1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,000 Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray. 2 00:00:03,240 --> 00:00:10,000 Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stump Mom Never told you? 3 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:17,639 Speaker 1: From House top works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to 4 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,120 Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Molly. Molly. Who would 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,240 Speaker 1: you say is the most famous nurse in the school? 6 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:27,520 Speaker 1: I've got you in mind? I would probably say Laurence 7 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:31,920 Speaker 1: Nightingale or Clara Barton. And you know what, those two 8 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: nurses seven common that they're both female vaginas. Yeah, they 9 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:40,839 Speaker 1: both they both are women. But one important nurse that 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:45,559 Speaker 1: is often left out of popular medical history is a 11 00:00:45,640 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: man named Edward Glavin, who created the Society of Registered 12 00:00:51,680 --> 00:00:55,960 Speaker 1: Male Nurses in England in ninety seven because Edward Glavin 13 00:00:56,080 --> 00:00:59,920 Speaker 1: recognized that, you know what, even though a lot of 14 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:03,160 Speaker 1: women are nurses, men are nurses too, and we need 15 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,200 Speaker 1: our we need a society for ourselves, and they don't 16 00:01:06,200 --> 00:01:08,560 Speaker 1: need to be made punchlines and pop culture. If you 17 00:01:08,600 --> 00:01:11,120 Speaker 1: saw Meet the Parents, you endured an hour and a 18 00:01:11,120 --> 00:01:14,800 Speaker 1: half of male nurse jokes because Ben Stiller's character is 19 00:01:14,800 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: a male nurse and Robert de Niro just cannot let 20 00:01:17,080 --> 00:01:20,600 Speaker 1: it go. And so that that's the stereotype is that 21 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,880 Speaker 1: there are no male nurses, and if there are, there's 22 00:01:23,880 --> 00:01:26,880 Speaker 1: something kind of weird about them. Yeah, like their name 23 00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,119 Speaker 1: might be gay Lord fokker Um. So that's the question 24 00:01:30,200 --> 00:01:33,680 Speaker 1: we wanted to investigate, is why does this stereotype persist, 25 00:01:33,800 --> 00:01:36,160 Speaker 1: Why do we think of nurses as women? Why is 26 00:01:36,240 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 1: nursing considered women's work, and what are the implications of 27 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:44,320 Speaker 1: that and kind of like with the home podcast, we 28 00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: uncovered some tense relationships between very female dominated industry sector 29 00:01:51,480 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 1: I nursing and feminism, which we'll get to in a minute. 30 00:01:56,840 --> 00:01:58,800 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of a lot of interesting stuff 31 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: we found in this guess. So shall we start with 32 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,960 Speaker 1: some history? Kristen, Of course I love history now, you know, 33 00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:07,680 Speaker 1: when I was researching nursing history, I expected to find 34 00:02:07,720 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 1: like really old articles about the beginning of time and nursing, 35 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:15,640 Speaker 1: you know, during the Crusades and the like. But you know, 36 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:21,799 Speaker 1: most nursing history articles start with Florence Nightingale mid eighteen hundreds. 37 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 1: So that's that's where the history, I guess, of modern 38 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:28,120 Speaker 1: nursing begins, and it's what really cements this association of 39 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:32,880 Speaker 1: women and nursing. But if we go back in history, 40 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:38,480 Speaker 1: way way back and dime. We have in the fourth 41 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:42,600 Speaker 1: and the fifth centuries with the monastic movement, a lot 42 00:02:42,639 --> 00:02:46,760 Speaker 1: of these monks are the earliest nurses. They're the ones 43 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,160 Speaker 1: going out and um doing the doing the caretaking. And 44 00:02:50,200 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 1: we have the founding of things like the Order of St. 45 00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: John of Jerusalem and