WEBVTT - The World of eSports 0:00:12.720 --> 0:00:20.560 Technology with tech Stuff from dot com. Hey there, and 0:00:20.600 --> 0:00:23.919 welcome to tech Stuff. I am your host, Jonathan Strickland. 0:00:24.000 --> 0:00:28.840 I'm a podcaster y'all over at how stuff Works dot com. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.240 And if you've been listening to the show, you know 0:00:31.480 --> 0:00:34.920 I absolutely adore technology. I can't shut up about it, 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:37.479 which is great because that's what they pay me before. 0:00:37.880 --> 0:00:41.919 Am I Right? So today I wanted to kind of 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.400 conclude sort of the episodes that have been leading up 0:00:45.440 --> 0:00:48.560 to this point. I did a three part series about 0:00:48.560 --> 0:00:53.199 the history of Valve, a very influential company in the 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:57.400 realm of PC gaining. I did an episode about eye 0:00:57.440 --> 0:01:01.560 tracking technology, which is a it's a technology. It's used 0:01:01.600 --> 0:01:03.560 for lots of different stuff, but one of the things 0:01:03.600 --> 0:01:06.240 that's being used for is analysis and another is for 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:09.360 a user interface, and we talked a little bit about 0:01:09.400 --> 0:01:12.600 its application toward gaming in that last episode. But today 0:01:12.760 --> 0:01:17.080 we're gonna talk specifically about the realm of professional gaming 0:01:17.440 --> 0:01:20.640 and professional gaming leagues, as well as how eye tracking 0:01:20.640 --> 0:01:26.880 technology is integrated into that world these days. So think 0:01:26.920 --> 0:01:32.120 of this as the conclusion of that that loosely serialized 0:01:32.360 --> 0:01:36.160 series of episodes, and then after this one, our next 0:01:36.200 --> 0:01:39.880 episode will probably be about something completely unrelated. So if 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:45.199 you are uh satisfied, satiated, let us say with video 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:48.600 game content, fear not. We will cover something different in 0:01:48.600 --> 0:01:51.800 our next episode. If you love video game content, fear not. 0:01:52.480 --> 0:01:55.360 Eventually I'll get back to it. It'll happen because it 0:01:55.400 --> 0:01:58.240 plays a big role in tech. Now let's talk about 0:01:58.360 --> 0:02:02.280 E sports. I've covered related topics, including some way back 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.240 in the old days of tech stuff, when Chris Poulette 0:02:04.240 --> 0:02:06.400 and I used to shout our podcast from the top 0:02:06.440 --> 0:02:08.720 of a building in Buckhead in Atlanta, and the only 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:10.200 way you could hear it was if you were in 0:02:10.240 --> 0:02:14.200 the general neighborhood. There is a classic episode titled Can 0:02:14.280 --> 0:02:18.000 You Make a Living Playing Games? And that original episode 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:23.480 came out on July two thousand eleven. Holy cow, guys, 0:02:23.480 --> 0:02:26.520 I've been doing this show a long time. The answer, 0:02:26.560 --> 0:02:29.880 by the way, is yes, you can make money playing 0:02:30.000 --> 0:02:33.400 video games if you're good enough. We're gonna talk a 0:02:33.440 --> 0:02:38.160 bit today about the industry around competitive professional video game players, 0:02:38.200 --> 0:02:40.440 better known as e sports. I'll have a chance to 0:02:40.480 --> 0:02:43.799 chat with Robert o'kelleeny, VP of E sports products over 0:02:44.440 --> 0:02:47.720 at Turner Sports, and later on I'll also chat with 0:02:47.880 --> 0:02:51.120 Brian Desaias and David Chen of alien Ware to talk 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.200 about the use of eye tracking tech and e sports 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.040 and how it can enhance the experience. We've got a 0:02:56.040 --> 0:03:00.200 lot of wonderful folks who gave over their time, him 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.720 and their expertise to help make this episode happen. So 0:03:03.760 --> 0:03:06.280 big thanks to all of them, and I can't wait 0:03:06.280 --> 0:03:07.520 for you guys to hear what they have to say, 0:03:07.520 --> 0:03:10.520 because they're really fascinating people. But before we dive into that, 0:03:10.600 --> 0:03:14.079 it's always fun, at least for me anyway, to talk 0:03:14.120 --> 0:03:16.840 about the history of whatever the subject is at hand. 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:21.600 So how old do you think e sports to be. 0:03:22.280 --> 0:03:24.799 Do you think it rose up in the nineties, like 0:03:25.280 --> 0:03:27.960 maybe the late nineties over in South Korea, or maybe 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.079 you would go back to like the nineteen eighties when 0:03:30.080 --> 0:03:33.800 people like Billy Mitchell established world record high scores and 0:03:33.919 --> 0:03:38.320 arcade games like pac Man. Well, depending upon your definition 0:03:38.360 --> 0:03:41.200 of e sports, the real birth of the industry dates 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:47.120 back to nineteen seventy two. That's when students at Stanford 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:52.560 University pitted their lead gaming skills and tournament of Space 0:03:52.600 --> 0:03:56.240 war Now. Steve Russell had led a small group of 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:59.560 designers way back in nineteen sixty two to create Space 0:03:59.560 --> 0:04:01.320 War with it was one of the first examples of 0:04:01.320 --> 0:04:05.000 a computer game to use a dynamic display. Now Ever, 0:04:05.080 --> 0:04:07.800 since we've had computers, people have been trying to figure 0:04:07.800 --> 0:04:10.120 out ways to make those computers do stuff that they 0:04:10.160 --> 0:04:13.200 weren't intended to do, like play games. The original computers 0:04:13.240 --> 0:04:15.680 weren't meant to do that. But you get enough people 0:04:15.680 --> 0:04:20.919 who are mathematically gifted together and they start thinking about 0:04:21.000 --> 0:04:25.159 the potential for math to do practically anything. Eventually they're 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:29.120 going to start creating programs that play games, including things 0:04:29.120 --> 0:04:32.400 like Tic Tac toe. But it wasn't until the nineteen 0:04:32.480 --> 0:04:35.279 sixties that people were looking at the potential of creating 0:04:35.320 --> 0:04:39.080 displays for computers. Otherwise, you were getting readouts that were 0:04:39.080 --> 0:04:42.000 either on paper or sometimes just a bank of lights 0:04:42.000 --> 0:04:44.039 would light up a specific way, and that's how you 0:04:44.080 --> 0:04:47.520 knew what the output was of whatever your input was. 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:52.039 So Space War was one of these early, early, early 0:04:52.080 --> 0:04:55.560 examples of a game that uses such a dynamic display. 0:04:55.600 --> 0:04:59.280 Players would control one of two spaceships. There was one 0:04:59.360 --> 0:05:02.320 called the knee and one called the wedge, and they 0:05:02.360 --> 0:05:06.000 were called that because obviously of their their shapes, and 0:05:06.880 --> 0:05:10.080 these spaceships could fly around in a two dimensional plane, 0:05:11.000 --> 0:05:13.919 so you can fly along that x y axis, but 0:05:14.000 --> 0:05:16.200 not the Z There was no third dimension to this, 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:19.400 and it looked like a little space field and you 0:05:19.400 --> 0:05:22.040 were technically you were flying around the gravity well of 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:25.279 a star so there was this gravitational effect that came 0:05:25.279 --> 0:05:28.279 into play with the game, and your whole goal was 0:05:28.320 --> 0:05:31.800 to destroy the other starship. So it was a player 0:05:31.960 --> 0:05:36.159 versus player game that came out in nineteen sixty two, 0:05:36.200 --> 0:05:38.120 and by came out, I mean it was developed for 0:05:38.279 --> 0:05:42.200 a what at that time amounted to a supercomputer, and 0:05:42.240 --> 0:05:44.599 if you also happen to have a supercomputer and you 0:05:44.640 --> 0:05:47.360 could get a copy of the code, you could install 0:05:47.480 --> 0:05:51.000 and play that game yourself, not even installed, run the game. 0:05:51.080 --> 0:05:53.920 It's not really even installation because we're not talking about 0:05:53.960 --> 0:05:57.560 a hard disk at this point. By nineteen seventy two, 0:05:57.760 --> 0:06:01.520 several engineering and computer science schools had a version of 0:06:01.560 --> 0:06:04.560 this game, and then the tournament was born. The grand 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:08.440 prize for this tournament back in nineteen seventy two was 0:06:08.520 --> 0:06:13.320 a whole year's subscription to Rolling Stone magazine. The tournament 0:06:13.320 --> 0:06:17.280 itself took place in the Stanford Artificial Intelligence Lab, so 0:06:17.400 --> 0:06:19.840 one of the most important events to ever take place 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.000 in that ai lab in the history of mankind as 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:25.080 far as I'm concerned. Stewart Brand, who at the time 0:06:25.120 --> 0:06:27.880 was a writer and editor for Rolling Stone, was the 0:06:28.000 --> 0:06:31.840 organizer for this event. His piece in Rolling Stone equated 0:06:31.880 --> 0:06:35.160 the players with athletes in traditional sports, so from the 0:06:35.279 --> 0:06:38.479 very beginning there were parallels. Though at the time the 0:06:38.520 --> 0:06:42.200 treatment might have been a touch tongue in cheek, maybe 0:06:42.240 --> 0:06:46.800 a little playful satirical, But the version that the students 0:06:46.800 --> 0:06:50.760 were playing of Space War was slightly altered from the 0:06:50.800 --> 0:06:53.280 one that debuted back in nineteen sixty two. There was 0:06:53.320 --> 0:06:56.920 a programmer named Ralph Goren who added in a couple 0:06:57.000 --> 0:07:01.160 of elements to the game to make it more competitive 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:03.640 and interesting. He added in the capacity for ships to 0:07:03.680 --> 0:07:06.960 suffer partial damage before being destroyed, so you could take 0:07:07.000 --> 0:07:09.279 more than one hit. And he also threw in some 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.160 space minds, so some obstacles that you could deploy within 0:07:13.240 --> 0:07:16.440 the game field and uh maybe your opponent would fly 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:19.400 into them and destroy himself and that would just make 0:07:19.400 --> 0:07:22.160 the game more interesting to play and watch. By the way, 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.640 Ralph Gordon would later go on to create the world's 0:07:24.720 --> 0:07:27.640 first spell checker. So when you hear about some of 0:07:27.680 --> 0:07:30.160 these people who were involved in this tournament, a lot 0:07:30.160 --> 0:07:32.400 of them went on to do some very important things 0:07:32.520 --> 0:07:36.160 in the realm of technology and computer science. Now. The 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:38.840 winner of that first tournament was a guy named Bruce 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.840 baum Guard, and baum Guard would go on to work 0:07:41.840 --> 0:07:44.520 at the Internet Archive, and later on he would become 0:07:44.560 --> 0:07:48.360 the head of operations at Cool. Ce U I L. 0:07:49.520 --> 0:07:52.400 And you may owe my drugs not remember what Cool is? 0:07:52.520 --> 0:07:56.280 Things changing so scory nowadays and people quick to forget it. 0:07:56.800 --> 0:07:59.280 Cool was one of those companies that when it launched, 0:07:59.280 --> 0:08:02.440 got a lot out of people poking fun at it 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.600 for its name, that c U I L being spelled cool. 0:08:06.000 --> 0:08:09.240 It was a short lived search engine. It did not 0:08:09.640 --> 0:08:14.160 last very long. It had really long entries, so when 0:08:14.160 --> 0:08:17.440 you did a search, you would get the results with 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:22.679 very long descriptors of what those search results were, plus 0:08:22.720 --> 0:08:26.000 a thumbnail that would appear next to every search result. 