1 00:00:00,880 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, a family desperate searching for Matthew. 2 00:00:10,119 --> 00:00:14,760 Speaker 1: Last scene in his Hyundai Tucson leaving Vegas. Good evening. 3 00:00:14,880 --> 00:00:17,360 Speaker 1: I mean, see, Grace, this is Crime Stories. I want 4 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:18,840 Speaker 1: to thank you for being with us. 5 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:23,040 Speaker 2: Twenty eight year old Matthew Spencer embarked on a cross country. 6 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:25,440 Speaker 3: Moved his family, with whom he shares a deep bond, 7 00:00:25,600 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 3: grew anxious when days. 8 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:32,839 Speaker 1: Passed without word on his whereabouts? Where is Matthew tonight? 9 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: His family desperate, begging you for help with us tonight. 10 00:00:37,120 --> 00:00:44,280 Speaker 1: Two very special guests, Kara Spencer that's Matthew's sister, very 11 00:00:44,280 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: close and Randy Green, Matthew's cousin, both of them joining 12 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 1: us tonight, asking for your help and in that vein. 13 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:56,319 Speaker 1: The first thing I want to do is give you 14 00:00:56,600 --> 00:01:01,200 Speaker 1: a tip line. It's the flagstaff PD eight seven seven 15 00:01:01,680 --> 00:01:07,600 Speaker 1: fourteen fourteen repeat nine two eight seven seven four fourteen fourteen. 16 00:01:07,720 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: Look at Matthew. Don't look away. Look at Matthew. His 17 00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:17,000 Speaker 1: disappearance has torn apart in the lives of everyone in 18 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:22,000 Speaker 1: his family. Where is he? Can we bring him home? 19 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,679 Speaker 1: Straight out to his sister Randy. Randy explain to me 20 00:01:26,920 --> 00:01:30,840 Speaker 1: what was happening in the days leading up to Matthew 21 00:01:31,000 --> 00:01:33,240 Speaker 1: seemingly just dropping into thin air. 22 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 4: Yeah, and that's exactly how it was. 23 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 5: Everything was very normal, Like Kara was saying, he had 24 00:01:40,440 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 5: talked to his older sister and her they were through 25 00:01:43,560 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 5: a messenger and it wasn't like an actual phone call 26 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:49,040 Speaker 5: because he said he didn't have enough you know service. 27 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,720 Speaker 5: He was in a dead zone area and he everything 28 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:54,960 Speaker 5: was fine. He asked them how dinner was going. He 29 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:57,320 Speaker 5: talked to his other sister, let her know that she was, 30 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 5: you know, he was okay, he was driving, and you. 31 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,400 Speaker 4: Know, that was it. 32 00:02:03,000 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 1: Joining us in addition to Matthew's family, an All Star 33 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:10,760 Speaker 1: panel straight out to Evan Short joining US Director Search 34 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,960 Speaker 1: Operations for Missing an America network who is actually involved 35 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:20,840 Speaker 1: in the search for Matthew Spencer. Evan, what do you 36 00:02:20,960 --> 00:02:22,800 Speaker 1: note as we go to air tonight. 37 00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 6: Well, there was a lot of search that we conducted, 38 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:33,600 Speaker 6: following the steps in the data that was received within 39 00:02:33,639 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 6: the Google account that the searches and corresponding with the 40 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:43,080 Speaker 6: information we received from law enforcement, the flat cameras in Flagstaff, 41 00:02:43,560 --> 00:02:47,000 Speaker 6: Pingdom And we also confirmed that with his Google search 42 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 6: data that matched up with that. 43 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,800 Speaker 1: You have been conducting an extensive search. Evan, how many 44 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 1: people are looking for Matthew. 45 00:02:57,960 --> 00:02:58,560 Speaker 7: Well, we have. 46 00:02:59,000 --> 00:03:02,640 Speaker 6: Myself, my wife, who's my business partner in the searches. 47 00:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,880 Speaker 6: We've had a couple of volunteers that were shown up 48 00:03:07,040 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 6: with the searches from the local area. 49 00:03:12,760 --> 00:03:16,600 Speaker 1: This must be excruciating for the family. Sidney Sumner, what 50 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: do we know, Sydney Crime Story's investigative reporter about his 51 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 1: initial disappearance. Where was he, where was he headed and why? 52 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,280 Speaker 8: Well, Matthew was headed from Vegas to a new home 53 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 8: in Houston, Texas. 54 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:32,799 Speaker 9: That was his destination. And we know that. 55 00:03:32,720 --> 00:03:36,880 Speaker 8: Matthew left Vegas on August the fourth. He traveled through 56 00:03:36,920 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 8: Arizona and then he told his sisters he made it 57 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,680 Speaker 8: to New Mexico. But with cameras, we know that he 58 00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:49,480 Speaker 8: only made it into Arizona. There were no cameras capturing 59 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 8: him going into New Mexico as far as we know. 60 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 8: So we know that this camera captured Matthew going into Flagstaff, Arizona. 61 00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,160 Speaker 8: And then in the next two two days they were 62 00:04:01,240 --> 00:04:04,440 Speaker 8: able to use his Google account to track his location 63 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:09,120 Speaker 8: on and off, so that last no location. On August sixth, 64 00:04:09,120 --> 00:04:15,360 Speaker 8: at eleven forty two PM is somewhere between Williams and Belmont, Arizona, 65 00:04:15,720 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 8: and this is just a little bit west of Flagstaff. 66 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 8: So we made it going east through Flagstaff and then 67 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:26,120 Speaker 8: for some reason decided to track backtrack a little bit 68 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 8: and we're now in between Belmont and Williams off of 69 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,000 Speaker 8: B forty Rayby. 70 00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:35,480 Speaker 1: You were recounting what led up to the realization that 71 00:04:35,520 --> 00:04:38,919 Speaker 1: Matthew had seemingly vanished into thin air, and you said, 72 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:40,400 Speaker 1: that was it, okay, what happened? 73 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,679 Speaker 5: Then they thought, well, maybe it's just because he doesn't 74 00:04:43,720 --> 00:04:46,000 Speaker 5: have any service and he's just one of those people. 75 00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:48,159 Speaker 5: If he stops and he sees something, he's going to 76 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,000 Speaker 5: take the scenic rout. He's going to try to look 77 00:04:51,040 --> 00:04:53,360 Speaker 5: around see what he can find and things like that. 78 00:04:53,600 --> 00:04:56,320 Speaker 5: And so they gave it a few days. But after 79 00:04:56,400 --> 00:04:58,400 Speaker 5: that you start to get a little worried because at 80 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:01,599 Speaker 5: that point, this is the long anybody's gone without talking 81 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 5: to him ever. 82 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:07,560 Speaker 1: So got it. He moved on from Vegas and Saunders, Arizona. 83 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:13,600 Speaker 10: But we think that he was lost, maybe because that 84 00:05:13,640 --> 00:05:18,080 Speaker 10: he never made it into New Mexico, because there's no cameras, 85 00:05:18,520 --> 00:05:21,640 Speaker 10: no nothing saying that he even crossed the broad border 86 00:05:21,880 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 10: going into there, and from his Google searches, can you. 87 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:27,479 Speaker 1: Say no cameras, what do you mean. 88 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:33,800 Speaker 10: Like flock cameras or highway cameras. They checked a system 89 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:37,760 Speaker 10: called Vigilant, and they checked a system called flock. So 90 00:05:37,839 --> 00:05:43,080 Speaker 10: there's no nothing showing him after the fifth in any 91 00:05:43,080 --> 00:05:46,880 Speaker 10: other states in Arizona, and on his Google searches on 92 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,640 Speaker 10: the fifth, sixth, and seventh only show him in Arizona, 93 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:53,839 Speaker 10: never making it into New Mexico. 94 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 1: Okay, So when you said that he communicated he was 95 00:05:59,400 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: in the desert or it's of New Mexico. Yeh, then 96 00:06:02,440 --> 00:06:05,240 Speaker 1: he wasn't, that was what he said. 97 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 10: So maybe he thought like he was in like the 98 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:12,000 Speaker 10: desert of New Mexico, but he was actually in like 99 00:06:12,040 --> 00:06:16,239 Speaker 10: the desert of Arizona. Maybe his map was not because 100 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 10: he kept starting on Google where am I, and he 101 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 10: like he was lost basically. 