1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress friends. 2 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,079 Speaker 1: I am so so excited to be back with all 3 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 1: of you, my dear Work in Progress community, my whipsmarties, 4 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:28,200 Speaker 1: my friends from all over the world. We are back 5 00:00:28,680 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: for season three. I've missed you all, and I am 6 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: so very excited to be launching our third season with 7 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: yet another incredibly impressive woman who I just admire to 8 00:00:42,080 --> 00:00:45,080 Speaker 1: the core of my being. Today we are joined by 9 00:00:45,120 --> 00:00:49,000 Speaker 1: none other than Jen Saki. You know her as the 10 00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:52,160 Speaker 1: former White House Press Secretary for President Joe Biden. Zaki 11 00:00:52,280 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 1: was a longtime advisor to President Barack Obama. She served 12 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,040 Speaker 1: as the traveling press secretary on his first long shot 13 00:00:59,120 --> 00:01:02,520 Speaker 1: campaign and later served as the White House Communications Director. 14 00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: She served as the administration's public face on a very 15 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 1: global stage. During her tenure as the State Department spokesperson, 16 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: she traveled the world with Secretary of State John Carrie. 17 00:01:13,200 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: She currently is hosting Inside with Jen Sacki on MSNBC 18 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:20,880 Speaker 1: on both Sundays and Mondays. There is just so much 19 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,280 Speaker 1: to dig into with her, not only in her incredibly 20 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 1: impressive career letting the rest of us know what's going 21 00:01:27,480 --> 00:01:29,959 Speaker 1: on in Washington, but the way she moves through the 22 00:01:30,000 --> 00:01:32,520 Speaker 1: world as an advocate, as a wife, as a mom, 23 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: and honestly one of the people who I have the 24 00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,839 Speaker 1: most fun hanging out with in the world. So let's 25 00:01:38,920 --> 00:01:48,560 Speaker 1: jump in with Jen. Jen Sackie, I am so excited 26 00:01:48,960 --> 00:01:53,160 Speaker 1: that you are here today. I am just, you know, 27 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:56,920 Speaker 1: so enamored with you as a human, as someone who 28 00:01:56,920 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: has helped to write the ship of American democracy, who 29 00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:05,400 Speaker 1: has helped remind people of the importance of journalism. And 30 00:02:05,440 --> 00:02:08,519 Speaker 1: you're also just fun as shit like you are a 31 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:09,880 Speaker 1: good time to hang out with. 32 00:02:10,639 --> 00:02:13,600 Speaker 2: We have hung out, we really have. 33 00:02:14,360 --> 00:02:18,960 Speaker 1: And you know you've You've made the press room at 34 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:24,280 Speaker 1: the White House infamous, You've made Sakebamb's infamous. You've really 35 00:02:25,440 --> 00:02:29,000 Speaker 1: brought us so much, you know, truth and entertainment together, 36 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,400 Speaker 1: which is a big deal these days. But I want 37 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 1: to go back before we dive into what your life 38 00:02:37,360 --> 00:02:39,720 Speaker 1: is now and your sort of journey to get here. 39 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,840 Speaker 1: I want to go like way back, because you know, 40 00:02:43,880 --> 00:02:49,440 Speaker 1: you've worked in presidential administrations, you have paved this incredible 41 00:02:49,520 --> 00:02:54,799 Speaker 1: path in American journalism. But I'm curious if you were 42 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:58,880 Speaker 1: always like this, like who who was Jen? At eight? 43 00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:02,000 Speaker 1: Can you pay as a picture. Where did you grow up, 44 00:03:02,080 --> 00:03:04,560 Speaker 1: what was your home life like? Were you were you 45 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,680 Speaker 1: curious and verbose at that age? 46 00:03:07,600 --> 00:03:08,040 Speaker 2: Set us? 47 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:08,919 Speaker 1: Set us a scene. 48 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:12,480 Speaker 2: I would say, well, first of all, I'm just going 49 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:16,520 Speaker 2: to say that you are a person who I have 50 00:03:16,639 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 2: only known for not that long, but have known of 51 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 2: for many years, like so many people. And what people 52 00:03:21,560 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 2: don't always know about someone like you, or you specifically 53 00:03:24,720 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 2: is that you use your platform for such good and 54 00:03:28,200 --> 00:03:30,640 Speaker 2: you talk about issues you care about and impact so 55 00:03:30,720 --> 00:03:33,760 Speaker 2: many people across the country. You don't have to do that. 56 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 2: And you were like a beautiful soul that kind of 57 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,240 Speaker 2: goodness comes out of. So it's been such a joy 58 00:03:40,360 --> 00:03:41,560 Speaker 2: to get to know you a little bit, and it's 59 00:03:41,560 --> 00:03:42,960 Speaker 2: such a pleasure to be here with you today. And 60 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:46,320 Speaker 2: I just didn't want to forget to convey that. 61 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:47,200 Speaker 1: So kind thank you. 62 00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:49,720 Speaker 2: You know, an eight year old me, I want to 63 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,360 Speaker 2: know what an eight year old you was like. Tool 64 00:03:52,720 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 2: me was I was definitely always talkative. My parents have 65 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:02,240 Speaker 2: videos me from preschool where they kind of you know, 66 00:04:02,280 --> 00:04:04,600 Speaker 2: your preschool would do a video with you and interview you, 67 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: and you can see because it's old school, you know, 68 00:04:06,960 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 2: it was the eighties, there's a lot of editing because 69 00:04:09,560 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 2: I would just keep talking and I was talking, and 70 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 2: that is probably always been part of my personality. I 71 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 2: was a huge reader as a little kid. It's funny. 72 00:04:20,800 --> 00:04:22,920 Speaker 2: My daughter is now eight, so I look at her 73 00:04:23,040 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 2: and sometimes I see this kind of My husband says, 74 00:04:26,360 --> 00:04:28,320 Speaker 2: you never want to project on your kids to be 75 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:30,599 Speaker 2: anyone other than who they're intended or meant to be. 76 00:04:31,279 --> 00:04:33,200 Speaker 2: But I do look at my daughter sometimes and it 77 00:04:33,279 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 2: kind of freaks me out that she is. There is 78 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: something about, you know, biological traits you pass along, right, 79 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: I was very sporty as a kid. I have zero, 80 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 2: yeah or theatrical talents, so you are you know, you 81 00:04:50,720 --> 00:04:55,280 Speaker 2: are bypassed me by one hundred million decibels on that front. 82 00:04:56,160 --> 00:04:58,839 Speaker 1: Well, to be clear, I wanted to be sporty. I 83 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:01,640 Speaker 1: grew up playing soccer, and you know, I'm like the 84 00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: world's biggest US women's national team fan. And now you know, 85 00:05:06,200 --> 00:05:08,920 Speaker 1: in the ownership group of Angel City. The only reason 86 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,040 Speaker 1: I am not a soccer player is because A I 87 00:05:11,040 --> 00:05:13,279 Speaker 1: do not have the skills, and be I have terrible asthma. 88 00:05:13,760 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: So like I had to become a theater kid because 89 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: I was incapable of being an athlete. 90 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 2: Well, listen, okay, I was playing on the soccer team. 91 00:05:21,560 --> 00:05:23,960 Speaker 2: Just to give you a sense of my theatrical inability. 92 00:05:24,880 --> 00:05:27,560 Speaker 2: I was in two different productions of The Music Man 93 00:05:27,640 --> 00:05:30,799 Speaker 2: growing up. Anyone's familiar with that. I was passed both 94 00:05:30,880 --> 00:05:34,480 Speaker 2: times as trained person number eight, which if you're wondering that, 95 00:05:34,560 --> 00:05:39,480 Speaker 2: it's not a big role. So the point is I 96 00:05:39,960 --> 00:05:41,760 Speaker 2: was just I was into a lot of sports. I 97 00:05:41,800 --> 00:05:45,680 Speaker 2: was a swimmer, I played soccer, I ran track in 98 00:05:45,760 --> 00:05:48,840 Speaker 2: high school. That was kind of a big part of 99 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 2: my especially swimming was a big, big part of my 100 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 2: youth was sports, and just that was a big consumer 101 00:05:56,640 --> 00:05:56,919 Speaker 2: for me. 102 00:05:57,640 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you swam in college, didn't you. 103 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:02,680 Speaker 2: I did through my sophomore year. I would say, as 104 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:04,920 Speaker 2: much as sports was a big consumer for me, I 105 00:06:04,960 --> 00:06:09,320 Speaker 2: was a mediocre college summer. So it's like, all good, 106 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,240 Speaker 2: now we can just be real about where our talents 107 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 2: are and are not. But you know, for me, it 108 00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:20,239 Speaker 2: was a big part of it was the camaraderie teammates 109 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,640 Speaker 2: just kind of and also swimmers. It's similar to running 110 00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:27,440 Speaker 2: a little bit, you have to. It creates kind of 111 00:06:27,560 --> 00:06:31,920 Speaker 2: a ability to focus because if you're two hours at 112 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 2: five in the morning, you're maybe a little bit maniacal, 113 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:39,039 Speaker 2: but also it creates kind of anability to focus. And 114 00:06:40,040 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 2: I still sometimes think there's nothing worse than jumping in 115 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:44,920 Speaker 2: a pool at five am, and so whatever it is. 116 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 2: But yeah, I was kind of a sports a sporty kid. 117 00:06:49,240 --> 00:06:55,240 Speaker 1: I feel like team sports really serve you well in politics, yeah, 118 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,479 Speaker 1: you know, learning, learning how to communicate with people and 119 00:07:00,279 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: problems together. It's it's sort of the way I feel 120 00:07:02,200 --> 00:07:06,240 Speaker 1: about growing up on TV sets essentially, because it's it's 121 00:07:06,279 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 1: not dissimilar in that, you you know, you get put 122 00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:11,920 Speaker 1: onto a team, onto a cast with a bunch of people, 123 00:07:11,960 --> 00:07:14,240 Speaker 1: and you got to figure out how to make it 124 00:07:14,320 --> 00:07:16,679 Speaker 1: work and create like a little work family. 