0:08:26.960 --> 0:08:29.600 But it just didn't catch on. It ended up shutting 0:08:29.640 --> 0:08:33.439 down in September. But while Cool would come and go, 0:08:34.200 --> 0:08:37.120 video game tournaments were really here to stay, and whether 0:08:37.200 --> 0:08:40.439 they were informal or they were big twodues, they continued 0:08:40.880 --> 0:08:44.720 largely beneath the notice of the general public. The introduction 0:08:44.720 --> 0:08:47.400 of the personal computer and various gaming systems in the 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:50.040 nineteen eighties helped a little bits, as as did the 0:08:50.120 --> 0:08:53.000 rise of the arcade, but by and large, video game 0:08:53.040 --> 0:08:56.920 competitions remain confined to a niche audience. In the late 0:08:57.000 --> 0:09:01.760 ninet nineties, gaming had reached a new level, largely because 0:09:01.800 --> 0:09:04.960 personal computers were much more common, and this would be 0:09:05.000 --> 0:09:08.320 the early days of the high powered graphics processing units 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:12.480 or gp us, those dedicated graphics cards, which were the 0:09:12.520 --> 0:09:15.280 devices that were actually giving computers the horsepower needed to 0:09:15.360 --> 0:09:19.160 run games that had three dimensional graphics, so stuff like Quake, 0:09:19.840 --> 0:09:21.840 and in fact, one of the earliest tournaments of this 0:09:21.960 --> 0:09:25.199 time was a Quake competition. It was held in nine 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:30.480 and the organization holding it was read Annihilation. It drew 0:09:30.559 --> 0:09:34.840 two thousand participants and the prize was a doozy. If 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:37.880 you won, you got to go home with a Ferrari 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.640 that once belonged to John Carmack. He was one of 0:09:40.679 --> 0:09:48.480 the lead developers of Quake. On June seven, Angel Manuals 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:52.960 founded the cyber Athlete Professional League or the CPL. This 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.559 was a group that organized various tournaments and pioneered the 0:09:56.640 --> 0:10:00.920 field of e sports. Professional tournaments. It operated out of 0:10:00.920 --> 0:10:03.320 the United States until two thousand eight, when the company 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.920 nearly dissolved due to an overcrowded scene, got acquired and 0:10:06.920 --> 0:10:10.040 then sort of relaunched in China. But in just a 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:13.960 decade we saw that the environment had changed from a 0:10:14.000 --> 0:10:19.079 curiosity into a pretty big industry. This cyber Athlete Professional 0:10:19.160 --> 0:10:22.760 League went from being the only game in town pun 0:10:22.760 --> 0:10:27.200 intended to being a a fish in a very large 0:10:27.240 --> 0:10:34.400 pond that was growing completely beyond what it originally was. Now. 0:10:34.440 --> 0:10:40.040 Early on, the emphasis in these tournaments was on first 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:44.400 person shooter games games like Quake. Then sports titles also 0:10:44.520 --> 0:10:47.880 became popular in tournament play. Then you might get things 0:10:47.920 --> 0:10:50.280 like fighting games. They popped up a little bit later, 0:10:50.480 --> 0:10:54.280 and then real time strategy genre games joined the ranks, 0:10:54.280 --> 0:10:57.600 and that's when the game StarCraft brood War rose to 0:10:57.679 --> 0:11:01.600 prominence in the tournament scene. While tournaments were still largely 0:11:01.600 --> 0:11:03.640 a niche interest in the United States and other parts 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:06.160 of the world, they had become incredibly popular, and one 0:11:06.200 --> 0:11:09.679 of those regions was South Korea. South Korea has two 0:11:09.720 --> 0:11:14.320 big game channels, on game Net and NBC Game, both 0:11:14.320 --> 0:11:17.880 of which created leagues of professional StarCraft players who would 0:11:17.880 --> 0:11:21.559 compete against each other for prizes. The country takes professional 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:25.040 gaming extremely seriously. In fact, when a scandal broke out 0:11:25.080 --> 0:11:29.439 in that some StarCraft players were purposefully throwing games as 0:11:29.480 --> 0:11:33.439 part of a gambling scheme, the government levied harsh punishments 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:36.400 against the accused players, all of whom were banned for 0:11:36.559 --> 0:11:41.240 life from professional StarCraft competition. In two thousand, the World 0:11:41.240 --> 0:11:44.840 Cyber Games and Electronics Sports World Cup both launched, and 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:48.280 they gave professional gaming a bigger spotlight. Two years later, 0:11:48.320 --> 0:11:52.240 the Major League Gaming Professional Game League launched, and since 0:11:52.280 --> 0:11:55.240 then professional video game leagues have been picking up speed. 0:11:55.640 --> 0:11:58.560 We've also seen other types of games into this realm, 0:11:58.600 --> 0:12:03.080 including MOBA's things like Dota Too and Smite and League 0:12:03.080 --> 0:12:06.959 of Legends. Those have become enormously popular in the professional 0:12:07.080 --> 0:12:11.120 gaming league scene. In recent years, we've also seen a 0:12:11.160 --> 0:12:14.600 big push coming from major broadcasters to elevate professional video 0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.880 game tournaments. I had a chance to speak with Robert Ocellini, 0:12:18.120 --> 0:12:23.520 who overseas eleague at Turner to talk about it now. Robert, 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:27.040 thank you so much for joining us on text stuff. 0:12:27.160 --> 0:12:31.400 I want to kind of get an idea about how 0:12:31.559 --> 0:12:34.400 eligue came about, and uh and and sort of get 0:12:34.440 --> 0:12:37.400 an idea of how it's evolved and and what you 0:12:37.480 --> 0:12:41.600 have seen so far in that space. Because while e sports, 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.360 I think, uh, it's something that more and more people 0:12:44.400 --> 0:12:47.520 are are aware of, it's still sort of an emerging 0:12:48.160 --> 0:12:51.360 kind of form of entertainment for a large part of 0:12:51.400 --> 0:12:56.439 the mainstream audience. I think that's changing, especially among younger demographics. 0:12:56.480 --> 0:12:58.800 I think they're far more aware, especially now that we're 0:12:58.800 --> 0:13:02.480 seeing video games being used as a form just the 0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.560 playing of video games being used as a form of 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:09.359 entertainment throughout lots of different platforms. But tell me specifically 0:13:09.520 --> 0:13:14.200 about E League, sure, So, Uh, Eleague was first announced 0:13:14.920 --> 0:13:19.280 about two years ago. Um, it actually wasn't called Elague 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:21.680 at the time. We didn't have a name yet. Um, 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.320 but we were working on it, I would say, for 0:13:24.480 --> 0:13:29.520 probably six months or so before that, uh September two 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:34.920 thousand fifteen announcement. Um. And really it came from the 0:13:35.000 --> 0:13:38.400 sort of interest came from the very senior levels of 0:13:38.600 --> 0:13:43.640 Turner so h Kevin Riley, who is the head of 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:47.040 TBS and T and T came to the company with 0:13:47.120 --> 0:13:51.080 a lot of contacts and gaming Um, and you know 0:13:51.160 --> 0:13:54.280 he's in l A and E sports has really taken 0:13:54.320 --> 0:13:58.600 off in Los Angeles, and so he came in with 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:00.920 a lot of interest and he's sports. And then from 0:14:00.920 --> 0:14:04.800 the Turner Sports side, you know, Lenny Daniels and David 0:14:04.880 --> 0:14:09.079 Levy UM had had a lot of interest in the space. 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:13.800 They saw, you know, they kept hearing that this space 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:17.640 was developing. They kind of saw what was happening. And 0:14:17.640 --> 0:14:21.360 and actually at first, UM at the time, I was 0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:25.080 working on the NBA's digital products here. I did seven 0:14:25.120 --> 0:14:29.120 seasons working on the NBA mobile apps and over the 0:14:29.160 --> 0:14:32.920 top apps and NBA League Pass UM and for a 0:14:32.960 --> 0:14:36.400 little while as a part time job, I was actually 0:14:36.440 --> 0:14:40.640 going to meetings and working on this, and you know, 0:14:40.720 --> 0:14:44.200 sort of my background is more in digital product but 0:14:44.880 --> 0:14:48.800 I'm a lifelong gamer and very interested in competitive gaming 0:14:49.480 --> 0:14:53.080 and was actually the GM of competitive World of Warcraft 0:14:53.120 --> 0:14:57.440 Guild UM. So I kind of had my own long 0:14:57.760 --> 0:15:02.120 history with with gaming and and E sports UM on 0:15:02.200 --> 0:15:05.240 the fan side and on the playing side. UM. So 0:15:05.320 --> 0:15:07.680 I kind of was able to bring that to the 0:15:07.720 --> 0:15:11.440 table UM as we looked into this, and then I 0:15:11.480 --> 0:15:17.840 think probably around uh the beginning of July July, we 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.120 sort of decided what direction we were going to go 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.120 in and at that time they decided that if I 0:15:24.160 --> 0:15:26.680 wanted to work on this full time, they give me 0:15:26.720 --> 0:15:30.280 that opportunity, and I really haven't looked back, UM, nor 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:34.400 have nor has the company. UM uh. So, you know, 0:15:34.480 --> 0:15:38.280 we we did this deal with I M g U 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.160 Eligue as a joint venture with w M E I MG, 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:46.600 and we started meeting with teams. We actually had a 0:15:46.640 --> 0:15:50.560 big team summit in September because we were really the 0:15:50.640 --> 0:15:55.560 first big media brand to enter into this e sports 0:15:55.560 --> 0:15:57.920 space and we wanted to make sure that we were 0:15:58.080 --> 0:16:03.760 entering it with reverence, UM, with you know, an eye 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.320 towards authenticity. And then of course, you know, we'd already 0:16:07.360 --> 0:16:09.440 decided at that point that we're gonna work with counter 0:16:09.560 --> 0:16:14.440 Strike UM that we were talking to and getting feedback 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:20.000 from the counter strike community. UM. About two months later 0:16:20.120 --> 0:16:23.320 we came up with a name and logo and all 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:26.160 of that stuff and launched our website, and then in 0:16:26.280 --> 0:16:29.880 January of two thousand sixteen, we did our very first 0:16:29.920 --> 0:16:34.960 tournament UM the Road to Vegas, and that was essentially 0:16:35.040 --> 0:16:38.760 sort of an open qualifier for one of the scots 0:16:38.800 --> 0:16:45.120 in our inaugural season. Later in UM we really started 0:16:45.160 --> 0:16:48.360 the league and league play in earnest in May of 0:16:50.200 --> 0:16:54.080 UM with our first counter Strike season. We followed that 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:59.440 up later in Steen we had the opportunity to do 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:05.240 the Overwatch Open. We were like the first big Overwatch tournament, UM, 0:17:05.280 --> 0:17:07.639 and then we did a second season of counter Strike. 0:17:08.320 --> 0:17:11.919 Around that time frame, we were also awarded the first 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:17.600 Counterstrike Major of sen UM and we did that in January, 0:17:17.720 --> 0:17:22.160 and then in in we've we've branched out a little 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:25.960 bit and have done some stuff with Street Fighter. We 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:31.240 did a series a docuseries around uh the International, which 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:35.199 is the big DODA World Championship. And then finally right 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:38.800 now we're running our what is essentially our third counter 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:43.359 Strike season, the Premier UM and you know that's where 0:17:43.480 --> 0:17:47.520 Group D starts tonight, uh and then the finals the 0:17:47.560 --> 0:17:51.720 week of October ten. So you know, it's been, uh, 0:17:51.760 --> 0:17:54.840 it's been kind of a wild ride. We went from 0:17:54.880 --> 0:17:59.800 from you know, nothing and no organization to a thriving 0:18:00.960 --> 0:18:04.840 business with a lot of employees and uh, you know, 0:18:04.920 --> 0:18:07.840 have done a lot of tournaments at this point. UM. 