102 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 1: Okay, So you mentioned Vigilant, that's by Motorola Solutions. It's 103 00:06:28,680 --> 00:06:33,440 Speaker 1: a license plate recognition and LPR system. Where did you 104 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: learn that LA law enforcement had used Vigilant? 105 00:06:39,440 --> 00:06:42,440 Speaker 10: By the detective, he told me it was about what 106 00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:45,599 Speaker 10: two weeks ago, Landy. I think he told me that 107 00:06:45,720 --> 00:06:46,440 Speaker 10: they looked into the. 108 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 4: Yeah, it was two weeks into the search. He had 109 00:06:50,160 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 4: taken a lot. 110 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: Randy, what do you know, Well, when. 111 00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,040 Speaker 5: We Las Vegas had to take it at first, they 112 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,240 Speaker 5: were because that was the last place that he was seeing, 113 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,320 Speaker 5: So Las Vegas had to take it for first. 114 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,599 Speaker 4: The detective you know, really didn't work fast. 115 00:07:03,640 --> 00:07:05,760 Speaker 5: But when he did finally let her know, he let 116 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,080 Speaker 5: her know, Hey, we looked at the cameras. He was 117 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:11,440 Speaker 5: caught going into Flagstaff, Arizona, so you have to turn 118 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:12,560 Speaker 5: it over to Flagstaff. 119 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 4: That was on the fifth of August. 120 00:07:15,960 --> 00:07:19,120 Speaker 1: Joining us now is Ronda de care. She is a 121 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:23,160 Speaker 1: founder of Missing an American network that is a nonprofit 122 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:29,440 Speaker 1: organization raising awareness, supporting families and missing people, and facilitating searches. 123 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:34,960 Speaker 1: And you can find them at Missing in americannetwork dot org. Ronda, 124 00:07:35,000 --> 00:07:37,680 Speaker 1: thanks so much for being with us. Do you hear 125 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:43,440 Speaker 1: what Randy is saying? That's Randy Green cousin and Kara 126 00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:50,800 Speaker 1: Spencer sister that there was a jurisdictional problem that when 127 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: Matthew left Vegas. The moment that it came up that 128 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,280 Speaker 1: he may have crossed over into Arizona, Vegas was like, well, 129 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: you'll have to call them, and I get it. Yeah, 130 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: they're trying to deal with their own missing people in 131 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: Vegas and in Nevada. I understand that, but it seems 132 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: like there's no communication between jurisdictions. And I've had that problem, Arise. 133 00:08:17,360 --> 00:08:20,400 Speaker 1: I can't even count the hundreds of times that that 134 00:08:20,440 --> 00:08:24,320 Speaker 1: has happened. Here's a good one. You know, Colorado doesn't 135 00:08:24,360 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: even know that Bundy's in Florida, Okay, until a murders 136 00:08:29,240 --> 00:08:32,160 Speaker 1: women in the Coyo House. Now that's a murder example, 137 00:08:32,320 --> 00:08:35,480 Speaker 1: but that's an example of jurisdictions having no idea left 138 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:40,120 Speaker 1: hand doesn't know what right hand is doing. Way in. Yeah, 139 00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,560 Speaker 1: we come across it just like you. Quite often. 140 00:08:43,200 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 7: They always say it has to be the last person, 141 00:08:45,520 --> 00:08:49,160 Speaker 7: the last place that somebody was, and that's the police 142 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,440 Speaker 7: department that needs to do the investigation. So anything that 143 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:56,000 Speaker 7: was done prior to them discovering that he was in Flagstaff, 144 00:08:56,840 --> 00:08:59,440 Speaker 7: really all they did was run the cameras, so all 145 00:08:59,480 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 7: of the other work has been done by flag stuff, 146 00:09:01,679 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 7: and they did pick it up and start investigating as 147 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:07,200 Speaker 7: much as they could after they found out he had 148 00:09:07,240 --> 00:09:08,400 Speaker 7: been seen in Flagstaff. 149 00:09:09,080 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, both jurisdictions, I fully believe, Emmon Short, you've got 150 00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:18,559 Speaker 1: the Nevada jurisdiction in the Arizona jurisdiction. I don't think 151 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:20,560 Speaker 1: that they're trying to push it off on each other. 152 00:09:20,920 --> 00:09:23,520 Speaker 1: But the reality is, Emmon, that's what happened. 153 00:09:24,360 --> 00:09:28,400 Speaker 6: Yes, there was a handoff from the Nevada police over 154 00:09:28,480 --> 00:09:32,360 Speaker 6: to the Flagstad police when he was payed through the 155 00:09:32,360 --> 00:09:36,960 Speaker 6: flat camera and of course finding you GPS coordinates. 156 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,880 Speaker 1: Okay, let me confirm, Randy Green. You're saying that we 157 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,679 Speaker 1: know he made it to Arizona because he turned up 158 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:47,319 Speaker 1: on the vigilant system correct. 159 00:09:47,760 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am, Yes, ma'am. 160 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:54,000 Speaker 1: Okay, which is a tag reader? Now? Who told you 161 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:58,880 Speaker 1: that his car turned up on the licensed plate reader? 162 00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,800 Speaker 1: The LPR? Who told you that in Arizona? 163 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:04,920 Speaker 5: That was the detective in Las Vegas, Nevada was the 164 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:05,720 Speaker 5: one that told her that. 165 00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:11,000 Speaker 1: Okay, where else, if anywhere? Guys, you're seeing his vehicle 166 00:10:11,040 --> 00:10:16,280 Speaker 1: and here's his tag see j M C California Jjoy 167 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:20,400 Speaker 1: M mother two two three five, repeat C JM two 168 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,960 Speaker 1: two three five. All you truckers out there, help me out. 169 00:10:24,440 --> 00:10:29,199 Speaker 1: This is what we're looking for. See JM two two 170 00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: three five. Kara, tell me describe the vehicle as you know, 171 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:36,240 Speaker 1: it did have any dents on it. Tell me about the. 172 00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,800 Speaker 8: Car, no dent or anything. 173 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:44,280 Speaker 10: It was. It's like a silver based hi Iyanda Tucson. 174 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:48,960 Speaker 10: There's like no really like nothing like distinguishing about. It 175 00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:50,080 Speaker 10: has Washington plate. 176 00:10:50,440 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: It looks silver. It looks silver to me, a silver 177 00:10:53,559 --> 00:11:02,040 Speaker 1: Tucson c JM two two three five. No dance, no wreckage, 178 00:11:02,840 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 1: nothing there. You go take a look, Randy Green, where 179 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:13,839 Speaker 1: do you believe he was spotted or his vehicle was 180 00:11:13,840 --> 00:11:17,319 Speaker 1: spotted or his tag was spotted within Arizona? What part 181 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: of Arizona? 182 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,360 Speaker 5: So they said he was going into Flagstaff, Arizona. That's 183 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 5: where they caught it. He was like, you know, the 184 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,640 Speaker 5: road he was traveling on. They caught him going into Flagstaff, Arizona. 185 00:11:30,679 --> 00:11:34,120 Speaker 5: And that was the last time that any camera had 186 00:11:34,160 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 5: caught him, anyone had seen him. 187 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:40,120 Speaker 1: That was it to Ronda de Care joining us, the 188 00:11:40,240 --> 00:11:44,200 Speaker 1: founder of Missing an American Network. And believe me, she's 189 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:47,439 Speaker 1: not in it for the money. It's a nonprofit. Ronda. 190 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:51,160 Speaker 1: We just heard the sister and cousin referring to an 191 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:54,839 Speaker 1: lp R. How do they work? What are they? 192 00:11:55,400 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 10: So? 193 00:11:55,840 --> 00:12:00,560 Speaker 7: They are license plate readers that law enforcement can to 194 00:12:00,600 --> 00:12:03,400 Speaker 7: look up and see when a license plate has traveled 195 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:06,240 Speaker 7: by a camera, and it's very useful when they're trying 196 00:12:06,280 --> 00:12:09,120 Speaker 7: to locate a missing person. And so in this case, 197 00:12:09,280 --> 00:12:12,079 Speaker 7: the only they did a search of his license plate 198 00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:14,560 Speaker 7: and the only place that it has turned out was 199 00:12:14,600 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 7: in Flagstaff, Arizona. 