125 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:18,720 Speaker 2: Did you have to because you must have had to 126 00:07:18,800 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 2: kind of just really adapt to whatever kind of new 127 00:07:22,480 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: family you were with. You didn't get to pick these 128 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:28,800 Speaker 2: teammates just to keep the technology going and yeah, identify 129 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 2: like this is my bestie for this show, or this 130 00:07:31,480 --> 00:07:34,320 Speaker 2: person maybe isn't going to be you know. 131 00:07:35,080 --> 00:07:38,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think it took me time, and I guess 132 00:07:38,320 --> 00:07:40,760 Speaker 1: i'd be curious to know how it felt for you, 133 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,400 Speaker 1: you know, entering into administrations, because for me, I had 134 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:51,320 Speaker 1: this really sort of you know, presently nostalgic idea that 135 00:07:51,400 --> 00:07:53,600 Speaker 1: we were gonna we were all going to like, you know, 136 00:07:53,720 --> 00:07:57,240 Speaker 1: move to our location and be best friends. And it's 137 00:07:57,240 --> 00:08:00,200 Speaker 1: a struggle for me to not feel really close the 138 00:08:00,240 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 1: people around me. And it's taken me into my adult 139 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:06,840 Speaker 1: life to realize, like, we're not all for everyone. I'm 140 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,440 Speaker 1: probably not for everyone, and this person over there might 141 00:08:09,480 --> 00:08:11,960 Speaker 1: not be for me, and that's fine. You know, you 142 00:08:12,080 --> 00:08:15,240 Speaker 1: can really coexist well with people even if they don't 143 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,640 Speaker 1: feel like one of your you know, lifelong friendship soulmates. 144 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 1: But that took me a minute to be able to 145 00:08:22,440 --> 00:08:26,440 Speaker 1: accept because I wanted that sort of closeness and camaraderie. 146 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,600 Speaker 1: I wanted it to feel like, you know, the Summertime 147 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:36,080 Speaker 1: sitcom come to life. And I think for me, the 148 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,960 Speaker 1: beauty of figuring out how to you know, work with 149 00:08:39,040 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: acquaintances and then identify real friends has has really created 150 00:08:44,440 --> 00:08:47,680 Speaker 1: the present landscape of my life with you know, some 151 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 1: of the friends we were speaking about earlier and some 152 00:08:51,000 --> 00:08:54,400 Speaker 1: of our budding relationships. And it's like, in a way, 153 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:56,800 Speaker 1: now that I don't expect everyone to be my people, 154 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:02,280 Speaker 1: I'm much more quick to be able to discern who 155 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 1: really is my people, and then I'm like, you're one 156 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:05,280 Speaker 1: of them. 157 00:09:05,360 --> 00:09:08,800 Speaker 2: Let's go. That's so valuable, I think, right, I mean, 158 00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,679 Speaker 2: do you consider yourself a people pleaser? I'm considered I 159 00:09:11,679 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 2: have innately one as well. I think you are one. 160 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:18,080 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, there's no way to be the daughter of 161 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: immigrants and not be like a like a vehement almost 162 00:09:23,679 --> 00:09:27,240 Speaker 1: at times, like detrimental to oneself people pleaser. I think 163 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,520 Speaker 1: I call myself a recovering people pleaser. Yes, I decided 164 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: to change my life at forty and like stop. Yeah, 165 00:09:33,160 --> 00:09:35,360 Speaker 1: and really it didn't happen until forty one and I 166 00:09:35,400 --> 00:09:38,160 Speaker 1: was like, I'm done. I'm officially done. Everything from here 167 00:09:38,200 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 1: on out will be different. I am celebrating my forty 168 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: first birthday as my first birthday. Gobye. 169 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 2: That is so interesting you say that because I when 170 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:50,719 Speaker 2: I turned forty, I found this feeling like, well, one, 171 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,599 Speaker 2: I was like, all of a sudden thinking about mortality, 172 00:09:52,640 --> 00:09:55,000 Speaker 2: not that you're that old. But once I got past that, 173 00:09:55,440 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: I was like, wow, you're kind of in that like 174 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 2: fit phase in a very good way. Right. I feel 175 00:10:01,800 --> 00:10:05,200 Speaker 2: like from so many years, like you, it sounds like 176 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:08,240 Speaker 2: I wanted people to like me. I didn't want people 177 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:11,840 Speaker 2: to be pleased or mad at me, and then you 178 00:10:11,880 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 2: get to a certain phase where to your point you're like, 179 00:10:14,120 --> 00:10:17,000 Speaker 2: you know what, this is a poisonous friendship or a 180 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,720 Speaker 2: poisonous relationship, and we don't need to do this anymore. 181 00:10:19,920 --> 00:10:21,559 Speaker 2: A friend of mine call It's like a version of 182 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 2: quiet quitting, when you like quiet quit a friendship, yes, 183 00:10:24,960 --> 00:10:27,720 Speaker 2: but just realizing like you need to leave space in 184 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: your life for the people who bring you joy and value. 185 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,680 Speaker 2: And I love the Brene Brown. Have you ever seen 186 00:10:35,679 --> 00:10:39,199 Speaker 2: this about like candle blower outers like people? You want 187 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:41,079 Speaker 2: to surround yourself with people who are not going to 188 00:10:41,120 --> 00:10:43,640 Speaker 2: blow out the light of you and everybody has left 189 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:47,680 Speaker 2: right like people, I'm not for everybody. Everybody's not for me. 190 00:10:48,320 --> 00:10:50,439 Speaker 2: But you know, that's one of the things I think 191 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 2: since I turned forty, I feel like I have really 192 00:10:54,040 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: tried to explore those like connecting relationships more than like 193 00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 2: a gatherer of people who aren't mad at me. 194 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, and you know what it made me think about. 195 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 1: One of the things I've been really examining this summer 196 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:13,760 Speaker 1: and with some of the you know folks who you 197 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:17,280 Speaker 1: and I both call friends, is this thing about inputs 198 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: versus outputs, and to realize that when you are a 199 00:11:21,559 --> 00:11:24,000 Speaker 1: people pleaser, and when you are a woman in any 200 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,040 Speaker 1: facet of entertainment where you are sort of expected to 201 00:11:27,160 --> 00:11:29,040 Speaker 1: juggle all of the things all of the time and 202 00:11:29,080 --> 00:11:34,000 Speaker 1: make it look easy. I realized so much of my 203 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 1: life has been based on my making selections out of 204 00:11:36,920 --> 00:11:40,240 Speaker 1: the things that have come to me as inputs, but 205 00:11:40,440 --> 00:11:43,240 Speaker 1: my options the things that present themselves to me. And 206 00:11:43,280 --> 00:11:45,320 Speaker 1: I sort of went, wait a second, what do I 207 00:11:45,360 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 1: want to go out and get? 208 00:11:47,480 --> 00:11:47,520 Speaker 2: What? 209 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:49,640 Speaker 1: What do I want to go out? 210 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:50,760 Speaker 2: You know? 211 00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,640 Speaker 1: What are the things I want to output toward and 212 00:11:54,920 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 1: what makes me happy? Not just what am I selecting 213 00:11:57,679 --> 00:12:00,800 Speaker 1: out of based on what I'm being offered, but what 214 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,200 Speaker 1: what is this sort of highest level of my dreams? 