language 48 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 1: as a ways to do that, with a flag of 49 00:02:45,639 --> 00:02:48,080 Speaker 1: green and white, the colors of hope and peace. For 50 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:51,880 Speaker 1: his efforts, Zamenhoff himself was nominated fourteen times for the 51 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,600 Speaker 1: Nobel Peace Prize. He genuine believed that if we all 52 00:02:55,720 --> 00:03:02,720 Speaker 1: shared a common second language quote education, ideals, convictions, aims 53 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: would be the same too, and all nations would be 54 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:10,280 Speaker 1: united in a common brotherhood end quote. Esperanto was created 55 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,320 Speaker 1: in a time when modernism was on the rise and 56 00:03:13,360 --> 00:03:16,480 Speaker 1: the idea of rationality and science was being used to 57 00:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,280 Speaker 1: quote un quote optimize the world. When it was featured 58 00:03:20,320 --> 00:03:24,800 Speaker 1: in Paris's Exposition Universal in nineteen hundred, the language caught 59 00:03:24,840 --> 00:03:27,799 Speaker 1: on amongst the French intelligensia, who saw it as more 60 00:03:27,840 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: optimal than the messy and the logical realm of natural languages. 61 00:03:33,160 --> 00:03:36,400 Speaker 1: Because it was so easy, all words and sentences being 62 00:03:36,440 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: built from sixteen basic rules that could fit on a paper, 63 00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:42,880 Speaker 1: and the language lacked the confusing exceptions and special rules 64 00:03:42,960 --> 00:03:46,240 Speaker 1: or other languages, it was once seen as the language 65 00:03:46,360 --> 00:03:50,120 Speaker 1: of the future. Esperanto made its full fledged public debut 66 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:54,320 Speaker 1: in nineteen oh five when seven Hoff published The Fundamental Esperanto, 67 00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:58,320 Speaker 1: which laid down the basic principles of languages structure and formation. 68 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: Esperanto designed to be simple, logical, and accessible, drawn from 69 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: the influence of Romance, Germanic, and Slavic languages and its construction. 70 00:04:08,480 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: The orthography is phonetic, so all the words are spelled 71 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:15,400 Speaker 1: as pronounced, and the grammar is so straightforward. There's a 72 00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: consistent word ending for nouns, pluralization, adjectives, and verbs. But 73 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:25,320 Speaker 1: although simple, it can convey complexity. There's a lot of 74 00:04:25,360 --> 00:04:29,279 Speaker 1: suffixes you can add to give degrees of meaning, and 75 00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:32,960 Speaker 1: there's room for compound words too. It's European focus to 76 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:35,960 Speaker 1: be the target of criticism later on, but it actually 77 00:04:36,040 --> 00:04:39,159 Speaker 1: ended up being picked up in some unusual places anyway. 78 00:04:40,440 --> 00:04:44,679 Speaker 1: Zamenhoff translated literature and wrote original verse, and after years 79 00:04:44,720 --> 00:04:47,719 Speaker 1: of effort, there were speakers to be found across Europe, 80 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,680 Speaker 1: the Americas, China, and Japan. 81 00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:51,600 Speaker 2: Interesting. 82 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: By nineteen oh eight, the Universala Esperanto a Socio was founded, 83 00:04:56,200 --> 00:05:00,320 Speaker 1: and it can now find members in eighty three countries worldwide. Today, 84 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:05,080 Speaker 1: there's also fifty national Esperanto associations and twenty two international 85 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:09,200 Speaker 1: professional associations that use Esperanto. There's an annual World Esperanto 86 00:05:09,279 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 1: Congress and more than one hundred periodicals published in Esperanto. 87 00:05:13,920 --> 00:05:17,160 Speaker 1: Estimates range widely in terms of how many people speak 88 00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,760 Speaker 1: Esperanto today. They are apparently a handful of native speakers, 89 00:05:20,839 --> 00:05:24,600 Speaker 1: folks who are raised speaking Esperanto. Oh wow, yeah, it's 90 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:25,799 Speaker 1: really really really cool. 91 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. 92 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,520 Speaker 1: But L two speakers are somewhere between thirty eight thousand 93 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 1: l to being you know, second language speakers are somewhere 94 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:38,400 Speaker 1: between thirty eight thousand to two million. According to Wildfith's 95 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 1: article on Esperanto and anarchism, there are tens of thousands 96 00:05:42,440 --> 00:05:46,839 Speaker 1: of books in Esperanto and several hundred, mostly small periodicals 97 00:05:46,880 --> 00:05:51,120 Speaker 1: that appear regularly. Partly a day passes about international meetings, 98 00:05:51,200 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: such as those of specialized organizations, conferences, youth get togethers, seminars, 99 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 1: group holidays, and regional meetings. There are several radio stations 100 00:05:59,720 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: that podcast programs in Esperanto, and Esperanto has even been 101 00:06:03,839 --> 00:06:07,080 Speaker 1: used by couples of different origins as a family language. 