200 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,760 Speaker 1: You know what's interesting about the license plate readers to 201 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:25,360 Speaker 1: Sidney Summer, joining US crime stories, investigative reporter, individuals can 202 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: have them and people can be identified through the license 203 00:12:32,120 --> 00:12:36,120 Speaker 1: plate reader. Now, what you get from it is the 204 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:40,720 Speaker 1: car registered to the license plate. But then it's just 205 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:44,160 Speaker 1: a simple matter of comparing that to the DMV Department 206 00:12:44,160 --> 00:12:48,199 Speaker 1: of Motor Vehicles and finding out who owns it. Also, 207 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:53,240 Speaker 1: in addition to LPRs license plate readers, there are LPR 208 00:12:53,520 --> 00:12:58,320 Speaker 1: cameras that help record when the car goes by, and 209 00:12:58,679 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: they're their technology is not hard to understand. Lice's plate 210 00:13:04,360 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: readers work by using high speed cameras and they capture 211 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:12,199 Speaker 1: images of licensed plates. Then they employ optical character recognition 212 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: or OCR to convert the plate images in to text. 213 00:13:18,040 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 1: They're very common, Sydney Sumner. 214 00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 8: Absolutely, they're all over the country. This is one of 215 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,920 Speaker 8: the best ways. We have to track someone who is 216 00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,000 Speaker 8: in a car, and we should be able to tell 217 00:13:30,360 --> 00:13:34,560 Speaker 8: if a plate has been removed and placed on another vehicle. 218 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:37,079 Speaker 9: So you should be able to check. 219 00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:41,199 Speaker 8: Registry records and find if that plate does pop up, 220 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:44,360 Speaker 8: it should be on Matthew Spencer's two thousand and six 221 00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 8: on day Tucson. 222 00:13:45,640 --> 00:13:47,800 Speaker 9: But from that image. 223 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:49,920 Speaker 8: You can clearly tell whether or not that car is 224 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 8: a Tucson. 225 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 9: So if the plate has been. 226 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,200 Speaker 8: Removed and put on another car, we should be able 227 00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,080 Speaker 8: to find that out as well. 228 00:13:57,320 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: Sidney, You're right. They text data that you get from 229 00:14:01,040 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: the optical. The high speed camera image is compared against databases. 230 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,600 Speaker 1: It's looking for stolen or wanted vehicles. When a match 231 00:14:09,720 --> 00:14:13,600 Speaker 1: is found, the system alerts. Now you would never know 232 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 1: you're passing one. Because the ALPRs are usually mounted on 233 00:14:18,080 --> 00:14:21,680 Speaker 1: objects like road signs, they can be on police vehicles. 234 00:14:21,760 --> 00:14:24,920 Speaker 1: They operate day and night, in the daylight and the 235 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:29,200 Speaker 1: night time. They work no matter what the temperature, what 236 00:14:29,400 --> 00:14:34,560 Speaker 1: the visibility doesn't matter, and they capture those plates and 237 00:14:35,160 --> 00:14:39,080 Speaker 1: important they get the location, the date, and the time 238 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:44,280 Speaker 1: of the skin. So that is going to be invaluable 239 00:14:44,560 --> 00:14:48,240 Speaker 1: what we know right now. Straight back out to the family. 240 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:53,320 Speaker 1: I'm very curious, Kira, what about in and around the 241 00:14:53,400 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 1: town of Flagstaff as you follow that same route. Wouldn't 242 00:15:00,440 --> 00:15:06,600 Speaker 1: there be red light cams, business cams. Wouldn't there be 243 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:08,120 Speaker 1: something that would pick him up. 244 00:15:08,680 --> 00:15:12,200 Speaker 5: That's what I thought, And then to have him going in, 245 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:14,920 Speaker 5: But then when we got the Google account for him 246 00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:16,040 Speaker 5: to be going back. 247 00:15:15,880 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 4: Out, they don't have anything. 248 00:15:17,840 --> 00:15:20,360 Speaker 5: So he would have had to go into flag Staff 249 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 5: and then come back out of Flagstaff to end up 250 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:26,960 Speaker 5: in Williams. So how how they didn't get him anywhere else? 251 00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:27,120 Speaker 1: Did? 252 00:15:27,760 --> 00:15:30,960 Speaker 5: It just doesn't sit right. But I mean, I think 253 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,320 Speaker 5: at one point the detective did say that sometimes they 254 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 5: can't catch all vehicles, and maybe they called him going 255 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,240 Speaker 5: in they just didn't catch him going the other way. 256 00:15:39,680 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: But I mean, it wouldn't just be license plate grabbers. 257 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:46,640 Speaker 1: It would be business sides, it would be red light cams, 258 00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:51,440 Speaker 1: it would be all sorts of security cam capability, not 259 00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:55,840 Speaker 1: just the one license plate grabber. Now joining me is 260 00:15:56,240 --> 00:16:01,400 Speaker 1: Matthew Mangino, a veteran trial attorney, former Attorney of Lawrence County, 261 00:16:01,440 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: and author of the Executioner's Tool, Crimes, Arrests, Trials Appeals, 262 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:09,920 Speaker 1: last meals, final words and executions of forty six people 263 00:16:09,960 --> 00:16:12,800 Speaker 1: in the US. Matt man Gino, thank you for being 264 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:18,640 Speaker 1: with us. I cannot impress upon anyone the power of 265 00:16:18,680 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 1: the cam. I'm talking about red light cams, security cams, 266 00:16:24,920 --> 00:16:31,760 Speaker 1: doorbell cams, home video, business video, even and I will 267 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:35,480 Speaker 1: direct you to the case of missing Connecticut mom of 268 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:41,440 Speaker 1: five Jennifer Dolos. Her husband Photos Delos, murdered her and 269 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,520 Speaker 1: then his mistress helped get rid of evidence caught on camera. 270 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: They were spotted on camera throwing away her bloody bra 271 00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: her bloody clothing, rags, towels soaked in her blood. It 272 00:16:55,440 --> 00:16:59,200 Speaker 1: was all you know, found in drains all around town 273 00:17:00,040 --> 00:17:05,760 Speaker 1: to trash out a multiple spots that said. They then 274 00:17:05,880 --> 00:17:11,800 Speaker 1: the Connecticut Police Department. It was pretty amazing. Matthew Manjin 275 00:17:11,840 --> 00:17:14,160 Speaker 1: and I'm sure you would freak if they was done 276 00:17:14,200 --> 00:17:18,720 Speaker 1: one of your clients. They cobbled together a video montage 277 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:25,040 Speaker 1: showing the husband photos Dulos going along in a borrowed car. 278 00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:29,399 Speaker 1: Jennifer's DNA and hairstrand was found in the back. He 279 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:33,240 Speaker 1: later replaced the back seat of the borrowed car. That's 280 00:17:33,359 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: not unusual, right, and they get him traveling to and 281 00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,840 Speaker 1: they're using doorbell cams, they're using red light cams, they're 282 00:17:41,880 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: using surveillance cams from businesses all along going to get 283 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,800 Speaker 1: the car detailed and cleaned out. He couldn't destroy the 284 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,280 Speaker 1: car because he had borrowed the car to pen the 285 00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: crime on somebody else. Long story short, they even have 286 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:58,880 Speaker 1: a public bus and when the door. 287 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,080 Speaker 11: Opens to let people on an off, you see photos 288 00:18:01,080 --> 00:18:04,840 Speaker 11: and photos. You see photos Doulos drive by very quickly. 289 00:18:04,960 --> 00:18:09,520 Speaker 11: I mean they had his route from a to ze 290 00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:12,719 Speaker 11: soup to nuts straight out in the ynang On video. 