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Speaker 1: Welcome to woke f with me Danielle Moody. Over the

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Speaker 1: next four weeks, I will be showcasing a series of

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Speaker 1: artists whose work is being showcased this summer as part

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Speaker 1: of the Open Call program at the Shed Creative Spaces

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Speaker 1: in New York City. Admission is free, but I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of you out there aren't in New York,

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Speaker 1: so I wanted to bring some of these creative voices

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Speaker 1: straight to you to share their artistry and perspective. Last

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Speaker 1: week on woke a f Daily, which you can hear

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Speaker 1: five days a week by supporting me at Patreon dot

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Speaker 1: com slash woke AF, I was joined by the first

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Speaker 1: in this series of artists, Aisha Amen, director of the

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Speaker 1: film Friday, which she has transformed into a living exhibition

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Speaker 1: called the Earth has Been Made a Place of Prayer.

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Speaker 1: In our half hour conversation about the how and why

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Speaker 1: behind the making of her documentary film, how Muslim and

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Speaker 1: non Muslim audiences have received the film, and why she

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Speaker 1: feels filmmakers who are people of color end up being politicized,

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Speaker 1: despite how personal or a political their work may be. Folks,

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Speaker 1: I am so excited to welcome to Woke a F

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Speaker 1: for the very first time, hopefully not the last time.

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Speaker 1: Often I talk about art, the power of art and

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Speaker 1: artists to shift and change hearts and minds, and I'm

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Speaker 1: really happy to bring Aisha a Mean, a Muslim filmmaker,

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Speaker 1: native New Yorker who is doing extraordinary work to transform

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Speaker 1: or transition our idea of the Muslim community of prayer

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Speaker 1: of mosques, because in America, frankly, we have been indoctrinated

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Speaker 1: into believing that there is something nefarious about about Islam,

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Speaker 1: about the culture and community. Aisha, talk to me about

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Speaker 1: how you have used your medium of filmmaking to open

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Speaker 1: up conversation about Islam. Yeah, thank you, Daniel. I'm very

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Speaker 1: excited to be here. It's a good question and I

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Speaker 1: have sort of a loaded to answer. Please. We love

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Speaker 1: them here on WIKA. Yeah great. I'll start by saying

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Speaker 1: that you know, as whether you're a filmmaker or you know,

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Speaker 1: any kind of visual artist, and you create work that

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Speaker 1: is personal and you also happen to be a person

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Speaker 1: of color. Somehow that work is always received as being political,

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Speaker 1: like it's politicized no matter what it is, even if

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Speaker 1: it's something that's so personal in your life and very

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Speaker 1: unique it's still politicized. So I realized that at a

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Speaker 1: very young age, you know. I started filmmaking when I

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, twenty twenty one, and I was

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Speaker 1: just drawn on to this environment of being in you know,

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Speaker 1: New York City, growing up in the city, being Muslim,

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Speaker 1: but not even thinking twice about being Muslim because everyone

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Speaker 1: in the city is uniquely themselves and I didn't outright

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Speaker 1: face any discrimination in my own city. It was just

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Speaker 1: like on the television, in the mainstream views that I

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Speaker 1: felt that. And when I started creating films that happened

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Speaker 1: to be about my experience as a Muslim, they were

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Speaker 1: received and they were politicized, and I was like only

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Speaker 1: kind of pigeonholed as a Muslim American filmmaker instead of

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Speaker 1: just a filmmaker. So I always think to myself, like,

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Speaker 1: and this goes with like other artists as well, and

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Speaker 1: like black filmmakers who make personal films and they only

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Speaker 1: end up getting hired to make black films, or me

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Speaker 1: getting hired to only make films about the Muslim experience.

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Speaker 1: This is sort of a roundabout way of answering your question.

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Speaker 1: But I feel like it's a very it's a complicated

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Speaker 1: industry to work in, and I don't make films just

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Speaker 1: about Islam, but I do. I am Muslim, and I

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Speaker 1: make personal films, and they also happen to be something

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Speaker 1: that people watch and consume and learn that about the religion.