102 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:11,120 Speaker 1: It's cool, funny enough. As with every language, even an 103 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,880 Speaker 1: aspiring universal language, it has since had its offshoots. I 104 00:06:15,880 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: saw on Wikipedia that nearly a year after Salmonhoff's creation 105 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:23,080 Speaker 1: of Esperanto, in eighteen eighty eight, Dutch author J. Brachmann 106 00:06:23,120 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: proposed a few changes to language, like combining the end 107 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:30,560 Speaker 1: in for the adjective and adverb, change in conjugations, introducing 108 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:33,479 Speaker 1: more Latin roots, getting rid of the diacritics, and so on. 109 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,440 Speaker 1: This language would be called Mundolinko, and it was the 110 00:06:37,480 --> 00:06:42,280 Speaker 1: first of many offshoots from Esperanto proper. Even zalmon Hooff 111 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:44,200 Speaker 1: would try to reform the language at one point in 112 00:06:44,240 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 1: eighteen ninety four, but it was rejected by the Esperanto 113 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,640 Speaker 1: community and eventually even himself. These reforms would later be 114 00:06:50,760 --> 00:06:53,960 Speaker 1: used to develop Edo, another attempt at universal language, with 115 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: far less success. I also learned view Wikipedia there was 116 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,840 Speaker 1: an attempt to make Esperanto more complex by introducing Cherokee 117 00:07:01,880 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 1: components called policepo created by a Native American activist named 118 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 1: Billy ray Walden. Esperanto speakers continue to play the language 119 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,680 Speaker 1: in all sorts of ways. To this day. Esperanto is 120 00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 1: an evolved in language and Samanhoff himself is honored as 121 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: part of this global Esperanto culture. They celebrate his birthday 122 00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:26,440 Speaker 1: the fifteenth of December. There are statues and streets and 123 00:07:26,480 --> 00:07:30,360 Speaker 1: plaques remembering him worldwide, and even an asteroid bears his name. 124 00:07:31,200 --> 00:07:33,720 Speaker 1: At one point, according to the BBC article, there was 125 00:07:33,760 --> 00:07:37,640 Speaker 1: an effort to establish an Esperanto speaking land called ami Kejo, 126 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,600 Speaker 1: which would have been a three point five square kilometer 127 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: territory between the Netherlands, Germany and France. Yeah. Nice, three 128 00:07:46,800 --> 00:07:48,320 Speaker 1: point five square kilometers. 129 00:07:48,600 --> 00:07:52,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, not huge, Yeah, it's like how big. Well, I know, 130 00:07:52,600 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 2: we've got a few of those, like little ones in Europe, you. 131 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:57,000 Speaker 1: Know, Yeah, a couple of micro estates. It could have 132 00:07:57,040 --> 00:08:00,800 Speaker 1: been another micro state, but the idea was very squashed 133 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: follow World War One. 134 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know. This SENATEAVI, the Spanish Anarchosynthicalist Union was 135 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:11,440 Speaker 2: like in its first congress, like its foundational Congress. I 136 00:08:11,480 --> 00:08:13,800 Speaker 2: suppose they were like, and everyone has to everyone should 137 00:08:13,800 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: try and learn Esperanto, Like that was one of their 138 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:20,080 Speaker 2: like the things that at the foundation of what became 139 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,640 Speaker 2: probably the most powerful anarchist movement the world's ever seen. 140 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:24,600 Speaker 2: They were like, also, this is a big thing. 141 00:08:24,960 --> 00:08:28,320 Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah, Esperanto was really huge in the anarchist movement 142 00:08:28,360 --> 00:08:31,480 Speaker 1: at a certain point. Yeah, but we're going to get 143 00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 1: to those connections soon enough. I wanted to bring up 144 00:08:44,760 --> 00:08:49,679 Speaker 1: this other interesting story. There was actually an effort by esperantists, 145 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: including a delegate from Iran, to get the language to 146 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: become the official language of the League of Nations. But 147 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 1: take one guess as to which country block that effort. 148 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,200 Speaker 2: Was it one of the anglophone countries? No, oh, wow, 149 00:09:05,920 --> 00:09:06,400 Speaker 2: the French. 150 00:09:06,480 --> 00:09:07,400 Speaker 1: It was the French. 151 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, there is not a state more invested in its 152 00:09:11,559 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: language than France. Indeed, they have laws I think about, 153 00:09:15,280 --> 00:09:18,760 Speaker 2: like broadcasting music and dubbing films and things. 154 00:09:19,360 --> 00:09:24,600 Speaker 1: Yeah. The French government seemingly hated Esperanto. At least according 155 00:09:24,640 --> 00:09:28,160 Speaker 1: to the article on imp of the Diverse blog site, 156 00:09:28,600 --> 00:09:32,480 Speaker 1: they blocked its study in universities and public schools, and 157 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,240 Speaker 1: as the article quotes, the opponents directly quote. On September tenth, 158 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:40,199 Speaker 1: nineteen twenty two, the New York Tribune ran a translation 159 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:42,959 Speaker 1: of a piece by the editor in chief of the 160 00:09:43,080 --> 00:09:48,480 Speaker 1: Martin Stefan Lausanne miss Lasan spent half his editorial writing 161 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:51,480 Speaker 1: about Esperanto. And I'm not going to do a French 162 00:09:51,559 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: accent for this section. But just imagine, like the most 163 00:09:54,960 --> 00:10:00,600 Speaker 1: French Frenchman reading this, that Finns or Albanians but such 164 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 1: a proper gander is comprehensible. Their dialect has no chance 165 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: of imposing itself on the universe. They need a second 166 00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:13,280 Speaker 1: language just as well Esperanto as any other. But that 167 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,400 Speaker 1: French people or English or Germans could have let themselves 168 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:22,400 Speaker 1: be allured by this linguistic bolsheviser that is far more extraordinary. 