215 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:07,800 Speaker 1: What is my highest good? What makes me the happiest 216 00:12:08,200 --> 00:12:11,160 Speaker 1: out of this giant pool out here? Not just what 217 00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:13,200 Speaker 1: someone hands to me and says pick one. 218 00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:20,160 Speaker 2: Yes, that's so. It's like it's not I always say, like, 219 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:23,440 Speaker 2: don't vacation by obligation. It's the same thing, like don't 220 00:12:24,320 --> 00:12:27,360 Speaker 2: just wait for things I love that inputs versus outputs. 221 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,600 Speaker 2: That's so bad, I think in my twenties and maybe 222 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:33,480 Speaker 2: even my thirties, I felt afraid of kind of saying 223 00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:36,800 Speaker 2: out loud what I wanted. Right, It was like like 224 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 2: what if people rejected that? What if they said I 225 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:42,880 Speaker 2: couldn't do that? And so it was like you go 226 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:45,480 Speaker 2: along to get along a little bit. That's such a healthy, 227 00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:49,720 Speaker 2: healthy bridge to move past and listen. 228 00:12:49,760 --> 00:12:54,520 Speaker 1: I mean, we we experience the world as well as women. 229 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: We can't act as though gender discrimination doesn't affect us. 230 00:12:58,800 --> 00:13:01,400 Speaker 1: And there is a lot of energy out in the 231 00:13:01,400 --> 00:13:04,640 Speaker 1: world where when a woman says I want this, my 232 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:09,520 Speaker 1: ambition looks like this, the world says, how dare you? 233 00:13:09,520 --> 00:13:12,160 Speaker 1: You should be grateful for what we give to you? 234 00:13:12,160 --> 00:13:14,439 Speaker 1: You know, you should. You should stick to acting, You 235 00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:18,040 Speaker 1: should shut up and dribble, you should keep your mouth shut, 236 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,640 Speaker 1: and and so it is a It is a bit 237 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:25,200 Speaker 1: of a revolution, I think, to hit that point in 238 00:13:25,240 --> 00:13:28,400 Speaker 1: your life where you say, wait, I it's okay for 239 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:32,240 Speaker 1: me to want more. It's okay for me to want. 240 00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:36,840 Speaker 1: It's okay for me to exercise curiosity. It's okay for 241 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,840 Speaker 1: me to go about my day wanting to experience my 242 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:44,880 Speaker 1: highest good rather than make sure to your point, everyone 243 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:45,320 Speaker 1: likes me. 244 00:13:47,440 --> 00:13:50,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and every input is not equal, you know. 245 00:13:50,559 --> 00:13:53,600 Speaker 2: It's like that's the other thing is there are so 246 00:13:53,679 --> 00:13:57,679 Speaker 2: many people out there. I mean, most of it is 247 00:13:57,720 --> 00:13:59,679 Speaker 2: not conscious. I don't think or I like to think 248 00:13:59,720 --> 00:14:01,520 Speaker 2: that way because I think I'm kind of an optimist 249 00:14:02,080 --> 00:14:05,240 Speaker 2: of people who will try to categorize you to your point, 250 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:07,839 Speaker 2: all of us, right, that's human nature. They want to 251 00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 2: look at you and they say, you're an actress. That's 252 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,280 Speaker 2: what you do. You can't do anything else. And it's 253 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:15,719 Speaker 2: like everybody's multifaceted. But that's not something that people can 254 00:14:15,800 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 2: accept or have a harder accepting. 255 00:14:18,720 --> 00:14:20,680 Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors who make this 256 00:14:20,720 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: show possible. It's not lost on me that you and I, 257 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:40,880 Speaker 1: both as recovering people pleasers, have literally put our necks 258 00:14:40,920 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: on the line for what we believe in, for democracy. 259 00:14:46,960 --> 00:14:49,520 Speaker 1: You know, we've stepped out you in the sort of 260 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,920 Speaker 1: upper echelon that I so deeply look up to. So 261 00:14:53,160 --> 00:14:57,040 Speaker 1: I don't want to create a false equivalency here, but 262 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:01,000 Speaker 1: in our own ways, like as women in the public eye, 263 00:15:01,560 --> 00:15:04,480 Speaker 1: to go out and talk about big issues and to 264 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:09,360 Speaker 1: call bad actors on their bad behavior, be it the 265 00:15:09,560 --> 00:15:13,120 Speaker 1: you know, the former guy or you know as you did. 266 00:15:13,160 --> 00:15:16,600 Speaker 1: Oh so many times, Pete Doocey in the in the 267 00:15:16,640 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: press room. 268 00:15:18,040 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 2: I really good relationship with but that I know you do. 269 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 1: But I really appreciated the days where you just be 270 00:15:23,800 --> 00:15:28,720 Speaker 1: like come on, come on, like be better. I'm really curious, 271 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:31,720 Speaker 1: can you can you tell us a little bit about 272 00:15:31,800 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 1: your road to becoming press secretary? Obviously we're in this 273 00:15:35,560 --> 00:15:37,880 Speaker 1: moment where now you know you're transitioning into being a 274 00:15:37,920 --> 00:15:40,400 Speaker 1: TV host. But for the folks at home who don't 275 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 1: know how a person becomes a White House employee, let 276 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: alone the you know, the press secretary for the president, Like, 277 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:51,480 Speaker 1: what's the journey? Did you identify that as a desire 278 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: in you know, high school or college? Did it find you? 279 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:56,360 Speaker 1: How did this happen? 280 00:15:56,880 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 2: No? First of all, I had never even been to 281 00:15:59,440 --> 00:16:01,680 Speaker 2: the White House before I went to work there for 282 00:16:01,720 --> 00:16:06,160 Speaker 2: Barack Obama. Actually, during the transition, Bill Burton and I, 283 00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,360 Speaker 2: who was a former colleague, we went and we visited 284 00:16:09,400 --> 00:16:12,720 Speaker 2: the White House and Dana Perino was the Press secretary 285 00:16:12,760 --> 00:16:15,160 Speaker 2: because it was the Bush administration we were transitioning in, 286 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:17,400 Speaker 2: and we went up to the gate. It kind of 287 00:16:17,440 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 2: reminded me of like the wizrom of Oz where we 288 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:22,120 Speaker 2: were like hello, we're here, Will you let us in? 289 00:16:22,200 --> 00:16:24,720 Speaker 2: Are they gonna let us in? And so I may 290 00:16:24,720 --> 00:16:28,120 Speaker 2: have gone there. I think Obama actually went there briefly 291 00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:31,160 Speaker 2: during the campaign. I was with him, but that was 292 00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:33,560 Speaker 2: the first time I was really like looking around inside 293 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:38,000 Speaker 2: or had kind of gone inside. And so, no, it 294 00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:41,760 Speaker 2: was never an aspiration. I've never had a five year plan. 295 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:45,400 Speaker 2: I still don't. I find it kind of limiting and 296 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 2: a little overwhelming and limiting at the same time. And 297 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:53,600 Speaker 2: I never aspired to work in the White House, to 298 00:16:53,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: work in government anything like that. I think for me, 299 00:16:58,640 --> 00:17:03,160 Speaker 2: the journey was, you know, out of college, like two 300 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 2: years out of college, I went and I worked on 301 00:17:05,080 --> 00:17:09,119 Speaker 2: my first political campaign in Iowa, and I kind of 302 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,320 Speaker 2: got bitten by the bug. I loved being a part 303 00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:15,639 Speaker 2: of something that felt like it was bigger than myself. 304 00:17:16,160 --> 00:17:19,440 Speaker 2: But also just to go back to our shared analogy 305 00:17:19,480 --> 00:17:24,159 Speaker 2: of a sports team and a TV cast, I'm o 306 00:17:24,200 --> 00:17:28,240 Speaker 2: pretend like I know what that's like. It was it's 307 00:17:28,280 --> 00:17:31,040 Speaker 2: like a family working on a campaign. You're working toward 308 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:35,320 Speaker 2: a shared goal and there's a purpose and you're trying 309 00:17:35,359 --> 00:17:38,840 Speaker 2: to make the world better in some way. And I, 310 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:41,879 Speaker 2: you know, I loved it from the first campaign I did, 311 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,200 Speaker 2: and then really from there, I just kind of kept 312 00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:51,359 Speaker 2: working my way through campaigns and government jobs and tried 313 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 2: to work for people or tried to get jobs for people. 