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:10.600 I think you know, the only other thing I'll add 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:14.720 that I shouldn't have gloss over is the amazing studio 0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:19.679 that we built downstairs that's built for e sports, whether 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:22.360 that game is one v one or six v six. 0:18:23.000 --> 0:18:25.760 We have built the studio in a way that um 0:18:25.800 --> 0:18:29.439 it can it can easily support any game that we 0:18:29.480 --> 0:18:32.480 want to do. And then of course we've got all 0:18:32.520 --> 0:18:36.080 of the you know other stuff you would want, practice 0:18:36.119 --> 0:18:40.400 space for the players, a player lounge, first class green 0:18:40.480 --> 0:18:43.760 room for our talent um, and then all the tech 0:18:43.880 --> 0:18:47.440 that you would need to to support doing something like 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.040 a counter Strike tournament, which is a pretty big undertaking 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:56.440 right where every tiny little technical detail can end up 0:18:57.000 --> 0:19:00.919 UH having an influence on actual game play. It is 0:19:00.960 --> 0:19:04.640 really important as well pointing out to my listeners here 0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.720 that by going this route, by having the tournament where 0:19:07.720 --> 0:19:10.640 you've got the system set up where you know you're 0:19:10.680 --> 0:19:16.040 going to have a really good approach to running these games, 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.880 it also means everyone's on equal footing. It doesn't mean 0:19:18.920 --> 0:19:21.920 that you know, you're not worried about someone who's souped 0:19:22.000 --> 0:19:24.560 up their game engine so or their game system so 0:19:24.680 --> 0:19:26.840 much that they're going to have an unfair advantage over 0:19:26.840 --> 0:19:30.320 anyone else. It really does bring it down to skill 0:19:30.400 --> 0:19:33.880 and in the case of games like Counterstrike, really good 0:19:33.920 --> 0:19:39.919 team communication and team UH cooperation I'm really fascinated by this, 0:19:39.960 --> 0:19:44.880 and since you've had experience working in a realm that 0:19:45.000 --> 0:19:49.560 was uh that was focused on traditional sports, something that 0:19:49.640 --> 0:19:52.000 I think a lot of people can can kind of 0:19:52.040 --> 0:19:55.639 get their mind around. For For people who haven't made 0:19:55.720 --> 0:20:01.119 that that step from the idea of well, a professional 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.520 sport where you're playing physically in a on a cord 0:20:05.640 --> 0:20:07.680 or on a field or whatever it may be, that's 0:20:07.720 --> 0:20:10.880 one thing. But professional video game playing, how is that 0:20:11.560 --> 0:20:14.879 something that you How can you consider that person an athlete? Well, 0:20:14.920 --> 0:20:18.119 you've seen both worlds. What's your kind of response to 0:20:18.200 --> 0:20:22.040 that sort of uh, like, if everyone's asking questions or 0:20:22.040 --> 0:20:24.719 if they're just expressing skepticism that someone could be an 0:20:24.760 --> 0:20:27.800 athlete playing video games. By the way, I'm totally on 0:20:27.840 --> 0:20:30.879 the board of professional video games players are on a 0:20:30.960 --> 0:20:35.119 level that is far, far, far beyond the capabilities of 0:20:35.160 --> 0:20:38.240 the average person. I mean, listen, I think that that 0:20:38.400 --> 0:20:43.040 skepticism is a natural, a natural thing, right, Like I 0:20:43.080 --> 0:20:47.879 think with with physical sports, it's very easy to tell 0:20:48.840 --> 0:20:51.600 that I cannot jump as high off the ground as 0:20:51.720 --> 0:20:56.879 Lebron James, right. Um, but me sitting in front of 0:20:56.880 --> 0:21:01.600 a computer, it doesn't look optically any different. Than Olive 0:21:01.720 --> 0:21:05.399 Meister or Faker or any of these sort of top 0:21:05.480 --> 0:21:10.959 tier e sports players. But I will tell you that, UM, 0:21:10.960 --> 0:21:16.920 from a talent perspective, from a commitment perspective, these gentlemen 0:21:16.920 --> 0:21:22.280 are no and women are no different than professional athletes 0:21:22.320 --> 0:21:26.560 and traditional stick and ball sports. They are a cut 0:21:26.600 --> 0:21:31.560 above and you know, you if you were to put 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:36.560 an average or even above average sort of casual video 0:21:36.600 --> 0:21:40.359 game athlete up against these guys, they would just get 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:43.760 completely and utterly wrecked. You know. I think that one 0:21:43.760 --> 0:21:46.280 of the interesting things that we've done here at Turner 0:21:46.760 --> 0:21:50.640 this year is we had an employee tournament for street fighters. 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:55.679 So we did we did this uh six week street 0:21:55.720 --> 0:21:58.720 fighter season where we had the best street fighter players 0:21:58.760 --> 0:22:01.360 in the world come to our camp us and play. 0:22:01.440 --> 0:22:05.040 And then, UM, a couple of weeks after that tournament 0:22:05.080 --> 0:22:10.320 was over, we had an internal tournament that culminated with 0:22:11.119 --> 0:22:13.800 the finals that was played in the very same studio 0:22:13.840 --> 0:22:18.480 where our street Fighter tournament was hosted. UM. And you know, 0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.520 sure enough, Turners a pretty big company. There's some really 0:22:21.560 --> 0:22:27.440 good street fighter players here. But talking to the sort 0:22:27.440 --> 0:22:32.280 of experts that we have on staff, the guy who 0:22:32.320 --> 0:22:36.640 won the tournament would be like the tenth best player 0:22:36.720 --> 0:22:42.440 at a local Atlanta semi professional tournament, and the guy 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:45.080 who would win that tournament wouldn't even be in the 0:22:45.119 --> 0:22:48.639 top hundred in the world. You know, there's there's a 0:22:49.640 --> 0:22:53.520 there's a big difference between the two hundred and fifty 0:22:53.640 --> 0:22:56.560 guys who play counter strike sort of at the top 0:22:56.640 --> 0:23:00.600 level professionally and the seven or eight mill in people 0:23:00.640 --> 0:23:04.840 who play it on a daily basis. UM. So you 0:23:04.840 --> 0:23:07.080 know I'm in definitely you can tell I'm in the 0:23:07.119 --> 0:23:11.360 camp of this is no different than the other sports. 0:23:11.400 --> 0:23:14.960 There's a scarcity of of talent and then the ability 0:23:15.000 --> 0:23:18.600 to sort of focus that. The commitment that it requires 0:23:18.640 --> 0:23:24.080 to play these games at the top level UM is ridiculous. 0:23:25.359 --> 0:23:29.280 I guess the last point I'd make on that is, UM, 0:23:29.320 --> 0:23:32.800 it's also really hard to stay on top. And you 0:23:32.840 --> 0:23:36.880 know there's one team currently that you know, last year 0:23:37.000 --> 0:23:41.840 one I think five tournaments UH during the regular tournament season, 0:23:42.480 --> 0:23:46.439 and this year made it to the finals of the Major. 0:23:47.200 --> 0:23:50.320 But we've seen them slowly declined. The name of the 0:23:50.320 --> 0:23:52.840 team is Burtis Pro and we love them. They won 0:23:52.880 --> 0:23:58.800 our first season, UM, but we've seen them slowly decline 0:23:58.840 --> 0:24:01.720 and they actually didn't make it to the playoffs of 0:24:01.720 --> 0:24:06.359 our current tournament. And I think that that shows like 0:24:06.560 --> 0:24:10.440 just how tight it is at the very top, right, 0:24:10.520 --> 0:24:14.560 Like even just kind of in six months, a team 0:24:14.600 --> 0:24:19.119 can go from being virtually unbeatable over a three or 0:24:19.160 --> 0:24:22.359 four months time period to not even making it to 0:24:22.440 --> 0:24:26.920 the late stages of any tournaments. There's that very top level. 0:24:27.080 --> 0:24:31.080 Is it is the top of the pyramid in every way, 0:24:31.080 --> 0:24:36.560 shape or form. Now in your experience of overseeing these 0:24:36.560 --> 0:24:40.040 things being part of the the E League, Uh, does 0:24:40.080 --> 0:24:42.919 it feel like when there's a tournament going, when you 0:24:42.960 --> 0:24:45.800 have these people at this these very elite levels of 0:24:45.800 --> 0:24:50.080 performance competing against each other. Isn't a similar kind of 0:24:50.080 --> 0:24:55.560 of atmosphere of excitement to watch people at that level play, 0:24:55.600 --> 0:24:59.360 similar to what you might see in a traditional sporting arena. 0:25:00.320 --> 0:25:03.840 I think, you know, I think for so it's there 0:25:03.880 --> 0:25:08.960 are differences there that I would call out right so um, 0:25:09.080 --> 0:25:13.760 for some tournaments, and and I'm not alluding to ours, 0:25:14.080 --> 0:25:17.040 almost all of the competition except for the finals is 0:25:17.080 --> 0:25:21.040 played over the internet, right, and so you know the 0:25:21.080 --> 0:25:27.080 spectator experience there is on twitch and on YouTube, and 0:25:27.880 --> 0:25:31.240 you know that the chat experience is like a proxy 0:25:31.400 --> 0:25:34.679 for the arena, if that makes sense, It most like 0:25:34.680 --> 0:25:38.000 a virtual proxy. I would say, though, at the very 0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:41.000 top level, if you were to were to attend like 0:25:41.119 --> 0:25:44.800 our finals at the Fox Theater in Atlanta for the Major, 0:25:44.960 --> 0:25:47.919 or an e s L one in New York, or 0:25:48.000 --> 0:25:51.240 the finals of a dream Hack, they have all of 0:25:51.280 --> 0:25:59.160 the same trappings and crowd engagement that you know a 0:25:59.160 --> 0:26:03.400 professional Atlanta sports team has. And you know, I go, 0:26:03.880 --> 0:26:06.760 I'm a season ticket holder for our our new MLS team, 0:26:06.800 --> 0:26:10.200 which probably has about as good fan engagement as you 0:26:10.200 --> 0:26:13.640 could possibly have, and it feels the same to me 0:26:13.880 --> 0:26:18.679 as the really rabid fans for the finals of our 0:26:18.760 --> 0:26:21.960 Major or the finals of the Dota to International. I 0:26:22.000 --> 0:26:25.080 went to that this summer too, at Key Arena, which 0:26:25.160 --> 0:26:28.560 is where the Sonics used to play in Seattle. So 0:26:29.080 --> 0:26:32.160 even the same buildings in some case, although I will 0:26:32.240 --> 0:26:36.040 also say those buildings can sometimes not be the best 0:26:36.600 --> 0:26:39.520 venues for watching the sports because you're trying to watch 0:26:39.560 --> 0:26:43.440 on the screen and watch kind of what's going on stage. 0:26:43.760 --> 0:26:45.600 But what's going on on stage a lot of the 0:26:45.640 --> 0:26:50.040 time is some guys in headsets yelling to each other, right, Like, 0:26:50.720 --> 0:26:53.760 the more interesting thing is the combination of what they're 0:26:53.760 --> 0:26:57.960 doing with what's happening on the screen right. Similar to 0:26:58.080 --> 0:27:01.120 what we've seen with various patforms where people are setting 0:27:01.200 --> 0:27:05.040 up webcams to capture their their footage of how they 0:27:05.080 --> 0:27:08.200 react while they're playing games. I imagine something similar is 0:27:08.280 --> 0:27:11.640 useful in this kind of realm. When we come back, 0:27:11.720 --> 0:27:14.560 we'll talk more about the advances and technology that are 0:27:14.600 --> 0:27:17.199 making it easier and more enjoyable to watch gaming as 0:27:17.240 --> 0:27:20.439 a professional sport. But first let's take a quick break 0:27:20.720 --> 0:27:30.480 to thank our sponsor. In a previous episode, I spoke 0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:33.240 with Oscar Warner over at Toby Tech about eye tracking 0:27:33.240 --> 0:27:35.240 technology and we talked a bit about how it could 0:27:35.280 --> 0:27:37.600 be used in professional gaming, but to get a more 0:27:37.720 --> 0:27:40.160 thorough perspective on it, I had a conversation with Brian 0:27:40.240 --> 0:27:43.840 Dazaias and David Chen of alien Ware about how it's 0:27:43.880 --> 0:27:48.360 transforming e sports. Yeah. So, um, one of the things 0:27:48.359 --> 0:27:50.880 that is always doing right. We're always trying to look 0:27:50.920 --> 0:27:53.919 for the the next innovative thing, what's going to help 0:27:55.240 --> 0:27:58.520 whether they're professional or just you know, folks just want 0:27:58.520 --> 0:28:01.120 to have fun playing games. How can they have more 0:28:01.160 --> 0:28:03.040 fun and how can they get better at their games? 