169 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,400 Speaker 1: It is nevertheless a fact that Esperanto, which was born 170 00:10:26,480 --> 00:10:29,480 Speaker 1: twenty five years ago and ought to have died through ridicule, 171 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: continues to have disciples in Europe. Every year, in a 172 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: different capital they hold a congress at which they are 173 00:10:37,000 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 1: not very numerous, but where they make a great noise. 174 00:10:40,400 --> 00:10:43,200 Speaker 1: They get so excited that quite recently the Minister of 175 00:10:43,200 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: Public Instruction had to address a circular to all the 176 00:10:46,080 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 1: French educational resorts to warn them against the danger of Esperanto. 177 00:10:52,440 --> 00:10:55,200 Speaker 1: An article in the Washington Herald on that same day 178 00:10:55,559 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: explained the danger, at the least according to the Ministry 179 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: of Public Instruction. The reason for this order, according to 180 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 1: certain school teachers, is that teaching of a language as 181 00:11:04,840 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: easy as Esperanto endangers the existence of the French language 182 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:12,160 Speaker 1: and thus the national solidarity of the country. They consent 183 00:11:12,360 --> 00:11:15,480 Speaker 1: that children will nationally take to an easy language is Esperanto, 184 00:11:15,960 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: and in that time French and English would perish, and 185 00:11:18,760 --> 00:11:22,840 Speaker 1: that the literary standard of the world would be debased. Furthermore, 186 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,160 Speaker 1: they argue that a national language plays a predominant part 187 00:11:26,240 --> 00:11:29,840 Speaker 1: in maintaining national unity, and points to Poland and Lorraine 188 00:11:29,960 --> 00:11:34,200 Speaker 1: as examples. Esperanto is an artificial language of no real merit. 189 00:11:34,320 --> 00:11:37,240 Speaker 1: Right to one professor, it has no very definite origin, 190 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 1: and what it aims to draw the scattered people of 191 00:11:39,559 --> 00:11:43,080 Speaker 1: the world together? Does it doth rather tend to denationalization? 192 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: End quote. 193 00:11:45,920 --> 00:11:49,280 Speaker 2: They're not wrong, Like France is the language if you 194 00:11:49,320 --> 00:11:51,480 Speaker 2: read like a peasants into Frenchman is kind of the 195 00:11:51,480 --> 00:11:54,560 Speaker 2: classic work on like French nationalization, but like in order 196 00:11:54,640 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 2: to make people French, they did have to suppress like 197 00:11:57,600 --> 00:12:01,599 Speaker 2: Basque and Breton and Catalan and other languages, right, and 198 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 2: make people go to schools where they learned French and 199 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:06,880 Speaker 2: conceived of themselves as French. As a result of that. 200 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:12,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, their imposition of DaShan identity was perhaps among the 201 00:12:12,600 --> 00:12:16,040 Speaker 1: most successful in the world. Yeah, in terms of its 202 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:18,960 Speaker 1: iliness and its consistent enforcement. 203 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:24,000 Speaker 2: It shows like nations are always projects of the bourgeoisie, right, Like, 204 00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: at least I would argue that, and so a lot 205 00:12:26,280 --> 00:12:30,079 Speaker 2: of other people. But like the French example is one 206 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:32,480 Speaker 2: where we can see it more clearly than others. Like 207 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,360 Speaker 2: it's a state and specifically like a certain class within 208 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:40,280 Speaker 2: the state's project to enforce and continue to perpetuate this 209 00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:41,240 Speaker 2: narrative of nation. 210 00:12:42,640 --> 00:12:46,439 Speaker 1: And you know, they weren't the only enemies of Esperanto. 211 00:12:46,880 --> 00:12:49,800 Speaker 1: And do you know that's saying judge me by my enemies. 212 00:12:51,200 --> 00:12:52,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, who else have we got? 213 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:58,120 Speaker 1: Nazi Germany, Francoist Spain and the Soviet Union also heated. 214 00:12:58,400 --> 00:13:00,760 Speaker 2: Esperanto gets cooler with every the. 215 00:13:00,760 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 1: Nazis, they were nationalists and the Zawonhoff was Jewish, so 216 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:08,880 Speaker 1: his family was actually targeted and the language was banned 217 00:13:09,200 --> 00:13:12,240 Speaker 1: and Esperantists were targeted and put in camps during the Holocaust, 218 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:14,680 Speaker 1: which is really tragic. 219 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, pretty fucked. 220 00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:20,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, his whole family was heavily targeted by Nazi Germany. 221 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:26,880 Speaker 1: Franco associated Esperanto with anti nationalism and anarchism, which true. Yeah, 222 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:31,400 Speaker 1: he wasn't wrong, So it was targeted for a while. Yeah, 223 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:36,760 Speaker 1: and the Soviets, while originally recognizing Esperantists, eventually reversed that 224 00:13:36,840 --> 00:13:40,920 Speaker 1: policy under Stalin during the Great Purge and executed exiled 225 00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: or guvagh Esperantists. And as you can imagine, all that 226 00:13:45,920 --> 00:13:51,880 Speaker 1: repression all at once kind of killed Esperanto's momentum. Today, 227 00:13:51,960 --> 00:13:55,360 Speaker 1: despite its goal of being a truly international language, Esperanto's 228 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:59,200 Speaker 1: global reatremain's une fun well. It has made some strides 229 00:13:59,240 --> 00:14:02,640 Speaker 1: in recent years, it's still underrepresented in many parts of 230 00:14:02,679 --> 00:14:06,320 Speaker 1: Africa and Asia. The majority of Esperanto speakers today are 231 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:09,640 Speaker 1: in Europe. Those development outside of Europe deserves some attention, 232 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,080 Speaker 1: as Esperanto manage to levermarque in China, Iran, Togo, and 233 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,679 Speaker 1: the Democratic Republic of Congo. But the response to Esperanto 234 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,440 Speaker 1: historically should give you an indication as to how anarchists 235 00:14:20,560 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: must have felt about Esperanto as an internationalist or anti 236 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,040 Speaker 1: nationalist movement. Anarchism was very supportive of the Esperanto project. 