314 00:17:54,119 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 2: I guess it's not like you just get whatever job 315 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,560 Speaker 2: you want, obviously, but for people I believed in, you know, 316 00:18:00,040 --> 00:18:03,159 Speaker 2: And there were times when I, you know, when I 317 00:18:03,160 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 2: worked for Obama. When I went to work for Obama 318 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:10,200 Speaker 2: in February two thousand and seven, everybody's like, well, including 319 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:12,399 Speaker 2: my then boyfriend who's now my husband, who you know, 320 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:15,960 Speaker 2: was like, well, we've only been dating for not that long. 321 00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,760 Speaker 2: And he was like, well, I mean he'll only be 322 00:18:17,760 --> 00:18:19,239 Speaker 2: in the race for a couple of months, so like 323 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:22,120 Speaker 2: we can you know, keep dating long distance or whatever 324 00:18:22,160 --> 00:18:25,479 Speaker 2: it was. You know, there wasn't a real belief that 325 00:18:25,560 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 2: he could win, but I believed in him, so I 326 00:18:30,200 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 2: was like, well, here we go, you know. I mean, 327 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 2: and I think that has been a guiding principle for me, 328 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,919 Speaker 2: is like can you just like sleep on a ratty 329 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,520 Speaker 2: couch and eat bad pizza and drink bad beer and 330 00:18:43,960 --> 00:18:45,840 Speaker 2: still feel like this is a cool thing to be 331 00:18:45,880 --> 00:18:47,400 Speaker 2: a part I mean, I don't have to do that anymore. 332 00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 2: But like back in the day. So really that was 333 00:18:52,080 --> 00:18:54,840 Speaker 2: that was it. I mean, I really got into the 334 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,800 Speaker 2: communications and press world through kind of a funny journey 335 00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:00,800 Speaker 2: as well, which involved me knock on the door of 336 00:19:00,840 --> 00:19:04,200 Speaker 2: the communications director for the Iowa Democratic Party, this guy 337 00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,720 Speaker 2: named Mark Daily, who I literally was like, I think 338 00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:10,320 Speaker 2: I'm pretty good at writing, and I was, I'd love 339 00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:12,560 Speaker 2: to kind of learn. It's so cringey when I think 340 00:19:12,640 --> 00:19:16,199 Speaker 2: back to this, but not kind and generous. You know, 341 00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:19,439 Speaker 2: you meet kind and I've found I've met kind and 342 00:19:19,520 --> 00:19:21,960 Speaker 2: generous people that I didn't expect to be. Not that 343 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:24,600 Speaker 2: I expected them not to be, but I didn't anticipate 344 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:27,000 Speaker 2: they would be in my career. And then I've also 345 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:29,280 Speaker 2: been disappointed by people who I thought would be right. 346 00:19:29,359 --> 00:19:32,240 Speaker 2: It kind of it evens out in some ways, but 347 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,119 Speaker 2: I kind of got into it that way, you know, 348 00:19:36,280 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 2: the origin story, so to speak. 349 00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,960 Speaker 1: Oh, it's so cool. I remember hitting the ground in 350 00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: O seven and going to campaign in Texas and like, yeah, 351 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:51,679 Speaker 1: same thing, driving around with my buddy Adam and a 352 00:19:51,720 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 1: couple of young OBAMA staffers and we were like in 353 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,920 Speaker 1: a minivan going from college to college to go talk 354 00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: to people and you know, talk about transitioning out of 355 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: the Bush era. So many people back then were like, oh, 356 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,840 Speaker 1: you must be the black sheep of your family, and 357 00:20:06,880 --> 00:20:09,240 Speaker 1: I was like, I'm not related to those people from Texas. 358 00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:12,920 Speaker 1: My dad is from Canada. I do not claim any 359 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: of that history. But like, yeah, I joking, I started 360 00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:19,800 Speaker 1: wearing a Bush for Obama T shirt. There's probably a 361 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:20,920 Speaker 1: photo of it somewhere. 362 00:20:20,960 --> 00:20:23,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really fun. I feel like a vintage 363 00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,520 Speaker 2: thing right, Like. 364 00:20:25,640 --> 00:20:27,240 Speaker 1: At this point, I need to go through all my 365 00:20:27,320 --> 00:20:31,439 Speaker 1: storage boxes and find it. But oh yeah, it was 366 00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:33,280 Speaker 1: such a It was such a cool time, and I 367 00:20:33,359 --> 00:20:37,080 Speaker 1: definitely got bit by the bug as well because I 368 00:20:37,080 --> 00:20:41,119 Speaker 1: don't know, I think whatever whatever purpose you might feel, 369 00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:44,160 Speaker 1: you know, playing a team sport or you know, going 370 00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,240 Speaker 1: and making a television series or a film with you know, 371 00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: the team that is your cast, when when your purpose 372 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:57,159 Speaker 1: for your team is democracy, you know, the the elevation 373 00:20:57,359 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: of the quality of life for American communities. Like what 374 00:21:01,640 --> 00:21:05,640 Speaker 1: better purpose is there than that? True, it feels scary 375 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:08,040 Speaker 1: that we're at a time where we've got so many 376 00:21:08,040 --> 00:21:10,760 Speaker 1: people running who seem to have their guiding purpose be 377 00:21:11,320 --> 00:21:14,320 Speaker 1: more money for billionaires and nothing for anyone else. But 378 00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,160 Speaker 1: we'll get there. 379 00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: No it's so true. I mean, I think, I mean, 380 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:21,000 Speaker 2: I'm really interested in your journey into getting involved in 381 00:21:21,040 --> 00:21:22,840 Speaker 2: this too, But I just to echo kind of what 382 00:21:22,880 --> 00:21:27,320 Speaker 2: you said. I mean, what makes it kind of easy 383 00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:32,280 Speaker 2: to be involved in politics and government and even to 384 00:21:32,359 --> 00:21:36,679 Speaker 2: have transition to as a transitioned is that, you know, 385 00:21:36,720 --> 00:21:39,359 Speaker 2: it's really what I've tried to do most of the 386 00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,880 Speaker 2: time as much as I can, is like stay rooted 387 00:21:41,920 --> 00:21:44,959 Speaker 2: in what I actually believe, right, I mean, and I 388 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:47,440 Speaker 2: think sometimes and I know you've done the same thing. 389 00:21:47,600 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 2: It's and sometimes I think with kind of all of 390 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:54,040 Speaker 2: these stories over the last year or so about say, 391 00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:56,359 Speaker 2: like some people from Fox News who have gone on 392 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,879 Speaker 2: television and said things they didn't necessarily believe. You know, 393 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:01,760 Speaker 2: we can critique that, but we don't need to do 394 00:22:01,800 --> 00:22:04,800 Speaker 2: that now. But more you kind of feel it's like 395 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,280 Speaker 2: you go, I can't imagine going to work every day 396 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:12,800 Speaker 2: and working for someone you didn't believe in, or having 397 00:22:12,840 --> 00:22:17,080 Speaker 2: to advocate for things you just like were repelled. But 398 00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:22,040 Speaker 2: you know whatever, and that is I've been fortunate or 399 00:22:22,080 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 2: tried to follow the path of being authentic to what 400 00:22:25,960 --> 00:22:29,520 Speaker 2: I believe. And then it makes you know, being a 401 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,840 Speaker 2: press person or talking about on television easier because you 402 00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,360 Speaker 2: believe it, so it's who you are. 403 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really like that. So I'm curious then, because 404 00:22:41,880 --> 00:22:45,800 Speaker 1: making the transition from being the press secretary, you know, 405 00:22:45,840 --> 00:22:48,439 Speaker 1: from working in the White House every day to going 406 00:22:49,119 --> 00:22:52,639 Speaker 1: to shift and host a TV show to move on 407 00:22:52,800 --> 00:22:57,440 Speaker 1: to MSNBC. What made you decide to do that, And 408 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: how's the transition been for you, you. 409 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:07,520 Speaker 2: Know, I mean being serving as Biden's president Biden's press secretary. 410 00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,720 Speaker 2: I never thought I would go back to government. I 411 00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,639 Speaker 2: mean it was such icing on a cake for me. 412 00:23:12,560 --> 00:23:16,800 Speaker 2: I had served, had worked for Obama on and off, 413 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,480 Speaker 2: but mostly for the eight years plus two campaigns, and 414 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:23,840 Speaker 2: I ended up working on the Biden transition because I 415 00:23:23,880 --> 00:23:26,760 Speaker 2: felt like I want to do something. I don't know 416 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 2: what it is. I just feel like I need to 417 00:23:28,240 --> 00:23:31,399 Speaker 2: be a part of if Trump loses, journeying to the 418 00:23:31,440 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: other side, if that makes sense, whatever. 419 00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:37,600 Speaker 1: That is, and the repair of the rep right exactly. 