0:28:03.520 --> 0:28:05.280 I'm in front, I just make it as the most 0:28:05.280 --> 0:28:08.360 of it as possible. UM. So you know, as as 0:28:08.400 --> 0:28:12.600 we launch and look at new technologies, UM. One of 0:28:12.600 --> 0:28:14.800 the things that was coming down the pike several years ago, 0:28:15.560 --> 0:28:19.280 UM is eye tracking. Now, historically you've thought of eye 0:28:19.280 --> 0:28:23.359 tracking or you know, eye tracking mainly for some cool 0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:27.000 stuff like trying to maybe log into a computer or 0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:30.199 something like that, kind of like facial recognition. UM. But 0:28:30.560 --> 0:28:34.240 as the technologies evolved, as it's gotten smaller, been able 0:28:34.280 --> 0:28:38.640 to put into laptops and things like that. UM. It 0:28:38.760 --> 0:28:43.640 really there's a lot of innovative ways to the things 0:28:43.680 --> 0:28:46.800 we could do as you're just tracking with the eyes looking. 0:28:47.880 --> 0:28:51.240 And so what we started working with Toby on is 0:28:51.240 --> 0:28:54.360 how can we adopt that and tie that into something 0:28:54.440 --> 0:28:58.680 meaningful for gamers. And at the same time, you know, 0:28:58.760 --> 0:29:04.080 we've we've seen an known that gamers are always looking 0:29:04.160 --> 0:29:06.800 for an advantage. So I'll give you an example. You know, 0:29:06.880 --> 0:29:10.160 when most most gamers will at some point, if they're 0:29:10.160 --> 0:29:12.240 really into a game, right, they're gonna go to YouTube 0:29:12.320 --> 0:29:15.560 or they're gonna go onto Twitch, and they're gonna try 0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:17.200 and get better at their game. They're gonna look at 0:29:17.240 --> 0:29:20.160 tips and tricks and you know, I'm maybe doing it today. 0:29:20.560 --> 0:29:24.800 I'm I'm heavily invested in pub G and um it 0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:27.400 seems like every other day, every day, I'm trying to see, 0:29:27.400 --> 0:29:29.240 you know, we're going to get some tips and tricks 0:29:29.240 --> 0:29:32.320 and get better at it because I'm not very good, Jonathan, 0:29:32.360 --> 0:29:35.560 but you know, I dive in there anyway. I completely 0:29:35.840 --> 0:29:40.920 completely sympathize. But it's too much fun to avoid. So 0:29:42.000 --> 0:29:44.320 but but kind of that that nature and just wanting 0:29:44.360 --> 0:29:48.680 to get better. UM and I tracking prove as we're 0:29:48.800 --> 0:29:54.400 thinking about how leverage, this provided a real, a real 0:29:54.480 --> 0:29:58.080 way to track how the best players in the world 0:29:58.080 --> 0:30:01.440 as a specific game or any game that they're playing. 0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:04.400 Where are they looking? You know, gaming is so much 0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:07.120 about where you're looking, where you're paying attention, where your 0:30:07.120 --> 0:30:13.600 focus is. And eye tracking really enabled really the world. 0:30:13.640 --> 0:30:17.200 And we'll talk to some definitely about this, but enabled 0:30:17.280 --> 0:30:20.080 gamers to see where the best players in the world 0:30:20.160 --> 0:30:23.280 are looking at any point in time. So are they 0:30:23.320 --> 0:30:26.560 looking at the mini map, are they looking down the corridor, 0:30:26.560 --> 0:30:29.880 They're looking down the hallway. Um, right before you know, 0:30:29.960 --> 0:30:32.640 they fragged somebody or they get tragged or whatever it 0:30:32.680 --> 0:30:36.880 might be happening in the match. So we saw this 0:30:37.040 --> 0:30:41.640 real opportunity, this real thing that gamers are looking to do, 0:30:41.760 --> 0:30:46.280 and that's get better and this technology that really allows 0:30:46.320 --> 0:30:50.280 a new level of data capture and then you turn 0:30:50.360 --> 0:30:54.160 that into some analytics and you can actually put out, um, 0:30:55.600 --> 0:30:58.640 some pretty interesting information. So that's kind of at the 0:30:58.760 --> 0:31:01.480 very beginning conceptually, and we're just you know, sitting around 0:31:01.560 --> 0:31:04.720 with you know, our internal product group teams, are internal 0:31:05.120 --> 0:31:10.000 marketing teams talking to the sports organizations, um, and you know, 0:31:10.080 --> 0:31:13.960 our third party partners like Toby talking about whether the 0:31:14.000 --> 0:31:16.200 priorities that we have coming up. You know, this isn't 0:31:16.240 --> 0:31:19.640 just a something we spoke about six months ago. This 0:31:19.800 --> 0:31:23.280 is years in the making of understanding what gamers are 0:31:23.320 --> 0:31:27.080 looking for and working with these technology partners. So that's 0:31:27.120 --> 0:31:31.280 kind of out it all started. And UM and and 0:31:31.280 --> 0:31:33.680 and David, if you have, UM you obviously played an 0:31:33.680 --> 0:31:37.240 Intel park for us here and getting this technology rolled 0:31:37.240 --> 0:31:41.840 out with UH with with Turner and the league. So, UM, 0:31:42.040 --> 0:31:44.400 there's anything you want to add on on where this started? 0:31:44.760 --> 0:31:47.960 Police feel free? Yeah, I would you say, And it's 0:31:48.040 --> 0:31:51.400 your point. Earlier a lot of this technology and research 0:31:51.480 --> 0:31:54.480 into this technology as part of gaming, even theon gaming 0:31:54.520 --> 0:31:56.440 has been around for a couple of years now, and 0:31:56.480 --> 0:31:59.360 it hasn't really been until now, until the technology has 0:31:59.520 --> 0:32:03.120 become uh, you know, smaller and more nimble than it's 0:32:03.160 --> 0:32:05.800 you know, hitting this more consumer level focus. But I'm 0:32:05.840 --> 0:32:07.880 sure in the past they've been using eye tracking to 0:32:08.280 --> 0:32:10.800 look at how people respond to add online, you know, 0:32:10.800 --> 0:32:12.560 when they do keep mapping on websites and the where 0:32:12.600 --> 0:32:15.440 people respond UM. And it wasn't until I think a 0:32:15.440 --> 0:32:17.240 couple of years ago, probably two or three years ago, 0:32:17.320 --> 0:32:20.920 that one of our partner's team, liquid UM, they had 0:32:20.960 --> 0:32:24.120 done some research of their own with I believe it 0:32:24.240 --> 0:32:28.200 was the Mayo Research Clinic over in California, UM and 0:32:28.240 --> 0:32:32.600 they had worked with ah I believe the professor there 0:32:32.600 --> 0:32:34.680 who was researching kind of eye tracking as part of 0:32:34.720 --> 0:32:38.600 video gaming, the level of cognition and just the uh 0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:42.040 you know, research level analytics between some of the oldest 0:32:42.200 --> 0:32:45.320 veteran players versus you know, young hot starts who are 0:32:45.400 --> 0:32:48.720 coming out, you know, sixteen seventeen and dominating the scene. UM, 0:32:48.720 --> 0:32:50.600 and the research that he saw on some of these 0:32:50.600 --> 0:32:52.800 teams are really startling as far as you know, veterans 0:32:52.840 --> 0:32:55.280 being able to still keep the edge ahead through their 0:32:55.320 --> 0:32:58.280 experience and just how quick their eyes are and being 0:32:58.320 --> 0:33:02.400 able to you know, cycle the between icons from you know, 0:33:02.400 --> 0:33:04.600 a hundred different characters, and they have a lot more 0:33:04.640 --> 0:33:06.720 in their memory banks and pull from and react from 0:33:06.720 --> 0:33:09.959 than a lot of younger players. UM And Again, at 0:33:10.000 --> 0:33:12.280 that time, you know that research is probably being done 0:33:12.320 --> 0:33:14.600 on a ten to twelve thousand dollar piece of equipment 0:33:14.840 --> 0:33:17.680 that was tracking your eyes and it was cumbersome, And 0:33:17.720 --> 0:33:19.840 now we're seeing it to the point where again it's 0:33:19.880 --> 0:33:22.680 able to be equipped into a laptop and it's something 0:33:22.720 --> 0:33:24.720 that you know, pretty much a lot of consumers and 0:33:24.800 --> 0:33:28.600 teams UM have at their immediate disposal. UM and what 0:33:28.720 --> 0:33:31.600 I'm bringing this back home between liquid you know, as 0:33:31.680 --> 0:33:35.880 more and more teams are growing in the space, and 0:33:35.960 --> 0:33:39.120 as more and more traditional sports teams are also getting 0:33:39.160 --> 0:33:44.120 involved in the sports, there's this growing desire to understand 0:33:44.240 --> 0:33:47.800 again the dynamics of the athleticism or the cognition and 0:33:47.920 --> 0:33:51.360 skill of a traditional athlete versus an e sports athletes. 0:33:51.720 --> 0:33:53.720 And I think we're barely scratching the surface of what 0:33:53.760 --> 0:33:57.080 that means today. Um and has more and more other 0:33:57.160 --> 0:34:00.840 technology catches up, I think we all dream of finding 0:34:00.960 --> 0:34:05.480 other big in cycled ways that E sports can provide 0:34:05.560 --> 0:34:09.000 a level of biometric data, um to allow us to 0:34:09.040 --> 0:34:12.360 appreciate you know what the best you well and also 0:34:12.480 --> 0:34:14.920 how you know, average Joe's like you and I can 0:34:15.160 --> 0:34:20.640 strive to chase after some of that greatness in certain categories. UM. 0:34:20.640 --> 0:34:24.320 So it's definitely very very exciting. That's so cool. And 0:34:24.320 --> 0:34:28.560 and and you know I, I too am chasing after 0:34:28.680 --> 0:34:33.560 that elusive chicken dinner over at pub g and it 0:34:33.560 --> 0:34:37.919 it remains just outside my grasp. So being able to 0:34:38.080 --> 0:34:41.520 see how not just not just how well someone plays, 0:34:41.560 --> 0:34:45.319 but how they go about playing that way, there is 0:34:45.360 --> 0:34:48.560 something really enticing about that. The not just you know, 0:34:48.840 --> 0:34:53.000 when we watch professional sports typically we can see great, 0:34:53.640 --> 0:34:57.840 great displays of athleticism, but you know, people are not machines. 0:34:58.160 --> 0:35:01.759 We can break things down and use slow motion and 0:35:02.120 --> 0:35:05.960 various camera angles to kind of analyze the basics. But 0:35:06.200 --> 0:35:09.200 to me, the fact that we're talking about a digital 0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:12.320 realm and then being able to track our physical motions 0:35:12.320 --> 0:35:15.040 and map that to the actions of a digital realm, 0:35:15.080 --> 0:35:17.600 it does seem like this is uh a much more 0:35:17.640 --> 0:35:23.520 conducive to breaking things down into quantifiable aspects to really 0:35:23.560 --> 0:35:26.440 talk about well, you know, this person is checking their 0:35:26.480 --> 0:35:31.279 mini map more frequently than someone who is not a 0:35:31.280 --> 0:35:34.799 professional gamer. That's a really interesting stat and could really 0:35:35.680 --> 0:35:38.880 inform people how to play the game at a slightly 0:35:38.960 --> 0:35:41.440 higher level than what they were doing before, knowing of course, 0:35:41.560 --> 0:35:48.080 that it's not a magic substitute for the hours of practice, 0:35:48.440 --> 0:35:51.080 as you know, countless hours of practice for some of 0:35:51.120 --> 0:35:54.319 these professional gamers who will sit down for eight or 0:35:54.360 --> 0:35:57.680 ten hours and play a game and that's largely how 0:35:57.719 --> 0:36:00.239 they got as good as they are. But then also 0:36:00.280 --> 0:36:03.239 a tool for them to look at afterward. Maybe they've 0:36:03.280 --> 0:36:05.840 played in a tournament, Maybe they played really well and 0:36:05.840 --> 0:36:08.400 they want to see what what they were doing and 0:36:08.440 --> 0:36:12.560 remember to really hone in on those particular types of 0:36:12.280 --> 0:36:15.319 of of strategies and future tournaments. Or they didn't do 0:36:15.400 --> 0:36:16.840 so well, and maybe they want to see what the 0:36:16.840 --> 0:36:21.000 differences between their performance and someone else's. I also like 0:36:21.080 --> 0:36:24.600 the idea of this from if we're looking beyond the sports, 0:36:24.640 --> 0:36:26.160 which we'll get back to in a second, I don't 0:36:26.160 --> 0:36:29.040 want to leave that behind, but I like this idea 0:36:29.160 --> 0:36:32.720 also from a game designer standpoint. The idea of getting 0:36:32.760 --> 0:36:36.880 more information about what your players see as important in 0:36:36.920 --> 0:36:40.080 your game means that game designers can actually use that 0:36:40.160 --> 0:36:44.680 information to make more effective games down the line um 0:36:44.760 --> 0:36:47.960 and beyond that, if you if you think about this 0:36:48.040 --> 0:36:54.160 technology reaching a point where it becomes more of a 0:36:54.320 --> 0:36:58.280 kind of a standard piece of tech that gets rolled 0:36:58.320 --> 0:37:03.080 out into laptops in the future or computers in general 0:37:03.080 --> 0:37:06.000 in the future, you could see this being incorporated into 0:37:06.080 --> 0:37:09.480 games themselves, where it's not just analysis, but it becomes 0:37:09.480 --> 0:37:12.920 an element of gameplay. Like I think of a game, 0:37:13.000 --> 0:37:17.480 perhaps like l A Noir, where part of that game 0:37:17.600 --> 0:37:21.600 involves the player watching a virtual character's reaction as you're 0:37:21.640 --> 0:37:25.319 interrogating the character, and that in turn informs you as 0:37:25.320 --> 0:37:27.080 to whether or not that character is telling the truth 0:37:27.120 --> 0:37:30.360 they're telling a lie. Will imagine eye tracking