237 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,800 Speaker 1: When running through the timeline could to see Wilfirth's Esperanto 238 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,480 Speaker 1: and Anarchism. One of the earliest anarchist Esperanto groups was 239 00:14:36,520 --> 00:14:39,440 Speaker 1: founded in Stockholm in nineteen oh five. The same year, 240 00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: the anarchist Pull Up with a Lot founded the monthly 241 00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:47,240 Speaker 1: magazine Esperanto. Similar groups suonnimmersed in Bulgaria, China and other countries. 242 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:52,200 Speaker 1: In nineteen oh six, anarchists anarchist Synicolis founded an international association, 243 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:57,840 Speaker 1: Paco Libreco Peace Freedom, which published the Internacia Socia Review. 244 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:02,920 Speaker 1: By nineteen ten, Paco Libireco merged with Esperantista Lawari Staro 245 00:15:03,240 --> 00:15:08,600 Speaker 1: to form Liberiga Stello star Liberation, strengthening anarchist Esperanto networks. 246 00:15:09,360 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 1: The nineteen oh seven International Anarchist Congress in Amsterdam formally 247 00:15:12,800 --> 00:15:17,400 Speaker 1: addressed their role of Esperanto in international communication. Subsequent anarchist 248 00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 1: congresses continue to pass resolutions advocating for Esperanto's use within 249 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: the movement. By nineteen fourteen, these anarchists esperantist organizations had 250 00:15:25,400 --> 00:15:30,920 Speaker 1: published extensive revolutionary literature, including anarchist texts in Esperanto. Around 251 00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: this time, correspondence between European and Japanese anarchists became more active, 252 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:40,960 Speaker 1: facilitated by Esperanto. In Prague, Eugene Adam proposed the formation 253 00:15:41,120 --> 00:15:45,280 Speaker 1: of Sena Sisa Associo Tutmunda the SAT or the World 254 00:15:45,360 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: in National Association. Unlike other Esperanto associations, SAT rejected nationalism 255 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:57,240 Speaker 1: wholesale and sought to create a transnational class conscious workers movement. 256 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 1: To quote why is there an Esperanto Workers Movement by 257 00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:04,880 Speaker 1: Gary Michel, SAT was not meant to usurp the role 258 00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: of political parties by engaging in political struggles directly, but 259 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,960 Speaker 1: was to be a cultural association engaged in workers education, 260 00:16:12,720 --> 00:16:14,880 Speaker 1: one that would help to break down national and ethnic 261 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: barriers between workers by involving them in practical collective activity, 262 00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,840 Speaker 1: bringing workers into contact, freeing them from the shackles of nationalism. 263 00:16:24,400 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: SAT's ideas, and especially the ideas of its a nationalist faction, 264 00:16:28,640 --> 00:16:30,880 Speaker 1: were an early statement of an idea that has more 265 00:16:30,920 --> 00:16:35,080 Speaker 1: recently come to be known as globalization from below. So 266 00:16:35,120 --> 00:16:38,280 Speaker 1: in August nineteen twenty one, seventy nine workers from fifteen 267 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,880 Speaker 1: countries gathered in Prague to formally established SAT. By nineteen 268 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,040 Speaker 1: twenty nine to nineteen thirty, SAT had grown to six 269 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:49,400 Speaker 1: five hundred and twenty four members across forty two countries, 270 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:54,360 Speaker 1: reaching its peak influence. The use of Esperanto flourished in 271 00:16:54,480 --> 00:16:58,000 Speaker 1: German workers' movements between nineteen twenty and nineteen thirty three. 272 00:16:58,320 --> 00:17:01,480 Speaker 1: By nineteen thirty two, the Workers Esperanto League had four 273 00:17:01,560 --> 00:17:05,719 Speaker 1: thousand members, leading to Esperanto being called the Workers Latin. 274 00:17:06,560 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: But as you can imagine, this was not to last. 275 00:17:09,000 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: By the time Hitler came into power. The Scientific Anarchist 276 00:17:12,880 --> 00:17:16,159 Speaker 1: Library of the International Language or ISAB, was founded in 277 00:17:16,200 --> 00:17:19,760 Speaker 1: the USSR in nineteen twenty three, publishing anarchist works by 278 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:23,840 Speaker 1: Kropotkin and a. Borivoi in Esperanto. This also would not 279 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,960 Speaker 1: last the Great Purge. The Berlin group of anarchistyniclist Esperantis 280 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 1: creeated the second Congress of the International Workers Association in 281 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 1: Amsterdam in nineteen twenty five and reported that Esperanto had 282 00:17:34,240 --> 00:17:37,720 Speaker 1: become so integrated into their movement that an international libertarian 283 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,359 Speaker 1: Esperantist organization had formed. This likely referred to the TLEs 284 00:17:42,880 --> 00:17:46,639 Speaker 1: the World League of Titless Esperantists, which later merged with SAT. 285 00:17:47,640 --> 00:17:52,159 Speaker 1: Esperanto was also popping off amongst anarchists and socialists in Korea, China, 286 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,919 Speaker 1: and Japan. Liushifu, a key figure in Chinese anarchism, began 287 00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,800 Speaker 1: publishing La Vocho de la Popolo The Voice of the 288 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:04,560 Speaker 1: People in nineteen thirteen, the first anarchist periodical in China. 