291 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,720 Speaker 1: It was amazing. So what type of cameras would you 292 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:19,240 Speaker 1: be looking for in this case? Man Gino? 293 00:18:21,119 --> 00:18:24,639 Speaker 2: Well, you're right, Nancy, that was extraordinary police work in 294 00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:29,160 Speaker 2: that case. But I think in this situation investigators may 295 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 2: be a disadvantage because this appears to be a two lane. 296 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: Maybe more rural road at times. 297 00:18:38,160 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 2: We know that they were able to get a plate 298 00:18:40,840 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 2: scan when he went into Flagstaff, but you know, if 299 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,120 Speaker 2: you look at some of the video that we've seen, 300 00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:51,320 Speaker 2: this isn't a place where there's video cameras on every 301 00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:56,240 Speaker 2: corner or every intersection, or traffic lights or even businesses 302 00:18:56,320 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 2: that have cameras so that's a bit of a disadvantage. 303 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:01,760 Speaker 2: You know, I would like to know more about this 304 00:19:02,119 --> 00:19:06,000 Speaker 2: is you know, why was there uh you know this 305 00:19:06,200 --> 00:19:09,120 Speaker 2: idea that number one, he thought he was in New 306 00:19:09,160 --> 00:19:13,080 Speaker 2: Mexico and then he may have been turned around. Is 307 00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 2: there is there any issues with regard to to his 308 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:19,640 Speaker 2: health potentially, And also we have the idea that this 309 00:19:19,720 --> 00:19:23,919 Speaker 2: car had broken down. Where is it? I mean, you know, 310 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:28,639 Speaker 2: typically you know, you know, someone is is kidnapped or 311 00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:31,440 Speaker 2: taken from a vehicle, They're not going to come back 312 00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:33,800 Speaker 2: and get the vehicle. You know, was there was the 313 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:38,240 Speaker 2: vehicle toad. There's a lot of unanswered questions here based 314 00:19:38,280 --> 00:19:39,800 Speaker 2: on what we know at this point. 315 00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,639 Speaker 1: Then we have Google searches. 316 00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,280 Speaker 5: So Kara had gotten into his Google account. She had 317 00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:49,640 Speaker 5: gotten into his Google account. She gave it to their 318 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:53,119 Speaker 5: older brother and they worked together and they were able 319 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,080 Speaker 5: to get a location of a timeline, if you will. 320 00:19:56,520 --> 00:19:59,440 Speaker 5: And so it was from what they did was from 321 00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,640 Speaker 5: the fifth until the seventh. On the seventh, everything stops. 322 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:05,960 Speaker 5: And that was the screen graps that we had given 323 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,159 Speaker 5: you all. It shows like why was my car not 324 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:09,880 Speaker 5: turning over? 325 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:10,639 Speaker 4: Where am I? 326 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 5: Things like that, and it was showing that he was 327 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:16,040 Speaker 5: in between Williams and Belmont, which is a little bit 328 00:20:16,720 --> 00:20:19,520 Speaker 5: back from from Flagstaff, so it was going back the 329 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:20,440 Speaker 5: other way. 330 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:21,960 Speaker 4: From Flagstaff. 331 00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:34,960 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace to doctor John Delatory joining us. 332 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,440 Speaker 1: He is a renowned psychologist and mediator and he specializes 333 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:45,280 Speaker 1: in forensic psychology. He's at resolution fcs dot com, Doctor Delatory. 334 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:49,719 Speaker 1: This is excruciating for the family. They're like stabbing in 335 00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 1: the dark trying to if you ever woke out in 336 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,000 Speaker 1: the middle of the night and your eyes haven't adjusted 337 00:20:54,080 --> 00:20:55,680 Speaker 1: and you kind of think you know where you are 338 00:20:55,720 --> 00:20:59,680 Speaker 1: and you're just walking feeling trying to see they only 339 00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:03,120 Speaker 1: have tidbits. They've got this Google search where he's searching 340 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:06,439 Speaker 1: things like where am I, why is my car not 341 00:21:06,560 --> 00:21:10,400 Speaker 1: turning over? There's a whole other aspect of are these 342 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 1: searches real or are they fake? Searches like the one 343 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 1: we saw in the case of Gabby Patito where someone 344 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:24,960 Speaker 1: well we know who her fiance was, Brian Laundry, faking 345 00:21:26,119 --> 00:21:30,639 Speaker 1: texts from her to suggest she's still alive. We've seen 346 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: it even in the Rex Huerman Long Island serial killer 347 00:21:33,880 --> 00:21:40,719 Speaker 1: suspect calling the victims' families from the victim's phones, suggesting 348 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 1: they're still alive. It's horrible, but we don't know these 349 00:21:44,040 --> 00:21:47,360 Speaker 1: texts are really from or these searches really are Matthew. 350 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:50,159 Speaker 1: But I see no reason to think that they're not. 351 00:21:50,880 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: That said, the family is just, you know, feeling their 352 00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 1: way in the dark. That is horrible for them. They 353 00:21:57,200 --> 00:21:58,280 Speaker 1: don't have all the pieces. 354 00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,359 Speaker 3: And listen, you know, I used to live in Arizona 355 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 3: for seven years. I have family in New Mexico. I 356 00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:08,040 Speaker 3: know this route. I don't know why this is the 357 00:22:08,119 --> 00:22:09,840 Speaker 3: route he's taken to go to Houston, but I know 358 00:22:09,960 --> 00:22:13,359 Speaker 3: this route, and there's nothing there there. There are long 359 00:22:13,400 --> 00:22:18,600 Speaker 3: stretches where there is absolutely nothing there, and if you're 360 00:22:18,600 --> 00:22:21,040 Speaker 3: not familiar with the area, it is very easy to 361 00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:24,080 Speaker 3: get lost. And there are some reservations there that you're 362 00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,200 Speaker 3: maybe not allowed to enter into. So there's so much 363 00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:31,280 Speaker 3: that is going on that may have kind of confused 364 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 3: Matthew and may have put him in a position where 365 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:36,480 Speaker 3: he was making decisions that he didn't have to think 366 00:22:36,520 --> 00:22:39,600 Speaker 3: to make. And so now his family members are struggling 367 00:22:39,680 --> 00:22:42,280 Speaker 3: to try to find him when he's probably in a 368 00:22:42,320 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 3: panic mode himself, trying to figure out, how do I 369 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:46,840 Speaker 3: get to the next place that I'm supposed. 370 00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:47,000 Speaker 1: To be going. 371 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 3: Maybe it's been too long, that I should have been 372 00:22:49,640 --> 00:22:52,680 Speaker 3: someplace else already, and that this isn't working, This route 373 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,400 Speaker 3: isn't working. There's so much that is happening, and trying 374 00:22:56,440 --> 00:23:00,160 Speaker 3: to follow in those kinds of footsteps can be excruciatingly 375 00:23:00,280 --> 00:23:04,199 Speaker 3: painful and saddening because you don't know why someone is 376 00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:08,320 Speaker 3: making the decisions that the data that we have is 377 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:08,880 Speaker 3: leading you. 378 00:23:08,840 --> 00:23:12,360 Speaker 1: Towards well Delatoria. You just says something I find very 379 00:23:12,440 --> 00:23:16,560 Speaker 1: very primitive because to Ronda to care joining us from 380 00:23:16,600 --> 00:23:21,800 Speaker 1: Missing in America network along with Evan short Ronda we 381 00:23:22,720 --> 00:23:25,919 Speaker 1: it sounds like, oh, he was confused. I don't think 382 00:23:25,960 --> 00:23:28,760 Speaker 1: he was confused. He was out in the middle of 383 00:23:28,840 --> 00:23:33,560 Speaker 1: nowhere without signs. I mean, if I were to cross 384 00:23:33,600 --> 00:23:38,600 Speaker 1: from Georgia to Tennessee all the way up to New York, 385 00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,200 Speaker 1: which I have taken the job many many times, unless 386 00:23:42,240 --> 00:23:44,919 Speaker 1: you see a road sign, you may think you're still 387 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,399 Speaker 1: in Georgia and not realize you're in Tennessee, or on 388 00:23:48,720 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 1: and on. You may be in New York and not 389 00:23:52,320 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 1: realize you've crossed into New Jersey yet unless you are 390 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,520 Speaker 1: reading the signs, so if he's in the middle of 391 00:23:57,520 --> 00:24:00,280 Speaker 1: the desert, like DELATORI just said, they're a lot of 392 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:03,679 Speaker 1: Indian reservations. They are Indian land you can't get into. 393 00:24:04,359 --> 00:24:06,840 Speaker 1: I don't think he's confused. He's just driving, he's just 394 00:24:06,920 --> 00:24:09,600 Speaker 1: making his way. I don't like it when people make 395 00:24:09,640 --> 00:24:12,639 Speaker 1: it sound like he's confused, like he was high on 396 00:24:12,720 --> 00:24:17,879 Speaker 1: drugs or drinking. There's no evidence of that at all. Yeah, 397 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 1: that's absolutely true. 398 00:24:19,320 --> 00:24:21,640 Speaker 7: There may be some confusion as to why he said 399 00:24:21,680 --> 00:24:23,880 Speaker 7: he was in New Mexico when he wasn't. I mean, 400 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:27,680 Speaker 7: one of the thought processes is that he just didn't 401 00:24:27,680 --> 00:24:29,160 Speaker 7: want his family to worry about him. 402 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 1: But those Google. 