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Speaker 1: So with this particular film that I'm showing at this exhibition,

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Speaker 1: it's called Friday and it's about it's about a very

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Speaker 1: historic mosque in New York City, and you know, growing

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Speaker 1: up in the city, and you know, in New York,

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Speaker 1: but also just as a young person, you go to

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Speaker 1: mosques every Friday, and it was just a part of

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Speaker 1: my life, Like my brothers and my dad would go

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Speaker 1: to the mosque, especially on Eve, which is like a

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Speaker 1: Muslim holiday, and it's just a very normal thing. And

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to make a film about that because

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Speaker 1: I wanted to be around that community again because I

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Speaker 1: had been missing it so much. And the way that

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Speaker 1: it was received by the public was so gratifying, because

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Speaker 1: people came to me and they said they were learning

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Speaker 1: something new. They had never known what an inside of

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Speaker 1: a mosque looked like or if they were welcome in one.

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Speaker 1: So something that was personal ended up being something that

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Speaker 1: ended up being slightly political, but also like an educational

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Speaker 1: experience for the audience. So that's kind of how I

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Speaker 1: came about making it. What were you for you? It

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Speaker 1: sounds like you wanted just to express and show a

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Speaker 1: part of your upbringing. Right, you mentioned your dad and

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Speaker 1: your brother and the experiences that you've had attending mosque.

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Speaker 1: What do you think or what have you heard of

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Speaker 1: as some of the biggest misconceptions about just the structure

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Speaker 1: in and of itself, let alone the prayers and what

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Speaker 1: happens on the inside, but just inherently in America it

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Speaker 1: is very politicized, just you know, and and around the

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Speaker 1: world just a couple of years ago in New Zealand

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Speaker 1: mass shooting, right that took the lives of so many people,

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Speaker 1: and that took place in a mosque unfortunately. So what

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Speaker 1: is what did you think about in terms of the

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Speaker 1: structure in and of itself that you wanted to open

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Speaker 1: up with regard to the misconceptions that you think have

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Speaker 1: been placed on your community. Yeah, absolutely, Well, Look, I

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Speaker 1: didn't grow up surrounded by other Muslims apart from my family,

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Speaker 1: Like I have very few friends who are also a Muslim,

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Speaker 1: and I knew you know, post nine to eleven, that

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Speaker 1: there was an understanding that this Slam was dangerous, mostly

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Speaker 1: because there was an ignorance around it and people didn't

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Speaker 1: take the time to understand what the religion was. It

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Speaker 1: was just like wholeheartedly deemed as like dangerous and suspicious,

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Speaker 1: and people who were part of it were also suspicious.

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Speaker 1: And you had to look a certain way or act

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Speaker 1: a certain way to be Muslim, and you know, I'm not.

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Speaker 1: I don't present as being Muslim, like I don't wear

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Speaker 1: a headscarf. I would have to tell people my name

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Speaker 1: and they would have to understand that it has like

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Speaker 1: an Arabic origin for them to understand that I am

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Speaker 1: a Muslim American. So I'm navigating the world in this

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Speaker 1: way where I don't outwardly look Muslim, but I am.

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Speaker 1: And it's a huge part of my life. My friends aren't,

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Speaker 1: but my family is. And for the larger part of

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Speaker 1: my life, I just didn't outwardly tell anyone I was

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Speaker 1: because there was obviously a fear that, you know, fear

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Speaker 1: of judgment. That's just what postal Post nine eleven New

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Speaker 1: York and America, and honestly, like the Western world was

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Speaker 1: and it's it's still that way. So with this film,

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Speaker 1: it was really and I did end up making it

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Speaker 1: right after New Zealand, which was so heartbreaking. It was

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Speaker 1: sort of it was a way to sort of bring

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Speaker 1: the viewer completely objectively inside of a mosque into a

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Speaker 1: place that they would have otherwise never stepped inside of,

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Speaker 1: a place that they think is totally closed off to them.

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Speaker 1: Just it's it's an opportunity for them to enter it

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Speaker 1: visually from their computer screen or wherever they're watching the film,

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Speaker 1: and to actually destigmatize what happens in mosques. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's just prayer. It's a place for people to come

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Speaker 1: and commune. It's a place for people to meet each

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Speaker 1: other once a week. It's a very emotional experience. It's

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Speaker 1: spiritual experience. For some people it's an hour every Friday

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Speaker 1: or they do it, and it's really it's all about

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Speaker 1: community gathering. And that's really what I wanted to show

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Speaker 1: in a totally objective way, you know, with no ulterior motive.

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Speaker 1: It was just to bring the camera into the space,

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Speaker 1: to have the viewer experience it and then have them leave.

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Speaker 1: And that I felt I could do that the best

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Speaker 1: with a camera and with the medium of filming. You

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Speaker 1: mentioned that it has become sort of an educational an

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Speaker 1: educational tool. I guess I will say, for for lack

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Speaker 1: of a better term, what has been some of the

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Speaker 1: most surprising things that people have said after after watching?