technology where 0:37:30.360 --> 0:37:33.320 the character appears to be aware of where you are looking, 0:37:33.920 --> 0:37:37.040 and then that adds a whole new game element. So 0:37:37.160 --> 0:37:39.760 to me, the eye tracking technology in the gaming world, 0:37:39.760 --> 0:37:42.040 I mean, as you say, we're at the very beginning 0:37:42.080 --> 0:37:44.520 of it. Even if you just and I don't mean 0:37:44.520 --> 0:37:47.880 to just to to make this sound less than what 0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:50.840 it is. But even if you are restricting that attention 0:37:50.880 --> 0:37:55.640 to e sports, there are so many incredible potential applications 0:37:55.640 --> 0:37:59.279 for this technology, and it's really exciting to be in 0:37:59.360 --> 0:38:04.720 these fair early days talking about where we're going right now. UM, 0:38:04.880 --> 0:38:08.240 so getting back to eat sports and getting back into 0:38:08.280 --> 0:38:11.320 that realm. Can you talk a little bit about the 0:38:11.360 --> 0:38:15.879 relationships that have formed now that you guys are really 0:38:16.000 --> 0:38:21.200 kind of getting more involved with incorporating eye tracking technology 0:38:21.239 --> 0:38:24.640 and the pro gaming realm. I want to hear more 0:38:24.719 --> 0:38:28.440 about this, uh, this this relationship and how that has 0:38:28.480 --> 0:38:34.680 developed over time. Yeah. Absolutely, you make some some great 0:38:34.719 --> 0:38:37.600 point shock and I think you know, like we as 0:38:37.600 --> 0:38:40.680 we think about where we are, we are very much 0:38:41.560 --> 0:38:46.640 um just at the beginning point of showcasing this kind 0:38:46.640 --> 0:38:50.560 of technology and I attracting technology um to the world 0:38:50.920 --> 0:38:55.600 right and I'll definitely talk jump into the partners and 0:38:55.680 --> 0:38:58.680 talk about the partners and what we've done. Um. But 0:38:58.800 --> 0:39:01.680 you you have to make some really interesting comments about 0:39:01.680 --> 0:39:06.200 where is who can get the most benefit out of 0:39:06.880 --> 0:39:10.440 uh technologies like this, like eye tracking and and that 0:39:10.560 --> 0:39:14.760 kind of thing. There's obviously some very clear benefits for 0:39:15.239 --> 0:39:19.920 professional players and for amateurs that are trying to become professional, right, 0:39:19.960 --> 0:39:22.920 just this notion of getting better learning from the pros 0:39:22.960 --> 0:39:26.239 that are out there, just like traditional sports. But one 0:39:26.280 --> 0:39:29.239 of the other parts that really intrigued us to you 0:39:29.960 --> 0:39:33.080 as we're trying to trying to roll out this kind 0:39:33.080 --> 0:39:37.279 of technology is for the partition of viewer um for 0:39:37.360 --> 0:39:39.879 the fan. One of the things that has not kind 0:39:39.880 --> 0:39:45.279 of cut up with traditional sports is the viewing experience 0:39:45.320 --> 0:39:47.600 and the commentating. A lot of the commentating in the 0:39:47.600 --> 0:39:50.480 past for the sports has been around, you know, the 0:39:50.560 --> 0:39:55.200 commentator explaining what's going on, but verbally, there really wasn't 0:39:55.200 --> 0:40:00.440 a visual visual cues of visual explanations of what's happening 0:40:00.520 --> 0:40:05.520 in the match. You know, obviously with NFL or NBA 0:40:06.080 --> 0:40:10.320 there's a lot of analytic things and things that happened 0:40:10.360 --> 0:40:13.560 through the broadcast I think of teleprompters and and things 0:40:13.600 --> 0:40:16.040 like that. Well, it really wasn't that for e sports. 0:40:16.840 --> 0:40:19.640 And so as we were introducing the technology and figuring 0:40:19.640 --> 0:40:21.880 out how can we bring this and how what should 0:40:21.920 --> 0:40:24.680 we be doing, we really wanted to make that viewing 0:40:24.760 --> 0:40:28.640 experience better for you know, the hundreds of millions of 0:40:29.280 --> 0:40:32.879 gaming fans that are watching these sports globally. And then 0:40:32.880 --> 0:40:35.480 we have to decide, you know, okay, how who can 0:40:35.560 --> 0:40:38.719 who shares our values, who can who will work with 0:40:38.960 --> 0:40:43.520 us to to bring this technology to the forefront and 0:40:43.680 --> 0:40:47.920 you know earlier this year in January, UM we announced 0:40:47.960 --> 0:40:51.319 the partnership and we've been working very closely with UM, 0:40:51.320 --> 0:40:54.920 with Turner and with Elik around all the all the 0:40:54.960 --> 0:40:58.880 tournaments that they're running. And UM actually just here in 0:40:58.960 --> 0:41:03.840 September for the first time UM partnership between US, Toby 0:41:03.920 --> 0:41:08.759 and an e League. UM we rolled out the the 0:41:08.840 --> 0:41:12.920 getting Technical segment on the E League broadcast and really 0:41:12.920 --> 0:41:16.040 being able to to showcase the fans and to the 0:41:16.120 --> 0:41:20.320 viewers this I gave technology that's being captured to the 0:41:20.800 --> 0:41:26.160 tracking software, my tracking software. So UM, from a partnership side, 0:41:26.920 --> 0:41:30.799 it has been it was it was very important to 0:41:30.920 --> 0:41:35.040 us to select partners and work with partners that shared 0:41:35.160 --> 0:41:39.719 quite honestly our vision of making this better for for 0:41:39.800 --> 0:41:42.440 the viewer because we know professionals are going to continue 0:41:42.480 --> 0:41:45.840 to innovate and get better where at the forefront working 0:41:45.880 --> 0:41:50.600 with them on separate UH separate programs. Amateurs are always 0:41:50.600 --> 0:41:53.200 going to look to get better because they want they 0:41:53.239 --> 0:41:57.239 they want so badly to become a professional. But there's 0:41:57.480 --> 0:42:00.480 a ton of people I just enjoy the sports because 0:42:00.480 --> 0:42:02.600 of what it is and how full we make it 0:42:02.680 --> 0:42:06.160 better for them. So UM, David, I'll hands over to 0:42:06.239 --> 0:42:08.560 you because you again, I would love for you to 0:42:08.640 --> 0:42:11.560 chime in and talk to uh just a relationship we 0:42:11.640 --> 0:42:14.160 have with Turner and E League and how all that 0:42:14.200 --> 0:42:19.040 came together. Yes, absolutely, I mean I feel like just 0:42:19.160 --> 0:42:22.560 boils back down to a point of trying to be 0:42:22.680 --> 0:42:25.400 a good steward as far as a leader in the 0:42:25.440 --> 0:42:27.600 industry on behalf to be e sports, and really just 0:42:27.760 --> 0:42:31.799 making it a bit easier for viewers overall to get 0:42:31.840 --> 0:42:34.720 more out of the viewing experience, whether they're season veterans 0:42:34.719 --> 0:42:36.839 who have been watching the game for a long time, 0:42:37.719 --> 0:42:39.520 or something may be new to the game as well. 0:42:39.560 --> 0:42:42.400 We've seen the studies who knew you that day. A 0:42:42.400 --> 0:42:44.520 lot of the exports viewers don't even play the games 0:42:44.520 --> 0:42:47.440 that they watched. So if we're trying to help the 0:42:47.520 --> 0:42:50.880 sports grow in the Western world, that's likely going to 0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:53.399 be introducing e sports to people who are very new 0:42:53.440 --> 0:42:56.120 to the game. Maybe your family and maybe your friends 0:42:56.120 --> 0:42:58.640 who put that um So when it came to working 0:42:58.680 --> 0:43:01.839 with Eleague, I think it was no brainer for us 0:43:01.880 --> 0:43:05.080 to start off with counter strikes. When you look at 0:43:05.080 --> 0:43:08.560 the landscape of the sports titles out there, you can 0:43:08.600 --> 0:43:10.920 look at your league legends, your Dodas and your mobiles 0:43:10.920 --> 0:43:13.759 out there, it does have a rather high learning curve 0:43:13.880 --> 0:43:17.000 for people who may not be yet familiar with the title. UM. 0:43:17.160 --> 0:43:19.000 So definitely we look at a game like counter Strike, 0:43:19.200 --> 0:43:22.560 there's really nothing to misunderstand about, you know, don't be 0:43:22.640 --> 0:43:25.759 on the wrong point and end up gun um. And 0:43:25.840 --> 0:43:28.040 so I think being able to find a game that 0:43:28.080 --> 0:43:31.920 immediately resonates it and can be digested by a larger 0:43:31.960 --> 0:43:35.400 audience helps us, uh not only again bring us to 0:43:35.440 --> 0:43:37.880 a wider audience, but then when you factor in the 0:43:37.960 --> 0:43:41.800 first person perspective and what eye tracking can really bring 0:43:41.840 --> 0:43:46.000 in from a synergy perspective there, it really made a 0:43:46.000 --> 0:43:49.760 lot of sense to find the right partner like easy 0:43:49.920 --> 0:43:53.960 to have a right tournament. Where again, counter strikes with 0:43:54.000 --> 0:43:55.759 their bread and butter for the better part of two 0:43:55.800 --> 0:43:58.960 years now um they hosted the Major in January to 0:43:59.360 --> 0:44:03.800 overwhelming excess UM and they're willing to continue to try 0:44:03.840 --> 0:44:05.560 and see how they can push the limits of counter 0:44:05.600 --> 0:44:08.360 Strike even further and further as you look towards the future. 0:44:08.440 --> 0:44:11.600 But it really boils down to what ways can we 0:44:11.680 --> 0:44:15.880 have this experience be more digestible to a huge gaming 0:44:15.880 --> 0:44:18.960 audience out there. So for eye tracking and counter strike, 0:44:19.320 --> 0:44:22.120 Where was the player looking, what were the context of 0:44:22.560 --> 0:44:25.719 you know, how they made the decision that they did, um. 0:44:25.800 --> 0:44:27.359 And we've seen a lot of excitement from it. We've 0:44:27.360 --> 0:44:29.520 seen a tremendous amount of assignment from the stands. They've 0:44:29.560 --> 0:44:34.440 been really uh receptive of the eye tracking uh clicks. 0:44:34.480 --> 0:44:36.719 They've been telling us how they want to see you know, 0:44:36.920 --> 0:44:41.640 other players, specific players get put under the microscope. Um. 0:44:41.719 --> 0:44:43.279 You know, they would love to be able to get 0:44:43.320 --> 0:44:45.960 a better clear breakdown of exactly how they pulled off 0:44:46.000 --> 0:44:47.799 the eight that they did. We're seeing a lot of 0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:51.000 really good reception from the commentators as well. So when 0:44:51.080 --> 0:44:54.000 we look at the league, uh, the you know, enders 0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:57.960 and a lot of the guys who are providing kind 0:44:57.960 --> 0:45:00.680 of the color uh you know, play by play commentary 0:45:00.840 --> 0:45:02.640 have been excited to be able to talk, you know, 0:45:02.719 --> 0:45:05.840 a little bit more about the nuances of for example, 0:45:05.920 --> 0:45:08.720 how an in game leader on the team may indext 0:45:08.800 --> 0:45:11.640 more between the mini map and looking at the economy 0:45:11.640 --> 0:45:14.200 of the team and the other four players who are 0:45:14.239 --> 0:45:17.680 more of the damage doers and the um you know, 0:45:17.719 --> 0:45:19.640 the meet and guns of the team are just more 0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:22.600 focused on plane UM. And so I think it really 0:45:22.600 --> 0:45:25.440 opens up a way to present the game again, to 0:45:26.160 --> 0:45:29.200 know why I variety of people, and it helps us 0:45:29.280 --> 0:45:32.840 as a brand find meaningful ways to continue to the 0:45:32.920 --> 0:45:35.960 game back to the community rather than you know, just 0:45:36.160 --> 0:45:39.560 business as usual logo branding and culsorship rights and things 0:45:39.560 --> 0:45:43.400 like that. Fascinating, I think. I also find it really 0:45:43.440 --> 0:45:48.440 interesting that the counter Strike is the sort of the 0:45:48.480 --> 0:45:51.920 go to game. It makes perfect sense. But I recently 0:45:52.080 --> 0:45:55.640 did a multi part series on the history of Valve, 0:45:56.440 --> 0:45:59.920 and so my listeners now know that counter Strike, that 0:46:00.080 --> 0:46:03.720 the game that originally was you know, a modification, Uh, 0:46:03.840 --> 0:46:05.759 it was a mod of Half Life that came out 0:46:07.320 --> 0:46:10.719 thousand that it's gone through a couple of different variations, 0:46:10.760 --> 0:46:12.879 the source version of it coming out a few years 0:46:12.920 --> 0:46:16.000 ago twelve, I believe it was. And to see that 0:46:16.000 --> 0:46:20.479 that game is still so so such a big part 0:46:21.080 --> 0:46:24.759 of E sports it is, which makes sense. It requires 0:46:24.800 --> 0:46:28.759 people to have very strong skill sets as well as 0:46:28.800 --> 0:46:31.400 be very good team players if you want to have 0:46:31.440 --> 0:46:34.120 a strong counter Strike team, and I can definitely see 0:46:34.120 --> 0:46:38.000 where that value comes in. I remember distinctly when I 0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:42.799 attended a c E S many years ago. Uh, one 0:46:43.000 --> 0:46:47.880 of the the companies there, one of the the computer companies. 