289 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:08,920 Speaker 1: His work relied heavily on information from Internacia Socier Review 290 00:18:09,400 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: and helped popularize esperanto in China. Japanese anarchists and socialists, 291 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: as I mentioned, were among the earliest esperantists in the country, 292 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 1: but faced heavy persecution and sadly between imperial Japan, Francoist Spain, 293 00:18:23,119 --> 00:18:26,640 Speaker 1: Nazi Germany, and Stalinist Russia. The rise of tatalitarian regimes 294 00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,679 Speaker 1: lead into World War II largely suppressed the anarchist esperanto movement. 295 00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:34,320 Speaker 1: After the war, the Paras Anarchist Esperanto group was the 296 00:18:34,359 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: first to resume organized work, launching the publication Sen Santano 297 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:43,439 Speaker 1: in nineteen forty six. Most anarchist esperantists have since been 298 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,600 Speaker 1: organized within SAT, with an anarchist faction maintaining its autonomy. 299 00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:51,200 Speaker 1: In nineteen sixty nine, this faction began publishing the Liberal 300 00:18:51,520 --> 00:18:55,240 Speaker 1: Sana Bultano, later a day in the Liberate Sana Ligillo. 301 00:18:55,960 --> 00:18:59,359 Speaker 1: By nineteen ninety seven, SAT membership had dwindled to fewer 302 00:18:59,359 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 1: than fifteen one hundred members. The initial radical vision of 303 00:19:02,960 --> 00:19:06,280 Speaker 1: SAT was weakened by political shifts and the growing dominance 304 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:09,600 Speaker 1: of English as a global lingua franca. The only separation 305 00:19:09,640 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 1: between SAT and mainstream Esperanto organizations was a response to 306 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,080 Speaker 1: bourgeois political neutrality, but it also contributed to its marginalization, 307 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,879 Speaker 1: and today the anarchist Esperanto movement exists largely as a 308 00:19:20,960 --> 00:19:34,439 Speaker 1: niche within SAT. So what can we say about the 309 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 1: role of Esperanto today. Well, one of the more interesting 310 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,520 Speaker 1: currents I found in the Esperanto community mentioned by Firth 311 00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:46,360 Speaker 1: is Raumismo, a philosophy named after the Finnish city of Rauma, 312 00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,320 Speaker 1: where a youth congress in nineteen eighty helped define this approach. 313 00:19:51,960 --> 00:19:56,600 Speaker 1: Braumismo views Esperanto speakers as a kind of linguistic diaspora, 314 00:19:57,080 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: a cultural group bound together by a shared language rather 315 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:03,120 Speaker 1: than an national identity. Instead of focusing on making Esperanto 316 00:20:03,119 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: a universal second language, browingy storage embrace it as just 317 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:11,640 Speaker 1: one language among many, valuing its use in literature, culture 318 00:20:11,840 --> 00:20:17,520 Speaker 1: and everyday communication without any grand ideological ambitions. But it's possible, Esperanto, 319 00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:19,720 Speaker 1: who can still play a role in facilities in exchange 320 00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:23,520 Speaker 1: and collaboration between people of different linguistic backgrounds. A German 321 00:20:23,560 --> 00:20:28,280 Speaker 1: anarchist once lamented the barriers international understanding, quoted in Food's article, 322 00:20:28,920 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: more or less in isolation from one another, we work 323 00:20:31,680 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: and fight without engaging in exchange about our victories and defeats, 324 00:20:35,359 --> 00:20:39,000 Speaker 1: and with thoughts supporting and encouraging one another. Intensifying contact 325 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,399 Speaker 1: above the regional level with people having similar ideas and 326 00:20:41,440 --> 00:20:44,399 Speaker 1: aims should be an important component of our work in 327 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:49,520 Speaker 1: order to make effective, active solidarity possible. And that's the trouble. 328 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:55,040 Speaker 1: Even today. Linguistic barriers hinder international cooperation. Groups struggle to 329 00:20:55,080 --> 00:21:01,199 Speaker 1: maintain foreign language correspondence, organize multilingual meetings, or find interpreters. Instead, 330 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,320 Speaker 1: communication tends to rely on chance. You know someone in 331 00:21:04,359 --> 00:21:07,440 Speaker 1: a group happens to speak a certain language that determines 332 00:21:07,440 --> 00:21:10,720 Speaker 1: who they can connect with. But when those key individuals 333 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,480 Speaker 1: move on, those connections can have fallen apart. So I 334 00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:17,199 Speaker 1: get the appeal, I mean, wouldn't it be beneficial for 335 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:20,200 Speaker 1: these movements and for any interest group working across language 336 00:21:20,240 --> 00:21:23,440 Speaker 1: barriers to have a relatively easy to learn, politically neutral 337 00:21:23,520 --> 00:21:27,600 Speaker 1: means of communication. Major languages like English, Spanish or French 338 00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:30,919 Speaker 1: don't fully solve the problem, as they come with historical 339 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: baggage and imbalances influency levels. Esperanto, on the other hand, 340 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:39,639 Speaker 1: provides a more equitable solution because everybody is from this 341 00:21:39,760 --> 00:21:42,440 Speaker 1: starts and from the same point. Since it isn't tied 342 00:21:42,480 --> 00:21:45,719 Speaker 1: to any one nation, it avoids the poodynamics that arise 343 00:21:45,760 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: when non native speakers must conform to the linguistic norms 344 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:53,119 Speaker 1: of dominant