420 00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:40,440 Speaker 2: And I think that's true for a lot of people 421 00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 2: who kind of ended up going back to government. I mean, 422 00:23:42,720 --> 00:23:44,680 Speaker 2: I'd always wanted to be the press secretary as like 423 00:23:44,720 --> 00:23:47,000 Speaker 2: a dream job in politics, and it was a dream 424 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:52,240 Speaker 2: job when I was doing it, but when I was hired, 425 00:23:52,880 --> 00:23:54,919 Speaker 2: part of what we talked about was kind of doing 426 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,480 Speaker 2: it for a short period of time, because part of 427 00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,080 Speaker 2: it was being able to high and build a team 428 00:24:01,119 --> 00:24:05,480 Speaker 2: of people who could be next generation. Sounds dramatic. It's 429 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 2: not like di seople were so much younger than me 430 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 2: or anything, but like kind of the next faces and 431 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:12,920 Speaker 2: voices of people who would be speaking on behalf of 432 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:17,000 Speaker 2: the White House and other government agencies. And so for me, 433 00:24:17,240 --> 00:24:19,520 Speaker 2: part of the appeal was obviously I'd always wanted to 434 00:24:19,520 --> 00:24:22,080 Speaker 2: do the job. I thought Joe Biden was exactly the 435 00:24:22,160 --> 00:24:26,280 Speaker 2: right person for the time, but also was building this 436 00:24:26,359 --> 00:24:29,800 Speaker 2: team of people, and so I actually stayed twice as long, 437 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:32,560 Speaker 2: I think, as as I as we had initially discussed, 438 00:24:33,920 --> 00:24:36,760 Speaker 2: and I would probably keep doing I mean, that job 439 00:24:36,840 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: was amazing. I loved doing it every day. But I 440 00:24:39,920 --> 00:24:44,719 Speaker 2: also feel, you know, so proud to have been a 441 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,600 Speaker 2: part of you know. I look around and Chris Maher, 442 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:50,400 Speaker 2: who was one of the deputy press secretaries, is now 443 00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:54,239 Speaker 2: running communications at the Pentagon, and Vedon Patel, who was 444 00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:56,920 Speaker 2: one of the assistant press secretaries, is now the deputy 445 00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,720 Speaker 2: spokesperson at the State Department, and you know, I could 446 00:24:59,720 --> 00:25:01,760 Speaker 2: go on. I mean, this is, this is these these 447 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,560 Speaker 2: are people who were out there playing really amazing roles. 448 00:25:05,600 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 2: And that was part of what was one of the 449 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,119 Speaker 2: things that was so amazing with that job. So I 450 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,400 Speaker 2: knew I wasn't gonna stay forever because I'd already had 451 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,960 Speaker 2: my moment and had my time and this was just 452 00:25:17,040 --> 00:25:20,800 Speaker 2: like being a part of yeah, transitioning from the last 453 00:25:20,920 --> 00:25:25,040 Speaker 2: in some ways. So yeah, but the transition itself, I mean, 454 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:28,840 Speaker 2: what has been so amazing. It's funny because I think 455 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,239 Speaker 2: when I started, I've never worked for even though I've 456 00:25:31,240 --> 00:25:33,960 Speaker 2: work government. It's a big bureaucracy obviously, but I've never 457 00:25:34,040 --> 00:25:37,000 Speaker 2: really worked for a big company before. Right, NBC is 458 00:25:37,040 --> 00:25:39,919 Speaker 2: a huge company. And I remember they reached out to 459 00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 2: me a month or two before I started and they 460 00:25:41,600 --> 00:25:44,120 Speaker 2: were like, we're sitting in your laptop and something else, 461 00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:46,280 Speaker 2: and I was like what, I was like, this is 462 00:25:46,359 --> 00:25:50,600 Speaker 2: very organized because the governments are like here's a pen, 463 00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:54,440 Speaker 2: They're like, good luck, go do your job. But what 464 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,800 Speaker 2: I what I've found to be so great is that 465 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:02,000 Speaker 2: there are similarities to government in politics and that there's 466 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:04,320 Speaker 2: a lot of smart and I nerdy and I mean 467 00:26:04,359 --> 00:26:07,639 Speaker 2: nerdy in the best way possible. People kind of wandering 468 00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 2: around where Like I'm sitting in my office now, I'm 469 00:26:11,480 --> 00:26:15,520 Speaker 2: like a next door to Christina Andano from Telemundo, three 470 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,560 Speaker 2: doors down from Joy Reid, around the corner from Andrew Mitchell. 471 00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:23,200 Speaker 2: You know Tom Costello who it talks about NASA flights 472 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 2: and airports and it's like interesting. So it's a bunch 473 00:26:26,320 --> 00:26:28,120 Speaker 2: of like nerdy people who are just trying to get 474 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:30,680 Speaker 2: more information and then tell the world about it. That's 475 00:26:31,000 --> 00:26:33,760 Speaker 2: in some way similar to what I've lived in before, 476 00:26:34,119 --> 00:26:36,840 Speaker 2: and when breaking news and things are happening, it's kind 477 00:26:36,840 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 2: of exciting. The funniest part of the transit. There's definitely 478 00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:42,919 Speaker 2: skill sets I had to learn, like reading a teleprompter 479 00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:46,440 Speaker 2: and things like that. But the funniest thing is I 480 00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,879 Speaker 2: feel like I spent so many years in government because 481 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,080 Speaker 2: I was kind of younger in certain jobs. I had 482 00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:57,119 Speaker 2: then typical dressing older, right, Like I kind of you know, 483 00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:00,639 Speaker 2: you just want to be taken seriously, so I would like, 484 00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:04,760 Speaker 2: you know, wear the kind of conservative navy blue suit. 485 00:27:05,359 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 2: I assume that there's probably some nine year old woman 486 00:27:08,200 --> 00:27:11,840 Speaker 2: who left all of her Saint John knits in like 487 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:15,000 Speaker 2: a consignment store that I bought and I could would 488 00:27:15,040 --> 00:27:18,040 Speaker 2: wear those so I could kind of look older. And 489 00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 2: now actually, in some ways it's like I'm back to 490 00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:25,000 Speaker 2: being exactly who I am in my real life. Right 491 00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:28,560 Speaker 2: Like I'm wearing jeans right now. I wear jeans to 492 00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:33,399 Speaker 2: work every day, so does everybody, most people here. So 493 00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 2: that's a funny part of the transition I didn't anticipate. 494 00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:39,360 Speaker 2: But what I've really tried to think about is how 495 00:27:39,400 --> 00:27:44,239 Speaker 2: can I use my experience from government and politics and 496 00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,200 Speaker 2: help make things make sense for people but also help 497 00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:49,840 Speaker 2: I mean one of the things. And I'd be interested 498 00:27:49,840 --> 00:27:53,639 Speaker 2: because I'm sure you've experienced this. Every politician I know, 499 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:56,160 Speaker 2: or anybody I know who's been in the public eye 500 00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,680 Speaker 2: as you have been for years, feels caricatured right by 501 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,639 Speaker 2: how they are thought of or described right, and that 502 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,720 Speaker 2: is very true for politicians right for good or for bad. 503 00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:11,159 Speaker 2: You are tough. You can't be tough and goofy. You 504 00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:17,119 Speaker 2: can't be kind of like smart and also edgy. I mean, 505 00:28:17,119 --> 00:28:20,800 Speaker 2: it's you know, there's and so part of what has 506 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 2: excited me about being here is like being able to 507 00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:26,960 Speaker 2: kind of peel the curtain back a little bit to 508 00:28:27,119 --> 00:28:29,920 Speaker 2: who people are right and show a part of these 509 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,399 Speaker 2: elected officials in a way that people don't see. I mean, 510 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,159 Speaker 2: I'm a person who thinks that most people work in 511 00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,560 Speaker 2: government and do it for good. Even if you disagree 512 00:28:37,600 --> 00:28:40,080 Speaker 2: with me on policy issues, people do it for good. 513 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 2: They want to make the world a better place. There 514 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 2: are bad actors, bad apples, for sure, and so that's 515 00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:49,080 Speaker 2: been a part. So it's really been No one's asked 516 00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,120 Speaker 2: me to be anything other than who I am and 517 00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 2: say what I think, and all what I try to 518 00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:56,920 Speaker 2: do is kind of integrate in my experience in a 519 00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:59,320 Speaker 2: way that's informative. But I'm learning every day. 520 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:04,640 Speaker 1: So how does it feel, you know, sitting in your office, 521 00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,960 Speaker 1: having learned all these new skill sets, having this new career, 522 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:15,480 Speaker 1: being able to be more yourself, being asked to just 523 00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,560 Speaker 1: be who you are, and being able to offer that 524 00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:24,479 Speaker 1: sort of position of openness to your guests. Does it 525 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:30,520 Speaker 1: in a way? Has it helped you feel less caricatured? 