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Speaker 1: And I'm assuming that for for folks that are talking

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Speaker 1: to you about it, that this may have been their

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Speaker 1: first experience going inside of a mosque without physically m

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Speaker 1: going in totally. Um So, the mosque that I filmed

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Speaker 1: in is called Musta Takwa and it is located in

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Speaker 1: sort of the center of Bedstye, which is, you know,

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Speaker 1: a really old and just culturally incredible neighborhood in Brooklyn,

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Speaker 1: but that is also being quickly gentrified. So you have

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Speaker 1: folks from all overcoming. You live in Bedstye, um recent graduates,

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Speaker 1: You have these new developments coming in. You have a

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Speaker 1: coffee shop where you can get a latte for eight dollars,

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Speaker 1: but around the corner you have institutions that have been

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Speaker 1: there forever. So it's you know, really really diverse in

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Speaker 1: that way. And I've had, you know, younger millennials really

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Speaker 1: like tell me that they've seen the film, whether it

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Speaker 1: be you know, online or at a festival, and they've

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Speaker 1: told me that they've always wondered what that sound was

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Speaker 1: that they heard every Friday afternoon, and after watching my film,

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Speaker 1: they finally understood it. Like Friday afternoon, they could be

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Speaker 1: on their way to a friend's house, they could be

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Speaker 1: getting a coffee, but they hear the call to prayer

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Speaker 1: which comes from the mosque and stretches, you know, for

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Speaker 1: several months because it's so loud. There are speakers on

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Speaker 1: the building, and there are all these people that are

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Speaker 1: listening to the call to prayer and not understanding what

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Speaker 1: it is. And then after watching my film, understanding the

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Speaker 1: purpose of it and the meaning of it. And I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, that's the most gratifying thing as a filmmaker

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Speaker 1: and as an artist is having some and understand like

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Speaker 1: the spiritual significance of the sound. Because I was able

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Speaker 1: to teach them that through filmmaking. So that was something

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Speaker 1: that that I always get is, oh, the call to prayer,

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Speaker 1: Like that's what that is. I get that now. It's great.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's funny. I remember the first time that

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Speaker 1: I did hear a call to a call to prayer,

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Speaker 1: and I thought that it was such like a beautiful sound,

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Speaker 1: like it was just like just the repetitive nature of it,

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Speaker 1: how it like kind of floats through the air. To

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Speaker 1: me was just um, something so beautiful and I and

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Speaker 1: I and I have I have not um ventured inside

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Speaker 1: of a mosque. I've always viewed from the outside, just

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Speaker 1: the gorgeous architecture, the stunning art um that I for.

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Speaker 1: For me, it's like the art of it. I'm just like,

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Speaker 1: oh my god, this is this is absolutely beautiful and

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Speaker 1: would love to travel and see it. What is the

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Speaker 1: What is the reception that you receive as a young

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Speaker 1: woman Muslim filmmaker from the Muslim community. It's been varied.

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Speaker 1: I think the best way I can describe it is

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Speaker 1: by telling you the story of how I finally got

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Speaker 1: the permission to film inside the mosque as a woman.

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Speaker 1: I will say least I want to know that story.

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Speaker 1: It's it's really funny. I think. Um. You know, as

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Speaker 1: a filmmaker, but especially in documentary filmmaking, you have it's

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Speaker 1: you have to follow the ethical code and you have

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Speaker 1: to respect the people that you're filmmaking and if you're not,

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Speaker 1: you're doing it the wrong way. And that's just something

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Speaker 1: that I have to put out there. You're doing it

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Speaker 1: unethically and I knew that going in, and you know,

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Speaker 1: I said, Okay, this is my community, Like I feel

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Speaker 1: a little bit more comfortable doing this. And I would

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Speaker 1: go to Mushatakua and I would ask to speak with

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Speaker 1: the head of security. I would ask to speak with

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Speaker 1: the head of the mosque, and they just didn't trust

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Speaker 1: me at first. They just didn't trust me bringing a

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Speaker 1: camera into the space and letting their congregants be vulnerable

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Speaker 1: to media because they've had bad experiences before. They're living

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Speaker 1: in post nine eleven America, and they don't know what

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Speaker 1: my intention was, even if I was Muslim, Like, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't matter, I was going to say, because does it?

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Speaker 1: I was going to say it did it not matter?