cultures. Unlike English, which often privileges native speakers 345 00:21:53,160 --> 00:21:57,120 Speaker 1: and places others as perpetual learners, Esperanto fosters a more 346 00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:02,000 Speaker 1: level playin field English like a global linguid franca right now, 347 00:22:02,480 --> 00:22:04,959 Speaker 1: but a lot of people leave school without ever developing 348 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:09,000 Speaker 1: an effluency to navigate an English dominated world, and English 349 00:22:09,200 --> 00:22:14,359 Speaker 1: is not the easiest language to learn. Esperanto, regardless of 350 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:18,920 Speaker 1: weather ever, becomes a global standard, offers an alternative path. 351 00:22:19,680 --> 00:22:23,480 Speaker 1: It can help people overcome language learning anxieties, as particularly 352 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:27,240 Speaker 1: those who feel disempowered by additional educational systems, and it 353 00:22:27,280 --> 00:22:30,880 Speaker 1: can inspire an interest in language itself. If you've ever 354 00:22:30,920 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 1: met an Esperanto speaker, you know that they are very 355 00:22:33,800 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: passionate about linguistics. More often than not, many of the 356 00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,160 Speaker 1: speakers go on to study linguistics, language politics, or even 357 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:45,600 Speaker 1: lesser known languages. It's also a great way to develop 358 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:51,200 Speaker 1: translation skills in a friendly, cooperative environment. For monolingual English speakers, 359 00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:55,440 Speaker 1: using Esperanto can be an eye opening experience. It puts 360 00:22:55,440 --> 00:22:57,400 Speaker 1: them the shoes of those who never got to rely 361 00:22:57,480 --> 00:23:01,199 Speaker 1: on their native language in international settings. Rather than view 362 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 1: an Esperanto as a competitor to other languages, perhaps a 363 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:06,800 Speaker 1: more productive approach is to see it as a tool 364 00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:11,920 Speaker 1: for promoting multilingualism, cultural exchange, and a more cosmopolitan mindset 365 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:15,720 Speaker 1: within the Esperanto speaking The community. Opinions and its future 366 00:23:15,840 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: vary widely, but one thing is clear. The question of 367 00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:22,480 Speaker 1: how we communicate a cross linguistic divides is still very 368 00:23:22,520 --> 00:23:27,640 Speaker 1: much alive, and Esperanto offers but one possible answer. However, 369 00:23:27,720 --> 00:23:31,640 Speaker 1: as I alluded to Ilier, Esperanto is not without its critiques, 370 00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: as covered by Firth, Let's start with one of the 371 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:39,240 Speaker 1: most frequent critiques, Esperanto is an artificial language. Unlike the 372 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:43,160 Speaker 1: so called natural languages, which evolved organically over time, Esperanto 373 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:47,359 Speaker 1: is deliberately constructed. But here's the thing. Since the rise 374 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:50,760 Speaker 1: of the nation state, the line between natural and artificial 375 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:56,160 Speaker 1: languages has become increasingly blurry. Many national languages, like standard 376 00:23:56,160 --> 00:24:00,440 Speaker 1: German or Standard French, have been shaped by deliberate standardization, 377 00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:06,040 Speaker 1: legal regulations, and media influence. In that sense, every language 378 00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:10,840 Speaker 1: is to some degree engineered. Authors, storytellers, and ordinary speakers 379 00:24:10,880 --> 00:24:15,240 Speaker 1: continuously influenced language development, meaning that Esperanto is not as different. 380 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:19,280 Speaker 1: After all, it does continue to evolve. And here's where 381 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:22,920 Speaker 1: I think. James Scott had a rather negative characterization of 382 00:24:23,040 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: Esperanto as a purely high modernist endeavor, as though all 383 00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,040 Speaker 1: esperandos sought to make Esperanto the official international language in 384 00:24:31,080 --> 00:24:33,520 Speaker 1: se Meca State. He claims that Esperanto was created to 385 00:24:33,560 --> 00:24:37,159 Speaker 1: replace the dialects and vernaculars of Europe. But such was 386 00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 1: never the case. It was always meant to be a 387 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:43,640 Speaker 1: language used to facilitate communication. There was more than one 388 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,800 Speaker 1: motivation of Esperando's use, and boil in such an exercise 389 00:24:46,840 --> 00:24:49,399 Speaker 1: and human creativity, and attempted a connection down to just 390 00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:54,760 Speaker 1: that status focus to me seems needlessly reductive. He also 391 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,800 Speaker 1: calls it quote an exceptionally thin language without any of 392 00:24:57,840 --> 00:25:02,199 Speaker 1: the resonances, connotations ready metaphor literatures, oral histories, idioms, and 393 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:05,600 Speaker 1: traditions of practical use that any social embedded language already 394 00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: had end quote, which may be true when I began, 395 00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:12,440 Speaker 1: but it's certainly not true now was over a century 396 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:13,800 Speaker 1: of use and evolution. 397 00:25:14,760 --> 00:25:16,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. 398 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:20,200 Speaker 1: His analogies between Esperanto and plant cities also missed the 399 00:25:20,240 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: mark for me, as Esperanto has clearly operated as a 400 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,679 Speaker 1: self organized and grassroots movement for most of its history 401 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,000 Speaker 1: and has never really received the back end of states 402 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: or their enforcement. 