the Nights of St. John and Jerusalem, 46 00:02:56,480 --> 00:03:00,400 Speaker 1: which led to the St. John Ambulance Association, which all 47 00:03:00,440 --> 00:03:07,280 Speaker 1: relates back to these male orders of nursing, uh, caregivers, providers, 48 00:03:07,320 --> 00:03:10,400 Speaker 1: nursing writers. So until Old Florence Nangel comes along, it 49 00:03:10,480 --> 00:03:13,000 Speaker 1: might have been a monk or someone in a monastic 50 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:15,760 Speaker 1: order providing care. The women who did the nursing were 51 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:20,960 Speaker 1: considered very low status, uh sometimes akin to prostitutes. The 52 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:24,080 Speaker 1: scholars words not mine, uh you know the people who 53 00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,680 Speaker 1: the women who nurse were just you know, it was 54 00:03:27,240 --> 00:03:30,520 Speaker 1: not a good reputation to have, and it was because 55 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,280 Speaker 1: at the time, if you needed nursing, hopefully you're wealthy 56 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: enough to have your family take care of you. So um. 57 00:03:36,960 --> 00:03:39,160 Speaker 1: Old Florence comes along to the Victorian era, the height 58 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 1: of it where women aren't educated because it's considered pretty pointless. 59 00:03:42,880 --> 00:03:46,080 Speaker 1: Their brains wouldn't hold any information. Florence happened to have 60 00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:49,840 Speaker 1: a father who wanted to educate his daughters even though 61 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,760 Speaker 1: he really wanted a son. But um and Florence really 62 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 1: took to education. She she wrote some essay where she 63 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,480 Speaker 1: positive that Victorian women went mad because they were so 64 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,800 Speaker 1: bored not having occupations. So she was very um, much 65 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: atypical of her time. She turned down an engagement from 66 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: a guy she seemed to love, but she just felt 67 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:10,240 Speaker 1: that that was going to stand in her way of 68 00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 1: being a woman of importance. And very early on she 69 00:04:13,440 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: realized that she liked nursing strangers, even though that was 70 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: frowned upon. Yeah, and then we have a war, the 71 00:04:21,200 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 1: Carimean War with between Britain and Russia, and she noticed 72 00:04:26,160 --> 00:04:30,239 Speaker 1: that all these Russian soldiers were getting much better care 73 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:35,360 Speaker 1: than the British soldiers, and Florence Nightingale was outraged for countrymen. 74 00:04:35,440 --> 00:04:40,720 Speaker 1: She saw her opportunity. She went over and started organizing 75 00:04:40,760 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 1: the hospitals where the British soldiers were kept during the war, 76 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:45,599 Speaker 1: and she became when as the Lady with the Lamp 77 00:04:45,720 --> 00:04:48,040 Speaker 1: because she would go around with her lamp at night 78 00:04:48,080 --> 00:04:50,359 Speaker 1: and check on all the male soldiers as they lay sick, 79 00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:55,000 Speaker 1: and she really applied a rigorous set of rules to 80 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,480 Speaker 1: the hospitals and to the women who worked there. And 81 00:04:57,480 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: it's like you said, Kristen, this kind of reminds of 82 00:04:59,880 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 1: the home podcast, where these early home EC pioneers were 83 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:05,599 Speaker 1: very much about applying science to homemaking. And that's how 84 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,720 Speaker 1: Florence Nightingale felt. She's like, we're going to bring in 85 00:05:08,040 --> 00:05:10,560 Speaker 1: these rules about how hospital will look, who works there, 86 00:05:10,920 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 1: and so on and so forth. She did feel that 87 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 1: women kind of were intuitively meant for this rule, that 88 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 1: they had these ingrained senses of empathy and caring that 89 00:05:19,960 --> 00:05:22,680 Speaker 1: made them good nurses, but they also need to go 90 00:05:22,720 --> 00:05:25,240 Speaker 1: through a rigorous training to be the best nurses they 91 00:05:25,279 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 