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Speaker 1: It didn't matter at first. No, it did not matter

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Speaker 1: at first because I wasn't part of their community. You know,

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Speaker 1: it's such a vast religion and there are little pockets

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Speaker 1: within it of communities in New York, and I was

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Speaker 1: a part of theirs, and I was a stranger coming

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Speaker 1: into their space. So I had to gain their trust

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Speaker 1: over time. Every Friday I would go and spend the

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Speaker 1: day there. I would sit with the head of security.

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Speaker 1: I would explain to him what I'm doing. I would

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Speaker 1: call him all the time. I built this web of

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Speaker 1: trust with him because I wanted him to like me. Honestly,

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Speaker 1: First of all, I wanted him to like me, and

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Speaker 1: also I wanted him to be comfortable with a camera

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Speaker 1: being in his space, and I wanted everyone there to

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Speaker 1: be okay with it. So I just spent a lot

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Speaker 1: of time there and then eventually, you know, it took

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Speaker 1: a lot of work, but they trusted me, and the

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Speaker 1: reception has been, you know, ever since releasing if I'm publicly,

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Speaker 1: the reception has been just amazing. Nobody cares that I'm

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Speaker 1: a woman who made it. Nobody really. I mean, it's

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Speaker 1: important that I am a Muslim and I was able

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Speaker 1: to represent my community in this way. People, especially Muslims,

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Speaker 1: have been thanking me for it. They've been congratulating me

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Speaker 1: on it. They've been saying things like this is much needed,

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Speaker 1: and I'm glad that this exists because I didn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: make it for them, but I made it for people

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Speaker 1: that have never been inside of a mosque before. So

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Speaker 1: they were thanking me for educating the public in that way.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you probably gave folks something that they can

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Speaker 1: use right. It's it's not like we are. We are

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Speaker 1: a visual an attack time people, right, So there's only

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Speaker 1: so much that kind of goes in one ear and

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Speaker 1: out the other. But you've given them something to explore, right, Um.

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Speaker 1: And I'm curious, did the head of security did he watch? Yes?

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Speaker 1: What was what was after building all of this trust,

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Speaker 1: what was his reaction to what he saw? I wish

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Speaker 1: it was more. I wish I could have built up

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Speaker 1: to like him having an incredible response like you mean,

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Speaker 1: he didn't have an aha momment and not have an

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Speaker 1: aha moment. Shockingly, he just said, oh, I shure, that's nice.

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Speaker 1: That's nice. That's nice that you did. But that's good. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but that's good about it. Um. He was positive about it.

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Speaker 1: And I think you know it wasn't that interesting to

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Speaker 1: him because he said, this is my life and you

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Speaker 1: just recorded it, right, you know the experiences every day,

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Speaker 1: this is my life and you recorded it. So that's great. Um.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I think you know he was happy with it.

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Speaker 1: And that's all like, because if he wasn't, and if

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Speaker 1: there are other people part of the Moss of the

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Speaker 1: Mustard community that didn't like it, then I would have

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Speaker 1: like a problem releasing it publicly because I wasn't accurately

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Speaker 1: representing them, so I got the okay and after that

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Speaker 1: it was like smooth sailing. I love documentary filmmaking for

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Speaker 1: that reason because it's so exploratory in a way that

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Speaker 1: doesn't seem I can't think of who can't think of

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Speaker 1: the word that I'm trying to that I'm trying to

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Speaker 1: grab for right now. But it's exploration without invasiveness, that's

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Speaker 1: really what And I think that that's what documentary filmmaking

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Speaker 1: offers for us, to be able to travel and transport

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Speaker 1: ourselves to a place without feeling like we are colonizers. Absolutely,

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Speaker 1: and that's why it's important to have filmmakers from those

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Speaker 1: communities that they're filming, because they really understand what they're

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Speaker 1: filming and how to treat it with respect. And I

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Speaker 1: always think, you know, when has the Muslim community ever

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Speaker 1: been portray trade on a camera positively and beautifully? There's

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Speaker 1: always it's always politicized, and it's always traumatizing. It's like,

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Speaker 1: I'm always hearing about my community horrible things about it,

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Speaker 1: whether they're debating whether you should wear the headscarf or not,

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Speaker 1: or whether they're debating you know, if this person is

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Speaker 1: a terrorist or not. It's there's always these connotations. And

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Speaker 1: I had never seen anything that was just positive and

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Speaker 1: beautiful and wonderful, and I thought, I'm going to do that,

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Speaker 1: Like I'm going to make that film that shows people

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Speaker 1: that Friday prayer is an absolutely wonderful and beautiful and

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Speaker 1: spiritual and peaceful experience for millions of people in this country.