0:46:48.680 --> 0:46:52.600 We're hosting Ubisoft's team at the time, the frag Dolls, 0:46:52.760 --> 0:46:56.960 who were professional gamers, and the frag Dolls were taking 0:46:56.960 --> 0:46:59.880 on all comers, and so people would step up the 0:47:00.200 --> 0:47:02.160 form a team of four and then three of the 0:47:02.200 --> 0:47:05.200 frag Dolls would just decimate them, and it happened over 0:47:05.200 --> 0:47:07.560 and over and over again, and it was exciting to watch. 0:47:07.600 --> 0:47:10.680 But it would have been so much more interesting to 0:47:10.800 --> 0:47:13.680 actually see how they played together as a team, beyond 0:47:14.360 --> 0:47:16.640 just knowing that they're coordinating much better, that they have 0:47:16.680 --> 0:47:18.600 a good knowledge of the maps, being able to see 0:47:18.840 --> 0:47:22.680 where they're looking and how frequently they're looking around. Do 0:47:23.160 --> 0:47:26.399 they stare at one place for any given time, where 0:47:26.400 --> 0:47:29.879 are they just constantly scanning? That sort of stuff would 0:47:29.880 --> 0:47:32.200 have been really interesting to see. So I find this 0:47:32.239 --> 0:47:34.520 really exciting. And as you point out, it also by 0:47:34.560 --> 0:47:40.560 giving more information by informing the audience, you spend less time, uh, 0:47:40.800 --> 0:47:43.880 trying to familiarize yourself with the way the game is working. 0:47:43.880 --> 0:47:47.520 It becomes much more apparent early on if you're able 0:47:47.560 --> 0:47:50.360 to see what other people are looking at, and I 0:47:50.360 --> 0:47:53.240 think it removes that barrier. Uh. I think it also 0:47:54.200 --> 0:48:01.040 really illustrates how professional gamers are are you know, just 0:48:01.080 --> 0:48:04.600 incredibly good at what they do beyond raking up high scores, 0:48:04.640 --> 0:48:09.799 Because I think still among certain populations at least, the 0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:13.680 idea of professional gaming is somewhat scoffed at. UH. Whereas 0:48:13.800 --> 0:48:17.000 you know, we accept professional sports pretty easily. That's been 0:48:17.040 --> 0:48:21.000 part of our culture for for decades, and that is 0:48:21.120 --> 0:48:24.319 pretty easy for folks to go along with. UH. I 0:48:24.360 --> 0:48:27.160 think before anyone gets a chance to really see what 0:48:27.360 --> 0:48:31.719 pro e sports is all about, they have an initial 0:48:31.960 --> 0:48:35.560 reaction of like, well, that's a game that's not a sport, 0:48:35.920 --> 0:48:37.640 and it's not until you're able to really kind of 0:48:37.640 --> 0:48:40.080 break it down in this way and say, no, take 0:48:40.120 --> 0:48:42.840 a look at this. These these are men and women 0:48:43.200 --> 0:48:47.000 who are doing things at a level far beyond what 0:48:47.120 --> 0:48:50.360 the average person is capable of doing. It is similar, 0:48:50.680 --> 0:48:54.400 if not, if not identical, to what you see in 0:48:54.440 --> 0:48:59.480 the actual physical sports realm. So I like that aspect 0:48:59.480 --> 0:49:02.880 of it as well. It gives you that extra I 0:49:02.880 --> 0:49:05.160 guess ammunition is the right way to put it when 0:49:05.160 --> 0:49:07.920 you are talking about e sports and trying to explain 0:49:08.000 --> 0:49:12.239 to someone how it really is a level of performance 0:49:12.320 --> 0:49:15.920 beyond what the average person tends to be able to 0:49:15.960 --> 0:49:19.919 do uh through this partnership. I'm sure you've you've seen 0:49:20.000 --> 0:49:24.799 some really interesting stuff. Are there any particular uh stories 0:49:25.000 --> 0:49:29.240 or particular revelations that you have encountered as a result 0:49:29.320 --> 0:49:34.960 of this eye tracking technology being part of this experience. Yeah, 0:49:34.960 --> 0:49:39.000 I mean, I would definitely say the just the middle 0:49:39.440 --> 0:49:45.920 of nuanced gameplay between these counterslight players is insane. I 0:49:45.920 --> 0:49:49.040 mean we talk about, you know, these guys being able 0:49:49.120 --> 0:49:50.919 to be at the top of their games. I mean, 0:49:51.080 --> 0:49:53.160 these are the guys who absolutely can tell the difference 0:49:53.200 --> 0:49:55.680 between you know, two hundred and sixty hurts versus a 0:49:55.760 --> 0:49:59.719 hundred and forty two hurts. There's jokes out there about 0:49:59.719 --> 0:50:01.840 how the human I till and see you know thirty fps. 0:50:01.920 --> 0:50:04.440 That is completely not true at all. Um. You know, 0:50:04.480 --> 0:50:06.640 the counterstrect guys within the league, and a lot of 0:50:06.680 --> 0:50:12.319 these guys here are just very um uh, their their 0:50:12.360 --> 0:50:14.759 sensors are extreme, you know, when when you also could 0:50:14.760 --> 0:50:16.480 how some of these guys play. There's a player like 0:50:16.560 --> 0:50:18.920 j d M on Team Liquid who means back, you know, 0:50:19.000 --> 0:50:22.200 three or four feet behind his chair. The distance between 0:50:22.320 --> 0:50:26.239 his eyes to this screen is wildly different from you know, 0:50:26.280 --> 0:50:30.239 another player who maybe near seven inches away. Um, we 0:50:30.360 --> 0:50:32.920 found that could be interesting in the studio setting when 0:50:32.920 --> 0:50:35.520 it comes to calibrating the eye tracking units for the 0:50:35.600 --> 0:50:38.040 various players and making sure that the way that they 0:50:38.080 --> 0:50:40.200 compete and how they're being calibrated at the time. But 0:50:40.880 --> 0:50:43.600 I think just at a very high level, um, people, 0:50:43.760 --> 0:50:45.759 once we slow down the game and once we get 0:50:45.800 --> 0:50:48.480 to replays and all the technologies finally as caught up 0:50:48.520 --> 0:50:51.279 to be able to subtily break down the nuances of 0:50:51.320 --> 0:50:54.160 how quick they are in terms of middleseconds and hundreds 0:50:54.160 --> 0:50:57.719 of middleseconds, we're gonna quickly see just you know, the 0:50:57.760 --> 0:51:01.400 difference between the top one percent of players and investing 0:51:01.480 --> 0:51:03.520 what that there and uh not going to be very 0:51:03.520 --> 0:51:09.640 exciting to see. Yeah. And and you know something else 0:51:09.680 --> 0:51:12.760 that stood out to me here with with the initial 0:51:12.880 --> 0:51:15.120 ROD and it's kind of the first the first time 0:51:15.280 --> 0:51:18.279 the getting Technical segment started to run on the the 0:51:18.440 --> 0:51:21.880 league coverage has been the fan reaction. So you know, 0:51:21.920 --> 0:51:24.439 I mentioned, you know, part of the reason that we're 0:51:24.440 --> 0:51:27.319 doing this is we want to improve the viewership experience, 0:51:27.920 --> 0:51:30.960 you know, selfishly for us as gamers and fans, because 0:51:31.440 --> 0:51:33.640 we're watching these things ourselves and we want to be 0:51:33.680 --> 0:51:37.759 able to a better viewing experience. Like if you look 0:51:37.760 --> 0:51:42.200 at the feedback you know, just on on Facebook comments 0:51:42.280 --> 0:51:45.600 on what you see happening on Twitch on the Elite broadcast, 0:51:45.680 --> 0:51:50.360 Like the comments from fans is it's really encouraging around this. 0:51:50.520 --> 0:51:54.840 They appreciate this technology, They appreciate being able to get 0:51:54.880 --> 0:52:00.080 a better glint at how these professionals are performed in 0:52:00.239 --> 0:52:03.680 real time, something you've never seen before. So you know, 0:52:03.760 --> 0:52:07.120 as we as we roll out new new innovations and technologies, 0:52:07.160 --> 0:52:10.360 we do obviously a ton of work, and we're working 0:52:10.520 --> 0:52:13.040 and talking with our fans and our customers and just 0:52:13.120 --> 0:52:16.960 gamers overall too UM to make sure we're delivering what 0:52:17.360 --> 0:52:21.040 they want. Ultimately alien where is trying to deliver that 0:52:21.280 --> 0:52:24.400 ultimate gaming experience. We feel this place right into that. 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:29.160 But it's always a it's always reassuring one when we 0:52:29.200 --> 0:52:32.200 go down a path and we work with partners UM 0:52:32.239 --> 0:52:34.719 and roll out new technologies and new features and so 0:52:34.880 --> 0:52:39.399 on to see that. See the fan reaction is UM 0:52:39.600 --> 0:52:43.440 is a positive is coming back positive and that to 0:52:43.480 --> 0:52:46.360 me has definitely said out of and seen anything negative 0:52:46.400 --> 0:52:51.480 around the technology. Just a lot of appreciation from from 0:52:51.480 --> 0:52:54.719 the Game of community. Well, I love that There is 0:52:54.800 --> 0:52:57.839 one thing I do want to add in the FANTE back. 0:52:57.960 --> 0:53:03.560 People have been clamoring with what a anti cheating tool 0:53:03.760 --> 0:53:06.799 that may wind up being. Um, it's curious to see 0:53:06.800 --> 0:53:08.359 because what if one day they you know, we all 0:53:08.400 --> 0:53:10.759 had monitors that always tracked our eyes and you can 0:53:10.800 --> 0:53:15.600 never disable that. UM, that would be a very interesting future. 0:53:16.600 --> 0:53:18.520 When we come back, we'll chat a bit more with 0:53:18.640 --> 0:53:21.359 Robert from Turner about how they took the challenge of 0:53:21.400 --> 0:53:24.360 taking the tech created by Toby and alien Ware and 0:53:24.400 --> 0:53:27.919 they found a way to incorporate it into e sports broadcasts. 0:53:27.920 --> 0:53:31.400 But first let's take another quick break to thank our sponsor. 0:53:38.520 --> 0:53:40.960 So that kind of leads us naturally into a discussion 0:53:41.480 --> 0:53:46.320 about the challenges of presenting e sports to an audience 0:53:46.360 --> 0:53:49.279 in a way where they can really appreciate what's going on, 0:53:49.440 --> 0:53:53.720 and that that ties into this topic of the eye 0:53:53.719 --> 0:53:58.040 tracking technology. We know that Toby Tech was the company 0:53:58.120 --> 0:54:01.960 to start working on the actual hardware and the basic software, 0:54:01.960 --> 0:54:05.400 and we had Dell and alien Ware that we're working 0:54:05.520 --> 0:54:10.000 on the various UH consumer products that incorporate that technology. 0:54:10.080 --> 0:54:12.319 But when it comes to actually implementing it in a 0:54:12.360 --> 0:54:17.080 way that makes sense both from an administrative perspective where 0:54:17.320 --> 0:54:19.960 you guys are trying to find ways of adding value 0:54:20.120 --> 0:54:24.480 to the presentation and from a consumer perspective or from 0:54:24.480 --> 0:54:29.239 an audience perspective where they can appreciate even more the 0:54:29.280 --> 0:54:32.400 capabilities of these elite players because they're getting kind of 0:54:32.440 --> 0:54:34.920 insight into what's happening. Can you talk a little bit 0:54:34.920 --> 0:54:39.000 about that implementation and what that experience was, Like? Sure, yeah, 0:54:39.000 --> 0:54:41.920 I mean, um, you know what I would say is 0:54:43.080 --> 0:54:46.960 it was birthed out of actually a very casual conversation 0:54:47.120 --> 0:54:51.000 between David Chen and I David Chen from Dell and 0:54:51.080 --> 0:54:57.240 I um at our major actually and that was in January. Um, 0:54:57.280 --> 0:55:01.080 you know, I had seen a demo of some behind 0:55:01.120 --> 0:55:04.000 the scenes software that a League of Legends team was 0:55:04.120 --> 0:55:09.480 using to improve their performance with eye tracking, and thought, wow, 0:55:09.560 --> 0:55:14.400 this is a really interesting, Um, how do we democratize that, Like, 0:55:14.480 --> 0:55:18.080 how do we bring that to the audience watching the 0:55:18.080 --> 0:55:20.960 game instead of making it like a back off its 0:55:21.040 --> 0:55:25.720 tool that a team is using to try and optimize 0:55:26.160 --> 0:55:31.080 its performance. And you know there are challenges for sure, Right. 