403 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:34,400 Speaker 2: It's a weird angle from Scott because normally he'd advocate 404 00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 2: for like what he calls like the anarchist squint right 405 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,679 Speaker 2: like in seeing history through a perspective of anarchism, I 406 00:25:41,720 --> 00:25:44,480 Speaker 2: guess like an anarchist lens, and I feel like, exactly 407 00:25:44,560 --> 00:25:48,920 Speaker 2: this is very applicable with Esperanto, the only language which 408 00:25:48,960 --> 00:25:53,120 Speaker 2: isn't inherently tied to any state or nation or ethnicity. 409 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,480 Speaker 1: Exactly when I saw that, I remember reading seeing like 410 00:25:57,520 --> 00:26:00,199 Speaker 1: the States some years ago and I've already lost to that, 411 00:26:00,640 --> 00:26:02,440 Speaker 1: But in doing the research for this, I ended up 412 00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: stumbling upon it again and I was like, h after 413 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:08,840 Speaker 1: reading the history, it's like this wasn't quite accurate. 414 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:12,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, that's about it. Yeah, generally like Scott. 415 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: Me as well. 416 00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:18,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, recently some listeners very kindly. James Scott passed away 417 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 2: out of this year, as I'm sure you know, I do, yes, 418 00:26:21,440 --> 00:26:24,719 Speaker 2: But his library was donated to a local second hand 419 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,879 Speaker 2: bookshop and some folks that I asked online and they 420 00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:30,040 Speaker 2: went and got me some books and sent them, which 421 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,040 Speaker 2: was really kind. So I have some of his books now. 422 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: Oh that's nice. 423 00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 2: Yeah. 424 00:26:34,200 --> 00:26:38,119 Speaker 1: There's another common claim about Esperanto, which is that it's Eurocentric, 425 00:26:38,359 --> 00:26:43,480 Speaker 1: right and linguistically, there's some truth to this. Esperanto originated 426 00:26:43,560 --> 00:26:47,480 Speaker 1: in Eastern Europe, and it still carries structural elements to example, 427 00:26:47,560 --> 00:26:51,920 Speaker 1: Indo European languages. The majority of Esperanto speakers today are European, 428 00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 1: and its vocabulary is largely drawn from European languages. Whoever, 429 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,840 Speaker 1: critics who make this argument often suggest alternatives like English 430 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,320 Speaker 1: or Spanish languages that are just as if not more 431 00:27:04,359 --> 00:27:08,639 Speaker 1: e're centric in the historical and political reach. Esperanto, in contrast, 432 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,720 Speaker 1: has evolved through influence from non European languages as well, 433 00:27:12,080 --> 00:27:15,200 Speaker 1: particularly through its development in China and Japan. It's a 434 00:27:15,240 --> 00:27:18,399 Speaker 1: glassative word formation, a feature more common in languages like 435 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:22,240 Speaker 1: Turkish or Japanese, and what some call the Hungarian period 436 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:27,119 Speaker 1: of Esperanto's history. So while Esperanto has European roots, its 437 00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: global evolution challenges the idea that it is exclusively European 438 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 1: in character. Another critique is that Esperanto is sexist. The 439 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:39,479 Speaker 1: argument goes that because feminine forms are typically created by 440 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:43,800 Speaker 1: adding in to a base form like laboristo worker becoming 441 00:27:43,880 --> 00:27:48,720 Speaker 1: Labrestino female worker, the language assumes masculinity as a default, 442 00:27:49,280 --> 00:27:52,239 Speaker 1: and while this is a valid concern, Esperanto differs from 443 00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,200 Speaker 1: any European languages in a key way. It is not 444 00:27:55,359 --> 00:27:59,880 Speaker 1: assigned grammatical gender to inanimate objects. A chair isn't arbitrarily 445 00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: feminine like in French or masculine like in German. However, 446 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,240 Speaker 1: in practice, gender bias can still creep in the basic 447 00:28:07,280 --> 00:28:10,359 Speaker 1: form of noun is often assumed to be masculine, even 448 00:28:10,359 --> 00:28:14,359 Speaker 1: though Esperanto allows for explicitly male forms as well, like 449 00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:18,720 Speaker 1: in any language, reducing linguistic sexism in Esperanto requires conscious 450 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: effort in how people actually use it. 451 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:24,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's an interesting one. Like we see this in 452 00:28:24,280 --> 00:28:27,119 Speaker 2: Spanish too, write like with attempts to create like gender 453 00:28:27,160 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 2: neutral forms, they presumptive masculine or if you're addressing a 454 00:28:31,560 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 2: mixed gender group then you would use the masculine. But 455 00:28:35,520 --> 00:28:38,400 Speaker 2: like people who are first language Spanish speakers can correct me. 456 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:41,400 Speaker 2: I'm sure you will on the subreddit if you want to. So, 457 00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:44,360 Speaker 2: like when I hear in English language media it's referred 458 00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:47,880 Speaker 2: to as latinx. But like that's kind of a word 459 00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,280 Speaker 2: that I struggle to say in Spanish, like Latin eki 460 00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:53,160 Speaker 2: or like is it latiniques, And so there's this very 461 00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 2: kind of clumsy gender neutral form which seems to be 462 00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 2: easier to say in English. Spanish. 