403 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,720 Speaker 7: Searches do go on to show he was searching a 404 00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,439 Speaker 7: lot about the lake areas. He was of fishermen and 405 00:24:35,480 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 7: he loved fish, and so there was Google searches where 406 00:24:38,960 --> 00:24:42,359 Speaker 7: he was researching the lakes right in that area near 407 00:24:42,400 --> 00:24:45,959 Speaker 7: Williams in Parker, Arizona. And so one of the theories, one 408 00:24:46,000 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 7: of the things that we have been trying to explore, 409 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,359 Speaker 7: is if he went looking at those lakes, and so 410 00:24:51,400 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 7: that's where Evan and the team have been searching is 411 00:24:53,640 --> 00:24:54,960 Speaker 7: around those lake areas. 412 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,159 Speaker 1: Randy Ronda is right. He was a nature enthusiast. He 413 00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:02,640 Speaker 1: loved high key, he loved new places, he loved fishing. 414 00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:05,879 Speaker 1: So if you see maybe a back and forth in 415 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:10,040 Speaker 1: his route or a secuitous route, that's not unusual for him, right, 416 00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:11,760 Speaker 1: that was just it. 417 00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:15,320 Speaker 5: It was like he was making kind of a circle. 418 00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:17,760 Speaker 5: I guess you would say he was looking for like 419 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:20,679 Speaker 5: fishing places and things like that. That's what we just 420 00:25:20,760 --> 00:25:23,720 Speaker 5: found out because someone else had gotten to his Google account, 421 00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:26,119 Speaker 5: they were able to see, you know, a little bit 422 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:27,919 Speaker 5: more in depth where he was going. 423 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 4: But yeah, he just stayed pretty much in that same set. 424 00:25:31,600 --> 00:25:35,640 Speaker 1: I don't even say Belmont on this map. So you're 425 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:37,879 Speaker 1: saying he gets from Flagstaff. 426 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,400 Speaker 4: Towards it's in between Williams and Flagstaff. 427 00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:44,240 Speaker 1: Gotcha, Flagstaff to Williams and then will which is thirty 428 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: seven minutes, and then from Williams to Belmont is about 429 00:25:49,320 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: twenty three minutes back towards flag Staff. So why do 430 00:25:54,520 --> 00:25:59,119 Speaker 1: you believe he was last in Belmont? So we've talked 431 00:25:59,119 --> 00:25:59,440 Speaker 1: a lot. 432 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 5: We I mean, me and Kara talk every day, and 433 00:26:02,080 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 5: we've tried to obviously come to our own conclusions and 434 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 5: from what we have gathered ourselves and obviously from the 435 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,639 Speaker 5: help of others that have been looking with us as well, 436 00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 5: we think that maybe he. 437 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:17,080 Speaker 4: Started having car troubles of some problem. 438 00:26:17,119 --> 00:26:20,280 Speaker 5: He didn't want to worry anybody, so he just kind 439 00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:24,840 Speaker 5: of turn turned back the other way, maybe going back 440 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 5: to his sister's house, trying to make it back that way. 441 00:26:27,520 --> 00:26:28,200 Speaker 4: He stopped. 442 00:26:28,240 --> 00:26:31,679 Speaker 5: He was looking around, just kind of trying, wait a minute, 443 00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,119 Speaker 5: did you know that in Belmont? 444 00:26:34,560 --> 00:26:37,760 Speaker 1: I was checking this out? In Belmont, they have a 445 00:26:37,800 --> 00:26:41,040 Speaker 1: lot of I mean, if there's anything famous there that 446 00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 1: Patrouce would stop to look at, I would think. You know, 447 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:48,640 Speaker 1: they've got those natural springs in Belmont. You said something 448 00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 1: about payl like to go fishing, and Belmont has local 449 00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,280 Speaker 1: springs that a lot of people go to look at. 450 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 4: Yes, two of those. 451 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:05,119 Speaker 5: One was dog Dogtown Lake and then the reservoir, and 452 00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:09,280 Speaker 5: then the other was Shoals I think it's pronounced Shoals Lake. 453 00:27:09,440 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 5: So they know for a fact that he was looking 454 00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,040 Speaker 5: at those ones because it was also on his Google 455 00:27:14,119 --> 00:27:16,240 Speaker 5: a timeline, so he was. 456 00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 4: I think he probably stopped he was having car. 457 00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:21,119 Speaker 5: Trouble, He didn't want to worry anybody, so he just 458 00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:24,199 Speaker 5: thought he would get out look around explore a little bit. 459 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,000 Speaker 4: That's just was kind of his nature. 460 00:27:26,520 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 5: So you know, he was looking around, checking things out, 461 00:27:30,119 --> 00:27:32,480 Speaker 5: maybe would stop to fishially figured out what he was 462 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:36,119 Speaker 5: going to do, and then everything just kind of stops 463 00:27:36,160 --> 00:27:36,560 Speaker 5: from there. 464 00:27:37,119 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: Well, what about those two lakes you mentioned, Shoal Lake 465 00:27:40,240 --> 00:27:46,760 Speaker 1: and one other were they explored. Is there a place 466 00:27:46,800 --> 00:27:50,040 Speaker 1: that he would have parked to go fishing anything like that. 467 00:27:51,600 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 5: We're not sure he was able to get a timeline 468 00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,399 Speaker 5: like he's he's doing way more into it than we could. 469 00:27:58,280 --> 00:28:01,360 Speaker 5: He's the one that got know these locations that he's 470 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:03,960 Speaker 5: been going to and he flies a drone around, you know, 471 00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:07,480 Speaker 5: as much as he can, and he's been looking into 472 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 5: those the lake he just did, the Dogtown Lake he 473 00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 5: just did that one, and then next he'll be moving on. 474 00:28:12,840 --> 00:28:13,680 Speaker 4: To Shoals Lake. 475 00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:15,800 Speaker 5: We just did a thing where we were asking for 476 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:19,720 Speaker 5: volunteers to go out and help because it's so vast that. 477 00:28:19,800 --> 00:28:21,639 Speaker 4: You know, it's it's going to take him a little 478 00:28:21,640 --> 00:28:23,360 Speaker 4: while to cover it all. 479 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,000 Speaker 1: Evan Short, that person doing all the searching would be 480 00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:31,399 Speaker 1: you tell me about the use of drones and what 481 00:28:31,480 --> 00:28:33,080 Speaker 1: you know about these two lakes. 482 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:38,440 Speaker 6: Yes, we based off of the GPS location of the searches. 483 00:28:38,760 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 6: Fortunately he was saying, you know, directions to Dogtown Lake 484 00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 6: had showed the directions of his location. We were able 485 00:28:46,160 --> 00:28:48,880 Speaker 6: to visit each of the locations he did these searches 486 00:28:48,960 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 6: for and do extensive drone searches with the limited equipment 487 00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 6: that we have do to budget, but we were able 488 00:28:57,440 --> 00:28:59,840 Speaker 6: to go to each of those locations on the fifth 489 00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:05,320 Speaker 6: and also in the six around Dogtown Lake and Schultzlake, 490 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:08,840 Speaker 6: we were able to eliminate a lot of the areas 491 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,840 Speaker 6: of where he was at. Unfortunately we weren't able to 492 00:29:11,920 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 6: locate the vehicle. And then on the sixth we would 493 00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 6: visited the location. It was about four miles east of 494 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:27,440 Speaker 6: Schultzlake where the last GPS location, which was the the 495 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:31,520 Speaker 6: afternoon of the sixth, and we did a grid search 496 00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:32,680 Speaker 6: of that area as well. 497 00:29:33,280 --> 00:29:37,120 Speaker 1: Wow. Wow, when you're using a drone evan, what are 498 00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:37,680 Speaker 1: you looking for? 499 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:44,480 Speaker 6: Well, there's different type of searches for different type of methods, 500 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,560 Speaker 6: for different type of searches. For this one, it's kind 501 00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 6: of like a high pass grid, you know, point down 502 00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:53,600 Speaker 6: the cameras and see if we can locate a vehicle. 