1: could be. Right, So that was the model, the model 92 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:33,520 Speaker 1: that Florence Nightingale established, That was the model that hospitals 93 00:05:33,560 --> 00:05:38,039 Speaker 1: adopted and started to run with. But at the same time, 94 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:44,640 Speaker 1: while she was so emphatic about women's natural abilities to nurse, 95 00:05:45,360 --> 00:05:49,000 Speaker 1: it also segregated men from being able to nurse as well. 96 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:51,920 Speaker 1: So we have this shift from you know, the early 97 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:55,800 Speaker 1: fifth sixth centuries and onward up until um, let's see 98 00:05:55,839 --> 00:05:58,600 Speaker 1: around I think like the sixteenth and seventeenth century when 99 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,200 Speaker 1: nursing really becomes more are of um the women's domain. 100 00:06:03,320 --> 00:06:06,159 Speaker 1: With Florence Nightingale, she was really adamant about keeping the 101 00:06:06,200 --> 00:06:09,359 Speaker 1: men out of it, and she also establishes nurses homes 102 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,719 Speaker 1: and residence to Holl's women um who were nursing students 103 00:06:12,720 --> 00:06:16,400 Speaker 1: and nursing. That prevents men from being able to get 104 00:06:16,440 --> 00:06:18,839 Speaker 1: the nursing education as well because they don't have a 105 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:21,159 Speaker 1: place to stay. And this will continue on. You know, 106 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 1: it probably still happens a day where a nursing school says, 107 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,520 Speaker 1: you know, we don't have male bathrooms because the teachers 108 00:06:26,520 --> 00:06:29,599 Speaker 1: are female, the students are female. There's no there's no 109 00:06:29,640 --> 00:06:31,960 Speaker 1: way for you to come here, male student. And so 110 00:06:32,080 --> 00:06:35,400 Speaker 1: people who adopt the Nightingale model, everyone adopted adopts it 111 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,520 Speaker 1: because those British soldiers did so well and got so 112 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 1: much publicity. They set up these schools within the hospitals, 113 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 1: not within a college or university for women to go 114 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: and become trained as nurses. They were taught by other nurses, 115 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:50,240 Speaker 1: so it's it's a very um female dominated model from 116 00:06:50,279 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 1: the top down. And you know, they worked with the 117 00:06:52,960 --> 00:06:55,400 Speaker 1: doctors who are male and the patients. You know when 118 00:06:55,520 --> 00:06:57,320 Speaker 1: one article kind of posits that it was this very 119 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:00,520 Speaker 1: Victorian family where the doctors were the male leaders. They 120 00:07:00,520 --> 00:07:02,880 Speaker 1: were the fathers, and nurses were the mothers who obeyed 121 00:07:02,880 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: what the doctors did, and the patients were the children 122 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:10,000 Speaker 1: under everyone's care. But then the formal segregation of women 123 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: and men in nursing happens in Britain with the Nurses 124 00:07:13,840 --> 00:07:17,680 Speaker 1: Act of nineteen nineteen that can find men to a 125 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:24,440 Speaker 1: separate register, and so they were set aside. You couldn't 126 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: register as a male nurse, and you just you could 127 00:07:26,760 --> 00:07:29,239 Speaker 1: not go and say I'm a male nurse. And also 128 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:33,600 Speaker 1: it's around this time that male nurses are relegated to 129 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:37,720 Speaker 1: asylums and mental health wards, whereas women are doing more 130 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:40,400 Speaker 1: of the main healthcare type of work. Right, because men 131 00:07:40,400 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: are super strong, you know, they fall back on another 132 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:46,440 Speaker 1: fall back on another gender stereotype, and you know, somewhat 133 00:07:46,440 --> 00:07:48,440 Speaker 1: true about physical strength of men. They were the ones 134 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:52,280 Speaker 1: who could hold down those unruly mentally ill patients. And 135 00:07:52,320 --> 00:07:54,600 Speaker 1: so then when you think about someone like Nurse Ratchet 136 00:07:54,720 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 1: in one Flever the Cuckoo's Nest, she's very manly. You know, 137 