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Speaker 1: And you should know what it is, and you shouldn't

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Speaker 1: watch mainstream media and consume only these like trigger words,

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Speaker 1: yeah it's a Muslim community. Instead, you should watch my film. Yes,

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Speaker 1: just move promo over myself, but like, you should watch

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Speaker 1: my film and understand, Oh, this is what a daily

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Speaker 1: life and like, this is what a day in the

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Speaker 1: life of a Muslim New Yorker is actually like on

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Speaker 1: a Friday, and it's so incredibly interesting. And the same

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Speaker 1: goes with cinema in general, whether it be cinema made

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Speaker 1: by the gay community or the black community, Like when

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Speaker 1: have we ever heard of stories that are just beautiful

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Speaker 1: and should be told and are not traumatizing and not

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Speaker 1: feeding into these stereotypes that just exists to show the

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Speaker 1: absolute joy of these communities and how wonderful they are

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Speaker 1: and the positives you hardly see it, I have to

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Speaker 1: say because it doesn't sell as well. I was just

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Speaker 1: going to say because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 1: it is about the monetization of pain and trauma, and

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Speaker 1: there is seems to be in an appetite that never

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Speaker 1: ceases and is particularly in America for the trauma and

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Speaker 1: the pain of black and brown people and marginalized communities.

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Speaker 1: And that is what they will pay for, and that

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Speaker 1: is what they want to see. But when you do

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Speaker 1: something which shouldn't be radical, right, but what you've done,

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Speaker 1: you know is radical because I'm going to show beauty

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Speaker 1: and I'm not going to politicize that beauty. I'm going

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Speaker 1: to show peace. I'm not going to politicize that piece.

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Speaker 1: I'm just going to bring you into this space. How

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Speaker 1: you interpreted and what you how you internalize, that is

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Speaker 1: going to be left to you. But like, here's what

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Speaker 1: I'm allowing you to pull back this curtain and see

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Speaker 1: for yourself, not it filtered through how other people want

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Speaker 1: you to see it and how they want you to

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Speaker 1: interpret it. And that is that is capital that's capitalistic, right,

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Speaker 1: Like I you know, everybody needs to make money. Artists

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Speaker 1: especially need to you know, need to make money. But

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Speaker 1: it's the how, um that I think is incredibly important. Um,

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Speaker 1: I should tell people where they can see your film,

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Speaker 1: how they can access you, how they can follow you,

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Speaker 1: because everyone needs to. Well, thank you very much. So

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Speaker 1: the film Friday is currently a Vimeo staff pick, so

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Speaker 1: it's online available to watch free on your computer, and

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Speaker 1: it's also going to be turned into a multi channel

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Speaker 1: video installation where I'm essentially reconstructing and building like a

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Speaker 1: mobile mosque in a gallery space with prayer mats and

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Speaker 1: with the film on like several screens, so you can

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Speaker 1: walk into the gallery space and you can experience what

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Speaker 1: it's like to be in a real mosque, except you're

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Speaker 1: in a museum. That museum is called the Shed and

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Speaker 1: it's in Hudson Yards in New York. It's part of

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Speaker 1: the Open Call program and it's starting June third, and

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Speaker 1: it's going to run through the summer, and it is

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Speaker 1: free and available to the public, which is my favorite

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Speaker 1: part about it is that it's super accessible for people

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Speaker 1: to come and see. Yeah, So the film is being

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Speaker 1: turned into an instation and that's where you can experience

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Speaker 1: it in three D or you can experience it digitally

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Speaker 1: on your computer online. In my half hour conversation with Ishaman,

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Speaker 1: we also got into talking about the role artists and

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Speaker 1: creators play in society, and she even asked me about

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Speaker 1: my own perspective as a creator, a question I can

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Speaker 1: say I have never been asked before on my own podcast.

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Speaker 1: To hear our entire discussion, head over to patreon dot

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Speaker 1: com slash woke f and join woke f Nation, where

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Speaker 1: you'll get hundreds of past shows and five brand new

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Speaker 1: full length shows every single week. I'm excited to share

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Speaker 1: the rest of my conversations with these incredible up and

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Speaker 1: coming artists, the next of which is already up on Patreon.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Sayan, have an incredible week, and until next time,

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Speaker 1: Power to the people and to all the people. Power,

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Speaker 1: get woke and stay woke as fuck.