503 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,120 Speaker 6: That's the big object that we're looking for right now. 504 00:29:56,240 --> 00:29:56,720 Speaker 8: So if we can. 505 00:29:56,720 --> 00:29:59,040 Speaker 6: Locate the vehicle, that would provide us a more es 506 00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,640 Speaker 6: centralized location for additional on foot surgeon. 507 00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:04,440 Speaker 1: I know we've mentioned this was quote out in the 508 00:30:04,480 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: middle of nowhere, but actually, isn't this a long route 509 00:30:07,560 --> 00:30:09,440 Speaker 1: sixty six where everybody travels? 510 00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:10,400 Speaker 4: Yes, ma'am. 511 00:30:10,880 --> 00:30:14,440 Speaker 1: You know another thing, speaking of Belmont, you know the 512 00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:20,200 Speaker 1: population there is very low, around one thousand people. So 513 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,160 Speaker 1: when we're talking about a town and saying, wow, nobody 514 00:30:23,240 --> 00:30:25,960 Speaker 1: saw him, because it's a little community like where I 515 00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 1: grew up, it's very possible nobody saw him if he 516 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:29,040 Speaker 1: was there. 517 00:30:31,080 --> 00:30:32,840 Speaker 4: That I had actually talked to. 518 00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,000 Speaker 5: So in the first couple of weeks, Kara and I 519 00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:38,720 Speaker 5: had called I mean, anybody that you can think of. 520 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:40,280 Speaker 4: We hopped on TikTok Live. 521 00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:44,600 Speaker 5: We got every single route that he could have taken, 522 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:48,000 Speaker 5: and we deduced it to three routes that. 523 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:49,640 Speaker 4: He could have taken to get where he was. 524 00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:54,880 Speaker 5: We took every single city and went googled hospitals, tow 525 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 5: truck companies, gas stations, anybody that would hear us. So 526 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:01,560 Speaker 5: we called them all and just this last week I 527 00:31:01,760 --> 00:31:04,719 Speaker 5: called the tow truck company again, just in case there 528 00:31:04,840 --> 00:31:06,960 Speaker 5: was some kind of you know that maybe they found something. 529 00:31:07,320 --> 00:31:10,680 Speaker 5: And the lady explained to me that, you know, she well, 530 00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,280 Speaker 5: she wanted me to send her a flyer and she said, listen, 531 00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:16,520 Speaker 5: this is a very small place. She's like, it's it's 532 00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 5: a lot of land, but everybody knows everything. She's like, 533 00:31:20,440 --> 00:31:22,280 Speaker 5: so I'm going to send this out to all my guys. 534 00:31:22,640 --> 00:31:25,240 Speaker 5: But you know, if anybody is going to see anything, 535 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 5: it's them. 536 00:31:25,800 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 4: They are tow truck drivers. They have to go, you know, everywhere. 537 00:31:29,560 --> 00:31:32,280 Speaker 4: And she kind of was saying the same thing. 538 00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,920 Speaker 5: She just didn't understand how the whole car was gone 539 00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:36,400 Speaker 5: and nobody's seen anything. 540 00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:43,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's another issue. To Matthew's sister, Kara Spencer. It's 541 00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,040 Speaker 1: not just that Hayes disappeared. His car has disappeared too. 542 00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:48,280 Speaker 1: How does that happen? 543 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:55,680 Speaker 10: I'm not sure. I think maybe he parked it somewhere 544 00:31:55,760 --> 00:31:59,160 Speaker 10: at a gas station or a grocery store, and maybe 545 00:32:00,120 --> 00:32:03,280 Speaker 10: somewhere just nobody can see it and nobody just noticed it. 546 00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:07,800 Speaker 10: There's a lot of different possibilities that's been running through 547 00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:12,440 Speaker 10: my mind. Maybe somebody stole it and took the license 548 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 10: place off of it. There's a lot of possibilities. 549 00:32:19,160 --> 00:32:23,680 Speaker 1: Evan it's short actually searching for Matthew. You were saying 550 00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,000 Speaker 1: that very thing, that it's going to be easier for 551 00:32:26,080 --> 00:32:30,520 Speaker 1: you to spot a car versus a person. So is 552 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: that what you're honing in on when you're using your drone? 553 00:32:33,520 --> 00:32:36,040 Speaker 1: And how are you conducting this search? That's pretty rough 554 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:37,520 Speaker 1: terrain in some areas. 555 00:32:40,080 --> 00:32:43,400 Speaker 6: Well, We've got some unfortunately, we have some experience in 556 00:32:43,480 --> 00:32:49,120 Speaker 6: this type of searching, so we have equipment vehicles. 557 00:32:48,720 --> 00:32:49,600 Speaker 9: That can. 558 00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:56,440 Speaker 6: Drive out in these remote locations. The searching for the 559 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,240 Speaker 6: drone easy. You can see, it's like a high pass 560 00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:04,920 Speaker 6: search over through some of the areas. We've actually been 561 00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:08,680 Speaker 6: able to identify other vehicles that were similar to Matthews, 562 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,720 Speaker 6: but upon this section it was just like the same 563 00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 6: make a model, just a different year. Unfortunately, so we 564 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,959 Speaker 6: be able to locate from a high pass the vehicle 565 00:33:20,680 --> 00:33:24,160 Speaker 6: and that's really what we're hoping to locate is see 566 00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 6: what the vehicle is so we can then conduct additional 567 00:33:29,160 --> 00:33:32,080 Speaker 6: more focus searching in that area. 568 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,840 Speaker 1: Guys, we were showing you the actual drone footage Evan 569 00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: Shore you and wanted to care from missing an American 570 00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 1: Network are amazing. First of all, your volunteers, you're not 571 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:46,120 Speaker 1: getting paid for this. You're seeing the drone footage that 572 00:33:46,280 --> 00:33:51,240 Speaker 1: Evan records and then scours through it looking at it 573 00:33:51,320 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: with a fine tooth comb to see if he can 574 00:33:53,240 --> 00:33:59,080 Speaker 1: spot a person or the vehicle. This is extremely detailed. 575 00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:05,040 Speaker 1: It's amazing. Back to the family, Has he ever disappeared 576 00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:08,120 Speaker 1: like this, gone for this many days without speaking to you? 577 00:34:09,480 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 10: No? Never, And his last message was how was your 578 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 10: dinner and how was your night? And the next day's 579 00:34:15,360 --> 00:34:18,080 Speaker 10: phone was just off. That's never happened. 580 00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:22,840 Speaker 1: Just thinking through everything that you're saying. Would he be 581 00:34:23,440 --> 00:34:26,920 Speaker 1: wary if someone came up and offered to help him. 582 00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,560 Speaker 10: No, He's had help before when he's ran out of 583 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,520 Speaker 10: gas or car broke down before when he was driving, 584 00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 10: people would stop and help him. He want to put 585 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:41,480 Speaker 10: a guard up, you know. 586 00:34:42,560 --> 00:34:45,760 Speaker 1: But what's interesting and curious is it's not just him missing. 587 00:34:46,040 --> 00:34:51,480 Speaker 1: The car's gone too. Just like vanished Sidney Sumner Crime Stories, 588 00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,320 Speaker 1: investigative reporter. This guy loved nature, He loved hiking, he 589 00:34:56,480 --> 00:35:00,800 Speaker 1: loved fishing, he loved exploring. In fact, he this trip 590 00:35:01,160 --> 00:35:04,520 Speaker 1: from Vegas to his new home in Texas and was 591 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:09,240 Speaker 1: stopping at intervals. The family knew that to sightsee, to fish, 592 00:35:09,360 --> 00:35:13,080 Speaker 1: to look around. He was an adventurer, hard worker, but 593 00:35:13,320 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 1: he loved his fishing. 