526 00:29:30,600 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: How did you feel being a political figurehead? How did 527 00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:38,040 Speaker 1: you feel like you were caricatured as press secretarium? Do 528 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:39,280 Speaker 1: you feel like it's changing? 529 00:29:40,040 --> 00:29:43,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I think that you know, when I 530 00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 2: was the press secretary. It was like sometimes I would 531 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:49,960 Speaker 2: need people and they would think I was about to 532 00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:53,800 Speaker 2: debate them or something. You know, that's what I did 533 00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 2: in my day to day job, right sure, at the podium, 534 00:29:57,560 --> 00:30:01,040 Speaker 2: but that wasn't That's not how I spent my weekends. Right. 535 00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 2: I have two little kids, I'm a mom, I live 536 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,880 Speaker 2: in a neighborhood. I take my daughter the bus every morning. 537 00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:11,720 Speaker 2: You know, it's not And I think, what what has 538 00:30:11,800 --> 00:30:14,880 Speaker 2: been amazing about this transition for me? It's not, you know. 539 00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:16,840 Speaker 2: And the thing is that when you're the press secretary, 540 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,520 Speaker 2: it's not about you. It's about you speaking on behalf 541 00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:24,200 Speaker 2: of the person you're you're representing. Right, So it wasn't 542 00:30:24,240 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 2: about me sharing more of myself, especially in the time 543 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:31,320 Speaker 2: we were in it is still in you know. It 544 00:30:31,400 --> 00:30:34,520 Speaker 2: was about and this is something the President and I 545 00:30:34,560 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: talked about when early on, was really restoring some kind 546 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 2: of calm and stability to the room and trying to 547 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,280 Speaker 2: take some venom out of the whole conversation, including with 548 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,720 Speaker 2: people who were just you were disagreeing with or being 549 00:30:49,760 --> 00:30:52,320 Speaker 2: propaganda's in there. You got to cut them down, shut 550 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,400 Speaker 2: them down, but not in a way that was abusive. 551 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:00,280 Speaker 2: You know, and so I think that was about out 552 00:31:00,720 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 2: playing the role of doing that in my day to 553 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:10,280 Speaker 2: day life. I am definitely direct and opinionated, but I 554 00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:14,560 Speaker 2: also am multifaceted, just like everybody is right and so 555 00:31:14,640 --> 00:31:18,280 Speaker 2: it's been And I think when I spend time with 556 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,000 Speaker 2: politicians or people who I have on the show, especially 557 00:31:22,040 --> 00:31:23,480 Speaker 2: if I go out and I spend a day with 558 00:31:23,520 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 2: them or something, what I really want to bring out 559 00:31:26,400 --> 00:31:29,600 Speaker 2: is who they are, you know, who they not. Yes, 560 00:31:29,640 --> 00:31:32,880 Speaker 2: their policy positions, that's important and people should understand them. 561 00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:36,760 Speaker 2: But I also think there is a, in part because 562 00:31:36,800 --> 00:31:40,920 Speaker 2: of Trump and maybe in large part, a belief that 563 00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,600 Speaker 2: like our institutions and the people who represent us are 564 00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:48,600 Speaker 2: all bad and that's just not true. And so I 565 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:50,760 Speaker 2: think part of it is trying to bring some of 566 00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,720 Speaker 2: that to life for people. Yeah, putting about myself, you know, 567 00:31:55,000 --> 00:31:56,600 Speaker 2: and being being true to myself. 568 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:08,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, and now a word from our sponsors. I think 569 00:32:08,240 --> 00:32:12,520 Speaker 1: it's really important that we're reminded that people are human. 570 00:32:12,760 --> 00:32:16,480 Speaker 1: And I do think that the level of hypocrisy that 571 00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:21,080 Speaker 1: he injected into our political landscape did such damage. I mean, 572 00:32:21,120 --> 00:32:24,040 Speaker 1: you see it, you know, on the right, even the 573 00:32:24,080 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 1: fact that you've got you know, a Lauren Bobert out 574 00:32:26,840 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: there rallying against equity equality, you know, saying all the 575 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,520 Speaker 1: hideous things that she does about our queer communities and 576 00:32:35,560 --> 00:32:38,560 Speaker 1: our drag communities. And then she's like, you know, basically 577 00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:41,000 Speaker 1: having sex in a theater in front of children. It's like, 578 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: it's the hypocrisy. 579 00:32:43,880 --> 00:32:45,959 Speaker 2: Like is she going to go there? She's going there, 580 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:47,239 Speaker 2: and I'm so happy about it. 581 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: It's the hypocrisy for me where I'm like, you know, 582 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: it's it's kind of wild, ma'am. Like, it's not the performers, 583 00:32:57,160 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: and it's not you know, the kids who have two 584 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,320 Speaker 1: moms that are being exposed to weirdness in the world. 585 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 1: It's apparently the people who have to sit next to 586 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:11,800 Speaker 1: you at Beetlejuice, Like, ah, it's tough, and and I 587 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,920 Speaker 1: understand that there, you know, there's so many of us, 588 00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:18,960 Speaker 1: myself included. And look, I'm really tapped into politics. I 589 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:20,840 Speaker 1: know not everybody is in the way that I am, 590 00:33:20,880 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: and certainly even fewer of us are in the way 591 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:26,040 Speaker 1: that you are. But I think it can get tiring 592 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: to say, Okay, these people who preach about a moral 593 00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:33,520 Speaker 1: core don't have one. These people who talk about anti 594 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:38,200 Speaker 1: corruption are the most corrupt. You know, people feel a 595 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 1: little exhausted about how to navigate with any sense of sanity, 596 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,440 Speaker 1: you know, the upcoming election. Where do they get news 597 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:50,640 Speaker 1: that they can trust? There's so many different places, you know, 598 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:54,800 Speaker 1: trying to input at all of us to your point, 599 00:33:54,920 --> 00:33:57,200 Speaker 1: you know, the most watched news network in America had 600 00:33:57,320 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 1: had its hosts talking about how much they hated the 601 00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:02,200 Speaker 1: former president and then going on the air and lying 602 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,719 Speaker 1: about him being a good guy. So, as a literal 603 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:11,600 Speaker 1: expert in this world, what news sources do you trust? 604 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:15,239 Speaker 1: How do you where do you recommend we go? And 605 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,760 Speaker 1: how do you help our audience? You know, the folks 606 00:34:17,800 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: at home listening to us today, are there like a 607 00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:24,600 Speaker 1: couple of hot tips you have for who to trust 608 00:34:24,840 --> 00:34:25,600 Speaker 1: and how to know? 609 00:34:26,640 --> 00:34:29,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a good question. One let me just 610 00:34:29,280 --> 00:34:31,800 Speaker 2: start with it is it is. Let me just acknowledge 611 00:34:31,880 --> 00:34:35,080 Speaker 2: it is an overwhelming time, right, and it can feel 612 00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:41,160 Speaker 2: overwhelming when you look at the threats that we're facing 613 00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 2: to democracy, to women's rights, to human rights. And I 614 00:34:45,400 --> 00:34:48,640 Speaker 2: consider LGBTQ rights, trans rights to be part of that, 615 00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:53,480 Speaker 2: and I honestly is a sidebar. I honestly don't understand 616 00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,000 Speaker 2: why this is the hill anyone dies on, Like why 617 00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 2: you care? It is like beyond it being kind of 618 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:02,359 Speaker 2: immoral and acting people's lives, I mean, opposing how people 619 00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,680 Speaker 2: are living their lives. It's like, why do you care? 620 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:07,839 Speaker 2: Why is this? If you're so about government getting out 621 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,640 Speaker 2: of your business, why do you care about how people 622 00:35:10,920 --> 00:35:12,240 Speaker 2: are living their true lives? 623 00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:15,319 Speaker 1: Well, because they can't win on any issues because their 624 00:35:15,320 --> 00:35:19,440 Speaker 1: policies are trash, so they have to create hysteria and 625 00:35:19,600 --> 00:35:24,040 Speaker 1: fear to gain voters. It's like, it's it's it's literally 626 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,200 Speaker 1: just the demonizing of our most vulnerable populations to create 627 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:33,640 Speaker 1: the hysterics, rather than saying like, yeah, actually maybe better 628 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,080 Speaker 1: healthcare and infrastructure would be good for everybody. They have 629 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,759 Speaker 1: nothing to win on, so they they they're vicious and 630 00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:42,040 Speaker 1: the cruelty is the point. 