463 00:29:00,880 --> 00:29:06,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, I've seen Latin used in some circles. Yeah, Latine, latine. 464 00:29:07,040 --> 00:29:10,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, when I speak to non binary people in Spanish, 465 00:29:10,280 --> 00:29:14,440 Speaker 2: that's what they prefer to use. Of this relatively small 466 00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,240 Speaker 2: sample size, given that there are probably millions of non 467 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,000 Speaker 2: binary Spanish speaking people, I haven't obviously spoken to all 468 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:23,120 Speaker 2: or most of them, but like it's very interesting to 469 00:29:23,160 --> 00:29:25,440 Speaker 2: see this like outside critique of the language, which seems 470 00:29:25,440 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 2: to also ignore an inside movement within people who are 471 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 2: Spanish first language speakers to create a organic, like gender 472 00:29:33,400 --> 00:29:36,480 Speaker 2: neutral form, which could also happen in any language. Right Like, 473 00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,280 Speaker 2: just because Esperanto has a certain form doesn't mean that 474 00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:43,440 Speaker 2: people within that language who don't feel represented by them 475 00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 2: couldn't create forms within that language that better represent them exactly. 476 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 2: And it's easier because you don't have like a government 477 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 2: telling you you can't use it or whatever exactly exactly. 478 00:29:53,360 --> 00:29:56,959 Speaker 1: Esperanto is and continues to be a grassroots movement, and 479 00:29:57,440 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 1: that has actually been a subject of critique for some. 480 00:30:00,160 --> 00:30:02,280 Speaker 1: You know, perhaps one of the biggest critiques for Esperando 481 00:30:02,440 --> 00:30:04,840 Speaker 1: is that it never achieved its original goal of becoming 482 00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:09,400 Speaker 1: a universal second language. Zamenhoffit's creator, envisioned a world where 483 00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: Esperanto would bridge linguistic divides, but for many learnar language 484 00:30:14,480 --> 00:30:18,960 Speaker 1: that relatively few people spoke simply wasn't practical. But the 485 00:30:19,040 --> 00:30:22,680 Speaker 1: rise of the Internet changed the game for Esperanto. What 486 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: was once difficult to learn and use daily has become 487 00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:28,600 Speaker 1: far more accessible. For example, Esperanto is actually one of 488 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:33,240 Speaker 1: the most overrepresented languages on the Internet. The Esperanto Wikipedia 489 00:30:33,400 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 1: has around two hundred and forty thousand articles, putting it 490 00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:38,960 Speaker 1: in the same league as languages spoken by tens of 491 00:30:39,000 --> 00:30:43,560 Speaker 1: millions of people, like Turkish and Korean. Google and Facebook 492 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:46,640 Speaker 1: have offered Esperanto versions of their platforms for years, and 493 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,680 Speaker 1: language learning services like due Lingo have helped introduce it 494 00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:53,360 Speaker 1: to a new generation of learners like myself. In fact, 495 00:30:53,440 --> 00:30:55,880 Speaker 1: the people who developed Esperanto courses for du Lingo did 496 00:30:55,960 --> 00:30:59,640 Speaker 1: so voluntarily, simply because they believed in the languages potential. 497 00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,400 Speaker 1: Esperanto has fostered a unique online community, and there's even 498 00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,720 Speaker 1: a free hospitality network called passporta Servo where Esperanto speakers 499 00:31:08,760 --> 00:31:12,120 Speaker 1: can stay with each other around the world, no money required, 500 00:31:12,680 --> 00:31:16,000 Speaker 1: just a shared language and a common philosophy of global connection. 501 00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: Not everyone learns Esperanto for the same reasons. Some people 502 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,600 Speaker 1: seek intellectual challenge, some want a sense of unique community, 503 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 1: and others are drawn to its political neutrality. As communications 504 00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 1: lecturer Sara Marino points out in the BBC article, people 505 00:31:32,280 --> 00:31:36,680 Speaker 1: engage in Esperanto for many different motivations, whether it's personal fulfillment, 506 00:31:37,040 --> 00:31:40,880 Speaker 1: social inclusion, civic engagement, or just the simple joy of 507 00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:44,120 Speaker 1: learning a new language. It's important and not to reduce 508 00:31:44,240 --> 00:31:48,120 Speaker 1: Esperanto learners to stereotype. Their reasons for participating are as 509 00:31:48,160 --> 00:31:54,200 Speaker 1: diverse as the language itself. So where does Esperanto stand today? 510 00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,360 Speaker 1: It may never replace English as the global lingua franca, 511 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,360 Speaker 1: but perhaps there was never the point. Instead, it serves 512 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:06,040 Speaker 1: us a tool for promoting bilingualism, foster and cross cultural connections, 513 00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:11,080 Speaker 1: and encouraging people to think differently about language itself. And 514 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:15,440 Speaker 1: I think that is worthy of Atoinner Award. That's what 515 00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:19,200 Speaker 1: I have for today. All power to all the people. Peace. 516 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:24,680 Speaker 2: It could Happen Here is a production of cool Zone Media. 517 00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:27,920 Speaker 1: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website 518 00:32:28,000 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: Coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio app, 519 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:35,240 Speaker 1: Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts, you can 520 00:32:35,280 --> 00:32:36,920 Speaker 1: now find sources for it could Happen Here. 521 00:32:36,920 --> 00:32:39,920 Speaker 2: Listened directly in episode descriptions. Thanks for listening.