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,040 Speaker 1: they we can talk, you know, for days about how 138 00:08:01,160 --> 00:08:04,120 Speaker 1: nurses are depicted in pop culture, but that particular one 139 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,720 Speaker 1: shows that people thought really strong, masculine people needed to 140 00:08:07,760 --> 00:08:10,680 Speaker 1: work with the mentally ill, and that further serves to 141 00:08:10,720 --> 00:08:13,680 Speaker 1: divide people who are working in hospitals or nursing homes 142 00:08:13,680 --> 00:08:17,200 Speaker 1: from people who are working in mental health areas. So 143 00:08:17,240 --> 00:08:22,800 Speaker 1: because of that gender segregation, we have people like Edward Glavin, 144 00:08:22,840 --> 00:08:25,200 Speaker 1: who I mentioned at the beginning of the podcast, who 145 00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,200 Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty seven starts up the Society of Registered 146 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:33,200 Speaker 1: Male Nurses because he was outraged pretty much the lack 147 00:08:33,240 --> 00:08:38,160 Speaker 1: of educational opportunities for men who wanted to pursue nursing. 148 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: And also in the US, I thought this was interesting. 149 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:45,440 Speaker 1: It wasn't until nineteen seventy one that men in the 150 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: American Men formed a similar association called the American Assembly 151 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:53,640 Speaker 1: for Men in Nursing. But because that stereotype gets set 152 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 1: so quickly after Florence Nightingale takes charge of this nursing profession, 153 00:08:58,160 --> 00:09:01,400 Speaker 1: you know, they become they're such minorities, and when when 154 00:09:01,400 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: a male wants to pursue nursing, they quickly get labeled 155 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:07,240 Speaker 1: as an other. There's a huge stereotype that male nurses 156 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:11,520 Speaker 1: are gay um. So you know, pretty much through the 157 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:15,120 Speaker 1: early nine to about nineteen sixty, that's that's the stereotype, 158 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:16,800 Speaker 1: is there's something wrong with the man who wants to 159 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:18,719 Speaker 1: be a nurse. He should probably be a doctor. Right. 160 00:09:18,760 --> 00:09:22,760 Speaker 1: And even still, male nurses are excluded from helping out 161 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:26,440 Speaker 1: with obstetrics work, um, childbirth things like that. Like when 162 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,080 Speaker 1: you think about the maternity ward and you go see 163 00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 1: the room with all little babies in it, and who's 164 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:33,199 Speaker 1: taking care of them? Female nurses? You don't see male 165 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:34,760 Speaker 1: nurses up in there, right. And you know, I was 166 00:09:34,800 --> 00:09:36,800 Speaker 1: reading one article where a male nurse was talking about 167 00:09:36,840 --> 00:09:39,160 Speaker 1: how he worked in pediatrics and he'd walk in to 168 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:40,679 Speaker 1: take care of the child, and the child say, you're 169 00:09:40,679 --> 00:09:42,800 Speaker 1: not a woman. I mean, it's it's ingrained so early 170 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: on that your nurse is going to be female. So 171 00:09:46,480 --> 00:09:49,160 Speaker 1: now we're up to about nineteen sixts it's a problem. 172 00:09:49,240 --> 00:09:52,480 Speaker 1: Men like Edward Glavener try and deal with it. Along 173 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:56,160 Speaker 1: comes Second Way feminism. I feel like this this transition 174 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:59,120 Speaker 1: along comes Second Way Feminism seven and so many of 175 00:09:59,160 --> 00:10:03,200 Speaker 1: our podcasts. But it really, you know, it's significant because 176 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,120 Speaker 1: here here's a statistic that we found in a study 177 00:10:06,120 --> 00:10:09,880 Speaker 1: in the Journal of Advanced Nursing from nineteen fifty eight 178 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,600 Speaker 1: to nineteen sixty only one percent of nurses were men, 179 00:10:13,760 --> 00:10:16,760 Speaker 1: but in comparison, six and a half percent of physicians 180 00:10:16,800 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 1: and two percent of dentists were women. So we're starting 181 00:10:20,520 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: to see the shift of women breaking through the more 182 00:10:24,120 --> 00:10:29,600 Speaker 1: male dominated um medical