0:55:31.200 --> 0:55:35.560 So in March, um I went to Austin and we 0:55:35.560 --> 0:55:39.440 we had a meeting, and in that meeting, Toby actually 0:55:39.480 --> 0:55:43.880 brought their ideas on how it could work. UM, but 0:55:44.920 --> 0:55:49.319 you know, to be candid, uh, they hadn't ever run 0:55:49.680 --> 0:55:54.560 uh competitive gaming event. And as you alluded to earlier, 0:55:55.000 --> 0:56:01.520 you know, competitive integrity is extremely important to extremely important 0:56:01.560 --> 0:56:04.799 to the players, and so we have to be very 0:56:04.840 --> 0:56:09.399 careful about what we do in the studio and how 0:56:09.480 --> 0:56:13.640 we produce things. And as a result, UM, it is 0:56:13.680 --> 0:56:16.319 certainly not as simple to do something like this eye 0:56:16.320 --> 0:56:20.520 tracking as one would think it would be. UM. So 0:56:20.640 --> 0:56:24.520 to kind of walk through the components of how it works, UM, 0:56:24.640 --> 0:56:28.880 you need a computer with an eye tracker connected to it, 0:56:29.920 --> 0:56:34.319 UM that is capturing gays in real time. Then you 0:56:34.440 --> 0:56:40.000 also need a video feed of the point of view 0:56:40.160 --> 0:56:45.600 of the player in real time. UM. And the two 0:56:45.680 --> 0:56:49.640 things like the the eye tracker needs to be synchronized 0:56:49.719 --> 0:56:52.640 for the resolution and aspect ratio that the player is 0:56:52.719 --> 0:56:55.600 running the game at. And of course then the p 0:56:55.800 --> 0:56:59.279 o V feed of the gameplay also needs to be 0:57:00.200 --> 0:57:03.520 exactly what the player is looking at, so it can't 0:57:03.560 --> 0:57:08.239 be at a different aspect ratio or resolution and have 0:57:08.400 --> 0:57:12.520 it make perfect sense. And then you need to take 0:57:12.600 --> 0:57:16.720 those two things that the video feed of the gays 0:57:17.400 --> 0:57:21.040 and the actual p o V and then use broadcast 0:57:21.040 --> 0:57:24.920 production equipment to merge those two things in real time 0:57:25.040 --> 0:57:31.200 so you're getting an accurate UM feed of the two things. Well, 0:57:31.520 --> 0:57:34.600 in order to do all of what I just mentioned, 0:57:35.200 --> 0:57:39.439 it actually requires two computers that the players not even 0:57:39.480 --> 0:57:44.920 playing on. UM. We have one machine that is the 0:57:44.960 --> 0:57:49.800 dedicated gaze tracker that's actually outputting a green screen with 0:57:49.880 --> 0:57:54.800 the gaze on it, So that computer is the tracker itself, 0:57:54.920 --> 0:57:58.920 is mounted underneath the monitor that the player is sitting 0:57:58.920 --> 0:58:03.920 in front of on stage age. And then we're using UM. 0:58:03.960 --> 0:58:05.560 This might be a little too in the weeds, but 0:58:05.600 --> 0:58:10.440 we're using UH USB Cat six extenders, so we're able 0:58:10.480 --> 0:58:13.760 to run the USB three hundred feet to a server 0:58:13.920 --> 0:58:18.040 room UM. And then the actual computer that the gaze 0:58:18.240 --> 0:58:22.240 tracking software is running on is in this server room 0:58:23.200 --> 0:58:26.240 hundreds of hundreds of feet away from the actual stage. 0:58:27.280 --> 0:58:30.400 So we can't run the gays tracking software on the 0:58:30.400 --> 0:58:33.680 computer that the players playing on because we can't do 0:58:33.760 --> 0:58:41.040 anything that that could impact competitive integrity. Then for the 0:58:41.080 --> 0:58:45.840 p o V UM, in order to get that p 0:58:46.000 --> 0:58:49.200 o V, we cannot take it from the players computer, 0:58:49.400 --> 0:58:52.960 So we don't ever take a video output from a 0:58:53.040 --> 0:58:57.880 player's computer and feed that into our broadcast infrastructure. Because 0:58:58.200 --> 0:59:01.200 the output from the video card on a player's computer 0:59:01.280 --> 0:59:04.560 needs to go directly to the monitor, there cannot be 0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:10.520 anything in that loop that introduces any latency. So and again, 0:59:10.600 --> 0:59:15.880 in order to to maintain competitive integrity, we cannot use 0:59:16.040 --> 0:59:19.240 the computer that the player is playing on to produce 0:59:19.360 --> 0:59:22.120 the p o V footage that we're using to produce 0:59:22.240 --> 0:59:28.479 this content. So instead, I have yet another computer in 0:59:28.520 --> 0:59:34.000 the same server room that is connected to a relay 0:59:34.120 --> 0:59:39.520 game server and is mimicking that player's point of view experience. 0:59:39.560 --> 0:59:44.160 So what we've done is we very carefully keep track 0:59:44.200 --> 0:59:47.880 of what aspect ratio the players running the game at 0:59:47.920 --> 0:59:52.520 on stage, we mimic those settings and all of the 0:59:52.560 --> 0:59:59.320 other settings that that players traditionally use on this secondary computer, 1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:04.320 and then we're um linking it to that player so 1:00:04.400 --> 1:00:07.600 that it shows their p o V the entire game, 1:00:08.400 --> 1:00:12.400 and then feeding that into our broadcast infrastructure, and then 1:00:12.520 --> 1:00:16.520 upstream from all of that, there is a broadcast switcher 1:00:16.680 --> 1:00:22.960 that is merging the gays output with the green removed obviously, 1:00:23.760 --> 1:00:27.040 and that p o V footage and feeding that to 1:00:27.080 --> 1:00:29.640 the control room where a producer can watch it in 1:00:29.720 --> 1:00:34.680 real time and decide is this something I want our 1:00:34.760 --> 1:00:37.520 talent to talk about or not talk about. And so 1:00:37.960 --> 1:00:41.360 we're we've now done this for three weeks of this tournament, 1:00:42.280 --> 1:00:44.720 and we're you know, to be honest with you, if 1:00:44.720 --> 1:00:50.160 you had talked to me before the tournament, UM, I my, 1:00:50.360 --> 1:00:53.720 I was very careful to say, I don't know what 1:00:53.760 --> 1:00:56.360 we're going to get. I don't know what kind of 1:00:56.400 --> 1:00:58.680 insights we're going to get. I don't know if this 1:00:58.760 --> 1:01:03.080 is really going to be like super interesting content or 1:01:03.240 --> 1:01:06.960 just interesting content. Is it going to reveal things or 1:01:07.000 --> 1:01:11.000 not reveal things? Um? All I knew was that we 1:01:11.040 --> 1:01:13.280 had a proof of concept that we could capture this 1:01:13.920 --> 1:01:15.400 and then we were going to see what we could 1:01:15.440 --> 1:01:18.680 do with it. But I think we're really really pleased 1:01:18.760 --> 1:01:24.120 with how the content has come come together and the 1:01:24.160 --> 1:01:30.680 fans are just blown away. UM. I think you know, 1:01:30.800 --> 1:01:34.760 it's it's a statement about what Turner Sports brings to 1:01:34.800 --> 1:01:37.960 the E sports space, where we're trying to, you know, 1:01:38.120 --> 1:01:43.040 constantly be additive and constantly be innovative, but not doing 1:01:43.080 --> 1:01:46.960 innovation and additive things for the sake of doing them, 1:01:47.040 --> 1:01:50.760 doing them to enhance the fan engagement and the fan 1:01:50.840 --> 1:01:55.040 viewing experience. UM. And with this, you know, what I 1:01:55.040 --> 1:01:59.240 would say is there is no nothing analogous to this 1:01:59.720 --> 1:02:03.960 in traditional sports. You can see where a player runs, 1:02:04.040 --> 1:02:07.000 you can see them kick the ball, but you have 1:02:07.040 --> 1:02:11.760 no idea about like what they're looking at in real time, 1:02:11.920 --> 1:02:15.800 or what their intents are or what they even consider. Right, 1:02:16.400 --> 1:02:20.400 you don't really have any raw data about their thought 1:02:20.440 --> 1:02:24.640 process in traditional sports except what they tell you, right. 1:02:26.360 --> 1:02:30.360 But with this, this data, that this content, it reveals 1:02:30.440 --> 1:02:34.680 thought process in a way that nothing else in sports 1:02:34.720 --> 1:02:38.320 or e sports does. At this point, you see them look, 1:02:38.960 --> 1:02:41.800 you know, do their mental check? What's my health? How 1:02:41.880 --> 1:02:45.320 much ambo do I have? You know, where where the 1:02:45.360 --> 1:02:47.960 rest of my team on the map? Like you see 1:02:48.000 --> 1:02:51.360 that in real time in the content. We're not we 1:02:51.440 --> 1:02:53.680 haven't gotten to the point where we can really do 1:02:53.720 --> 1:02:56.400 this real time in a play are yet, although I 1:02:56.440 --> 1:03:00.120 want to do that at some point. Um. And I'm 1:03:00.160 --> 1:03:05.200 so excited because it's it is really like this super 1:03:05.240 --> 1:03:10.760 interesting combination of biometric technology that is not very invasive 1:03:11.840 --> 1:03:16.320 and um, this sport that is like sort of made 1:03:16.320 --> 1:03:19.520 out of data, And it would be almost impossible to 1:03:19.600 --> 1:03:24.160 do this for traditional sports, Like you know, I I am, 1:03:24.200 --> 1:03:26.919 I'm very fortunate in that I'm on. I'm a part 1:03:26.920 --> 1:03:30.920 of the team that also does the production for our 1:03:31.040 --> 1:03:34.600 NBA games, also does the production for our MLB games, 1:03:35.040 --> 1:03:38.800 and so I get to hear some of the behind 1:03:38.800 --> 1:03:42.080 the scenes stuff that is considered and talked about. And 1:03:42.320 --> 1:03:44.760 we certainly don't treat E sports any differently than we 1:03:44.840 --> 1:03:48.760 do those other things from a thought process perspective. But 1:03:49.120 --> 1:03:51.360 you know, as I'm sitting in the meetings in the 1:03:51.440 --> 1:03:55.200 last couple of weeks and we're talking about MLB, like, 1:03:55.320 --> 1:03:59.520 I'm actually thinking, Wow, wouldn't it be cool to see 1:03:59.640 --> 1:04:02.800 like Ace trace as a batter's in the batter's box 1:04:03.240 --> 1:04:07.240 and the pitches coming in. But like, there is no 1:04:07.320 --> 1:04:11.360 way to do that but be super cool. So so 1:04:11.480 --> 1:04:14.240 this is like that though, this is a step in 1:04:14.280 --> 1:04:18.800 that direction, right, Um, So I mean for me, like, 1:04:18.840 --> 1:04:21.560 I think it's super exciting and I would love to 1:04:21.680 --> 1:04:27.840 see this sort of like intent based data capture. Um, 1:04:27.880 --> 1:04:30.280 you know, what did he really look at? What did 1:04:30.280 --> 1:04:33.560 he consider? I would love to see that in baseball 1:04:33.680 --> 1:04:37.360 or football or basketball. How cool would it be to 1:04:37.480 --> 1:04:44.000 see the quarterbacks checkdowns in real time? In football? You know? Um, 1:04:44.040 --> 1:04:46.200 what did he consider before he threw the ball over 1:04:46.240 --> 1:04:49.680 there and what did he see before he threw that ball? Like, 1:04:49.720 --> 1:04:53.560 there's there's just not anything like this. So so to 1:04:53.680 --> 1:04:56.880 tack back the esports though, um, and the content that 1:04:56.920 --> 1:05:00.800 we've captured so far, you know, I think it's some 1:05:00.920 --> 1:05:05.200 of it is has revealed Oh that guy does exactly 1:05:05.240 --> 1:05:08.600 what we expected. And then in other cases it's like, wow, 1:05:08.600 --> 1:05:13.080 he spends a lot more time checking the more basic 1:05:13.200 --> 1:05:16.280 things than you would expect. And I think you know, 1:05:16.320 --> 1:05:22.920 with players, other players, like you know, regular stream of consciousness, 1:05:22.960 --> 1:05:27.040 like every day counter strike players, Um, this is an 1:05:27.080 --> 1:05:29.520 opportunity for them to kind of learn, oh wow, when 1:05:29.560 --> 1:05:32.040 I go around that corner, I don't look at that box, 1:05:32.400 --> 1:05:37.320 I start over there and sort of optimize their game too. Yeah. 1:05:37.360 --> 1:05:39.920 I also I also like how you know, you you 1:05:40.000 --> 1:05:44.400 had this incredible challenge of being able to like all 1:05:44.440 --> 1:05:46.280 the pieces were there, but in order for them to 1:05:46.320 --> 1:05:49.920 actually work, you had to go to these enormous considerations 1:05:49.920 --> 1:05:53.800 so that you did not affect the performance of any 1:05:53.840 --> 1:05:57.400 players machine because clearly, uh, it would be the same 1:05:57.440 --> 1:06:01.120 as if you were to uh to mess with uh, 1:06:01.160 --> 1:06:04.120 you know, a professional athlete in a traditional sport, if 1:06:04.120 --> 1:06:06.200 they were to mess with their equipment, it would be 1:06:06.280 --> 1:06:09.280 almost like sabotage. So you're you know, you're talking about 1:06:09.280 --> 1:06:12.360 like the not wanting to put any kind of load 1:06:12.760 --> 1:06:16.080 on a graphics processing unit that is meant to run 1:06:16.080 --> 1:06:18.520 the game on the player's machine. I would say that 1:06:18.520 --> 1:06:20.600 that's sort of analogous to what you were saying with 1:06:21.240 --> 1:06:24.040 professional sports in the in the physical realm, the idea 1:06:24.080 --> 1:06:27.800 that we can't really do that eye tracking technique with 1:06:28.160 --> 1:06:31.800 traditional sports largely because it would require us to outfit 1:06:31.880 --> 1:06:36.360 professional players with additional equipment that would then in turn 1:06:36.520 --> 1:06:39.680 affect their performance. Thus you end up you end up 1:06:39.680 --> 1:06:43.640 with the classic quantum physics issue of anything you observe 1:06:43.920 --> 1:06:48.240 you are affecting, right, So so it's it's interesting that 1:06:48.640 --> 1:06:51.440 you know, you had to find that work around in 1:06:51.480 --> 1:06:56.960 the professional sports arena for for pro video gamers. And 1:06:57.200 --> 1:06:59.480 I think once you do consider that in the realm 1:06:59.520 --> 1:07:01.520 of the the physical sports as well, even if you're 1:07:01.520 --> 1:07:05.040 not familiar with professional video game sports or e leagues 1:07:05.120 --> 1:07:08.280 or anything of those that nature, you start to say, oh, well, 1:07:08.280 --> 1:07:09.880 now I'm getting it. Now I'm getting it. I see. 1:07:09.920 --> 1:07:12.520 It's like, you know, if if I walked up and 1:07:12.520 --> 1:07:15.360 I realized that the bat that I want to use 1:07:15.760 --> 1:07:17.400 is nowhere to be found, and I'm gonna have to 1:07:17.480 --> 1:07:19.200 use a different bat, and it's one that's of a 1:07:19.280 --> 1:07:22.480 slightly different weight, and I'm not it's enough when you're 1:07:22.520 --> 1:07:25.120 talking about at that elite level of performance that it 1:07:25.200 --> 1:07:29.439 makes a measurable difference. So Uh, I'm glad that we 1:07:29.440 --> 1:07:32.320 were able