594 00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:15,920 Speaker 4: Right, So. 595 00:35:18,680 --> 00:35:21,719 Speaker 1: I'm just trying to figure out did he meet somebody 596 00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:27,960 Speaker 1: while he was fishing, while he was taking photos? Has 597 00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 1: he uploaded any of those photos that could tell me anything? 598 00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:36,840 Speaker 1: Remember in the Delphi case where Liberty and Abby actually 599 00:35:36,920 --> 00:35:41,920 Speaker 1: took a photo of the killer, right, do we know 600 00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: Sydney And what can you tell me about his love 601 00:35:44,760 --> 00:35:47,360 Speaker 1: of fishing and exploring? I mean he factored that into 602 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:48,000 Speaker 1: his trip. 603 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:53,400 Speaker 8: Yes, well, his family believes that Matthew may have been 604 00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:56,439 Speaker 8: having some car trouble, may have run into some kind 605 00:35:56,480 --> 00:35:57,600 Speaker 8: of road bump. 606 00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,920 Speaker 12: Instead of panicking and worrying anyone, he just took some 607 00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:06,000 Speaker 12: time to maybe explore the area around him, spend some 608 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:09,600 Speaker 12: time fishing, get his mind together. 609 00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:11,720 Speaker 9: Before he made a plan on what to do next. 610 00:36:12,280 --> 00:36:14,560 Speaker 9: So we know that Matthew loved to fish. 611 00:36:14,680 --> 00:36:18,520 Speaker 8: There's plenty of photos of him holding absolute whoppers. So 612 00:36:18,840 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 8: this feels like typical behavior. Let me take a step back, relax, 613 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,560 Speaker 8: and then we'll get ourselves back together and get back 614 00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:26,200 Speaker 8: on the road. 615 00:36:26,760 --> 00:36:30,320 Speaker 9: We do know that Matthew was taking photos on his phone. 616 00:36:30,520 --> 00:36:34,160 Speaker 9: He wasn't posting anything to social media or anything like that. 617 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:35,200 Speaker 10: But he was. 618 00:36:35,320 --> 00:36:39,800 Speaker 8: Scrolling through social media like Instagram and TikTok, just normal 619 00:36:39,920 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 8: behaviors for Matthew. According to Kara. 620 00:36:42,640 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 10: And Randy. 621 00:36:48,920 --> 00:36:56,400 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace two doctor John Dellatore joining 622 00:36:56,560 --> 00:37:02,560 Speaker 1: US licensed psychologist specializing in forensic psychology, Doctor Delatory, this 623 00:37:02,840 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: guy was used to traveling, exploring, fishing, camping. He was 624 00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:12,200 Speaker 1: not wary of someone approaching him offering to help him 625 00:37:12,239 --> 00:37:14,920 Speaker 1: if his car had broken down. He did those Google 626 00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,360 Speaker 1: searches why won't my car turn over? Why is it 627 00:37:18,480 --> 00:37:22,040 Speaker 1: making a clicking sound? If those were truly his searches, 628 00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:25,880 Speaker 1: he would not have been he would not have had 629 00:37:25,880 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 1: his tackles up at all. 630 00:37:29,680 --> 00:37:32,719 Speaker 3: And unfortunately, there are some individuals who will take advantage 631 00:37:32,760 --> 00:37:36,000 Speaker 3: of someone like that, right, you know, even though this 632 00:37:36,239 --> 00:37:39,080 Speaker 3: is kind of a sparsely populated area of the state, 633 00:37:39,160 --> 00:37:41,480 Speaker 3: there are so many people that go through you never 634 00:37:41,680 --> 00:37:43,880 Speaker 3: know who you're going to run into, and so it 635 00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:48,359 Speaker 3: is certainly possible that's something maybe nefarious happened. I don't 636 00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:52,480 Speaker 3: think though, that Matthew would have been kind of triggered 637 00:37:52,560 --> 00:37:56,080 Speaker 3: to be worried about something like that. I think, you know, 638 00:37:56,160 --> 00:37:58,719 Speaker 3: it seems like this is his calm space to go 639 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,960 Speaker 3: fishing and to be out nature. It seems like this 640 00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,759 Speaker 3: is a space that he's kind of comfortable in, but 641 00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:07,360 Speaker 3: that comfortability can also make you more vulnerable. 642 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:08,000 Speaker 10: You know. 643 00:38:08,120 --> 00:38:12,160 Speaker 1: I'm also curious, Randy about the Google searches. Tell me 644 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:15,480 Speaker 1: about the searches and where you believe he was when 645 00:38:15,640 --> 00:38:17,520 Speaker 1: he was conducting the searches. 646 00:38:18,760 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 5: Evan has been able to go in a little bit 647 00:38:21,080 --> 00:38:26,680 Speaker 5: more extensively, like he can see the actual coordinates of 648 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:30,279 Speaker 5: these searches, and you know, it was just that's what 649 00:38:30,360 --> 00:38:33,840 Speaker 5: I'm saying. It's right around the same area. But the 650 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,200 Speaker 5: thing that we don't understand that we just figured out 651 00:38:36,320 --> 00:38:38,440 Speaker 5: is that it was for it was from the fifth 652 00:38:39,000 --> 00:38:42,080 Speaker 5: until the seventh, so he was in that same area. 653 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:46,360 Speaker 5: So I just don't I don't understand. 654 00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:47,160 Speaker 4: He even said that he. 655 00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:50,920 Speaker 5: Was googling different things like parts for a cat, like 656 00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:52,560 Speaker 5: a like an excavator. 657 00:38:52,880 --> 00:38:56,200 Speaker 4: He was googling something about that. He was googling, you know, 658 00:38:57,280 --> 00:38:59,640 Speaker 4: the things that were going wrong with his car as well. 659 00:38:59,719 --> 00:39:02,800 Speaker 5: But it just it's hard to put the pieces together 660 00:39:03,400 --> 00:39:06,479 Speaker 5: because we just don't know it. And you know, Evan 661 00:39:06,600 --> 00:39:09,279 Speaker 5: is working very hard because he's trying to fit all 662 00:39:09,320 --> 00:39:10,080 Speaker 5: the pieces together. 663 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,280 Speaker 4: Follow this map that he has created. 664 00:39:12,640 --> 00:39:17,720 Speaker 1: So Evans Short joining us from Missing in America Network, Evan, 665 00:39:18,040 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 1: explain what Randy just told us, that you have the 666 00:39:20,719 --> 00:39:24,320 Speaker 1: coordinates of where he was doing the searches regarding the 667 00:39:24,400 --> 00:39:25,160 Speaker 1: car not working. 668 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:29,400 Speaker 6: Yeah, we have the coordinates of in the timeline of 669 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:34,319 Speaker 6: where he was at searching on the sixth of where 670 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,839 Speaker 6: his two thousand and six Tucson clicking when I turned 671 00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 6: the pia along turned over. And then also that was 672 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:43,879 Speaker 6: earlier in the day, and then later in the day, 673 00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:47,480 Speaker 6: right around at the same time that they were text 674 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:52,680 Speaker 6: messaging care of the sister, he was searching the same thing. 675 00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,879 Speaker 6: And also on the seventh, so that on the sixth 676 00:39:55,960 --> 00:39:59,160 Speaker 6: we have the GPS coordinates which was off of Green 677 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:05,000 Speaker 6: Garland and Perry Road, just the Social sleep and then 678 00:40:05,200 --> 00:40:08,000 Speaker 6: on the seventh when he searched it. Unfortunately we didn't 679 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:10,000 Speaker 6: capture the GPS coordinates of that location. 680 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:15,960 Speaker 1: Joining us the founder of Missing an America Network, Wanda Decare. Heina, 681 00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,920 Speaker 1: you guys have managed to find a lot of missing 682 00:40:18,960 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: people without the benefit of Google coordinates like you've got 683 00:40:23,120 --> 00:40:27,000 Speaker 1: in this case. So what is making this case of Matthew, 684 00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,120 Speaker 1: what's making it so hard to solve. 685 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:36,160 Speaker 7: Because we can't find the car. We can't locate it. 686 00:40:36,239 --> 00:40:38,200 Speaker 7: We've been out there with the drones. We've been we've 687 00:40:38,239 --> 00:40:41,360 Speaker 7: had people in the area looking. It's not a highly 688 00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:46,000 Speaker 7: populated area, and we have to just reach everybody that's 689 00:40:46,040 --> 00:40:48,040 Speaker 7: out there so they're on the lookout for that vehicle. 690 00:40:48,120 --> 00:40:51,480 Speaker 7: Because once we find the vehicle, that's gonna answer a 691 00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:52,240 Speaker 7: lot of questions. 