fields and two doctors being doctors 183 00:10:29,600 --> 00:10:34,480 Speaker 1: and dentists, whereas men are still having so much trouble 184 00:10:34,559 --> 00:10:38,480 Speaker 1: breaking into this female industry. Right. And you know what 185 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: a lot of people wish would have happened is that 186 00:10:40,679 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: when these feminists came along and started saying, hey, women, 187 00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:46,040 Speaker 1: you can be the best you can be. You can 188 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:48,520 Speaker 1: be a doctor, you educated, don't be a nurse, don't 189 00:10:48,520 --> 00:10:50,600 Speaker 1: be a sissy nurse, be a doctor, you really put 190 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:52,920 Speaker 1: down the field of nursing because they were like, women 191 00:10:52,960 --> 00:10:55,280 Speaker 1: have always been nurses, so there must be something wrong 192 00:10:55,320 --> 00:10:58,199 Speaker 1: with it. And I think that has really hurt the feeld. 193 00:10:58,240 --> 00:10:59,719 Speaker 1: Like with the Home Back podcast, I think this is 194 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:01,720 Speaker 1: a which faults of stuct my feminism is that they 195 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,120 Speaker 1: didn't bring men into nursing and they only urged women 196 00:11:05,160 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: to become doctors, because nursing and being a doctor to 197 00:11:09,640 --> 00:11:12,440 Speaker 1: different professions, right, and while I can see that it's 198 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,600 Speaker 1: troubling to h here Florence Nightingale say things like, well, 199 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:21,160 Speaker 1: women are meant to be nurses because we're just natural caregivers, 200 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: you know, we're just maternal giving people, so we're we're 201 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:26,280 Speaker 1: cut out for this kind of work. I can see 202 00:11:26,280 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: all that's difficult, but you can't have a problem with that, 203 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,040 Speaker 1: and just at the same by the same token, disregard 204 00:11:32,120 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: all of the contributions to healthcare and uh medical history 205 00:11:37,640 --> 00:11:41,280 Speaker 1: that nurses have provided for us. And what the feminists 206 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:43,720 Speaker 1: do is they kind of see medicine as a hierarchy 207 00:11:43,760 --> 00:11:45,880 Speaker 1: with the nurses at the very bottom, which is, you know, 208 00:11:46,000 --> 00:11:49,160 Speaker 1: often how they're paid. They receive low salaries in a hospital, 209 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:51,600 Speaker 1: they might be seen on the lowest round despite doing 210 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,120 Speaker 1: so much of the work. But the feminists very much 211 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 1: see this hierarchy where it's nursing at the bottom, doctors 212 00:11:57,000 --> 00:11:59,240 Speaker 1: at the top. So naturally they want all the women 213 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 1: who are interested in me to become doctors. And it 214 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,160 Speaker 1: really hurts the nursing profession because it further sort of 215 00:12:04,200 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 1: stigmatizes it as something that you know, is something that 216 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: you know, the lowest of the low do despite the 217 00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 1: fact that it's a very meaningful profession that we need, 218 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: you know, our best people in ingriding men, right, And 219 00:12:18,080 --> 00:12:20,680 Speaker 1: I mean just thinking about it when you and I 220 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: were chatting about this topic earlier, I mean, how how 221 00:12:24,600 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 1: often do you see a nurse practitioner compared to a doctor? 222 00:12:27,880 --> 00:12:30,520 Speaker 1: So much more often? I know my nurse much better 223 00:12:30,559 --> 00:12:33,400 Speaker 1: than I know my doctor. And because of this, in 224 00:12:34,960 --> 00:12:38,480 Speaker 1: the Nurse Delegates um U in the British Public Service 225 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:42,439 Speaker 1: Union elected to drop the image of Fort Florence Nightingale 226 00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,520 Speaker 1: as the patron Saint of nurses because they felt that 227 00:12:46,559 --> 00:12:51,440 Speaker 1: she represents a quote negative and backward element of nursing. 