631 00:35:42,200 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 2: Unfortunately, it is the point, you know. I would say, 632 00:35:46,800 --> 00:35:49,560 Speaker 2: on my best days, what I try to do is 633 00:35:49,719 --> 00:35:53,760 Speaker 2: read broadly, and I mean yes, I read the Times, 634 00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:57,279 Speaker 2: the posts, try to read some in Politico, try to 635 00:35:57,320 --> 00:36:00,120 Speaker 2: read some now granted, this is my job is not 636 00:36:00,200 --> 00:36:03,920 Speaker 2: everybody's job, right, It is like you know, and I 637 00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:08,439 Speaker 2: try to read explainers of things so that I can 638 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:12,720 Speaker 2: understand for myself what is going on in a particular circumstance. 639 00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:17,440 Speaker 2: I'm always wary. I do probably have like a contrarian 640 00:36:17,560 --> 00:36:20,920 Speaker 2: streak in me. I'm always wary when there's like everybody's 641 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,960 Speaker 2: chasing the same soccer ball. I'm like, wait a second, 642 00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,320 Speaker 2: I'm not sure about that. And I'm also weary sometimes. 643 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,040 Speaker 2: And I live in Washington. Obviously, I love this town. 644 00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 2: I think there's a lot of great people. But there 645 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:36,440 Speaker 2: is sometimes a tendency to speak in a language that 646 00:36:36,560 --> 00:36:39,479 Speaker 2: is both inaccessible and in my view, as a cover 647 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,320 Speaker 2: up of not understanding the actual issues at play. 648 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:44,960 Speaker 1: Right Wait, can you say more about that? 649 00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:47,680 Speaker 2: Well, what I mean is like, sometimes you'll hear people 650 00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:51,320 Speaker 2: and this happens on television too, for sure, where people 651 00:36:51,360 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 2: will be like, well, you know, the person from the 652 00:36:56,520 --> 00:37:01,000 Speaker 2: Blue Dog Caucus really disagreed with the squad member and 653 00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:04,080 Speaker 2: that's really the core issue, and you're like, is that 654 00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:08,759 Speaker 2: the core issue or is It's like there can be 655 00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:13,279 Speaker 2: a tendency to kind of go deeply into Washington, DC vernacular, 656 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:16,600 Speaker 2: which can be sort of a comfort place but also 657 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:20,120 Speaker 2: a place where you miss the force through the trees 658 00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:24,759 Speaker 2: sometimes and also sometimes I think it can be a 659 00:37:24,840 --> 00:37:28,319 Speaker 2: cover up for really not knowing the depth of the 660 00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,600 Speaker 2: policy substance at times. Right, these issues are complicated, They're 661 00:37:32,640 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 2: not always black and white. So I think reading broadly, 662 00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 2: I try. I mean, I think The Atlantic is an 663 00:37:41,480 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 2: amazing magazine. They do really excellent work, long form pieces. 664 00:37:46,640 --> 00:37:48,520 Speaker 2: When I can read them, I really try to read. 665 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,319 Speaker 2: But it's really about consuming a lot so that you 666 00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:55,080 Speaker 2: can make your own decisions. 667 00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:55,560 Speaker 1: Right. 668 00:37:56,680 --> 00:38:00,640 Speaker 2: Are there trusted broadcasters? Of course there are, and you 669 00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:05,919 Speaker 2: know they're on every nearly nearly every network. But I 670 00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 2: also think it's important to empower yourself with information and 671 00:38:10,120 --> 00:38:16,879 Speaker 2: from trusted sources, and largely that is media organizations of 672 00:38:16,920 --> 00:38:21,200 Speaker 2: all of many kinds. And you know, if you can 673 00:38:21,239 --> 00:38:24,680 Speaker 2: consume more, you're going to be more informed, which is 674 00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:26,960 Speaker 2: easier said than done. I realized people are very busy 675 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:29,920 Speaker 2: out there, But if you were starting from scratch and 676 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,920 Speaker 2: had like an hour each day, that's what I would advise. 677 00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I really like that. I think it's interesting. I 678 00:38:36,280 --> 00:38:41,319 Speaker 1: hear you doing this thing that I really admire, where 679 00:38:41,360 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: you're saying, you know, there's trusted reporters on almost every 680 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:48,879 Speaker 1: news network. You're you're you're exercising a level of decorum 681 00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:52,800 Speaker 1: to not, you know, go out, and perhaps it's because 682 00:38:52,840 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: you know better than to offer whoever will listen to 683 00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,560 Speaker 1: this podcast the clickbait of you saying like the people 684 00:38:58,600 --> 00:39:00,680 Speaker 1: that I will call trash, you won't call trash, and 685 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:01,480 Speaker 1: I respect you. 686 00:39:01,520 --> 00:39:05,239 Speaker 2: I mean, look, I don't think Hannity is telling you 687 00:39:05,360 --> 00:39:05,880 Speaker 2: the truth? 688 00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:09,439 Speaker 1: Right, Well, no, we know he's not. H We've seen 689 00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,440 Speaker 1: the text messages. We know that none of them were 690 00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 1: telling us the truth. 691 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:16,200 Speaker 2: Right. There's plenty of right wing conservative people who I'm 692 00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 2: not going to name because I'm not going to give 693 00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,880 Speaker 2: them the dignity of naming them, because these are people 694 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 2: just randomly attack me for their own clicks, are not trusted. 695 00:39:25,719 --> 00:39:29,120 Speaker 2: But I think, yeah, most people you know who you 696 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:30,920 Speaker 2: will know who you know? Right? 697 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: Yeah? 698 00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:32,440 Speaker 2: Yeah? 699 00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:35,799 Speaker 1: But when I when when you think about because look, 700 00:39:35,840 --> 00:39:39,759 Speaker 1: you have this sort of dual experience as a as 701 00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,880 Speaker 1: a person, a citizen, a voter in our country, and 702 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:47,600 Speaker 1: also as a figurehead in the media. I'm watching the 703 00:39:47,640 --> 00:39:49,840 Speaker 1: ways in which I imagine you have to sort of 704 00:39:50,520 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 1: consider certain things you say or express because of the 705 00:39:54,360 --> 00:39:58,040 Speaker 1: position that you hold. When when you are actually in 706 00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: your chair and reporting the news on your show, do 707 00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,240 Speaker 1: you consciously have to think about ways that you don't 708 00:40:06,600 --> 00:40:12,359 Speaker 1: let your personal feelings, opinions bias whatever word you want 709 00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:16,640 Speaker 1: to fill in the blank into the reporting. Or do 710 00:40:16,719 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: you think we are in an era where part of 711 00:40:19,560 --> 00:40:22,680 Speaker 1: the reason people tune in to your show is because 712 00:40:22,719 --> 00:40:25,680 Speaker 1: they want to hear your opinion on the issues and 713 00:40:25,719 --> 00:40:29,160 Speaker 1: how those issues make you feel. How do you balance 714 00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:33,120 Speaker 1: that on the tightrope of your job? 715 00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,600 Speaker 2: I mean, I think part of it is being using 716 00:40:37,640 --> 00:40:41,040 Speaker 2: my experience as a way to inform, right, and not 717 00:40:41,239 --> 00:40:45,000 Speaker 2: hiding not trying to hide it. Right. If I went 718 00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:51,239 Speaker 2: out there and said, on one hand, abortion activists are 719 00:40:51,280 --> 00:40:55,319 Speaker 2: saying this, and on another hand, anti abortion activists are 720 00:40:55,360 --> 00:40:58,719 Speaker 2: saying that, it wouldn't be very authentic, right. I mean, 721 00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:02,160 Speaker 2: I have done work for Planned parenthood. I have spoken 722 00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:05,680 Speaker 2: many times about how important that issue is. That wouldn't 723 00:41:05,680 --> 00:41:08,920 Speaker 2: be authentic. If I were to go out and say, 724 00:41:10,960 --> 00:41:14,960 Speaker 2: you know, President Biden, who I like a great deal personally, 725 00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,120 Speaker 2: by the way, and I've said is the greatest president 726 00:41:19,160 --> 00:41:22,280 Speaker 2: in history and has never done anything wrong, that wouldn't 727 00:41:22,320 --> 00:41:26,239 Speaker 2: be true either, right, right, And so part of it 728 00:41:26,320 --> 00:41:29,400 Speaker 2: is really trying to evaluate how can I use my 729 00:41:29,520 --> 00:41:33,560 Speaker 2: experience in a way that is informative because I can 730 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,239 Speaker 2: sometimes say, even to even when it's a person or 731 00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:39,320 Speaker 2: a person who may be on the