692 00:40:53,080 --> 00:40:57,960 Speaker 1: Matthew Mangina, former felony prosecutor, now civil attorney and author. Mangino, 693 00:40:58,080 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 1: these coordinates are pretty exact. 694 00:41:01,880 --> 00:41:06,319 Speaker 2: Well, they are Nancy, and it would give you an opportunity, 695 00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,279 Speaker 2: I would assume, to at least reach out to the 696 00:41:09,400 --> 00:41:13,239 Speaker 2: community or people in the area who may have seen 697 00:41:13,480 --> 00:41:17,279 Speaker 2: a vehicle broken down alongside the road, may have seen 698 00:41:17,360 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 2: someone working on a vehicle, may have seen this vehicle 699 00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:22,960 Speaker 2: for an extended period of time sitting there. You know, 700 00:41:23,400 --> 00:41:26,880 Speaker 2: that seems to be more kind of the gum shoe 701 00:41:27,040 --> 00:41:29,600 Speaker 2: work that a police department would have to do and 702 00:41:29,719 --> 00:41:33,759 Speaker 2: looking for a missing person. I mean, these things, just 703 00:41:34,239 --> 00:41:36,800 Speaker 2: what we know just doesn't seem to add up. You know, 704 00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 2: being in the flagstaff, you know, doubling back, you know, 705 00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,440 Speaker 2: having a car broke down and then just vanishing the 706 00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:49,840 Speaker 2: person Spencer and his vehicle. There's a lot we don't know, 707 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,040 Speaker 2: and we have to try to connect those dogs if 708 00:41:52,040 --> 00:41:52,719 Speaker 2: we're ever going to. 709 00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,840 Speaker 1: Find You're right, man, Gina. Doctor John Delatorre, forensic psychologist. 710 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:03,800 Speaker 1: Here's the thing, delatory routine evidence. I don't mean typical 711 00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:07,720 Speaker 1: routine evidence. I mean evidence off routine. He was always 712 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:10,520 Speaker 1: in touch with his sister and cousin all the time. 713 00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,080 Speaker 1: They would text or speak multiple times a day, and 714 00:42:15,160 --> 00:42:21,719 Speaker 1: then suddenly his routine changed. There's nothing good about that, No, 715 00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:22,440 Speaker 1: not at all. 716 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,359 Speaker 3: I mean he's even checking in to see how their 717 00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:27,839 Speaker 3: day was and how dinner was. And then we get 718 00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:30,920 Speaker 3: messages about him being in the deserts of New Mexico 719 00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:34,200 Speaker 3: and in cloud Craft, which is a completely different area 720 00:42:34,280 --> 00:42:35,600 Speaker 3: than where he was last seen. 721 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:37,360 Speaker 7: Right, there's just so. 722 00:42:37,600 --> 00:42:40,719 Speaker 3: Much weirdness that's going on. I think that's what's the 723 00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:45,040 Speaker 3: confusing element to it, Right, the routine that he would 724 00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,640 Speaker 3: normally just kind of check in even if he found it, 725 00:42:48,040 --> 00:42:50,279 Speaker 3: he would find a way to get a message out. 726 00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:53,759 Speaker 3: I think that's the key that the family is going through, 727 00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:55,480 Speaker 3: is that he would find a way to get a 728 00:42:55,560 --> 00:42:58,239 Speaker 3: message to them, but he hasn't yet, and that's what's 729 00:42:58,280 --> 00:43:03,200 Speaker 3: sparking the fear and the anxiety of the worst thoughts 730 00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:05,640 Speaker 3: that they could have to happen to their family member. 731 00:43:06,160 --> 00:43:08,680 Speaker 1: That photo that we're showing of him with a big 732 00:43:08,719 --> 00:43:13,279 Speaker 1: smile and the flower behind his ear, This guy such 733 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:19,000 Speaker 1: a happy, happy spirit, just loved his family, loved the 734 00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,520 Speaker 1: world around him, headed to a new job and a 735 00:43:21,640 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: new home in Texas and then just suddenly vanishes. Uh huh, 736 00:43:26,239 --> 00:43:29,279 Speaker 1: it didn't happen like that. Even if he vanished, what 737 00:43:29,480 --> 00:43:35,000 Speaker 1: about his car straight back out to sister and cousin. 738 00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:39,320 Speaker 4: It's hard to put the pieces together because we just 739 00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:40,040 Speaker 4: don't know it. 740 00:43:40,200 --> 00:43:43,239 Speaker 5: And you know, Evan is working very hard because he's 741 00:43:43,320 --> 00:43:45,879 Speaker 5: trying to fit all the pieces together. Follow this map 742 00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,520 Speaker 5: that he has created, and you know, he stops in 743 00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:50,760 Speaker 5: these places, like one of the places that he stopped 744 00:43:50,800 --> 00:43:54,960 Speaker 5: in there was actually like a little makeshift tpee kind 745 00:43:55,040 --> 00:43:56,719 Speaker 5: of thing with a little fire pit. 746 00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 4: But we don't know if maybe Matthew just stumbled upon 747 00:43:59,760 --> 00:44:02,719 Speaker 4: that or if he made it. And in one of 748 00:44:02,760 --> 00:44:05,120 Speaker 4: the other places the coordinates thatid he got there was 749 00:44:05,239 --> 00:44:06,040 Speaker 4: just nothing there. 750 00:44:06,160 --> 00:44:09,000 Speaker 5: It didn't look like anybody had been there, so it 751 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,680 Speaker 5: just the unknown is what's crazy about it. 752 00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:17,680 Speaker 1: I'll say, what was the content of the search? What 753 00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:18,400 Speaker 1: was he saying? 754 00:44:18,480 --> 00:44:18,719 Speaker 10: Again? 755 00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:22,920 Speaker 5: It was well, the things that we had sent you, 756 00:44:23,080 --> 00:44:26,000 Speaker 5: like the turning over his car wouldn't turnover, things like that. 757 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:30,120 Speaker 5: But he was also searching for the Dogtown Reservoir, the 758 00:44:30,760 --> 00:44:34,120 Speaker 5: Shoals Lake, and then he was also googling something about 759 00:44:35,200 --> 00:44:38,560 Speaker 5: an excavator. Just regular things. He was on his phont 760 00:44:38,680 --> 00:44:42,960 Speaker 5: like the camera part of his phone taking pictures. I 761 00:44:43,160 --> 00:44:46,480 Speaker 5: think he was on TikTok on Instagram. So he was 762 00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:47,880 Speaker 5: just doing normal things. 763 00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:52,800 Speaker 1: And the last time you have evidence of him is 764 00:44:53,239 --> 00:44:58,360 Speaker 1: August six, correct, yes, ma'am. What is your message to 765 00:44:58,600 --> 00:44:59,600 Speaker 1: him tonight? 766 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:03,719 Speaker 5: And that we love you and if he ever does 767 00:45:03,800 --> 00:45:05,800 Speaker 5: see this, we just want you to come home. We 768 00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:08,120 Speaker 5: want to bring you home in any way that we can. 769 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:10,560 Speaker 5: I don't know what's happened. 770 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,960 Speaker 4: But I just know that everybody loves you and we 771 00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 4: miss you and we just want you to come home. 772 00:45:16,840 --> 00:45:20,360 Speaker 1: Kara Spencer, what is your message to your twin brother tonight? 773 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:24,160 Speaker 10: I just hope that you're safe out there wherever you are, 774 00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:26,640 Speaker 10: and happy birthday. 775 00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:30,480 Speaker 1: What is your birthday going to be like? This year 776 00:45:30,560 --> 00:45:31,320 Speaker 1: without him. 777 00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:33,279 Speaker 2: Very hard. 778 00:45:34,719 --> 00:45:36,600 Speaker 1: Do you believe he would get in touch with you 779 00:45:36,840 --> 00:45:37,520 Speaker 1: if he could. 780 00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:42,080 Speaker 10: Yes, we lost our mom about eleven years ago, so 781 00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:44,240 Speaker 10: we were We've been very close. 782 00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:51,360 Speaker 1: Please look at the photo of Matthew. Look at Matthew. 783 00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:55,560 Speaker 1: If you know or think you know anything about Matthew's 784 00:45:55,600 --> 00:45:59,960 Speaker 1: whereabouts or if you think you saw his vehicle, please 785 00:46:00,480 --> 00:46:03,919 Speaker 1: dial nine two eight seven seven four one four one 786 00:46:04,040 --> 00:46:08,160 Speaker 1: four repeat nine two eight seven seven four one four 787 00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:14,000 Speaker 1: one four. I want to thank the Missing in America 788 00:46:14,200 --> 00:46:18,360 Speaker 1: Network tonight to them being on with us, also for 789 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:22,800 Speaker 1: all the work they do every day, every night trying 790 00:46:22,840 --> 00:46:27,120 Speaker 1: to bring missing people home to their families. Now we 791 00:46:27,280 --> 00:46:32,640 Speaker 1: remember an American hero, Deputy Sheriff Jacob Sovereign Richardon County Sheriffs, 792 00:46:32,880 --> 00:46:37,080 Speaker 1: South Carolina, killed in the line of duty, leaving behind 793 00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:43,720 Speaker 1: a grieving sister. Ali American hero Deputy Sheriff Jacob Sovereign 794 00:46:44,800 --> 00:46:47,759 Speaker 1: Nancy Gray signing off good bye friend.