to have this conversation and and kind of 1:07:32.360 --> 1:07:35.360 get that perspective, because I think it does. It's very 1:07:35.480 --> 1:07:40.400 enlightening to people who are unfamiliar with the subject. Uh. 1:07:40.520 --> 1:07:44.400 Is there anything that you have witnessed in your time 1:07:44.520 --> 1:07:48.160 with the E League that stands out as one of 1:07:48.160 --> 1:07:51.920 those really special moments, Whether it was in a tournament 1:07:52.040 --> 1:07:54.400 or maybe it was maybe it was when you were 1:07:55.080 --> 1:07:58.400 when you saw this this eye tracking technology all kind 1:07:58.400 --> 1:08:01.080 of come together, but anything that kind of is particularly 1:08:01.160 --> 1:08:04.920 special in your mind. I mean from my personal experience 1:08:04.960 --> 1:08:08.520 to kind of attack back to personal there's kind of 1:08:08.800 --> 1:08:13.240 three moments for me, um to to take a question 1:08:13.280 --> 1:08:16.520 that asks for one and to answer with three. Um. 1:08:16.560 --> 1:08:20.160 You know. The first was the finals of our first 1:08:20.240 --> 1:08:24.320 tournament we were we released game Command, which I have 1:08:24.400 --> 1:08:27.320 not mentioned, but it's a mosaic player, so like a 1:08:27.479 --> 1:08:32.479 user directed experience where UH end users can choose to 1:08:32.520 --> 1:08:35.000 watch any of the ten players who are playing in 1:08:35.080 --> 1:08:40.519 real time, or actually watch all ten. Um. Releasing that 1:08:40.560 --> 1:08:44.920 out into the wild and seeing the fan feedback on it, 1:08:45.960 --> 1:08:48.920 because there was literally nothing like it in the in 1:08:49.120 --> 1:08:52.679 the world at that point. Um, and they're there actually 1:08:52.680 --> 1:08:55.040 still isn't like there's still nothing where you can watch 1:08:55.479 --> 1:08:59.640 all ten players at the same time, um in one UI. 1:08:59.680 --> 1:09:03.799 But UM, that was the first, you know. The second 1:09:04.120 --> 1:09:07.559 was I've talked about the Major in January a few 1:09:07.600 --> 1:09:11.640 times already, but there was a moment during the finals 1:09:12.240 --> 1:09:18.599 where we crested a million concurrent viewers on Twitch, not 1:09:18.800 --> 1:09:22.680 just breaking the all time Twitch record, but shattering it 1:09:22.800 --> 1:09:28.759 by almost three hundred thousand viewers, and you know, setting 1:09:28.760 --> 1:09:32.400 the sort of bar for competitive e sports as far 1:09:32.439 --> 1:09:36.160 as viewership counts go. And then the third, honestly is 1:09:36.240 --> 1:09:41.280 this eye tracker stuff. Um, it's always interesting to start 1:09:41.280 --> 1:09:43.759 with the theory in I mean, I guess in March 1:09:43.880 --> 1:09:47.640 we started with a theory and go to proof of 1:09:47.680 --> 1:09:51.160 concept in June and then be sitting at a desk 1:09:51.200 --> 1:09:56.120 with white knuckles in September hoping that that vision and 1:09:56.200 --> 1:09:59.760 all of the workarounds and hard work come together and 1:09:59.800 --> 1:10:04.639 then to see the fans react so positively. I mean, really, 1:10:04.680 --> 1:10:07.720 that's what it's about, right, It's not about me or 1:10:07.760 --> 1:10:11.160 building a cool thing, as much as I love building 1:10:11.200 --> 1:10:13.680 cool things and that's kind of what I've made my 1:10:13.760 --> 1:10:18.639 living doing. Um. You know what's important is that other 1:10:18.680 --> 1:10:21.640 people are getting some value out of that, and no 1:10:22.120 --> 1:10:25.920 other people are more important than the like fans uh 1:10:26.000 --> 1:10:30.040 in the scene. So um to see that, and then 1:10:30.200 --> 1:10:32.679 to see what they do with it, right like they've 1:10:33.280 --> 1:10:37.679 they've taken it and turned it into memes and jokes 1:10:37.760 --> 1:10:41.080 and everything like, to me, that means it's been accepted, 1:10:41.200 --> 1:10:44.080 right like at the highest level. When they start making 1:10:44.120 --> 1:10:48.439 Reddit threads about joking about past tournaments with eye tracking 1:10:48.479 --> 1:10:51.519 turned on, then to me, that means we've we've done 1:10:51.520 --> 1:10:56.080 something new. Like those three moments for me are the 1:10:56.120 --> 1:10:59.599 are the three most special among many many special moments 1:11:00.160 --> 1:11:03.600 that the last three years. Those are those are great stories. 1:11:03.640 --> 1:11:06.920 And I love that this trend has been picking up 1:11:07.080 --> 1:11:09.800 steam for the last not to use a valve joke, 1:11:10.080 --> 1:11:11.960 but has been picking up steam for the past few 1:11:12.080 --> 1:11:16.920 years and seeing not just the the professional video game 1:11:17.000 --> 1:11:21.320 sports industry really coming into its own in the United States, 1:11:21.360 --> 1:11:23.559 I mean, obviously it's been a big deal in other 1:11:23.560 --> 1:11:26.080 places as well. It started really in the US, but 1:11:26.200 --> 1:11:28.160 I would say that it kind of blossomed in South 1:11:28.240 --> 1:11:31.360 Korea and then as now finding more acceptance in the 1:11:31.479 --> 1:11:34.120 United States, which which is great, but we're also seeing 1:11:34.520 --> 1:11:39.840 uh people turning into kind of an entertainment figure through 1:11:39.920 --> 1:11:43.639 their video game playing and reaching audiences that way. Clearly 1:11:44.280 --> 1:11:50.320 there is a a uh interested invested audience they get. 1:11:50.880 --> 1:11:55.599 They get really attached to certain players and certain titles. Uh. 1:11:55.640 --> 1:12:00.640 It's exciting, and I'm glad that we're kind of like 1:12:00.920 --> 1:12:04.680 right at the point where I think it's going to explode, 1:12:04.720 --> 1:12:07.000 like it's already. I guess you could argue hitting a 1:12:07.040 --> 1:12:10.720 million concurrent Twitch viewers all at once that's kind of 1:12:10.720 --> 1:12:15.280 an explosion all in of itself. But seeing this, this 1:12:15.280 --> 1:12:18.639 this cusp of acceptance is really exciting to me because 1:12:18.640 --> 1:12:22.200 I've been following professional gaming for a while in its 1:12:22.280 --> 1:12:26.479 various formats, whether it was through UH league, you know, 1:12:26.520 --> 1:12:29.760 tournament league play, or whether it was a group of 1:12:29.840 --> 1:12:33.320 sponsored players who were there to help represent a particular 1:12:33.360 --> 1:12:36.719 game developer, anything like that. I've been following that stuff 1:12:36.720 --> 1:12:39.439 for years and seeing it now get to a point 1:12:39.920 --> 1:12:45.519 where there's there's a real awareness and celebration of it 1:12:45.600 --> 1:12:50.080 is exciting to me. I love games. I love playing games. 1:12:50.520 --> 1:12:55.559 I am awful at them, but I still enjoy it. Uh. Yeah, 1:12:55.640 --> 1:12:59.160 we were talking before we started recording about the games 1:12:59.200 --> 1:13:02.400 that we would stream, and I believe you mentioned a 1:13:03.280 --> 1:13:08.080 very popular M m O RPG that you occasionally would play. Yeah, 1:13:08.240 --> 1:13:11.040 I'm not afraid to break out World of Warcraft on occasion. 1:13:11.439 --> 1:13:15.320 That's fair among other games. Yeah, I I might go 1:13:15.400 --> 1:13:18.840 to so I I used to. Uh, so people can 1:13:18.880 --> 1:13:23.080 know interest of full disclosure. I the game I'm most 1:13:23.120 --> 1:13:25.719 known for streaming, because I don't do it very frequently 1:13:26.080 --> 1:13:29.880 is Minecraft, because I would hold a a marathon session 1:13:29.880 --> 1:13:32.800 of Minecraft as part of a charity event every year, 1:13:33.000 --> 1:13:37.120 and I would play twenty four hours straight of Minecraft, 1:13:37.160 --> 1:13:40.760 and then for whatever when people would make donations, at 1:13:40.760 --> 1:13:43.280 whatever level they would donate, I would build a monument 1:13:43.600 --> 1:13:48.360 in Minecraft out of materials that were, uh, comparatively difficult 1:13:48.360 --> 1:13:51.559 to find. So the more you donated, the more rare 1:13:51.600 --> 1:13:54.080 the material had to be in order for me to 1:13:54.160 --> 1:13:57.439 make a monument significant for that donation. And I it 1:13:57.560 --> 1:14:00.439 was not creative mode, it was you know, regular her mode, 1:14:00.600 --> 1:14:03.640 turned on all the enemies everything, and um, let me 1:14:03.640 --> 1:14:06.960 tell you somewhere around our number sixteen, things get special. 1:14:07.280 --> 1:14:10.519 But uh, but yeah, I I have a love of 1:14:10.600 --> 1:14:13.439 this as well, so I cannot wait to check out 1:14:13.920 --> 1:14:16.720 the the elague play. I cannot wait. I plan to 1:14:16.800 --> 1:14:19.960 actually be at the finals, so I cannot wait to 1:14:20.000 --> 1:14:23.800 see that in person. And uh, where can people go 1:14:24.080 --> 1:14:28.360 to experience this? I mean, Elite dot com is is 1:14:28.439 --> 1:14:32.519 the one stop shop for everything you'd want when we're live. 1:14:32.560 --> 1:14:35.920 That will point you to all the different viewing experiences 1:14:35.960 --> 1:14:39.519 that we have and it'll give you schedule information anything 1:14:39.520 --> 1:14:43.519 else you would want. Excellent, Robert, thank you so much 1:14:43.560 --> 1:14:46.559 for your time. I really appreciate it, and I hope 1:14:46.560 --> 1:14:49.719 but we get a chance to talk again in the future. Awesome. 1:14:49.720 --> 1:14:52.320 Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate the conversation. 1:14:53.280 --> 1:14:56.400 Clearly there's a healthy audience out there for professional gaming, 1:14:56.520 --> 1:15:00.400 from entertainment personalities to tournament players, and it be really 1:15:00.479 --> 1:15:03.240 interesting to see how the industry evolves from here. Could 1:15:03.240 --> 1:15:05.519 we one day see video games take a place with 1:15:05.600 --> 1:15:09.320 traditional sports and something as celebrated as the Olympics, or 1:15:09.360 --> 1:15:12.160 will there always be at least some level of stigma 1:15:12.240 --> 1:15:15.040 in place that will prevent that from ever happening, and 1:15:15.120 --> 1:15:17.559 doesn't really matter as long as people are having a 1:15:17.600 --> 1:15:21.320 good time playing or watching games. I can say this. 1:15:22.240 --> 1:15:25.840 I am in my early forties and I watch a 1:15:26.040 --> 1:15:29.640 lot of let's play style videos and live streams. I 1:15:29.800 --> 1:15:33.959 enjoy watching people play games. I'm dazzled by the skills 1:15:34.080 --> 1:15:37.960 of pro level gamers, and I find myself thoroughly entertained 1:15:38.000 --> 1:15:41.559 by certain personalities when they interact with each other while 1:15:41.840 --> 1:15:47.400 playing together. Cough achievement hunter cough. I think there's plenty 1:15:47.439 --> 1:15:50.400 of room for growth in that realm of entertainment, even 1:15:50.439 --> 1:15:53.160 if it never truly reaches the level of acceptance of 1:15:53.200 --> 1:15:56.519 traditional sports. But I'm curious what you guys think. Are 1:15:56.560 --> 1:15:59.640 you a fan of watching other people play games? Do 1:15:59.680 --> 1:16:04.040 you just find that completely incomprehensible. If you do find 1:16:04.040 --> 1:16:07.840 it incomprehensible, do you watch sports, and where do you 1:16:07.960 --> 1:16:11.280 think the gap is in between them. I'm really curious 1:16:11.280 --> 1:16:12.680 to hear more about this. I kind of wanted to 1:16:12.680 --> 1:16:16.320 be a conversation and maybe in a few episodes, maybe 1:16:16.360 --> 1:16:19.240 a month or two down the line, I'll revisit this 1:16:19.320 --> 1:16:21.559 and talk about some of the listener feedback. I got 1:16:21.600 --> 1:16:24.000 so I really want you guys to respond. If you 1:16:24.000 --> 1:16:26.400 want to reach out to me, you can always email me. 1:16:26.680 --> 1:16:29.479 The address for this show is tech Stuff at how 1:16:29.560 --> 1:16:32.360 stuff works dot com. You can drop me a line 1:16:32.400 --> 1:16:35.719 on Twitter or Facebook. The handle for both of those 1:16:35.800 --> 1:16:40.160 is tech Stuff hs W. Remember every Wednesday and Friday, 1:16:40.360 --> 1:16:43.599 I stream live as I record this show. You can 1:16:43.640 --> 1:16:46.400 go to twitch dot tv slash tech stuff and watch 1:16:46.479 --> 1:16:50.280 me live. Also, if you enjoy the show, and if 1:16:50.280 --> 1:16:53.280 you just can't get enough of tech, I recommend checking 1:16:53.320 --> 1:16:57.320 out tech Stuff Daily, my brand new daily show. It's 1:16:57.360 --> 1:17:00.280 a short form show last between four and six minutes 1:17:00.320 --> 1:17:04.000 per episode. It should be live right now. Go check 1:17:04.040 --> 1:17:07.320 that out. You can subscribe to it. If you are 1:17:07.360 --> 1:17:10.240 a member of tune In, you can watch episodes or 1:17:10.240 --> 1:17:14.000 listen to episodes a week before everybody else, and then 1:17:14.080 --> 1:17:18.479 they go live everywhere you find your podcasts. That's it 1:17:18.680 --> 1:17:22.080 for me. I'll talk to you guys again really soon 1:17:28.840 --> 1:17:31.280 for more on this and thousands of other topics. Because 1:17:31.320 --> 1:17:32.840 a housetop works dot com, which