228 00:12:51,880 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: And it's just interesting to think about this, this tension 229 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: within the nursing field, because from the public perspective, we 230 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,400 Speaker 1: think of Florence Nightingale is this wonderful figures, the lady 231 00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:04,400 Speaker 1: with the lamb. She was one of the most revered 232 00:13:04,480 --> 00:13:08,040 Speaker 1: figures in popular women's history, so of course that's great, 233 00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 1: but once you get into acual nursing, and one of 234 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:13,839 Speaker 1: the reasons that group sided for dropping Nightingale was that she, 235 00:13:14,160 --> 00:13:17,959 Speaker 1: you know, didn't really recognize the value of mental health nursing, which, 236 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: as we mentioned, where all the men were stuck. And 237 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 1: you know, she was sort of that pioneer of nursing 238 00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 1: comes naturally to women, not men, So you know, maybe 239 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: idolizing her leaves the men out of it. But you 240 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: know it's interesting, is uh this paper that you talked 241 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: about in the Journal of Events Nursing, Kristen talked about how, 242 00:13:34,600 --> 00:13:37,600 Speaker 1: you know, wars or times when men can become nurses 243 00:13:37,640 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: just because it's so needed. Um, but the way that 244 00:13:40,480 --> 00:13:43,400 Speaker 1: they attract men is so much different than the way 245 00:13:43,400 --> 00:13:45,839 Speaker 1: that they try to recruit women. You know, there were 246 00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,080 Speaker 1: a lot of examples of during the war, they'd have 247 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:51,600 Speaker 1: like these really manly posters like be a man, be 248 00:13:51,679 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: a nurse. Yeah, are you men enough to be a nurse? 249 00:13:54,320 --> 00:13:56,480 Speaker 1: Like do you love science, then you will be a 250 00:13:56,480 --> 00:13:59,000 Speaker 1: good nurse, whereas women were not recruited with things like 251 00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,920 Speaker 1: science and going to war. You know, women were told 252 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:03,640 Speaker 1: this is a job that you can do and have 253 00:14:03,720 --> 00:14:06,560 Speaker 1: a family because you can move wherever, your husband a job, 254 00:14:06,920 --> 00:14:08,760 Speaker 1: you can schedule your work around the time your kids 255 00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:12,080 Speaker 1: are in school, whereas men, you know, very quickly to 256 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,079 Speaker 1: get men into the field, people were saying, well, you 257 00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:15,800 Speaker 1: can be in charge of all the nurses. You can 258 00:14:15,840 --> 00:14:17,520 Speaker 1: be a male nurse and be in charge because you've 259 00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:19,720 Speaker 1: got the caring skills, but you've also got all those 260 00:14:19,720 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: masculine skills that the female nurses still have, right and 261 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:26,080 Speaker 1: that and that family friendly angle of nurses. That's you know, 262 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,960 Speaker 1: that marketing pitch to two women to become nurses is 263 00:14:29,000 --> 00:14:33,440 Speaker 1: yet another point of tension between feminism and nursing, because 264 00:14:34,000 --> 00:14:35,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's like, well why, you know, well, why 265 00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:38,320 Speaker 1: should we why should the women have to be the 266 00:14:38,360 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: ones only looking out for you know, how their profession 267 00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:46,480 Speaker 1: fits into their family lifestyle. And this article makes the 268 00:14:46,520 --> 00:14:49,480 Speaker 1: point Kristen that you know, because of the reason that 269 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:53,360 Speaker 1: uh nursing with saltswoman is this family friendly position. That 270 00:14:53,480 --> 00:14:55,800 Speaker 1: was even more reason that if you had a male nurse, 271 00:14:55,920 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: to put him in charge, because he wouldn't have to 272 00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,960 Speaker 1: worry about his family, he could be the administrator who 273 00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 1: is there forty hours a week, whereas you know, you 274 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:06,360 Speaker 1: can't depend on the female nurse. So even in trying 275 00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:09,040 Speaker 1: to get more male nurses involved and putting them in 276 00:15:09,120 --> 00:15:12,160 Speaker 1: leadership roles, it kind of just steps over the women 277 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,880 Speaker 1: who had already been serving as nurses for all those years. 