side of issues, 732 00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:42,239 Speaker 2: I agree with, you know what, that's actually not a 733 00:41:42,239 --> 00:41:45,359 Speaker 2: big deal, or like we shouldn't be overreacting about that, 734 00:41:45,480 --> 00:41:47,600 Speaker 2: because by the way, everything is not a five alarm fire. 735 00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:53,040 Speaker 2: Otherwise we're all hiding under our beds. It also means 736 00:41:53,080 --> 00:41:55,759 Speaker 2: that I hope that I can that I am establishing 737 00:41:55,800 --> 00:41:59,399 Speaker 2: credibility with the audience where they know that what I'm 738 00:41:59,440 --> 00:42:05,120 Speaker 2: trying to do is provide facts and informed view. I 739 00:42:05,160 --> 00:42:09,799 Speaker 2: am not trying to gaslight you. I'm not trying to 740 00:42:09,920 --> 00:42:16,520 Speaker 2: spin you. But there are moments when information and details 741 00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:20,640 Speaker 2: and facts are informative to empower people. That's like when 742 00:42:20,920 --> 00:42:22,600 Speaker 2: when people watch the show and we don't do this. 743 00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:24,560 Speaker 2: We don't meet this bar every week, no one does. 744 00:42:24,600 --> 00:42:27,520 Speaker 2: But like I want people to end watching the show 745 00:42:27,560 --> 00:42:30,400 Speaker 2: and feel like I learned something I didn't know. I 746 00:42:30,440 --> 00:42:32,239 Speaker 2: want to go tell my neighbor about that, or I 747 00:42:32,320 --> 00:42:35,000 Speaker 2: learned something about a person that surprised me. One or 748 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,279 Speaker 2: the other. Both is like you're you know, that's a 749 00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,399 Speaker 2: sweet spot, and that means sometimes you're calling things out. 750 00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:43,359 Speaker 2: I mean a couple of weeks ago, it was like 751 00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:48,719 Speaker 2: this talking point from the right about how Democrats were 752 00:42:48,840 --> 00:42:53,560 Speaker 2: for like third like late term abortion, and that was 753 00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:58,480 Speaker 2: the primary policy thats were running on. I was like, well, 754 00:42:58,560 --> 00:43:00,480 Speaker 2: I know this is not true, but I need to 755 00:43:00,680 --> 00:43:03,640 Speaker 2: need to dive into the facts of what the truth is, right, 756 00:43:03,760 --> 00:43:07,040 Speaker 2: what's the thing? Will you learn a very tiny percentage 757 00:43:07,080 --> 00:43:09,920 Speaker 2: of abortions or in the third term, the vast vast 758 00:43:09,960 --> 00:43:12,520 Speaker 2: majority of them are because the baby will not survive 759 00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:17,480 Speaker 2: or the mother may not make it. You know, there's 760 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:19,239 Speaker 2: there's so many and so we tried to really go 761 00:43:19,360 --> 00:43:23,960 Speaker 2: through a fact based debunking of it because I think, yeah, 762 00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,840 Speaker 2: it kind of feels magical when you get all those facts. 763 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:29,799 Speaker 2: But also it's about wanting to empower people to be 764 00:43:29,880 --> 00:43:34,239 Speaker 2: able to make the arguments with the information, not just words, right, 765 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,400 Speaker 2: but with the details of it. And so you know, 766 00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 2: we kind of look for things where we can kind 767 00:43:40,040 --> 00:43:46,600 Speaker 2: of debunk, inform empower people who are watching. That's the goal. 768 00:43:46,719 --> 00:43:49,040 Speaker 1: Well, and it feels so important. I mean, heading into 769 00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,840 Speaker 1: an election year, you do you see these talking points 770 00:43:52,840 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 1: on the right that feel actual. I mean it's insane, 771 00:43:55,719 --> 00:43:58,800 Speaker 1: like to say that anyone is out you know, performing 772 00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,560 Speaker 1: abortions in the ninth month, Like, what are we talking about? 773 00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,399 Speaker 1: That's not a thing that happens, and yet we are 774 00:44:05,440 --> 00:44:08,560 Speaker 1: really on the receiving end of this fire hose of misinformation, 775 00:44:08,960 --> 00:44:12,719 Speaker 1: and I think it creates a sense of panic that 776 00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:15,200 Speaker 1: the election is coming, you know, even though it's a 777 00:44:15,280 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 1: year out. How do you sort of advise people to 778 00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 1: think about the election and how do you take to 779 00:44:27,239 --> 00:44:32,120 Speaker 1: your point? You know, what you're talking about is practicality. 780 00:44:32,239 --> 00:44:37,320 Speaker 1: It's giving people practical, factual information to combat the wild 781 00:44:37,440 --> 00:44:40,120 Speaker 1: world that we seem to live in. And we see it, 782 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,120 Speaker 1: you know, we see news organizations running polls talking about 783 00:44:44,120 --> 00:44:46,560 Speaker 1: Biden's age, even though him and Trump are basically the 784 00:44:46,560 --> 00:44:49,920 Speaker 1: same age. He is, you know, to your point, whether 785 00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:52,040 Speaker 1: you think he's a perfect president or not, he is 786 00:44:52,080 --> 00:44:54,440 Speaker 1: one of our most effective presidents in sixty years. The 787 00:44:54,520 --> 00:44:57,000 Speaker 1: data doesn't lie, you know, what he's been able to 788 00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:00,239 Speaker 1: accomplish an infrastructure in the American Rescue Plan, and the 789 00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:02,600 Speaker 1: work he's doing to combat inflation. Whether you like the 790 00:45:02,640 --> 00:45:06,359 Speaker 1: guy or not, he's a really good president. And it's 791 00:45:06,520 --> 00:45:09,600 Speaker 1: weird to me that we seem to live in this 792 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:13,280 Speaker 1: upside down where we pretend that maybe that isn't true, 793 00:45:13,360 --> 00:45:18,000 Speaker 1: or we pretend that there's two similar options. We made 794 00:45:18,040 --> 00:45:20,959 Speaker 1: the mistake with Trump and Hillary Clinton, you know, saying 795 00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:25,000 Speaker 1: they were basically the same and clearly know so I 796 00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:28,080 Speaker 1: guess I just wonder from your advantage point, Yeah, we 797 00:45:28,120 --> 00:45:33,200 Speaker 1: know the truth. How do you recommend people think about 798 00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:37,440 Speaker 1: the election? And how do you how can you encourage 799 00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:41,759 Speaker 1: people to think about it in practical ways that are 800 00:45:41,760 --> 00:45:43,319 Speaker 1: actually rooted in reality. 801 00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:46,760 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, here's the thing that's so important to remember. 802 00:45:46,920 --> 00:45:49,400 Speaker 2: You don't need to have a television show or a 803 00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,920 Speaker 2: podcast in order to have your voice heard. And I 804 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 2: say that not just to say it, but because the 805 00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:00,920 Speaker 2: most trusted voices are neighbors. We know this, our neighbors 806 00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:05,040 Speaker 2: or friends, our people, you know. And so my mother 807 00:46:05,080 --> 00:46:07,440 Speaker 2: always always says, like, especially if you're going through a 808 00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:10,160 Speaker 2: stressful time, I always think of like moving or whatever it 809 00:46:10,200 --> 00:46:13,560 Speaker 2: may be, bite the elephant, one bite at a time. 810 00:46:14,080 --> 00:46:17,200 Speaker 2: And that is very true. It can feel so overwhelming, 811 00:46:17,239 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 2: even though it's important to remember what's at stake, it 812 00:46:20,520 --> 00:46:23,000 Speaker 2: can feel overwhelming to be like, oh my god, what 813 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,959 Speaker 2: am I going to do to save our democracy? Right? Well, 814 00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,880 Speaker 2: it's like every person matters and every voice matters. But 815 00:46:29,120 --> 00:46:31,960 Speaker 2: what you can do to save democracy might be to 816 00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,239 Speaker 2: have ten neighbors over and like, you know, see if 817 00:46:36,280 --> 00:46:40,520 Speaker 2: everybody can give five dollars and make some food for 818 00:46:40,640 --> 00:46:42,960 Speaker 2: the local campaign office. I don't even have to do 819 00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:47,080 Speaker 2: all those things. It is about finding the way that 820 00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:53,840 Speaker 2: works in your life to contribute to the cause. And 821 00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:57,000 Speaker 2: there is not one answer and the answer, because I 822 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:00,040 Speaker 2: think this kind of stops people sometimes. It's like we 823 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,880 Speaker 2: let n't even know. I don't have any time, and 824 00:47:02,000 --> 00:47:04,799 Speaker 2: I don't have a megaphone, and it's like you don't 825 00:47:04,840 --> 00:47:08,560 Speaker 2: need that you need. Right, you can decide I'm going 826 00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:10,959 Speaker 2: to do three things before the end of the year 827 00:47:11,400 --> 00:47:14,680 Speaker 2: to contribute to this. Can you take an older neighbor 828 00:47:14,719 --> 00:47:19,760 Speaker 2: to get registered, Can you you know, get your college 829 00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:24,160 Speaker 2: kids friends registered? And can you also like give five dollars? Well, 830 00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,160 Speaker 2: then you've done three things, right. It's about not making 831 00:47:27,160 --> 00:47:29,480 Speaker 2: it so overwhelming that it's impossible. 832 00:47:31,000 --> 00:47:33,600 Speaker 1: I like that, friends. There is just so much that 833 00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:36,640 Speaker 1: I want to get into on this incredibly important topic 834 00:47:36,760 --> 00:47:40,960 Speaker 1: with this incredibly impressive guest that we are actually going 835 00:47:41,000 --> 00:47:43,600 Speaker 1: to pause here and be back with a part two 836 00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:44,800 Speaker 1: with Jen Zaki