278 00:15:17,040 --> 00:15:20,800 Speaker 1: And even though there are those lingering stereotypes about you know, 279 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:25,000 Speaker 1: the gay lord fokker thing with with male nurses. It's 280 00:15:25,040 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: a good idea for people male or female to pursue 281 00:15:28,840 --> 00:15:32,280 Speaker 1: nursing because it is one of the fastest growing industry 282 00:15:32,320 --> 00:15:37,520 Speaker 1: sectors in the US the aging baby bimmer population. So 283 00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 1: you know, the medical field needs nurses, and nursing is 284 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,760 Speaker 1: certainly not a one size fits all kind of profession. 285 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: They're not only different um duties and different settings for 286 00:15:49,560 --> 00:15:53,360 Speaker 1: nursing obviously, but there are also different educational avenues that 287 00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: you can get in with from a from licensed practical nursing, 288 00:15:56,720 --> 00:15:59,520 Speaker 1: it's more of an on the job training under the 289 00:15:59,520 --> 00:16:02,520 Speaker 1: supervisi and of registered nurses and physicians all the way 290 00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:07,160 Speaker 1: up to advance practice registered nurse and doctoral degree so 291 00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:09,640 Speaker 1: you can get your PhD in nursing. Right, you can 292 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:11,680 Speaker 1: do just a realm of education opportunities, and then you 293 00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:14,520 Speaker 1: can have your choice of a wide array of ride 294 00:16:14,560 --> 00:16:17,440 Speaker 1: array of places to work from a hospital, UH, a 295 00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:19,840 Speaker 1: doctor's office or clinic and nursing home. You can work 296 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,560 Speaker 1: in other people's home as a home nurse. I can 297 00:16:22,560 --> 00:16:24,520 Speaker 1: work in public health. You can work in an office 298 00:16:24,600 --> 00:16:28,440 Speaker 1: taking care of office workers, so it's such this it's 299 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,840 Speaker 1: such a broad career. Anyone who's ever been to a 300 00:16:30,880 --> 00:16:33,760 Speaker 1: doctor or hospital knows how much work these these nurses do. 301 00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: But you know, that stigma still remains, not just for 302 00:16:36,320 --> 00:16:38,520 Speaker 1: male nurses, but kind of for all nurses. Yeah, just 303 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,960 Speaker 1: the idea of them being subordinate to their the doctor's subordinates, right, 304 00:16:43,040 --> 00:16:44,600 Speaker 1: And it's just and you know a lot of people 305 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:47,160 Speaker 1: say that that is because that that that stigma persists 306 00:16:47,200 --> 00:16:49,960 Speaker 1: because it is quote unquote women's work, that it's something 307 00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:51,520 Speaker 1: that all women can do because they can all just 308 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 1: take care of your blah blah, no big deal, And 309 00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:57,480 Speaker 1: it's really unfortunate. I wish that uh we can right here, 310 00:16:57,560 --> 00:16:59,600 Speaker 1: you and I can give nurses the shout out that 311 00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:01,920 Speaker 1: they deserve, though I'm sure they would rather take a 312 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,280 Speaker 1: bigger salary or more respect from their coworkers. But nurse 313 00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: as we silly you. Yeah, maybe you know, instead of 314 00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: on the on the sitcom that everyone loves to hate Scrubs, 315 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:15,320 Speaker 1: perhaps they could have had Zach Brass character be training 316 00:17:15,359 --> 00:17:17,840 Speaker 1: for a nurse instead of a doctor and really gotten 317 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,159 Speaker 1: a gender friendly message home to all of the people 318 00:17:21,200 --> 00:17:24,840 Speaker 1: out there watching. Just an idea, I mean, if if 319 00:17:24,840 --> 00:17:28,040 Speaker 1: only we had sitcom time machines, Molly, the things that 320 00:17:28,080 --> 00:17:30,520 Speaker 1: we could do well Christmas. I once learned from a 321 00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,960 Speaker 1: popular hit song, the future is still on written. So 322 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: one of our listeners out there might have the perfect 323 00:17:36,920 --> 00:17:40,160 Speaker 1: idea for a new show that will highlight the plight 324 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:45,080 Speaker 1: of male and female ourselves. I'd watch it. I await, 325 00:17:45,160 --> 00:17:48,199 Speaker 1: I await your contributions listener. And you know, Chris and 326 00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,159 Speaker 1: I did want to read one email that touched on 327 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: something you brought up. This is an email from Meg 328 00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:58,000 Speaker 1: and she writes about something we often do on the 329 00:17:58,000 --> 00:18:00,480 Speaker 1: podcast where when we talk about a health issue, we 330 00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,959 Speaker 1: often end with, you know, talk to your doctor, make 331 00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,240 Speaker 1: a doctor's appointment. You know, we say that a lot 332 00:18:05,240 --> 00:18:09,119 Speaker 1: because we're not medical experts. She writes, I realized that 333 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:11,400 Speaker 1: I haven't visited with an empty at my doctor's office 334 00:18:11,400 --> 00:18:14,280 Speaker 1: in the last ten years. I have changed practices, visited 335 00:18:14,320 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: different clients in different states, and the pattern is still 336 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,080 Speaker 1: the same. I always see a nurse practitioner or an 337 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:23,359 Speaker 1: advanced practice r in um. I wait the time when 338 00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:25,919 Speaker 1: I will hear you say, make an appointment with your 339 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:28,439 Speaker 1: nurse practitioner. So we should start doing that on our 340 00:18:28,440 --> 00:18:32,800 Speaker 1: health podcast more inclusive see see a Medical Professional. Thank 341 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 1: you Meg. Maybe two days of the Day, beginning of 342 00:18:36,720 --> 00:18:40,560 Speaker 1: the future that is yet unwritten. Well, I've got a podcast. 343 00:18:40,680 --> 00:18:45,320 Speaker 1: Oh not a podcast, I've got an email here on 344 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,760 Speaker 1: our episode on whether it costs more to be a woman, 345 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:50,280 Speaker 1: And this is from Ros. I will say, I'm just 346 00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:51,920 Speaker 1: gonna get a shout out to Ros right now. Rose 347 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:55,800 Speaker 1: is a very responsible listener. And Rose made an excellent 348 00:18:55,840 --> 00:19:00,960 Speaker 1: point about this episode in which Ross says, I noticed 349 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,440 Speaker 1: in your podcast there was no mention of car insurance. 350 00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: This is based on sex based pricing that is openly described. 351 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: Just because I am a male, I need to pay 352 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:13,840 Speaker 1: more for car insurance. I would think this example would 353 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:16,000 Speaker 1: be worthy of discussion in the podcast, and it would 354 00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,360 Speaker 1: have been. And yes, we did not deliberately overlook it. 355 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,360 Speaker 1: It just didn't come up. So what do you guys think? 356 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,240 Speaker 1: Should men have to pay more for car insurance just 357 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:30,000 Speaker 1: because they are met? While taking into account that men 358 00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,600 Speaker 1: are statistically more likely to get into car Rex, you 359 00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:36,600 Speaker 1: guys are more serious ones, serious ones. Yeah, you guys 360 00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 1: are a little more miracles drivers statistically, But should they 361 00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,400 Speaker 1: just have to pay more based on their gender? Well, 362 00:19:44,400 --> 00:19:49,200 Speaker 1: if we say yes, that's that's sexism. So no, I 363 00:19:49,200 --> 00:19:52,600 Speaker 1: should be on driving record. Yeah. So there yea question answered. 364 00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:55,240 Speaker 1: So if you have any questions you'd like else to answer, 365 00:19:55,280 --> 00:19:57,040 Speaker 1: you can send us an email at mom Stuff at 366 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 1: how stuff works dot com. 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